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Dear Fantasy Reader
Ep 1 The Ascended: Initial Thoughts & Reactions (The Sundered Realms Universe)
01:53:02
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- [00:00]
Jeff Bridges
Morning Zoe. Got donuts.
- [00:02]
Kinsey
Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?
- [00:05]
Jeff Bridges
Well I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me.
- [00:11]
Kinsey
So Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow.
- [00:24]
Jeff Bridges
Impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [00:31]
Kinsey
Nice je free.
- [00:32]
Carly
You heard them.
- [00:33]
Jeff Bridges
T Mobile is the best place to.
- [00:35]
T-Mobile Announcer
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
- [00:37]
Jeff Bridges
Us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for lunch?
- [00:42]
Kinsey
Dude, my work here is done.
- [00:44]
T-Mobile Announcer
The 24 month bill credit on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oklahoma Speed Test Intelligence Data 182025 Visit t mobile.com.
- [01:00]
Hannah
This holiday give the gift that says let's cancel plans and just lounge. Meundies has dropped a new holiday collection and it's made for maximum cozy. We're talking soft as snow, ultramodal fabric, festive prints and loungewear so comfy your couch might get jealous. Onesies, hoodies, joggers, even delightfully quirky holiday designs.
- [01:19]
Carly
You're welcome.
- [01:20]
Hannah
Knock out all your holiday gifting needs with deals up to 60% off@meundies.com comfort enter promo code comfort that's meundies.comfort code comfort dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.
- [01:44]
Kinsey
I'm Kinsey.
- [01:45]
Carly
And I'm Carly.
- [01:46]
Hannah
Join us as we enter the world of the Ascended, the first installment in the Asimmerian Duet, which released on October 7th of 2025 from authors Bri Greenwich and Parker Lennox. Today we'll be discussing our initial thoughts.
- [02:00]
Carly
And reactions with that content warning and spoiler alert. This episode is full of spoilers for the Ascended, so if you haven't read the book, go do that first.
- [02:08]
Kinsey
Also, due to the nature of this book, this podcast is rated R in content and language. If you'd like to watch this episode ad free and full video or audio only. If you would prefer, it's available now on Patreon and We've dropped that link in the show notes as well.
- [02:21]
Carly
In case you didn't know, the Ascended is part of the Sundered Universe, which also includes Riftborne and Dustbound from the Asprythian trilogy. These stories overlap in big ways, so we're going to structure this episode a little differently. We'll start by discussing the Ascended on its own, no outside spoilers, so even if this is your first book in the universe, you can listen freely. Then we'll give a clear spoiler warning before diving into how the Ascended connects to Riftborne and Dustbound. That way, if you read them all, you can stick around for the full Unhinged Spiral.
- [02:51]
Hannah
Before we jump in, we just want to take a second to say a huge thank you. This episode is sponsored by authors Bri Greenwich and Parker Lennox, who have been supporters of the Dear Fantasy Reader podcast since the early days. Like first month. We fell completely in love with their world and championed the stories they've created, and this sponsorship is their way of showing support. Right back. All of our thoughts, theories and spirals are 1000% honest and our own, but we are endlessly grateful for them for helping make this episode possible and for building a world that we will happily lose sleep over.
- [03:29]
Kinsey
We're also saving our wildest theories for a dedicated Sundered Universe Theories episode, which will include spoilers for all three books, so make sure to catch up on Riftborne and Duskbound before that one drops.
- [03:41]
Hannah
Okay, we're just diving right in. We have not been able to talk about this book. It's off the record at all and I have been waiting three months because I beta read this book to get Yalls reactions. So I'm gonna open the floor and I wanna know all of your favorite moments. We're gonna get to later, but all of your overall thoughts, feelings. How do you feel about this book? Kinsey, we'll start with you.
- [04:07]
Kinsey
I really enjoyed it. I'm a huge fan of books that have Easter eggs and crossing over into other series that the author has written. So every time I saw like a little clue I was like just like eating that up and highlighting every little thing. I've got so many highlights on my Kindle. It was a really fun read. I also felt like I kind of got like Hunger Games and like Serpent in the Wings of Nights vibes from this book, which to me the Hunger Games is like a God tier series. I was obsessed with it as a teenager. I still am. That was one of those books that I had to wait every single year for the new one to release. And so even though it's completely different, it just really gave me those kinds of vibes. So I really appreciated that. I also really liked a lot of the new characters that we got to experience, so it was really fun. It's a longer read, that's for sure. But it's worth it to get to the end.
- [04:59]
Hannah
I just have to say so. This book is my whole heart, and not all the time do I know for sure is gonna like the books that I like. And I knew I finished, and I told you both. I was like, I am confident you are gonna love this book. But I was still holding out, like, holding breath a little bit to just see. So that's why I told you to go first. Cause I'm like, I have to know that you also love this book. I'm so, like, I feel so validated that you love this book as much as I do.
- [05:23]
Carly
Yay.
- [05:24]
Hannah
Okay. Carly.
- [05:25]
Carly
Yeah. No, I really, really enjoyed this book a lot. I have a hard time sometimes with Romantasy. Cause it starts to feel a little same day, differently, different book, you know? And this was so refreshing. I love the concept of them, like, becoming gods. Like, that whole thing was really, really interesting to me. I ate it up. And Kinsey's right. Like, I feel like if you like Serpent in the Wings of Night, you're gonna eat this up.
- [05:56]
Hannah
I have not read that yet, but now I'm like, wait, that might put me onto it.
- [06:00]
Carly
Yeah.
- [06:01]
Kinsey
It's basically for those who don't know, it's by Carissa Broadbent. It is a V, but they go in these deadly trials, and it's like, there can only be one. But the winner gets a gift from their goddess, Nyaxia. And it can be whatever they want. And so they're, like, competing to get. It could be anything. Anything. And I won't say more. But, yeah, it's a very big deal if you win the trial. So it's pretty good.
- [06:29]
Carly
Yeah, it really gave me those same vibes. And I had so much fun reading that book. And so reading the Ascendant, like Kenzie said, it's very different. It just felt similarly as I was reading it, and I was, like, really enjoying it. And I think it maybe has my favorite side character ever.
- [06:48]
Hannah
Really?
- [06:50]
Carly
Yeah.
- [06:52]
Hannah
Do you want to say who that is, or do you want to hold it for our later questions?
- [06:56]
Carly
I'll hold it for our later questions.
- [06:57]
Hannah
I love your tease.
- [06:59]
Carly
Yeah. But I really hope if people are listening to this and they haven't read Riftborne and Dustbound yet. I really do hope you read Riftborne and Dustbound, because I loved the Ascended so much. And if you love the Ascended, like, you're gonna love Dustbound, like, you're gonna love Riftborne and Dustbound, you're especially gonna love Dustbound like it's. Please read them all so we can spiral together.
- [07:20]
Kinsey
I still think of the three. Duskbound is my favorite.
- [07:24]
Carly
Really?
- [07:25]
Kinsey
Yeah. But I really enjoyed the Ascended.
- [07:28]
Hannah
That's high Duskbound praise. Look, I. Okay, you guys haven't asked me yet, but I'm gonna say I fucking loved this book. Like, it is phenomenal in all these different areas, right? Like, the fact that it's so well balanced with the fantasy elements and the world building. The world building. And even if you haven't read Riftborne and Duskbound yet, like, you still get such a rich, immersive experience reading it, but then you have the romance. And while this is not my number one book, boyfriend, it's so good. And I fell in love with him. And I also felt like the side characters were so well developed that I was, like, really getting to understand, like, even the characters that you're not supposed to love, like, what their motivations are, which really stood out to me. Taking a step back a second, this was my second read, so I did beta read it about three months ago now. And that was the most effort I've ever put into anything, I think, in my life, because I saw the amount. I know that's crazy to say because I am an overachiever over here, which was reflected in the fact that I had 796 comments across multiple versions of the beta read that we worked through. It was a very, very detailed project. But the thing that I noticed page one was how, like, I'd never beta read before, but how strong the writing already was. I thought I was kind of walking into like, you know, a like, fresh first draft. Like, not super developed. And no, the characters that you getting to meet. There was some development after and through the stages, but already so early on, it was a masterpiece. And so I was like, this deserves as much energy as I can give it. And boy, I don't think anything has topped that experience. Then to see it completed, there weren't a ton of changes, which is, again, so impressive. And it just somehow got better. And I had already said, ending the beta, that that was the best book I'd ever read. And I think you were both very floored by that. Yeah, especially because Duskbound does have my heart. And there's things about Duskbound that I'm super attached to. So I just think their development between Riftborne to then Duskbound to then the Ascended, it's so fascinating to see their writing gets so much stronger, their characters get more developed, them start to play in a bigger arena, if you will, of this world. Like, I'm just so unbelievably proud of them. I'm not gonna get emotional right now, but I do think that that leads into what you were just saying, Carly, because I did want to say what I thought about the book. But if you haven't read Riftborn and Duskbound yet, I would be really shocked if anyone finished the Ascended and did not jump straight into Riftborn and Duskbound. But I'm also so excited to see what that experience is like for people who get to the end of this book and have like, who is this kind of moment and what that experience is like. So if anyone is listening and you haven't read it, clearly there's going to be part of this episode that you're going to have to come back to. But I would love, like, I want to hear from people who do, like, the reverse journey that we have. Feel free to reach out. Like, I would love to hear that.
- [10:40]
Carly
I'm very interested in that experience because obviously, like, you can't unread what you read and then write. Like. And that would be so interesting to see, like, what that experience is like and to know. So, yeah, I'm very interested in that. I thought about that the whole time I was reading it.
- [10:54]
Hannah
I'm like, I wonder what it would.
- [10:54]
Carly
Have been like to read this one first and then jump into Riftborne and Dustbound.
- [10:58]
Kinsey
Cause technically, it wouldn't spoil Riftborne, but Dustbound would be a totally different experience.
- [11:05]
Hannah
Totally different experience. And I wonder what that experience is like. And there's nothing that. The thing about this and reading orders in general across series is that you can't ever have both experiences to compare contrast. So you're only ever getting advice from someone who's done only one and you're only getting to experience that. So that's just their experience of Duskbound, period. And I just wonder what that is like. I will say, though, only reading the Ascended is such a strong starting point for your first impression of Parker and Brie. I love Riftborne, but you can absolutely see their progression as authors and their strength as they grow, which is a beautiful journey to go on alongside them as you read this. But then you're kind of flipping that and you're making a sandwich with Grimborn. I just wonder what that experience is like.
- [11:57]
Kinsey
Yeah, I usually just tell people to go in what the author recommends, whether that's the Hunger Games series, now that there are prequels even like Divine Rivals, Ruthless Vows, now there's a prequel as well. And Rebecca Ross says read Wild Reverence after those, like the mass verse. There's so many different series where fans will argue and argue and argue. But if you go to an author's website or look at their interviews, nine times out of ten they tell you exactly how to read it. And it's always gonna be publication order.
- [12:27]
Hannah
Whoa, that's interesting. Yeah, it happens to be the way that they wrote the series. And I don't wanna get too much into this because I want people to be able to hear more of our thoughts on the book itself. But whoever's listening has already read the ascended, right? Like there's no take backs for what the order they are going in. But there's such value in conversations that I've had with Parker and Brie about, you know, they recommend Riftborne, Dustbound, Ascended, but some people don't want to commit to three. So if you're going to commit to one, ascended is a hell of a place to start. It just stands so solidly on its own. Anyways, so what point did this book hook you?
- [13:05]
Carly
I feel like Kenzie and I are going to have the same answer.
- [13:08]
Kinsey
I know we have the same answer.
- [13:09]
Carly
Yeah, Kenzie, go ahead.
- [13:10]
Kinsey
Three, two.
- [13:10]
Hannah
No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, right?
- [13:12]
Kinsey
It was when Thatcher blew up the God.
- [13:14]
Hannah
Yeah, that happened.
- [13:18]
Carly
And I was like, oh, damn. Okay. Awesome.
- [13:22]
Kinsey
The stakes just rose so much. Not only did he find out, oh fuck. I also have abilities. I'm blessed. I mean, we know that they weren't just blessed, they're demigods, but killing a God, it's like, oh shit. Because it's like, are they gonna execute him? What's gonna happen now? What's the target on their back gonna be like during these trials? So raised the stakes a lot and I was really there for it.
- [13:49]
Carly
Yeah, I loved that moment. I was like, oh, this is the moment. Like, you know when you read a book and you're like, this is gonna be the moment. Everybody's like texting their book bestie, have you gotten to this chapter yet? Have you gotten to page 100 or whatever it is like, people freaking out, like, have you gotten here yet? Cause I need to talk about it. Cause I was like convinced he had magic. Cause his sister was.
- [14:12]
Kinsey
There's no way, like, there was no Way their father's a God. Like, come on.
- [14:17]
Hannah
But blowing up a God, I did.
- [14:20]
Carly
Not see that coming. And it gave me the same feeling. I can't say what it is because it's a major spoiler for another book, but y' all are know what I'm talking.
- [14:29]
Hannah
Yes, I already know exactly what you're talking.
- [14:31]
Carly
The vacuum moment. Yes.
- [14:35]
Kinsey
Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.
- [14:38]
Carly
I won't even say what book it is because I don't want to spoil it for people, but it gave me, if you know what I'm talking about, the vacuum memes. Like, it gave me those feelings. When I read that moment was so good.
