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- [00:00]
Chelsea Handler
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- [00:38]
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- [01:10]
Chelsea Handler
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- [01:44]
Maren Morris
Hi Catherine.
- [01:45]
Chelsea Handler
Greetings from Portugal.
- [01:47]
Catherine
Hi, how are you?
- [01:49]
Maren Morris
Hi, I'm good.
- [01:49]
Chelsea Handler
How are you doing?
- [01:51]
Catherine
I'm doing fantastic. I'm just taking the day off of work today actually after this. So it's up for this.
- [01:57]
Chelsea Handler
I just drove 2 1/2 hours with my cousin, her lover and their daughter who had diarrhea on the side of the road by a tree. We took us about 47 minutes to get all of our luggage in the trunk. My tour European tour officially ended last night. I did my last show in Libsyn Libson Lisbon. I developed a lisp. I had my last show in Lisboa is Lisboa. That's how they say it there. Lisboa in Lisbon. And I was very tipsy on stage last night because we were celebrating all day. We were walking, we'd stop, and we got Moscow Mules, and then we had Sangria. And then by the time we got to the show, things were the reals. The wheels really came off. So it was a perfect way to end my tour. We had the best time and the best audiences in Europe. I'm so appreciative of everybody who came out. It was such a fucking blast. And I've never walked so much in my life.
- [02:52]
Catherine
And did you think that you'd be going on tour with a toddler? I mean, was that.
- [02:56]
Chelsea Handler
No, I did not. She wanted. She had to come on stage last night, too. She always wants to come on stage. And so we told her she came on stage and said, you're a fucking bitch. That she could come on stage, but. So she was practicing backstage, but then she couldn't do it when she got on stage, which is probably for the best.
- [03:10]
Catherine
Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot.
- [03:12]
Chelsea Handler
But she loves to. She loves. She's like. Every night when she goes to sleep, she's like, is there a show tonight? Can I go on stage? She. They joined us, like, halfway through the tour, so, yeah, it was pretty. It was pretty funny. I'm just so glad I don't have children. Do you know what I mean?
- [03:29]
Catherine
Yes. You get, like, little bites, you know.
- [03:31]
Chelsea Handler
Little tastes of times. I mean, the patience that is required. The amount of times you hear the word mommy in one hour, it's like 900 times, mommy, mommy, Mommy, Mommy. I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I can't believe I understand why people lose their fucking shit.
- [03:49]
Catherine
Yeah. And also, like, daddy's there too, so it could be Daddy, Daddy, too. But nope, it's always Mommy. It's always Mommy.
- [03:56]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah, she's. She's even. She's like, her. My. My niece is like a. In a relationship with her father. They're like. They're like a couple. And then Molly comes in and, like, sorts. Every. Molly comes in and just shames everybody about everything. Everyone got sick at some point except for me, luckily. Knock on wood.
- [04:13]
Catherine
Oh, my God.
- [04:13]
Chelsea Handler
That was good. The two of them were very hungover this morning, and I was at the gym like I always am. She's like, wow, you really are an alcoholic. She's like, you can survive anything. I'm like, you just need to shoot up. What I'm shooting up. Okay. And take all these peptides I'm taking, because I Can handle almost anything.
- [04:27]
Catherine
Yes. So do you get to have a little vacation now?
- [04:30]
Chelsea Handler
Yes, now I'm in Portugal. I'm at my friend's 50th birthday weekend. So I'm here for about four or five days and I've never been here before. The all Golf coast. I've been to Portugal a bunch, but never here. So we'll see what happens. I mean, anything is possible, Catherine. Anything.
- [04:45]
Catherine
It's great. You get. You have earned it. It's time for some time off and you get to just chill a little bit.
- [04:49]
Maren Morris
Thank you.
- [04:50]
Chelsea Handler
Thank you, thank you. Okay, so who do we have coming up today?
- [04:53]
Catherine
Well, today we have the lovely Maren Morris, who has a new album called Dreamsicle.
- [04:59]
Chelsea Handler
Yes. I love Maren Morris. And I bumped into her on a television show, so this was perfect timing that we had her on. I like how when she said fuck you to country music and for her to not being accepting or for. Well, there was a bevy of reasons, but it was basically directed at their sexism, misogyny, and, you know, homophobia.
- [05:18]
Catherine
Yeah, no, she is cute, she's smart, she is fun. She knows her mind. She was a great guest.
- [05:25]
Chelsea Handler
So, okay, bring her on. Welcome, Morris, everybody. There she is. Hi, Marin. I'm happy to see you. I'm good. How are you doing?
- [05:35]
Maren Morris
Long time no see.
- [05:36]
Chelsea Handler
Well, we just ran into each other at one of those shows. I don't want to say the wrong one, though, so I'm scared. Is it Access Hollywood or is it tonight? Tonight, Access Hollywood. I mean, I should know because I know the girls there as whenever I roam through there. So I don't want to insult them by saying the wrong show. So if I do whatever, it's on me, Maren. It's all on me.
- [05:58]
Maren Morris
You know what? It was fun.
- [05:59]
Chelsea Handler
I was so happy to see you because I met you years and years ago, as we discussed when Marin was opening for Keith Urban and I was doing my Netflix show. So that was probably like almost 10 years ago. I interviewed you on a tour bus.
- [06:13]
Maren Morris
Yeah.
- [06:14]
Chelsea Handler
And you were a little baby and you didn't have a baby yet. And now you have a baby and you're not a baby anymore. But what I really have respected about you a is how outspoken you are. It really is amazing to see when you said basically fuck you to country music. And I know you weren't saying fuck you to country music, but you were saying fuck you to really the industry of country music.
- [06:38]
Mike
Yeah.
- [06:38]
Maren Morris
I think mostly just like the pillars of establishment where it's these pockets of like, MAGA infiltration since 2016, which is truly, like, when I guess we met, it's just taken a nosedive. And it's not everyone in that world. Like, there's tons of people. I live in Nashville, so, I mean, I haven't, like, become an expat of every facet of this. I love living here, but, yeah, I mean, it's certainly just tough to sort of. Of want to make music you love and then deliver it to a space that feels safe and inclusive and, you know, celebratory. So I think I just had to sort of go back to the drawing board and figure out, like, what. What I truly wanted to do.
- [07:25]
Chelsea Handler
And how did you come to that decision? Was that just your own? Like, did you have to discuss this with anybody in your life before you were public about it? Or is this something that you just felt so passionately about that you had to say something?
- [07:38]
Maren Morris
I mean, I think it was becoming more galvanized as, you know, the pandemic was stretching on, and we were just trying to figure out how to tour again in a safe way. And I think it just really, like, opened up a lot of blind spots of, like, people I worked with and just the community here. And most of it is so, like, supportive and loving. But I did have to kind of figure out, like, what do I want to do going forward musically, which, you know, I think I've always been a blurred genre line kind of artist because I'm just more about, like, the songwriting element and, like, it comes out, how it comes out. But, yeah, I think just making some, like, intentional decisions on where I, like, send this music to. And, you know, the thing is, is, like, I'm always going to love country music. It's so tied into my DNA of how I listen to music, how I write music. It's all through this, like, portal of, like, the Nashville way of writing songs, co writing, lyrical structure, the, like, ABAB of it all. That's. I can't, like. I don't want to get rid of that part of myself. I love country music's honesty and, like, telling real people's stories. But I always go back to this interview in, like, the late 80s of the highwayman. So it's like Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Christofferson, Waylon, and they're all talking about, like, funding public education over, you know, excessive military spending and, you know, just giving back to the poor and the elderly, like, these icons, these outlaws, which a lot of these people will wear on a T shirt, like, they don't remember what These dudes were fucking talking about from day one. And that's country music to me, which is like fighting for the oppressed and writing about those stories.
