Struggle Meals with David Oyelowo

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dear Chelsea – "Struggle Meals with David Oyelowo"

Date: April 9, 2026
Host: Chelsea Handler
Co-host: Katherine Law
Guest: David Oyelowo

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Overview

This heartfelt and engaging episode features acclaimed actor and producer David Oyelowo, joining Chelsea Handler and Katherine Law to discuss his life, career, and the struggle meals that shaped him. In classic "Dear Chelsea" style, the conversation oscillates between deeply personal stories, impactful life advice, and moments of laughter. Oyelowo reflects on family, career setbacks, and the power of love, while also diving into heavy topics like solitary confinement, and the struggles of starting over. The latter half of the episode features advice sessions with listeners facing dilemmas in dating and relationships, providing both practical tips and inspirational encouragement.

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Episode Highlights and Key Discussion Points

1. Catching Up: Chelsea’s New House, Touring, and Guest Introduction (04:23-08:14)

• Chelsea and Katherine share updates—Chelsea’s new house is serene and beautiful, and she’s catching up on rest after her tour.
  • “I slept 13 hours, two nights in a row with the help of a little Xanax and edibles.” – Chelsea (04:42)
• Katherine reminisces about Chicago theater memories; Chelsea teases appearances in Chicago (06:11-07:22)
• David joins, praised as "one of the great actors of our time" and introduced as the executive producer of the new film Newborn.

2. Family, Sacrifice, and Joy: David’s Personal Life (08:14-12:47)

• David celebrates his birthday with his family after a long shoot in the Canary Islands, underscoring a two-week rule on marital separation:
  • “My wife and I actually have a two-week rule. We're never apart for more than two weeks.” (08:39)
• His eldest son's engagement coincided with David’s return, adding to family joy.
• The pandemic deepened their familial bond: “We just kind of coalesced as a family… in this really amazing way that hasn’t abated.” (09:47)
• David has been with his wife since their teens and highlights her late-diagnosed ADHD revealing her Mensa-level IQ, joking:
  • “Such great bragging rights, by the way.” (11:53)
• David and his wife co-run a production company and often foster connections leading to love, including officiating a wedding for colleagues met on their set.

3. "Newborn": Solitary Confinement, Method Acting & Resilience (12:55-19:34)

• David discusses his role in Newborn, portraying a man in solitary confinement.
• Research included reading “Solitary” by Albert Woodfox and shadowing Richard Rosario, a real-life wrongfully convicted man.
• Sobering stat: "There are 80,000 people in solitary confinement today in America, men, women and children.” (15:06)
• The human need for connection: “Our connection to humanity is literally what defines us as human… The only thing that kept him remotely sane was knowing his wife and two kids were out there.” (16:24)
• His father's death on the first day of shooting added personal gravity to the project.

4. Names, Family Humor & Oprah’s Mentorship (18:54-26:16)

• Humorous story: David’s father, a stickler for their Nigerian last name, always mispronounced Oprah’s.
  • “He would always call it Opera. Opera. Winifre. Opera.” (19:09)
• Oprah became a mentor, supporting him through feelings of isolation in Hollywood and sharing her own struggles with belonging and mentorship, passed on from Sidney Poitier.
  • "What he did for me, I'm going to do for you." – Oprah to David (23:13)
• Oprah’s lesson on financial literacy: “Do everything you can to get out of debt as quickly as you can.” (25:30)
• David’s parents initially discouraged his artistic ambitions, unable to see Black British role models for him to emulate.

5. The Move to America: Career Highs & Struggle Meals (26:23-35:18)

• David moved from the UK so he could have the kinds of career opportunities he couldn’t access abroad.
  • “You cannot be what you cannot see.” (27:20)
• Transition involved major culture shock: lack of credit history, adapting to the schooling system, and significant financial hardship during the 2008 crash and Writer’s Strike.
  • Reached a point of having only $3 left:
    • “I gave her $2, and I held on to one and I went, this is us.” (32:44)
  • Touching moment: Friends Kate Mara and Charlie Cox brought a $400 Trader Joe’s voucher after an obviously "struggle meal" lunch.
    • “We ran to Trader Joe’s after we got that voucher, and that’s how bad it was.” (34:16)

6. On Selma, John Lewis, and Playing MLK Jr. (35:41-40:36)

• David recounts meeting civil rights legend John Lewis on set; Lewis addressed David as Dr. King, blending history with performance in a surreal and meaningful moment.
  • “He just leaned into me and said, Dr. King, it is so good to see you again.” (38:27)
• Narrowly avoided performing in front of Lewis due to a fortuitous thunderstorm.

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Advice Segment: Listener Questions & Oyelowo’s Wisdom

1. Inexperience in Dating (47:36-59:21)

Caller: Nishat, age 34, first-time dater from a sheltered immigrant background.

• Struggles with modern dating apps and feels unfit due to a lack of experience.
• Chelsea’s advice: Get a therapist for support, focus on intentional, low-pressure dates (like coffee), and remain open.
• Katherine’s advice: Reconnect with friends or find cheerleaders to support and encourage.
• David’s advice:
  • “How can you be active rather than reactive...some of what I expressed here today is my own parents' perceptions that were being transposed onto me.” (54:28)
  • Encourages Nishat to reject inherited limitations, dispel shame, build confidence in non-dating social activities, and keep putting herself out there.
  • “From a faith standpoint, I was a virgin when I got married…and it has proved to be something that is wonderful for me." (55:30)
  • Highlights that everyone’s journey is different; less dating experience isn’t a deficit.
  • Shares a hopeful real-life example of a couple meeting in their 40s: “I'm literally officiating the wedding of my assistant on Saturday. She's in her 40s. Her husband to be is in his 40s. They met on set… it can still, still happen.” (58:47)

2. How to Leave a Loveless, Problematic Relationship (61:05-68:23)

Caller: Evelyn, mother of a 15-month-old, feels unable to leave her unfaithful, incompatible partner due to financial dependence and fear.

• Chelsea’s advice:
  • “The people in your life that love you, they already know what the situation is, and they're going to be very more helpful than you know. When you reach out and ask for help, people really want to help you.” (61:50)
  • Stresses the importance of acting for the benefit of her child’s future and her own well-being.
• David’s advice:
  • “You have tried and tested this person and they are not to be trusted...you've done your part.” (63:04)
  • Defines love as sacrifice; stresses trusting your instincts, acknowledges that the next phase will bring hard moments, but ultimately greater self-love and opportunities.
  • “You know the answer to your own question… The sooner you make the step, the sooner you will get through what will be a period of mourning, a period of pain, a period of maybe even some doubt, but you will come out the other side into something better.” (65:11)
• Katherine’s advice: Reinforces Evelyn’s bravery and capability to handle the change, assuring her the outcome is worth the pain of transition.

