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#401 - “Epstein’s Classified VHS Tapes Would End Society” (It’s Worse Than You Think) | Ben Swann
02:55:14
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- [00:00]
Danny Jones
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Ben Swan. Nice to meet you, bro.
- [00:31]
Ben Swann
Thanks, you too, man. I love this place, by the way. It's amazing in here. Thank you, dude. Thank you.
- [00:36]
Danny Jones
Yeah. John Kiriaku recommended I get you on Good. And talk about all your stuff. And I've been digging into your history, which is insane.
- [00:44]
Ben Swann
A little bit.
- [00:45]
Danny Jones
And it. How you've been vindicated over, like, with the last 10 years, with the drop of all these Epstein files confirming everything that you lost your career over.
- [00:55]
Ben Swann
Essentially. Yeah.
- [00:55]
Danny Jones
So why don't you, like, lay it out for people like, how did this all start for you?
- [00:58]
Ben Swann
Yeah, so, you know, I was a journalist. Still am, for 25 years. I started out, you know, as a news photographer, working in local news. Became an anchor. Kind of worked my way up through the ranks. Worked for Fox, cbs, NBC. So, you know, just kind of did that for years. And I ended up in Cincinnati working for the Fox station there and really started doing stuff that was a little bit outside of what normal local news is, which, by the way, is a horrible product. Who watches this garbage? And so we hit a sweet spot. We talked about things that other people wouldn't talk about. And this. You know, it's funny when you say that now everybody does that, right? That's not no big deal anymore. But that wasn't true. Even back, like, in 2012. It was very hard to find that because, remember, a lot of this social media content was in its infancy in 2012. You know, there was no Instagram video. Facebook didn't even have video in 2012. Right. That if you go back, Facebook video didn't start till 2015. So this is still a. A new medium in terms of how people are getting information, Right?
- [01:58]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [01:58]
Ben Swann
Twitter didn't have video. YouTube was the only place you could find it. We kind of blew up on YouTube because we would talk about, you know, things like the petrodollar on local news, and we would talk about things like blowback from the CIA and things that you weren't supposed to talk about in local news. So we did really well with that. And then I ended up going to Atlanta and just kept. Kept doing it. Man, we were building this massive following online. Had the largest following of any journalists in the local News station online by a measure of 10. It was pretty incredible. And when I was in Atlanta, because I had such a huge online following, you know, about a million people at the time, which again, was unheard of for what I was doing. They would weigh in on. I'm sure this happens to you all the time, topics, what they want you to cover, things that are happening. Well, in 2015, there was this.
- [02:46]
Danny Jones
Who specifically was weighing in on that?
- [02:48]
Ben Swann
The audience. The audience through Twitter and through Facebook at the time. So they're putting stuff out. This is. Now we're getting to, you know, 2016. Facebook now has video on it. So we're doing. I think we did 150 million views in 2016 on Facebook. I mean, it was insane, the kind of coverage we were doing. And we were just doing everything right. From wars to covering the election, you know, talking about what a disaster the war in the Middle east had been. Again, nobody would. In news was really doing this at the time. No one in politics was doing it. Right. Until 2016, when Trump finally said it.
- [03:19]
Danny Jones
Was there a political bent to the news station you're working for, like a political leaning or.
- [03:22]
Ben Swann
Well, all news stations, I would say, lean pretty left.
- [03:25]
Danny Jones
Okay.
- [03:26]
Ben Swann
Right. And I don't think they even necessarily.
- [03:28]
Danny Jones
Stations, you mean. Yeah, okay.
- [03:29]
Ben Swann
I don't think it's that they even mean to lean that way. I think it's just. It's the anchors, the culmination of people who were there. Right. All kind of share the same worldview. Right, right.
- [03:38]
Danny Jones
I see.
- [03:39]
Ben Swann
But even when you get like, into Fox, you know, and at one point, I was. I was offered a position at Fox and I turned it down. The. Even that network, a lot of the people who work there are not Republicans and not even conservatives. Right. A lot of them are Democrats and their liberals, they go to liberal colleges and they. They want a job in tv, so they end up working there.
- [03:58]
Danny Jones
Right, right.
- [03:59]
Ben Swann
So by 2016, there's this story on the Internet that's getting a lot of attention on Twitter at the time. And it was actually the number one trending topic on Twitter for almost a year. And that was this story called Pizzagate. People started saying there's this. There's this crazy thing that's happening, and kids are being, you know, the basement of a pizza parlor in Washington, D.C. hillary Clinton's eating children. Right. It was this crazy story. Yeah. I'm like, there's no way any of this is true. So I just stayed away from it because there, in my mind, there's real things to talk About, Right, right. Like at the time the Syrian civil war is blowing up and we're trying to overthrow Assad, and there's like, you know, fake 5 year olds who are tweeting in perfect English to the United States, please come help us send soldiers. And it's like, what, what is this? Right, right. So I'm covering that kind of stuff and trying to expose that, but people keep pushing and pushing and pushing. So one night I'm sitting there because I'm the anchor of that station as well, their primetime anchor. And so my co anchor and I are sitting there one night and we're reading stories. And the way it works in local TV is so you're, you know, we're in Atlanta, that's the eighth largest TV market in the country, but we still take a lot of our news from the network that will send it down to us in what are called feeds. So they'll feed you down stories to cover that are already written. And then you also have a feed that comes from like the Associated Press, cnn. A lot of people are tied into something called CNN News Source. And so CNN sends these pre written you and it's kind of the big stories that they're covering. And by the way, they're always the gospel, right? You never challenge anything that comes down from on high, right? So we're, we're sitting there and one night we're reading a story about a guy who goes into a pizza parlor in D.C. with a, with a shotgun and he shoots up the place because of this conspiracy theory online that had gained traction. And so he had been, his mind had been twisted and warped by it, right? And so I remember I'm reading the story and I'm like, oh, this is that story that everyone keeps talking about, right? So read about this guy. And then in our script that came down from cnn and then the next day it comes down from CBS also, the claim is, and you can go back and look it up, the claim is that Macedonian sheep farmers created the Pizzagate theory in order to prevent Hillary Clinton from becoming president. So we read this on the air and I'm like, this is crazier than the stuff people are telling me online, right? The idea that how would a Macedonian sheep farmer concoct this theory? And why would they concoct it? And how would they get all of Twitter talking about it? Right. It was totally crazy. And so that was the theory that was kind of pushed out into the mainstream. And so at that point I was like, okay, I'll look into it. So I get online, start messaging out, just kind of blasting out on Twitter. I'm going to look at Pizzagate, as crazy as it sounds. Send me what you have. So people start sending information about it and the first thing I find out is it's got nothing to do with Macedonian sheep farmers. Right. Spoiler alert. Instead the first thing you find out is, oh, these, these files come from John Podesta's emails.
- [07:06]
Danny Jones
The WikiLeaks.
- [07:07]
Ben Swann
WikiLeaks, right. So John Podesta, the claim is he left his phone in a cabin in New York. Somebody got it, they saw who's who it belonged to, passed it through. I don't know how many hands ended up in the hands of someone associated with WikiLeaks. And then they dumped 50,000 emails online. Right. And remember, I mean, WikiLeaks doesn't do much anymore and no one really talks about them much anymore. Right. But WikiLeaks at the time, they weren't ever editorializing anything. Right. They just put out information.
- [07:35]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [07:36]
Ben Swann
So if they got an email, they didn't tell you what to think about the email, they just put it up on.
- [07:40]
Danny Jones
They put the raw info out there.
- [07:42]
Ben Swann
You read it for yourself, you decide what you think of it.
- [07:44]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [07:45]
Ben Swann
And so they had dumped these emails. Okay. And then I started finding out that, well, actually it's not again, sheep farmers. It's a great. A group of self. Self professed pedophile on 4chan and HN at the time. Because people were on a lot of these chat rooms and this is where kind of pet would go to communicate. We're the first people to say, has anybody noticed that John Podesta has an awful lot of emails using the language we use, which is using pizza coded language. I'd never heard of this. I never heard of pizza being used as a code for anything, especially for job fee.
- [08:28]
Danny Jones
PDF files.
- [08:29]
Ben Swann
PDF files. So.
- [08:32]
Danny Jones
So they were. These kind of people were, were admitting this online.
- [08:36]
Ben Swann
Yeah, but remember, these chat rooms are all anonym. And so they're all sitting.
- [08:39]
Danny Jones
Oh, because it's 4chan. Got it.
- [08:41]
Ben Swann
And so they're anonymously talking to each other in these groups, which is where even at the time, I mean, you could go back and look at local police departments or FBI. This is where they would go to try to find these rings to break them.
- [08:52]
Danny Jones
Oh really?
- [08:53]
Ben Swann
This is where they congregate. Or at the time they would. Right, right here. Right again. Internet's changed a lot in 20 years. Right. Years ago it was like chat rooms and people would IM each other. It's all. It's all changed so much technologically in a very short amount of time. So then, you know, as a journalist, then I start looking at, okay, well, then the next step is, is this true? Like, do pedals communicate with each other like this? So next thing I do is I get online, go into 4chan, go into 8chan, and start trying to communicate with these groups and saying, is this true? And they're all like, yeah, this is. This is how we talk to each other.
- [09:29]
Danny Jones
By the way, how common is it for a local news anchor like yourself to go this deep on something?
- [09:35]
Ben Swann
Nothing. Never happens. Never happens. Who's going to do that? Sounds toug. No, this does not happen. Right? Totally unique to something like this. But I was. I was, like, fascinated by it. Right. So then the next thing I did was then I was like, okay, well, is there anything outside of the word of a pet? Not exactly the most credible people, necessarily. But aside from the PDF files who are online, is there any way to verify this? And the funny thing was, I looked at the time. This isn't. Again, 2016. I find an entry in Urban Dictionary from 2010, so from six years before, where if you looked up cheese pizza, it stated at the time, this was code language used by pedophiles because it's an acronym. Cheese pizza, cp. Cp. So if they were trying to exchange, they would say, I have cheese pizza. Who wants cheese pizza? That's how they would communicate with each other, with an acronym. And then out of that acronym, there grew a series of other code words that were pizza related. So like pizza slice, hot dog, all those different kinds of things. Pizza, sauce, pasta, it's all related to that. But that's where the origin, the genesis of it is. The acronym cp.
- [10:52]
Danny Jones
Got it. Right, Got it.
- [10:55]
Ben Swann
Now, there are people, to this day, in 2026, shockingly, who still say that's not true. There's no proof of this. The funny thing is, even as recently as 2023, the FBI arrested a prolific sex offender who was a child sex offender. And the way they caught him was online. They caught him using pizza language in order to communicate, and that was specifically how they tracked him. It's in the documents surrounding his arrest and his conviction. Really?
- [11:23]
Danny Jones
Yeah. Is this the Dennis Hastert guy?
- [11:26]
Ben Swann
Dennis Hastrut's different than that. Okay, okay. Yes. Dennis Hastert was the speaker of the House.
- [11:30]
Danny Jones
Okay.
- [11:31]
Ben Swann
This is back in the 19, late 80s, early 90s.
- [11:34]
Danny Jones
Oh, wow.
- [11:35]
Ben Swann
So third most powerful person in Washington. Years later, he was finally convicted of having when he was a Wrestling coach in his previous life, brutally, dozens of boys who were in his programs.
- [11:50]
Danny Jones
Jesus Christ.
- [11:51]
Ben Swann
When the judge sentenced him, the judge said that they had. The judge said, I have never in my. All of my career sentenced a more prolific and violent sex offender than Dennis Hastrup.
- [12:03]
Danny Jones
And he only did. He only did. How much time?
- [12:05]
Ben Swann
Oh, it was very short amount of time. 18 months, I think it was a very short amount. Yeah.
- [12:10]
Danny Jones
That's insane, man.
- [12:11]
Ben Swann
And he was very old and decrepit at the time. But you have to think if. If you abuse that many boys that violently, that many years before, you don't just turn it off. Right, right. You don't just stop. So that's kind of how we got into the. Got into the story and then kept digging into it and, you know, found a lot of stuff. We put together this report. Yeah, we ran the report. I ran it all, you know, all the way up the chain of the station that I was at. You know, my news director read it, agreed with it.
- [12:39]
Danny Jones
Like really?
- [12:39]
Ben Swann
Yeah. And we actually were very gentle with it in that there's a lot of imagery associated with that pizza place. Imagery that was from the Instagram page of the guy who owned it. The guy who owned it, James Elephantis, you know, there's no evidence that he's done anything to anyone, but he had a lot of, like, very weird, questionable, seemingly perverse photographs on his Instagram, little girl with a wrist taped table, things like that. Yeah.
- [13:04]
Danny Jones
What was the deal with the pizza place, though? Because the story was this happened in the basement, but the place didn't even have a basement. Right.
- [13:10]
Ben Swann
That's what they say.
- [13:12]
Danny Jones
Is there proof of that? Like, didn't somebody go in there?
- [13:15]
Ben Swann
The guy went in with. With the gun. And I think there are people who have tried.
- [13:17]
Danny Jones
I mean, after that, like, people.
- [13:18]
Ben Swann
Yeah, I think there are people who have tried to.
- [13:19]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [13:20]
Ben Swann
I think there are people who tried to. What I will, What I will break on your show is that since the Epstein stuff, since we've kind of been vindicated through all this, I've had a lot of people who have come to me and said, you were right. 10 years ago. 10 years ago. I was too afraid to say something, but I'm going to show you this, this, this. And what I will tell you is there is a basement in that pizza parlor.
- [13:47]
Danny Jones
Really?
- [13:49]
Ben Swann
Yep.
- [13:50]
Danny Jones
You have images to prove it? No way.
- [13:54]
Ben Swann
So we're. We're putting. We're putting that together in the form of a full film that we'll be releasing soon. But it blew my mind Because I didn't believe there was. I thought this was just, you know, it became part of the conspiracy. Because the thing is, whether there's a basement or not, right, the. The concept of Pizzagate is still true. There are powerful people who ritualistically and systematically abuse small children.
- [14:19]
Danny Jones
Right?
- [14:20]
Ben Swann
Right. And a lot of those people are around the largest centers of power in this country. Right. Whether they be the. The tech centers, the political centers, the financial centers, that's where they are. That, regardless of this one pizza place, is true. But turns out the other part's true as well.
- [14:40]
Danny Jones
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- [16:07]
Ben Swann
Exactly. So there is a. And you go back to 2007, I believe, and it's an FBI document at the time, and it was for internal use it was later declassified, but for internal use. There are certain symbols that they use within these pedal communities to communicate their preferences. Because there's lots of different kinds of preferences. And one of them is a symbol for boy love or boy lover. And it is a triangle within triangles that goes all the way around in the story. You can see it very clearly. Well, that pizza place under the name Best of Pizza had that in their logo. It was turned sideways, but it's. It's the same symbol. Now you can say, well, maybe he just likes the triangle and didn't realize what it was. Or some.
- [16:47]
Danny Jones
These logos are the symbols.
- [16:49]
Ben Swann
And then the other thing that happens. Yep, that's it in the middle. So the. The logo for boy lover. And then you see the way they. They built out the symbol.
- [16:58]
Danny Jones
They put some cheese on it and some dots. And then that's the final one they change it to. On the very right.
- [17:05]
Ben Swann
Correct.
- [17:05]
Danny Jones
Without the remove.
- [17:07]
Ben Swann
They remove the centerpiece of it. But what's also interesting about this, and see if you can probably find this too. And if you go to my original story, it's. The image is in there. So that alone doesn't mean anything. Right. It could be coincidental, however. The guy who owned the place had all these indie bands who would come in and they had a really weird name. Sex Stains was one of them. I can't remember what the second one was.
- [17:29]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [17:29]
Ben Swann
But they. But those bands, one of them had a music video and a lot of their music was about. But they had a music video in which the drummer on the front of their drum set has that boy lover symbol.
- [17:42]
Danny Jones
What?
- [17:43]
Ben Swann
It's colored. Not like the pizza logo. Colored like the FBI version. Dude. Yeah. So I think you know this idea. And again, you know, I'm not here to. To claim anything about the guy specifically who owns it. I have no evidence that he's done anything to anyone. So I don't want to claim that he has. What I'm saying, though is that there is. There were a lot of questions that were around the story. So my original story was simply to say this. Why hasn't this actually been investigated by anyone with power to investigate it? Why is it only online people who are talking about it?
- [18:14]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [18:15]
Ben Swann
One of the things that stood out to me about the guy who owned the place is that he had been named in 2013 or 2014, I think maybe 2015, GQ magazine had named him one of the 50 most powerful people in Washington, D.C. a pizza shop owner in some strip mall in D.C. it's like D.C. has 100 senators, it has the President and his Cabinet. Right. The whole administration. It has the supreme court, it has 435 members of Congress of the House.
- [18:47]
Danny Jones
What's this guy's name?
- [18:48]
Ben Swann
James Elephantis.
- [18:50]
Danny Jones
James Elephantis. See if you can find that gq.
- [18:53]
Ben Swann
Gq, James.
- [18:54]
Danny Jones
Type in gq. James Elephantes. See what you can find.
- [18:57]
Ben Swann
See if it's been scrubbed. If it's, if it has been scrubbed. It's also in the original story, the image of it.
- [19:00]
Danny Jones
So when you brought all this to the higher ups at the news channel, they were, they were like, cool, let's do it, see what happens.
- [19:06]
Ben Swann
Yeah, they. I remember I asked the guy because it took so many weeks after that guy had walked in with his gun. It took so many weeks to put this together and really investigate it.
- [19:14]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [19:14]
Ben Swann
That by the time I took to him, I said to him, so it's ready to go. My only question is, do you still want to run it? Because it's been so many weeks. Right. He read through the story and he said, I don't see why we wouldn't run it. Like you're the only one who's talking about this. And it's all here. It's like there's nothing you can look at. I would argue that you can look at on that story and say, well, that's not true. Like everything we pointed out was true. Now some people could say, well, maybe you're connecting things that you don't have the right to connect. Maybe. So challenge it. Right? Right. Tell me where it's wrong. Right. But again, our point was that, and even today, like I interviewed Michael Tracy, who's a very smart guy on Substack, he's a good journalist, but he's kind of a contrarian.
- [19:54]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [19:55]
Ben Swann
For the sake of it. There you go.
- [19:58]
Danny Jones
This is him.
- [19:59]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [20:00]
Danny Jones
Oh my God. He's number 49 of the top 50 most influential people in Washington. That is absurd.
- [20:09]
Ben Swann
Not influential. It says powerful.
- [20:10]
Danny Jones
Oh, powerful.
- [20:11]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [20:15]
Danny Jones
Jesus Christ, dude.
- [20:18]
Ben Swann
And you own a single pizza shop.
- [20:21]
Danny Jones
So it wasn't a chain, it was just oneoff you.
- [20:23]
Ben Swann
Yeah, it's not a chain. It's his own. His own place. And the reason he got dragged into the whole thing is because he's all over Podesta's emails communicating with Podesta about pizza. So that's how people traced it to him specifically. That's why he got dragged into it.
- [20:39]
Danny Jones
And then the whole thing about Podesta's brother and his house with all those paintings and all that creepy ass artwork that he has in his house. It just adds a whole nother layer to this thing. Like, what the fuck are these people really doing?
- [20:52]
Ben Swann
It does add another layer. And I think when you, when you. Again, it's so interesting because the sourcing for that isn't some Internet sleuth who was like, oh, I found out what he's got Tony Podesta has in his house. Tony Podesta had, I believe it was from the Washington Post, had some lifetime editor who years before had walked through his house to show off all of his artwork bragging about it. Yeah. And there. And it's a glowing piece written about his kind of risque. Art was risque. Artwork is like little girls lined up bare bottomed with, with their asses are red where they've been spanked. Right. They've been disciplined. He had. He had. There it is. Jeffrey Dahmer. That's the pose of how Jeffrey Dahmer left some of his victims.
- [21:35]
Danny Jones
Really?
- [21:36]
Ben Swann
Yeah. That's what that piece of art is. The headless body twisted like that hanging in his foyer. And that is the, the way Jeffrey Dahmer left some.
- [21:45]
Danny Jones
And he's posing in front of it like this. There's. Yeah, there's way sicker than this too. There's like weird with like kids all lined up like chained together and stuff.
- [21:54]
Ben Swann
It's very, very perverse stuff. And by the way, I would argue this is something else we're working on as part of this new film we're going to put together. There is a. There is a.
- [22:06]
Danny Jones
Look at that one. That thing with the big long like sloth hands.
- [22:10]
Ben Swann
Yeah, look at that. No, is that, is that in his place?
- [22:15]
Danny Jones
I don't know if that's in his place or not.
