#352 - NASA Apollo Astronaut Finally Faces Off Against #1 Moon Landing Skeptic | Charles Duke & Bart Sibrel

Summary

Danny Jones Podcast #352

NASA Apollo Astronaut Finally Faces Off Against #1 Moon Landing Skeptic
Guests: Charles Duke (Apollo 16 Astronaut), Bart Sibrel (Moon Landing Skeptic)
Date: December 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

This landmark episode brings together General Charles Duke, Apollo 16 astronaut and the 10th person to walk on the moon, and Bart Sibrel, one of the world's most outspoken proponents of the moon landing hoax theory. Host Danny Jones moderates a respectful but pointed debate, oscillating between Duke’s firsthand accounts from inside NASA and Sibrel’s meticulously compiled conspiracy arguments. The conversation spans the inception, execution, and aftermath of the Apollo missions, addressing technical, psychological, and cultural factors at the heart of the moon landing debate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charles Duke’s Apollo Story

[02:24 – 40:26]

• Background & NASA Selection:
  • Duke details his journey from Air Force fighter pilot and MIT graduate to NASA’s test pilot program ([02:31]).
  • Describes applying after seeing a newspaper ad seeking astronauts ([06:34]).
• Training & Geology:
  • Astronaut training involved geology field trips and intensive technical simulations in various locales worldwide ([08:35]).
• Mission Control & Apollo 11:
  • Duke served as Capcom (capsule communicator) for Apollo 10 and 11 landings, the liaison between astronauts and Mission Control ([16:40], [17:29]).
  • Describes tension during Apollo 11’s fuel-short landing:

    "We called 60 seconds. He had 60 seconds to land… I called 30 seconds. They were close, but not on the ground... We were 15 seconds or so before calling an abort when Buzz Aldrin said, 'Contact. Engine stop.' They’re on the moon."
    — Charles Duke ([19:38])

• Apollo 16, Launch, and Lunar Landing:
  • Vividly recounts the liftoff, lunar descent, and first steps on the moon ([24:11]–[34:27]).
  • Explains the use of the lunar rover and rock collection expeditions ([32:25]).

2. Bart Sibrel’s Skepticism & Core Arguments

[41:30 – 236:46]

• Deathbed Confession (Canon AFB):
  • Claims a security chief at Cannon Air Force Base confessed to filming faked moon landing footage, even admitting to murder for cover-up ([41:30]–[49:10]).
  • Presents a video of the son recounting his father’s story ([45:35]).
• Trustworthiness and Oaths:
  • Argues astronauts' top-secret clearances supposedly make their testimonies suspect ([51:19]).
• Government Distrust and Cold War Context:
  • Highlights the climate of deception during the Cold War (JFK assassination, Gulf of Tonkin, MK Ultra, etc.) as rationale for skepticism ([58:26]–[62:10]).
• NASA Technology & Lost Footage:
  • Points to NASA’s admitted loss or destruction of original Apollo telemetry data and video tapes as evidence of a cover-up ([75:11], [81:49]).
• Moon Rocks Allegations:
  • Cites the Dutch “moon rock” exposed as petrified wood and claims rocks could be meteorites or manufactured ([88:02], [93:52]).
• Technical Challenges: Radiation Belts & Rocketry
  • Argues that passage through the Van Allen radiation belts should have been lethal ([132:08], [138:49]).
  • Quotes von Braun’s writings and vintage clips asserting that direct Earth-to-Moon missions would require impractically massive rockets or multiple launches/refueling ([154:16], [161:37]).
  • Points to current requirements for multiple launches for Artemis as proof Apollo’s single-shot missions were impossible.
• Photographic Analysis & AI Claims:
  • Contends lunar shadow photos show studio lighting; disputes scientific explanations involving lens and perspective ([180:38], [189:17]).
  • Introduces a Russian AI that allegedly detected Apollo photos as synthetic, but admits there is no public verification ([196:07]).
• Astronaut Psychological States:
  • Interprets the reserved demeanor of Apollo 11 astronauts in press conferences as possible guilt or trauma from deception ([201:14], [204:31]).

3. The Debate: Claims, Counterclaims, and Notable Exchanges

On Technical Feasibility & Missing Data

• Bart:

  “The problem is, for the first time in history, technology was greater in the past than in the future … NASA says they destroyed the technology and it’s a painful process to build it back again.” ([75:26])

• Duke:

  “We flew to the moon, okay? The program was successful. We did six landings.” ([75:47])

On Trust and Oaths

• Bart:

  “If you’re willing to lie to your wife and children, why should we believe you?”
  ([52:51])

• Duke:

  “No, I’m not lying to them. I’m not lying to anybody. I tell the truth. I landed on the moon.”
  ([53:00])

• Host (Danny):

  “Just because somebody has a top secret clearance … that doesn’t mean that he is inherently a liar.”
  ([53:06])

On Moon Rocks

• Bart:

  “A rock, chain of custody, from the moon, Neil Armstrong’s hand, ends up being fake … it’s a piece of petrified wood.” ([92:06])

• Duke:

  “The moon rocks are unique … their radiation history is unique … they were collected on every mission.” ([89:55])

• On the Dutch rock (clarification):
  • Host finds documentation showing it was U.S. Ambassador, not Armstrong, who gave the gift during the Apollo 11 goodwill tour ([93:38]–[100:04]).

On Van Allen Belts and Radiation

• Bart:

  “According to NASA, the radiation belts are 30,000 miles thick ... If you were going 20,000 miles an hour that would be an hour and a half in the radiation.”
  ([138:49])

  • Cites 2014 NASA interview:

    “We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space.”
    ([143:01])

• Duke:

  “We went through so fast … you’re exposed to so much radiation, but it’s just a boom you’re through, you know.”
  ([138:12])

On Rocket Technology & Modern Missions

• Bart: (quoting von Braun, then referencing Elon Musk and Artemis)

  “Von Braun said mathematically: three rockets, each one taller than the Empire State Building, would be required to do a direct flight to the moon and back … Musk’s Starship, twice the capacity of Saturn V, needs 15 launches to refuel before doing a lunar trip. How could Apollo do it in one shot?” ([154:16], [158:16])

On Photographic “Proof”

• Bart:

  “It is scientifically impossible for shadows to intersect in sunlight … yet Apollo photos show this.” ([181:23])

• Host (after playing counter-explanations):

  “This is the worst piece of evidence because I think this is easily blown out of the water.” ([195:21])

Memorable Moments & Tone

• Host (Danny) to Charlie Duke:

  “Can you put yourself in somebody’s shoes … like mine ... being presented with some of the stuff that Bart's shown and say, ‘maybe this was faked’?”
  ([214:40])

• Duke’s calm resolve:

  “I walked on the moon… The evidence is overwhelming.”
  ([51:08], [232:16])

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Duke on Apollo 11 landing:

  “We were … 15 seconds or so before calling an abort when Buzz Aldrin said, ‘Contact. Engine stop.’ They're on the moon. Wow. Tension was through the roof at mission control.”
  ([19:38])

• Bart on moon landing fraud:

  “To me that would be like debating if the sky is blue … They did fake the moon landing. I'd bet my life on it.”
  ([01:53])

• Bart, referencing supposed deathbed confession:

  “He said it was to cover up the moon landing fraud, which they both had eyewitnessed. … And so he murdered him to keep it a secret.”
  ([43:43])

• Duke on moon landing disbelief:

  “I don't understand the purpose of this discussion … I walked on the moon.”
  Throughout (~[149:54], [168:38], [214:06])

• Bart, on AI and photo analysis:

  “The smartest AI in the world ... just said all the Apollo pictures were fake.”
  ([196:07])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Duke’s NASA career and Apollo training: [02:24 – 14:48]
• Mission Control/Apollo 11 perspective: [16:40 – 23:51]
• Apollo 16 experience & first steps on Moon: [24:11 – 34:27]
• Bart’s introduction, deathbed confessions & major evidence: [41:30 – 54:44]
• Moon rocks controversy: [87:59 – 100:04]
• Film, telemetry data, and lost NASA footage: [75:11 – 85:09]
• Van Allen Belts & radiation debate: [132:08 – 153:01]
• Rocket science and von Braun’s calculations: [154:16 – 165:04]
• Lunar photo analysis and shadow arguments: [180:38 – 195:26]
• Post-flight press conference/psychological effects: [201:14 – 212:12]
• Final arguments from both guests: [232:16 – end]

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Memorable Moments & Exchanges

• Duke’s cheerful recall of moonwalks:
  “I'm on the moon. It's just exciting.” ([33:30])
• Host steps in as debate gets personal:
  “I don’t think... just because he has a top secret clearance and he’s under an oath to protect government secrets, that doesn't mean he is inherently a liar.” ([53:06])
• Bart’s AI claim:
  “The neural network has analyzed a lot of data including light and dark contrast etc and then it believes the photo is synthetic.” ([196:57])

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Conclusion & Reflections

By episode’s close, neither side budges—the astronaut stands fast on memory, training, physical evidence (moon rocks, photos, captured landing sites via LRO), and a lifetime of testimony. The skeptic counters with stories of government deceit, destroyed records, technical impossibility, suspicious astronaut deaths, and alleged “smoking gun” video evidence.

Danny Jones, mediating, underscores the episode’s central challenge: At a time of institutional mistrust, extraordinary claims (on both sides) demand extraordinary evidence. The debate, rich in candor and contentious but civil, leaves listeners with deep historical, scientific, and philosophical food for thought.

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Contact the Guests:

• Charles Duke: charlieduke.com
• Bart Sibrel: sabrell.com

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Links to primary clips, documents, and all presented evidence are available at the respective guest sites and show notes.

Transcript

[A]

Get your mother loving ears on because your big time radio DJs got news. PayPal lets you choose how you want to pay for all the stuff. With PayPal, I can pay in store, pay online, or pay overtime.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

You want this translated into song? I hope you're sitting down.

[C]

You can pay your own way.

[A]

You keep those ears on, you hear? Don't just pay, baby.

[C]

PayPal.

[B]

Learn [e-mail]. All right, gentlemen, thank you both for being here. Mr. Charlie Duke, it's a pleasure to meet you.

[A]

Thank you very much.

[B]

Bart Sibrell, thanks again for traveling halfway across the world to come here and hang out with me and Charlie Duke. To start this thing off, I want to basically introduce both you guys. Charlie, you are an Apollo astronaut, one of the last four surviving Apollo astronauts, the 10th man to walk on the moon on the Apollo 16 moon landing mission. And Bart, you are the world's leaning proponent in the moon landing hoax hypothesis I'll call it. And you've made, you spent. This has been your life's work basically proving that or trying to make the case that the Apollo moon landing program was a, a American propaganda campaign during the Cold War and it was all filmed on a set and they never actually went to the moon. Does that sum it up pretty well?

[C]

Pretty much half my life anyway. The first half, I believe they went to the moon.

[B]

So obviously, like the last time you and I talked, we thought it would be a great idea to have you debate somebody on this. I don't know if have you ever done a debate on this with anybody?

[C]

No. To me that would be like debating if the sky is blue, it's blue. And they did fake the moon landing. I bet my life on it. Now a little bit.

[B]

Pull your mic a little closer.

[C]

So the people, normally they propose to debate me are victims of the deception, which I have no interest in. Beating up someone who's a victim. I said find somebody who's a perpetrator, either one of the astronauts or a NASA administrator. And you did. Here he is.

[A]

Here I am.

[B]

So Charlie Duke, could you please give us a little background in, in your history and how you got involved in the Apollo program?

[A]

In the beginning, I was a fighter pilot in the Air force, went to MIT, got a master's degree and graduated 64, went to test pilot school and graduated 65. Summer 65. And I'd met some astronauts that had come to MIT. They had the contract to build the Apollo guidance and navigation system. And I was working on that system and all gung ho, guys. And so I decided to take their advice, go to test pilot school and maybe have a chance at space program. A couple of months after I graduated from test pilot school in the summer of 65, NASA had another call for astronauts, and four of us at Edwards applied and we all got accepted. So, and, and it'd be May OR so of 1966, we, we went to Houston and started working on Apollo.

[B]

So during this conversation, I want to do some, some, I want to take some time to do some back and forth on, on some of the cases Bart has made in his documentaries. And. But before we do that, I want to spend some time going through your personal story and your firsthand account on the Apollo missions. Does that sound good to you? Okay, so at what age, how old were, how old were you when you first learned about the US Government gearing up to go into space and this, the whole space race and all this stuff?

[A]

Well, I remember the first human beings that went into space, Yuri Gagarin in 61, and Alan Shepard followed him. And right after that, I found out now that the Russians were beating us in space. And so Kennedy put out a desire of what? How can we beat him? And Wernher von Braun said, we can beat him to the moon. And I got a copy of the letter that he sent to President Kennedy and he said, okay, we'll go to the moon. So he committed to the Apollo program. And that was.

[B]

Do you remember how old you were?

[A]

Well, I was sick. It was in 60, 61 or 2. So I was born in 35. So I was 30, less than 30 years old. Oh, wow. Yeah.

[B]

And I remember seeing specifically there were interviews with, I think this might have been a von Braun interview from your documentary where they were asking von Braun about the space race with Russia, and he was explaining it in an analogy to where he said, Russia is already in a full sprint. We haven't even started walking yet. Like, we have to gear up. We have a long time to gear up and to speed up before we're even running at the same pace they are, before we have to do all that before we can even think about closing the gap between us and Russia.

[A]

Well, that might be true. I don't remember that level of detail, but I do have a copy of the letter that he sent to President Kennedy. I believe it was. It said, the only way we can beat him is beat them to the moon. And so they committed to the moon. And by the end of the decade, which I thought was crazy, I mean, 15 minutes in space and we're going to land on the moon in the next eight, eight and a half years. Turns out I sitting in Mission Control in July 1969, eight years and two months later and I'm talking to Neil Armstrong on the moon.

[B]

Let's go to the point where you first decided like, like how did the process work for you to be chosen to be selected for this program?

[A]

I had grad, as I said, I'd graduated from the test pilot school at Edwards Air Force Base in the summer of 65. And in September of that year I saw an ad in a paper that's NASA's looking for more astronauts. Please apply. So I had a. I was in the Air Force. I had to go through the official channels. So they told me what to do and I submitted my application along with Stu Russa and Alan Ward, Al Warden, Hank Hartsfield. We were all in the same test pilot school class and Joe Engel was out there. He applied and there was a lot of people applied and they were looking for test pilots and my age and height and everything like that.

[B]

When you say test pilot, you mean test pilot for the, the space, the space program?

[A]

No, test pilot for the Air Force.

[B]

The Air Force, yeah.

[A]

We were all at Edwards Air Force Base. The ones I'm speaking about now that we had others selected that came from the Naval Test Pilot School, which was in Patuxet, Maryland.

[B]

And then how did you. And then how did that evolve into the idea of going to the moon, working on the moon missions?

[A]

I'm not sure the moon, the moon missions were. Had been determined. That's what we were working on. And if we applied, we would have a chance to work on the Apollo program.

[B]

Was there a moment for you where you thought like I want to, I want to be one of the guys to go to the moon, or I want to, I want to be a part of that program to put man on the moon.

[A]

That was the call by NASA is to you, if you got selected as astronaut, you'd be a part of the Apollo program. So you. No guarantee you're going to fly to the, to the moon. No guarantee that it was even going to be completed. But I wanted to be an astronaut. It was the best job you could have as a test pilot.

[B]

And then what was that training like to become an astronaut and how long did it take?

[A]

Well, it depends on what you call training. We, our group there was 19 of us. We reported to Houston and first like the 1st of May 1966 and we started learning NASA ease. You know, how does NASA Work and who's got responsibility, this, that and the other. And they decided also, if we're going to go to the moon, we ought to know what kind of rocks to pick up. And so we started a big extensive training in geology. And we not only had classroom work, but we also had field trips once a month generally, and that was two or three days somewhere in the US Somewhere. And sometimes in Hawaii, sometimes in Canada, but mostly in the US we did a geology trip, got into the field and learned how to pick up the right kind of rocks.

[B]

And what were you. What was going through your mind when, I mean, you're a young guy and you're. This is 66, three years before Apollo 11, you're trained to become an astronaut, learning about geology. Like, what. What was going through your mind at that point? Like, what was your. Like, were you optimistic that this was going to happen? Were you, were you skeptical? Were you fearful?

[A]

I was optimistic that Apollo was going to happen. I wasn't so optimistic that I'd get a chance to go. We were the junior guys.

[D]

And.

[A]

And so it turned out that some of the senior guys left, John Glenn, Wally schirra, after Apollo 7 retired. And so a lot of the older guys started retiring. So we sort of bubbled up into the mix. And Deke Slayton, who was the. And Alan Shepard, who were the two top astronauts, they started picking people to train. And, and so we, they were trying to balance the crew and give us younger guys some experience. So most of the crews that were selected had a senior guy that had been, that had flown in space. He was commander. And then a lot of the crews had two rookies that came from our group mostly.

[B]

And how did you come to meet Von Braun?

[A]

One of my first jobs as a. As an astronaut was to monitor the development of the Saturn 5. Stu Russa, myself. And so the best way to do that was to go up and meet Brian Vaughan and sit in on his staff meetings to see how the Saturn 5 was progressing. And was this thing going to really fly? And so every month we'd go up and sit in on a staff meeting and he became a. I wouldn't say a friend, but he recognized us every time we walked in and says, welcome, Charlie. Welcome, Stu. And we'd sit in and listen to his briefings on his staff meeting. And then we'd go back and report to the astronaut office on Monday morning. Every Monday morning we'd have a couple hour meeting and what was going on in the program. And Stu and I'd give a briefing Every time we got back.

[B]

So you would explain to the other astronauts what the progress was on the Saturn 5 rocket?

[A]

That's correct.

[B]

Depending on like what. Did you have any like personal conversations with von Braun about this or, or.

[A]

No, mostly just he recognized us and he accepted us and I can't say he became a real good friend but he certainly knew who we were and we resp. I respected and they were doing a good job. Turned out the Saturn 5 never had a failure. Not one.

[B]

That's pretty astonishing.

[A]

And all of the flights of Poland they lost one engine and I think it was on Apollo 13 but one engine goes out, you can still make it in orbit.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

In fact it was such a good machine. Stu Rusa and I went to Ames Research center and they wrote a program. Can astronauts literally fly the Saturn 5 into space manually? And we proved we could not very efficiently but we could get it into orbit.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

But they decided not to use that program and so it never was implemented. But we spent a month or so out at Ames proving that you could fly the Saturn V in into orbit.

[B]

What made the Saturn 5 so superior even to rockets that we have today? I mean obviously it wasn't reusable but.

[A]

I think it was just good technology and a simple, you know, there wasn't anything complicated about the Saturn V. The engines were huge and they were test fired and it was nitrogen and no, not nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen. I don't remember what the fuel was but anyway they were very reliable engines. They're huge. £1.5 million thrust each on the first stage. And so that was a seven and a half million pounds of thrust lifting. Six and a half million pounds and you were up on the top. And the only thing I remember of a liftoff was the vibration. You didn't have any noise from the engines that was all going sideways but the thing shook. It was like being on a 360 long limber fishing pole and you're up at the top and somebody shaking it down here which was the engines and was vibrating from side to side. Not a pogo but a vibrate from.

[B]

Side like swaying back and forth.

[A]

4. Yeah really high. High frequency though and amplitude was maybe that.

[B]

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[A]

I was at Capcom. I'd done the same thing on Apollo 10 and where they took the lunar module to the moon but weren't going to land. And so that had gone well and Neil asked me to why don't you be Capcom for us? I mean you got the experience.

[B]

Oh, he asked you.

[A]

Yeah, and because I wasn't on the, on the crew of any way involved but he said would you do that? And I said sure, it'd be great honor. And so we practice for two months and simulations the crews in the simulator, we're in Mission control and we practice four or five hours a day generally. And for the landing part.

[B]

So what specifically do you do as the Topcom guy?

[A]

You are the voice of mission control. You're the only person that can actually talk to the crew. The crew's voice loop is heard in mission Control in everybody's headset. But the only person that can respond is Capcom and was an astronaut. And you really told them what was. You responded to their calls and you responded to what the mission control team with telling you to tell them to keep them in the loop. Like we Started down and we had communication problems. And if I recall the, the, the. It was a 30 second rule. If you lost COM communications for 30 seconds, it wasn't abort. So we reoriented, changed attitude, changed antennas and, and then the computer was overloading and that really got everybody's attention. And so, but Steve Bales and Jack Garman in the back room said we're go flight. They knew what the computer was doing and it was overloading because it had 75 milliseconds of compute. And then it flipped back to the, to the job number one. And it was always flying the spacecraft, but it was dropping off these insignificant jobs. And so we were go. And then we had a trajectory problem and Neil couldn't. We had him targeted into the wrong place. We didn't really understand lunar gravity then and with the mascons and all of that stuff. So we, he had to level off and fly horizontally, I don't know, four or five miles. And I used up all the reserve fuel and so now we're minimum fuel. And we called.

[B]

They teach they have two separate fuel reserves, one for the descent and one for the ascent when they leave the moon.

[A]

Ascent engine is never, you was never used on ascent. I mean descent.

[B]

Okay, you, you never would do that.

[A]

Well, you'd have to stage the vehicle to get the SN engine light. It wouldn't light unless you staged and separated. So Anyway, we called 60 seconds. He had 60 seconds to land. And then I, I remember 30 seconds. I called 30 seconds. And he was, they were close, but not on the ground. And we were, according to my watch, we were 15 seconds or so before calling an abort when Buzz Aldrin said, contact engine stop, they're on the moon. Wow. Tension was through the roof at mission control.

[B]

What, what was that like for you when they landed on the moon and you were sitting in the.

[A]

It's a great sigh of relief, everybody. You know, it's, it was tense, you can imagine and are we going to make it? Are we going to make it? I'm convinced now that had I called abort time up, you know, and call an abort, which was based on the fuel reserve in a decent engine, Neil would have said, say again, Houston, he's not going to abort. He's going to land at, at 20ft off the moon and he's minimum fuel. And we hit that point, he's not going to abort. He had the final say, so he's going to land now.

[B]

Were you, were you there on the communication with them? The Moment they landed?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And how long were you there? Were you there the whole time, even when they were coming back?

[A]

No. Okay, that was another. We had, I think four. Four flight teams working Apollo 11 and I was on Gene Krantz's team and we had responsibility for landing. And, and then we stayed around for another hour or so while they safe the spacecraft and got everything.

[B]

And how long was it until once he got back to Earth? Do you remember your first conversation with him? How long, how long was it before you talked to him?

[A]

Well, they had to go into quarantine, and because of moon bugs, you know, we weren't sure about whether we're going to bring back something that's going to wipe out the whole civil Civilization. Civilization. So they went into quarantine and we could talk to them through the, the window and. But there were no moon bugs and everything was fine. And so they were, I think, three weeks or something like that. And then it got out and we started having debriefings, but we were debriefing during the time they were in quarantine.

[B]

And what was that, like, what was his demeanor? Well, I mean, what was his attitude? What was he saying? Anything ring a bell to you, like, or does anything really, like, stick out for you as far as, like, kind of conversations you had with him afterwards?

[A]

Neil Armstrong was Mr. Coolstone. Yeah, he wasn't. He was unflappable. And it, you know, we landed and he was following the rules, but we had, we hit minimum fuel on the descent because he had. We had him targeted into the wrong way. And he had to fly horizontally about four or five miles and then set down and find a place to land. And I remember calling Apollo 11. 30 seconds. I mean, you see, at 30 seconds to land on the moon and the next call was going to be abort.

