Virginia Campbell & The Sauchie Poltergeist

Summary

Dark Histories: Virginia Campbell & The Sauchie Poltergeist
Season 6, Episode 20 | Released December 5, 2022

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Introduction

In Season 6, Episode 20 of Dark Histories, host Ben Cutmore delves into the mysterious and unsettling case of Virginia Campbell and the Sauchie Poltergeist. This episode explores one of Scotland's most enigmatic poltergeist occurrences, examining firsthand accounts, investigative efforts, and the lingering questions that still surround the haunting.

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Background

The story begins in November 1960, when 11-year-old Virginia Campbell and her family relocate from rural Ireland to the small Scottish town of Sauchie. They move into a semi-detached house on Park Crescent, sharing it with Virginia's older brother Thomas, his wife Isabella, and their two children, Derek and Margaret. The transition is challenging for Virginia, who grapples with adapting to a new environment, a new school, and limited time with her mother, who commutes to a nearby village for work.

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The Onset of Haunting

Shortly after moving into their new home, Virginia and her niece Margaret begin experiencing strange noises—knocking and scratching coming from the walls of their shared bedroom. Their brother Thomas and sister-in-law Isabella notice objects moving on their own throughout the house, though they keep these incidents hidden from the children.

On November 22, 1960 ([00:15:00]), the disturbances escalate when the family hears persistent thumping sounds. Thomas investigates the girls' room but finds no visible cause, leading to months of sleep deprivation and mental strain for the family. The children's beds reportedly lift and move, and personal items are thrown violently around the rooms. A pervasive sulphurous odor fills the house, adding to the family's distress.

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Investigations and Witness Accounts

George Owen, a contemporary investigator, visits the Campbell home after hearing reports of the disturbances. During his visit, he witnesses unexplained scratching noises behind the children’s bed and unable to locate any physical source. Owen notes, “The noise was made by some demon or spirit” ([00:09:06]), firmly believing in the objective reality of the poltergeist phenomena despite skepticism from others.

Reverend Lund, the local vicar, and Dr. William Logan, along with his practice partner, conduct their own investigations. They observe phenomena such as a large linen chest moving on its own and the bed covers forming unnatural shapes. During a BBC documentary on poltergeist cases, Dr. Logan describes a particularly disturbing incident:

"[00:19:55] One of the noises was a very characteristic sawing sound. The other noise that was most commonly present was a knocking tapping noise similar to this."

The disturbances also extend beyond the home. Virginia experiences episodes at school, where her desk lid slams open and closed despite her efforts to keep it shut. Her teacher, Ms. Margaret Stewart, recounts a terrifying moment when Virginia’s desk levitates and flowers shoot across the table, forcing her to send Virginia home for a few days.

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Theories and Conclusions

Throughout the winter of 1960 and early 1961, the Campbell family documents increasingly surreal and violent occurrences. While some contemporaries suggested that the poltergeist activity could be attributed to witches—a notion that tragically led to the wrongful execution of several individuals in earlier Scottish witch trials—most modern interpretations lean towards psychological explanations.

Dr. Alan Robert George Owen, a prominent figure in psychical research, conducted extensive interviews and documented the disturbances. He concluded:

"[00:33:50] It was a force, admittedly unknown to orthodox science, proceeding from Virginia herself."

Owen posited that the phenomena were manifestations of suppressed emotions stemming from Virginia’s traumatic relocation, suggesting that an unknown energy or force field, potentially emanating from Virginia, was responsible for the poltergeist activity.

Conversely, some investigators argue that Virginia's emotional turmoil and the significant life changes she endured were the root causes of the disturbances. Dr. Logan and his wife maintained that Virginia exhibited no prior medical or psychological issues and that her actions were genuine responses to fear rather than conscious attempts to deceive.

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Aftermath and Legacy

By April 1961, the intense period of hauntings subsided, with the final documented disturbance being a simple knock on the cupboard door. The Campbell family subsequently moved away from Sauchie, seeking to return to a semblance of normalcy. Decades later, Virginia Campbell leads a quiet life in a Midlands town, largely free from the shadows of her past experiences. When reached for comment, she stated:

"[00:43:02] It never really worried me, but for the sake of others, I hope it never returns."

Malcolm Robinson, a modern paranormal investigator, revisits the case and concludes it was the spirit of a deceased individual haunting Virginia. However, Owen’s research remains influential, emphasizing unexplained forces rather than traditional ghostly entities.

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Critical Perspectives

In a later discussion, Ben Cutmore critiques Malcolm Robinson’s book on the case, highlighting its disorganized structure and apparent bias towards a paranormal explanation. Cutmore notes that, unlike many poltergeist cases where perpetrators might be identified as children seeking attention, the Sauchie case lacks any admission of deceit from the involved parties. This unanimous consistency among witnesses, who were respected members of the community including priests and doctors, adds a layer of complexity and credibility to the haunting reports.

Cutmore reflects:

"[00:48:30] It doesn't answer the fact that all of those people stood by their story for decades and didn't change it."

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Conclusion

The episode of Dark Histories featuring Virginia Campbell and the Sauchie Poltergeist presents a compelling narrative that intertwines supernatural phenomena with psychological distress. While some dismiss the events as manifestations of a traumatized young girl’s emotions, others maintain that an unexplained force was at play. The enduring mystery of the Sauchie poltergeist continues to intrigue and challenge both believers and skeptics, reaffirming the enigmatic nature of poltergeist phenomena.

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For more detailed analysis and additional insights, listeners are encouraged to tune into the full episode of Dark Histories.

Transcript

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[Ben]

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[Narrator]

Recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply.

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[Narrator]

Terms [e-mail] terms despite the number of.

[Ben]

Documented cases, the poltergeist has consistently been one of the most difficult forms of paranormal phenomena to define, with very little consensus over what they are actually supposed to be.

[Narrator]

Spirits, invisible, unknown energy, or childish hoaxes all form the basis of the most.

[Ben]

Common theories that have been presented in England. The Enfield case is without doubt the most famous poltergeist case and has over the decades had all three theories put forward by those that investigated. The small London house hundreds of miles north and over the Scottish border in a tiny village named Socky is another case that has proven just as difficult to define despite the contemporary investigator George Owen concluding in my opinion, the Socky case must be regarded as as establishing beyond all reasonable doubt the objective reality of some poltergeist phenomena. This is dark histories where the facts are worse than fiction. Hello and welcome to season six episode 20. I'm Ben, as always, and this is the final episode of season six, final episode of the year. So as usual, with every year, I'll be taking.

[Narrator]

I say taking December off, but that's not really the case. But I won't be releasing episodes or normal episodes in December. Although, however, there is quite a bit lined up.