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Notable Quotes

• On family and love:

  • “We were always close but during the pandemic… we just kind of coalesced as a family.” – David Oyelowo (09:44)
  • “There’s not enough [love] in the world. So I feel like when you find it, you gotta talk about it.” – David Oyelowo (12:41)

• On adversity and growth:

  • “At least we have each other, you know? And I sort of felt rich again, because not everyone even has that.” – David Oyelowo (32:57)
  • “Quality of time is going to be better than the quality of time you have now, because now you're kind of shielding, protecting her in a sense...” – Chelsea Handler to Evelyn (68:07)

• On mentorship:

  • “What he did for me, I'm going to do for you.” – Oprah to David Oyelowo (23:13)
  • “You can only make new mistakes, not old ones. I'll tell you the old ones.” – Paraphrasing Oprah (24:19)

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Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Chelsea raves about David’s Mensa-certified wife (10:44)
• David’s moving struggle meals and $3 story (32:44)
• Oprah’s mentorship and advice on finances (23:13, 25:30)
• David’s awe-inspiring encounter with John Lewis (38:27)
• David shares being a virgin until marriage & the value of unique paths (55:30)
• David officiating a set-inspired wedding for colleagues in their 40s (58:38)
• Advice segment highlights: letting go of shame, trusting gut, bravery in change (All of 47:36–68:23)

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains a warm, candid, and empathetic tone, combining humor with gravitas. Chelsea’s signature wit provides levity between the serious and heartfelt, while David’s sincerity and thoughtfulness underpin every story and piece of advice. Katherine acts as both supportive co-host and empathetic friend to callers and guests alike.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a multifaceted look at resilience—whether in family, career, or love. David Oyelowo’s journey from struggle meals to Hollywood success is both humbling and inspiring, while his practical and deeply human advice to listeners is a powerful reminder to remain intentional, dispel generational shame, and act bravely in pursuit of growth and happiness.

Transcript

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Michael Easter]

2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter and on my podcast 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

[Michael Easter]

Listen to 2%. That's 2% on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, for the high and mighty tour people, we Are rocking and rolling. These are the shows we have coming up. Chicago. April 10th, I start Chicago. Then I have Indianapolis on the 11th and then Louisville, California, Kentucky on April 12th. April 16th is Albuquerque. April 17th is Mesa, Arizona. April 23rd is Kansas City, Missouri. April 24th is St. Louis, Missouri. April 25th is Minneapolis. April 30th, Nashville. May 1st Charlotte, North Carolina. May 2nd is Durham, North Carolina. May 6th in Los Angeles at the Saban Theater for Netflix is a joke. April 15, I will be in Saratoga. April 16, Monterey. April 17, Modesto. I will be in Port Chester on June 4. June 5, I will be in Boston, Massachusetts. June 12, I will be in Portland, Oregon. And June 13, I will be in Seattle, Washington. June 27 is going to be Hyannis, Massachusetts. August 6 is Red Bank, New Jersey. August 7, I'm coming home to Montclair, New Jersey. August 15 is Calgary, Alberta, Canada. September 18, Santa Barbara. September 19, San Diego. September 25, I will be at the Beacon in New York City. September 26, I will be in Philadelphia. September 27, New Haven, Connecticut. October 2, Atlanta, Georgia. October 3, Baltimore, Maryland. October 4, Saginaw, Michigan. October 9 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. October 10, Toronto, Canada. October 16, I'm coming to Boise, Idaho. October 17 Spokane, Washington. November 7, I will be in San Francisco and November 13, Salt Lake City. November 20 Austin. November 21, Houston, Texas. November 22, Irving, Texas. December 5, I am adding a second show in Denver for those of you who couldn't get tickets to the first one. And on December 6th, I will be coming to Vancouver, Canada. Okay, those are all my dates for the High and Mighty door. Go to chelseahandler.com for tickets. Hi, Katherine.

[Katherine Law]

Hi, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Handler]

How are you? I'm coming to you from my brand new house. You know what?

[Katherine Law]

Your assistant said that you are loving it. And I was like, she's loving it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Who said that? Who said that? Garen? I am, I am. I am.

[Katherine Law]

I am so happy about that.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's actually very quite. It's quite peaceful considering all of the hullabaloo. I guess maybe I just needed to get out my last vomit bath about it. But it's really beautiful. I mean, it's very. It is gorgeous, serene and beautiful. And I spent the last two days because I've been on tour, as you know. I spent the last two days sleeping. I slept 13 hours, two nights in a row with the help of a little Xanax and edibles.

[Katherine Law]

I texted you at what, 6:40 yesterday and I was like, she's. I know. She's gone.

[Chelsea Handler]

She's not responding. I was like, I was like, wait. I was done with my day yesterday at 2:30 and I was like, how long did do I have to wait before I take my Xanax? I watched the new season of I watched the new season of Euphoria. I watched three episodes of that.

[Katherine Law]

Amazing.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I was like, is it great? It's fucking awesome.

[David Oyelowo]

Good.

[Chelsea Handler]

And yeah, I was just having a great time. I'm having a great time recuperating. I love bet. I love bet me and Canta mi kama. I just can't get enough. Also the feeling when you wake up. Like I wake up to pee at around midnight and I'm like, I look at the clock and I'm like, oh God, this is amazing. I have like six more hours to go.

[Katherine Law]

That is the best feeling when you're like, it's not almost dawn. Like I have so much more time.

[Chelsea Handler]

No. And I have shows this weekend. There are tickets still available for the Indianapolis show. On Saturday I'm at the Marat Theater. And then on Sunday I'm in Louisville, Kentucky at the Palace Theater and there are tickets still available for that too. So Friday I'm in Chicago at the Chicago theater that's sold out, thankfully.

[Katherine Law]

And I've got people coming to see you in Chicago. You know, my sister in law is going to be there. My her girlfriends. Yeah. And they're all Dear Chelsea fans. So.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, and I'm also doing an Owls Brew event people, on Thursday afternoon in Chicago. So look that up for Owls Brew for my vodka lemonade. I'm going to be in person, in store. In person.

[David Oyelowo]

Chelsea, were you playing this weekend?

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Is it the Chicago theater?

[Chelsea Handler]

Chicago theater, yeah.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Nice. Do you know that the first time I asked Katherine out was after a show there? I was playing and there was an after party and I asked her out

[David Oyelowo]

for the first time there. So it's a really special place to it.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's true.

[Katherine Law]

It was the IO 25th anniversary that like will go down in infamy. Like every famous person who went through I.O. or improv Olympic like came back to the city and like none of the audio worked at this 5,000 seat theater. So people just like left and Brad was playing a show, I was seeing a show and then went to the Oscar.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, that's funny. That's funny. That's too red.

[Katherine Law]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I'll be celebrating your love while I'm there, you guys.

[Katherine Law]

Thank you, Chelsea. Think of us.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, and also for those of you in Chicago, I'll be at. It's called The Jewel Osco is the liquor store that I will be at for the event from 1:30 to 3pm on April 10.

[David Oyelowo]

They call it the Jewels.

[Katherine Law]

Also spend a lot of really quality time at Jul.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh my God. That's pretty funny.

[Katherine Law]

It's like the Albertsons of Illinois.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, great. Well, I'm glad I'm getting to hit that spot. Enjoy, enjoy.

[Katherine Law]

Well, I am thrilled for our guest today. He is. I think he's one of our great actors of our time.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, he's actually really. Yeah, he's definitely one of the great actors of our time. And our interview with him was really. I really loved speaking with him and he gave great advice. So I always love when a straight man could do that.

[Katherine Law]

He gave really great and thoughtful advice. Like really great.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, it's very nice when people are thoughtful. Our guest today is an actor and an executive producer of the new film Newborn. Please welcome David Oyellow. O hi, David.

[David Oyelowo]

Hello.

[Chelsea Handler]

So nice to see you.

[David Oyelowo]

Nice to see you too. Again, I don't know if you remember when at the Critics Choice. I think that's the last time I saw you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah, Backstage. That was right? Yeah, yeah. That was like two years ago, right?

[David Oyelowo]

That's right.

[Katherine Law]

That's right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. David, happy birthday, first of all.

[David Oyelowo]

Thank you. Thank you. It was yesterday. I had an amazing time.

[Chelsea Handler]

What did you do to celebrate?

[David Oyelowo]

So I've been shooting a show in the Canary Islands and I've been there since January. I love my home, I love my kids, I love my wife and I've missed them all terribly. My wife and I actually have a two week rule. We're never apart for more than two weeks. So she's been toing and froing from the Canary Islands. But I haven't seen my kids for a while. So just being here to celebrate with them. And then we have had this extraordinary circumstance whereby my eldest son got engaged three days ago.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow.