[C]

Right, right.

[B]

Yep, we just talked about that. Yeah. So, okay, let's fast forward to your, to your mission, Apollo 16. Can you describe, like, what was it like being sitting in the tip of that rocket before it launched off to the moon?

[A]

Keep counting, keep counting. I'm ready to go.

[B]

You were ready to go?

[A]

Yeah, two years. And we trained.

[B]

Was there any. Was there no fear? Like, you had children and a wife back home and. No fear, no fear at all.

[A]

Just. We had. Because we had so many. We had a escape rocket. We had practiced aborts, and not. If the thing blew up on the pad, you were still able to get off with the, with the Apollo launch vehicle escape system.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And so we had practiced all of that stuff. And we were just ready to go. And so we were laying there ready to keep counting, keep counting, keep counting.

[B]

And, and can you walk me through what that was like for you? Like that. For that liftoff and then getting into orbit and then. And then doing the. I want to say, I've been waiting to say this word for. For weeks. The trans Lunar injection sounds so cool. Bart's over there, parts over there, Steam.

[C]

Just waiting for my turn.

[A]

You'll get me.

[B]

You'll get it.

[C]

I'm entertained.

[B]

Yeah, you'll get it. Barb. This is. We. I think it's really important this.

[A]

So we were laying there and we're listening to the count and when the engine started, they were moving down there to maintain a trajectory. And that vibration translated up and you. 360ft above it and it shook from side to side. But we're on our way. You feel the G's lift off and mission control. So you go. And we were go. And. And it was really exciting to. To feel the acceleration of this big vehicle and the vibration from side to side. And we didn't have any pogo, but it was a vibration from side to side. And so we're on our way and just riding it out. And it was really, I mean, one of the best rides I've ever had.

[B]

How long did it take to get to the moon?

[A]

Get to the. Get into orbit was 12 minutes or so, I think. And that was. You ended up on the third stage, which was the rocket that pushed you out of Earth orbit and onto the trajectory to the moon. And that happened. I don't know about rev and a half later we were over Australia and. And we ignited the third stage automatically and pushed us out of orbit into a certain CIS lunar orbit that took us to the moon. And then we got there, we had to slow down to get into orbit. We use the service module engine for that.

[B]

And what was your. Did you have a specific task on that trip to the moon? Were you. Were you in charge of monitoring anything in particular or communication or.

[A]

Well, it would. I was the lunar module pilot, which was on the right side. And as you look at the instrument panel, I was on the right side. Mattingly was sent a center seat and John. And John Young was the commander on the left seat. So if we had emergencies, we all had things to do. We practiced, you know, aborts and we practiced radio out and every kind of thing. Fuel cell failures. We just practiced and practiced and practiced. So we were ready to go. And, and towards that. Our flight was Sort of one of the most nominal flights that we had to get into orbit on the Saturn 5. It was a very reliable rocket.

[B]

Explain what it was like actually landing on the moon.

[A]

Well, it was a very dynamic situation. We pitched over at 7,000ft and that's the first time you saw the lunar surface where you're going to land. And I.

[B]

7,000Ft, yeah.

[A]

And I looked out and looked to the right to see if I could see the North Ray crater up there. And we were right on target. And John began to maneuver the spacecraft manually to. He picked out a landing spot. He had on his windshields, he had ladders and if you land it lined it up like at 35 that meant. And the computer would tell you 35, that's where you're going to land if you don't do anything. And so we. He redesignated a couple of times and we were going into some craters and he maneuvered and it. And I was just talking him down. I was not looking out the window much because it was so busy, you.

[B]

Know, you were reading instruments or something.

[A]

We were, we had a profile that said at 500ft down at 22 and no lateral velocity or whatever. And so I was reading that profile out to him and.

[B]

Oh, I see.

[A]

Say. And. And he was flying it manual by this time. He's flying it manually and he's controlling the whole thing. Descent, right, left, forward, back. And we had a profile and we were right on the profile. So when we hit the ground, there was a probe underneath. The landing gear said contact. And when that light came on, you shut the engine down and. And we were coming down like 2, 3ft per second, I think, if I remember right. And when the light came on, I said contact. And he shut it down and we dropped in on the moon. Wow. Almost dead level. So we were excited, to say the.

[B]

Least I could imagine.

[A]

We were late landing. We had a problem in. In the command module before we started down and. And it almost caused an abort of the whole mission. But mission control came to the rescue and figured it out. And so we, we continued our mission, but we were late landing.

[B]

I use nicotine for focus and I usually keep one of those little cans around just to help me stay focused and energized during the day. They're fine, but they dry out your mouth. They're probably not that great for your gums and they taste very chemically. And that's why I've started to use Zippix toothpicks lately. These little things are a game changer. This is the cleanest, most low key way for me to get my nicotine without vape, without smoke and without a nicotine pouch shoved in my gums. It's just a toothpick, but with a kick. And you can use them literally anywhere. Flights, restaurants, sporting events, basically all the places where someone would yell at you or judge you for vaping, smoking or throwing an upper decky in. I think Zipix actually tastes better too. They've got six long lasting flavors all made right here in the USA. And 100 natural nicotine, not that synthetic stuff. I've been keeping a few of these in my backpack lately and I've noticed I've been using them a lot more than the pouches because they taste better and I think they're more convenient. And if nicotine isn't your thing, they make caffeine and B12 toothpicks. For a smooth energy boost. Ditch the pouches, cigarettes and vapes and try Zippix Toothpicks only sold online@zippix toothpicks.com and you can get 10 off your first order by using the code Danny at checkout. Must be 21 or older to order. Warning, nicotine is an addictive chemical. Go to zippix toothpicks.com and use the code D A N N Y at checkout for 10 off your first order. Zip more and smoke less with Zipix toothpicks. So what was your mission? What was the, what was the Objective of Apollo 6?

[A]

Explore the Lunar highlands, the mountains of the moon. The geology was supposed to be different than the Maury where Neil landed. And it was. We had different rocks, different kind of compositions and we had a car that we unloaded and drove it. First day we drove west for a mile and a half and sampled Plum Crater. And the next day we drove north, south up Stone Mountain and, and that was about a eight or nine mile round trip. And then the last day we had, we headed north. Yeah, north to, to what was called, oh, I can't remember the name of the crater now. It was a big crater. North Ray Crater. North Ray Crater was.

[B]

What the. Do you remember the moment you took your first step onto the moon?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What, what was, what did that feel like?

[A]

I'm on the moon. On the moon. It's just exciting.

[B]

Just, just elated with excitement.

[A]

Yeah, we, we were delayed getting out because we were late landing due to the problem we had in the other spacecraft.

[B]

How old were you again when you first landed on the, when you, when you walked on the moon?

[A]

36.

[B]

You were 36.

[A]

Years old, one of the youngest guys.

[B]

I can't. I would imagine it would be overwhelming. The amount of emotions would be.

[A]

It was pretty exciting. And we were, you know, just bounding with enthusiasm and what. We were late landing, so we did. We were supposed to. The original plan called us to land and suit up and go outside, but mission control canceled that. Said you guys gonna be up too late, you might make a mistake, or too long, not wake up too, too late, but you're going to be awake for 20 something hours if we do the C feed.

[B]

So they made you guys go to sleep?

[A]

Yeah, took off our suits and went to sleep.

[B]

What were you. Is there anything that sort of like blew. Blew your previously held conceptions of the moon out of the water when you got there? Like when you actually walked out and stepped on the moon, Was it exactly what you expected it to be? Or what about that experience really stood out to you?

[A]

Well, we were the fifth landing, so we had. We'd heard debrief four, four previous crews. Tell us, what was it like? Okay, so we, we had a lot of familiarity with it and we knew we had a flight plan, we knew what we were going to do. And so we just got to work. And it was really exciting being there. And I'm on the moon. I'm on the moon. You, you're thinking those things privately. You're not broadcasting it out. But we.

[B]

Like, what did it feel like to walk on, to walk on the moon? Do you remember, like, what we had? I'm talking about like, like, what did the ground feel like? What?

[A]

You don't have any feel. You got a moon boot on and you got a suit boot on.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you, you just feel the pressure and it. Right. It was easy to lose your balance, if you will, at 16 gravity.

[B]

And did you immediately see the Earth?

[A]

No, it was right overhead. So when you look up in Apollo, you're looking at the top of your helmet. So we never saw the Earth? Well, yeah, you could hold on to the spacecraft and lean back and there it was. It's a half Earth up up in the sky. And you could. We had tv so we had an antenna that we. Like a periscope. And we could point that at the Earth. And when we got it pointed at the Earth, we flipped on a TV and we had TV that we sat down and.

[B]

How big? Like you were standing on the edge of a crater. How big was that crater?

[A]

The biggest one we visited was North Ray Crater was about. I'm, I've been a long time ago. So I'm. I'll guess it may be 300, 300ft wide and maybe a couple hundred feet deep. And that was our last eva. That was our third eva. The. The lunar rover that we had was. We were the. Let's see. Second. Yeah, second with the lunar rover, and it revolutionized lunar exploration because you proud of that. Everybody was walking. You know, it's pretty tough walking up there and collecting rocks. So riding a rover was really revolutionary.

[B]

How long were you guys outside the.

[A]

Longest was, if I remember right. It was over eight hours.

[B]

You were walking around on your feet for eight hours?

[A]

Well, no, we were riding the car.

[B]

Sit in the car. Okay.

[A]

And then ride the place. And we jump out. And we'd had a. We had a flight plan. Do this, do this, find this rock, do that. And so we were collecting samples, we were drilling holes, we were digging, shoveling trenches and everything like that.

[B]

Was there anything that you did that was a part of your. A part of the job that you had to do that surprised you? Like, in any of your digs or any of your findings, did you see anything that was, like, shocking or, like, unexpected?

[A]

I don't think in the end, physical work was anything different, but the experience of being on the moon and the 16 gravity it had, you had to learn how to walk, get your center of gravity over your feet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you couldn't straighten up. I tried straightening up, jumping one time and straightened up, and I fell over backwards, which was really scary. But that was the end of our stay.

[B]

And do you. Do you remember if you could see stars?

[A]

You can't.

[B]

You can't see any stars.

[A]

Not in the daylight, you can't.

[B]

And you guys were in the daylight the entire mission, right?

[A]

No, only on the moon, we were.

[B]

That's what I mean. When you asked, like, the entire entirety of your time spent on the moon was in the daylight. Because days there are, like, 14 days long here on Earth, right?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So what happened when you guys had to come home? What was that like?

[A]

Well, we were it. We were approaching a time, and we tried to talk mission control into letting us stay another two hours, but. Or whatever it was, and they said, get inside, guys. It's time to come home. So we got inside and. And we got ready to lift off, but the first thing we had to do was pitch out all the backpacks. So we pressurized open the depressurized, opened the door, threw out the backpacks, two bags of trash, and.

[B]

Oh, no. You littered on the moon.

[A]

Yeah, we. Big litter yeah.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

Sorry about that. But we were.

[B]

How dare you?

[A]

Yeah, and then. Then we lifted off and rendezvous and.

[B]

And when you got back to Earth, you had to go through the same process that Neil went through the.

[A]

No, we did not have quarantine.

[B]

You didn't. You did not have quarantine?

[A]

No, not on the return.

[B]

What did you have to go through on the return? Was there any specific protocol you had to follow? And.

[A]

Well, I don't remember exactly, but we. We had physicals and, you know, blood and stuff. Blood work and stuff like that.

[B]

There any, like. Were there any psychological evaluations or anything like that? Or, like, talking to somebody that. About your experience?

[A]

Oh, we had debriefings, but everybody. Geologists, other astronauts, mission control. We talked to everybody when we got back. Management.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, Bart, so your basic story was when you were a kid, you're obsessed with the moon missions. You. You. You were. Said you were asleep when they first landed on the moon, but you were a huge fan of NASA and a big believer in the moon landing. And at one point, something happened, and you did a 180 out of. Out of everything. And I know you cover a lot of ground with your theories and in your documentaries. You. You do a very thorough job laying out every single point. But like to you, what is the. What are, like, the top two or three reasons that you believe that the moon landing was a hoax?

[C]

Well, we can get into that, and I have evidence to show on all of those. The first, we have an eyewitness who saw them film Apollo 11 at Cannon Air Force Base. He confessed to it as he was dying, and he also confessed to a homicide.

[B]

This is why the headphones help, because you.

[D]

You get.

[B]

Sometimes you're not talking into the microphone. Well, just make sure you keep it like this far away from your mouth.

[C]

When you're talking this far. Okay.

[B]

Get it nice and close.

[C]

So we have an eyewitness and who was fearing the judgment of God as he was dying, and he confessed to a homicide. And if you want, you can bring up that image. It's image D1. This gentleman's name is Cyrus Eugene Akers. He was the chief of security at Canon Air Force Base, which is the special operations or intelligence headquarters for the Air Force. And as he was dying in the presence of his son. There's a picture of him, General, if you want to look at it.

[B]

Okay. This is Cyrus Eugene Akers.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

How did you discover this guy?

[C]

His son contacted me.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Based after his father confessed. And the first thing he confessed to was a homicide, that he felt like he needed to confess that he had murdered somebody in the past. And his son found out that he murdered a fellow employee at Cannon Air Force Base. And the military police came in and investigated the homicide. And when they asked him, why did you kill him? He said it was to cover up the moon landing fraud, which they both had eyewitnessed. And he felt that his friend, who thought it was morally wrong, was going to go public with it, and so he murdered him to keep it a secret. If you go to D2, we can watch a three minute video of the sun and see his testimony about it.

[B]

Okay, so this is a. This is a deathbed confession that the son told you about.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

And there was a police investigation into.

[C]

It was a military police.

[B]

Military police, Right. Okay. Is there any hard evidence of this investigation and what was the outcome of it?

[C]

Well, after his father's confession, which was videotaped.

[B]

Oh, it was on video.

[C]

That's correct. When they went out one day, their house burned down. They believe it was set intentionally by somebody who knew about the confession. After all, they had told the Air Force military police that the moon landing was fake. They reported that to their superiors. They found out there was a videotape of the confession, and so they burned their house down. And in fact, the.

[B]

Who burned their house down?

[C]

Whoever it was arson, I presume, the CIA or whoever.

[B]

And how many. How long after this confession was the house burned down?

[C]

Within, I think a couple of weeks. Because they had video of the confession and they had some documentation. In fact, the gentleman's Air Force file has been completely deleted. We used a Freedom of Information act request. They said there's no Cyrus Eugene Akers. There's never was in the Air Force. And yet I went to the military graveyard, which isn't too far from here, about 50 miles from here. And there he is. His tombstone. United States Air Force.

[D]

From here?

[C]

Yeah, it's about 50 miles from here.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And he's in the military cemetery. And it says United States Air Force, Cyrus Eugene Acres. And that he served in Vietnam and Korea and his son lived right across from the base. He said he was chief of security there. And so if you play video D2, we can have a video of the sun and put it in his own words.

[D]

President Johnson in 1968. Okay. In Cannon Air Force Base in 1968. He said by that time, by the time he got there, that there was already two large hangars that were connected. There was hundreds of dump trucks came in and dumped sand and stone and cement powder was powdered over the top of all that to make it look like a lunar landscape. They had men that fashioned it into a lunar landscape. He said, okay, I've never known my dad to lie. So this all took me by surprise, you know, what's that all about? So anyway, he said that in front of the the airplane hangars was pole framing with large canvas tents that was concealing the inside of the staging area. Inside the staging area on flatbed trucks was on created the lunar lander that was assembled, reassembled back inside the hangars. All of the walls were painted flat black in the ceilings as well. He was sworn to secrecy by the NSA and they would put him in prison for breaking that oath. When dad saw the, the moon landing on tv, he cried. He said he knew that what he had witnessed on TV was exactly what they recorded in that hangar. There was no reason for them to go flying around and everything. They had detailed high definition photos of the landing area. There was no reason for them to go flying around to a different landing area that almost exhausted their fuel. Except for drama because everything had gone so smoothly. Nothing, you know, so it had to be something. Anyway, dad was one of three guards that guarded the, the inside of the front entrance. There was a list of 15 people who could enter. No one else was allowed by order of President Johnson. And here is that list and I gave it to Bart Cyberl as well. And he checked out a lot of these names and he says he can verify a lot of these people and what they do. And I come across the couple myself anyway. President Johnson, Neil Armstrong, Edwin Alden, Werner Von Braun, Robert Emmenegger, Gene Krantz, James Webb, Joe Kerwin, Dr. Thomas Payne, Glenn Looney, Dr. For Christopher Kraft, Dr. James Van Allen, General Trudeau. Trudeau, Lt. Col. Donald Simon and Grant Norway. My dad, he raised me by the book. I know he didn't lie to me. And as I started seeing more and more of what he was telling me was true, I realized my dad wasn't lying.

[B]

All right, so this is the, this, you would say this is the top piece of evidence that you.

[C]

No, it's, it's the most compelling to people because we have a testimony of it now if I may ask.

[B]

It is a testimony, but it's not actual hardcore.

[C]

I understand. We've got three and a half hours. He's got 40 minutes ahead of Head Start on me.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So I can present my evidence and I have a couple of questions. If I climbed Mount Everest and was known for climbing Mount Everest and got an award or a medal and everyone. I was hired at companies as their CEO for having climbed Mount Everest. And somebody came along and started saying, you didn't do it.

[A]

You.

[C]

It was filmed in a TV studio. I certainly wouldn't fly and make an airport change and stay overnight in a hotel and go to podcast to podcast to defend that I had climbed Mount Everest. I wouldn't waste my time. So why are you here?

[A]

Me?

[C]

Yeah. If you walked on the moon and it's so obvious that you walked on the moon, I, I wouldn't fly anywhere to debate somebody whether or not I walked on Mount Everest if I did. So why are you here?

[A]

I'm here to tell my story. He asked me to come and share my story. Did I walk on the moon? And I did walk on the moon. The evidence overwhelming that we landed on the moon. And, and so I've told my story for the last 50 something years almost, or whatever it is we landed in 72. So I have been asked to share my experience by reputable people. And so I do that. And I am not lying. I landed on the moon and the evidence is overwhelming.

[C]

Well, actually the opposite is true. People can say anything. The evidence is not overwhelming.

[A]

What is evidence?

[B]

Hold on to that. Let's lay out some more of your evidence.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Well, you, you retired a general, right? Okay. What was your security clearance?

[A]

Top secret.

[C]

Okay. So when you, when you have a top secret, you're not allowed to tell your wife or your children, right?

[A]

What?

[C]

Whatever the secrets are, whatever secrets you have as a top secret clearance, if you told your wife or your children, you would be violating your oath, is that right?

[A]

In the military, that's true. But NASA did not have us swear an oath that we are lying or not lying.

[C]

I understand, but the point is you have top secret clearance. And telling your wife or your children would be violating that oath. So your oath to the corrupt United States federal government includes lying to your wife and to your children. Now, there are a hundred thousand trials every year in America. 90% of the people are guilty. And yet 100,000 people raise their hand and swear that they're telling the truth. So does every Nazi war criminal. They look like benevolent grandfathers, and yet they go smiling through life and denying to the very end that they committed these crimes, which they did. Now, if you're willing to lie to your wife and to your children, why should we believe you?

[A]

Believe me about what?

[C]

Well, you just said you're willing to lie to your wife and children to Keep your oath to the corrupt federal government. So if you're willing to lie.

[A]

No, I'm not lying to them. I'm lying. I'm not lying to anybody. I tell another truth. I landed on the moon.

[B]

Just because somebody has. I don't think it's fair to say, just because he has a top secret clearance and he's under an oath to protect government secrets, that doesn't mean that he is inherently a liar.

[C]

I understand that. And he also shows that he is willing to lie to his wife and children. And if he's willing to do that, he's willing to lie to the rest of the world. So that's my point. No. No Nazi war criminal has ever come forward and turned himself in. And when arrested and interrogated, not a single one confessed even though they were guilty. I'm just mentioning that. So either the gentleman we saw is lying or you're lying. One of the two. So would a general with top secret clearance be more likely to lie? Or were a sergeant on his deathbed who confessed to a homicide be more willing to tell the truth?

[B]

I think there's crazy people out there. There's lots of crazy lunatics out there who are willing to, who will say anything and make up stories. And the same thing is true. That.

[C]

And one of them is sitting across from me.

[B]

Well, I don't think so. I don't necessarily think that. I think that anybody who is in a high level military position that has to protect government secrets is going to protect their oath. It doesn't mean they're a liar. That means that they're protecting national secrets, something they swore to do and devoted their career to. And if they divulge those secrets, they will go to prison for it. And there's been many cases where people have done that, have been sent to prison by the federal government for blowing the whistle on things and following whistleblower protocol. So I don't think we're going to get anywhere by. By calling people liars, first of all.

[C]

Second of all, I'm not. I'm not. What I'm saying is either the gentleman we saw who was lying as he's dying, or you're lying. 1. Only one of them is true. Right. Either that guy's lying while he was dying, confessing to a homicide.

[B]

What's your point?

[C]

Well, I'm just bringing that to the audience's attention.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Right.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Now, I had a little side note. Who do you think killed jfk?

[A]

I have no clue.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I, I believe.

[C]

Well, I know what this, what's your personal opinion?

[A]

I don't. My personal opinion is a. It. I don't remember Oswald or whatever his name is. I don't remember the name Lee Harvey Oswald. Lee Harvey.

[B]

The government's position was that he acted alone and he was the sole shooter for of JFK.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's what you believe. Yeah. Well, 75% of Americans disagree. The gentleman's relatives disagree. Bobby Kennedy Jr. Says he's 100% certain that he was murdered by the CIA because he was going to abolish them. And then a few Years later, Robert McNamara, before he died, he was Defense Secretary during the Vietnam War. He confessed that the whole reason that the war was started, which 90% of the public was against, was they fabricated an attack by the North Vietnamese on an American ship in the Gulf of Tonkin. Even Wikipedia says it was falsified. Now, Congress passed a law called the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which led to the deaths of 3 million people, including 58,220 of their own citizens. So if they're willing to kill their own president, willing to kill 58,220 of their own citizens, I don't think they're going to have a problem faking a video image of the moon. In fact, NASA has never kept a schedule in its entire existence, except the most complicated one of all time. Somehow they were ahead of schedule. You see that? So here's some names on here and I wondered if you knew those names. He was very specific. He kept this list as a souvenir. So do you, you know who President Johnson is? You know Neil Armstrong, Edwin Aldrin, Werner Von Braun? Who's Robert Egger?

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

Are you familiar with Cannon Air Force Base?

[A]

Not really. I've been to Cannon, landed there and refueled, but I've never been stationed there.

[C]

So what does Special Ops mean in the Air Force.

[A]

Is just what you're saying. Special Ops.

[C]

Top secret stuff?

[A]

Generally, yeah.

[C]

Okay. What about Joseph Kerwin?

[A]

Joe Kern was an astronaut. Doctor, medical doctor. That's the old car. When I know.

[C]

What about Thomas Paine?

[A]

Thomas Paine was head of NASA.

[C]

Okay. Christopher Kraft.

[A]

He was head of Johnson Space center, but he's also head of Mission Control.

[C]

What about Arthur Trudeau?

[A]

I don't know him. I don't remember him.

[C]

He's General of Army Intelligence. What about Donald Simon?

[A]

I don't remember him.

[C]

Grant Nori?

[A]

Who?

[C]

Yeah, those people we couldn't track down.

[B]

What was the last one you said? Grant Nori?

[C]

Yeah. Oh, he's either NSA or CIA, we couldn't track him down.

