Jameela Jamil

Summary

David Tennant Does a Podcast With… - Episode: Jameela Jamil Release Date: March 4, 2025

In this engaging episode of "David Tennant Does a Podcast With…," host David Tennant sits down with the multifaceted Jameela Jamil to explore her journey through the entertainment industry, her activism, and personal growth. The conversation delves deep into Jameela's experiences, challenges, and the evolution of her public persona.

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Meeting and Early Impressions

The episode begins with a light-hearted exchange as David Tennant reconnects with Jameela Jamil. They reminisce about their first meeting in 2016 at the Soho House in Los Angeles, highlighting the serendipitous nature of their encounter. Jameela humorously recalls feeling like an "impulsive twat" during their initial interaction, setting a candid tone for the conversation.

Jameela Jamil [05:31]: "I could have. Maybe you did."

Transition from Television Presenter to Actress

Jameela shares her unconventional path from an English teacher determined to leave the television industry to becoming an actress in "The Good Place." She recounts her desperation for employment after touring with her musician boyfriend and surprisingly landing an acting role without prior experience.

Jameela Jamil [08:01]: "It's just my total calm and chill in that I didn't expect to get it. That massively helped me be funny and relaxed in the room."

David expresses admiration for Jameela's ability to secure roles effortlessly, noting her successful transition despite initial reluctance.

Imposter Syndrome and Success in Acting

The discussion moves to Jameela's ongoing battle with imposter syndrome. Despite her notable achievements, including appearances in Marvel projects and prestigious award ceremonies, she admits to feeling unworthy and constantly battling self-doubt.

Jameela Jamil [12:21]: "I have to remember that anytime anyone stops me, yeah, sure. But I go, I'm just a really great person."

David highlights the paradox of attaining success while grappling with internal insecurities, to which Jameela responds by emphasizing the importance of meaningful roles over mere validation.

Activism and Social Media Influence

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Jameela's activism, particularly her founding of the "I Weigh" movement. Originating from her frustration with societal focus on women's weight, the movement evolved into a broader mental health initiative aimed at fostering kindness and empathy.

Jameela Jamil [64:30]: "We have to reframe the way we value women. It just hit a note again with the public."

She discusses the impact of social media on her activism, acknowledging both its power and the challenges it brings, such as media misrepresentation and online abuse. Jameela candidly shares her strategies for maintaining mental resilience amidst internet hostility.

Jameela Jamil [44:42]: "Sometimes just the amount lies really get to me."

Mental Health Struggles and Recovery

Jameela opens up about her teenage struggles with anorexia, detailing the societal pressures and lack of support systems that exacerbated her condition. She connects her past experiences to her current advocacy work, aiming to create safer spaces for mental health discussions.

Jameela Jamil [56:43]: "It was so hypernormalized. Like, it was weird to enjoy a meal."

David reflects on the shared experiences of mental health challenges, fostering a sincere understanding between the hosts.

Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Jameela shares personal stories that illustrate her growth and changing perspectives. From her first kiss at 21 to navigating fame and public interactions, she provides a raw and honest look into her life beyond the public eye.

Jameela Jamil [60:08]: "I've only shagged five people ever. But I think considering I've only kissed six people, pretty good fucking odds again."

David contributes with his own humorous anecdotes, adding depth to their rapport and highlighting the universality of certain experiences.

Future Endeavors and "Move for Your Mind"

Concluding the episode, Jameela introduces her new initiative, "Move for Your Mind," a movement focused on promoting accessible and inclusive exercise as a means of improving mental health. She describes the success of her prior projects and her vision for creating supportive environments that break away from diet-centric culture.

Jameela Jamil [67:34]: "Move for your mind. We're putting on events. We've got one in London on the 18th and 19th of January and we'll be doing them all over the world."

David commends Jameela's commitment to fostering positive change, emphasizing the importance of creating safe spaces in today's fast-paced world.

Closing Thoughts

As the conversation winds down, Jameela reflects on her return to England after a decade in Los Angeles, expressing her love for her homeland and her desire to continue making impactful contributions through her activism and creative projects.

Jameela Jamil [74:42]: "I'm healing the world. I'm the godmother of the Internet. You know, I'm busy."

David applauds her efforts and dedication, underscoring the podcast's central theme of personal growth and societal contribution.

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Key Takeaways

• Non-linear Career Paths: Jameela Jamil's journey from English teacher to actress underscores the unpredictability of career trajectories in the entertainment industry.

• Imposter Syndrome: Achieving success does not immunize one against feelings of inadequacy, emphasizing the need for ongoing personal support and mental health care.

• Activism and Social Media: Leveraging online platforms for meaningful social change comes with both opportunities and challenges, including media misrepresentation and personal vitriol.

• Mental Health Advocacy: Personal struggles with mental health can fuel impactful advocacy work, driving initiatives that promote empathy, kindness, and accessible mental health resources.

• Creating Safe Spaces: Initiatives like "Move for Your Mind" highlight the importance of inclusivity and accessibility in promoting mental well-being through physical activity.

This episode offers listeners an intimate look into Jameela Jamil's life, her struggles, triumphs, and unwavering commitment to making the world a kinder, more understanding place. David Tennant's empathetic interviewing style brings out the depth of Jameela's experiences, making this a must-listen for fans and those interested in the intersection of entertainment and social activism.

Transcript

[David Tennant]

Hey, Georgia.

[Georgia Tennant]

Hi, David.

[David Tennant]

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[David Tennant]

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[Georgia Tennant]

Hello? Just so you know, this episode contains the C word. Personally, I'm trying to reclaim it, but if it's a problem for you, then you probably best switch off.

[Jameela Jamil]

Now.

[David Tennant]

I think you're this side.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. If you jump in that.

[David Tennant]

And this is water in a can because that. That's what happens now.

[Jameela Jamil]

Wanker. All right, let me make sure my phone's on silent. Yeah.

[David Tennant]

Have you had a busy morning?

[Jameela Jamil]

Me? Yeah. I'm producing my boyfriend's record at the moment, so. Well, that's posh with him. Obviously, I'm not the sole producer. I'm not Timberland.

[David Tennant]

God, I'm already intimidated by multiple skill sets. I have zero. Well, maybe one sometimes.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yes, yes. Known for not being talented.

[David Tennant]

Well, that is what I. You know, I certainly still feel very much like an imposter. But let's. It's not about me.

[Jameela Jamil]

We are. We're all a bunch of imposters. We're all completely over privileged quacks who have far more.

[David Tennant]

Oh, that's Just. Yes. David Tennant does a podcast with Jameela Jamil. You're so much more experienced at doing this than I am. I'm slightly intimidated.

[Jameela Jamil]

I've been doing this from the very, very beginning of my career.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

So I love it.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

And it's both strange and fun to be on the other side when I'm being interviewed.

[David Tennant]

Is that all right? Do you mind that?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. It's just a constant struggle to pull back the urge to take hold of the entire interview and now make it all about you.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Which. Do you have a preference?

[Jameela Jamil]

I prefer interviewing.

[David Tennant]

Do you?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yes. What about you?

[David Tennant]

Um, no, I think I prefer. Ooh, depends who's doing the interviewing, doesn't it? Right, so I'll ask you again at the end. Hope for the best. I want. Now, I think because of something you said outside, you're not going to know the answer to this question. Cause I was going to ask you, do you remember when we last met? And I don't think you do.

[Jameela Jamil]

I really don't. Because this is the problem with everyone is that, you know, I'm in this industry where there's this constant blur of who I know and love from the television and whether I've met them in real life. And my instinct with everyone is, I've met you, I know you, we hang out. You've breastfed me.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Oh, we've done that. Yeah. But I realize, you know, upon meeting lots of different people, like Olivia Colman or anyone else, that I'm overly familiar, and then with a few seconds, I realize, fuck, we've never actually met and I just know you from the telly. So you and I have been in DuckTales together.

[David Tennant]

Well, we have, yeah. But we don't get to meet when.

[Jameela Jamil]

We do that, unfortunately. No. But iconic, though.

[David Tennant]

Iconic. I was very chuffed.

[Jameela Jamil]

I signed on because you were on it.

[David Tennant]

I didn't even.

[Jameela Jamil]

I didn't even know what the script was or the role was. I just saw your name.

[David Tennant]

I didn't know much about DuckTales, but some of the other guys who play Huey, Dewey and Louie.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah.

[David Tennant]

Are of the age that it just hit with.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah.

[David Tennant]

I missed it completely. But they were very, very deep in on it.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Tennant]

It was a sort of. It was a religious experience for them being in that show.

[Jameela Jamil]

I mean, it still penetrated me, like, how massive that was.

[David Tennant]

Sure. Good. Well, I'm glad. Well, we have met before.

[Jameela Jamil]

Okay.

[David Tennant]

And I think it was 2016.

[Jameela Jamil]

Okay.

[David Tennant]

And it was in this.

[Jameela Jamil]

Was I cringe.

[David Tennant]

No, no, you Were utterly delightful.

[Jameela Jamil]

Okay.

[David Tennant]

But it was at a very specific moment in your life, which is why you had quite a lot going on. So you maybe do not remember specifics.

[Jameela Jamil]

Oh, I mean, I fully blacked out up until about two years ago.

[David Tennant]

Well, we were. And this will also define for the listeners what wankers we are. It was in the Soho House, Los Angeles.

[Jameela Jamil]

Oh, God, yes.

