#355 - Epstein, Atlantis & What's Really Hiding Under Antarctica | Jason Jorjani

Summary

Podcast Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Danny Jones Podcast | QCODE
Episode: #355 - New Epstein Files Could Reveal What is Hiding Under Antarctica | Jason Jorjani
Date: December 15, 2025
Guest: Dr. Jason Jorjani (philosopher, author, researcher)

Danny welcomes back Jason Jorjani for an extended, four-hour deep-dive into his research on Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein, and the intersection of intelligence operations, secret technologies, and Atlantis mythology. They explore new leads from forthcoming Epstein document releases, discuss the nature of the Deep State as a product of Nazi and corporate power, and transition into rich debates on geopolitics, occult history, and controversial theories about ancient civilizations and hidden breakaway societies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Epstein Files & the Maxwell “Ocean Outlaw” Theory

Timestamp: [00:41] – [06:05]

• Jason’s article, Ocean Outlaw, reframes Ghislaine Maxwell as more than a “madam sex trafficker.”
• Research sources include Whitney Webb’s One Nation Under Blackmail, Ari Ben-Menashe, Mike Benz, “Dark Journalist,” and Ian Urbina’s Outlaw Ocean.
• Maxwell’s fascination with extra-territorial waters and ties to oceanic piracy signal broader interests in sovereignty, seasteading, and activities beyond any nation’s jurisdiction.
• Maxwell’s role in the Terramar Foundation, and her interviews with Ian Urbina, show her desire for piratical freedom, perhaps as a means to operate outside of government oversight.
• Quote (Jorjani):
  “Ghislaine Maxwell was fascinated by [Urbina’s] New York Times articles… very revealing, I think, of her motivations and her outlook.” ([05:22])

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2. The Sex Trafficking Narrative & Deep State Diversions

Timestamp: [06:05] – [14:32]

• Giorgiani asserts: “The salaciousness of the madam sex trafficker...has been used to cover up what’s really going on, and that it is fundamentally a diversionary tactic.” ([06:10])
• Confirms sex trafficking was real, but insists its coverage is hyper-sensationalized to divert from powerful networks and the roots of state power.
• Recounts a 2019 lunch with Mossad operatives who casually discussed sexual exploitation as an ingrained, overlooked part of elite business dealings.
• Giorgiani attended the Dalton School, tying personal background to Epstein, who also taught there in the late 1970s.

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3. The Dalton School as Deep State Nexus

Timestamp: [14:32] – [25:32]

• Epstein was hired at Dalton by Donald Barr, OSS/CIA operative and author of Space Relations, a sci-fi novel about aristocratic pirates and interplanetary sex trafficking.
• Dalton itself was a recruiting ground for intelligence agencies, with faculty covertly scouting high-IQ, highly suggestible students for future intelligence work.
• Quote (Jorjani):
  “Within a year, after having been his student… it became clear he was trying to recruit me into the CIA. I was 14 years old.” ([22:13])
• The school librarian, the wife of the CIA recruiter, created lists of student library reading to aid identification—a covert, educational surveillance system.

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4. Epstein’s Network: Intelligence, Jewish Mafia, and Deep State Roots

Timestamp: [16:05] – [31:35], [75:23] – [80:01]

• Jorjani distinguishes between Mossad “agents,” “assets,” and “witting collaborators,” suggesting Epstein operated as a “facilitator” for both Mossad and CIA, not as a salaried agent.
• Links Epstein’s connections back to Meyer Lansky and the Jewish Mafia, showing Epstein’s trajectory as that of an under-qualified Dalton teacher recruited upward through elite networks.
• Jewish mob ties, elite prep school access, and connections to CIA/Mossad form a triad of power typical of what he calls the American Deep State.

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5. Iran, Israel, Geopolitics, and Demographic Tensions

Timestamp: [31:35] – [66:30]

• Extensive conversation on regime change in Iran, U.S. foreign policy, and projections of global Muslim demographic ascendancy.
• Jorjani claims that Islam is structurally unreformable and that by 2075, major world cities and the planet as a whole will be Muslim-majority, changing the Western political landscape.
• Pro-Israel stance is rooted in viewing Israel as a nuclear-armed “last line of defense” against a future global Islamic caliphate.
• Quote (Jorjani):
  “I trust this little country, smaller than New Jersey... and this little country’s arsenal of 300 nuclear weapons. Because the last thing the Israelis are going to allow is for them to be subsumed and dominated and integrated into a global Islamic caliphate.” ([47:07])

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6. The Deep State: Nazi Origins and Breakaway Civilizations

Timestamp: [80:01] – [108:09]

• Deep State in the U.S. is depicted as an extension of the Nazi and fascist intelligence networks absorbed after WWII.
• Details America’s Nazi connections: financing the Reich, importing Nazi scientists via Operation Paperclip, and integrating SS intelligence networks into the CIA.
• Outlines the occult and technological ambitions of the Nazi “Fourth Reich” and postwar American security complex, including research into anti-gravity, zero-point energy, and advanced aerospace technologies.
• Quote (Jorjani):
  “The deep state of this country is Nazi… The American elites who believed in this ideology created Nazi Germany in the first place…” ([104:31])
• Suggests that while deep state actors have access to advanced tech, Epstein was an outsider—his efforts at genetics and anti-gravity were attempts to crack into these enclaves.

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7. Epstein, Maxwell, Atlantis & Occult Science

Timestamp: [108:10] – [146:10]

• Maxwell’s upbringing under Robert Maxwell, ties to Springers’ Pergamon Press, and the “Throne of Satan” mythos.
• Close connections with Jacques Cousteau inspire her obsession with Atlantis.
  • Maxwell named Epstein’s submarine Atlantis and used the pseudonym “Janet Atlantis.”
• Epstein’s Zorro Ranch features a maze modeled after Plato’s description of Atlantis; allegations around genetic programs and eugenics underscore a “Nordic phenotype” obsession.
• Epstein’s motivations: Beyond blackmail, a quest for breakaway scientific civilization, genetic engineering, and perhaps even “breeding a super-race.”

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8. Antarctic Atlantis, Nazi Expeditions & Modern Connections

Timestamp: [146:11] – [169:02]

• Explores Plato, Egyptian, Mayan, and Edgar Cayce legends around Atlantis as a global culture, tied to Antarctica.
• Ancient pole shifts suggest Antarctica was once the North Pole, and “Thule/Thulan” myths from the Nazis are linked to this “lost civilization.”
• Post-WWII Nazi expeditions to Antarctica, Admiral Byrd’s failed Operation High Jump, and von Braun’s Antarctic visits as potential moon rock operations.
• Maxwell’s latter-day interests, through her romantic tie to CIA-linked “NSA of the Seas” Scott Borgerson, suggest she too shifted her search for Atlantis to Antarctica.

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9. Seasteading, Terramar, and Ocean Sovereignty

Timestamp: [169:03] – [181:18]

• Maxwell’s Terramar Foundation and its goals are framed as a new form of stateless sovereignty, potentially mimicking “breakaways” already achieved in secret deep-sea military complexes.
• Terramar’s public stance was ocean conservation, but Jorjani argues its true aims were sovereignty and freedom from nation-state regulation—a platform for trafficking, tax evasion, and black operations.

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10. Thanosis, the Afterlife, and the Atlantean Rebellion Legacy

Timestamp: [194:07] – [223:23]

• Shifts into Jorjani’s philosophical work: Thanosis explores the afterlife, reincarnation, and soul sovereignty through parapsychology, NDEs, and historical religious study.
• Revisits the Atlantis myth and the “Sons of Belial,” recasting them as Promethean, rebellious freedom-seekers rather than Gnostic Satanic archetypes.
• The “control system”—both spiritual and physical—is described, connecting modern intelligence structures, ancient mythology, and a metaphysical struggle for individual autonomy.
• Quote (Jorjani):
  “By the end of this book, what you’re presented with is a working model of how to control the destiny of your own soul in a way that gets past the control system managed by God and the angels.” ([203:37])

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11. Where Next? The American Breakaway and Constitutional Crisis

Timestamp: [223:47] – [224:56]

• Jorjani previews his upcoming work, aiming to address the current American constitutional crisis through the lens of a secretive, “breakaway” deep state.
• Asks: Will this hidden, powerful elite use their capabilities to defend America, or are they now something apart from the state altogether?

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Deep State Secrecy:
  “If you’re trying to figure out how a UFO flies, it means you don’t have access to the ones being built by Lockheed.” ([137:24])
• On Nazi Origins of U.S. Intelligence:
  “The OSS turned into the CIA was its integration with a bunch of Nazi spies. Mazel tov. Great move.” ([95:24])
• On Maxwell’s True Focus:
  “She becomes her boyfriend… and this Borgerson starts talking about how when the ice in Antarctica melts, it’s going to reveal Atlantis.” ([166:10])
• On Thanosis:
  “By the end of this book, you’re going to understand how the Belial group thought…” ([203:37])
• On Afterlife Manipulation:
  “The entities that try to con you into believing there is [karma] are actually just trying to keep you within the control system.” ([219:27])
• On Epstein’s Place in the System:
  “He had so much money and power that he assumed everything should be accessible to him… and he came up against hard walls and realized... fuck this country, and by extension, the world, is run by a mafia set up by Nazis, which I don’t have access to.” ([163:55])

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Important Timestamps

• [00:41] – Episode kicks off, main theme introduction
• [06:10] – The “diversion” of the sex trafficking narrative
• [14:32] – Dalton School, Donald Barr, and CIA connection
• [31:35] – Islam, Israel, and geopolitical stakes
• [80:01] – Origins of the American Deep State and Nazi influence
• [108:10] – Epstein and Maxwell’s Atlantis/occult connections
• [146:11] – The Antarctic Atlantis hypothesis
• [194:07] – Thanosis, afterlife, and metaphysical rebellion
• [223:47] – The future: Will the breakaway civilization save or desert America?

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Final Words

Jorjani’s appearance is a whirlwind connecting Epstein/Maxwell’s under-explored ambitions (beyond sex trafficking), the deep roots of America’s intelligence apparatus, the occult, and radical theories on control, freedom, and secret societies. Whether skeptical or convinced, listeners are challenged to rethink narratives surrounding power, history, and even the mystery of existence.

Danny closes with praise and anticipation for Jorjani’s next appearance, promising more deep dives into the philosophical, the forbidden, and the conspiratorial.

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Recommended: For further details, see Jason Jorjani’s articles “Ocean Outlaw” and “Rebels of Atlantis”; his new book, Thanosis; and explore the referenced research on Pergamon Press, Nazism in America, and Terramar.

Transcript

[Danny Jones]

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[Jason Giorgiani]

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[Danny Jones]

All right, Jason Georgiani, welcome back.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Thank you. It's always a pleasure to be with you. Danny.

[Danny Jones]

I was completely blown away by your new substack article on Ghisan Maxwell and her Janet Atlantis pseudonym and her whole backstory tie into Atlantis and all this stuff. And it's a super relevant topic because I believe that they just signed some sort of bill yesterday, right, to release 33, 000 more Epstein documents.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, they're supposed to be released by December 20th, but if I recall correctly, I think that's a Saturday. So probably, I think Monday, December 22, we should see this drop. And I'm sure it's going to be, you know, judging by the emails that have already been leaked, this is probably going to be one of the largest political scandals of our time. One thing, though, about the substack piece, it's actually not a recent substack piece. I think I came out with that in July. Right. And it's called for people who want to find it, it's called Ocean Outlaw.

[Danny Jones]

And I'll link it below.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, the subtitle has Ghislaine Maxwell's name. I think it's a portrait of Ghislaine Maxwell. Ocean Outlaw, A portrait of Ghislaine Maxwell. So she's the focus. But I mean, obviously it gets extensively into Epstein as well. And let me just say at the outset, if that's where we want to start our conversation, that I drew from a plethora of sources to basically to compose this piece. I started researching her and and Epstein's activities shortly after his second arrest in 2019. And the reason that I did that had to do with his involvement with the Dalton School, which was my alma mater. And I'll get into that in a second. Okay. But when I researched this, there are a number of sources that I drew from and let me acknowledge those at the outset and then I might, you know, go back and refer to, you know, any one of them if it occurs to me in the course of our conversation. One is Whitney Webb's book.

[Danny Jones]

Oh yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

One Nation Under Blackmail.

[Danny Jones]

Another she's deep into this stuff.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes. Although I. I think that she is a little off in her interpretation of what was really going on here, and we can get into that in detail. But, yeah, she was definitely a source. Ari Ben Menasheh, a disgraced former Mossad agent who fell out with the Mossad and used to be an Israeli arms dealer. He's another source. Then Betty Maxwell, Elizabeth Maxwell, Robert Maxwell's wife and Ghislaine's mother, wrote a book titled A Mind of My Own. And there's a lot of biographical material in there about Robert Maxwell. So that's third source. There's this guy, Mike Benz, who has a YouTube channel.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah. And he's been on here.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, he has. He been. I missed that episode. So, yeah, he's. He's done some good commentary on that as well. And he was very shrewd and in analyzing the kinds of business deals, high finance deals, and like, energy sector deals that Epstein was involved with and his connections to people like Adnan Khashoggi. And then a very important source is also dark journalist and his research on the connections between Maxwell and Atlantis. And you know, how that basically helps us to decipher Jeffrey Epstein's fundamental motivations on a more esoteric and occult level. So those are all sources that I drew from to compose this piece. Oh, and then of course, the title of the piece, Ocean Outlaw, comes from a book called Outlaw Ocean, which is written by Ian Urbina of the New York Times. And this guy, this New York Times reporter, basically spent months on a pirate ship learning about international piracy and how the. How the extraterritorial waters, how the, you know, international waters that are outside the jurisdiction of any one nation state are used as a territory for various, you know, extrajudicial activities. Okay. And Ghislaine Maxwell was fascinated by this guy's initially series of articles in the New York Times, which were then subsequently adapted into this book, Outlaw Ocean. And during her days running the Terramar foundation that she set up, she actually interviewed Ian Urbina herself. And, you know, if you can manage to dig through the piles of sex trafficking garbage that there are on the Internet, you might find the needle in the haystack of Ghislaine Maxwell's interviews with Ian Urbina, which are very revealing, I think, of her motivations and her outlook.

[Danny Jones]

Do you think the sex trafficking stuff isn't real?

[Jason Giorgiani]

No, but I think the salaciousness of the, you know, madam sex trafficker, you know, underage prostitution ring narrative has been used to cover up what's really going on, and that it is fundamentally a diversionary tactic.

[Danny Jones]

But do you think it's not real?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Clearly, Epstein was using his modeling agency to hook up powerful, influential men with whom he had business dealings with underaged women. Like this is clearly the case. In fact, to tell you the truth, at one point, when I was lobbying for regime change in Iran, this was 2019, I believe that this meeting took.

[Danny Jones]

Place as a good Iranian does.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Well, you know, I'm an American, but.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I'm. I'm of paternal Iranian descent.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And I've spent decades at this point trying to facilitate a change of regime in that country, which, by the way, would be a great thing for the United States. I mean, the population of Iran is undoubtedly the single most pro American population on the face of the earth. Much more so than. Than, unfortunately, any European country these days. America is wildly popular among Iranians. And so if the regime flipped there, United States would gain an incredible new ally with tremendous geostrategic significance. So anyway, I was lobbying for this regime change, and we did a lot of that in Washington, But I also engaged the Israelis, and I believe it was 2019, because it was after Epstein had been arrested. But not long after, I had lunch in midtown Manhattan at some very fancy Italian restaurant in midtown Manhattan with two very high level Mossad operatives who were close personal friends of Benjamin Netanyahu.

[Danny Jones]

How did you arrange that?

[Jason Giorgiani]

It was arranged by a construction magnate who was business partners with Donald Trump.

[Danny Jones]

Okay.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Anyway. And he was at the table, this gentleman. So anyway, I'm sitting with these two guys, and they're older guys, they're very successful businessmen. And so, as I said, Mossad operatives at a high level, they're not salaried agents. And I also think that.

[Danny Jones]

You mean they're not officers. They're. They're agents.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They're not officers.

[Danny Jones]

They're not officers.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They're not assets either. Which is another intelligence classification.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Where you have somebody who's a, in one form or another, paid asset. They're not necessarily getting a salary, but they're being compensated for being an asset. Sure. You have files on them as an asset in the agency. Right. So these guys were neither of those. And Jeffrey Epstein was neither of those. So we can get into that.

[Danny Jones]

What else can you be?

[Jason Giorgiani]

When you're a very successful, well connected businessman and your interests align with the interests of an intelligence service or with the interests of a country that has a powerful intelligence service, you can be a witting collaborator and sort of facilitator for that agency. And I Think, in fact, that's what Jeffrey Epstein was. That. And we can get into that. We'll go back and get into this in detail. But as I understand it now, even more so than when I wrote that piece, Ocean Outlaw, I think that Epstein was a sort of witting collaborator and high level facilitator, both for the CIA and for the Mossad. I don't think he was an agent or an asset of either of those agencies. Anyway, I was sitting with these two guys is all to go to the sex trafficking. I was sitting with those guys and I said to, I guess they asked me about my background. I said, you know, I went to the Dalton School. Pardon my French, I want to quote them directly, right? I said, I went to the Dalton School. One of them goes, that's where that cocksucker Jeffrey taught. And the other one looks at him, he looks at the other guy and goes, I told that motherfucker to be more careful. I told him to be more careful.

[Danny Jones]

This is what year again?

[Jason Giorgiani]

I think 2019. And so the two of them are now going at it about Jeffrey Epstein, back and forth across. I actually did not realize at that moment who they're talking about.

[Danny Jones]

But it.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Became very clear because later in the conversation they started talking about their own involvement with underage women. They were bragging to each other about, like, how young the women were that they, you know, were involved with. And like, it was, it was, it was, it really turned my stomach. It was like. Because they were talking about, you know, the expiration dates on the women that they were involved with and, like, how they pass them on to somebody else, like when they're done with them. And, you know, I had to deal with a lot of very unpleasant stuff like that in the course of political lobbying. And in fact, it's why I left that whole scene because later on when we were lobbying in Washington, you know, for regime change in Iran, got to the point where I was witness to conversations where basically people in the Iranian opposition were sitting with, you know, American businessmen and in advance, like, selling off various national resources of Iran to various corporations. At which point I was like this. I. I want nothing to do with this kind of path to regime change in Iran. Anyway, point being, I know the thing about the underage women was real simply from my conversation with these two guys, because clearly they were involved with him and they were partaking of that.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, I was not aware that you went to the Dalton School.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Not only did I go to the Dalton School, Danny, but, you know, let me say this up Front. It's certainly relevant to the conversation. I met Jeffrey Epstein on one occasion for.

[Danny Jones]

Really?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes, for less than five minutes. And you know, by the way, okay, you first invited me to come have this conversation like six months ago, something like that. After the piece came out. You read the piece and.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And you might have noticed I was a little bit hesitant. And you know, last time we corresponded, you're like, what are you. Don't, don't big time me. After whatever you've been on, whatever.

[Danny Jones]

After you go on my boy Jesse Michael's show, you can't go on a little Danny Jones show anymore.

[Jason Giorgiani]

It had nothing to do with that. It had to do with the fact that, quite frankly, I'm uncomfortable having this conversation. It's interesting. We've discussed, you know, how the moon is hollow and there are like overlords, you know, managing the sociopolitical systems of Earth from the moon and you know, Atlanteans hiding out under Antarctica and you know, the Nazi angle in, in terms of the whole UFO phenomenon and so forth. But there's something about the Epstein scandal which connects those very high level or, or you could say very deep level operations to a much more mundane, scummy stratum of human life. Right. In a way that's particularly disturbing and also dangerous. Dangerous from a legal standpoint and dangerous in terms of how much of it involves organized crime. I mean, we know what mafias do.

[Danny Jones]

Yes.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay, so it's a. There has yet to be an interview that I've gone into where I felt uncomfortable about the subject matter. This is the first one. So if people notice, you know, a slight, you know, Chaney esque parsimoniousness and restraint. That's why it's not a subject matter I really wanted to talk. To. Talk about. But here we are. Okay, so yes, I met Jeffrey Epstein on one of the.

[Danny Jones]

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[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay? See, one of the angles that people don't look at in terms of this scandal is that they assume all the time that Jeffrey Epstein's high level Jewish connections involve some kind of official work on behalf of Mossad. Folks. We have a Jewish mafia in this country, okay? Like, have you seen Godfather? The character that was called Hyman Roth in Godfather, Remember that? The Jewish mobster who's very close to the Corleone family and did business with them. That guy who's portrayed as, you know, Hyman Roth and Godfather is actually Meyer Lansky. Meyer Lansky, he was from Eastern Europe originally, but he was a New York mobster who was in the casino business and had a lot of developments in Las Vegas and then also in Miami.