[B]

So I guess the point here is that, and I can attest to this.

[A]

Oh, wait a minute, let me. I've lost my truck, right?

[B]

Let me, let me sum it, Let me sum it up for you. The, the, one of the main reasons for me, and I think I'm speaking for a lot of other folks when I say this is that when it comes to the Apollo missions, the Apollo missions happened at, in the middle of the Cold War, during the, the peak of government distrust. That's when we know, according to all the declassified documents by the CIA and the FBI, is that the, the government was lying and deceiving the public more than ever. I mean, I don't know how much they're doing now, but as far as all the documents that we have, that was the peak. That was when the, the President of the United States was murdered. That's when we did. The Gulf of Tonkin got into the Vietnam War. The government started doing a secret mind control program with using LSD and other drugs and that There was the Manson family murders and all of this stuff, right? So when people look at this stuff and they're, they're, they're learning the history of the Cold War and they see that the apostle, the most astonishing feat of mankind ever happened right in the middle of all of that stuff, people just, I think they get taken back by it like. So the government was lying about all this other stuff, but the one thing they didn't lie about was the most amazing feat of mankind. Does that make sense to you? Does that sort of logic, does that make sense why people would question that question Apollo? Yes, Just based on all of the other strategic deception that was happening within the government, like MK Ultra mind control experiments that were going on. The Vietnam War, the assassination of President Kennedy, the Gulf of Tonkin, all of that stuff. It was right in the middle of all of that, all of that. The Bay of Pigs, right there was Operation Northwoods that got declassified, where the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to fly a airplane with nobody in it as a drone and blow it up as.

[C]

A pretext to invade Cuba, killing Americans. They were willing to kill Americans to fake an attack. This is on Cuba.

[B]

This is real decline stuff that, that's come out in the federal government with the Warren Commission and all of this stuff.

[C]

So the same people who would later approve the Apollo program.

[B]

So that's.

[A]

And we never landed on the moon?

[B]

Well, no, what, what the question is.

[C]

You didn't know that before you got here?

[A]

No.

[B]

Charlie. Charlie.

[C]

Really good actor.

[A]

I really didn't know that.

[C]

Did you ever win the Academy Award for Best Actor?

[A]

No. I really know that you believe that we lied on six missions that landed on the moon.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com podcast terms apply. Charlie, does it make sense to you?

[C]

That's how arrogant the federal government is. Now, if I may have my 40 minutes to answer your question.

[B]

Hold on one second. I want to make sure this lands with him. Does it make sense why people would question that based on all of the other and lying that was going on that we know was actually all the other stuff that we know for a fact was deception?

[C]

No.

[A]

To me, Apollo was real to you.

[B]

But I'm saying no.

[A]

Wait a minute. In the United states, there were 400,000 people working on Apollo.

[C]

Well, let me just a minute.

[A]

Let me Finish.

[C]

You had 40 minutes already. I've only had 10.

[A]

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[C]

Okay. That's one of the, you know, must be real because of 400,000. And of course, every year that number increases. There are 400,000 tellers at bank of America. But do you really think what the teller knows and what the CEO knows about corruption in the bank are identical? I interviewed Eugene Krantz. He told me that someone in the command center at the console can tell no difference whatsoever between a simulation and an actual flight. Do we really think the CIA is so stupid to tell the guy making the glove or the door or the boot, hey, we're really not going to the moon? Be sure not to tell anybody. And that's why they had you astronauts at the command center to cover the mistakes about faking it once the rocket went up. There's only three eyewitnesses to the mission and no independent press coverage. So if you add people who delivered food and made paper clips and did the printing and the contractors and all their secretaries and food vendors, you could probably pad 400,000. But the atomic bomb involved 129,500 people, and only eight people knew what they were building. So if someone in the command center cannot tell the difference between a real flight and a simulated flight, how can the public watching it from their living room or people years later? So that argument is flat. It doesn't go anywhere. And neither does the argument that the Russians would have spilled the beans. Because I know somebody who works in the command center of the Chinese Space Agency. He said, everybody there knows that the moon missions are fake and they're blackmailing NASA because Congress passed a law forbidding space technology to be sold to China and they're receiving it anyway by blackmail. If I had a picture of a world leader with a prostitute, I could upload it to the Internet and now it's worth nothing. Or I could blackmail them year after year after year, and that's what the Soviet Union is doing. Putin knows. He wasn't surprised to find out that the moon missions are fake and neither is China. So that doesn't fly either. We're being blackmailed, which is another reason for the truth to come out. Now, I also interviewed Betty Grissom, the widow of the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon, who was a whistleblower at NASA to such a degree that he received Secret Service protection the weeks up to his death. I interviewed her for four hours. I interviewed her son for three hours, who's a 747 pilot. They say with 100% certainty that the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon was murdered by the CIA. And if you go to D3, it's a short clip, you can see Scott Grissom say that out of his own mouth. So why is the CIA killing Apollo astronauts who are whistleblowers? What a coincidence, right? Go ahead and play that clip. It's D3. I think it was intentionally sabotaged by someone. It's been a question in my mind, what was found in the accident investigation.

[A]

And how was that handle?

[C]

Was the CIA involved or, you know, whoever. But it was done intentionally.

[B]

So you know the story of. You know the story of. I'm sure he. You know the story of the. Gus. Gus Grissom was Apollo 1, right?

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And according to his son and widow, he was murdered by the CIA. She told me that on January 26, 1967, he telephoned her from NASA and said, hon, for some strange reason, the CIA is all over the launch pad today. I've never seen them here before. For some reason, they showed up today.

[B]

Did you ever see this?

[C]

Very next day, he's dead by a, quote, accident. One of his last words were, if we can't talk between two Buildings, how are we going to go to the moon? They couldn't get a wired intercom to work between two buildings. And Neil Armstrong supposed to pick up the first moon rock. He rehearsed it six weeks beforehand. And the stick to pick up the rock falls apart. And the lunar lander crashed weeks beforehand. If they can't get a stick with a bag on the end of it to stay together, if they can't get an intercom to work between two buildings, how are they going to go to the moon? The Soviets launched the first satellite, the first animal, the first man, the first woman, the first spacewalk, the first crew of three, the first of two spacecrafts altogether. They spent five time man hours in space, and they never went to the moon. China, the most industrialized nation on earth, says with 50 years better technology, it's going to take at least 15 years to go to the moon. And yet somehow they did it in eight years with 1960s technology. Now, if you play Clip 4, this is when my film Astronauts Gone Wild. The link will be in the description of your video to Sibrel.com we interviewed Ed Mitchell and showed him the footage, which is one of the proofs that we'll look at footage we uncovered that says do not show to the public at the beginning of the reel. And they're faking being halfway to the moon, they can't leave Earth orbit. And when he was shown that he turned beet red, he started cursing. He literally kicked me from behind. And in the commotion, we left a wireless microphone on him. And in the commotion, my cameraman forgot to hit stop record. And you can play back that clip, it's about five seconds long. They're talking about calling the CIA to have me killed.

[B]

See it?

[A]

Who killed him?

[E]

Want to call the CIA, have them whacked.

[C]

Now, my source, the son of Cyrus Eugene Akers, after he spoke to me, he went out and he had a security system with a password and everything that was hacked. And his house was broken into and everything about his dad was taken. And then a couple of days later, this is about three and a half years ago, the CIA shows up and threatens to kill him and his family if he ever talks to me again. So the dead astronaut's son says the CIA is involved and he got whistleblower protection up until the day that he died. The CIA is threatening to kill me, Right? And why would this source of mine, who was also threatened by the CIA, he received whistleblower protection by the FBI. Now, if they went to the moon, why is he receiving A few years ago, whistleblower protection for being the son of the man who confessed that the moon missions were fake. And then if you play clip 5, which is about a minute long from the documentary Conspiracy theory, Did we go to the moon? There are other deaths. There are. A total of 15% of the Apollo astronauts died in accidents within a two year period. These are the astronauts who would not cooperate with the fraud. Go ahead, play the clip.

[A]

But Grissom wasn't the only Apollo critic.

[B]

To meet with a suspicious and untimely death.

[C]

Thomas Ronald Barron was a safety inspector.

[D]

During Apollo 1's construction. After the fire, Barron testified before Congress.

[A]

That the Apollo program was in such.

[D]

Disarray that the United States would never make it to the moon.

[C]

Then exactly one week after he testified.

[B]

Barron's car was struck by a train. But the Apollo program continued.

[D]

And so did the string of untimely deaths between 1970, between 1964 and 1967, a total.

[B]

Of 10 astronauts lost their lives in freak accidents.

[C]

These deaths accounted for an astonishing 15%.

[A]

Of NASA's astronaut corps. To keep something that's alive.

[C]

Wrapped up.

[A]

And covered over, you've got to eliminate all the people that can talk about it.

[C]

So we have an eyewitness. That's proof, right?

[B]

It's who's Acres?

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Well, it's one person's testimony. There's no corroborating evidence.

[C]

So either he's telling you the truth or he's lying.

[D]

Sure.

[C]

I'll assume any guy who confesses to a murder you know is probably telling.

[B]

Well, you didn't talk to the guy himself. It was allegedly a videotape that never. You never saw.

[C]

That's right. But according to his son. According to his son, he was there at the time. And you just. Judge, is that guy of the video we just saw telling the truth or not? I think it's pretty honest, pretty obvious that he's telling the truth. So people can make their judgment that that's one. One reason. Now another.

[A]

Wait a minute. Telling the truth about what?

[C]

About his father's deathbed confession of murdering a co worker to cover up the moon landing fraud at Cannon Air Force Base. So to me, that guy's telling the truth. Which means if he is, then his father did participate in the moon landing fraud. He went into great detail about the lunar module and the fake lunar set in an airplane hangar filmed a year beforehand. President Johnson showed up. He kept a list of 15 people. Some in their memoirs say they were at Cannon Air Force Base. Canyon Air Force Base. Used to have on their website. President Johnson visited us in 1968. They removed it once I started investigating it. And the main reason for many people is that today, with five decades better rockets and technology, the farthest that NASA can send an astronaut into space is 1000th the distance to the moon. So what they're claiming is for the first time in the history of the world, technology was greater in the past than in the future. Because during the Apollo program, all the computers combined had 1,000,000th the computing power of a cell phone. So that would be like Lindbergh flying across the Atlantic 3,000 miles in 1927 and 56 or seven years later in 1982, no airplane on Earth can fly over the Atlantic. And the best one can only fly 3,000 miles. It's impossible to have better technology in the past and then in the future. How is it, I mean, is there any machine, technological machine you can think of? Cell phone, supersonic jets, microwave, anything that worked better in 1969 than its counterpart today?

[B]

What about supersonic jets?

[C]

What about them? The sound barrier is broken 200 times a day all around the world in military aircraft.

[B]

We stopped using them because they were ineffective and they weren't cost. They weren't cost effective. They were inefficient and. No, and they were way more.

[C]

Way more airplanes are breaking the sound barrier at a rate of 200 a day.

[B]

We're using the same airplanes we've been using since the 50s, and we stopped using the supersonic jets. So that would be one example.

[C]

No, they're still using jets that break the sound barrier every day.

[B]

Not commercial ones, though.

[C]

Well, they decided that people aren't going to pay 20 times more to get there twice as fast.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's my point.

[C]

Right. Well, that they could use it, but they're just not correct. Right. So. So let's listen to this clip D6 of an Apollo astronaut saying something very bizarre, that NASA intentionally destroyed all the technology. Now, you still have in the Air Force, you may know more specifically, but the B52 bomber was designed 70 years ago. It's simple, it's reliable. The same words used about the Saturn V rocket. And there's still 200 of them in service today. So why would they spend a modern equivalent of $250 billion to make this rocket that flies to the moon on the very first attempt and then destroy it? Listen to NASA saying they destroy the technology.

[A]

I'd go to the moon in a nanosecond. The problem is we don't have the technology to do that anymore. We used to, but we destroyed that technology and it's a painful process to build it back again.

[C]

So, General, why was that technology destroyed?

[B]

What do you.

[C]

Why was it destroyed?

[B]

Why. Do you, do you know why or have any idea why the technology was destroyed by NASA?

[A]

I don't know that the technology was destroyed.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

We built.

[C]

So now.

[B]

Okay, all right, you got to let him. Let him finish his thoughts.

[A]

Yeah, we flew to the moon. Okay? The program was successful. We did six landings on the moon. Okay? We used technology that was designed by Marshall Space Flight center called a Saturn 5 rocket, was the biggest rocket so far ever launched to get us to the moon. Okay? So we went to the moon, took three days to get there. We orbited the moon for a day to get everything correct. Generally it went that way for all of the six landings on the moon. And so we got to the moon, we manned the spacecraft we had in our flight, we had a delay because of the command module, had a problem with the main engine. And mission control had to verify that they could get it fixed or work around it. So anyway, we were late landing on Apollo 16 because of this problem. And we land, but we landed in the place we were supposed to land at Descartes Hollands. We spent 72 hours on the moon. We brought back 200, and if I remember, 200 pounds of moon rocks or thereabouts, maybe not that much I forgot exactly.

[B]

But the question about the technology being destroyed, you're not aware of the technology being destroyed or gone missing from all the Apollo programs.

[C]

Okay, so that NASA astronaut is lying that the technology was destroyed.

[B]

He said he wasn't aware of it.

[C]

Okay, well, according to NASA, a modern day astronaut, he said that a couple of years ago that all the Apollo technology was destroyed. I interviewed Eugene Krantz, he told me all the telemetry data was destroyed. All the original videotapes were destroyed right before. Right before they were to be transferred to hd. So.

[B]

But we still have the original film? No, that's 10 millimeter film is still in Houston at the Johnson Space Center.

[C]

Oh, that. I don't know. The videotape is what, what they intentionally.

[B]

The videotape of the projection that was given.

[C]

You're talking about the camera mounted lunar module that took one picture.

[B]

All of the film, all of the film that was shot on all the emissions on all of the missions is still in its original format in the film reels in that.

[C]

But majority of the video images is videotape. Right, and that was intentionally destroyed.

[B]

But those were just copies of the film.

[C]

Right now, these are the originals. I talked to Eugene Krantz. He said the original videotapes were accidentally recorded over and the only machine on Earth that could play it back was intentionally disassembled.

[B]

I'm confused.

[C]

Even if they're found, they couldn't be played. I'm telemetry data where the rocket really was. So back to the destroy.

[B]

One second. Can I ask a question?

[C]

Well, either this guy is lying, right? Why would a NASA astronaut lie? Has there ever been a time, and this is another proof, has there ever been a time in the history of the world that someone developed a new technology, broke the sound barrier, split the atom, and then destroyed the technology afterwards? It's never happened. It's never happened. They destroyed it to cover their tracks because I went scuba diving. And to have an hour's worth of air, it takes two tanks this big and that big around that would be 16 tanks of air you would have to have on your back on the moon. And then to allegedly get the lunar module down to 72 degrees on inside for three days against 250 degrees outside on a bank of essentially car batteries. It can't be done. That's why they destroyed all the technology. Because it could be proved later that the rocket didn't have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit. Which we have proof of as well. I have von Braun's own quote, which we'll read that says one rocket will never go to the moon without multiple fueling. And we'll show that from von Braun as well.

[B]

Can I ask a question?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What does that got to do with our discussion?

[C]

Well, he asked, what proof do we have that they didn't go to the moon? And there's a lot of proof. Okay, you didn't go to the moon.

[B]

I have about.

[A]

How about the proof that is that we did go to the moon?

[C]

Well, we already heard all of that. 400,000 people. That's been refuted. The Russians would have blabbed. That's been refuted. The moon rocks has been refuted. It's one of my clips that Neil Armstrong, chain of custody, allegedly picked up a rock, personally put it in his pocket, and then later personally gave it to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, which was immediately sealed in a container in a museum was opened up a few years ago, and it's petrified wood. It's a fake. The moon rocks are fake. And Antarctica. Von Braun went to Antarctica to pick up pounds and pounds of meteorite.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

The rocks are either duplicates of meteorites picked up on earth, made in a ceramics lab or just fake? All right, Bart, and then you had no comment. What do you have to say for yourself for. For a rock that had chain of custody from the moon to Neil Armstrong's hand to this museum ends up being a fake? NASA says no comment.

[B]

All right, you're peppering us with. With fact after fact. And. And it's just too much. We need to stick to one thing. Okay, what. What's one thing? Let's. Let's stick on one topic so we can go back and forth and we can get Charlie's opinion on it, we get your opinion on it, and I can evaluate what's going on. Let's talk about the film. Okay, so one of the biggest questions people have about this is why. Why was the. Why is all the original footage and the telemetry data gone from the Apollo missions? But I want to clarify something first. All of the footage that we have from the moon, was that shot on film? Specifically on film cameras, like 16 millimeter film.

[A]

We have. We had a 16 millimeter camera. We had Hasselblads, which took.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Photographs, and we had TV that sent back television from the loner rover to Earth.

[B]

Like a specific type of camera for television?

[A]

Yeah, it was a television camera that we mounted on the front of the rover.

[B]

Okay, but this, this, then those don't use film. I'm not a camera expert. They don't use film.

[A]

No, it's a TV picture.

[B]

Okay, so just broadcast straight, doesn't record anything on it. It's just live broadcast.

[A]

It was recorded down here in mission Control.

[B]

Okay, got it, got it. Okay, okay, I understand, but we didn't.

[A]

Have a recorder on. Well, we had. I'm not sure, but I don't think we had a recorder on board.

[B]

Okay, so the TV cameras were recorded down at mission control. And those would have been recorded on tapes, I'm guessing.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And those would be the tapes that have been erased.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

Okay, so that was the incompetence of NASA.

[C]

Allegedly or intentional? Just like they. Or intentionally destroyed the technology, they intentionally erased the tape so they knew what they were. Those excuse was to make room for other projects.

[B]

So, Steve, if you ask ChatGPT, let's ask Chachi Beatty what happened to the original tapes from the NASA missions? And let's see what the answer it gives is.

[D]

Oh, well, that would be this right here.

[B]

Oh, you already have it?

[D]

Yeah. All right, it's.

[B]

So the original tapes were later erased and reused. NASA routinely used magnetic tapes in the 60s and through the 80s due to storage cost and shortages. So that's, that's crazy that we. That the tapes from the lunar missions were recorded over.

[D]

They're saying that the, the.

[C]

Yeah, and they were recorded over locally recorded stuff.

[D]

Was. Was this slow scan stuff film, right? Yeah, No, I think it was tape. It's actual tape. Like, okay, you know, like tape recorders.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

They use that technology instead of film. That stuff was recorded over. But the stuff that they sent through broadcast survived.

[C]

Well, that's what it is. Ron Howard, whose grandfather warned him that the moon missions were fake, didn't listen, wanted to make an IMAX movie. And he requested all the original videotapes to be broadcast projected on an IMAX screen about 100ft by 120ft.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Bigger than they've ever been done before. He wanted to use the originals and it was between that request and a couple of days later that everything got erased. He had to go to Blockbuster and rent VHS tapes and reduce them to this tiny portion of the screen. Otherwise the image quality would be so bad. You can see the VHS tracking line is 90% of that movie is reenactments.

[B]

Is that a fact that. What year was this when Ron Howard requested the tapes from?

[C]

It was around 1999, something like that.

[B]

So around Steve, hopefully you can look this up. Ron Howard was working on an IMAX film in around 1999, requested the original tapes from NASA and we. You're saying it is an absolute fact that we can look up that NASA erased those tapes?

[A]

You just did.

[B]

Yeah, right after Ron Howard requested them.

[C]

Well, that was my research at the time. I did, I did my [e-mail], took seven years to produce. I was given a million dollars by someone who builds rockets for NASA, who knows the moon missions are fake, who thought it was his patriotic duty to expose it. Now, not only is it the first time in history that technology is greater in the past and in the future, not only is it the only time in history that all of the documentation, all the technology according to NASA astronaut was intentionally destroyed. It's also the first time in history that nobody could Repeat the event 50 years later. Imagine them splitting the atom in 1945, the first atomic bomb. And 50 years later, no one can split the atom, when in fact just 10 years later, atomic bombs were 1,000 times more powerful. So if they could go to the moon on the first attempt, ahead of schedule, with one millionth the computing power of a cell phone, we would have been on Mars 10 years later, we'd be in Another solar system by now and there'd be bases all over the moon taking people back and forth to play basketball and 10 or 16 gravity. The best NASA can do today is send mannequins to orbit the moon when somehow we could play golf and drive cars on the moon with 1960s technology on the first attempt. There have been six presidents who have said a total of nine times they're going to return to the moon in five years. You had Ronald Reagan said it, then Clinton said it, then Bush Senior said it, then Bush Jr. Said it twice then and Obama said it twice and Trump said it one time. And they can't do it with 50 years better technology. They can't return to the moon in 50 years, but somehow they could do it with 1960s technology on the first attempt.

[B]

Why don't you think we've been able to go back to the moon since 72?

[A]

Because they spent the money on other programs.

[C]

Well, the government spends every month 70% more money than they take.

[A]

Look, I'm not going to argue with you about this. We went to the moon six times. We landed on the moon.

[C]

You lied to the American public six times, which is the arrogance of the American.

[A]

Well, then you don't believe we landed on the moon.

[C]

You didn't know that before you got here.

[A]

How did we get 600 pounds of moon rocks?

[C]

Well, like I said, let's talk about the moon.

[B]

Okay, let's, let's, let's put a pin there. Now let's talk about the moon rocks. Okay. Why? What evidence do you have? I know you have some that proves that the moon rocks were not actually moon rocks, right?

[C]

Yeah. If you could find. Let me find the clip here.

[B]

Bar.

[C]

Look it up. Bars position, Netherlands. Fake. Fake moon rock. Let's go to clip D7 real quick. This is a recent article about the French government. And they did. They committed a crime in 1945 that they're still lying about today. And what happened was their soldiers returned from World War II and wanting their back pay and they refused to give it to them because they were black. And when they kept protesting, they machine gunned 300 of them in a single base and buried them. That just came out. That happened in 1945. And played the clip. And let's read this news article. It says one of the things that they did was they fabricated.

[B]

What does that do with moon rocks?

[C]

Because it shows governments. It says they fabricated and destroyed evidence. So we're going to look at the fabrication. I'm just trying to find the clip. Here it's out of sequence.

[B]

All right, about the moon rocks.

[C]

Or you could look it up. Look up fake moon rock in Amsterdam.

[B]

Yeah, let's. Well, yeah. So are the moon rocks something that is available for the public to see?

[A]

D 29 yeah, I mean, the moon rocks are on display all over the world. And also they're still doing experiments on the moon rock. NASA's the Lunar Planetary Institute or whoever it is, is controlling those and sending those out. People submit experiment requests still today about to do experiments on the moon rocks. So there's still moon rocks available.

[B]

And do they, do they let outside researchers do analysis on them and universities. Yeah, universities do, yeah. Okay.

[A]

I mean, they let universities have some. Like I'm not involved in that at all.

[B]

Right, sure.

[A]

And you know, I've been with NASA for a long time. But the moon rocks are unique and in their radioactive whatever and not radioactive evidence, but they're the way they are, have been collected. They were collected on every mission. They were isolated when they got back and put in the lunar receiving lab. And now they're still being given out samples. People are still requesting samples of moon rocks. And NASA evaluates these experiments that they request and apparently they still giving some of it out. I have been with NASA in a long, long time, so I don't know how it works today.

[B]

So Bart, how do you explain us having actual moon rocks here on Earth?

