Proper Trash with Antoni Porowski

Summary

Dear Chelsea Podcast Summary Episode: Proper Trash with Antoni Porowski | Released February 27, 2025

Introduction In this engaging episode of Dear Chelsea, hosted by Chelsea Handler alongside co-host Catherine Law, comedian and author Chelsea Handler celebrates her 50th birthday. Joining her is special guest Antoni Porowski, renowned for his role on Queer Eye and his new show No Taste Like Home on Disney and Nat Geo. The episode navigates through personal milestones, relationship dynamics, and the intricacies of maintaining meaningful friendships in adulthood, all delivered with Chelsea's signature humor and honesty.

Celebrating Milestones The episode kicks off with Chelsea Handler announcing her milestone birthday and the release of her latest book. She shares excitement about her upcoming European and Las Vegas tours, highlighting her new ventures such as Chelsea Handler Abroad and Chelsea Handler's Vodka Lemonade. Chelsea passionately promotes her book, urging listeners to purchase and review it, emphasizing the importance of community support.

Notable Quote:

• Chelsea Handler [02:19]: "I am 50 years old. Five. Oh, baby."

Guest Introduction: Antoni Porowski Antoni Porowski joins the conversation, bringing insights from his new culinary show No Taste Like Home. He discusses the show's unique blend of food exploration and cultural storytelling, drawing parallels to the late Anthony Bourdain's approach to showcasing global cuisines and their cultural significance.

Notable Quote:

• Antoni Porowski [14:27]: "He just went personal and he got to know, like, he got to tell these human stories."

Navigating Relationship Challenges A significant portion of the episode delves into relationship dynamics, focusing on a listener's dilemma about sexual incompatibility and the strains it places on a long-term marriage. Chelsea and Antoni offer compassionate advice, addressing issues such as differing libidos, the impact of external stresses on intimacy, and the importance of open communication.

Notable Quotes:

• Priscilla [28:13]: "He can't turn off his brain from all the stress and get in the mood unless he's drunk, which is a major turnoff and again leaves me unsatisfied."
• Chelsea Handler [29:03]: "If sex is that important to you, which to most of us it is... you could put up with it for a while."

Addressing Sexual Compatibility Antoni shares his thoughts on sexual compatibility, emphasizing the need for couples to explore alternative forms of intimacy beyond traditional penetrative sex. He encourages embracing diverse expressions of love and intimacy to bridge gaps in sexual desire.

Notable Quote:

• Antoni Porowski [30:49]: "Listen to Mel Robbins. And then the other side of, like, no, like, just be happy with who I am and content and, like, they should fucking figure it out."

Building and Maintaining Friendships The discussion transitions to the complexities of adult friendships, particularly the pain of losing long-term friends due to life changes such as marriage, parenthood, and shifting priorities. Antoni and Chelsea offer strategies for mourning lost friendships and cultivating new, meaningful connections as adults.

Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea Handler [53:09]: "Not everybody is your friend forever. They're meant to understand that that door has closed, and now there's an opening for a deeper, more profound friendship."
• Antoni Porowski [55:42]: "Think about the permanence of things, whether it's like a relationship or friendships. It doesn't make sense at the time, but when you look back... it makes sense."

Listener Advice Segments Throughout the episode, listeners send in heartfelt questions seeking advice on navigating personal relationships and the emotional turmoil of losing close friends. Chelsea and Antoni provide thoughtful, empathetic guidance, blending personal anecdotes with practical solutions.

Notable Quote:

• Chelsea Handler [56:09]: "Don't spend time thinking about the past and relationships that are no longer there. Just focus on the now and the possibilities of the future."

Conclusion As the episode wraps up, Chelsea promotes her upcoming book tour events across Europe and Las Vegas, encouraging listeners to join her in person. The heartfelt conversations with Antoni Porowski leave listeners with valuable insights into maintaining intimacy in relationships and building enduring friendships, all delivered with the candidness and humor that fans love about Chelsea Handler.

Notable Quote:

• Chelsea Handler [61:02]: "Thank you. Appreciate that. Do do, do, do, do, do. Drum roll."

Final Thoughts This episode of Dear Chelsea masterfully balances personal celebration with deep dives into relationship and friendship dynamics. Antoni Porowski's presence enriches the conversation, providing a blend of humor, empathy, and practical advice. Whether grappling with sexual incompatibility in long-term relationships or the heartbreak of evolving friendships, listeners are left with actionable insights and a sense of camaraderie.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

• Chelsea Handler [02:19]: "I am 50 years old. Five. Oh, baby."
• Antoni Porowski [14:27]: "He just went personal and he got to know, like, he got to tell these human stories."
• Priscilla [28:13]: "He can't turn off his brain from all the stress and get in the mood unless he's drunk, which is a major turnoff and again leaves me unsatisfied."
• Chelsea Handler [29:03]: "If sex is that important to you, which to most of us it is... you could put up with it for a while."
• Antoni Porowski [30:49]: "Listen to Mel Robbins. And then the other side of, like, no, like, just be happy with who I am and content and, like, they should fucking figure it out."
• Chelsea Handler [53:09]: "Not everybody is your friend forever. They're meant to understand that that door has closed, and now there's an opening for a deeper, more profound friendship."
• Antoni Porowski [55:42]: "Think about the permanence of things, whether it's like a relationship or friendships. It doesn't make sense at the time, but when you look back... it makes sense."
• Chelsea Handler [56:09]: "Don't spend time thinking about the past and relationships that are no longer there. Just focus on the now and the possibilities of the future."
• Chelsea Handler [61:02]: "Thank you. Appreciate that. Do do, do, do, do, do. Drum roll."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, thoughtful advice, and the dynamic interaction between Chelsea Handler and Antoni Porowski. Whether you're navigating personal relationships or the ever-evolving landscape of adult friendships, this episode offers valuable perspectives and relatable insights.

Transcript

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

A mother's love deserves a gift like no other. Celebrate her love, strength and style with heartfelt jewelry from Pandora. From iconic charms to sparkling necklaces, rings, earrings and more, there are so many ways to say thank you, mom. Pandora even has in store engraving so you can treat your mom to a trip to the store and have your pieces engraved together with your own hand. So on Mother's Day and every day, tell her how much she means to you with a gift from Pandora. Visit Pandora in store or [e-mail] Every.

[Katherine]

Morning brings a fresh new energy. And no matter what the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Antony Perofsky]

We get the best start to the.

[Chelsea Handler]

Day because we started together.

[Antony Perofsky]

Watch the Today show weekdays at 7:00am on NBC.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Katherine.

[Katherine]

Hi, Chelsea. Happy birthday.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's my birthday today. Even though this is airing on Thursday, we're recording it on my 50th birthday, everybody. I am 50 years old. Five. Oh, baby.

[Katherine]

You know what? It's a significant birthday and hopefully this year will be just as significant.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's gonna be significant in more ways than one. Hopefully more good ways than bad ways.

[Katherine]

Good. I mean, your book is out. You're going on tour in Europe. You have like all these things went. You're still doing your book tour.

[Chelsea Handler]

My book is available everybody. It is finally on the shelves. So if you are listening to this podcast and you're an avid listener, not only do I want you to go and purchase my book, I want you to leave a review on Amazon or Barnesandnoble.com, support the book. If you like it, if you love it, tag me and tell me which part you love the most. I'll re tag you and repost you, but I want lots of interaction. So please all my podcast listeners, this is our moment.

[Katherine]

This is it. This is it. So where's your birthday party in New York? Can you talk about where when all the exciting things?

[Chelsea Handler]

It's just we threw it together. It's tonight at the. At Mulberry or the Mulberry. I don't know, some little kind of bar, restaurant situation. And cute. I'm going to the 92nd Street Y to have a conversation with Tinks about my book. I've done 57 talk shows in 24 hours and 50,000 podcasts. And definitely people know I have a book out. There is no way around it.

[Katherine]

Good, good. I'm so glad. And people may notice that you sound a little bit different right now, and that's because you are literally in the glam chair getting ready to go do both of those things.

