Overlooked Design Details: Kitchens & Pantries

Summary

Dear Alice | Interior Design

Episode: Overlooked Design Details: Kitchens & Pantries

Released: August 6, 2026

Hosts: Alison (Jessica Bennett), Suze (Suzanne Hall), Cory

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Episode Overview

This episode of Dear Alice dives deep into the often-overlooked design details that make the difference between a standard kitchen/pantry and a truly exceptional, highly-functional, and beautiful space. Drawing on 20 years of high-end residential design experience, Alison, Suze, and Cory break down the kitchen and pantry by function, cabinetry, appliances, storage, lighting, hardware, and finishes. Their signature wit and design know-how emphasize both the technical details and the art of kitchen design, making this episode a must-listen for anyone considering a kitchen remodel or new build.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of the Kitchen & Smart Planning

• Kitchens are the home's heart, most expensive room, and need to withstand dated trends and daily function.
• Function comes before aesthetics: The work triangle (sink, stove, fridge) is essential, but consider customized "zones" for a household’s unique needs—breakfast bars, baking stations, smoothie corners, etc.
• Large kitchens may need multiple triangles or secondary sinks to facilitate family help and large gatherings.
  • “The kitchen is vital to a happy home.” – Suze [01:01]
  • “You might want a secondary sink or multiple work triangles.” – Alison [04:53]

2. Appliance Selection Should Lead Design

• Never start kitchen design until ALL appliances are chosen.
• Take a “date” to an appliance store—bring all decision makers; appliances are a major investment.
  • “It’s like buying a very expensive car when you’re buying all your appliances at once.” – Alison [06:10]
• Appliance specs dictate cabinetry dimensions, utility hookups, and layout.
• The range is the kitchen’s focal point, but don't ignore secondary ovens, fridge/freezer drawers, ice machines, etc.

Notable Range & Hood Advice

• Range width options: 30", 36", 48", 60". Plan based on how much you actually cook and need.
• Hood must be WIDER than the range—3–6 inches per side (e.g., for 48" range, use 54–60" hood).
  • “Don’t match [the hood] to the width of your range.” – Suze [10:06]
  • “If your hood is smaller than your cooktop, it won’t function or ventilate properly.” – Cory [10:31]

3. Kitchen Ventilation: Do Not Skimp

• ALWAYS vent a hood to the exterior. Recirculating hoods trap smells and are a last resort.
  • “Don’t bake the salmon. Just don’t get that [recirculating vent].” – Alison [15:08]
• Venting is easier along an exterior wall. Plan for this early!

4. Cabinetry & Storage Planning

Tabletop Appliances

• Plan for countertop appliances (stand mixers, toasters, blenders, air fryers, etc.).
  • Store them in dedicated towers or inside pantries with built-in outlets.
  • Hydraulic lift-up cabinet doors are best for appliance garages, not traditional swinging doors.
    • “The hydraulic door is the best… all the way out of the way.” – Alison [18:01]

Drawers vs. Doors

• Prefer drawers, especially for pots/pans—more ergonomic and accessible.
  • “Full-extension drawers are a must, especially for big pots and pans.” – Cory [22:46]
  • “Drawers are more expensive than doors, but so much more functional.” – Suze [23:26]
• Customize storage: Plan for utensils, knives, spices, bowl sizes, everyday dishes, and consider open shelving for decorative relief and practicality.

Open Shelving

• Open shelving, especially flanking the hood, adds visual relief and is functional if designed thoughtfully.
  • “It’s almost like the high heels of the kitchen…” – Alison [21:26]
• Keep shelves for everyday dishes and decorative items.

Pantry

• Shallow, open shelves are best—12–14” depth is ideal to avoid losing food to the back.
  • “If you have pantry shelves the depth of a cabinet, it’s actually too deep.” – Alison [23:50]
• Create zones: hidden storage for bulk groceries, open shelves for everyday "grocery shopping" in your own home.
• Pocket or double-swing pantry doors for easy access with full arms are a game-changer.
• Add outlets in pantry/mudroom for appliances and charging vacuums.

5. Finishes & Materiality

• White/neutral kitchens are timeless, but add interest with mixed metals, wood stains, and unique features like a stain-grade island beside painted perimeters.
• Integrate antique or furniture-like elements for soul—e.g., butcher blocks attached to islands for functional, tactile prep space. Limit island length to avoid "stretch limousine" effect.

6. Panel-Ready Appliances & Integration

• Hide appliances where possible, especially fridges; be strategic about panel-ready dishwashers due to maintenance/replacement issues.
• Never put the microwave above the stove or in upper cabinets—opt for drawers or conceal in lower cabinets or pantries.

7. Countertops & Backsplashes

• Choose slabs in person—each natural stone is unique.
  • “It is God’s art gallery. It’s the best time.” – Suze [37:43]
• Go bold—veining, color, and edge details are critical for luxury.
• Edge profile matters: move beyond standard squared edges to bullnose, double bullnose, or OG edges.
  • “Don’t phone it in… Give the fabricator an edge detail.” – Suze [39:36]
• Backsplashes: Combine slab and tile for interest; use glazed, artisan, or Zellige (hand-glazed) tiles for unique impact.
  • “You get some dark, some highs, some lows, and you’re like… an artist made these tiles.” – Alison [42:25]

8. Lighting Layers

• Pendants above islands are kitchen jewelry; size, placement, and detail matter.
  • Hang smaller pendants lower (34”–36” above counter), larger ones higher.
  • “Those pendants…become such a personality trait of the kitchen.” – Suze [43:25]
• Add cans (preferably 2” for a pinpoint, designer look), monopoints for lower ceilings, task sconces (wipable, no fabric shades), and “baby lamps” (e.g., Rocco or Penny) for layered ambience.

9. Plumbing Fixtures & Hardware

• Use polished nickel for utility plumbing (main sinks, pot fillers) and reserve gold/brass for hardware and lighting “jewelry.”
  • “In the space where you have so many metals… just do polished nickel for the utility pieces.” – Suze [48:42]
• Invest in hardware—buy samples and consider backplate details for luxury vibes.
  • “You’re not going to get cheap ones… get the really expensive ones... because you’re touching these every day.” – Suze [50:06]
  • Favorite lines include Waterstone for faucets, Armac Martin, Classic Brass, and Rocky Mountain for hardware.

10. Flooring

• Wood is most comfortable and most often used for kitchens, with tile or marble as a statement in pantries or special occasions; matches the general preference for continuous open plan spaces.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On function:
  “If we’re ever kind of clowning on a kitchen, it’s usually because the work triangle is so bad.” – Alison [02:14]

• On the buying process:
  “It's like buying a very expensive car when you're buying all your appliances at once.” – Alison [06:10]

• On open shelving:
  “It's almost like the high heels of the kitchen. It's a look that you don't expect.” – Alison [21:26]

• On cooking for family:
  “She has two daughters, four daughters in law, we’re all helping her in the kitchen... you probably are going to want a secondary sink.” – Alison [04:53]

• On design risks:
  “They've regretted not going for the more exciting countertop because... it pays you back every time you look at it.” – Suze [36:12]

• On lighting:
  “They're the jewelry.” – Alison [43:25]

• On backsplash tiles:
  “Each tile is individual, even though it's in the same colorway... you’re like, an artist made these tiles.” – Alison [42:25]

• On hardware:
  “You’re not going to get cheap ones… get the really expensive ones... because you’re touching these every day.” – Suze [50:06]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–02:36 – Why kitchen design matters and how it reflects lifestyle
• 02:36–05:17 – The work triangle and personalization of kitchen zones
• 05:21–11:10 – Appliance-first design, “appliance date,” and range/hood sizing
• 11:12–15:43 – Hoods: design, proportion, and ventilation (recirculating vs. vented)
• 15:53–19:29 – Tabletop appliances: storage solutions and appliance garages
• 19:29–22:05 – Drawers vs. cabinet doors, customizing storage, open shelving
• 22:46–23:44 – Full-extension drawers and functional cabinetry planning
• 23:50–28:49 – Pantry design: shelf depth, open vs. closed storage, door types, and outlets
• 28:49–32:38 – Materiality, color, and integrating islands/butcher blocks
• 32:39–36:55 – Paneled appliances and hiding utilities (fridge, dishwasher, microwave)
• 36:55–39:14 – Slab selection and countertop material choices (marble, quartzite, etc.)
• 39:18–42:53 – Edge details, back splash creativity, artisan tiles
• 42:53–48:32 – Layered lighting: pendants, cans, monopoints, sconces, baby lamps
• 48:42–52:18 – Plumbing, faucets, hardware selection, favorite brands
• 52:18–52:51 – Flooring preferences for kitchens and pantries

