Becoming a Male Lion with Haley Lu Richardson

Summary

Dear Chelsea – "Becoming a Male Lion with Haley Lu Richardson"

Date: November 6, 2025
Host: Chelsea Handler (with Katherine Law)
Guest: Haley Lu Richardson

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Episode Overview

In this lively and heartfelt episode, comedian and advice power-house Chelsea Handler welcomes actor and writer Haley Lu Richardson for a candid, witty, and deeply relatable conversation. The main theme of the episode centers around navigating growth, heartbreak, womanhood, independence, and self-discovery, all peppered with playful humor and self-reflection. Together with co-host Katherine Law, they offer sincere advice to listeners facing challenges in relationships and dating, while digging deep into what it means to become empowered – or, as Chelsea dubs it, "becoming a male lion."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chelsea’s Las Vegas Story: Gambling and Karma

[04:15 – 06:07]

• Chelsea shares her post-Vegas show antics, recounting how she gifted her gambling money to friends, lost it all, then borrowed $1,000 from a stranger to win it back.
• Reflects on being content with breaking even and the value of gratitude:

  "That's what women can teach men. To not be so avaricious. To just be happy with what you have and be grateful." – Chelsea ([05:46])

• The conversation segues into the necessity of practicing gratitude even when it's hard.

2. Introducing Haley Lu Richardson

[06:13 – 07:12]

• Katherine and Chelsea gush about Haley, with affectionate ribbing about her choice to live in Arizona.
• Chelsea spotlights Haley's book "I'm Sad and Horny" and her knack for raising group spirits.

3. Managing Moods & Self-Care Rituals

[07:16 – 09:02]

• Chelsea and Haley discuss how to handle negative moods:
  • Chelsea: "If I'm in that state, I just have to numb out because otherwise I become, like, hysterical."
  • Haley shares that crafts like beading and crocheting serve as her own creative Xanax.

4. Reading from "I'm Sad and Horny"

[10:00 – 10:26]

• Chelsea reads Haley’s poem “New Place Alone in South Africa,” a meditation on breakups and being alone.

  "To be alone in South Africa is better than being lonely with you." – read by Chelsea, written by Haley ([10:20])

5. On the Value of Being Alone & Transitioning into Womanhood

[11:02 – 12:31]

• Haley and Katherine discuss the fear of being alone, emphasizing it’s better than loneliness within a relationship.
• Chelsea and Haley muse on what it means to feel like a “woman,” a “lioness” – and then, in Chelsea's words, “actually, I feel like a male lion.”

  "I didn't really feel like a woman until I turned 50 this year." – Chelsea ([12:03])
  "I'm excited to feel like a male lion." – Haley ([12:14])

6. Organic Deodorant & Accepting Imperfections

[13:14 – 14:07]

• A comic detour on Haley’s sweaty armpits leads to talk about organic deodorant, with the group agreeing to “accept the world as it is.”

7. Processing Breakups: Reflection, Journaling, & Growth

[14:07 – 18:21]

• Haley details her experience moving beyond a pivotal 7-year relationship:

  "All I saw in my life was just this person for the rest of it… I never even went to the place where I would be like, but what if it doesn't work?" ([14:28])

• Journaling as a healing tool: Haley’s ritual includes reading old journals and ritually destroying them for closure.
• Growth isn’t linear—insight emerges years later.

8. Handling Heartbreak: Taking Responsibility for Healing

[18:21 – 21:33]

• Chelsea reframes heartbreak, underscoring the importance of restoring one’s energy and not blaming exes.
• Haley introduces the idea of compassion for even the “shittiest people,” recognizing everyone’s doing their best in their circumstances.

9. The Drama Triangle & Codependence vs. Interdependence

[27:16 – 31:18]

• Haley introduces the “drama triangle” (bully, victim, rescuer) and the importance of getting off it for healthier relationships.
• Clear distinctions between codependence (needy, self-sacrificing) and interdependence (healthily relying on each other).

10. Books and Pop Culture: Fantasy, Crafting, and the Jonas Brothers

[21:37 – 36:54, 31:18 – 35:54]

• Book talk: Haley gushes about fantasy author Brandon Sanderson.
• Haley’s love for Disney World and the Jonas Brothers, recounting her experience dancing in their music video and her fangirl moments.

11. Writing, Poetry, and Taylor Swift

[36:54 – 41:09]

• Chelsea draws parallels between Haley’s poetic writing and Taylor Swift’s lyricism.
• Discussion on the impact of good parenting, noting both Haley and Taylor Swift’s stable upbringings as the foundation for their current resilience and creativity.

12. Parenting & Sacrifice

[42:24 – 43:21]

• Haley reflects on her parents’ rare dedication:

  "The sacrifice my parents made to, like, let me leave high school at 16 and move to LA... they sacrificed and like made it possible for me, which I do think is rare." ([42:28])

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Listener Advice Calls

1. Bri, 37: Navigating Breakup, Workplace Crush, & Letting Go

[46:46 – 57:17]

• Bri describes ending a long-term relationship, emotionally transitioning to a coworker (Bryce), but struggling as Bryce pulls away.
• Chelsea’s advice:

  "You have to embrace your womanhood... You are so powerful. If you want this to happen with this guy at work, it can happen. But respect the fact that you just got out of something and going straight into something isn't really going to be the most valuable lesson." ([53:37])

• Haley commends Bri’s self-awareness and self-control, encouraging her to view her restraint as “impressive [and] honorable.”
• Both hosts advise letting guilt be a lesson, but not a burden.

2. Lauren, 33: Therapist Seeking Love in a New City

[58:28 – 65:38]

• Lauren, a therapist, is moving to Madison, WI, to improve her dating prospects. She asks for advice on meeting singles in a new city.
• Chelsea prescribes mingling through co-ed activities:

  "Join all sorts of clubs you don't give a shit about... tennis, biking, kayaking. All of those are going to yield both sexes. So you're going to meet friends and you're going to [meet men]." ([59:44])

• Both Chelsea and Haley swear by boldness – complimenting strangers, taking risks, and putting oneself forward.
• Haley, also single, humorously shares her own DM-sliding stories and her resolve to "hold on to hope and not become bitter."
• Katherine relays a family anecdote about dating as a job, rotating through first-date outfits.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chelsea on heartbreak:

  "You have to pick yourself back up... It's not about other people coming in to save you, it's about you saving yourself." ([18:38])

• Haley on growth:

  "The journey of the heartbreak is so nonlinear... but it's nice to see... there's been a growth." ([17:15])

• Haley on parental support:

  "My parents always believed in me... and made this life that I live possible. I do think it's rare." ([42:28])

• Chelsea on risk and regret:

  "The only thing I think I regret in my life is not actually being as bold as people think I am with regard to meeting guys." ([61:26])

• Haley’s humor:

  "I'm enjoying myself. And also so is your vibrator. I have multiple besties these days. Different shapes for different moods. Love them all equally." ([71:31])

• Chelsea’s rallying cry:

  "Women are stronger than men. And that's not sexist, it's true." ([53:37])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Vegas, Gratitude, and Being a Woman – [04:15–06:12]
• Introducing Haley and Book Discussion – [06:13–10:26]
• Book Reading: “South Africa” Poem – [10:00–10:26]
• Breakups, Journaling, and Growth – [14:07–18:21]
• Self-Reliance & Healing – [18:38–21:33]
• Drama Triangle and Relationship Patterns – [27:16–31:18]
• Jonas Brothers/Fangirl Chat – [31:18–35:54]
• Taylor Swift, Family, and Resilience – [36:54–41:09]
• Listener Call: Bri on Coworker Crush – [46:46–57:17]
• Listener Call: Lauren on Dating New City – [58:28–65:38]
• Haley’s Boldness in Dating & Advice Wrap-Up – [65:39–71:50]

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Episode Tone & Style

The episode’s signature is conversational, irreverent, and honest, with Chelsea’s trademark blunt compassion and playful sarcasm. Haley’s openness, self-deprecating humor, and thoughtful introspection complement Chelsea’s energy, making for a dialogue that is both therapeutic and fun. Both hosts encourage vulnerability, action, and self-love – and they never shy away from sharing their flaws and learnings.

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Final Thoughts

"Becoming a Male Lion" isn’t just a metaphor but a manifesto for reclaiming personal power, whether in heartbreak, career, or the search for love. The episode brims with permission to feel, to try, to fail, and to laugh about it all, leaving listeners with both practical advice and a sense of hopeful camaraderie.

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Haley’s book "I’m Sad and Horny" is out now.
Chelsea’s High and Mighty Tour tickets on sale.

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[For full transcripts and video episodes, find Dear Chelsea on YouTube or visit chelseahandler.com]

Transcript

[Katherine]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

Each side of the bed independently.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

Hello, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Handler]

I am fresh off of Vegas. I came in a car service. I was supposed to. My flight was redirected.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Did you drive here?

