← The Currently Reading Podcast
Loading summary
Transcript315 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:11]
B
Welcome to the currently reading podcast. We are bookish best friends who spend time every week talking about the books that we've read recently. And as you know, we won't shy away from having strong opinions. So get ready.
- [00:24]
A
Today especially, we are usually light on the chit chat, heavy on the book talk, and our conversations will always be spoiler free. Today we have a very special episode for you.
- [00:34]
B
I'm Meredith Monday Schwartz. I'm both a mom and a Mimi and a full time CEO living in Austin, Texas. And people with strong opinions are my very favorite people.
- [00:44]
A
And I'm Katie Cobb, a homeschooling mama for living in Arizona. And strong bookish opinions give me life. This is episode number 49 of season eight and we are so glad you're here.
- [00:55]
C
Yeah.
- [00:56]
B
And I think they can tell Katie what our episode might be about today. You think?
- [01:01]
A
Well, I don't think they know the secret sauce yet. Meredith, I'm so excited about this episode, especially because if you're watching on YouTube, you probably already know. We have all five of our bookish friend hosts here together today and we have a little game to play together.
- [01:17]
B
It is so fun to be all five of us for the first time. Elizabeth, of course, you are joining us for this group show for the very first time. Roxanna and Mary, it is always our favorite time to have you with us. So all five of us and Katie, you had a fantastic idea for a game that we could play today. And we kind of went out and got some help from some of our bookish friends too.
- [01:42]
A
We did. We came up with a new game. Y' all have heard us cycle through a number of iterations of the group show over the years. This year we are playing consensus or chaos. What this involves is we went to our bookish friends and I asked them give us your strong bookish opinions, not about a specific book, but about the reading life in general. And do not hold back, y'. All. They did not hold back.
- [02:06]
B
They did not.
- [02:07]
A
There were so many opinions. They were liking each other's comments. Mary was in the comments, like, y', all, like, you are just off the rails here. It was so fun. And so we have collated them all together today and we will now make a ruling. We're going to judge these opinions each of us has. Especially if you're watching, we did this special for you. We have scoring cards just like you see with the judges in the Olympics. So one of us will read an opinion and then we're all going to score it. Any outliers have to defend their choice. I'm so excited.
- [02:38]
C
All right.
- [02:39]
B
And Katie, remind us. So it's one through five. One is we strongly agree.
- [02:44]
A
One is vehemently disagree. I hate this opinion. Okay.
- [02:48]
B
It's a one star opinion.
- [02:50]
A
Yes, five is a five star opinion. I love this. I co sign it. It's my ride or die. Mostly. We're not going to have any threes, guys. We are here for strong opinions and we want to vehemently agree or vehemently disagree with them. I can't wait to get started. Let's make sure for the audio though, that everybody recognizes everybody else's voice. So I'm Katie and you already heard Meredith talking. Roxanna, can you say hi to everybod for us?
- [03:14]
C
Hi, everyone. I'm Roxanna. I'm so happy to be here. I have some very strong opinions today.
- [03:20]
A
All right. And then Mary is going to chime in for us from Wisconsin.
- [03:24]
D
Hi, everybody. It's Mary. I'm so excited to have these conversations with my bookish besties.
- [03:30]
A
Now, of course, you all know Elizabeth because she has been around lately to share her opinions with us. Elizabeth, say hi.
- [03:36]
E
Hi, everybody. I'm so happy to be invited to the party. I think I've been watching these videos since the COVID day, so I can't believe I was invited to the party. And I have lots of strong, strong opinions as well.
- [03:49]
B
I love it. This is going to be such a good conversation. And the man, the topics that we got from the group, there were some hot, hot, spicy hot takes.
- [03:59]
A
Yeah. Some of them had my jaw on the floor. Okay, let's go ahead and get started. We are learning as we go. So let's see what happens here. Based on the way people look on my screen, which is has no relevance to anybody else, I'm going to ask Roxanna to start us out with her very first opinion that she wants us to rule on for this consensus or chaos episode.
- [04:22]
C
Okay. You know, Katie, I'm going to go off script right at the beginning because I'm just a jerk like that and I'm creating chaos. But this is a reader comment. We just talked about that. It was like very agreed upon. So we weren't going to bring it up, but I want to. This comment is audiobook reading is just as good as paper book reading. Audiobook reading is just as good as paper book reading. So I've worded it specifically there.
- [04:51]
A
Yeah.
- [04:52]
E
Okay.
- [04:52]
C
I mean, everybody put up their.
- [04:54]
B
Audiobooks are just as much reading as reading any other kind of reading.
- [04:58]
A
Okay.
- [04:58]
B
All right, let's score it. Yeah.
- [05:00]
A
Okay, so we are all going to hold up our number, Paim, and see where we land. Uh. Oh.
- [05:06]
B
All right. I'm holding up a five.
- [05:08]
A
I. We have five across the board, except for our. Our chaos sewer herself.
- [05:14]
B
All right, Roxanna, ma', am, get into the hot seat, my friend.
- [05:18]
A
Tell us about your two.
- [05:20]
C
So it's funny because in our chat, Katie, I was like, well, we're not going to bring up ones that everybody agrees with. Like, audiobooks are just reading. And then I thought about it, and you all know everybody who listens to the show knows I listen to audiobooks. I. I love audiobooks.
- [05:34]
E
Okay.
- [05:35]
C
But as I was thinking about this, I don't think audiobook reading is as good as paper reading. Good as in. So this is how I was thinking about it. So my son Mika and my daughter Kiran are home for the summer. Kieran's a big reader. Micah is not. Mika asked me, like, they're going to have enforced reading time. Can I just listen to audiobooks? He's adhd. He takes in audio. That's great. Of course he can. That's not his reading time. So for me, I said, you have to pick up a paper book. So clearly in my head, I don't think they're the same. And then as I thought about it, I thought, you know, to me, it's not the same audio. Like, I go for walks and I can do other things. I can clean the kitchen and I can do all these other things. Right. If I am with a paper book, the focus and the attention I have to put in, the fact that I can't have another stimulus. I have to look at stationary words on a page that are not moving that make my kind of have to hold my attention. It is a different muscle, and it's a more important muscle because you can. You can multitask with audio. But that looking at a boring black and white stationary patient, keeping your eyes and then trying to make the world behind it, I think that's an important skill. So I'm training myself. I listen to audiobooks, but I'm training myself to do more paper books. And I'm telling Micah and Kieran, you have to have 30 minutes of paper reading. So I do think. I think they both count. This is not a count. I think they both count, but I do think paper book reading is better. I hear people throwing the tomatoes at me, but I think it's better than audiobook.
- [07:15]
B
Okay, but I think the. I don't think that you would Say maybe I'm wrong and Lord knows, correct me if I'm wrong. I think you would say that in how. In the ability to take in the concepts and the style and everything about the actual act of ingesting the book. You would say that audio is just as good as in print, if not maybe even better. So I think what you're saying is when you say better, you don't mean it's better in terms of the reading. You mean it's better in terms of the act of marshaling our self control and our focus. That that is what it's better at
- [07:54]
C
for attention these days. That's a good clarification. It's not that I think that and I like Mika, for example, takes in stuff better audio. I know Meredith. You do? It's not the. I think one format is better than the other. But I think these days in sustaining and building our attention, I think paper books, like visual books are better. And I think that's an important thing to instill.