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Design Takeaways & Tips

• Plan from the inside out—know your appliances, how you cook, and how you live before starting cabinetry or finishes.
• Integrate zones tailored to your family's real-life patterns.
• Spend time and money on focal points—range, hood, lighting, hardware.
• Layer materials, metals, and textures for visual interest and longevity.
• Seek out artisan elements—custom hoods, hand-glazed tiles, backplates for hardware.
• Embrace both functional and decorative lighting.
• Prioritize comfort and usability; if it looks good but doesn’t work, it’s not good design.
• Don’t be afraid to push for something memorable—a slab, a unique hardware finish, or a standout lighting fixture.

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Final Thought

This episode functions as a masterclass in kitchen & pantry design—from the philosophy of function-first planning to the specifics of drawers, lighting, and hardware. The hosts’ playful yet practical style ensures you’ll walk away with both inspiration and actionable steps for your next kitchen project.

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For further questions, send them to Dear Alice at alice lanehome.com or find more behind-the-scenes at Alice Lane Home and Alice Lane Interiors on social media!

Transcript

[Alison]

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Dear Alice. If you're new here, we are the designers behind Alice Lane, an interior design firm that has spent the last 20 years designing custom homes, remodels, and interiors. And each week we share design principles. Mistakes. Mistakes are very important to share.

[Suze]

Probably the most important.

[Alison]

I think it's the greatest teacher.

[Suze]

It is.

[Alison]

So we want to share those with you and also all the insider knowledge that we use every day with our own clients.

[Cory]

And today we have another episode of Overlook Design Details. And today we're going to be tackling the kitchen, which involves cabinetry, appliances, countertops, backsplashes, lighting, plumbing and hardware, and a couple of other more things as well.

[Alison]

On the Overlook Design Details, we knew we would do a kitchen episode. That's going to be a really big episode.

[Suze]

Always next time, it's the most technical

[Alison]

space in the house. So if you are planning an upcoming kitchen remodel or if you're planning a build, you have to listen to this episode. You're going to want to take notes. It is really juicy and packed with great information, but that we've learned over the last 20 years.

[Suze]

And it's the room you want to get right. Sometimes people will be like, do a little bit here, do a little bit there. It doesn't feel complete. We all see who our true selves are in our kitchen. We are so reflective. And that's usually why we start with the kitchen when we start on a home is because we learn so much about the client and we learn so much about the energy of a house. The kitchen is vital, I think, to a happy home.

[Cory]

I think it's one of the spaces in a home that can be so personalized to you and how you function in it. There's so many customizable pieces, so it's the room you don't want to phone in.

[Alison]

Also, it's probably your most expensive room

[Cory]

in the house, without a doubt.

[Alison]

So you really want to get it right. Look and feel. Because if it's going to feel dated because you're using old trends in the next five years, that will be so sad.

[Cory]

Yeah.

[Alison]

So we really want to be on the cutting edge of this so that you're never, ever going to regret it. You don't want to have to remodel a kitchen if you can help it. You might want to tweak this or that. You might have to replace a faucet or an appliance over time, but if you can really nail the look, you. This kitchen could last you forever. So we're Going to give you all of that great information today. First up, though, we want to talk about the overall function of the space. I feel if we're ever kind of clowning on a kitchen, it's usually because the work triangle is so bad.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

That we're like, I feel so bad for whoever's standing over there cooking on that lone island of a stove. And the refrigerator's clear over here, and the sink's clear over there.

[Suze]

Throw some deep lunges on top of it. Gosh. Too much workout.

[Alison]

Yeah. The overall fun function and that work triangle. Getting that really right. And I think that pantry and prep space is really key in the design as well.

[Suze]

I do, too. And so many of the homes that we're building, these design homes, have not only a robust kitchen, but they do have this accessory kitchen or scullery. A lot of people are calling what's called the dirty kitchen, which is just the area where you're making a big mess in addition to your regular kitchen. And then so there's so many different sub rooms to the kitchen that, again, that those are workhorses, too. And so getting those details right is imperative. I. I kind of want to back up. You were talking about the work triangle. As far as functionality goes, Jess, what is the work triangle?

[Alison]

You want to get these three areas to be as tight as possible because it's the most efficient. So it's your kitchen sink, it's your stove, and it's your refrigerator. And I will tell you, anything that's coming from the freezer is probably going to be going into either the microwave or it's going to be going next to your stove, probably to desaw, but usually to the microwave. So you want those really close together as well. So in the design of that, I've seen so many stoves that are off on their own thing with the big range hood coming over it, and it's not close at all to. To those other two. The refrigerator. Yeah. And the sink.

[Suze]

It's a very personal space. Some people don't even like cooking. Some people love to cook. Understanding what are the different zones for different training, because you might have several triangles in your kitchen and pantry, you know, because you like to make smoothies in the morning and your kids like to make toast. And so understanding everyone in your household what their triangles are at different times a day is so important so that you guys aren't colliding with each other. And it becomes a frustrating experience after you spend all this money. So really study the floor plan and understand kind of draw that triangle from those key spaces, your fridge to your stove to your sink, might create a breakfast station with your blender and all the things that you need for your kids to function. And that maybe you have a refrigerator drawer to keep our freezer. Right. To keep all your frozen stuff and your protein drinks. So understanding our baking station, understanding how you want to functionally use the kitchen is imperative. Before you start to do the pretty stuff, you have to understand the function.

[Alison]

It's pretty common in large kitchens like we work on, to have two work triangles. I'm just thinking about my mom's kitchen right now, and because she has a corner sink looking out the window, she has a secondary sink in her island.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

So sometimes it's just a matter of adding a second sink in. And that's really great because she has two daughters, four daughters in law, we're all helping her in the kitchen. We all need that second sink and she has so many of us helping to cook whenever there's big events. And so thinking about that space in full bloom and full function in a large kitchen, you probably are going to want a secondary sink or multiple work triangles.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

Yeah. Okay, let's get into it. Cabinetry and storage planning.

[Suze]

So the first thing, when you were starting a kitchen remodel or a new build, the first thing we have our clients do is to obviously understand how you want to cook. And the best way to do that is to go on a date to an appliance store. That's the first thing that we need. The builder wants that list right from the get to really understand how much fridge space do you want? What are the pain points of the kitchen you currently have? And any kitchens you've experienced that don't function correctly. So you need a bigger fridge. You need two 36 inch fridges because of how much you guys cook and the prep space and everything that you need. And you need X amount of freezers and then maybe an additional freezer drawer over here by the kids so they can have popsicles near your entrance to your backyard, you know, or an ice

[Cory]

machine or anything extra that you're going to have or what the hookups are for your range.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Cory]

You know, is it electric or gas?

[Alison]

And I think appliance shopping, you discover sometimes what you want because the appliance salesperson is going to ask you, what about an ice machine? You're like, oh, I never dreamed I could have an ice machine. And they're like, well, let me show you the different types of ice. And you're like, oh, my Gosh, I want an ice machine. So this is why the designer should never start on your kitchen design until they have your appliance list in mind. Because they could have designed a kitchen with say a 48 inch range. And it was always been your dream to have a 60 inch range. And when you show up with the paperwork, it's 60 inches and that 48 doesn't fit in the, in the plan anymore. So nobody should design a kitchen until all the appliances have been chosen and you've gone through with the appliance salesman, all of the different types. Here's the truth. It's like buying a very expensive car when you're buying all your appliances at once. And I would dare say most spouses are going to want to be with you while you guys are making this massive decision, because there's a huge swing between good and great when it comes to appliance brands. And you both need to be aligned on what's important to you because you're probably going to spend six figures on appliances. And if you do it for less, that's great. And there are so many ways to do it for less and not having to use some of the big brands, but that's where you're going to want to get an alignment because this is probably one of the biggest line items as far as the budget goes on. Your build sheet is going to be appliances. And cabinetry is massive as well.

