Ep 1 Onyx Storm: Initial Thoughts & Reactions

Summary

Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast – Ep 1: Onyx Storm Initial Thoughts & Reactions

Release Date: February 3, 2025

Welcome to the inaugural episode of Season 2 of the Dear Fantasy Reader podcast! Hosts Hannah, Karly, and Kinsey delve into Rebecca Yarros’ latest installment in the Empyrean series, Onyx Storm. This episode captures their initial thoughts, emotional reactions, and critical analyses of the book's key elements.

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1. Overall Impressions

The trio begins by sharing their overarching feelings about Onyx Storm, highlighting both their enthusiasm and the challenges they faced while reading.

• Carly expresses deep satisfaction, stating, “I loved it. It was essentially exactly what I expected for the middle book” [04:55]. She praises the shift in scenery and character development, particularly focusing on Riddick and the evolution of Zaden.

• Kinsey admits initial struggles with the book’s pacing and density, mentioning, “I had a little bit of a hard time getting into it” [05:00]. Despite these challenges, she acknowledges the emotional depth of the story, noting, “I have not had a good cry like this in a while” [06:17].

• Hannah reflects on her evolving perspective after processing the book’s events, stating, “After having a few days to process, I'm going to start with the things that never changed for me” [06:46]. She appreciates the world-building and magic systems introduced in Onyx Storm.

2. Emotional Impact and Character Development

The hosts delve into the emotional resonance of the book, discussing pivotal moments that elicited strong reactions.

• Carly shares her connection to the characters, saying, “Fourth Wing stole my heart, Iron Flame fed my mind, and Onyx Storm shattered my soul” [12:03]. She emphasizes how Onyx Storm deepened her emotional investment in the series.

• Kinsey recounts her emotional turmoil, particularly concerning Andarna’s actions, confessing, “I have cried, but it was like a tear. I wasn't, like, sobbing” [06:28]. She highlights the traumatic events that heightened her emotional experience.

• Hannah grapples with the book’s lack of hopefulness and the off-page marriage scene, expressing her distress: “I just like, oh, my God, why would she do this so early?” [06:46]. She appreciates the depth of Violet and Zaden’s relationship but struggles with the narrative choices affecting her emotional engagement.

3. Key Plot Points and Theories

The discussion shifts to specific plot points, revealing their theories and interpretations based on the book’s content.

• Wards and Signets:

  • Carly thrilled about her correct theory regarding the wards in Orisha, stating, “I was so excited when I was right” [14:23]. She anticipated their significance in the magic system.
  • Kinsey discusses the revelation of second signets, expressing vindication: “they have second signets and I'm super happy about it” [19:08].

• Character Analysis:

  • Zaden: Both hosts discuss Zaden’s character development. Hannah notes, “Zaden... played this book” [32:10], while Kinsey admits initial suspicion but grows to appreciate his depth and humor.
  • Riddick: Carly lauds Riddick as the standout character, saying, “he stole every scene he was in” [04:55]. Kinsey echoes this sentiment, describing him as her favorite character in the book [31:04].
  • Theophany and Betrayal: The hosts dissect Theophany’s betrayal, analyzing how it aligns with their theories about Venon infiltrations and the presence of an informant: “they have an informant” [82:28].

• Magic Systems and Lore:

  • Hannah is particularly excited about the exploration of new magic systems, remarking, “I cannot wait to get into that” [06:27].
  • Carly and Kinsey discuss the complexities and implications of different magic systems introduced in Onyx Storm, anticipating deeper dives in future episodes.

4. Emotional Highs and Lows

The episode captures the hosts’ emotional rollercoaster as they navigate the book’s intense moments.

• Major Losses and Grief:

  • Kinsey shares her devastation over Aunt Darna breaking the bond, admitting, “I sobbed for two chapters” [66:07]. This moment stands out as her least favorite scene in the series.
  • Carly recounts her profound sadness during Quinn’s death, stating, “I cried during this scene” [78:05]. She praises the emotional depth Rebecca Yarros achieved in these scenes.

• Hope and Despair:

  • Hannah struggles with the book’s ending, particularly the off-page marriage and the lack of immediate hope, saying, “I really hate it” [86:27]. However, she clings to the possibility of future hope through Violet’s dreamwalking abilities.
  • Carly remains optimistic about the book’s ending, appreciating the emotional authenticity: “I loved the ending because I feel like I felt every single emotion there was” [87:05].

5. Favorite Moments and Quotes

The hosts highlight their favorite moments and memorable quotes from Onyx Storm.

• Kinsey’s Favorites:

  • Riddick’s playful pranks: “He was getting soaked and he's like, no, these are my only boots” [99:18].
  • Auric’s linguistic prowess: “He was perfectly fluent in every single language” [99:38].

• Hannah’s Favorites:

  • Zaden’s carefree arrival on Devarelli isle: “he was so carefree to the point of asking Dain about their childhood together” [103:07].
  • Emotional exchanges reflecting deep connections between characters.

• Carly’s Favorites:

  • Riddick’s humor and depth: “There is more to him than just being the uplifting character” [32:56].
  • Significant quotes that encapsulate the characters’ relationships and struggles.

Notable Quotes:

• Carly [101:40]: “Don’t dehydrate on my account. It takes more than the weather to fell me. Wish I could say the same for you.”
• Hannah [102:07]: “Is it just me or does my pillow smell like you? Signed X.”
• Kinsey [103:17]: “Don’t shut up. Yeah, this book was traumatic.”

6. Future Episodes and Deep Dives

The hosts outline their plans for upcoming episodes, promising deeper analyses and explorations of the book’s intricate details.

• Breaking Down the Ending: A dedicated episode to dissect and explain the climactic chapters of Onyx Storm, addressing confusion and unraveling plot twists.

• Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive: An extensive series focusing on each chapter of Onyx Storm, uncovering easter eggs, theories, and lore embedded within the narrative.

• Theories and Speculations: Future episodes will delve into unresolved questions and fan theories, offering educated guesses and interpretations based on Rebecca Yarros’ storytelling.

7. Community Engagement and Support

The podcast concludes with appreciation for their Patreon supporters and encourages new listeners to join their community.

• Patreon Perks: Exclusive ad-free episodes, early access to content, and special resources like recaps and annotations.

• Call to Action: Listeners are encouraged to subscribe, leave reviews, and join their Discord group for ongoing discussions and theory exchanges.

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Final Thoughts

In this heartfelt and comprehensive initial episode, Dear Fantasy Reader sets the tone for an engaging Season 2 dedicated to Onyx Storm. The hosts' blend of emotional honesty, critical analysis, and shared passion for the Empyrean series creates a relatable and insightful listening experience for both longtime fans and newcomers alike.

Stay tuned for upcoming episodes where Hannah, Carly, and Kinsey will continue their deep exploration of Onyx Storm, providing clarity, theories, and a community-driven discussion to enhance your reading journey.

Transcript

[Kinsey]

Foreign.

[Hannah]

Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey.

[Carly]

And I'm Carly.

[Hannah]

Join us as we take flight into the world of the Empyrean series, diving deep into Onyx Storm, breaking down characters, scenes, foreshadowing and lore, fangirling over shadow daddies, building theories as we go, and more.

[Carly]

With that content warning and spoiler alert, we will be discussing anything and everything Empyrean series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarros has given us. So if you haven't read 4th Wing, Iron Flame and Onyx Storm in its entirety, go do that and we will be here waiting when you are done.

[Kinsey]

Also, due to the nature of these books, this podcast is rated R in content and language.

[Hannah]

As Rebecca Yarros says, readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please take note and prepare to face the storm. We have dragons to ride. I like Ms. Best Guy at the War College, but I also love that.

[Carly]

I love the new intro. Love it.

[Hannah]

Welcome to our Onyx Storm Initial Thoughts and Reactions episode. We are going to cover all of our overarching thoughts on the biggest plot points and our favorite moments and quotes right here right now.

[Carly]

Because there is so much to unpack and so many people have questions about it, we will be releasing a separate episode, breaking down and explaining the ending of Onyx Storm that will come out following this one.

[Kinsey]

We will also be starting our Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive season of Onyx Storms soon where we will get much deeper into the Easter eggs and theories of it all. So keep in mind these are just our first thoughts.

[Hannah]

Absolutely. So Quick note Podcast update. You may have noticed that we now have ads at the beginning and end of all of our episodes. That is how we help cover the operating costs of the podcast. But if you would rather listen without interruptions, we do offer ad free episodes exclusively on our Patreon for our Dragon Rider and Feathertail tiers where you can choose between audio only or full video if you'd prefer to watch. We are now audio only on YouTube so Patreon is the only place to catch all of the chaotic facial expressions I make when CarlyOrkinsee drops one of their jaw dropping theories. Or I just turn red from fangirling a little too hard over Sadie.

[Carly]

I do save my craziest theories out of the notes just so I can surprise you with them.

[Hannah]

I love that I can be of service with my facial expressions.

[Carly]

It's my favorite part.

[Hannah]

Well if you don't want to miss out. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so we have been dying to record this episode. We have so, so much to discuss.

[Kinsey]

Yes. I am so excited to finally discuss our initial reactions with everyone. Hannah and I did get a head start with fangirling this past weekend on a reading retreat. Shout out to book a break for hosting us. We had so much fun reading Onyx Storm with other fans. So it was like a mini post Onyx Storm group therapy session, which is.

[Hannah]

Basically what this episode is going to be, pretty much. So without further ado, let's dive right in, starting with our overall thoughts and feelings. And there are so many of those about this book. Carly, what did you think about Onyx Storm?

[Carly]

I loved it. It was essentially exactly what I expected for middle book. I wanted a change of scenery. We got that Violet going on that adventure through the isles because I needed a change of scenery from the college. I was really looking forward to that. It's exactly what we got. It was what I was hoping for. I was absolutely living for Riddick in this book. He was everything. He stole every scene he was in. I could not have appreciated him more. And this was my favorite evolution of Xaden yet. So I love this book. I loved everything about it. I loved the emotions. I loved getting my heart ripped out multiple times because I trust Rebecca Yarros to stitch it back together. I have 100% confidence in that. So I love the anguish. I'm here for it. And if you couldn't tell by all the theories we dropped in my theories episode, I feel like all of them are just about ways to traumatize Violet more. So I felt like this was just payback to me as the reader.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

What about you, Kinsey?

[Kinsey]

So this book, I did have a little bit of a hard time getting into it. First I had really, really high and when I read the book, I was like, I'm gonna read it in one sitting. No sleep allowed. I can't sleep until it's done because I didn't want to get any spoilers. But being sleep deprived and rushing through it was not the choice. The pacing was so much different from Fourth Wing and Iron Flame. And I think that's something that was really hard for me at first because I just love Fourth Wing so much. And it went from being character driven to being more plot driven. And I just wasn't catching as many little details because I so sleep deprived. I also felt like Zaden. It's funny that you mentioned that he was your favorite in this book because I felt like he was a little out of character in this one. But I loved Riddick. I loved Dain. There were a lot of characters that I thought did really, really well in this book. And even though it wasn't my favorite, it made me the most emotional. I have not had a good cry like this in a while. And Fourth Wing and Iron Flame did not make me sob. I did not sob when Le Liam died. So she got me good three times.

[Carly]

I feel like that's what you deserve for not crying when Liam died.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I was about to say the same thing.

[Kinsey]

I cried, but it was like a tear. I wasn't, like, sobbing.

[Hannah]

Oh, I sobbing.

[Carly]

So I sobbed.

[Kinsey]

But, yeah, no, I was definitely sobbing in this one. So it took me, like, a while to really get into it, and then I got confused halfway through. But around the 40% mark, I was just like, oh, my God, we are going. And I reread the last few chapters, and I'm like, oh, okay, it makes sense.