- [14:48]
Kinsey
It definitely Hannah's just like, what?
- [14:51]
Hannah
Well, I thought I knew, and then I realized really quick that, nope, that was not what it wanted to do.
- [14:55]
Kinsey
Yeah, no, it's one of those moments.
- [14:58]
Carly
Yes. You'll love it when you read it, Hannah.
- [15:00]
Hannah
I'm excited. Yeah.
- [15:01]
Carly
So, Hannah, when were you hooked? Like, what was the moment where you were like, oh, boy, here we go.
- [15:08]
Hannah
This is hard because normally I'm not, like, so detail oriented in every single line for a book. So my first experience was the beta. Right. So for me, I. Page one literally went back and looked at all my comments yesterday. Just a refresh on the differences and stuff. And page one, I was already saying, I'm in love with Thatcher. Like, deadass. Page one. I have proof. But I also thought that the way that we got to meet Saltcrest and be in that little town and meet her dad. Her dad is where I was like, guys, if you do something to him, like, you're gonna make me cry. This is not gonna be like a fun time. So the anticipation and dread of that coming and that happening was where it hit for me. I also really liked Meryl. Is that his name at the beginning? That's his name. I think the first love interest that she's like, not really. I really loved those scenes. And I was like, wait, you know, normally you're led to not like the first love interest to make way for the mmc. But I was like, wait, he's a sweetie. So I was starting to fall for characters really early on in ways that I don't normally do now. Is that because I'm paying extra special detailed attention, whereas normally I'm just free balling a book? I don't know. But I do lean to. It's their writing and how they made me fall for them. So pretty early for me. But I think I was biased. Yeah. But I can admit it. When I am.
- [16:41]
Carly
Yeah, that's okay. You can be biased. It doesn't take away from the joy and the love of reading it. And that's what matters. Read for the joy of it.
- [16:50]
Hannah
Yeah. You're just gonna hear us talk about how good Duskbound is this whole as well, this whole episode. But it gave me the feelings, like, the deep connection to characters and investment that Dustbound gave me just, like, a little earlier, I think. And so, yeah, I freaking love this book. Apparently we were all hooked pretty early on, I would say, which is a great, great feeling to have in a 7, 800 page book.
- [17:18]
Carly
I was in it to win it on this one.
- [17:20]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [17:21]
Carly
I'm very curious of what everybody thought of thus, because I really enjoyed her. I found her to be, like, a very interesting, very complex character. And I found her so refreshing. And I'm just, like, curious, like, what you guys thought of Thayest. Because I thought she was so much fun to read because, like, she was feisty, but smart and calculating. And I was like, I'm here for it. Because, like, there's a moment we'll get into the spoiler section, more spoiler parts. But, like, there is a part where she's, like, reading something and she's instantly like, oh, this is important. I'm like, yes, thank you for noticing. That was important. Cause I feel like so many times you're reading a book and FMC is hearing information. She's just like, whatever, and moves on. I'm like, no, girl, did you hear what they just said?
- [18:10]
Hannah
That's gonna be super important later. No, she's on a mission. And I love that, and I really enjoy that. Her motivations were really well developed as well. Right. All of her decisions seemed to align with her goals.
- [18:25]
Kinsey
Yeah, I like that. Thayess knew what her goals were and she just stuck to it. She's like, you know what? I'm gonna kill my father, and I'm gonna protect my brother, and I'm gonna do whatever it takes and maybe I'll fuck this God in the middle and, like, just, like, do my thing. So I really appreciated that as well. And I liked seeing, too, how her powers progressed throughout the trials and her training. So I thought that was really cool.
- [18:52]
Carly
Yeah, I really appreciated how dedicated she was. She made a choice, she stuck to it. She went after her goal of stopping the King of the Gods. And she was so dedicated to her brother. And I love the sibling dynamic in.
- [19:10]
Hannah
This part for her.
- [19:11]
Carly
I really enjoyed that part of her that was so dedicated and attached to her. Brother. And you really felt that the whole time. And I just loved her as a character. I think she was really, really believable as a sister, as a woman with a revenge plot. And I was here for it. I was here for, like, the protective sibling slash revenge getter. I was like, yes, I want more of this. I love a plot that's about revenge. I'm here for it.
- [19:45]
Hannah
One of my favorite parts about her character, I think, was emphasized in her dynamic with Thatcher. Like, you're saying how much she prioritized him in all aspects and her family before she lost her father. And you got to see how her character changed after that. And then, of course, we get this drastic traumatic experience at the end. And I'm really not looking forward to. But very much so looking forward to seeing how she handles the next however many years. I think it said 36 until we have the potential for her to find him again because she's so strong throughout. But then how do you. That's, like, catastrophic. How do you handle that? And I'm really, really intrigued to see her character growth in that as well.
- [20:30]
Carly
Yeah, I'm very excited for what the next book will be like, the way it left her. I think that the end of the book, like, that immense grief that was written so well, with that spark of hope at the end, she's like, I have this point, this point in time, and I have to get there. I am so excited for what the next book is gonna bring. I know. I can't wait. Because, like, the only thing she was more dedicated to than her revenge plot was her brother. Yes. So I am excited to see what she is willing to do to be reunited with him, which I feel like will be anything, and I am here for it.
- [21:12]
Kinsey
I'm really stoked for that. Like, that's, like, the ending I just keep going back to and thinking about. I'm like, well, I want her to do. But then I can't have it end this way because I need this to also happen. And so, like, it's just, like, really difficult for me to, like, work through it, I suppose. But, yeah, no, it's great. I love their bond.
- [21:33]
Carly
I feel like oftentimes, at the end of a lot of books, I don't feel more excited for the next one than I was the last one. But this one, I'm like, give me that book now.
- [21:47]
Kinsey
No.
- [21:48]
Carly
The fact that we have to wait for book two is criminal, and I will be pressing charges.
- [21:54]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [21:56]
Hannah
Really early on, we got introduced to their twin bond, and I really kind of liked that flip of usually we see it in a romantic sense. And I really, really liked to see it in a play on the twin telepathy. Right. I feel like it enhanced the book so much in the conversations they were able to have. It was such a strategic tool for Brien Parker to use, and I think it was done so, so well. And you also got to know so much about Thayas, is kind of what I was saying to introduce. This is like, you got to know so much about who she is and what she's willing to do for him and how close they are through that which every single one of us, I think I at least know. Carly said, you aligned with me in thinking throughout the book. I am terrified he's gonna die. Something is like, they are so close.
- [22:48]
Kinsey
I wasn't.
- [22:48]
Hannah
They're so.
- [22:49]
Kinsey
Oh, wow. I was confident.
- [22:51]
Hannah
Well, that's shocking. Oh, pretty early on. Okay.
- [22:53]
Kinsey
Oh, like, immediately.
- [22:55]
Hannah
Yeah. So we'll talk about that in the spoiler section. But it was very ominous. Something bad was gonna happen. Right. But I really liked that, and I really liked how you could. It was utilized in trials and, like, they were having, like, these secret telepathic meetings in the middle of these, like, when they actually did get to see each other. And I also liked really getting to see the limitations for distance and things of that nature. And I'm super excited to see how that plays out, assuming they are reunited. But I want to know what you guys, again, were saving spoilers. But listeners do know. They've read Ascended. They know that he's Aether. They just don't know who Aether is. So what did you think about Thatcher in the context of this book? Specifically, no influence. Try not to be super influenced by what we know about him outside of it.
- [23:47]
Kinsey
I mean, going back to the bond part first, before I get into Thatcher, I was really grateful for it because I was a little suspicious of him at times because I was wondering if he would betray her in the end or he would end up falling for their father's influence and maybe he would be, like, exiled or punished in that way. So it was nice knowing that with listening ears everywhere, they could at least communicate mind to mind. And nobody else could eavesdrop. And, like, she could feel his intentions as well through the Bond. And so she's. She could remain confident in her trust for Thatcher, which I really appreciated that because I was still suspicious. But for me, I felt like he needed a lot of rescuing. And at times he was a little clueless and maybe not paying attention to how he was presenting himself to others, which led into them trying to kill him later on in the Trials. But we gotta also give him a break because he didn't know that he had powers.
- [24:52]
Hannah
I felt like, again, literally, page one, I had a comment saying, I already have a crush. Like, what is happening? How are you guys already? Which, in retrospect. But I loved all of his moments. He was so happy and not genuinely carefree, but he acted carefree. He was very. Sunshine is, I think, a good word to explain his personality. And that was something that I immediately was drawn to and loved that there's this mutual aspect for his devotion to Thayer. And I think what really hooked me early on with his character was this factor that he, because of Thayer's power and the danger that she would be in, never got close to anyone, was never in a genuine romantic relationship because he couldn't get attached, because of needing to focus on protecting her, and he couldn't let anybody get close. And so early on, I was already like, oh, my God, I've, like, my heart is just wide open for him. And so the more that we go through the book, I'm just like, this is happening to the most innocent of characters. And it just got worse and worse and worse. I could talk about him all day, though.
- [26:14]
Carly
I'm with you, Hannah. I really appreciated how dedicated he was to his sister, his family. And, yeah, there was, like, this element of, like, carefreeness that he had as, like, you know, an oyster farmer and, like, slacking off and, like, going to, you know, the bars and things like that. And like, just he, like, presented himself as this way, but it was like, that was like, his outlet, in a way, because he had these other very pressing responsibilities on him. And I felt for him. Cause it's like he gets drugged to these trials, thinking he has no power, and then it's like. And then all of a sudden, he blows up a God, and he's like, did I do that?
- [26:57]
Hannah
And then him. His internal conflict of what that looks like, that that's your power, right? That it's just not. It's obliterating, it's destroying. It's destructive, right?
- [27:08]
Carly
Yeah.
- [27:09]
Hannah
And it's such. In contrast to his personality at that point. Right. So you have him also trying to look out for Thais, and then their father dies in front of them, and she blacked out, but he didn't. And so, like, he's dealing with the grief of that. He gets thrown in and finds out, like, you're saying he has this power that is so destructive and then he's taken by literally, like, his brother, who he can't tell is his brother. And he even finds in his POV chapters, like, he's empathizing for this brother who has grown up with all of these things, but also none of. Of the things that really, truly matter that Thatcher in some ways does have with Thay's. And so to see him be able to, after everything his father has done to them and their whole lives, like, just, you know, set them up for failure. To see him still have that sort of empathy for Shavor is. I don't know. Like, I just. I loved his character progression at every point. Like, even at the end, he's got Thayus in mind, right? Like, that's his goal, is protecting and saving her. And I just. I thought, like, as a. As a duo for main characters, he and Thayas, they're just incredible. They're incredibly well written, and they balance each other so well. And also, you know, I'll save the rest. Yeah, I will put a pin in that.
- [28:37]
Kinsey
Yeah, I guess. Just, like, my only things that I didn't like about him were in the second and third trial, specifically, just because, like, Thatcher was always on Thayess's mind at all times, but she was always the one, like, I need to go to Thatcher. I need to get Thatcher. But he, like, wasn't, like, always, like, reciprocating that or, like, he was busy, like, at the party. He, like, went and got lost and then, like, started doing his thing. And then, like, she, like, went to go rescue him and, like, with the second trial, like, she was telling him where to go to get the stuff and then, like, what to do when he would, like, grab the keys and things like that. So maybe, like, I just was expecting a little bit more from him there, but, like, I did really appreciate him, like, as they were growing up and then, like, getting those point of views and seeing those mental struggles and just how they were in that, like, last chapter that they were together as well and, like, going through the trials. I just wish that we got to see them interacting more on page together throughout the trials. I just wanted a little bit more there.
- [29:40]
Hannah
I do have to agree with the wanting them together a little bit more, but I have to tell you, you both read the acknowledgments.
- [29:47]
Kinsey
Yes, I did.
- [29:48]
Hannah
So Thatcher POVs did not exist in the beta read at all. And through Mary and I's feedback, who's another beta reader and also our friend, I was saying the whole time how much I wanted more of that character, wanted to see it more on the page, wanted to see their dynamic more, and it was still integrated in there. She thought about him a lot, but I was like, I miss him on this page, or what's going on with him or things like that. And Mary was also expressing that she was suspicious. She was becoming suspicious of him. So that is actually why we ended up getting those POV chapters, which I have to say has got to be one of the best things to ever receive credit for. And also at the same time, I feel like those chapters, the way that Parker and Brie wove them in and the insights that we got to get through them, I couldn't picture the book without it now. They're just so imperative. And I love how they took our comments because it wasn't. Hey, can we get POVs? Right? They did that. Right. But just the way that they wove that in, I just. Can you tell I love the book. Have I said that before?
- [31:01]
Carly
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm glad we got the Thatcher POVs. I do think that they were helpful. And after I read the acknowledgements, I was like, oh, it would have been interesting to read this book. What was the experience without them? And I was trying to think of what that experience would be. But again, it's hard to know because I read them.
- [31:17]
Hannah
We were both early, early, early in this, so it didn't go out to other people. And to just clarify on this, that I would get X amount of chapters in, and they were actively looking at my feedback as I went, as they were continuing to edit and rewrite the rest of it. And so by the time I actually, there's a couple chapters they went and plugged in earlier that I just went and read when I got the second half, because I got it in stages and stuff, so I technically still had, like, a hybrid experience where I still didn't. I finished the book having had all of the Thatcher POVs.
- [31:51]
Carly
Oh, okay.
