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- [00:01]
Alice
So good, so good, so good.
- [00:03]
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- [00:27]
Alice
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Dear Alice. Today we are doing a really fun episode. I'm super excited. But I wanted to say first, if you're new here, I want to tell you a little bit about us. We are Alice Lane. We're the designers and interior architects behind Alice Lane Interior Design. And we've been working for 20 years now designing custom homes, doing remodels, working on interiors, and we do exteriors as well. And we just wanted to have a place where we share all the design principles and mistakes, insider knowledge that we use every day with our own clients and pay this information forward. So we decided to start a little podcast about six or seven years ago called Dear Alice. And we're glad that you found us. Today's episode is going to be a really fun one. Do you want to tell them about it, Corey?
- [01:11]
Corey
Yeah. So back in May, we recorded an episode called what It Takes to be an Interior Designer. From that, we got a question from @k Taylor7901 and she asked, how should a consumer interview and select the right interior designer for their home project? So today we're going to go dive into six key points that you should know if you're looking for an interior designer.
- [01:32]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
This is such a great question.
- [01:33]
Alice
I think so.
- [01:34]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Such a great question. And that was a fun episode to record in the first place. We get that question all the time of people that want to become interior designers. So we've gotten so much feedback and great as far as reviews and celebration from the episode, just because there are so many of you that want to enter this field. But I love that we got the question of just like, how do you hire a designer? It is such a big leap of faith and to really understand what are you looking for, what are your red flags? That's what we get to go into today. So I am so excited.
- [02:05]
Alice
I'm excited too.
- [02:06]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
So thanks for the question.
- [02:07]
Alice
It's a really good one. And I first wanted to say, how do you know when you're ready for an interior designer? And I think one of the first things is you have to be ready to implement the design. So maybe you're at the beginning of a new build or a remodel. You've got a contractor, you've got budgets that you and your husband have agreed on or your partner. And you're really ready to move this thing forward. I think that's a really good time that you need a designer because you're ready to move it forward. We've had a couple instances even lately on some projects where the client isn't really ready to move it forward. And so they don't have to make decisions and so they sit in indecision for a really, really long time.
- [02:47]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
And.
- [02:47]
Alice
And it's really unproductive and it's really, really costly.
- [02:50]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
I will say it's frustrating for the client. Also, they don't know exactly like what they want. So I think that there is a great deal to get to that point. When you're ready to implement the design and things that you have to do, what is it that you want? Even if it's a feeling, these are the feelings that I want this to be and I'm ready to pull the trigger. And all people in my decision party are also ready. So that I think that's the biggest thing when you give yourself too many options. So start to narrow those down and be like, this is gonna be the project, not this house. But I'm not gonna work on 10 houses at the same time. I'm gonna work on this house and I'm ready to go. And I want you to be part of the team. Let's go. That's when it's successful for all parties.
- [03:28]
Alice
We have another one where she's been working on house plans for years. Spent a half a million dollars on plans only to decide that maybe they just don't wanna build the house.
- [03:39]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah.
- [03:40]
Alice
And so I, I just wanted to say that because you can waste a ton of time, a lot of meetings, go all the way through this thing and spend your fortune just creating plans, only to not be in the mood to do it. And then they just decided to buy another lot instead and scrap the plans. Or maybe we'll just stay where we're at. So it is really good to know that you're ready to move forward with it before you invest in, in hiring all of the professionals to come together
- [04:06]
Corey
wearing a client hat. It's the best way to like, get a budget. So like, let's say I'm going to start building a home and I have X amount of dollars and this is the home I want. Guarantee there's a people out there that don't know what design services Cost.
- [04:18]
Alice
Yeah.
- [04:19]
Corey
So what's like the best way to investigate that? I think there's probably some people too that are a little bit gun shy. So they're like, I don't even know where to start or even who to ask. So I'm just not going to. And I'm just going to hire a builder.
- [04:30]
Alice
And of all of the people that you're going to hire to do it, between the architect, the builder and the designer. And there's probably going to be a landscape architect in there too. Right. But between those three, the big three, the designer, the builder and the architect, the designer is the most affordable amongst them all. So the biggest price tag is going to come, I believe, with the builder and the architect. How are you going to be able to figure out what it costs? I think you're going to sit down with the designer. In our firm, we're going to drop a design scope and we're going to get that from the floor plan. So you will have already met with your architect and I would imagine that as the client, you're probably also interviewing builders and just trying to get their idea of what it's going to cost to build this home. Right. So you're going to get a pretty good number from the builder of what it costs. You've already paid your architect and now you're going to sit down with an interior designer to understand what their fees would be for the whole home. You're going to get their scope and then you're going to get an idea. Obviously, landscapes today, obviously on dream projects, which is what we work on. Those landscapes can be a million dollars.
- [05:30]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah, millions.