[Hannah]

It's dense. Like, that's why I also thought I'm a slower reader. So I was like, oh, it'll take me two full days, like, having off to read this. No, no. It is dense. It is emotional. I'm a Zaden girly. Y'all know this. We all know this. I'm in between both of you. It's my favorite iteration of Zaden, but also a little out of character, but not out of character, per se. Venon. Yeah, he was going through a lot. Yeah, he was. My feelings about this book have changed quite a bit. After having a few days to process, I'm going to start with the things that never changed for me. I loved it for a third book. It was a third book that was inevitably going to leave way more questions than give as many answers as. But it still did give a lot of answers and just overarchingly a lot of information, which is what made it so dense. I loved the world building the Easter eggs, the traveling to the isles. I as well, was ready to get out of our, like, Arisha Bazghayev circle that we just kept going, flying back and forth between. I love that we also got a lot more information about the magic systems because apparently there's different for different things, and I think that that's fascinating. I cannot wait to get into that. The more get through this season. It was all everything I loved about fantasy. I really also enjoyed the growth in communication from Zayden and Violet as well, even though the ending absolutely wrecked me. That is not all I have to say about that, that is not I will save the specifics for later, but what we got to see from a lot of the side characters in this book added so much more to the experience and the story. For me. I feel like there was a lot to fit into this book, but think of all that information, how dense it was and we got character development for like I guess I said I wouldn't go to specifics, but like specifically Riddick, right? And then the POVs which we're going to get to. I love that she was able to fit all of that in onto the end specifically, which is what has shifted a lot of my experience with it because up until the end I was like gung ho. This is such a phenomenal book. And I still agree with that, but for a combination of reasons. First and truthfully, I felt a lot of hopelessness there through the latter quarter of the book where failure after failure, which is not usually like what I enjoy in my fantasy books, I want to feel like I can conquer the world. So I feel like I I didn't really set myself up for success knowing that it was the third book out of five. Right. And that it wasn't necessarily going to end up like super duper hopeful. But I was still never, never did I imagine like the extent of hopelessness that I would feel there at the end. I will say Carly came in clutch right after I finished and so kindly explained to me. And Rebecca has said this also in so many words, but the characters have to hit rock bottom to be able to bring them back up for a high. And Rebecca also said she wanted us to walk away with a sense of hope. I don't see how she felt like we would, but I'm telling myself that that indicates there is and so I feel a little bit better about it. The other reason that I wasn't initially crazy about the end is the off page marriage scene, which we will get to later in the episode, but I will say just keeping that general after some introspection and looking at how much I loved everything else. Onyx Storm is actually my second favorite in the series and it would be my first. But nothing can top the experience that Fourth Wing was and the sense of falling in love with both all of the characters, but also Zaden through Violet, except for probably a happily ever after in book five. So again I think I was just a little ahead of myself and wasn't setting realistic expectations. But now I am dying for book four, so that's my spiel. I had A lot to say.

[Carly]

I'm so glad I could be your emotional support reader, Hannah. I am. I will always be that for you and for anybody. Reach out if you need me. I'm happy to help you reframe a book if that's what you feel like you need. I have a really hard time ranking books. Like, I don't really love the star system. I don't think it's an accurate representation of how feel about books. But what I've been telling people is that Fourth Wing stole my heart, Iron Flame fed my mind, and Onyx Storm shattered my soul, and that's what I.

[Hannah]

Would want in the series.

[Kinsey]

That's the perfect way to describe that.

[Carly]

Yeah. I don't have, like, a real rank for them, but that's how I would describe them. And that's exactly what I would want for each book. Like, I would want the first book to absolutely just steal my heart, make me fall in love with it. Yeah. The second book, I want it to, like, feed the obsession. And the third book, I want it to absolutely break me. So I'm invested for the rest of the series. So stole my heart, penned my mind, shattered my soul. That's how I'm describing them.

[Hannah]

Which, to be fair, I am not a shatter my soul book girly. I'm a steal my heart book girly. So if I had known, like, if I just set that expectation for myself. So what do you think a book 4 would do? Not to get too ahead, but I'm curious on your little. You've got a thing going here.

[Carly]

I think book four is where we are really gonna see Violet's rage. I think we're gonna see her furious at Imogen, and so she asked for it, literally. I want to feel both empowered and deeply concerned for how the series is gonna be, because you have to remember into bookboard. We're getting another crazy cliffhanger. Rebecca Yarce loves cliffhangers. She loves them. She's gonna give us another cliffhanger.

[Hannah]

So I'm just hoping that it has, like, slightly more hope to it.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

No. Not knowing Rebecca, maybe I just. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong author for my needs, apparently.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I think we're gonna get the plot twist of all plot twists of book four. So that's what I'm expecting for the ending.

[Kinsey]

Maximum trauma.

[Carly]

Yeah, maybe that's what my tagline for. It'll be maximum trauma.

[Kinsey]

That's what I'm expecting.

[Carly]

But. Yeah, but that's so far for those three. That's how I've Been explaining it to people. I'm like, I don't love ranking books. I don't love star system. It's not a good way for me to explain how a book is fully capture.

[Hannah]

Yeah. It also vibes. Yeah, do a lot.

[Carly]

It really just doesn't. So that's how I've been explaining it. And I think it's the way I. It captures it the best for me.

[Hannah]

Now we are going to walk through the major plot points and revelations, starting with Carly's wards.

[Carly]

I was so excited for this when I read. I think It's a Chapter 7 epigraph, and it talks about the fact that the wards in Orisha were specifically designed to allow the Griffin flyers to wield. I have had that theory for months. I had people come after me for that theory. And I was so excited when I was right. And the best part was I texted Hannah and Kinsey. I texted in the group chat. I was like, let me know when you get to the Chapter 7 epigraph. It was right then that Hannah was recording her reaction to the chapter seven epigraph.

[Hannah]

I literally was reading it. I'll put this up on our Patreon, maybe even our Instagram. But I was reading it and I said, oh, my God, Carly was right. And I look at the camera, like an office moment, and I see the notification for the text come up. And I read it and it says, let me know when you read the chapter seven. I forgot. And I was like, oh, my God, the timing. What is going on? That was fancy. So it was really cool.

[Carly]

Yeah. That whole moment just felt perfect. Like, I read it and then you reading it and getting the text right then it was just perfect. And the stars felt aligned and everything with that scene in the book of them fixing the wards and. Or changing the wards and all of that. I just. I loved that Violet was done fucking around and was just like, I'm not doing things by their rules anymore. I'm doing them by mine, and I am here for it.

[Kinsey]

And she made sure to set it up so she was fully pardoned. So she's like, I'm gonna fuck everything up. And then you can't even cry about.

[Hannah]

Was so bad. That was pretty badass. That was really cool. It took me a second to catch up to her logic there. And I was like, oh, my God. They pardoned. Oh, my God. Yeah, those are one of those. Just like. That is a perfect example of what happened through this whole book. There's so many of those little oh, my God moments that it was Kind of overstimulating at times, but that's what we love. It's Easter eggs galore, essentially. All right, I've been waiting to talk about this one, just to rub it in as deeply as I can. Okay. Garrick is a distance wielder, and I called that shit. But you know what? I backed off a little bit on it because I really thought one, that him being a size wielder. Is that what you'd call it? A size. Yeah, a size builder would be really cool. It also made as much sense for, like, the only evidence that I really had to give that he was a distance builder, which is Rebecca's Island Interviews reference. But I have learned my lessons, and I will no longer allow you to. To bully me into changing my theories.

[Carly]

I'll take that challenge every day.

[Hannah]

I don't know. I am very easily persuaded.

[Kinsey]

And it was. Yeah, it was, like, hard for me to be like, yeah, we were right about two signets for the marked ones, because at the same time, I was so mad about him being a distance wielder. I was like.

[Hannah]

Because of Zaden. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I was like, zaden lied again. And so I was just pissed off at that.

[Hannah]

If you don't know what she's referencing. Back in Iron Flame, Violet asks him if he would be a distance wielder or if he is. This is the second signet, and he says, no, there hasn't been one in centuries. And as you've both put it, he didn't have to word it like that. He could have just said, no.

[Carly]

It was such an unnecessary lie. It was so odd.

[Kinsey]

And I was like, we're really starting the book this way with a lie again.

[Hannah]

I wonder if it was a writing technique for Rebecca to let us know she could have done it differently, that it was another rare signet. But, yeah, it did make him into a liar. Granted, Violet was super understanding about it. He was like, yeah, it was not my secret to tell. And she was like, oh, sure. And then they just never talked about it again.

[Carly]

Well, and I think that's something she learned from last year, too, of having secrets that weren't hers to tell. And so I like that. That of her evolution of being more understanding with things like that, because that is important, especially given the situation that they're all in, where information can get you killed.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Which she definitely came around to that in this book, eh? Yeah, to the extreme. Yeah, to the full extreme at the end there about information getting killed.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

All right, we'll come back to that one. The marked One's second signants.

[Carly]

I have never been so vindicated with a theory because the way people came after me for saying that the marked ones have second signets, I was absolutely convinced. And the amount of people that came after me and said no, Rebecca Yarros confirmed that that was an editing mistake.

[Hannah]

Which we could never find a source for, ever.

[Carly]

Ever. I have the amount of hours of interviews I have watched, and I was like, I can't find a source for this. And I kept telling people, like, if you have that interview, send it to me. And no one ever did. But yet people were still.

[Hannah]

It was a word of mouth thing. I don't know where it started.

[Carly]

But I'm here to tell you they have second signets and I'm super happy about it.

[Kinsey]

All right? The first moment that made me cry the fake out. With Taryn's death, I lost my shit. And I'm the biggest one out there saying, taran's gonna die, Taryn's gonna die. He's give us maximum trauma. He's gonna die. Prepare now. But I just was not expecting it to happen so soon. So I started, like, panic crying. And like, in my video, because I was recording my reactions, I was like, oh, my God, this cannot be happening already. Because she's like, the bond's gone. I'm like, what? Ms. Ma'am? And then when I kept reading, I was like, oh, my God, Violet, you're so dramatic. He's just unconscious. Like, he's fine.

[Hannah]

He's fine. First of all. Okay, so hang on, let's back up a second. I agree. I sobbed like a fucking baby. But you know what? I kept thinking? It's way too early in the book. Why would she do it this early? Yeah, that can't be possible. Until I read that the bond went dark. Oh, are you kidding?

[Kinsey]

That set it up.

[Hannah]

That is. She knew. She knew. She was like, oh, they're not going to believe this. And she did that on purpose. I still, one, don't understand the significance of it. I feel like we should come back to that. And then two, your dragon, your, like, massive dragon just knocks and conscious. You don't have a ball. Like, of course she was freaking out. We were freaking out with her. What do you mean she was being dramatic? We were being more dramatic than that.

[Kinsey]

She was dead. And I'm like, can't you tell? That is a lie.

[Hannah]

I didn't believe her. Didn't they say that, like, she didn't feel him breathing at first?

[Carly]

I believe so, yeah.

[Hannah]

No, that was like I thought he was done for. I was fucked up over it.

[Kinsey]

Yep.

[Carly]

So when I read the part where she yells for Taryn and like, she says she can't feel the bond, you want to know what happened? For me, that was the moment that my alarm went off because the Target exclusive edition was being released and I had to go log into Target to try to order the book, which took an hour. Yep.

[Hannah]

You stopped.

[Carly]

I had to stop reading in that moment.

[Hannah]

That's more self control than I.

[Carly]

For an hour while I dealt with Target, which I will.

[Hannah]

So in your mind, he was dead for an hour.

[Carly]

I wasn't sure. I was like, is he alive? I don't know. I assumed he was based just on where we were in the book. But I was like, that is the moment when I had to stop reading and deal with Target and I will never forgive them for that bungled release ever.

[Kinsey]

That was the worst. That was such a waste of time. I wasted like four hours of my day, like an hour on the computer and then three hours, like at the store.

[Hannah]

So when you finally came back to reading it, what was your reaction?

[Carly]

I think in that moment. Cause like, Theophany calls Garak a walker in that moment. And I was like, oh, he's the distance wielder. Like, the second she called him a walker, I was like, oh, he's a distance wielder. And there's that moment where she's stuck to Taryn and he's like, unbuckle yourself and I'll catch you. And she's like, if you drop me. And she says something. And I just remember being surprised how much these moments, these really intense moments, still had these really funny lines that were making me laugh even when I was freaking out. So I was really impressed by that, honestly. Cause as much as I cried in this book, I laughed more. I laughed so much in this book.