[David Oyelowo]

And this happened while I was on the plane from Tenerife to la. My wife sent me a text saying she said yes. She sends me the video. I couldn't download it on the plane. It was infuriating.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know that feeling.

[David Oyelowo]

I know, I know. So the glow of all of that was in the party yesterday. It was a phenomenal time.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, that's so exciting. Congratulations on all fronts.

[David Oyelowo]

I know, it's really great. I'm very happy.

[Chelsea Handler]

And having a family that likes to spend time with their parents also congratulations on that.

[David Oyelowo]

I know, yeah. It's actually something happened with our family. We were always close but during the pandemic, even though that was such a devastating time for so many people, for us, we just kind of coalesced as a family. We just, you know, everyone's going to school and I'm going off doing jobs, and my wife and I run a company. We had this year and a half, two years where we just kind of went together, you know, in this really amazing way that hasn't abated. And so, yeah, we really love each other's company.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's so sweet. And you and your wife have been together since you were teenagers, Correct?

[David Oyelowo]

We met when we were 17 and 18 doing youth theater. And we've been. We've known each other, we worked out for nearly 32 years. Now we've been married for 20, 27 years.

[Chelsea Handler]

32 years together, four children.

[David Oyelowo]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Nice. This is all nice.

[David Oyelowo]

Yes, yes. Yeah, I'm very blessed.

[Chelsea Handler]

And she's also a member of Mensa, which I think is worth mentioning.

[David Oyelowo]

Can we just take a moment to give my wife some props. My wife some props on that? Yeah. So she very late diagnosis for ADHD and went in for the testing for it. And the person doing the testing was like, by the way, this testing we're doing on you signifies very high iq. Have you ever tested that side range? Went. No. And so incredibly, a byproduct of what could be perceived as some kind of deficiency in terms of ADHD is what illustrated that she has this off the charts iq.

[Chelsea Handler]

I love that. First of all, we were just talking. Me and my friend were talking two nights ago about getting tested because we. We couldn't decide which disorder we had, ADD or adhd. I believe I just have add. I don't have the hyperactive part, but he was saying that I do. Anyway, this is a great incentive for everybody listening since we all have some form of this. Because you could find out that you're a member of mensa.

[David Oyelowo]

Exactly, Exactly. Such great bragging rights, by the way.

[Chelsea Handler]

That would be a real feather in my cap, quite frankly. So speaking of your wife, she's also a produce.

[David Oyelowo]

No, she. So we run a production company together. And so our production company produced this. She's not a producer on it, but she is a producer, and we've produced stuff together. In fact, this is how much love is in the air, Chelsea. So upstairs, this is my office building. We are preparing for my assistant who fell in love with our art director on a show that my wife and I produced called Bass Reeves, and I'm officiating their wedding on Saturday.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God. Love is just spreading love around town like it's nobody's business. Watch out.

[David Oyelowo]

I know, I know. There's not enough of it in the world. So I feel like when you find it, you gotta talk about it.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's true. We gotta double down on all sorts of love and all kindness, especially to strangers. Everybody listening? Be kind to strangers. People need love right now.

[David Oyelowo]

I couldn't agree more.

[Chelsea Handler]

Let's talk about your movie, which is called Newborn. It's out now in AMC theaters. So this is a story about a man who was inside solitary confinement for seven years. And I know you're a method. You're a method guy. Is that accurate?

[David Oyelowo]

Well, I would say whatever the part requires. I feel like I'm in service of. So, you know, I definitely would not apply what I guess people call a method to, you know, a comedy or something that doesn't require that level of, as I say, giving yourself over to something. Sometimes you're playing something that's closer to yourself. Sometimes it's very far from yourself. And so, yes, to your point, in playing Chris Newborn, a guy who had endured seven years of solitary confinement, which is something I simply cannot personally get my head around, given my own very blessed circumstances and experience. I read a lot about it. I read a book called Solitary by a guy called Albert Woodfox, who had endured, believe it or not, over 40 years of solitary confinement for something he didn't. A crime he didn't commit. But I also shadowed a guy called Richard Rosario, who was wrongfully convicted of a crime. He served 20 of the 25 years he was convicted for. Seven of those were in solitary. And in talking to him, I started to get a sense of what the role requires. And so, yes, to a certain extent, I had to sort of give myself over to that in order to come close to telling the truth of that awful situation.

[Chelsea Handler]

So what did you learn from these guys? I mean, fill us in. Like, how does someone move on from. I mean, as you can see in the movie, which is really beautiful, and Denzel Washington's daughter is in the movie, who is absolutely fantastic. She's gorgeous, a gorgeous actor. And you guys are great together. And as you depict in the movie, you could see, what did you pick up from them in, like, researching this role that really helped inform you that you were maybe surprised to learn so many things.

[David Oyelowo]

I mean, there are so many things that we don't know that we should know. One of them being that there are 80,000 people in solitary confinement today in America, men, women and children. So it is Widespread as a practice in talking to Richard and in studying up on this. After 13 days, studies have shown you're never the same again. There is a psychic break that happens that you will just never fully recover from because it's 23 hours a day, every day, fluorescent lights are on all the time. Almost everyone in those wings are dealing with mental illness. So they're screaming, and it's just sensory overload with complete isolation. So let alone seven years of that. And I think what I learned from Richard, specifically, outside of generally what happens to people, is that our connection to humanity is literally what defines us as human. So it is the ultimate form of dehumanization to not have connection with other human beings. And the only thing that kept him remotely sane was knowing his wife and two kids were out there. They loved him, and that was the only thing that gave him any kind of mod. If you don't have something to tether yourself to, it is being alive but dead, so to speak. And, you know, he has now been free for 10 years. He's still dealing with, of course, the effects of it. But he attributes his ability to still function as a human being to the love that he knew was out there for him from his family.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Was it hard for you to get out of that character after filming such a demanding, kind of mentally anguish filled movie?

[David Oyelowo]

It was very intense for me because on the first day of shooting, unfortunately, my dad, who had been dealing with stage four colon cancer, passed away on the morning of our first day of shooting. And so, weirdly, even though that was definitely not what you would want, it instantaneously put me in this place of intense retrospection, intense focus just to get through it, Combined with the great scripts that Nate Parker had written and was directing. But honestly, it was about trying to be in service of Richard and others who I had spoken to, who had dealt with this. I felt a real burden of responsibility. And so, you know, we just did everything we could to tell the truth. I mean, the good thing is I'm a father, I am a husband, I have brothers, and Chris Newborn has a brother in this film, which is also a key relationship for him. So I could identify with all of those things. Obviously, the gap in my knowledge was the extreme nature of dealing with solitary confinement.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. I mean, it is a. It makes you really think about why that's necessary in a prison system. Like, putting someone in a room alone without fluorescent lighting is bad. Like, why add all of these things that turn a person crazier than they are? It makes it's just everything is so backwards. Speaking of your father, I'm really sorry to hear that. I know that I read that your father passed away on the first day of shooting. Your father had some. I know a lot of people have trouble pronouncing your last name. Oyelowo. Oyelowo.

[David Oyelowo]

Got it. Wow, that was awesome. Firstly, you've literally disproved.

[Katherine Law]

I know.

[Chelsea Handler]

I got it. That means anybody could get it.

[David Oyelowo]

Yes, exactly. Moving on.

[Chelsea Handler]

Your dad. But your dad had problem pronouncing Oprah's name. He couldn't get that right.