[Chelsea Handler]

Also, I want to remind people that my Owls Brew is on the shelves. Chelsea Handler's Vodka Lemonade is available now in store. So if you have a book club and you guys want to drink while you're reading, which is definitely what you should be doing and not even if you are reading the book, just if you want some nice smooth vodka lemonade mixes, we have classic, we have pink, and we have mint. And I'm so excited about this collab with Owls Brew, so please show your support when you can. If you like beverages that are mixed smooth and non carbonated, we made them especially for. Well, for me and for you and Chelsea.

[Katherine]

We know you have good taste. So we're so excited for our guest today too. It's Antony Perovsky.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God. Wonderful. Let's get the fucking party started.

[Katherine]

And Antony Parofsky's new show, no Taste Like Home, is on Disney and Nat Geo.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, am I unmuted?

[Katherine]

You are muted Now, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm muted. Oh, okay. Now I'm unmuted.

[Katherine]

Now you're unmuted.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Anthony. Hi. Am I. I don't know, guys. I'm sorry. I really don't even know how the fuck to use a computer. I mean, it really does not matter how many times a week I do this I really still can't understand what's going on and nor do I have any interest in finding out.

[Katherine]

Case in point.

[Antony Perofsky]

So this is your first ever podcast episode, right? And I'm honored to be your first chef.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, you would. You would think so? Yeah, it's probably like I can barely.

[Antony Perofsky]

Send a fucking email, so.

[Chelsea Handler]

But you're younger. You're a different generation.

[Antony Perofsky]

I'm 40. I'm no spring chicken.

[Chelsea Handler]

That makes you, What, a millennial? 40, is that right? Congratulations on your new show, by the way. That. It's so sweet. You know, I love that shit. I love when you can go travel and have a really beautiful situation and then also talk to people there about the culture and like, make that actually palatable for people who don't give a shit about other people's culture. It's a way for them to, no pun intended, swallow it. No, totally.

[Antony Perofsky]

Well, I think it takes. My therapist always says she can attribute 99.9% of the world's problems to a lack of embracing of diversity. And we're afraid of what we don't understand. And that's how we end up we, I'm saying, collectively, but them. That's how like you end up judging people and stereotypes and all that kind of stuff. And when you get to know an individual and you get to know even just like the history of additional, like, what influenced and all that kind of stuff, it just makes it less scary and sorry for the comparison, but like more palatable, you know?

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, it's also like I was reading something or listening to something who knows what I was doing, and they were talking about the idea that the color of your skin or the way that you look makes you different. Like that whole. Someone had to build that notion. Cause it's so fucking stupid. It's like imagining opening up a box of crayons and having one color.

[Antony Perofsky]

I just want to ask. It's the add kicking in. I see beautiful, like snow covered trees. Where are you?

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm in Whistler, Canada.

[Antony Perofsky]

Fuck yeah. I love it so much. I lived there for four months.

[Chelsea Handler]

You did? Why?

[Antony Perofsky]

Well, in Vancouver, my sister was running a bunch of stores called Aritzia.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh my God. Yeah, they give me stuff all the time. Last year they came, I came in and they were like, we want to give you free jackets. I was like, that's amazing. Go ahead.

[Antony Perofsky]

We have a line called TNA that my sister called Tits and Ass.

[Chelsea Handler]

Where's your accent from?

[Antony Perofsky]

My accent, I'm Canadian originally. I'm from Montreal and my family's Polish. You have Polish ancestry?

[Chelsea Handler]

Do I?

[Antony Perofsky]

Apparently.

[Chelsea Handler]

How do you know that?

[Antony Perofsky]

When we were casting the really big web of like, dream people. I'm just going to, like, throw it out there. Me and my sister, like, 40% of our identity is you. Like, we f. Ing. I adore you and you're just so fucking funny. She's losing her sh. This is the coolest thing I've ever done in her eyes, more than like all fucking seasons of Queer Eye. So she was just really excited about this.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, that's really cute. I love it.

[Antony Perofsky]

We did initial research and just by googling we found out that you supposedly have some Polish heritage.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I definitely have some Eastern European in there. So I'm sure that at one point everything was Poland, wasn't it? So I'm sure it was Poland. But I love that I'm 40% of your personality. That really makes me prideful. I love that kind of stuff. So when you were doing these, like, whenever I have to travel for work, I always find it. It's such a great idea. And then you do it and you're working instead of actually traveling. And I would always be like, I have to come back to this place when I'm not working. Like, we went to St. Peter's or. No, we went to Moscow. And that's one place I actually don't have to go back to. But when we were there, I was like, it would be such a different experience if we weren't filming. I mean, the point of going is to film, but then you want like an extra two days to vacation.

[Antony Perofsky]

I mean, what I do is typically I try to get somewhere at least a few days earlier. First of all, jet lag because it just wipes me off my ass and I have to like, what do you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Take for jet lag? Do you. Do you take new vigil? New vigil is a good pill for jet lag if you can get a prescription for it.

[Antony Perofsky]

Oh, my dad's a physician and so is my stepmom, so I'll get it. I love that. Oh, yeah, Pharmaceuticals.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yeah. It's like Adderall but smooth. Like, it doesn't make you jumpy and it makes you. Like, if you have jet lag and you have to go somewhere, you know that feeling is like almost. It feels insurmountable.

[Antony Perofsky]

Oh, I go cross eyed and then I try to stay a few days afterwards. Just take it into like. Because it's like, when the hell am I going to end up in Borneo again? You know what I mean?

[Katherine]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Probably next Season. But I hear what you're saying. So what's your situation? Are you gay, straight, fluid? All of the above.

[Antony Perofsky]

So I've. I mean, my past few relationships have been with guys. I still consider myself attracted to women. I've had a lot of relationships with women. And I don't know, it's like, if you had to put me in a box, I think it would be fluid, I guess.

[Chelsea Handler]

Fluid. I mean, who isn't really fluid when you really think about it? I think everybody's a little bit something, you know, it's a spectrum, just like everything else.

[Antony Perofsky]

I mean, like, how could you say no to Zoe Kravitz? You know?

[Chelsea Handler]

Right, of course, of course. Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule, even if there are no rules. What's your family situation? Do you have a brother?

[Antony Perofsky]

No. So I wish in. Actually, in elementary school, I used to lie that my mom was pregnant and I was going to have a brother. And they would come back from parent teacher conference and be like, you need to stop fudgeing. Telling everyone that I'm pregnant because it's super awkward. Like, I'm having it. I'm all three minute. Mazel.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I used to lie all the time at school.

[Antony Perofsky]

I have two older sisters raised in a very matriarchal household. Parents are Polish. Everyone was born in Poland. Or my father in Brussels because his family fled there after the war. I was the first one born in Canada.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, okay. Yeah. I lied to my teachers all the time, too, by the way. Whatever. Anytime there was an opportunity for a lie, I would lie to them just because I thought they were kind of insulting to my intelligence. You know, I'm like, they're going to tell me what to do. Like, I just couldn't. I couldn't square it.

[Antony Perofsky]

Like, you get to know the real me.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. But also you get caught for it. And then it's super embarrassing because they're like, you're not going to be in the Private Benjamin movie. You're not Goldie Hawn's daughter. You're actually psychopath. And you're like, oh, maybe I am a little bit of a psychopath. I started watching the Awkwafina episode and I was. Seemed like she was going to start crying and I was like, oh, I would love to see her that vulnerable.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

She.

[Katherine]

I feel like she mostly cries in the episode. There's like, more tears than not tears.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow.

[Katherine]

Yes. Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow. Well, we haven't seen that side of Awkwafina. That's. That's pretty cool.

[Antony Perofsky]

That was by far the most emotional episode. I mean, I, like, snot cried. There were. It was embarrassing, but there were a few scenes where, like, she had to actually take care of me. So with Nora, she hadn't been back to South Korea since her mother passed away when she was 4 years old.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, wow.