- [05:32]
Alice
Millions of dollars. It depends on like the acreage that they have. But they're very, very well considered. There's, you know, sometimes pools and fountains and garden walls and, you know, things like that involved a lot of hardscaping. So that's a big number two that you want to get in the pie as you're considering all things. So I would say working with a really reputable firm that can give you a good scope of what that's going to take to really flush out the entire thing through installation. Your best firms are going to be able to give you a good number
- [06:00]
Corey
and maybe even like involve the designer simultaneously with the architect or before. So yeah. Cause I think honestly that's where you guys like shine. You guys have so many good tips and like how to make a space work for the person living in it.
- [06:14]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
I love that you said that. Cause especially if you're doing like a new build this is a massive, massive investment. Right when you start to court the architect and you're trying to figure out who you want to be your designer. Figuring that out, your dream team is like your first thing when you're ready to go. Figure out who all the parties are before plans start. Because you can have the influence of the landscape architect where the actual lot should be positioned. You can have the influence of the designer with the architect on the functionalities of the space, even that high level design, because then they can start feeding if you have a good team and they can work well together and they can represent you as the client. Having that trifecta of all those decision makers on the same page, they might not be as equally invested in time wise, all at the very same time. Architect's going to be heavy handed at the beginning. Designer is going to carry it through and do all the, you know, designs after plans are completed. But their influence, I think on your behalf is crucial. And historically we said get us in six months before you start the build or be before you break ground. Ideally you're putting that whole, that team together, the dream team at the beginning so that they can like have the best intentions for your plans. It really, really, really helps. And it just gets us all on the same page and we can work as a team.
- [07:31]
Corey
Most of these six points that we're going to bring up today, you could probably do the same for an market architect and a builder.
- [07:37]
Alice
Oh my gosh.
- [07:38]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah.
- [07:38]
Corey
And obviously the other thing is too is to make sure they work well together and we'll get more into that later, but I love that.
- [07:44]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Okay, all right, let's get into it.
- [07:46]
Alice
Okay, so the second point we want to make is how to vet the interior designer. I think this is really important. This is also pretty easy to do today because we do have social media. The best interior design firms are probably going to have somebody on their staff that is just dedicated to capturing the work and, and sharing the work. It does take a ton of time to shoot your work and put together a portfolio and keep those things updated on the website. And the latest work is usually the stuff that they're most proud of. And so it really, it takes you, I mean, sue and I are getting ready to go leave to shoot a project next week and we'll be gone for the entire week to get it styled, shot, videoed. It's out of state. So it's a huge undertaking. Not to mention all the social content that you're going to grab. I think being able to look at the portfolio is important. And I also think looking at their Instagram feeds is probably showing work in progress because I do feel like people get so great at their craft the longer that they do it. And so you want to be able to make sure you're looking at current work. I think that's. That's really important. I also think that it's important to. To ask them, how are they working with other trades. Right. Get a feel for how technical they are. Subcontractors. You'll want to have them walk you through their documentation process so that you really understand if they can do the kitchen design and the bathroom design and the tile drawings and. And just see what they're handing off to that builder so that nothing is left to the imagination. What does that process look like through the build? And I also think it would be a really good idea to have the client ask this future designer for references so that you can call past clients and just ask how it went, how did it go with the build? And I think as designers, you should be prepared to be able to give out, you know, that information so that people can talk and say, how was your experience? You know, with that.
- [09:36]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
That's such good feedback. Just really, I want to hop back to what you're saying about just the technicalities. What does your project involve? Are you just looking for furniture? You're going to redesign furniture? Are you looking to build a new house? Are you looking to just a fluff and a tickle, like, what do you want to do for your project? And really, you have to align yourself with the right design firm and with the right person that can do the things that you want to do. I think it's kind of like vintage. It's a broad spectrum. Right. And same thing with designer. Everybody's going to say that they're a designer, but what type of designer are they a designer? Are they a decorator? What are their qualifications to. To get you what you need? It's so easy to trust somebody that says, I can do it. All right. Yeah, you have proofs in the pudding, man. You have to see that documentation. They have to be able to take you through that. And it's probably hard. As a client, you're just like, well, I actually don't know what I need. I don't know what I don't. And that's probably the seat listeners and clients are in at the beginning of a big project like that. So really, the more you talk, when you talk to, you know, your builder, you know, your architect, you know, getting even their references they know who they work well with. If you've seen somebody's work, be it the designer, the designer is going to have builder references. The builder is going to have designer references. The architect's going to have builder rest, you know, so we all kind of swim in this pool, you know, wherever you're at, to understand, like, this person knows cabinetry, they're going to be able to elevate, and they work great with my cabinet shop. So I would interview them. So really just start talking and really understand what are the qualifications of these firms that you're considering as much as you might like. You know how they style the coffee table on Instagram? Can they do cabinet drawings, if that's what you need? Can they specify tile? Can they work with trades? Can they, like, get into the details as well as style the cat, the coffee table?
- [11:25]
Corey
They're always going to say yes to that. So part of the vetting process is, like you said, go through their past work. They will show you what they can and cannot do from doing that and then getting contacts as well. What's that? You, like, you always. You have a saying, like, what Sally
- [11:38]
Alice
says about Sally doesn't mean as much as what Mary says about Sally.
- [11:41]
Corey
Exactly.
- [11:42]
Alice
Right.