[David Oyelowo]

Literally. It's so hypocritical. He would get so upset about the mispronunciation of our name and then he would always call it Opera. Opera. Winifre. Opera. But then he met her and like, to her face, opera. I was like, oh, my Lord.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, you can just attribute that to a Nigerian accent, can't you?

[David Oyelowo]

I guess so. But, you know, like, literally one of the most famous people on the planet. Let's be clear that he had heard it enough to know that it is not opera, so it slightly discounts his annoyance at our name being mispronounced.

[Michael Easter]

2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.

[Katherine Law]

We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are

[Chelsea Handler]

the result of stress.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

[Michael Easter]

Listen to 2%. That's TWA on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know that Oprah's like a very close friend to you, and you kind of used her as a gut check at different times in your career. Can you talk about that?

[David Oyelowo]

Yeah. We have a very special relationship. I met her doing a film called the Butler, which Lee Daniels directed, and we played mother and son in that film. That dynamic just never quite changed. Something truly beautiful happened even before we started shooting. We were at a party at Lee Daniel's house. We shot it in New Orleans, and he had rented a house, and we were having this party and I was Sort of stood in the corner. I was a younger actor then, still fairly new to Hollywood. My wife and I had moved here from the uk and in all honesty, I felt quite a bit of isolation. There were other things, to be perfectly frank. There were other black actors who I felt there was resistance to me. There was this sort of, I don't know, this Brit coming over here, taking our jobs kind of vibe that I was getting. And I had gone into this role that was a significant one. And in all honesty, I was kind of trepidatious about is this gonna continue to exacerbate this feeling of isolation I have from a community that I really wanna be a part of? And all that kind of stu slightly stood in the corner, and Oprah noticed this, came over to me and said, are you okay? I said, yeah, you know, I'm just dealing with a little bit of anxiety about these things. And, of course, she famously has the ability to get the truth of your soul out of you instantaneously. And so I started talking to her about this, and then she was just so open and honest about having had the same syndrome coming up as a black journalist in the south, and at that time, feeling the same thing from other black women, to be perfectly frank. And that feeling of isolation, both from her own community, but also from an industry that told her she was too fat, she was too ugly, she was too black to, you know, be anything in that world. And then she happened to meet Sidi Poitier, who expressed also having the same thing, having come over from the Caribbean and was starting to forge a. Had back in the day, forged a path in Hollywood and feeling the same sense of isolation. You know, people are threatened by success, especially when you're from a marginalized community and you feel like the pie that you want a slice of is very small. And so there's this sort of crabs in a barrel thing that can happen. And he had said to her, sidney Poitier, this is. I know exactly what you're dealing with, and I'm going to walk you through it. And he became her mentor. And this was like, the first major interaction I had had with Oprah. And she said, what he did for me, I'm going to do for you. And that was, I don't know, 15 years ago now. And she is. That has just never abated.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow, that's amazing. That's a really beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that.

[David Oyelowo]

Yeah, thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Have there been times in your career where you've gone to her at other times for advice when you're thinking about things, choosing projects or just navigating Hollywood after that.

[David Oyelowo]

All the time. All the time. Because one of the things she said to me is basically, she didn't say it like this, but. But she basically was saying, you're only allowed to make new mistakes, not old ones. I'll tell you the old ones. I'll guide you through the potholes that I stepped in so that you don't have to, basically, which is as extraordinary as an offering as you can make to someone as I think is possible. And so, yeah, whether it's financial literacy, which I had, I was very low in because my parents spent every day sort of scrabbling to put the pennies together. And, you know, they were amazing parents, but really bad business people, you know, just constantly on the precipice of bankruptcy and bailiffs at the door and, you know, just. Just never could find enough financial oxygen to not be stressed by finances. And so, you know, I just. That was the only example I had. So I associated being a father, being a husband, being a working man with that. And, you know, one of the things she taught me is, do everything you can to get out of debt as quickly as you can. Focus on that fastidiously, because the difference between wealthy people and people who are not is that they have somehow managed to get to the point whereby they can look down on their issues and have the space to strategize. When you are down on the ground scrambling to make ends meet, that's when you just inevitably make financial mistakes. You're caught in the rat race. You're caught in all of the things that keep you in financial debt. So do everything. And obviously it's not an easy thing to do. But if you. If she said she was just very conscious early on, how do I get out of debt? And I took her at her word and practiced it. And by golly, she was right.

[Chelsea Handler]

You guys moved over from the uk. How do you. Why. Why did you move over from the uk?

[David Oyelowo]

A myriad of reasons. The primary one being when I was coming up, you know, I mentioned Sidney Poitier obviously, earlier. You know, that was my hero. Denzel Washington was my hero. But we literally had no equivalence of those in the uk. With me growing up, there were no black actors I could look at and go, that's my North Star. You know, I truly believe you cannot be what you cannot see. And I didn't see anything I could aspire to. And it's also why my parents were very resistant to the idea of me being in the arts, being an actor, because I think for them, it's like there's no evidence to us that the hard work we're putting in as immigrants here in the uk, that's going to be a better life for you. And so even though I defied my parents and I went to drama school and I did all the things that continued to be the case. And so I got a few roles that got me a bit of notoriety. I did the Last King of Scotland with Forest Whitaker. I did a film of as yous like it with Kenneth Branagh. I had done a show called. It was called spooks in the UK, it was called MI5 here. There were things that sort of popped a little bit in the States, so just gave me just enough juice to turn up here. And people had seen things I had done and then I just. Even though it hadn't happened yet, I knew my career was going to plateau. I came up with actors like Tom Hardy and Benedict Cumberbatch and James McAvoy, and those were my peers. We were all doing theater in the uk, we were all working together. But we love period dramas in the UK and that tends to be the thing that will launch an actor into the American consciousness. So whether it be atonement for James McAvoy or it's Pride and Prejudice for Matthew McFadden or Imitation Game for Benedict Cumberbatch, I just knew that wouldn't happen for me unless I planted myself somewhere else. And so we started the process of moving and we did move in 2007. So we've lived here for 19 years now. And it proved to be true. Within about two months of landing in la, this script called Selma landed on my doormat. The film didn't get made for another seven years after that, but at least it validated the fact that, oh, this is the kind of thing that I just knew wouldn't happen in the UK and was possible here. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

So the transition from the UK to America, things started to open up for you career wise, and that was your main motivation for moving over here. How was it like culturally for you to come over here from the uk?

[David Oyelowo]

Oh, my goodness. The tricky thing and the thing that no one really warns you about moving from England, an English speaking country, obviously, to America, another English speaking country, is the sheer amount of cultural differences. Like, my wife and I never had credit cards in the uk, we couldn't do anything without a credit card. When we moved here, it was just like, what's your credit score? What's your credit credit? Credit Credit. You know, we never said that word as often as we did when we first moved here in 07. And so that was something that we were like, we're barely human beings without credit, you know, and things like that. And so bank accounts and all that kind of stuff. The schooling system was so different for our kids. You know, our kids were five and two when we moved. And, you know, my wife actually chose to homeschool our kids and ended up doing it for five years because our kids just couldn't adjust to the American schooling system. And, you know, there was so. And the thing about it is the cultural differences are so slight and small, but huge because they, they are literally the thing that derail you from your child going to school, you being able to open a bank account, you being able to drive, you know, so that was. That took us a minute to adjust to. But there are extraordinary things about moving to this country. You know, literally in the uk the attitude is can don't as opposed to can do. And so that was life giving. You know, I love warm weather and I had lived pretty much all of my life, most of my life in the UK and never made peace with it. And suddenly here we were living in la and every day it felt like summer, which it basically was at that time. The weather's actually changed in la, by the way. These rains we have that are so intense and then the heat, which is like unbearable. You know, it was a bit, you know, even before, but that's a whole other thing. But the really tricky thing was we moved in 07 and then we had the economic crash of 08 and the writers strike of 08 and oh my gosh, I think if we had made the move after, well, I don't think we would have made the move. It was so tough. My wife, we had two kids and she was pregnant with our third and I didn't work for 14 months and that was rough.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow.