[Antony Perofsky]

The mother had this. This really rare illness that she developed as a result of her pregnancy. And they basically told her she had a few months left to live. And she decided, fuck Western medicine. I'm gonna lean into Eastern practices. And she lived until Nora was four. And the dish that kind of, like, brought it all together, we were sitting with this woman who had a PhD in fermentation, who, like, supposedly, according to herself, cured herself of breast cancer using Eastern practices, was making this soup with this broth and this rehydrated kelp and these pieces of beef. And Nora smelled it as we were doing it, and she, like, got really emotional and started getting shaky, and she was like, wait, I remember this scent from when I was 4 years old. And then we learned that this is something in mythology. The Koreans used to look at whales giving birth, and they were depleted of iron, and they would eat kelp to make themselves feel better, because food truly is medicine in their culture. Like, fermentation is UNESCO protected. And so this woman, like, for Nora to have that realization that her mom not only made this for herself, but fed it to her daughter as a way of trying to heal herself was just one of the most. Was wild. Wild.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow. That's really deep.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yeah.

[Katherine]

Yeah. Watching someone, like, take a bite of something, she takes one bite and, like, bursts into tears and is just transported. That's the power of scent. That's the power of food. And I think it's surprising. Cause the show is not. People would expect, like, oh, Anthony's gonna go do a cooking show. It's not strictly a cooking show. It's a little bit who do youo Think you Are? A little bit. Anthony Bourdain. Like, very beautifully produced. Like, really rich storytelling. Gorgeous vistas.

[Chelsea Handler]

I went on who do youo Think youk Are? Did you ever do that, Anthony? No, I didn't. My director and I did not get along either. He was really annoying.

[Katherine]

Oh, no.

[Antony Perofsky]

It's just like you're sitting there at a table, and that is a con that we use when we were developing the show. And it's, like, fine. It's. It's interesting to learn about your family history and all these people that you don't know about, but to actually have it be experiential. And go in and try the things within their environment and understand what was going on. We meet the historians and genealogists who are, like, way fucking smarter than I am, who were able to provide context into, like, what was going on culturally and politically at the time. And it's like the most basic things. Like, we were in Senegal and we try this thing called dombe, which is like a baguette with a bean stew in it. And you learn that the importance of it is because, you know, French occupation for hundreds of years, they left. The Senegalese were like, we're going to take the baguette. We're going to fucking make it better, softer, sweeter. We're going to put in our own stew. And now it's basically become. It's kind of like when you're in LA and you see, like, burrito stands on every corner, it's like everyone enjoys it. And this is something that is loaded with history and has all of these clues as to, like, what was going on at the time. It's just fascinating.

[Chelsea Handler]

That is fascinating. It's so cool. It's so cool to be passionate about it. It is very Anthony Bourdain. We need that. Are you hoping to fill his shoes? I mean, obviously you don't want to fill his shoes, but you do want to fill his shoes.

[Antony Perofsky]

I mean, look, I read his books, so I was obsessed with him growing up. I certainly don't want to be derivative. It is something that comes to mind. I think where he really excelled was using food as that vehicle to tell those personal stories for people to understand what was going on in the Middle east and all these other places in the world where it was like, it's about the food, but it's not really about the food. It's everything that's kind of tied around it. And I think what we learned from him is that he just went personal and he got to know, like, he got to tell these, like, human stories, you know?

[Chelsea Handler]

What is your least favorite food that you've experienced so far? You have to be honest.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yeah. In Borneo, it didn't make it to the final cut, but I tried durian. Are you familiar?

[Chelsea Handler]

No.

[Katherine]

Stinky fruit, right?

[Antony Perofsky]

Smells like a rotting chicken carcass. Like, old fruit situation. But one of our camera ops described as an overly ripe Camembert with really sharp garlic. It's intense and funky. I'll put almost anything in my mouth. It's one of those things that, like, I tried it. I don't need to go back there again. It Was. It was a lot of funk.

[Chelsea Handler]

What is going on in Borneo? Exactly.

[Antony Perofsky]

So with that was the Henry Golding episode. And his mother is. His father's British, ex military. His mother is Iban, traditional, like an indigenous tribe in Sarawak. And they lived in these longhouses where like 40 to 60 families have their own living quarters. And then the other half of the longhouse, it's literally a longhouse in the middle of the jungle. And it's these communal spaces where they, like, teach each other to, like, cut bamboo and put the rice in and put it on the fire so that it becomes really nice and sticky. And it's just. With Henry, it was tricky. Cause he knew so much about his family history. But we actually uncovered that he had literal headhunters in his family line. And he had multiples of them. And he had like a witch and just kind of like learning about the spiritual practice and like, the spiritual significance of headhunting, when they would literally bring back these heads to their tribe. He remembered when he was a kid, he would.

[Chelsea Handler]

I was like. I was like, what kind of headhunter are we talking about?

[Antony Perofsky]

Not for a job.

[Chelsea Handler]

Not the one I'm think. Not the one I'm thinking of.

[Antony Perofsky]

Correct. Not our agents. But he remembers being a kid and he was like. I actually remember seeing, like, human skulls on, like, shelves. So to kind of like learn the context of the whole thing is just. I mean, it's a whole other world. I tried things like torch ginger. I tried eight wild ferns, which were freaking delicious, and wild eggplant. And it's like everything that they have there, it was like such a balance of. I've never felt like I was more out in the wild, like in the literal middle of nowhere in nature and just away from civilization. But at the same time, this very human thing of, like, the sense of community, I've never experienced it more strongly than I did being with those people for a week.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow, that's so cool.

[Antony Perofsky]

I felt like Indiana Jones.

[Chelsea Handler]

All right, let's not get carried away. Did you bring a lover with you or were you on your own with your crew? Like, did you bring a plus one?

[Antony Perofsky]

I was on my own on my own with the crew.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. It's nice to do that on your own, especially with a crew, because it's like camp.

[Antony Perofsky]

It's a small crew, like Queer Eye. We're like. We're a shit ton of people. And we're in the US where you have trailers and everything there. You don't have any of that when you're in northern Italy with Justin Theroux or in Borneo. It's like you're waiting. Like, you're waiting in a car.

[Chelsea Handler]

So you don't have a significant other in your dating life right now? Are you just kind of dating single, Single and mingle?

[Antony Perofsky]

I'm at a point where I feel like whenever I have something big or that I'm really excited about professionally, the way that it works out, I always happen to be single.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm so with you on that. So with you, I get to focus.

[Antony Perofsky]

Because I fucking love relationships. I love the melding and getting to know each other's families and, like.

[Chelsea Handler]

And then breaking up. Yeah, in that order. Like, it's okay to break up. If that's not a bad thing. That means it's time to move on to something else. Like, we need to start celebrating divorces and breakups. Who cares? That's great. It's a new beginning.

[Antony Perofsky]

You learn the lessons. You know what to take on to the next one you have.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, hopefully you learn the lesson. Some people are really, really remedial, and they need to learn the lesson multiple times, but some people really learn lessons, and then that's really nice. And then you have a celebration. Like, every relationship is a celebration. You got to know yourself a little bit better.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yeah. And it's cycle, too. Like, I'm closer with my friends when I'm not in a relationship. I get to spend more time with my family. It's, you know.

[Chelsea Handler]

Have you had your heart broken?

[Antony Perofsky]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

What was that like?

