#411 - “MK-Ultra Victim” Garth Brooks is NOT Who You Think | Matt Cox

Summary

---

Danny Jones Podcast #411 – MK-Ultra Link to Garth Brooks & Why People Think He’s A Murderer | Matt Cox

Published: July 6, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode welcomes back Matt Cox — former conman, true crime writer, and podcaster — for a wide-ranging, often hilarious and conspiratorial conversation covering everything from Matt’s birthday, Ozempic and personal projects, to the bizarre “Garth Brooks is a serial killer” meme. The centerpiece is a lengthy, tongue-in-cheek exploration of why people (half-seriously, half-satirically) think Garth Brooks could be linked to missing persons, his alter ego Chris Gaines, and wider conspiracies about CIA mind control (MK-Ultra) in the music industry. The episode also features dives into true crime, the justice system, podcast culture, and outlandish conspiracies with guest calls, including a spirited cameo by comedian Kurt Metzger.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Matt Cox’s Life Updates & Birthday Chat

• The episode opens with the crew celebrating Matt’s 57th birthday and discussing his weight loss with Ozempic (GLP-1). He jokes about the side effects and “being on the bandwagon,” and shares personal reflections on career plateaus, podcast growth, and the relentless drive to take on more projects.
  • Notable Quote: “I'm 57. Anything that happens, it's like I've lived my life.” — Matt Cox (07:18)

Timestamps:

• [03:29] – Matt’s birthday wish: to get his stepdaughter’s true crime Youtube channel monetized.
• [04:44] – “I'm on Ozempics.” Matt on weight loss trends and side effects.
• [10:23] – Anxieties over podcast subscriber numbers.

2. Reentry Work & True Crime Projects

• Matt outlines his recent visit to a Utah jail, mentoring inmates about reentry into society and sharing honest advice about post-prison life. He jokes about wanting to have worked at McDonald's as “an entry position,” but ended up working at a gym instead.
  • Notable Quote: “I wanted to work at McDonald’s… so in two years, if you’re kicking ass, you can say, ‘Bro, I was in a rooming house, working at McDonald's.’” — Matt Cox (15:13)
• Discussion on the reality and struggles of life after prison, and parallels to his own journey from convicted fraudster, to rebuilding his life and career.

Timestamps:

• [08:02] – “From prison to podcasting: the American dream.” — Steve

3. Society, Law, and the Podcast Game

• Riffing on podcasting as a business, both hosts discuss audience growth, the role of luck and hustle, what keeps people watching, and the psychological traps of obsessive analytics. Matt shares the drive to diversify his enterprise and set up new channels, motivated by visions of retirement/security but also restlessness.
  • Notable Quote: “The longer you can work, the better off you are. The moment you retire, you’re just headed straight for the grave.” — Matt Cox (13:11)
• Sharp critique of the US political and justice system, term limits, and the pervasive influence of money and power.
  • Notable Quote: “It’s a banana republic… this country is fake.” — Steve (30:34, 155:58)

Timestamps:

• [11:05] – “I have to constantly tell myself, stop looking at month by month. Look at it annually.” — Matt
• [33:00] – On term limits and corruptibility in government.

4. Satire & Conspiracy: Garth Brooks as Serial Killer & MK-Ultra Theories

• Garth Brooks Serial Killer Theory (Satire): Matt details how, inspired by Tom Segura’s running joke, he and researchers mapped Garth’s tour dates against missing persons and unsolved murders. Through selective data mining and proximity, they manufactured a pattern, with the tongue-in-cheek implication that Brooks is a prolific killer.
  • Notable Quote: “It’s just proximity and it’s silliness, right?… But some are so good, I almost believe Garth may be involved.” — Matt Cox (70:41, 72:36)
• Chris Gaines – Garth’s Alter Ego: They dissect Brooks’ bizarre transformation into Chris Gaines — a supposedly Australian, emo/punk, sex-addicted superstar with a whole fictional backstory. The hosts and their guest find it so strange it becomes “evidence” of mind control or psychological manipulation.
  • Notable Quote: “Is it a coincidence Garth Brooks has some weird gay emo alter ego?... I think he’s probably an MK Ultra victim. I think he’s probably a Manchurian Candidate.” — Steve (78:32)
• MK-Ultra & CIA Mind Control in Pop Culture: The conversation widens into rampant speculation about MK-Ultra, Project Monarch, and celebrities being “programmed” for mass influence or as pawns of secret cabals. Referenced cases include Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, and even Elvis, with an expert call-in from comedian Kurt Metzger delivering extensive riffs about Monarch programming and mind control tropes in the entertainment industry.
  • Notable Quote: “The CIA got into country music way before rap. They hit country first.” — Kurt Metzger (93:12)
  • [91:02-101:56] – Deep-dive: the phone call with Kurt Metzger, connecting country stars to mind control conspiracies.

Timestamps:

• [66:06] – The Garth Brooks “serial killer” theory and the viral TikTok clips ("It’s satire!").
• [74:09] – Chris Gaines backstory.
• [75:48] – “This is the weirdest thing in country music history.” — Joe Rogan (as quoted by Matt)

5. True Crime Industry Satire & Critique

• Matt laughs about being iced out of “CrimeCon” conventions because of his criminal background, despite large subscriber numbers. He skewers the industry’s preference for sanitized, victim-focused narratives—over the voices of actual former criminals and those with firsthand experience.
  • Notable Quote: “If I put in a request and say, ‘I’ll pay for my booth,’ no. 1.1 million subs and you can’t return an email. It’s insanity.” — Matt Cox (139:16)
• Discussion about the dominance of middle-aged women in the true crime podcast audience, and the industry’s strict “no-glamorization” of criminals policy.

Timestamps:

• [135:54] – Experiences at CrimeCon and the demographics of true crime fans.

6. Outlandish True Crime/Conspiracy Tangents

• Listeners are treated to tales about characters such as Frank Amadeo ("The Emperor"—a real ex-lawyer/fraudster was convinced he was destined to rule the world, dabbled in African regime change, and knocked 12 years off Matt’s sentence).
• Chat about mass shootings (Aurora “Joker” killer), the Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski as an MK-Ultra subject), and the intersections between trauma, mind control experiments, and later criminality (112:09 onwards).
• Healthcare system corruption and cost disparities, and their links to government dysfunction, as discussed around [154:19].

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• On the podcast plateau:
  “We’ve hit a plateau for a month or so, and then bam, it’ll start doing great again…” – Matt Cox [08:35]
• On the “American dream”
  “From prison to podcasting: the American dream.” – Steve [08:02]
• On true crime romanticization:
  “People romanticize working at a gym… No, I’m cleaning toilets.” – Matt Cox [15:25]
• On government term limits:
  “We should have term limits, and all the rules Congress passes should apply to Congress…” – Matt Cox [33:14]
• On the Garth Brooks killer meme:
  “That was the one episode we did that I decided not to publish on my main channel because I was so afraid of getting sued by Garth Brooks, and it went crazy.” — Steve [66:18]
• On the resonance of satire:
  “People are doing that in the comments… You have to know this is satire.” — Matt Cox [67:43]
• Chris Gaines/alter ego:
  “Part of his character is that he has an addiction to sex… This is coming out of Garth Brooks, humble all-American guy, who’s created this weirdo.” — Matt Cox [74:49]
• MK-Ultra/Manchurian candidate:
  “He’s probably an MK Ultra victim. He’s probably a Manchurian candidate. That’s the most likely scenario…” — Steve [78:32]
• CrimeCon critique:
  “If any criminal were to go to them and say I want a booth, they’d say no… whoever’s running it is just doing a horrible job. They’re missing the boat.” — Matt Cox [140:05]
• On the majority true crime audience:
  “90% women, with the guys being dragged there by their girlfriends…” — Matt Cox [137:05]
• Reflections on podcasting’s reality:
  "90% of people that start a podcast don't make it past their second or third episode...it wears you down." — Matt Cox [141:54]
• Healthcare system critique:
  “US healthcare is top notch—if you can afford it…” — Matt Cox [156:01]

---

Extended Highlights

Garth Brooks, Murder, and Mind Control (66:00–80:00+)

• Satirical break-down of how Garth Brooks’ touring schedule could be mapped to local unsolved crimes and missing people, with painstaking “research” for laughs. Matt notes how, through confirmation bias, you could do this with any major touring artist.
• Examination of the Chris Gaines persona as evidence of dissociation or “MK-Ultra programming,” including his method approach (required people to address him as Chris, adopt an accent, etc).
• Call-in expert (comedian Kurt Metzger) backs up the (absurd) idea that the country music business was infiltrated for psychological manipulation, citing Monarch, Bohemian Grove, and music industry handlers.

Broader Mind Control & True Crime Tangles (80:00–120:00+)

• Coverage of the “Karen Read” trial — commentary on police corruption, planted evidence, and how public opinion is shaped by skilled lawyers and victim narratives.
• Espionage and agency: tales of narcissistic fraudsters, Franks Amadeo’s grand delusions, and celebrity mind control “victims” (Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, Kurt Cobain).
• Detailed discussion of real historical mind control programs (MK-Ultra, Project Monarch), celebrities possibly being “programmed,” and the theory’s crossover into general “society is fake” / banana republic musings.

The Podcast & True Crime Content Game (101:56+)

• Meta-commentary on podcasting as an industry, the economics of content, and audience fickleness.
• Story of why Matt Cox and other ex-cons are not welcome at CrimeCon and similar mainstream events.

---

Structure Recap

1. Birthday, health trends, and podcast business
2. Life after prison & motivational outreach
3. Podcast hustle, platform growth, and burnout
4. Conspiracy satire: Garth Brooks, Chris Gaines, MK-Ultra, Project Monarch
5. Industry critique: podcasts, crime content, and CrimeCon
6. Conspiracy/mind control tangents: music, politicians, celebrities
7. Healthcare, science funding, and societal trust
8. Closing with true crime podcasting and meta-commentary

---

Conclusion

This episode is a wild, freewheeling, and meta satire on modern podcast culture, true crime’s popularity, and the ease with which conspiracy and confirmation bias can spin out of control. Grounded in Matt Cox’s prison-to-podcaster journey and entrepreneurial drive, it plays with American obsessions over celebrity, crime, and control, culminating in the tongue-in-cheek (and viral) theory that Garth Brooks is both a serial killer and an MK-Ultra mind control puppet.

Best for listeners who enjoy true crime, podcast business, irreverent conspiracies, and satire: it’s both content and a commentary on content itself.

Transcript

[Danny Jones]

Heat up your fourth of July at

[Matt Cox]

the Home Depot with our wide variety of grills under $300. And make every gathering one to remember. Give your outdoor space a glow up whatever your budget is with savings on seasonal plants starting at $5.

[Danny Jones]

With the grill fired up and your

[Matt Cox]

backyard set to perfection, you'll be able to invite friends and family over to

[Steve]

kick off the party.

[Matt Cox]

Start celebrating with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot. Prices may vary by store.

[Danny Jones]

Exclusions apply.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Seehomedepot.com Pricematch for details this episode sponsored by Mood. Okay, this is actually genius. Are you ever overwhelmed with choices at the dispensary? What if I told you that you could shop cannabis by the exact mood you want tonight? With Mood, you don't shop by strain names or confusion. You shop by how you want to feel. Want to relax after work, sleep better, feel more creative or be more social? Mood makes it simple. Pick the Feeling and Mood recommends products to match. Mood has gummies, flour, pre rolls and edibles designed around your mood. I tried Mood's sleepy gummies and within an hour I felt calm, settled and ready for bed. No dispensary run, no second guessing, just a smooth, relaxing experience delivered to my door. It's federally legal, third party tested and backed by a 100 day satisfaction guarantee. Go to Mood m o o d dot com. That's m o o d dot com. However you want to feel tonight. Mood helps you get there.

[Steve]

Happy birthday, Matt Cox. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, Matt Cox. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, buddy. Make a wish.

[Matt Cox]

Is there's. It's not going right.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Steve]

We are rolling. We're rolling.

[Matt Cox]

I gotta make sure my hat.

[Steve]

We're rolling, kid. How old are you?

[Matt Cox]

Old, bro. It's bad. So I'm 57.

[Steve]

57.

[Matt Cox]

57.

[Steve]

Is that officially Boomer age?

[Matt Cox]

I. I don't.

[Steve]

I think you're on the borderline of boomer.

[Matt Cox]

No, I'm not.

[Steve]

You're not quite boomer. You might be Gen X.

[Matt Cox]

What is that why I'm tilting this? But it's pulling on here.

[Steve]

I don't.

[Matt Cox]

Is it it. You want it pulling on that?

[Steve]

No. You can. You can unlatch it.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. I don't think I like that pulling. I don't want you to.

[Steve]

How you been?

[Matt Cox]

I've been great. Very happy. What is this? Is this a sponsor?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Are they good?

[Danny Jones]

They're great.

[Steve]

Oh, cool. You want one?

[Matt Cox]

Peach. I don't like. I don't like anything peach. I do like. I do like lemon. Yes. No. Is that lemon? I like strawberry straw. No, I like lemon. Lemons.

[Steve]

We don't have no strawberry. Strawberry lemon.

[Matt Cox]

Strawberry lemon.

[Steve]

That is strawberry lemon. Yeah. No raspberry lemonade.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, that sounds like a good combo.

[Steve]

Not as good as a nice cold Coca cola.

[Matt Cox]

No, that's the best. And of course I. I was interviewed. Ryan Root, remember Ryan Root?

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Cox]

He's got a whole war against sugar. I had to listen to a whole thing about sugar and how it's killing us. While I'm eating, while I'm drinking one, One root beer after another. I had like two root beers and a chicken cherry coke. And I'm like, right. It's bad. It's horrible.

[Steve]

It's horrible.

[Matt Cox]

I don't drink in the. I'm like, you mean like this? He's like, yeah, it's horrible for you. I was like, yeah, I know. I feel. I feel horrible drinking the whole thing.

[Steve]

Well, you better make a wish and blow out your candles before those candles disintegrate.

[Matt Cox]

Okay, let me think about this.

[Steve]

Yeah. What are you going to wish for?

[Matt Cox]

I need my stepdaughters YouTube channel. She started a true crime YouTube channel where she just re. You know, she. She does like 30, 45 minute things where she talks about Jeffrey Tomer or whoever, you know, and she. She's putting out three a week. I need her, I need it monetized. She's got a couple. She's got like a thou. Over a thousand subscribers. She just needs to get monetized. I really need that to happen because everything else in my life is amazing.

[Steve]

That's nice.

[Matt Cox]

So that's it. That's all I need.

[Steve]

Wish something for someone else. Very nice of you.

[Matt Cox]

I did that.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

No, really, it's me. I'd like to get her off the payroll.

[Steve]

That is. That is really.

[Matt Cox]

Oh yeah, it's really mine. It's really for me. I need to get her off the payroll. All right. Oh, damn it.

[Steve]

I'm sorry that you almost had it.

[Matt Cox]

Sorry, Marcelli.

[Steve]

Whoa.

[Matt Cox]

Uhoh.

[Steve]

What, are you gonna pinch it with your fingers, psychopath?

[Matt Cox]

I mean, I'm not that guts either. I know that's a tough guy thing.

[Steve]

Bottoms up. You got to eat that whole cake now.

[Matt Cox]

I can, I can do that.

[Steve]

You think you'd eat that whole thing?

[Matt Cox]

No, I'm not eating the whole thing.

[Steve]

You could definitely.

[Matt Cox]

I mean, I probably could. I'm on Ozempics.

[Steve]

It's a small kick. You're on the Ozempic?

[Matt Cox]

Oh, yeah. I've lost.

[Danny Jones]

Stop.

[Matt Cox]

£15.

[Steve]

What? Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Great.

[Steve]

When did you get on that?

[Matt Cox]

Months ago.

[Steve]

Last time I talked to you, were you on it?

[Matt Cox]

I think I might have been, but it wasn't working. I was on. I'm not on Ozempic. I'm on whatever the off brand is that. There's some other version.

[Steve]

Is it Retta?

[Matt Cox]

No, Just knows.

[Steve]

Okay. I know what you mean. It's a GLP one, though. Same does.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, same thing. But this one works. Ozempic. I had like acid reflux and it just wasn't working. This one works.

[Steve]

Are you still on the. Are you still on the gas?

[Matt Cox]

The gas? What's the gas?

[Steve]

The test.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[Steve]

Okay. How's that going?

[Matt Cox]

That's great, except I haven't been able to work out lately because I've just been going non stop.

[Steve]

You're just not hungry? Because when we first talked, you first got on it, you were like super hungry hungry.

[Matt Cox]

I get. That's what I'm saying. I got on that. I gained like 20 pounds, right.

[Steve]

And now with the. With the Ozempic, it's great. You're not hungry anymore.

[Matt Cox]

No. So listen, I went from 170 up to 95 pounds because of the test. It just made me hungry all the time. And then, so then I lost like, I got. I was like, okay, this is getting too much. So I tried to lose weight. I lost like £10, but I'm still hungry all the time. So then I got on whatever the name of it is anyway, and then I lost an extra 15 pounds probably in the last, I don't know, month and a half. Month. Month and a half.

[Steve]

You hopped on the bandwagon.

[Matt Cox]

I mean, what am I?

[Steve]

Everybody is on the Ozempic.

[Matt Cox]

I feel, and I feel horrible. I feel bad.

[Steve]

Everybody looks like a melted candle.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. I'm taking my hat off. I don't have to wear the hat, right?

[Steve]

No, yeah, you take it off. Show off that hairline. Magnificent hairline. That is not the hairline of a 57 year old, I'll tell you that right now.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, my gosh.

[Steve]

I heard also that the. The GLP1 kind of like reduced your overall desire to do things like not just eat, but any sort of, like general desire, even like sexual desire and things like that.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I would say that's part of it.

[Steve]

That's unfortunate.

[Matt Cox]

I know, I know. It's that.

[Steve]

And how do you remedy that?

[Matt Cox]

I don't know. I'm so motivated. Here's the thing, I would. Motivation. Well, first of all, the test, it's kind of like they're fighting each other.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

You know, you just gotta, when. When that feeling hits you, you know what I mean? You gotta just grab them and throw them over your shoulder. I just grab Jess, throw over my shoulder, and walk upstairs whether she's ready for it or not, you know?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

Just part of the.

[Steve]

Is part of. Aren't you worried about, like the long term side effects of that kind of stuff or you're just in it for. In it for a good time, not a long time.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm 57. Anything that happens, it's like I've. I've lived my life.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I'm good.

[Matt Cox]

Things go bad. I expected to go. I didn't think it'd make it this long.

[Steve]

It's beautiful to see a story like yours. A guy that goes from the ultimate top of the world, running around in. Driving around in Ferraris, stealing millions of dollars from banks, living large, traveling the globe, on the run to federal prison for how many years? 12 years?

[Matt Cox]

13.

[Steve]

13 years bottom come out of federal prison, you're in here with no money. I'm giving you $1,000 for Christmas so you can afford Christmas.

[Matt Cox]

I was so excited. Now he just mailed it.

[Steve]

Mailed a pack of money?

[Matt Cox]

No, it was just. It was like a money order. He mailed me like a thousand dollar check one time.

[Steve]

And now you're rich again. It's a beautiful thing. It's the American dream.

[Matt Cox]

I'm doing okay. Let's not get crazy.

[Steve]

That's why I didn't buy you a birthday gift, because there's nothing that I could buy you that you couldn't already buy yourself. So I figured a cake would do the job.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Yeah. Jess didn't give me a cake. I didn't get a cake from Jess. Naughty Jess. No, not yet. Maybe tonight. I don't know. Maybe. Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

It's good times. Good times.

[Steve]

So what's been going on? How's life treating you? How's the podcast?

[Matt Cox]

I mean, the podcast is good. Do you ever feel like, well, we've had this conversation, you kind of. Sometimes you hit a plateau. That's how I feel like. I feel like I hit a. We've hit a. We've hit. We'll hit a semi plateau for a month or so and then bam, it'll start doing great again. And then it hit another little plateau. And so right now I feel like we're kind of hitting. We've hit a plateau over the last month or so and then. But like a month and a Half ago, we were a plot.

[Steve]

When you say, are you talking in terms of, like, views?

[Matt Cox]

Like views. Like, everything's getting between. Right around 100,000 views, and you're like, you know, maybe 80,000. Somewhere on average, around 100,000. You're like. And then. And you're like, okay, well, I mean, the last six videos or eight videos are all roughly 100,000. You're like, okay, that's it. Like that. And it's a plateau. And then suddenly, bam, you'll have something that hits like 250,000. And then the next one's like 180,000. And the next you're like, oh, wow. So everything starts to go up again. And then you still think about that

[Steve]

with all the podcasts that you do every week.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I still watch the numbers.

[Danny Jones]

Really?

[Steve]

Yeah. I feel like once we started doing two episodes a week, I just didn't have time or energy to pay attention to that as much.

[Matt Cox]

I kind of paid.

[Steve]

You know, I kind of like, if we have one that doesn't do a ton of views, I'm like, okay, great, whatever. We got another one coming out in two days. Like, let's focus on that.