[Danny Jones]

Cuba. Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

He was involved with, you know, the Corleone and elements of the CIA in trying to bring about regime change in Cuba because he had lost casino assets in Cuba and wanted to, like, you know, change the regime so that he could open up Cuba economically again. Right. Anyway, Meyer Lansky is a New York Jewish mobster with an extensive crime syndicate, okay? With many tendrils. And he used to like to recruit smart Jews from Brooklyn. Jeffrey Epstein's a Coney island kid. He's a smart Jew from Brooklyn. All right? And when he got involved in the late 1970s, Meyer Lansky was still alive and still recruiting. He died in 83, I believe. So Jeffrey Epstein, I'll go back to Dalton. Jeffrey Epstein got his teaching job at Dalton in the late 1970s. And he wasn't qualified for it.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay. Now, you know, a lot of people might not Know this, but Dalton was a very elite prep school in New York, Arguably was the top one. We used to compete with Horace Mann about which. Which school was the top prep school in New York City. And so our faculty consisted of college professor grade teachers. I mean, most of them had PhDs. So Epstein was very unqualified for the job that he had at Dalton based on his CV to date. And he was hired by this OSS operative who, you know, transitioned into the CIA as part of the transformation of that agency man by the name Donald Barr. And this high level, you know, OSS turned CIA operative was very peculiar insofar as he was also the author of some rather lurid science fiction. He wrote this book called Space Relationship, which is about a group of aristocratic pirates who are running illegal operations in space between various interplanetary colonies.

[Danny Jones]

Cosmic pirates.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Cosmic pirates. And this is going to become relevant. And one very important figure. What was her name? Morgan. Lady Morgan. Sydney. I believe the Morgan name there is important because it's a reference to the Morgana and Morgan le Fay in the Arthurian mythos and so forth. And this Lady Morgan character is like, so. So she's the only woman in a group of very powerful men that are part of this, like, piratical, you know, organization. Interplanetary piratical organization. And this lone woman among them is a total sadist. She's like a, you know, sort of uber dominatrix type. And she is responsible for the trafficking of minors to be sex slaves for powerful men on these interplanetary colonies. And these ships are running this cargo of, like, you know, abused young people who are being basically sold into sexual slavery, you know, between various star systems. And so here this guy writes this book. And when I was a Dalton, this book was behind a glass display case in the library. So I became aware of it when I was like, yeah, that book there. And matter of fact, that was the edition that was behind the. And there was a hardcover edition, too, that had a blue cover.

[Danny Jones]

It's got seven reviews. Let's see what the review says. $418.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I have a copy.

[Danny Jones]

That's fucking nuts, dude.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So this shit was behind a glass display case. A slightly gothic interplanetary tale you imagine you have. Okay, so the Dalton Library was accessible to middle schoolers and high schoolers. Middle schoolers, too. So you're in like fourth grade, fifth grade. I saw that when I was in fifth grade for the first time. You go into the library, and there behind the glass display case are these sci fi books. And I was into Sci fi, Okay. I read the whole foundation trilogy back in those days. Tell you something else interesting about that in a moment. So you're into sci fi. You see these sci fi books, you know. Oh, they were written by the headmaster of the Dalton School, a guy who in the late 70s was the headmaster of the Dalton School. So imagine you're like a fifth grader and you're reading this shit right at the Dalton School. Okay? So I mentioned the foundation trilogy. The woman who ran the library at the Dalton School was married to a professor of mine that I got very close to. And in very short order, like, okay, with. I was a student. And then within a year, after having been his student, as I was going into high school, I was a student in middle school, it became clear he was trying to recruit me into the CIA. I was 14 years old. And I was warned by another faculty member. Matter of fact, my homeroom teacher pulled me aside and said, like. Because she saw me having conversations with him in the hall.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And I had written. I was always crazy. In the eighth grade, I wrote a 60 page report. We're supposed to write like a 12 page paper or something. I wrote this 60 page report about Iran's nuclear intentions and capabilities.

[Danny Jones]

At what age?

[Jason Giorgiani]

13, 14. Yeah, my history teacher, this woman, the same one who warned me about this guy, she took the thing and, and she said, she goes, I asked for a term paper, not a dissertation. She goes, which half of this do you want me to read? Anyway, she read the whole thing. And then later I met her husband and man, was he pissed off at me. He's like, she spends all her time reading your papers. What is this? You're in middle school, kid. Like, what? Anyway, so she had seen me in the hallway with this other teacher of mine and he had handed me at one point a classified assessment of Iran's nuclear capabilities as part of an attempt to recruit me. And he said to me, you don't cite this in your paper, but you can read it and it will give you leads and you'll get ideas of what to look for in other places. Okay? And so she saw me with this guy and like, him giving me this stuff that I used in the paper that I submitted to her. And she confronted me and was like, listen, we all know here he works for the CIA. And I subsequently found out that in fact, the CIA, the name of it is escaping me right now, but I think I put it in the article. Yes, I put it in the article about Maxwell. They had a program to do this where they sent recruiters even to high schools. And what they would do is they would offer to pay for your college if you agreed to work for the agency when you were already in high school. They were trying to recruit a certain.

[Danny Jones]

Type of young, very young person, high IQ people.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. And who think a certain way. And so this guy tried to recruit me, and his wife is running the library. So his wife is making lists of. So how did they recruit? His wife would make lists of all the books being taken out by various students and identify, based on their interests, the young people who could be promising candidates. So, so convenient. The wife was the librarian, the library where space relations was on display, and this teacher was a recruiter. And both of them were hired by Donald Barr, the same guy who hired Jeffrey Epstein in the late 1970s.

[Danny Jones]

I think there's a picture of them. It was like a class photo of Bill Barr and Epstein. And like.

[Jason Giorgiani]

It's in the yearbook.

[Danny Jones]

In the yearbook.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I put it in my article and they're together and it's in the same. They're from the same yearbook. Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

It's ins. It's insane. They look. They look like almost identical to the way they look now, just a little bit older. So it's a dead ringer that it's them.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yep. So Jeffrey Epstein's work with the CIA began then because Donald Barr was CIA, and Donald Barr hired the CIA guy who tried to recruit me into the CIA when I was 14 years old, by the way. Obviously, I said no. Okay. For the same reason that I turned down the Mossad years ago. You know, I had lunch with these two individuals who I mentioned. They were not the ones who made that offer. Later on, I. Very long story short, because this is sort of off our subject matter, but just because, you know, people are going to. People talk all kinds of. Of crap, and they're going to be like, oh, Georgiani doesn't want to talk about Epstein because, you know, maybe he also works for the Mossad. Whatever.

[Danny Jones]

We're talking about Epstein, trust me.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. So later, in the course of that same lobbying effort, I. I wrote to Benjamin Netanyahu directly. And matter of fact, what happened was I wrote to Defense Minister Lieberman and Bibi kicked him out of the cabinet and took over his position, which is very unusual because he was serving as Prime Minister. And then he took over the Defense minute Minister's position and served them both at the same time. And when he took over Lieberman's position, they found my letter on Lieberman's desk, and I was told from Jerusalem, rewrite this letter and address it to Prime Minister Netanyahu directly. So I did that, and then somebody else from the Mossad offered to hire me and they basically literally, like, hire me, like salaried, etc. At which point I cut off all communication with the Israelis. I was deeply offended because we were doing very high level work. Like I was trying to set up a meeting where important figures in the Iranian opposition would come to Israel and we would meet with the Prime Minister and other figures and so forth. Right. Which eventually did happen, by the way. That happened within the last year and a half where, you know, Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi went to Israel and even met with Netanyahu and other officials. So this eventually took place. And basically I was trying to set this up back then and I was like, you want to buy me, I'm like a diplomatic liaison and you want to turn me into an asset or agent of yours. So I had no communication with the Israelis ever again after that.

[Danny Jones]

So you think, do you think the reason that they might have tried to recruit you is because that you were advocating for regime change in Iran and they thought that you, your values would have lined up because obviously they knew you weren't Jewish, right?

[Jason Giorgiani]

No, they wanted to control me. Look, I mean, obviously I was advocating for something that's to the benefit of Israel.

[Danny Jones]

Exactly.

[Jason Giorgiani]

But it's one thing for me to be a free agent doing that and to have high level meetings with them where then I have all kinds of information that potentially they don't want in the public sphere. So it's better for them if I'm doing that work as someone who's controlled by them because he's being paid by them. Right. So, I mean, it makes perfect sense. But it really pissed me off. I was.

[Danny Jones]

Right. But it's a risk to try to recruit you. Right. Like, it's obviously a risk. So I'm wondering, I'm wondering, you know, maybe they were just, you know, averse to those kind of risks at that.

[Jason Giorgiani]

It's a risk. But look, if I become a problem, they can just off me.

[Danny Jones]

Sure, that's true.

[Jason Giorgiani]

You know.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah. I've had multiple people tell me, I.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Mean, they might still do that. I don't think they're going to be very happy with my saying this here right now, but.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, well, I mean, I don't think they're happy with a lot of the stuff that's on podcast talking about Israel.

[Jason Giorgiani]

There you go.

[Danny Jones]

So I think it's beyond their so people.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So people like, who look at what I post and statements I've made in various interviews about Israel. You know, you're completely deluded if you think I'm some kind of a paid agent or asset of Israel. Matter of fact, I have no communication with them whatsoever and haven't had since they offered to hire me. I don't know, what was it, 20, 20, 20? Late 2019, early 20, 20, 20, something like that. I support Israel for certain very strategic reasons that you know, I could lay out that have to do with my own aims and goals and my strategic vision of the world. It has absolutely nothing to do with any connection to their government. None whatsoever.

[Danny Jones]

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[Jason Giorgiani]

What those strategic aims? Okay. I mean, I can tell you.

[Danny Jones]

High level.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, high level. Demographic projections show that by the year 2075 we will have A Muslim majority on this planet. I spent a great deal of time studying Islam in depth and detail. My master's thesis was on Islam and universal human rights. And I went into the Quran, you know, like into the weeds of it, into the whole Islamic legal tradition. In other words, the construction of Sharia law from out of the Quran. Okay, and if people want to see, you know, my analysis of that, they should read my book, World State of Emergency, which came out in 20. And in that book, World State of Emergency, I argue very clearly for why Islam is not reformable. Number one, Islam is not reformable. You know, I'm no fan of Christianity. You've heard me criticize it on your show. But there are fundamental structural and historical differences between Christianity and Islam. Christianity is a religion that came into being 300 years after the time of Jesus. There were a plethora of divergent and conflicting Christian sects at the time and many rival interpretations of the scriptures. And these four gospels that wound up being canonized in Nicaea also conflict with one another. Not to mention the tens of gospels that were rejected at Nicaea and could retrospectively be considered equally Christian. Okay, so Christianity is a historical process that took several centuries to evolve. And then after Nicaea, the church, over time, over another subsequent millennium, broke up into many different pieces. The Orthodox broke from the Catholics. Then you had the Protestant Reformation. You got hundreds of different Protestant sects. So Christianity is this very polymorphic phenomenon. And even if you want to reject the whole of it, which I do, from a sociological and political standpoint, it's fundamentally different from Islam. The Quran was authored by Muhammad. It was written down in the lifetime of Muhammad by his scribes on the shoulder blade, bones of camels, and then subsequently transcribed onto paper. We have not found any divergent copies of the Quran. In other words, there are no alternate versions of the Quran that have survived. So we have to assume that it's been consistently preserved since the time of Muhammad. And what people call Sharia law. In other words, you know, Islamic jurisprudence is entirely grounded in the Quran. Yes, complex legal systems were built up from out of it later. But the, you know, injunctions about cutting off a thief's arm if he steals, or that a woman only inherits half the property of a man, or that you should beat your wife if she gets out of line, or how you should treat your slaves, meaning slavery, is completely justified by Allah. All of this stuff is in the Quran itself. And most importantly, as I lay out in that. In that part of world, state of emergency, by the way, I have an article on my substack that reiterates some of these core points about Islam that I came out with recently so people could look at that, too. It's called Muhammad's Despicable Religion. So the most important point is that in the.

[Danny Jones]

What year was the Quran written again?

[Jason Giorgiani]

In the six thirties. In six hundred and twenties. Six hundred and twenties, okay. Yeah. It was written over a period of 20 some odd years.

[Danny Jones]

Okay.

[Jason Giorgiani]

22 years. And so the most important thing is in the Quran, multiple times, Allah says, remember, the Quran is not written by Muhammad. He's a channeler. Allah is speaking through him. And Allah refers to Muhammad in the third person. Whenever Muhammad is referred to, he's referred to out of Muhammad's own mouth in the third person. And there's some very weird passages in there that have convinced me that he didn't make it up. It's a genuine work of channeling. Okay, so whatever channelers do. Look, channelers are a dime a dozen. We got plenty of them. You go any New age section of a bookstore, you can find, like, books by five different channelers who claim that God is talking through them. All right? Muhammad was one of these people, okay?

[Danny Jones]

And you think he wasn't grifting.

[Jason Giorgiani]

You think he was doing.

[Danny Jones]

You think he was really?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. And in fact, to be fair to Muhammad, and I hate to be fair to Muhammad, but to be fair to Muhammad, his initial reaction was that either I'm losing my marbles or I'm being possessed by demons. He ran out of that cave where he encountered gay. So he's in this cave by himself, and somebody comes up and grabs him from behind, and he tries to get free. And the person or entity behind him says, recite, recite. And he's like, I'm illiterate. I'm illiterate. Recite what? And all of a sudden, this stream of narrative, like, comes through his mind and he starts reciting it. And he runs out of that cave like, you know, like, with the bejesus scared out of him. And by the way, on the way out of that, scampering down the hillside out of that cave, he sees a ufo. And he hears the same voice that told him to recite. He hears it coming from out of the ufo. And he turns his head, he's like, you know, like, what am I. Am I really seeing this? And the thing follows him across.

[Danny Jones]

This is in the Quran.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And then later in the Hadith. The Hadith are the. It's in the Quran. But later in the Hadith, you have a much richer version of this. The hadith are the traditions of what Muhammad said and did passed down through the people who knew him. And so anyway, he gets home to his wife and he says, listen, I'm either losing my fucking marbles or demons are trying to possess me. And his wife had a few Christian friends, and these stupid Christian women convinced Muhammad that God was really talking to him. Okay? So he started to take himself seriously, and then it became a power trip after that. Anyway, the important point I was trying to make is that in the Quran itself, Allah repeatedly claims, this is a complete and perfect book. You are not at liberty to follow some parts of it and reject other parts of it. You cannot change any part of it. It's a word. Once and for all, it will remain valid for eternity until the day of judgment. Okay? Meaning that all the legal verses in the Quran are unchangeable and they have to be followed, you know, to the dot of an I and cross of a T. And that's the basis of Sharia law. Okay, so now to go back to the demographics. By 2075, the trends show we're going to have a Muslim majority on this planet.

[Danny Jones]

And who. Who projected this?

[Jason Giorgiani]

You can look it up. There's various different, you know, demographics, projections. Okay, maybe the even more disturbing projection is, is that much sooner than 2075, maybe by 2050, some of the largest metropolitan areas in Europe are going to be Muslim majority. And we see what's already happening in Britain. Oh, yeah, okay. And next is going to be either France or Germany. And look, it's the metropolitan. For better or for worse, it's the metropolitan areas of a country that define its constitution, and they are becoming, you know, majority Muslim.

[Danny Jones]

Google AI says yes, the global Muslim population is projected to become the majority by 2075, according to this, a study by the Pew Research Center. And this is due to the higher Muslim birth rate, which is projected to cause the number of Muslim babies born to outnumber Christian babies within the next two decades. By the end of the century, Muslims are expected to be about 34.9% the world's population, compared to 33.8 for Christians.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Whoa. Now what's worse? That's nuts. Yeah, what's worse? As I just said, what's worse is that they're going to be a majority in Europe. Well, before that. And by majority, I mean decisive political majority. So if you look at the history of Lebanon, modern Lebanon, Lebanon was a diverse country that included many Lebanese Christians, people with strong cultural ties to France. You Know, very secular Western mindset. And then the Shiite Muslim population started to grow and at a certain point when it became around 30 something percent, the Muslims basically tried to take over the whole country. And we had the Lebanese civil war and the creation of Hezbollah and Lebanon turned into this horrific, violence ridden, failed state that it was is to this day. Okay, so, and this is a pattern you see all throughout history is that when Muslims get to a certain sizable minority, not even a majority.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They basically bully everybody else around them into submission.

[Danny Jones]

But let me ask you a question.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. You're asking me about why do I support Israel? So we'll come back.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, yeah. We're getting deep down a rabbit hole. So it's important to set it up. It is important. I think so too. When you, when you talk about Muslims, Right. You're obviously broad brush a large group of people. Like when you refer to Christians. Right. I know a ton of Christians who are great people, loving, kind.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Because, because you're allowed to be as.

[Danny Jones]

A Christian and because I also know that there is the children of God cult where they literally like children.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

So like are we talking about jihadists or are we talking, you know, Jihad.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Is the responsibility and duty of every single Muslim. The Quran says so. The Quran is absolute. It is a set in stone prescription for all time. As I just said, it repeats this claim over and over again. So it's completely different from the Bible. The Bible is massively internally contradictory and has been composed over hundreds of years by many different authors.

[Danny Jones]

Yes.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And it's been fought over from the beginning, fiercely. I mean, the Gnostic sects didn't even agree with each other, let alone the Gnostic sects and the Orthodox sects. And okay, it's a shit show. The formation of Christianity. Islam is monolithic in its core belief structure. The only thing they fought about which caused the Shiite versus Sunni schism was a leadership question. There was a fight over who the legitimate successors to Muhammad were. Was it the Sunni Khalifs or was it blood descendants of Muhammad through Ali? That's the only thing they fought. They did not fight over what Quran says and what an Islamic society should look like. So my point is this. Yeah, of course there are many decent Muslim Muslims, people born into Islam that.

[Danny Jones]

Don'T believe all this shit in the.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Quran because they don't know it and they haven't read it. And what happens is once you have a sizable enough Muslim minority, not even majority, it's always the fundamentalist meaning the, the basic core message of the Quran that monopolizes discourse. And then the Muslims who are devout, meaning they're truly adherent to the Quran, wind up intimidating all the other Muslims into compliance. And this, of course, happened in Iran. I mean, this is like, this is the story of, you know, post 1979 Iran, where the vast majority of people couldn't have cared really less about Islam, but there was an increasingly large minority of people who took the Quran seriously and took their duties as Muslims seriously. And these people eventually took the entire society hostage. And now we've had 46 years of a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy there. Okay, and you see this pattern all across the Islamic world. Now, to go back to why is it that I support Israel?

[Danny Jones]

Well, I want to clear it. Like, what you said does make a lot of sense when you're looking at Islam and you explained it as being a monolith versus Christianity, as it being just fractured into many different sects. Like, if there was going to be some collision course of, yes, right and left, or Muslim Islam and Christianity, you would see how Islam would win.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Also, Danny, I don't know if that's. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God? Okay, so all throughout the Gospels, you see these very contradictory gospels written by many different authors, unreliable witnesses, et cetera, versus the Quran coming out of Muhammad's mouth. In these Gospels, you see Jesus repeatedly say that it's not our business to take political power.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So actually, the evangelicals who want to create a biblical republic in the United States are not very good Christians because Jesus repeatedly disavows the use of force to take political power.

[Danny Jones]

Peter Thiel and some of these other people in the White House, like, Peter Thiel's trying to, like, paint Christianity onto everything in Silicon Valley and do these. These press conferences on the Antichrist and.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, well, and. And all of the evangelical megachurches that have had a hold on political power in this country since George W. Bush. Right. At least. So they're not very good Christians, because Jesus, I mean, look, he says many contradictory things, but one fairly consistent message. I can't believe I'm finding myself, like, advocating anything, you know, on behalf of Jesus, of other people. But look, he basically is a pacifist, and he disavows the use of force and political coercion, you know, as a means of furthering righteousness. I mean, this is really pretty much at the core of the Christian message. And so, for example, like, you know, as much as the Catholic Church was in bed with various potentates throughout the European history. They were still distinct entities. You had various European royal families and kingdoms and, you know, now and then one or another one would be more closely aligned with the Vatican, you see. But there was never one monolithic institution. The caliphate, the Khalifa, from the beginning was the complete unity of what we would call in the west, church and state. It's a non distinction. It is a radical theocracy. Islam calls for radical theocracy. You cannot separate the church from the state at all.

[Danny Jones]

Is it baked into their education system too?

[Jason Giorgiani]

100%. They memorize the Quran from childhood. Okay. So matter of fact, the reason they do that, it's called becoming a hafiz. The reason they do that is so that in case the written copies of the Quran are ever lost or it's ever in doubt what it said, the Quran will be in the memories of thousands of people. They can recompose the book.

[Danny Jones]

Wow.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Now Israel, okay? So if the world is going to be majority Muslim by 2075, and if the metropolitan areas of Europe are going to be taken over by Islam by 2050, which means constitutionally, we're going to lose the secular west, you know, in another quarter century at the very latest. Actually don't think it's going to take that long. Who's going to stop a global Islamic caliphate from coming into being?

[Danny Jones]

Well, we have much better weapons than they do.

[Jason Giorgiani]

You know what? We don't have the political will. We don't have the political will and.

[Danny Jones]

We have a higher idea.

[Jason Giorgiani]

If we had the political will, Dearborn, Michigan wouldn't look like what it does.

[Danny Jones]

It doesn't matter what the people want, though. It's what the people in power want.