- [08:19]
E
It's really good. I mean, I think if I would not want to do audio to the exclusion of reading books. Because you're right, there is a very huge lack of attention these days. And I think just sitting down with no other stimuli and to ingest a book. And I also think I was having trouble with my number five a little bit because I think a lot of genre books maybe are really, really good on audio, but the literary books and books that just are really, it's about the word to word type of content. I agree. I think it's better visually.
- [08:54]
B
All right, anyone else want to pipe in on that?
- [08:57]
A
I will add that with my kids during our homeschool days when we have drop everything in read time, I do also require that they pick up a paper book during that time. They cannot just lay on the couch and listen to an audiobook, even if that's the only thing they're doing during that time. And that is because as their homeschool teacher, I am looking to build that skill of actual like looking at letters and decoding them and turning that into meaning in our heads and focus like Roxanna mentioned. So yes, and I guess is my caveat there is that as a teacher I do make them pick up paper books, even though I also read aloud to them. And I think that when I have finished reading aloud, they can say we read that book without. Without a caveat on that. Right. So I think they count just as much. But I do think there's a different skill involved that I'm trying to pursue. When I make my kids pick up
- [09:55]
D
a paper book, something that sticks out for me here, too, is that we're focusing a lot of this conversation, and I think we're rightfully so on, like, what we're teaching our kids and, like, readers building up their reading life.
- [10:09]
C
That.
- [10:10]
D
That feels like this is a really important, like, attention and endurance skill and that we don't want them to bypass the learning of how to really read and be engaged in a physical book only for audiobooks. And y' all know I love an audiobook, right? But it's like, it's maybe different for the five of us who sit here with decades of our own reading lives and experience under our belts that, like, we weren't buil that reading life through audiobooks. And we want to make sure what we're imparting to younger generations is, like, a vast landscape of reading that's, like, rooted in the. Not the original form. Right. But maybe. And we want to have that, like, touchstone before we're really introducing all of these other ways that you can access stories and reading that I feel like. Feels like maybe a nuance point here, because I'm thinking too, of, like, yeah, I want my daughter to have all of these reading experiences, and also I want her to have the foundational touchstone piece of being able to sit down with a book for an extended period of time and, like, read the words on the page. But I also love that she loves her little yodo player and, like, listening to books, you know, it's such a both.
- [11:19]
B
And yeah, it really is. And I know, Roxanna, you. You deal with the same thing with Micah that I deal with with Jackson, and they're the exact same age. And I, at some point, I'm like, every time I say to Jackson, like, okay, you need to read, he'll always opt for audio if he can. And I'm always like, dude, but you have to know how to actually read a book. Like, I. Yeah, audio is great, but to your point, Mary. But you also have to have the foundation of actually being able to read, to sit down and read a book that has more to do with marshaling the self control and discipline of his body and his attention than it does with anything else. So I think that's a. That's a nuanced opinion, Roxanna, that I do think makes a lot of sense.
- [11:59]
C
Well, and I will say, one child of mine is an atrocious speller. One is excellent. You guess which one, right? Sure. Like, something about seeing them visually on the page. Now, Micah does tell me, listen, we have spell check. My ideas are still great. I have a great vocabulary. Like, he'll fight back. And he's a smart kid and he's right. Right. And he has many other skills. But I do think the seeing the words and being able to spell them. So, yeah, I'm not by any means saying it doesn't count, but I think there's a nuance there that I don't want kids, even reluctant readers, to lose in being able to pick up a paper book.
- [12:35]
B
A touchstone. All right, Katie, who comes next?
- [12:39]
A
All right, Mary, you are next in my random rotation, but it's going to stay the same. So, Mary, tell us your death panel opinion.
- [12:48]
D
Okay, my first one here, I've got. What do you need a bookmark for? Use a random scrap of paper, a bauble, a crisp packet. And if it's your own book, it's okay to dog ear. And I'll be curious to see where we all land with this one. Okay, ready to rate three.
- [13:05]
E
We already hear two.
- [13:07]
D
One. Ooh, Meredith, our outlier.
- [13:11]
A
So we have two fives, two fours, and as Mary said, Meredith is our outlier with a 2 right now.
- [13:17]
B
I am. I am biased, obviously. Yes, you can use almost anything as a bookmark. I have been known to use a lot of different things as bookmark. I have been known to use a Dorito as a bookmark. Like, it has happened. Not recently, but, like, when I was a kid, it happens a Dorito. But I enjoy my bookmark collection so much, and I enjoy with every print book, choosing the right bookmark for that particular book. It's what it's about, what it looks like, you know, all of that. I enjoy buying a bookmark every bookstore that I go into to add to that collection. So I think bookmarks are really, really lovely. But, yes, you can use anything to mark a page. I just don't prefer dog earring in my own books. And I wouldn't dog ear a library book.
- [14:08]
D
Never would I dog ear a library book. It's funny because I also love my bookmark collection. I got some really fun, you know, humdrum paper has, like these really cool, kind of thick, cardboardy, really fun designs. So I love a bookmark. But you know what's so funny is I used to be as a kid a vehement dog earer. And I like, dropped that as I became more like, of an adult reader and especially got into, like, talking books with people online. And it was like my secret shame that everybody's like I would never dog ear a bookmark. And here I'm like, don't look at my shelves. And recently I have been reclaiming the dog ear because sometimes I just can't find a bookmark. My bookmark has been stolen by my child. My bookmark has whatever. And so I used to especially dog ear if there was something less as a bookmark but more as something I wanted to remember. And it's like I don't always have. What are those little metal page markers. I don't always have book darts. If I book darted, everything that spoke to me, I'd run out of. I go through a pack of book. So I'm reclaiming my dog ear and enjoying my bookmark. But I am not above a receipt if need be.
- [15:20]
A
For sure.
- [15:21]
B
A hair tie.
- [15:22]
E
My God. Inventing gum wrappers.
- [15:24]
A
Oh, a gum wrapper is a good one actually. They get so nice and thin. Mine has a receipt in it right now from a bookstore.
- [15:31]
E
You start off at the front of the book and you use the front of the flap and then you get to where you can use.
- [15:36]
A
Yeah. And then you get to switch at some point and you're like, oh, I made it to the back flap.
- [15:40]
E
That's right, we're in the back 40.
- [15:42]
C
I go to Home Depot and I pick a paint chip in every color that speaks to me. I come home with like a hundred of those big paint chips and then I keep it in my bedside drawer. And as I open a new book, I pick purposely the right paint chip that coordinates. It's not the exact same color, but it's maybe the color of the title or a color of a complimentary element so it picks up. And that's not to Bookstagram. It's just like literally for me. I like the aesthetic and I used to use, you know, beautiful metal bookmarks and all. I have a whole bunch of bookmarks, but you know, some are too heavy and they fall out and some are too light and you can't find them and. Exactly. And the paint part is just the right width so it doesn't get lost or like, you know, they're too thin and then you can't, you can't find it. There it is the right width, it's the right cardstock. The color is vivid. So I could pick the matching. I have a whole. So for years now I've gone there. I'll get like one stack every two years and it lasts me cuz I reuse them. I don't throw them away and I'm done. I put them back in and then that one until it looks old or whatever.
- [16:45]
B
I don't think I ever knew that about you.
- [16:47]
C
That's my trick.
- [16:47]
B
That's an, that's.
- [16:48]
E
Yeah.
- [16:49]
B
Interesting one.
