Podcast Title: Dan Snow's History Hit
Episode: Pompeii
Release Date: August 14, 2025
Host: Dan Snow
Guest: Dr. Kate Lister
Introduction
In this compelling episode of Dan Snow's History Hit, host Dan Snow teams up with renowned historian Dr. Kate Lister to delve deep into the tragic and fascinating story of Pompeii. Released on August 14, 2025, the episode offers listeners an immersive journey through the ancient Roman city, exploring its vibrant life, catastrophic destruction, and remarkable archaeological rediscovery.
The Eruption of Mount Vesuvius: A Day of Catastrophe ([02:35] - [06:38])
The episode opens with a vivid recounting of the fateful day in 79 AD when Mount Vesuvius erupted, engulfing Pompeii and its neighboring cities in a devastating pyroclastic flow. Dr. Kate Lister provides a descriptive narrative:
"The sky blackens as volcanic debris rains down on Pompeii, Herculaneum, and other surrounding settlements. Pliny later wrote, the daylight was now elsewhere in the world, but there, the darkness was darker and thicker than any night." ([02:57])
Dan Snow emphasizes the suddenness and severity of the disaster:
"It moves faster than any man can run. It is hotter than a furnace. It sweeps through the gates of Pompeii in an instant. Those who run die where they stand. In almost an instant, the city is gone." ([06:07] - [06:26])
This segment effectively sets the stage for understanding the scale and immediacy of the eruption's impact on the inhabitants.
Rediscovery and Excavations of Pompeii ([06:38] - [08:03])
The discussion transitions to the rediscovery of Pompeii in the 16th century by architect Domenico Fontana, who stumbled upon the ruins while digging an underground channel. However, initial excavations were halted due to the discovery of erotic frescoes, leading to Pompeii remaining hidden for another century.
"Proper excavations began in the 1700s after the discovery of nearby Herculaneum in 1709. It wasn't until the following century that excavations became more careful and scientific." ([07:26] - [07:29])
Dr. Lister highlights the groundbreaking work of Giuseppe Fiorelli, who pioneered the creation of plaster casts to capture the voids left by decomposed bodies, providing hauntingly accurate representations of the victims.
Exploring Pompeii: Personal Experiences ([08:03] - [19:14])
Dan Snow shares his personal visit to Pompeii with Dr. Kate Lister, offering listeners a firsthand account of walking through the ancient streets. The duo explores various zones of the city, including residential areas, marketplaces, temples, and the famed gladiator arena.
"It's such a surreal place to be because it's not like a museum. This is the city where they lived. You really do walk in their streets. This is their houses." ([09:22])
They discuss the stark wealth disparities evident in the city's layout, noting the proximity of palatial homes to humble dwellings and bustling marketplaces.
"There was a big thriving tourist industry... The wealth disparity was really stark." ([12:25] - [12:51])
Dan humorously advises future visitors:
"Don't go in the summer and wear walking shoes, because it is brutal." ([10:33])
Kate echoes this sentiment, recounting her own discomfort:
"I wore the stupidest shoes... They were very nice shoes, they were very nice shoes." ([10:58] - [11:12])
Daily Life and Social Structures in Pompeii ([11:21] - [16:21])
The conversation delves into the daily life of Pompeii's inhabitants. They describe the bustling Forum as the epicenter of political and social activity, likening it to the modern-day equivalent of a city center filled with commerce, gossip, and communal interaction.
"The Forum was the place where the politicians and the local officials would meet and have discussions and thoughts and do business." ([15:49])
Dan and Kate explore the amphitheater, highlighting its significance as a major social hub:
"A big amphitheater... It was a big amphitheater. It was a big amphitheater." ([23:21] - [23:33])
Dr. Lister emphasizes the gladiators' celebrity status, adorned with graffiti that humanizes and adds depth to these historical figures.
Attitudes Towards Sex and the Only Preserved Brothel ([16:21] - [28:43])
One of the most intriguing segments discusses the only known brothel in Pompeii. Dr. Lister elaborates on the complexity of classifying such establishments and the rich insights their discovery provides into the sexual norms of ancient Rome.