[Hannah]

I laughed a lot. But I definitely cried a lot more.

[Carly]

I definitely laughed more. I liked that moment. But I have some other things about that. But we'll talk about it when we get to Theophany.

[Hannah]

Perfect. And I guess just to make sure I tie up the loose end that I mentioned earlier, it felt like a strange thing to find out that the dragons should just be knocked out like that. But I guess that the reason was because Taryn would not have allowed Theophany to live and talk that long, all things considered, if he was. So maybe that's like the reason that that fiasco happened.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. And I mean, like he was literally in a tornado and crashed. Like, I Think it's a pretty valid response.

[Hannah]

I knew immediately that that was theophany. Yeah, that was like, what, just a fucking tornado?

[Carly]

Yeah. That's all the thoughts I have for theophany. I will talk about when we get there. Yeah, I'll put a pin in it.

[Hannah]

My bad, my bad.

[Carly]

No worries.

[Hannah]

All right. So this is, like, not really a topic so much as it's Jack, which he had so little and so large of a role in this book. There's not a ton to say about him. Except for I thought that it was really interesting and quite surprising that we didn't get a lot of the things. A couple of the things I should say that Rebecca Yarros mentioned in interviews that she was setting up for us to get, including background on Jack, even though Jack specifically prompted Violet to ask him when he turned. And then she didn't, because I was like, oh, my God, this is the moment that she was referencing Rebecca. And then Violet just, like, went about her day. Didn't ever ask. And I just wanted to comment on that because I imagine you've likely listened to those episodes if you're listening to this one. And I just. The only thing I can think is that those things were cut during editing because she filmed all of those Q and A's before she submitted her final draft. So I feel like it makes sense that some things just get cut for the sake of, you know. What is that thing you said, Carly?

[Carly]

Kill your darlings.

[Hannah]

Kill your darlings. So I do think it's still coming. She wouldn't have brought it up in a Q and A if it wasn't significant specifically. What I'm referencing is the fact that we will find a reason to empathize with Jack.

[Carly]

Yeah. I'm not surprised we didn't get that in this book. I am surprised for a character that caused so much chaos in the last book that we didn't get a little more. Like, he was so insignificant in this book. It felt like. And I'm not saying that there weren't, like, Easter eggs around Jack and things of that nature that we can get into in other episodes, but so little page time for a character that caused so. So much chaos in the last book was interesting to me.

[Hannah]

I agree. And it's especially considering that he was set up at the beginning with the Venon trying to break him out and in the excerpt, which is the curated piece that she chose to put out about the book, that they would be trying to break him out when we later find out it was for the sake of killing him just so he couldn't spill whatever it is he knows. And I'm sure that that right there is the big reveal that we're waiting on, but I just thought that was interesting and I wanted to note it. I do want to say we were right, that he was never going to fucking die in this book. Which, you know, if I had to be wrong about any of it, I would have preferred that. But if I had to have been right about any of them. You already know what I'm gonna say. We got Halden as an ex of Violet's.

[Carly]

I'm so glad you got that, Hannah, because I know how much you wanted it.

[Hannah]

I was cheering both. Both about Garrick's signet and Halden, long before we got confirmation. On the page, there kept being, like, small little foreshadowing moments, Easter eggs that clued us into that. And I was, like, screaming to my partner who was reading it in the other room, like, I'm telling you, I was right about Garrick. Oh, my God, Halden is going to be your ex. It was so funny. And I just know that I was, like, insufferable. But I will say I was not expecting him to be that fucking annoying. Like, yeah, I knew I was going to like him because, like, zaddy. But damn, I think he was exactly.

[Carly]

What I was expecting personally, just because of his position in the royal hierarchy.

[Hannah]

Fair.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

And how much Aric seemed to not like his own brother. So I was expecting that. I know. I was like. I was the one that was like, maybe it's going to be Arc that's the ex and not Halden. And the only reason that I had said was, like, I was really concerned about a potential age gap. I was very concerned about that.

[Hannah]

And what did you say?

[Carly]

I said, if he's a twin, I could see it working. And he was. And so I'm totally good with it. I will say I think it's a little weird that in an interview, Rebecca Yarrow said that someone asked her, like, oh, if it wasn't Dane or Zaden, who would you write for Violet? And she said, arryk, like, who would you write as them being together? And I'm like, that's a little odd.

[Hannah]

Like, maybe it's past because they are clearly not compatible with present day.

[Carly]

That's true. It just still seemed a little odd to me. But I'm totally good with it after this book.

[Hannah]

Arik can get it. Arik can get it. Oh, my gosh. I think that was one of the first things I said on our FaceTime right after we finished was like, I freaking love Arik. Yeah, like his. Long before we found out. Okay, I'm getting way ahead of myself, but I love him.

[Carly]

Yeah, I did too.

[Hannah]

All right. Theophany, our silver haired villain.

[Carly]

Yes.

[Kinsey]

I'm surprised she died so soon. I was expecting her to stick around.

[Carly]

Yeah. Especially given what theophany means. It means like a presence of God or something along those lines. I don't have the exact definition in front of me, but I was really surprised. I thought she was gonna be bigger just based on what her name meant.

[Hannah]

I thought for a while there she was gonna be one of the first six. And then I was like, oh, no, she died. That doesn't fit anymore.

[Carly]

I mean, she still could, I guess. Like, she could have killed one. She'll find out later she killed one of the first six. But yeah, I will say though, Hannah, I was right there with you on the storm w when I saw the tornado because it didn't make any sense to me. And I might be getting just way too technical about this, but my mom is from Oklahoma and has been in several tornadoes. And so I grew up hearing stories about it. They are so loud that when that scene happened, I was like, how on earth would a tornado sneak up on them? I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. They're not silent.

[Hannah]

It did not feel like a natural. No way. Was it described that way.

[Carly]

No. And I was like, this cannot. I was like, there's no way. And so I was right there with you though, with her being a storm wielder pretty early on because I was like, that doesn't really make sense.

[Hannah]

And I actually think, well, there's so much about her that she was utilized for, like the fact that she also has silver hair. And then we get this whole reveal with being a priestess and dedicated and touched and all the things. We will break down way more in our Deep Dive episodes. But I was very one that was left field. Not at all what I expected to be. The reasoning for the silver hair. We were super off, but we also didn't have a lot of information about it, which we'll get to in our Gods section.

[Carly]

Never could have gotten there to the information we had so far.

[Hannah]

Never. But then that also she was used to reveal that riders signets are counters to Venon signets. And the fact that Violet's mom was the counter to her, which is really cool. World building. I actually. Especially the magic systems. I'm like eating this shit up. But I Just want to note that the first assumption is that Violet might have been the counter to her, but she was a storm wielder. If this applies to all signets, then we would see a lightning wielder Venon, which is maybe they're. Hopefully they're not as skilled and well versed as Theophany was.

[Carly]

And we can get into this later. But I do wonder, too, if it'll present as a lightning wielder, because remember, she's wielding pure power, so we don't know what Will might say.

[Hannah]

That's right. Oh, my gosh. I'm the one that always preaches about that, and I didn't even think about it. Oh, my gosh.

[Carly]

So who knows? Who knows what we could see it as? But that's for a theories episode.

[Hannah]

And I'll put the pin in the other thing I want to say. All right, so any other last thoughts on Theophany?

[Kinsey]

Nope.

[Hannah]

I just thought she was cool. I'm not going to lie. I, like, really thought she was going to. She was like, yeah, I'll keep you alive. I'll give you the answers. Just. Literally, just come be under me like, you're going to turn Venom eventually.

[Carly]

Come be my friend.

[Hannah]

I thought she was pretty cool, but then she died before she got to actually give the answers, which gone too soon. I know, but then it's like, what are the answers she actually was talking about? Because was she really ever gonna help Violet cure Zaden?

[Carly]

No.

[Hannah]

And if not, then what answers? Or, like, what questions is Violet actually asking that she was gonna answer anyways? This whole book is just like a puzzle.

[Carly]

Yep.

[Hannah]

Onto more fun topics. Riddick.

[Kinsey]

He was the star of the show.

[Hannah]

He carried this book.

[Kinsey]

Yes. I'll admit there are points where I was a little suspicious of Riddick. I was like, still am. Yeah, maybe just a little suspicious still. But he made me laugh so many times throughout this book. And he just absolutely made Onyx Storm for me. Like, he was easily the best character for sure.

[Hannah]

Oh, absolutely. Well, the most developed in a carefree way. Even though what I loved about him in this book is he is the humor character. But there's so much more depth there that I'd said, like, what other. I think in our Theories episode, I had said, like, he's the humor, but what else does he bring to the team that's going to make us emotional? Rebecca must have precognition and knew I was going to say that and said, let me prove you wrong. There is more to him than just being the uplifting character. That is always trying to bring everybody, you know, make everybody feel better. But he was serious, and he was actually right, like, in protecting his friend, making her draw a line as much as, like, there's no line for me, for Zaddy. I get it.

[Carly]

You know, I love that.

[Hannah]

I love y'all's face. He's deep, cute. The way y'all react to me being dramatic is incredible.

[Carly]

I love seeing him be competent and communicative and just so well rounded, and he was so funny, and he's always been funny, but I just. I absolutely loved him in this book, and I cannot wait for more of his backstory and why we don't have more of his backstory already. But, yeah, Riddick, for me, was. He was everything in this book. I loved him.

[Hannah]

I need to know what his Taylor Swift song is for Rebecca.

[Carly]

We have it.

[Hannah]

Do we? What is it?

[Carly]

Mm. Mirrorball. Mirror ball. That's right.

[Hannah]

Oh, and that makes so much. All right.

[Carly]

Yep.

[Hannah]

Moving on. Moving on.

[Carly]

Another day.

[Kinsey]

Yep.

[Hannah]

Dane, I feel I have the responsibility.

[Kinsey]

Do you have your apology letter written out?

[Hannah]

It is signed with love. I loved Dane in this book. I really thought that I. And I can't speak for the rest of the fandom, There seems to be some mixed reactions with this, but I really thought I needed slightly more of a direct finalization of redemption arc, some sort of act, which we sort of got in the latter part with Sloane. But I didn't even need to wait that long. It did not take me that long. I clearly just needed him to not be annoying, and he was not. He was not annoying in the slightest. No. I enjoyed every time he was on the page. In fact, I was like, oh, my God, Dain's gonna. It's gonna be a good scene. Like. Like, that's crazy. I was never, like, full on hate. I did not like him after my first read, but I went straight into iron flame. So I got quick redemption for him. But I'd never, like, in a reread of 4th Wing. He's still annoying as fuck. No. Rebecca said, not happening. This man has. He's grown matured. Eyes here, you know, like, oh, okay, okay. I saw someone say that they didn't expect Dane to be their personal enemies to lovers, and that is exactly how I feel.

[Carly]

I saw another comment that said something similar where it was like, the real enemies to lovers of the series was Dain and the readers.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Carly]

I was like, yes.

[Kinsey]

I'm just saying. I have been a Dane defender for ages, and this was very, very validating for me. I have endured. I'm not exaggerating. Hundreds of mean comments online because I like Dane. And now I'm like, you guys are eating your words, and I knew that you would.

[Hannah]

You did say. You did say we would.

[Kinsey]

I did. And honestly, he was my second favorite in this book. I thought he was amazing. He was funny. I loved that he was along for the quest squad. I don't know. It was just. He was just so good.

[Hannah]

He's my third.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. And I would also like to say, I have been saying since Iron Flame, I could either see him pairing up with Kat or I could see him pairing up with Sloane. And oh, my gosh, I love how she's setting it up. I am all aboard the slain train. I am here for the Sloane train. Let's go.

[Carly]

Wait.

[Hannah]

That's actually, like, awful if you think about what it needs to be swayed.