[Antony Perofsky]

It was devastating. It was really hard. It was. I don't know. Sorry. I didn't expect that. But it was. It kind of having your heart broken or. Having my heart broken just put into play and had me question sort of like, do I need to change as a person in some ways, and then in other ways, it was like, oh, no. Like, I really did my best, wasn't perfect, made some mistakes. But, like, I really showed up. I put in the work. I gave it all I could. I don't have any regrets. And then sometimes I question myself, and I'm like, is there anything that I need to change? Am I to this or to that? And. But I'm, like, obsessed with therapy. I've been going on and off since I was 17, and for me, it's like, I. I love self improvement. And then it just kind of brings up that whole notion of, do I want to change and do I want to evolve? But I'm also 40, and I'm kind of like, I'm half baked at this Point. I'm like, parts of me are the way that they are and I should just accept myself for who I am as opposed to striving to change all the time. So I'm in constant. I'm always in conflict with myself over, like, change, grow, evolve, adapt, be better. Listen to Mel Robbins. And then the other side of, like, no, like, just be happy with who I am and content and, like, they should fucking figure it out, you know?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And evolve doesn't mean change. Like, you don't have to change. You just get better at being who you are. So whatever qualities you have, good or bad, should always stay. You should just be able to know when to control them. And then they become even more enhanced. The more evolved you become. Everything just gets better. So there's. Yeah, you should have no apologies about your personality. That just keeps improving and improving. As long as you're willing to take a look at yourself and admit when you're wrong, which is so hard for so many people to do. Like, people don't. And they don't know how to change. It's like, change is so fucking easy. I haven't had a drink for fucking four weeks because of this shoulder situation I'm in. And finally I'm understanding the benefits of not drinking. I went to two things without drinking and I had a great time. And I'm like, oh, I see the other side. This is God's way of getting me to just be sober. I'm like, no matter what, though, I will never give up on alcohol. Like, you will not ever get me to quit drinking. So I might become, like, less of a drinker. But I will not ever give up on alcohol. We've had a good thing going for many, many years. 40 years. Anyway, I digress, as I always do.

[Antony Perofsky]

You're. We're in the same boat.

[Chelsea Handler]

We're vibing. Right? So it's okay. But anyway, we're going to get to the show now. You know what goes on here, right? Like, we're. We're going to give advice to people and they're going to call in and they're going to want to. They are going to want your full attention.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

So you better get ready for it. Katherine, tell us what's happening.

[Katherine]

Oh, we have some great questions for you, Antony, but we'll take a quick break and we'll come right back.

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

Morning brings a fresh, new energy.

[Antony Perofsky]

This is TODAY with and no matter.

[Katherine]

What the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Chelsea Handler]

When things are tough, we talk about it. When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it.

[Katherine]

Because today is where it's all happening. We get the best start to every morning because we start it together.

[Chelsea Handler]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie.

[Antony Perofsky]

And Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC.

[Chelsea Handler]

And we're back with Antony Perovsky.

[Katherine]

Yes. I have a husband who is a lover of Queer Eye and I was like watching some of the episodes of your new show on my computer just like in the same room as him. And he goes, is that Anthony? So he recognized your voice. I was like, it is actually.

[Antony Perofsky]

Did you ask him who his favorite member of the Fab Five is?

[Katherine]

Of course. And he said, anthony Good would have been awesome. Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

You're my Favorite so far, but I don't know. I don't know if I know every single one of them.

[Katherine]

Well, we had Bobby Burke on the show. We had Bobby Burke and Karamo. Haven't had jvn.

[Chelsea Handler]

And then there's the salt and pepper.

[Katherine]

We haven't had tan.

[Antony Perofsky]

There's tan.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, Right. Tan.

[Katherine]

Yeah. And our new friend and Jeremiah. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, perfect. I'm going to take a break, then I'll be right back.

[Antony Perofsky]

Ah, she's in Whistler. I'm so jealous.

[Katherine]

Yeah. So what were you doing living in Whistler?

[Antony Perofsky]

Well, not Whistler. I was in Vancouver, but we would go to Whistler on weekends with my sister.

[Katherine]

Are you a ski bum?

[Antony Perofsky]

I am. I own skiing since I was, like, 4 years old.

[Katherine]

Oh, my gosh. Well, Canadian. That makes sense, I guess.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yeah. It's kind of mandatory.

[Katherine]

Yes. I am not a ski bum, but I. I'm a ski lodge bum. Like, I like to be in the lodge with a cup of cocoa and a book under a cozy blanket. Like, that's what I want.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yes. And maybe a poutine. I know that's really Canadian of me to say, but, like, come on.

[Katherine]

Well, see, I grew up in Chicago and had a lot of Michigander friends, and they claim that poutine is from Michigan, which we all know that that is a reach. But, you know, they do love their poutine.

[Antony Perofsky]

Let us. Let us have Canada. Like, Trump's trying to fucking make it part of the US like, just let us have our own thing, you know? Leave us alone. Poutine is Canadian.

[Katherine]

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, kiddos?

[Antony Perofsky]

Don't make it a thing. It's literally our entire national identity. It's fucking fries and gravy and cheese curds.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes, cheese curds are pretty disgusting when they're melty.

[Antony Perofsky]

They're pretty good.

[Chelsea Handler]

They're so. Of course they're good, but they're disgusting. Good. That. That's disgusting. Like, I'd rather eat, like.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yeah, it's, like, good. It's like proper trash.

[Katherine]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Proper trash, but I'd rather. There's other proper trash I prefer over that. Like, what I'm trying to think, but, like, it's got to be trash.

[Katherine]

You love a McDonald's.

[Antony Perofsky]

What's like, your fuck it thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like a pig in a blanket. I fucking love that Polo bar.

[Antony Perofsky]

Pigs and blankets. Perfect ratio of crust. And the. The.

[Chelsea Handler]

The crust be like that leaf. What is it called, that phyllo dough.

[Antony Perofsky]

Oh, you like the phyllo dough?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I love it when it's just fucking thin and flaky and it's a burnt it kind of crispy with grainy.

[Antony Perofsky]

Honey mustard just to dip into it with that sharpness.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I like yellow. I like yellow Jew. Jew mustard.

[Katherine]

Excellent. Well, we'll get to colors now, so let's do it.

[Chelsea Handler]

I can't wait. I can't wait to see Anthony giving advice.

[Antony Perofsky]

Oh God. Literally my least favorite thing to do. I hate unsolicited advice, but this is solicited so it's fine.

[Chelsea Handler]

Exactly.

[Katherine]

Exactly. Well, our first question comes from Priscilla. Dear Chelsea, I am in a pickle. Less pickle. I've been with my husband for almost 10 years now. He's six years older than me. I'm 33 and he's 39 and we grew up together. I've had a crush on him since I was a kid and still do. He's my best friend and I'm certain he feels the same way. One problem is that I've learned over the years we're not sexually compatible. At the beginning it was fireworks, incredible. But then quickly fizzled out due to quote unquote stress. I'm always the one initiating, telling him what to do, not do. And if I'm honest, the sex lasts, lasts less than five minutes and I'm rarely satisfied. It's a miracle we got pregnant twice, both times on the very first try. He's the sole provider for the family and has a very stressful job. He's a general contractor and is always extremely busy with work. He gets calls about flooding basements, money issues, angry trades, etc at all hours of the day. This plus some financial issues all weigh heavily on his shoulders. I have a part time job, but it hardly covers groceries and soon I'll be busy with a new baby. I feel like I can't help carry the burden. He can't turn off his brain from all the stress and get in the mood unless he's drunk, which is a major turnoff and again leaves me unsatisfied. Over the years it's become as soon as I get this job done, I'll be less stressed. As soon as. As soon as I've come to realize he's maybe just not as sexually charged as I am. For a while I thought it was me. Am I not sexy enough? But we've talked about it and it's not that I can say for certain he's not gay. I've seen his Internet search history. I can say for certain he's not getting it elsewhere. He's too busy I feel cheated. I've been told my whole life that all men want or think about is sex. I don't know any female that has been in this position before. We've been to a sex therapist and had to stop due to lack of money and time. He was open to it, but good therapy is expensive. Divorce does not feel like an option. And I don't feel like an open marriage is either. Because of our small community. I have no answers. My friends have no answers, and he has no answers, which leaves me in a pickle list. Pickle help. Priscilla.

[Chelsea Handler]

Anthony, what are you thinking?

[Katherine]

Okay.

