Ep. 13 Onyx Storm Deep Dive: Ch. 41-44 | Easter Eggs, Theories & Key Moments

Summary

Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast – Episode 13 Summary: Onyx Storm Deep Dive (Chapters 41-44)

Release Date: May 22, 2025

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Overview

In Episode 13 of Dear Fantasy Reader, hosts Hannah, Kinsey, and Carly embark on an in-depth exploration of Rebecca Yarros' Onyx Storm, covering Chapters 41 through 44. This episode delves into pivotal plot developments, character dynamics, intricate lore, and sets the stage for upcoming events in the Empyrean series. The discussion is enriched with notable quotes, thoughtful analysis, and engaging theories that both longtime fans and new listeners will find invaluable.

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Chapter Summaries

Chapters 41-44:

• Irids' Judgment: The Quest Squad encounters the Irids, ancient beings bred for peace. Andarna reveals her life story, leading to the realization that the Irids are actually judging Violet, not themselves. They accuse Violet of possessing a dangerous signet, despite her lack of manifestation, and perceive Zaden as a potential threat deserving of death.

• Separation and Siege: Following the failed mission with the Irids, the squad returns to Baskaieth to find that Siniva, the capital of Promiel, has fallen to Dark Wielders. Queen Maria is dead, and the Quest Squad is separated and questioned before being released without punishment as King Tari discovers Arryk alive.

• Battle Briefing: The squad learns about the Venon’s infiltration of Siniva, facilitated by Theophany disguising Wyverns within storm clouds. Violet confides in her squadmates about Zaden's slow transformation into Venon, heightening the sense of impending conflict.

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Analysis and Discussion

Meeting the Irids (00:00 - 06:15):

Kinsey summarizes the intense encounter with the Irids, highlighting their revelation that the Irids perceive Violet as a threat due to her signet. The discussion focuses on the Irids' true intentions and their biased judgment against humans, questioning the morality and transparency of these ancient beings.

Key Discussion Points:

1. Dual Nature of Irids:

   • Hannah (06:15): "Do you think that the Irids have actually ever bonded a human and they were just evading this question?"
   • The hosts agree that the Irids have a history of bonding with humans despite their claim of neutrality, suggesting hidden motives.

2. Signet Interpretation:

   • Kinsey (08:43): "You were left behind as the Criterion, the measurement of their growth..."
   • Carly theorizes that the Irids may have inadvertently caused the corruption within the magic system, leading to the rise of Venon.

3. Magic System Corruption:

   • Carly (10:43): "I think at some point the magic system got corrupted and people could no longer use it without turning Venon."
   • The hosts explore the possibility that the dragons, specifically the Irids, played a significant role in corrupting the magic system, thereby causing widespread chaos.

4. Irids’ Reaction to Violet as the Criterion:

   • Kinsey (19:10): "Maybe they were like, how could you say that? You're not supposed to let them know."
   • The Irids' surprise upon learning Violet is the Criterion hints at deeper secrets and possibly other Irids existing independently.

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Favorite Characters, Moments, and Quotes

Favorite Characters:

1. Riddick:

   • Kinsey (65:12): "He was like, all right, I just processed this information in 0.5 seconds."
   • Praise for his clear-headedness and protective nature, providing stability for Violet.

2. RI (Jesenia):

   • Carly (66:09): "When she tells RI that Zaden is slowly turning Venon, her initial response is to just talk, to tell her everything."
   • Admiration for her straightforward and supportive demeanor.

Favorite Moments:

1. Andarna’s Storytime:

   • The revelation of the Irids' true purpose and the emotional weight it carries for Andarna.

2. Sign Language Communication:

   • Carly (69:04): "Using sign language to communicate right in front of the Irids."
   • Appreciation for the subtle and strategic use of non-verbal communication.

Favorite Quotes:

1. Riddick on Protecting Zaden:

   • Kinsey (69:55): "I also don't want you to think that just because you're scary, I'm scared of you."

2. Andarna’s Reflection on Peace:

   • Hannah (71:19): "You preach peace while only having known its privilege."

3. Zaden’s Realization:

   • Zaden (70:00): "I could tear our kingdom, our province, apart from within."

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Epigraph Analysis

Chapter 41:

• "What we know about dragonkind is nothing compared to what we don't." – Colonel Kaori's Field Guide to Dragonkind
  • Reflects the vast unknown surrounding dragonkind, emphasizing the depths of their lore.

Chapter 42:

• "While the enemy's advance throughout Krobla makes it impossible to station a full riot at Siniva..." – General Augustine Melgren to Queen Maria
  • Foreshadows the catastrophic fall of Siniva and the devastating Venon attack.

Chapter 43:

• "If possible, hunt the enemy during the day. Their markings are so easily hidden by the shadows of night..." – Captain Drake Cordella
  • Highlights the stealth and danger posed by the Venon, who can blend into shadows.

Chapter 44:

• "Your Majesty, unfortunately, I can find no law that supersedes the Unification Scrolls..." – Colonel Agatha Mayfair, Royal Archivist
  • Indicates political turmoil and power shifts within Navarre, setting up future conflicts.

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Easter Eggs and Foreshadowing

1. Feathertails vs. Irids:

   • Clarification that not all feathertails are Irids, adding depth to dragon classifications.

2. Leathan’s Connection to Andarna:

   • Hannah (79:34): "Violet thinks, 'the swirl pattern in his horns reminds me of Andarna's. Maybe they're from the same den.'"
   • Sets up future interactions and reveals familial ties within dragonkind.

3. Threshing vs. Harvest:

   • Inconsistent terminology between books raises questions about the nature of threshing/harvesting and potential Venon infiltration.

4. Symbolism of Agate:

   • Mention of agate as a sound shield hints at magical defenses and their aesthetic significance in the world-building.

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Theories

1. Irids as Accidental Catalysts for Corruption:

• Carly (10:43): "I think at some point the magic system got corrupted and people could no longer use it without turning Venon."
• Suggests that the Irids unintentionally disrupted the magic balance, leading to widespread Venon transformation.

2. Potential Resurrection Mechanism:

• Kinsey (42:16): "I think part of the cure is that Satan has to die."
• Posits that resurrection or soul restoration rituals could play a role in curing Venon, involving significant sacrifices.

3. Andarna as a Future Key Player:

• Carly (53:43): "Maybe Andarna is a sign of that [evolution]."
• Predicts that Andarna will unlock new magical abilities, such as detecting Venon or manipulating magic to combat dark wielders.

4. Riddick’s Role in Protecting Zaden:

• Hannah (57:38): "Riddick points out... everyone is going to come after Violet when they find out that Zaden's Venon."
• Theorizes that Riddick will actively protect Zaden, possibly leading to deeper alliances or conflicts.

5. The True Nature of the Weapon Failing Siniva:

• Kinsey (75:45): "The Venin could be altering the weapon to make their own."
• Suggests that the Venon may have manipulated the alloy daggers or other weaponry to further their own agendas.

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Conclusion

Episode 13 of Dear Fantasy Reader offers a comprehensive and nuanced analysis of Onyx Storm, Chapters 41-44, unraveling complex character motivations, deepening the lore of dragonkind and the magic system, and setting up intriguing predictions for the series' future. The hosts skillfully balance plot summary with critical analysis, making this episode a treasure trove for fans eager to delve deeper into the Empyrean series.

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Notable Quotes Referenced:

• Kinsey (06:15): "You were left behind as the Criterion, the measurement of their growth..."
• Hannah (71:19): "You preach peace while only having known its privilege."
• Carly (69:55): "I also don't want you to think that just because you're scary, I'm scared of you."
• Zaden (70:00): "I could tear our kingdom, our province, apart from within."

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Engage with Us:

Join Hannah, Kinsey, and Carly every Thursday as they continue their journey through Onyx Storm. Share your theories, favorite moments, and questions on their Discord Channel or via Instagram DM. Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and support them through Patreon for exclusive content and early access to episodes.

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Thank you for tuning into Dear Fantasy Reader! Fly high with us through the magical realms of the Empyrean series.

Transcript

[Kinsey]

Foreign.

[Hannah]

Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey.

[Carly]

And I'm Carly.

[Hannah]

Join us as we take flight into the world of the Empyrean series, diving deep into Onyx Storm, breaking down characters, scenes, foreshadowing and lore, fangirling over shadowed daddies, building theories as we go, and more.

[Carly]

With that content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everything Empyrean series to this day and any content Rebecca Yarrows has given us. So if you haven't read 4th Wing, Iron Flame and Onyx Storm in its entirety, go do that and we will be here waiting when you are done.

[Kinsey]

Also, due to the nature of these books, this podcast is rated R in content and language.

[Hannah]

As Rebecca Yarros says, readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please take note and prepare to face the storm. We have dragons to ride. Quick Housekeeping the Dear Fantasy Reader May Book Club Livestream will be held on May 28 at 7pm Eastern, covering the Never List by Jade Presley. You can find the information on how to join down in our show. Notes Quick Lightning round of our current reads I have read since our last episode, Book one of the Bridge Kingdom, and then I started book two, which is the Traitor Queen. But for the first time ever, I stopped in the middle of a book and switched to another one because. And hear me out. I got an arc for Courting Death and Desire by CB woods, who's become one of my most favorite authors after reading their debut Rift, which you've also heard me talk about a lot on this podcast. It is an interconnected standalone romantasy to Rift, and I want to point out that I was at a really juicy part in the Traitor Queen and still I jumped books. So I feel like that says a lot because I'm also really excited to get back to that one. I just kind of had to drop everything, you know, it happens. And finally, too many, too many first books.

[Kinsey]

Hey, I've been there. I've definitely done that too. So I'm still reading the Inadequate Heir by Daniel L. Jensen, so hopefully I still stay ahead of you on that one, Hannah. And I am also reading A Fate Forged in fire by Hazel McBride.

[Carly]

I'm also reading A Fate Forged in fire by Hazel McBride. I'm really liking it.

[Kinsey]

What a quotes it is.

[Carly]

I wonder why.

[Hannah]

How interesting, huh?

[Carly]

I'm also still reading Red Queen by Victoria Aveyard and I'm really liking that And I also recently finished Hunger in His Blood by Zoe Draven, and that was a super fun read.

[Hannah]

I know. I keep getting your Red Queen text and I'm like, I can't respond without spoiling something.

[Carly]

Ugh. I have no trust. Okay, this week's Star of Navarre award for a review that made our hearts soar goes to Emmian, who wrote, this is such a great deep dive. I love how the authors make connections between the first two books while theorizing for the new Onyx Storm without ruining the story. A perfect read for before or after reading the second and third books in the series. Thank you so much, Emmy Ann. Your feedback and support means so much to us. If you're also enjoying the show, please consider leaving us a review. It's a small thing that makes a big difference.

[Hannah]

Yes, thank you, Emmy Anne. And also great that they included a spoiler warning because, yes, do not touch us until after you finished fourth week.

[Kinsey]

I think people should know by now.

[Carly]

Yeah, I do appreciate that when people help give spoiler warnings, it's like, yes, yes, please don't spoil the book for yourself.

