Ep. 18 Onyx Storm Deep Dive: Ch. 63-66 | Easter Eggs, Theories & Key Moments

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dear Fantasy Reader - Ep. 18 Onyx Storm Deep Dive: Ch. 63-66 | Easter Eggs, Theories & Key Moments

Release Date: June 26, 2025

Welcome to Episode 18 of Dear Fantasy Reader, your ultimate deep dive book club for Rebecca Yarros' beloved Empyrean series. In this final chapter breakdown of Season 3's Onyx Storm Deep Dive, hosts Hannah, Kinsey, and Karly navigate the tumultuous events of chapters 63 through 66, unraveling intricate plot twists, emotional character arcs, and tantalizing theories that set the stage for the upcoming installments.

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1. Listener Feedback and Community Love

The episode opens with the trio sharing a heartfelt review from listener Katie Yu, applauding the podcast for its insightful analysis and the sense of community it fosters. Karly enthuses, “Dear Fantasy Reader is truly the kind of pod that fangirls then makes their own fangirls.” The hosts express their gratitude, highlighting the importance of listener support and encouraging others to leave reviews, especially those outside the US, which Hannah notes are not automatically visible.

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2. Plot Breakdown: Chapters 63-66

Kinsey spearheads the detailed summary of the pivotal chapters:

• Chapter 63: Imogen faces a devastating loss as Quinn is stabbed by a Venon and dies in her arms (10:01). The battle intensifies with Professor Trissa weaving wards and Felix imbuing daggers, while Zaden remains conspicuously absent.

• Chapter 64: Violet and Taryn are ambushed and trapped by Theophany, leading to Violet discovering a cryptic package containing a stone dagger and ominous instructions (10:01). Violet confronts Theophany, culminating in a fierce battle where she kills her foe with an ancient artifact.

• Chapter 65: Zaden's perspective reveals Berwyn as a traitor aiding the Venon. In a desperate surge of power, Zaden channels an Onyx Storm of Shadows, leading to widespread devastation and the loss of his soul’s fragments. A cryptic conversation hints at deep-seated promises and plans involving Taryn.

• Chapter 66: The aftermath sees Violet awakening with missing companions, stolen dragon eggs, and a mysterious declaration of marriage to Zaden. Imogen reveals she has erased Violet's memories, fulfilling a critical plot twist that sets up future conflicts (14:08).

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3. Emotional Reactions and Character Discussions

The hosts delve into their emotional responses to the intense developments:

• Quinn's Death: Kinsey shares how unexpectedly tragic and emotionally wrenching Quinn’s demise was from Imogen’s perspective, even more so than Liam’s earlier death (15:19). Carly echoes this sentiment, highlighting the beautifully written portrayal of platonic love.

• Zaden’s Transformation: Hannah expresses her sorrow over Zaden’s complete turn to Venon, noting her emotional investment despite previous misgivings (17:22). The discussion explores the implications of his transformation and the hope for a possible redemption arc.

• Memory Wipe and Marriage Twist: The revelation that Imogen has erased Violet’s memories and the sudden declaration of marriage to Zaden leave Hannah conflicted, appreciating the plot twist but mourning the loss of established relationships (25:08).

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4. Theories and Speculations: The Missing Brother

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to theorizing the identity of the missing "brother," a pivotal character whose fate influences the overarching narrative. The hosts weigh evidence pointing towards Garak and Bodhi as the most likely candidates:

• Garak's Evidence: Kinsey presents compelling evidence from Garak’s actions and state of exhaustion, suggesting his transformation into Venon (116:19). Hannah remains torn, citing logistical inconsistencies regarding his dragon’s condition.

• Bodhi's Evidence: Discussions highlight Bodhi’s unwavering loyalty and recent distress signals, although contradictions about his dragon’s state pose challenges (117:23).

• Alternative Theories: Arryk and Auric are considered, with Kinsey noting Arryk’s precognitive abilities and Auric’s potential undercover role. However, logistical hurdles and the lack of concrete evidence make these theories less convincing.

Ultimately, both Karly and Kinsey lean towards Garak being the missing brother, supported by direct hints from the narrative and Rebecca Yarros’ interviews. Hannah, while initially considering Garrick, aligns with her co-hosts, though she remains cautious about the complexities involved.

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5. Favorite Moments and Quotes

The hosts share their favorite moments and standout quotes from the chapters:

• Hannah: Highlights the emotional climax where Zaden clings to his love for Violet amidst his Onyx Storm, capturing a poignant moment of his internal struggle (82:39).

• Kinsey: Appreciates the humor in Gawain recounting kills, drawing parallels to Lord of the Rings (82:50), and admires Dane’s selfless actions, hoping for his redemption.

• Carly: Celebrates the epic cliffhanger ending and the powerful lines that encapsulate the book’s emotional weight, such as, “You have been the gift of my life” (83:30).

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6. Epigraph Analysis: Unraveling Clues

Delving into the epigraphs for chapters 63-66, the hosts decode hidden messages and foreshadowing:

• Chapter 63: "Fuck you. My daughter and I will meet Malik with clean consciences. Will you and your daughters be able to say the same when they come for you?" suggests deep familial conflicts and impending confrontations with Lilith Sorringale.

• Chapter 64: "A gift from one servant of Dune to another..." hints at Violet’s use of ancient artifacts and her rekindled relationship with the deity Dune, raising questions about her true allegiance and the nature of her second signet.

• Chapter 65: "The only thing more unpredictable than the volatile province that is Tirandor is her due Duke..." underscores the political instability and personal turmoil surrounding Zaden’s role as Duke and his transformation.

• Chapter 66: "While cadets are strongly encouraged not to form romantic attachments while studying in the quadrant, lieutenants are permitted to marry whomever they choose upon graduation..." foreshadows the abrupt and controversial marriage between Violet and Zaden.

The analysis reveals how these epigraphs serve as narrative anchors, providing subtle hints about character motivations and upcoming plot twists.

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7. Final Thoughts and Future Episodes

As the episode concludes, the hosts reflect on the intense journey through Onyx Storm and express excitement for future content:

• Season Wrap-Up: Recognizing the emotional weight of concluding the Onyx Storm breakdown, Hannah shares her emotional connection to the podcast's creation and the supportive community it has built.

• Upcoming Content: Enthusiastically, the hosts hint at exclusive author interviews with Parker Lennox and Bri Greenwich, offering sneak peeks into upcoming series and releases. They also tease future deep dives and preparatory speculation for the next Empyrean installment.

• Community Engagement: Listeners are encouraged to join the podcast’s Patreon for access to ad-free episodes, early releases, and exclusive content, as well as to participate in their free Discord chat for ongoing discussions and fangirling sessions.

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Key Takeaways:

• Emotional Climax: The death of Quinn and Zaden’s irreversible transformation mark critical turning points in the narrative, deeply affecting character dynamics and future plot trajectories.

• Mystery of the Missing Brother: The identity of the missing brother remains a central mystery, with Garak and Bodhi leading the speculated candidates based on in-game evidence and character motivations.

• Complex Magic System: The intricacies of the signet and bond systems continue to play a crucial role, presenting both challenges and opportunities for character development and future conflicts.

• Foreshadowing and Easter Eggs: Rebecca Yarros masterfully embeds clues within epigraphs and character interactions, enriching the storytelling and inviting fans to engage in deep analysis and theory crafting.

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah at [10:01]: “We are finally at the epic conclusion of our final battle.”

• Kinsey at [16:15]: “It was painful. I felt very indifferent towards Quinn.”

• Carly at [83:37]: “What you asked me to. It is such a badass way to end that book.”

• Kinsey at [116:19]: “Which is why he hangs his head as he stands and says I can't, then sighs and goes out the door.”

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Conclusion:

Episode 18 of Dear Fantasy Reader offers a comprehensive and emotionally charged analysis of the concluding chapters of Onyx Storm. Through meticulous breakdowns, heartfelt reactions, and compelling theories, the hosts provide listeners with a thorough understanding of the plot's complexities and the emotional depths of its characters. As they wrap up this season, the anticipation builds for the next phase of the Empyrean series, promising more engaging content and community-driven discussions.

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Connect with Dear Fantasy Reader:

• Patreon: Access ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more (Patreon Link).
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• Reviews: Leave a review to support the podcast and help it grow.

Subscribe now and continue your journey through the magical realms of the Empyrean series with your favorite Quest Squadmates!

Transcript

[Hannah]

Dearest Fantasy readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader podcast, where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey.

[Carly]

And I'm Carly.

[Hannah]

Join us as we take flight into the world of the Empyrean series, diving deep into Onyx Storm, breaking down characters, scenes, foreshadowing and lore, fangirling over shadow daddies, building theories as we go, and more.

[Carly]

With that content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everything Empyrean series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarrows has given us. So if you haven't read 4th Wing, Iron Flame and Onyx Storm in its entirety, go do that and we will be here waiting when you are done.

[Kinsey]

Also, due to the nature of these books, this podcast is rated R in content and language.

[Hannah]

As Rebecca Yarros says, readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please take note and prepare to face the storm. We have dragons to ride. Oh, it's the last time we're saying that for a while. Oh, we have officially made it to the final Onyx Storm chapter breakdown episode. We know a lot of you have been wondering what book we're covering next, and we'll be announcing all of the juicy details in our upcoming what's Next for Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast episode, so keep an eye out for that one right after this one drops. We're also beyond excited to share that we've got some incredible author interviews coming your way, including an exclusive with Parker Lennox and Bri Greenwich, authors of Riftborne and Duskbound. They'll be revealing for the very first time the title, release date and cover for the third Espritian book in that episode, which is insanely surreal and I absolutely cannot wait.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it's going to be such a good interview.

[Hannah]

You guys think that you've seen me fangirl before. You just wait. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.

[Carly]

Hannah might fangirl too Close to the sun, so I might.

[Hannah]

I might. Duskbound is tied for my favorite book of all time, so you best believe I have been waiting patiently and eagerly for book three, and I cannot believe that we get to help deliver this news. That is absolutely insane.

[Carly]

I can't wait.

[Hannah]

Anyways, time for our lightning round of current reads. Basically just like what we've read and are reading since the last episode. I read Stuck with youh, which is officially my favorite Ali Hazelwood novella. It was adorable. I also read two An Ancient Witch's Guide to Modern Dating by Cecelia Edward, which was A cute, cozy fantasy and coffee shop in an alternative universe by CB Lee, which is a cute, sapphic YA fantasy romance. And I'm currently reading an arc of A Forbidden alchemy by Stacey McEwan and rereading Spark of the Everflame by Pen Kole.

[Kinsey]

Ooh. I finished Shatter Me by Tahida Mafi and Love Theoretically by Ali Hazelwood. Libby decided to give me a bunch of holds at once, so I'm currently reading not in Under One Roof and Stuck with youh by Ali Hazelwood.

[Hannah]

All at once.

[Kinsey]

Well, two of them are novellas, and one of them's like a real book, so.

[Hannah]

A real book. Novellas are a longer book, one of.

[Kinsey]

Them'S a longer book, two are novellas. I'm already, like, 75% through one novella. It's like, I'll be done in, like, 40 minutes.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Can you tell we're big Ali Hazelwood fans?

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I am so jealous that both of you got stuck with you before me. I requested that book back in April from my library. I am still waiting. Okay.

[Hannah]

It's so cute. It is so good. I know.

[Carly]

You know what?

[Kinsey]

I did offer to FaceTime you so that we could listen to it together, but you were busy.

[Carly]

I was. You're a real book friend. You really are, and I really appreciated that. But I did promise Hannah I would read Spark of the Everflame with her, so I'm dedicated. I am reading that currently. That is my current read. And I finished Caught up by Nevesa Allen, which was delicious. And I also just finished Blood of Hercules by Jasmine Mass, which, if y' all don't know the lore behind this, if you haven't heard on this podcast, my husband saw this book at a Costco, didn't know what it was about, asked me if I knew anything about it. I didn't. I read the back cover. I was like, oh, this has a lot of Greek mythology in it. Sounds like Percy Jackson. Right up your alley. Turns out a dark fantasy romance. That is why Choose. My husband is currently reading this book and he has no idea what he is in for.

[Hannah]

I can also attest that while on FaceTime, her husband came in the room talking about, can I talk to you about this book? It's so good.

[Kinsey]

I love the characters.

[Carly]

Yeah, he is loving it, but he still has no idea yet that it's y choose. I think he still thinks this is like a love triangle situation.

[Kinsey]

Isn't he like over 50% through the book at this point?

[Carly]

Yes. He's innocent little soul so he's never read a white Shus. I don't even think he understands the genre so I am waiting for him to figure it out and I can't.

[Hannah]

Wait for the reaction.

[Carly]

I will.

[Hannah]

You've got to catch it on video.

[Carly]

I'm going to try so hard to catch it on video.

[Kinsey]

I love that journey for him and us.

[Hannah]

It's very entertaining.

[Carly]

If I manage to get it, I will post the reaction to the pod. So follow along for updates on my husband learning that why choose is a.

[Hannah]

Genre.

[Kinsey]

And he thinks it's Percy Jackson, which is the opposite of what a.

[Hannah]

Cartoon is that I compared it to.

[Carly]

Percy Jackson, which is it not just Wyatt.

[Hannah]

It's middle grade.

[Kinsey]

It's middle grade fantasy, so mistakes were.

[Carly]

Made, but it's a happy accident and.

[Hannah]

I'm rolling with it.

[Kinsey]

Aw.

[Carly]

All right. This week's Star of Navarre Award for a review that made our heart soar goes to Katie Yu, who wrote Listening to Dear Fantasy Reader is the highlight of my day. The hosts are the kind of book besties that I wished lived in the same city as me. They are the flesh, an idea out and blow your mind With a unique insight team. They are the kindest, most down to earth and thoughtful fangirls I've ever met. Recovering from a crazy cliffhanger. The pod always has me covered and the kind of emotional support reading content that I need. Dear Fantasy Reader is truly the kind of pod that fangirls then makes their own fangirls. Not to mention the fact that Hannah, Carly and Kinsey are each FBI level.

[Hannah]

Book sleuths in their own right.

[Carly]

They never leave any tiny detail unturned and are queens at finding potential Easter eggs in series. From one fangirl to another Dear Fantasy Reader is an absolute must. Listen.

[Hannah]

Oh my gosh.

[Kinsey]

What was that review?

[Carly]

I don't know that I can even handle someone being that nice to me.

[Hannah]

I feel like I'm bl. I am that fangirls then makes their own fangirls. Can we put that on a shirt or something? That is perfection. Oh my gosh. Aw.

[Carly]

This is so sweet. Thank you so much, Katie. You, your feedback and support means so much to us. If you're also enjoying the show, please consider leaving us a review. It's a small thing that makes a big difference.

[Hannah]

That kind of feedback first of all just blows my mind. But also, this is our 18th episode of Onyx Storm and we did how many for Onyx Storm Prep. Like so much goes into this and this right here is exactly why we do this. I don't know how I'm, like, gonna get emotional talking about it, but this. This is why, like, I wanted to make the podcast, right? Like, oh, yeah, stop. I'm literally gonna get emotional.

[Carly]

Okay, 100%.

[Hannah]

I love you, Katie.

