#378 - Nuclear Warfare Officer: Something Disturbing Is Controlling Our Nukes | Robert Salas

Summary

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Danny Jones Podcast #378

"Nuclear Warfare Officer: Something Disturbing Is Controlling Our Nukes"

Guest: Robert Salas | Host: Danny Jones (Daylight Media)
Date: March 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this riveting episode, Danny Jones sits down with Robert Salas, a former nuclear missile launch officer at Malmstrom Air Force Base in the 1960s, to discuss his chilling experiences involving the shutdown of U.S. nuclear missiles during unexplained UFO encounters. The conversation explores Cold War nuclear protocols, contemporary nuclear threats, the recurring intersection of UFO activity and military nuclear sites, government secrecy, and the ongoing struggle for disclosure. Adding credibility and insider perspective, Salas recounts not only his own story but corroborates similar incidents, supported by fellow officers and declassified documents.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Salas’s Background and Role at Malmstrom Air Force Base

• Position: Missile launch officer tasked with monitoring and (if ordered) launching nuclear ICBMs (Minuteman I).
• Structure: Each launch control facility had command over 10 missiles; at the time, Malmstrom hosted ~150 launch-ready ICBMs.
• Security & Readiness: "We had above top secret clearance." (06:29)
• Procedures: Launch would only occur upon receiving a coded message from higher authority; no direct decision-making at his level. (07:47)
• Psychological Evaluation: Officers were regularly evaluated for stability and fitness for duty but no highly specific protocols recalled. (03:35)

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2. Cold War Nuclear Readiness and Modern Threats

• Launch Protocol: Salas and colleagues trained for immediate action—ICBMs could be airborne "within seconds" of receiving launch orders. (07:47)
• Presidential Authority: "It's implied that the president could order a preemptive strike." (09:05)
• 'Launch on Warning': Salas states there were no standing orders for immediate launches based on warning of incoming missiles; decision came from higher up, with NORAD and satellite early warning. (10:37)
• Contemporary Threat Analysis: Salas believes the nuclear threat is greater today than in the 1960s, as more nations possess nukes and regional conflicts could escalate quickly. (12:19)
  • "I think the chances are greater than they were in the 60s." (12:19)
  • Concerns about “rogue” actors, tactical nukes, and accidental launches. (14:25, 15:41)

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3. Implications of Nuclear Deterrence and Proliferation

• Discusses deterrence as a double-edged sword—might incentivize further nuclear armament in unstable regions.
  • "It feels to me like you're giving them an excuse to now create nuclear weapons." (19:35)
• Highlights how the knowledge and technology for nuclear weapons are no longer as exclusive or difficult to acquire as once thought. (18:10)
• Historical accounts of U.S. and allied generals requesting, but being denied, nuclear weapon usage in Korea and Vietnam. (21:04)
  • Adds credibility to reports of modern leaders (like Netanyahu) threatening nuclear responses to influence superpowers.

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4. Documented UFO Incidents at Nuclear Sites

Malmstrom AFB, March 24, 1967—Oscar Flight Incident

• Sequence of Events:
  • Guard reports strange lights executing impossible maneuvers—"They're able to fly very fast, stop in midair, reverse course, make 90 degree turns. There's no engine sound." (30:33)
  • Red pulsing light observed over the front gate; guards report being frightened, weapons drawn. (34:31)
  • All 10 nuclear missiles suddenly go offline (change from green to red), triggered by apparent UFO presence. (37:48)
  • At least two missile sites had incursion lights (potential breach); guards dispatched saw the same red light above missile silos. Radios jammed during UFO proximity.
  • The missiles remained offline for 1–2 days, requiring specialized crews to manually retarget and restore readiness. (46:09)
  • Salas and crew put under immediate NDA threat with penalty of imprisonment; guards refused to talk further. (41:49)
    • "We were both ordered basically to sign these NDAs on penalty of spending a lot of time in Leavenworth prison. Wow. It had that typed right in there. Wow." (43:11)

Memorable Quote:

"Within eight days, we had two incidents involving UFOs shutting down missiles." (54:21)

Corroboration and Other Incidents

• Another shut down at Echo Flight occurred on March 16, 1967, confirmed by Colonel Walter Feagle (audio played at 78:35).
  • "We had two maintenance crews, two security troops on site, and two strike teams all reporting it." (79:20)
• Incidents also documented at Minot AFB (North Dakota, 1966), and Alpha Flight at Malmstrom (early 1966)—overall at least 40 missiles affected in repeated events. (55:49, 56:09)
• Boeing engineers confirmed the guidance system could theoretically be disrupted by an external, precisely targeted electrical signal, but found no plausible way this could have been achieved—triple shielding in cables; no known technology could do this (61:05, 103:27).
  • "This was not a test the Air Force did or could have done." (61:38)
• The Condon Committee's official Air Force-sponsored UFO study omitted all mention of these nuclear shutdown events, despite having been informed by credible corporate witnesses. (64:33)

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5. Nuclear Incidents Overseas & International Patterns

• Research with Robert Hastings ("UFOs and Nukes") identified at least 13 such incidents worldwide, including well-documented encounters at Vandenberg AFB (the 1964 Robert Jacobs case—beam weapon disables dummy warhead in flight), and European bases such as Soesterberg (Netherlands, 1996). (66:48, 67:12)

Notable Description (by Robert Hastings via Salas):

"Suddenly into that frame, an object flew in...It fired a beam of light at the warhead...the dummy warhead fell out of the frame." (68:52)

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6. Government Secrecy, Denial, and Recent Public Discrediting

• The U.S. government and Air Force have tried to explain away these events (EMP test theory, hazing rituals), most recently via a Wall Street Journal article. Salas argues these explanations are implausible based on logistics, technical feasibility, and the total absence of any pre-arrangement or disclosure to site officers or security. (73:55–77:01)
  • "They did EMP testing at test sites. They would never have done EMP testing in an operational facility." (76:27)
  • "No non-nuclear EMPs existed in 1967." (102:25)
• Discussion of government 'whitewashing,' Condon Report cover-up, and migration of sensitive programs to private contractors to avoid legal scrutiny. (97:28)
• Salas remains willing to testify under oath before Congress and has previously briefed the official AARO group (formerly UAP Task Force). (104:17)

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7. Personal Impact and Decisions to Go Public

• Spurred to speak out after finding the 1980s book "Above Top Secret" (Timothy Good) mentioned an incident almost identical to his own, later discovering it referenced a separate but similar event. (48:04)
• Collaborated with investigative journalist Robert Hastings and others to compile testimony and documentation.
• Emotional cost of silence: "That really hurt, having to turn down these guys, I couldn’t even talk to them." (43:11)

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8. UFOs: Theories, Motivations, and the Bigger Picture

• Multiple possibilities considered: advanced U.S./foreign technology or non-human intelligence (NHI).
  • Salas believes, years later, "It's another civilization out there...concerned about us destroying this planet through nuclear war." (81:05–81:10)
• The pattern of UFOs appearing near both nuclear weapons sites and nuclear power plants (Fukushima, Chernobyl) suggests broader interest in planetary health/ecological balance. (92:30–93:13)
  • "They're a threat to like the earth as an organism itself." (93:21)
• Suggests the real power lies not with politicians but with secretive, multinational networks ("UFO cabal"), potentially in private industry, who control the most sensitive information and advanced technology. (99:51)
  • "The world is being controlled by those who have the money, really, and the influence and the knowledge in these secrets." (98:45)
• Hints at credible witnesses who privately claim direct experience with back-engineered UFO craft, but are unwilling to come forward. (84:27–86:13)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On UFO Activity at Missile Sites:

  "Within eight days, we lost 20 nuclear weapons to UFOs." — Robert Salas (55:49)

• On Secrecy and Threat to Witnesses:

  "We were both ordered basically to sign these NDAs on penalty of spending a lot of time in Leavenworth prison. Wow." — Salas (43:11)

• On Government Denials:

  "They did EMP testing at test sites. They would never have done EMP testing in an operational facility." — Salas (76:27)

• On International Secrecy:

  "I’m convinced there is what I call an international UFO cabal...very powerful people controlling the use of these secrets." — Salas (99:51)

