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- [00:01]
Sponsor Announcer
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- [00:31]
Coy Jondreau
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- [00:32]
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- [00:46]
Coy Jondreau
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- [00:48]
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- [00:51]
Coy Jondreau
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- [00:56]
Sam Ewing
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- [00:57]
Sponsor Announcer
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- [01:02]
Coy Jondreau
Hi, I'm Coy Jondreau and welcome to DC High Volume Batman. In this monthly companion series, we sit down with the cast and crew and beyond for DC High Volume Batman. Where we last left off in the story, we had the paralleling moments between Harvey Dent and our at this point, Captain Gordon, as well as the moment where poison Ivy completely and absolutely corrupts Bruce Wayne. Because no man can resist Poison Ivy. Now, today on this show, I am honored to welcome Captain Gordon himself, Jay Paulson, as well as the composer for DC High Volume Batman, the one and only Sam Ewing. But first, I want to bring out a man who has taught me more about Jim Gordon than I ever knew I didn't know. I'm learning all new things about characters I've loved my whole life. I want to bring out the one and only Jay Pulse. We're sitting down with Jay Paulson. You know him from Mad Men, from Rust Creek, from Catch 22. He is our gym. Not yet. Commissioner Gordon. How are you, man?
- [02:04]
Jay Paulson
I'm doing great, Coy.
- [02:05]
Coy Jondreau
I'm so excited to talk about this character. I was telling you before, this is one of the roles that immediately leapt out to me. It is so iconic, it is so big and robust, but it's also a character that is our eye line. He's the human element in this increasingly larger than life series of characters. I have to know for you, what was your personal entry point into this world and into this character?
- [02:27]
Jay Paulson
Well, my personal entry point was reading the books as a youth.
- [02:31]
Coy Jondreau
Amazing.
- [02:32]
Jay Paulson
And I and I was a huge fan of them, and I loved them. Dark Knight was my Batman growing up in the book. You know, the graphic novels and. And the comics and stuff. That. That was my technical entry. Now, as far as this project, it came about pretty much the way. The way a lot of these sort of do standard my. My people or what have you sort of send over the. The appointment and I. I recorded it. You know, sent. And the positive response. We went and met on a zoom and did more of that.
- [03:02]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah, it's really special because it is a character that people know from the comics and know from all the media that's adapted it. But I feel like Year One is kind of a Gordon story. Like, I've always seen him as the lead of this story, and it's such a powerful performance in there. You've brought something really unique because we don't get to see this Gordon often. Was there anything you wanted to bring to this version you felt like was unique to Year One?
- [03:27]
Jay Paulson
You know, one of the things that happened early on was a little bit of the Chicago accent.
- [03:31]
Coy Jondreau
Sure.
- [03:31]
Jay Paulson
Because having him been from Chicago was important. Seemed to some of the people involved. And I thought that was. It also humanized him. It gave him. It placed him sort of in a world outside of Gotham, too. So I thought that was really cool. You know, again, you talk about his humanity and the fact that he is, you know, coming into this situation with his own set of doubts and concerns and a pregnant wife. And so, you know, there's. There's a lot going on for this guy as. As we find him in the. In the start. But I was blown away myself with how. What a big part he was. I couldn't believe it when I. I started to actually look at the thing. I go, oh, my gosh. Like, I'm in this thing a lot.
- [04:15]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [04:15]
Jay Paulson
You think about Batman. It's Batman's show. And then you're like, this is.
- [04:18]
Coy Jondreau
This is Year One's kind of mine. I think this is.
- [04:21]
Jay Paulson
I don't know about that, but I won't go that far. But you're.
- [04:23]
Coy Jondreau
I'll do it for you. I got it.
- [04:24]
Jay Paulson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [04:25]
Coy Jondreau
You're absolutely right.
- [04:25]
Jay Paulson
I can say I got a lot to say in this thing.
- [04:28]
Coy Jondreau
And it's so powerful because the POV is. Is not just the human element, but arguably the readers. Seeing Batman manifest. Like, we get to experience you discovering this vigilante running around a city. And like you said, you've got so much going on in your own worldview. Has how you see Gordon changed After playing him since you were so familiar as a child?
- [04:48]
Jay Paulson
Absolutely. I mean, seeing him now as an adult, as a grown up, or however you want to put it, you do see him as a grown up, whereas as a youth, I saw him a lot more as an archetype.
- [05:03]
Coy Jondreau
Sure.
- [05:05]
Jay Paulson
The head of police, this associate of Batman in some regard. Whereas coming to him now, you see him as husband, a father, you know, you know, a well rounded human being with his. With all those. With everything that goes along with that.
- [05:22]
Coy Jondreau
It's interesting as you. As you know, anyone ages and these characters that have been around since before we were born, the adults become our peers, and you're uniquely poised to have now embodied one of those. Do you read the comics differently now also having played him? Like, is it not just picking it up like, oh, this guy's my age or older, but it's also like, I've been in his head. I can get this perspective.
- [05:42]
Jay Paulson
Absolutely. I mean, if anything, there's been some. I'll say one of the fun. One of the most fun things about reading it after having played him is. Is like, was I tough enough because he's such a badass in the. In the books, you know, with his stash and his glasses and stuff. And I was like, I didn't wear glasses. I wonder if I'd worn glasses if that would have affected my behavior, my. My voice.
- [06:05]
Coy Jondreau
Could it have?
- [06:06]
Jay Paulson
Maybe. I don't know, you know, can they.
- [06:07]
Coy Jondreau
Hear the lack of glasses?
- [06:09]
Jay Paulson
Could they hear that I was wearing glasses? I don't know. Or the stash, you know, but it's like, so in that sense, that. That was really cool to see him, you know, to want to, you know, bring that badassery to life, as it were.
- [06:20]
Coy Jondreau
In that same vein, he is a more inexperienced Gordon then you usually see him grizzled already as the commissioner. He's got the light and he's on the roof, and you're having to play a very different, less seasoned, but still badass. What levels did you try to find in that? Oh, I know he lands here. And especially in pop culture. How do I find the A to get to the tuv?
