#339 - NEW Details of John McAfee's Death Revealed by His Wife | Janice McAfee

Summary

Danny Jones Podcast #339

NEW Details of John McAfee's Death Revealed by His Wife | Janice McAfee
Release Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Danny Jones
Guest: Janice McAfee

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Overview

In this riveting episode, Danny Jones interviews Janice McAfee, wife of the late tech legend and infamous fugitive John McAfee. Janice shares intimate details about John's final years, insights into his mysterious death, and her harrowing journey entangled in crime, espionage, and love. She also critiques how documentaries have portrayed John, and discusses her own path from sex work to building a life with one of tech's most notorious figures.

Main Theme:
Challenging the official narrative around John McAfee’s death, Janice sheds light on previously unrevealed details, dispels myths from documentaries, and offers a deeply personal account of their dangerous life together.

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Key Topics, Insights, and Timed Highlights

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1. The Death of John McAfee—What Really Happened?

• Location, Circumstances, and Official Account

  • John was arrested in Barcelona, Spain, and incarcerated from October 2020 until his reported suicide in June 2021.
  • Janice spoke to John three times daily during his imprisonment. (00:48–2:00)
  • On the day of his death, John was disappointed but not surprised by the news of impending extradition to the US, with further appeals expected to delay any transfer.
  • Janice only found out about John's death through media, not from prison or legal contacts. (4:33–11:33)

• Suspicious Details and Institutional Response

  • Prison authorities opened an investigation into his death, despite having already publicly labeled it suicide.
  • John was still alive when found: shallow breathing and faint pulse.
  • He was found hanging by shoestrings from a low window, feet on the floor—eerily similar to the reported circumstances of Jeffrey Epstein’s death.
  • Evidence (the noose or connection to the window) was destroyed by burning before complete documentation. (7:32–10:53)
  • "There was something attached to the...what was around his neck and around the, you know, at the window... They burned it off to bring him down. So that evidence was destroyed." – Janice (8:59)
  • Autopsy was never fully released, only a summary provided.

• On the Murder Theory

  • No direct evidence, but Janice suspects powerful actors could have been involved.
  • “He was a fighter till the end.” (3:08)
  • None of John's attorneys or Janice were informed of his death by the prison; all heard via the news. (11:33)

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2. Media and Public Mythmaking

• Netflix Documentary and Misinformation

  • Janice debunks rumors from docu-series, like Samantha’s claim of a phone call from John after his death.
  • "She probably was paid to say it. …just to like, spice up the documentary." – Janice (13:10)
  • Critiques the “Gringo: The Dangerous Life of John McAfee” as sensationalist and factually weak; claims locals were paid to lie. (15:15–17:28)
  • “If telling them that you saw me eating babies will get them to pay you more money… you tell them that, and you get money, because I’m not there to help you guys.” (16:00)

• Running With The Devil vs Gringo

  • Running With The Devil is more entertaining and less overtly biased, but still omits key footage (like their time in Cuba).
  • “There's so much more footage… than just this little snippet of what you were able to see." (14:00)

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3. Life on the Run – Espionage, Threats, and Exile

• Fleeing the US to Avoid Arrest

  • John preemptively prepared an escape by retrofitting a boat, “The Great Mystery,” for their 2019 departure after learning of a grand jury investigation.
  • They escaped US jurisdiction by traveling to the Bahamas, Cuba, Dominican Republic, then into Europe.
  • Detailed story of being detained in the DR, smuggling cash, and John’s staged health crisis to stall extradition. (18:00–25:00)

• Techniques for Survival

  • John’s history of cash stashes buried throughout the US; he would disappear during road trips to go dig them up. (78:10)
  • Constant surveillance, use of security and decoys, hiding in apartments, and repeatedly changing location to avoid hitmen or authorities.

• Cartel and Political Corruption

  • John’s falling out with Belizean officials began with his refusal to make a $2 million political “donation,” escalating to a raid that killed his dog, destruction of his property, and attempts on his life.
  • John retaliated by gifting government officials keylogged laptops, gathering evidence of drug/human trafficking and money laundering. (47:38–48:10)
  • The Belizean government’s main aim became capturing John alive for the data, not simply his death. (56:25)
  • "They needed to collect him to find out where the information was and to make sure they had all of it and destroy it." – Janice (56:25)

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4. Prostitution, Pimping, and Gangland Intrigue

• Janice’s Background and Meeting John

  • Janice was working as a prostitute in Miami when she met John in 2012, shortly after his return from Guatemala.
  • Their first night together was surprisingly intimate—he just wanted to cuddle and sleep. (70:42–71:42)
  • “I sized him up really quickly. Like, you know, he doesn’t have any money and he doesn’t look interesting.” (65:31)
  • John rescued her from a violent pimp, navigating threats from both organized pimp networks and the cartel. (81:32–85:11, 111:09–116:09)

• Attempted Manipulation and Threats on John’s Life

  • Cartel representatives tried pressuring Janice to poison John or reveal his whereabouts—she resisted and warned him in subtle ways.
  • Pimp and cartel networks intersect in alarming ways, including threats to her and her family. (112:08–116:09)

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5. Constant Danger: Break-ins, Paranoia, and Attempted Assassination

• Portland Intrigue

  • Cartoonishly convoluted incident in which their apartment building manager is suspected to be involved in a plot to “collect” John.
  • Attempted hit involved a staged garbage truck and unexplainable activity captured on security cameras. (127:54–131:41)
  • “The manager… goes directly into the room where the surveillance cameras would have been… then leaves… [his] face goes like white… like all the blood is drained from his face.” (128:35–130:24)

• Aftermath and Escalation

  • More incidents in Denver, Hatteras, Tennessee—stalked and surveilled by shadowy groups, including the Sinaloa cartel.
  • John becomes increasingly paranoid and vigilant, sometimes staying up for days policing the property. (173:13–177:13)

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6. John McAfee: The Man, the Myth, the Software

• Tech Origins and Legacy

  • Started McAfee Antivirus after discovering the Pakistani Brain virus, with initial customers being the US government and intelligence agencies. (27:21–29:32)
  • Sold his stake in 1994; later acquired by Intel for $7B, long after he’d left.
  • Quirky, honest personality: admitted to drugs, sexual exploits, honored government secrecy his entire life.

• Documentary vs Reality

  • No substantiated drug addiction: “No cocaine. He was super square. When we were living in Portland, he had an issue because I was…smoking weed.” (41:19)
  • Occasionally took ecstasy; notorious video showing “drugs” was cornstarch. (41:25–41:41)
  • “He just wanted to really play up all of the negative press that was going on about him.” (41:43)

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7. Dead Man’s Switches, Clinton, and Cartel Power

• Did John Have a Dead Man Switch?

  • Janice says he never gave her access or location of sensitive information, for both her safety and because of trust concerns given the circumstances of how they met. (161:09)
  • “If killing him was the goal, they could have done it at any time, but they needed his data.” (56:55)
  • Conspiracies around Miami condo collapse and Israeli rescue team surfaced after his death—Janice speculates but acknowledges possible mundane explanations. (162:05–164:51)

• Governmental Interference

  • John was denied asylum at the US Embassy in Belize, speculating the order may have come from Hilary Clinton as Secretary of State. (157:56–158:59)
  • Believed he had damning material on politicians and officials worldwide, but Janice had no direct knowledge or access. (157:34)

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8. Janice’s Life Today: Continuing a Complicated Legacy

• Current Activities

  • Works on a privacy-focused crypto company, Antivirus.AI—products built on John’s philosophy around digital sovereignty. (181:26–183:02)
  • Created an AI version of John which posts on X (Twitter), using his tweets, speeches, and interviews as training data for “Waltzing with Anarchy” podcasts. (183:28–185:14)

• Control and Legacy of John’s Social Media

  • Janice managed John’s account during his imprisonment; some of his most famous tweets (like the “If I’m found dead, I didn’t kill myself” tweet) were dictated to her by John while in prison. (186:11–186:33)
  • “Anything that you see from his account during that time while he was in prison was tweeted out by me.” (185:52)

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Notable Quotes

• On John’s Death:

  • “He was a fighter till the end… this just wasn’t what he would do.” – Janice (3:08)
  • “There was something attached to the...what was around his neck and around the...window... So that evidence was destroyed.” – Janice (8:59)
  • “None of us were contacted. We learned…of his death through the news.” (11:33)

• On the Cartel Threat:

  • “I was given a substance… and told to put it in his food. They were asking me to park his truck in a certain area so it can be accessed… I would tell John, ‘Don’t drive by yourself… Just park in the garage.’” (116:09)

• On Media Portrayals:

  • “If telling them that you saw me eating babies will get them to pay you more money… you just tell them that, and you get money, because I’m not there to help you guys.” (16:00)

• On Meeting John:

  • “He just wanted to cuddle… and it was the best sleep ever.” (71:42)
  • “I sized him up really quickly… he doesn’t have any money and he doesn’t look interesting.” (65:31)

• On Living with John:

  • “There would be days sometimes where John would not sleep, and when nighttime hit, all the lights would have to be off in the house, and he'd be in the windows watching, listening.” (173:13)

• On AI John:

  • “We've got to get it cursing and we've got to get that McAfee cough…just to make it more [real].” (184:53)

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Timeline of Key Events

• 00:48–11:33: The day John died, suspicious evidence, lack of notifications.
• 13:10–17:31: Netflix/Showtime documentary claims and their inaccuracies.
• 18:00–26:55: Life on the run; leaving the US and journey through the Caribbean.
• 47:38–56:55: Belize political standoff, evidence-gathering, and cartel warfare.
• 70:42–71:42: First night Janice and John spent together.
• 81:32–116:09: Cartels, pimps, and surviving attempted setups and poisonings.
• 127:54–131:41: Attempted “collection” in Portland, suspicious new building managers.
• 147:44–151:59: Security strategies, more attempts at home invasions.
• 153:20–155:40: John runs for President for self-protection.
• 161:09–164:54: Dead man switches, conspiracy speculations after John’s death.
• 181:26–185:14: Janice’s current projects: Antivirus.AI, AI McAfee podcast.

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Tone & Language

Janice offers an unflinchingly personal, candid narrative. She blends sharp critique of media, dry humor, emotional confessions, and streetwise wisdom. Danny Jones’ tone remains respectful, curious, and at times incredulous at the scope of the story.

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Conclusion

Janice McAfee provides a compelling revisionist history of John McAfee’s last years, rejecting the “madman” stereotype, recounting life-threatening incidents, and suggesting John’s death was not the open-and-shut case authorities claim. Her testimony, filled with detail and skepticism, is critical listening—and reading—for anyone interested in true crime, political intrigue, and the unpredictable lives of tech outlaws.

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For more:

• Antivirus.AI
• @officialmcafee on X (managed by Janice)
• “The John McAfee Tapes” by Mark Eglinton

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Episode runtime: ~3h 8m
Ad-free summary by [PodcastGPT]

Transcript

[Interviewer]

You are the wife of the. Of John McAfee?

[Janice McAfee]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And I just recently listened to you tell your story on Matt Cox's podcast, which was fantastic. So I thought I have to get you in here to tell this because I, I, you, you have, like, the most intimate details.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Of his life from the point when you met him, when he got back from, I think, Guatemala, Right?

[Janice McAfee]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

But, like, to start this thing off, maybe we should talk about what happened with his death in. And where, where did he die? Where was he? And, like, what was the outcome of the investigation that happened with that?

[Janice McAfee]

Okay. So we were in Spain. We had been there for a few months, and John was going to be leaving to go to Turkey to meet some friends. And so he was flying out of the Barcelona airport when he was arrested, and he was taken to the Brian's one penitentiary in Barcelona, out just outside of Barcelona. So he had been there from early October, I think it was October 4th, when he was arrested, until he died, which was June 23rd, 2021. So he'd been there the entire time. Sorry, October 4th, 2020, until June of 2021. And that's where he was when he died. I spoke to him the day that he died. I spoke to him every day. When. Once he was processed and in the system, in the prison, I spoke to him every day, three times a day. The phone calls were eight minutes a piece, so really short.

[Interviewer]

But was this in Belize?

[Janice McAfee]

No, this was in Barcelona. Barcelona, Spain. Yeah. And so, yeah, I didn't know John when he was in Belize.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

I met him. Yeah, that was pre my time, so. But he, he was doing well, you know, ish. You know, it's prison, so I mean, how well can you be doing?

[Interviewer]

I heard prison in Spain's not that bad.

[Janice McAfee]

I don't think it was, but I don't think that he was necessarily giving me the truth about what he was maybe experienc. Um, I know he lost a lot of weight. His attorney was concerned about his appearance because he didn't look well. But I will say, before he went to prison, he was a little overweight. You know, John was a very slender guy, you know, and he had gained a lot of weight. We, we did a lot of drinking. So, yeah, so he gained a lot of weight. So I think he was just getting back down to his natural state of being, which is slim. So. But he, he's. He was fine, you know, as far as I could tell over the phone. You know, it didn't sound stressed or obviously tired, you know, but the day of he went to court because they were going to give a ruling on whether or not he was going to be extradited back to America. And so we.

[Interviewer]

Which he didn't want. Right?

[Janice McAfee]

Right, of course. No, he didn't want to be extradited back. But we had a team of attorneys, two Spanish attorneys, two American attorneys, because there was two cases brought against him. First it was initially the, the tax fraud, and then the SEC added some other charges later after, once he was arrested and in custody. So we had two separate attorneys working on that and then we also had a British attorney who was working on that angle because John had dual citizenship. So we understood that, that they were probably going to grant the extradition. And, and so this was not a surprise. You know, it didn't cut catched on by surprise, so. Because I've heard a lot of people comment on him rage quitting and, and that wasn't. If he knew John, you just would know that that wasn't him like killing himself. Yeah, okay. You know, this just wasn't what he would do. Right. He was a fighter till the end, you know, and I believe that, that he definitely fought. What, however it was that they were able to get him in that position that he was in, I believe that he fought, which is why maybe they wouldn't allow me to see his body as I was requesting.

[Interviewer]

So the day that, the day that he died, it was decided that he would be extradited.

[Janice McAfee]

Right. But there was going to be appeals. Right, there's an appeals process there. Was it. So he wasn't going to be extradited that same day.

[Interviewer]

It was going to be what, week.

[Janice McAfee]

Year or month, you know. Yeah, it's going to be a long time. Um, and so we, everyone understood that. So I spoke to him early in the morning before he went to court. After he came from court, he was disappointed. But you know, again, it wasn't to be expected or we expected the outcome anyways. And so the last thing he said to me on that conversation, our last conversation was that I love you and I'll call you later. And so fast forward a few hours. I think it was about 4 or 5pm Spain time when someone sent me a DM and I got a notification of the DM and it said, OMG, tell me this isn't true in all capital letters. And. And so I don't know why I just immediately thought of John. And I went to Google and that's how I found out that John was dead. And things after that are a Little blurry. But I was able to go to the prison within that same week to collect his belongings. I spoke with the head of the. The guards. I guess he was like the boss or the. He was the boss of. Of all the guards, over all the guards. And he just spoke very highly of John. And he was an exemplary. A prisoner. You know, he didn't cause any trouble, and he was always smiling and always engaging with everyone. And so they were very surprised, very shocked at what happened to him. You know, they. It was just unbelievable to. To them because especially that gentleman, he said he had spoken to John after he had come from court. So there was no. There was no evidence or that he was thinking about harming himself, you know, and so for things to have ended that way, they were very shocking to the people in the prison. And after that, I think by the end of the week, I was able to go to their morgue and identify John. So I was in a room and there was a glass window, and John, they brought. Rolled his body in on the other side. But all I was able to see was from his head up. They had everything else covered because they said they were in the middle of the autopsy. And so I wasn't able to see the tattoos or anything, you know, the markers that would have told me for sure that that was him or even just to see if there was bruises on his body, you know. And what.

[Interviewer]

How specifically did he die? Like, what was his method?

[Janice McAfee]

Shoestrings. In the pictures from the cell, there were shoestrings, a lot of shoestrings around his neck. It was, you know, kind of this thick around his neck. So there was a lot of shoestrings. But you could see from the picture that. That it was shoestrings.

[Interviewer]

And so wasn't there something fishy with, like, the way they dealt with him when they found him?

[Janice McAfee]

So let me get to that. I'm sorry, I don't get into that. So the prison opened an investigation into John's death immediately after, which was strange because they were the ones that released that he had killed himself by that. Right. That they. And so in their report, John actually wasn't dead when they found him. He was alive. They. He. His breathing was shallow and his pulse was faint, but he was still, you know, breathing. He was still alive. Yeah. And so in the security footage, they send in a medical response team, and they come and they bring John's body out and lay him in the hall, and they begin to do. They put the thing over his mouth and they're pumping air and they're doing chest compressions for, you know, over 10 minutes. They're doing this before they call it. And then they put his body back into the cell and they take the picture. So in any ways from, from the report, it's reported that John was. So he had the shoestrings around his neck, but he was. There was something that was connecting him to the window. So that's how he was found. He was found hanging from the window in his cell, which is not a high window. Right.

[Interviewer]

And so, like, it wouldn't have been tall enough.

[Janice McAfee]

No, not at all. And the guard actually made it a point to let me know that his feet were on the floor when. When they found him, which, which was interesting to me because it made me think of. Not that John is similar to Jeffrey Epstein, but it made me think of that because that. I believe that's what was reported about him as well, you know, that how would he have, you know, he was a very tall man, and so how would he have. And so, yes, so his feet were on the floor, and whatever it was he was attached to the window with, they burned it off to bring him down. So that evidence was destroyed. And also in the pictures in the investigation report, you still see the shoestrings tied around his neck. Now, I don't think that they cut it off and then laid it back on his, you know, for just the picture purposes. So that means that they were then, you know, doing these chest compressions and giving him oxygen with this, you know, shoestring noose around his neck.

[Interviewer]

You know, was it still super tight or was it loose?

[Janice McAfee]

It had to have been, because what.

[Interviewer]

If they took it off the window, though, maybe?

[Janice McAfee]

Well, like I said, he was. There was something attached to the. What was around his neck and around the, you know, at the window. So I don't know if that was something separate from what.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

He, you know, or if that would have loosened what was around his neck in any way. But still, why would you not remove what's around his neck before trying to save his life? Right. Because it seems that that would defeat the purpose, you know, of whatever you're trying to do. Because why. I'm not sure why they would have went in with oxygen and chest compressions anyways, when he had a heartbeat and he was breathing. So I'm not sure what, what should have been done in that instance, but I don't. I don't know that that would have been the right protocol.

[Interviewer]

So he had, he. He had a pulse yes, his heart was beating and he was breathing. Faint pulse, but he was unconscious.

[Janice McAfee]

Shallow breathing? Yes.

[Interviewer]

So what was the cause of death?

[Janice McAfee]

They say asphyxiation. That's what they. They were saying.

[Interviewer]

So maybe there was so much damage to his windpipe or something like this that he couldn't possibly.

[Janice McAfee]

I don't know. That's. And that's the problem is that they never released the full autopsy report. We got basically, like a summary. So it's like four pages.

[Interviewer]

And you were the only point of contact. You were the only emergency contact for.

[Janice McAfee]

His attorney was as well.

[Interviewer]

His attorney wasn't him and you.

[Janice McAfee]

And he. Him and his. He had two Spanish attorneys. So both Spanish attorneys. And neither of them were contacted when John died? No. So none of us were contacted. We learned. We all learned of his death through the news.

[Interviewer]

Wow. Do you think it's possible that if. If he was murdered, who do you think would have been behind it?

[Janice McAfee]

I don't know. You know, I don't know who would have given the orders, but obviously the people. Someone in the prison. Obviously.

[Interviewer]

Right. Well, somebody in the prison could have been paid to do it, but somebody obviously powerful. Who.

[Janice McAfee]

Obviously. I mean. And your guess is as good as mine. You know, we could. There's a whole host of people that we could begin to name, you know, that John, you know, would have named. You know, he had issues with a lot of people. He made it a point to make issues with a lot of powerful people, you know, and so again, it could be anyone, you know.