[Hannah]

At this point, you're definitely used to all of our content warnings, but, like, you never know. That's why we always put one at the beginning. Even 18 episodes deep this season, we're gonna have spoiler warnings.

[Carly]

Well, you never know when someone's gonna accidentally stumble into this podcast.

[Hannah]

Exactly.

[Carly]

We don't wanna ruin it.

[Hannah]

As a reminder, before we dive in, if you would like to jump around to any section of our episodes, you can find the timestamps for each down in our show notes. First objective, breaking into the archives vault for a summary report of chapters 41 through 44. With our squad mate Kinsey, the Irids.

[Kinsey]

Reveal themselves to Violet and Riddick and speak into their minds. Andarna gives her entire life story for judgment. They find out there are hundreds of Irids and they're all bred for peace. And that Andarna is left behind in Avar as a criterion to see if humans have evolved under the wards. As Andarna continues story time, the focus shifts to Violet, and it's revealed the Irids are actually judging Violet, not Andarna. The Irids also surprised Violet by claiming Andarna gifted Violet with a signet more dangerous than lightning, even though Violet has yet to manifest a second signet, Supposedly. Supposedly which she has. Riddick summarizes the results of the conversation best. They think Andarna is a weapon, which is somehow a bad thing. They won't come back to Help us and pretty much think we all deserve to die because we can't solve mankind's oldest problem of how to stop killing each other. Their souls die. So there goes the whole save them to defeat them idea. Zaden and Garak show up, and Zaden is exposed as Venon by the Irid's magic and insulted by this abomination, the Irids leave immediately. Riddick privately demands answers from Violet, and he forces her to draw a line. At what point is Zaden too far gone? Violet says that if he kills another rider unprovoked, or hurts a civilian, hurts her friends, her dragons, or herself, then she knows he isn't himself anymore. Riddick also demands that Violet tell Ri, Sawyer and Jesenia the truth about Zaden. A lightning strike later, Zaden joins Riddick, and Violet agrees that she needs to tell her squadmates for her own protection. Accepting defeat, they head back to Baskaieth. They've suspiciously avoided Wyvern attacks during the journey, and when they arrive, they General Eidos personally delivers a letter from Theophany. He then reveals that Siniva, the capital of Promiel, fell to Dark wielders and that Queen Maria is dead. Quest Squad is separated and questioned. Then they're all let off the hook without punishment because King Tari is relieved to find Arryk alive. In Battle Brief, they learn how the Venon attacks Sineva by Theophany disguising the Wyvern within Stormclouds. Afterward, Violet finally tells her squad and Jesenia that Zaden is slowly turning Venon.

[Hannah]

Grab your leathers, Quest Squad, as we are officially meeting the Irids and failing the mission. Diving right into our analysis and discussion section, starting with the conversation with the Irids. So, as you are all well aware of, a lot was said, so we are going to give some quotes and then discuss them in parts, starting with this question from Andarna where she asks, do you not bond humans? And one of the Irids responds, we do not live with humans. This was such an evasive answer. So I'm wondering, do we. Do you think that the Irids have actually ever bonded a human and they were just evading this question?

[Carly]

Yes.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

Short answer, yes.

[Kinsey]

Yes.

[Carly]

I also want to point out how this Aerith answers this question reminds me so much of how Rebecca Yarros answered so many questions on her Onyx Door tour.

[Hannah]

Sounds about Rebecca.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I don't know why I had it in my head that they straight up said no, that they've never bonded because you could probably find me earlier this Season literally being like, well, the Irids don't have never bonded human. Because I just had that, like, in my head.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So that line kind of changed it for me.

[Carly]

Even if they said no, I wouldn't trust them.

[Hannah]

Yeah, no, that's fine. That's fair.

[Kinsey]

But I've always suspected that Lyra. Is it Lyra or Lyra?

[Carly]

Liryre?

[Hannah]

I think I change it every time.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I've always suspected that Lira has bonded an Irid just because she was one of the first six. But now we know that the Irids are responsible for, like, the wards existing because of the whole Criterion business. But also. And Darna's bonded a human, so I just think they have definitely in the past bonded humans. They don't necessarily have to live with them. I mean, Tarnen and Darna and Sigale don't live with Violet and Zaden like, they live in the Vale.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that's fair. There's an epigraph coming up from Liryre that I think could give us some clarity. Or let us interrogate that a little bit more. The next quote I want to talk about is. It's a long one. You were left behind as the Criterion, the measurement of their growth, their ability to choose tranquility and harmony with all living things. We'd hoped you would return to tell us the humans had evolved, that they had blossomed under the Wardstones and no longer used magic as a weapon, but instead you have shown us the opposite.

[Carly]

I am so frustrated by the Irides because they leave behind an unhatched dragon, as they're like, we're gonna leave behind one unhatched dragon whose, you know, opinion on this matter will be flawless and impeccable, and there's no way they could possibly make any mistakes to prove what. Like, they're so illogical, but they think they're so logical. Like, as if only ever responding with peace is always an option.

[Kinsey]

Not to mention. And Darna, she forgets what happens in her shell, so how's she supposed to know?

[Hannah]

No coaching. She remembers none of that, which is super convenient, until, like, sometimes she all of a sudden is like, oh, yeah, now I remember that when I read this, I was really trying to think back to what that looked like back during the Great War, when all these decisions were being made on, okay, this war is happening. Dragons have decided to bond with humans to fight the Venon, and they've moved into what we know as Besgaeth for the hatching grounds. There and then at the same time period that's when the Irids are leaving. So I'm just very curious. Back to dragon or the egg theory, or chicken or the egg, on whether or how I suppose I should say this plays into Carly, your theory that like to some capacity, the dragons may have actually caused Venin to exist by their use of magic and then human like were attacking humans or whatnot, and then the Venin people became Venon to counterbalance essentially the dragons. And then how all of a sudden bonding riders and making humans in some capacity connected to the magic from dragons, and how that could just have thrown off our whole magic system. How does that play into. I know there's a lot of theories in that, but your overall historical theory.

[Carly]

Of when the eras came into play with this.

[Hannah]

Yeah. How does that play with the idea that the dragons were the evil ones and that the humans were forced to almost respond and resort to becoming venom to protect themselves?

[Carly]

I don't know that the dragons were the evil. I don't know that I want to present them as that, but that they somehow caused this problem. I think that they are somehow a domino in causing this problem. I guess where some of this came from was that this idea that what the planet the Earth provides corrupts people because the magic is there. And so in most magic systems, there's this symbiosis between people and nature and magic. And a lot of these magic systems in fantasy, but in this one, the magic corrupts people. And I think that's really interesting. So I think at some point the magic system got corrupted and people could no longer use it without turning venom. How exactly that happened I'm not exactly sure, but I do think the dragons are responsible for this mess. I kind of have suspected for a while that like the first Venin became Venon because they. They were bonded to an Irid and then became Venon. And so the very first Venon was from an Irid's writer, an Irid's choice. And that's why they have decided to disconnect from this so hard.

[Hannah]

That's the ball. I was waiting to hear you drop that right there because I was like, there's some way, just the way that the Irids are talking about the humans, just for whatever reason, wasn't puzzle piece fitting for the Great War dynamic that we kind of have gotten context clues for?

[Carly]

Well, and I'm wondering if maybe the Arids didn't agree with one of their dragons, one of their den, like bonding with a human. But I think we're going to find out that the reason why Andarna's fire potentially works against Venant is because of this balance of magic. So if her kind created the problem, they're the ones that work against it, and that would make sense in this balance of magic. So that's kind of where I've always leaned from, is that the Aerates are going to be the ones that maybe accidentally were part, like, a significant part of this problem where one of their writers turned Ben in for the first time and then created this problem on accident.

[Kinsey]

And then they're like, we'll just let everyone die out, and it'll be a big experiment, and everyone's going to be under the wards, and we'll just see how it gets handled in a couple hundred years.

[Hannah]

So you're thinking that either the first six were not actually the first six that. I know they weren't the first six that actually bonded for the first time, but they were the first six that stayed bonded. Oh, wait, that actually fits, because I was just gonna say that we know that Venon existed before the Great War.

[Carly]

Yeah. But we also know that the Ayreid's bonds are different. Right. And Darney gets to bond and unbond Violet kind of at will. It almost seems like in this book we don't get all the rules of it. So I'm not exact sure the magic system rules on this yet, but I do think we're gonna find out that maybe they accidentally caused this somehow. I don't know. I definitely think that they're linked to this. I don't think that, like, they're all. All of them are completely innocent to this problem. And I don't buy that the Irids are just like, we never did anything wrong.

[Hannah]

Oh, yeah. No, I totally don't either. I accept.

[Carly]

Okay. I think it's interesting that they assume there are multiple Wardstones. There is this part where they use the word ward stones in there, not ward stone, when they talk about that they've been protected under the Wardstones. But Liryre later states that the second one was never fired. So I want to know why they think there's more.

[Hannah]

That was actually the. I said epigraph, but that was the Lyra epigraph that you're referencing there, where she says that the second one was never fired. What was an epigraph. Right. At some point. Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of with. Would it have made sense? I suppose that actually does fit. That she'd have bonded an Irid to that would have went on to fire the Skaeth. Wardstone. But then they wouldn't have had that extra one. But that's a good point. It's interesting that they say that, oh, you guys can stay protected under the Wardstones. But then literally none of them actually fired the Orishan one, which left so many people to die.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Like, what if there's unfired ones in Peromial that we don't even know about either? Like, it kind of seems like a poor experiment to just only have one small section of the land and then not expect people to fight over their borders to get that safety. Because, like, everyone in Peromial is just, like, stuck by themselves to deal with the Venice.

[Carly]

Well, Violet even says something that alludes to the fact that there was probably more wards a while ago in Iron Flame, because she talks about how when she's researched the wards and all of that back when she's doing all that research in the first half of Iron Flame, she talks about the first wards. The way she says it, it sounds like there's plural sets of wards. And so I've always thought that there was probably more at one point, and then something. They've been extinguished for some reason, and.

[Kinsey]

It wasn't in the context of how the original perimeter of the wards only covered so much, and then they were able to expand them with the outposts.

[Carly]

It's not clear, but there was similar. I can't remember what else it was, but there was similar foreshadowing she did in another way that was like this during the research that, like, you realize there was more than one of something else. And I was like, oh, that's interesting, because it says first wards, and it makes me think that there was more wards than what they have now. It makes me wonder if poor Emile did have wards at one point and they're gone now.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it would certainly be helpful.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Well, it could also come back down to, like, alloy as a resource, because we know that that's part of what it requires to maintain them. But if they just didn't have it anymore. Which, again, falls into the whole they're Boromils trying to take the alloy to protect themselves from Navarre, hoarding it. But. And it's like a vicious cycle. There's another part of this quote that we referenced earlier that I want to discuss the criterion part alongside with the fact that what Carly was saying earlier, she's like, literally a baby. That's so much responsibility and expectation put on. I just don't think it was realistic. But also, the Irids mention that they have been Observing Quest Squad for a while. But literally the Irids are shocked when one of them says she is the Criterion and quote the other five flinch and draw back. One, why would they be offended by that? Two, they must have known that she was an Irid because they. They literally say, we have no interest in the humans and no quarrel with either of you. We've come only to speak with the Irid so they know she's an Irid, but they didn't know until, like, right that moment that she was the Criterion. I feel like that implies that there are other single Irids out there. And I don't know if that's like, groundbreaking, but to me, I kind of assumed they were all together. You know, they mentioned that there's hundreds of them, but maybe not altogether. But then we go back to that. Okay, that explains, like, maybe number two. But we go back to number one. Why would they be offended or, like, scared almost finding out she was the Criterion.

