Danny Jones Podcast Episode #324

"NASA Physicist Comes Clean on UFOs & Why We Can't Go Back to The Moon" with guest Dr. Kevin Knuth
Release Date: August 18, 2025

Episode Overview

In this captivating, far-reaching conversation, Danny Jones welcomes Dr. Kevin Knuth—a physicist, former NASA scientist, and UAP (UFO) researcher. Together, they navigate from the story of Knuth’s time at NASA and early AI work, to deep dives into the evidence and mystery surrounding UFOs/UAPs, questions about why humanity hasn’t returned to the moon, challenges facing scientific progress, the plausibility of “anti-gravity” technology, and the struggle to study taboo topics in mainstream science. Knuth shares his personal journey from UFO skepticism to passionate advocacy for rigorous investigation, details some of the most compelling UAP cases, and reflects on both the mysteries of ancient civilizations and the current front lines of scientific inquiry.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Dr. Knuth’s Background and Work at NASA

• Early Career:

  • Started in neuroscience using early AI/machine learning for brain signal separation (before "AI" was common lingo).

    "I've been doing the AI for 30 years, but we didn’t call it AI." (02:00, Kevin Knuth)

  • Shifted to astrophysics, collaborating on detecting exoplanets via Doppler shift and on 3D modeling of planetary nebulae.

• Time at NASA Ames:

  • Four-year tenure focused on mapping and visualizing nebulae, not direct involvement with moon missions.
  • Recalls the excitement of the moon landing as a child—a milestone he feels younger generations can’t fully relate to.

• Moon Mapping Proposal:

  • Proposal for a digital mapping system for future lunar explorers, using data from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter.

    "We wanted to design a digital map that you could use on the moon...so you don't get lost. We didn't get the grant." (07:12, Kevin Knuth)

2. Why Haven’t We Returned to the Moon?

• Not a Conspiracy—More Mundane Reasons:

  • Cuts to space programs due to the Vietnam War and subsequent economic recessions.
  • Persistent focus on warfare rather than exploration.

    "We fight too many wars. That’s why we stopped." (102:34, Kevin Knuth)

• Missed Opportunity:

  • Both host and guest express frustration and confusion at the lack of progress since the Apollo missions, noting the stagnation of space technology compared to rapid advances in other technologies.

3. The UFO/UAP Topic: From Skepticism to Scientific Investigation

• Culture at NASA:

  • In Knuth's experience, open discussion of UFOs was taboo, dismissed as “nonsense.”

    "If you brought it up at all...everybody would scoff. 'No, that’s ridiculous. That’s nonsense. We’re NASA. We do real things.'" (06:17, Kevin Knuth)

• Knuth’s Turning Point:

  • Initially skeptical, Knuth recalls a story from graduate school in Montana involving a cattle mutilation, rumors of UFOs over nuclear sites, and a professor's casual mention of the Air Force experiencing missile shutdowns due to UFO activity.
  • Years later, after stumbling onto the 2010 National Press Club testimony of Air Force personnel recounting similar incidents, he shifted from skepticism to concern for the lack of scientific attention on a real security problem.

    "What if this is serious? And we all just laugh it off like a joke... If that's the case, then we've got a real problem on our hands." (15:58, Kevin Knuth)

• Academic Stigma Remains:

  • Only a small number of academics are openly studying UAPs/UFOs, but Knuth became increasingly public after a full house at his departmental talk and in the wake of the 2017 New York Times AATIP revelations.

4. Standout UFO/UAP Cases and Scientific Analysis

The 1986 Japanese Airlines Incident

• Summary:
  • A cargo plane over Alaska encountered enormous objects—first darting lights, then a “mothership” the size of a stadium—which were tracked on radar for 45 minutes.
• Investigation and Data:
  • Radar tapes confiscated by the U.S. government, but a copy survived thanks to whistleblower John Callahan.
  • Physicist Daniel Kumbay analyzed the data; craft displayed accelerations up to 10,000 Gs and speeds of 250,000 mph—physics-defying by human standards.