- [31:52]
Hannah
So there wasn't, like. I don't know what the experience would have been like to just have read it all the way through because it wasn't fully done by the time we got the betas, like, really, really early. So I can't quite speak to that. But yeah, I just think it fits so, so well. And also Katie said to me a couple weeks ago when she first started it that I would really love a Thatcher book. And I was like, you know, I would really love a Thatcher book, too. And I won't say anything else about why that is.
- [32:23]
Kinsey
So.
- [32:23]
Carly
Okay.
- [32:25]
Hannah
All right, okay. So taking a step back, what was your reaction to their dad Cillian's death? Cause that happened really, really early.
- [32:32]
Carly
I was really sad about it.
- [32:35]
Hannah
They made us love him.
- [32:37]
Carly
He had, like, sacrificed everything. Cause he loved their mother so much. And he loved them, and he raised them as if they were his own. And he didn't have to do that. He did that because he wanted to, because of the love and care he had for them, because of the love and care he had for their mother. And I just thought that that was really beautiful. And then, you know, they murder him in the book.
- [32:59]
Hannah
So how it happened, Parker. Brie. It's so traumatic. Oh, I was heartbroken. And it happened. I have to say, it happened sooner than I expected. I thought that was gonna be like a gut punch later. Like a save this. It's gonna, you know, for emotional destruction later in the book. No, no, they didn't wait long.
- [33:21]
Carly
I mean, it was good revenge fuel. Like, I understand why it was done when it was done. I never expect parents in a fantasy novel to survive. But that being said, having him be murdered in front of them and his last words to them being that he loves them and doesn't regret it, basically, I was just like, I'm sorry. Yeah. Did you kiss that rock before you threw it straight at our face?
- [33:46]
Hannah
Like, my God, no. And they made us love him so fast, too, is the thing.
- [33:53]
Carly
Yeah, Yeah.
- [33:54]
Kinsey
I anticipated it, but I was still, like, really sad. Just the other day, actually, I was like, oh, my God, is this, like, one of the only fantasy books I've ever read where the parents are alive? And I won't say which book, but it is so rare. Carly, you're so. It's just like, yeah, the punishment for harboring blessed people is death. And so I was just kind of like, it's not if, it's when. And I think that as far as the pacing of the story goes, it was really well done. And it happened when I was expecting it to. And it was really sad. But, yeah, it just needed to happen. Do it for the plot.
- [34:35]
Hannah
I totally knew it was going to. I was just like, I'm an optimistic reader. Even if I see it coming, I'm like, please don't. But then, in retrospect, on a reread, there's so many aspects about this book that I got to the end, and I was like, I'm so heartbroken about this. How could you do this? And now I reread it, and I'm like, actually, this was, like, the perfect way to do Every single one of these things. I just hate crying.
- [34:59]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [35:00]
Hannah
But I also love it.
- [35:01]
Kinsey
I didn't cry, which is surprising because I'm usually, like, a huge crier in books, but I have a lot of highlights, specifically from the beginning where I would highlight and say, like, oh, like, I love their familial love. Like, it's very cute. Because I feel like a lot of authors tend to focus on romantic love and not necessarily, like, love between siblings and parents and friends and things like that. Well, I guess we do get a lot of friends.
- [35:24]
Hannah
They found a way to do that with every relationship in this, which is, like, type. And I love that.
- [35:29]
Carly
Yeah.
- [35:29]
Kinsey
So I. I definitely was, like. I loved, like, the relationship. And when he was like, I love you more than all the stars in the sky, and I was just like, it's so sweet. And he's their adoptive father. And like, you had said, Hannah, like, he didn't need to, like, take care of them because, like, it wasn't their child. But, like, yeah, it was good. It was sad. It was necessary.
- [35:50]
Hannah
But, yeah, also how they described him as being like, his body was, like, giving out. Cause of how hard he'd worked for all those years. And that shit gets me quick. So, yeah, no, I was immediately heartbroken how it happened. And then to be in, you know, to experience Thaos grief right after, which we see, like, capitalized on at the end. You just. The pacing and trajectory of this book just kept going up and in the stakes and all. Oh, my gosh.
- [36:22]
Carly
Their authors are criminals. That's just criminal author behavior.
- [36:28]
Hannah
But I also love every moment. So it's like, oh, that's the thing.
- [36:32]
Carly
It's like we get.
- [36:33]
Hannah
I'm giving you feedback here to kill.
- [36:37]
Carly
But I want every moment of it.
- [36:39]
Hannah
All the torture. Yes.
- [36:42]
Carly
I feel like we chastise authors, but then we're still like. But give me more. All right.
- [36:49]
Hannah
You know, it's my favorite time of every initial reactions episode. Time to talk about the mmc. Why do we. That's so on brand for me. Right.
- [36:59]
Carly
Okay.
- [36:59]
Hannah
How do we feel about Zool?
- [37:02]
Kinsey
I like him, and I like that he. He shares a lot in common with Tha's. Like, he's. He's the. He's the son of a mortal and a God. So, like, we have that. Like, he's. He shouldn't be alive technically. Like, is that something that's forbidden in, like, the God realm? So I really like that he is a man. He is. I. I love the way that he looks and acts. And of course, it's the prince of death, but, yeah, he's great. I want to know why one of his eyes is black instead of gold. Because every other God has gold eyes.
- [37:36]
Hannah
I'm blanking on that, but I think it's explained.
- [37:39]
Kinsey
Oh, is it?
- [37:40]
Hannah
Yeah, I'm pretty certain it is. And I cannot believe that I've read this book twice, and that detail is, like, slipping my mind right now. I think it does have to do with. It's either his parents and how he's like, half of the God, but I feel like it's something to do with his.
- [37:57]
Kinsey
It was probably in the beta read part because I don't know if that was explained at all. But if it's because they're half God, then that means Thatcher and thay should have also had.
- [38:08]
Hannah
No, but his is like a black abyss. Like, I'm pretty certain that something. Maybe it is something that's not been explained yet, but I thought it had, but yeah, I'm always trying to be so careful as we go through this, because I even asked Parker and Brie, I'm like, were there changes that you took out that you don't want people to know about? Because these blend and they don't think so, and I don't think so. Not that it's substantial enough, but, yeah, that might be something that did get taken out.
- [38:33]
Kinsey
Kylie, do you remember that?
- [38:34]
Carly
I don't remember there being an explanation for it, and I remember also thinking it was odd. And I clocked it. I always clocked this now because you have heterochromia and you have two different colored eyes.
- [38:43]
Kinsey
So I was like, is the insp me? No, I'm just kidding. Parker and Br are gonna be like, no.
- [38:50]
Hannah
Secretly. Yes.
- [38:53]
Kinsey
Yeah. No, I clock that.
- [38:55]
Carly
Yeah.
- [38:55]
Hannah
But, you know, it also could be that I had a theory about it and just I internalized it as fact instead of my suspicions and, like, what my mind jumped to. So I never really can remember exactly things. Exactly things like that I love Zool's personality. They're a little bit more mean to each other than is, like, my personal thing. But I think that fit so well for them and their dynamics and, like, their control dynamics, which we can get to here in just a bit with our favorite moments and such. But two things. One, I am not a prince of death, girly. I like shadow daddies, but, like, when it comes to dead, I'm like, oh, this is a little. This is not for me. I'm like, too pastel, princess. But he pulls it off so well. It's Hot because it's him. And you guys know I just love a devotional mmc. And the Savannah Wrath. Are you fucking kidding? That just took their relationship up so much for me. I love that it's more of a chosen mates kind of thing. If it is similar in concept to almost like Fae bargains, I don't know. But I love that little twist on it. And he had some lines that I was like, oh, this is intense. This is fantastic. And their chapter 51, again, I'll hold off on talking about most of it, but their dynamic and just him opening up and getting to see these different sides of him with his family. And then their sex scenes and like all this, like, I think it was so beautifully written. And I love them and I love them for each other. And the end makes me so sad they didn't end up together, like, yet.
- [40:26]
Carly
I guess Zuul was like, I did not like him at first and I had a hard time with him. And I was like, I don't know about this one. And then they made me love him. Yes. So I was very impressed that they made me love him as much as I do. Because I was like, in the beginning was like, he is not it for me. I don't like the way he treats people. I really didn't like the way he treated his servants. That was a whole concept that really bothered me. But I really came to understand him as a character that felt like he had to play this part because he didn't feel like he fit here. And he was trying to play this part because he had this bigger agenda. And I was like, okay, I'm starting to feel him. And I really, really liked him. And I was really surprised how far I swung from, ugh, this guy. Not for me to. Damn, this guy.
- [41:21]
Hannah
Might be for me.
- [41:22]
Carly
Yeah.
- [41:23]
Hannah
I have to say, I think the way that you put that is exactly what I was like. I chalked it up to him being the Prince of Death. And again, them being almost mean dynamic, not just to each other. But yes, you're right. And I think that that feeds like enemies to lovers kind of vibes. Right. Like we say we want that, but then they fall so quickly for each other. And you don't see anything wrong with this MMC who supposedly was like, super morally gray. And I think that they did a really good job of painting him as that and then giving him good motivations and backstory.
- [41:48]
Kinsey
I like how he only opened up for her and only trusted her, even just at the candy shop and things like that. But you brought up earlier, the bond that he had made. And it kills me that he's like, she can't even know. I'm not even gonn. Like, that kills me. But, yeah, I really like that. He's this big, tough guy for everybody but her, and so she's the only one that knows his true side.
- [42:14]
Hannah
There's this moment toward the end that so stood out to me, and it's not in our favorite moments later, but it kind of ties in to exactly what you're talking about, where she is hugging. They're hugging at the end. And she says something along the lines of, it feels like he's holding back an ocean of. Or something like that. And it's literally her pain. He's literally masking her own pain that he's feeling because it's not just physical. Right. He also says he feels her fears and her worries, and again, she's going through catastrophic trauma, and he's just receiving all of that on top of being forced to go marry someone that is not her when he had already made up this in his mind that that is who he chose, which is big for him. And what we know and understand about his character, who was very detached from everyone and everything for, you know, reasons to prevent things like this. So I agree fullheartedly that, like, by the end, I'd come to love him. And it did take me, like, a little bit, but I also was, like, very in love with Thatcher. And I was like, wait. I think early on I was like, am I more in love with her brother? This feels weird.
- [43:17]
Kinsey
Definitely during the book, I was like, is it weird to like her brother? Like, it feels incestuous. Even though it's definitely not.
- [43:26]
Carly
It's not because you're.
- [43:27]
Hannah
At least for me, I'm very much so wanting to be the fmc. Like, I am treating myself as her. And so there were times so early where I literally felt that, and I was like, this feels like I'm doing something wrong by loving him as much as I do. And especially that was capitalized on by, like, loving him more than Zuul at first. I still have to say I love him more.
- [43:51]
Carly
You're consistent.
- [43:52]
Hannah
Extremely. Thank you. Thank you.
- [43:57]
Carly
Yeah. All right. Okay.
- [43:58]
Hannah
We'll move forward with that note, though. We're going to save the rest. We're saving the rest. That was half of my comments. At least I'm consistent. All right, all right, all right. We are going to take it just really quick because I know that this was such a monumental moment for you guys. What were your actual Reactions outside of just being hooked to Thatcher killing Dracor, which is the God that he just obliterated, it was mostly.
- [44:24]
Carly
Let's fucking go.
- [44:26]
Kinsey
Let's fucking go. I was gonna say. Fuck, yeah.
- [44:28]
Hannah
Fuck, yeah. Okay. I think that really represents it. I think that's it. All right, let's talk about one of the best side characters in this book, Marx, who also, if you'd like to know the name, if not, that's okay. Had a different name on the beta read, so that was trippy. Oh, okay.
- [44:46]
Carly
Yeah. I am in love with Marx.
- [44:50]
Hannah
Oh.
- [44:51]
Carly
Like, I love her. She's my favorite side character ever. I feel like I've never related to a side character so much where I'm like, that's my type of humor. That's like. Like, oftentimes side characters are so funny. Like, Riddick is so funny. But I wouldn't make those jokes. I would make Marxist jokes.
- [45:10]
Hannah
No. And I totally see that. Yes. You're also, like, that kind of friend that she is. Very much so.
- [45:16]
Carly
She's my ultimate side character, and I'm.
- [45:19]
Kinsey
On the other end of the spectrum. I still don't trust her. I was suspicious of her the entire time, and she barely survived the ascending part of the thing. Like, she was, like, smoking and stuff. So I was like, oh, is there, like, some part of her that, like, shouldn't have, like, progressed onward? And I don't know if it's just, like, because of what her powers are like with cursing people, but there's always, like, a part of me that's like, how do we know if Marx has cursed Thais or Thatcher or, like, literally anybody? And she was just around for, like, every big secret, and it just, like, whenever there's, like, huge secrets, like a rebellion, I get super anxious in a story because I'm just like, that's gonna come out. It's gonna get. Which thank God it came out by the end of the book. Right. Because Moros. Right. But just the entire time, I was like, you can't tell her that you're the daughter of the king of the gods, and you can't tell her about the rebellion and this and that she was just a fly on the wall for everything, and she knew all the bad stuff, and her literal power is cursing, and it just stressed me out, and I just kept expecting her to betray them at some point. So I don't know. I'm holding my reservations for her.