• On the Motivation Behind UFOs:

  "It's another civilization out there...concerned about us destroying this planet through nuclear war." — Salas (81:05)

• On Power:

  "The world is being controlled by those who have the money, really, and the influence and the knowledge in these secrets." — Salas (98:45)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:27 – Salas describes his missile launch officer duties
• 06:29 – Clearance levels and base security
• 09:05 – Presidential nuclear launch authority
• 12:19 – Modern nuclear threat perception
• 29:02–44:35 – Detailed account of the 1967 UFO/Malmstrom missile shutdown
• 56:09 – Reports of multiple similar incidents across U.S. missile bases
• 61:05 – Boeing’s technical analysis of the missile shutdowns
• 73:17 – Discussion of Wall Street Journal's attempt to explain away the event
• 78:35 – Colonel Feagle’s corroborating audio (Echo Flight incident)
• 81:05 – Salas’s current personal theory on UFO origins
• 97:28 – Who really controls the secrets—private sector and international cabal
• 104:17 – Willingness to testify in Congress; lack of formal hearings for officers

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Conclusion

Danny and Robert Salas peel back the layers on one of the strangest and most well-corroborated intersections between the UFO phenomenon and Cold War-era military operations. Salas, calm but resolute, connects historical trajectories—from NSC launch protocols, denied nuclear strikes, and cover-ups, to an extraordinary account of technologically advanced unknowns directly interfering with humanity's most destructive weapons. The implications: profound, disturbing, and unresolved.

For further exploration:

• Robert Salas’s YouTube channel (as referenced at the end) contains documentary videos and evidence.
• Highly recommended book: "UFOs and Nukes" by Robert Hastings.

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Transcript

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[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

All right, Bob. Pleasure to meet you, man. Thanks for Coming.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

My pleasure. Good trip.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You. You have a fascinating backstory. So you worked at a nuclear base called malmstrom in the 60s, is that right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

That's right.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And why don't you explain what your job was there at that nuclear base?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Okay, my job, I was trained as a nuclear launch. Well, a missile launch officer. It turned out to be, of course, nuclear weapons. And at Malmstrom at that time we had the Minuteman one. Now it's, I think the Minuteman iii. But Malmstrom is still operating as a, a strategic missile base today. It is today, yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And what specifically was your job description there?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

So basically we were trained to monitor and launch missiles if given the order, of course, and, and prepare for, you know, nuclear war, Basically, yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

What sort of psychological evaluations do you have to go through to have your hands on the nuclear button or have control over these nuclear weapons?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

You know, I don't think I'm the right guy to answer that. I know we, we were evaluated on a regular basis as to, you know, were we in the right, I don't know how to put it. Frame of mind or disposition to have that responsibility. And of course, whether or not we maintained our training on, on what to do under certain circumstances, like, what I'm

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

trying to get is there were, was there like a specific type of person they were looking at to be working at this nuclear site? Like, did you have to report like any sort of drugs or medications or anything like that that might alter, alter your state of mind or your mental well being? Because I mean, I imagine this is like extremely important job.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, it was an important job, but I don't recall any specifics that we. Requirements that we had to do. So of course, we did have an office of special investigations there, and they would monitor us. And of course we would be, we would have to be checked from time to time. By that, I mean the. Checked out on the equipment and any modifications

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

and so the minute. How many missiles were you in control of at that, at that base? How many? There were inter ICBMs, right? Intercontinental ballistic missiles.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

That's correct. Minutemen. Yeah. Minuteman. Well, we had control of 10 at each of the, what we called launch control facilities. And we had about 15 that I recall at the time of Minuteman I. So we had a total of about 150of these Minuteman I missiles at the ready, ready to go at any time.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And was there any type of daily or weekly sort of like routine maintenance you had to do on this stuff or like, how did it work?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I Wouldn't say it was daily. Every now and then they'd. They'd have a mod or some replacement, a part that they needed to do or improvement program. But this was not a daily occurrence.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You have to have, like, super top secret clearance to work at one of these sites, right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

We had above top secret clearance.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Above top secret, yeah. So it's Q level clearance. Is that what it's called?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I'm not gonna go into that too much. What? I'll just tell you. It was above top secret, Right?

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

So. Yeah, yeah. So in the event of like, a. A nuclear exchange, either we launch a rocket first or another country launches a rocket at us or an intercontinental ballistic missile with, you know, warheads on it against us. Like, what is the level of readiness for a guy like you working at malmstrom in the 60s, in the mid-60s? Like, is there a protocol, Is there a procedure that you guys have to rehearse every day or every week or whatever, or. Or like, what's. How does that work? Say that you guys get, like, a red alert or something like this, and there's like, an incoming missile. How important are you guys on the scale of all of the nuclear capabilities we have in the country? Like, from. From the airplanes, the bombers, to the submarines, to the ICBMs who are state. Those are stationary. Right. Those can't be moved. So those are probably the most vulnerable nuclear weapons that we have.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

So we had standard procedures on how to launch the missiles. We didn't have to prepare because we. We trained in that, and we were checked out on how to do that and how quickly to do it on a regular basis. We had these checks, and we didn't make any decisions about launching missiles. All those decisions would have been made higher up. We would have gotten a coded message. Right. And I won't go into this very much, but it was simply a coded message to launch. And we would launch, and we. Those missiles would be in the air within seconds. Right. And we didn't have to. We didn't have to prepare the missiles in any way. These were solid fuel missiles. In other words, we didn't have to load fuel on them or anything like that. They were ready to go. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

The president has a nuclear football. He travels around with. With like, a menu, like a Denny's menu. It's the way it's been described to me. It's like a Denny's menu of codes for strategies to.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I will say the. Even though it's not a specifically written policy, that it's implied that the president could Order a preemptive strike. Preemptive meaning if it's the judgment of his security team that we are about to be attacked by nuclear weapons, he or she could decide to launch missiles ahead of that attack. Right. Preemptively.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And then there's that whole, like, law. Are you familiar with the launch on warning? Is that what it's called? Have you heard of launch on warning? Which is a bit, from what I understand, is the idea that if we get some sort of signals intelligence that there is a missile that has launched. Launched somewhere in the world, say, for example, North Korea, we have to empty our Minutemen silos in case those are being targeted because we can't risk losing them. Meaning that if we have intelligence that there's a nuclear missile that's been launched. Right. And let's say it's only. I don't know how long. I don't know how long it takes maybe 20 minutes for a nuclear missile to get across the world here. So maybe like, two minutes after we get intelligence that a missile is launched. Is it true that you have to launch those nukes from the Minutemen silos because they're stationary and they're super vulnerable?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

No, we had no standing orders like that. Of course, we. We don't have the latest intelligence where we were.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Right, well, you guys are just the guys who are pulling the trigger, right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Exactly.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. There's other people making those decisions.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Exactly. We didn't make any decisions like that, and we wouldn't know if a missile had been launched or not. But we did have Early Warning system. What's it called? Well, a norad, a North American Defense System would detect that, and now it's augmented by satellites, probably would detect launches, and then it'd be up to somebody up the line to make the decision to launch for us to launch.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Makes me wonder how I always. You know, the Cold War is so interesting because, you know, that was a pivotal point in history when warfare sort of changed forever. And it started. It started moving to the shadows. Everything was happening in the shadows, and everything was based on fear and projections and that kind of stuff and counterintelligence and intelligence and. And, you know, the threat of nukes, of nuclear war, seemed to be like the looming thing of the dark cloud over everyone's head. Everyone was concerned about that for good reason. But I wonder now, how much of a threat do you think nuclear war is in today's day and age? And, like, what do you think the chances of a nuke getting launched today would be?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, I think the Chances are greater than they were in the 60s. When I was there at Maelstrom. In the mid to late 60s, the Soviet Union was the major opponent with nuclear weapons. I think China was just beginning to develop their nuclear program. Now China has a significant number, I'd say, in the hundreds of nukes with the ability to launch them. And then we've got total of nine countries in the world who have nukes. Any one of those countries, if they used a nuke in let's say