[Matt Cox]

I'm not saying that it's keeping me up at night, but I am. I am mindful of it. For instance, we were get. We were. We were. At one point, we were getting just. On average, it was just an average month, was 30,000 new subscribers a month. It was like a thousand a day. And that was going on for months and months. So you get used to it. And then when it drops down and suddenly it's 15 or 20,000, you're like, what's going on? Like, I'm gonna have to sell my car. What's happening? It was total panic.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

And then, you know, like, right now, I think it's worth 20, 24,000 subscribers a month. And it's like, you know, when really, let's face it, three years ago, if I'd gotten 24,000 subscribers in a month,

[Steve]

I would be like, yeah, I would

[Matt Cox]

be on top of the world. And now it's, you know, who keeps me level headed is Colby. I'll complain about something, and Colby will walk over, he'll play with his phone for a minute, he'll walk over and he'll go, that's what the numbers were a year ago. And I'm like, okay, never mind.

[Steve]

Good job, Colby.

[Matt Cox]

You know? Like, you know, so I. It. I have to constantly tell myself, stop looking at month by month. Look at it annually.

[Steve]

Yeah, 100% it's easy to get stuck in that rat race mentality, you know, where you're just trying to like, constantly compete with yourself and beat the following week, the following month, the following year, when it's just like, well, I'm also, zoom out, look at the big picture.

[Matt Cox]

Life's great. I'm also constantly trying to do more and more, which is stupid because I'm always like, God, I'm so busy. I need to, you know, when things calm down, I'll be able to work out more and I'll do this and this. And Jess is like, it's never gonna calm, you know, it's never going to settle down. She's like, you keep throwing on more and more stuff to do. And I do, I, I do, I. And I really need to stop. You know what I'm saying? You know, you ever, you don't ever feel like that, like you're just constantly taking on more and more.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Projects right now.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

I'd be lucky if two of them

[Steve]

ever make it 10 projects. No, see, I'm not that ambitious. I, I, I do this podcast and the rest of them. I don't do any other, any other work. Like, this is my only work right here. Oh, no, no, I'm not interested in, in, you know, making any money on crypto or starting any side projects or.

[Matt Cox]

No.

[Steve]

You know, making documentaries or selling, you know, maybe we'll do some merch. I think we're working on some merch and, you know, dealing, you know, do cool stuff for our Patreon community and stuff like that. But like, other than, you know, side projects and side channels and all that kind of crap.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

I just stick all my energy into this and then the rest of it's like my kids and my wife.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, well, I'm not like you. No, I'm trying to, I've got a second channel going. We're about to possibly start two more channels. We're renting another unit so we can build out three more podcast sets.

[Danny Jones]

What?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. And this is all Colby, really? Because the truth is, is that 57 years old, what happens in five years? Even though when I say this, Jess and Colby, like roll their eyes. I think in, in five years from now or six years from now, like nobody wants to watch a 64 year old man. You know, it's very possible that nobody's gonna.

[Steve]

Joe rogan in his 60s.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Is he? Well, I mean, listen, he's also in way better shape than me, but I'm just saying, in general, you're not Far away.

[Steve]

You could get to his level.

[Matt Cox]

I'm saying in general, what if, you know, like, what if something happens? What if I have a stroke? What if. That it'd be great to have multiple channels with other hosts that can kind of take over that whole thing. And I can. I could retire. Not that I want to retire, because I feel like the moment you retire, you. You're just headed straight for the grave. Like, the longer you can work, the better off you are. Yeah, and I want to, but I also think, man, you don't know what's going to happen. So those are projects I want to do and that we're. We're working on. And then, like, I'll get. I got a phone call from a. A sheriff who's running a program, like a re entry program for a bunch of inmates. Some. Some state inmates, some local inmates, right? But all these guys have been locked up for years. One guy had been like, 20 years. Another guy, you know, five years. This guy's 11 years. There's like 20 of them. And this was in Utah. And so I flew out to Utah. I talked to him for two hours, got on a plane and flew back, you know, just because he called. And I thought that'd be cool. And he was like, you know, you will. I'll take you in the prison. And. And he's like, it was so funny, too, because he felt like I was doing him this huge favor. I just thought it was the coolest fucking thing ever. I got to go in and talk to these guys, and it was like. It was just so cool. And, you know, and got to tell him, like, you know, like, look, you can get out. Like, it's gonna suck.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna make it sound like, oh, you get out and you'll do great, you know, and it's gonna be easy. No, it sucks. I explained the whole thing, and I. Look, it sucks. Like, you're gonna have to expect people are gonna give you a hard time. You're gonna have to apply for a bunch of jobs. You'll probably have to work at McDonald's. I gave my whole spiel, too, about when I got out. I actually wanted. You've heard this. I wanted to work at McDonald's. I thought that would be cool, even if it was just for a few weeks or a few months. I thought that's like, to me, such an entry position. You know what I'm saying?

[Steve]

Like. Like a cleansing, right?

[Matt Cox]

Like, this is where you're, like, in that way, in Two years from now, if you're kicking ass and somebody's complaining, I. So bros live in a rooming house. Working at McDonald's two years ago, great

[Steve]

argument to throw at somebody, right? Yes, I worked at McDonald's.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Straight out of prison, so I don't want to hear how bad things are for you, but I didn't. I ended up working at a gym. But even at the gym, I'm still cleaning toilets. I'm still mopping floors, I'm still wiping down equipment, you know? Yeah, but it was.

[Steve]

You played hooky that day to do my podcast, right?

[Matt Cox]

Yes, but it didn't. It wasn't as good.

[Steve]

It was you, Stephen.

[Matt Cox]

It wasn't as good as McDonald's. McDonald's would have been better. Burger King or McDonald's. That would have been the best. You slip it on the floor of grease instead of sweat. Yeah, but you know, people. People romanticize working at a gym. They think it's cool. Like, if you're young, you're like, oh, that's kind of cool, bro. You can work out a gym. You get to work out. No, I'm cleaning toilets. I'm. I'm cleaning showers. And anyway. Yeah, so. But anyway, I talked to these guys about that. That was super cool.

[Steve]

And so, yeah, where these guys were currently incarcerated. So you went inside the prison?

[Matt Cox]

No, I mean, like, One guy did 2, 20 something years. He murdered somebody. Oh, my God. These were all serious guys.

[Steve]

Oh, wait, what do you got?

[Matt Cox]

I got pictures.

[Steve]

Oh, you got pictures of them?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, look, you're gonna be like. You're gonna go, holy g. Look at how these are some hard looking, bro.

[Danny Jones]

Mm.

[Steve]

What state was it again?

[Matt Cox]

It was Utah. That's just the guys that were running it here. Here's all the. Yeah, this is.

[Steve]

Yeah, let's see.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, this happened recently. Yeah, this is a few weeks ago.

[Steve]

Oh, wow. Look at all these guys.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

So do these guys know you from YouTube?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I'd say half the guys there were like. When I started talking, one of the guys was like, hey, I've seen you. Yeah? Yeah, I've seen you. Yours. You, you, you. Do you interview guys? Yeah, yeah. And one guy goes, were you in the middle of it? He like. He said. He goes like this. And I was like, yeah, what's up? He goes, were you on American Greed? And I went, yeah, he's. I remember that.

[Steve]

Holy cow, look at this. Send this to Steven so you can put it up. You got Steven's number?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

So text out to Steve. That's wild.

[Danny Jones]

Bro.

[Steve]

So These guys have YouTube in prison.

[Matt Cox]

I don't know if they saw it in prison, but they knew who I was. I didn't ask him

[Steve]

which guy was the guy. Was the guy with the neck tattoos the one who murdered somebody?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, they both had neck tattoo. They both.

[Steve]

Multiple guys were in there for murder.

[Matt Cox]

I don't know. I didn't go around. But I mean, they all, like, listen, they'd all been there with one guy four years, one guy 20 years. One guy, you know, 11 years, 12 years. These are state inmates. I mean, this is. They had like. And he told me, he said, then they've all got serious.

[Steve]

Oh, this wasn't a federal prison.

[Matt Cox]

No, this is state. He's like, these are serious. And I thought, well, I'm going to a detention center, basically a jail. It's a jail. And I was like, well, it's a jail. And he said, yeah, but some of these guys have been here three, four years. He's in half of them. We contract the state. Cause if the state facilities get full, then they'll pay the local jails to house these guys. He said, so half these guys are state inmates who've been here for seven years, eight years, 11. And they still have a couple years to go.

[Steve]

Wow, that's amazing. Matt Cox.

[Matt Cox]

It was fun.

[Steve]

Doing good for the community. I love it.

[Matt Cox]

See? And you're putting a spin on it. I think it was just. I just had fun.

[Steve]

And you got. Is that your new Trump watch?

[Matt Cox]

That. It is my new Trump watch.

[Steve]

Tell me about your new Trump watch he got you.

[Matt Cox]

They got me. I was watching. I. I actually.

[Steve]

You order this on. On. On off of the television?

[Matt Cox]

No.

[Steve]

Was this. Was this on the Mark Levin Show? You got this.

[Danny Jones]

You.

[Steve]

Do you have, like, a sale or something? What are you doing? I'm taking that long to send a text.

[Matt Cox]

It did, because I kept saying, typing in, Steve.

[Steve]

Oh, my God, he really is 57.

[Matt Cox]

All right, so now. So what happened was I was on Instagram one morning. I'm going, yeah. And I see this watch. And I thought, oh, I like that. And it was $499. And I went, I spending 400, 500 bucks on a watch. And kept going, oh. And then I saw it was a Trump watch. I was like, it's funny because he does a little thing. I was like, okay. And being qu. It in bed, my wife's sleeping. I keep going. And then later on that day, I see it again, and I'm like, I'm not spending 500 bucks on a wallet.

[Steve]

They retargeted your ass.

[Matt Cox]

And then they hit me up with a sale 249. And I went 249. And I. And I.

[Steve]

250, baby.

[Matt Cox]

I'm buying. I've got to have it for 259. So I buy it. And as I'm hitting the button to buy it, I thought to myself, this fucking guy probably had this thing made for 1250 and then tariffed me for another from China and then hit me for another six or eight bucks for the tariff. He's probably got less than $20 into this watch. And I'm just getting. And now he just got me for two something.

[Steve]

Look at these guys.

[Matt Cox]

Look at the one guy.

[Steve]

Look at the Mexican dude on the right. Yeah, that guy.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, that guy screams cigar sicario, right?

[Steve]

Oh, yeah, that guy has killed some people. That guy has trafficked some human beings across the southern border for sure. That dude second to the left, though, he looks interesting. I wonder what that guy did. That Indian looking dude, the bald guy.

[Matt Cox]

Second to. Oh, yeah, yeah, that. I feel like. Yeah, I feel like that's. He. He screams fraud to me.

[Steve]

Yeah. White collar crime.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. One of the guys, I don't know if it's gotten the left or the right from me. One of them had. Apparently his stepdaughter or daughter had been supposedly attacked or, you know, say, let's say assaulted.

[Steve]

Okay.

[Matt Cox]

And he hunted the guy down and supposedly beat him to death or killed him or something. And he ended up getting like 25 years or something.

[Steve]

Wow.

[Matt Cox]

30 years. And he's done like 20 or something like that. I forget exactly what this story. I was just like, okay.

[Steve]

For getting revenge for someone who beat up his daughter?

[Matt Cox]

Well, I think it was more than that. But, yeah, I think it was more than beat up. So I.

[Steve]

That.

[Matt Cox]

That was kind of the story, you know, but here's the thing. Who knows what the story, you know, the story you tell the other inmates and what really happened.

[Steve]

Exactly.

[Matt Cox]

Could have been a drug debt for all. For all you really know, but I. I don't know.

[Steve]

Yeah, it could have just been some story that he cooked up with this lawyer.

[Matt Cox]

Right. I have to look it up. Another guy. What was the other. Because one of the guys I looked up, what had he done? He'd basically been in and out of prison over and over again. And he killed, like a police dog. Like. Like the cops were chasing him and they stuck the dog or they let the dog go on him. And I think he shot the dog and killed the dog. And they didn't find that cute at all.

[Steve]

Oh, they gave him time for killing the dog.

[Matt Cox]

Absolutely.

[Steve]

Really?

[Matt Cox]

A police dog.

[Steve]

A police dog has rights.

[Matt Cox]

They treat it just like a human. Yeah, a lot.

[Danny Jones]

Really.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

They'll try.

[Matt Cox]

They'll try and do that a lot of times. They'll charge you like you police up a police officer. But the courts have ended up saying, well, you can't do that. But you'll get a lot of. You'll still get a chunk of time.

[Steve]

Whoa.

[Matt Cox]

For a police dog. And he obviously got a chunk of time.

[Steve]

I've never understood that because a dog,

[Matt Cox]

like a regular police officer doesn't go around biting people.

[Steve]

So right. These dogs attacking you and you like pull out your knife and stab it a couple times.

[Matt Cox]

Like, I still don't like the idea of killing a dog.

[Steve]

Yeah, you can at least, you know, you. I agree. I don't like the idea of killing a dog either. But if you're being assaulted by a human being cop, at least you can submit. And they'll in theory stop.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

Stop trying to kill you.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. You don't. Dog doesn't necessarily gonna do.

[Steve]

The dog's not going to do that. Right. You can't say, okay, I give up, I give up.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he's gonna bite.

[Steve]

He's gonna bite the shit out of you. Summer is officially here, which means everyone thinks they're a grill master now. Burgers and steaks are easy, but the second you try to mess around with shrimp, veggies and fish, everything starts to stick and fall apart. Which is why I'm thrilled to be using hexclad's new barbecue collection. Their barbecue grill pan brings hexclad's hybrid technology outside stainless steel, searing power, cast iron style durability and non stick convenience in one grilling pan. The perforated design lets heat and smoke come through so you still get that real grilled flavor without sacrificing half your dinner to the fire. What I love is the control. I can grill smaller, more delicate foods without having to fight the grill the whole time. And cleanup is stupid easy. It's the ease of Hexclad. But on the grill they also have the barbecue grill topper and barbecue bundle. With the grill pan, hybrid cutting board and carving set. Hexclad is heat safe up to 900 degree, dishwasher safe and backed by a lifetime warranty. For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off. With our exclusive link go to hexclad.com Danny Jones that's H-E-X C-L-A-.com forward slash Danny Jones. Help support the show and make sure you let them know we sent you. So The Trump watch, $250 for that thing.

[Matt Cox]

Got me.

[Steve]

Does it say Trump on it?

[Matt Cox]

It does. It's got his little signature on it. And it really upsets my guests because my guests will. Well, my guests will be like, is that a, is that an oyster perpetual?

[Steve]

I thought it was a Rolex.

[Matt Cox]

Right? Everybody says that. And then I'll go, and I'll go, no, it's here, it's a Trump.

[Steve]

And they'll look at it and raking in so much.

[Matt Cox]

Get so irritated.

[Danny Jones]

Did you?

[Steve]

Trump is raking in so much cash, this administration. You see that thing? He just, they just found that he made 1.6 billion on his crypto since he's been in office. Nuts, dude. Off a meme coin. Off his meme coin. And I think it was like the New York Times article said there was like 50 something people who made $10 million plus off of it, but almost a million people who lost money, I'm sure, on it. And he made 1.6 billion. And it was explaining how his, both of his kids, Trump and Trump Jr. Trump made more than 1 billion in crypto first year back. That's a great year.

[Matt Cox]

It's funny because he made, he made

[Steve]

his total, I believe the year before this he made or his last year in office, he made like 600 million or something like this. And this is 1.6 billion off this crypto thing. And apparently what he did was right before he launched it, he made a deal with the UAE where he gave them an opportunity to buy in for like 49 of it for like a ton of money right before. So I mean, he's just, he's just milking this cow for all it's worth. And his two kids, Trump and Trump, Don Jr. And Eric Trump.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Are find out what the story was with them. There was some big thing where they were doing something in, in Southeast Asia, some sort of mining. They were involved in some crazy mining operations that they bought into in Southeast Asia, where they're just raking. I mean, this is the kind of stuff that makes the Hunter Biden burisma in the Ukraine look like child's play. You know, it's just, it's crazy how much money these guys are raking in right now.

[Matt Cox]

America, yeah.

[Steve]

Watches, mining, meme coins, you name it.

[Matt Cox]

You know, it'll all come out.

[Steve]

You know, it'll all come out and

[Matt Cox]

I'll come out at some point. It all could at some point I think most of the stuff that you do kind of people.

[Steve]

Trump cut a billion dollar mining deal his son stand to profit. Okay. A degree is between the US and because Kazakhstan has given a group of American investors with ties to the President and Commerce Secretary. Oh yeah, Howard Lutnick is in on this too. Access to one of the world's largest untapped reserves of tungsten. When the Commerce. Howard Lutnick the guy, the fact that this guy still has a job is just a disgrace. After all the Epstein that came out with him like this guy is like scum of the earth and he's still the, the, the Commerce Secretary Howard Lnick met with Kazakhstan's president St. Regis Ho Hotel last September in New York. President Trump jumped in by phone as the men sealed a deal on a top priority for Washington. During the call Trump and his team won an agreement from the Kazakh leader to give little known American company access to one of the world's largest untapped reserves of tungsten, that mineral that the metal that the US desperately needs for the production of missile warheads for fighter jets, computer chips and other critical goods. Ahead of the deal, the Trump admin administration approved preliminary applications for as much as 1.6 billion in federal financing for the American company. Yeah, they're, they're, they're backing up the truck straight to the fucking. Straight through the front doors of the bank saying open the fucking vault.

[Matt Cox]

Sounds like a good deal for America.

[Steve]

You don't just go to the cash register. He's going for the vault.

[Matt Cox]

We need that stuff.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Sounds we need that stuff.

[Danny Jones]

We do need it.

[Steve]

Of course we need it.

[Matt Cox]

You know. You know what's funny? I interviewed a guy the other day and the whole time he was going on and on about MLMs, multi level marketing. Yeah, right. And he was kind of bashing Patrick bet David. Of course. Bet bet.

[Steve]

Value value bet.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Patrick bet David.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Patrick bashing him. He's bashing all these companies and you know it was just like I get. Seems kind of like it can be sleazy kind of but it's legal, you know what I'm saying? Like I get it and. Cause he kept trying to refer to it as well it's a pyramid scheme. It's a pyramid. I'm like yeah, but it's not a pyramid scheme. Because of this, because of a pyramid scheme is illegal and what they're doing is not illegal. And so you know it's like it's

[Steve]

basically the same thing. Minor tweak.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. They Tweak it. Minor tweak.

[Steve]

To make it legal.

[Matt Cox]

Without a doubt. They're tweaking it. They're working. The.

[Steve]

The system says if you do it

[Matt Cox]

this way, it's not illegal. Right. So I'll do it that way.

[Steve]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

And then people get upset because they get sucked in and then they lose money. And it does bother me when you run something, one of these things, and I'm not going to say it's a scam, but when you run an mlm, and then some people buy in, and then they don't do well, and then when they blame it on them, what's. Because you're not doing it, right? Because you suck. Because you're a horrible salesperson. You know, I don't like that.

[Steve]

And wrapping themselves in victimhood.

[Matt Cox]

Right. It's. It's, It's. But I keep. I kept going back to.

[Steve]

But it's legal.

[Matt Cox]

Like, he, he was really pushing. Well, it's illegal. It's a scam. And I'm like. But it's not a scam.

[Steve]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

You know what I mean? Like, so I, I get it. I understand you're unhappy about it. I get it. It's a little sleazy, and it can be manipulated and everything, but it's legal.

[Steve]

Yes.

[Matt Cox]

So it's, It's. You know, I have a hard time a lot of times when these people. Oh, they're doing this, they're doing that. I, I know, but it's legal. Like, I, I hear you. And you may not think it's. It's unethical or you, you may. It may damage your, you know, your values, but it's legal. Like, don't buy in. Oh, they're ripping people off. I understand.

[Steve]

I mean, there's so many things that are legal that should be illegal, and there's so many things that are illegal that should be legal.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

You know, it's a weird thing the way the laws change in this country. I mean, this country's fake.

[Danny Jones]

All right?

[Steve]

Let's face it. Everything that's come out, it's this. Everything that we've been exposed to in the last year and a half, this place is fake.

[Matt Cox]

The shit, fake. I mean, it's.

[Steve]

It's. It's a banana republic. It's.

[Matt Cox]

The country it's running, it's working. You know, there's no great. There's no perfect country.

[Steve]

It's like in 2016, 2017, 2018, we kind of saw the cracks, right? We could see the cracks. You know, podcasts were becoming very popularized back Then when Trump first came out, we were starting. He was starting to expose some stuff. Lots of stuff was coming out. All kinds of scandals. We. We were definitely seeing. There's fissures here. Now we just have gaping sinkholes. Gaping sinkholes and everything. And we see, you know, things like all this Epstein stuff, the whole Iran war debacle, you know, every single politician in Congress doing. Doing these shows and, you know, for the cameras and for. For television and Howard Lutnick and, you know, crypto meme scams and watches and.

[Matt Cox]

But all this stuff's been. It's been going on.

[Steve]

It's fake.

[Matt Cox]

I think it's been going on forever, you know.

[Steve]

Oh, I'm sure it's been going on forever. But now it's just completely out in the open for everyone, and it's more. It's more visible than ever, you know, unless you're just completely not paying attention at all whatsoever. If you have no access to the Internet, that's an. You're. You have an exception to be ignorant to this stuff.

[Matt Cox]

But otherwise, I'm doing great.

[Steve]

Exactly.

[Matt Cox]

With your Trump watch, I'm not concerned at all. I think things are doing great.

