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- [00:00]
A
Morning Zoe Got donuts.
- [00:02]
B
Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?
- [00:05]
A
Well I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me.
- [00:11]
B
So Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [00:24]
C
Wow.
- [00:24]
A
Impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [00:31]
D
Nice.
- [00:32]
B
Je free.
- [00:32]
E
You heard them.
- [00:33]
A
T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for lunch?
- [00:42]
B
Dude, my work here is done.
- [00:44]
F
The 24 month bill credit on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oklahoma Speed Test Intelligence Data 182025 Visit T mobile.com.
- [01:00]
D
Foreign Dearest Fantasy Readers welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast, where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.
- [01:14]
C
I'm Kinsey.
- [01:16]
E
And I'm Carly.
- [01:17]
D
Join us as we enter the world of the Ascended, the first installment in the Asimmerian Duet, which released on October 7th of 2025 by authors Brie Greenwich and Parker Lennox. Today we'll first discuss our theories for the ascended book two, and then the Sundered Realms universe, including RealMBlade as a whole.
- [01:37]
E
With that content warning and spoiler alert for the Ascended. Since the Ascended is part of the larger Sundered Realms universe, which includes Riftborne and Dustbound from the Asprythian trilogy, we are structuring the episode into two parts. First, we'll start by discussing the Ascended and our theories for book two of the A Cimmerian Duet alone. That way, if you haven't read Riftborne or Dustbound from the Espritian Trilogy, you are safe to watch the first section. We will give another spoiler warning for Riftborn and Dustbound before we jump into discussing our theories for the Sundered Realms universe in its entirety and how both series may connect that way. If you've read all three Greenwich and Lennox released books, you can stick around for the full Unhinged spiral.
- [02:13]
C
Also, due to the nature of this book, this podcast is rated R in content and language. If you'd like to watch this episode ad free and full video or audio only if you would prefer. It's available now on Patreon, and we've dropped that link in the show notes as well.
- [02:27]
D
Before we jump in, we first have to send a huge thank you to the authors, Bri Greenwich and Parker Lennox, who not only created this incredible world, but are supporting the pod by sponsoring this episode. All of our thoughts, theories, and spirals are 1000% honest and our own, but we are endlessly grateful to them for helping make this episode possible and for building a universe that we'll happily spend hours theorizing over.
- [02:52]
C
If you did not know, Hannah is now the PA for Parker Lennox and Brie Greenwich. She had the honor of partaking in some plotting sessions for RealMBlade, book three in the Asprythian trilogy. So if she's a little quieter this episode, that is why.
- [03:07]
D
That is why now I don't know everything, but if it is something that I do know, I will not indicate one way or another. If you're right or wrong, spoilers ruin the fun. And we can't have that. Yep.
- [03:19]
E
I mean, you consider even tropes spoilers, so I know you'll protect our reading experience.
- [03:24]
D
I consider the smallest things spoilers. So, yes, you are in safe hands.
- [03:30]
C
But if you are watching on Patreon, you can like micro analyze every facial reaction that Hannah makes.
- [03:37]
E
So look out for this eye twitches, poker face.
- [03:42]
D
Kenzie and Carly don't know this, but they may or may not have been onto some things or so far away from them last episode. And you couldn't because I had a poker face.
- [03:53]
C
Ooh. Okay, pressure's on.
- [03:57]
E
Let's see if we can.
- [03:58]
D
I'm so excited to hear your theories today, guys.
- [04:00]
E
Yeah. All right, I want to start out with Navora, who I think, yes, like, she had an interesting character arc in that book of, like, her reasoning for it. I want to give this quote and then talk about it a little bit. Okay. And here I thought you enjoyed being Davina's right hand. And Nabora responds, oh, yes. Nothing brings me more joy than organizing harvest celebrations. It's exactly what I dreamed of when I was young, being Mother's glorified event planner for eternity. Where did Moros find Thais mom at a harvest celebration? I think Navora, not knowing it was Moros, but knew Olinthar was doing things he should not have been doing with the mortals.
- [04:48]
D
Oh, shit.
- [04:49]
E
I think this is gonna cause, like, some Sort of showdown between her and Thias. So I'm here for it.
