We Don’t Condone Murder with Ari Graynor

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dear Chelsea – "We Don’t Condone Murder with Ari Graynor"

Episode Release Date: February 20, 2025
Host: Chelsea Handler
Guest: Ari Graynor

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1. Welcome and Personal Updates

The episode kicks off with Chelsea Handler sharing personal updates, including her ongoing battle with an infection in her shoulder and a cold, which she humorously refers to as "dying." She recounts her recent trip to Sun Valley with friends to shoot her birthday video, highlighting the complex production involving mountains, bikinis, and skiing. Chelsea also announces her upcoming 50th birthday on February 25th, embracing it as a milestone of "midlife joy." She reveals plans for her seventh book, "I'll Have What She's Having," a European tour slated for May and June across various cities, and a Netflix special releasing on March 25th. Additionally, she mentions parting ways with Doug, who flew home with Ma Belle, while Chelsea returns to Whistler for a pre-birthday celebration before heading to New York to promote her book.

Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea Handler (03:00): "February 25th, I turn 50 years old. A midlife joy."
• Chelsea Handler (03:17): "But even though I am dying, I feel amazing."

2. Introducing Ari Graynor

Chelsea introduces actress Ari Graynor, renowned for her roles in "Winning Time," "Mrs. America," and most recently, "Monsters" where she portrayed Leslie Abramson in the Lyle and Eric Menendez story. The conversation initially touches on Ari's personal life, including her recent purchase of a historic house in upstate New York—built in 1803 with 62 acres and a barn from 1796.

Notable Quotes:

• Ari Graynor (05:05): "I got a big girl house like six months before the pandemic... It was a pretty wild."
• Chelsea Handler (05:42): "Just in time to go back to that century."

3. Delving into the Menendez Brothers Case

Ari and Chelsea delve into the complexities of the Menendez brothers' case. Ari discusses her research and portrayal of Leslie Abramson, emphasizing the psychological impact of abuse and trauma that the Menendez brothers endured. She expresses a belief that the brothers should be released from jail, highlighting their positive contributions, such as obtaining college degrees and initiating programs like hospice assistance for older inmates and a green space program.

Notable Quotes:

• Ari Graynor (12:22): "I strongly believe it's time for them to be out of jail."
• Chelsea Handler (16:18): "Is the punishment justified or is it just sentencing?"

4. The Psychology of Abuse and Acting Insights

Ari provides an insider's perspective on abuse and the challenges victims face in breaking free from manipulative environments. She discusses how cultural perceptions, especially gender biases, influenced the initial hung jury in the Menendez trial. Ari shares her acting process, including her unique "dream work" method to tap into her unconscious creativity, which helped her embody Leslie Abramson's character.

Notable Quotes:

• Ari Graynor (15:54): "It's a part of the justice system that I think is for women, for children."
• Chelsea Handler (22:57): "How did you not practice the voice or the accent?"

5. Callers' Advice Segments

Throughout the episode, Chelsea and Ari engage with listeners' questions, offering advice on various personal and emotional dilemmas.

Caller: Wendy's Dilemma on Relocating Due to Political Climate

Wendy, a feminist and activist, contemplates moving out of the U.S. due to safety concerns amid the current administration. She wonders if relocating will hinder her activism or if she might regret leaving her community.

Advice Given:

• Chelsea Handler (30:00): "If you are not comfortable with what's happening, go."
• Ari Graynor (31:56): "I think you should go."

Caller: Bri's Hesitation to Move in with a New Partner

Bri struggles with the decision to move in with her new partner despite loving her independent living space. She fears losing her sense of self and resenting the relationship if she compromises her solitude.

Advice Given:

• Ari Graynor (35:24): "Sometimes it's harder to be with somebody all of the time than it is to be away."
• Chelsea Handler (37:28): "It's so chic to live apart."

Caller: Sarah's Breach of Privacy by Mother-in-Law

Sarah is distressed that her mother-in-law tampered with her journal, which she used as a therapeutic tool during postpartum depression. She feels unsafe journaling again and seeks ways to reclaim her coping mechanism.

Advice Given:

• Chelsea Handler (53:48): "You have to start journaling again. This is not your issue. This is your mother in law's issue."
• Ari Graynor (54:39): "Reclaim that power for yourself."

6. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Events

Chelsea wraps up the episode by promoting her European tour, detailing cities such as Reykjavik, Dublin, Oslo, Lisbon, and more. She encourages listeners to attend her book events and stay connected through her merchandise and social media channels.

Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea Handler (57:35): "I'm coming to Reykjavik, I'm coming to Dublin... I'm coming abroad."
• Ari Graynor (56:24): "This was like such a joy. I love you and I'm like just so happy I got to be here."

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Conclusion

In this episode of Dear Chelsea, Chelsea Handler and Ari Graynor navigate a blend of personal anecdotes, deep discussions on legal and psychological aspects of abuse cases, and heartfelt advice to listeners facing relationship and personal challenges. Ari's insights from her acting career enrich the conversation, providing a nuanced perspective on complex emotional and social issues. The episode balances humor with poignancy, staying true to the show's mission of offering honest and often hilarious advice.

Highlighted Quotes:

• Ari Graynor (15:50): "It's not something I'm signing up for, but it is a part of the justice system..."
• Chelsea Handler (55:36): "You're choosing to allow her to disrupt this connection you had with yourself and that's on you."

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For more episodes and advice, listeners are encouraged to send their questions to [e-mail].

Transcript

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Today Show Announcer]

Morning brings a fresh new energy. And no matter what the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Chelsea Handler]

We get the best start to the day because we started together. Watch the Today show weekdays at 7am on NBC. Hi Katherine.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Hi Chelsea.

[Ari Graynor]

Hi.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Where are you at right now?

[Podcast Guest]

You're all over.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I've. It's been a rough run of things. I am dying. I'm sick. I just came from Sun Valley where I shot my birthday video. I seem to have picked up a cold on top of the infection that I have in my shoulder. So I believe I'm dying. But I have been dying now for like three or four years and I feel like fighting it really hard. So we went to Sun Valley, me and a bunch of my girlfriends to shoot my birthday video. Was quite A production. There was a lot of moving parts. I had my friends Reggie and Lola, Chris in Sun Valley set up the whole thing and organize it. And it involved a lot of things. A lot of mountains, a lot of bikinis, a lot of skiing. And the sun came out just in time.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Oh, beautiful. That's all you can hope for on your birthday.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, my birthday's coming up. Tuesday is my birthday, everyone. February 25th, I turn 50 years old. A midlife joy. That's what we're calling it. Chelsea Joy Handler is experiencing midlife joy. My new book, I'll have what she's having. My seventh book, my seventh book is coming out on February 25th. I mean, I'm pretty pumped about turning 50. I'm not going to pretend that I'm upset about it, because I'm not.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

I'm so happy for you. This is going to be the decade of your life. I foresee it. I see it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Thank you. I thank you. I appreciate that. But even though I am dying, I feel amazing. I'm so pleased. I'm fighting this infection in my arm for my shoulder thing, and that's going away. Hopefully I get my pick line out. February 24th, the day before my birthday.