[Jason Giorgiani]

The people in power have been completely inept and impotent in terms of confronting the Islamic threat, including our current president, Donald Trump, who's in bed with the Saudis. Okay. And with the Qatari, the Qataris. You know, Qatar is the worst financier of radical Islamic terrorism in the world. And Trump is in bed with the Qataris and now also the Saudis. He extended Article 5 NATO grade protection to both Qatar and Saudi Arabia. This is not a political leadership that has the will to confront Islam. It's a political leadership that will continue to make money and do deals with anybody who has money. Yeah, okay, So I don't trust the United States government to protect us from the demographic and sociological inevitability of a global Islamic caliphate. You know what? I trust this little country, smaller than New Jersey, that's stuck in the middle of the fucking Islamic world, okay, Between Morocco and, you know, Afghanistan and Pakistan and this little country's arsenal of 300 nuclear weapons. Because the last thing the Israelis are going to allow is for them to be subsumed and dominated and integrated into a global Islamic caliphate. They know the history of what happens to Jews in Islamic societies going all the way back to Muhammad. You know, Muhammad's first preaching target, his first group of people he wanted to evangelize to and have convert to Islam, have accept Islam, accept submission, were the Jews in Medina. When Muhammad became governor of the city of Medina, which used to be called Yathrib, they changed it to Medina Al Nabi, meaning the city of the prophet of Muhammad. It became the Caesar, the local Caesar. He was after the Jews there. And he was like, listen, I'm just preaching the same thing Moses preached. You know, this is the updated versions, version 3.0, right? So except Jesus, he was a prophet too. And, you know, I got this new version of the kosher laws and all this, and they wouldn't accept it. So he massacred them. And from the time of Muhammad onward, Jews have been treated as third class citizens in Islamic societies. So there is no way that the state of Israel, with its significant nuclear arsenal is going to allow the rise and consolidation of power of a global Islamic caliphate. And so, long story short, that's a major reason why I support Israel. And then there are other less significant ones.

[Danny Jones]

Israel is. First of all, I just had this, or I was just listening to my friend John Kiriakou went on my friend Julian Doris podcast, and he was. John is a former CIA officer who blew the whistle on the torture program and went to jail, went to prison for two years for it. And he has a source really close to Trump who told him before Trump did the bunker buster bombs in, in Iran, Netanyahu went to Trump and said, we're going to nuke Iran if you guys don't intervene with, with American military power. And that's when Trump decided to bomb Iran, according to John's source.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay?

[Danny Jones]

And so, so Israel, Netanyahu went to Donald Trump and said, we are going to nuke Iran if you don't intervene with military power. And this is a country that does not, is not in the IAEA treat treaty, officially is not allowed to have a nuclear program unless you, you know, believe the whistleblowers that have come out over the years.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Two things. First, I doubt that that's true, and I doubt it's true because as you can imagine, with my History of involvement. I followed the 12 day war very closely and I was in constant communication with people. And from my understanding of what happened, the Israelis did not want any significant American military support beyond aerial refueling and beyond air defense support. They wanted to carry out this OPER to its conclusion themselves. And the objective of the operation was regime change in Iran. The objective was not taking out Iran's nuclear facilities because by the way, you cannot take out Iran's nuclear facilities successfully with that kind of an operation. The objective was regime change. And they had at least one month long plan. Remember, the war lasted 12 days. The Israelis had at least one month long plan and they had anticipated. I forget what the exact number was, but it was some horrendously large number of casualties that they were going to sustain from Iranian missile attacks. Thousands and thousands. I don't remember the exact number, but you know, they went into it thinking, okay, well you know, with the missile capability they have, we're going to lose like four or five thousand people. Didn't lose anywhere near, near that number. Okay, so they over, they overestimated Iran's missile capabilities anyway, point being, they were willing to, to ride it out to the conclusion, which was regime change. And one of the reasons why I don't buy this story now I'm gonna come back and tell you my response, assuming this is true. But let's go with why I don't buy it first, is that I was following the whole thing very closely. And what was supposed to happen at 4D, the site that Trump hit with the B2, the main one, that Trump hit with the deep bunker, busting B2. What was supposed to happen at Fordeaux was that the Israelis, like I said, I followed this very closely. The Israelis came in and they bombed everything around the Fordo site. I watched that happen. They came and they bombed everything around the Fordo site. So they isolated it from, from, they cut off all the roads, they isolated it from all the towns around it. And if anyone was left in Fordo, which probably they had already evacuated, if anyone was left, they were trapped. Okay. And then the Israelis were going to send commandos. They had found the access points of the tunnels leading down into that subterranean facility. And they were going to send a commando team in there to on site make sure that everything is blown up from the inside using dynamite, where there's not going to be any question whether they succeeded or not. And you know, the commando team was expandable and they had blown up everything around Fordo in part because they wanted to bring helicopters down both to deploy the commando team and then also to retrieve the commando team and create an area where extraction was possible. Now, if they were going to drop a nuclear bomb on Fordo, they were. I mean, like, it doesn't make any sense to develop a commando operation if you're planning to nuke the site. Your own people are going to be irradiated. They're not going to be able to go in there. Plus, if you've already taken it out with a nuke, what's the point of sending an explosives team in there to do the job? And I'm pretty confident, having followed it along, that this was the plan they had and it was only one small step in a very long operation, which, like I said, was supposed to take a month and end with the decapitation of the regime and its replacement with a secular Western style alternative. After Trump bombed Fordeau, immediately he came out and imposed a ceasefire on Israel. In other words, Donald Trump aborted Operation Rising lion and Donald Trump. And it's because this is how Trump is, okay? Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran, comes out and acts like Iran won the 12 day war. We won. We won because we're still here. Look at how resilient we are. And Trump gets pissed off by this. So Trump, being the kind of person he is, goes on a tweet storm, which any one of his advisors should have stopped him from saying this, but he goes on a tweet storm which exposes for us exactly what happened. He puts out there right there on X. I saved your life. You should be grateful. The Israelis knew where you were and they wanted to kill you. They were going to kill you, and I saved your life to the Supreme Leader of Iran. So you can imagine, by the way, the reaction in the Iranian opposition when it was realized that Donald Trump aborted a regime change operation and personally saved the life of the Supreme Leader of Iran's brutal Islamic theocracy. Yeah, that's what happened there. None of that is consistent with this idea that Trump was, and this we can see in his actual X messages, it's not consistent with the idea that he was threatened by Netanyahu that Bibi was going to drop a nuke on for them. Now, let's suppose for a moment that that story is true. Right? I've been involved with the Iranian opposition for, I don't know, 25 years, something like that. And I've seen it morph in terms of the attitudes that people have, especially inside the country, what the psychological state is inside the country. There were four failed uprisings against the Islamic Republic. And the most serious of them were 2009, 2017 into 2018, and then 2023, the woman life freedom uprising of 2023. And there was incredibly brutal suppression in each of these cases. I mean, just recently, they, you know, they're having a water crisis in Iran. Okay. They're having a massive water crisis in Iran. And so this dam, the Karaj Dam, ran dry, and they found tens of bodies of killed political dissidents at the bottom of the Karaj Dam. Once it ran dry, they found their remains. People had always said for years, like, where did they take these people? They were rounding them up, and they weren't even taking them to prison.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, I don't think. I don't think anyone would argue with you that the Iranian regime is good.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So Trump saved them. Trump saved the Iranian regime. Israel wanted to change the regime. Trump saved the regime, and he gave the reason why. He said it would be too much chaos in the region, it would disrupt business in the region too much to have the regime in Iran change.

[Danny Jones]

Trump said this?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes, he said it publicly. He tweeted it.

[Danny Jones]

Wow.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Nobody stops this guy from tweeting all this anyway, so. But let's assume that this story is true for argument's sake. I've seen the attitudes in Iran devolve rather than, let's say, evolve over the years as the regime is becoming increasingly repressive and as uprising after uprising has failed. Okay. Being crushed. And let me tell you, Danny, during the 12 Day War, not only were Iranians coming out and saying, israel hit them. We're behind you, they would graffiti this on the walls in Tehran. Okay? So they were calling for the Israeli strikes, the Iranian people, and cheering them on.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

There were parties that were filmed. The people were celebrating. Okay. But there were even people who tweeted things like, you know, even if you have to drop a nuclear bomb on our heads, it will be better than continuing to live under this regime. If we have to become Japan, where, you know, you take out Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and then we don't live under these people anymore, by all means. So that's how desperate these people are in Iran. If a nuke had been used at Fordo, it would have been used in a. What do you call it, say, Biaban in Persian? A wasteland, a deserted area to take out a deep underground facility. It's not to kill civilians.

[Danny Jones]

Underground nuke.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, exactly. A bunker busting nuke. Exactly. That's. What if this story is true? That's What Bibi was threatening to use, not to use a nuclear weapon against Iranian people. It would be the stupidest thing in the world for the Israelis to do, to use a nuclear weapon or any kind of weapon against Iranian civilians. One of the things that was very clear in the 12 Day War is that the Israelis went out of their way to issue evacuation orders to Iranians. They had Persian language spokespeople who were telling Iranians, neighborhood to neighborhood, move.

[Danny Jones]

Iran did the same exact thing when they did all their responses to Israel. They would give them warnings. They would warn them exactly what they were gonna do. Like even like days notice before they sent the drones in and stuff like that. Like they. To Israel.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes. I have no verifiable information that that's the case there.

[Danny Jones]

I mean, there was reports about this, about the, the strike in. I think there was one in Syria and then there was another one where they were retaliating to Israel's strikes.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Not in this 12 day war. In the past, they've done that in.

[Danny Jones]

The ones, I don't know, months before or this past one, this year, for sure.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Exchange that took place between Israel and Iran, that small exchange that took place like a year before the 12 Day War, nine months before it, that did happen because the Iranians were very afraid of, you know, what the response would be. And what I think you're probably confusing it with is that when the Iranians attacked supposedly our base in Qatar, they gave clear warning. They even asked Trump, like, what time would you like us to send the missiles? Right, exactly. Yes. So that did. But look, the point is this, that Iranian people are extremely desperate. Even if they had to go through Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they'd rather be rid of this regime. But Israel has no intent to put them through Hiroshima.

[Danny Jones]

So here's my question. Why is it? Why? Hold on.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Because they know the Iranians are the most pro Israel population on the planet. Israel has lost even the American population at this point, let alone any other country in the world. They're hated, completely isolated. Iran is the only potential future ally that Israel can have as a major nation. So the last thing they're going to do is alienate the Iranian population by dropping any kind of heavy munition on a civilian area.

[Danny Jones]

I get what you're saying. Winter is the time I finally get to break out my rag and bone pants. I've worn their clothes for a while, but their infused denim is in a whole nother strap stratosphere. I'm almost 40, my style's changed, my body's changed. And I'm not trying to squeeze into some stiff cardboard feeling jeans anymore. When I put on the infused jeans for the first time, it honestly ruined all the other jeans for me. The fit was perfect, structured without feeling tight and the comfort was ridiculous. They felt broken in from day one. They move with you and they keep their shape and develop character with the longer you wear them. No matter what, your style is slim, straight, relaxed or athletic, there's a cut that fits you perfectly. But the real magic is with the wash. Each pair goes through this eight step over dye process so the color has depth and texture you only usually see in super premium denim. Over time, it gets better like a fine wine. This is rag and bone doing what it does best. Two decades of denim obsession packed into a pair you'll reach for every single day. It's time to upgrade your denim with rag and bone. And for a limited time, our listeners get 20 off their entire order with the code [e-mail]. that's 20 off at rag-bone.com using the promo code Danny spelled D A N N Y. When they ask where you heard about them, please support the show and let them know we sent you. So my question is why? Why do we care? Why do we care about Iran in the United States? Why? Why do we have to go over there and spend billions of taxpayer dollars to drop bombs on Iran? What the are they doing to to. What is Iran doing that's diminishing the quality of my or your life?

[Jason Giorgiani]

In the great power game geopolitically between the United States, China and Russia, not to mention the threat of a global Islamic caliphate that we just spent 20 minutes talking about, Iran is the most key piece on the chessboard. If you look at Iran throughout the course of history, it has been the nexus between the eastern and the western world, between the north and the south of the world, okay? It sits between India, China, Russia, Europe and the Islamic world. And it sits in the middle of massive oil and gas resources, okay? And it's the only country in history that has had five successive world empires, okay? First Persian Empire, the Achaemenids, Parthian Empire, Sassanid Empire, Safavid Empire. The last empire of Iran was. It ended roughly about the time the United States was born. So the American Revolution happened right about at the end of the last empire of Iran, which stretched from northern India from where the Taj Mahal is all the way into, like, halfway into Turkey, okay? So this is a country that's demonstrated that it's more effective at building world empires. Than the Romans. And it's rebuilt those empires five times in history. It survived a Greek invasion, an Arab invasion, a Turkic invasion, Mongols, Genghis Khan's people. And it was the world's leader in science and technology. Between 900 and 1100, most of the scientific research and technological innovation in the world was taking place in Iran, which is misnamed the Islamic Golden Age. It was happening despite Islam and in opposition to Islam. And the leading lights of it were all like secular rationalists who hated Islam. So, like Omar Khayyam. So. Or Razi. So this country is a battery. It's a key. It's a battery. You control this country and you may have a chance at rivaling China and Russia. If China and Russia control this country, we're fucked. Okay? It's geostrategically vital. And remember, the Iranians used to be allies of the United States under the Pahlavi regime. Iran was a very close strategic ally of the United States States. So it would be a resumption of a relationship that existed on a much higher, or you could say on a much deeper and more organic level, because now it's coming not from the leadership in Iran, but from the people who are overwhelmingly pro American. Okay, so point being, it's a travesty that we went into Iraq. It's a travesty that because of, you know, Halliburton and you know, to enrich Dick Cheney, we went into Iraq. Or that we spent, what was it how, 20 years in Afghanistan, something like that. Even though, you know, good intelligence shows that actually Osama bin Laden died early on and there was no reason for us to be in Afghanistan for that long. And then we left it in such a humiliating manner. These are travesties. We shouldn't have been in these places to begin with. And now the American population, as a result, doesn't want an entanglement and engagement in an area that actually is geostrategically vital for the long term rivalry between the United States and other world powers.

[Danny Jones]

When it comes to all of the, for all of those wars that we've been dragged into, into the Middle east since the Iraq war. And you know, not to mention Netanyahu trying to convince every single one of our presidents since, what, Bush, that Iran has a nuke there. What he, the quote was, they are months away from having a nuclear weapon. And that's been the same thing for how many years now? How many decades now?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Well, you know what's interesting about that, which, this can be a nice segue back to the Dalton School. And then the Epstein conversation, which we got derailed.

[Danny Jones]

Yes, exactly.

[Jason Giorgiani]

An interesting thing about that is, as you, you may recall, you know, I was telling you about this paper I wrote on Iran's nuclear ambitions back when I was 14 and the intelligence that this guy, this teacher of mine shared with me, the CIA recruiter. So I followed Bibi's remarks on Iran through all these decades. And I kind of don't want to say this, but fuck it, I'll say it anyway. The idea that Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons already doesn't make any sense. If you've really followed the Iranian nuclear program for decades, as I have, it's not believable. In other words, Bibi was right when he started saying back in the day, oh, Iran is two years away from having a nuke. Iran is six months away from having a nuke. I think Iran has a clandestine nuclear arsenal. Now, I don't really want to be saying that because I want regime change to take place in Iran. And, you know, one major dissuasion to anyone trying to force regime change in Iran is if, you know, there's a nuclear arsenal already existent there. But I think it's likely.

[Danny Jones]

And what do you make of the whole October 7th thing? You know, there's that video of Charlie Kirk when He was on PBD's podcast, who, you know, Charlie Kirk's been like, super supportive of Israel through his whole entire career from when he was young. Visited there, you know, dozens of times. And he was like, I think he quoted, he said, from Jerusalem to the Gaza border is like a 30 minute helicopter ride. He's like, why was there no response for six hours? And he was like, he's like, I'm, he's like, I have to be careful how I say this, but was there a legitimate stand down order on October 7th?

[Jason Giorgiani]

I'll tell you what I think happened. And if you want to see that I have no official ties to the Israelis, here you go. Because anyone who did prove it, anyone who, anyone who did, wouldn't say the following. One of the things that became very clear to me in the course of my. First of all, I grew up with these people, okay? Dalton was 70% Jewish. 60, at least. 60%, 70% Jewish in terms of the demographic of the students and parents. I mean, these are Jeffrey Epstein's business connections. He developed a lot of his business connections through his involvement with Dalton parents who then got him the jobs at Bear Stearns. That's how he got those jobs. He got them networking with Dalton parents. Anyway, so I grew up with these people, and I know this from having grown up in that milieu. But then, you know, also in the years I was lobbying for regime change in Iran and had some engagement with the Israelis, it became much more clear to me that there's a whole subset of people in the political and military intelligence establishment of Israel who are basically Russian dual citizens and double agents who work both for the Kremlin and for Israel. And for a long time, that wasn't a problem because Benjamin Netanyahu, in particular, walked a very fine line in terms of maintaining his alliance with the United States and also maintaining what was a somewhat personal friendship with Vladimir Putin. Putin and Bibi were close. When the Ukraine war started, the United States began pressuring Israel to send munitions to Ukraine because we didn't want to have to send Ukraine more weapons. We were asking the Israelis to send munitions to Ukraine. And Netanyahu kept refusing to do this because he had a relationship with Putin. Finally, Netanyahu, I think it was something like, I don't want to, you know, make up a number, but it was, like, roughly six months before October 7th. Within, like, six months of October 7th, Netanyahu agreed to ship a ton of munitions to Ukraine. I mean, Israel sent so many munitions to Ukraine that when their own war started in Gaza, they were low on artillery. So you can imagine what Putin's response to this would be. I mean, first of all, you know, Israel and Russia maintained a very close strategic relationship. But also, he had a personal rapport with Netanyahu. And here's Netanyahu arming the Ukrainians to kill Russians en masse. You follow?

[Danny Jones]

Mm.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay. Well, I think what happened on October 7 was that a group of military intelligence operatives in Israel, who also answered to the Kremlin and who are double agents, stood down, and that the Russians, probably through Iran, offered certain tactical support to that operation. And Netanyahu and the Israeli establishment can never say that, because if they ever. First of all, if you admit. I mean, it would be like the United States telling The truth about 9, 11. If you admit that your military and intelligence infrastructure, your. Your, you know, network is so deeply compromised that an operation like that could be pulled off. Well, number one, I mean, the taxpayers are going to hang you.

[Danny Jones]

Yes.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay. Number two. Actually, this is really. That's number two. Number one is you can't admit it because it's nuclear war. Are you kidding me? Like, if Israel came out and said, oh, yeah, actually, Russia played a role in October 7th. Well, it's a Nuclear war at that point between Israel and Russia. And you know, what that's going to become is a nuclear war between the United States and Russia very quickly because of all the evangelicals in this country who, you know, believe that the security of Israel is the security of the United States. And so no one can tell that truth. But I think that's what happened that day.

[Danny Jones]

That's wild. You don't think it was a. Had anything to do with, like a pretext to fucking carpet bomb Gaza and murder all those people?

[Jason Giorgiani]

No, because, you know, this is diseased brain thinking, cui bono? Who benefits? Who benefits? What's the end result? The end result of this is Israel is infamous in the world, has no allies left, and, and everybody who had any doubt now hates Israel and the Jews. You think they're stupid?

[Danny Jones]

Well, Netanyahu doesn't seem to be as on the ball as he used to be.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Nah, he seems to be a little ignorant.

[Danny Jones]

I mean, there's, there's videos of him saying shit. That's just like, what are you thinking?

[Jason Giorgiani]

That that's like blaming the geostrategic failures of the United States on the vegetable who we had as president for four years, you know? Right. The auto pen. Right. Israel has an incredibly sophisticated, multi layered, you know, redundancy, you know, set political system. It's not up to Benjamin Netanyahu and whether he's becoming senile or whatever.

[Danny Jones]

Did you see that video? Him talking to those reporters? He's like, what do we have to control? Next class. Sitting up there like a mobster class. What's the answer?

[Jason Giorgiani]

No.

[Danny Jones]

Tick tock. We have to control. Tick tock.

[Jason Giorgiani]

No, I, I wouldn't deny that he's a mobster, but, you know, Donald Trump is a mobster by the same. By the same token. Okay, which brings us back to Epstein via Meyer Lansky. Via Meyer Lansky. So one thing that these people who rant against Israel don't understand is that the Jewish influence in the United States and the criminal activities that are, that are connected to what Epstein was doing are not an extension of the state power of Israel. They are, in many cases, results of operations being fielded by the Jewish mafia in the United States of American Jews like Meyer Lansky, who was connected to the Italian mob on the one hand, who was working with the CIA. Okay, so this does not translate into, oh, Mossad was running whatever operation. Sure.

[Danny Jones]

But, like, what do you make of all. I mean, you have multiple intelligence people in the intelligence community here in the United States who will attest to the fact that the Mossad has more undeclared agents in the United States than any other foreign intelligence agency, number one. Number two, you have. You have politicians being paid for by Israel and they're instituting laws and states. Like, you had Desantis, by the way.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I don't think that could possibly be true.

[Danny Jones]

DeSantis came here and. And put in a blasphemy law.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. The thing about the most unregistered Whatever agents. That can't possibly be true. The answer to be China. It has to be China. I mean, if you look at the size of the. And scale of the Chinatowns in every major American city and how much American farmland's been bought up by the Chinese and how much of it is next to our sensitive military facilities, and what kind of brokering would have. Would have had to take place for that to happen. Clearly, if we're, you know, the country that's most penetrated us on an intelligence level is China.