[Chelsea Handler]

No, no, I did not drive here. I was in Vegas. I forgot to leave Vegas immediately after my show. So I went to go see Alanis last night.

[Katherine]

Very fun.

[Chelsea Handler]

So, yes, so I went to Vegas for my show, my residency. I do what I do every time I have my show. I had like, you know, 15 friends came out. We go and we gamble. I supply the money for everyone to gamble. Everyone lost my money? No, every single person lost, myself included. And I was like, you guys are bad juju. Like, whatever, fine, it's no problem. That's that that money was there to lose, that I have an allotment that I never spend over. I only take out $2,500 and I give it to everyone and then I don't ever take out more. So then the next night we went to see Alanis and right as soon as the show was wrapping, they all wanted to go out. And I say I have to go win back the money. You Guys, all lost of mine.

[Caller Bri]

Hey, go have fun.

[Chelsea Handler]

So I went. I had no money left because it was gone. So I sat down at a table and looked at the guy next to me and said, I need to borrow $1,000 and I will pay you right back. And he was like, sure. And I won. And I won right away. I paid him back his thousand, and then I won my 3,000 back. And as soon as I did, I went upstairs and went to sleep.

[Katherine]

I gotta say, you just, like, decide you're gonna win your money back, and then it happens. Like, I've seen it in action.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know. I like it. It's karmically. Cause I'm not being greedy. I just want everyone to have a good time. And I wanna break even.

[Katherine]

Yes, Break even.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's what women can teach men. To not be so avaricious. To just be happy with what you have and be grateful.

[Katherine]

Exactly.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

And then.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's not true. I'm not grateful. I mean. You know what I mean? I am grateful, but I'm not grateful enough for all the things I have. I have to remind myself to be grateful.

[Katherine]

That's why you have the gratitude journal.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Gratitude, gratitude, gratitude, gratitude. Just keep saying it. Say it all day long.

[Katherine]

Well, I'm grateful for our guest today. She's very cute.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God, she's the cutest. I love her.

[Katherine]

She really, like, raised our spirits.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

She.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes. Yes. This is such a fun interview. She.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

For.

[Chelsea Handler]

You'll know from the White Lotus, probably. And she's in a lot of other stuff, but that's how I was introduced to her. And she's just a little buttercup. And, I mean, she's now living in Arizona, so that's the only questionable decision of hers that I have a problem with. But no offense to Arizona, but there's no reason to live there, you know? And she has a cute book called I'm Sad and Horny, which is a great title. So. Yes. Welcome. Hailey Lou Richardson. Hi, Hayley. Lou.

[Katherine]

Hi.

[Chelsea Handler]

How are you? I'm a breath of fresh air.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

That's nice.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's what you are, a breath of fresh air.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Okay. Imagine if someone's just like, how are you today? And you're like, I'm a breath of fresh air. But it's nice to hear. Thanks.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. Hi.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do you feel like a breath of fresh air?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Sometimes I'm trying to think if I feel that way today.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think you have to feel that.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Way today because I think I'm a breath of air.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I don't know if it's fresh today. It's like I'm breathing. So.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, sometimes, you know, when I'm walking through the world, I feel like I can definitely lift other people up. You know what I mean? Like, some. There are days where I'm like, oh, I can. There are days where I'm like, oh, I can infuse that person, like, even a stranger, with, like, happiness and just spread joy. And then when I'm in a shitty mood or a bad mood, I'm like, I hope no one makes eye contact with me and catches what I'm traveling around with.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

You know what I mean? I want to spread the bad.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It's like, the best thing you can do on those types of days is not spread whatever negativity you have, like.

[Katherine]

Maybe just hermit at home.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. Just like. Just like. Yeah.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Stay at home.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. That's what I do. Usually it involves a Xanax and an edible. I like to pair those two things together just to, like, take it down. And so that way I'm almost. I have to numb out. Like, if I'm in that state, I just have to numb out because otherwise I become, like, hysterical.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I just want. And there's, like, a feeling of rage.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. Crafts. Help me. I don't know if you're into crafts, but crafts are like, I guess my Xanak, like, beading, crocheting, and, like, making fridge magnets. Like, I don't know if maybe it's like, something about resorting to your inner child that, like. But maybe try a Xanax, an edible, and a fridge magnet.

[Chelsea Handler]

And making a bracelet.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

And making a bracelet.

[Chelsea Handler]

You know, I was reading through your new book of poetry. Haley Liu has a new book of poetry called I'm Sad and Horny.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, true.

[Chelsea Handler]

Which is a great fucking title. It's a great title for a tour. I'm sorry that you took it. Although I could probably still use it, but I won't. And which is a surprise, because we know you. Your most famous role. Not your only role. You've been in tons of stuff, but you're a drip of sweat that literally.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Was just dripping down.

[Katherine]

That's very welcome here.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It was full of, like, a tear. My armpits were crying.

[Chelsea Handler]

Your armpits were crying?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. I'm really that sad.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And that horny. Yeah, I guess you're dripping. That's how horny you are.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

You're most well known from playing Portia on White Lotus. That was a huge role for you. I know you've been in tons of stuff. You were in a. You were in Unpregnant. You were. I mean, there's a whole litany of. You've been acting since you were a kid. But everyone found out about you during White Lotus. So you're coming out with this book of poetry, which is very unexpected. I would never have expected that from anyone, really. So that's a fun thing to be in life.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Keep them guessing. Yeah, keep them guessing. Keep them on their toes.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And so can I just read one of the poems out loud or would you prefer to read it?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

No, please.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do you want to have it read?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I'm interested in which one is it?

[Chelsea Handler]

Because there's lots of art. Part two in this. I'm gonna pick one of the ones at the top because I didn't like there. There. First of all, there's beautiful artwork in this.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Thank you. Shout out to my friend Lily.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, shout out to your friend Lily.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

This one's called New Place Alone in South Africa. Put my underwear in a drawer and bought some throw pillows. Maybe it'll finally feel like home. It never felt like one when we were together. Now I want to take your last name and fall asleep to the sound of your deviated septum. The Mandela effect. Or am I a spoiled brat? I know myself deeper than that. To be alone in South Africa is better than being lonely with you.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

That's really cool. Ding, ding, bing.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

I can read it.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I like it better. That's cool.

[Chelsea Handler]

So that poem is about. It sounds like it's about a breakup.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It sounds like. It sounds like. It sounds like you moved to South.

[Chelsea Handler]

Africa after a breakup.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But I was living in South Africa for a movie and Yeah, I mean, it's kind of self explanatory. It's interesting because that one is about, to me personally, multiple relationships and just like this journey of like accepting. Just like actually being on your own. But yeah, that was cool hearing you read it. Well, I think that we have a.

[Katherine]

Lot of people who call in and write in with similar questions to that, where it's like they're afraid of being alone. And they're. I mean, they might be like 32, and they're like, and if I leave this relationship, I'll be alone forever. And it's like, first of all, not likely. True. Actually, it's better to be alone and be with yourself than be in a relationship where you're lonely.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Where you're feeling lonely with someone else is like the most empty feeling in the world. And being feeling lonely on your own is Actually. Okay. Like, it's actually proving to be not super awful all the time. It's awful sometimes, but I like it a lot of the time.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And I think. I mean, this book kind of covers the transition, I think, from your 20s to your 30s. Right.

[Katherine]

For sure.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's like a comprehensive.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Well, I mean, I just turned 30, so it's not like I. Moving into your 30s.

[Chelsea Handler]

So from your 20s, moving into your 30s, which is a really integral part of, like, becoming a woman, you know? Like, I didn't really feel like a woman until I turned 50 this year.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Wow.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like, now I feel like a woman, but like a clown.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Like a lion.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like a lioness.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Actually, no, I feel like a male lion.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Wow.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I can't wait to get there.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Because I, like. I don't feel like a woman. I feel like a woman. Like, I'm excited to feel like a male lion.

[Chelsea Handler]

And do you feel like. Do you feel like a woman or do you feel like a girl? Do you feel you're.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I feel like a woman.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, that's good. Yeah.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I feel like a. Not a woman.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Right.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But a woman. Like, I do. And that's. Yeah, I do.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, I think. What is so underappreciated or. So we don't speak enough about it in, like, the female space is. And men, of course, don't wanna talk about it. Cause men don't want us to be alone. You know, they want us to pair up with them. But the value of spending time by yourself, the value of going through breakups, reflecting back on them, understanding that you survived, that you're okay, that you're gonna do that, no matter what happens, you will overcome it. Unless you're diagnosed with. She's super horny right now. Do you need a tissue? Do we need. We need a tissue for Haley. Can you just, like, have.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

She's leaking.

[Chelsea Handler]

Everyone leaking from my pit. It's okay.

[Katherine]

But I'm also.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

That's what it is. Like, I'm not hot.