- [06:41]
Jay Paulson
I think you just, you. You live into the questions and the problems as they're happening, if that makes any sense. Yeah, you know, this guy's having all of this stuff thrown at him and how he responds to it is what's going to allow him to become that version of himself in the future.
- [06:58]
Coy Jondreau
Was there a freedom in that for you?
- [07:00]
Jay Paulson
Absolutely, yeah. That was one of the real gifts of this was getting to go in sort of in a booth. You're kind of on your own, too, which is a blessing and a curse in a weird way. Now we had everyone behind us was incredible, and the directors knew exactly what they were after and the tone. We all knew what we were shooting for. So in that sense, I felt very well protected and well held, you know, but, yeah, it was very liberating to be able to sort of, you know, go for that a little bit more with a little more trepidation than I might have, feeling like I had to come into it as one that already existed as a Gordon that. That we knew.
- [07:39]
Coy Jondreau
Now, at this point in listening, we are early. Early into long Halloween.
- [07:43]
Jay Paulson
Yeah.
- [07:43]
Coy Jondreau
What's it been like as an actor to know as things develop, certain moments happen, but also need to feel that surprise of certain things happen and also the evolution of the character. But the long Halloween, there's such a mystery element. There's such a journey you have to go on. Is it hard to, like, film out of order and find, like, your way into certain moments and.
- [08:04]
Jay Paulson
Well, one of the true blessings about this process, One of the things that was really pleasurable for myself as more of a film and television actor coming to this in voice, is that we did do it in order to. Oh, we were able to record it more or less in chronological order. Now, I didn't always have everyone with me, you know, in terms of reading with people and that kind of stuff, but that was a gift because we did get to go moment through moment. Now, some of the earlier ones, I want to say, in year one, we did a lot of the internal voice first, and that was really helpful, too, because you get to really get into the mind of Gordon. You got to really be thinking that the way, you know, because so much of it's thought.
- [08:43]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [08:43]
Jay Paulson
And so we. We did all the thoughts, and then we went back and did sort of the. The. The vocal stuff now is a really great process.
- [08:52]
Coy Jondreau
You literally got to get in the head of your character.
- [08:54]
Jay Paulson
Literally. I mean, which is really special. It's what you always shoot for. And here we are doing it.
- [08:59]
Coy Jondreau
You got to do, like, the actor's method. Like, you got to process and then externalize twice, essentially. Yeah. Did you have a different voice as you developed the internal. That you were surprised? The external change? Like, was there an aha moment of, like, I have found Jim. Through the process of finding Jim, I'll.
- [09:15]
Jay Paulson
Say that the internal voice, the thoughtful voice, was so thrown away, as we say, that was like the note Would be throw it away. Throw it away more, throw it away even more. And I'd say, gosh, if I keep throwing this away, what are we gonna have? What are we gonna have here? But sure enough, I thought it actually ended up getting us to a really subtle place.
- [09:35]
Coy Jondreau
That's really interesting because I imagine with like screen based mediums, you've got a different one, the lack of chronology, but you've also got a little less freedom of just consciousness because you're, you know, your face that you're pulling is going to be on camera. Was there any thing you found in doing something in voiceover that you're going to bring to the next project? Because there was a different uniqueness to that freedom?
- [09:56]
Jay Paulson
Absolutely. Well, the thing I was most concerned about with voice was too much, you know, as we got into putting too much on it because it's such a subtle medium and when people are only approaching with their ears, you know, that's every tiny little thing makes a difference. So, yeah, that, that attention to detail blew me away.
- [10:14]
Coy Jondreau
Were there moments on relying? You're talking about the minutia and how, you know, you've got every little bit that we're hearing. But were there moments that influenced how you performed, Gordon, because you knew how small these little changes would be. Like, is there anything you did differently since you knew there wasn't a visual element to your performance that you might have done differently with just voice?
- [10:33]
Jay Paulson
Sure. There was all sorts of sort of like we were interstitial sort of grunts and groans and moans and you could do a lot. You could get a lot with a. Yeah, you know, you really could. So that was, that was definitely something to discover in life.
- [10:48]
Coy Jondreau
I always find there's interesting moments when you're like, oh, this is a new chapter. Like, I've moved. Were there any of those? You're like, this isn't year one anymore.
- [10:56]
Sam Ewing
Yeah.
- [10:56]
Jay Paulson
You know, I think generally, I think we all started to just feel more comfortable with one another. And I know early on you want to. You want to make sure you're doing right by your higher ups. You want to make sure everyone's digging what you're doing and stuff. And then, and then something like this, you start to hit a stride. People seem happy with what's going on, you feeling better about what you're doing. The, you know, the ins and outs are more available to you, you know, at your disposal. So then there does become a little bit more of a freer. I remember, you know, I. We would do smaller, small jokes with one Another by the time we were doing Long Halloween, whereas on year one, I was sort of just here to work and make sure I do this.
- [11:33]
Coy Jondreau
You were going. You were like, this is awesome.
- [11:35]
Jay Paulson
You know? Yeah, we're not effing around here now.
- [11:38]
Coy Jondreau
Now, this character is not only our eyeline, but he's also one of the few people that believes in Batman earlier on than most.
- [11:43]
Jay Paulson
Right.
- [11:43]
Coy Jondreau
He's such a unique position in Gotham because I think without Gordon, the vigilante becomes a pure nuisance. Like, we need Gordon kind of vouching as an audience. How do you personally perceive the Batman as a comic fan, and how do you think Gordon perceives Batman?
- [11:59]
Jay Paulson
Well, as a comic fan, I just love the Batman for what he does, you know, for everything he does and how well he does it.
- [12:05]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [12:05]
Jay Paulson
And I always really appreciated that he was human.
- [12:08]
Coy Jondreau
Sure.
- [12:08]
Jay Paulson
That, to me, was what set him apart from every. So many of the other characters that I was reading or that I was introduced to this. There's no true superpower here. It's a. It's a guy who's working to be his best vigilante self.