[Suze]

In regards to appliances, in the history of all clients that we've ever had, the range or just that focus point, it's important to us because we want to orient the kitchen when we're planning it to have all eyes on that range scene. That's the money shop, for lack of better terms. And you want to see the range. There's so many beautiful ones. And you might everything else, your fridges, your other secondary ovens, everything might be the sub zero wolf package because you love how the way they function. But you've always dreamed of a, you know, a la Cornue French oven, you know, or something really beautiful, if that's your style, right? Understanding the capabilities of how you want to cook on that range, it's so key to identify what the style is. Not only the function, but the style of it. And so if I know that Homegirl wants a Chateau series, okay, I can see like what is important. And so it really does dictate some of the other design decisions just by knowing the appliances and the look of them. And also when we look at a plan, we can see, okay, this is a Big kitchen, you're going to need a 60 inch range. If you're getting a chateau or a wolf or something, that's two full ovens underneath your stovetop, which is awesome. And she's. That's great. I actually use three in my current kitchen. And so at that point I'll be like, okay, you have a 16 inch range, two full ovens. We're going to need one more oven back in that pantry close by. Because you guys like to bake rolls, right? Understanding those things of how you operate equals out to how many appliances and where do they all go. It really is plain Tetris with all these things and creating these triangles with your wish list with ranges, you go 30, 36, 48, 60. Those are your pretty standard options. And all of them obviously have different capacities of what the oven is, if it's single, if it's one and a half or if it's too full. Understanding what do you have room for and what do you need to make. Create room for is. And it's fun, but makes you want to cook. Oh, my gosh.

[Alison]

Because once you learn about all of their functions and what they do, you can really appreciate the machine that you're buying. And then you're like, I do want to bake rolls, I do want to steam my broccoli in that steamer that I just bought. You suddenly feel like a culinary mastermind and you're so excited about your new kitchen.

[Suze]

Am I Martha Stewart?

[Alison]

Yeah, totally.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

So that's your first date. Your first day is you're going to go appliance shopping and you're going to get all of the things on that list before you sit down with your designer to talk. Now, before we move on from appliances, can we quickly talk about hood size in relevation to the range? Because like you said, Suze, this is your crown jewel in the kitchen. So we're going to have our range. So you've got a 48 inch range. And how much larger than the 48 inch range is the hood?

[Suze]

Usually when we're looking at on plan view, you have a 48, you're going to want to be about 3 to 6 inches, depending on your span, wider on each side of that range for the best ventilation. And I think for proportions of what that looks like, I don't want to have my hood width to be the exact same. I don't want it to be 48. You're going to want to have somewhere between 54 and 60, depending on what you have room to grow it. But don't match it to the width of your range.

[Cory]

And that was 3 to 6 inches per side. So if you have a 48 inch range, minimum is 54 to 60. And that's not just an aesthetically pleasing ratio. That's also for function as well, because if you just think about your hood being smaller than the surface you're cooking on, it's not going to be able to pull everything up and vent out all the smells and steam and all of that.

[Alison]

So this is the piece that you're going to work with your designer on, because you don't really know if you're buying a hood vent. And if you're designing a hood in cabinetry or maybe you're doing a wood hood that they're plastering or something like that, most likely you're not going to buy the hood that matches the appliances in.

[Cory]

A customer probably don't do that.

[Alison]

Yeah, it used to be that people would get this skinny stainless steel stove stack, and then it kind of came out a little bit, and it was probably the same with as your stove, and it was a glory to no one. So now you're really going to do this with cabinetry. So most likely you're just going to get the insert from your.

[Suze]

Your appliance dealer.

[Alison]

Appliance dealer, yeah. So just heads up on that. And you can always circle back to your appliance person once you get this thing designed so you can get the right size for the interior.

[Suze]

I think there's so many cool things you can do at the hood. The hood is at eye level. The range sometimes is covered up by an island or a couple islands. And so you see it, but it's a little bit more of a discovery before you. There she is. But the hood you see at eye level. And so for design details to not overlook, your hood should look awesome. That will kind of evolve as you understand if a client is. Is a painted kitchen. If they're light, if they're like a deep color, if they like mixed metals, if they, you know, you start to look at their Pinterest boards or your Pinterest boards and try and see. Okay. I consistently love a metal hood, and I want to be a little bit different, but I still want to be classic. I might go deep burnished brass or something. And it's a custom hood. Or understanding what is the thing that's going to make your heart sing. Invest in your hood. It will pay you back in spades.

[Alison]

I want to share an opinion. This is probably going to be polarizing, but I don't think that your cabinet shop should make your hood. I think it's very ugly when your hood is a cabinet.

[Cory]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alison]

It's a wood cabinet that matches your. Your cabinet.

[Cory]

That's funny you say that because I was going to say your cabinet supplier can make your hood. It shouldn't match your appliances. It shouldn't match your cabinetry as well.

[Alison]

It should not.

[Suze]

Okay.

[Alison]

Yeah. And also, I don't love it when the cabinetry is touching it and then the hood just pops forward a little bit and it's all just in line and it's kind of a run on sentence and you completely miss the hood. You want white space surrounding that hood. You want either slab or tile to go up on both sides of it. You want its moment in the sun, you want it to breathe, you want it to sing, you want it to dance. You want to put sconces on both sides of it. This is your moment. Do not let your cabinetry shop build that hood for you or you will lose your moment.

[Suze]

And the few times that we have, we've had to go to extents to make it really interesting as far as to radius the corners and graduate and have certain types of bandings to make the rhythms and things different and interesting and if that makes the most sense for the kitchen. Because sometimes it does.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

But you have to be really clever and very creative. Make it worthwhile. Otherwise a plaster or metal, a different finish. Because you do have so much of that finish of the cabinetry.

[Alison]

Yes.

[Suze]

And wood. You need something new.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

You need to mix it up. That's the ta da.

[Alison]

And it depends on your cabinet shop. Obviously we're very spoiled in that we have fantastic craftsmen here. We probably do have a cabinet maker that can make something that plaster could live over the top of. But if we're talking about semi custom kitchens, they're not touching your hood. Don't let them make your hood. Bid your hood nothing. You're going to do something special.

[Suze]

You don't know how to hate. Don't cut the top of the hood and then leave space for the ceiling.

[Cory]

In between the hood and the ceiling.

[Suze]

Yes.

[Cory]

Yeah.

[Suze]

It's the worst. I'm like, no, you're not fooling anyone. Not venting yet. Anyway. See it every now and again.

[Alison]

It should touch the ceiling.

[Suze]

Do not overlook that. Those things should go to the ceiling. Your cabinetry should go to the ceiling. You know, unless you're like crazy vaulter things. Then we start to get creative. But most people have a lid on their ceiling. Of their kitchen, and it should extend to the top of that. I don't want to, like, dust up there.

[Cory]

I'm going to talk about the ventilation really quick because I think it's something no one thinks about. So depending upon where the kitchen is oriented in your home, if it's, like, kind of the nucleus, like, in the center, or if it's, like, on an exterior wall, that's going to determine how hard it is to vent it out.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Cory]

So if it is in the middle and you're kind of just phoning it in with cabinetry, most likely they're going to give you what's called a recirculating insert. If you go that or hood, and what that's doing is just pulling the air out of the room and then just push it back out, essentially, into that same room, because there's no vent going outside. So if you know yourself and you cook a lot, don't do recirculating. You have to make sure.

[Alison]

Don't bake the salmon. Just don't get that.

