B (2:53)

This was the feature that you created for me. And then it has been so useful. I've been using it all year in my spreadsheet and it has been so useful to me to see where I'm really close to Goodreads and where I'm really far off and try to make some guesses as to what those patterns mean. So I'm excited that everyone's going to have access to that now.

A (3:16)

Yes. And then another one that we that I created in the middle of the year for people who requested it that now everybody will get to access is multiple selections on time settings and location settings. Those have been widely requested and it makes a lot of sense. We have lots of multiple timeline things. We have lots of multiple location stories. So being able to select multiple for both of those is going to be huge.

B (3:39)

Yes.

A (3:40)

We are adding an additional tab where you can track your own top 10 lists from previous years. And that is going to be a little heavier lift for 2026. But then you'll be able to just copy and paste every year and have that long reading history of what was working for you each year of your reading life.

B (3:58)

I'm looking forward to this. I mean, not only this, obviously makes it easy for you and I to do a couple of things that we do over and over again every year, but in general, having that information there and being able to refer back to it really easily. And then, of course, it makes it really easy for you. If you are a person who wants to use AI for different things, that information is gold. Having it all in one place, easy to get. That's fantastic.

A (4:22)

Absolutely. And then one of my last little highlights that I really want to pull out is that there's a couple more small visual elements that we're adding. One is that we've had a spicy scale for a while. I've added a chili pepper that matches the spicy scale. So if you gave something five peppers, you get to have five peppers on your spreadsheet. And next year we will also have a murder scale. How terrifying, how gory, how murdery was that book. And some knives that match it so that you can see visually each of those items for each book. I'm very excited about it.

B (4:57)

The knives are out. It is going to be so good. I'M really, I'm really, really glad. And we're, we're going to be talking and all things murderful about our new scary scale and how that's going to work. And you know, I think that's something that I know people have asked us for for many years and Elizabeth and I are going to be really glad to talk about that.

A (5:18)

Yes, it's, you know, and it's that and so much more. I love doing these tours in December every year where I get to show off all the new features to the bookish friends. I answer questions live. I show them every single thing I've added in every tab so they really have a feel for what's going on behind the scenes. And, and those only happen in December so that everybody is ready to hit the ground running January 1st. So if this all sounds like your definition of nerdy goodness, or even if you're a baby spreadsheet user and you just want to dip your toe in the water and see how it works, those tours include that information as well. We would love to have you join us in December before the tours start happening so that you can be part of that information right when it rolls out and you can start 2026 as your best reading year yet.

B (6:08)

Yes, we've talked so many times about how important or how useful it can be to you as a reader to track your reading this way. I want to just put in my annual plug that one of the best things about the spreadsheet is that you can track so many things, but more than that, you can also track very few things. Katie has made it very easy to close off the columns, make them so that you to hide the columns that you aren't interested in tracking. When I first started a few years ago with this version of the tracker, I kept it really simple. I think I tracked maybe five or six things and then each year I started tracking more and more as I found it so easy to use. So I just want to say if you love a very robust spreadsheet, this is for you. But also so many people find it useful because it is so customizable to each person. You don't have to know a lot about Google Sheets or Excel or any of that to make it work really exactly the way that you want it to be.

A (7:11)

Yes, it's so fun to make sure that this spreadsheet works exactly how it should for every reader on that nerdiness spectrum. So if you want in, you can join us over on Patreon at just five bucks a month gets you all this spreadsheet goodness and so much more great stuff. Again, that's@patreon.com currentlyreading podcast.

B (7:31)

Yeah, they get the spreadsheet and then they get all the content. We're not even talking about any of the content that they get.

A (7:36)

I know. And like, it's so great.

B (7:38)

The community very focused on the spreadsheet right now because it is just such.

A (7:42)

An exciting spreadsheet season. It is. That's what's happening right now. All right, that is our mischief managed. Let's get into our episode. We'll let you know at the top here, y', all that our deep dive is very on trend right now. It's very thematic. It's called Changed for the Better. And we are going to be talking about our reading relationship with each other over the years and how that has impacted both Meredith on me and me on Meredith in our reading lives. But first we'll start the way we always do with our bookish moments of the week. Meredith, what is yours? All right.

B (8:16)

I said in my bite size intro that readers are have the best ideas and so I had to because I love all things Advent. I love an advent calendar. I love. We talked last week about 25 days, which is a book that you can read, you know, one chapter every day as it leads up to Christmas. I love all that countdown stuff. Well, we had in the bookish Friends group, which is our Facebook group, where like 2,500 of the 3,000 of our bookish friends join us. It's a hoppin community. Well, one of the posts that happened this last week caught our eye and the eye of a lot of other people. It was from a bookish friend named Marina who says, okay, not to brag, but I just came up with the best idea. I have been wanting a bookish advent calendar for myself, but all of the ones I've seen are little bookish trinkets. Cute, but for someone who hates clutter, it's not really my vibe. So I just asked ChatGPT to give me 12 individual prompts for various books to pull off my shelves. Like, for example, the book with the most blue on the COVID or the book that reminds you of the first winter snow. I'll put these prompts into individual envelopes, keeping them hidden from myself, and open one each day leading up to Christmas. The 12 books that I pull based on the prompts will be the 12 books that I'm committing to reading in 2026. Eek. I'm excited, Katie. I just thought this was a really Good idea, because it's perfect for Marina. But it's so easy for this to be used in a million different ways. You really could create your own little 12 days Christmas adventure and also knock some of the books off your Kindle or your tbr. Your actual physical bookshelf really easily.

A (10:05)

Yes, definitely. I like that. It's also very easy to keep it secret from yourself, even if you made the chatgpt ask about it. Right. So grab a girlfriend and you guys trade, and you each get to fill each other's envelopes or whatever it is. Grab a child, a spouse, whoever is around you, and just say, can you put these into 12 different envelopes for me so I don't see them? Like, it's just so such a simple and inexpensive way to enjoy your reading life. I think it's brilliant.