[Ben]

Anyway, there's a live stream planned for the Patreon members. It's like an end of season livestream and I've obviously got the Christmas campfire.

[Narrator]

Episode lined up, but I just won't be releasing regular episodes. It just gives me some time off once a year to sort of assess the podcast, change some things that need changing. I mean, you know, not there really is everything that needs changing, but just basically get things in order, do a.

[Ben]

Little bit of housekeeping and plan for the year ahead, really.

[Narrator]

So, yeah, that will be that.

[Ben]

So this will be the last episode.

[Narrator]

Of this season for the live stream.

[Ben]

As I mentioned, if you're a Patreon.

[Narrator]

Member, head over there.

[Ben]

All the details will be on Patreon.

[Narrator]

It'd be great to see you and otherwise I should just give one last.

[Ben]

Call out if you've got any submissions.

[Narrator]

For the Christmas campfire, which, I mean, this year we've got a really significant.

[Ben]

Amount, which is brilliant.

[Narrator]

But if. But just to give you a quick heads up, if you haven't got it in yet and you're planning. Yeah, get it in as soon as you can, really, because I'm gonna have to start sort of actually working on those a little bit earlier this year, because I could say that there's a.

[Ben]

Lot of stories to go. We've got a lot of stories been sent in, so.

[Narrator]

Which is just brilliant. But otherwise, yes, I'll stop waffling now and let's crack on with the final episode.

[Ben]

Virginia Campbell and the Socky Poltergeist. Of all the paranormal phenomena up there with the most troublesome, the most violent, the most mysterious, and some might say.

[Narrator]

The most difficult to investigate is the phenomena of poltergeists.

[Ben]

Pernicious spirits that cause havoc. Banging, knocking and tossing objects around whilst biting, pinching and levitating their tormented subjects via an invisible force. Both directly and indirectly, violent poltergeists have the ability to stir a particular kind of fear and dread, with the grinding, increasingly dangerous harassment of their victims first becoming a recognized theme in folklore during the late 17th century. Tales of poltergeists have been studied for years, but with few conclusions universally accepted. In the early 1660s, a landowner from Tidworth in Wiltshire, England, named John Monpesson found himself written into history when his own experience of a poltergeist haunting was documented by Joseph Glanville, the natural philosopher, clergyman and author, whose writings on spirits and witches clashed so severely with his thoughts on skepticism and rationalism underpinning his.

[Narrator]

Belief in the supernatural.

[Ben]

Monpasson's story was featured in Glanville's Seduceumus Triumphatus, a book primarily on witchcraft that was published posthumously in 1681 and would go a long way to influence Cotton Mather and his philosophies that would spawn the silent witch trials 10 years later. John Monpasson was a wealthy landowner who worked essentially as a magistrate in North Tedworth, on the Wiltshire, Hampshire border in the south of England. Sometime in the spring of 1662, he crossed paths with a man named William Drury, a vagrant who, for some unknown reason, thought a drum solo was the best way to busk, despite this being centuries before the invention of jazz, making an ungodly racket on a floor tom that he wore slung across his left shoulder, he worked round the town, banging away, much to everyone's great despair. Unfortunately for Drury, Montpassant was, like most of the town, not much of a fan, and when he confronted the percussive beggar, he was relieved to discover that he was in possession of a forged permit from a neighbouring village's constable. Monpasson had the drummer arrested and, mercifully his drum confiscated. Despite Drury being freed before ever making it to trial, his drum was not returned and was instead forwarded on to Monpasson's house by the bailiff.

[Narrator]

It turned out to be an unwelcome.

[Ben]

Gift, not least because he hated the drum in the first place, but because its appearance signalled the beginning of several months of torment from an unseen visitor. Bangs and knocks hammered on the doors at night, whilst a drumming thud paced up and down on the ceiling, and scratching sounds in the walls drew in around the room that the drum was stored in, whilst the banging sounds focused on the child's bedroom. Terrified, Maupasson chased the sounds around the.

[Narrator]

Halls with his pistol in hand, but.

[Ben]

He never caught sight of a potential culprit, leading into months of sleep deprivation, mental torment for Mompesson, and lifelong trauma for his children, whose beds lifted and jumped from the floor, the covers torn off and cast aside, and their possessions tossed carelessly through the air. Panting sounds whispered into the ears of all the visitors and residents, and a sulphurous stench emanated from the carpets throughout the house, ensuring that there were far fewer of the former than in the days before the drum had arrived. Priests came to the house to pray, however, it seemed to have little positive effect, often driving the sounds away from the children's rooms temporarily, until once the prayers had ended and the sounds would return with renewed aggression and vigour. Glanville visited the property himself after several months of disturbances had allowed for the rumours to spread across the country. Keen to see the truth of them, he visited Montpenson and witnessed a considerable amount of phenomena. In one evening I heard a strange scratching as I went up the stairs and when we came into the room I perceived it was just behind the bolster of the children's bed and seemed to be against the tick. It was as loud a scratching as one with long nails could make upon a bolster. There were two little modest girls in the bed, between 7 and 11 years old. As I guessed, I saw their hands out over the clothes and they could not contribute to the noise that was behind their heads. I searched under and behind the bed, turned up the clothes to the bed cords, grasped the bolster, sounded the wall behind, and made all the search that possibly I could to find if there was any trick, contrivance or common cause of it. The like did my friend, but we could discover nothing, so that I was then verily persuaded, and am so still, that the noise was made by some demon or spirit. The story of the demon drummer stands.

[Narrator]

Out not only because it was one.

[Ben]

Of the earliest examples of a poltergeist haunting, but also because it involved Mompesson's children, a common trait of poltergeist hauntings that has always seemed to cause great difficulty for serious investigations. In the case of the demon drummer of Tedworth, Granville was convinced. But that was not the case for all witnesses, several of whom thought it was just a case of children playing tricks, a theme that would remain common to the genre that did not always have such innocuous outcomes. At the end of the 17th century, one of Scotland's most famous witch hunts took place in Renfrewshire as a consequence of what many have described as possible poltergeist phenomena. When 11 year old Christian Shaw, the daughter of a local Scottish estate owner, came down with a strange illness In August of 1696, Shaw had fits, vomited small piles of hay, barley, straw bones, chicken feathers and rags, and fell into trance like states where she would hold conversations with an invisible entity.

[Narrator]

In the case of Shaw, however, the.

[Ben]

Culprit was decided to be witches and the young girl eventually named 35 members of the small local community, seven of which would end up condemned to death. And whilst one committed suicide in prison.

[Narrator]

To avoid his fate.

[Ben]

The other six were hanged before being burned at the stake. Centuries later and poltergeist stories still continue, though thankfully the world has moved on from burning witches. Undoubtedly, one of the most famous modern.

[Narrator]

Cases of poltergeist activity took place in.