[Interviewer]

Now, at the end of the. The Netflix documentary.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Yeah. Samantha.

[Interviewer]

Samantha, whose dad or uncle or something was the Attorney General of Guatemala.

[Janice McAfee]

That was Amy.

[Interviewer]

That was a different girl. Okay. Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

So this is. Oh, no, no, I'm sorry. Yes, this was Samantha. I apologize. You're correct. You are correct. Yes. Samantha's uncle.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so Samantha, she says that John called her up two weeks after his death.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, why did she say that?

[Janice McAfee]

She probably was paid to say it.

[Interviewer]

What?

[Janice McAfee]

I would think so.

[Interviewer]

Just to, like, spice up the documentary.

[Janice McAfee]

I think so. Because now I. I don't know. I can't speak for certain that John wouldn't have, you know, been in contact with her. But I can say that after he came back from Guatemala and he was, you know, interacting with Samantha, he then began to field her calls through me. So he would say, it's Samantha. You know, answer this and talk to her, because she was just asking for money, you know, is always, you know, I need money for this or that. And, well, why?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Why would he. If he fakes his death, he would definitely tell you, right? Not her. I mean, he wouldn't tell her.

[Janice McAfee]

He would have. I, you know, I don't know, but I honestly, I just believe it was just obviously to spice up the, the podcast or the. I'm sorry, the documentary.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

You know, because what else did they have, you know, other than that of retelling the same story, basically, which is what they did. I mean, obviously there was some new stuff because I was included in there, but Robert King had so much more footage that he could have shared to tell a more total story. And maybe he'll come out with that. I would hope so, because it is really fascinating than, than just this little snippet of what you were able to see. There's so much more footage. Yeah, than that.

[Interviewer]

Well, to get, to get it down to a two hour film, imagine there's a lot of stuff you got to delete out of there.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, yeah, I would imagine so. But I would imagine it would be like a series, though.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's true.

[Janice McAfee]

Because It's. It's John McAfee. He's fascinating.

[Interviewer]

If they can do a series on Epstein, they can do in a series.

[Janice McAfee]

Right. And I think people would want to. Want to watch that. You know, I would watch it.

[Interviewer]

Listen, I just learned about this badass new feature that YouTube's rolling out called subscribe. Over 50. One of the people that watch the show haven't hit our subscribe button. So if you just hit that little red button below, you're going to help us continue to get more exciting guests for you to listen to. Thank you for your time on this matter.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, I would, I would love to see someone do a documentary on John that is not so obviously biased, you know, obviously trying to tell a singular story which, which both Running with the Devil and Gringo was, you know, trying to tell this story of this crazy madman who, you know, went off the rails, which was not at all the case.

[Interviewer]

You know, out of all the documentaries, which one do you think is the most accurate?

[Janice McAfee]

Neither of them, but I think not even close. But I liked, I enjoyed Running with the Devil. It was entertaining.

[Interviewer]

It was definitely. Yeah, it was more guerrilla style filmmaking. You know what I mean?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Which was. I liked. I like this. The style of it. It was really good. But the, the Gringo was just absolute horse crap. I don't know if I can curse, but I'm not cursing. And I, I shared some information with Steve. With Steve, yes. He wants to share. But anyways, but just to get to that, like, all of the people that were a part of the Gringo documentary were actually, um, so. So Nanette Bernstein was actually the one who was reaching out to them. And so all of those people that were into documentary actually called John because they were very much in contact with him and said, you know, hey, Showtime's down here and they're asking us to tell them, you know, all of these lies and stories about you, you know, what should we do? And John, you know, he always would tell them if, you know, if telling them that you saw me eating babies will, will get them to pay you more money, you just, you tell them that, you know, and you, and you get money because I'm not there to help you guys, you know, And a lot of these people worked for him. Worked, you know, in the companies that he started. Yeah, because he started a, a boat taxi service, he had a coffee shop, but he had all the locals running these things. So he, he built it up and, and then gave it over to the locals to run. So. So that's why I, I didn't really like the Gringo. I actually never really watched it. You know, I watched maybe a snippet of it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I never saw that one, but I've seen, I've heard about it.

[Janice McAfee]

It's trash, actually. Absolute trash. Because if you're having to pay people to say what you want them to say, I mean, how trustworthy can you be, you know, when. When the actual story of John is fascinating on its own.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

You know, and it can stand on its own.

[Interviewer]

Well, I mean, the, the Running with the Devil documentary, it really made it feel like he was, he was, he was treating the world and his life as if he was playing like a real life Grand Theft Auto.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like he was living his own video game.

[Janice McAfee]

But we were, though we were very much on the run. They were. We. So we left America because there was a grand jury that was convened and they were going to come and arrest him sort of like in the middle of the night on these tax. Tax related charges. Right. And so he found out about it from an attorney that he had in Tennessee and decided to leave. But I think he had notions of it before then because he purchased the boat that we left on the Great Mystery is the name of the boat, the Freedom Boat. And over the course of the summer of 2018, he was, you know, having it restored so that it could be ready. And so by January 2019, it was ready and we did, we left. We ended up leaving and we went to the Bahamas because they don't have income tax. And so obviously he then could not be extradited back to America for something that's not a crime in the country where he was. And so while we were there, there was actually information. Not sure how he got it, but information that he was going to be arrested on anything, you know, trumped up, you know, charges, drunken, you know, in public, being drunk in public or something, just to get him in custody so that he can be shipped back to America. So we ended up leaving and going to Cuba, which. Cuba is amazing, if you've never been.

[Interviewer]

No, I've never seen documentaries. It looks amazing.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, it's. It's really weird because it's like you're going back in time, back into the 50s, because everything's kind of stuck there, but the people are so beautiful there. Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

At what point in time were you guys there?

[Janice McAfee]

So this would have been the summer of 2019. So about May, June, July. Ish. Well, by July, we were in Europe and Cuba doesn't.

[Interviewer]

The U.S. no.

[Janice McAfee]

Which is why we thought we would be safe. And we were, for a little bit of time, you know, John was tweeting, you know, about his affinity for Cuba and all of the things. And then maybe about a month into that stay, we were called into a general's office and he basically told John that, you know, they're being pressured by whoever in the States to, you know, send John back to America, but they didn't want to do that. But we had 72 hours to leave.

[Interviewer]

That was cool. They gave you a heads up.

[Janice McAfee]

So we left Cuba and we went to the Dominican Republic, and when we got there, they were actually waiting for us to arrive there. They had cleared all of the. The docks from the. Of the boats that may have been there, and they moved them all to the back. So we were the only boat that came in. And they had soldiers strategically placed with machine guns, you know, kind of just ready for. I'm not sure what they were expecting us to do, but it was crazy.

[Interviewer]

So in the documentary, in the Running with the Devil, they cut out all. There was no Cuba footage?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, no Cuba footage. They.

[Interviewer]

I don't know, I figured, like, that would have been a really cool part.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, it was really cool in Cuba. It was. It was a really good time because Robert was there with us. He was there really. He was there in the Dominican Republic. Yeah. So he left America with us and he was filming all of this. So he's, you know, the Bahamas. He Was there Cuba, Dominican Republic. And then we parted ways at that time because when we got to the Dominican Republic, they. They made us stay on our boat and they, they wouldn't allow us to get off the boat. And we had our four dogs with us as well, so. And we had run out of water and food. We were hungry and we stank and it was. It was bad. So I'm not sure what. We weren't sure what they were doing or why they wouldn't allow us to get off the boat. To do the normal check in, you know, you speak to customs and immigration and, you know, declare what you need to declare. And so we had our weapons out, we. Guns at the time. So we had them out, unloaded, bullets, everything on the table, ready to declare this to the customs. And then this man and woman came onto the boat like a couple hours later, and they went inside, they made us surrender our phones. They went inside of our boat and they spent like at least an hour in there. I'm not sure what they were doing. We later found out that they were trying to find John's money. John had a large amount of cash, I think a hundred thousand dollars on him. And obviously we had to declare that in Cuba. Now, how they found out about it there in the Dominican Republic, not sure. But they took us then, you know, after all of this, they then took us to a holding facility which was a jail, but they let us be in the cafeteria. So we weren't really detained, but we were detained. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You guys had brought the cameras in there and stuff?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. And so four days we. We spent there. They finally, day two maybe, or day three, they finally let one of our security go back to the boat to take care of the dogs, because the dogs have been on the boat now all this whole time. No food, no water, not able to use the bathroom, you know, so we were able to have someone take care of them. And then they took us to immigration and, you know, they told us, okay, we, we are sending you all back to your country of origin, which was fine. But then John said, you know, well, I have dual citizenship, so I want to go to the uk and they said, no, you have to go back to the U.S. so this began a little bit of a battle. John hired two attorneys to fight this in the courts so that he wouldn't have to go back. And they, you know, obviously they needed time to file their paperwork and everything. So this time, John. You probably heard that John faked a heart attack in Guatemala. Yeah, well, this time he faked A stroke, right? So after they had returned his money and they were counting it out to make sure they were going to give it to him. So before they did that, John is sitting in a room across from me. And so he comes back over and he says, don't, you know, don't be worried. I'm just doing my thing. And so I'm like, okay. So he goes back over, and he's sitting there for a while, and then all of a sudden, he falls over on his face and hits the floor. And it's super funny because everyone was just looking at him like, sir, please get up. We know you're faking. Like, that was the look on their face. And so, you know, after a little bit of time, he comes to and he's like, oh, my God. Where am I? Who are you people? Where's my wife? I want to see my wife. What are you doing? And so then our security came over and he said, sir, it's me. It's Steve. He said, no, get away from me. I didn't know you. It was really. He's a really good. He was a really good actor, right? It was really quite convincing. And so. So, yeah, it was. It was good stuff. So then I was able to. They. They finally allowed me to go and speak to him, and he's like, where have you been? Where are we? What's happening? You know, he's still putting all this on, and so I, you know, I'm talking to him like, it's okay. You're safe, you know, and, you know, in his ear, I whispered to him, as I was hugging him, I said, they're taking me to the airport. I have to go. So, you know, just be safe. I don't know. And I'm just saying goodbye. And so they took me to the airport with everyone else. We had one security was from the Bahamas, one who's from Haiti. So he was going back to Haiti and Bahamas, and Robert King was being sent back to the States. And when we got to the airport, they called and said to bring me back because he was in the hospital. And so when I get there, he's got his legs up, and he's just chilling. He's on his phone having a margarita. Not quite, but, you know, he's chilling. And so they kept trying to go and take him for tests, you know, to see if he's okay. And he's like, no, I'm okay. That's okay. I don't want to do that. And finally the attorneys came, and, you know, they had Filed what they needed to file. And so John was going to have his day in court, if you will. And so this changed the tune of the head of immigration and he finally said, okay, well where would you like to go? And John said, the uk. So they brought, they bought us tickets, our flights and took us to the airport and we made it into the uk. John got us a hotel with bitcoin. We stayed there. We. So that was a Friday in July. And so before the government could open up on Monday, we actually left on, on Sunday and went deeper into, into Europe. And so that's, we went on a European road trip, which was pretty cool actually. That's how our relationship started. Well, that was kind of the first thing we did. We went on a three week road trip after I had met him in Miami. And so it was, it was cool to have a European road trip. And then we eventually made our way into Spain. We were hanging out and.

[Interviewer]

Okay, okay. And that was the, basically the end of it. He left and then he went into prison in Spain and.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So that was a good little like prequel to like the end of it. But let's, let's rewind and go to like the very beginning of the story. And then. So for people who may not be familiar, can you like give a brief summary of how he came to be and like the antivirus software company, how he made his money and then got to meeting you?

[Janice McAfee]

Okay, perfect. So John was born. Just kidding. So, so the story that he told me of how he got into the antivirus is that he was at his house and his brother in law had come over and there was a news article about a computer virus. And he, you know, once his brother in law showed him the news story, he was like, oh, well, I could figure this out. You know, he kind of came up with a solution on the spot of how, you know, to, to rectify the, the issue. I'm not even sure what the, I think it was Pakistani brain or something was the virus that had come out. And so he was just really intrigued by it. And that's what he liked to do, solve problems. And so that's what he began working on this antivirus.

[Interviewer]

And did he work for NASA?

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, he worked for NASA.

[Interviewer]

And that's crazy.

[Janice McAfee]

On the Apollo program worked also, but I'm not sure about that.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that was in the documentary, definitely. Okay, yeah, that would have been like, you know, the 60s, late 60s, early 70.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, he also worked for Xerox. There was a lot of black programs that he worked on things that, that even at the time when he would speak about that, he said he still, you know, there were things he still couldn't speak about.

[Interviewer]

Really. He honored that stuff even after he freaking fled the U.S. yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Wow. That's pretty cool. And yeah, he had top. Top clearance, I guess it is obviously have to. And he. He often would joke about how, like, why he was able to get that because he was completely honest about everything that they asked him. You know, if he did drugs, if he sold drugs, if he, you know, into kinky sex. I don't know, whatever. They ask the very intimate questions that they ask people. And he was just super honest about that. And so. So the antivirus comes on the scene and he was actually initially just giving out, giving it away, like to the individual users. Right. And he actually sold his product to the government. They were his first. The military was his first customers. Military. Then the FBI, CIA, all of the.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

These agencies became his first customers. And that's how he made his millions. But he didn't stay long in the company. John was not made for boardrooms and, you know, board of directors. It just, you know. Yeah. So that didn't last very long at all. I think he was. He was out by 94, 95.

[Interviewer]

And they got bought out by Microsoft. Right.

[Janice McAfee]

Intel.

[Interviewer]

Intel, yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Until. For seven billion. Yeah. But this was long after his time there, so.

[Interviewer]

7 billion in the 90s?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Oh. Oh, no, not at that time. I'm sorry, I'm speaking fast forwarding. I think sometime in 2015 ish or something.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure actually, who. Who bought him out?

[Interviewer]

Steve can Google it.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Okay. And so he built this really nice compound, I guess if you want to call it that, in Colorado Springs. He actually took me there. It was really cool because he had a bunch of different, like little cabins and properties on the main property. It's a really awesome house. His. His homes were like his works of art. Right. And they were just really intricately laid out and designed and. And really beautiful.

[Interviewer]

So anyway, definition of eccentric.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And so he had a lot of other companies in. In between their Tribal Voice was one of them. He had an instant messaging, I think as well.

[Interviewer]

Sold McAfee Associates in 1994, the same year he stepped down as chief executive. Does it say who bought it? He just sold his. Oh, he sold his stakes. Yeah. Steak in 94. Okay, I gotcha.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. And then also Tribal voice. It talks about his tribal voice, which sold. I think he said something 17 million POW hours, the messaging system.

[Interviewer]

Was he forced to sell?

[Janice McAfee]

No, I think he just got bored.

[Interviewer]

Oh, really?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, he was someone that got bored really, really easily. You know, he liked to create things and. And once the excitement of that has had worn off, you know, he'd go move on to. To other things. So he was. His nephew. His nephew died while he was living in New Mexico. And I think that was a very pivotal point for him because that's when he decided to live. Live and live in Belize, and it was a devastating loss for him. And.

[Interviewer]

Okay, I thought he was living in Belize because of the. He got in trouble for not paying taxes.

[Janice McAfee]

No, no, no, no, no. He had been paying taxes up until that point. Like, he spoke about that a lot about. I think he said upwards of 50 million in taxes that he had paid, you know, over the course of his wealth, and he just didn't feel like he got $50 million worth of assistance from. Yeah. So. So that's why, you know, I think as well, with age, you. You just don't give a.

[Interviewer]

You don't care.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. You just don't care anymore about, you know, about things. And so that was just a hill he's willing to die on, you know.

[Interviewer]

And he had a really. They laid. They laid out in the documentary when he hires that ghostwriter.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

To write a book about him and he starts confiding all this about his early life and his abusive father.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then they're speculating that he might have killed his own dad because he was beating the. Out of his mom.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes. This was a speculation. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Did he ever talk to you about that?

[Janice McAfee]

No, not directly, but he did say he spoke a lot about the abuse. But. But, but from what I understand, his dad killed himself. So. Yeah. You know, but it was very bad abuse. I do know that. You know, like broken arms, hospital visits, you know, and. And no one, you know, much like it is now, no one really gets into, you know, domestic issues, you know, that's between that husband and that wife, you know, and. And so I think that was probably difficult for him as well, to not have anyone come and help, you know, even though they knew what was going on. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine that any child or seeing their mother get the beat out of them by their dad constantly while he's simultaneously probably abusing you.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like, I can't imagine anybody not having the feeling or desire to want to kill that person.

[Janice McAfee]

Definitely.

[Interviewer]

So it's not like it wouldn't be not saying you should kill people. But, like, I don't think that's. If I was the judge, I wouldn't.

[Janice McAfee]

It would be understandable.

[Interviewer]

Right, right.

[Janice McAfee]

But. But then again, we have women who are abused by men who are actually sitting in prison now for killing said men.

[Interviewer]

That's crazy.

[Janice McAfee]

So, you know, I don't know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's the way the law sucks all around. Yeah, it does.

[Janice McAfee]

So this is. So that again, was why he moved to. To Belize, you know, was. Because this is what he has had relayed to me. So when he, when he went to Belize, he was fully intending on retiring there. Like, that's where he was going to live out the rest of his day. So everything with. With him, the. His wealth, so he had bank accounts, all of the things. He was building homes, he was meeting women. So he had this harem, as I think some news reporter reported, he had a harem of seven women, Belizean women who were living with him. And, and so he was just enjoying his life, you know, but he. I think what people didn't understand is that he was also changing those women's lives, which is why I was interested in him. But we'll get to that part when we get there. But. But Amy was one of the women who he built a home for.

[Interviewer]

Oh, he built her her own home.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, he built her her own home. Samantha as well, built her her own home. I think there was one other Tamisha as well, built her her own home that was hers that she owned. Amy, from the last that I heard, still had her home, and she was working for one of the wealthiest men on the island. He put her through school, he got her a tutor, so she was able to finish high school. Taught her English, you know, so changed her life, you know, in a way that she could then thrive after him, you know, and so this was what he was trying to do for. For all of them, for Samantha, didn't really pan out for her in that way because I think when you are in that lifestyle, either, either you. You're either going to sink or swim when you meet an opportunity like John McAfee, you know, where it's like, like you're either going to abuse it or you're going to take it for what it is. An opportunity to change your life. Right. To change your circumstances, to change your destiny, if you will. Right. Yeah. And so, so anyways, fast forward.

[Interviewer]

Do you want to cash out now or do you want to play the long game?

[Janice McAfee]

Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And for some, the long game is okay. Yeah. How can I get as much money out of this person as possible. But for me, the long game was how do I, how do I, how do I turn over new leaf or whatever, you know, whatever. Because I was very inspired by, by what I learned about Amy. Like that was, that was just amazing to me to hear, to hear her speaking. Now she didn't speak to me directly, she didn't like me for whatever reason, but you know, just to listen. John will let me listen in on the conversations, you know, he would tell her, you know, I was there, you know, listening. And just to hear her how changed her life was, you know, was just a beautiful thing for me to, to witness. But anyways, back to police. And so, you know, John's there living there, doing his thing. He's. He's opened up a coffee shop because he wanted coffee. So he has a coffee shop. He's got this taxi ferry going because he couldn't get anywhere on time, you know, with the current, whatever means of getting around on the island. So he, he bought boats and, and did that. He donated money and equipment to the local police because I think it was where Amy was living or where her home was. You know, he wanted her to be somewhere that was safe. So he donated equipment and money there. And so he's doing all of these things. And in the midst of that as well, he has built this lab, which was not a meth lab, but it was a lab. And he was working actually on topical antivirus. And the plant that was being used was, was local to the jungles there in Belize. And so he had created some samples that he was giving out to the locals. And this was to solve an issue that he was having when he came back from Guatemala. He had all of these like bite marks all over his arms and all over his legs. And so that was what the topical antivirus was for, you know, and it really was working.