[Kinsey]

I almost wonder if it's less them being offended and more so like them drawing back and flinching because it's like, why would you say that? Like, that's a secret. You're not supposed to reveal the plan because it could be like a double blind study. You're not supposed to know that they're the Criterion, and they're not supposed to know they're the Criterion because if they're aware that they're the Criterion, that they might behave a different way because they know that that's what they're supposed to do. So maybe they were like, how could you say that? You're not supposed to let them know. Yeah, and they're not supposed to know. I don't know.

[Hannah]

I feel like we'd have gotten more context clues that would insinuate that. It almost seemed like a revelation, like, in that moment for them. But maybe it was that they had seen them for however long and had already kind of decided that. But then, like, why would it not have clicked for them that she was the Criterion of they saw her traveling with a whole bunch of, like, your regular breed dragons. Is that not uncommon like we expect it to be?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I think it was more so that they were, like, annoyed that they revealed to and Darna, like, they didn't want her to know. Maybe, I don't know.

[Hannah]

Just don't read it like that. But it's a better answer than nothing, I guess.

[Carly]

I wonder, do we. I don't have that chapter in front of me, but I can't remember if they mentioned that after she reveals her name. And so I'm wondering if maybe them realizing she's the criterion, that there is something special or different about that. Like, maybe she was like the head of their den's egg that they left behind, and they have some responsibility to the head of the den. And they're like, oh, no, we've opened a can of worms finding her.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. They're like, oh, we fucked up. This was not. They're like, we egg swapped, and this was not supposed to be the egg that was left behind. What if she's like royalty to the dragons? And, like.

[Hannah]

Okay, I'm gonna read you guys this section. Skipping a bit. You are the Irid. The male in front of us changes the subject, his giant head tilting as he studies. In Darna, her skills change from black to green to the jungle, then ripple blue, mirroring the sky, just like the male. I am Irid. Holy shit. Riddick says. Was that in Darna? I think they just make that whistle sound. It connects you two Irids, I mutter. And then an Irid says, yet you chose black as your resting color. The female asks Sandarna from the right. It is acceptable in my ho. She breathes out in a huff. In Navarre. She corrects herself. The one diagonally to my left lifts their head. She is the criterion. Navarre? Yeah, Navarre was the location of her being from Navarre.

[Carly]

I'm wondering if there are other. They think that there are other ear eggs out there in different areas to let them know when things are okay in different areas of the world. And her being the Nevarian one, like, she's a criterion for that. And maybe they're flinching because they know that's where the Venin are, and they're like, oh, shoot. Oh, I like that this isn't good, but I wonder if Indarna is that her, specifically, whatever they need from her is important and special, and realizing that the Venon are still a huge problem is not good for them.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I mean, she doesn't know why she waited so long to hatch. Maybe it's like there needed to be some sort of outside influence to cause her egg to hatch in the presence of more venom.

[Carly]

Well, and I wonder if they, like, assumed after all this time that that dragon had died or something, and they just thought it would never become an issue for them, they'd never have to deal with it or something.

[Hannah]

But probably, like, some, like, lore, they were, like, one day, but they didn't assume it would be in their time.

[Carly]

Because I didn't read this as them as offended so much as, like, a oh.

[Hannah]

Yeah kind of reaction. But why react like that at all? But you know what? It's still. Regardless of, like, whatever intention it was, the fact that it took them learning where she was from to react like that indicates a couple of things. One, that there are other single Irids out there in some capacity that that was not assigned to them, that she was the criterion. It also was not assigned to them that she was with other types of dragons, even though technically she was, like, black during. And so maybe the realization that she was an Irid actually did happen in this conversation, but still. Oh, but you know what? At that point, Taryn then enters the chat. Right after that, then he lands. But they've been watching her. So there's just things that I'm like, what can we learn from this interaction that. I don't know. Maybe I'm just rabbit holing a little too much.

[Carly]

I will say, this whole interaction, there are so many little pieces of that are so odd and so specifically written that I'm like, there's a bigger thing happening here for the Irids than what the writers realize is going on. And it's like, we can't. We don't have time to go over every little piece of it. But the whole interaction is just odd.

[Hannah]

And you almost said suspicious. Trying not to.

[Carly]

All right, well, your count for the episode is now one, so.

[Hannah]

Hey, that didn't count.

[Kinsey]

Mine didn't count for the summary, by the way. Real quick. I just want to add too, like, so Riddick can also hear Andarna because the Irids, like, brought him into the conversation. Can he still hear Andarna, or did that connection get cut off, too, like, once the Irid's left?

[Carly]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure my understanding it was cut off when they left.

[Kinsey]

I'm like, wouldn't that be wild?

[Carly]

Yeah, it was, like, still somehow connected. I mean, it's interesting to know, though, that she can just kind of, like, if she wants to, she can talk.

[Hannah]

To whoever she wants or, like, eventually connect whoever she wants to be able to all talk. Like, we could have, like, group huddles with group chats, a bunch of dragons and riders, and everybody just gets to speak. Like, yeah, that's really useful.

[Carly]

Yeah, I would think it's interesting if we could find out, because, like, we know. We know two dragons can bond one rider now, but can a dragon bond two riders? That's what I want to know.

[Hannah]

Unless it's me. No. How dare she even consider it.

[Carly]

What if it was Zaden?

[Hannah]

Oh, I see. Where you're going with this deal.

[Carly]

What if that's secure? What if that's secure? What if her bonding Zaden is the cure?

[Hannah]

Definitely would contradict your original theory that aid writer turned venom, But I guess.

[Carly]

Ordering it could matter. Balancing magic.

[Kinsey]

They have to fix their mistakes.

[Carly]

Saving a Venin. Yeah. Yeah.

[Hannah]

All right.

[Carly]

I like it.

[Kinsey]

Good thing there's hundreds of them so they can all bond here.

[Carly]

Well, we figured it all out. What's the podcast even for now?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, let's turn this off.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Well, speaking of dragon signets. Yeah. Bonding. I don't know if that's technically related, but we'll act like we're kind of.

[Carly]

We have a few things we want to talk about within this part of the conversation. And dragonkind has not learned their lesson either. While you, the male in the center's gaze, jumps to a gifted. Your human with ice. He dares to shift his focus to Taryn. You aren't yours with lightning.

[Hannah]

Oh, what the fuck?

[Carly]

Riddick responds. That's not how signets work. And the dragon continues. And you, the male lowers his gaze to Andarna. Our very hope. Have handed this human something far more dangerous to wield. Haven't you so good.

[Kinsey]

Bum, bum, bum.

[Hannah]

I just want to say, at this moment, I was like, she's fucking compelling people. I was like, doubling. Tripling down that. That's what went on.

[Kinsey]

Me too.

[Hannah]

Yeah, me too. We got some things right, guys. Not the biggest.

[Carly]

All right, first, let's talk about whether we think the dragons do, in fact, decide on the signets. Pointing out that they are implying that this is not an arid specific thing, but all dragons.

[Kinsey]

I mean, dragons lie all the time. So maybe they're also lying about how signets work. But also, I feel like if it truly is the dragon that gifts the signet to their writers, then wouldn't this mean that every single writer belonging to the same dragon should end up having the same signet? Or is it personalized for each writer? If it's their power and their power is gifting the signet to me, it means every single writer that Taryn has bonded should have been a lightning wielder. But instead, we know that that's what.

[Hannah]

He wanted them to have at that time.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. So it's like, is it personal? Is it set? I don't know.

[Carly]

I have said previously that I think that the dragons have maybe figured out to know what to look for to get what they want. So it's maybe not necessarily that. They're like, and here's your wrapped Gift of exactly what I'm giving you. It's. I can recognize in this person, like, what their needs and wants are and their internal.

[Hannah]

Like gambling.

[Carly]

Yeah. Like there's some odds they're playing here and they're figuring out who needs what. Because we also know that the dragon's chemistry takes into a part of it. Because I always found it interesting that Siphon's power is to be able to wield all power, and Violet's is to wield pure power. And I've always found that suspicious that both of those are Taryn's riders. So there's something involved with the dragon's chemistry that I think is giving them an idea of what kind of signets they can power. But I've wondered for a while if they know what to look for to get maybe a category of signets they want.

[Hannah]

I think that's where I'm at because I've been torn for the same reasons. Like, throughout the books, the dragons and Violet and Rebecca in interviews, probably one of the most common things she explains to people is how signets work. And what she'll say is it's based on the unique chemistry between a dragon and the rider. But she implies that is mostly up to the who the rider is and what they need the most. So if the dragons are like all powerful, in control in this situation, that contradicts to me.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

But I really do like the idea that Taryn was able to look for certain traits or sense. Like, he even says at some point that a part of why he picked Violet was her experience in handling pain.

[Carly]

Persevering.

[Hannah]

Exactly. And also shielding one in the same.

[Carly]

Right.

[Hannah]

And so those are things that he was somehow able to sense before bonding. Dragon stuff, you know, and was able to be like, okay, like, if there's gonna be this rare signet of someone who is going to have to experience lightning, who is going to be close to burnout and handle that amount of, like, physical. Granted, we know she's not just lightning, so he would have been choosing. And she has the signal of pure power. Right. But, you know, that might be why he was so shocked. I mean, he was probably gambling for like, something badass, like all, you know, pure power. But he was so shocked and like, not shocked, but just this big. Aha. When lightning wielder, he was proud. Yeah. And you'd think that if he somehow, like, was all powerful and all knowing and like the puppeteer for this, that he would have been able to let her know ahead of time that, hey, you're not just lightning. You also can do other stuff. Like, let's get you working on that. Because we got Bennett in a fight, you know, like, we can't waste time. So there's just some things in there that it would contradict if, for whatever reason, they were fully deciding.

[Kinsey]

I mean, was it Professor Kaori that came up with the idea that the writers choose their signets, or has that ideology been around, like, longer?

[Hannah]

I don't know. I'm not entirely sure. But you know what?

[Carly]

It would.

[Hannah]

That would regardless, be, like. It would make sense that the humans would think that, because it could just.

[Kinsey]

Be a false assumption.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Carly]

Well, I find it interesting that neither Taryn nor and Darna contradict Leathan or whichever Error to say it's dry. Ridiculous. Yeah. So it's just suspicious.

[Kinsey]

Oh, about that. The dragons do it. I thought you meant by him calling her a lightning wielder. Because we know that's not her signet, but he calls her Lightning.

[Carly]

Just that the only one to contradict them is Riddick, Though on this point, the dragons don't.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, that's not how they work.