[Carly]

Yeah, we love you, Katie. We're so. We're so glad that you're here listening and part of the community. And I just feel like it's so true that they say it's so much harder making friends as an adult than it is when you're younger. And for me, the book pod, bookstagram, the book community as a whole, is a place where I found some of my best friends, including you, Hannah, and Kenzie. Finding you guys was. It was so serendipitous, and we're all so grateful that we have each other and the community we've built. So join in. We love being friends with other book besties. That's our favorite thing.

[Hannah]

And I also want to say just one note on this review section that I learned yesterday that we can only see reviews that are posted in the US we cannot see reviews that are posted outside of the United States.

[Carly]

Are you serious?

[Hannah]

Yeah. I did not know that until one of our listeners, Mary, sent me theirs, and I was like, I've never seen that before. And so if you are a listener who has posted a review and you're wondering how come I didn't make the Star of Navarre, it's likely because we didn't see a review. So feel free if you would like. No pressure at all. But if you do leave a review outside of the United States, feel free to send us a Screenshot to our DMs, email it to us like, we want to see it. We want to. Thank you. So I just had to add that in there.

[Carly]

That makes me so sad because I have so many people reach out to me from the UK and Australia specifically, like. And I did not know that, so. Wow, that really stinks.

[Hannah]

And for our regular scheduled programming, as a reminder before we dive in, if you would like to jump around to any section of our episode, you can find the timestamps for each down in our show notes. First objective, breaking into the archives vault for a summary report of chapters 63 through 66 with our squad mate, Kinsey.

[Kinsey]

We are finally at the epic conclusion of our final battle. Starting off in Imogen's point of view, she's battling Wyvern with Bodhi Garruk and Dain. Zaden is nowhere in sight, and the Venon are trying to sabotage their plans to raise the wards, which means Quinn is in danger. Imogen leaves with Dain to save Quinn, and on the way, Imogen reveals her secret second signet. She is a stone wielder. Unfortunately, Imogen arrives too late. Quinn is stabbed by a Venon and dies in Imogen's arms. The battle intensifies around them as Garruk arrives and distance wields them away. Garruk is now too weak to walk again. Bodhi is retching on the ground. Professor Trissa is attempting to weave the wards while Felix imbues daggers and Imogen thinks they need to disarm all riders to collect more alloy for the wards or they won't survive. Back in Violet's point of view, she and Taryn are led to Theophany's location by one of her tornadoes. Suddenly, Sigale screams down the bond, causing Taryn to panic. While they're distracted, Theophany traps Taryn and Violet in a net, sending them crashing into the forest below. As Violet disentangles herself, she finally opens the package that Auric had sent earlier, finding an ominous note that warns only those touched by the gods should wield their wrath, a stone dagger from Dune's temple and instructions to strike in the dark. Violet nears Burnout. As she fights Theophany, she feels fear consume her bond with Zaden and realizes he's about to fully channel as Venon. Violet tries to stop him, but she's blocked by his icy onyx shields. A wave of shadows consumes the land, taking out Wyvern in its wake. Violet infiltrates Zayden's shields just enough to tell him she loves him, but it's too late. In the midst of darkness, Violet recalls Auryx note in Stone Dagger and realizes that he must have manifested a true precognition. Signet and Darna appears, distracting Theophany long enough for Violet to stab and kill her. RIP Theophany. Now we are in Zaden's point of view. While Violet battled against Theophany, Zaden was summoned by his sage, Berwyn. Sigail is injured and trapped in a net, and Zaden is enraged and nearing burnout. He has a new Venon brother and he can't believe this unnamed character willingly turned Venon after watching Zaden struggle over the past five months. The fun doesn't end there. Zaden discovers that Panchak is a traitor who's been helping the Venin, but karma's a bitch because Panchik's play stupid games, win stupid prizes, Award is Berwin stabbing and desiccating his dragon because apparently they have weapons that can do that now. Berwyn turns his attention to Sigale, which is Zedan's last straw. They will not kill her. Zaden channels magic from the Earth, fully cementing his fate as Venon and supercharging his abilities. He sends out an Onyx Storm of Shadows, knocking out Berwyn, blacking out the city and killing the wyvern that target Violet's loved ones, notably Imogen and Dain, in exchange for the power he pulled from the Earth. Zayan loses all but a fragment of his soul as Violet finally breaks through his shields and tells Zaden that she loves him. Clinging onto her words, he manages to hold onto his love for Violet as the rest of his soul dies fully. Asym Zaden has a cryptic conversation with Sigail that includes mention of a favor that is owed, a promise Violet made to him, and how he and Sigail need to convince Taryn of their plan. We are thrust back into Violet's point of view with the final chapter. She wakes up disoriented outside of Ryerson House with Im and Andarna by her side. Brennan rushes out to her, revealing several things the wards extended to Dreythis Violet has been missing for 12 hours, Zaden and Garak are missing alongside two other riders. Six dragon eggs have been stolen, four riders and their dragons were killed, and three elder dragons were killed. Violet finds an emerald ring on her finger, an official declaration of marriage to Zaden from the Oracian Temple of Dune, and and a note from Zaden that reads don't look for me, it's yours. Now she realizes that Imogen wiped the last 12 hours of her memories and when she confronts her, Imogen reveals that she only did what Violet asked her to. Acknowledgments.

[Hannah]

Okay, grab your letters Quest Squad as we are officially diving into our very last Onyx Storm Chapters episode. Just a preface that if you have not already listened to our first two episodes of this full season, our initial reactions and our explaining the final chapters. We cover a lot of our opinions, thoughts and intents emotions over the final ending scenes. Like so much of the stuff that we would typically go more in depth in this episode in is already there. We'll repeat some things but for the most part we're going to recommend you go listen to those to get the full picture of all of our opinions and we are going to repeat a couple of them though and the first one is going to be Quinn's death. I do want you guys to refresh us on what your initial reaction was to Quinn's death first, though, I do have to point out that on a reread, we should have known Quinn was not going to make it. The moment that Imogen thought. Both of the Venon are headed for the turret, where the only person I truly love on this battlefield is working straight to the heart.

[Carly]

Yeah. So you just want to start off with trauma.

[Hannah]

Great trauma. Yeah. That's what this whole last couple chapters is.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it was painful. I felt very indifferent towards Quinn. I didn't love her. I didn't hate her. She was just there. But reading her death from Imogen's point of view absolutely destroyed me. And it took me by complete surprise. I'm gonna be so for real right now. I actually cried more for Quinn than Liam. Like, I was sobbing, which is crazy because, like, I care so much more for Liam than Quinn. But, like, I don't know what it was. Just the way that it was written and the flashbacks, it just. It affected me so much that my friend and I actually cosplayed as Imogen and Quinn, and we filmed a little, like, friendship montage before the. We made it a good one. And I was crying as I was editing the video. It was so sad.

[Carly]

I was also surprised by how much Quint's death affected me, and I definitely am with Kenzie, where I don't think it would have hit me as hard if it would have been from anyone else's perspective other than Imogen. It was heartbreaking and heart wrenching, but it was also really beautifully written. And I also think it was just such an amazing depiction of platonic, almost sisterly like, love. And we don't. We haven't gotten a lot of that in this series. And I just thought it was. While it ripped my heart out, I also thought it was really beautifully written, and I had a lot of respect for that.

[Hannah]

I agree full heartedly with both of you, except I definitely cried harder for Liam. But I do love how Rebecca is able to give us those one liners that just rip your heart out. That was a big takeaway from it, and I'm really glad that we got to see it from Imogen's point of view, because I probably would have been very indifferent about it. I think we even said that in our Onyx Storm prep season, and we're like, quinn can go. It's fine. We don't really care about. And then we ate our words as we read it.

[Carly]

Yeah, that was a mistake.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, well, it wasn't just Being sad for Quinn. We also get Imogen talking about her mother and her sister and how they're going to watch after her. And I was just like, I cannot. I just can't do this right now. Like, it makes me crash out every time I read the scene. And as if Rebecca didn't want to hurt us enough over Quinn's death, now we also know she already picked out a pretty black dress for her wedding, only a few months away from her graduation. Like, why does she have to do her characters dirty like that? Like, never plan a wedding if you live in a fantasy book. What is that guy's name?

[Hannah]

Dylan's yet? Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Dylan never made it past the parapet. Quinn didn't make it to graduation. You just didn't.

[Hannah]

No. The moment it's brought up, you just know something bad's about to happen if Rebecca Yarros is involved.

[Carly]

Wedding is a four letter word in this series. Like, it's not. It's not good.

[Hannah]

Oh, thanks.

[Carly]

It's a harbinger.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I have trauma.

[Carly]

Yeah, it's Lillian Albatross.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yeah. So we are jumping around quite a bit in this discussion section today, given the context of, like, we've covered a lot of this stuff already, but we are going to jump ahead straight to Zaden's point of view. And this is, like, very detailed. It's a line that stands out to me. Kind of a theorizing question here, you guys, tell me what you make of it. It's when Zaden is doing his whole Onyx Storm thing after he describes saving all the people that Violet loves. He thinks, quote, I stream up the cliffside, fall back at the magic that burns to the touch and surge north. This is one of those things that I highlighted on a first read. And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? And then I reread and reread, and I still don't know what the fuck that means. So what is the magic that burns? Because my first thought was Wards. But as far as we know, they don't, like, technically burn them. I guess we don't really know. We've never been in the POV of someone under the wards as Venin, but we're only really told as of right now that they just can't wield under it. Or at least they're not supposed to be able to wield under it. We also see them get to do that over time. So what else could it be?

[Carly]

I think it is Zawarts. I think it burns because he's currently channeling. So when the magic brushes up against it, it burns him because it's like, nope, not here. And I wonder if that means that if you were to actually, as a Venon, channel within the wards, what would it do? Does it just really hurt you? Is it possible you just have to work through the pain or. Or would it like burn you up? Would it actually really affect you? But I really did think of this as the wards because he was actively channeling. I think that's why he doesn't notice it when he's in there, when he's vented, but not channeling. Also, Kinsey did an insane amount of research on the positioning of everybody. And I think Kinsey.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Carly]

It is where the positioning indicates wards. Right.

[Kinsey]

It makes sense geographically because he's south, the wards would be north of him. So, like when he is going towards the north, he has to pass it at that point. So I think it's the wards too.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

If it's the wards, I just kind of had an epiphany of what that would mean because I always assumed that it just cut them off, that they just were not able to channel until we see them actually do that when the wards are weakening. But if that's the case, do we think, because I'm trying to still figure out what Jack's signet is, do we think that this could be far fetched? So take it with a grain of salt. When he is pushing power into Violet on the mat back and forth wing, Rebecca has confirmed that that was him channeling his Venon. But it's also like we all assumed that was something to do with the signet because at that point we didn't know he was Venom. It could be completely unrelated. But do we think maybe his signet has the ability to inflict pain on someone else that is inflicted on him? That might be a stretch.

[Carly]

Well, I mean, I guess for me then I still don't understand why he's feeling pain. So maybe his stigma has some ability to block pain.

[Hannah]

Well, I'm saying if you're saying that the wards being up and him channeling under them would burn him, then maybe that was actually the feeling that Violet was getting. Was him the same feeling? Yeah. I don't know. Again, I think that might be a stretch. But it's cool to think about because we have so little crumbs for, like, what his signet is. And I would be really intrigued to see how this magic burning would play in. Like, clearly that was an Easter egg for what we're gonna see happen in the Next book. Like if she was giving us context to what happens to Ven. And if they do channel under, because.

[Kinsey]

I take it as they can still channel, it's just they're weaker and they're in pain. But just like Violet, she has to compartmentalize that pain. So it's not impossible they can still do it. They just have to learn how to like block out this burning feeling. Cause he's been wielding under the wards, he's lived under the. He hasn't complained of this issue before.

[Hannah]

So it's gotta be channeling Venin and wielding shadows under the wards.

[Carly]

Well, well, he was channeling from Sigail though. So I think it's just when they channel the Earth magic that it burns.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Cause he was actively channeling from the earth at that moment.

[Carly]

Yeah, but to Hannah, to your point, it's like if he's like Venin channeling some sort of power into Violet and hurting her through some sort of Venon ability, then why was he able to do it without reacting himself? And so it makes me wonder if his signet then is the ability to not feel pain like his signet from his dragon.

[Hannah]

So then doesn't he say some really suspicious stuff about being able to feel the pain in the room at the beginning, in the interrogation room, about her pain?

[Kinsey]

It like sings to him.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I wonder if that is his signet.

[Carly]

So maybe it does have. Cause you had said previously you thought maybe he could sense pain, so maybe it's ability to manipulate pain or something like that. So I think you kind of were on the right track and that it's pain related.

[Kinsey]

It's also interesting because like, Zaden's not physically past the wards. It's just his shadows. So shouldn't Berwyn have technically also been burning when he was dreamwalking into Zaden's nightmare?

[Hannah]

The dream might be different because it seems to be location based.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, but Zaden wasn't in the wards physically. He was south of Dreythis. His shadows were in the wards and it burned him. So if his signet abilities were in the wards, even though he himself wasn't, then shouldn't that also apply for burn?

[Hannah]

Well, he said burn to the touch, so it felt to me like he was being burned to the like. I picture his shadows as tangible things because remember, they can grab things he can feel, he can touch. So I picture it as like a phantom. Maybe that's an inappropriate way to use that. I picture it as like an extension of himself, which technically dreamwalking would Be that. But it's more disconnected to something more like Quinn, maybe where she could project. But if your point was that they have to learn how to do it under the wards, maybe Berwyn has somehow built up some sort of tolerance to that.

[Carly]

Maybe we're going to find out that if it doesn't affect passive Signets. Passive abilities, like, maybe if it's not like, a defensive ability, it's fine.

[Hannah]

This whole last 100 pages is, like, a ton. We're just trying to. We have to be so selective on what we can take time to talk about. And that is. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. What was everyone's reaction to finding out they were married and that Imogen erased Violet's memories? We know how Hannah feels.

[Hannah]

Yeah. If y' all. Again, this is one of those things that. If y' all haven't watched the initial reactions episode, like, I don't want to keep ranting. I was not a fan. I will say, I do love that the twist of Imogen erasing the memories. But I wanted. I'm so emotionally connected to Violet and Zaden's relationship that I wanted to be able to see that I'm distant enough from it now that I'm like, oh, on a reread. Okay. That was, like, a really cool way to end it. And we will get it eventually. But, like, I was not here for the hopeless. And then, like, storyline for the whole book and then ending with, like, a double down if there's no hope. And then having that taken away. That's all I'm gonna. I said I wasn't gonna go into that. That's all I'm saying.

[Carly]

I really liked the ending of the book, personally. Like, I knew we were gonna have a book end with, like, a memory wipe because of the way Rebecca Yarros had answered a question about that previously, where she's like, well, you haven't seen it yet. And I was like, ooh, like, that's.

[Hannah]

Oh, wait, you thought there was going to be an end with the memory wipe?

[Carly]

I. I thought book three or four would end that way. I was like, she's going to end it one of these times where Violet's like, what just happened? And she's had her memory wipe because of the. It was the way Rebecca Garros answered a question in an interview. I was like, oh, I bet you that's how she'll end one of the books. Because she was like, not yet. But I wouldn't say no in the future or something. Something along those lines. I don't have the quote in front of me. And I was like, oh, I bet you she'll end one of them that way. And then she did. And the way it was setting up with Imogen there, I was like, ooh. And I had even, to a certain extent, predicted the last line of the book. By the end of the Imogen chapter, I was like, I bet you this is how it'll end.