- [09:37]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah, I feel like that's analogous to, like how I feel about America, you know what I mean? Like, the integrity with which it was founded or with the ideals of what it was always meant to become is probably. You can say the same about country music. Like, nobody is nothing is founded on hate and bigotry and exclusivity. Things are founded on love and spreading joy and messaging and inclusivity. And yet somehow we get mired, you know, like, like industries can get mired in this way of thinking and then they can become dominated by that. And like, that's how it feels like in our country. Even though I don't feel like we're being dominated by hate, there's enough out there that it feels that way. I always want to err on the side of love and believe that there are more good than there are bad people. So I'm just gonna choose to continue to think that way for the time being.
- [10:25]
Maren Morris
Yeah, I mean, I think I will always have this like, intrinsic hope and ambition that. I mean, humankind is truly just wanting to feel listened to and connected to one another, I think. Yeah. When other like ulterior motives get cropped in, it's just. I mean, music and the arts are a mirror of society. And so when I saw what was going on within the establishment of like mainstream country music, not so much like outlaw or Americana. It was like a lot of these rich guys cosplaying as cowboys with like six thousand dollar YSL boots that have never touched dirt. It's like, what's the saying where it's like, those boys are all hat and no cattle. That's like, that's kind of what was happening. And I mean, like, it's just interesting because I feel like at the end of the day, we're all just trying to like live and let live. And I think there's a nationalistic element to America and parts of country music where it's like, this is ours, not theirs. And that's just not a vibe I want to be a part of. I want to be like inclusive. And that only makes for better music also when you invite inclusivity and diversity into it. Because some of my favorite collaborations over the decades have been those out of left field duets. Like when Willie and Ray Charles did their collab together, it was just like so refreshing and it just opened up for better music to come in and Rush in. And so I think the same with like love. It's like you have to scare yourself and be uncomfortable and hear someone else's point of view or walk of life in order to like expand as a human. And you know, writing is just like my extension of that. But yeah, anyways, this is getting very, very existential.
- [12:25]
Chelsea Handler
Well, but it's. But who gives a shit? I mean that is beautiful. Like we all want to grow in love and expand, but some people, it's like the people that are limited and the people that are closed off are not thinking that way. They're thinking about. It's a narrow way of thinking. And when you go through enough difficult stuff and you're a smart person, you eventually understand and maybe not eventually, maybe right away, the benefits of expansion and the benefits of growing and open mindedness and actually going towards something that you think you might fear and learning from it. You have a huge new album called Dreamsicle. She's going on tour, everybody. She's going to the US, Europe, UK, everywhere. Tickets are available@marin morris.com the tour begins July 12th. So I've listened to part of this in the, in the gym this morning. It's really beautiful. It's very soulful. I mean it's. I don't even know how I would describe it in one word because it's. There's a lot of different stuff in there. But I'm really just blown away at a. And I think this is demonstrative of what so many women experience. You came out of a marriage, you came out of, you know, quote unquote country music. And you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell. Can you talk a little bit about that? You also had a baby, so I mean, that'll do it.
- [13:39]
Maren Morris
Yeah, I think just literally everything that could change in your life happened in like five years for me. And you know, it was a slow burn of events like unfolding and I, I think I was just hoping and waiting that someone would reach into my life and tell me how to fix everything. And when you realize on some of those like more isolated nights of just like not being able to sleep and because you just. Your body is in fight or flight almost, I think I just had to buck up and be like, no, it's you. Like you're the one that has to make that decision and figure out like where you go from here, it's not going to be any else. Like, I mean, I think you go into this like inner child mode of like, how do I get out of this, like, who can help me? Like, my mom or my dad? But I think, yeah, I just. I realized I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace, I think, from 2020 on. And yes, you could. You could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself, not being able to work in that moment. There were a lot of, like, identity crises going on. But I realized, like, I can't look back and slow down for people anymore. I want to set my own pace. And I will sacrifice my comfort and, like, loneliness or feeling not lonely to move at the pace that I have worked really hard to move at. And I think it's not like a fun decision. It's not a fun aftermath or fallout of a decision like that. But I think now that I'm a little bit more on the other side of it. I do feel like no part of me ever wakes up at three in the morning and is like, I've made a huge mistake. Like, I feel like I sleep better because my body can finally relax and knows that it made the tough but right decision. It's hard to know what day occurred that it all started to shift, but maybe circumstantially, it doesn't to me, feel like, oh, let's throw the baby out with the bathwater, like, and change everything about my life. It just happened organically to have, you know, all occur at once. But, yeah, personal life, professional, all the shit was just like a tornado. And I was like, I swear to God, if I can, like, white knuckle myself through this and survive, this is probably the hardest thing. Like, I'll endure and I'll be okay if I get through this part.
- [16:15]
Chelsea Handler
I think it's so interesting that you say that because it's so true. Like, I know through some of my difficult moments in life, you are kind of waiting for someone. Like, whether it's your agent or your manager or your sister or your father, you're waiting for somebody to bail you out, to come and say, I'll take care of you. And, like, I've had so many. When I was younger, I had so many of those, like, kind of tantrum y moments, like, somebody needs to fix this. Somebody needs to fix this. And it's like, there's only so much anybody else can do about you and your state of mind, which is the first ingredient you need is to have clarity and to have focus in order to lift yourself out of anything.
- [16:57]
Maren Morris
Yeah, I think I was just maintaining a level of stress and thinking that because I'm used to this level of stress. It's comfortable. And the alternative to that is so in the dark that it's frightening. And now that I've removed that sort of perpetual level of holding the fucking plates up and spinning them, no matter the cost to myself and my mental health, now that I've removed that, I just see how much I was carrying. And that was so unnecessary and so unfair to me. So, yeah, I think, like, the whole rip the band aid off thing is easier said than done. But I do think even if you're operating at a level of, like, just okay or good ish, you don't know what great is because you've never allowed yourself the space to experience great. And I feel like now I can. And I'm like, you have to be, like, really okay with your own company. And I am. I think that was always, like, the case was, you know, since I was a kid, I can internalize and go in here, and that's probably why I'm a songwriter. But, yeah, it's just, yeah. Extremely daunting to make those choices. But, you know, I just turned 35, and I do feel like I'm glad I didn't wait any longer. It just would have been such a waste to myself.
- [18:28]
Chelsea Handler
Absolutely. And I think there are so many of the people that listen to this podcast are always calling in about that very question, like, how do you take a leap? How do you move in the right direction? Like, what is the first step? And I always think it's just take a step in that direction, you know, and then the second one will follow. But you have to intentionally be like, this is the first thing I'm going to do to change my life and to head in a direction that I'm more comfortable with and passionate about.
- [18:55]
Maren Morris
Yeah. And you. More people should talk about, like, even the little baby step in the correct direction or whatever is nauseating. It is. You are fighting every safety inside your body to make those choices, whether it's to leave a job or a relationship or sever ties with a friend or a family member. Those decisions, at least for me, because I just feel so much like, empathy and I want. I don't. I never want to let people down. People pleaser. It feels like you're gonna vomit, like, every time you even take the tiniest step to someone else. Like, it's huge to your brain and your. Your functioning.