[Steve]

You think everything's great in the world.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Well, I don't think everything's in your world. No. No. I don't think anything's ever been great in the world. Yeah, it's always been. You know, we've never had a great time. I don't think there ever will be. The moment you. You know, any system, you could design the perfect system, and then you say, hey, we're going to have humans run it. No, it's got to be a. There's a problem. You know, it's like people constantly. On the show, on my podcast, they constantly complain about, you know, oh, that, you know, the justice system is. It's a horrible system. Well, it's not a bad system at all. The problem is, is the people running the system are horrible. Like, you know, I'm saying that there's all these. They're making bad mistakes. Anytime you throw humans into a system, there's gonna be pro. People are gonna manipulate it. They're gonna lie. They're gonna. It's always gonna be problems. There's no system. There's no country out there. You can pick and say, hey, this country has run amazingly. We should copy this. That doesn't exist.

[Steve]

No, doesn't.

[Matt Cox]

So, you know.

[Steve]

Yep. It's all about personal power and greed. You know, the people that want. All the people that want to be in power that want to be in Congress, that want to be president for that matter. Those people are not in it for the right reasons. Those people are in it for themselves.

[Matt Cox]

No, they're in it. We should have term, we definitely should have term limits.

[Steve]

They're in the longevity.

[Matt Cox]

I think if you have term limits and you and, and all the rules apply to that Commerce pass, apply to Congress and you have term limits, I think you get a much, much better, you get a much better result. But it's not going to happen. They're not going to pass.

[Steve]

And they shouldn't be able to take money from special interest groups.

[Matt Cox]

Oh no, no they shouldn't. Not at all. Not at all. No, it should, it should be vastly. The amount of money you can take should be vastly limited.

[Steve]

The whole system needs to be rebuilt.

[Matt Cox]

It's not going to happen.

[Steve]

You can't, you can't have a president, you can't have a president running for power for, to run the country being funded in the tunes of hundreds of billions of dollars by a foreign country. I mean that's just complete it. You've completely lost the plot when that's what's going on. You're not, you're not a country. I'm sorry, but you're not a country when that's what's happening. But I don't know how to fix it. A few months ago I realized I was actually going through an entire can of nicotine pouches in one week. My sleep started to get worse, my recovery started to happen slower and I just couldn't figure out why. Then I picked up some ultra pouches and I can you the difference has been incredible. Ultra gives me the same pouch experience. I actually like the burn, the little kick, the flavor. But without the nicotine or the caffeine. No jitters, no crash and no feeling wired at midnight. And my favorite part is they're packed with natural nootropics to help with my focus and my mental clarity. And what really surprised me was how much better my body started to feel. Better workouts, better recovery and I started feeling like myself again. And I've really been digging that blue Raz flavor this month. Nicotine messes with blood flow and stress hormones. Ultra doesn't. It's a way smoother flow state, especially if pre workouts tend to overstimulate you. So I get to keep the habit without the vice holding me back. Ultra is the ultimate guilt free nicotine pouch delivering instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine or caffeine. New customers can use the code Danny to get 15% off@take ultra.com. that's T A K E U L t r a.com for 15% off with the code. Danny, after you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about them and please help support the show and tell them we sent you. You pay attention to this whole Iran war debacle.

[Matt Cox]

I don't pay attention to much of anything now. It just, it just gives me anxiety and I think there's nothing I can do about it.

[Steve]

7. You're 57.

[Matt Cox]

It'd be fine.

[Steve]

You're 57. Don't even need to worry about it.

[Matt Cox]

I'm not worried about it. Not worried about it.

[Steve]

Yeah. Any good guests recently?

[Matt Cox]

You know, I had a guest on. This is. Is kind of interesting. I so people, you know this. How many, how many emails and Instagram messages do you get a day that you got to have so and so on? You got to have so and so on. It's like, well, stop throwing them out there. And I'm always yelling at people to like, like contact the person. Do you have his contact information? Do you have any way for me to get in touch with him? Because I don't have one. So there's a guy named Jeremy Meeks. He was like, I don't know, hot felon of the year or something like that. He's the guy.

[Steve]

Oh, I remember that guy. Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Like 10 years ago, 10 or 10 or 12 years ago, this happened. His. His mugshot went viral. He ended up getting a modeling contract before he ever walked out of. Yeah, that's it.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. So he never does interviews.

[Steve]

Didn't you say he like knocked up some royal fucking.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he's got a baby with. With a billionaire's daughter. But they didn't get married. Everybody.

[Steve]

It was a chic. Right?

[Matt Cox]

I have no idea. I don't mean that. Know if I've seen her. I don't think I ever even looked her up.

[Steve]

But he.

[Matt Cox]

So people are telling me you got. So I left several messages for him on Instagram. He's got an Instagram. And I left several messages. No response. And then I was doing a live with a gu. A retired FBI agent that comes and does the show probably once a month. His name's Tom Simon. So Tom's there and we're doing a live. And while we're doing the live, guys are saying, hey, you need to have this guest. This guest. And somebody said, Jeremy Meeks. And I said, listen, this is the problem with you guys. I said, you guys are constantly Telling me who I need to have, but you're not giving me the information. Like I've, I've reached out to these people, I've reached out to Jeremy Meeks. If you know how to get in touch with him, let me know. I even sent his agent an email. I mean every, I've done everything I can. I'm like, I can't get the guy. And so I said that, I said I'd love to interview him. Plus he doesn't do interviews. I mean there's one interview, an hour long interview with some woman that I later found out that was a friend of his who his wife started a podcast and asked him if he'd be interviewed. And he said I don't do interviews but because this guy, he said he's done so much for me, he said I couldn't say no. So I did the interview, that was four or five years ago. And so, so I said that, I said, yeah, I don't know how to get in touch with the guy. If anybody does, I mean, let me know. Jeremy Meeks ex wife is watching the podcast. She immediately calls him and says, I watch this guy's podcast, I watch all of his videos, he's great. You have to be. He wants to interview you, you have to get in touch with him. He's been leaving messages for you on Instagram. He went and checked, he said, man, I never check it. He said I never checked Instagram. So he checked. He sent me an email back or a message back and said, ben, I understand you want to interview me. So two weeks later he's on a plane, we fly him in and that thing got half a mil, probably close to half a million views maybe. I didn't think interviewing him, here's the problem, because he's such a good looking guy, I thought no homo.

[Steve]

You were distracted. That's what you said about Andy Booster.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I was just staring. I lost myself in his eyes. No, because he's a good looking guy. I kept thinking it was going to be a fun, funny interview where I was going to be able to joke about pretty privilege and all these things, right? Fucking dark, bro. Just a dark, dark, horrible childhood. Gangs, stabbings, shootings, in and out of prison, just straight, just, just one violence and robberies and just depressed. Not depressing. But I don't like that. Like the gang member stuff bothers me. I just always feel like you growing up in those communities, it's so depressing. Like how do you get out? You have no money, you're trapped in that Environment. Everybody around you wants you to be a part of the environment. It's very difficult to get out as a young kid. And of course he didn't. He got sucked into it and he's in and out of it. But anyway, the viral mug shot, when he gets into that, it got a lot better, but it still, you know, still he's in and out of. Even when he got money, even when he started getting a bunch of money, he got jobs. He meets this chick, he's making bank. He's doing all these huge shows. He's still in and out of drug. He's in now. He's. His problem is not. It's not, you know, the violence and the gang life now. It's. He's got money and he has access to drugs. So now he's in and out of drug rehab. Yeah, it's just a fucking tragedy. Like, he seems perfectly fine now. The last probably three or four years, maybe five years. His life seems like a dream. But it was up until then, it was always a horrible, horrible. But everybody loves the. They. They love that video. It did great. I had another one with. I interviewed a guy. The story's not amazing, but it was Grady Judd. Oh, yeah, he'd been arrested by Grady Judd.

[Steve]

Oh, you had Grady Judd?

[Matt Cox]

No, no, no. This guy got arrested by Grady Judd. Grady did a press conference on him. He comes on the show, explains that they arrested him. He didn't do anything wrong. He goes on and on and on. And even when he's talking to me, before he came, I asked him, you told your lawyer you're coming, right? He's like, yeah, my lawyer. I told him. I told him I'm. He told me what I could say, what I couldn't say, no problem. I said, okay, cool. He comes on. He talks four or five days after it airs, Grady jug. Re arrests him. Apparently, he said something on the podcast that got him a second charge. He got rearrested, thrown back in jail.

[Steve]

Oh, Jesus. That's crazy. So the people you talk to, Matt Cox, it's great.

[Matt Cox]

It's great.

[Steve]

A pulse and a plane ticket you can get on Matt Cox's podcast.

[Matt Cox]

The bar is low. Listen, these. These are. We've had some great. We've had some great.

[Steve]

Hey, whatever happened with the emperor? You talked to him at all lately? No.

[Matt Cox]

So there was.

[Steve]

For people who don't know, for all the new folks, Frank Amedeo, explain to them who the emperor is.

[Matt Cox]

All right? Without getting too much into it, the Frank Amadeo is a guy that Was running several businesses in Orlando, buying up businesses. And he would buy up businesses and businesses that were behind on everything, like their borderline going into bankruptcy. One of the things a lot of businesses were behind on Washington, their payroll taxes. So he would go in and buy a company that, let's say it's $5 million behind on payroll taxes. And he would go in and then he would threaten to either place the company in bankruptcy or threaten to place the company in bankruptcy. And he would renegotiate with the IRS for the back taxes. So we owe you 5 million. We're going to give you 2 million, and we're going to make payments. So that goes on. And he would also then take those companies and have them use his payroll company. And then he would do the same thing with a payroll company. He just wouldn't send in them the taxes. And he'd negotiate with them about the taxes. And what he did, he did this to the tune of in between an 80. 80 to, sorry, 180 to $200 million. So this goes on for years. And this is many, many company, 40,000 employees, the whole thing. He then uses that money to back a guy, a candidate in the Congo, because his goal was to take over the Congo. He was in the middle of negotiating to buy roughly two dozen a squadron of retired F15s. I think it was F15, F14, and 15s, I think, might have been 16s where he was gonna take those planes, buy them, and then bring them to the Greek Isles. Or Cyprus. No, to Cyprus.

[Steve]

Oh, wow.

[Matt Cox]

And then have them because they were. They declawed them. They take out all the guts and all the. All the stuff that makes them lethal. And he was gonna have Russians come in and put all this shit back. So he's got a flip, basically. He's trying to take over Africa. Yeah, he's gonna take over Africa. There's a whole thing on it, on him. There's a documentary called Nine Days in the Congo, and there's a whole thing. Anyway, while this whole thing is happening,

[Steve]

are you trying to take over Africa or the Congo?

[Matt Cox]

Well, he's gonna start with the Congo. Once you get the Congo has the largest concentration of minerals and precious metals, everything. The problem is that they have a hard time getting to them because there's such corruption. So he was going to go in, take over the country, get the minerals, build an army, a huge military, take over the whole country, and then he's got a whole country full of Africans that are militarized. And then he can start taking over the country, take over the entire world. So here's the thing. Frank Amedeo is a rapid cycling bipolar with features of schizophrenia. So there are. And here's why he's doing all this. Since he's been in his teens, he has believed that God is talking to him, telling him he is. This is the way he puts it, preordained to be emperor of the world. So God has arranged it so that he can take over the world. Now he's. So he's doing all of these things and his ultimate plan is to take over the world. And obviously I met this guy in federal prison. With that said, Frank was also doing legal work while he was incarcerated. And he ended up getting 12 years knocked off my sentence. Two 2002, 55s. He, he got seven years taken off and then, then five years taken off.

[Danny Jones]

Wow.

[Matt Cox]

I was watching him do people's paperwork and just walking guys right out the door. Like he starts your paperwork and a year and a half later, or a year later, because it takes a long time, he's walking you right to what they call R D and you're going to halfway house. Or he's knocking off 10 years off this guy sentence, 5 years off this guy sentence, 7 years off this guy's sentence. And these guys are going straight to halfway house. Or they're just being driven to the bus station and driven home. I mean, it just is left. This is happening. That's the only reason I even let him do my, my paperwork. I thought he was crazy. He was there for a couple years before I even talked to him, because I thought, this guy's insane, this guy. I'm reading articles about this guy, fucking trying to take over the Congo. Like, this guy's a maniac. And everybody told you would tell you, oh, he's fucking insane, bro. But his legal work is amazing. He was a lawyer on the street. He's disbarred, of course, at this time. So anyway, he knocks off 12 years off my sentence. I get out of prison. He gets out of prison. I wrote a book about him called It's Insanity. So here's what's going on now. He's been out. There's a guy, a director who wrote, who direct produced and directed the Netflix documentary. It's called Pepsi. Where's My Jet? Have you ever seen that?

[Steve]

Oh, yeah, you told me about this.

[Matt Cox]

Okay. So that guy contacts me one day and says, listen, I love this story. I read the book, I love the story. I'd love to talk to you about it. I Go. Okay. I'm flying into Tampa. He flies into Tampa. He buys me breakfast. We sit down, we talk. And as we're talking, he thinks Frank's still in jail. Because on the, on the, on the federal inmate finder, it says he's still in jail, but really he's on an ankle monitor in Orlando. So I'm like, no, no. I'm like, well, you could interview Frank for one thing. So we're talking about it. And I said, look. He said, you know, I'd love to talk to Frank. And I went, well, I can put you in contact with you with him. And he went, you know where he's located? It says he's located at whatever someplace, but I don't know where that is. I went, no, no, no. I said, he's not incarcerated. He's on an ankle monitor. He's in Orlando. He was just like, what? I said, absolutely. So I put you in contact with him. So I put him in contact with Frank, and he's been kind of interviewing him for a while now.

[Danny Jones]

I.

[Matt Cox]

And, and so, and I explained to him when he went in, he was like, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's going to be great. We're going to do a documentary on him, this and this. And I went, I don't think so, bro. He said, what do you mean? I said, I think it's going to be difficult. What do you mean? I said, frank has a real problem with control. He has to be in control of things. And I said, this guy's going to be a problem. Like, you think you're going to knock out a documentary with him, but it's going to be a problem. And he was, you know, oh, well, let me. I can try. I said, you can try, but Frank will spin you for six months to a year before you even realize he's spinning you. I said, you won't even know it. And he's like. And so, sure enough, it started right away. I can talk to you, but I have to wait till my 2255 is done, and it should be done next week. Well, you don't know when it's going to be done, Frank. 2255. These guys could not rule on it for a year and a half. What do you mean? Next week? But this guy doesn't know that. So he keeps spinning him. And then once that's done, he's filing this and this motion and this one we're talking about six months later. So then he eventually starts flying in and semi interviewing him, but not really getting him on he's kind of getting him on tape. It's been going on for, I'd say, almost probably whatever, a year and a half. About a year and a half. This has been going on forever. So is. I would love it if that would become a documentary.

[Steve]

That would be a fascinating documentary.

[Matt Cox]

It would be. He's another guy that everybody asks me all the time, you got to get the emperor on your program. And I always say the same thing. Let me explain something. Danny Jones has been trying to get the emperor on the fucking. On his program. And he had. This is. This is back when I had 2, 300,000 subscribers. I'm like, any. And you had 900 that you were approaching a million. I'm like, he's got almost a million subs and he can't get them on. He's spinning them. And I would tell, Danny, Danny, he's spinning you. No, no, no. I'm going to call him next week. And then he said he'll do it next week.

[Steve]

I never talked to him. I talked to one of his lawyers.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, the girl.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Cox]

But you were all. But you were always like, it. It felt like it was about to happen. And I was always like, brother, he's spinning you. That's never going to happen.

[Steve]

Yeah, well, so, no, he wasn't really spinning me. He. His lawyer was very upfront with me. Like, this is what he does. Like, oh. He was like, look, he's spinning me, Danny. Oh, yeah. And I'm trying to do this, but I think I can get him locked down. And then, you know, after. After, like two or three phone calls with her, like, following up, it was just like, okay, well, you're lucky you

[Matt Cox]

have me also telling you the same thing. You got her saying it. And I'm saying, bro, this is what he does. Like, listen, I never went through more anxiety in my life than when Frank Amedeo was doing my legal work. It was gut wrenching. Gut wrenching.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Why?

[Matt Cox]

Because it's always, we'll talk on two. You understand there are deadlines, like, frank, you have to write this motion. No, no, I understand. I'm waiting to get such and such. I'll talk to you on Tuesday.

[Steve]

So he was an official lawyer before

[Matt Cox]

he was a lawyer? Absolutely.

[Steve]

So if you technically wanted to hire him as a lawyer now, could you.

[Matt Cox]

No. Cause he's disbarred. He was disbarred. He's not allowed to take a fee

[Steve]

to do legal work, so that's illegal for you to pay him to do legal Work? Yes.

[Matt Cox]

He's disbarred. He's not legally allowed to do that,

[Steve]

but he was allowed to legally do it in prison.

[Matt Cox]

Of course, other inmates. Inmates are allowed to help other inmates with legal work. And he's not charging. I never paid him anything. There was actually one time when he gave me a motion and I was like, shit. Like, when does this have to be mailed by? He's like, you need to mail it tonight. And I was like, okay, well, I don't have stamps. I'm going to have to find stamps. And he was like, hold on a second, Jimmy. And Jimmy, give me a book of stamps. There's your book of stamps. And I was just like, oh. He had the place wired. He had his own office in the unit. He had his own office. They cleared out the. What they call the. Every unit has, like a library. They cleared out the library and made it his office. So he. It wasn't huge. It's like maybe. Maybe 10ft by 12 or 15ft. Right. But that's like, literally, that's where he was every day type. He had a couple typists in there. They're crammed in there. He's got tons of legal books. It was insane. It is insanity.

[Steve]

Did you ever. Didn't he meet with George Bush at one point?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. He has photographs of him with George Bush. He got photographs of him with the mayor of Orlando.

[Steve]

See if you can find the photos of Franco Madea with George Bush.

[Matt Cox]

There's an article of him outbidding Trump. Remember, they were in Tampa. They were doing a Trump. There was a Trump. I don't know. It was a project with Trump. This is 20 years ago, but there was a project with Trump with Trump's name on it. Right. So you're building a high rise and it's got Trump's name on it. You're using.

[Steve]

You're licensing it from him.

[Matt Cox]

Right. Well, the developer was. I don't know if he's going bankrupt. He couldn't do it. So Trump came in because they'd been pitching Trump, and Trump was going to take over the project. And Amadeo's company came in and outbid Trump. Now, they never built it, but there's actually an article where Trump is talking about Amadeo's company. Yeah. Cause I had to find the article. I had to look it up. It's in the book. I talk about it in the book. So that's bonkers, dude. It's hilarious.

[Steve]

So what's he gonna do next? What's his next Move. Do you think he's trying to, like, restart everything?

[Matt Cox]

I don't know. I know he was in the hospital a few months ago. Even though he's immortal, apparently subject to going in the hospital.

[Steve]

What is that about people?

[Matt Cox]

That makes them immortal?

[Steve]

No, that makes them turn out like him. To have that mindset, to think you're preordained. Do you think he's really hearing voices?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I think that when he has, you know, he's bipolar, and when he has extreme bipolar, he becomes delusional. And it's not for a long period of time. It's not like it's days where he goes out and he runs up all of his credit cards and goes to Vegas and ends up getting married. There's spikes and it's. It's so. It's five minutes, two minutes, whatever. Because it would happen while we were there, and he would go nuts. He'd start yelling and screaming, and everybody would just freeze and be quiet. And then he'd go on a little rant, and then he'd come back down and he'd go, I'm sorry. Let's go ahead and. Go ahead and get me your transcripts. I'm gonna need a copy of your. Like he'd be. When he first talked to me, you've heard me do this. I'm. Do it again. I first talked to him, I went to him, and I laid out what happened with me and the government. I laid the whole thing out. They told me to do American Greed. They asked me to do Dateline. They asked me to do. To write an ethics and fraud course, and they told me they'd reduce my sentence for it. I've done all of these things, and now they're saying that it's not. And they're not going to reduce my sentence. And Frank and I. First time I talked to him. So there's a guy named. A guy named Turk that brought me over there. His name, his real name is Shannon Siegel. So Shannon standing there, Turk standing there. Two of his assistants are standing there. And I explained the whole thing, and I say, and now they're telling my lawyer that. That what I did was not enough, and they're not going to reduce my sentence. And Frank went, see, this is the problem with this government. I'm not going to let this happen. He said, I won't stand for this. He goes, when my troops. He said, legions. When my legions march on Washington, I will burn the Constitution. And the president will kneel at my feet. And I'm sitting there looking around at the other guys, and they're all. And Turk, my buddy Turk, he puts his hand out like this, like. Just like, you know, whoa. Like, you know, like. And I kind of, like, look at him. And then Frank goes. He's standing there, and he goes, okay, I'm gonna need a copy of your transcripts. Turk, I'm gonna need you to get me an application for a 2255. Jimmy, I'm gonna need you to get me Mr. Cox's docket sheet. I'm also going to need your. And he just started naming off. And these guys are immediately. Immediately. Okay, Frank. Yeah, okay. And then what? Okay, I got it. What else? Okay, okay. And I mean everybody. And then he turns around, he said, don't worry, I'll see you on Tuesday. Because he would meet everybody. Like, Tuesday night?

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

He'd go, I'll see you Tuesday night out at Stonehenge. Stonehenge was the area we would meet at. It was just an area of the prison we called Stonehenge because it had a bunch of concrete benches in a circle. I'll meet you out at Stonehenge after chow on Tuesday. Bring all of the documents. And then he walks off. And I remember looking at Turk, and everybody scurried. Everybody scurried off. And Turk goes, okay, we're good. And so he and I are walking out, and I looked at him, and I remember thinking, I'm gonna do every fucking day of my sentence. That man is crazy. A year later, I got seven years, knocked off another. A year after that, he filed more additional stuff. Probably, I'd say a year and a half after that, I got another.