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

a

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

regional war, for example, Pakistan and India, right. Both have nuclear weapons and they're in contest over, over an area of the Kashmir which they've been fighting over for, for a long time. But you know, who's to say that one of them wouldn't launch nukes against the other? Yeah, if that happened, that would create a crisis situation, I think.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

How do you think the US would respond if Pakistan nuked India?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Hard to say. Hard to say. But just the mere fact that they were being used would, would create a very serious situation. Of course, we have China involved now with alliances with one or more of those countries and. Well, the more nukes you have out there, the greater the possibility that there would be an accidental launch also.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. There's also the threat like of counter insurgencies or like cartels or breakaway militias getting their hands on a nuke.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

That's correct.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And these people aren't wrapped up in diplomatic treaties or they don't have relationships with nation states. They're just sort of rogue splinter militia operations that, you know, could cause chaos without having to pay the repercussions of launching a nuke. Right. Like if you, you could. And, and also one of the crazy things is if you had like one of these small backpack nukes or tactical nukes or whatever, and you put it on a truck in Ukraine and it detonates, there's no way, as far as I'm aware, to detect who that came from. Right. It would be up to people analyze, trying to analyze, oh, did it come from Russia, did it come from Ukraine or whatever. And that could be a pretext for like a full out global thermonuclear war, depending on who's blamed for it. Right. When it's just, you know, maybe a cartel or something.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah. And you mentioned tactical nukes. Russia already has tactical nukes. We have tactical nukes. But President Trump and Putin have already stated that they're going to be developing more and varied types of tactical nukes. Now these nukes are, even though they're called tactical, meaning that they could be used in a regional war. For example, Russia has threatened to use them against Ukraine, for example, in that war, are still pretty powerful. Or in the 15 kiloton range, which is the same power range that was used on Hiroshima in World War II. So one of those could wipe out a hundred thousand people. Right.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

It's pretty scary stuff.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And you know, this whole conflict with Iran and Israel in the United States right now is pretty crazy as well.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes, yes. Let me just say that, you know, Pakistan is a nuclear weapon, nuclear power. And they have, of course, it's pretty much a Muslim nation, as is Iran. Right. And they've voiced support for Iran. So it's not, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they could even provide a nuclear weapon to Iran.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that they can do?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I don't. I think that's a possibility because again, they might interpret this conflict with Iran as, as a religious conflict.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yes. It's hard to know. It doesn't seem like they can keep their story straight with the reason why we did this. There's, I've, I've heard multiple reasons. At least with the Iraq war, the, all the, all the politicians were sticking to a cohesive narrative. It doesn't seem now that any of them can keep their story straight. You know, you have the Vice President and the speaker of the House and they all have different stories.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

You know, it wasn't that long ago, I remember, let's say 15, 20 years ago, you could have gone into the Internet and learned how to build a nuclear weapon in detail. The ability to construct a nuclear weapon, say a dirty bomb especially, is not, let's say, out of the question of a lot of nations being able to do so. It's a fallacy to think that this is a highly technological problem, that it would take years and years to, you know, learn how to build a nuclear bomb. It isn't. And I mean, if you have the right materials. So just bombing Iran and bombing their nuclear capability, I don't think is going to guarantee that Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. In fact, I don't think there are any ways to guarantee that for any nation.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

It feels to me like you're giving them an excuse to now create nuclear weapons.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Exactly. Not only Iran, but other nations.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yes.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

In the area under this idea of nuclear deterrence.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yes. You know, I, I, There's a gentleman who's a good friend of mine who I've, on the had on the show many times, probably about seven times. He's a former CIA officer turned whistleblower, got put in prison by the CIA for blowing the whistle on their torture program. And his name is John Kariaku. He was recently on my friend Julian Dori's podcast, and he was saying he has a close source in the White House who was telling him before the 12 Day War, before we bombed those, we hit those bunker busters on those on Fordo and those other sites, that Benjamin Netanyahu told Donald Trump that if we didn't strike Iran during that 12 day war in June, that Israel was going to use a nuclear weapon. And that's what convinced Trump to do the strike. Which is crazy to me. This is. This is a country the size of New Jersey telling the number one superpower in the world, we are going to use a nuke. By the way, we're not even in the IAEA treaty, and we haven't publicly admitted we have nukes, and we're going to nuke Iran unless you guys strike.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, right. In fact, some of my research that I've. I've done over the years, I should. I found documents, or at least reports of General MacArthur, for example, requesting the use of nukes against the Chinese during the Korean War, requesting, I think it was Eisenhower at the time, if he could use a nuclear weapon to stop the flow of the Chinese army coming over the Yellow river, wherever it was. And then there was another report, many multiple reports of General Westmoreland during the Vietnam War, requesting Richard Nixon to use nukes to stop the North Vietnamese army from, you know, bringing more and more troops down South. Both those requests were denied, but the fact that they were even considered, in fact, there are reports that the Nixon administration had detailed plans for that possibility. Wow. So, again, the fact that Netanyahu said he was going to nuke Iran possibly was probably instigated by their military generals and intelligence people. And anytime you have a weapon, there's this temptation to use it. And. And that's the other risk we're all taking by having these nukes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah, yeah. And there was also those. Those PSYOP meetings that were happening when JFK was president that I think his brother rfk, attended with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, where they were trying to come up with a plan to nuke Russia and China.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And they were saying during these PSYOP meetings. Siop, not psyop, folks. I forget what it stands for. Just look up.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

See what.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

See what the PSYOP meetings were with Kennedy and the Joy Chiefs of Staff. And basically their justification was that if they struck, if they struck when, that was the point in time when we had the most and they had the least amount of nukes there was like they were claiming that we would kill about 150 million people and their retaliatory strikes would only kill about 50 to 60 million Americans. So in their sociopathic psychopath justification, that was a good thing for the United States of America. But thank God that didn't happen.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes. Okay.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. 61. John F. Kennedy received top secret briefing on the SCOP 62 single integrated operational plan for fiscal year 1962. Yeah. The first comprehensive U.S. nuclear war plan presented by Ler.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

So this brings more credence to what might have happened during the Cuban Missile crisis in October of 62. I think Kennedy was ready to call Khrushchev bluff and, you know, use nukes if he had to.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Really?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. We went to DEFCON. We got to DEFCON 2 at one point. Defense Readiness Condition 2, which means. Nuclear war is imminent.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Armed forces ready to deploy in less than six hours. DEFCON 2.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Fast paced, right? I think we were, we were at that.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

DEFCON 1 is cocked pistol.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Maximum readiness readiness. Nuclear war is imminent or has begun.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

What did they tell you? Did they tell you like what, like if you were, worst case scenario, you guys got to pull the trigger on these minute mens. What's next?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Exactly. They didn't talk about that.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Never talked about that.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

The only thing they trained us on was there was a, a little crawl space that was filled with dirt and, and rocks and it was a hole about this big, just big enough. It was in the ceiling of our underground capsule. We were in an underground concrete and steel capsule.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Oh, really? How deep underground are we talking?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

60ft.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

60ft, yeah.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And up there at one of the corners, there was this little hole. And after the shooting stopped, so to speak, of course, I don't know how we'd know that, but. And whether or not we'd know what the radiation level was because, yeah, our, our locations were probably targets, right. But after things settled down, we could crawl through that hole and, and get out. We were supposed to be survivable 60ft underground. Whether this would be true or not, I don't know.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And you know, it's fascinating that during the times when we started testing all these nukes in Nevada and New Mexico and when the Russians started doing it over there, that's the peak in UFO activity and UFO sightings. That's where Roswell, you Know, Roswell was right where he started. The first nuclear, nuclear, what was it? The, the flight group was based out of the 509th.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, yeah, 509th Bomb Wing. Yeah, that was the wing that dropped the weapons on nuclear weapons, on Hiroshima's Nagasaki.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. And there's that great map. I'm sure you've seen it, the animation of all of the nuclear detonation tests in history. It like has the timeline at the bottom and it starts from like the 40s, goes through the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and it shows on the map where all the nuclear weapons are going off. And it also shows all the UFO sightings correlated with that, which is insane.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And in fact, a scientist just correlated, let's call them strange lights in the sky before we had satellites. But through looking at data from telescopic data, she was able to correlate more and more of those sightings with nuclear weapons testing. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Okay, so explain what happened in, what was it, 67 in March?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