[Ben]

Enfield during the twilight years of the 1970s. Eighteen years before Enfield, however, was another case in Scotland, 50 miles northeast of the site of the Renfrewshire witch burning that nowadays gets far less attention, generating national press stories at the time and gathering the interest of the local clergy. The case of the saucy poltergeist is, despite being less well known, no less sensational and every bit as intriguing. With a population of around 6,000, the central Scottish town of Sochi in the.

[Narrator]

Historical county of Clackmananshire is a small.

[Ben]

Leafy town lying around 35 miles from both Edinburgh in the east and Glasgow in the west. In centuries past, the county's economy largely revolved around the local mining and colliery industries as well as its weaving mills which did a global trade, allowing the area to thrive despite its position as the smallest county in Scotland in the 20th century. Sauchi grew into the village settlement it is today, thanks to the miners who made the town their home, extending the housing in the southern part of the old town. In November of 1960, 11 year old Virginia Campbell moved into a two storey, relatively newly built, semi detached house on Park Crescent in the centre of Socky, along with her mother Annie. The pair were relocating from Ireland where they had lived on a small farm in County Donegal where Virginia's father James had remained behind along with the family dog Toby, in order to oversee the sale of the property. Virginia and Annie were not entirely alone however, and the move wasn't entirely random as the house in Park Crescent was the home of Virginia's older brother Thomas, a coal miner 19 years her senior, who had moved to Scotland in the years prior and set up a family with his wife Isabella and their two children, 6 year old Derek and 9 year old Margaret. It was quite the stark contrast for Virginia, who went from living as the youngest by some margin of nine children and growing up more or less as an only child to living in a small house, sharing a room and a double bed with their younger niece.

[Narrator]

Fortunately for the whole family's living conditions.

[Ben]

But less so for Virginia, her mother took a job at the school boarding house five miles out of town in the nearby village of Dollar that provided accommodation shortly after their arrival. The position freed up some room in the cramped house, but it further alienated Virginia, who was already dealing with adjusting to a new town, a new home and a new school, and now had to adjust to only seeing her mother on the weekends. Nevertheless, Virginia did manage to settle down.

[Narrator]

Relatively quickly, and though she came across.

[Ben]

As shy and withdrawn to her new teacher, she was also described as a friendly, pleasant girl of average ability that did appear to make some friends in her class. It was none of these difficult social.

[Narrator]

Issues that related to a big upheaval.

[Ben]

That were really bugging Virginia, however, since very soon after she had moved into Park Crescent, her and her niece Margaret had been hearing a strange knocking and scratching noise coming from the walls of their room at night. Thomas and Isabella had both noticed a few strange things around the house too. Though they'd chosen to keep it from the children, both of them had witnessed ornaments moving position on the mantelpiece as well as doors throughout the house, opening and closing seemingly of their own volition. It was on the 22nd of November of 1960 that it all became a bit too much for the young girls who ran downstairs with Virginia, finally alerting her brother to the disconcerting noises that had been growing stronger over the previous few days. She described the sound that night as if a ball were bouncing under the bed and had followed them down the stairs. Thomas first instinct was to tell the girls to go back to bed and try getting back to sleep. In order to help them go a little more quietly, he went upstairs with them and tucked them in before saying goodnight and shutting the bedroom door behind him as he left to go back downstairs. Just as the door clicked shut, however.

[Narrator]

He was stopped in his tracks by.

[Ben]

A thumping sound coming from the girl's room. Thinking it was still the girls playing up, he swung open the door quickly and jerked his head into the room, hoping to catch them in the act. But instead of seeing the girls playing around, he saw their faces, eyes wide open, tucked into bed just as he had left them, beginning to sense a.

[Narrator]

Little of the fear that the girls.

[Ben]

Were obviously expressing now and also hoping to settle them down. Thomas let both of the girls sleep.

[Narrator]

In a different room for the night.

[Ben]

And gradually the house returned to its.

[Narrator]

Peaceful late night state.

[Ben]

The following day, feeling tired from the late night, Virginia stayed home from school. The day seemed to pass with a sense of some quiet, which everyone was thankful for. However, small occurrences of phenomena happened throughout the day, becoming bolder as the day grew longer, all of which were documented and kept in a diary. A piece of chocolate jumps off the sideboard. Also a pencil, a Brillo pad came out of the kitchen into the living room. The light went on twice. Virginia was using the cleaner. It went off and the rubber flew off the handle. There was a knocking under the table. Virginia gave three knocks. Then there were three knocks back. By evening the strange bouncing knockings were back and this time they seemed to be getting more audacious as the sun set and darkness fell across the valley, bringing with it a bitter cold clear night sky. Virginia was sitting in an armchair when the sideboard next to her slid out from the wall five inches into the room and then shunted itself back into place, all seemingly without anyone touching it. Alarmed by this, the whole family stared wide eyed at the piece of furniture just as the knocking sounds began again, sounding out all across the house. It was enough for Thomas to make a decision and by midnight he'd taken it upon himself to call in Reverend Lund, the local vicar and clergyman of the Church of Scotland. If Lund was sceptical of anything that Thomas had explained to him over the phone, it didn't last long after his arrival as he was greeted immediately as he entered the house by loud knockings in the walls. As he approached the girl's bedroom, where.

[Narrator]

He was being directed to by a.

[Ben]

Pale looking Thomas, along with a next door neighbour, Reverend Lund looks over the bedroom scene and took in the banging sounds for a few moments before asking the girls, who were both lying in the bed under the covers, to move into the center of the mattress and away from the headboard, which due to.

[Narrator]

Its proximity to the wall, was his.

[Ben]

Best guess as to what had been making the sound. No change was made, however, and the loud bangs continued unabated.

[Narrator]

He placed his hand on the headboard.

[Ben]

Himself and he felt what he would later describe as a vibrating sensation coursing through the wooden frame. Just as he was pondering this peculiar feeling, a loud grinding noise came from the bottom of the bed and a large wooden linen chest that looked like it had weighed about 50 pounds lurched forwards out into the room, just as the cyborg had done downstairs earlier that evening. As it stood with all eyes upon it, it rocked gently back and forth, threatening to tip over, and then lifted several inches up into the air, its fragile balance wavering before it came to a quiet standstill back on solid grounds. A few seconds later, everyone in the room stood speechless, their eyes darting from the now quiet chest to one another, silently confirming what they had all just seen. At the same time, the knocking sounds re established their relentless metronomic thumping echoing off the walls of the stunned household. After an uneasy night's sleep, Thursday morning eventually rolled round the Late night once more keeping the girls from school. No sooner had they woken, however, was.

[Narrator]

It assured that they were not going.

[Ben]

To be in for any easier of a day before the sun had reached the horizon. That evening, things in the house were far from normal as a vase shifted in its place on the living room mantelpiece. Thomas had already seen an apple toss.