- [22:17]
Ben Swann
Probably not. Yeah, that's pretty weird. But there's. There is a correlation, I would argue, between what These, I don't want to say these. Right. I want to get sued between what child. These child ritualistic predators do and cannibalism. There is definitely a correlation between those two worlds. And the reason I say that is like, again, if you go into like what Podesta has there. Right. Why, why would Tony Podesta have artwork that celebrates the victims of a cannibal? John Podesta, his brother, whose emails were leaked in his campaign office. And you can look this one up too. In his campaign office for Hillary Clinton, when he was working for his chief of staff, he has a painting of a doctor eating one of his patients. And so there's a lot of like cannibalistic Stuff that, that fits into that and I think when you start to dig in on the Epstein stuff. So Epstein's a complicated story because I keep describing it to people like this. From what I can understand, it's like a series of rings. Right. The widest ring is like just because you're in one of Jeffrey Epstein's emails doesn't mean you're even.
- [23:31]
Danny Jones
Yes, that's a great way to put it.
- [23:32]
Ben Swann
Right. That's a great way to put outer ring. That's a. Of people in there. Because that was his job. Part of what he did as an intelligence asset is he's just going to connect to us.
- [23:39]
Danny Jones
I talk to lots of scientists that have done just one off zoom calls with the guy just because he was interested in whatever they were looking at and they knew like why wouldn't I do this? This guy's funded all my smartest people I know. You know what I mean?
- [23:50]
Ben Swann
Absolutely. He, he was a, a. What are you looking for?
- [23:56]
Danny Jones
Oh, the doctor photograph. Type in, Type in.
- [24:02]
Ben Swann
Yeah, that's. That was in the Tony Podesta home. Those are the, the girls who were.
- [24:06]
Danny Jones
He said it was a doctor eating patient type that.
- [24:09]
Ben Swann
Yeah. And that was also a, a write up that was done I think by the Washington Post about his, his is.
- [24:19]
Danny Jones
Is that on the clown?
- [24:20]
Ben Swann
No, no, I would recognize it if I saw it.
- [24:25]
Danny Jones
Keep looking Steve, you'll find it.
- [24:27]
Ben Swann
See some of this stuff gets scrubbed and that's what's interesting too.
- [24:29]
Danny Jones
Google curates this dud you when you
- [24:33]
Ben Swann
find stuff along the way that's. I've tried to save as much as I can because that stuff disappears in a very odd way.
- [24:39]
Danny Jones
It does. It really does. So the ring analogy, it's great.
- [24:43]
Ben Swann
So yeah. So that widest ring, there's lots of people. And you're absolutely right too. Like when you're as wealthy as Jeffrey Epstein is and you can fund a lot of stuff. Why, why wouldn't people talk to him? Especially when they don't know.
- [24:52]
Danny Jones
Right, exactly.
- [24:54]
Ben Swann
So you have that wider ring. Then you had a. And this is a pretty kind of crude analogy because obviously you're trying to draw lines without really understanding the lines. But I would say the next ring up is okay, there are people who, hey, maybe we go a little bit deeper. I'm into some weird stuff like cloning and I want human experimentation and let's do gene modification and sperm modification. You gotta be a little more twisted to start moving towards that world. Yes. Then you get into a ring of people that I would say is the hey, by the way, we have some fun on our island. You know, if you like girls. I'm not about kids. I'm talking about girls who are like 17. They're barely where they're not supposed to be. Or maybe they're 18. Or maybe they're 19. Right. And you get there and you don't even know the girls. Like 17 instead of 19.
- [25:35]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [25:36]
Ben Swann
Because that's also part of the 25,
- [25:38]
Danny Jones
and you would never know.
- [25:39]
Ben Swann
And that's part of the game.
- [25:40]
Danny Jones
Yes, 100%. And we don't know who fits in what circle either. We have no idea the limited hangout of the emails that we've gotten because we have, you know, for example, Elon Musk could be totally fudgeing innocent, but we have emails of him going back and forth, Epstein, about wanting to go to the island. We have no proof that he ever went. Does it seem like he went?
- [25:56]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [25:56]
Danny Jones
But like, there's, there's a, there's a huge gap there in our knowledge of who. Who fits in what part of that circle.
- [26:03]
Ben Swann
Well, and then we know that like the, the Commerce Secretary, Howard L. Right. We know that he lied. He went to the island. Lie he took his kids to the island. Yeah. But we don't know he did anything on the island. Right.
- [26:13]
Danny Jones
We didn't know he lying, but we know he lied about it. Right, exactly.
- [26:16]
Ben Swann
So that becomes a bigger problem. The bigger problem is that if you did nothing wrong, why'd you lie? Why'd you pretend that you never. You were never.
- [26:23]
Danny Jones
And why the. Does he still have a job? That's my question. Yeah.
- [26:26]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [26:26]
Danny Jones
How's that guy still the fucking commerce actor when he lived 10 steps away from Jeffrey Epstein and lied to fucking everybody in the most condescending, theatrical way on that stupid podcast, whatever that thing was called. Pod Save America or whatever?
- [26:38]
Ben Swann
Yeah, yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. Anyways, so then you have those. That circle, and there's a circle of men who I think were brought there. And. And they were. They were supposed to be honey trapped. Right. That's the whole point of it.
- [26:48]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [26:49]
Ben Swann
But then you have that kind of darkest circle, which is the very top one.
- [26:53]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [26:53]
Ben Swann
Which is the. So for very select people, there is a ritualistic, abusive element that's focused on very young, small children, in some cases kids as small as infants or babies. And it also seems to be tied into kind of a satanic belief. So there's like a satanic element to that. It's ritualistic. It's. And it's very focused on very young children. And it absolutely exists. It is absolutely within every power structure, it seems like. And there are people who are in those circles who are running around with lots of other powerful people who have no idea that they're in it.
- [27:42]
Danny Jones
Right, right.
- [27:42]
Ben Swann
So I think where we, where people make the mistake is you think, well, it's like. It's like the Illuminati, right? The people at the very, very top, they're all in on it. No, they're not all in on it. There's a very select group of people who are in on it. And those people believe that they are deriving power from this. They think it's giving them power over everyone else.
- [28:01]
Danny Jones
Where does this derive from? Where does this, where does this come from, this belief?
- [28:05]
Ben Swann
I, I think a lot of it comes from kind of a Satanic. A lot of people are now more familiar with this bell worship or BAAL worship that comes out of Canaanite and, and Hebrew theology. Yeah, I think it's related to that, but I think it's really just more of kind of like this, this satanic belief. And there's also a belief within those circles that there is. There is absolutely a God and there is a devil, and they absolutely believe in heaven and hell. But where. They seem to have a very different view when we think of heaven and hell versus how they view it. They view hell as a place that has hierarchy, and so they're not afraid of hell. They believe that if they are, they are sentenced to hell, that they will rule hell, that they'll be the elites within that society as well. That is part of that belief system.
- [29:00]
Danny Jones
It's just really hard for me to fathom how anyone could fall into that and believe something like that. You know, just from my perspective. And I, I always, I always wonder is that. Does all this crazy just come with the territory of being like a super billionaire who has leverage and is at like the very top tier of society and can basically, you know, you can get away with anything you want and just you have the entire world at your disposal. Because it kind of goes back in history. It goes pretty far back in history, down to like the Greco Roman period and like the, the, the Roman emperors doing very similar shit.
- [29:47]
Ben Swann
Yeah, I think it's. I think it's a very old spiritual problem. Yeah, I think it is a religious problem that is older than what we call religion today. Right. I think it transcends every generation. But I think there is a. And I, and I believe that there are very real. Like, there is very real Spiritual darkness in this world. And I think these people tap into it, and I think it's what. Some of what pulls them deeper and deeper into this stuff. Because you have to think about. It's one thing to kind of have weird or perverse tendencies, but when you're talking about things that involve, you know, children and babies, like, where does someone find that inside them? And then where does someone find it inside them to do this repeatedly? The other thing that I think is fascinating as I've. As I've viewed this world, trying to understand it and trying to piece together who's connected and where is that? We have a tendency, I think, to think about child predators, especially as, like, the lone weirdo in a basement someplace. Right. And they're sending files to somebody over here. Somebody. It was a comedian, and he was just. He was. He was making a joke, but he said, what's the deal with, like. Sounds like Jerry Seinfeld. What's the deal? What's the deal with, like, Epstein writing to everyone? It's like, dear billionaire friend, would you like to come to my island? And we're my children. And they're like, oh, Jeffrey, it sounds like a wonderful time. I'll bring so and so and so and so.
- [31:23]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [31:23]
Ben Swann
And they all share this information, and, like, they're incriminating themselves.
- [31:27]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [31:27]
Ben Swann
Why? Why do it this way? Well, in part, because part of Jeffrey Epstein's job was to incriminate you. It was to. It was to get you to admit certain things. But the other thing is, is that there is, again, there's a belief within this where at a certain level, they believe they have to involve other people with this. So they, at least at this highest circle, they do not believe, like, they're operating independently because this is like, their own, like, weird fetish. And I have this thing, and I'm so ashamed of it. They're not ashamed of it at all. They're actually very proud of it. And so they try to bring in other people, and they brag to each other. They brag about the age of the kid. They brag about what the child looked like. They brag about whether the child was terrified when certain things were happening. They describe this stuff in detail and almost to the point of trying to compete with each other. And so I think it's. If you're a normal person who doesn't ever have any inclination towards this world, it's so foreign that it's almost impossible to understand what they're doing.
- [32:33]
Danny Jones
It really is. Yeah, it really is. But those emails do seem to corroborate a lot of the original things that came out in the Pizzagate stuff.
- [32:40]
Ben Swann
Absolutely, absolutely. How about 911 times Jeffrey Epstein is writing to people about pizza.
- [32:45]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [32:45]
Ben Swann
And not one time is it actually have any of those emails have to do with an actual name of a pizza restaurant or pizza receipt or a specific order for pizza? Never that. It's. It's conversations with people that clearly when you read them, it's coded language. It's very clear that it's coded. Like, yeah.
- [33:06]
Danny Jones
And there was one specifically on. I know, I know that J mail. A lot of stuff's been pulled back on that. Like, they originally. We had access to all of it, I think, and then they pulled the. The DOJ somehow, like redacted more of it or somehow just they started behind the scenes, they started deleting them so the jmail wouldn't have access to them or whatever. But I remember one specifically where one of the girls was emailing another girl saying, oh, my go, great news, I hope you're sitting down, or whatever. Jeffrey wants to have pizza with you, and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I know you know what this means. Winky face. Winky face
- [33:41]
Ben Swann
literally says, I know you know what this means.
- [33:43]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [33:44]
Ben Swann
If somebody. If I send you an email and say, hey, I want to have pizza with you, I wouldn't have to follow it with I know you know what this means. Because I would think you would know it would mean, right. Pizza.
- [33:51]
Danny Jones
These days, everyone's talking about functional mushrooms like lion's mane, cordyceps, and Rishi. And recently, I went down a rabbit hole of one of the weirdest and most historically fascinating one on Earth. You've seen it before. It's the iconic red one with the white spots. And that's actually how I found Amantara. If you've looked into this space at all, you know there's a ton of sketchy products out there. What stood out to me about Amantara is how transparent they are. They do full lab testing, proper sourcing, and they actually educate people instead of throwing out random mystery blends. They've got a huge range, too. Gummies, capsules, teas, extracts, and the raw materials. Amantara has a ton of amazing natural products that can help you get into a more creative flow state, calm down when you're under stress, and be more in the moment when you're hanging out with friends or family. And I really like companies that approach this stuff responsibly without it being gimmicky or overhyped. What's cool right now is they just launched these beginner bundles. It's basically a curated starter pack for people who are new to this whole world. They're already discounted. But if you use my code DJ11, you'll receive an extra 11% off. On top of that, just go to amantara.comgo/djp Again, that's a M E n T a r a dot com. Go slash DJP and use the code DJ11. Going back to the original reporting that you did at the TV station, what happened after that thing aired?
- [35:21]
Ben Swann
So the next day came into work, the story blew up overnight. I think we had 3 million views in like 8 hours on it. And again today, that would be even easier to do. It was a lot harder to do that in, in 2016. Come in the next day, and they're freaking out. We're pulling the story down. We got to take it down. Wow, what's happened? And the network, CBS network was calling and freaking out. Podestas were calling, their lawyers were calling. Yeah, why would you guys put this on the air? How could you allow this to be out there? And so, you know, so the, the first accusation was that I had gone rogue and done this on my own. Nope. Here's the sign off from all these people. Everybody knew this story was coming like we did. Oh, and then, well, and at the time, I was running an independent project at the same time that I've been doing for about. I'm still doing it. So at the time, it had been six years. It's called the Truth and Media Project. So while I was working for cbs, I also had this independent work that was going on. And so then they jumped to that, well, well, you're not supposed to do this or this or this. And I'm like, nope, in my contract, I can do. I showed them everything. So basically they said, all right, here's the deal. So either we're going to give you an option, we're going to fire you, and you can sue us, and that'll take you forever to deal with that, or you can stay here working for us, but you have to turn off all your social media. And I thought it was a bizarre request. Like, so no Facebook, no YouTube, no X or Twitter. Right. None of it got turned all off, go dark completely. So I was like, well, I had five kids and a wife. And I was like, okay, right. What's. What's the point of even saying no to that? So I can do what? So we turned everything off. It was off for A year. And I continue to be their anchor. So a lot of people thought I was dead.
- [37:09]
Danny Jones
Oh, my God. I thought you were.
- [37:11]
Ben Swann
What happened? They killed him. But, no, I was still sitting on the nightly news in Atlanta every night, you know, 4, 5, 6, and 10. And. And my face was still on billboards in Atlanta, but the online world, it was like, he just gone.
- [37:27]
Danny Jones
That's so crazy. Yeah.
- [37:28]
Ben Swann
So I did that for a year, and then I had a chance through in 2018 because crypto had done so well. I had some guys who were fans who were part of a crypto project that had a marketing budget, and they said, hey, you want to bring back the stuff you were doing independently? And we can. We'll sponsor it. And I said, yeah, let's do it. So I went back after a year and said to my bosses, so you guys have been in violation of my contract for a year. So I'm starting to do this stuff again. Turning it back on. This is the day that I'm turning it back on. And they were like, okay, we'll think about it. And I walked out. They called, you're fired. Wow, dude. So that was my. That was my last stint in. In local. Last stint working for corporate media and just. I've done everything independent since.
- [38:06]
Danny Jones
Yeah, man. The attacks that people would get for covering this kind of stuff, it created this huge barrier between people where it's like, if you get anywhere close to even considering any of that crazy, like, to gate QAnon, any of that crap, it was just radioactive.
- [38:23]
Ben Swann
Yep.
- [38:24]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [38:24]
Ben Swann
And it.
- [38:25]
Danny Jones
And it wasn't that long ago, right. 10 years ago, roughly. And today it's just, like, the norm.
- [38:33]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [38:33]
Danny Jones
Like, this kind of stuff is no big deal. Like if. If Israel launched a nuke tomorrow and a UFO stopped it, like.
- [38:39]
Ben Swann
Like for dinner. Yeah.
- [38:41]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [38:42]
Ben Swann
Like, what is that? Right? And I think what that is, honestly, is that. Well, first of all, at the time, in 2016, again. So this was just the beginning of the attempted censorship model for social. So a couple things that happened to me that were very interesting was one, making me take all my stuff down, which told me at the time. Yeah, I was like, so this is even before Alex Jones got pulled from anything. Right. This happens to me. Oh, wow. It wasn't. It wasn't until two years later that Alex Jones was actually forced off of YouTube. So at that moment, I was like, okay, so there's something so powerful about what's happening with social and online communities. That's what they're scared of because they don't Care if you're sitting on. On TV every night. Right. They don't have any problem with that. Well, of course they don't, because nobody watches freaking local TV anyway. There's no influence. But online was where the influence was. The other thing that happened was.
- [39:36]
Danny Jones
What is this? Oh, is that.
- [39:39]
Ben Swann
Oh, that's it.
- [39:40]
Danny Jones
Is that top left?
- [39:40]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [39:44]
Danny Jones
What. What is this? Like, a screenshot of something?
- [39:47]
Ben Swann
This is. This is on Twitter.
- [39:48]
Danny Jones
Oh, my God.
- [39:49]
Ben Swann
What the.
- [39:49]
Danny Jones
Dude. Goats carrying cages with, like, baby dolls in there. Up. Look at.
- [39:58]
Ben Swann
Look at the. The top one up here with the children on the table.
- [40:01]
Danny Jones
Oh, my God.
- [40:04]
Ben Swann
So everything is these faceless. So there's a lot of these. These. These kind of, like, faceless images. And then, like, the little kids. There's a lot of those. You probably came across some with on the beds and stuff, right? Yeah, yeah, there's stuff where they're on beds and there's an adult up on top of one of the kids. Other kids are standing around the bed watching. Yes. Disgusting. It's. I mean, this is what they call art.
- [40:31]
Danny Jones
An oil painting on loan from his brother Tony shows two men holding knives and forks, leaning over a dining room table where a man in a suit lay. When asked about the paintings by Time magazine, John said, it's better to be a guy with a fork than a guy on the table. And it isn't a painting depicting surgery. It's depicting cannibalism. Crazy. Yeah.
- [40:56]
Ben Swann
I mean, it's a twisted. There's a twisted, twisted part to this. The other thing is there's a woman named. And you'll find a lot of her stuff. You've probably already seen it as you're. As you're going through that stuff, named Marina Abramovich, who is a performance artist. This is gonna be, by the way, great for your Patreon channel because. Yeah. So much of this is gonna have to get bleeped.
- [41:18]
Danny Jones
Yeah, yeah. For people on YouTube. I'm very, very sorry. There's gonna be lots of bleeps or muted areas of this podcast, but the full unedited version will be on Patreon.
- [41:27]
Ben Swann
There you go. So you need to go there to hear all. All this stuff. But, yeah, so she is a performance artist, and one of the things she does is something called spirit cooking. Have you heard of this?
- [41:36]
Danny Jones
No.
- [41:37]
Ben Swann
So spirit cooking is performance art using blood and semen, and you were drinking both blood and semen as part of this. It's spirit cooking. You're making this little mix. She does a lot of this stuff. A lot of her performance art involves images of children or depictions of children. Sexual abuse themes run through almost everything she does. Sexual abuse for adults as well. And then, like I said, a lot of the spare cooking stuff. So there's a lot of these spirit cooking conversations with John Podesta in the emails where she's inviting him to another spirit cooking event and come to this thing.
- [42:11]
Danny Jones
What?
- [42:12]
Ben Swann
Yeah, there's a lot of it. And so she's heavily tied into this as far as kind of representing, I think, for a lot of people, that kind of satanic element. Right. So her name goes away. And then it's so interesting because there is a direct connection all the way back into the Epstein stuff, which is that. So Epstein was very close to the little dictator over in Ukraine, Zelensky. They were very close.
- [42:39]
Danny Jones
Really?
- [42:39]
Ben Swann
Yeah. There's a bunch of emails between the two of them. They had lunch together multiple times. Epstein was very involved in Ukraine since 2014. He was very excited about the US led coup there. There wrote an email describing it as being very, very good for us and saying there were many, many possibilities that would take place because of the destabilization of Ukraine and the fact that the US Overthrew the leader there and installed their own guy when Zelinsky was running. He. He liked Zelinsky. He wrote an email to someone basically saying Zelinsky was an idiot and doesn't know anything, but that's why he would be easy to manipulate. Right. And then they had a lot of meetings together. Well, flash forward all the way to 2023. The war is going on between Russia and Ukraine. And while that war is going on, Zelensky invites performance artist Marina Abramovich to come to Ukraine and to become an ambassador. Not to Ukraine, an ambassador for Ukraine. And she's not even Ukrainian, she's Romanian. But he wanted her to come and be an ambassador for Ukraine. And you can't make this stuff up. Her specific area would be to be the ambassador for the children who were orphaned by this war. The spirit cooking artist who's all over the Pizzagate emails, who's all over this stuff talking about. And by the way, cannibalism is a huge part of her performance art too. There's pictures of her and Lady Gaga at some event where they have, like, a human body. Yep, there it is, lying in this thing and they're eating off of it.
- [44:17]
Danny Jones
What the. This is her. The Brahmovich girl did this.
- [44:20]
Ben Swann
So, yeah, so Abramovich is the one with the spoon and mouth next to Lady Gaga. What? That's her on the. On the right.
- [44:28]
Danny Jones
If you want to see this, we'll. We'll link it below for people. But this is insane.
- [44:34]
Ben Swann
It's insane.
- [44:35]
Danny Jones
Oh, my God. This is her artwork.
- [44:38]
Ben Swann
Yep.
- [44:41]
Danny Jones
Keep going down. Yeah, we can't show this or else we'll get this nuked off YouTube. Wow. I don't understand it. I don't understand. And you know what is really frustrating also, is when you see Hillary Clinton getting deposed in that recent deposition where they're questioning her about this stuff, and they're like, sorry, we're going to ask you a lot of questions about some stuff, like Pizzagate. And she's like, in this condescending tone, like, yes, I know you are. You guys are very weird for doing this, like, trying to, like, you know, play this weird psychological game with them as if, like, it's. It's the media's fault for being so crazy trying to ask her about these questions when you know it's her and these people in power that are, like, quite obviously guilty of something. I don't know what, but, like.