When that event happened. Can you walk me through that day and what, what happened, what went down?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I'll walk you through my incident.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Okay.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Which happened on March 24, 1967. Of course, there were two of us in control of what we call the launch control facility, which includes the launch control center, which is that capsule underground, 60ft underground. So because we had someone had to be wide awake 24 hours a day, we took turns taking little rest breaks. We had a little cut down there. So my commander, Colonel Fred Mywald, was taking his rest break. Sometime in the evening, I'm gonna guess around 9, 30, 10 o' clock in the evening, I get a call from my topside guard. We had about six guards up there on ground level, and they're used for security purposes at the.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Pull that mic a little bit closer.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, security purposes at what we call the launch facility. So the launch facility is about a mile or two away in a kind of a circle around the launch control center.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Got it. So the actual, the actual nukes are about a mile away.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Exactly.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Okay.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And so we had 10. And they were always, pretty much always on alert status, meaning they were green, ready to launch. And like I said, we could launch them in seconds. It didn't take long. Anyway, the guard main guard calls down, says, sir, we've been seeing some strange lights in the sky overhead, flying directly overhead, making really weird maneuvers. They're not airplanes, sir. And I said, what do you mean? Well, they're able to fly very fast, stop in midair, reverse course, make 90 degree turns. There's no Engine sound. Airplanes don't do that, sir. These are not airplanes. Oh, what are they? UFOs. I even use that word because we had had reports of lights in the sky from local residents in Great Falls, Montana. We had reports in the newspaper, the Great Falls tribute. And that's where we all lived. In Great Falls. Great Falls or in malmstrom are about 100 miles to the west of us where we were. We were near a little town called Roy, Montana, just due east of Great Falls. Anyway, I didn't quite know what to make of his report. I said, well, thank you. But he kept saying, these aren't airplanes. They couldn't be airplanes.

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[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

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[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

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[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

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[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

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[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And how many of them? He didn't say how many. He said there were multiple sightings of these things.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You can pull this up like this. Pull a little closer too. You don't have to scoot in. You can actually move it to you okay.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

You all right? Yeah. Okay. So I thanked him for the report. It was not. I didn't consider it a joke or, you know, trying to prank or something. A prank or something like that. But basically I said thank you. Let me know if anything more interesting happens, and hung up the phone.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

What time Was this. Do you remember?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

9, 9, 30, possibly 10, something like that. It was dark outside, though. I remember that. We didn't have. We don't have any windows, and we don't have any video up there either at that time. Right. Okay. So I hang up the phone, I go back to my book, and he calls back about five minutes later and says. And this time he's screaming into the phone, he's yelling, he's babbling, he's frightened. And finally, calm him down, calm down. Tell me what you're calling about. He says, sir, there's a glowing red light. Basically. He didn't say object. He said a light. Pulsating, reddish light. I've got all the guys out here. They got their weapons up, pointed at this thing and their weapons. Yeah, yeah. And did anyone shoot it? Well, that's a possibility. I'm not certain and I'll tell you why in a minute. But he said it was hovering right above the front gate. It was just sitting there above the front gate. And that front gate is about, I'd say, 12ft high. What do I do, sir? What do I do? And he was panicking. He was very panicky. Of course, this was shocking to me, but I had to take it very seriously. Of course, I didn't know what to do. Never had an experience like this. I said, you're in charge of security up there. Make sure nothing enters the fenced area. Do whatever you have to do. You're in charge of security of the whole facility. So he said, okay, sir, I gotta go. One of the guards just got injured. He hangs up the phone. I. I look over at. Just out of, you know, reaction, I looked over at the board. We have a status board of lights, and we had all green lights at that point. So I turn around and go to the cut where Colonel Mywald, my commander, was taking a rest break. Wake him up, start to tell him about these phone calls, and then all of a sudden, we get a large horn go off. And we know what that means. It means that there's an issue with one of the missiles. Look at the board, and sure enough, one of them went from green to red. No go, no long, no. No ability to.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

The missiles that are a mile away from you right now, right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah. We have indicator lights.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Even though this shows the status, this thing is here where you guys are, it's not over by the missile silos, right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Okay. Well, not then.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Okay.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And then very quickly thereafter, bing, bing, bing, bing. All 10 of them went down. They all went red. We jump up, of course, and go through our checklist. We have a checklist to do when that happens. And I noticed there were, at 2 of the launch facilities, there were incursion lights, which means that possibility somebody or something entered into the fenced area where the missiles are. And so I called back upstairs because I've got to send guards out there, take a look, to drive out there and find out what's going on. And of course, I asked about this red light he reported. He said it just flew off. So just as he picked up the phone. So it was there when these missiles went down. Went down. The guards I'd sent to two sets of guards out to those sites, they got within a mile away and again saw this light or these lights just above those missile sites. And they were scared to death. Still scared, very frightened.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

The doors were closed above the missiles, right? There's doors on top of them.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

There is. There is a kind of a hatch that goes over the top of the silo of the missile. You can see it there on the left.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Got it.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

It's on rails normally, but if it got stuck, we'd. We'd blow it off in order to launch the missile. But, yeah, that. So there were UFOs seen by those guards over two of those missile sites and they didn't want to go any further. They were so frightened of these things, their experience seeing one up close.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

How many guards are there at the actual missile sites?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, we had about six to eight security people upstairs and we'd send them out two at a time.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And they also said, they said that these lights were just hovering right above the missiles.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Exactly. So we excused them from going any further. Normally they would go to the site, open the gate, look around. But in this case, we had them come back to the launch control facility, and on the way back, they lost radio contact, which is another indication of UFO activity. They were. UFOs seem to be able to interfere with radio contact. Anyway, the guard that got injured, I later got a report from somebody that was aware of this incident and lived in the barracks with these security guards. And he said he had remembered hearing two possible scenarios. One is he injured his hand because his rifle jammed and tried to clear it and injured his hand somehow. And another scenario was, well, he fired at the object and tried to clear his weapon. And then another scenario is he did grab the barbed wire fencing that we had around the facility and cut his hand. At any rate, he had to be sent back to the base for treatment. But it was. It was a minor thing and it was nothing that the UFO did to him. Sure, it was something, and.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

But you don't.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

You, you, you.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You're not sure if anyone actually fired on it.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I'll tell you why. The next morning we were relieved by another crew. The first thing I did is go upstairs and talk to these guys or try to talk to the main guard. Anyway, he wouldn't talk to me. And he was only an airman. I was a captain or, you know, well, not quite then. I was a lieutenant, but I was his commanding officer and he wouldn't talk to me. I said, what, What'd you say to him? I said, God damn it, you tell me what the hell you saw again, I want to hear it. And he stammered. And finally my commander told me, you know, he's probably been told not to talk to me. At any rate. We were helicoptered back to the base right away and then ordered to our squadron commander's office. And as I walked in, first thing I said to him was, what the hell was that? What's going on here? And he was white as a sheet. He said, I don't know. I have no idea. And then there was a guy with him from afosi, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, shoved a piece of paper at us, said, sign here. I said, what's this? It's a non disclosure statement. You're never to talk to anybody about this, ever. No one in the air force, no one. None of your family members, nobody. I said, we've already got above top secret clearance. All you have to do is tell me not to talk, right? No, no, no. You have to sign this. And so we were both ordered basically to sign these NDAs on penalty of spending a lot of time in Leavenworth prison. Wow. It had that typed right in there. Wow. If we ever spoke about it. So we signed, and after that we were unable to talk to those guards. And they called me the next morning. I don't know how they got my home number. I was living in Great Falls with my wife, and they begged me to come out and talk to him. And I couldn't. Who? The guards. The guards, yeah. They wanted to talk to me about it, you know, thinking I knew I would know what the heck's going on here. Right, right. Of course I didn't, and I had to turn them down, but that really hurt, having to turn down these guys I couldn't even talk to.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

