B (3:18)

It happens to the best of us, Katie. It really, really does.

A (3:21)

They're both like black mermaids, you know? Like, I was like, this is fine. I definitely remember. Nope. It's not the same. Nope.

B (3:28)

What I will tell you is that has happened to me before, and it's very, very unsettling.

A (3:32)

Yes. Yes. Cause I was like, why? Why can't I remember any of these people? This is so strange. She's acting like, I know all these people, and I have no idea who they are.

B (3:42)

Yeah.

A (3:42)

Cause you didn't read that book, dummy.

B (3:44)

You know what's funny? I had a similar thing happen. And I'll just make this my bookish moment of the week, and we will share one, because I was listening to. So I just went on my trip to Scotland. We went to Edinburgh. Betsy and I did. And we went to London. Right. So it was this fantastic trip. Edinburgh is everything that it's cracked up to be. And I really loved being there. And so when I got home, I wanted to kind of continue to be there. So I thought, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna re to v E. Schwab's City of ghosts.

A (4:17)

Yes.

B (4:18)

Because I read that years ago. I loved it. It's great for this time of year. It's very ghosty, and it's set in Edinburgh. And I was like, oh, I will get so much more out of it this time, because I've. Because I've just been there, right? So I'm happily listening to it. In this case, I happen to use Spotify because I don't even know why I chose Spotify. But this comes up in the story because I noticed when I started, when I pulled it up and I did a search for it, it came up kind of in a weird way. Like, it didn't look exactly the same as normal, but whatever, I wasn't thinking too much about it. I needed to get on with my chores. So I just press go and started listening to it. And about 20 minutes in, I'm listening and listening, and I'm like, wait, what just happened? But I listened longer. I listened for, like another 20 minutes, and I'm like, wait, nothing is making. Like, what is wrong with me? Am I having a stroke? Like, nothing is making sense to me. And then I looked, realized that on Spotify, for whatever reason, City of Ghosts came up as an album instead of as an audiobook. And my album settings were on shuffle.

A (5:24)

No.

B (5:26)

So it was shuffling. But it had, like, these long segments. They're not chapters, because it didn't align with the chapters of the book, but they were, like, long. Right. So, like, I could get enough into it that I didn't really notice until all of a sudden I was somewhere completely different in the book. It was very unsettling. So, like, I didn't do that. Wasn't really user. Because I went back and looked and. No, that was the only option that I had. There was not, like, an audiobook option.

A (5:54)

Right.

B (5:54)

It was unsettling.

A (5:55)

It was a Spotify weirdness. But, wow. Yeah.

B (5:59)

I wonder if anyone else has run into that on Spotify. Like, I googled it because I was like. I just felt so unsettled by it, but I couldn't find anybody complaining about it or whatever.

A (6:08)

Okay, this is not the same thing. And this is not story time either. But the very first time that I was getting ready to go see Hamilton, I decided to download the soundtrack and listen to it beforehand so I could be familiar with the music. And it downloaded, you know, the entire thing. But when I went to play it, it played the newest tracks first. So it played all the songs in reverse order. So I started spoiler alert. I was like, what is happening? Like, these are great songs, but I do not understand a story or a. Yeah. Cause I started at the end and then went awkward. I made it.

B (6:45)

Did you listen to the whole thing?

A (6:47)

No, I made it probably through most of the second half, though, before I really realized that that was what was going on. Cause I was on a road trip. I couldn't just be, like, looking at my phone to see what was happening. Right? So I'm just, like, listening. Okay. It's a bop. I like it, but I don't get it at all, you know? No.

B (7:03)

And then you. Yeah. Then you find out that Hamilton's a jerk before you find out all the great things about him.

A (7:08)

I'm like, wait, she had to forgive him? What is going on? That's ridiculous. That sucks.

B (7:13)

That sucks.

A (7:14)

Oh, my gosh. Yep. Listen responsibly. Read responsibly. We don't know what's going on.

B (7:19)

Right. Technology sometimes is really helpful. And sometimes. Sometimes a print book just wouldn't give us, you know, nearly as many problems.

A (7:26)

Although some people have posted about, like, look at my weird printing. That, like, this chapter is in the wrong spot or whatever. Right. Or this book is half upside down. Some. It happens.

B (7:38)

It does happen. It does happen. All right, Katie, let's talk about some of our current reads. We haven't. I haven't recorded in a couple of weeks because I went on my trip, so I'm really excited to find out what you've been reading.

A (7:51)

Good, good. I'm excited, too. My first one this week is A Ladies Formula for Love by Elizabeth Everett. This one was very personally pressed into my hands by the lovely staff at Open Door Romance, which is a new part of the novel Neighbor in Webster Groves, Missouri. This additional storefront that they've expanded into focused entirely on romance, and it's an absolute delight to visit them and stroll the shelves. They've got it all, like, painted cute and pretty. You can take little selfies in there. They have books divided by genre within romance. And when I asked for a personal favorite from the booksellers, I was directed to this backless gem. So here's the setup. Lady Violet is our main character. She is a noblewoman who founded a secret society. There, the foremost female scientists of Britain can conduct their experiments regarding chemistry, physics, physics, and even astronomy in peace, safe from the prying and often nefarious eyes of men who would like women in general to stay in their place at home and definitely never wear pants. Right? Violet has been set a specific task. She's working on a secret mission for the crown. Yes, that crown. The bloody Victorian Queen of England herself. But when it seems that someone has broken into the lab section of the house, Mr. Arthur Nealand is appointed to serve as a security officer for the ladies. And for Violet in particular, Arthur is dedicated to his job. He's like, like tall and stoic. I pictured him as like Jason Statham, right? He's just like, very stoic. Excuse.

B (9:16)

Jason Statham's little. He's a little guy.