- [16:50]
C
I don't know why I came up with that. I think I'd seen like I had a stack sitting somewhere and I was
- [16:54]
E
like, hey, these would be good things.
- [16:55]
C
And then, you know, I commonplace so I don't get book tarts either, cuz I would run out of them in no time at all. So I just take sticky notes and I rip them in pieces because I'll have like 40 things. I want a commonplace for a book and I just stick those in. And then when I go to commonplace, then I pull out those random notes and just throw them away.
- [17:13]
B
Well, that's one of the things that I have to say I do a lot is use Betsy. My friend Betsy's gotten me into using post it notes. She's bought several different, like really, really pretty versions of them for me. And so oftentimes if I don't have something near to hand, so I find myself using those post it notes an awful lot, which is very convenient. But do you know that one time I'll just say this one thing and then we'll go on to the next topic. But one time, Johnny and I, more probably 20 years ago, like our, our older kids were young but we went on vacation and we got into a fight about something. I don't even remember what the fight was about, but we got into such a fight and we were going to go someplace and get coffee and we were going to read. So we were there having had our fight. We're not talking to each other yet, but we're sitting at this, at this table and Johnny, who knows how I feel about dog earring or laying a book open on the table or whatever like that I can't stand. Yeah, that drives me crazy. He's reading whatever. I don't remember what book he was reading. It was a book that we owned like it was our own book. But he's reading it and as he got done reading every page, he ripped it out and threw it on the floor.
- [18:25]
D
The page of the book?
- [18:27]
B
Yes. So he started just like he, instead of turning it, he would just rip it out and throw it out and Right. I was like, you are not seriously like. And, and then like this. So then the more I reacted, the more he, like. So then he was ripping it out and crunching it up and throwing it on the floor and then you.
- [18:47]
E
That's amazing.
- [18:49]
A
Oh, my God.
- [18:50]
E
That is incredible.
- [18:51]
C
Wow.
- [18:52]
E
I have actually ripped a book in half and taken half, and then I throw that half away, and then I start the other half.
- [19:00]
B
That's so Hulk like of you, Elizabeth. I've never.
- [19:04]
E
These guns don't lie, baby. Right?
- [19:07]
A
That's why she wears the sleeveless shirts to show off the Michelle Obama shoulders.
- [19:11]
E
Michelle Obama shoulders. That's my dream.
- [19:14]
B
But same.
- [19:15]
A
Yeah.
- [19:16]
E
It's also very, very.
- [19:17]
C
Keep ripping those books. Keep ripping those books.
- [19:20]
B
Oh, my gosh. That's hilarious. All right, Katie, who. Who comes next?
- [19:23]
A
Meredith, it's you, my dear. What is your strong opinion?
- [19:27]
B
Okay. What is my strong opinion?
- [19:30]
C
Okay.
- [19:31]
B
I mean, I got. One of my favorite things is that Lindsay Felton, our bookish friend, Lindsay Felton, she had several really hot takes. And I love being friends with Lindsay because she has hot takes in real life, and she's not afraid to express them. And it's what makes her a fascinating person. I just absolutely love her. So she had a couple, but one of them, she said, is murder mysteries should be murdery, not cutesy or cozy. Keep your bread baking out of the murder books. Love this opinion so much. All right, what do you guys think about this?
- [20:07]
A
Was it her or was it a response to that comment? That was. If there's gonna be bread in your books, it should be used to sop up the blood.
- [20:14]
B
I didn't see that.
- [20:15]
C
I didn't see that.
- [20:16]
A
Could not. I think it was somebody who responded to her, and I was crying. Laug.
- [20:21]
B
That is so good. All right, so score it. Score it, everybody. Okay, we've got two ones. We've got two fives, and we've got a two. So, Elizabeth, let's start with you. Okay, You. You agreed with this opinion.
- [20:34]
E
I do, and I think I. I agree with it because I'm. I'm trying with all things murderful to make sure they're not all serial killers. They're not all slashers. So I have tried recently to find a few more cozy mysteries. And the last one I just read was called the Chowder House Murder. And I was like, oh, this will be in Maine. This will be amazing. And it was so dumb. Sorry.
- [20:58]
A
It just clammy.
- [21:00]
E
I mean, I love. I love clam chowder. And I thought, well, this will be fun. But I just think, you know, stay in your lane. If you want to read about murder, it better just. Just make it murdery.
- [21:10]
D
I agree.
- [21:11]
C
Like, there's.
- [21:12]
E
You can have a romance with bread baking. Okay. I don't want people dying over bread, over clam chowder or anything like that. I don't want it precious. Getting murdered in a small, quaint English town. Yes, but let's leave baked goods out of it. I agree 100%.
- [21:30]
C
All right.
- [21:30]
B
Roxanna, you disagree? What? What do you think?
- [21:34]
C
Disagree. Because I have to share a funny story. When Kiran was young, she was like, saying, I'm gonna write a Christmas story. What kind of Christmas story should I write? I said, you know, you should write like a cozy. A cozy story. And she's like, what's that? I'm like, well, it's like a Christmas. You know, Christmasy things happen, but then somebody's murdered. And she's like, what? I'm like, yeah, like, it's like a Christmas festival. But then somebody dies. She's like, what? Somebody kills somebody? But you do it with those. What do you mean? It's. But they're making gingerbread and I don't understand. And I was like, yeah, I get. I guess that's weird. Like, thought about it. But I was like, yeah, I guess that's strange. You know, So I hear this opinion it. And I get how it's strange, but I just love a cozy murderer. I just do, you know, when it's bloodless and off the page. Now, it has to be well written. And I agree with you, Elizabeth. I'll say maybe 90% of them are not well written. But there is something around, like a Christmas time or something. You sit down with your, you know, my crumbling chronicles. I'll sit down with my apple crumble and I open one of those and somebody is. Yeah, like, putting on a Christmas festival. And somebody falls from. As they're hanging up the town's Christmas lights and they're, you know, dead. And then everybody has to find out who. I love it. I love it. So it's a strange concept. Yes, but I'm all for it.
- [22:53]
D
I think for me it's. And I would agree again across the board. I want it to be well done. And so generally, I don't. We all know the kind of more stereotypical what we think of when we think of cozy mysteries where there's like 78 in the series and they. All right, like, I haven't read. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That's not typically what I read when I'm reading cozy. But do you know the reason I stay away from more gory kind of slasher is as a therapist, I hear about the horrible things about the human condition all the time that I don't. When I was working in community mental health with like really hard stuff, I like had to stop watching the news and all that stuff that it's like, I need my books to not feel like my work. And sometimes the really terrible ones feel like the hardest parts of my work. And so when I really need to escape. But I also love the propulsion of a mystery. That is when I am reaching for cozier. And I think your point is, is so valid, Elizabeth. And also I'm like, personally, for me, I need my books to counteract some of the intensity of the rest of my life. And also I recognize that some of them I read. I'm like, nobody needs to know that I read this. I don't need to openly share this one. But it was nice and comforting. And it's usually like you said, Roxanna Christmas, like a cozy Christmas murder, an autumnal murder in the pumpkin patch. Like, that feels like a good foil to the rest of my life. But this is a very specific me take and I hear that.
- [24:33]
E
I know I love a sweet book. Let's just say I love a sweet book. But Precious Murder is not. I just don't think they're as well written. And that's okay. We don't have to always read, you know, Pulitzer Prize winning books.