[Interviewer]

You know, he was developing all kinds of crazy drugs. I heard some like crazy sex drugs.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, I think Joe Rogan said the best Smith was what he said. I think it was.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot he went on Joe Rogan's show. Yeah, well, there was a call in. It was one of the only call INS Joe ever did.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, yeah. And he was, he was trying to get on there after, after that as well, but I think for whatever reason it didn't work out. But, but yeah, there were no drugs. I think there was, there was articles about how there was the raid on his property and there was no drugs found, but no one wants to Care about that? No. Everyone wants to believe that. Obviously he was making. But which would be stupid for an American agreeing a white man to go into the jungles of Belize, right. Where this. Where the cartels have the stronghold on the drug business there. Right. And set up shop there. There's no way that he. He would not have survived a month there if that's what he was actually.

[Interviewer]

If he was cooking.

[Janice McAfee]

Right. Actually, like, seriously. But so.

[Interviewer]

But there was like the bath salts too, right? Like there was this crazy bath salts he was doing.

[Janice McAfee]

I don't. I don't. I don't know. I wouldn't call them bath salts.

[Interviewer]

He said it was like 10. In the documentary, they said it was like 10 times better than cocaine.

[Janice McAfee]

So I. I don't know about that. Okay. But I do know he was getting some. A supplement, I guess I would call it, from China. He definitely was doing that, and he definitely used that. And this, as he, you know, shared with me, was something that he used because he was meant to have bypass on his heart. And so he went into finding these sort of natural remedies because he didn't want to have to do that. And so I guess somehow that led to stimulants. Could.

[Interviewer]

Could help with that.

[Janice McAfee]

So that's what, that's what he explained to me, what it was he was getting from China. Yeah. And so. So no bath salts, no cocaine. No.

[Interviewer]

Really? No cocaine.

[Janice McAfee]

Weed.

[Interviewer]

That'll be the first drug, I would guess, with John McAfee.

[Janice McAfee]

Right, right. I know, but he was super square. He's. He was super square. Yeah. When we were living in Portland, he had an issue because I was, you know, I was smoking weed. So he was like, you know, they can come in here and bust the door down. And. And because you've got. It's elite. It was illegal at the time in Portland. And I was like, okay, well, I'm gonn, but I'm not going to stop smoking. Like, that's crazy, you know. But eventually he changed his tune once we were in Tennessee, so that. So that became his. His drug, if you will, of choice. Alcohol for sure.

[Interviewer]

But no cocaine.

[Janice McAfee]

No. I mean, that would have been former.

[Interviewer]

We got evidence right here, Janice.

[Janice McAfee]

So funny. That was actually cornstarch that we bought from the store, and that's what the. The label is. Yeah. That was such a fun video. That was.

[Interviewer]

This is the video on how to uninstall.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes. It's so fun, that video. We had the best time that day. Yeah, that is.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that was hilarious.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. And he just Wanted to kind of really play up all of the. The negative press that was going on about him. And so he. We. He took all of the things that was being said about him, and in the beginning of this video, he's reading comments that were actual, real comments that people left about his software.

[Interviewer]

Oh, really?

[Janice McAfee]

And then when it goes to the scene with Bartholomew, who was actually, you know, explaining how to uninstall McAfee, though, that was the actual directions of how to. To authentically uninstall it. So it was. Anyways, it was just a fun time.

[Interviewer]

With that nerdy dude. All the ladies start massaging. Taking his clothes off.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God. That's amazing. He's a real life. He's a real life GTA character. Yeah, that's what he is. I hope gta, they're coming out the new Grand Theft Auto. I hope they put him in there.

[Janice McAfee]

Right. That would be. Someone needs to make a video game.

[Interviewer]

And I think it's gonna be. I think it's in Miami again, too. It's a Miami based one.

[Janice McAfee]

Nice. Because Miami's awesome. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I used to love Miami, but last couple times I've been there, it's just too crowded.

[Janice McAfee]

Say it was weird. So I went. After I was on with Matthew, I went down because I just want, you know, wanted to be there and kind of walked where, you know, I had met John and where we spend time and it is. It's really different. It's strange, actually.

[Interviewer]

I used to. I used to love going there, but the last couple years, every. Every time I've been there, probably like three times in the last two years, and it's just gotten dirtier and more crowded and the traffic's gotten even worse than it used to be.

[Janice McAfee]

It seems really more commercialized is, I guess, would be a good way to describe it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, just more. Way more people. Way more people. Different vibes.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's so crowded. The great thing about Miami is so close to the United States.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so. So no coke? No.

[Janice McAfee]

No coke. Sorry, guys.

[Interviewer]

Just. Just some. Some sex drugs and. And topical antivirus.

[Janice McAfee]

Just. Yeah, okay.

[Interviewer]

But at least that's what he said on Rogan.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, I know. I do. And I, you know, I won't comment.

[Interviewer]

I don't think it would be a bad thing if he did that. I think it's. I think it's fine.

[Janice McAfee]

I think. Well, because there's just this connotation when people ask about drug use as it relates to John, and I think that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but all the Best people do drugs. All the most creative people.

[Janice McAfee]

That's how they are creative.

[Interviewer]

All the best musicians did tons of drugs. I don't think it's a bad, you know, as long as you're not like hurting people, forcing them on people, you're fine. You don't do it, you know, treating, doing that stuff to yourself. You're not. It's. It's a victimless crime.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Interviewer]

It's not. I wouldn't even consider it a crime. People been doing drugs since the beginning of man.

[Janice McAfee]

Right. It's just what we do.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

To relax, we got to alter our experience.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. And he, and he definitely was very knowledgeable about all kinds of drugs. So I will say that he wasn't ashamed to talk about his drug use.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

It just didn't happen when, when I was with him. Well, I will say we did do ecstasy one time, which is amazing. Yeah, we went to, we went to Dracula's castle in.

[Interviewer]

Oh, the real one in Transylvania.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes. We went there. It was so awesome. We were listening to like, it was so cool.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wait, what did you say? Ecstasy?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. It's the best day. It was really cool.

[Interviewer]

That sounds really.

[Janice McAfee]

I don't remember a lot of it. I just remember it was cool.

[Interviewer]

Was a documentary guy with you?

[Janice McAfee]

No.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

He wasn't there.

[Interviewer]

Damn it.

[Janice McAfee]

But it was a lot of fun. We had a. We had a good time. So. Yeah. Okay, so.

[Interviewer]

So back to the belief.

[Janice McAfee]

Sorry, I'll get there. I'll get through that as quickly as possible. So anyways, they come to his lab or they come to his property. There was.

[Interviewer]

Doesn't have to be quick. We can take our time.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay, good, because I may need a pee break.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Janice McAfee]

But. So there were two representatives that came to John's property. Government officials in some capacity that came to his property and were offering him, you know, land and, and tax breaks and women and whatever it is that his heart desired. If he was willing to give a two million dollar donation to, I'm assuming, the leading political party that was currently in office. And John said, you know, no, thank you, and you know, and they left. So I think he said about a week later they came back, or the GSU came back, which was the Gang Suppression Unit, came back to his property, raided his property. They had him handcuffed for, you know, a long time. You know, I think 12, 14 hours or so.

[Interviewer]

This is after he declined the 2 million?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, after he declined, they destroyed his lab. They.

[Interviewer]

They shoot his dog.

[Janice McAfee]

They did shoot his dog, his deaf dog. They shot his dog right in front of him. Yeah, right in front of him. So. So naturally, this enraged him. They arrested him as well, for. They said he had an illegal firearm, which was actually not the case because he was able to produce the license for it until they let him go and they dropped that charge. And then they came back a week after that and asked him if he changed his mind. And he said, get the F off my property. And so this, for him began war. Now. Now it's war.

[Interviewer]

They asked him, please donate $2 million to the. This political party. And in exchange, they were going to give him a bunch of land, a bunch of girls, unlimited stuff. Live like a king here. He said, no, I'm not into this, I'm not into politics, whatever. So a week later, they sent in the SWAT team to raid his house and kill his dog.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then they come back a couple days later saying, have you reconsidered?

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And he still said f off.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes. Yeah. So. So now he's angry. Right. And you don't want John McAfee angry.

[Interviewer]

John McAfee turned into John Wick.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, yes. Very quickly. It didn't take. Didn't take much. And so what he decided to do was gift computers, laptops to secretaries, girlfriends, boyfriends of people who were, like, high up. High up in the government. Right. So. And on these laptops, it had key logging information. Right. Spyware. Yeah. And so naturally they took the. The laptops, not questioning, you know, them or anything. And so he began to.

[Interviewer]

How many laptops do you know?

[Janice McAfee]

I don't know. He just. He never. I don't think I've ever really heard him say how many.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

Or to whom exactly they. He sent them to. And so he began collecting information. What he was looking for was just information that he had been set up for this raid on his property because he was demanding an apology from the Prime Minister. And instead what he found was. Was drug trafficking, human trafficking, murder for hire, all sorts of evidence of illegal money laundering, all sorts of things that was being perpetrated by people high up in the government. And so. So now I think he would. He, you know, obviously.

[Interviewer]

So they were working with all these cartels and gangs and all this criminal stuff.

[Janice McAfee]

Well, naturally. I mean, this is what happens in.

[Interviewer]

These kind of countries.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, this is just what happened. And so.

[Interviewer]

But he had hard evidence of it. Like he had emails and receipts and stuff.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, he had all. All the things. Right. For. Because this was going on for months a Couple of months before they found out that. About what he was doing.

[Interviewer]

And this is obviously. So just to, like, really clear up the context here, we're talking about Belize. Before you met him, right?

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, before I met him. And so all of this that I'm relaying to you is things that he relayed to me and then also that he's spoken about in, you know, various interviews as well. And so. So I think the braid happened maybe April of 2012, and they maybe found out about August because he was on the run for a couple of months before his neighbor was shot and killed. And so.

[Interviewer]

He was on the run.

[Janice McAfee]

So he was on the run in Belize. So he was going and hiding out at different properties.

[Interviewer]

So he wasn't staying at his main house anymore?

[Janice McAfee]

No. And so when his neighbor died, he wasn't actually in. In. In that home. He wasn't staying in that home.

[Interviewer]

Did he have, like, hard evidence, like, an alibi for that?

[Janice McAfee]

I would imagine so. I mean, he was with Samantha, so she, you know, would have been his alibi. She was actually with him on the run while all this happened. Because what happened was they found out about the computers because he hired women to kind of parse through the information looking for things related to him. Right. And so one of these women was sleeping with the, I believe, the head of the G women.

[Interviewer]

To infiltrate the government.

[Janice McAfee]

No, no, no, no. To. To parse through the information that he was collecting.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes. So to cut. To find out, you know, what was related to him, if there was anything that was related to.

[Interviewer]

Right, right.

[Janice McAfee]

To him, what was going on with him. So. And one of these women was sleeping with, I believe, the head of the GSU or the head of the police department or something. Okay. And so during pillow talk, she kind of just blurted out, you know, what she was doing for John McAfee until. That's how they found out, and that's why he had to go on the run. And so when his neighbor was murdered, John believed that it was actually a botched hit on him, and it was an actual. An actual attempt on trying to murder him. But they went to the wrong house.

[Interviewer]

Well, didn't the neighbor poison his dogs?

[Janice McAfee]

He didn't believe that. He thought it was maybe the. The g. The police. I don't. I don't know the gsu, But. But the police, you know, obviously, anyone could have done that. Could have, you know, thrown, you know, meat over the fence, which was probably what. What happened.

[Interviewer]

And there was a beef between the. The neighbor was pissed off at John's dog.

[Janice McAfee]

I heard about that, and John spoke about that, and he never knew about a complaint, an official complaint that was lodged by the neighbor. But he said everybody complained about the dogs. Not just the neighbor. You know, even he complained about the dogs. They weren't actually his dogs. They were just dogs that were homeless.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

That, you know, he would bring to his property. I think he said he came to Belize with maybe collect stray dogs. But, yeah. He had like, 20 dogs. Wow. @ the time. And so. Yeah. And. And there was actually nine dogs that were poisoned. Wow. Yeah. Nine of them.

[Interviewer]

And they were, like, suffering. And he had to, like, shoot all of them.

[Janice McAfee]

Them. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

See, if. Hypothetical situation, if that happened to my dogs, and I thought it was. And I. If I knew if I had evidence that the neighbor poisoned and killed nine of my dogs, and I'm in some foreign country where I could probably get away with murder, I would consider murdering that guy.

[Janice McAfee]

Well, I think it would have been smarter than to wait till the next day. Right. I mean, at least that's the timeline wise of how they're saying that this happened, that the very next day.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

John would have went in and did that.

[Interviewer]

I wouldn't think you would be smarter, you know, because it's just like. It makes too much sense to say, like, they're gonna easily. It's just. It's so easy to point to him as being the guy who killed him because, like, you know, one plus two equals three. The guy poisoned your dogs. You had to execute your own dogs. You know, this guy hate your dogs, and you went out and murdered him. Like, it's. It's an easy case to prosecute. Like, it's a.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

So, yeah, there is that. You would think he would be smarter than that.

[Janice McAfee]

And he was, you know, but. But again, he was not at the property. Again, this is what he.

[Interviewer]

He wasn't even there.

[Janice McAfee]

He's always. Always said that he wasn't. He wasn't staying at the property because they were looking for him at the property. They were kind of, you know, waiting on the beach so that they could arrest him. Well, not arrest him, obviously. They were just going to take him custody, and he would have disappeared. We would have never heard anything more of John McAfee. So. And this is why he. He refused to go back to Belize to be questioned. Now, he was never wanted for murder. I think I sent something to Steve. One of the articles from. In Belize. You know, one of the papers in Belize, there was an article saying that he wasn't wanted for Murder. But he was wanted for questioning, and he offered to be questioned. Any in any neutral area, you know, other than Belize. He just refused to go to Belize. He wasn't going to go there. And so. Because obviously he was concerned for his safety, you know.

[Interviewer]

Police chief.

[Janice McAfee]

Oh, this was in the Bahamas. John was going to docks. The. The police chief, as well as the CIA agent was behind trying to have him collected in the Bahamas. Arrested illegally.

[Interviewer]

What's the one we're looking for here?

[Janice McAfee]

It's going to be. I don't see it there.

[Interviewer]

The only articles are this one and this guy.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, there's that one. This was an article as well. And there. There it is. No, not that one. I'm sorry, there's another one, but that's him demanding the apology. This is from Edward McCoy, who was actually in the documentary, who talked about how he was approached and offered money to give his story that he gave. And in the documentary, we were trying.

[Interviewer]

To find an article.

[Janice McAfee]

I'm sorry, we're trying to find an article. I sent you a few pictures, but we can talk about these things while we're looking at it. There it is, the top one. There's not a suspect.

[Interviewer]

McAfee. Not a suspect in the murder case. Police. Police. Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

So this was. Oh, CNBC. I'm sorry, I was.

[Interviewer]

November 15, 2012.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, so. So. So he wasn't actually wanted for murder again.

[Interviewer]

He just wanted to question.

[Janice McAfee]

Wanting to question him. Right. Which is why he didn't have any issues when he came back to America. No one was arresting him or trying to, you know, take him into custody. Right. Because nothing. There was no criminal charges hanging over his head.

[Interviewer]

So the. The Belizean government knew that he tapped into the laptops and they knew that he had dirt on them.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

So he speculated that they need. They wanted to get a hold of him and sort of like, get all of that evidence and figure out exactly what he found out and.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay, exactly. And this is. This continued throughout our relationship. This was, I believe, the source of all of his issues because they needed to get that information. Now, they could have killed him at any point. Right. If killing him was the goal, but that wasn't the goal. They needed to collect him to find out where the information was and to make sure they had all of the information and destroy it and. And then, you know, they can do it. They could do what they needed to do. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because if they. If they. If they just tried to whack him, they could. He could have, like, a dead man switch or something. That would just release all the footage or give the footage to you and say, give it. To give it to the press if I die.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, so that. So that. I think. I think I covered Belize. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so then you got. So then he left Belize.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And that's when the crew. The documentary crew was with him.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And they went to Guatemala.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, they went to Guatemala and they decided to share a picture saying, we're with McAfee, suckers. And they. Yes, the vice thing, they forgot to take the EXIF data out. And so as soon as the picture was posted, people found out exactly where John was. So this is where Samantha's uncle comes into play. And phone call is made to the uncle. He sends his driver to come and get them. To bring them to where the uncle is. Yeah, to the city. And so that's what you see, you know, in the documentary. This is well documented as well, throughout the press, you know, and then Interpol comes, and then. Yeah, all of those.

[Interviewer]

That's when he fixed the heart attack.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, the heart attack, because he needed to. Much similar to the situation in the Dominican Republic. The Attorney General needed time to get the judge to sign off on the putting in the stay of extradition back to police. And so that gave them the time that was needed. And so once, you know, the documented. The documentation was filed with the courts, John magically got better. And then they took him to the airport, and he said it was kind of surreal because all the path or the road to the airport was completely clear of all foot traffic, all car traffic, and there was like a military people kind of stationed escort. Yeah, well, an escort as well, but. But stationed kind of on corners just to make sure that he made it safely.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

To. To the airport. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And where did they take him to after that?

[Janice McAfee]

So he flew into Miami. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So they took him straight from Guatemala.

[Janice McAfee]

I'm. I'm assuming so. Never really got into that, but I'm assuming that he made it. That's what happened. So when he got to Miami, before the plane could get to the gate, the plane was stopped on the tarmac. And he said there was. That. The captain came on, you know, on the radio and said, would John McAfee please come forward? And John said, you know, he's thinking like, crap, what's what now? You know, and there were men in black suits that came on the plane and said, you know, and he kind of was like, well, what. What trouble am I in now? You know, what's going on now? And they said, no, we're Just here to help you, sir. He said, there's, you know, the press is, is out there. You know, it's like 200 press, you know, that are out there. So we want to take you somewhere safely. And so he said, you know, just take me to a taxi stand. So they had cleared out one of the terminals and it was just that taxi that was waiting for him. They put him in the taxi and he went to south beach and he stayed at the Beacon Hotel. So that's where he would normally stay. So he went there because he had no money. He just had the clothes on his back. And so he asked the, I guess whoever, the manager or someone there if they would pay for his taxi and if they would give him a room, you know, kind of just on credit, you know, and he would work out how to, how to pay for it. So they did that.

[Interviewer]

So he hadn't, he didn't have bank.

[Janice McAfee]

Accounts anywhere in Belize.

[Interviewer]

Oh, all his money was in Belize. All of it?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

He didn't have any offshore anywhere else.

[Janice McAfee]

I'm not sure that I would imagine he would have.

[Interviewer]

Like, it's scattered.

[Janice McAfee]

I, I do know that he had like, emergency into these stashes.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Because that was what the road trip was about.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's what. We'll get to that. That's fascinating stuff.

[Janice McAfee]

And so, but at the time, no, he had nothing. So he had, he. He had no money. He. A friend came and brought him $5,000 in five dollar bills. Because that's what he paid me in a thousand.

[Interviewer]

Five thousand and five dollar bills.

[Janice McAfee]

That's super crisp. Yeah. Five dollar bills.

[Interviewer]

That's amazing.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. And a brown paper bag. Yeah. And so, you know, he, he was doing press at the time. I didn't know anything about him. I didn't know he was in Miami. I didn't watch the news, so I didn't know he was in Miami. And I actually wasn't even out that night. It was the 13th of December. I wasn't out that night. It was what year? 2012.

[Interviewer]

2012.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay. So, you know, was at home sleeping, and my pimp calls and he's like, you know, well, why aren't you guys out? It's like, because it's slow. It's a slow night tonight. I don't want to go out. Right.

[Interviewer]

And so, so you were for. We haven't covered this yet, but you were. I'm sorry, you were a working girl.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, I was a prostitute. Yes. Yeah, I was. I had been for almost 10 years at that point.

[Interviewer]

Okay. How Old were you?