[David Oyelowo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

How did you guys get by? Like, how does that work?

[David Oyelowo]

Good question. It didn't. It was like, you know, we were in this headspace of did we make the right choice? Like, what are we? It's just. But the good thing, I guess, is that it was everyone, everyone was in the middle of this crash. Everyone in the industry was dealing with that circumstance. It was affecting not just America, but the UK as well, of how interlinked those industries are. And yeah, you know, we basically ran out of money. I remember being stood next to the kitchen counter with my wife and we were down to $3 in my wallet, like, literally $3. And the reason I remember is I gave her $2, and I held on to one and I went, this is us. You know, we couldn't go to an ATM because that would have just barked at us because there was nothing in there. But I will say I remember us sort of sitting up in bed, full of all the anxiety, but then just having this feeling of, well, at least we have each other, you know? And I sort of felt rich again, because not everyone even has that. And I'm going to tell you a story I don't think I've told anyone under these kind of circumstances. Also. What happened? Do you know the actress Kate Mara? Bernie Chance?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[David Oyelowo]

So Kate Mara was at the time dating a wonderful actor called Charlie Cox, who now plays Daredevil on the TV show. And they had become really good friends of ours. And we were in the middle of this time where we just had no money. And we invited them over for lunch. And we clearly had given them the most hellaciously basic of meals because it's all we could afford.

[Katherine Law]

Seriously.

[Chelsea Handler]

I was just about to say, what are you doing inviting people for lunch?

[David Oyelowo]

What were we thinking? I think we were sort of trying to pretend that our circumstances weren't our circumstances. But the next day, without us having expressed anything of our financial situation, they turned up at the door with a $400 Trader Joe's voucher and just handed it to my wife and I and said, just something we wanted to do for you guys. And I could cry thinking about it now, because it was just. It was. We ran to Trader Joe's after we got that voucher, and that's how bad it was. And at the time, I had done a film with George Luca, a film called Red Tails that he had produced and was in stock in for a long time. I was on the precipice of what I thought was the Hollywood dream. And then this crash happened, and it was just like such a weird confluence of things. We were in la, in Hollywood. I'd just done this film with Cuba Gooding Jr. And Terrence Howard, and George Lucas was producing it, and my wife was pregnant with Arthur. And it was just like, what is happening? But, you know, between falling even deeper in love with my wife because it's all we had, and then having friends like that who showed up like that, you kind of go, oh, I think we're gonna be okay. And we were.

[Chelsea Handler]

That must have been some lunch that you prepared them, by the way.

[David Oyelowo]

I know how bad to come over the next day.

[Chelsea Handler]

With a $400 gift certificate. But they must have been like, listen, we don't know what's going on with you people, but that is not it. Wow.

[David Oyelowo]

Oh, I know how bad. I can't even begin to. I think he may have just been like pasta with butter or something like.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's a really sweet story, though. I want to ask you one more question about. I know that John Lewis, our former congressman, who's now deceased, but one of the all time heroes of, of our country, was on the set one day for Selma when you were playing MLK Jr so can you talk to us about that? What was that experience like? Have you ever seen the video of him dancing? You know? Yes, I watch that video like once a month whenever I need a pick me up.

[David Oyelowo]

Yeah, yeah. If you, if you want a dose of joy, you just watch that, you

[Chelsea Handler]

know, what is the song he's. He's dancing to? What song is it?

[Katherine Law]

Happy?

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yes, happy.

[David Oyelowo]

That's right.

[Chelsea Handler]

And he's got. He has got some serious fucking moves.

[David Oyelowo]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Tell us what it was like meeting him and having him on set watching you do that.

[David Oyelowo]

Surreal.

[Katherine Law]

Terrifying.

[David Oyelowo]

Completely surreal. And yes, yes, Katherine, terrifying. Because look, you know, in playing Dr. King, I had interviewed Andrew Young. I had interviewed his kids, Dr. King's kids. I had interviewed several of these giants of the movement. I hadn't yet met John Lewis, and John Lewis was featured heavily in our. I was being played by Stefan James. Of course. He's a busy guy. I couldn't get to him in my buildup to playing the role. And I, as you had alluded to Chelsea, I stayed in character. I just felt that's what I had to do for that role. We were shooting in Atlanta. We were often surrounded by people who had heard him speak, who had worked with him, who had been in his orbit. I'm obviously English. Walking around with this accent just felt like not the way to elicit confidence or to sort of stay in the pocket, so to speak. So, you know, I was pretty much in that zone all the time. And then I got a knock on my trailer door and an ad said, just to give you a heads up, John Lewis is visiting set today and would like to say hello. And I just felt all the blood kind of just leave my body and just. What. What did that person just say? And then they had literally warned me about a minute and a half before he was at the door. And so I was so in the zone of just staying as Dr. King. I greeted him as the character and within a few minutes of our conversation, he just leaned into me and said, Dr. King, it is so good to see you again. And I could see that he wasn't just being cute. He went somewhere as he was looking me in the eye. And I just thought, how many layers can playing this role continue to afford me? It was just so incredible. But what went on to happen is that day, I was supposed to be giving a speech to 400 people in a church. And he decided to stay for me giving the speech. And I just thought, okay, great to meet you. Thank you for being here. That's a layer of pressure I just don't know that I want. And you will never believe what happened. So I don't know if you know this, Chelsea and Catherine, when you're shooting, if because of the generators and all the electrics used for making a movie, the minute there's a hint of a thunderstorm, you have to shut everything down just in case lightning or thunder hits the generator. And literally, Ava DuVernay, who directed the film, went, okay, everyone going for a take. Roll sound. Everything went dark, literally. And I'm not exaggerating, I, like, have photographs of this thing. Everything went dark. And this thunderstorm just suddenly was over the church we were gonna be shooting in. And by the time the storm had passed, he had had to leave. And I just was like, there is a God and he loves me. I mean,

[Chelsea Handler]

my goodness, you willed that thunderstorm to happen. You're like, get the fuck outta here before I have to shoot this scene.

[David Oyelowo]

No disrespect, leave. Exactly. No disrespect. But this doesn't help me get outta here.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, he's such a legend. He is such a legend. John Lewis. Just the most awesome energy. So just the coolest. Okay, we're gonna take a break. We'll be right back with David Oyelowo.

[Michael Easter]

2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.

[Katherine Law]

We really believed that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are

[Chelsea Handler]

the result of stress.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a Happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

[Michael Easter]

Listen to 2%. That's 2% on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

And we're back. We are getting into the advice portion of this show, David. So I wanna know, you can give me good or bad, if there's any. Yeah, maybe bad. Since you've already shared some good advice that you've gotten from Oprah and others, can you remember some of the worst advice that you've ever gotten?