- [19:36]
Chelsea Handler
How did you deal with any of the backlash you got from the country. Country music industry after you came out? Publicly?
- [19:44]
Maren Morris
Came out.
- [19:45]
Chelsea Handler
No, like, against them. I came out. Oh, got it.
- [19:47]
Maren Morris
Well, I was like that, too.
- [19:48]
Chelsea Handler
Well, that. Right, right, of course, that too. But about that. About we're all a little gay. Yeah, exactly. So. And if we're not gay yet, you will be. Okay. By the end of this. By the end of this administration, you'll all be gay.
- [20:02]
Maren Morris
Yeah. Just date one more man, and I promise you, you'll be gay. Totally.
- [20:08]
Chelsea Handler
Oh, somebody tried to. I was coming to New York. I'm in New York right now, and somebody's like, I have this guy I want you to set you up with. I'm like, I can't even think about men right now, okay? Just get away from me. I have no interest in a man right now. I have other things to think about. And, like, when I get to Europe, I'll be in a different zone.
- [20:26]
Maren Morris
Yeah, yeah, maybe it's better. You'll fare better over there. But I mean. I mean, there's. There's backlash with, like, anything that you do that's not normal. So I think I also, like, remember very clearly the chicks backlash of, like, the 2003 Bush era Iraq war stuff. So, like, that's like my. My touchstone of how an industry can blackball you or snuff you out or attempt to. And I think, you know, it's slightly better now because of social media and more people can be, like, exposed to what you're saying and have the context of what you're saying and. And just. Yeah, but I was kind of surprised at, like, how many people reached out to me in support, privately or publicly. In support and just being, like, the courage that it would take to. To. To do this or just change up your plans this way. And I wasn't really doing it in the hopes that these people would think that I'm like Joan of Arc or some bullshit. I was just like, I'm just attempting to, like, be happy. And I'm gonna have to make some major changes for that to be a reality.
- [21:39]
Chelsea Handler
To be honest. Being honest. I mean, you didn't have to say that publicly. You could have said that privately. I think there's a real power. I mean, anytime someone says something like that and is loud about that in a righteous way, you are paving the way for so many other people that you will never even know about, you know, and not to mention all of the gay country artists that we've learned about since making that announcement. So, like, kudos to you for doing that. That takes a lot of balls and a lot of guts because I'm sure there was a part of you that was scared or A fraction of you that was like, oh, my God, what's the backlash gonna be like? And I'm all for that, because you're helping so many people that you'll never even meet.
- [22:16]
Maren Morris
Oh, well, thank you. I mean, I think I've always been a loudmouth, and I think it's just from kind of growing up in Texas, in this very red state. You know, lots of conservative family and, you know, being so mentally online for, like, post 9 11, the chick stuff, things that were happening within the south and in country music on a public level with the war. I mean, the age of millennial that I am is like, that's when people really started paying attention, because we had to. It was on our TVs. And I think it just instilled in me this, like, kind of rebellious spirit of, like, where how do I build community in a place which is so red? And, like, even back then, it felt very quaint. Like, people post Trump, it's a little bit different, but I think even back then it didn't feel quite so adversarial. But it's just grown as I've grown my audience. And I think also, like, I have so many women that work for me and with me and people of color, people in the queer community. So, like, that's my backstage and on stage, and then I'm looking at my crowd, and it's like, each album, each, like, year even, it's diversifying. And I remember the first time I ever played, like, New York City city, it was like the Bowery, I think, and I just. I had never had, like, gay fans. And so seeing on my first, like, ep and we were in, like, the biggest city, so you're like, okay, this is what, you know, the city crowd's gonna look like. And I was just obsessed, and I just wanted more of that. I wanted people to come to my show and feel like they were safe to do so, and they would make friends at my shows in the crowd. And I've seen this happen, like, over the last, like, nine years. Yeah. So I think part and parcel of building that is letting people know where you stand on almost everything. Like, I. I think there are some things that I don't blame or shame my peers for not speaking up on because, you know, it's fucking hard doing this. But I think in the long run, and I've lost fans along the way, and that's gonna happen is you have, like, a longer career, you're gonna lose people, like, the more that you exist and aren't just, like, Cookie cutter. And you're a. You're a fully formed human being. I think you're gonna lose people, and that's okay. I think that's healthy. But you're gonna, like, remain with the people that have been there from the jump that always understood you, and you understand them and then like, attract the. The people that you want over time.
- [25:02]
Chelsea Handler
Do you feel, at 35 years old, this is a weird question. It's not a weird question, but it's direct. Do you feel like a woman?
- [25:08]
Maren Morris
Yeah, I do now. I thought you were going to say, like, do you feel old? Because I do most days, but I. Yeah, I do because I think I started doing this so young. I think we talked about this the last time we spoke, you know, in an interview format. It was like, I've been touring since I was 12, so.
- [25:29]
Chelsea Handler
And you love Tori. You love Tori. She loves it. She loves it. She loves being on the road.
- [25:34]
Maren Morris
I just love the. I love the show. Like, the energy I get from that, it just feels like a healthy version of like the churches I grew up in. And I think that connection to an energy like that is just. It's addictive. Yes. But it's also, like extremely therapeutic. And so, yes, I love the road, but. Yeah, I'm 35 now. I have a five year old. I've been divorced now. Yeah, I feel like a woman. What are the boxes? I'm ticking. I love living alone.
- [26:10]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah.
- [26:10]
Maren Morris
Like, love having my space is. That's very sacred, I think, just like not sharing a closet with someone or bathroom counter. I can have all my shit everywhere. Yeah. I mean, that feels very womanly to me. It's just like the liberation of home, like space in your house.
- [26:30]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah. It's so nice to be alone, isn't it? It's so nice to have your own space and be alone anytime I have a boyfriend or Cher or we go on vacation together. Because I won't live with anyone again. I hope I never do until I'm in a facility. And then I'll live with my. And then I'll live with my boyfriend, who will be 20 years younger, taking care of me for a fee. My mail nurse said I'm totally happy to pay as a transaction. But I didn't start feeling. And I think, I guess motherhood also plays a very strong component because I think once you have a baby, there is a sense of womanhood that comes on. But I didn't start to feel like a real woman until I was in my 40s. I always felt like this little Girl energy, like, you know, Punky Brewster esque. Like, oh, you know, I'm still not really responsible. I have all of these things, and I have all these people that help me do all these things, but even though I'm running the whole thing, I don't feel like a woman. And so I think it's interesting to find out at what ages women do start to feel that way.
- [27:27]
Maren Morris
Yeah, I mean, I totally get what you're saying, because I do still have this, like, zest and like, Energizer Bunny esqueness to me, but. Or maybe on the sort of negative space of. That is like, again, the people pleasing thing or just like the performer in me.
- [27:46]
Chelsea Handler
Right.