[Kinsey]

We get more enemies to lovers. Like, everyone says, Violet and Zaden are enemies to lovers, but, I mean, come on. It was instant attraction. This is a legitimate enemies to lovers. Like, I don't know. I thought he was amazing. I think he has his full redemption. I teared up at one point when he was giving his power to be siphoned. I was like, oh, my God, don't have him sacrifice himself right now. Like, I love him.

[Hannah]

I was nervous, but I. I. Yeah, I was nervous.

[Carly]

I was scared.

[Kinsey]

So I was really happy. Who survived. But, yeah, I loved Dain in this book so much.

[Hannah]

I have two thoughts. Okay, so, first of all, I never supported the Dane and Cat thing because I have plans and theories for cats.

[Kinsey]

I think cat's more likely with Auric, personally. But I felt like their personalities could have gone.

[Hannah]

Well, that would have been really interesting, I'll give you that.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

But I didn't really think about the Dane and Sloane until this book. True. I did.

[Carly]

Oh, boy.

[Hannah]

And I just. This is the other thought I saw someone's. I think it was a thread that was saying that Sloane is having a violent first year. And it was saying something like, hot wing leader that also killed your brother. Hot wing leader that also killed your brother.

[Kinsey]

Oh, my God.

[Hannah]

That's crazy. Oh, my God. Yeah, I was like, she did not hear that the first time I said it. Yeah, that also killed your brother.

[Kinsey]

I was just going off of vibes.

[Hannah]

Have to go through all, you know, first year shit like gauntlet presentation, all that. Get a power that you're afraid of and not wanting to use it because it's destructive and, you know, being forced to use it in a Situation you don't. Didn't want to have to be in. And, like, I didn't realize it, but all the shit that's happened to her, this is still her first year. She still has a month left.

[Kinsey]

So, yeah, she has a month left to destroy all the furniture in her room.

[Hannah]

They catch up. They can catch up.

[Kinsey]

I hope we get that point of view.

[Hannah]

I don't like Dane that much. I don't know. Maybe if. Depending on this next book, how it goes with Zaden.

[Carly]

Listen, Hannah, I have to agree to disagree with you on this one. I was living for Dane in that scene with Sloane where he was walking her through using her power. I felt things for Daen I never thought I'd feel. He is, like, walking her through her power, and I am reading this.

[Kinsey]

That was hot as fuck.

[Carly]

I was like, oh, my God, do I have a competency King? Has this just been triggered?

[Hannah]

I know I do, so I should have been prepared.

[Kinsey]

I'm gonna message your husband later. Hey, you need to.

[Carly]

If we keep this in the episode.

[Hannah]

I gotta warn my brother not to listen to this one. No.

[Kinsey]

Oh, no.

[Carly]

I'm just saying, I felt things in that scene. I was like, oh, no.

[Kinsey]

And all he did was just offer his power.

[Hannah]

All he set his eyes here.

[Carly]

Something new.

[Kinsey]

He's like, put your hand here, baby girl.

[Hannah]

Just. Oh, it wasn't even just that one. It was the boy. Don't I know it. Yeah, about.

[Kinsey]

Oh.

[Hannah]

Oh, well. Oh, yeah.

[Kinsey]

Even just, like, on the island, he was asking, like, about Zaden's childhood, and he's like, are you okay? Like, I don't know.

[Hannah]

I loved that scene. We'll get to that later, though.

[Kinsey]

It was great. It was all good.

[Carly]

I am surprised in this book, though, how I was just like, garrick can get it. Riddick can get it.

[Hannah]

Aurin can get it. Dave can get it.

[Carly]

All of them. I was just like, what is happening in this book?

[Kinsey]

I'm not complaining.

[Carly]

Oh, yeah, no complaints.

[Kinsey]

No, it's gonna be gone like, most of the next book. So we need somebody stop taking place.

[Carly]

No, we're not going there. We're gonna keep the energy up.

[Kinsey]

Okay. All right. So let's talk about Papa Sorrengil then, I guess. Yes.

[Carly]

I want to talk about this.

[Kinsey]

I was so happy for you, Carly.

[Hannah]

I thought one of you were gonna be like, yeah, he could get it.

[Carly]

Why not?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, where's his grave? No, I'm just kidding.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God.

[Carly]

Let's see.

[Hannah]

Too far. Okay.

[Carly]

We cannot film this late again. We are feral.

[Hannah]

Oh, My. The best way.

[Kinsey]

I'm so sorry. Just for the record, I don't do that.

[Hannah]

I don't think you had to explain. I don't think anybody thought that. Oh, my God. Oh, God. Okay. Her father's name is Asher Daxton. First of all, left field with the first name.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Was not expecting Asher.

[Kinsey]

Pretty random.

[Carly]

When it first said Asher Sorrengal, I was like, oh, I didn't get this right. And then when it switched to Asher Daxton, I was like, I called this. It wasn't the one I was hoping for. Because I was like, there's two possibilities.

[Kinsey]

Yep.

[Carly]

But I was still so happy that I got it off. Little to no information.

[Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Carly]

Yeah. I was really excited about that. And I was really excited about the research because I had said that I think some of his research stemmed from trying to heal Violet's ligaments and joints and things. And that is part of how his research started. And I was like, I called this, and I was so, so excited. And I love that you guys were texting me, telling me how happy you were for me when you got to that part.

[Hannah]

I was so stoked. I was like, oh, my God, this is one of the ones that she thought it could be, which was really, really cool. Never did, I guess, that his research would be in general. Sorengill's desk. Why would she not have known to check there? I get it. But it's like, okay, I think I.

[Carly]

Have a filmed reaction of me reading the part where she's like, oh, yeah, I got my mom's journals, but I forgot to grab my dad's stuff. And I'm like, what were you thinking? I was like, you have two dead parents, and you only grab one of their stuff.

[Hannah]

What were you thinking?

[Carly]

It wasn't even the parent you liked, and you grabbed their stuff. I was, like, lecturing Violet, what parent you take?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I did think it would be, like, hidden in plain sight, but I was like, really? Your mom's desk? At least he had the password keys. But what surprised me about his research was I felt like, at least for the fandom, we were all so hyped to get it, and then they didn't really use it that much. Like, it didn't contribute that much to the plot.

[Hannah]

It contributed to getting her to the aisles. But as far as, like, the information in it and reading it. Yeah, I agree.

[Kinsey]

I'm sure it'll come back.

[Carly]

Didn't you say that some of the research was gonna be in the aisles?

[Kinsey]

Yes. And some of it was. Yeah, it was in two places.

[Carly]

I was very impressed.

[Hannah]

Technically, it was all throughout.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

It could probably still be because we haven't went to one of the isles, you know.

[Carly]

That's true.

[Hannah]

Anyway, speaking of going to the isles, what did we think about getting to go?

[Kinsey]

That was so obvious and it was great. I'm glad that we got to explore the different places. Although, Rebecca, please give it to us in the map next time. I was like. I kept flipping to the map and I was like, fuck.

[Carly]

It's not.

[Hannah]

I think there's a reason.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, there's a reason.

[Hannah]

I think there's more that hasn't been revealed that she didn't want to try and spoil. But I agree. Cause it was so hard to picture it. I need to draw it out myself and try and figure out where it was more.

[Kinsey]

The names.

[Hannah]

Yes, the names are really intriguing. And the fact that it's a God per isle. I will say I'm really excited to get through our deep dives, chapters by chapters coverage of this because I can't wait to talk about the magic situation. Yeah. My first impression, which apparently is like not everyone's, was that it was Venon that drained it. And this is coming back up. But I was very surprised that. So I'm really, really excited to pick up on all the Easter eggs for that because I'm sure there's some in there. But I also feel like, based on how much we didn't know in Iron Flame about Onyx Storm, how much information we get, I feel like that's also gonna happen in book four.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I feel like there's a different magic system because Andarna was the only one able to use it and then the other Irids could.

[Hannah]

And Violet with Herne.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. So I was like, different magic system. But also it was so odd how they kept being described as like pale and dull colors. So I do agree with you, Hannah, that it's definitely. I think the Venin were there and then the land just kind of healed itself, just like the Irid said.

[Hannah]

Anyways, I thought it was really fucking cool that we got to go to all these places. I loved that it was very tropical and vibrant for the most part. You could tell that Rebecca used a bit of her vacation as inspo. I thought that was really nice.

[Kinsey]

Yep.

[Hannah]

The gods.

[Kinsey]

I am so glad that we got more of the gods, because I have been saying for a while they have to mean more. It's so weird now I'm gonna say, oh, anything weird that happens to Violet is because of the gods. But I just watched my video on Instagram the other day of me saying, this is what I think's gonna happen based off the blurb. And I'm like, oh, my God. What I said about the gods was spot fucking on. Like, I could not believe it. So I was really happy that we finally got confirmation that she's actually favored by the gods, because, I mean, it was clearly obvious, but now I'm just like, ooh, Malik Xenol. Like, I don't know. Like, we know Dune for sure. Like, she was touched by Dune, but I. I'm glad that it's coming into play more. And, like, almost not all of the epigraphs, but a lot of the epigraphs were about it, and I just thought it was very, very interesting.

[Hannah]

I will say Malik took an interestingly suspicious backseat in this book.

[Kinsey]

Not a lot of people died.

[Hannah]

No. Well, that too. But also the references to him were not as frequent. Like, if any God was gonna have a big role, I really thought it was gonna be Malik. So I think it's intriguing. I think that that's also telling about, you know, a little bit about book four. But, you know, if I had to have any of the gods take a backseat, maybe it is the one of Death. Yeah.

[Carly]

I'm really glad that we got more of the gods in this book. I was really looking forward to that. I do wish we would have gotten a little bit more of it sprinkled in. Me too, in the previous book. So it's not a criticism of Onyx Doran, but I just wish we'd have gotten a little more, at least in Iron Flame, like, a little bit more sprinkled in that they were more present than we realized. I had said a while ago that I had noticed that, that the Barrens is surrounded by, like, the Dunes river and the Bay of Malak. And I was like, I. I feel like somehow the gods were originally involved in, like, getting them stuck in the Barrens. And so I figured that they were going to be important in history.

[Hannah]

Interesting that it's those two.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

War and Death. Well, on brand.

[Carly]

Yeah. So I kind of thought that they might be involved in that, but I wasn't sure if it was going to be more in a context of history, of learning from them, or if it was going to be more present now. And so I think it's going to be really fun that they're present now. So. So I'm really looking forward to that.

[Hannah]

Well, and it brought us a lot of information.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Including Violet's hair. Violet's hair. Which we touched on a bit earlier, but, Kenzie, you had some things to add.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. This is a complaint. How can she go, oh, my gosh, that girl is just like me. I wonder if she has bones and ligaments like me too? And then they left. I was like, miss girl, get your answers. She's just another tease. And then leaves.

[Hannah]

My partner, Matthew, was reading simultaneously with me, but he was way ahead.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, we were at the same pace, me and Matthew.

[Hannah]

Yes. He was messaging Kitsie because I couldn't talk about it yet. And I was like, if you dare spoil it for me. Anyway, so I was reading next to him, and I read the part about the first mention of the hair before we got to. I don't think it was quite the girl with it. And I was like, oh, my God, we're about to get the silver hair reveal. And I paused to, like, go get snacks because I was like, oh, my.

[Kinsey]

God, I'm so excited.

[Hannah]

I was, like, really trying to, like, revel in it. And then he. I come back and he was like, what would. Just, like, what would happen if, like, you did it? Like, what would happen if, like, it wasn't explained? And I was like, what? Like. Like, it's gonna be explained. She brought it up.

[Kinsey]

Oh, he was trying to let you down easy.

[Hannah]

And that did help. Actually, that's the only kind of spoiler I would have liked is like, honey, your expectations are a little bit higher now. Let's turn it in. All of it.

[Carly]

Yeah, he was helping, I will say, because I know you guys were like, well, I weren't there more answers? And I was like, it made sense to me because in that moment, she's running up against the clock. She is trying to get these very important answers. And that was, like, back burnered for her. I think we're gonna get more answers about it, about why that happens and things of that nature. But to me, it made sense. The pacing would have been weird if she would have been like, hey, let's sit down and have a chat about my hair.