- [04:57]
D
You really started this off really strong. Right in. So, Carly, you think that Nivorra was present at these harvests and knew that that's where Olinthar was, like, basically preying on mortals. Oh, yeah.
- [05:15]
C
Do you think that she's gonna piece together the fact that Thayess is Olinthar Moros's daughter? Like, do you think she knows that she's the bastard child?
- [05:25]
D
Oh, that's right. Because it's not like common knowledge still.
- [05:27]
C
Yeah, it's not yet.
- [05:29]
E
I think that's possible. But I think if Thias realizes that Navora was at these events and knew what he was doing, that it's going to be a big blow up.
- [05:43]
C
Because it's like, on one hand, if they're still trying to keep it a secret, which I don't really think they have to keep her identity secret since now she's immortal as well. But if they're still trying to, Navora could hold that over her for blackmail if she knows that she's a demigod. But yeah, I. I hope it blows up in Navarra's face.
- [06:05]
E
Yeah.
- [06:06]
D
I love your attention to detail here. I didn't even catch the overlap in Harvest.
- [06:11]
C
Well, I guess this kind of leads into my theory, which isn't as strong as Carly's because I'm like, this isn't even a theory. This is just kind of like a common sense. But I think that Zuul and Navarra will break up, like, way before the thousand year marriage contract is up. This is not even a theory. It's just like, duh, Like Thayas and Zul will get back together very, very quickly and then they will reciprocate the bond that he's already started.
- [06:40]
D
Oh, you think she's gonna do it back?
- [06:42]
C
I think she will. Like, once he's broken up with Nivora and they get back together.
- [06:48]
D
I hope so too. I may or may not still be upset about the ending.
- [06:57]
E
Yeah.
- [06:57]
C
If this is your first episode you've ever listened to, ever. Hannah has beef against marriages.
- [07:04]
D
How you describe this one? Beef against what now what?
- [07:08]
C
Marriages happening or not happening and happening in secret and off page or to other fucking people.
- [07:19]
E
To the wrong people.
- [07:20]
C
To the wrong people.
- [07:22]
E
Yeah.
- [07:24]
D
Yeah, I do, I do. But I'm excited to see where they take this. I also hope that it's not used as like, the whole plot point of conflict. The next book. I could see where that could lead maybe into that. Clearly, I Don't know the answer to that. But I am really hopeful that they do end up getting together sooner rather than later. I do think that there's some insights we can take from the other books to maybe tell us, like, where we think this could go. But we'll save that for our universe portion of the theories discussion, so we'll stay tuned.
- [07:57]
E
All right, I have a little one on Zul's abilities. So there is a part where Thayas has returned from that creepy forest where she was learning how to track things with Marx, the love of my life. And he responds to her quote, unless you'd prefer to stumble through tomorrow's lessons blindly as you did tonight's tracking expedition. Now, remember, though, Zuul wasn't there. And she thinks to herself, how would he know? And then cuts herself off. I think Zuul can actually use the souls to, like, watch things, hear things, get insider information. I think he can use the soul. So I think that's going to be, like, one of his abilities.
- [08:40]
D
And we're going to find out later if it's not. They should make it that there's some plot holes that I could see being like, oh, if he can kind of, like, use it to spy all the time, then you kind of have to fill. Okay, well, how has he not used it in XYZ scenario? But I feel like there could be ways to integrate that and I as a powers girly fucking love that idea.
- [09:05]
E
Yeah, I think maybe it's possible, like, he could only do it, like, on his territory or like, in there. So maybe that would be the limitation to it or something. But I just thought, like, oh, we got this cut off of how would he know that? I'm like, that's highly suspicious. So I keeping it out there.
- [09:22]
C
Unless he was just, like, tracking them himself. Cause I feel like that's what I think.
- [09:26]
D
I.
- [09:26]
C
If he could use the souls of the dead, I don't think he would have ever risked his own subjects when it came to spying on Olinthar, because that guy got caught and then Thatcher had to kill them. So I feel like if he could, he should use it all the time. Unless that makes it too obvious that he's, like, directly ordering these things or if there's the exception of it, can only be done on his territory because that's where the souls are.
