Podcast
CXO Bytes
Hosted by The Green Software Foundation · EN
Tech leaders, your balancing act between innovation and sustainability just got a guide with the Green Software Foundation’s latest podcast series, CXO Bytes hosted by Sanjay Podder, Chairperson of the Green Software Foundation.In each episode, we will be joined by industry leaders to explore strategies to green software and how to effectively reduce software’s environmental impacts while fulfilling a drive for innovation and enterprise growth.
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10episodes
Episodes
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Green AI with Empathy with Kerry O’Donnell
Nov 2700:29:29Tap to summarizeHost Sanjay Podder speaks with Kerry O’Donnell, a technology and sustainability leader, about how organizations can embed environmental responsibility into digital transformation and AI adoption. Kerry explains why sustainability must be treated as a value driver, how architecture and procurement can enforce greener decisions, and the importance of measuring IT and AI footprints to manage them effectively. They cover practical tactics such as right-sizing AI models, running workloads where clean energy is available, and demanding transparent carbon data from vendors to ensure innovation supports climate goals rather than undermines them.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInKerry O’Donnell: LinkedIn | WebsiteFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:The incompatibility of AI and decarbonization [09:12]The Cloud and the Climate: Navigating AI-Powered Futures [10:30]Software Carbon Intensity (SCI) Specification [14:31] If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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How Much Energy Does Google’s AI Use? with Cooper Elsworth
Oct 1400:33:06Tap to summarizeHost Sanjay Podder speaks with Cooper Elsworth, Google’s lead for AI and cloud emissions insights, about the real energy, carbon, and water footprint of AI systems. They discuss Google’s groundbreaking research on measuring AI’s environmental impact using empirical data rather than estimates, revealing a comprehensive methodology, with Cooper explaining how Google’s full stack approach, spanning hardware, software, data centers, and clean energy procurement, has cut Gemini’s carbon footprint by 44x in a year. The conversation also explores the balance between energy efficiency and water usage, the role of transparent metrics in driving climate action, and how AI can be scaled sustainably without undermining net-zero goals.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInCooper Elsworth: LinkedIn | WebsiteFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:Measuring the environmental impact of delivering AI at Google Scale [00:53] TPUs improved carbon-efficiency of AI workloads by 3x | Google Cloud Blog [01:45] Measuring the environmental impact of AI inference | Google Cloud Blog [01:52] Green AI Position Paper | GSF [24:48] Software Carbon Intensity (SCI) Specification | GSF [28:13]If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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Sustainability at Scale in the GenAI Era with Dr. Katia Chaban
Aug 2800:46:32Tap to summarizeHost Sanjay Podder speaks with Dr. Katia Chaban about uniting IT and sustainability through circular economy practices. Dr. Chaban shares her journey into sustainable IT, the importance of addressing e-waste and embodied carbon, and the growing challenges posed by AI. She highlights how circular thinking, training, and cross-industry collaboration can help CXOs and technology leaders embed sustainability into IT strategies while reducing costs and environmental impact.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInDr. Katia Chaban: LinkedInFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:Software Carbon Intensity specification [11:02]The Carbon Literacy Project [20:16]Environment Variables - Real Time Cloud with Adrian Cockcroft [30:34]Updating the Materiality of Sustainability Management | NTT DATA Group [34:25]Global Data Centers 2025 Sustainability Report | NTT DATA [40:26]Green Software Practitioner | GSF [45:56]Awesome Green Software | GSF [43:54]The Green Software Foundation Expands Efforts to Incentivize Decarbonization in the Software Industry NTT DATA Announces First Sustainability Report for its Global Data Centers Division Global Data Centers 2025 Sustainability Report | NTT DATA NTT DATA named a Leader by Everest Group in Sustainable IT Services PEAK Matrix® Assessment 2025 report If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPT BELOW:Sanjay Podder: Hello and welcome to CXO Bytes, a podcast brought to you by the Green Software Foundation and dedicated to supporting chiefs of information, technology, sustainability, and AI as they aim to shape a sustainable future through green software. We will uncover the strategies and a big green move that's helped drive results for business and for the planet.I am your host, Sanjay Podder.Welcome to another episode of CXO Bytes, where we bring you unique insights into the world of sustainable IT from the view of the C-Suite. I am your host, Sanjay Podder. Today's guest, Dr. Katia Chaban. Brings over 30 years of global IT leadership, including with NTT Data, EDS, and many others to our current mission, harnessing technology, business and people so that enterprises, ecosystems, and the planet can thrive.Katia, welcome. Excited to dive in.Dr. Katia Chaban: Thank you. I am as excited as well. Appreciate the opportunity.Sanjay Podder: Katia, can you, introduce yourself? You know what? You have been doing and what got you interested in the field of, you know, uniting sustainability and technology? You know, that will be very interesting to know.Dr. Katia Chaban: It's actually a funny story because back in 2021, I had been with NTT Data actually, and back in 2020, 2020 I started my doctorate. During the period of COVID I decided. That I needed to do something right other than be upset about what was happening in the world. And so I started my education, so my doctorate in business. And then in 2021, I decided to actually leave corporate world, leave the IT industry and go and focus on school.And I did that. And as I was trying to research my dissertation, like what is my topic going to be? I mean, it's a big part of that education through your doctorate. I had, I had two choices. I came up with this really interesting concept around acceleration of the digital transformation, right? How do we apply that emergency change behavior from COVID to digital transformations?But then I also had this idea where I kept seeing this sustainability topic, this ESG topic in all of our strategy courses and all my readings and discussions, and then I came across this thing called the Circular Economy, and I'm like, "what is this thing?"And so I started doing research about it. And so I then decided that I wasn't gonna do something that I had already been doing for a very long time.I wanted to restart my brain and focus on something new. And so I did, and I focused on circular economy actually in the consumer goods industry. So not even in IT, but it was with that dissertation, its business impacts, and it turned out to be, you know, planet impacts with the amount of waste that comes from the returns process.So I