- [11:42]
Corey
Yeah.
- [11:43]
Alice
So that really. That really, really matters. You want to make sure that that checks out. And I've gotten phone calls before for somebody wanting to hire, like, a past employee. And I love getting those calls, you know, because then I can really talk about how great they are. The one I just recently did, I was like, that was really fun to be like. I don't think you understand the magic that you're about to get your hands on. It's fun to be able to give people a reference. So I know, I know people won't mind giving that information out. I wouldn't mind. I mean, I wouldn't mind having somebody call a past client of ours. No. You know, I think that's such a fun conversation to have. Definitely ask the client for some references.
- [12:21]
Corey
Yeah. Or even go on their Instagram. If there's like a build you've seen, they work with, like, call that builder.
- [12:26]
Alice
Oh, yeah, that's a great idea.
- [12:27]
Corey
You know, the references you're given may not always be like, they're going to
- [12:30]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
be glossier than some of the saltier projects.
- [12:32]
Corey
100%. Yeah. Yeah. No one's giving out their bad references, you know. Yeah.
- [12:37]
Alice
The last part, I think about vetting the designers, like, trust your gut.
- [12:41]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Oh, my gosh.
- [12:42]
Alice
Do you. Do you like the firm, but also, do you like Them energetically. When you show up, when you're getting on the call, I think that you've really got to, to feel that out because this is a long term relationship. Like you're going to hang out with these people for probably least two years. Depending on the size of the build, it could be three to five. So you really want to like these people and trust them.
- [13:02]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah.
- [13:03]
Alice
Your gut really does tell you so much about a feeling. And if you need to meet with them more than once, do it and, and compare and contrast them about maybe others. But energetically, you want to really feel like, okay, I, we can, I can do something hard with you.
- [13:17]
Corey
Yep.
- [13:18]
Alice
You know what I mean? It's almost like, who do I want in the labor and delivery room with me? As I'm pushing this baby 100%, my husband's going to be there, but I need my mom right here by my face. You know, I'm going to push this baby out and I need to, I need her. I know that anyway, you guys are pushing a baby out with this person. This is a huge lift. And so you want this person's energy in the delivery room with you.
- [13:42]
Corey
Do they want to be there in the delivery room with you too? Is probably another thing. And they'll tell you that with their energy as well.
- [13:48]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
And I will say too, I'm like, we've worked with enough clients that have had used previous design firms before using us and probably likewise. But the thing with like hiring a designer and like getting behind this group of people behind you, it doesn't have to be just for this project. It's for all future projects. A home is never done as much as you want to say that your home is done. There's always something. There's always going to be an itch, a project, something that you're going to want to have. A phone, a friend. Your designer becomes that person. So, like, it's really, you are vetting a best friend. Right. You know, you're recording each other. Can we hang out for like time and all eternity as far as like, home projects are considered right for this project? For any project, like, would you ask this person for their restaurant recommendations? You want someone that's discerning and that has your best, your best interests at heart. And I think a good designer does that. And we become really close with our clients. We learn so much. We learn how they sleep, how the relationship with their kids, how they parent, all these things. And so it's a real, like you said, you're getting the deep end and you really, really want to be able to trust this person, you know, for any and all project, take it seriously.
- [14:56]
Corey
So this date should be more like them asking about you and not you having to pull out of them.
- [15:02]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah.
- [15:03]
Corey
A designer should design for that person. Not say, this is why I'm the best.
- [15:07]
Alice
Yeah. This is a little bit of a tangent, but a few years ago, soon I run a design panel at High Point Market for a furniture brand and there was somebody else. There's other designers that were sitting next to us. And no matter what question was asked, the designer that was sitting to my right continued to. To her. She would always answer the question and talk about her contract, always bring it back to her contract. Her contract, her contract. And I was like, she's lost the plot.
- [15:31]
Corey
Yeah.
- [15:32]
Alice
It's not just about the contract. It's about the human. It's about the person. It's about this connection that you are going to tell their story in their house. And if the only thing that you're interested in is you sit down to talk about the project is the contract, it feels more like a law firm, something like that. Where it's just like, this is the work and this is the amount of money it's going to be. And if there's any changes to that, here's an addendum. And that's the whole. That was the whole story that this person wanted to tell. And I was like, design is so far and above beyond just the paperwork of this. Like, you really got to like this person, trust this person, love their talents. Obviously they're going to come with a contract and a process and a team and all of those things as part of it. Yeah. And you want to make sure that's there too. But I think your spidey senses need to be on high alert and just really making sure that you're digging this person's energy, you're trusting them, you love their talents. Everything that you're hearing about them seems good. And your guts saying, yes, this is true for me too.
- [16:34]
Corey
Yeah, yeah. Budget's a real thing. You know, I often wish it wasn't, but it is. Yeah, but it is so much easier. Or so it's an easier pill to swallow when you get it done right the first time. Or what you're paying for is actually what you got and received. And that's going to come through so much more with someone who aligns with you personally and someone that is really in it for you. You know, leads art first. It shouldn't be about the budget or you know, this is how much hours cost and all of that.