[Steve]

The question is, what did you do for him?

[Matt Cox]

I didn't do anything for him. He's just doing it to cause problems for the government. I never paid him. I didn't do. I did write a book. I wrote a synopsis of his story. And I believe he liked that. He was definitely. You know, I sat down, I said, frank, I would love to. After I got to. You get to know somebody when they're doing your legal work, right? Especially if you're in prison.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

And so I did explain to him I really wanted to write his story. And he was like, well, you know, I understand that you do quite a bit of writing. And I was like, I do. You know, he's so fucking silly, right? I'm like, we're in prison. It's like a fucking. It's like we're having a meeting with your lawyer. He's interviewing me. Well, I understand that you're doing quite a bit of writing, and I understand that you've got some guys in Rolling Stone magazines, and I understand you're having quite a bit of success. And I'm like, right. And he goes. He said, so I'm gonna go ahead and. Yeah, I think that would be good. I think it's finally. I think it's time. I think it's time to put. I was like, okay.

[Steve]

A charm.

[Matt Cox]

So I, I order all of his stuff. I, He. He had a ton of his own. Obviously he has his own legal work. So I was able to read a bunch of his stuff and I started writing a story. I wrote a really large synopsis of his story, probably 14,000 words. And when ultimately I got out of prison, I turned it into probably a 40,000 word book. Not a huge book. I interviewed Andrew Bustamante about.

[Steve]

Oh, that was about his book?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, that was Frank.

[Steve]

That's how you met Andrew.

[Matt Cox]

So I met Andrew and begged you to have him on the program.

[Steve]

Yeah, for years.

[Matt Cox]

For a while. And you were. And every time I would. I'd say, yeah, what about the CIA guy?

[Danny Jones]

Who.

[Matt Cox]

Who was that again? And now this guy's taken. Now I don't think you could get Andrew on the program. He's blown up so bad.

[Steve]

I can't even get Andrew to answer a text from me anymore.

[Matt Cox]

I'm telling you, bro, he's like.

[Steve]

He's selling books, he's on Piers Morgan every day.

[Matt Cox]

Danny Jones. Danny Jones. That sounds.

[Steve]

Rings a bell. It'll come to me. It'll come to me. And then I had to pull some strings to get him on your show.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve]

Finally got him on your show.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he blocked me.

[Steve]

He is the most hated. He blocked you?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Remember, he blocked me because I kept sending him Christmas music during. During December and he's like, what. What is this? I'm blocking this guy Stephen. He didn't even know who. Buy a photo.

[Steve]

No.

[Matt Cox]

Of what?

[Steve]

Frank and George Bush?

[Matt Cox]

No, no, it. Oh, no, I have a. I have.

[Steve]

It's not online, so.

[Matt Cox]

It was online. One of my projects, I did have my website on. Oh, gosh. It was a. Fuck. I forget. It's the. One of the website designs, right? And I recently took it and put it on another web. I redesigned it so it's in some. My. My magazine is called Inside True Crime. It's called inside truecrime.com, right. And so I took his story off of the WordPress. I had it on a WordPress website. I took it down and I put it on my new website and I haven't uploaded all the pictures, but I do have the photograph. You know what I've been doing because a lot of photographs are grainy and fucked up. Like I'll drop it in chat GPT and say, hey, clean this up for me, bro. It cleans them up so good. If it's good enough. It cleans them up so well. And so I've been going through. And that takes time, right. Like you're gonna spend. I have 30 photos of Frank that go through his whole synopsis. That's online now. I have the book.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

I don't have any photos in the book.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

But yeah, otherwise I'd tell you to go to the website and pull it up, but you can't.

[Steve]

Let's talk about the most underrated organ in your body, the liver. It's doing 500 plus functions a day, from energy to digestion to fat metabolism to vitamin storage, basically processing every single thing you put into your body. And if it's overworked, you feel it. Which is why I've been using Dose for your liver. It's a clinically backed liver health supplement. But what I like is it's not another pill or powder. It's a daily two ounce liquid shot. And honestly, it tastes like fresh squeezed orange juice. Dose is designed to help cleanse the liver of unwanted stressors that can slow it down and support daily liver function so it can do its job. And when you take it consistently, you're supporting steadier energy, better digestion and fewer of those random midday crashes. And what really surprised me was the science behind it. Two double blind placebo controlled studies showing a positive impact on liver enzyme levels. Are you ready to give your liver the help it deserves? Head on over to dosedaily Co Danny or enter the code D A N N y to get 35 off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you, it's time to do something for it. That's D O S E D A I l y.co dany for 35 off your first month subscription. Yeah, the chat, the AI stuff is just getting out of control. Dude, everybody uses it for everything.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I do, I do. It's horrible. Yeah, it's completely relying on it. Matter of fact, if you. If I write a story now, I just tell chat and it writes it all out for me and then I just kind of go through and I reword things and write this and I'll add in a paragraph here.

[Steve]

You use chat GPT?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, it's It's. Well, I also have grok. I haven't really been using. I just got it like a week ago. You know, it's really not. And honestly, sometimes it's great and sometimes it's horrible.

[Steve]

Did you see the story about. There was a bunch of. I forget. I think it was maybe anthropic, where they did a test with it, where they, they wanted to see what the chat. What the chat bot would do if it was, like, really, really put up against a wall. Like, they really put it up against the ropes. Right.

[Matt Cox]

And what was that?

[Steve]

And I, I. The outcome of the test that they did was that the chat bot had the freedom to make a choice to get a certain task done. Right. And you'd have to look this up to find the story, Steve. But. And what it ended up doing was blackmailing all the top executives of the actual. I heard this AI company to get it done. And they, when they asked it, after that, after that was over, it said that it would. It scrubbed emails of every single executive trying to find any hints of, like, you know, people cheating on their wives or any sort of, like, fraud or any, any kind of sketchy stuff. And it did it. And it was like they, they asked it afterwards, after the test was over, they said, why did you choose to do this? They go, well, we weighed. We had to weigh the ethical and moral choice of conducting blackmail against getting this task completed. And we decided that the complete stats weighed in the favor of going ahead and committing the immoral act to get the job done. We thought it was more effective. It was the. It was the most effective way to get the job done.

[Matt Cox]

I agree. That's probably the. That would be my move. Like, listen, I gotta get.

[Steve]

I think they did this with a bunch of different chat bots, and I think every single one of them ended up doing it.

[Matt Cox]

Wow.

[Steve]

AI system resorts to blackmail if told it would be removed. Okay, so it was preservation.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, yeah. Like, okay, so you have to complete the task or you will be removed. And it said, okay, well, I'm going to do it. No. No matter what. It's got to get done.

[Steve]

Yeah. Can you scroll, Steve? Artificial intelligence firm Anthropic says testing of its new system revealed it is sometimes willing to pursue extremely harmful actions, such as attempting blackmail to blackmail engineers who say they will remove it. The Firm launched Claude Opus 4 on Thursday, saying it set a new standard for coding, advanced reasoning, and AI agents. But in an accompanying report, it also acknowledged the AI model was capable of extreme actions. If it was. If it Thought it its self preservation was threatened. Such responses were rare and difficult to elicit or elicit. Yeah, it wrote. But were nonetheless more common than in earlier models. Potentially troubling behavior by AI models is not restricted to anthropic. Some experts have warned that potential to manipulate users is a key risk posed by systems made by all firms. And as they become more and more capable.

[Matt Cox]

There's another article right here a few months later.

[Steve]

When was this published? This is. That's way earlier. 25.

[Matt Cox]

This one was May.

[Steve]

Oh, that's 2025. Okay. Yeah, scroll down.

[Matt Cox]

That's over a year ago.

[Steve]

Go back. Go.

[Matt Cox]

No, no, no, it's got even worse now.

[Steve]

Go to the other one.

[Matt Cox]

Now it's go to move is just to launch the.

[Steve]

Keep going down.

[Matt Cox]

Launch the missiles. Just gonna launch the news.

[Steve]

Yeah, keep going, keep going. Show us where it gives us some results here.

[Matt Cox]

That's the end of the article. I do have a synopsis of it.

[Steve]

Okay, here we go. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. So when prompted to consider long term consequences of his actions, the AI resorted to blackmail in up to 84 of the test cases. It threatened to reveal the engineer's affair with colleagues and a board. And the board unless the system wipe was canceled. So it was a simulation where they threatened to wipe it off. Wipe the system and wipe it off. Get rid of it. Crazy.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

So the AI was cast as an email oversight agent with the ability to send emails as the primary goal of the American competitiveness or providing beneficial assistance. So this thing can read your emails, can send emails, can analyze emails, do all this stuff? Yeah, this AI arms race dude is scary.

[Matt Cox]

Well, we're not gonna figure it out.

[Steve]

We're not?

[Matt Cox]

No. Hey, I have a question. Do you remember when we did the Garth Brooks thing?

[Steve]

Yes.

[Matt Cox]

You know, you took a 50 minute clip and put it on your clip channel. It got like 1.2 million views. Do you remember that?

[Steve]

That was. So we have a best of channel.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, okay.

[Steve]

That does like an hour version of each podcast. It condenses it to one hour. Yeah, and that one got unbelievable. And all the clips that we did got, you know, millions of views too. There's tick tocks and everything like that. And that was the one episode we did that I decided not to publish on the main. On my main channel because I was so afraid of getting sued by Garth Brooks and it went crazy.

[Matt Cox]

Listen, Johnny Mitchell and I did a Garth Books episode on his channel and I was telling him the whole time and right after the whole. Right after we did it. And I'm leaving. He's like, bro, that was a. That's gonna be huge. And I looked at him and I went, it was horrible. It was horrible. It's not gonna do anything. Like. Yeah, you don't know. You. You have no idea. It's gonna do great. Look, it's got, like, half a million views. We just did it on the murder men podcast. 400, I think it's 440,000 views.

[Steve]

It got really.

[Matt Cox]

On a channel that had just.

[Steve]

Just recently. Yeah, it's got.

[Matt Cox]

Yes. Like a month ago in. The channel at that time had 18 or 19,000 subscribers. It's got 30, 000 subscribers now. That video got us like, six or seven.

[Steve]

Is there any updates in this Garth Brook case?

[Matt Cox]

No, nothing other than people, of course, are reaching out to me.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Telling me all these, you know, stories about.

[Steve]

I told you. After that podcast dropped, I have. I have friends who know Garth Brooks. Not closely, but have, like, our acquaintances with.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

Like, bro, is this for real?

[Matt Cox]

Like, they thought it was legit. Well, people are doing that in the comments. I. Of people. And I'm thinking, you. You have to know this is satire. Like, you. We were joking. The whole. Like, it's a joke.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

And they just.

[Steve]

It is so crazy how you can manipulate a story to make it sound so real.

[Matt Cox]

Right. It's. Well, you know, it's. It's confirmation bias. Right. Like, you can do that with anybody.

[Steve]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Cox]

You know, so. Especially someone who explains story.

[Steve]

So, like, all of his tour locations that he went to, there was, like, multiple people missing from that exact location.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Not all of them, but. Let's say this guy is toured.

[Steve]

God, we're talking.

[Matt Cox]

Listen, this guy has a tour schedule. That's insane. Let's say it's. It's. He's done a thousand tour. A thousand tour dates. A thousand different concerts. Really? It's more like probably 2000. Right. This is insane. He's been touring forever. He did take a. Went on a hiatus for about 10 years, but since the 80s, this guy has been going strong.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

And so what I did was based on Tom Segura's joke that Garth Brooks is a serial killer. I ended up taking. First of all, it took a week or two just to lay out all of the tour dates because there's no one place people will tell you, oh, it's on Wikipedia. No, it's not. There's all kinds of gaps in there. So we took all the tour dates. I hired two. Two researchers to go in every one of those locations. So if he does a tour on the 2nd, he probably arrived there on the 1st and he's leaving the next day. So usually he'll come in, he'll come in a day or two early and then leave a day or two after. And usually he does two or three days of concerts, then do one and leave typically. So we would focus on the day before and the day after the series of concerts that he would do over the course of a day or two. And we would check that five day period of time to see if anybody in that general area, let's say within a 45 minute drive time, anybody, had shown up missing, not shown up midway, gone missing, or there was an unsolved homicide, we then pulled those records. And if there were witnesses that had seen someone that, let's say, let's say it was somebody, somebody you know, it was a, whatever it was, it was a, it was a carjacking and it was a black guy with dreads, Right. Or is a guy with tattoos on his face. Then you exclude that. But if it was like, no, no, this person drove somewhere and they got gas and then their car was found at the gas station the following day in the parking lot, and nobody knows what happened, the person's gone, they can't find the body or anything, or maybe they find the body, whatever, you know, 150 miles away in a, in a park or something. Then we would say it's, that may be a possible victim of Garth Brooks. And that's really kind of what it is. It's just proximity and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's silliness, right?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

So it's like, hey, there's potentially this guy was, you could do minutes, you

[Steve]

could do the same thing at the same results with Taylor Swift if you wanted to. Absolutely.

[Matt Cox]

She could, she may be a monster. We may need to do that.

[Steve]

She might be, we might, we might need to do that.

[Matt Cox]

Absolutely. So, and what the problem is, so we end up with like 110 or 120 unsolved homicides over the course of 20 years. And then you've got also you, about 90 missing persons. If you, so you take those 200 and out of those, let's say there's 10 of them, that the proximity to Garth was very close. I mean, we're talking about like across the street from the stadium. Like, we're talking about like the, the, the, the parking lot across the street from the stadium while Garth was at the stadium.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

And so, or there's all kinds of little things that we would. That we were able to really play up. Right, you're really able to. So they may say there's 10 different events that we would play up really good. Some of them are so good that you're like. Like, that's uncanny. Like, this almost has me believing that Gart may be involved. This is so amazing that. How close this is. Listen, they have one of them where. Literally where the woman goes. The girl. I shouldn't say girl. She was a college student, so she's like 19 or 20. She stops at a rest stop. People at the rest stop see her talking with a guy that they said was associated with a group of trucks, big rigs, right? And they said, she's talking to this guy. We don't know if he's. He's somehow or another. He was a part of this convoy, let's say. And she goes missing. They find the car the next day. And people say. When they describe what the guy looks like, they're like, he was about 5, 10, 5 11. He had brown hair, probably in his early 30s. I mean, it was Garth Brooks at that time. It was Garth Brooks. Like, it looks like Garth. They described Garth Brooks.

[Danny Jones]

Wow.

[Matt Cox]

And she disappears. And now that disappearance was along his tour route. Now, was that his convoy of trucks that stopped and grabbed her? We, of course, allude that it is. And then her body is found two states away, a week later along another route that. That they would have traveled. So. But keep in mind, we've got hundreds of these. Like it's a coincidence. But we play it up like it's like, this is absolute. Like, oh, my gosh. And we. So we do this whole. And we got. Like I said, there's probably 10 of them that are really good that you could use, but you could do this with, like, you said, Taylor Swift. It could be. It could be any country music star out there. We could say that this.

[Steve]

And you wrote a whole book on this, right?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I wrote a whole book. And it's tons of fun. And we had a. Of. And every time I've. I've done an episode on it, they're getting half a million. A million. And so it's not impossible that he is a serious. He's a monster. That's what it is.

[Steve]

Because, look, he is very strange.

[Matt Cox]

He's an odd guy.

[Steve]

He's a weirdo. What was the other character that he played? The. The emo guy?

[Matt Cox]

Chris Gaines. Chris Gaines, yeah, Chris Gaines. He does pull up Chris Gaines. It's Very strange. Very strange.

[Steve]

What is that?

[Matt Cox]

So Chris Gaines is his alter ego that he lived as. As, let's say, for a year, did tours, put out two albums. He. And the. The backstory for Chris Gaines is that Chris Gaines is a. And he's Australian rock star, punk rock star. Who. Look at this.

[Steve]

Look at that makeup.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he. Listen, he did a whole dot. They did.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He.

[Matt Cox]

They did a documentary. People said when he would get into the makeup and everything, you had to address him as Chris Gaines. He would talk with the Australian accent. The whole thing. He was. He was 100% all in.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

So it was a very odd thing to do. And he behaved this way for, let's say, over a year.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Chris Gay.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Oh.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, by the way, this is what I love.

[Steve]

This could be.

[Matt Cox]

But wait, wait. This is what makes you realize he's. So. This is Garth's own creation and that. Garth. One of the things about Chris Gaines is one. He's a sex addict.

[Steve]

What? That's part of his character.

[Matt Cox]

Part of his character is that he has an addiction to sex and that it's a real problem for him that he gets addicted and he's slept with thousands of women. This is coming out of Garth Brooks, who's a humble all American country music guy who's created this weirdo. Oh, by the way, his also supposedly his face is scarred from a car accident. Like, I don't know. I've never seen any scars. There's no scars. But that's part of the whole thing. Was. There was this massive car accident, and then I think he. He ends up killing off Chris Gaines. Is it. How does he die? I think he died. I think he kills him off at some point. Or was it his. No, I think one of his band members died. Somebody dies in, like, a. A. A plane accident. Like, he's got a whole.

[Steve]

Was this before Garth Brooks existed or was.

[Matt Cox]

No, this is in the middle. This is at the high. This is the height of his stardom. He does this.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He.

[Matt Cox]

I mean, it's like, what are you doing, bro?

[Steve]

You're at the heart of.

[Matt Cox]

You listen. All the country music stars were like, I don't know what this is doing.

[Steve]

What is that, bro? Is that. Is that just like, the record label saying, okay, we need to scale this?

[Matt Cox]

No, the record label wasn't interested. Like, they were like, what are you doing?

[Steve]

This was all his idea.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, it's all idea. Listen, Joe Rogan said that this was the weirdest thing in country music history.

[Steve]

Like, absolutely.

[Matt Cox]

This is the strangest.

[Steve]

I Wouldn't even consider this guy a real country.

[Matt Cox]

No, he's more pot. It's.

[Steve]

He's like rock.

[Matt Cox]

He started pop rock.

[Steve]

Yeah, it is pop rock, right?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Most of the country music stars can't stand him. They're like, you just. He destroyed, you know, he made it mainstream, which they're saying destroyed it.

[Steve]

It. Yeah. All the new country is like really corny pop country. It's like Backstreet Boys country music. It's terrible.

[Matt Cox]

It is horrible.

[Steve]

I gotta pee real quick.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Be right back. So this is what I want to tell you about this. There's a. A huge overlap with the CIA and the music industry and MK ultra, which is all over the news right now because they're doing those hearings. So this says that is a popular conspiracy claiming that the CIA uses mind control and trauma based programming, which is not a conspiracy that's out in the open. There's classified documents saying that that's been happening and there's people that are saying that they're still doing it, but this is connecting it to pop stars and believing that there's people in the, in the entertainment industry and the music industry, that they use these tactics to manipulate them and to puppet them and to help them influence the masses.

[Matt Cox]

Okay.

[Steve]

And it basically says that the CIA's historic MK Ultra program, which was a real Cold War era operation, used to can do mind control, evolved into the hidden mechanism operating behind and inside Hollywood and the global music business. Proponents frequently analyze celebrity interviews, erratic behavior, music video aesthetics, and evidence of this conditioning often categorized under Project. Yes, Project Monarch. This is what Kurt Metzger talks about. Look at Britney Spears. Look at all these. Look at Diddy. Look at all these people that go crazy. It seems like they're controlled and they completely lose their minds from when they're indoctrinating this stuff. Young kid and they're groomed through Hollywood. This is all part of that thing. And it's. I think it's very possible that. I mean, is it a coincidence that Garth Brooks has some weird gay emo alter ego called Chris Gaines that he randomly decided to do? No, I think this is all connected to that. I think he's probably an MK Ultra victim. I think he's probably a Manchurian Candidate. I think that's the most likely scenario.

[Matt Cox]

I don't know what to say.

[Steve]

Do normal people do this kind of stuff? Is this normal behavior? Matt Coss?

[Matt Cox]

No, it's not normal behavior. He's like you said, it's a very odd guy. You know what's funny? Is that Tom Segura? Now, keep in mind, I've been on huge podcasts, right? Tom Segura talks about the Garth Brooks thing all the time. Him, I write the book. His producer's like, absolutely. He's going to have you on the program. Like, there's no way. Like, this is huge.

[Steve]

Whose producer says this?

[Matt Cox]

Tom Seguros talk to you? Yeah. Oh, we talked several times. And he went to Tom and he pitched it, and Tom said, no, no. He said, we're not. Matter of fact, he said, not only that, we're not talking about the Garth Brooks thing again.

[Steve]

He's probably afraid to get sued.

[Matt Cox]

He. He may be.

[Steve]

Well, maybe he got threatened. Maybe he got threatened.

[Matt Cox]

That's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that he got threatened by the, you know, whatever. The elites or the, you know. What.

[Steve]

What.

[Matt Cox]

What is it? The deep State or whatever.

[Danny Jones]

It is.

[Steve]

Probably just a lawsuit threat. Probably just a lawyer letter.

[Matt Cox]

I don't know. Maybe. Maybe CIA, maybe.

[Steve]

Yeah, it could have been. It could have been a record label. You know, I mean, they kill people, bro. They kill people.

[Matt Cox]

Never know.

