Dream Requiem with Rufus Wainwright

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dear Chelsea – Episode: "Dream Requiem with Rufus Wainwright"

Release Date: April 24, 2025
Host: Chelsea Handler
Co-host: Catherine Law
Guest: Rufus Wainwright

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of "Dear Chelsea," host Chelsea Handler engages in an intimate and enlightening conversation with renowned musician and composer Rufus Wainwright. The episode delves deep into Rufus's latest project, "Dream Requiem," exploring its inspirations, creative process, and emotional undertones. Alongside personal anecdotes and professional insights, Rufus shares his experiences navigating the complexities of the music industry and personal relationships.

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Welcome and Personal Updates

[04:57] Chelsea Handler:
Chelsea opens the conversation by sharing humorous personal updates, including anecdotes about her partner Doug's struggles with a stomach bug in Canada and the challenges of maintaining her life in Los Angeles amidst personal and professional upheavals.

Notable Quote:
"Nobody asks me what's going on with my house. If you're listening to this and you wanna rent a big house in Los Angeles for a lot of money, hit me up on DMs." – Chelsea Handler [03:45]

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Introducing Rufus Wainwright

Chelsea warmly welcomes Rufus Wainwright, highlighting his talents as a singer, songwriter, and composer. The introduction sets the stage for an in-depth discussion about Rufus's new project and his journey in the classical music realm.

Notable Quote:
"He's an amazing singer, songwriter, composer, and legendary beauty." – Chelsea Handler [04:47]

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Discussion on "Dream Requiem"

Inspiration and Creation

Rufus shares the genesis of "Dream Requiem," drawing inspiration from Byron's poem "Darkness" (1814) and the catastrophic volcanic eruption in Southeast Asia that plunged the world into darkness. This historical event parallels contemporary concerns about ecological collapse, serving as a poignant backdrop for his composition.

Notable Quote:
"As I fell in love with the poem, it's all about the end of the world, and it's about, like, ecological collapse." – Rufus Wainwright [10:33]

Collaboration with Meryl Streep and Jane Fonda

Rufus recounts the serendipitous collaboration with acclaimed actresses Meryl Streep and Jane Fonda, who serve as narrators for different performances of "Dream Requiem." The partnership with these iconic figures adds a profound emotional layer to the piece.

Notable Quote:
"Jane turned to me and she said, Rufus, I'm doing it. I was like, excuse me? She was like, no, I'm gonna. I will do it with you." – Rufus Wainwright [12:28]

Premiere and Future Performances

The premiere in Paris, featuring Meryl Streep, is a significant milestone for Rufus. He expresses immense gratitude and excitement for the upcoming performance at Disney Hall in Los Angeles on May 4th, highlighting the venue's magnificent organ that inspired the final composition of the Requiem.

Notable Quote:
"I'm gonna get to actually hear that organ play in the piece. So whatever. I just feel very fortunate." – Rufus Wainwright [58:40]

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Navigating Artistic Challenges

Rufus opens up about the emotional toll of his previous projects, including the failed musical "Opening Night," which led to a period of depression. He discusses the cyclical nature of his creativity, where moments of despair fuel his artistic expression, creating a delicate balance between inspiration and emotional well-being.

Notable Quote:
"I've realized now in my 50s, is that there is this kind of machine that I've created where, you know, I get depressed and then I write songs and then I feel better, but then I gotta get depressed in order to write a song." – Rufus Wainwright [16:13]

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Listener Questions and Advice

1. Tina’s Story: Navigating Family Dynamics with a Trans Relationship

Tina, a 47-year-old single mother, seeks advice on supporting her son who is dating a transgender man amidst conservative family members. Chelsea and Rufus emphasize the importance of open-mindedness, building a personal relationship with Tina's son's partner, and prioritizing her son's happiness over extended family opinions.

Notable Quotes:

• "Get to know your son's new love interest and spend time with them. Just keep opening your heart and your mind." – Chelsea Handler [32:38]
• "Be proud of yourself for being open." – Rufus Wainwright [33:40]

2. Amber’s Dilemma: Long-Distance Love and Career in Washington

Amber, a 28-year-old, grapples with balancing her thriving career and community in Washington with her love for a man living in rural New York. Chelsea suggests carefully planning visits, considering remote work opportunities, and maintaining her strong community ties while exploring the possibility of a bi-coastal lifestyle.

Notable Quotes:

• "If you're in love and you know it and you feel it, and you're 40 and you're ready to take a plunge for somebody, then you gotta do what you gotta do." – Chelsea Handler [37:14]
• "Maybe, Trump, you exist, because I wrote this death Mass and is premiering at the perfect time. So you're just the backdrop to my music." – Rufus Wainwright [13:38]

3. Katie’s Conflict: Cutting Off a Non-accepting Mother

Katie, 35, seeks guidance on whether to maintain no contact with her 70-year-old mother who disapproved of her interracial relationship. Chelsea and Rufus advise expressing her feelings through writing, considering the long-term emotional impact, and prioritizing her own healing and well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• "Write a letter expressing how that made you feel...send her an email with no expectations." – Chelsea Handler [50:11]
• "You have to forgive them at some point, you know, however you can." – Rufus Wainwright [53:08]

4. Casey’s Concern: Boyfriend Violating Privacy

Casey, 28, is distressed by her boyfriend reading her private journal and sharing its contents with others. Chelsea and Rufus unequivocally label this behavior as a significant red flag, stressing the importance of ending relationships where privacy is violated.

Notable Quotes:

• "No, that's an invasion of privacy. Like, that is a reason to actually end a relationship." – Chelsea Handler [61:00]
• "You gotta get far away from this person." – Rufus Wainwright [61:00]

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Conclusion and Upcoming Events

As the episode nears its end, Rufus enthusiastically discusses the upcoming performance of "Dream Requiem" at Disney Hall, highlighting the technical rehearsals and the unique addition of the grand organ inspired by the venue. Chelsea humorously mentions her upcoming European tour, "Abroad," in search of love, adding a lighthearted close to the deeply emotional and insightful conversation.

Notable Quote:
"I'm coming to Reykjavik. I'm coming to Dublin. I'm coming to the UK. I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June." – Chelsea Handler [62:11]

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Key Takeaways

• Artistic Resilience: Rufus Wainwright's journey underscores the interplay between personal struggles and creative output, highlighting the therapeutic power of music and composition.

• Support and Acceptance: The episode emphasizes the importance of unconditional support in personal relationships, especially when navigating sensitive topics like sexuality and gender identity.

• Setting Boundaries: Clear boundaries and respecting privacy are crucial in maintaining healthy relationships, as illustrated by the advice given to Casey.

• Forgiveness and Healing: The conversation with Katie serves as a poignant reminder of the long-term benefits of forgiveness and the necessity of emotional healing in overcoming familial conflicts.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "Nobody asks me what's going on with my house..." – Chelsea Handler [03:45]
• "He's an amazing singer, songwriter, composer, and legendary beauty." – Chelsea Handler [04:47]
• "As I fell in love with the poem, it's all about the end of the world..." – Rufus Wainwright [10:33]
• "Jane turned to me and she said, Rufus, I'm doing it." – Rufus Wainwright [12:28]
• "If you're in love and you know it and you feel it..." – Chelsea Handler [37:14]
• "Write a letter expressing how that made you feel..." – Chelsea Handler [50:11]
• "You gotta get far away from this person." – Rufus Wainwright [61:00]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "Dear Chelsea" beautifully balances humor, personal vulnerability, and profound artistic discussion. Chelsea's candid interactions with Rufus Wainwright provide listeners with both entertainment and valuable life advice, making it a memorable installment that resonates on multiple levels.