[C]

Well, like I said, Von Braun went to Antarctica. There's a picture of him in Antarctica where he collected hundreds of pounds of lunar meteorites which they use for fake moon rocks. NASA also has the most advanced ceramics lab in the world where they could take a right a rock and falsify micrometeorites sitting it and then go to clip 29. This is about moon rocks. It says they, they opened one up and it proved to be fake. Do you realize a few years ago a 70 year old woman was arrested by the FBI and thrown in a cell, not allowed to go to the bathroom. She had to pee on herself because she had a paperweight with one speck of an alleged moon rock in the very center of it and she couldn't pay her electric bill or mortgage. And it was given to her by her husband who got it from someone at NASA. And the FBI surrounded her to get that so that it couldn't be opened and examined independently. And this is just a tiny speck of a moon rock.

[B]

Who is. What was this woman's name?

[C]

I don't know, but you could look it up. 70 year old woman arrested for Having a moon rock or trying to sell a moon rock and play clip 29 you said what's the proof of the fake moon rocks? You have D29 there, Steve.

[B]

Let's see it.

[C]

Look at D29. It's a spill of the article.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

From the Telegraph given to Holland by Neil Armstrong is a fake. This is one that had complete chain of custody from the surface of the moon to Neil Armstrong's hand to his pocket, to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, hermetically sealed, opened a few years ago after someone watched my film out of curiosity. And it ends up being this out of world looking piece of petrified wood. Now, unless trees are growing on the moon, the moon rock is fake. And yet no reporter has the courage to ask if the moon rocks are fake. What about the moon missions? I had a reporter from the Washington Post that broke the Watergate story. I showed him the footage which we're going to show of them faking being halfway to the moon that says don't show to the public at the beginning.

[B]

You're all over the place.

[C]

Yeah, but we'll get to it. The point is he agreed that it proved they never left Earth orbit. But he was forbidden to publish it.

[B]

Okay, you're. We got to stick to one topic. Let's go back to the moon rocks. This piece of petrified wood that you were showing, that was given to the Prime Minister of Holland, right? Or I thought it was a Dutch Prime Minister.

[C]

The same thing that's in Thailand.

[B]

I thought it was like the Netherlands, right? Correct. Okay, I've heard this story before. I heard you. I first heard it from you. I also heard a pushback on this. That it was not Buzz Aldrin or Neil Armstrong who gave it to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands. However, it was the US Ambassador to the Netherlands that gave him this thing.

[C]

Well, my understanding it went so it was not directly from Neil Armstrong is the one who said he picked it up and it was on a visit of him.

[B]

Set it to who?

[C]

He visited the Netherlands and gave it to the Prime Minister.

[B]

We should find it.

[C]

Claimed he claimed he picked it up and put it in his pocket. Let's find is who gave.

[B]

Who gave the Prime Minister of the Netherlands the fake moon rock? Who actually gave it to him.

[C]

So for 40 years everyone thought it was a moon rock. It was billed as a moon rock picked up off the lunar surface by Apollo 11. They did a little tour around the world afterwards. He gave moon rocks to various people. He gave one to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands it was sealed. It was opened up a few years ago.

[B]

Okay, Right here.

[C]

To be a piece of bar right here.

[B]

It says. It says Prime Minister. Okay. The rock. The rock was not given to the Dutch prime minister by astronauts, but was instead given to the former prime minister William Drees by the then U.S. ambassador William Middendorf in 1969 during a goodwill. A goodwill tour by the Apollo 11 astronauts.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

So the rock was later found to be fair and actually. And actually was a piece of petrified wood.

[C]

Okay, so Neil Armstrong was there at the visit. That's when the rock was given. He claimed he picked it up. The Prime Minister of the Netherlands didn't pick it up. Neil Armstrong picked it up. There he is. Apollo 11 astronauts during.

[B]

How do we know? We don't. We don't. We don't know that. Okay, it says it was during the tour.

[C]

Okay, so either Neil Armstrong.

[A]

What is your point?

[C]

So it's because it seems you claim the moon.

[B]

Put the headphones on. Or you can't just keep talking over everybody, bro. It's like it's. It's too much.

[C]

Okay, I'm sorry.

[B]

It's too much. He's. His point is that this piece of moonrock that was given to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands during the Apollo 11 goodwill tour by. With Neil and Buzz was later anal analyzed and found to be petrified wood and not a moon rock. That's his evidence that the moon rocks aren't real?

[A]

Well, I brought back a couple hundred pounds, maybe. Moon rocks, I don't remember exactly. And they're very unique. Got a radiation history that is unique.

[B]

They look anything like that?

[A]

No, no, they look like. Look like charcoal. And they don't look like that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They look like more gray charcoal.

[B]

What was the biggest boon rock that you brought back?

[A]

I think £25.

[B]

Whoa. Like roughly. Roughly how big?

[A]

I had to roll it up my leg. It was so first EVA at Plum Crater.

[B]

And is that a moon rock?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Is that a real moon rock?

[A]

We didn't collect anything like that. The one on the right.

[B]

No, no. What? What? Zoom out, Steve, and see if you can find. See if we can find something that Charlie would think that looks like one of the moon rocks that he grabbed. Does any of this look like one of the rocks that you had?

[A]

No.

[B]

No. What if we googled Charlie Duke Moon rock.

[D]

Oh, there you go.

[A]

Maybe Apollo 16 moon rock.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Or Apollo 16 moon rock.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Big Muley I picked up. Go left. Is that big Muley? The one on the left? That one. The Big, Big muley. No, the other one to the left.

[B]

That one?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Huh.

[B]

That's a. That's. That's a real moon rock.

[A]

That's. I. I picked it up.

[B]

Yeah, that was a 25 pounder.

[A]

I don't remember how. No, it didn't weigh that much, but.

[B]

No.

[A]

But I don't remember. We picked a total collection for Apollo 16 was probably a couple hundred pounds. And what.

[B]

When you got him into the. The module, when you got the rocks in there, did you have them in any kind of specific bag or anything?

[A]

We had them in. In vacuum. Vacuum boxes. A lot of them.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And then a lot of them were just in a. In. And I don't remember exactly in none of them whether we had had them brought back or just didn't have room for them in these rock boxes, we call them. But most of them were put in rock boxes outside and so never saw atmosphere inside.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So once you took your suit off, you weren't able to interact with them at all? You couldn't touch them, you could smell them?

[A]

I don't remember doing any of that. No.

[B]

No. What about once you got back to Earth? Did you touch them at all or hold them at all when you got back to Earth?

[A]

We went into the Lunar Receiving Lab where they were, and we were able to put on gloves or whatever it was and sterilize that thing and just look at them. But I don't remember being. Picking them up and tossing them around or anything like that.

[B]

Were there any smells that you remembered? Like, usually smells are good at triggering memories. Like, was there any. Any specific smell that was strange to you about the moon when you. Even when you got back in the.

[A]

Well, we were pretty stinky. I can say that.

[B]

A lot of bo. Yeah, a lot of bo. But nothing else? No other interesting smells?

[A]

No. Well, I mean, some of the food smelled. You know, you could, you know, smell a tuna salad or something.

[B]

What about, like, dust or something? Like dust from the moon on your suit or on your boots or something? Anything like that?

[A]

No, I don't remember any smell from the. But it. Sometimes that smell. That was a gunpowder smell. Sometimes.

[B]

And what was that from?

[A]

I don't know. That's probably moon dust, but I'm not sure. But it was. There's no organic material in it, like. Like gunpowder.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So.

[B]

Okay. Okay, so these. This moon rock debate is difficult because we don't have any moon rocks and we haven't done any analysis on anyone.

[A]

We picked up that one big muley.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. It looks absolutely nothing like the petrified wood on the left.

[A]

No.

[B]

So it was given to this guy. So I guess the story is. The story is true. I mean, we've. If we've corroborated it with other. With AI and with Bart's store, with Bart's article that that gift was given, but it wasn't. It was given by the US Ambassador to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands.

[A]

The one on the left.

[B]

The one on the left, yeah. And it was.

[A]

He was told that looked like any of the moon rocks we collected.

[B]

Right, Right.

[C]

But you said they were different in different landing sites earlier, that the rocks at your side in Apollo 11 were different.

[B]

Were the RO different at different landing sites? Do they look different?

[A]

Not that I recall. Not that different. They're not that much different.

[B]

Right. Okay.

[C]

Okay. The number one proof is what we have next. Seen. I'm answering your question about what proof there is. Now, I gave NASA the.

[B]

About what specifically?

[C]

About how they didn't go to the moon. They can't leave Earth orbit. They still can't leave Earth.

[B]

Are we talking about radiation belts now?

[C]

No, I'm talking about the footage of them faking being halfway to the moon.

[B]

The foot. Okay. The footage, if you show. I do after this. I would like to talk about the radiation belts, if that's okay.

[C]

That's next after.

[A]

Perfect.

[C]

Right? And so first, let's look at the slide, D8. This is @ the beginning of the reel. I asked NASA for every video, every film from Apollo 11, figuring if they faked it, they're more likely to have made a mistake the first time they faked it. Now, keep in mind, I went from being the biggest fan, Gaga worshiping the Apollo 11 project, with pictures on my wall everywhere I went, like a shrine to having an open mind that maybe they faked it, to looking into it, being given a million dollars by somebody who builds rockets for NASA to investigate it, who said they were fake, and then stumbling upon this evidence, which is what convinced me that they were fake. In fact, this footage was shown to two NBC News directors. They both agreed it proved that Apollo 11 never left Earth orbit and they were threatened by the federal government not to broadcast it or to have their license pulled. So the first part you'll see in D8 is the slide that says, not for public.

[D]

Distribution. Oh, it's not popped.

[C]

Up. Oh, there we go. Okay, so that shows that this is not for public distribution. Now, the next clip is at the.

[B]

Very. Let's read it. It says this film of the Apollo 11 mission was produced as A report film by the Manned Spacecraft center and is not for general public.

[C]

Distribution. Yeah, I asked NASA for unedited footage and everything I got was pre edited with a voiceover. And it's the same footage over and over again on 10 different reels. Exact same footage. Most reporters are satisfied with that. I'm investigating the possibility that they faked it. And I asked for everything, specifically unedited footage. I got this and one of the reel that was unedited. Now, at the very beginning of the reel clip nine, which you're about to play, you'll hear NASA say the TV picture looks great. Then there is exactly four seconds of dead air. You'll hear a third party that's not NASA, not the astronauts, presumably the CIA. And after four seconds go by, they tell Neil Armstrong in a private earpiece talk. And then he starts speaking because he's claiming that he is halfway to the moon at this point in the mission. The timestamp indicates, according to the script, that they're supposed to be halfway to the moon. In fact, they never left Earth orbit. They can't leave Earth orbit now. And there's a number of reasons for.

[B]

That. So, Charlie, have you ever seen this footage.

[A]

Before? No. It's crazy.

[C]

Okay? Yeah, it is crazy how corrupt the federal government.

[A]

Is. Well, so, I mean, you're calling me a liar. I never went to the.

[C]

Moon. Well, obviously. I mean, what surprise. You knew who you were gonna be here. You knew who was gonna be here before you got here. 12 of us act like it's a.

[A]

Surprise. I'm a surprise. I didn't realize that. You did. You thought it was all a.

[C]

Fake. You knew that. You reminded me of our phone conversation 20 years ago when you walked in the door that I said we had. I had. You quoted.

[B]

Me. I showed you his website that.

[C]

I had proof that we didn't go to the moon. You knew when he invited you. This, this is no surprise. And yet you're acting like you're surprised. This is why you should get the Academy Award. Now, the reason is if he's halfway to the moon, there would be an estimated two second radio time there and two seconds back. So they're faking a radio delay. You'll hear NASA. You'll hear four seconds go by. You'll hear a third party that's not NASA, not the astronauts prompt Neil Armstrong with talk and that way they can fake the four second radio delay. Go ahead, play clip nine. Houston, Ghost says that the TV looks.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Over.

[C]

11. Houston, Goldstone says that the TV looks.

[A]

Great. No.

[C]

Restaurant. Okay, so how was.

[B]

It? Was it, where did you get your. Get this stuff from.

[C]

Again? From.

[B]

NASA. NASA sent you this? One second, one second. They sent it to you by.

[C]

Mistake? Either that or someone. One of my sources at NASA who said the missions were fake thinks a whistleblower sent it to me. Okay, and.

[B]

So. Hold on, Charlie, what do you make of.

[A]

That? I don't understand what he's talking about here, but the missions were not fake.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. They sent me to the.

[C]

Moon. And we understand that for 56.

[B]

Years. Hold on, Bart. The, the footage that we just watched was from Apollo 11. Could you hear it, can you hear it in your headphones? It's, it's Houston communicating with the astronauts on the radio. And then you hear a four second delay. And then you can hear the audio of someone going, talk. And then you hear Neil Armstrong responding to Houston. Let's watch it one more time. Let's show.

[A]

Charlie. I didn't get.

[B]

That. Yeah, let's show one more time. Just read the.

[C]

Text. Looks.

[B]

Great. Over. 2, 3, 4. Does that make.

[C]

Sense? Houston, they can't leave Earth orbit today and they can't leave Earth orbit in.

[B]

1969. So the footage is, it's footage of the moon. And you, you could hear Neil talking to Houston, right? In that video clip? Yeah, yeah, you could hear them talking. And there's a little voice that pops up after four seconds that says, talk to Neil. Why would there be a voice.

[A]

I don't know, telling Neil to talk?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Are they on the moon or they, they're halfway.

[C]

Right? They're supposed to be.

[B]

Halfway. So this is when they were halfway to the moon, communicating with Houston. And after Houston said something on the radio, there was four seconds and then somebody on the radio saying, talk to Neil, instructing Neil to respond to Houston after four seconds. Why do you think that would.

[A]

Be? I don't know. Okay. I've it in my recollection admission. I was in Mission control for Apollo 10. I was Capcom. I was in mission control for Apollo 11. It's Capcom. And nothing like this ever happened in Mission.

[B]

Control. There would never be anybody saying talk to anybody. It would just be, as soon as you hear it, you would.

[A]

Respond. Generally that was true.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, what were the.

[A]

Exceptions? I can't think of any right now. But I mean, if. Say again, Houston. Or say you, you. A lot of reasons that mission control had. Not Mission Control, but we had problems, scratchy.

[B]

Communication. So if you couldn't understand. Yeah, okay, I see what you're.

[A]

Saying. Say again?

[C]

Whatever. Yeah, except the quality, the EQ of the audio of talk is completely different. It's not obviously NASA who just spoke and it's not Neil Armstrong who responded. They're faking a four second radio delay to pretend that they're beyond Earth.

[B]

Orbit. So this is him. So, so Bart's position is that video with them sit with the voice coming in and saying talk is them trying to fake a four second delay. That's part of his.

[A]

Argument. So what? I mean, I don't, I don't.

[B]

Know. That's just one of his arguments. Is that there because you hear the, the voice come in and say talk. The talk comes in four seconds after Houston finishes their statement. Right. So the presumption from Bart is there's no delay, but they, the astronauts were instructed to wait for four seconds until someone else came in and said talk. That way it would look like there was a four second delay and it would look like they were already halfway to the.

[C]

Moon. Right. Because if you play clip 11, Neil Armstrong for the TV audience, the part that was shown to the public says he's calling in from about 130,000 miles out. Right, Halfway to the moon. Go ahead and play clip 11. Roger, Houston, Apollo 11 calling in from about 130,000 miles out. Okay, so that's him lying. He's not 130,000 miles out. He's still in Earth orbit. That's why they faked the four second radio delay. Now play clip.

[B]

10. Is this the, is this the photo of them faking the window.

[C]

Thing?

[B]

Almost. Okay, let's try to, let's try to go through this. We have a lot to cover and we're almost two hours.

[A]

In. We only have one window that has a view of the Earth and.

[C]

It'S filled up with the TV camera. Okay, so go back to clip 11, the 130, 000 miles out. Don't play the audio, but just bring up the image and you can hit pause so we can see the image. So according to Neil Armstrong, there's only one window that has a view of the Earth and it's filled up with the TV camera because you're talking to the mic. Oh, yeah. So if you were really halfway to the moon, looking back at the Earth, like this appears to demonstrate, even though it's a fake shot, you would have to have the lens of the camera to the window in order to shoot the Earth far away, floating in space. He says he's lying 130,000 miles out, and he says that the camera is Completely filling up the window. That's a lie too. The camera is really at the back of the spacecraft. There's about 15ft between the camera and the window. They've turned out all the lights which they talk about because they thought these conversations would be edited out. And that's actually the circular window of the spacecraft, outside of which it's filled with the Earth and low Earth orbit. One photographer cinematographer believes they took a transparency, a positive, a slide of the Earth photographed from a satellite and placed it over the window that was backlit by Earthshine. Now if you play the final clip. Oh, the. The D11, play it all the way through to revealing. So play 11 one more time. There are two clips on.

[B]

11. So this is supposed to be into the.

[C]

Mic. No, just let it play at normal speed. This is supposed to be the Earth, but that's fine. This is supposed to be the Earth floating in space. This is the outtake. That's why it said do not show to the public. There's Buzz Aldrin removing part of the effect in front of the window. That's a work light. The camera has been at the back of the spacecraft the entire time. The iris is opened and you can see the real location and the very bright Earth out the window. They just faked being halfway to the moon. My critics agree that is them faking being halfway to the moon. Two NBC News directors agree that is them faking being halfway to the moon. And they were told by the federal government if they broadcast it, they would have their license pulled. So go to sabral.com all of these clips can be seen there for free. This is what convinced me. I gave NASA the benefit of the doubt for as long as possible. And when I saw this, they are faking half way to the moon. So if you could really go to the moon, why would you be faking any of it? And if you're faking being halfway to the moon, it's because you can't go halfway to the moon. And What a surprise, 56 years later, they still cannot leave Earth orbit. Only mannequins can. And we'll go on to why next, which is the Van Allen radiation.

[B]

Belt. All right, hold on, let's put a pause there. So, Charlie, on your trip on Apollo 16, did you guys ever turn around and, and take film or footage or any photos of the moon or, I'm sorry, of the Earth when you were about.

[A]

Halfway? I'm sure that we did. I don't remember specifically, but we.

[B]

Were. If you were. If you were to take a video or a film of the Earth on your way to the moon, how would you do.

[A]

It? Well, you turn a window to the Earth and. And the. There was a. I had a window right up here, which was a triangle. I had a window right over here. And in zero gravity, you had to hold a camera up to the window, towards the window and the objects you had out there. So you could do it from any window. It depends on how you oriented the.

[B]

Spacecraft. So, okay, so you would be able to orient the spacecraft while you're traveling to the moon to line up a window with the.

[A]

Earth? Yeah.

[B]

Sure. Okay. And so roughly, how big is. How big is that spacecraft? How big is the.

[A]

Interior lesson? If I'm in my couch, I can reach out and touch in my suit, and I could reach out and touch the side of the.

[B]

Spacecraft.

[A]

Okay. John Young on liftoff, it was Mattingly. He was touching my shoulder, and on the other side, he was touching John's shoulder, and John was reaching out and touching the side of the.

[C]

Spacecraft. But the command.

[A]

Module. The command.

[C]

Module? Yeah, the command and service module were coupled together, so there was actually more depth than.

[B]

That.

[A]

Okay. Not in the spacecraft, it wasn't. The service module was hooked to. The command module was sat on top of the service module, and we received a lot of stuff from the service module. But the command module was a separate empty and. And didn't have connections that were electrical connections. Right. Service connections, but they weren't any.

[B]

Pathway. You couldn't go.

[A]

There. You couldn't go.

[B]

There. Got it. Okay. And so you're saying it was roughly about maybe the size, the length of this table, maybe a little.

[A]

Bigger, probably this table probably wider than Apollo spacecraft.

[B]

Was. Okay. And so twice.

[C]

So.

[B]

Table. So when you were, let's just say, hypothetically, you're on your way to the moon on Apollo 16, you would look back, you want to take a shot of the Earth at halfway. Right. You're halfway to the moon. How would you position the camera inside the spacecraft to shoot the.

[A]

Earth? The first of all, you have to get a window looking at the Earth, right?

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Right. And you could get the window. You face the Earth. It was a. There was a triangular window here and a window.

[B]

Here. For me, how was. What. What was the shape of the other window for.

[A]

You? I think it was a sort of a triangular.

[B]

Shape. Triangular shape.

[A]

Okay. Anyway, you could get up there with a camera and just look out. And if. If the spacecraft was not rotating the held position, then you could just reach out and just start Taking pictures with your TOSSELBLAD or the 16 millimeter camera we had. We didn't waste film.

[B]

Though. And you would put it basically right smack dab up to the.

[A]

Window. No, no, Sometimes you.

[B]

Would. Okay.

[A]

Okay. Depends on what you were trying to. What you were trying to look at. If the Earth was out there and you wanted to get right close so you could see the whole of the Earth, you would, you could get back and you could see. You could still see the Earth out there, but it was like you were looking through a four foot of air in a spacecraft. So you'd want to get up right next to it to get a good.

[B]

Window. Right. And how fast was the craft moving at that point?

[A]

Halfway. It. Very.

[B]

It.

[A]

Roughly. Well, it took 72 hours to get to the moon is 200 and something. Thousand miles. So on average it. 3,000 miles an.

[B]

Hour. 3,000 miles an hour. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so this footage is as Bart described from Apollo 11. And they have the camera. Steve, do you have, you have like a, a rendering of the, of the.

[D]

Spacecraft? Yeah, give me a.

[B]

Second. So we downloaded a 3D render of the interior of the spacecraft, and I want to see if it's accurate. First of all, this is it. So this was created by the Smithsonian, and it's a. Supposed to be a perfect 3D render. Does that look. Does that look.

[A]

Right? That's. That's the hatch right there. Yeah, that would be the hatch. And there was a window then on the right side. I had a window. Well, on this side. Wait a.

[C]

Minute.

[D]

I've. I think we were in.

[A]

This. I was. I would be on the other.

[B]

Side. So he was on the.

[C]

Left. Which Apollo mission is this rendering.

[B]

Of? Do they have different ones for every.

[A]

Apollo? No, that's all the.

[B]

Same. They're all the.

[D]

Same. Which is the number one, specifically Apollo.

[B]

11. This is specifically Apollo 11. Okay, so this would have been the same craft they were shooting from in that video that you provided. Okay, so which window, Bart, were they filming.

[C]

From? Based on the number one window. So. And it appeared to be circular on camera. And like I said, another cinematographer thinks they put a device over the window. There's a photograph of the.

[B]

Earth. I don't see any circle windows at all in.

[C]

This. Was there a circular window in there.

[B]

General? That's kind of like a square. It's like a.

[A]

Rounded. And there might be a circular window in the hatch. I don't.

[B]

Remember. So the hatch is missing here. So maybe that's what they were filming out of the.

[A]

Hatch. Well, no, well, the hatch would be open, and sometimes you could. If you got right up close, you could see the hatch.

[C]

Being. Yeah, I think you're right. The circular.

[B]

Window. So find a. Find a photo of the hatch for the lunar module and see if.

[A]

There was the lunar module, the command.

[B]

Module. I'm.

[D]

Sorry.

[C]

Sorry. Well, we already have them claiming that the camera's up against the window when in fact, it's at the back of the.

[B]

Spacecraft. Okay, so there's the.

[C]

Hatchet. It's a circle window breaking down. We mean, you look at it where he says he's 130,000 miles out. And the other. The second half of it where they start fiddling with their hands in front of the window, it's the same shot. They claim it's 130,000 miles out. And then the moment later, you see it's the window being made up to look like the Earth floating in space. Go back a couple of seconds so you.