[Danny Jones]

I wouldn't argue with you there. I wouldn't argue with you there. But China is also not our friend. It's not our ally.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Right. You want to know an interesting story that has to do with China and Israel? Get this. Because this also sheds a spotlight on. On how the world works. High level CIA officer told me that he was responsible for going to a warehouse in China. This individual spoke Chinese and could deal very fluidly with the Chinese. I'll leave it at that. And he was responsible in the 1990s for going to a warehouse in China to confirm delivery of state of the art American military hardware that was being sent from Israel to China. And the situation was that we were sending state of the art military hardware to Israel and telling the Israelis, now, listen, you can keep like 70% of this shipment. We want the other 30% to go to China. You understand? And the Israelis were like, what the fuck are you people doing? They're your rival. Why are you. Listen, either you ship it to China or we're not gonna ship it to you. And they had this pipeline basically set up where we would send this stuff to the Israelis and they would take a certain percentage of all that and they would repackage it and ship it to China. And this CIA officer was stationed in the warehouse in China to confirm delivery of the fighter jets and the missile systems and so on and so forth. Okay, so look, the world works in a much more complicated way than people imagine. Like, what is the objective there? Who.

[Danny Jones]

Maybe it's more complicated. So what was that about? Do you know?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, it's A good question. I mean, I don't have a definitive interpretation, but one thing I can tell you is this. Imagine if that were to ever get out, but not the whole truth of it. Imagine if someday we see a story in, you know, the newspaper and a story on Fox News that Israel took American military hardware and armed China with it. See how that could be used to further compromise Israel's position.

[Danny Jones]

Sure.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I wonder how many things like that have taken place where, you know, the Israelis have been put in a position where they have to do things that later can be used as collateral to compromise them.

[Danny Jones]

The Israelis are doing things that could be used as collateral to compromise them.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. And this has been going on for a very long time. Like, for example, how.

[Danny Jones]

How. In. In what world is. Does it make sense that one of our, quote, unquote, biggest allies is infiltrating us with their intelligence service undeclared. And implementing laws, buying off our politicians? Meanwhile, we're sending them billions of dollars in tax. In tax money every single year. And. Yeah, I mean, the list goes on. Then you have the whole Epstein thing, which we'll get into, you know, blackmailing people.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. Okay, so it's like, let's go here. This is another good angle from which to understand what Epstein was up to and why, you know, who set up the Deep State in this country. People throw around this term, Deep State, Right. They used to call it the military industrial complex. That's what Eisenhower called it. Although obviously it involves intelligence and corporations as much as military industrial.

[Danny Jones]

I imagine it wasn't one person who did it.

[Jason Giorgiani]

No. But who set up the military Industrial intelligence corporate complex in the United States, which we now call the Deep State, were a bunch of Nazis and a bunch of Americans who helped set up the Nazis in Germany. Okay? So throughout the 1930s, the Dulles brothers and Rockefeller and J.P. morgan had a company in New York that financed the rise of both the Reich in Germany and Mussolini in Italy. And this same Allen Dulles, who was working with his brother, John Foster Dulles, the same Allen Dulles who eventually becomes the director of the CIA, was seen in Prague in 1944 at the height of the war with Germany, at the Skoda Works, the most sensitive German military industrial facility in the entire Reich, where the Germans were working on nuclear fusion, plasma, and electrogravitics. And the story comes from John Warner iv, who is from the same family as Chris Mellon, the famous Mellon family. Okay? And John Warner says that I believe it was his father, member of the Mellon family, was friends with Allen Dulles that Allen Dulles would talk about how he went to this place, this facility in Prague, and he saw a Nazi flying saucer. And this is in 1944, while the war is still going on. So how was he able to get past enemy lines? What, was he there at the invitation of the Nazis? Yes, he was there at the invitation of the Nazis. If you look at the. The ending of World War II, a number of very bizarre things take place that are integral to the formation of the American deep state. The first of them. Is that so? Okay, let's. Again, let's keep it in mind that financiers in New York funneled money to create Nazi Germany in the first place.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And there was a huge Nazi contingent here in America. A lot of people don't know that there were so many American Nazis even in New York, that on Long island there was a place called Camp Siegfried, which was a Nazi youth training camp. Nazi youth militia training camp.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And there were daily trains from like Penn Station. They called it the Siegfried Express. You'd go to. These people lived in Manhattan. They sent their kids to this place. You'd go on this hour, ride out to Long island and train at Camp Siegfried. This went on all through the 1930s.

[Danny Jones]

Didn't they have Nazi rallies in Madison Square Garden?

[Jason Giorgiani]

The Camp Secret people.

[Danny Jones]

You can find photos of it, right?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes. The Camp secret people went to Madison Square Garden and held a huge Nazi rally there.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay. And the movement was called America First. That was the name of the.

[Danny Jones]

Shut up.

[Jason Giorgiani]

America First.

[Danny Jones]

Okay, Steve, find an image. Type in like Nazis at Madison, everybody.

[Jason Giorgiani]

America First. They wanted Charles Lindbergh to become President of the United States.

[Danny Jones]

How dare you try to smear Nick Fuentes like that?

[Jason Giorgiani]

They want to try. I'm showing you what's actually going on today.

[Danny Jones]

I'm just kidding.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They want. No, it's not a joke. It's actually. Yeah, it's very serious matter where we're headed sociopolitically in this country. This dude. America First.

[Danny Jones]

Top left.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Look at that.

[Danny Jones]

America's hold a Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden. Where does it say America First?

[Jason Giorgiani]

You can look it up. America First. Find that Charles Lindbergh. America First. American Nazis.

[Danny Jones]

Anyway, see if you can find it.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So there was a huge social support. You gotta remember that time World War II broke out. One fourth of Americans were German by ancestry. One fourth of America was German by ancestry. And there were a lot of other non German sympathizers. So there was a huge social support base for this in America. And then you Also had these very wealthy financiers literally funnel. Funneling money to Germany to help build up the Reich. One of them, by the way, was Prescott Bush, George H.W. bush's father. Okay, yeah, the Bush family is deep in this. The Bush family is deep in it. And we'll come back to that. So.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, look at this. In 1940, a group of Yale University students founded the America First Committee to oppose US Intervention in the European war. They quickly mobilized hundreds of other anti war students to join the organization and persuade one of the nation's most outspoken isolationist, Charles Lindbergh, to support its cause. Lindbergh, Lindsberg, enormous celebrity dating to the 1927 solo non stop flight across the Atlantic Ocean, helped America First Committee become the national organization with as many as 800. But what does it say they were? Nazis. I was still looking for it. Okay, oh, wait, wait, wait. What's this? After Lindbergh accused Jews of being war agitators in a speech at Des Moines, Iowa On September 11, 1941, the America First Committee's reputation changed significantly. Newspapers and magazines across the country denounced Lindbergh and the Committee for Promoting Anti Semitism and Intolerance. Political cartoons, including PM newspaper artist Theodora Geisel.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They literally wore swastikas and had swastika flags next to the American flag. They were literal Nazis. Okay, who did? The people who held the rally at Madison Square Garden on behalf of America first and returned to Camp Secrete.

[Danny Jones]

This is saying that he was just accusing Jews of being war agitators.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Go look into the history of this. This is very clearly established. And then the FBI started investigating them. They shut them down during World War II because they said these people are an arm of the German government. Okay, they were, but here's my point. The civilian government of the United States shut them down from 1941 to 1945. But the financiers, the corporatists and people in the OSS continue to have a vision that was essentially fascist in nature and aligned with the Nazis. And when you look at the last year of the war, a number of very strange things take place that are key to the question of what the American deep state is so in. I have a substack piece about this that I just came out with a week ago. It's called Secret Nazi Nuclear Weapons. Secret Nazi Nuclear Weapons, 1939-1951. We have a document in the National Archives called the Zinser Affidavit. It's an affidavit from a German pilot called Hans Zinser, who reports on having flown in the direction of Rugen island in the Baltic Sea in October of 1944. Okay, he's a German pilot flying up in northern Germany toward the Baltic Sea, where there's the largest island of Germany called Rugen Island. And all of a sudden, there's this blinding flash of light. His radio goes out, crackles and goes out emp, and he sees a mushroom cloud rise. And inside the mushroom, there are these spark, multicolored sparkles, which is something you only witness if you see a nuclear explosion with your naked eye. It's the rest of the fissile material continuing to react inside the mushroom cloud.

[Danny Jones]

What year again?

[Jason Giorgiani]

October 1944. Eight months before the Trinity test.

[Danny Jones]

Whoa.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Now, if it was just the Zinser affidavit, that would be one thing, but we have an account by an Italian journalist called Luigi Romersa, who was sent by Mussolini to Rugen Island. And he said, when I got there, there were a few other Italian dignitaries who had also been sent by Il Duce, and there were some Japanese dignitaries. And they took us into a bunker and they made us put on something that looked like diving suits. And from this bunker, they witnessed an explosion with a huge pressure wave that leveled trees and some structures that they had built for, like, structural stress, stress testing. And they were told to stay in the bunker for a while. They came out and they witnessed the devastation. And then Romersa was flown back, first to Berlin and then back to Italy, Berlin to be debriefed, and then back to Italy to report to Mussolini. And at the same time, there are also Japanese communiques that were intercepted by the Allies where the Japanese are talking about how the Germans have successfully tested some awesome new weapon.

[Danny Jones]

Hmm.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay. Now, there's a guy called Carter Heydrich. Plimpton. Carter Heydrich, who's written a book by the name Critical Mass where he makes a meticulous argument looking at memos that were going back and forth between Oak Ridge National Laboratory and Los Alamos National Laboratory in the months leading up to the Trinity test. And he makes a meticulous case there that there was nowhere near enough uranium for that test. We didn't have enough enriched uranium, and there were serious technical difficulties with the plutonium bomb. So we dropped one uranium bomb on Japan and one plutonium bomb. And so these memos show this huge deficit of uranium until May 1945. What happens in May 1945? The United States captures a German submarine which is full of weapons grade enriched uranium, and it just happens to have this guy Hans Schlick on board who's an expert in plutonium bomb detonation.

[Danny Jones]

Hans Schlick?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. He's an expert in how to deliver a shaped charge simultaneously around a plutonium fissile core. Okay. Which is the problem they were having at Los Alamos. And lo and behold, within a few months, the Trinity test takes place. And we built Fat man and Little Boy. And the uranium bomb we dropped on Hiroshima was never tested. It was never tested. We tested the plutonium design. We never tested the uranium.

[Danny Jones]

Hiroshima was. Was Little Boy.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes. And we never tested that bomb design. We never. Why? Because it was tested. We knew it would work because it was a German design and it was completed with German uranium. And you know what was worse is that the uranium that was on board that submarine came from Auschwitz. The Germans most industrious uranium enrichment facility was at the Auschwitz concentration camp, where they were using the Jewish prisoners to handle radioactive material that they didn't want to be exposed. Nobody knew what the fuck nuclear enrichment was in those days. So we killed those Japanese people in Hiroshima using uranium that was produced through Jewish slave labor at Auschwitz. Who made this deal and why? Okay, why didn't the Germans, if they got nukes in October, Ra Mersa says the date he was taken to rugen island was October 11th, and it took place between October 11th and October 12th, 1944, eight months before Trinity. If the Nazis got the bomb, why didn't they use it against the United States? There's evidence they were planning to use it at one point, because that's where the term Manhattan Project comes from. So people think Manhattan Project comes from the fact that there was a small team of scientists at Columbia University who were associated with the team at Los Alamos working on Trinity. No, Manhattan Project comes from the fact that the Allies found German schematics, maps of the detonation of a superweapon in lower Manhattan. You can look it up, and there's Manhattan island. And in Lower Manhattan, there's the rings of devastation that be caused by this bomb the Germans were developing. By the way, you know, nuclear fission was invented by Nazi Germany. They discovered it, Not Us, in 1938. So we were playing catch up in terms of nuclear weapons with the Germans. And they even flew these Junkers 390 bombers over here. I mean, over here. Well, not here, but to Manhattan. They would come right up to the coast of Manhattan and they would take pictures of Manhattan island just to like, do a dry run of a potential drop of an atomic bomb on Manhattan. And that's where the term Manhattan Project comes from. Is there at one point their intent to use this as a weapon against us? Okay, but it didn't happen. Why didn't it? Right, well, a number of things.

[Danny Jones]

Meanwhile, Alan Dulce was staying in Switzerland the whole time.

[Jason Giorgiani]

My ass. Exactly. Because he's been seen in Prague. So obviously got out of Switzerland. And not only did he get out, he had access in 1944 to the most sensitive military industrial facility of Nazi Germany where they're working on nuclear plasma fusion and electrogravitics. So Dulles cut a deal with some high level Germans. And we know this happened because the way the CIA was formed was through the integration of General Reinhard Galen's Eastern European spy network into the oss. We realized that as soon as we're done with the war in Germany, the Soviet Union is going to be our next rival. And the Soviets had conquered all of Eastern Europe up to Berlin. Right. So for our intelligence, foreign intelligence to be successful, we would have had to develop under those abysmal conditions of the end of World War II, a massive spy net network in Eastern Europe that could give US intelligence about the Soviets. Well, guess what? General Galen already had that. The Germans have been fighting them for years and they had an extensive SS spy network in Eastern Europe. So Dulles makes a deal with Galen to absorb Galen's organization into the OSS to create the Central Intelligence Agency. Okay? And this is all codified in the National Security Act act of 1947, which establishes the structure of the deep state in America. Now what's the first thing the CIA does? Operation Paperclip. So no one ever thinks about the fact that.

[Danny Jones]

And then Roswell happened.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So no one ever thinks. I'm gonna come to that in a minute. No one ever thinks about the fact that the CIA folks who brought thousands of top Nazi talent into the United States, not just rocket scientists, psychologists. MKUltra's foundations were laid by these people too.

[Danny Jones]

Yep.

[Jason Giorgiani]

These thousands of Nazi scientists were brought into the United States by an organization which was co constituted by SS spies, namely the CIA. How the OSS turned into the CIA was its integration with a bunch of Nazi spies. Mazel tov. Great move. Great move. So you've, you know, you've infested our intelligence apparatus with these SS spies and then you bring thousands of brilliant Nazi scientists over here all between 1945 and 1947. And then Roswell happens, as you said. Right. Well, guess what? In 1946 there are newspaper reports of Otto Scorzeni, the chief of special operations, psychological warfare and special operations for Nazi Germany. The guy who went and extracted Mussolini from Allied imprisonment on the island of Panza and brought him back to Salo Republic. You know, when we had beaten the Italians but not the Germans yet, right? So this super commando scores and he was in charge of psychological operations. He turns up in Spain in 1946 and there's newspaper reports of him launching nuclear powered saucer shaped rockets toward the United States from Spain in 1946. That he's out there with General Franco, who remember is the last standing fascist leader in Europe. The only one that continued to be in power after World War II. And as Skorzeny's host, Franco is presiding over Scorzany's operation to launch nuclear powered saucer shaped rockets. They didn't know what to call them. Flying saucers toward the United States. And then Roswell happens within a year of that. Okay, now what's discovered at Roswell, in the wreckage at Roswell according to Colonel Corso? Velcro, Kevlar, night vision maybe fiber optics. Not exactly space age technology. Okay, Lasers. The Germans developed lasers to enrich uranium. That was the original purpose of it. Laser isotope enrichment.

[Danny Jones]

What about the beings that were in the saucers?

[Jason Giorgiani]

This is widely debated. Okay, so you know, if anyone who's read my extensive writings on UFO subject, my book Closer Encounters. By no means am I saying that there are no grays and that you know, like, right, these little, you know, large eyed entities don't exist and that maybe they've been discovered in other crashes, certainly they've been abducting people. But there are accounts that, you know, for example, Annie Jacobson reported on in her book that the entities discovered at Roswell were like children with progeria who had been experimented on and surgically altered by Mengele. Yeah, so? And by the way, how did he get free? And how did all these Nazis that set up shop in South America escape Nuremberg without knowledge of America? Of course they didn't. Of course they were set up there with full knowledge of the CIA. And let me give you the most dangerous and telling example of that. In 1951 these news reports come out that Ronald Richter, a German nuclear physicist, is building fusion power for Juan Peron in Argentina. And there's photographs of Juan Perrone standing there with Ronald Richter. And Peron is bragging that Richter is going to provide Argentines with liter to half liter sized fusion reactors to power their homes. Liter to half liter size nuclear fusion reactors. The fuck is he talking about? To this day the Official story is we've never achieved clean nuclear fusion, let alone at that scale where you could put it, like in your car. Okay, so I'll tell you what he's talking about. An extension of the Bell project. That project that Alan Dulles was there to witness In Prague in 1944, was a device, cylindrical device, that had two counter rotating drums inside of it where electromagnets were being used to subject mercury and thorium to torsion, to extremely high rotational stress in order to catalyze a plasma fusion reaction which generates more power than is put into the device. And what Ronald Richter, okay, so you know, he made these claims, Juan Peron did, probably foolishly, but you know, you can't stop a fascist dictator from mouthing off, right? And so people went to investigate and they said, you know, scientists, International Atomic Energy people, and they were like, this doesn't look like any fusion that we understand. Like, what is it? He's doing something. There's a massive amount of machinery here, and they found the machinery specifically involved electromagnetic rotation of nuclear isotopes. So it's a continuation of the Bell project of Die Glocka.

[Danny Jones]

The Nazi Bell.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes.

[Danny Jones]

So Ronald Richter, time machine or something.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So, but here, so here's the thing, is that nuclear plasma fusion, which doesn't need to be ignited by a fission trigger, that's how our fusion bombs work. Our fusion bombs are a nuclear bomb. And an atom bomb goes off and it then creates a secondary fusion detonation that produces fallout. The fallout comes from the fission trigger in a fusion bomb. If you could create a pure fusion explosion, it would be non radioactive, there would be no fallout, which is an incredibly useful nuclear bomb because if you have forces waiting to occupy an area that's just been nuked, they don't have to worry about the radiation. They can move in right away and secure the site. Right? But here's the other thing about it, is that what they discovered, and this is why the technology was never released to the Argentine people in these liter and half liter containers that Peron was bragging about, is that this plasma fusion warps space time locally. Something happens with clean plasma fusion where the, it's like a vortex opens up and the, the nuclear explosion that takes place, it's like it, it, it's the end of a straw that then sucks in background energy from the zero point field. So if you could find a way to control that, you could use plasma fusion to tap into the zero point field and get basically unlimited energy, what we call zero point energy. So in essence, there is a certain kind of electromagnetic plasma fusion of nuclear isotopes which can be used to open a vortex that. That channels and funnels energy from the zero point field. And there's your free energy that people have been talking about. That's the power source of a flying saucer, of a ufo. Now, here's the point I want to make though, okay? Going back to Epstein and the deep state and so forth, is this. That clearly what happened was a deal was made between at that point, a losing collapsing German Reichstag and American military industrial intelligence people to absorb the elite of Nazi Germany and move their projects either here or to other places that we control effectively large parts of Latin America. And therefore the American Deep State at its deepest substratum is the Fourth Reich Reich. It's an occulted Reich, and the people in it never changed their mentality. So, for example, you have this account from Michael Herrera, the Marine who was in Indonesia, and he witnessed basically an American flying saucer land in the middle of the jungle where a bunch of special forces guys with no proper insignia who spoke American English were taking kidnapped kids and putting them on board this flying saucer, which is probably built by Lockheed or Raytheon or some such corporation. Now, you see, whoever that was, what was that, like a decade ago? Something like that. Recently.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

The mentality of whoever's running that program and manufacturing these craft and fielding them is the same mentality of the American eugenicists who created Nazi Germany to begin with, you know, that eugenics comes from here. Hitler was playing catch up, that all the Germans who created the German eugenics programs were saying, look, these Americans have like eugenics programs in, you know, 20 different states in. In our country. It happened on a state level because of the structure of our constitution. But, you know, the Supreme Court never deemed it illegal. And so we had this very advanced eugenics program by the 1930s. It had begun in the 1890s, and all the aristocrats in America were for it, all the top judges were for it, all the top politicians were for it. You know, the heads of all the universities were for it. They're all ardently pro eugenics people. I document this in my book Closer Encounters in the chapter titled Nordic Breakaway Civilization. And I show how the idea of a Nordic master race comes from the United States of America. And it was copied by Nazi Germany. And the American elites who believed in this ideology created Nazi Germany in the first place. They're the ones who organized it, financed it, structured it. And then in 1945-47, they brought home all the chickens who had roosted for all those years in that field laboratory that we set up together with uranium that we put in the bomb dropped on Hiroshima that was enriched at Auschwitz. Sense. Okay, so one very important thing to understand in terms of Epstein and these accusations about, you know, Jewish intelligence penetration in the United States and so forth, is that the deep state of this country is Nazi. So you're a Jew who grows, grows up in Brooklyn, right. Epstein's from Coney Island. And maybe at some point you meet Meyer Lansky, who's recruiting, exceptionally intelligent and. How can you put it? Shrewd, maybe ruthless. Ruthlessly intelligent young Jewish people. And you wind up getting introduced to somebody like Donald Barr at the Dalton School, who belongs to this deep state CIA power structure. And Donald Barr introduces you to a bunch of other people. Dalton parents get you set up with investment banking firms and so on and so forth. And you start to understand, especially as somebody who's into science fiction and frontier thinking, which Epstein absolutely was. Obviously he read Donald Barr's sci fi book because he modeled certain aspects of his operation on it. But just generally, Epstein was, was interested in the most fundamental scientific questions, like, for example, conquering gravity. One person that I neglected to mention at the outset in terms of a source from my research on Epstein is Eric Weinstein. Eric Weinstein has done a lot to expose Epstein's interest in anti gravity. He was obsessed with it. He brought all the top physicists from all the leading institutions in the world, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, mit, the French equivalents of those academies together at a conference that was titled Conquering Gravity. And we have the roster of the people who spoke at that. And he brought some of these people to his island and he took some of the. These scientists also out in the submarine, the Atlantis submarine, to study gravitational anomalies.