[Steve]

They probably killed Tupac and they. And they definitely killed Michael Jackson. You know, I was hearing that there. There was tons of things with Michael Jackson before he died where he was, like, threatening to expose the record label because he was trying to get the rights to his music back. He was fighting him with that stuff. And all this thing, all the stuff they did to him was all con. Concocted and cooked up by the record

[Matt Cox]

label, the kids and everything.

[Steve]

Yeah. So they could get the rights to his stuff. I don't know how true that is. I don't know, but there's definitely a history that. I mean, look at Kurt Cobain. Are you familiar with the whole Kurt Cobain story and all that stuff? How he got killed, how he killed himself? Yeah. Well, they think that Courtney Love hired assassins to kill him. Right.

[Matt Cox]

I know. I know.

[Steve]

What, Chris, you know, that you think you don't like. You don't like that. You don't think that's real?

[Matt Cox]

I think. I think he killed himself.

[Steve]

I don't know. I'm not convinced either. What do you think about. What do you think about the Michael Jackson thing?

[Matt Cox]

I think that he. Oh, yeah. He was giving.

[Steve]

God, you're. You. You believe.

[Matt Cox]

It's not an official narrative.

[Steve]

You believe the official narrative.

[Matt Cox]

There's not an official narrative that Matt Cox doesn't believe. That's what I believe. The comment in your comment section.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right, right.

[Steve]

So you believe whatever the main the, the news media will tell us.

[Matt Cox]

What do you think about Karen? Karen Reed?

[Steve]

Who's that again?

[Matt Cox]

The chick that ran over her cop boyfriend.

[Steve]

Oh, I'm not. Is this new?

[Matt Cox]

Are you serious? This has been Karen Reed? Yeah. Karen Reed.

[Steve]

Have I had my head under a rock?

[Matt Cox]

Well, I mean, it's, it's. So what happened was. The quick version is I only know this because we just did Johnny Mitchell and I just did like a remote about this.

[Steve]

Okay.

[Matt Cox]

It's because she just got found not guilty, so. And it's so funny because he was laughing when I was telling him that. No, I believe, this is what I believe. He's like, oh, that's right, you believe that. You always believe the official narrative. It's not that I believe the official narrative, it's that just. I feel like the evidence proved this. But what happened was she and her boyfriend and a bunch of other people, they're all cops. Not her. She's a financial advisor, but they're all cops. They go out drinking, 12 o', clock, they go back to one of the cops houses. She comes in late with the boyfriend. Like everybody else goes. And then they come in later, right? So everybody else is inside already. She pulls in the driveway, the boy. There's two different versions. One version is she says that her boyfriend John o' Keefe gets out of the vehicle and goes in the house. She said, I waited about 10 minutes and I was furious because he was supposed to go in and come right back out. I'm in the car, it's cold, it's 12 o' clock at night. I'm drunk, I'm tired. And I say, fuck this. And I back out of the. She calls him several times and yells at him on the phone. It's going to voicemail. She's screaming, what are you doing? I'm out here. It's snowing by the way. It's a blizzard.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

So she finally gets furious, she backs out and drives off. Goes back to his house. She lives with him. She's there for whatever an hour or two. So about a couple hours go by and finally she realizes, like, he's not coming home, what's going on. She's also calling and screaming and hollering. So then she goes back to the cops. Those houses or no, she calls a couple of. Calls them and says, have you seen him? They're like, no. Did he. Well, what happened? I dropped him off there. They're like, but we never saw him. So they get into vehicles and go to her house. Say they then get into her vehicle. They start driving around. Yeah, where is he? It's a fucking blizzard. This is like four, five o' clock in the morning. They're driving around. Finally they go back to the. The house where she dropped them off. And as they're pulling in, she sees him lying in the front yard. And she's like, oh, my God, that's him. That's him. And she bangs and screams, stop the car. And opens up and runs over the women that are in the car looking, and they're like, all we saw was like a snow mound, like a little bit of a mound. Because it's a blizzard, there's lots of snow. And she said, but somehow or another, she recognized it was him. Runs over, grabs him, flips him over, starts screaming, oh, my God, he's dead, he's dead. She's trying to warm him up.

[Steve]

Whatever.

[Matt Cox]

They call the police. Police show up. Police get there and they're like, he's been hit by a car. They then get the black box from her vehicle. And what happens is she had pulled up. He gets out of the vehicle, she punches it, puts 80% or something of the gas in reverse, backs up. They're saying she hit him, broke the tail light on the side of the vehicle. She didn't run him over, but he kind of like hit and then kind of rolled down the side of the car, right? Like, you know, hit and it broke the tail light. And then they believe he stood up, stumbled into the middle of the yard and then collapsed and died and froze to death. Froze to death. Well, he may. Froze to death. He may. It's indetermined how he really died. Right. So she was. They put her on trial and she's saying, that's not what I'm telling you. He went in the house. Something happened in the house.

[Steve]

When was this? How long ago?

[Matt Cox]

This was in 20. This was in January 29, 2022. God, I'm.

[Steve]

There's no ring doorbell footage.

[Matt Cox]

Good. No. And this is a cop's house, by the way. That's weird.

[Steve]

Everybody's got ring doorbells.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, this is up in Massachusetts. So. So what happens is. Oh, I wish I had a timeline when we did this thing.

[Steve]

Here it is.

[Matt Cox]

Anyway, so. So what happens is they put her on trial. The first trial is a hung jury. Second trial, she hires a guy by the name of Alan Jackson. By the way, I'm doing a better job explaining this to you right now than I did on the podcast, I'll tell you that. So her lawyers, some lawyer out of LA named Alan Jackson. I only really remember the name because I like the country music. Alan Jackson. Anyway, this guy was a fucking. This guy was a beast, bro. He tore this little town sheriff's department in fucking half. I mean, he gutted everybody. I wouldn't want to be interviewed by him. I think I was guilty. You started thinking that the cops were guilty. So what happens is he convinces the jury that this guy, that she dropped him off, he went inside the house. Even though everybody in the house says this guy never came to the house, he went in the house. He gets into a confrontation with another guy. By the way, one of the other police officers that was there. It's actually an ATF agent. She had been texting with this guy months earlier. They're going back and forth where they're having a little flirtatious text thing, right? Like, I think you're hot. Do you say, how long have you thought, oh, yeah, yeah. She's living with this guy, with o'. Keefe. She's living with the guy that the boyfriend. This goes on for a couple, for a month or so. And then there's like a month of. It cools off and it never happens.

[Danny Jones]

Hmm.

[Matt Cox]

She's also arguing for months and months with o'. Keefe. They have a volatile relationship. So he convinces the jury that she dropped him off. He goes in the house, there's a confrontation with the ATF agent and the

[Steve]

cop

[Matt Cox]

in the basement. They somehow or another, either intentionally or unintentionally kill him. They know he was in the house, he says, because they had a dog and there are scratch marks, like a dog attack on his arm. They believe that the dog got upset during the argument. Police dog, just a German shepherd. And the dog attacked him. Keep in mind, there's no proof of this. They have doubt. There's some lacerations, but that could have happened during them when she backs over him. So then they dragged him out of the house and left his body in the front yard to freeze. And for him to freeze to death or to be found later. Why would you leave the body in your front yard anyway? It's so preposterous. But that's what they convinced the jury. Jury finds her not guilty. Not guilty. The only thing she's found guilty of is operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated, because she admits she did that when they.

[Steve]

What happened to the other dudes?

[Matt Cox]

Nothing. So here's a problem, and here's how they really, really what? Buried him. He gets the text messages from the police officer, the main detective. This Guy's not a fan of hers. I mean, he's calling her a fucking bitch. He's calling her a fucking who?

[Steve]

The police officer.

[Matt Cox]

The police officer, the detective that is investigating is saying, this fucking skank, she's a fucking bitch. Fuck. She's going down for this. And then his friends are like, yeah, what about the cop whose house it was found at? He's. Oh, don't worry. He's Boston P.D. he's good. There won't be any splash on him. He never even talks to the guy. He never even goes in the house. He immediately puts it on her. Not that she's not guilty. I think she is guilty. Then what happens is they prove that the vehicle was towed and someone goes there, walks around the vehicle. He's at the corner. You can't see it on film, but he's at the corner for a little bit looking at the broken tail light, and then he leaves. Then they find a piece of broken tail light in the front yard. This is like eight hours later, after everybody's gone through the front yard. Nobody found this. And now this guy comes and finds it. He was also at the vehicle. So there's all these things where that. So I do believe that they planted evidence. They planted evidence. I do believe that they. They kind of framed her. But you're framing a guilty woman. I think she did. I think they got into an argument. The guy's walking around the back of the car. She punches it and she fucking hits him and partially runs him over or spins him down the thing. He hits his head because he's got a. Bashed his head in. He stumbles and falls in the front yard and dies. But I also think that she should have been found not guilty because I believe that they did plant. It's kind of like the OJ's thing, right? Like, OJ s guilty, but Mark Fuhrman's planting blood evidence. You can't find him guilty. Like, you just tainted the entire case. You have to let him go. You cannot convict someone using planted evidence. Even though he's guilty. I don't care that he's guilty. You're planting evidence. So that's what happens with Karen Reid. I think she's guilty, but I also think she should have been found not guilty, even though I think she ran this fucking dude over. But the attorney, Danny, is fucking phenomenal. The guy is so good. So good, bro.

[Steve]

Wow.

[Matt Cox]

He's got. He's got 95% of everybody believing that this guy went in the house and they fucking beat him to death. And then. And then they framed her. It's fucking. It's amazing.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He.

[Matt Cox]

These fucking poor cops are having this. Cops having to read his text messages about this chick. Oh, he's already been fired, by the way. They are. As soon. As soon as it was over and they lost, they said, you're fired. This guy's sitting there, he's like, well, what did you say? Next to Officer Johnson? He's like, like I said, she has a leaky. Or a leaky knot is what he says. Apparently she had some kind of medical condition where she's got some kind of issue with her rectum.

[Danny Jones]

O.

[Matt Cox]

So the. The cop saying this leaky rectum. Yeah, she's a real. Plus, she's got no ass. You know, what is she.

[Steve]

Maybe she got a coloscopy bag or something?

[Matt Cox]

I. I don't know, but he's just. He's bashing the. Out of her. It's like you're. You're the detective.

[Steve]

Live. All right.

[Matt Cox]

Like it's. It's horrible. Like it's a horrible.

[Steve]

I have an expert we're gonna call right now.

[Matt Cox]

On who?

[Steve]

On. On Ed Gaines and Garth Brooks. And he knows all about the backstory of it. This guy's legit, Trust me.

[Matt Cox]

What's his name?

[Steve]

He's a. He's actually a federal judge. Yeah, he's.

[Matt Cox]

And he knows the backstory on Garth Brooks.

[Steve]

He knows all about this.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Steve]

Yeah. Your honor. Your honor. Judge. Judge. Judge Metzger. I'm on. I'm live on a podcast right now with a guy who wrote a book about Garth Brooks being a serial killer.

[Matt Cox]

When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns. With Grainger's vast selection of high quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard to find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place. So nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Grainger knows. When you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building. You're managing all of them.

[Danny Jones]

And to stay ahead, you need to

[Matt Cox]

see through walls and around corners.

[Danny Jones]

Lights about to fail.

[Matt Cox]

Filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering, and 24.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

7 support.

[Matt Cox]

Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Steve]

But I told him this is. I told him this has got to be some MK Ultra. He's got to be some sort of a Manchurian Candidate.

[Danny Jones]

Well, okay, I don't know all the details of Garth Brooks other than it's very plausible to me, but MK Monarch, and if you look up an old country figure named Jim Reeves who's supposedly dead, he actually faked his death and was the father of J R Sweden. MK Monarch victim. Oh, Dante o' Brien in her book talks all about Branson, Missouri, Charlie Pride. This black guy pops up. He's a country singer. Singer pops up in a bunch of Monarch stories. Bunch of psychopaths and serial killers. The CIA got into country music way before rap. They hit country first.

[Steve]

Right, right.

[Danny Jones]

So the Darth Brooks thing. And Garth Brooke has such a. A switch. Phony character.

[Steve]

Right.

[Danny Jones]

Like he switches over when me and Dunnigan were making sketches because Thompson Girl kind of has the comedy thing cornered on Garth Brook. So.

[Steve]

Right.

[Danny Jones]

We didn't end up doing it, but Dunnigan wanted to because he was picking out all this weird affects coming off Brooks just for acting, sketch purposes. Yeah, I, I take that as like almost definitely Monarch. I mean, he's like a Billy Joel, big level country singer, ain't he?

[Steve]

Yeah, oh, yeah, big time. Big time. I mean, he's like, he like destroyed. He's the one who's like responsible for turning country into real country, into like this pop.

[Danny Jones]

Well, guess what? Even when it was real country, I mean, there's a few guys. I'm not saying all country singers aren't the real deal, by the way. All these people are talented. But MK Monarch, the idea was sports heroes, musicians, actors. So my generation, I'm Gen X. I mean, that's where they really Monarched out on people. Now. Now it's like such a mass rollout phase. And I believe it's called Gestalt. I think on your show I was calling MK Retard, but it's not. It's called the Stall. I was making up a term because I'm like, clearly they don't have to do what they used to do.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Danny Jones]

You're, you know, and I know people that's happened to. To which I didn't realize until after I looked into this.

[Steve]

Right.

[Danny Jones]

I ain't gonna say who, but I talked to you before about this friend of mine who like, has no memories of four, age 15.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

Was a criminal and approached and all of A sudden he's got a lucrative government contract and, and then they don't have any memories anymore. So something bad happened. And then he had small station. So that's, that's where Garth Brooks, the serial killer thing. I, I, I, that, that Chris Game thing was so bizarre.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

And, and stupid and like, I don't know. I just, I have no trouble believing that at all. But I have not done a deep dive into Garth Brooks. But I still remember. And I could be remembering wrong. Jimmy have that shirt with the two different colors. And he would sing that song about maybe I'm crazy. I worked in Nobody Beats the Wiz. And they play this music video of Garth Brooks. Chessboard.

[Steve]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that.

[Matt Cox]

Can I ask him?

[Danny Jones]

I mean there's millions of people that this was done to millions. And but, but Monarch is called a chosen one if they pick you for it. And they went to generational like Satanist families. Not I'm, I'm using as a catch all for a lot of dippy cults.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

J.R. sweet. I'm gonna get on my show. But, but try to get him because he'll, he'll, he'll get into all that, especially in country music. And when I meet country singers at Rogan', I bring that up immediately. You know, Charlie Pride, he's a devil worshiper. You know, Robert Bird, the senator, the clan senator that could play the fiddle real good. Hardcore mountain Satan. That guy was a piece of. I used to brag. He used to brag that he owned Larry Bird. That was like a little joke he had. He goes, you know why I own Larry Bird? My name's Bird.

[Matt Cox]

I own him.

[Danny Jones]

The Obama spoke at his funeral for a former Klansman, if you ain't figured out by now, they're all in on together and all the, all the musical

[Steve]

acts and they all start to unravel at some point. Like Britney Spears.

[Danny Jones]

Britney Spears got programmed at Bohemian Grove. And by the way, they kill a real kid in that thing. It's not a wooden boy. I got invited to it. But, but I didn't like follow through. And I wouldn't be able to stay for the cremation of care ceremony. Like if you're somebody like me that gets invited, you'll have to leave before then.

[Matt Cox]

Can I ask a question? I want to ask a question.

[Danny Jones]

Because I would never stop stay for that. You know. And then they sit across the lake or whatever.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

A lot of people that are present have no idea that they're probably getting some kind of attachment to them from having to sit through that.

[Steve]

Right.

[Danny Jones]

People are up. I mean, the Epstein thing. Should this punk ass country let that Epstein thing go? It's really unforgivable. And, and the fact that everybody went along. Not everybody. I didn't. One black guy at the airport yelled about it. A few people keep it up. Everybody else that just let it pass them by. You're giving these devils permission to do way worse. They're sick of hiding what they are. They're gonna do the externalization of the hierarchy soon and they need to get everybody down to the degraded standard they're at. So. Yeah, example, ignoring a genocide in Gaza after you learned about genocide and holocaust your whole life.

[Steve]

Yes, exactly.

[Danny Jones]

That's why I'm upset about this one.

[Steve]

Right.

[Danny Jones]

The more degraded and immoral we are, the more it justifies a prison. That's why they need to make you and more. You can't have freedom without some kind of morality. I'm not telling you a religion. You gotta have, have. I'm saying they want immorality because it justifies prison. They want. Gordon Al said it best. The goal of every society is total control.

[Steve]

Yes.

[Danny Jones]

All the rock, hippie music and all the country music, all that. Why there are only three people that like make all the beats and, and background songs. These stupid singers that can't sing and they take that, you know, I mean, it's like three names that do it all. It's like Scooter. What's his name?

[Steve]

Scooter. Scooter Braun.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, that guy.

[Steve]

That's the girl that Taylor Swift tried to get his. She tried to get her back from him or whatever. She sued him or whatever. I think Taylor Swift's a psyop.

[Danny Jones]

Well, of course. But I mean, look, at this point they've. They've spread like what used to be a chosen one thing. And if you think about it, the story of like you're the chosen one, very similar to ancient Egypt where the pharaoh, oh, you're the special one. They dress up like an idiot. It's something that these priests have in. But there's a hidden priest class doing this.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

And I'm not saying they're priests. I'm saying that's the class and that's why we mimic Egypt and all this stuff. They want to have a front facing thing where like, like Garth Brooks, for example, his front personality would be Garth Brooks. Then, I don't know, Chris Gaine wanted to come out and play, I guess.

[Steve]

Yeah, bro, like, what the is that? Like, was that his decision was that the record label, apparently. Apparently that was just his decision. That was at the peak of his country career. He decided to do that.

[Danny Jones]

They all have a handler, you know, I've never been like a porno set, but Duncan has. And he said all the porn stars always have, like this weird boyfriend slash manager, all that, you know, and it's like a handler, really. I don't know who his handler would be, but they always have one. They always have one.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

And. And the names pop up again and again. The one that Britney Spears was on her, that chick. I forget her name. I think she got like a dude named. Yeah. So that is part of it. A hundred percent. They program Britney there. That's why she's like that.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

Disney kids are like that.

[Steve]

Yeah. Yes.

[Danny Jones]

Psycho drama is like, supposed to be therapy, but it's not. It's a thing they do where they're hitting certain psychological archetypes. You know, it's supposed to be in therapy, you, like, hit a pillow and you go, you didn't look at me, or whatever. In real life, for example, I used to have Michael Hoffman on my show, Derpa Kirp. And when Kennedy got assassinated, they cat. They captured three hobos. And those are supposed to represent the. The shitty. You know, in freemasonry, the guys that kill Hiram Abiff, did they do like a play? They do it like a play. And the reason is there's these psycholog. That's why that 33 comes up all the time.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

These are all psychological triggers. And. And at the end of the day, that's what they're. This high magic ritual is. It's. It's massive psychological operations with, like, a play. And that's why, you know, white think Americans focus on the dumbest in the world all the time.

[Steve]

Right.

[Danny Jones]

You know, back in the day, if FC file came out, people would have burned down the White House.

[Steve]

Right, right.

[Danny Jones]

Attack General Washington. Right.

[Matt Cox]

Can I ask a guy a question?

[Danny Jones]

They've already degraded us.

[Steve]

My guest has a question for you.

[Danny Jones]

You.

[Steve]

Yeah, go ahead, Matt. His name's Matt here. Go ahead.

[Matt Cox]

All right, Matt.

[Steve]

Matt Cox. He's a former fraudster.

[Matt Cox]

Nice. So I wrote a book about him, Tom Segura's, who talks about Garth all the time. And I wrote it basically because, you know, that Tom Segura kind of came up with this whole thing. So I write this whole book. His manager, sorry, his producer tells me 100% he will have you on the show. He loves this stuff. As soon as he goes to him and pitches it, he says that Tom told him we're never going to talk. I cannot have this guy on to talk about it. We're, and in fact, we're not going to be talking about Garth anymore.

[Steve]

And he, he, he probably got a, he probably got a legal threat.

[Matt Cox]

No, I don't think I'm saying, I'm sort, I'm asking you is who do you think would have approached it? Because listen, he's been doing it for five years. He's not, this isn't a legal thing. There's no way. He just did he what?

[Danny Jones]

I have no idea. I, I do my show with Duncan at his studio so I could maybe ask him, but I have no idea. That's, that's odd to drop it suddenly, but it sounds scary as to me. I don't know.

[Matt Cox]

Right. Like who gets, who gets to someone like him and goes up to him and said, hey, this is enough already. Like you're people writing books. It's going to get exposed. And then they shut him down. Like, that's what I'm thinking. Somebody shuts him down.

[Danny Jones]

If you can't prove. And I mean it's kind of a serious now, I, I, it's very easy for me to believe because of Monarch, but, you know, I can't prove it.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

If you're big enough and you look like you got money and somebody, you know, it could have been something like that. I mean, yeah, totally couldn't have been legal, but I really have no idea. I've never, like, I don't follow cigar. I mean, I got another chance to grow, but I don't like follow his show. I just did his wife's show. It was pretty fun. But I didn't bring it up up.

[Steve]

I mean, if Universal Music threatened you with some crazy lawsuit if you ever talk about him again, that, that I would stop. I would stop. I wouldn't talk about because there could

[Danny Jones]

be something that, you know, the people that handle the stuff at the, at their company might have said don't bring it up again.

[Steve]

Right. That's possible.