[Carly]

Violet never brings it up again to be like, hey, Taryn, what did he mean by that? Which, that would have been nice.

[Hannah]

He was probably like, you know, Taryn really does enjoy gossip, even though he acts like he doesn't. And the next line was about what Andarna gifted Violet. And I bet he was like, oh. Oh, what?

[Carly]

Yeah, so I was that.

[Hannah]

To be fair, that was going on. But before we talk about that part, I want to point out that, like, the Irids are detecting signets here because, yeah, like, maybe they had watched for a while and seen that Riddick had wielded ice. Maybe. Technically, I don't think she officially wielded her lightning where they would have seen.

[Kinsey]

Unless they watched an embryo.

[Hannah]

But then, even then, they weren't sure that it was her. Like, she wasn't even sure. So there's just some messy stuff with that. But they especially did not see Violet dream. It's just intriguing to me how an Irid can literally look at them and be like, oh, you're an ice wielder. Like, just. No, that's dangerous.

[Carly]

Well, I wonder if it's just them or if it's also dragons and they're also holding this back that they can tell.

[Kinsey]

Wait, but then everyone would know that Zaden's an intinsic.

[Carly]

Yeah, the dragons would know, but Taryn didn't.

[Kinsey]

He was also upset at Sigale because.

[Carly]

Sigail kept it from him.

[Hannah]

It must be an Irid thing, which does make sense if we go to however deep Rebecca wants to take. Irid's being able to bend and manipulate magic. It does make sense that they would be able to almost visualize magic and see the form it takes in people. But that is so fascinating to me. And I have ethereal. But I'm going to save it for that section. Okay. Going back to talking about Andarna's gift, specifically here, being far more dangerous. We know now that it is dream walking. And we've only seen, according to Rebecca at the Denver Q and A, 10% of her second signet. We've theorized on here many times before that she could manipulate people inside dreams, their actions, motivations, et cetera. Maybe even getting to the point where she can kill them in their dreams. Or that she could be a mind walker outside of dreams, which are all a form of intrinsic and all super dangerous. So makes a lot of sense now in retrospect.

[Kinsey]

I'm just hoping for the compulsion via dreams or something.

[Hannah]

I really hope that that's a part of it.

[Kinsey]

I think she's going to be getting into people's subconscious. But I'm like, that's more dangerous than pure power. I don't know.

[Hannah]

I think that's the difference between what we understand to be a mind reader intensic and what I mean by mindwalker. Because I don't think it's just reading thoughts. I think it's a psyche thing. And she could compel people.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it's like taking away their will. She can force people because just from what we know from Berwyn doing to Zaden, he basically got Zaden to turn via dreams. He planted that into his subconscious and was like, you're gonna do it? You're gonna do it? And then it happened.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I guess he's taunting him, like planting seeds. Yeah, but you guys know I'm like, all for that.

[Carly]

Anyways, for our next topic, let's talk about the Isles seemingly regenerating. This is part of why we think that this happened in the Isles. Perhaps the corrupted one should devour the land in its entirety. The only when they're faced with starvation will they confront the evil they've become. Either they'll die off and the land will regenerate, or they'll confront the abominations they've become and change. And Indarna responds. How do they do that? Their offspring could evolve, perhaps. I'm sorry, what? What did they change evolve into? I demand answers.

[Hannah]

It's like just Me, too. We just keep everything they said. Yes.

[Kinsey]

It's, like, a half answer, but not enough information.

[Carly]

Mm.

[Hannah]

So, first of all, that's clear that Rebecca is telling us that the islands are regenerating, which, if that is the case, because of the color, how pale they are. Some of them are, like, a little bit brighter than others, showing, like, further along in regeneration, which implies that there were venom in there that. That happened to, and that this reset. So, like, this is a pretty common theory. Like, it's not just ours. I think most people who read the book were thinking this, but you're exactly right. All I can think of is hedonists and the eyes. I just keep going back to that. Like, if they were humans and they turned Venan and they were corrupted, but the expectation was for them and their offspring. So their children and their relatives after that are still, like, carrying some sort of veninism, even though it's not a breed. But it's like it's passing down their lineage. But they're evolving into something.

[Kinsey]

Maybe that's why Devarelli is dedicated to peace. And Devarelli is one of those isles that has more color to it.

[Hannah]

Explain what you mean.

[Kinsey]

They don't worship any one God. I think this is what the woman in the library had told them. But they are dedicated to peace, so maybe each isle had their own criterion. The people there were successful. So, like, throughout the generations, over time, they became a peaceful people, and the magic of the land was able to regrow. And unlike Hadatas, which is very monochromatic, still, there's not very much color. Devarelli does have color, so maybe they've just been healing longer, and the people are able. And the land are both able to heal because they're dedicated to peace.

[Hannah]

So you think it's, like, an evolution of their mindset or their ideology, rather than they're evolving into a different form of human venom?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, because, like, with Andarna, they're expecting her to report back that, oh, yeah, like, it's their land of peace. There's no war going on. We're not using the magic for war and battle and all that. So maybe it's, like, related, but I don't know. Like, I don't think they're becoming, like, a different subspecies of human. I think they have to change, like, their ideology.

[Hannah]

Just pausing for a second just to re. Emphasize how fucking wild that is to expect. Carly, you said it earlier, like, some people are not in a position to choose peace.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

They did not leave them in a position to choose peace even after the Great War. Like, they gave humans that were not in the Wardstone parameters a year to move into it. You're talking about resources, room for people. And then some people couldn't get in there. But the Venin are still out there. Like, we know that you couldn't actually expect that even in due time.

[Carly]

No, I mean, none of it is, like, realistic or favorable for most people. Most people don't choose war. It chooses them. And to expect people to just, what, not try to survive? Like, that's. I don't know what they expect of people other than to try to survive.

[Hannah]

And I think we took this line out of the outline, so I'll go ahead and say it here, but they even tell and Darna, like, the world wasn't ready for you. But I beg to differ, because I don't think we would have a story, at least the way Rebecca has chosen to set it up since she added Andarna. Without Andarna, Violet would not be defeating these dark wielders.

[Carly]

Well, they wouldn't have survived the Battle of Bascaia. They wouldn't have gotten the wards up without her had she not been there.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God.

[Carly]

And her fire came, like, right then. Like, it was like. Cause she noticed her breath smelling like sulfur on the journey over. And then she breathed fire that day. And so it's like, literally just in time to save them.

[Hannah]

They're fucking wrong in every facet of the word.

[Carly]

You know, they just come from this incredible place of privilege where they're just like, oh, well, we just, you know, we just chose better. And it's like, well, you had better options and capabilities to make those choices also.

[Hannah]

Fuck them for making that choice to just like, leave people. Anyways.

[Kinsey]

We can talk about that.

[Hannah]

Can you tell we don't like the Irrets? Yeah, yeah. Surprise, surprise. I thought I was not going to feel that way, but here we are. Okay. Andarna asks, is that the dark wielder's cure to evolve? They respond, there is no cure. And Endarna responds, if they trade their soul, surely they can get it back. And the Irid says, it is not a trade. The soul is not kept by the Earth, as dark wielders steal its magic. The power exchange kills the soul one piece at a time. And death has no cure. Two parts to this. One, I think we should discuss whether we think there's a cure or not. And two, what we think that this means now that Zayden is hanging on by the smallest of pieces of soul. Which essentially means he's basically dead at the end.

[Carly]

I do personally think there's gonna be. I don't know if I wanna call it a cure, but, like, a path back. I think that path is going to involve choices, multiple choices, choosing the right thing over and over again. But I do think there's a path back to, like, not being Venon. I don't know what that looks like yet.

[Hannah]

I think I lean to your theory that they have to get rid of magic. I think it's just. It's not a cure that we consider just righting the world with. As much as I would love that.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

With everything else kind of being able to stay the same.

[Carly]

Yeah. I do think they're gonna have to give up power.

[Hannah]

Well, and that could make sense why the Irids are saying there's not a cure, because they're not gonna want to give up their power if they have to. I don't know if their magic system is technically linked in the same ways.

[Carly]

But I don't know that it's gonna be as simple as just giving up their signets and, like, giving up that. But I do think it's gonna. That's gonna be a part of it, because I know I've said this so many times, but, like, they're in an arms race with the. The signets seem to have kicked off this arms race of power. So how do you balance that magic out without getting rid of it? Getting rid of their weapons? I don't know. How else do you do it?

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I think there is a cure. And I don't know if I'm just being delusional in this one aspect of the story.

[Hannah]

I support that.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. But I think that part of the cure is that Satan has to die. Hear me out. So the female Irid said death has no cure, but that's not entirely true because Brennan was cured from death. Naolin resurrected him. And when the male Irid said they'll either die or change. No, Venon has been cured before because they never desired to change. So, Carly, you were kind of talking about it earlier how I think there's a path back, but they have to keep making all of these right choices. So maybe that is where this comes in. And they have to choose to die. Their soul's already dead, but they have to choose to actually physically d. Die before Onyx Storm. I did say. Okay. I think Brennan and Sloane are key to finding a cure. That maybe Brennan would heal Zaden's soul and that Sloane would siphon the magic back to the source. Now we know that's not really a possibility. But what if they help Zaden by instead resurrecting him? Just like Naolen did for Brennan? I think Zaden has to have a desire for change. Sloane can siphon life back into Zaden and Brennan can also help to heal him. But let's also not forget how cagey Taryn has been about what actually happened to Naolen. I think that's for a reason. We, the readers, know next to nothing about what transpired between Naolan, Taryn, Brennan and or what Brennan's rune shaped scar means. And I think Violet is hopefully in the next book going to force them to actually fess up about what happened with the resurrection process. I don't know. I. I just feel like maybe something going on. That's probably why we don't know yet. Rebecca's like, withholding this information from us as the readers. They have to cure death to cure Zaden, which means Zaden will have to die, not just a soul. So imagine. And this is where I also go to like, imagine the panic we as the readers will get where it's like, xaden's dead. And you like flip the page and you're like, oh my God. And then it's like, oh, psych. Like, he's fine.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I'd be fucking pissed.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, no, I'd be pissed too.

[Hannah]

Oh, God.

[Kinsey]

Could you imagine if she like ended book four that way?

[Hannah]

I could. I could imagine very much that she would do that.

[Carly]

I'm not gonna say which one. I don't want to have to put a spoiler warning, but there is a popular fantasy series out there that has a jump scare death that's not real. I will say it made me very angry. I remember it being very unpopular when I told people, I'm like, if you're gonna do that, you should just left them dead. And people were really mad about that. No, I was like, I just. But I don't like. I personally don't like a jump scare death like that. Where they're like dead and then not dead.

[Kinsey]

Hopefully it's planned.

[Carly]

I feel like I've heard Rebecca Yarros say in interviews that once somebody's dead in her series, they're gonna be dead.

[Kinsey]

She basically saw the impact. Yeah.

[Carly]

It makes me wonder what really happened with Brennan. If he really did truly die or if he was just close to death and was brought back by Nalan. I'm not sure.

[Hannah]

I mean, I just want to point out that that line about Brennan and that situation, the professor said, if you were able to resurrect someone, that makes you a God. And I feel like that line of whatever actually happened, there's a God involved. Like, there's something or that is too loaded of a statement to not pay off.