graduated, I accelerated that schooling and I graduated and I thought, "yay, I am out of IT! I'm gonna go and work in sustainability and save the world. This is awesome." And then I started talking to people and really building that network, from around the world and got to speak at a conference in Thailand where I got to,and then, but I started talking to all my IT friends and some folks are like, "Hey, you know, there might be an opportunity for you in sustainability in IT."I'm like, "what you talking about?" So as an academic now I've started to do the research and I went, oh my goodness, the water, the waste, the emissions, the carbon, what is the rare earth mineral? What is happening? And this, to me, this invisible impact of IT is a massive sustainability, and with the advent of AI and the other, is going to be something that we have to control.And I said, well, I guess I can't get out of IT. I'm gonna go back to IT but I'm going back to IT with a new lens, a new purpose, and a new focus. And that's really to become that advocate, right, that evangelist, and to really drive the practices that we need to have in order not to be the negative impact to the planet, right?We really have to maximize all the positive things that IT can do and at the same time minimizing our harm. So I thought I was outta IT after all those years, but now I'm back, but really energized on the topic itself because it really will have a massive impact.Sanjay Podder: No, absolutely. I agree with you on that. In fact, some of the studies shows that, by 2040, 14% of global greenhouse gas emissions will come from IT. And this data came from a research which is, which predates the rise of generative AI. So we can just imagine how things can be. Before we dive in further, I just wanted to let the audience know that everything we discussed today, will be linked in the show notes below this episode.So, Katia, you know, you are now focused on sustainability and technology and your background research in the area of circularity, right. You know, that is very interesting. How do you see all of this together? Like what are the big opportunities you see when it comes to, say, circularity in the IT context?Right. You know, are people missing it? Because most of the time we talk about, for example, carbon emissions. We talk about usage, operational emissions, right? So, but when we talk about circularity, would be very interested, given you have been an expert in this topic, how do you see those opportunities in the IT context?Dr. Katia Chaban: Yeah, so there's massive opportunities. One, circularity is a way of thinking, right? It's almost a, it's a philosophy and it can be applied to everything. So even when we're talking about software development and the SCI and how we're calculating emissions and what those environmental impacts are, what we're also trying toteach people is that whole lifecycle develop development of keeping things in use for longer, and how do you develop things that are more modular and can be replaced and repaire...
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The Green IT Value Case with Marc Zegveld
Aug 100:37:42Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CXO Bytes, host Sanjay Podder speaks with Marc Zegveld, Managing Director of ICT at TNO, about the competitive value of green IT. Drawing on the recent Green IT Value Case, real-world case studies, and research, they explore how sustainability initiatives can enhance business performance—from cost savings and supply chain clarity to talent attraction and regulatory preparedness. Marc emphasizes that green IT is not just a climate imperative but a strategic differentiator, requiring top-down leadership, grassroots innovation, and effective change management. Together, they discuss how businesses can embed sustainability across operations to thrive in a tech-driven, low-carbon future.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInMarc Zegveld: LinkedIn | WebsiteFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:The Green IT Value Case | TNO [05:57]Awesome Green Software | GSF [23:26]Software Carbon Intensity (SCI) Specification | GSF [23:39]If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPT BELOW:Sanjay Podder: Hello and welcome to CXO Bytes, a podcast brought to you by the Green Software Foundation and dedicated to supporting chiefs of information, technology, sustainability, and AI as they aim to shape a sustainable future through green software. We will uncover the strategies and a big green move that's helped drive results for business and for the planet.I am your host, Sanjay Podder.Marc Zegveld: Hi, Sanjay. Thanks for inviting me on this, on this podcast. I'm really happy to join. I think it's very important and relevant topic what we discussed. My background is, I'm now a two year Managing Director of the Unit Strategy, Policy, ICT at TNO. We are an independent research organization based out of the Netherlands.But we work internationally. We do that for both business to business as well as business to government, both in industry as well as in, for defense. My background before that, I've been working 15 years at IBM. And mainly as a European services leader for the industrial sector.And before that I've been teaching innovation, high tech at the TU Delft, at my own consulting firm. And I used, I was a columnist for the leading financial newspaper in the Netherlands. Now I'm an engineer by background, but also, I got my PhD in business strategy economics. I'm intrigued by competitiveness and what triggers competitiveness. That's, one. And just to elaborate on that a bit, and then we go to the second, is, so competitive is not something which comes easy. You need to stand out, you need to invest, you need to, build.It's based on, most of the time, hard work, technology, but also reputation. It's a lot of elements which you need to bring to the table to gain and sustain sustainability. And I'm pretty convinced that from the green IT movement, this is competitive, by heart. And creating competitiveness by heart. As it's, you're able to combine a reduction of cost if you organize it well. It can bring you more clarity in your complex supply chain.It gives you a better insight in decision making from an investments perspective, but also from a Marceting reputational side it can enhance your position. But only if you're able to combine all these different threats into one specific aspect of competitiveness. And I think that's where I'm intrigued, and that's why, we did this study together with Accenture, and picked out some relevant cases and draw some conclusions.But that's one. There's another step I'm intrigued by, is the following, we hear, we read and hear a lot about, let's say the doomsday clock or whatever. About that we have a small earth that we have a lot of carbon emissions, et cetera. And if you're an optimist, if you're a pessimist, I perfectly, I don't care.But there's something we can do just better, improve, compared on what we do without losing quality of life, quality of on what we do for planet as a whole. Now finding that whole combining with competitiveness, I think that's the strengths which should unique companies, which should unique all other organizations around the globe to see what we can do together. Sanjay Podder: Wonderful. And, you know, one thing that really strikes me here