A (9:20)

He's reserved. He's prone to distraction. He's not prone to distraction. He has a dark spot on his record, though, in which his feelings got in the way of his job. And he has therefore shut down anything other than his dedication to his work. No feelings, just work. But the more time Violet and Arthur spend in each other's professional company, the more it becomes clear that their non professional feelings for each other could endanger her and her work. Before the lab and their hearts go up in flames, they must determine who's breaking into the facility and what they're trying to steal. So this is staminist romance a la Ali Hazelwood, but bring it back 200 years to the Victorian era. These women are smart and driven and science minded, and they also live in a time where pants are not an option for females in society. The way that Elizabeth Everett highlighted that dichotomy between propriety and society and the quest for knowledge and discovery that Lady Violet and her researchers are pursuing brought me so much joy. This one was funny and sweet, but the timeline makes some unexpected jumps that are a little hard to keep track of. And we do have a large number of women introduced at the outset, which I assume is because this is the first in a Secret Societies of London series. So we will be visiting each one of these women in turn. Currently, this series has three books in it, but the last one came out in 2023, so it may be complete. Those quibbles aside, I enjoyed this one enough that when the publisher reached out to us this week about Everett's new Release coming in March 2026, it's called Magic and Mischief at the Wayside Hotel, I jumped right in. I'm excited about the idea that Cozy Fantasy would be another great place to visit this author. And I requested a galley right away. This one is A Lady's Formula for Love by Elizabeth Everett.

B (11:02)

Oh, you know, I love a bodyguard trope. And also, I think we should be starting more secret societies.

A (11:10)

Yes, yes. Right. With, like, doors that you can't see unless you know how to open them. Yep.

B (11:16)

Right. Secret code words, all of that. I love it. Okay. All right. My first book was one that I really, really enjoyed and kind of put me in the travel mood that I was gearing up for. This book is called the Unraveling of Julia by Lisa Scottellini. Here's the setup. Our lead character is Julia Pritzker. And she is. She's really, really going through it. She's still processing the loss of her adoptive parents when her husband is killed while protecting her from a mugging in Philadelphia. So, like these back to back tragedies happen to her. She's in the grips of grief. She becomes fixated on the fact that her horoscope on the morning that her husband was murdered had warned of danger. And she just becomes hyper fixated on this and spirals into questions about fate. And of course she's worried, like, should she have done something? If she had heeded this warning, then this wouldn't have happened. Then an unexpected letter arrives from Italy. She has inherited a fortune and a crumbling Tuscan villa from a woman named Emilia Rossi. But the name Emilia Rossi means nothing to Julia at all. For Julia, she. And she knows nothing about her biological family, so she's thinking there's some connection there. This mysterious benefactor raises the question, could Emilia be the key to her understanding, finally, who she actually is? So what begins as a search for identity in the hills of Tuscany quickly becomes something more unsettling. Because when she gets there, to this crumbling estate that she has inherited, the estate's caretakers are friendly, but they have destroyed all, all traces of Amelia's personal belongings. The strangers in the town seem unnaturally interested in in Julia. And the villa itself harbors an atmosphere that makes her question what is real? And is she kind of just losing the plot because she's in the grips of her grief? As Julia experiences increasingly vivid dreams and she uncovers connections between Renaissance history and her own bloodline, she realizes that this inheritance has come pretty massive strings attached. All right. I loved what Happened to the Bennets by Lisa Scottellini. And that was a book that was brought to me by Elizabeth Barnhill via All Things Murderful, as was this one. If you liked what Happened to the Bennets, you are definitely going to want to grab this one immediately. Scottellini takes us from the streets of Philadelphia to this crumbling villa. And I had no idea where this story was going to go from one page to the next. It's part psychological thriller, part very gothic mystery, with just enough haunting elements to keep you guessing whether Julia is truly losing her mind or if something supernatural is at play. I will say that the audio is fantastic on this one. The narrator handles the Italian beautifully, and between the descriptions of the Tuscan countryside and the food, I was really, really wishing that I had a trip to Italy planned. Scottellini doesn't just tell you about Tuscany. She's putting you there. You can practically taste the ribollita and feel the warm Italian sun on your face. The atmosphere becomes almost another character in the story. And it's done so well that even when creepy things are happening in the villa, you still kind of want to move in. Now you know that dream sequences and vision scenes in books are something that I really like to stay away from. They often feel like lazy writing or kind of a way to dump a bunch of information. But this time, these elements were handled really beautifully. The dreams and the visions that Julia is being haunted with are not just kind of window dressing. They're integral to her unraveling the mystery of her inheritance and her own identity. Plus, there's enough action and forward momentum that even when we're dealing with these more are they supernatural elements, the pages keep turning. The book gives you ton of Renaissance history and art, which feels really integral to the story. Again, it doesn't go off on rabbit holes. It keeps itself moving forward. But if you like learning about those things, there's plenty of it woven in here. There's a dog you can absolutely root for and who is definitely okay at the end.

A (15:46)

Good to know.

B (15:47)

If there is a weak spot in the book, it's the romance subplot. It felt a little bit rushed, but it didn't bother me that much because everything else works really, really well. The romance is there, but it is not the engine driving this story. The mystery and Julia's journey of self discovery and what she has to do with these women from Renaissance history and Amelia are what keep you hooked. The ending wraps up really neatly. Every thread gets tied up, every question gets answered, and I loved it. But I could see some readers who were sensitive about that kind of ending thinking it's too tidy. So I just want to put that out there. If that's something that really bothers you, you should know that that is something that happens here. But I liked getting all the answers to all of my questions, and I liked this book a lot. This is the Unraveling of Julia by Lisa Scottellini.

A (16:40)

Sounds good. I love Italy.

B (16:42)

Yeah, I have never been there, but this one really made me say I have got to. I just really have got to make this one of my next European trips.

A (16:50)

Yes. Someday we'll get there. It's gonna be fun. Let's do a retreat. Let's do a. Currently reading Italy.

B (16:56)

Oh, wouldn't that be so great?

A (16:57)

Yes.

B (16:58)

Yes.