[Cory]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Alison]

That fishy smell. Recirculating.

[Cory]

It's going to linger. So, yeah, you have to make sure it's venting out, because I think sometimes people will just throw in a recirculating because it's cheaper and it's easiest, especially if you don't have a plan to vent it outside of the home as it is. So that's just another thing to take note of, to see, you know, what's happening. Because I think sometimes your home will just get designed, and that's a detail you don't know to ask. And so they just make the decision for you.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

If your kitchen is on an outside

[Cory]

wall, it's super easy to back out because you just punch through the wall.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

It's a given that you're gonna do one of those. I guess you can be nervous if it's not on an outside wall.

[Cory]

Exactly.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

In addition to just, like, all the big appliances, when you're designing your kitchen in your cabinetry, make note of all the tabletop appliances. This day and age, we keep buying more of them.

[Alison]

Define the tabletop appliances. Talking about glass.

[Suze]

I'm talking about a KitchenAid. Most people have some type of KitchenAid or Bosch.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

You have a toaster. You have toasters, you have air fryers.

[Cory]

Espresso.

[Suze]

Yep. Blenders. So many different blenders you have. There's just so many little things, and it's really fun to explore. And you're on QVC and everyone's buying it. And you gotta get one too. Anyway, where are you gonna put those? Because it's really annoying.

[Alison]

An air fryer sitting on my countertop right now at home.

[Cory]

Oh, yeah, for.

[Alison]

No wonder my 20 year old said, I need an air fryer. And guess what? It's sitting right next to my stove.

[Suze]

Yeah, they're not.

[Alison]

I should have put it on the floor in my pantry. I don't even want it. I don't want it anywhere.

[Cory]

It's £50. You don't want to lift that out every time you want to do it or that. Yeah, I mean, if you have little kids, you have to have an air fryer.

[Alison]

So, yeah, I buy the air fryer,

[Suze]

put it in the laundry room like me.

[Alison]

Let's tell them our best ideas for tabletop appliances.

[Suze]

Okay. Tabletop appliances. Ideally, that stuff is living in that different pantry, not in the main kitchen. If you're planning and you have the luxury of having that little space behind in the pantry. If I have countertop in the pantry, I'm going to organize that. And if you're like, I don't want to have to take it out. I use it every day. I am going to keep those things available and exposed on that countertop because you're going to get mad at me every time you have to lift a door or pull it out. So understanding, what do you use on the daily. Our client in Boston, they knew that they had certain things that they needed. Their blender, their toaster, their morning bar. And we do morning bars all the time. And they're kind of great guys. And so we kept that in a space where the kids can access it. They can access. Everything's right there so that they don't have to go all the way to that corner of the kitchen. Bring it back over here. They have everything in there. Their toaster, their coffee maker, everything they need to do. And it's right next to the fridge. Fridge. That heat map is right there. Those conveniences are so nice. Again, ideally, we have it in a zone behind closed doors that you can open and do all the things and then shut it down.

[Alison]

I'll talk about my kitchen really quick, please. So I have two towers that live in the corners of each of my kitchen. Ranges in the middle. Windows are in between on the towers, I have cabinetry that comes right down to the countertop. There are doors there. Behind both doors live all my countertop appliances.

[Suze]

Amazing.

[Alison]

Now, I was testing with the cabinet shop, which I would like better so I could pay forward to all the designers and all the Future projects, which I would like. So I want to pay that information forward. So on the left side of my kitchen, it looks like two doors, but I can grab the knobs and pull it up. I don't know what that is on hydraulics or I don't know why. Yeah. And so those doors are all the way out of the way, and I can pull my Bosch or my toaster out onto the countertop. Use it. It's plugged in the back of that cabinet, and then I'm done, and I just push it back and close and close that hydraulic door on the right. I did. Doors that open, and they don't actually pocket back.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

And it's a glory to no one. And I don't like that appliance garage at all. I still have stuff in it, but it's the stuff that I don't use every day because I don't like the mechanism as much. I don't like them actually functioning like cabinet doors. The hydraulic door is the best. It's just up and all the way out of the way because you're using these appliances and pulling them in and out and everything. The toasters in there, I pull that out when I use it. It's a really great system, but it all looks exactly the same.

[Cory]

Like cabinetry, especially because it's in a corner. So in your right hand, when you have to open that, you have to reach around the door that's now sitting in front of you to go and pull something out.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

And imagine it gets dark there. Whenever you have a door that pulls out comes a dark corner. That's kind of nice because with the lift up, you're not sacrificing any width. Nothing with a pocket door on the side. Those are the ones where you open it up and you can pocket it back. We do those a lot. But you kill the width. You're eating a couple inches on each side of that interior width where your appliances could go.

[Alison]

Let's talk about cabinetry drawers.

[Suze]

Okay.

[Alison]

Because pots and pans have to fit in those drawers. And our favorite thing in all kitchen design is just inset cabinetry. So when you have inset cabinetry, you're going to kill some of the height and the depth. So let's give them some best practices.

[Cory]

Inset, by the way, is when the door or the drawer front is flush or in line with the face frame.

[Suze]

Thanks, Cory. But it does eat into the overall width of that drawer. So understanding, again, understanding these stations, you know, a lot of times with your range, we're Going to want to have those pots and pans right nearby. So we're going to have big drawers on each side of the range that are going to facilitate, you know, big pots and pans. And usually you want it symmetrical. So I'll have big pots and pans on one side. I'll have maybe all your kitchen mixing bowls on the other side adjacent to where they need to be adjacent to. But understanding what is your suite of what you cook with most, what are the heights of those? A lot of people are a little bit more. They become shy at the beginning of just what is my aesthetic? Because they're just like, I don't know, but they have an organization folder that trumps all. And so a lot of them have just awesome. As far as your lid storage, I love this. This is how I want my lids to store, because mine always, like, I sort horizontally right now, and they always fall, and I hate it. I want everything to be slotted. I want all those things. So understand functionally, this is your time to implement all those crushes that you've had sitting in your Pinterest board for years, because. And it will make your life easy. But knowing those things for you and your designer, your cabinet maker, we need to know that so we can plan for the drawer space to fit all those things how you want your spices, all those things, they take up room. And when you are figuring out your door heights or your drawer heights for your pots and pans, how many plates are we serving? Are those also sitting in drawers nearby, or are they in upper cabinetry? Right now we're seeing less and less upper cabinetry. We're seeing open cabinetry, like open shelves. I still like open shelves. If my client's down for it and it makes sense for the way they live.

[Alison]

I also love it.

[Suze]

I do, too.

[Alison]

I just came from a project we were shooting, and it's. I don't know what it is. It just feels so elevated. It's almost like the high heels of the kitchen. It's a look that you don't expect. There's plenty of boxes everywhere.

[Suze]

Cabinetry, boxes.

[Cory]

Yeah.

[Alison]

Yeah. There's just so much cabinetry, so you get this relief, but it's still usable storage. And everybody has everyday dishes or pretty dishes or glasses or whatever. It's fun to unload the dishwasher and. And put them on those open shelves. I love it. I. I have open shelves for myself, and I'm not tired of it. I'd put it in a kitchen right now.

[Suze]

I think it's the Same thing that the hood does. Right. It's a different material. It's still all functional, but the chorus of it with the cabinetry is just so.

[Alison]

I think they complement each other so, so beautifully.

[Suze]

So if you are designing those elevations and they can be skinny, you can have two skinny towers flanking your range. And again, that gives the breath to the hood so it's not sandwiched up against more boxes. So I love an open shelf. I love the metal detail that it adds, the glossiness of the glass, usually for the shelves, and the function of it. So understanding everyday dishes, your pots and pans, your flatware, your knives, all those things, you get to figure out where, ideally where all those things get to go. So make sure you are very available for your cabinet maker to be like, I love this insert. Where can I put that? Okay, let's make that drawer wider. Because my husband collects knives or whatever it is. It's so much fun to get it right. So make sure you're paying attention to these things on how you want to cook and how you want to live.