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Note: For more detailed insights and full conversations, consider listening to the full episode available on iHeartPodcasts.

Transcript

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

Morning brings a fresh new energy. And no matter what the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Chelsea Handler]

We get the best start to the day because we started together.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Watch the Today show weekdays at 7:00am on NBC.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Katherine.

[Katherine]

Hi Chelsea. How are you today?

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm good. Doug has diarrhea. Oh yes. He's in Canada. My friend Cynthia texted me this morning saying she felt like Doug was depressed when I left and I said, I doubt it. And then she said, no, he really misses you. And then she goes, actually, he hasn't eaten his food all day. And I go, oh my God. Oh my God.

[Katherine]

You gave him your stomach bug.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, at first I thought, he does love me, he does love me. And then I was like, wait a second, I had food poisoning. And then I was like, did he get food poisoning? Anyway, he had diarrhea on her couch and on her car. So I was like, okay, I'll be back sooner than later to get him anyway. I was like, we can replace all of those things. We can replace your house. We can replace. She goes, he's so high. He's got such energy. And I go, just put him outside while he's sick. He's happy to stay outside. He'd sleep outside. He prefers it so fucking hot with all that hair. And she's like, okay. But just so you know, like, bears come through the backyard. And I was like, jesus. Oh. I was like, well, I mean, he'll probably find his whole family. Those are his ancestors. You know what I mean?

[Katherine]

It's so true. He's bas.

[Chelsea Handler]

He is a bear. So I don't know how long he's gonna last in Canada, but I have people.

[Katherine]

Hopefully long enough to come back to la.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, he might not get in. With the fucking way immigration is going, who knows if they'll stop him at the border. I mean, he is black. Who knows? They'll make up some fucking excuse. You know what I mean?

[Katherine]

Where are his papers?

[Chelsea Handler]

I know. Well, I do have his paperwork, actually, ironically. I should probably sell that to somebody. Well, not sell it. Give it to somebody. Listen to me. I would just like to say that it's early in the morning today and I got myself a parking spot all by myself. I paid the meter. I did it effectively.

[Katherine]

And it wasn't even in the normal place.

[Chelsea Handler]

It wasn't in a normal place. I parked up the street. We're at a studio. I went by my real house this morning to check on things. There was a lot of drilling going on. God. Mm.

[Katherine]

I was telling Brad this morning, I'm like, I don't even know what exactly is happening at the house.

[Chelsea Handler]

I just. Nobody asks me anymore and nobody should. Nobody asks me what's going on with my house. If you're listening to this and you wanna rent a big house in Los Angeles for a lot of money, hit me up on DMs. Because, yeah, you. I'm gonna rent that house out. Great. Until I make my money back and I'll live in Whistler or Spain or, I don't know, Guantanamo Bay, you know, whatever place welcomes me.

[Katherine]

Exactly. People can rent that if they're fans of yours or RFK Jr.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, it's great. Yes. This is a. What is it? A cautionary tale. Cautionary tale.

[Rufus Wainwright]

True.

[Chelsea Handler]

I had one great house building experience and I got Very confident, overconfident. And then I now have another house building experience and I will never, ever build anything again.

[Katherine]

Yeah, well, speaking of Trump's cabinet, we have one of Trump's favorite people's cabinet.

[Chelsea Handler]

They shouldn't even be called a cabinet. That's like, that's a fucking thing. That's an item you'd find in my house that doesn't work.

[Katherine]

Yeah, it's not a cabinet.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's like a fucking broken toaster is his cabinet. Yes. We have somebody who has gotten. Who has had friction with Trump on today. He's an amazing singer, songwriter, composer, and legendary beauty. Please welcome Rufus Wainwright. Hi. Good morning. Hello.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Hello.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi. Oh. Oh, hi, Rufus. Oh, wow, look at you. You're like me. Way early.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yep. No, way early, but.

[Chelsea Handler]

And for a musician, no less, I mean, this is what, what is happening.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Well, I have. I have a 14 year old child.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes, I know about that. You have to wake up early to breastfeed.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yeah. I have to be on call basically 247 for any kind of horrific situation.

[Chelsea Handler]

Absolutely, I understand.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. Is that better? Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

You look very thin. You look really thin on this. Is that what you said you're going for?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Well, I was more going for Marlene Dietrich, but thin will work.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, Finn and Marlene Dietrich. Rufus, first of all. Well, there's a lot to talk about.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Dream Requiem, which is what we're here to talk about. But first I want to just to mention a couple of things. I know that the Trump campaign used your song Hallelujah, your Leonard Cohen cover, Hallelujah. And you were pissed about that. So I was curious about that too. Like, obviously your agents and managers or whomever get involved. Right?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was. I mean, I was pissed, but I think above pissed, I was more just sort of flabbergasted and completely, you know, shocked in the sense that just. Cause it was also so weird how it was used. Like it wasn't just used as a rally, you know, ending thing where people are shaking hands. He turned it into this sort of, you know, group dance slash prayer moment of seeking forgiveness. And. And that just was. Yeah, it was a horrified shock. Shockedness. And then I was pissed.

[Chelsea Handler]

And then, yeah, I'm shocked and horrified. First of all, I'm not Catholic or religious in any way, shape or form. I'm shocked and horrified when they use any sort of religious backdrop or there are people praying with him. I find that so offensive to real religion.

[Rufus Wainwright]

I might have. I have a little bit of a scoop for you, though.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, Great.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Regarding this, I don't think I've talked about this yet, but. And it's sort of out there a little bit. But so. So that happened. Right. And then. And then this is before he won the election, or. Yeah, I guess he won the election.

[Chelsea Handler]

He won. Rufus, we're living in a. We're living in hell. I'm. And to answer your previous question, I'm in Canada right now.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. Yeah, I'm in Canada right now. For real. I'm in Canada.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, you're Canadian. I'm trying to become Canadian.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Okay. Are you. Are you really in Canada? Where are you?

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm in Whistler. Yeah. I spend my money.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Okay. Okay. Okay. So we're both. We're both in exile and probably will remain so for a few years, but no, anyways. But what happened is that he won the election. And then one of the first visitors that he had was Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada, our ex prime minister. And so he went down, and I'd met Justin a couple of times, you know, on Grindr, and I'm just kidding, and. But anyway, so then I got a call a few days later from Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister, telling me that he said, I got this funny story for you. And so I answered the phone. Yes, Mr. Prime Minister, make me laugh. And he said that when he was down in Mar a Lago, they were sitting together, and at one point, Hallelujah came up on the sound system in the ballroom. But it was Andrea Bocelli's version of Hallelujah, the song. At which point Trump turned to Justin Trudeau and you know Rufus's version, right? And then Justin Trudeau said, oh, yes, I know Rufus version, but you have to give Jeff Buckley some credit because he's the first person to cover the song. At which point I'm on the phone with Justin Trudeau, like, wait a minute, you brought up the Jeff Berkeley. Like, I started to. Whatever. I was a bit riled internally.