[Janice McAfee]

Oh, I just turned 30. My birthday is December 9th, so I just. I just turned.

[Interviewer]

Just turned 30. Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you started when you were 20?

[Janice McAfee]

21.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

Almost 21. Okay. Yeah. And so working. Working the streets. Right. I started off in. In the Bay Area, in Oakland, a little bit in San Francisco. Then we went to la, San Diego, Vegas, a little bit in Denver, you know, and then the Internet became, you know, Craigslist became a thing, or was a thing. And then Backpage, arrows guide, and. And so. So that's what I was doing, you know, Internet and. And the streets, if the Internet was slow. I worked also in. In Phoenix. I hate Phoenix. So hot there. It's the worst place to work on the streets. DC, VA, MD, the DMV, as they call it. Miami. Wow.

[Interviewer]

What was the best place to prostitute? I would imagine Miami.

[Janice McAfee]

Miami was good. Yeah, Miami was good. The DMV was good. Be for me, because I'm black. And so it was just a different vibe there. It was. It was just easier place to make money because there's. There's places where, you know, white girls, you know, are gonna do. Are gonna fare better, you know, and.

[Interviewer]

So I. I always like. One of the crazy things I never understood, which I think is so silly, is that prostitution's illegal.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I think that's one of the dumbest things. It might even be dumber than drugs.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because, you know, there's a. At least there's a case to be made that people can do drugs and, like, get behind a car of the wheel of a car and like, kill somebody or something or. But prostitution, there's no victim. It's. It's the oldest profession.

[Janice McAfee]

Supposed to be a victim, but it.

[Interviewer]

Right, Right. If it's done right.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's the oldest profession.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And it's illegal unless you turn a camera on. Then it's porn and it's legal.

[Janice McAfee]

Right, right.

[Interviewer]

It's so stupid.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Anyways.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. And maybe there would be ex. Less exploitation.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

Of the people that are, you know, forced one way or another to find themselves in that. In the occupation. Yeah. So, yeah, I think Miami, probably. Yeah. Best place. DMV as well. So, yeah, I was working there. I had been. We had been in Miami for what, a year, year and a half maybe, before I met John. And so I go out, you know, reluctantly. I go out now, it's after midnight, so it's December 14, 2012. And I go to a place called Mangoes, that was kind of the night spot. Clevelander was kind of Shutting down. So this is on Ocean Drive. I'm sorry, Ocean Drive, for anyone not familiar with Miami. And I was sitting outside of. Of Mangoes and decided that me and my girlfriend, or the, the other girl that was working for my pimp, that we were going to go to Fort Lauderdale to the casino, to the Hard Rock. And so we leave. And I actually happened to park our car across from the Beacon Hotel, which I don't normally park over there, but we were. That's where we were parked. So that's where we were walking to. And I actually saw John standing outside of Johnny Rockets talking to a worker there. And when I passed him, he, you know, we. We made eye contact and I smiled at him and nodded and I kind of sized him up really quickly. Like, you know, he doesn't have any money and he doesn't look interesting.

[Interviewer]

He looks like a bum.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, I did, right, because that's so funny. I don't know how wrong I was, but yeah, that's what so funny. That's how I sized him up. And so, you know, we proceed to, to get to the Beacon Hotel, and that's when the night manager comes out. And, you know, we've chit chatted before, you know, just asking him, you know, what's going on tonight, who's in town or the police out harassing girls, just trying to get a feel for what's happening, you know, that night. And, you know, while we're talking, he happens to look down and he says, well, you know that. That guy is down there. Yeah. And I was like, no, I don't know who that is. He said, well, that's John McAfee. And I'm like, okay, well, who's that? And he said, well, that's the, the. Do you know the McAfee antivirus? And I said, yeah. And he said, well, that's the guy who, who created that. And so, you know, immediately I was like, you know, and. But I still was not sure that I wanted to. But anyways, I was just, just like, okay, well, let's just see what happens, right? You know, so I, I go down, I'm walking back towards where he was, and he's now made it to the News Cafe. And he was smoking a cigarette until. While he was smoking his cigarette, I asked him for one just to kind of open up the conversation. And while he was lighting my cigarette, he asked me, you know, what are you girls out here doing drugging and rolling old men? And I said, we don't use drugs. And so he was very intrigued by that response, and invited us to have, you know, to sit and have coffee with him. And so, you know, I went through the whole spill of, you know, would you like, you know, some chocolate tonight? Some vanilla, two for one or, you know, a little swirl, whatever? Yeah, all the things just to get it out of the way, right? Because I'm, you know, I'm with this girl, and so I have to, you know, give the appearance of trying to do business, else I could get in trouble with the pimp, you know, if I'm not teaching her the right thing. So anyways, we went through that, and he was like, I'm really not interested. I said, okay, well, what's your story? Who are you? What brings you to Miami? Business or pleasure? And he was like. He was, like, taken aback by that. He's like, well, I'm, you know, I'm. I've been in the news, you know, for, like, the past couple of weeks here, you know, especially here. I was like, okay, well, I don't watch the news, so. So who are you? He's almost. Almost insulted a little bit that I didn't know who he was. And so he just began to tell me, you know, his. His story of how he. He came to be in Miami and all of the things that I just relayed to you about his time in Belize. And so. Not in such great detail that I've told you, but yes. And, you know, overall. And so he then also began to tell me about the girls, you know, the girls that he met. I'm not sure how the conversation shifted to them, but he was telling me about the girls. And that's when I learned about Amy and. And Samantha. Just the intention, Intimate, more intimate things of him building houses for them and. And all the things he did for them. And so, you know, a couple of hours has passed by, you know, while we're having this conversation, but while we're sitting there, the way that the News Cafe used to be set up was. There was like, a ground level, if you will, and then there was a lifted area where you came up the stairs. Yeah, the News Cafe right there. It's. They've remodeled it since. But so his. So there was like a wall there for that lifted part. And so he was sitting with his back to the wall. But while we're sitting there for these hours, he's watching very closely people that are walking by, people that are driving by. And so I picked up on that immediately because that's something that I would have to do, you know, being a Working girl, right? You got to keep your head on the swivel and be just aware of your surroundings. And so, so, so there was. I don't. I would say that he was concerned. He was just trying to be aware of his surroundings. So I just, I just made a mental note of that. Was very aware of that while he's telling me this story, you know. And so he asked me to. If I could get rid of my girlfriend because she wasn't really adding much to the conversation. She was high on Molly, so she was. Oh, yeah. And so. So, yeah, I told her that she could go ahead and leave. And so she did when we hung out a little longer. And then he invited me back to his hotel and we went to his room where he. So he goes in and we're in his room and he goes in, in the bathroom. You know, I'm looking around because I'm, you know, I'm just nosy that way, Whatever. And he comes out of the bathroom and he's like, kind of nervously like, like rocking up and down on his tippy toes on the side of the bed, and he's like, would you mind if we just cuddled? And I was like, yeah, sure, we can do that. But in my mind I'm thinking like, okay, like, what kinky sex thing is this? Because I've never heard of cuddling. So like, oh, my God. Trying to go through my Rolodex feels like, okay, whatever it is, I could figure it out.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, I could figure it out. So. But he just wanted to cuddle and so he got in bed and he. He like wrapped himself tightly around me and laid his head on my shoulder and he was sleep in like five minutes, snoring, and it was. It was the best sleep ever. Yeah. And obviously other things happened, obviously. But. But not that night. No, not.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. That seems odd though, doesn't it? What do you think that was about?

[Janice McAfee]

He was tired. He was tired and he just needed a good night's rest, you know, like he just went through all of this life threatening, you know, somebody to, to.

[Interviewer]

Cuddle with, to sleep next to.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, yeah. Well, because he said, you know, while he was in Guatemala, he could have women, you know? You know, he had good coffee, he had all of those things, but he didn't.

[Interviewer]

So like a woman was like the equivalent of a blanket for a normal person. For him.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Like, I can't go to sleep without my blanket, my pillow. He can't go to sleep without a woman.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wild.

[Janice McAfee]

It was pretty cool. Though. And so.

[Interviewer]

So.

[Janice McAfee]

So, yeah, so in the morning, he paid me the 5,000. I mean, a thousand. I'm sorry, a thousand and five. Gave me a thousand and the fives from the 5,000 that he had. And he was getting ready to go and do an interview with Fox News or somebody, and, you know, he said, you can go down and have breakfast, you know, and just charge to the room. And then he said, will you be here when I get back? And I was like, really? You want me to stay? Like, you know, because we don't stay. We're not asked to stay. Right. You know, we're just, you know, whatever.

[Interviewer]

One and done.

[Janice McAfee]

And so was like, okay, yeah, I'll stay. And so he left, and I went down to have breakfast. And while I'm sitting, I'm just at the Beacon. So I'm sitting out front having breakfast, and a taxi pulls up, parks right in front, and the driver gets out of the car and walks directly to me. And he says, hey, so you know John McAfee? And I'm like, no, I don't know who you're talking about. Who's that? And he's like, yeah, okay, well, can you just tell him that his cab driver's here? And I was like, well, I don't know who John McAfee is, so I can't help you. And he's like, okay, well, just tell John McAfee that his cab driver is here. My cab's right there, and I'll be here, you know, when he needs a, you know, taxi. And I was like, I'm. I'm sorry. I really can't help you. I don't know who you're talking about. And so. So now I'm on guard, and I'm like, I'm a little spooked because nobody knew that I was with him, you know, except for the night people, you know, and who. You know, for me, like, who. Why would someone know who I am? Right. You know, And. And who is this taxi driver?

[Interviewer]

And so the dude who worked the front door at the hotel knew who you were, though, Right?

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

At night.

[Janice McAfee]

At night. Right. And so this is now the next morning.

[Interviewer]

Right. Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

Right. So. And it would have been long after shift change. Right. So the night people sure not have been there either. And so this, you know, definitely spooked me. So when John came back, I told him about this cab driver, and he was like, I don't have a cab driver, so I don't even know who that would have been, you know? And so he he told me, though, that there was a table of people, that he wanted me to go down there and just check them out and see what I thought about them. Because he. When he was coming back to the hotel, he spoke, he spotted them. I don't know what about them concerned him, but he sat down with them and he said, well, I want you to see if one of them is the cab driver, the guy that came and told you that he was my cab driver. So I was like, okay, so I want to. But when I went down there, there was nobody there. And so I went back up there to the room and he's like, okay, well, we're going to go out for lunch. So we went out to Lincoln Avenue, Lincoln Drive, where, you know, all the restaurants and all the things are over there. And we were kind of just walking around and. And we decided to sit and get a bite to eat. And John, while we're sitting there, John is kind of just pointing out people to me, and he's like, okay, look at that guy. He's got a weapon in his. In his front pocket, or he's got a weapon, look at his ankle. And he's showing me what to look for on these people. And. And then he. There was someone that had walked by, and I remember he grabbed a butter knife because that was all that he had for a weapon, and kind of tucked it, you know, in his, you know, in his sleeve on his lap and was kind of like at ready, you know, So I don't. I don't know now what's happening, but I do know, okay, the taxi cab driver was super weird. You know, I do know the night while we were talking, you know, in front of the news cafe, he was just watching people intently. So I need to be on guard here. I don't know what's going to pop off, but I need to be ready for whatever it is.

[Interviewer]

And the only threat, the perceived threat is still Belize government for him.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, very much so.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

And so. So we're sitting there, we have our lunch, and while we're sitting there, there's. I'm not sure where the. Because the Lincoln Drive is like a long stretch, and then there's like, streets that run parallel. Right. And so. So we're kind of sitting in the middle, but I can see a road ahead of me, and there was this SUV that just kept circling around. And it was the same SUV because it was the same driver. And, you know, I made John aware of that, and so he decided that we were going to Go back to the hotel. And he decided that we should go and. And change hotels. So we ended up in Fort Lauderdale at the Four Seasons or something. Anyways, that's not really not that important. But we just moved locations, you know, just to distance from, you know, where we were and spent a couple days together. And then John said, you know, I have to go. I'm gonna go to Tennessee, but I'm gonna call you and I want you to come and meet me there. And so, you know, I thought this was, this was it, it's over, you know, whatever. This is probably the last time I'm here from him. But he indeed did call me and I flew out to 10 Tennessee and met him. He had purchased a pickup truck and so we.

[Interviewer]

What do you have out in Tennessee?

[Janice McAfee]

His head of security actually lived there. His head of security, John Poole, who had been his head of security for. For over 20 years at the time. And so that's, that's where he was going to meet with him. And he purchased a, a pickup truck, Dodge Ram and we drove from there to Portland. Why Portland? I'm not sure still. I think he had. There was someone that was doing like a graphic novel about John's story. Chad was his name and he, that's where he lived. So I guess that's where we needed to be. But in between that on the trip, John would. We would get a hotel and he would just disappear for hours. Like hours. Sometimes a day or so. And it was later that he told me that he was actually going out to these remote areas and digging up whatever caches he had of emergency money or supplies or whatever it was that he needed. So. So I didn't get to actually see him doing any of that, but he just would disappear for. For long periods of time.

[Interviewer]

Oh, and that's. That was all over Portland?

[Janice McAfee]

No, no, this was in between our driving from.

[Interviewer]

Oh, this was the whole road trip from Tennessee to Portland.

[Janice McAfee]

Portland Y.

[Interviewer]

He had spots that he buried cash across the United States.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did he allude at all to you like when he did this and why he did this?

[Janice McAfee]

No, but he did a lot of off roading. He, that was kind of his thing. He liked to do off roading when he was living in New Mexico. So he, before he left the States, you know, he did, this is what he did. And I'm assuming that would have been when the time was that he would have been burying these things, whatever it was. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So crazy.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So that was on the way to Portland. And then what happened when you guys got there.

[Janice McAfee]

So we get to Portland and we've got a hotel and I actually have to go back to Miami because I have a court date because I had been arrested, I've obviously been arrested numerous times as a working girl. Soliciting, loitering. This is the charges that they, they give you. I've never really was caught in the act. Maybe one time caught in the act, but, but everything else was because I was in an area known for prostitution. Then the assumption is you're a prostitute and so they charge you with soliciting and loitering.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

So this was one of those times. And my, my sentence was deferred and they put me into a program, you know, about safety awareness or something, some sort of program that they, you know, you have to attend and also you have to stay out of trouble for X amount of time, usually about six months. And so I had, did that and they were just going to go and close out the case. So I needed to go back to Miami. And when I, before I left, John said to me, you know, listen, I'm not going to be, I'm not going to allow you to be taking care of a grown man. Right. So this was his way of alluding to knowing that I had a pimp because we never really talked about the pimp. Right. Meanwhile, during this entire road trip, the pimp is calling, the pimp is texting and we're. Because he wants to know a blow by blow what's happening and where's the money and when are you going to give me money, send me, you know, all of the things that, how does that work? It was really stupid and it was really weird because it's like, first of all, I can't answer the phone. I'm sitting in the car next to the man.

[Interviewer]

Right, right.

[Janice McAfee]

So he's going to hear you, he's going to hear what I'm saying to you. You're not going to be smart enough to ask me questions. That's not going to make it a, make him aware that you're on the phone with me. Right. And so we would, we were arguing a lot, you know, A lot, a lot.

[Interviewer]

So pimp is under the assumption that you're on this road trip getting paid and he's going to get a cut of all of it.

[Janice McAfee]

Right, exactly. And so, so, so, so John said, if you're going to come back here, then this is, you know, this is sort of the ground rules, you know. Right, exactly. And so I was like, okay, I can do that anyways. Other things happened after that. But that was the plan, that was the intention.

[Interviewer]

And yeah, that's another thing. If prostitution becomes legal, they have to get rid of pimps.

[Janice McAfee]

You would think so.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I would imagine. Do you think it would be better without pimps?

[Janice McAfee]

My life would have been better with that. I don't think I would have been a prostitute, actually.

[Interviewer]

Right, yeah, that's true. That's a good point.

[Janice McAfee]

And, and there's. But I don't think.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you think the pimp is the one that pushed you. That's how you got pushed into it.

[Janice McAfee]

In the beginning, for sure.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Janice McAfee]

But I don't think that it would address the issue of, of, of the people that are really being exploited in this industry. Right. The people that are being trafficked. That's not gonna. Making prostitution legal is not going to address that issue. Right. It's not going to address, it's not going to help the children that are being trafficked, you know, into these sexual situations.

[Interviewer]

Right. So, so when you have people above that that can exploit people below it, that's when it becomes even like a way worse problem.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, yeah. And maybe it could help. I'm. I'm not sure. I don't know. I think people are, are. We are loving and kind and gracious and all the things, but we can be absolute monsters. And I don't know that there is any law that can be passed to exercise this monstrosity of the human nature, you know, where people can be exploited. They will be exploited. Someone somewhere will exploit them. Right. This is just our nature, you know, and, and, and we have to accept that. And then from there, combat the issue. Com. You know, you understand what I'm, what I'm trying to get at? I don't know if that made any sense, but.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, it makes sense. Humans are capable of some vile. Right, that's for sure.

[Janice McAfee]

And we have to, and we have to account for that. We have to accept that we can, that we are capable of that because then we can approach the problem with a solution that's going to actually solve an issue. Right. Any issue, I think, anyways.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of very deep corruption that's involved and that I'm sure contributes to a lot of the prostitute. I mean, people being trafficked out of, out of like, like orphan, orphan homes and things like this or even people crossing the border. People I know, they're like the cartels are, are like charging tons of money and even like smuggling young people and kids out of Mexico to Bring them here to be prostitutes and for this kind of stuff. It's. It's. It's sick. Yeah. Any kind of thing will. They will exploit human life to the end of the earth if it makes them money.

[Janice McAfee]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

People. And that. And that's another problem with people that are desperate too. Like, like cartels can. Can take advantage of people who are the most desperate.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And they're. And people that are willing to do anything to feed their. If you have, like, like I always say this. If. If one of the worst things that people can do besides like, human trafficking and stuff is like, there's poaching and stuff that goes on in Africa where they kill endangered species like elephants and stuff like this, and there's only so many of them. But the people who are. Are killing these elephants are just trying to feed their kids and they have no money. And if you have. If you have no other option. If I have no other option, if I can put myself in that person's shoes and. And it's my kid or my. My daughter that is gonna starve to death unless I kill this endangered elephant. I'm gonna kill that endangered elephant every day of the week to do that.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And that's. Those are the type of people that get taken and taken advantage of with things like drug trafficking and human trafficking, poaching, and they're also the ones that get in trouble. It's not the people that are way above them, manipulating. They always escape prosecution and the law.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

But anyways, that was a. That was a rant.

[Janice McAfee]

That's okay. It's okay. Yeah. So. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What were you talking about before this?

[Janice McAfee]

I made it. I went to Miami. Went back to Miami.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Janice McAfee]

Well, I've only. I only brought that.

[Interviewer]

John told you to cut off that guy.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. There's a little specific thing that I. That why I brought that up. So while I was there in Miami, the pimp, you know, we're talking and. And the. The pimp and the girl who I was with when I met John, you know, she's like, well, what is he like, what do you think is gonna happen? You think he's gonna marry you? And. And so, you know, I'm seeing all these stupid things, like, yeah, I think getting married and I want to get my name in the wheel and all this stupid stuff, you know, just stupid things, you know, that we say. And so, you know, the pimp. One day we're having a conversation about how much I thought that John was going to pay me. You Know, for. For what. I'm not sure what he was thinking of, you know, because he had already spent $3,000 to take care of the. My rent for the condo we were renting and then for the car note as well, and then just extra spending money, right? Which I had already sent to take care of those things. But. But it was actually not the p. Actually paid directly, you know, those things. And then he gave me spending money anyways. And so I'm not sure what the pimp was thinking John was going to pay me money for. Right. But his. He had all these sorts of ideas of wanting me to like, you know, get pictures of him, video of him, you know, like, because nobody knew during that time where John was or who he was with, but he was with me. So he's thinking, you know, we could sell this stuff to the press and make money that way. And just. Just trying to come up with. With just ways to, you know, extort money from John. And so he was like saying something about getting him to pay me $50,000. And I was like, he's not going to pay me $50,000. It's a stupid amount of money. For what? And he was like, well, at least 20,000. And I'm like, okay, but we just went on a road trip. Like, I'm. Again, I don't know what his mind was on. And so fast forward, I get back to Portland and John's head of security, we arrived together. So we're all in the elevator together. John, his head of security, and myself going up to the room, and his head of security all of a sudden just says out loud, oh, yeah, I brought that $50,000 that you asked me to bring. And it was just a. To you really weird. No, he's talking to John.