[Kinsey]

Loyal will come in and be like, okay, fine. You guys are, like, so in love.

[Hannah]

I'll help you resurrect your perfect book for me.

[Kinsey]

I'll resurrect your soul.

[Carly]

Because you guys love each other. Totally. Like, he's dead, and then. Oh, just kidding. Never mind. I'm not gonna kill him. I don't like that.

[Kinsey]

I think it would be planned. Like, they'd be like, okay, last resort. We're gonna kill him to resurrect him.

[Carly]

Gotcha.

[Kinsey]

Save his life.

[Carly]

I'd be okay with that. Like, a flatliner situation. But I did remember that line in Fourth Ring where he tells, like, to resurrect you, he's gonna be a God. Because I was like, well, maybe Nayland's been, like, elevated to some sort of lower deity. I've theorized that before. And maybe he's helping Violet from the other side. Helping her. And I've wondered that because I think that that line is very suspicious.

[Kinsey]

Look, there's a reason we don't know what happened. Rebecca. Give us the reason, please.

[Carly]

He also, I think, in that same scene, gives a very suspicious answer to what a siphon does. Cause he says, like, they can channel magic. Like, he was, like, talking about all the places that siphons can channel magic from. And then he just says, like, oh, in other sources. What is others? Like, what does that even mean? He's like, other writers, other dragons and other sources or something like that. I'm like, what? What's the other.

[Kinsey]

So can Sloane, like, channel from the gods directly? Like, is it similar to Violet's pure power? Like, she can just take wherever. I mean, like, Sloane was freaking out the first time that she ever channeled. She's like, I promise I'm not a venin. Like, I'm not like them. I didn't turn. Like, maybe she can.

[Carly]

I just wonder if, like, siphons can take magic from the ground as long as they're not taking it from the self. As long as they are, like, moving the magic thing, and it's like a free pass, as long as they're just, like, a conduit for where it moves through. Like, if that's. Yeah, exactly. Like a free pass. Like a get out of jail free card. Like, you can do that. But that's what I've wondered. But I don't know how it would be helpful unless they need to, like, power a Wardstone or something like that.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, well, they still need to imbue the daggers to fight the venom. That's true.

[Hannah]

I just want to point out the part that says the soul is not kept by the earth as dark wielders steal its magic, because if not, where is it kept? And I think the most obvious thought process there is Malak. And I almost wonder if something to do with the cure is, like, at some extent you have to get your soul back to not be a Venn.

[Carly]

Right?

[Hannah]

That's what makes you one is not having one. So there's gotta be some deal made at some point, whether that is from one God to another, like Loial to Malak in the name of Zayden, or an agreement by all gods in the pantheon. Or it's gonna come down to some capacity to a deal with Malak.

[Kinsey]

Maybe he has to become a priest of Malak. Be like, please give me my soul back.

[Hannah]

I just.

[Carly]

I don't like it. I don't.

[Hannah]

I like the idea that he'd have to become dedicated to anyone because I don't want his future being, like, in a temple.

[Kinsey]

Nah.

[Hannah]

Unless that's Ryerson House.

[Kinsey]

You know what I mean?

[Carly]

I mean, I don't think that's the worst case scenario. But I have wondered that though, because, like, once Theophany was dedicated and become Venon, like, she couldn't go to temple. And I wonder if, like, if you're a Venin and then get dedicated, maybe you can't channel anymore because maybe you have some sort of lease on your soul from the God you're dedicated to or something.

[Kinsey]

I mean, he had to go to temple to get married. But that's just. Theophany was like. Because she, like, abandoned Dune.

[Hannah]

Yeah, she was dedicated first and then she forsake. What is it called? It's forsaken. But I don't know what the Forsoak.

[Kinsey]

Forsook.

[Hannah]

Forsook.

[Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Carly]

I'm good with it.

[Hannah]

She had forsaken Dune by turning Venon after she had already. Essentially. Essentially, when you dedicate your life to this God, everything is in their name. And all of a sudden you're choosing to like. For her reasoning specifically was to become a God herself. So it's like blasphemy, you know, I could see that being why he was able to go in.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I don't know. Either way, we gotta hope that Zaden still wants to be cured because if he doesn't want it, then there's no hope.

[Hannah]

I was waiting to bring this up, but Carly sent us a screenshot earlier today. I think it was you.

[Carly]

It probably was. I'm just like, I'm so the person that's always so behind on the group chat that I'm always surprised when it's me.

[Hannah]

It was a screenshot of Rebecca and her family for Star Wars May 4 when she posted it and someone commented and was comparing Zaden to Anakin and she was like, da, da da, no. Or something like that. She shut down, eh?

[Carly]

No, no, not like Anakin.

[Hannah]

At least we're not like losing him to the dark side fully, you know.

[Carly]

Well, and I just want to remind people that she has said in the past that, like, romance writers have a contract with readers for a happily ever after and that she loves romance books because happily ever afters are her favorite part.

[Hannah]

So though careful, she's got some. She does not live up to that.

[Carly]

I'm just holding onto that.

[Hannah]

Forewarning everyone.

[Carly]

I'm holding onto it.

[Hannah]

I fully accept that this series will end out on a happily ever after.

[Kinsey]

Technically, Violet already got her happily ever after because she's married to Satan.

[Hannah]

That is not all there is to it, but I will step off my.

[Kinsey]

Nah, I'm with you.

[Hannah]

Next topic. But kind of like still in this eerie conversation, I'm wondering what you two make of this portion about Andarna's fire killing Venon. Andarna says, our kind must have helped. I can burn Dark wielders. Are we the key to defeating them? One of the male Irids says, hopeless Leathan. I have heard enough. And the squad starts to sign to each other for a few pages. But the next thing that is said is, you are magic. The female Irid says, a note of sadness in her tone. And yet all you seek to use it for is violence. So to me, they don't seem surprised by her saying that she was able to burn dark wielders, but they do call her hopeless. So I personally find this interaction kind of confusing because Aether and Darna cannot kill Venon with fire and they're calling her hopeless because they just spent a whole chapter explaining to her how they were bred for peace and how they are not weapons. But yet she's still asking. But I just don't really see why Rebecca would even include it at all. All of these mentions her actually being able to do it if she really can't, if there's no Actual payoff to be had. So the alternative is that they're lying or, like, evading answering her and, like, condescendingly talking at her and contradicting themselves about not being weapons. And they actually can, which would make it worse, because if they know they can defeat the thing that's harming all of these people and all of dragonkind, you'd think they'd fucking do something to help.

[Carly]

I don't know that they know that they can. I'm wondering if maybe they can't, but Indarna can. Because Indarna's evolved, just like they suggested that the Venon needed to do. Maybe Indarna's evolved.

[Hannah]

Ooh, wait, I like that.

[Kinsey]

Me, too. I was thinking on the same wavelength as Hannah. Like, okay, they just think she's hopeless. Not because she can't wield fire against Venon, but because they're like, it's.

[Hannah]

This girl is delusional. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

They're like, you're still wanting to be a weapon even after finding out that we're bred for peace. So you're, like, going against your nature. But I like the idea that Andarna has evolved just like they claim the Venin need to. And the people.

[Carly]

Yeah, maybe this thing where they're telling them, like, oh, the people could evolve, their offspring could evolve. Maybe that has been going on at Navarre. And maybe Andarna is a sign of that.

[Hannah]

Which proves all the more that the world was ready for her and that.

[Carly]

The Irids can suck it.

[Kinsey]

And if they wanted a more statistically significant study result, they should have had more Irides left behind and be one.

[Hannah]

That could remember what the fuck they asked them to do.

[Kinsey]

You can't say it's significant if it's only one result.

[Hannah]

That's fair. Huh?

[Kinsey]

Oh, man.

[Hannah]

I do not like them. Okay, we're finally getting to the end of the Irid conversation. Okay, one last quote. Leathan may feel differently, but our majority has determined you are Irid in scale and name only, Andarna. You will not be allowed entrance to our isle, nor instruction in our ways. We part here and wish you peace. How fucking ironic.

[Carly]

Why don't they just add a thoughts and prayers while they're at it?

[Hannah]

Say vibes. That's what that gives. Yeah. Because how are they saying, we wish you peace, knowing they're condemning them all literally to death?

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And they're like, but you should just be peaceful. As if that would do. Anything in their situation will never welcome.

[Kinsey]

You home, but good luck dying.

[Hannah]

You're gonna walk up to the dark wielders and be like, you know what, you guys, we just wanna call a truce. And then the dark wielders are gonna drain the earth below them and they're gonna die. Like, yeah, it's giving.

[Carly]

You just need to work harder. Like, I can't tell you guys how much I don't like the irides. Like, I really don't like them.

[Hannah]

Theme of this episode. Yeah. But I just like, poor Andarna. That's so heartbreaking. And it's not even just that they said this, because I know that y' all were like, why are we having to read this whole quote? Because of how harsh they worded it. Like, that is awful. You're an Irid in scale and name only. After she just spent a whole book picturing this, like, idealized version of her family and pushing away her chosen family because, like, they just didn't have that same expectation. And, like, kind of saw it was rose colored glasses. It just. And she's still just a baby, which I know is kind of their point. And they're not wrong about that part. But, like, it's sad. And then they failed the mission because, like, that's what all this shit was about.

[Carly]

Poor baby.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I wish, like, we would have gotten more answers than questions from the ear aids, because I feel like I just left that conversation with more questions than I did answers. And also just frustration and sadness for Andarna, but I.

[Hannah]

That just perfectly represents the entire rest of the book.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but not saying out loud.

[Hannah]

No. I was depressed as fuck when I finished this book.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I do feel like, though, that there is something to be said, though, for writing this in a way where when you idealize something in your head and then you get it and it doesn't come to fruition the way you hoped it would, and you don't get, like, the closure or acceptance you're hoping for. As sad as it is, it does feel more similar to the actual human experience. So there is that.

[Hannah]

There is that. Thanks for being realistic, Rebecca. I thought this was a fucking fantasy novel.

[Kinsey]

Are we ready for our last topic?

[Carly]

Yes.

[Kinsey]

All right. And our last topic. Riddick finds out about Zaden. And he says, quote, we have to keep him on our side or this war is already lost. There isn't a writer alive capable of stopping him at full power now, let alone what he could become if he truly turns.

[Hannah]

Yikes.

[Carly]

I hate this. But I also knew it was inevitable. But I kind of think that Violet's gonna be Tasked with the job of killing Zayden once it's common knowledge that he's been in. Cause at the end of the book, I wasn't really sure if people are just thinking he is, but not sure.

[Hannah]

I walked away at first thinking there's no way they didn't know. But if the people who were there keep it on wraps and protect him, potentially we could have a bit of the book where it hasn't quite come out. Exactly how things went down.

[Carly]

Yeah. If the people that were there are either missing or have their memories erased, who is there to confirm?

[Kinsey]

I mean, there's a whole city that was covered in shadows. That's too much power.