[Ari Graynor]

Great timing.

[Chelsea Handler]

I got one drink in four weeks. I had a beer the other night when we got to Sun Valley just to celebrate altitude. Then I announced my European tour, which is going to take place May and June. I'm going to like 13, 16 cities in Europe from like Oslo, Reykjavik to Oslo and Portugal, Lisbon, all these places. So that's pretty exciting. And yes, I know Lisbon is the capital of Portugal and Portugal isn't part of Lisbon, but I said it in the wrong order, so that's really exciting. And then my Netflix special, which we just showed a clip of yesterday, is coming out March 25th, and I've just parted ways with Doug. Doug was met in Sun Valley by Ma Belle, who flew home with him while I flew back to Whistler because I'm having a birthday party, a pre birthday party here before I leave for New York to promote my book.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

It's probably not suitable for children like Doug.

[Chelsea Handler]

No, my book is probably not suitable for children or adults for that matter. Our guest today stars in winning time, Mrs. America, and most recently, Monsters. She played Leslie Abramson in the Lyle and Eric Menendez Story. Please welcome actress Ari Graynor. Hi, Juju.

[Ari Graynor]

Hi.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's a Jew festival. How are you?

[Ari Graynor]

It's a Jew fest. I'm great. How are you?

[Chelsea Handler]

Welcome to the podcast. Ari Graynor.

[Ari Graynor]

I'm So happy to be on here and see you because we met a Gajalian years ago.

[Chelsea Handler]

Where did we meet? Refresh my memory please.

[Ari Graynor]

It was probably 17 to 18 years ago at Jenny and Jason's house. Oh.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh my God. Two hot messes. Two of the. Two of the hottest messes. Actually, that's not fair to Jason. Jenny's really the hot mess of the two. Even though Jason is also a high. I miss them. What, do you guys not see each other anymore? Are you. Where are you? You're in New York, right?

[Ari Graynor]

I'm in New York. I'm in upstate New York now.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yes. You just bought your first big girl house.

[Ari Graynor]

I got a big girl house like six months before the pandemic. I bought like a house built in 1803 with 62 acres and a barn built in 1796. And it's. It's crazy. It's been like a whole. It's amazing.

[Chelsea Handler]

Just in time to go back to that. Just to go back to that century.

[Ari Graynor]

That's right. Everyone needs to step back into 1803.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, congratulations on that.

[Ari Graynor]

Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Isn't it nice to be a female homeowner?

[Ari Graynor]

It truly, truly is. I mean, it was a wild thing doing it right before the pandemic. And I was dating somebody at the time, but he hadn't seen the place. And then we broke up and then it was pandemic and me and my dog were just like, great, now we'll just face our existential crisis out on the land and in this new house. And it was a pretty wild.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think it's really powerful when you are a single woman and are able to buy property. It shouldn't really be, but as I was reading her notes. Is this something that you were talking about? Because I thought it was a great point about how long ago it was. It wasn't that long ago where we had to get man's permission to even have our name on a deed or to co. They had to co. To co vouch for us to get. I mean, what, like the 70s?

[Ari Graynor]

Like it was not that long ago.

[Chelsea Handler]

What a nightmare that sounds like. I really hope we're not headed back in that direction even though all fingers are pointing in that direction.

[Ari Graynor]

I know it's a scary time for sure, but yeah, I mean, it's felt like the power of that. Like it was a huge internal sense of power of not only buying the place, but then being here alone and having the space where it's like, you know, we have all these like images of like the Marlboro man. Or like, men alone in the woods and doing their thing, but we don't really have that for women. And then when I was here and I was out on the land and doing my thing and being in solitude and being like, this is my place. This is a powerful.

[Chelsea Handler]

I like out on the land.

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Do you have, like, chickens or any of that stuff, like, animals out on. On the property?

[Ari Graynor]

No, I mean, there's like the wild animals, you know, coyotes, there's the occasional bear sighting. There's like some random weasel kind of creatures and muskrats by the pond and deer and fox and, you know, it's like all of that, but I don't have chickens yet eventually.

[Chelsea Handler]

Have you ever seen any of those black king snakes up there in upstate New York?

[Ari Graynor]

Not a black king snake, I don't think, but there are snakes we call the big one Mathilde. We say, bonjour, Mathilde. I don't know why she got named Mathilde, but they're these, like, enormous garden stakes. And one got in the house. But I wasn't home and my parents were here. My mom sent me this picture of, like, a snake, like, this big, that had, I guess, crawled through, like, the stone walls and was in the living room, and she had to take it out. And I was very glad I wasn't home on that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, so I used to date this guy who had a house in upstate New York, and he had this. And there was this guy that lived in one of the properties around him, and he knew I have. I have, like, a phobia of snakes. And they have all those black, thick king snakes up in upstate New York. And he told us he once opened up his cellar, turned on lights, and, I mean, it was pitch black, and all you saw were all these little sets of white eyes and that there were dozens and dozens. Dozens and dozens of kingsn resting on top of each other.

[Ari Graynor]

No.

[Chelsea Handler]

I was like, that is like a horror scene from my worst nightmare movie.

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah, yeah. Luckily, like, the snakes are not the issue for me. It's rodentia is the problem. And so when I first moved here and there was the first couple of mouse sightings, I was like, I just have to move. I'll have to sell it. I'm outrun. I'm leaving the house. I can never go inside ever again.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

So burn it down.

[Chelsea Handler]

What is rodentia exactly? Isn't that kind of rodent?

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Mice, rats?

[Ari Graynor]

It's like, if I see, like, a mouse, I completely lose my shit. And I've gotten Better, like, the big. Like, I could be alone for, like, months at a time and figure out how to make that be okay. But if there was a mouse or a dead mouse in the house, I was like, this is something I can't deal with. This is. This is, like, the true confrontation of my abilities. But snakes, like, I'm okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's funny. I think people either have it about. It's usually snakes or. Or spiders, and then it's usually spider. I can deal. If I see a mouse, I'm not excited, but I'm not going to lose it. Like, if I saw a snake, even in the wilderness, I have an issue with them being there.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

I'm okay with snakes, not spiders. Yeah, that holds up spiders okay, too.