B (10:34)

Well, I think it's brilliant, too. And I was thinking, like, for example, I was thinking, oh, you know what? It would be kind of fun. I mean, I don't think we're going to do this, but I would, like, I'm going to go to Betsy's tonight, and I would think it would be fun to be like, okay, Betsy, what if you and I did the same thing, but we actually pulled books for each other? So, like, there were some prompts, and then we go to each other's bookshelves and. And then, like, match it to the prompt and then wrap them up for each other. Like, that would be. That would be pretty fun too.

A (11:03)

Yeah, I like that Katie and I could do that.

B (11:05)

Yeah, right. Like, if you had someone close by. So there's a lot of ways that you could customize doing this kind of thing, and I just think it's a fun way to make the holiday season bookish, and it's just a nice little treat for ourselves.

A (11:18)

And who doesn't need to treat themselves? Exactly. Nobody. That's the answer. All right, my bookish moment. We're gonna see how this goes. So I was browsing Facebook Marketplace this week, like you do, and I found a guy selling wood.

B (11:33)

And you clicked on it?

A (11:34)

Of course. Why wouldn't you click on the wood specifically? He had live edge wood just two miles away from me. So that's when instead of, like, the lumber that you get from Lowe's or Home Depot that's been cut to a very specific size, the bark of the tree is still attached, so it follows the. The curves of the actual natural structure that was out in nature. It's a really cool building technique that people use, but there is only specific Things you can do with it. Well, I was like, well, I need to go check this out. And this was a legit adult man selling actual wood from trees. I wasn't being scammed or catfished or anything weird. So get yalls minds out of the gutter. I made an appointment to come over and see his wood pile and dig around in the stacks. I know. I just. I had so much fun with this. And I was able to find this really beautiful olive wood filled with burls, and it comes in a thick slab. And y', all, these are the terms. Okay? Just bear with me. We're going to be adults. Meredith. Yes. Take a breath.

B (12:38)

I'm here with you.

A (12:39)

So this thicker slab of wood I will be able to slice in half, and I will have two mated pieces, and I'm going to turn them into these beautiful bookends. Right. So they're going to be. And everybody knows what olive wood looks like, even if you don't think you do. It's very burled. It has a lot of, like, swarf, pearls in the grain. So they're just going to be really beautiful bookends. And once they're cut and sanded and lacquered, they're going to be so gorgeous on my bookshelves. I'm very excited. So my woodworking hobby, which I got from my dad, and we like to play in the wood shop together, and he's teaching me so many fun things about how to, like, cut wood well and then polish it, sand it nicely. It's turning into a bookish thing as well, and that makes me happy. So getting new wood for new bookends is my bookish moment.

B (13:25)

That is. That is wonderful. I think that that is such a great thing that you and your dad do together. And what a feeling of accomplishment Nick Offerman is doing has, like, a whole, like, show he's taken on the road about a new book he's written related to woodworking. And, like, they do some woodworking on stage like him and, like, a guy that he worked. Anyway, so little Nick Offerman vibes there. Always a good thing.

A (13:48)

Well, he and Amy Poehler also had that show. It was called. It was something about crafting. Yeah. Making it. I think it was making it.

B (13:56)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved that show.

A (13:57)

Oh, my gosh. I loved that show, too. And I hated that it was only one season, but I could watch those episodes over and over again. Yeah, yeah. That, like, crafty woodshop vibe. I'm all about it. I love it.

B (14:08)

So good. So good.

A (14:09)

All right. Let's get into our current reads. Meredith, let's talk about some books. What are we 15 minutes in? We?

B (14:15)

Yes. I have three books I cannot wait to talk about and two of them are five stars and I think are going to be on my top 10 of the year. So I needed to bring them this week so that they are not new to everybody when we get to the end of the year. And maybe these books are on that list. The first one is called north sun or the Voyage of the Whale Ship Esther by Ethan Rutherford. Katie, have you ever heard of this book?

A (14:40)

No.

B (14:40)

Here's the setup. It's. It's 1878 and the American whaling industry is really. It's gasping for breath. It's almost done. Captain Arnold Lovejoy set sail from New Bedford on the whaling ship the Esther with what seems like a straightforward two pronged mission. One, hunt whatever whales are left in the Northern Pacific. And then, number two, push into the brutal Chukchi Sea to find a lost captain and retrieve a mysterious treasure from his sunken ship. But as the Esther sails deeper into Arctic waters, the voyage stops being about extraction and profit and becomes something much stranger. Okay, here's the deal with this book. This is a book that you really want to go into as blind as possible. So I've tried to keep my setup very minimal. I got the recommendation, the push, if you will, from Liz Hein, and of course I always trust her when it comes to big awards. Bait, literary fiction, that's what this is. And she knows what she's talking about. She also knows what I love. So when she said this is the book, the National Book Award nominee that I think you will love the most. I downloaded it, no questions asked, and I am asking you to do the same. Don't look up a lot of plot summaries, don't read detailed reviews, just know this much. It's set, of course, during those waning days in of the whaling industry. And it has serious vibes of a book and a miniseries called the Terror. It was an incredible show on AMD sea. I absolutely loved it. If you know that this might get you interested, here's what makes this book so incredibly effective. It has almost perfect pacing all the way through. There's this sense of dreaminess, this literary meandering quality where you're just drifting through sparse, lyrical descriptions of Arctic ice and endless sea. And then right when you really need it, author Rutherford hits you with something really plotty, something full of potential for action and often calamity. It's this perfect rhythm and of lull and intensity that keeps you off balance in the best way, not unlike their journey on the ocean. By the way, the structure of the novel is genius too. Each chapter is composed of very short, sharply delineated scenes that feel like fragments of memory or dreams, and they stack together to build this world that is defined by rituals, cruelty, and a constant sense of impending violence. Again, it reminded me so much of the terror, that same gritty look at life at sea, but with a creepy twist. If you've always been fascinated by Moby Dick but knew you weren't going to read it because it was way too long, and also you like your books dark and strange, I have found the book for you. What Rutherford does with atmosphere and mood is also remarkable. We've got this arctic setting that becomes its own character. We've got the brilliant white expanse, the northern lights. Everything is frozen and feels both beautiful and deeply creepy. The crew of the Esther is full of nasty pieces of work too, men who are in it for their own gain. And Rutherford never flinches from showing you the exploitation and moral ambiguity at the heart of this industry. There's a mythic quality that creeps in there too, especially in the second half that pushes the book into that territory that's part maritime adventure, part environmental allegory, part haunting horror story. Emphasis on horror. A few more things that you need to know before you decide if this book is for you. First of all, it will not be surprising to you, but I do want to say there is a lot of animal violence in this book. I'm talking about the brutal realities of whaling and what the industry did to these creatures. It's not gratuitous, it's historically accurate and thematically necessary, but it is intense. If you have a hard time with that kind of content, don't go anywhere near this book. There are also, I will say, plenty of other trigger warnings. So if you're sensitive at all, do some extra care for yourself and do a little bit of research on trigger warnings for this book. Because I've been asked, I do also want to say I'm not sure about the audio version on this one. The print book uses quick shifts in narrative perspective and makes profligate use of italics to illustrate those switches. The chapters are short, many times just one to three paragraphs, and they're composed of sharply delineated scenes that stack together to form this portrait of life aboard the ship. So I don't honestly know if it would translate well on audio. If you're an audio only reader, I would strongly suggest giving it a sample before first committing in that format. Maybe it's great. I just don't know. There's no doubt that this is a National Book Award finalist for a very good reason. It's an astonishing debut novel that looks unsparingly at the cost of environmental exploitation and predation. It's sparse and lyrical and brutal and atmospheric, and you need to know what you're getting into. This is dark, often violent, and it is thematically heavy. If you're game for that, then this is one of the most impressive books I've read this year. It was such a WTF did I just read? Book. But also, I think it's going to be on my top 10. This is north sun or the Voyage of the Whaleship Esther by Ethan Rutherford.