[Hannah]

Damn.

[Carly]

And I was very close. And I did the same exact thing. This is a little bit off, but I did the same exact thing with the Gilmore Girls reboot when Amy Sherman Palladino was like, I know exactly what the last words were. And she told people how many it was. I don't want to spoil it for people. I'm like, but I bet it's this. And I was exactly right.

[Hannah]

Damn. Dang. I will say, Kenzie, was it you and I in the Imogen Onyx Storm prep episode where we were like, we're gonna see her signet be utilized in a way bigger way?

[Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Hannah]

And that's how, like, we don't think she's gonna die in book three because we haven't seen a grand payoff that we, like, expect. So I was satisfied by that.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, that was on my bingo card. I have been waiting for this shoe to drop since book one. Like, I. Imogen's my favorite character. And I was posting, like, on bookstagram. Like, I know for a fact that Imogen has already wiped Violet's memories. And everyone was fighting me on it. And they're like, no, she hasn't. No, she hasn't. I'm like, I promise you, like, she's done it before. We're going to see it happen on page. Like, and Violet's going to know and she's going to figure it out. And so I was pleased with that. I was excited and just, like, waiting for this reveal. I was frustrated with Zaden turning because I felt like we kind of left off in the same position as Iron Flame, but the stakes are different. So I'm not as distraught over the cliffhanger because I'm like, well, I survived Iron Flame, and I was definitely way more distraught over that ending than this one. As for the marriage, I've been through it before with other book characters, other series, other authors. So I didn't really care. I don't care if there's an off page wedding. But I was really happy about the Imogen part.

[Hannah]

Couple points. One on the last line and the Imogen part. Pulling from our Rebecca Yaris archives in a Good Morning America ask Me anything. Video clip. Rebecca said, quote, before I start a book, I know its first line and its last line. And that last had been in my head since I wrote the synopsis back for Fourth Wing. So it was really, really satisfying to finally get there and get to get all of those emotions out. End quote. And I'll link that video down in the show notes in case you would like to go watch it. I love how every single one of us, like, in the initial question for this, it wasn't even, what did you, like, how did you react to the Zayden part? We literally said, like, how to react to the marriage and then the memory wipe. Because I do feel like, because it ended so similarly and I said it this whole season, I was so delusional and was still holding out hope that he wasn't going to fully turn. But I think part of that was also that, like, I thought we'd seen that we had. And so, to me, like, it did. It was just kind of frustrating to see him fully turn. And it was just kind of like, oh, my gosh, Like, I don't feel as emotionally invested in this, you know, I love Xaden, but I just feel like I'm glad there were other twists on top of it. And it wasn't just that Zaden turned again.

[Kinsey]

If it was, it would have been pretty boring, probably.

[Carly]

I think for me, I was hoping that, like, Zaden would, like, turn and then go be like a double agent Venon and, like, take them down from the inside. That's kind of what I'm still hoping.

[Hannah]

Which is what I think is happening is gonna happen. Yeah.

[Carly]

Yeah. So I was excited. I was like, okay, hopefully it's gonna go.

[Hannah]

But you thought you were gonna see that in Onyx Storm, is what you're saying.

[Carly]

Well, no, I was just hoping it would go there and I. And when it didn't end with him fully vented in iron flame, I was like, well, I think this is gonna happen. And then he's gonna go, like, take them down from the inside. Which is what I'm hoping for because I think that.

[Hannah]

I thought he did end full. I didn't realize there were stage. I knew there were rank stages, but I just thought that once you were there, like, there was no turning back. So I had already processed him being fully Venon by the time we got to this book. So that's why I was like, wait, I thought we told this story already.

[Carly]

Yeah, I think I saw it as like, a little bit, but I definitely. I don't know I saw it differently, but I get what you're saying. But I also think just. And the last thing I'll say, because I don't know that I really addressed this, but the wedding part, I'm glad we didn't see it, because I think it would have been really depressing given their circumstances. I think it would have been more traumatizing. And I was traumatized enough by this book, so I'm actually glad we didn't get drugged through, like, Violet sobbing through.

[Kinsey]

All of that with her broken arm.

[Carly]

I know. I'm like, she's a mess. I'm like, this whole situation is a mess. I think it would have been really depressing. And whatever it was, it was so bad. She had Imogen wipe her memories. And I'm assuming part of that is because she doesn't want to be able to be, like, interrogated. But, like, I'm like, this could not have been, like, a sweet, beautiful wedding.

[Hannah]

As much as I said that I was upset that it wasn't on page, I fully agree with you on that. I don't think I was upset that it wasn't on page so much that she made it happen in the way that it was because I had picked up on the consort clues throughout. I was expecting book four or five. I was like, this is going to be one of the lighter segments of the book that balances out all this other shit that's hopeless and going on. So to see it utilized in that way, I don't think I wanted it on page. I just didn't want it to happen.

[Carly]

Okay, that's it.

[Hannah]

I think I'm going to get over it when I get to see Violet step into the role as Duchess. I've made my peace with it.

[Carly]

Okay, that's.

[Hannah]

You couldn't tell by my first little spiel, but I have.

[Carly]

All right.

[Kinsey]

I just hope Rebecca hasn't made her peace with killing Imogen. Now that she's fulfilled her purpose, I hope that she continues to live.

[Hannah]

Might be onto something with that. Unfortunately.

[Carly]

I'm also scared for Imogen's fate in this series, but I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed because I love her. And Rebecca has said that Imogen is one of her favorite characters, so finger crossed.

[Hannah]

Rebecca has also said that Imogen still knows a lot more than Violet, so we still get to see, hopefully, some more of her POV to get that information.

[Carly]

I also think she's just kind of a critical character at this point to take. I don't know. I just.

[Hannah]

It's not even Just.

[Carly]

I'm like, don't take her out in book four. I'm like, don't take her out at all.

[Kinsey]

I love her.

[Hannah]

She is. But I could totally see Rebecca getting to a point where she's like, I can't have somebody who's this powerful in this way of, like, if we can just go around wiping everybody's memories, it kind of becomes the, like, are you playing with time travel in a book? Are you making plot holes? Like, why would you not just go time travel and fix this thing? Why would Imogen not just go wipe this thing and fix it? So I could see her just taking that whole issue out, you know, and just. But I hope she doesn't.

[Carly]

Yeah, agreed. All right. Brennan hits Violet with so much information that has come to light in the last 12 hours, including the fact that four riders are missing. We know for sure that one of them is Aiden and one is Garrick. Who are we thinking the other two missing riders are? What are your guesses?

[Kinsey]

One of them is probably Bode. I'm wondering whether or not Bode is the brother. He has said time and time again that he is not going to leave Zayden's side. So I think it could be. And if that's the case, then Melgren's signet won't work, and they won't be able to, like, locate where Zaden went. And we don't know if Panchak is dead or alive. But if he is alive, he can't really explain his dragon being missing and dead without them knowing that he's turned venom if he's alive. So he's got to be one of the four.

[Hannah]

Yeah, but don't they say four dragons and their riders are missing? So that would mean they wouldn't have found that dragon's body.

[Kinsey]

His dragon's desiccated, so there's no way for them to know that it was his dragon. Like, the scales aren't the color.

[Hannah]

So I think I just blocked out how horrific that. Yeah, right. Yeah. No, but I fully agree that whether or not Bodhi is the brother, he, in my mind, is for sure missing.

[Kinsey]

Mm.

[Carly]

I'm leaning towards Bode and Dane.

[Kinsey]

Ooh.

[Hannah]

Oh.

[Carly]

I personally think Panchak's dead and that they're gonna find him dead.

[Kinsey]

I hope he's dead.

[Carly]

Yeah. Like, prayers for Panchak being dead. I think it's. I personally think it's gonna be Bodhi and Dain.

[Hannah]

Explain the Dane to us. Yeah.

[Carly]

So Zaden sees Dayne at the end. He sees him, and his dragon being cornered. I don't fully understand how this works with his shadows, where he seems to see things wherever his shadows go, which is what seemed to be depicted at the end. But he did see him. And Dane at this point, knows too much. And I'm wondering if they're gonna take Dain with them. And Dane isn't gonna wanna go, like.

[Kinsey]

As a hostage or just convince him to go some.

[Carly]

I don't know. But, like, put him in a position where he has to go with them somehow. Because I think. I think they've either taken Dane with him or they've used Imogen to erase Dane's memories.

[Kinsey]

If they take Dane, we don't get slain train, and I'm gonna be real upset.

[Carly]

The thing is, I don't think all four of these writers are gonna be gone much in the next book. I think they're gonna be gone, and then some of them are gonna come back. And I think it would be interesting if Bode came back early on because I think it might cause some interesting political turmoil where people or some people on the council might want him to be in charge and not Violet.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

But that being said, I think the two other missing are Bode and Daen. That's my guess.

[Kinsey]

Well, cause, I mean, like, in that last battle, Dane figured out that Garak is a distance wielder and that Imogen has a second signet and a stone wielder. And they're like, can we trust him?

[Carly]

But then, well, and Daeden says, like, we don't trust him enough for him to know that or something like that when he learns about Garak. So I could see them doing something. So I kind of think Dane might be missing at first. And like I said, I don't think these characters are all gonna be gone all of book. I just think that at first he might be one of the missing writers.

[Kinsey]

Because it is interesting that Daenon, Imogen are the only ones that are brought up by Zaden's shadows. Like, we know nothing about her squad. But for whatever reason, Rebecca wants us to know at that moment where those characters are. Cause, like, for me, I was like, okay, well, if it's not Panchec, maybe it's Arryk. Because we still don't know where Arryk is. And he was also seen south. He is precognition. So, like, if the Melgren Signet thing isn't working out, at least Auric can use his precognition to help them get away with whatever they're doing.

[Carly]

Yeah. I definitely think Auric is another really good guess for this. But I could also see Auric, like, helping them and them not know. He's, like, meeting with them and helping with them.

[Kinsey]

I mean, he might not be, like, part of their group. He might just be following them and disobeying orders like he was already doing.

[Carly]

Just doing whatever he wants.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Carly]

Hannah, what's your final guess?

[Hannah]

I was gonna say R. Well, in the same order that every single thing you guys said was what I was then gonna bring up. So you covered it entirely.

[Kinsey]

Love that.

[Hannah]

Yeah. No, because we know it's Satan and Garak. And then my first thought. I'm not convinced that Panchic's dead, but I would like for him to be so cool. Let's open that up to two people that are still alive that it could be. And my first thought goes to Bodhi. Though I do think that there is a reality in which Bode might be dead, but I'll wait on that. So if it's not Bodhi, then I really like. I don't know how convinced I am about Daen. I love the point that you made about Zaden saying we don't trust him enough to know that, because he might be concerned. Because I was like, why would the Venin want to take him? But then when you put it like that, that Zaden might need to keep him because he doesn't want anyone finding out about the second Signet thing. Maybe that's. I could see that. But I was also thinking that it could be really interesting that Arryk would go. Because this is not the only thing that's going on. Right. We also have missing dragon eggs. We also have elders that have been killed. And I think Arryk has been so much of, like, a puppet master with a lot of this that it would. Unless he was strategic to make sure he was one of them that was back for optics. I could totally see him still doing that as one of the missing. Like, he might not even be with them. He could literally just be off doing, like, his Precog puppeteering somewhere else. You know, we're assuming that these four riders are together.

[Kinsey]

Well, I just had another thought, too. They needed royalty to make these deals with the other Isles.

[Hannah]

He could be.

[Kinsey]

So if the dragon eggs are. We're getting a little bit ahead. But if it's to make an alliance with Unbriel, they're gonna need someone to step in and represent them. So that could be another point for Aric being one of the missing writers. Just to be able to make other alliances.

[Hannah]

That's true.

[Carly]

But Unbriel also didn't really seem to care who the royalty was. They seemed to care who was the strongest best to them. Yeah, it seemed like that seemed to be the most important thing to them. But that is also a good point.

[Hannah]

I mean, it's been 12 hours. How long does Garak need to recharge if he's not the brother to distance wield these eggs?

[Kinsey]

Probably more than 12 hours. Unless they use Sloane to transfer someone else's power from Dane.

[Hannah]

Because, remember, he said that she didn't take all of his power. Who was it? Brennan said that he got extra from Dane. So that did imply that he was, like, missing a little bit more than he intended.

[Kinsey]

I love that we're making all these situations like, well, Slug could have done this so that Garrick could have done that, so that Art could have done this.

[Carly]

That's this whole podcast.

[Hannah]

Yeah, well, it goes back to what Carly said. She introduced this topic as. We get all this information from Brennan, and we do get details, but we don't get a lot of information for Brennan. So we're just trying to fit, like, with where we left off. We know a couple things is going on. If the dragon's eggs are missing, they've got to be delivered. I feel like that's a valid thing to jump to. It's just a matter of who we think did it. We know Garruk is gone. Could be him, though. It's a stretch with the time and. And Auric is the perfect. I mean, we don't even know much about where he ended off. We don't know that he, like his dragon, could be perfectly healthy. He could be perfectly healthy and fine, and they could have enough energy to fly to Unbriel to do that, you know, so there's a lot that could happen because we have so little conflict.

[Kinsey]

Lots of possibilities.

[Carly]

Well, another piece of information we get is that the three Elders are killed and six dragon eggs are missing from the hatching grounds. So what is your final bet on who killed the Elders and took the missing eggs? Assuming they killed the Elders to get to the eggs.

[Hannah]

So you're asking who we actually think killed the Elders? Yeah, I think that there's a reality in which the Venin could have went with their daggers and done this. Clearly, we're led to believe that it's Zaden, because that's what the Rider that talked about to Brennan says, that it must have been Zaden. But they don't have a lot of context. They Just saw Zaden turn and blackout an entire city. They don't understand that he was, like, saving everyone from wyvern. Like, they're just convinced he's full blown evil now. But I could very much so also see it being something where Sigeil and Taryn and Violet and Zaden felt like they needed to sacrifice some of the dragons and the eggs for the greater good of dragonkind. Which we saw the queen of Unbriel put. Like, she planted that seed for them by saying, we know you don't want to give your eggs, but, like, is that not worth the safety of all dragonkind for just a couple? So it could also be that it was them. And that could also lend to why Violet has had Imogen white memory, you know, like.

[Kinsey]

And Teryn did also foreshadow that he's basically willing to break the dragon laws. So I do think it's more likely that it was like the Venon and the dagger, perhaps. We know there's dead riders, but what if they went to go save the eggs or get the eggs, and then they happen to catch these riders turned venom in the act of killing the elders, also trying to steal the eggs. So, like, it could be a situation where it's both of them somehow the.

[Hannah]

Killing the elders is a big deal.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. So, like, I mean, like, we know Panchak is a traitor. Jack. Technically. I mean, like, I count Jack as a traitor too. Like, there can be more writers that are posing as Venin.

[Hannah]

Well, we've been told. We've been told that, right?

[Kinsey]

Oh, yeah. So, like, I think it's possible that maybe somebody was a traitor and went to go kill him. And then when they went to go get these eggs to, like, do whatever their plan was, they ended up killing them. And they didn't look like Vennon because they weren't channeling. They were in the wards. They used the daggers to kill them instead. Maybe.

[Hannah]

I'm gonna go really left field and bring up your theory. I think it was last episode that you presented Kinsey. Or maybe it was a couple episodes.