[Chelsea Handler]

I also find it a bit surprising that Trump is aware of different covers of that song.

[Rufus Wainwright]

I don't know. Well, he is, but this is. So then Justin said to him, yes, but you have to give Jeff Buckley some credit. At which point Trump said, oh, okay. Well, maybe 20 minutes later, Trump walked up to Justin and said, you know, Rufus's version is really the best version. At which point Justin went, yes, it is the best version. So in terms of, like, Hallelujah versions, I'm a total Trumpian, but that's about it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well, I'm glad I Mean, what an endorsement. Trump believes that yours is the best version of Hallelujah.

[Rufus Wainwright]

I know. I know.

[Chelsea Handler]

So you got that, I guess. Yeah.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. No, that's the. Yeah. Look, I've been seeking that for years, and it's all I've ever wanted, really, is to be acknowledged as the greatest singer of Hallelujah. Forget my operas, forget my children.

[Chelsea Handler]

Absolutely. You know, so let's talk Dream Requiem, because I know that you have. Jane Fonda is going to. Is she narrating it? Is that the proper terminology?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yes. What it is, is that I. Many years ago, I discovered this amazing poem by Byron called Darkness, and he wrote it in 1814, which was this year that there was this incredible, insane Earth, not earthquake. What's another thing that we're about to have economic crisis. Volcano.

[Chelsea Handler]

Volcano. Okay.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Volcanic. Volcano. That went up, that erupted. That went off in Southeast Asia, and the entire world was dark for a year. There was no season, and everybody thought the world was ending. It was the year that they wrote that Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein, so it was like the most kind of Gothic.

[Chelsea Handler]

Year, and that was 1814, you said.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, it's the most Gothic year. Except for this year. We've now eclipsed that. But. So then he wrote that poem.

[Chelsea Handler]

Took that poem.

[Rufus Wainwright]

So as I fell in love with the poem, it's all about the end of the world, and it's about, like, ecological collapse. And then I was composing this Requiem Mass, and I decided to put them together, and I was maybe gonna compose the music to the English words, but English is crap, and unless it's, like, rock and roll or rap, it sounds terrible if it's sung operatically. So I quickly shifted it and said, oh, well, we'll have a narrator, which in the end, has turned out to be an amazing kind of trick. I don't want to say trick, ploy. Where. You know, because it premiered in Paris, and we had Meryl Streep there as the narrator, and that recording is available on Warner Classics and. Yeah. And Jane is doing it in la. Have you heard anything about how she got the job?

[Chelsea Handler]

No. Tell us.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Well, I. Look, Jane and I have. I know you're friends, too, or you've hung out. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I'd run into her over the years here and there, but we never quite, you know, bonded. But we were at this. I had just the Requiem in Paris with Meryl, and we were at the Hammer Gala in la, and I went there, and I was with my husband and Joran, and we arrived and I saw Jane, and we Kind of ended up in just the same corner. We just started talking, and it started to click, you know, we just started to jive, as they say. Is it jive or jibe? I don't know. I'm so white.

[Chelsea Handler]

Anyways, I think it's jibe, but I'm also white, so who fucking knows?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Okay. We were doing something cool, and it was weird, but so we're talking, and then I said to her, and I started talking about the Dream Requiem, and I said, yeah, no, we did it. We did it in Paris with Meryl. And actually, it's coming to la. We don't have a narrator yet, but it's gonna come to Disney Hall. It's with the Master Chorale. And at the end of that little speech, Jane turned to me and she said, rufus, I'm doing it. I was like, excuse me? She was like, no, I'm gonna. I will do it with you. She immediately hired herself, which, I mean, I was overjoyed, also a little shocked. And then it's just from there on, you know, we've been hanging out a lot, and she's come to a few of my shows, and she's just so. Like, when she wants something or loves something.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. She's very present.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm just. I don't know. I felt very. It's been one of the great, great things in my life in the midst of all of this darkness and stuff. So.

[Chelsea Handler]

So when is this performance at LA?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, this performance is in LA. It's May 4th at Disney Hall. It's also with the Master Chorale, which is probably the greatest choir in America. Wow.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Even I know who they are.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. No, they're amazing. And look, it's something I don't in any way. Look, as much as Trump likes to think that he rules the world, I kind of would like to say, well, maybe, Trump, you exist, because I wrote this death Mass and is premiering at the perfect time. So you're just the backdrop to my music. So I'm kind of trying to turn it around because it is eerie how, you know, just the whole, you know, the apocalyptic dark. You know, it's a perfect thing to be putting out right now. That's all I want to say.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, it's also, you know, I was. I don't know where I read this, what book I read this in, probably my favorite book, Letting Go, but it's about being like, you know, even in times of strife or when the world is a dark place, there are people who could create art and People who can thrive within the. The darkness and not off of the darkness. I'm not talking about like to the tech billionaires on all of that. I'm saying people who can thrive, who make something happen even amidst all the darkness and continue to thrive.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, well, I am very much fueled, as you said, not fueled by the darkness, but I am. How can I say this? I am attuned to that sensibility in my work. I've always loved opera. I've always loved written ballads and very intense music. So I love. So, yes, artistically I'm in a. I'm in a very good place. But it was funny when you bring up the tech bros because they have no artistic sense whatsoever. I mean, what's so kind of horrific about that whole situation is that their idea of art is like them dressed as the Mona Lisa or something, you know, with like a banana in the background. You know, they just have no aesthetic sense or anything. So they're not even, I don't know, like artistically they cannot be. Yeah. So it's up to me.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right, Right.

[Rufus Wainwright]

It's up to true artists, you know.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. To actually show up.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. And they think they're artists. They think they're artists. They think that they're.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do they think they're artists, though? I mean, they're clearly devoid of.

[Rufus Wainwright]

They think they're everything. They think they're just everything, you know?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, right.

[Rufus Wainwright]

They think they're sexy too, which is pretty.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well, that's the most revolting part. The sex, the assumed sex appeal is so revolting. I mean, I can't think of anyone, any group of guys that are less fuckable than all of those guys. Talk to me about Dream Requiem. So tell me how you. First of all, I hate this question when I'm asked how I would to describe one of my shows, but I'm gonna ask you without saying those words.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I. Look, I'm a big, as I said before, classical music fan. And the first piece that really got me going when I was 13 was Verdi's Requiem. The composer, Verdi, he wrote this amazing Requiem. It's one of the great ones. And I just bec. Obsessed with it. And it sort of began my whole journey in that realm. It was a little freakish for my dad especially, who's not a big opera fan, to see his 13 year old son in the corner in the dark with headphones on, listening to Day of Wrath and stuff like that. But I stuck it out, or everybody stuck it out. And now I've written Several classical works and also pop works and all that stuff. And now I just feel like it's time to give back to that. I will say, are you Catholic at all, or you're probably anti. You hate.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I'm not anything at all.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Were you brought up Catholic or.

[Chelsea Handler]

I was brought up Jewish, actually.