When the missiles went down and you got all the red lights, they all been offline. What was going through your mind had that ever happened? To you before?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Never. I mean, I. Every now and then a missile would go, no go, or go down for some technical reason. But those were single instances. Never multiple missiles going down.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Never more than one.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Never more than one for any reason. I was there for three years and that never happened. These were very reliable systems. And by the way, we didn't lose power at any time. This was not a power failure of any kind. We always had power because we had redundant power. We had Montana power. We had diesel backup, diesel generators backup. And the battery backups also. Wow. On the missiles. So they were triple power support.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

How long were they down for?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, again, we were relieved by another crew. I can't tell you exactly, but in

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

general, you're not allowed to say how long they were down for.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I would say a day, possibly two. Because we had to send crews out there physically.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

A day or two.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes. Whoa. Because we had to send crews to each of the launch facilities to go through a targeting procedure. And that was a little bit involved, but, you know, not. It took a little time for each missile, let's put it that way. But there was no damage, no damage to equipment.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Once you got. How are you able to get everything back online?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Like I said, they went through a procedure. And again, true checklist procedure, but they have to go through retargeting the missile to make sure it's targeted properly.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Got it.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

But again, there were never reports afterwards. And of course, we'd go out there about every three or four days, usually to the same flight, Oscar flight, my case. And there were never reports of any equipment failures as a result of this incident.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

That's wild. And I'm sure you were thinking about it non stop after that.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

For a while, yes. And then after a while I got thinking about 30 years in Leavenworth Prison and focused more on keeping my mouth shut.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Right. What finally convinced you to talk about this publicly?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Okay, so I. I resigned my commission in 1971 from the Air Force. I went to work for aerospace companies first and then for FAA for over 20 years.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Oh, wow.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And then I decided to become a teacher, a high school teacher in math. And so I went to the University of Washington, happened to be in Seattle at the time, went to the University of Washington and signed up. And after that I walked through the bookstore at the University of Washington bookstore. And as I was walking through, on one of the shelves, I saw a book called Above Top Secret by Timothy Good. And that looked interesting to me. I picked the book up, happened to open it to page 301 of that book. And on that page was written a short paragraph about missiles being disabled by UFOs in 1967. And bingo, I remember that. That was my incident. Yeah. And I said, what's it doing in this book? It's, you know, for sale for the public to read. This is supposed to be highly classified. That's what I was told. This is highly classified. And. But it sounded exactly like what happened to me, at least the gist of it. And what I remember of it. Remember, this is 27 years later, and

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

this book was citing the exact incident at Malmstrom or a different one.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, I thought it was my incident. It turned out later, and I didn't find this out for two years later. It turned out that this was a different incident that I had never heard about.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Same year.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Wow. Same at Malmstrom, though.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes. Yes. So I go home and right away I spill the beans to my wife and I say this. Look. Look at this. This. This is my incident. This happened to me while I was in the Air Force. Etc. And because I was so confident that if it's in this book, it's been declassified. Right? Must have been. Yeah. No, but I thought it was. And so I got a hold of a guy at mufon, Mutual UFO Network, and an investigator, and we agreed to write to the Air Force under the Freedom of Information act requesting documents about this incident in 1967. But we didn't say a word about UFOs. We just said, you know, missiles being shut down for unusual reasons. The Air Force wrote back and said, you know, this is classified. However, since it's been so long, we're going to declassify it and we'll send you documents. Wow. And they did. And so I got receiving documents on the Echo flight shutdown. Echo flight. Echo. E for Echo. All right. And I still thought it was my incident, even though Echo was not in my squadron. But I didn't remember that, really remember. I. This is 27 years later. And I. Yeah. And consciously or subconsciously try to forget what I knew about it because I didn't want to talk about it. Some bar after having a few beers. Right, Right. So I started going public. I gave an interview to the Great Falls Tribune. I gave an interview to Art Bell, art bell show, etc. But I still didn't even remember the name of the guy that was in the capsule with me when it happened. It wasn't until 1996 I finally contacted Colonel Mywald, who had retired a colonel, and he was the guy that was with me. I gave him a call and said, and I've got a recording of that, by the way.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Oh, really?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, I've got a recording of that. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Did you bring it with you?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Would you play it? Yeah, you can go. You can continue explaining.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Okay. So I go through what I think happened or I remember happening, and he listens. And then at the end he says, yeah, that's. That's about what I remember. But we weren't at Echo flight, right? We were at Oscar flight. I said, what you mean there were two of these incidents? Because I had the documentation saying echo was on March 16, 1967. That's when that happened. And at that point, I didn't know the date of the Oscar flight, my incident, but he said, no, we were assigned to Oscar and we never went to Echo. So later on, through another witness, man by the name of Robert Jamison, who actually brought the Oscar flight back up on alert, he. He and his crew went out there and did these targeting startups, confirmed the date of March 24, 1967, for my incident. So that was eight days after the Echo incident. Within eight days, we had two incidents involving UFOs shutting down missiles.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And you were just off that day or what, on the 24th?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

No, I wasn't off.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Well, why wouldn't have you? How. How did you not know about it at the time?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

The date, you mean?

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah, if it was only eight days

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

later, because it was 24 years or 27 years after the fact. I don't remember the date of my incident.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah, but I know, but there was two incidents.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, so the 18th. I mean, the 16th was the echo incident. We later found out through another incident that was written up in the Great Falls Tribune called the Belt incident, where a truck driver sees a UFO pacing his truck. The UFO lands in a ravine, he goes out, takes a look, he calls the highway patrol, he calls the Air Force. They all take a look. See the object down there? And that happened on the 24th.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Ah, I see.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And when Jameson was called in to do his job and go bring the Oscar missiles back up on alert, he remembers that incident happened on that day, same day as the Oscar incident. So that's why how we were able to nail down the 24th.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Wow.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Eight days later. So within eight days, we lost 20 nuclear weapons to UFOs. Not only that, In 1966, around September of 66, at Minot Air Force Base.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Where's that one? Where's that base at what state?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

North Dakota. North Dakota. Okay. Yeah. This is the what's called the belt sighting. That's the truck driver I just told you about. He gave an interview to the Great Falls Tribune. And so that was well documented. But in 1966, there was another incident at Minot Air Force Base. David Shindelli, because I came forward, he came forward and talked about that incident, and he relieved a crew who lost all 10 of their missiles during UFO sighting. Wow. And one more in early 1966, again at Malmstrom, let's say January of 66. I'm not sure the date, but we've got another witness I'll tell you about in a minute who talks about another 10 missiles going down during UFO sighting, again at Malmstrom, at Alpha Flight. Okay, so within the span of two years, two years, UFOs have come over and shut down 10 missiles. Four times, 40 missiles. And that's. I, I can justify that. I can, I can give you evidence to that.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Now also, wasn't there some sort of investigation that went down right after that where Boeing came in?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

You said, okay, so one of the documents we got. Said was from SAC headquarters, it was a telegram and it said, we've got to find out what caused these missiles to go down, because we don't know. And this is of grave concern. Right. This is the very basis of our national security, these nuclear weapons. So he asked by name that Boeing get involved. Boeing had the overall contract on the Minuteman system. There was a top level contractor and they assigned people to look into this. And two of these engineers, or one of these engineers rather, decided to do a bench test on the guidance system, because that was the readout we were getting. We had a way of getting, you know, verbal readout or why the missile was shut down. And the readout was guidance and control system failure. So they, they looked at all the pieces of hardware on the guidance system. We had an inertial guidance system. We didn't have gps. We didn't have satellites at the time for navigation or guidance after the missiles were launched. Right. So they depended on an inertial system which required gyroscopes, velocity meters, accelerometers, things like that, that after the missile is launched, would use this data to determine whether or not it was on course to hit the target. Yes. And the processor for that was something called the logic coupler. Okay. So they pulled, Boeing did a bench test on the logic coupler and shot it with various levels of electrical signals and were able to come up with a particular signal for a particular duration, would momentarily switch off the logic Coupler. And that would, could have shut down the missiles again because it would shut down the guidance system. So that was speculative by Boeing. The, they didn't know for sure, but they did make a statement that this is a possibility. And this is in one of the reports I received. However, they had no idea how this signal could have been injected into each of the missiles separately.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Simultaneously.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Simultaneously. Basically because the cabling system that we had was triply shielded against electromagnetic interference from the outside. But that's what Boeing concluded, that an external signal was sent to each of these missiles separately.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Wow.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And again, this happened 40 times.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yep.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

