#398 - “There’s 10 of Them” UFO Super Users Confirmed by DARPA Scientist | Bob McGwier

Summary

Danny Jones Podcast #398 — DARPA Scientist: Military Abductions, UFO Super Users & Satan | Bob McGwier
Date: May 22, 2026
Guest: Dr. Bob McGwier (Scientist, former DARPA & intelligence community)
Host: Danny Jones

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Episode Overview

Theme:
Danny Jones hosts Dr. Bob McGwier, a veteran scientist with deep ties to the US intelligence community (DARPA, NSA, CIA), for an uncensored, far-ranging discussion about the intersection of government secrets, UFOs, psychic phenomena, deep state operations, and the enigmatic figure Chris Bledsoe. The episode dives into Bob’s career, direct encounters with anomalous phenomena, secret government programs, abduction narratives, the shadowy structure of "Disclosure," and the underlying battle over truth and control within the intelligence state.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bob McGwier’s Intelligence Background

• [00:12] Bob describes his doctorate and recruitment into the Institute for Defense Analysis, serving NSA, CIA, and other agencies.
• "I was doing technical intelligence gathering at the pointy edge of the sword all over the world for 10 years."
• Visited 72 countries, received the Intelligence Community Seal Medallion.

2. Early UFO/USO Experiences in Military Service

• [02:32] First encounter: On the USS Hampton (Los Angeles-class nuclear submarine, 1997) — “fast walker” (unidentified submerged object) goes by at impossible speeds underwater.
• "It was my first experience ever of an unidentified submerged object…nothing I knew about on Earth could ever do it." — Bob [04:24]
• [04:24] Second encounter: USS Blue Ridge (2008, Sea of Japan, typhoon), sees a massive glowing rain-blocking object with no radar signature, rising vertically into the sky.

3. Chris Bledsoe: UFO Super User & “Hitchhiker” Aftermath

• [08:51] Details first visit to Chris Bledsoe (2020), describes seeing 40-ft orbs responding to thoughts, e.g., telepathic call-and-response and "plasma"-like objects.
• "They had read my mind and I knew it instantly." — Bob [10:19]
• Discusses the “hitchhiker effect”—paranormal phenomena following people (squirts of water appearing).
• [14:10] Bob recounts a miraculous recovery from heart disease, attributes it to his involvement with Bledsoe.

4. Government Surveillance & Experimentation on UFO Contactees

• [19:53] Discloses a technical experiment with Bledsoe, later replicated secretly by government operatives, showing Bledsoe’s ability to summon-orb-like phenomena for remote cameras.
• “The house had to have been bugged. Because that exact experiment was put together by the people in the government who were around him.” [19:53]

5. Intelligence Community Games—Manipulation, Funding, Surveillance

• Bob expresses mistrust about spooks surrounding Bledsoe, suspects “operations” are in play; believes Chris is being financially supported/monitored (without his full awareness).
• “Zero confidence that they have good intentions. I don't believe they have good intentions.” [15:58]

6. Hawkeye 360—Satellites, Alien Implants & Commercial Intelligence

• [27:12] Bob founded Hawkeye 360—constellation of small satellites for geospatial/signal-intelligence.
• "If it flew over in low Earth orbit, I could detect alien implants in human bodies. And I guarantee you I can." [27:29]
• Describes capabilities: locating ships that “go dark,” detecting signals globally, and being integrated into national intelligence—yet claims he doesn’t know if they’ve detected implants (no direct access).

7. Compartmentalization, Deep State & Secrecy Structures

• Explains “stovepiping” — intelligence programs and secrets divided so nobody has a full picture except rare “super users.”
• "My job is one piece of that intelligence chain right now." [34:32]
• On hidden government: "The people that control these secret programs, they never rise above GS-15. They are the reverse engineering and secret keepers…and they are there for life." [62:49]

8. Secret Programs, Special Access, and Risk of 'Walking Away'

• [63:57] Describes the case of disappeared General McCaslin: believes high-level insiders showing signs of dementia are quietly removed to protect secrets (“you hereby waive every constitutional right you have…”).

9. Physics, Disclosure, and Government Wars

• [48:41] Bob’s 30,000-foot view: "I don't know…But I know these things: no government or corporate entity on earth…can do what we're observing."
• Discusses anti-gravity research, hidden breakthroughs, and the war within government between pro- and anti-disclosure camps.
• "There’s an absolute war going on inside the government between: 'We want to tell people something,' 'We want to tell people nothing.'” [52:03]

10. The Role of Super Users and Ultimate Gatekeepers

• "There are a handful of people inside of government that have knowledge of everything and access to everything. They are called super users." [106:11]
• Bob personally knows two “super users,” but refuses to ask them secrets out of self-preservation.

11. The Structure of Disclosure, Private Contractors & FOIA

• Information and crash retrieval/engineering programs housed in private and FFRDCs (Federally Funded Research and Development Centers, e.g., MITRE)—escape government oversight.
• "Now we know that lots of information was moved into private corporations from which there is no oversight." [104:34]

12. Abductions, Military Abductions (“MILABS”), DNA Experiments

• Discusses military involvement in abductions near Sedona, Arizona (Bradshaw Ranch, as witnessed with Melinda Leslie), hybridization programs, and rumors of deep underground bases.
• "Arizona is a deep underground military base that you can go watch stuff coming in and out of the ground." [129:51]
• [133:32] IARPA project: Concealing information in junk DNA for clandestine communication.

13. Psychic and Parapsychological Elements

• Significant focus on remote viewing, mind-matter interaction, experiences with government “Stargate” remote viewing programs.
• "I have seen in myself the ability to do remote viewing…an inanimate object and I can communicate with each other by some means." [90:42]
• Believes “hiding” these powers is a reason for government secrecy: “If we learn all of us can do it…they cannot lie to us anymore.” [91:12]

14. Societal Structures, Psychedelics, and Mind Expansion

• Describes the beneficial use of ketamine and psychedelics for depression/neuroplasticity, as well as their potential weaponization by military/government for various purposes.
• “I went from wondering if I should go on living to completely cured in three months.” [139:48]

15. Satan, Religion & The Archetype in Disclosure

• Elaborates on the interplay of religious-psychological frames (demons, Satan) with the UFO phenomenon (e.g., Jacques Vallée, Vatican archives, the history of Satan in culture and in government resistance to UFO disclosure).
• "The one thing that found most strange…when she got to the Vatican…[Tim Taylor] had been on the inside, roaming around on his own with no escort for hours." [114:05]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• UFOs at Sea: “The senior master chief came out of sonar and he said, sir, it's a fast walker and is moving faster than the speed of sound in incompressible water hundreds of meters below the surface.” — Bob [03:08]

• Telepathic Orbs: “I wish they would come out of the trees where I could see them…Boom. Right up out of the trees and into the sky. They had read my mind and I knew it instantly.” — Bob [10:04]

• Government Bugging and Surveillance: “The house had to have been bugged. Because that exact experiment was put together by the people in the government who were around him.” — Bob [19:53]

• Heart Healed by the Phenomenon: “This stress test…with all of the EKG, we did show that you have 100% functional heart…your heart is 100% functional… I knew that something miraculous happened.” — Bob [14:10]

• Secret Keepers: "The people that control these secret programs…never rise above GS-15…they are there for life." — Bob [62:49]

• Super Users: "There are a handful of people inside of government that have knowledge of everything and access to everything. They are called super users." — Bob [106:11]

• On Secrecy's Motive: "I'm sick of people inside the government lying to the citizens…We need to end this lying." — Bob [55:52]

• On the Reality of Abductions: “There’s this kind of story…abductions have stopped. They have not stopped. I have friends who are regularly abducted.” — Bob [125:13]

• Hybridization Programs: “Hybridization experiments where she met her children years later that were hybrids…this really straightforward person is probably telling me the truth.” — Bob on Melinda Leslie [130:11]

• Deep Underground Base: "Sedona, Arizona is a deep underground military base that you can go watch stuff coming in and out of the ground.” — Bob [129:51]

• On Collective Structure of Disclosure: “If you want to understand how the UFO program is put together…everybody in it can't talk to anybody out of it…information can be looked at and worked on is inside a secure facility that's cleared for that stovepipe.” — Bob [103:01]

• On the Nature of the Phenomenon: “Humanoids…cannot be random evolution on random planets… I'm just telling you what the logical inferences are…evolution does not work like that.” — Bob [92:12 & 117:19]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:12 — Bob's intelligence background and world-traveling clandestine operations
• 02:32 – 06:30 — Submarine and naval UFO/USO encounters (“fast walker,” giant object over the ship)
• 08:51 – 12:17 — Experiences with Chris Bledsoe (summoning orbs, telepathy, purple glowing phenomena, “hitchhiker” effect)
• 14:10 – 15:58 — Health miracle and transformation through contact
• 19:53 – 21:22 — Surveillance, government bugging, and replicated paranormal experiments
• 27:12 – 31:59 — Founding Hawkeye 360, capability discussion, goal of implant detection
• 48:41 – 52:03 — Big picture views: what’s really going on, government wars over disclosure
• 62:40 – 63:33 — Explains GS-15s, secrecy, and why presidents are locked out of some secrets
• 106:11 – 107:51 — Who are super users, personal relationship with some, strict compartmentalization
• 129:51 – 130:31 — Witnessed military involvement in abductions, DUMBs (Deep Underground Military Bases)
• 133:32 – 136:02 — IARPA/DARPA programs, storing information in junk DNA, contracts, and mind-machine interface research
• 139:13 – 141:40 — Ketamine therapy for depression and neuroscience, personal testimony
• 152:00 – 153:56 — NASA astronauts, cover-ups, non-human structures on the far side of the moon revelation
• 155:17 – 155:22 — Bledsoe as a designed channel for disclosure; operation runs through him by design

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Closing Thoughts

Bob McGwier provides a unique, insider/scientific perspective into the interwoven realms of government programs, UFO phenomena, psychic research, and societal secrecy. Anchored by personal experience and a plainspoken, Southern scientist’s skepticism, he oscillates between materialist and parapsychological explanations, with a persistent emphasis on governmental manipulation, compartmentalization, and the loss of objective science when one becomes directly involved as an experiencer.

Host Danny Jones stays skeptical yet deeply curious, drawing out technical background, emotional experiences, and the ultimate unanswered questions about the source, intent, and meaning of “the phenomenon.”

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Recommended Follow-Ups

• Chris Bledsoe’s public cases and Instagram (orb videos with alphanumerics) [23:43–25:34]
• Melinda Leslie (MILABS), Sedona Deep Underground Military Base claims [127:24–130:11]
• Dr. Julia Mossbridge (time/information research) [93:00]
• Dean Radin’s parapsychology papers [87:43]
• Jacques Vallée (and related “Satan” philosophical explorations) [113:24–115:07]

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Summary prepared in the tone and language of the podcast, capturing main themes, timestamped moments, and the guest’s authentic voice.

Transcript

[A]

How did, what's your background in the government? What are these three letter agencies that you used to be a part of?

[B]

Okay, so I graduated with a doctorate and I went to the Institute for Defense Analysis center for Communication Research in Princeton, New Jersey. They serve as a think tank for the intelligence community. So while there you are allowed to work on the problems you choose and with the people you wish. It's a really awesome place for guys like me and it was full of guys like me. So I worked for the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and a joint activity they have which is known as scs. And then on occasion I would get detailed to help the FBI and other things. So it was whoever detailed me, I could go and work for them. And I wound up up doing operations overseas and went to 72 countries when I never thought that would ever be my background. It just evolved.

[A]

And what were you doing?

[B]

I was doing technical intelligence gathering at the pointy edge of the sword all over the world for 10 years. And director Tennant gave me the Intelligence Community seal medallion for that work.

[A]

What time frame are we talking?

[B]

So it started in the 1990 and then ended in 2000. 1990, took off in the field in 1996 and that went on until 2010. But my last true ridiculous field operation, let's say, let me put it this way, it began in October of 2001 and ended in April of 2002. And I had to take a break.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

It was not nice.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah, it was not nice. That is not for everybody.

[A]

Intelligence gathering, human intelligence, human intelligence or

[B]

electronic intelligence or signals intelligence, whatever needed to be done. I was known as MacGyver because I could get it done from, you know, baling wire and bubble gum. And I did it all over the world. So you were technical, Technical, very technical intelligence gathering person.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It was fun.

[A]

Sounds fun.

[B]

72 countries. I mean how many people get to do that on somebody else's nickel?

[A]

How much of that stuff can you talk about?

[B]

Some of it. Some of it I will never be able to talk about. Some of it I can talk about. I like to talk about for this, for the typical UAP audience. I like to talk about when I was on the USS Blue Ridge and when I was on the USS Hampton because everything that happened there that we did as officially was absolutely as classified as it can be. But the things I'm going to tell you about, no one ever said anything to me. I signed no non disclosure agreement. They didn't tell me it was classified. So I tell the story 1997, I got on the USS Hampton, which is a Los Angeles class nuclear submarine. And we did operations for a while and the operations took us in near coastlines where we gathered intelligence. So one time we had to go out and meet a tender way out in the middle of nowhere so no one could easily find us. And we were on their way out there. We were running deep, running fast. And this really loud racket went right by the boat. And I mean, the senior master chief came out of sonar and he said, sir, it's a fast walker and is moving faster than the speed of sound in incompressible water hundreds of meters below the surface. And that was my first experience ever of an unidentified submerged object. And I looked around, nobody would look in my eye. They wouldn't speak while I was in the room. So I said, sir, I'm going to go back to my little cubicle. And he says, fine. And I left. And nobody said anything to me about not saying it. So here I am telling it. I heard an unidentified submerged object with my own ears and felt the impact on the nuclear submarine as it went by. So then later on, after my field,

[A]

he called it a fast walker.

[B]

Fast walker, that's what they called it. That was their term then. Nobody explained it to me. But it's pretty clear this thing, water is incompressible. That means it won't mash. You can't mash it in any way. And it was moving so fast without turbulence, which is called cavitation underwater. It was, to me, it was a physics miracle. I understood immediately that nothing I knew about on earth could ever do it. I knew it was not us. Instantly knew, okay, so then in 2008, I was on the Blue Ridge. I was doing a technical classified intelligence operation, so I can't talk about that, but we went through the Sea of Japan in the middle of a typhoon. And the typhoon was crazy and I was loving it, while everybody was sick to their stomach. And I was up on the bridge with the captain's permission, and we were doing like this and about 40 or 50 foot seas, 90 knot winds. And I noticed just all of a sudden the rain stopped. We were not in the eye, we were in a wall and the rain stopped. I said, how does the rain stop in the eye wall of a typhoon? So I went forward, looked out the window, and about 100 meters above the ship, I could see glowing lights that I had no idea what it was. I couldn't make out the structure. I could just see the glowing lights, but it was blocking the rain from the entire 450 foot long vessel, whatever this was, was huge. So I turned around, says, do you guys have anything on radar? No, nothing. I said, well, you might want to come look at this. They started walking and I looked up. As I looked up, the lights got really bright and boom, straight up. Because had twirling air going up. You could see the vortices from the air going up and it was gone. And the rain came back. Whatever it was, was an unidentified aerial phenomenon larger than the flagship of the 7th fleet. It was my second time with a naval vessel seeing something that was so odd. And so this is the kind of stuff that's in my mind.

[A]

How old are you at this point?

[B]

So let's see, it's two. So I was born in 1954. So you get 54 years old.

[A]

Got it. Wow.

[B]

Yeah, it was crazy. Danny was crazy.

[A]

Is that. So is that the event that kind of sparked your interest in the whole US?

[B]

That sparked me, but I had more years in service and I knew, yeah, I knew how people were treated. So in 2011, I became the Director of research and the chief scientist for the Hume center for National Security and Technology and joined the faculty at Virginia Tech. Now Ted Hume was Director of Science and Technology of the Central Intelligence Agency.