A (16:59)

Okay. My second spot this week is nonfiction, but not the dreaded second spot Just nonfiction, right? I'm gonna talk about Race Lists by Georgina Laughton this is memoir, and it's the kind that invites you into a story of someone you probably don't know before you pick it up. And by the end you're friends with the author and you feel like you've been part of their story. Moving forward Georgina Lawton writes for the Guardian in the uk. She was raised in an English suburb and had no answers as to why she looked different than the rest of her family. Her parents are white, British and Irish. Her brother is white, her classmates are white. But as she grew, it became more and more apparent that her dark skin was not just a tan, and when her classmates started teasing her for her kinked hair texture, she started to really feel that difference. Her parents insisted, though, that they are colorblind to her differences and they opted not to acknowledge them at all. You're our daughter. That's all there is to say about it. She had no access to black culture, no way to make sense of who she was and why she was different. After her father died, Georgina opted to take a DNA test ancestry or 23andMe and she figured out that even though both parents are white, her results came back as 43% Nigerian and she is definitely not her father's daughter. With her mom remaining tight lipped about her real heritage, Georgina decides to flee England and starts living in black communities all around the world. The us different parts of the uk, Nicaragua, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Vietnam and Morocco. And she starts exploring her identity about what it means to live in and navigate the world as a black woman. She intersperses those personal experiences with interviews with psychologists and sociologists and experts in genetic testing in order to pull apart her experiences of racial identity and the questions that she has about understanding how we identify ourselves as humans. This book is reflective and informative, but it's also completely conversational. I picked it up on my road trip this summer at a used bookstore and it was a pleasant surprise all the way through. Excellent writing, emotionally resonant, and the conversations she has with her mom, especially because her mom is still alive when all of this self realization is happening. They left me feeling a little bit bereft and a little bit healed and I just thought she navigated those really, really well. This is a very personal journey for Regina and her family, but she shares it with grace and with gentleness instead of judgment and harshness and I loved getting to be part of it, even though I had no idea who she was since I finished It. I have talked to numerous people about this book because I thought she did such a wonderful job pulling us into her story. So this is Raceless by Georgina Lawton.

B (19:36)

That sounds really, really good.

A (19:39)

It is really good. I was shocked I'd never heard of it before. It was just like bright yellow. You know how yellow calls to you? It's so like bright yellow spine on the shelf. And I was like, what's this? And it was really good.

B (19:50)

Some serendipity for you. All right. I also have nonfiction also one that really, really worked for me. This one is called the Places that scare you.

A (20:02)

Ooh.

B (20:03)

This is by Pima Chodron. So Pima Chodron is serious writing in that this isn't your typical self help book. It's a Buddhist inspired guide that aims to give you the tools to stop running from the hard stuff and to start using it to be better in the world, better in your relationships. But instead of teaching you better kind of defense strategies against negativity or against hard things, she shows us how to soften into the discomfort using practices like tonglen, which is I learned here, sending and receiving compassion. And she also talks about loving kindness meditation that actually works to bring your cortisol levels down. This is a book for anyone who has exhausted their own patterns, is exhausted of their own patterns of shutting down or checking out or going into full on fight or flight mode when life gets uncomfortable. All right, so let me be real about two things. This book sat on my shelf of in Emergency Break Glass books. I've talked about having that shelf before. It's always a great comfort for me and I was in that kind of emergency. My husband and I have been struggling for a couple of years now in our marriage and things hit a real low point in July. As I said, it was an emotional emergency and as I knew it would, this was the right book to come alongside me in my journey of extreme emotional discomfort that has been the last three months of my life. Partly because of that, I had to take this book really slow as I was reading it. Sometimes I found myself reading the same sentence over and over again, either because my mind just wasn't processing things properly or often because I didn't want to understand what Todren was saying. You know that feeling when something's true but you're not ready to face it? That for the whole book. But here's what I discovered. The most accessible moments are when Pima Chodron drops the kind of Buddhist teacher Persona and gets really real about her own struggles. I've read a Few of her books, and there's something about her that can almost feel too perfect or too enlightened to be a real person. But then she'll share how she lost it in heavy traffic or got triggered by someone's comment after decades of doing this work, and suddenly you realize, wait, she does still struggle with stuff. So it maybe feels like maybe you're not getting it as wrong as you thought you were. What makes this book different than typical spiritual books is that Children isn't promising that you will feel better or that life will get easier. She's actually suggesting something much more radical than that, that our most difficult moments are doorways to compassion. Compassion for ourselves, compassion for others. The places that scare you, she would say, are not obstacles to avoid. They are the invitations that we should accept. And that is, for me, both terrifying and liberating. So if you need concrete action steps and quick fixes, this book might frustrate you. If you prefer your spiritual guidance with an everything happens for a reason platitude, you are not going to find that here. But. But if you find yourself in a place where you want to, or you're being forced to sit with discomfort and you're looking for a different way to work with fear that doesn't involve bulldozing through it or running away, this book just might change how you move through the world. It definitely helped me move through a really difficult time. This is the Places that Scare you by Pima Children.

A (23:49)

Well, it sounds excellent. And also hard.

B (23:52)

Yes.

A (23:53)

And that's. I mean, and that's what you said, so.

B (23:55)

Right, exactly. And, you know, I will say, Katie, I wasn't necessarily going to say anything about this, but I do feel like I want to say that we've talked over the course of the last eight years about how reading, our lives affect our reading and our reading affects our lives. We've talked obviously, through our different parts of our journeys in our marriages. You certainly have been open with us about the journey that you've been on. And I want to say that I've been married. Johnny and I have been married for 24 years. And we love each other very, very, very much. And we're compatible in many ways. And also things have been really hard for a long time. Hard to the point where I was like, I just don't know if I want to be married anymore. And we both had to really face that. And it was really hard and really messy. And we have been working extraordinarily hard with a lot of different resources to work through that. And luckily, as of now, we have decided that all of the good stuff that we have is worth us continuing to really work to be together, because we love each other very, very much. Why am I saying this right now? I'm saying this because there's a lot of you who listen to this, and most of you are women. Not all, but most. And I think it's really important that when we have an opportunity to say, hey, I'm going through this really hard thing, maybe you have or you will, and it's going to be okay whether it ends one way or another way. And it's just if you're going through something like this, you are not alone.

A (25:31)

Yeah.

B (25:32)

You. You never know what people are going through. And I just. When you are in that really hard place, I know I feel really alone. And I look at other people and I look at their relationships, and I think they're doing it right and I'm doing it wrong because we're in this really awful, ugly place. But that's probably. It's definitely not true. You really never know exactly what's happening. And someone who you think has got it all together or who has the perfect relationship may be struggling right alongside you is the point that I'm making. So. And also, middle marriage is hard, and sometimes marriages need to end, and sometimes there's enough to save, and every relationship is different. But middle marriage is hard. It's hard. And so if you're going through that, you're not alone and you're not doing things wrong, it's just really hard sometimes. So I just wanted to say that because I know sometimes I wish that I could hear that from somebody outside of my life, too. Was there anything that you wanted to say about that?