So they, they, this was not, this was not a, some kind of a test that the Air Force did or could have done.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. So that was another speculation that this could have been some sort of an EMP test. Is that right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

No, no. Well, there was, you know, I think, I think the origin of that story came from, you know, there was a Condon investigation going on at the time. Right. And it's good we talked about this. Edward Condon, you know about the Condon investigation? No. Okay. 1966, the University of Colorado was awarded a contract by the Air Force to look into the UFO question. The Air Force had been getting a lot of static from the public, including Gerald Ford, Michigan where they had many incidents of UFO sightings. And the Air Force promised to do a so called scientific study of the UFO question. It was. So anyway, it was what the Air Force really wanted was to get out of the, of having to answer to Congress or the public about these things because more and more people were reporting UFOs and they really wanted to whitewash the whole subject and just basically say this. There's a lot of nothing. Sure, nothing to look at. So they made a deal with Condon and I've got this documented my book, that if he took on the UFO study. Edward Condon was a professor of physics at the University of Colorado at the time, but he had been, he'd been part of the Manhattan Project at one point.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Oh really?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah. And he got fired for security reasons and he was. Accused of being a Russian spy by J. Edgar Hoover. He lost his security clearance. So the Air Force went back to Condon, who was now teaching physics at University of Colorado and said, look, you want to get your security clearance back, take on this UFO study for us, but do it in a way that we'd like to get out of the business of reporting UFOs. Basically, that's what deal was struck there.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Okay.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And I've got some evidence to show that. Wow. Anyway, this started in 66, it ended in 68. Cotton issued an official report and didn't mention a thing about UFOs shutting down missiles at Malmstrom Air Force Base or any other base. Didn't mention anything about that, even though his own investigator was informed of these missile shutdowns by a man by the name of Ray Fowler. Ray Fowler was working for Sylvania Corporation, who had a contract on the electrical systems of the Minuteman system. And he had people working for him stationed at Malmstrom Air Force Base when these two incidents occurred, who reported to him that these were UFO sightings. During these shutdowns, Fowler decided to contact the investigator of Condon, tell him all about it, gave him names, phone numbers, people to talk to about it, and the investigator did nothing of significance about it. Fowler was angry after this report came out in late 68 and decided to give an interview to the Christian Science Monitor in 1973. Even though he was risking losing his job and also the ire of the Air Force, he gave this interview. It was published in 1973. And that's how Timothy Good found out about it and put it in his book above Top Secret. Wow. And that's how I was able to read that in there. So, yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

At what point did you start to learn about these same types of scenarios happening overseas?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

So I did a lot of research. After I went public, I started researching the subject. I also worked with a man called Robert Hastings, who wrote a book, UFOs and Nukes. UFOs and Nukes, excellent book.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

He interviewed like 160 something nuclear officers a lot.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

And after I went public with, you know, podcasts and like, what's his name? I forgot Art Bell. People started contacting me and I found out more about other incidents and also from Hastings. So in my latest book, I identified at least 13 other incidents involving UFOs and nuclear facilities. Go into some detail. One of the ones you might want to see on an animated video is the incident that happened in 1964 out of Vandenberg Air Force Base. Robert Jacobs. Yes, you may have heard of that.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yes, I've heard of Bob Jacobs. The Air Force basically tried to like deny that he ever worked for them, right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Probably, yeah. That's what they usually do. They try to deny everything. But he has also gone public. Oh, here. I think he's showing it up there.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

But he has a file that you provided us.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Okay. Is that rain?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

The nose can't separate that shaft.

[Robert Hastings]

The chaff flew out in front of We Saw this as obviously reflections of light rippling like that. And then we saw the dummy warhead flying along. It's going between 6 and 8,000 miles an hour at that point. And it's on the. The free fringe of space. And suddenly into that, that frame, an object flew in, chasing the chaff, the warhead and so on, at the same speed and in polar orbit. It fired a beam of light at the warhead. The beam of light struck that. The object flew up, shot another beam of light at the dummy of warhead, went around like this, shot another beam of light at it, went down, shot a beam of light and then flew out the same, the same way to come in. At which time the dummy warhead fell out of the frame.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Whoa. Yes, I've heard about this. This event.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah. And this was an animation you just saw. But he actually took video of this, real video because he had a very specialized equipment. And this was taken during an Atlas missile launch. An Atlas was used also for strategic weapon deliveries early on before the Minuteman. And. And you see the outcome here. He saw this video after it was developed with his commander. His commanders backed him up on this. Major management and. But they showed it with CIA agents involved. After showing this, the actual video, the CIA took the video and it was never seen again by them. But, yeah, what.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

What was the Air Force's response to. Or the government's. Did they have. Did they ever say anything to you after you came out with this stuff?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

No.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Never contact? No one ever contacted you? Nothing. No one ever tried to discredit you or say that you didn't? Well, you're a liar.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, you've heard of the Wall Street Journal report that this was all.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. This was like last year, right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah. Yeah. Whether or not the government had anything to do with that, I don't know. I can't tell you. But from time to time, people have tried to discredit this. But I. If you look at my case closely, I've got a lot of documentation supporting it and I've got witness testimony supporting it, including the principals. Colonel Walter Fiegle was in charge of the Echo Flight. I got an audio tape of him, with his permission, telling about his incident at Echo flight, where all 10 missiles were shut down during UFO sightings right over the facilities. The other incident I talked about at Minot, that gentleman has come forward publicly. He's written a book about it, about that incident. And he's named names of, you know, those guys that were in the capsule when the incident happened. So the, the 13 that I've identified include cases like the one at schosterberg, the Netherlands, 1996, I think, where there were 12 airmen that actually saw the object fly down the flight line, slowly shining again. Laser beam. Where nukes were stored. Nuclear weapons. Wow. Were stored. This is during the Cold War, of course. Right. All the incidents I reported on are documented or supported by witnesses.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Can you explain what, what was the, the gist of that Wall Street Journal article? I mean, I, I, I, I know that they tried to say that or somebody tried to say. Who was it? It was Arrow that said this Arrow with Sean Kirkpatrick. Right. They said that there was an EMP that was wheeled up into the front of, to the gates of the Air Force base. And the purpose of that was to test an EMP on live nuclear weapons to see if it would work. Or they said it could have been some sort of an Air Force hazing ritual.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

There's two options.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, neither one of those make any sense, but I, I think, you know, I talked to the guy that wrote that book. I can't remember his name or not. The article, the article. Yeah. I forgot his name now, but pull

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

up, pull up the Wall Street Journal article. Steve. He'll find it.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, he, I gave him an interview. He wanted to interview me. I said, sure, Wall Street Journal. Yeah, tell my story. But then he, he took what I gave him and then talked to, I think it was Arrow. I think I remember him saying that. I don't know whether it was Fitzgerald or not.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yep. Fitzpatrick.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Fitzpatrick or Kirkpatrick. I forgot. Patrick. Yeah. And basically what somebody told him was that. The missiles, what, what the guards saw was really a device used to generate some millions of volts of electromagnetic energy to hit our facility to see if it would withstand it. And supposedly because during a nuclear blast, a very large EMP is also released. Electromagnetic pulse in an actual nuclear blast. Right. So the thought was that when our facility might be hit in retaliation, if we launch missiles, missiles will be launched against our facilities. And that EMP could do a lot of damage. Well, the Air Force understood this and they did EMP testing at test sites. They would never have done EMP testing in an operational facility. Right. Take that risk of putting them off, offline. Right. And damaging very expensive equipment. Right. So that's why it doesn't make sense

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

without the, plus the officers knowing about it.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Plus the guards would have seen them set that equipment up. It's a very involved piece of equipment, Needs superstructure to support it and all kinds of things. They would have been out there days constructing that part of it. Right. And it would have been noticed by the guards, and the guards would have reported it to us. We were in command of the site.