- [12:21]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [12:22]
Jay Paulson
You know, and using all of the resources at his disposal to. To come up with that best version. So, you know, that I always really admired as a reader. I think Gordon, at first is a little peeved with the vigilante thing. Right. Because it's like kind of doing my job. Also kind of makes the police look bad. You know, we can't do it on our own, so we need this guy. They're helping us. But of course, you're absolutely right. He does need Batman at the end of the day.
- [12:47]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah. Yeah, I've loved that Gordon, to me, he's been portrayed so differently, so many different ways through so many different mediums, and it feels like there's always a new way to find Gordon. But your take is so specifically 20s. Like, it feels like the 1920s to me in the 2000s. But it's also so new and fresh. Was there any. Other than the Chicago. Was there any slang or intonation or anything that you were looking for to make it specific to a radio drama? Because that, to me, feels so specific to this whole experience.
- [13:19]
Jay Paulson
Sure. Well, first of all, I appreciate it because I think that's a really cool thing that came through. Was that sort of like old, you know, that tone? You know, so much of it was there in the actual dialogue, in the actual words on the page. So whether Frank Miller wrote it with that unconsciously or subconsciously or, you know, it's there. And so we did try to stay true to the word, which I was really. Which I think is really cool. And I was mindful of when we were turning. Trying to. Into China, you know, like, that's not today we say tryna.
- [13:51]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [13:52]
Jay Paulson
But I didn't want Gordon to say, you know, Gordon says trying too.
- [13:56]
Coy Jondreau
Right. Oh, I love that example. That's exactly what I was curious about.
- [13:58]
Jay Paulson
Yeah. That happened on, you know, fairly. Not regularly, but we were cautious to make sure that we weren't sliding, eliding too much.
- [14:05]
Coy Jondreau
Were there moments in the booth that you felt that. That click into someone else? I. I know with acting there are sometimes where I used to act and I remember being like, oh, the character happened. And were there moments that you got to remember yourself as a kid reading Commissioner Gordon, going like, this is an out of body experience. I'm Gordon right now.
- [14:24]
Jay Paulson
There were moments like that that were surreal. Absolutely. Where you're just like, is this happening? And especially later in the sessions, if you've been doing it for two or three hours, you're sort of like, you sometimes can be in altered states, you know, where am I? What's going on? Who am I? You know, we've been doing this a while and. But I would say the other thing that was fascinating was seeing where we overlapped. I'm a proud father of two boys. Shout out to Lee and Val. The stuff with James was very. I remembered being with my son and I was very blessed to take a large role in being a primary caregiver for my children and for helping out my kids. I remember the stuff with James was very personal. So that was really powerful to be able to sort of be in the booth and you're patting your shoulder, but you're imagining your own son, you know, and it's all happening and it's, you know, I do think it brought something to that.
- [15:23]
Coy Jondreau
I love that you bring up the James moment because I have mentioned it and you didn't know this, but I have mentioned it every single time I've recorded talking about this show. The moment of the leap.
- [15:31]
Jay Paulson
Oh, yeah.
- [15:32]
Coy Jondreau
Is to me the thing where I went, oh, no, I have to be a part of this. Like, in some way I must be involved because that to me somehow transcended a comic that I've loved for 30 years.
- [15:42]
Jay Paulson
Right on.
- [15:43]
Coy Jondreau
Like, that is such a special beat.
- [15:44]
Jay Paulson
Well, it's so cool to hear that because I know that's obviously what we wanted. And those are, those are little anxiety making in the booth because you're like, you're literally. You're in thin air. I mean, it's a microphone and you. And, and maybe it's the people on.
- [15:59]
Sam Ewing
Zoom.
- [16:01]
Jay Paulson
And, and, and someone helping you with the sound. And you know, you just, you have to get there. You just have to. And again, you do. You pull out all the tricks of the trade and you pull out all the tools in your toolbox and you just go for it.
- [16:16]
Coy Jondreau
Now I got to experience it completed. I went in and I got to hear it all done. You've been there from the whole journey. How has it been hearing these episodes? Like, you had all imagination for a lot of the score and the sound effects. What's it been like to actually experience the art completed?
- [16:31]
Jay Paulson
Well, for me, it brings it completely to life. That's the most exciting thing, you know, like I. So I did. Let's just say we start with the subway scene, you know, and I did. And I'd been doing the subway scene for the audition and I did the subway scene for the callback and I did the subway scene in the booths.
- [16:45]
Coy Jondreau
Sure.
- [16:46]
Jay Paulson
Twice, sometimes. Or we did pickups on the subway scene. And it's always been just me in the subway. And then to hear it with people grumbling, people reading their newspaper, people bumping into one another. I mean, it really does just enrich it. It just really brings it to life and it's so exciting. But I will say, when I first listened to it, I thought, that sounds like me. That's funny. I thought it would sound like. I don't know who. I thought it would sound like you.
- [17:16]
Coy Jondreau
Had an out of body experience later.
- [17:17]
Jay Paulson
Where you're like, literally. No, no, that's me. I'm on this thing.
- [17:21]
Coy Jondreau
Oh, Jay.
- [17:22]
Jay Paulson
Paul. What a concept, huh? Yeah.
- [17:25]
Coy Jondreau
So I love that. For me, it is like being on a set. You've got, you know, this visual experience, or maybe you're using a green screen, or maybe you've got a blue screen, but you've still got some visual cues. But for you, you're in a booth, you've got nothing except for the imagination. And to me, that's the experience of listening to it is. I'm having mind's eye visuals of sometimes the artist, but sometimes my own imagination. Are there things that you visualize differently when you're in the booth than when you listen? Do you have any like sense memory from like. Oh, right, that happened.
- [17:55]
Jay Paulson
There were times in the booth when we pretended to smoke.