A (26:34)

Yes. As Jason and I went through what was essentially middle marriage as well, we made it to our 18th anniversary, and while we were hitting 19 years was when we were getting divorced. That's a long time to be with somebody. And even now, on the other side of the entire process, even on my angriest days, I am still so grateful for what came of that long relationship and the things I learned about myself and the children that I get to mother into adulthood in this world. And I think it's okay to acknowledge that there is this vast complexity in everything having to do with human relationship, and that sometimes it works out the way exactly the way you hoped, and sometimes it's really hard to get to that place that you hoped, and sometimes it's not possible. And all of those can exist in our current timeline. In our current world without lessening any experience along the way. So, yeah, I think it's so important. Like, our people know us. Right. And they know that we want to be transparent, and they're part of this conversation as well, even if they're not on the mic with us. And they're gonna be grateful to hear this too. Right.

B (27:49)

And there are gonna be some people who are like, this is a book podcast. Moving along, ladies. Yeah. Right. And that's okay, too. But there are so many people who. For whom. When. When they know that we are walking similar journeys to the journey that they've walked, if they feel less alone, and for that reason, I think it makes sense, you know, we'll move it along. We're not going to stay parked here. But this book. Our reading affects our life, and our life affects our reading. This book came alongside me at the places that scare you. Just taking it off of my emergency break glass shelf was an act of courage for me, because that is a shelf that is really serious to me. And I had to admit that I was in an emergency when I did it.

A (28:33)

Yeah.

B (28:33)

And then I had to be willing to sit with this book and the things that it. That it had to say to me, and a lot of them were not things that I necessarily wanted to hear, you know? So our books are really personal sometimes, and this particular one was one that I didn't feel like I could talk about on the show and remove that element of things, because that would have felt really inauthentic to me.

A (28:54)

Yeah, definitely. It makes sense. Okay, I've got something fun and light to talk about now.

B (29:00)

Awesome.

A (29:01)

My third book is the In Between Bookstore by Edward Underhill. So there are some similarities between this one and another book I recently read. So if you're hearing anything and you're like, wait, didn't Katie already talk about this one? I promise it's different. Here's the setup. Darby is living in New York City. He's pursuing his dreams. He moved to attend college and leave his tiny hometown of Oak Hill. He wanted to start afresh and find a new community that only knew him as his true identity as a trans man. But now that he's almost 30, he suddenly finds that he's unemployed and his mom is ready to downsize. I know I said fun and light, guys. I'm getting there. I promise. So he lets go of his extremely expensive apartment because hello, New York City that he can no longer afford, and moves back in with his mom for a bit to help her out and figure out what else he wants to do moving forward. When he moves back to his old hometown, though, he can tell that he's not the only person or thing that has changed. Downtown is now trendy and cute and no one recognizes Darby, despite his mom's vociferous support. She's like, I have a son. His name is Darby. She's very Team Darby. This is not a parents kicked me out because small town, small mindedness. That's not this story. The only thing that strikes a chord of familiarity for Darby is in between books where Darby worked during high school. When he walks into the bookstore now, there's a strange sense of deja vu. It feels like the store was frozen in time. All the books are from 2009 or before, and behind the register is someone who's strangely familiar. That's because the person working the register is Darby at 16. Every time he walks into the store alone, he finds his younger self. And the timing is especially propitious because he realizes that this week exactly matches the week in 2009 when he fell out with his ex best friend Michael. And Michael still lives in Oak Falls and everything is still weird with him. So maybe if Darby can figure out this past timeline wormhole snafu, he can also keep young Darby from losing one of the best relationships he ever had. This novel is full of life and hope. We've got Michael, we've got New York City, we've got this tiny town and this adorable bookst. We do have Darby's past mistakes to contend with, but this is not a novel of trans prejudice and discrimination. Darby has both a lovely family, genetic family, and a great found family in New York City. He's floundering a bit in the beginning. He's in his early 30s, he just lost his job, but he's not a mess. He's just living life. And these are some roadblocks that he's hit along the way. This book came onto my radar about a year ago when it was pre release and past. Katie made a really great choice picking it up. I'm glad I read it. I'm happy to tell you about it today. It gave me a lot of huggable, comforting joy and that was exactly what I needed. So this is the in between bookstore by Edward Underhill.

B (31:47)

Good. I love getting something light. I'm also going to bring something that brought me a ton of joy and was just so much fun. This is a book called Royal Gambit by Daniel o'. Malley. Ooh, I loved this book. This is five stars for me. Here's the setup. This new book takes us back into the bonkers world of the Shick.

A (32:08)

Hey.

B (32:08)