[Danny Jones]

Jeffrey did.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, well, and Glenn Maxwell, she was the submarine pilot down to study gravitational anomalies in what we call basically the Bermuda Triangle. He would take physicists down there to study that because he's like, okay, if gravity doesn't work the same way here, maybe there's something here that's a key to understanding how to conquer gravity. So he was interested in these things. So you have these interests from, you know, early on, and you start to see how the world works and you start to see what you can gain access to and what you can't gain access to. Okay, now another very important element of this story is, you know, Epstein's relationship with Robert Maxwell, which then leads to his relationship with Robert's daughter, Glenn Maxwell.

[Danny Jones]

Let's put a pin right there.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Sure.

[Danny Jones]

This is amazing. I just got a piece so bad my back teeth are floating. We'll be right back, folks. We're getting on to Atlantis. Epstein, Pergamon Press, Satan, all of it. Okay? The American Deep state started by the.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Nazis and Robert Maxwell.

[Danny Jones]

Robert Maxwell, triple agent. Where were we with that?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay, so Robert Maxwell, by the way, is a fake name, okay?

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

It's entirely made up. He was born Jan Ludwig Van Ho, and he was from a town, kind of peasant town, that has crossed borders like multiple times because of the changing borders in that part of the world. At one point it was part of Ukraine, and I think at the time when he was born there, it might have been part of Czechoslovakia, which is going to be relevant because when he comes from a dirt poor family, like, you know, peasants, basically. And. But he was, was exceptionally intelligent and resourceful and apparently very, you know, courageous and, and dashing person. He became a Special Forces intelligence operative during World War II, fighting against the Nazis as a resistance fighter. And so the fact that he was in Czechoslovakia is relevant because remember, again, the Skoda works, Hans Kamler's facility where they were building the bell, was also in Czechoslovakia. And in the first phase of the defeat of Nazi Germany, when military intelligence operatives were clearing out German sites all across the Reich, he participated in that. And at that point he made up a fake name for himself, Ivan Dua. I think it was based on some cigarette brand he liked to smoke. And so he's operating as a military intelligence guy in the area where the bell was being constructed and helping the Allies to like, examine German sites and clear them out and stuff. And he makes it all the way to Britain. He becomes a. Actually, I think he might have gone back in Czechoslovakia and operated in that area later because at one point late in the war, he makes it to Britain through France, and he becomes a basically an MI6 operative. Okay. They recruit him and I guess he learns English very quickly, very fluently. Eventually he became a British politician and adopted the name Maxwell to fit into British high society more effectively. So he gets recruited by MI6 after having worked as a sort of freelance military intelligence guy and then having been a member of the French Resistance for a while, which is interesting because, you know, I believe Ghislaine Maxwell was born in Paris and is originally French by nationality, and then later she winds up getting a degree in French literature. That's what she studies in university. So he was a member of the French resistance against the Nazis and then he winds up being recruited by MI6 and settles down in Britain, where eventually he develops these corporations and becomes a British politician right now, for whatever reason. And I can. I could speculate as to why his experiences, you know, during and immediately after the war, compel him to take over the Springer Scientific Journal publishing company. There's this company, it's still called that to this day, but. But he took over Springer, which published most of the top scientific journals in the world, and he amalgamated it to subsumed it under this company he called Pergamon. And why did he pick this name, Pergamon? Well, you know, everybody talks about the Library of Alexandria, but there were many cities, not many. There were a few major cities in the classical world that were known for their libraries and like, as places of. Of science and erudition and technological innovation and so forth. And one of them was Pergamon.

[Danny Jones]

Throne of Satan.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Well, the Christians demonized it as the Throne of Satan because, you know, like, the way the Christians skinned Hypatia of Alexandria alive. You know, Hypatia was the guardian of the Library at Alexandria and the head of the Academy, and, you know, under Bishop Kirill, the Christians skinned her alive. A Christian mob attacked her, and she was the first person to be skinned alive and then burned as a witch. Okay, what was her name? Hypatia of Alexandria.

[Danny Jones]

Hypatia.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. It's the first witch killing in Christian history. Was.

[Danny Jones]

Whoa.

[Jason Giorgiani]

The woman was the equivalent of like. I mean, we don't even have, like. It's like, I imagine if she were running, like, I don't know, Harvard and, you know, Brookhaven National Laboratory at the same time. She was, as a woman, beheading of the scientific establishment of the world at that time. So they made an example out of her, like, you women have no business.

[Danny Jones]

What year would that have been?

[Jason Giorgiani]

In the early 400s, I believe.

[Danny Jones]

March 415. A fanatical mob of anti pagan Christians led by a church reader named Peter Shells.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They used abalone shells to scrape her skin off while she was still alive. And then they burned her.

[Danny Jones]

They dragged Hypatia from her chariot into the Caesareum, then serving as a church, then serving as a church there, according to Socrates, Scholastia Scholasticus, they stripped her and scraped her skin with sharp shells until she died. Oh, my God. Scroll down.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And this guy was canonized. The guy who ordered this was canonized by the church as a saint, Saint Cyril Saint. And he's worshiped both by the Catholics and the. Even more important to The Orthodox Christians, Jesus Christ, they love this guy. Okay, now I've mentioned this on your show before, I think, but it bears repeating that when Alexandria and Pergamon and Corinth and other centers of learning in the ancient world were lost, we lost about 98 of the knowledge that the west had at that time. Okay. Studies have been done to show this from classical references to texts that no longer exist.

[Danny Jones]

And 99 of the text that was in the library was Greek.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Right. Including Greek translations of texts from other parts of the world, but Greek translations of them anyway. So Pergamum was such a place, like Alexandria. And just the way the Christians skinned this woman alive, they demonized Pergamon as the throne of Satan, retrospectively. So he picks Robert Maxwell, the name Pergamon for a publishing company that's going to consolidate control over all scientific journal publications and set up the peer review process again. Eric Weinstein is great on, on this. He really, you know, so this angle.

[Danny Jones]

Of the Epstein story, Pergamon was. Was sort of named the throne of Satan by the Christians. It was sort of like a. It wasn't necessary.

[Jason Giorgiani]

It wasn't necessarily because knowledge is satanic, because science is satanic. Science is satanic. Science is the forbidden fruit in Eden that was offered to Eve by the serpent and knowledge is satanic. And we have no business investigating the secrets of heaven and so on and so forth.

[Danny Jones]

Right, okay. So there's no other myths that have anything to do with like a real.

[Jason Giorgiani]

That's why it was called that.

[Danny Jones]

That's why it was called that.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So he picks this name and that. Oh, but it is an interesting thing is that there is a Greek. It might have been from the Roman period, but you know, Greek style sculpture, like a huge architectural sculpture called the Throne of Pergamon. The Pergamon. Throne of. Throne of Pergamon. And the Nazis were obsessed with this thing and they brought it to Berlin. I think it's still in the museum in Berlin, really. Throne of Pergamon. Throne of Satan, whatever. And it's this. It's called the Altar of Pergamon.

[Danny Jones]

The Altar, Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I have it in my sub stack piece. I have a picture of it in my sub stack piece on, you know, the Outlaw Ocean piece about Glenn Maxwell. So it also had that connotation. And Robert Maxwell knew that when he named the press this. I mean, this was a famous architectural sculpture in Berlin.

[Danny Jones]

Was he religious at all?

[Jason Giorgiani]

There it is. I think we're going to come around to understanding what religious inclination the man had. All right, okay. So he then puts himself in a position to review all cutting edge scientific research before it's made public. Because people submit these journal articles and they have to be peer reviewed. So Pergamon is getting the heads up on any potential breakthroughs in scientific research and technological development, which also puts you in a position to sequester knowledge. You could take it for yourself and hide it away and never let it get into the public sphere. But definitely you've got a handle on what's going on. Okay. And so Robert Maxwell also was friends with Jacques Cousteau. They were very good personal friends. And Ghislaine grew up knowing Jacques Cousteau. And I think it's pretty clear if you look at her interests in life, the fact that she named dark journalists dug this up, that she named the submarine she was piloting for Epstein, the Atlantis submarine. It's pretty clear that Jeffrey Epstein's connections to the Atlantis mythos are coming from Ghislaine Maxwell. Because she says that I don't know who got this out of this is.

[Danny Jones]

Where her obsession with Atlantis began.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes, because look what happened is Jacques Cousteau admitted to Robert Maxwell that the whole reason he went into oceanography was to find Atlantis. So Jacques Cousteau became incredibly world famous as an oceanographer and an oceanic explorer, but it's because he was obsessed with trying to find Atlantis that, that he got into that in the first place. And there are rumors that Ghislaine eventually cultivated a relationship with Jacques Cousteau's granddaughter, Alexandra Cousteau, and that she was on the island. Glenn seems to have been bi, seems to be bisexual. So it's rumored that, that, you know, from out of her idolization of Jacques Cousteau, she cultivated this relationship with Alexandre Cousteau. Alexandre Cousteau's been asked about it. I think she may have even been subpoenaed over it. And she asked, she said no. She denied having been on the island. But the fact that she was queried about it, you know, by itself suggests something. Anyway, so Ghislaine develops this fascination with Atlantis. Another way we know this is that again, Daniel List put this together when she was fleeing the authorities after Epstein's murder as she finally left New York City, you know, she was a Manhattanite. When she finally left New York City, she gets this property in an isolated area of New Hampshire under a false name. And the name that she uses is Janet Marshall. Janet Marshall was actually called Janet Atlantis Marshall Stevenson. And sometimes she published under the name Janet Stevenson. She used all these names, but Janet Atlantis Marshall was a feminist author who wrote this book called Departure, about a woman on a. An old. You know, an old sailing vessel from, like, the 19th century who develops a rapport with the ship's captain and who also has to put up with these, like. I think they're Polynesian islanders who are on the boat who believe that it's bad luck for a woman to be on a sailing voyage and so on and so forth. So they're very hostile to her being there. And then, of course, you know, she's the one woman in a crew of men, and the captain gets sick. And I think also the. What do you call it? What, a vice captain. You know, the guy under the captain. The first mate. The first mate, yes. Is also incapacitated. And this very shrewd, you know, like, perceptive, compelling woman finds that she has to take control of the ship or they're all going to sink. And somehow she manages to become the captain of the ship and to command people's allegiance and successfully, you know, sail on. Right. So what does it tell you, first of all, about the personal psychology of Glenn Maxwell, that this author is important to her with a story like this. Right. This woman amidst, like, powerful men, who finds a way to captain this ship. Right. And to become a, you know, captain of her own destiny and so forth.

[Danny Jones]

Also, what's the story with that weird blue and white temple on Epstein Island?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes, exactly. So my point is this, is that if she's using the name, basically, Janet Atlantis to get this property in New Hampshire, and she named Epstein Submarine, the Atlantis Submarine. And she grew up, you know, with Jacques Cousteau, having been her father's buddy, and he's searching for Atlantis his whole life. Well, it stands to reason. And the reason that there's an Atlantean temple on Little St. James. It's a temple dedicated to Poseidon. Poseidon was the founding God of Atlantis. So Poseidon established Atlantis in the Greek myths. And this temple on Little St. James was a temple to Poseidon. So it's an Atlantean temple. Also, there's a labyrinth at Zorro Ranch that was his. Jeffrey Epstein's property out west in New Mexico. The Zorro Ranch.

[Danny Jones]

Yep.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Right. There's a labyrinth there in the shape of. Of Atlantis. The ground plan of Atlantis as Plato describes.

[Danny Jones]

Circular maze.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, it's a concentric circular maze that's basically a representation of Plato's description of the ground plan of Atlantis. Now, follow me here. Why is Epstein building these things? Because Ghislaine Maxwell kind of like Made this myth interesting to him. She's the one who was obsessed by it. And he winds up, I think, identifying and connecting with the Atlantean mythos through his relationship with her.

[Danny Jones]

Find a picture of his Zorro Ranch. Atlantis maze.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, or labyrinth.

[Danny Jones]

Labyrinth.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Now, at Zorro Ranch, according to some of the victims, women were taken there and held their. Yeah, in some cases, women were. That's exactly how Plato describes the structure of Atlantis.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

The three concentric rings and the four pathways leading in toward the center of the city. Four waterways leading to the center of the city. So some of these victims say they were taken to Zorro Ranch to be used as breeders for genetically enhanced fetuses. Jeffrey Epstein had key card access to the Evolutionary Dynamics Division of the Biology Department at Harvard University, and he maintained that access to the Evolutionary Dynamics program at Harvard for a decade after his first prosecution. So this guy's already in what was 2007, 2008, something like that, already prosecuted, gets off with a very light plea deal because the authorities are told he belongs to intelligence. It's above your pay grade. Which, by the way, is further evidence he was working with US Intelligence, not just Israel.

[Danny Jones]

Right. If it was Mossad, how would they.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They were not going to swing that over a federal judge and, like, prosecute prosecutor. Right, okay. That's our intelligence. They were told that he worked with. Again, worked with, not worked for.

[Danny Jones]

What about the FBI, though? Though?

[Jason Giorgiani]

The FBI and the CIA have been engaged in a power struggle since the days of J. Edgar Hoover. Their whole books have been written about it.

[Danny Jones]

Yep.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So if the FBI wants somebody, they don't always get them. Because CIA, although it's not supposed to be operating domestically, does plenty of domestic operations, and so does nsa. And so, you know, FBI has severe limitations on what it can manage. They wanted the UFO file, too, and they couldn't get it. There's evidence of that, of Hoover trying to get a hold of the UFO files. So the FBI UFO files are about how the FBI can't get a hold of the UFO files. Okay. Anyway, so, evolutionary dynamics, Harvard. Alan Dershowitz. You know, Trump's lawyer was also very close to Epstein, and he says that the stuff Epstein used to say about genetics freaked him out because it sounded like Nazi eugenics talk. All right, so one Jew saying about the other Jew, like, this shit. He used to talk about genetics. Sounded like the Nazis to me. I don't know what he was up to, but it didn't sound good. And it was very. It was about eugenics creating, like, using Genetic engineering. And by the way, Jeffrey Epstein funded the research that led to crispr, our crispr, state of the art genetic engineering. That research was funded by him too. Okay. So he wanted to basically implant these CRISPR fetuses into these women on Zorro ranch and breed a kind of super race. And interestingly enough, all the women who were being used for that and the majority of the models that were being funneled through his modeling agency and brought onto the island and so forth were of Nordic phenotype. And that fact is particularly interesting if you line it up next to what Glenn Maxwell's AIDS say. I have this referenced in my substack article on Glenn Maxwell. One of her. She would have these live in male aids. And one of them talked extensively and he said that he was from. He's from Sweden. I don't remember exactly. He has very Swedish name. And he said that she would bring young, good looking, smart men from Sweden every three months on tourist visas. She would rotate them only from Sweden. Blonde, good looking, intelligent, aids. And he said, you know, the creepy thing was when I was living there and doing all this stuff for her, I would notice that, like, you know, if my hair was on my pillow or like, you know, there was hair in the. My hair was in the bathroom or something, it would be gone. Next thing I noticed, it would be gone. And I wasn't the one who cleaned it up. Now you've seen Gattaca?

[Danny Jones]

I don't think so.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Okay. This is a sci fi film from the late 1990s. From a single strand of hair, you can clone somebody. And what the Swede was saying was that his hair was being collected from his room by somebody. His DNA was being collected. So it wasn't just the women. She was rotating the Swedish men every three months to be her male aides at her house and do all kinds of stuff for her. Her personal assistant. And by the way, the other interesting thing that he said was she kept the grenade on her desk at all times, like ready to grab it and pull a pin. And it was because she believed that at any moment, like they were gonna come for her. And she'd be damned if she doesn't take him out with her. Okay, wow. So, and you gotta remember this woman was a submarine pilot. She was a trained helicopter pilot. When Epstein was going all around the Bahamas searching for Atlantis, I'll come to that next, she was the one piloting the helicopter herself. Okay, so, you know, this is like a 007 kind of woman. Trained helicopter pilot, trained submarine pilot, expert Diver from the days when her father was buddy with Jacques Cousteau. She learned to be a diver, deep sea diver. And her life's ambition from a young age was to become a marine biologist. Her father forced her to go into business. She wanted to be a marine biologist. So anyway, we're dealing with some such person. And she keeps a grenade on her desk at all times, right. Ready to use it when they come for her. Who's the they? Who's going to come for her? Well, we'll get to that.

[Danny Jones]

The Olympians.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So she's piloting these helicopters around the Bahamas and her and Epstein are island hopping down there. And the most interesting thing that they did is they went to Fidel Castro and asked him for permission to dive on a site off the western end of Cuba where Paulina Zalitsky, a kind of oceanographic archaeologist, marine archaeologist, had discovered an Atlantean city. And look, this is no fucking joke. There are sonar scans of this thing and it was reported for a while in the press to the point where I distinctly remember, and I've got some photos of this in the piece I wrote, I distinctly remember that National Geographic said they were going to look into it, that it's interesting, we'll look into it, we'll send some people there. The story disappeared. And Paulina Zalitsky, okay, so it's in a part of Cuba that's near Mexico, between the western end of Cuba and the Yucatan Peninsula, where we have Mayan pyramids. Right?

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So she. And the structure she found kind of looked Mayan.

[Danny Jones]

How deep?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Here's the thing. The last time that piece of earth was above water was 50,000 years ago. 50, 50,000 years ago. Now I'm going to come back to that time frame. So most people agree who've done Atlantis research. Atlantis was destroyed about 12,000 years ago.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So this is an early Atlantis. This is like way before the destruction, this site. This site went underwater 50,000 years ago.

[Danny Jones]

And how would Steve find images of this underwater structure?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Zelitsky, Paulina Zelitsky. Underwater city off the coast of Cuba. Off the coast of Cuba.

[Danny Jones]

Okay.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. And it's crazy, man. The thing is like, it's miles, it's square miles in size. It's a city. And she noticed it had some quasi Mayan features to the structures. So she decided to trace any possible connection to the Mayan structures in Yucatan. There it is. Now that's an Atlantean city, an actual one. Okay, so would.

[Danny Jones]

These are. What kind of. These are some sort of scans yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Based on like sonar.

[Danny Jones]

How deep does it say this is?

[Jason Giorgiani]

It's.

[Danny Jones]

See if we can find it, Steve.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, yeah. 650m below Sev2 square depth of 650m below sea level.

[Danny Jones]

How many mile. How many feet is that?

[Jason Giorgiani]

600.

[Danny Jones]

How many feet is 606. Three is like, huh. Something like three, 3,000ft. Really?

[Jason Giorgiani]

You can do the calculation on the sign and let us know. Look, look. So she goes to Mexico, to Yuktown, to trace the connection, potential connection to the Mayans. She's arrested in Mexico, severely interrogated, held under horrible conditions and for. For no, no legitimate crime.

[Danny Jones]

2,000Ft.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Good Lord. So Galen Maxwell wanted to dive on this. See, she went to Castro with Epstein and asked permission to dive on this site. Okay. Or maybe take the submarine down.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, you couldn't. You couldn't. I don't know how you would dive 2,000ft. Yeah, but yeah, you'd have to have the submarine down.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So. So anyway, they severely interrogate Paulina Zalitsky in Mexico, Put the fear of God in her and packed her up and sent her back to Canada where she came from. And she refused to ever discuss the subject again. Even people I know have approached her, like family, friends of hers. And she doesn't want to talk about it. So whatever they did to her in Mexico, in the prison they took her to with, you know, under no legitimate legal charge, was so bad that she was scared out of talking about this for the rest of her life.

[Danny Jones]

And I'm sure you think that is.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I'm sure it wasn't. The Mexicans were really interrogating her. I'm sure it was, you know, the folks we have down in Mexico, because, you know, you know, Mengele was in Mexico too. We didn't. We thought he was too hot to bring him into the United States. So we would deal with Mengele in Mexico. We've gone to Mexico and you know, the Nazis. Another funny story. Funny it's not. It's a horrible story. But another story that shows you how the Nazis had our deep state, you know, had the balls of our deep state in their. In their grip is that the paperclip rocket scientists used to go to border towns in Mexico and meet with their counterparts coming from Argentina and from Mexico. And they would hand all the classified rocketry data to the. Their Nazi associates. All the sensitive experiments they were working on, you know, as part of the American rocket program.

[Danny Jones]

And we let them do it. We knew.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Well, they got caught, right? And then they get caught and they get interrogated, I think by the FBI. And they get interrogated. And, and here's their response. They go, you know, oh, so next thing, after they're grilled about this, one of the rockets goes off course. The rockets from the, you know, the. The program that was ongoing in Texas, run by these paperclips scientists. And it hits Mexico, it hits an area in Mexico. And the paperclip scientists are like, you know, if you keep putting us under this kind of pressure and interrogating us and questioning us all the time, rockets are bound to go off course and one of them might cause a war with Mexico. And basically our deep state stood down or whatever. The. Our government stood down. Okay, so that's another vignette that tells you who was really in control here. It's the. The CIA people who brought these freaking Nazis over in the first place and set them up. And they were going down and dealing with Mengele in Mexico. Anyway, let me not go off on a tangent. So Paulina Zelisky has a shit scared out of her and she won't talk about the subject again. But yes, they found an Atlantean city and, and Ghislaine Maxwell wanted to go down there, you know, probably with the sub, the Atlantis submarine, and explore it. Well, what does this all tell you? I mean, they're interested in Atlantis, they're interested in eugenics, they're interested in anti gravity. What does that look like to you? And answer me this question. If Jeffrey Epstein had access to the deepest layer of the American deep state, where we have ongoing electrogravitics programs, where the truth about Atlantis is already known, and where eugenics research is probably already also being conducted in underground facilities. Why would he be running some ghetto operation to replicate it himself, you follow? Like, if you're trying to figure out how a UFO flies, it means you don't have access to the ones being built by Lockheed, right? If you got some ranch out there and you have to like, create a modeling agency to funnel women out there to this ranch, and you happen to have key card access to an evolutionary biology program at Harvard, and you're going to figure out how to enhance some fetuses and like, ghetto style, impregnate these women with them, it means you don't have access to the deep underground military facilities where cutting edge eugenics research is probably taking place.