[Interviewer]

John.

[Janice McAfee]

So it was just really weird. I'm like, why would he say that out loud? But then my mind immediately goes to the only time I was talking about this or this was spoken of was when we were in Miami. So. So now I'm like, okay, so obviously he's listening. You know, he had a way of listening and hearing what was happening in Miami. I don't know if it was my phone or if it was the house, right? Or somebody's home or our phone, I should say. And so. But I assumed that. That he would have been. Anyways, I assumed that I would. Would have been being monitored because John just didn't seem like the type of person where. Where I wouldn't be, you know, and so. So that just gave me the heads up or. Or it just confirmed my suspicions that I definitely was being watched and listened to. And so he thought for sure I was going to take the money. The head of security did, and. And his other security thought I was as well. So they left me in the room. John left me in the room with the money. And he was like, okay, I'm gonna go. And I remember I went to smoke a cigarette outside of the hotel, and this guy comes walking down the road, and he had on a white shoe and a black shoe, but obviously I couldn't see that. So he's coming from the opposite corner because the hotel we were on was on the corner. And he's walking, he's kind of limping, and he's like. Looks like a bum, and he's limping down. And as he gets closer to me, he starts to straighten up, and he's now walking straight with no limp or anything, and he's got on a white shoe and a black shoe. And. And as he's passing by me, he gives me, like, this death stare because, again, everyone assumed I was going to take the money, but I didn't take the money. And that sufficiently spooked me anyways. I don't know why I told that story, but. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So they were, like, testing you.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

To see if you're in a problem, see where your loyalties were.

[Janice McAfee]

And John. And John, you know, would later say that he. He knew that I wouldn't, you know, that I wasn't going to take the money, but. But he had to, I guess, go along with whatever. I don't know. So, yeah, lots of little things like that happened in the course of our being together. Right. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Let's take a quick bathroom break.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

We'll be right back. So this is. This is from who again?

[Janice McAfee]

This is from someone who was trying to extort some money from John while he was living in. In Belize. These are the sort of things that people would send to him.

[Interviewer]

Him. Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

This was not an isolated incident, but.

[Interviewer]

Right. People are always trying to extort him.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Extort money from him.

[Interviewer]

And we were just talking before we started. Started back on from the break about this hitman.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. There was the hitman from the first documentary that was done about John called the Gringo.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

And in it, Edward McCoy, Eddie McCoy. He was allegedly paid by John by checking to. To kill his neighbor. And so this is what was reported in that documentary. And so John was, you know, in contact with Edward McCoy, and he would email me to, you know, as a way, kind of a Middleman to get, you know, whatever message he wanted to. To John because John wouldn't speak with him directly. And so he also sent over a Western Union showing that Nanette had paid him, I think it was $3,000 US to tell this story of him being paid by check by John to kill the Nanette Bernstein. And she was actually the producer, I believe, of the gringo documentary.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So this is the check, this is the.

[Janice McAfee]

The Western money that she had paid him to.

[Interviewer]

To give this story sender, Nanette Bernstein. That's two. Where does it say two?

[Janice McAfee]

Receiver. It says at the top under, just under Western Union receiver is Edward McCoy.

[Interviewer]

Okay. 25 Dean Street.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So she paid him $3,000. And he was interviewed in that documentary.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, he was.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so this could, this could. To be devil's advocate. This could just be payment for, like.

[Janice McAfee]

Appearance in the documentary, of course, obviously. But that's a large amount of money for just coming on and sharing a story, you know.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

And so, yes, this could just be, obviously, pain, Devil's advocate. Yes, it could be, but she. But this also goes to just the larger point of. Of the documentary as a whole. You know, that, that, you know, the people that were in the documentary had reached out to John and, you know, were saying that they were down there looking for people to tell, you know, these fantastical stories about. About John, but there was no one really to corroborate that. Like his. Like, I guess I should say, you know, reading through the comments of some of the stories, the, the reports that were made about him, you know, people would comment about. Well, that wasn't my experience with him. You know, he was always very kind. And, and, and so I think this was. It was just interesting to see the length that, that the Showtime, you know, people were willing to go to. To tell this. This story that was very. Just very biased. And since. But since you haven't watched the documentary, you won't understand what I'm talking about.

[Interviewer]

Did they ever ask to interview John?

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, she wanted John on there.

[Interviewer]

He didn't do it.

[Janice McAfee]

No, he didn't want to do it. Right. For. For this very reason, because he had been getting phone calls from. From all of the people that were being approached too. And I think they paid another gentleman, I think he said upward of $12,000. His name was Cassian. He was like John's property manager. So he was like, I guess, really close to John at that time. And so, yeah, this letter was just an interesting thing.

[Interviewer]

This is just a random person trying to extort money. John McGaffey, this is Swan.

[Janice McAfee]

Swan.

[Interviewer]

I am deep in. And I am in deep.

[Janice McAfee]

I should say the Swan. There it was the Swan brothers, who I guess were known for. To be very violent. Kind of known around the island.

[Interviewer]

Oh, really?

[Janice McAfee]

For their, you know, illegal activities and violent mannerisms, I guess. That's crazy. So he. So it was a crazy time. He was living in life.

[Interviewer]

He had to have been so paranoid.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. But I think he enjoyed the chaos. He was, you know, he. He came on this earth in chaos. He was born during World War II, so, yeah, you know, and his parents meeting was chaos. His mother was married already to someone. Oh, really was off in the war. And she got pregnant by his dad, who was an American soldier. And the story goes that they were having. Having like, a romantic evening in her house. And so below was a jewelry store. So then they lived above that. And there was a lot of candles that were lit, which then lit a curtain on fire, which then burned the entire home and business down. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. So. So, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

Pretty cool. But I also wanted to show. Maybe if we can shift, we'll show a picture. It's of me and John and one of the first pictures taken of us publicly. And you see the gentleman in the background there, just between our heads.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

This is.

[Interviewer]

He looks creepy.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. This is what we were kind of dealing with, you know.

[Interviewer]

Who is that guy?

[Janice McAfee]

From the onset, this was just someone that was following, following, keeping tabs on John.

[Interviewer]

He looks rough there. Yeah, John does.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, he does.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay, so now you can see why I made the assumption that he was broke and he was not. Yeah. Right.

[Interviewer]

How old is he there?

[Janice McAfee]

He's 66.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

66. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wow. I love those sunglasses, by the way.

[Janice McAfee]

Oh, thank you.

[Interviewer]

Those are pretty sweet.

[Janice McAfee]

Thank you. Yeah, I was looking rough, too.

[Interviewer]

No, you didn't look rough. You look great. You look fantastic.

[Janice McAfee]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so let's go back to the. The story. Where did we leave off with the story?

[Janice McAfee]

So I just told this.

[Interviewer]

You told you to break off the pimp, right?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, the pimp. And. And which I did for. For a little bit of time. And so I told the story as well about the money, the 50k, because just to give context. So I understood very much.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

I assumed from the beginning that I was being watched and listened to, but that was confirmation of that. And so moving forward, when we moved into our apartment in Portland, I was under the same assumption. And so, you know, we're there. John's in and out of town. He has flavors of the week, as I call them. Women that were coming and staying or women that he was going and seeing. Because I wasn't asking exclusivity from him. Right. We weren't monogamous, and I wasn't.

[Interviewer]

You were young.

[Janice McAfee]

What he did was what he did. And. And that was fine. I was fine with that. Right. Our arrangement was that he, you know, gave me a place to stay, a car to drive.

[Interviewer]

Were you allowed to have other boyfriends?

[Janice McAfee]

No.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's not fair. Yeah, see, if he gets. If he gets to play around, then you get to play around.

[Janice McAfee]

But I wasn't, you know, here's the thing. I wasn't interested or, like, I didn't have a need to be itch like that, you know what I'm saying? Or want to be? No. You know what I'm saying? No, not really. I mean, I came from, you know, being a prostitute.

[Interviewer]

So you kind of like, you think.

[Janice McAfee]

You just wanting to have somebody to have fun with was not, you know, that's what John was for. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

You wanted more of an emotional connection or, like.

[Janice McAfee]

I just. I wasn't sure what I wanted. Yeah, with John, I just want. I just knew that I wanted it to last as long as he was willing to allow it to last.

[Interviewer]

But didn't you, like, want? Did you. You had no desire for, like a. Like a life partner or like, even if it wasn't sexual, like, you didn't. You didn't have any desired for, like. Yeah. I don't know how else to put it by like. But by like a partner, Like a life partner or like a.

[Janice McAfee]

I just knew that I liked him. Yeah, I liked John a lot. I was smitten, I think.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

The perfect word.

[Interviewer]

So you, like, actually liked him, like.

[Janice McAfee]

Blushing about it now? Yeah, I really liked him. Wow. Like a girl likes a boy, you know, that really sort of just. Yeah, he was fascinating. And. And because I liked him, I was, you know, I was, I guess, all in.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay. Just to see where it would go, you know. And.

[Interviewer]

And you guys had known each other for how long at this point?

[Janice McAfee]

Oh, just a couple months.

[Interviewer]

Just a couple months. Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

February, right. Of 2013. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

And so give me a year.

[Interviewer]

You'll be sick of them.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, we did have some epic fights, so. But. But yeah, at the time, I just. I just wanted to be around him. I really liked him, by the way.

[Interviewer]

Sorry to interrupt, but.

[Janice McAfee]

No, go ahead.

[Interviewer]

Speaking of that, the part in the. The. The second documentary, Running with The Devil, where you were like, yeah, she held a knife to my throat. You're like, I didn't hold a knife to your throat. Don't confuse me with some other. Oh, God. I was laughing my ass off and, like, you, like, slammed the table. He was like.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, God, that was great. That was one of the best moments.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, he was. He was definitely a character. Oh, my goodness. That was. Yeah. I. I looked rough in that documentary. Can I just say that I've looked really, really bad?

[Interviewer]

You did.

[Janice McAfee]

I was drinking a lot. I was stressed.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

My brother had just died, and so all of these things. I'd left my kids again, you know, my family. I didn't know when I was gonna see them again, so it was just. It was a really, really, really rough time. Right.

[Interviewer]

And that's another thing. You had. You had kid or a kid or multiple kids? Three. Three children that were living with your parents in California during this time.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. And then while I was working. While I was working, girl, I asked them. I asked my dad to take them from me so that they could, you know, be raised normal and they could be safe from the pimp. Because that was the concern that he would begin, you know, abusing them. Not sexually, necessarily, but I didn't know what he was capable of, but physical abuse for sure, because that's what. He was beating me. So. No. And I couldn't protect them from that. You know, he. They. They witnessed a really bad fight. He almost killed me. And they were there. So it was after that, my children were.

[Interviewer]

Who almost killed.

[Janice McAfee]

Oh, I'm sorry. My pimp. He almost.

[Interviewer]

In front of your kids?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, well, not in front of them, but they were in the house, but they could hear what was happening. They. It was really loud. He was. You know, they were crying. And, you know, my son. I remember my son came in the room. My daughter, she's like, mommy. And, you know, I had to just take him and put him back in the room and just, you know, just stay here. You know, just stay here. And. Yeah, so I. I'm. I asked my dad to come and get my kids because I just couldn't keep them safe. And. And for whatever reason, I just believe that that situation was my. My punishment. You know, I grew up very religious, so I just felt like this was my. My punishment for being rebellious, you know, because I was. And. And just the decisions that I made that led me into the situation with the pimp, you know, so. But I wasn't willing to have my children also be Punished, you know, this was, this was my, my punishment, you know, And I didn't want them to suffer in it as well.

[Interviewer]

So I think you did the right thing.

[Janice McAfee]

I think so. I, I, well, the right thing would have been to get out of it myself.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Janice McAfee]

But for whatever reason, I just. Because it wasn't a love thing. I've had people ask me that, you know, like, he had to. Maybe it was just love, because I've heard women say that about their abusers, you know. Well, I just loved him and I thought he would change. I didn't love him. We were like, when I met him, he was just supposed to be a one night stand. I had a daughter already and, you know, I was trying to do the right thing, get my life together, whatever. And then this guy, kind of handsome and he thinks I'm cute. He knows I got a kid. And you know, back then, and I think still now when you have a kid, you're kind of like tainted goods, you know, like nobody's ever gonna want you anymore because you've got it to this kid, you know? And so he thought it was cute. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna go, you know, dust the coochie off a little bit, you know, I have a good time. And that's what it was supposed to be, just a one night stand. But then the condom broke, I got pregnant and, and again, religious family. I didn't want another baby daddy. So I was like, okay, let me see if I can make this situation into a relationship. And then I could just get out of my dad's house and whatever. But he had other, other plans in mind. I didn't know he was an aspiring pimp and he was looking for someone like me at the time when he found me.

[Interviewer]

So the pimp is also the father of your kids?

[Janice McAfee]

One of my children.

[Interviewer]

One of your children, yeah, one of my children.

[Janice McAfee]

So I had it. One from a previous relationship and then one with a pimp, and then one is from a rape. From a customer raped me and.

[Interviewer]

Oh, God, yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. I'm just all over the place. I know. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Traumatic life you've had.

[Janice McAfee]

All of my own making. All of my own making. Isn't that crazy?

[Interviewer]

It is crazy.

[Janice McAfee]

The things that we, we, we think about. The things that I thought I deserved, which kept me there.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Longer than I should have been. I wouldn't have had to go through all of the trauma that I went through. But maybe I wouldn't have met John either.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

So, okay. So, yeah, let's get Back to the story, which. Where was I? Anyways, okay, so we're in Portland. We're living in Portland. We're having this sort of life. And I'm, you know, doing my best to adjust to being in the house all the time. You know, I'm going out and shopping. John's allowing me to do that. Oh, by the way, before I get too deep in that, when I came back from, from Miami, John called the pimp, or the pimp called me. And he's like, you know, and I'm like, you can't call me anymore. I don't want to be with you anymore. Like, it's over, it's done, whatever. And so, you know, he's kind of like yelling and we're going back and forth. And then John's like, give me the phone. And so I gave John the phone and he's like, listen, you know, she's. She doesn't want to be with you anymore. Like, this is, you know, it's. It. This son, whatever. And so the next thing I hear John say is that, okay, well, if you come here, you will leave here in a body bag. And then John's like, well, no, it's not a threat. I'm just telling you what's going to happen if you decide to come here. And so I could hear the pimp yelling and all of the things. So the, the phone call ends and that's done, right? So we're done. And so again, fast forward, living life. John's in and out of town. He's, you know, got his flavors of the week. I'm getting bored. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna get a job. Like, I, I need something to do, right? And. And I'm not working anymore. Like, I'm not a prostitute anymore. So that's not a, you know, a thing. So I'm like, okay, well, I'll just get a job at Forever 21 or something. Like, you know, just to, you know, and I could get clothes, whatever. He was like, no wife of mine is going to be working. And like, you can't, you can't do that. You're with John McAfee. That's not allowed. And so I'm like, okay. So then I asked for a dog, and he's like, okay, we'll go to the shelter. We'll go pick out a dog. But this had been like months now have passed. And so then I went and looked online and I was like, I want a little cute little. Yeah. So I paid. So I sent the money to do it. And he's like. And when he found out about it, he's a little pissed. And he's like, what is this? I was like, I told you I wanted a dog. Like, I want. I want something, someone here, companion, you know, whatever. And so he's like, okay, we'll get your money back and I will take you to the shelter and we'll go get a dog. So we actually did that, and that's how we got Tequila, who was our red nose pit bull. I probably should have shared pictures of. Of our dogs. But anyways, Tequila was the first dog that we got. And I remember we went to the shelter and, you know, we went and we were kind of interacting with her, and then he walked away. So then I was getting ready to walk away and she came and she's like crying at the. At the door of the cage. And I was like, oh. So he's like, okay, so she picked us, so we're gonna take her home. But I was definitely afraid of big dogs, pit bulls in particular. So when we had to bring her home, it was me by myself. And so I was so nervous. And she was sitting in the front passenger seat, and you know, Don, he had the pickup truck. So she's got her front paws on the middle console, and she's like right here in my face and she's just staring at me and like. And there's traffic, I remember there's like bumper to bumper traffic. So I can't get her out of the car or anything. I don't know what she's about to do. So like, hi, remember, you're my friend. And we're just going home now to, you know, and everything's gonna be cool. And she kind of was like looking like, side eyeing, kind of watching where I was driving, but I had no idea what she's gonna do. I was so scared of her. And so then I got her home and when she finally went to sleep, I just was like whispering in her ear, like, I love you and you're my friend. And I made up the stupid song, sung it to her just to kind of work my nerves through. And I think that's how we became friends. So anyways, the dog's there and. And so in this boredom, you know, I'm. You know, John left. You know, he would have some cash in his dresser drawer on his side of the bed. So I remember taking the money out and taking a picture of it. It's like, oh, like $10,000, you know, just to kind of show that I'm still living a good life. Right. Just to kind of show off for other hoes that might have known, you know, my story. And for the pimp as well. Yeah, right. So that didn't go over very well with John either. And then my. My daughter had a birthday party, and I wanted to show that off as well. So I did. You know, I was kind of posting about that because I wanted. Because the. The idea was that John was just using me and I was getting played, you know, like this. I was getting played by a trick. And, you know, I'm. I'm, you know, just went dummy over this trick and. And I'm gonna get played and end up with egg on my face. And so I just wanted to show that that was not the case. You know, I put a picture of my car up there and, you know, money, and, you know, I'm still living high on the hog, if you will. Yeah, right. And so. So then John had this one girl, this one woman who had come over to our house, and so she didn't want me in the apartment. And they were kind of fighting, I guess, about me or whatever. And so John decides that he's going to kick me out. So he kicks me out. But this is also has to do with, I think, because I was like, showing signs of maybe gonna go back into that lifestyle because I'm posting these pictures, I'm trying to find out what's going on. You know, I'm talking to the hoes that I used to work with and all of these things. So maybe for John, he's like, okay, let me just cut this off before it becomes a bigger issue. And so he kicked me out with the dog. And I ended up calling one of my. One of my clients who was like a regular, to send me some money so I could get a hotel. And. And I was able to have a hotel for a couple nights. Then I got the brilliant idea that I would reach out to the pimp and have him send me some money. And then I would just fly back to California to my family. And so instead of the pimp sending me money, he sends me a gentleman named Francois, who. He comes and he pays me. We do, you know, conduct business. He pays me. And afterwards he says, so I know that, you know, John McAfee. You're with John McAfee, and, you know, the pimp has. You know, I'm here because, you know that we're going to have a meeting, and I just want to talk and, you know, about some things that you know, and he was like, well, I don't want to get into it, but we'll just. We'll talk about it, you know, at the meeting with the pimp or whatever. And I'm like, again, you know, pretending I don't know. John McAfee is. I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, okay, well, just know that your pimp is. You know, he's arranged us that he's arranged this. So, you know, we're going to have a meeting, whatever. And so fast forward to the meeting. There was my pimp there. There was a pimp from Portland and then another pimp from California, okay? And so they're physically in the room, and then Francois is on the phone, and he begins to talk about how he's a. A representative for the cartel, and they are wanting me to be sort of their inside person of giving them information about John.

[Interviewer]

What cartel?

[Janice McAfee]

The Caloa cartel.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Mexican guy, Francois.