[Narrator]

Itself out of the fruit bowl in.

[Ben]

The kitchen and a sewing machine in the corner of the dining room had started. Started by itself, clunked around for a.

[Narrator]

Few cycles and then closed back down.

[Ben]

Coming to an uneasy rest to some relief for the whole family. Reverend Lund returned that evening with a pair of local doctors named William Nisbett and his practice partner, and the Campbell family doctor William Logan, who had agreed to pay a visit to the house at the request of the vicar. All three men had their attention turned once again to their linen chest when they were standing in the girl's bedroom as it opened and slammed shut its lid several times, the loud snapping of the wood echoing off the walls. The girls brought the room's eyes back to the bed when they started screaming and the bed covers began to move in what was described as a rippling or puckering movement.

[Narrator]

And the pillow rotated beneath Virginia before.

[Ben]

Coming to a rest with a heavy depression in the middle, taking on what appeared to be the shape of someone's head, as if someone unseen were resting upon it. Throughout it, all the same loud noises bounced off the walls of the room, later described by Dr. William Logan in.

[Narrator]

A BBC documentary on Poltergeist cases, along.

[Ben]

With a playback of a recording made that night by the doctors.

[Dr. Logan]

One of the noises was a very characteristic sawing sound. The other noise that was most commonly present was a knocking tapping noise similar to this. After a short while, we decided to go home, thinking that perhaps Virginia would settle down and go to sleep once we had left. Just as we were going out the door, a very unusual thing happened. Seemed unusual at the time time, and that was the noises appeared to take on the knockings, appeared to take on a character in that they became extremely hurried and agitated, as if something was trying to get us to stay in the room or attract attention to the child in the bed. The noises became, as I said, agitated. Something like this. Here is a tape recording made by Dr. Logan.

[Ben]

The next day saw Virginia and Margaret return to school. And whilst events at Park Crescent seemed to quiet down during her absence, Virginia's classmates were less fortunate. While she sang class during a silent reading lesson, anxiously holding onto the lid of her desk, Virginia's grip slipped, allowing it to slam open and shut several times. When the teacher, Ms. Margaret Stewart, asked.

[Narrator]

Her to stop slamming the lid, the.

[Ben]

Scared young girl could only reply that it was not of her doing, which naturally had a fairly adverse effect on the rest of the children who watched on with palpable anxiety. Things came to a head when the girl sitting in front of Virginia leapt from her seat, almost stumbling over as she reeled backwards from Virginia's desk, which she said had floated several inches up.

[Narrator]

Into the air before crashing back to.

[Ben]

The floor behind her. Thankfully, it was Friday and the whole class, including the teacher who had tried to keep the children calm and focused on their lessons, left at the end of the day happy that they did not have to return anytime soon. The events of the day were described during a phone call with Ms. Stewart decades after the event, to author and paranormal investigator Malcolm Robinson. The class was quiet and all of the children had their heads bent down over their jotters, busily writing away. In 1960, we still had the old desks that had a lid top. Anyway, I looked over at Virginia and noticed that she was sitting with both hands pressed firmly down on top of her desk lid. I rose from my chair and walked over to her. I was then surprised to see the desk lid rise and fall, with Virginia trying her best to keep it shut with her hands. At this point, a child in front of Virginia rose to take her jotter.

[Narrator]

Over to my desk. No sooner had she left her seat.

[Ben]

Than her desk rose a few inches off the floor on its four legs. I then explained to the class that I would be back in a few minutes, and during this time I went to see the school headmaster, a Mr. Peter Hill. I told him that there was something funny going on in my classroom, and I explained to him what I had just seen. Mr. Hill said that he had heard talk of strange things going on in the Campbell household. He then asked to see Virginia and asked me to explain to her classmates that Virginia would be going home for a few days because she was feeling unwell. I was also to say that there might be talk from others of ghosts centred around her, but they were not to believe this. They were just rumours. This is what he more or less told me to say. That night, Virginia's mother returned to Park Crescent to stay with her daughter for the weekend. As had become the normal family routine, the house was cramped due to the goings on, and along with the reverend, both Dr. Logan and Nesbitt, as well as Dr. Logan's wife, Sheila Logan, herself also a doctor, also visited the house in hopes of gaining some further understanding.

[Narrator]

Of what was going on with Virginia.

[Ben]

Despite the large audience, the doctors were only able to record the knocking sounds once more in what appeared to be a somewhat quiet night. Compared to the events of the rest of the week, though, a disturbing development seemed to involve more physical phenomena, and both Virginia and Margaret seemed to have marks on their bodies as if they had been punched, though obviously they acted clueless as to what had caused them. Incoming transmission.

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[Ben]

The next day was largely a continuation of the relative peace and quiet of the night before. And though the bed covers were seen to ripple once more and the knocking sounds continued long into the night, all.

[Narrator]

Of this was becoming second nature. And much to everyone's relief, little more.

[Ben]

Happened to cause any fresh concern. The same could not be said the following evening, however, and on Sunday night, Virginia became quite hysterical after falling into some kind of trance like state that had seen her rolling on the bed, babbling nonsense and barking like a dog. Alarming as the behaviour had seemed to everyone, it was only more so considering how out of character it had been.

[Narrator]

To them, given that Virginia had always.

[Ben]

Seemed a quiet and shy girl who had kept a cap on any extreme emotions, even throughout all of the strange phenomena that they had all experienced around her. The trance state was not only showing behavioural symptoms either. While she was in full flow, one of the doctors present managed to take her pulse and reported that it was slow and steady, as if Virginia were relaxed and in a resting state. Virginia's pulse was taken several times throughout the doctor's visits and on every occasion it never once appeared elevated or excited.

[Narrator]

The next day, on Monday, 28 November.

[Ben]

The sun rose upon a straight week of strange happenings around Virginia and everyone was getting pretty used to the idea that things were not likely to resolve anytime soon. This was drilled home in her class back at school when the teacher's large, solid wooden desk lifted off the ground as she was speaking to Virginia, who.

[Narrator]

Could do nothing but apologise and promise that she wasn't doing it.

[Ben]

This had come after a busy morning where several items had pinged around the classroom, including a blackboard pointer that had.

[Narrator]

Fallen off the desk by its own.

[Ben]

Volition, and when the teacher had gone.

[Narrator]

To pick it up, she had felt.

[Ben]

It vibrate between her fingers. It had all gotten very difficult for the teacher who had been forced to dash from the classroom to call for help to get her class calmed down.

[Narrator]

From the teacher next door.

[Ben]

Events of that day were recalled later by Ms. Stewart. The most unnerving thing that I experienced in the classroom was when on one occasion I was sitting behind my large oak table.