[Kinsey]

It was a couple episodes ago.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Where you talked about potentially corrupting the dragon eggs. And I'm wondering if that was the case. Which, again, this theory is then based on that theory being accurate. So it is a stretch here, but just to throw it out, it could be the situation where those dragon eggs were somehow connected to Zaden. And I don't know how that would play out exactly, but what if they were corrupted and were, like, singing to Zaden in some Capacity. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Cause, I mean, like, nobody goes to the Vale, and yet a Venn was allowed to sit in the hatching grounds next to these dragon eggs.

[Hannah]

That might be too much of a rabbit hole, but it seems like it could be a simple solution of, like, they just went to go get the eggs, they killed the Elders, and they left. But it could also be very complex in how it went down. I think my brain is scrambled eggs when I scrambled dragon eggs, if you will.

[Kinsey]

Here, I will say one last thing. When Andarna killed Solas in Iron Flame, Teryn did say that it was hard on a dragon's soul to kill another dragon. And Teryn is recovering from something. Everyone keeps saying it's their bond. But what if it's because he killed the Elders?

[Carly]

Yeah, that's why I think he's having such a hard time recovering. And, like, when she's mentioning that, like, he has to recover, and she's like, recover from what? And I'm like, yeah, recover from what? Because, like, he got netted. And I'm with you, Kinsey. There's like, that moment in Iron Flame where it's like, the mark on the soul. And I'm like, I think Taran killed those dragons.

[Kinsey]

Well, shit poor.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

In any of this, like, he did. He wanted to fight on the side of the revolution, but he did not ask for this tumultuous, like, mid-20s, borderline teenage, like, love affair turned venon.

[Kinsey]

And, like, what if they had to kill the Blue Elder so that Sigale would become the Elder because we don't know, like, where her line is, really, so that she could go off with Zaden? Like, what if that was a requirement for her to abandon them? I don't know. Probably not.

[Carly]

And I think it's important to remember that, like, Taryn and Sigale were in conflict with the Empyrean with a lot of the dragons about what to do about this whole situation. And it doesn't specify which hatching grounds it is. I don't know if it's the oration hatching grounds or the ones at Basgaeth. And if it's the one at Basgaeth, I think it was Taryn because those dragons stayed behind because they did not agree with what they were doing.

[Hannah]

Wait, I'm not following you.

[Carly]

Like, the Elders at the oration hatching grounds, right? Like, they agreed with the rebellion. They all left because they agreed on what they were doing. And Taryn was in conflict with the dragons that stayed at Bazga because they didn't Agree with the rebellion. And so he was in conflict with those dragons for decades about this whole venon situation. And so I think it's even more possible Taryn killed those elder dragons to get the eggs that they needed if it was the ones at bazga.

[Hannah]

So you're saying that the three stolen eggs and elders killed were not specified to be orishan. So you're saying it could be.

[Carly]

It just says in the universe, and both of them are in a valley. And I'm like, which valley? So we don't know. And Brennan's getting these reports, so it's more likely it's the orishan one, since Brandon knows this information so quickly. But it's also possible it's the ones about skaeath.

[Kinsey]

I don't think it's possible to be the basgiath ones, because just a flight to Basgiath is, like, 12 hours, isn't it?

[Hannah]

It's 18 hours from Orisha to Bazga and approximately the same to dreythis, because dreythis is, like, maybe an hour difference. So that's still.

[Carly]

Well, even if it's 12, that's, like, still probably two.

[Kinsey]

I mean, like, our time limit is 12 hours, but the flight just to Basgayeth is 18 from Orisha. It could also that maybe, like, they planned an attack at the same time for dreythis and basgaeth. So maybe people that were at basgaith, like, just were like, we're gonna go take these eggs and kill these elders. But it just seems, like, really weird to me that, like, they've been trying for ages to get to the veil. So why would they just only take six eggs and not just, like, take out the whole veil?

[Carly]

Yeah, well, I think. I think any venom would have drained, and there would have been evidence that they had channeled there. I mean, unless this is, like, a big setup on the venom side, which I don't think it is, But I kind of do think it's terror. I think that's why he's not well at the end of the book.

[Hannah]

Yeah. So basically, we don't have final answers to what we think is going on with the eggs.

[Kinsey]

I think Zaden took them, and either bad riders killed everybody or Taryn killed everybody.

[Carly]

Yeah, I think Taryn killed them to help Zayan's plan and take the eggs.

[Hannah]

Which does come into our next conversation. You'd already mentioned the bonds. So we also find out that Violet cannot feel her bond with Zayden at all. There's nothing there. It's gone. There is huge speculation that either Sigale broke her bond with Zaden, or Taryn and Sigail broke their mating bond, which would be possible through Andarna, who can bend magic. So what do we think about that?

[Kinsey]

If there's a broken bond, I'm leaning more towards Sigail breaking the mating bond.

[Hannah]

I need you to stop speaking it into existence, which I hate.

[Kinsey]

But let me explain. So in chapter 65, Sigale told Zaden, quote, we will ask, and her decision will determine our fate. Not Xaden's fate, both of theirs. So, like, to me, it made it pretty clear that she is choosing to stick with Satan and remain by his side, and she would instead have to make the heartbreaking decision to leave Teryn behind.

[Hannah]

I think you could also interpret that line to be about her and Zaden's bond.

[Kinsey]

That's what I'm saying. Sigeil was saying it'll determine our fate. Like her and Zaden together. Because she's speaking to Zaden.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

So the alternative is to stay with Zaden. She has to leave Teryn behind is what I'm saying.

[Hannah]

It could also be that she's saying she's gonna decide whether we stay bonded or we don't stay bonded.

[Kinsey]

Mm.

[Hannah]

You see what I mean? But I see both. I see why you're saying that, But I think I could technically go. So I actually think we could also apply that to, like, an overarching with the whole marriage thing, but we'll get to that later. But, Carly, do you have one way that you lean if there's a broken bond?

[Carly]

I don't know, in this magic system that it even works for Sigeil and Taryn to survive the breaking of a mating bond. Because in book one, there is this, like, epigraph that says, like, the bond between two primals is, like, one cannot survive without the other. So the information we have in this magic system, which might not be correct, mind you, given a world in which there's a lot of misinformation flying around, I don't know that we know that they could even survive it. And so I'm leaning towards. And Darna has fucked with all the bonds.

[Hannah]

All.

[Carly]

I think Taryn and Sigail are still bonded, but I think. And Darna has messed with the other bonds. So I don't think Violet and Zaden are bonded anymore.

[Hannah]

So that would imply that you think that Sigail and Zaden are not bonded.

[Carly]

No, I think Sigale and Zaden are bonded because they were Saying that the bonds between two riders don't always form. Right. So it's like. It's like a channel through Taryn. But in Darna is magic. She can break bonds as she sees fit. Right. That's what Leathan told her. So I think she messed with their bond.

[Hannah]

What would be her goal with that?

[Carly]

To protect Violet.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, but then it's like, they're just gonna take Violet's word for it. That, like, I think that if a dragon broke a bond, then they'd be like, yeah, they're not connected. So there's no point in trying to assassinate Violet to kill Zaden.

[Hannah]

Because let's back up here. The rationale for both of the bonds being broken would be if Sigail and Zaden broke their bond, it was because Zeta needs to go be Venon, and Sigail needs to stay near Taryn. So that is one way that keeps Sigale and Teryn from being in pain and lets Zaden go do his venom thing. That is, on one hand, the rationale for Sigail and Taryn breaking their bond is that they can be apart, Sigail can stay with Zaden, and their bond can exist. But now it's not painful for Sigail and Taryn. So if you're saying that all of those bonds still exist, but the only thing different could potentially be that Violet and Zaden can no longer telepathically communicate or are not connected via telepathic bond, then we still run into the issue of Taryn and Sigale not being able to be separated.

[Carly]

I don't know that they will be able to be separated in the next book. I still think they're gonna have an issue where they're having to, like, secretly meet up every couple.

[Hannah]

But they can't go a couple weeks.

[Carly]

They've gone a couple weeks before. They did an iron Flame.

[Kinsey]

I think they did, like, two weeks at their max. But don't quote me on that.

[Carly]

It can't just be easy, right? We have to have these forces pushing and pulling all at the same time on all the characters. So I think it's very possible that they are still bonded and that they're gonna have to deal with that, but they're gonna want people to think that they're not. But it's also possible Andarna messed with it in some way, because I don't think we know everything she can do to bonds. The way Leon was talking about it, he's like, bend it or break it however you want your magic. I'm like, what the hell does that mean? What do you mean, bend a bond?

[Hannah]

In no reality do I want Taryn and Sigail to not be bonded. I feel like that would just be heartbreaking, though. I would understand the rationale behind it, but it would just be awful. I do see a reality where Sigail stays and Zaden goes and Darna can rebond them at a later point. Yeah, especially because we get into the fear of Zaden becoming so corrupt that he starts to control Sigale. And so I could see that being a fear of Violet's, a fear of Terrance, a fear of Sigayl, and that their compromise now is. Okay, well, we just gotta trust you to go off and handle this. But maybe Sigeail doesn't want to leave him to. Maybe she's willing to risk it. I'm not sure. But I definitely see there being something going on here that is bigger than just their telepathics. Because in their heads, nobody else knows that they can do that. I mean, they can assume that they do, but she could just as easily say they can't anymore as actually not being able to. So I don't see how it would benefit them to not telepathically be linked. It could only harm them. Like, Violet could benefit from being linked to him to be able to communicate. Even though assuming they're probably going to be too far away to do that anyways. Most of the time, I don't think.

[Carly]

Taryn would want her to be.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, if Sigail broke her bond with Zaden. I mean, he's a very powerful writer, so maybe it would be hard on her to break that bond too. And her being Teryn's mate and being exhausted could also make him exhausted just because, like, some of her bonds are getting messed up. So, like, maybe it could just be that Zaden broke his bond. Cause he can have a wyvern he doesn't need. A dragon. Like Sigale could help keep him in check. But if he doesn't really have any part of his soul left, like, what's the point?

[Hannah]

Well, and I think to your point about Taryn being tired, that could be. I mean, Carly basically just explained that away without it being connected to their bonds at all. With the whole killing him, killing elders thing, like, to me, I think that that's what happened. You know, maybe we don't have to rely on that to understand the mating thing.

[Kinsey]

Maybe the bonds are fine and he's just in the aisles because they were cut off on the isles too.

[Hannah]

So oh, well. And we just talked about how the eggs would need to be delivered.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I just am leaning towards. I think, though, that Andarna has done something to these bonds that we don't have an understanding of yet. But based on what Leathan told her, I'm thinking we're going to find out, like, just. So there's a whole other twist to what has happened to these bonds.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

And I don't think anything that's happened is permanent.

[Kinsey]

And we also have to think, like, does Rebecca want to, like, make these changes all off page? Like, oh, Sigale and Taryn are broken up, but, like, we don't get to see any of that. Like, we're just gonna start the next book.

[Hannah]

Everything that happened in the 12 hours she wanted completely off page. So, yes, I also think there's a reality where, like, Rebecca doesn't watch theories, but she wants to keep people doing that. But she's not gonna want us to be fully right. I think that's why she doesn't give us all the information, because if it was easy to guess, then I think we'd lose the shock factor for her twists. And so I think we're theorizing based off of the information we have, which is limited.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And so it could be any number of these things, or absolutely none of them.

[Carly]

Well, and back to Kinsey's point about being out in the aisles, the Barons also don't have magic, so he doesn't even have to leave the continent because the Barons are out of magic.

[Hannah]

It literally could just be a situation where he's so far into this place without magic that they just don't have. Which is really intriguing, because then Sigale doesn't have to be with him. I mean, clearly, if he was going to the Isles, then she would need to be flying him. Unless he has a wyvern now. But Theophany did say those take a while to generate.

[Carly]

Maybe Sigil can't. Maybe they need Indarna, but, like, to remove the bond to protect her. So she could stay behind. Because he doesn't want to take her into Venon territory and, like, get her killed. I think this is going to turn into Zayden destroying the venom from, like, the inside out. And I don't think he'd want to bring Sigale there after Berwyn threatened to stab her.

[Hannah]

I know. So there's a lot of things that are pointing to. Like, it would just make more sense if Sigail was not with Zayden. But we are supposed to believe that she is or at least she's not known by Brennan because we get the four riders and four dragons, which we're assuming are the same. Like the pairs were led to believe that they're together. But I guess Sigale could be off doing. I don't know. It's weird because if Taryn's recovering, she probably is too. But maybe they just don't know where she is recovering.

[Kinsey]

Maybe they had a game plan for meeting up every week and that's why Violet had to have her mind wiped. So that when she's sleeping like Taryn and Sigale will meet somewhere in the middle and then like leave and everyone's bonds are fine.

[Hannah]

It's gonna get so messy.

[Kinsey]

It is.

[Carly]

I think it would be really interesting if this is so out of pocket.

[Hannah]

That'S been this whole episode.

[Carly]

Yeah, this is so out of pocket. I think the thing I would find the most interesting is if and Darna had to break the bond between Sigale and Zaden so he could go off and be undercover Venon, as I've been referring to it. But. And Darna bonded him. And that there is something different about Irids because we don't know yet. And that he could be off and it not affect her. And that way she can keep an eye on him and she won't tell Violet and Violet will find out later and be really mad.

[Hannah]

I would be so mad Leathan made.

[Kinsey]

Her break the bond with Violet because it would be hard on Violet to be far away. So if Andarna's here, I don't think she could be with.

[Hannah]

Len is already demonizing Andara for bonding Violet and the whole dynamic of them being like, I can't believe you'd be around Venon. So like, she would have to be like, to hell with any relationship with the Irids if I decide to bond a Venon. Also the fact that she is young so all the more susceptible to being manipulated by a Venon. So I hope that. I don't think that I would find that interesting. I would find that terrifying.

[Kinsey]

What if Leethan bonded him because he's still in the area?

[Hannah]

Who else haven't we named?

[Carly]

I'm just saying. I think I would find it really interesting if he was still somehow connected to the dragons and none of them knew because in Darne is sneaky. She does whatever she wants.

[Kinsey]

She is very sneaky.

[Carly]

And he's Venon. So we don't know how this would affect either of them. And Darn is the one that tells him, like, I can't be separated from her. It'll hurt her. And he's just like, you can do whatever you want to bond. But we don't actually know that that's for true with Aerid, because he doesn't confirm that. He's just like, you can do whatever you want to the bond because he wants her to go with him.

[Hannah]

We also got an epigraph before about dragons who had bonded to two. I think it was questioning whether that had ever happened in an epigraph back in Fourth Wing. Am I incorrect on that?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I don't think there was one about them bonding, too, but it was about choosing to break the bonds and that they don't have to die with their riders.

[Carly]

There was that.

[Kinsey]

I think we talked about it last episode or two episodes ago, because I remember talking about it and again bringing up, okay, maybe it is possible to break a mating bond or this and that and the other.

[Carly]

Yeah. And to be clear, I'm not saying it's likely that this is what would happen. I just think it would be really interesting as a plot device that that had happened.

[Kinsey]

I love how both Hannah and I had reacted to that being, like, what? Like, I felt like we both, like, backed up and made the same face. We were just so taken aback.

[Carly]

We have all of these assumptions about how the Irids work and that it works very similarly to how it works to the other dragons, and I just think we're going to find out that a lot of that just isn't true.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I swear.