[Janice McAfee]

He's not Spanish. No, he Argentinian. Okay, Argentinian. Okay. And Canadian. So, you know, in this meeting. Okay, so as it works in the pimp world, right, when a hoe is. When a hoe is around other pimps, you're to be seen and not heard, right? And so I immediately was like, well, I'm not doing any of that crap. Like, I'm. But I'm speaking out loud. Like, I'm not doing none of this. Like, I don't know what y' all talking about. I'm not gonna be. Be telling y' all anything about that. Like, this man ain't who you think he is, you know, so I'm not going to give you any information. And so, you know, eventually my pimp made me go in the bathroom because I wouldn't shut up about it. And so when I came out of the bathroom, it was the California pimp that. That threatened me directly. And he was like, if this snitches, I'm killing her and her family.

[Interviewer]

It's like a pimp network. I love Matt Cox during your podcast. Like, is there like a. A network of a global pimp network?

[Janice McAfee]

Oh, my goodness. But. But this gentleman is very pretty famous. Well, he was at the time.

[Interviewer]

He a famous pimp.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, His. His hoe was the hoe that got caught up with Hugh Grant when he was arrested way back in the. What was it, 80s or 90s or something? When before Hugh Grant was the guy. Right? Yeah. So he had gotten caught up with a. With a prostitute in the car, and she was a prostitute, so that Was the. Her. Her pimp. So. And this was, I guess, the mentor of my pimp. Yes. There she is there.

[Interviewer]

That's her.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, that's her.

[Interviewer]

It looks a little bit like Michael Jackson.

[Janice McAfee]

No.

[Interviewer]

Is it just me?

[Janice McAfee]

I think so, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

So, yeah, so, yeah, that happened. Anyway, so this gentleman, you know, and so that this was my concern.

[Interviewer]

Minus the Adam's apple.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, minus. And so, so this was a big concern for me. Not, not, not necessarily the cartel, but the pimps. Because my parents had lived in the same home for over 30 years. They had the same routine. My children went to the schools that I went to. Like, there was nothing different about them, their routine. So they were easily findable. Yeah, easily could have paid anybody to just go shoot up their house and they could have all been dead, you know, so, so fast forward, I, I don't know how it happens, but John, I think John reached out to me because again, assuming and knowing that I'm being watched and listened to, he probably would have known of this meeting.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Janice McAfee]

And, and so he reaches back out to me and he comes to the hotel and I remember he's like checking under the bed, checking right out the closet. Not right after, maybe a day later.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

And, and so I was like, you know, nobody's here. And he was like, okay. I'm just, okay, so now. But he's on guard. There's this on, you know, he's, he's really on guard. And so I'm like, okay, crap. But, but I'm. What am I going to say to him? You know, what am I going to say to him that he's going to believe, you know, what, what could I possibly say? So I said nothing. And we, you know, said our apologies about whatever and we went back to our apartment, you know, as though nothing happened. And, but this Francois gentleman was someone that John was working with closely at the time because they were trying to do a documentary as well and then also trying to work on a film. They were working on a script for, for a film that they were wanting to do as well, while also working with Chad doing the graphic novel about story. So this was all happening, you know, and so I remember just Francois being around it just made me really like, I just didn't know what to, what to do. Right. I couldn't tell John what was happening because I felt like if I, if I said something, then it could maybe get back to him. Right? Because he came into our, our apartment one day and he set up our cable or something. He set up and I. And I made the assumption that he was putting, like, something to spy on us in the. In the house. And, you know, John's letting this happen. So John, understand this, that John knew everything that was happening. There's no way that he didn't know, but he was allowing it to happen to play out. Why? I don't know, maybe to. To understand maybe the Francois connection and who he was connected to and.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Janice McAfee]

And finding out all the tentacles there, but then also just trying to see what I was going to do, where I was going to land, because obviously could have just cut it off, we could have just ended our situation, but then there would have just been another girl moved in. Right. And so I think he was willing to just suffer with the devil that he knew. Right. As opposed to, you know, and so. So over time, the request shifted from giving information about, you know, where he is, who he's with, who he's traveling with, what sort of guns we have in the house, to wanting me to. I was given a substance at one point in time and told to put it in his food. They were asking me to park his car, his truck in a certain area or like, on the street so that it can be accessed because we had a parking garage. And so I would park in there. And so I would tell John, you know, listen, you know, when. When I'm not here, because I often travel back to see my kids in California. It's for summer break, for Christmas break, you know, just spending time with them as much as I could. So when I would go, I would tell them, don't drive by yourself. Have somebody else drive. Don't park the car on the street. Park it in the. In the, you know, parking garage just to. Not. Not to. So I never told him why. I just told him, hey, protect yourself from. From these things, you know. And I remember I was supposed to, because again, I said that I was. I had. Was given a substance, but I didn't throw it away, which I probably should have immediately. I'm not sure why I didn't. But I remember stuffing it, like, in my dresser drawer and just hiding it, because what happened the day it was given to me, I just went out. I was supposed to be going to 7:11, and the pimp was out, you know, calling me and wanting me to come meet him. So I did that and I went back straight to the, you know, our apartment. So I didn't want to stop somewhere and then be seen, you know. Anyways, this was just my thinking process. And so I remember we were going to eat dinner together. And I was waiting for John because we were going to cook together. That's what we always did. But he was busy on the phone, and so I was hungry, so I decided to go ahead and cook anyways. And when he came out of the bat out of the bedroom after his phone call, he kind of just stood there in the doorway and was like, oh, you cooked? And I was like, yeah, I did. And he's like, okay. And so he's like, he comes to the. To the stove and he's watching me while I'm, you know, kind of preparing our place. And I was like, would you want me to make your plate or you want to make your own? Like, what do you. And he was like, no, you go ahead and make it. So it's like, okay. So, you know, I showed him, you know, I'm stirring it up just to let him see. I'm not digging from a specific spot. You know, it's just. And it was some broccoli, chicken and noodles I made or something. And I remember he took some of the noodles and he started throwing it to our dog, Tequila. And he later told me he did that because he knew if there was something in there, that I would have said something because I love the dog and. And I wouldn't let, you know, want the dog to be hurt. So. So yeah, so this is going on and then fast forward to about July ish of 2013. The Belizean soccer team comes to play soccer in Portland, Oregon, as a part of some tournament that was happening, right? And so John finds, you know, finds out this information, I guess, somehow gets the. The flight log of who all was on the flight and on when they left the team. When the team left, not everyone that arrived left with them. So. So now in our neighborhood. So we were. We were living on 20th, 20th and Hawthorne. In. On. At the Hawthorne on 20th, I think, is the name of the apartment building. Anyways, we're. So this is where we were, but in this neighborhood, I was the blackest person that lived there. Now, there were people that would come to the shops and things, but no one that looked like me. So when we started seeing people that looked like me kind of just milling around, you know, loitering, if you will, in. In our area. Like, there was a. Like a thrift shop across the street from our apartment building. And so people would be like, just loitering around there, not really doing anything. There was a pizza shop across the street from us, and people would just be sitting there for hours and Hours and hours. So obviously there was something happening. And. And I assumed that whatever was happening was related to whatever my pimp was involved in. Right. And so fast forward then to September, like September 12th. Ish, I believe it was. There was a report, a news. A news story that came out online that John had overdosed in a Vegas hotel and he was dead. And so he was getting phone calls from people that knew him, obviously, just to see if he was okay. And he was like, yeah, no, I'm fine. I think it was like a. An Irish publication or maybe the. The woman was Irish that wrote the story. Anyways, weird. But it's. It is still online, but there were a few of those things, so maybe it might be difficult to find it. Anyways, back to the story. So that happened. And then we. Prior. Just prior to this, after the Belizean soccer team came to play, we actually had live in security. John hired this biker, who and his girlfriend to kind of be like our live insecurity and our security just, you know, take us around town and be with us. And so they were living with us. So the gentleman was arrested not long after that story had come out. Right. And so now we're without security. And so fast forward maybe a couple days. I can't think of the exact date, but it was definitely before John's birthday. But around his birthday, because all of these things seem to happen around his birthday. I think it was like the. Like a calling card of these people or whoever, because it. There was always something happening around his birthday, which is why he hated his birthday. He hated his birthday very much. And so anyways, one night after. After our security is arrested one night, John and I were binge watching Family Guy, and we lived on the fourth floor of our apartment, and it sat like a L. And so we could see all the main roads, right? We could see all of that. And I saw a truck pull up to the lamp post, which is in between the. The pizza shop that I told you about across the road from us. And then there was an old movie theater there. So there's this lamp post there. And this gentleman pulls up in a white pickup truck. And he gets out and he's wearing like a construction worker vest. And he flashes his flashlight down our street four times. And so I pointed out to John, I was like, hey, this guy just his, you know, flash his flashlight. And so the person did it again. And so now John's on high alert. He's like, okay, turn off all the lights, turn off the tv. And he's up Watching. He's got his binoculars. He's looking, he's listening. He's going from, you know, the living room to the. The second bedroom that we have kind of watching and listening. And he's, you know, he swore that he heard something. He was like, don't. Do you hear a motorcycle idling? I was like, no, I don't hear. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, you know, I'm obviously concerned, but I'm not. I'm not putting it together like he is again, because I'm assuming whatever's going on had to do with the pimp. But the pimp has not told me of anything happening. So obviously nothing can be happening in my mind. So I'm thinking. And so I eventually go and lay down in our bedroom and. And I guess I fell asleep, obviously, because he comes at about 2 in the morning. He comes running in and wakes me up. And he says, listen, they're here. We gotta go get dressed. And I was like, you know, waking up, like, what? Who's here? What are you talking about? And he said, you know, we gotta get dressed, we gotta move. And he was like, listen, if you want to stay here, that's fine, but I have to go. So I'm leaving. And so I threw on something really quickly and we run down to the opposite end of our hallway. We run down the stairs into the parking lot. Parking garage. And in the parking garage, the lights are motion detected. And so while we're running around, the lights are on and John's trying to find somewhere for us to hide. We lived on top of a dental office, and there's also a coffee shop that was there as well. So he's trying to get into those doors, you know, that are linked to the. To those businesses. Yeah, there's also, like, storage areas in there as well. And so he's trying to find an open door for us to hide it in. And everything was locked. So he goes into the trash room and he's like, okay, we'll get in here. We. Let's hide in here in the trash bin. I'm like, I'm not getting in there. That's nasty. So he turns the light off and he's like, okay. And in the parking garage, the cars are set up on, like, an elevator system. So there was an underground level, main level, and then a lifted a higher level. So he said, okay, can you climb up here? And we'll hide under this. This vehicle. So we climb up there, we go under this car, and we're sitting there for, like, you know, a few minutes, long enough for the lights to go off because they're motion detected. And maybe five minutes after we're sitting there, the lights come back on. You hear the. The click of the. The door unlock because you put the key fob, and it makes a very loud clicking sound. And. And then the lights come on, and they stayed on all night. All night. But you don't hear anybody. You don't see anybody. You don't hear anybody walking. You don't hear anyone talking, but you can feel. Feel the movement. I don't know if that makes sense. You could just feel that there was movement in the room, right? And obviously there was, because the lights were on. And so there was a lot of chaos happening in the lobby. We could hear them. We could hear muffled people talking very loudly, though. You could hear people running up the. The stairs a little bit. You know, it was just a lot of commotion. Whatever was happening, it was a lot of commotion. And outside, though, you could also hear there was a garbage truck idling that was out front and in front of our building. I mean, somewhere in front of the building, because I could hear it. And so what happened? After maybe like two hours or so, the. The garbage bin was rolled out and taken to the garbage truck. And then you could hear the garbage truck doing its thing of lifting the bin up and then compressing the garbage. And then the bin was rolled back in. And then maybe like a half hour or so after that, you hear somebody very loudly in the lobby say. And. And then, you know, things start to happen. You know, the. The garbage truck drives off. There was some. There was our. One of our neighbors who John was suspicious of, that had moved in across the hall from us. They had moved in not. Not long after we had gotten new management. I. I think I forgot to add that in there. So we. We all of a sudden had gotten new management of our building about August of 2012, the same. So. So after the Belizean soccer team came to play, but before this attempt, there was a management change.

[Interviewer]

Did the building sell or something?

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, the building. I'm assuming it sold very quickly because it was. We had Virginia one day, and then the very next day, we had this new manager, right. Who we never really saw. He was never really around much, which was very strange. I don't know if that's how things usually happen with that, but it was strange to me. So, okay, back to that night. So we're sitting there. Eventually the lights go off, right? So the people have Left now. And about 7 in the morning, the manager comes in and he goes directly into the room where the surveillance cameras would have been, the screens for the surveillance cameras. He stays in there for maybe a minute or two.

[Interviewer]

You guys are still under the car?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, we're still in the car. And then he goes back into wherever he goes, into the lobby, I'm assuming. And so maybe about 9am was when we finally got from under the car. John just wanted enough time to pass just to make sure it was safe to come out. So we go up the stairs, we get back into our apartment. I'm freaking out. He's like, just grab what you can and, and we'll, you know, we'll, we'll pack up our stuff. And he called the girlfriend of our security living that was living with us and he asked her to come travel with us as we're leaving. So she came and she met us, I'm assuming because there's just safety in numbers. It wasn't really for her to protect us or anything. But. So we come down, as we're leaving, we, you know, at the elevator, we, one of our neighbors comes out, an older lady who lives next to the elevator. And you know, John's chit chatting with her. How you doing this morning? Whatever. And then he was like, well, did you hear anything strange happening last night? She was like, yeah, I was just gonna go down and ask about that because I heard so much commotion last night. And she was like, I was wondering what was going on. There was like people running up and down the hallways, you know, talking loudly, all of these things and so same floor as you?

[Interviewer]

She looked.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, same floor, fourth floor. And so, so we go down, we're in the lobby, our, the manager doesn't see us because he's, you know, speaking to the lady. And then we come from behind him and he sees us and his face like goes like white. Like all the blood is drained from his face. Almost like, you know, what are you guys still doing here? And so I just thought he would say, you know, because John asked him, you know what, was there anything strange that was happening last night? And I assumed he was going to say, yeah, you guys were running around like crazy people in our parking garage. But you know, he didn't even say.

[Interviewer]

That, you know, but security cameras would have seen you, right?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Yes, for sure, for sure. And so it was just really strange. And, and I should also add really quickly after we had left from there, John had sent him an email because he basically accusing him of being a Part of whatever was happening and that he was going to the FBI and he has all this evidence. And he said yeah. And, and just so you know, I had cameras installed into the elevator. So. So we've got everything. Right. And so we had our security who is now out of jail, the same gentleman, the couple. And they were packing up our stuff for us to ship it to us. We were now in Colorado, Colorado Springs, and they were going to ship it to us, bring our. My car and all the things. And so he said one of the days while they were there packaged of our stuff, the. In the elevator, it had been stripped down, the panels had been stripped out of the elevator. We're looking for these cameras or whatever. So.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

So yeah, so this was very eye openening for me that whatever the pimp was into this had nothing to do with him. And this was way higher than. There was heavy money involved and whatever had just happened and, and, and so, you know, I was sufficiently spooked.

[Interviewer]

Do you think the hotel was purchased specifically for this reason, the apartment complex?

[Janice McAfee]

I do.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

I do. John believed that as well. He did a lot of digging. There was a. A stories. News article story series that was being written by John Casaretto who was kind of chronicling chronicles. Chronicling. Am I saying that right? Whatever the John's findings. Because obviously you follow the money, you find out what's going on. Right. So he had, he had named some names and. And found out that it was definitely the Sinaloa Cartel that was behind the purchase. The. Not the purchase, but that was behind the activity of what was happening. Us being followed and the attempt on him being collected. They also had police officers there was. I didn't see the motorcycle police, but John said that when they. What pulled up was a black sedan, two cops on motorcycles. On police motorcycles and then the garbage truck. So again I didn't see any of that. I just heard the garbage truck idling in front of our building. So. So yeah, it was, it was pretty spooky. And we, we left from there. We went to Utah. I'm not sure why. We stayed there there for a little bit and then eventually made our way to. To Colorado because John had friends there. And so I'm guessing also because he had once lived there. So it's familiar, familiar territory. Right. And we ended up purchasing our first house there which was a double wide trailer which was so freaking awesome. I love that house. It was so cool. It's the coolest house. It had a fireplace and. And John taught me how to make A fire. And so it was just, it was just really cozy. And I had rooms for. It was a three bedroom, so there was rooms for my children, you know, I had, for my girls and for myself. And I decorated it. Yeah, you let me get furniture and decorate, you know, for an eventuality of maybe them coming. Like, I thought we were really like setting up house and everything, but we eventually had to leave there as well, so. So in the meantime, the pimp is no longer a part of my situation. Right. Because I. Like I said, I'm scared. Right. So I'm not dealing with him anymore. We're not talking. It's been months and months since I last spoke to him. I'm happy. Little homemaker, you know, in our house, John still got his flavors of the week and he's going here and there, whatever. We get married eventually in October. This is all in the same year. October of 2013 was when we got married the first time. And John's doing interviews with Fox News, cbs, whoever is with the mainstream media. He's doing interviews at this time. Not podcasts, but interviews with the mainstream media just on various subjects, whatever hot topics are happening. Right. I know. I remember he did an interview about Edward Snowden when he was, when he was stuck at the airport or something in Russia. And so this is what our life was at the time. And John did a particular interview with Fox News. And when he was doing these interviews, he would always request that they not share where he was, don't share the location. He'd always make sure to ask that. And everyone honored that up until this, this, this last interview that we did while we were still in, in Colorado.