[Cory]

I'm a believer that I think all kitchen drawers should be full extension, meaning that you're going to. When you open the drawer, you see the entire drawer opening. There's not a little bit that's kind of tucked under the face frame. But especially on the drawers with the bigger pots and pans, if you have a huge pan in there and not the entire drawer isn't full extension, getting that out is so tough. You have to, like, sideways and up. Yeah. So full extension, at least on those drawers. So pay attention to that. That's another detail I think, you know, a lot of people pay, you know, sit will offer soft close or not. But I don't think they mention full extension. Yeah. Bring it up. If they don't to you, doors are

[Suze]

going to be more expensive than doors.

[Cory]

Yeah.

[Suze]

Straight up. But they're so much more functional. Doors are, like, hard because even if you do put an insert that has a glide or anything pull out, you're doing two actions when you just need to get to that pot. You have to open up doors, and then you have to pull out the. Pull out to get the stuff.

[Cory]

Yeah. Because then you got to move around that door that you just opened, too.

[Suze]

The rhythm looks prettier, too.

[Alison]

I think so, too. I love a drawer on the bottom stack. Okay, let's talk about pantry storage.

[Suze]

Okay.

[Alison]

I don't have a huge pantry, and so I have pretty shallow shelves in my pantry. And I have to say I've come To absolutely love it. If you have pantry shelves that are the depth of a cabinet, it's actually too deep.

[Suze]

What's the depth of a cabinet? Just 24 inches deep.

[Alison]

So I'll bet you I'm like 14 inches deep in my pantry. What do you like for a pantry shelf?

[Suze]

12 is the very minimum that we'll do for any. As far as storage. It becomes really unfunctional after smaller than 12. 14, I think is a nice sweet spot.

[Alison]

I think so.

[Suze]

18 is usually the depth of your upper cabinet.

[Alison]

So I think inside the pantry though, it can be more shallow than that because otherwise you're losing stuff back there.

[Suze]

Totally.

[Alison]

We all have expired food. It's at the back. I mean, even in my 14 inch deep shelves, I know I've got cans of cream of chicken soup that are expired. I'm sure of it. And black beans. I need to chuck them.

[Suze]

I know.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

So grandma would say that's a suggestion. The expiration date as a suggestion.

[Cory]

That's amazing. We'll crack her open. Let's see. Yeah.

[Alison]

Yeah. I don't know standard wise, but as far as pantries go, I love everything being open.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

Because you're going back there to make decisions. It's almost like you're grocery shopping in your own house and you're trying to survey what you have so that you can figure out what you're going to make. So I know some clients prefer to have all closed storage, but that means they've got to go back there and open every single thing up to make decisions. So I prefer it just being all open. You can use organizers if you want.

[Suze]

Really cute, you know, rolling decanters and all the things.

[Alison]

Yeah, you can do that. I don't do that. I just. I could just keep it really straight and I'm just.

[Suze]

Time for that.

[Alison]

I'm just grocery shopping back there. Yeah. I keep it shallow. I want to see the labels. I want to see the expiration dates.

[Cory]

I think you're more likely to clean it up and more likely to shut a door on it. Yes. 100.

[Suze]

You're more likely going to cook. And I will say if you have the luxury of having a pantry that does have two sides, a lot of times that pantry does house. As far as just back storage, Costco runs sometimes. You can have that behind closed door storage. And that's maybe the side that your eye sees from the kitchen. There's a doorway and then behind you. A lot of times for clients, that's where we'll do the open shelving. If, especially if they don't want to see it. If a door opens back there, keep that behind. So you can still have the open storage.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

To be able to shop from. So but just put it behind you. You guys know I've been talking about the Cozy Earth sheets for a while now. I love them so much. They feel so incredibly luxurious and. And now I finally get that exact same feeling while I'm laying out on the beach or I just go take a shower in my own bathroom. Because now I have their towels.

[Alison]

I have their towels too.

[Suze]

Lucky duck.

[Alison]

I know. I actually have so many of the towels. You know, I'm a visual person so I love the way they look. And I have two etagers full of their white towels. And the hand towels are so gorgeous. But I have to tell you, they're the softest thing I've ever felt. The loops, they're fast drying but they're so comfy and cozy. And I have to say this size is really generous too.

[Suze]

I love that.

[Alison]

And they look gorgeous when they're folded. I'm a huge, huge towel convert to cozier towels. Everybody needs to go get these.

[Suze]

Can I also say the waffle? The waffle towel is also incredibly good.

[Alison]

Yes. You're so right.

[Suze]

Yes. I have the white ones and I love those.

[Alison]

I do. I like the waffle to tie up my hair and then I like to put the plush one around my body.

[Suze]

Girls need options.

[Alison]

They do need options.

[Cory]

Cozy Earth towels are oversized, ultra plush and completely built. For your best summer days, head to cozyearth.com and use our code Dear Alice for an exclusive 20% off. That's code Dear Alice for an exclusive 20 percent off. And if you see a post purchase survey mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here.

[Alison]

I think another cute overlooked design detail on a pantry is we were in Odessa. Their pantry door has a really cute metal grate so over the door. So you can see through the door but you can't really see what's going on. It's just so charming. And then back there it's all open storage so you can kind of conceal and trick the eye and it's super charming.

[Suze]

Most kitchens we have that existing somewhere I think especially right now, two way

[Alison]

door that swings like the diner door Sterling. And that way you can just have your arms full of your Costco big box and just push it with your hip or whatever and get in. You don't need to open it with your hand.

[Suze]

Yeah. There's nothing more frustrating than having a full arm of something and then you realize, oh my gosh, it's a pull in. I'm like, okay, let me set all this stuff down, pull it open, hold it up with a hip and then proceed. So, yeah, do the double swing door for those high traffic areas. I think that's so, so, so helpful.

[Cory]

While we're on the pantry topic, I'm going to say this. If you have a party pantry as an extension of your kitchen as a pantry or just a regular builder grade pantry, when you're building it, remodeling it, consider what appliances you're going to have there and realize you're going to need outlets for them. So where they're going to go, I just have a regular basic pantry, but that's where I like to keep my microwave. To me, the microwave and toaster and all, that's like a. I don't want it on my countertop. So I'd like to get it out of there. So you're going to need, you know, electrical for those or if you have a stick vacuum or something. And that stick vacuum one is going to have to be somewhere up on the wall because it won't plug in down below. So just consider that as well.

[Suze]

The kitchen pantry could extend into mudrooms. I'm thinking of like all the different things that like bleed into this back of house. Functional spaces.

[Cory]

Yeah.

[Suze]

And we have clients that have that. Their pantry area is also hooked up to mudroom. And so we do. We're always gonna give those towers for your Dyson, for your brooms, for the cleanup of all the mess that you make in the kitchen and so understanding that it's gonna belong in the pantry. So that's a. Yeah, that's a great suggestion. I love that. I think when it comes to the color and finishes that you're gonna do for your kitchen, I can look at someone's interest folder real fast or just getting a spill that they're sending me and being like, okay, you, I'm not gonna show you a dark kitchen, a dark moody kitchen, because you, since the year of 2026, you're pinning a white kitchen. You're still dreaming about that, which is so classic. I know we're seeing a lot of color right now, so it's fun to flex that muscle. But there's a lot of clients that just want to keep it white and classic. And so in those, we're always trying to think again. The materiality of differentiating things, the metal hood, the floating shelves, those things to make it more interesting, I think is what's Going to give that kitchen more character. If you are a white kitchen, sometimes you're going to be white everywhere and then you're going to change the island. We have a lot of projects that we do this with. Again, it kind of depends on the personality of the client. But this is a way to get a lot of personality in a kitchen by changing up the finish. Be it. We're not usually going paint paint. It's usually paint. And then we're going to a stain grade like we did in like tiger oak.

[Cory]

Yeah.

[Suze]

For example, we did this here where we had this almost the perimeter was supposed to feel just kind of like this putty kitchen that's existed forever. And then we did the stain grade. Beautiful. Two islands in this beautiful stain grade. And then as time went on, homegirl collected a lot of really great depression wear and things like that. And so he created an amazing as far as this painted high gloss green with this fuchsia interior to display all that and to panel the fridge and freezer.