[Ari Graynor]

It's like. It's something about the way the mouse moves. And I think I also had, like, a. A traumatic experience with a hamster in my youth, and I never quite got over it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Did it involve Richard Gere's butt? You know, that's why he had to move to Spain. He's actually. He's on the right track. He got the fuck out of here. I was like, wait, that story. It's so funny when you hear of rumors like that for so many years and so many years that. You know that rumor that Richard Greer stuck a gerbil up his ass? But it's like, how can you be a person that goes around and those rumors are like, there's no recourse. You just have to sit there and take it. You just have to sit there because it's so ludicrous. It could be completely made up or it could be completely true. We'll never know. And maybe he doesn't remember.

[Ari Graynor]

Maybe. Maybe he was in the blackout.

[Chelsea Handler]

Ari, I was so. First of all, I'm so impressed with your acting. I think you're such a gifted and talented actress, as do many others, obviously. And I saw you in it. Was it Mrs. America? Right. You were amazing in that. And then most recently, you were in Monsters, the Menendez Brothers Story, playing Leslie Stahl, their attorney, which. Sorry, sorry.

[Ari Graynor]

Leslie Abramson. But Leslie Stahl is great, too. I'd love to play her.

[Chelsea Handler]

Is she an attorney, too? Oh, yeah.

[Ari Graynor]

I think she was on 60 Minutes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Perfect.

[Ari Graynor]

Leslie Stahl, Leslie Abramson.

[Chelsea Handler]

Blonde, tight curls.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's the same.

[Ari Graynor]

It's all the same.

[Chelsea Handler]

I am so eager to hear about your thoughts about the Menendez brothers and, like, what you think.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

I mean, are they getting right now?

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, now, because Kim Kardashian is trying to get them out of jail. And I think she's success. She's succeeding.

[Ari Graynor]

Well, she was. I mean, you know, now, look. I mean, I've been. I was, like, embroiled for a year in playing their defense attorney. So obviously, I was coming at it from, you know, a very specific point of view. I strongly believe it's time for them to be out of jail. And Kim and all the Gen zers who found the Menendez trial on YouTube when it came in in 2021, and then sort of started this movement like, on TikTok with them. And. And then the DA who just. Who didn't get reelected was like, get them out of there. And now I just hope they don't get stuck in another round of political maneuvering, because it's time. And it feels like the sentiment is. Is like, it's time to look at this. And then this new DA keeps pushing their trial date, and I think it just got moved again until March. It was supposed to be January 30th, but they've been in for 35 years. You know, they both got college degrees. They have been helping hospice with older inmates. They started a green space program. They've never had another incident. And, you know, I think just if that trial happened now, I. I think it would be looked at in a. In a different kind of way than it was back then.

[Chelsea Handler]

So you're, like, on their side, right? You. Is that what. Yeah, I am. You believe. You believe? Because there' There's a lot of back and forth about whether or not they were abused to the degree that they claimed they were, and whether or not a. This punishment is justified or if it's a just sentencing. And because I came away from watching that, I mean, I think I watched the real documentary, and then I watched your series, and I came away just more confused than ever. I wasn't convinced that they were as abused as they said they were. And then I was like, God, if this. If these were two girls, I wouldn't hesitate to. To believe them, you know, And I had to think about why I didn't believe them, because I was like, well, I just. But. And then I've never been. You know, I've never had that kind of manipulation in my life where somebody was manipulating. Like, if. If somebody did treat you that way and you were. You did turn into a grown man who could defend yourself that you wouldn't, because you're so brainwashed and you're so. There's such a power dynamic there. So talk to me a little bit about what you learned about that, because I'm so curious as. From an insider's perspective.

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah. I mean, that was kind of at the crux of the first trial, which was that basically the original trial was a hung jury, and it came down basically along gender lines because the men didn't believe that boys could be sexually abused. And. And culturally, people didn't believe that, which is absurd. You know, and I think the. The psychological impact, which is, you know what? Leslie, over the course of that trial and the six years that she was working with them, was trying to get people to understand the psychology of abuse and of trauma. And, you know, people being like, well, why didn't they just leave? And it's like, when you've been not only like, horrifically sexually abused, but also essentially brainwashed, the culture of control within that house or in an abusive relationship, you don't realize you. You can. Or how. Or when people are constantly threatening your life, you know, and even now, we still don't really have, like, a correct recourse for victims of abuse who have tried to get away, who have tried to divorce, who have tried to have restraining orders. I. I'm not. I'm not in any way condoning killing people by any means, but that's not what I'm here to do.

[Chelsea Handler]

New title to the episode. Ari Graynor, Espous.

[Ari Graynor]

Don't let that be the headline.

[Chelsea Handler]

A Spouse's Retaliation in the form of Murder.

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Yeah.

[Ari Graynor]

It's not something I'm signing up for, but it is a part of the justice system that I think is for women, for children. Of. Of when you are in a position and your life is on the line, does that mean that you should then be imprisoned for the rest of your life because it was the only way that you could survive? To me, I would say not, but, you know, that's just me.

[Chelsea Handler]

So what about the fact that was it Lyle that was on, who was talking to his girlfriend after the fact and admitted to lying about the sexual abuse? What about that component of information?

[Ari Graynor]

Well, here's what I feel about that, which is like, also, they did so much research on the show, so stuff that was in there was correct. I never read the book that she wrote. I was sort of like, I'm staying on my. My defense track. But. But psychologically, there's something that I can understand about that. Of. Like, when you have revealed your deepest, most unspeakable secret. I mean, first of all, there is nothing more unspeakable than sexual abuse, especially when you've come from a family where you are told your entire life, what you must never do is speak of something, and then to share that, to reveal that, I think there's like, an automatic reaction to then want to protect and defend and close up. I mean, I even feel that way, and I'm like, therapized up the wazoo. But when I have, like, a very vulnerable moment, there still is the reaction afterwards to want to try to, like, take it back or make a joke or do it. You know, there's a kind of a natural response to that. And so in a way, I understand where here's this young man who's just revealed the most painful things. And the bravado of being like, I didn't, you know, it wasn't real. I don't remember what he. What was said or what was actually said. But I understand the emotional response to want to close up, take it back, defend after revealing something so unbelievably painful. Hard.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, because right after the murders, they. I think that the biggest thing that was, you know, they went on these shopping sprees. They spent all this money. They were acting just so.