- [17:05]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
So you do pay for what you get. So I'm just like, when you do go to the lowest bidder and what you're saying, as far as there's like this quality of honesty, you know, when you're talking to somebody that you really, really trust, that they're going to tell you that's not enough money to do what you want to do. So you really have to align, even though they're, you know, blowing smoke, make sure, like it's legitimate.
- [17:25]
Corey
Yeah.
- [17:25]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Otherwise you're just going to be disappointed and it's going to cost more money and you're just going to be ticked off the whole time.
- [17:32]
Corey
And you paid a bunch of money for something that you don't love.
- [17:34]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:35]
Corey
I'd rather pay me more for someone
- [17:36]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
to tell you what you wanted to hear versus what it actually costs.
- [17:39]
Corey
100%. Yeah.
- [17:41]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
All right.
- [17:42]
Alice
Part three we want to make is communication is everything. So keep in mind that you're hiring a creative person. So one of the things that you're going to look for is communication and responsiveness. So as you're just reaching out to them to set up a consultation, how long does it take for them to get back to you? What's the communication like? Are you connecting in that communication? Is it detailed as you're setting up a time to meet? And then even when you're meeting and then after you meet, I'm sure there's going to be a scope sent or something. How long does it take to get that information to you? This is going to be a good sign of how responsive they're going to be on your project and how detailed they're going to be in the communication to the builder and to the subs that they're working with. So this is a really nice little litmus test in the beginning. Pay attention to that as a green flag or a red flag.
- [18:29]
Corey
Communication never gets better. I'm gonna say no in. In the relationship point. It's where it's at from the start. It's either going to maybe dip a little from there. It's. It's not like, oh, they had a. A busy three months.
- [18:43]
Alice
Yeah.
- [18:43]
Corey
You know what I mean? So, yeah.
- [18:44]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah. And I will say in the back and forth, how does it feel to you communicating with them? Are you as equally engaged as the person? If you're putting. When you're ready and you're ready to commit to the design, you are there to communicate to them. And if they. If I see a client that's just like, they are on it. I need to match that energy. Even if I'm busy, I'm going to text them and I'm going to push that little send later so they get it right at 9am when they wake up. You just have to like, be engaged.
- [19:09]
Corey
Yeah.
- [19:09]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
And. And you want to be for these projects. It's so exciting, the prospect when you meet, like another human wanting to do something beautiful. Anyway, so from like the designer's point, make sure you're in it. Make sure that they know that you're in it, that your heart's there, because that will go a long way. As far as that gut check, I
- [19:28]
Corey
don't think it's necessarily, like, I text them 20 minutes ago and they haven't got back to me what I like to look for, because this is the type of person I am. I can't tell you how many subcontractors I've worked with where it's like 5:30 and they'll be like, I'll text you in the morning, bro. You own your own business. Like you're on the clock.
- [19:43]
Alice
Yeah.
- [19:43]
Corey
You know what I mean? Like, that's just. I'm a get it done whenever I have to get it done type of person. And sometimes, you know, that's. That's 7:30 at night. So if I get a text, I know I've got texts from you before it. I mean, weird hours. Yeah, yeah. And like, I'm like, that's awesome. Sue's, you know, it is like getting her stuff done at 11pm, 11:30. I would rather work with someone like that because then I know that they're the type of person that can't rest till they get done what they said they were going to get done.
- [20:11]
Alice
Another point within communication is everything is finding the right working relationship. So feel comfortable speaking up.
- [20:18]
Shopify Advertiser
Right.
- [20:19]
Alice
Because open communication is essential. And so if something's not working, you've got to speak up. You don't want to sit in that same decision you're unsure of while they continue to develop it. You want to speak up right away and just say, oh, I forgot to tell you, I really hate the color orange. I forgot. I meant I forgot to mention that to you or I forgot to mention you. We just barely moved from a house that had this sort of finish in it, and we're really hoping to go the opposite direction, whatever it is. But you probably love it when you get a client that speaks up and lets you know right away so that nobody wastes their time going further. Down that road, I will say at
- [20:54]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
the beginning of a project, we get a client's Pinterest board, we talk to them about each of these rooms. They only know what they know again at that point. And so even you know, when you start to go down the wrong road and, like, introduce ideas, the sooner you can tell them, like, you said, abort mission, abort mission. I don't like that direction. I'm like, fantastic. I'm going to show you option two. I had this thing in the. You know, because it's not like it's the only option we ever consider. Yeah, there's a hundred other options that have been considered to be like, okay, if you don't like this, then I would. I would redirect it to this. And the sooner you can tell me that, the faster we can get there. Don't worry about being polite. We can't be offended your designer if they are. You're getting offended by what you want. That's a red flag. That's not your designer. Really understand again why you're interviewing. If I have an idea midstream, can I introduce that? Make sure that they're okay with that, because you're going to experience different things and they should be able to be tie that idea into the North Star of your project. It's so, so important that you feel like you have a voice. This is your house, not. Not mine. This is your house and we're designing for you. And so a designer should have that outlook. And again, for just the greater good of the project, like, if we have your best ideas mixed with our, you know, filter and ideas, like, that's when beautiful things happen. But we have to have your honesty. And you can't feel afraid to talk or your husband or whoever is making decisions on this. Like, they're just going to resent the pro. The process, and they're never going to want to do this again. People that have hated their experience building a house, that usually is. What it comes down to is that they didn't speak up and they paid for something that wasn't theirs. And then they have to do it again and again and again, and it's exhausting. We recently just did a project for a client who's experienced that. She's just like, I've just never had a space that felt like my own. And she has a hard time making decisions and she has had a hard time, you know, communicating what she likes. And so it was our job to get several things and ideas in front of her and for us to Be completely honest with each other. And we came out with amazing, amazing results. And, like, at the end, we were about to walk out, and I'm like, what do you think? She's like, it feels like me. She did cry. I will say that there were tears. There were tears, but. Oh, it was just like, the most beautiful moment to have a space that feels like you. Like, there's no greater environment or moment that you can, like, feel like yourself in your space. Because when you're authentic to your space and authentic to yourself, then you can start doing other things that are authentic to you. How you treat people, how you're, you know, just everything. You can just start to blossom. Right?