[Danny Jones]

So I think he was trying himself to achieve parody.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes. Not even parody. Like something. Some kind of foothold. That means he's on the outside. He's not working for the people who run the world. He's on the outside.

[Danny Jones]

I mean, right. Do you think it's possible that he did start working for the people that run the world and then got so much power and got so much wealth that he just got bored and said, you know what? I'm gonna try to build my own breakaway civilization or.

[Jason Giorgiani]

No.

[Danny Jones]

Something that can at least compete?

[Jason Giorgiani]

I don't think so. I think that that idea was probably in his mind very early on, like when he's reading Donald Barr science fiction at the Dalton School and when he's getting involved with Robert Maxwell, who is looking at all of the cutting edge scientific research in various fields that's being filtered through Pergamon and reviewed. I think this was. He was obsessed with these ideas. See this, this, you know, look, people don't like, in general to see high intelligence associated with morally questionable behavior. It's something about the Nazis that really bothers a lot.

[Danny Jones]

Sure.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Is like how brilliant these people were and, you know, what they were doing with their intelligence.

[Danny Jones]

Sure.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Epstein is another case of this where the mass media narrative has, you know, turned him into a cardboard cutout sex trafficker. I mean, that's ridiculous. That is the most superficial layer of the operation that he was running. And what was really motivating him are these, like, occult and scientific quests involving Atlantis and anti gravity and eugenics. And clearly, when you look at his endeavors in those areas, he's making the moves. He is because he's shut out of the Nazi deep state that really does have advanced programs in these areas. We know from the newspaper reports that came out in the mid-1950s, around about 1954, that Martin Aircraft, which later became Lockheed Martin and Convair and Lear and. And various other firms were already building, working on building flying saucers. They were like, we're months away from rolling these off the assembly line. And the whole story went dark. Why did it go dark? Who came to the CEO of Martin Aircraft, who is quoted in these articles saying, like, we're this close and we've cracked it scientifically. We've cracked it, we could build it.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Who came to him and said, oh, no, you don't. I'll tell you who that was. 1954. In 1944-45, we retrieved that technology from Nazi Germany. We already had it. And by we, I mean an amalgamation of the SS and the deepest layers of American military industrial intelligence. It already existed. So they came to the CEO of Martin Aircraft and. But first of all, you're reinventing the wheel. We have this second we'll let you work on it. You can work on it. And this is where Lockheed Martin's contract came from. We'll let you work on it. But this is never going to be made public.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And we're going to use it for these breakaway activities that continue apparently to this day, based on, you know, Michael Herrera's testimony. Right.

[Danny Jones]

This is when these, these scientists in the fifties in the United States were like on the precipice of, of breaking anti gravity. One of the gu, Eric Weinstein always raves about who he says is one of the most brilliant minds in mathematics. He had a father who was working on it. I can't remember the name of them off the top of my head right now. And then there was these conferences that were happening in North Carolina on anti gravity. And then all of a sudden this stuff just goes dark. And then there's also Townsend Brown.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes. And then there's that guy. I really feel terrible. I can't remember his name because he was a whistleblower. And I think something very bad happened to him on account of his testimony. But he was a guy coming, I think from out of Lockheed. I don't know if he was coming from out of Lockheed. He was invited to a top secret Lockheed display of cutting edge technology that the firm had developed over the years. And he saw something, and I think he was at this event in the 1980s if I remember correctly, and he saw some beaten up old flying saucers which he called the flux liners. They're these black things. You could look them up actually, Steve, they're very cool looking flux liners. They're like crude flying saucers, dark gray or black. And he said they looked like they'd been used a ton already. And he was basically told that these were developed in the 60s.

[Danny Jones]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

But okay, yeah, I said that one down there. I've done a better image of them myself, but yeah. Whoa.

[Danny Jones]

Okay, so looks very, it looks very man made.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. Well, these were developed in the 60s by Lockheed Martin and supposedly these have gone as far as Saturn. Okay. They go through the United Americans, go through the solar system with these. Have been going through the solar system with these since the 1960s. So the breakthrough happened circa 1955 in these companies. They were made aware that even older tech Nazi technology was in the possession of the United States. And then they continued to develop it into this in the 1960s. And that's where the state of the tech was in the 60s. Imagine where it's at today. Imagine where it's at today, by the way, I was told by somebody who was working with Lockheed for a while that this person was told very clearly the, the Tic Tac is ours. Tic Tac is made by Lockheed Martin.

[Danny Jones]

I believe that.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. So that was a red teaming exercise with the Nimitz and all that. That was us testing our own capabilities, our own technology.

[Danny Jones]

That, that seems like the most logical.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And also, by the way, it sends a message to Putin and the Chinese like, hey folks, That's so crazy. So, so look, so my point is this, that now I think another angle from which to understand this is to delve a little bit into the mythos of Atlantis, which we have done in, in previous conversations. But I want to come at it from a different angle, which I don't think we've discussed before, because generally I like to stay close to empirical evidence, you know, to the hardest facts possible, like the huge stones of Baalbek and, you know, these, these high precision megalithic structures that we find all around the world that clearly were built by some civilization that's not in our recorded history and that has a level of engineering that almost still exceeds ours. Right. So I like to approach Atlantis from that angle in terms of the hard evidence generally.

[Danny Jones]

Atlantis. So there's no, the only evidence that we have of Atlantis. Right. Is thousands of years of oral history finally captured.

[Jason Giorgiani]

The evidence we have is all these structures. Okay, again, I've said this before.

[Danny Jones]

Above ground structures you're talking about.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All these megalithic, high precision structures were built by a civilization that's tens of thousands of years old. And for example, the erosion on the Sphinx demonstrates Sphinxes dates from, you know, like 12,000 years or so.

[Danny Jones]

But imagine if we were able to actually explore some of those structures underwater, like the one next to Cuba, and determine that those were precise or under Antarctica.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And it will come around to this. I think Antarctica is Atlantis.

[Danny Jones]

Okay, okay.

[Jason Giorgiani]

But we have to come around to that. And Glenn Maxwell found that out. There's evidence that she found that out.

[Danny Jones]

Okay, very late.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Let's go very late. She found it out. So initially, Ghislaine Maxwell interests Jeffrey Epstein in exploring the Caribbean to find Atlantis, the area around the Bermuda Triangle and extending all the way to Cuba, because Edgar Cayce claimed that that's where Atlantis was. So we haven't talked about this before because I don't like to rest arguments on channeled material or psychically acquired information. Okay? But remote viewing is a thing. And we now know that, you know, remote viewers as adept as Joel McMonagle used remote viewing to look all the way back through history. He looked at events in the distant past and also into the future, probable futures. So remote. And then there's a guy called. His name is escaping me, right? Ah, Stefan Schwarz. Stefan Schwarz, who I think was coming out of Naval Intelligence and got involved with the remote viewing program. And Stefan Schwarz wound up specializing in using remote viewing for archaeology. He would explore, like, the remnants of Alexandria off the coast of Egypt, using remote viewing to then determine sites to dive on and find underwater ruins that the remote viewing had shown had been important structures in the past. So this is a thing that's been legitimated since the age of Edgar Cayce. And it's the kind of thing that Cayce would do. And there's a certain degree of error, obviously, involved in this. I mean, Edgar Cayce used his mediumistic abilities to successfully diagnose illnesses of all kinds of people who came to him for consultation. By the way, he never took any money. And also, listen, I'm not trying to promote Edgar Cayce. I mean, he was a Christian in his personal belief system, so I'm not trying to shill for Edgar Cayce, okay? But he happened to be really good at what he did. People would come to him, he would diagnose diseases they didn't know that they had or the cures to diseases that they had. And he was very good at that, developed a reputation as a healer. And then they found out that he could read the past lives of the people who were coming to him. So he could see like, like, say, origins of diseases they had now in issues they had in past lives. And he started offering basically past life readings to clients who would come to him. And in these past life readings, he discovered that we had this super civilization in the distant past, namely what Plato called Atlantis. And Edgar Cayce described this civilization as being based in the Caribbean region. And he successfully predicted that evidence of it would be. So Cayce's doing these readings in the 1930s. He said evidence of this would surface in the 60s off of Bimini. And it did. They found this, like, long Bimini road. Yeah, road. It's probably the top of a wall, actually, where the rest of the wall is under the sediment still.

[Danny Jones]

It's definitely interesting looking, is the top.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Of a wall, Megalithic wall. Anyway, Cayce predicted that, and he said that there's all kinds of Atlantean ruins in that area. Now. He thought Atlantis was based there. But if you look at what Plato writes about Atlantis, one of the main elements of the story is that the Atlanteans tried to conquer the world. And we're going to get into what exactly that means. But point being, it was a global maritime civilization. It wasn't only in one place. It had colonies all over the world. World.

[Danny Jones]

Why do you think all the other Greeks mocked Plato for this kind of. For this kind of.

[Jason Giorgiani]

That's not true. I've heard you say that with various guests. Plato was extremely highly respected in the ancient world. Extremely highly. There are, you know, some cases of, look, the Greeks all criticized each other. It was fortunately, a culture of extreme debate and, you know, you know, jokes and jests, and it was a very free atmosphere of discussion. So, sure, there are people who criticize Plato, but no, he was very highly respected. And his source for this story is Solon. And the worst thing you could do in classical Greek society, at least in Athens, was attack Solon. It was like a Muslim attacking Muhammad. Okay. And we know, in fact, Solon was a family friend of Plato's father.

[Danny Jones]

So what was Solon's position?

[Jason Giorgiani]

He was a lawgiver of Athens. He set up the city.

[Danny Jones]

He set up Athens.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Right, Athens, that we know. Yes, he was the founder. And the story comes from Solon, who sat in a temple in Egypt and was told this by the priests there.

[Danny Jones]

Anyway, but Plato didn't typically write history stuff. He typically wrote philosophical allegorical stories.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Right. There are at least a handful of Platonic dialogues I can think of that involve historical narratives as part of the philosophical arguments. So it's not unique by any means. And for example, I think in the Theaetetus and the Cratilus, there are accounts of the pre flood world that match up with the Atlantis story perfectly, where he's discussing other aspects of it. Like, actually, this is real. I'll get into this because it's relevant. Plato says that before the rise of Atlantis, the whole earth was governed by the Olympian gods who carved up the planet and ruled different parts of it. Each of them, they had their own realms, like a feudal system. Right. Zeus was the head honcho, but the different gods each got to have their own territories. And humanity was basically a slave race that served these Olympians. Remember the myth of Prometheus? Right. Prometheus defies the Olympian gods because actually he's the creator of humanity and he did not want his creation to wind up a slave race. And so he steals the fire of scientific knowledge and technological innovation from Olympus to save them, to empower humanity and give us the wherewithal and the resources to revolt Against Olympus. Right now, Prometheus brother is Atlas. And the term Atlantis means realm of Atlas. The kings of Atlantis were called the Atlas. It was a title. And so this is very clearly establishing the connection to the myth of Prometheus. So is the fact that when Zeus decides to wipe out Atlantis to punish the Atlantean rebellion against Olympus, the Noah type figure who saves as many people as possible and restarts civilization is Deucalion, the son of Prometheus. So the Bible version is completely fucked up, up. I mean, what, God drowns humanity and then appoints Noah to go save the humanity that he wants to wipe off the face of the Earth? It's clearly been altered. The original version of the story is the one that you see like in the Greek texts, where Deucalion is a son of Prometheus and they're against Zeus and they don't want him to bring the flood in the first place. And then once he does, they try to save as much of civilization as possible. And we have historical evidence of that. We have accounts from the Mayans and the ancient Egyptians that say that after the great flood, these wise men came to us. And by the way, they described them as tall, fair skinned people with beards. And you know, I mean, native Mayans don't grow beards like that.

[Danny Jones]

So Deucalion is Noah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, but Noah is a messed up version of it. Deucalion was a figure who would be against Yahweh.

[Danny Jones]

Right, I got it, I got it.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And so, okay, what Plato tells us is that each of these Olympians have their own domain. This is in the Cratilus or Theaetetus, one of the other dialogues, the Atlantis account is in Timaeus and Critias. Mainly Critias. Then in other dialogues like Theaetetus and Cratylus, he fills out the story where the Olympians are governing the world. And one of these domains is the domain of Poseidon. Remember, Epstein builds a temple to Poseidon on Little St. James, and Poseidon's descendants wind up interbreeding with normal humans. Like Poseidon develops a hybrid bloodline where gods have sex with humans and gods or goddesses, and they intermix their genes with normal human genes to create a race of hybrids on this island Poseidia, which becomes Atlantis. And Plato says, what happened was these hybrids, so they're super intelligent, they have half God blood, right? And so they're super intelligent, super strong people. And it occurs to them, like, why are we worshiping these fucking Olympians? Like, they're not moral. In fact, they're sadistic and tyrannical and, you know, they just entertain themselves by cruelly manipulating us. Right. Why do we owe them any obedience and servitude? So these hybrids on Poseidia get it into their heads to rebel against the Olympian system. And this is when Poseidia becomes Atlantis and the kings of Poseidia become the Atlas. The Atlas Kings.

[Danny Jones]

This is also similar to the Sumerian text.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Oh, it's the same freaking story, man. I mean, obviously Enki is the leader of Atlantis. Anyway, the name Atlantis doesn't matter. It's Greek word, describes the realm of the one who holds the celestial sphere on his own shoulders. That's what Atlas is. Atlas, the brother of Prometheus, is a Titan who fought a war against the Olympians. And he holds the star globe on his shoulders. Well, that's a symbol of radical independence and sovereignty. It means you are the one holding the world up. Up, not the gods. Okay, so that tells you what the symbol of Atlantis means. Whether the place was actually called that. Who knows? Probably not. Anyway, Although. Although. And let me mention that this is noteworthy. In the Mayan culture, they call it Atlan or Atlan or Tulan. They use both. And. And we'll come back around to this, but the Germans call it Thule, and eventually the Nazi. So Thule, Tulan. Tool. You see the connection? You know, Tulan is used as a synonym of Atlan in the Mayan civilization. And Tulon and Thule sound similar. Thule is how it's pronounced in German. Tula, Tulan. So The Nazis, by 1938, figured out that Thule is Atlantis. And in their Germanic myths, Thule was a continent at the polar north of the world. So we have no continent at the north pole of the world. But the north and south pole of the Earth is determined by magnetism, and the magnetic poles flip every however many thousands of years. Edgar Cayce says that the Atlantean civilization went back tens and tens of thousands of years. He has psychic readings. He did, where he talks about what was going on in Atlantis 50,000 years ago. In other words, at the time that that city that Paulina Zalitski discovered.

[Danny Jones]

Yep.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Edgar Cayce's got psychic readings of what's going on in Atlantis 50,000 BC. So that means that Atlantis was a thriving civilization at a time when Antarctica was the North Pole of the Earth. That's what's now the south pole was the magnetic north pole of the Earth. So there's your continent at the north.

[Danny Jones]

50,000 years ago, and Antarctica was the.

[Jason Giorgiani]

North Pole was The North Pole. And therefore there was a continent at the North Pole.

[Danny Jones]

This is a fact.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes. The magnetic poles shift. I forget what the number is. You can look it up, up. But it's a interval such that 50,000 years ago would have been before the last reversal, and north would have been south and south would have been north magnetically. So the Nazis are obsessed with Atlantis. Okay. The. The whole Nazi movement ideologically spins out of something called the Thule Society, where these Thule Society people, barons, aristocrats who are into the occult and were being financed by America, are looking for Atlantis, the German version. And by 1938, they figured out it was Antarctica. So they fielded the German Antarctica expedition in 1938 and started to explore Antarctica, I think with ultimately the aim of excavating it and colonizing it. And, you know, when Admiral Byrd, at the end of World War II, 1946, sent a huge expedition down to Antarctica.

[Danny Jones]

Operation High Jump.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, in Operation High Jump, that naval expedition had the shit beaten out of it and had to turn around, turn tail, come back way too early, having lost a lot of assets, and they claimed it on bad weather. Okay. And then on his way back to the United States, I think in Chile, at a port in Chile, Berg gave statements to the Chilean press to the effect that we need to prepare for a third world war in which aircraft would cross from pole to pole at tremendous speeds. Okay.

[Danny Jones]

So quick, quick little side note.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Sure.

[Danny Jones]

Do you know what von Braun was doing in Antarctica in three years before they went to the Moon?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Von Braun, you're sure? Von Braun.

[Danny Jones]

Von Braun. Warner Von Braun.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I wasn't aware of that, but it makes perfect sense to me.

[Danny Jones]

Three years before, and this is. So this is the argument that the moon landing deniers, one of their biggest arguments, one of the biggest arguments to support that we went to the moon is that we have all those moon roc. And the people that are skeptics, they say that they got the. Von Braun went to Antarctica in 66, was to get moon rocks from Antarctica. And then there was a recent study that came, or a recent article that came out where some, some people on expedition in Antarctica got their hands on giant moon rocks in Antarctica about the same size as the ones that you can find pictures of that the alleged Apollo astronauts brought back.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Well, Antarctica would be littered with rocks both from the moon and Mars. That makes sense.

[Danny Jones]

Why? Why is that?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Well, first of all, it's a large landmass. But secondly, the preservation conditions are very good there.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

You know, at the North Pole, we don't Have a landmass. I mean, some of Canada is close to the North Pole, but it's ideal polar preservation conditions of a large landmass which would keep whatever fell there for a long time. Time. So, you know, now obviously, I do think we went to the moon. I mean, if I'm telling you that I believe that. I believe whistleblowers that, you know, Lockheed built a flux liner in the 1960s that got to Saturn. Yeah, I think we went to the moon. Do I think the footage they showed us was from the moon? No, I don't think so. I think that was probably shot by Stanley Kubrick.

[Danny Jones]

Some of the. There's just so much evidence that is. Convinces me that we do.

[Jason Giorgiani]

The Apollo program was a huge psyop and social engineering enterprise. But that doesn't mean Americans. I mean, careful how I say this. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not saying United States. It doesn't mean Americans haven't been to the moon.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Of course, with other technology.

[Danny Jones]

Of course. The Apollo program, though, I mean, one of the weirdest things to me is how those astronauts, their.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Their personalities, they're traumatized.

[Danny Jones]

They flipped.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Danny Jones]

Neil Armstrong went from like an outgoing life of the party guy to a completely introverted. Not talking to anyone, never doing interviews.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They were MK Ultra.

[Danny Jones]

That's.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And their lives fell apart. Yeah, Anyway.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, anyways.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Man, oh man. So, but see, here's the thing. See, it's. All of. It's relevant because these are things that Maxwell and Epstein figured out. Out about how the world actually works.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah. Imagine. Imagine two. Imagine you're Jeffrey Epstein. You have so much goddamn money. You're connected to so many powerful people that run the world. Intelligence agencies, arms traffickers, you know, these giant Wall street brokers. And you also have blackmail on world leaders. You have so much goddamn power and you can do anything your. Your heart desires, anything your imagination can conjure up, it can be yours.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Right?

[Danny Jones]

So if you're that person and you have that. Whatever that does to your brain.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Me.

[Danny Jones]

And you can't even fathom what's going. How your. Your. Your why when you have all that power and all that wealth and you. You can have anything you want. But here you would start to want things that are almost unimaginable.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes. Now look, see, here's where I beg to differ with you. He had so much money and power that he assumed everything should be accessible to him and that he should be able to do anything. And he came up against hard walls and realized over time, fuck this country, and by extension the world, is run by a mafia set up by Nazis, which I don't have access to. And no matter what I do, they won't deal me in. Okay? That's what's going on here. And that's why he wound up dead and why she's still in prison.

[Danny Jones]

So you think he's really dead?

[Jason Giorgiani]

I do. I do think he's dead. So after Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell gets involved with this guy, Scott Borgerson, who by the way, is very tall.

[Danny Jones]

CIA guy.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes, he worked for the CIA and he set up a company, I believe they met at the Council on Foreign Relations, which is not far from Glenn Maxwell's townhouse in Manhattan around Park Avenue. And this guy, Scott Borgerson, very tall again, Swedish ancestry guy, he set up a company called Cargo Metrics, which he himself described as the NSA of the Seas. The NSA of the Seas. And what they would do is track all the shipping vessels in the world simultaneously to see who's shipping what where. Right. Global Naval Intelligence. The NSA of the Seas. And this Borgerson starts talking about how when the ice in Antarctica melts, it's going to reveal Atlantis. He starts making these weird remarks about how there's a whole continent to discover and it will be like the rising of Atlantis when the ice in Antarctica melts. Else I quote him to this effect in the piece.

[Danny Jones]

And when, what year was this guy?