- [24:48]
B
Well, part of it is. Part of it is a quality issue. Part of it is a quantity issue. There just have been. It's not as much anymore, but for a while there, there was just so much of it that was being put out. But I think it's part of the reason why Cozy Fantasy has really become so popular. It's because all of a sudden you had the ability to have all that coziness, that escape that you're talking about that like, I just need to read a book where I know that a serial killer is not going to be a part of the plot. Like, I just need. I need to find a safe place in my reading. And Cozy Fantasy has been a really lovely addition to the kind of shelf where you can choose from for that. Because the murder simply gave us the reason to be in the story.
- [25:32]
A
Right?
- [25:32]
B
The murder just, it's never about the murder. It's always just like, it just gives us the excuse to be there. So I find myself going to Cozy Fantasy much more than I go to Cozy Mystery now. But I do, I disagree with the opinion. Lindsay will hopefully forgive me because I just think that there's. There's gotta be something for everybody. All right, so who's next?
- [25:55]
A
Okay, I thought that Was a lovely discussion. Elizabeth, it is your turn.
- [26:00]
E
Okay. I am combining two that are about the style of books, so I'm going to read both of them and I have different opinions on both. First one, I like deckled edges. That's one of them. That's also from Lindsay. And the other one is I hate French flaps with a fiery passion. I cut them off my kids books. So the first one I liked deckled edges. Does anyone have an opinion about that?
- [26:24]
A
Wait, wait, wait.
- [26:25]
B
Let me think about this. I like deckled edges. Okay.
- [26:28]
E
Yes, yes.
- [26:29]
C
And deckled edges are those. I know I should know this, but it's like when their pages are uneven. Right in the pre ripped.
- [26:36]
A
Yeah.
- [26:37]
E
Okay. All right, are you ready? One, two. Ah.
- [26:40]
A
Oh.
- [26:40]
B
Elizabeth, you hate deckled edges.
- [26:42]
A
You hate deckled edges.
- [26:43]
E
I won't read a book if it's got freaking deckled edges because.
- [26:46]
B
And there are a lot of people that feel that way. I know that there are.
- [26:50]
E
Yeah. Yeah. I hate edge with all my heart. I will not read it. Okay, so that's that one.
- [26:56]
B
But why, Elizabeth?
- [26:58]
C
Because I can't flip. We're gonna.
- [26:59]
E
Let's rule them both. Okay, so the second one is. I hate French flaps with a fiery. So I hate French flaps.
- [27:05]
A
French flap.
- [27:06]
B
I hate French flaps.
- [27:13]
A
All right, that one had four ones and one five that Elizabeth agreed with. Hating French flaps.
- [27:18]
E
I know.
- [27:18]
B
It's like math. Do you like French flaps, Elizabeth?
- [27:22]
E
I love a French flap. I feel like.
- [27:24]
A
Okay, let's do it again. Let's do it again, read it again, and then we'll all roll again.
- [27:28]
E
Sorry, I was confused. I hate French flaps with a fiery passion. Ready? One, two, three.
- [27:36]
B
Okay, we do have a consensus ones across the board.
- [27:41]
E
I love a French flap. I feel fancy. I feel like that is like elevated paperback. And I. I love Europa is one of my favorite publishers. They have gorgeous French flaps.
- [27:55]
B
Every paperback should have a French flap.
- [27:57]
E
I agree.
- [27:58]
D
I agree.
- [27:58]
E
I'm gonna say that's my. Yeah, no. A deckled edge. I can't flip pages with flip. I have to go to the top and do this with my books, and I don't like doing that. What? I've heard people say you can't flip, that.
- [28:12]
B
They have trouble turning their pages.
- [28:14]
E
And why would you want.
- [28:15]
C
What.
- [28:16]
E
What is the purpose of a deckled edge?
- [28:19]
C
Why?
- [28:20]
E
I need to know why.
- [28:21]
B
It's fancy.
- [28:23]
E
French flaps are fancy. Deckled edges are stupid.
- [28:27]
A
Because the French are fancy. Yeah. Okay. But a lot of times these two things go together anymore. Elizabeth, does one overrule the other?
- [28:33]
E
I Will not read a deckled edge. I will pick that up on audio
- [28:38]
A
like, you're dead to me.
- [28:40]
E
Yeah, I do feel like mostly French flaps are with straight edges.
- [28:45]
A
I'm pretty sure I could find some, but.
- [28:47]
E
I'm sure you can find them. But maybe those are coast fantasy and I'm not going to read it.
- [28:51]
A
Yeah. Okay, wait. So deckled edges first came from when signatures were bound using, like, sewing and string and whatnot. And they had to be cut open every time somebody started their book. So they would, like, slide a. Not like a letter opener, but an actual knife in to the signature and then slice through, and it would make that edge on it, like, very clearly delineated for each signature. That's where the deckled edges originally came from. And I do think that that, like, classic feeling is what makes it feel fancy. Like, now they have to intentionally make that right. Like, it's not like we're all slicing our books open to get, like, some virgin story inside.
- [29:30]
D
Oh, you're not Katie.
- [29:32]
A
Just kidding. No, I've never gotten to slice my books open. I've never torn one in half either, but that's just me. But, yeah, I don't know. That's. I feel like spicy. Opinion. Okay. Oh, it's my turn. Yay. I forgot my own rules, you guys. I'm sorry. Okay. All right. I am excited about a lot of these opinions, but I noticed that there was a theme having to do with the design of books. So I'm kind of coattailing off Elizabeth here, the one that I really loved. And because I also have strong opinions about this, Zoe said, why does the author's name have to sometimes be larger than the title? I think the title should always be larger. I know they're trying to sell books, but it's super confusing when I have to hunt for the much smaller title. Okay, do we agree or disagree on this one? Knowing that they are trying to sell books.
- [30:25]
B
Ready to score?
- [30:26]
A
Let's see if Roxanna's ready. In three, two, one. Okay, we have another interesting spread. We've got a one, two twos, and two fives. So, Meredith, as our vehement disagree, this opinion can die. Tell us about it.
- [30:44]
B
Yeah, I mean, I just think it's not difficult. Yes, there's a size difference, but I'm very much aware of how they're trying to market. And the. In that case, the author is the lead, and then you just find it and you just read the title. And I just. I just think there are other bigger matters for us to be worried about. Like, if I love that author because they're super successful and I have everything that they've written, I would be much more irritated if the books were all different sizes as I collect them than I would be with the name being larger than the title. Do you see what I'm saying? I just think it's not anything to be that concerned about.
- [31:22]
A
Yes, yes. And this one does go along with kind of a theme about standardization in books, like making sure they're all the same size. And one of my favorite ones, which I've already been on this ride or die opinion for quite some time, is that series should always have a series number on the spine, so it's easy to put them in order. And I think this kind of goes along with that. Right? Like, if we as readers want to be able to quickly glance at things and figure out, oh, that series all goes together. Cause those books are all the same size and they have the same, you know, spine design or whatever. And these ones are all by the same author. So the text is the same across the board. Like, that makes my brain calm and happy. So I like the title will always be bigger than the author's name, because then you could quickly look and see. And I honestly, I would prefer that the title always be at the top and the author's name always be at the bottom. But that is another spicy opinion that probably did not have people agree with it. So. Right.
- [32:17]
B
Elizabeth, from your point of view, from a bookseller's point of view, does this come into play for you guys at all?