- [45:35]
Ben Swann
Correct.
- [45:36]
Danny Jones
There's. There's so much smoke. Where's the fire? You know, there definitely is a fire somewhere.
- [45:42]
Ben Swann
Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, when she was deposed about it and they asked her what was her belief about it, she said it's a disgusting theory that's been debunked. Right, right. John Podesta says it all the time, too. It's debunked. They love that word.
- [45:55]
Danny Jones
By who? Who debunked it?
- [45:57]
Ben Swann
Yeah, exactly. And. And what part of it was debunked? What specifically was.
- [46:01]
Danny Jones
The problem is all these people are lawyers, and they're just. They're just good at, like. Like, using words in. In a way. Just like that guy Todd Blanch did the other day with the Epstein stuff. They're. They're questioning about the Epstein files. Like, what do you mean by the Epstein files? Can you define the Epstein files? And I sent you a video of this the other day. It's like, it's just so infuriating how these people are so slick and have this way of just obfuscating the question and getting around it and not answering it. They're just like. Like, they're. It's just because they're so good at manipulating language.
- [46:35]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [46:36]
Danny Jones
And it's just so blatantly obvious what you're doing.
- [46:40]
Ben Swann
Well, it's like it goes all the way back to Bill Clinton. Remember?
- [46:42]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [46:42]
Ben Swann
He said it depends on what the definition of is is.
- [46:45]
Danny Jones
Yes, right. Exactly.
- [46:47]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [46:47]
Danny Jones
Play this. Play this clip. Steve, throw these on. You can hear it. I want to go on to the Epstein investigation. Is it closed or open?
- [46:58]
Ben Swann
When you say the Epstein investigation, what are you referring to? So, Senator?
- [47:01]
Danny Jones
Well, the FBI said in. In last year, in July, that it had closed the epine investigation. So I'm just using their words. Is it open or closed? I don't believe the FBI said that.
- [47:13]
Ben Swann
The. That That's.
- [47:14]
Danny Jones
Well, I mean, if you're referring.
- [47:14]
Ben Swann
You're.
- [47:15]
Danny Jones
You're head of the Department of Justice. Is the Epstein investigation open or closed?
- [47:18]
Ben Swann
But I. I guess I don't understand what Epstein investigation means.
- [47:21]
Danny Jones
I want to go on to the ep. I don't know what the Epstein investigation means.
- [47:25]
Ben Swann
Yeah, what is it actually? Fair question.
- [47:29]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [47:30]
Ben Swann
What is the Epstein investigation? Because we haven't investigated anything at this point.
- [47:33]
Danny Jones
Yeah, I just. I think it's crazy that it's legal. It's crazy that it's legal for, like, people to run for public office on one thing and then once they get in, completely do a 180. No, I feel like a lot of people feel betrayed by the Trump administration because he came in and his whole idea, just 30, 000 foot idea was to end corruption. It was drain the swamp.
- [48:01]
Ben Swann
Right. Yep.
- [48:02]
Danny Jones
And it was to prosecute all the crimes of people that did, you know, insider trading, whatever it may be just corruption in general secrecy. And it's just the complete opposite, man.
- [48:14]
Ben Swann
It is.
- [48:15]
Danny Jones
It like is the swamp. And that's why I feel like, you know, I feel a lot, not just me, a lot of people really feel betrayed.
- [48:20]
Ben Swann
Oh, yeah.
- [48:21]
Danny Jones
By all this, man.
- [48:22]
Ben Swann
I just, I just came down from Kentucky. I spent really covering the Thomas Massie primary. Interviewed Massey on Monday, day before, and then was. Was at his event. And you know, the guy he was running against, this Ed Gowering, it was just a who is that guy? Joke. He refused to debate 8 debates. He refused to debate even one time. Didn't do events. It was. It was just like Biden in 2020 when he's. He basically hid in the basement the whole time. That's what this guy did. He just hid in the basement. He didn't do anything. He's a horrible candidate. Massie made an interesting comment about him. He said, Ed Gowering is the first person I've ever heard. He said, most people will get into office like you just said, and they do a 180 on what they said they would do. He said, Ed Gowen's the first guy who's running for office saying, I won't do anything. I'll just do what I'm told. He's not making any campaign promises.
- [49:13]
Danny Jones
Well, he made one promise.
- [49:15]
Ben Swann
What was that?
- [49:16]
Danny Jones
To bring back the draft.
- [49:17]
Ben Swann
Yeah. He is talking about that, isn't he?
- [49:20]
Danny Jones
That's the one. That's the one thing I heard. Crazy is that I don't understand how this. It does feel like the 2020 thing, when Brian was in the basement, like this guy did nothing. And I think Massey's won. Every single time that he has won, it's been by like 70 to 80%.
- [49:33]
Ben Swann
Yep. And it was. You know, there's a lot of people saying online whether or not it was, you know, they were mailing ballots that came in, and there's all these. I don't know if it's true or not. I will tell you, just being on the ground, there's all the enthusiasm was for Massie. However, when I would talk to people who were door knockers, they were not terribly confident. They said, this is going to be tight. Because they said there are these boomers who sit in their house with Fox News running on their TV all day long, and they. And they'll just. And they'll say, I'm not voting for him. He's a terrible guy. He's a Democrat. And they're like, this guy's been your congressman for 10 years. 12 years.
- [50:12]
Danny Jones
He's funded by jihadists.
- [50:13]
Ben Swann
Yeah, yeah. He's taking money from Iran in Kentucky.
- [50:17]
Danny Jones
Yeah, yeah. The CH funding and a Kentucky congressman.
- [50:21]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Meanwhile. And they're always going to accuse you of the thing they're doing, Right?
- [50:24]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [50:24]
Ben Swann
Meanwhile, Israel is. Is. Is running this thing with $20 million, 25 million, 30, however much it ends up being at the end of it, you know, and it's three billionaires. Three billionaires basically were the ones who did all the funding. I just saw some crazy thing the other day where they were claiming that Massey was taking all of his money from super PACs. Massey's money did not come from super PACs. Massey's Money came from people donating $50 at a time. And he raised 15 million in that race. And when I. When we were at his. His concession speech, right. And I'm standing there and people are,
- [50:56]
Danny Jones
oh, you were there in the crowd?
- [50:57]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [50:58]
Danny Jones
Wow.
- [50:58]
Ben Swann
They were going nuts. Like, I've never seen a concession speech with that much enthusiasm. And they're just. And they're chanting out in 2028. They're chanting, President, run for president. I think he's actually gonna run. I think that based on what's happened with this race. It's so funny because Trump in 2020 Democrats spent the next four years just trying to wipe him off the face of the earth to make sure he would have no chance to run again. They actually made him a martyr.
- [51:23]
Danny Jones
They made him sympathetic, had us try sand effect.
- [51:25]
Ben Swann
They made people like him. Right. Maybe I didn't like him before, but now, like, you keep trying to destroy this guy, you try to bury him, you tried to kill him. So you start winning over people who are saying if they hate you that much, there must be something to do you. I feel like the exact same thing is happening right now with Thomas Massey. Yeah.
- [51:40]
Danny Jones
And I don't understand how the people that are funding the other guy, whatever his name is. What's his name?
- [51:46]
Ben Swann
Ed Gowen.
- [51:47]
Danny Jones
Ed, I don't understand how they can't foresee what the, what the third level domino effect of this is going to be and how people, especially young people, are going to react to this and how it's going to propel him even farther and it's going to have a huge streng effect where people are just going to resent, you know, the, the idea of a foreign lobby influencing America and they're becoming more aware of like all this with Israel and these fighting these stupid wars and bringing us into, you know, Iran and the whole Gaza thing and all that. And yeah, I just, I, I don't understand it. I don't understand how they could be so short sighted as to where this will play out in the next three years.
- [52:37]
Ben Swann
Well, part of the problem is that all the billionaires who are funding it are very, very old. So they don't really care what it looks like in three years. However, it's ironic because everything Trump touches, he elevates. Whether you like Trump or don't like him, he just has that effect and that includes bashing someone. So the more he has bashed Thomas Massie, the more famous he has made him. He's actually elevated his profile. You want to weaken Thomas Massie, you want to keep him so that he doesn't have an effect. It shouldn't have bothered him at all. Let him run his little piddly race in Kentucky's 4th congressional district. And yeah, you got this one annoying guy in Congress who keeps making noise, but you got 434 others that you can just basically override everything he's doing anyways. So do that. And instead they just want to go after this one guy to make an example of him. And I'm telling you, man, they have Raised his profile to the point where. Thomas Massey. I've known him since 2012 when I was working in Cincinnati. So I was an anchor in Cincinnati. And when he ran the first time, I interviewed him before he got elected. I interviewed him afterwards. I love the guy. I think he is like, like, totally legit. The stuff he says he's going to do. He's been doing that stuff for 14 years. He's exactly the same. I told him when I saw him, though, I said. He said, you got a little older. I said, man, you had a glow up. Because he was like. Had this, like, curly hair in the glasses.
- [54:01]
Danny Jones
Oh, yeah, yeah. He looked Kiki before.
- [54:02]
Ben Swann
Yeah, yeah. Somebody. Somebody says Thomas Massie went from being Harry Potter to Robert E. Lee.
- [54:09]
Danny Jones
That's so true.
- [54:10]
Ben Swann
He's got the. The trim beard now, and he looks fantastic, man. His. His wife's got him looking good.
- [54:16]
Danny Jones
She.
- [54:16]
Ben Swann
I. He said, she picked off this jacket. I said, she's doing good.
- [54:20]
Danny Jones
Yeah. Give him. Give him 12 more months. He's going to be jacked, dude.
- [54:23]
Ben Swann
He's gonna get a couple.
- [54:24]
Danny Jones
Get him on tea, couple tattoos. He's gonna start riding Harley.
- [54:28]
Ben Swann
Well, you know, he's got seven months in office.
- [54:30]
Danny Jones
Seven months left. Right?
- [54:31]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Because even though, you know, he was defeated. No, not really. Because he's got seven months where he can.
- [54:36]
Danny Jones
He.
- [54:36]
Ben Swann
He pointed out that it was the day of the election, was six months to the day of the Epstein Transparency Files. Transparency Act. He's like. And he listed all the different people from, you know, the World Economic Forum to Prince Andrew to the different ambassadors who have all been fired or arrested since the Epstein files came out. Yeah. And he says, and that was in six months. I still have seven to go. Right. But I believe that. That what Thomas Massie is recognizing is he's inheriting a sizable portion of that MAGA coalition. Now, if you listen to a lot of these online influencers, they're going to tell you, oh, mega's fine. Maga's maga's not fine. Maga, as it stands today is a boomer party is what it's become. You've lost the independence. You've lost the young men who turned out to vote. All those podcast listeners who listen to shows like yours who said, I'm gonna give this guy a shot. Right. Who don't even vote.
- [55:29]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [55:29]
Ben Swann
You've lost them. You've lost the Maha, the. The Make America Healthy Again Moms. That was a big part of that coalition. You've lost the Libertarians. That was a huge part of Your coalition, because they finally voted for Trump saying no more wars. At least he'll give us that right. Didn't give you that right. I would say at least a third of that coalition has no place to go. And they. They have now adopted Thomas Massie as their unofficial leader. And they're moving. Yeah. To him.
- [55:54]
Danny Jones
Yeah, totally. Totally. And how do you go from, like, again, like, back to what I was saying? How. How do you have, like, a real country when you can literally become the leader by saying, for example, I'm going to release all the Epstein files. And then when you get in saying, if you say, if you want to talk about Epstein, you're not maga, you're not maga. Whatever.
- [56:19]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [56:19]
Danny Jones
Like, it's okay for Republicans to talk about anything except for Epstein. Right. And the one guy who is. Won't shut up about Epstein and who wants to get all the Epstein files out and get the train, get them all transparent.
- [56:31]
Ben Swann
Yep.
- [56:32]
Danny Jones
That's the guy we're going to focus on. We're going to fucking take him out.
- [56:35]
Ben Swann
But again, the only way you're going to resolve that is you've got to get somebody who's willing to run and say, I will do this. And you got to be able to believe they will. So the problem is, is that now we're seeing. Because, you know, it was interesting, prior to 2024, everyone on the right said, release the Epstein files.
- [56:53]
Danny Jones
Yes. Now it's the most bipartisan story of my lifetime. Yeah.
- [56:57]
Ben Swann
And now you have all these people on the right who are like, oh, there's nothing to this story. Laura Loomer just put out a thing saying, it's a hoax.
- [57:03]
Danny Jones
I saw that.
- [57:04]
Ben Swann
Like, what part is a hoax? So Epstein wasn't real. There's no black book.
- [57:09]
Danny Jones
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- [58:32]
Ben Swann
you know the other thing that's interesting about Epstein, that because there is this effect of rewriting, like even recent history where what we know about about Jeffrey Epstein, he had home in Palm Beach. He had a home in New York. He had the island. Right. He had a home in New Mexico.
- [58:47]
Danny Jones
Mexico, yeah.
- [58:48]
Ben Swann
We know from documented pictures and the original case that was made against him in Palm beach all the way back in what, 2008, 2006, I think 2006, that Jeffrey Epstein, because his homes were raided, had in every single one of his homes. And again, we're flashing back in time 20 years. This is not a common thing. He had a media room in every single one of his homes filled with. And they're not flat screen TVs back then. They're right. They're like those fat tube TVs and they're mounted on the walls and he's got monitors everywhere and he's got cameras wired in every single room in his house. Again, 20, 26, most people have cameras all over their house if they want to have them. Right. And they're all connected by blue.
- [59:33]
Danny Jones
My grandma's got a ring doorbell.
- [59:35]
Ben Swann
Yeah, everyone has that stuff. Now, 20 years ago, nobody had. No, because that requires actually running wires through the entire house.
- [59:42]
Danny Jones
Right, right, right, right.
- [59:44]
Ben Swann
We also know that Epstein has storage units hidden all around the country.
- [59:50]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [59:51]
Ben Swann
What's in the storage units? You know what's in the storage units. It's all evidence. Because you don't have cameras set up all over your house that are recording, by the way, onto tape. Because 20 years ago, and even before that, 30 years ago, how long was he doing this? You're not recording on anything digital. These are recorded onto VHS tapes. These are recorded onto beta Tapes and those physical tapes are sitting someplace. And we know that he has storage units hidden. If he was doing this in some kind of way that had nothing to do with blackmail, he wouldn't hide them around the country. You'd put them close to home. You put them in your basement where you could access them if you needed them. Instead, he had them hidden all over the place. So, you know, I just, I tend to try to remind people of that, because when you start to get fed this vine, well, maybe it really is nothing. Maybe it wasn't what we thought it was. Remember the facts of what we know about this guy and the facts of what he was doing. He absolutely was a honey pot. And he has plenty of evidence on everyone.
- [60:50]
Danny Jones
Yeah, that's true. And there was even a New York Times article that had photos of his house in Palm beach and his house in New York and I think including the island. And it literally showed the cameras there.
- [61:00]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [61:01]
Danny Jones
And like, at some level, I'm like, if some of these politicians and these high level people are going to his houses, like Bill Clinton and, you know, Trump went to his townhouse in New York many, many times, according to, I think it was Virginia Giuffre said that. How are these people not seeing these cameras and not being aware of this stuff? Like, is there some level of, like, trust that's in the air where it's just like, okay, I'm here, like, let my hair down, let my guard down, and I'm not worried about this. But. And also, like, when presidents traveled, like, don't they bring like insane security detail that have to do, like, sweeps of the places before they go there and stuff like that, or when they even travel on planes and stuff. So I don't know.
- [61:49]
Ben Swann
Well, there's no way a sitting president was going into those properties. Because, yes, Secret Service, they weren't sitting
- [61:56]
Danny Jones
presidents at the time.
- [61:57]
Ben Swann
But like Clinton, their stories. And people forget this too. There are stories because he was on that Lolita Express plane dozens of times, somewhere like 30 or 40 times. Right. But what I thought was interesting, and I was reporting on this all the way back in like 2014. And even at that time, there were reports that the Secret Service who had worked with him would say that Bill Clinton would sign fake names to get on that manifest to get on the plane, and he would dodge his security detail to get on the Lolita Express. There were multiple reports all the way back then that. So, so this claim that, oh, the only time that Clinton was ever with him was when he went with Kevin Spacey. And they went to Africa and then they went on this trip and he went to the island a couple of times. He's all over that. That flight manifest for the Lolita Express. But again, according to the Secret Service, there are times he's signing someone else's name and he's dodging his detail and they have to go to the island separately from him in order to retrieve him.
- [62:51]
Danny Jones
And this is before or after he's president? This is after he's after he's president.
- [62:55]
Ben Swann
But now the retirement, as a former president, you still have that security detail with you?
- [63:00]
Danny Jones
That's bonkers.
- [63:02]
Ben Swann
Crazy.
- [63:02]
Danny Jones
What do you make of that recent story? I think this was. Might have been two weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago now, of the model who was the ex wife of the guy who's now, like, has some title in Trump's cabinet. He was a former model agency owner or something. Like this Italian dude.
- [63:21]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [63:21]
Danny Jones
Who came out and said something on Twitter and then Melania came out and made like a public statement.
- [63:25]
Ben Swann
Correct. Because she. The wife who was Melania's best friend, who. The report. The reports are that this friend was the one who introduced Melania to Jeffrey Epstein. Now. And. And the claim is Zampal.
- [63:38]
Danny Jones
Zampali. Zampalo was the guy's name.
- [63:40]
Ben Swann
It's something like that, yeah. And this, this his wife.
- [63:44]
Danny Jones
He.
- [63:44]
Ben Swann
I guess he got ICE to deport her.
- [63:47]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [63:48]
Ben Swann
So she was deported back in. She's back in Brazil.
- [63:51]
Danny Jones
Yep.
- [63:51]
Ben Swann
And then she said, I'm. I'm telling everything. So then apparently I felt like the. Apparently kid. Apparently. Apparently Melania didn't decide she's going to hold this press conference. And I heard from people in the White House who said nobody knew what she was going to say when she went out that day. They did.
- [64:10]
Danny Jones
Really?
- [64:11]
Ben Swann
Staff was not informed. So nobody knew what.
- [64:13]
Danny Jones
That met Yeaholi. This guy.
- [64:16]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Can you, can you pull up the picture of his wife again?
- [64:18]
Danny Jones
Why does a guy who's a former model agency owner have a. What's his title?
- [64:26]
Ben Swann
He is the. I believe that is it. Yeah.
- [64:29]
Danny Jones
Amanda Ungaro. That sounds right.
- [64:30]
Ben Swann
Yep. Yes. Yes. There she is. So she was a model with Melania together.
- [64:40]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [64:41]
Ben Swann
The story is, is that she introduced Melania to Alex Epstein and that the reason why Melania came out and gave this totally out of left field, bizarre press conference, and everybody's like, what are we talking? What's happening?
- [64:53]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [64:53]
Ben Swann
Was that because in it she says, I did not meet Donald through Jeffrey Epstein. I met him separately at some club. Remember? She gave like A whole bunch of explanation as to how she and Donald met each other. And they had nothing to do with Epstein and she didn't know Epstein. And there's all these pictures of her and Epstein together. Right? There's a lot of pictures of this.
- [65:13]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [65:14]
Ben Swann
So the claim is, is that when this woman was deported, Amanda was deported, she was like, I'm telling everything. Right. And that was why they.
- [65:23]
Danny Jones
Can you pull up her tweets if there's a screenshot of her tweet, like what she said? Because they were like, they were pretty sharp threats that she made of like destroying Melania with the information that she has got to be curious to see those and like, see like, like if they're still up or if she deleted him. I thought she might have maybe deleted
- [65:41]
Ben Swann
them or somebody did.
- [65:44]
Danny Jones
Or somebody did. I'm not sure. Some. Maybe somebody deleted her. I'd be pretty afraid.
- [65:47]
Ben Swann
I haven't heard anything from her.
- [65:49]
Danny Jones
Yeah, no, I don't think anybody has. But that guy, Paulo Zampoli, you know, he's come out and he's made some threats against people talking about him and stuff like that, saying that like his again, no self awareness with this guy. And he needs to find a new social media team. Whoever's posting on his ex account, but they made some sort of post was on his ex account saying that anyone that talks about him and Epstein is going to get some sort of like a lawsuit threat or whatever. He's trying to intimidate like journalists from talking about him. But good luck with that. Paulo and I talk to people too all the time about this. This is like people that are saying like, look, man, I'm tired of hearing about Epstein. I don't want to hear any more about this Epstein. It's. I'm, I'm over it. You guys have been beating it to death. So unfortunately, at some level they're. Whatever they're doing is working well.
- [66:41]
Ben Swann
So there is a tactic there, right?
- [66:42]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [66:42]
Ben Swann
And the tactic is we're going to put out like they did 3 million files.