- [09:56]
E
Yeah, I definitely think there'd have to be, like, a limitation to it. But I do think we're gonna find out, like, somehow, some sneaky way he knew what was going on in that forest.
- [10:05]
D
Do you think it could almost be more about commanding the darkness. Because then you get into like, okay, shadow daddy area. That I think is supposed to be like separate for his power. But I wonder because it was night.
- [10:21]
E
It'S possible because I have seen that as like an ability before where people like, who have like ability to like use shadows and stuff like that can actually see and hear things through the shadows. So it's possible. I feel like the souls would be really interesting.
- [10:36]
D
I feel like that would be really, really cool.
- [10:38]
E
Yeah, I think it would be possible, but I.
- [10:40]
D
It'd be really creepy. Imagine like a zombie stalking you. Like spying. That would be.
- [10:46]
E
But there obviously would have to be like some sort of limitations on the power. Like I think I. I think I've seen it before where when people can do that, like, it makes them vulnerable because they can't like see and hear what's going on around them in that moment. They can only see like where they're in here, what they're like in on. So that it makes them. Their body vulnerable to people around them. So I've seen like limitations like that. So there's like a lot of really interesting ways to write in limitations for that where somebody just wouldn't use it all the time. So we'll see.
- [11:14]
D
I like that one a lot. A lot, a lot.
- [11:18]
C
So I think that in the second book people are going to find out pretty quickly that Zuul's father isn't the legit king. But we're not going to stop there. So obviously Thayess is the real queen of the gods. But I think there's going to be an entire transition of power in the a Sumerian pantheon. So I think that all of the heirs will kill or take over for their parents. So similar in Greek mythology, you had the Titans and then they all got killed off by their children. And then you have the Greek gods. And so I think it's kind of similar to that. So first we had the primordials taken out. Now we're going to have the a Sumerian. And then now it's going to be the legends. But we already have seen this shift in power with Thay's and Olinthar Voronar and Harren Zul will hopefully take over for his father, which sucks for his mom because they have that bond, right? His parents do. But I think that they're gonna form like an entirely new pantheon. And really that's gonna be the only way to help the mortals get rid of the trials. Because everyone's gonna be Too stuck in their ways. So they're just gonna kind of need the younger generation of the Legends to do what they need to accomplish their goals.
- [12:33]
D
And we can discuss said goals also, I mean, if you'd like here in part for ascended specifically, but we should also discuss overarching goals for the universe as well as we come up. Do you have any thoughts on that? I haven't read Yalls Theories, so I might be jumping ahead a little bit here. But what do we think the actual goals of the Legends are going into book two? I mean, I know everyone's got like different ones, right?
- [12:59]
C
Yeah. I know that Zuul specifically like wants to end the trials and like stop killing all of the blessed mortals. So that'll be one of them.
- [13:11]
E
I mean, I think Nivora is kind of like a symbol for like what it's like when you always live under your parents thumb. Like.
- [13:19]
D
Right.
- [13:19]
E
Like all of them have these parents that are living a very long time, you know, potentially forever.
- [13:26]
D
And it kind of makes you question the point of them having an heir to begin with, which was addressed in saying like, yeah, when one had an heir, then the rest kind of followed suit. But it's like an heir to what if you live forever?
- [13:37]
E
Yeah, yeah. There's another book that kind of has like a similar thing if anybody. I won't give any spoilers, but if you've ever read Serpent and the Wings of Night, there's some interesting stuff about heirs in there that also comes up. And I think it would be interesting if this was about them wanting equal power to their parents. Equal say. Cause it's like, at what point in time are you. Have you not been around long enough to like also have an equal say in things? And I could see that becoming this thing where they don't want to be under. None of them want to be under their parents thumb anymore.
- [14:09]
C
There's also a lot of bitterness revolving around Navorah's relationship with her mother. So I could see her wanting to take her out just to, you know, finally have some freedom.
- [14:21]
D
I actually want that to happen. I. I find myself like, maybe it is. I didn't think it was. Maybe I relate to her in that. But like, that kind of sounds brutal.
- [14:36]
C
I want to kill my mother.
- [14:37]
D
Oh my gosh. Okay. Not what I meant. But I almost like empathize with her and so I want her to have a good character arc. Like I want her to not end up being the bad guy. Like I actually think it would be so much more interesting to kind of like see Them. I mean, she even said to Zool at one point, I'll be the perfect wife. You can do what you want.