Britain's secret supernatural agency that handles all the weird stuff that goes bump in the night that all of us mortals don't know about. Our lead character is Lady Alexandra Alix Mondegreen, who has spent her entire life as a pawn. Like, that's her rank in the Chekay, with zero control over her destiny. She was born. Alex was born with the ability to shatter bones with a single touch. She automatically became property of the Sheke when her magical talents were discovered. But here's where it gets interesting. Her aristocratic bloodline meant that from the time she was really little, she was the perfect person to embed with the royal family of England. So she had been forced since childhood to befriend Princess Louise, but she and Alex can't stand each other now. So when the Prince of Wales, Louise's dad, drops dead under strange and, we know, supernatural circumstances, Alex suddenly finds herself juggling dual identities as this member of the Chekay, trying to solve a royal assassination. And the new crown princess's lady in waiting, who has to smile through garden parties and keep Princess Louise safe from magical murder attempts. All right, I'm going to lead with the most important thing here. I was legitimately upset when this book was over. I was actually mad. Not because the ending was bad, because it was perfect, but because I spent five days roughly, completely immersed in this bonkers world, and every single paragraph had me hooked. That's such a specific kind of reading high for me when you're not skimming through the boring bits to get to the good stuff, because there are no boring bits. That's what Daniel o' Malley delivers here. If you've heard me gush, and you probably have, about the Rook, which is the first book in this world, and Stiletto, and I've done that multiple times. You already know that this series, this World, is a favorite of mine. O' Malley has created something so inventive and completely different from anything El on the shelves, but it's also eminently readable. There's not a bunch of world building or trying to keep track of 17 different magic systems. You're just having an absolute blast watching people who can turn themselves into trees try to also navigate British bureaucracy and royal protocol. It's like if the tainted cup had a baby with the crown and that baby was raised by Ricky Gervais. That's my. The best way for me to describe it, but. And also the tree thing. This is an example of one of the things I love about this world. These. The talents that these people have are so weird. But then the Chekay finds ingenious ways to use them. Like the tree guy, the guy who looks completely normal. He's actually also an American. He's from the American version of the Chekay. Because in America, apparently we also have all this weird stuff happening. This tree guy is super useful as a crime scene investigator because, like, his roots can dig down and then talk to the roots of the other trees to see what they saw. And then he becomes like a guy again. So, yes, the Men in Black comparisons will always follow the series around. Right? It's fair enough. We've got a secret government agency dealing with supernatural threats, all while the general public knows nothing but where Men in Black goes for the easy laugh, like alien goo body humor. Daniel o' Malley is operating on a completely different level. The humor here is smart, but what really gets me is how o' Malley manages to collide the supernatural with the utterly mundane. You've got people who can make their pores ooze blood on command, like that's a talent somebody has. But they also have to fill out expense reports. Or there's a senior government official who can transform into a stegosaurus but has to attend budget meetings. The royal family is being picked off by paranormal means, but everyone still has to follow proper protocol for funeral arrangements. It's that juxtaposition that kept me laughing and also kept me genuinely invested in this mystery. If you loved the Rook, this is a must read. Though you can definitely jump in here with the Royal Gambit, even if you've never read anything else. That's why I keep not wanting to use the word series, because this is not as much a series as a world, and you can dip in in a lot of places. Although if you ask me, and you're not, but I'm going to tell you anyway, okay, if you asked me the best way to enjoy this, I would say read the Rook and then read this one, because that one two punch would give you the best entry into the world. But this one is so good, the mystery is so good here I think you can skip stiletto because this one is just. It takes all the goodness from the Rook, which is so good, and it brings in the royal elements, the crown and the queen and all of that. I just loved it so much. So again, you've got a genre mashup.

A (37:25)

If that.

B (37:25)

If you love that, like with the Tainted cup, you're gonna love this. If you love Supernatural Investigations, like Ben Eranovitch's Rivers of London series, you're gonna like this. This is Royal Gambit by Daniel o'. Malley. Five huge glittering stars for me, I loved this book.

A (37:44)

It sounds so good. I. I really love the Brook when I read it, and I did not read Stiletto, so. Yeah.

B (37:52)

So, so funny, Katie. It is so funny. Like, I giggled all the way through it. It's just. But it's like, that really sharp, right?

A (38:03)

Humor. It's not, like, cheap shots. Yeah. Yeah.

B (38:05)

And it's not banter. It's just, like, really, Daniel o' Malley's just really smart and really imaginative and really funny. It's a good combination for me.

A (38:14)

Yes. I just read another Mary Roach book, and it was not my favorite of hers, but it. But it's that kind of humor where she's like, I'm very smart and you are smart reading this. And also, like, let's definitely poke fun because, like, what in the heck is this idea? This is a little crazy, right? Like, so. I love that. Yeah.

B (38:33)

So, so good. All right, Katie, let's talk a little bit in our deep dive today about a topic that is near and dear to both of our hearts, and I think to probably a lot of people who are listening, and that is if you want to. And not every trip do you want to. But if you're going on a trip to a place where you want to buy books, where you get to maybe visit some stores that you've heard a lot about or you've always wanted to visit, or a country where you can get books that we aren't getting here, what are the best ways to do that? So I just did this on my trip. Like I said, Betsy and I just spent 11 days in London and then in Edinburgh, Scotland, both cities that have fantastic bookstores and also all those UK covers and UK editions that are so hard to resist. So. And you just came back from a road trip, which is. Which presents its own positives and drawbacks when you're.

A (39:31)

When you're definitely traveling.

B (39:33)

Right. So when I said to you, hey, let's talk about how to buy books when you travel, what was your first thought about that? Like, did you. We were like, oh, no, that's interesting to me.

A (39:42)

Oh, of course. And I actually. I made a little bit of a face. Like, not a judgy face, but just a little bit of a face because I don't have a poker face. When you said, well, you might travel and not want to buy books. And I was like, I don't. Who are those people?

B (39:55)

No, there are those people.

A (39:57)

I know they exist, but I don't.

B (39:58)

Think there are people who. People who do most of their reading on Kindle, for example.

A (40:03)

True.

B (40:03)

Right. Like, who aren't investing in a bunch of, you know, hey, you know, I don't want to out one of my bestie besties in the whole world, but Roxanna doesn't buy a whole lot of books when she travels.

A (40:13)

She's like, I own less than 10 books total or some insane number. I can't. It's amazing to me because. Because that's not my life. I don't. I don't do that. I do love to travel and I do love to read. And when I started thinking about this deep dive, I thought about how the books are one of my favorite souvenirs for traveling. I usually buy a magnet if we go a certain place. Right. If we go to the San Diego Zoo, I'm going to get a magnet because I like to be able to visually see all these fun places we've been. But I am not buying toys and T shirts and shot glasses. I am buying books. When it comes to. I want to remember this trip later. So that's how I rejourney back to wherever I went on that adventure.

B (40:59)

Right, Right, exactly. And same for me. And also, you know, part of the reason when Betsy and I planned this trip, because we had two years ago, we went to London and then we went to the Cotswolds. When we planned this trip, we were like, we need to plan a few days at the beginning of the trip before we go to Edinburgh. We need to plan a few days back in London and we stay made specifically in Covent Gardens this time, which brought us really close. We were around the corner from Cecil Court, which is this place with a lot of different kinds of bookstores. We were around the corner from the Waterstones. Like we could walk there in three minutes.

A (41:36)

Yes.