[Chelsea Handler]

Did you have coffee? I find coffee makes me sweaty.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I didn't have Matcha, but you know what? I will. Thank you so much. I think it's truly because of my deodorant I use. Like, it's not. It's a deodorant. It's not an antiperspirant. So it, like.

[Chelsea Handler]

Is it organic?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

My sweat smells good, but it's just, like, it almost makes me more wet.

[Chelsea Handler]

Are you using organic deodorant?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Because that doesn't work. I know it doesn't it doesn't work. I just don't want. Whatever. What is it? The illumina.

[Chelsea Handler]

We're getting it anyway.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I mean, I might as well just surrender. I might as well.

[Chelsea Handler]

You know, with all this organic stuff, it's like, that's a great idea. If my whole life was cleaned out by some sort of organic, you know, Buddha or some sort of shaman that was going to come in and clean out my whole house.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But that's kind of impossible because we live in this world at this time.

[Katherine]

We got plastic in our brain.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, we do. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

I've just learned to accept it. Right.

[Katherine]

Like, what else can we do? It's like, okay, okay, keep eating organic.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'll try.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I'll get some dove.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'll try. One step at a time. So back to your womanhood.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

So because you were in a long relationship, you were in a seven year relationship, right. At one point. This was. You broke up a long time ago from that, I think. But you were in a seven year relationship in which you thought, as many young people in their 20s think, that you're going to be with the person that you love like that forever.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, it was. All I saw in my life was just this person for the rest of it. Like, I actually never even went to the place where I would be like, but what if it doesn't work? I just never, from the second I met him, I never, I never went there. I was like, always, this is my person and this is the rest of my life.

[Chelsea Handler]

And how did you deal with that breakup? Being dealt information, which is, okay, now, this is not what you had to, you know, had planned.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

You know, I think I dealt with it the best I could. I dealt with it. I dealt with it, which is important.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

You know, and it was like, obviously, like up and down rollercoaster journey. I think that was. We're coming up on, like, almost five years since that breakup. And there's been a lot of like, realization since then, like a lot of aha moments. And obviously it's felt lonely and painful and confusing and all of the feelings to be able to get to the different aha moments. But I do feel like I've let him go and let that dream of that future go at this point, almost five years later, which is pretty cool.

[Chelsea Handler]

And do you feel stronger because of the breakup?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, I do. I feel stronger and I feel like I've always had some level of connection to myself and love for myself. Sometimes it's felt deeper down than other times, but, like, it's Gotten that tethered to, like myself has gotten so much stronger, which in turn, I think makes you stronger. Made me stronger. So, yeah, I'm actually. I know this sounds super dumb and cliche, but, like, I'm really happy it happened.

[Chelsea Handler]

But that's. I think that's. That's the point I'm trying to make to all of our listeners, is that, you know, when you do break up and we have these ideas and we have these attachments to outcomes, not even to the person necessarily, but to the outcome of the situation. It's like if you knew, if you weren't looking at a relationship and you were just looking at, like, a math equation, and you're like, okay, two plus two. Okay. A relationship plus a breakup is gonna equal this.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Meaning you're going to get stronger, you're gonna get wiser, you're gonna get closer to yourself. These are all the things that are gonna happen because of this heartbreak.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. And the journey of the heartbreak is so nonlinear that and sometimes feels impossible and pitiful and just hopeless. That it's like it is when you're in that position in the low times, it seems impossible to believe that equation. But you know, what I did last night, actually, that is on this topic, I journal a lot, which is where a lot of my poetry comes from.

[Chelsea Handler]

And you hand write everything.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

And I handwrite. Yeah. I love handwriting because I feel like. Like when I'm angry. Like, my writing's angry. When I'm, like, feeling grounded. My writing is beautiful when I'm. And like, it's just. Just a cool, cathartic expression. But every time I finish a journal, I have this, like, ritual where I go through it and I kind of read back what I was writing about and experiencing. And then I rip up the pages. Sometimes I burn them, sometimes I flush them down the toilet, throw it all away. And it's like a light sage. It's like a whole, like, thing to cleanse from that. And last night I finished a journal and I went through it and I was reading the things at the beginning of my journal and you know, my current kind of things that I'm like, heartbreak journey that I'm on. I'm like, I was having all these same thoughts that kind of reoccur that I feel now, but I was having so much more of them and they were so much more, like, hysterical and had, like, a stronger hold on me than they do now. It's just like, nice to see, like, even though I'm still feeling these things and having these Thoughts like, there's been a growth.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well.

[Katherine]

And I like what you say about going through it because that is a choice, right? You can choose to, like, do the work, journal, go to therapy, cry about it, whatever. Or you can choose to, like, distract yourself, just jump into another relationship. Like, it is an active choice to decide to deal with the feelings as they come up.

[Chelsea Handler]

And also to blame. Like, to blame the ex or. You know, so many people can do that. Whether you're, you know. You know, it's not about just being a woman. And men can do that too. Like, it doesn't matter whose fault it is when something's over. It matters how you pick yourself back up. Like, that's the most important thing, is how you are going to restore your energy, your faith in yourself and how you're gonna provide for yourself. Like, it's not about other people coming in to save you, it's about you saving yourself. And I think that's something that we always forget, you know? Like, we always forget. You wanna be like, well, he's an asshole. And even your friends will be like, he's. I can't believe he strung you along like that. Or he's garbage. It's like, it's not about him. And it doesn't help to have that energy towards anyone anyway.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Although I will say I think that that is sometimes a necessary phase of the getting to them, definitely, you know, like.

[Chelsea Handler]

But it's not the end goal.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It's not the end goal and it's not the core of what's happening. Like, it's everyone's, you know, trying their best. Everyone's been trying their best.

[Chelsea Handler]

Everyone trying their best. I don't know.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

The thing is, like. Like, it's actually sad. I'm kind of feeling. And look, maybe when I'm a male lion, I will have a different perspective, but I'm kind of feeling right now in my life, like, everyone is trying their best. And even the really shittiest of the shitty, like, awful, vile people of the world, like, it's actually sad to realize that because of whatever their circumstance, that is. That is her best. It's kind of heartbreaking to. To realize that, but it also is almost like a relief. And it also is. It makes it easier to kind of have empathy for myself that, like, even in my past, when I've handled things now, not the way I would handle it now, or not the way, like, even now I handle things. Like, I sent a text last week and my therapist was like, now, what would you rate that text like, what grade would you give that text? Like, probably a B minus. And she was like, interesting. And. But it's like. But, you know, in that moment, I was trying my best. Like, I literally could not have done better in that moment. And I'm trying to learn from how. If that type of moment comes up next time, maybe my best would be better.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think in those moments, if you're in a B minus mood, don't send the text. You don't send the text. You're like, I have to wait for my mood to get back to recalibrate.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

B minus is a passing grade. Like, I was like, I feel like this is better to do and act upon than to avoid and ignore. But, you know, B minus is. It's not the thing. This is what's cool is that three years ago, if I was in this exact same position, I would have done something that was like an F. Right. So, you know, improvement. Yeah. I like to think that at all times, I am doing the best I can in the moment. And if I'm doing that, then that's how we all are, no matter what our predisposition. Is that the right word?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And your personality. I'm gonna read another poem that I wanna share with our audience.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Okay.

[Katherine]

I like this, Chelsea.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It's exciting.

[Katherine]

We read to each other a lot on this show.

[Chelsea Handler]

We talk about books a lot on this show. And you read a lot. It sounds like.

[Katherine]

I wanna ask you. Cause you recently, I don't know how long ago this was, but posted like, a very cute thirst trap with a Brandon Sanderson novel.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yeah.

[Katherine]

Are you, like, into the cusp I've ever bought?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I was like, is this porn? Like, my friends were like, do was very cute.

[Katherine]

So are you loving those books? Did you get thrilled? Cause I'm sort of toying with reading. It's like a stack of books that's, like, as tall as a person.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

The Way of Kings.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Yes.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I haven't gotten. To be honest with you. I haven't. I then got distracted and got into more A Court of Thorns and Roses.

[Katherine]

Okay, sure, sure.

[Chelsea Handler]

Books.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But I have read probably, like 10. Brandon Sands. Have you read any of Brandon Sanders?

[Katherine]

I haven't read any. Cause I'm like, if I read one, I'm probably gonna have to read the one that's the.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I would start with the Mistborn trilogy. Those are actually my three favorite books of all time.

[Chelsea Handler]

What kind of genre is that?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It's fantasy. It's like pure fantasy, like world building. But it's also like, the way that Brandon Sanderson writes, it's not like it's not smut. It's very PG sometimes PG13. Okay. But it's like very metaphorical. It's like deeply thought provoking and powerful, but also just like so fun. And I love just getting lost and.

[Katherine]

All right, you're some insult mana magic.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

And there is romance, but it's again, it stops at like a kiss.

[Chelsea Handler]

This reminds me of a Disney World post that you once posted when you went to Disney World. You're obsessed with Disney World.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I am a adult.