- [27:46]
Maren Morris
In every element of my life. Like, it's exhausting. But I. It's just so hard to break that. That pattern of myself. And like, even in relationships, like romantic relationships, feeling like they need the best version of me, like, especially off the bat, like, no flaws, no downsides, like, everything's peachy. And then you're like, oh, my God, like, they're gonna ruin it anyways. So just show them all your cards. Explore healthy detachment. But I. Yeah, I. I mean, I feel like a woman, but also, like, I bet when I turn 40 in a couple years, I'll be like, that one was an idiot. Like the 35 version. So, no, I'll be. I'll be proud at any milestone. But I do think, like, there is something. Yeah. With motherhood, but also just like anything, like divorce, where it's a failure of the promise and the plan that was made initially, but it's. It's also like, a success. And I don't want to, like, sugarcoat it. Like, it's not fun to go through this and like, also in a public way, have, like, friends and family that you haven't spoken to in years, like, reaching out to you about something in TMZ that feels so private, but, like, shit happens. It's part of the job. I just think I've earned my stripes through that.
- [29:10]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah. And you can also divorce in a very successful way. So it is a success by many standards and by many measures without referring, you know, to the end of a marriage that in and of itself can be in a success when it's not a healthy marriage. So, yeah, our whole language around all of it should just be flipped and like, flip it and reverse it.
- [29:28]
Maren Morris
That's so true. I think also because we're over a year out now, like my ex and I, and we obviously have our son to co parent. Like, we get along now and have moved past a lot of it. But we're neighbors and I'm just so fortunate that we, like, have put our son above each other's shit and, like, can truly. And it's better for the two of us if we're getting along obviously as well as, like, co parenting our son. But yeah, I mean, I'm lucky that, you know, we love each other so much still and we have, like, the highest respect. But also there is that, like, devastation that, like, two people that love each other that much, like, can't make it work in the real world. It's always going to be multifaceted. But I think ultimately, like, we both knew it was probably going to be better this way, which is a success.
- [30:19]
Chelsea Handler
Totally. Absolutely. On that note, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Maren Morris. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Men today face immense pressure to perform, to provide, and to keep it all together. So it is no wonder that 6 million men in the US suffer from depression every year. And it is often undiagnosed it is okay to struggle. Real strength comes from opening up about what you're caring and doing something about it so you can be at your best for yourself and everyone in your life. Remember, therapy isn't just for you. It's for all the people that you love. And if you're a man and you're feeling the weight of the world, talk to someone. As you know, I think therapy is incredibly important. Whether you're working through something or just dealing with everyday stresses or you need an outsider's opinion. That's where BetterHelp comes in. With over 35,000 therapists, it is convenient. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. You can switch therapists at any time if you don't like them. And as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com DearChelsea that's better. H E L P.com DearChelsea and here.
- [31:35]
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- [31:42]
Chelsea Handler
It could crash.
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- [32:06]
Katherine Townsend
Years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders.
- [32:20]
Chelsea Handler
I was calling about the murder of my husband.
- [32:23]
Mike
It's a cold case.
- [32:24]
Chelsea Handler
They've never found her, and it haunts.
- [32:26]
Mike
Me to this day.
- [32:27]
Catherine
The murderer is still out there.
- [32:29]
Katherine Townsend
Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking.
- [32:38]
Chelsea Handler
Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for.
- [32:50]
Katherine Townsend
If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Helen Gone murder line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Helen Gone Murderline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:09]
Chelsea Handler
And we're back with Maren Morris, who has a new album called Dreams to Call. And then she's touring all over, so go to marinmoris.com to get tickets. Okay, we have some callers. Marin, are you ready? Catherine, are you ready?
- [33:20]
Catherine
Yes. All right, well, this first one is just an email, but Jess says, dear Chelsea, I've been friends with this girl, let's call her Molly, for 4ish years now. We met through mutual friends while I was in grad school and our partners get along very well too. We've stayed in touch a lot with biannual trips to see each other after I moved out of the town where we met. Fast forward to two years ago. She's getting married and wants to do a big bachelorette trip out of state. I took it upon myself to essentially plan the entire thing. She was relieved to have the help. The trip went very well, followed by travel to their wedding later that year. All that to say I spent a lot of time, money and energy on her wedding. It was a big weekend for me, too. The day after her wedding, my fiance popped the question. He planned a little trip and it was just the two of us. He did get permission from the groom in advance when I Got engaged. Molly was happy for me, but did not express any explicit interest in the details of my wedding planning. The next time I saw her was on a friend's trip six months later. She did not ask to see my ring, nor did she ask any details about my engagement. Which is crazy to me if I care about someone. I'm curious about a big moment like that. She, in fact, expressed some annoyance at the timing of the engagement, possibly taking away from the quote, unquote specialness of her weekend. About a week after that trip, she said she could not arrive at my wedding a day early for a bachelorette celebration as she couldn't get the time off work. Then today I receive a text with her essentially saying they might not make it to the wedding due to finances. I'm frustrated and confused. She has a great job as a lawyer, so it's not really adding up. Without a firm rsvp, how do I know whether I should plan the tables and a meal for her and her husband?
- [34:56]
Mike
And.
- [34:56]
Catherine
And it's a lot of money to waste. If they don't end up coming, should I address it with her or not even bother? Sincerely, Jess.
- [35:03]
Chelsea Handler
Wait, so the proposal took place right, the day after the wedding day after.
- [35:07]
Catherine
The wedding, but like in a totally different place. Like, it wasn't like at the post wedding brunch sort of thing. It was far away.
- [35:13]
Chelsea Handler
Oh, okay.
- [35:14]
Catherine
And he cleared it with the groom, which I don't think he should have.
- [35:16]
Chelsea Handler
Had to do, but why did he. Yeah, that was the first mistake, clearing it with the groom. I thought it was on the. Like on the grounds, like the brunch.
- [35:23]
Catherine
After I clarified that with her and she was like, no, no, no. It was like, like hours away.
- [35:27]
Chelsea Handler
And just. I mean, you could ignore it, but I would go at it directly head on and just send her an email going, it's clear that you're. Clear that you're annoyed. You've showed that you've been annoyed with me for getting engaged after your wedding. I did not plan this proposal. My husband did. Okay, so, A, these are the facts. B, I went above and beyond for your wedding as I would do. Again, like, you know, you say all of this with as much gentleness and love as you can. Cause you're talking to somebody who's basically having a little bit of a tantrum. And I would do it again. I was happy to be there. I was happy to throw your bachelorette weekend or whatever she threw for her. Her shower, however she wants to call it, or whatever it was.
- [36:09]
Catherine
Yeah, bachelorette, yeah. You got it right.
- [36:10]
Chelsea Handler
And I was there. I was happy for you. It's really disheartening to see you being lawfully about my wedding when you know that the costs that go into a wedding, you understand when somebody isn't gonna be there. The fact that you're not coming in for my bachelorette weekend after I threw you one hurts. The fact that you're not sure if you can come to my wedding hurts again. I did not propose to my husband. He proposed to me. It wasn't at your wedding. It was after your wedding. Like, these are things that are not gonna matter in six months. I would just be very direct so that you can get, you know, really just call her on her shit and get a direct response so that you don't have to worry about it. Just let me know either way if you can't come to the wedding. Okay? That's disappointing to you, but please let me know so I can save the money. You know? And I really hope one day you can get past this, because I find this to be very silly. We were all there for your wedding. We were all present. And now I feel like I'm being punished for being proposed to.
- [37:04]
Catherine
That's a good line.
- [37:04]
Maren Morris
Yeah, that's how it feels.
- [37:06]
Chelsea Handler
What do you think, Maren?