    "That thing could get to the moon in 52 minutes." (24:17, Kevin Knuth)
    “The accelerations are insane. And that energy has to go somewhere… There should be a huge explosion and it doesn’t. We really don’t understand what these things do at all… They’re amazing.” (25:01, Kevin Knuth)

Historical “USO” (Unidentified Submerged Object) Reports

• Duration and Documentation:
  • Accounts in ship logs stretching back over 150 years, with disk-shaped craft entering/exiting the ocean—preceding any plausible human technology.

    "Once you know that those cases exist, you can’t just say it’s got to be Russian or Chinese." (26:09, Kevin Knuth)

5. Theories and Mechanisms: Speculation Grounded in Physics

• True Unknowns:
  • Knuth believes some modern UAPs could be secret military projects, but historical cases rule out all-human explanations.
• How Do They Move?
  • Accelerations/turns observed would destroy any biological occupants; suggests:
    • Manipulation of gravitational fields (“warp drive”)
    • Possible quantum tunneling (macroscopic teleportation)
  • Confesses, “It’s hard to speculate without hard data.” (41:20, Kevin Knuth)
• Time Traveler and "Breakaway Civilization" Theories:
  • Finds “time traveler” solutions difficult due to current lack of scientific framework; open to the notion these are ancient or parallel human civilizations, as well as extraterrestrial.

6. Science, Secrecy, and Funding Challenges

• Government Ignorance vs. Deliberate Secrecy:

  • Asserts that a major reason for lack of disclosure or scientific progress could be that nobody has solid answers—even in government.

    "I honestly don’t think they know what to disclose. It’s going to raise many more questions that they just don’t have answers to." (46:27, Kevin Knuth)

• Lack of Funding:

  • Most open, academic scientific UAP research is hamstrung by lack of funding; reliance on independent donors and documentary makers (e.g., funding for the "A Tear in the Sky" documentary project).

• "Shut up and Calculate" Era in Physics:

  • Knuth reflects on how 20th-century physics’ “shut up and calculate” mindset led to theoretical stagnation; real breakthroughs have come from conceptual paradigm shifts.

    "We stopped appreciating that real breakthroughs come from conceptual changes rather than just applying math." (36:48, Kevin Knuth)

7. Anti-gravity and Suppressed Research

• Townsend Brown and “Anti-Gravity” Research:
  • Anti-gravity experiments in the 1950s led to rumors of harassment and suppression; Knuth claims to personally know people in the private sector who've experienced pushback.
• Contemporary Efforts and Harassment:
  • Discusses current independent labs and researchers allegedly being shut down or harassed (e.g., Jeremy Riss in Massachusetts).
• Pervasive Stigma and Fear:
  • The field is rife with unsubstantiated claims and buzzwords; genuine progress would require a robust theoretical link between electromagnetism and gravity.

8. Revisiting the "Moon Landing Hoax" and Technological Regression

• Moon Hoax Skepticism Addressed:

  • Knuth mentions modern missions have photographed Apollo landing sites, debunking the notion that they were faked.

    "We have the landing sites. You can see the prints [from the landers]. There’s no weather; they’ll still be there a million years from now." (112:00, Kevin Knuth)

• Why Moon Shot Tech Didn’t Advance:

  • Suggests that the “robustness, not power” of early computers was key; subsequent technological trends favored power/miniaturization over robustness.

    "What didn’t last, was the robustness." (101:55, Kevin Knuth)

9. Notable Experiments—UAPX and “A Tear in the Sky”

• UAPX Group Mission to Catalina:

  • Collaborative UAP study in California using multiple observation stations; showcased in the documentary “A Tear in the Sky.”
  • Early misidentification (International Space Station as a UAP) corrected by solid physics and teamwork.

• Outreach and Collaboration:

  • Knuth is actively involved in the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies (SCU), citing multinational academic participation in recent review papers.

10. Material Evidence, Witnesses, and International UAP Incidents

• Physical Trace Cases:
  • Cases of UFO landings leaving scorch marks, altered tree bark, and radiation; Jacques Vallée’s recent published paper analyzing luminous energy output.
• Government Attitudes:
  • U.S. government (and many others) frequently changed or muddied stories on major incidents (Roswell, etc.), fueling distrust rather than skepticism.