[Kinsey]

It would have been five minutes, I don't know.

[Carly]

Yeah, I don't think that that felt like something she had time for personally, but I understand why people wanted more answers than they got.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I like it because we got so much dumped on us. Right? Like, imagine even more. And I just. There's so there's more to it that Rebecca is going to draw out, and I'm really excited to see where she takes it. And as much as we Theorize. And clearly we've said a lot of them were right. There's also. She finds such cool ways to be. Like, you had no idea this was even, like, a possibility.

[Kinsey]

No.

[Hannah]

And this was one of those things that I was never expect. I didn't even know that, like, being touched or dedicated to a God was a thing. So that was really cool.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

Yeah, it was fun.

[Hannah]

Another thing that I was like, wow, this is a cool review. Wait, more information. Zaden's mom. Yeah. Sure enough, this wasn't the easy one to kind of be like, oh, yeah, she's in the Isles.

[Kinsey]

I gasped. I was like, oh, yeah. I wasn't expecting this. The half siblings. No, that was really sad for Zaden. I felt really sad for him.

[Carly]

I think the dynamics of the island are really interesting, and we can talk about that later when we're deep diving these. But, yeah, Zaden's mom and the dynamics of the island were all interesting to me. And I think we can safely say that I think most of the fandom universally dislikes her. And she sucks.

[Hannah]

Yeah, yeah. No, she sucks.

[Kinsey]

She sucks big time.

[Hannah]

Even when I can empathize. Because we were given a lot of context. Like, they don't prioritize love or marriage as having to do with love. It's very contractual. And even some other things that she said pointed to even family kind of being like that. Like, it's just a part of their culture.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

But damn if that didn't make me hurt for him and for her to just have so many expectations of him. Walking in was just like, yeah, I am glad that she didn't know supposedly, about the poison.

[Carly]

Well, we also found the Irids out on the isles.

[Kinsey]

Yes. I knew they were gonna be on the isles, like, right off the bat. Like, this has been. I think most people have agreed that's where they're gonna be. However, when they were at the island of Luck, I forget the name of the actual island itself. She got the compass, and I'm like, okay, it's probably gonna lead her there. It's gonna be like in Pirates of the Caribbean. It's gonna lead her, like, wherever she most desires. And then Trager got shot. And then I was like, oh, that was out of nowhere. But then I was like, oh, my God. Because Kat is insisting that they go bury him in an uninhabited island. I'm like, that's where they're gonna be. Because I'm like, that is their luck. It is going to lead them there. And so I was just like, okay, I'm Waiting. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. And when they showed up, I was like, yes. And it blew my mind that they don't need a bond to speak to them.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God. That's a whole donut.

[Carly]

Well, wasn't the whole thing too. Of the arrow? Like the arrow pointed them in the right direction. Yeah, like that was the symbology of it, wasn't it?

[Kinsey]

I don't know what direction the arrow was pointing.

[Carly]

Well, but in the way it pointed them in the right direction. Because he gets shot by an arrow, his luck was the arrow. And then because of the arrow, it inadvertently pointed them in the right direction technically.

[Hannah]

Because I feel like a lot of people kind of missed over this is it. The island itself wasn't. The Irids. The Irids tracked them. Yeah. Which I thought was really interesting. But it was the first time they could show themselves. Everyone else had left this deserted island, so it would make sense.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. They weren't going to go to that island unless Cat had insisted that they go bury Trager there. And if Trager never died, it wouldn't have happened. So that's just how it all got set up.

[Hannah]

Absolutely. Well, in any other island they would have went to, it would have been inhabited, which they would not have shown themselves in. So, yeah, it was just.

[Kinsey]

I loved how it was set up.

[Hannah]

Me too. We will also be deep diving those gifts.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Stay tuned.

[Hannah]

Stay tuned.

[Kinsey]

Because we went into way too much detail.

[Hannah]

Yes. We've got some connections and theories that are absolutely mind blowing, but they are for their own episode. The other thing you mentioned, Kinsey, is the fact that they have a whole new magic system. It's also really scary because what are their limitations? Like the fact that they can just block off other dragons and other humans bonds. That's terrifying. Feel like that's gonna come into play even more than it. Than it already has. And it boy has it. So.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Second signet reaction. Specifically violets.

[Carly]

Yep.

[Hannah]

Boy, we were so wrong. We were so wrong.

[Carly]

I think that some of the stuff we have talked about of being like, why is she doing all this in Iron Flame? I do think those things were actually happening. I don't think it's related to our second signet. Now, talking about our second segment. I know we all have a lot of thoughts. I should probably go last. I'll let you guys go last.

[Hannah]

You should probably go last. You're really great at tying everything up with a bow.

[Kinsey]

So, Kinsey, I was basically in an episode of the Office for like five minutes. I was just like like, sorry for those that are listening. I was looking at different places of my wall just, like, over and over. And just like, what? I was like, you're kidding me. I was so hyped. I was like, yes, we're gonna finally get it. First of all, Ms. Ma'am, this was what I was most looking forward to figuring out the entire book. We didn't find out until 80% I was dying. The whole book. I was like, give it to us. And along the way, I was like, oh, there's compulsion. There's compulsion. There's compulsion the whole time. So I do need an explanation for why. I don't know if it's the gods and Darna. What? Maybe it's a third.

[Hannah]

Do we think she has a third signet at this point? It's necessary to explain all this shit.

[Kinsey]

Well, the only dreams ever happened with Venon, and those weren't technically dreams. They were messages. So I'm in denial still. But anyway, in my video, the first thing I said, how is this going to be a useful segment? Which, by the way, I have thought about it. It will be useful.

[Hannah]

But I was like, this is initial reactions.

[Kinsey]

I was like, so you mean to tell me that she developed this signet about dreams when her dragon was in the dreamless sleep without? Dreams and signets don't work on dragons. The reasoning, it took me a while to get there, but I was like.

[Hannah]

Okay, I also get the reasoning. I've since kind of come away from this, but I found it slightly difficult to believe that Violet's entire world has just been turned upside down. She can no longer believe any of the facts that she'd been taught. Her whole life was centered on information and facts and the ability to trust that people were telling her the truth. Just really trying to emphasize those things. So if it's about what someone needs at the core of who they are, there are several other signets that just make the most sense if she's going to be assigned one. But if we're gonna buy into this, that what she really, really needed was Indarna. In those few months in speaking with her, it was setting up for her unbonding to be all the more heartbreaking and take even more of an excruciating toll on Violet than any thing that she has faced thus far in this series. All right, I'm just trying to beat her on the bush. I personally think it has the potential to be really cool, but I was underwhelmed with its use in this book because I kind of have pretty Much the same experience that you did. I was like, wait, is this for real? Is she fucking with us? She's like, no, this is not the real reveal. I'm just like, no. Y'all are, like, hyped for this. Okay, so first I want to clarify. I really did not ever think that she was going to be dreamwalker, because I think figured all of the dreams were tied to the Venon, as you said, Kinsey, and that it had to have been a Venon ability. Like, I just felt like they were harassing Zaden and Violet, essentially. But also they were always nightmares. So it's like she's not even a dreamwalker. Like, this girl is like a fucking nightmare walker. So I. I don't know. But I also to really wrap this around. Cause we could talk about this all day. I just want to remind everybody what I have been screaming from the rooftops since season one is that the characters themselves often have limited understanding of their own sickness. Think of Violet with her pure power and how she thought it was lightning. We even got confirmation that Zaden is not just an intentions reader. He has the ability and will grow and evolve, which is written on the paper that it will evolve to being him reading thoughts. So I think I'm just gonna throw out the word mindwalker. Maybe like lucid dreaming. Like, not lucid dreaming. Excuse me, it is lucid dreaming. Daydreaming. No, because I think if she's able to go. Not to get two theories with this, but if she's able to, she has to be asleep to be able to consciously do this. Like, Quinn has to be in another room when she projects. If she has to be asleep, maybe the other person doesn't. And so it can be just in their daily thoughts, which is really cool. But it's also setting a limitation to where she can't just like freely mind walk anybody's mind on a given moment. So I don't know. I like it, but it was not what I expected in the slightest.

[Kinsey]

Can I add one last thing before you go into it? After I finally got over my initial, like, wow, Really? I was like, hold up. I'm pretty sure I posted about this on Reddit. So I went to my Reddit and it was the first theory I ever posted. And I literally had said, sorry, I just finished Iron Flame an hour ago. I'm really trying to put together my thoughts. I am so upset because that was my first theory.

[Hannah]

For her second sitment, she was a dreamwalker.

[Kinsey]

That was my first theory. And I was like, are you Shitting me. So I let it go. Because when I did my rereads, I just found so much more evidence of other things. And other people had convinced me, oh, it's just through their bond or it's just a regular dream.

[Hannah]

It made more sense to have it explained away by abandonability.

[Kinsey]

And then I went through, and I was thinking, okay, well, what are all of the dreams she went through? So then I was like, okay, beginning of Iron Flame. That had to have been Imogen's dreams, because she was right below Imogen's room. And Imogen had said, you're not the only one that's not sleeping well. So I actually had, like, broken it down before moving on, which thank God, I did, because the very next scene. Ugh.

[Hannah]

I do also want to say that I have. I've been in the bargaining stage of my grief for this book. And one of my bargaining maneuvers is that it's setting up for Violet and Satan to be able to communicate via dreams in the next book. Absolutely. And so as soon as I thought about that at the end, I was like, okay, maybe. Maybe I'll actually be thanking Rebecca for doing this. For my sake, my Romantasy.

[Kinsey]

Everything has a reason. We just don't know yet why exactly. All right, Carly, take it away.

[Carly]

So while I would have loved an explanation that explained the numerous weird things I noticed Violet doing in Iron Flame, I had discussed the drapes previously because I do these, like, Q&As on my bookstagram on Fridays. I've done them for a long time about fourth wing. And the dreams get brought up a lot. And the first thing I had told people was somebody had said a dreamwalker. And I was like, well, if it's involving the dreams, I think it's going to be some form of astral projection, which is what Quinn has, because that's an ability within some theories of astral projection. And I was like, so I think we'd have to be thinking of her as having a more powerful version of Quinn's signet. And I don't know that people like that because people really wanted it to be some unique signet. And I had also, whenever I looked at evidence for her signet, I always try to be really careful of not including things that involve Zaden. And it seemed like the most sinister dreams only happened when she was sleeping next to Zaden. And so I was like, well, it's really only. Those ones really only involve Xaden, and maybe that's their bond, and that muddies the waters. That being said, the reason why I had pushed away from a dreamwalker or calling it a dreamwalker was because I had done some research previously for a project of mine years ago and had come across the term shadow walker, which is used in certain indigenous tribes. And that is where I stumbled across the term dreamwalker. And it is a sacred practice basically in certain indigenous cultures. So I am not the most comfortable calling Violet a dreamwalker. I think it's a term that has been used in the fantasy genre a lot across many books, not just this one. And I don't know that people realize that it's a term that has been appropriated. Appropriated or co opted from indigenous culture. It makes me uncomfortable. I wish it would have been called anything else. Yeah, literally anything else. And so, I mean, so, yeah, so that was one of the reasons why when I had first started talking about theories for her signet, I had shied away from this. And I will say too that going through people's dreams is not what a dreamwalker is in indigenous culture. It's a form of entering other realms, like realms of being. So it doesn't necessarily have to do with walking through other people's dreams. I just wish it would have been called anything else. And unfortunately that's a thing that happens a lot in fantasy writing. You see that with a lot of different things, not just this.

[Hannah]

I agree. And I'm slightly hopeful. Maybe this is me doing that bargaining thing a little bit deeper. I'm slightly hopeful that that will change. I think overall it's a cool signet to have. There are coolers in its staff. But again, it's a form of intrinsic. So like, I really, really do think it's going to evolve.