[Antony Perofsky]

Off the top of my head, near the beginning, I felt like she was making a lot of excuses for him, which kind of, like, bothered me a little bit. I also felt there's something about it that just kind of make. Made me sad. Like, she just feel like. I feel like she's, like, in a really helpless. She's just, like, out of options. And the options that I was trying to think of, of, like, talk to a sex therapist. Talk to a therapist in general. Check in with, like, do you guys have different libidos? Are you not compatible on that front to, like, even opening up the marriage in some way? All of that was kind of kiboshed in the explanation. So I think it's like, like, dude, you need to, like, go revisit some of that stuff, because I really don't know. You want to be with the person, but it's like, I don't know, because I'm torn, because it's like, at the same time, like, I. I feel like I have a pretty high libido, and physical and sexual intimacy are incredibly important to me.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Antony Perofsky]

But I also know people out there who've had really long relationships where there is a disconnect, and they love each other unconditionally, they respect each other. They're each other's, like, biggest fucking cheerleaders, but they don't necessarily have that. So it's like, again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier about, like, accepting things the way they are and then being like, no, I need change. I'm a little torn. Chelsea.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, I feel the same way. It's kind of hard to say because it obviously matters to her because she's talking about open marriage and whatever. If sex is that important to you, which to most of us it is. I'm one of those people that I want sex. I'm not just, like, looking for somebody to hang out with. If I had to choose hanging out or sex, I would choose sex. So I think that it depends how important it is to you, if it is a deal breaker. I mean, if he can't perform sexually, like, if whatever his issues are, it's usually has nothing to do with a woman. So I'm glad that you already figured that out.

[Katherine]

It's not cause you're not sexy enough.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well, she already expressed that in the letter. Said that she knows it's not her fault. It's something to do with him. And that's his issue. Like, are you willing to put up with that cause you love him? Like, I would say life's too short. Like you could put up with it for a while. I mean, it's great that he was open to go into a sex therapist, but to what avail? So you're not fixing the problem, and it seems like a pretty important problem to be fixing. So I just think that, like, you know, you've got to either go the extra distance and really exhaust all possibilities of finding out what the possible solutions are and finding one that works for you. And if you don't, then what's your game plan? Like, are you going to hang out with him and, and, and be okay with that in some sort of like, sexless relationship for the rest of your life?

[Katherine]

See, I feel like there is room for a third option here, because a third person.

[Chelsea Handler]

There's definitely room for a third person to come in and fuck the shit out of her.

[Katherine]

There definitely is. But when we think about sex, as far as like this couple goes, we're thinking usually about like, she's thinking about penetrative sex. It lasts five minutes, she's not satisfied. And part of sex is that intimacy having that closeness with someone. So maybe you can talk to him about like, hey, I really want to like, improve our intimacy, improve our closeness. And like, let's take some time to not even think about like the penetrative part of sex. Because if he's not up for it, he's not up for it. But like, can he spend some time pleasuring you? Can you guys play with some toys? Like, so weird.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's so weird. Oh, by the way, I. Oh, I wanted to say one more thing too. Sorry, I know I'm being so interrupted today, but I'm just in that kind of mood. The other thing is a lot of women, you said none of your friends experienced this. I do know many women who have experienced their partners not being up for the amount of sex that they are.

[Katherine]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

So just wanted to throw that out there before.

[Antony Perofsky]

I agree. That's Like a really. That's a really common thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's also a gay thing too, isn't it? Like a lot of gay guys. Not a lot. I actually. I only know one gay guy who won't. Who doesn't penetrate. Like, he doesn't penetrate. He doesn't want to be penetrated. He only gives.

[Antony Perofsky]

I learned there's a name from that.

[Chelsea Handler]

What? Yeah. What is that?

[Antony Perofsky]

It's called siding.

[Katherine]

Siding.

[Chelsea Handler]

Siding.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yeah. They, like, give each other, like, blowjobs, but they don't. There's no, like, penetrative sex.

[Chelsea Handler]

When my friend told me about this, I thought that's. He feels such shame for the act of penetration. He feels shame at doing that. That's why he can't.

[Antony Perofsky]

I mean, that's a whole thing. Yeah.

[Katherine]

I recently stumbled across a follow from. We had this caller, Marco, like, a long time ago, who was in the same situation. He's like, I'm gay, but, like, I do not. I'm not interested in anal. And he followed up actually recently and said that he. Well, no, he's still not into anal, but he's like, I've discovered that I love having my ass eaten out and eating out everybody else's asses. So I'm like, good for him. That's a win.

[Chelsea Handler]

What a huge discovery. What if he had gone through? How much. How much more life could he have gone through without figuring that out?

[Katherine]

Thank goodness for this show. Just saving lives. Saving lives.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's something. People always go, what's the best piece of advice you've ever given? To start eating more ass. That's my advice. I'm gonna write that down.

[Antony Perofsky]

That's the tattoo.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, for sure. Eat my ass is my tattoo. And then I'm gonna put it on a different part of my body. So people are doubly confused.

[Katherine]

Yeah. So to wrap up for Priscilla, I think there's some intentionality that you guys can, like, take some time. If he's not into, like, performing, quote, unquote, cause he's too stressed. Try some other stuff. And, like, hint, hint, he might get in the mood, but it's really also, like, about you and your pleasure. It doesn't necessarily have to, like, have anything to do with him getting off.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right. Try harder to make the situation. Try to find a solution. And if you can't find the solution, then you know that you've done everything you can to try to figure out the problem and then move on.

[Antony Perofsky]

Look, I know I'm like, a mega optimist, but, like, clearly she fucking loves this guy. The fact that she reached out to you. They've been together for 10 years. They're kids. There are, like, so many added layers there. I'm a fighter in relationships. I would go back. The stuff that you revisited that you heard, that you think you're not that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Much of a fighter. You're single.

[Antony Perofsky]

That's not nice, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Handler]

No, it's not. That's not. I'm saying you're not that much of a fighter. Come on. If you were willing to fight for anything. I'm not being mean. I'm just being.

[Antony Perofsky]

I fought. I'm partially messing with you. I. One thing about me, I fucking fight for relationships as much as I can till the very end, whether it's therapy, whatever it is. I'm just saying sometimes things happen that are just, like, outside of your control, and you just have to, like, deal with it and pick yourself up.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think I was thinking of fighting. Like, I'll do anything to do what it takes to, like, be in the relationship. I was interpreting it a different way.

[Antony Perofsky]

I am that person. I'm a fucking romantic through and through, hard on my sleeve. I'm like, I'm such a lover. Falling in love is like, what is it that.

[Chelsea Handler]

But, yeah, but falling in love, that's the best part. That's the best part. No one will dispute that. We. Everyone knows those. That that's the best phase of life. Being in this phase that this caller's in is not the good.

[Antony Perofsky]

You fight for it. And you go back and stuff that she may have addressed earlier. Conversations that had. You know what? Maybe they need to be revisited. Maybe you need to get. Esther Perel has that card game where you ask each other intimate questions. Is it, like, wearing, like, some crazy fucking outfit or, like, the crab walking naked towards him when he enters the room and going full sexual, or building the intimacy with, like, some kind of romance and getting to know each other intimately.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like, maybe they should use the intimacy coordinator from It Ends with Us. What. What about that woman? That maybe they should use her. Yeah, that worked out great.

[Antony Perofsky]

Or, like, I don't know, go to a rave together or something. You know what I mean?

[Chelsea Handler]

They definitely have to change up the dynamics. Something has to shift. If you want people to change, you have to change, period. But, like, so get the ball rolling in some direction and be. Be tireless about it. Like, exhaust all the possibilities, period.

[Antony Perofsky]

I agree.

[Katherine]

And if all else fails, just get, like, a really good vibrator and, like, leave him out of it. End of list.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, that's quick.