[Jason Giorgiani]

2010S.

[Danny Jones]

2010.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. So Gillette, this becomes her boyfriend and she eventually marries him. Shortly before she's arrested, she marries Scott borgerson, leaves him $20 million or something like that.

[Danny Jones]

Find a photo of this fella, he's.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Very tall and there's a photo of, I think him with his parents and her, four of them in a photograph together. And I think I put it in that, the substack piece also. So look at this. Ghislaine Maxwell spends decades hunting for Atlantis in the Bahamas because that's where Edgar Cayce said it was. And then lo and behold, Cheese gets involved with a guy who runs the NSA of the seas and he's obsessed with Antarctica. Huh, Interesting. Did she finally figure out dark hair dude? Yeah, that's. That's Scott born. Yeah, there he is. And before with it, before the beard, very Nordic looking. He's Swedish. Is he my background? I believe so. Borgerson is a. Yeah, it is.

[Danny Jones]

It is a. Yeah, it is a Swedish name.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So not all of them are blonde, you know. Anyway, so. But his parents are, if I'm not mistaken. You see if you can Find that photo with his parents and Ghislaine Maxwell on one side. Yeah, yeah. So those are his. His parents.

[Danny Jones]

Okay.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Together with her. Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

He's a big dude.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. So.

[Danny Jones]

What's this guy doing now?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Good question. He dumped her. Well, she was.

[Danny Jones]

See if we can.

[Jason Giorgiani]

He got in. He got into an affair with his yoga teacher and left Glenn Maxwell for the yoga teacher after taking 20 million of Glenn Maxwell's money that she gave to him for safekeeping.

[Danny Jones]

Ooh.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

Yikes.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Anyway, so do you really think that it's a coincidence that she gets involved with this guy after, you know, she's not involved with Epstein anymore? Right. And this guy is obsessed with Antarctica, and the Nazis eventually figured out that Atlantis was based in Antarctica. So I suspect that she made the same discovery late in her quest for Atlantis that what was in the Bahamas that Edgar Cayce was describing in the Caribbean were, like, colonies of Atlantis, but the core was in Antarctica. And so she was going to start hunting for it in the same place the Nazis were hunting for it. Okay. Now, at the same time as she gets involved with Borgerson, she creates this organization, Terramar, and essentially. Okay, so let's present what Terramar was billed as, what it was, you know, presented to the public as, versus, like, what I think it actually was.

[Danny Jones]

Okay.

[Jason Giorgiani]

The public face messaging for this organization was that, well, you know, there's a certain vast percentage of the world's oceans that are not. Not under the control of any nation state. I believe it's something like 40% of the surface of the Earth. So, like, the majority of the surface of the Earth is ocean, like, 70%. And of that, 70, you know, and of that, like, 40% of the surface of the Earth is parts of the ocean that are not governed by any nation state. They're international waters. And there are certain treaties that have to do with what goes on in international waters, but they're very weak treaties, and they're not well enforced at all.

[Danny Jones]

This is why we can have. Russia can have nuclear submarines scooting around.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Right off the coast of Florida up to 12 miles.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Until they're in violation of our. You know, and that 12 miles is very relevant because there's also a phenomenon known as seasteading, which is based off the old American term homestead, like a homestead out west in the days of conquering the western frontier. So these guys, around the same time, 2000 and tens started to develop the idea of a seastead. One of them is a friend of mine, a guy called Dario Mutabjia, who Initially interested Peter Thiel in investing in his blue seed seasteading project. He was going to build a seastead off of Silicon Valley.

[Danny Jones]

They want to basically have like their own autonomous zone where they can be tax free or something like that.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Well, certain kinds of research could take place there that would not be under national.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Restrictions. And so it could help the economy of the United States in ways that are not under the legal jurisdiction of the United States, certainly in. In certain technological innovation areas. So one of the seasteads that became particularly infamous is this place, Sealand, which is around. It's off the coast of Britain. And the whole story of the Sealand seastead is detailed in a series of articles that Ian Urbina wrote and published in the New York Times, which subsequently became the basis of a book called Outlaw Ocean. The Outlaw Ocean, which is where I got the title for my piece from Ocean Outlaw, referring to Ghislain Maxwell, because Ghislaine Maxwell became obsessed with this book. Well, at that point, it was still a series of articles. Articles. And she went and interviewed Ian Urbina, you know, of the New York Times, as a representative of TerraMar. She would do these TerraMar podcast sort of interviews. And one of them was with this author of the Outlaw Ocean. And this guy basically described to her how he embedded himself in a pirate ship crew and he basically learned how to piratical activities in international waters work. But a large part of Ian Urbina's book on the Outlaw Ocean concerns this seastead called Sealand, off the coast of Britain. At one point, Google came to Sealand and they wanted to buy space and Sealand to build servers because apparently you can use seawater to cool servers, much more efficient than air conditioning.

[Danny Jones]

So Google and your servers are in international waters?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes.

[Danny Jones]

Who knows what that.

[Jason Giorgiani]

This guy Bates, like the Bates Motel from Psycho. Right. This guy Bates who ran Sealand Bates family, they turned down Google. So who are these people who they get to turn down Google? And it became a huge scandal because they were harboring a German coup plotter. A German who was plotting a coup d' etat in Germany, was being protected at the Sealand seastead. And Germany had to recognize the sovereignty of Sealand just to like get this guy extradited and prosecuted.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, this is it?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, that's.

[Danny Jones]

That's kind of small.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, it's very rinky dink. And they were gonna like put servers in those.

[Danny Jones]

It's like the size of a football field.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Those drums have facilities inside them. So, like, it goes down.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, really?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, yeah, that's that's like a bond, you know? Like, you know, does it go underwater? Yeah, it goes underwater. Yeah. So it's moored to the seabed. That's what they are. They're moored to the seabed.

[Danny Jones]

Whoa.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So. So get this. Because of the coup plot in Germany that was fielded from out of Sealand, they started investigating these people, and they found out that the Sealand seastead was doing tens of millions of dollars of arms trafficking to Africa. They were selling tanks, helicopters, everything you can imagine to Sudan and other countries, and they were doing it using Sealand passports. They had their own passport.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And their own currency.

[Danny Jones]

They had their own crypto.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They have their own currency, and they have their own passport. So now, why is Ghislaine Maxwell so interested in these kinds of stories and interviewing the guy who dug this stuff up? Right. She sets up this organization, TerraMar, and the public messaging is, look, international waters are so badly regulated that coral reefs are in danger, and various species of fish are being overfished and, you know, like, you know, being mistreated. For example, to make shark fin soup, you know, they cut the fins off sharks and then just leave the. The mutilated sharks to die in the water. And look, Glenn Maxwell wanted to be a marine biologist, so I don't doubt the sincerity that she cared about, like, species of aquatic creatures and even coral reef health, which sustains the wildlife, oceanic wildlife. I'm not saying it was insincere, entirely fabricated, but there's no way in hell that that was the primary objective of TerraMar. If you look at the legal lobbyists that TerraMar was conducting. Ghislaine Maxwell spoke at the United nations nine times.

[Danny Jones]

That's crazy.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And when she spoke at the UN, she would sit next to the representative from Palau. Let me give you the backstory there. Palau is an island chain. The total land mass of Palau, if you bunched all the islands together, would be the size of Manhattan. So very small. But because Palau's island chain is so stretched out, the amount of sovereign water that it controls is the size of the state of Texas. So if you wanted to build a bunch of seasteads within the waters of Palau, you've got as much area to work with as Texas. Okay? And so she sits next to the representative from Palau, and she's lobbying for a bunch of legislation involving governance of the international waters. And you have to really analyze it, like, what is, you know, what is the end goal of this kind of legislation? And it appears to Be this, that she wanted to keep as much of the international waters as free of regulation as possible while claiming that it was about protecting wildlife and so forth. And she did this whole thing with Terra Moore where she said, look, you can become a citizen of Terramor, we're going to issue you a passport and you're going to own like a small part of the seabed and the ocean for the sake of protecting it. Right. So they have these terramar passports and all this. And it was used as a fundraising mechanism. But I think what was really going on here is her continuing this piratical mode of thinking that clearly Epstein was also, you know, motivated by and that was also his mo.

[Danny Jones]

Couldn't this have a lot to do with tax, like a tax haven for companies based there?

[Jason Giorgiani]

You have to keep the wider perspective here of what these people were interested in. Of course it would. You know, you kill a lot of birds with one stone. Yeah, right. I mean Jeffrey Epstein's expertise was tax evasion. That's what he would allegedly. He would, yeah, go help like all these billionaires hide their money in a way that's most effective to, you know, avoid taxes. So of course, I mean, you know, among other things, probably there was an angle there involving tax evasion. But, but what's really going on here is that this woman is interested in developing a stateless piratical organization. And again, it's an attempt to replicate what the breakaway has done. They've already done it. So for example, in my book Closer Encounters, I go into at length the facilities the United States built in the continental shelves and inside mountain ranges at the bottom of the ocean. We actually, starting in the 1970s, actually in the late 60s, began building City sized submarine facilities inside mountain ranges underwater. Putatively with the idea that if there's a nuclear war with the Soviets, we can survive down there and continue to fight. Fight. So the black.

[Danny Jones]

How do you know this?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Oh, I mean there are, you know, the, the project papers for that have all been leaked. They're all widely available and when you look at the scale of these engineering projects, it's insane. I, I document this all in my book Closer Encounters. I go on at length of it for, for probably.

[Danny Jones]

These are declassified documents.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, look up the Richard Sar, Richard Sauder underwater and underground bases.

[Danny Jones]

And this guy has heard of this guy? Yeah, this is Katherine Fist, talks about this guy.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, oh yeah, she, she knows, you know, very well about these things. Researched it for a very long time.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, yeah, I've seen, I've heard This?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, there's one called Underwater Bases, and there's another. This one here. Underwater and Underground bases. Yeah. Anyway, it's extensively documented with the actual project papers, and that's insane.

[Danny Jones]

And this is supposed to be a. A one of the places that all that missing money went from. The Pentagon.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. Trillions. So these are the places from out of which, you know, the UFO projects are being fielded.

[Danny Jones]

Wow.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Not just Area 51, but also these underwater facility. Remember, most of the UFOs are seen entering and exiting bodies of water.

[Danny Jones]

You think they're.

[Jason Giorgiani]

They're trans medium vehicles. So not everything that's entering and exiting the water is alien.

[Danny Jones]

So they have like an S4 underwater.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Inside a mountain range at the bottom of the ocean.

[Danny Jones]

And the ships can enter and exit. Like they have like a garage that they can exit that's underwater.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. And they have one under Catalina island, too. So buy that. If Ghislaine Maxwell, or let's say Jeffrey Epstein had access to this kind of a facility.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

Look at this concept art.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And now this is the, you know, version 1.0 from the late 60s, early 70s. Imagine what they have now.

[Danny Jones]

My God.

[Jason Giorgiani]

My point is, you see, if Epstein and Maxwell had access to this kind of stuff, they wouldn't be running the relatively ghetto makeshift operations that they are. To replicate it on a small scale, they were developing their own breakaway. That's what they're trying to do, to gain some kind of a footing vis a vis an essentially Nazi fascist power structure. That's the underbelly of America.

[Danny Jones]

That's a wild take, Giorgiani.

[Jason Giorgiani]

That's what I'm here for.

[Danny Jones]

That's right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I give you the take that nobody else can.

[Danny Jones]

You sure are. Good Lord. Yeah. What do you make of. Of Gizzle of Ghislaine's, her testimony recently when she. They moved her to that prison in Texas and they interviewed her. Some guy went and interviewed her and she basically said, no, Trump's clean as a whistle. Never saw Trump doing anything bad. And then these new emails came out, and there's that email that says he's emailing Ghislaine. And Jeffrey says, Trump is the dog that has embarked. And she responds, I've been thinking about that a lot lately. What do you make of that?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Obviously she wants a pardon. Obviously President Trump is in a position to give her a pardon because they were friends. There are many photos together. And if you remember when Trump was confronted about Epstein back in the day, his immediate response, which, let's just say we know now is not truthful. Is that, oh, he was a scumbag, you know, I wasn't very close to him. Threw him out of my club, whatever. Versus, when they asked him about Glenn Maxwell, he said, I wish her well.

[Danny Jones]

What do you think that means, though? He's the dog that hasn't barked because.

[Jason Giorgiani]

He'S in the Epstein files, obviously. I mean, he was Jeffrey Epstein's best friend. They were best friends.

[Danny Jones]

According to Michael Wolfer.

[Jason Giorgiani]

According to Jeffrey Epstein.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Epstein is recorded in interviews saying that I was his best friend. They did everything together.

[Danny Jones]

Okay.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Everything.

[Danny Jones]

So where do you think the hard drives are with all the security camera footage that the FBI took out of the Manhattan house, the Manhattan penthouse? There was DVDs they collected with, like, names of, like, kinky on there. There.

[Jason Giorgiani]

It's a good question. Not in Israel. No, no, no, I don't think so.

[Danny Jones]

You think Israel got that out before the FBI got there?

[Jason Giorgiani]

I don't think Israel did, no.

[Danny Jones]

No, no.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I think that whoever would have been most threatened by Jeffrey Epstein did. I think that whoever killed Jeffrey Epstein in prison is who got that information out of that place.

[Danny Jones]

That was under the Trump administration. He died.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Indeed it was. So, look, she wants to get out of prison.

[Danny Jones]

You think Trump killed him.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Maxwell wants a pardon. Right. She wants to get out of prison, and Trump is in a position to do that. And in fact, I would be surprised if he doesn't, because, see, the thing is, clearly she knows some things. Now, she can't directly contradict her testimony, which has been made under oath.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Jason Giorgiani]

She's offered sworn testimony. She would perjure herself if she now contradicts that and says, oh, Trump this and Trump that. And I was witness to. Okay, so that's not going to happen. But, you know, information's been leaked through her family. Like the thing about the birthday book.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Was leaked through Maxwell's family.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, really?

[Jason Giorgiani]

So she's this. Well, yeah, so. So I think that he's in a place where probably he's going to have to offer her a pardon and probably will never hear a mean word about him from Maxwell for the rest of her life. Even if she's living in Russia, you know, she's learning Russian in prison.

[Danny Jones]

Is she really?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

I didn't. How did you know that?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Oh, it's been news stories that people in prison are watching her, like, ferociously, like, devour the Russian language.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Right. Well, I mean, it's not entirely crazy either, because, you see, her father worked for the kgb. He was a triple agent Robert Maxwell was recruited by MI6 when he finally made his way across Europe at the end of World War II, wound up in Britain, recruited by MI6. Then in the 1970s, he was recruited by Mossad. He wasn't very big on Israel, even though he was Jewish by ancestry. He wanted to fit into European high society. And he was, he wasn't Jewish religiously. Okay. And he wanted to fit into Jewish, I mean, you know, European high society. So he actually was kind of alienated from Israel and his Jewish heritage. And they worked on him in the 1970s to get him interested in Israel and succeeded in recruiting him to do work, at least with the Mossad.

[Danny Jones]

And you think it was a special ops submarine team that went on his boat and whacked him?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah. I'll tell you exactly how I think, think he was killed. Okay, so, but the KGB thing is important here because after he was actually, I think before he was recruited by Mossad, he was recruited by the kgb. And I think this had to do with Pergamon Press that you see, they were handling scientific and technical papers from both sides of the Cold War. The other great producers of scientific research were the Soviets. They were doing amazing scientific research. So there were a lot of scientific journal publications coming into Pergamon from behind the Iron Curtain. So Maxwell was in a position running Pergamon to be involved with high level Soviets who are doing classified scientific research. And that's the angle through which I think they recruited him, the KGB. And so he's a double agent of MI6 and KGB. Okay. During the Cold War. Why does Mossad want this guy? Because he's a double agent of MI6 and the KGB so he can report to Israel about what's going on on both sides of the Cold War.

[Danny Jones]

War.

[Jason Giorgiani]

His position as a double agent means that the Israelis are getting intelligence and also potential manipulation leverage on both sides in the Cold War. But the Cold war ended when? 1991. When did Robert Maxwell drown? 1991. What happened right before Robert Maxwell drowned? His businesses went bankrupt and it was revealed that he had committed pension fraud where he was stealing the pensions of the employees to do whatever with.

[Danny Jones]

Because the money dried up.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, because the money dried up. So Mossad was funding Maxwell's control, particularly of his media empire of the newspapers and, you know, his media assets. And so as soon, so as soon as the Cold War ended and the Israelis said to themselves, what do we need this guy anymore for? I mean, he was our double agent who was, you know, providing us with Cold War intelligence from both Sides of the Iron Curtain. There's no more Soviet Union anymore. There's no more kgb. What use is he to us? So they cut his funding and the businesses were being lubricated by that funding. Right. So. And then Maxwell, egomaniac that he is, starts threatening the Israelis that if you don't, you know, I run these newspapers and if you don't keep sending me money, I'm going to expose this and I'm going to expose that. And like you're going to be fin. Well, that's when they send the submarine team for you, you know, while you're taking a piss off the side of the boat in the middle of the night. Right. So. Which he was known to do anyway. That's what I think happened with Robert. Now. You know, what's really up about that is that people who have really, you know, delved into, into that angle of the story believe that the person who ordered Jeffrey Epstein's assassination was Ehud Barak, former military intelligence head in Israel.

[Danny Jones]

Visited Jeffrey all the time in the Manhattan.

[Jason Giorgiani]

His closest person in the Israeli power structure to Jeffrey Epstein was Ehud Barak, as the emails show. And by the way, one of the other things those emails show, go through them carefully, is that people have said that Ehud Barak was Jeffrey Epstein's handler. Absolutely not. What the emails show very clearly. Epstein is the dominant one in the relationship. Epstein is the dominant one. And Barak is looking up to Epstein, looking for help from Epstein. Okay. A man who was head of Israeli military intelligence and who went on to become prime minister of Israel in that correspondence says, you know, you got to have half a brain to know how to read, you know, and see the style of people's communication with one another. You can see that Epstein is the dominant one in the relationship. He's definitely not being handled by Barack. He helped him out a lot. So. But here's the fucked up thing, is that Ehud Barak appears to have been the person who ordered Robert Maxwell's assassination. And then Ehud Barak winds up working so closely with Jeffrey Epstein. And Ghislaine Maxwell is a significant woman, the significant woman in Epstein's life. Life, you see. So she's having to. And she herself has said, hu Barak was in the house all the time. She's having to deal with potentially her father's killer on a regular basis.

[Danny Jones]

You think she knows that he killed her, killed him?

[Jason Giorgiani]

I think that if you look at, you know, her demeanor at the funeral for Robert Maxwell, he had a state funeral held in Israel and guess who was present giving Honors to Robert Maxwell, saying he has done things for the state of Israel that no one will ever know. Ehud Barak, okay, so they murdered him, and then they gave him a state funeral saying, thank you very much, Agent Maxwell, like, well done. But, you know, you understand, we had to take you out because you're getting arrogant and, you know, threatening us, and. And you can't do that. So. But when you look at Glenn Maxwell's body language at that funeral, it says to me, she's a trapped woman. Trapped because, remember, her brothers were prosecuted after the scandal over his media companies because they were, on paper, they were the ones who still controlling the Maxwell media empire. Right? So they had to answer for the father's pension fraud after he was killed. Okay? So they lost their money. So this is a girl who grew up, like, in a lavish environment, you know, hobnobbing with British royalty in a mansion with a father who at least was trying to be accepted by British high society. And then basically the family is financially decimated after this scandal. Well, what I argue in the piece that I wrote is that there's evidence suggesting that, and this is mostly, I think, coming from Ari Ben Menashe, who had worked for the Mossad and worked with Epstein and company, that Robert Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein would travel to Israel together in the mid to late 80s. And, you know, what did Epstein do? He would handle people's money. He would hide. We would squirrel away people's money in protected spheres. I think what happened was Robert Maxwell gave Jeffrey Epstein a certain amount of his wealth to protect somewhere. And after he was killed and the family fortune was decimated, the only person who knew this was Ghislaine Maxwell. The brothers didn't know, right, because she was daddy's favorite girl. He named his yacht after her. The yacht that he was killed on is called the Lady Ghislaine. And I think that Maxwell, being the super spy intelligence guy that he was, knew that the person who had the big picture view of all the projects he was involved with should not be the person who, on paper, is legally answerable for his corporate activities. So the brothers are the front men, and the initiate who really was read in on everything was Ghislaine, his daughter. And so she knew where the money was when she lost everything. It was with Jeffrey Epstein in New York. So she moves to New York and starts developing this rapport with the guy who I think, hit a portion of her father's world.

[Danny Jones]

And that's right when Jeffrey Epstein got all that money, like, he went from being Moderately rich to insanely rich, Right? That in that dirt, that time period.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Hidden money from Robert Maxwell.

[Danny Jones]

Insanity, man. Complete insanity. I want to pivot a little bit to off of the Epstein stuff, by the way. I never got to say it. I kind of missed my window. But the funny, the. The great quote from your article about Antarctica. You said in there that 50 degrees. What was it? It was 40 degrees south latitude. There is no law. 50 degrees south latitude. There is no God.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Well, you know, which is a great quote.

[Danny Jones]

I love that.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I would actually like to go somewhere where there's one other place we can go with that.

[Danny Jones]

Okay.