[David Oyelowo]

My dad gave me terrible advice over the two things that I value most in my life. My dad was my hero, my absolute hero. And. And he endured quite a bit of racism in the UK when he first moved there in the 60s and 70s. So when I met Jess, who's white and who went on to be my wife, and I went to him and talked about the fact that I think this is the person I wanna marry, he was so against it. And I didn't think then it was to do with all of the trauma of what he had faced from other white people. But his advice was, david, one day she's going to wake up and realize you are black. I was like, okay, thank you for that. I think she's aware, and that doesn't help me one bit. What on earth are you talking about? And he just was like, they betray us, they leave us, they hurt us. That's what they're predisposed to do. And. And that was his reality, and I had to defy him on that. That was his advice. And he also didn't get married till he was 40, didn't have me till he was 42. And I can understand it now that I'm a father myself. But Jess and I got engaged when she was 19 and I was 21. And he was just like, are you out of your mind that she's white and she's 19? And, you know, that was advice which I can now understand, having dealt with my own interaction with racism, my own interaction with now being a father who has children who are similar to the age I was. But at the time, I was in complete defiance of that. And then, you know, and then me telling him I wanted to be an actor, you know, the first thing he said, why do you want to go and be a jester? You want to go and be a jester? Okay. That's what you think of actors? Yeah, they are jesters. Promiscuous jesters. It's like, okay, I'm not listening to you on that either.

[Chelsea Handler]

Daddy, did you ever share what he said with Jess, with your wife?

[David Oyelowo]

I didn't have to, because he would say it to her face. I mean, it was so upsetting. Like, he met her. I introduced. Introduced him to her. I said, do you know how many girls are calling David all the time? You think? I was like, daddy? He said, and what do you eat? Salad. Is salad the only thing you're eating? Salad, salad, salad. Why? You need to put some weight. Where's the meat? There's no meat. And I was like, I'm stood right there. Like, daddy, please stop. But that was my parents. They would just say whatever was on their mind all the time.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's pretty cute. Maybe not cute at the time, but after the fact.

[David Oyelowo]

The. The. The other thing. So he completely fell in love with Jess with time and then ended up living with us. And, you know, with time, my wife did become more voluptuous, and she would come in. She would come into the room. Oh, yes. This is wonderful.

[Katherine Law]

Yes.

[David Oyelowo]

Hey, I'm like. Like, Daddy, I'm stood right here. That is highly inappropriate. It's true. Now look at this. Wonderful. I was like, goodness me. So, yeah, no contact.

[Chelsea Handler]

Good stuff. Yeah, I like it. Okay, we have some callers, and we have some. We give advice, David, on this podcast.

[David Oyelowo]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Chelsea Handler]

You're ready. Let's go. Katherine, what do you got?

[Katherine Law]

All right, well, we're gonna start with a caller, so we're, like, jumping into the deep end. Okay, great. And, David, I know you've given dating advice. It seems like it was successful to your children, so, you know, we're gonna jump into some dating advice, so.

[David Oyelowo]

Okay.

[Katherine Law]

Nishat says. Dear Chelsea, my family immigrated to the US almost 40 years ago from a predominantly Muslim country. I was born here a few years later. Overall, I describe my family as being quite liberal and progressive. With time, they've adjusted comfortably into American society. That being said, I'd still describe our upbringing as being more sheltered than our peers. We were allowed to have friends and grew up consuming American pop culture and media, but school was typically first priority, and dating wasn't allowed. I don't want to label my mom and dad as helicopter parents, but I'd say they had a tendency to be more overprotective than necessary due to their hesitation and expectations. I feel like I missed out on optimizing fun and exploration during my formative years. These reflections have now been having an impact on my views about dating and relationships. The irony is that my family would love for me to find a great partner to share my life. With, but my insecurities about my inexperience are getting in the way, and I feel like my upbringing is somewhat to blame. Blame? I'm embarrassed to admit that I've never dated or been in a relationship before. Now, at 34, I feel anxious, frustrated, and scared about navigating this world. I've been on and off a few apps over the past few years, but they simply make me feel bored and disposable, and I find the infinite number of choices overwhelming. There were a few flirtations that I bailed on and never connected with in person, including one guy I matched with three times over the course of four years. I finally struck up the courage to send a message, but alas, he never responded. I've been harboring a crush ever since. I know everyone's complaining about the state of dating in this modern age, but I genuinely feel unfit to tread these waters. How am I supposed to start playing the game when I barely understand the rules?

[Chelsea Handler]

Sincerely, Nishat hi, thank you for calling in. This is our special guest, David Oyelowo.

[Nishat (Caller)]

Hi.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, dating. Dating is difficult. It doesn't matter if you've been doing it for 20 years or if you're just. I would say it's great that you haven't been. Been exposed to too many men. I would say check in your box. That's a bonus.

[David Oyelowo]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

And your desire a is also great. Like, the fact that you're interested and that you've taken steps to make something happen is also positive. Do you have a therapist that you talk to?

[Nishat (Caller)]

No, I do not. I. I considered it, but I haven't really taken the step in that direction now.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think it's important to have a therapist, I think, especially at your age, especially with everything that you're just. I mean, it doesn't matter where you're from or your life experience is. We all need therapists. We all need a sounding board, and we all need to unpack our childhoods in some way. And there's all this, you know, trauma that some of us don't even know about. And whether it's like huge traumas or like little micro traumas throughout your life, it's very important to talk to somebody about what shaped you and how you've come into this world to become the woman that you are and also to just kind of help guide you along. Like, I think as. As long as you're taking little steps in the direction of where you want to go, then that's a positive thing that you're doing. Being on the Dating apps is fine. I know it's frustrating, believe me. Like, I hear it all the time. I'm a woman. I get it. But there are great men out there. There are. There's just. There's a lot of idiots out there. So it kind of makes it look worse than it is. But you have to just be focused, I think, on your intention, which is to be in a loving, happy relationship, I'm assuming.

[Nishat (Caller)]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right.

[Nishat (Caller)]

It's. I mean, I'm hoping that everybody on the app says the same intention, but unfortunately it's. It's the wild west, so you just never really know who's looking for something serious, who's looking for something casual, and who's just kind of there for fun.

[Chelsea Handler]

Absolutely. And that's also. But like, you can't control what somebody. You. All you can do is be as direct as possible. And like, you know, that's one of the things. I just kind of started something on my Instagram. It was kind of an ingest, but it turned into this whole dating thing of setting people up because I was like, where are all the men out here? I know so many incredible women and there.

[Katherine Law]

Where are the men?

[Chelsea Handler]

So I think there's just like, we're in a time in our culture where it's just like, men aren't working as hard to try to meet women or they've forgotten how to connect with women. But there's definitely like, you know, I think, I think for you as a woman, to be intentional, to be, to be upfront, to say, I'm not looking for something casual. I'm looking actually to get to know somebody and, you know, to see with. Without any pressure on it.

[Katherine Law]

Yeah, that's a good way to take the pressure on it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Get into the art of practicing communicating that way and get into the practice of trying to go on dates. You know, use those apps and, and. And use those dates, like, do nice, innocent daytime coffee meet up.

[Nishat (Caller)]

I'm open to those things. Absolutely. Not happening as often as I would have preferred. Right.

[Katherine Law]

Do you have a good group of girlfriends? Nishat?

[Nishat (Caller)]

Do I have a good. That's. That's.

[Katherine Law]

Or a couple? One or two.

[Nishat (Caller)]

I have a couple. I. I don't like seeing it, but I feel like the older I've gotten, the smaller that group has also gotten, and people kind of get preoccupied with, you know, their own changes in their life. They have new priorities, and so we just don't really get to keep in touch the same way we used to.

[Chelsea Handler]

Totally.

[Nishat (Caller)]

It's pretty limited to, like, texting or phone calls. But I do have one or two people I still keep in touch with from school and from college. Yeah.

[Katherine Law]

Yeah, Yeah. I feel like right now what you need is a cheerleader, and whether that's, like, reaching out to girlfriends and getting back in touch with them on a regular basis or a therapist. Therapist. Like someone who can walk through this with you and be cheering you on, because it's not just one step. Right. It's like multiple steps and getting to know someone. And then maybe if things get more serious, it's really important to have somebody in your corner cheering you on.