- [23:26]
Corey
Yeah.
- [23:27]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
So anyway, just make sure, speak up,
- [23:29]
Corey
and those come to fruition from friction. Birthing a child, you're gonna have to do some pushing, you know, and it's uncomfortable in some situations, so I'll say
- [23:38]
Alice
to be involved in the design process. I know for some people, if it's a second home, they're just like, oh, just do your thing.
- [23:44]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Right.
- [23:45]
Alice
We just. We don't want to have to spend a lot of time. But you do. You do have opinions. You do have an outlook. You have probably lived with other furniture before. Maybe you guys don't like a scatterback, you know, cushion sofa. I remember this because my mom had one once and we learned that we hated not having back cushions. It was just all toss pillows as back cushions, and it's just always a disaster. And you always think to the back and pillows are always in all around you, and you're, like, drowning in pillows. Right. So you only have to make that mistake once, and then you always learn. That's the kind of thing that I never want. I think if you're hiring a designer, you want to be involved in the process. You want to understand the firm's process for collaboration, for feedback, for revisions, and you want to get in the sauce of it all, because then you're going to love the outcome.
- [24:30]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
The more involved you as a client are, the more involved you're and invested your designer will be. Clients that are excited about it, it. Our excitement feeds off of each other. If I see something, I'm texting it to her, like DMing or something from Instagram or something, and that communication line just becomes all the more fluid because you're both in it, you're both engaged. And so you have. You have to be in it again. When you're ready to implement design, that's when you should be the most excited and ready to just allow that the creative process, it's so much fun. Those of you that are saying, like, this isn't fun, well, you're listening to this podcast, so surely you all like design. So, you know, it's fun, but it should be fun. People say, you know, that first year of marriage is so hard, people make it hard. If you know the person and you know what you're getting into, you've asked all the right questions. It can be the most fun.
- [25:18]
Corey
Yeah.
- [25:18]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Same thing with design. It should be fun. Just do your homework.
- [25:22]
Alice
That last point is that great designers ask thoughtful questions, right? So that it can be thoughtful about how you live, what you find beautiful, what lights you up inside. So those should be some of the conversations that you're having and that you feel really seen, I think, in the process.
- [25:38]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah.
- [25:39]
Alice
Our fourth point, we want to make the money conversation.
- [25:42]
Corey
Yeah.
- [25:43]
Alice
Talk budget early hire designer who respects your budget and is honest with you. So you. You just been working with somebody on a scope up in Park City, Utah, right?
- [25:52]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:53]
Alice
And it was great that the budget was a part of the conversation in the first consultation. You're getting on the scale right there in the first meeting, and you're saying, this is exactly what it is. And then that way we know how to scope for what they want for this, for this property.
- [26:08]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
A lot of people don't know what to say because they don't know how much it's going to cost. When people come in with a concrete number and they're like, this is my number. This is what I'm paying to architect. This is what we're paying for the build. This is how much I have for you for design services and furniture, and can you do it? And you're just like, well, let's understand the project. And then when you have a number, that's something I can go off of, and so don't feel like, oh, I don't want to tell them my number, because then maybe they'll take the whole thing or. Or they'll, you know, take advantage of me. The more clear you can be with me, the mark could be like, that's plenty. We're gonna have.
- [26:39]
Shopify Advertiser
That's.