[David Tennant]

And now this is where I think I've slightly misremembered the details. Cause this seems implausible, but in my memory, you had literally just touched down in Los Angeles and come straight from the airport. Okay, it can't be that simple. You can't have touched down at LAX and gone straight to the Soho House, can you?

[Jameela Jamil]

I could have.

[David Tennant]

Could you? Maybe you did.

[Jameela Jamil]

Then who is who I am. I'm a real twat.

[David Tennant]

Well, I was there to receive you.

[Jameela Jamil]

But I lived right next door, so I probably dropped my bags in.

[David Tennant]

Maybe you had dropped your bags and came in. Yeah, I don't think we'd met before that and I don't think we've met since. No, but it was. You had literally just. Maybe not that day. But you were very fresh in town.

[Jameela Jamil]

Right.

[David Tennant]

Having just signed off on the chart show on Radio 1 and sort of set forth on a bit of an adventure.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yes.

[David Tennant]

I mean, quite a lot has happened since. A lot since that day in 2016. 2016, that would be. Right. Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

I left in 2015.

[David Tennant]

Maybe it was 2015.

[Jameela Jamil]

I left in 2015 and I just sort of didn't want to be on TV anymore ever again. Lol. And I wanted to be a writer and a dj. And so I just fucked off. And then my boyfriend and I got together and he was a touring musician, so I jumped on a tour bus with him for the majority of that year and we went around the world in out of la. And then I ran out of money and so I said, please, can I have a job? Any job. I will do anything. I only didn't do porn because I don't have any upper body strength, but I would have. And then you need a lot of.

[David Tennant]

Upper body strength for porn is that.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's also just like the strength of the thighs. I have no glutes. I'm Indian. Like, it's just like. We're just not like God skipped glutes, I think for Asians.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

So really? Yeah, Just all my strength is in my spirit, really, not my body. But so, yeah. So porn was not an option. So I.

[David Tennant]

In other ways it would have been. I mean, do you think you Could. Would you be able to perform that for a public audience?

[Jameela Jamil]

I have no idea. I was so desperate for money at that point. I had $17 left in my bank account. You know, I was real keen. But instead, I was handed a bunch of auditions. One of them was for a magic show in Vegas, taking over from Jonathan Ross, who no one knew, has been hosting this secret magic show for years. Yeah, it's called Fool Me with Penn and Teller. What years? This man has been sneaking off secretly to fucking Vegas and doing a huge magic show. Right? What? And so they were looking for a replacement, and I did the audition. And I also did the audition for the Good Place, which I didn't want to do because I'd never acted before, and just thought, you know, that would be.

[David Tennant]

That's very early, isn't it? That doesn't happen here. People don't go, well, you've done this. Do you want to be an actor now?

[Jameela Jamil]

No, it's the opposite here. It's like, stay in your lane. And the reason I left is partially because I wanted to be able to write, you know, And I knew that you can't write. You're a TV presenter, you're a radio presenter.

[David Tennant]

Imagine that you might write, like, on a show, like in a writer's room type thing.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I had my own show that I pitched, and I got signed to three Arts Agency based off of this script that I had been writing. And they were the ones who said, we want you to go to this audition for Mike Scher the Good Place. You'll have more power as a writer if you ever a name for yourself, or you can just meet him and maybe he'll put you in the writers room. So I went to the audition, you know, just like, very much so, not thinking anything was gonna come of it. And I got both the Magic show and Mike Scher.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

And I had to make a choice. You weren't allowed to do both.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

Because both wanted to be the one to discover this new, insane English woman. And so I ended up going with. I got pushed towards doing the Good Place.

[David Tennant]

How much pushing had to be done? Because if you'd never. You'd never acted.

[Jameela Jamil]

So you'd never acted. Never. Nothing. All other acting lessons. Nothing like ripe and. No, not ripe. Raw.

[David Tennant]

Was that the first acting audition you'd ever done?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yes.

[David Tennant]

I mean, it's a good hit rate.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's. I'm. Yeah, yeah. One for one. Yeah, yeah. So I. So I, you know, I went and I think it was just my total Calm and chill in that I didn't expect to get it. That massively helped me be funny and relaxed in the room. And I think they just hadn't seen anyone like me. Everyone was so eager and keen and hungry for it. And I was not, you know, because I was like, I. I didn't think, I didn't see that for myself. I consider acting so important to me in that I love movies. I worked in a video shop for five years. It was the best job I've ever done. To this day, it's the happiest I've ever been at work. It's just sitting down, watching films all day long, taking stock, rewinding them, finding out who's renting porn. It was just everything that I needed. And I worked in Hampstead in Bells House park, so all the celebrities are there, so I knew who was watching that, what, who was cheating, who was doing this, that and the other. I was like a singular teenage Daily Mail all in one person just holding all the secrets of the British industry.

[David Tennant]

Because there's things to be learned about people on what they are hiring. Is it now? Of course, that's all secretary.

[Jameela Jamil]

But also I booby trapped the Bourne section and put it right next to the till. So if you so much as breathed too hard, it was all coming down on you. And then everyone would turn around and look. I can't remember if we got Judi Dench or if we almost got Judi Dench.

[David Tennant]

You hate Judi Dench.

[Jameela Jamil]

With her, she was just trying to like get down the stairs, but I think it just nearly went. But, yeah, she was just. Yeah, making her way down the steps.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Judi Dench was not buying porn back in those days. No, that would have ruptured too many.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, she's already got her own collection at home, I imagine.

[David Tennant]

Sure, I imagine she does.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. But, yeah, so I went to the audition and I just thought I didn't deserve to be there, you know, I didn't deserve. Deserved to be in a show with my. With Mike Scher, with Ted Danson, Kristen Bell. And I tried to talk Mike Scher out of it when he gave me the job, but he insisted that it was me and he, he just threw me right in the deep end. And my first day was opposite Ted Danson, just going head to head with him. And I was such a huge fan.

[David Tennant]

So the first person you acted, obviously is Ted Danson. That's pretty.

[Jameela Jamil]

The first season. A lot of my scenes are with him.

[David Tennant]

Sure. Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Which is also an acting masterclass because He's a genius. And so I just sort of almost didn't have time to be self conscious or be afraid. I was like, well, you know, this is. There's no space for imposter syndrome because I am an imposter. So it's not a syndrome.

[David Tennant]

It's not a syndrome. It's just where we're at.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, exactly. So I've crashed the wedding. Get in snog who you can create some trouble, get some free food and fuck off.

[David Tennant]

Yes. It's interesting because I think most actors would say that's a superpower, of course, that you were given because of these extraordinary circumstances. You sort of didn't had nothing to lose. Which means you're going into that room. If you were to audition. Do you still have to audition?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, of course.

[David Tennant]

Right. But if you're going to audition now, having done some acting, have those kind of demons arrived?

[Jameela Jamil]

Totally. I think way more because now I feel as though people expect me to do a good job.

[David Tennant]

Because you're on an enormous sitcom.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, exactly. And it went really well. And then I did Marvel and then I did all these other things. And so I have the. I have a prestigious career except I've actually done pretty much near fuck all.

[David Tennant]

Yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

And that's absolutely petrifying. And I feel so deeply and self aware and unworthy of most of the rooms I end up in. Like, you know, I was in the AFI Awards winning an AFI with like Nicole Kidman in the room and Steven Spielberg and like all these different fucking people. And then I'm just, just this little cunt who a year ago, you know, was like, am I strong enough to do porn? You know, it's just. Yeah, it's just been very, very surreal. And so now if I act, I just feel embarrassed when I'm doing auditions. Cause I'm like, they probably don't know why I'm here. But I've had a fairly good success rate with the. You know, I don't audition very often. Cause I don't like a lot of scripts. I only want to do something, you know, it's a huge time commitment, It's a huge privilege, but it's a huge time commitment and time away from the people that you love. And so I only do that when it's something that feels like it's going to really nourish me and change my life. I don't work for the sake of working. I don't take any of my validation from this industry was it had Los.

[David Tennant]

Angeles, Hollywood, America had that sort of Loomed as the sort of the ultimate place to land. Is that why. No. So, but you just had enough of Britain.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, I was just sort of like. I was just on a jolly, you know, like, I just sort of. I've never taken anything seriously. I was an English teacher who didn't plan on being in this industry at all. I was street scouted in a pub, in the Green man pub on Berwick Street.

[David Tennant]

What does that mean? Someone, let's just touch someone.

[Jameela Jamil]

And I just had sort of a funny argument at the pub, at the bar. And then he was like, you should be on telly, you shouldn't be an English teacher. And I was like, I would never be on television. And he was like, oh, okay, well, it's a thousand pounds a day. And I was like, please give me the email. Yeah. And changed my tune real quick.

[David Tennant]

But some random bloke tapping on the shoulder in a pub, it doesn't.

[Jameela Jamil]

He didn't tap me on the shoulder. We had an argument. He turned out to be a TV producer.

[David Tennant]

What did you argue about?

[Jameela Jamil]

I can't remember. It was something about him having a problem with me drinking a pint of water at a pub. You know, in England you're not allowed to kn. Drink alcohol, even at 5pm on a Friday. Sure. And so it was something about that. And I was, you know, I was 21 and quippy and feisty and so I sort of snapping back at him and he was like, why aren't you on telly? And he said there was this open audition for the whole country. Anyone could apply. Cause they were looking to replace Alexa Chung.