is you started with competitive space, right? Because this is a space where people primarily drive the conversation with concerns around climate change, the greenhouse gas emissions. What you did talk about in the second part,you know, we are, the planetary boundaries. We are a small planet. But typically in my own experience, I have seen that, given the challenging business environment that we are seeing today, the leading this conversation with greenhouse gas emissions is not as appealing to business as competitiveness that you mentioned.Right. And cost efficiencies, operational efficiencies and competitiveness. Many businesses do not see that part today. They can still relate to cost efficiencies, which is equally attractive, improving their bottom line. But competitiveness, you know, is very rare for people thinking that green software, green IT, green cloud, green AI is a competitive differentiator. Right. And I'm glad you started the conversation with competitiveness, which I think it'll be great if you can throw a bit more spotlight, because that to me is the most critical point in this whole conversation for businesses to realize that this is not some altruistic thing they're doing for the planet, but this is for them to survive, to thrive and be ahead of the rest of the competition.So Marc would love to hear a little bit more, and I'm sure you put a lot of it in your Green IT value case. Right. So, you know how have you articulated that? Marc Zegveld: No, it's a fair point, Sanjay. And, absolutely, competitive first.And I'm not sure how you see it, but for me, it's all about change. And change starts with the action. So, internally within companies, you need to fire up you need to ensure that indeed there is action and then competitiveness or the underlaying parameters in boosting competitiveness is key to start that change.And once more companies, more organizations, understand and work that way, I'm convinced, without being altruistic, but I'm convinced that indeed, a greener IT, a greener situation, a healthier planet can be can be started. But if we start that discussion from a planet perspective, we can agree or disagree, but we more have a debate than that what we have in action.And I'm more an action-oriented person. And I think that's what companies, and that's why I like this conversation, as well, Sanjay is, with you, with your team. You're more action-oriented. And I think that's where the trigger and that's where it really starts. So competitiveness, for my end, is a multifaceted aspect. It's about not only attracting capital and of course within, we have more and more sustainable capital providers, it's also about attracting talent, the new kids from school, I would say, attracting them, gen Z and others, it's more difficult to attract them and to keep them.And once you, your part, when you tell your story about green IT, about the relevance of green IT that it's indeed not only strong for their environment, but definitely it's strong for boosting the company. It's strong for their career. It's a relevant aspect on being competitive as well. It is a competitiveness indeed for the full supply chain backward looking, but also forward looking. Most of the supply chains are very complex. If indeed we're able to detangle and create some more clarity also from a sustainability perspective, from a green perspective.In most of the cases we've seen, we're able to reduce cost. We were able to optimize. So there's several aspects, and I think instead of going to the root of only cost cutting, here, competitiveness is a multifaceted aspect, and especially if we're able to create that interplay between these diff...
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Green AI Strategy with Adrian Cockcroft
Jun 19, 202500:47:25Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CXO Bytes, host Sanjay Podder speaks with Adrian Cockcroft, former VP at Amazon and a key figure in cloud computing and green software, about strategies for reducing the environmental impact of AI and cloud infrastructure. Adrian shares insights from his time at AWS, including how internal coordination and visibility helped drive sustainability initiatives. He also discusses the Real-Time Cloud Carbon Standard, the environmental impact of GPUs, the challenges of data transparency, and the promise of digital twins like meGPT in scaling sustainable tech practices.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInAdrian Cockcroft: LinkedInFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:Stern Review - Wikipedia [02:26] OS-Climate [05:55] Amazon Sustainability Data Initiative [06:31]Real Time Energy and Carbon Standard for Cloud Providers | Notion [12:47]Real TIme Cloud | GitHubSoftware Carbon Intensity (SCI) Specification [27:21] Kepler | CNCF [27:49]Measuring Carbon is Not Enough | Adrian Cockcroft [37:15]Virtual Adrian Revisited as meGPT [40:15]Soopra.ai [43:44]OrionX.net Will AWS Have Anything New To Say About Sustainability at re:Invent 2024? (Nope…) | by adrian cockcroft If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPT BELOW:Sanjay Podder: Hello and welcome to CXO Bytes, a podcast brought to you by the Green Software Foundation and dedicated to supporting chiefs of information, technology, sustainability, and AI as they aim to shape a sustainable future through green software. We will uncover the strategies and a big green move that's helped drive results for business and for the planet.I am your host, Sanjay Podder.Hi. Welcome to another episode of CXO Bytes, where we bring you unique insights into the world of sustainable software development from the view of the C-Suite, I am your host, Sanja Poddar. Today we are thrilled to have with this Adrian Cockcroft, a pioneer in cloud computing and a passionate advocate for sustainability and sustainable tech practices.Adrian has been at the forefront of transforming software practices, driving the adoption of greener and more efficient cloud solutions. As a prominent figure in the Green Software Foundation, his insights are invaluable for anyone looking to build scalable and eco-friendly tech infrastructures. Adrian, welcome to the show.Kindly introduce yourself.Adrian Cockcroft: Thank you very much. thanks, Sanjay. I'm Adrian Cockcroft. I'm a consultant and analyst currently at Orionx.net. Happy to be here. I retired from corporate life at Amazon where I was a VP in 2022. And nowadays, I'm an advisor to several companies, from fast flowing global public organizations like Nubank, to emerging startups like NetAI.ai, and various other small things that I dabble in, in the startups space.Sanjay Podder: Wonderful, and we'd like to hear more about all this. Before we dive in here, a reminder that everything we talk about will be linked in the show notes below this episode. Adrian, you have had an illustrious career in cloud computing and sustainability. Could you start by sharing what inspired you to focus on green software and how your journey led you to your involvement with the Green Software Foundation?Adrian Cockcroft: Yeah, we have to go quite a long way back. Somewhere in the early 2000s there was a report, I think it was called the Stern Report, and it was a report on the economic impact of climate change. And around that time we sort of, a big rise in climate denial and a big attack, what I saw it as an attack on science. Good