- [17:57]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [17:58]
Jay Paulson
You know, because that does shape your behavior. It shapes where you breathe in a line. It shapes how you deliver a line. If you. If, you know, you're inhaling at this point, you know, you can't finish a line at this, et cetera. You know, there were moments when you'd pull a gun and you'd want to. You know, you'd want to have something. Have something to go with there. Then there's the more comical stuff where you're beating yourself up in a booth by throwing yourself on a wall and then on the other wall and hoping that it sounds like someone getting pummeled, you know, and then, you know, then the more intimate moments where they might ask, how about kissing your hand? You know, when. When you go to kiss Essen and say, listen, let's go for it.
- [18:42]
Coy Jondreau
Let's act.
- [18:43]
Jay Paulson
What can we do? Let's see how it goes, you know.
- [18:46]
Coy Jondreau
Now, I love that this will be some people's first Commissioner Gordon. I love that. That is a new take that is from such a classic story. What if we're looking at gesture one before we get to Long Halloween? What would you love, new listeners, to take away from your gym?
- [19:03]
Jay Paulson
He's. He has his faults, but he's all. But he's got his. His code that he does live by. When he makes a mistake, he owns up to it. You know, he faces the music. He. You know, he does have that. That sense of right and wrong. And even when he. Even when he speaks to them and says, we can bend these things a little bit, but we can't break them, or else we're just as bad as they are, you know, And I do think that's his. That's his sort of heart and his psyche speaking his truth.
- [19:36]
Coy Jondreau
I've always had this theory, and you would have a very strong perspective, having embodied this man. To me, the thing that bonds Batman and Jim is that Batman has a code. And in my opinion, Batman doesn't kill. But I also love that that is mirrored in Commissioner Gordon with his fellow cops. And that bond of that one rule is what I always saw. And that's why the rooftop between Harvey Dent, Jim Gordon and Batman means so much to me, because that represents three men with a code, and they all kind of see each other in that way. Was that something you really wanted to establish from the beginning of that. That hard line he has that way as things get messier, you know what to fall back on?
- [20:09]
Jay Paulson
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we knew that that was his. Like, we were using the word code. But, yes, that was his. His center point, you know, and that was what they had all agreed on, you know, when they had that when they have the meeting and this is how things are going to go. And then you're right. How. How much do we bend them? How far do we bend before it breaks?
- [20:27]
Coy Jondreau
Now we've talked a lot of DC high volume. I got to talk about the comics themselves. I'm such a comic book nerd.
- [20:33]
Jay Paulson
Yeah.
- [20:33]
Coy Jondreau
What did you. Growing up about Batman that you still love? And is there anything that is different now, having played someone in the world?
- [20:41]
Jay Paulson
Oh, the actual experience of reading.
- [20:43]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah, like, well, the art form and.
- [20:44]
Jay Paulson
Yeah, I mean, the artwork was insane. I. I mean, that's iconic. That bat, that pose he does with the lightning. Just like. Yeah. I mean, so that was, you know, as a young reader, that art was captivating, Absolutely captivating. And the way he could tell that story from frame to frame with those characters and that. That line, his line was really incredible.
- [21:09]
Coy Jondreau
So one of the craziest facts for me as a fan of this, one of the things that I was like, there's no way, like, in the IMDb trivia of my mind, I heard that this is your first voiceover work of something like this, and you kept up with some, like, seasoned vets, and you're a seasoned vet in other mediums. But what was it like and how is it possible this is your first voiceover works? It's insane.
- [21:28]
Jay Paulson
It was incredible. And I felt like I'd been knocking on the voiceover door for a while, and finally someone answered. So that was really. And not just anybody answered. You know, I mean, it was really an amazing. An amazing opportunity, and it was great to learn on the fly. You know, I have a bunch of friends in the business who've been doing voice for a long time, and I would say, so what. Do you have any tips for me in this ad, or what do you think I should do here? But in general, everyone who was behind the scenes knew exactly sort of the tone they wanted and what they wanted out of it. Then it really took. It really did feel organic. I felt so supported. I felt like everyone was. Was there to sort of help me do my best, and I just did. I did my thing. And as long as people kept coming back like, this is going well, this is going well, I thought, all right, I guess it's going well.
- [22:15]
Coy Jondreau
You know, there's not a note of novice in it. Was there any moment where it felt different not having everyone around you because you're traditionally on, like, a set? Like, was there anything you had to kind of reprogram?
- [22:24]
Jay Paulson
There's always times when you wish you'd had someone to bounce it off of. And a lot of the heavier scenes. I was very grateful to have directors, people who would read. Read the person opposite. And that's always helpful, I think, just in terms of what we were talking about earlier, catching your breath and recognizing where you would interrupt someone, this kind of thing. But, you know, I read to my boys. I read books to my boys until they were. Until they were about 15 years old. And maybe that has something to do with it, but I loved bringing them all to life. So, you know, maybe that had something to do with it.
- [22:57]
Coy Jondreau
That is great. Jim Gordon training like that of any character. I'm like, of course that would actually help.
- [23:01]
Jay Paulson
Yeah, yeah. But it was an amazing opportunity, and it was really interesting to learn the differences, specifically with how subtle. I couldn't believe, as I mentioned earlier, Coy, that you can just toss it, toss it, toss it. No mustard on it. I'm an actor who. I'm a character actor. I'm an actor who loves character. I love to build the character. I love to throw stuff. Obviously, we talked about the accent.
- [23:25]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [23:26]
Jay Paulson
You know, I'm that kind of actor who wants to make a bold choice and put my shoulder behind it. And I believe that ends up with usually a more dynamic performance, something that's more delightful to the audience. And in this instance, I think it was really interesting how much you can take away and still come up with this richness and this dynamic performance.
- [23:47]
Coy Jondreau
Well, you feel the layers. Absolutely. So I'm fascinated by that process.
- [23:50]
Jay Paulson
I so appreciate it. Again, my gratitude to everyone behind it. The directors and the writers are obviously. And the production. I mean, it was really a team effort. And I was just so grateful to feel like we were all in there with the same goal in mind, Wanting to make the best Batman ever, you know?
- [24:07]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah. And it's one of my favorite adaptations of all time.