[Carly]

Well, that was another thing that didn't make sense to me too, was calling it a form of intrinsic because Zaden acts like it's way more powerful than being like a regular intenzic. I'm like, well then doesn't that make Intzix a form of dreamwalker? Because you wouldn't call Arric a form of Melgrin Signet. You would say M Signet was a form of Arix.

[Hannah]

I think that the reason he says that is because it was noted earlier in the book that Zaden falling asleep and she can penetrate his shields.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And she's like shocked and she's like, oh, they're down cause he's going to sleep. I think the reason that he and Rebecca are inferring and Leathan I believe is whichever the Irid dragons had said that and Darna had gifted such a Dangerous signet is because Zaden himself won as an intrinsic. Cannot use it if he is shielding or if the other person is. Violet's asleep. She's not shielding in her sleep. She can do it to anyone. She's not limited to that. And anyone else is also not shielding because they are asleep. So it's not as limited with who you can and cannot, except to the point that they also have to be asleep. And I'm sure she'd have to practice it. I imagine. She can't spend the entire book just dreamwalking. So, like, there's gonna be limitations with it. But that, I believe, is why she is expressing it as this super dangerous thing.

[Carly]

Yeah. It just seems like, though, to me, though, if it's like the more powerful or more dangerous version of it that you would like, it would be like the umbrella term and then things underneath it.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

But it doesn't matter necessarily. I just thought it was interesting that he explained it that way.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I also think Rebecca didn't want us to be as underwhelmed. We could never find her actually quoting, like, quote unquote, saying underwhelming. I'd heard everyone say that she had said it, but I couldn't find that. And so maybe she did say that. And maybe she was really setting up for. To be like, guys, hold on. This book is not gonna have the cool shit for this. Just wait. Cause it really did. And she didn't use it.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

A lot. Except after our next topic. All right. Kins.

[Kinsey]

My least favorite scene of the entire series that made me, for a moment, hate this book and made me inconsolable. And I sobbed for two chapters. Was Aunt Darna breaking the bond? Like, I don't even want to talk about it. When Carly finally finished Onyx storm, I immediately FaceTimed her, and I just start sobbing. She's like, well, I'm sorry that you're crying about this book. But I was just like, I'm just.

[Hannah]

So sad about that specific part. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I just can't let it go. I. Mm. It is the most I have cried for this series, and I hated it. She's not even my favorite dragon. I was so upset.

[Hannah]

I saw. I mean, I really thought there was no way in hell she was gonna do that until she was actively doing it. Until, like, she tried talking and I was like, jaw on the floor, tears stream. Immediate waterworks.

[Kinsey]

So sad.

[Hannah]

Yeah, no, that was. And then Violet's reaction to it because no shit. Like, oh, my God, that's the worst thing. And Rebecca said that the grief, the box of grief that Violet had been stuffing was going to explode, essentially. In way other words, that is not a direct quote, but like, oh my God, that she. She was not moving. Like no reason to live. And the fact, the fact that she also compared it to understanding why human writers die when their dragons do is because they have no sense of purpose or will to live after they lose that bond. But Taran poured all of his, like essentially his love for her and opened up his full bond, which that got me. That got me so much that alone, like, I feel traumatized by this. And I know that people would be like, oh my God, it's a book. No, I felt betrayal from Andarna. Later when we talk about Quinn and Imogen, I remember sobbing for Quinn, which I never expected. We'll come back to that. Thinking to myself, you are never gonna recover from Indarna. Like that. Literally thought that to myself.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

While I was reading it. And it was also quite relatable the way that she reacted to grief and she's had many forms of it. I'm like getting teary eyed thinking about like, I felt such betrayal, but also so much love from Taryn. And then I just thought like, Violet has Taryn, but like Taryn was also like raised her and they would bicker and stuff, but like that he was always just so like protective and loved her. And the fact that he didn't even get to be a part of their last conversation because Leathan blocked them off, which again is fucking crazy that they could do that to Violet's bond. I hate that scene with the passion. I would have been right there with you. It would have been. I don't know if I would have been able to like this book if for real that happened. And we didn't get. And Darna talking to us at the end. Like, I. Yeah, yeah.

[Carly]

I think that that's the scene that like trauma bonded us to Onyx Storm. Like we're just. It was traumatizing and I am a person that it usually takes me a little while to process things. And so it was like two or three days after I read that scene and I was driving home from work and I started thinking about that moment where she talks about how Taryn's always been with me, but now I'm with him. And I literally just started sobbing driving home and I was like, I've got to get it together before I get home. But yeah, I was just like, I'm not okay from this. It wasn't even just her Leaving. Because I think there was something. There's always something about Violet and Arundharna's relationship to me that was always like, big sister, little sister. And so I think that was really hard as I'm both a big sister and a little sister. And so I think there was something about that. I was just like, oh, that would be really hard for me. Just the way I think Taryn took care of her just broke me. The way he really just encompassed her was just so beautiful, but also just heartbreaking.

[Hannah]

All I kept thinking back to was the scene in Fourth Wing when Violet finds out that Mira's alive and she thinks there's only one person I can go to. And then the next scene is in Darna touching down in the field and just walking straight up. And, like. Yeah, there's scales to, like, forehead. And I. Yeah.

[Carly]

Those are those sisterly moments, though. Like, those moments when, like, at least for me, when it's, like, I call my sister, you know, like. Cause, like, no matter what it is, she'll accept it. And. And Darna was that place for her, and I just. Ugh, my heart broke for her.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Like, I was happy that she got to be with her family, but God damn it, I was like, I haven't cried yet. This is great.

[Hannah]

There was a demeaning of her, and we're not very accepting of who and Darna was. And so that's why I was like, this isn't even, like, necessarily, like, the healthiest place for her to go. I get it.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

It just made me sad. And there was a moment, too, where I was like, oh, my God, we're gonna get confirmation that she had bonded to her before threshing. And I was just, like, waiting for that theory, like, that theory of mine to be right. But Violet was the one that answered the question. And then Darna got cut off. She never said anything about when she bonded to her. And I'm just gonna say again, we know that Irids can talk mind to mind without actually doing it, but I don't know. And there was even a part where I was like, I don't know. It was just weird that. Why does it have to be the first to bond? But I don't know. So there was a part where I was so hopeful at the beginning, and then my heart was just shredded.

[Hannah]

Do you think that feathertail Irids can go invisible?

[Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Hannah]

Oh, I don't know.

[Carly]

I didn't think that.

[Hannah]

Because if and Darna could talk to Violet before they were bonded as her.

[Kinsey]

Scales didn't change until after she had matured, so probably.

[Hannah]

So it might be the case that they cannot be invisible until they're grown.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, probably not.

[Hannah]

Yeah. I'm not. I'm not dissuaded by the theory that and Darna actually bonded before threshing, even though it was seemingly pointing to that. I'm not. I think it might be a red herring.

[Kinsey]

She even set it all up. Taryn would have never bonded to Violet if Andarna didn't put everything into motion.

[Carly]

Well, even if she bonded her second, it still seems possible she was the one talking to her because they.

[Hannah]

Yeah, they got somewhere.

[Carly]

So either way, I think that that theory is at least probably partially right, because she. That way, the whole section was, like, answered. And how Violet answered was all very suspicious.

[Kinsey]

Very suspicious.

[Carly]

Yeah. Well, we really brought the energy down with that one. Maybe we should have ended on that.

[Hannah]

On the topic of very suspicious, we got new POVs. Okay. But Rhys chapter so suspicious. It seemed like as I was reading it, first of all, it leaves off on a cliffhanger from Violet, and I was just speed reading and I'm like, this is just battle sequence. Why do I need to know this? This seems so random. There's got to be something in there that I'm really excited for our deep dive to explore because I think there's an Easter egg in there or some sort of revelation. Maybe it's connected to the end. Maybe it's something we won't know until book four that is going to play a bigger role. That was necessary to include her chapter and not just for the sake of having her pov, which I did enjoy. Being in Rhea's mind and seeing the dynamics between different riders and dragons was.

[Kinsey]

Really cool, but I thought this was the most confusing chapter. I was also just trying to skip through and get back to Violet because I thought her throat got slit. And I was like, wait, what? And I had to keep going back to Violet's before the switch. I'm glad that we got Ri's chapter because I was really disappointed that she was absent from most of this book. I had it on my bingo card that Ri was going to die, but about, like, 10 or 15% through. I'm like, ri's not even in Onyx Storm. She's not going to die. So I crossed that out already. I was like, she's not dying. I was very confident she wasn't going to. But once we got her chapter, I was like, is this it? Are we going to get a Divergent situation? Here and, like, have to read her dying in her point of view. Like, oh, my gosh. But, yeah, that was my experience with the RE chapter. I was confused and stressed.

[Hannah]

What about you, Carly? Were you also confused, stressed, and speeding through?

[Carly]

No, I loved the chapter. I knew it was going to have Easter eggs and things that were important, and I've already found a couple that I love, but we'll get into that later. That's not for today's episode. I really liked it, and I think it made sense in this standpoint that how the book ended. I think it's setting up that we are going to be getting viewpoints from different people in different parts of the continent.

[Kinsey]

I hope to God we do.

[Hannah]

If Zaden for real is new mooning this bitch, he is. I better be filled with.

[Kinsey]

I hope to God we get more POVs, because I love multiple POV books.

[Hannah]

And I imagine being in Riddick's mind.

[Kinsey]

Amazing.

[Carly]

I can't wait.

[Kinsey]

Well, just seeing the interactions with all the different dragons, I was like, this is great.

[Carly]

Oh, yeah, no, the interactions with the dragons was definitely the most fun part of it. But, yeah, I think the way this book ended, though, is gonna see Violet very much tied to Arisha and Tyrindor, and I think that because of that, we might get to see these other characters in different parts of the continent dealing with different things.

[Kinsey]

I hope so.

[Carly]

So I actually think it would be really cool in the next book if we could get a POV from a flyer. So I'd love to see what's going over in cat meal. Well, Serena or Drake.

[Hannah]

We could get Drake and broccoli.

[Kinsey]

Just give us a broccoli pov.

[Carly]

Just give us broccoli.

[Hannah]

At this point, she's definitely going to. The fandom loves broccoli. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I'm like, how did we not talk about broccoli? Hello.

[Hannah]

We tried to condense. We tried. We're spending so long on each topic, even though it doesn't feel like that they're all adding up. So we tried to condense to just saying, oh, we'll talk about the gifts another time. But you're right. Broccoli. Love Broccoli, the fandom's new fav character.

[Carly]

We'll talk about the symbology of broccoli later. That doesn't matter. He's adorable. We must be protected at all costs. And we all love him, and he is our fandom mascot at this point, I think.

[Hannah]

All right, Imogen's pov.

[Kinsey]

Y'all already know what I thought. I loved it. I love Imogen just like, re. Imogen was gone for, like, more than half the book. And I was like, where is my girl? I need her.

[Hannah]

I know I need her.

[Kinsey]

She's my emotional support character. And so I just absolutely loved it. I thought it was super cool when her dragon went upside down with her on and she has a second signet, which I was like, girly pop, why would you let people know your more dangerous signet of erasing memories instead of just being like, I'm a stone wielder? I feel like that would have been more sense, but I don't know. It was really cool. But let me just say the third time that I cried in this book was Quinn died.

[Hannah]

I did not expect.

[Kinsey]

I wasn't expecting Quinn to die. But also, I'm impartial towards Quinn. I don't feel one way or the other towards her. But getting that from Imogen's POV and her being like, this is the only person on this battlefield that I love, and then having her flashback to when they first met.

[Hannah]

I know.

[Kinsey]

Oh, that got me. Let's make it a good one.

[Hannah]

Or it was a good one. Oh, yeah. I did see Quinn's death coming. I'm pretty sure I said that in our Theories episode. Or maybe it was our Imogen deep dive. I'm not sure, but one of those. I was like, she's definitely dying. But I was like. I think I even said it almost word for word. She's not that significant of a character for us to care that much. So I don't think it will be that impactful of a death.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

But that's because I assumed it would be Violet's pov. The moment that she started thinking about Quinn in her pov, Imogen, I knew it was over for us. And it still hadn't quite hit me until the. It's been a good one, which I have written in my notes as it's the new. It's been my honor. Oh, my God. That took me out.