- [37:07]
Maren Morris
It's just so weird that all this happened. Planned, her whole bachelorette showed up and, like, celebrated her, and then they didn't see each other for six months. That feels weird, too.
- [37:18]
Catherine
Well, because they don't live in the same town.
- [37:20]
Maren Morris
Oh, got it. Got it.
- [37:21]
Catherine
Yeah. They live a little bit farther apart.
- [37:22]
Maren Morris
Yeah. I mean, Chelsea's right, I think, just approaching it directly, Even though it's gonna suck to hit send, because it's like, oh, God. Like, I'm really coming at her a little bit assertively. But it does cost money when people no show on a wedding. And the table setting and, like, the food and drink, and it's like, just out of courtesy, even that alone, even if she hadn't planned the bachelorette, it's like, do you RSVP No.
- [37:47]
Catherine
Right?
- [37:47]
Maren Morris
And whatever. I. I. But yeah, I think just, like, be direct, and she might think that you're, like, attacking her, but I don't think. I don't think any of us do. So just clear your mind.
- [38:00]
Chelsea Handler
No. And say it with love. Start it with, like, hey, this is coming from love. I. I definitely feel some tension between us. And this is what I'm deducing. You know, you can say it as softly as you want to. I'm saying it Directly, but you can actually make it much softer. But why not? If she's not gonna be your friend, find out now. And if she's ever gonna get caught, people need to be called out on their silly behavior. She's acting like a child. If she's really upset about that, you know, which she probably won't, she may not admit. She may pretend it's about something else. You know what I mean? Cause it is embarrassing to admit you're upset about something. So what's the word I'm thinking of? Trifle. No. Is that a truffle?
- [38:38]
Catherine
Trifling silly.
- [38:39]
Chelsea Handler
Trifling silly. Stupid. Truffles. Truffles. I don't know. Whatever.
- [38:43]
Catherine
I feel like. Also, if she still is waffling after you directly, ask her like, hey, I need an rsvp. And she's like, well, we'd like. I think I would say, like, a no is okay. We'd love to have you there, but if you really can't, please just let me know. And, like, we'll assume that you're not gonna come. Let's just plan on YouTube.
- [39:00]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah, you could do it. That and just like. Yeah, you could also frame it only like that. Like, listen, it's obvious that you have some issue with me and not even get into the details and say it's. Obviously there's some issue here. I'm assuming you're upset about the proposal date, but whether that's really not in my control, that I didn't have any control over that, and you're waffling back and forth about even coming to my wedding. While that's really hurtful, I think what you're trying to say to me is you're not coming. You know, you could do it that way and, like, make it more of a closed door thing.
- [39:28]
Catherine
And you can even blame it on, like, the wedding planner. Like, the wedding planner needs a firm RSVP one way or the other. So, like, let me know by extra next date, especially if it's after the actual RSVP date. Well, our next caller is Mike. He says, dear Chelsea, I followed Chelsea from back in the Gray Goose days to Belvedere. I really respect your point of view on things, and you being a girl's girl is pretty cool. I'm a trans man, which I'm not usually comfortable saying or even typing out loud. I've always identified as a straight guy. I'm 44, and back in my day, it was all about being stealth. The world is different these days. I've been with my wife for 18 years married together for 25. We have an 8 year old, and now the two of us are in the process of a divorce. She's been running on emotions, making it legally hard for me financially too, and adding extra stress with our son. I never would have thought we'd be here. I took my vows seriously, thinking I was protecting my son and me. I have an attorney, but I'm scared shitless to see what's to come. Do you have anything to offer to help me maintain focus to get through this with my son yet Positive enough to. To not let all this negativity affect my wellbeing? I see it taking over, but I'm getting through. Best wishes, Mike.
- [40:34]
Chelsea Handler
Hi, Mike.
- [40:36]
Mike
Hey, how you doing, Kelsey?
- [40:37]
Chelsea Handler
Hi. This is our special guest, Maren Morris, who joins us today. How. How are you doing?
- [40:43]
Mike
I'm doing. I'm happy to be here and, you know, looking forward to hear what, you know, what you have to offer. I'm sorry, I'm already tearing up. Thanks for coming.
- [40:52]
Chelsea Handler
That's okay. No, no, no. So you're. You're. It's an acrimonious divorce, I take it?
- [40:59]
Mike
Yeah, I kind of like neither one of us really did anything, you know, so to speak, that. That really was like, oh, my God, you know, you cheated or anything like that. That really broke us. I think we've been together since we were young, and we didn't really have proper guidance, and we went through a lot. You know, like, there was a lot of death, guilt, a lot of things that I don't think I appropriately dealt with or neither did she. And I think we were both a little emotionally irresponsible as well as financially, and I. I think it kind of caught up to us and was a lot of stuff we never dealt with coming to a head. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, this is where we are. And it's just like I don't even know what to do or. Or how to handle it. I realize I'm very upset and. And how things are proceeding, but I'm trying not to get angry. I've related to you for many years. Like, you've, like, helped me through a lot of this stuff that I went through. Just like your show, fighting you was kind of just awesome. Like, you know, I would just kind of veg out and watch it and. And, you know, it was a distraction from life. And at that time, it was just like a long time ago at this point, really, like work stuff, you know, just regular life. And then, like, I started realizing, like, I started, like, not appreciating the little things. And I, I think a lot of it just came to a head and when I was ready to deal with it, she wasn't. And now I don't know who she's become, you know, it's scary.
- [42:30]
Chelsea Handler
Have you been able to have a conversation with her? Are you able to have a conversation with her about how you're feeling and about moving forward in like a loving way for the benefit of your son and accepting that the relationship is over, but also understanding that there can be a new relationship moving forward so that you can honor the family unit that you had?
- [42:52]
Mike
I try, you know, and it's like I, I've tried like several different approaches because I used to, you know, I know like where I did my wrong, so to speak, was not taking care of myself. And I went through a lot of loss. And I had mentioned I'm a trans guy. I don't think like, you know, like, I always know she accepted that, but there was a lot of things that I don't think I really accepted, you know, and when I was younger, I, I came out as like a trans guy. I was part of this community in the city and I would go on talks and really encourage people. And then like, it was like I found this beautiful girl in Long island who was really straight, you know, and it was like all about being stealth. And she fell in love with me and accepted me. And I just can't believe 25 years later, like going through all this stuff like we're here, you know, and our son is the most precious thing in the world. He's non verbal, he's autistic, and he really needs us more than most little guys and girls, you know, and it is a shame. And I don't know, you know, I needed to become humble. And how I relate to you as well is there are things that I felt like were so important to say and I needed to be heard and I needed to take a lot of steps back and I think I kind of took them too late, you know.
- [44:06]
Chelsea Handler
That's okay though. That's okay. Everything's, it's okay. All of these things that you're saying are okay. It's part of your life and it's part of how you deal with it. Do you have a therapist?