- [24:09]
Jay Paulson
Wow. So cool. Coy. Thanks, man.
- [24:11]
Coy Jondreau
So where we are in the story right now, we have this moment where we have Dent and you approaching Bruce Wayne, and we're starting to see trust kind of deteriorate. There's high stakes, high tension, high mystery. Can you tease anything for folks about where we're about to go next?
- [24:25]
Jay Paulson
Well, I think at this point, like you said, some of the trust is eroding. And I'm not sure Gordon knows exactly where he is in terms of his relationship with the Batman. And if it's possible that Bruce Wayne might be involved in this, what does that portend for the future?
- [24:42]
Coy Jondreau
I really love that there are people listening to this. That haven't read the Long Halloween that are getting the mystery unfurling in this way. That feels so. Classic mystery novel.
- [24:50]
Jay Paulson
Sure.
- [24:51]
Coy Jondreau
And it's so interesting to me to play a character that is part of the mystery. Was it fun to have that like Agatha Christie who done element as part.
- [24:59]
Jay Paulson
Of the character especially like we talked about, especially recording in order.
- [25:02]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [25:03]
Jay Paulson
You really see the. The. The chips fall as they do. You know what I mean? Like, one at a time. You're chasing this lead. Nope. You're chasing that lead. Nope. Did he really believe it was that lead? Nah, I guess so. You know, it's like that was fascinating to see, you know, all those different degrees of. Of the hunt, the chase and. Yeah. Then solving the mystery.
- [25:24]
Coy Jondreau
As you said, devouring it is such a different animal than living it. Like I. This comic is not one I could like month to month. I was lucky enough to be. It came out when it was completed, so I just poured through.
- [25:33]
Jay Paulson
Yeah, for sure.
- [25:34]
Coy Jondreau
It must have been interesting to have the element of time between recordings and to live in those beats and have all that as it fell apart a little bit.
- [25:41]
Jay Paulson
Yeah. But I just think you've hit on something that's to me the most exciting thing about the whole thing, which is the idea of reading the whole thing while you listen.
- [25:47]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [25:48]
Jay Paulson
You know, to me, that's. That was what we were doing. That was. That was really different. Different.
- [25:53]
Coy Jondreau
Did you use the frames as like storyboards for your work?
- [25:56]
Jay Paulson
Absolutely. We would do them. We would. I would do them the night before we. We worked. I would refresh on where we were in the story and. And use the visuals to help. And then it was very often it would help in recording to bring it up and for everyone to remember. Okay, this is where we were at this point. This is what the frame is. This is, you know, this is what Frank put here.
- [26:17]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [26:18]
Jay Paulson
So, you know, that definitely brought it to life. It was really cool to have that as sort of like a background inspiration.
- [26:24]
Coy Jondreau
So I've listened to this three ways, and I love talking to people about their experience of absorbing it. I listen to it as I'm multitasking, like driving or doing something active, because I think you use a different part of your brain for that. I also love listening to it. I've got these crazy kef speakers that are floor standards that I just position myself like that. Hi Fi. Ad. What was it? Maxell? Just like listening to high volume. And then I also love doing the multitasking of either a physical comic or using DC Universe. Infinite and listening and going through. Do you have a listening favorite?
- [26:52]
Jay Paulson
I love the imagery with the sound.
- [26:55]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [26:55]
Jay Paulson
I think it's really amazing to watch the thoughts and the words come into my ears as my eyes go over them. Something really special there.
- [27:03]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah, I love that. There's so much versatility with this work.
- [27:06]
Jay Paulson
Oh, I do too.
- [27:07]
Coy Jondreau
And a testament to your work, man. It really is something special.
- [27:09]
Jay Paulson
It means so much to me, Coy. It was a true honor, you know, I mean, when it finally comes together and you're like, this is happening, you really do feel in a very real way welcomed into a pantheon. And it just feels like, what a gift. And the fact that everyone was willing to allow me to put some personal stuff in to allow me to work with it the way I wanted. And I felt just so great. So well supported.
- [27:35]
Coy Jondreau
Thank you, man. I really, like I said, I love this character. That moment on the leap that clearly meant so much to you as well, is something that I will always have. Is like, this is brand new and something I could recite, but I get to have it a new way. So thank you so much for that work.
- [27:48]
Jay Paulson
It means so much to me. Coy, thanks for having me.
- [27:49]
Coy Jondreau
Absolutely. Thank you.
- [28:03]
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- [30:11]
Coy Jondreau
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more. Love talking to Jay Paulson. His raw emotionality is so apparent in all this work. I really love his connection to Jim Gordon and especially his note about his kids and how you could feel that with Jim Gordon and his kid in year one. That really meant a lot to me. Speaking of a man who understands emotionality, who brings so much emotion to these characters, we've got Sam Ewing, the composer for all things DC High Volume. Let's bring out Sam. We are sitting down with Sam Ewing. You've heard his music on the Walking Dead on God of War Ragnarok. He is the composer on D.C. high volume Batman. How you doing, man?
- [31:22]
Sam Ewing
I'm good. This is awesome. Thanks for having me.
- [31:25]
Coy Jondreau
DC High Volume Batman has this incredible audio force to it and I, and I have to imagine. When you find out you're doing something like Batman, what's your first thought? Making a story set in Gotham and the greater world of Batman.
- [31:38]
Sam Ewing
I frankly never imagined I would I would ever get such a chance. So weirdly I felt like super prepared to take it on because I think there's like zero fear, you know, because it's like. You're kidding me. All right, well, let's go.
- [31:57]
Jay Paulson
Let's do it.
- [31:58]
Sam Ewing
You know what I particularly find exciting about the audio version of it is that it naturally just puts some emphasis on music. Right. Because there aren't that many elements. There's voice, there's sound design, and then there's music. Yeah, it's just, it's just so. It's so freaking cool.
- [32:18]
Coy Jondreau
So coming in and getting the ground floor approach like, you get to build the foundation, especially because, as you're saying, the music gets to be such a focal point of the experience.