A (20:16)

Interesting. I do love. I don't know why, because, like, as an industry, I hate whaling. I hate the idea of it, but I love that look into it. Right. It has regularly worked for me.

B (20:30)

Yeah, exactly. For me, too. For reasons I don't understand. Also, I really like a book of horror on a boat. Like, there's just so many places that things can happen or hide well, and.

A (20:45)

You always feel off kilter in a boat. Right. Like, you're always kind of off balance. So then to add a horror element to that. Oh, right.

B (20:53)

And there's these elements of, like, what is this thing that we're searching for? Why do we care? There's some. There's places where he just so brilliantly makes you go, wait, did. Is that what that just said? And it is. And then you go. And you're like, oh, my gosh. What? What is happening? It was so good, Katie. It was so good.

A (21:14)

It sounds.

B (21:14)

But really dark and really violent.

A (21:16)

Yeah. Yay. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I have a first book also. I even have a second and third book. Good. I know. We're very excited. My first book this week is Wrong Place, Wrong time by Gillian McAllister. I bought a copy of this probably at least two years ago, and it just sat on the shelf, but I'm happy to report I finally picked it up. This is my first novel from Gillian McAllister. So I was going totally off vibes and hazy memories I had of the description from when I bought it, which is, I believe, when you talked me into it, Meredith. But a lot of people were reading it when it first came out. Here's the setup for those few people like me who haven't read it yet. Jen is waiting for her son Todd to get home on the morning of Halloween and He's later than she expected, but he's also 18, so she's waiting up for him because she's a mom, and that's what we do. When she sees him through the front window, she's appalled to watch her young adult son stab a stranger. She has no idea who this man is or why Todd would do such a thing. But she lives out the rest of the night into the morning, with Todd being arrested and taken into custody. She falls asleep, exhausted and bereft. Her little boy is being charged with murder. But when she wakes up, it's the day before. The previous day, she hasn't purchased the pumpkins for the porch. Todd is at home making plans for the evening. Nothing terrible has happened yet. Maybe she has the chance to stop it. However, all the work she does over the course of that day to understand her son and his actions is undone that night. When she again wakes up the day before, it's now two days to Halloween, and no one else remembers October 30th or the actions she took and the questions she was asking. Each morning, Gen wakes up a bit further back in the past, and she becomes convinced that she's traveling back to something since this started with Tom's arrest. Maybe if she can find the catalyst, it could be days, weeks, months, or even years before she'll be able to prevent that tragedy from occurring. This was exceptional, right? This is such a great way to deliver a mystery slash thriller. First of all, I regularly love time travel. It is a catnip trope for me, and this one worked so well for me because we never get that butterfly effect question of, like, well, if you change something, then what else is going to. Because she keeps going backwards so she can tell anybody anything. She's like, hey, husband, I'm time traveling backwards. And he's like, okay. Also, you might be needing antipsychotics. And then the next day, he's like, hey, honey, how's it going? Like, it just doesn't affect her. But what, What? What? What is happening? I loved that she got rid of all those questions by only traveling backward. Didn't matter if she told everyone what was about to happen that next day, because they wouldn't remember it the morning before because it hadn't happened yet. And the mystery thriller of it works so well because, oh my God, this would send me spiraling to live my life again backward. I would completely feel like I was losing it. Totally transfixed by the ideas behind this one. And then the actual mystery at the center of what happened to Todd this 18 year old man, boy child. Right. And why he turned into this person that Jen doesn't even recognize. A young man who would stab someone to death. What's happening in her family as a whole to make her child make a decision like that? What do we not know? How do we find it out? If you can't go to sleep and keep working on it the next day, she can't even write herself a note for the next day because it disappears. I am so glad I finally picked this up. I did read it right around Halloween and it was perfect timing to start it on that like Halloween Eve time frame. It captivated me completely from beginning to end. I could not stop listening. And this one I did do on audio, but it worked even though we were traveling backward in time. The audio narrator makes it very clear exactly how far she has traveled backward, exactly how far we are from that Halloween Eve in the future. And it didn't have any problem seeding itself into my brain that way. So that worked out perfectly. I loved this. I thought it was so good. I'm so glad I finally read it. This is Wrong Place, Wrong time by Gillian McAllister.

B (25:23)

Yeah, that's a good one. And I did. I listened to that too. And I do agree that it's really good on audio.

A (25:29)

Yeah, that can be really hard. Yeah. Like time travel on audio. It's. That's a crapshoot.

B (25:33)

Yeah, it's very, very readable. It's very. It's one of those kind of perfect. I don't think you'd call it. Would you call it a thriller? I mean, it's a time travel thriller. I guess that would be the way to call it.