[Chelsea Handler]

You love it.

[Katherine]

I'm a dish all day.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my gosh.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Well, you were theme.

[Chelsea Handler]

I remember seeing you post that and I was like, oh. Cause I am not. I am not. And I was like, I'm taking you to Disneyland.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

No, you don't.

[Chelsea Handler]

No, I've been there. I've been there.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Been there, done that.

[Chelsea Handler]

But let me. Okay, this is a really cute one. And every audience member or audience listener is going to relate to this. It's called Bestie Hot. Pink Heart Blue. I come home. I come for you. Plug you in twice a month. Plug me up twice in a row. Just me. Can't sleep. Hard week. You're always hard. Aren't you a little less empty inside? That is really, really cute. I just love it.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Thank you. I'm talking about my best friend.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Katherine]

I love that you said your team would not let you put a vibrator on the COVID of this. Yeah.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It was a real conversation. It was a real conversation. But you know my Lily Kravitz, who designed the book and has been my friend since I. Well, I say at the beginning of the book, she was the first person to ever see me dangle car keys off my erect nipple. Wow.

[Chelsea Handler]

Erect nipple. I like that.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

My nipples are pretty impressive.

[Chelsea Handler]

Erect.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

They can handle a whole keychain.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Amazing.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

I was just thinking about my own nipples when you were saying that. Cause my nipples can get really hard and I've never used the word erect with my nipples. We'll start doing that.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, it's like some nipples are deserving of the word erect.

[Chelsea Handler]

Mine would be my nipples get really hard and then they are serious.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

You have substantial nipples.

[Chelsea Handler]

They don't stay that way very, very long. It's like a 70 year old man. You know what I mean?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

You probably get to don't know what I mean. So you haven't had sex with a 70 year old man?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I haven't had sex with a 70.

[Chelsea Handler]

Year old man and neither have I.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But I have had sex with men.

[Chelsea Handler]

Who could be 70 or act like they're 70 or have the same erections as a 70 year old.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

[Chelsea Handler]

I hear what you're saying.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And okay, wait, back to your book. I want to talk about how you. So you've been writing, you've been journaling your whole life. Like how.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

When did you see my whole life?

[Chelsea Handler]

When did you start.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I really started committing to the journal after the big breakup almost five years ago. Cause that was a huge turning point in my life. Cause I was a kid and then I met that person and was with him for almost eight years and then we broke up and I was like out in the world for the first time, like as a just human. And so that was a lot to process. And you're an only child and I'm an only child.

[Chelsea Handler]

So do you have a really. Are you tight with your parents?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I'm tight with my parents, yeah. I love them. I really love them.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

They're good people and they've tried their. They've done their best, you know, like they are. They've been really loving, supportive parents, which is. And you know, they still love each other. They've been together since they were 17 and 18.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Isn't that like amazing and also weird?

[Katherine]

Mind blowing.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it's amazing. Yeah, I like them. So, yeah, I was a kid with my parents and then I was a young adult with a man and now I'm a Hailey person.

[Chelsea Handler]

Now you're Hayley Louvertcher still.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, Hayley Louis Richardson.

[Katherine]

It like catapults you. Like a breakup can sometimes like catapult you into adulthood. Especially if you were just a kid when you got into that relationship.

[Chelsea Handler]

And did you lean on your parents a lot during like, or during any difficult time, do you lean on your therapist the most? Like, who's your go to person?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I think I've had different, different people throughout my life. Like in relationship, obviously, like your partner that you rely on is your partner. And my mom's like the closest person in my life and honestly has really grounded advice. Like my mom's not really in it for the drama with things I tell. Tell her about. She's like really productive with her advice to me. It's nice. Obviously my therapist, I shout out love her, saw her this morning and you know, friends. Although sometimes that can, I think lead to. If you rely on a friend too much, it can lead to, you know, codependent things and weird patterns that happen, and then they just get sick and tired of you or vice versa, and then it ruins the friendship in a way.

[Chelsea Handler]

Let's talk about the difference between codependence and interdependence for a second, because I thought interdependence was co dependence, and somebody schooled me the other day and said, no interdependence. But also, I was reading this thing that, like, when you couple up with someone, right. When you become. You're in a relationship, it's almost impossible not to become codependent, even though codependent has a negative connotation. When you look the phrases up, they're mostly identical. Interdependency and codependency. So do you have an idea of what the differentiation is?

[Katherine]

I kind of see it through my own lens because, I mean, my husband and I, we are a little bit codependent, but I think mostly interdependent because we have sort of opposite skill sets. And so. And it's sort of like when one of us isn't able to sort of pick up their end of the slack, the other one kind of goes double time. And you can burp into the mic here.

[Erin Levine]

That's great.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

That's great.

[Chelsea Handler]

So.

[Katherine]

But I think it's, like, mostly healthy. I think codependence is when it's, like, almost, like, needy, and you can't do anything without this other person. And then that gets into, like, the other person sort of being a little controlling sometimes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, I see. I see. I see. Or when you're. When their problems become your problems, and then you have to, like, basically, like, you sacrifice your own life for their life. That's codependency in the worst form.

[Katherine]

Or, like, I can't make a decision without this person weighing in.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yes. And I've definitely felt that in relationships.

[Chelsea Handler]

Totally.

[Katherine]

Totally.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

There's a book called Codependent no More that I actually didn't finish reading. Maybe I should have.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

You started?

[Katherine]

You started. It's fine.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But there is this. I'm reminded of that. I'm like, maybe I should revisit that book. But there's this concept that actually, my very first meeting with my therapist that I still talk to now, this was probably almost 10 years ago now. She listened to me talk for, like, 45 minutes. And then she was like, I'm gonna get something and show it to you. And I was like, okay. And she came back from her little drawer with this piece of paper that had a triangle on it. It's called the drama triangle. I'm forgetting the dude that invented it, the concept of it. Have you guys heard of the drama triangle?

[Chelsea Handler]

To speak more, it might resonate with you.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

There's like the dramatic codependent version of the triangle, which has three points. One of the points is the bully, one of the points is the victim, and one of the points is the rescuer. And when you get sucked, it's not like any of us are always or naturally anxious, attached. It's different situations and relationships that bring things out in us. And so it's kind of the same idea with this triangle. It's like there are certain people or situations, dynamics that draw you onto the triangle. And then once you draw you're on the triangle, you're just doing this dance, this musical chairs dance around playing these different roles, which I think kind of ties into codependency and triangulation. Actually.

[Chelsea Handler]

There's a space for everyone.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

And then I was like, she was telling this to me and I was like, mind blown. Cause I was like, oh my God, I live like 90% of my life on this gosh darn triangle. Like, how the fuck do I get off? And she was like, well, let me show you another piece of paper. And then she showed me this other piece of paper that had like the healthy triangle, which instead of the rescuer, there was the cheerleader instead of the victim. You know, I'm not remembering all of it. Maybe I should. We should look it up. But the cheerleader was very important for me because I think the way I got tied on to the triangle, the time was wanting to rescue. And I'm like, now how can I, like, not take responsibility for you, but, like, encourage you as someone that loves you so much and wants the best for you to, like, make these decisions for yourself. There's the coach instead of the bully.

[Katherine]

Oh, there you go.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yeah. You've piqued my curiosity. I'm curious.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I still have more work to do. I have to finish the codependent notebook.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think you have to finish it up.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Remember on the health, I have to finish Way of Kings.

[Katherine]

I'll put a link to. I'll find this online and put a link to it in the show notes, the drawing.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know you're a big dancer. Like, you kind of came out here to dance, right? Originally to dance and act.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. But my first, like, year here was mainly dance work.

[Chelsea Handler]

Cause I remember seeing your People magazine shoot and I was like, I didn't know you were a dancer. And that was just a really beautiful shoot. Yeah, there's like video attached to it.

[Katherine]

And everything.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I did. It was really beautiful.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I had no idea. And then you were in a Jonas Brothers video dancing. Because you're a huge Jonas Brothers fan.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes, I am.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

And I was. Some of my friends are like, hailey, are you gonna like, finally let that go now? And I'm like, I wish I could, but no.

[Chelsea Handler]

Being such a rabid Jonas Brothers fan. Cause I know they asked you a question once, like, if you had to choose one of their albums to take away on a dessert on the island, which one would it be? And I was like, they should have asked you which Jonas Brother it would have been. Oh, yeah, that's a better question. And so let's figure out who that is. If you had to go, I forget about their marriages, pretend they're not married. We're living in a different alternate reality. Which Jonas Brother would you want to be trapped on a deserted island?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I mean, I'm getting excited.

[Katherine]

We're gonna make this a reality, by the way, so.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Well, the thing is, obviously, you know, since I was like 11, I've been obsessed with Nicholas. So I think I like kind of have to say him.