- [46:39]
Hannah
I have two thoughts, and first, let me say that's completely valid. I totally see why you feel that way. So these two thoughts are not supposed to be invalidating, but one, who do you ever not find suspicious?
- [46:53]
Kinsey
Lots of characters.
- [46:56]
Hannah
Maybe it's just because we talk about the characters we find the most suspicious, like, all the time. But that's unsurprising to me that you feel that way about her. Two, again, I think that it makes a lot of sense that she literally was there as, like, she heard all these things. I think part of what makes her character so fascinating and has depth to it is that we get to see that that's how people assume, like, make assumptions about her. They assume that because of her power, that she is deceitful or that she is evil. And that's why we get to see her sort of be afraid. Even when her closest friend finds out that what she did to her family and cursed them. And we get to see. I found that to be such a great moment between these two female characters who only really have each other, because I see her as sort of like, first of all, Brie and Parker love a found family. That is what gives sort of solace that I don't think that she's suspicious. But maybe that is the case. And again, I'm just an optimistic reader when it comes to characters that I love, but I think that she kind of played the role of being like a chosen family member when Thay's didn't have anyone in close proximity to be that she just lost her father and then her brother was taken to another domain. Right. And so I think that she was a necessary element and that Thayas could only really confide in her that it wasn't Zul. And we did find out that there was like this betrayal kind of arc that it was kind of flipped on its head. But from Zuul, that would have sort of felt, as a reader, at least in my opinion, like, okay, but we don't have anyone to hold onto to ground sort of how we're experiencing this book as we went through. And I feel like Mark's played that a lot. And I also want to not say that I think it's gonna be betrayal because I just told Carly to her face that Marks reminds me of her. So I know.
- [48:38]
Kinsey
Which is why I laughed. Which is why I laughed because, like, I obviously love Carly and I trust her with everything, but I. Yeah, I think, like, too. What gets me is that it wasn't an allyship of choice. It was of convenience. And I think if they weren't in the same realm, then I don't know if they would have ever become Allies. It was just like, Xull kept leaving her at the beginning, and so she was forced to train with her. And that's the only reason that Marx found out all of those secrets. So it's kind of like it was forced onto her. And so I was just like, I don't know. I think we're a little bit too trusting when you're literally trying to kill the king of the gods.
- [49:15]
Carly
Well.
- [49:15]
Hannah
And I think that looking at characters like that, it makes for a more exciting experience. Right. Can this happen? And it kind of sets you up to really want to know that character more is what I hear, is that you want to know more about Marx and figure out if she's.
- [49:32]
Carly
Yeah.
- [49:33]
Kinsey
And she did make me laugh. I still liked scenes with her in it.
- [49:37]
Hannah
I just.
- [49:38]
Kinsey
I don't know if we can fully trust her.
- [49:40]
Carly
I don't care. Kenzie and I talked about this a little earlier, and I was like, oh, yeah, no, there's a lot of stuff that's suspicious. Cause, yeah, she's in on way too much information. But baby girl can do no wrong. Okay.
- [49:54]
Kinsey
Like, if you. You.
- [49:56]
Carly
She's gotta, like, do things for her. Okay.
- [49:59]
Hannah
Yeah. I have to do that, though.
- [50:00]
Kinsey
Like, kill her entire family.
- [50:02]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [50:03]
Carly
She is the main character of her own story, and I'm okay with it.
- [50:06]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [50:07]
Carly
I want her book.
- [50:11]
Kinsey
Coming soon.
- [50:12]
Carly
Maybe Thais is the bad guy here. Okay.
- [50:15]
Hannah
Maybe it's really Mark's. I mean, the end of this book could definitely make a great villain origin story.
- [50:24]
Carly
Like, I would eat that shit up.
- [50:26]
Hannah
Okay, I know.
- [50:29]
Carly
I want that, but I want Marx's books. She can do no wrong. She's my homegirl, and I don't care what she does. I will forgive her.
- [50:38]
Hannah
I love that for all of us. I love that we all have, like, a slightly different take on characters, and this is a perfect example of that. I love it. Okay, so we have to talk about the trials. Kinsey, I think, out of all. Wait, I don't think I know that. Who is more of a Trials girl? Are you kind of both equally Trials? Yeah, Kenzie. Yeah, that was my instinct.
- [51:04]
Kinsey
I love a good quest as well, but, like, I love trials. I think they're fun.
- [51:08]
Hannah
Okay, you want to lead this section? You want to talk about. Talk about the trials and what you liked about it.
- [51:12]
Kinsey
I mean, I'll just start off by saying my favorite was the third one because you weren't, like, expecting it to happen, and it was just kind of like a surprise sneak attack.
- [51:21]
Hannah
Oh, see, I did see that one coming.
- [51:23]
Kinsey
I'm always anticipating it whenever they send invitations. But I was still like, they haven't figured it out yet. And with the whole don't drink that. But I thought because it messed with their minds the most. I really, really enjoyed that.
- [51:38]
Hannah
Yes.
- [51:39]
Kinsey
But I guess starting with the hunt, I mean, I still don't really understand, I guess, why they. No, never mind. I lied. I do understand why they had to kill the things because that's what they needed to make their alchemy stuff. But I thought it was really cool. And I liked having them in real time being like, oh, shoot, we can't attack them and we can't do this and we need to go. So they were working through it. They didn't automatically know every single answer. I was like, I really hope that they don't permanently have these horns stuck to them, because that would suck.
- [52:13]
Hannah
That really freaked. Freaked me out. I'm not even gonna lie. I was like, wait, I don't want horns.
- [52:18]
Kinsey
Yeah. It reminded me of that scene in Game of Thrones where, like, she, like, pours the gold. Like, she melted the crown or something. Like, poured it on her brother's head. And I was like, like. But yeah, no, I thought that was cool. It took him way too long, though, to figure out that they were the prey. I'm like, girl, they literally told you that you.
- [52:36]
Hannah
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carly, do you have a favorite?
- [52:39]
Carly
My favorite was the illusion dreams.
- [52:41]
Hannah
Oh.
- [52:41]
Carly
Because, like, there was a moment where she was explaining, like, oh, it can change your dreams and things like that. And I was like, oh, this is. I. I was like, right at the end when she, like, right after, because she was about to, like, go in, and I texted Kenzie. I was like, girl, you need to let me know you get to this chapter, because I'm about to watch a show. Because I was like, oh, this is gonna be good. Because I knew that, like, shit was about to go down with, like, everything that they were drinking and that nothing was quite real. And one of my favorite things in a book is when you don't know what's real and you can't trust the main character's narration of what they're experiencing because they don't know it's not real. There's a YA fantasy book, the Care of All series, where the tagline is, remember, it's just a game. Because the whole time that the characters are in this plot, that they're in this taking part in this game, and they don't know what's real and what's not. And it's One of my favorite aspects of that book. And so anytime there's a book where there's a moment where the whole thing is, you don't know what's real and what's not, that is my favorite thing. So that and subterfuge. Those are my favorite things. So a revenge plot with a trial.
- [53:56]
Hannah
Where you don't know what's real and what's not.
- [53:58]
Carly
I was, like, eating that shit up.
- [54:00]
Hannah
I knew you were gonna love this book.
- [54:02]
Carly
I will say the underwater one, which was so cool and so unique, but every time they talk, I just picture all these bubbles coming out of their mouth. Like scuba divers. And not being able to tell what people are saying. I'm like, I don't understand how they know what people are saying.
- [54:17]
Kinsey
Well, luckily, she can communicate with Thatcher through their bod.
- [54:20]
Carly
That's true.
- [54:22]
Hannah
That's one of those moments that came in such in handy.
- [54:24]
Kinsey
Yeah, I'm a scuba diver. I loved the second trial as well. I thought that was super cool. And how their fear were the monsters. And then when she killed her fear, she killed the monster. She killed the monster, which then killed her fear. I thought that was really cool. But back to the third one, which was the best one. After she found out that nobody could see her illusions, but they could hear her, I immediately had to go back through and reread that whole chapter just to see what she did leak and let out. And then I was like, girl, secondhand embarrassment.
- [55:02]
Hannah
I got intense secondhand embarrassment when I. Cause I had suspected it. And even the things that he was saying, I was like, this feels like a little bit more forward for him. I don't trust this.
- [55:13]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [55:14]
Hannah
And then after, before, you know, that they couldn't see, but still, I literally went back and was like, what could they hear?
- [55:19]
Carly
Yeah.
- [55:20]
Hannah
What were they hearing? And I reread, and I was like, oh. I could feel it in my chest. Like, this is. This is embarrassing.
- [55:26]
Kinsey
Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing.
- [55:27]
Hannah
I desperately want Xull's POV from that chapter. Like, I want to know what that experience was like. Cause we don't get a lot of insight into that. He just wanted to keep away from her right after that. But I really want to know what it was like in the room or wherever he was around the other people. Specifically Navora, getting to witness that. And then people's reactions and his internal thoughts. I would kill for that POV chapter. And I have to say, as a trial, for the experience of the trial, that was also my favorite one. But as a concept, I really really, really enjoyed the Fate Tapestry. And I loved how loaded that is. And I don't even think we know how loaded that trial is as far as foreshadowing for future books and maybe not even in this series. Right. I loved the concept, specifically, of the Tapestry, and I really hated. I was like, wait, this is my favorite one. When it got cut off in the middle, we were so close to so much context about where the series could even go. And of course, they couldn't give us that, but I was on the edge of my seat waiting for it, and then it felt, like, ripped up from under me. I was sad. I agree.
- [56:42]
Carly
I think the concept of that one was the most interesting and most unique creative concept. I was like, I was here for it.
- [56:52]
Kinsey
Oh, yeah.
- [56:52]
Carly
And then I got yanked out. And I was like, no. And not.
- [56:56]
Hannah
Not just yanked out. Right. Like, we had. We actually. I mean, we did get yanked out, but we saw this. What seems to be some, like, somewhat of a prophecy, but also whoever she sees can. It's clear that they actually see her in real time, so wherever their timelines cross, which the concept of timelines.
- [57:14]
Carly
Yeah.
- [57:15]
Hannah
And I was like, oh, my God, this. This begs so many questions. And then all of a sudden, it's just. The whole fucking thing crumbled, and you don't even get to finish the trial. Like, people. Other candidates died, which seemed to.
- [57:30]
Kinsey
They were left with four people.
- [57:33]
Hannah
No wonder the other Ascended were so pissed.
- [57:36]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [57:37]
Hannah
Like, their candidates just died and didn't. It wasn't anything to do with them.
- [57:41]
Kinsey
Yeah. I was just like, who is that? That's not someone that we know yet. And like, when I saw, like, their fates diverging, I was like, yeah. But then like, oh, God, I just wish we got to be in that tapestry a little bit longer.
- [57:57]
Hannah
Okay, pause, though. Cause I agree. I wish we had gotten to stay longer. But the thing that I'm still caught up, like, it still keeps me up thinking about is how, as the God of Fate, which I know, we know that he was corrupt. Right. I get that that's an aspect to it, but the Gods can see this tapestry, and you see this other fate being twined, which we don't know exactly who that is. It's not said. And this split off and stuff. Like, and then specifically, she leads into a room that is, like, off limits. How is that not suspicious to the God of Fate and anyone else? Like, what does that say? That, like, her thread literally led into this room that is supposed to be forbidden. Like, the Gods can see that whether or not they can enter the room. Like, what does that say as far. Like, do you understand what I mean?
- [58:54]
Carly
Yeah.
- [58:55]
Kinsey
I mean, like, I knew that the God was corrupt already just from not showing up. And, like, they had teased a lot that Moros was out there with people, like, forgetting who they were and things like that. So I was already like, yeah, homeboy, not right. So I wasn't like, shocked to find out that he was corrupt. But it's, like, odd that nobody else cared.
- [59:18]
Hannah
Questioned her being in that room.
- [59:20]
Kinsey
Cause technically, that should have killed her or kicked her out of the challenge.
- [59:26]
Hannah
Yeah, I think. Cause the whole concept of the trial was that you have to get your thread untangled. And I think that. Do they have to find the end or not? I can't remember.
- [59:36]
Kinsey
But, like, yeah, I think they did. Cause Marx was like, I was just inches away.
- [59:41]
Hannah
Yeah. I think they had to find the end. And if they knew hers went into a room she can't go into. Like, also one. Why are you surprised that she tried to go into it? I mean, they couldn't have imagined that what happened actually would happen. But for me, like, there's still so many questions there, and I imagine they're intentional because, like, I did communicate these questions. Right. Like, it wasn't a plot hole.
- [60:00]
Carly
Right.
- [60:00]
Hannah
So what does that tell us? And I'm just fascinated by it. And it's, like, making my brain hurt. The more that I think about it, I'm like, somebody should have known that she couldn't complete this. Like, what is there? And what does that say for the overarching story? I don't know, but maybe I better think of that. Yes.
- [60:17]
Carly
They're gonna have some splaining to do in the next book. That's all I have to say.
- [60:21]
Hannah
I know that's right.
- [60:22]
Kinsey
Amen.
- [60:23]
Hannah
Okay, we're gonna talk about this one last part, and then we're gonna nail out some of the concepts of the end. And then we're gonna go to our spoiler section. So first, really quick reactions to this betrayal plot that Xul is kind of sort of not a part of. To kill Thatcher. And then of. Of course, that, like, flips the entire plan on its head with. With Tha's and this agreement. Thoughts on that?