[A]

So that's the person who knows where all the skeletons are when it comes to.

[B]

He knows everything, but he never told me anything. Right, okay.

[A]

But if somebody does know where, all

[B]

of the science and technology people will know it. They would know it. Okay. Because science and technology would be the branch of the CIA that would be trying to exploit it through programs and other things. So I went to work there. And during that period of time, I had to go to a kind of an internal convention. Internal to the community convention. It was a National Reconnaissance Office. And so while I was there, I had people call me up to their office and they showed me all sorts of things, including pictures of stuff that I could not believe existed. Okay. So that went on and then I joined. I got an idea that this weird stuff was going on. So I joined the Richard Dolan community. I became the admin and administrator of the Richard Dolan forum, which I am until right now I still am. And Richard Dolan interviewed Christopher Bledsoe in four one hour segments. And I went, hmm, I think I need to go see this guy. He's only 120 miles from me in Blacksburg. Let me go over to North Carolina. So I went over and Chris took two and a half or three weeks to respond to Me. And he said, so, okay, you can come over. I says, look, I know about your dead scientist friend, and I thought you might want another scientist friend to help you get an idea of what's going on with all these orbs and other stuff.

[A]

When is this?

[B]

2020.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

January 2020. I went to Bledsoe's and we had three rainy nights and he told me basically everything that ever happened to him in those three days. Cause we had a lot of time together. And then it cleared off. We went outside and you could see this look come over his face. And when it did, a gigantic 40 foot orb flashed into existence right above the trees. And it moved around and moved around and moved in ways that nothing like that could move. No sound, looked like plasma, but it was just right above the trees and it moved off. And I went, well, I guess we got one. Chris. He says, you cannot believe. What an honor. I says, I have never seen anyone have that happen to him except you. And so I says, great, well, we'll tell Ryan so he can come out here and see that. So Ryan, his son Bledsoe does. Bledsoe said so, came out and then we had another one that was well off toward one of the Air Force bases. And it boomed into existence, went over the trees, did his thing, moved off. And Ryan was ecstatic because he had seen stuff, but never one that large. It was at least 40ft across right above the trees. And it moved off and vanished.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So inside the trees you could see these things that look like flashbulbs going off. And that's when my mind started clicking. If these are pulses in electromagnetic energy that I can see, these are pulses that I can collect with technical equipment and see what I can figure out about them. So that my mind was already going. And then I says, then I went here, not out loud, right here. Wow. I wish they would come out of the trees where I could see them in less than a second. Boom. Right up out of the trees and into the sky. They had read my mind and I knew it instantly. That's how it happened. And so then we were out there for a little while. Not much happened. And then I began to notice this, what looked like the surface of a pond rippling right above the trees, but it was purple and glowing. And then Chris couldn't turn his neck up at the time because of his arthritis. I says, there's this purple glowing stuff above here, Chris. He says, yeah, that happens some. Not often, but it happens. And then I look and kept looking, wanted to know what happened next? And it went. And this disappeared like somebody turned off a light switch. And without blinking an eye, Chris said, not one second later, Chris said, okay, they're gone. They're done for the night. We can go inside. And he never once looked up. He is ab. I knew then he was absolutely in communication with whatever that was.

[A]

What do you think that shit is?

[B]

I don't know. I'm just going to tell you like any good scientist. What. I saw that stuff, but I don't know what it is. But now you understand why I got into all of this as a scientist, et cetera.

[A]

That was sort of the biggest thing that drew you in.

[B]

Biggest thing that drew me in was being with Chris Betso. And one more fact, when I got there, he said, do you know why you're here? And I said, because you wanted to talk to me and see if I could help. He says, no, you're here because Jim Semivan told me to let you in, that it would be interesting. And, you know, Jim Semivan was like a big, huge deal in the clandestine service at the CIA and was Chris's friend, right? And he had told him, let me in. So here we are. And I began having experiences, like, very rapidly since.

[A]

What do you make of all these crazy, spooky people becoming super interested in befriending him because of his stories?

[B]

Well, that's a very good thing. He's my friend. So after. So. So let me do one more thing and you'll get my. You'll get my attitude. I left, went home and have stuff follow me home. It's called hitchhiker. Within two weeks. Oh, yeah. Within two weeks we had weird experiences in our home. And so we had squirts of water appear out of the air and hit me on my leg and on my chest. That's okay, we're good. Okay. On my head and on my chest. And squirts of water. Squirts of water. That's what I thought it was all like. I couldn't tell because, I mean, it looked like water and it. And then I heard squeal at the other end. And she was down there washing clothes. I went down there quickly and squirts of water were on her clothes and on the floor. I said, did you get squirted? She says, yeah, and it came out really air. So I called Chris up and I said, chris, I know you've got this talk coming up at UFO Con in San Francisco. I'm gonna work with Laurie Wagner, who is a well known person in Los Angeles. To help you write this talk. And he says, oh, I'm so grateful. Cause I'm so scared about doing this. I said, we'll help you. Don't worry. So he gave his first public talk at UFO Con in 20 on the evidence he's gathered. And I helped craft it along with another friend. I says, I think they wanted me to do this all along. And she says, I think you're right. And so that was the beginning of COVID She and I isolated. And then when I saw that they were going to close Virginia Tech the next year and maybe beyond, I retired. And before I retired, I decided to go to my cardiologist because I had four heart attacks and quadruple bypass.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Okay. So I don't look like that now, do I? No. That's because when I got to the cardiologist, he said, okay, let's do a stress test to make sure you're okay. It might take you a while to find a good cardio down there. So he put it on the treadmill, and he kept going and going and going. And he had me sweating bullets, man. I thought I was going to pass out, and I stopped. And he said, okay, come on into my office. And I went, cleaned off, dried off, whatever, went into his office. And he said, tell me what's been going on. I says, I've just been following your orders, taking my medicine, trying to get a little exercise, tried to keep my weight down, which I needed to do more on. He says, nah, that's not what I'm talking about. I says, well, what do you mean? He said, if I wanted to, I couldn't charge you anymore for coming in here because your insurance wouldn't pay for it. I says, why that? He says, because this stress test with all of the EKG, we did show that you have 100% functional heart. It's the heart of an athlete. 30 to 40 years old. I've had athletes come from the university that cannot do what you just did on that treadmill. You don't have any heart damage. And I said, I have a coronary bypass and four heart attacks. He says, no, your heart is 100% functional. And that was it. I just knew that something miraculous happened. So that was the moment, Danny, when I said, I cannot be objective where Chris is concerned. I'm going to be friends with him and his family. I'm not going to be a scientist. So I withdrew from doing science and just became his friend. So I have watched these people encroach on him, and I have Zero confidence that they have good intentions. But he is a.

[A]

You have zero confidence.

[B]

Zero confidence that they have good intentions. They have good intentions. I don't believe they have good intentions. I don't have proof, but it's this feeling inside. And look, I love this guy. I love this man and his family. He's my brother, very nice man. I love them a lot. But he loves, he is a super patriot from North Carolina that was raised in an evangelical church kind of mentality. And if the government comes and wants his help, he's going to help them no matter what. And I just don't know what is going on. I don't understand the role of Jim Garrison and all those people that are trying to get stuff going. Jim Garrison has this deal now, this world of light that used to have Gorbachev in it as his world spokesman. And now Chris is, as Jim Garrison himself said, Chris is the new, is the new Gorbachev for this. And I just have no good feeling about any of it. But he's my friend and I'm not deserting him because I want to be there in case he needs me.

[A]

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[B]

who allegedly mapped Lou Elizondo.

[A]

Lou Al.

[B]

You mean Hal Povenmire? Hal Povenmire was the scientist that had died from a fall in his driveway. Hit his head and died. And the reason I thought Chris might want another scientist. That was the genesis of my idea to go and help Chris.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. He died at Thanksgiving. And in the beginning, Povenmyer was supposed to be monitoring Chris for NASA. And in the end, he wound up adopting them as a family and vice versa. And he was just all the way inside. Graduations, everything. He went to every family event, like me. You go and meet these people and you realize they may not understand what's going on, but they are completely 100% genuine. They don't lie. They may not get stuff right, but they don't lie. They're not the kind of people that lie.

[A]

Right. Well, they're certainly. It doesn't mean they're immune to being screwed with by outside forces.

[B]

No, no, no. Look, I am certain that Chris is being financially supported by people. Yeah, I'm certain of that. Without knowing the details.

[A]

Yeah, There's.

[B]

There's.

[A]

There's certainly outside forces that are trying their hardest to manipulate at whatever level, whether it be financial or at. If you want to talk about, like, some sort of, like a disinformation, Paul Benowitz level, like maybe trying to convince him that this stuff is something it's not, to push some sort of narrative.

[B]

Okay, So I have one example of a thing I know about because I was involved when I went to visit him. I proposed at the end of the visit. I said, you know, I've seen your evidence. I propose an experiment. And the experiment is we're gonna take somebody 1,000 kilometers or more away. We're gonna set them up with a camera. Not a camera we provide, but they have a camera. We're gonna tell them to point it whichever way they want, no matter what. And you're gonna ask your entities to go peer right in front of the camera as the shutter's going. Click, click. Now, how do I know it worked? The reason I know it worked is because after my heart attack and all this other stuff, I decided not to do that with him. But the house had to have been bugged. Because that exact experiment was put together by the people in the government who were around him. And he swears to me he did not tell them. So the house is bugged and I know they're monitoring him. But that experiment was done in front of a ton of government witnesses. And that was the moment when they knew Chris was in communication with whatever this non human intelligence is. Because you can't sit there with your eyes closed and say, please go in front of the camera and him have no idea where it is, no idea what direction the camera is pointed in, and do exactly what he asked them to do in front of many government witnesses.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

That was the thing that convinced him he was real. That's one. And the other thing is he warned several friends in Washington that if the Pope came to Philadelphia and they did not do something, he was going to be assassinated. That actually happened and the assassination attempt was foiled.

[A]

Well, we had him down here at the beach and we took him right across the street to Indian Rocks beach. And Steve brought his camera and we sat out on the beach with him and his wife and his daughter Emily. For how long do you think that was, Steve? About two hours. Towards the end, maybe like an hour and 45 minutes into it, he was like praying to God. Like they were all praying, trying to get these things to show up. And about. Yeah, about like an hour and a half, maybe hour, 45 minutes into it, we started to see these things. Like I saw one like shooting star fly right over my head. And then out in the distance on the horizon, we saw an orb moving. And then it stopped, faded out. And then we saw another orb kind of like come out of the water where the water met the. Met the sky horizon. Here it is.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

See that red thing right there?

[B]

Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen this video.

[A]

This is what we filmed on the beach with him. And the only thing I could, I could, if I could explain this away, I could say maybe it's a boat that turned its lights on and then turned its lights off.

[B]

Well, the neat thing is you got an airplane to the upper left and

[A]

the airplanes were flashing. There was lots of airplanes. So that was not an airplane. Look, another one now going to the left. Yeah, now watch. That one will get brighter and then it'll fizzle out. Look how crazy that is.

[B]

That happens every time with these orbs. So when I went with him to the beach at Wilmington, North Carolina. Yeah, we sat there for about an hour and then over the next two and a half hours, over 200 of them flew over in front of hundreds of people. And at the end, the pieces de resistance was these two gigantic orbs flew over and they had wings.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Looked like an orb with an angel wings. Flew right over the crowd. I saw my own two eyes.

[A]

Wow. His photos that he's been posting on Instagram are pretty insane.

[B]

Well, they are now because he has this fancy new high definition, low light level camera and he's getting alphanumerics written on the wall of the orb. Something is trying to send a message. Yeah, you go look at his stuff. Now alphanumerics are on the wall of these orbs. Something is sending a message.

[A]

What kind of cameras he use?

[B]

I don't remember the details. Oh, my God. I told you, I'm not directly involved and I don't want to be directly.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't want to be used. I don't want to help him being used. This also, all the sources stuff and people go, it's just out of focus, bud. I got news for you. That is perfectly focused.

[A]

Apple Pro resolution. Thank you to Peter. Yeah, look at that, man. What is it like super, like slow motion too, or something?

[B]

Yeah, very high speed. And you can see the internal structure and it is fully in focus.

[A]

Is it plasma?

[B]

I don't know what it is. I can't even hazard a guess. I would need more instruments to tell you whether it was plasma or not.

[A]

Did you catch one of those things?

[B]

Well, there's another one. This one is greenish and you can clearly see letters and numbers typed on it.

[A]

Really? Yeah, on his Instagram.

[B]

On his. On his Instagram. Somewhere on here. I don't remember which one.

[A]

Steve, you'll be able to find it. Maybe. It's probably huge. It's got to be huge.

[B]

That looks like it. That. That's it. Just look at, look at, look at the digits. Huh? Yeah, look. Something three, five, zero, something. But you think that's an out of focus object? No, it's completely in focus and you can see the alphanumerics. Something is sending a message.

[A]

It's bizarre.

[B]

Yep. Life around Chris Bledsoe is bizarre.

[A]

Yeah, well, it's like those, those orbs are certainly real. I saw them with my own eyes. It's just like, what are they and what is it about him that enables him to be able to summon those things and bring them in?

[B]

So his time with Beyond Skinwalker Ranch, those guys hooked him up to really fancy electroencephalographs and they watched his brain separate into two Halves and one become quiet and what's called the intuitive part light up. And he knew he would turn and look whenever that happened, wherever they were going to show up. And they showed up there. They got detailed evidence.

[A]

That's how I actually learned about Chris Bledsoe. It was in, I would say, I want to say it was like 2022 or 2023 maybe. I had that dude, one of those guys, Andy Bustamante down here, and we were chatting and he's like, danny, I wanted to tell you about this. He's like, there's this guy, I can't get him out of my head. We did this, the show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I hooked him up to an EEG on top or whatever thing is you put in your head to, to measure his brain waves and some of these orbs and he's like, dude. He's like, I cannot figure out for the life of me what this could possibly be.

[B]

Me either.

[A]

He goes, the only thing I think of is it could be some sort of like secret DARPA black budget stuff, like, like maybe like low orbit satellites that they can move around. He's like, but I can't think of any. I can't explain it. And he's like, dude, you should get this guy on your podcast. And that's how I read his book. And then I invited him.

[B]

I wrote. I wrote all these satellite claims off because I was. I'm the founder of 360, which is a satellite intelligence gathering company with small satellites. And it's done well, it IPO'd on the Dow Jones last week.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you. I'm very happy about it. And I'll tell you why I did the company. I had a download of idea that would work. I couldn't get anyone to believe me, so I found a venture capitalist that would buy in. Of course, that gave him 51% of the company on day one, but never got going. And the reason I did it is I was certain that the method we were going to use, if it flew over in low earth orbit, I could detect alien implants in human bodies. And I guarantee you I can.

[A]

This is why you did it?

[B]

Why I did it. But that's not all it's good for. I mean, it's now found Chinese build up on the Indian border and warned them before anyone else did that the Chinese were about to attack it found illegal fishing vessels around the Galapagos Islands and they confiscated and drove off all the illegal fishing that was in these protected waters around the Galapagos and a bunch of other stuff. It's now officially included in the US national technical means to do geospatial intelligence gathering from orbit as a commercial entity where the intelligence community buys data as a service. They didn't buy the satellites. They didn't pay for the satellites. They can't tell me what I can do with the satellites. They can tell me what I'm not allowed to do with the satellites. For example, I'm not allowed to help. Guess what? Russia or North Korea or any of those, right? Yeah, but that's Hawkeye.

[A]

How many satellites do you have?

[B]

So it's 60 now. It's going to be well over 120. 20. 128 satellites is, I think, the ultimate goal.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. And the thing.

[A]

And you built these satellites?