B (41:37)

So we positioned ourselves like we were two tube stops away from Daunt. Like, we positioned ourselves to be able to really prioritize book buying on this trip. But before we went, like, like I. For pre planning. Yes. I knew some of the stores in London that I wanted to go to again, but in Edinburgh, I didn't know for sure. So for me, I use TikTok for this. I don't know about for you, but for me, travel planning, I don't do a ton of TikTok. Like, TikTok is not my go to social media platform, but for this kind of thing, I Find it really useful because the algorithm very quickly cottons on to what it is that you need. So I was being served up best bookstores in Edinburgh really quickly, and it helped me to figure out what are the must do's. And then are there some kind of more under the radar ones that we wanted? And we found some of those, which was super helpful.

A (42:29)

Yes. I started for this most recent trip, I started with the indie press list, bookstore list as our. Because you were guide, right.

B (42:39)

You were going in the United States, and so that was a great place to start.

A (42:43)

Yes. And I basically said, okay, if I know these two endpoints, how can I make this drive the most bookstore focused of, you know, of all the states in between, and hitting the ones that really mattered to me in between, which was very fun for me. When we did our trip to London and Scotland exactly two years ago, which was very. It was great for me. And it was also very hard for me to be like, look, Meredith is here. And then I'd go to Time Hop and be like, oh, my gosh, two days ago I was right there. Or exactly two years ago today I was doing the opposite. Train ride or whatever. It was like I was with you and not. I was very in my head about your trip because it exactly matched our trip. I did the same thing. We had a spot to stay. And then I started looking for not just bookstores, but the big ones and the under the radar ones. Like, okay, well, if there's something walking distance from here, what are people saying about that one? Is that worth visiting? Or is it a hole in the wall that nobody needs to like? It's all used and waterlogged or whatever. So really, using Google Maps is usually where I go, but then it does. It infiltrates your algorithm. So then you end up with. Instagram is giving me reels. Facebook is like, oh, I thought you were only into diy. Here's some fun bookstore reels. And I'm like, cool. Yes. I love that.

B (44:05)

Yeah. No, and I'm glad that you brought that up, because for this trip, we used the heck out of Google Maps. So we had a shared Google Map for the trip. And a couple of weeks before the trip, we just both started putting things on it, like favoriting things, which didn't necessarily mean that we were going to get to every single one of those destinations, but it gave us a sense of, okay, we want to prioritize this particular part of town on this day. And we can kind of start here and then we can, oh, then we can hit this we can hit this. We can hit this. Because we had favorited those things, it just helped us not to say again, we didn't get to every single thing, but it kept us from missing things that we were. That would be very conveniently grouped together. So Google Map, a shared Google map was very, very key, I think, to this trip being as complete as it felt.

A (44:56)

Yeah, it shows you, like, density, saturation, density of the things you want to do in certain areas. So you can plan around those. I like that. So one of the things that always comes up, whether you're in a car or traveling via a suitcase on an airplane, is the space issue. Meredith, let's talk a little bit about that. Because when you buy a lot of books anywhere, you have a space issue at home, but you got to get them there first. Right?

B (45:21)

Right.

A (45:21)

So how did you guys manage that for this trip? Right.

B (45:25)

So this trip, it was a little bit different than. And I was a little bit concerned. And in fact, I was right that because of the way that things have change, changed in the last two years, two years ago, I was able to. In most of the books that we visited, most of the bookstores that we visited, I was able. I would just, as soon as I got there, I would just go up to the front and say, hey, I'm traveling from the US If I buy a bunch of stuff today, can you guys just ship it home for me? And in 2023, I think all stores except one had said, yes, absolutely. So by the time I got home, I had boxes of books waiting for me from this, you know, and so then I could just buy with reckless abandon, you know, whatever your budget, it enables you to do this time, not so much. So it wasn't that they weren't willing to do it, but the pricing had changed so much for overseas that it really. In fact, I didn't end up shipping anything. And so what it ended up being was it was so much cheaper for me to check an extra bag. Thank you. To like, to literally ship an entire suitcase of books via the. You know, the airline than it ever would have been, not only through the bookstore, but even if I had taken it, for example, because another thing you can do is you can go to the post office or sometimes if you're staying in a nice enough hotel, they'll have a concierge service where they can do that too. So you kind of just have to ask before, like when you get to your destination, or you can call it or, you know, email in advance, but kind of check out what Your options are. What we ended up doing was checking an extra bag. Both Betsy and I did that, which was really helpful. Also, this didn't happen on this trip because Betsy and I are both big book buyers. But if you are traveling, for example, if I had been traveling with Jackson, I could have used the book mule strategy.

A (47:16)

Yes, that's the one that I used.

B (47:18)

He could have checked an extra bag, too. So then I could have had two bags of books. So, you know, use what you can, but you do have to be. But it is something you have to figure out before you start buying books. Otherwise you could be in a real pickle.

A (47:34)

It could bite you in the. Behind in the patoot. Yeah.

B (47:37)

Because seriously, it was going to be hundreds of dollars to ship like 12 or 15 books.

A (47:43)

Yeah, yeah. It just gets totally unmanageable. Yeah. So on our way out for that big trip, when I took all four kids and Jason and I both went to London and Glasgow and Fort William and Edinburgh and bought books everywhere, including children, I then the final night was doing book Jenga in all the different suitcases. So I was laying picture books flat and then putting clothes on top and then chapter books on top of them to kind of sandwich. And nobody ended up with, you know, 50 pounds worth of books because I had six different suitcases that I could put them into. So everybody's suitcases were heavier than when we left, but nobody went overweight, and they were all rolling, so it was fine. They could pull, you know, 7 to 10 extra pounds worth of books, and it wasn't going to hurt any of my children. So they all did just fine. The road trip, it became a space issue on the opposite end of things because it didn't feel like we had a space issue because I have a large vehicle. But it turns out they just. They still take up a lot of space. So we did end up having to do some creative Jenga with seats down. And then can we fit space things in between the back of a seat and the one that's down and behind it? Or what about the ice chest? When we no longer need it now it can hold all books. Like, we were doing a lot of things to fit things and make sure that I could still see out the back window of my car and I could get us all home safely.