[Chelsea Handler]

I've never heard anyone call him Nicholas.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Nicholas. Jerry. Jonas. That's his name. There's just certain things you just don't for and you don't.

[Chelsea Handler]

So I think we have the answer.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It's Nick.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Nicholas.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Nicholas.

[Chelsea Handler]

How were you able to retain your composure when you were on the set of that?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I didn't, I didn't. I had no self control. I was like fully just like my teeny bopper 11 year old me, like came out and that's how I was behaving. And I had, I had no. I had no control. I was, I was 11. Like, I really was like. And honestly, it was beautiful. It was amazing. I wouldn't have wanted it to be any other way. I wouldn't have wanted to like been processing it as like 28 or however old I was at the time. Year old me. Like, I was just fully seeing it through these like eyes of this little teeny bopper.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure they deal with that a lot.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I was crying all the time. My makeup artist, Jenna, like, just kept having to like wipe the mascara under my eye because I was like, just like smiling and my cheeks hurt and I was just like constantly just like tears would come out. Yeah, that was special.

[Chelsea Handler]

I was once in a music video. I don't know if I've ever spoken about this on this podcast. This is funny story. I did. I was like, 17 years old. I was in New York City, and I auditioned for this. It was a band called Natural Selection. And I was hired as, like, the pretty girl. The lead singer had to, like, just sing to my face. So he was standing across from me. And I had never worked before, never done any gigs. And as soon as he started look like, singing towards me, my lips just, like, just were quivering. And it was so embarrassing. Cause I could feel it. And I feel just nerves.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

So nervous and, like, uncomfortable.

[Chelsea Handler]

And we have no. Like, I wouldn't be able to do that if it were someone I knew singing to me like that, I don't think. Yeah, I mean, maybe now I could, but not smiling. Like, that's fucking weird. Yeah. And. But at the time, I just had no experience. It was almost like, you know, spasming. Like, my face was spasming. And I knew everyone could see me. But I was 17 years old. I had no resources to be like.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I need a minute.

[Chelsea Handler]

Or I was just like, fuck, I'm gonna fall and burn right now. And then they finally removed me, and they're like, we'll just have you as a background extra, you know, and they replaced me. And it was, you know, one of my very first humiliations.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Wow.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I was like, oh, God, if I had known about beta blockers, you know, that would have been a much different story.

[Katherine]

You were not meant to be a video ho, unfortunately.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

You know, I was a video ho a couple times.

[Chelsea Handler]

Were you?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, I was like, 16, 17.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Yeah. For dance.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Like, there was like this. Actually, there were supposed to be. These boys had a band. They were brothers. They were called Sonus. They were these Argentinian boys.

[Chelsea Handler]

Sounds a lot like another band of brothers.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

They honestly were, like, very inspired by and hoping to be the Jonas Brothers, which was a big draw for me.

[Katherine]

Cause I was like, that's my take. But which one's Nicholas?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But they did this music video on the Venice boardwalk. And I was like, each brother had a love interest, and I was, I think, the oldest brother's love. Interesting. And there was some singing to my face. Not like that close. I don't think I would have been able to handle that. But there was, like, a lot of serenading. And then I would randomly, like, do a leap in the middle of the boardwalk. And yeah, I was a video hoe.

[Katherine]

Nice.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like music videos. Well, I guess they still do that, but I just like. It feels like it's a dated thing to be singing into someone's face. You know what I Mean. I mean, I'm sure that still happens. When I was reading your book of poetry, I was thinking that you remind me a lot of Taylor Swift, like, in terms of writing all these things down. Like a lyricist, a poet, you know. And then I found out you wanted to be a singer, right? Or you want to be a singer.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

There's, like, a delusional dream I've had probably my whole life that I would be an amazing pop star. Cause I'm like, oh, and I can dance, and I would look good in metallic bodysuits. And I have a lot of feelings, but I really just can't sing. Like, I don't have that skill set. And I've tried. My parents have spent a lot of money throughout the course of my childhood on voice lessons, and it didn't work. They never worked.

[Katherine]

You have a few other talents. It's okay.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I have a couple others that I'm focusing on now. But, yeah, I mean, I love Taylor Swift.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Are you a Swiftie?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I guess I am now.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, it's kind of hard not to be.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

It's hard. Hard not to.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm Swiftie. I think now, too. Like, my level of interest and the understanding of the impact that she's had, not only on the music industry and for women coming after her on All Women, all these little girls. Like, this is the happiest news we've gotten in six months is that engagement. First of all, she was on the podcast that was, like, happiness. And then you find out about the engagement. It's like, she's almost singularly responsible for our joy right now.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Because, like, think about it. Like, we've been rooting for her, like. Cause we relate through her heartbreak and these things that she, like, honestly, very generously shares with us, like, so that we can feel, like, not alone. Which is a big inspiration for me, wanting to, like, give these, you know, poems to the. To the world. Cause it's like, I know what that can do for me when I listen to music like Taylor. And so we're, like, rooting for her to, like, be happy and, like, have someone choose her. And this fucking hottie chose her.

[Chelsea Handler]

And in the exact way, the only way to go after someone like that, which is what he did, like, he shot his shot and it fucking worked out. I bet you no one else did that. I know no one else tried to do that except for him. You know what I mean?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

And he seems. Obviously don't know these people, but he seems like a pretty secure dude, and she deserves that and needs that. So that's. I mean, I'm really happy for her. Yay, Taylor.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, it is happy making. It's happy making. And when you. I was watching this Instagram video about this little girl, and she was asking her mom if they were going to Taylor Swift's wedding. She was like, mommy, are we going to the wedding? And she's like, no, honey, we're probably not going to the wedding. And then she's like, but why wouldn't we go? Like, we love Taylor.

[Katherine]

It's like the era.

[Chelsea Handler]

The mom was like, no, like, honey, we love Taylor because we've seen. We listen to her music and her pictures, but she doesn't know who we are. And then the little girl goes, huh? Anyway, can you put on Hot to Go? I was like, what a cute video.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

That is cute. I want to see that. Wow. Yeah. I mean, she is very poetic. And I honestly, I've always listened to Taylor Swift throughout my life. When I was like, 13 or something was probably. It was, like, pivotal, that song for me. And so. But I never really considered myself a Swiftie or really, like, gave in to my, like, full, like, love and respect for Taylor Swift as, like, a artist and, like, amazing force person in the world. But I went to the Eras tour in Atlanta because I wanted to see Bee Badooby, who's this sweet girl I know who was opening for her, and I love her music. And she got me a ticket. And so I was like, sure, I'll fly to Atlanta and watch Bee Badooby and then stay for the Taylor Swift concert. And I stayed for the freaking Eras tour. And I was just like, I knew maybe a third of the songs, but I was like. Cause I kind of missed, like, the folklore other albums Eras. But I was like, I was like, it's impossible to be at that concert and watch her presence and her impact and, like, not be so blown away and inspired and impressed. And then I ended up going to the Eras tour in la and at that point, I, like, knew every single song and was a Swiftie, so.

[Chelsea Handler]

And the other thing I do love, not that this is a podcast about Taylor Swift. I don't think you've ever talked to a Taylor Swift on this podcast. Maybe it should be, but because your poetry does remind me of her writing. Like, it is kind of, you know, her writing is poetry. But the other thing is how beautiful the family dynamic was, how her parents have crafted like. And it sounds like you come from a similar structured, loving, normal family that are, like, solid because it could go one of Two ways. And we've seen the disasters with all of these, you know, young people who become famous and. And when their parents aren't on solid ground and they aren't grounded, it's a disaster. And then look at, like, the beauty and, like, you're such a, like, ray of light. Look at what your parents did for you, you know, they were a ray of light.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I'm a breath of fresh air.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah, you're a ray of light. Yeah, you're just one. I'm a woman. You're a woman. Yeah, you're a woman.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Soon to be a male lion.

[Chelsea Handler]

So, like, I mean, it's just nice to see the impact of good parenting. I chose not to become a parent because I don't have time for that shit, you know, And I feel like that's a very responsible decision to make, honestly.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Good for you.

[Chelsea Handler]

If you're not gonna be an A plus, then you shouldn't become a parent.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, if you're not going to send the A text, then don't send the B minus text. Like, yeah, I got to learn these things now so I don't become a B plus or B minus.

[Chelsea Handler]

B minus or. Yeah, B minus person. Which, yeah, you're not a B minus person.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

So thank you. B or A.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, definitely. Yeah, you're in the A zone.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Thank you.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But, yeah, my parents shout out to.