[Rufus Wainwright]

You're right. Okay. Sorry. Okay, there you go. But I am not anything. I'm not even baptized Catholic. I was brought up in a Catholic environment. My mother was. Was Catholic, and I went to Catholic school. And how was that? Well, you know, it wasn't great, in a sense, but it was really. They really ingrained it in you in the sense that I was a little shocked when I went to compose it and I was working with all of those prayers, you know, the Latin mass.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Just how fast it came out and how it's just, like, wired into me. For better or for worse. Probably more for worse in a lot of ways.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's how I am with state capitals. Those are wired into me.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Sounds nice. So, anyway, so I just started composing it, and then. And it just came out really fast. And it's one of these things where the idea came, and then I said, okay, that sounds like a nice idea. I'd like to see if anybody's interested. And we asked Paris first, And then within two months, there was 10 commissioners, 10 cities all over the world that wanted to do it. There was a real kind of need for it. It was right after Covid, so I think people were. Whatever. They were pretty gloomy.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rufus Wainwright]

And so I think they could relate to that. The other thing, which I don't. Do you know anything about the dog situation?

[Chelsea Handler]

Uh, no, I don't know anything about anything except.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Okay, well. Okay, well, this is. This is interesting because, you know, the Requiem is. It's dedicated to two individuals. The first one is dedicated to Verdi, the composer, because you know that. But then the second dedication is to Puccini, who most people would think is an opera composer, which he is, but Puccini. And I say this in the thing used to be our little dog. We had a dog named Puccini. And actually within the poem, Byron's poem, Byron adored dogs. And in the poem, there's a dog that dies in the middle of the poem. It's kind of the most touching moment of the piece or one of the many touching moments. And we. My husband and I, we had a little dog named Puccini, and so we dedicated it also to the little dog. So. Yeah, so there's a big dog element to the piece as well, for dog lovers. So if you hate opera.

[Chelsea Handler]

But it's a whole opera, right? It's not just one piece.

[Rufus Wainwright]

No, it's one piece.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's only one piece.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a Mass. And it starts with some of the poem and then it goes into the. Into the mass. Like, the choir sings all the religious mass stuff, and then the poem is recited by the narrator. And at a certain point they intertwine. But it's 75 minutes. Like, there's no intermission or anything. It's just there. You're in and you're out and. Yeah, so it's. I'm very excited about it. I mean, I've been fighting years and years and years to make it into, you know, the classical world. And it seems like I've done it with this piece of music, which is very exciting. Of course, right at the time that I did that, I wrote a musical in London called Opening Night which totally flopped. So I kind of. The Broadway world kind of, or the West End world in London kind of, you know, gave me the boot. Right. As, you know, the classical world opens. So it's always. It's been an interesting journey. You always gotta have the door shut down on you at some point.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, a door shut down on you right before a different door opens.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. There you go. Yeah. You can never have just the door open and it's all gone.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's a cliche because. Or, well, an adage, I suppose, because it's true. I mean, that does happen. Talk to me about artistically, how that makes you feel. Like when you are rejected and then you are accepted into a different world, how do you balance those emotions?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. No, look, when I did the musical Opening Night, which, by the way, we did record and we're releasing it, the soundtrack album, and the songs are great. And I think the piece was actually kind of great. It was just a little out there for. It was based on the John Cassavetes movie at Opening Night. Anyways, so I was so depressed when that whole thing collapsed and to the point where, you know, I had to go on medication and stuff. Like, it was very. It was pretty dark. I mean, there was a lot of other things happening, but that was, you know, kind of took me down and.

[Chelsea Handler]

Has that happened to you before, professionally, creatively?

[Rufus Wainwright]

It's happened to me once before, but I didn't kind of seek treatment for it. I just sort of white knuckled it through the whole thing. But this time I just needed a little bit of help. And I got it, and it was great. You know, I was able to come back. But right as that was happening, you know, the Requiem was premiering in Paris, and I had, you know, Meryl Streep there sitting next to me listening to it for the first time. And I was able to appreciate how special the whole thing was and how lucky I was to be in that situation. But, yes, there was this gnawing sort of sense which sort of limited me in my. In my joy at the time of my greatest triumph.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right. So. But let's talk about that, because I think that is very relatable to, you know, not only people in the industry, but I think people, you know, a lot of things, you get good news or you get bad news, and it's hard to kind of pick yourself up from that. And, like, when you look back at that time, do you think that there was anything you would have done differently or that you will do differently in the future if something like that were to happen again?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Well, I mean, look, I'm speaking of religions and stuff. I mean, I don't want to do it, but I guess, you know, you have to be sort of Buddhist about it and say, you know, you have to let go of that attachment and that kind of idea of being, you know, fulfilled by. Yes, your ego or whatever. And so that's probably the wise way to do it, is just to not try to feel nothing a little bit, in a sense, or just be, you know, very low key about it. But, you know, look, then I wrote 10 songs in my depths, in the depths of my sadness, that I'm now gonna put on a pop record. And so it's also. For an artist, I think that's actually more what I struggle with is just. And that I've realized now in my 50s, is that there is this kind of machine that I've created where, you know, I get depressed and then I write songs and then I feel better, but then I gotta get depressed in order to write a song. And then in order, you know, it's this cycle that, you know, certainly creates a lot of material, but it is a little bit diabolical at times.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes, I'm sure. I'm sure it is. I mean, that's the life of an artist, typically.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Right? And it's a good. And I mean, I think we're fortunate. But when I see people, young people especially, when they're like, oh, I want to be an artist. And, you know, my first comment will usually be, say, well, you're not going to. You can't you can't tell me you want to be an artist. You have to be an artist. Like, you just. You are an artist and good luck.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rufus Wainwright]

It's not easy. It's not easy.

[Chelsea Handler]

No. It's not like anyone really takes care of you as an artist emotionally. And I'm not sure in what world you are taking care of emotionally unless it's by your spouse or, you know, your family. But at a certain point, when you go through all of the highs and lows of having any career, a public career also, you start to learn to rely on yourself for your emotional well being. You're like, no one can help me with this. Yes, you can talk to a therapist and of course you can, you know, go on medication in, like, incremental times or whenever you need it, whatever, but no one takes care of you. And like, I think as an artist, there's this attitude. At least I had this attitude younger, like, when things didn't go right. Like, you fix it. You deal. You do the. And like, yes, while that can be many people's responsibilities in your life, you actually just have to take the emotional burden of everything. It's your name on it. It's your failure or success. And then it's your pressure.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. And then it's. And then in the end, it's your glory when it comes to fruition. But at that glorious moment, there's always a little bit of. There's always a chink in the armor, which. Yeah, yeah. Which is just the way it is.

[Chelsea Handler]

It would be great to figure out a way. And I'm good at this sometimes, but not foolproof. To welcome the failure, to welcome the pain, you know, like, bring it on. Because every time you have a failure, we all know that something, a rainbow is around the corner. Like, something happens.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Well, I mean, I have a little thing to do with that, which I kind of relate to Yin and yang, where anytime I'm happy, anytime I'm somewhat euphoric, I just always say, look, I'm going to take a little piece of this and hide it somewhere so that when I'm in the dark, I can, you know, pull it out and use it as a kind of flashlight. So. So I, I, so. But I think it's something you have to cognitively do and practice.

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

All right, we're gonna take a break, and we'll be right back with Rufus Wainwright.

[Katherine]

If you'd like advice from Chelsea, write in to [e-mail] we'd love to hear your questions for any juicy story you'd like advice on this week, we're specifically looking for questions about surrogacy and fertility issues. So if you've gone through IVF or are planning to, please write [e-mail] Unlike.

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

Morning brings a fresh new energy.

[Rufus Wainwright]

This is Today with and no matter.