A (25:44)

It's a. Yeah, it's a thriller in that all the action is happening concurrently and she's like unwrapping it like those terrible Christmas presents that are like a box inside a box inside a box inside a bag inside a box inside. That person has to just unwrap and then they get like a $50 bill. Yeah. And they did all the work, you know. Right.

B (26:02)

It's like, this is good, except it's.

A (26:04)

A great little treasure in there. And you're like, holy crap, a diamond. What happened? This is amazing.

B (26:09)

And the whole time you're wanting to do all that unwrapping, so. Yeah, that's a good one. That's an oldie but a goodie. I'm glad that that finally made it to the top of your tbr.

A (26:17)

Me too. Good job. Past Katie.

B (26:19)

That was one brought to us by Elizabeth Barnhill. It was a favorite of hers. All right, so my second one is a work of poetry. I continue in my morning reads to sprinkle in some poetry. And this one was one that I really, really liked. And I think a lot of you will fall in love with this poet. This is a book called and the World Spins Anyway by Georgie Jones. Have you ever heard of Georgie Jones?

A (26:44)

No.

B (26:46)

You plan to go find her on Instagram because you will love her so. And the World Spins Anyway is her debut poetry collection. It reads like very honest conversations with your millennial best friend. It's a modern collection. You need more Instagram experience than literature class experience to really get it. But Georgie writes with wit and warmth and so much British charm about the beautiful disaster that is modern existence. She somehow makes all that chaos feel like home, which is excellent. So I was just scrolling Instagram one day and completely accidentally came across this British poet reading her work. I stopped scrolling and started rabbit holing on her stuff, and I ended up spending like an hour and a half just going through all of her posts. There's something about Georgie that is immediately magnetic. She's got this sweet, unassuming presence that kind of makes you lean in. Her delivery is gentle and kind of has, like a young girl quality to it. Not in a weird way, but like a very light, innocent. There's like an innocence about it that lulls you into thinking that you're just going to have a lovely time with some nice words about feelings. You're comfortable, you're relaxed. You are unprepared. Because then, bam. She hits you with a line that sears straight into the center of your soul as she talks in this collection about dating and friendship and why platonic love is underrated, which, you know, I feel so strongly about. She talks about dating sites and disastrous first dates and kisses that make up for everything. Georgie, especially nails work that talks about the joys and struggles that we can have as we inhabit the bodies that we live in. It must be said that she is writing from the Hot Mess Express point of view. She's chronicling, chronicling the chaos and the uncertainty of. Of living a life of I have no idea what I'm doing and everyone else seems to have gotten a manual that I didn't get. Now, a lot of times that doesn't really work for me, but here it really, really does. She's so charming and breathtakingly real that you can't help but fall for her completely. I wanted to read one poem of hers because it gives you such a Perfect taste of her style. And I think if you like this, you're really going to want to seek her out, both in this collection and on Instagram again. She's a great follow. This one is called Worst Case Scenario. I read a book in which Achilles said to Patroclus, I would recognize you in total darkness were you mute and I deaf. I would recognize you in another lifetime entirely, in different bodies, different times. And I would love you in all of this until the very last star in the sky burnt out into oblivion. That's nice, isn't it? But to be honest, I'd settle for doing laundry with you. We could take it in turns to be bamboozled by a fitted sheet, swear as the elasticized corners spring free. For the 14th time, I wouldn't mind sitting with you in January's gray, promising not to leave taxes until the last minute next year, knowing full well we are creatures of habit, of 11th hour panic. So that likely won't change. I'd like there to be plenty of days where you settle your scaffolding, shoulders behind behind my tired sighs. I'd like to memorize the way you linger at the window when the sky is wide and quiet. And in the mornings when our hands are busy with small rituals, yours in the sink washing up last night's couldn't quite be bothered and mine gluing breakfast together, even in the silence of routine, will build something extraordinary. So while I am certain we are destined for greater adventure than this, if our worst case scenario culminates in coffee always brewing and music always on, well, I think that sounds quite nice, actually.

A (30:43)

Isn't that lovely? Are you okay? Yeah. Yeah, I liked that.

B (30:50)

Yeah. Yeah, she's. She's really. She's really, really good. And it's just very accessible. It feels like poetry that you would write yourself if you had a gift for poetry.

A (31:02)

Right?

B (31:02)

Like, it feels like just on the other side of accessible. So I love it. Is Georgie Jones the particular. The poet of my particular soul that I've been searching for? No. We're at really different places in our lives, but here's what I know for sure. If I was 30, maybe 40, navigating the particular brand of beautiful disaster that is early adulthood in the 2000s, she would absolutely, without question be that poet for me. And even from where I sit now, at a different life stage with different struggles, I love her endlessly. Her voice matters. This collection matters. If you've ever felt like you're failing on that Instagram version of life, this book is for you. This is poetry for a brand new generation, and I love it. I can't wait to watch her career unfold. This is and the World Spins Anyway by Georgie Jones. And you can find her reading Worst Case Scenario on her Instagram. And you absolutely should, because I do not do it justice compared to what she does with that poem.

A (32:02)

Yes. Yes. I love it. I briefly googled her while you were talking, and weirdly this week, somebody sent me a reel of her. I just didn't know her name was Georgie Jones. So I have seen her for the first time this week, maybe two days before we're recording this, which is so strange.

B (32:21)

Yeah, she's very addictive. Like I. I. Like I said, I just. Once you start listening to her, you just want to listen to more and more and more and more.

A (32:30)

Yeah. Because I can. Once I saw her face, I was like, oh, that's the one where the guy came out to her and he said that I can make a poem in 20 seconds with an app. Yeah. And that's not the kind of poetry I want. And I like. The whole entire thing spun out in my head as soon as I saw her face. So I can see how she could get under your skin in that way.

B (32:48)

Yeah, she's very good.

A (32:49)

Love it. Okay, that was already a little tender for me, so we're gonna see how this goes. Okay. I plan to talk about Awake by Jen Hatmaker.

B (32:58)

Okay.