- [32:22]
E
I think that's why I said 2. It always makes me really happy when an author gets to a point where their name is bigger. Because I'm like, way to go. You've made it. That's one of the big signs that you have made it. And most of the time when people come in, they're like, I'd like to read the new Kristin Hannah or the new Freda McFadden. It's a lot easier with authors, I think, who are churning out a book a year to know to remember the name of the author rather than necessarily the name of the book. So I'm happy for author who have their names bigger than the title.
- [32:54]
C
Yeah.
- [32:55]
A
Okay.
- [32:55]
B
All right. Are we going back around?
- [32:57]
A
Yes.
- [32:58]
E
Let's see.
- [32:58]
A
Where are we? So it would be Roxanna's turn. So are we ready? Roxanna, what do you have for us?
- [33:04]
C
Okay. There's so many good ones here. Okay. This is a good one. It's still a book club. If it happens over text, when you have time. Did you hear that? All. Everybody got it.
- [33:14]
B
It's still a book club. If it's all over text and when you have time.
- [33:21]
C
Yes, it's still a book club. Okay. That's the opinion. Everybody choose your numbers. Okay. Okay. Three, two, one.
- [33:33]
B
Two ones. Three ones and two twos.
- [33:35]
E
So we.
- [33:36]
B
Yes, we are disagreeing on this. Roxanna, what's your take on it?
- [33:41]
C
Yeah, I don't think that's true. I think that's a buddy read.
- [33:45]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [33:46]
C
I don't think that's a book club. Okay. And being. Having been part of buddy reads and being part of book clubs, there's a few things about book clubs that make it different. Okay. Even if it's a lot of people in that group text say. Right. There's something about being together virtually or in person at a certain time and discussing a book because it often leads to long asides about other things and then you hop off that person and then you're sharing things. And I find in text, of course, you might share an opinion where you say, yeah, you know, this reminds me of this happened in my life. And somebody will share that, but because it's text, you're less likely to do that. I also find book clubs are organized every month. We're going to discuss this. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I don't believe that. I just think that a buddy read is different from a book club. And, you know, for somebody who preferred buddy reads, frankly, for a long time over book clubs, I think both are good, but they're different things.
- [34:47]
B
Both are reading in community, but this is really a buddy read, and there are a lot of big benefits to that. Like, man, before the show, I didn't even know what a buddy read was. And like, buddy reading is such a joy in my life. And, you know, and I thought I hated book clubs, and it turns out I like being in a book club, too. But they are different.
- [35:05]
A
We all get to learn and grow, and we're allowed to change our opinions, too.
- [35:09]
B
All things reconsidered. Exactly.
- [35:11]
E
I've been in the same book club for 20 years, and we always do a theme. We're all really. We love to cook and we love to entertain. And so I think it makes even my reading experience different because I'm looking for cues on what we're gonna serve for drinks, what we're gonna serve for food, how we're going to go about the discussions. So I'm a big proponent of a really good book club.
- [35:35]
C
Love it.
- [35:35]
E
But I. And again, if this is your season that you just need the other and you're not even to social, that's great. It's all great, but it's just not the same.
- [35:43]
B
And again, the book club that I'm in is completely virtual.
- [35:46]
A
Right?
- [35:46]
B
Like, we don't. It's great. To meet in person is fantastic. And like, there's benefits to that. But also a book club where six of us get together on a set date and time and talk about a set book that we've all read even though we're all over the country. That's also, you know, there's so many different kinds of ways to read in community. I love it.
- [36:04]
A
Yes, definitely. Then, Meredith, it is your turn with a strong opinion.
- [36:08]
B
Okay, so most books don't need to be more than 350 pages. Most books. This is the opinion from bookish friend Ashley. Most books don't need to be more than 350 pages. All right, tell us what your score is. Ready? 3, 2, 1. Wait, wrong. Wait, hang on. My right number.
- [36:34]
E
The suspense,
- [36:39]
A
Meredith, is spicy the whole way through.
- [36:41]
B
I completely disagree. I love long books. I think some of the best books in the world are really, really long, long books. And I think there is.
- [36:54]
C
But Meredith, most. That's not what they're saying. They're saying most books should not be more than 350 pages. They're not saying they don't need to
- [37:05]
A
be more than 350.
- [37:07]
C
So look at your shelves. Should 80% of those books be more than 300?
- [37:12]
A
Be another 100 pages?
- [37:14]
C
More than 350.
- [37:14]
B
Okay. I didn't read it that way because I can't just like, pick a book up and be like, okay, Booth by Karen Joy Fowler.
- [37:21]
E
Like, do.
- [37:22]
B
Do I need it to be another 150 pages? No, I don't need it to be. But it wasn't written that way. I'm just saying that I don't. I don't want to live in a world where every book is 300 pages. There's something so great about being wrapped up in a story that you've been in for a really, really long time. Now I am sitting here being on the heels of having read like, a lot of big chonkers that I was very charmed by. But so I don't know. I think that goes to attention span. For us to be like, every book needs to be 300 or 350 pages or less.
- [37:54]
E
I don't think they need to be. It's just the most I love to have the shorter books, but I love big books. But not most of them.
- [38:03]
C
Me too.
- [38:03]
E
It's almost like a movie. Like when we were growing up, movies were two hours long.
- [38:08]
A
90 minutes and 90 minutes.
- [38:09]
B
90 minutes, yeah.
- [38:10]
E
I don't watch them anymore because they're three something hours long. You don't need all that time. So I think it's good to have a median of 336, which is pretty much what all books are. But there are books that definitely need to be longer. And I love long books, but not most. No ma'.
- [38:29]
A
Am.
- [38:29]
D
And I'm rarely as annoyed when I read a shorter book under 350. I'll sometimes be like, oh, I wish I had more time in that world. Or I wish that story was fleshed out. But if I read a 500 page book that should have been 400 pages, I get really annoyed. And so I don't feel as strongly if a book is underdeveloped. No, that's the wrong word. But I don't feel, I don't get like agitated if I'm like, oh, that book should have been longer. As I do. If I'm like, oh, that book needed to be shorter. Like that drives me crazy. And I do love a long book if it's well done. But I don't think most of them should be.
- [39:09]
C
You're probably. And I'll say most long books should be shorter. I'll even go that far like that. I read Calamity Club this year and I liked it a lot. It should have been 100 pages shorter. Now Covenant of Water. No, you know, Abraham Verghese, you go ahead, you take as many pages as you need, my friend. You have earned it. Okay, but come on, there's a lot of books out there that are 500 plus pages where I'm like, we just didn't need this. Like Calamity Club. She wrapped up in two pages at the end. And I was like, we just spent 200 pages on this piece of waiting. And then you could have gotten rid of that. Like there's so many books I can think of that are 500 plus. And I do think there's a skill to writing a shorter book. Like a skill of what you leave out and what you keep in and how you tell a story without telling it all. Now there's a skill to writing a longer book too. I love long books, but few books should be more than 350 pages. And many long books should be shorter.
- [40:11]
B
I feel, I think more books need better editing. Like we. I think that, I think that that's a piece that has really fallen off in the past 10 years, especially as I, as we've been reading books for the show. Is that. And I fear that this is going to continue to get worse with the changes that we're seeing in the publishing industry. Is that that piece where an editor would really come in alongside an author and make some hard decisions and like really cut like that piece? Yes. I think I would be willing to say most books would benefit from a better editor because you can have a 90 page book that felt long and boring and you can have an 800 page book that felt super fast and you were turning every page. You didn't want it to end. Right. So I just think that chonkers get a bad rap. And I also wonder if there's a difference between a 500 page book and like a 900 page book. Like are 500 page books more likely to need that edit that you're talking about, Roxanna, that like 150 page edit? But if something is 900 pages, it really should be that long. I just wonder if there's like a, like a moat of inadequacy in the center of that.