[B]

Yeah, I came up with the entire concept and so I patented it. My patents are public. People can go look at them. But often with these kinds of downloads, you realize that you have a good idea, you don't know everything you need to make it happen. So the thing I got very good at with these downloads was assembling teams that could help me. So we assembled a team, founded Hawkeye 360, and a few years later, here we are direct from a startup to on the Dow Jones Direct. The company's worth over a billion and a half dollars now. And I tell you, when I started, I wanted to succeed in building one satellite. I had no idea. I literally did not have a clue where this was going.

[A]

How does it work? What's so special about it?

[B]

Okay, so you get kind of a picture. So there's three satellites, one at each corner of a triangle. They fly over. So this pretend, this microphone is the radio. And I want to try to find it moving over. Now I've got three looks at that signal. So the time from here to this satellite, time from here to this satellite, and the time from here to this satellite are all different. Time difference of arrival of things that are moving at the speed of light. Coming into a system like that, where you know everything you need to know about these is tells you where that thing is located. Okay. Then we had to come up with a method that didn't care what kind of signal it was, but was extremely sensitive. Really, really sensitive. So with small antennas, it has the same signal gathering capability as an antenna hundreds of meters across. Hundreds of meters, and it doesn't matter the frequency from 50 MHz to well above into 10 GHz. It can find these signals anywhere on Earth. And the technology is going to get better and better and better. And it is really, it's going to totally transform geospatial intelligence gathering. So the big companies, they charge a billion or more dollars for a single spacecraft or two spacecraft that is built from 10 year old technology because it has to already be flight proven. Whereas Hawkeye can use current technology and fly a lot of them. Fly them in low earth orbit and if one of them goes bad, have somebody send rocket Labs or SpaceX send up another SpaceX and Rocket Labs have launched all my spacecraft. Hawkeye spacecraft.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

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[B]

They've lost all and there's a lot

[A]

of satellites up there. We got to be careful.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Have you heard this? Seen this Kessler Syndrome stuff?

[B]

No, no. I know about Kessler Syndrome are it has to get a lot worse to have that actually happen. And Musk and his team are very, very good at not having that happen. They've really perfected Collision avoidance maneuvers.

[A]

Oh really?

[B]

Yeah. I have a student, his name is Andrew Rogers. He was an aerospace engineering student. And he wrote the best PhD thesis at Virginia Tech in 2007 or 8. And it was how to do maneuvers with small spacecraft using jets and optimizing the fuel consumption and still getting the job done.

[A]

So those things are moving how fast?

[B]

Oh, 17,000 plus miles an hour. But relative to each other, they're not moving fast. These things are reasonably stationary compared to each other. And that's the stable reference. You have clocks that are stable, signals that are stable. Everything is stable. You know where they are. And that moving signal below you here helps you to determine where it is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And we are not allowed under any circumstances to listen to the signal to see who is saying what. All we can do is say this is the frequency it's operating on. Here is its location. And then from other data that's publicly available. Or the insider should get even more of who would be on that frequency in that location using that kind of thing. And then they can determine who owns it and who's doing what. But that's not our job. Our job is one piece of that intelligence chain right now.

[A]

Have you found any implants with it?

[B]

I don't know the answer. Because I pull back and I'm on to other adventures. I don't see the day to day inside operation.

[A]

Wasn't that your goal from this from the jump?

[B]

Yeah, but doesn't belong. I'm on to other things. Like when I got my part done, I went on to other things. Which is just what you'd expect from a crazy serial entrepreneur type guy, which is what I am. Wow.

[A]

What other kind of stuff can these satellites do?

[B]

That's mostly their only job. Okay, that's mostly their only job. So. Okay, so ships that are on the ocean lie about where they are. There's a shock. So they turn off a system called AIs. But they never turn off things that'll help them avoid a mess. So the things they leave on. Cause they can't afford to turn them off are things that Hawkeye can find and say, oh, it's lying about where it is, or here it is and they're not doing what they're supposed to. We can find them no matter where they are.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so what you do is you see where they came in and went dark. You track them with this other signal. So you say, oh, this was that ship. It came in from there, but it went dark. But not to us.

[A]

That makes sense. Yeah, that's Wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So going. Going back to your work with the CIA, and you said you also worked with the nsa.

[B]

NSA and CIA. Almost everything I ever did there is

[A]

really classified at nsa.

[B]

Both of them.

[A]

At both of them.

[B]

Both of them, very classified.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But what I was doing mostly for them is the following kinds of thing. Something that was technical, that needed to have collection done on it, way out in the field. I would learn everything I could, devise a system I thought would do it, and then take it out into the field, and whatever we got wrong, fix it while I was there in the field. And so that turned into a. I did it once, then they said, well, you do it again. Did it twice. I was successful both times. And finally it turned into a. Every time I got home, another one was ready. And that lasted for 10 years.

[A]

Right. And it seems like you were operational in a very different theater and very different. Very different time and doing very different because I know, like, CIA is very compartmentalized with, like, the different things that you're doing, and you weren't anywhere near this kind of science and technology stuff when you were in there. So.

[B]

Okay, so I was not. But. But I worked for them in places overseas where I understood everything they were doing, because I had to be read in to even go into those spaces. So whatever they were doing in these spaces that I would go in and try to help them improve, modify, et cetera, their technical collection is highly secret. But I got to know everything that was going on in there, and so I just don't talk about it.

[A]

Right, right. And then didn't you say you worked for Sandia Labs or something? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So when I graduated from college, I worked at Sandia National Labs and learned very quickly, especially in the 70s, that if you were a guy doing stuff at a place like Sandia, which is a federally funded research and development center, which means a private corporation that's principally funded by the government. And. And I found out I was working on supercomputers, on great problems, mathematical code. And I realized that if I wanted to be in charge of that, where I could really have an impact, I had to get a PhD. So after a while, I resigned, went and got my PhD from Brown University in applied math with concentrations in physics and computer science.

[A]

And what would you say your thesis was for PhD?

[B]

Oh, it's nonlinear filtering. So nonlinear filtering is this thing I told you about these satell moving over that uses a nonlinear filter, which is the estimation of a state of a dynamical system, like this thing sitting on the ground when we fly over with noisy and perturbed observations. It's highly nonlinear, extremely difficult math. And no one had done any kind of numerical work at the time. So I'll tell you one thing I did with it. As soon as I got out of school, I went to work at the Institute for Analyses in Princeton. And a visiting scientist from JPL came and he brought a problem. And he says, this is a very difficult problem. We've got these signals that we can't figure out how to handle. And I want to know if you can do anything that will figure out to handle them. So I looked at the signal and I figured out fairly quickly that it was a digital communication signal that was weak, was experiencing high oscillation in its frequency. And I just say, I think the stuff I've done will do it. It'll take me probably six weeks to get it on the supercomputer. So I got it on the supercomputer and it just tuned it perfectly. I could see the data sidebands. I could see the carrier free. Like it was like an FM radio station, AM radio station with the modulating voice signal out here. And I tracked this, and the voice modulating signal stayed stood. Cause it has a fixed relationship to this. So I demodulated it. And a woman that worked with me and us, we figured out the decoding of the data. And when we got decoding of the data and got down to a telemetry frame, we could see what's called a cyclic redundancy check code. And that means if you send a bunch of data, you want something that tells you it's an error or not an error. So when we got these frames and we computed there were no errors inside at all. We went, oh, these frames are interesting. So we told this guy from JPL that we had done it. And he says, explain it to me. And soon we were typing up the zeros and ones from these frames on a piece of paper with gloves on our hands. And got on an airplane with a paper and an envelope, Flew from Princeton, from the Princeton area to California to jpl. And these folks walked out and they came back and says, okay, the Russians are really happy. And I went, what? They says, oh, yeah, we got permission. Your data was a Venus Vega balloon probe. They flew by Venus. They dropped off these balloon probes into the Venus atmosphere. And they gravity kicked on the way to Halley's Comet. But we got some transmissions.

[A]

Halley's Comet?

[B]

Yeah, it went to Halley's Comet by flyby of Venus Gravitational assist flyby of Venus and went to Halley's Comet. But it dropped these balloons off into the atmosphere and they had atmospheric measuring equipment on them. And these telemetry frames carried all the data. And they couldn't figure out, figure out these frames. So we got them and they were ecstatic. The story was, I was told they went into the other room, met their Soviet counterparts and says, okay, you know when we told you that you could use the Deep Space Telescope and we would not record the data? And they said yes, it says if we could tell you we could demodulate the frames that nobody's ever been gotten the data from, what would you say to we recorded the signals anyway. And so they had to call somebody. And when they got off the phone call, they says, if you don't say anything, we won't say anything. So they gave them the data and it had what's called nephelometer and other data from deep inside the atmosphere of Venus. And they never would have gotten it had this guy not brought me this problem. And the stuff I did for my PhD thesis worked perfectly.

[A]

That's beneath.

[B]

It's a wild story, isn't it? It's just wild.

[A]

So it went into the clouds.

[B]

Went into the clouds. And the way it worked is it had a thermometer inside the instrument package. It had a balloon up here and the package would inject helium or let helium out and it would bob up and down. So they had a control mechanism. If it went too deep, it would get too hot. So it went way too deep, way too fast. And what's called the thermal coefficient of thermal conductivity coefficient was wrong because they guessed wrong. So it heated up too slowly and went in too deeply. And when it got down there, it had winds that were hundreds of kilometers an hour. The oscillators inside that control the frequency got really, really hot and jittery. So between the Doppler from the gondola being kicked around because that's a pendulum and the oscillator being unstable, they just, their equipment and programs just couldn't do it. Whereas I had this nonlinear filtering based piece of code that didn't matter. None of that stuff mattered. And so I just took care of it.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

It's a crazy story, Danny.

[A]

So is that the first, how long ago is this?

[B]

Let's see, 2006.

[A]

When was the first time we actually figured out like the temperature or sent a probe into Venus?

[B]

That would have been probably earlier when the Soviets landed the Venera on the Surface, Surface. They had temperatures and they. That was when they. When they realized it was hundreds of atmospheres and hundred degrees and would melt lead. They knew that. People guessed, but they knew for certain after the Russians landed their thing on the surface.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's like hell.

[B]

It is literally hell on Earth. But isn't there hell in the space?

[A]

Isn't. Isn't there theories out there that there could be life in the atmosphere of Venus?

[B]

Yeah, there is now because of the chemicals that have been detected in the upper atmosphere of Venus. And we don't know of another process that is not biologically based that would make those chemicals. So it's an indicator of life without being proof of life.

[A]

Right, I see.

[B]

So what they want to do is send a probe that'll actually stay there and work and see if they can't find the microbes that are doing it.

[A]

And didn't you also meet Carl Sagan?

[B]

Yeah, so. So, so everybody learned the story. And so when they learned the story, Clinton was president. And he said, we want to do transfer of technology that is built on the inside to people outside that can use it. So all sorts of stuff can be done and won't involve giving away intelligence we gathered or national technical means. I didn't know any of this. I just was told, go down to nsa, go to the chief scientist office at nsa, Kay Spireman, and go in there and be prepared to talk about the Venus stuff you did. So I went in there, had no idea who would be in the room, walked in there, and there was Carl Sagan, Arthur Clark.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And I went, what in the hell is this? And so case by him says, the President has ordered us to give technology to people that might use it who are not in the intelligence community but doing scientific and other interesting work. These people are from seti. We believe you have technology that will help them. So we told them about the technology, and when that was the first moment that the Vulcan Venus scientist Carl Sagan knew who demodulated that data you should have, it was literally stereotypical. Okay, this is a great story. Millions of people are going to want to know this story. I says, Carl, I says. He says, boy, that's great work. And I says, all I want is an autograph.

[A]

Well, that's crazy. He was at the nsa.

[B]

Oh, oh, no, no. The story gets better, Much better. He's supposed to be this enemy of the national security state. You saw that in Cosmos. You saw it in his publisher. No, he had on his shirt a badge. On this badge was Carl's name on this badge was his picture. The only way you get a picture badge allowing you to roam around the intelligence community is to be a cleared insider. He was a cleared insider. I knew it the minute I saw that badge.

[A]

Like a contractor.

[B]

He was a contractor because he had a green border.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. He had a green contractor badge. Intelligence community special badge.

[A]

Yeah, because wasn't there like, as far as his timeline is concerned, wasn't there like a point in time where he like stopped believing? You know, the whole UFO thing where he was like a big proponent of it and then he kind of stopped.

[B]

And I want to say all I know is what I told you when that happened or how it happened. I don't know. I know that when he was younger he was. He's already known to have been interested in all sorts of things, but it's consistent with reverse engineering, secret space program and all those kind of people saying if you're going to be cleared, you got to shut up. And it's consistent with that without me having any evidence that that happened because I just don't know.

[A]

Right. Wow, that's a freaking crazy story, man. Considering everywhere you've been, your whole career in the intelligence community and all the independent research that you've been doing, what is your 30,000 foot view of what this whole phenomena is?

[B]

That's a very good question. And like any good scientist, I'm going to tell you exactly what I think. I don't know, but I know these things. We could not have done it. No government on earth or corporate entity that I'm aware of that's ever been known in the public can do what we're observing. They move in ways that I don't think physics allows. They do things that. I don't know how they do it, but even if physics allowed it, like become invisible and move around lickety split, move as if there's no resistance in the air, move as if there's no resistance in the water, move from the water to the air at speed. I don't know anything on Earth that can do that thing that goes like this and then turns all of a sudden. Goes that way. Anything ins, anything we would build be squashed into a bloody pulp. Right? I mean, I don't know anything except I know we didn't do these things. That's what I know.

[A]

Anything would be. Would be squashed into a bloody pulp. Unless there was a drone remotely operated.

[B]

No, even that could because the drone would have to have an airframe and that rapid accelerating turn would Crush the airframe into bits.

[A]

What do you mean? I don't know what an airframe is.

[B]

The body of the drone would break.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

There's no material I know that could take those stresses and be a drone.

[A]

Do you think it's. You don't think it's possible that any of the stuff like the Tic Tacs or any of the other things could be reverse engineered, like deep DARPA stuff?

[B]

I believe that if they have access to technology that was not developed on Earth, they could make a Tic Tac. I don't say they didn't. And so, as a matter of fact, sitting on my deck in Havre de Grace, MD, I've looked up and watched a triangle craft silently fly over my home at about 500ft above my home. And I went, I have no idea how that works. And it was stereotypical triangle whisper. Nothing. You couldn't hear a sound. And it just moved smoothly across the sky, had lights on each corner and an orange light in the middle. And it flew right toward Aberdeen Proving Grounds. Right over my house.

[A]

Just before, after you met Bledsoe?

[B]

Oh, after. Well after. Well after. Yeah. I didn't move to Harvard DE Grace until 2023.

[A]

Wow. So you've been experiencing all this since you met Bledsoe?

[B]

Oh, yeah, Non stop. It's like every day. So I go out with friends and I go, okay, we might see something and something will show up. I've got thousands of photos. I just don't broadcast it much.

[A]

What do you make of how much attention did you pay to those files that just came out by the government? I was talking to Jesse. He says, nothing's really new.

[B]

Jesse and other people like him and me, we knew everything in them before they ever came out. But we only got them from secret tellers who are breaking the rules. The difference is it's gone from, we know a guy that told us, trust me, bro, these are. Came from the government. And there it is in black and white, what we always knew. There's a difference. There's a difference between trust me, bro and official document. So that much is good. But I'm expecting.

[A]

Seems like it was just like a distraction trying to distract.