[Hannah]

There was an epigraph that talked about. Or maybe it was an epigraph, but it was like something Taryn said, but it was kind of contrasting that, like, no two dragons had chosen one human, but it talked about one dragon choosing two. Or I could be conflating this with a theory that I had discussed on the pod in season one, where I asked those questions. So I could be conflating that. Could you? But I will look into it.

[Kinsey]

Could you be thinking of when the Irids had asked, what? Like, do you have a shortage of humans?

[Hannah]

It was all before Onyx Storm. The whole thing would have been fourth wing. But I'll look into it and see if I'm just absolutely crazy or not. But probably it would be interesting if there was one, because I feel like that would support your theory.

[Carly]

I just want way more information on the areas than we have, because I feel like we're just treating it like, oh, well, all of these rules are probably the same. And I don't think they are you.

[Kinsey]

And me, both girls.

[Hannah]

So I actually wanted to bring this up. We get and Darna back, which saved the book for me. First of all, that played a big role in how I walked away from this book. And I've seen this theory floating around. I'll do my best to go find the link for it and put it in the show notes. But there is a theory floating that in the time that Andarna was gone, which was not long, like couple days, maybe.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it was like four days.

[Hannah]

That potentially she bent time, that Irids can continue to bend time. That maybe that wasn't like her unique feathertail gift. Maybe that was like an Irid thing. I don't know. There might be some differences in their theory, but it had to do with time and that they could stretch time for themselves. Meaning that maybe she could have fit learning about the Irids and training with the Irids and getting that Irid information in this time span. That for Violet was just a couple days, but for Andarna, could have been years.

[Kinsey]

That would be way too convenient.

[Hannah]

It would be, but I kind of want it to happen because I don't want her to go again. And I want the information.

[Carly]

I find that interesting. I find time manipulation really complicated in writing. It opens up so many potentials for plot holes. I get really scared when authors do it because I'm always worried I'm going to find some major plot hole that drives me absolutely crazy because, yeah, my brain will hyperfocus on it. And I have seen many versions of that theory floating around. Hannah, I know what you're talking about.

[Kinsey]

That's the first I've heard of it.

[Carly]

Really? I've seen, like, I don't know, maybe a dozen versions of that theory.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I've seen quite a few.

[Carly]

Yeah. So you're not going to like my answer. I think potentially the series is going to end with and Darna leaving to go back to the Irids to learn everything. And once everything is settled, she's gonna take time away to go back to her family and learn about them.

[Hannah]

That's how you think the series ends?

[Kinsey]

I could follow that.

[Carly]

I think that's how Andarna's gonna end on this series.

[Hannah]

So she goes for good. I would actually really not enjoy a repeat of Andarna leaving again.

[Kinsey]

We already got a repeat of Zaden turning Venom.

[Hannah]

But that's my point. I fatigue. I would not enjoy that.

[Carly]

But. And Darna, I think, deserves to learn about her family, to learn about her heritage, to learn about that. And I don't think she had the time to do that. Personally think that, like, that would be, like, really frustrating for a reader to be like, oh, we went through all this heartbreak, but she only had to be gone for a week. And they just didn't say anything. That would be more aggravating for me as a reader to be like, why? Why didn't you say anything? It was only going to be a week. They could have been separated for that long without breaking the bond. Technically.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I already got emotional whiplash just having her come back.

[Carly]

So I think she deserves that time with her family, and I think she's going to get it. And I kind of think that's how her character arc is going to go, where she's going to get everything settled here, you know, solidify the relationships here and solidify everything happening on this continent before she goes to learn about her family. I think she'll come back, but I think she's going to. She will eventually take that time.

[Kinsey]

I'd actually like that.

[Hannah]

I would like to see it in a way that they still get to be together.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I don't know how, but that's like, I just don't want them to have to be like this. A repeat of them breaking it and.

[Carly]

Maybe they could fly out to Zelna and she could go back and forth or something. But, like, I do think she get is. I think she deserves that time. Like her character deserves that. If she didn't get it, which I don't think she did. And I want that for her.

[Hannah]

So. Last question for our discussion section in the same kind of style that we have been doing it. Final answers. Do you think that and Darna rebonded Violet when she came back, or are you on team? She's somehow communicating with Violet, but they're not rebonded. And then I'll give you my thoughts after you both answer.

[Carly]

Kenzie, you go first.

[Kinsey]

Oh, just because I don't want to get my hopes up. I'm saying no, but I already know what you're going to say, Hannah. So the answer is y. Because I had a moment where I was like, well, what if she just heard the whistle sound like when she was unconscious and she just didn't remember? But then I like, literally went back in the book and I looked at when she did speak to her.

[Hannah]

So you're getting a little ahead. My supporting evidence here was that Violet did not have an on page whistle when she heard her speak to her. And that to me indicates that it wasn't an irid to human conversation. It was a bonded dragon to rider conversation. So to put that context out there, because that's what you're referencing, Katzee.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, Sorry. But also, if she spoke to her in fourth wing, too, back to my theory, I mean, she would have been bonded in that sense as well. Or chosen to bond her in the future.

[Hannah]

Oh, yeah. Which I feel like I accept both on the same basis.

[Kinsey]

So I don't know, just for my heartache, I'm gonna just roll with, they're not bonded. So that way, when the book starts, I'm not gonna get my. But I do think that she did rebond.

[Hannah]

I am opposite. For the next year and a half, until we get the next book, I am living in bliss, assuming that they are still bonded. I didn't even know it was a reality that people thought. You know, I say, like, sometimes I make assumptions that I think are fact instead of theory. So this was one of those. I thought that this was fact that they were bonded until I think maybe it was you that I was talking to. But someone said to me they didn't think that they were rebonded. And I was like, hold up. What do you mean? What do you mean? And so I realized that that was actually a theory. But, Carly, you go ahead. You go ahead. You go ahead.

[Carly]

I think they're rebonded.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Carly]

So I'm living in that. I do believe that I understand why there's theories out there that they're not, but I do think that they are. I have questions about what that will do to her signet. Having a new bond form within Darna. We don't know the magic. I'm just saying we don't know enough about the Ayrns. And I'm getting a little frustrated.

[Kinsey]

I'm just hoping it reopened that same pathway.

[Carly]

Yeah, we finally got them introduced in this book, and I feel like we learned so little about such an important.

[Hannah]

Creature in the magic system.

[Carly]

I'm like, I need more.

[Hannah]

But, yeah, we don't know to spiral for a second. Do you think that means different signet?

[Carly]

Well, okay, listen. Different variation again, this is probably my most out of pocket episode, so just stay with me here. Rebecca Yarros was at an interview. Somebody asked her, does Zaden have a third signet? And she said, does he have two dragons? And I'm like, that's a really weird way to answer that question. And she did go on to clarify that she doesn't want overpowered characters and all of that. But to say, does he have two dragons? You Know who does have two dragons? Violet, the only one who has two dragons when being asked about a third signet.

[Hannah]

So I will clarify for that. That that was our show and I think she was being blunt on. I need you guys to understand how this works. He would only have one more because he has two currently. It's already been explained through his grandfather and Sigale. The only reality would be if he had another dragon. So I will say that up to interpretation on that, but I see where you're going with it. I just want our audience to be able to understand both those.

[Carly]

It was a really weird way. Sus way. I feel like, to answer that question, like, she was being facetious in the moment. She was trying to be like, absolutely, obviously not. He doesn't have two dragons kind of feeling way of answering it.

[Hannah]

I think she also didn't want our expectations too high about him being, like, having this other surprise and being underwhelmed, I think is partially what her motive was there. But, yes, go ahead, go ahead.

[Carly]

Violet has two dragons. Why would you answer it that way? I feel like it opened up a lot of suspicion for me. And so I was like, okay, what does that mean? And it's not even that I think she's gonna have this third total other signet, but I think it has the potential, since we know nothing about this magic system, to do something to the signet she kept. She kept it after Undarna left. Right. So she still had it.

[Hannah]

I wonder if it could actually amplify it in the way that Rebecca told us. We'd only seen 10% of her dreamwalking signet, and so that was on her Onyx Storm tour. It was the spoiler portion. So she had the expectation that we'd already finished Onyx Storm, which would have already bypassed Andarna coming back. So I'm wondering if it was like, it did amplify it or change it from how Violet experienced it before she was gone. She did experience it while in Darna was gone, which already opens up a lot of questions in Cannes forums. But it could just be the way to explain, like, yeah, for a book and a half, you've had a dreamwalking signet that we've been able to see very little of. And then book four, all of a sudden, we're seeing even more. It could be explained. She could use that as saying, well, they rebonded and it changed their magic chemistry or whatever.

[Carly]

Or just created, like, another link to it or something like that. Like another. I don't know. I Just think.

[Hannah]

I mean, I think she's a mindwalker. So like maybe that's the difference is like the amplifying it is kind of what I think I might be saying the same thing in different ways.

[Carly]

Yeah. Because we know she kept her dream walking signet. So rebonding create another bond. And I have questions.

[Hannah]

Okay, so final answer. Kenzie, you're open to them not being rebonded, but you're kind of leaning toward. You think that they are?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I think that she rebonded, but just for my sanity, I'm just rolling with. They're not still because I don't want to be sad again.

[Hannah]

Harley, you're also on the team. They're rebonded.

[Carly]

Yes. Rebecca Yarrow said that she felt like this left us off on a hopeful note and I think that that was part of it.

[Hannah]

So that has the only thing I could attribute that to. Yeah, I am full fledged. Same reasoning as you, Kinsey. But on the other hand, until Rebecca tells me otherwise, I am getting them rebonded as soon as I open book four. I'm also going to get Zaden and Violet's wedding on page until she tells me otherwise because that's how I manage my mental health.

[Kinsey]

Just know some authors never give us the wedding page, so I know I'm gonna. It's okay. We'll work on it before the book comes out. We'll do therapy sessions.

[Carly]

We'll find you some excellent fan fiction. Yes.

[Hannah]

There we go.

[Carly]

Deal.

[Kinsey]

All right, time to head on over to the healers quadrant to take a temperature check on our characters, our favorite moments and standout quotes before we dive in. I did tally up our favorite and not so favorite characters throughout the season and I thought it would be fun to share some of those stats with you guys.

[Hannah]

Oh, I'm very intrigued.

[Carly]

I didn't know you were doing this. It's very interesting.

[Kinsey]

I've been doing it throughout the whole season and I kept the document a secret, but I've had.

[Carly]

I love this.

[Kinsey]

So for Hannah's top three, she has a three way tie. In third place with Andarna, Riddick and Violet. In second place you have Auric. And with seven votes to no surprise, we have Zaden. Professor Ryerson Deverelli. Zaden for Hannah.

[Hannah]

You know what? I didn't let my man down.

[Kinsey]

No, you did not. For me, I was actually the only person who voted for enough characters to have a fourth place spot. But I'm gonna skip fourth place cause there's a shit ton. But in third place, I Have a two way tie between Daddy, Taryn, and Violet. In second place, I was surprised by this one. I had Zayden, which because, like, I was like, he's dead to me. He's. He went down on my book boyfriend list, but apparently he was second favorite. And in first place with five points, I have Riddick. And at one point, I did dub him our lord and savior of this book. Yeah, you kept it simple and I love you for this. So in third place you had Ri. In second place, you had a two way tie with Imogen and Taryn. And in first place with six votes, you had Violet.

[Carly]

You know that tracks for me.

[Kinsey]

It does track. Overall, we had 19 characters that we found hot. And in third place we have Riddick. In second place, we have Violet. And just one point difference. In first place, we have Zaden.

[Hannah]

I carried that for our knots.

[Kinsey]

So for Hannah, you have. None of us have a third place. Like, if we're going off of like, they only had one point. So we all only had two places. You had a three way tie between Halden, Meera, and Rebecca, who's not even character. And then in first place, you have General Eidos.

[Hannah]

So I'm actually so surprised it wasn't Rebecca.

[Kinsey]

No, I was like, oh, my God. Like, Rebecca, you're not even in character. For myself, I have a four way tie for second place with Zaden, Tern, Halden, and Andarna, which tracks. And in first place, I have General Eidos as well. For Carly, you have a four way tie with Halden, Aurra, Asher, and Andarna.

[Carly]

Fucking Asher.

[Kinsey]

And your first place is not General Eidos. It's Mira.

[Hannah]

Yep. That's where we also got a review from. Someone was so kind. It was such a cute review. But it also said that they were so shocked that we, like, are not team Mira.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And that was before our last episode came out. So we'll see what they think after this.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, she's like, I knew it.

[Carly]

Overall, I'm curious how our this week's hots and nots will line up with this.

[Kinsey]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Were they?

[Kinsey]

Okay, I did count this week's. In the final. Final tally. Overall, we did have 19 not hot characters. Third place with five votes, we have. And Darna. In second place, we have a two way tie between Halden and Mira. And in first place, we have General Eidos.

[Hannah]

Yeah, we kind of skewed that. Kenzie. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

And this. I just have, like random other interesting facts if you guys want to keep going. But there were A few characters where, like, everyone said they were hot except for one person, so. So Hannah, you did not find rehot the entire book.

[Hannah]

I'm so shocked by that.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I thought.

[Hannah]

But she wasn't there.

[Kinsey]

She wasn't. I did not find Brennan hot at all, but you guys both did. And Carly, this actually shocked me to my core. You did not find Arric or Andarna hot the entire book.

[Hannah]

She's the reason we got Andarna as our third knot.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, no, I mean, I put. Andarna is my. Not too a lot. But Carly had the loneliest hot choices with four hot characters not being chosen by anyone else. They were, like, totally random. And even though Riddick and Zaden were in our overall top three, Carly only found them hot once, so she knew.

[Hannah]

We had it covered.

[Kinsey]

Hannah was like, we gotta have some.

[Hannah]

Variation in here, guys.

[Kinsey]

Hannah was the most consistent. She had the least number of hot characters. She stuck with, like, the same group, and she loved them. I, surprisingly, had the most hot characters, and I voted 27 times.

[Hannah]

This is so fun. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

We unanimously agreed with our hot list in four episodes for Riddick, Violet, Taryn, and Imogen. Hannah, unsurprisingly, never found Zayden not hot, but Carly and I both did.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that is not surprising in the slightest.

[Kinsey]

I had the most unpopular opinion when it came to the not hot characters because I was the only one brave enough to add Sigale, Taryn, and Violet to the not list. And Carly had the least number of not hot characters with only 11. So she was, like, more forgiving than anybody else, I suppose. And on the other hand, I was the biggest hater with the most variety. I found 17 characters not hot and picked 23 overall. And then we unanimously agreed with our not list in six episodes for general, Eidos, Aura, Halden, Talia, and Mera.

[Carly]

That tracks.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I think my brain stopped processing this, like, three minutes ago. You're good.

[Kinsey]

You're good.

[Hannah]

That's so cool, though. Thank you for doing that.

[Kinsey]

I went through it and I put exactly who at the very, very bottom is hot and not overall for everybody.

[Hannah]

I feel like we need to make a statistics.

[Carly]

We need a social media post.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I was like, oh, apparently I like the most dragons out of everybody, but I also had the least favorite dragons out of everybody. But anyway, who was hot for you this week? Hannah.