[Katherine]

What the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Rufus Wainwright]

When things are tough, we talk about it.

[Chelsea Handler]

When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it.

[Katherine]

Because today is where it's all happening. We get the best start to every morning because we start it together.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC.

[Chelsea Handler]

And we're back with Rufus Wainwright. Hi. Okay, we're gonna take some callers. Rufus, are you down? Are you ready to rumble?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, I'm ready to rumble.

[Katherine]

Well, before we get to advice, Rufus, I have to tell you that my husband, who's the engineer here, who was floating around here on the Zoom, you are actually the reason that we met.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Oh, really?

[Katherine]

In 2005, I went to go see your concert at Ravinia.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Oh, wow.

[Katherine]

In August in 2005. And was going with a friend. We met at the friend's house ahead of time, and who should walk out but this dreamy tall guy. And here we are 20 years later.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Oh, that's so sweet. Oh, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

[Chelsea Handler]

I saw you, Rufus, at some small place in Santa Monica a few years ago. Maybe not a few, maybe 10. It was really fun, though. It was only like it was a small room with like a hundred people and everyone was getting down to the.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Oh, it was. It was. I think it was. Yeah, it was McCabe's or something.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes, yes, yes, it was McCabe's.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yeah, those are. Those are some. Those are some. Those were great shows. Those were fun shows.

[Katherine]

All right, well, our first question is just an email, not a caller, so this question comes from Tina. Subject line is son's sexual preference. Dear Chelsea, I've been a fan of your podcast for a number of years. I love what you stand for and the advice that you give on your podcast. I listen every morning when I walk my dog before work. I'm a 47 year old single mom with three children who are all grown. I like to think of myself as very open minded and progressive when it comes to most things. I've always made it very clear to my children that whatever road they choose in their sexuality is their choice and free from judgment. And then this happened. My 21 year old son told me tonight that he's dating a trans person, a woman who has been transitioning to be a man. I maintained complete composure and acted cool, but inside I was really just feeling a little bit of turmoil.

[Chelsea Handler]

I love that honesty. I maintained composure.

[Katherine]

Yes, my son is the most beautiful, sweet, kind, and best person ever. And all I want for him is to be happy. I've always known or suspected that he was gay or otherwise, but I guess I'm just scared for him, but at the same time, so proud of him for just loving another human, regardless of their sexual identity or preference. I guess I'm asking for help on navigating through our extended family, some of which, including my Sister and her husband are very conservative. My mama bear instincts are out, and I think I'm feeling more protective than judgmental for him, but also feeling a little bit confused of my own feelings about the situation. Many thanks, Tina.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think this is easy, Tina. Like, I don't think you have to make any proclamations or announcements to your families, like, your extended family. Like, first of all, get to know your son's new love interest and spend time with them. And just keep opening your heart and your mind, because you're gonna learn lots of things that you didn't know about, and that's gonna really normalize the situation and you kind of calling attention to it, too. Even though I understand you're being a protective mama bear. Cause I'm a mother, and I know what that meat feels like. I'm more of a father. But putting an exclamation point on everything, I don't think is helpful. I think you should just act with grace and normalcy. Like, this is normal. When the person, whether or not they realize that they're trans or not is inconsequential to you. Like, that's not something that you need to, like, preface or tell them before. Let them deal with the situation. And when it comes around, I would suggest just going, I didn't think that was information that was necessary. Cause you're protecting. By telling your sister and her husband, who are more conservative, you're protecting them. You're not protecting your son. You're protecting their feelings and making sure they have all the cards. They don't need all the cards. This isn't their love life. This is your son's love life. So all you can do is show up for him in a real, responsible and present way. Rufus, what do you think?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Well, you know, I wanted to. I totally agree with what you're saying. But I also want to sort of praise her for even being, you know, open to stuff. Because my mother, mind you, this was back in the 80s when she found out I was gay. She had a, you know, a cigarette in one hand and a scotch in the other, and she said, rufus, don't tell me something I don't want to hear.

[Chelsea Handler]

Uh, oh.

[Rufus Wainwright]

So I was. You know, that was. That was. So I'm someone who, you know, whenever I. I hear a parent who's, you know, really trying to do the right thing, it's so important and should be really, really celebrated. Because, unfortunately, still, I. You know, I just hear these horror stories with parents who are just out of their mind. You know, when this stuff Comes up. And so you're being the dad, I'm being the mom.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well, perfect. We're perfectly. We're parenting perfectly. I also think, like, open, open, open. Just keep your mind open. Like, you're gonna learn things. You're gonna be surprised by the things you learn. And just be open hearted and open minded.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Be proud of yourself for being open.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, be proud of yourself and just keep thinking like, you know, I understand the protective aspect, but, like, we're not there yet. You don't have to. Don't worry about your son's. Your son's happiness is paramount to anything else. Like, just be open to that and open to understanding his world. And that way you're going to set the foundation for him to be always comfortable coming to you, talking these things, talking to you about these issues. And you want to just, you know, the last thing you want to be is shut out from any of that. So, yes, just move forward with grace and open heartedness.

[Katherine]

Yeah. And I will also say, just like a tiny asterisk. I think she did a really good job just like, containing any fear or confusion that she might have had.

[Chelsea Handler]

Composing herself.

[Katherine]

Yeah, composing herself. But one tiny asterisk. Tina is just on the sexual preference language. You know, nowadays we say more like sexual orientation because it really is. Is part of somebody's identity, not a choice, really that they're making. And I think once you get to know this person, you know, I think the only scary thing is having not ever met a trans person. And once you get to know them, you're like, oh, they're just a person. You know, they just act like everybody else. They're just.

[Rufus Wainwright]

That was. And a sort of end of my. My mother's story, which is kind of nice and maybe it softens it a bit, is that, you know, when she was. When I finally did come out to her, we were in Paris and she went to Notre Dame Cathedral and she was brought up Catholic, so she went and she prayed. And she claims that she got a message from somewhere that said, you know, Rufus is like any other person. You just have to treat him like any other person. And it is that message, I think, that comes out eventually, that we're all just people. And that's it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. That message that needs to be transmitted to the entire world.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yes, yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

That a human being is a human being, regardless of anything else.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yes.

[Katherine]

Well, our next question comes from Amber. Amber says, dear Chelsea, I met someone in the coolest way. We met in a hot tub in Michigan. I live in Washington and He lives in New York. He's my best friend and he totally gets me. I never thought I'd meet someone like him. I know. He is the one. I have a great career in Washington and a fantastic community and friends. He has two kiddos and not the best job prospects where he lives. I'm so torn because I love my life, but I also love him. What do I do? It's important to know I'm turning 40 this year and have never been married. I want to marry this man. Hopeless in Washington. Amber.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Amber. This is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today.

[Caller]

Hi.

[Katherine]

That's so cool.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, so you fell in love in a hot tub in Michigan. You don't want to leave Washington because your whole life is there.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And what state is he in?

[Caller]

He's in New York.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, okay. So you'd have to move to New York. What part of New York?

[Caller]

Like rural northern New York. Like close to the Canadian border.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, okay. Well, that is a pickle because we're not talking about any major city here. Yikes. I mean, that could be good to be close to the border for other reasons.

[Rufus Wainwright]

How far is it from Montreal?