[B]

Feel. Okay, stop. Pause it right there. Pause it right there. So Charlie, move the guy out of the way of the window so we can still see the interior of the spacecraft. So that window straight ahead, that's got, like, light glaring through.

[C]

It. Circular. It.

[B]

Looks. That's circular. Right. So that would be the.

[A]

Hatch. Right, that's the.

[B]

Hatch. That's the hatch. Okay. So the camera is basically as far back as it can possibly be inside the command.

[A]

Module. That's in the lower equipment.

[B]

Bay. It would be the lower equipment bay. Okay, cool. Now play it so we can get a better idea of. There are the cameras staying there and they're adjusting the.

[C]

Exposure. Yeah, right.

[B]

There. So there you can.

[C]

See. A moment ago, they claimed that was 130,000 miles out, the Earth floating in space. But it's not the Earth floating in space. It's the window being made to look like the Earth floating in space. So they're faking being halfway to the moon. So why would they fake being halfway to the moon if they really went halfway to the.

[B]

Moon? Well, let's. You don't even have to go that far. Okay, let's. Let's say why are. Why, why are they shooting it from so far back? Why wouldn't they put the camera up to the.

[A]

Window? They. We did at times, but sometimes you just want to look at the inside and what is what the guy's.

[E]

Doing.

[B]

But. Right, but if you go back. Understood, but if you go back, they're showing it with the entire interior blacked out. Steve, if you rewind.

[D]

It. Yeah, that's. So that he can get exposure of the.

[A]

Wind. If you got the outside, if you got the windows not open but uncovered, you're going to get light reflected from the Earth and light from the sun into the.

[B]

Spacecraft. Right? Right. So go. Go to the.

[A]

Beginning.

[B]

Go. Go forward a little bit more. So it just shows you. So see, they're. They're filming.

[C]

It. They claimed that was the Earth floating in.

[B]

Space. It looks like they're trying. Do you understand why Bart thinks they're trying to pull some sort of camera trick? They're trying to. It looks like right now, if you paused it right here and you showed that to me or any other dumb, dumb like me, you would think that the black is just space. Right. And that's just the Earth floating in space. That's what it looks like to.

[C]

Me. So hit.

[B]

Play now. And he's saying while they're filming it that they're 130, 000 miles out, which is not.

[C]

True. So there's the.

[B]

Earth. So it's like, wow, look how small the Earth is. Way floating away in outer space. And it's pretty incredible. And then this is the same foot. You know, this is not cut. This is same, same, same footage. And the camera's sort of wobbling. There's something weird in the top left corner. Maybe a.

[C]

Light. It's a work light that they diffused so wouldn't throw light on the spacecraft.

[B]

Walls. Now it's like now there's something moving in between the camera lens and the.

[A]

Window.

[B]

Yeah. So it's not space, it's just the interior of the.

[A]

Spacecraft. That's.

[C]

Right. It's the window of the spacecraft being made to look like the Earth floating in.

[B]

Space. Right. So if. If they are trying to pull a camera trick here, Bart. Now look, you see the window's totally blown.

[A]

Out. That's what it would look.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Okay. They had the Irish cluster in the other.

[A]

One. The hatch. The hat. That's the hatch. The hatch window. And then there's another triangular.

[B]

Window.

[A]

Yep. And there was one on my side. There was another. I forgot exactly what the space was, but there was windows right here. And I could look out that window. And there was a. On the other side, there was a docking window. You looked out when you had to dock. And it was a tri. I forgot exactly the shape. Maybe oblong rectangle or something like that. And then there was a round hatch window. And then there was a window on the left. I could look out my own. I was on the right side and I could look out of the Window. It was right there and John Young had a window on the other side. And it was a hatch window above us. And it was two windows up in, beyond the, the lower equipment.

[B]

Bay. So, so Steve, go back, go back to where it's exposed for the interior. So right there, that's the hatch.

[A]

Window?

[B]

Yeah. Is that how bright? Okay, move the hand. Okay. Is that, would it be that.

[A]

Bright?

[B]

Yeah. 130000 miles away. If that window was facing the Earth at 130000 miles out, is that how bright it would.

[A]

Be? It's facing more to the sun than the.

[B]

Earth. Well, the video is claiming, according to the video, Neil is saying that that's the.

[A]

Earth. That wouldn't be the Earth.

[B]

Wouldn't. That would not.

[A]

Be. The picture is not the.

[B]

Earth.

[C]

No. Well, it is the Earth. That's the reflection off of the.

[B]

Earth.

[C]

That's. That's.

[A]

Earth.

[B]

Shine. Well, this is, this is kind of incredible because he's saying it's not the.

[C]

Earth. Well, it is. And clearly they just faked being halfway to the.

[B]

Moon. Well, the video is because they're.

[C]

In Earth orbit, that's the Earth out the window. It's filling the entire.

[B]

Window. Right, but listen, Charlie just said at130,000 miles out, that is not what it would look like. Okay, this video clearly is Neil armstrong saying they're 130, 000 miles.

[C]

Out. Yeah, I understand it's a fake.

[B]

Shot. So that's why Bart believes that there's something weird going on. So if they were in Earth orbit, wouldn't you see the Earth moving by super fast, like clouds moving by? You would see land moving. They would be flying. If you look at footage, that's.

[C]

Why David Percy, a cinematographer award winning BBC cinematographer, said they took a photograph from an unmanned satellite and they had like a positive or kind of like an X ray, but a color print that was translucent and they put it over the window. That's what they were removing. When you see the yellow circle around the window, they're removing the photograph. So it's a photograph that's being.

[B]

Backlit by Earth shut of the Earth with a terminator line. They're shoving it in the window.

[C]

Put a little crescent piece of material into the.

[B]

Window. I see what you're.

[C]

Saying. To fake the terminator is dividing night and.

[A]

Day. Okay, I don't understand the purpose of this.

[B]

Conversation. So, so this video that we're watching right now that you just watched, this is a video of Apollo 11. And Neil says in the beginning of the video, that they are a hundred and thirty or 130, 000 miles away from the moon. So we say. He said that. He just said they're.

[A]

Halfway.

[B]

Yeah. And you just said there's no way they're.

[A]

Halfway. I didn't say.

[B]

That. Judging by the looking at how bright that window is, you said if that's the Earth, it wouldn't be that.

[A]

Bright. Say that. I didn't say that. I said that. Could be the sun shining.

[B]

Then. No, no, but I'm saying if that was. If that window was facing the earth at 130, 000 miles, you said it wouldn't be that bright. If that was facing the Earth.

[A]

You would see the Earth. You wouldn't see the ref. This is the sun shining.

[B]

In. Okay, but. Okay, okay, hypothetically, if that window was facing the earth at 130, 000 miles, you said it wouldn't be that bright a minute ago.

[A]

Right. The Earth was never that bright. Okay, okay. You look out the window and you, You. You'd look out the window and you'd see the Earth just hung up.

[B]

There. Right. It wouldn't be blasting through the window like.

[C]

That. What about from Earth orbit? Would it be that bright from Earth.

[A]

Orbit? Depends on where you.

[C]

Are. So it might be that bright from Earth.

[D]

Orbit.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[A]

Interesting. I don't understand the purpose of this.

[C]

Discussion. Well, they're faking being halfway to.

[B]

The moon because he thinks this is a fake shot. He thinks. He thinks that the. He thinks that this craft right here is in low Earth orbit, and they're trying to fake it by moving the camera back and exposing for the window to make it look like Earth is really far away and the surrounding inner spacecraft that's underexposed is just space. He thinks they're trying to make some sort of a camera trick to fake that they're halfway to the moon when they're really in low Earth orbit. That's what Bart's claim.

[A]

Is. When you're in low Earth orbit, you look out and you've. And your windows are face at the Earth. You look down and you just see nothing but.

[B]

Earth.

[A]

Right. And you're whizzing.

[C]

By.

[A]

Right. You see that? You can go over Australia. You can go over the Pacific. You look. It depends on where you are. And you're in a lower Earth orbit. You look out the.

[B]

Window. It might. It might look something like that. Filling the windows with light.

[A]

You'Re. No, no, it would.

[B]

Not. Okay, well, that.

[A]

Camera. Only if the windows are pointed towards the.

[B]

Sun.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Okay. I see a moment ago, you said it might look like that from Earth shine and Earth.

[B]

Orbit. It depends on the exposure of the camera. Yeah, the Earth shine.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, Steve, what were you gonna.

[D]

Say? It looks like this. It's not the. It looks like. So. Because I'm also a cinematographer, and I would say that that window. That. That's probably the color of the window. And the sun is. Can you see this mouse? Yeah. The sun is probably somewhere over here poking through. You can see these rays shooting them right there. It's kind of hard to tell because he's got light bounce on his shoulder, and he's got light bounce on this elbow. It's likely hitting some part inside of the spacecraft and bouncing back. And it's filling in. His face over there is lightly kissing the shoulders here. But you can always tell sunlight because you can just look for the brightest thing, and that would be that ray shooting through. So it's probably just veiling the glass. And the glass is. You can see there's color right.

[B]

There.

[D]

Yeah. And you can see there's a similar color right here. So this one's getting kind of blue color, too. It is a blue. I think it's a tint. And what you're seeing there is. Even when you back up over here, this is just a bokeh ball. A bokeh ball showing whatever the. The lens is seeing. And this texture is probably the cabling that you see later on. Or it could just be, like, imperfections in the.

[C]

Glass. But.

[A]

That'S. That's. That looks like the Earth to.

[B]

Me. That looks like the Earth, but it's out of.

[C]

Focus. Obviously. It's not. It's the.

[B]

Window. And it's got a perfect terminator line.

[C]

Too. Go to the part where they're fiddling with it in front of the window. Go back another 15 seconds and hit.

[D]

Play. It's mis. Misformed because it's.

[B]

So. Steve, you don't think they're trying to film the Earth.

[D]

Here? I don't think so. They're looking at the.

[B]

Window. They're definitely trying to.

[C]

Film. That's where they claim it's130,000 miles out. It's a duplicate of this. This is later on in the.

[B]

Tape. It's very confusing. That's.

[C]

Very. Supposed to be halfway to the moon, and now you see them breaking down the effect. Removing the transparency of the photograph of the Earth in front of the window. The camera was never up against the glass. It was at the back of the spacecraft, they closed the iris down so that the walls became black. And here they are removing part of the effect in front of the window. All right, this is what convinced me. And to NBC News director and an award winning cinematographer, and my critics agree, it is Apollo 11 shaking, being halfway to the moon. Okay, so why would they fake being halfway to the moon? If they really went to the moon and if they're faking being halfway, it's because they cannot go.

[B]

Halfway.

[C]

Understood. They cannot leave Earth orbit. And we'll go into why, which is the radiation belt that surrounds which we're gonna.

[B]

Do. We're two hours in, we have an hour left. But coffee is here and I need to go to the bathroom. So we're gonna take a quick break, coffee break, bathroom break, we'll come back, talk about the radiation belts. Be right back. Okay, now we're back, we're gonna talk about the radiation belts, the Van Allen belts. What is your position on the Van Allen radiation.

[C]

Belts? Well, my position is what Von Braun's original findings were, which is that it's 250 times a lethal dose. We have a quote from him in print that he says that if you do the math and if you first show slide.

[B]

D12. Okay, before you get to D12, for people that don't know that are.

[C]

Listening to this is an image of the.

[B]

Belt. So, yeah, the Van Allen radiation belts are basically large toroidal, donut shaped pockets of radiation that exist about, what is it, a thousand miles out from.

[C]

The Earth and extend about 30,000.

[B]

Miles. Extend about 30,000 miles. And every single space shuttle launch, basically every astronaut and every space shuttle launch, every moonwalk that's ever, I'm sorry, not moonwalk, spacewalk has ever been done, has been done below that in low Earth orbit. The only astronauts, the only manned mission that has ever been outside of the Van Allen radiation belts is the Apollo.

[C]

Missions. Through them, if you look at D12, you can show the audience what they look like and how every manned space mission, Mercury, Gemini, Skylab, the space shuttle is well below it. And this field of radiation starts at a thousand miles and extends about 30,000 miles. If you go to D13, this is a press release from the Apollo mission that was given to the press. They launch from Florida to be near the equator and they go right out through the middle, you see that right at the equator, they go through the Van Allen radiation belt. Now, if the spacecraft, like General said, is going 3,000 miles an hour and they're 30,000 miles thick, that would be 10 hours in the radiation to the moon and 10 hours back, I believe maybe the spacecraft was going a little bit faster. But in any case, it was at least two hours in the radiation to the moon, up to 10 hours and another two to 10 hours back. Now, the Orion mission sent up Geiger counters into the radiation belts in 2014, unmanned, and they registered the radiation. I called NASA, I said, I'm a journalist, this is a non military, taxpayer funded scientific mission. Can I please have the Geiger counter readings? They told me that was classified. They weren't able to tell me. Now, when NASA sent probes to the sun to find out the temperature of sun, the temperature wasn't classified. And when they sent probes to Jupiter to measure the amount of helium in Jupiter's atmosphere, the amount wasn't classified. So why would the amount of radiation inside the radiation belts and a spacecraft intending to one day send people to the moon, why would that radiation measurement be a classified.

[B]

Secret? Charlie, do you know why that would be.

[A]

Classified? I didn't realize it.

[B]

Was. So I would imagine that if it was classified, we would classify it because we wouldn't want the Soviets or the Chinese to know the actual level of.

[A]

Radiation. Like, what is the point of this.

[B]

Discussion? To the point that we're discussing now is Bart's position that the Van Allen radiation belts are too dangerous for human beings to pass through and survive it. And he's building his case to why that is right.

[A]

Now. Well, us. You're, you're. You have to accelerate to 25,000 miles an hour to get out of Earth.

[B]

Orbit. Okay.

[C]

Okay. I thought you said it was.

[B]

3,000. Let him talk. He said he was at 3,000 when they were.

[A]

Halfway. Sorry, Earth slowing you down. Okay, so the total distance of the moon is about 3,000 miles an hour. Seven times 70, that's 210,000.

[B]

Miles. Okay, okay, so.

[A]

When. Well, so when you go through the Van Allen bells, you're going so fast, it's just. You're.

[B]

Through. How fast are you traveling when you guys were going through the Van Allen.

[A]

Bells? Escape velocity is about, let's see, I don't remember exactly 36, 000ft per second or something like.

[C]

That. NASA told me it was 17, 000 miles an.

[A]

Hour. No, that's Earth.

[B]

Orbit. That's Earth.

[A]

Orbit? Yeah. Okay, then you have to escape Earth orbit. Accelerate. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was over 20,000 miles an hour to get out of Earth orbit. And so the S4B, the third stage of the Saturn rocket, you stayed attached to. And that engine lit and pushed you out of Earth orbit on a trajectory to the moon through the Van Allen bells. Then, then that, after that, almost you shut, you separated, you turned around and retrieved the lunar module from the third stage. It was riding underneath the command module and service module. So you, you separated and you turned around and you came back in and you docked. And then you, when you got all the electrical connections made, you flipped a switch and it released all the bolts and then you could back it out from the serve the third, third stage of the Saturn.

[B]

Rocket. Okay, when you guys were traveling through the Van Allen belts, did you, were you guys paying close attention to like where in the Van Allen belts you were? And also before you, before you, like when you were preparing, you guys did an unbelievably amount, unbelievable amount of prep and training for this, Right? What were the comp for the whole mission? Right. What were the conversations like during training with anybody, including Von Braun, about astronaut safety when it comes to radiation and the Van Allen belts? What were those conversations.

[A]

Like? It, the, it. There wasn't very much conversation about. It wasn't any danger. You're going through so fast. You just, you're exposed to so much radiation, but it's just a boom you threw, you know, and, and the bell served high radiation, but they aren't very thick, so you just go right straight through them and you don't get much radiation. I don't remember our dosimeters. We had dosimeters, several of them on our body and some in a spacecraft, I don't.

[B]

Remember. And that measures the level of.

[A]

Radiation that we're receiving, you.

[B]

Know. Okay.

[C]

Yeah. According to NASA, the radiation belts are 30,000 miles thick. Right. And if you were going 20,000 miles an hour, that would be an hour and a half. And the radiation to the moon.

[B]

Would be an hour and a.

[C]

Half. It'd be a little over, well, 30, 30,000 miles would be. If a 30,000 miles stick and you're going 20,000 miles an.

[B]

Hour. You said.

[C]

25. Well, he said.

[A]

20. No. Well, and if you start, you start out at 25,000 miles an hour, but you slow down, Earth gravity slows.

[B]

Down at the time you're traveling through the Van Allen belts through the outer part, the thick part of the Van Allen belts. How fast would you be.

[A]

Going? I don't remember.

[B]

Exactly. Over.

[A]

20? Yeah, over.

[B]

20. Over.

[C]

20,000. Well, then that would put.

[B]

You. So you'd be there for an hour, roughly, you'd be in the.

[A]

Van. How thick? Although I don't Remember how thick they.

[B]

Are? Well, according that math would suggest that that's about an hour in there, right? Maybe a little bit.

[C]

More. Yeah. About an hour and a half to the Moon, hour and a half back at 20, 000 miles an hour. But then there's a contradiction. If you're going 20, 000 miles an hour with inertia, you'd be at the Moon in a little over 10 hours rather than three.

[B]

Days. But they slow down, right? Don't.

[C]

They? Allegedly. Once they got to the Moon, obviously they would have to slow down to land on the.

[A]

Moon. Now, may I say.

[D]

Something?

[A]

Yes. Okay, so you leave Earth orbit. You're in Earth orbit, you got to accelerate to leave Earth orbit. Certain. I don't remember exactly the figure, but you accelerate to Earth, then the Earth starts slowing you down.

[B]

Okay. At what point does it start slowing you down?

[A]

Exactly. As soon as you shut the engine.

[B]

Off.

[A]

Okay. Okay. But you're beyond advanced. You. You had enough velocity to get out of Earth orbit and go straight to the moon, or you got shot out in front. It's like being a shotgun shooter. Here's your. You're aiming this way, but here's the target. By the time you get there, you're in orbit. I mean, you get there. So you can get into orbit and. Lost my train of thought now, but what, what. So it was never a problem with us about being in the Van Allen Belts. You go through so fast, you don't get that much.

[B]

Resolution. So you guys never had a conversation about what trajectory to take through the Van Allen belts because they can be thinner at the top and they're wider at the. At like the.

[A]

Equator.

[B]

Right. So you guys never, like, decided we got to go through it at this angle or that.

[A]

Angle? We never. The crew had no.

[B]

Say. Got.

[A]

It. Mission Control, major.

[B]

Trajectory. And you weren't aware of it at all.

[A]

Either? Yeah, we knew when we were going through the Van Allen.

[B]

Belts. Oh, you did know when you were going through the Van Allen belts.

[A]

Okay. And I think that. I don't remember exactly, but we had decimeters in the spacecraft, and they must have read something, but I don't remember the. The.

[C]

Details. Okay, we have clip 14 of Kelly Smith of the Orion Project, which they said the radiation readings were classified. Here's a video of a new generation of NASA astronauts. We saw one saying they intentionally destroyed a technology for the first time in world history. And here we have the young guy in his 20s saying that their belts are dangerous radiation and the technology to go through them has not been invented.

[B]

Yet. And this is from 2004. This video is about to play us from 2014 during the build up to the Orion missions.

[C]

Right. MM.

[B]

D14. We are headed 3,600 miles above.

[C]

Earth, 15 times higher from the planet.

[B]

Than the International Space Station. As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen Belts, an area of dangerous radiation. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice. Once up and once back. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of.

[C]

Space. Okay. So he said we must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. So the radiation protection is a challenge that has yet to be resolved. We must solve these challenges in the future before we send people through this region of space. So the challenges of the radiation have not been resolved. And they must do it before they send people through this region of.

[A]

Space. So that right there never went to the.

[B]

Moon. What do.

[A]

You. No.

[B]

No. What do you make of that though? Like what, what do you make of that? This astronaut in 2014 saying that we have to solve the challenges of radiation before we send people to the Van Allen belts. What is your reaction to.

[A]

That? Through the Van Allen belts? Is that what he's.

[B]

Saying? Does he say.

[C]

Through?

[B]

Yes. No, he said into this.

[A]

Region? I believe he said, yeah, I wouldn't want to orbit in.

[C]

It. He said through this region of.

[B]

Space. Can you play it again? Can you say Play exactly what he says again. Do you say through or through? We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. Through this region of space is what he.

[C]

Said. Yeah. Onto the moon. The project is Orion, which intends to send people to the moon through this region of.

[B]

Space. Was Orion, was that the objective of Orion to send people to the.

[C]

Moon? That's right. It was the precursor to Armatus. So it's all about.

[B]

Google. What was the objective of the Orion missions? The objective of NASA's Orion mission was to transport human crews on deep space missions starting with a return, starting with a return to the moon under the Artemis program and eventually extending to Mars. Orion is designed to provide long duration crew support, protect astronauts from deep space radiation and handle high speed re entry into Earth's.

[C]

Atmosphere.

[D]

Okay. Mars makes more sense because you're going to be out there for way.

[C]

Longer. Well, look at.

[B]

Article. Well, he's talking about, he's talking.

[C]

About just through this region of space, which is the Van Allen Radiation.

[B]

Belt.

[C]

Yes. We must solve the radiation challenges, which means they're not solved. And then he says, before we send people through this region of space. So if they haven't been resolved yet, then the Apollo astronauts didn't go through them. Well, it says so right.

[B]

There. Definitely. It's definitely. I'm not saying that the astronauts never went to the moon. I'm not. I'm in the middle here. But it is very weird that a guy in 2014 would say we have to solve the problem of the Van Allen belts radiation before we go through. It's. It's odd.

[A]

Right? Sounds like to me as odd, but we did.

[B]

It.

[C]

Right. Okay, well, that's, that's why I'm saying you did not. Right.

[A]

Obviously. Where did 200 pounds of moon rocks come.

[C]

From? I just showed you. Von Braun picked him up from Antarctica. There's a picture of that on the Web. Picking up lunar meteorites before he went to the moon for the first time. Seems like a weird use of his time. Moon rocks have proven to be fake. And according to a contractor that I spoke to at length, he says NASA has ceramics lag which can mimic moon rocks. Now go to link 15 as we stay on the radiation. This is an article from Reuters that says radiation prevents travel to the moon. That's slide number.

[A]

15. Well, I walked on the moon. I don't know about anybody else.

[C]

But, John, you keep saying that. We know that. We've been saying it for 56 years. And you're not going to admit your guilt. Nobody who was, you know, brought to trial.

[B]

For. We're just trying to go through each piece of evidence and trying to rationally analyze what it means and let the audience decide. And a lot of this I realize you haven't even seen yet. Like, obviously you hadn't seen that video of that guy in 2014 saying, we have to solve these issues, but it's. It's weird. And that's the case he's making. This is. Some of these videos that we're playing are some of the reasons that people are questioning it. It. Go ahead, play.

[A]

It. Do you know how fast you're going when you leave Earth.

[B]

Orbit? How.

[A]

Fast?

[C]

Guess. Well, 25,000. You said 3,000 miles. You said 20,000. No, he.

[B]

Didn'T. He said, bart, Bart. He did not. He said that they were going 25. I think 25 or something like that, or 30 when they were leaving Earth orbit. And then they slow down and there's different speeds along the pathway along the.

[C]

Journey. Okay, well, let's read this article. Heading and what's.

[A]

Highlighted. You leave Earth orbit, I think it was 25,000 miles an hour. You accelerate to 25,000 miles an hour. You leave Earth orbit, and then from there on you start slowing.

