Danny Jones Podcast #352

NASA Apollo Astronaut Finally Faces Off Against #1 Moon Landing Skeptic
Guests: Charles Duke (Apollo 16 Astronaut), Bart Sibrel (Moon Landing Skeptic)
Date: December 1, 2025

Episode Overview

This landmark episode brings together General Charles Duke, Apollo 16 astronaut and the 10th person to walk on the moon, and Bart Sibrel, one of the world's most outspoken proponents of the moon landing hoax theory. Host Danny Jones moderates a respectful but pointed debate, oscillating between Duke’s firsthand accounts from inside NASA and Sibrel’s meticulously compiled conspiracy arguments. The conversation spans the inception, execution, and aftermath of the Apollo missions, addressing technical, psychological, and cultural factors at the heart of the moon landing debate.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charles Duke’s Apollo Story

[02:24 – 40:26]

• Background & NASA Selection:
  • Duke details his journey from Air Force fighter pilot and MIT graduate to NASA’s test pilot program ([02:31]).
  • Describes applying after seeing a newspaper ad seeking astronauts ([06:34]).
• Training & Geology:
  • Astronaut training involved geology field trips and intensive technical simulations in various locales worldwide ([08:35]).
• Mission Control & Apollo 11:
  • Duke served as Capcom (capsule communicator) for Apollo 10 and 11 landings, the liaison between astronauts and Mission Control ([16:40], [17:29]).
  • Describes tension during Apollo 11’s fuel-short landing:

    "We called 60 seconds. He had 60 seconds to land… I called 30 seconds. They were close, but not on the ground... We were 15 seconds or so before calling an abort when Buzz Aldrin said, 'Contact. Engine stop.' They’re on the moon."
    — Charles Duke ([19:38])

• Apollo 16, Launch, and Lunar Landing:
  • Vividly recounts the liftoff, lunar descent, and first steps on the moon ([24:11]–[34:27]).
  • Explains the use of the lunar rover and rock collection expeditions ([32:25]).

2. Bart Sibrel’s Skepticism & Core Arguments

[41:30 – 236:46]

• Deathbed Confession (Canon AFB):
  • Claims a security chief at Cannon Air Force Base confessed to filming faked moon landing footage, even admitting to murder for cover-up ([41:30]–[49:10]).
  • Presents a video of the son recounting his father’s story ([45:35]).
• Trustworthiness and Oaths:
  • Argues astronauts' top-secret clearances supposedly make their testimonies suspect ([51:19]).
• Government Distrust and Cold War Context:
  • Highlights the climate of deception during the Cold War (JFK assassination, Gulf of Tonkin, MK Ultra, etc.) as rationale for skepticism ([58:26]–[62:10]).
• NASA Technology & Lost Footage:
  • Points to NASA’s admitted loss or destruction of original Apollo telemetry data and video tapes as evidence of a cover-up ([75:11], [81:49]).
• Moon Rocks Allegations:
  • Cites the Dutch “moon rock” exposed as petrified wood and claims rocks could be meteorites or manufactured ([88:02], [93:52]).
• Technical Challenges: Radiation Belts & Rocketry
  • Argues that passage through the Van Allen radiation belts should have been lethal ([132:08], [138:49]).
  • Quotes von Braun’s writings and vintage clips asserting that direct Earth-to-Moon missions would require impractically massive rockets or multiple launches/refueling ([154:16], [161:37]).
  • Points to current requirements for multiple launches for Artemis as proof Apollo’s single-shot missions were impossible.
• Photographic Analysis & AI Claims:
  • Contends lunar shadow photos show studio lighting; disputes scientific explanations involving lens and perspective ([180:38], [189:17]).
  • Introduces a Russian AI that allegedly detected Apollo photos as synthetic, but admits there is no public verification ([196:07]).
• Astronaut Psychological States:
  • Interprets the reserved demeanor of Apollo 11 astronauts in press conferences as possible guilt or trauma from deception ([201:14], [204:31]).

3. The Debate: Claims, Counterclaims, and Notable Exchanges

On Technical Feasibility & Missing Data

• Bart:

  “The problem is, for the first time in history, technology was greater in the past than in the future … NASA says they destroyed the technology and it’s a painful process to build it back again.” ([75:26])

• Duke:

  “We flew to the moon, okay? The program was successful. We did six landings.” ([75:47])

On Trust and Oaths

• Bart:

  “If you’re willing to lie to your wife and children, why should we believe you?”
  ([52:51])

• Duke:

  “No, I’m not lying to them. I’m not lying to anybody. I tell the truth. I landed on the moon.”
  ([53:00])

• Host (Danny):

  “Just because somebody has a top secret clearance … that doesn’t mean that he is inherently a liar.”
  ([53:06])

On Moon Rocks

• Bart:

  “A rock, chain of custody, from the moon, Neil Armstrong’s hand, ends up being fake … it’s a piece of petrified wood.” ([92:06])

• Duke:

  “The moon rocks are unique … their radiation history is unique … they were collected on every mission.” ([89:55])

• On the Dutch rock (clarification):
  • Host finds documentation showing it was U.S. Ambassador, not Armstrong, who gave the gift during the Apollo 11 goodwill tour ([93:38]–[100:04]).