[Ari Graynor]

They were dumb kids. I mean, they were also dumb kids. But I also feel like I did so much research about Leslie, and I just think she's incredible. And I guess for me, it's like, to believe that also they were not abused means essentially that you think she made that story up. And from all of my research about her, like, people had opinions about her. She was a real firecracker, and not everybody liked her. But nobody ever called into question her integrity, ever, with any of her clients throughout her career about having to make up stories of their life. Like, she's not a snake. She's so brilliant. It's like she's too smart to have to make up something like that on their behalf, in my personal belief and defense of her.

[Chelsea Handler]

And did you have a lot of interaction with her, with Leslie?

[Ari Graynor]

No, sadly, I've not talked to her.

[Chelsea Handler]

What are some other, like, surprising things that you learned about her in doing the research?

[Ari Graynor]

Well, one thing that I think is really fun is that Joan Didion and John Gregory Dunn, who's Dominic Dunn's brother, were like, her best friends. And so I feel like when you find out that Joan Didion is her best friend, you're like, well, she's definitely no snooze, you know, like, that's a. That, like, tells you about a person, you know, and she, you know, she went to law school in the late 60s as a single mother and drove a yellow Corvette and she came from Queens, and her grandmother was a labor organizer and organizing and fighting against the man. And they were like a family that fought. And, you know, and then her. There was like a. Her father basically, like, complete. Her parents were divorced, but then her father completely disappeared from her life. They thought that he had moved to Florida to have another family, and it turned out that he was living, like, a couple blocks away, and she didn't speak to him for 34 years. Oh, and then during the trial, during the first trial, she reconnected with her father, adopted a baby, and her mother died, like, all during the first trial, which is crazy to think about.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow. It's amazing to think about people's lives, certain people's lives. Like, you know, the backstory, going to law school in the 60s as a woman. Just that alone.

[Ari Graynor]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

I wonder what that was like. And a yellow Corvette. I wonder what kind of car Lesley Stahl was driving at that time.

[Ari Graynor]

I know. Let's get Lesley Stahl on the phone.

[Chelsea Handler]

And her early cars, I feel like. And when you go in, like, when you're playing such a character because you want. I mean, I don't know. I'm not really an actor actor. So when you're playing a character, you don't want to impersonate them. Right. You don't want to make a caricature. You want to do your version of them. Is that correct?

[Ari Graynor]

Yes, yes. I mean, I definitely didn't. Yeah, you don't want to do an impersonation. But also, like, the juiciness of the opportunity of playing a real person being like, I want to try to honor and get down this person's essence. And also, you know, the rhythm of how she spoke and where her voice was and how she moves and all of that stuff. But, yeah, I mean, that was like, the terror of working on it myself and then showing up. And, you know, because I don't, like. I don't work with a coach or anything, I do this sort of, like, unconscious dream work that is its own thing. But, like, I'd never heard myself do it out loud, basically, until I showed up on set. I mean, I did. I did it in the audition. But, you know, auditions, you're just kind of starting that process where you've watched, like, a couple videos and, you know, I had listened to her audiobook, but, yeah, I was so scared because I was like, I don't know, am I doing this right? I mean, I sort of felt that way throughout the whole shoot. Like, we were still shooting episode eight, and I Remember saying to Ian Brennan, who is one of the co creators of the show and he was also directing, and I just remember sort of standing there and being like, do you think I'm good? And he was like, what do you mean the scene was good? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, like, do you think I'm good as Leslie? And he was like, what are you talking about? Like, you are Leslie. What do you mean? And I was like, okay, that's fine, it's fine.

[Chelsea Handler]

How did you not. You didn't practice the voice or the accent? I mean, I mean, on your own.

[Ari Graynor]

Like, I did kind of, but it's sort of like I would hear it. I mean, and I was just watching. I was watching everything with her. She wrote a book and she also did the audiobook. So I would listen to that all the time. I would fall asleep to her voice. I would fall asleep to the book. And you know, like, there were days on set when I did it, but especially in the very beginning, I had one day of shooting and then I had, I think, three weeks off or a month. And, you know, those are the dark days of the soul when it's the interstitial time where you're like, what have I done? Am I gonna be fired? Am I doing this right? And I think because you do. Like, everybody kind of has their own way of doing it. Like, some people are watching everything and trying to get it perfectly. Like, there are some videos from the trial that I wanted it to be as close to the thing as possible. But then sometimes people play real people, but they just are like, I'm doing. Completely doing my own version of it. And they're both right, you know, but it's just like a matter of, of if it works within the. The context of the thing. But.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, go back to what you were saying. You do some dream sequence. What, what, what did you just mention earlier before that?

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah, so there's this creative dream work I do, and it sort of is about tapping into your unconscious as a way of tapping into your creative source. Like this idea that sort of every character comes to you for a reason and at this time, and it's like, what are you able to explore sort of through this character, this work? So sometimes you use an actual dream and you sort of walk through the dream in your mind. It's very hard to describe, but it's really powerful. And I sort of used the episode five where me and Cooper Koch plays Eric Menendez, where it's a one shot, one scene conversation with us in prison and sort of used that and walked through that. And a lot of really interesting things came up for me in that about anger, about, like, confronting and owning my own anger. Because Leslie was somebody who was, like, very in touch with her anger and would define herself as a. As a fighter, like a fighting type. And I'm less of a fighting type. Like, I have a lot of anger, but it's not, you know, I think for women, it's hard to own anger. It's hard to know. Or for me, for me, just speaking for myself, where it's. It's there. But I think tapping into that and owning that and holding that and that was such a big part of, I think, where she was coming from in episode five of, like, the anger of what they had gone through and what those parents like, that. That was not what parenting was. And so there was, you know, it's a deep way of getting in touch with something without it being like, what's my objective in the scene? You know, it's like a deeper. I'm doing a great job. I think I'm doing a very good job describing.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I mean, I've never heard about this before, so it's my introduction, so that's okay. I don't have to fully understand. I just wanted to get a sense of what you were talking about. As soon as you said dream work, I'm like, we're going to need to go back to that for a second.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Okay. We're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Ari Grayner.

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[Chelsea Handler]

A mother's love deserves a gift like no other. Celebrate her love, strength and style with heartfelt jewelry from Pandora. From iconic charms to sparkling necklaces, rings, earrings and more, there are so many ways to say thank you, Mom. Pandora even has in store engraving so you can treat your mom to a trip to the store and have your pieces engraved together with your own handwriting. So on Mother's Day and every day, tell her how much she means to you with a gift from Pandora. Visit Pandora in store or [e-mail] Every.

[Today Show Announcer]

Morning brings a fresh new energy.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is today with and no matter.