[B]

I don't believe that. I don't believe that. So other friends I have said, oh, no, just wait. I believe that Friday, 5pm every week or two for a while, we're gonna get dribbles. And what Trump is doing, in my opinion, God bless him for doing it. But what I think he's doing is go until he Sees the pain level increase and worries that he might get assassinated if he went any further. And so he's just slowly but surely releasing, seeing where the pain point is. Because I guarantee you this, I know the phylum follows. There's an absolute war going on inside the government between. We want to tell people something. We want to tell people nothing. They are at war with each other. Everybody looks at the government and thinks it's a monolith. It's not a monolith. It's a thousand different entities, all of them competing. This one hating that one, this one loving this one. It's a community, but it's a community of competing interests. Every one of them wanting resources that the other one has.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I just feel like that Trump's got so many fires he's tending to right now. I don't think the UFO one is of concern to him. I don't think he's ever really been interested in it at all.

[B]

But what he's done, I think is turned it over to someone else. And they are determined. Like, I'll give you. I'll give you my guess. My guess is this, Rubio I just

[A]

saw this morning that allegedly did you. I saw this on Twitter that apparently someone, the CIA went and stole a bunch of files from Tulsi Gabbard's office about MK Ultra and about.

[B]

That's not quite the story I heard.

[A]

I heard find that.

[B]

No, no, no. I wanted. The nuance I heard is she was responsible for collecting that stuff. She took it into her office. You can find Representative Luna online today, raising hell with her about those documents and going. And there's a fight going on between her and the CIA guy, Ratlinger, Rattinger, whatever it is. And they are mad with her about hoarding that stuff because it's JFK files, Epstein files, UFO files, all sorts of files. And she is violating the rules.

[A]

Let's listen to this, Steve.

[B]

Yeah, it would be worth it for us.

[A]

Just. You can throw your headphones on. You'll be able to hear it there. Oh, I still only have one side.

[B]

All documents were released. And this just in, John. The CIA just raided Tulsi Gabbard's office. Agents hauled out dozens of boxes, files on the JFK assassination and MK Ultra, the CIA mind control operation which she was in the process of declassifying. Today's whistleblower said it during his deposition and Congresswoman Anna Polina Luna confirmed it moments ago. Reason why this is troubling is a. There was an executive order that the President had directed the full declassification of jfk, but then also to the MK Ultra files. The CIA famously has said that, you know, all documents were released and other documents had been destroyed. So these are allegedly those documents that apparently never existed. And this just in, John. If you want to listen to a guy, listen to Kuryaka.

[A]

I love karaoke.

[B]

He is a truth telling guy and he does not give a damn about what the consequences are. I love that guy.

[A]

Well, he's dealt with the consequences.

[B]

I've loved two years in prison. Yeah, he was willing to do it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, he is a great guy. Yeah, it's bonkers. I don't know. I. I don't know what to make of it.

[B]

I'm sick of this. I'm sick of the secrecy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm sick of people inside the government lying to the citizens. And it doesn't matter which party it is, they both do it. We need to end this lying.

[A]

I've got to be honest. Jeans have always been a problem for me. They always make you choose between looking sharp or being able to move like a real human. These things stretch where you need them to stretch. I can squat, bend, sit, skate, move around, all without pinching stiffness or weird bunching around the ball area when you sit down. And they still look sharp. That's what surprised me most. You get that clean, fitted look of real denim, but they already feel broken in right out of the box. I've been wearing these bad boys when I do everything from sitting around for a four hour podcast to doing workouts, skating, you name it. And I forgot I was even wearing jeans. They got a ton of fits too. Waist from 26 to 52 lengths, up to 38. Six fits and a bunch of washes. So you're not forcing your body into some random template. Their pants are made for actual humans and their shorts I'm wearing this summer are 60 bucks. You've got to get a pair. Our listeners get 15 off their first order plus free shipping at the Perfect Gene NYC. Or Google the Perfect Gene and use the code Danny15 for 15% off. That's 15% off your first order plus free shipping at the perfect gene NYC and use the code Danny15. Do you think that there is some sort of a agreement going on behind the door, behind the scenes? Like above the level of the politicians who don't seem like they really know jack of the people who really know the truth about this stuff.

[B]

Cooperating with how these things are done is inside. Someone will write a position paper and they'll make a proposed document of it. It'll go from this entity to this entity to this entity to this entity, all over government. Anyone who has a stake in the content of that paper gets to comment on it and make suggested changes. That happens in every one of these things. It's a lengthy, painful, horrible process. I don't ever want to go through it again, ever again. Right now I'd rather do tech, tech bro, geek work on the outside than ever deal with that again.

[A]

Right? I mean, like. What I mean is like, do you think that between all these big nation states that could be also doing some sort of research on this stuff or have some sort of crazy material not from this earth or even beings or whatever? Do you think there is some sort of like deep, deep, deep, deep back channel between all of them coordinating on how we're going to display this to the public or how we're going to. How we're going to drive this narrative forward?

[B]

Since the strategic arms talks between Nixon and Brezhnev, each side knew that the other was experiencing UFOs over missile silos. And some communication went back and forth through whatever secret channels are normally done. And in the START Treaty, there is explicit lines that say what we will do to help each other if the UFO stuff hits the fan. Now, that's my translation of it, but it is in that document and has been since Nixon and Bradshaw were in power. So we are, in fact cooperating. We have documentation that we're cooperating, I believe. Let's see, I don't remember if this is declassified or not. Just let me say this. We have cooperated very, very, very deeply on intelligence gathering operations with the Chinese, on Chinese soil. Oil like no one can even imagine. I don't know whether that still goes on, but I know for a fact it happened. I don't know where it happened. I know why it happened, where it

[A]

happened, and why we work with intelligence gathering operations with the Chinese inside Chinese

[B]

territory, with their cooperation based on an agreement. And that's all I'm allowed to say because it's known now. This is known now, but I'm telling you it's public. Yeah, I think it's known now that we cooperated with the Chinese. What exactly we did there, I will never say, and I'm not certain that's released, but I guarantee you we did operations inside China with their cooperations. And they both. We both shared the intelligence. It was a joint intelligence gathering operation.

[A]

Does it have anything to do with the subject matter we're discussing today?

[B]

No, absolutely not.

[A]

No.

[B]

What I know of it has nothing to do with, with it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

My knowledge of what it was about is nothing to do with it.

[A]

Yeah. I would imagine that there would be some sort of cooperation between all these nation states and you know, especially just going back in the history and knowing about how we work together, you know, with the nuclear programs and all that stuff. You know, we, we all have a stake in this planet not wanting to create some sort of a global catastrophe and wipe ourselves off the planet. So, so there has to be some coordination. And with the fact that the UFOs are, are, are so connected to this nuclear stuff, even more than most people

[B]

understand, because they don't understand. The initial secret happening happened when Manhattan Project scientists were involved in construction of whatever went on under Truman and Eisenhower and the National Security act stood up the Department of Energy and the Atomic Secrets act, the Atomic Energy act, and inside the Atomic Energy act they created the data classification as restricted data. Okay? Restricted data is classified from birth. If you find it, you classify it. Everything that ever came before it that was involved with it is classified. That's number one. Number two, there are any energy secrets even just peripherally related or automatically restricted data until such time as the Department of Energy and the Department of War secretaries and the people that they work with controlling this say it's unclassified. The way it is written and put into place by Dwight Eisenhower Presidential Emergency Action Directive is only they can declassify. It prevents the President from declassifying. And so I feel that it's a violation of the Constitution that the President is the chief executive and the final classification authority, and they are doing extracurricular activity outside of the President's control without his ability to have anything to say about it. So I think this is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court.

[A]

Well, the President, if you're these career insiders, deep state people, you're there for life. The President's only there for years.

[B]

That's how they describe this is a temporary occupant. We're here forever. So the people that control these secret programs, they Never rise above GS15. So if you want to find them, you got to look at all the GS15 billets. Because above that, if you become a senior, that's the equivalent to admiral or General, you're immediately no longer a civil servant. You are a political appointee and can be fired for cause. And so they don't, they just don't let them control these secrets. So it's GS15. People that are Controlling these secrets all over the government. They are the reverse engineering and secret keepers in government. And they are there, they stay there for life and they run it for life.

[A]

Yeah. And then there's like this super high level. I think the guy was a general. One of these scientists that just recently went missing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Literally right after Trump made the statement that he was going to release these files. There was like, I forget how many scientists there were. A lot of them weren't really connected, but a couple of them were really crazy. McCaslin was McCaslin. That was the story.

[B]

So here's a thing that I am aware of, but I do not claim it's what happened to him, but I am aware of the following. Anyone who has that many special access programs, especially what's called waived unacknowledged special access programs or unacknowledged special access programs where only a handful of people know anything in them, the President does not need to be told. Only a handful of two or three people in Congress out of the gang of eight can be told. And that's enough. Okay. You sign a non disclosure agreement that you literally cannot believe because I have done it. I have signed these non disclosure agreements on WOOSAP programs. They contain. If you do not follow these rules, you hereby waive every constitutional right you have. And in the end we are allowed to take any sanction we wish, any

[A]

sanction, delete you off the face of the earth.

[B]

Gone. Including this case. I believe that he had a specific thing that was going on with all these secrets in his head. He began showing signs of dementia. And so he would be one that would be picked up and taken away and taken care of in a private secret facility. That is my belief. Knowing what I know and the way he disappeared. No, no camera. Got it.

[A]

He brought.

[B]

Left all the stuff.

[A]

He brought a gun with him.

[B]

Yeah. It's just.

[A]

How does this guy not have a ring doorbell?

[B]

I don't know the answer. Because he may have been prevented from having a ring doorbell by agreements. When you get into this level, you give up a lot to have access to the secrets, you give up a lot and you do not want to run afoul of this when you have one of these NDA. My guess is when he and his wife figured out he was going downhill and I know people who knew he was going downhill. I know people that knew he was going downhill cognitively. So that's why I believe a clause that was in these NDAs was invoked to keep him safe and away from people. So he Couldn't tell secrets when he lost control of his faculties. That's what I believe. Without evidence, but it's consistent with what happened. I mean, there's zero evidence.

[A]

Do you think he went willingly?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. His wife claims it was clear he prepared to go. And she said in the 911 call that they had been going to places, doctors. And he didn't like the fact that he was. His faculties were declining.

[A]

Now, do you think, obviously this is like pure speculation.

[B]

Pure speculation on the part.

[A]

Do you think. Think if this were to happen to him and he did go willingly, do you think he's. His wife knows about it and do you think he's ever gonna see his wife again? Or is he. Is he. Is he literally willing to walk away from his entire life?

[B]

I believe in order to protect her, he walked away from his life. Jesus Christ. She cannot possibly know the details or she would be in trouble if she leaked it.

[A]

She actually said that he didn't know anything. Like, like. Well, first of all, he would never tell you.

[B]

So let me explain to you at that level, the insiders assume that you have, to some level, informed your spouse.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

They assume it. And so whoever this is, they gotta behave.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Gotta behave.

[A]

Right, right, right, right.

[B]

And she may have even been read into enough to realize she had to keep her mouth shut shut. I guarantee you, she was a. They were a unit. You don't get that level and not be a unit with your spouse. And she understood some stuff, knew what she was allowed to say, and he probably would have worked it out with her a long time ago. If I go missing for whatever reason. Here's all you're allowed to say. I do not feel. I do not feel that her entire demeanor and the 911 call is. Is consistent with. My husband is in trouble. He's gone. That was not how she did it. Come help me.

[A]

No, I don't think I ever even heard that.

[B]

You need to hear it, because it is. The demeanor is just off. She was matter of fact, like a rehearsed speech.

[A]

And that's. That's so interesting too, because, you know, the one of the other women who went missing, who I think she was, she wasn't like a scientist or anything.

[B]

She's a metallurgical engineer, I believe. And she disappeared in a hype in the woods.

[A]

Who is the lady that was one of them. Who was the lady that literally went and had lunch with her daughter and then she took her, like, her hair straightener and like, packed a bunch of stuff. With her. And then they saw her walking down the street and she left her phone factory reset at home. Like this woman, she was going prepared to go somewhere. You know, that's just so strange.

[B]

So look, as you can imagine, the US government has a cadre of people that they wipe their background, change their Persona, maybe change their looks, maybe do whatever it took so they can do a job that needs doing, and they walk away from their life and no one ever hears from them again.

[A]

Yeah, what is this? Oh, this is the call.

[B]

Yeah, you should play this.

[A]

Let's hear it.

[C]

How may I help you? Hi, April. My name is Susan Wilkerson. My husband is missing. Okay. And it's been about three hours. And I have some indication that he must have planned not to be found. He's left his phone, he changed his clothes and I don't know what. I think he's on foot. All of our cars and bicycles are in the garage. I left for a doctor's appointment at about 11:10. And he was here at that time at the house. And I got back from that at noon and he was gone. He turned it off and left it behind, which seems kind of deliberate because he's always got his phone. He has a smartwatch. I don't know if that's with him or not. Has he ever done this before? Never. Nothing even remotely like it. He's a retired Air Force major general. He's very responsible, but he's also facing some medical issues. Do you have any video at your home? No. Has he been diagnosed with any mental disorders or anything like that? Well, we've been seeing a doc for both physical and mental in terms of anxiety, short term memory loss, lack of sleep. The same doc I went to see today. Does he carry any weapons on him? Well, not generally. I. He does have a gun safe and I went to look in the gun safe to see if anything was missing, but I couldn't tell if anything was. There's. He has quite a number of pistols and rifles. Other than saying if his brain body keep deteriorating, he didn't want to live like that, but it seemed to me that was just a man. I hate how this is going kind of thing because I told him. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Okay, we're gonna send some deputies up

[B]

to talk to you. Does that sound like a demeanor of a wife who suddenly lost her husband and knows he's in all of this? It just does not sound right. It sounds contrived.

[A]

Very calm.

[B]

Very calm. There was no change in her tone, no tension in her voice. It just doesn't work for me and I don't have any evidence. But I'm telling you, I don't like what I hear.

[A]

Right. Well, what you, what you described certainly does make a lot of sense. It's just strange that it all times up with the Trump disclosure files and all that stuff, you know?

[B]

No, no, no. That I just don't think is a coincidence. And it's also consistent with my view of things and. Cause the insiders that don't like him knew he was involved in disclosure on the side of pro disclosure because he was the Advisor to Tom DeLong when to the Stars Academy was born. We know that because Tom DeLong wrote insiders in the Clinton team, et cetera, including John Podesta. And that was gobbled up by WikiLeaks and displayed everywhere. No one knew who McCaslin was until WikiLeaks leaked it.

[A]

Right? Yeah. It's such a crazy story, man. Hold that thought. I gotta take a leak real quick.

[B]

Yep, it driv me freaking crazy.

[A]

Who's driving you crazy?

[B]

My fiance, her niece.

[A]

Really?

[B]

My children.

[A]

About what?

[B]

Driving crazy about, oh, you're home with him. And I'm like, yeah, well, give us a shout out. Every one of them. I mean, it's like, it's not many, but it's enough that if I don't do it, I'm in the crapper.

[A]

Do it, man. Of course.

[B]

I just didn't want to do it if you didn't like it.

[A]

You want to do it right now?

[B]

Yeah, I'm happy to do it.

[A]

Do it. Shout them out.

[B]

Hey, glad to be here with Danny. We're having a good time. And I want to mention Patricia, who I'm engaged to Amanda, who is her niece, and Anthony, who is her niece's husband. And my brothers, Michael, Brian, James and Hugh, and my children, John, Patrick and Megan. They've loved me and I'm very happy be. They're in my life.

[A]

Shout out. All right, back to where we were before. What were we just talking about before we went to the bathroom?

[B]

McCaslin.

[A]

McCaslin. Yes, the missing scientist stuff. Stuff's insane. So on the topic of, like, we have all this, like, sensor data and video, like, like grainy, weird video footage of stuff happening. And like, we have the, the, the stuff on the, on the radars of those jet planes that the fighter plants were. Fighter pilots were flying. If it is true that some of that stuff is ours, that means that we've figured out a new physics, a new. Some new type of physics?