[Narrator]

Virginia was standing at the other side.

[Ben]

Of the table with her hands clasped firmly behind her back. Suddenly a large blackboard pointer cane, which.

[Narrator]

Was lying flat on my table, started to vibrate. At first it vibrated slowly and then it increased.

[Ben]

As the seconds wore on.

[Narrator]

I sat transfixed, looking at this. Then the table, which was quite heavy.

[Ben]

Started to rise up slowly into the air and it also vibrated. I put my hands on the table and tried to push it back down.

[Narrator]

But with no success. I was quite horrified.

[Ben]

But it did not stop there. The table continued to vibrate as it hovered a few inches off the floor. Then the table rotated through 90 degrees.

[Narrator]

So that where I had moments before sat behind the long edge of the table, the table had rotated so that.

[Ben]

Its narrow edge was now directly in.

[Narrator]

Front of my stomach. I looked up at Virginia and saw.

[Ben]

That she was quite distressed, and I remember her saying, please, Miss, I'm not doing that. Honest I'm not. I calmed her down and just then a bowl of flower bulbs shot straight across the table.

[Narrator]

That evening the Campbells decided to send.

[Ben]

Virginia away to their aunts in dollar for a few days, hoping that the break might give her some time to rest and relax, aware that the rumours.

[Narrator]

That had been circulating the house may have been having an adverse effect on the young girl.

[Ben]

But it seemed the phenomena only followed her along, and she returned several days later, looking none better for it.

[Narrator]

Upon her return on the following Thursday.

[Ben]

Dr. Nisbett and Logan visited the house around 11pm along with several members of the local clergy, including Rev. Lund and Rev. Ewan MacDonald, who carried out what they called a divine intercession service. And whilst no one was keen to call it an exorcism, it seems like something of a similar service was carried out by Virginia's bedside as the members of the church prayed aloud for 15 minutes straight whilst violent bangs continued around them. With everything that had been happening around Virginia, especially at school, it did not take long for the press to grab hold of the story. And following a story in the local paper that had been written with something of a sensationalist bent, including the headline Ghost, Poltergeist or what? The story was quickly snatched up by.

[Narrator]

The local press, who were quick to.

[Ben]

Hop aboard, the excitement causing a ruckus at the socky primary school gates as journalists clamoured to speak to anyone attached to the haunted schoolgirl. Shortly after the initial press reports which.

[Narrator]

Had detailed Virginia's full name and address.

[Ben]

The local papers quickly began playing the story down, printing the story of the intercession service carried out by the four clergymen and suggesting that ever since events around Virginia had returned perfectly to normal, one sub headline even ran with the line Child had nothing to do with the poltergeist.

[Narrator]

In actuality, the stories were not altogether.

[Ben]

True and were very probably only printed in efforts to quash the ridiculous crowds that were constantly surrounding Virginia's home on Park Crescent and clambering over anyone and Everyone who was simply trying to attend to school as normal. The situation had clearly escalated beyond the local boundaries, and reports that a photographer working for an unnamed newspaper had snuck.

[Narrator]

Into the Campbell house by telling Thomas and Isabella that that he was a.

[Ben]

Member of the council was spreading an unsavoury atmosphere around the story, quite in opposition to what the papers were reporting concerning the return to normality.

[Narrator]

However, Park Crescent instead became the subject.

[Ben]

Of close scrutiny of a slightly more experienced kind. Dr. Alan Robert George Owen was born in 1919 in the Southwest city of Bristol. After studying mathematics and physics at Cambridge University, he continued as a research fellow at Trinity College. Whilst there he joined and eventually became the chair for the Cambridge Society for Psychical Research after he had discovered an.

[Narrator]

Interest in the topic following a working.

[Ben]

Relationship with the English philosopher Charlie Dunbar Broad, whose own philosophical interests had led him to research into the fields of.

[Narrator]

Telekinesis, telepathy, psychic ability and the existence.

[Ben]

Of spirits and ghosts. Throughout the late 1950s and early 1960s, Owen studied hauntings across the country, investigating hundreds of cases, compiling those he considered legitimate for a research paper on poltergeists. As was common for psychical researchers of the period, Owens sought to move the concept of the poltergeist away from traditional views that it was somehow demonic in.

[Narrator]

Origin, and instead was attempting to place.

[Ben]

It within the realms of scientific study, creating quantifiable data that dealt in unseen forces and hidden abilities of the human mind. In early December of 1960, Owen, like many others across the UK, was made aware of the case of Virginia Campbell.

[Narrator]

Via the newspapers, and when he read.

[Ben]

The story, his ears pricked. He contacted the Campbells immediately and made plans to visit Park Crescent and meet Virginia for himself. Over the following six weeks, Owen documented the disturbances that had been surrounding the Park Crescent home and interviewed six of the eyewitnesses, including Virginia, Thomas and Isabella.

[Narrator]

He later included the case in his published work, Can We Explain the poltergeist?

[Ben]

Along with 35 other cases he believes show signs of showing genuine unexplained phenomena, differentiating them from the hundreds of cases that he had discarded due to evidence that they were hoaxes, either in full or in part. Though Owen never managed to witness any of the reported phenomena firsthand during any.

[Narrator]

Of his visits to the house, he.

[Ben]

Concluded that I do not think that it was a demon or a goblin or yet a disembodied spirit.

[Narrator]

I think it was a force.

[Ben]

A force admittedly unknown to orthodox science, but yet a force proceeding in some way from Virginia herself. Throughout the winter of 1960 and the early months of 1961, the diary that was being kept of the disturbances around Virginia continued to file strange happenings in the house, many of which were getting fairly surreal. At one point the girls bed covers seemed to change colour from green to red and footsteps started being heard on a regular basis, pacing up and down the hall outside the bedroom. The physical symptoms continued to worsen too, and Virginia and Margaret both complained of having their arms and legs covered in red pinch marks. Many years later, one of Margaret's friends, Alison Ramage, told Malcolm Roberson during his research into the case of a story that happened while she was visiting the Campbell home for dinner that winter. The table would be set and when we sat down the knife and fork next to Virginia would move as if eating, out of the glass, as if drinking. Virginia and her family mostly ignored all these things. Yes, she did try very hard to ignore all of the happenings. However, the more she did that, the.

[Narrator]

More the podcast would throw things all.

[Ben]

Over the place, including in the school. From what I remember, she was just an ordinary, very popular, nice girl and had no family problems. Clearly, things were not as quiet in Park Crescent as the local papers had wanted people to believe.

[Narrator]

As the winter began to thaw and the days grew longer, however, the things.

[Ben]

Did appear to slow down until finally, on Sunday 23rd April 1961, the final entry into the diary and the final word on the case gave a single line with no explanation. There was a knocking on the cupboard door. The somewhat abrupt end to the Sochi.