[Hannah]

Love that transition. Actually, this might be one of the only times I ever said this character and I did not have Zaden on. Here it is. Imogen. I feel like she couldn't catch a break in any of her chapter. And we finally got payoff for her signet. Even though I did hate how we got the payoff because. But equally loved it. I have a very love hate relationship with the end of this book.

[Kinsey]

We know.

[Hannah]

Yeah. So that tracks. What about you?

[Kinsey]

I also chose Imogen because she's a badass and I've missed her. And I also had Sigail for sticking with Zaden and trying to prevent him from turning.

[Carly]

I also have Imogen. I think that she's a character. It's not credited enough how much she just. Just gives and gives and gives and doesn't expect anything back.

[Kinsey]

Oh, my baby.

[Hannah]

And then she lost the most. I can't.

[Kinsey]

And her boyfriend is missing. And who's not hot for us, Rebecca? I said Satan for turning again.

[Carly]

And I'm just still fucking pissed at Asher. So fuck you, Asher. I didn't think you'd usurp Lilith, but.

[Hannah]

I feel like if we did another reread of this, Carly would have Asher on every single episode.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, she's like, fuck him. I just remembered he existed.

[Hannah]

We're reading other books and Carly is sending me voice memos about Asher.

[Kinsey]

Oh, my God.

[Carly]

So, wow.

[Kinsey]

Favorite moments.

[Hannah]

And Darna coming back. Is that on Yalls as well?

[Kinsey]

No, actually.

[Hannah]

Oh, my gosh. That was like the reviving aspect to the end of the book for me. But you guys know I had to throw this in here. Zaden's shadows being gentle with Violet in the midst of his Onyx storm. And him holding onto his love for her.

[Kinsey]

My favorite moment was Gawain counting her kills. It reminded me of Lord of the Rings when Legolas and Gimli were arguing over their kill counts. And I just thought it was really funny.

[Carly]

I know Hannah's like, talking about what.

[Kinsey]

That means because I've not read or watched it.

[Hannah]

Smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Carly]

I love that I got both of those references. I put that. I just. I can't choose. I love the entire ending of this book. I loved those last, like, four or five chapters. I think that they are perfect no matter how. How you might be mad about where things got left in the story for a cliffhanger or whatever. I just think that it's all perfectly written and I think it's woven in a way where you're just like, what really happened? It's so good. I love the ending. I especially love how it ended with the memory wiping. It's so good.

[Hannah]

You Balance us so well.

[Kinsey]

Favorite quotes. Let's start with Carly.

[Carly]

What you asked me to. It is such a badass way to end that book. I mean, what a cliffhanger. It was so good.

[Kinsey]

It was such an epic last line. It's like mic drop.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Especially knowing that she had it planned. That's crazy to me.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I just want to know how she had that plan since Fourth Wing if Violet was originally supposed to be the one to turn.

[Hannah]

I know. And we've spiraled about that before. That's the reason I didn't put it in this episode. But also, it also, like, keeps me up at night.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yeah. I also have that one. I hated the ending without the ceremony, but love that last line. I will say the ending was really solid. My other two are. We made it a good one. And this one especially. You have been the gift of my life. That quote, that shit takes me out.

[Kinsey]

That made me cry.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I had two quotes. One was between Imogen and Glayne. She had said, are you kidding me? And then Glayne said, did you fall off? No, I did not bond a whiner, so I have to stick with something funny. And then Imogen, when thinking about Dane, said, guess Ados is all about breaking rules. Now.

[Hannah]

I just want to take a moment and applaud Dane, because this line is specifically about him breaking the rules to go save Imogen. A marked one. And I love to see that growth from him. Like, that's just one of those gold star moments. He had quite a few of them throughout this book, and I'm just like, they're all delicious. And I'm so grateful that Rebecca did change my mind about him, and that is for sure, one of them. And that's also why I really hope that it's. If he is one of the missing riders, like you were saying, Carly, if that theory is true, that they give him a chance to prove what we've gotten to see. Zaden's not in Imogen's eyes there that he has become trustworthy.

[Carly]

I just love how much Dane continually chose his squad selflessly this whole book. So I'm with you.

[Kinsey]

I love him so much.

[Hannah]

We know. I have to say I do, too, now.

[Carly]

All right.

[Hannah]

I don't think you got stats on this, because you guys have managed to tie for the amount of times you could guess my favorite quote. I didn't give you a chance this time, but I feel like you guys would have gotten it. So we're just gonna cheat and say that you both did get it. Or you didn't get it. And then just, you know, we'll wrap that up on the fact that you guys know me so well. Equally know me so well.

[Kinsey]

Yay.

[Carly]

All right, let's stop by the scribe quadrant for our epigraph analysis of the most thought provoking epigraphs.

[Hannah]

The chapter 63 epigraph reads, quote, fuck you. My daughter and I will meet Malik with clean consciences. Will you and your daughters be able to say the same when they come for you? The last words of Triscilla Cardulo redacted.

[Kinsey]

This epigraph was setting up Imogen's chapter. We got to see the personality of her mother before Imogen painfully brought her up to Quinn. Her last words were likely directed towards Lilith Sorringale, since we know she was responsible for the executions in handling the marked ones. And Lilith has daughters.

[Carly]

The Chapter 64 epigraph reads, A gift from one servant of Dune to another. I must warn you, only those touched by the gods should wield their wrath. I will pray to her that she need not use it to avoid reacquainting herself with the other who curries her favorite. Her path is still not set. Recover correspondence of High Priestess deserve to his Royal Highness Cadet Arryk Gray Castle, Prince Camlin of Nabar.

[Hannah]

This epigraph is the message in the package that the priestess sent to Arryk for Violet with the ceremonial dagger described as, quote, a carved piece of gray marble with familiar flame shaped etchings along the hilt. This flame shaped etching was an Easter egg for it having been made of the Eretian temple of Dune. As Violet Describ described a piece of the temple column as having flame inspired etched edges back in chapter 52. And this could actually be a rune, as back in iron flame, chapter 22, when Violet learns about runes, she thinks like the ones on my daggers, the ones on the columns of the temple in Orisha, the ones I'm currently weaving in my lap and who, quote, I'd like to also point out that she says, a gift from one servant of Dune to another, implying that Violet is a servant of Dune, even though technically she hadn't made that consensual decision on her own at this point. And before we jump into discussing who we think this Other is, that curries Violet's favor, I want to know what we think it means that Violet did use this dagger to kill Theophany, and hence did reacquaint herself with the Other. Regardless of who we think it is, what do we think reacquainting looks like for Violet. And also reacquainting, implying that Violet was already acquainted with this other who is not Dune. So it's not like it's saying, oh, you've been touched. You're reacquainting with Dune. No, at some point, Violet was acquainted with this other. So what do we think that means? That was a lot of questions. But hold off on the other first.

[Kinsey]

I think it means that she is about to see heavy manipulation in their presence within her own life. I'll kind of, like, get into it a little bit, I suppose, when I say who I think the other is. But certain gods have been more present in this book and others have not. And maybe they were taking a break and they. Maybe it's gonna get a little bit crazy for her in the next one.

[Hannah]

Okay, okay. Maybe we circle back to this after we find out who you think the other is. Carly, do you have any ideas on what it means for Violet to actually be reacquainted with some other God?

[Carly]

I think it's clear that maybe she doesn't realize she's been acquainted with this other God. So I wonder if it is one of the reasons why they took her to the temple of Dune in the first place. Like, maybe she had another illness that they didn't realize or know about. Because we know, like, her mom was really sick when she was pregnant with her. Maybe that is a, like, a separate issue than, like, her ligament issue and things of that nature that, like, we think that the dad went to go, quote, unquote, fix that she was so hurt by. Maybe it was actually something else, and maybe that was why he took her to Dune. So maybe she was, like, on death's door, her. And maybe she was acquainted with Malik, maybe as a child. But the only other God I feel like she's talked a lot about here is Loial.

[Hannah]

Well, and I was about to say, if we think about what it means to be reacquainted, it implies that she was once it stopped. So she actually mentioned early in Onyx Storm that she used to frequent Loial's temple. Temple to, like, praying for love. And so I wonder if it could be as simple as her reacquainting herself with, like, that attention, even though clearly we have seen that the God of love, blessed. I mean, I guess you could look at it and say maybe he didn't bless her, considering that Zayden has now been in. But not to make this more complex than it needs to be, I just am so curious about what I Like, your idea can see that reacquainting just means it. Like, that God is now hyper fixated on Violet again. But at this point, which of them haven't been? It feels like all of them have been.

[Kinsey]

So I disagree.

[Hannah]

Oh, okay.

[Kinsey]

Are we good to talk about who we think the other is now? Okay, so I think the other God is malak, like, 110%. Nobody close to Violet died this entire book. Like, I don't think that Trager and Quinn count, but, like, we have to think about, like, how, like, Liam died previously, Mira narrowly escaped death, which we.

[Hannah]

Also did say seemed like a gift from Malik.

[Kinsey]

From Malak. And speaking of gifts from Malak, like, Liam said in Iron Flame that him visiting her was a kindness from Malik. So I think it's clear, like, she's been acquainted with Malak before. Maybe her loved ones have been spared because she prays to him the most, and that's like, saving their lives. But. But, like, we kind of got a break from really bad deaths in this book, so I feel like he kind of took a step back. Now we're gonna see more death. Mira shouldn't have escaped death, so maybe she's not 100% safe.

[Hannah]

So are you looking at it like, reacquainting herself with the one who thinks her favor is a negative?

[Kinsey]

He's the God of death and is causing death to happen in her life, either making it so that loved ones aren't dying, or are. But, like, we had Lilith, her freaking mom, dying in Iron Flame. In book one, we had Liam dying. So, like, I just think she always, like, prays to, like, oh, save them. Like, not Mira, not so and so not Liam. Spare their life and it happens, but then somebody dies later. And.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I totally see what you're saying. I'm actually wondering if it's opposite, though, because you're entirely right. We've seen him seeking her favor, and we've seen that especially in Onyx Storm. And this is implying a reacquaintance, meaning that we wouldn't have seen it until the point where she uses the dagger. But we have. He saved Mira. We didn't really see any other big deaths. And so I'm wondering. We clearly know that Malak is seeking her favor, but if this other that she would be reacquainted with would actually be someone we have known really meddling, and now all of a sudden will because of this action. Do you see what I mean? On how I would actually take your evidence? Opposite.

[Kinsey]

I just felt like Malik was taking A break up until Mira almost dying.

[Hannah]

Oh, so you do think that him seeking her favor was him killing the people she loved?

[Kinsey]

No, it's like sparing people when she asks for it. But then when she's around Death, someone close to her does die. Like, she's acquainted with Death. You got to think of it like the Grim Reaper. Like, he. He's coming to her by, like, stealing her people and, like, taking him away or something. I felt like he took a break because nobody close to her did die. But she was familiar with Malik because her dad has died, Liam has died. She thought that Brennan had died, her mother had died, and then this book, Nobody Important died. So I felt like he was taking a break, and now he's.

[Hannah]

Okay, wait, no, I actually really like that because I was thinking it as a positive. He would now be vying for her favor more. But I actually think that the action of her using this dagger, basically saying, I am committed to serving Dune, essentially, is what the epigraph sets up. You're making this decision to commit yourself to Dune, basically, but not fully dedicate, then that would piss him off.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And so now he's like, I've been giving. You know, I've been giving you all these favors. I've been so. Okay, okay. I like that. Harley, what are your thoughts?

[Carly]

I definitely think Malik is the one we have, like, the most evidence for is the other one that's, like, trying to get on, I don't know, her good side. I don't know what he's. What does Death want with her? I don't understand what he wants with her, but, like, I definitely think he's the one we see most present. The one she talks to the most, the one she swears at the most.

[Hannah]

Oh, for sure.

[Carly]

She's always, like, mad at him. I just keep going back to the epigraph, where it's like, the only two that require a lifetime of service are Loyal and Dune. And so I think it would be interesting if it was Loyal.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. There was a moment where I was like, maybe it's Zanal, because he was very present in this book. He gifted Violet the compass that may or may not lead to a cure or finding Zaden. And Zannah did help Rhy in the past. That was very obvious to me. But I don't think that he's the main God currying for her favor.

[Carly]

Well, and Asher does seem to try to warn her away from Zinal in those journals.

[Kinsey]

And she's like, I'm never going to pray to him. Again, like after what happened with Trager.

[Carly]

So, yeah, that's true.

[Hannah]

Does that conclude our rabbit hole?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I think so.

[Carly]

I think so.

[Kinsey]

And on this epigraph. Sorry, there's one last line that I want to point out. So it says, only those touched by God should wield their wrath. Violet, Zaden, and Imogen are all described as being wrathful and full of rage in these chapters. So maybe this means that any of them could have wielded this dagger.

[Carly]

Ooh.

[Hannah]

Oh, that's it. Well, hopefully she holds on to that thing. I mean, it's not really going to help her with other venom. I guess it only really helps her with people who are.

[Kinsey]

It could help with.

[Hannah]

But still.

[Kinsey]

Satan, maybe. I don't know.

[Hannah]

The chapter 65 epigraph reads, quote, the only thing more unpredictable than the volatile province that is Tirandor is her due Duke. There is a reason reigning aristocracy should never wear black. Journal of General Augustine Milgren.

[Carly]

This epigraph calls back to Iron Flame, where in chapter 16 it is explained that holding political positions is uncommon among writers as they are discouraged from it as it creates a conflict since writers commissions are lifelong and quote, too much power and one person terrifies any king. Providing further context for how much power writers truly have in this world. However, it is not an enforceable rule, which is what we see with Zaden being both rider and duke of tirandor.

[Kinsey]

The chapter 66 epigraph reads, While cadets are strongly encouraged not to form romantic attachments while studying in the quadrant, lieutenants are permitted to marry whomever they choose upon graduation. Article 5, Section 7, the Dragon Riders Codex.

[Hannah]

This epigraph was foreshadowing for this very same chapter. We should have known right then that a marriage was coming, but we were just flipping as fast as we could.

[Kinsey]

We're like Zayden. No man.

[Hannah]

Also, that chapter's so short. Yeah, so short you wouldn't know it from this episode.

[Kinsey]

God, no.

[Hannah]

Now take flight with us over to the hatching grounds for our Easter eggs. And moments of foreshadowing, which today is combined with our theories section.

[Kinsey]

Woohoo. For chapter 63, Zaden was already missing and likely with Berwyn in Imogen's point of view, Imogen thought, where the fuck is Ryerson? He'd better be helping in the northeastern tower because I haven't seen a trace of shadow in the last 20 minutes. He was gone.

[Hannah]

When Imogen is watching the Vennon take the tower, Quinn is in, she thinks, quote, they were supposed to be safe. No one was supposed to know. But the purposeful strides of those dark wielders prove they know what's happening in that tower, end quote. That was very likely a result of Panchak, though. Kaori was at the battle strategy meeting, as actually he was the only one there. Pancheck wasn't there, was he?

[Kinsey]

Nope. Pancheck was not there.

[Hannah]

Huh. There you go, Carly. That supports your theory.

[Kinsey]

Yep. He was already missing. So Kaori was the only one present at both.

[Hannah]

We also find out that Imogen has a second signet turning things to stone by touch. On that note, we got this incredible bit of dramatic irony in the final chapter from Violet, who does not know that Imogen has a second signet. Quote, my stomach lurches and Imogen tenses so hard she might as well be stone. Snaps, snaps. And speaking of those who do or do not know, Dane now knows about Garak and Imogen having two signets quote, and we're going to talk about whatever the fuck that just was later. And this begs the question of whether or not we will see Dane start investigating who all has second signets in book four.