[Assistant or Co-host]

Right.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

We had no reports.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

So this is the article?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah. Joel. Joel Schleichman.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. That's the guy you talked to?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Very odd that they would come out this. This late in the game and try to discredit this whole thing or paint some sort of a false narrative about it.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Very odd. So, like I say, I don't know if the government was involved in that or not.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. I think, actually Jesse pointed out on one of his videos that one of the people that was cited or one of the sources for this article worked for psychological operations for a big aerospace contractor or a big defense contractor. I think it was Grumman. What's the name? What's that one called?

[Assistant or Co-host]

Something?

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Grumman?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

North.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah, North R. She was a psychological operations person on her LinkedIn. Jesse pulled that up. I got to pee real quick. We'll be right back. When we get back, we should play that audio tape of the guy that was with you. I think that'd be great for people to hear.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Sure.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

All right. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. We're going to play this audio tape. This is the guy that was working with you that day.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Oh, which one is this?

[Assistant or Co-host]

This is Feagle.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Oh, that's Echo Flight. That's the one that happened eight days earlier.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Okay.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Okay, cool.

[Colonel Walter Feagle]

Because they were doing maintenance on, I don't know, the guidance cans or something. And the maintenance crews were staying over, and there were security and maintenance site on both two of the ten sites. And when the first one went down, I talked to the community out there. They had the port of this UFO hovering over the site. And I said, yeah, right. What are you guys drinking out there? And we struck strike teams to both of the sites that had been occupied. Both strike teams. I didn't tell them what we had heard via the LS radio, and I told them to go get within a mile of sight to call back in on the vhs. And they both had reported, too. So we had two maintenance crews, two security troops on site, and two strike teams all reporting it.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Is that right?

[Colonel Walter Feagle]

Y.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Do you remember any of the names of any of those guys? Nope.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Wow.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

So he had quite a few people reporting this UFO over one of the sites. This was just before all 10 of his missiles shut down.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Wow, that's crazy. What did. So what did you think they were did you have any ideas in your mind, like around that time, had you been interested in this stuff at all? Like, were you ever. Was this in the zeitgeist at all? Or, or like what did you make of it?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Like I said, we had had reports that were printed up in the great falls tribune that week before I went out and you know, was on duty of people seeing lights in the sky.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Strange lights, including red lights. So, yeah, I did make that connection after thinking about a little bit. And yeah, I was interested, especially when I saw him a few years later, close encounters, third guy. But I was, I was zipped up. Like I couldn't talk about it. I couldn't. I didn't even want to think about it, really. Right, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Because there's multiple options to what those things were. Like, was it some sort of top secret u. S. Tech, Was it some foreign top secret tax.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Sure.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Or was it another civilization, you know, messing with us?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

What's your best guess now after all these years?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

It's another civilization out there.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

That is visiting us and are concerned about us destroying this planet through nuclear war. And for many reasons, probably some we don't even understand. But this is a special planet. We have an immense diversity of life here. It's a, a great place for life and sentient beings, and we're about to just obliterate it.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Have you ever talked to any other people like yourself that haven't gone public, that are afraid to go public?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Oh, yeah. Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And what kind of things have they seen?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Okay, so I'll tell you about a man I call tex. All right. That's not his real name, but he was one of the maintenance people that were brought out to one of the echo flight launch facilities to go through this startup procedure. And so he goes into the maintenance bay, takes out his checklist and starts going through it and is almost to the point where he's about to bring the bird back up on alert green. However, at this point, the missile shuts down again. He doesn't understand it. And then his guard, he's got a guard upstairs, you know, and his guard shakes the ladder and says, look up here, sir. Looks up and there's this orange ball of light hovering right above him. He said he can feel the static electricity from this thing. Whoa. Yeah. And he goes up, takes a look, he says, oh my God, report this, you know, back to the base to the guard. And so the guard says, okay, sir. And then he tells the guard, I'm going to go back down and continue this Important job of getting this missile back and ready to go. Right. So he had to go back down. This object is still up there. He goes through his checklist at the same spot that it shut down before it shut down again. He said he tried this multiple times and while this object was still up there and Abyssal would simply not go further than this one particular point on the checklist. And later he told me, he said that thing, whatever it was, knew exactly how our systems worked precisely and how to disable them. This guy would make a great witness. He was head of an aerospace company. He was CEO of an aerospace company.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And way after this event occurred.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Oh yeah, this was after he got out of the Air Force.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Big aerospace company.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

One of the big. Well, it was, let's say, an important one. But he at times got real close to say, I'm gonna go forward, I'm gonna go public, you know. But each time he backed down. And that's where he stands today. He doesn't want to, you know, mess up his life basically by coming forward.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

It's crazy stuff, man.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Any other folks that you've talked to since you've come out with this who have maybe confided in you things that they're afraid to come forward and expose their reputation or potential risk going to jail for, or maybe not necessarily related to nuclear events, but anything else?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Let me just say that without going into too much detail, that one in particular person I'm thinking of was able to confirm to me to my satisfaction that he had actually flown a remanufactured or re engineered object that operated very similar to ufo. Well, I'll just let it go with that. Really? Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You trust this guy, huh?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You know him personally like, or was it just like a random guy that contacted you?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I knew him very personally. Wow.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

He said he flew a back engineered craft.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes. And I believe

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

that's so bomb. That's, that's, that's so crazy, man. It's a lot. That's a lot. What do you make of Trump coming out and saying he's going to release all these Epstein or not UFO files?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Those two.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

So Freudian slip.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. He said he was gonna release the Epstein files, but they're trying to. I'm trying to pull all that.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I'll just wait and see what happens. You know, he may, he's made a lot of promises that don't pan out. Well, you know, it's not just him. Sure.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Of course not.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

There's something called the Legacy program where major aerospace companies have Been given access to, you know, Downcraft and parts of Downcraft.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

I'm sure there's stuff that he, that he didn't even tell the President about.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, and, and there's a lot people aren't going to tell the president.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Right.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Because it, you know, may have committed crimes or done things that they aren't proud of. So he may be able to release some files, but there may be a lot that still could be hidden.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You think it'll be some sort of a limited hangout or some sort of public distraction maybe. Maybe something that really has.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

No. Yeah, we'll just have to wait and see. Yeah, but that's not going to keep me quiet. I'm going to keep talking about this, what I've experienced, and I think other witnesses will too, and we might, we might see some new witnesses come forward too. So I think that if we're going to get disclosure, I think it's going to be from people like us, you know.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

So.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

So on Robert, on Robert Hastings, specifically, what year did his book UFOs and nukes come out? Do you remember? Was that the 90s, he came out with that, or was that the early 2000s? I can't remember.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I can't remember either. Probably the 90s. I got a copy at home, but I don't.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And he interviewed you for that, right?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Oh, yeah. We've known each other a long time. In fact, I contacted him first during one of his lectures and talked to him about it, and he's the one that told me that he knows of a guy that can back up my story, and that turned out to be Robert Jameson. That guy I told you about was involved in retargeting the missile. My missiles Oscar flight.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Wow. Yeah, it is interesting. Like we were talking about before, the correlation of. Between UFO sightings around the world and all the nuclear tests and nuclear buildup. It seems to be like this was something that was happening during the Cold War. It doesn't seem like it's happening anymore. Right, but you also don't. You don't hear a lot about nuclear threats anymore either.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, yes, you do. I mean, other than Putin threatening it every other day, but.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah, but it's nothing. Nothing near what we were talking about with the Cold War between Soviet Union and the United States.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, okay, in. I think it was 68, may have been 67. There were over some 35,000. 35,000 nuclear weapons available. Right. Between the US and the Soviet Union. And that number has gone down substantially, you know, to the. Maybe a couple of Thousand. But like I mentioned before, the, the number of countries that have access to these is growing and will probably keep growing because.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Is this unlistenable?

[Assistant or Co-host]

Oh, no. We can clean it up.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Okay, cool. It's raining right now. It's really loud.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Is that rain?

