Podcast Summary: Dare to Lead with Brené Brown

Episode: Lisa Gevelber on Technology and AI for Good

Date: May 1, 2024
Host: Brené Brown
Guest: Lisa Gevelber (Founder & Lead, Grow with Google)

Overview

This episode explores the intersection of technology, artificial intelligence (AI), and social good, with a focus on closing the digital divide and creating pathways to economic opportunity. Brené Brown interviews Lisa Gevelber, the founder of Grow with Google, about practical ways AI can empower individuals, especially those without traditional educational backgrounds. The conversation is honest, optimistic, and grounded in real examples, ranging from how AI helps teachers and learners to the transformative power of flexible, tech-driven skill certifications.

Main Themes & Key Discussion Points

1. Personal Histories and Leadership Journeys (04:27 – 09:26)

• Lisa’s Background: Grew up in Michigan, valued education, worked through college (University of Michigan). Moved to California in the late '90s for opportunities and to "build things."
• Leadership Lessons:
  • Decades of experience but still constantly learning.
  • A strong “steep learning curve” has defined her tenure at Google.
  • The importance of humility in leadership:
    • “I don’t think it’s possible to nail it all the time.” (B, 09:43)
    • Leadership is an ongoing, never-finished journey.

2. The Digital Divide: Definitions, Challenges, and Successes (11:02 – 15:02)

• Defining the Divide:
  • Not everyone has equal access to technology or the means to use it effectively.
  • Libraries play a crucial role as community tech hubs (13:21):
    • "My favorite thing would be to go to these classes and watch people experience having an email identity for the first time." (B, 13:23)
• The ‘Email Identity’ Construct:
  • Email is now a core societal identifier; lack of one = exclusion from many basic services (14:27).

3. AI as an Equalizer: Hopes and Concerns (15:02 – 20:50)

• Lisa’s Optimism & Pragmatism:
  • Believes AI can level the playing field, but it requires intentional inclusion.
  • Natural language interfaces reduce barriers:
    • Coding knowledge may be less necessary in the future due to conversational AI (15:25).
• Impacts on Workforce:
  • AI assists less experienced workers, helping them perform at the level of experts.
  • Uptick in job satisfaction and advancement.
• Caution and Literacy:
  • Need to demystify AI and educate users on potential biases, misinformation, and the necessity of a ‘human in the loop’ for fact-checking (19:26).
  • Example: Using Gemini (Google’s AI) to request sources (19:43).

4. Practical Initiatives: Google’s AI Essentials and GenAI for Educators (18:36 – 26:40)

• Accessible Training:
  • Google’s AI Essentials—a free, basic course to build AI familiarity.
  • Generative AI for Educators—a two-hour training for teachers to leverage AI for custom lesson plans, translation, summarization, and more (24:52).
    • “Let’s teach science using sports analogies. Let’s customize for different reading levels… Now they can instantly … customize their lesson plans.” (B, 25:16)

5. Rethinking Educational Pathways: Google Career Certificates (29:05 – 33:43)

• Addressing Degree Barriers:
  • Only a third of Americans complete a four-year degree, but most good jobs require one.
  • Google Career Certificates offer skill-based, career-relevant training regardless of prior education (29:37).
  • Over 600,000 graduates, available online and on-demand so working adults can participate.
  • Collaborations across employers, high schools, community colleges, and university systems (e.g., Texas, Pennsylvania).
• Impact:
  • Real job placement results.
  • “It really changes a family’s trajectory.” (A, 35:12)

6. Technology for Inclusion, Empathy, and Systemic Change (37:29 – 41:37)

• Unexpected Applications:
  • A neurodivergent learner asks AI: “Will this email make someone mad? Can you help me reword it?”
    • “It helps us be our best selves if used in the right way.” (B, 38:48)
• Critical Thinking & Bias Checking:
  • Brené uses AI for thematic analysis but always double-checks for bias—illustrating the importance of keeping a (paranoid) “human in the loop.”
  • AI as a tool to check emotional tone or provide practice for interviews, conversations, etc.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Leadership:
  • “I think great leaders are students of the game... You never arrive.” (A, 09:26)
• On Digital Inclusion:
  • “Email identity… I didn’t ever thought about it, but you can’t get anywhere without one.” (A, 14:27)
• On AI’s Accessibility:
  • “Generative AI works in natural language… Maybe that’s not even true in the future, we won’t necessarily have to know how to code.” (B, 15:57)
• On AI for Teachers:
  • “You can upload your lesson plan and ask the tool… to customize this lesson plan for three different reading levels… to teach using sports analogies.” (B, 24:53)
• On Systemic Change:
  • “Having a college degree is life changing. It just shouldn’t be the only way you can change your life.” (B, 29:37)
• On Empowerment:
  • “Since doing this program, for the first time in my life, I’m so confident that I can cover my bills that I put them on autopay now.” (B, 35:31)

Highlighted Segments & Timestamps

• Lisa’s Background & Path to Google – 04:27–06:09
• Defining and Tackling the Digital Divide – 11:02–15:02
• AI as an Equalizer & Human in the Loop – 15:02–20:50
• AI for Good – Education & Healthcare – 24:52–26:40
• Google Career Certificates & Outcomes – 29:05–33:43
• Examples of Technology for Inclusion – 37:29–41:37

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, warm, and full of hope—tempered by pragmatism and a drive for systemic change. Both Brené and Lisa marry personal storytelling with actionable insights, never shying away from real challenges but always returning to optimism and practical solutions.

Rapid Fire (41:45–46:39): Fun & Human Moments

• Vulnerability is: “Being real.” (B, 41:46)
• Leadership advice: “Always hire people better than yourself.” (B, 42:17)
• Leadership lesson: Patience (B, 42:46)
• Favorite binge show: Ted Lasso (B, 42:59)
• Best concert: Bruce Springsteen & the E Street Band (B, 43:54)
• Favorite meal: Burger and fries (B, 45:22)
• Book on nightstand: Katharine Graham’s memoir (B, 45:41)
• Joyful ordinary moment: Hugging her kids (B, 46:31)
• Gratitude: Having family close by (B, 46:39)

Conclusion

The episode showcases how technology—and especially AI—can be steered toward greater social good, economic opportunity, and inclusion if demystified and approached thoughtfully. Lisa’s work at Grow with Google provides templates for practical, scalable impact—while Brené grounds the discussion in real-life anxieties, optimism, and the messiness of leadership. The message: technology is a tool, and with courage, literacy, and intention, it can change lives.

Links to resources, including free AI education for teachers and Google Career Certificates, are available on brenebrown.com.

For anyone who hasn’t listened: This episode offers stories, research, and tangible takeaways that make a case for hope—grounded in both data and lived experience—about how technology can truly serve the many, not just the few.