[Caller]

Well, we actually went to Toronto like last month.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Oh. Oh, it's near Toronto. Okay. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. Like he drove. He drove like four hours to Toronto and then I flew to Toronto.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Four hours to Toronto. Okay. That is. That is far.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. I mean, listen, if you're in love and you know it and you feel it, and you're 40 and you're ready to take a plunge for somebody, then you gotta do what you gotta do. I wouldn't wanna move there, but I do. I'm not in love with anyone that lives there.

[Caller]

That is so true. But like, you know, I have like this whole community here. I bought a house, my friends are here. My job is here. Although, will I have a job in a few months? I don't know, because it's grant funded.

[Chelsea Handler]

Lovely.

[Katherine]

Sure. And now I assume that, like, he can't move because of the kids, Right? Like a custody situation.

[Chelsea Handler]

How old are the kids?

[Caller]

11 and two.

[Chelsea Handler]

What? Two? Well, that's another doozy. You're going to raise a two year old with him.

[Caller]

I mean, I used to work with kids. I love kids. I just. I don't want kids. And then he doesn't want anymore. He's had a vasectomy. It's fantastic. Like, I don't have to worry about it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, he sounds like a good, good option. Minus the geography.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Are you interested in sort of being in a child's Life in a major way, even though it's not your own. Does that interest you or.

[Caller]

Totally. I have a lot of have with kids, and I love their kids, and I love being, like, the best friends auntie, you know, but.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Okay.

[Caller]

I don't want to be their mom. They have moms.

[Chelsea Handler]

They're.

[Caller]

They're good.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. So if you lose your job in a couple of months, say that happens. You know, I hope it doesn't happen, but say that does happen. Does that. Would that make it easier for you to move to New York?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, it would. It's just. I think it's not even more not even about the job or the location. It's just when you're at my age, it's harder to, you know, make friends and build this community. And I have, like, built this amazing friendship and a community of people here, and it's taken a while to build that. Right. And then you go to rural New York and you don't know anybody. It's going to be really hard to make those friendships. But also, he's like, my best friend, so there's that. And I could always visit and fly, and I have that ability.

[Chelsea Handler]

And you can't just keep it long distance.

[Caller]

For the time being, we are. Yeah, we're making plans. We're seeing each other, like, every other month or so. We talk every night. And we've kind of built, like, little things that are special to us for. For being long distance. So I could. I told him, I said I could do this for about a year, but then that's it. I'm done.

[Chelsea Handler]

What do you. When you say you built little things, what does that mean? Like, what's an example of built little things?

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So, like, every morning I send him a picture of what I'm wearing to work that day. Just like every day, I always send.

[Chelsea Handler]

You a dick pic.

[Caller]

Those are fun, actually, but only from sometimes. I've never wanted them before, actually, but now I'm like, oh, I don't mind them.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm still waiting to meet the guy that makes me want to see a dick pic.

[Caller]

I never thought I would be that way either. Tulsi, seriously. But he. It is.

[Katherine]

Amber, you are in love.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Is there a way for you to go there for like, two months or three months, like an extended vacation so you have a sort of a sense of what a long. Just being there over, like, a week is like.

[Caller]

I wish. I'm gonna. The nice thing is I'm actually gonna go next month to, like, see where he lives and See the neighborhood and just see what it would be like for like a weekend. But because of my job, I'm a program director and they need me in the office to handle my staff. It'd be cool if I had like a remote job and could kind of be bi coastal.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I think that you should definitely a. If you're okay with this for a year, great, take a year. Take a year, Go see his neighborhood when the next time you're going there and spend the weekend there. But you have to plan a time where you're gonna spend a longer duration of time there in this year that you're talking about. And if you do lose your job, then that opens you up to get a job where you can be bi coastal. So then you can have the best of both worlds. Cause is there a situation where you would keep your house in washing and then also kind of go back and forth if you had a bicoastal job? I mean, that's what you mean, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think I could totally manage that. I have a dog, but I have a place where she could go that she loves. So like I could. I could make it work for a couple years if I wanted to.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I think that's what you should do. I wouldn't make any rash decisions just yet. You know what I mean? Just start spending time there. Spend as much time there as you can so you can really get a feel for the place and. And see if that excites you. Like, are you gonna be okay living there? Hopefully you can just be bi coastal because I think so many long distance relationships are successful because of the distance. I know we all wanna like jump into each other's arms and everyone wants to shack up. But it's also there's something to be said for missing each other, for keeping the fire burning, you know, for not living with somebody all the time and getting used to all their shit and them throwing wet towels on the fucking dry bed. All of that stuff, you know what I mean? Takes kind of the romance out of.

[Rufus Wainwright]

And start to resent their dick pics.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, you're gonna start to resent his dick pics, but. Cause how many months have you guys been seeing each other? Now as we speak.

[Katherine]

So that's.

[Caller]

It's complicated. Cause I've known him for a year and when we've been talking and seeing each other, but we've kind of like made it official like last month sometime.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. Yeah. So give it some more time, please. Just be smart about it. You're 40 years old. You're not gonna. I just want you to look at that community that you built, you know, in Washington, like, as a very sacred thing. Like, a lot of people yearn for that. A lot of people don't have that. So I really want you to make sure you, like, that's more valuable, in my opinion, in your life than anything or any love affair. That is your community, and that is your group. So just be very respectful of that and don't toss it away lightly.

[Caller]

Oh, no, I wouldn't. Yeah. No. I have been so lucky and blessed with my friendship. And the friends that I have, they've. They've really stepped up. Like, I've had surgeries, and they've stepped up to help with my dog and me, and just. I just feel so lucky to have what I have here. And that's why it's not so easy as it might be for some people to be like, oh, it's not a big deal. I'll just go. I'll just move. And it's like, I have everything here, you know?

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, well, just keep that in mind with everything. Right? Like, put that at the top of your list. That is at the top of your list. List. Even your love affair is number two.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

So remember that.

[Caller]

I will. Yeah. No, that's super helpful to hear. I really appreciate it, because I've been really stuck. But I will say, Chelsea, you are the reason I'm not married.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, can. Thank you. I appreciate that kind of feedback.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Oh.

[Caller]

Like, I always thought when I was, like, in my 20s, I had to, you know, get married and let a man take care of me. And I realize now I'm like, I take care of myself. I can pay my own bills, and I can buy my own house and my own car, and I can be the breadwinner.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Rufus and I were just talking before you came on about taking care of ourselves emotionally as artists. Right. And I think this is also a good kind of point of interest to talk about is that women are. We're all able to take care of ourselves in every possible way, yet we're always looking for someone to lean on for, whether it's financially or emotionally or spiritually. Like, we want someone who knows more than we do or that we can go to when we have the capabilities within us to take care of ourselves in every way. So I think that's a great reminder, and I think a lot of women who are listening today are gonna respond to that and think about, are they taking care of themselves? Have they built the life that they want? For themselves, because we all have the ability to do that. It's about. About going to a place that you love, you know, building your community, building your friendships. That does take time. It doesn't happen instantly. Not for everyone, anyway, and certainly, I'm sure, not for you. Right. Did it happen right away or did it take time?

[Caller]

I definitely, like, took time where I realized, like, oh, I can buy a house. I can do it on my own. And I've been on my own since I was, like, 16. So it took a while to, like, figure out that I didn't need a man to, like, rescue me, that I could just rescue myself and I could do it all and it would be fine. And it's been great. I love my life, like I said, you know, And I don't need someone to pay my bills, because I can pay them, you know, I can do it all, and I don't need anybody else. But it. It's the. It'd be nice to have someone by my side.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes, absolutely.