science. I have a physics degree, so I feel my, you know, going back in very long time ago, but I see myself as a scientist and someone that's able to look at a bunch of science and decide, you know, "this makes sense, this doesn't make sense." And what I saw was that the denialist arguments were incoherent.They'd argue different points depending on who they were talking to. It just, it didn't add up. Whereas the, scientific arguments were consistent. And we're worrying, right? We were on a path to a lot of problems, which are happening now. We haven't been addressing them fast enough. So that was the initial thing.It was nothing to do with my work at the time. I was probably at eBay at that time. I joined Netflix soon afterwards. So I was working on migrating, well, working on some personalization things with Netflix and then working on the architecture for migrating Netflix to AWS. And then, we've sort of dived in a little bit, I adopt, had solar panels for 2009, the electric cars since 2011. So sort of put, tried to act as a bit of a, you know, "put your money where your mouth is" as a someone that people could, you know, happy to be the early adopter and figure things out. And then after I joined Amazon in 2016, I could see Amazon was, had actually quite a lot going on that was related to climate and efficient use of energy and things like that. But they weren't really telling that story. And I tried to get involved to see if I could, you know, get involved at any way. And I, it took me a little while to do that. What I found was, you know, I was basically the vice president in charge of the open source program and also out there, acting as sort of a evangelist, explaining to people how you should move to cloud.Doing lots of public speaking, I keyed some of the AWS summits and things, but there was no messaging around sustainability in the standard PR approved corporate messaging, which, you know, that's what you have to follow. So the challenge was how do we get PR to include the messaging in the standard,you know, so that everybody knows what they can say and has the information to back it up? And AWS is a very strict PR policy. It's very managed, and you have that, you have to get them on board and and build all of the right content and get everyone lined up to do that. So that was the challenge.And then, I found that somebody was trying to join a standards group called OS Climate, which is a Linux Foundation organization, as is GSF, and I'd previously been involved in, the work to get AWS to join the, CNCF, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation. I was the initial board member for AWS,representing them at CNCF and the whole Kubernetes AWS and Kubernetes Arena. So I was, I understood how to join a standards body, basically. And so I helped Amazon join OS Climate. And that got me much more involved in the sustainability organization because they, it was open source climate information that was being shared for, mostly for financial analysts to do risk analysis.It's a very specific thing. So you can go look at OS-Climate.org if you want to see what they've been doing since. This would've been in about 2000, around that time. And then that was related to something called the Amazon Sustainability Data Initiative, which is a whole lot of climate related data that is shared for free on AWS, one of the programs that most people hadn't heard of.And eventually, I managed to make an internal move to the sustainability organization because they realized they needed to gather together everything that was going on. What was happening was customers were asking salespeople, what are we doing about sustainability? And they were calling, they were either making ...
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Navigating AI Risks with Noah Broestl
May 13, 202500:36:40Tap to summarizeHost Sanjay Podder brings Noah Broestl, Associate Director of Responsible AI at the Boston Consulting Group, to the stage to explore the rapidly evolving landscape of generative AI and its implications for business leaders. Together, they talk about the requirements of present and future AI governance frameworks, the road to sustainability in AI, and how the emerging risks of Generative AI are shaping the future of responsible technology. Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInNoah Broestl: LinkedIn | WebsiteFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:GenAI Will Fail. Prepare for It. | BCG [10:12] Software Carbon Intensity (SCI) Specification | GSF [25:52] 2024 Green Software Foundation London Summit: | BCG [33:36] Responsible AI | Strategic RAI Implementation | BCG Scale GenAI Responsibly and Confidently with Human + Automated Testing and Evaluation | BCGGitHub - BCG-X-Official/artkit: Automated prompt-based testing and evaluation of Gen AI applications | BCG Analyzing Cultural Representations of Emotions in LLMs through Mixed Emotion Survey | Shiran DudyOECD Artificial Intelligence Review of Germany | AI Accountability in Germany If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPT BELOW:Sanjay Podder: Hello and welcome to CXO Bytes, a podcast brought to you by the Green Software Foundation and dedicated to supporting chiefs of information, technology, sustainability, and AI as they aim to shape a sustainable future through green software. We will uncover the strategies and a big green move that's helped drive results for business and for the planet.I am your host, Sanjay Podder.Welcome to another episode of CXO Bytes, where we bring you unique insights into the world of sustainable software development, from the view of C-Suite. I am your host, Sanjay Podder, and today we have an exciting discussion lined up on the challenges and opportunities of responsible AI. Joining us today is Noah Broestl, partner and associate director of Responsible AI at Boston Consulting Group. With a career spanning Google, the Oxford Artificial Intelligence Society, the US Air Force, and now Boston Consulting Group, Noah has been at the forefront of AI safety, responsible AI, and technology-driven sustainability solutions. At BCG, he helps global business develop robust AI frameworks that balance innovation with responsibility. He is also a steering committee member of the Green Software Foundation, working on initiatives to ensure AI and software development are aligned with sustainability goals. Today we'll explore how AI governance frameworks, sustainability in AI, and emerging risks of generative AI are shaping the future of responsible technology. Noah, welcome to CXO Bytes. Before we get into details, can you please introduce yourself?Noah Broestl: Yeah. Thank you so much, Sanjay. Yeah. My name is Noah Broestl, partner and associate director of Responsible AI at Boston Consulting Group. Super excited to be here today. You know, I think you've covered it pretty well, Sanjay, in my background and the things that I'm working on now. But I've been thinking about, responsibility and technology for well over a decade and been working directly in that space for well over a decade.And so it's been a very exciting journey and as you're going through Oxford Artificial Intelligence Society, US Air Force, you know, a lot of really great memories working in all those spaces. But, you know, at BCG, really focused on helping people who want to be responsible in the deployment of