B (49:10)

Right, so. Exactly. So you have to think about this in advance for sure. I will tell you. And one of the things that we will link in the show notes is we. Betsy actually found a bag that we really, really like. It's called the Foldy, and they have a lot of different colors. It's not very expensive, but it is big enough that it holds a lot of books. But it also, like, we just, it, it folds down really small. So you pack it in your suitcase on the way there in your other suitcase, and it doesn't really take up any extra room. It folds really flat. But then you already have that. So that on your way back, you just, you've got that and then you just check that and it's kind of got some. We like, we wrapped our books on the outside of these travel bags with a few extra clothes, like, just to make sure that they were really safe. But we'll link to that in the show notes because I just think the foldy is a really good, good answer for this particular kind of problem.

A (50:07)

Yeah, I love that. Yes. Collapsible bags, always and forever. How about. Okay, when you are, we're not going to say running amok, but when you're enjoying a bookstore somewhere that you don't usually live, how do you choose what to buy? Do we evaluate covers, editions, sprayed edges, signed editions? Or is it just like, you know, I'm going to let the bookish spirits guide me and we're just going to see what happens.

B (50:31)

Right, Exactly. So you have to make decisions based on what is right for you and your book buying and for your library building. Right. And so for me this time, I wanted to prioritize books that I wouldn't necessarily find at home. So discoverability is a really big thing for me. Obviously. I, you guys know, I read a ton of crime fiction and I just find a lot of crime fiction in the UK that is really up my alley.

A (50:56)

Yeah.

B (50:56)

Like, it's, it's a great place for me to sit to discover new authors that are simply not, not either over here at all or aren't making waves over, like, aren't coming to me over here. So I'm prioritizing those kind. That kind of discoverability. I'm also prioritizing either signed copies or different versions or really pretty versions of books that either I still want to read or of my most beloved books. Right. Like, if I find a really beautiful version of, you know, a title that I absolutely loved, I'm gonna grab it. There's, you know, anniversary editions, you know, like I said, UK editions we've talked.

A (51:33)

About, like north woods by Daniel Mason having a much prettier UK cover. Or the Rook by Daniel o'. Malley. Maybe that one is exceptional over there for whatever reason. Right, so. Right.

B (51:44)

Yeah, exactly. So Those kinds of things. And on this trip we found even more than two years ago, there were so many beautiful and different versions of books.

A (51:54)

Yes.

B (51:55)

You know, and so that they're. There's. They really, really know how to like, I had to pare down. So then what I ended up doing, so my strategy was I would go in and just run amok. And this is what I do in the library and it's what I do in bookstores here. Run amok. Then we would go find a table somewhere where we could take all of our books and we would just spend a bunch of time doing a book flight, checking Goodreads ratings, talking to each other about. Because we, Betsy and I would go off separately and then so then we would like, kind of like talk to each other about books. Like, I've read that one. I think you'd really like it. You know, those kinds of things. And then I'd pare way down. So most of the time I'd pare down by 70% from what I just kind of an initial grab had been. I probably would have bought more if I hadn't had to have the space constraints in mind. But then I was thinking about my foldy and thinking I need to fit in there. So I tried to be judicious, try to be wise.

A (52:54)

Yes. And I do that too. I call it like getting to know the books. Even if I don't take 20 minutes and go sit at a table, I will carry a lot of books around with me and like, commune with them. I don't know. I'm not really a woo woo person, but in a bookstore, I turn into a different beast entirely. So I will kind of shuffle them through my hands, touch them, read the back, read the flap copy, talk to other readers, or go stand in that section and see if anybody else is picking up that book, if they're interested in it and kind of just get a vibe check on it in a different way than it's. That's why we love bookstores. Right. Because you can't do this on even bookshop.org, we love bookshop.org you can't do it there. You can't be with the book and decide if you're right for each other on this, like, bookish first date situation.

B (53:44)

No, you're right. And I mean, I do really weird things in bookstores, but especially in books. For some reason, some of these bookstores just are so vibey. And like we went to Topping and Co. And you. And you would comment, we went to Topping & Co. And I saw, like. And they have those really high shelves. And first of all, they call their crime fiction Detective fiction.

A (54:06)

Yes.

B (54:06)

As God intended. Like, so that's what it says on the genre labels. But they have those ladders.

A (54:13)

Yes.

B (54:13)

And I. And I climbed. I saw something up really high and I climbed up. I, like, looked around and I'm like, if Betsy saw me up here, she would definitely yell at me for being up like, this, this, this. But I was like, are you talk like there's a book up there? I'm like, you want me to find you don't. Like, I literally am talking out loud like I'm a crazy person in a bookstore.

A (54:32)

Yeah. Topic & Co. Is its own absolute vibe. Anyway.

B (54:35)

Yeah. Like, and that's in Edinburgh. Yeah. And it's. I. I absolutely loved it.

A (54:40)

That, like, dusky blue as their signature color. Yeah. Just everything about that story, the warm wood all through, like, the floors, the shelves, and then those rolling ladders. My kids, we were just in heaven. We loved that store. Right.

B (54:52)

Plus, you look out windows and you can see castles in the different. In the distance.

A (54:56)

You're like, well, that's there. Look at that clock. Look at that.

B (55:00)

Look at that palace.

A (55:01)

Look at that. Like, yeah, gorgeous.

B (55:03)

Yeah, it's. It's totally amazing. So, yeah, discoverability. You do have this feeling when you're traveling, whether it's, you know, far flung or just a couple of hours away, that, like, this is my only opportunity to be in the store. I want to. I want to bring to me the best possible books that are a fit for me. And I think there are bookish energies that help draw books. You know that this is a place to use bookish serendipity. If you knock a book over, you have to buy it.

A (55:30)

Yep, yep. You gotta visit with each other. Right.

B (55:32)

That's the rule. If you knock a book over, you have to buy it. That's the bookish energy trying to find you, like tapping you on the shoulder.

A (55:40)

Okay, I've got one more question for you, Meredith. So you come home, you've got. But let's say. Let's say 30. We're just going to put a number on it. It can be wrong. 30 new books that, A, you got to figure out where to put them in your house, and B, how do you remember that they came from this trip? Are you putting a post it note? Are you writing inside the COVID What's happening to those books as you put them away? Yeah.

B (56:01)

So two things. So whenever I do what I call processing my books.

A (56:05)

So, like, A librarian. Yeah, exactly.