[B]

Yes. If it's ours, we have new physics and are being lied to.

[A]

And one of the things that's crazy, which Jesse always talks about, is that like people have been working on anti gravity since the 50s, like Bryce DeWitt and Lewis Whitt. And there was this big anti gravity conference that was going on in North Carolina. And all of a sudden all that stuff went like black. And a lot of people speculate that it all got captured and went underground.

[B]

So when I lived in Princeton at the IDA for the weirdest set of synchronicities you can imagine, which I won't bore you with, I met and befriended John Archibald Wheeler. John Wheeler is the most famous gravitation physicist after Einstein in the 20th century. I became a regular visitor, a companion. And all of these people that are involved in all that stuff went to that conference because John Wheeler invited them, including Richard Feynman, who was his student. Kip Thorne, who got the LIGO Nobel Prize for the gravitational vibrations in space. He was Wheeler student. Wheeler is responsible for more Nobel laureates than any professor I know of in the United States. And he and I were friends and I got. I learned as much about gravity and this stuff as anybody. And he started that conference with these two industrialists funding it because nobody else cared because they thought gravitation was dead and everything was quantum mechanics. But he did not give up on it. He restarted serious gravitational research in the 1950s.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

He was a brilliant man.

[A]

He's the it from bit guy, right?

[B]

It from bit. He, you cannot believe how he listening to him talk. Discuss with me the quantum erasure experiment, which is you observe stuff going through a system and after it's gone through this system, you observe them later. But when it went through this system, it collapsed the wave function in the past. An observation here collapsed the wave function in the past. So if you observe a quantum system, the wave function from all these weird possibilities can be collapses into something real. He dreamed this experiment up and he believed that all the universe was made up of information and information. Since Claude Shannon. Information theory is described as bits. And he thought it whatever's real comes from a bit, which is information. So he believed information and consciousness was fundamental to the universe.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He was a brilliant man.

[A]

I've had this theory proposed to me by a previous guest named Jason Giorgiani.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Familiar with him?

[B]

I am he.

[A]

He has this crazy theory that dark matter could be compute a computational cloud. And he bases that off of the information on a hard drive. So he's like the hard Drive stores energy. But he's like, we can't detect any mass. It's electromagnetically invisible. And he's like, like. But he does, he did say that if you could. Somebody, somebody postulated that if, if we had the instruments that were precise enough to weigh the mass of, like, all of the data stored on every hard drive in the world right now, he says it would weigh like a kilogram. But it's growing exponentially every year. And it's, it's, it's increasing. It's not growing at the same rate. Like, especially as AI develops and we reach the technological singularity, the mass of all the, and all the data centers that are being built, it's going to be a lot of mass. So, long story short, he thinks that information, data that is stored on a hard drive does have mass.

[B]

So, and you know that from E equals MC squared squared, it's energy to store it, which is M, which is mass C squared. You know, from Einstein's famous equation, that energy and mass are interchangeable. So you put the energy into the distance.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That's the mass.

[A]

Right, Right, exactly. So he basically connected that theory to. I'm a little rusty on this right now because it's very complex, but he basically connected that to, like, dark matter. And he says, like, when we weighed. We weigh the spin of galaxies, right?

[B]

There's one too fast.

[A]

It spun too fast. Right. So he's. So they thought that the inner.

[B]

The.

[A]

So, so the inner part of it spun at the same rate as the outer part of it, which he thinks that there's. Now there's. They think there's mass flattening the curve. Right. So if that's true, that means dark matter has mass to it. So he's like, wow, so maybe the stuff that's in the hard drive is this dark matter. Maybe. So maybe this is all like a computational cloud.

[B]

That's what I, I have a different opinion that's based on James Webb Space Telescope observations is we literally have had theories with no way to test them. And James Webb Space Telescope, in my opinion, is destroying those theories. So I believe the ultimate outcome of all these instruments that we're putting in space, this is my belief. I don't yet have data, but my belief from the trajectory is that we're going to find dark matter and dark energy do not exist and are not needed.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why do you think this?

[B]

Because of the observations we see at the. Near the edge of the universe, observable universe and galaxies and other things that existed way too early and so just, it's not consistent, I believe, with the existence of these things. And everything we can see details in are too close to us to reveal the stuff that's around. Dark energy. Dark energy is based on guesses of the redshift and other things getting faster as it went into the past. I just think we've got a wrong idea based on poor data that we've accepted as if it was proven fact. Theories are not proven fact theories of your current explanation of the fact and then when the theory has a fact it can't explain the theory is false and you need another one. Okay, so I just don't, I don't think it's right. I don't think we are ready to conclude anything. But my conclusion is we're going to see dark energy and dark matter disappear from science. That's my opinion and I'm looking for ways to prove it. And we know we've got stuff wrong because the stuff way out, what we thought would look like this would actually look like a full galaxy. Stuff like that is just, it's really difficult to bring together. So the James Webb telescope is worth every bit of the $10 billion. But it's going to change every ounce of science that we know. It's worth it.

[A]

That's wild. Yeah, I saw something recently about the James Webb telescope and something about that redshift where they were basically hypothesiz that that something happened way earlier. Maybe it was the Big Bang or something happened way earlier than we thought and other galaxies were like way older than we thought. So I think this was in a scientific paper that I read.

[B]

I think Penrose was right, that we see throughout our galaxy parts of and the echoes of previous universes. So that's the Penrose revolving door thing of something of the old one becomes into the new one. That's one. The other thing I think we see, and we're not ready to prove it yet is the assumptions that went into these theories of the universe and all this expansion and other stuff assume that now, you know, are uniformly distributed throughout the universe. That is not how matter and energy are assembled. There are these fibrous networks that look like capillaries in a circulatory system. And almost all the matter and energy of the universe are in these gigantic threads that are woven together. And so we clearly do not understand all there is to understand about gravity and how things were assembled. Because, because we would not observe these little grid like networks that are running around, look like a nervous system or a communication system. Or a graph of some type. It's just inconsistent with what I think we thought all along. And the thing that's so strange about this is the speed of light in these places where there is nothing is almost C. Almost C, like Einstein did, but inside almost.

[A]

What does that mean, almost C?

[B]

It's almost the speed of light. In terms of the electromagnetic theory, the speed of light has a certain number. It's determined by electromagnetism. But in where you have these large density, larger densities of matter and energy, the speed of light slows down. We just don't have some stuff. Right, Danny? But we're seeing evidence we don't have it. Right. And somebody's going to figure it out.

[A]

What were you saying? Looks like a grid of, like, things connected, like strings.

[B]

All matter and energy in the universe that we can see visibly is arranged in things that look like nervous systems or circulatory systems. The long thin threads that are just tied together all over the place. And in between them, outside of the threads, there's nothing.

[A]

Yeah. Isn't that interesting?

[B]

Very interesting.

[A]

How it's like galaxies. They look like the very smallest parts of nature on Earth. Earth, Right. It looks like it's like, got this symmetry.

[B]

Yeah, like fractal.

[A]

Like fractal symmetry. Right.

[B]

It's like fractal. Yeah, yeah. They have. Look, the geometric symmetries.

[A]

What is that? What is that the term? The Fibonacci sequence. Yeah.

[B]

Really, really interesting. All of this is interesting. And people like me just sit around and daydream about stuff like this and that. From that comes ideas. You test the ideas. If they're right, great. Go publish a paper. If they aren't right, you go, hmm, I gotta go back to the draft drawing board.

[A]

Yeah. It's just. It's so crazy that, like, if you zoom out and you look at the shapes of these galaxies, like, it can literally translate all the way down to, like, DNA, Right?

[B]

Yeah, that's it.

[A]

Our universe is a massive. Yeah, it looks like.

[B]

It looks like the inside of a neural network in the brain.

[A]

Isn't that insane?

[B]

And so do you. Cannot believe how large those little individual bright dots are in that network. They're huge. They're like clusters of galaxies.

[A]

Wow, man.

[B]

I want you to figure out how big 100 P125 megaparsecs are. 125 megaparsecs? Is that mega?

[A]

That's what it stands for. Mega parsecs.

[B]

Mega parsecs. Go figure out how big a mega parsec is.

[A]

How many miles is that, oh my

[B]

God, it's just so many. I can't even figure out how many zero there are. It's huge.

[A]

How do we, how do we come up with this?

[B]

We have telescopes that sit there and do nothing but map stuff on automation and we look at where the distribution of matter and energy is and we realize we had it wrong. It's not uniform, it's in these grids. Yeah, that's it. That's what it looks like.

[A]

So hard to comprehend.

[B]

We had it wrong. We don't know why it was wrong, but we're going to figure out because we are in, we're, we're infinitely inquisitive. We may not be right, but we are inquisitive. Whatever went on in our eight brain ancestors turned into this massive inquisitive nature. We're never going to stop till we figure out what that is.

[A]

As we get older, life insurance becomes one of those things we need to stop avoiding. Nobody wants to sit around imagining worst case scenarios. But if your family depends on you, this is one of the things that you should be making a priority. I always thought this would be an expensive, overcomplicated process that would also involve a bunch of appointments. But that's where Ethos comes in and makes the whole process super easy. Ethos helps you get life insurance fast and easy and it's 100% online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes and potentially get same day coverage. There's no medical exam, all you do is answer a few simple health questions. Online you can get up to $3 million in coverage and some policies are as low as $30 a month. Ethos helps provide financial security by connecting you with coverage throughout their network and trusted carriers. And, and they have 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 4,000 reviews. This is one of those things that only takes minutes now, but will make a massive difference down the road. Take 10 minutes to get coverage today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote with ethos.com Danny. That's E-T-H O S.com Danny. Application times and rates may vary. Yeah, I just wonder, I just wonder what the people do know. You know what the people like in those deep research laboratories and some of these companies do actually some of them

[B]

claim that have come out and blabbed that we know how to travel amongst those things and that the way the non human intelligence do it, we don't yet know how to do it because they have built materials that sit around them inside These craft and they think whether they want to go with their mind and boom, they're there. That we clearly don't know how to do. One of the secrets that I believe the government is scared of really getting out is the capabilities of human intelligence are way beyond what they want to know. Like, we are able to manipulate reality, we are able to manipulate materials in reality. We are able to talk to each other without any obviously, interconnecting means. And so I would encourage your listeners and viewers to go study the hundred or so papers that are peer reviewed written by Dr. Dean Raton. And Dean is kind of one of the pioneers of we don't have all this. Right. We don't know all this stuff. But here's what we do know. And it's inconsistent with what we thought was we knew. And it's like I can manipulate quantum machines doing measurements. I can, I can manipulate with my mind the output of a random number generator. And it's totally isolated.

[A]

He bent a spoon.

[B]

Yeah. And, and, and the stuff that Russell Targ and Hal Puthoff did out of Stanford, research on remote viewing. Okay. So. So I'm taking classes from Angela Ford with a friend of hers. And Angela Ford was in Stargate way back when and was a remote viewer for the government. And I have seen in myself the ability to do remote viewing. The last class, they had a target, and the target was in a folder. The person who picked the folder did not know what was inside the envelope. There was a number on it. They had no idea what the number meant. Okay. So they had to target. And our job in the group was to sit there and allow our reasoning mind to go quiet and our intuitive mind to open up and just see. So I saw flashes. And these flashes I saw were yellow and red, something that looked like a pyramid and then other weird things around it. And it felt like I was in a jungle that was very wet and warm. So I wrote all that down. And they pulled the picture out of an envelope. It was a pyramidal like structure in Indonesia in the middle of a jungle. And they had red and yellow flags all over the place. Red.

[A]

Yellow what?

[B]

Red and yellow flags all over the place. And it was in the jungle. I had gotten it exactly right.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I just go, you just. What can you do with that? You know that we don't know how the mind works. We don't know how information gets transferred. But what this says to me is an inanimate object and I can communicate with each other by some means. The government has got to be Scared to death that people that can do this kind of stuff will prevent them from ever having a secret. And that is going to scare them. It will frighten them if people can

[A]

actually learn how to do this stuff.

[B]

And, and if we learn all of us can do it and everyone starts doing it, their lives are done. They cannot lie to us anymore. Hey, I don't believe that. Just let me close my eyes and think about it and then I know the answer. They're lying, right?

[A]

I tend to think when it comes to some of these abilities and some of the things that we're seeing, I tend to be of the opinion that whatever this phenomena is, is. It could be, or it's most likely us from a different time frame. There's that maybe from the past, maybe from the future, maybe just from right now, but like, maybe it was like from some really, really old version, some old civilization that got wiped out and they maybe moved underwater or something like that. But it certainly seems like it feels like they evolved here, right?

[B]

Look, these humanoids, they cannot be random evolution on random planets. You don't get two arms, two legs, two eyes, a nose and a mouth and ears and have different things make you from all sorts of different environments. And we all look alike in form. No, it's insane. It's just totally nuts to even think about such an improbable thing happening, happening. So I'm a science advisor to Dr. Julia Mossbridge and she's written some articles recently that people should read in Popular Mechanics and elsewhere about what we don't know about time and information is really, really different from what people actually believe about time and information. And she has started a company called American Electrodynamics. She's thinking about these problems in a very, very specific way of actually implementing technology over time that can show all the stuff of time is just a thing and we can communicate effectively across time and do things. And if the company does well, it is going to change a lot of stuff. But she's written articles that hint at what she's thinking about. As an insider, I can't say what I know know, but I know that people can go read these things. And guess what Julia, her team is doing. It's really, really interesting and I'm very proud to be involved where. She is a really brilliant woman. You should interview her.

[A]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of her lately. She's, she's, she seems certainly very interesting, but like, it seems like, you know, the, the, the whole psychological sort of parapsychological element of this Stuff is very intertwined. They're very intertwined with each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like. Because you hear stories of, like, this psionic stuff or people being able to, like, summon these things and like, the crazy, you know, the legendary stories of, like, Michael Herrera and stuff taking people out.

[B]

You know, I was part of Sky Watcher.

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I was a scientific advisor. And Michael, what is Sky Watcher? That was this group that was going out with the desert with the psionics people and Jake Barker and all these other things to try to figure out what craft were and see if they could interact.

[A]

Did you do that?

[B]

I was a scientist in the background.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Now I'm not so much in the background because the psionics people are getting out and doing things, and I'm doing things to help them. And I think you're going to see some evidence we're gathering that is literally going to startle a lot of people. Michael Batista, I know for a fact, can call down things that you're not going to believe. And so we're about to demonstrate it in a big way where all denial will fall away.

[A]

So Stephen Greer was right.

[B]

The whole time, he was right. Except. Except something has gone wrong. I don't know what it is. I don't understand. He is responsible for introducing CE5 and all these things to all of us. And then there was action taken against him and his team in which everyone around him, including himself, got a rare form of cancer. And all of them died. And he almost died. And since then, he has not been the same. It's really, really troubling to see somebody that's so important, so impactful suffer such a horrible loss, believe it was done by insiders in the government. And that turned into a complete obsession. He might be right. It doesn't feel right to me. I know that's not the same man that did these thousands of hours of interviews with the help of Danny Sheehan, the lawyer.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Telling him how they can do this, inform the government that if they bother them, they're going to take. They're going to have retribution against them by blowing the door on everything. And so far, he's been not bothered about any of those videotapes that I'm aware of, disclosure project of his where he has all these videos. It's thousands of hours of insiders giving testimony that is worth every moment of Steven Greer's life. But I just am having trouble with some of these stars and other people taken into the desert and shown things that are very, very, very suspect. I just I'm having trouble with, like.

[A]

Well, I don't know what you're talking about.

[B]

Demi Lovato got taken into the desert and shown things that I went. I don't know. I just.

[A]

By who?

[B]

By Greer.