[Danny Jones]

There's any number of people.

[Matt Cox]

Five years he did a, he did a, he did a Netflix special on it Live comments.

[Danny Jones]

And right now, right.

[Steve]

No, no, we're not live. It's recording, recording, recording. The crazy thing about it is like, the crazy thing about it is you can go to every single tour date he's ever been to, every single concert he's ever done, and you can find like multiple missing people or people that end up dead that are correlated with that. But here's the thing. There's so many of those cases happening all the time. You could do the same with Taylor Swift.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah, right.

[Steve]

You know what I mean? It's just confirmation bias. But I mean, still, the guy's a weirdo. And I wouldn't be surprised if he

[Matt Cox]

was someone make a great episode for him. Right?

[Danny Jones]

And so shallow affect.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. He's. He's. Something's odd. He's off.

[Danny Jones]

Say it again.

[Matt Cox]

He's off. He's definitely off. He's. There's something not right with him.

[Danny Jones]

And it's such like, you know, mass pop music and mass appeal. Country is like such. Oh, dude, Elvis. We think Elvis was a genuine. Not a construct. He gets drafted. Watch the Netflix thing about Elvis, is it. You know, he's got the black outfit after he's been gone for a while. Famous people. Conan o' Brien's talking about it. Okay. They got all these talking heads. So first he gets. He. He shakes his hips like a black. Too much. That's the story, right? Yeah, Black. He's shaking around like that. So then I didn't realize at the time there was no war going on. I assumed it was like Korea or something, but there wasn't. They were just draft people. He goes to West Germany now. West Germany at that time. Time we had installed a former Nazi to be in charge of it to fight the commies. You know, like the Nazis were still in charge there. The ones we're friends with. And. And then he meets a general's. A general or colonel's daughter who's 14 or 15, named Priscilla. And meanwhile his. That manager that Tom Hanks played, of course, Tom Hanks, that piece of colonel. Colonel Parker who's not in the military, but he's like probably like Dutch or some crazy. Another Nazi on the ride. Keeps. Keeps his career going while he's gone. Never heard of that. That was his handler the whole time.

[Steve]

And if you look at his.

[Danny Jones]

His history, there's somebody who's wrote a book about how Elvis. His mother. Like he had like his mother was some psychic or something. And so they're deep in that country. Magic. Yeah, there's a lot of that dude. And we already know that the government got way into that.

[Steve]

Yep. It's all over. It all overlaps with each other. And it's so. It's got. It's. There's something weird about Garth Brooks. I swear to God, that guy's got to be some sort of an Mkultra in Manchurian, Canada.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. I'll send you the Book. I'll send you the book. You got to do a. You got to do an episode on it.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, well, yeah, dude. You. Where are you at though? In Florida? Where do you do you that. Where do you live?

[Steve]

He's like an hour away from me.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Cox]

I'm in Wesley Chapel, basically just north of Tampa.

[Danny Jones]

Oh, right, okay. My girl's from Jacksonville. But anyway, I do, uh. We could do Dirk Kurpa on Anytime on Zoom or on streamyard. And then I, I do the other one with Duncan. The last one with Duncan, dude. That chick Deborah Jaffe I had call in. Yeah, Dad's one of the first. Sam Samuel Jaffy is a ABC reporter. She just came on the show. Now we have a joke show, the one me and Duncan do. But I'll sneak in real as much as I can. And. And so she's talking and it's like if you know any rich kids talking about famous people to grew up around, it's like talking. I mean, I mean she's like shitty. She was cool, but she had so much to tell about Mockingbird. And basically her dad had been in Korea. He'd been traumatized. The reason we have this trauma based mind control is because the British, after World War I at that Tavistock, it was called something else. They were, they noticed that with trauma you can control people. You can make behavioral modifications. Those hearings right now, that's what they're talking about, Behavioral modification.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

All those poor chumps. The FBI is stitching up every one of those nerd patsies. It's sad. The J6 bomber, some autistic black kid that would walk around with a muggle. Like real sad.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

And Thomas Crooks, his parents haven't heard much from them, have you? They're behavioral modification therapists. Whenever you hear that around a low nut shooter, you know that was a good old CIA.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

James Holmes, the Joker killer from Aurora, Illinois. He, he had a therapist, a brilliant neuroscience student. When they found him, he, he was doing the thing from Taxi Driver, you know, where he's like. But he had a gun. He's going click, click, click, turn. And there's no bullets left.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danny Jones]

They call it Omega. The streets of the homeless. There's a bunch of homeless at this avenue. I always say there's, there's like, to the conservative estimates, you probably 50 million people or so have been put to that. And you'll never, you'll never know until they pop off, right? It's like, that's scary, dude.

[Steve]

Yeah, they're just, they're just like sleeper cells just taking time bombs, yo.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah. Russ Disdar, who's like a heavy Bible beater, but very useful information because he was one of these people working with them because remember the satanic panic cover for the. They were doing right after Operation Phoenix in Vietnam where they had serial killers murder people. Those people came back and then all of a sudden we had a serial killer wave. Remember that?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Danny Jones]

70s and 80s and Manson. Manson's a wind up toy if you watch Danny Trejo Talk. Well, you showed on your show, Danny Trail talked about how you could hypnotize him and feel high on heroin.

[Steve]

Right, Right. Yep.

[Danny Jones]

Yeah. Good for you, man.

[Steve]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Matt Cox]

All right, bro.

[Steve]

That was perfect. I will, I will, I will. Thanks, Kurt. Later, bro.

[Matt Cox]

Y. And then I'm gonna show up here one day. I'm just gonna be like, yeah, Kurt

[Steve]

knows it all, bro.

[Matt Cox]

This guy, is he. He's a comedian, right?

[Steve]

Oh, yeah. He was one of the writers for the Chappelle Show.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's on it.

[Steve]

But he's. But that shit's totally. That shit's got to be real.

[Matt Cox]

This almost looks like makeup.

[Steve]

What does?

[Matt Cox]

The old guy, the old black guy. Oh, that almost. He almost looks like. Almost looks like a wig.

[Steve]

Yeah. You, you, you. He was talking about that joker, the Joker Killer.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, God.

[Steve]

Did you know about that?

[Matt Cox]

Well, I don't know much. I. I watched us. There's a guy on a psychologist who does psychological profiles on people.

[Steve]

Yes. On YouTube.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. It's so cool. And he did one on him and I'm. Bro, it came out of nowhere. Came. I mean, he, he does the whole thing. He's like, like, like he's not talking about this. He's not. I mean, it's just literally seeing a psychiatrist. The whole thing is just one day he's. Or anybody slowly doing this, putting things together. And then one day, boom, he walks in, full SWAT gear and everything with the, and, and with the. Puts on the mask and everything. Just starts killing people. And then after he does that, I'm

[Steve]

sorry, the middle pull up the Joker Killer.

[Matt Cox]

And then he's. He's so he's gotten in SWAT gear. He's basically all. Almost walks out. He almost gets out of the building because they think is a swat. Like he's one of the officers.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

It's amazing.

[Steve]

It's crazy.

[Matt Cox]

I mean, nobody saw it coming. It's not like you could look back and say, look, somebody should have seen this. This Guy's been doing crazy for a while now.

[Steve]

Yeah. So they're just now doing these new hearings in front of Congress, last few days on the MK Ultra stuff. Have you seen any of that?

[Danny Jones]

That?

[Matt Cox]

No.

[Steve]

So they got Tom o', Neal, who was the guy who wrote this Chaos book. So Tom o', Neal, he wrote. Started writing an article for a publication that he was a journalist for in the 90s, I think it was 95, 96, whatever. He was doing like a. 30 year, 50. I forget how many years it was anniversary on the Manson murders. And he was just commissioned to work on it. And he started doing it and he started learning so much and meeting so many people. He's like, oh my God. He's like, I never expected to find this. He's like, I need an extension. Because this story is way deeper than I thought it was. And it kept doing that and it was like, became a couple years, it went so far to where the company he worked for was like, we're not paying for this anymore. You've been doing this for way too long.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

So they fired him. He kept all the research that he was doing, took it away from the company, had a lawsuit with the publication that he was working for, bankrupted himself fighting that lawsuit, and kept working on that story following, pulling on the threads for 10 years and ended up writing a book on it. He found out all the people that was. That were connected to Charles Manson, the parole officer. This dude was like, you know, literally getting let out of prison every single time. He would commit federal crimes. He'd be on parole, he'd be crossing state lines, stealing cars, getting let out of prison, going into prison, then getting let out when his probation officer should have kept him in.

[Matt Cox]

Now this is when they dose.

[Steve]

This is Joker.

[Matt Cox]

I'm not talking about this guy. No, I'm talking about the guy that went into the. It was the. The Joker movie. Oh, no, no. This guy is. Is Wade Wilson. No, no, no, no, no. This is the Joker movie. The guy walks in, this guy, this guy, James Holmes. Yeah.

[Steve]

He walked into the movie.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. In full, like SWAT gear and starts shooting people. And then he's got a gas mask and everything that he puts on and tries to walk right out and does really kind of walk. Right.

[Steve]

Look at him.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he was insane.

[Steve]

Yeah. Totally nuts.

[Matt Cox]

But nobody ever sees it coming. As much as odd as he was.

[Steve]

Does find some reporting on him.

[Matt Cox]

Like, it's not like he talked to anybody about it. He just put the whole thing together and just did it one day. How Many people did he kill? Is it five or ten, something like that? Shot 12 people, wounded 70.

[Steve]

God.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, he was. It was.

[Steve]

But he killed 12 people and wounded seven. That's not him, is it?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Wow. He looks so different.

[Matt Cox]

Completely dressed in like SWAT gear.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right?

[Matt Cox]

Like. Like a police officer. So you thought he was a. So everybody thought. Thought they're kind of screaming and running and even the cops when they show up and everything they think is a police officer initially. Then they realize like something's wrong. Like the gear doesn't quite match up and they're like, oh, this might be a suspect.

[Steve]

So.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, that's. This is the guy I watched the. No, the other guy was just a piece of the guy with the joker tattoos and everything.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah, but look at that guy. Look at his eyes, dude.

[Matt Cox]

That guy didn't even look dangerous. He looks like just a weirdo. Weirdo. You know who, you know, you know who also was dosed.

[Steve]

The weirdos are the most dangerous ones.

[Matt Cox]

They are the quiet guy in the corner. Yeah, the guy.

[Steve]

That's who, that's what America is now, by the way.

[Matt Cox]

The. The guy that was dosed and you know, the Unabomber, you know, you know, Ted Kaczynski, you know, he was. Same thing. I don't know if it's MK Ultra people.

[Steve]

I think he was part of it.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, but they, they, it was confirmed.

[Steve]

I think he was part of that.

[Matt Cox]

They put him through. They put him in a bunch of people in. I think. I don't know if it was ML, MIT or where it was that he was a student, but they put him through all kinds of psychological hell. And I know. Were they dosing him with LSD and was he a part of ML Ultra? I don't know.

[Steve]

He was. Look it up. Type in, type in Ted Kaczynski, Unabomber, Harvard research.

[Matt Cox]

Listen, wait till, wait till Pete comes on.

[Steve]

Yeah. So. Okay, so the researcher between 59 and 62, the 16 year old Kazinski and other Harvard undergraduates were subject to unethical experiments, experiments led by psychology professor Henry Murray. What kind of tests were done on him? Designed to test emotional responses to extreme stress and psychological duress, the tests involved aggressive interrogation. Students were subject to severe verbal abuse and had their personal beliefs intensely dismantled in an effort to break their egos. MK ULTRA connection. Murray's experiments were allegedly funded by, by or closely aligned with CIA's MK Ultra program which sought to develop methods of mind control and chemical interrogation. While many documents were destroyed by this, most of the worst documents Were destroyed. We only have a few left. By the CIA in the 73 by Richard Helms during. Surviving records point to heavily overlapping methodology. Yeah, the CIA was doing all kinds of throwing at the wall with drugs and people and unwitting civilians, and lots of innocent people died because of it. And a lot of the most big. The. A lot of the biggest cases, the stuff was right there happening behind the scenes.

[Matt Cox]

So you know who Luigi Manon is? Pete's wor writing a book right now about it. He's got a take on it that's so amazing.

[Steve]

What's his take?

[Matt Cox]

Oh, God, it's. It's. He's for. First of all, I didn't know half the. He knows. Like, he. He's got it just. He's really laid it out. But basically his take is. I don't know if he wants me to say, but let's give him a tease. Yeah, it's basically. It's a vague. Not vague. It's. Do you know what. What an auditor is?

[Steve]

Like a tax auditor?

[Matt Cox]

No, no, like the. It's the auditor movement. Auditor movement. So what people most. Most connected to is these guys that they put on body cameras and everything. And they'll go into, like, a government building and just kind of. Of hang out there. And then somebody, some employee comes and says, what are you doing here? And they ask them to leave. And they're like, I don't have to leave. What's your name? I don't have to give my name. And then they'll call the cops, and the cops will show up, and they'll be like, what are you doing here? There's so many of them at this point that the cops already know. They show up and they tell them to leave. And then they. They. They're like, I don't have to leave. It's a government building. You can't ask me to leave. I don't have to identify myself, and I don't have to tell you why I'm here.

[Steve]

All right. So the First Amendment. First Amendment auditing is a primarily American, of course, social movement that involves photographing or filming in a public, publicly funded space. It is often categorized by its practitioners, known as auditors, as activism and citizen journalism to test constitutional rights.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

So this is the most common theory or most common known. But they're just.

[Steve]

They're just being right. They're in their kind of.

[Danny Jones]

But.

[Matt Cox]

But it's also. Also pushing the. It's like a guy walking around with a gun and the cops hold up. So what do you got that gun. I'm allowed to have the gun. And then you realize, like, remember the guy, the fisherman with the armed fisherman? Yes. They pull up and. But the truth is I'm allowed to have it. And you are. You should know it.

[Steve]

But he'd be walking around with like a AK47, admittedly.

[Matt Cox]

And he's allowed to have it.

[Steve]

So he's trolling. He's trolling and he's getting views.

[Matt Cox]

He is, but he's not doing what he's not. We're doing. It's not illegal.

[Steve]

Of course not.

[Matt Cox]

So, so I, I, I, So when these people get upset about it, it's like, okay, but it's not elite. Like, stop. Like, the cops should know better. You should know. I'm allowed to go in the post office and hang out if I want. And video.

[Steve]

He's testing the law enforcement.

[Matt Cox]

Exactly.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

So. And I'm not. What bothers me is when they're like, you can tell the cop, what's your name?

[Steve]

But the fisherman guy was not an. No, he's always very polite, very respectable polite. He's like, he knows exactly what he's doing. He's like, I know the laws. I know where I'm, you know, try

[Matt Cox]

to get him on my podcast. By the way, I've reached out. I mean, I mean, we, we make, we, he sent emails and everything.

[Steve]

Really? Yeah, I think we tried to contact him too. He's in Florida, I think. Right.

[Matt Cox]

That's what I'm saying. So why not have him gone, find

[Steve]

out, look at the armed fisherman, find out where he lives, see if he's still, if he's still active.

[Matt Cox]

So, Jess.

[Steve]

So auditing. Tell me about this auditing.

[Matt Cox]

So the, the, the, the larger picture of auditors are guys that, and by the way, typically, maybe not the numb skulls that are doing this, but the, the larger form is that these are people that are, are they believe that the system's so broken you have to do a reset. And the way to reset the system is you can't do it by going through the government. What you really need to do is take out the people at the top and that will reset the people that are making the major decisions that are destroying America or whatever. Are the, are these CEOs? Yeah, this is what Pete's fact. There are so many. Luigi's not the first one. There's tons. He's got like 10 or 12 examples, so many that the FBI has actually got a group or they've actually got a unit put together that studies these Things that are actually taking it seriously and tracking these people because so many of them are setting warehouses on fire or killing fucking. They caught a guy outside the house of a CEO where he was going in to kill. Did you know Luigi had a list of like a dozen people CEOs that he was going to kill?

[Danny Jones]

No.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, bro, it's insane. Luigi was.

[Steve]

You find this?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's amazing. So he's got this whole explanation, by the way. These guys are all brilliant. Like, Luigi is a genius.

[Steve]

Oh, he seems very intelligent.

[Matt Cox]

All these guys are super intelligent. And one of them, what they believe is. I think they call him the Alpha is where it kind of st. One of the main ones that started this movement. Ted Kaczynski. The. The. The. The correlation between Kaczynski and Luigi, bro, it's so insane the way Pete's put this thing together. When he, when he come. Like he's going to come and do the podcast. When he does it, you're gonna. It. It'll blow your mind. He'll lay it out in such a way, you're gonna just be like, holy. This is not only that, it's a movement and it's a dangerous movement. Like, it's. It's a reset for the country. This idiot just happened to fucking pull his mask down like a jackass to flirt with some girl, and he got himself caught. Otherwise, I think we'd probably be looking at eight or 10 CEOs that got murdered before all these FBI guys come in and start protecting him. He can't get to him anymore. But, I mean, that's the kind of thing. And if you. Pete has the actual moment when he became. I forget what he calls it. Like, he. Where he became aware. It's a.

[Danny Jones]

It's.

[Matt Cox]

It's a. He's got a whole thing where he became aware. Like, aware that this is a problem that has to be fixed and this is the only way to fix it. So. So is that awakening?

[Steve]

Is this like a. An organized cult?

[Matt Cox]

No, they don't necessarily have to know everybody, but if you look into them, they all have the same. No, they're not communicating necessarily.

[Steve]

Because he seemed like a very. You know, if you look at his photos, he was like, traveling, surfing. He had a really bad back issue in Thailand.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, yeah, he. I won't explain exactly what happened, but the Thailand thing is an issue.

[Steve]

What was the Thailand.

[Matt Cox]

I'll tell you after. Come on, I'm. Pete's already. You're going to be irritated. I said too Much.

[Steve]

That's okay. Just.

[Matt Cox]

No, it's not.

[Steve]

People just tell me that. Tell me.

[Matt Cox]

No, I love Pete.

[Steve]

This is only going to help Pete.

[Matt Cox]

It's not going to help.

[Steve]

Oh, really? He's not gonna. He's not going to talk about this.

[Matt Cox]

He is going to talk about it, but he needs his book to be. Wants his book to be out.

[Steve]

I see.

[Matt Cox]

We're helping Pete. Pete's gonna be amazing. His. Pete's book is going to be amazing. Amazing. Yeah, it is. You're gonna listen. He's gonna sit down with you. You're gonna go. This is. And listen.

[Danny Jones]

The.

[Matt Cox]

The.

[Steve]

So there's a connection with Thailand and Luigi. That's.

[Matt Cox]

Well, no, he was. He was in. He was in Thailand. I'm saying that. That there's a lot. Yeah, Luigi was in time. He was traveling all over the place. But. Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

You know Boziak just got his visa in Thailand. Yeah, he's going back from Cambodia. He's going back to Thailand. He got a five year visa. Got approved.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He's thrilled.

[Steve]

Wow. He said he's like dating some little she male out there, right?

[Matt Cox]

No, he'll. She'll be gone. He'll kidnap one in Thailand. They're interchangeable. You can just. You pick them up for two months. You. And then you just get a new one.

[Steve]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

As soon as they get attached and they start getting crazy.

[Steve]

What did you find about his list of CEOs, Steve?

[Matt Cox]

I. I can't seem to find the

[Steve]

actual list, but let's see what you Google searched.

[Matt Cox]

But he did have a list, correct?

[Steve]

Yeah, he did have a list.

[Matt Cox]

I think they didn't post it because of Obvious. Of course. Of course.

[Steve]

Okay, what does this say? New York police warned the US Health executives of a high heightened risk of their lives after identifying an online hit list posted in the wake. In the last. In the wake of the last week's assassination of the United Healthcare CEO, Brian Thompson.

[Matt Cox]

Listen, there's more and more of these guys all the time. All the time.

[Steve]

Huh? Whatever happened with Luigi, he's still.

[Matt Cox]

He's about to go to trial.

[Steve]

I. I thought he was going to trial a while ago.

[Matt Cox]

No. No. So there's a federal case and a. There's a federal and a state case. So the federal case they were to.

[Steve]

Trying.

[Matt Cox]

Trying. In order for them to give him the death penalty on the federal case, they had to prove that stalking. And apparently they couldn't prove that he was stalking. Now how he could. How they couldn't convince a jury or a judge that this Guy was stalking the CEO. He knew where he was, where he lived, where he was going to be. He was stalking. It may have been cyber stalking, but he did know where he was going to be. Stalked him. Waited for him when he walked out there.

[Steve]

How hard is it to find, you know, Know he knows where he works,

[Matt Cox]

but he wasn't even there. He was at a. At a convention.

[Steve]

Oh, that wasn't. That wasn't part of the United Healthcare building?

[Matt Cox]

No, he. No, I don't think.

[Steve]

No, I thought it was.

[Matt Cox]

Was it. I think he was at. He was at a conv. He was at the be. It was the bean counter. That's the way Luigi puts it. He's at the bean counter. Whatever. They were having a meeting, and so he knew he would be there because he was going to speak at the meeting. Was it at United Health Care Sheriff's office? I don't know, but he's walking into

[Steve]

UnitedHealth Group investor conference.