[Katherine]

That's yeah. So our next email comes from Laura. She is calling in so we'll be chatting with her. Laura says, dear Chelsea, I have a sticky situation with my newish boyfriend and I'm hoping to get your perspective on it. My boyfriend lives with a girl who he has been friends with for a few years and they've slept together twice in the past. They're in the same friend group and he claims it happened when they were both drunk and lonely. To be fair, we were friends at the time. We met at work and were friends first before dating and he told me what was going on and I was dating other people at the time. He told me he's been into me since we first met and patiently waited for me to break up with my then boyfriend. It really hurts me and makes me sad picturing her with him even though it was before I was in the picture and he's been upfront about the information. I hate how much this weighs on me and I always feel sad knowing he's at home with her when we're not spending the night together. I hate that I'm jealous and losing my Zen when I'm ordinarily a confident person. I'm mad at him for inflicting the situation on our relationship. Yesterday he had the audacity to ask me if I wanted to go out dancing this weekend with her and some of her friends. I said, absolutely not. Why would I want to go out dancing and drinking with some girl? You. Before I flipped it back on him. Would you want to go dancing with me and some guy I used to fuck? He didn't have a good answer to that. For context. I'm 27 and he's 32. He should know better at his grown age of 32, I feel like he downplayed their friendship to try and appease me. This makes me question if I can trust him. Any advice you have on boundaries and how to get my peace back are greatly appreciated, Laura.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Laura.

[Caller]

Hello.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi. Thanks for calling in. This is our special guest, Antony Borowski.

[Caller]

Yes, I'm starstruck. I love Queer Eye. That's awesome.

[Antony Perofsky]

Nice to meet you. Wait, how long have you been together?

[Caller]

So we've been dating since November last year. So what is that?

[Katherine]

It's like four months. Ish.

[Antony Perofsky]

Four months. This is new.

[Caller]

It is, yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, that's easy. That makes things a little bit easier. You know, I don't think anyone should be judged on having an ex, like a past or anything, but you're in a perfect spot, I think, to Kind of, like, conduct yourself in a really cool way. You can go to him, be really honest about your feelings. It doesn't have to be an argument or disputatious in any way. And be like, hey, you know, you told me about this. You know, your roommate, he lives with her, right? Yeah, you told me about your roommate. You told me you had sex with her a couple times. It's kind of bothering me. I mean, I don't wanna be crazy and tell you, like, to move out or anything, but then you asked me to go dancing with her. That kind of gave me the ick. You're kind of giving me signals that there might be something more here and that, I don't know, if we continue to date, am I gonna have to deal with this woman in the background? Like, I think this is a perfect opportunity to have really one of those honest, upfront conversations before you're head over heels marrying this guy or deeply, madly in love. Four months is still new enough to get over quickly. And I think he'll show his true colors. Like, you don't want to go dancing with some roommate that he's fucked that he's still living with. That's not an ideal situation for someone. So if someone. If he really cares about you. Have you guys exchanged I love yous yet?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're. We're pretty in love. And, Chelsea, we kind of have had that conversation already and.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, sorry. I'm just fucking railing off. Yeah, no, I. Antony, why don't you tell me to shut the fuck up?

[Antony Perofsky]

I'm not telling you to shut up.

[Chelsea Handler]

Sorry, sorry, sorry, Laura, go on.

[Caller]

Yeah, so after this little, like, disagreement, we had that conversation, I was like, this is really hard for me. Like, I don't like who it's making me. Like, I really want to be chilled. Like, I have a past due. I respect that. I do. But this is so hard to deal with. So I was like, we need to set some boundaries or something so I feel better. And, like, what we came up with is he can't hang out with her one on one, which he lives with her. So, like, he's hanging out with her when they're at home. Like, I don't expect him to just start being rude to her. And. Well, I mean, I actually would like that, but I'm not gonna ask that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, he starts coming home and he's a total fucking asshole. That's funny.

[Caller]

And he's allowed to hang out with her in groups, but, like, I want to know about it, and that's kind of where we're at, but I'm still just like struggling with it at night when we're not together. And I know, like, I'm losing my chill and I hate it.

[Chelsea Handler]

I hear you. I hear you. Was he sympathetic to the idea of you being upset by this?

[Caller]

Yes. And he's like looking to buy, so that's why he likes living with her because it's a month to month lease, so he can move out really easily. When he does find the place he wants to buy and he's like actively working on it for sure. Okay, so that's nice.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, that's good. Okay. These are all good things. I, as a. Okay, this is gonna be my advice. I think this is perfect time for you to put your foot down and go, you know what? I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I don't think I'm gonna be comfortable until you've moved out of that apartment. Now that I have serious feelings about you, I don't wanna cut you off. Like, I want us to continue talking, but like, I really need to know that you're going to move out and not just giving me lip service because it's starting to fuck with me a little bit. And I'm looking at our relationship as like a possible fun future. Like we're going to be together for some time and I don't want to have this be part of it.

[Antony Perofsky]

I like that there's kind of like a compliment sandwich going on here where it's sort of like, hey, I fucking love you. I think that there's potential here. That said, like, there's a massive roadblock. I'm really struggling and I need your help from everything that I'm kind of gathering from you and what Katherine kind of mentioned about like the backstory of it all is that you've been very communicative of it. And one thing that I've learned in relationships and through therapy is that sometimes I think that they're like, I get obsessed with the idea of resolution, that there has to be like this tangible thing that kind of happens. And I know that it's not perfect and I recognize that it's like painful and you're like in a lot of like Ajita Yiddish term that my therapist Carol taught me. I love it. The fact that you're, you're, you're able to have like that, that those open lines of communication, even just addressing it without giving an ultimatum or backing him into a corner or whatever it is, makes it a safe space for him to be able to have a conversation to take in what your feelings and, like, the stuff that you're dealing with and vice versa. But I feel like, yeah, presenting it as sort of starting with, like, the good and then going to, like, I'm really struggling with this. And, like, I could use your health. Not telling him specifically, like, get your ass out of the house or kick her out, or imposing, like, some kind of, like, severe, like, restrictions or, like, or, or, or hard rules that are just going to be hard to abide by. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Yeah, it does. I have been very focused on, like, trying to resolve this, and, yeah, there's no resolution until he moves out, so it's hard.

[Katherine]

We added a little context when you and I chatted earlier. Tell us the timeline. So this was, like, a while ago that they slept together. Right.

[Caller]

So when we had our fight, he was, like, getting confused about the dates. I can be pretty intense, and I think he got a little, like, flustered. Like, I was questioning him a little too hard. So here's the real timeline. We started dating last November. He moved in with her last August, and they slept together last September. So I'm like, that's fresh.

[Katherine]

Okay, so, like, two months before you guys got together, how did he, how.

[Chelsea Handler]

Did he reveal this to you?

[Caller]

So I was friends with him because we're coworkers before, and he told me about it just kind of casually because we were becoming good friends. He was like, yeah, I slept with my roommate. What do you think about that? And I was like, that's a bit messy, but okay. So I always knew that when I started developing feelings for him.

[Katherine]

Chelsea, I'm actually kind of surprised about your advice here.

[Chelsea Handler]

Why?

[Katherine]

I. I don't know. I just. I thought that your advice would be more along the lines of, like, it's okay he's moving out, putting Laura at, At ease. And I'm. Yeah, I just think that's very interesting.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, well, I love surprising you.

[Caller]

That's one of my surprises.

[Katherine]

I love when you think joys in.

[Chelsea Handler]

Life and joys in life.

[Katherine]

But, like.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I, I. Yeah, I don't know. I think there's something, like, it's just an interesting start to a relationship, so you'd want to pay attention to it.

[Katherine]

And you're correct. It is messy.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And it doesn't have to be messier. You could be clean about it. You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. Like, you say this and you kind of. You're not breaking up with him. You're just kind of saying, like, I'm not cool. These are my standards. They have to be met. So if you really care, go fucking meet them.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Katherine]

Would you, like, participate in, like, a cooling off period while he's looking for a house?

[Chelsea Handler]

What do you mean by he's not gonna want that? Yeah, like, if he's looking for a house actively, he's gonna want to be like, okay, you know, come with me. Look at the house. Da, da, da, da. And then, then I would be like, okay, you know, it's clearly happening, but not until, like, he's actually taking active steps that you've seen some of the houses and he's doing anything he can to make sure that you feel safe.