[Today Show Announcer]

What the day holds, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Chelsea Handler]

When things are tough, we talk about it. When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it.

[Today Show Announcer]

Because today is where it's all happening. We get the best start to every morning because we start it together.

[Chelsea Handler]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC. And we're back with Ari Grater.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Are you ready to give some advice, Ari?

[Chelsea Handler]

Are you ready to give some advice? Are you ready to give some legal advice? Because that's what we're gonna do.

[Ari Graynor]

Legal advice, emotional advice, dating advice. I cannot wait.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Medical. You know, we do a lot of that here.

[Ari Graynor]

Oh, I mean medical too. Yeah, no, I got it. Well, this.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

It's so funny how sometimes things will come up earlier in the episode that we then have questions about. So our first question is a write in. It comes from Wendy. Wendy says, dear Chelsea, I am a woman in the United States. I feel extremely unsafe with the current administration. I'm a feminist, an activist and have become much more active since the Dobbs decision. I even host a podcast about deconstructing patriarchy and living life on your own terms. However, I feel compelled to move out of this soon to be shithole. My friend says, like James Baldwin, I will regret leaving to better myself while leaving everyone else behind. I disagree. At what point did people start leaving Germany? I can still do all feminist and activist interests while living overseas. I can fly back and do keynotes, host my podcast and write my substack and talk on social media. Do you think I'll regret moving out?

[Chelsea Handler]

Wende I would say Go for it. I personally, if you are not comfortable with what's happening, go. And if you have the means to go, absolutely. I think a lot of people are having these thoughts, and I think you have to do what's right for your sanity.

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. And I don't know. I mean, it's so hard to know of, like, all the specifics of what you're leaving, who you're leaving, but it's also people. You still hold those people in your life, you know, and there's. There's other life to be had. There's other experiences to be had. There's other places to live. And I think, like, fine. Listening to that voice is important. I mean, these are questions I ask myself, too. I don't know. Do you ask yourself those questions, Chelsea?

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, absolutely. I'm thinking about it all the time. I'm always thinking about it. I just watched Lee last night, that Kate Winslet movie that takes place during World War II. And, like, the rise of Hitler. Her whole life was happening during the rise of Hitler. And she talks in the movie. Like, the character. It happened so slowly, yet it happened so quickly. Like, they watched it, but it didn't seem real. It seemed like a dream. It seemed surreal. And then it was real. And then you had to exist within that. And it's like, how do you exist when Hitler's trying to take over Europe and he's the most powerful man in Europe? And she talks about living a life under that, like, within that, living a life, and then choosing. And then she became a war photographer because she had to do her part. She felt so compelled to do her part. And whatever your part is, you can still do that without being in this country. I believe that. I don't think you have to be here to fight. And I totally understand wanting to get out of here. And I would say if that's your inclination, go for it. You can. Of course, you're not gonna. You know, the people in your life are in your life. They're not going anywhere. But you might be. And, you know, if that's your decision, absolutely. I totally get it.

[Ari Graynor]

I think you should go. Wend.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Yeah, I agree. I find myself wanting to sort of, like, bury my head in the sand a little bit. And, like, this is not what Wendy's doing. She's like, I'm gonna keep up the good fight. But if you need to remove yourself from the physical location in order to, like, keep your stamina to keep doing that, it's probably the Right choice.

[Ari Graynor]

Well, and fighting can look like a lot of different ways or resistance can look like a lot of different ways. Like it's, it doesn't just have to be what we think of, of like fighting in a traditional sense. Like that can also be stepping outside of the norm or what you think you're supposed to do and showing a resistance about what feels right to you. Yeah, Go, Wendy, go. Maybe I'll be following you.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Yeah. And Wendy, send us the name of your podcast. We'll put it in the show notes so people can check it out. Our first color is Bri. Bri says. Dear Chelsea, I'm 35 and I've been in a series of monogamous relationships since I was 18. I left a 10 year relationship with a great man who I still adore as a friend, then around and found myself in a relationship with a raging alcoholic, then somehow ended up in a relationship with a man child. Put myself through the wringer and have been in therapy for two and a half years to find out a lot about myself as well as what I want in a partner. A year and a half ago, I told my therapist about all the qualities I wanted in a man and boom, I met him that night and can now finally say I'm in a loving and healthy relationship with someone I truly see a future with. He's a little older than me and has been ready to move in together for a couple months. But here's the thing. I love living alone. And I'm having a very hard time thinking about leaving my apartment and living with someone else again. Help a sister out. How do I handle this? Bri?

[Ari Graynor]

Hi, Bri.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Bri. Hello, Bri. I totally. I feel you. This is our special guest today, Ari Grayner. Hi. I feel you. And is there any way you can keep your apartment while you move in with him?

[Caller]

I mean, I could, but it's so expensive where I live. And like, that would be. The dream is to keep my apartment for sure, but I don't know how I would work that financially. It's the only thing.

[Ari Graynor]

Are you guys in the same city?

[Caller]

So we're like 45 minutes apart, which I love because it's like space and we both live by the ocean, so it's perfect, but it's just like.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So we're 45 minutes apart, but the commute doesn't really bug us or anything.

[Chelsea Handler]

I honestly, I'm gonna just say that I would stay where you are. Big surprise here. I know, but I would just say any distance you can have with you, someone you love. You met this great guy, he's sounds perfect for you and it sounds like you manifested it like very quickly. I. And if you're really into and you dig your alone time, I really would be hesitant to give that, that up.

[Ari Graynor]

I had to say my, my partner now that I've been with for four and a half years, I live in upstate New York and he lives in Seattle half the time because he has a 16 year old. And I don't know, after like a lot of relationships of like serial monogamy, living with people, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes I think it's harder to be with somebody all of the time than it is to be away from each other sometimes. And I don't know, I think it can look a lot of different ways where you can have like a beautiful, full, intimate, committed relationship and not have to live together all of the time.

[Caller]

Yeah, totally. I fully agree with you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. 45 minutes away is nothing like that is nothing. I mean I've been in so many long distance relationships and they work great because there's not an overdose of the person in my life, you know, I want to miss someone, you know, that what's, what makes me keep coming back. So I. And you seem like that same type. If you're saying that, yeah, 100%.

[Ari Graynor]

But you're saying it's too hard. The financials of holding on to this relationship, this apartment now that's too hard or.

[Caller]

No, I can keep, we can keep our living situation as is. And that's the thing. I never want to live with someone just because it's financially smart like that, that's not, I've done that and it doesn't, it's not the right way to approach things. But yeah, I can keep my spot now for as long as I want and he can keep his spot. It's more just the. He wants to live together and I'm like, I'm not ready.