- [32:26]
Sam Ewing
Yeah.
- [32:27]
Coy Jondreau
Were there core ideas or references that you knew day one and were there any that developed over time?
- [32:33]
Sam Ewing
There. There was so much discussion how. How we approach this, just, like, musically, sonically, and I think ultimately, like, the. The visuals are what never failed us. And there's an. Undoubtedly, the word I would use is gothic quality to the visuals in the comics and just associated with Batman in general. Right. And the word gothic tends to have certain associations with it musically. I think of first of all, like, literal gothic cathedral is like an easy, you know, lateral move. Lots of space, lots of reverb, maybe choirs and big instrumentation, orchestra. You really want it to feel like larger than life and sort of exaggerated in that way. And also, I would say just dark and at times sad. Other times, obviously heroic. Other times just grimy, you know, grimy and grungy.
- [33:49]
Coy Jondreau
There's a scale and a scope that is implied in gothic, and that's interesting. Like, Batman also has that. The gravitas of Batman feels like a church.
- [33:56]
Sam Ewing
Yeah, it totally. Yeah, that's a good point.
- [33:59]
Coy Jondreau
And I hear that. And I also love that his characters feel like an orchestra. Like, when you've got certain Batman characters. I've always loved the psychology of Batman. To me, feeling mirrored in his rogues. And to me, there are the goals of his villains mirroring who he'd be if he was a lesser man. So to me, like, you know, if he'd gotten to politics, 2face, if he'd gone to more of, like, the fun side. Catwoman, they all that to them. Yeah. But to me, the way you play these themes is that with the orchestra. So I'm wondering if there are certain characters you knew right away. Strings, brass. Like, were there characters, like. I think they sound like this.
- [34:34]
Sam Ewing
Oh, man, it's so funny. The short answer is yes, but I. You know, these are things that sort of like. It's like an instant reach for certain colors. In other words, it's less complicated than you might think. Batman, Bruce Wayne, he's got gravitas.
- [34:58]
Jay Paulson
He's.
- [34:59]
Sam Ewing
There's. There, you know, lives in a big mansion. Like, he's. He's heroic, but he's dark. So we need, like, dark, big orchestral instrumentation with some choir to support him. Bang. There's your theme right next, Catwoman. She's in the shadows and. And spying and kind of tiptoeing. And she's graceful and she's sex and she's she's mischievous. And. And so you have something lighter that lives up in terms of instrumentation is just higher. Right. You've got twinkling harp that's kind of prowling around on the rooftops. You've got strings playing harmonics, and they're like, absolute highest register playing this sort of slow, kind of crawling melody, you know? And it's just like, literally, if you're like a child and like, you're. You're asked to describe, like, a cat, you just take those descriptions and, like, apply them to music and to instrumentation, and you've got your themes and it's. It's really like. It's the shortest distance between the two possible. That. That is usually the answer. You know what I mean?
- [36:14]
Coy Jondreau
You want it to be linear, so it is an immediate connotation. Like, you're like, oh, that does sound, like, blank.
- [36:19]
Sam Ewing
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And Pete, the audience is pick up on that, even if they're not. They can't describe it. And it's. Music is often so not in the foreground. It's setting the stage. It's bringing the atmosphere for something.
- [36:35]
Coy Jondreau
Did any theme or motif change or surprise you because you realized it actually felt more like another character? Like one that wasn't as linear, one that wasn't as direct. But say you're working on, like, a character, you know, going through infidelity, and you're like, oh, that doesn't quite sound mischievous enough, but I might be able to save that for another thing.
- [36:52]
Sam Ewing
Yeah.
- [36:53]
Coy Jondreau
Was there anyone that got, like, shifted?
- [36:55]
Sam Ewing
Yeah, definitely. I had written a track for a theme for Catwoman, and it was with these sort of mischievous bells and these very unsettling little strings that kind of, like, sit as a bed. And somehow someone on the team was like, joker. And I was like, oh, my God, Like, I didn't even think of that. So cool.
- [37:24]
Coy Jondreau
That's so fun. Because of the Joker's inherent nature to just, like, impulsively intrude in story. Yeah, I like that the Joker theme also happened at you.
- [37:32]
Sam Ewing
I know.
- [37:33]
Coy Jondreau
Like, the Joker does.
- [37:34]
Sam Ewing
It's. That's. That's a good point.
- [37:36]
Coy Jondreau
That's really fun. I like that.
- [37:37]
Sam Ewing
I know, I know. And sometimes when you're just. There's this, like, zone you enter when you're inspired by an idea that you get, and you have a vague idea that, okay, yes, like, this. This will be. This will be Catwoman's thing. But, like, it enters your brain and you just gotta, like, get it out of you and, like, out of your fingers.
- [37:57]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah.
- [37:58]
Sam Ewing
Like, onto the keyboard, and then, like. And then you've built your track and you've composed your thing, and it happens extremely quick because it's. You've just got this burst. Right. So I knew, like, this is cool. Like, I really like this. And I'm let. This feels to me like Catwoman. And then it's. It took the observation and discussion with other people on the team to realize this would work so well for the Joker. But that's what's cool, too, about collaborating and working with other people who can help you see things with a little more distance and clarity.
- [38:33]
Coy Jondreau
I liked. You had to externalize it and then get another perspective to see what it was actually gonna end up being. That's really unique. That's a lot of fun.
- [38:39]
Sam Ewing
I know.
- [38:40]
Coy Jondreau
Now, this is a really unique medium that is. You mentioned earlier how sometimes in projects, music tends to feel like it's going to drift to the background or it can't be in the foreground. And this is so foreground. So music forward, which I love. Like, the soundscape here, the. The musical soundscape versus the production design versus the voice work. Like, all of them are the leads. Was there anything in this medium that you found challenging because you became a leading part of the front of the experience?