- [44:16]
Mike
I do. And it's, it's been great to have that and to see that, that help and the self reflection is amazing. And I mean like, I have a lot of work to do, don't get me wrong. But even like stepping Out. What encouraged me to email you is I went and saw you by myself. That's something I never would have done. I. I bought a ticket to see you in King's Theater. My English was messed in that email, so thanks for cleaning it up, Catherine, because I was just so excited that I was doing it, and I was like, you know what? Screw it. I'm gonna reach out and just let her know it, you know, like, so just, like, that alone was a huge step for me to just humble. Be humble. Like, to be able to walk in there humble but confident, you know, I lost both. And I think that was part of what. She fell in love with me. And I want us to kind of. Kind of regroup. Like, I even heard of, like, co parenting counseling. Like, all right, we accept, you know, marriage is over. We're going to, you know, live apart. But, like, there are so many resources. I even brought her to a rage room. You know, like, maybe we have, like, anger or resentment. Like, bang it out, you know, hit some stuff. Like, you know, it's just like, I don't even know how to navigate this at all, you know.
- [45:22]
Chelsea Handler
Okay, well, it's one step at a time, first of all. You have to take it one step at a time. What. How old were you when you transitioned?
- [45:29]
Mike
So it was interesting. That's an interesting question. I think I always knew, but the first time I introduced myself, I was very lucky. I was going. I was probably like, 10, 11 going into sixth grade. I was so lucky. I was in the movie scene, Terminator 2, whatever year that was out. And I saw a girl that I liked, and she assumed, you know, like, I had my hair cut short, and. And I was very, very fortunate, transition wise. But now later in life, I almost feel too fortunate, if that's weird or not.
- [45:58]
Chelsea Handler
Well, it sounds to me like what you're missing is, like, there's a lot of delayed grief that's coming up. That sounds like it's probably related to your transition and not getting the appropriate therapy. Going through that transition, like you saying you were lucky to go through that. What? The experience you're talking about would also kind of masks like, okay, okay, I can do this, I can do this. It was not no big deal. And when it. When it is a big deal, when there are feelings that you need to digest and you need to understand about yourself, there's going to be a lot of emotion around that that you haven't experienced yet that is necessary to go through, otherwise it will tear you apart.
- [46:38]
Mike
I think you're right. Like, even crying, like, this is new for me.
- [46:42]
Chelsea Handler
That's good, though. It's good that you're crying. It's absolutely wonderful. Like, that's what you need to do more of, is cr.
- [46:48]
Catherine
It gets it out of your body.
- [46:49]
Chelsea Handler
There's a grieving process that comes with transitioning, and if it's not handled properly, this is the kind of thing that can happen. And while it may seem like it's your relationship and maybe it is, there's a lot of stuff that creeps up on us from our younger years when we don't address them. So I would really encourage you to really speak with your therapist in a candid way about all of this. I would also encourage you to write down as much as you can, whenever you can. You know, really start journaling about how you're feeling. And you're gonna. I feel like you're gonna realize that a lot. These emotions are very much tied to your emotions from being a younger person and that haven't been fully examined. And while that may not sound like a fun thing to do, it's a necessary thing to do for your future and for moving through this divorce in a more amicable way. And if you can approach your wife in a way that. That is really loving. Do you think you can or have you about moving forward in a more amicable way in the name of your son?
- [47:50]
Mike
I've tried, but I think my communication is just, like.
- [47:53]
Chelsea Handler
Off.
- [47:54]
Mike
Yeah, off, Exactly.
- [47:56]
Chelsea Handler
Okay.
- [47:56]
Mike
I don't think I'm approaching it at all the right way, and I just don't know how.
- [48:01]
Chelsea Handler
Okay, well, can't you have your therapist. Can you have a session with your therapist and your wife and have her address the communication for both of you?
- [48:09]
Maren Morris
Wow.
- [48:10]
Mike
Like, I keep thinking. Wow. Like, this is what I mean. Like, this is incredible. Like, I always keep thinking it has to be, like, co parenting or this. All these couples, like, cat, like, something together, but I never even thought of that. That is an amazing thing. And I think you're right. My third appearance, she's super supportive. And I bet you. Yes, one session just to kind of get that communication.
- [48:30]
Chelsea Handler
Maybe more than one, though. Maybe more than one. And also frame it. Frame it to your wife. Like, hey, listen, I'm having. I think I have a lot of work to do on my communication, so I'm seeing a therapist. It would really mean the world to me if you could come in for a session and we can discuss moving forward in the name of our child for the purpose of co parenting in the future. I have accepted that this relationship doesn't work for you. I am not going to fight you about that. And then you have to make that promise that you're not gonna try and like get her back. And that's not what this is about. This is all for the sanity and safety of your son.
- [49:05]
Mike
Yeah, completely.
- [49:06]
Chelsea Handler
Right.
- [49:06]
Mike
I try and open my home to her. Like, even Easter Sunday, you know, like, it's like, even if we could just spend an evening together, wake up, let him see the Easter. It's two. What, two holidays a month that we celebrate Christmas and Easter, kid. You can't get that together. You know, like, I try and encourage that, but then if we're not communicating right, and we're like being ridiculous, like he feels that, you know, he's non verbal too, so he's a little bit more of a child.
- [49:28]
Chelsea Handler
He probably know non verbal kids know more than verbal kids anyway because their senses are so heightened. Yeah. Have you listened to that podcast, telepathy tapes? Yes, I started listening to some of that.
- [49:37]
Mike
Absolutely.
- [49:38]
Chelsea Handler
About nonverbal.
- [49:39]
Catherine
Pretty cool.
- [49:40]
Chelsea Handler
It's mind blowing and it's incredible.
- [49:43]
Mike
And it's like, I just know how many questions and even here are some of your stories. Like the questions I had, you know, like, imagine what's going through his head. And it's like there are just so many things that we just need to get on board on. Like even his therapies and schedules and whatever it is. Like we just gotta. Gotta be hands on deck.
- [50:00]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah. And the way to get there is to get yourself in a healthy place. So you have to double down on your therapy, double down on your journaling, start meditating for about 10 minutes a day just to get yourself centered. Just get a download to Deepak Chopra's app. Download headspace, download whatever. 10% happier. There's a million. They'll guide your meditation. They will tell you what to think about and what to focus on and. And just get yourself into. It's okay to have these emotions. It's important that you go through this grief. But it's really important that you don't take this out on anyone else. Like that you take your wife to your couple's therapist and if she wants to go to one of hers, that's fine too. If she'd rather go to someone she knows, great, whatever. This is all in the name of better communication. And your communication is gonna get better if that's what you choose to focus on in therapy and with your wife. So that's your first step. And then I want you to call us in about six weeks and give us an update.
- [50:58]
Mike
Oh, gosh. All right. Homework. Yeah, you got it.
- [51:01]
Chelsea Handler
You have homework. This is serious.
- [51:03]
Mike
Yeah, this is really serious. And it's six weeks, definitely. That's. That hits us right on the head, too. Like, we're going to be going back to court. And try not to cry. That's why I try to, you know, segue.
- [51:13]
Chelsea Handler
It's okay. It's okay, right?
- [51:15]
Mike
And it's. And I know she's good in there, and so am I. And it just sucks. Like, how do you, like, just separate that emotion, Put the proper boundaries up to move forward, you know? And I think you. I never thought of that. So that's huge. To even suggest that to my therapist, That's a huge step. Like, hey, just come. You know, she knows that I've been with my therapist for a long time now. Like, just come on in and. And just have it communicate and channel in the proper way. That's a huge step. Yeah, that's huge. I appreciate that advice because you're just looking in and getting me set straight right now. That's what I needed from you. I need you to. To get me focused.
- [51:50]
Chelsea Handler
Marin shares custody with her ex for her child. So, Marin, do you have any words of encouragement for him?