[B]

Down.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. And then when you get to the moon, you celebrate because lunar gravity takes over and you accelerate. And so you're going too fast when you get there with you around and bring you home. So you put the engine in the front, right? And you. And you point in direction you've come from and you burn the engine. Six minutes or so to slow down to get into lunar.

[C]

Orbit. Okay, so at 25,000 miles an hour inside something 30,000 miles thick is over an.

[A]

Hour. You're not going that fast when you get to the.

[C]

Moon. Okay, but you said you went through the Van Allen radiation belt at.

[A]

25,000 miles an hour, but then you slow.

[C]

Down. Okay, but that's not the issue. The issue is you were inside the belt because they're 30,000 miles thick for over an hour. An hour and 15 minutes going to the moon and an hour and 15 minutes coming back. Would anyone survive getting an X ray for an hour and 15 minutes? Charlie survived. Well, well, first off, that's one of the reasons why he didn't read this article. What's keeping us from Mars? Space radiation says expert. You want to read that? Because you're blocking me. What does it.

[B]

Say? I can't see because of the.

[C]

Plaything. Go ahead, take it from the.

[B]

Top. And it, it says Washington, Reuters by. By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor, Cosmic. Okay. Cosmic rays are so dangerous and so poorly understood that people are unlikely to get to Mars or even back to the moon until better ways are found to protect astronauts. Experts said on.

[C]

Monday. So if the radiation is too severe to travel to the moon today with superior equipment, how did you go 50 years ago with inferior.

[A]

Equipment? We did.

[C]

It. Well, we know that you've been saying that. Do we know six.

[B]

Years. What, what are you aware of here? What are.

[C]

You. Which is proof you didn't go through the radiation.

[B]

Charlie? What sort of.

[A]

What? I went to the moon. We picked up moon.

[B]

Rocks. Was there any sort of special shielding or materials used on the exterior shell or the hull of the spacecraft to protect from radiation?

[A]

Nothing. Okay, I.

[C]

Remember. D16 is a quote from Van Allen who discovered the belts about the magnitude of the radiation. Play D16. Here's, here's the guy who discovered the belts. They're named after him. And read what he Says about the.

[B]

Radiation. Okay, this is from Dr. James Van Allen. He said this in 1959 time. Our measurements show. Can you hear me, Charlie? He said our measurements show that the maximum radiation levels as of 1958 is equivalent to between 10 and 100 rinkins per hour depending on the still undetermined proportions of protons and electrons. Since a human being exposed for two days to even 10 rotens would have only an even chance of survival, the radiation belts obviously present an obstacle to space.

[C]

Flight. And then read the bottom.

[B]

Part. But two, this has two days exposed for two days to even 10 Rokin. They were only in there for an hour. A little over an hour each way under underneath it. So okay, 10 to 100 rotkins per hour averages to about 10 to 100 roadkins per hour averages to 50 per hour. Okay. At the claimed speed of the Apollo craft. This. This is not James Van Allen saying this. This is somebody who else who's saying.

[C]

This? Well, this is the person who wrote the.

[B]

Article. Okay, so this person who wrote the article said that at claimed. At the claimed speed of the Apollo craft, this would be 2 hours in the radiation to the moon and 2 hours in the radiation back from the moon or 200 roadkins since 10 roadkins over 2 days will kill you, which is 0.2 rodkins per hour. The radiation belts are 250 times a lethal.

[C]

Dose. So that's one.

[B]

Reason. Okay, where can we. This is on your website. Where can we find.

[A]

This? What's the purpose of this.

[B]

Discussion? This is saying. This is. Bart is claiming that James Van Allen himself said that the amount of radiation that you would get traveling through the belts would kill you. He said this in.

[A]

1959. How fast would be.

[B]

He. He's.

[A]

Saying. How fast does he say we're.

[B]

Going? It doesn't. It just says the amount of time. He's talking about the amount of time. He's saying two.

[C]

Hours. Radiation is built based on strength and time of.

[B]

Exposure. So he's saying the Apollo.

[A]

Astronauts. How thick of the.

[B]

Belt? 30,000.

[A]

Miles. The. The Van Allen belt is 30,000 miles.

[B]

Thick. Yes. Google it. Let's Google it. How thick are the Van Allen radiation belt?

[C]

Steve? It may be more than that. They keep claiming they discovered extra layers of it that actually add to the.

[A]

Thickness. So I'm supposed to be.

[C]

Dead. Allegedly went through the belt. But let's check his.

[A]

Pulse. So we. So we didn't go through the brown Allen.

[B]

Belt. Let's see.

[C]

Okay. According to Kelly Smith, you did not this sol challenges before you Go.

[B]

Through. The thickness of the Van Allen belts varies. The inner belt is from. Okay, don't tell me all this. Okay, this says the outer belt is for 8,000 to 37,000 miles. So they fluctuate, but at the maximum, 37,000 miles thick. So that means you guys would have had over two hours of, of exposure to the.

[D]

Belts. Did James that the Van Allen belts, did he say that the radiation.

[B]

Belt. Well, this is Google AI. It's going to be.

[C]

Biased. Yeah, I mean, how does it know Lincoln was the 16th president? It was programmed to say.

[D]

That.

[B]

Right? It's reading around the world.

[C]

Now. Now the next.

[B]

Issue. This is anecdotal stuff, but like we have to acknowledge that the vast majority of anyone writing about the Apollo missions or any government agency is going to say that James Van Allen didn't say this. And Google AI is pulling from this overwhelming amount of stuff that's written.

[C]

Online. So, so that's, that's one reason why they can't leave Earth orbit. And another reason is they don't have enough fuel. And my book, Moon man, on page 149, here's von Braun saying it himself. There's not enough fuel to leave Earth.

[B]

Orbit. Let's hear, let's.

[C]

Hear. It's commonly believed that men will fly directly from the Earth to the moon. But to do this, we would require a vehicle of such gigantic proportions that it would prove an economic impossibility. Calculations have been carefully worked out on the type of vehicle we would need for the non stop flight from Earth to the moon and return. The figures speak for themselves. Mathematically. Three rockets would be necessary and each ship would be taller than the Empire State Building. 100 stories. Apollo rocket was about 30 stories and weigh about 10 times the tonnage of the Queen Mary, or 800,000 tons times three. The Saturn 5 weighed 2,500 tons. That's a difference of 30,000% times three. Now go to clip 18 and you'll see that Elon Musk just.

[B]

Said. All right, Bart, pause. Where, where, where did you get that quote? Quote.

[C]

From? It's from his book Voyage to the Moon, written by Von.

[B]

Braun. Is there a way we can find that quote on the.

[C]

Internet? Probably. I mean we, we got. Pub bought an old copy of his.

[B]

Book.

[C]

Okay. And it was written by him and quoted by.

[B]

Him. Okay, so if it's on the.

[A]

Internet, what's the purpose of this.

[C]

Discussion? You don't.

[B]

Know? The purpose of this discussion is.

[A]

That we didn't go to the.

[B]

Moon. Allegedly. You're.

[C]

Just. If you're acting like you don't know it just proved that you're acting during the interview. So he's not the only one who said you need multiple field trips to go to the.

[B]

Moon. So Von Braun, he's saying. Von Braun himself was quoted saying that the Apollo missions would need multiple.

[C]

Fueled three rockets, each one 30,000% heavier than the Saturn 5.

[B]

Rocket.

[C]

Yeah. And then Elon Musk said about six months ago, if you go to clip 18, he said the Starship, which is three stories taller than the Apollo rocket and with the boosters on the side, carries twice the fuel as the Apollo rocket. He says it will take 15 launches or the equivalent of 30 Saturn 5 rockets in order to leave Earth orbit. We even have a video clip of Von Braun saying everything, the best rocket he can build can only leave Earth.

[B]

Orbit. Let's, let's, let's play that clip. Let's play the clip of Von Braun from the horse's mouth. Let's get what he said saying, what clip number is that? So Steve can find.

[D]

It. What.

[C]

Clip? That one. I, I didn't.

[B]

Include. But how can we find.

[C]

It? Just go to sabrell.com. it's one of the links of the, of the.

[A]

Book. Understand this. I don't understand this.

[B]

Conversation. I understand. I understand that's your position, that you did it and, and you went and you walked in the moon and you brought back the moon rocks. But why would Von Braun say that, that it was impossible to get to the moon without multiple fuel.

[A]

Trips? I don't know. I don't. I never heard him say.

[B]

That. Well, we got a video.

[C]

Allegedly. Okay, well, and look at. When did he look at the clip of Elon.

[B]

Musk? I want to see the clip of Von Braun. Show us where to find the Von Braun clip. Let's stick to one.

[D]

Thing. He doesn't have.

[C]

It. Well, it's. If you go to. And then go to Moon man links for the one that looks like old 1950s color. And there's one of Von Braun. I don't know what clip it is, but in the meantime, while you're doing.

[B]

That. No, no, wait, you're, you're going. You're getting too far ahead of yourself. We're here. Now where do we.

[C]

Go? Scroll down. Keep scrolling. Let's keep going. Keep.

[B]

Going. Maybe you can find it on YouTube or.

[C]

Something. Yeah, I decided not to bring it. But Von Braun says the largest rocket that we can build, it's with Disney film, can only achieve Earth orbit. He says it it word for word and A quote from my book. And now we have Elon Musk. If you go to the clip of these 18, he's saying the very same thing. Look at D18. Read this headline and read the highlighted.

[B]

Part. Okay, this is a headline from space policy online dot com. Okay? At least 15 Starship launches needed to execute the Artemis 3 lunar landing. SpaceX will need to launch at least 15 Starships to execute the Artemis 3 lunar landing dot NASA said today. So. NASA said so. SpaceX will need 15 Starships to execute. It says NASA, right? And Starship, they.

[C]

Cannot. Twice the.

[B]

Fuel. Starship cannot fly directly to the moon, but must refuel in Earth orbit before setting out for deep.

[C]

Space. Yeah, that's what the clip of. Von Braun says that I didn't include.

[A]

It.

[C]

That. That you can go to the moon if you do multiple trips of fuel and ferry the fuel first. And now go. You're going to love this next clip. Go to clip 19. This was said less than a year ago by a rocket scientist who works with NASA, and he says it's going to take possibly more than 15 trips of fuel in order to leave Earth orbit and go to the.

[A]

Mountain. So we didn't do it. It. It's what you're.

[C]

Saying. I don't know why you're acting.

[B]

Surprised. Go ahead.

[C]

Play. You're disproving your acting. You know, you. You came in here and reminded me of a phone call we had 20 years ago when I said, I have proof we didn't go to the moon. When I found the footage, just.

[B]

Go, so who's this.

[C]

Guy? And how people communicate about it. Like, there's some architecture problems that people are unwilling to talk about these days because of how they got there politically. And I was like, you know what? I just want to go say the thing that nobody's saying. So that's what I decided to do. Now, a lot of people I respect when I was doing my research and asking these questions, they said, be careful, Destin, if you say certain things, this might change your relationship with NASA forever. And I thought about it and I decided, you know what? This is the truth and this is what needs to be said. I did not understand until this.

[D]

Week when I really thought I was.

[B]

Going to embarrass myself in front of.

[D]

You guys and then decided to further embarrass myself in front of you.

[C]

Guys. I didn't realize that in order.

[D]

To get the human lander to the.

[C]

Moon, we have to launch a bunch.

[D]

Of additional rockets to tank up in low Earth.

[C]

Orbit. I didn't Know that? And I'm like, well, how many rockets do we have to do that.

[B]

With? And they're like.

[C]

Six. And then I start, because.

[B]

I. Who is.

[C]

This? He's a rocket scientist building rockets for.

[B]

NASA. What's his.

[C]

Name? I don't.

[B]

Know. That's would be important.

[D]

That. That guy. He's a YouTuber. Is. He has a channel called Smarter Every.

[B]

Day. Smarter every day on.

[C]

YouTube. Okay. So he's saying it's going to take.

[B]

Multiple. Let's finish playing the.

[C]

Video. I know people. I start calling people. I was like, dude, really, how many rockets is.

[B]

It? They're like, well, boil.

[D]

Off. And.

[C]

Okay. So I was like, some people are like, well, it's looking like eight. I was like, eight rockets. We have to fire eight rockets to fire one rocket to the moon. Then they're like, I mean, that's what they're saying, but it's probably more like 12, really. And then I was like, you know, I'm an engineer. I know how to do this.

[D]

Stuff. So I started to account for like nominal schedule slip and boil off. And this is how many rockets.

[C]

It'S going to take to fuel up that thing to get it to the moon. I've done the.

[B]

Math. If you had any.

[C]

Questions. I found the Von braun clip. It's D17 there.

[B]

Steve.

[C]

Okay. Von Braun says the biggest rocket you can build can only achieve Earth orbit. You need multiple fuel trips to go to the moon. Okay, says it on camera as well as in.

[B]

Print. All right, this will be good for Charlie to see. Charlie, watch this.

[A]

One here to.

[C]

Reveal a plan for a trip around.

[B]

The moon is a chief of the guided missile development at the United States.

[C]

United States Army's Redstone Arsenal, Dr. Werner von Braun. A voyage around the moon must be made in two phases. A rocket ship taking off from the Earth's surface will use almost all the fuel it can carry just to.

[A]

Attain a speed great enough to balance the pull of.

[C]

Gravity. Unpowered, it will then keep circling the Earth in an orbit outside of the atmosphere. This is a first phase. However, if we can refuel the ship in this orbit with fuel brought up by cargo rocket ships, it can set out on the second phase, the trip around the moon and back. So three people just said, Von Braun said it twice, that you have to make ferried fuel trips to have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit. You had him say it on camera. You had Elon Musk say it, and you had a rocket scientist building rockets for NASA saying it. He also said, I just discovered this because he is taking the Apollo launches on faith. You know, my bank web web page says that my money is backed by the faith and the United States government that kills their own presidents, kills their own soldiers, and fakes moon landings.

[B]

Right. So, so, Charlie, what do you make of that video of Von Braun saying that, that you would need to refuel in Earth orbit to get all the way to the moon because it would take, he said it would take all the fuel in the rocket to get that orbit around the Earth and then you would need to refuel again before going to the.

[A]

Moon. I've never heard that before. Actually, they built a Saturn V and the Saturn V lifted off and the third stage, you stayed attached to the third stage and you were on the front end with that, with the command model service module, lunar module, you fired out of Earth orbit and you started waving the moon. So that's the end of The Saturn V.

[B]

S4B.

[A]

Okay. Okay. It's, it opened up the pedals opened up and exposed the lunar module. You separated the command service module and then beneath it, these flowers opened up and they exposed the top of the lunar module. So you'd made a 180 degree turn and you came back in and you joined up with the top of the lunar module. That was the docking ring. You, you docked, you latched all the latches, made sure you were connected correctly. You hit a switch, you hit a switch and you, of some sort and it released the lunar module. And then you just backed it out with your reaction control system in the command service module. And, and then, so that was a condition. You went to the moon in a barbecue sometimes in a barbecue with the lunar module attached. And we went into it to check it out, make sure there was no leaks, this and that and the other. And, but then we closed it back up again. And then we didn't go in again until we got into lunar orbit. We got into lunar orbit and John and I, I, I was the first one in and I put on my spacesuit, except for helmets and gloves, and took those with me. And then we went into the lunar module and I started powering up and that, I forgot exactly how long that took, but it was several revolutions and John came in and when we got ready, we put on our helmets and gloves and, and pressurized to make sure these, everything was pressurized, the suits, to make sure everything was okay. And when everything passed, we just, I forgot whether Mattingly hit the button or we hit. It was Mattingly and he just released us and we just backed.

[C]

Off. Well, Von Braun in my book Moon man, he said that these numbers are mathematically irrefutable. The numbers speak for themselves. Things become more fuel efficient over time. So it's taking a tremendous amount of more fuel to go to the moon now than in 1969. Von Braun said it's impossible twice. Once in writing, once on camera. Elon Musk with a rocket that carries twice the fuel of the Apollo rocket says that you cannot go unless you make 15 fuel trips first, which is an equivalent of 30 Saturn V rockets. And we just heard a rocket scientist say he may get in trouble with NASA for saying this, but it's going to take 15, 20 up to, you know, 28. I counted all of them in the graphic. 28 clips to go to the ships to go to the moon. The next three clips I have are people like Kelly Smith and Don Pettit, modern day astronauts. And they say the farthest they can go is Earth orbit. This is clip D20. And they hope to eventually go to the moon. Play D20. It's.

[A]

Bart. When it comes to the. What's the point of this discussion? We did not go to the.

[C]

Moon. You're just digging your hole deeper every time you say that.

[B]

General. So Bart, when it comes.

[A]

To. Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, so Apollo was all faked.

[B]

According to Bart, yes, it was all faked. It was a big propaganda campaign during the Cold.

[A]

War. And so we had 260 something pounds of moon rocks that were brought back. They're all.

[B]

Faked. I guess Bart hasn't, hasn't seen them, hasn't analyzed.

[C]

Them. Yeah, you remembered word for word a telephone conversation we had 20 years ago. And at the beginning not recorded. And somehow you can't remember what we said a half an hour ago, that the moon rocks are fake. We showed an article. Von Braun picked up hundreds of pounds in Antarctica right before the Apollo mission. And according to a contractor, they can manufacture the them. Go to clip.

[A]

D20. Just let me make. I was in delusion for two weeks. I was on the moon for three.

[C]

Days. Well, you said you have top.

[A]

Secret. Just a minute. And I picked up 200. I think we picked up a couple of hundred pounds of moon rocks and we brought them back. They've been analyzed. They're moon rocks. And so I don't understand the purpose of this discussion. What? Why are we going back and saying Apollo was a.

[C]

Fake? Why does an Apollo astronaut have top secret.

[A]

Clearance? I didn't have top secret.

[C]

Clearance. Oh, okay. I thought you said that.

[A]

Clip. I mean, I. We had nothing On Apollo, that was classified. That's. But I did have a clearance from a military, my military time when I was before NASA and I did have a top secret clearance.

[C]

Then. Okay, okay. Clip D20 is a modern day shuttle astronaut saying the farthest they can go is Earth orbit and they hope to eventually go to the moon.

[D]

D20. D20. Let me.

[B]

Look. So when it comes to the evolution of rockets and technology, it's not necessarily that the, the Saturn rocket would be impossible to make, like it wouldn't be physically impossible, but an argument would be that it's logistically impossible because today in 2025, we don't have the same machines, we don't have the same talents, we don't have the same trades that we had that were available in the.

[C]

1960S because they destroyed.

[B]

It. The world has evolved, has evolved. We do things differently now. Objectives have changed. Now we're focusing on building reusable rockets. So the Saturn was not a reusable rocket. Right. So now we're trying to save money developing a new style of rocket. So that would be a compelling argument to why we haven't gone back to the moon is because we build rockets differently because the objectives have.

[C]

Changed. Well, all I know is what Elon Musk says, for a rocket that can carry twice the fuel of the Saturn V Apollo rocket, it's going to take 15 launches to a fuel station first in order to have enough fuel to leave Earth orbit to go to the moon. He said it. The rocket scientist just said it. Von Braun said it on camera. Von Braun said it in writing. And we're about to look at a shuttle astronaut who says the farthest they can go with the technology we have is Earth orbit and they hope to eventually go to the moon. That's clip D21. It's real.

[D]

Short. So that's, that's smarter every, every day. That's that YouTuber, that smarter everyday YouTuber. He was the. Out of context, it sounds the way it does, but he was. Here, I'll pop it up.

[B]

Here.

[D]

Okay. So he was, his name is Destin and he was talking about how poorly planned the current moon mission is that they. And he was pointing out that this particular starship ship, hls, which is the return rocket, it's this thingy right here. It is so heavy that their, their plan isn't going to work out. And so he did the math with the current weight and, and he's. And that's why he said it's not going to work out. You need all these rockets. So here's the weight of this thing that they want to.

[B]

Build. This is a different, a different.

[D]

Rocket. This is the one that they haven't built yet, but they want to. It's a hundred tons. Okay, and then the original Apollo lander was 33, 000. No, no, no, the moon.

[B]

Lander. Oh, the moon lander was 35, 000. 33, 000.

[D]

Pounds.

[C]

33,000. Talking about the rocket to leave.

[B]

Earth? No, no, he's talking about the.

[D]

Lander. This is the lander. So to have a sad rocket carry just 35, 000 pounds is nothing. That rocket cannot carry 100.

[B]

Tons. So what is this? The dry, empty weight of the starship human landing system is approximately 100 tons. So they're saying that this rocket would need to carry something that's a hundred tons compared to the Apollo lander, which was 33, 000.

[C]

Pounds. Yeah, that's the, That's. If I hadn't.

[B]

Gotten. That's an important, important.

[C]

Context. Well, Von Braun, I don't know anyone who knows more about it than.

[B]

Von Braun was talking about. 33, 000 pound Lander. The, the. With this astronaut that you just showed us talking about, talking about all the refueling. You have to understand the context that the lander that they're talking about shooting off into the moon was a hundred tons, according to this. Well, that would make sense to.

[C]

The moon in 57 years. I would go just as efficiently as humanly possible. And for the first time in history, technology was destroyed. The lunar module schematics, the original.

[B]

Video. Right, We've talked about this. It's all been destroyed.

[C]

Right. Again, you don't do that unless you're covering your tracks. And we have Elon Musk saying it's going to take 15 ships. You have that guy saying it's going to take up to 28. You had Von Braun say, okay, Von Braun was the designer of the Saturn V rocket. He says it's going to take multiple fuel trips to go to the moon. If that's what it takes today, then that's what it would take then, despite the design. Because Von Braun was talking about the lunar module. He's the one who ended up designing all of that stuff. And he says that equipment, well, is going to take multiple field trips to leave Earth.

[B]

Orbit. Right. But again, this thing weighs a hundred tons they're trying to bring to the moon. So back then, when Charlie went to the moon, allegedly the goal was to beat Russia, right? All they cared about was getting man on the moon. To show the world that America was the number, was the world leader in technology and science and, and was and was more superior to Russia. Right. You could, you could make the argument that the primary goal of the Apollo missions was to just show the world that we're better and just show that we can actually physically put a human being on the.

[C]

Moon. You're right. It was a show.

[B]

Now. Right, right. Doesn't mean it would had to have been.

[C]

Fake.

[B]

It. What it could mean is that we just wanted to get people on the moon. No matter what, we could do it with the most efficient light equipment possible. Now, if we wanted to go back today in 2025, we would have a different objective. We would want to get more done. It wouldn't just be about putting a person on the moon and broadcasting that to the world. It would be about something far greater, like populating the moon or something like this. So it would require different technology, it would require bringing different things to the moon, and it would also require maybe not taking such a risk. Right. Like they. Obviously, that was a big risk going there in 69, bringing human beings there today. Today. You could argue that we wouldn't want to make that level of a.

[C]

Risk. Okay, so in writing and on camera, Von Braun talking about the future Apollo rocket. The first rocket to go to the moon. That's the one he was designing. That's the one. He said it would take three rockets weighing 30,000% more than the Saturn V rocket. That's what he said on camera. The first rocket to the moon, which is the one they claim they used, it can only go into Earth orbit, and then it would take multiple fuel trips in order to go to the moon. That's the first one, not the current one. Right. Then we have also Elon Musk saying multiple fuel trips. We have that guy saying multiple field trips. That's for, you know, whatever spacecraft just to get there and land. It's going to take all of that fuel, multiple fuel trips. They set it back before the Apollo rocket and they're saying it to, quote, return to the moon. Okay, and clip D20 is a space shuttle astronaut saying Earth orbit is their limit. That's why they're faking being halfway to the moon. And that clip we showed for radiation. Okay, we must solve these challenges before we go through that region of space. Here's an astronaut in clip 20 saying the farthest they can go with current technology as Earth orbit, and they hope to eventually go to the.