technologynavigate what is effectively one of the most complex landscapes I've ever tried to operate in, which is we have technology laboratories that are producing on a weekly basis, what are, at least claimed to be, breakthrough technologies. We have, you know, research laboratories both academically and industrially that are producing amazing frameworks, amazing tools for responsibility. We have government entities, all over the US and all over the world that are producing guidance for how they should implement these technologies. But bringing all of those things together is really challenging and that's what motivated my move from Google into BCG, was to be closer to helping people. Now that we're seeing these technologies really have impact in organizations and in commercial applications, helping organizations figure out how you navigate any of that, it really does come down to, I think, two pillars, which are how do you govern this inside of organizations, and how do you build responsibility into the product development lifecycle? How do you enable your engineering teams, your product teams, your business teams, to really integrate responsibility as a component of the development lifecycle rather than as some stage gates that happens at the end of development prior to launch?So, very excited for our discussion today. I'm sure we're gonna go a lot of interesting places.Sanjay Podder: I'm really looking forward to learn a lot of things from you, you know, because I see that, you know, your interest in this topic has been for more than a decade, in fact, probably right from your education in Google and, you know, BCG. Just a quick question. You know, why? What got you interested in this?Noah Broestl: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those questions that is, so first off, if you're ever in at a cocktail party or anything like that and someone works in responsible AI and you want to get them excited, ask this exact question. Like, what was the moment in your career that was the turning point for you, where you went into responsible AI and certainly all of the pathways that lead here, I think, are fairly winding. Like, you know, I started as a computer science major. I ended up getting degrees in sociology and history and law and data science and ethics, eventually, but I think I can point to one place in my career where I started asking questions about the intersection between, technology and society.And one of the most gratifying roles that I've ever had was working in abuse response. So working on a major product with over a billion users and thinking about how do we protect these users from vandalism and fraud, how do we make sure that this product is trustworthy and useful to the people that we're providing it to? And you do that for a certain amount of time and you start to ask, I think, questions about why we're doing the things that we're doing, right? So if we take, for example, like for protecting a product leading up to an election, there are a couple of strategies you can take and one of them is just turn off the tap, right?Like, just stop any user content from being posted to the platform. Identify high risk places and say, alright, we're not going to accept any UGC on this. We're going to heavily curate these features in our data set, and we're going to allow them to just sit there and not have any of the other components that you may need for modern platforms that are going to increase freshness of data and make sure you have, you know, the most up-to-date information.So that is one strategy. You can shut everything down and protect it. Another question that you could ask there is, don't we have an obligation as a transnational platform, as a global platform, to amplify the voices of people expressing dissent with elected officials at the time when they have the most agency?I think that's another perspective you could take on this. Right. And if you shut off the tap, are you impacting the way that people are approaching their, yeah, I guess, you know...
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Carbon Accounting with Eric Gertsman
Apr 18, 202500:28:25Tap to summarizeHost Sanjay Podder is joined by Eric Gertsman, Director of Tech Sustainability at Salesforce. They talk about shaping the future of green IT, with Eric sharing his journey from entrepreneur to sustainability leader, his work decarbonizing data centers, and the importance of accurate carbon accounting through Salesforce’s Net Zero Cloud. They explore the AI Energy Score, a new tool developed in collaboration with Hugging Face to benchmark AI model efficiency, and discuss managing water as a critical resource in sustainable operations. Together they highlight how aligning sustainability with core business objectives can drive both environmental impact and business success.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInEric Gertsman: LinkedIn | WebsiteFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:The Business Guide to Carbon Accounting | Salesforce [05:21]Salesforce Joins Technology and Academic Leaders to Unveil AI Energy Score Measuring AI Model Efficiency [10:12]AI Energy Score | Hugging FaceWater | WRI [14:09]Our founders created the 1% Pledge. | Salesforce [22:23]Aligning sustainability with good business practices | Salesforce [23:57]If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPT BELOW:Sanjay Podder: Hello and welcome to CXO Bytes, a podcast brought to you by the Green Software Foundation and dedicated to supporting chiefs of information, technology, sustainability, and AI as they aim to shape a sustainable future through green software. We will uncover the strategies and a big green move that's helped drive results for business and for the planet.I am your host, Sanjay Podder.Welcome to another episode of CXO Bytes, where we bring you unique insights into the world of sustainable software development from the view of the C-Suite. I am your host, Sanjay Poddar. Today's guest brings a rare blend of entrepreneurial spirit, tech savvy, and sustainability leadership. Eric Gertsman is the Director of Technology Sustainability at Salesforce where he's helping shape the future of green IT, from data center planning and infrastructure strategy to carbon accountability. Before Salesforce, Eric co-founded a company that built solar powered artisan travel trailers. Talking about walking the talk. He's also been a passionate advocate for ethical capitalism and the role of business as a platform for change. Eric, welcome to the show. Kindly introduce yourself.Eric Gertsman: Thanks, Sanjay. I appreciate you having me on. Excited to be here. Yes. I'm the Director of Tech Sustainability at Salesforce. As the title indicates, right, I focus on Salesforce's cloud infrastructure, which is a bedrock of the company and it's one of the first companies to embrace this infrastructure as a service model.So it's a very interesting view that the company's had over the years on infrastructure. I focus on decarbonizing our co-location and hyperscale data centers in this wildly changing industry, right? Most recently with the rise of AI. But every decade presents wild new challenges.I also pay attention to our water footprint, our waste footprint, in a number of other areas. So I'm excited to talk to you today.Sanjay Podder: Wonderful. Some great topics we will get insights