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

It's rain, yeah.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Really well, yeah. The number of people, countries that have nuclear weapons will, I predict, will increase because of this concept of nuclear deterrence. The US right now is able to flex its muscle because it has overwhelming, you know, nuclear power, nuclear weapons, and people are afraid of that. But countries like Japan have talked about building nuclear weapons. I think possibly Saudi Arabia will be in a position to develop nuclear weapons in the near future because they, they've already acquired nuclear energy technology and they're using that. And one of the results of using plutonium rods, for example, to produce nuclear energy is that it increases the weapons grade uranium in those rods that could be used for dirty bombs, for example. And one of the problems we have right now is getting rid of these old, so called old nuclear rods, how to dispose of it after its useful life.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. It's interesting too because this, you know, there's not just, there's also sightings of reported UFO sightings around like nuclear power plants and things like this, like the Fukushima.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Meltdown or the earthquake that caused them. Fukushima.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Emergency in Japan.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Chernobyl. There was sites. And then also allegedly I heard that close to that aerial school in Zimbabwe, there was some sort of a plutonium mine or something like that, or they were mining some sort of nuclear materials there near there. So this is just like a correlation. Doesn't necessarily have to do with nuclear weapons sites. It also has to do with like nuclear power plants.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Other things like that. And you know, nuclear, nuclear weapons

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

aren't

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

just a threat to human lives, but they're a threat to like the earth as an organism itself, which is interesting. You know, it doesn't seem like whatever these things are, are interested, like are they interested in saving humans or are they just interested in saving the earth as a planet? That's my question.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, if you pollute the planet with radioactive material from a nuclear war.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Right.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

It's essentially gonna, you know, kill a lot of different kinds of life. Now I don't know what your spiritual beliefs are, but of course life is life. And there are a lot of even vegetation, important vegetation that we have on this planet that, you know, I'm sure they don't want to see destroyed. Yeah. So.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Well, there's, it's interesting because like

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

all

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

the species of animals on this planet and like the plants and the trees and things from like phytoplankton to all the fish in the ocean and the animals on Earth, they're, they're all interdependent upon each other and there's the symbiosis in nature and like this balance to nature and it's, we are the one thing that seems to cause the most imbalance from whether it be fishing, poaching, nuclear power plants, things like this. It's like, it's almost like we don't really fit into this puzzle.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

It's like we are the ones that are just like, are the biggest threat to it. It's like it's, it doesn't seem, it seems so strange, right? Even like just, well, the evolution of human beings, like we're so far away from, from, you know, the next, the next ape down the line from us. There's such a giant gap.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah. So. But we're in control right now.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Supposedly we're not really doing a very good job of being in control or being, you know, supportive of keeping this planet the way it should be kept.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

It doesn't seem like we are in control. Like who's in control? Yeah, you and I certainly aren't in control.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

No.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And I, it doesn't seem like the politicians that we think are, you know, running these countries are even in control. Doesn't seem like the president is in control. And you know, how many layers up does it go? And who really is in control? And people. And imagine there are people, right? There's probably people right now sitting on this earth, human beings like you and me who know the truth about what these things are that were showing up at these nuclear sites.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right? Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

There's probably pe, there's probably a handful of people at least that know the truth about all of this stuff. All of the UFO incidences, all of the abduction incidents that have been reported, all this stuff.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yeah, I agree.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

And they keep these secrets and they, they know this stuff and are they in control?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

No, I don't think they're in control either because it boils down to politics, right? It boils down to optimally, in a democracy, the people of the world should have enough information or knowledge to make the decisions that we need to make.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Or do the people maybe. I mean, according to your, your source who was the CEO of the Aerospace Corporation, if these aerospace corporations have access to down reverse engineered machines and, and you know, have. It's, it's been explained to me how The Pentagon and how the US Government has pushed all of this stuff into private organizations to avoid Freedom of Information act requests. Right. So if these private companies have all this information and know the truth about what going on, about what is going on, and they're shielded from the law because they have to be shielded from the public. Where does that go when you have, you know, multinational billion dollar capitalist organizations who are, are holding potentially the secrets of the universe in their hands, you know, who are also paying the people that are quote, running our country. How do you like, how do you fit this into your worldview?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, I think we shouldn't be naive. The world is being controlled by those who have the, the money, really, and the influence and the knowledge in these secrets. Right. Because these secrets have to be very valuable. Yes. For making weaponry, you know, advanced weaponry or maybe even changing our understanding of physics.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Highly valuable information. And yeah, they're going to try to hang on to that information as long as they can, in any way they can because of the, of this value.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Do you think there's any sort of layer above the governments, Right. Or the governments of China, Russia, United States, a layer above that basically shares all this knowledge and they agree on what they're gonna tell their people?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Yes.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah, I think so too.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I'm convinced there is what I call an international UFO cabal or a group of people who are in the know about this subject. Like you're talking about, they're controlling things, very powerful people that are controlling the use of these secrets. And I think it is, it's an international organization.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah, but I think they're probably siloing certain aspects of science as well, and scientific research.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

There was this email I was looking at yesterday, Steve. You could probably find this pretty easily. There was an email that Jeffrey Epstein sent to someone where he was bragging about how he killed cold fusion. There was some researcher or some scientist who was like on the brink of developing, improving cold fusion in a test. And apparently Epstein got a hold of this and was able to kill it. Based on a newly released document, Epstein claimed in an email to have played a role in stopping funding for, for cold fusion research in the late 1980s. The claim. In an email exchange, Epstein mentioned I killed pawns years ago, referring to Stanley Ponds and Martin Fleishman, the scientist behind the 1989 University of Utah cold fusion experiment, according to analysis of these documents.

[Assistant or Co-host]

Yeah, it's also citing Instagram though. I was looking for something.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

No, this was all over X. No, these were declass. This was a literal Declassified email. So I mean when you have stuff like that coming out, it's like, what are we doing here? Bob? Thank you for doing this, man. I really enjoyed it.

[Assistant or Co-host]

I have something I want to share with Bob and you know, maybe it'll help him feel less gaslighted by the government. So I asked the chat GPT. Well, it's not chat GPT, it's whatever this, you know, Google is. And I asked it if EMP weapons existed back then and it basically no. No EMP weapons existed in 1967 other than what can be produced from a nuclear weapon.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right.

[Assistant or Co-host]

Nuclear bomb.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

No non nuclear EMPs existed in 1967.

[Assistant or Co-host]

Specifically the research for non nuclear other also called just pulsed power weapons was in its infancy research. No mobile deployment, so it couldn't have been wheeled to the facility or even thrown up into the air. And 30ft is what I imagine how high it would have to be. And it says that it would have to be detonated or ignited. So far up and like was it 400 km into the Earth's atmosphere in order for it to affect a four mile circle in order to knock out all of those missiles? Because it would use the atmospheric. The Earth's. What does it call it? The Earth's.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

The magnetosphere.

[Assistant or Co-host]

Magnetosphere. To amplify the effect. So humans can, can't produce something that can deep dig deep into the ground. Deep enough to turn off those missiles.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Right.

[Assistant or Co-host]

Not even today.

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Right.

[Assistant or Co-host]

Certainly not back in 1967.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

You're vindicated. That's crazy. Well, it's crazy that these kind of articles can come out. This sort of just like fake propaganda on, in a. In the Wall Street Journal, no less. It's insane. Is there anything else that we should discuss before we wrap things up or tell people about?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Well, I can't think of anything right now. I'm still open to testifying, of course, in front of Congress and the public under oath about my incidents. And I think other people would also testify under oath.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Yeah. Had they had any of the officers like you that were stationed at nuclear bases go in front of Congress yet?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

Not in front of Congress. Like I said there myself and others have testified to the Arrow Group. You know, I gave him a two and a half hour briefing, sent him over 21 pieces of evidence that I have. And they said it was going to be an official part of their record. But as of yet they haven't reported on it or given my report to the Congress. I have to. Individuals such as Burleson, Congressman Burleson and others and like I said, I hope they have more hearings. I hope President Trump follows through with his promise to release UFO information and we'll just see what happens. Amen.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Well, thanks again. Is there any website that we can direct people to to find your stuff or get a hold of you?

[Bob Lazar or Bob Jamison (likely Bob Jamison, former missile launch officer)]

I have a YouTube channel. I did have a website, but I just continued it. I do have a YouTube channel under under my name and it has a lot of video of not only my incident, but other incidents people might be interested in seeing.

[Interviewer (possibly Bob)]

Fantastic. Well, thanks again for doing this. I very much enjoyed it. And we'll link all your stuff below. That's all, folks.

[Ali Jackson]

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