[Carly]

Maybe, though, they're going to like, say he like, burned out or something. But like, I just wonder though, once it's common knowledge, I think it's very likely it'll be common knowledge. But once it is, they're gonna be like, your job is killing Zade.

[Hannah]

Well, two things I want to say. One, it already seems like he's getting pinned for the eggs, regardless of if he's the one that stole them. Maybe that's where they drew the line of like, we could have maybe kept this on wraps, but you're fucking done. Who knows? But I want to point out that Violet herself even says here that she wouldn't kill him and that she would also need a few years to be as powerful as he is. Like, to catch up to his level with her abilities. Enough to finally be able to kill him. Like, I know he went on this whole like, I'm teaching you how to kill me thing, but, like, come on.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I kind of took another route for that one. So this is a trigger warning for self harm. So please skip ahead if you do not want to hear this part. But I think maybe Violet will be the one to do it by sacrificing herself. I don't think she's going to have the time to train to become more powerful than Zayden. Like, if it really gets down to it, she doesn't technically have to be stronger than Zayden. Their bond connects him. And that's part of the reason why Zaden agrees with Riddick. Hey, you have to tell your squad mates because, like, once people find out I'm Venon, they're not just going to try to kill me, they're going to try to kill you to kill me. So.

[Hannah]

Well, two things come to mind with that. For one, that is not a fucking happily ever after. That would be awful. I highly doubt that. Like, that's like, yeah, they go to heaven.

[Kinsey]

I don't know.

[Hannah]

Like, I don't see that happening. I see why you think that. But also, on the other hand, we don't know that if Zaden dies that Violet would like. We only know that right now Taran would die. But then we have the question of if they even unbol, like unmated. So it's like it got messy. I hope it's messy enough that like, that would not be the result. Because I would riot if they offed themselves.

[Kinsey]

What if they're mates after all, like Taryn has suggested.

[Hannah]

Oh my gosh.

[Kinsey]

For the record, I don't want this to happen. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here.

[Carly]

Yeah, I don't love that option, but I could see Violet be self sacrificing enough to do that if she thought he had gone too far and was going to like be the end of the continent, that she would do that.

[Kinsey]

Maybe that'll pull Zaden back from whatever rampage he's like going through. He'll be like, oh, shit, I should stop and not do this.

[Hannah]

I don't like this topic.

[Kinsey]

Next topic. Later on in the conversation, Riddick gets Violet to make a deal with him that he will turn Zaden in if it gets too far. If it's not well known by everyone that Zaden is Venom after the end of Onyx Storm, do we think Riddick will turn Zayden in?

[Hannah]

You know, I don't really think so because Riddick points out in that conversation, as you just mentioned a bit ago, that everyone is going to come after Violet when they find out that Zayden's going to be like, just like he says, first year again, to try and kill her, to then kill him. And one beautiful part that we get about this set of chapters is how Riddick is very much. I'm going to bat for you. I'm looking out for you in this situation because so far everyone has been looking out for him. I think that he would be forced in a position where it's either he tells Zayden, hoping to protect Violet indirectly, but also in doing that he would endanger her even more. And he's not going to.

[Carly]

I would see him helping Violet go into hiding before he would like, turn Zaden in to keep her protected.

[Kinsey]

Where could they go? They're gonna go to Orisha. Like they're gonna think, oh, Ryerson House.

[Carly]

I don't know, maybe they'll take off to Devorelli or something.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it won't be Zelnya I tell you that.

[Hannah]

I don't know. It's Riddick.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, that's true.

[Hannah]

I just feel like the way it's set up, we're gonna get to see Violet and Orisha leading for a good chunk of the book, at least the first good portion of it.

[Carly]

I think that would be good for her character arc, so I'd like to see that happen.

[Hannah]

I think I'd be more interested to see that than her having to regress in hiding.

[Carly]

Yeah, I'd like to see her have to handle the politics of it. I think that would be really interesting.

[Kinsey]

Especially having to juggle that with her third year at Baskaya. Unless they graduate her. Who knows?

[Carly]

Maybe it's how book four will end. Her and Riddick will go on the lam together.

[Hannah]

You know what? I was down for Devarelli and Onyx Storm. I'd have stayed there.

[Kinsey]

I wouldn't be mad about it.

[Hannah]

I'm actually surprised to say that, because I'm a magic girl. But, like, happy shadow Daddy. Come on. Like, what a trade. God, you wouldn't be a shadow dad anymore. But Zayden, I actually hope there's a time jump until after her third year. Like, I think we've seen enough of Buzgaeth. We can get some bits of it, but I really want to see her at full power, and I don't want it to just be, like, half of the last book. Like, I really want to see her graduated. And like she said, she needs a few years to be that powerful. I want to see it.

[Kinsey]

I think a time jump would be really nice because already we didn't really experience much of her at Bascaeth with her going on Quest Squad and everything else. It'd be kind of nice because it's just. I don't know, it's just such a pain with the timing of everything going on, like, the back and forth, the back and forth. It'd be kind of nice to have a jump. I just don't know how she'll work it in time.

[Carly]

Jumps are hard.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

Oftentimes I think I want one, and then when I get it, I'm like, well, what happened during that time period? And then I want to know. I want to disappoint.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

And, like, Iron Flame and Onyx Storm both started immediately where it left off. So I really don't see her doing a time jump for book four.

[Hannah]

Well, we're right at the end of second year at this point. Right. So then that would mean book four would be third year, and then Book five. Maybe we get after graduation when she is, like, more powerful. But I just. At some point, I really want to be able to see that. Or Rebecca, maybe write us a sixth book. I'm not saying you have to do it, but I'm saying, like, that's what I'm thinking of. If we only get two, I would rather see more in the future with her being more powerful.

[Carly]

Maybe we'll get a novella or something between. That would be cool.

[Hannah]

Deal.

[Kinsey]

I'll take it. All right, speaking of time, it's time to head on over to the healers quadrant to take a temperature check on our characters, our favorite moments, and standout quotes. Who was hot for us this week? Let's count down. 3, 2, 1. Ridden.

[Hannah]

Guys, we finally did the countdown, right? Yeah. I'm so impressed by him in this set of chapters. I feel like we got to see so much growth, a different side of his character than we've really gotten to see. He seemed to be, like, the only one with just a clear mindset. He was getting shit done. He was like, all right, I just processed this information in 0.5 seconds. And now you need to tell this person, this person, this person. This is the only way I'm not turning you in. This is the way I'm keeping you safe. And nobody else around us has been paying attention to keeping you safe. They've been paying attention to. And that changes right now. And he did that, like, with, like, a little bit of attitude.

[Kinsey]

It was such a breath of fresh air. I was like, thank God someone is using their head. I mean, he was funny in these chapters. He was using his head in these chapters. I loved how protective he was. Like, he was just such a good friend and exactly what Violet needs right now.

[Carly]

He was such a great friend to her. And, like, my honorable mention was also RI, who when she tells RI that Zaden is slowly turning venom, her initial response is to just talk, to tell her everything. And I'm like, that is such a good friend. Where you're like, just tell me everything. And not jumping to conclusions and berating her, which is what Mira did. Yeah. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Well, we don't fucking like her around here. I did want to point out that it calls back to Fourth Wing. The last thing that Liam said to Riddick was maybe slightly paraphrasing here, but, like, protect her. Like, I would.

[Kinsey]

He's gonna keep doing it. He's gonna keep doing it.

[Hannah]

Like, actually, we can't cry over Liam.

[Kinsey]

Something that won't make us cry. Who is not hot for Us Irids. I said literally all of the Irids.

[Carly]

Like, yeah, yeah. In addition to the Irides, I'm gonna make people mad and say Andarna, because she hurt my sweet baby Taryn when he was trying to defend her.

[Hannah]

She was a hurt baby.

[Carly]

He was trying to defend her to the ear. And she's like, you don't speak to her that way. And she's like, stop embarrassing me and hurt him so bad. And I'm sorry. But if she is old enough in Dragonland to get to make all of her own decisions and to know her own mind, then she can take responsibility for hurting my precious baby Angel.

[Hannah]

Taryn, I do need an apology because those moments hurt my heart so much. And we got them sprinkled out, like, through the beginning of the book. Yeah.

[Carly]

My jaw literally dropped. I was like. Like, when I read that, I was.

[Hannah]

Like, how could you?

[Kinsey]

I mean, he was coming to her defense, and she was like, yeah, as family would.

[Hannah]

I know she's not choosing it right now, but, like, that is her father figure, and that hurts me. So I don't think she was as bad as the Irids, but I understand for that moment why she was in that. Okay. More positive. Yeah, we're gonna.

[Kinsey]

I. Favorite moments.

[Hannah]

My first one was and Darnet and Riddick, quote, I blinked in and out of consciousness in my shell years, and Riddick says, we're gonna be here for a while. Yeah, I know that's also a quote. But, like, the moment is just adorable. And then, of course, like, our found family reunion, which we didn't really discuss.

[Kinsey]

Much, but, well, the story time with Andarna reminded me. There's this Instagram account, and I wish I knew their username, but, like, they make animations of and. And it's literally like, story time with Andarna.

[Carly]

Oh, I've seen that.

[Kinsey]

She, like, explains, like, the whole plot of 4th Wing and Iron Flame. So, like, this whole scene just reminded me of that creator's content. It was so cute. But anyway, my favorite moment was Riddick's entire conversation with Violet. He, as I have already said this, he's an incredible friend. He forced her to draw the line so that she could be protected. Like, you need someone to have those hard conversations with you.

[Carly]

So, yeah, I think my favorite is them using sign language to secretly communicate right in front of the arids. Yeah, I loved this. I latched onto it immediately because I used to know a lot more sign language than I know now because I had taken several sign language classes. But I've lost it over time, but my husband and I would do this. I love that we would use sign language to communicate with each other, like, in crowds and stuff, so other people would know what we were saying.

[Kinsey]

I love that. I know minimal sign language just for, like, scuba diving, but, yeah, I want to know more.

[Hannah]

And your favorite quote, Carly, because you just got one this week.

[Kinsey]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Carly]

My favorite quote this week was a Riddick quote. He said, I also don't want you to think that just because you're scary, I'm scared of you. And Riddick adds, which I'm not. And Zayden responds, you are.

[Hannah]

I'm surprised you didn't put the lightning strike one with it.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

So good.

[Kinsey]

I have technically two. So the first one's a quote from Riddick. He said, damn, this breed apologizes. Maybe we should have held out. So. And then this is a conversation between Violet, Zaden, and Riddick. Violet says, absolutely not. Dane will kill you. And Zaden says he could try. The attempt would certainly make things awkward. And Riddick says, I'm with Violet on this one. While I'm proud of how far Ados has come in the rule bending department, he's not ready to graduate to this particular level.

[Hannah]

I have to say, I totally think Dane suspected at this point, and they did not give him the grace he actually deserved. But I'll hold that one. So my quotes. I'll start with. I'll start with Zaden. It wasn't a big enough strike. And now I see why you didn't have that one. Because I did.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, that's why. That was one of his best.