- [60:47]
Carly
As a dedicated sibling, I was big mad for tha. I was like. I was furious. And then he was like, well, you've kept things from me. You kept things from me. I'm like, those are not the same things. Being like, I have this plan to do this thing, and I'm gonna sacrifice myself to, like, get to meet these ends is one thing. Fucking the girl whose brother you're actively trying to help murder, not the same thing. Don't even get me started on how that is not the same thing. I was so. I was like, don't you dare try to say this. And he was like, oh. And he was, like, so indignant. I was like, you need to take a step back.
- [61:21]
Hannah
Yeah, you need to take a step back.
- [61:24]
Kinsey
She was like, well, clearly it would have been easier to fuck me before you killed my brother.
- [61:28]
Hannah
It's like, I feel like her personality really shined in this dynamic right through here. I have to add. This is where I had to pause for, like, a week and a half. So they gave me the first part. Yes. This was a cliffhanger for me, and bless them. So it ended with you finding out about the chapter, ends with you finding out about this plot. And of course, there's context that we get in the next chapter that makes it not so bad. But I had to. I messaged them and was like, I just finished. Are you kidding? That's where you left me off. Like, they were still writing the rest. And we'll give you one more chapter is what they said. So they gave me the next chapter, and it cushioned me. But I did have to wait, like, a week or so before I could read the next part of the whole rest of the book. And that was brutal. And it definitely made it more intense for me.
- [62:15]
Kinsey
I mean, I got why they did it. I knew that they were on the same side the entire time. The clues were there. We knew that they were really working towards the same end goal. But I was like, yo, if y' all just, like, communicated a little bit better, you could have known earlier on.
- [62:31]
Hannah
And then to be fair on that aspect, though, he doesn't know that she wants to kill him. Yeah, he didn't know. And she doesn't know that he would ever be up for that. So to me, their mindsets make a lot of sense of why they didn't communicate. But it was hard to see, knowing how she. It was already. They were already aligned.
- [62:51]
Kinsey
He was shitting on the gods. He took her to, like, the primordial battleground. Like, so, like, it was already aligned.
- [62:56]
Hannah
There were things that he laid out.
- [62:58]
Kinsey
Yeah, but. Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't entirely mad at him just. Cause I understood why. But also, I was like, guys, Thatcher is fucking fine. He's gonna be fine the whole goddamn book.
- [63:13]
Hannah
Well, okay, but we know that. But he also. They found out he actually has the power of this primordial. Right. So he says, we thought that he was fine. The reason that it got to the point it was is because we didn't take him out earlier. So, like, that logic. As much as I like Thatcher is near and dear to my heart, that makes sense to me. It would make less sense to me if they weren't concerned about him and weren't doing this behind the scenes. And I'm shocked that she didn't put that together way sooner when he just killed a God, that they needed to be more careful. Which goes back to exactly what you were saying about how Thatcher was kind of like a little bit oblivious to his steps because, hey, you're a God killer surrounded by gods who have control of your life right now. Why would they not take you leaving.
- [63:58]
Kinsey
His realm that he's supposed to be in for training to repeatedly go somewhere that he's not supposed to be? Like, I. I got it. But also, like, it was Zul's father. It wasn't like Zul himself. In fact, Zul had gone to his father and was like, can you reconsider? Like, don't do this.
- [64:15]
Hannah
He tried to. He tried to advocate. Yeah.
- [64:16]
Kinsey
So, like, I couldn't stay mad at Zul.
- [64:19]
Hannah
That's why I was actually a little bit on his side through this. And, like, I got her first reactions, but I think when she was, like, after they figured it out, like, she held onto that a little bit longer than, like, I related to. And I was like, girl, like, you guys don't have time for this.
- [64:35]
Carly
I don't know. If I was this, he would not have lived long enough for me to have found out that he had. Actually.
- [64:41]
Hannah
Carly, I love your dedication to her.
- [64:44]
Carly
You know, it's anything like sibling dynamic.
- [64:47]
Kinsey
I'm like, no, I don't have sibling relationships like that.
- [64:50]
Hannah
Yeah, me neither.
- [64:50]
Carly
There's a couple things you can't do, and one of them is fuck with my siblings. And so, like, as her, I'm like, yeah, he'd be dead. He would have been dead where he stood dead.
- [65:00]
Hannah
Love that. Okay, all right, all right. Let's get to talking about the end, minus spoilers for Riftborne Dust Brown. So, okay, we have a whole bunch of stuff happen. First, we're gonna talk about Moros. And for context, guys, Moros is like, an actual Greek God. Yeah, Right. So I should have put this together much earlier than I did. I did not pick up on those clues. But in retrospect, it is very much so a part of Greek mythology. That gods can do this, where they can take over. I have not read books like that, but I know you guys have. And so I didn't know to look out for that. And I loved that twist. And I love that it wasn't the only twist. Like, I love that the twist kept twisting. But I do want to pause right there and ask you, what did you think when that reveal of him taking over, specifically Olynther, but also that he had been fucking with. We even know, you know, Svor his memories. Like, what do we think about that?
- [65:58]
Carly
I wasn't surprised. I think I'd even texted you, Hannah, like, halfway through the book, where I was like, olinthar is either a primordial or the primordial.
- [66:08]
Hannah
You did. And I just could not respond to you. Yeah.
- [66:12]
Carly
I was like, there's no way. And then Kinsey and I, I think both were like, this memory stuff is.
- [66:20]
Kinsey
It was a little too on the nose, especially with, like, Thatcher's point of view. And then he's like, who are you again? Like, Shavor. I was like, yeah, because, like, everyone just kind of, like, brushed over the fact that another God came to the realm to try to assassinate Thayus. And I'm like, somebody's pulling the strings. It's not just Olinthar.
- [66:40]
Hannah
I think that they added more details of the memory thing because I didn't. I won't want to, like, take responsibility for that.
- [66:47]
Kinsey
It was enough.
- [66:48]
Hannah
But it was. Yeah. Like, there wasn't. I don't think there that much in the beta to where I got the Shavuur part, which, again, was added later.
- [66:55]
Carly
Right.
- [66:55]
Hannah
Like, the Thatcher chapters were. But, yeah, no, in retrospect, now I'm like, wow, this makes complete sense. And also from what we know about other books, it makes complete sense that something like this is going on. Right.
- [67:09]
Kinsey
Yeah. At first I was like, moros is reincarnated, and it's someone else's ability. Or they never went away.
- [67:17]
Hannah
Something with memories is which. You know, that's why I should, like, triple read context about gods and world building, because sometimes I can get confused. And it was right there the whole time. But, you know, I like to be surprised. Okay, so that brings us to the Void, which will focus on the fact that that separated Thatcher and tha's rip, and then Moros went with thoughts on that. Thoughts on, like, this whole buildup scene where the rip opens.
- [67:47]
Kinsey
Yeah. Well, I'm just gonna say they're kind of fucked, because the only people that can open that void are Primordials, and they're gone. Well, Moros and Thatcher are going to have to work through their shit if they want to get through, but I don't think that's going to happen.
- [68:05]
Carly
Well, technically, tha's is part primordial. That is true, like a little bit.
- [68:12]
Kinsey
But I think they said they needed two. Didn't they say they needed like, two primary powers to, like, open the void or something?
- [68:19]
Hannah
Oh, I might have missed that part, but I don't remember that.
- [68:21]
Kinsey
Maybe that was a misinterpretation.
- [68:22]
Hannah
Because what you're talking about, Carly, is him saying that his primordial seed slipped through, which was really gave me the ick. Like, I didn't even want to.
- [68:33]
Carly
I don't like it.
- [68:34]
Hannah
That was a clue. Yeah, you could be onto something there.
- [68:37]
Carly
There was a lot of fucking around going on. I'm just saying there could be other primordial kids out there that they don't know about.
- [68:42]
Hannah
Oh, but he did say he killed all of them. But something stood out as different for Fay. Isn't Thatcher to him.
- [68:47]
Carly
I'm saying somebody could have slipped through.
- [68:49]
Hannah
I agree, I agree. But if you only need two, you got three. Like, we don't need anyone else and we could have someone else. Yeah, no, that was really intense.
- [68:59]
Kinsey
No, it was sad. He was like, let go. And I was like, no, my guy. Like, please don't.
- [69:04]
Hannah
Like, what the. Like, it was so heartbreaking too, to like. Because at some point I'm sure all of us knew what was coming.
- [69:13]
Carly
Yeah.
- [69:14]
Hannah
By this point. So you're experiencing this and you're like, this is really fucking sad.
- [69:20]
Carly
Yeah, it was heartbreaking.
- [69:23]
Hannah
So in the middle of this going on, we also find out Zul has completed the Savannah Wrath and he can feel her pain. And so he gets there. I thought that was fucking incredible. I love, love, loved how they twist. Like, how it happened in his POV when he was talking to his dad and you got to, like, see him experience it and you're like, oh, shit, this is what happened. Because you. All we knew at that point was that he did Weir, like, shapes on her with his blood. Like, that should have been suspicious. And then they get there and we have this, like. We have this moment where Thayas has now killed Olynthar, which I had said I actually kind of hoped he didn't die. I thought that would be really interesting. And then the last thing he said was about how you'll always, like, I'll always be in everything that you are basically just way prettier wording. I was like, oh, never Mind fuck him. I already didn't like him, but I was like, I could see this being really interesting story if he stayed alive and then she killed him. Oh, my God, the reveal that she now has his power. So I want. And of course, Zool's dad getting all involved and kind of taking them over. I want your reactions to that and non theory thoughts because we are going to have a theories episode.
- [70:33]
Carly
The fact that he didn't find a way to get out of the marriage thing, like, I don't know, I was.
- [70:39]
Hannah
Not even jumping there. I fucking hate that.
- [70:43]
Carly
Like, the whole thing with his dad, though, like, pushing that on him and like, all this, I was frustrated with Zuul. I was like, you are letting this game play. You. You are not playing it. Like, you are not playing at the level you need to be playing at to be like. I was like, I hate his dad. I'm frustrated with Zuul. I feel terrible for Thayus. Like, I need somebody to come in with a plan B real quick. And that was not happening.
- [71:09]
Kinsey
Yeah, but, like, she has all in Thar's power. If Zul's dad is the king, like, which they're pretending to be, to me, there's really no reason to, like, have that marriage pact because in theory, he should have the powers of the king. So, like, people shouldn't, like, really be able to stand up to him. And I know, like, oh, we don't have enough allies, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, come on, like, like, you know the truth. You don't need it. And I think they're gonna definitely get found out because how are you gonna hide all of that, that extra buildup of power? And, like, their excuse that they came up with was really dumb. Like, oh, well, like, his power is not gonna want to come into me. Like, it's gonna go into the person of his court or his realm. And I'm like, yeah. Like, I don't know. I just. His dad is, like, power hungry. And he claims to be one thing when all of his actions point to him actually, like, being the other. And I think that he's, like, not aware of what he's doing. Maybe. I don't know.
- [72:05]
Jeff Bridges
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [72:07]
Kinsey
Jeff Bridges. Why are you still living above our garage?
- [72:10]
Jeff Bridges
Well, I dig the mattress, and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like, you teach me. So.
- [72:16]
Carly
Dana.
- [72:17]
Kinsey
Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [72:29]
Jeff Bridges
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [72:36]
Kinsey
Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [72:38]
Jeff Bridges
T Mobile is the best place to.
- [72:40]
T-Mobile Announcer
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
- [72:42]
Jeff Bridges
Us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
- [72:47]
Kinsey
Dude, my work here is done.
- [72:49]
T-Mobile Announcer
The 24 month bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credits and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 A new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ookla Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 is@t mobile.com I kind.
- [73:05]
Hannah
Of have like a different view on it. I think it made a lot of sense for she's not equipped to handle being a leader. And I think the most valid thing that they did kind of like agree on is the fact that she's going to get targeted if they know. So any sort of time buffer that they can give her to heal is gonna help with that. Because in this state she's literally like in shock. And we also know from what they've gotten to know of her, she's intensely attached to her twin who their minds is never coming back. So it makes sense to me that they had to find a way Zuul and his dad. And that's why I don't think Zuhl like yes, it felt like he was backed into a corner and didn't have a strategy out of this. He didn't really have a say in that so much but I see why he could have been a little bit more strategic or it could have been like come off that way. I think I can rationalize it by being like she just turned ascended. They knew she was already super powerful. Right. So for at least a small amount of time it will just seem like they haven't ever felt her ascended power.
- [74:07]
Kinsey
That's true.
- [74:07]
Hannah
So it'll be masked for at least a small amount of time. But I do agree with you that it's going to be found out soon. I think that sets up for a really interesting dynamic going into book two of this series. And also it makes sense to me as much as I did not love this part because you guys know how I feel about my FMC and my mmc. Not too much conflict. Sometimes the right amount of conflict can feel Too much to me. And my first read of this, the end, I was like, I'm already traumatized from everything else. I want a light at the end of the tunnel with the romance. But after I finished this reread, I was like, actually, it makes so much sense because if they would have ended up together and gotten out of this, I just don't think we would have gotten the emotional payoff that I do want from their relationship when she is in such grief. I think I actually like the delaying of whatever is gonna look like them ending up together. Because at least from what I understand from Parker and Brie, they're giving us a happily ever after at some point.
- [75:07]
Kinsey
Yeah, they should.