A (32:59)

Yes. Which I probably wouldn't have put if I knew Meredith was gonna make me cry with her. It's fine. It's fine. Let's see how this goes. Okay, Jen, let's see if I can handle this. So I have read pretty much all the Jen Hatmaker that exists out there, except for her very specific Bible study related titles. I have not done those. I have been a longtime fan of her from her book Seven Onward. Seven is about kind of minimalism and getting rid of the excess in our lives. Her brand of humor just hits right for me. Her vulnerability and openness are tender and inviting, and I love her vibe. That's really what it comes down to. And I knew that this, her new book, Awake, was gonna hit me straight in the feels, because, of course, Jen is not writing about her marriage or her big, happy family. She's writing about her divorce, her very public divorce in 2020, and the way her life was upended and changed overnight when she overheard a conversation she wasn't meant to hear. So we start with that overheard conversation, the one she wasn't meant to hear. We learn about the information overload that came afterward. We learn about the slow distance and decline that came before, and Jen is still gracious and vulnerable and inviting, even when she's hurting. In this book, she doesn't give us a tell all scoop about her divorce from her husband of two decades. In fact, she never even says his name. Instead, she peels back the layers on how she survived it. Who pulled her through? Spoiler alert. The answer for her is the same as it is for me. It's her family and her friends, her siblings and her parents, her feisty and delightful children, the girlfriends who made her space feel like a home again. This is a story of her divorce. But just like how the title isn't divorced, it isn't really about that. It's actually a love letter to her people While I expected to cry reading this, and even to cry talking about it, because of my own place in life, I didn't expect to cry for the reasons that I did. I bought this book on paper, but I listened to it in what I call a tandem read where I am listening at the same time that the words are in front of my eyes. And that's a good thing because there were times I couldn't breathe from crying so hard. So it's a damn good thing I was not relying only on my eyeballs to look at the words in front of me. Readers of this book will understand that when I talk about her dad and the way he loves his daughter, it absolutely undid me because the texts her dad sends her, which he reads aloud in the audio just in case you needed your heartstrings pulled another way, could have come from my own dad. The way her mom bolsters her spirit and has this can do attitude that could be my mom. Jen Hatmaker and I have plenty of overlap and plenty of differences between us, but what we definitely have in common is huge. It's a big, messy, sarcastic action forward family of blood relatives and chosen family. We are both utterly surrounded by the people who said they'd be there for us no matter what. And perhaps more importantly, we both had to hit a place of utter desperation to finally be able to ask for help. I am so grateful that Jen Hatmaker took her time and opened up her veins to write this memoir. As I said, I've loved her books in the past, so this was not an outlier in that sense, but it also was. It's more vulnerable, more raw, more open, and more of a light that shines inward and outward at the same time. Jen here is more than she's ever been. And I'm so glad she shared that moreness with us. Five stars. But my review says the tears I cried were infinity and the stars I'd give if I could would also be infinity. So there you go. I knew this was going to be a little bit messy, but I'm okay with it. I'm so glad this book exists and that it's exactly there for the people who need it when they need to read it. This is Awake by Jen Hatmaker.

B (36:55)

Yeah, it's really, really, really good. And I did not expect to be as emotionally affected by it when I read it. And when we went to see her in person, I did not expect that I was going to be brought to tears in a. You know, because she had that whole group up on stage with her, talking each one of them about their own experiences of it. And yeah, it was, it was really, you know, but it is. The book itself is so such a great story of resilience and a. It's a swing up book.

A (37:23)

It really is. It really, really is.

B (37:26)

Okay. My third book is one that is definitely going to be a potential for my best book of the year. I don't know exactly if it is, but it's going to be top three for sure. It is a book that doesn't come out until March of next year, but I do my top 10 based on the year I read it, not the year it comes out. So this is a book called Lady Tremaine by Rachel Hochauser. Again, it's out March 3, 2026, but here's the setup. Lady Etheldrada Tremaine is twice widowed, fiercely protective, and desperately trying to cling on to her social respectability. She is not the cartoonish villain you remember from the Cinderella fairy tale, because that's what this is, right? This is a Cinderella retelling. Lady Tremaine is raising two daughters and a stepdaughter in a crumbling manner. Armed with nothing but her dead husband's title and the very real understanding that marriage might be her daughter's only shot at security. When a royal ball promises to change everything, Ethel fights for invitations for all three girls, only to watch the wrong daughter. Cat Prince's eye. But this isn't just a villain Gets Redeemed story. As an engagement to the future king unfolds with unsettling speed, Ethel discovers something rotten at the heart of the royal family, forcing her to make an impossible the security that she's clawed after for years, or protecting the stepdaughter who has rejected her at every turn alright. As soon as Elizabeth Barnhill heard about this book, she immediately called me and said, have I got the book for you? And of course she was absolutely right. This is a fierce falcon of a novel. And I started it curious, but also a little wary because after all, how many times can we retell Cinderella? But here's where I ended up. Completely gutted in the best possible way. The last line of this book had me high kicking, but also seriously asking, do I have enough room on my arms for another tattoo?

A (39:34)

You do. There's always room for another tattoo.

B (39:36)

Meredith this book reminded me so much of Clytemnestra by Costanza Casadi. That same unflinching look at what it means to be a woman whose story has been told by everyone but herself. That same exploration of feminine rage and maternal devotion as inseparable forces. What makes this book sing is that Hockhauser isn't interested in simply flipping the script. She's asking us to sit with the uncomfortable truth that motherhood, marriage and survival have always been more complicated than any fairy tale could contain. This is so much this book is so much about what it is to be a mother, so much about what it is to be a stepmother trying to grow love from infertile ground when the person you're meant to mother doesn't want your mothering. And it's so much about what it is to be a woman in middle age, watching your own options narrow while you're still expected to perform with grace and gratitude. The brilliance here is how Rachel Hockhauser excavates the emotional reality beneath the fairy tale structure. What does it actually feel like to be the unwanted mother figure? What does desperation look like when it's dressed up in respectability and satin dresses and bows? If you loved the fierce, complicated mothers in books like Clytemnestra, or if you're drawn to retellings that dig into that uncomfortable space between villain and victim, this is for you. If you want a book that takes fairy tale logic and exposes all the ways that it has failed women for centuries, this book is for you. The prose is gorgeous literary with without being precious, accessible but never simplistic. This is Hockhauser's debut novel, which honestly feels impossible given how assured and sophisticated the writing is. One thing you should know the last third of this book gets darker and more viscerally violent than you might expect from a fairy tale retelling. We're talking eyes dangling from sockets, real horror level imagery. For me, that element brought absolute joy. I loved that Hawkhouser was willing to go there to show the violence that has always been lurking under the surface of this story. But your mileage may vary, so I wanted to make sure to give you that heads up. This is not a cozy fairy tale vibe all the way through. I can't promise this book won't wreck you a little. It did me, but it wrecked me in that way that makes you want to press it into the hands of every strong woman you know and say, read this. I see you in this. This is Lady Tremaine by Rachel Hockhauser.