[Hannah]

And then Violets, let me know when you're done brooding, and we'll see how big my next strike is. Okay, Good girl. Then we get Andarna. You preach peace while only having known its privilege. That gives me chills and is objectively the best line in the book. And then Endarna again for my human. She is part of me as I am of her. You undervalue our connection.

[Kinsey]

Aww.

[Hannah]

So which one's my favorite?

[Kinsey]

Wasn't a big enough strike.

[Carly]

Yeah, it has to be the Zaden one.

[Hannah]

I'm gonna actually say it's the Indarna one, and I'm so shocked which one. You preach peace while only having known its privilege.

[Carly]

I will say, I think that that's one of the best lines in the.

[Hannah]

Series I really like. That's such a powerful one. But also, it wasn't a big enough strike, Honestly, you guys. But that is my first Week where my top one has not been Zaden.

[Carly]

But might be the first and only. We'll see how the rest, though.

[Hannah]

And I just want to shout out to our book club members real quick because they came prepared with what they thought my favorite quotes were gonna be from Riftborne and Duskbound, and I have never felt more special and more honored in my life. I love you guys. That's absolutely adorable.

[Carly]

I love that.

[Hannah]

Please keep doing that.

[Carly]

It was so.

[Kinsey]

Please keep doing that. Yes.

[Carly]

It was so fantastic. I loved that so much.

[Kinsey]

I just thought it wouldn't be a big enough strike. Would be your favorite from this week because that's one of my favorite savedan quotes, like, ever.

[Hannah]

It's so good.

[Kinsey]

I love that quote. It was so funny.

[Hannah]

It's hard to go up with with the Andarna one. That Andarna one Man.

[Kinsey]

Serious or funny and sexy.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Typically I lean to, like, the romantic, you know, sexual one, but that sometimes I've got some, like, depth. Sometimes that's not just to the hilts.

[Carly]

I feel like. I feel like Hannah leans.

[Hannah]

Really? No, Carly, you acknowledge how good that what I just said was. Thank.

[Carly]

I'm sorry.

[Hannah]

Thank you. Communication skills. We're practicing them.

[Carly]

I'm glad you know what that means now.

[Hannah]

I do. I've noticed it every time in a book and I'm like, how did I not connect this? Okay, go ahead.

[Carly]

I was gonna say I think Hannah leans towards the romantic quotes, Kinsey leans towards the funny quotes, and I lean towards the violent ones. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Because especially you were like, one of your most favorite of all time is Iron Flame, where Zaden says, everyone.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

When he's asked who he killed for her.

[Carly]

It's one of my favorite quotes in the whole series. It's so good.

[Kinsey]

My favorite Iron Flame quote was when he was like, I'll meet Malak by your side.

[Carly]

I was like, sir, fuck me up. I'd rather a guy told me he's gonna kill everybody for me.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

In real life, it just doesn't hit the same, you know, Red Flag, Serial killer.

[Kinsey]

All right.

[Carly]

I mean, I also read dark romance, so yeah.

[Hannah]

You know.

[Carly]

Now let's stop by the scribe quadrant for our epigraph analysis of the most thought provoking epigraphs.

[Kinsey]

The chapter 41 epigraph reads, what we know about dragonkind is nothing compared to what we don't. Colonel Kaori's Field Guide to Dragonkind.

[Hannah]

Yeah, we're pretty well aware of this at this point. But it is, to me, both ironic that the series name is Empyrean and notable that Kaori didn't even know that the Dragon government was called the Empyrean until Violet's threshing. Violet's threshing. That's all we really have to say about that one.

[Carly]

The Chapter 42 epigraph reads, While the enemy's advance throughout Krobla makes it impossible to station a full riot at Siniva, we offer you four Dragons and their riders. In the spirit of our alliance, you may expect a shipment of our most valuable resource weaponry to be used at your discretion. Official correspondence of General Augustine Melgren to Queen Maria.

[Kinsey]

This epigraph foreshadows the attack on Stneva. It is the order that sent the riders who perished as the Venin overtook the city. Also, it's very possible this message was intercepted by a Venin spy. Pancheck. And that's how they were able to kill 25,000 civilians. They knew to target the weaponry and then took out the Queen.

[Hannah]

That was one of my Easter eggs.

[Carly]

Fuck you.

[Kinsey]

This has been in the epigraph section.

[Hannah]

My notes were in before any of y' all touched this.

[Carly]

What else are we supposed to put for the epigraph?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it's the epigraph, though. Okay.

[Carly]

The chapter 43 epigraph reads, quote, if possible, hunt the enemy during the day. Their markings are so easily hidden by the shadows of night that it would not surprise me to find they walk among us.

[Kinsey]

Us.

[Carly]

A compendium by Captain Drake Cordella. The Nightwing Drift.

[Kinsey]

This epigraph shows us how subtle the features of the Vennon really are, that the shadows of night so easily conceal their features as to not be able to identify them as Vennon. This could also be in part as to why they are called Dark Wielders, as they may have originally stuck to moving about at night so as to not be caught.

[Hannah]

The chapter 44 epigraph has some strikethroughs, so I'm gonna say that after the portion that would be struck through, the Chapter 44 epigraph reads. Your Majesty, unfortunately, I can find no law that supersedes the Unification Scrolls. The provincial commitment under Queen Elandra the Bold. Consolidating the province's armies under the Queen's standard for the Paromish conflict expired with the second Orisha Accord, and control of all forces should strike through. Must return to the provinces from which they hail. I recommend demanding, asking for a new provincial commitment covering our current conflict. The provinces will never agree after the rise in conscription rates. My advice, do not anger Tyrandor's Duke who now commands the largest portion of our army. Strike through Screw this. I hate my job. Strike through Unsent Drafted correspondence of Colonel Agatha Mayfair, Royal Archivist.

[Carly]

This epigraph demonstrates that control of the Teish army is no longer under King Tari, but Zaden, Duke of Tyrandor, and.

[Hannah]

Now Violet Zaden, Duke of Tirandor.

[Carly]

The fact that she now commands the largest portion of Navarre's army is going to play a huge role in Book four, where Violet is going to have a huge amount of political influence. Pair that with her dragons and she is in control of the country. Essentially, once the second Orisha Accord was signed which reinstated Daton as Duke of Tyrandor, it nullified the provincial commitment from year 207 that had left the monarchy of Nevar in control of the Tyrrish Army.

[Hannah]

Now take flight with us to the hatching grounds for our Easter eggs and moments of foreshadowing, including moments that stood out during this reread, starting with chapter 41. This is more of a clarification point, but we find out that all Irids are are feathertails. But important to clarify that not all feathertails are Irids, as all juvenile dragons do have feather tails until they transition to the adolescent stage, so feather tails do not automatically equal Irid.

[Carly]

Next, going back to a moment during the conversation with the Irids, they ask why would you participate in Harvest? This is weird, because they're referring to threshing here, and Darna refers to threshing twice in this conversation. However, back in Iron Flame, Marin refers to threshing as harvest, which I find highly suspicious using my favorite word. And this may have resulted in some unhinged voice memos sent to Very unhinged. But I want to point out it's very suspicious that Maren would know what.

[Hannah]

The Irrets call it Harvest, or that she knows this. Like maybe she doesn't know that they call it that, but like it's suspicious that wherever they're getting that from is probably the same source. And why would that be?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, I guess I always just took it as that's like what the flyers call their own version of threshing.

[Hannah]

I don't think it is. I think I checked to see, and I don't think it is. They call it something else way back.

[Kinsey]

In Chapter nine and Darna was complaining about her harness and told Taryn she's not wearing it when they find her family. But Andarna was wearing her harness in chapter 41 when she spreads her wings and explains to the other ears that she can still fly. She looks down at her harness.

[Hannah]

Poor baby. Yeah. We did also get some foreshadowing for Leathan being Andara's kin. Violet thinks, quote, the swirl pattern in his horns reminds me of Andarna's. Maybe they're from the same den. So this observation was, of course, setting up for Leathan coming to get in Darna later in the book, because she is his kin.

[Kinsey]

I think that the Aerates have been watching her for a long time, but it is notable to mention that when they crossed over the magical barrier and Zelnya, she did feel that prickling sensation. And this does happen again later in chapter 51, when they're battling the Venin in Orisha, and Leathan later shows up to raise the war.

[Hannah]

So you think that they were, like, invisible and that's what she's sensing there?

[Kinsey]

Yeah. So definitely there by Zelnya. Potentially there a little bit earlier, though it is a little hard to say, since she was definitely sensing Venon in those other instances.

[Hannah]

She seems to sort of, like, relate it to when she's around magic.

[Carly]

I think it would make sense that she could, like, sense them.

[Hannah]

Well, you guys know that. I love that theory. What am I gonna say? Energy field. All right. And for chapter 43, the IRIDs had just left, and Riddick had just found out that Zaden's Venon. When Mira returns. Everything all right? Mira's brow furrows when no one answers, and her gaze flickers between the four of us before settling on me with an intense once over that ends with her studying my eyes. Violet. That's what she says. This seems to be yet another moment where Mira suspects that Violet is Venin, which connects with what her grandmother has just told her, which we'll be getting to very soon next Easter egg. It's more of a notable moment that Violet says that going to Loisum, the last major isle, would be pointless because it has guards but no army. We can establish a diplomatic tie, but they won't help us win a war. And I just find this odd. Notable might be the better word for it, because why is she not wanting to see if they have a cure? Like, she was kind of advocating for staying in Hidadus, even though. And Darna was like, my kind's definitely not here. Before they saw Zaden's mom. Though at the same time, they kind of knew they had an army. So I guess it does come back to that. But it's like, why not just go see? And then again, they were just told that there wasn't a cure. But still, it's suspicious, right?

[Carly]

Yes. The theme of the whole book is very suspicious. That could be its tagline. I want to point out this conversation between Riddick and Violet. Riddick says, bonded to one of the most vicious dragons on the continent. That's awesome. And Violet responds, he doesn't control Sigale. Oh, I think this wording is important. It is heavily implied that Jack could control Bade, and he is an Asym. Also heavily implied that Varish could control Solas. A lot of people believe he was Venon. That was never confirmed. Zaden is an Asyn by the end of Onyx Storm. So I think this is foreshadowing that he can control her if he wants to. I don't like it. Sorry.

[Hannah]

All right, so I'm once again plugging our future bonus episode for gemstones and what is sure to turn into metals and stuff. But I am going to go ahead and let you guys know. I'm waiting for the end of our deep dive to make sure I'm not missing any of these, because we got this mention of agate, and it is used as a sound shield here. So, of course you guys know I looked it up, and agate is frequently used in the creation of wind chimes, particularly for their visual appeal and the subtle, soothing sounds they produce. Oh, could this be an example of me, like, really, like, plugging into Google and getting what I want? Maybe cherry picking, but I'm letting you guys know that that might be the case here.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, so instead of hearing conversations, everyone just hears lovely wind chimes instead. When Riddick is panicking that Zaden is Venon, he says, quote, he could tear our kingdom, our province, apart from within. He could deliver us to the Venin on a silver platter. Barlow was nothing. We have a dark wielder sitting in the scenarium. I think this is foreshadowing that Zaden can literally do just that and that there might already be another Venon sitting in this scenarium, because this seemed to be a really big concern of Riddick's.