- [75:08]
Hannah
Yeah, I'm pretty confident in that. So as much as it's hard to sit with right now, and I don't y' all know how I feel about off page weddings and weddings to other people is now on the list. So I did not love that, I guess. But I get it.
- [75:23]
Carly
Yeah.
- [75:24]
Kinsey
It also does, like, protect Zuul as well, because if she is targeted and killed, then, like, he basically, like, loses his soul and is like a husk of, like, who he is. And so it's just kind of like he kind of, like, fucked up there.
- [75:39]
Hannah
The one thing I will tell you that seemed to really stand out to me as like a development between my beta read and my arc read is that Navora got way more backstory this time. Like, you kind of really hated. At least my experience with her the first time was like, you just really hated her. You didn't really know a lot of her motivations and why she was the way that she was. It was just like, sort of like jealousy. She was just like the stand in essentially for the one you're supposed to hate. And I think that they integrated really well some conversations that we got to overhear of her and her telling Zul, like, I'll be a good wife. Like, you can do what you want. I just need out of my situation and I need some power of my own. And so that actually, I think helped me with the whole. And they did make it clear somewhere. I think it's only. Is it a thousand years?
- [76:25]
Carly
A thousand years.
- [76:27]
Hannah
Which apparently in their time is not that far. But I feel like they're gonna get out of it. I don't know. Maybe that's just hopeless romantic me.
- [76:33]
Kinsey
I think it'll break early. But also, like, I just didn't care. Like, I'm like, I'm not sympathetic towards Navorah's situation at all. I'm like, oh, no, you have an overbearing mother. Yeah.
- [76:43]
Hannah
Welcome to the club.
- [76:44]
Kinsey
Yeah. But no, seriously, I was like, what, are there no other bachelors available?
- [76:49]
Hannah
Yeah. I'm not saying I'm sympathetic to her, but I also understood why she was the way that she was. And, you know, if you're her, you don't know that your situation is really not that bad.
- [77:01]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [77:01]
Hannah
Like, she thinks it is.
- [77:03]
Kinsey
Baby girl, things could be way worse. Your brother could have been sucked into a void.
- [77:07]
Hannah
Right. You know, there's. There's a lot. Lot to that. Any other thoughts on. Because I think I asked you guys, but we just jumped straight to the marriage part. But any final thoughts on the end? That's not spoilery, because we're going to go really quick through our favorite moments and quotes, and then we'll jump to spoilers.
- [77:24]
Carly
I think I'm just most interested to see how Zul's mom is going to react to what the dad did to them. Oh.
- [77:32]
Hannah
Fully agree with that.
- [77:34]
Carly
Because I'm like, she's not gonna be okay with this. And the dad seems so. Like, I'll give her whatever she wants. Like, it's hard for me to see.
- [77:41]
Kinsey
Her being okay with this because he's a major hypocrite. Like.
- [77:46]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [77:46]
Kinsey
In every stance, the hypocrisy.
- [77:49]
Carly
Listen, I need him to die.
- [77:52]
Kinsey
Yeah, he will.
- [77:53]
Hannah
Which is sad because I actually really liked their love story.
- [77:55]
Kinsey
He will. It's fine. He's not gonna make it.
- [77:57]
Carly
Well, maybe we can get a book on their background. We can convince Parker and Brie to write that for us. But for now, I don't need them.
- [78:04]
Kinsey
Writing all these, like, side quests. I need them to focus on RealMBlade and book two of this.
- [78:10]
Hannah
So.
- [78:12]
Kinsey
No.
- [78:14]
Carly
And Marx's novella.
- [78:16]
Kinsey
Yeah. After they write the second book to this.
- [78:22]
Carly
Oh, man.
- [78:23]
Hannah
All right, we're gonna jump to our favorite moments, and we've talked about some of these, so we'll try and make this quick. And our favorite quotes, because we are. We still want to get to be able to talk about a lot of the spoilers. So starting with favorite moments. Carly, would you like to go first?
- [78:39]
Carly
It's really. When Thatcher Blew up the.
- [78:41]
Hannah
God, it was so good. Fair. Fair.
- [78:45]
Carly
I really loved that part so much. I was here for it. I was here for it when he blew up the mer Siren things. I don't remember what they're called.
- [78:55]
Kinsey
They were sirens.
- [78:56]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [78:56]
Carly
Yeah. I was really here for that. I also just want to say, I think, like, at the end, her grief Was written so well. I loved it. You really felt it? Was it sad? Was it heartbreaking? Was it hard to read? Yes. Was it really, really, really well written? Yes.
- [79:15]
Hannah
And her going back to Saltcrest and being, like, looking into people. The window of her life, as she puts it. Oh, my God. And then she doesn't have her whole family. She had there is. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's the whole.
- [79:29]
Carly
It is. I think as far as grief goes, that's some of the best I've ever seen written. It was so well done. She is so, like, detached from her. Her body in a way. Like when you don't feel everything you're feeling. Cause you can't.
- [79:45]
Hannah
I think they did a really good job of showing. Not telling that part too.
- [79:49]
Carly
No, exactly. Like, it's so. It's so, so, so well done. And I just really appreciated how well written it was. It was so good. Agreed.
- [79:56]
Hannah
Kinsey, your favorite moments.
- [79:57]
Kinsey
Yes. So I also really love the final scene with Zuul and Thayess with her grief. I thought it was really, really well done. But I already have kind of touched on this. The third trial. I was a huge fan of that. I also really loved the battle with Moros. I thought when she was fighting him and then, like, killed Olinthar and then Thatcher going through the void. I thought that was really, really well done.
- [80:20]
Hannah
How they teamed up to Thatcher. She and Thatcher.
- [80:23]
Kinsey
I loved that scene. And then finally, Thatcher's final point of view, which we'll talk about in a bit.
- [80:29]
Hannah
Yeah, yeah, I'll go through mine really quick. Everything Thatcher I absolutely adored. I think there's so many Easter eggs that are involved with him that I can't wait to get into in our Theories episode. But yeah, that last chapter just. It feels like an inevitable. Like, you just, you know what's coming, but you still don't expect how it's gonna hit you. And that was really intense. There's a moment that I cannot believe neither of you said. That was a Touch her and Die moment between Zuul and I have a.
- [81:00]
Kinsey
Touch her and Die quote in my favorite quote.
- [81:02]
Carly
Oh, okay.
- [81:03]
Hannah
Okay. That makes way more sense. I swear that's not Rand. But specifically, I want to point out that Thais is thinking, as she's going unconscious, that she's looking up into his eyes and sees something that might have been tears. And that is one of my favorite micro tropes. I loved that I touched on this a little bit earlier, but I want to expand on it. Chapters 50 and 51. I know that I told you Guys, while I was beta reading that, I had come across one of the best chapters I had ever read. It was a different chapter number then, but 51. Not only do we have this dynamic where we get to see Zul humanized with going to see his family and finding out that, like, this is just ancestors of family members that he has been visiting for a very long time and their dynamic, like, I really love to see that side of him. I think it enhanced his character a lot. Also, the boat scene has to be my favorite of the whole book. There is a meme that someone in Parker and Brie's discord, which we'll link down in the show notes posted of the Little Mermaid kiss the girl scene. And it's. That's. I mean, it's Tha's and Zul, my.
- [82:01]
Kinsey
Mind immediately went to the Little Mermaid.
- [82:03]
Hannah
I couldn't read it this. This time without that. And so you get that scene into this very romantic and intimate moment that then he takes her through a portal to his bedroom. And what I loved about this scene so much is not necessarily how the Spice was written. It was written beautifully. And also, I'm not a prince of death girl, but the wielding of the dead. I didn't know I would be into it. I kind of was like, I don't know how I feel about this, but overarchingly, I love that she was into it. But what was really powerful to me in conversations that I've had with Parker and Brie, that what they really wanted to play with in that scene that I think they did so, so well is exploring this power dynamic where thayess had to maintain such control for all of her life. Right? With her power. And then Xul has never felt in control of his life. And they said that they wanted to see how those power dynamics could play out and almost flip in the bedroom. And I thought that that was extremely well written. And I thought it was so vulnerable with both of them that I'm getting chills talking about it now to where you got like, that was just incredible character work and writing. In my opinion. It still stands as one of the best chapters I've ever read. Like, I loved it.
- [83:21]
Kinsey
I also liked their power dynamic. But I have to speak my piece. The phantom hands may have. They gave me the ick. I'm so sorry. It was like being doused with a bucket of ice water.
- [83:36]
Hannah
It's not for everybody. I get that.
- [83:38]
Kinsey
Well, I'm just like, is this necrophilia? Like, because, like, his powers have always been like, raising the dead. And so I'm just, like, imagining, like.
- [83:44]
Hannah
Dead people do it almost with shadows, though. Like, it's almost like a.
- [83:49]
Kinsey
It, like, was never, like, described that way. It was always, like. Like, hands.
- [83:53]
Hannah
Maybe that's how I did it in my head. Maybe I am like, I know that's.
- [83:57]
Kinsey
How you did it in your head, and I'm happy for you. And I was reading, and I was like, hannah definitely liked this, but for me, I was just imagining corpses, like, groping her.
- [84:05]
Carly
And I was like, yeah, I didn't.
- [84:06]
Hannah
I didn't not picture. I had to stop myself for picturing it like that. Like, in my head, it was, like, wisps of, like, shadow hands. But maybe that's not how it was described.
- [84:14]
Kinsey
I don't remember phantom and shadow hands before or, like, it's like a. Like a wind or something. Like.
- [84:20]
Hannah
But I think now I need to go back and see. I did. Maybe my brain blocked that because that would have been traumatic to picture for me. Yeah.
- [84:28]
Kinsey
Cause I'm like, it's one thing if it was his hands and it was, like, shadows or something. And maybe I read it totally wrong, but I just. Every other time he used his power, it was literally raising corpses. And so I was just like, oh, yeah.
- [84:42]
Hannah
He was able to do it two different type of ways. I noticed throughout. And one was like, bodies, and one was, like, sort of like darkness wisps.
- [84:50]
Kinsey
Okay, well, I hope it was.
- [84:52]
Hannah
That is my understanding. But also, I hope it was that.
- [84:56]
Carly
Fair. Fair.
- [84:57]
Hannah
Okay, so we're gonna talk about quotes. Carly has the least amount, so we'll always let her go first. Kinsey, you actually have two of my most favorites. I'm gonna let you go next, and then I'll give mine. So, Carly, can you start us off?
- [85:08]
Carly
It's a Marks quote to no one's surprise.
- [85:10]
Hannah
No one's surprise.
- [85:11]
Carly
Don't look so shocked. I'm allowed to have feelings, you know, occasionally when no one's licking.
- [85:16]
Hannah
I read this outline last night, and I looked at your single quote, and I was like, that is such a Carly quote if I've ever seen one.
- [85:23]
Kinsey
I texted her. I was like, are you gonna add another one? She's like, nope, nope.
- [85:27]
Hannah
No, I didn't even. I didn't even cross my mind that she'd need anything else.
- [85:31]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [85:31]
Carly
Yeah.
- [85:32]
Kinsey
So I have 1, 2, 3, 5. But they're all short. So Thayas said I was Thayas Morveren, wielder of stars, and I had come here to learn how to kill a God.
- [85:43]
Hannah
She's so badass.
- [85:44]
Kinsey
It was very, like, throne of glass coded. So I was like, fuck, yeah.
- [85:48]
Carly
Yeah.
- [85:48]
Kinsey
And then tha's to Zul, as she's, like, bowing down to him. Oh, insufferable lord of the afterlife. How truly special it feels to bruise my knees for you. I just thought it was funny.
- [86:00]
Hannah
I loved that part.
- [86:02]
Kinsey
Thatcher, when he said I really hate falling, I was dying. I was laughing so hard. You guys will know why in a bit, but I thought it was hilarious. Well, actually, you already know why. Cause he went through the void. So I was dying, though. I was like.
- [86:20]
Hannah
I think I cried at that. Actually. I had a very like. Well, I had the opposite experience.
- [86:25]
Kinsey
This was before the void, though. This was like. Maybe it was like the fourth chapter or the fourth trial. He kept making comments like that, and I was like, hehehe. Foreshadowing.
- [86:35]
Hannah
Oh, my gosh. I thought it was funny.
- [86:37]
Kinsey
I thought it was so funny. Anyway, Zul, these next two.
- [86:41]
Hannah
Oh, my God. These next two.
- [86:42]
Kinsey
He said, I'll see you before the ceremony. I'll be the one looking like I'm about to commit several acts of treason for a woman.
- [86:49]
Carly
I had that one highlighted. It's good.
- [86:52]
Kinsey
It was so good. And then this is the touch her and die kind of. I'll paint this temple with divine blood before I let them touch her.
- [87:01]
Hannah
I know. That's right.
- [87:03]
Carly
Yeah.
- [87:04]
Hannah
Oh, my God, I freaking love those quotes. Okay, so I have a couple. This one, tha since Zul, they're getting steamy. And Thea says, I like this dress. And Zul says, I'll buy you 100 more, but right now I need it all off. Oh, my God. I freaking like. That was such, like, a power move for me. I just loved it. Zools, I've known pleasures both divine and profane, but never, never have I wanted anyone the way I want you.
- [87:32]
Kinsey
You know that's right.
- [87:34]
Hannah
Oh, my God. I love devotion. I love it. Okay, this is the end. And this is like an excerpt, but it's my favorite writing of the book, which is, like, actually insane to say.