A (42:16)

Sounds like I'll be pre ordering.

B (42:18)

Yes, definitely. For sure. Pre order. And again, I always want to say pre order from fabled if you can, because we did hear about this from Elizabeth Barnhill.

A (42:26)

I love it. Okay, my third book this week is a reread, which I don't usually do.

B (42:33)

Oh yeah.

A (42:34)

But I did it here so I am going to talk about A Wish in the Dark by Christina Suntornvat. This is a favorite of mine from a few years back and this time when I reread it, I got to share it with my kiddos, which made it all the more special. A Wish in the Dark is a Thai inspired retelling also of Les Miserables by Victor Hugo. Our main character, Pong, is born in a Thai prison in a dystopian society where fire is feared after the great fire of many years ago. So all sources of light and heat and energy are controlled by the Governor, as he's the only one who can make the orbs that contain the light. His motto is Light shines on the worthy. So society is stratified into the haves and have nots. Those who can afford it buy beautiful golden orbs of light and powerful green jade motors and exceptional red light to cook their meals. And it's efficient and fast and beautiful. Those who are scraping by are only able to purchase small violet orbs which give off barely enough light to see by. Pong knows that he will be released from prison when he turns 13. As the law of the land says, the child pays his mother's debts and his mother died in prison. But even as that day draws closer, now only a year away, he's desperate for freedom. So he escapes about a year early and after nearly drowning, finds sanctuary at a temple of monks deep in the countryside. There he builds a new life, always wondering about his best friend Sam Kit, whom he left behind. And he's haunted by the prison tattoo on his wrist marking him as less than as an escapee. He's also Relentlessly pursued by Ngok, the prison warden's daughter, who finds herself displacing her need for justice onto his shoulders. When Pong makes his way back into the city and reconnects with his best friend Sam Kit, they find themselves on a path to to revolution. He's a little reluctant. With Noak hot on their heels, does light shine on the worthy or just the wealthy? Where's the distinction between what is law and what's actually justice? Oh, this book is beautiful. It's so gorgeous. I first read it three years ago and I deeply disliked the audiobook, so I was excited to read it again. I loved the story, but the way especially Samkit was narrated in the audiobook made me want to tear off my ears. This time because I was reading it aloud. All those pieces I hated from the audiobook got twisted into my own read aloud instead, and I got to make it exactly what I wanted to hear. It worked. My kids were invested all the way through. They knew that when we finished this story, we were going to see Les Miserables live on stage for the first time for them as well. So they paid attention. They asked about connections between the characters, and we had fantastic conversations together about what is right and what is good. Perhaps more interestingly, we discussed the ways that power and justice tend to be intertwined in our heads, whereas we know goodness is distinct from power. So where is the difference there? Having four kiddos of different ages all take something deeply impactful from this book shows what a phenomenal storyteller Christina Suntornvat is. I was thrilled to share this story that I've loved already for years with my kiddos after I loved it so much myself, and I really wanted them to fall for it, and they did. I first talked about it on the Big show in episode 45 of season four, but I'm really hopeful that those who didn't pick it up then are encouraged to do so now. I promise it's worth it. Just don't do it on audio. This is a Wish in the Dark by Christina Suntornvat.

B (46:12)

Oh, that one sounds so good.

A (46:14)

It's so good. It's like. It's like perfect middle grade. It's perfect middle grade.

B (46:20)

Excellent. There's nothing better than a great A really juicy read aloud to share with your kids.

A (46:27)

Yes, and this is one of those that they were like, oh, Mommy needs a hug. I'm like, no. I just love this book so much. It's fine. I'm gonna keep reading. I'm not crying for bad things. It's fine. It's so good. I loved it. All right, those were our six current reads, which now we get to get into our deep dive, which came from listener Christie. Here's what she said. This totally feels like bookish serendipity. Of course, as soon as Meredith mentioned her brother, I thought of him being wrong. This is in reference to the episode she was listening to at the time she sent the email. Then Meredith mentioned that sometimes he changes his mind. That sent me thinking through all the ways that you have changed. You, Meredith and Katie have changed over the past five years. So I propose a deep dive a la Wicked. How you have been changed by your co host for good. Your reading, Meredith and Katie made me do it. Your outlook on reading or podcasting, a kind of look back. Deep dive. Ugh. It's a good one. When we got this email. Yeah, I know. When we got this email, I went and made our episode spreadsheet 25 rows longer just so I could slot it for this week, knowing that Wicked for Good had just entered the theaters and I would have already seen it. I would have already been right back in my, like, Wicked feels about it.

B (47:44)

So you've seen it already?

A (47:46)

Yes.

B (47:46)

Did you like it?

A (47:47)

I loved it so much. Okay, good. Good. There are strong opinions flying around on the Internet about the two new songs that were added because there are additional songs that are not in the Broadway production that were added to the second half of the movie because it doesn't have the bangers, it doesn't have Defying Gravity, it doesn't have Popular. Some of those ones that people really love. Right. What is this feeling, dancing through life? Like, I mean, part one is just full of fantastic songs.

B (48:13)

Yeah.

A (48:14)

So they added two new songs to the second half, and one of them especially just. Oh, it hit me so hard in the feels. I can't even talk about it. It's so good. But the other one, I'm fine. Like, whatever. That one's fine. No place like Home, really. Okay.

B (48:30)

Is that what it's called?

A (48:31)

Yes.

B (48:33)

And Change for the Better. Is that what it's called?

A (48:35)

Because I knew. Yes. It's called For Good.

B (48:37)

Oh, it's called For Good.

A (48:38)

Okay. Yes. That's one of the best she's referencing here. But yeah, it's so.