[B]

Moon. Okay, let's watch it. 30.

[C]

Seconds. Right now, we only can fly in Earth orbit. That's the farthest that we can go. And this new system that we're building is going to allow us to go beyond and hopefully take humans into the solar system to explore. So the moon, Mars, asteroids. The moon, Mars, asteroids. Asteroids. The moon, Mars, asteroids. There's a lot of destinations that we could go to. And we're building these building block components in order to allow us to do that eventually. Eventually. Eventually, right, yeah. He says eventually go to the Moon. And he's not the only one. There's two other short clips. I mean, if he's misspeaking, then we have three people misspeaking. The next one says, this is the beginning of humans leaving Earth orbit. That's clip D21. The beginning of Earth, of humans leaving Earth orbit, is what this astronaut says. Clip.

[B]

21.

[C]

Okay. But we're also really pushing the boundaries in terms of where we're going forward with exploration. I think humans are naturally driven to do this. And this is really the beginning. The beginning. The beginning, I think, of human.

[A]

Beings leaving low Earth.

[C]

Orbit. And the next clip is from about, I think about four months ago, an astronaut for the Artemis program saying, this is going to be the first time we send humans to the moon. Even says before it, you got to pay attention. You may not like this. Or words to the effect that the other guy said, okay, this is the.

[B]

Last. The last clip we're going to play on this topic, then we're going to move to the next.

[C]

One. Sure, that's how I have it. Okay, this is going to be an odd answer. It might. It might hit. It might land wrong, But I'm going to try anyway to find. This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon. This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon. This is the first time we're going to send humans to the moon.

[B]

Even. What did he say after that? You cut it out. What did he say after.

[C]

That? Well, he went on talking and they passed the microphone back and.

[B]

Forth. Yeah, but how do you.

[C]

Know? Three.

[B]

Hours. How do you know he didn't. How do the viewers know that he didn't say in 53 years or something like that? Like you.

[C]

Just. Oh, no, he didn't. You can find.

[B]

It. We'll take your word for it, I.

[C]

Guess. But I mean, I listen to it just. They passed the microphone around, even said something to the words of the effect, this may rock the boat of the audience or whatever, something like.

[B]

That. Okay, all right, I want to talk about the micro meteorites. What was the threat level of, like the micro meteorites when you were on the Moon? Because from what I understand is there are. There's a high risk of being hit by micro meteorites right when you're on the surface of the.

[A]

Moon. We had. If they saw a solar flare. The only thing I remember, if we had a solar flare, we would have to get back into the lunar module and lift off and then join up and point the heat shield towards the solar flare. I don't remember anything about.

[B]

Micrometeorites. There was no discussion or no warnings about trying to.

[A]

Mitigate. No.

[B]

Mitigate.

[C]

Micrometer. Von Braun's book, the one that has the quote, which is called Voyage to the Moon, he says that micrometeorites would cause a catastrophic or fatal error. 50% chance. Every 24 hours, thousands of them hit the moon every second. He says you'd have to immediately go into a lead shelter or a cave on the moon. He said it would cause death 50% of the.

[A]

Time.

[C]

Time. Every 24 hours. There's so many of.

[A]

Them. Well, we made it a lot longer than that.

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah. Nobody.

[C]

Yeah. With somehow 16 tanks of oxygen in that little backpack in order to be out there for eight hours at a time. To me, this is one of the most striking examples of why the moon landings are fake. If you look at D23, this is the.

[B]

Shadows. Okay. Let's.

[C]

See. I'm a.

[B]

Filmmaker. The shadows.

[C]

Okay. My job as a filmmaker is to make fake scenes look.

[B]

Real.

[C]

Yeah. I use lighting to mimic the sun all the time. Fooled other filmmakers. They thought it was the sunset, but it was really a light. You can prove that the moon landings are fake with this one picture because the sun, being about a thousand times bigger in diameter than the Earth, cast shadows in the same direction over the entire Earth or moon. They're always parallel. It's mathematically and scientifically impossible possible for shadows to intersect in sunlight. As you can tell in the photograph on the left. The photograph on the right is allegedly from the last mission to the moon, where an astronaut shadow goes at 12 o' clock and a rock about 5ft away goes at 9.

[E]

O'.

[C]

Clock. That's a 90 degree difference from objects 5ft apart, indicating that at least two electrical lights are being used. You can even see a hot spot around the top. So if you want to prove the moon landing is fake, you can prove it in one photograph. The photograph on the right cannot be duplicated in sunlight. It's supposed to be 20 times brighter with no atmosphere. There's no need for electrical lighting. But obviously the one on the right was lit with electrical lighting. The shadows should be parallel. They're intersecting at 90 degrees from objects five feet apart. That would prove it in a court of law as well as the footage we have of them being faking being halfway to the moon, that they didn't go to the moon. That's all the proof you need. It's right there. People can deny it. I talked to a college professor who teaches aerospace at one of the university's most famous one in America. He says if Neil Armstrong confessed on national TV that the moon missions were fake, he'd still think he walked on the moon anyway. People deny the evidence over and over again. They made a God out of it. You can change the hat on who shot JFK and why. You can change the hat on who did 9, 11 and why. It's still a tragedy. This is a positive lie, and people do not want to give it up. I got an email from Carl Sagan's associate who told me privately that he believed the moon landings were fake, but he was afraid to say it publicly because of it being politically incorrect. And Carl Sagan said this. One of the saddest lessons of history is this. If we've been bamboozled or lied to long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan like the federal government power over you, you almost never get it back. And Mark Twain said it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. The problem? This is a positive lie. This is giving candy to a child and trying to take it away. And people keep defending the people who are ripping them off because our tax dollars went into paying the salaries of the CIA agents that killed the Apollo 1.

[B]

Crew. On the shadows. You can get shadows to angle towards each other in sunlight. It's a fact. You can do it depending on your. Your focal length of the lens and how far away you are from the objects. With one single light source, it. You can very easily make it appear as if shadows are.

[C]

Aiming. It's not a light source. It's the.

[B]

Sun. The sun. Correct. You can do that with the.

[C]

Sun. I'd like to see.

[B]

It. All.

[C]

Right. We could go outside or whatever, but. And, and you're right about the lens. This is a 50 millimeter.

[B]

Lens. Okay, let's watch this. This is, this is by the everyday astronaut. He made a, he made a.

[C]

Video. People who believe we went to.

[B]

Them. All right, well, you're the people who believe we didn't go to the moon. Right? So we. This is a fair shake. Yeah, Shadow.

[C]

Argument. Yeah. Let me, let me say this, okay. If they went to the moon, even though it can't be repeated 50 years later by no nation on Earth and they can only go 1000th of far now despite five decades. Right. I understand this. No, but here's the overall.

[B]

Point. I understand the overall point.

[C]

Okay? I understand if they went to the moon, then the amount of evidence I have is zero. And yet if you look up moon Fraud, you get 1001 YouTube videos by people who were deceived, who have made a God out of the moon land them. Who, if they, if I went around saying Mickey Mouse was the first President of the United States, you think there'd be a thousand videos to disprove me? The reason why there are is because there's so much emerging proof that the moon missions are fake and they're scrambling to somehow justify all the condemning evidence. Like OJ's defense attorney. No matter what evidence is presented, they have some excuse for.

[B]

It. Sure, sure. Okay, we're going to watch this video of the everyday astronaut discussing the lunar shadows. Let's full screen this because I think this is very compelling and this is. Go.

[E]

Ahead. What seems like inconsistent shadows is a common thing for people to point to as suspect of a hoax for this. Let's take a look at this photograph that some people question. Saying it was shot in a studio and is proof the Apollo landings were fake. It's from Apollo 17 magazine. 136 frame 20,744 shot on one of the iconic Hasselblad 500 EL6X6 medium format cameras with a Zeiss 60 millimeter f 5.6 lens by astronaut Harrison Jack Schmidt at mission elapsed time of 122:32:50 in the Taurus Littrow Valley. The claim here is that these shadows appear to be coming together, proving there to be multiple sources of light or perhaps a light that's far too close. Certainly not the sun that's millions of kilometers away. This is one of the easiest things to demonstrate on your own. All we have to do is go out when the sun is fairly low in the sky about 15 degrees above the horizon to match the lighting conditions in the, in the photo. Then we need A lens that would be 35 millimeters on a full frame camera or a 35 millimeter equivalent lens, since the 60 millimeter lens on a medium format camera is equal to about 38 millimeters. So to get the same perspective and angle of view, we'll want to aim for, you know, 35 mil or 40 milli colors. Then we just need our camera to be placed roughly mid chest to match where the Hasselblads will.

[B]

Mount. Little play, Little.

[E]

Play. On the A7LB spacesuits, it's pretty obvious that all shadows appear to point inwards towards the center of the of the photo. The further left or right an object is, the more this is exaggerated. And honestly, this is perhaps one of the most elementary of all things. They appear this way because of perspective, the exact same way parallel train tracks or roads appear to converge. And to prove these shadows are indeed parallel, let's just fly up and look down to confirm that they're indeed straight and parallel. Now, ironically, conspiracy theories claim something exactly backwards. They say shadows appear to converge because it's a close studio spotlight that is roughly 10ft behind the subject. But the closer a light source is to the camera, the more the shadows appear to line up with the camera's field of view. So the shadows actually become less and less visible to the vantage point of the camera. They diverse the closer the light source is. Again, this is kind of photography 101 stuff. Now, it's often claimed that there are multiple sources of light, and that's why the shadows appear to be in different directions. But the reality is that multiple sources of light will produce multiple shadows on a single subject. And actually, the lighting on the surface of the moon would be virtually impossible to replicate in a studio, even with limitless funds and the most advanced solutions in the world. Because notice that in all the images, the entire surface of the moon is equally lit. Since we don't see multiple shadows, you couldn't use multiple sources of light to try and evenly light the scenes, let alone mountains that are several kilometers away from the camera. And light follows the inverse square law. If you move an object twice as far away from a light source, it'll receive one quarter the amount of light. So imagine trying to light a scene where everything is evenly lit and you don't see multiple shadows. Your light source would have to be several kilometers away, maybe hundreds or millions of kilometers away, and it would have to be unbelievably bright. Or perhaps, you know, it could just be the sun. And while we're talking about shadows.

[C]

Go back Toward the beginning of the video where he's trying to mimic the picture that I showed where there's that little L bracket that's painted white which is supposed to represent the.

[B]

Rock.

[C]

Yeah. Okay, go.

[B]

There.

[C]

Okay. Make that full frame frame. Okay. The. The shadow of the little L bracket or whatever it is, is not intersecting at 90 degrees. It's not pointing at 9.

[B]

O'.

[C]

Clock. And the. In the picture that they claim was on the moon, it is. Put them side by side. Plus he's using a wide angle lens, which is the type of lens they use in a drone. A wide angle lens. No, no, that's not a drone right there. Causes a little bit of a curvature in the.

[D]

Picture. The rock is not pointing 90 degrees, though. Though. Well, the top of the rock is like right.

[B]

Here. The top of the rock goes up like that and it's. It's projecting that way. It just looks wider because the.

[D]

Rock is wider right there, like poking out right there. It makes it look like.

[C]

It'S. Well, I mean, compare it with the. With the 1. Move this over to the left and put it side by.

[B]

Side. Yeah, it's the same exact.

[C]

Thing. They're not. They're not. The shadows are not going the same direction. Okay. He's trying to mimic the archer going the same.

[B]

Direction.

[C]

Bar. This is sunlight. And they are not intersecting in the same way in the picture that they claim on the moon. It's not. He's making excuses. But if you look at them side by side, the object that's representing the rock, the shadow, is going a completely different.

[B]

Direction. Play that. That YouTube video again. Play it from where it is. Pause it right.

[A]

There.

[B]

There. Go back where it shows the. Okay. It looks like those two shadows are pointing in towards each other. It does not look like they are going in the same direction as his shadow. It looks like they're pointing in towards.

[C]

Him. Well, the point is they're trying to mimic the picture that he just showed. He showed the picture that I showed right before this. The big shadow in the middle is supposed to be the astronaut, and the little white L bracket is supposed to be the rock. But the shadow is not going all the way to the left at 9 o', clock. The same as in the.

[B]

Picture. But why are they converging? Why are the shadows from the. From the bracket and that helmet or whatever it is, why are they.

[C]

Converging in and his shadow intersecting? If you follow the trajectory, it.

[B]

Would absolutely intersect with his shadow. If you kept. If you.

[C]

Kept. Well, again, it's a wide Angle lens that makes the picture curve. Not a 50 millimeter lens, which is completely different. Look at my picture again. Parallel shadows. That's how it should look. Okay. The one on the left, taken with the 50 millimeter lens. They don't.

[B]

Converge. I understand what you're saying about the rock. It looks.

[C]

Like. It looks like those shadows intersect in a few feet. You're. According to that wide angle lens, they would converge or come together at some point in the great.

[B]

Distance. Distance. Bart, that rock on the top right, the shadow is not projecting to the left. The shadow is projecting behind it. But the bottom, the base of the rock touching the ground is more narrow than the top of the rock. It gets wider as it goes out, which from our perspective, makes it look like the shadow is going that way, when in fact, the shadow is just wider because the light is shooting that way. The shadow's projecting that way, but the shadow is wider than the base of the rock, which makes it look like it's going that way, but it's not. It's like an optical.

[C]

Illusion. Well, that person has said there's no evidence that can ever be presented that will make him deny the authenticity of the Moon missions. So let's.

[B]

Look. You said the exact.

[C]

Opposite. No, no, I proved that. I. That I can change my mind because I went from being the greatest fan to the greatest skeptic. If you look at clip 27, we're talking about the.

[B]

Pictures.

[C]

Okay? But this is the smartest AI in the world that has a deep fake detector program that has never been wrong. Not available to the public. Clip 27. It can tell whether a video of Biden or Trump is a deep fake in one second. It's never been wrong. It can analyze pixels in the foreground and see whether the background is fake if the pixel is lined up up. The smartest AI in the.

[B]

World.

[C]

Yes. Just said all the Apollo pictures were.

[B]

Fake. Okay, I agree. I. We'll look at that. But can you concede that what.

[C]

We'Re looking at, it's not a duplicate? It's not. I mean, can you concede going completely different? The one on the left from Apollo 17, they intersect in about 2ft. The one on the right, they would eventually come to a point somewhere down the path. And that's simply because it shot shot with the wide angle lens. The one on the left of sunlight all the way to the left is not a wide angle lens. And so you see, they don't seem to converge in a point, because they actually.

[B]

Don'T. Right. But if you had a light source that was closer than the sun and smaller than the sun that would not make the shadows intersect. Do you understand.

[C]

That? Well, Steve, last time I was here duplicated the Apollo 17 two electrical lights because that's how it was taken with two electrical.

[B]

Lights. Light. Do you understand that? If you have. And Steve, tell me if I'm, if I'm full of shift, I'm wrong here. If you have two objects and one light source close to the objects versus compared to a light source that's thousands of miles away, would the closer light source make the shadows go out or make it go.

[D]

In? It would make them go out.

[B]

Out. Correct. So it's not possible that it was a closer light source because of closer light source would not make the shadows.

[A]

Converge.

[C]

But. Well, I've been a, I've won best cinematography and I say that the picture on the, that they claim is on the moon was taken with an electrical light. And Steve, who believes we went to the moon last time, duplicated the shadows with two electrical lights. That's how it was taken and that's how Steve duplicated. Okay, now let's, let's forget our.

[B]

Opinion. I think the shadow of the.

[C]

Smartest AI in the.

[B]

World. I think this is the worst piece of evidence because I think this is easily blown out of the.

[C]

Water. Well, well, I disagree. Let's look at what the smartest AI in the world thinks about the shadows. Well, about the pictures. He said every Apollo picture the AI I'm assuming it's. He said that they had fake backdrops. Play the clip D27 where Putin was at this conference, the AI conference of two years ago in Moscow. They were allowed to play with this AI that's not available to the public. Ten AIs scromed together and it said the Apollo pictures were fake. So either Google's 1 billion dollar 10 year investment produced a stupid AI or the pictures of.

[B]

Fake. Now can we use the AI ourselves and ask it and get the.

[C]

Answer? That's not available to the public. It was available at this.

[D]

Conference. How, how.

[B]

Long? Okay, let's watch the.

[C]

Clip. Watch clip.

[D]

27. Well, how, how long ago was the clip.

[C]

Conference? Two years.

[B]

Ago. Two years ago. So 2023. 2023. So there will be no bias. It's surprising, but it does believe so the neural network has analyzed a lot of data including light and dark contrast etc and then it believes the photo is.

[C]

Synthetic and it can very interesting. It compared the photos to the Chinese landers that landed in 2018 and it was fed Pictures of them, of the lunar surface. It said they were.

[B]

Real. Okay. Where did you get this.

[D]

Video?

[C]

Video? I don't remember where it came from, but it. I got it off the Internet about two years.

[B]

Ago. Look, I. What you're saying is compelling to me, but when you're bringing hardcore evidence like this to prove something so incredible, I mean, you have to have a little bit more than just a video with no.

[C]

Source. Well, actually, it got it inverted. He's the one who claims on a. On the moon, where only people with top secret clearance are there, where there's no independent press coverage, and we have to trust the federal government. What happened on the moon, that's. That's the preposterous.

[B]

Claim. I.

[C]

Understand. That needs to be.

[B]

Made. Correct. Yes. I would agree with you there as well, but what I want. What I'm trying to say is in order for me to believe you, I can't just watch clips that you don't have the source for and that we also can't corroborate.

[A]

Ourselves.

[C]

Putin. You didn't recognize it was Putin.

[B]

But we don't know what he was looking at. We couldn't see the screen, and we don't know. We have no access to it. This is you in your movie taking a clip and putting captions on it and saying that it was him looking at a neural AI. I don't. I can't understand Russian. I don't even know if those captions are real. Right. So, like, there has to be a little bit more source evidence to corroborate what you're.

[C]

Saying. Come on. That video speaks for itself. Look at. You're going to like this. And this is pretty much the last clip, except for one at the very end. Clip 28 is Dan Rather describing. And you'll see the relevance. The Kennedy assassination. They refused to show the Zubruder film. They said, trust us, we'll describe it for you. So you're gonna hear Dan Rather's description where he says, the third and fatal shot, Kennedy's head goes violently forward. That way Oswald could do it because he was supposed to be behind him. And at the end, at that exact moment, his head actually goes backwards, indicating the bullet traveling at 2,000 miles an hour, which causes the force of the head to move was actually in the front. My point is, the most important event before the moon landing was the Kennedy assassination. And we're going to show an example where the evening news said the exact opposite of the truth. Go ahead and play.

[B]

It.

[C]

Yes, in the next instant with this.

[A]

Time. Mrs. Kennedy apparently looking on a.

[C]

Second shot, shot the third total shot hit the President's head. He seemed to move violently.

[A]

Forward. Violently forward, Violently.

[C]

Forward. So Dan Rather, just make a.

[B]

Note, make a note to make sure we cut that out because we can't.

[C]

Show that on the pod or you could possibly show it on the white shot if you show it on a screen. So basically I, I have it on my channel without a problem. They just monetize that segment or whatever. But right, there you go. Dan.

[B]

Rather. Yeah, we know that. We know the media and the.

[C]

Government lives the exact opposite of the truth. So the point is if they're willing to kill their own president, they're not going to have a problem faking a video image on the moon where there's no nobody there and no reporters.

[B]

There. I, I am in 100 agreement with you on that. Okay, well, let's talk about, I'm curious about the, the, the post flight press conference. It seems like in that first press conference after Apollo 11 with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, they're, they seem very cold. They seem in a, their demeanor seems very grim. Not what I would imagine astronauts that just walked on the moon for the first time in the history of the world. What do you make of that.

[A]

Charles? I don't know which one you're talking about, but they, they brought press conference. Well, they landed. I don't know whether we're still in quarantine or not. Are you talking about.

[B]

Quarantine? It was after the quarantine when they went in front of the, in front of the media. Do you remember the date of that press.

[C]

Conference? I think it was in August, like August 23rd, 1969. Something around.

[A]

There.

[C]

Yeah. Everybody is astonished to me. The window shot, this one proves they didn't go to the moon, but other people are convinced by their expressions that they look like they're at their mother's funeral instead of the winning locker room of the super bowl because they're lying and don't want to lie. You also see they have two teleprompters kind of hidden in their desk to prompt them what it was like to walk on the moon for the first time, even though they're the only ones in the world who should know.

[B]

That, that what sort of, like what sort of psychological, is there, is there any sort of psychological effect that you could use to describe why they, why their demeanor would be like this, why they wouldn't be more elated or more exuberant to describe what they just went through? Because A lot of people, this is one of the main reasons people who question the moon landing. This is one of the main pieces of evidence they use. They, they say that these guys look like they just got brainwashed or something, or that they were just told to lie about something. But is there, is there any sort of like. Because people the astronauts have described particularly this effect of coming back to Earth from outer space and seeing the, the Earth, there's this, this overview effect that happens where it kind of like, like crosses some wires psychologically, where when you get back to Earth, it's almost like nothing will ever meet the level of intensity and excitement as walking on the moon. And maybe that could explain some of the reasons why all the astronauts, their lives just went into a downward spiral when they got home. They, they became alcoholics, they divorced their wives. What do you make of.

[A]

That? I think it's as. Yeah, it's hard to say. People had different reasons for leaving their wives. Going into. Buzz was sort of an alcoholic and when he left the space program, he was, He went into a. I'd saw a downward spiral. He'd been at the top of the, the top of the list for importance. And then he got out. Then he went to. Ended up as commander of the test pilot School, as a colonel. He was still on active duty. And then he was very upset, I don't think. I think because he never did make general until recently. He was made. Made general and I think the Air Force finally rewarded him for that, if I'm saying this correctly. Anyway, some people had different remotions of, you know, my flight though. I was number 10 on the.

[B]

Moon. Oh, your phone's.

[A]

Ringing. Oh.

[B]

Sorry. It's.

[A]

Okay. My wife. I was really exuberant. Even when we got back, it was just. I was number 10 on the moon. And it was, it was the most incredible experience to see the moon and to drive the. Not drive the rover, but ride the rover and see picking up rocks and seeing the beauty of the moon. It was thrilling and exciting and we, we wanted to, we didn't want to come back. We were having so much fun. And they said, get back in, you guys, it's time to come home. But so we got back.

[B]

Inside. Do you, do you recall any similar feelings? Like what, what, what was your, your state like? What kind of. Were you in a different state of mind when you got back to Earth for a while? Were there, were there any sort of lingering psychological effects that might, may have affected you at.

[A]

All? I think it was just excitement, you know, I've been, I'm on the moon. I'm on the.

[B]

Moon. No, I mean when you got.

[A]

Back. And when I got back, I had the same feelings that I've been to the moon. And it was a. A thrilling experience. I love to talk about it. I still do. It was not life changing, but it was a tremendous experience of, of being selected. It was an honor to be a moonwalker. And you know, we just threw ourselves into it for two years. John and I trained for. We were back up on 13, and then we helped them return. And then after that we went prime crew. And it was two years later that we finally flew. And so it was a long time to get focused on that. And this is going to happen sooner or later. And sooner or later, you know, two years later, we landed on the moon. And it was exuberating, exhilarating experience and awesome. You know, we didn't want to come back. You know, it was one of the. Look at that rock over there, John, look at over here. You know, it was just excitement the whole time we were on the moon. And yet it was. You had a job to do, so you had to follow the flight plan, if you will. And, and with. Finally you got outside and not outside, but you time to come back in. You didn't want to come back in. I'll give me two more minutes, guys, or something like that. And. But the mission control was very adamant. You got this level of oxygen and water remaining. Get back inside. So we got back.