- [41:28]
E
And I would rather read a 900 page book, I think, than a trilogy. I'd rather just get it all in one fell swoop.
- [41:36]
B
Okay, that makes sense. I can see that.
- [41:39]
E
Yeah.
- [41:39]
A
Okay.
- [41:40]
E
The 500 pages are the ones I'm going to rip into.
- [41:42]
A
Yeah. I do think it's far more likely for any of us on the show to bring a 500 page book and say this could have been 100 pages shorter or there was a mushy middle or the plot lagged for a little while in such and such area of the book then a 900 page book like your to your point, Meredith. But I also think it's far more likely than any of us coming in and saying, gosh, I really wish I could have had another hundred pages in this exact world that this author already built. So I do think it's more likely for us to prefer culling than to prefer more wanting more.
- [42:15]
C
Yeah. Sorry, can I ask a follow up?
- [42:18]
A
Yeah.
- [42:18]
E
Yeah.
- [42:19]
A
Okay.
- [42:19]
C
Do you think in Dickens time this was an issue because you know, we're talking about better editors, but you know, there they wrote like they were paid on the number of words they wrote as serials. They like. Do you think anybody then was like, these need to be shorter? I mean they had a lot less entertainment then too. But it's not like they did a Better job. In fact, they wrote to make it long. So why do you think people didn't care as much then and now we really care about that?
- [42:48]
B
I think the attention economy. I think when you think about the fact that, like, the one thing you might have to do that night is to read the next little piece of the. Of the story that Charles Dickens has in the paper, it's that or staring at the wall. I mean, great. Tell me what you think, Chuck. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I think that just the way that they looked at what is interesting is completely different from what we're going to allow to take our attention. We have so many things vying for our attention now.
- [43:17]
E
But let's also think about this for a typical day. I mean, a typical Tuesday in the United States, hundreds of books are released. Hundreds every single week, every single year, from all over the globe. We are now able to get books from all over the world. In Charles Dickens time, it was. Chuck, like you said, there weren't a whole lot of options. That's why, you know, back in the day, there were people mysteries that had, you know, 50, number 50 in the whatever, whatever series. You just don't see that anymore. You see trilogies, you see duologies because people are done. They're ready to move on to the next author, the next world. They did not have that option back in Charles Dickens day. So I'm sure they hung on every, every word. Because in England, you are reading English authors or British authors and not the. Just the absolute deluge that we get every Tuesday here in the United States and I'm sure in Canada as well. So. Yeah, that's part of it too.
- [44:17]
B
Let me tell you a spicy take that I've been thinking about. I've been thinking a lot about it. I don't understand why publishing houses are putting out as many books as they're putting out, like from a pure profit and loss perspective. If it is rare for books to even sell 10,000 copies, and apparently that is even.
- [44:40]
A
It's rare to sell 3,000.
- [44:41]
C
Right.
- [44:42]
B
If that is true, then why are we doing this? Why are we putting out so many books? Why aren't they simply culling it down by half and putting more editorial energy and marketing budget toward half of the books. The books that are better definitely can't
- [45:01]
A
sell what you don't publish.
- [45:02]
E
Yeah, we had this discussion at Winter Institute where a very, very prominent bookseller got up in front of Winter Institute and just said, this has got to stop. I mean, you've got. Let's say there's the top five publishers and they have a thousand books at least on their catalog for each season and that's just the five big ones. And then there's all these teeny tiny presses and we are as booksellers reading as fast as we can to be able to recommend those books. But there's, it's just too many. It's absolutely too many. And a lot of them are less than good, I'm going to say. So I wish like you said that they would, they would do a lot more editing. They'll have a lot more discretion on what they're putting out. But another like the whole TikTok thing, people are doing self published books and getting on TikTok and there's a billion views on that. So the publishers feel like they are now going to have to start selling those books. I mean there's just, it's a whole other discussion.
- [45:53]
B
But at the same time they're offering book deals to every YouTuber out there. There are YouTubers and like TikTokers or whatever who are getting book deals. I'm like, I don't care about your life story.
- [46:05]
E
I don't care.
- [46:05]
B
I don't need a book from you. Go back to making the skits that you, that you made. I'm not talking about Shauna the mom. She's my favorite. It's my show. Leave me alone. Shauna's on. I'm not talking about Shauna. She has a book coming out. We should all buy it and read it. I'm talking about other people where I'm like, I don't understand again, I want to see the P and L that is showing that it makes more sense to keep inundating the public with all of these books. And it's just like all the pieces of the puzzle seem to be not nearly as good as it would be if we had fewer to concentrate on.
- [46:40]
E
Yep. It's a fishing expedition. You got to put out a bunch of books and then you never know which one's going to hit like the Correspondent or something along those lines. That's, I think one of the big reasons they do it. But I wish it would stop.
- [46:53]
C
Well, and when there are like every other industry I worked in consumer packaged goods. Right. There's a product development process now. This is art. I'm not, I'm not in any way trying to say that you should commercialize art.
- [47:06]
E
Right.
- [47:06]
C
But what I'm trying to say is when you are printing out a hundred different like read alikes of a certain Book. Why don't you call those. Have a focus group to your point, Meredith, like, say we're going to do the two best. They know what those are. It costs so much money to print a book. And I don't know if it's now because you can do it digitally, but even the editing, like, there's so much time and cover art, so much that goes into it. Do we need a thousand new World War II books?
- [47:34]
E
Right now? It's all trad wife books because of yesteryear.
- [47:38]
C
And I know they don't know which ones are gonna hit, but they gotta know which ones are not gonna hit. Like, I don't know. It just seems so weird to me.
- [47:45]
D
It's like that trope factory as opposed to. Right. The idea of a trope factory instead of yesteryear being right. Like the. I know there were that Joe Piazza book.
- [47:55]
C
Right.
- [47:55]
D
It's not the first of its kind, but it's like a really original read and then everything else that comes after. And I would much rather discover all these really great original reads than the trope factory that comes after.
- [48:08]
E
Yeah.
- [48:08]
A
Right.
- [48:09]
B
Now I realized by having the take like, oh, we shouldn't be publishing many books as we publish. I realized that what we risk is having the books that get culled, that don't get published be the ones by diverse voices, by, you know, the ones that we really need to be. So I would, if I had to choose, I would rather a system that is more egalitarian than less. But I just feel like that's a false choice. And I feel like we should be at a place where we could get fewer, higher quality books that at least then we could all have a moment to figure out, like, the ones that are really great and let's talk about those and elevate those. I constantly feel like I'm gonna miss a really great book because there's just so much coming at us all the time and we get what, 50, 60 emails a week from, you know, I
- [48:57]
A
would say far more than that.
- [48:58]
B
Authors wanting us to read their books. You know, it's just. It's impossible to. To keep up with. And I'm just always worried that we're going to miss something. There's just too much. It's a fire hose.
- [49:08]
E
Agree.
- [49:09]
B
Sorry I jumped in there with my spicy take.