[Caller]

I don't need anybody.

[Chelsea Handler]

Great.

[Caller]

It's just like having that best friend that's just walking alongside you in life.

[Chelsea Handler]

Absolutely. And they can walk alongside you, you know, across the country. It's not like you're across the world for the time being anyway, so. Right. You know, walk. Just picture each other walking. Picture him and you walking towards each other at a very slow pace.

[Katherine]

I love it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Okay, well, that sounds like you've got a plan. You're gonna wait a little bit, you're gonna wait a year, figure it out, spend some more time there, and we're in agreement. We're all in accord. Okay.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, great. Love it. Thanks for calling in.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Thank you, everyone.

[Caller]

Have a good day.

[Chelsea Handler]

Bye. Well, she was probably the most sensible person that we've had call in for advice ever.

[Katherine]

Yes.

[Rufus Wainwright]

And FYI, I want someone to pay my bills.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know I'm at the point where I would also like that, too. Rufus. Let's fucking be honest. I've been paying my bills and a lot of other people's bills for a really fucking long time. I would like to commingle funds with another very wealthy person.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Katherine]

Well, our next caller is Katie. Katie is 35. She says you're Chelsea. I know I'm not the only one in this situation, but it sure feels that way sometimes. I have one sibling, my twin brother, who's married, and they've blessed me with a nephew and a little niece. So that relationship factors into my question because it's just my brother and I I haven't spoken to my mom or dad. He's more just collateral damage since I can't get to him without her being a part of it. Since November 2021, my relationship with my mom has been complicated for a long time. But the final straw was how she interfered with my relationship with the love of my life and interracial relationship. She never fully accepted. We've since split for other reasons, but it doesn't change how she acted. Yeah, after giving her too many chances, I finally cut contact. And honestly, my life has been better forever.

[Caller]

It.

[Katherine]

Here's the problem. She just turned 70. And I know time isn't infinite. I feel at peace with staying no contact. The idea of getting that call one day where it's too late makes me wonder, will I regret not trying? Am I just grieving the mother I wish I had? Or should I make some sort of move before it's too late? Or is this just one of those painful realities you have to sit with? Would love to hear your take, Katie.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, this is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today. First of all, I find that kind of behavior, like any sort of racist, misogynist, kind of anything that falls under that umbrella to be kind of unforgivable. You can learn and make mistakes and come back, and that's fine. But if that's just the way you're gonna be, and that's your attitude. So I think that what you could do to just get your feelings down on paper is to write, like, now that you're not in the relationship, to let her know. Does she know that you're not in the relationship anymore?

[G]

Yeah, she did. My brother let them know. But a little bit of a plot twist. We have gotten back together, so it's a little bit.

[Katherine]

It's still the issue.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, okay, great. Yeah. Which is great for me.

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[G]

I mean, I'm so happy, and my brother and his family are really supportive of us. And so, you know, I'm just.

[Chelsea Handler]

I don't know.

[G]

I just feel like I'm in this weird. I was going along fine, and then all of a sudden, it was like. I just. When she turned 70, I was just like, oh, my God. I had this weird pressure, like, I need to do something. I don't know. But I'm so curious what you think about if it's okay to just stay. I mean, if I had it my way, I would just continue the way I've been continuing. It's been really good for me to have no contact, but I'm like, am I missing an opportunity for growth here.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think you have an opportunity to write down how that made you feel and to write down kind of like now that you're looking back at the situation, regardless that you got back together. That's great. Good for you. I'm glad you guys worked it out. But just upon reflection, now that you've had time, how long has it been since you had. You said November 2021, right? So that's been enough years to have a reflection. I'm sure she's had some thoughts about it, too. So I think it'd be nice to write a letter, like, send her an email or a written letter however you see fit, just expressing how that made you feel. How your own mother could turn against you based on the color of someone's skin. Not in a vitriolic way, but just in a confounded way. Like, you are my mother. You were supposed to love me unconditionally for the rest of my life and support me and guide me. And to find out that my mother had these feelings about someone makes me question everything I was raised with. You know, this makes me question the kind of person I am. I believed in you. I believed in you and dad. And the fact that I. That this issue in this day and age is keeping you from me, like, however you wanna frame it, but, like, use that as a kind of measuring stick to really just get all of your thoughts out so that they're not weighing on you so much. And put it over to her. Send her an email with no expectations.

[G]

Okay. That.

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[G]

I mean, you hit the nail on the head as far as my feelings about. Yeah, like, I have mommy issues, but, like, as an adult, I feel like it's very. It was so jarring when that all happened.

[Rufus Wainwright]

And.

[G]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And also to maybe to posit a question. Like, I would also love to understand how you can. Do you still feel this way? Do you really feel differently about your daughter? Like, help me understand how you were raised and what you were made to believe so that I can gain a better understanding of where you are right now. Throw her some questions that she can actually have to answer for herself. And then she's really gonna have to contemplate. How do I explain feeling this way?

[G]

Okay. I love that advice. It seems so on the nose to, like, write a letter, and that's usually how, you know, I. But that makes a lot of sense, and I think it would get. I think there's some leftover feelings that have come to the surface, and I. I really like that idea of just Writing it down. I don't even need to send it to her. But at least having, you know, putting it on paper. I really like that idea.

[Chelsea Handler]

Put it on paper. And if you do send it to her then. And then. And you never hear back from her, then that's your answer. And if you do, and you never know, you never know in their old age what kind of, like, realizations they come to and places that they go to. You might be surprised, but don't expect anything. Just try to exhaust what's inside of you with relation to losing your mom in the way that you have, because it's kind of unforgivable, you know, like, that is really hurtful.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, I would just say that. And this is more for way down the line from now. You're obviously a young, young person, at least compared to me, so you've got some time on your hands, which is great.

[Chelsea Handler]

But Rufus is 107, by the way.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. And I'm a dead composer, so anyways. But I, you know, I have a lot of friends who are. And I'm, you know, 51 to admit it, but I have friends who are older now and my age and who are still who have not spoken to their parents in many, many years. And there's a distinct difference between those who eventually. And this is not. They never got in touch with their parents again, you know, like, it was over. Like, if that happens, like. And I don't believe you have to, you know, even see your parents if you have problems with them, but you kind of have to forgive them at some point in your heart, you know, however you can. You know, I just see a lot of older people who, like, never really. Who kind of held onto this resentment towards their. Their. Their parent that abused them. And it was like, it really. I would just be mindful of that down the line. And. And when I say forgive, I mean, it's not even like, you know, however you can, or just let them free or something from tormenting you. Because if it goes on any further, if I hope it's. It's settled sooner than that. But just way down the line, you have to let go of it at some point. I feel personally.