- [51:56]
Maren Morris
I mean, it's so clear that you both care about your son so deeply, and that's, like, going to be the thing that saves you through all of this grief and like, the car crash that is divorced. It's like the worst thing you can go through. And it's. It's a death now that I'm kind of on the other side of it. And we are great co parents, and we've sort of let each other go in that romantic sense, Even though we still have so much love and history and now a child to, like, like, you know, be there for. I. I think I was saying earlier, it's like the person you marry is not the person that you divorce on both ends. Like, she might be thinking that as well. And it's just. That's like, the hardest part is knowing that it's not the same. But for your son, I think the therapy idea, and obviously it's your therapist, so she might come in feeling a little bit, like, ganged up on. So I think the suggestion of if it's someone she's more comfortable with, I think just as long as there's a third party who's a professional in the room being, like, holding you two accountable and giving you tools on how to talk to each other, you Just fuel all of that self care and love and like, respect for yourself that is going to be so apparent to her and your son this time. Like, give yourself the time to like, be, you know, a little bit of a mess. It's grief, be sad, cry, journal, meditate, all the things. But I think, yeah, logistically, of course, like, get a session on the books where it's the three of you. And I think that's just an amazing way to go forward. Especially like if it's before the court date and the judge, at least in Tennessee ends up like telling you how to split the co parenting schedule. And I will say, like, that's very bizarre, but also gives me comfort to know that like, and I think my ex husband as well, like, the state has given us this split and we have to abide by it. So there's no, like, well, do you get Easter or do I? Like, it's in writing. And that kind of just, it takes us and our emotions out of it, which is really helpful for both of us now. It's like, I won't say easy and we do co parent super well now, but like, you just have to allow yourself that time to feel all the feelings and know that this is like a lot of probably residual stuff coming up from like your transition and at a time it was so brave to do so. Like before we had all the resources and talks about trans people. Like, you were so ahead of that. Like, and being a champion for your community and yourself. I think, like rekindling that as well. Like, go out there with your community again. Like, go do those talks again. I think that'll bring you so much like, like empowerment.
- [54:41]
Mike
You hit that on the head. So I recently started joining some trans groups again and I was actually just, you know, so that starts actually next week and.
- [54:49]
Maren Morris
Amazing.
- [54:50]
Mike
Yeah. So you, you actually hit. You guys are hitting her out of the head. It's like a lot of that did come up, I think, because I felt like a lot and maybe even put that pressure on her. If she. And I can even get to that on her, like, that she accepted that. And I put a lot of that on her and I put her, I put her on a pedestal that way. And, and now having a child, like, like kind of what you said, I realize what unconditional love is. Not just with a child, with another person. And it's kind of like, it's almost like a choice. But it is, it is a choice. And it isn't at the same time, like when you realize what unconditional Love is incredible. And I know deep down she has that. For me, it's just like what you guys are saying. You guys are hitting it on the head and I appreciate it, like getting through some of that residual resentment or whatever that we just never dealt with. We never dealt with it. We were just. Yeah, we just, I think got together very young and just kind of kept shelving stuff and, you know, getting through having fun through it or distractions. It's not dealing with, you know.
- [55:47]
Catherine
Yeah. Well, Mike, will you check in with us in about six weeks?
- [55:50]
Mike
I sure will. I. I appreciate that. Thank you for that accountability.
- [55:54]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah, absolutely. Take care, Mike.
- [55:57]
Catherine
All right, talk to you soon.
- [55:59]
Mike
Thank you ladies so much. I really appreciate everything. It really. I'm really going to take it serious.
- [56:04]
Chelsea Handler
Good.
- [56:05]
Catherine
Thanks, Mike. Appreciate you.
- [56:07]
Chelsea Handler
That was a very heavy phone call. Well done, everyone. Well done.
- [56:11]
Maren Morris
But amazing too. Like you could just tell he knew a lot of this already and is so self aware. But also sometimes, like we were saying earlier, just someone tell me what to do next.
- [56:24]
Chelsea Handler
Yes, exactly.
- [56:25]
Catherine
Well, our next question comes from allie. She is 22. Dear Chelsea, my name is Allie. I'm just starting out in music. I have the urge to rush everything. I'm writing music whenever it comes to me, and all I want to do is post it on my Instagram to quote, unquote, prove something. I know I have nothing to prove, really. I know I can do it. I'm currently looking to get back into school since I had to take some time off from college for mental health treatment. Music has been so amazing at helping me process things and start to feel like myself again. I wrote a lot of poetry and treatment that I want to set to music, so that's a big motivator. I'm starting piano lessons in June and I'm studying music theory till then. Any advice? What else should I study to help better myself? I've flown the rainbow of different self love practices. But how can I practice the art of patience? Sincerely, Allie.
- [57:13]
Chelsea Handler
Hi, Ali.
- [57:15]
Allie
Hi, it's good to see you.
- [57:17]
Chelsea Handler
This is Maren Morris, our special guest today. Perfect timing for your question.
- [57:22]
Maren Morris
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question because I think patience is the hardest thing for me to deal with because I'm just so type A when it becomes about like my decision making and like, how do I get here? Let's spring into action. Just like the thought of waiting on something is so frustrating. But I think it's amazing that like at this age you've discovered these new lanes of like creativity and therapy. Also, I Mean, I cannot play the piano, I can barely play the guitar. But like, if I didn't have that tool to write songs to. I know there are people that can write songs without playing an instrument, but I just find it so helpful and like really liberating to not have to rely on someone else to play the music for you. So I think it's amazing that you've like, you have lessons planned.
- [58:14]
Mike
Yeah.
- [58:14]
Maren Morris
And the music theory thing is also like so helpful, especially if you're getting into piano. Music theory will really help you with that. I'm like more ear trained with guitar, but yeah, I mean, I think it's wonderful. But I think when I give advice like to songwriters, the word patience is always the first thing I say is because there's so many people. I don't know if you're wanting to do this professionally or just have it for your own tool of healing. But yeah, I just think like giving yourself the time to experience life and be able to write through it. And also like give yourself those days where like allow yourself to write something terrible. Like that is so important is to like tell yourself this is not a reflection of my talent. Some days I will write something that is so unlistenable to anyone but me. And that's okay, like I got it out of the, of the pipe, but like something greater is behind it, hopefully. So yeah, like dare to suck, write a bad song, write like a shit piece of poetry and just be like, okay, that's off onto the next one.
- [59:27]
Chelsea Handler
I also think on the subject of patience, I have no patience either. I have to work very, very hard at my patience. But I understand that impulse to want to share something that you think is great. But as a 22 year old artist, you have so much room to grow. And I know that's not what you want to hear. Cause you think you're great now, right? But you're only going to get greater. You're only going to get better at your craft as you age and as you experience more and more songwriting and you sing more and you learn the piano and you learn and you get to know yourself in a better way as an artist. So when you're holding, when you have that impulse to share, I have to put this on social, I have to put this on social media. Sometimes you should. And sometimes if you just wait a day, wait like 24 hours, like start to train your brain, this is gonna be a big favor to you as you get older as an artist, wait a minute and digest it and then listen to it. Again then the next day and think, is this really something I wanna put out there? Because you're only gonna get better at what you do, so why not wait and make sure that it's as good as it can get before you share everything that's happening?