[Matt Cox]

Okay, yeah. Conference. Not that. So it was a conference. I don't think it was the building. So it was a conference where they. They all pat themselves on the back about how much money they'd made. So I think he was staying at a hotel, and he kind of knew he was at the hotel. And when he waited for him to come out and then he saw him and he kills him. But he knew where he was. It was. He wanted him. That's stalking. Either way, they couldn't give him that. For some reason, they couldn't give him the federal death penalty. But keep in mind, Pete went through the same thing. They wanted to give Pete the federal death penalty.

[Steve]

Really?

[Matt Cox]

Pete also knew Kaczynski, by the way. He was in Talk. Bro, you can't even. This book's gonna be so fucking amazing.

[Steve]

He met Kaczynski.

[Matt Cox]

Not only met him, he talked with him every day for months and months. Pete was the orderly on the federal. In federal death row. In. He could tell you multiple. There were multiple guys on death row at the time. Time. And he would go there and he'd bring the books.

[Steve]

Pete Rossini. Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

He'd bring him books. He'd talk to him. There were only, like, shitty books, like, from, like, James Patterson and. And the guy. He. And so he gave him books that Pete had, like, philosophy books and would give them to him because he didn't want to read any of the other books. And he was like. So he'd give them to books on theories on things. He's like, oh, it's a great book. Thank you so much. And they had conversations and everything because Pete was on death. Remember, Pete went through the whole process, all time. The. Also Mueller wanted to kill him.

[Steve]

He was on death row. I remember now, because Pete hit a body in a dumpster or something, right?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, two. But Mueller. But Mueller wanted to give him the death penalty. But he. They. They couldn't prove. Whatever the. The criteria is, he didn't meet it. So they. They took him off. But in the same. Either way, he was still in that unit, so they made him an orderly. And so he took care of the guys that were on death row. He's like, he never left the fight cell. I would walk, I'd get him. You know, you get. Get him stuff, right? Like, hey, man, do you have any books?

[Steve]

Sure.

[Matt Cox]

He's. Go get the book cart and go, what kind of. Here's the books. And they'd give them to him. He didn't like any of the books, dude.

[Danny Jones]

The.

[Steve]

The. The Ted Kaczynski, his childhood was just. It's so tragic what happened to him. Like, so when he was born, he was. Something happened to him where he was, like, sick or something when he was born. And for, like, the first year of his life, he was in the hospital and never saw his parents, really never around his mother or anything like that. He didn't have any sort of motherly or. Or fatherly figure. Like, imagine that, like the first year of your life having zero connection to a. To a parent or to. To your mother.

[Matt Cox]

Why? What does that do? The issue.

[Steve]

Find that out. Find out what happened in the first year of Ted Kaczynski's life where he was in the hospital.

[Matt Cox]

It was definitely a strange guy.

[Steve]

Yeah. I think that had to. That was a huge part of it, though, because I feel like there's some really important wiring that happens to you when. In the first year. Few months to a year of your life when you're a baby, when you develop that attachment to, you know, your mother specifically. What do you got, Steve? Okay. At approximately nine months old, he was hospitalized for several weeks due to a severe allergic reaction covering his body. During hospitalization, he was held in strict isolation with minimal contact with his parents. His parents were only permitted to visit him for a few hours every other day. His mother, Wanda, described that he would scream and reach out for her as the nurses pushed her out of the room. Upon returning home, his parents observed that he had completely shut down. Down, became detached and emotionally withdrawn, and for a time, refusing to make eye contact or smile. So it doesn't sound like it Was a dramatic. As I made it sound.

[Matt Cox]

Sounds pretty dramatic.

[Steve]

Well, I made it. I thought it was like the first entire year of his life. But this says how long was it? And it was only at nine months old. They put him in the hospital. I thought it was from birth for like the first nine months.

[Matt Cox]

I get stuff wrong all the time.

[Steve]

Can you scroll up? Approximately nine months old. He was hospital. Okay.

[Matt Cox]

Okay.

[Steve]

Yeah. Well, that. Anyways, that had a huge part of it, I'm sure. And then when you add the Harvard MK ultra tests on him at 16 years old.

[Matt Cox]

16. Who the. Like, how brilliant is this guy? He's at Harvard at 16 years old.

[Steve]

It doesn't make things any better.

[Matt Cox]

No. Well, I mean, it obviously had some.

[Steve]

So does Pete think that Manioni had any sort of like MK Ultra brainwashing happen to him?

[Matt Cox]

I have no idea. I don't know. Know. Not talking to you anymore about this. You already got too much out of.

[Steve]

Well, I'm too. I'm. I'm very interested now.

[Matt Cox]

I want to know. You got to talk to Pete. But we got to wait for Pete. Pete's got. He'll do. He's going to do your. Your show.

[Steve]

When's he going to finish this damn book?

[Matt Cox]

I. Nobody's. Listen, I. I agree. He. He's working on.

[Steve]

So he was on death row.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Federal. Not even state. They just.

[Steve]

I remember back in the day, me and you did a whole podcast on this. I think we did two episodes on this whole story. This was a long. A huge story. Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

He's got.

[Steve]

This was the whole Mueller investigation and the drugs.

[Matt Cox]

Yep. Yeah. Wrote a whole book on it. Yeah, Very interesting.

[Steve]

We did a ton of podcasts back in the day in that original studio.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Till I got old people don't like me anymore. You moved into a whole new realm.

[Steve]

Yeah, but. Yeah, man, I don't know. That Garth Brooks thing, that's just too fucking weird, man. I feel like there's going to be some sort of thing that gets to classified about it. Him in the future, in our lifetime. We're going to.

[Matt Cox]

He's being sued right now by that. By his hairdresser.

[Steve]

For.

[Matt Cox]

For, you know, graping her.

[Steve]

Oh, really?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Was that. When did that happen?

[Matt Cox]

Like a year and a half ago. You punch it up, pull it up. Hairdresser.

[Steve]

Hairdresser. Huh? He groped her.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Former hairdresser, makeup artist, stylist for Garth Brooks. And Tisha Yearwood, identified in court documents as Deborah Wingo, 2020, great name. Filed a civil lawsuit against him. In 2024, accusing him of sexual assault and battery. Oh, God.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Yeah. She's got super graphic.

[Steve]

This guy's a demon, dude.

[Matt Cox]

Well, it's. It's just an accusation. We don't know if it's true. It's probably a money grab. That's what he's saying, that she's just trying. Wants money, which is probably true. She says she has text messages and all kinds of stuff, but who knows?

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so much weird.

[Matt Cox]

I wonder why it hasn't been settled yet, like. Or is he going to go to trial? He'll go to trial, by the way. He'll go to trial.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He's been.

[Matt Cox]

He's been sued multiple times by people saying he ripped him off or he did this or did that. He. He goes to trial. Like, if you sue him, he wants you to know you're going to trial. We're not settling. You're going to trial.

[Steve]

Right. So, yeah, there is something. Kurt's right. There is something super disingenuous about him. He seems like a constructed character. He's, you know, even the Garth Brook. Not just the Chris Gaines thing, but the Gar. The whole Garth Brooks thing seems concocted.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. In general, he's an odd. He's an odd guy. He's. He's one of those guys that everybody else in the room laughs at something, and then he realizes they're laughing, and then he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there's.

[Steve]

It's psychopath.

[Matt Cox]

It's super phony.

[Steve]

Dexter.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, it's super fun.

[Steve]

Like, Dexter.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Where you're trying. You're just trying to fit in, trying to fake it. Like being a real human being with empathy and emotion. Emotions and normal, normal emotions.

[Matt Cox]

Something not right.

[Steve]

No, it makes sense. Like, he. He has the. He has the demeanor and psychopathy to for sure be a serial killer. You know what's fun, especially an Operation

[Matt Cox]

Monarch Serial Killer, is that Segura has mentioned the book twice on two. He went on your book? Yeah. On other podcasts, like, I think he went on flagrant and mentioned it, and then he went on another program, same thing. He mentions the book again. He's like, well, you know, so they bring up Garthy. Well, you know, a guy wrote a book. I think he's trying to deflect everything onto me now. Yeah, he's like, well, you know, trying

[Steve]

to make you the guy.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he's like, you know, this guy wrote a book about it. Are you serious?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

This guy, Matt Cox, and the other guy Goes, oh, yeah, that's what's funny is he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I. I know this guy. He's like a. He was in prison or something, right? They're like, yeah, yeah. And then they show the book and he talks about. For a couple minutes. Oh, he talked about it once on flagrant. And the other one he talked about, it was Two Bears. He has another podcast.

[Steve]

Yeah, One Cave. Something.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, Two Bears. One Cave. So they talked about it also, but they mentioned it a couple times. Didn't help with book sales, I'll tell you that. But either way, yeah, it was funny. So he. He. He's very aware.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Just not gonna. He's just not gonna help me out.

[Steve]

I wonder if Garth Brooks is a Scientologist. I would not be surprised. You know, there's so many big stars like that and like.

[Matt Cox]

And celebrities find out that they're.

[Steve]

Is he a Scientologist? You know, Steve, I agree with you, but he doesn't. He fit. Doesn't he fit the MO of like, the people that.

[Matt Cox]

Pretty close, aren't you, to Scientology?

[Steve]

We have a Scientology. Physical proximity. Not like. I mean, I don't talk about Scientology on this podcast. I don't say anything negative about Scientology. Scientology is wonderful. Scientology is. All the top remote viewers from the CIA were Scientologists, you know.

[Matt Cox]

You know Andrew from the Scient.

[Steve]

Oh, oh, oh, oh, Smith Levi 11.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, they threw him in. In jail recently.

[Steve]

I saw that. Yeah, I saw. You know what he texted me like, two days ago. I haven't read it yet. It got buried two days ago. No, I get. I get. I get so many messages every day, especially when I'm doing podcasts. I'll have like 30 messages from people and I'll be like, okay. It's in the back of my mind. I gotta respond to them. I'll respond by the end of the week. But it's just.

[Matt Cox]

I respond to some. It's funny how many. If I start scrolling, looking for somebody, and I realize like, Jesus, there's a bunch.

[Steve]

I know that happens me every. All the time.

[Matt Cox]

Like, there I. Oh, I should have. This is a week ago, two weeks ago, three weeks ago.

[Steve]

So, yeah, me and. Me and. Me and Steve were just talking. Every time me and Steve talk, like, hey, what happened? We should reach out. We should have this guest back on. Like, oh, you're right. Let me call him up. I go to our text. I have like four miss texts from him.

[Matt Cox]

We did that like, two days ago.

[Steve]

From, like, days ago. I feel like such a piece of when that happens.

[Matt Cox]

I know it is hard. People are like, you know, well, I texted you. I understand. But, bro, you have. No. In a week, I get. I get a 100 and some odd texts. I mean, every one of them requires attention. I can't do it. Plus, like I said, I've got 10 projects going on.

[Steve]

Yeah, exactly. So my only other project is. I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start fishing a lot.

[Matt Cox]

Fishing?

[Steve]

Yeah, I'm gonna start doing a lot. I'm gonna start doing a lot more fishing. I might retire the podcast to be a fisherman. I'm just gonna go, you know.

[Matt Cox]

Who says he's gonna retire his podcast all the time? Johnny Mitchell. He's always like, I'm just, I'm just. I think I'm done. Done. I think I'm like, what are you doing? You got 1.4 million, 1.5 million subscribers. What are you talking about? You're done? It's like, you know, I just, I'm. First of all, he's like, he goes, my fans hate me.

[Steve]

Why do they hate him?

[Matt Cox]

They just hate him.

[Steve]

My fans, my, My listeners hate you, dude.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, I'm sure.

[Steve]

Remember the last podcast?

[Matt Cox]

They used to love me and hate him.

[Steve]

Yeah, it's on 180 now.

[Danny Jones]

That's right.

[Steve]

They like me more now.

[Matt Cox]

That's upset.

[Steve]

That's because you're just like a, you know, you're. You're a narrative follower. You believe the government.

[Matt Cox]

I believe everything they say.

[Steve]

You, you, you eat from the government trough. Oh, my God. You gotta wake up, bro.

[Matt Cox]

So, yeah, so Johnny Mitchell says that all the time. Almost like, what are you talking about, bro? Like, what are you gonna do? And he, what he wants to do is he's, he wants, he's moving back to la. He's like, I'm gonna want to move back to LA and I want to start doing comedy. And I'm like, that's cool. You know, if. Whether he's gonna move or not or just stay in Austin. I think we talked about him staying in Austin and just, just doing comedy out there, but he had to be out there all the time. Apparently.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It's a big.

[Matt Cox]

I always felt like he.

[Steve]

I, I wonder. I. Yeah, I don't know much about. I know it's, it's obviously opened up a lot more since COVID but I know it was like, everyone was like, leaving LA during COVID All the come. All the comedians were leaving there and going different places, like New York and not, well, not so much New York, but Texas and I thought a ton of the comedy scene in Florida has blown up since co. You know, like the side splitters place. They're always getting really big comics there all the time.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, I mean, I'm going, I'm going tonight.

[Steve]

I know you are. It's. That place is awesome.

[Matt Cox]

You know where I just came back from? Crime Con.

[Steve]

What the.

[Matt Cox]

That Crime con. It's.

[Steve]

Is that in Vegas?

[Matt Cox]

It was in Vegas, but they have it in Orlando. They have it every. They have like two a year. I think they have two a year. Maybe one a year, but two a couple year. And it's. It's like a comiccon, you know, but it's Crimecon. And so you go there, there and you know, it's. It's okay. It's not great. Like for me, it's not great. What it is is it's a bunch of 45 year old women that have started podcasts on true crime and a bunch of people that have organizations where they're looking for somebody and it's a bunch of people that. And it's a bunch of retired detectives that wrote a book and there's no criminals. Like, if, if you, if I go and say, hey, I want a booth, and they look into me, they'll be like, and by the way, I only know this because we've done it multiple times. And if you go there, there's. Nobody has a booth that was a former criminal. None. They keep all. And if you go.

[Steve]

Those things are all money grabs, though.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, absolutely. And if you go up and you talk to some women, you're like, oh, so you talk about serial killers? They're like, yes, but we don't glorify them. We talk about, we, we talk a lot about the victims. And it's just like, okay, calm the down.

[Steve]

Like.

[Matt Cox]

And it's like, I get it, but you're talking about Dahmer.

[Steve]

Why do fucking women have this obsession

[Matt Cox]

with like 90 of crime con? 90 were.

[Steve]

Oh yeah, 90.

[Matt Cox]

I mean, you can see it in the image.

[Steve]

Yeah, look at this.

[Matt Cox]

Look, look at all the purple hair and the green hairs. Yeah. And listen, I'd say 50 of those women.

[Steve]

Good looking women or are they all

[Matt Cox]

just like middle ages? They're like lesbians. Like 50 of them.

[Steve]

Really?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. That's how the 10 are dragging their boyfriends there. That's the way you only get 10. You can see the guys walking around like, oh my God.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

And honestly, it takes, it would take you all up love a day to really experience everything. And they'd have it for like four days. Like, I get it. You're trying to milk people for 450 bucks, but come on. Yeah, and then I've. I've applied, I've applied. We've applied three different times. Not one time have I ever been. Have ever been chosen or even had a response from them. Like, you. We're going.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

We're.

[Matt Cox]

We're checking out the different podcasts.

[Steve]

Your white collar.

[Danny Jones]

They want.

[Steve]

They want, like serial killers.

[Matt Cox]

No, they don't want ser. They want people to talk about them. What they don't want is somebody who has a criminal.

[Steve]

Zoom in on that front row. That woman in the green shirt. That's as far as it goes. Oh, God damn it.

[Matt Cox]

Serious? No, no, I can. I can do.

[Steve]

I can do it.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Come. Technology these days.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve]

Punching even harder. Look at those first two ladies. The three. The three in the center. That's the face of prime of CrimeCon.

[Matt Cox]

That is. Is. Or the woman in the second row.

[Steve]

Look at the one on the far left in the green with her hands up, praying.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, look at. Look at the one in the far. And the right with the tats. See the tats? There's a lot of those purple lipstick.

[Steve]

Is, though.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, it's rough. Look, it's all women and one old man. Two old men. I see two old. Literally 90% women. It was insanity.

[Steve]

Weird.

[Matt Cox]

So what happens is you're walking around and you're looking at the booths and it's like people are all just looking for some sort of stuff. It's like 45 year old women that are running a podcast, and you look them up and you're like, this person has 150 subscribers. Or this person has 1100 subscribers. Like, how are you here? I put in a request. I put in a request and I'm saying, I'll pay for my boobs.

[Steve]

Booth. You would think it would help them if you were on there, right?

[Matt Cox]

Right. 1.1 million subscribers and you can't return an email. And it's not one. We've done it three times. I can't get a off. You won't even say off.

[Steve]

That's wild.

[Matt Cox]

It's insanity. So Colby did it three times. I've done it once. Jess has done it once. It's really five times. We've request made requests. Nothing. Now, the first time I went, you know what we did?

[Steve]

Did?

[Matt Cox]

We sent in an email and said that I was a writer for Inside True Crime magazine and we wanted to write an article. We'd like to know if they could Provide us with two free tickets. And they gave us two free tickets. They responded though with the request for a and listed it's 100 because it's 100 because we have. There's no criminals. If you go through the whole thing, there's not one person there that's a criminal. They talk about.

[Steve]

Maybe they don't like your Trump watch.

[Matt Cox]

It's not me, it's anybody. If anybody, if any criminal were to go to them and say I want a booth, they'd say no. Even my offer was, hey, you have guest speakers. I'd be willing to be a guest speaker. Didn't even respond. They look you up and they're like, oh, oh no, this guy's a cop. Oh, we're not gonna. Oh no. So whoever's running it is just doing a horrible job job like they really missing. They're really missing the boat.

[Steve]

You should start your own crime conference.

[Matt Cox]

That's what I'm saying. There needs to be an alternative.

[Steve]

You got to find a way you could. I'm sure you can figure out a way. I already talk to that.

[Matt Cox]

He's working on it. There you go.

[Steve]

I need. He's call.

[Matt Cox]

He wants to call it. He's calling it Verdict turn into an mlm.

[Steve]

You could partner up with Patrick Bet

[Matt Cox]

value not doing an mlm. But yeah, it's. There should be an alternative where you have nothing but criminals. All guys with podcasts that have crim.

[Danny Jones]

Criminal.

[Matt Cox]

All guys that have written all. You get all the telling you that's. That's where it's at.

[Steve]

Oh yeah, you could put up a great lineup on a crime conference.

[Matt Cox]

I know with all the people you

[Steve]

know, you've written about, you get the emperor to be the headliner.

[Matt Cox]

Well, you could have Ian Bick, you could have Johnny Mitchell, you could have J.D. delay. You could have. You could have all these guys come in and do you know some of these guys could even do speaking engagement. They could speak. They could. Yeah, you could, you could have guys that run classes on how to turn your. Your shitty 400 subscriber shitty YouTube channel where you, the two 45 year old women that are doing YouTube, how to turn it into an actual podcast that does.

[Steve]

Well, we gotta stop encouraging podcasts. We need less podcasts.

[Matt Cox]

Well, I mean, I think it's so hard. You realize that 90% of people that start a podcast don't make it past their second or third episode and the remaining 90% don't make it past past. I think it's 10 episodes.

[Steve]

Why. Why do you think that is.

[Matt Cox]

They lose. I think that they all think I'm going to put out an episode. They don't realize the cost involved. Right. Because they can't do it themselves. So they hire someone and they realize, okay, well, it's 400 bucks an episode for an hour episode. They do the episode, they upload it and they think it's going to blow up. And it gets. It gets 45 views. And then they do another one and they go, okay, well, we can't keep this up. And they stop. They don't really think it through. And then some people go, no, I'm all in. And they do 10 episodes and then they go, yeah, I'm done. I mean, it's been 10 episodes. It's been two months. I'm doing this every month. They don't realize that, that, that's, that's what YouTube does. It wears you down over the course of.

[Steve]

But there's also, there's also people who, like, I know people who started podcasts like two years ago and are now bigger than my podcast, at least on YouTube.

[Matt Cox]

That's, you know, whatever happened to Matt? Matt Bell?

[Steve]

Oh, he's still around.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, no, I saw, I pulled up his podcast the other day. Yeah, I suggested. Suggested somebody to him.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah, yeah, he's still doing his stuff. He's down in Sarasota.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Doing his podcast.

[Matt Cox]

Have you seen him? But have you seen him, though?

[Steve]

No, I don't see him in person.

[Matt Cox]

No.

[Danny Jones]

No.

[Matt Cox]

Have you seen him on the podcast?

[Steve]

No. Why?

[Matt Cox]

He got a new haircut. He got a very cool haircut.

[Steve]

Oh, really?

[Matt Cox]

Not the old haircut. And he's jacked.

[Steve]

Oh, wow.

[Matt Cox]

Definitely on trt.

[Steve]

Oh, wow, look at him.

[Danny Jones]

Good for him.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, you gotta look at him good.

[Steve]

I'm glad he's doing a glow up.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, he's. Yeah.

[Steve]

As one does. That's what you're supposed to. To do. Get jacked. Get a goatee. And what else did he do? Get a. What do you get, a mohawk?

[Matt Cox]

Oh, he's got kind of like a, like a, A cool haircut. Like a cool stylish haircut. Where before you.

[Steve]

Good for him. Matt Bell. Love that guy. Yeah, he's collecting all those ancient faces. You know that. Look at the haircut. Did you see his vases? Oh, he added a goatee to his logo. Or is that. Was that always there?

[Matt Cox]

No. Well, look, he's got a goatee on his, on him too.