[Carly]

Yeah. I might be getting a tattoo of that one. Honestly, I love it.

[Kinsey]

I love that.

[Hannah]

Oh. I also feel like we didn't really get to see a lot of Imogen and Quinn's relationship, but the way that Rebecca wrote this scene, mentioning all these private moments that they'd had where, like, they were, like, laying on the bed together and stuff like that. Like, that added so much to it. And I loved. We got that first, and then we got the flash forward, and then we'll make it a good one.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Just the order devastating.

[Kinsey]

That's hurry, you know, like, oh, God, I'm crying again.

[Hannah]

Oh, no, don't put it like that.

[Kinsey]

Well, it is like. Yeah, it's just. It's like a death that like, normally, like, if it was in Violet's pov, I genuinely don't think I would have cared that much.

[Hannah]

But, no, I wouldn't have.

[Kinsey]

Getting it from Imogen, I was so hype. I was like, yeah, Imogen, we're finally getting more Imogen. And then to have it end like that, I was like, bro.

[Hannah]

And then Imogen saying that her sister and her mom would be there waiting for her.

[Kinsey]

Oh, shut up.

[Hannah]

Don't shut up. Yeah, this book was traumatic.

[Carly]

I cried during this scene. But I also just thought it was so beautifully written. I had so much respect for the scene. I thought it was so well done. I thought it was perfect. I mean, it ripped my heart out, but it did it beautifully.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I expected more people to die. I expected there to be one more bigger death. But the way that this one was written, I'm actually like, I couldn't take any more. Rebecca.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Okay, so now we are at the latter end chapters of this book, which I just said this book was traumatic, but boy, it was really the last couple chapters that did me in. There are so many reveals, so much going on, a lot of confusion around it. So we have actually decided we are going to do an entire episode breaking down and explaining those end chapters as we understand it and then adding in some theories about, like, what we think might be going on in a separate episode. For this one, we're going to go ahead and give our overall reactions to, like, key points. Just trying to keep it brief because I know we've kept you guys listening for a long time at this point. So with that, Kenzie, you are super excited to talk about the reveal of the informant, the traitor, who was it?

[Kinsey]

Hand check. He was on my list of traders and people I did not trust and people I thought was Venon.

[Hannah]

So to be fair, that was quite a long list.

[Kinsey]

It was. But have I been wrong?

[Hannah]

No.

[Kinsey]

I will say Brandon was a lot more believable in this book and more trustworthy.

[Hannah]

Suspiciously not suspicious.

[Kinsey]

We skipped over the rune part, but that came back up. We'll talk about another time. But yes, I. I mean, Panchak's homies with like General Eidos too. And he is also my number one suspect, so. Oh, yeah, I will not be surprised if he's also a Venin. But I was like, go figure. Go fucking figure. I was not Surprised. Surprised by the reveal at all. Plus, wasn't Panchak, like, literally with them in Orisha? Like, he insisted that he go and. And I'm gonna say her name wrong. Theophany.

[Hannah]

Theophany.

[Kinsey]

Theophany had. I keep trying to say theology and Stephanie. It's so hard. Theophany kept saying, I know everything about you. And she knew everywhere that they were gonna go. How do they know unless they have a Venin that can counter Rx precognition. They had an informant. So I was just like, yep, called it.

[Hannah]

That was one of those aha moments we had this past weekend where I was like, oh, my God, if there's a match for all of them, what if there is a Precog Venon? And it would kind of explain, like, some of the weird shit. This is, I think how we started talking about it was there's some weird shit going on in Iron Flame where the Venon. If it's not, then, like, just in intentionally infiltrating the dreams. Clearly Violet's dreamwalker now. And clearly that Venon is a dreamwalker. But how is it that they knew that whoever they were referring to, clearly, Zadie, at this point, I guess, was gonna turn for love unless they have a Precog Venon. So that just makes sense to me. But having an informant for all that other stuff, like, especially like, oh, my God, we skipped right over freaking Aurra and killing Professor Grady. That's fine because his father deserved it. Yeah, that was quite satisfying, I'm not gonna lie. But another one of those things of, like, how did they know? And that makes sense because that was really last minute. And I will say, for whatever reason, my brain was so overwhelmed, overstimulated these last couple chapters. I was like, which professor is Pancheck at this point? Which is crazy because I have a pretty good idea of the characters from these deep dives. But I was struggling. So much fun.

[Carly]

A lot of characters.

[Hannah]

Yeah, well. And I also skipped right over the other brother thing because I thought it was referring to Panchak. My first read. So until I, like, finished and went back and re read through it, I was like, oh, my God, that's another person. So crazy. We're tabling that one for the next episode.

[Carly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Because that will turn into a whole theories thing.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So I want to talk generally for a moment about the ending of this book. I feel like it was way worse in a heartbreak sense than Iron Flame, even though it was all of the same concepts and fears. Zaden turning Venon, except Amplified with no sign of hope in sight. Just really drove it straight into the ground. And I wanted Yalls thoughts on that because it felt just like a more traumatic version of Iron Flame's ending.

[Kinsey]

To be honest, I thought Iron Flames ending was better. That was the first initial shock of oh, my God. I can't believe he turned with this ending. I was fully anticipating it. I was expecting a new moon situation. I was expecting him to leave. I was expecting no point of return. Once we also had confirmation of Compulsion is not her second signet. And the Irid said that there is no cure. I was just like, yeah, he's done for. Like, he's not gonna. There's no going back. And I remember FaceTiming you guys, like, when I was more than halfway through, I'm like, so, what do you guys think? And you were still, like, so hopeful and everything. And I was like, yeah, she hasn't gotten.

[Hannah]

Dude, I don't know what it is, but listening to you say all of that and. And Carly, you said you also like. It played out how you expected. I was really optimistic. I was significantly optimistic. I was getting to the 75%, 80 point right before we got the downhill after second sigma into Andarna there, I was like, they keep failing, but we've got it. There's some guiding light here somewhere. And it was failure after failure after failure. And then I got to the end, and I was like, there's no way he's turning. There's no way. I was in denial. I think that might be why it hit me, like, as hard as it did, because y'all know I did not like that ending.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I have struggled with how much I do not like the ending. And I get it. Let me say, from a writing perspective, I like the ending. From a reader perspective, I fucking hate it. And it's not a judgmental thing. It's just not what I wanted for my baby.

[Carly]

I loved the ending. It was my favorite part of the book. And how. I just love it. I love that I wrote in our notes that this is a favorite part of my book. And I don't know who typed it in here. Explain.

[Hannah]

I said, explain to me why I.

[Carly]

Loved it because we really felt what Violet was feeling.

[Hannah]

I agree with that.

[Carly]

Well, I love it when a book can really make me feel what the main character is feeling. Because at the end of Iron Flame, I liked the ending. I knew it was gonna end there. I was, like, 100% confident that's how that book was ending. But I didn't Feel, like, devastated.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Well, we didn't get Violet's perspective on it, except for she was sleeping next to him.

[Carly]

Well, we get her perspective when he tells her that's from her perspective. And I know, like, you know, she's supposed to be devastated, but I, at the end of the book, was, like, excited. And so I loved the end of this book because I feel like I felt every single emotion there was. And that's really hard to do. And I enjoyed it. I enjoy being made to feel.

[Hannah]

I was gonna say, are you a sadist? Is that what it's called?

[Carly]

No.

[Kinsey]

Is that what it's called?

[Hannah]

Masochist. Are you a masochist?

[Carly]

I think that's more about physical pain. I just enjoy when a book can really make me feel the whole spectrum of emotions and just really bring me down into the depths of what the character is feeling.

[Hannah]

It's skill.

[Carly]

To me, that's perfect. What else could you want? Like, that's the point of the book, right? Is it happily ever after?

[Kinsey]

No, Hannah. But it's only before we're halfway through.

[Hannah]

That's why I said I knew going into it was book three. But, like, I don't know why. But to be fair, I just wanted, like, a glimmer of hope. I have that, though. Either of you actually leave off, Be honest, feeling hopeful?

[Carly]

No. Yeah.

[Hannah]

What?

[Carly]

Of course it's book three.

[Kinsey]

Well, yeah. Like, I know it's not the end.

[Carly]

I've got two more books for each other.

[Hannah]

Yeah. But we're also about, like, a year and a half more to.

[Carly]

I'll be okay Stew in it. I've got other things.

[Kinsey]

To me, we basically ended at the same place as Iron Flame. He turned Venon. I was expecting it. I wasn't surprised. I was more so annoyed. I know, Hannah, you're really hung up on the whole marriage thing, but for me, I couldn't care. I do not care about that. I just want to know what happened with the dragon eggs. Who the other brother is, how they killed the dragons. Like, that's what I care about. To me, I was totally expecting this ending, and I just was like, okay, there we go. That's Onyx Storm.

[Hannah]

I don't. I'm so surprised, but I am hung up. Specifically, I think I called Carly and I said the two things that I'm hung up on after I vented to Kinsey, because it was, like, progressive.

[Kinsey]

I've heard it so many times.

[Hannah]

I meet with Kinsey first, as soon as I literally finished the last sentence, was sobbing and Kenzie FaceTimed after I said, I just finished and then I got on with Carly. And so by the time I'd made it on there, I was like, I narrowed it down. There's two things. The lack of hopefulness that I just like. It was a lot. And I've been honest about my mental state in this podcast before previous seasons. I do not do well with not positive books. So to be fair, just some transparency there. But it was the lack of hope and then it was the fucking off page wedding. And look, I did not know that that was going to be that like this would be so meaningful to me and be a necessity for my enjoyment of a. I had no idea. But it is. Okay. And Kenzie, you reminded me earlier that I also hated Mockingjay for the fucking memory wiping and I also hated New Moon for the same fucking shit. I, I have been bundling all of this up. I understand why it was written this way, okay? But I was so excited and you'll understand better when you hear my favorite quotes. I was so excited for all of the hints and just the teasing about Zaden wanting to marry her through the book. And I was like, oh my God, this is gonna be so fun to read in book four and five. This is gonna be so fun in a later booked experience. I cannot wait. I really. We get Zaden's pov. Like your girl was like ready and thinking ahead in a very optimistic way. And so for me, for me to have it happen, not on page, already heartbroken, devastated, wrecked. But then Violet can't even remember it. Are you fucking kidding me? That is so heartbreaking to me.

[Kinsey]

I love how passionate you are about this because I'm just. Every time you talk about how traumatic the book is and how upset you are about an off screen marriage, I'm just like, she clearly has not read Sarah J. Maas yet because I have been used and abused.

[Hannah]

This feels like a spoiler.

[Kinsey]

I have been used and abused. I do not care.

[Hannah]

I don't want to read books. I don't know. I, I. Go ahead. Carly, I'm just gonna say, if you.

[Carly]

Are a Patreon member, I hope you are watching this episode because their facial reactions are priceless. In this episode, watching Kinsey try to hold it together while Hannah is losing it, it's the best part. Your guys reactions to this episode have been fantastic and I really hope you're watching this episode if you're able to.

[Kinsey]

Well, what's wrong?

[Hannah]

I'm so glad my trauma is entertaining.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, well, when we're at book a break. I heard her talk about this a thousand times, and she's just as passionate as the first time.

[Hannah]

I heard every single time because it. I don't know how to. I fucking sobbed. I was mad. If you go onto our Instagram, you can see my reactions to the end of the book, and you see me going, no, no, no, no. And I cut down, like, 25 minutes down to, like, these parts. And at the end, you just see me, like, sobbing and then fucking furious. I don't. It's so dramatic, and it's a great ending. It is fantastic. It did things like, it proved to us that Imogen was going to live and that she was gonna have a bigger role. I love it. It did a lot of things. I love that. I fucking hate that. The thing that we lost from that was the moment, because I didn't even finish this full thought earlier. But we got all these teases and all this buildup, and there was so much of Zaden and Violet. They couldn't be. Like, they just were constantly pulled apart, even though he was the most romantically devoted in all of his words. But then. So I was like, okay, I can't get the full romance through this book. I get it. It's book three. But then you take that from me, and now I have to sit here for two years and think about everything. I can't think about.