from you on. So looking forward to this conversation, Eric. So, Eric, let's start with your journey. You have worn many hats, marketing, consulting, startup founder, and now sustainability leader at one of the world's biggest tech companies. What inspired your transition into Green Tech and how did you, you know, select this role and your current work at Salesforce?Eric Gertsman: Well, I think the one word answer would be 'meaning.' I'm not the type of person that checks in and checks out, very well for a paycheck. I really need to focus on things that are positively contributing to humanity. So, way back, almost two decades ago, I thought long and hard about what my career was gonna look like and realized that I wanted to focus on changing the world really from the inside out, incrementally moving organizations towards more sustainable, more efficient, more responsible activities. And you know, obviously over the last 20 years, while that may sound sexy, right, it happens in smaller, seemingly mundane chunks where, you know, it's one spreadsheet at a time or one case study or a meaningful meeting or a data source or something that, you know, you make incremental change and could have pretty wide effects.But yeah, I mean, it, you know, it, I could certainly talk about, for younger people how to do it, but really just to keep pushing and keep learning, whether you're in a company you wanna do intrapreneurship, to do more on the sustainability side and broaden your scope, to have a bigger impact.You know, whether you're in school and you wanna like look at the right classes and projects and case competitions or whatever, you know, keep pushing hard 'cause there's plenty out there to find. And all of that set me up for a path, over the last six years at Salesforce, to have really good impact.And I will say my time here actually has not just been sustainability. In fact, a lot of it has been around data center planning, infrastructure strategy, FinOps. Which has given me a much richer picture of what the company is and what it really means to do sustainability work. So, I'd welcome other people to, you know, bring cross-functional capabilities to the field.Sanjay Podder: No, I think you bring up a very good point on the cross-functional, you know, capabilities because to green the tech, you need to understand the underlying tech very well, right? Because in some sense, the greening of tech is building a tech which is much more efficient, bringing in some of the best practices.So I think all the past experience you had really enables you to now deliver on the promise of green tech, but that's fantastic. I'm sure a lot of our young people are interested to do a career here, so these are great points.So Eric, last year, I remember Salesforce released a Business Guide to Carbon Accounting, which breaks down how companies can measure and reduce their greenhouse gas emission. Why is carbon accounting so central to corporate sustainability today? And how are you implementing these principles inside Salesforce's own infrastructure operations?Eric Gertsman: Yep. Great. Great question and thanks for pointing out that resource. It's a good resource, your listeners can go to our website, download it, and I think you'll be providing links, I think, about some of the stuff we're talking about here, so it's a good one. Yeah, I mean, carbon accounting and the way I see it, right, we've all heard the old ad adage you can't manage what you can't measure.I think that's never truer than it is in sustainability. Proper tracking is the precursor to pretty much everything. All programs aimed at identifying opportunities, implementing action and determining results requires that, and it's vital, right, for any sustainability organization. It's often new stuff. It has been, there's new ways. It's a little bit of art, a little bit of science. We obviously at Salesforce confirm things with third party verification, but sometimes bring in our own sources and our own methodologies and make sure everything is strong and well devised.I also wanna take an opportunity, I think, 'cause a part of, for me, carbon accounting is not just the sort of the back looking after the fact accounting. I think a lot of it is the forward looking target setting, which I think is, a big part of, I think what this, world of, you know, data and data tracking and, sustainability really is.And so, you know, at Salesforce, one of our bigg...
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Responsible AI with Dr. Paul Dongha
Mar 13, 202500:36:41Tap to summarizeCXO Bytes host Sanjay Podder is joined by Dr. Paul Dongha, Head of Responsible AI and AI Strategy at NatWest Group, to discuss the evolving landscape of responsible AI in financial services. With over 30 years of experience in AI and ethical governance, Paul shares insights on balancing AI innovation with integrity, mitigating risks like bias and explainability in banking, and addressing the growing environmental impact of AI. They explore the rise of generative AI, the sustainability challenges of AI energy consumption, and the role of organizations in ensuring AI ethics frameworks include environmental considerations. Tune in for a deep dive into the future of AI governance, sustainability, and responsible innovation in the financial sector.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInDr. Paul Dongha: LinkedIn | Website Find out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:What the data centre and AI boom could mean for the energy sector – Analysis - IEA [17:37]A pro-innovation approach to AI regulation - GOV.UK [25:28]Harnessing the potential of AI in banking | NatWest Group [34:56]If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPT BELOW:Sanjay Podder: Hello and welcome to CXO Bytes, a podcast brought to you by the Green Software Foundation and dedicated to supporting chiefs of information, technology, sustainability, and AI as they aim to shape a sustainable future through green software. We will uncover the strategies and a big green move that's helped drive results for business and for the planet.I am your host, Sanjay Podder.Welcome to CXO Bytes, the podcast where we explore the intersection of technology, sustainability, and AI with leaders who are shaping the future. I am your host Sanjay Podder, and in this episode, we dive deep into the world of responsible and sustainable AI in financial services. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Dr Paul Dongha, head of responsible AI and AI strategy at NatWest Group. With over 30 years of experience in AI, financial services, and ethical governance, Paul has played a pivotal role in ensuring AI is deployed responsibly, balancing innovation with integrity. He has spearheaded AI ethics frameworks at major banks, advised on government AI policy, and even taught Generative AI at Harvard Business School.His expertise spans AI bias mitigation, responsible AI frameworks, regulatory alignment, and environmental impact of AI. In this episode, we will explore how AI is transforming banking, how ethics and risk management can drive innovation, and why sustainable AI is crucial to our digital future. Paul, welcome to CXO Bytes. Let's start by having you introduce yourself to our listeners.Paul Dongha: Great. Hello Sanjay. Thank you for that delightful introduction. Really great to be here. So I'm Dr Paul Donga. I'm head of Responsible AI and AI Strategy at NatWest Banking Group, based here in London. So as part of my role, what do I do? So it's really split into two parts. So as head of Responsible AI, I have a team of dedicated professionals who look at people, process, and technology.They look across the bank and ensure that the right people are involved to manage ethical risks of AI. So that's the people part. The process part is ensuring that the processes and workflows we have both within technical teams and risk management teams are appropriate for managing ethical risks. And as part of the technology part, my team work with model development, machine learning engineers, data scientists, to ensure that we have the right tooling in place in our platforms to mitigate ethical risks.And as part of the strategy, I have a team that lays out the bank's AI strategy for the next three to five years and ensure that across the bank, all teams are working towards implementing the strategy. Sanjay Podder: Great. So, Paul, you know, you have had an incredible career, I can see, from AI research and academia to leading responsible AI at one of the UK's largest banks. Can you share your journey and what inspired you to champion ethical AI in financial services? Paul Dongha: Well, Sanjay, as you say, I've had a long career, so it's a long story, but I'll try and be brief. I mean, look, I started programming in the 80s, right. A long, long time ago. And I was just, taken with programming. I love being technical. And I was lucky enough to study computer science at university.And as part of my one final year project, I just got into AI and I thought, "wow, this is really exciting." That led to me eventually doing a PhD in artificial intelligence in the early nineties. And I used to teach natural language processing. I used to teach AI. And I found it super fascinating, but as an academic in the 90s and being in probably the third AI winter, there was actually no jobs in AI.Which is kind of really weird to say, but right now, looking back, there was literally, it didn't really exist as an industry. So I had a choice. I could stay as being quite a poor academic choice. I could stay as being quite a poor academic in a field that was looked like it was going nowhere, or I could leave and get a job in a commercial enterprise. So I chose the latter, right? So in the late nineties, I came to the city of London and I spent 20 years working in various investment banks, always building systems, so building complex bank-wide, either risk management, pricing, derivative systems, and so on.But I always had this hankering to go back to my passion, which was artificial intelligence, and I think it was around 2015 I started seeing AI popping up, you know, Netflix, Amazon, collaborative filtering, and I got to thinking, "hold on, this is AI. This is kind of the stuff that we used to talk about."And over the next sort of two, three years, we saw more of it in mainstream news, right? Google were doing AI research, Amazon, Facebook, all the big tech companies. And I guess it was about 2009, '18, '19, my kind of midlife crisis. I thought to myself "well, look, do I want to go and do that work as a fairly old person, which is a passion, or do I just carry on working in banks, doing my thing?"And I made the decision that, look, I'm going to, I'm going to go, I'm going to leave my career and go back to AI. So I spent, about a year, I sat at my desk, I did loads of research, kind of caught up on a lot of the AI work that happened for the last 15 years. And it was amazing. You know, we have Keras, we have TensorFlow, we have frameworks.You know, you can build machine learning applications in days rather than, you know, when I was working on it. And really quickly, I happened upon ethics and I thought to myself, what does ethics got to do with AI? And really quickly it became apparent we have a problem, right, that the probabilistic approach to AI, the so called transformer architecture that we have now, this is only an approximation to what we really want to do.So it was very quick. I just realized that there'll be no end of technical people building the most powerful AI, but how many people really understand the ethical risks from the ground up, from building them and being able to take a view as to how harmful they could be and what those risks were. So I decided this was it.This was exactly what I want to carry on doing. So I worked for a tech company. I headed up AI ethical research for the European division for about a year and a half. And then I went to Lloyds Banking Group as their group head of data and AI ethics. And then NatWest Group, running strategy and AI ethics.And Sanjay, it's amazing. I'm doing the work that I love in an area that I think is really urgent, that we have to pay attention to. So that is my journey over sort of 25, 30 years. Sanjay Podder: Wonderful. And, you know, with the advent of generative AI, this risk landscape just gets more complex, right? Or responsible AI, you mentioned tru...
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Green Manufacturing and Supply Chains and the Role of Green IT and Responsible AI with May Yap
Jan 14, 202500:24:39Tap to summarizeCXO Bytes host Sanjay Podder is joined by May Yap, Senior Vice President and CIO of Jabil, to talk about the intersection of green IT, responsible AI, and sustainable manufacturing. May shares how Jabil integrates renewable energy, circular economy principles, and AI-driven solutions into its global operations, contributing to its recognition as one of America's Most Responsible Companies. The discussion delves into Jabil's ambitious sustainability goals, including achieving carbon neutrality by 2045, and highlights initiatives such as energy-efficient manufacturing, water conservation, and e-waste management. May also emphasizes the importance of responsible AI and green IT practices like desktop-as-a-service, no-code platforms, and energy-efficient algorithms in driving sustainable innovation across Jabil's manufacturing and supply chain ecosystems.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInMay Yap: LinkedIn | WebsiteFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:America's Most Responsible Companies 2025 - Newsweek Rankings [07:11]Data centres & networks - IEA [11:08]Jabil Makes Meaningful Sustainability Progress, Releases Fiscal Year 2022 Report [15:59]Electronic waste (e-waste) | WHO [19:27]If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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HBR Türkiye Business Summit: Sustainable Technology with Sanjay Poddar