- [66:45]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [66:46]
Ben Swann
We give you a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, we're gonna let everybody dig through this stuff. We're gonna let you make a big deal about it. Talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. But at a certain point, because they've held back. So interestingly, if you look at the Epstein files, half the files are out.3 million of 6 million. But only 2% of the data is out. So the amount of Data in those files, 98% is unreleased. Well, how can you do Half of it and only do 2%. That means of the half that's not released is video. Oh. And that's what they're not releasing. You release that stuff now, you got a whole different story. So one thing that's been very tactical about the way the Epstein files have been released is by just releasing emails and stuff.
- [67:30]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [67:30]
Ben Swann
There's some people who were interested in it and shocked by it. But if you hold back images where people don't ever have a mental picture, it goes away faster.
- [67:40]
Danny Jones
Yes, yes, that's very true. And also, wasn't there a huge chunk of missing emails from like 2000? What was it Covid? No, I thought it was 9 11.
- [67:54]
Ben Swann
That too.
- [67:54]
Danny Jones
Yeah. Like the year, but like the year leading up to 9 11. And like, and like a year after 911 there was like, there was a chart that came out that shows the dates of all the emails that were released. And there was a year gap right there.
- [68:06]
Ben Swann
Right. Nothing around 911.
- [68:08]
Danny Jones
All right, here's the Amanda Unaro tweet from March 9th or no, April 9th. Sorry. Hello, Melania. I was around you for 20 years. You knew I was inside ICE. And you know what hurts? After all this time, I stayed close to your family, your mother and your father. Not because of you, because of them at events and everything else. So shut your mouth when speaking about me. This is not. Oh. Because I will expose everything. I know. This must have been after Melania.
- [68:40]
Ben Swann
She had a couple like this.
- [68:41]
Danny Jones
Yeah, she must. I would be curious to see her first one. Yeah. And then there was the email with the Shadow Commission, the. Would you like to be on the 911 shadow commission? The Ghislaine email. You know, I wonder how much of that. Is it possible that any of that was like cherry picked and like thrown in there with certain things redacted to be like, okay, this will ratchet up the schizophrenia in people and like just drive people crazy because they dropped all that on us with no analysis. Right. If the FBI's had all this stuff for so long. Well, isn't it your job to like, give us a description of what your conclusion was to all of this and like what you've done about it or what you're gonna do about it?
- [69:29]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [69:29]
Danny Jones
Or like, what it. Who was he? What is your actual conclusion of who the guy was? But there was none of that.
- [69:36]
Ben Swann
Well, there wasn't because there wasn't an investigation. There were multiple investigations where they just gathered information. Right. But no one was building a case against him. And I think that's the primary problem with the Epstein case is that there is no actual case that was built. There was no case to say we believe he is X, Y, or Z. But again, go all the way back to 2006 and Alexander Acosta. Yes, right. Who was in the Trump administration the first time as the Labor Secretary.
- [70:05]
Danny Jones
Belongs to intelligence, is what he said, right?
- [70:06]
Ben Swann
Yeah, he said that he was told it belongs to intelligence. When he was trying to put him away, he was told, you need to stand down because he belongs to Intelligence.
- [70:14]
Danny Jones
What does that mean? Does that mean CIA?
- [70:18]
Ben Swann
So here's what I believe now, after all this, I believe that he was not CIA, nor was he Mossad. I think he was an equal opportunity kind of intelligence for hire where. Where they would come to him for specific people or wanted information on specific people, and he would just gather it. However, having said that, I think he worked independently enough that if you went through CIA files, you're not going to find, like, a contract for him. But I do believe CIA and Mossad were both funding him.
- [70:45]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [70:45]
Ben Swann
Right. But if they. If they do it off the books, then it's not a honey trap, because you're not. If you fund the guy who's bringing all the girls in and bringing all the powerful people in, then you're the one who's entrapping everybody. But if you kind of pay him through the back door and he's taking all this in, and now he's just a guy who has access, and I can give you information on people. But what's also interesting to me is that people will say, well, who's Epstein now? Who's the next Epstein? This is the next Epstein. Like, they don't. They don't need a honey trap anymore. We honey trap ourselves all day long because intelligence agencies and Mossad, CIA, NSA spend all day long going through our data. Right? We're creating the footprint. They can hear us on our phones, they can see us on our phones. They're able to watch everything that we're doing constantly. If they. If they want to track you and they want to find stuff on you, they don't need some guy to invite you to an island, right? Now, that doesn't mean that for certain powerful people, they don't still send certain assets in to influence them in a certain way or draw them into something in particular. But again, it's not like it used to be because we're constantly surveilled.
- [71:56]
Danny Jones
Yeah, that's true. And it's less of a liability. Suicide, murder, or still alive.
- [72:09]
Ben Swann
Okay, I'll tell you.
- [72:11]
Danny Jones
Want me to tell you where I, where I am first? Please. I think he's still alive.
- [72:13]
Ben Swann
Yep. Yep.
- [72:15]
Danny Jones
I would, I would say I'm 90% that he's still alive, 10% that he was killed. I was
- [72:25]
Ben Swann
99% he was killed
- [72:30]
Danny Jones
until
- [72:31]
Ben Swann
I met someone through the Pizzagate Stuff we're working on who says he is absolutely alive.
- [72:38]
Danny Jones
Really? And did this person have any evidence?
- [72:44]
Ben Swann
This person is giving me their belief based upon someone else who's very close to them. And the person who's very close to them would absolutely know.
- [72:59]
Danny Jones
Really?
- [73:02]
Ben Swann
So then I. Now I'm like completely unsure. So I, I went from being like 99 sure he's dead to now being like, if he's dead, then yeah. But Otherwise probably like 10 sure he's dead.
- [73:15]
Danny Jones
Well, why the FBI released the wrong footage of the wrong jail cell number one. And why I have an edit on it? Because the photo they released after he died was a different jail cell.
- [73:25]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [73:27]
Danny Jones
And why on his autopsy were they saying they examined his prostate?
- [73:33]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [73:34]
Danny Jones
When the guy didn't have a prostate and that was on paper, all there's evidence where he's talking to his doctor saying, I don't have a prostate.
- [73:40]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Well, and they, and they admit in again, in the Epstein files, you can find the, the emails where they admit that they, they did not roll his body out, that they put a bunch of boxes and things under a sheet and they wrote it out to trick the media. Right.
- [73:55]
Danny Jones
And why also on a Saturday morning when they wheel the body out of the back of the prison cell, is there a photographer ready to go?
- [74:04]
Ben Swann
Right, right, right.
- [74:06]
Danny Jones
Like, that's a slow. Isn't that one of the slowest news days of the week? A Saturday?
- [74:10]
Ben Swann
Now, in that case, if they, if he was dead and they thought that was there and you tip him off. Sure. But if you tip him off intentionally and say, hey, they're going to bring his body out, he's coming out this way. And then you put a bunch of boxes under a sheet and you roll the, the sheet out. I mean, that's just. I don't know, it's crazy. And you're right. The thing about releasing the wrong video and, and the, the wrong door and all that stuff and the video was, all the metadata was all wrong. I think that is a symbol of incompetency.
- [74:37]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [74:37]
Ben Swann
I don't think they did it because they were trying to like, trick us. I mean, not. Sorry, not trick us. I think they were. I don't think that they were so Clever that they were like, oh, we can put this out, and we'll, like, we'll play with their minds a little. I think they're stupid, and I think they put it out, not realizing that the average person can check the metadata and say, this is clearly not right.
- [74:55]
Danny Jones
Right. John told me that it would be extremely easy to create a body double and exfiltrate him out of that prison cell. And another crazy thing is another guy I know, who is a former CIA agent, got a hold of. He did a whole show on this with Discovery Channel, I think, where he actually got the blueprints, the public blueprints for that block of the prison.
- [75:27]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [75:27]
Danny Jones
And, like, how it was all laid out with, like, where all the concrete walls were, where all the doors were, all the plumbing and everything. And then he went somehow, like, he went super deep and got, like, the real blueprints or schematics of that prison, of the whole prison. And there's a part of his cell that are not on the public blueprints. So there's like. Like, imagine if you're looking at, like, this corner of this room right here from, like, from the end of that wall to, like, this tv. Imagine it's a square. Yeah. Now imagine Steven's desk is a wall that goes all the way to the ceiling. That's what the. Is on the real blueprints. So there's like a cut in, like, a quarter angle cut in, like, that. That goes all the way to the ceiling that. That encroaches into the room. And it's very weird. Like, what. Why is that on one part of the blueprints and not on the official blueprints? This weird cutout in the room. And then the other thing that he did was they built a replica of what his cell actually was because they had all the photos, they had all the dimensions from the blueprints. And between the room of the bunk bed and the wall, it's like, I don't know, maybe three and a half feet, something crazy. And they tried to simulate how they would hang themselves or do what. What Epstein did to himself with the exact. Like. They got everything down to a T with the exact cloth that he wrapped around his neck and everything. And, like, okay, if I'm gonna do this, and it's tied right here, I got this thing around my neck, and how am I gonna jump and do this to myself? They couldn't figure out how to do it without, like, smashing your head into the wall directly in front of the bunk and getting a huge contusion on your head. Yeah, but he had no head contusions at all.
- [77:15]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [77:16]
Danny Jones
It was just that.
- [77:16]
Ben Swann
That.
- [77:17]
Danny Jones
That neck thing. Yeah, on that. Yeah, on that autopsy. So. And this is a guy, this guy Andy, who did this thing. Andy Bustamante.
- [77:25]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [77:26]
Danny Jones
Two years ago. I talked to him. He thought Epstein was absolutely dead. He absolutely killed himself. He believed the narrative. He. He would argue with me about it. Like, Danny, you're. You're. You're crazy. He's definitely dead. Why would we lie about this? He wasn't in. Now he's done a full 180. Really? Like, this is a Occam's razor type dude who. Everything is Occam's razor for him. And now that he's actually, like, gone through all the evidence and like, gone to the work of reconstructing the cell, he's convinced that Epstein was exfiltrated out of there. So that's.
- [77:54]
Ben Swann
Yeah, I don't. I don't. Would not be surprised at all. At all. I mean, there are even little things like the fact that we have the pictures of that one body. They do have pictures of. And you can see his earlobe.
- [78:04]
Danny Jones
Oh, this is. This is crazy.
- [78:05]
Ben Swann
So this is the cutout he's talking about.
- [78:07]
Danny Jones
So this is. Yeah, look. So watch this. This is crazy. Crazy. Hopefully we don't get. What's it called? Copywritten for this hit. The.
- [78:15]
Ben Swann
Conducting my most in depth investigation yet,
- [78:19]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
Taking you inside a full scale replica
- [78:21]
Ben Swann
of Jeffrey Epstein's cell.
- [78:24]
Danny Jones
Oh, just like my old home where
- [78:26]
Ben Swann
I meet with a former inmate who was Epstein's closest friend inside.
- [78:30]
Danny Jones
I do know the last day that I watched Jeffrey Epstein, he really, really looked depressed.
- [78:36]
Ben Swann
I tracked down an Internet sleuth with shocking new details he discovered in cell block footage.
- [78:42]
Danny Jones
They say that that's what that orange
- [78:44]
Ben Swann
blob is, but I can prove to you that it's not the case. Then I'll bring in one of the top podcasters in the country who reveals another wild theory.
- [78:54]
Danny Jones
If you were to fake his death,
- [78:56]
Ben Swann
we'd get a body double and make
- [78:58]
Danny Jones
sure that everyone could see it, including the press.
- [79:01]
Ben Swann
And we'll meet with a leading forensic pathologist to help put all the pieces together. Have I seen multiple fractures in these structures?
- [79:09]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [79:09]
Ben Swann
Have I seen it in hanging? No. My goal, to answer the question, what really happened to Jeffrey Epstein in the early morning hours of August 10, 2019?
- [79:22]
Danny Jones
Dun, dun, dun.
- [79:24]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [79:25]
Danny Jones
You saw a little cutout in the room.
- [79:26]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [79:28]
Danny Jones
Crazy, man. What the hell is going on there?
- [79:30]
Ben Swann
Yeah, it's. It's. Again, I. I was not a believer in it. Now I am.
- [79:35]
Danny Jones
Have you met Palm Beach Pete?
- [79:37]
Ben Swann
I have not met him, but I've seen his stuff. My son's obsessed with Palm Beach Pete. He's. He was convinced for a while that Palm Beach Pete is actually Epstein's twin. Because, you know, he's a twin brother.
- [79:47]
Danny Jones
Oh, really?
- [79:48]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [79:50]
Danny Jones
Not Mark, Right? Mark Epstein. How many brothers?
- [79:53]
Ben Swann
He knows more about it than I do.
- [79:54]
Danny Jones
So he does have a brother, Mark Epstein, who's done some interviews and he, you know, he's one of the guys like, no, I saw his body. I was there.
- [80:01]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [80:01]
Danny Jones
And I confirmed that that was really his body.
- [80:03]
Ben Swann
But it's like, do we believe you?
- [80:05]
Danny Jones
Right, right. If I was. If that was my brother and I knew he was alive, I would also tell the public that he was really dead. So no one, like, it wouldn't.
- [80:11]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Like based on.
- [80:13]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [80:14]
Ben Swann
It's not like he's walking out. Like, I have pictures.
- [80:16]
Danny Jones
Right, right, exactly.
- [80:17]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Yeah.
- [80:19]
Danny Jones
Did you see the thing that just came out? I think it was a couple days ago about that Norwegian kid who. There was a couple who were. They were Norwegian diplomats that were connected to Epstein and Epstein gave their children $10 million in his living will.
- [80:37]
Ben Swann
Really?
- [80:37]
Danny Jones
And the kid's 25. Him and his twin sister each got $5 million in Epstein's will. And the 25 year old just killed himself last week.
- [80:44]
Ben Swann
Week what?
- [80:45]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [80:46]
Ben Swann
That's wild.
- [80:47]
Danny Jones
It's insane, dude. Like, there's a whole article about it, Steve, I send it to you, but it's just, you know, the amount of reach this guy had and like the fact that this makes it in the news makes me wonder how many stories like this, how many people are getting disappeared all around the world that we've never heard of and that will never hear.
- [81:09]
Ben Swann
Oh, absolutely.
- [81:09]
Danny Jones
You know.
- [81:10]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [81:11]
Danny Jones
Political Air 25, who was left $5 million, Jeffrey Epstein's will, kills himself just days after the investigation into his parents was launched. What day Was this published? May 1st.
- [81:21]
Ben Swann
Okay. And. But we don't know why he would leave them this money. There was nothing.
- [81:26]
Danny Jones
I don't know why. Yeah, I read it. I don't know. I don't think there's any explanation as to why he gave her the money. But that's the same amount of money he gave Ghislaine Maxwell too. Really? I think he gave her 10 million than as well.
- [81:37]
Ben Swann
Huh.
- [81:39]
Danny Jones
I don't know what's happening with her.
- [81:40]
Ben Swann
Well, and that's. Yeah, I was going to say, and the interesting thing about Ghislaine Maxwell is. So if there is no Epstein investigation, if the Epstein thing is all a hoax, what is she doing in prison? Why is she locked up?
- [81:50]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [81:51]
Ben Swann
You know, why. Why does the DOJ not cut her a deal or release her or why doesn't Trump pardon her? Like, if you are Trump saying this is all a hoax, this is all fake, none of this is real, why would you let this woman continue to sit in prison? Right?
- [82:04]
Danny Jones
That's a good question.
- [82:05]
Ben Swann
Right. Because she did nothing.
- [82:08]
Danny Jones
She seems to be playing ball. Right? Like, she hasn't given up anything. Like, it seems like she.
- [82:12]
Ben Swann
Oh, that's why she's still alive, I guess.
- [82:13]
Danny Jones
Seems like she really wants to do a deal.
- [82:16]
Ben Swann
But I think she's. She makes the argument too, that why? Why would you keep me locked up? Cash Patel said in front of Congress, he said under sworn testimony that Jeffrey Epstein did not traffic anyone to anyone. Anyone. He says nobody was trafficked. So if Jeffrey Epstein didn't traffic anyone, what is Ghis Maxwell doing in prison? And if you're the head of the FBI, wouldn't you. Wouldn't you make a move to get her released? Because she's in prison for trafficking.
- [82:46]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [82:46]
Ben Swann
Women.
- [82:47]
Danny Jones
Yes, exactly.
- [82:49]
Ben Swann
There's this, and this is where the whole thing just gets so convoluted. So when they'll. People like Todd Blanch will sit there and say, I'm not even sure what we're talking about. Well, I guess we're not because there isn't act actually an official position on anything. There's no official position on who Jeffrey Epstein was, what he did. Did he commit any crimes? Did he traffic anyone? Did he abuse anyone? Right. What did Ghislaine Maxwell do? What did Prince Andrew do? The interesting thing, too is that the only people who have been arrested are in other countries. So they have been arrested in the uk, they have been arrested in other countries, but not here. They've been forced out of their positions and jobs in these different places. Ambassadors and stuff. Nobody here. So we look crazy to the rest of the world?
- [83:34]
Danny Jones
Oh, yeah.
- [83:34]
Ben Swann
You know.
- [83:35]
Danny Jones
Oh, yeah.
- [83:35]
Ben Swann
And it's interesting to watch how that terminology. I don't know that I'm necessarily a fan of it, but the terminology. The Epstein class has become very representative of an entire group of people. I mean, especially in other parts of the world where they really. Do they view anyone who's powerful in America as part of the Epstein class. Anyone who's powerful in Western Europe as part of the Epstein class, you know. Yeah.
- [83:59]
Danny Jones
I think Tim Dillon said it best. The Other day, on his. One of his podcasts, I think his recent podcast, he was explaining this. He was commentating on the whole Trump going to China with all the CEOs. Yeah, it was like 17 CEOs or whatever. And he was. He was kind of joking because he's like. He's like, trump and the White House, they don't want to get in a fight with China. He's like, you look at his previous posturing towards China during the first term, and now all the nice things he's saying and how, like, polite he's being and all this stuff, he's like, they don't. They know better than to get in a fight with China. He goes, the United States used to be the high school quarterback who got the girls and was the bully. Now the United States is the weird kid who may have a gun.
- [84:52]
Ben Swann
Exactly what they are.
- [84:53]
Danny Jones
He's like, china is now the high school quarterback. Now our high school. High school quarterback looks like a mixed Asian with a white person. It's not. He's not fully Caucasian anymore.
- [85:06]
Ben Swann
It's so true. It's so true. We are definitely the weird kid with the gun.
- [85:09]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [85:10]
Ben Swann
Very unpredictable.
- [85:11]
Danny Jones
He's like, don't push him too hard
- [85:12]
Ben Swann
because you don't know what he's gonna do. He's like, crazy.
- [85:15]
Danny Jones
He's like, we're. We're on a decline, and they're trying to manage our decline so we don't lose control, so we don't lose our temper on the way down.
- [85:23]
Ben Swann
Yeah, yeah.
- [85:23]
Danny Jones
You know?
- [85:24]
Ben Swann
Yeah. I mean, she mentioned that in one of his speeches.
- [85:27]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [85:27]
Ben Swann
And I'll get the term wrong, but it's this. This concept of. And you might note the term, it's escaping me. Anyways. It's basically the term came out of. Of ancient Greece, where, you know, Sparta was on the decline, Athens was on the rise. The theory is, is that for any declining power, when they intersect with an emerging power, they ultimately have to go to war at some point. Right. And so what she was referencing when he was making his speech with Trump there was basically, we're trying to avoid this. This. This paradox that we're trying to avoid, which is where the declining power, the United States, is intersecting with the rising power, which is China. Do we have to. There it is. Yeah.
- [86:13]
Danny Jones
Thucydides trap.
- [86:14]
Ben Swann
Yep.
- [86:15]
Danny Jones
Interesting.
- [86:16]
Ben Swann
Yep. Lucidity's trap. And that's ultimately what. What the Chinese are trying to avoid. Well, by the way, thank God for that.
- [86:24]
Danny Jones
Yes. Thank God.
- [86:26]
Ben Swann
They don't feel like they need to go to war. With us in order to establish themselves. They're like, there's a way for us to continue to rise and for the US to continue to decline without it ever becoming. Yep. A war. And then of course, Trump's response to him referring to the US As a declining power was. He was talking about Biden. Biden. Is it, Is that what he was talking about?
- [86:47]
Danny Jones
Oh, my God.
- [86:49]
Ben Swann
Pretty sure. He wasn't pretty sure that the Chinese are looking at this war with Iran and they're thinking, well, this would be easier than we thought it would be. Yeah.
- [86:57]
Danny Jones
You know, and now they're meeting with the opposition party in what is, what is it? Taiwan?
- [87:04]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [87:04]
Danny Jones
And it seems like it's going to be. It seems like it's possible that it, when they take Taiwan, it won't be like a military takeover.
- [87:12]
Ben Swann
It may not be. It may just be a reunification.
