Dare to Lead with Brené Brown – Reflecting on the "Living Beyond Human Scale" Series

Host: Brené Brown with Barrett Guillen
Date: May 15, 2024

Episode Overview

In this reflective capstone to the eight-episode "Living Beyond Human Scale" podcast series, Brené Brown and her sister/COO Barrett Guillen look back on conversations sparked by Brené’s forthcoming book, Strong Ground. Together, they explore learnings and ongoing questions about thriving in a world of unprecedented social complexity and instability—addressing velocity of change, AI, social media, community, and our neurobiological limits. The episode revisits insights from a powerhouse lineup of guests (including Esther Perel, William Brady, S. Craig Watkins, Amy Webb, and Joy Buolamwini), with a focus on what it means to stay grounded and bold amidst unrelenting disruption.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Living Beyond Human Scale" Metaphor

[03:46]

• Brené’s Story: The “human scale” metaphor originated from a moment in a hair salon, likening life today to flying a jet instead of a two-seater Cessna—disembodying us and requiring forward-thinking just to survive.
  • Quote: “When you get the jet and you start flying the jet, you can’t feel anything. And it’s not built to human scale ... As a pilot, you think you have control of the flight to the minute you’re dead. You just fly into the side of the mountain...” – Brené [06:25]
• Series Rationale: The analogy frames the series: “We’re disembodied. We’re not tethered in our bodies. We’re not grounded, and we’re being swept away by, you know, change.” – Brené [07:22]

2. Insights from Featured Guests

a. Esther Perel: Social Media and Connection

[07:56] – [09:53]

• Key Themes: Social media doesn’t equal real connection; attention as an undervalued form of love.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “I have a thousand friends, but no one to feed my cat.” – Brené, referencing the podcast [08:25]
  • “AI as artificial intimacy.” – Barrett quoting Esther [09:23]
  • “Attention is an undervalued form of love.” – Brené [09:33]

b. William Brady: The Perils of Moral Outrage Online

[09:58] – [16:07]

• Key Themes:
  • Research on how moral outrage is leveraged and distorted by social media platforms.
  • “Common enemy intimacy” – bonding over shared outrage, not real belonging.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “We become the monster we’re trying to kill.” – Brené, on self-righteousness and outrage [11:49]
  • “The more outraged you are... the more the algorithm puts it in front of everyone.” – Barrett [13:17]
  • “This is where commerce meets the exploitation of human people. Because they need us to stay on these platforms to service ads. And the second we forget that, we're just fucked.” – Brené [13:28]
  • On activism’s visibility: “If you’re going to evaluate my activism from what I do on social, you have no understanding of me at all.” – Brené [15:30]

c. S. Craig Watkins: AI, Justice, and Guardrails

[17:22] – [19:53]

• Key Themes:
  • Unchecked AI can scale injustice in vulnerable spaces; importance of values and inclusion in AI development.
  • The “alignment problem”: Are our systems built to align with democratic values? Currently: “No.” – Brené & Barrett
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “AI is just a machine that people put stuff inside of and we'll be scaling injustice.” – Brené [17:22]
  • “The first time I understood what the consequences are when tech moves faster than policy.” – Brené [19:05]
  • “You better have the ethicists, the people with lived experience, the liberal arts folks... the social workers, the humanists, they better be at the table too.” – Brené [19:25]

d. Valentino-DeVries & Keller: Young Influencers and Online Safety

[19:58] – [24:40]

• Key Themes:
  • Harrowing reporting on young girls as social media influencers managed by their parents and stalked by men.
  • Dual responsibility: parents’ choices, platforms’ lack of guardrails, and the visibility/invisibility of predatory behavior.
  • Honest reflections on judgment, personal boundaries, and tech’s addictive nature.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “It just materialized into this monster thing almost that they couldn’t shut down.” – Barrett [22:01]
  • “You know they can shut it down ... but are you listening right now and social media is hurting you, but you’re scrolling anyway?” – Brené [22:30]
  • “I’m a closet dictator... not one under 18 on social media, can’t even put kids’ pictures up. That’s it, we’re done.” – Brené [24:14]

e. Amy Webb: Future-Proofing and “Steering Into the Ice”

[24:40] – [29:46]