Dec 13, 202400:19:50Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CXO Bytes, Sanjay Podder is hosted by Beliz Kudat to talk about the dual role of technology in driving sustainability while also contributing to environmental challenges. They explore how businesses can integrate sustainable strategies into their technology operations to minimize carbon footprints, optimize data center energy consumption, and leverage tools like AI and cloud solutions responsibly. Sanjay highlights actionable techniques such as carbon-aware scheduling, efficient coding practices, and emerging tools to measure the energy impact of AI. The discussion also emphasizes the business value of sustainability, including improved ESG scores, employee attraction, and outperforming competitors in shareholder returns, making sustainable technology a critical strategic imperative for organizations.Learn more about our people:Sanjay Podder: LinkedInBeliz Kudat: LinkedInFind out more about the GSF:The Green Software Foundation Website Sign up to the Green Software Foundation NewsletterResources:Key Findings Data Centres Metered Electricity Consumption 2023 - Central Statistics Office) [10:55]Carbon Aware SDK [12:54]CarbonCloud [15:40]Impact Framework 15:56]If you enjoyed this episode then please either:Follow, rate, and review on Apple PodcastsFollow and rate on SpotifyWatch our videos on The Green Software Foundation YouTube Channel!Connect with us on Twitter, Github and LinkedIn!TRANSCRIPT BELOW: Sanjay Podder: Hello and welcome to CXO Bytes, a podcast brought to you by the Green Software Foundation and dedicated to supporting chiefs of information, technology, sustainability, and AI as they aim to shape a sustainable future through green software. We will uncover the strategies and a big green move that's helped drive results for business and for the planet.I am your host, Sanjay Podder.Beliz Kudat: Okay, Sanjay, welcome to our business summit. Sanjay Poddar: Thank you so much for having me today. My pleasure. Beliz Kudat: It's a pleasure having you. So, you know, in today's rapidly developing digital technologies and this digital transformation, a significant dilemma arises, especially for sustainability. And on one hand, these technologies offer substantial, huge potential to address environmental issues.And on the other hand, there exists an entire substantial resource consumption. So first, we'd like to start by asking your perspective on this and how can technologies both solve and exacerbate environmental problems? Sanjay Poddar: Great question. And there's a duality here between technology and sustainability. You know, when you look at sustainability, and if you look at sustainable development goals that we have, the 17 sustainable development goals, one thing that strikes you that they are exponential in nature.The impact is huge. You know, we are not talking about small things. We are talking about scale. And you cannot do anything at scale without technology. And in this case, if we talk about information communication technology, we talk about artificial intelligence, for example, these are precisely the kind of tools we need today to address the sustainability challenges that we are facing, whether is it climate change, whether it is, you know, issues of building a more inclusive society, for example, biodiversity destruction that is happening. Each of these areas, you need technology, you need AI, you need blockchain, you know, you need digital, right? There is no second thought about it. In fact, we did a survey of companies and we found out that 70 percent of the companies we surveyed, who were able to reduce the carbon emissions in the production, in their operation, they were able to do it because they use artificial intelligence.Now, so there is absolutely no question about the role of technology in sustainability. But what we miss out is, you know, if we are not using this technology in the right way, in the right manner, technology itself has a carbon footprint. Technology can cause a big environmental impact. For example, technology can amplify the issues of bias.For example, privacy. So, we have to make sure that while we use this technology, we have to use it in a very sustainable and responsible way. And the data points, are very interesting. For example, the same AI that is going to help us so much. You know, if you look at AI, you know, you take a large language model like Bloom, which is open source, so some of the data we have, we know.A 160, 176 billion parameter model. When they trained it, you know, I think the carbon emission out of it is somewhere around 24.7 metric tons of CO2 equivalent. And if you look at all its life cycle, including the embodied carbon of the hardware on which it was trained, it goes up to 50 metric tons of CO2 equivalent, for example.And if you take larger models, you know, all the more popular large language models, they may go as high as 500 metric tons of CO2 equivalent. So the same technology that is helping us on one hand is also causing emission, carbon emission. And the impact is not just restricted there, as we know. It is also on other resources like water.You know, we can, you do some, you know, very harmless query to your, you know, the large language models for some questions, "where do I, which other cities I should visit in Turkey in my next trip to Turkey?" Right? You know, you asked 20, 30 questions. Behind the scene, that's half a liter of water that was used.For cooling the data centers, for generation of electricity, and we also know about the other dimension about energy use. So, that's the whole thing. Now, the good part is, we don't necessarily have to have such a severe impact. There are tools and techniques and methods whereby we can design, develop, deploy these systems in a way that they are much more, having lower impact on the environment.For example, they are safeguarding privacy, they give you much more safer response, so you know, there's less bias. So overall, it is very much possible to bring a culture such that the software you write is more sustainable and more responsible. So that's the silver lining, right? So to your first question, a big duality.If you are in business, therefore your strategy, your technology and sustainability strategy needs to be integrated. And you have to look at it very holistically, not just at sustainability by technology. And "how do I use tech to do sustainability," but sustainability in technology, "how do I make sure that the technology is being used in a much more sustainable and responsible way?"Beliz Kudat: Yeah. This is the crucial question as you said, and technology is crucial, as you mentioned in all those sustainability efforts as well. And we also know that software is at the core of all these technologies and companies need to adapt the way software is designed, developed, deployed, as you said, and used to minimize its carbon footprint.So how can they achieve this? Sanjay Poddar: Well, you know, the software stack, there are many decarbonization levers in the software stack. When you talk about a software stack, there's obviously the code itself, which has to be written in a manner that it makes less demand on the underlying hardware, for example, right?So you need to bring that kind of design patterns, architectures, choice of programming languages, all that have a bearing on the emissions or the energy use and emissions. For example, you know, there is a whole study about interpreted languages and compiled languages. You know, a language like C++, if you write a code and you write a similar code for doing the same thing with Python, obviously it is found that the C++ code will need less energy and will emit less carbon.Now, not to say that people have to write in C++ but it's just a data point that, are you even thinking about, you know, which language are you selecting? And then there are, around architectures, for example. And then a very interesting decarbonization lever is the migration of your workloads to hyperscalers, for example, to the cloud....
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