[A]

Oh, by Greer.

[B]

Yeah, by Greer.

[A]

Oh, I do remember this. I remember him saying this.

[B]

I just don't. I. I'm. I'm not getting it and I just don't believe it that. But look, this is me, me giving you an opinion.

[A]

Right, right, right, right. When did he get cancer?

[B]

It was years ago, before, like, most of the public knew him.

[A]

Yeah. He said he also got hit by a car riding his bike or something.

[B]

He did. He did.

[A]

Almost died.

[B]

Yeah, there's that. But look, all sorts of stuff that happened to him. And I believe he's really paranoid that the government is after him. And when you live under this much stress and stuff, things happen and change in you. And I'm worried that this guy who's done so much for this disclosure is having problems dealing with all of that.

[A]

Bad. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's certainly like one of the. One of the guys that's like, easiest to dismiss because he seems like the wackiest. But like, on. On the.

[B]

I don't dismiss everything about him because I can't. I know stuff is done is objective, objectively real.

[A]

He's just a jack. Like his. Something about his Persona or his personality makes him difficult to digest. But, you know, he's been doing it for so damn long.

[B]

I think it's most. The thing that troubles me most is, is him running out and saying all the people at the top of government, presidents, generals, et cetera, that he has briefed on this program. I'm having a hard time with that.

[A]

Right. Yeah. His story was that he was an ER doctor, and then he was asked to brief the head of the CIA on UFOs. Like, that's kind of crazy.

[B]

It's just a little too much for me. A little too much for me. He might be telling the truth, but I just don't.

[A]

And the other stuff. Story was that I forget the general, some general offered him like a billion dollars or some crazy amount of money and he's. He just turned it away.

[B]

If he would shut up and toe the line.

[A]

Yeah, if you would shut up and toe the line.

[B]

Correct. Yet he charges thousands of dollars to take people out on the beach and show them things.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's just not consistent and I don't know anything except histologically inconsistent, you know,

[A]

and that's the thing about this whole subject is it's just so difficult because in today's day and age with social media it's just, it doesn't matter if the truth is out there or not because it's just, it gets buried in a sea of.

[B]

Yeah, the is deep. So you know, I'm Science Bob on Twitter and X and I, I'm constantly disgusted. I mean there, there are people who, there who really need help. They really, really need help. And people I like, sometimes they try to do stuff and then they get absolutely attacked and destroyed because the people who really need help just can't see anybody get ahead without attacking them. It's ugly. UFO on X. UAP on X is ugly. UFO Twitter is ugly. It's so ugly.

[A]

Yeah, I, I stay away from it. I, I don't, I don't get too involved in it. Sometimes I get involved and watch it from a distance. But yeah, don't.

[B]

Yeah, you can't, not with this show. You just cannot do it. Don't, don't get involved. Watch it and laugh.

[A]

I like some of those guys. I really like Sam the Tubacabra dude. He's great.

[B]

He's got great talent. His ability to do two videos and that stuff. He's smart, smart, very smart. He put together a website that has these timelines.

[A]

Yes, the UFO timeline.

[B]

He is really smart, clever guy.

[A]

Yeah. He connected every single UFO sighting or experience or abduction or whatever. Put it like on a, on a, on an actual timeline and a geographical map of where it happened and like the description of it. It's incredible.

[B]

It's very well done. And he did that by himself in his home with almost no help. He's got, he's got capabilities. The other one has interesting capabilities is Red Panda Kawai. He's an interesting character but he does videos and all this other memes and other things. He's one. The two of them are kind of entertaining in the X community. They have gripes and they can get grumpy. So when they're griping and grumpy I don't participate. When they're doing their thing that I find interesting, I participate. So I'm selective. I don't want to get involved in any mess cause that's not my job. My job is to. My self appointed job is to inform people how the structures of government will interact in order to influence and control the release of information that all of us want in disclosure. And I provide help and context.

[A]

Yeah, my thing is like I don't really have much hope for like any real Disclosure, because I don't think any of the people that we think of as government, Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth, any of the Congress people, I feel like they're on this superficial media layer of the government. Like, they don't really control Jack. They're just here to be like, to keep us entertained, for lack of a better word. The people that really are running shit are a layer above them. Right. That are completely hidden by the shadows

[B]

or below them, working for the people above them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So bureaucracy is a thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They are there forever. They're protected civil servants. And whatever comes down from Congress or the President goes into them to be turned laws turned into regulations. They treat them as suggestions.

[A]

Yes, yes, 100%. So when you want to talk about releasing anything, whether it be like the Epstein files or the UFO files or JFK files or what have you. Yeah, you can get done when you're a member of Congress and you're really making a lot of noise and you're getting a lot of support from the public and on social media and sort of like getting a movement started to where they have to sort of do something to pacify you and give you something, throw you a bone. But, you know, the people who are actually releasing those documents and have access to them, they don't even have access to a lot of stuff.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So at the end of the day, you know, it's just kind of like it's some version of bread and circus.

[B]

If you want to understand how the UFO program is put together, that pencil is a collection of information. It doesn't talk to the pencil next door to it or to the one over here or one over here. Something is above all these pencils collecting the information where these people don't know how the reactor on board a craft work. These people don't know how the motivator on the craft works. Stove piped like you wouldn't believe. Everybody in it can't talk to anybody out of it. The only place the information can be looked at and worked on is inside a secure facility that's cleared for that stovepipe.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Totally trapped and sequestered. It is going to be hard. And now we know that lots of information was moved into private corporations from which there is no oversight. They're private. The other thing people don't realize is that federally funded research and development centers that everybody thinks is another government entity is a private corporation. They work for the federal government. The control on them is the dollars. But never mind. They're independent federally funded research and development centers like MITRE and RAND and those people, Sandia National Labs, Oak Ridge National Labs are run by corporations. But. And they operate on behalf of say the Department of Energy, the Department of War, et cetera. But they are independent corporate entities.

[A]

Well, how crazy is this that the former CIA head of Science and Technology now works for the Mitre Corporation?

[B]

It's not. It's not so. Look at my. I'm careful as you can tell. So. So the number two guy at MITRE is Dr. Charles Clancy. Charles Clancy, yeah. He and I started Hawkeye 360 Federated Wireless and the Hume center for National Security and Technology at Virginia Tech. We're extremely close friends and I have often been tempted to ask him questions. I respect him too much to bother him with questions because he's got to be sitting atop a pyramid mid full of secrets at miter. So he and I get together for dinner every now and again and I don't ask him a single question because I don't want to mess mess up his gig because he's going to be the head of MITRE soon.

[A]

Yeah. How much can you even know a Miter? Like how I wonder how stove piped it is there?

[B]

No, no, there's. Look, there's definitely stove pipes. I do not believe that Charles, friend as he is, knows everything.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It just, that's just impossible. Possible.

[A]

I had James Fox on here a couple months ago and he was telling me that he was asking somebody, he was somewhere at some sort of like a cocktail party and he was asking some general or so I forget who he said he was talking to. Anyways, he asked the guy, he's like, how many people have like the full picture of everything? And he was saying like less than 10 people.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Have like the full way, way, way high level view of everything.

[B]

So there are a handful of people inside of government that have knowledge of everything and access to everything. They are called super users. So a super user is a person that's cleared but can have access without first having need to know. They are so trusted they're allowed to look at whatever they want to and go off and make suggestions or do things. Things. They're super users. They're very, very rare.

[A]

How do you know about these super users?

[B]

I know two of them.

[A]

You know two of them? How do you know two of them?

[B]

One of them might have been involved with a company I started. Not Charles Clancy really. That and I sat next to church in Princeton next to Freeman Dyson and he knew a lot.

[A]

So these alleged super users who have this panoramic view of everything. Who's above them?

[B]

That is a very good question. I don't know the answer.

[A]

Maybe it's the aliens.

[B]

I don't know who it is. But I'm telling you, these super you. And they are deeply careful about what they reveal, what they know and what they. Look at that. But I know some super users.

[A]

You've had conversations with these super users?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I know them personally.

[A]

But you don't ask them questions?

[B]

I never ask them questions. I do not want to be inadvertently drug into something that utterly changes my life.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I know what I'm good for. I know what I want to do. And I don't want this to mess it up.

[A]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[B]

My new fiance would probably be very upset with me if I got yanked out of the picture and gone. Sorry. Patricia.

[A]

What is your whole take on the Bob Lazar story then?

[B]

I do not know, but you gotta have a take. I gotta take. Here's my take. I cannot understand how he could not have been inside and gone out to the desert and told him where they could look and when they could look and see the flying saucers fly. He had to have inside knowledge.

[A]

Right.

[B]

In order to predict that perfectly. He had 50 video sessions, he was inside or had a leak that would have sent somebody to prison. He had to have come from inside. All the other stuff that his MIT degree or whatever that stuff is just. It's just. I don't care. This is big deal. That's number one. Number two, George Knapp didn't believe all the lies about Los Alamos, so he went to Los Alamos and found a phone book inside where Bob claimed he worked. And Bob Lazar was in the inside photograph inside Los Alamos National Lab.

[A]

Right. And also, we know, like, MIT's been involved with some sinister shit with the government.

[B]

Vannevar Bush was an MIT scientist. He ran all the secrets for Truman and Wright, Eisenhower. And guess who his number one, number two guy was. John Trump, Donald's uncle. Guess who has all of the Tesla papers? John Trump, Donald's uncle, who also worked

[A]

with Townsend Brown, I think.

[B]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm telling you, this layer of interconnections way up at the top, but a handful of people, it's wild.

[A]

And what about this Tim Taylor dude, you know? He was connected. I learned about.

[B]

I met him. I've met him.

[A]

You met him in person?

[B]

Yeah, met him in person.

[A]

How the hell did you set that up?

[B]

I didn't. You came to these SCU meeting In Huntsville. And I interacted with him.

[A]

What's the SCU meeting?

[B]

That's the Society for the Study of uap. Scientific Coalition for the Study of uap. Scu. And it's run by a bunch of folks. I'm a member. I'm giving a talk at their meeting in Toronto in July. And doing a paper for them will get me from associate member up to full membership. You gotta do one of these projects to get to be full membership. And mine is on sensors and their proper use to find UAP and USOs and the way to hold and manage the data. In a way, it's useful for scientific work. I put a whole system together and I'm doing something unusual. I'm sure I'm making people upset. I'm giving it all away. All the code, the designs, everything. I'm just giving it away. All I want is secrets and data. Giving it away. You can go look at my stuff on GitHub. All the pieces are there.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

And give a paper at SCU and it'll have every detail design in it.

[A]

So when you. When you went there and you in Huntsville. I think he lives in Huntsville or he. He's around. He's in Alabama. He lives in Alabama?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Except that's where the real NASA is.

[B]

Except he's the NASA space coordinator for SpaceX.

[A]

He's a NASA space coordinator.

[B]

He is a NASA space coordinator for SpaceX launches. Almost surely all the national security launches.

[A]

What does that mean? What does he do?

[B]

He coordinates for the government space activities for launch and other things off classified payloads, mostly from Vanderbilt, Vandenberg Air Force Base.

[A]

Right in California.

[B]

Yeah, but Tim Taylor, he is definitely involved.

[A]

So when you met him, was there like a line of people lined up to get his autograph? What was it like?

[B]

It was like they didn't know who he was. And he was in this beautiful. A very expensive suit, leaned up against the wall and on occasion, talk to him. We would say a few things like, I know Chris Bledsoe and I know this, that and the other. He says, well, when you see Chris, tell him hello. And then I was sitting at a table and right next to me was David Grush.

[A]

What?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Sat right next to me and I know who he is. I know where he came from because they tried to recruit me to help them and because of Hawkeye360 at that moment, I was not in a position to help. So I had never got involved. But David Grush was there with a guy who is from the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. And now part of your mic a little bit more. Sorry. But now involved with Space Command. And they wanted me to help them. I am certain that we did not have classified conversations, that they wanted me to have Hawkeye360 satellites help them locate things like UAP on around the Earth. And we never got there because I pushed them away. I was too busy doing other things and I didn't want to get involved. Do I wish I had. I've had moments. I've had moments because I'm. My curiosity is, of course, way out there and I want disclosure.

[A]

You know, one of the crazy things that Diana Pasoa talks about when she. Because she spent a lot of time with that guy Tim and with Jacques Filet and going to like, the Vatican

[B]

archives and Gary Nolan.

[A]

Gary Nolan, yeah. One of the things that really stuck out to me about what she said was that when she went to Jacques Vallee's apartment in California, Northern California, they. She like hit this library full of, like, books about angels and demons and stuff like that.

[B]

And all of his Rosha Crucian texts.

[A]

Yeah. And all the Rosh Crucian stuff. Wild. And he asked her, Jacques Vallee asked Diana. He's like, what did we learn about Tim? Or something like that. And then he handed her this book about Satan that was 666 pages. And he's like, if we need to understand this, we need to read this. We need to understand this book about the history of Satan.

[B]

The other thing is, what do you think of that? I think there's multiple layers to this. The one thing that found most strange to me, and I think she got in a ton of trouble for saying it in her book. When she got to the Vatican, got ready to go into the archives, assuming because of her past, that she would have to get Tim on the inside. Oh, no. When she got there, he had been on the inside, roaming around on his own with no escort for hours.

[A]

He hadn't.

[B]

Yeah, that's in her book American Cosmic.

[A]

And that was naughty of her to do.

[B]

Very. No, no, she didn't have anything to do with it. Somebody else let him in.

[A]

Right. But it was. They didn't like the fact that she published that.

[B]

Oh, exactly. They did not like the fact. Yes. Declared de Boulevard. Yeah. And I know this book.

[A]

I, I'm, I'm, I'm. I'm about two chapters into it right now.

[B]

The study of the Carmel Carmelites.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. All about Satan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's fascinating.

[B]

It's fascinating.

[A]

I still don't understand. I'm not. I don't know. I'm not far enough into it yet, but I still don't get the connection my.

[B]

My minister father and me. I get the chills thinking about such books.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I mostly don't read them.

[A]

It's very interesting.

[B]

I know it is. I know it is.

[A]

It talks. It's. It's. It's mainly about like the dichotomy of the belief in the personality of Satan as a figure, as a horn thing with a spiked tail and all that and as like the philosophical thing that's baked into every human being of Satan.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think I. What? I think. I think that ancient peoples needed something to blame. And when the non human intelligence came and looked weird, they made it into something evil because they were fearful. And.

[A]

Well, it is crazy. Like James Fox's Moment of Contact documentary. That thing smelled like sulfur and had. And had cloven feet. I mean, that's every. Every biblical description of a demon. Demon or the devil.

[B]

Yep. And all the people. A lot of these people on the insiders that are adamantly opposed to disclosure claim we're not doing this because we're not dealing with demons. A lot of the people are religious that are opposed to disclosure because they think it's demons.

[A]

Right. I think J.D. vance actually said that. I heard a report. I don't know where this came from, but I heard a report that said like they were seriously considering in the government saying there is no God, aliens created us. And then somehow that got basically like they canceled that plan and it never happened. They just released what they did release. But I heard that was like a legit thing that they were considering doing.

[B]

My belief is we were created by non human intelligence. That's not us. And there are periods in the evolutionary record where the jump is too large to seem natural.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And so I really do believe we were engineered. And the reason I say that is you can't have all these intelligences come from all over the place, like multiple people on the inside say, and all of them look like us without a common origin.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because evolution does not work like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. So I believe that they are seeding the universe with humanoid beings for whatever reason. Whoever is the. This entity controlling all this, and I don't know who it is. I'm just telling you what the logical inferences are and what the insiders are saying that. And I'm friends with Jason Sands and he's told me a lot of stuff that's gone on on the inside. Which is stuff he's seen being sent on missions. The job which was to kill aliens who were.

[A]

You believe that stuff?