[Narrator]

Poltergeist case in the public eye led.

[Ben]

To a quick withdrawal into obscurity for the Campbell family, which most would probably argue was for the best. Just what actually went on around Virginia in that winter. Though as far as Owen was concerned, the case was of legitimate interest and every eyewitness seemed to feel very strongly that everything that was happening had had no easy explanation. As for Virginia, her character was always spoken of in the highest regards. And Logan, the family doctor, confirmed that she had never had any previous medical history that might have lent itself to the events and and suggested that any hysteria that she had displayed at the time was purely a natural consequence of the fear that she was feeling from the phenomena that was carrying on around her. When Owen met her during his investigation, he described her as being mature for her age, placid and obedient and in splendid mental health. When broaching the subject of a hoax, he was even more direct with his conclusions, saying to the press five years.

[Narrator]

After the fact that it is just.

[Ben]

Possible to suppose one could be the victim of illusion or hallucination. However, it is beyond all possibility that everyone could be deceived over a long period. And everyone did seem keen to ensure that little of the blame would fall onto Virginia and adamant that everything that they had experienced throughout the events was very far from her usual character. One of the most published contemporary theories was that the emotional distress of moving to a new country was a dramatically shuffled family life and separation from her dog Toby was enough to traumatise any child and that Virginia's outbursts were a natural outcome of such an upheaval. How much of the outbursts were conscious actions by Virginia is another question altogether. Almost no eyewitnesses blamed Virginia, nor accused her of trying to hoax or play tricks on any of the adults involved. Dr. Logan said on multiple occasions that he was always very careful to make.

[Narrator]

Sure that Virginia could not possibly have.

[Ben]

Been causing the disturbances. I was sure that there was nothing in the room and I made sure as far as possible that the child was quite immobile and that she had no part to play in the knocking. In fact, I am quite convinced on that particular point that the amount of noise that would have had to have been produced by the child by quite a great deal, I would say, of physical activity. And she was completely immobile. Like most, he blamed the shift in lifestyle for Virginia for causing the problems.

[Narrator]

My feelings on the matter are that.

[Ben]

These events have nothing to do with ghosts or spirits. I believe that the shift in environment from a rural farming community life in Ireland, leaving behind our friends and such and coming over to Scotland was in a sense a bit of a trauma and that somehow this suppressed emotion was externalised to objects and items close to Virginia. Despite not actually witnessing any phenomena for himself and Owen remained quite convinced of the paranormal angle of the case.

[Narrator]

In his later published book covering poltergeists, he said of the case that it.

[Ben]

Establishes beyond all reasonable doubt the objective reality of some poltergeist phenomena. His summary of what he believed a poltergeist actually was, however, was much more in line with the later years of the parapsychologists who believed the disturbances were the result of some unknown energy rather than any spirit, ghost or demon. There is no evidence indicating the separate existence of the poltergeist as a discarnate entity. The phenomena are consistent with production by forces emanating from the child or less resident in space and triggered off by some influence emanating from her. Regarding the supply of energy required for the manifestations, it is clear that this is within the physiological capacity of a healthy girl of 11, however, it is quite conceivable that she provided no appreciable amount of energy. This may have come from the potential.

[Narrator]

Energy of some unknown force field in.

[Ben]

The space around her. Virginia's contribution may, mechanically speaking, have been to trigger off the operation of this force field. At certain points it seems evident that the physical phenomena observed by the key witnesses are incompatible with trickery by Virginia or by other children or adults. He later confirms his theory in the BBC documentary when he said, I do not think that this was a demon or a goblin or a disembodied spirit.

[Narrator]

I think it was a force, a.

[Ben]

Force admittedly unknown to orthodox science, but yet a force proceeding in some way from Virginia herself. Dr. Nisbett seemed to believe something similar, forming a conclusion very close to the others. I observed actually only on one occasion, but that's indisputable, the lid of the linen basket rising up and then slamming shut. Before this happened, I myself having been warned that such a thing might occur, had seen to it that the linen basket was well away from any contact, either with any person or with any surrounding object. And standing in the clear open floor to see this force was something which no one could dispute and which has to be accepted. I had always been brought up as a child to believe that in the world around about us there was a spiritual force as well as a material force. Whether one wants to use the word spiritual force or simply force is not, to my mind, terribly important. Our evidence was clearly that there was some force of which we were unaware or incognizant, at least existing in and about the room because of the effect of that force which we could hear and see. Whilst Nisbet's conclusion was slightly more accepting of spiritual ideas, not everyone has lent so much into the parapsychic narrative as most of the other witnesses. In modern days, the case has often been framed as a more traditional poltergeist.

[Narrator]

Haunting, including by the author and investigator.

[Ben]

Malcolm Robinson, who firmly concludes it to have been the spirit of the deceased back to haunt Virginia.

[Narrator]

Then, of course, on the complete other.

[Ben]

End of the spectrum, there is the conclusion that one can easily reach that everything was simply the attention seeking outbursts of a frightened young girl struggling to get to grips with a living environment that was rapidly changing, potentially unpleasant and.

[Narrator]

Entirely out of her control.

[Ben]

It seems the easiest conclusion to reach, but in doing so, one has to discard the testimonies of every last eyewitness from the scene. One thing is for certain, and that is that Virginia clearly wants nothing more to do with the story and has moved on. Many years ago, several investigators have made attempts to discover the whereabouts of Virginia.

[Narrator]

Now in order to speak to her.

[Ben]

About her experiences in Park Crescent, and all have failed. It seems fair to suggest that from right back In December of 1960, the narrative that all was quiet in the house was fed to the press in order to calm down the disruption both in Virginia's life and at the school gates. And that same angle has allowed Virginia.

[Narrator]

To quietly slip back into a normal life.

[Ben]

What is known is that shortly after the events, the Campbell family moved away from Socchy.

[Narrator]

But where to is anyone's guess.

[Ben]

The Sunday Mirror ran a serialized report on the case four years later in 1965, and the final report included an up to date photo of Virginia along with the story that she was living somewhere in the Midlands. There were some vague reports that for a while the poltergeist activity followed the Campbells even after their move from Sauchi, but nothing has ever been confirmed. Perhaps the nicest way of concluding the whole affair was exactly as the Mirror chased to do in highlighting her return to mundane normalcy. Today, aged 15 and untroubled by the whole affair, she lives with her parents in a small Midlands town. She works in a factory. She has a boyfriend, goes dancing and is keen on the Kinks and the poltergeist. It never really worried me, says Virginia, but for the sake of others, I hope it never returns. So that was Virginia and the case of the Saki poltergeist.

[Narrator]

And we'll talk a little bit about.

[Ben]

That after these short advert breaks.