    "Government has been changing the story every time and lying every time...What was so serious that they detained the sheriff and his family for five days?" (84:41, Kevin Knuth)

• International Cooperation:
  • Suggests that working with foreign governments (like Chile or France), which may be less secretive, is likely more fruitful than hoping for U.S. government disclosure.

11. Ancient Mysteries & Academic Stagnation

• Academic Inertia:
  • Both in Egyptology and physics, there is a reluctance to question foundational dogmas, even in the face of anomalies (perfectly engineered ancient artifacts, mysteries of the pyramids).

    "We don’t like changing worldviews. That’s a problem." (122:20, Kevin Knuth)

• Lost Technologies:
  • Cites Roman cement, Antikythera mechanism, and possibly vanished machining tools in ancient Egypt as lost innovations.

12. Speculation about Ocean Worlds and Habitable Planets

• Water as a Universal Medium:
  • Liquid water worlds may be common; life, including advanced technological civilizations, may prefer oceans for their stable environments and protection.

    "If I was an interstellar traveler… I would bring equipment to live underwater." (70:17, Kevin Knuth)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “That thing could get to the moon in 52 minutes.“ (24:17, Knuth) — on the speed of the Japanese Airlines UFO.
• “I think very, very little is known...I don’t think [the government] knows what to disclose.” (46:29, Knuth)
• “We stopped appreciating that real breakthroughs come from conceptual changes rather than just applying math.” (36:48, Knuth)
• “Once you know that [USO] cases exist, you can’t just say it’s got to be Russian or Chinese… That doesn’t hold water anymore.” (26:09, Knuth)
• “Having watched the moon launches when I was a kid, I always wanted to go to the moon...and what, I turned 60 last month, so, like, I’m probably not gonna go to the moon. It sucks. I would like to.” (103:38, Knuth)
• “It’s not that it’s advanced technology. It is conceptually far beyond us.” (25:39, Knuth)
• “I can’t wait till we go back to the moon… I remember my dad carrying me and pointing up at the moon and saying, Kevin, there are people up there.” (08:51, Knuth)
• “It’s a waste of time [to expect disclosure from the US government]...I’d rather spend time with other governments.” (85:05, Knuth)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:38] — Knuth’s entry into NASA and early machine learning in neuroscience/physics.
• [05:21] — Emotional memory of the moon landing and the foundational awe it created.
• [06:05] — Cultural dismissal of UFOs at NASA and in academia.
• [11:18] — The incident in Montana: UFO rumors, nuclear site shutdowns, and the seeds of Knuth’s interest in UFOs.
• [15:58] — Discovery of official testimony about UFOs disabling nuclear missiles; birth of serious concern and research.
• [21:29] — Detailed recounting and analysis of the Japan Airlines UAP case.
• [25:01] — Physics-defying acceleration and energy transfer problems with UAP craft.
• [26:08] — 150 years of USO reports, undermining 'all-tech' or recent-human hypotheses.
• [33:47] — Stagnation in physics research and the "shut up and calculate" movement.
• [42:34] — Knuth’s multi-author scientific review paper on the current state of UAP science.
• [46:27] — Ignorance at the governmental level and the problem of honest disclosure about UAPs.
• [70:17] — Ocean worlds: why intelligent interplanetary travelers might prefer water.
• [102:34] — Why humanity stopped going to the moon.
• [112:06] — Proofs of Apollo mission landings; moon prints will last millions of years.
• [118:39] — Academic rigidity and dogmatism in the face of archaeological and physical anomalies.

Resources & Where to Find Dr. Kevin Knuth

• University at Albany faculty page
• UAPx and Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies (SCU) websites

  “We have our UAPX website...and we’re working with the SCU, Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies. You can Google and find us.” (136:23, Knuth)

This episode is a must-listen for anyone fascinated by the frontiers of physics, the UFO/UAP mystery, and the intersection of science, skepticism, and belief. Dr. Knuth’s measured, open-minded approach combined with decades of scientific expertise makes this an illuminating exploration of where the search for the unknown may yet take us.