[B]

Inside. So the objectives and the tasks that you guys had to accomplish when you were outside of the moose sort of overpowered the. You didn't really get any sort of like, like moment to reflect and internalize what was happening right then and there and like sit back and just take in the awe of being. No, we were 240,000 miles.

[A]

Away. We were too busy for.

[B]

That. Too busy.

[A]

Yeah. Later on, you know, looking back at it now, it was a tremendous experience and we wanted to stay longer. We wanted to know two hours on the moon or whatever it was. And they said, get back inside, guys, time to come home. And we were late landing because of a problem with the command.

[B]

Module. And why was it that Neil only ever did one. He did two talks in his entire.

[A]

Life. He was one of the shyest guys I've ever.

[E]

Met.

[A]

That. And he was never, it was never, look at me, I'm the big Neil Armstrong. He was shy and reserved and never really never took.

[C]

Credit. One of the last things he said about traveling to the moon was perhaps someday the children of the world will be able to remove one of Truth's protective layers. The people I interviewed about him said he was. Was the opposite of shy. Until he returned from the moon, his personality changed dramatically. He was the life of the party. He played the piano. He was the center of attention at all parties before.

[B]

The. Before the moon.

[C]

Mission. And then afterwards, something in him changed. He refused to give interviews unless the President asked him to. And the last time one did, Clinton. It's a clip in my [e-mail] on the homepage, he says, perhaps someday to the children touring the White House, you'll be able to remove one of Truth's protective layers. And that's what we're trying to do.

[B]

Today. Did you notice that at all? His personality changing before and after?

[A]

Nothing. He got shy or. I think he did. I always took it. He didn't want to. Want to take any credit for this. You know, it was. He happened to be first on the moon, but anybody could have been first on the moon, basically. And, you know, he was just scheduled to be on Apollo 11. And so they. That could put him first on the moon. Buzz Aldrin wanted to swap places with him. So Burns was the first on the.

[C]

Moon. Oh.

[A]

Really? Yeah, but he didn't do it. And the hatch, Neil was on the left side and a hatch was underneath the computer. The instrument panel in the center, and the hatch open towards the lunar module pilot. So the guy on that left side had to get out.

[B]

First. That was.

[A]

It. That was it. Just the way the hatch swung.

[B]

Open.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. You would just think being the first man to walk on the moon, you would. You would almost be pushed more into the public spotlight, you know, because he was.

[A]

Sh. He was shy. He really.

[C]

Was. After he returned, he became.

[B]

Shy.

[A]

Right. After.

[B]

What?

[C]

After. After he returned, the people I interviewed said he was the opposite, very Gregorious person. Life of the party people. He played the piano. Everyone surrounded him at all.

[A]

Parties. I never remember him like.

[D]

That.

[B]

No. Did you spend a lot of time with him.

[A]

Beforehand? He was. Forgot what I was involved in Apollo 8, Apollo 9. No, not 9. 8, 10, 11. Okay. So I. Those crews. And then I was back up on 13 and then flew on 16. So I was. I got to know him and. And Buzz was a different walk to a different drum. I thought Neil was very shy, but very competent. He had a tremendous background in test pilot experience when he was at Edwards Air Force Base. And he was just really sharp and. But he was an all shucks kind of.

[B]

Guy. Do you Think it's possible that the federal government or NASA would have, in preparation to going to the moon in case something went wrong with, like, the cameras or the film or something like that, or maybe even like a catastrophic failure and you guys weren't able to make it? Do you think there's any possibility that they would have shot some sort of footage on Earth to basically show the public, to boost public confidence and to, to prove, to show the world that we did go to the moon, even though we did go and we didn't have the actual evidence to show? Maybe it might be better to have a backup plan as far as the footage goes, because maybe the film wouldn't survive going through the radiation or there would be some sort of problem with the cameras or something like.

[A]

That. That was never, never any discussion like that, that, that the astronaut office was part of. Sure, it's my part of the astronaut.

[B]

Sure. But like, but outside of your personal experience being an astronaut with the astronauts, obviously the astronauts weren't. Their number one objective was not media and documentation. But do you, outside of that, do you think there's any shred of possibility that there would have been a backup plan as far as getting some footage on.

[A]

Earth? No, we. That never entered anybody's mind. No, that I know of. I was involved in Apollo 10, support crew, back up on Apollo 13 and flew on 16. And it was never any discussion of, well, let's fake this. If, if the, if, you know, whatever happened, we're going to fake the landing. That discussion was never.

[C]

Had. Let me ask you a question about that. Let's just say, use your great mind and imagination for a moment. If I'm right, let's just say we're in a different world where the federal government did fake the moon landing for military reasons or whatever. What do you think those reasons would have.

[A]

Been? I can't imagine doing that, except for prestige. They save face, let me put.

[C]

It that way, because Kennedy said they'd go before the end of the.

[A]

Decade. Yeah. And we made.

[B]

It with all the evidence that, with all the stuff that Bart's presented to us today, with the footage and, and the interviews of Von Braun and all, all the other stuff. Can you put yourself in, in somebody's shoes? Can you, could you put yourself in Bart's shoes? Or a dumb, dumb like me, my shoes, who wasn't there. I'm not an astronaut. I have no experience flying any type of aircraft, being presented with some of the stuff that Bart's showing and say, oh, there, maybe this was. Maybe this Was fake. Maybe this was because it was done in the Cold War. The government was constantly lying during the Cold War. Faking pretexts to get into wars, doing mind control experiments. Like. Yeah, there might be a possibility that. That this was faked. If you're not yourself, if you're. If you are me or if you're.

[A]

Bart. I mean, you can believe anything you want if. If you think it was faked. If you think it was faked, but you can show the evidence it wasn't.

[C]

Faked. Well, about that. There's an interesting scripture in Joshua. God told Israel not to make a peace treaty with any of the nations surrounding Israel. And the one that neighbored them knew that. It says when the inhabitants of Gibeon heard that Joshua, what he had done to Jericho and AI, they worked craft Lily and went and pretended to be ambassadors from a faraway land. They took old sacks on their donkeys. The fake evidence, fake moon rocks, old wine skins that were torn and mended, and old patched sandals on their feet. They even brought bread that was deliberately.

[A]

Moldy. Yeah, that's.

[C]

Smart. Yeah. So they provided fake evidence, didn't they? Nothing's new under the sun. Jesus also said that there are people who claim to be Christians who are not. They come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are.

[A]

Wolves.

[C]

Yeah. And so just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean that there are. Jesus was said to have been sent to the lost people of Israel. So everything he said was to the church at the time and to those people he said, wide is the gate to the believers, to the church. Church, and wide is it to destruction. And most believers don't make it. The way to life is narrow, and only a few find it. And I know that when I was baptized, I was baptized. Based on Acts chapter two, which says, repent and be.

[A]

Baptized.

[C]

Right. One of the people who was killed that was not shown was James Irwin. James Irwin contacted the leading investigator, Bill Caseing. He was before me, tracked him down after Bill Casing went on Oprah. It said the moon landings are fake. James Irwin, Apollo 15 astronaut, contacted him and he said he had become a born again Christian and they needed to talk about the book he wrote about not going to the moon. He said, I'm concerned for my safety. Please call me at this number three days from now. And on that day, James Irwin had a fatal heart.

[D]

Attack.

[C]

Attack. So to be truly converted, you have to confess your sin. If you've been lying your whole life about the moon landing, you have to tell the truth about it, it says in, in Titus about false Christians. They claim to be of God, but in deeds they don't show.

[A]

It. I.

[C]

Understand. Yeah. So, you know, that's, that's, you know, the issue here, really, it's a spiritual issue that mankind's greatest accomplishment is named after Lucifer. It's interestingly, it's in Revelation 9, 11, it says that one of the names for Lucifer in Greek is Apollo, the great liar. And what. How ironic of a fallen world that the most powerful nation on earth that claims to be the most righteous, that kills their presidents, fake wars, kill their soldiers. Right, Fakes. Moon landing, the greatest accomplishment of man is a lie. My film starts out with the Tower of Babel. Jesus said to start a tower and to not finish it. You're calling yourself a fool. It was done to boast, to save face. We will build it to show off, is what they say in Genesis 6. Never finished. Then we show the Titanic with the headline that they put in print. The ship that God himself cannot sink. And we know what happened there. And then Richard Nixon, when you had the president of Japan and the president of Germany and France there at the launch site. President Nixon doesn't show up because he's afraid the lie will unravel. He showed up for the next launch once they got away with it, and he said, putting a man on the moon is second in greatness only to God making the universe. You see, faking the moon landing is a blasphemous thing. And in law, there's a law that says if you're in a bank robbery where a homicide is committed, even though it's by one of your partners, you can be a part of that. And people were murdered. We just saw 15% of the Apollo astronauts were murdered. James Irwin was murdered. The Apollo 1 crew was murdered. Murdered. Cyrus Eugene Akers said he murdered somebody. So you're part of that too, in some way. Had you.

[A]

Come. How did, how many percent of the Apollo crews were.

[C]

Murdered? Well, they had, they had, quote, fatal accidents all within a 24 month period. 15% of the Apollo crew and backup crews. And so if you had a.

[A]

McDonald's go through those, the.

[C]

Incidents. Well, you could, you could play the clip again. They showed the pictures of the astronauts. Now if I was, you know, a owner of a McDonald's and 15 of my employees had fatal accidents within 24 months, I think the homicide police will be all over the place. And then the leading critic, Baron, he wrote a report to give to Congress about how they were a decade or more away from going to the moon. Instead of two years, the report disappeared, and he was found dead on a train crossing after he had received death threats. That was an old CIA trick for getting rid of forensic evidence before they had DNA testing. They kill him, put them on the train tracks, and it destroys all the evidence. So not only did they fake the moon landing, the federal government is using our salaries, a third of them, to deceive us and to pay the salaries of CIA agents who are killing our brothers and sisters who are trying to expose the moon landing.

[A]

Fraud. So all of the moon landings were.

[C]

Faked? You said 20. When you walked in here, you remembered a conversation we had word for word 20 years ago. And you know that I'm the one who said we didn't go to the moon. And yet you've said at least 10 times since we've been here. You're surprised that that's what I'm saying. When Danny made me clear I.

[A]

Didn'T remember that conversation, you quoted me word for word. Well, anyway, I don't remember quoting you that. That we did not land on the.

[C]

Moon. You said that I called you up and said I have irrefutable proof that we didn't go to the moon. Danny called you up and said, you're going to debate somebody who thinks we didn't go to the moon. And yet 10 times you've acted like you're surprised. Here. There's this acting, and I'm sorry, there's no Nazi war criminal. Whoever turned themselves in, they act like a benevolent grandfather when they're guilty. None of them have confessed. None of them came forward, and they're still guilty. And you're the same way Buzz Aldrin said accidentally, one too many times, he didn't go to the moon. He was asked a few years ago, why have we not been back? He says, because we didn't go. And if we didn't go, we need to know why. And now that he's tripping over his tongue, they bring you out instead. Since I did Joe Rogan, so many people are being converted to the truth, and you're here to put out fires. Because if I climbed Mount Everest and some guy wanted to debate me, I would not waste my time. You're here to put out all these fires of all these people, saying it'll take multiple fuel trips to reach it to the moon. Multiple people saying the radiation belts are dangerous and the technology to go through them hasn't been invented yet. The truth is coming out. What would happen if the Truth came out, it would be a big embarrassment for the United States government and embarrassment for you and all of the other surviving Apollo astronauts who have built their reputations, hired as CEOs of companies for a lie. And that's the way that it is. We live in a fallen world. And people are expected to believe you on face value because he claimed to be a Christian when Jesus himself said the majority of people who claim they're Christian are not saved. So if you're truly converted, you would repent, but you're.

[A]

Not. So repent of.

[C]

What? Of your lie. Your lifelong lie of going to the moon, obviously. So anyway, I have one last.

[A]

Clip. Wait a minute. Hold on, wait a minute. You're saying that nobody landed on the.

[C]

Moon. You know that? I don't know why you're acting.

[B]

Surprised. That's what he.

[A]

Says. Okay, so where did all the moon rocks come.

[C]

From? You've asked that four times and we've already covered.

[B]

That. Okay, Bart, real quick, quick. You said that a 15% of the astronauts die within 24.

[C]

Months. That's.

[B]

Right. Of Apollo.

[C]

1. Well, of prior to the Apollo program, prior to the first launch to the.

[B]

Moon. Oh, they died prior to the first.

[C]

Launch. Correct. People, in my opinion, who would not cooperate with the fraud, like Gus.

[B]

Grissom. So how. So how will we ask the Internet. We can say how many Apollo astronauts died from died period before Apollo.

[C]

1. That was research done by Fox News and the program Conspiracy theory. Did we land on the moon? You can only see [e-mail]. it's one of the clips available.

[B]

Within. This says 24 months after. Steve, you would have to type in how many of the Apollo era astronauts died in.

[C]

Accidents. Well, I'm quoting Fox.

[B]

News. I understand that, but I want to. I want. Right. I want to corroborate it with Chachi. But I want to ask how many Apollo astronauts died in accidents before Apollo 1?

[C]

3? Yeah, Fox News says there's more than that. They're including the backup crews as.

[B]

Well. Okay, well how. How many Apollo astronauts and crew members or anybody involved in the Apollo program died before Apollo.

[C]

1? Again, that's Fox News. We have Betty.

[B]

Grissom. Right, but Scott Grissom. BT is better than Fox News. It should be be able to pull up the evidence.

[C]

Right. Well, again, how does it know Lincoln was the 16th president? It was programmed to say so. So it's not completely reliable. What is reliable is Betty Grissom and Scott Grissom, who told me he was Gus Grissom, their husband and Father was going to be the first man on the moon. He was a whistleblower at NASA to such a degree that he got Secret Service protection up until the day of his death. And they both say he was murdered by the CIA. So why is the CIA killing Apollo astronauts? Right? Or whistleblowers at NASA? That's not my opinion. That's the opinion of the dead man's relatives. Right. And then we have Cyrus Eugene Akers, who was there eyewitnessing the faking of the moon landing in 1968, who says he killed a co worker to cover it.

[B]

Up. Okay, so he was a security guy working at an Air Force chief of security. And you're including him in the.

[C]

15%? No, I guess you'd have to add that to it. They're talking about Apollo astronauts and back backup.

[B]

Cruise. Okay.

[C]

Where? So I'm sure they know how to.

[B]

Count. How can we find this Fox, this Fox thing.

[C]

Online? It's on my website on.

[B]

Sobral. How can we find it off of your.

[C]

Website? It's not available.

[B]

Anymore. It's not available anywhere offside off your.

[C]

Web. Okay, yeah. So again, I think Fox News knows how to count and div. And divide on a computer. If they said it's 15, I'm pretty sure it's.

[B]

15. So. And I think you've said this before. If we did fake it, if we faked faked Apollo 11, why wouldn't they just say, okay, we went to the moon, wash our hands of it, why would we fake it five more.

[C]

Times? Because the government is greedy. My first military source who told me the missions were fake, said it's all about the money. $250 billion in today's dollars to go to the moon when they only achieved Earth orbit. That means they can keep about 75% of that. That tens of billions of dollars. I guess what is, you know, 25% of 250 billion. That's what they spent. And they kept 75% of it for who knows what. To go into Cambodia. Congress said you can't use funding to go into Cambodia. We know they did. Where did that money come from? The Apollo program. Just like now. They said you can't give technology to China, but they're doing it anyway. They're breaking their own laws, according to someone who works in the command center of the Chinese Space Agency. So if you believe in God, pray for the truth to come out. I pray for you. I have no animosity toward you at all. I might have done the same thing under your circumstances. I Regularly pray for the astronauts. And I think it would be great if one of them came forward. The problem that the General is facing is there are more than one person alive associated with the Apollo program. If only one person claimed to have walked on the moon solo, they probably would have told the truth by now. But if he confesses, he's ruining the lives of other.

[A]

People. Well, why would I lie? That I walked on the moon.

[C]

For a number of reasons. Because Kennedy made the boast and it couldn't be done and to save face. Plus it embezzled Hunt, you know, a couple hundred billion dollars. And the federal government already proved their arrogance. That's why, you know, it just dawned on me that they went six times, they faked it six times. That's how arrogant the federal government is. They killed their own president. According to the dead man's relatives, they faked the beginning of a war that killed 58,000 of their own people. And they're.

[B]

Ruthless. Bart, what about the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter that corroborated the landing.

[C]

Sites? Well, that's the NASA lunar recon. You're asking the fox to provide evidence. Didn't steal the.

[B]

Chicken. Stephen, I sent you something about, about the Lunar Reconnaissance.

[A]

Order. It was Lunar LRO is a University of Arizona as I understand.

[B]

It. Right. I, I was, I was under the impression that it's has nothing to do with NASA. That it was corroborated by another agency out of.

[D]

Germany. Is this.

[B]

It? Yeah, yeah, yeah, play this. Another everyday shout out to everyday.

[E]

Astronaut. The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter was launched in 2009 and began mapping the surface of the moon as close as 35 km from the surface. And guess what they found on the surface of the Moon? That's right, the Apollo lunar landing sites. Well, actually it's captured every human made object including Soviet Lunokhod rovers and, and crash sites and all sorts of incredible images. And these images have so much detail. You can clearly see the Lunar Lander descent stage, you can see footprints and rover tracks. But what's really cool about these images from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter is you can compare these 21st century photos to video and images taken during liftoff from the Moon of these missions. And you can literally align them and confirm that they're identical. Let's take the lift off of Apollo 16 for example. It has great contrast and it's easy to see lots of detail as it ascends. Its pitchover maneuver also shows the descent stage and some footprints as well. So we can overlay an image shot from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and compare them and look, they're identical. Nothing has changed since there's no wind or atmosphere to disrupt the lunar soil. I just absolutely.

[B]

Love. How did they do.

[C]

That? Well, they faked the.

[A]

Picture.

[C]

Duh. I mean, they already have a full body picture of Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin allegedly standing on the moon that was filmed in Canon Air Force Base. So what is it to fake a little. A little shadow or whatever and claim it went to the moon? Most of these things, A pixel is 30ft across. One pixel is 30ft across in these pictures. So they have crystal clear pictures of a guy standing on the moon. Again, we're asking for the Fox to provide evidence in Steal a Chance. Tick.

[B]

In.

[A]

Sure. What is.

[B]

The. Charlie? Is there. Is there anything else that you would like to say to people, to my audience, to Bart's audience that are on the fence about this and that think that, you know, some of Bart's points could be compelling who aren't convinced we went to the moon? What is.

[A]

Your. I think the evidence is overwhelming. We went to the moon. There's £600 of moon rocks. They're totally different with the radiation history and things like that. There's pictures like LRO showing my rover showing the decent stage on the moon, the footprints. There is. Other, other evidence such as that, you know, but there's a lot of things that prove that we went to the moon. And I would. To me, the evidence is overwhelming that we really did go to the moon. We landed six times and I think the photographs prove it all. And that if. If you're going to fake something, do it once and shut up. We kept.

[C]

Going. That's right. To make money from the taxpayers and the.

[A]

Arrogance. Nobody made any money. The NASA had a.

[C]

Budget. $250 billion is a lot of money. And if you only do Earth orbit, a lot of.

[A]

That. Well, the CIA has a big budget, so everybody. State Department has a big budget.

[C]

It. And scientific methodology as a preposterous claim like cold fusion has to be independently duplicated. No nation on Earth, including the United States, is able to repeat the moon landing. That's. I mean, that's like saying we did cold fusion, but for some reason we can't do it. 50 years later we destroyed the.

[A]

Technology. We did. We did six.

[C]

Landings. Well, you claim to have made six.

[A]

Landings. Yeah.

[C]

Okay. Money, money, money.

[A]

Right. I'm sorry. The rocks that we collected were different than the rocks that Neil Armstrong.

[B]

Collected. We should get those rocks in here and analyze them with an.

[C]

Expert. You get arrested by the FBI like 75 year old.

[B]

Woman. Bart, is there anything that would possibly convince you that we did go to the.

[C]

Moon? Why is there believe it.

[B]

It. I'm saying. No, no, no. I know you did. I know you used to believe it. But I'm saying is there any new evidence anyone could hype it? Use your imagination. Is there any evidence that anyone could bring here to convince you that we did go and that your life's work has been.

[C]

Futile? Well, if you can put me on a rocket that they can't even build 50 years.

[B]

Later. So even if he brought Go to.

[A]

The. And wait a minute, we're building it.

[C]

Artemis. Well, you postpone returning to the moon. And in 10 times presidents have said they're going to return to the moon in five.

[A]

Years. Ten times I haven't heard.

[C]

That. And they're. And yet they can't do.

[B]

It. Yes, put me on a rocket.

[C]

That can go to the moon. I'll pick the Apollo 11 landing site. You know, there is a probe from an independent company that was going to land there and verify and NASA forbid it. So send me to the moon. Send me to the Apollo 11 landing site. If I see those, the, the lunar lander there, I'll publicly say we didn't go to the moon. I've proved I've had an open mind. I went from being the biggest fan worshiping a shrine in my house of Apollo 11 pictures to being open minded and then gradually realizing they did indeed fake it. I mean, a guy who builds rockets for NASA told me they faked it. And so I didn't want to believe it. I found that footage of them faking being halfway to the moon. And I had to admit it, they did fake it. That's why they can only go 1000th the distance today. That's why they can't go through the radiation belt. That's why they need the equivalent of 30 Saturn 5 rockets to have that fuel to leave Earth orbit. It all falls into place. What we have is no independent press coverage. The word of two people who have top secret clearance and photographs that have already been clearly fixed. Faked. We have an eyewitness who saw them film it at Cannon air Force Base, June 1st, 2nd and 3rd of 1968. Even confessing to killing somebody to cover it up. So if they're willing to fake a full body picture, a little shadow or footprints or lunar module, I don't think they're going to have a problem with that. And to tell you the truth, looking at it as a professional cinematographer. It looks like that lunar module was pasted on there. Unless it's.

[A]

Me. Well, I don't know where they sent everybody else who sent me to the moon. I'll stand by.

[B]

That. I love it, Charlie. Well, hey, man, thank you so much for doing this. This has been a fascinating discussion. I learned a lot. Bart, thank you for your time and for making this happen. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how the public takes this and they will decide what they want to believe. But thank you, guys. This has been a pleasure. Very fun. And bart, cyberl.com people can find you.

[C]

There. Yeah, it'll be in the link of the description of this video. Oh, it will get all the. Well, you did last time. That's what you said. That's what you told me you would. And anyway, it has all the video clips there. They can look at them. I may upload separately all the clips that we've done here and just label them. Debate clip 1 through.

[B]

30.

[C]

Okay. Let people decide for.

[B]

Themselves. Okay, Charlie, is there any way people can get in touch with you if they want.

[A]

To. CharlieDuke.

[B]

Com. CharlieDuke. Com.

[C]

Okay. And Sabrell. Com S I B R E.

[B]

L and CharlieDuke.com and Sabrell.com both linked down below for folks. Thank you guys again. That was very.

[A]

Fun. It's a pleasure. Thank you very much. Very interesting.

[B]

Discussion. Very interesting. Good night, everybody.