[Antony Perofsky]

And, Laura, I feel like you'll know if he's doing those. Like, he's gonna be. He's gonna want to tell you, like, oh, yeah, like, I had an appointment at a place, and, like, this place is interesting, and I didn't like it because it didn't have X, Y and z, but you know what I mean? Like, I feel like he's gonna include you in the narrative. Seems like you guys communicate pretty well.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I, like, last weekend we looked at a house together. Like, we communicate great. Like, I love everything about him except for this.

[Katherine]

For those nights that you are apart and, like, he is with, you know, quote unquote, with her at their apartment. I'd say, like, remember that he's into you. Harness your inner zen and, like, remember that, like, you're the person that he cares about. He stopped sleeping with her before you guys started hooking up or getting together before you guys got together. And, like, you're the one he's into and, like, rest easy in that, I think.

[Chelsea Handler]

But also play the role that you just said you have played in your life, which is you're not like that. Like, so remind yourself of the queen that you are in the moments that you don't feel like it. Remember. Yeah, I am. I am that way. This is a circumstantial. This is making me feel this way. These are not logical thoughts, period.

[Antony Perofsky]

Mm.

[Katherine]

Yep. And, like, there will be a new season very soon when he's got his own place, right?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Won't matter then.

[Katherine]

Yeah. All right, Laura, best of luck and keep us posted. Okay?

[Caller]

Okay, thank you, everyone. It was so nice to meet you.

[Antony Perofsky]

Thank you. Nice to meet you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, awesome. Bye. That was my favorite kind of call ever.

[Katherine]

I know.

[Chelsea Handler]

I love that kind of personal, like, interpersonal relationships, boundaries. I'm down with all of it.

[Antony Perofsky]

There's so much to unpack with it, though. I feel like I'm gonna be thinking about it hours from now being like, oh, shit, I should have said that. You know what I mean?

[Katherine]

I also think age, in my opinion, has something to do with it because she's like 27. I feel like when you're 27, like, your person's exes feel so huge and they loom so large and to have them in the second bedroom, it's like, terrifying. But if she was 10 years older, I'd be like, okay, this isn't great, but, like, you know, we're moving forward.

[Antony Perofsky]

27 year olds seem so much more evolved than they did when I was 27. Or maybe I'm just internalizing because I was a mess.

[Katherine]

Should we take a quick break and then come back for our last call?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, let's take a break and we'll come back and do our last one. Okay, so we're gonna take a break with Antony Barofsky and then we're coming back.

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

Morning brings a fresh, new energy.

[Antony Perofsky]

This is today.

[Katherine]

And no matter what the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Chelsea Handler]

When things are tough, we talk about it. When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it.

[Katherine]

Because today is where it's all happening. We get the best start to every morning because we start it together.

[Chelsea Handler]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie.

[Antony Perofsky]

And Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. And we're back with Antony Barofsky.

[Katherine]

Oh, it's Piro, right?

[Chelsea Handler]

Porofsky. Am I saying Barofsky?

[Antony Perofsky]

Close.

[Chelsea Handler]

What did I say?

[Antony Perofsky]

It's one letter.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, Perofsky. Sorry, I've been saying B.

[Antony Perofsky]

You're good.

[Chelsea Handler]

You're.

[Katherine]

It's a P. Well, Hannah says. Dear Chelsea, I need advice from someone wiser than me. The past year and a half has been filled with change and heartbreak, leaving me feeling lonely and lost. Growing up, I never had close friends. I floated from group to group but never felt truly like I belonged. As a shy, introverted person, this wasn't surprising. After college, I moved to Utah to be a ski bum. And for the first time, I found like minded people. I belonged. I came out of my shell, built a social life and formed friendships where I felt supported. I had community. Over time, we all grew up to some degree. I became a lawyer, bought a house here, and found ways to keep skiing integral to my life. My friends evolved too, and through the changes, I believed we'd remain close forever. But life had other plans. Friends got married, moved away, had children, or found new priorities. The tight knit group I cherished slowly dissolved and I find myself floating again. The most recent gut punch came from a friend I've always considered family. She's planning a small bachelorette party for her close friends and I'm not invited. She said we're at different life stages. She and her fiance spend time with other couples while I'm single. That stung deeply. Early this year, another friend ended our relationship with a hurtful tirade. She said she didn't see a place for me in her life because I don't want kids. It's not that I haven't made new friends. I have. I've connected with an amazing group of women who Share my love for skiing and ice climbing. Yet I still grieve the friendships I thought would last a lifetime, the ones that felt like family. I feel like I've been in a painful, unrelenting cycle of relationship loss since my ex and I broke up in the spring of 2023. So how do you mourn the pain of losing friendships? And how do you build meaningful friendships as an adult, especially in the second half of your 30s? Hannah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Hannah.

[Caller]

Hi.

[Antony Perofsky]

Hi.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Anthony Perovsky with a p. Hi.

[Caller]

Nice to meet you.

[Antony Perofsky]

Nice to meet you. Wait, can I ask? How long were you and your ex together when you broke up in 2023.

[Caller]

Three years.

[Antony Perofsky]

Three years. Okay. My therapist says it can take, like, half the amount of time of the relationship to. To get to a place where you kind of, like, feel like you're a normal, ish human being again. So I don't know if, like, you're dealing with that or if that's something that's helpful, but, like, be gentle with yourself with, like, healing, because it's not linear. It's super freaking messy, and you can be feeling amazing one day and then kind of go down the next, but. Kelsey, thoughts?

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I was gonna say I write about this in my new book, I'll have what She's Having, which just came out. I write about this very thing, about losing friendships that we've had for a really long time, and the understanding that comes from a lot of inner work and a lot of therapy that not everybody is your friend forever. And some people are supporting characters in your story, and sometimes we're a supporting character in another story. The endings of friendships, while painful and hurtful, are not meant for your grief. They're meant to understand that that door has closed, and now there's an opening for a deeper, more profound friendship than the ones you had before. My circle of close friends. Now that I'm about to be, well, I'm 50. When this comes out, I'll have turned 50. My circle of friends and the support group I have now is more loyal, loving, supportive than anything. It makes me understand that I'm a good person. The people I have around me now makes me believe I deserved this and I earned this. Whereas when I was younger, in my 40s or in my 30s, I had a lot of people around me who did not have my best interests, who did not have my support. While I treasured our friendships with these people, they were not good for me, and they outlasted their expiration date the same way many relationships. So our job isn't to mourn the loss of friendships. It's to understand that that part of our life is gone and to welcome the new and there will be new friendships. And you know now how meaningful friendships can be. So you're going to be already operating in a different way within a new friendship.

[Caller]

Do you feel like the friendships that you've made like, that are in your close circle of friends now? Are they people you've met in the last, like 10 years? Are there any people who.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, tons. Tons of them I've just met in the last 10 years. I have maybe three, four, well, probably more people that have been in my life for 10 plus years that are not family, you know, people that I've known. I mean, it's longer than that. The older I get, the longer that list is. But, you know, plenty of them are new people. Like, I'm always making new friends, I'm always meeting new people and I'm always learning things and understanding like, oh, friendships can be even richer than I had thought when I was younger.