[David Tennant]

Oh, yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

And so I sent in a little cover letter with a picture and then they asked me for a video. So I sent in a video and then they asked me to come in to Channel four and do the massive audition. And the whole time I just thought it was a lull.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

You know, I was like, again, like, obviously I'm not going to become an English teacher who overnight becomes the T4 presenter. It was the biggest fucking show.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

In the country at the time. And I. I got it.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

I don't know how, but I got it. And so I, you know, I've just been sort of like fighting for my life, really, David, this whole time. Because then I went and did radio, which I had no experience in, and I wrote a column and I'd never written a column before. I. I am so. My story is so deeply unpopular in this industry and whenever I have, I get asked all the time to come to universities and Talk about my struggle as a brown woman in this industry. And I always have to decline.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Cause I'm like, I don't, I have not struggled.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's very uncharming. Do you want me to leave?

[David Tennant]

No, I quite like it. It's refreshing.

[Jameela Jamil]

I just, I'm not gonna make up loads of strife. I've just had a really weird. I've been in exactly the right time at the right place, to the point where it constantly feels like I'm in the tr. It's all to me just getting off the phone to my agent going, fuck off. What do you mean? I got the job. It's ridiculous. And so, you know, it's good because it means I've never gotten, you know, I've never disappeared out of my asshole because I'm well aware that I don't belong here. But I'm having a lovely time and I'm working very hard because I care deeply about not letting down the people who have taken a, you know, stupid chance on me.

[David Tennant]

It's not everyone who can find the version of themself that is public facing. Cause I mean, even presenting is, it's not the same as acting, but it's a version of you that isn't entirely you, isn't it? Did you find you just had an easy access to that? Was it the same Persona that you were teaching a class with?

[Jameela Jamil]

No, it wasn't. No, it was. I really die when I look back at videos of it now. I have a tendency to turn into whoever I'm around.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

I had to take pills last night so that I didn't start doing a Scottish accent today.

[David Tennant]

I'm not joking at any point. You're very welcome.

[Jameela Jamil]

I'm not joking. I had to take pills. I have little pills that I take sometimes. Yeah. Because I, I had to. Yeah, just paracetamol. No, I, I, I did an interview for like the COVID of Indian Vogue and I had to get rid of the footage of me because I didn't realize that I'd slipped into like an Indian accent during the interview. And I was like, that comes across as inappropriate. Even though I'm from India. Like, I just, Even though you're alive, it doesn't feel, it doesn't look right where I'm like, yeah, you know, I just, like, I really care about the culture. And so it just happens without me realizing it. And so I morph into whoever I'm around. So I just fucking morphed into the other T4 presenters. And so, you know, like Alexis Speaks, you know, a little bit like that. Yeah, they all speak a bit like that. And so I. I sort of turned into like a sort of shit Steve Coogan, you know, like, because I just did it too much. I was like sort of Alan Partridge vibe. I used to speak a lot with my teeth and that's not how I speak. And then, you know, I moved on to Radio one. My accent constantly changes, my mannerisms change, my intonation changes. I'm just. It probably explains why being an actor is quite fluid for me.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Because I. I have really no idea who I am. I'm just. I'm a mirror. I'm just a wandering mirror with nipples. But when I take these pills, I become my full self and I wanted to show up today.

[David Tennant]

What pills are these exactly?

[Jameela Jamil]

I'm not going to tell people because we can't be medicating people. It might not be the right one for them. It's a very, very strong, ultimately, brain damaging anxiety medication.

[David Tennant]

Okay, okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

That's. That stops me from overthinking everything because I just. My whole life, I've just become whoever I'm around.

[David Tennant]

Sure.

[Jameela Jamil]

I don't remember why I told you this, but I've never spoken about any of this publicly.

[David Tennant]

This is the content we're here for. It's all going very well.

[Georgia Tennant]

This is an advertisement from BetterHelp.

[David Tennant]

Hi, Georgia.

[Georgia Tennant]

Hi, David.

[David Tennant]

You know when you think you're fine and then suddenly you realise that your jaw has been clenched for like three hours straight?

[Georgia Tennant]

Or you're lying awake at 3am because your brain's decided that that is the perfect time to replay every awkward thing you've ever said.

[David Tennant]

Exactly. For a long time, I don't think I really understood that that was anxiety. I thought that was just what it was to be an adult.

[Georgia Tennant]

You know what gets me? It's that creeping feeling like you're always behind, even when you're doing everything you possibly can.

[David Tennant]

And then your body goes, oh, well, since you're not listening to me, here's a massive headache and some heartburn.

[Jameela Jamil]

Mm.

[Georgia Tennant]

It's like your brain and your body team up to say, right, let's just shut the whole system down until they get the message.

[David Tennant]

But we're so used to just getting on with it, aren't we? Like being stressed is somehow normal.

[Georgia Tennant]

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be.

[David Tennant]

No.

[Georgia Tennant]

Sometimes the best thing you can do is slow down and actually talk to someone.

[David Tennant]

Therapy can really help with that. Not just in crisis moments, but for learning how to cope, how to set boundaries. How to feel more like yourself again.

[Georgia Tennant]

85% of BetterHelp therapists specialize in anxiety, and 69% of people say their symptoms improved after just six weeks.

[David Tennant]

That can really make a difference.

[Georgia Tennant]

Look at you getting all wise every now and again. All right, here's the important bit.

[David Tennant]

As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Get the tools to manage your anxiety with BetterHelp and our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Tennant that's betterhelp.com T E N-N- Psst.

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[David Tennant]

It's sort of by accident. You bounce from one thing to another. You end up on the chart show on Radio 1, which I do. I was thinking about this this morning. I don't think that means what it used to mean. The top 40 used to be huge.

[Jameela Jamil]

Everything, Everything.

[David Tennant]

I remember writing it down in a book every week as it came out. I don't know why, I don't know what I thought I was gonna do with that data. But I have a little book somewhere with week after week charts and I had a little going up, going down notation next. I mean, I wasn't the sexiest.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, probably.

[David Tennant]

Yeah, probably. But it was a massive show. And then you just went, ah, I've done that.

[Jameela Jamil]

What, me?

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. Well, I'd done it for a few years and I, I think I just, I've done that.

[David Tennant]

I'll go to Ellie.

[Jameela Jamil]

I've done that. No, I just sort of like, I was just a bit done, like, you know, I felt as though it wasn't that I was done with Radio 1. I loved Radio 1. It's just the fact that no one would let me. You know, I was trying for a year to get anyone to meet me in the kind of comedy world because I had this script that was a really good idea and, and I wanted to, you know, I wanted to do more comedy. And no one would even meet with me. Not a single agent would meet with me.

[David Tennant]

That's weird.

[Jameela Jamil]

And I was a big name here.

[David Tennant]

Yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

But it was just like, stay in your fucking lane. So I just. And it's such a shame because they would have then made a ton of money if they'd worked with me, because I got the good place. But they just. Everyone told me to fuck off. So I was like, okay. And then I was at the Glamour Awards and I was winning, like, an award or something. And then someone came up to me and they were like, oh, we'd love to have you Strictly Come Dancing. And I want to make sure that I don't come across in any way as judgmental of that show. I think it's fucking amazing television. But that's the show that a lot of people do when they're trying to have a comeback of some sort. Because you get to really be reintroduced to the public and you really let them in, and it's a real journey. They go on with you. And I was like, I'm fucking 28. Why am I needing to reinvent myself? And I was like, that's the sort of thing I could see myself doing maybe now, like, not now because my career's changed, but, like, you know, I could see myself doing that in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, or whatever. But I didn't need a second act. I was still getting into my first act. But in England back then, we saw 30 as time for a woman to need to reinvent herself. And I was like, this is just fucking nonsense. So I just left. I just left. I was like, okay, I guess I've hit. I've done everything that I could possibly want to do. I've done all the BBC documentaries and done the chart, like, won the awards, done that. You know, I've had all the. And they weren't gonna let me try anything new, so I just buggered off. And I think that's why we lose a lot of British talent, you know, here. And so for a decade, I just went off to America just to see what was out there. I didn't plan on becoming an actress. I just wanted to know if I could do anything else.

[David Tennant]

Cause America's always been a bit better at that. You think?

[Jameela Jamil]

I think that. I mean, it's not even just better. I mean, it's a completely different way of working. They are excited by a multi hyphenate. A multi hyphenate here is seen as someone who's a bit distracted and doesn't A master of all. Sorry, a jack of all trades, master of none. Whereas they're not looking for a master of anything in America. They're looking for. How many different hats do you wear? How many different ways can you be utilized? Show us all the different ways that you're special. Almost to the detriment, by the way, of a lot of artists. Because it's like the way that we expect pop stars to also be hilarious and amazing at social media, and we expect actors to do amazing interviews and tell viral stories on Jimmy Fallon. It's like, these are artists. We're all weirdos. We're not supposed to be good at that. But in America, you have to be good at everything. And you have to be able to sing and you have to be able to do this and that and the other and be a perfect activist and a politician and a da da, da, da, da. And so, you know. But I just think for me, at that time, it felt like an adventure was still possible there. And I think England's changed a lot in the last 10 years. It's getting way better. Totally. You've got Catherine Ryan, like, making TV shows and sitcoms and stuff, and, you know, all these different people who are now branching out. Ramesh. And so I feel as though we're in a better place. It just wasn't there when I was here.

[David Tennant]

No, it was true.