[B]

I don't know. I only know that I like Jason. I trust him. I'm his friend. I'm a confidant to him. But I don't have enough evidence to say whether it's true or not. I know that I feel it's probably true. But a feeling is not real. It's what I believe. I don't believe he's lying to me. He is either deluded or he's telling us a story that we all need to hear. And I don't believe he's deluded. I believe he's telling us the truth. And I had a very interesting experience with Jason at UFO Con in January of 2025. We were sitting in a hallway with John. Sorry, John, sorry I can't remember your last name cause I'm a little nervous. Anyway, Ramirez, John Ramirez. Jason Sanson and I were. He's from CIA. From the CIA, okay. He went all over telling all sorts of people stuff about the insiders and. And et cetera. So John Ramirez, Jason Sandswire are sitting in the hall, just chit chatting. Jason's girlfriend was across the hall and a woman had gone outside that we knew and opened the door to escort an elderly woman to her car. And in the interim she comes in through the side door, which is locked. She had a chair propping the door open. And this weird looking woman came walking through the door, kicked the chair out, tried to close the door on her. She reached and grabbed the door right before we close. I started chasing the woman down the hall and John and I are sitting here. Jason and his girlfriend are sitting over here. And the woman is chased by two other women down the hall. She turns around and goes around the corner and I'm looking like this. So one of them moves quickly and so I can't quite see what has happened. Then she moved back and then. I'll tell you what happened then. Another woman was there. John Ramirez was to my right. He had a clear view down the hall. And I went. Did that woman that just went down the hall just disappear into thin air? John said yes, because I saw it with my own two eyes. If you love diving into culture and comedy like on Danny Jones podcast, playoff hockey is right up your alley. NHL on TNT has the best coverage, making every game feel intense and unpredictable. Playoff hockey is a different level. Overtime, big hits and no. 1 coast. The studio crew with Paul Bissonnet cracking jokes and Wayne Gretzky breaking things down makes it even more fun to watch. Every shift matters, and the personalities keep things lively. Watch the Stanley cup playoffs on TNT, TBS, TruTV and HBO. Max. And it looked to me like the woman stopped and hesitated and looked at Jason Sands before she went down the hall being chased and then disappeared right out of the hall with no place for her to be. I have no idea what that was, but I'm telling you, it gives me the willies. I bet this field is full of weird. We don't know what it is. We are grasping for explanations. We just don't know what stuff is. But, you know, I don't deny observational evidence. I may not interpret it, but I know observational evidence when I see it. Until I have enough to turn it into something useful, I just say, this is a wild story that I'm telling without any evidence to show you, but I know what I saw. I know what John Ramirez saw. I know what Jason Sands felt. That thing was weird and it just disappeared. It was dressed like a South American witch and just walked down the hall.

[A]

What the fuck?

[B]

I don't know what it was. I'm just telling you what happened, and I'm not in the.

[A]

Where exactly was this?

[B]

In San Francisco at UFO Con 2025.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Bunch of UFO experiencer nuts get together and. And compare notes and talk to each other.

[A]

Yeah. I've heard a lot of crazy happen at UFO conferences.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Lots of spooky things, like really weird. Who was telling me something crazy? Oh, it was. It was. Michael Masters told me a crazy story about something that happened to him at one of those things.

[B]

Oh. Michael Masters and I, we're good friends, and I think. I think I exposed his being an experiencer inadvertently. So he was at a conference in New York City. That's all I'll say about the conference because of the organizer who is now in deep trouble. So I don't want to advertise.

[A]

Oh, is he in the Epstein files?

[B]

No. Nope. But anyway, so Michael's giving a talk. He's described some experiences he had. And I says, michael, are you an experiencer? And he looked at me and he. I could see the look in his eyes that he did not expect that question, and he was almost not going to answer it. And then he stopped and says, yes, I am. And he started telling the story and he broke down in tears.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. It was a major emotional moment, and I really was regretting I had done it. But anyway, Michael is a good guy. I know him really well. I Missed an opportunity to go and teach a guest lecture at his UFO because of timing and other things. But he is a really good, good guy. He's. I really admire him and his extra tempestrial view of the UFO folks as being us from the future. Based on his intimate knowledge of how evolutionary biology works.

[A]

I think it makes the most sense.

[B]

It does make a lot of sense. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying I believe that his story holds water.

[A]

But there are other beings, though, that don't look humanoid too. You know, like there's like a manted beings and stuff like that, that most of them are humanoid. And in fact, most of the abduction experiencers explain them looking even more human than the little gray things. Right. Like Travis, it looks to me like the.

[B]

If I had to guess, it would be that the little gray things are cybernetic organisms, robots with biology in them, and the other beings that are running them, they are part of whatever this huge program is as building humanoid entities. That's just what it feels like.

[A]

Right. And it seems like, you know, going back to what Michael Masters was saying in the extraterrestrial model, I believe is there. There seemed to be like an epoch of time during the 80s and 90s, maybe going back into the 70s, where there was like all these crazy abduction. Abduction happening and. And people explaining how they're extracting semen or sperm and like the eggs of the women. And it seemed to be tied to some sort of genetic thing. And Michael Masters, what his hypothesis says is that if this was some distant civilization or like a distant version of us into the future and some sort of a apocalyptic event happened that like bottlenecked the genome. They would.

[B]

They.

[A]

And they had the ability to go back in time. They would go back to where the genome was more diverse, take some specimen, come back and repopulate themselves in the future.

[B]

Yep. So there's this kind of story that's being shoved around I think maybe by the insiders to say that abductions have stopped. They have not stopped.

[A]

That's what I've.

[B]

Yeah, they're not.

[A]

You just don't hear about them as much.

[B]

You don't hear about them as much. But the abductions still happen. I have many friends who are regularly abducted.

[A]

Yeah, I was talking to that about that with. God damn it. What's his name? What's the gentleman's name we've had on here twice. Who's in the John Mack book?

[B]

Oh, oh, oh, oh. Nickerson.

[A]

Nickerson. Randall.

[B]

Randall Nickerson.

[A]

Yes. Randall. Nickerson.

[B]

Sorry, I had a brain fart.

[A]

It's been a long day.

[B]

I'm sorry. We're having brain farts.

[A]

Yeah. Randall. Randall was telling me that. That this stuff's happening. And, you know, he's a guy. Guy who. He's very interesting because he's very spooked by the government involved very stuff, you know, he's afraid to talk about things. It seems like they've been with him for a long time, trying to intimidate him, showing up at his house, things like that. And, you know, he's installed cameras all around his house, you know, even looking up at the sky because he says that this stuff is still happening all the time.

[B]

Yep, it does happen. And I. Nickerson is a brave man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I really admire him. And that damn thing he did on Ruin. It was amazing.

[A]

The abduction. The abduction phenomena is a wild one because it's like that. That's like talking about UFOs is one thing, but then when you want to push it to the abduction stuff like UFOs, it's out of the bag. No one can say UFOs aren't real anymore. Maybe 10 years ago, but now that's accepted by pretty much everybody now. Right? But the, the whole abduction thing, now that's another, another. Another stepping stone that we got to get to. Like, how real is that? Because there certainly are lots of stories that are very similar that talk about these things and, and, and you know, Whitley Strieber is another big one. But like, it can get sketchy, it can get squirrely at sometimes. Like, how do we know to trust these people? They also, you know, people like Whitley Streamer are also tied to like, these historical, like, child experiment programs working in the military where these fucking Nazi scientists were doing all kinds of crazy stuff, trying to make Manchurian candidates and try to partition the minds of children.

[B]

Let me give my favorite experiencer. Her name is Melinda Leslie. Melinda lives in Sedona, Arizona. She takes UFO groups out with night vision goggles and shows them UFOs just about every night. And she has written very large, detailed PowerPoint slides, papers and other things on both alien abductions and military alien involved abductions called my labs.

[A]

Now my labs.

[B]

My labs. Military involved abductions. Okay, so she's detailed. You should have her on. She's very interesting. But anyway, you do what you want. But anyway, what's her name again? Melinda Linda Leslie. She lives in Sedona, Arizona. So she took me out to Bradshaw Ranch, was a very famous weird place, and discovered that over the hill there is an interesting place where weird things happen. And right on the edge of this interesting place is a cement factory. And there's things, trucks and stuff that go in the area behind the cement factory and don't ever come out. They go in, but never come out. So we went over and looked at the stuff happening over at this place, which is under Bureau of Land Management. It's public stuff. You go over there and guys with guns and Suburbans come out and run you off. And she has been out there with Ross Coulthard, me and a bunch of others and watched. Watched the craft come out of the ground escorted by US Military helicopters and other pieces of aviation equipment with weapons on them that cannot be sold to anyone but the US Military. So the US Military is operating over a deep underground military base right outside of Sedona, Arizona, where you can watch the craft fly out of the ground. Ground. Go do it. Melinda.

[A]

Leslie, she'll take what types of weapons,

[B]

like missiles and other things that are only on Apache attack helicopters. And nobody but the military can get access to them by law. Maybe some others get them, but they shouldn't have them by law, but go. Sedona, Arizona is a deep underground military base that you can go watch stuff coming in and out of the ground.

[A]

And she believes that they're doing military assisted abductions.

[B]

So she has had military abductions. She doesn't know what's going on there. She only knows what she can see and show other people.

[A]

Has she been abducted?

[B]

Oh, yes, many times. That's her whole story. That's the reason I'm telling you about her. Many times she's been abducted and what

[A]

does she say happens?

[B]

Hybridization experiments where she met her children years later that were hybrids. And I gotta tell you, all this other stuff I know about her is true because I've seen it with my own two eyes. Leads me to believe this really straightforward person is probably telling me the truth about these abductions.

[A]

Have you ever heard of David Huggins?

[B]

I've heard of him, but don't know anything about him really.

[A]

He's my favorite UFO abductee.

[B]

I don't really know him that well.

[A]

He's great. There's a really amazing film, probably one of my favorite UFO films of all time time, called Love and Saucers, done by a buddy of mine who's been on the show, Brad Abrams. And basically the story is this guy lost his virginity to an alien and he was an artist who got teleported to the woods by some aliens, I guess. And then this big alien woman with long hair and human breasts and human body parts. Parts. Like, had her way with him when he was a young boy in the woods. And then she came back many, many times to. To have sex with them. And then she, at one point, brought back their hybrid baby and introduced them. And, like, the guy has photos of it. He has paintings, not photos. He has paintings. He paints these, like, vivid paintings of what she looked like. Like, he had a name for her. And, you know, he was just like this old, lonely old man who lived in Hoboken, New Jersey. And it's just a crazy, crazy story and a really cool documentary. Do you have any photos, Steve? Oh, David Huggins, of course. You gotta. You can't let me tell the story without showing photos of his paintings so many times. This is it right here. This is the guy.

[B]

Oh, I've seen the COVID of the film. Yeah, I get it. Wow, that's wild.

[A]

Yeah. And yet he also explains those little humanoid grays that are different from that. From the. The lady, right. Who's, like, more of a human being. More of, like a. More human. Right. Like.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Such a crazy story. Oh, yeah. And there were the manted beings in there, too. The ones that look like praying mantises.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. In the background. Yeah, yeah. But he's. He's.

[A]

He's the number one, my favorite experiencer who's. No one ever talks about. Doesn't get enough.

[B]

Well, I did not know any details about him. I have heard his name, but just don't. Didn't know any details.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You got to check out that documentary.

[B]

I will. I will happily do it, love.

[A]

It's really good. Jeffrey Kripal's in there?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

He's a religious scholar.

[B]

If you want to get philosophical and learn how to interact with Jeffrey Kripal is somebody to know. He really is.

[A]

Yeah, he's.

[B]

I just have not had time to go down to the archives of the impossible and interact with him, but I would like to. It's just. I'm really busy.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, the idea that this could be a real phenomenon, and at the same time, there's military abductions happening. It's just freaky.

[B]

It's wild. Just the wild. But go. Go interact with Melinda, Leslie. I guarantee you, you'll probably walk away a believer.

[A]

Didn't you also say that you did something with or you were approached by DARPA to do some sort of DNA thing, like storing stuff on DNA?

[B]

Oh, oh. Oh, no. It's iarpa. Was IARPA the intelligence community Rapid Advanced Research Project Agency. Intelligence Community Advanced Research Project Agency. Irpa. So it was, can you store bits of information inside junk DNA and have it invisible unless you had the right reader? Because your gene won't change because what you get is junk DNA expressed through epigenetics. But yeah, I worked on that and ultimately I didn't do anything good with it because the part I did was, was not good enough to go on to step two. Others went on to step two. Mine was not selected.

[A]

Oh, so you think they are doing that right now?

[B]

I don't have any doubt about it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Let me explain to you why.

[A]

Oh, they have a website.

[C]

Great.

[B]

Yep. So. Oh yeah, they have a website. They're operated up near University of Maryland Intelligence.

[A]

Advanced Research Projects Agency.

[B]

Yeah. Yep. Modeled on DARPA with Ohio Myers. Questions. Anyway, so the intelligence community regularly wants to send people overseas to do stuff, but the biometrics and other sensors are making things very difficult to get in and out. But if you store it in somebody's genes, they're not going to do genetic testing all of your DNA to figure out whether or not you've got anything in you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so this is a way of hiding information so the intelligence community can do its job.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I did not see it to completion. I only saw part one. And I, I've been assuming it went on further, but I was not involved and therefore not read in.

[A]

Yeah, I would assume. I, I, I mean, I personally thought that they were doing this years ago within darpa, you know, because everything you start to hear about in like the public light usually starts was being developed by them like 20 years earlier. Right. They were, they were doing, they were doing neuralink stuff in the 90s, according to Annie Jacobson in her book the Pentagon's Brain, where she studied all the stuff that DARPA has been doing.

[B]

DARPA is a great place. I've had, I don't know, $100 million in contracts with DARPA.

[A]

What, yeah.

[B]

Virginia Tech. Total. Yeah.

[A]

What kind of shit were you doing for them?

[B]

They wanted the ability to control things through artificial intelligence that were networked together at independent agents, but coordinated with each other where communications would fail or not fail. And you needed to figure out how to get things to communicate automatically without human input. So that was a thing. Then we worked on indirectly through a corporation that was under contract to DARPA on sending intelligently operated drones as situational awareness sensors to go out with fielded troops who are going out on foot. And they would fly over and let them know whether they were in Trouble or not or what was going on. And that was with another entity which I won't name because they were the prime contractor and we got a ton of money for that. So basically inside the Hume center, as the chief scientist, I was peripherally or directly involved in almost everything. Those were the things that I found most interesting and tried to do stuff with. But we had, we had, I hired great people along with Charles and others at the Hume Center. We had, we. It's the, the follow on which is the National Security Institute at Virginia Tech is now over $100 million a year in research and is the best funded research center at Virginia Tech. And Charles and I started it for Ted Hume.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Yeah, it's a huge deal there now.

[A]

It is crazy how much just money they have to throw around at stuff. Stuff just like they, they have enough money to throw millions of dollars at the wall just at weird obscure just to see how this can be effective or, or given a slight edge to the U.S. government or the, or the U.S. military. You know, they're. One of the stories that we talked about recently was they paid like $20 million to some university, I want to say in North Carolina to study psilocybin mushrooms and how they could take the psychedelic trip out of the mushroom so they could give them to their soldiers so the soldiers could go into battle, come back, recover from their PSD and get them right back out there on the battlefield. Rinse and repeat.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like, it's just insane.

[B]

The thing that psilocybin does is it massively increases the amount of and rate of neuroplasticity inside the brain. So if you take that and do cognitive behavioral therapy and neuro linguistic programming, you can reprogram them to do all sorts of stuff almost quickly and help them recover quickly and return to service quickly. So the psilocybin and other psychedelics, neuroplasticity is one of the things they cause most and it's going to change all sorts of stuff.