[Alison]

So it read like a china cabinet.

[Suze]

Yes.

[Alison]

With an integrated refrigerator that had all her depression wear surrounding it. It's such a great solution.

[Suze]

It worked really well because we did the storytelling on it of just this was existing here and then this was added on and then they later did this thing and it told this really historic story. Even in the hardware in the countertop edges. All those things were selected very deliberately to tell that story.

[Cory]

One thing I love about paint grade cabinet, wall cabinet and then a stain grade island is it feels like the island was brought in from somewhere else. You just got this antique island and then that's happen to be like where it lives rather than built in from everything else. So feels found, which is cool.

[Alison]

Another thing that we love is the butcher block with the island connected onto the island. I love the depth of the butcher block. You're at least a full foot down from the countertop, starting at countertop height. And then you could set out charcuterie on it. You could chop on it, you could roll pie crust out on it. You could make sugar cookies on it. It just screams I really use my kitchen. I love the story of that.

[Suze]

So fun. I remember when I first went to Christopher Peacock showroom and I was looking at details and you're opening up all the cabinetry doors and you're seeing how they specialize in kitchens. That's their bread and butter. And so even in their butcher block they have this sliver. What is that for? Oh, that's where you put your knives and it's Magnetic. And anyway, they just thought of so many cool things. So the guys, there's so much opportunity. But the butcher block, you've never been taken more seriously as a great chef.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

If you don't have a butcher block, and I will say too, it's a really nice break again for just like changing the material. We get a lot of really long islands that something's got to give. If I have 15ft of just countertop, that is a run on sentence also. That's too big for your island. I don't like bigger than a ten foot island. And a ten foot island that's still really robust. But try not to go over that. And if you do, you're definitely employing.

[Alison]

Yeah, you're going to break it up.

[Suze]

The butcher block.

[Alison]

Yeah. It adds interest. After the stretch limousine, I will say it's expensive too.

[Cory]

Yeah.

[Suze]

When you're talking slabs and just all these things, it just adds up. So again, if you're feeding the thousand every weekend go, you get the long buffet, but it's costly, it's countertops. All those things just add up.

[Cory]

Find a specialty kitchen showroom too in your area because then you can go and find the cool things that you may not even know that you want. One of the details that you guys put in Tiger Oak there, I remember is like in the butcher block countertops, there's two islands on the more prep island. That's where the garbage cans were. And there was a hole in the butcher block. So as you're like chopping stuff, you can just slide things through the hole into the garbage. So you don't have to have that out and be, you know, sliding into your hand and putting in the garbage or working around the garbage being open. So there's just all these little details that I think the more you investigate and go out there, see what's available, you'll know what you want to have in your own home.

[Suze]

There's so many cool things. When you do want to hide your appliances and maybe let's talk about that a little bit. Just like for cabinetry front, I don't want to see the stainless steel of a fridge. I want a paneled front fridge. Even in a contemporary space, I want the it to be more continuous. I'm not going to want it to stop my eye and see that there's an appliance. I want to know that it's all just been integrated into that panel front cabinetry finish.

[Cory]

That's where the art comes in, I feel like. And this is depending upon the size of Your kitchen, the orientation, the layout. There's an art to know when to break things up and when to not. You really have to study that. I mean, that's probably, in my opinion, number one reason to hire a designer because they're going to be able to distinguish that best for you. But if you're doing it yourself, definitely put in the hours, understand the win and when not to break things up. And don't just do it just for the heck of it.

[Alison]

I'll say something controversial. I love panel ready fridge. I love having that disappear into all the cabinetry. I have heard the most complaints from clients about the panel ready dishwasher because the steam ruins the cabinetry front. So because my dishwasher is oriented next to my sink, I only have one island, I don't have two. And my dishwasher faces my oven, so you can't see it when you walk into the kitchen. You have to be sandwiched between the stove and the sink to be able to see that elevation of it. I just did a stainless fridge and I didn't do a panel ready one because I was like, I just did stainless dishwasher. I was like, the idea of something failing just drove me crazy. Just knowing I'd be replacing that every day, six or seven years or whatever,

[Cory]

or dealing with it kind of flopping off of the thing and all the finished.

[Alison]

And I knew that I was hiding my microwave as well. Those handles matched. I knew my oven was also stainless steel from the same suite. They all had the same handles. I was like, I'm just gonna let that guy be stainless. So I invested big on my fridge fronts, but on everything else, mostly because of my orientation, my kitchen, I just stuck with the stainless dishwasher.

[Cory]

So hide it where you can. That was another good point about the microwave too.

[Suze]

You.

[Cory]

The microwave should never be in an upper.

[Alison]

Never. It should always be in a lower. Yes, yes.

[Cory]

Or hidden inside of a cabinet somewhere. We were talking about in your pantry.

[Suze]

The drawers are great.

[Alison]

Microwaves.

[Suze]

Yeah. Majority of clients, that's what we're doing. We're doing a microwave drawer.

[Cory]

They're not hoods either. I don't care if you're in starter home or.

[Alison]

Oh my gosh, you're right. They will put the microwave above the stove.

[Cory]

Yeah. That's the worst thing to walk into, in my opinion. That's the opposite of a good looking hood.

[Suze]

Especially like when you're ready to throw down and invest in a new kitchen. And you have that. Because I have it.

[Cory]

Oh, yeah.

[Suze]

Anyway. But that's the first thing. This guts to go.

[Cory]

Yeah, it's probably the first thing you see when you walk into your kitchen. You're just like, ah, damn you.

[Suze]

I know. Damn you.

[Cory]

Yeah, exactly.

[Suze]

You guys, countertops are so much fun. I've said this before on the podcast, when we have started with something exciting, and then the clients, oh, let's just go to a Chaldea. You're like, fine, that's. We can do it. They've regretted it. They regretted not going for the more exciting countertop because especially if you're integrating not only on your counters, but usually there's some portion of it that's potentially going on to your backsplash. So again, just the hood that is at eye level. You want to see that and you want it all. Slabs are going to be expensive, but looking at something fantastic pays you back. Every time you look at it, it

[Alison]

feels expensive, it feels exotic. Nobody else has it. You're the only one. And you feel like you're in Europe. It's otherworldly. If you don't phone it in and get something that's white and gray.

[Suze]

I love a Calcutta Monet. I love it. I love. A lot of people still just want kind of that white field. But when you do a white field, the background of a slab, you're going to want to make sure that your veining is interesting. If you don't like a lot of color, you can do something. You know, there's arabescato, there's Calcutta golds. There's those things when you get into the Monet and when you get into some certain vaglies and things like that, there's so much more interesting. And there's hue there, there's color that's kicking back. And so often we'll go slab shopping, which also is another date that y' all are going to go on. And it's so much fun. It is God's art gallery. It's the best time. You're going to go and just take pictures of everything that makes you stop. And we've switched, we've designed kitchens. And then we go slab shopping a little backwards. And then we end up switching things in the kitchen because the slab dictates so much of the color.

[Cory]

And you can pick out the slab.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Cory]

Not, hey, this is the type of stone that I like. It's like, I want that one. It's an organic material, so they're all going to kind of look a little bit different. Same type of properties. But, yeah, to me, I didn't think that was going to be as fun of a time going picking out slabs and we were just like running around, hey, that one, this one's cool.

[Suze]

I know It's a long term relationship too, so it really is. You are falling in love and you're going to take that one home and it is so much fun. And so don't be shy with your slab. Be bold. And there's. We're like, what are your favorite slabs? I'm like, some of my favorite slabs are so unique that like, like they. We were out in Texas and I'm like, I can't even tell you the names of all those because they were all so special in this unicorn of a slab yard. Go look for those. Go find something interesting. And there's so many different like as far as functions, you have marbles, you have court sites, you do have quartz, but we avoid those. I don't like using them. No. And I know people are like, oh, it's good with kids. All of it's good with kids. And to all those that are afraid of using a marble, just live with living finishes.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

And the more you live with it, the more it will just feel patinaed and good and natural and have a, you know, a soul in your house. So yeah, I love a natural material. I love a marble. It's more fluid than a quartzite. Quartzite is still artistic but it's a little bit more sketchy and the lines are just a little bit more rigid. So if you're a fluid person, you're a marble. If you like things a little bit more sometimes linear or a little bit straight with little etchings and things. Quartzites are awesome. It's a great. If you are nervous about a marble and spilling Quartzites for you, great.