[Jameela Jamil]

I would have loved to have done it here.

[David Tennant]

Yeah, but you did go to Hollywood. You did against.

[Jameela Jamil]

I did. Well, I met you. How. What was our interaction like?

[David Tennant]

I was. I think I'd. I think I'd just read something about the fact that you'd given up the chart show.

[Jameela Jamil]

Right.

[David Tennant]

And then suddenly I'm sitting like a wanker in Soho House, Los Angeles. I was overdoing some press and publicity, so I was peak wanker. And then you suddenly were just there. I can't even remember who I was with. I don't know who. Our cohort that obviously overlapped, but we ended up having a chat about it. And I was going, oh, yeah, I've just read you've given up the Charter Show. And you went, yeah, and I'm here. I went, what are you here for? No idea. Yeah, it was pretty much that. And then, as you've explained, and then I don't remember sort of hearing your name for a year or so, and then suddenly you were on the Good Place.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, and then I was fucking everywhere for a bit. I couldn't get my fucking mouth shut.

[David Tennant]

Well, but then you also. Well, you happened to, by Accident land on what one might describe as the last big network US Hit, because they don't really happen anymore.

[Jameela Jamil]

No.

[David Tennant]

Maybe young Sheldon.

[Jameela Jamil]

Maybe.

[David Tennant]

I don't know. But, you know, these shows, the Friends and the Frasiers and the Cheers, they don't sort of exist because the way we consume television has changed. And yet the Good Place bucked that trend, didn't it?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, and it was such a strange show that didn't follow any rules and it didn't dumb itself down for the audience. It had faith in the audience, which.

[David Tennant]

I think clever and funny and surprising.

[Jameela Jamil]

A lot of network TV has suffered for the fact that they underestimate the intelligence of the American public. I think that's also a problem here, partially, but not as bad. I think British television is just fundamentally better. But you can see when they're doing it. You can see when they're going after the lowest common denominator and underestimating how smart the British public are. And so cable didn't underestimate people. Cable went out looking for, you know, those who want something more. Well, they did, but now we're all fucked because of second screen viewing.

[David Tennant]

Because we're all on our phones at the same time.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. So for anyone who doesn't know, second screen viewing is something that is asked for by networks where they. We have become so openly addicted to our phones that they. We will be scrolling on our phones while watching a TV show, which is so fucking depressing. And so they need all of the plot lines to be simple enough that you'll be able to still follow along while shopping on your phone. And so they ask writers to dumb down and dumb down and dumb down their plots so that people can still follow along in the background. That's what we've allowed to happen to art. And we as a public have the chance and the responsibility to turn that around.

[David Tennant]

Sure, but how do we do that?

[Jameela Jamil]

I mean, have our phones, like, make.

[David Tennant]

A. I will not. I will not be on my phone when I'm watching tv. No, I will not do it.

[Jameela Jamil]

Same.

[David Tennant]

And sometimes I really want to be, because it's not always great.

[Jameela Jamil]

I do pick up my phone during sex scenes because I can't watch them.

[David Tennant]

Right. Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

So I have to. Yeah, I start making menus of things that I'd like to order on Ubereats.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

During that time. And why?

[David Tennant]

What is it about? Cause obviously, we know you considered a career in porn, so what is it about witnessing a sex scene that you find so difficult?

[Jameela Jamil]

It doesn't reflect real life, unlike porn. Which is like a documentary at night. Exactly. Like a hidden camera show. No, but it's. I feel shy. I feel shy watching it. It doesn't reflect real life because you're.

[David Tennant]

Imagining you're that actor kind of going, oh, sorry, could you move the sheet?

[Jameela Jamil]

Oh, no, it's not that. No. It just feels like. I mean, I don't really know why there are sex scenes in films at all. I miss the crashing wave or the, you know, the cork coming off the champagne, the train going into the tunnel. You know, I loved all of that. I don't think we need to see so much of that. It just always feels a bit unnecessary and a bit intimate, a bit personal. It feels like being on the Tube and looking at people kissing and just continuing to look. It's like, look away.

[David Tennant]

Yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

And so I look away. It just feels. I feel as though I'm encroaching upon their privacy.

[David Tennant]

You're being police.

[Jameela Jamil]

But also, I don't know what face to make.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

What face do you make when you're watching a sex scene?

[David Tennant]

I'm not aware that.

[Jameela Jamil]

I know that that might be a problem. David, do you think.

[David Tennant]

Yeah, well, I mean, only if I'm drooling, presumably.

[Jameela Jamil]

Who knows? Even smiling. There are very few faces that you can actually make during a sex scene. Yeah. Do you want to see the one that I've landed on? If I'm in a cinema and I can't get away.

[David Tennant]

Yes, please. It's for the benefit of the smart. It's a kind of.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, they did that. They are doing that.

[David Tennant]

It's slightly.

[Jameela Jamil]

To consenting young folk.

[David Tennant]

They're not always young.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, but mostly because Hollywood has a huge ageism problem.

[David Tennant]

Because Hollywood. I'm trying to describe it to her. It's a sort of. It's a slightly smug.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, it's not smug. I don't appreciate that in.

[David Tennant]

You don't like that.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's not smug because I'm not proud of anything. It's just a sort of like, huh, okay, I'm, you know. Good for you. That's what it says. It says, good for you.

[David Tennant]

Well done, naked people.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, you did that.

[David Tennant]

Well done. Except we know you didn't really.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, not really.

[David Tennant]

You sort of pretended to really do that.

[Jameela Jamil]

I know. Get fucking close, though.

[David Tennant]

So you've not.

[Jameela Jamil]

You've never do it? No. All my contracts are like, no sex scenes, very little kissing, and I'll only do comedy kissing. I dropped out of two projects this year cause they wanted me to be, like, physically intimate, you know? With the other person. And I was just like, I just can't take myself seriously here. This is too weird. It's ridiculous. I could pretend to kill someone.

[David Tennant]

Are you sure?

[Jameela Jamil]

I could pretend to do all. I pretended to fall down a sinkhole. You know, I could do all kinds of things, but I won't do that.

[David Tennant]

I don't think your career in porn would have worked.

[Jameela Jamil]

Really? Not, no. But you know what? Frigid porn is actually underused. No, but it's. I think that there's a niche for that, you know, don't touch me. Yeah, exactly. Many of us feel that way. Touching me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

I mean, yeah, maybe I took too many anti anxiety.

[David Tennant]

No, you've taken just the right amount.

[Jameela Jamil]

Loosey goosey with my thoughts.

[David Tennant]

It's just perfect. So when you. So suddenly you're in la, suddenly you're in this massive hit show.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah.

[David Tennant]

And do you think la's. How quickly did it take off? Was it a big hit straight away?

[Jameela Jamil]

It was.

[David Tennant]

Were you.

[Jameela Jamil]

Immediately. Immediately. And, like, within five months, I was shooting the, like, Deadline or Variety magazine, like, who's most likely to win an Emmy photo shoot.

[David Tennant]

Right. So it was within the first season. It went mad.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. By the time I came back to season two, like, I was being recognized everywhere. And then we ended up on Netflix by the time season two came out. And then it was just stratospheric. Stratospheric. Stratospheric.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

And then now there's not a country in the world I can go to where people don't freak out and start calling me Tahani.

[David Tennant]

And is that okay?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, it's lovely.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

Always lovely. Always lovely. Always lovely. The only time I've ever had a problem with being approached in public is when I was in the middle of a screaming match with my brother, and she still asked for a photo. And I was like, that's crazy, because we are in the middle of a barney. But I still did it. I look a little stressed in the photo.

[David Tennant]

You've seen the photograph, have you?

[Jameela Jamil]

She activated it because she. I want to see this. But no, no, I'm very, very comfortable with it. I feel very, very. I am an effusive fan girl.

[David Tennant]

Nice.

[Jameela Jamil]

And when I go to the Golden Globes, I want to fucking meet everyone and I want a fucking selfie. Right, David?

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Good.

[Jameela Jamil]

I'm amazed. It's only because there's a rule in Soho House that we can't take photos. Otherwise I would have fucking asked you for a selfie.

[David Tennant]

Yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

Like, I loved, like, any chance I've ever had of getting to meet people that did a thing that made me happy. And so I think it would be so gross and such bad karma if I ever shut that energy off for anyone who's excited to meet me. Do you know what I mean? So I know what that feels like when you're in the room with someone. I met Jim Carrey or I met Melissa McCarthy or Kristen Wiig. It's like I'm just bursting with wanting to just tell them that I love them and they made me really happy one time. And so I think it's just a beautiful thing. And I think it's a bit fucking. I don't know. I don't mean to sound judgmental. People who have a problem with it, everyone's got their own boundaries and their own issues. But I just think it's really exciting if someone wants to be like, oh, I really loved that thing you did, or it really cheered me up during the pandemic. It just feels very nice to me and it feels like a nice flow. And therefore the universe has allowed me to meet people I love for sure.

[David Tennant]

But it's sort of different at the Golden Globes to you having a screaming match in the street with your brother. There are moments when. When it. Presumably you would like to switch it off.

[Jameela Jamil]

I. Yeah, but I. But I don't have. No. I mean, I listen. In an ideal world, I have total privacy. The thing I fucking hate is when people take photographs or videos of me without asking me first.

[David Tennant]

Ah, right. Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

That's the only boundary I draw.