• Key Themes:
  • Amy's “steer into the ice” metaphor: rather than panic amid chaos, maintain composure and adapt.
  • We are all in “Generation Transition” as new tech cycles unfold (AI, wearables, biotech); embracing the uncomfortable unknown.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “We’re hitting some spinny, out-of-control ice stuff, and we’ve got to take a deep breath, maintain some composure, and steer into it a little bit.” – Brené [25:45]
  • “What an exciting time it is to enter the workforce.” – Barrett [29:56]

f. Lisa Gavelber: AI for Good

[30:12] – [33:02]

• Key Themes:
  • Practical examples of AI helping teachers (custom lesson plans, accessibility); addressing the digital divide.
  • Human-in-the-loop systems; keeping tech augmentative, not replacing human wisdom.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “Libraries are where people go for high speed Internet when they don't have it at home. And so when you defund a library you can change the economic future of an entire family. So cut that shit out.” – Brené [31:53]
  • “Keep a human in the loop.” – Brené, summarizing a core principle [33:02]

g. Dr. Joy Buolamwini: Justice, AI Bias, and Unmasking Power

[34:55] – [36:55]

• Key Themes:
  • Joy’s work unmasking bias in AI facial recognition; “AI is regurgitating what it’s fed, not generating.”
  • Blending scientific and artistic approaches to fight injustice; importance of equity and consent.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “She really talks about equity and justice and consent... bringing poetry and coding into a justice lens. Amazing.” – Brené [36:29]
  • “Her study on gender shades... I was in awe of her approach... and a little mortified we weren’t doing better.” – Barrett [36:29]

3. Reflections on Parenting, Connection, and Social Media

[37:09] – [40:48]

• Parenting Teens: Both offer honest accounts of parental controls, contracts, and the struggle to balance safety with belonging as their daughters/niblings navigate social media.
  • “I think we’ve also had to have conversations about people only sharing the best of them on social media and to watch out that not everybody has the best of every day.” – Barrett [39:06]
• Mental Health & Social Comparison: The “expert overload” on social causes overwhelm and doubt, especially amid family crises.
  • “The more I understand, the less I know for sure.” – Brené [40:48]

4. How the Series Landed: Skills for the Future

[41:38] – [42:10]

• Emerging Necessities: It’s “not about coding” but will instead require “neuroplasticity, really being in our bodies to understand how much our nervous system can take and not take, and how to regulate emotion.” – Brené [42:10]

Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “We’re on the ground, and the whole room’s spinning up and down, and we’re trying to get on our hands and knees and climb up, and then all this shit’s coming at us at the same time... People are not okay.” – Brené [02:59]
• “Attention is an undervalued form of love.” – Brené [09:33]
• “Counterfeit connection around moral outrage is so powerful.” – Brené [12:37]
• “If you forget that we're just here to service ads—once you forget that, we're just fucked.” – Brené [13:28]
• “AI is just what we make it. We're gonna screw it up or we’re gonna make it great.” – Barrett [18:46]
• “You better have the ethicists, the people with lived experience, the liberal arts folks... at the table too.” – Brené [19:25]
• “When you defund a library you can change the economic future of an entire family. So cut that shit out.” – Brené [31:53]
• “She really talks about equity and justice and consent. … bringing poetry and coding into a justice lens. Amazing.” – Brené [36:29]
• “The more I understand, the less I know for sure.” – Brené [40:48]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:08] – Setting the table: Why “Living Beyond Human Scale”
• [03:46] – The human scale airplane metaphor
• [07:56] – Esther Perel conversation: AI, social media, attention as love
• [09:58] – William Brady: Outrage, belonging, algorithmic exploitation
• [17:22] – S. Craig Watkins: AI in justice/prisons, policy lag
• [19:58] – Valentino-DeVries & Keller: Child influencers, online predators
• [24:40] – Amy Webb: Steering into the ice, technology supercycle
• [30:12] – Lisa Gavelber: AI for good, digital divide, libraries
• [33:25] – Dr. Joy Buolamwini: Bias in AI, gender shades, justice
• [37:09] – Parenting, social media, kids and teens
• [41:38] – Looking ahead: the real skills for future leadership

Tone and Style

True to Brené’s style, the episode is candid, warm, and peppered with humor, vulnerability, and the occasional f-bomb. Both hosts oscillate between optimism for the possibilities and honest concern for the costs, with an emphasis on community, accountability, and relational trust as critical assets for navigating the future.

Closing Thought

Brené sums up the series’ North Star: “It’s not about coding skills ... but it is about probably some neuroplasticity and really being in our bodies to understand how much our nervous system can take and not take, and how to regulate emotion.” [42:10]

To access detailed show notes, resources, or episode links, visit brenebrown.com and find this episode page under Dare to Lead.