- [26:39]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
That's awesome. Or it's gonna be, you know, let me map out what that will get you, you know, because I don't want to short sheet our process and not make this not a great experience. So with that budget, I want to tell you exactly, like, what on this, like, beautiful menu of things that you want, you can get right now and then phase it 1, 2, 3, 4, whatever it is. And then we can be completely honest with each other and we can either commit or you move on, you know, and so we're not wasting time, but we're being respectful. You owe it to the designer. Give them some idea of what is that anticipated cost that you have in your head or your husband's head, and they can tell you what they can do with that. And if they can't really help you break down exactly what that will get you and have some industry knowledge of what it's going to cost, then that's also a red flag. Y so between your designer and your builder, they should be able to get on the same page and be like, okay, you have a great cabinet maker. Okay, is he doing the shop drawings? Okay, then we're going to work really closely with him so I don't have to, you know, then we can lean on each other to take some of those hours away. So you really want someone that works well with others and that can understand your budget. Otherwise it's going to go over. Things are just expensive a hundred percent of the time. Projects go over budget and people don't understand how much things cost. Even from like last year to this year, it's changed. We have tariffs in a war, you
- [27:59]
Alice
know, like we have tariffs in a war and fuel surcharges that are. We're finding out from vendors that are really going to be affecting the cost of furniture in the coming months. We're expecting the furniture costs to go up from our vendors just due to fuel surcharges. So things are changing fast. I had a neighbor that just said he was just looking at replacing some his windows and it was a hundred thousand dollar bid. So just replaces when windows. These aren't like massive homes either. So everything's just like, it feels like funny money numbers right now. It's the most expensive it's ever been. But to that point, what I want to say is that good designers know the cost of things right now. They know the market race, they know the rough cost of materials. And so when they sit down to talk to you, they should be able to help educate you on what you can get with your budget. Because people don't know what things cost. So we have to be transparent with them about numbers and we have to be pretty confident about them too. And don't be afraid to even ask your builder as you're talking along the way. You know, we talked to a builder about a recent remodel that we just completed and it was fun knowing the final Final number of the build portion of it. Because we did the drawings for it, we specified the materials and we also did the furnishings. And so sometimes you don't know what the whole pie is at the end. You might know what your portion is that the client's given you. But it's fun. I think, I think it's important for everybody to know the numbers so that we can speak confidently about them and stay educated on them.
- [29:24]
Corey
Yeah.
- [29:25]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
And we will be more empathetic the more we know.
- [29:28]
Alice
Yes.
- [29:28]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
You know, and we'll be able to like, really? We're like, okay, that's a big bill for Mrs. Smith. And I really want to do my best to make this beautiful, but what can we do to pull the price down? I can't believe that that cost that much money or how to. They had that situation because building, you're just like, oh, man. They had to remove a massive rock underneath their foundation, you know, and that costs, you know, $500,000 or whatever. What can we do to help you? You want helpers? You want people that are talented and trustworthy, but you want people that are good hearted and willing to help.
- [29:58]
Corey
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:59]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Get you to the finish line.
- [30:01]
Corey
A good designer is going to consider what your project says about them. Think if it's something that they can't do and make themselves look good. That's. A good designer is going to say that up front. So, you know, another reason just to have the money conversation early, just to make sure you guys are aligning because you don't want. Have to have someone work on your project that's like bummed out about it at the end, you know, that's. No one's winning in that situation.
- [30:24]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
No. And when we do understand the budget and we're like aligned with the client and we're aligned with the builder, the builder really is going to help a lot. Your allowance, like this is the overall budget. We are not going over this amount because it's is what they've agreed to. Therefore, your allowances kind of sit here in the budgets. And so if I'm going over it continually on tile, you know, and on every single line item, you know, that looks really bad on me. That builder's not going to want to work with me. You're not ever going to hire me again. And so for us to be able to be on the same page is everything. It's everything. And we. And at the end of the day, everybody on your team wants us to be beautiful. We want to take pictures of it. We want to like look at it. Scroll through our phones at midnight, because that's what we do. We love this stuff. Right. And so I'm going to try and get it as beautiful as it can be for whatever the cost is per square foot. That's what we do. We're in it for the beauty man. Yeah, completely.
- [31:18]
Corey
The passion has to be there.
- [31:19]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah.
- [31:19]
Alice
Yeah, it does. Part 5. Once you establish the relationship with the designer, you have to fully commit to doing it before you pull the trigger. Trust and go with your vision.
- [31:29]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
When you're ready to hire a designer, that means you're ready to implement. Right. And once you, like, get the design, everything's approved. Don't second guess. Don't keep second guessing. You had a great analogy for this, Jess. The tumbling.
- [31:41]
Alice
Oh, yeah.
- [31:41]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
The tumbling thing was, like, brilliant.
- [31:43]
Alice
I heard somebody talking about how when you're. If you're a gymnast and you're running down the mat, you have to decide while you're running down the mat that you're going to stick that landing, you know, and so you've decided while you're running and you're getting that momentum that you are going to do the full tuck and you're going to land it. You can't decide if you're going to go for it. Like, once you hit the ground, you can't. You'll never land it. You know, you have to be fully, fully in this thing. And I feel like it's the same thing. Like, as you're designing, you're getting the momentum for this thing, and you've really got to trust the process. And there's going to be a moment where you're like, this is really ballsy. Do I dare do this? You know, I just had this experience when I plastered my bathroom, and I was like. Like, this is a lot more color than I was thinking. I thought it was going to be
- [32:29]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
kind of a parchment, and now it's
- [32:31]
Alice
like a full blown terracotta.
- [32:33]
Corey
Gotta stick that landing.