- [49:11]
A
It's okay. It's all relevant. It's all bookish conversation. Just like we promised at the top of the show. Elizabeth, let's rapid fire the two of us. We're going to hit us with Our final spicy opinions. What do you got for us?
- [49:21]
E
I have one that is super spicy. Maybe. But one of them says, I'm tired of reading books written by men.
- [49:30]
A
I don't even need to wait, honestly. Yeah.
- [49:33]
B
Oh, our first three. Our first three.
- [49:36]
E
All right.
- [49:37]
B
Roxanna gave it a three. Elizabeth, go ahead.
- [49:40]
E
I read more women than I read men. There is no doubt. But I think there's such a feeling of it's half the population. Roughly half the books written are by men. And I don't want to miss really good books just because the author thinks about the Roman Empire. I think there's a lot of really, really good male authors, and I don't think that we need to throw them all in one big basket and dismiss them. I think it's very important to read female authors, diverse authors. And I think it's important to read from the male perspective, too, as mothers of sons. And we have husbands and other people we deal with on a daily basis, half of the population. And I think we're doing a great disservice in our society by only. And I hear it all the time. I don't want to read male authors anymore. And I'm like, there's fantastic books out there written by men. Why would you completely dismiss books based on that? So I feel very strongly about this. And I also, again, mostly read women, and I love female authors, and I will highlight them to the ends of the earth. More books are written by women. But I do not like the idea that we're tired of reading men or we don't want to hear from the male perspective.
- [50:59]
B
That makes sense. Katie, what about you?
- [51:02]
A
If I have multiple books in front of me, the fastest way that I can get rid of some things from my TBR is, okay, well, I'm only going to read the women. I feel like, especially within this, let's say, northern hemisphere, so that we've got Roxanna and everybody else on this continent with us. We are so inundated every day with the opinions of men that I like. I don't need it in my reading life. And even if I don't go seek it out, I'm gonna find it anyway. It's gonna be in the news. It's gonna be everywhere I look. And that is not to say that I wish I had never read a book written by a man. Some of my favorite authors are men. Like, just the other day, I was talking about David Sedaris, Jason Reynolds, SA Cosby. I adore these authors. I love what they write. And also If I never read another book written by a man, I would still have the opinions of men constantly in my life and their stories constantly elevated around me. So I just don't need them.
- [52:03]
D
I'll piggyback off of Katie because I think I share a lot of that. And some of this for me is just. I was looking at my recently read books and I just haven't. I don't gravitate towards books written by men. And that's not necessarily on purpose. Totally. There are some of my favorite books of all time written by men, but also generally I'm more interested. Obviously I can't speak to this from the male perspective, but I will more often see men poorly writing women than I think I see women poorly writing men. I agree with Katie that it feels like men's opinions are in my ears all day long.
- [52:43]
B
Of the media, the air surrounding us.
- [52:44]
D
Right. The air surrounding us that I don't necessarily feel the need to purposefully seek it out. And I just so happen to be reading a lot of Women and I feel good and fine about that. I would never say, oh, I'm not gonna read that because it's by a man. But generally I'm gonna gravitate towards books by women. And I also think if we look at the arc of time, right, We've been reading books by men for all of time. I think it's fine to catch up a little bit and read more books by women and maybe equal things out. But I agree that I. There's nuance here, but if I'm going to pick one, it's going to be a five. Roxanna, I want to hear about you in the middle.
- [53:21]
B
Yeah, I think.
- [53:22]
C
Okay, now that I have Elizabeth's opinion, I think I'll be a two. So I was a three. Because I wasn't sure if men represented proportionally the amount of books out there. Like if men were way more. If they were 70% of books written and women were 30%, then I would say, okay, but if it's 50, 50. I think women readers largely reading women writers can be dangerous. And I also think. Because what I think is the bigger problem is reading from a representational group of people. Diverse group of people, not just diverse. And I gotta say this, guys, not just diverse in America, because that's what we get a lot of. Okay, Diverse in the world. We don't get a lot of voices from around the world. That is not reader's fault. That's because it's expensive to translate. It's expensive to bring in books, we're already getting so much from America to go to other places. I get that. But when you look at the amount of perspectives we get from different countries in the world, it is minute. And so, you know, we get a lot of immigrant stories. We don't get a lot from different places in the world. So if I'm reading the Jinn and the God of Tuesday by a Bangladeshi man, if I'm reading Abraham Verghese's story, there's so many stories that are written by men that have different perspectives, right? Like Funny Boy Shams, Salvador, an old one, but, like, from Sri Lanka, you know, I am learning a lot about those cultures and the men in those cultures and people in those cultures. And that, to me is underrepresented. Yes, I have men's voices in my ears all the time. Do I have Bangladeshi men and Ugandan men and, you know, Chinese men and Japanese men? No, I don't. So for me, it's not about evening out the men or reading more women. It's just reading people from different worldviews in different countries. And I make a concerted effort and it is still so hard to find. So to me, I'd still read their pers and trans men. And, like, I realized this question wasn't to trans.
- [55:19]
E
I get that.
- [55:20]
C
But, like, I just think there's a lot of diverse male perspectives out there that we need more of a worldview than a. A male, female dichotomy.
- [55:28]
B
You know, this goes back the comment that you just made, Roxanna, goes back to the moment that I. The actual moment that I knew that Roxanna was going to be like a soulmate level friend. And that was when years ago, years and years ago, I was talking. We were talking about end of year, kind of end of year stats that kind of, you know, are reading. And I said something about how like 80% of the books that I had read had been by women because I was really prioritizing reading books by women and how my level of diversity was low, but I was really prioritizing reading books by women. And Roxanna is in voice memos. And Roxanna sent me a voice memo and she was like, you reading books by the same group of people that you belong to is not groundbreaking stuff here. Like, this is not you breaking out and whatever. If you want to, you know, if you want to get more perspectives, read from other countries, read from other, you know, whatever. And I was like, she's my person. Because she just totally called me on something that was absolutely True. And had no problem saying like, yeah, that thing that you just said was like a big good thing. It's. It's not like you're just wrong about that. And I just, it like that reads as trust to me. I can trust someone when they are that honest to me. And I. So, Roxanne, the point that you just made just really brought about that moment to me. Which is right. Is it really about men or women? Or is it about reading from a broader perspective in life in general? Which I think is. I think it's a really good point.
- [57:00]
E
I think also just systematically saying this, this book is written by a man, so I'm not going to read it. That's different to me. And also a lot of times I don't think necessarily a book or a mystery or whatever that's written by a man is really shouting opinions about life and society. I think it's just sometimes a really well written book and it's a male author. So I think I want to have my mystery section has mysteries from all over the world, my classics from all over. It's very important to me that we have that representation. And I think it's very important. Important. I, I want at Fable to have windows and mirrors. There are books that everyone can find a book in our shop that looks like them. But there's also so many books where you can learn about the world. So I think they're, in my opinion, my very strong, me only opinion. I don't like the idea of systematically saying I'm not, I don't want to read men anymore because I just don't think that's healthy for society, myself, personally.
- [58:01]
A
Yeah.
- [58:01]
B
And the good thing is we can all make those choices for ourselves. And I think probably where we would all agree is it's great. Like the person who had that, who made that comment, can absolutely make that choice for herself. She can say, I'm going to only read books by women because that's super, super important to me. As long as we all hold respect for how we each might read and make those choices differently. Right?