[Kinsey]

Honestly, we need it. So.

[Hannah]

Thank you, Dane. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

And on that note, Imogen's speed is explained as a result of lesser magic and not a signet or rune, which.

[Hannah]

Is such a satisfying payoff and tie altogether. I've also seen a lot of confusion around the draining of the tower that Imagin is in while she is holding Quinn in her arms with people thinking it was Garrick channeling. But it's not, as there are Venin outside draining it. And we know this because Garak arrives during and says we have to go. There's half a dozen of them with their hands on the city walls draining the life out of the stone. So he explains it right then. He's not turning Venin.

[Kinsey]

In that moment, we possibly get foreshadowing for a cool new rune. Imogen thinks there has to be a rune somewhere that will keep the fucking lenses clear, player. Hopefully we see that come to life in future books along with Violet's idea for a communication rune we do plan to make.

[Hannah]

I have to know all of these random runes that she mentioned, so we do plan to make a guide on that eventually. We also got the smallest clue for Felix's signet. Violet thinks quote, I follow him past the little room where Felix works beside cases of alloy hilted daggers, all imbued, all humming with power. Now, this tells us that it's something that allows him to imbue. And we know from Zaden back in Iron Flame that not all riders signets can imbue. We also know that it's not an offensive signet because he would be utilized.

[Kinsey]

Out on the battlefield during the battle. Imogen thinks, quote, I've always known I'll die in combat. I just don't want it to be today. I'm really hoping this isn't foreshadowing, because, as I've said earlier, Imogen is my favorite. Maybe because Imogen didn't want to die that day. Malak favors her and will delay her death. Yay.

[Hannah]

This is also so similar to what Aric says about how he thinks he's gonna die in battle.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it's not looking great.

[Hannah]

Both of those can't just be her fucking around. She's planning to kill one of them like that.

[Kinsey]

It's intentional. Also, I'm not sure if these are meant to be taken as a figure of speech, but Quinn and Imogen say some really interesting things. As she's dying, Imogen begs Quinn to stay. She thinks, quote, I'm the one who's supposed to fall. She's supposed to live forever, Venon. Literally live forever. If we take this literally, why would Imogen think that she's supposed to die in combat and she's supposed to fall? Like, did they see an oracle? Did Auric tell her something? It's just very.

[Hannah]

You might be a little too close to the sun on that one, but I hear you.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. No, but I'm just, like, supposed to live forever. I. I hope it's just a figure of speech.

[Hannah]

Sentimental. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

For chapter 64, we are concluding Ice Watch with Zaden finally giving in and willingly skating on the ice as he loses his emotions and soul. Unfortunately, we didn't catch anyone else with the cold and icy demeanors, but we will remember this indicator for our rereads and future books. Maybe we'll find another Venon, but it was just Zaden.

[Hannah]

And I will go ahead and add that in Denver for her Q and A, Rebecca Yarrows did explain this as a hockey analogy on skating on ice and how that can relate to someone who's having, like, really intense emotions. I want to say she may have even equated it to, like, experiencing addiction, but don't quote me on that part.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

We can also make the assumption that Sigale and Taryn were captured via net within moments of one another. And I just want to know how the fuck the Venin just have a net in the sky waiting perfectly above both dragons. Probably a third dragon with whoever the Brother dragon was at the same time in the fucking sky, for one, without either of them noticing. They're supposed to be like the battle hardened general of dragons. And you're telling me that they somehow. Oh, there was a tornado going on.

[Kinsey]

I think she led them into a canyon or something with her tornado.

[Hannah]

I just feel like that was too convenient.

[Kinsey]

I agree.

[Hannah]

I will also say that if it was via wyvern. Okay, how did the dragons. Because they can sense the wyvern. Nor Xaden, who can surely sense the wyvern. Or even Violet, who we know can somewhat sense them. Why did they not sense them above assuming that that is how. That they actually did have these nets set up? Your guess is as good as mine, I guess.

[Kinsey]

I couldn't tell you.

[Hannah]

No answers. Yeah, that. Just that one. Okay. Anyways.

[Carly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kinsey]

Speaking of that scene, after Taryn screams for Sigail, Violet thinks. Oh, Malak, no. I'll be really mad if Malik saw this as Violet praying to him. And if Malik's only solution for sparing their lives was for Zaden to turn. Yay.

[Hannah]

I'm tired, Grandpa.

[Kinsey]

It's okay. We also get an interesting parallel between Violet and Zaden. When faced with saving their dragons, they risk themselves in the process, but they do react in different ways.

[Hannah]

Ways.

[Kinsey]

So Violet recognized she was near burnout and said, so be it, but theophany won't touch you. Violet would have chosen death, but Zaden chose turning to protect sigil.

[Hannah]

Oh, for chapter 65. I think that the reason Rebecca started calling Ri a retriever instead of like. I don't think she said summoner. But summoning in both the previous books was to differentiate her signet from the Venin mavens being able to, quote, unquote, summon their Venin recruitment. This next one is a state the obvious kind of thing. But just in case you missed it or were confused, Burwin is the Venin from the end of Iron Flame that Zaden thinks he killed. And we know this because Zaden describes him as bearing the scar down the middle of his face from when I threw him into the ravine at Bisgaeth. And because Zaden is his venom recruit, Zaden cannot harm him. And Berwyn can summon Zaden, forcing him to come to him. Which is how we ended up in this position.

[Kinsey]

The moment before Zaden turned, Violet felt Sigale's fear down the bond. Either Sigale was scared for her life, scared for Zaden, or scared of Zaden and what he'd become. My Shayla.

[Hannah]

Oh, yay.

[Carly]

I Want to point out a little clarification regarding where IM was during this chapter because there's a lot of overlap here and it gets a little confusing when Zaden has his Onyx Storm. It says quote, quote, he sees it rushing over Imogen as she looks to the sky. We know this is not when Imogen looked at the sky at the end of her POV as she was back inside when she looked up at the sky in her pov. So I just want to make sure that that's clear where these overlap.

[Hannah]

I feel like Rebecca intentionally made that.

[Kinsey]

Confusing sounds about Rebecca.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yep. So you guys know that I love reading the same same moments from different POVs to see how they contrast. And we get this one from Violet's point of view. Shadow throws theophany to the ground a second before it rushes over me, whisper soft against my cheeks, tossing us into the pitch black night that probably didn't need all the dramatics, but you got it anyway. And then that very same moment in Zaden's pov we get, quote, I shove the maven to the ground regardless of her rank, then slide over Violet with a gentleness that takes all my concentration as he's literally turning evil, losing his soul. His soul is dying and I'm over here fangirling over.

[Kinsey]

He touched her with his shadow.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I know how ridiculous I sound. I own it.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

This line also confirms that lower ranking Venin have some sort of restriction against all higher ranking Venin, not just their personal sage.

[Hannah]

Yes, but not restriction from physically harming her because he was able to shove her. Yep, notable.

[Carly]

So I know we're going to get into our brother conversation later, but I just want to point this out here. When Zaden is realizing he has a new quote, unquote brother, he thinks, quote, now that my sage has another sibling he can use against me, I'm screwed. This is the only time Zaden uses the word sibling instead of brother and specifies that this new sibling is, quote, unquote, another that can be used against him. Meaning that they are not the first. And since I doubt Jack can be used against Zaden, my guess is that there is another person and close to Zaden who has turned and is a sister, not a brother that he just.

[Hannah]

Hasn'T told anyone about. Yep, Because I kind of at one point theorized that potentially this person wasn't newly turned, but it kind of partially was outlined. So we actually think that there is this new brother that did turn because he's seemingly reacting in real time. But you're saying there's another Vennon that's in Flynn. Who do you think that could be outside of our core tenderness?

[Carly]

I don't think it could be in our core because I think I had a long conversation about this with Kinsey the other day. But I don't think it can be in our core group because Zaden would never trust somebody like that around Violet. He would never leave her, like, say, with Cat or Rhy if they were Venon, and just be like, she'll be fine. Nothing bad will happen with that scenario. I don't have a lot of female characters that I feel like it could be that are not around Violet a lot that are left to with her. The only one that I can think of off the top of my head is Serena.

[Hannah]

Why are you thinking a female?

[Carly]

Because it's the only time he says sibling instead of brother, and I'm like, why are you specifying sibling now instead of brother? And he only says it once and only when referring to another. So I think that that's potentially foreshadowing. It could be a brother. It could definitely be a brother. But if it's a quote unquote sister and not a brother, the only other female character I have that wouldn't be in the core group that he would feel the need to warn. Warn Violet about or do something about that potentially could cause political ramifications for him would be Serena.

[Hannah]

Is there anyone we can think of that could have been used against him politically?

[Carly]

Well, Serena's the only one we can think of.

[Kinsey]

Maybe Serena Purpose?

[Hannah]

No, I don't think we've seen her.

[Kinsey]

Well, we know that she moved up in the royal line. We know that her aunt died. Maybe she gave the Venon information on how to kill her aunt. And she's been gone this whole book. She has been absent this entire book.

[Hannah]

Which, if we think back to Cat's gift, if she's taken out literally, Cat would be next in line. Because I'm assuming that's foreshadowing that she's gonna hit royalty, like she's gonna be the queen or something. Coming up.

[Carly]

So, yeah.

[Hannah]

Yikes. Okay, for chapter 66, there is a highly speculated moment of shadow Quote. I groggily rise to my feet beside Imogen, and a shape moves in the shadows to the right. Write, I will not let them burn you and Darna. Vows. So I interpret that Andarna is the shadow that moves as she's blending in with the knight. Hence, that's why she speaks next. But many people actually theorize that it was Zaden. Also, death by Dragonfire is the sentence for traitors in Navarre, which is what Anderna seems to be referring to here.

[Kinsey]

We already see instances of riders wanting to use Violet to get to Zaden. And this foreshadows a lot of trouble for Violet.

[Carly]

Yay.

[Kinsey]

Right after she shows up to Ryerson House, a writer tells Brennan, just because she's your sister doesn't mean she's not the fastest way. And then Brennan cuts him off. He was clearly implying that killing Violet would solve their Ryerson problem.

[Hannah]

That does prompt an important distinction here. So the foundation of the theory that Zaden, Violet, Taryn, Sigale have about Zaden dying if Violet does, or vice versa, is that it would kill their dragons and hence kill them them. But Jack survived the loss of Bade because he was already Venon. The Venin have a new access point to magic, whereas a rider who loses their dragon loses that tether, if you will. So really, there's a large possibility that they could kill Violet and Zaden would be just fine because he is now Venon. So even if Violet, Taryn and Sigail all died, Zaden could still be left standing.

[Kinsey]

Yep. So they're dumb. Maybe it'll be like a.

[Hannah]

That's not where I was going with that. Sure.

[Kinsey]

Maybe it's going to be like a bait situation, like to get.

[Hannah]

I could totally see that.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

So there are a lot of theories about Brennan's initial reaction to seeing Violet when she returns in the final chapter, that her hair may now be fully silver or something else may have changed about her appearance. However, this was actually addressed by Rebecca Yarros in an interview with Variety. She was asked, quote, when Brennan first sees Violet in the final scene, his eyes bulge. Is that due to some change in her appearance? And she responds, quote, no, just because Brennan's perspective is she's been missing for 12 hours. It's already noted they have missing writers. So he's just very much relieved and is shocked to see his sister and see that she's no longer among the missing. And she's asked in a follow up question because there is a theory that her hair has gone full silver. And so that is why he. He's first shocked when looking at her. And her response is, quote, interesting. So I don't think her hair is fully silver now, but I don't think she's ruling it out in the future.

[Hannah]

And finally, we are going to provide the Easter eggs from this set of chapters for who could be the brother. Then we'll briefly go over the other possibilities hinted at not in this set of chapter specific Quickly, before we all make our final bets. First I'm presenting the evidence for Garak picking up where we left off last episode, tracking just how much distance wielding Garrick was doing with the context that he was already pushing Burnout before any of these new trips. We learned that one he was sent back to Orisha to get more alloy daggers, that is an eight hour round trip trip. He then wields Imogen and Quinn out of the tower and Imogen thinks I noticed the circles beneath his beautiful eyes, the unusual pallor of his complexion. He's exhausted. Side note, there's that pallor reference that has been used to describe theophany, but also showing how close he is to burnout before he wields yet again to get them out when they arrive. Trissa says that they need more power to bolster their runes and Garak says quote vote it's still not enough. I can't emphasize how big that is literally. If we take Rebecca literally, she said the brother is someone who didn't feel like what they were given was enough. It's right there. He hangs his head as he stands and says I can't, then sighs and goes out the door and it's like I can't and goes out the door. Imogen follows him, asking where are you going? I shout at Garak's back. I can't walk again. Even if I made it to Orisha, I'd never be strong enough to get back. He calls over his shoulder so I'd better find some fucking way to do something.

[Kinsey]

Honestly, that's enough for me.

[Hannah]

That is so. I still am not fully convinced it is him, but it's so. It's right there. Like that's who Rebecca is leading us to be. Now whether it's a red herring, I don't know. But.

[Kinsey]

Well, Rebecca also said in the Denver Q and A that we should pay attention to who's missing at the end if we want to figure out who the brother is. And besides Zaden Garrick is the only other writer confirmed missing. Adding on to that, Garrick told Imogen he's not leaving her, but lied because he's missing. Yes, it was about escaping after Quinn died, but he said it twice and now I'm mad that Garak did leave her behind and Venon are known liars. So there's another point for Garrick being Venon.

[Hannah]

I also want to point out, because we missed this in our discussion section, that it was clear, based On Imogen's reaction that she did not know that Garrick was missing. So that tells us that she was at least not privy to a good chunk of the 12 hours that were missing. Which is interesting, considering that if she can see Violet's memories as she wipes them, she would have seen Garak if he was the brother. Likely. I feel like that would have been the case.

[Kinsey]

Unless she can't see the memories.

[Hannah]

Which is interesting, right? Because again, it begs the question of how can she? We've asked this back in our Onyx Storm Prep Imogen episode. How can she know where to stop if she can't see them? So, yeah, important context. We now have our evidence for Bode, starting with the last time we see him is from Imogen's point of view, who sees him on his hands and knees across the town square, retching, which could potentially be him actually channeling from the Earth. That's subjective. It's based on her point of view. Right.

[Kinsey]

So, yeah, she did just see her best friend die in her arms. So, like, she could be confused, could.

[Hannah]

Be a little bit unreliable. Could look like it. I mean, I wouldn't think that's what that would look like. But he's on his hands and knees, and she could have just assumed he was facing away. That was what was going on. So some evidence there. We also get this whole conversation, first of all, between Zaden and Sigail following his Onyx Storm is full of vague clues that I think point out who could potentially be the brother, but they all seem to point to Bodhi, even though every other clue points to Garak. I'm going to read this excerpt and then I'm going to explain. So, quote, you tell me I lower the ice and let her in. Her next breath is laced with sulfur and her eyes widen. You cannot mean to. She gets cut off. You saw what happened. It is the only way. She glances over her shoulder. And you think she'll help? She loves me.

[Carly]

Me.