[Kinsey]

Just write a fanfic, girl. You'll be fine.

[Hannah]

I said that. I literally said, I need someone to write a fanfic that writes in Rebecca's style.

[Kinsey]

We're not gonna, like, finish this book and not know what happened. Like, just be patient.

[Hannah]

Okay? I do have some notes on exactly that because I've been bargaining with my grief, and these are the things that have helped me feel a little bit better knowing that Zaden wanted to marry Violet for at least a whole book. Okay. He didn't just do this as a political move to protect Tyr Endor. He wouldn't marry Cat for a political fucking alliance. He's not doing that to Violet. And so then, as Zaden himself said in Onyx Storm, I'll use Tirandor to protect you, not you to protect Tirindor. And so it wasn't about Bodhi not being able to take over for him, and she was not the last resort. And this was both something that Xaden wanted for them for himself, which makes me really want to cry alone. And he can't even have anyways. But also, he did it to protect Violet as a duchess since they're now going to be targeting her as a means to kill Zaden, which is a fucking full circle back to the first book. So as much as I really hate it, I also really love it. And so I just really wish it was on page.

[Kinsey]

Well, what we did get on page, which made me sad and made me start to tear up, but I didn't cry. But when he realizes that he's falling through the ice, he's becoming the ice. He's losing his soul and he's losing everything. And then she calls out, I love you, and that is the only thing he clings onto. That was heartbreaking because even though I was expecting him to go past the point of no return, just getting that perspective, and he still.

[Hannah]

He said that even if he became a Maven, he would love her.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. And he still had those emotions. And he's just like, no, you can't take this. Like, this is the only thing I need to me. I loved that.

[Hannah]

I feel like I'm grasping at straws to, like, feel hope.

[Kinsey]

The wave of shadows. Like, it just was really cool description. I thought it was really cool.

[Hannah]

And as both of you have said, I'm sure we'll get it on page. But the thing that, like, leaves me the most hopeful is that her being able to dreamwalk is going to be the way that they're going to communicate. So it's not going to be like a full new moon situation, which, like, kill me now. So I'm just telling you right. Right now, loud and clear that if we she Violet and then hence us, we get to see their ceremony through Zaden's eyes via dream, that will more than suffice for how distraught I am over not having. Even if I have to wait fucking two years to get that. If we get his thoughts, his feelings in a dream, actually of that, I'll forgive Rebecca.

[Carly]

Okay, so I think maybe we need a separate podcast to talk about Hannah's feelings on the marriage.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, we need to. Carly, one of your thoughts.

[Carly]

Moving on, we'll do some dragon readers episodes where Hannah can just.

[Hannah]

That was all. I've been waiting so long to get that off my chest.

[Carly]

So, you know, I have a feeling tomorrow, though, there's gonna be another FaceTime call about this.

[Kinsey]

So I had to deal with this all weekend on book a break.

[Hannah]

I had to deal with my shame every five fucking seconds. So give me a break.

[Kinsey]

That is true. That was how I coped with Andarna and Zaden. Anytime. I'll make. I should explain for those who don't follow me on Instagram. On my Kindle notes apparently. Cause again, I was extremely sleep deprived. I kept highlighting things that were sad and then I would put my Shayla because I just think the audio is really funny. And so I. Yeah, I made a post about it and I. Or a story about it and then.

[Hannah]

Has not stopped repeating it.

[Kinsey]

I just finished. Every time something sad happens, we're even. I'm like my Shayla.

[Carly]

That's Kinsey's coping mechanism for this.

[Hannah]

Yeah, Harley really lucked out. Out of the three of us this weekend, she only got occasional FaceTime. With all of this chaos, I'd see.

[Carly]

It come through and be like, I.

[Kinsey]

Know you should not have answered. I could have gone to bed before 5 in the morning. I could have gone to bed before 5am if you had an answer.

[Hannah]

Carly. Guys, so sorry. We used to try this thing where we would have all theory and speculation and feelings and thoughts on the pod. You guys, you get the most sharpened of our thoughts and conversations and stuff. Because yes, 5am Nights.

[Kinsey]

That was really rough.

[Hannah]

Our thing for us.

[Carly]

So it's a real commitment. We're trauma bonded for this podcast at this point.

[Kinsey]

Oh, for sure, for sure.

[Carly]

And we're in it to win it. Woo. We're gonna make it through this series if it's the last thing we do.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it will be.

[Hannah]

Well, that's all I actually had to say, guys.

[Kinsey]

Thanks God.

[Carly]

Then let's bring us up. What were your guys favorite moments? I already said my favorite part was the ending. What were your guys favorite moments?

[Kinsey]

I have one more thing to say about the end.

[Carly]

Okay.

[Kinsey]

I was right. That Zaden did not actually kill the maven. I was like, nobody knows. So I like was not shocked at all.

[Hannah]

I was like fucking crazy though that he can't kill his maven and that that was the reason.

[Carly]

We'll have to get into that in another episode. That is a whole can of worms.

[Kinsey]

We're good.

[Hannah]

I think put simply, it's a limitation. And I like that. That's cool. Makes it interesting. Otherwise you could just kill him.

[Carly]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Okay.

[Hannah]

Kenzie, you want to do your favorite moment?

[Kinsey]

Yes. So I have selected two to share. Riddick is my fave. Well, not like my fave fave, but in this book he's my fave. And I loved the scene on the beach where he and his dragon were just like pranking each other. Like he was getting soaked and he's like, no, these are my only boots. Like now I'm all wet. And he explained that he had put, like, itching powder in his scales. And I just thought that was the cutest thing. And I was like, of course they have prank wars. Like, they are literally meant for each other. It is so perfect.

[Carly]

They truly are hiccup and toothless.

[Kinsey]

I love it. It was just so sweet and so cute. And then another scene that I really liked was just the fact that Auric was perfectly fluent in every single language.

[Hannah]

But, like, I loved that pretended and.

[Kinsey]

Like, withheld this information until after Dane was struggling with translation. And I was like, of course he did. I loved that Riddick moment the most, for sure.

[Hannah]

I will surprise no one when I tell you what my favorite moment is. It's Zaden. When Surprise. Zayden. When they first arrived to the first isle Devarelli, where he was so carefree to the point of asking Daen about their childhood together, he and Violet. Ah, my fucking heart. And that just. I just. The way that he's described is, like, without the weight of. Yeah. The Marchwind's responsibility. Tyr Endore, his powers, his intensic ability. Like, all of that just washed away. And of course, he lost his bond with Sigail. And I love that he also brought that up as, like, not being worth staying when Violet told him. Cause I told Matthew, he was sitting with me, and I said, look, Violet's better than me because I be standing there with this man like, we would not revolution.

[Carly]

What?

[Hannah]

Which is really selfish. And I'm really glad she didn't. But again, I said she's better than me. And so I just. I really appreciated it. I wanted it to last longer. I could do a whole book on just that version of Zayden. And because mostly we really just got to see a lot of what he lost because of the war and turning Venon. And that's all I can say before I start crying. So.

[Carly]

Okay.

[Hannah]

Rapid fire. Favorite quotes? My first one. Drop the papers. Shh.

[Carly]

It's more fun when she blows shit up.

[Kinsey]

Who said that was a Riddick?

[Carly]

Riddick.

[Kinsey]

Of course it was. Do not dehydrate on my account. It takes more than the weather to fell me. Wish I could say the same for you.

[Hannah]

Will surprise no one. That's Violet Sorengale with two Rs. T Census. Trent.

[Carly]

Yes. The table is broken now. What do you need?

[Kinsey]

I live by you. When have I ever given a fuck about the Codex or the Code of Conduct? I am yours and you are mine. And there's no law or rule in this world or the next that will change that.

[Hannah]

Is it just me or does my pillow smell like you? Signed X.

[Carly]

Well, he described you almost perfectly. Dane Akos.

[Kinsey]

And what my quote is? Dane eyes here, Ada.

[Hannah]

Yes, in reference to boyfriend. That's far too casual a term for what we are.

[Carly]

You see, that's my little one. Love that part.

[Kinsey]

Oh, gods. Just stop flirting and fuck already. I said that out loud, didn't I?

[Hannah]

Riddick. Riddick. I am jealous of the armor that holds you when I can't. The sheets on your bed that caress your skin every night, and the blades that feel your hands. Shut the fuck up.

[Kinsey]

I don't think that was part of the quote. No, that was me.

[Carly]

Okay, given how rested you look, I'm guessing you got plenty of that. Inina Shrine sours bed last night. How disappointing for her.

[Hannah]

It's pretty sweet. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I don't like your selection in Mates, yet here we are.

[Hannah]

I actually don't really like that one.

[Carly]

They're mates.

[Kinsey]

Confirmed Mates.

[Hannah]

Confirmed is what I like about it. This is my all time favorite. My last name is tied to the title, but we could take yours.

[Kinsey]

Sorensen.

[Carly]

So good.

[Kinsey]

I like the blending of the names. I prefer Sorenson.

[Carly]

Yeah. And yet yours miraculously carry the burden of your ego.

[Kinsey]

And to finish things off, just you and me today, honey bear. Don't worry, I'll take good care of you.

[Carly]

Fucking love Garak.

[Kinsey]

Can you tell most of them were like funny quotes? Because the book was like, not like.

[Hannah]

We were definitely sad. Look at our collections separately and tell a lot about each of us.

[Carly]

Yeah, for sure. What we love. Definitely.

[Hannah]

I. Every single one of mine was Zaden.

[Kinsey]

I know I had Taryn Garrick, Riddick Dane.

[Carly]

Love it.

[Kinsey]

Zaden, of course. And that wraps up our initial thoughts and reactions on Onyx Storm. Thank you so much for listening. Before we go, we want to give a special shout out to our newest Patreon members. Amanda T. Catherine J, LM Lindsay R, Larissa G, Barbara K, Ivana D, Jill S, Julie S, Kayla H. And Alina.

[Hannah]

Thank you all so much for supporting the podcast and helping us to continue to create high quality content. If you'd like to hear your name in a future episode, you can join our Feathertails Tier 3 over on Patreon. We'll make sure to shout you out in our next recorded episode as a Feather Tale. You'll also get exclusive ad free full video episodes with the option of audio only, early access to our regular season episodes and PDF resources including our fourth week and Iron Flame recap summaries and Carly's Onyx Storm Annotations, which we'll release weekly alongside our Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive plus more. If you would like to join but would prefer to keep your name private, just let us know. You can check out our Patreon linked down in the show notes to see all of the perks across our three tiers. We also have a base tier for general support donations. All of it is so much appreciated and if Patreon isn't for you, there are still plenty of ways to support us us leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify subscribing, recommending us to your fellow Empyrean readers and simply tuning in to each episode.

[Carly]

Thank you again for listening. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you are listening and join us for our next episode Breaking down and explaining the last chapters of Onyx Storm. Stay tuned for our Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive of Onyx Storm, where we will be deep diving into all things character scenes, theories, foreshadowing Easter eggs, lore and more.

[Hannah]

If you haven't already, check out our first season Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive on Fourth Wing through the Lens of Iron Flame. There are over 30 hours of binge worthy content to explore and it has timestamps down in the show notes in every episode if you'd like to jump around.

[Kinsey]

As always, we encourage you to email us all of your thoughts, theories and suggestions. Drop them below if you're listening on YouTube or join us over on our free Discord Group Chat.

[Hannah]

Until next time, Dearest fantasy readers, prepare yourselves for a breakdown of the Onyx Storm cliffhanger as we continue our journey through the Empyrean series.

[Carly]

Yay. Season three.

[Hannah]

We did it. Isn't that crazy?

[Carly]

We made it Season three. I thought prep season was gonna kill us.

[Kinsey]

It's our line we're better than ever.

[Hannah]

Made it out alive but I lost it Said that I was fine all right, I want to go to bed go to bed.