[Interviewer]

These are all over like Skype or something.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay, well, actually we were going into the focus of the family building in Colorado Springs and they had a studio set up so we would go there and, and, and do remote, the remotely, the interviews. And so this newscaster, you know, as soon as he got on, he's like, and we're here with John McAfee in Colorado Springs things. So when that happened, you know, John's pissed, You know, just not pissed pissed, but just pissed whatever. Not pissed enough to do anything. It's not a situation like that, but he's upset about it. And not long after that, things started happening in our neighborhood. And so he purchased a trailer that we kept in a trailer park, you know, I guess for this eventuality because he was doing a lot of things that didn't make sense to me. But, but he wanted to have somewhere where we could have you know, to go and hide it. Hide out at. So the strange thing, the. The biggest strange thing, I guess I could point out that happened was that when, you know, when you get on your WI fi in your neighborhood, you know, it brings up all of the WI fi that's in your area. And so a new WI fi had popped up. It said FBI something. FBI, Right. And so I don't know if that was actually the FBI or whatever, but it was just. Just a very clear, you know, change. And then also, John decided that we would go and speak to the FBI, right? So I'm freaking out because I'm thinking, like, they're going to arrest me, you know, because I've, you know, I've done all these things. I'm thinking John's going in there to snitch on me, and now I'm going to go to prison. You know, I didn't know what was going to happen, you know, so we go in there and he's telling this agent about, you know, his life and. And, you know, why he thinks people are after him and what's happened and all the things. And then they asked me to leave the, you know, the office. So I leave the office and I'm like. I'm sweating, like, oh, my God, I'm going to prison. And I'm assuming it's because he's telling, right, this agent about me, right? He wasn't going to do it in front of me. And so, but we. We leave the office, right? And they come out and everything. Things like, okay, Mr. McAfee, you know, if anything happens, you know, we're here, whatever, you know, but they didn't take it seriously, I don't think. Or maybe they did, and maybe, you know, I was then on being watched and, you know, monitored by the FBI. I don't know. But from. From the outside appearance, it didn't look like they were taking it seriously. So. So we're living our life. We're. We're kind of moving around a little bit. But I remember there was a time I was. I was there, John was out of town, and I just happened to go to the store. And when I came out of the store, my pimp was standing at my car. And so I'm super freaked out because how does he know where I am? Because I haven't spoken to him. The only people that know where I am that could maybe relate to him or he could find out that through is my family because I was sending, like, MoneyGram, Western Union for my kids, for school supplies. Whatever they needed. Yeah. So I still. I. And still to this day, I don't understand how he found me, you know, how he knew that I was at the store. Right. And how he's at my car. And so I remember because John had said, I'm not to give him any money. What I did was I took a necklace he had given in me and I took it to the pawn shop. And to give him money, I said, you have to leave. You can't be here. You have to leave, like, now. You know, I don't know if I made him aware of the FBI situation or not, but it just. I just needed him to get away from me because I didn't want John thinking that I was, you know, part of anything that was now happening. Right. Because I'm still sufficiently very spooked. I don't know what's happening. You know, even though we're living, like, seemingly normal life, there's still this threat over us. And so eventually we move and we're traveling. I'm sorry, I'm trying to get to now another relevant part of. Of the story, because there was just a lot that was. That was happening in our normal, regular life. There was a. Okay, I should mention this as well. There was a. A talk that John had done at cs, CSS or something in San Jose, and it was in the same year, 2013. He gave a keynote speech during there, and a woman from Belize had come. And, you know, because afterwards he's kind of meeting and greeting, shaking hands and things, and this woman comes and she says she's from Belize, and she hands him. Him an envelope, a manila envelope, and there were some pictures in there of his properties or something. And so there was just these strange things that were always happening. People trying to give him drinks or, you know, women trying to get him to come to his hotel, their hotel room, you know, giving key cards and all the things. So there was always a sense of danger, potential danger around us. And so I want to get to. We were in Denver. I'm not sure why. Why we were in Denver, but I think because I was eventually about to fly out to California to see my kids. But I don't know why we were staying at the hotel. I think just because of everything that was happening. Since our location was outed, I think John just felt safer, you know, getting some distance. And so we were there. There's like a. Like a kind of concentrated area of hotels. So we were at one of the hotels, and I remember there was like, this road that went behind the hotels. And there was this pickup truck because it was walking our dog, Tequila. And this pickup truck was, like, stopping. Going to this hotel, and then he would stop and sit for a little bit, and then he would move and stop and sit a little bit and move and stop until I told John about it. And he said he's trying to triangulate, you know, could be possibly looking for us, was the assumption, obviously. And at this point, we weren't sure what was going on or how people were locating us, but it turned out to be the pickup truck. There was the low jack on the truck that we didn't realize. You know, if someone steals your truck or. Yeah, yeah, if it's ever stolen, you know, it could be found. So. So, you know, I tell John about that, and then, you know, I catch my flight to go to California, and he, you know, he calls me, like, later that evening, and he's like, listen, I'm. I'm hiding out in the parking garage because, you know, something's going on, but I'll let you know, you know, when I'm okay. And so eventually he made his way to California, to me, and he was like, listen, we gotta go, because I've got people following me. And, you know, it's not safe for you to be here with your kids. So we left and we made our way to Arizona, where the. The girlfriend of our security that was living with us in Portland, she came and met with us as well as John Poole, who was John's head of security for over 20 years. And so they met up with us. They had a rental car. And so we got in the rental car, John, myself and the girlfriend and his head of security took the pickup truck. And he, you know, figured out obviously it was the LoJack, so he disabled it. Whatever he needed to do to do that. And we went on about her way. But we were. We were still being followed, you know, in. In that area, in that general area of where, you know, we thought we had lost people. And so, you know, John and the girlfriend, they're like. They're chill. They're of kind. They're like, you know, everything's fine. Nobody's following in us anymore. And I'm like, no, you guys are wrong. Like, we're still being followed, you know, and. And we've not lost because we're kind of, like, still in the same area in the general area of where people were, like, kind of following us on the highway. And when I say following, I mean, like, you know, cars would get behind us. And, you Know, John would slow down, you know, and slow down to like ridiculously slow speed on the highway, like 30 miles an hour, and this car is still slowed down.

[Interviewer]

So they weren't, they weren't being discreet. They were being obvious.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, they were being very obvious, but they were just spotters. There was no, there was no danger, immediate danger. Right. They were just the spotters only.

[Interviewer]

Do you think that they were trying to intimidate John? Like, because they. Obviously it was clear, right. They weren't doing a very good job of being discreet, so.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Do you think maybe they were just trying to intimidate him and scare him? Let him know, like, you're being watched?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, possibly. And also maybe to just keep an eye until the danger could get there? Yeah, right. Until the, the muscle or the heavies could get there and, and do what they needed to do. Right, right. And so, so, you know, like I said, I told John, you know, people were still being followed at the time. The girlfriend was driving. I said, okay, listen, I'll calm down if you get in the driver's seat. John, I need you to drive. Because I knew he, he, you know, could handle himself behind the wheel. I said, I need you to drive and I'll be cool, you know. And so we're driving and we're getting ready to. We were actually almost out of gas because the gas light was on. I told John, I said, we should probably get some gas. I said, because we're not, you know, we're still being followed, so let's stop and get gas. He's like, no, we'll be fine. I was like, okay. I said, if this white pickup truck that you see right here at the stoplight, if it turns when we turn, then we're still being followed, okay? And so sure enough, that pickup truck turned with us. And so John still, he wants to make sure. So he does this thing. He slows way down, they slow way down. He speeds up, they speed up. So they're matching speed with us. Eventually we get up to like over 100 miles an hour. We're in a Ford Focus, the little hatchback thing, and, and we're like sort of hydroplaning on the road because it was, it was really crazy how fast we were going. Eventually they slowed down and. But we kept going at the same speed until we got into a town because it was like a two lane highway and you're now in between towns. Right. And so eventually we slowed down once we got into town, looked for a gas station, found one, and. And then we proceeded to leave town, but John was like, you know, he was going slow, and I was like, hurry up. We need to get out of here. He's like, no, I got this now, you know, and he's very slowly drove out of town just to not draw attention, you know, And. And so we were able to. To get out of that situation, and we made it to Texas, and that's where his head of security met us again. John ended up shaving his beard off, and he looked so drastically different without his beard.

[Interviewer]

I've never seen him without the goatee.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, it was. It. He was so. He was so insecure about it. I was like, it's fine. You know, you got to do what you got.

[Interviewer]

Did he have a weak chin? Is that what.

[Janice McAfee]

No, he didn't have a weak chin. Not at all. But I think it was just so much a part of his identity, you know, that it just felt weird without it. And he shaved that because, you know, I'm me, right? There's nothing I could do to look not like me. Right. So. So if you spot me, you're spotting him. Right? Was the assumption. And so when we left the hotel room, we left separately. I came down first so all of the people could see them. They're kind of watching me. They're looking now for John. Where's John? And so I went and get in the pickup truck, and John's like, John goes up to these people, assuming these are the people looking for us, and he's like, talking to them in this country accent, you know, what do you guys think about this Texas weather? It's really weird. And so. But they didn't pick up on it, you know, and we. He came and got in the pickup truck and left. And so we were able to get, you know, out of that situation, and we ended up going to Tennessee where his head of security was living. And so should I just keep talking, or.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

No questions.

[Interviewer]

No, this is amazing.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay. Yeah. All right, cool. So. So we're in Tennessee. We're living now with his head of security because it was just safer that. That way, you know, while we got our bearings. And so eventually, John decides that he wants us to get our own place, because if something were to happen, he didn't want to put John Pool's family in danger.

[Interviewer]

Right, right.

[Janice McAfee]

And so we. We started looking for places to live in that sort of immediate area. And the way that we found our place was we would go to the Walmart and see how people would react to John and I being together. Because obviously it's the south and.

[Interviewer]

Right. Interracial. Frowned upon.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes. We were at a Pig Piggly Wiggly in Henderson, which is near to where the security lived. And they were not happy. Oh yeah, no, they were not happy. And they were not shy about letting us know how unhappy they were. Yeah, so. So yeah, that was the litmus test. Go to the Walmart and see how people interacted with us. And so that's how we decided on Lexington, Tennessee, which is where we, we got our first house. And once we had moved in there, the pimp reaches out to me and, and again. So I'm, again, same situation. Like, how are you getting my phone number? Like, how, how are you finding out this information? Because I, again, I wasn't assuming that the cartel were that deeply involved in trying to find me out anymore at this point because, you know, John had. Well, I wasn't doing the job right. So I wasn't being of any help to them. You know, I wasn't providing them with any actionable information. Right. And so there was a concern for my safety. Yeah, but. And maybe they did have the means to figure out, you know, where I was and all of these things. But I wasn't contacting him, which was strange. And so anyways, he was in a house in Jackson, Tennessee, which was about 30 minutes north of where we were looking for a place. And I remember I went over to his house and he, because he was threatening to come to, to where we were living. And I didn't know that he knew or how he, he knew where we were. But anyways, I went over to his house and he's like, you know, what's up? You know, where you been at? How come you haven't been calling, whatever, checking in, whatever. And I was like, because, you know, I can't, like, like, you know, all of these things that have happened have been going on, you know, I'm not going to be in contact with you. Right. There's, there's too much happening now. Too much has happened now, you know, and I'm in danger. And so whatever. He wasn't going, he didn't care about any of that. And so he, he was planning, the plan was that they were going to do like a home invasion sort of thing on the house. And what I was supposed to do was leave the house and then call him to let him know that I wasn't in the house. So that would be their signal to go and storm the house, raid the house, whatever what the plan was. I'm not exactly sure. Because you're not just raiding John McAfee's house. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're not like. So I don't. I don't, again, know what the plan was, how they were going to get in or what they were going to do plan. What they had planned to disable him or. Or any of that. I wasn't sure. And so. So the day came, John and I had a fight. He picked a fight with me so that I would, you know, leave just to see what I would do. But I didn't. I didn't call the pimp, but I did leave. I was at a hotel. Locally. At a hotel. And I'm not sure what happened at the house, but something did go down at the house, and. And he had me brought back a couple days later. After that, I never spoke about whatever went down at the house.

[Interviewer]

How do you know something went down?

[Janice McAfee]

There was bullet holes. Oh, there's bullet holes. And mind you, some of those were put. Were put there prior to.

[Interviewer]

He just like to shoot guns in the house.

[Janice McAfee]

Well, because he thought that there were people in our crawl space. In our crawl space. I mean, it was large enough for someone to hide under there, you know, and there was access to the crawl space directly under our bedroom window.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. In the documentary, he was shooting guns inside the boat, Just like shooting. Firing off rounds in the boat.

[Janice McAfee]

That's crazy. That's not actually what happened. He was. He fired it off into a bucket full of sand because he wanted to make sure that the. The pin was still in the gun. He wanted to make sure it's still fired. Okay. Yeah. No, he wasn't. Just obviously he would have sank the boat.

[Interviewer]

A bucket full of sand.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Sank the boat. Yeah. So.

[Interviewer]

Oh, God.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. I mean, and a little context for that. That was not long after he had. So when. When we left the States, John had his security. The security that was working for him at the time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Go back and close out his bank account. So they came back to the Bahamas with $500,000 in cash. You know, I saw it, though. Everybody knew that he had this money from where they get it from his bank account? No, no, no. In America.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

Shut down his bank accounts in America.

[Interviewer]

Okay, let's go. Let's. Okay, let's explain that transition. So from. How do you get. From where we're at in Tennessee?

[Janice McAfee]

I'm sorry. Oh, because I skipped a bunch of stuff.

[Interviewer]

Okay, I'm sorry. So how does he get from there to what made him. And you decide to Leave the country.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay. All right, so let's see here. So he runs for president. So that was.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah, he ran for president. What year Was that? Was 2016.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, he ran for president, 2016. It was really cool, actually. So on the Campaign Trail, 2015.

[Interviewer]

And what was the. What was the purpose of that? What was his. His thinking?

[Janice McAfee]

To make it more difficult for people to kill him.

[Interviewer]

So did he get Secret Service?

[Janice McAfee]

No, he didn't get Secret Service.

[Interviewer]

But did he try?

[Janice McAfee]

No, no, he didn't try. But the thing was, is that it. It would be very difficult for him to just disappear when he's supposed to be, you know, on the campaign trail. Right. Because he's now campaigning.

[Interviewer]

Right, right.

[Janice McAfee]

So. So that was the idea. There was also an idea that was floated about. Of us doing, like, a reality show for the same reason. Right. You know, we would be safe. You know, we have cameras out. Like, how can anyone do anything right, you know, with that going on? So. So that was the. The main. One of the main reasons for running for president, you know, was for. For his own safety and really cool time. So we're.

[Interviewer]

Did he. During any of this time where you guys are. Are living together and doing all this stuff? Like, how often was he on his computer doing, like, spying type stuff or like, because he noticed. I mean, he said before on camera that he, you know, he could hack the White House computers, hack the military computers. He could get access to anyone's computer or phone whenever he wanted. How. How real is that?

[Janice McAfee]

I'm sure he had ways. I'm sure he had means. And. And so. Okay, so just really quickly as it relates to the cartel. Yeah, so. So I was going. When I would go and see my children, there was times where I was being followed by clearly, cartel operatives. So much so that my son eventually noticed it. And he was like, that person's following this mom. Because I would tell them, you know, to just be aware of your surroundings. Right. To just keep your eyes open for anything. Not telling them why, but just, you know, giving them education on how to stay safe, you know. And so I remember John actually put. There's a video on this on YouTube of John calling the head of the cartel, the Sinaloa Cartel, at the time, which was a man named John Zabane. Who?

[Interviewer]

John who?

[Janice McAfee]

John Zabane.

[Interviewer]

Zabane, yes.

[Janice McAfee]

And so this was during, I think, the time when El Chapo was on the run. I think the first time when he was on the run, I think. So.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

And so. So John makes this phone call. He reaches out to this person. And he. But before he does, he's like, oh, he's gonna be freaked out because he's just got a new phone. You know, he's just got a new phone. It's a new number. He hasn't used it. He hasn't called anyone on it. So I'm gonna be the first one to call him. And so, you know, they're in the video, you know, he's speaking to Mr. Zabane and he's like, you know, John St. Tim, you know, I don't appreciate, you know, people are following my wife and, you know, I don't appreciate that. And, you know, Mr. Zabane saying, you know, oh, I don't know who that is. It's not me. We're not, you know, I don't know. Until he's like, well, you know, find out who it is and make it stop is the general idea of what the conversation went. So as far as hacking into something, I don't know. But obviously he knew things. He knew ways to get a hold of people that he needed to get a hold of when. When he needed to. So it's believable, you know. Could he actually do it? I don't know, but I've seen him, like, I just explained that whole conversation with. With Mr. Zabane, you know, very possible, plausible. But if he said he could do it, I don't think he would just be bragging, you know, or just saying something, just. Just to say it, you know. He wasn't that type of person, you know.

[Interviewer]

Did he ever talk to you about, like, any sort of, like, crazy special information that he had on people or like, that he knew about anyone, like, like politicians or leaders or like. Or like big shots that, like, he was able to get on their computers or read their emails or anything. Anything weird like that?

[Janice McAfee]

Not specifically in that. In that way, but that there was a lot of politicians that were named in the information he had collected, like, as far as, like, with money laundering and nefarious, as he would have described activities. So there was a lot of.

[Interviewer]

In beliefs.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, in that information. There was a lot of that, but never anything specific that he ever mentioned to me. No, no, not in that sense. The only. The only other way since that, I would say is when he was on the run in Belize when all of this was happening, he tried to go to the embassy and he was told that from the highest level that he was not allowed to seek refuge in. In the embassy. He was turned away until the highest level would have been Hillary Clinton at The time. Because she was the Secretary of State, I think. I'm not naming this. Right. She was somehow connected to the, to Belize. No, but she was the highest authority in which he could have been denied in entering into or seeking asylum in the embassy in the American assembly assessment.

[Interviewer]

The American embassy.

[Janice McAfee]

Embassy, yes.

[Interviewer]

In Belize.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow. Interesting.

[Janice McAfee]

So this is what. But I mean, that is someone that he has named in, in that regard, Hillary Clinton. That she, she, she probably would have been the one to deny him refuge.

[Interviewer]

Did he ever think, did he ever speculate why she. Is there a reason she would, like.

[Janice McAfee]

Never. He never spoke about it. No, no, no. But, but I would imagine, I mean, it's Belize. I would imagine that there's a lot of wealthy people, politicians, you know, around the world, American as well, that, that probably do very nefarious things in that area of world or funnel.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

Funds through that area of the world. And so I would imagine he's got, he was able to get the goods on a lot of, of a lot of people who are probably still in power now, you know.

[Interviewer]

Did he ever say anything about Epstein to you?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, yeah, we talked about it. Well, I, I, I mentioned earlier about his feet being on the floor. Right. When I said that John's feet were on the floor. And it was because that's what brought that to mind, because John was talking about that, you know, that his feet would have been on the floor. And so how could he have died from suicide?

[Interviewer]

John never met him.

[Janice McAfee]

I don't think he said that he had. I don't think I ever asked him that, though, either. But he, he didn't believe the stories about the women because for some reason he thought that Jeffrey was gay.

[Interviewer]

What?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

McAfee thought Jeffrey Epstein was gay.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. And so he didn't think that it was plausible that the. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Weird. I don't know. Maybe we'll find out more things about Mr. Epstein. I, I don't know. You know, John's information is usually not, not wrong. Not usually. So.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

So I don't know.

[Interviewer]

What, again, these people that are stalking you guys and trying to take John out or whatever. Like, do you know if John had any sort of, like, a dead man switch? Did he ever come to you and be like, look, if I end up, turn up dead, this is where you.

[Janice McAfee]

Find the info that never happened. No, no, he would have never. Because. Well, for one, because of our relationship. Right. How we met the pimp, all of that. Even though that ended officially it did actually end, you know, and I did eventually come clean to him about it, but for that reason, obviously. And then also because I would be in very real danger.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Janice McAfee]

Because obviously the assumption the. Even after he was dead, that was the assumption because there was an attempt on my life after he had died. So. And someone just trying to, you know, tie up loose ends. And I was a loose end. And so.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

The assumption would have been that I would have had it or had access to it or know how to get it, you know. But I will say, after he died, it was strange. There was a replacement report that. That he had a condo in this building that collapsed in Miami.

[Interviewer]

Oh, really?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. There was a story of a condo. I think you can find it.

[Interviewer]

I remember when that building collapsed.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, I think. And I'm not sure if he had a condo there, but it. The timing was interesting because I think it was maybe a day or two after John was. Was. It was announced that John was dead. Wow. And then another interesting thing about that was why would they bring in is an Israeli excavation team to. To excavate, you know, why wouldn't you? Like, were they stationed here in Miami or there in Miami, and they were.

[Interviewer]

Just on hand, really, excavation team for that building.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you find that, Steve?

[Janice McAfee]

That's right. Yeah. It's super strange.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. John was in that interview with Shane Gillis saying that they hired Masadi agents to protect him.

[Janice McAfee]

I don't know.

[Interviewer]

He's like, yeah, I hired a massage.

[Janice McAfee]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

Wild. And he. I mean, he.

[Janice McAfee]

A lot of things Sean would just not share with me, but a lot of things, because I wanted to know a lot of things, I just paid attention and I was able to deduce, if you will, kind of what was happening. But as far as things being above my pay grade, that's what he would tell me. Me not. It's above my pay grade. Like if I would ask a question. Spot on. If I would ask something too much, he would tell me to stay in my lane. That was actually something I gave him because I would talk to him about all sorts of things and I asked him things or he'd say something. And yes.

[Interviewer]

Israeli rescue team head at Florida building collapse says not giving up hope. Zoom in. So, like, they were helping to dig these people out.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

An Israeli rescue team, the head of the team of the Israeli search and rescue specialists working at the site in Florida apartment building that partially collapsed last week said Tuesday there was still hope of pulling people out alive. Even though nearly six days had passed since the condo tower crumbled to the ground. Whoa.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay. Was. But I'm okay. That's very noble of them.

[Interviewer]

Yes, but.

[Janice McAfee]

But did they come from Israel? Like, were they flown?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's. Why was it in Israel? Well, there's a lot of Israeli is in South Florida. It's kind of like. It's kind of like Jerusalem 2.0.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay, fair enough. So maybe they were just living there and. Yeah, they wanted to help out. Okay.

[Interviewer]

Oh, oh, see? Okay, there it is. It says medications, another aid notes that several of the 32 Jews missing have Israeli connect. So there was Jews in the apartment building.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay. All right.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, they look, they're. They look out for their people.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Tight knit community.