B (56:07)

Where I shelve my books, I do put a post it that says like the month and year that I bought it. And I usually try to make a note about the store that bought it in. When I buy things in the UK or when I go to a bookstore anywhere, I always try to say, hey, if you have store bookmarks that you could put one in each book, that would be super helpful to me so that I won't forget where I got it. And the vast majority of stores everywhere have those and are more than happy to to do that. So those are the two strategies that I use. What do you do? How do you remember?

A (56:40)

Yes, that is my. My very large collection of books. Marks almost entirely comes from that second strategy where I will say, yeah, put one in every single book because that is my favorite thing to open it however long later whenever that book refinds me and find that bookmark and then get that happy shot of joy remembering that bookstore trip and picking out that book and feeling like we were made for each other the first time. Yeah, it's just a delight.

B (57:06)

It is in fact just, you know, from that 2023 trip. Two years later I just picked up and read a book that I'm going to bring next to the next episode that I had bought on that trip. And it was, you know, it was so like I. All of a sudden I was just remembering the store that I was in and you know, all of that. But yeah, you have to have a strategy. It is if you loved to buy books, it's, you know, one of our favorite things. But doing a little bit of pre planning will always help you to have the best possible experience. The other thing I told Betsy right at the beginning and we kind of promised each other no tote bags.

A (57:42)

Ah, right.

B (57:43)

This is. Tote bags are a problem that I have when I go to bookstores. They always have such cute ones. When I even freaking go to fabled that I go to my like my adopted indie bookstore. The bookstore that I go to the most I will I have to tell myself not to get. So we, we kept each other. I think Betsy may have bought one, but it was just because she needed a bag to hold the books that she was buying. And it was super cute, but no tote. So I try to make like some rules to keep myself grounded.

A (58:10)

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good idea. I try to prioritize paperbacks over hardbacks whenever I can. It's a, it's a weight thing and it's also a Physical space thing. Both.

B (58:22)

Yeah.

A (58:23)

That's a win on both sides. I. It's not a hard and fast rule. I am allowed to break it as often as I feel like it, but that's a guiding principle for me. I try to grab things in paperback if I can.

B (58:33)

One of the things I love about shopping in the UK is that so many of their paperbacks have French flaps.

A (58:39)

Yes.

B (58:40)

Which is one of my favorite things in a book.

A (58:42)

Right.

B (58:43)

So those are the flaps that are kind of like attached to the front.

A (58:47)

Cover, but it's like a hardback flap. Yeah. Right.

B (58:50)

It's a paperback, but it folds in and it has. You can kind of look and read about the book on that inside flap. So that's a French flap.

A (58:56)

Yes.

B (58:56)

So I love that. So, all right, Katie, that's a little bit about how we do our thinking through the books that we're gonna buy. Of course we want to hear what you guys do. We want to hear how you get your books home. Any tricks that we have not thought of, please share when we do this, this Instagram post. Because, you know, we're all traveling so, so much. Let's. Let's help each other do it the best way we can. All right, Katie, what is your wish at the fountain this week?

A (59:25)

All right, Meredith. This week I am wishing for a real life excuse note due to reading weather. So my life is very full. I told you, my weekend has been ridiculous. I'm so grateful, though. I'm grateful for my people and the place I live and the things I get to do. But today it's raining a lot because of Hurricane Priscilla in the Gulf of Mexico. And my preference, my personal joy, would have been to sit on the couch all day under a blanket, drinking coffee or tea, eating only snacks, no real meals allowed, and just letting the rain pour down outside. The went outside, preferably not the leaky windows that are leaking inside my house, just outside being gorgeous. We've already gotten more than three and a half inches today, but the world keeps on spinning. And I still had to do all the things I signed up to do, the ones I put on my schedule like I plan to. But I'd like to open my weather app and have it just write me an excuse note like the one Betsy made for us on Instagram. It would say due to acts of weather gods, Katie is required to sit on the couch with a hot beverage all day long. Please and thank you. Especially in Arizona, we get rain so infrequently, frequently. It just feels like a waste. Not to capitalize on it. I do plan to spend the rest of my day today, but it's already almost 4 o'. Clock. I feel like I've wasted at least 8 hours of good reading weather.

B (60:39)

I know, but it is the absolute best. So yes, I join you in that wish. Make sure if you can prioritize reading when you get that weather, definitely do it. Use it as an excuse. All right. My wish is that you would prioritize getting to a bookstore that that you have always wanted to go to, whether it's near your house or far go to a bookstore you've never been to before. We just of course, went across the world to go to several bookstores, but a few weeks before that, Betsy and I went to the Painted Porch Bookshop, which was only a little over an hour away from us, but we had never been there and there was a lot of discovery to be had there. So that's my wish, that no matter where you are, there's a bookstore that is available to you, that you've always thought I should should go there, I should, I should just check it out. Take the time now to get it on your calendar and check it out and use it to discover that you wouldn't have discovered discover a book in a different way. That's my wish.

A (61:39)

Cosine.

B (61:40)

All right. Okay, that is it for this week. As a reminder, here's where you can connect with us. You can find me, I'm Meredith at meredithmonday Schwartz on Instagram and you can.

A (61:49)

Find me Katie at Notes on Bookmarks on Instagram. Our show is produced and edited every week by Megan Putovong Evans and you can find her on Instagram at Most of megansreads full show notes with the.

B (62:01)

Title of every book we mention in the episode and timestamps so you can zoom right to where we talked about. It can be found in our show notes and on our website@currentlyreadingpodcast.com you can.

A (62:12)

Also follow the show @currentlyreading podcast on Instagram or email us pictures, ideas, all the things@currentlyreading podcastmail.com and if you want.

B (62:22)

More of this kind of content, join us as a book bookish friend. For only $5 a month on Patreon, you get a ton more bookish content. You also get a ton of community and you keep this show commercial free. You can also rate and review us on Apple podcasts and shout us out on social media. Every one of those things helps us to find our perfect audience.

A (62:45)

Yes, bookish friends are the best friends. Thank you for helping us grow and get closer to our goals.

B (62:51)

All right. Until next week, may your coffee be.

A (62:53)

Hot and your book be unputdownable.

B (62:55)

Happy reading, Katie.

A (62:57)

Happy reading, Meredith.