[Ari Graynor]

Can you can do you have the kind of work life where you can go stay with him for, you know, like a week on, a week off kind of thing?

[Caller]

Yeah, totally, totally. I work from home, so it's easy. And my therapist, she had mentioned doing like a trial run, but even that, I'm like, I know I'm gonna wanna go home.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Yeah, like I know I'm gonna want my space.

[Chelsea Handler]

Have you talked to him about it? Like about your hesitancy?

[Caller]

Yeah, he knows everything. He actually knows. I was asking you guys for advice too and he was like, good, get her advice. And I was like, she's not. She's gonna not agree with what you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Want, but I just think you have to. As women, we really have to listen to ourselves. And sometimes we get swept away in an emotion and a feeling, and we make a decision based on what someone else wants for our relationship. And of course he wants to live with you. Of course he wants to see you every morning when you wake up. But if that's not the type of person you are, and I think this is more and more true for women everywhere, you're going to end up resenting that. You're going to end up feeling crowded, and you may sabotage the relationship. Not definitely, but possibly. So why even risk it if you have a good thing going? 45 minutes is nothing.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

And it's so chic to live apart.

[Ari Graynor]

And it's like, both places can feel like a version of home. And, like, having alone time is so important. Like, I. I feel like that has been, like, the key pillar of my life and healthy relationships has been, like, how much time I need alone and reckoning with that, because for so long, it felt like there was something wrong with me for requiring the amount of alone time I needed. And it, like, has nothing to do with the relationship or bearing on. On. On any. Anything except that, like, it's important autonomy. Alone time is good, and your relationship can flourish within that. So.

[Chelsea Handler]

And then you can just spit it, be like, this is how committed I am to you. I'm gonna keep my apartment because I believe we're gonna go, like, for the long haul, and I want to. I want us to be successful, and I think that's gonna be part of our success.

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

I love the idea that Ari had of, like, even if it's a few days on and a few days off or a week on and a week off, do it part time. But it doesn't have to be like, let's try it for six months sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ari Graynor]

Especially 45 minutes away, you know, and it's like, a week. Yeah. Like, going there for a week, then have a couple days, then he can come there if he can. Like, I don't know. I found that that's worked very well for me. And now this feels like our home together, but also what I can do, how I feel or, like, what I can do for myself when I'm alone and in my, you know, my week off while he's back, it's like, I need that time.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ari Graynor]

Same.

[Caller]

It's like a recharge for sure, and, like, a reset and recenter and the whole thing, for sure. I completely agree. So I guess my question is, though, is, like, what if it becomes a deal breaker, and then I have to.

[Ari Graynor]

Choose between the two.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do you think it will become a deal breaker? I think so.

[Caller]

In the future.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Ari Graynor]

How long have you guys been together?

[Caller]

We're coming up on two years.

[Ari Graynor]

Well, also, I feel like in two years, who knows how you'll feel or how he feels, you know, like, in this moment, especially if maybe it's. You commit to different chunks of time together. So it's thinking about doing, like, a week together and then three days apart and that, like, maybe there's a way to structure some of that time so you both know how you are committed to spending big chunks of time together while also having that time apart. And then, you know, your feelings might change in a few years.

[Chelsea Handler]

Or commit to doing a month together and then teach yourselves both a lesson, because I'm sure by the end of it, you both want fucking three days off. Like, you know what I mean?

[Ari Graynor]

For real.

[Chelsea Handler]

You can be like, sure, let's try. I'll come live with you for one month straight, and then let's discuss it. Let's regroup and see how we both liked that, you know, like, experimentally. But I would definitely trust your gut.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

And if he does make it a deal breaker, call in and do a minisode for couples counseling.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And we'll do couples counseling.

[Caller]

Love that idea.

[Ari Graynor]

Okay, perfect.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

All right. Thanks, Bri.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, Bye, Bri. Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you.

[Ari Graynor]

By the way, do you watch Couples Therapy?

[Chelsea Handler]

I love it. Love it. I love watching therapy. It's the best.

[Ari Graynor]

Me, too. Orna is such a good therapist.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, she really is.

[Ari Graynor]

Watching it the other night.

[Chelsea Handler]

She is. Whenever they talk, whenever we see her personal life, I'm like, no, no, I don't want to see anything about her personal life. Like, she's such a good therapist. I just want to keep her in that little bubble, you know what I mean?

[Ari Graynor]

Totally.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, totally. I'm like, I don't want to know that you have a son. I'm not interested.

[Ari Graynor]

She has a son?

[Chelsea Handler]

I think so.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

I think she has a silers.

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah, don't tell me.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Well, our next question comes from Katherine. I think she needs a little bit of, like, a confidence boost here. So she says. Dear Chelsea, I went through a bit of a hard time a few years ago and just this year started dating again. It's been a roller coaster for sure. I've had some people I've been interested in, dated, slept with, but nothing's panned out. My workplace shares a building with another company. I've had negative experiences in the past dating coworkers and have a strict no coworkers policy for myself. When I first started the job, I noticed a good looking guy at the other company, but never had reason to interact. He introduced himself to me when there was a random fire in the building. And then a couple months later a weird accident led to him talking to me again. We've chatted a few times since recently. He's intentionally brought himself into my orbit and I'm pretty sure he's also interested. My issue is that even though we don't work together, we share an open workspace. Second issue, a different color colleague of mine has proven to be a bit of a gross person when it comes to at work relations. Because my work crush and this colleague associate, I can't help but worry that my crush shares the same kind of locker room talk as this colleague. I pride myself on my reputation at work, so everything in me is screaming not to pursue it. But I don't want to write off my first real crush in four years. Should I give him a chance despite my colleagues bro talk?

[Ari Graynor]

Yes. Yes.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

And this is also Catherine.

[Chelsea Handler]

So Catherine, Hi. What are you doing? What is all of this nonsense? This is all noise. Go after it, get after it. This is the noisiest thing I know. We'll turn the fucking volume down and get down to the basics. You are attracted to someone who is attracted to you just because he has. So I have a news flash for you. Like, you guys you're gonna date are gonna have asshole friends, period. That's the way it goes.

[Caller]

I don't even. I've been talking.

[Chelsea Handler]

Exactly. You don't even know if they're feeling.

[Ari Graynor]

You don't even know.

[Chelsea Handler]

All of this is like supposition. You're not even sure what's happening. And you're built. You're making like 80 different blocks for you to get to this person. That may or may not even be true.