[David Tennant]

And do you call them on it?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, I just say, like, hey, like, come over, let's do a picture. Like, please don't do that because now you're just creeping me. You're making me feel like I feel self conscious in public. That's not cool. That enters into, like, paparazzi territory and that's not ideal.

[David Tennant]

Somebody asked me for an autograph when I was in the shower at the gym.

[Jameela Jamil]

That's insane.

[David Tennant]

A naked man came up to me, also naked, and asked with a piece of paper and asked for me to sign.

[Jameela Jamil]

What did you say?

[David Tennant]

I sort of. I was so taken aback.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, I sort of knob out. Oh.

[David Tennant]

We were both naked. Naked humans.

[Jameela Jamil]

Two naked humans.

[David Tennant]

Knob to knob. I think I swivel. So I think I was still knob facing the wall.

[Jameela Jamil]

Right. Okay.

[David Tennant]

Because I didn't want. He wasn't. He was standing very much.

[Jameela Jamil]

He was knob at you. You were shaft at wall.

[David Tennant]

I was at wall because, you know, you're turning to the wall to shower anyway. Yeah, there was sort of open, you know, those sort of open pens was one of them.

[Jameela Jamil]

That's crazy.

[David Tennant]

And so I'm sort of, I think, washing hair at the time. And I sort of swivel my top half when I'm tapped on the shoulder already. Inappropriate. Don't tap a naked person on their naked shoulder. Yeah. And then he's holding out a bit of paper, which is slowly turning to mulch.

[Jameela Jamil]

Oh, my God.

[David Tennant]

You know. Cause there's a lot of water flapping around. But in that moment, I can think, if you can't see how inappropriate this is, it's going to be quicker for me to just sign this and move on, because what's the point of interacting.

[Jameela Jamil]

Trying to do it. But people are just genuinely missing the chip of the awkwardness. And I'm sure they walk away later.

[David Tennant]

Thinking, well, that woman who.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yes, that was probably not cool. Although she did tag me in it, so I think she didn't really get it. But, you know, it is what it is. But that's the only time I can ever think of a time where I was like, not now. I really like the one where Gerard Butler got asked at dinner for two girls, were like, excuse me, could you take a photo of us? And he was like, I'm at food. I'm having food with my family. I am fucking relaxing. I'm trying to have a nice time. And they were like, we don't know who you are. We just wondered if you would take a photo of us.

[David Tennant]

Brilliant.

[Jameela Jamil]

Fucking hilarious.

[David Tennant]

Brilliant.

[Jameela Jamil]

Hilarious. God bless him for telling that story as well.

[David Tennant]

Brilliant. Well done. Yes, well done, Gerard.

[Jameela Jamil]

Well done. It would really, really hurt my feelings if I loved someone and I just wanted a quick second to tell them I love them. And then they were mean to me. It would really, like, kill every bit of work I've ever seen they've done. And so I just try to remember that anytime anyone stops me, yeah, sure. But there you go. Yeah, I'm just a really great person.

[David Tennant]

David, you're not really. I mean, there's no.

[Jameela Jamil]

Am I? Jesus. Who's to say? Foreign?

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[David Tennant]

You're losing your anonymity. But that's all good because it's very positive.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. And an interesting thing that I found with my relationship with fame, because I definitely found being famous in England really, really stressful. But that's partially because I had no idea who I was. And the version of me that was put out to the public was so disingenuous versus who I really, really was. Cause I didn't know who I was. Cause I was in my fucking 20s and I was being so careful. And. And when you're a girl in this industry as well, you're so fear mongered about doing anything wrong, it'll all be taken away from you because there's another singular woman who will take your place and she'll be the new only woman in the room. So you're just terrified. And now that I'm older, you know, I'm almost 40, I know exactly who I am. I feel so comfortable in myself. So I don't feel confronted when someone meets me irl, you know, in the real life, in the real world, when someone meets me, it used to feel so jarring. Cause it's like, oh no, I have to switch on my performance mode. But now I'm just me. And everyone knows me from Instagram. They know I'm a bit. They know me from my podcast. They know I'm a bit weird and strange and awkward and socially inept. And so they expect that of me when they meet me. And so it's just very. It's just nice. It just sort of feels like being in a big village, like in the Cheers bar. But everywhere is the Cheers bar.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. And you actually know Ted dancing. So you're allowed to be in Cheers Bar because. Yes, because alongside that, that fame, you also found a platform, didn't you? You found your voice as someone with stuff to say. Did that seek you out or did you seek it out?

[Jameela Jamil]

I don't think either. I think I just, you know, I've been speaking out about stuff that I cared about and thought about. I've been speaking in Parliament for years when I was in England. It's just. It's just that I caught the zeitgeist at the exact right moment. It was post. Me too. We were suddenly interested in what women wanted to say. And I said the same things five years ago. I was just Moaning and complaining. And now the same exact words were being celebrated, circulated and hyper focused on. So I think it was just the right time, right place. You know, post the MeToo movement, I happened to be a good communicator and I was writing these essays on a blog that was just sort of circulating and permeating and I just sort of hit the right note with what I was saying for the moment. And people really resonated with me and people just sort of swarmed towards me because I was unmedia trained, you know, I was just saying what I really thought about the very industry I was in. I was lifting back the curtain and exposing everything and exposing everyone. And I think the public felt like I was their inside man. And I think in some way I still am. You know, I'm not saying I'm so relatable. I know I don't live a relatable life, but I was a documentary maker for years and I think I still look a bit at this industry like. Like I'm still, you know, an investigative journalist going, what the fuck are we doing? What are we putting out into the world? This is such an amazing opportunity to put art and beauty and hope and unity into the world. And we just pump so much shit out there, so much toxicity. And so I guess it's my kind of carbon footprint, my asshole footprint, right?

[David Tennant]

You mean you're making up.

[Jameela Jamil]

Making up for, you know, what I'm, you know, whatever we put out. I guess I'm trying to be like, I'm just hoping that the industry can become a better, safer place for everyone right inside and the people who consume what we make. Because it, it makes a difference. It changes people. I've been changed by films that I've seen. And so you can do that for the better or for the worse.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. So you have this. So you're very engaged online. You're in that space.

[Jameela Jamil]

Very engaged. But I think for a really long time I really just didn't get that my platform was becoming so big. Cause it's just numbers, you know, like I'm just alone in my bed, you know, hi, you know, just tweeting and tweeting away, feeling like I'm just having a chat and just wanting to be involved in conversation. I didn't think of it as like me with millions of followers speaking to the masses and they shall listen and that, you know, I wasn't preaching anything. I was just trying to start a conversation or be part of a conversation. But it got. I was really like fucked by the media. The Way they always, even just yesterday, the way they reframe the way I'm talking, as if I'm preaching at everyone, finger wagging at everyone. I'm always on my soapbox. I'm the ultimate lift, you know, lefty, liberal, snowflake. And you know, I hate men and this, that and the other. And I'm pro cancel culture. I've been loudly against cancel culture for years. I've been loudly talking about my empathy and sympathy for Men since 2018. I made a whole speech about it, a 10 minute speech about it that I gave on a big platform. I have been framed by the media as this like very aggressive misandrist, constantly moaning and complaining, screaming, hysterical, violent nightmare. And that's just not who I am. But you know, I also fed into that by being very, very loose on the Internet. I called Lawrence Fox, I said he looked like a freshly wanked. You can't say stuff like that when you've got 4 million followers. I said that Piers Morgan was a shit stain smeared across our country, country's nation's history. You know, like I was, I, I was sort of kidding. But you know, but also that's just not how to speak when you also speak at the UN Right. And I just didn't know that there's any rules. I was just being myself.

[David Tennant]

So you've had to sort of learn on the job how to be politic is what you mean.

[Jameela Jamil]

Not just politic, but also recognizing that I was part of the problem of the left, of the liberals. You know, like we are just such aggressive and intolerant people. We're all like diversity, but not diversity of thought and inclusion. But not if you don't like abide by everything that we say. Like we're just like we're a cult. And I think that we are, I think our hearts are in the right places. But I think the way that we behave is sanctimonious and it is hypocritical at times. And I think we push the very people that we most need to convert or open the minds of away. We push the people who already agree with us away. The way that we look at things is as if like, you know, you could, someone can agree with you on 95% of the same things and if they disagree with us on one thing, that entire 95% gets thrown away and we just kick you out and we ostracize you and punish you and shame you. We are an off putting group and I was part of that because I was loud and I was callous, and I didn't communicate with empathy. And so I ended up just alienating. Lawrence Fox's fans or Piers Morgan's fans just think that they probably think because I think the person they like is a piece of shit, that I think they're all pieces of shit. And I didn't show myself to be educated in that moment or tolerant. So I'm not modeling any of the things that I wish to see from those men. You have to be the fucking change you wish to see in the world. And liberals are not very good at doing that right now.

[David Tennant]

But the other side are. I mean, Lawrence Fox is not shy of taking it an insult.