[Katherine]

Yeah. It's the thing they say about forgiveness as an inside job sort of thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And that's part of the process of healing yourself is just to exhaust those thoughts and those emotions. And even when they come up for you, even though it may feel like, oh, like, I can understand a dynamic where your partner doesn't understand how. Or, you know, you not understanding your mother's reaction or having difficulty with it, with relationships or your partner. Like, I can understand that. That might be weird, too, to even be like, oh, God, it's. Or I miss my mom, or whatever. However your feelings might present, but, like, really feel those feelings, you know, it's very valid to be emotionally harmed by an event like this. That's very valid. So, like, the healing component is just really important to, like, really try to always continue to heal. It's not just a one and done. It doesn't just happen in one sitting or one letter. It's a process of forgiveness and forgiveness. And every time these feelings come up, Forgive her in a way where you don't have to communicate and be hanging out with her, but forgive her for her own ignorance, for the way she was raised, for whatever her parents did to her, you know?

[G]

Yeah, no, I love this advice, and it's very validating, I think. Just hear it. You know, sometimes I'm like, am I being dramatic? But it feels. It's like, you know, which I think is a normal response in these situations, is for me to feel like I'm overreacting. But, no, it's. It ha. It has been unbelievably devastating and difficult. And then, you know, now that I'm feeling better and have healed a lot, I think, you know, I'm like, maybe I should dive back in that pool. But I. Yeah, I don't think that's the right way to go about it. I love that idea of just writing it down. And. And also, Chelsea, I appreciate this is the worst thing that's ever happened in my life. I never would have pictured this. And I don't. That idea of, you know, it's not just one and done is really helpful to remember that it's a process, and it's gonna just get. I'm not gonna just wipe it away and make it go away.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, everyone always thinks when they're going through something like, oh, I thought I was over that. Why is this hitting me again? Why is this hitting me again? It was just a week ago. I thought, for sure, I'm done with this. That's the way grief happens. That's the way, like, emotions work. They kind of slowly drizzle out. But you have to give them the proper amount of respect and attention when they do come come up.

[G]

Right.

[Katherine]

So, yeah, also just to address the emotions that you're feeling about feeling selfish or feeling like you're being too extra, I think that when you're in a relationship with someone like this, who's not caring for your feelings. Some people like this will injure you and then treat you like you're being too sensitive because you're bleeding. And like you made a decision to move farther away from the source of those injuries. And I think that's totally fine. Just remember, like, it's not your fault for being too sensitive. That's the one. That's the one a lot of people use, is like hypersensitive sort of thing. You made the right choice for you at the time, and there might be a different choice in front of you.

[G]

I love that. Thank you.

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Thanks for calling in.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[G]

Thank you so much, you guys.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, for sure, Katie.

[G]

Bye.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, we're gonna take a break and we're gonna be right back.

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[Katherine]

Morning brings a fresh, new energy.

[Rufus Wainwright]

This is today with.

[Katherine]

And no matter what the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Rufus Wainwright]

When things are tough, we talk about it.

[Chelsea Handler]

When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it.

[Katherine]

Because today is where it's all happening. We get the best start to every morning because we start it together.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC.

[Chelsea Handler]

And we're back with Rufus Wainwright, who has a big show coming up in LA on May 4th. Dream Requiem, it's called. Where is the show, Rufus?

[Rufus Wainwright]

It's at Disney hall downtown.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's such a beautiful venue.

[Rufus Wainwright]

No, I'm very excited about it. Yeah. Very excited.

[Chelsea Handler]

How does one rehearse for that? Do you go in earlier that day and rehearse?

[Rufus Wainwright]

Oh, no. There's about three days of rehearsals with the orchestra and the chorus. Not a ton of time. Cause it's so expensive. The great thing about Disney hall, though, with me and this project is that I had composed the piece Dream Requiem, but it wasn't quite finished. And I went to see a concert beforehand at Disney hall. And when I got in there, I know they have one of the most amazing organs in the world at Disney Hall. It's this insane instrument that it looks great and it sounds incredible. And I sat there looking at the stage and at the organ, and I was like, oh, my God, I have to have an organ in my piece. That sounded good. I need an organ. But. So I then went back and composed the last little bit of the Requiem with that in mind. And now on May 4th, I'm gonna get to actually hear that organ play in the piece. So whatever. I just feel very fortunate.

[Katherine]

Love it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. That's gorgeous. Beautiful.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, well, awesome. Well, do we have anything else, Katherine, or are we good?

[Katherine]

I mean, I do have one little quickie if you want to.

[Chelsea Handler]

Let's do a quickie to close out for sure.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Okay.

[Katherine]

All right, fantastic. So our last question today comes from Casey. Casey says, Dear Chelsea, I'm 28 and in a new relationship with a guy for three months. Recently, my boyfriend read my private journal without my permission. In my journal, I had written some things that weren't complimentary about him. I love him very much, but also, sometimes I just need to vent in my own private journal. After reading my journal, he confronted me about it. And instead of apologizing for reading it, he demanded I apologize for what I wrote. Saying that what I did was much worse. Again, all I did was write personal thoughts in my private journal. I ended up apologizing because I was so caught off guard. But now I feel weird about it, and I feel like I don't have a safe space to write my personal thoughts anymore. I also feel like I can't trust that he won't read my journal again. Additionally, after this happened, he went and told his friends and other people about what I wrote, which felt really embarrassing and invasive because I also wrote about some personal things I was going through. Is this a big red flag, or am I being dramatic addict? Casey.

[Chelsea Handler]

No, that's a big red flag.

[Katherine]

Huge.

[Rufus Wainwright]

You gotta get far away from this person.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. No, that's an invasion of privacy. Like, that is a reason to actually end a relationship. Yes.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

You can't go through other people's private things. You just can't do that.

[Katherine]

Yes. And I mean, like, to blame you for just being able to. That's crazy.

[Chelsea Handler]

Absolutely. First of all, if you read someone's like, you don't. That's supposed to be a secret. And then. Yeah, and then he said double. It's like a double whammy. He did that. And then he wants to be mad at you about it. No.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yeah. And then he tells his. And then he tells his friends about it, which is like a triple thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, exactly. It's unbelievable. You're writing. Where are you supposed to express yourself if it's not a safe place to write? In your journal.

[Katherine]

Yeah. No, this guy's gotta go.

[Chelsea Handler]

No, that's a red flag. Break up with him as soon as you can. Problematic, for sure. Okay. Rufus, thank you so much for being here today. It was great talking to you.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yes. It's great to see you again.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And I hope I see you in person sometime soon.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Yes. Yes. Well, try to come on May 4th if you're around. But. And Jane's gonna be amazing. She's. Yeah. May 4th.

[Chelsea Handler]

I would be there. I would come. If I'm in la, I have to look at my calendar and see if I'm in town on May. In May. Okay.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay.

[Rufus Wainwright]

Bye, Rufus.

[Chelsea Handler]

Bye. Do, do, do, do, do, do Drum roll. Catherine, please. Chelsea Handler. Abroad. Abroad is my European tour, so I'm coming to obviously find a husband abroad. I need to get the hell out of this fucking country. And it's not as easy as you think. So I'm coming to Reykjavik. I'm coming to Dublin. I'm coming to the uk. I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June. I'm coming to Oslo, Stockholm to Copenhagen, man, Manchester, London, Glasgow, New Zurich, Vienna. I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin, Barcelona and Lisbon. I'm coming abroad is abroad.

[Katherine]

That sounds like fun. I'm gonna go see you abroad.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know I want to go see me abroad. And there I'll be. There I'll be excellent.

[Katherine]

Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write in to dearchelsea podcastmail.com find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching eercelseipod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert Executive producer Kathryn Law. And be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com.

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