- [58:24]
A
Yes, Agree. Okay, I am going to bookend this conversation with another audiobook opinion because this is our final one of this show. So Christy says you should not narrate your own audiobook, which is a complete sentence. So we're all going to agree or disagree again. Meredith is the outlier. We have one one from Elizabeth, three twos from Mary, Roxanna and myself. And then Meredith gave it a five. She vehemently agrees with this opinion.
- [58:55]
B
Meredith, what I think most people should not. Should not do their own audiobook. I just feel like most people don't have good enough voices to do it. I know I certainly wouldn't do my own.
- [59:06]
A
Well, I feel like that would. People are going to push back on that opinion that if you ever write a book, somebody's going to want to hear you read it because your voice is great.
- [59:14]
B
Well, but I just think that there are professional people who could do a much better job than I could. And I think that that's true. Most of the time.
- [59:23]
E
I don't want to read a memoir from somebody from Britney Spears. I guess it was a Britney Spears memoir that somebody else narrated. That seemed weird to me.
- [59:32]
B
Yeah, I mean, memoirs are obviously the place where that would be the diciest. But I still, you know, I still stand by the fact that there are a lot of people who just don't have a. Not just a voice, like the quality of voice, but the ability to articulate a story in an audio way that would. Audio narrators are professionals at a level that I just am completely in awe of, and I think we should just let them do their thing.
- [59:57]
A
I do agree with that. It's a. It's a completely separate skill to write well and to read well. Those are not the same thing. And being able to read aloud well does not mean you would be a good writer. Ergo, vice versa is not the case. Right. We should never assume that just because somebody can write well means they can read aloud well, even if it's their own words. But when it's a memoir, especially written by a famous person whose voice I already know, whose story I'm going to. In order to hear it from them, I seek out the audio and I always want it to be read by them because that's part of the story for me. Like Stanley Tucci not reading his audiobook. Speaking of men who I would happily read more of Stanley Tucci not reading his own audiobook would be a tragedy. It's so good. It's so good. Right?
- [60:47]
B
Or David Sedaris to read his stuff.
- [60:49]
A
Exactly. So I will let go of memoirs read by the author with my cold, dead fingers.
- [60:55]
C
Right.
- [60:56]
B
If we can peel off that slice, I would definitely agree with that slice. Now here's a spicy take that I have on audiobooks. I do not think celebrities should read fictional audiobooks. I really, really feel like it is so hard for me if it's a recognizable voice. Meryl Streep. It's so hard to take the person out of it and Just let me read the story again. Let's let the audio narrator professionals do their job.
- [61:26]
D
I'm gonna push back on that a little because I do think about Kate McKinnon and Millicent Quibb or who else am I thinking of? There was another one.
- [61:35]
B
Well, Tom Hanks in Dutch House.
- [61:37]
D
Tom Hanks in Dutch House. Robert Bathurst and Louise Penny.
- [61:43]
A
Three Pines. Yeah, right.
- [61:44]
D
There are. I do have some exceptions to this rule, which is why I put myself at a two, because I think that there are terrible. There are authors who should not be reading their books. And I think that there's total. There's exceptions to the rules that I've really enjoyed. So I can't get out a one or a five with this one. But I lean more strongly towards the. I've had more enjoyable exceptions than I have had terrible experiences. Maybe that's just because if the audio is really bad, I would just dip out and be like, time to grab the print book.
- [62:18]
C
Well, and I will say, I think before authors thought they could read more of their audiobooks, before they realized what an art it was. And I do see less of that now, and I'm grateful for that because I 100% agree with you, Meredith. Like fictional books and even memoirs, if they're not good readers. Like, I'll even go that far, because it's not even the reading, it's the directing. You know, like, first of all, you're talking at one speed, which. God. Like that already, and being able to imbue that with some sort of emotion when you're speaking like this. So most of the time, I agree with you. I will say, when I heard that Ann Patchett was going to narrate her own book for Whistler, I was very scared. And I was like, this woman is excellent at so many things, but I'm not sure she should add another one to the list. But I will say I actually enjoyed that even more than Meryl Streep and Tom Hanks. She was directed really well. So I think if you are going to narrate your own book, not only do you have to be. Have an amazing voice, but you have to have a great director in the room, because otherwise it just goes to pot for sure.
- [63:27]
B
That's a good point. The director really matters.
- [63:29]
A
Elizabeth, you are our only one in that opinion. Do you have anything to add to this?
- [63:35]
E
I mean, no, I. I just think if you are a writer and you have a really great voice, then sure, but. And also. And I guess I was also thinking mostly about memoir. I don't like to sell memoirs at the shop because I'm like, listen to it on the audio. It's way better.
- [63:52]
B
But, you know, that's interesting.
- [63:54]
A
Just a Libro FM QR code.
- [63:57]
E
Yes, exactly. You know, I don't buy a ton of them because I think most people want to hear. That's such a great audio experience, I think, for memoir. Yeah. I just think if you have a great voice and you write a book, great. But I wouldn't.
- [64:12]
C
I.
- [64:13]
E
Maybe I should have done a two instead. Because you. That shouldn't be. Just because you wrote a book, it doesn't mean you should narrate it. So.
- [64:21]
B
Excellent.
- [64:21]
A
All right. I think we've made a lot of really great rulings, a lot of strong opinions.
- [64:26]
D
Yes.
- [64:27]
B
Yes. Thank you again to all of our bookish friends who gave us these spicy opinions, all of the comments within those threads. Again, if you'd like to join us as a bookish friend, join us on Patreon because that's how all these yahoos got into this group and gave us the ability to. To talk about their spicy opinions.
- [64:47]
A
So chaos, right?
- [64:48]
B
And I say Yahoo in the most loving way possible because I love every one of them. All right, that is it for this week. As a reminder, here's where you can connect with us. You can find me I'm Meredith at meredithmonday Schwartz on Instagram and you can
- [65:02]
A
find me Katie@notesonbookmarks on Instagram.
- [65:06]
C
You can find me Roxanna Roxannethereader on Instagram.
- [65:10]
D
You can find me Mary@maryreadsandmakes on Instagram.
- [65:14]
E
And you can find me Elizabeth@wacoreads on Instagram.
- [65:18]
A
Our show is produced and edited every week by Megan Putamong Evans. You can find her on Instagram doing this heavy lift this week at Most of megansreads.
- [65:26]
B
Thank you for this, Megan. Full show notes with the title of every book we mentioned in the episode and timestamps so you can zoom right to where we talked about. It can be found in those show notes and also on our website@currentlyreadingpodcast.com you
- [65:40]
A
can also follow the show urentlyreading podcast on Instagram or email us@hellourrentlyreading podcast.com if you head to our website or our substack, you'll be able to sign up for our reader Know Thyself newsletter which will help you curate your own strong opinions about reading. You can also find us on YouTube where we're constantly adding new features.
- [66:01]
B
And again, if you want to join us and get more of this content, you can join us at patreon.com forward/currentlyreading podcast. You can also help us by rating and reviewing us on Apple podcasts or on Spotify and shout us out on social media. Every one of those things helps us to find our perfect audience.
- [66:21]
A
Yes, Bookish friends are the best friends. Thank you for watching us and listening to us and helping us grow.
- [66:27]
B
Right until next week.
- [66:28]
A
May your coffee be hot and your book be unputdownable.
- [66:31]
C
Happy reading, Happy reading. Happy reading, Happy reading.