[Narrator]

Welcome back. So, yes, a poltergeist case and a.

[Ben]

Slightly more modern case than what I normally deal with. So I kind of have made it.

[Narrator]

A sort of deal with myself that I wouldn't really do stuff that sort.

[Ben]

Of later than World War II.

[Narrator]

That was kind of my cutoff point. But I don't know, I just, I saw this case and I thought coming.

[Ben]

Up to Christmas, nice ghost story.

[Narrator]

And it sort of had a bit to it that I just didn't, I just liked. So I thought I'd do it anyway, so I'd sort of break, break the.

[Ben]

Mold and do, do one that was, say it was 1960, so it was.

[Narrator]

Hardly modern, but it's more modern than I, than I'm used to. But anyway, there's quite a bit to talk about here, so. So firstly, the case is for the most part written up in a book.

[Ben]

By a guy called Malcolm Robinson.

[Narrator]

The book is pretty awful actually. And it's less like a sort of real book and more of a kind of half finished book plan and it's quite jumbled and it has, it's quite.

[Ben]

Difficult to follow along.

[Narrator]

It's quite, it's a really messy book basically. But to say that Malcolm Robinson has clearly done quite a bit of work trying to dig into things and he has some really great transcripts of interviews of some of the people that were involved at the time. But what I'll say about it is.

[Ben]

Unfortunately.

[Narrator]

He clearly has an agenda.

[Ben]

He says he doesn't. You know, he says that he's an.

[Narrator]

Investigator and he goes into this with.

[Ben]

An open mind and all the rest.

[Narrator]

Of it, but it's just not true.

[Ben]

Because I mean he, he freely admits then he like contradicts himself by admitting.

[Narrator]

That, you know, he, he thinks that it's a ghost and, and he, he had like a, a.

[Ben]

He mentions a time where he was.

[Narrator]

Talking on Facebook with some people who live in Saki and one of them.

[Ben]

Said that it was nonsense or whatever. And he replied, well, unfortunately it's not nonsense because it's all real and all this.

[Narrator]

And it's like, well, clearly you're going into this, you know, you, but you.

[Ben]

Believe it's true and you're seeking answers.

[Narrator]

That fit with your bias, which is, you know, obviously a problem with the, with the book. But it's, you know, it's still a, it's still an interesting book if you can sort of get over those facts. You know, it's got quite some really good, like I say, really good transcripts of interviews. But anyway, sort of like that's just a, you know, it's not a book review club. But just to let you know, like, because obviously I put the book in the, in one of my sources. So just let you know if you.

[Ben]

Were sort of planning on buying or whatever. Just a bit of a heads up.

[Narrator]

That that's, that's what you're going to be getting into. But anyway, the actual case, I thought it was interesting.

[Ben]

There was one thing in it that.

[Narrator]

Really gets me with this case and it, and it I think draws, is important. You know, it draws more attention to this case than the most poltergeist cases and that's that not a single person.

[Ben]

Believe this to be a hoax. Right.

[Narrator]

So, so when you look at poles.

[Ben]

Cases, especially ones with children or when.

[Narrator]

You look at the ones with children like Enfield and things like that, for me the, my natural sort of conclusion going in is look for the easiest answer Right. And then draw your conclusion on that.

[Ben]

And then go from there.

[Narrator]

Right. And so the easy conclusion is almost.

[Ben]

Always where the children were sort of.

[Narrator]

Hoaxing, you know, that the children were playing up and playing tricks. And then you.

[Ben]

That's.

[Narrator]

That's kind of like your. Your kind of initial sort of starting point almost, because that's the.

[Ben]

The most obvious conclusion at every time.

[Narrator]

You know, you can't really start thinking about anything else until you've ruled out that.

[Ben]

Right.

[Narrator]

And of course, in most of these.

[Ben]

Cases, you can't really rule them out.

[Narrator]

Completely because you're not there. You don't have any solid evidence, but you can get an idea of the.

[Ben]

Feeling about the place. So when you look at the Enfield.

[Narrator]

Case, I think one of the biggest.

[Ben]

Things that lets it down for me.

[Narrator]

Is that people freely admitted that the children were sort of playing tricks, and.

[Ben]

They got caught playing tricks several times.

[Narrator]

And the paranormal investigators at the time sort of used that almost. They've tried to flip that and use.

[Ben]

That as a way that strengthens the.

[Narrator]

Case by saying, hey, look, we're admitting.

[Ben]

That the kids played a trick, say.

[Narrator]

10% of the time, but they didn't play tricks 90% of the time. But unfortunately for anyone that's really looking.

[Ben]

At that, the damage has already been done.

[Narrator]

Right. We know that the kids have played a trick 10% of the time. So as much as he's trying to use that as a way to strengthen the case, it can't.

[Ben]

It's undermined already.

[Narrator]

Like the fact that the kids are playing tricks has already undermined the entire case.

[Ben]

Right.

[Narrator]

And that makes it very difficult to sort of come back from, for anyone looking at the case, you know, now, and I think with this one, what is interesting is that no one admits to the kids ever creating any hoaxes. And although that's, like I say, my initial reaction is, well, the kids were obviously playing up, and I'll come a.

[Ben]

Bit more onto Virginia in a minute.

[Narrator]

But the one that I think really got me was the Nisbet, Dr. Nisbet, who was adamant that, you know, the.

[Ben]

Chest slammed open and shut by itself in the middle of the room with no one around it.

[Narrator]

And he was quite confident that that was the case.

[Ben]

That sort of gets me on this one.

[Narrator]

Like, I say that not a single.

[Ben]

Person said, oh, you know, well, maybe.

[Narrator]

It was the kids playing up. And whatever else gets me with this one is it didn't really get the fuss that a lot of cases do.

[Ben]

So, like, literally no one on this.

[Narrator]

Has anyone anything to gain at all whatsoever. Nothing, absolutely zero to gain from saying that this was ghosts or apologies or whatever. And, and that's quite interesting. You know, obviously you have to be wary where the, the big sort of fallacy that most people fall over with this case is they, they're kind of whole call to authority, right? And that's that, you know, everyone involved with teachers and headmasters and, you know, doctors and priests and, and, and you know, there wasn't, there weren't any like.

[Ben]

Just regular general public.

[Narrator]

They were all sort of members of.

[Ben]

Authority, so therefore we should believe them. Right?

[Narrator]

But no, that's not the case and.

[Ben]

That'S not what I'm saying here. I don't think we should believe him.

[Narrator]

Just because they were, you know, doctors and priests. You know, they can lie just as much as anyone else. But where I, I do sort of question it and, and start to think, well, you know, perhaps they are telling the truth is that's just the fact that all of them stuck to their story 100% over all this time.

[Ben]

They stuck to their story and they.