B (48:43)

It's just one of the best songs ever.

A (48:46)

It really, really is. And I cannot listen to that song. I can't. I can't think about the lyrics to that song. Right, Right.

B (48:55)

Well, let's. Let's think about this in terms of the question that she asked. And it was funny because as soon as I read it, I was like, oh, I can definitely think of several things that us doing what we've been doing together for so long have really, really changed for me. And I think the first thing that came up in my mind was there's no question that when we started the podcast, I completely did not understand why anybody would ever do a buddy read. So talking with you for so long, because it was a while before I did a buddy read ever, which was with. With Roxanna.

A (49:33)

Yeah.

B (49:34)

And that, you know, the. The buddy read that launched a huge new friendship. But that was in. That was two years into doing the show. So I had been listening to you talk about buddy reading and all the reasons why one might want to do it before I jumped in myself and then found that it's one of my favorite things ever. You know, like, it's just. It's added so much to my reading life, all the different buddy reads that I do, that I'm really, really grateful that this was something that you brought into my life and into the lives of all, you know, all of our listeners who weren't already doing it.

A (50:04)

That's fun. All right. The first thing that I thought of, I'm gonna put last, but my other first thing that I thought of is actual reading taste that I. I would always say that I had a pretty broad reading wheelhouse, but being in conversation with you and having books highlighted that maybe I would have passed over has made it broader, and that a. Because you're really good at talking all of us into books. This has been a problem from day one. But I can trace back, of course, my love of horror more to talking to you about it. But even something like picking up something literary and being willing to let your reading challenge you or ask more of you in depth is from conversations that we've had together, like how to start a book. Well, how to finish a book. Well, how to let. Let a book be what it is instead of what you want it to be. And I think I was used to reading whatever, but not letting the books guide me in the way that I have become. So it's more likely that I'll get to the end of the book and realize that five years ago, Katie or 10 years ago, Katie probably would have hated this experience. And instead, I've gotten something from it that I wouldn't have if I hadn't been in conversation with Meredith for eight years now.

B (51:27)

Yeah, I think that that's where my. My degree in English really comes into play because it really taught me that sometimes a book can be really difficult and also very much worth my time and to kind of trust the process and let the book lead you. So, yeah, I think that that comes into play there.

A (51:44)

Yeah, definitely.

B (51:45)

Okay. My. And this was a. This was a really, really big one, Katie. And this took more than two years. I want to say this was maybe four years before. Before I fully took. Took the leap. But you finally convinced me that maybe meeting authors was not the horrible thing.

A (52:03)

I feel like this is six years.

B (52:05)

Six years maybe maybe because for so long this has been such a joy for you. And I've been like, I don't ever want. I don't ever want this to happen ever, ever, ever. But over the last couple of years, I've had more opportunity and I've really seen what it is that you enjoy about it. Or not just meeting authors, but even going to festivals or going to conferences where you can hear authors speak. I wasn't really that interested in it before, but you over time have talked about so many different of those experiences that were. That really deepened your love of the works of that author.

A (52:42)

Yeah.

B (52:43)

That finally I decided to start giving it a chance. And now it's one of my favorite things to do. So thank you for that.

A (52:49)

It is really fun to go meet authors. I hope I'm peer pressuring other people in that way, too. Yes. Okay. My second one is. It's almost like an admission of guilt. But I used to say that anyone could have any opinion about any book, but I didn't believe it. I just said it out loud. Right. I thought that my opinion was right and other people were wrong. But the ways that you and I have been able to either subtly or overtly disagree with each other over the years about books we've both read, and maybe one of us loved it or the other one loved it, has been really meaningful to me in the ways that I discuss books with others when we didn't have the same experience. This goes so far that especially over the past year. I mentioned one reread today, but I have reread more over this past year than I have probably in the entire rest of the years of the podcast. And I've been able to manage my own changing self as a reader. And having that different experience instead of thinking, well, past Katie was obviously wrong or future Katie maybe shouldn't be trusted. Like, instead I can say it's okay to have that different experience. And it doesn't mean that one person is wrong about a book or one person is right about it, but it takes that. Give and take that being in relationship, even with a relationship with myself. Right. Like, I, Past Katie, can be right, and current Katie can also be right about a book, and I can be right about loving a book, and you can be right about hating it or disliking it and vice versa. And it doesn't mean anybody is a bad reader or read the wrong book or is wrong in their opinions of it. And I had not internalized that in the way that I outwardly was saying that I had until. Until this. Until now. Right.

B (54:37)

More conversation around it.

A (54:39)

Yeah.

B (54:40)

There's no question that. No. Knowing that it's okay to have a season and that right. Your pet, the past version of you wasn't wrong for the choices they made or the opinions that they held. Nor are you wrong now.

A (54:50)

Yes. Yeah. Because, like, who. Why would people listen to past Katie if she was wrong about all these books that she said she hated and now she loves? Like, what was she thinking?

B (54:59)

I know. We have to. We have to be willing to embrace all of our. Becoming Katie.

A (55:05)

Yes, exactly.

B (55:06)

All right. My third thing, and probably the single biggest place that you have affected me, is a love of bookish community. Now, again, when we started the show, I had no desire whatsoever to be in community at all. And when we had the idea of having the Facebook group, honestly, I was like, but do we have to.

A (55:28)

You were like, you're in charge. I'm probably not even gonna be there.

B (55:31)

Like, really? I would, you know, but you very gently but persistently broke down those walls for me and like, hey, here's how we could do it. You might actually really like it. And it turns out it is absolutely. One of my favorite things about doing the podcast is the. The book, not just the friends that I've made and the. The buddy reads that I've had, but more generally the community of readers that we have in the bookish friends group has brought so much joy into my life, but more importantly, into the lives of so many, many others. And we would not have had that but for you. So there is no question that that's a way that you have changed this entire community for the better.