[Ari Graynor]

You can also tell him. I mean, you can also. Like, this is what I love about getting like dating when you're older is like you can also say the things early on where I feel like when you're young, you're so afraid of saying a wrong thing that is like going to make somebody run. And then I feel like when you get older, you're like, let me just say all the things. So like. And then you can decide what you want to do and I'll decide what I want to do. And you can also be like, I'm worried about this, you know, or like, here's a concern of mine and just talking it through. And who knows what he'll say about it.

[Chelsea Handler]

And moreover, what makes you think that they are our friends?

[Caller]

I kind of am not wired for workplace flirtations anymore.

[Chelsea Handler]

No shit.

[Caller]

I've definitely bumbled through those a little bit.

[Chelsea Handler]

I.

[Caller]

And anytime I was like, okay, you know, I can work it in there. He's just like, so deadpan, like, about what's going on in our company. And then I'm just like, okay, well, now's not the time for this kind of thing. And then just. Just the way that he speaks about my colleagues is kind of what's. Hinting that there's really maybe not the best interaction there. It's kind of just a we work in the same environment. I'm going to keep the peace kind of thing. But I also have to be very careful what I say about that because again, I don't know him very well. So maybe he's going to say what I've been saying back to these people.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. We have to give you. You have to put your head in a shampoo BO and wash all of this garbage out. You are just running around in circles in your head. You like this guy, he likes you. Forget everything else. You do not even work together. First of all, I'm not against that either. Workplace romance, it's like, where are adults supposed to meet? They work together. That's where half people meet. So that's silly. That's a silly rule. And all these rules you have are just kind of like you have to work very hard at stripping away all of this noise. And that's gonna be a practice for you, but you can do it.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

I think you should just go ask him out because he's made it clear you don't want to, like, let it go too long. And then he's like, feeling like he.

[Chelsea Handler]

Send him an email. Send him an email and go. Just listen. It seems like to me that you're being very flirtatious. If you want to ask me on a date, let me know and I can respond.

[Caller]

Very straightforward. Gotta work on that.

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah. Or just be like, do you want to get a drink after work or something?

[Caller]

I finished work at 11. He's done at 5:30, like, PM PM.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, well, would you be comfortable writing an email like that? I mean, I know you wouldn't be, but would you do it?

[Caller]

I'M definitely better, like, writing than I am initially. I'm better at interacting with people with words, using, like, email. And then I can once. Because he hasn't really had a chance to see my personality yet because I've been so, like, I have this professional face I have to put on. So I haven't really been able to show my funny side or like the actual me side, which is.

[Chelsea Handler]

And all the voices in your head, you haven't been able to show him that either. I know.

[Caller]

They're just there, you know, they never take a vacation.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I think you should send him an email and just put it out there. Put it out there. You're gonna get the response that you want. And then you can start dealing with all of these other issues that you're creating or let them fall away as you start to get to know him. And then you can get to know if he's like that or if he's like your friend. I'm still confused as to why you think. I don't think you really answered that question. Like, why do you think this guy that you have a crush on is friends with your work colleague?

[Caller]

Because they all. They've all mentioned him before. In some contexts. They're having these interactions that aren't work related. So I just. I kind of just have to assume that maybe there's a friendly interaction outside of the workplace as well, because I don't.

[Chelsea Handler]

A lot of assumptions. Lot of assumptions.

[Ari Graynor]

I think it's like, go see, like, see each other outside. See what the vibe. Because also, you might not even. It's like him. You might not even like him, you know, or he might be the love of your life. You don't know, but you gotta get out of that office to know.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Listen, you have one life to live. One. Okay? So make it fucking count. And work in your best interest. No one is gonna find love for you. You have to find it for you.

[Caller]

Well, they're trying. They're trying. They're failing, but they're trying.

[Ari Graynor]

Who's they?

[Caller]

My friends. They're invested in my love life.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's great. I'm glad they're invested, but you can't rely on other people. You have the person here, so just don't. You need to go and send that email. And I need you to report back to us also.

[Caller]

Of course, 100%.

[Chelsea Handler]

Let us know what happens. Okay, I will.

[Caller]

Absolutely. Thank you very much.

[Ari Graynor]

Also, congrats on having a crush. A crush is so fun.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know. Crushes are the best.

[Caller]

Well, they are at the beginning, not now.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well, you can extend, but you can extend the crush. I mean, the flirtation can keep going and going and going until you go out. And even then, it's just so fun, you know, flirting back and forth, especially over email. That's my favorite.

[Caller]

I just wish it wasn't in a public space that people.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well, you wish a lot of things.

[Caller]

I know I do.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Okay. All right, keep us posted.

[Caller]

I will.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Thank you very much.

[Chelsea Handler]

Bye.

[Ari Graynor]

Bye.

[Chelsea Handler]

Watch. They're gonna get married and have lots of babies.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Of course they are.

[Ari Graynor]

Of course. I really want to find out what happens.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

We will definitely check back in with her in a couple weeks and see what happens.

[Chelsea Handler]

What was her name?

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Katherine. She's a Catherine. Elizabeth, just like me. Oh, and spelled all the right ways. Well, we have one more question, but we could take our little break and then come back.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's a juice. Okay. We'll be right back with Ari Graner.

[T-Mobile Ad]

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[Podcast Advertiser]

Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week for happiness, every night. You need Adam and Eve. Yes. I'm talking about sex toys. It's cool. It's cool. You have earbuds in, right? Adam and Eve, America's most trusted source for adult products, has been making people very happy for over 50 years with thousands of toys for both men and women. Just go to AdamAndEve.com now and enter code IHEART for 50% off. Almost any one item, plus free discreet shipping. That's AdamAndEve.com code IHEART for 50% OFF.

[Chelsea Handler]

A mother's love deserves a gift like no other. Celebrate her love, strength and style with heartfelt jewelry from Pandora. From iconic charms to sparkling necklaces, rings, earrings, and more, there are so many ways to say, thank you, mom. Pandora even has in store engraving so you can treat your mom to a trip to the store and have your pieces engraved together with your own handwriting. So on Mother's Day and every day, tell her how much she means to you with a gift from Pandora. Visit Pandora in store or [e-mail] Every.

[Today Show Announcer]

Morning brings a fresh new energy.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is TODAY with and no matter.

[Today Show Announcer]

What the day, we come to the Today show for all of it.

[Chelsea Handler]

When things are tough, we talk about it. When there's something to figure out, we dig into it. And when there's joy, we celebrate it.

[Today Show Announcer]

Because today is where it's all happening. We get the best start to every morning because we start it together.

[Chelsea Handler]

Watch the Today show with Savannah Guthrie and Craig Melvin, weekdays at 7am on NBC. And we're back to we have one more question. We have one more caller question.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Yes.