[Hannah]

Taryn does not. And you haven't looked in a mirror yet. The red veins branching from your eyes look like her lightning. She'll help. It comes out with a hell of a lot more certainty than I feel. She promised. So, to me, it's clear that they are talking about Zaden marrying Violet right now. Like, following this conversation as they go on to talk about him being owed a favor from the priestess of doom. Also, Zayan lets Sigeil in on this plan in this exact moment, Meaning that Zayan did not think of this plan as a response to whoever this brother is. Until now, as Sigale would have known from reading his mind. This doesn't necessarily mean that Zayden didn't plan to marry her, as it's been clear that he had been throughout the whole book, just not under these specific circumstances. And Zaden says, you saw what happened. It's the only way. As Sagaya Dale glances over her shoulder, which could be interpreted to be looking at this new brother. All of this points to. To me that Bode turned and now Violet is the backup plan for Tyrandor and however they're supposed to move forward. Zaden says she'll help. She promised. Because he did make Violet promise to take care of Tirindor. In every other area, all clues point to Garak being the brother. But I just don't know how to make sense of this whole conversation and the references that they're making if Bode is not the brother. Unless Zayden thinks that Bode is dead, and this is not about the brother, who could very well be Garak, and that. That's what he's saying. You saw what happened. I think it could be the case so that Rebecca could leave us debating between the two. Bode and Garak. But I really hope he's not actually dead.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, so I don't think she'd kill them off Page. Anyway. He's too big of a character.

[Hannah]

Right. So the only way that any of this conversation makes sense is if it is Bode that turned. And that's what they're referencing here.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, unless she's, like, looking over her shoulder to, like, see the destruction because he, like, blocked out the sun so.

[Hannah]

Like, she couldn't see anything, which is totally fair. But that's. That's, like, an additional supporting piece. It's about what they reference and how he talks that, like, if it's not Bodhi, this doesn't make sense. Yeah, what did she see happen that's now prompting him to go get married and use his favor? And also something that he made Violet promise, which was to take over Tyrandor, if that's, like, it wouldn't make sense if that's Garak. Even though I really was convinced. Like, I'm so torn because of that.

[Kinsey]

Unless he knew Bode would follow him no matter what. And now because he has the lightning streaks, he's like, I can't go back. Which means Bode will refuse to go back.

[Hannah]

Wait, I'm not following.

[Kinsey]

So maybe he knows that Bode's not an option for taking care of Tyrandor. Because he knows that Bode will stick by his side regardless of whether or not he's the brother. And Sigail did point out that he has the Venon veins streaking down his face now. So, like, it would be obvious that he's a Sim and not just an initiate. Like, he could hide it as an initiate, but right now he can't hide it. So, like, he can't go back to Tyrandor. And so Zaden has no choice but to leave and Bode would leave with him.

[Hannah]

So you're saying that the reference that he's making to. You saw what happened. It's the only way is because he knows he can't go back to Tirndor. The only way for Tyrandor to continue. Okay, I could see that.

[Kinsey]

That's just like one. I'm just like playing devil's advocate here.

[Hannah]

But no, I needed it explained because I really am convinced it's Garak. Except for this. You put every other piece of evidence and I'm like, it's fully Garak. Give me this. And I'm like, it's gotta be Bode. How the fuck? Someone commented the other day on one of our posts and was like, it's clear as day who the brother is. They don't say who they think it is. It was just like, it's clear as day in the last chapters if you read them who the brother is. And I'm like, please tell me.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, tell me, please. Honestly, I do have another bit for Bodhi potentially being the Venom brother. So Zaden thinks that he knows of at least one other Venon who feels the way he does when it comes to not being able to hurt your sage. Bodhi wasn't able to use his signet against theophany, so maybe this was meant to be a clue.

[Hannah]

Ooh. I have wondered this whole time how Bode was just now figuring out that he couldn't use a signet on Venon and how I didn't really believe that. Ah, see? But now I'm feeling like it's Bode.

[Kinsey]

I know it's the back and forth.

[Hannah]

It's. I can't get it. I can't nail it down. I will say, and this is actually evidence for me against Bode and Garak. The small window of time between the last point that we see either boy. So Bode is on the ground retching, and then we flash forward, which can't be too long between the end of Imogen's because she's still relatively in the same spot. And at that point, Bode is getting sick. His dragon was severely injured with a gash in the wing, like a slash across its chest. How is this unconscious dragon that is now surrounded by like 7 wyvern or something like that, that it's not netted? So they had to have time. If they used a net to get it to un net it. I need it explained if it's either one of them, how that dragon that's injured, whether they, like captured it closer in to the city, was then transported or made it to the canyon, became unconscious like. Like in this short span of time, to the point where when we start Xaden's pov, because there's still overlapping time before Zaden fully does channel, he's got time, like where he's thinking and he's talking and they're doing stuff with Pancheck, they're already there. The only way I can explain it for Garrick is he had a distance wield, which then begs the question of where the was his dragon. Because it's not just the brother that's there. The dragon is. So if it's Garrett Eric, then how did his dragon end up there unconscious in this short span of time? So now I'm talking myself out of both of them. I don't understand.

[Kinsey]

Well, we do have other options. So these next contenders didn't have Easter eggs in this set of chapters, but an argument could be made for them. So we're still just going to present it here for Arryk. We know that Zaden and Berwyn are in the south at the end of the book. Arryk was last seen in the southern valleys in chapter 62 before Zaden's onyx Storm and was not seen or mentioned again for the rest of the book. Assuming he's still in the southern area, this could give Arryk enough time to travel to Zayan and Berwyn's location for the brother scene. And we know Zaden and Berwyn are in the south during that time. Arryk could know about Zayan being Venon through his Precog signet. He definitely knew how most of the battle would unfurl. And I'm sure Zaden's Onyx Storm was part of that. He was part of Quest Squad and saw Zaden suffer for five months. And he's the last person Zaden could expect to turn because he's a prince of Navarre and joined the writers to fight against Van Venon. That being said, we don't know if he was missing at the end. And we don't know if he felt like whatever he had been given wasn't enough. Like Rebecca said.

[Hannah]

I'd also like to add that not to kick my whole dead dragon with our unconscious dragon. It was supposed to be a dead horse analogy, but it didn't really work. If it was Auric, I could see there being, like, the lack of time constraint, but you would think that with his Precog, he would have seen it coming, and it seems like the drag. Unless he's trying to do an undercover spy and act like he was forced into it, which I could totally. That might actually explain what I'm about to say. But the unconscious dragon implies that there wasn't really him planning to go there. Because if he turned, you'd think he would have known about it.

[Kinsey]

Sacrifices have to be made sometimes. Maybe he was one of the missing four riders because they need representation from Nevard.

[Hannah]

I think it could be really interesting if he was. Was. But I. It's so hard when you look at the evidence for the other two. Okay, well, who's next?

[Kinsey]

Riddick. So, just going off of vibes. Riddick knew about Zaden being Venon and saw him struggle during Quest Squad's mission. But he wouldn't have known why Zaden was struggling until their interaction with the Irids. We know Riddick was longingly looking away from his own battle, and Aatrim was somehow able to outrun a green flamed wyvern, which is unusual, but doesn't necessarily scream Venon. But maybe that's how he got there in time. One could argue Riddick felt like he wasn't given enough and was frustrated that nobody took him seriously, despite strengthening his signet. Maybe he could have turned to help Violet and keep an eye on Zaden, but I personally don't think that would have made sense. And he would instead choose to remain by Violet's side at the pass. Riddick was pretty far from Zaden's location, and since there were only three dragons fighting against 17 Wyvern turn, it's unlikely Riddick could complete his battle objective and get to Zaden in time, even if his dragon is super fast.

[Hannah]

I want to jump back for just a second and say, I just thought of how it could work, that Auric felt like he didn't have enough or wasn't given enough because his signet is, first of all in its early stages, and it's not offensive. So maybe he felt like bringing in reinforcements that weren't riders. Right? Like, they don't have magic. They're just people.

[Kinsey]

He's also the spare sun.

[Hannah]

Yeah, also a clarification. We have Daen on here because he's, like, a really popular contender for people, but he can't be the brother because Zaden gives us his location during his Onyx Storm quote, tearing the heart from the wyvern who has Dain and Cath backed into a corner. So he's accounted for. Yes, and we know that by that point, the brother was right by Zaden.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, and Zaden had already killed the seven wyverns surrounding that brother before he saw Dain. So they're not the same wyvern.

[Hannah]

Precisely. Now for my least favorite part, because I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna say.

[Carly]

All right, time for final bets. Who's the brother, Kenzie? Okay, who's the brother?

[Kinsey]

My top three are are Garak, Bodhi, and Auric. In that order. As long as it's one of them, I'm fine. But Garak is my number one suspect. He meets all of the criteria from both Rebecca and Zaden. He's confirmed missing. He's clearly exhausted and burning out within these last few chapters. I didn't stick with my gut when it came to Violet's second signet, and my first thought ended up being what it was, so. So Garak was my first thought for the brother, and I'm gonna stick with it.

[Carly]

My final bet is Garak. Rebecca Garros, at that Denver Q and A, told us essentially, like, think about who needs more power. Bodhi doesn't want to be like, he's not a person who's reaching for more power. He doesn't want to be the Duke of Tyrandor. Like, he's like, I never wanted your province. I never wanted this stuff. Like, the whole book. He's like, no, I don't want more. I just want to do what I'm doing, doing. So I think it's Garak, and I'm really sad about it. Also, him being a distance wielder, I think opens up a lot of potential plot hole issues, ideas where it's like, why can't Garak just jump in there and fix this? And if he's venting in a way, that's why he can't.

[Hannah]

I made myself make a decision before you spoke, Kenzie, so that I could differentiate my opinion from y' all. And I decided on getting Garrick with the caveat that I still do think Bode's with them.

[Kinsey]

I do too, but.

[Hannah]

And I feel like afraid that I'm gonna Get bamboozled by Rebecca, and I'm gonna be like, everything fits except for you. Did kind of explain the whole Sigail conversation with that. But even that conversation with if it was Garrick that turned and he's like, oh, now, like, I'm gonna need bode with us because of the three marked ones. Need to. To keep Garrick safe. It's not just me and this now this. This is my actual brother. Like, so I'm also sad about it. But I do really like how that dynamic could look for Garrick. Zaden, Imogen, Violet, though I'm not super crazy about this is not my idea. I think, Kenzie, this might have been yours. I kind of thought that also in book four, we would get someone's romance, maybe that's Sloane and Dane, that it would be Imogen and Garak. But we wouldn't get to see that, really. At least in terms of they don't have the same exact issue as Violet and Zaden are dealing with. So final answer is Garak as well. I feel so confident in it and so not.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I mean, we were all convinced it was truth saying for Violet.

[Hannah]

We were so convinced.

[Kinsey]

But like I said, like, I. I literally had finished Iron Flame and I posted on Reddit and I said, I literally just finished this book an hour ago, and this is what I think her stigma is. And I thought it was dream walking, and people talked me out of it. So I'm like, that pissed me off that I didn't stick with my gut. That was the first person I thought of. And at the Q and A, when Rebecca had said, who's missing? I literally turned to my friend that I was sitting next to, and we both, at the same time said Garrett. So, like, to me, it was everything.

[Hannah]

That she said pointed to him.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Which it's another Violet second signet thing. I love to call it an enrichment activity. It was not done on purpose the first time. I totally think that she understood what confused us and what got us stuck for Violet's second signet. And she was like, I'm gonna do this again. But she can't be like, it's so obvious that people are saying she wouldn't be that obvious. Yeah. So it's actually still letting people theorize, which is really great when we have a year and a half to do it, at least.

[Kinsey]

Plus, Bodhi wasn't on Quest squad, so he knew that Zaden was struggling, but he wasn't actually there. Yeah, but Garruk was. Garruk was with him on Quest squad when they were stationed at other places. Garruk was there the entire time.

[Carly]

Agreed.

[Hannah]

I also think it's really interesting because Garak could also turn for love because he didn't just turn willy nilly. He was trying to save people. And he also did it in spite of knowing like how risky it was and and the damage it could do. So I. I still have hope for there being a cure.

[Kinsey]

Me too.

[Hannah]

And that Zaden and Garrick will be saved. Bode's definitely with them, so we'll have the trio off doing. I don't know how Bodhi's gonna be with them though, and not have him not being Venin himself.

[Kinsey]

He's got the serum.

[Hannah]

Oh yeah, he's. But I'm saying as far as like, I'm assuming they're gonna take them to like the Venin. What do you call that? Headquarters?

[Kinsey]

Their lair. Their evil lair.

[Hannah]

Like, I don't know. I don't know how much he can be with them there, but I'm intrigued.

[Kinsey]

Me too. Good thing we have time to think about.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Which also brings us to the fact that yes, guys, this is our last Onyx Storm episode, chapters by chapters, but we will surely be doing topic deep dives and things before Empyrean 4. We're absolutely going to be doing a Prep season for Empyrean 4. That's the most fun I think I've had was our Onyx Storm prep season, to be entirely honest, and then our initial reactions and stuff. So I'm really excited for that. Got other fun things planned for in the meantime though. Yeah, yeah, Secret sneaky peeky.

[Kinsey]

You guys will know soon. And this wraps up our Onyx Storm Deep Dive season. Oh, saying that instead of episode. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to join us next episode where we reveal what's coming next for Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast and make sure you subscribe wherever you are listening.

[Carly]

You can access all of our episodes ad free a day early and in full video over on our Patreon. Plus extras like my full onyxstorm PDF, annotations, shoutouts, bonus resources, and exclusive access to our Dear Fantasy Reader Book Club.

[Kinsey]

You'll find our Patreon link in the show notes along with all the ways you can support the show. Whether that's joining a tier, subscribing, leaving a review, or just sharing us with your fellow Romantasy readers.

[Hannah]

And if you are looking for more Empyrean content, check out our season one, fourth Wing through the Lens of Iron Flame.

[Carly]

Deep Dive.

[Hannah]

It is Chapters by chapters and season two, Onyx Storm. Prep for tons of Empyrean theories that still hold up for books four and five.

[Carly]

We'd love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, tag us on Instagram, or come fangirl with us over in our free Discord Chat. And if you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. It would mean the world to us.

[Hannah]

We have officially survived the storm. Until next time, dearest fantasy readers, prepare yourselves for for our next adventure as we eagerly await Empyrean book four.

[Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. I cannot believe.

[Hannah]

Stop me getting emotional.

[Kinsey]

Wow.

[Hannah]

Cut the tapes.

[Kinsey]

I can't believe we're done. Like, we have been covering, like, Preonic Storm and, like, what came 16 chapters.

[Hannah]

By chapters is what, four months?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, but I mean, like, we started our prep for Onyx Storm in December. It has been six months that we.

[Hannah]

Have been talking about this book, and it makes 11 months to yesterday since the podcast's first episode, and it was on fourth wing.

[Kinsey]

Aw.

[Hannah]

So 11 full months of Empyrean. And that technically will be a year around when this episode releases. So that's crazy, too.

[Kinsey]

That is so crazy. Oh, my gosh.

[Hannah]

And I love this series, but I am so excited to talk about other books.

[Carly]

Yeah, me too. Me too.

[Kinsey]

I'm so stoked.

[Carly]

I'm excited to connect to our community and see what they're loving and spiraling about and spiral about some new things together. It's going to be great.

[Hannah]

I'm so excited.

[Carly]

Yeah, me too.

[Kinsey]

See you guys there.