[Antony Perofsky]

I 100% agree with that. I think sort of like leaning into the permanence of things, whether it's like a relationship or friendships, it doesn't make sense at the time. But I feel like when I look back at really close friends that I've lost that I thought were going to be in my life forever, I'm sort of like, whether there was resentment or I did the cutoff or they did, or we just organically kind of like grew apart, a lot of them also, I could definitely relate to like the having kids part. It all kind of like makes sense when you look back, which is kind of like the weird thing and the annoying thing about life is that like, once enough time has passed and you've been able to like process the feelings and deal with all of the. The different stages of grief, the denial, anger, bereavement, depression, acceptance, like all of that messy stuff. You look back and you're sort of like, oh, like that kind of made sense. And I will point to. I had this argument with a friend about. She was saying how like, oh, it's so much harder to make friends when you're like in your 30s and your 40s than when you're younger. It's not that it's harder. I think that it can become more challenging if you're working on yourself because your antennas are up for what you're going to tolerate and what you're not going to tolerate. But some of my most close. I refer to it as My board of directors. It's like the people that I go to when I really need advice, where I need to be, like, right size, who I, like, really trust, they're going to tell me the truth. I wouldn't be scared of, like, not meeting those people at where you're at in life right now. Because, like, my. One of my closest friends, Leah, we were, like, casual acquaintances. And then in the past year and a half, we have become inseparable. Part of it was trauma bonding, but, like, we've gotten really close. So I think just, like, be open to the possibility of, like, that. It's never. It's just dynamic and there's impermanence and things end. And it's like, there. There's. It's. It's that whole, like, that dumb line about. Well, it's not that dumb because I think it makes sense. It's like, people are in your life for, like, a reason. A season or a lifetime or whatever it is. I do really believe that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Does any of this help you?

[Caller]

Yeah, no, this is helpful. Hearing it back is helpful.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Don't spend time thinking about the past and relationships that are no longer there. It's just kind of a wasted regret, and it's an old habit. Just focus on the now and the possibilities of the future and being grateful for everyone in your life that you do like. And all the new people just show a lot of gratitude and it'll keep showing up for you.

[Caller]

The newer friends I've made are great, and it's been really fun to have them, so I felt a little awkward being, like, upset about this, but it's, like, a big change for me to go through, so.

[Antony Perofsky]

But I think that's a bit. You seem like a vulnerable, sensitive human being, which are really beautiful things. And maybe the way you're feeling that way is because you care, because you give a shit about them. And, like, yeah, it sucks when people leave our lives. And it's like they were there for a really important, important chapter, and we learned so much of them. But I think. Think being ex. Like, knowing the difference between what I can change in my life and I'm not good at this. So I have to remind myself all the time the things that I can't control versus versus the things that I can. I constantly have to be checking myself and being like, why am I focusing all my energy on this thing that I have no control over? That's like, in the past, as opposed to, like, I can focus to Chelsea's point about gratitude or. Or, like, spend Time on the wonderful people who are in your life. You know what I mean? Like, I've. I've had that situation with family cutoffs where people completely cut each other off. We've been each other our entire lives because we just don't know how to talk to each other. And at one point, it's sort of like, you're not going to give me the fucking time Today I'm gonna. Sorry. I'm gonna focus on someone who is. I can put my. All my attention and my love towards them because you clearly have so much to give. Sorry, I know that sounded really queer. I. But I mean that. I don't know. You just seem like a really sweet girl.

[Caller]

So the friend who didn't invite me to the bachelorette party, she texted me last week and asked if I would still do the flowers for her wedding. So do I do it?

[Katherine]

Oh, the pl.

[Chelsea Handler]

That part again.

[Caller]

Friend who told me I'm not a close friend and not invited to her bachelorette texted me to ask if I would still do the flowers for her wedding.

[Antony Perofsky]

Under, like, a beautiful Venus fly trap.

[Katherine]

Like, is she gonna hire you to do her flowers? Because that's a very expensive proposition.

[Caller]

No, it was something I had offered to do way back.

[Chelsea Handler]

Just say, when I got disinvited from, you know, whatever, the bachelorette weekend, I just assumed that you didn't want me to make the flowers, so I haven't planned on doing that. Right. Why would you do that for her?

[Katherine]

Are you going to the wedding as well?

[Caller]

I'm invited?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Are you. Do you want to go?

[Caller]

I feel like it might be more awkward if I don't. I don't know.

[Antony Perofsky]

Trust your gut, though. Sit it. Sit in. Sit at it for a moment. Like, wait until the RSVP is due and, like, think about it, because it's like, you've got to take care of yourself, too. And if, like, if she made you feel that way. I don't like that.

[Chelsea Handler]

No. That's nasty.

[Antony Perofsky]

It sounds like the friendship is on her terms. I don't want you in this, but, like, I want you to do that. Like, I don't like that. I don't like to exist in a space like that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And I don't like that you being taken advantage of in that way. Like, say you were to show up with those flowers. What does that say about you that you don't.

[Katherine]

Someone who's close enough.

[Chelsea Handler]

Dignity.

[Katherine]

Yeah. Someone who's close enough to do flowers for your wedding at no cost is someone who should be invited to the close friends, quote, unquote bachelorette party.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah, Maybe write that and just say so. I am assuming you don't expect that. Since I'm not invited to the thing, I'm assuming you don't want me.

[Katherine]

Right, right. Or what you said before about, like, well, so I wasn't planning on. I love that language. I think that's great language.

[Antony Perofsky]

Also playing the Tate forward. I can't imagine you would enjoy the process with all of the weight around this of planting flowers for her. That feels like a personal, intimate thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's almost like you have no backbone if you do that. And it's not about ego. It's just about, like, you're treating me like shit and I'm taking it, like, in the mouth. No, thank you. And also that's like, please have some sort of positive affirmation that you do in the morning, like reminding yourself that you're a powerful woman and you have the ability to not allow people to push you around and that you're valuable and your friendship is valuable. Keep saying that to yourself.

[Caller]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[Katherine]

Thanks, Hannah.

[Antony Perofsky]

Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Okay. And start believing it too, please. Thank you. Class is dismissed. Thank you, guys. First of all, Anthony, what a fun, fun. You're my favorite Queer Eye so far out of the two men.

[Antony Perofsky]

No, I'm kidding.

[Chelsea Handler]

Definitely better. Yeah, you're definitely. You're my favorite over Bobby Burke and I'll tell him to his face when I see him. Are you in New York or la?

[Antony Perofsky]

New York is home, but I'm currently in LA this week.

[Katherine]

And Anthony, where can people find no taste like home?

[Antony Perofsky]

So glad you asked. It's going to be on linear on nat Geo on February 23rd and then Disney and Hulu on the 24th.

[Chelsea Handler]

Ooh, Disney plus Daddy.

[Antony Perofsky]

Daddy Disney.

[Katherine]

Daddy Disney owns everything now.

[Chelsea Handler]

Daddy is Disney.

[Katherine]

All right, thank you so much, Anthony.

[Antony Perofsky]

Chelsea. Enjoy all the skiing and fucking hot cocoa and the powder. I was just in Aspen for gay ski week, which is so unlike me, but I'm like, trying to make more gay friends. Yeah. Since I was 4 years old.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, fun.

[Antony Perofsky]

I love it. I'm sick for it. There's nothing more freeing than skiing.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yeah, I love skiing.

[Antony Perofsky]

Yeah, it's amazing.

[Chelsea Handler]

Thank you. Appreciate that. Do do, do, do, do, do. Drum roll. Catherine, please. Chelsea Handler Abroad. Abroad is my European tour, which I just announced. Tickets go on sale tomorrow or today or there's a pre sale code, Chelsea. So I'm coming to obviously find a husband abroad. I need to get the hell out of this fucking country. And it's not as easy as you think. So I'm coming to Reykjavik, I'm coming to Dublin, I'm coming to the UK I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June. I'm coming to Oslo, Stockholm, to Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow, New Zurich, Vienna. I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin, Barcelona and Lisbon. I'm coming abroad is abroad.

[Katherine]

That sounds like fun. I'm gonna go see you abroad.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know I want to go see me abroad and there I'll be there. I'll be okay. All upcoming Vegas dates March 21, April 18, July 5, August 30, November 1, and 29th at the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas. My book tour. I'll have what she's having means I am doing book events. February 26, Brookline Booksmith. February 27, Cincinnati, Ohio. February 28, the H Foundation in Chicago and Barnes and Noble at the Grove in Los Angeles on March 1, and then Seattle, Washington on March 3, Elliot Bay and I'll see you guys all there.

[Katherine]

If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an [e-mail] and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Kathryn Law. And be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com.

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[Caller]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

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