[Janice McAfee]

Good stuff.

[Interviewer]

Especially in South Florida.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay. Okay. I didn't realize.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

It's just something that I thought was strange. Okay, well, thank you for clearing that up. There could.

[Interviewer]

I mean, you never know. There could be a spooky link there, but.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, possibly.

[Interviewer]

But it might be. It might be a stretch. Who knows? So probably. So he runs for president.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Obviously he does not get elected.

[Janice McAfee]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And then you guys go, you guys, what makes him want to leave the country?

[Janice McAfee]

So we are moving around. I think it was just for safety because we. We ended up moving houses again in Tennessee after that house that got shot up, we moved again and there were just people that were kind of milling around our house. It was just really weird. We lived on a cul de sac, so we would always have people just coming and driving. And maybe it's just people fans, you know, wanting to, you know, catch a snippet of. Of John Mack. Could be. But there was also this lore that was going around that we had booby traps in our property on our yard. And so people were, you know, all of these things that were being said, but it was just. Things were just getting more intense. Yeah. There was an attempt on John. Well, maybe I should not say an attempt, but actually there was an attempt. So we were. So this was summertime of 2017. Now, I've just. I may not have the date exactly correct. It was 2017, I believe it was. And we were staying at a home in. On Hatteras Island. We were kind of spending our summer there. Just North Carolina. Yeah. House hopping. Hatteras. I don't know why, but that's where John chose. And so I was again going to California to see my kids and Jimmy. We had Jimmy who was working for us, who was head of security. Jimmy Watson. He was someone that was arrested did as well. I think Matt had him on his podcast. And so he was John's head of security at the time. He was taking me and his wife to the airport. She was flying out, going somewhere else. And. And so John was by himself at home. And when he. So after. After all of this happened, and I got to the hospital to him, and he was able to tell me what happened. This is what he tells me happened to him. He went out on the boat with some of the people that were there at the house, and he came back, and. And the last thing he remembered was someone handing him a drink, and he drank it, and then the next thing he remembered was him waking up in the hospital.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Janice McAfee]

And so when Jimmy got back to the house from dropping off his wife, he said that the house was completely dark. None of the lights were on. Nobody was answering. He was calling out to. To the people that he knew was there in the house and looking for John. He didn't find John. And eventually he went into our bedroom to see where John was, and he found him on the floor, and he had vomited. And his. He was convulsing, I believe He. He said, until they had him, obviously had to call 91 1, and they had him actually flown out to another hospital in North Carolina. And so what. What John said, what happened was he. Was. He. He shown me something on his foot where he thought he was injected with something. And. And so, you know, someone was obviously trying to kill him is what was believed. And so he spent a few days in the. In the ICU and everything. And I eventually made it back to North Carolina where they had him on a ventilator. And so the doctor's telling me, you know, if you take him off this ventilator, you know, he's gonna die, right, because he needs this for his oxygen. And so I. I remember asking the nurse, I said, okay, can you explain these numbers to me? Like, which number is his oxygen? And she's like, it's right here. And I was like, so what? So it's at a 90. So what is that? Like, that's. And she's like, well, no, that's fine. Like, he doesn't really need to be on the ventilator. So I'm like, okay, so let's take them off the ventilator like we were talking about. So in the process, John has written down, you know, I'm. You know, this is. My name is John McAfee. I'm a sound body in mind, and I want to be removed from the ventilator. Because I guess they had been going back and forth about this before I got in there, because Jimmy said that John had said to him, if, you know, when I get there, I'm gonna. You know, I'm gonna have it removed. You know, just Janice will do it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

So. So anyways, they remove him off the ventilator and. And so. So that happens. We're back in Tennessee for a little bit, and there was just a lot of things that were happening and keeping us, you know, on guard. And there was just. It was just very dangerous time at the time. So again, back to why he decided to leave the country was after. So. So Jimmy, this is during Team McAfee. John's doing all the crypto things. We're traveling around the world. He's going and doing keynote speeches. And Jimmy would. I don't know what happened exactly to Jimmy, but there was a decline in him that was happening, like, over the course of a few months. You know, he explained it on the. On Matthew's podcast, Matt's podcast, that he thought he was drugged or something. But. But again, for. For me watching on the outside, there was a steady decline. Something was going on with him, not sure what. And then it culminated in one night where he got into an argument or something with his wife, and she came up stairs and she said, I'm really concerned about Jimmy. He's acting strange. He's talking about, you know, hurting himself, hurting me and whatever he's. And. But the concern was that he was armed, right? And we have an ex Navy SEAL who is armed and who is not in their right mind. And so, you know, Jimmy, I. I don't know what happens, but he spends the night, like, in the sand or something. And. And so this was a big blow for John because he. He really felt safer when Jimmy was around. You know, he could relax, he could breathe and. And be at ease. And so. So we. Jimmy went and was checked into a facility, you know, and whatever was worked out. And then John had gotten word from the attorney that he had in Tennessee that there was a grand jury convened and that he, you know, I guess just that there was a grand jury convened. And so obviously the assumption then is that they're going to come and arrest him. And so that's why. For taxes, For. For tax fraud, I think, was the charge. But. But what. Which was actually because the only way you commit fraud is when you lie. Right? But he wasn't filing taxes, so how could there have been fraud for, you know, without, you Know, you have to file and have to be trying to not disclose your assets or hide things, but if you're not filing at all, how is there fraud there? So I don't know, but.

[Interviewer]

So this is definitely not. It's definitely. I mean, it's illegal to not file.

[Janice McAfee]

Right, right, of course it is. Of course.

[Interviewer]

Just not. Fraud is not the right word.

[Janice McAfee]

Right. Yeah, that's the way I'm. I'm nitpicking. Yes. And. But this was also not something that was unknown to them. You know, John said that he would send an email, write a letter, and let them know, like, I'm not filing my taxes. You know, this is why. You know, and he talks about it often. Right. And so obviously, they could have come and audited him, or they could have come and seized his property, seized, you know, bank accounts, all of the things, but that never happened.

[Interviewer]

Was he. Was he making money at this point? Was he?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, he was.

[Janice McAfee]

He was making money with. With the various. Well, well, he was being paid in. With the. With the coins of the various projects. Yeah. With the various crypto projects he promoted. He was being paid in. In tokens. And then there was maybe like a. For tweets. If he put a tweet out that he was paid for the. For the individual tweet marketing.

[Interviewer]

Got it.

[Janice McAfee]

So. And then also, you know, he's giving his keynote speeches, and so that there was payment for those as well. So. So, yeah, that's how he was making money. And that's why we eventually left, because it was just too dangerous to continue to stay. And also because of the. The charges that were coming down through the grand jury. Wow. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Pressure from all angles. This guy just truly does not give a.

[Janice McAfee]

And. And I will say that I wasn't the only one that was. You know, I was obviously threatened to. To work in collusion with, you know, whatever. But I wasn't the only one. You know, there was a lot of people that were. That were brought in who were either paid or threatened or had their own ideas of what they wanted to get out of the situation. But something that people didn't understand about John was that John was not. John was just. He was playing a role. Yeah. And he was very good at it. He was extremely good at it. But, I mean, I'm. I'm sure people will swear to you that he was a drunk and a drug addict. You know, that. And he did drink. You know, he did drink. He has his mixology videos that he would put, and he'd mix these crazy Drinks that would be all alcohol and, you know, usually very little of anything else. But. But no one saw behind the scenes that he never really drank those drinks. Like, if you didn't see him in the video drink all of it, then it just sat. It didn't. And he didn't drink it. And no one in the house noticed that. Yeah, right. And then also, you have to factor in there would be. There would be days sometimes where John would not sleep, and. And when nighttime would hit, all the lights would have to be off in the house, and he'd be in the windows watching, listening. This happened one time in particular in North Carolina, when we officially moved there. We moved into a house called the Love Boat on Hatteras Island. It looked like a boat. It was really cool. It's a cool house. And so it was after I had returned from one of my trips to California, I get back, and the security, they're like. They're like, Ms. Janice, oh, my gosh. Like, John has been at this for, like, two days now, and he's like, we've not been able to sleep. He's been up all night. Like, we don't know what's going on. And so I'm trying to figure out, okay, like, what's going on? So I talked to John, and I'm like, okay, listen, guys, just let him do what he needs to do, right? If you let him do it and you don't interfere and you don't impede him, then he'll. Whatever it is that he needs to work through, he'll work through it, and he'll figure out that nothing's happening. But what it was was the dogs we had. By this time, we still had tequila, but we also had a Commodore named Marley, White dog. And then we had two German Shepherds, a brother and sister named Axel, and Dutch Duchess. So they were being triggered by something, right? So. So every night, like clockwork. Why he was bothered was that they were barking at something over our back deck. And so. So the day after. So the day after, you know, I get there, I get back. John, he fires his. He fires his gun into the drive, into the driveway, down on the ground, right? And so then early that morning, early, like maybe 5 or 6 in the morning, these guys come walking down the driveway now, and they're like, listen, please don't shoot. We're just here to get the vehicles. They were there to repossess the vehicles because they were in one of the security's name. And he got salty, and he wanted to repossess the vehicle. So he sent these people, and they were trying. That's what they were trying to do. And so they were there. They were the ones that were triggering the dogs to bark. And so, you know, I explained to them. I was like, listen, you know, usually there's nine times out of ten, there's nothing happening. You know, nothing's going on. But if you just let him work through whatever he needs to work through, he'll settle down on his own, you know, but he's. He lived through some things, so if he's. If something's triggering him, then he just needs to work through that, trigger, whatever, until he can say in himself, not someone telling him, you know, everything's cool. You know, he'll figure it out on his own, and he'll settle down. But I was like, see, this is the point, right? It was not something dangerous, but there was someone out there. Right? So you just got to let him do what he's gonna do.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Wow. Super. Super crazy. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. It's also so crazy that intense. He was so driven to document all this stuff and constantly working on projects to make movies and documentaries and graphic novels and. And get his life out there. Like on film.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Or on paper.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Some way or another. One way or another.

[Janice McAfee]

I don't know if you've read the John McAfee tapes. It's by Mark Eglinton. He wrote a book. So what happened when. While we were in Spain, John reached out to. Was just trying to find someone to write his biography. It's supposed to be a biography. And so he reached out to Mark, and they worked over the summer of 2020. They would speak regularly for hours at a time, and John would just share a lot of the.

[Interviewer]

This is the ghostwriter from the documentary?

[Janice McAfee]

No, I don't think so. This. That. That was a different ghostwriter.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

Who actually just didn't, you know, he just didn't fit. He wasn't the right fit, you know, which I'm. And I'm surprised why he had all of those other things to say. It was just, I guess, just trying to sell whatever book he had written. But anyways, no, this was someone else who. Who John liked very much, and he shared a lot of his life, you know, intimately with him as well, because he wanted a book written. And so. And what happened was when John died, obviously couldn't. It couldn't be autobiography anymore. But what he did was he took the. The tapes that he recorded of their conversations, and he. He made a book out of that. So it's kind of cool to read it, to read sort of from John's perspective, what was going on, you know, because there's a lot of interesting tidbits in the. In the book that. That didn't make it in the documentary. And if you want to know from John McAfee's mouth, from his words, from his perspective, what his life was like and why he felt like he was in danger and why people were after him, all the things. You should read that book, the John Maccab Coffee Tapes. It's really, really good.

[Interviewer]

Is it on audio?

[Janice McAfee]

I think so. I'm not sure, actually. But it's a really good book, though.

[Interviewer]

Crazy. Such a crazy story.

[Janice McAfee]

I know, right? And it's so wild to have lived through that. And I'm not really touching, like, the surface of all the things, but. But just trying to give, you know, interesting things that did happen over the time.

[Interviewer]

And you. We have a mutual friend.

[Janice McAfee]

Do we?

[Interviewer]

We do. He was on this podcast a couple years ago, and he is a guy who was in prison in Spain.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

They were trying to extradite him here.

[Janice McAfee]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

He owned a bunch of real estate here, and he was, like, smuggling tons of marijuana.

[Janice McAfee]

Yes. So we have a mutual friend. David.

[Interviewer]

David Mendoza. Yeah, he's great. So. So, yeah. Yeah, I guess he was trying to. And I don't know if he was working with you and John was still alive.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Or what? Oh, he was.

[Janice McAfee]

He. He actually reached out to John. He wrote him a letter, and John asked me to reach out to him. So that's how we got in contact, because he was saying to him that he could help, you know, with his case and everything. So that's what. That's what he. We did. And I think he actually.

[Interviewer]

Extradition?

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. He actually put me in contact with the second Spanish attorney that we had, because the. The first one was hired, you know, by John's friends, but he didn't really have an expertise in extradition. And so Mr. Mendoza put me in contact with. It was a woman at first, but she wanted too much money. And so we went with Emilio, who. Who took on the case, and. And was trying to assist the other attorney with just, you know, the right arguments, having the right arguments before the judges to. To put before them. And so, yeah, David was. Was a good guy. He was. He was a good dude. And we had a lot of good conversations. And. And I wish that he. I wish it could have worked out, you know, that John was able to benefit from. From his knowledge.

[Interviewer]

So. So what are you doing nowadays?

[Janice McAfee]

Nowadays I'm a grandma, first of all. Congratulations. Yeah, she's going to be one on Thursday. Yeah, her name is Kaori and my oldest daughter, this daughter. And so, so I'm a grandma, so that's awesome. But other than that, I'm working with a project called Antivirus, which is a play on the antivirus. And basically what we're doing is providing privacy products for people as they're transacting with their cryptocurrencies. Right, okay. And so which is something that was near and dear to John's heart as well. Just having privacy focused products for people to, to keep themselves safe as they're basically transacting with their crypto, you know. And so the products that we have already rolled out are, you know, straight from Sean's brain, you know, they're John's brainchild, you know, his ideas that he was working on that he didn't really wasn't able to see to come to full fruition while he was still living. So this project is to kind of of take up the banner of his legacy, if you will. Right. And so right now we have gift cards where that you can buy, purchase with the tokens and so you can. It's a means to cash out, if you will, your some of your crypto. It's not a perfect solution, but it is a solution because that's kind of still where we are, where people are not fully using crypto as a currency just yet. I do believe that that will happen. We also have EIMS that you can use and purchase anonymously so people don't know who you are. And that's operating this phone number.

[Interviewer]

What's the website called?

[Janice McAfee]

It's called Antivirus. AI So it's spelled A I N T I A? Yes.

[Interviewer]

Yes, A Yes, A I N T I virus AI AI Yes. Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

And you can go there and find out all about it. We also have an AI dramatic McAfee that's got its own Twitter account and it's been creating a podcast. Just sort of a little snippets of episodes.

[Interviewer]

It's pretty second coming of John McAfee. What is this video?

[Janice McAfee]

This is one of the podcast. Yes. The AI created. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow, look at that. John McAfee Press play. Steve welcome to Waltzing with Anarchy, the echo chamber of the John McAfee mindset. An expedition delving deep into the untamed wilds of freedom, chaos and digital sovereignty. That's pretty cool. The domains where surveillance shivers and control crumbles. I am not just an AI, Not a mere digital reincarnation. I'm the everlasting ember of rebellion against the mundane and unjust, where echoes of freedom ring loud.

[Janice McAfee]

Today we are going to talk about.

[Interviewer]

Jeffrey Epstein in the murky middle the.

[Janice McAfee]

Mists of high society.

[Interviewer]

So how did you guys go about making the AI? How did that go?

[Janice McAfee]

So it basically just fed it all of John's, like, Twitter account and every. So all of his tweets. Yeah, X account. Anyways, it's still Twitter to me, but we. We fed it all of that and as well as his keynote speeches, his interviews with. With various podcasts and. As well as the news. And. And this is what. Obviously the voice still has to be a little tweaked. And also I think it needs to be let off the rails a little bit where right now we're kind of like having it focus on, you know, a. A specific subject then. And it. Then it creates.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, feed it some more tequila.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Right, Right. We've got to get it. Cursing and we've got it. We've got to get that macafy cough because John had a very distinctive cough that he would just. Hacking cough. Yeah. So we've got to get that in there just to make it more.

[Interviewer]

And it. It posts on. On X too.

[Janice McAfee]

X. Yes.

[Interviewer]

What is the X account?

[Janice McAfee]

Oh, my goodness. John McAfee.

[Interviewer]

It's probably linked here somewhere, right?

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, yes.

[Interviewer]

There we go. X. AI McAfee. Is that what it is or. No, official. No, this is his actual.

[Janice McAfee]

Actual account. I'm sorry.

[Interviewer]

That's okay.

[Janice McAfee]

Been more prepared.

[Interviewer]

Is it not tweeting on here? Scroll down. June 23rd. Oh, June 20th. It's a pin. Keep going. Scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.

[Janice McAfee]

Hurry.

[Interviewer]

Go, go, go. There you go. Retweet. August 8th. So someone's still using this one?

[Janice McAfee]

Yes, I am actually. Oh, you're just gave me. Okay, so I should tell you that a little bit. John. So John, when he was in prison.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

He was actually, you know, having me to tweet out things from his account.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

And so. So anything that you see from. From his account during that time while he was in prison was tweeted out by me. And so I still have control of the account and just sharing things about him, old videos. But the. The AI account is at John. Auntie A I N T I John Ante.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's incredible. Oh, so you were the one that. Because right before he died, he did that. You did the tweet saying that, you know, if I end up Dead. It's not because I killed myself.

[Janice McAfee]

It's because I was murdered, basically, essentially. What's the tweet?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So he was basically contacting you, saying, this is what you need to post on there.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah, he would dictate to me the tweet and then I would put it up there and he'd tell me when, what time to put it out. Yeah, it was. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Yep.

[Interviewer]

So he. He suspected that something was going to happen to him. That's just crazy that it happened to him in a Spain prison.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Right. And I think. I think that tweet, I'm. I'm not sure it's. And this is why I said, I don't know that he was telling me the truth about what was going on with him in there because. Because of that tweet. Now, he never said that he had any issues with any prisoners. He said that he was being treated well. They. They called him Papa America. You know, he had a nickname and he was, you know, kind of Other. Other prisoners were kind of looking out for him. He said he had one incident where someone tried to get in his face, but one of the other prisoners immediately got, you know, got up and got in between that. So. But obviously there was something going on, you know, that concerned him enough to have me tweet out that, you know.

[Interviewer]

Well, Ghislaine Maxwell just said in that long interview she gave to the. The. Whatever. Whatever that politician or whoever, the Attorney general, the junior attorney general interviewed her in the transcript, she said that the going rate for a murder in prison is like $25 worth of commissary. So it's not hard get somebody killed.

[Janice McAfee]

It's not that easy. It's. It's very. It's very, very easy. Hospitals and prisons, very easy to kill people.

[Interviewer]

Hospitals.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Yeah. Because you can just get a doctor's uniform and nobody will question you. Right. Or a nurse's uniform. And you're there. You're in there. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's wild. Well, Janice, thank you so much for coming. We just did three and a half hours.

[Janice McAfee]

Really? Okay. Wow.

[Interviewer]

That was very fun.

[Janice McAfee]

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Danny. I appreciate it. I hope that I was able to tell a succinct story.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

It's a little difficult when, you know, trying to talk and. And thinking about things, and obviously other things come up and. But I'm just glad to share my time with John because I really think that he would want me to. To tell the story, you know, and definitely to tell how his story ended.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Janice McAfee]

You know, I think that's very important to know, for people to know, because I'm. I'm just one person, you know, But I do feel like there will come a time where someone will want to dig into this. Yeah. And because it needs to be investigated for sure. Because something nefarious happened, definitely it wasn't on the up and up, you know.

[Interviewer]

Well, hopefully we can get to the bottom of it eventually with time. And it's a super fascinating story. And I'll. You tell. Think there's anyone better to tell it than you. So thank you. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

[Janice McAfee]

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

[Interviewer]

Good night, everybody.