[Nishat (Caller)]

Yeah. And I. I try to also learn from their experiences because they've also kind of gone, you know, through the whole process. And I've heard horror stories, and so I think. Think that's kind of pushed me away from wanting to engage in the experience. But you can only learn to swim if you get in the water. That's what I keep telling myself. So, you know, it might take a while, but I'm trying to stick through it to see what's. What's the outcome.

[Katherine Law]

Yeah. And you don't have to feel embarrassed. Like, I have multiple friends who were in their 30s before they really started dating, and they're happily settled now. My one friend, I say, like, I'm so glad you didn't make us meet a ton of people. It was, like, the first person she met that was her person, and they're very happy now, now. So it can definitely happen.

[Chelsea Handler]

But also, I just would say. Would say, like, don't give up. And if somebody doesn't respond to you or whatever, that's not your problem. Every no is closer to the yes that you're gonna find. Do you know what I mean? So get rid of. Who cares about that guy? If he didn't respond, great. Who's next? Let's. And get into that practice of going on really casual, innocent, like, coffee dates just to get into the rhythm of it so that it doesn't feel like such a big deal anytime you do it that you're not giving yourself away. It's just kind of like, oh, this is what I do now. A couple a week or once a week or whatever you want to set up, but constantly making efforts in the direction you want to go, which is to be in a relationship. And I think it's wonderful that you have, like, accepted that. A lot of people don't even want to say that. You know, they're like, no, I don't want. It's too scary out There, like, it's good that. What part of the country do you live in?

[Nishat (Caller)]

So I'm in New York City. Yeah, I live just outside of city. In the suburbs. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And then I also think with summer coming up and spring coming up, there's so many things you could sign up for so many like activities that are outdoors in New York City. City where you can meet people that are going to be geared for people who are trying to meet people. You know what I mean? If you look up like, you know, dating activities in New York City, they'll be like, oh, singles, like women and men, men meeting women, like they have all that stuff available. So you're in the best city in the world to do that, to make that happen.

[Nishat (Caller)]

I keep being told that. But I think another issue is I'm, I'm a terrible flirt. I'm terrible as I'm like zero. Don't know how I would even navigate that kind of a scenario. I look forward to those kind of exchanges, but because I, I haven't had any experience, I wonder how, how would I even perform and how would it feel like, you know, so it's, it's like constantly like big, big butterflies in my stomach.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Well, I really, really encourage you to get a therapist and really have somebody in your corner that you can really bounce this stuff off of because she's going to help you. I'm saying a woman, because you should get a woman. And she's going to, she's going to help you navigate this. And I think it's great that you want out there. And that is a big step.

[Nishat (Caller)]

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Katherine Law]

David, do you have thoughts?

[David Oyelowo]

Yeah, I do. You know, everything I'm hearing, which I agree with is how can you be active rather than reactive in a sense, and also intentional, you know, in terms of your upbringing. Some of what I expressed on here today is my own parents perceptions that were being transposed onto me. And I, I could either reject them because I recognize that that's their experience and not mine, or I could internalize them and then be pulled into someone else's prejudices, preconceptions, fears, doubts. And before you know it, you have this sort of generational cycle that is a downward spiral on the basis of information that may not actually even be true anymore. That may have been your experience coming over to this country in the the 60s or 70s or whatever, but the world has changed. I'm a different person. I have different beliefs, values, aspirations, desires. And so I think to actively recognize that you may still be living or reacting to your parents estimations of what your life should be and who you are is one thing. And then to Chelsea's point about therapy, you know, what are the things that you can intentionally do on the basis of the revelation you've had about yourself, then the putting of yourself out there, in a sense, which is terrifying for everyone. Of course. What I would also say is to get rid of any shame tied to the fact that you're in your 30s and you are you and your experience is specific, you know, because of, of how I was raised and my own belief system. From a faith standpoint, I was a virgin when I got married and I got teased mercilessly for that. But it was my truth. And it has proved to be something that is wonderful for me. And there were times where, when I was being teased or mocked for it, that I could have been drawn into someone else's perception of what I should have been doing. And to be honest, for me, I just know that wasn't the path I wanted and the path that was gonna lead to my own specific brand of happiness. And so I agree with Chelsea. I have a lot of friends in their 30s and Fort who have dated a lot and are left with real scars that mean that almost the idea of them finding a partner is harder because it's. That now they're bringing so much baggage to those relationships. And again, not to say that that isn't something that you can also still find love through, but please don't think that you are now somehow damaged goods because of your age or your parental thing, even being shy, you know, there's going to be someone out there. That's the very thing about you that they love. Easier said than done. But what are the intentional things you can do? What. What is a, A team sport or a social situation that you can put yourself in that isn't necessarily tied to dating, but it's going to help with your confidence so that you're going into situations whereby, you know, you've just dealt with some of your social anxiety that isn't in a setting that is about dating, which is just like way too many anxiety induced. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so what is that thing? You know, is it, is it a board game thing? Is it a book club? Is it a. Whatever. You know, get outside of your comfort zone and then get rid of the shame, you know, dispel, you know, the projections of your parents and then. Yeah, and then just keep on, keep on getting, getting on out there. I was just saying to these guys, I'm literally officiating the wedding of my assistant on Saturday. She's in her 40s. Her husband to be is in his 40s. They met on set. He was our art director. And I just saw the most beautiful app, less Cute Convergence, which is now leading to these two guys in their 40s getting married at my house on Saturday.

[Nishat (Caller)]

I love that. It's Atlas.

[David Oyelowo]

Yes. Yes. It can still happen. It can still, still happen.

[Nishat (Caller)]

Right?

[Chelsea Handler]

And also just let letting people know, you know that, that are in your life and in your work life that you're interested in meeting someone there. It's good to keep putting that message out there and letting people, you never know where you're going to be introduced to somebody.

[David Oyelowo]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yep.

[Nishat (Caller)]

True, true. Yeah. So I'm going to try to stay open to those things.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, great. I can't wait for your first boyfriend. Let us know.

[Katherine Law]

Will you follow up with us, Nishat?

[Nishat (Caller)]

Absolutely. Definitely. I. I'll. I'll follow up with you guys. Thank you so much.

[Katherine Law]

All right.

[David Oyelowo]

Nice to meet you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Nice to meet you.

[Nishat (Caller)]

Likewise. Thank you.

[Evelyn (Caller)]

Bye.

[Katherine Law]

That was such great advice.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know. That was great advice, David. I loved everything you said. Now we have you on record giving dating advice. This is awesome.

[David Oyelowo]

Happily, happily.

[Katherine Law]

So Evelyn says. Dear Chelsea, I'm writing because I can't seem to make the move to leave a situation that isn't good for for me. I've been with my current partner for three years and I think about leaving almost every day. An overview. He cheated one year into our relationship with an ex and also slept with his son's mother when we were broken up due to at the aforementioned cheating and lied until it was clear he couldn't lie anymore. I thought I could forgive and move on, but I think about it often and obviously don't feel like I can trust him. He has a terrible relationship with his son's mother, calls her names, argues and fights with her often. And crazy that they slept together, huh? We don't have anything in common. Our conversations are pointless and he has a short fuse. But he's also a great provider. He loves our daughter and great with kids. I'm close with his family, so he has a good side too. That's where I get wrapped up in guilt. But I know that I deserve better. Oh, and he proposed on a trip recently, so guilt is at a max. Even writing this, I'm like, girl, obviously you need to leave. The problem is I'm a mom to our 15 month old daughter. I don't work, so I'm apprehensive to leave. I'm scared he'll be awful to me like he is with his son's mom. I just don't know where to start or how to leave or if I should do. I leave and bite the bullet. Put my daughter in daycare. I have a lot of anxiety about leaving her in daycare and start to rebuild. I know what you're going to say, and my gut is saying the same, but I feel like I'm stuck in quicksand. Please help. I look up to you so much. I dream of one day being able to make moves within my own life that are aligned with my beliefs the way you do. Thank you. Up.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Evelyn.