[Chelsea Handler]

Them, yeah, no, no, I can tell that you have good parents. I can already tell that they, they.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Have, like, always believed in me and always loved me. And I think that that is unfortunately rare. It's something that now, like, 30 and looking back and now having this, like, adult relationship with my parents, I'm like, you guys were really great. Like, you guys really supported me and made this life that I live possible. And they're great. They're also, like, a fun hang.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do you really think that's rare, to be loved and believed in?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I do think being, like, deeply believed in, like, the sacrifice my parents made to, like, let me leave high school at 16 and move to LA and, like, give up whatever money they were saving for a college experience for me and, like, be away from each other for a year and a half while my mom lived with me in LA and my dad was back in Arizona, like, put their lives on hold, to, like, make that, like, that is something that I like people that I know their parents didn't do that for them and wouldn't. And there's people that I even know that they wanted to, like, do something unconventional or more like not even unconventional. But just like arts or something not good. And their parents like encouraged them not to because of X, Y and Z. And it's like my parents didn't just encourage me, they sacrificed not to. They sacrificed and like made it possible for me, which I do think is rare.

[Katherine]

Right?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, it's really cool.

[Chelsea Handler]

On that note, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Haley Lou Richardson. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. As the days grow darker, it can be a tough time for many, myself included. This November, Better Help is encouraging everyone to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones and remind the people in your life that you are there. Jess says it can take a little courage to send that message or grab coffee with someone you haven't seen in a while. Reaching out for therapy can feel difficult too, but it is worth it. Trust me. I speak from experience, recent experience, and it almost always leaves people wondering, why didn't I do this sooner? BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and your preferences. And then their 12 plus years of experience in industry leading match fulfillment ranks means that they typically get it right the first time. Switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations this month. Don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com dearchelsea that's betterhelp.com dearchelsea I used to wake up at 2am.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

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[Chelsea Handler]

Each side of the bed independently.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

You know that feeling when you come home late from work and those puppy dog eyes just pierce right through your soul? Or when you're packing for a trip and your cat refuses to leave your suitcase? Yep, we've all been there. Pet parent guilt is real. And you know what? It's completely normal. That's exactly why Hill's Pet Nutrition exists. They understand that being a pet parent means being human. With all of our imperfections and daily juggling acts, Hill's science led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Whether it's those long work days or trying to balance attention between multiple pets, Hill's Pet Nutrition gets it. They've created science based nutrition that supports your pet's lifelong health so that you can feel confident even when life gets hectic because you're only human. There's Hills. Science does more Ready to let go of the guilt? Find the right [e-mail] iheart that's hillspet.com iheart and we're back with Haley Lou Richardson and her new book of poetry which is called Sad and Horny.

[Katherine]

I know Sad and horny.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, sorry. Which is fun.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

You know what, that was a question in my publisher was like are you sure you don't want to call it sad and horny? And I really thought about it. Cause actually originally I wanted to call the book I'm sad and Horny by this Book. Cause I just wanted the desperate, the aware desperation to be a part of the title. And I had multiple people encourage me to get rid of the buy this book. And I agreed with that. But my publisher was like, are you sure you want the I'm? Cause sad and horny is just so a thing. And I'm like, you know, I thought about it and I was like, I really want the I'm. Cause it's so personal and you own it and I own it. And then it's like also the question of like, oh, what are you reading? I'm Sad and Horny. I liked that conversation happening.

[Chelsea Handler]

So yeah, great, great. We're gonna take some callers and we're gonna give some advice here. There's callers, there's callers, there's real life.

[Katherine]

Oh my gosh, that's so cool.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And then I'm glad you're all therapized because that's gonna help you give out some advice.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Okay, cool.

[Katherine]

Yes. So our first caller is Bri. She's 37. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a 37 year old woman and I found myself in a precarious situation for my entire adult life. I PR on my ability to remain faithful in any and all of my relationships. I had never cheated and had a very negative perspective toward the idea of cheating. I was in a faithful and monogamous, although toxic relationship from 25 to 33. And after ending that, I spent four months being single and dating my now ex, Adam. After almost two and a half years together, I started to realize that Adam and I were not compatible. However, I didn't initially act on it. About four months ago, I started to pay more attention to one of my male co workers, Brian Price. Even though we've worked together for years, something changed and I found myself thinking about him outside of work. After finding a work related reason to initiate a text to him, we began began texting regularly. Within a few weeks, we were talking all day at work, taking private walks on our breaks, and texting all night. Needless to say, my partner had no idea. This quickly led to us confessing our feelings for one another, kissing when we had the chance, holding hands on walks, and pretty soon admitting that we were falling for one another other. I decided at this point that I needed to end things with Adam and chose not to move forward physically with Bryce until I did so. However, that did not stop us from making verbal plans to be together once I ended things with Adam. Here's where things change. Fast forward to about eight weeks ago. I broke things off with Adam and moved out into my own place. Following this, things between Bryce and I began to slow down, and I noticed a growing distance between us, which I assumed was because both of us kind of had a realization that things were moving along quite quickly. Day by day, our communication dwindled until last, when we decided to take a step back with things until we both have our shit figured out and we know what we want. I'm the one who suggested this because I sensed him pulling away, almost as if I was trying to beat him to the punch. My dilemma. I feel heartbroken. I know that ultimately I'm likely still grieving the relationship with Adam as well, but I cannot get Bryce off my mind. I recognize that my abandonment issues and attachment style tie into this, but my question is, how can I find a way to move forward with Bryce, given that we work together? When I say we're co workers, we do not just work for the same company. We sit next to each other a few feet away, multiple days a week. Although I'm grateful that I still get to see him, I know that working with him is going to make this very difficult. We're both fairly mature and are serious about our careers, so I know that we'll both do our best to try and maintain an amicable dynamic at work, especially given that we ended things mutually. However, I'm having a hard time seeing his face on a daily basis. Yeah, I've never been in a situation like this, both in terms of infidelity and the relationship with a coworker. Any advice to help me navigate this challenge?

[Sponsor Voice]

Bri.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Hi, Bri. Oh, my gosh. You're a real person.

[Chelsea Handler]

Bri, we're here. You're real. Oh, my God. This is Hayley Lou Richardson, our special guest today.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Hi.

[Caller Bri]

Nice to meet you.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Nice to meet you, Bri. Thanks for sharing that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Somebody once told me, when you're in a relationship that's kind of stale, there's a person who gets you out of that relationship. And you can sometimes confuse that with, like, oh, I'm in love. Like, sometimes you just need to get out of the position A and move into position B. And sometimes that only will happen if somebody else comes around and, like, lures you away. So this is a huge opportunity for you, for growth, for learning, for getting to know yourself. You have to embrace your womanhood, which we've been discussing. You have to embrace your womanhood right now you can tandle anything. You're a woman. We can fucking do anything. You're fierce, you're powerful, and you're resilient. That's what you have to tell yourself every single morning when you wake up or before you walk into the office to think you're gonna melt when you see him. You're stronger than at him. Okay? Just remember, women are stronger than men. And that's not sexist, it's true. So, so, so, like you have the tote, you're in the driving driver's seat. You ended things, you know, and the driver's seat isn't important, but you just have to know, as a woman, you are so powerful. You. If you want this to happen with this guy at work, it can happen. But respect the fact that you just got out of something and going straight into something isn't really going to be the most most valuable lesson in your life. The more valuable lesson. And if you wanted, like I always say, I like to bake the first time, the last time. Like, I don't want to learn the same lessons twice. And I don't want to go to summer school. I want to go to Mallorca. You know what I mean? So when there's an opportunity to be mature or easy and like give in to your lustfulness or your desires, it's not forever. It's not like you have to do this for months and months or whatever, but just choose your higher self and be like, okay, I just got out of a long term relationship. The most sensible thing to do is like, what would you tell your daughter to do in this situation? If you had a daughter, what would you say to her? You would say, take some time, regroup. You can have this little flirtation. You had a flirtation with this guy, it's going to redevelop. You just keep your distance and be in the driver's seat. Because that's what you are. You are in the driver's seat. And you could completely control yourself.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Yourself.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know you can.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I like that.

[Caller Bri]

You know what? That's actually great advice. You are kind of making the point that I feel like maybe I'm almost giving him the power.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Caller Bri]

And I need to kind of take that back.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, exactly.

[Caller Bri]

Really? That's really good advice. And also to your first point, sometimes we just need that one person to get us out of the initial, you know, slow moving still. I like that. I'm gonna hold on to that. That's actually really great advice.

[Chelsea Handler]

It was a guy that was having an affair and he said, I was with two guys, left their wives for other women, and they had been married to their new wives forever. But they said they both had the woman they had an affair with got them out of their marriages. And then they ended up with different women. And there was like. And they had a term for it. And I was like, oh. I'm like, well, I'm gonna take that for women. Halle, do you agree? What do you think?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, I agree with. I mean, you.