[Jameela Jamil]

Totally, totally. But. And it's not that I should just sit there and take it, but when, you know, I've said this before recently, that, like, you know, I've got such an instinct of, like, I'm not. I'm not always a very good person. Like, when you go low, I'll go lower. And my instinct is to drag you into the lava of hell and then pull you down by the tiny little hairs around your anus. And that's my. That's my base instinct. And I have to fight that if I want to be able to. You can't fight hate with hate. I don't think you need to fight it with love, but you need to fight it with sense. And I think that we give in to our. We've been so provoked by very base people into behaving in a similarly base way, but then acting like we are morally superior. And even if the things that we want are morally superior, the way we go about it is horrifying. And we have alienated people who are on our side who've now become, quote, unquote, centrists or center right. You know, we. We are. We push people away. We speak callously and cruelly to people, and then we don't say sorry. And I don't want to be a part of that. Over the course of, like, the pandemic, watching the way liberals, you know, or people who are pro vaccine talk to people who are anti vaccine or, you know, race conversations, trans conversations, everything, it was all so volatile on both sides. And I realized that my being so celebrated for being so callous and reactive and outspoken. Not outspoken, but you know what I mean, like volatile. I was put on the COVID of Vogue. I was put in Time magazine's 25 most influential list. I couldn't have been more congratulated. It sent out a message to women and to everyone that this is how you get ahead. This is how to behave. This is celebrated behavior. And actually, if I could go back and change the way that I behaved, I would. And so I've spent the last few years of the pandemic trying to reframe everything I think and say the same things, but in a kinder and more informed way that actually has a chance at opening someone else's mind. Because neurologically, when you label someone, when you make them feel unsafe or you make them feel like they're gonna be locked out of the group, which triggers tribalism, like anthropological tribalism in them, where they feel terrified, they start to have a cortisol stress reaction when they think of you. So then you can't actually get through to them, actually making people feel safe, even if you hate them, even if you disagree with them, even if you disagree with the things they think, you think they're morally reprehensible. You have a better logistical, scientific chance of converting them by making them feel safe. And we don't do that at all. And that's what I'm trying to now do.

[David Tennant]

I think that's laudable and it makes sense, and it's based in kindness and outreach and all the things that it feels like instinctively we need to do. And yet anyone who sticks their head above any sort of parapet these days will get a lot of support and connect with a lot of people, but will also receive, it just seems, as a matter of fact, torrents of abuse. Yeah, because people in their bedrooms know where to find you, and idiots around the world can sort of, you know, tap something out on a keyboard and it will reach you. Are you. Are you equipped against that? Are you. Are you fine to let all that bounce off? Or does that get to you?

[Jameela Jamil]

Sometimes just the amount lies really get to me. Lies get to me a lot other than lies. If it's something that I've done that's pissed people off, I can accept that. It's how I learn. It's how I grow. I've grown up so much, and I've learned so much from the fact that people have just been like, no, you were. You fucking missed the mark here. That's fine, right? When it comes to just standard abuse, I find rape threats very distressing because I'm human, but other than that. I used to be an Internet troll, David. I was a Internet.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. And I didn't even realize I was. But I was just, like, on the Internet just to make fun of people and be mean. This is. This is, like, at the very beginning of Social media. And I was slut shaming. And I was a misogynist. And I didn't know anything about activism. I didn't know what the word patriarchy was. I didn't know anything. I was just. Because I was just mentally ill and lonely and insane. And so I would get online and just be a little bitch. And so I understand the mentality of someone who feels so disempowered in their own life and they have so much rage pent up and needs to go somewhere and they. They can't, for whatever reason, express it where they are. So they just think, oh, this is also dehumanized. I'm just gonna, like, split, spurt out some shit online. And it's not really gonna hurt anyone. Cause it's just words. So I kind of get it. So it doesn't really bother me when I see that. I go, you're lonely or you're. You're having a mental health crisis because.

[David Tennant]

You recognize the emotion.

[Jameela Jamil]

I recognize that behavior.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

No one happy. I haven't written a Yelp print. You know what I mean? Like, I haven't gone online to slag anyone off or be mean to someone or write something unkind about someone's appearance in the comment section because I'm a happy person. If you have the inclination to do that, that is an immediate. Like, that's a distress signal that says you need to check out what's going on in your own life. That you even had the instinct to do that. Because this is weird. It's not bad. It's sad.

[David Tennant]

So when you were doing that, what. What changed? When was there a moment when you went, oh, hang on. What the fuck?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, I had a nervous fucking breakdown and I got therapy and I became a happier person and started living a happier life. And then boom, the urge to be a cunt went away.

[David Tennant]

Nice. Yeah. Good.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. But I was one and I own that and I understand it and I'm really glad now, kind of, because it. It makes all of this like. I'm sort of sodden with empathy. Empathy now towards a lot of the people who are just angry, sad and disenfranchised. And that we dehumanize celebrity. The amount of celebrities I was such, I was so rude about. And then I had to fucking meet them in real life. I didn't think I was gonna move to LA and then meet everyone and then my fucking go out with a musician who then worked with half the people that I slagged off when I was on the chart. And I'd be sitting in a studio with them being like, so I said some things.

[David Tennant]

Would you always fess up?

[Jameela Jamil]

Always.

[David Tennant]

Oh, well done.

[Jameela Jamil]

And only if they were being really nice to me. If they weren't nice to me, then I'd be, like, glad about what I was.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. But if they're being nice to me, then I feel very, very fake. Not admitting.

[David Tennant]

And did everyone always take the apology?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. They were stunned, right? Yeah. It sort of weirdly got me a lot of respect. But also, you know, probably didn't feel great to hear that I ever said that about them publicly.

[David Tennant]

I think that's a therapy in itself, that going through that.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's an AA step, isn't it? It really is, isn't it?

[David Tennant]

Yeah, it very much is. All the people you've wronged and apologize, tasting my demons.

[Jameela Jamil]

But the demon is me.

[David Tennant]

Well, especially if you've got.

[Jameela Jamil]

I mean, but I understand dehumanizing these people and then realizing, oh, my God, these are just, like, really normal.

[David Tennant]

Especially if you can do it with wit and articulacy. I mean, I'm not condoning how you use it, but freshly wanked cork is a great expression.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's art. It is art.

[David Tennant]

It is artistic. Yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

But I still regret it.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Yeah, fair enough.

[Jameela Jamil]

Foreign.

[Unknown]

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[David Tennant]

Let me understand a bit where you came from. You grew up in Hampstead.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, I grew up.

[David Tennant]

You didn't.

[Jameela Jamil]

No. So I. I started. So a. A kid who bullied me at primary school, who I haven't seen since I was nine, updates my Wikipedia every day and writes nonsense on it.

[David Tennant]

Oh, wow.

[Jameela Jamil]

I am 38. I haven't seen this person since I was nine years old. And they just rewrite my Wikipedia page.

[David Tennant]

Oh. So anything I may feel like I know about you from the online life.

[Jameela Jamil]

Someone who I fell out with or something, I guess I don't remember them, but I fell out with. But I know who it is because they stalk me. But I haven't seen this person since I was nine. So I've said something between the age of six and nine and it's fucked them off.

[David Tennant]

Wow.

[Jameela Jamil]

And they have now carried on, which is an actually deeply admirable 30 year grudge and they're very dedicated. I. So I think they don't have a job to staying on top of my Wikipedia and writing all kinds of crazy shit. So I look mad on Wikipedia. But no, I didn't grow up in Hampstead. I did eventually end up in Hampstead by my teens, but I started in Dulwich and then worked my way slowly up the city, then, like for a while, then went back to Croydon, then I moved to Spain, then I moved to Pakistan, then I came back and we lived in like Camden and then we moved eventually to Belsize park and then Swiss Cottage and then eventually landed in Hampstead in a council flat.

[David Tennant]

Why were you moving about so much?

[Jameela Jamil]

Because we had no fucking money.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

So we kept on being thrown out by bailiffs and then had to keep moving country sometimes when we didn't have enough money to eat in England.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

Because my grandmother lived in. One of my grandmothers lived in Spain and the other one lived in Pakistan.

[David Tennant]

Ah, so what did your parents do?

[Jameela Jamil]

Do my. I don't talk a lot about my family, but. So, yeah, you know, I'm not going to talk about my family because I chose to put myself in this position. But they didn't.

[David Tennant]

Okay, all right, we can do that. But you do have.

[Jameela Jamil]

What they did do was not handle money very well.

[David Tennant]

I see.

[Jameela Jamil]

Right.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

So, yeah, and they were not together, so it was, you know, just like a very, very fraught, crazy childhood. And so it was just. Yeah, it was distressing. But it also means, again, quite conducive to Hollywood because I'm always moving country.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

So I find that very easy. I just adapt anyway. You can just plonk me anywhere now.

[David Tennant]

Did that mean you. You moved through a whole bunch of different schools as well then?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, quite a few schools, but I. I moved 13 times by the time that I was 11.

[David Tennant]

That's not normal. Well, it's not easy for a kid to. If you're moving about all the time, you know, you're not, you're not. You don't. You're not moving through school with a consistent French.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, no, no, no. But I was very, very lonely until I was 19.

[David Tennant]

Okay. What happened at 19?

[Jameela Jamil]

Met some friends who finally got me.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

I was very, very weird and lonely at school. I was very bad at. Probably slightly damaged from the amount of moving and stuff as a kid. But I was a very strange child. Very odd, strange thing. Never said the right thing at the right time. Would just blurt out any Thought in my head, obviously the changing personality and act accent probably threw people off. I would stare at children quite a lot because I was trying to learn how to be more like them because they seemed normal and popular. And I was, you know, one of very few brown kids in a very white prestigious school. And I was on a scholarship. So.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

They came from like crazy money and I came from minus money and I just had to, you know, I was very, very studious. That was not considered cool back then. And I didn't drink and I didn't smoke and I didn't do drugs. I hadn't kissed anyone. And so I was just like a kind of quintessential Lo who would just sit there on my own in the lunchroom staring at everyone, trying to figure out how I could be more normal, become more like them.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

And I got bullied really badly. There was, I was writing on my sub stack. I write essays on substack.