- [87:13]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [87:14]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Taiwan seems to be moving in that direction at this point. And listen, if you're Taiwan, why wouldn't you. I mean, if you just watched what happened to the Gulf states that are sitting over there, who have been much more important to the United States than Taiwan, and we just let them get obliterated. All right. We haven't done anything to stop them getting hit. So. So much so that countries like Qatar and the UAE are like, we're not even going to be a part of OPEC anymore. We're backing out because this is a mess. This is, this is not working. The truth is, it's sad, but I think I've told people I believe that one of the things that this war reveals is what a scam the military industrial complex and military contractors have run on this country. Right. Where they charge us these ridiculous amounts of money for a single missile, for a single Patriot missile, a Thad, you know, missile radar detector. Those Thad radars are what, a billion dollars a piece? And there's seven of them. And now there's like two left because Iran destroyed them.
- [88:19]
Danny Jones
Yeah, with drones that cost, you know, $20,000, right?
- [88:22]
Ben Swann
Yeah, drones are 20 grand. We have a 600 million dollar radar plane. There's only seven of them in the world. There's now only six because they cut one in half with a drone. You know, and when you look at the economics of that, that it's like we are so far behind in terms of what we have in terms of military power. Yeah, look, we still have aircraft carriers more than anybody in the world. We have the largest air force in the world, and we have the second largest air force, the largest air force in the world is the US Air Force. The second largest air force in the world is the US Navy. Right. It's incredible. However, drones kind of render some of that useless.
- [89:01]
Danny Jones
Right, right.
- [89:02]
Ben Swann
You don't have to spend that kind of money on planes when you have swarms of drones everywhere. Right. So the, the Russians, the Chinese, the Iranians, as we just learned, are way ahead of us in terms of that technology. Cheaper. That's why Trump went to. He went to GM and Ford recently.
- [89:20]
Danny Jones
Yeah, I saw that.
- [89:21]
Ben Swann
And said, we want you to start manufacturing. Right. That the first time since World War.
- [89:26]
Danny Jones
And he's subsidizing them or what?
- [89:28]
Ben Swann
So no official statement has been made about what they would do. I think this was basically Trump poking the contractors because he's like, you're taking too long to create equipment and it's too expensive, so if you can't do it, we'll find somebody who can. Right. So, yeah, they would basically do contracts if that were the case. And it would probably be a great thing for American automakers to shift. My guess would be he's talking to them about shifting to drone production, which would make sense because what the Russia Ukraine war did was it showed the world a whole new battlefield. War has completely changed. Completely changed. And what we've done for the last 40 years is we keep investing in the same antiquated technology that we've always had. So go back to the first Persian Gulf war. Right. All the way back in, what, 1991. And we were very proud of the Patriot missiles. Here are the Patriots. And we were like, oh, my gosh. I grew up in El Paso and Fort Bliss was the home of the Patriot missile.
- [90:26]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [90:27]
Ben Swann
And it was like, we have this technology that we can stop anything. Well, at the time, that was true. In 1991, in 2026, that ain't true. And Iran just proved that. Right. What we do is we overwhelm you with missiles, and you got to shoot five or six Patriots to hit one.
- [90:43]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [90:44]
Ben Swann
You know, we send 30, 40 at a time. You're out of luck. You're out of luck. And that doesn't even take into account things like hyperspace. Right, Right. The Chinese have hypersonics, the Russians have hypersonics. You can't even detect them, they're moving so fast. So I think this war is a little bit of a wake up call that we're way behind. Talk about that declining power. And one reason we're declining power is because we have wasted so much treasure, $12 trillion over the past 40 years on these Middle east wars, if not more. And we, we haven't invested anything here at home. All that money could have been used here. Instead it's used over there. And for what? And instead, what other countries have done is they've quietly moved past us in terms of that. So you better believe that, that the Chinese are watching, the Russians are watching every single thing that happens in this war. And they're watching response times and how we respond. And yeah, even the fact that we have, yeah, we have all these aircraft carriers, but we won't get them anywhere near Iran because we're so afraid of them getting hit. Right, right. So what good is it?
- [91:47]
Danny Jones
And they're slowly developing their soft power, you know, and their economic power, like, what are we going to do with China? They, they give us 90 of our pharmaceuticals and our medical supplies and they own probably a majority of our debt. And, you know, it's, it's just crazy, man. And now we're talking about invading Cuba or this night. Castro's. Castro's brother. What is it?
- [92:14]
Ben Swann
Raul Castro.
- [92:14]
Danny Jones
Raul Castro, he's like 95 years old.
- [92:17]
Ben Swann
Yeah. So he'll probably be in chains by the time this airs. He'll be sitting right in a cell in New York.
- [92:23]
Danny Jones
Right? Yeah. That's one thing, that's one thing that people say about this is that like, maybe Trump saw what happened to Venezuela, how good it, how, how clean and quick and happened and thought maybe he could do this. And what you, which, you know, I don't think anyone knew. Everybody, everyone in the know, like the Joint Chiefs and the high level military people around him knew that this was not going to go down like that.
- [92:45]
Ben Swann
And they told him.
- [92:46]
Danny Jones
I don't. And they told him, they warned him that.
- [92:47]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [92:48]
Danny Jones
It's also important to be said that, like, even though it seems like we are really losing this war, it is pretty impressive, the operation that they did to rescue, rescue that downed Wizzo and that plane that crashed, that got shot down there. Like all the, all the, that they had to do to make that happen, like diverting and using the CIA to. They launched apparently like 150 planes, flew them to different parts of Iran to throw them off the trail to where they were going. And then they, they leaked that story about the murmur, the ghost murmur.
- [93:17]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [93:18]
Danny Jones
Which ended up being total.
- [93:20]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [93:20]
Danny Jones
It was a fake story that was leaked to the New York Post. And then Ratcliffe was like on the podium, like bragging about how, oh, yeah, we do this. We, you know, he didn't actually like, confirm the actual ghost murmur. He Tried to find a sly way to get around that, but the story just took off.
- [93:38]
Ben Swann
So I don't believe any of that.
- [93:40]
Danny Jones
You don't believe any of that?
- [93:41]
Ben Swann
Nope. Don't. I don't believe any of it. So here's. Here's what I believe happened. And we've actually reported on this kind of extensively. So this was not an operation to get a downed pilot. Would never happen this way. None of it makes any sense. I've interviewed multiple military guys who have said, absolutely not. So, for instance, you're not going to send in these. What were they? C130s. So they tried to land, and then they were too heavy because they were in the mud and they had to leave them behind. So they just blew them up instead. No. So what about a week before this happens, there are leaks coming out that Trump was presented with a plan by the Secretary of War and a few generals for how they could go in and they could grab the uranium, the enriched uranium from the Iranians. And so this stuff was already out there. I think the New York Times ran an article on it. There were a couple of others that ran articles on this plan. What it looked like, and the plan included, what they would do is they would fly in, they would have to construct a Runway somewhere in the desert, and then they would land these C130s. And they had all this equipment that they would bring out. They would blow open the area where this mountain, I guess, area where the uranium was kept underneath. They go in, they would bring it all back out. It was a crazy plan. So much so that when Trump was told about the plan, he said, the only thing that we're missing is Schwarzenegger to take off in a helicopter afterwards. Right. So cinematic and crazy, this whole. This whole concept. About a week later, all of a sudden, oh, there's this pilot who was downed. It just so happens that we have C130s in the area. It just so happens we have these Apaches in the area. And then the story is so crazy about this guy that supposedly this pilot, Right. Is downed. According to Trump's own words, the guy is bleeding. He hikes five miles and then climbs,
- [95:35]
Danny Jones
like, a huge cliff.
- [95:37]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Like 7,000ft or some crazy number. And then hides up there until they're able to extract him. And then once they extract him, because they got all their stuff stuck, they blew it all up and burned. It all doesn't make sense at all. Doesn't. What I have been told by multiple people is that they were trying to go in and get the enriched uranium, that was the original plan. They sent in these pilots around the area and they started getting hit. A Blackhawk, or. It's not actually a Blackhawk, it was. It's similar to a Blackhawk.
- [96:10]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [96:10]
Ben Swann
But two of them were hit in the air, and then there was another that was hit. One of those fighter jets was hit. So they were able to get out those guys out of there. But they. Again, everybody who has talked to me about it says this is not the way you would extract. It's way too many people, it's way too complicated, and it's all the wrong equipment. You would not really stuff in there. But if you're trying to go in and extract the uranium and you're trying to build a Runway in the desert and you're trying to land a giant C130 because you need to be able to carry the uranium out of there, then that's what you would do. So that's what I think it was. I think it was a disaster. And I, I will say this one thing about, about President Trump is he is very good at spinning anything into a victory.
- [96:52]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [96:53]
Ben Swann
And I think what they did was they said, look, we're not going to go out there and say we had a failed mission because that's going to make us look horrible. And it would have. And so instead they invented a story about this hero. By the way, have you ever seen him?
- [97:07]
Danny Jones
I've never seen him.
- [97:08]
Ben Swann
Him. No. Never brought him out in front of the cameras. Never said, here's the guy, by the way, with the injuries, the guy who climbed this cliff while he was bleeding and put out a beacon that only the CIA could hear, and they were able to track him from space. And we haven't seen any of them. We saw. We saw all the people who came back from their little trip around the moon. We've seen all those people. We haven't. But we haven't seen the pilot who was down in Iran.
- [97:34]
Danny Jones
See if you could find out anything about that pilot. I'm curious now, because I've never actually searched. Do we know his name even?
- [97:40]
Ben Swann
Nope. No name. Not that I, maybe I have not seen this. This pilot who was, who was down. Where is he? Because you would think this guy would be a national hero. You'd walk him around, say, this is the face of this great operation that we ran to rescue this guy because we leave no man behind. That was brilliant, by the way. It was a brilliant way to cover the story was we had somebody down and we leave no one behind. And so we went and we got him. Because. Because even when I'm seeing. Hearing the story and thinking it's all a lie, I'm still like, go get them, guys. Right? Because as an American, you're like, wow.
- [98:16]
Danny Jones
It fooled me, man. That, that's. That's pretty wild. And I think, I think. I don't know. Just this morning I was reading something that said that the. The new Supreme Leader is now saying, like, you, we're not letting you.
- [98:30]
Ben Swann
You.
- [98:30]
Danny Jones
We're going to keep all of our uranium, all of our Urich uranium, and we're not going to do anything.
- [98:35]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [98:36]
Danny Jones
It's just.
- [98:36]
Ben Swann
I mean, what can we do, right?
- [98:38]
Danny Jones
Right. I don't know.
- [98:39]
Ben Swann
This is. This is.
- [98:40]
Danny Jones
How many times is he going to threaten Armageddon?
- [98:42]
Ben Swann
Yeah, this is. This is exactly the problem. Do we have him?
- [98:46]
Danny Jones
The identities of the pilots and weapon systems officer have not been officially released by the US Military or the White House. To protect the service members and operational security, the US Sent subject command has strictly referred to the crew by their mission call signs. The pilot was Dude44 Alpha and the other guy was Dude44 Bravo. They made it all up.
- [99:10]
Ben Swann
It's. It's all fake.
- [99:11]
Danny Jones
It's a propaganda story.
- [99:13]
Ben Swann
But it was so well done. So I still have to be like, well done.
- [99:16]
Danny Jones
Damn it. He got me.
- [99:17]
Ben Swann
Yeah, yeah.
- [99:19]
Danny Jones
I had a guy on just the other day that was telling me the whole story behind it now, how amazing it was, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [99:24]
Ben Swann
Because the thing is, rather than having a great mission, they did come up with a great story. The story is a great story. But the other problem is too, is you're going to tell that story and no one in any kind of establishment media is ever going to say, this didn't happen. You'd be out of a job in five minutes. You hate America. It's like, I don't hate America. I love America. That's why I don't want us making up stories and I don't want us going and blowing up other countries and I don't want us faking stories stuff.
- [99:51]
Danny Jones
It's interesting how you were describing in the beginning of this podcast how when you're working at the local news stations, they kind of like feed you your stories, your prepackaged sort of stories that you're going to.
- [100:03]
Ben Swann
Anything on a national level, right. The local stuff you're still doing, like the city council stuff, house fires, car crashes, that's all local.
- [100:10]
Danny Jones
Got it, got it, got it. So I wonder on the national level, how much of that is going on like how, how many stories are getting fed to the national. A lot news sources by, I don't know, the government or whoever else who would.
- [100:27]
Ben Swann
Well, okay, so the way it works in a lot of newsrooms. Right. Is first of all, one of the big problems that I have with newsrooms is they already have a authority centric model, meaning if you get on the local level, there's a murder.
- [100:44]
Danny Jones
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- [101:06]
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Ben Swann
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Danny Jones
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- [101:31]
Ben Swann
Not available in all states. There is fire. The fire department releases a press release or the police department releases a press release. That is the authority on that story. If you're a reporter.
- [101:44]
Danny Jones
Okay.
- [101:44]
Ben Swann
Right. So nobody says, well, maybe this fire wasn't what they said it was. Right. You don't ever say that because the fire department sends you a press release. And what's happened in every single city in the entire country, every fire department has a press person, press secretary now. And 99.9% of the time they're former TV people. Right. Who didn't make very good money, got tired of those terrible hours of working in tv and so they go take one of these jobs working as a press secretary. And so they'll be the spokesperson for the police department. Spokesperson, the fire department. Okay. But they are authorities. Right. On whatever happens. So just a quick story. So when I was, I was working in El Paso was one of my first markets. And this is really where I learned to start questioning authority was. So we were. El Paso was right across the river from what is Mexico.
- [102:31]
Danny Jones
Yep.
- [102:31]
Ben Swann
Right. And so that's where I grew up. I was very fortunate to be on, on air in my hometown for 10 years. In 2007, 2008, there was a massive drug war happening in Mexico and it came to Juarez. And when it did, I mean, it was just, it was the most Dangerous city in the world at the time. More dangerous than Baghdad. Most dangerous city in the world for journalists.
- [102:52]
Danny Jones
Juarez.
- [102:53]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Tens of thousands of people being killed. Right.
- [102:59]
Danny Jones
Problem.
- [103:00]
Ben Swann
3 million people fled the city. I mean, it was. It was. It was insane, like how. How bonkers it was. And then people came back, but it was just. It was totally nuts. And that there was a claim at the time. So I used to go over every day to Mexico, right? Every morning I'd get a photographer because nobody wanted to go. It was way too dangerous. Get a photographer and these guys. And we get in the car and we drive across the river and literally, we drive across and there'd be, like, headlands, needless bodies hanging from the overpasses when you drive through. Yeah. Cartels are very creative in the way they kill people. It's all very showy. We would go to, like, you're talking
- [103:36]
Danny Jones
right over the border. You're seeing this. Yeah.
- [103:38]
Ben Swann
Like, you're. You cross over, you drive the first overpass, you got, like, dead bodies hanging from it. We went to a field one time where they had cut a. Killed a guy and cut his face off and sewn it to a soccer ball and thrown it out into a field full of kids playing soccer. Right? It was crazy. Went to a. A location where this woman had been butchered, and they cut her arms and legs off and her breasts off and scattered them all over this room. And it was. It was totally crazy. There was. In the 1990s, there was something called the Juarez Femicides, which was kind of famous. JLO made a movie about it. And the Femicides were about 300 women, over the course of 10 years, just disappeared in Juarez. They would work at these maquiladores, which are like these factories. They get on buses and they would go to work in the factories, and then just. They wouldn't come home. And so about. Over the course, about 10 years, about 300 women just went missing. Their families never knew what happened to them. There's a lot of questions today whether it was police who were doing it, whether it was, like, cartels that were doing it, serial killers. No one really knows to this day what happened to them. It was so violent in. In Juarez at that time that there were 3,000 women who went missing in one year. Not in. In 10 years. In one year, 3,000 women. And nobody talked about them at all because they were just being disappeared. There were so many dead bodies and waters. They just had mass graves where they would just. Just dig up the ground and just push the bodies in because they couldn't keep them in the morgues. You had like a week to come claim a body, and if you didn't, they just created mass graves. So it was. It was. It was wild. And I remember at the time in El Paso, there was a claim that, well, El Paso is the safest city in the country. None of that violence is coming here. Right. So there was a fire one night at a restaurant. It was a huge fire. And this place burns to the ground. And it just. It was so bizarre to me, the way it burned. They put out the press release and I'm meeting with our team and I'm like, no, there's something wrong with this story. Right. This restaurant just happened to burn down and, like, it just. It's completely gone and didn't believe it and was working on a story about it, meeting with sources and talking to people about it. And I finally had one guy from the fire department who met with me and he said, yeah, you're absolutely right. He said, so what we found when we went in there is they had drilled holes into the concrete on the roof. Roof. And they had put like C4 in it and they blew the building up. And that's why it went down like that. And I said, who? And he's like, I can't tell you that part, but we all knew who it was. And so that was happening in a bunch of different locations. But you were never allowed to report that because the official statement that came from the fire department was it was electrical fire.
- [106:15]
Danny Jones
So that was the cartels that were doing it.
- [106:17]
Ben Swann
Oh, absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Because they were making people pay them on this. On the US Side of the border too. Right. Because the cartel guys all live in the U. S. They don't live in Mexico. So they have a. They have a saying that you don't make war where you make your home.
- [106:31]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [106:32]
Ben Swann
So their kids, all the cartel guys, kids would go to school in El Paso. Right, Right. They. They lived in mansions on the US but then they fight the war on the Mexican side. Right. So anyways, the point being that you, you. It's all authoritative centric where you just, you go along with whatever this is. Well, if you, if you watch any national news, you'll see like a reporter will be talking about their sources in the Pentagon. Right.
- [106:55]
Danny Jones
They all have counterintuitive statement.
- [106:57]
Ben Swann
Right. Because the source is just feeding you whatever it is they want you to believe.
- [107:02]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [107:02]
Ben Swann
But if you're. If you're a reporter for Fox News or for CNN or for ABC and someone from the Pentagon calls you up and says, hey, hey, I'm going to tell you what's going on. We just had a guy who went down and we're going to get him, we're sending all this stuff and then we're going to pick him up, we're bringing this guy home. You're like, oh my gosh, I have the scoop. And you run back to your news desk, we got breaking news, this is happening, da, da, da. And you start doing the story. When it's all over with, are you going to turn around and say, by the way, that story was bullshit. Clearly that's not what happened? Right? No. Because then you'd never have a source again.
- [107:35]
Danny Jones
Right, Right.
- [107:36]
Ben Swann
You'd be out of a job, they'd never leak anything to you. But if you're their buddy and you all, you all drink together and you all hang out together, they're going to feed you whatever story fits. So all those sources will bring that stuff down. And then when CNN does it, Fox does it, whatever, they're sending it down to their local newsrooms. And now they, as the network are the authoritative source.
- [107:56]
Danny Jones
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, my God, it's so crazy. It's a perfect system for, for feeding them the people propaganda. You don't need to just have like fully control no news stations, like top down. It's just you make the sources.
- [108:10]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [108:10]
Danny Jones
Straight out of the government.
- [108:11]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [108:12]
Danny Jones
And not only that, but they also, the people, these four, these, these former intelligence people or these former Pentagon insiders also get like contracts with those news stations to be like the talking heads they go to on every topic.
- [108:27]
Ben Swann
Yeah. When people talk about like operation mockingbird. Yeah. You know where they're like, there was this program in the 70s and they were, were planting journalists. Yeah. They, that was absolutely true. You don't need to do it anymore because now they sit up there and they put their title CIA, CIA agent or former CIA analyst. Or you know, you got like John Brennan who was the head of the CIA. Right. Who for a long time. I'm not sure he still is, but for a long time he was working at CNN as an analyst. Right. The guy you mean who lied to congress about torture, the guy who spied on the cinema Senate members of the u. S. Senate illegally to find out if they knew about torture. Right, right. Is now your analysts to talk about these things on air? James Clapper, the guy who wanted, the
- [109:10]
Danny Jones
guy who wanted karaoke in prison.
- [109:11]
Ben Swann
Yeah, that's right. John Brennan.
- [109:13]
Danny Jones
Yeah, Clapper. Yeah.
- [109:14]
Ben Swann
He's another One Clapper is another one who also lied to Congress about the, the whole spying program that Edward Snowden revealed. Yeah, right. He went to, when he retired, he went to work at CNN. They're probably getting 3, 4 or 5 million dollars a year, year to sit up there and give their opinion, their analysis. By the way, all these same guys, all the people who signed the Russia collusion, all the same people, right? Against Trump. Yeah, yeah.
- [109:35]
Danny Jones
Also, like, how does nobody notice that Clapper and these people are the same people who are behind all these UFO stuff, these UFO files?
- [109:43]
Ben Swann
Yep.
- [109:43]
Danny Jones
Like Clapper now like he's, this is his deathbed confession. He wants to make right with the world and he wants to tell everyone the truth about UFO. UFOs. How the are we supposed to believe this? Well, people do.
- [109:55]
Ben Swann
But the, but the UFO thing is, is interesting. I'm interested to see what you think about it. What do you believe is happening with the ufo?