[Ari Graynor]

This is so fun. Fun, isn't it?

[Chelsea Handler]

I love it. It's a dream, especially when it's real. It's like sometimes we get some questions and I'm like, what the fuck are they asking me that for? Like, you know, how but some question. I love interpersonal affairs. I love like breaking up or getting finding a crush. That that was one of my favorite topics, like that woman calling in. I love that.

[Ari Graynor]

What to do about a crush.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

More crush questions?

[Ari Graynor]

Yes, My favorite.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Well, this question comes from Sarah. Dear Chelsea, About a year ago my husband and I went away for a few nights. My mother in law stayed at our house to watch our small children sleeping in our bed to stay close to the baby. When I returned, I noticed that my journal, which I keep in my nightstand, had obviously been tampered with. The strap was in a different place than usual. My worksheets from therapy were not where I left them, etc. I was totally shaken. My husband handled it and addressed it with my mother in law. She denied reading it and said she didn't touch it. I had postpartum depression with my second child as well as a recent rocky patch with my husband where I relied heavily on my journal to process. Oh, it makes me sick to my stomach to think of my mother in law reading my most intimate thoughts. I used to enjoy looking back on previous years and memories I've written about. Every year I write a letter to my children on their birthday. I never knew if I was going to give these to them, but it was my most intimate thoughts about motherhood and reflecting on each year with them. These letters were for me alone and possibly one day my children. It makes me very upset thinking she read something that was supposed to be between me and my daughters. I've come to terms with her Denial. And I don't believe I will ever fully know the truth. How do I continue to use journaling as part of my toolbox and staying regulated and. Well, I wrote in this journal every day for four years and since that event, I haven't been able to pick it up again. I really loved this part of my day and it helped my mental health in a big way. It doesn't feel like a safe place anymore. Looking back on past years now makes me angry thinking of her reading those thoughts. I tried to buy a brand new journal and start fresh, but I still have a mental block and can't move forward. Is there any way I can get past this and start using this coping skill that helped me through some dark times? Sarah?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, Absolutely. First of all, you have to start journaling again. This is not your issue. This is your mother in law's issue. She opened your book. You cannot control her. She opened your journal. She invaded your privacy. So it is up to you to take your power back. I can guarantee you she's not gonna do it again after she's been called out. But you have to get a new journal and just start practicing. This is something that is giving you such relief and such comfort that you can go to this place and write in your journal each night and write this beautiful letter to your daughters each year on their birthdays. That is such a beautiful thing to even hear. Like, you've got to keep going and do not let someone else's mistake misstep. Create your own misstep. You know, you keep going and, and do whatever you need to do. And if it doesn't feel right the first couple times, keep doing it. Just keep writing into your journal until you get back to your safe space. What do you think, Ari?

[Ari Graynor]

Yeah. I mean, there. There's nothing more like that. That kind of writing has also been transformative for me and you. You can't give that away to her.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's.

[Ari Graynor]

It's. It's. You can't give that power to her or to that. That's. It's a. That is something to reclaim for yourself. Absolutely. It's a beautiful, beautiful practice. I totally get what a horrible invasion that is and how hard that is, but I feel like it's. It's like when you'll fall off a horse. Like when somebody falls off a horse and they're like, I just have to get back up there so that I'm not afraid to ever do it again. It's like, like, even if the writing in the beginning is like, I Hate this. This feels wrong. I don't want to do this. Like just writing the honesty through it to get to the other side. Because that's for you. You gotta keep that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, girl, don't let your mother in law take you down.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

And I wonder too if there's like a way to upend it and like create a different ritual around it. Like doing it at a different time of day than you used to doing it in a different place. Like maybe you used to write in bed, go to a cozy chair. Like really changing your ritual around it. Maybe it's like sagin, like do something that creates a different energy around it and then. Yes, like start with where you're at. Like, I'm angry that this happened. I'm upset that this happened.

[Chelsea Handler]

But you just also, you have to realize you're holding onto these emotions that are not your fault. These are her. These are her issues, not your issues. She was being nosy. She had no boundaries. That doesn't change who you are. You're choosing to allow her to disrupt this connection you had with yourself and that's on you. You have to choose to move forward and you have to choose to be like, I'm bigger than this and I'm gonna get past this. And yes, I understand you're upset, but don't let her take your power away.

[Ari Graynor]

I also wonder if there's a way of like writing a letter to her that you have no intention of ever giving, but just of a reprocessing of saying all the things out loud about, you know, out loud via writing about how that made you feel, like. Like that. Just to get that out. Just to keep working through that too, to sort of anything that's left over in the mind of like, you made me never want to do this again. I. My trust is gone, you know, whatever that is that you'll never ever give to her, but just as a way of also getting that part of your feeling out of your brain and then.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

Put that letter in your journal and she'll read it.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's right. Thank you. Ari Grayner. Thank you so much for being here today. What a delight.

[Ari Graynor]

Thank you so much for having me. This was like such a joy. I love you and I'm like just so happy I got to be here.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. I hope I see you soon.

[Ari Graynor]

Me too. Okay, back at Jenny and Jason's. Okay. Bye you guys.

[Chelsea Handler]

Bye. Bye. Thanks. Do do do do do do. Drum roll. Catherine, please. Chelsea Handler Abroad. Abroad is my European tour, which I just announced yesterday. Tickets go on sale tomorrow or today or there's a pre sale code Chelsea. So I'm coming to obviously find a husband abroad. I need to get the health out of this fucking country and it's not as easy as you think. So I'm coming to Reykjavik, I'm coming to Dublin, I'm coming to the uk. I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June. I'm coming to Oslo, Stockholm, to Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow, New Zurich, Vienna. I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin, Barcelona and Lisbon. I'm coming abroad is abroad.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

That sounds like fun. I'm gonna go see you abroad.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know I want to go see me abroad. And there I'll be there I'll be excellent. Okay, all upcoming Vegas dates, March 21st, April 18th, July 5th, August 30th, November 1st and 29th at the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas. My book tour. I'll have what she's having means I am doing book events only book events. Northvale, NJ on February 24, February 25 at the 92nd Street Y. February 26, Brookline Booksmith. February 27, Cincinnati, Ohio. February 28, the H Foundation in Chicago and Barnes and Noble at the Grove in Los Angeles. I'm March 1st and then Seattle, Washington on March 3rd, Elliot Bay and I'll see you guys all there.

[Chelsea Handler's Guest]

If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an [e-mail] and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Deckert executive producer Kathryn Law. And be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com.

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[Chelsea Handler]

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