- [60:32]
Catherine
Yeah, I think that's really important because we do live in this culture of, like, if I made something, I have to put it out there for. And especially as you're this baby artist, like, that can be intimidating, to say the very least of, you know, putting something in front of people. I think there's power in allowing it to be for yourself for a little while and nurture yourself and let yourself grow.
- [60:54]
Allie
Yeah. I love all those sentiments I have with the urges. It's like this urge to show the process and, like, how much I've improved. But really, like, I like what you were saying about, like, sitting on it and then also writing the bad music. Like, it's all, like, a part of the process.
- [61:13]
Chelsea Handler
It is. And. And. And you should write that down. Just write weight on a nice, like, index card or piece of paper and put it on your mirror. And then really think it through. Don't do things like, listen, I am a very impulsive person, but I have learned over the years, and it took me a long time to learn this. So you're 22. So if you can take this advice and really start, stick with it, you're going to be even more successful than you would have been had had you not taken advice. But wait, whenever you have an impulse, just seriously sleep on it. Look at it again in the morning, and if you feel the same way, then, sure, put it out. But just don't do things by, like, the seat of your pants. It's just not as productive as people think it is.
- [61:53]
Allie
Yeah.
- [61:53]
Maren Morris
And, Ali, Ali, like, I will tell you a quick story about how I have auditioned for every single talent show that's on television. Like, when I was a teenager, my mom dragged me to American Idol, Star Search, America's Got Talent, the Voice, they all said no. And I moved to Nashville when I was 23 just to write songs for other artists. And I didn't get a record deal until I was 26. So, like, thank God I didn't make it onto any of those shows because I was so corny and not ready, like, not ready to be seen on a public level by any means. And I just wouldn't have handled it well. But by the time I was, like, 25. Ish, 26, I was like, okay, I know what my Sound is. And that's after also, like, 15 years of touring that I was, like, it took me a second to learn from other writers in Nashville, like, how to write songs and how to collaborate. So, yeah, just, like, that was my patience lesson, was, thank God all these shows said absolutely not to me, because now I think I'd be. I'd be cringing and, like, trying to scrub it from the Internet. So it happens when it happens. Yeah.
- [63:04]
Allie
Yeah. I'm really relieved to hear that because, like, I kind of am sitting on that too, because, like, I have urges to, like, sign up for, like, try, like, you know, those shows they were talking about. And it's. I just want to wait, like, until I am, like, feeling fully confident.
- [63:21]
Chelsea Handler
Yes. Wait for that. It's coming. It's coming your way. I promise.
- [63:25]
Catherine
And, Maren, you bring up a really good point about collaboration, too. I would love to see you, Ally, as you're getting started in this. Find yourself a community of musicians. Find one or two other people who you can jam with, run things by. Because it is such a collaborative process. And as far as posting stuff, it's not to say you can't be recording, because I think that's a great idea to be recording your progress as you go. But, like, don't feel pressured to post right now.
- [63:50]
Allie
Thank you. That's really good to hear.
- [63:53]
Chelsea Handler
Oh, well, good luck with everything. Thanks for calling in.
- [63:57]
Allie
Thank you for giving all the experience.
- [63:59]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah, of course.
- [64:01]
Catherine
Ali, we'll check in with you in six months. Okay. Okay.
- [64:05]
Allie
Thank you so much.
- [64:06]
Maren Morris
Thanks, Allie.
- [64:07]
Chelsea Handler
You guys, I would review that as an A plus.
- [64:09]
Catherine
Call.
- [64:10]
Chelsea Handler
Call and deliver. Great, great advice from an actual musician, a successful musician, and me. Okay, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna take a break and come back and say goodbye to Maren Morris. Please tag me for the special because I get so many tags about my books, but I'm not getting as many about my special. And my special's the newest thing out, so I want to make sure all my ardent fans are watching it and tagging me. And I'll repost you. And yes, it's called the Feelings.
- [64:41]
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- [65:12]
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- [65:26]
Maren Morris
I was calling about the murder of my husband.
- [65:28]
Mike
It's a cold case.
- [65:29]
Chelsea Handler
They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day.
- [65:33]
Mike
The murderer is still out there.
- [65:35]
Katherine Townsend
Every week on Hell and Gone Murder line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking.
- [65:44]
Chelsea Handler
Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for.
- [65:56]
Katherine Townsend
If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Helen Gone murder line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Helen Gone Murderline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [66:13]
Chelsea Handler
And we're back with Maren Morris. I wanna just read a quote before we say goodbye to Maren. This is with her new album, Dreamsicle, comes out May 9 on all platforms. And this is an album quote from Maren that I wanna read. Dreamsicle takes place in the aftermath of loosening my grip on my personal and professional life, sweeping through the pits of grief, but never staying too long and finding the joy in knowing that at my core, I'm still who I am. And that's pretty fucking great. No monster in the mirror. No shame laid in decade or unraveling what happened. Just acceptance, release, and the reclaiming of how strong I've always been with no need to dim or water down it dreams to call became less about the hard lessons and more about enjoying the bumpy ride and finding people who genuinely want to be on it with you because they love you. It's about appreciating and respecting the beauty and nuances of life while it's happening, not after it's too late. That's really beautiful. And I wanted to share that with all of our listeners.
- [67:13]
Maren Morris
Oh, thank you.
- [67:15]
Chelsea Handler
The spirit of your album.
- [67:17]
Maren Morris
Yeah, I would say so. And I wrote that like three months ago, so I'm like, I'm glad I still feel this way. Yeah. I think it's just. It's so tough to, like, put work out and be like, is this like your magnum opus? Like, you just can't think about that. You just have to write what you're going through and have the stones to put it out and be received and loved and critiqued and hated and all the shit. But it's like you have to get it out of your body and your mind. And I think, yeah, there is such a release in that and not feeling, like, tethered to the past or the, like, practice of nostalgia and just truly being able to enjoy something while you're still in it. Yeah. I mean, let's circle back when I'm 40 and I'll revisit that quote. But I feel proud of it.
- [68:08]
Chelsea Handler
You should feel proud of it. I'm proud of you. And I don't even. I don't say that in a patronizing, mother, maternal way. I just mean from woman to woman. I'm proud of you.
- [68:16]
Maren Morris
Well, same.
- [68:17]
Chelsea Handler
I'm going to try and catch you on tour. The tour starts July 12th and shows she's doing us, Europe and UK. So get your tickets@marenmaris.com and I'm going to come find you, Maren, and come to one of your shows.
- [68:29]
Maren Morris
Yes. I know you saw me at the Pink show, but this will be our stage.
- [68:33]
Chelsea Handler
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we'll be back. So nice speaking with you today. Thank you.
- [68:38]
Maren Morris
Yeah, thank you for having me.
- [68:40]
Chelsea Handler
Have a great day.
- [68:42]
Maren Morris
Y' all, too. Bye, everyone.
- [68:43]
Chelsea Handler
Bye. Okay, my remaining dates for Vegas. There are remaining dates for this year. Summertime is coming and I will be in Vegas at the Cosmo. Doing my residency on July 5th will be the next date that I'm there. July 5th, August 30th, and then November 1st and 29th. November 1st and November 29th, I will be in Las Vegas at the Cosmo, performing inside myself at the Chelsea. It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason. Okay, thank you.
- [69:18]
Catherine
Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into dearchelseapodcastmail.com Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching eercelsea pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Kathryn Law. And be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com.
- [69:39]
Chelsea Handler
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- [70:13]
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