- [39:08]
Sam Ewing
I would say yes. I might say that the medium itself, like any medium, has a particular set of challenges that sometimes are tied to clarity for the audience. Personally, I would put a big emphasis on that one for this because, let's be honest, a lot of people who are listening to this are, like, cooking pasta or, like, driving to work. There's a lot there. Or, like, optimal situation is, like, you're sitting in your, like, you know, $10,000 speaker, like, studio, where there's, like, no external noise and your eyes are closed. But, like, very few people are doing that. So I wanted immediately to make just clear when certain characters enter the scene and we don't have those frames, which are so gorgeous. And I'm hoping a lot of people will read along and look at these comics, which are so well adapted to the audio, because that just enriches the experience. But without that, it's important to me that the music can cue what is happening and what characters are entering into those frames. It can be. Even if it's not confusing, it's just. It's just supportive and it's. And this is what I find really exciting about this particular show is that the themes, they're just. There's. There are a lot of themes, and it's a super Fun playground to use those and use motifs. And sometimes it's just like someone is referenced by Bruce or by Catwoman and we hear a little. We hear a couple notes, and that just clues the audience in, you know, or at the end of an episode, maybe the person being looked at who in the frame of the comic might be, like a silhouetted figure who has no dialogue, like, that's the ending of the visual. But in this medium, we don't get that dialog, less visual. So I will give you their theme instead. And it tells you who it might be and is so suggestive, you know, in a way that the visuals can also be.
- [41:45]
Coy Jondreau
And that's super cinematic like that. There's so much scope. Again, the grandiose, like Batman. There's so much energy big there. So I went through this each issue of Year one a different way because I wanted to experiment. So, sure, I listened to it with like 4 foot kef speakers and then I dove in, which I loved. That was it. That was a thing, man. As a vinyl head, I was like, what is this gonna do? And then I sat down in my car because I wanted to see what it was like with, like, different audio arrangement. And then I sat down with some nice Harman Kardon headphones. And then the last time I did it with the pages. So issue four for me was really cool because that was the first time I added the visual and the entire motorcycle SE sequence, which I could. I could describe from memory.
- [42:26]
Sam Ewing
Right.
- [42:26]
Coy Jondreau
Was new again.
- [42:27]
Sam Ewing
Wow.
- [42:28]
Coy Jondreau
And so for me, it is a. A repeat viewing experience. But I'd love to know for you, is there a moment? For me, it's the motorcycle. Me going like, this is a gift because I got to relive my childhood.
- [42:39]
Sam Ewing
Yeah.
- [42:40]
Coy Jondreau
Is there a moment or scene for you as the person on the other side of that creative process that really stood out as, like, eureka. This is the. The strength of this medium, man.
- [42:50]
Sam Ewing
I feel like I have so many examples. But just like just thinking about the end of episode one, when Bruce becomes the Bat, right? That is. I mean, visually, it's so iconic. And there are so many reasons that scene, if you're reading it, is standout. It's iconic. Bruce Wayne is becoming Batman, right? And he's going. And it just so beautifully ties in the tragedy of his parents and into this, like, newfound sort of triumph, if you will. And, yeah, like, how do you take that on musically? You know, what the heck? Like, how can we not step on this, but also, like, make it even more enriched and, like, add a musical theme to it. So that's what I've done. And we've got a musical. We've got a musical theme for sure. And it's along the same lines. It's got this tragic, gothic, almost classical quality to it and a female voice, which I like to think is like the voice of his mother. Right, so another simple, just very direct pull right there. Just instrumentally, just mother. How about female vocal? Very, very straightforward. But you know, I mean, the fans will have to let us know, you know, did I do it justice? But I think that's just an example where, I mean, it's just like an honor to score a scene like that, you know, and it's just like, it's honestly, you said cinematic. It's just like scoring a movie or, you know, the end of a, like finale of a TV show or something.
- [44:41]
Coy Jondreau
It's so interesting how flippantly you're like, you know, you just do this and this. And in my head I'm like, I can't even read music, man. Like, I love that you're just like. And then you just make it big. And I'm like, I can't even. I like listening to music because it's alchemy to me. Like, it doesn't even make sense.
- [44:55]
Sam Ewing
And I so appreciate that because that for me it's really job security, you know, because truly, I'll say it again, like, I bet if you were like you asked a five year old, like stand at a piano and like, like play good guy music, they would like, they twinkle around with like the upper p. The upper keys, where it's like, you know, and then like play the bad guy, you play the low keys and like, there you go.
- [45:19]
Coy Jondreau
But as we get older, we get self conscious and we wouldn't be able to do that. And music, you stay in that childlike wonder and you can make art from knowing that instinct.
- [45:28]
Sam Ewing
That's true.
- [45:29]
Coy Jondreau
As someone that reads comics, I got the childlike wonder of the storytelling. But I go, I scare piano. So thank you. Now, year one and long Halloween, they mean the world to me. And I can hear now new elements because of them, because of what you've done. Were there any other comics that influenced your take on Batman that you think helped inform the overall zeitgeist of Batman, bringing that to these stories?
- [45:55]
Sam Ewing
Well, to, again, I'm a big cinema guy, right? So maybe to sort of give you a slightly left of field answer again, the moods like set. And that's, I think maybe the word that's important here is like the Mood and, like, the atmosphere that I think Christopher Nolan did so well. It's one of the strongest takes on Batman in a. Linear, like, like audio or visually form. Right. So. And one of the things that. That he's just done so well is just create this sense of motion and, like, driving forward and sort of gluing together scenes. And that was critical in. In the. The opening episodes because we've got these intertwined stories that are intercutting. I mean, you might remember better than I, but it's like every page or two.
- [46:59]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah, it's rapid and it's dense.
- [47:02]
Sam Ewing
It's super dense. And you're cutting between Jim Gordon and Bruce Wayne. And this is before either of them are like, heroes yet. And like, how do you treat. That's. I mean, the challenge there is immense from an audio perspective. Cause we're just getting to learn these characters and we're establishing the world of Gotham. But we've also, musically, we want to present something that's cohesive and not just, like, annoying and, like, jittery. Right. So there's something to be said about Christopher Nolan's approach, which is just like. Well, don't make them separate stories with, like, we got Jim Gordon. Oh, we got Bruce Wayne. But just. Just like, this is the story of Batman year one, man. Like, it's coming together and just like, go along the ride with us, you know, and. And, like, and we'll help transitions out, but we won't slam the listener over the face every time. There's like a page turn. Right. It's just. It's too much. So there's something to be said for that. And so, yeah, that.