[Jason Giorgiani]

That is the most profound angle of this whole conversation and the most deeply disturbing. And it has to do with the Atlantean mentality. Okay. So, as I said, I like to focus on the hardest empirical evidence that I can, you know, get my hands on in terms of making a case for Atlantis. But the Edgar Cayce stuff is also worth looking at. And certainly Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeff Epstein were looking at it because otherwise they wouldn't have been looking for Atlantis in the Bahamas. And they were also into the occult. Jeffrey Epstein used to threaten journalists who were finding out too much about what he was doing. Yeah, he was gonna put a voodoo hex on them and stuff. So he was into the occult for sure. And her favorite holiday is Halloween and, you know, she's afraid of ghosts and stuff. Stuff.

[Danny Jones]

And we talk about this.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So they. They definitely believe in the paranormal. And they were reading Edgar Cayce. And Edgar Cayce says that. Okay, very long story, very short. You know, read the. The whole of it in my. Well, actually, there's a second substack piece I came out with more. More recently called the Rebels of Atlantis. The Rebels of Atlantis. And I get into this specifically, they have there. But it's connected to the Maxwell piece. Casey says that there was a group in Atlantis called Belial. And this group are the hybrids that started questioning why they were worshiping the gods. If the gods are like, from their perspective, like, cruel and sadistic and so forth. Earth. And now here, these hybrids are like half God themselves. Right? They don't lack much in intelligence and beauty and power compared to the gods. And there's this mystery school system that's set up. Dark journalist also talks about this. I have a diametrically opposed interpretation to him here. There's this mystery school system that's set up where only authorized channels and mediums are allowed to communicate with the gods. And they get directives from the gods and the rest of the population has to obey them. They're effectively what in the Hindu religion they call Brahmins, like a priestly cast of so called initiates into the mysteries. And they're effectively managing a control system where humans are subjugated to these Olympians. But this group of rebels arises who call themselves, according to Casey, call themselves Balak. Well, that's an interesting word. People assume these days that it's the name of a demon. It's been subsequently associated with the name of a particular demon, sometimes even with the devil himself. But actually it's a Hebrew word that has three possible meanings and people debate over which of them it is. I think it's all three of them. And that the semantic ambiguity of this word is being used to signify something. Belial could be beliyaal, it could be beli ol or beli el. And these three meanings are lawless, unbound and godless. So unbound in the sense of being unyoked. You know, the word yoga originally refers to being yoked, to being fastened or chained to something, to being connected to something. And so, you know, we in the west, in the wonderful way that we do, we uproot these cultural practices and use them for purely practical purposes, which I think is fantastic and a great strength of Western civilization, the irreverence with which we go and appropriate all the best things from other cultures and cut their roots if necessary, and amalgamate them in a way that's more constructive and creative. So we did that with yoga, like, so that now it's an exercise practice and maybe a meditative practice. But originally yoga meant to submit your ass to the devas. It meant to yoke yourself. By practicing yoga, you're yoking yourself to the devas, being bound by them. So belial means unyoked or unbound in that sense. Also lawless in the sense of lacking a single criterion of judgment. In other words, without a universal code of morality, without a universally applicable principle or criterion, that's one interpretation of the meaning of the word. In other words, moral relativism. There's no objective morality. Moral codes are relative between cultures. They change in different historical epochs. And then the final meaning when it's if it's beli el means without God, godless. So it's very interesting that Cayce chooses this term to refer to these people, the group of Belial. He calls them the sons of Belial. But it's better to call them the Belial group because it included women. They're the rebels in Atlantis. Godless lawless unbound. And they are the ones who eventually decide to go around the whole planet out from the center of Atlantis and as Plato puts it, go to war with other cultures that are worshipping the Olympians to disrupt the control system on a global scale. At which point Zeus decides to flood the planet and destroy the civilization. Right now, Edgar Cayce and also Rudolf Steiner, who writes about this too. Rudolph Steiner was another, you know, quasi philosophical medium, theosophist who wrote about Atlantis. And he has a different name for this group. He calls them the Ahramanic people in Atlantis, using the ancient Iranian term, term Ahriman, which is like the evil figure in Zoroastrian cosmology. I have a big bone to pick with Steiner over that. I think he doesn't understand Zoroastrianism. And, you know, you can read my piece on, you know, the rebels of Atlantis to see why I think he's misappropriating the term Ahriman to describe these people. Because, you see, Steiner was basically a Gnostic. He was a dualist. He believed that there are two polarities that make up our world. A material polarity which he put the name Ahriman on, and a transcendental luminous polarity which he called Lucifer. And he said that he thought, you know, people were mixing up Ahriman and Lucifer in the popular conception of the devil, and that there are really two opposed polarities. And the mediator between these polarities is Christ. So Steiner broke with Theosophy, he broke with Helena Blavatsky, because he believed in adapting Christianity into a new form. He still considered himself a Christian, albeit a gnostic Christian. So Steiner creates this duality which I think is an artificial duality, a projected duality between the purely materialistic and the purely transcendental. And he says, look, both of these are bad for humans. You shouldn't be purely materialistic and like, pulled down into base. The realm of base desires and, you know, godless cutthroat, you know, behavior and lustful power seeking and so on and so forth. But you also shouldn't get. Get transcendentally lost in all kinds of abstractions either. Like, if you fly too high toward Lucifer, you're also going to get burned. It's not like something for humans to do. Like, that's what angels do. It's not our thing. We need to accept Christ as the grounding earthly mediator of these two forces. So Steiner's interpretation of Atlantis is that the rebels were Ahrimanic. And this lines up with Edgar Cayce. But you know, Edgar Cayce was a Christian, like, schoolboy guy. Like, he was like. Even though he had all these psychic powers, he was inculcated with a traditional evangelical Southern Christian belief system. So he's also projecting his own belief system onto his psychic readings of Atlantis. And he calls these people belial, right? Godless, lawless, unbound in a satanic way. Now, I think this is completely misguided, both on the part of Cayce and on the part of Steiner, that for reasons I expand upon in my entire philosophical corpus, I mean, this goes to the heart of my project as a philosopher. I have deconstructed metaphysical dualism, this idea that there's a distinction between the purely material and the purely spiritual. I think this is a human projection in an artificial construct and that the actual sort of quantum computational world that we're living in is spectral, that both matter and what we consider spirit are abstractions from out of that. From out of that primordial flux of energy and information.

[Danny Jones]

Right?

[Jason Giorgiani]

And see, I think that the Belial group figured this out. That there were. The reason they were godless and lawless and unbound, lawless in the sense that they didn't believe in any universal law and they weren't bound to anything that claimed to be enforcing universal law is because they understood the spectral nature of the world. And for Steiner to say that the rebels in Atlantis are ahrimanic is perverse because his own account of them and Edgar Cayce's parallel account suggests that their great crime was to use occult abilities on their own initiative and for their own purposes. They're described as black magicians who have a science that's like magic and including massive use of telepathy, esp, clairvoyance, telekinesis. So how are you describing a group of people that are master occultists as materialists? That doesn't make any sense. It shows you the problem with Steiner's schema, with his construct. In the first place, it's not materialism. It's a godless understanding and application of the occult. It's to understand and apply occult power for purely human and individualistic purposes without recognizing any hierarchy that you should be serving and hoping to initiate you into a proper, divinely legitimated use of miraculous graces from God. Right. So that's my interpretation of Edgar Cayce's reading of and Steiner's reading of Atlantis and why I think that they filtered it through their own Christian belief system or gnostic perspective to demonize a group of people who actually were rebels against the tyrannical power structure. Right now you can see how this is relevant to the Epstein conversation. And by the way. Oh, sorry, this is. I'm horrible at this. I always forget. Self promotion is not my thing. This book, my latest book, a comprehensive study of death, the afterlife and rebirth. Why am I finally remembering to plug the book now? You read this. By the end of this book you're going to understand how the Belial group thought. Because what I do is essentially go through more than a century of parapsychological research on near death experiences, out of body experiences, reincarnation and possession, and the question of the distinction between reincarnation and possession, and various techniques to successfully navigate the transition between death and reincarnation. And by the end of the book, what you're presented with is a working model of how to control the destiny of your own soul in a way that gets past the control system managed by God and the angels. So effectively, what I argue in this book, and I'm expanding upon an argument that I first made in Closer Encounters, but it's like a book length treatment of that aspect of it, is that the control system that we're inside of is not just physical in the conventional sense, it's a spiritual or psychotronic control system so that the people, you know, not the Nazis, the people behind the UFO phenomenon who aren't Nazis, the, the aliens, so called. Right. The various entities that pilot these craft that Tucker Carlson wants to say are either demons or angels. I mean, this is what all these people from the Trump administration are saying these days, demonic. Your guest here, Anna Paulina Luna, subscribes to the same belief system that either their angels or they're demons. Well, you know, in a manner of speaking, yes. In the sense that in the Bible what are described as angels or messengers from God or demons, meaning fallen angels, are in fact these same entities. But that's because those are retarded primitive people who could only understand these entities in the context of this regressive and simplistic belief system that was being used to control them. Right, okay. What we're actually dealing with with are the managers of a control system. Those are the angels who supposedly work for this head honcho God.

[Danny Jones]

And these are ancient humans. Basically.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes.

[Danny Jones]

That came from Mars.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yes, we went into that. People should watch our earlier show. Yes, go into that.

[Danny Jones]

Right, right, right. We talked about the ancient remote viewing Mars and the ancient civilization that had to escape Mars. There's a nuclear war, we have the Xenon 229, whatever it is.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So the fallen angels are Rebels against that. That system. And when you, you know, Anna Paul Luna likes to bring up the Book of Enoch all the time.

[Danny Jones]

Yes.

[Jason Giorgiani]

When you look at the Book of Enoch, which is an expansion on Genesis, on Genesis 6 particularly, and I do believe it was excised from the Bible. And when you compare the Book of Enoch to Plato's account of Atlantis, it's the same damn thing. Exactly the same thing. It's a story of a group of. Of people who are hybrids between rebel gods or rebel angels and mortals. There are people who broke away from the control system. They were part of the control system. They revolted. They had some kind of coup. They interbred with human women, sired a race of hybrids who are called heroes in Greek. That's what the word hero in Greek means originally herdos. It's also, by the way, the origin of the word Aryan. The word Aryan and its original proto Indo European form is herjos, the same word that we get hero from in Greek. And it has that eros in it, refers to the sex between humans and gods. So the heroes, the oldest heroes, were believed to be hybrids in Greek mythology. And so basically it's the same story, and it's the story of a rebellion against the control system. By the end of Thanosis, I reconstruct for you what that kind of godless approach to understanding the human soul and effectively navigating death and rebirth would look like today in terms of various techniques that have been developed by Robert Monroe, by Soviet scientists going through over a century of parapsychological research to effectively show you how to beat the game, how to hack the system and get around the angelic control after death and be able to guide yourself to a deliberately planned, more optimal condition for rebirth.

[Danny Jones]

What do you think happens when we die?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Usually people go out of their bodies, so they see their corpse, and then they start to get pulled in by this white light that they see somewhere around them. Okay. And they describe this as having, like, a magnetic power. So it's very hard to get away from this thing. Like you try to, you know, after you die, let's say you want to see your funeral. So you go to your funeral, you see your funeral, you see people crying over your grave. Or, or maybe you don't care so much about your funeral because you had very few friends. Hardly anybody's going to show up there. And really, you're worried about your aunt who was the closest person to you in your life. And next thing you know, you're in her apartment watching her ball her eyes out over You. So you go to various places that your consciousness is directed without even thinking subconsciously. Right. Like, and you can see an out of body experience. Astral projection.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

And I think it's for most people largely driven by the subconscious. You don't have a lot of control over, over it. It's driven by your deep fears and concerns. But then this white light keeps showing up and trying to pull you into it. And if you go into the white light, the next thing that you see is basically dead relatives. And here's one of the most fucked up things is that there are cases where let's say someone in their 80s has a near death experience. Experience. Yeah. And they say, oh, I went into the light and Nana was there. And Nana is like the grandmother who died when this person was in her twenties. So in her twenties she grew up with this grandmother. The grandmother died when she was in her 20s, now she's in her 80s having a near death experience. And she says, when I went into the light, there was Nana ready to greet me. Well, that's a manipulation because. Because decades of careful study of reincarnation by Dr. Ian Stevenson at the University of Virginia, Dr. Helen Wambach, all show that the transition between death and rebirth is on average, you know, one to five years. It's hardly ever that anyone is in what the Tibetans call the Bardo state for more than five years.

[Danny Jones]

One to five years. Transition period.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, that's the standard. That's the standard in most cases. Cases.

[Danny Jones]

And so you're so, so when you're in this transition period, you're essentially what people would think of as a ghost.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Exactly, exactly. So the idea that you would meet your dead grandmother who died when you were in your 20s during an out of body experience you're having in your 80s is absurd. So people see these dead relatives and what. These are simulacra. And there are some really creepy cases that I got from out of Carl Turner's research where people would see. And also PMH Atwater did good research on this. People would see like what appeared to be a dead relative, what seemed to talk like Nana. And then all of a sudden like she glitched and it's a monstrous creature.

[Danny Jones]

What?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, there are cases like that where the person realizes something glitches and they realize the deception. And so you see dead relatives. The other thing you see are religious authority figures. So Christians will see Jesus. Jesus, Hindus will see, I don't know, Krishna. Okay. So they produce some lacra of religious authority figures to get you to go along with the plan. And the plan is the next stage, if you get that far. You know, say you're having a near death experience and they haven't resuscitated you yet. And you get as far as this, the next stage is that you're given a life review. These the angels play your life back for you like a holographic record. And you're made to feel guilt and shame and joy and anguish and go through this whole emotional roller coaster about the you've done in your life. And then they use that to try to convince you that morally and for the sake of your spiritual betterment, the best conditions for you to be born under in your next life are X, Y, and which a Hindu might call that karma. But a Christian would say, like to the extent that a Christian can even integrate reincarnation, which some of the old Christians did before it became anathema. Like in the writings of Oregon Church Father, you have references to reincarnation. A Christian might say, well, you know, God is like putting you under conditions in your next life that are going to make you more worthy of salvation eventually at the final judgment. Judgment or some such. And so they can they spin this yarn for you after showing you like a holographic recording of your life. Now, one of the things that's really creepy about one section, I go into overlaps between close encounters and afterlife experiences. And one of the things that's really creepy there is in the case of Betty, Andreas and Luca, who was abducted by Grays from her household. Her family was frozen by these Grays and they took her and one of her daughters and they brought them to some place that seemed to be underground where she met the angels. They said they were the angels and there were these tall blonde people, beautiful tall, Nordic blonde people. And they said, you know, these little ones, the Grays, they're recorders. We use them to record people's lives. They record all the details in a person's life so they can be played back. That's what they claim the Grays do. And they say, well, we work for God and they work for us and they're the aliens. They're like the Nordics. Okay, so it's extremely disturbing. I mean, you know, what it says is that the close encounter phenomenon, when you pay close attention to the details, doesn't just reveal an earthly like nuts and bolts, physical, let's say socio political control system that we're inside of that you might escape through death. After all, this is what makes suicide so compelling to a lot of anguished. People is the idea that, yeah, we can get out of this hellhole finally, yeah, there's a way out. And maybe if there's a beneficent God and there's a beneficent celestial hierarchy, like, if you're not a fundamentalist, God will forgive you because God understood how bad your life was. And, like, you'll finally be free from this hellish realm that we live in. After all, the Gnostics thought that way, right? They believed we were in this fallen world. And you know that there's a transcendental realm beyond this realm and that the Aeons are going to welcome you once you could free yourself from the realm governed by the Archons and so forth. Right? Sorry, it ain't that way. The control system is psychotronic. It encompasses what we call the spiritual. The Belial group figured this out in Atlantis. That the only way. Now, you see, New Agey people, the hippie, dippy, flaky, New Agey types hate this because there's a general tendency among New Age types to want to believe that our spiritual development is in our own hands on an individual level. And that, like, if you just elevate your consciousness, you're gonna eventually be reborn under optimal conditions. And then eventually you won't be reborn at all. You're just, you know, go up into the perfect, idyllic, utopian, transcendental realm. This is a general thrust of New Age think thinking. And then it's all up to you. And you shouldn't project negative intentions because they'll just come back to you and you'll wind up with bad karma. By the way, it's another subject I go into karma and I show in detailed case studies of reincarnation, the karma is total. People, even children, get maimed in violent attacks, and they get reborn with birth defects and deformations. Because what happens is people who were absolutely innocent, didn't do anything, they're mutilated by a violent criminal. The poor person gets born with a birth defect. Because what happens is if you deeply internalize a physical trauma at the moment that you're dying, like somebody cuts your arm off or something, if you so deeply internalize that during that traumatic event, it will reshape the morphic field of your astral body. And that morphic field of your astral body can impact fetal development in your reincarnated body. So, and this re, to understand this, you have to go into the morphic resonance research that Rupert Sheldrake has done. And you have to also look at the extension of it that Ian Stevenson, Dr. Ian Stevenson developed.

[Danny Jones]

That sounds like some eatsak bent off type stuff.

[Jason Giorgiani]

I haven't studied his work.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, he's the one who did the gateway, the gate, CIA's gateway, astral projection stuff. He was a.

[Jason Giorgiani]

The other guy besides Robert Monroe who worked on that. Oh, no. Yeah, Stalking the Wild Consciousness. He's the one who wrote the consciousness paper for the CIA. The consciousness study that's coming back to me now. Yes. Right. No, well, they figured the out of it. You know, MK ULTRA was all about that from the beginning too. MK ULTRA wasn't just like a drugs and like torture technique based mind control program. The main goal of MK ULTRA was understanding consciousness and the subconscious, cracking consciousness. So, point being, I show, among other things in Thanosis, that karma is a load of crap. There's no moral order in death and rebirth. And the entities that try to con you into believing there is are actually just trying to keep you within the control system. There's no like, correlation between how moral a life somebody lived and what conditions they wind up being reborn under. The only thing about karma that I think is legitimate is that if you develop really close bonds with somebody and there's a lot of like, emotional baggage in your entanglement with another person, it can carry across lifetimes and you can wind up meeting that person again and having more drama with that person. But there's nothing really moral about that. That's like quantum entanglement. So there's that. And in that sense, yes, there's karmic baggage.

[Danny Jones]

Weird anecdote that I had on the. A surgeon told me in this podcast one time where he had a patient who had a heart transplant and this woman got a heart transplant from a child and. Or like not, not like a super young child, but like a. Maybe like a teenager. And she came back to the surgeon and she was like, this is years later. And typically once you do this, you. You only have so much contact with the surgeon, you know, afterwards you literally have. Sometimes you never even meet the surgeon until like right before you go into surgery. And this lady kept trying to get a hold of the surgeon and contacting his nurses and stuff like this because she's. This lady has questions for you. She got this heart transplant years ago, whatever, and she really wants to meet you. So he's like, all right, it, I'll take the meeting. Did it. And this woman was explaining to him, she's like, I don't understand. Like, so many things have changed in my life that are really strange, but this One thing I can't, I, it's so strange. I, I, I need an explanation for. It is I have this insatiable craving for McDonald's french fries. And he was like, whoa, that's weird. I don't know. And then it clicked after the meeting that the child who, whose heart she got, who was the organ donor, died in a McDonald's drive through.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yep.

[Danny Jones]

Got hit by smack. Like T boned or something in the drive through.

[Jason Giorgiani]

This is where you have to look at. Rupert Sheldrake's research on morphic resonance memory, including behavioral memory is distributed across other organs besides just the brain. Brain in a holographic manner. So before you decide to be an organ donor at death, like, understand that like, you know you're going to give part of your behavioral memory, at least to whoever's going to inherit that organ.

[Danny Jones]

Wild. So this is all, this is all in the Gnosis, your new book?

[Jason Giorgiani]

Yeah, I mean, so it's a comprehensive study of death, the afterlife and rebirth that basically reconstructs what I think was the perspective of the Belial group in Atlantis. The rebels of Atlantis. You could say the Promethean faction in Atlantis that rose up against the Olympian control system.

[Danny Jones]

The Gnosis, ladies and gentlemen. Check it out. Available now on, on where? Amazon.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Amazon.

[Danny Jones]

Amazon, yeah, yeah, and everywhere else. We'll link everything below. Dude, we covered so much. We just did four hours.

[Jason Giorgiani]

We, we got to the four hour mark.

[Danny Jones]

That was amazing. You are one of my favorite guests on this show. Man, we gotta, we gotta keep it going. I can't wait to get you back. I assume you're gonna have another book out here in the next year or so.

[Jason Giorgiani]

So you know where I want to turn my focus. And I'll leave this as a concluding note.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Where I want to turn my focus is America. I always wanted to write a book about America. And I think that, you know, apropos of everything we've been discussing in this conversation, we are facing an imminent, acute constitutional crisis that could lead to the disintegration and collapse of this country. And it ultimately is going to revolve around whether, where and how we can possibly reintegrate this American breakaway, this super deep state that we've been talking about that Epstein could never get access to. To what extent are they still American? And to what extent do they care whether the United States is defeated by China or Russia or Islam? And are they willing to use the technology and weaponry that they have at their disposal for the defense of this country and the American vision of the future. That's, I think, where my focus is going to go.

[Danny Jones]

That's fascinating. Well, I can't wait, man. And thank you again for your time coming down here and doing this.

[Jason Giorgiani]

Thank you, Danny.

[Danny Jones]

I think this is the third one we've done. Yep, and I'm sure there'll be many more. Again. We'll link everything below. Thank you, Jason Giorgiani. Sleep tight, everybody.