- [110:02]
Danny Jones
Oh my God, dude, I don't know. My opinion changes weekly with this stuff. It is just, it is such a cord, its nest of, it's so hard to parse through it, man. It really is. I, I feel like, you know, my gut tells me whatever Clapper and Brennan are attached to that they're telling us, I feel like that's not the truth or maybe it's only a small part of the truth, like a limited hangout to get us off the trail of whatever it is. My, my like high level view of, of the whole thing is a. The files that Trump just released was just a distraction. That's just, it's nice that it's finally like admitted by the public and admitted by the White House, by the government and it's on the White House website and like they finally admit this stuff's real because before we did know about that, but people were able to dismiss it and argue against it. Now you can't really. Now it's out there, but good job on their part of, you know, hanging a shiny object over here to get people distracted. My top level view of all of this stuff is that like, like I think that we do have that was either found in archaeological digs or recovered. And we've been trying to figure out how, how it works since the 50s. I think that there was an element of physics that we've been working on in the United States, physicists in the US have been working on since the 40s and 50s that that went underground and that I think aerospace companies have control of now. And I don't even think that they're giving full access to the US Military on this stuff. I think they've.
- [111:47]
Ben Swann
Who controls it?
- [111:47]
Danny Jones
I, I don't, I think it's, I think it's a combination of like Battelle Memorial Institute, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman. I think they all have a little bit of contractors control. Contractors control it.
- [111:59]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [112:00]
Danny Jones
Private contractors control this stuff because they have to keep it, it secret from foia. Right. You can't, you can't be able to FOIA this stuff. So that. I think that's one of the reasons they keep it locked away and they keep it very compartmentalized. Every, every, every little program, I think, which is probably in various different, underneath various different military contractors is very stove piped to where one person working on metallurgy is not going to see whoever's working on physics and propulsion. And above all of that, the people that can see everything that's really happening. I think there's maybe only like a dozen people alive that really know all that stuff. And I think those people are like maybe on the Epstein level or even above the Epstein level as far as like power and control. You know, I think those people are above government powers.
- [112:51]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [112:52]
Danny Jones
Those are the people that are really like pulling the strings of the presidents and the politicians and you know, and I think also if they have some sort of an alternative energy, those people are also invested in like oil and petroleum. So they don't want it to get out for multiple reasons.
- [113:11]
Ben Swann
Sure.
- [113:12]
Danny Jones
They don't want to disrupt other investments. And you know, if something like this really got out of the bag, it could like destabilize the whole entire world economy. Because if we have like a new zero point energy or some sort of a clean energy that where we won't have to rely on fossil fuels anymore or battery powered electric cars anymore, you know, a lot of the richest people in the world would no longer be that unless they could figure out a way to parlay into that first. Right before it became public.
- [113:43]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [113:44]
Danny Jones
But as far as like what the phenomena is, I don't know, man. A lot of people talk about like extraterrestrials and stuff like that. I don't know if it's that. I think it might be like some sort of a. The same way there's naked people living in the Amazon right now with spears. There's people that are like flying around in jets from Paris to New York in like two hours. I think that can also exist. I think at some level we are the people that are throwing around spears in the rainforest and there's another layer of, of civilization that could still be here that we just don't interact with or don't see. Maybe they're in the oceans or maybe they're. Who knows? Who knows? We. We don't really. I don't think we're really equipped to comprehend that yet, but I think it's totally possible.
- [114:29]
Ben Swann
Yeah, I think that's. I think that's possible. I think first of all, the. What they've released so far, I think they're releasing it in a specific way, in a strategic way way. So I agree with you. They've released nothing. They've released stuff we've already seen, we already know. Right. It's nothing. What I was told is that it's happening in phases and that with each phase there's going to be more that comes out and at a certain point, we'll see if it happens at a certain point that they're going to acknowledge the existence of what they call non human entities. So they don't call them extraterrestrials, they don't call them interdimensional, but they're calling them non human entities. Entities. And that these non human entities, they're going to acknowledge that they are here and they're already among us. And that's what I think members of Congress keep alluding to. So people like Tim Burchett.
- [115:17]
Danny Jones
Yeah. Polina Luna.
- [115:19]
Ben Swann
Yeah. They keep talking about, like, stuff they've seen. There's a reason they're being allowed to say this. So they're priming the public for the idea that this is coming. Now. Burchett has said stuff about like a breeding program. Matt Gaetz said something about being briefed on a breeding program. I don't know if that's true or not true. What I'm saying is 20 years ago or 30 years ago, if you were a member of Congress and you went on television and you said these things exist and we are being briefed on them, you'd be dead. You would not be allowed to do that. The only reason you're doing it now is they're letting you be the ones who are priming the public so that by the time it happened, there is not a shock factor associated with it. To your point, at a certain point you'd say, oh, they fired a nuke and it got intercepted by a ufo. And people were like, okay. And they go back to Fortnite and it's like they're just paying attention. But if you, if you prepare people by repeating this stuff over and over, you're you're taking away some of that, some of that shock value.
- [116:17]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [116:17]
Ben Swann
You know, and I think, I think that's definitely happening, but I think I do believe they're going to announce at some point, point that non human entities are here. There is a group of people, I have been told who are in high level. They're not actually in government. They're like advisors to the government who have been pushing this a long time and they see it as like, they believe these are like the old gods. They believe that that's who these, these entities are. And so they're pushing towards that. So it's almost like a quasi religious view of these things. No idea how that will all play out. I just saw something the other day that Trump supposedly was, is close to announcing the existence of those non human entities.
- [117:01]
Danny Jones
Well, he doesn't seem interested in this stuff.
- [117:03]
Ben Swann
Not at all in the least bit.
- [117:05]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [117:06]
Ben Swann
I think Trump thinks he's the highest life form.
- [117:08]
Danny Jones
I think he either it's possible he is one of them.
- [117:14]
Ben Swann
Even if he's not, he'll come out and click that he is. He'll be telling everyone that actually I'm, I'm one of them.
- [117:22]
Danny Jones
He. Well, he released that photo of himself walking through the private airport or whatever with a alien in handcuffs the other day. Did you see that? Find the Truth Social post? Trump posted a photo of himself. Obviously it was AI I think, or Photoshop of him and his security guards walking with an alien. And I don't know what the cap. I don't know what the capture was. What's that?
- [117:45]
Ben Swann
It's better than him being Jesus, right?
- [117:47]
Danny Jones
Yes. Well, I heard there was this. I heard through my primary source of news, Tim Dillon, that. Oh, there it is.
- [117:55]
Ben Swann
There it is.
- [117:56]
Danny Jones
I think he, he shared this, right? Yeah. Trump shares image with restrained alien figure.
- [118:06]
Ben Swann
I mean, you gotta, you gotta give his team some credit. I mean they, they keep it interesting. This is the most interesting administration in history.
- [118:13]
Danny Jones
Yeah, it's, it's definitely good for press, that's for sure. There's not, there's not a, not a single dull moment.
- [118:20]
Ben Swann
Space Force
- [118:23]
Danny Jones
Tim Dillon was saying that. I don't know where he got this, but apparently there was a plan in the white. There was a plan for the government to come out and say a, there is no God and B, we were engineered by aliens. And then like last minute they scrapped it. Like, that's not a good idea. Let's not do that.
- [118:42]
Ben Swann
Okay. So I, that's what I was hearing also.
- [118:44]
Danny Jones
Oh, really?
- [118:45]
Ben Swann
Yes, that, that, that the concept is this, that the Bible is not true, that the whole Jesus is a myth, and that these things are the old gods and that they're the ones who have created all life.
- [118:58]
Danny Jones
Jeez.
- [118:59]
Ben Swann
And that it's pushed by this group of people who are like, they, they are believers in, in this, but they are like, the foremost ones who are advising on this alien stuff. And that's what this, this whole Disclosure thing. And by the way, it's not a coincidence that Steven Spielberg has a movie called Disclosure.
- [119:15]
Danny Jones
It's coming out any day now.
- [119:16]
Ben Swann
Yeah, it's coming out in June.
- [119:17]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [119:18]
Ben Swann
And they're. This movie is timed for a reason along with all this stuff that's fishy.
- [119:24]
Danny Jones
That's very fishy that it's coming out coinciding with all of this stuff.
- [119:29]
Ben Swann
So I'm. What I'm fascinated by is what is, is that movie? What is the message of that movie? Because once you told that message, I would be willing to bet you that the official line from the government is very similar to whatever is in this movie.
- [119:45]
Danny Jones
Yes. Yes, you nailed that. Also, it doesn't really fit with the war narrative because the whole war narrative is being pushed by, like, religious ideologies. Right. Like, they were. There was the, the whistleblowers, the military whistleblowers came out. There was like seven of them who said that their, their commanders were telling them that Trump was anointed by Christ to bring the second coming of Christ or to bring in the messianic age. So, like.
- [120:09]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [120:10]
Danny Jones
So if the government is talking out of one side of its mouth saying, there's no God, we were engineered by aliens, and the other side, we need to do this war with Iran.
- [120:16]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [120:17]
Danny Jones
To, for, to bring back Jesus or whatever their excuse is.
- [120:21]
Ben Swann
Well, again, it's a very big government. Right. And then in that case, those, what those commanders were doing wasn't necessarily the, the, the line coming down from the White House. This is just their own religious zeal. Yeah. Where they view this as like a holy war, which, again, is, is pretty crazy because you have to understand there's like 5 million Christians in Iran. So people, people don't realize that there's a massive Christian population in Iran that lives and coexists with. So again, if you, if you watch Fox News all day, you would believe that there's no Christians anywhere at all down there. Right. Just like you would believe that the only religious, the only good religious people in the entire Middle east are in Israel. Right. Those are God's people. When in fact, Israel is destroying Southern Lebanon, which is the most Christian country left inside of all of the Middle East. Right. You know.
- [121:11]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [121:12]
Ben Swann
They have a Christian president. You're not even allowed to know that if you're watching national news.
- [121:17]
Danny Jones
Their president's actually Christian.
- [121:18]
Ben Swann
Their president a Christian. Their president is using money from that country. Right. Which is majority Muslim, to preserve and take care of the Christian heritage sites like the. The tomb of Simon Peter or like the location where the wedding at Cana Miracle where Jesus turns water into wine. That's in southern Lebanon. Right. Some of the earliest churches are in southern Lebanon, just like the earliest churches were in Syria. But. But when Israel goes in there with the US and funds the Al Qaeda and ISIS guys who end up destroying Syria and forcing out Assad, they lay all that waste, all that. Israel has now flattened all these religious, Christian religious sites in southern Lebanon. They're not there anymore. They completely did away with them. And that's not by accident. That's all by design. But what's so sickening about that is you have all these evangelical pastors in the United States who are just cheering it on. And it's like, my Christian theology does not fit with the idea that Jesus is on the side of the modern state of Israel over Christian people living in Lebanon. That makes no sense at all. And I'm like, please, I defy any pastor, Any pastor to stand up in front of their congregation and explain how that works. How is it that God's like, I'm good with you killing all the Christians. Christians who are in these places because Israel, like, what? That makes no sense at all.
- [122:46]
Danny Jones
Is this somehow by design?
- [122:48]
Ben Swann
Like, it's all by design.
- [122:49]
Danny Jones
Is this somehow like a. A crazy way to just diffuse. Diffuse the populace by just creating so much chatter and so much noise that there's no way for people to become cohesive on one thing, to come together on one thing? Right.
- [123:16]
Ben Swann
So I've become a firm believer that there is. It is all by design. It is just not by the same designers. Meaning there is not a singular objective.
- [123:29]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [123:29]
Ben Swann
It is multiple groups with their own objectives who work. Work in parallel to each other because they're getting what they want. So I don't think the UFO stuff has any tie to what's going on in Iran. No, I. Actually, my theory is, I believe that Israel pushed us into the war with Iran. I think that's pretty clear if you listen to Rubio and you listen to people within the administration. But I don't believe they did it because they wanted to take out Iran. I believe they did it because they wanted southern Lebanon, and so they got the US to go fight a war over there in Iran because it didn't matter if they could win it or not win it, didn't matter if the mullahs are out. It doesn't matter if you, you know, get rid of the Ayatollah or you replace a Khomeini with a Khomeini. It doesn't matter to them because that wasn't their actual objective. The actual objective was distract over here while this thing's going on and it absorbs all the headlines, because within a week of that war starting, they move into southern Lebanon and just like, lay waste, flatten the whole thing. You blow up all the bridges in the Latani river, which connects northern and southern Lebanon, and they've complet. They've already started construction. They've already started construction in Lebanon, rebuilding it into now an Israeli settlement as part of Greater Israel. Meanwhile, while the war in Iran's going on, Netanyahu has said multiple times, if there are ground troops, we are not supplying any of them. Right, right. They're not going to be ground troops because Trump's not to. Going. Going to get stuck in that because, you know, he. As much as he's gone along with this stuff, he's not going to do that. It's too stupid. And it's, It's. It doesn't work. And I just. It's not going to happen. But I don't think that was the point. The point for Netanyahu, the point for the Israelis is they. They didn't think that, yeah, you might weaken Iran some, but the goal is you create this gigantic, gigantic volume of noise. Yeah. Because they couldn't just go into southern Lebanon the way they did Gaza because the whole world's still screaming about Gaza. Gaza, by the way, the whole world's still screaming about Gaza and not about southern Lebanon.
- [125:26]
Danny Jones
That's true.
- [125:27]
Ben Swann
Very little conversation about what's happened in Lebanon. So I think that would be one example of, like, parallel moments of grabbing power. The UFO guys, I think, are their own group.
- [125:39]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [125:39]
Ben Swann
Who have their own, as I said, religious view that are pushing to see that happen. And so these different things are happening simultaneously. As long as we're all moving in the same direction together, get what we ultimately want. I think we saw a lot of that with COVID Right. With COVID it wasn't that there was one puppet master pulling the strings. It was like the. Who has its own agenda and Bill Gates has his own agenda and fauci has his own agenda, and these different pharmaceutical companies have their own agenda. And as long as we don't step on each other's profit model, we can all move in the same direction. But everyone's kind of doing their own thing while simultaneously running parallel.
- [126:16]
Danny Jones
Yeah, Yeah, I think you're totally right about that, man. Where do you think the mind is of, of Russia in all of this stuff? You and John, you and John are both former RT contributors?
- [126:30]
Ben Swann
Yep, Absolutely.
- [126:32]
Danny Jones
I don't. That probably doesn't mean that you have any kind of insider knowledge or whatever.
- [126:37]
Ben Swann
No, we just create content and give it to them. Right. They run it. Yeah.
- [126:40]
Danny Jones
Right. And John famously defended that, that amazingly on this podcast we had the debate with him and this other guy, this other CIA guy who was like, why would you, as a, as a, a former CIA agent who came to protect this country, who dedicated your life to protecting the United States of America, go work for Russian state media.
- [127:00]
Ben Swann
Yeah. And John. And John said, they put me in prison.
- [127:04]
Danny Jones
Exactly. They put me in prison. He's like, that is exactly why I call out the American government.
- [127:10]
Ben Swann
Yeah, yeah.
- [127:11]
Danny Jones
You know, it's amazing.
- [127:12]
Ben Swann
Like.
- [127:12]
Danny Jones
And they never told him what to say.
- [127:14]
Ben Swann
No.
- [127:14]
Danny Jones
Report on whatever he wanted every single day.
- [127:16]
Ben Swann
Let me tell you, I, I worked, I told you, with FOX and CBS and NBC. I've been in this career for 25 years. I have never had the kind of journalistic freedom as I have had with rt. They do not tell you what to talk about at all. And if the funny thing is, in the US there's like such a stigma around it. But RT is actually like the number one or number two cable channel in most of the world.
- [127:41]
Danny Jones
Really?
- [127:42]
Ben Swann
Yeah. They serve 800 million people. They have a massive audience.
- [127:47]
Danny Jones
Wow.
- [127:47]
Ben Swann
Yeah. And if you, and if you were part of the, the.
- [127:51]
Danny Jones
So it's basically the Russian version of cnn. Cnn. But no, what was the other, what was, what's the other like state sanctioned American news?
- [128:01]
Ben Swann
Oh, npr? No, Voice of America.
- [128:03]
Danny Jones
Voice of America. That's what it was.
- [128:05]
Ben Swann
Well, yes, except Voice of America's. Terrible. Terrible. Right. Honestly, it's awful. Yeah, it really is. Or I, I would, you know, I say they were closer to, is the BBC, which is also state funded.
- [128:17]
Danny Jones
Oh, okay.
- [128:17]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [128:19]
Danny Jones
Oh, okay.
- [128:19]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [128:20]
Danny Jones
So it's basically the BBC of Russia.
- [128:22]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Okay. So the, you know, and they're all over the world. They have, they have Spanish language, they have Arabic language. They're in China. In fact, I was told that when Trump and his crew were all in, in China, they were all Watching rt because it was the only one in English really you could watch. Yeah.
- [128:37]
Danny Jones
Oh my God.
- [128:39]
Ben Swann
So yeah, I've worked with them for a long time and, and did you
- [128:42]
Danny Jones
do a big documentary on Zielinski or something?
- [128:44]
Ben Swann
Yep, I did. That guy is unbelievable. Unbelievable. We did. It was a docu series, 10 parts, looking at how unbelievably corrupt he is. And, and that was a couple years ago. Like it's gotten a lot worse, right?
- [128:58]
Danny Jones
Well, especially as the Epstein stuff came out and you learned all that.
- [129:00]
Ben Swann
The Epstein stuff. But even just like the day to day on the ground there, like, you know, one thing we didn't really talk about because it wasn't happening at the time, they have no soldiers. Right. There's just nobody left to fight this war. And so for the last two years they have these conscription soldiers who go around Ukraine and they just drag men off the streets and throw them into vans and off they go. And like, you can search this, there's videos of it all over the Internet. Never gets any play in our media here. And it doesn't for a reason, because we are funding this. We're literally funding the extermination. This is going to sound very like, you know, white nationalist of me, but. The extermination of the white male population in Ukraine, Zelensky. They extended down the age in which you could be recruited. They extended up the age in which you can be recruited. They had special ed kids being dragged and thrown into these things.
- [129:53]
Danny Jones
What?
- [129:54]
Ben Swann
Yeah, you can find these videos where, where like women are trying to fight them off. And there's a guy recently, I just saw last week where he's running on his roof trying to get away from them. They drag him off the roof, they throw him in these vans. They take them. So Zelinsky doesn't have any bodies left, so now he's on a tour around Europe. He was just in Germany and he's demanding because. Okay, so when the war starts, people flee. Right? Number one country in the world to take Ukrainian refugees. Take a guess.
- [130:20]
Danny Jones
Number one country in the world to take Ukrainian refugees. America.
- [130:26]
Ben Swann
No, think geographically. Poland would be number two. Germany is number three.
- [130:35]
Danny Jones
Who's number one?
- [130:36]
Ben Swann
Russia. What? Yeah. Because what our media refuses to acknowledge is that eastern Ukraine is ethnically Russian. They fly Russian flags, they speak Russian.
- [130:47]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [130:47]
Ben Swann
And that eastern part of Ukraine, that is the, the, you know, central axis
- [130:52]
Danny Jones
of this Dunas area.
- [130:54]
Ben Swann
Yes, the Dunas and Crimea. Those people have been in a civil war. See, this is video of them just getting these people. They go to restaurants they go to nightclubs and they just drag men away.
- [131:05]
Danny Jones
Wow.
- [131:06]
Ben Swann
I mean, imagine this happening in the United States. You were talking earlier about the draft thing. Y. I mean, this is what they do. They just come get these guys and they just take them. They put him in a van, they take him to the front lines.
- [131:24]
Danny Jones
It would get unreal.
- [131:26]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [131:26]
Danny Jones
It would get real for us very quick if they started, look at this poor guy.
- [131:32]
Ben Swann
Just take him away.
- [131:33]
Danny Jones
That guy doesn't even look that young.
- [131:34]
Ben Swann
No, they're not that young. The average age right now of the Ukrainian soldiers is 45 years old because they killed off all the young ones.
- [131:43]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [131:44]
Ben Swann
So now you're like, dragging away these older guys and it's. And the crazy thing about this is that Zelinsky is now going around Europe because, like I said, the majority went into Russia, and then, you know, about half of them and the rest went to Poland and Germany. So now he's going around Europe and he's saying, send them back. Like, he wants. He wants the men, the young men who escaped, to be forcibly sent back by other European governments to force them to go for fight.
- [132:10]
Danny Jones
Wow.
- [132:10]
Ben Swann
A war they cannot win. There's. It's impossible. They have no ability to win this war. But they're like, he's throwing him into a wood chipper and he's just getting rid of it.
- [132:19]
Danny Jones
Oh.
- [132:20]
Ben Swann
And now he just made a statement the other day that in order to. Because they. Now they need workers in order to replace that population that has died during the war at his hand. He wants to bring up men from Africa, migrant workers from Africa, and bring them into. To Ukraine to replace the population that's been killed off from the war.
- [132:43]
Danny Jones
So that's bananas.
- [132:45]
Ben Swann
It's crazy, and it's happening, like, in real time, and no one says a damn thing about it right now.
- [132:52]
Danny Jones
What is Russia doing, though? Like, as far as their fighters, I heard they were emptying prisons, giving people the option to leave prison to go fight.