[Alison]

Preach. Let's tell them about their edge details on the countertop.

[Suze]

You guys are living in such a great day and age where we're doing so many cool things with this. I think for so long it was an eased off. It was an eased off edge which is just a squared, just squared flat edge with the ease it on the corners just so it's not sharp and you know isn't gonna cut you.

[Alison]

We're not doing that anymore.

[Suze]

We're not doing that anymore.

[Alison]

There's better options.

[Suze]

There's so many options. And I feel like the first time I saw started seeing that come back is when we did this elongated ogee edge on tiger oak, which is awesome. And there's several different types of OG edges you can do. I love a bullnose and what I love even more is a double bullnose double bull nose, double I double bull nose in my primary bath vanity, which I love. And that was a thicker one. But even the thinner ones, even if you're doing a 2cm double bullnose, stop it. It's so, so cool. Gosh, I have a whole Pinterest folder full of these. It really does. I'm like, you guys have to give the fabricator an edge detail anyway. Like. And he'll be like, what edge detail do you want? It's not going to necessarily cost you more. Don't phone it in than this. So find the one that you like. And again, it's just going to thank you for all the days of your life that you're living in that kitchen. And for the next homeowner, if you're going to sell it, that'll be a memory point of something special. So don't phone that in.

[Alison]

Backsplashes, okay?

[Suze]

Another reason why it's so great to be alive today is that we're. We're doing cool backsplashes using tile, which I love. You know, yourself if you're a slab or if you're a tile. And I think we're get. We're starting to pull more people into the tile land because there's so many cool things that you can do. A lot of times we're integrating both, like I said, sometimes. So we had. We have a home that we did down a cabin down in Cedar City, and it's so beautiful because we did slab going up behind shoes. I like the ease of cleaning behind the stove. We're going to just have a slab. But then you. We got to a certain point and we're like, we want to have a continuation of material, you know, that feels culinary. And so we're like, we should just keep tiling. Let's have a clean break where it makes sense. And then we're going to tie all the way to the ceiling and make sure that talks to what we're doing on the ceiling, which was a tongue and groove stain. It's so neat when you can combine materials like that. And it just adds rhythm, adds interest, adds color to a space that is beautiful, but could go boring. And if you're not boring, you're gonna love tile. And I would say just don't do just. You can whatever. You can do a straight stack or a bricklay or something, that's fine. But there's so many cool things when you find the tile that you love. Understand what other Sizes that color comes in, because it might come in a 4x4 and then it might come in a 2 by 4 or 2 by 6. And so at that point, when I'm like, ah, dope. I'm going to actually run some soldier stacks here. Does it have a liner? Awesome. Okay. It doesn't. I'm going to use a metal liner, you know, and I'm going to start to intersect lines where it's happening in windows where my cabinets are starting and stopping. You can get some really cool things going on when people come into your house. And when you get to live in it, you're going to be like, ashton, artist lives here. This is so special. And I think those are the details that set a standard kitchen apart from something memorable. So don't phone in your back flash. Really do some research to understand what you are. We love to use a tile that does feel like it's has some modeling or undulation. I don't like it when it's flat. I don't like it when it's not glossy. I don't like a matte.

[Alison]

You like it when the glaze pools in the different little high and low spots because you can tell it's artisan. And then when you do have the whole wall of it, each tile is individual, even though it's in the same colorway. You get some dark, some highs, some lows, and you're like. Like an artist made these tiles. And they are handmade, and I think they call them zellage tiles. Yeah. Anyway, anything in that category that's been hand glazed makes for the most dreamy backsplashes or bathrooms. Yeah. And I love that tile is back.

[Cory]

Should we do lighting?

[Suze]

Let's do lighting. This is a big thing that I think with most clients, we go several rounds because this is, again, it's like finding someone, you know, your forever companion who's gonna live with me and bask light onto the surface that I'm at doing all my chores every day. And so usually over the kitchen island, and on a lot of kitchens, you might have two islands. And so it's just. Do I do pendants over both of them? Do I do it over one? You kind of want to understand what's happening on those islands. But those pendants, they do become such a personality trait of the kitchen.

[Alison]

They're the jewelry.

[Suze]

I think one of my favorite pendant tricks that we've done recently is we've done really large ones for some of these really voluminous, robust kitchens. But we did recently some lighting From Sone, which is a UK based company in our Desert Oaks project in Odessa. And the diameter on them wasn't huge. They were a little bit smaller for most people, they're not massive. The diameter was a little bit more humble. But when they were installed, they had. But they had the best chain and the best details and things. And so when I was there, when the builder was installing it and he had them up too high and I'm like, no, those are meant to hover. If they are a smaller pendant, you want them to. Our usual dimension is about 38 to 42 from the countertop to the bottom of that pendant. These ones I wanted to cover a little bit more in that 34, 36. So almost not like a heat lamp, but just a real focused energy so that that pendant was at eye level and you really got to see the details.

[Alison]

Good. Yeah. It felt designer because you broke the rules on it. But I think because there's four chains that are all really strong dominant features and because the are hung on the corners of this piece, it's actually an optical illusion. It looks like you have two different types of chains, but it's just because of the angle in which you're looking at it. There's such jewelry pieces. I love the height so much on these. Really good. But I agree, your kitchen pendants are a huge fashion piece in the kitchen. They're usually hanging out right in front of that hood and your stove is behind it that you just spent a wat on. So that whole moment is your photo shoot moment. And it's really worth going the extra distance to find something that's unique because so many designers and people are kind of pulling from the same resources. And your kitchens can start to look the same if you're using the same pendants as everybody else does. So I would say search far and wide for those. It's really worth it. The other point of light that we're going to do is we're going to do cans. Still, I know cans are controversial. You do need cans in the kitchen, especially if you're cooking or cleaning.

[Suze]

Cleaning.

[Alison]

And right now we're loving a two inch can. Yeah, yeah. Do you want to speak to that a little bit?

[Suze]

Yeah. The standard cans was, I think it was like a 5 inch can. And that's the one that most builders, if they're not really paying attention to

[Cory]

the details or even six inch.

[Alison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Suze]

Yuck. Okay. So they'll have this big wide can. We're not using those. I just want that to feel like A pinpoint son. So you're really going to be working with a lighting engineer while you're working on this. Because the 2 inch. I love the look of it. But you just have to make sure how tall your ceilings are. Will determine if that will work best because of the actual beam spread that will give. I try and just go as small as I can.

[Alison]

It looks really custom and very designer. Let's talk about the mono point. I love this trick too. But I feel like you need a lower ceiling.

[Suze]

I feel like that's more up than nine at the most.

[Alison]

A nine foot.

[Suze]

Yeah. Eight foot ceilings. But if you are living in some. An old historic or something and you're sitting with eight foot ceilings, this is a place for you to show off. I love a monopoint because then they have some ones that just like where the. And what I mean when I'm talking monopoint is again, it's only a 3, 4 inch wide, tall, cylindrical. Yeah, Cylindrical fixture.

[Alison]

Usually made of brass or bronze or you can get a nickel.

[Suze]

They have just actual cylinder and then the light just cast down. They do have some that are adjustable. Oh. As far as. Which is nice. Especially in a functional kitchen area because then you can really dedicate it to where you need light. So no that's available. And it's a cool design.

[Alison]

If you have an eight foot ceiling, you're gonna probably use these instead of pendants.

[Suze]

Yeah.