[Chelsea Handler]

I want you to be my therapist.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But you also just, like. You say really, like, emotionally deep, true things, but you say it like it fucking is. And that's so cool to, like. It must feel so nice to, like, be getting that advice in that way. Yeah, I completely agree. And I also just, like, actually really commend you. Cause I think you seem like a very aware, thoughtful person. Like, the way you go through life, even, like, your awareness of the ways that you were unfaithful in the end of the relationship. Like, I'm impressed by the fact that whatever it was that this guy Bryce was showing in that attraction was showing you, that was making it clear to you you had to get out of the relationship with Adam. You know, there were times where the powerful woman that was making the decisions and in control of your actions maybe went to the, you know, passenger seat or in the backseat and something else was taking over. But, like, you never let you get, like, stuffed in the trunk and just, like, fully act out of passion, need, instinct, lust out of control. And, like, I find that really impressive. Honorable.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Thank you.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

So, I mean, whatever. If. If there's a part of you. I don't know if there's a part of you that, like, feels guilty or, like, ashamed, like, see that as, like, whatever, healthy shame, so you don't do that again and hurt yourself and someone else in a way that you wouldn't want to again if you were in a similar situation. But also just. Just, like, really, like, think it's pretty cool, the awareness you had through. Through all of that.

[Katherine]

Right. To not, like, go full throttle with an affair sort of thing.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Agreed.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Agreed.

[Chelsea Handler]

So good for you on both fronts. Yeah. So just gear up and go back to work like the badass woman that you are and handle it.

[Caller Bri]

Thank you so much. I feel like I just needed a little bit of a push. I actually really appreciate this is not something that obviously I can talk to about.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah.

[Caller Bri]

With most people.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Right.

[Caller Bri]

I know. You know what I mean? I can't. I'm not calling up my mom or another coworker or friend. So I appreciate it. I just kind of needed another woman's perspective and that all makes a lot of sense. And also thank you for touching on the guilt and the shame because of course that's, you know, kind of floating around in the back of my head or in my heart, I should say. So I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

I needed that. Awesome. Well, thanks for calling in.

[Caller Bri]

Thank you, ladies. I appreciate your time today.

[Chelsea Handler]

Absolutely.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Bye, Bree.

[Caller Bri]

Thank you.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

You've got this.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, I feel the same way.

[Katherine]

If I'm like, you got it, you got it.

[Chelsea Handler]

That was like a perfect color. Yeah.

[Katherine]

Wow.

[Chelsea Handler]

Perfect. Cause people call in with these kinds of serious things. I mean, that is serious. But she wasn't broken. You know what I mean? Some people do call in and they're broken and like, and then it's like you can't talk to them like that.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

She had like a real like awareness. It was really even like through that hard time. Cause like the end of her, like it's hard to be at the end of a relationship and something not working, especially if you can't admit it to yourself, then you can't admit it to the other person and then something out of control happens that's like hurtful. And I feel like she actually had a lot of self awareness.

[Chelsea Handler]

There's also this idea that like when there's an attraction, like we can't help ourselves. And it's just so silly. It's like, we can all help ourselves. You don't have to fuck your fucking coworker while you're still in a relationship. That's such a man thing to do, you know, like, you have to have accountability, like leaving the relationship. What?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Well, I just had this like hearing you say you can't help, I can't help myself is like I just had another meaning of that, of like. But you can help yourself. Like whatever you are searching for in that connection or trying to get from that external thing, like, it's like, I can't help myself. But actually you can always help yourself.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Right? Whoa. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

That gave it a double. That's. Now I got a double meaning too. Okay, great.

[Katherine]

Well, our next question comes from Lauren and she says, dear Chelsea, I'm a 33 year old therapist in St. Louis. I love my job and the life I've built here. But the dating scene is so challenging. I ended a long term relationship three years ago and have been trying everything to meet new people. Dating apps, singles events, networking parties. You name it, I've done it. I'm also in Maybe the only career that I can't meet. People at work, confidentiality and all. She's a. She's a therapist. I realize I already said that, but, yeah, she's a therapist. I made the decision to move to a new city to experience dating somewhere else. I'd love advice on how to make connections and meet singles in a city I don't know anyone in. You're such an inspiration. Thanks for all you do, Lauren.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, that's easier than. Hi. Hi, Lauren. Hi. Hi. This is Hayley Lou Richardson, our special guest today. Hi.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Hi.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

So good to see you guys. Nice to meet you. Hi, Lauren.

[Chelsea Handler]

First of all, it's great for taking the situation and doing something about it and moving to a different city. That's great proactive behavior. And as a therapist, you probably already know that, but I think you just have to put yourself out there in every way possible. You have to join all sorts of clubs you don't give a shit about. Just like you start join a runner's club, join a. And a bike ride. What city are you in, by the way?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I'm in St. Louis, but I'm moving to Madison, Wisconsin.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Okay, great.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, you can join, like, kayaking, you know, on Saturday mornings. You could do a paddleboard class. You could do all sorts of shit. But think about things in that, like, that are gonna yield more of, like, an intersexual kind of community. You don't wanna obviously take ballet class lessons, you know, like, that's not gonna. You're not gonna meet men. But think of things. And I'm just saying things off the top of my head, but really, really sit down and make a list of, like, activities that you'd be down to. Do tennis. If you want to take, like, tennis lessons, join a tennis club. You don't have to join a country club. You can join a tennis club and you can join a biking club. You can join a runners club. All of those are going to yield both sexes. So you're going to meet friends and you're going to.

[Katherine]

And.

[Chelsea Handler]

And if you're in a new city, you're going to need some new friends anyway. You're going to meet people that way. And don't give up on the dating sites. Like, I understand that they sometimes feel like, oh, God, you know, like, it's overwhelming or it's so depressing because you go on these dates and you're like, this is all that's out there. You.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

It's.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's trial and error like everything else in life. And like, if you really have a desire to meet somebody, then it's up to you to make that happen. And you're gonna like, you know, push yourself a little bit further. Even if you're like, oh, like, I don't want to do my fucking Spanish homework. I don't. I'm not in the mood. But I know I'm gonna do it. Cause I want to get better at learning Spanish. You're gonna go on that date. Maybe you don't feel like up for it, but that's one step closer to finding the person that you want. And if is that important to you, then you have to make that like a top line priority.

[Katherine]

Like, treat it like a job.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, treat it like a job.

[Katherine]

And also, I think people forget the value of like asking the cute guy in line at the coffee shop for his number. You know, like, just be ballsy and make some light conversation. And they'll be like, can I get your number?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes. That's a great point, Katherine. Because everyone would think that I do whatever I want, when I want. And I have all this confidence, right? I have missed so many opportunities by not addressing a man that I've seen at a party or at a. In a store or something. Like where I've wanted to be like, oh, that guy's hot, you know, or like I'm trying to catch his eye and just stupid. Like I should have just walked up to the table and been like, hey, I think you're pretty cute. Here's my number. That's what the advice I would give to anyone. Yet there are many times where I have not done that. And all I do if, when any. That's the only thing I think I regret in my life is not actually being as bold as people think I am with regard to. To like meeting guys or hooking up. What do you have to lose? Who gives a shit? You don't even know the person. So if. If they're not into you, who cares? You know what I mean? Like, you kind of have to grab life by the balls. Especially now. It's like, if that's such an important thing to you, you really have to just do everything to make it happen. So that would be my advice. I mean, Haley's single too, right now.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I was gonna say I'm kinda in your boat. I'm kinda in your boat. I. But I do actually feel like I act on the boldness, I guess, or just like the saying. My thing is I just am like, hey, I just wanted to tell you you're really handsome. And you know Sometimes it elicits, like, a nice response, and there's, like, maybe just, like, a little night. Like, maybe they don't ask for my number or nothing ever happens, but it's just like, oh, I had a little connection, and they told me I was cute, too. And that's, like, kind of a nice little. Little.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's actually a perfect way to do it, because that's so. And, like, that's. That's such a sweet way to do it because it's so charming. Like, it's not like, hey, I want to. You. Here's my phone number, which is what I would do, but, I mean, I haven't exercised that right nearly as much as I work better, but I think you're really handsome. Who's not gonna love that? You know what I mean?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah. No one. No one that I've done that to hasn't loved it. Like, the worst that I get is, like, oh, thanks.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

They go on with their life, and.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm like, yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But, yeah, I'm really in your boat, so I don't. I feel like I was listening to her advice and maybe the same way you were, but just. I guess if there's anything, know that you're not alone. There are a lot of us out on the apps, getting sick and tired of the apps, deleting the apps, thinking they're in love with a waiter because he looked at her a certain way. Like, sliding into someone's DMs that's on love island and never getting a response. I mean, I've done wild things, and none of it's been really successful yet. And I'm just trying to hold on to hope and not become bitter. So I'm right there with you, Lauren.

[Katherine]

Have you tried sliding into some DMs of Love island contestants?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Not with Love island, but definitely other shows, for sure. Amazing. Have you gotten responses? Cause I literally haven't, and I'm like, what?

[Chelsea Handler]

Wait, what?