- [132:59]
Ben Swann
That may be true. I've not heard that, but I would not be surprised if that were true. I know that Russia has not suffered. So our media has really lied about the. The Russian losses. And I base that not on anything the Russians say. I base that on the bodies when they're returned. So what they'll do is they do these body swaps where. And they do them about a couple times a month. And the Russians bring all the dead bodies that are Ukrainian, and the Ukrainians bring all the dead bodies that are Russians, and then they swap and they take them away. To go bury their dead. Oh, wow. And they'll swap up 100 Russians for 6,000 Ukrainians, 10,000 Ukrainians. Like the numbers. If you look up the numbers and our media does report these numbers, it's just, there's no images associated with it. So people. Doesn't stick in people's head. But if you look at the body swaps, it's not even close. I think Russians are not losing men the way Ukrainians are losing.
- [133:49]
Danny Jones
Wow.
- [133:50]
Ben Swann
And then I will say this, you know, people will say, oh, he's a Putin lover. Putin has conducted this war in a way that, that other countries would not have. And when I have talked to people who are Russian, not in the government, just Russians, they'll say, the thing is that Putin's been very gentle with Ukraine compared to how he would be with another country. So he's moved very slowly. He has not carpet bombed by any means. They haven't flattened cities. Like if the US were going to war in there, we, we just carpet bomb everything. Right. Like, look, we did to the, to
- [134:23]
Danny Jones
the Iranians, like how what they did
- [134:24]
Ben Swann
to Gaza or they did to Gaza. Right. Putin could do that in a minute, but he chooses not to because he also sees Ukrainians as Russians. Right. Again, most of them are ethnically Russian and speak Russian. Yes. 300 years ago, Kiev was the capital of Russia. Right. So it's, we have a very, I mean, this whole concoction of what Ukraine looks like and Russia looks like, like this is all a 30, 40 year old model. This is not, this is not the traditional thing.
- [134:56]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [134:56]
Ben Swann
And so he's, he's been, I think, pretty patient in this process of not just running over these people. I heard him say in a speech once that a lot of the homes in some of these Dumbas areas are 300 years old. He's like, those can't be replaced. Like, why are we going to go in there and just blow everything up? Right, Yeah.
- [135:17]
Danny Jones
I mean, it's like, like if, if we could imagine Russia was putting bioweapons labs in Mexico.
- [135:23]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [135:23]
Danny Jones
And you know. Well, me, I don't know, because China's kind of doing with Mexico. Right. China's kind of like funding the cartels down there. Oh, absolutely. Giving them precursors for chemicals and for fentanyl and all kinds.
- [135:34]
Ben Swann
That's like 20 years old. All that, all that.
- [135:36]
Danny Jones
Oh, they've been doing that for a long time.
- [135:38]
Ben Swann
Oh, yeah, yeah. Like all the meth that was coming from, coming up from Mexico was all from chemicals in China. Right, right, right.
- [135:46]
Danny Jones
Interesting. And we're not. Doesn't seem like we're doing about that.
- [135:48]
Ben Swann
Don't do anything about it. But the difference is, is that we're, we don't seem to mind when they're just poisoning poor people in America. Right. So you. Fentol is like, it's so sad. Like you go to any small town and it's like the entire population is gutted by fentanyl. Our government doesn't care. But if we thought they were going to release the measles into the country, they'd be freaking out. Right. Because it might actually get into their schools and hurt their kids and.
- [136:19]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [136:19]
Ben Swann
You know. Yeah.
- [136:21]
Danny Jones
I just had this dude on the other day who was a game warden, a wildlife game warden in Northern California, and they came across one day, they found one of their streams was dried up. I'm like, whoa, what the, what's going on with this? Like, this is weird. Usually in that case, like someone will be like diverting water to fill up the pool or something like that. So they went up, they found it, and they found the whole thing was diverted with like pipes and they followed it. And there was a cartel operation in the woods of Northern California doing a giant marijuana, cannabis grow out there. And they came, they, they pulled up on them like, like behind, like the, the wood behind the trees. And they saw these guys patrolling the crops armed with like AK47 style guns.
- [137:04]
Ben Swann
Yep.
- [137:04]
Danny Jones
And like that. And they ended up getting in multiple shootouts with the Sinaloa cartel in the woods in Mexico. And now he's saying they're also in Montana doing this and they can't get, they can't get any federal help. It's all like local and they're like, the game wardens are having to go train with like the Navy and, and learn how to like do, you know, armed combat.
- [137:26]
Ben Swann
Yeah, it's, it's totally nuts. And that's again, that's been going on for a long time. So 20, 30 years ago, that was going on in New Mexico. So the Gila National Forest, which is down in New Mexico. I remember as a, I was a 22 year old reporter out there covering stories and there was a guy telling me, yeah, you got to be careful where you are because if you come on, on these things, they have these huge marijuana grows in here and they'll kill you, you know, and so could
- [137:52]
Danny Jones
you imagine, could you imagine if, if China had some country like doing cartel operations in their backyard, they'd be wiped off the face. They would never happen.
- [138:01]
Ben Swann
No, it would never Happen. And the thing that's so crazy about it is, like, these guys would not be hard to stop again. Yeah, they have AK47s. We have National Guard and military who could take them out immediately.
- [138:12]
Danny Jones
Exactly.
- [138:13]
Ben Swann
No problem. And don't tell me that we can't find them because we're surveilling everything all the time. Right. So we could find them if we wanted to, but we don't want to. It's not important to. To. To us at all.
- [138:24]
Danny Jones
Yeah, it is. So it's just crazy that this is happening right here in our own backyard. And it's like everyone. Every politician, they just want to worry about everything that's going on overseas and in the Middle east, and everyone here just has to sit back and. And suffer this. It's crazy.
- [138:41]
Ben Swann
It is.
- [138:43]
Danny Jones
And you know, back to what you were saying about Ukraine, like, the. The whole thing with the bioweapons labs that were set up there. And like, like, you know, Victoria Nuland has famously been, like, known for, like, being behind all the corruption in Ukraine and trying to use Ukraine as this. Like, Ukraine's been in this, like, historic tug of war with the US And Russia and going back to, like, the color revolution, the Orange Revolution and all that stuff, and, like, trying to control the resources. And apparently they have, like, trillions of dollars of natural resources there that. That we want to control and we don't let. I think Lindsay Graham said something like, we. We need all their resources, and we can't let China get those trillions of dollars of minerals. We need to get those trillions of dollars of minerals.
- [139:26]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [139:27]
Danny Jones
And at the same time. At the same time, we have biological labs there, but they aren't for weapons. They're for defending against. Yeah, Biological attacks or something like that. Like, it's like, what.
- [139:39]
Ben Swann
It's nonsense.
- [139:40]
Danny Jones
How are we supposed to believe all this?
- [139:41]
Ben Swann
It's nonsense. So the. The bioweapons story is interesting. So in 2020, I was one of the first people who covered that story. And I actually found a reporter who two years before that, had actually been reporting on it in Ukraine. And she had talked about the fact that there were 30, 40 of these labs that were set up. And one thing that she had mentioned in her reporting, the. All the Americans who worked in those labs, because they were Americans who were working in those labs, it wasn't just Ukrainians. Every single one of them had diplomatic immunity. Now, if you're just creating stuff where you're like, oh, we're just trying to make sure that we don't get an outbreak of SARS or polio or something. Why would you need diplomatic immunity for that? They all have diplomatic immunity to be able to work there. The other thing is there were a lot of reports just before 2014. So right before Yanukovych, who was the democratically elected leader that we helped to overthrow before he was removed, he actually announced an investigation into those biolabs because there were reports of measle outbreaks, outbreaks, Ebola, a number of different diseases that broke out in the communities surrounding those labs. And so people were getting rightfully so upset saying, what are they doing in these things? We're having these weird outbreaks of disease in our communities.
- [140:59]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [141:00]
Ben Swann
So he ordered an investigation and threatened to expel all of the members of the US who were in those working in those labs from the country. And it was only a matter of months before that color revolution happened. I'm not saying it's. I'm not saying it's the only reason, but I believe it was a strong reason for it. And that's never been reported outside of Ukraine. It was reported in Ukraine, but not outside.
- [141:25]
Danny Jones
That's nuts, dude.
- [141:26]
Ben Swann
By the way, also, interestingly, about biolabs taking us back to our friend Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, a lot of emails about the biolabs in Ukraine. Emails with Epstein. Oh, yeah. So in Ukraine, Epstein is writing about the fact that he had sperm modification experiments going on, human cloning experiments going on. He has emails about this and he's writing to one of his. We don't know who it is because they're all redacted. He's writing to someone talking about how his funders who were helping to fund this wanted to be super careful that their names were not included in any emails or any conversations because it was very sensitive work that they were doing. Here's one.
- [142:14]
Danny Jones
Yeah, this is the embryo was nine months. Great. Can you zoom in a little bit? I like implant embryo A0, wait nine months. Great ending. Other updates. Proceeding with more mouse testing at my Ukraine lab. Surgeries, micro injections. Amateur in Mississippi has been testing human sperm modification. Just fluorescent tagging so far doesn't work for my purposes yet. Amateur in Mississippi has been testing human sperm modifications just for less and tagging for just fluorescent tagging purposes. Yet this weekend I'm heading to a something. There's a link there. Biohack the planet. Oh, my God, dude. Yeah, Drop site News reported on something related to this where he was actually working with nsa, like hackers to like hack the human genome or something like this to Figure out how to make super babies or whatever.
- [143:19]
Ben Swann
And. And, well, super babies and. Or there is a lot of conversation in these emails about black market babies where they wanted two to breed and grow babies for black market purposes. So I think he was doing both things. I think. I think that he was working to create what he thought were going to be like superhumans through some of this testing. And I think he was also trying to create a supply of babies that could be used for other purposes for their occult rituals.
- [143:49]
Danny Jones
My God, man.
- [143:50]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Which is back to what you said earlier. It all comes back to Epstein. And it's not because Epstein's the center of it. It's that all these things are going on. And Epstein was very good at his job, which was to insert himself into all these things that were going on. You know what I mean? So he's not the sun that everything's rotating around. He is more like a virus that everywhere he goes, he's trying to inject himself into it. Yes.
- [144:16]
Danny Jones
That's a great way of putting it. I remember spending, like, two nights in a row ripping through all of his emails with Steve Bannon, because that relationship really intrigued me. I was like, you know, it's so weird that the day Trump fired Bannon in the first term, he literally got in his car and went straight to New York to meet with Epstein and to film those videos with him in his Manhattan townhome. And I read probably the first 100 emails that Epstein sent to Bannon. He was so desperate to meet with him. And Bannon was just ducking him. Yeah. At every last turn. Like, Epstein would say in the morning, he'd say in New. In Palm beach, gonna be in New York these dates, or whatever, let's meet up. Whatever. Bannon would send him, like, okay, we'll try. And then, like, the next email would be like, are you in New York? Are you available to meet? And Bannon would email him six hours later, one word letter, no.
- [145:11]
Ben Swann
And it would.
- [145:12]
Danny Jones
It went on like that for months. Maybe almost a year.
- [145:14]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [145:15]
Danny Jones
Where Epstein was chasing this guy down. And, you know, Bannon's a interesting character, obviously. He's a very intelligent guy. He's, like, scary intelligent.
- [145:27]
Ben Swann
Sure.
- [145:27]
Danny Jones
And the people he's around and the things that he says and the things that he do. The things that he does and the things that he say that he says often are. They don't match up. Up. And I've always wondered, like, what's really going on with Bannon? Like, where did he come from? And it's really Crazy. Like, this guy got most of his money from Seinfeld. Did he?
- [145:51]
Ben Swann
Yeah. How so?
- [145:53]
Danny Jones
He was. He was the guy that put together the Seinfeld deal.
- [145:56]
Ben Swann
Really?
- [145:57]
Danny Jones
He gets checks every month for sign from Seinfeld.
- [146:00]
Ben Swann
I had no idea.
- [146:00]
Danny Jones
It's insane where this. How this guy's connected, huh? You know, and, you know, one of his most famous sayings is, is politics is downstream of culture, which he's de. De.
- [146:10]
Ben Swann
Right about. Yeah.
- [146:11]
Danny Jones
And, you know, he's. He's another one that's similar to Epstein, where he's everywhere. And, you know, I think it makes the most sense that Epstein was, like, really worried at the end about trying to revive his public Persona.
- [146:23]
Ben Swann
Yes.
- [146:23]
Danny Jones
And he wanted to get Ben in there to do that. But if you watch the video of Bannon and Epstein, Bannon's really, like, going at him, especially towards the end there. He's not being, like, playing softball.
- [146:35]
Ben Swann
No.
- [146:35]
Danny Jones
He's not playing nice guy at all.
- [146:37]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [146:37]
Danny Jones
He's like, do you think you're the Satan? And he's like, I have a good mirror.
- [146:40]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [146:42]
Danny Jones
So I don't know. Bandit's a spooky one to me, man.
- [146:46]
Ben Swann
I. I just don't know much about him other than to say that I agree with the concept that. That Bannon understands Middle America politics better than anybody in Washington. He understands what people want to hear. He understands their plight. He understands. I mean, he's the only reason Trump got elected in 2016. The stuff Trump talked about was considered completely. What is it? Persona non grata. Like, you could not talk about it.
- [147:14]
Danny Jones
Yeah.
- [147:15]
Ben Swann
You could not talk about things like NAFTA and jobs and immigration. Right. You could not bash the wars. All of that came from Steve Bannon saying, this is the position that you've got to take. And it's. I think, to a lot of. Of people in the political class, it was risky or foolish, but he knew exactly what he was doing. I think that whoever ran the campaign in 2024 went back to that. Right. They leaned back into it. Susie Wiles, I guess, was the one who. Who actually ran that campaign. Yeah.
- [147:46]
Danny Jones
100%, man.
- [147:47]
Ben Swann
Yeah. So, to me, Bannon's an interesting character because, again, I think he understands that. I don't think his time at Breitbart was necessarily great after Andrew, because Andrew was a real one. Andrew Breitbart was. He was something else, man. He was.
- [148:03]
Danny Jones
I don't know much about him.
- [148:05]
Ben Swann
He was, I think, one of the, like, real OG guys who would have been considered the conspiracy guy, but he. He Saw it all like he saw the Clintons for what they were. He saw the apparatus in D.C. for what it was. And it was out of that Andrew Breitbart that we got Ben Shapiro, who obviously has spun out into clear insanity, and we had Steve Bannon, who ultimately took it over for him. But if Andrew Breitbart were not dead, I think that we would have seen a very different maga. Would have been different, stronger, really, more of a conscience. Charlie Kirk weren't dead. MAGA would be different, stronger, more of a conscience. Like some of those guys who have been, like, the real. They're not political, they're principled. Are the ones who disappear. The more principled they are, the less likely they are to be able to survive it.
- [149:09]
Danny Jones
Yeah. What is your whole take on the Charlie Kirk thing? That's such a crazy. That was like a big, no pun intended, turning Point point in the last year.
- [149:19]
Ben Swann
Oh, for sure. Well, look, I always tell people, as a journalist, my job is the what, not the why. Right. I can't always tell you why, but I can tell you what. And I can tell you that first of all, with Charlie Kirk alive, there would be no war with Iran, because he stopped it the first time. It was supposed to have happened last year when Trump did the Operation Midnight Hammer and just ended up just. Just blowing up the. The nuclear facility that was empty.
- [149:48]
Danny Jones
They used the. The mother of all bombs. Right. The bunker busters.
- [149:51]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Charlie Kirk went to the White House, sat with Trump and said, don't do this. Like, this is a mistake. You'll lose your base, you'll lose these people. After Charlie Kirk is no longer around, all of a sudden, we're stuck in a war with Iran. Thomas Massie was Charlie Kirk's favorite Congress congressman. Has the highest.
- [150:12]
Danny Jones
He really?
- [150:13]
Ben Swann
Yeah. I mean, this is. These are Charlie Kirk's words on air. My favorite congressman. Right. Because he is the most principled, most conservative. Sticks with the Constitution. Turning Point USA has something called the Turning Point Action score, and it's based on your voting record and how conservative and. And. And how aligned with the Constitution you are. Thomas Massie has the highest score of all time time among any member of Congress on that Turning Point Action score, but without Charlie Kirk. Turning Point USA refused to endorse Thomas Massie this year. Wow. Yeah. Even though he still holds their highest Action score. And as someone rightly pointed out. So what's the point? What's the point of having a score at all if the guy who has the highest score of what you say is Valuable as a congressman. You then say, well, I'm. We're not going to endorse you because the President doesn't like you, so we don't like you.
- [151:07]
Danny Jones
Right, right.
- [151:08]
Ben Swann
And. And so I can tell you about those. What's. Yeah. As far as the actual Charlie Kirk's death, I can tell you that the Tyler Robinson story makes no sense. Yeah. There's no way Tyler Robinson is the guy who shot him. It's just. It's ridiculous. There's so much stuff that gets glossed over. Like when the shooting happens.
- [151:28]
Danny Jones
I haven't heard that name in so long.
- [151:30]
Ben Swann
Tyler Robinson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, remember the day that it happens, there's some older man who stands up and puts his hands up. It was me. It was. Whatever happened to that guy? Oh, he was confused. He was confused.
- [151:41]
Danny Jones
Wasn't he also at some other crazy event? I think. I think he was at. Was at 9 11. He was at some other crazy big event like that. Some big. Some big, like, mass death event.
- [151:54]
Ben Swann
Huh?
- [151:56]
Danny Jones
It Might have been 9 11.
- [151:57]
Ben Swann
Might have been. I don't know. I don't know for sure. I just know this guy gets glossed over like, that was nothing. He was some guy who was confused. He was confused that he thought he killed Charlie Kirk. Like, that's. That's not confusion. That's distraction.
- [152:09]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [152:10]
Ben Swann
What was this? The Tyler Robinson climbing up on a roof? First of all, the shot they have of him, which they AI enhanced, which is. I mean, that alone, if you're a defense attorney, like, anything that's AI enhanced should be thrown out.
- [152:21]
Danny Jones
What shot was AI enhanced?
- [152:22]
Ben Swann
So the original shot of him walking up to the building in. In his. That T shirt and everything where they. They had the original picture and then the AI enhanced it. The AI enhancement does not look like the original picture. Really? Yeah. It's like the face is different. Pull it up.
- [152:36]
Danny Jones
The original photo of. Of Tyler Robinson compares going into the building. Going into the building.
- [152:42]
Ben Swann
And if you look at the AI version of it, his face is different.
- [152:45]
Danny Jones
Really?
- [152:45]
Ben Swann
Yeah. It's not like, dramatically different, but it's different enough that you say, how do you know that's the same person?
- [152:50]
Danny Jones
Person. Right.
- [152:50]
Ben Swann
Also, then you claim once he got up on the roof, he changed his clothes. Right. So the clothes he's wearing when he walks into the building is not the clothes he's wearing when he's on the roof. So what was the point of showing us the picture of him walking into the building? Then you claim that he was walking in without a gun because he had it hidden on him. And he assembled the gun.
- [153:08]
Danny Jones
Right. And didn't disassemble it. Put it back in his backpack after.
- [153:10]
Ben Swann
And then climbed off the roof and then ran into the woods and reassembled it and left it there. Like, what? And then the last thing that's the most interesting thing to me is I don't know if you've seen this. And we should pull this up too. Apparently. Apparently the. Remember, he writes this message to some. Some group online or like a Facebook group or something where he's like, hey, guys, it's me, Tyler. I'm the one who did it. I killed. Apparently this message is sent after he's in custody. Really? Yeah. So you should pull that up too,
- [153:40]
Danny Jones
because it was on some sort of, like, private forum or something or discord.
- [153:45]
Ben Swann
Right?
- [153:45]
Danny Jones
Yeah. Yeah. So is this the photo we're talking about?
- [153:50]
Ben Swann
So this is the photo. So there's. There's two versions of it, right? And there's. There's a version of him when he's
- [153:57]
Danny Jones
walking up the stairs.
- [153:58]
Ben Swann
Walking up the stairs in. And then the one that the. The FBI used when they said they found him had been AI enhanced. So his face was different.
- [154:06]
Danny Jones
Different. Stephen. Stephen, when you. When you type this in Google.
- [154:13]
Ben Swann
Yeah, yeah.
- [154:15]
Danny Jones
AI enhanced versus.
- [154:18]
Ben Swann
Oh, yeah, there you go. See, like, those two pictures.
- [154:22]
Danny Jones
Holy. What? Click on that. Click Visit underneath that X post. I want to see what they say about this. This is why you shouldn't pass an AI enhanced version of a low resolution resolution photo. None of the AI generated versions of this look like Tyler Robinson. You would have slowed down the efforts of finding him because we'd be looking for the wrong guy. Okay, now click on. Whoa. So that's the original one, right? It's like five bit compared to these other ones.
- [154:55]
Ben Swann
Correct.
- [154:55]
Danny Jones
Now go to his actual photo. Okay.