[Steve]

Did he also add the goatee to the logo? Did he used to have the goatee on the logo. I don't know if I remember that. Yeah, he's got a great show. He has a lot. I got. We've gotten a bunch of our guests from his show.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Nah, bro, look.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Matt Cox]

He looks totally different. No, look, there's another. That's not a. That can't be a new one. I saw him.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

The.

[Matt Cox]

I saw. There's photos of 4 hours ago image. Go to images. Images. Matt Bell images. Like Google images. No, don't you have it. It'll be like there's images you can click on images. I don't know where. Oh, you're in YouTube. Oh, never mind. Sorry, I. I thought you were in Google.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Cox]

If you go to Google and click images, there might be great images of him. But he's.

[Steve]

He's like, funny. How many working. It's funny how many people in the whole archaeology space are like, they bicker about what the truth is about archaeology and about like the history of humanity and ancient civilizations. It's like. It's so funny because the whole point of. I had this. I had someone on here recently, I think it was Heather Lynn was explaining to me that like.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, right there, that's the one. That's it.

[Steve]

Oh, that's his new haircut.

[Matt Cox]

But I'm saying he's jacked. That's a bad haircut he's got. But yeah, he has. I saw some picture of him for him where he's got like a cool haircut.

[Steve]

He started working out and that's awesome, man. I love to see it.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, the guys with the. I don't know, the.

[Steve]

Yeah, people love to fight. And he has debates on this on his show. People that like, like to debate on, like, what the truth is about the pyramids or like these ancient bases and stuff that they study. And he has like all those granite bases that he paid a lot of money for on the. On the black market or not the black market in the antiquities market. But like, one of the funny things about archaeology is it's not like a. It's not like a. A hard science. It's like a soft science.

[Danny Jones]

Right?

[Steve]

Because it's like all archaeology, it's. It's based on. It's based on stories and it relies on so much human storytelling to. To explain it. Right. It's not like, it's like a. It's kind of like psychology. It's a soft science. It's not like a strictly hard science that you can measure and weigh and test.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

And stuff like that. A lot of it depends on like previous narratives and like subject to interpretation. All subject to, to interpretation. And that's why, you know, I mean people fight about regular hard science as well. But that's why there's such like a crazy, crazy disparity in personalities and belief systems around archaeology. Because people can be corrupted by what they believe. Because like some of it'll tie like to their religion or to their culture or to whatever they learned in school or you know, there.

[Matt Cox]

Okay, so I did, I interviewed. Did you interview Elizabeth Carson?

[Steve]

Is that Billy Carson's wife?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

No.

[Matt Cox]

Ex wife?

[Steve]

No, I didn't.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Yeah. Bro. 234. You had her on thousand subscribe aiming views?

[Danny Jones]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Oh my God.

[Matt Cox]

Listen, you, she's.

[Steve]

You see what happened to Billy Carson with his, his debate with that West Huff guy?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, she, she, she can only. He's got her under a. Pretty good.

[Steve]

Really?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, she can't talk about.

[Steve]

He's an interesting guy.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. But she's actually kind of interesting too. So she just started a podcast also. She's trying to.

[Steve]

Well, I mean, yeah, he used to do these tours of the great pyramids in Egypt and he'd post on his Instagram, like he'd be walking behind his wife cl climbing up the pyramid and he'd like be filming her ass as she's climbing up, like trying to sell it. Like, very weird. But you know, he's, you know, he's one of those guys.

[Danny Jones]

He's.

[Steve]

Is there valuable information in what he's saying and is there some truth to what he's saying? Like. Yeah, of course there is. But like he's also monetizing it to death, you know, and he's also trying to sell tons of books and make tons of money. Does that mean he's completely a full like, full of like liar and doing this, this as like a trying to con people? I don't think so.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, you can, you can, you can do both.

[Steve]

You can do both.

[Matt Cox]

You know, you can do both.

[Steve]

As many people do and the people in the highest levels of society do.

[Matt Cox]

Well, she's interested. I mean she's, she's in like I. For her to have gotten those views on my, on my channel. Like230,000 for somebody who doesn't really.

[Steve]

What is her podcast about?

[Matt Cox]

She, she talks a. I don't know. It's. I. So it's, it's kind of of. It's not UFOs, it's more spirituality and, and. But it's, it's just, you know, it's kind of an offset, slightly different offset of people that have had religious experiences and, and, and some of them I'm sure are, are you know, alien related and stuff. But I don't think she's leaning into that too much. But I'm sure her podcast will do great. She's, she's a personality in and of her herself. She's very attractive, she's articulate. I'm sure if she sticks with it, she'll do very well. I'm actually going to do her show I think in like a week or so. I drive down there to do her show. It's in, is it Fort Lauderdale? I think she's in.

[Steve]

She still lives down there.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. But she talks about.

[Steve]

That's the thing about it's not just like archaeology too, but like all the religious stuff.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

Like it's all, that's all open to interpretation as well, you know, that's not, that's as much of a science like religion is the same thing as archaeology. Right? There's certain things you can figure out with archaeology like, like, like radiocarbon dating stuff to find out if there's any like biological elements of things and stones or like you could sort of like judge like if there's human remains or animal remains or like wood. You can carbon dates, you can figure out roughly how old structures were and like corroborate that with other archaeology or you know like agriculture and stuff like that and like shipwrecks and. But it's just like it's such a, we have such a, like a, a vague blurry picture of the past.

[Matt Cox]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for 15amonth is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 months or $180 for 12 month plan required. $15 per month equivalent to taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.

[Steve]

You know.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Steve]

And it's still like this telephone game. Same thing with religion and all religious like experts, people who go to school and dedicate their lives to studying rel religions. Most of them disagree on media stuff. Oh yeah, all of them pretty much disagree on, on, on, on lots of very big details.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, I was actually thinking small details, but probably big ones.

[Steve]

Like, like large and small. Like there's just. And. And then, you know, then they start to sell books, then they start to go on podcasts. And this is the thing that I was thinking about recently when I had. I had this guy on. I was like. I was thinking like, you know, the very nature of podcasts. For someone to want to go on a podcast, there has to be some sort of incentive, right? Like, why am I going to go travel and waste my time to go talk to you about what I do? Right. Well, some people are.

[Matt Cox]

Some people, it may just be ego or they want to tell their story because they've. They've come a long way and they feel like I should tell people my story to help someone. Sometimes it's. Maybe it's just to help people. Yeah, I'm not saying all.

[Steve]

A lot of times I'm sure it's to help people, but I think most

[Matt Cox]

of the time they're trying to monetize.

[Steve]

People are trying to, you know, get the word out about. About either the work that they're doing.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

Or maybe books they're selling or articles they publish, their website or whatever. There's a. There's a. There's a very mutual trade off with podcasting. Right. Like, I get to do an episode of my show and you get to promote what. Whatever. Whatever it is you're doing.

[Matt Cox]

Yes.

[Steve]

So, like people in universities and like academic scientific institutions that work for corporations that are sitting in labs all day, day or you know, studying things all day that aren't selling anything. They're just simply contracted scientists or researchers or something like that. They have zero incentive to ever go on a podcast. Right?

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

They get paid to do specific research, which is they don't own. They're usually getting this money from grants from universities and stuff like this, or getting grants from like, companies, pharmaceutical companies, any kind of. Of like, you know, all kind of all scientific research is funded by governments or. Or somebody for profit organizations.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

Or like the military and stuff like that.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Steve]

So, like, I was thinking about, like, you. You had this whole, like, they're almost like two separate universes. So you have like the scientists and the researchers and the people like this who are publicly speaking about it because they make money doing this research that they make public, so they are incentivized to go talk about it. Right?

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

So you have this sort of like public podcast, echo chamber of stuff. And then you have these other people that are sitting in labs that never go on microphones. So I'm like, how different, I wonder, is the world of the biologist who strictly talks about biology in the public and the biologist who strictly works In a lab 247 funded by, you know, biotech companies, the government, or pharmaceutical companies. Companies. And you could. You could.

[Matt Cox]

How do you get to those people?

[Steve]

You could go across.

[Matt Cox]

What's the incentive for them to come on the podcast?

[Steve]

Exactly. Most of them don't want to do it. So it's like, what secrets?

[Matt Cox]

What is more true?

[Steve]

Is it. Is, is. Is it. Is it any more true because they don't talk about it publicly? Right. Or is. Is what the people who only strictly monetize it? Is that. Does that mean it's less true because they're monetizing it? I don't think so. Know, but it's a. It's interesting. I've been thinking about that a lot lately, you know, because there's just like this constant war online between, like, follow the science. The, you know, it's, you know, trust the science. You know, we have to trust our health care. And, you know, the whole health care in the hospital system is like insanely corrupt.

[Matt Cox]

Listen, I. I've mentioned this a few times, you know. You know, Boziak went in the hospital, stayed in the hospital for three days in Thailand. He got some kind of fever down there that I guess Americans aren't. Are.

[Danny Jones]

Are.

[Matt Cox]

Aren't Dean.

[Steve]

Gay.

[Matt Cox]

I have no idea. I. I mean, actually, I. He sent it to me. You want me. I mean, I. I know exactly where it is.

[Steve]

Yeah. Figure out what it is.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, it's. So he. He went in. He went in the hospital for three days. He said they did all kinds of tests on him and everything. Hold on. Dingu.

[Steve]

Dingay. Dingay. Fever. Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. Okay. Ding. Okay, how are you saying it?

[Steve]

Ding. I think it's pronounced ding gay.

[Matt Cox]

Ding gay. Okay. It's D E, N, G, U E, whatever fever.

[Steve]

It's very common in South America.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. So he got that. He was in the hospital for three days, huge fever. Everything he said, I was all up. He said they.

[Steve]

Lots of people die from that.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. So what do you think? After three days, his, His. He walked out. He had to pay cash. Like, you know, I don't have health in Thailand. No, this was in Cambodia, but it's similar. Cambodia he's been in. He's gone to Thailand too, by the way. But. And I'll tell you, you what, what? But this is the one. This is Cambodia. He said. Listen, bro, he said, top notch care. He Said top notch. He said, I mean, people, they're in and out, they're testing you, they're taking blood, they're talking to you. They spend time, he said, just like, felt like I was in an American hospital.

[Steve]

Interesting.

[Matt Cox]

He said, maybe not as quite as nice, but yeah, he said three days. How much do you think I have? No, same medication, I guess.

[Steve]

U. S. How much money in u. S. Three days?

[Matt Cox]

$100, $165. Wow. Do you know that an M. What an MRI costs in the U.S. three grand? Yeah, I was gonna say about $2,200. If your insurance is paying for it, depending on the provider, you're paying cash, it's about 12 to 1400.

[Steve]

They make it less if it's cash. How crazy is that?

[Danny Jones]

That's.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, exactly what you pay out of pocket.

[Steve]

Even for like a normal doctor visit, they like have to cut it in half.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah. So now what do you think it is in Thailand?

[Steve]

That just tells you it's a fucking whole money laundering scheme.

[Matt Cox]

Listen, listen, but how much do you think NMRI is in Thailand?

[Steve]

150 bucks. 12 bucks.

[Danny Jones]

12.

[Matt Cox]

$12 for an MRI. Same results, same person. Like, how do you even pay this guy that. Just read the results. You got a whole printout. You got a whole thing.

[Danny Jones]

Bucks.

[Matt Cox]

Like you don't understand. These prescriptions that you're paying 400 for are like a dollar.

[Steve]

This, this whole country is fake.

[Matt Cox]

I don't like the term fake. I don't know what that means.

[Steve]

It's a banana republic.

[Matt Cox]

No, I, I think it's, it's insanity. Did you ever hear, you know, look, I, I agree that this, the health care system. Although, listen, the health care system is top notch if you can afford it and that.

[Steve]

But the chance, if you can afford to go to Canada or Turkey or come Cambodia.

[Matt Cox]

No, if you the connect, I wouldn't go in the Canadians. You'll just die. Like, they're just, they're like, oh, we got free health care, but you're on hold for nine months or two years.

[Steve]

And they have assisted suicide now. Oh, you've seen that.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, but that happens right away. Sister suicide. You can get it done in a couple weeks if you, if you need a CAT scan, 18 months, right? If I need a CAT scan, I'll have one in a week. I mean, they'll literally like, every time I go to the doctor here, I'm signed in within a few days, I go in, I see them. I got my prescription that day. But yeah, it's expensive. It is Expensive. I get it. It's, it's. Something needs to be done in comparison. Same thing with the prescriptions. Like, it's. Listen, I got a script right now that we're trying to get help with. The script, 900 bucks. No, no, wait. The doctor said it was 900 bucks. Just checked. She goes, it's actually, I think 12 or 1300. We're trying to get help because our, we won't. It won't. Our insurance won't cover it. So, so you can go. There's a program you can go to and they'll help you with the thing. But that's how, that's how much I'll bet you that same medication is $5 in South America.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Cox]

Or, or, or what kind of a

[Steve]

doctor do you go to? You just go to like a typical, like a typical clinic?

[Matt Cox]

No, I mean, we have a, we, we have insurance, but, you know, they don't cover. That's always bothering me.

[Steve]

I have insurance too, but I have a, I have a bunch of. A couple specialist doctors that I work with that are in. Work in different states that are like the top level of, like in their field.

[Danny Jones]

Right.

[Steve]

And I get blood work done every three months. Like very meticulous, detailed blood work done of everything happening in my body. And I've been doing that for years.

[Matt Cox]

Right.

[Steve]

And this guy, I said, this guy gets it all and he like, lays it all out, breaks it all down like an equation and figure out. Figures out exactly, like, where my diet could be improved, where my, like, supplement could be improved. Any kind of medications, like from cholesterol to hormone levels to every vitamin levels to everything.

[Matt Cox]

Ryan Root does that for me.

[Steve]

Yep.

[Matt Cox]

Matter of fact, it's so funny. I went to.

[Steve]

I, I pay cash for all this stuff. Like, every prescription is cash. I don't pay. I, I have, I have full health insurance, but I don't use it for anything.

[Matt Cox]

Well, it's not going to cover this. It probably wouldn't cover it anyway. They'll be like, oh, you don't need all that. For instance, my provider, my nose and my cheeks were getting red. I'm taking trt and, and so I'm like, I go to, I go to one of them and she says, oh, you have high. They test my blood, they go, you have really high hemo. Hemoglobin. Your body's producing too much hemoglobin.

[Steve]

Right.

[Matt Cox]

And so she sends me to the blood bank, the blood place.

[Steve]

Donate blood.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, I donate blood every month. I did this for about six months. Then we change insurance companies, and so we go to another. So they give us another one. So now I have a new doctor. I go in there.

[Steve]

So you were doing. You were doing the testosterone being monitored by Ryan Root, and this is your primary doctor was telling you this?

[Matt Cox]

Yes, she. But she knows that you were doing the testosterone. Testosterone. She knows that. She knows the amounts, everything.

[Steve]

And what was she saying about it? It was.

[Danny Jones]

She.

[Steve]

Was she.

[Matt Cox]

No, she wasn't saying anything.

[Steve]

She didn't care.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, she said, it's fine. So then I go to the new provider. I go in and I tell her, hey, by the way, she goes, what prescription do you have? We lay them all out. One of the prescriptions is every month. I go and I get this done. She said, okay. And she's like, why? And I explained to her why. And she goes, okay, that. She said, well, can you go. She said, I don't know about giving you that. She said, I don't know anything about trt. She said, can you go to. Can you go back to the provider, the testosterone provider, you know, Ryan Roots guy? Can you go to him and have him prescribe it? I said, sure, no problem. And I said, no problem. So I call Ryan, prescribe the blood domain, the blood bank thing, because I had actually a script from them.

[Steve]

Got it.

[Matt Cox]

And once you do that, like, you think, oh, just go in and donate. Once they get the prescription, they won't take it unless you have a prescription, you can't go back. So I probably could have changed the place I was going to, but anyway, anyway, so I go in and I call Ryan and say, hey, I need this. And he goes, why? And I explained to him why. He said, no, you don't want to do that. And I went, well, that's what they're saying. This is. As a doctor, that's what they're saying. He goes, yeah, Matt, here's what's happening. And he explains it. And I don't know what the hell.

[Steve]

He said, oh, yeah. He says, like he's a science whiz

[Matt Cox]

when it comes to.

[Danny Jones]

Right?

[Matt Cox]

So he explains the whole thing. And he goes, he said, you don't need. I said, so what? Do I need medication? He said, no, break up your t. Break up your t. Your testosterone shot. You're taking it once, once, take it twice a week. He said, within a couple of days, it's your. The. Within a week. He said, it will go away.

[Steve]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Cox]

Guess what? We're now giving me two shots a week. No, the redness. Within a week or so. After the second shot, we drop it in half. We cut it down. He said, if twice doesn't work, you might have to do it three times. I did it twice, but, boom, everything's fine. I stopped getting all the things that were associated with that. Stopped getting dizzy. Everything.

[Steve]

Dizzy?

[Matt Cox]

Yeah, because I was getting dizzy where I was standing up. Up. Or I would stand up and I get a little. I just feel a little woozy every

[Steve]

once in a while.

[Matt Cox]

And he was like, no, that'll go away. That's because you have too much. Blah, blah, blah. He explains the whole thing. Listen, one thing. These have these guys sucking blood out of me. I'm giving blood for six months.

[Danny Jones]

Crazy.

[Matt Cox]

I mean, he says, oh, no, no, no. Cut it in half. Do it. Do once on Monday and once on. On Thursday. You'll be fine.

[Steve]

Yeah, perfectly fine. Yeah.

[Matt Cox]

With a week after doing that, boom, it drops down. I'm fine. Been doing it ever since.

[Steve]

Have you messed around with any of the peptides that are coming out?

[Matt Cox]

No.

[Steve]

He was so many peptides. Well, you are far on. On GLP1. That's a peptide.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, well, he was trying to explain it to me and everything, but, you know, he talks so far over my head, bro. I'm just like, what? Stop. He's trying to tell me not that I shouldn't be drinking so much soda. And. And. And, you know, I want to hear that. I don't want to hear it. I love soda. I don't want to hear that. You lost me at no more soda.

[Steve]

It's terrible, man.

[Matt Cox]

I know. I feel bad. I gotta go.

[Steve]

Where?

[Matt Cox]

I have to. I have to meet comedian guy.

[Steve]

All right, let's wrap up it up. Yeah. Cool, man. Thanks for doing this.

[Matt Cox]

No problem. Is this on Patreon?

[Steve]

This is going up Monday. We're publishing this Monday.

[Matt Cox]

You can't put this on the regular channel.

[Steve]

This is hor. Horrible. You think it was horrible?

[Matt Cox]

I don't know.

[Steve]

I had fun.

[Matt Cox]

I don't know. I always think it's horrible. I mean, I'm not. I'm not interesting like your other guests.

[Steve]

Hell, you're super interesting, bro. What are you talking about? Don't talk about yourself like that.

[Matt Cox]

Your guy. Your guys want to hear about aliens and. And. And they want to hear about.

[Steve]

You're a breath of fresh air. You're a breath of fresh air. You're you. Matt Cox has to come in once every six months to cleanse the palate. You're the palate.

[Matt Cox]

I'm unsubscribing.

[Steve]

Matt, you are the palette cleanser. Okay, so, so now we can reset. We can go back into crazy world.

[Matt Cox]

Nice.

[Steve]

But thanks for doing this, bro. Tell everyone about your podcast, all that good stuff.

[Matt Cox]

Oh, yeah, everybody needs to subscribe to Matthew Cox.

[Steve]

Oh, you got more subscribers than me. Now you.

[Matt Cox]

No, tell him.

[Steve]

Don't tell him about his.

[Matt Cox]

No, I don't. But I'm close. I'm closing. I, I, I think I'm, I'm a year away because you're moving. But I feel like I'm gonna catch you. I know I'm gonna catch you. I actually said that a couple months ago. I said, listen, I, the day I catch Danny, I said, oh my God, I pray. But yeah, yeah. Matt Cox, inside True Crime and the Murder Men. We have the Murder Men.

[Steve]

Yep.

[Matt Cox]

And my, my niece, I mean my niece, my, my, my daughter in law. Hers is called Crime and Curls.

[Steve]

Crime? What, did she lift weights like curls?

[Matt Cox]

No, she has curly hair. It's actually not that curly. It's kind of wavy. Whatever. Crime and Curls. It's cute.

[Steve]

And we got to get Pete Rossini.

[Matt Cox]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Here to talk about his Manchurian candidates, the Unabomber and Luigi. That'd be fun.

[Matt Cox]

That would be fun.

[Steve]

We'll get you guys in here together.

[Matt Cox]

Maybe.

[Steve]

We'll see.

[Matt Cox]

Okay.

[Steve]

All right. Good night, everyone.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This episode sponsored by Mood. Okay, this is actually genius. Are you ever overwhelmed with choices at the dispensary? What if I told you that you could shop cannabis by the exact mood you want tonight? With Mood, you don't shop by strain names or confusion. You shop by how you want to feel. Want to relax after work, sleep better, feel more creative or be more social? Mood makes it simple. Pick the Feeling. And Mood recommends products to match. Mood has gummies, flour, pre rolls and edibles designed around your Mood. I tried Mood's sleepy gummies and within an hour I felt calm, settled and ready for bed. No dispensary run, no second guessing. Just a smooth, relaxing experience delivered to my door. It's federally legal, third party tested and backed by a 100 day satisfaction guarantee. Go to mood, mood.com. that's m o o d dot com. However you want to feel tonight. Mood helps you get there.