[David Tennant]

Yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

And I, I was writing about the fact that there was this one group of girls who used to come over to my house on like a Saturday night, like loads of them. And I'd always hope that they were going to invite me out, but they would come over just to let me know that they're going out on a fun night out and that I'm not invited. Invited. They would come all the way to my house.

[David Tennant]

That's an investment.

[Jameela Jamil]

Just find out what I'm doing. And I was always watching like the Eurovision Song Contest or something in my rugrats pajamas. And then they'd be like, cool, well, we're going out to a really fun party. Bye.

[David Tennant]

Wow.

[Jameela Jamil]

Just girls schools are fucking terrible. But also I did behave like a school shooter. So, you know, I take, I take responsibility.

[David Tennant]

You're slightly letting them off the hook.

[Jameela Jamil]

But listen, kids are kids, kids are weird. Kids don't like anything different.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's an anthropological instinct. And I was incredibly different and weird and they were badly raised and my life's better than theirs now, so fuck em. Boom. But, but that having been said, At 19, I met a group of boys who were all strange musicians and they just pulled me into their arms and made me their friend. And they are now the people that I've been living with for the last 10 years and in LA, so they've been there my whole life.

[David Tennant]

What. Do you think there are advantages to single sex education schools? Do you think they're just a bad idea?

[Jameela Jamil]

I think there can be advantages because I think that it's very confusing to go through that Sex hormone. You know, boys are already so distracting to the girls in my school, just being a school away. So I imagine it's difficult. But I would say it would be better to integrate kids. You know, I think that it's better for boys and girls to learn how to live among each other and learn how to treat each other with kindness and respect. And we just need to do more about teaching them about kindness and respect and consent and all these different things at school, rather than just putting a condom on a banana and leaving it at that. I. I think I prefer mixed schools, and Europe's more mixed, and I think that that's better.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

What do you think?

[David Tennant]

I'm not. I mean, I went to a very box mixed comprehensive, so that's the only experience I have.

[Jameela Jamil]

Look at you. You're lovely. You're. Well, you're stable. National treasure. Boom.

[David Tennant]

Not a school shooter, I don't think.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, no, no, no. I bet you were popular at school, weren't you?

[David Tennant]

Not really, no. I was quite dorky. I mean, I wasn't unpopular, but neither was I one of the popular kids.

[Jameela Jamil]

Right, right, right.

[David Tennant]

I was on the outer circle of that.

[Jameela Jamil]

Okay.

[David Tennant]

You know, National Health glasses.

[Jameela Jamil]

Outer circle was a dot to me. I was so far back.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah.

[David Tennant]

Okay. Did that give you a lot of misery? I mean, were you very. Or did you sort of come to terms with. This is who I am. I'm a sort of. I'm the weird kid. And there's. There's a joy in that, you know.

[Jameela Jamil]

I don't think it really dawned on me that I was lonely. I just thought I've just got to do more. So, you know, I'd go to, like, house parties, but I wouldn't know how to talk to anyone, so I'd set up a coat check. You know, at a house party. I was industrious.

[David Tennant]

That is industrious.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. Or I would bring my. If it was the summer, and I.

[David Tennant]

Can see the advantage to that now, to be honest.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, exactly. I'm telling you. But if it was the summer and I knew people wouldn't have their coats, I would panic and I'd be like, well, what am I gonna. So I'd bring bin liners, and then I would clean up the party during the course of it, while everyone else was fingering, I was tidying.

[David Tennant]

So you weren't being fingered at school at all?

[Jameela Jamil]

No, no, no. No one kissed me until I was 21.

[David Tennant]

Wow.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah.

[David Tennant]

Was it really good? Was it worthwhile?

[Jameela Jamil]

It was really fucking good.

[David Tennant]

Was it?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. It was great. It was one of my best friends.

[David Tennant]

It's good because the first kiss at 13, probably it wouldn't have been.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, it was crazy. It was like violins and fireworks. I was really thrilled. I was really, really lucky. Yeah. Yeah. Because he was like. He was like 26 and I was 21 and he just knew what he was doing. And he gave me the best fucking first kiss that I think anyone's ever had.

[David Tennant]

Nice.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah.

[David Tennant]

Good.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. Pretty good.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Great.

[Jameela Jamil]

But, I mean, he kissed me out of sympathy because everyone was. Everyone.

[David Tennant]

It sounds less sexy, I'll be honest.

[Jameela Jamil]

My 21st birthday had come along and I'd gotten 20 copies of 40 Year Old Virgin because everyone was sure that that was gonna be me.

[David Tennant]

Wow.

[Jameela Jamil]

So a friend of mine took it upon me to kiss me.

[David Tennant]

Wow. Just a kiss, though, just to get well.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, I mean. Then the floodgates opened.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. Became a maniac. But only with that one person. And then I've only shagged five people ever. But I think considering I've only kissed six people, pretty good fucking odds again.

[David Tennant]

It's a good hit rate.

[Jameela Jamil]

I'm a precision striker, so, you know. Yeah, pretty good.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

In my ho phase.

[David Tennant]

One of the things you've been very candid about is that in your teenage years you. You started to struggle with anorexia.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yes.

[David Tennant]

Which is not uncommon to women of your generation. Women of any generation. My wife is of a very similar vintage to you and she says that Kate Moss's quote, nothing to do. Devastated. Stated a generation.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah. What a lie. Has she ever had a crosstown donut? Poor Kate. Who was feeding Kate?

[David Tennant]

Nobody.

[Jameela Jamil]

Nobody.

[David Tennant]

Nobody was feeding nobody.

[Jameela Jamil]

I've had sourdough pizza, Kate.

[David Tennant]

I know, I know.

[Jameela Jamil]

She's taken it back, bless her.

[David Tennant]

Has she taken it back?

[Jameela Jamil]

She took it back years ago. Yeah.

[David Tennant]

Did she? Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Because I reckon she's eaten something really good finally and been like, hell. This is actually not as good as being skinny.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Um. So, yeah, no, we were in the heroin chic era and you just sort of didn't really feel like you had a choice. And it was so hypernormalized. Like, it was weird to enjoy a meal. There was a queue in my school for girls wanting to vomit up lunch.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

It was just very, very normal. And everyone was passing around tic tacs and, you know, it was just like. There was a one girl who sat next to me in English class who would bring a weighing scale in and she would eat her lunch standing on the weighing scale. Hell, it was really extreme. It Wasn't just me. It was like the entire generation. And so, you know, because there was no one there, teachers didn't intervene, there were no education classes, no nutrition classes, no. No one told us about bone density or our periods going away or the damage that you do to your metabolism, to your heart, the fact that your heart is a muscle. And starving yourself strips muscle. I wish someone had told me because now I've got all the health problems of someone who starved myself for 20 years and I had no ide year. Yeah, I only just learned that my bone density would be this bad. I had a DEXA scan or whatever it's called, and they were like, yeah, you have. You have a huge loss of bone density. I didn't know that that could happen.

[David Tennant]

Because you didn't eat when you were still growing.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, I didn't eat and my kidney doesn't work properly and my stomach doesn't work properly. And my mental health struggled. Because your microbiome is. Is hugely instrumental in the way that your hormones work. You know, 90 of serotonin's made in the gut, 50% of dopamine. So if we don't eat properly. That's why the weight loss injections are quite scary now, because they're fucking with your microbiome. And that's why some people kill themselves on these medications because they're having a disproportionate dopamine and serotonin dysregulation, and it happens very fast. So, yeah, that's what was going on. And I remember Gwyneth Paltrow talking about the fact that she eats naked at home in an Elle magazine article so that she can stop herself from overindulging. And all the supermodels were Talking about their 600 calories a day diets.

[David Tennant]

And yeah, as you are proving right now, you've been hugely articulate on this issue and it's been one of the things you've advocated very strongly for and you've founded a community for anyone who doesn't. For the three people who've not heard of AiWay, give us a quick sketch of what that movement that you founded, what it sort of is and stands for.

[Jameela Jamil]

So, okay, so this movement, it was called the I Weigh movement, and I started it in 2018 by accident because I had severe PMS in the back of a tour bus. And so I was feeling very aggy and emotional. And I kept on seeing all these adverts come up on Instagram. Not adverts, like posts come up of very accomplished women but with a number written across their body. And that number wasn't how many awards they'd won or how, you know, I don't know what their fucking net worth is or something like that. The way that we measure men, it was how much they weigh. And once you click on one, you start being bombarded with loads. And. And I was just so sick of it. I was like, what is happening? There are no pictures of men. You would never see a picture of the, you know, the Kardashians. Whatever anyone thinks of them, they are an industrious empire. Those women are business, like elite business women, and they're tycoons. And to see all of them with their weight written across each of their bodies, when would you ever see that in a family of businessmen, ever? And so I just said, I weigh my, you know, refusing to be defined by a scale. I was like, I weigh my, you know, my flaws, my germs, journey, my. The things that I contribute to society. My orgasms. I. I weigh the sum of all my parts. Like, we have to reframe the way we value women. And it just like hit a note again with the public. And I got 10,000 responses in two days. And I started an Instagram account and I thought it would be like two weeks, like the ice bucket challenge. And then seven years later, we have 1.1 million followers. And we've been able to change Instagram policies and we've been able to go to the, you know, Congress and, And speak in the Senate and all these different things. And so we have made huge strides in the way that the world talks about eating disorders and the way the world talks about diet culture. And we are a part of why celebrities no longer just casually hawk fucking diet products to people. Cause they know that I will appear.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

Batman.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

People put a Batman flare and I come in and I just start annoying you until you take it down.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

So that's what I weigh was. But it morphed eventually, very quickly, actually, I would say, into a mental health movement that then became about understanding what's happening within ourselves and within each other without being super judgmental. Because again, in social justice spaces, people make you feel like you're a bad person for not knowing everything.