[Evelyn (Caller)]

Hi.

[David Oyelowo]

Hi.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is our special guest, David. He's here today.

[Katherine Law]

Hi.

[David Oyelowo]

Hi. Hello.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi. I'm really sorry about what you're going through. I can feel the pain in your letter. I understand that you're in a really difficult spot, but I think you obviously know the answer to your question, because you do. And you have a knowing. We all have a knowing within us. Whether you're a man or a woman or anything in between. We all have an instinct and a gut. And the longer you put off listening to that gut, it just feels. Feel like the higher of a price you're going to pay. Do you have any family? Do you have anyone you can go to if you were to move out or to leave that can help you?

[Evelyn (Caller)]

I think I would. Yeah. Like, I think I could make it work.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. Well, that's. That's something. So, like, I think you also something to know is, like, the people in your life that love you, they already know what the situation is, and they're going to be very more helpful than you know. When you reach out and ask for help, people really want to help you that really love you. They do. So I think it's a time for you to think about who those people are in your life and ask for help. You're not going to need it forever, but you're going to need it for the transition and you really have to take care of yourself. And I also just want to say, like, this is about not just you. This is about the health and happiness of your child. So sometimes when we get. We can't defend ourselves like the way that we would for a child, a daughter, a sister, a mother. You have to think of this is her future. So you're doing the most loving thing for the future of her and the future that you have together. There's a whole world out there where you're gonna feel loved and cherished and not in this situation, but it's gonna take a couple. It's gonna take some big moves on your part.

[Evelyn (Caller)]

Right.

[Katherine Law]

David, can you speak to. I know you've talked about listening to your knowing and can you speak a little bit to that and how you experience that?

[David Oyelowo]

Yeah. I mean, firstly, Evelyn, I can see the pain in your eyes. I can see the conflict. I can see that what you're going through is very difficult and just not easy in any way. And as Chelsea has already alluded to, it's your child is part of a component. So I don't want to be glib in relation to that. This is tough stuff. Again, I think you know the answer to your own question, but I think it's worth giving it context, which is that you have tried and tested this person and they are not to be trusted. And so you've already done the thing that is where love emanates from. I personally believe love is sacrifice. And that sacrifice sometimes manifests in, let me meet this person, where they're at. Let me give them the benefit of the doubt. And if they have consistently not met that level of generosity and sacrifice to what they may be able to offer, then at some point the ability to trust them has. Has gone. And that's you having done your part. If it was gossip or hearsay and you didn't know it for a fact, then we would be here saying, well, have the conversation, you know, have couples therapy or whatever. But it feels like that Rubicon has been crossed over, so to speak. And so it's about self love. It's about, how are you going to now love yourself and your child through to the other side of this? Because I've personally witnessed people recently, a friend of mine who stayed and everyone around them are just like, you just know this is not going to be good. It's only going to continue to deteriorate. You're only putting off the inevitable because there's something that is broken, whether it's in the relationship or the individual. And it sounds to me that this person, there is a brokenness in them that means that they are constantly looking for, whether it's self esteem, affirmation, whatever it is, that you are not providing them and cannot provide them. And that is something that you must not beat yourself over, because I'm sure you have feelings of insecurity, feelings of shame, feelings of, why wasn't I enough? Well, you will be enough for someone, but you will only get to that someone once you have cleared this slate. And so, you know, my hope for you is that you do make this step that you know you need to make and that the sooner you make it, the sooner you will get through what will be a period of mourning, a period of pain, a period of maybe even some doubt. But you will come out the other side into something better because hopefully you'll take the experience of that. You'll know what the red flags are, there'll be more self love for yourself because you've made, made an act and a step that is based on loving yourself over your insecurity that makes you stay in a bad situation. And that hopefully will be what will inform your next choices and your next relationship.

[Evelyn (Caller)]

Right?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Katherine Law]

And Evelyn, I just want to encourage you, like, this is big, scary stuff. These are huge changes that you would be making in your life and in your daughter's life. But you are brave enough for this. You are brave even just taking these first steps of like, is this the right choice? Reaching out, that is brave. And I believe that you're brave enough to handle this.

[Evelyn (Caller)]

Thank you. And I think my biggest fear is like losing time with her because right now I'm 100% of the time with her. And if I made this move, it would be working all the time. And then 50, 50 split, and then I think I go back and forth in my mind, is it better for me to hang on now to be with her all the time, or is that just me being selfish?

[Chelsea Handler]

I think the time that you're gonna gain more time with her by making a healthier decision for both of you in the future, like this period that you're about to enter, maybe you won't be spending as much time with her as you want, but in the long run, it will pay off. Like you're going to get. The quality of time is going to be better than the quality of time you have now, because now you're kind of shielding, protecting her in a sense, and you're in this state, but your happiness is going to permeate her life and your peace of mind is going to have a huge impact on your daughter. So we want you to be happy and healthy for the sake of your daughter also, not just for the sake of you. That is hugely important, but it's both of you that you're thinking about. So like, yes, like, this is all gonna be. It will be the right decision down the road. It'll. It won't feel like it when you're going through these difficult things, but you do have the strength and you do have the courage to do it, and you're gonna get. Your relationship with her is gonna show it in spades when you're in a different situation.

[Nishat (Caller)]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

So please keep us posted about what, what happens. Okay. Let us know.

[Evelyn (Caller)]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. Okay.

[Katherine Law]

All right, thanks.

[Chelsea Handler]

Take care. Thank you for.

[Evelyn (Caller)]

Okay, thank you.

[Michael Easter]

2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts and more to to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.

[Katherine Law]

We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are

[Chelsea Handler]

the result of stress.

[Michael Easter (continued)]

Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

[Michael Easter]

Listen to 2%. That's 2% on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow, that was pretty serious. Okay, well, I thank you for your time today, David. You were so wonderful. I look at, listen to you talk all day long.

[David Oyelowo]

Oh, thank you. Well, likewise. I love this conversation. I've. I've listened to your podcast. What I love, love, love about it is the combination of. Of lightness, but also how you just go straight for the guts of something and you know, people you've talked to, people who, you know, like, you are funny people, people who you have this perception of who they are. But whether it's therapy or relationships or religion or sex or, you know, addiction or. It's just. I just love that you get into the guts of it. So this is. I feel honored to have been been on, on the show.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. And I can't wait to come over to your house for lunch.

[David Oyelowo]

Great.

[Chelsea Handler]

David's newest movie is called Newborn and it is out in playing in AMC theaters right now. So go see it. I watched it. It's fucking great. And David, I will see you soon.

[David Oyelowo]

Yes. See you on Thursday at my house.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, I'll be there.

[David Oyelowo]

Bye bye, bye. Thank you so much. Bless you.

[Katherine Law]

If you want advice from Chelsea, write in to dearchelsea podcastmail.com Dear Chelsea is a production of I Heart Media. Follow Chelsea on all socials Chelsea Handler and find Katherine on TikTok. Flashkadabra. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert executive producer Katherine Law. Find full video episodes and minisodes now on Netflix and get tickets to see Chelsea [e-mail].

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

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[Chelsea Handler]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Chelsea Handler]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Michael Easter]

2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and On my podcast 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in

[Michael Easter (continued)]

our strange, modern Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

[Michael Easter]

Listen to 2%. That's 2% on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.