- [155:00]
Ben Swann
Yeah, that's also. The FBI has claimed that Tyler Robinson's family was the ones who turned him in. They convinced him, remember, to turn himself in. His family. I know two reporters who have talked with the family extensively who say the family says none of that is true. Really? They did not turn him in. That is not true.
- [155:24]
Danny Jones
If you love diving into culture and comedy, like on Danny Jones podcast, playoff
- [155:29]
Ben Swann
hockey is right up your alley.
- [155:31]
Danny Jones
NHL on TNT has the best coverage,
- [155:34]
Ben Swann
making every game feel intense and unpredictable. Playoff hockey is a different level.
- [155:39]
Danny Jones
Overtime, big hits, and no one coast. The studio crew with Paul Bissonnet cracking
- [155:45]
Ben Swann
jokes and Wayne Gretzky breaking things down makes it even more fun to watch. Every shift matters, and the personalities keep things Lively.
- [155:54]
Danny Jones
Watch the Stanley cup playoffs on TNT,
- [155:57]
Ben Swann
TBS, TruTV and HBO.
- [155:59]
Danny Jones
Max.
- [156:02]
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- [157:03]
Ben Swann
The FBI says it. They, they made statements about it. They did not. They did not. So I mean there's a lot wrong with the story. Yeah. And obviously you, you know, you've seen the videos. I don't know what's true or not. The guy who, who tugs his arm. And there's a lot of claims about like a hidden gun in the hand.
- [157:22]
Danny Jones
And I also claim that the microphone was an explosive thing.
- [157:25]
Ben Swann
Yeah.
- [157:25]
Danny Jones
Or something.
- [157:26]
Ben Swann
Which you know, isn't hard to believe when you can make a pager blow up.
- [157:29]
Danny Jones
Not hard to believe at all.
- [157:30]
Ben Swann
Also saw something. And I don't know how true it is, but I also saw something when the Pakistan negotiations were taking place. Yeah. And Vance and his team were there. Somebody posted on X and said, don't know who it is, but seven of the nine mobile devices that were at the Charlie Kirk the day Charlie Kirk died that were at that location are right now registering in Pakistan.
- [157:59]
Danny Jones
I saw that.
- [158:00]
Ben Swann
Don't know. I don't even know how they would know that. But I thought it was very interesting. And then there's a bunch of other things too. Right. Remember there's a, some kind of a private plane that takes off shortly afterwards.
- [158:11]
Danny Jones
Egyptian plane stuff. Yeah.
- [158:13]
Ben Swann
I mean there's just a lot wrong with the story. And I think we're living in a moment.
- [158:17]
Danny Jones
The problem is there's too many threads. There's too many threads. You can get lost.
- [158:20]
Ben Swann
And it's intentional. Yeah. Right. So. So I've told people for a long time, disinformation, real disinformation.
- [158:28]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [158:28]
Ben Swann
Is not the person who's putting out the wrong theory. There is a concerted tactical effort that's made online, and this has been going on for over 10 years, where when people start to get close to something, a particular story will be flooded with information that's really bad, and it gets crazier and crazier and crazier.
- [158:48]
Danny Jones
That's another great Bannon quote. He says he's exactly what you're saying. He said you flood the Zone, then
- [158:53]
Ben Swann
you don't know what's true or not, and people become exhausted at trying to parse what is true and not true, just like you said with the Epstein stuff earlier. So what happens? So you get exhausted by it, so you say, don't even want to talk about it.
- [159:06]
Danny Jones
People just disengage. It's too much work. Too much. There's too many threads to follow. It's too much work to actually. If you really want to find the truth, to actually go dig up every source and really interrogate this story, like down to the. To the root of it was is. You're right. It's so exhausting, especially in today's day and age where this is just constant. We're getting battered over the head with new every single second.
- [159:31]
Ben Swann
So then the other way you deal with it is you just say, whatever the authority says, that's what it turns into. So they accomplish their same goal, which is, we can't defeat the Internet. But if we flood the Zone, if we make it so confusing that people can't even deal with it, then they just say, you know what?
- [159:50]
Danny Jones
The truth can be out there.
- [159:52]
Ben Swann
Oh, it is.
- [159:53]
Danny Jones
No one's gonna be able to pick that needle out of the haystack.
- [159:55]
Ben Swann
How do you find it? So in the case of Tyler Robinson, I think now what's a little bit different for him is, is so you have a. You have a trial. So let's see what comes out in the trial. Or is the jury pool already so tainted and believing that it was you that there's nothing that's going to change their mind? Who knows? I have no idea who his lawyer is. I don't know how good he is, but I feel like, look, the fact that. That Joe Kent, who was the counterterrorism. Counterterrorism domestically, right. Said that he would testify at that trial is a big deal. And of course, he was demonized for it. How Dare you want to help? He's like, I just.
- [160:34]
Danny Jones
He wanted to help with that. And he said on an interview, I think with Tucker was. He said that they waved him off. They said, we don't want you to help with this.
- [160:42]
Ben Swann
Because he wanted to know. He wanted to investigate whether or not the Israelis had any role in it.
- [160:47]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [160:48]
Ben Swann
And they said, nope. FBI shut it down. I don't even know how the FBI has the authority to shut it down. He said for it.
- [160:54]
Danny Jones
He didn't even say Israeli.
- [160:55]
Ben Swann
He didn't say Israel. He said for him. But that's what he was looking at.
- [160:58]
Danny Jones
He's very. He's been very, very, very measured and very balanced about this stuff.
- [161:02]
Ben Swann
He is. He is. He. And I don't think he's like, you know, there's a Jew under every rock. I don't think he's. He's not that guy at all. But I do think that, look, if. If there's a foreign power that is going to kill Charlie Kirk, that's where you would start. That's definitely where you would start.
- [161:18]
Danny Jones
Not.
- [161:18]
Ben Swann
First of all, they're very good at killing people. Right? Let's. Let's give Mossad credit. They're good at killing people. Yeah. I mean, the pager thing, pretty brilliant.
- [161:27]
Danny Jones
You make everyone's pagers explode in five years than any other civilization I'm aware of.
- [161:32]
Ben Swann
It's, it's, it's good stuff, man. If, like, if you're, if that's what you do for a living, which is what they do for a living. Yeah, they're very good at it. But also, you have to be in a. In a environment where everyone's complicit. Right. So the, you have to have the feds who are complicit in it. They're not going to make noise. You have to have a media that's complicit in it. So if you said the Russians killed Charlie Kirk and there was any evidence, you don't think. You think they would have blocked his investigation? No way. They'd say, go get him, Joe. Go get him. If you can prove that Putin's hiding behind the thing and he's like, detonate. And yeah, they'd be all about that. They love that. If they thought that she was back there and he's like, take him out. Absolutely. The only reason they got upset was because everyone knows who is the move. Most likely suspect. Doesn't mean they did it. But who's the most likely suspect.
- [162:18]
Danny Jones
Yes.
- [162:18]
Ben Swann
Because Charlie Kirk didn't have an issue with Those other countries. But he sure had an issue with Israel.
- [162:23]
Danny Jones
Now, what about the Butler shooting? Yeah, that one's another one that's just like that crazy. Never heard another thing about that.
- [162:31]
Ben Swann
And there was. You never heard anything about this guy at all?
- [162:33]
Danny Jones
No. And then Tucker put out a documentary like a 30 minute thing on his YouTube channel where the government was originally saying, there's no, nothing on this guy. This guy is not. No online footprint, nothing. And then Tucker found all this stuff of this guy posting videos on these private forums, asking questions about shooting guns. And like lots of. With this guy online that was never talked about once.
- [162:55]
Ben Swann
Well, and we never got any answers. Remember that? The day it happened. They also claimed that he had a van full of explosives. And it's like what happened to that van? Because that was part of the original reporting on it. So were they wrong? Was it not explosives? No one ever explained like what happened to this. Was that supposed to go off? No one ever explained what happened to the, the, to the guy who was on the other water tower. So there was. He was up on a roof, but there was someone up on a water tower.
- [163:19]
Danny Jones
Is that proven? There was a guy on the water tower too. Oh, there is.
- [163:25]
Ben Swann
Yeah. There's. I mean he's very small, little figure up there. But here's the other thing. Thomas Crooks, the guy who takes the fall for it all. There's no question he has a gun. The, the part of that story that never made sense that we reported on was why was it he was up there for. For three minutes with people pointing at him. Right. Saying that guy's crawling on the roof with a rifle and the President's still on stage. Yeah. Makes no sense at all. Yeah. But here's the craziest part of it to me that Thomas Crooks, also the other guy who was hiding in the, the, the bushes outside of Mar a Lago, both those guys were in Black Rock promotional videos.
- [164:03]
Danny Jones
Oh my God.
- [164:06]
Ben Swann
And the guy who just did the White House correspondence thing was featured in some ABC News report as a little scientist who invented a stopper for a wheelchair.
- [164:16]
Danny Jones
I saw that, bro.
- [164:17]
Ben Swann
They're all, they're all in. In media stuff. That's not a coincidence.
- [164:21]
Danny Jones
They're all MK Ultra, bro. They're all MK Ultra Manchurian candidates. And they're, they specifically pick the people with the crazy public backgrounds that when, as soon as it comes out, people start digging, they're gonna lose their minds.
- [164:35]
Ben Swann
Right. It's not coincidental. There's no way, like, there's no way they're both in Blackrock videos and the other guys like, you know, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be a scientist. And he's on tv, like showing his little inventions and then it's like two years later he's running through the, the Hilton with a rifle that he also assembled in a closet, by the way. Because what is this with these guys who are assembling guns in closets?
- [164:58]
Danny Jones
Right, right. And the whole thing with the, the Mentalist guy being like right there on camera with Trump and Melania when the whole thing happens, like you can't write a better script.
- [165:08]
Ben Swann
Well, and the fact that everyone's like, oh my gosh, I wasn't even on the same floor. Oh really? No, he's above them, so he's not even on the floor that they're on. So then afterwards when everyone's like, oh my gosh, we almost lost him again.
- [165:20]
Danny Jones
We really didn't.
- [165:21]
Ben Swann
He didn't even get close to that. Oh, and by the way, AI enhancement in that video also when he's running down the hall with the gun then. Because when Benny Johnson and some of those guys were reposting the video, everybody has like white squares on them. Yeah, because it's an AI video because the AI is adding these, these elements. There's a Secret Service guy who has a white square on him and, and the guy.
- [165:40]
Danny Jones
I thought that was the camera system that does that.
- [165:42]
Ben Swann
No, no, it's, it's the AI that was doing it was, I was adding things because then like it disappears like
- [165:47]
Danny Jones
a, like a white square of following them as they go.
- [165:50]
Ben Swann
It's a white square that disappears off of him and then it goes to the other guy so it looks like he's running with like this thing and then it disappears out of his hands and then, and then it pops up on somebody else. Yeah, but it was because they enhanced it, so stop enhancing it. First of all, here's what I don't get. Why do we have such shitty video for all these people when your ring doorbell is like 4K 6K?
- [166:11]
Danny Jones
I know, right?
- [166:12]
Ben Swann
Right? And then we see this video and it's like you can't even make out who's who.
- [166:15]
Danny Jones
Dude, this, this reminds me, this reminds me. We're like rapid fire right now. I love it. The, the missing scientist thing, the big giant general that, that top level general that we're missing. How does that not have a ring doorbell?
- [166:27]
Ben Swann
Right.
- [166:28]
Danny Jones
Like my 90 year old grandma has a ring doorbell. You're telling me a top level Five star military general doesn't have a ring doorbell.
- [166:37]
Ben Swann
Well, okay, so we also been reporting on this thing on the missing scientists. There's like 13 of them now, right? 14.
- [166:45]
Danny Jones
A lot of them aren't connected. Amy, that was years ago.
- [166:48]
Ben Swann
Yeah, well, it was. Yeah, it was years ago, but I don't know that she's not connected. The Amy Eskridge thing is interesting because I think she was more involved in the UFO thing because she's talking about like being tormented and harassed and stuff, which from some of the people I've talked to about what this, this disclosure that's coming is, that's very much a part of that stuff. What's more interesting to me are the number of people who are working at Los Alamos in New Mexico, because that's like half of them were working at Los Alamos and they all just walked off.
- [167:22]
Danny Jones
Yeah, one lady brought her hair dryer with her.
- [167:24]
Ben Swann
Yeah, they just disappear in the middle of the night and they're gone. Like, what is that? So are they being rounded up? They may not be dead at all. They may all be sitting in some place working on this stuff, bro.
- [167:34]
Danny Jones
I had this guy on the podcast the other day who was a former scientist for NSA and the CIA. In fact, fun, fun fact, he actually met Carl Sagan in NSA headquarters. Sagan had a contractor badge on it.
- [167:47]
Ben Swann
Oh my gosh.
- [167:48]
Danny Jones
So he was telling me that when he started working for the NSA doing science there, he was doing some sort of experiment to put a probe in Venus for. With Russia, in conjunction with Russia to like measure the atmosphere in Venus and all this stuff. They made him sign this incredible NDA. Like the NDAs they make these people sign that get like top secret access to shit are so crazy to where they even tell you if you violate any of these things in this NDA, or if you become mentally. Because you have so much top secret information in your head, if you start to become mentally unstable or if you start to get dementia or any sort of like psychological mental illness, we start to detect this. You're literally signing off off that the government may take any sanction necessary to get rid of you. So you're, you have, you're signing off that you're allowing the government to take your life or you are, you have the two options. We're going to take your life or you have to walk away from your public life.
- [168:52]
Ben Swann
Really?
- [168:53]
Danny Jones
So yes, and he says this general would have absolutely had to have signed off on one of these things because he had access to the Tippy Top programs. That were. Yeah, like the spookiest ufo. Like the.
- [169:05]
Ben Swann
The.
- [169:05]
Danny Jones
The tip of the spear when it comes to secret black budget technology. This guy had access to all of it.
- [169:11]
Ben Swann
Wow.
- [169:12]
Danny Jones
So he said it's ex. Like, very, very likely that this guy was willing to protect his wife and his family to just walk away from his entire life. And that's why he probably took his gun and there's no footage of him on a ring doorbell. He probably just like self. Self kidnapped in some way because.
- [169:34]
Ben Swann
So did. Does that mean that they hold you someplace or do you.
- [169:38]
Danny Jones
I have no idea what it means, but like. But all I know is what he said he was. He knows for a fact that the. The. The. Those crazy NDAs they make you sign. When you get access to that stuff, you're. You're signing away your. Your right to be taken by the government or be murdered by the government.
- [169:55]
Ben Swann
So why make you sign that? What's the point of signing that? Like, just kill him. Why don't you sign an agreement to be like, yes, you can kill me so they can hold up in a court of law.
- [170:03]
Danny Jones
Right? I know, right?
- [170:05]
Ben Swann
What?
- [170:05]
Danny Jones
Yeah, I don't know.
- [170:07]
Ben Swann
That's so weird.
- [170:07]
Danny Jones
I don't know. Why? Yeah, because. Yeah, they might as well just do it because they're going to get away with it anyways, right?
- [170:11]
Ben Swann
Yeah. They're going to say, oh, well, we. He was depressed.
- [170:14]
Danny Jones
Yeah. We whacked him. But he. Look at this piece of paper he signed.
- [170:17]
Ben Swann
Technically, it's not a crime.
- [170:19]
Danny Jones
Right?
- [170:20]
Ben Swann
Which maybe that's the point.
- [170:21]
Danny Jones
Listen to the.
- [170:22]
Ben Swann
The.
- [170:22]
Danny Jones
The 911 call with his wife. Yeah, she sounds extremely calm. She does not sound like a woman who. Just like, who. Who's afraid that her husband is missing. And he's not like. And she's worried. She does not sound worried. She sounds extremely calm. She doesn't sound panicked at all. And she sounds very measured. Very measured temperament. So.
- [170:44]
Ben Swann
Yeah. Also a mystery what happened to Samantha Guthrie's mom.
- [170:48]
Danny Jones
I don't know, but I couldn't get that off my TV for a month.
- [170:53]
Ben Swann
Like, UFOs and Iran and all this stuff. And by the way, where is this old lady?
- [171:00]
Danny Jones
What the happened? Did they ever figure it out?
- [171:01]
Ben Swann
No. Oh, my. She's like, vanished. And that's another thing. Like, they have like, one shot of like a weird face in the ring doorbell and it's like, we are the most surveilled nation in the world. Right? There's cameras everywhere. Yeah. You're telling me you don't have a single shot of like, this person other than, like, this close to their eyeball next to the. The. The. The ring doorbell.
- [171:22]
Danny Jones
Right.
- [171:22]
Ben Swann
It's so weird. And then. Did you see the. When she read the statement on air, and I can't think of the movie. There's a movie that basically she.
- [171:33]
Danny Jones
Where.
- [171:33]
Ben Swann
Where this person's loved one is kidnapped. It's not the movie Ransom, but it's similar to that, where there's this loved one is kidnapped. And the. The script she reads on air is almost identical.
- [171:43]
Danny Jones
Really?
- [171:44]
Ben Swann
Yeah. See if you can find that.
- [171:46]
Danny Jones
Melissa Guth.
- [171:47]
Ben Swann
Savannah Guth. It's Savannah. Savannah Guthrie's mom who's missing.
- [171:51]
Danny Jones
So Savannah Guthrie read this on.
- [171:53]
Ben Swann
She read this on air, and it was almost word for word, the same as what was in this movie.
- [171:59]
Danny Jones
Type in Savannah Guthrie, public speech, connection to movie.
- [172:05]
Ben Swann
Oh, here it is. There.
- [172:07]
Danny Jones
Viewer viewers and Internet sleuths noted that her exact phrasing. Nancy is in full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll see. Was eerily similar to a line from the 1991 movie Silence of the Lambs. Oh, wow.
- [172:22]
Ben Swann
Senator goes on television to beg for her abducted daughter's release. Katherine's very general guy. Talk to her, and you'll see. See stuff like that. Now, that's the. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm a conspiracy realist, I guess, because a lot of the stuff I report on ends up becoming true. Yeah, but that makes me a conspiracy theorist when I see stuff like that, because I'm like, there's a part of me that thinks you're planting, like, weird stuff all around us, like, to make it. They're like breadcrumbs to take you in all these weird directions.
- [172:50]
Danny Jones
It feels like.
- [172:51]
Ben Swann
I'm not saying that, you know, maybe she just happened to have watched Silence of the Lambs at some point. Said, I have this great idea of just something. Something I'm gonna say. But it's just. It's so weird to do that. I think I found a clip that shows.
- [173:04]
Danny Jones
Oh, is it side by side? Give it to me.
- [173:10]
Ben Swann
Full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her, and you'll see. Catherine is very gentle and kind. Talk to her and you'll see.
- [173:25]
Danny Jones
Kind of close. Not exactly.
- [173:26]
Ben Swann
Not exactly. Actually, the. The actress in Silence of the Lambs was more convincing.
- [173:30]
Danny Jones
Yeah, she was.
- [173:32]
Ben Swann
The way that Samantha's smiling is the end is so bizarre.
- [173:35]
Danny Jones
Oh, God. Listen, bro, this has been super fun, man. Thank you for doing this.
- [173:38]
Ben Swann
Thank you. Really enjoyed it.
- [173:40]
Danny Jones
This has been awesome. So. So tell me more about this documentary. You're Working on when is how. How much work have you done on it, when you plan on dropping it, and where do you plan on dropping?
- [173:47]
Ben Swann
Well, we're hoping for an actual theatrical release for it is what we're working on, if not streaming, but we're hoping by this fall it'll be ready to go, so.
- [173:55]
Danny Jones
I can't wait to see this, bro.
- [173:56]
Ben Swann
Thank you, man.
- [173:57]
Danny Jones
We'll have to do it again when you get that movie released.
- [173:59]
Ben Swann
Absolutely.
- [173:59]
Danny Jones
Week.
- [173:59]
Ben Swann
Absolutely.
- [174:01]
Danny Jones
Where else can people find your work?
- [174:02]
Ben Swann
So you can find me on X and Instagram. It's at Ben Swan. B E N S W A N N underscore. And then we're just getting back on you. I was banned from YouTube for like the last 10 years.
- [174:15]
Danny Jones
For the pizza gate.
- [174:16]
Ben Swann
No, I was actually banned over Covid.
- [174:18]
Danny Jones
So we got a lot of trouble during COVID too.
- [174:20]
Ben Swann
Covid was not good for me with YouTube. But we're back. We're finally back on. So we're rebuilding that channel. We had a couple million people. Now we're down to like, we're starting with 15,000. So. Okay, you can find me there. It's under the bin. Swan.
- [174:31]
Danny Jones
Perfect.
- [174:31]
Ben Swann
On YouTube.
- [174:32]
Danny Jones
Awesome.
- [174:32]
Ben Swann
Check those out.
- [174:33]
Danny Jones
We'll link it all below. Brother. Thanks again.
- [174:34]
Ben Swann
Thank you.
- [174:34]
Danny Jones
Good night, everybody.
- [174:35]
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