- [87:45]
Kinsey
I saw that you added it, and I was like, okay, good.
- [87:48]
Hannah
Yeah, it's covered. Someone's got this covered. Yeah.
- [87:50]
Carly
Yeah.
- [87:50]
Hannah
That's how I thought about some of your quotes. I was like, yes. I'm so glad that these are getting the attention. Okay, so this is at the end. It's their final chapter together. And Zuul says, I don't need anything from you. I just need you to exist, to be here, to let me help carry this until you can carry it yourself again. And Thea says, and if that's never, I'm not going to get choked up. I'm not going to do it. Zul says, then I'll carry it forever. That's what loving someone means. And then it reads, love. What a cursed, vicious thing. Oh, my God, it's so good. My heart is broken. It's shattered into a million pieces. And this is just one of them. Cause the end is just so many shards of glass that I'm just shoving at my fucking fingernails, but I enjoy every moment of it.
- [88:36]
Kinsey
And then also, this wasn't part of, like, the actual, like, quotation, what was said out loud, but he said it like a simple fact, like the sun rising.
- [88:45]
Hannah
And he.
- [88:46]
Kinsey
He almost let it slip that he had done that oath because she, prior to this, had said, like, I don't feel anything right now. But he's like, I know that you're feeling it. And it was because he was feeling her pain. I was like, oh, my God. So good.
- [89:02]
Hannah
My God.
- [89:03]
Kinsey
Okay, let's get to that spoiler warning. I'm ready to go.
- [89:05]
Hannah
Okay. All right.
- [89:06]
Carly
Yes.
- [89:07]
Hannah
Here we go. So this is now your warning. We are going into Riftborne and Duskbound spoiler territory. If you haven't read those books, I don't know how you've made it this far and not already decided that you're going to go read them, but you should. You should do that. And you should come back to listen to the end of this and then also listen to our Theories episode if you want to stay in this world a little bit longer, because we do not want to leave it anytime soon.
- [89:31]
Carly
All right.
- [89:33]
Hannah
This is the biggest secret that I've ever had to keep. And I would say I did really well in all of our conversations. I am so protective of others reading experiences. I consider the smallest thing spoilers. And this was so important to me that you guys got to just genuinely experience. And so I have to ask you, what was it like to experience finding out for sure. We'll talk about when you did in a moment. But when you found out that for sure that Thatcher was aether, what?
- [90:08]
Carly
I found out for sure, like, when I read the very end.
- [90:11]
Hannah
Yes. I want the end first.
- [90:13]
Kinsey
Okay.
- [90:14]
Carly
My reaction was, I fucking knew it. I said that out loud.
- [90:19]
Kinsey
It was satisfaction. Like, I knew for majority of the book that he was aether. And, like, half my notes are like, ha, ha, aether. Like, aether did this, aether did that, like, blah, blah, blah. And so, like, I was just like, like, preparing. That's why I was never concerned that he was gonna die. I was like, he's the God. Like, I. Even at in Duskbound, I was like, there's no way that Aether is not a fallen God of some sort. So I knew that he would have ascended and then he would, like, fall through the world. So I was just, like. I was vibing. I was chilling. I was, like, ready to go. Was not concerned for his life at any point. And when it finally happened, I was like, finally. It was just satisfying. Yeah.
- [91:03]
Hannah
Okay, we'll come back and I'll have a question for you in a moment, Carly.
- [91:05]
Carly
I had some fear. I was, like, wrong and that he would die. Cause I was like, she doesn't get to keep him. There's no way she gets to keep him. So either he's dead at the end of this book, or he's Aether and he's gone. And I was like, it's one of the two. And I was very convinced he was Aether, but there was Also that, like, 1% of me that's like, if I'm wrong and he dies at the end of this book, I'm very devastated because I'm convinced he's Aether.
- [91:28]
Kinsey
And he was so convinced.
- [91:29]
Carly
I was, like, so scared that I was wrong. I didn't want to be wrong.
- [91:33]
Hannah
No, I feel that. Okay, before I give any of my thoughts and reactions to this, I want to know at what point you started to suspect it and how you felt about that being a possibility.
- [91:44]
Carly
Kenti, do you want to go first, or do you want me to go first?
- [91:46]
Kinsey
I can go first.
- [91:47]
Hannah
Okay.
- [91:48]
Kinsey
When he blew up the God.
- [91:49]
Hannah
Yeah, yeah.
- [91:52]
Kinsey
That's Aether's powers. And I knew at that point that the gods all had gold eyes. So even though Thatcher didn't have gold eyes yet, I knew that Aether did. And all of his other physical characteristics matched up with Aether. So that was when I was like, I'm pretty sure that's Aether. And then we, like, found out that, like, oh, the primordials existed. And that's, like, what it used to be. And then we found out that the primordial that was fighting, like, his earlier or where he got the power was a Vivreos or Vivreos or something like that. But Moros, how he took memories. The moment that it said that he eats on memories, I was like, go fucking figure. That's why Aether forgot who he was. And so I just was like, fully like the moment he blew up a God. And then once we Found out that Moros eats memories. I was like, confirmed.
- [92:46]
Carly
Yeah, Yeah, I had a slightly different experience. It wasn't intentional.
- [92:53]
Hannah
Apparently.
- [92:54]
Carly
I did ask the question, but the second I read Thatcher's name. Cause my brain.
- [92:59]
Hannah
You're saying on like page one. Yeah, no way.
- [93:03]
Carly
So listen, when I read names, my brain is automatically like moving letters around to see what other names I can make out of those names. Like, I can't help. Just happens in my brain. And I was like, oh, look, you can almost make the name Aether out of Thatcher.
- [93:20]
Hannah
Yeah, that was not intentional. I did confirm with them.
- [93:22]
Carly
Yeah. Once I saw that he killed the God, I was like, he's fucking Aether. And I sent Hannah this serial killer level drawing at 2:00am, which was like 5:00am for you.
- [93:31]
Hannah
So you just wake up very awake, actually. Yeah, yeah, you just like wake up.
- [93:35]
Carly
To this drawing of me. Like, look, if you do this to.
- [93:37]
Hannah
The name and Hannah's like, I can't tell you how. So we have a rule between the three of us. Like, when someone's reading a book that we've read already, we. We want updates, but we don't engage with them because we don't want to, like, yeah, say yes or no or imply that something is or is not.
- [93:52]
Kinsey
I will gaslight you.
- [93:54]
Hannah
I do not do that. I just don't engage. I cannot express how fast I sent that text to them. And they were like, that was not intentional. And I was like, no way did.
- [94:04]
Kinsey
She do this if it was though.
- [94:06]
Hannah
That's so cool. I don't know. Maybe they should claim it. Yeah, maybe they should claim it with intentional. They weren't even gonna name him that at first. Oh, and they just liked how it went with Thais.
- [94:15]
Carly
Yeah, I liked how it went with Aether. I was like, thatcher Aether. And I kept doing that the whole time I was reading it. And then we got to the God killing scene and I was like, that kind of sounds familiar.
- [94:28]
Hannah
Yeah. And I was like, oh, fuck.
- [94:30]
Carly
That's like one of my favorite scenes ever in any book is that Dustbound scene. And that rescue scene is like God tier.
- [94:38]
Kinsey
I was like, how could anyone forget what he did in Duskbound? You know?
- [94:42]
Carly
But then when we got to the third trial and he's like off with this silvery haired girl, I was like, kind of sounds like what Fia looks like. It's almost like he's manifesting his dream.
- [94:55]
Hannah
Girl, which I love, love to see that. And then I sat here and I.
- [95:01]
Carly
Text and I was like, oh, shoot, what if this changed in? Because you had read the beta, and then you were reading it, and I was like, oh, what does this change? And I tried to take it back, and you had already seen it. I was like, please tell me it didn't change. And you're like, no, no, no. It's the same. It's okay. But I was so scared I had spoiled something for you. No.
- [95:15]
Hannah
And I love you for that. I did see it really fast, and it wasn't something that changed, which. Okay, so we're gonna back up a second because I had a very different experience with this Given again, beta read. But I don't think our listeners all have the context of this because we actually haven't talked formally on the podcast about Riftborn and Dustbound to this extent. We did that in book club. So I am an aether girly. That is my number one book boyfriend. I am so deeply in love with that character. So that's important. That's really important context for this. I haven't shown you guys yet, but I actually have an aether in his slutty little glasses. Art print in the library on my bookshelf. It's behind me.
- [95:58]
Kinsey
Wait, bring it closer to the camera. There was a little bit of a glare.
- [96:01]
Hannah
If you're watching, I actually have two copies.
- [96:03]
Kinsey
Oh.
- [96:05]
Hannah
I said, I'm not risking not having one. So if you're watching on Patreon, this is from Dustbound, and it's freaking beautiful, and I'm so proud of it. That's my baby. Okay. So knowing that now you can understand one, how it was such a big deal for me to have kept this in as long as I did and to not be able to talk to you guys about it, because traditionally, with any other book, we can do that fairly soon. This was intense. I had a different experience because I was one of the first people to read the book. They were, like, so excited for someone to know that this is what was going on, especially me, because they know how much I love Aether. So they were laughing. I was like a fish in a bowl to them with all of my I love Thatcher. Oh, my God, you're making me fall in love with him. Very early on.
- [96:50]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [96:51]
Hannah
And they'd commented at one point, oh, my God, you're gonna love chapter seven. But at that point, I'd made a lot, which has changed. It's not the same chapter, I don't think anymore, but that's what it was. The scene that you're talking about, and I had multiple comments that was like, no, he's gonna Manifest powers. So I read that chapter at, like, 4 or 5am I was not ready to put it down, but I was like, I have to get through where they're gonna say that I'm gonna love. And so I read that chapter, and I was so tired and I went to sleep. Okay. And I had lots of reactions. I loved that chapter. I loved what happened. And I felt very validated and focused on the fact that he did have powers, like I had thought and had been on. And so I wake up to a text amongst a conversation that was like, who is Thatcher? And I was like, oh, I'm early in this book that has a lot of fucking names and a lot of world building. Tha's brother. And they were like, oh, okay. Yeah. And we were talking about other things. And, like, I didn't think much of it, but I was just. Within five minutes, I was just thinking to myself, like, God, I really love that scene. And I went back over the scene in my head and I was in bed. And when I tell you, I fucking levitated. I sat up so fast and gasped because that's how I put it together. Because they thought that I was gonna immediately recognize that power. And I do think I would have had I not been up at 4 or 5. But I was also. So when I tell you guys, I was commenting every other fucking line that's not that traumatic. But I was so involved in this book that I just didn't think the reveal would be. And so I just. It just blew my mind. It blew my mind. And that was so early on. So, like, I did read the rest. I went back and read. And then I went back and laughed at my own comments about, literally page one, talking about how much I love Thatcher because I am consistent.
- [98:45]
Kinsey
Yeah, you are.
- [98:46]
Hannah
You can't tell me that is not my book boyfriend and I will find him in any realm. So, yeah, it was very, like, oh, my God moment. And then, so the rest of the book, I did go in knowing, like, confirmation. Not just suspecting, like, I knew from them. Like, of course I text them. And I was like, oh, my God, you didn't. And they were like, we just had to have somebody that knew. So I don't know if that meant that I was, like, one of, like, the first handful or, like, the.
- [99:13]
Kinsey
I don't.
- [99:14]
Hannah
Because I think. I think I had the. I don't know.
- [99:16]
Kinsey
I'd say you were one of the first. But are you gonna tell people what you wrote in chapter one? The comment that you wrote?
- [99:23]
Hannah
I think I kind of Said it like, oh, my God. Yeah. Okay, so I put two comments in here. Page one, literally, I already feel like I'm going to love him and their dynamic. Page fucking one. And I could prove it. And then still, chapter one, I wrote. I know it's far too early for this, but officially submitting a petition for Thatcher to get his own book. I love him.
- [99:43]
Kinsey
I read that last night in the outline. I was like, hannah, you fucking didn't.
- [99:49]
Hannah
I'm telling you guys. And so Katie and I were having lunch a couple weeks ago, and she just started. I keep saying a couple weeks. It was not long ago, but she just started it. And she said to me, I was asking, she just been early, and she said, I really love Thatcher. I really think I would enjoy a book for him. And I was like, I would fucking love a Thatcher book. And so she sent me her reaction the other day, and she was like, no wonder you said you would love a Thatcher book. And I was like, actually, I said that before I ever knew.
- [100:19]
Carly
Yeah.
- [100:21]
Kinsey
Yep.
- [100:21]
Carly
Yeah.
- [100:22]
Kinsey
Oh, but I'm so glad they worked it in. And I remember asking them, was it at our book club, because I know that they were, like, watching or it was one of our things that we had filmed, but maybe it was the interview that we did with them. But I was like, can we please get his backstory? And I was telling him, like, in.
- [100:40]
Hannah
The interview, I think you said that.
- [100:41]
Kinsey
It was the interview. And I was like, I'm convinced he's a fallen God. And they were like, yeah, maybe you're right. Like, we'll see. And so I was just like, yes.