[Narrator]

Haven'T wavered from it. And that I find interesting doesn't necessarily make me sort of like, say, okay, it was definitely a poltergeist then, you know, like, I'm not. That's.

[Ben]

I don't think it's enough.

[Narrator]

But it's a very interesting aspect of this case for me. Just one that sort of like plays on my mind. I think probably they're all on the.

[Ben]

Right lines when they were saying that.

[Narrator]

You know, obviously the big upheaval for Virginia has caused this, whatever was happening. And I think that's probably it. Right. What I do wonder is that I don't know why, but, but clearly it all got out of hand, right?

[Ben]

You know, they sent her away for.

[Narrator]

A few days to kind of get her out of the limelight and probably sort of help her. You know, they're probably quite concerned for, you know, her well being at that point if, if they, if, you know, crowds were gathering and there were janine journalists all over the place. Apparently there was a story of a.

[Ben]

Journalist like, snuck into the house. And I sort of mentioned it in.

[Narrator]

The story, but a journalist snuck into the house pretending to be a member.

[Ben]

Of the council, like doing an inspection, and then took like photos secretly of the family.

[Narrator]

And you like, you know, you think like, yeah, this was not good for the child and that's probably why they sent her away, right? And I think probably it was all just getting like, very out of hand. And I think that's why suddenly the papers began running these stories that were like, hey, look, calm down, this is all getting a bit, you know, basically.

[Ben]

They, they almost said as much, you.

[Narrator]

Know, like, this is all getting like, completely out of proportion, like there's nothing wrong with the girl, the poltergeist is gone, blah, blah, blah. So clearly, I think whatever happened, the story never meant to go quite like this. I think the initial report from the local press is probably to blame by saying, you know, poltergeist ghost or what, as the headline.

[Ben]

That.

[Narrator]

That's probably what sort of blew it up. But, you know, there are. There are several aspects of this that, you know, they sort of gnaw away at you and, you know, they're. They don't. They're not easily explained, and they are quite interesting. The easiest answer to come to is that Virginia was, you know, not taking the move well, not taking. Being, you know, being cast into a new town.

[Ben]

A new school, her mom.

[Narrator]

Not being around her dog, not being around her dad, still being over in Ireland.

[Ben]

She just wasn't taking all that very well.

[Narrator]

And then it all sort of got blown out of proportion when that newspaper story got printed. And then the. The same newspapers sort of tried to sort of then calm it all off.

[Ben]

Because they sort of realized that they'd.

[Narrator]

Maybe misstepped a little bit.

[Ben]

That, to me, would be the.

[Narrator]

The sort of rational explanation for the whole story. Right, but that doesn't answer so much. You know, it doesn't answer the fact that all of those people, like I say, stood by their story for all decades and didn't change it.

[Ben]

And they all, all of them seem.

[Narrator]

To be quite sure on what they'd seen. And, and, and they weren't necessarily all sort of spiritual people.

[Ben]

Like that one guy sort of mentioned.

[Narrator]

That he grown up, you know, believing that such things could exist. And he was. I think that was Nisbet again, wasn't it?

[Ben]

But Dr. Logan and Dr. Logan's wife.

[Narrator]

They both went into it saying that they were. They were fully skeptical. Dr. Logan's wife, actually, in an interview, like, much later, she sort of said.

[Ben]

Straight up that she was completely skeptical.

[Narrator]

And was going into it more or less, you know, just a sort of out as a curiosity to see what her husband was, you know, what her.

[Ben]

Husband had been dealing with.

[Narrator]

And just to sort of, you know.

[Ben]

Obviously her husband was coming home and telling her about it. And so she was like, well, I'll go and check it out and see what it's about.

[Narrator]

So they were definitely, you know, not all Just sort of gullible and, and.

[Ben]

Wanting it to be a haunting or.

[Narrator]

Anything like that, to be that kind of skeptical and to say that, you know, that it was perhaps Virginia. I wonder if they just sort of.

[Ben]

Kept up this story of it being.

[Narrator]

A ghost as a way to sort of protect Virginia to stop people sort of saying, oh, well, she was just a bratty child or something.

[Ben]

But that seems a bit extreme.

[Narrator]

Do you know what I mean? It seems like a, like it doesn't.

[Ben]

Really matter if she was being a.

[Narrator]

Bit of a bratty child. Most people would probably understand, I think, you know, that, you know, in her situation, it is difficult.

[Ben]

Life, you know, life can be tough.

[Narrator]

And, and, you know, big moves like that are not always easy, you know, so it's, they didn't, maybe they didn't really have anything to protect her from.

[Ben]

So anyway, I'm sort of just rambling.

[Narrator]

I, I suppose, like, like almost every.

[Ben]

Case, I'm, I'm more or less on the fence.

[Narrator]

I, I, you know, I, I always want to see the, the easy answer. And the easy answer is, you know.

[Ben]

She was just playing up. Right. But that just doesn't explain what, you know, all of the eyewitness accounts.

[Narrator]

I suppose it's whether or not you believe those eyewitness accounts, isn't it? And that's what it comes down to. So, yeah, I mean, there's a story, there's a ghost story for Christmas for.

[Ben]

You anyway, so thank you for listening.

[Narrator]

For, you know, this episode and all the episodes of season six.

[Ben]

Thank you for being with me again for another year. I'm sure I'll give more thanks for.

[Narrator]

This season over the, you know, the coming episodes with the Christmas campfire. But yeah, just, just in case you don't listen to those, you know, thanks for listening. I'll be back in the early weeks of January with a new episode and.

[Ben]

A whole new season.

[Narrator]

So until then, I'll take some time.

[Ben]

Away from sort of writing and reading.

[Narrator]

And researching episodes and do a little.

[Ben]

Bit of housekeeping on the podcast.

[Narrator]

And then we'll be back fresh as.

[Ben]

A daisy for season seven next year.

[Narrator]

Which is very exciting. So, yeah, thanks for listening, as always, anyway. And if you'd like to contact me, you can do so contactarkhistories.com is the email. You can also contact me on Discord or via sort of messages on social media.

[Ben]

All the links for that is either.

[Narrator]

In the show notes or on the website, which is darkhistories.com and on that website, you'll also find links of all the ways that you can support the show, including Patreon, which would be helpful, obviously, but lots of other ways that you can help it. You know, not all financial. You know, just reviews and things like that are obviously great, but, you know.

[Ben]

Everyone always does great reviews for dark histories and stuff.

[Narrator]

I don't really need to ask because, you know, everyone always just does.

[Ben]

Does it anyway, which is brilliant.

[Narrator]

And it's, you know, I'm so thankful. So, yeah, thanks very much, as always. I'll leave it there because I feel like I'm rambling. So, yeah, thanks very much. Take care.

[Ben]

Sleep tight.