On Van Allen Belts and Radiation

• Bart:

  “According to NASA, the radiation belts are 30,000 miles thick ... If you were going 20,000 miles an hour that would be an hour and a half in the radiation.”
  ([138:49])

  • Cites 2014 NASA interview:

    “We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space.”
    ([143:01])

• Duke:

  “We went through so fast … you’re exposed to so much radiation, but it’s just a boom you’re through, you know.”
  ([138:12])

On Rocket Technology & Modern Missions

• Bart: (quoting von Braun, then referencing Elon Musk and Artemis)

  “Von Braun said mathematically: three rockets, each one taller than the Empire State Building, would be required to do a direct flight to the moon and back … Musk’s Starship, twice the capacity of Saturn V, needs 15 launches to refuel before doing a lunar trip. How could Apollo do it in one shot?” ([154:16], [158:16])

On Photographic “Proof”

• Bart:

  “It is scientifically impossible for shadows to intersect in sunlight … yet Apollo photos show this.” ([181:23])

• Host (after playing counter-explanations):

  “This is the worst piece of evidence because I think this is easily blown out of the water.” ([195:21])

Memorable Moments & Tone

• Host (Danny) to Charlie Duke:

  “Can you put yourself in somebody’s shoes … like mine ... being presented with some of the stuff that Bart's shown and say, ‘maybe this was faked’?”
  ([214:40])

• Duke’s calm resolve:

  “I walked on the moon… The evidence is overwhelming.”
  ([51:08], [232:16])

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Duke on Apollo 11 landing:

  “We were … 15 seconds or so before calling an abort when Buzz Aldrin said, ‘Contact. Engine stop.’ They're on the moon. Wow. Tension was through the roof at mission control.”
  ([19:38])

• Bart on moon landing fraud:

  “To me that would be like debating if the sky is blue … They did fake the moon landing. I'd bet my life on it.”
  ([01:53])

• Bart, referencing supposed deathbed confession:

  “He said it was to cover up the moon landing fraud, which they both had eyewitnessed. … And so he murdered him to keep it a secret.”
  ([43:43])

• Duke on moon landing disbelief:

  “I don't understand the purpose of this discussion … I walked on the moon.”
  Throughout (~[149:54], [168:38], [214:06])

• Bart, on AI and photo analysis:

  “The smartest AI in the world ... just said all the Apollo pictures were fake.”
  ([196:07])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Duke’s NASA career and Apollo training: [02:24 – 14:48]
• Mission Control/Apollo 11 perspective: [16:40 – 23:51]
• Apollo 16 experience & first steps on Moon: [24:11 – 34:27]
• Bart’s introduction, deathbed confessions & major evidence: [41:30 – 54:44]
• Moon rocks controversy: [87:59 – 100:04]
• Film, telemetry data, and lost NASA footage: [75:11 – 85:09]
• Van Allen Belts & radiation debate: [132:08 – 153:01]
• Rocket science and von Braun’s calculations: [154:16 – 165:04]
• Lunar photo analysis and shadow arguments: [180:38 – 195:26]
• Post-flight press conference/psychological effects: [201:14 – 212:12]
• Final arguments from both guests: [232:16 – end]

Memorable Moments & Exchanges

• Duke’s cheerful recall of moonwalks:
  “I'm on the moon. It's just exciting.” ([33:30])
• Host steps in as debate gets personal:
  “I don’t think... just because he has a top secret clearance and he’s under an oath to protect government secrets, that doesn't mean he is inherently a liar.” ([53:06])
• Bart’s AI claim:
  “The neural network has analyzed a lot of data including light and dark contrast etc and then it believes the photo is synthetic.” ([196:57])

Conclusion & Reflections

By episode’s close, neither side budges—the astronaut stands fast on memory, training, physical evidence (moon rocks, photos, captured landing sites via LRO), and a lifetime of testimony. The skeptic counters with stories of government deceit, destroyed records, technical impossibility, suspicious astronaut deaths, and alleged “smoking gun” video evidence.

Danny Jones, mediating, underscores the episode’s central challenge: At a time of institutional mistrust, extraordinary claims (on both sides) demand extraordinary evidence. The debate, rich in candor and contentious but civil, leaves listeners with deep historical, scientific, and philosophical food for thought.

Contact the Guests:

• Charles Duke: charlieduke.com
• Bart Sibrel: sabrell.com

Links to primary clips, documents, and all presented evidence are available at the respective guest sites and show notes.