- [48:10]
Coy Jondreau
Anyway, no, it totally answers my question. And I never would have considered the. It can't be cacophonous. Like, you can't have those things conflict. And in a comic, you don't have that concern because you're controlling the pace. I can say when I turn the page. Whereas you don't have the option of that. Which is interesting now, in this experience, it's a series of voice actor, sound, design score. We've talked about all those elements, but this is so collaborative, you know, working with dc, working with Realm, working with these different teams.
- [48:37]
Sam Ewing
Right.
- [48:38]
Coy Jondreau
Can you tell me about any moment where the collaborative nature inspired something that you might not have expected? Like where a note or something came in and you're like, oh, well, that recontextualizes this.
- [48:47]
Sam Ewing
Well, the theme for that I had written for Catwoman, that later became the Joker is a prime example.
- [48:55]
Coy Jondreau
Yeah, that's Pretty perfect.
- [48:57]
Sam Ewing
That's a perfect example of just this collaboration that is like, you know, and I would say a necessary one where as I was describing, a lot of times the composer is just simply too close to the material. Especially early on, when a composer comes onto a project, you entrench yourself and you live in that world and you're just like, you're trying and using a ton of effort, I would say, to just unearth these musical versions of these ideas and these themes and get them to life. And then once they get going, it really sort of. There's a rhythm and the effort becomes less strenuous and you really find a stride. And my point is that in those early iterations, the collaboration is so important because someone you're entrenched, you just don't have the perspective. So early on I was entrenched with Marcus Begala, who was helping. We were both composing themes together and we were just doing, we were doing a lot of back and forth. He was the one who was like, dude, like, I don't know, man, but I feel like this Catwoman thing you just wrote could be sick for the Joker. And I was like, whoa, okay, sweet. So that's where the seed was kind of planted. So, yeah, like those collaborations, they're so key.
- [50:29]
Coy Jondreau
And last question for you before we wrap out because I, in dealing with comics, often get to have that unique perspective of Easter eggs and looking closely for comic moments in other mediums. But uniquely with this, there's auditory cues and moments and I don't often get to celebrate audio Easter eggs. So for people that want to listen more closely or want to be slightly ahead of things, there anything you can tease in what we've had so far with year one, what we have upcoming, whether it's the beginning, middle or end of Long Halloween, are there any Easter eggs or things to listen for more attendance?
- [51:02]
Sam Ewing
Oh, that's a, that's a really good question. There are little Easter eggs for sure. I would say in Long Halloween, as we get to the holiday killer, just, just become familiar with these two little sort of off kilter piano notes and the little bed that lives underneath it. I think it's gonna, as I had mentioned earlier in the comics, sometimes you have these frames where there is no dialogue. This is a thing that just. It becomes sort of a chameleon and it's a really fun thing to play with and sort of, you know, I wonder if this character is the killer. I wonder if that character is a killer. So we get to have a lot of fun with that. So I'll just, I'll say that that.
- [51:57]
Coy Jondreau
Is a very fun use of mystery in the medium. I'm so excited to hear it myself. I haven't yet. Very excited. Thank you for your work, man. I can tell you love these characters like I do and you use your alchemy for them, so I appreciate it.
- [52:07]
Sam Ewing
Yeah, man. Pleasure's all mine. Thanks.
- [52:11]
Coy Jondreau
I would like to thank Jay Paulson and Sam Ewing for joining me today. Two passionate, absolute powerhouse creators. I love the emotionality and heart they bring to this work. I would also like to thank you, dear viewer, for watching this show. It means the world to me. You're joining me for interviews with all these talented folk responsible for DC High volume Batman. I, while talking about all of these comics, want to recommend you some comics directly. First up, the Long Halloween has a sequel that is coming out monthly right now. Batman the Long Halloween, the Last Halloween is honoring Tim Sale, the artist behind the Long Halloween, who we lost very, very suddenly a couple years ago. And it's an artist I love very dearly. And the comic almost never existed. Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale had conceived it and instead of letting it sit in a shelf, a number of artists have picked up, each individually doing an issue to honor Tim Sale. We just had issue seven come out. That is Dave Johnson and Dave Stewart. And it's just so special to, to do a comic in this way. And it's also fantastic. Fantastic. And if you're loving Long Halloween, I highly recommend you check out Batman the Long Halloween, the Last Halloween. Also want to recommend to you Batman Hush. To me, this is a beautiful comic that's in the vein of Long Halloween. It's like a, not a spiritual sequel, but something in that direction where you get the mystery, you get the intrigue, you get the whodunit, but with Jim Lee on art and that is such a good time. Always highly recommend Hush. It is such a great book which also right now coincidentally has a sequel currently coming out monthly, Batman Hush 2. And you, dear viewer, can check out any of those at your local comic shop, as well as on the DC Universe Infinite app, which is DC's online comic catalog. There are tens of thousands of comics available there and if you ever want more recommendations, you can hunt me down on social media. I'm @coyjondreau on Instagram and YouTube and at far too many cons, always ask me comment questions. I'd love to give you recommendations. And once again, in case you don't know how much I appreciate you. Thank you for watching the show, it truly means the world. Go read some comics. Go listen to some high volume. We'll see you next time. Thank you for joining us on this special episode of DC High Volume, Batman executive producers for Realm, Carly Miliori and Ron Singh Sambi executive producers for DC Mike Palata and Victor Diaz producer Adam Boffa technical director Insung Huang engineers Jason Gambrell and Echo Mountain hosted by me, Coy Jondreau. Special thanks to Fred Greenhalgh, Kalyn West, Olivia Darienzo, Sam Ewing and to comic books for existing.