A (56:13)

For good. We changed for good. Okay. My last one is very personal, but working in partnership with you, Meredith, I am more of me than I ever was before. You as a person, as a partner, as a woman in the world. You're so fiercely supportive and loyal and encouraging that even though it took me years, it took me years to really lean into that side of me, I have grown. I had to learn to care less about the detractors, the. The nasty emails, the people who don't have nice things to say. Right. It used to be that every single negative comment or review or email that we got went straight to my heart and I'd wallow. And then season one and two especially. Poor Meredith had to be teacher and therapist and counselor to me during that time. But now, season eight, it is so easy for me to see how I've grown through that. And beyond that, I did also do therapy for a solid year and a half. So Meredith didn't have to be my only therapist on this. But this was inner work and outer work. I don't want to understate how much it mattered to my journey to have this therapist relationship, but, Meredith, you are the one who started me on this path of valuing myself, my actual physical voice, my opinions, my contributions more. And there are not enough words for how much that changed my life, for how I would not be the person that I am today without you. I have been changed for the better. I would not be Katie Cobb, single mom, doing the thing. I would not be this were it not for you. Well, thank you.

B (57:59)

You give me way too much credit, Katie, because you have done all of that growing and learning and becoming completely on your own. And, you know, I've been really blessed to be able to walk side by side with you. It's wonderful to get to see all those changes. And there have been big changes, you know.

A (58:15)

Yes.

B (58:16)

No question. But you deserve all the credit for making. For making those things happen. And we are lucky to be able to be in partnership in this way and to grow from each other and to learn from each other and to complement each other. And I. It is such a blessing for us as individuals. And then we are always so happy to learn how many of all of you are glad to. That you've been able to listen to it happen over the years, too, which is. Which is. We're really lucky. We're lucky. So thank you, Christy, for such a good deep dive topic. I think that that's really wonderful. It's a great opportunity for us to get to think about how we. How we have changed and how we change each other. And in a great partnership or a great friendship, you are changing each other for good. So really grateful for that.

A (59:06)

Yes, indeed. Okay, let's make some fountain wishes, shall we? What is yours?

B (59:12)

Okay, Katie, this is a weird segue, but my fountain wish, I'm going to keep it super short. But I'm just going to say my fountain wish is that if you have been one of the many, many people who've been so great to DM me and say, hey, please talk more about business stuff, business books. I love it when you talk about your business and how you do business. Thank you to all of you who've said that to me. If you are one of those people, do me a favor and follow me at Monday Next podcast. Because as you saw on my Instagram, my brother and I, Scott Monday and I are doing this new limited edition show called Monday Next and it is all about business. It's not about books. It's about each of us and our experiences running our small to medium sized business and how the things we've learned in the way we do business may be able to help other people running those kinds of businesses. Now, we both are big readers. I'm sure we will be talking about some of the business books that have helped us, affected us in positive ways. But if you are one of those people, I would love it if you would follow over there. We are going to debut on January 5th. We will premiere on January 5th.

A (60:20)

Oh, it's gonna be so good. Yes.

B (60:21)

So that's my wish and I will not be talking about it again on the big show. I'm not gonna be, you know, bringing those two things together a lot. But because a lot of you have reached out to me in that way, I wanted to mention it.

A (60:33)

Yes, do, do go follow Monday Next podcast. And I am always so pleased when the Mondays release a show on Mondays. That makes me so happy.

B (60:44)

I know it will it. We, yeah, we couldn't get around the fact that we're gonna drop episodes on Mondays, which of course this, this show also drops on Mondays.

A (60:52)

Right? It's okay. You're already refreshing your podcast app anyway. You might as well just download both.

B (60:58)

Exactly, exactly. And I do really also thank you to all the people who are like, oh my gosh, is this gonna affect Currently Reading? No, this is not going to affect Currently Reading at all. Currently Reading will always be my first priority in the podcast world.

A (61:12)

Correct. Okay, my wish is a bit more general and we can all wish the same thing. And it's to finish the year strong. Here we are at the beginning of December more than ever before. I'm looking back at 2025 with the spinny eyes emoji. My reading life has been up, down, sideways, backwards, diagonal. I don't even know. I am constantly thinking that whatever great book I read was actually read in 2024 or maybe even 20, 23. Because time is meaningless. And I regularly look at my list of finished books and think, huh, I wonder why I took my hands off the reins here. That weird. Why did I even pick that up right? As we head into this final month of the year, I would like to approach my reading life with more intention and more joy. I want to be able to lean into what's working for me, get back to at least giving star ratings, because even that fell off the rails of the last few months. It's been a mess. And starting and finishing with more intention, which, as I mentioned, is one of those things that Meredith has imbued in me over the years. So really taking my time to start well and finish well with my reading. And that is all encapsulated in finishing the year strong. May it be so. Pink Splash.

B (62:25)

Yes. And also giving ourselves grace. When we have a year or two or three that are all over the place or chaotic for whatever reason, we give ourselves plenty of grace.

A (62:36)

Yes, we do. Although I did binge read the Never King today, finally, and that was a great way to give myself some grace.

B (62:47)

I love that book. I love that book.

A (62:50)

So good.

B (62:51)

I know.

A (62:52)

So good.

B (62:53)

Okay, that is it for this week. As a reminder, here's where you can connect with us. You can find me, I'm Meredith, Meredith Monday Schwartz on Instagram and you can.

A (63:01)

Find me Katie@notesonbookmarks on Instagram. Our show is produced and edited every week by Megan Puttivong Evans. You can find her on Instagram at most of Megan's Reads Full show notes.

B (63:12)

With the title of every book we mentioned in the episode and timestamps so you can zoom right to where we talked about. It can be found in our show notes and on our website@currentlyreading podcast.com.

A (63:24)

You can also follow the show at Currently Reading Podcast on Instagram or email us@currentlyreading podcast gmail.com and if you want.

B (63:32)

More of this kind of content, if you want that reading tracker that we were talking about, join us as a bookish friend for $5 a month on Patreon. You get so much more content. You get so much community thanks to Katie and you keep this show commercial free. You can also of course help us give us an end of year gift by rating and reviewing us on Apple podcasts and shouting us out on social media. Every one of those things helps us to find our perfect audience.

A (64:01)

Yes, bookish friends are the best friends. They might even change you for the better. Thank you for helping us grow and get closer to our goals.

B (64:09)

All right. Until next week, may your coffee be.

A (64:11)

Hot and your book be unputdownable.

B (64:13)

Happy reading, Katie.

A (64:15)

Happy reading, Merida.