[A]

Yeah, but. Yeah, I just wonder, you know, there seems to be also that, you know, there seems to be a connection with these sort of psychedelic drugs and the phenomena as well. And you wonder like what sort of research could be going on utilizing.

[B]

I'll make a public confession. People know this, but it's not really a secret. But I haven't done it in this big an audience. When I retired in 2020 and other rough stuff happened because of COVID I got depressed, really depressed and I was basically ineffective as a human being for like 18 months. And the ketamine based psychedelic cognitive behavioral therapy treatment was coming out for depression. I went from wondering if I should go on living to completely cured in three months.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I'm like, more productive than I've been in a long, long time. No way. They completely cured me of my depression, which I thought might end my life.

[A]

Only three months?

[B]

You had to do three months?

[A]

How many days a week?

[B]

It was two days a week, but after the end, it got to be one day a week. And then you would do the thing.

[A]

You wean off of it.

[B]

You wean off of it. But you would have the neuroplasticity work and a day later you would have the cognitive behavioral therapy person tell you how to. To change your thinking. That would move you away from the things that keep you depressed.

[A]

No way.

[B]

Yeah. It's just amazing. It's just.

[A]

So how did they administer the ketamine?

[B]

Lodgings under the tongue.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you do that. How long does it last?

[B]

Oh, you go. You're on a trip for about four hours. It was night. It was.

[A]

How hard is it?

[B]

Oh my God. This. It's a. It's crazy. I did it blindfolded and under a blanket. And I went all over the universe and saw all sorts of stuff. It was wild.

[A]

Any bad trips or were they all positive?

[B]

No, we're all positive. No way. Even with all that depression, I didn't have any bad trips.

[A]

Interesting. Do they play music and stuff? Like make it enjoyable?

[B]

But that was not forbidden. But I didn't. I wanted like sensory deprivation.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And have that with, with the ketamine enhancer. And I would wake up and I'd feel a little woozy. And the next day I would have the. My CBT session session, and it cured me. In three months, I literally went from I'm incapacitated to working better and more efficiently on new stuff than I had.

[A]

So you do the ketamine one day, the next day you go in with a therapist and they work you through

[B]

how to work you through your training on how to stop thinking wrong.

[A]

Right. Right. Wow.

[B]

It is amazing. These things are miracles.

[A]

That's what John Lilly was on, I think was ketamine.

[B]

I don't remember. I don't.

[A]

John Lilly went crazy on ketamine. I mean, and he thought he was talking to aliens.

[B]

Well, I can believe you saw the aliens because, I mean, I saw all sorts of stuff.

[A]

He thought he was communicating with a, with a. With another race of, of aliens. John Lily's a crazy one too. He. He Invented the sensory deprivation tank. And he was famously doing NASA funded experiments on dolphins.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like cutting the tops of their heads open and putting probes in their brains trying to figure out communication with dolphins. Crazy, crazy ugly. But yeah, the, apparently ibogaine is about to get approved for treatment for PTSD and other things. They're rushing a bunch of these psychedelics through right now.

[B]

They are, because they are, they are actually safe and effective in the hands of a professional. And if you have a therapist there to help you with whatever the actual problem is, they are a positive thing. I'm living proof of that. They should not be illegal, legal. But my opinion is not just anybody should do it. You should have a professional.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who you pay to take care of you.

[A]

They're definitely not for everyone.

[B]

They are not. They are definitely not.

[A]

Some of them can be.

[B]

The way the one Mine, mine did. It was, it was the first three, first two doses I went, is this ever going to do anything? And they were creeping you up to oh yeah, this is going to work.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. They're, they're, they're very careful, they're very useful as tools to overcome things like depression or PTSD or whatever. Even as like a, an enhancement to like salt, like for problem solving. Like I've noticed like psychedelics can be good for solving problems or getting you out of a specific rut you're at, you're at in your life or trying to figure something out. Like you can do that. It kind of gets you off that, that, that daily mental vibration that you're on gets you on a different vibration.

[B]

So I just, me personally, because of my oaths and the fact that I still carry my clearances, I can't do any of that on my own. I'd have to have a medical reason if I do it at all. So I might like to experiment with dmt.

[A]

Did you have to let them know that you were doing this?

[B]

Oh, absolutely. They absolutely had to know. But it was okay as long as it was administered by a medical professional for medical reason.

[A]

They have like armed security in there watching, making sure you don't say shit about aliens.

[B]

So random. Doing it on your own just for the hell of it because you want a trip that is illegal and will cause my security clearance to be revoked. So I won't do it.

[A]

Right? Yeah. But yeah, it seems good that this stuff's becoming more and more, more and more popularized and becoming hopefully gets cleared by like FDA and stuff because it's, you know, like you said, it's a lot safer than some of the other alternatives that are out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the pharmaceutical pills and, you know, opiates and all that kind of stuff that is just synonymous for just killing people. Did it ever feel like at any point like you were disconnected from your body?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So I've had that happen when I was wearing blindfolds and trying to learn how to see through the blindfold. Blindfolded seeing.

[A]

So I started this is the mind site stuff.

[B]

Yeah, I know those mindsight people, Wendy Gallant and Freeman. And yeah, I know Sean McNamara. I know them really well. Anyway, they are my mentors. Okay. So I would wake up and I would sit up and I would see everything in the room and it would take me a few seconds to realize I still had my blindfold on. So the craziest one caused me to stop for a bit was I woke up, sat up, felt this weird, funny feeling and saw that I could see through the blindfold. And then I went, what is going on? So I turned around and looked and go, who is that sleeping next to my girlfriend? And looked and it was me. I was out of my body, looking at me next to my girlfriend, and I panicked and I jumped back into the body and woke up.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah, that was my first remembered obe.

[A]

So were you fully unconscious? Were you conscious?

[B]

Fully conscious.

[A]

Fully conscious.

[B]

But my body was over there asleep. Whoa. It's called an out of body experience and I did not plan it. It was for me trying to do this other stuff and it just happened. No drugs. It's. No, none whatsoever. Don't do drugs during that. Don't do that. You're trying to have a conscious.

[A]

See, My problem with this stuff is I believe it's real, but I also feel like there's a lot of fakers out there and a lot of grifters

[B]

out there trying to. I totally agree with that. And they're trying to scam your money off you. I don't do that kind of thing. In other words, I don't talk to people that would do that.

[A]

That.

[B]

And so these people have published books, they have protocols.

[A]

What are you. What are your thoughts on the cygames thing?

[B]

Well, I'm going to cygames and I

[A]

think there's any fuckery going on with those people. You think it's all legit.

[B]

From what I know about the people who are involved with the cygames, they are trying to run it legit. They had a lot of complaints. So between last time and the one that's coming up shortly, they have put in all sorts of protective protocol walls. So the. The can't happen.

[A]

Right? Yeah, my. My biggest issue with that stuff, like the telepathy tapes and the mindsight stuff, is that they won't let any stage magicians go in there and observe them doing what they do. And their excuses, that'll ruin the energy or the vibe or whatever. Like, if there's someone who. If there's someone in here who is slightly skeptical, it will shut down our abilities. But there are.

[B]

There has to be protocols.

[A]

There's mentalists and shit, and these magicians who know how to fake this stuff, and they can literally fake it and tell you, yeah, I'll show you how I'm faking it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Look, I believe it.

[A]

I believe it's real.

[B]

But I believe the cygames people are working hard to get around the criticism and the contradictions and the not being utterly transparent, because my opinion of what I know of them is they really do want to have people believe and believe it's real and not faked. They're trying hard to figure out the protocols, and I wish them luck.

[A]

Right, so you think. You think all that stuff that happened in the telepathy tapes, like these nonverbal kids going to this hill and speaking to all these entities, you think all that shit's real?

[B]

I was born in 1954 in Lebanon, Tennessee, and by the time I was one year old, I'd had cerebral meningitis and had three NDEs, so I was cardiac arrested for long enough. They thought I was dead, so I got out of it. And later on, when I was 3 years old and we had moved to a new town where my grandparents and parents were involved in a furniture manufacturing deal, and. And I woke up one day and had been talking to angels in my sleep, is what I call them.

[A]

At 3.

[B]

At 3 years old, and I walked into the room where my mother and her best friend were drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and gossiping, and I walked over to the bookshelf, grabbed a book, opened it up, and started reading it to them. And they were dumbfounded. My mother thought it was a miracle because nobody had taught me to read it. But whatever these things were taught me to read, and then that kind of stuff went on until I was 10 years old, and then I was doing radio building and telescope building and all this other stuff, and I kept going to this place where these things taught me and other people were there. And my mother told me, look, we're gonna do some things I don't want you to be a bookworm isolated and alone and not interacting with people. So I had to stop doing all of that stuff in public. All that stuff could be done at home. And she brought, did like had all the boys come over on Saturday and play touch football and all that kind of stuff. She taught me how to interact with other people through all of these activities. Whereas I kept going. And something was teaching me. I now believe after those tapes I was on the Hill because I was slightly on the spectrum, because I was hyper focused. You couldn't break into my reverie. And then she wanted me to go on and learn how to interact with people. So I'm the product of a brilliant mother and I was taught by something that's like on the hill. And by 18, I had an hour and a half of missing time with my girlfriend driving home from college. And within two weeks I changed colleges, majors and everything to become what I am today rather than what I thought I was going to be. And so to me, I've got something that's directing my life in certain directions. I don't know what it is, but I feel I have enough agency to make decisions on my own. I haven't been allowed to choose major deals in my life that. That are really transformative. But after that I feel I have free will. I just don't know what it is. I don't want to claim it's the Hill, but I'm telling you everything about that sounds like the Hill. And so I believe them.

[A]

And you remember those NDEs from that year?

[B]

Oh, no, I don't remember the NDEs. I remember other things after it. My mother told me about the NDEs. No, I don't remember anything about the NDEs, but they were cardiac arrests. I was definitely near death.

[A]

Wow. Wow, man. That's crazy.

[B]

It's wild.

[A]

So wild really is.

[B]

And what do you do with this? I mean, you gotta remember I'm a physical materialist scientist, but I'm also all into the consciousness. Because I can't explain all this consciousness stuff with the physical materialist science. But I don't wanna write it off. Cause what I can do is gather data and do observational science. It's just trying to balance it. That's what I'm trying to do.

[A]

Right, right. Well, I mean, there seems to be just covering everything that we've talked about today, like the whole phenomenon and even like the history of like the United States space program. If you look at the people that were involved in like NASA in the early days, they seem to believe there was more to this than this. The materialists, I don't know whether you've

[B]

watched it, but the NASA guys from back in the time, the ones that came back and said nothing happened, they're now showing videotapes and other things of them actually reporting all these craft, following them around. We now know that Neil and Buzz and Mike saw something on the moon. And now their stories is coming out because NASA hasn't forced them to lie anymore.

[A]

Well, you're talking about the Apollo 17 stuff that is coming.

[B]

But Apollo 11, they saw a craft on the moon near where they landed. They were told to shut up, be quiet and never mention it. And Niels was so upset about it, he quit the program and went to Teach University. And Mike became the head of the Air and Space Museum. And Buzz became. Whatever Buzz became because he was an interesting character. But now we know they actually saw stuff and reported.

[A]

Yeah, and Edgar Mitchell, he was definitely into consciousness.

[B]

He founded ions and a bunch of other stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he definitely did these. And we now know that it was known by intern people internal to NASA that he was doing these experiments. They just covered it all up. They didn't want anybody to know.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

They knew about that and covered it up. And the, the, the airbrushed photos, we now know that they are there and are real. Well, I think we're going to get to see some of them of non human structures on the far side of the moon. I think that's coming out.

[A]

Who is the guy? Jesse was telling me a story about a guy who was shown photos of the structures on the dark side of the moon. And like he was mysteriously killed. Killed in like a biking accident. Not much. Not long after that.

[B]

I don't remember the name. I can't remember the name.

[A]

But anyway, this guy actually came out and said this.

[B]

Well, how Poven Meyer was coming to Chris Bledsoe's house. He told Chris about.

[A]

Yeah, I remember that.

[B]

Every bit of it. He told him about the structures on the moon. He told him about the airbrushing before anyone like me or Chris would know. And Povimar definitely told that stuff to Chris.

[A]

Yeah. Just going back, you know, coming full circle to how we started this conversation on Chris and you know, all the spooks that are involved in this whole, this topic behind the scenes like Pav and Meyer and Taylor and the other guy, semi van and even the other, the, the, the Stereot Goats guy. I forget his name.

[B]

General Stubblebine and Colonel Alexander.

[A]

John Alexander. Yeah. Like if they're telling him all this crazy stuff and you know, and he's going and writing books and doing podcasts. They know that this stuff is making its way from their mouths, through his ears and into the microphones.

[B]

Definitely by design.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This is an operation.

[A]

It's not an accident.

[B]

It's by design and is an operation.

[A]

Yeah. Have you ever talked to him about that?

[B]

No.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

Chris believes them and trusts them and he's my friend, so I want him to be able to follow his own conscience, do his own thing. I sometimes feel he's being misled, and so when it gets really bad, I talk to him. But I don't want to get between. I don't want any of this to get between me and Chris and his family. I really do love them. He's like a brother. I just can't be objective. So I don't want to really involve myself. I just have a bright light between those I care about and those I want to inform. And Chris I care about too much. Look, after the miraculous healing, I just can't be objective.

[A]

Talking about your heart thing?

[B]

Yeah. I can't be objective and no one would believe me if I tried to be objective. No one would believe me. They would think I was influencing Cuckoo. So I just don't do it right. And so I don't allow myself to even start down the road. Cause I just don't want to harm Chris and I don't want to take on a bunch of stuff that, that he's doing that I don't think is good for him.

[A]

His prediction about The Easter of 2026 thing was spot on so far.

[B]

I mean, the Israelis are bombing Iran. No one thought that 10 years ago that was going to happen. And here it is.

[A]

What? Israel bombing Iran.

[B]

Oh. The vision is Israel and Iran getting into a war and Israel getting so bad off against Iran they fired a nuclear weapon. A non human intelligence came and stopped it.

[A]

The Israel didn't fire nuke though, did they?

[B]

Not yet. Not yet. Certainly not yet.

[A]

It's certainly possible.

[B]

It's looking like, whoa, man. Not yet.

[A]

Oh my God. That was his vision. Israel fires a nuke and a UFO stops it.

[B]

Y. That was his essential nature of his vision.

[A]

I can't write anything off these days. No, I mean, like, I can't like to say something like that would be possible. A year ago I would say, get the out of here.

[B]

That's exactly what I said in the last mine.

[A]

The last three months of that we've been seeing.

[B]

Yeah, I'm going Chris now.

[A]

I'm like, Chris was right.

[B]

Chris was right. He may have some details wrong, but the big picture is right. What he told me in 2020, it's just kind of amazing. It's amazing that this kind of thing can be done. So I believe that you can see and feel the future and it's retro causality and it's going to change the entire world as we actually figure it out. Pay attention because you'll find me involved, because I'm definitely going to be involved.

[A]

Well, Bob, thank you for doing this, man.

[B]

Oh, this was so much fun dancing. I really appreciate it.

[A]

We have Patreon questions.

[B]

We do.

[A]

We have our beautiful Patreon people who asked you some private questions. We'll ask you after the podcast, though. Before you end the podcast, tell people where they can learn more about your work or contact you. All that fun stuff so you can.

[B]

I'm Bob McGuire. Underscore N4HY on X. I am Robert McGuire on LinkedIn and on Facebook. I'm Bob McGuire on Facebook and everything else I keep private to share with people that I'm involved with.

[A]

Perfect. We'll link all your stuff below. Thanks again, man. I really enjoyed this.

[B]

This was great.

[A]

All right, good night, folks.