- [100:51]
Hannah
Yeah. I think that this was the perfect way to weave this in. And, you know, this is why you can experience the book without having read Riftborn and Dustbound. And, you know, if people are coming back, listening after they've read those, after reading Ascended, I think that there's gonna be payoff for them in Dustbound that we didn't get. And there's payoff in Ascended that we get from having read Duskbound, because, like, in any universe, clearly I would have loved him. And I just think that's so well written to do that because he's very different. Right. It's actually so sad to think about how broody. And the thing that gets me the most about him, as I read through all of this, is I'm so invested in this character is the fact that he has expressed to Fia that he's worried that he was cast. The only conclusion he can come to from being cast out of Being a God, because he thinks he's a God, too. He's picked up on that. And she asks him. And the only conclusion that he can come to is that he was cast out for doing something wrong. And he has internalized this so much, it's part of multiple conversations for them. And it has created this just tragedy of a character that was such sunshine before and still has this moment that he's getting his light back.
- [102:06]
Carly
But, yeah, he's holding so much guilt. That isn't his.
- [102:10]
Hannah
It's not his. He didn't do anything wrong. In fact, he was actually, like, in the right. He was so good.
- [102:16]
Kinsey
I think it goes back to the internal conflict we got in Thatcher's point of view with him just possessing that type of a power. And so knowing how destructive it is and how it hurt him as Thatcher, it hurts him now as Aether, too, which is really sad.
- [102:34]
Hannah
And now our listeners understand how big of a deal it is that I got to influence in any way getting his POVs, because it's like, I think that that added so much to the experience with the character. And for one, that I just loved this deeply to know that I didn't write it, but I feel like I did him justice by advocating for that. And I just.
- [102:56]
Carly
Yeah.
- [102:57]
Kinsey
Now, aside from the Thatcher reveal or the Aether reveal, I just have to talk about what actually happened in that chapter just real quick. So we got confirmation. I already was like, oh, once we found out Moros eats the memories, I was like, oh, so the woman is his sister. It's not like a mother, it's not a lover. We knew his mother had died. They never really knew him. So I was like, oh, my God. When we got to see the progression of him forgetting who he was, I ate that up. And it was really sad. I loved it, though. But also knowing it's a prison. Moros is there with him, so they're fucked. And at the very end, having Thea speak to Harren and knowing that he's going to see what is happening with Aether Thatcher for, like, a very, very short period of time.
- [103:49]
Hannah
And his fate thread opens up to him for seven seconds.
- [103:52]
Kinsey
Seven seconds. And I'm. But she can still feel the bond. And I'm like, can Aether feel the bond? Cause, like, he doesn't even know to, like, look for it. And so I haven't reread Duskbound yet. I plan on doing that very soon. But I wonder if he, like, feels the thread because they still don't really get pov.
- [104:11]
Hannah
Like, that.
- [104:12]
Carly
Right.
- [104:12]
Hannah
So we don't really know what he's been experiencing.
- [104:14]
Kinsey
That's true. God.
- [104:16]
Hannah
My thought with that, first of all, is the fact that, like, it enhances his backstory also to know who the woman is that he's seen. Because in Duskbound, the only memory he holds onto is, like, a woman who's outstretched, looking toward him. That has all of Thay's characteristics. Right. And so if that's all he knows, that's all he knows. And Thayas, for at least 36 years, is what they say is what she has. All of those memories. All of them. And then she's gonna find him, what, memoryless? Like, that all. But that. That one little thing. But he doesn't even know who she is to him.
- [104:50]
Kinsey
And here's the other thing that's tragic. They're gonna be spending more time apart than they ever were together. Cause they're like, what, 26, 28.
- [104:59]
Hannah
Yeah. 10 years more so. And not heartbreaking.
- [105:02]
Kinsey
Yeah. So, like, at this point, he's lived an entirely different life without her, and he's lived that life for longer. And as badly as I want Thayer and Thatcher to reunite, I don't want Aether to leave Fia. And so I'm just like, oh, my God, what's gonna happen?
- [105:20]
Carly
I think just knowing that they're out there and that maybe they'll find a way to see each other occasionally would be enough for me.
- [105:28]
Kinsey
We'll probably get, like, an Avengers endgame. Like, portals opening up for, like, this giant battle or something.
- [105:34]
Hannah
Wait, that'd be so freaking cool.
- [105:36]
Carly
I'm very excited for Realm Blade. I'm very excited for whatever the next book is gonna be for Ascended. I want these books so bad. Yeah. I'm just. Yeah, I just can't wait. Because, yeah, I feel so much for Thayus, like, so invested. Yeah. Like, she knows her brother's maybe gonna be out there and that he still alive. But, like, she doesn't know how okay he is or how happy he is or, like, what's happening to him. Like, that's awful. I can't imagine just having to sit around for 36 years waiting for your opportunity and knowing that it's like, seven seconds.
- [106:13]
Hannah
Time will now pass way faster for them as gods than it had prior. So, like, 26 human years may feel equivalent or less than. But he's with Modern for how long, though? Because the queen pulls him out, right?
- [106:26]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [106:28]
Carly
He forgets that Moros is in there, so he doesn't even know.
- [106:30]
Kinsey
They just have that, like, lurking in Their backyard.
- [106:34]
Carly
Not great.
- [106:37]
Kinsey
It's crazy, though. I'm. I'm pretty stoked. I'm so grateful that we'll have arcs.
- [106:42]
Hannah
For all of the future. Thank you, Parker and Bri.
- [106:45]
Carly
We're gonna need those real fast.
- [106:47]
Kinsey
Yeah, no, and I. I'm a huge fan of, like, multiverses and, like, building up stories. That's one of my favorite things that authors do. And recently, when we were at Book Scouts and Crowns, Holly Black had said that it's not, like, a good. And I'm totally butchering and paraphrasing, but essentially what Holly Black, the author of the Cruel Prince, had said is, like, it's not a good story or it's not good world building. Unless, like, you can come up with, like, many branches of, like, a side story. Like, to you, it's like, oh, they're just like an npc, but, like, like, what's their job? Like, what's their life?
- [107:21]
Carly
Like?
- [107:21]
Kinsey
You want to think about those things with your character. And it was just kind of like a. Like an aha moment for me, like, as a reader and as someone who is interested in writing, I could list so many authors right now who just keep expanding and expanding on their worlds, and to me, that's just, like, one of the most exciting things. And I love crossovers and Easter eggs and things like that. So I'm super excited to see where this goes.
- [107:43]
Hannah
But, yeah, same. And I should mention that we've got books from two out of the three series that are involved here, so we still have a whole series. We don't know how is connected, who is connected, where it's connected. We do have lystrian. Yeah, there's four pantheons, but there's. Yeah, four pantheons, but there'S three series that we're getting for those. So I imagine based on the names, that they're pantheons, we're gonna get one of those.
- [108:07]
Carly
Yeah.
- [108:08]
Hannah
I mean, just think of how Riftborn was. The world was so small to her. She was literally a domain within one realm. And we stayed in that domain. Right. And that's why I really think it's important, hopefully, for readers to read Riftborn first. Because the world grows as you go through, because I could imagine ascended goes broad. Right. And then all of a sudden, you're in one domain. You stay there for the majority of it.
- [108:34]
Carly
Right.
- [108:35]
Hannah
So I'm really curious on the experience in that. But just the work that Parker and Brie have put into building this out, you can tell because of the Easter eggs. And that is. I mean, that's what we all bond over. Right. Is our fourth wing style going back and finding things. And I think that the way that they wove Thatcher's story in with this and it added a layer that alone the story would have been really powerful but it added such a layer of depth that you now can tie in these other storylines. Like you're saying that just like they branch off to each other. Which is why I love the Fate Tapestries trial. It's so fascinating to me.
- [109:11]
Kinsey
Yeah, I guess while we're on the topic of the trial again, I was like is that Fia, Is that her line? That was like with him and it was like a gray color. But I like was like her hair.
- [109:20]
Hannah
Is like white though. Yeah.
- [109:23]
Kinsey
So I don't know.
- [109:24]
Hannah
Do we have any final thoughts about this book?
- [109:27]
Carly
I just need book two, preferably.
- [109:31]
Kinsey
Hint hint. Parker and Bri.
- [109:33]
Hannah
Hahaha. Thank you. Yeah, I'm super stoked for it. I'm really excited to hear you guys theories. I mean I know that like Riftborn is not really going to have a lot of. I don't even think any overlap. So really the theories episode is gonna focus on Duskbound and Ascended, but I'm really stoked to hear about those because there's just so many directions that they could take all this in and I'm like, I'm just. This is a playground for us and I'm excited. I'm excited. Well that wraps up our initial reactions episode on the Ascended. Thank you all so much for listening. Join us for our next episode where we are discussing our theories for the Sundered universe which will cover Riftborne, Dustbound and Ascended. So make sure to have read all those. I guess at this point, if you're listening, you already have special shout out again to Parker and Bree. Thank you for writing this incredible story and thank you for believing in us.
- [110:30]
Carly
If you are looking for even more romantic content, we also have three completed seasons of Empyrean chapter by chapter, Deep dive coverage, a current Brimstone prep and recovery season, author interviews, including one with the Ascended authors, Brie Greenwich and Parker Lennox, and more.
- [110:43]
Kinsey
You can find more info about our previous and upcoming prep seasons, our episode and events, calendar, author interviews, our contact form and more on our website dearfantasyreader.com also linked down in the show notes.
- [110:55]
Carly
Join us over on Patreon where you can access all of our regular episodes ad free a day early and in full. Video plus extras like PDF annotations, shout outs, bonus resources and more. You'll find our Patreon link in the show notes, along with all the ways you can support the show, whether that's joining a tier, subscribing, leaving our video you, or just sharing us with your fellow Romantasy readers.
- [111:13]
Kinsey
We'd love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, tag us on Instagram, or come fangirl with us over your favorite fantasy books in our free Discord Chat. And don't forget to follow us on social media, where we release book guides, author updates, our current reads, clips from episodes, pod updates, and more.
- [111:28]
Hannah
Until next time, dearest fantasy readers, prepare for theories as we continue our journey through the sundered universe. Universe. I'm so glad you guys have finally read this book.
- [111:42]
Carly
I'm so glad I finally read this book. Oh, my gosh. I. Yeah, I just. It was so exciting to get to do this book and to get to work with Parker and Bri, because, I mean, we already loved Reformed, obviously, and doing the interview was one of the massive highlights of my summer because they're just so kind, so gracious, and so generous with their time. Like, getting to do this was just a dream come true.
- [112:08]
Kinsey
I mean, it was crazy because the whole time we were like, we're fangirling over you. And they were like, we're fangirling over you. And we're like, stop.
- [112:15]
Hannah
We went back and looked at the timeline, and the podcast started in July, and Parker reached out to me. I want to say it was August. August or early September, because I had a Riftborne. It wasn't technically an arc, had already released in September, and they had found me through the podcast, and so never did I see our journeys paralleling like this. But I'm just unbelievably proud of them and so grateful. And also, I forgot to mention, I'm wearing the ascended merch.
- [112:41]
Carly
Oh, yeah.
- [112:42]
Hannah
And it's beautiful. You can't see. We'll post it on socials.
- [112:45]
Kinsey
And for those who are not on socials, Hannah, do you want to tell them what happened with you specifically?
- [112:52]
Hannah
Oh, are you talking about how I became Parker and Brie's pa?
- [112:56]
Kinsey
Yes, I am.
- [112:59]
Carly
Yeah.
- [112:59]
Hannah
Like, I didn't want to make it all about me, guys, but we can. But, yeah, that's been a recent development, and it's a dream come true. And I have championed this series since I read Riftborn. I think one of the first conversations we had all ever had together. I told you guys I needed you to read Riftborne. Yeah. And that's saying a lot, because we had a lot of conversations when we first started because we jumped right into a podcast together. And to get to be on this journey with them into Dustbound's release, that's when I got you guys to read both books. I loved that you also loved them as much as I did. I think we've bonded a lot over this series. And then they announced realmplay's release date with us. And it's just like, I don't know how many ways I can just express how unbelievably proud I am of them and how meaningful it is for me to get to see their work appreciated like this and now to be, like, a part of that in any capacity. Like, I'm just over the moon and I am such fangirls of them. And they said it. They said it the other day about us, about how one of the best thing that's happened to them for their writing career is coming onto our podcast. Like, what does that even. What?
- [114:09]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [114:09]
Hannah
Like, I can't even, like, wrap my head around that. And so, you know, I think my beta read was an audition. I didn't know I was in for being their PA, and I think 800 comments earned me my position.
- [114:21]
Kinsey
I just love how, like, fate has, like, worked everything together. Like, it's pretty cool.
- [114:26]
Carly
I don't know. I just feel so lucky to like, have a tiny little part of, like, this story of these books, because I know we all love them and, like, the books and the authors, and it's just been such a great experience. I'm so excited for the next book, so I need them so soon.
- [114:46]
Hannah
Agreed. Parker, Bri, we adore you and thank you again.
- [114:49]
Kinsey
Thank you.
- [114:50]
Carly
Thank you.
- [114:51]
Hannah
And listeners, if you've really made it this far, we love you and thank you for coming on this journey with us.
- [114:56]
Kinsey
People are like, what do you mean? I usually turn the outro off. Yeah.
- [115:01]
Hannah
We're so excited to get to talk about books that we love like this with you guys. So thank you for listening. And we're just being super fucking sentimental right now.
- [115:09]
Carly
Yeah.
- [115:09]
Hannah
And it's well earned if you guys have been, you know, even if this is your first episode. Like. Like, thanks for joining us and having a blast and big, exciting things are happening and we hope that we're able to get incredible indie authors like this to you and non indie authors as well. Yeah, we love you guys.