"It's the only surviving brothel that we have from the ancient world. And even more important than that, it's got graffiti on the walls that were written by the people that work there." ([24:34] - [24:35])
They explore the prevalent depiction of male genitalia throughout Pompeii, debating its purpose. Dr. Lister suggests these were likely good luck charms or cultural symbols rather than mere decorative elements.
"They were good luck charms. So they're warding off evil." ([28:43])
The episode also touches on the inclusivity and widespread nature of sexual activities, including homosexual relations, as evidenced by the graffiti and frescoes.
The Plaster Casts: Preserved Memories of Pompeii's Victims ([31:09] - [32:42])
A poignant part of the episode focuses on the plaster casts of the victims, created by pouring plaster into the voids left by decomposed bodies. These casts provide a haunting glimpse into the final moments of Pompeii's residents.
"You just don't know who these people are. Your heart just breaks for them when you realize that that was their last moment." ([32:31] - [32:42])
Dan discusses the technical aspects of creating these casts, emphasizing their significance in bringing the human element of Pompeii's tragedy to life.
Archaeological Significance and Modern Insights ([34:10] - [35:40])
The discussion highlights recent archaeological advancements, such as rendering wooden structures in plaster to preserve them. Dan recounts remarkable finds, including the only horses discovered in Pompeii, suggesting possible escape attempts during the eruption.
"It was fascinating... we saw the only horses they've recovered." ([34:10] - [34:36])
Dr. Lister and Dan also reflect on the broader implications of Pompeii's preservation, noting how technological and scientific progress continues to unveil new facets of this ancient city.
Lessons from Pompeii and Final Reflections ([35:57] - [41:53])
As the episode nears its conclusion, Dan and Kate discuss the broader lessons learned from Pompeii's destruction. They touch upon the importance of heeding early warnings and the human propensity to underestimate impending disasters.
Dan humorously shares his own preparedness plans, juxtaposing ancient and modern responses to natural catastrophes.
"Your main lesson from history is at the slightest whiff of trouble... Get out." ([38:42] - [39:27])
The conversation wraps up with lighter anecdotes about daily life in Pompeii, including the unpleasant experience of trying historical Roman foods like garum (a fermented fish sauce).
"I had this idea that when you tasted it, it would actually be, oh, my God, that's a revelation. No, it's not. It was like cat food. It was awful." ([42:27] - [42:44])
Conclusion and Takeaways
Dan Snow and Dr. Kate Lister provide a rich, multifaceted exploration of Pompeii, blending historical facts with personal experiences. The episode underscores Pompeii's enduring legacy as a window into ancient Roman life, societal norms, and the sheer unpredictability of natural disasters. Through vivid storytelling and expert analysis, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of why Pompeii remains one of history's most captivating archaeological sites.
Key Takeaways:
- Pompeii's Daily Life: A bustling city with stark social contrasts and vibrant public spaces.
- Catastrophic Eruption: The sudden and devastating impact of Mount Vesuvius on Pompeii and its inhabitants.
- Archaeological Marvel: The unique preservation of Pompeii offers unparalleled insights into ancient Roman society.
- Cultural Insights: Exploration of Roman attitudes towards sex, social structures, and public life.
- Humanizing History: The plaster casts and preserved artifacts bring a personal touch to the historical narrative.
Notable Quotes:
- "You really do walk in their streets. This is their houses. You can go into their homes. It is very eerie to be there." – Dr. Kate Lister ([09:22])
- "It is hotter than a furnace. It sweeps through the gates of Pompeii in an instant. Those who run die where they stand. In almost an instant, the city is gone." – Dan Snow ([06:07])
- "They clearly had very different attitudes to our own... They had quite a bawdy sense of humor, they have a lot of hang ups. Let's not pretend it was some kind of sexual utopia." – Dr. Kate Lister ([29:55])
Further Exploration
For more insights and detailed explorations of historical events, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to Dan Snow's History Hit and check out Dr. Kate Lister's sister podcast, Betwixt the Sheets, which delves into the history of sex scandals in society.