[David Tennant]

Yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

Even if they themselves only learned it yesterday.

[David Tennant]

Yes.

[Jameela Jamil]

And so I wanted to create a safe space for people to be able to learn about complex issues like racism or like transphobia or eating disorders or anything in a non judgmental way where I would ask very basic questions that they would want to know.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

And that I wanted to know and I would learn in public and admit I didn't know. And some of those questions were with like, the Surgeon General of the United States. And then sometimes it was an episode with a psychic where I asked him, are ghosts watching us when we wank? And he said, yes.

[David Tennant]

And how did that.

[Jameela Jamil]

So enjoy that, everyone.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Tonight in your room.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. You just sort of completed a phase of this movement with this podcast that you've had. How many years did it run for?

[Jameela Jamil]

5 years almost.

[David Tennant]

Right. And you've just sort of put that to bed for a while.

[Jameela Jamil]

I've covered 250 subjects. It's insane. And I've put it to bed because I need to stop for a while. I need to stop and I'm moving on to something new, which is called Move for your mind. Where I weigh was amazing where it was always all about uncovering the problems. But now I need to move into an era of fixing the problems.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's all good to make, to raise awareness and, and, and learn about the history of all these issues. But especially when it comes to mental health, there is something tangible that I can do right now to help people immediately and that's bring them back to exercise. Diet culture has taken over the exercise industry. It is now so elitist and inaccessible for everyone and, and that just makes no fucking sense. Like, why should you have to wear a lemon colored two piece basically bikini that is so thin that it shows your actual anus while you're exercising? Why should that be a uniform that you have to spend £200 on to be able to feel like you can go to a gym and you feel like you have to turn up at the gym already having a six pack. I just find it so unacceptable the way that diet culture has so insidiously and pervasively infused itself into something that everyone's supposed to be doing for them, mental health and for their longevity and for good sleep? So it's called Move for your mind. We're putting on events. We've got one in London on the 18th and 19th of January and we'll be doing them all over the world. We started this year and had them in like London and New York and all sorts of places. And it will be online content and a safe space on the Internet the way it once was for eating disorders. It will now become a safe space for people who need motivation to exercise, but they may have a disability or they may be in a bigger body or they might be in an older body where we'll make you feel Safe. And we will get you to the right instructors and we will throw events. The last event we threw was so unbelievably beautiful where 175 people were still there at the end crying. Everyone cried. Cause it was the first time they'd done an exercise class. There were people in wheelchairs joining dance classes. It was so communal. The lights were low. No one felt self conscious. Everyone was wearing baggy clothes. There were no mirrors. And it was like an actual utopia. And so that made me feel really good.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

And talking about the sadnesses in the world right now are just starting to make me feel like, am I just putting out more joy doom into the world? Should I put something out that is more positive right now that actually is tangibly going to change your day? And exercise does that.

[David Tennant]

Nice. I think it's interesting how often you mention the word safe. And I think that's very key, isn't it? It's allowing people to not be sure. It's allowing people. And that sort of goes back to how you were talking about the right wing, left wing thing. That, that right wing space feels safe because it's, because you can't see anything wrong. There's nothing, There is no sort of.

[Jameela Jamil]

No. As long as you're generally with them, they'll accept you.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Whereas with us, it's like you're lucky to be here. You're lucky to be allowed to support us. And you should be able to. If you're really about the cause, you better be able to eat all the we throw at you. It's like, who wants to join that?

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

I, I, I don't want to be part of this. How many with this group? Because we happen to share the same values, but I hate that.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Is Britain home again now? Have you moved back?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, I left back in March.

[David Tennant]

Was that linked to where you saw America going or was it just time to come home?

[Jameela Jamil]

Sort of. Sort of. I think I just love England so much and every time I was coming home, I was finding it harder and harder to leave. And I just miss my friends and they're going through so much and they're having their second babies and they're getting married or they're getting divorced and I just want to be home. Like, I prefer the work here and I love America and I've had a lovely time but 10 years was plenty.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

I needed to get away, I needed to reframe myself and I've done that. And now I just feel I'm very in love with England and So I've wanted to be here. And who knows where I'll go in the future.

[David Tennant]

Sure.

[Jameela Jamil]

If the far right do. Actually, it's Nigel Farage becomes the next Prime Minister, I will obviously, Lord, help us all to like Thailand.

[David Tennant]

Yeah. Where's next?

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, exactly.

[David Tennant]

Where do we all run away to?

[Jameela Jamil]

I have no idea. Yeah. I had a really nice time in Mauritius recently. I might just go there. They serve curry at breakfast. I was like, brilliant. But, yeah, I currently have been home. I'm writing a book slightly about neuroscience.

[David Tennant]

Okay.

[Jameela Jamil]

And, you know, some of these sort of subjects. And so I'm just currently working on writing. And I find also London to be a far more inspiring place to write. Nothing happens in London. Los Angeles.

[David Tennant]

Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Literally nothing happens.

[David Tennant]

Except people make things.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah.

[David Tennant]

Make films.

[Jameela Jamil]

Not really.

[David Tennant]

Although they don't make films in la.

[Jameela Jamil]

They don't make films in la. They say to be successful making films. They say to be successful in la, you should never be spending time in la. The sign of success in LA is that you're never there. But listen, it's an amazing place to rest. And it's like a permanent holiday. And it's fun and it's got great food. I had an amazing time there. But I am uninspired. And so I've come home to be with my people.

[David Tennant]

Right.

[Jameela Jamil]

Cause I love England. The other day I was out and I heard some woman behind me just loudly announce to her group that she needed to go back to the hotel before dinner. Cause she needed to wash her fanny before she went back out. And I was like, God, I love it here. I fucking love it here. Gotta wash my fanny before dinner.

[David Tennant]

You don't hear that.

[Jameela Jamil]

I fucking love that.

[David Tennant]

You don't hear that in Beverly Hills that often.

[Jameela Jamil]

No, we're just fun. We're fun. I just walked. I just. Sorry. Drove past a hair salon called Barber Stripe Iceland.

[David Tennant]

Oh, that's excellent. He's on the way here.

[Jameela Jamil]

It's not far from here. That's excellent. And I just fucking love England.

[David Tennant]

Oh, God, I love a pun.

[Jameela Jamil]

I love a pun.

[David Tennant]

Yeah.

[Jameela Jamil]

Barbra Streisand. Are you fucking kidding me?

[David Tennant]

I've worked out my drag name.

[Jameela Jamil]

You drag name?

[David Tennant]

Billie Eilish.

[Jameela Jamil]

Oh, that is fucking fantastic.

[David Tennant]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Jameela Jamil]

That's really good. Billie. Eyelashes. Really excellent.

[David Tennant]

I think. I think that's a perfectly brilliant place to leave it. Thank you for.

[Jameela Jamil]

I've been more intense than I thought I would. I had a coffee just before I came in. I think that's slightly.

[David Tennant]

That and the pills. It's been brilliant.

[Jameela Jamil]

I've just been on a.

[David Tennant]

It's been brilliant. No. And as someone who is very scared of the online space. Cause I don't understand it or go there at all. I very much appreciate you fighting the good fight and seeing the things that you do and changing the world.

[Jameela Jamil]

I don't know if I'll go that far, but I am. You know, I don't want to have children. Children because I can't be asked. So I. I feel like this is how I'll contribute to the world, is make the world safer for my friends.

[David Tennant]

Children and for our children. Yeah, exactly.

[Jameela Jamil]

That's why I'm doing everything is. So that they won't make me godmother. I keep being asked, so I just keep saying no. Saying no, thank you.

[David Tennant]

I know, but read my substack. That'll do it.

[Jameela Jamil]

Yeah, yeah. No, no. I'm healing the world. I'm the godmother of the Internet. You know, I'm busy. So that's it. That's my contribution.

[David Tennant]

Well, we appreciate you. Thank you very much for being here.

[Jameela Jamil]

Thank you. And thanks for also using your platform when you do to try to make this world a bit more tolerant or a bit kinder.

[David Tennant]

I mean, it's just common sense. Isn't.

[Jameela Jamil]

Is. Yeah. But I'm glad that you do it.

[David Tennant]

Thank you.

[Jameela Jamil]

Anyway, let's stop wanking each other off.

[David Tennant]

Now and go freshly wanked cock. David Tennant does a podcast with. He's a Sony Music Entertainment and no Mission Mystery production, produced by Matt Smith. The assistant producer was Rani Prescott. The sound engineer was Gully Tickle. The executive producers are Alex Lawless, Sarah Camlett and Georgia Tennant. Next time. There was a pause and you went, I want a coat down to there. I did. And you pointed at your ankle and I was like, we got him. Your agent would kill us now if we did that.