[Katherine]

I have a blue check mark.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Yeah. You're like, what's this fame thing for if I can't get what I want?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I definitely need to try to be more bold. I feel like I fall into the friendship aspect. Like, I need to, you know, up my flirting and just, like, be confident with it and fake it till I make it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And be active on those dating sites. Like, just get on all of them and be active and be forward about what you're looking for. Like, I'm looking for a relationship. I just always think the more you do of Something, the quicker you're gonna get to where you're going, there's gonna be a lot of rejects or people that you're not interested in. But in doing that, you're kind of getting all that stuff out of the way and getting closer to the person that you will be into and that you will wanna have a relationship with.

[Katherine]

It's a total numbers game.

[Chelsea Handler]

And you have. Listen, you have everything on your side. You're in a brand new city. The options are endless, you know, and you're a cutie. A cutie. And people are getting divorced every single day. So there's something else to think about. I know. Like what?

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I do think about that for sure.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Maybe you'll get someone on their.

[Chelsea Handler]

You know, that's kind of the best thing to get. The world is our oyster.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

The world is our oyster.

[Katherine]

All right, Lauren and Haley, we'll need you both to follow up when you put this into practice.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Yeah, we'll see. I'll let you know if any of the Love island contestants ever get back.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I'll see you. I'm coming on tour next year to Madison, so I'll see you there, hopefully.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Oh, amazing. Yes, I will definitely see you there.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, have a great day. Bye, Lauren.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Bye.

[Katherine]

You know what my sister in law did, which obviously worked out for her because she's my sister in law now. She came home from, like visiting family in Ireland who were like teasing her because she was 30 and not married, which is silly, but she felt some kind of way about it. So she just decided to, like, make it her job to go on all these dates. She went on like one or two dates every single day. And here was her trick. She goes, I had. In order to not repeat outfits with the same guy, she goes, I had a first date outfit that I wear on all my first dates, a second date outfit, a third date outfit. And most of them didn't get past date. They eventually she found my brother in law and they were like, how are you still single? And, you know, fell in love and got married, but she goes, by the end of that. My first date outfit was like raggedy because I'd worn it so many times, but it was just like she just killing. Yes. Yes.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Wow. Armpit stains.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Okay. I mean, honestly, that is hopeful to me because there's so many, like, especially like my parents and people of their generation don't get that, like, don't get the dating apps of putting yourself out there. So they're like, well, don't you just want to just live your life and let the person find you. And I'm like, that's what I've been doing for 30 years.

[Chelsea Handler]

And ideally, yes, but we live in and we live in the technology age. So it's just like a numbers game. And like that's how so many people are operating. They don't want to waste a night going out to a bar or going out to a restaurant or whatever because they're like, oh, I'm going to save that for my date night. You know what I mean? Some people or like orchestrate their entire or organize their lives around that. So it's kind of like that's the age we're living in. So there's nothing wrong with it. We're gonna take a break and we're gonna be right back to wrap up with Haley Liu. I used to wake up at 2am.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

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[Chelsea Handler]

Each side of the bed independently.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

So go to 8sleep.com Chelsea use code Chelsea and get $350 off. You will thank me later.

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Sponsor Voice]

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[Chelsea Handler]

You know that feeling when you come home late from work and those puppy dog eyes just pierce right through your soul? Or when you're packing for a trip and your cat refuses to leave your suitcase? Yep, we've all been there. Pet parent guilt is real. And you know what? It's completely normal. That's exactly why Hill's Pet Nutrition exists. They understand that being a pet parent means being human. With all of our imperfections and daily juggling acts, Hill's science led nutrition helps you give more love love than humanly possible. Whether it's those long work days or trying to balance attention between multiple pets, Hill's Pet Nutrition gets it. They've created science based nutrition that supports your pet's lifelong health so that you can feel confident even when life gets hectic because you're only human. There's Hills. Science does more Ready to let go of the guilt? Find the right [e-mail] iheart that's hillspet.com iheartra.

[Erin Levine]

What if divorce didn't feel so Overwhelming? I'm Erin Levine. I spent 20 years as a divorce attorney and I built hello Divorce to give you the support I wish more people had with hello Divorce. Everything you need is in one place. From forms and filing to organizing your finances and building a parenting plan. Our smart technology adds transparency and speed while real experts, lawyers, mediators and financial pros are there just in case you need some extra help along the way. We've helped over 15,000 people move forward, 97% of them without going to court. And we're proud to be the highest rated online divorce platform on trustpilot. Divorce is hard. The process shouldn't make it harder. Start your next chapter@hello divorce.com.

[Chelsea Handler]

And we're back with Haley Lou Richardson, who's gonna, I guess you know, turn on all your apps when you leave here and just.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I'm actually enjoying. I'm actually enjoying yourself. I'm enjoying myself.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I'm like.

[Chelsea Handler]

And also so is your vibrator.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

So I'm enjoying myself. I'm enjoying. I have multiple besties these days. Different shapes for different moods. Love them all equally. So I have a pretty good crew. We're in a polyamorous relationship.

[Chelsea Handler]

I love different shapes for different moods. I would love to see a chart on that at some point. The book is called Her Book of Poetry, which is great and really funny and sad at times, but poignant. It's called I'm Sad and Horny and so please get yourself a copy and. Well, I mean, you're just absolutely delightful.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Thank you. So are you both.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes. Thank you for coming. You really brightened up my day today. I was having a shit show this morning. Yes, yes, yes.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

I would not have felt that at all.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, great.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Perfect. But I'm sorry.

[Chelsea Handler]

But thank you. I mean, you really came in like a ray of sunshine.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Okay, I meant that. Thank you. I feel the same way. This was fun. Now I want a podcast. This was so fun.

[Katherine]

The word of the week is avaricious Adjective Greedy of gain, excessively seeking to hoard riches. Avaricious. Zoran Mamdani won the New York City mayoral race because people are tired of landlords who have become too avaricious. Avaricious.

[Chelsea Handler]

I just announced all my tour dates. They just went on sale this week. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I will be starting in February of next year, so I will be touring from February through June. So go get your tickets now. If you want good seats and you want to come see me perform, I will be on the High and Mighty Tour.

[Katherine]

Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write in to dearchelseapodcastmail.com Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching earchelseapod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert Executive Producer Kathryn La Law and be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

You know what's not fun?

[Chelsea Handler]

Waking up at 2am Drenched in sweat.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Been there. That's why I started using pod 5 from 8 sleep.

[Chelsea Handler]

And let me tell you, it is a game changer.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

It's designed with women's help in mind, especially for those of us dealing with hot flashes. Pod 5 is this genius smart mattress cover that fits over any bed and pulls your body before a hot flash can mess with your sleep. Sleep. And when I need an extra relief, I just tap the bed or use the app to activate hot flash mode. 30 minutes of instant cooling. It's like having a personal climate concierge. It's clinically proven to reduce hot flashes by over 50% and I genuinely sleep deeper and wake up feeling way more refreshed. I love that it's a non medical solution, but it's backed by real data and it feels totally natural. Anyone who listens to this podcast knows that I would like to sleep in a refrigerator. And now I and if you sleep with a partner pod five cools each side of the bed independently. So no more kicking someone out for being a human furnace. You both get your perfect temperature from 55 degrees to 110 degrees. So go to 8sleep.com Chelsea use code Chelsea and get $350 off. You can try it risk free for 30 days.

[Chelsea Handler]

Trust me.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Better sleep starts here.

[Chelsea Handler]

You know that feeling when you come home late from work and those puppy dog eyes just pierce right through your soul? You. Yep, we've all been there. Pet parent guilt is real and completely normal. That's exactly why Hill's Pet Nutrition exists. They understand that being a pet parent means being human. Hill's science led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Whether it's those long work days or trying to balance the tension between multiple pets. Hill's Pet Nutrition gets it because you're only human. There's Hills. Science does more more. Ready to let go of the guilt? Find the right [e-mail] iheart that's hillspet.com iheart Dogs aren't just pets. We know this. Doug is one of the most important, if not the most important member of my family and certainly the only man I want in my bed at the moment. Since I want the absolute best for my chow Chow Doug. I am making the switch to Ollie. They offer fresh protein packed meals made with real human grade ingredients. A win for Doug's health. And they offer five tasty recipes all slow cooked cooked for top nutrition. A win for his happiness. Your dog's well being starts with their food and that's why Ollie delivers fresh human grade food that your dog will love. So head to ollie.com Chelsea tell them all about your dog and use code Chelsea to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box. So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back.

[Sponsor Voice / Ad Reader]

Back.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's Ollie O-L-L-I-E.com Chelsea and enter code Chelsea to get 60% off your first box.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap.

[Sponsor Voice]

You're almost at the finish line.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

But first.

[Sponsor Voice]

There the last one.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores.

[Caller Bri]

That means.

[Chelsea Handler]

That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront.

[Hailey Lou Richardson]

Came in a $45 for 3 month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Katherine]

See mintmobile.com this is an iHeart podcast.