[Hannah]

You know, that wouldn't surprise me. So for chapter 44, I would like to point out that all of the Sineva battle brief convo, which is like the last chapter that we really didn't discuss, it showed us that Panchak is the one who leaked the info about the six crates of alloy daggers leading to the death of the Queen and 25,000 people. Which begs the question of why Panchik would be doing this if he's not Venon, but we'll discuss that in episode 18. Woohoo.

[Kinsey]

I can't imagine they could drain much from daggers. So I think that this was foreshadowing. The Venon could be altering the weapon to make their own. Basically, I think the Venin stole these daggers to make the dragon killing weapon. And maybe they needed a source freshly imbued with dragon magic in order to target dragons specifically and reverse the dragon's power.

[Hannah]

Oh, shit.

[Kinsey]

Why else would they want all of these daggers?

[Hannah]

I mean, I think my first thoughts with it, I like your theory, is that taking the alloy daggers disrupts wards because those are used to maintain them. Right. So that would be beneficial to intercept them, but also. Exactly that. Intercepting them from being dispersed out so that fliers and also whatever riders are there could then use them against Venin. So it was like a preventative attack.

[Kinsey]

Preventative attack killing 25,000 people?

[Hannah]

I mean, I didn't say it wasn't extreme, but like, these are ben. You know? But yeah, I think it was a strategic move to protect themselves. Yeah, and also kill the queen.

[Kinsey]

All I know is it's a huge shipment and they didn't have these like, dragon killing daggers until this book, so.

[Hannah]

It was a good catch.

[Carly]

And finally, let's talk theories. Time for your signet sparring professors to help you hone your farsight and precognition signets.

[Hannah]

So I kind of spoiled this one earlier. I forgot that this is the episode we were going to talk about. I think that Dane knows, or at least has suspected, that Zaden is Venin. I almost mentioned it a couple episodes ago when Violet noted him as glancing at her and Zaden in like, a really suspicious way. But this one is even more clear. So Violet thinks, quote, by the time we launch for the continent, Mira's asked me at least a dozen times if I'm all right. And though Dane has the annoying habit of continuously measuring how far Zaden and I sit apart with his eyes before meeting my gaze, he smartly keeps his mouth shut. Just a few pages before this, Riddick and Violet agreed that Dane was not at the level of rule breaking to be informed of Zaden's condition. But I think that Dane has known and that that is actually part of his character arc for finally respecting and trusting Violet's decisions. Which could be really interesting for book four. Though I will clarify that I do not think that this is evidence for him being the brother, as he is accounted for by Zaden during his Shadow Storm at the end. I just think it could be interesting to see the dynamic of Violet finding out that Daen knew. It could be really cool. Personally, I think next, the Irid's magic reveals that Zaden is Venon. And I think that Andarna will learn how to bend magic to reveal Venon and that she will become a sort of dragon sized pregnancy test for Venon when she'll be able to, like, unmask and detect them. This could be part of what Andarna was or will be able to learn from the Irids, like when she unbonds and goes off and does whatever she does. Also being able to adding on an addendum here, being able to detect rider's sickness, because that was also something the Irides were able to do here, here.

[Kinsey]

That could also be very beneficial when battling the Venin and knowing which ones contain signets and what they are.

[Hannah]

Oh, because if they can see the dragon signets or. Yeah, the Dragon Rider signets, then maybe they can tell what the Venin signets are.

[Kinsey]

It would be such a beneficial.

[Hannah]

No, but Andarna could just be how we revealed who had second signets. Like, she would be a gold mine of a resource.

[Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Hannah]

She could just, like, put Advenon in front of, like, put every squad, meet every professor, like, everybody around Violet. Before you enter Ryerson House, you gotta go through Aunt Darna.

[Kinsey]

You know, Andarna be like, bodhi's lying. He does have a second signet.

[Hannah]

And she'd be like, I'll tell you exactly what it is too. And she'd have a tee. Like, she'd be like the surreal of the Jurassic.

[Kinsey]

I was just thinking that. Surreal 2.0.

[Carly]

I get to see her and Taryn gossiping.

[Hannah]

I could totally see it. And Aatrim.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

They're like, no wonder they don't tell people they have that second signet. That's so embarrassing and so useless.

[Hannah]

So weak.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Ew. All right. I think it was a mistake. They skipped Loisom. Violet believes there's no point in flying there because they have, quote, guards but no army. But if we think back to Devarelli, that was the exact same case Quest Squad went in there thinking Devarelli only had guards, but they were essentially an army. I think they could have still found use out of Loisom and that this will bite them in the ass later.

[Carly]

Yeah, agree.

[Hannah]

I know there are way more context clues for Mira and Drake becoming a thing, and I'm so down for that. But I'm also not ready to let go of my Mira and Serena theory. I think I've said that the last couple episodes, but you get it again. Because as General Aetos is telling Chat that she is one step closer to the throne. Kat, as asks Serena and Violet thinks I spot Mira White knuckling the strap of her rucksack.

[Carly]

I'm still holding that hope for you.

[Kinsey]

This theory being true, they're not beating the allegations.

[Hannah]

They're not. They're not. And I am here for it.

[Kinsey]

Yes.

[Carly]

And finally, I want to go back to the conversation with the Irides one more time, where we get this quote from Indarna where she says, will you not at least tell us how the Dark wielders were defeated in the Great War? And one of them responds, apparently they weren't. If you're here asking, and I have previously theorized that I don't think the Venom were ever truly defeated because in the timeline, we find out that one AU one year after unification in the Great War is the first recorded Griffin attack on an outpost. And typically they were attacking the outpost to get weapons because they needed them to fight the Venom. If they're doing this one year after unification, I think it's because of Venon. We're never really gone.

[Hannah]

I accept.

[Kinsey]

Me too.

[Hannah]

I don't know why that line was so mind blowing to me, but for some reason I just. Like, there was never a point to me that there was zero Venin, but I just didn't consider that it was infestation versus just hiding. I don't know. So then that just begs the question of what is this weapon that supposedly killed them all if they weren't actually defeated? Is there that weapon or.

[Kinsey]

They're all cooked.

[Hannah]

They killed a lot of them. But then that just goes back to. Is it not just Andarna? Are we just circling around the obvious here?

[Carly]

Or is dragons continuing to bond, Riders just continuing to create more Venom?

[Hannah]

But then that not to derail again. But the thing that I struggle with, with that is like humans to become Venon, have to have like such an intense desire for power that they're willing to corrupt themselves for it or to escape whatever emotions that they, you know. That's another thing we learned that draws venom to turning. If it's up to the individual, then like an imbalance in magic where dragons are bonding to more riders. How does that somehow make more Venin? Like, is it just more people are being born with this intense desire for power, and at that point it's no longer the fault of the person that.

[Carly]

Is like, I understand what you're saying. I don't think it's like a direct thing where it's like, oh, we made another dragon rider, another Venon's born. Like, I don't, I don't think it works that way. But I think what you're doing is you're creating a system in which people with magic and access to magical power are being elevated in your society and there's more and more of them and you're growing this army and they are seen and viewed as the people in power, the people in charge.

[Hannah]

So it's like a jealousy and like a want for that. But dragons aren't willing to bond them, so they only have the other alternatives to turn.

[Carly]

We also have the people in Poro Emile who are just trying to survive. And you know, so it's easy to say, like most people just turn inventing for bad reasons, but a lot of them are probably turning to survive because we see that in signet sparring, when somebody turns in an instant to protect themselves from a fire wielder because car is not properly managed signet sparring. And in that moment they pull to survive. And I have a feeling that's happening a lot in poor Emile.

[Hannah]

You know, Rebecca did tell us in Denver that she does not equate Venn to being evil. There are characters who are evil in our series that are not Vennon. And that's, that's an important distinction that she's like set out to make. So I actually really like that perspective.

[Carly]

Yeah, I think a lot of this is about survival, unfortunately.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

And that wraps up our Deep Dive episode of Onyx Storm, chapters 41 through 44. Thank you so much for listening. Before we go, we want to give a special shout out to our newest Feathertail Patreon members, Angie A. Lindsay and Kira G. Thank you all for supporting the podcast and helping us continue to create high quality content. If you'd like to hear your name in a future episode, you can join our Feather Tales tier three and we'll make sure to shout you out in our next recorded episode as a Feathertail.

[Hannah]

You'll also get exclusive ad free full video episodes with the option of audio only, early access to our regular season episodes and PDF resources, including Carly's weekly Onyx Storm annotations and more. If you'd like to join but would prefer to keep your name private, just let us know. You can check out our Patreon linked down in the show notes to see all of the perks across all three of our tiers. We do have a base tier for general support donations. Please note that Apple now charges a 30% fee for Patreon memberships on iOS devices, so we highly recommend using a web browser or desktop to become a member so that you aren't charged that fee. And if Patreon isn't for you, there are still plenty of ways to support us. Leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify subscribing, recommending us to your fellow Empyrean readers and simply tuning into each episode goes so far far.

[Carly]

Thank you again for listening. Don't forget to join us for our next episode and where we deep dive chapters 45 through 47. If you haven't already, check out our first season chapter by chapter's deep dive on fourth wing through the Lens of Iron Flame. There are over 30 hours of binge worthy content to explore where we pick up all the things that Iron Flame changed about Fourth Wing, including all the times Zaden used his intrinsic abilities.

[Kinsey]

As always, we encourage you to email us all of your thoughts, theories and suggestions. Feel free to DM us on Instagram or join us over on our free Discord Group Channel chat. If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. It would mean the world to us.

[Hannah]

Until next time. Dearest fantasy readers, prepare yourselves for a new Shadow Daddy as we continue our journey through the Imperium series. That one might be a little unhinged.

[Kinsey]

I don't want to call him Daddy.

[Hannah]

But cuz it's like he's like a shadow baby.

[Carly]

A shadow shadow baby.

[Hannah]

It feels inappropriate even though he's like.

[Kinsey]

The same age as like literally Auric and we're like Auric can get it Daddy. Shadow Daddy.

[Hannah]

Too bad Auric can't have a second sickness. He would make a fine we don't know that he can't.

[Kinsey]

What if his brother did bond at threshing? Then Zaden unalives him and then Auric bonded to his brother's dragon second.

[Hannah]

I'm so glad I didn't cut recording.

[Carly]

I mean Molevic also could have just been bonded to a more slightly more distant family member.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I've definitely thought about this since Night and Flame.

[Hannah]

We do know that there's been a king before that has been a rider. It's been like Violet was like that's not exactly true.

[Carly]

Well, but it doesn't also have to be a king. It could have been like a Duke or.

[Hannah]

Yeah, but I'm just saying that that right there could be an Eastern for that. Oh, we thought this episode was over.

[Carly]

We were wrong at that point though it'd be so far removed, I think it would probably just make his signet stronger, right? I don't know.

[Kinsey]

Who knows?

[Carly]

Who knows?

[Kinsey]

Hopefully y' all sticked around for the outro because we just dropped some more on you.

[Hannah]

All right.

[Carly]

It never stops. Bye.

[D]

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