- [32:34]
Alice
Suzanne was like, just trust your vision. Trust your vision. I'm like, here I go. And I'm just, like, doing the full talk, you know?
- [32:41]
Corey
Yeah.
- [32:41]
Alice
And, like, landing it. And even then, like, I'd wake up in the morning, open the door, and just be like, I did it. Like, I landed the top, you know? But you really do just have to fully commit.
- [32:51]
Corey
Yeah.
- [32:52]
Alice
I mean, and I hope that you have that nervous energy about it, because then you're really doing something. If you're painting the walls taupe, you're probably not feeling like you're having to run at all toward this thing.
- [33:03]
Corey
When the hesitation happens in that, like, process, though, is when stuff starts getting sideways. Yes.
- [33:09]
Alice
And expensive.
- [33:10]
Corey
Yep.
- [33:11]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Usually this happens when you start to see, like, just pieces and parts of things being implemented. The paint's gone up, the tile's gone up, but you don't see everything together. You don't have the light.
- [33:21]
Alice
The cabinetry has plastic over it, so you can't see it in concert with the other things. And so you can't get the full vision.
- [33:27]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah. You have to remember what was the overall vision of this, and you have to trust your designer. That is the thing. I'm just like. You were seeing this thing half naked. We have to dress it like. She's not dressed yet.
- [33:37]
Corey
Yeah.
- [33:37]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Okay. Let me get some clothes on her. Let me finish everything else. You're gonna love it. Just keep on this train with me, tuck, roll, whatever you gotta do. Because the second you start to, like, you take rip this thing apart is when it starts to fall apart.
- [33:49]
Corey
Yeah.
- [33:49]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
And you're just like, well, I don't understand why this will work with that. Because those two colors don't match. You're just like, promise I. The art's not done.
- [33:56]
Pandora Jewelry Announcer
Yeah.
- [33:57]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
It's gonna get here. It's gonna tie the whole room together. The rugs in production, whatever it is,
- [34:01]
Alice
you know, dining chairs are bold strokes. The rug is gonna pull it together. Like, there's so many pieces and parts to this. You can't chicken out midway down the mat.
- [34:09]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
No. And the designer didn't just, like, design just these two things. They designed the whole thing, you know, with the client to make sure that all this is going to come together. So even if you have to put yourself in timeout, don't visit the site for a second. If you are that personality, just, like, wait for them. Them to finish. If you. If that is, like, your bit of anxiety. Right. You just have to wait. The designer is also a therapist. Half of our job is just talking people off the ledge and be like, it's going to be good. It's going to be good. You're okay. You're okay. Because we're going to make sure that this happens. I'm going to talk to the seven. We are always calling all the right people, because that's what we do. That's our job, to have those relationships, to make sure that you are happy and to make sure that this thing's going to be beautiful and pulled off.
- [34:48]
Corey
So maybe that's a good question to ask them how they've talked people off Ledges before. Because I think that's part of your job, is to be like, hey, we've got this. Bring it back to reality. Bring them back to the. In skateboarding, call it the roll away mindset. It's like, if you have to have the mindset that I'm landing this and rolling away, if you don't, you're probably getting hurt in the process. So it's the same. Same analogy. And then bring it back to that mindset, you know? And so that's. Yeah, that'd be a great question, I think, to ask your designers.
- [35:12]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
And I would, Ray, rather have the client text me if they have anything that they're not loving. I'm like, okay, you know what? Let's address this thing that you're not seeing is this hasn't been installed yet, but, ooh, okay, you're concerned about this, then let's address it. Let's. Let's fix it.
- [35:26]
Corey
Let's pivot from here.
- [35:27]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Pivot from here. Exactly. And so you should be able to have designers gotta be flexible anyway, and you need to be trusting. If you hire this person, if you hire the right person, you've done all the legwork and research that this is your person, this is your designer. Trust them. Trust the process. The best projects happen when the clients have trusted us and we have each other and we. We've got each other's back.
- [35:49]
Alice
Let me also say this.
- [35:50]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah.
- [35:51]
Alice
The best rooms are usually the secondary or tertiary rooms, because in the beginning, they were warming up. You can always see it in the. In the beginning spaces. And then all of a sudden, on these sort of secondary space and stuff, you're like, this is awesome. It's because they started trusting the designer and going, this is fun. This is fun. I dare do this in my daughter's room. I dare do this in the playroom. Let's go for it in my closet. And then you're like, I wish I would have had that trust early on to go for it in the kitchen, in the entryway.
- [36:19]
Corey
Yeah. So don't start with your most important spaces.
- [36:22]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
I would say we always start with the kitchen, usually just because that's the hardest working. It's the one they're most invested. It's most expensive room in the house. Open your mind to what could be. Tell your designer that as you guys are trying to align on images or, you know, ideas of what you want this thing to feel like, be say, this is what I. I know that I need it to do. This is the function. But I want you to stretch me, I want. So show me some wild cards, because those will pay off. If you have a good designer, the wild card is the option one, and that is what you should go with.
- [36:51]
Corey
Or if that's your personality. Yeah. To kind of hesitate like that at the beginning. Maybe start with the guest room. You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [36:58]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah.