[Alison]

And it's going to be this sort of modern industrial vibe. And it's really cool. On a historic space or you know your style if it's for you or not. But I've been loving seeing people employ the monopointe. Yeah. Very cool. Also a little detail we love is a third layer of light in the kitchen. And this is your baby lamp. We love this. Under a backsplash in my own kitchen, I have the Rocco lamp underneath my backsplash with a couple of teak boards. Love this. It's got a helmet made of alabaster. The body is brass. It's very cool. It has a retro feel to it. And I even have one of our penny lamps up on my floating shelf at night. The Rocco and the Penny are always on. They're like night lights in the kitchen. So if anybody does stumble into the kitchen at night needs a glass of water or something, it's not ever a pitch black room. And it's charming.

[Suze]

I know. And even if you're not going through a full remodel right now or building a new kitchen, I put Athena in mine and they'll like viola.

[Alison]

Yes.

[Suze]

And I'm like, who am I? Like, as far as you're gonna. You're gonna help me hold on until I'm, like, ready to throw down and get rid of this place, right?

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

So anyway, employ that immediately, regardless of what you're doing. Also, sconces. I do love a sconce. Guys usually, like, when you're employing sconces, it'll just be. You'll have your range. And then on that wall is usually where we'll employ sconces. So depending on your floating shelves or what you have, it's really fun to just have those. It's almost like studs, you know, on that whole scene.

[Alison]

And it's really cool, unexpected, fantastic detail.

[Cory]

If you're going to do that. I saw this on Instagram yesterday. Linen shade, sconce next to the hood. Yeah, don't do that. You're begging to just have to get new shades or replace those sconces.

[Alison]

You do have to know what kind of sconce to use in a kitchen. And it's nothing with a shade.

[Cory]

Yes.

[Suze]

It's wipeable a lot of times, too. It's like ambience either alabaster, it's metal. It's something that you can wipe down.

[Alison]

Mercury, glass.

[Suze]

And it really, a lot of times, too. It's just showing off what's happening behind it.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Suze]

You know, so it's giving a cast, but it doesn't have to be bright, direct light real fast. I'm going to say something with plumbing for your main kitchens and your sink and your pot filler and those things. We like polish nickel. I know people are going to be like, oh, let's do a gold. Save it for a powder. You know, in the space where you have so many metals dancing together, just do polish nickel for the utility pieces. When you get to your actual hardware, your poles, your knobs, then do a gold. It's so much fun. And that's the jewelry, the lighting and the hardware are the joy.

[Alison]

Yes. Yes, you're so right, Sue. I love that. I love a polished nickel. And should we just tell them our very favorite. This is not sponsored but Waterstone.

[Suze]

You should sponsor this.

[Alison]

I've got a Waterstone faucet in my own house. Whatever. 10, 11 years ago, it's still my favorite faucet. It's so beautiful. We have one in the showroom. We put them in a lot of our projects.

[Suze]

Every project, I feel like that's the one that we propose every time because we love it.

[Alison]

Look at the little air Switch. You can get the little mini faucet version of it for your hot water. It's. And the finishes are so gorgeous. Yeah.

[Suze]

They're so, so.

[Alison]

Yeah. So there's a real fast track for you. Disneyland fast pass.

[Suze]

I know.

[Alison]

Let's talk about our favorite hardware.

[Suze]

I love egg dog. And I love an eggnog.

[Alison]

We occasionally will use poles. We love a huge appliance. Poles. And you only have to buy a few of those. But you're going to throw down when you do it. You're not going to get the cheap ones. Repeat after me. You're not going to get the cheap ones. You're going to get the really expensive ones to open your refrigerator with. Because you're going to be touching these every single day, all the time.

[Cory]

Well. And you get what you pay for with them. So when you have to. To use both hands, you're pulling that fridge open. That's only going to last so long.

[Suze]

And you got a sub Z. You threw down. You got a sub Z. And that thing has some suction. So you're gonna have to really get something that's mighty. Yeah. Open some of my favorite hardware lines. I do. I love our Mac. Martin. If you were just ridiculous. You're ridiculous. And you love to spend money.

[Alison]

Yes.

[Suze]

It's so good.

[Cory]

Spell armac for the Mac.

[Suze]

A R, M A C. Okay. Martin is M A R, T I N. Beautiful. And it's so beautiful. Their finishes are amazing. I love that we use classic brass a lot. It's all brass. There's so many great finishes. You thought there was only one gold. They have 10 to 20. I feel every time I'm just like, which gold will I choose today? That's going to get along with my light fixture. Because all golds don't get along. So when you are trying. If you're like, I love a gold, try and find one that has multiple golds wherever you're shopping. Just because. And what other things are gold that it needs to speak well too? And it's not going to clash because some will go green, some will go yellow, some will go orange. So you gotta understand where your golds are sitting. That's a big discussion.

[Cory]

And then maybe buy samples of them. So when you're looking for other pieces, you can kind of make sure that they do play well together.

[Suze]

Yeah. And when you're designing your hood, you know what kind of gold be like. This is the gold I want you to match. Because this is my hardware.

[Cory]

Yeah.

[Suze]

So they can understand the whole suite.

[Alison]

Yeah. I think A great party trick for hardware is getting the back plate that the knob will sit on top of. You can do that with the appliance pole. You can do that with any pole. Nothing. All of the poles, nothing looks more grounded, expensive, integrated. It's like the monogram of the linen

[Suze]

shirt or the rug for this cabinet.

[Alison]

It is, it is so, so chic. I love that look. It feels historic.

[Suze]

It does, yeah.

[Alison]

So do that. Get yourself back.

[Suze]

Like a cuff bracelet for those cute little knobs.

[Alison]

Yes. I feel like I need to redo my hardware just to get grounding back plates.

[Suze]

I know a new line that just came out that I've been impressed is it's called traditions and it's out of Utah, actually. But their gold is really good and their price points, awesome. So look those guys up. I think that's a hot take.

[Cory]

A win win.

[Suze]

So.

[Alison]

And if you want to throw down old school Rocky Mountain hardware.

[Suze]

Yeah, they're the bomb.

[Alison]

Really good. Very expensive. You're spend over $100 a knob, but it's. It looks like it.

[Suze]

Yeah. Exactly.

[Alison]

Fantastic.

[Suze]

Exactly.

[Alison]

Before we end just with flooring, nine times out of ten, we're going to do a wood in a kitchen. The pantry is usually going to be tile. That's your little accessory moment. So that's just kind of a best practice for us. Wood's comfortable. It's easy on your joints. You're going to be standing here for a long time. If you do want to do a marble floor in the kitchen, you're going to love it. It's beautiful. We love that too. We just thought we would say the most popular thing that we're, that we're designing today is just keeping that hardwood floor running into the adjacent.

[Suze]

Usually some type of living room or great room or something. So that's why you just stay with the wood. It's easy on the joints.

[Alison]

Yep. Guys, that was overlooked design details for the kitchen.

[Cory]

That was a heavy lift.

[Alison]

I hope that was helpful to you if you're getting ready to embark on a kitchen or if you're a design, you're doing kitchens all the time. Hopefully some of that information was really valuable. But that's our best of album for kitchens right now. If you guys want to be an insider, you should be because you listen to the podcast. This is where we have all of our product launches upand cominging. Our insiders is the best way to get easy access to new arrivals, special perks, and curated design insights you're not going to find anywhere else. So you can sign up to be an [e-mail] yeah, get on the VIP list, guys.

[Suze]

Be an insider.

[Alison]

Yes, definitely. Sign [e-mail] and if you're loving the podcast, be sure and click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, leave us a review. We love them. We sit and read them. And if you guys have any questions, please send them to Dear Alice alice lanehome.com A lot of times when we're writing episodes, we go to that first to see what we can answer for you. Sometimes it inspires an entire episode. So Again, dear Alice alisonhome.com we'd love to hear from you. Be sure and give us a follow at Alice Lane Home and Alice Lane Interiors if you want to see some of the behind the scenes on the projects that we're working on. Thanks so much for tuning in, you guys. We'll catch you next time.

[Suze]

Sat.