- [36:58]
Alice
So, yes. Our final part that we wanted to say, part six of this is the designer's perspective. Designers are interviewing clients too. Designers, make sure the client is the right fit for you. A few years ago, I was talking with a builder, and we were talking about a client that we were going to be teamed up with together. And the builder was actually saying, I'm very nervous because I don't know if you've noticed, but this client is not a raving fan of anybody. She's fired all of her past designers. And the builder said. So I said to her, if you've hired. Fired all of your last builders and designers, you'll probably fire us too. So he passed on the project because she was a raving fan of no one. And I think that that's very interesting. So, designer, if you show up at the home and you just are constantly hearing about how she hired somebody once and how they were so awful, you should really start to ask questions about that. And maybe at the end you say, you know what? You'll probably fire me too. I also might make that mistake that they made. I don't know. It's. It's really hard to make somebody happy that just can't be happy at anything in life.
- [38:07]
Corey
So true.
- [38:07]
Alice
And you don't want to be married to a project for years where it's. It's robbing you of your sleep and your peace and your good nature. It's. That's too much work. It just is. So really, designers, be on high alert for that.
- [38:22]
Corey
I'm gonna say another good question to ask your designer would be, tell me about a time where you said no to a project and why. Because I think you want to. I think you want to hire someone who is discerning and knows when it's not a good match. Because if they've just said they say yes to every single project. Yeah. Yeah.
- [38:37]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Really painful.
- [38:38]
Corey
Maybe they're in it for the wrong reasons.
- [38:40]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah. And the fact that they're brave enough to say no also, I think that that's selling of a human.
- [38:44]
Corey
Yeah.
- [38:45]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Because it's like work is work, you know, like, we all have to, you know, feed our kids at the end of the day. Not saying yes. Is hard. Especially like, we're people pleasers. We love people. We're all about the relationship.
- [38:55]
Corey
And you want to make it work.
- [38:56]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yeah. This is a people business. We happen to be good at design.
- [38:59]
Pandora Jewelry Announcer
Right.
- [38:59]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
And so. So to say no is very against our nature. But when you trust your gut as a designer, you have to follow through with that. And when you don't, it's not going to go well. And we've done this for a long enough time where we have had those experiences, and it's. And it's not fun. It's not fun to just be like, this isn't actually a good fit. I don't feel good about the direction of, like, where you're taking this. And, you know, I'm gonna have to bow out and so sorry that I didn't tell you this before. Like, that's not fair to them. It's not fair to you.
- [39:27]
Corey
Yeah.
- [39:28]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
So. Or your team.
- [39:29]
Corey
Yeah.
- [39:29]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
At all.
- [39:30]
Corey
And you guys have learned that. That lesson the hard way. And so. Yeah. You've made changes, like moving forward. And I think that's another tale of
- [39:39]
Alice
a good designer being honest about expectations.
- [39:41]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Oh, my gosh.
- [39:42]
Alice
Yeah. Right. As a designer, be honest about what it takes and costs to use design services and get full. Yeah, that's. That's part of the job is. Is knowing that we are a luxury.
- [39:53]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Like interior designers. It's a luxury when covet. All these things happen. I'm just like, well, there goes us. You know, I get. I guess we're done here. Yeah.
- [40:02]
Alice
We're not a necessity. We are not toilet paper.
- [40:05]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Right. We're not. Yeah.
- [40:07]
Alice
You don't have to have an interior designer. Right. It is a luxury to get to hire one.
- [40:11]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
What you are paying for is just like years and years of experience and years, years and years of relationship building that we can problem solve. We can make something beautiful, but we can solve all the problems whilst we're doing it. So that's why you're hiring a designer.
- [40:27]
Alice
A few takeaways.
- [40:28]
Corey
Cool.
- [40:28]
Alice
The best designer client relationships usually come down to four things.
- [40:32]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Yes.
- [40:32]
Alice
Hire the right person, not just the portfolio. I think both are important. But that person piece first. Yep. Right. Number two, talk about budget early. Number three, communicate openly. And number four, once you've chosen your designer, trust the process and really commit to the vision.
- [40:50]
Corey
Yep. Stick that landing.
- [40:52]
Alice
Guys, thanks so much for joining today. I hope this list is so helpful for you as you guys embark on your design journeys. If you're loving the podcast, be sure to follow on your favorite listening platform and while you're there, give us a review and a five star review and share the podcast with a friend if you will. It's our goal to grow Dear Alice to be worldwide number one in the world.
- [41:14]
Designer (possibly Sue or Jess)
Number one in the nation. But we want to be number one in the world.
- [41:17]
Alice
Yes. And if you have any episode ideas, please send those to Dear Alice alicelanehome.com We'd love to hear from you and be sure to give us a follow on Instagram. We're at Alice Lane Home and like I said, we are interior designers. So you can follow the interior design side at Alice Lane Interiors to see some behind the scenes of the projects we're working on right now. We'll catch you guys next time. Thanks so much for listening. Hey, thanks for listening. If you like our show, please leave a five star rating.
- [42:08]
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