- [15:02]
C
Yeah.
- [15:02]
D
And so I don't see it being this like jealousy, like, competition kind of dynamic. I actually would find it far more interesting if somehow they were able to work together and then like got what they, each of them needed out of the reason that they had to do this arranged marriage, which is what you're saying. That was her whole reason. I like that a lot. Back to the heirs thing in general. I think that they have a good opportunity here to really investigate what it would be like to be both the heir and the spare in one. Because with the dynamic, I don't know if I feel like most people would be familiar with the concept of heir and spare, but it's like the firstborn child is the heir and the second born is the spare. And then you see this shadow of a life that the spare has to live and what that brings up for that person character. And so all of these legends are both, they are the heir, but they are also the spare because they're never really going to see that point in time in which their parents died because they're not supposed to be able to. So I feel like either that could be a really cool thing to flesh out, or we start to see why the actual gods would be so concerned about dying and needing to have it at air. Does that make sense? Because as of right now, it's like there's really not much taking you guys out except for apparently Thatcher.
- [16:26]
E
Yeah.
- [16:29]
C
Do their souls go to the same place that the mortal souls go? So can they just go speak to them whenever? Like, I don't know. It's just, it's very interesting.
- [16:42]
E
I do think those dynamics would be really interesting to flesh out, though. I understand what you're saying about being both an heir and a spare kind of at the same time. That kind of dynamic where you were brought in for this one purpose, but also you'll probably never fulfill it, so what's even the point? And also maybe that just kind of like the frustration of all these legends and that just being their identity, like, what else are they other than like they become like their parents, errand boys, girls, people. Like, it's like what that can't feel good? Like they're that powerful, but also being made to feel like you're just there to serve your parents. And like, I. I think those dynamics could get fleshed out in a really, really interesting way. But it would also be interesting to know, like Is there something else out there other than the Thatcher that they're afraid of? That they are keeping secrets?
- [17:32]
D
Exactly. I love how you perfectly. You said all of that so much better than I did.
- [17:37]
E
No, I got what you were saying. It is interesting. I think either or both of those dynamics could be very interesting for them to flesh out in the series.
- [17:46]
D
So almost like a trauma bond way between all of them. They all get that. But also seeing how each of these legends, how that manifested with their own unique experiences, like Navora, specifically with how overbearing her mom was and how, for whatever reasons that have yet to be fleshed out have made her who she is. And you could say that for each of them. And so it's like there's a lot of room for Parker and Brie to play with each of the legends and their personalities and their character development through that. And I'm really excited to see it. I'm like, how many spin offs are you guys wanting to do? We could up that number, you know.
- [18:27]
E
Yeah. Maybe get like a couple dozen novellas in the middle.
- [18:33]
C
Oh, man, they won't have time.
- [18:35]
E
I know, I know. I just. I want all the stories. So there was a moment where they were kind of going through all the alchemy of it. Like they were. Zuul was walking thais through all of the properties of alchemy in this world, which I thought was really, really interesting. And we get this quote. Grief is one of the purest emotions. When crystallized properly, it creates an exceptionally strong alchemical componen.
- [19:01]
D
Ooh.
- [19:02]
E
And who is experiencing more grief right now than thay?
- [19:07]
D
Nobody.
- [19:09]
E
I think she is going to say, because they, like, say that they save the tears of people who have cried like, their grief and they crystallize that. That is what they're talking about here. And I think she or Zuul is going to save some of those tears and that that is going to be necessary to either reach Thatcher or stop Moros or both.
- [19:31]
C
I like it. So maybe they'll, like, create some sort of tool to open up the realms.
- [19:38]
E
And then maybe go out there.
- [19:40]
C
Interesting. I like it.
- [19:42]
E
I just think it'll be important. I think it was such an interesting detail that, like, that's going to have to come up, especially given how the book ended. She's devastated.
- [19:52]
D
This is one of those. I'm going to have to go ask them, be like, what are you planning on doing with this? I like this a lot.
- [20:01]
E
Carly has some notes we'd like some answers on. Okay.
- [20:05]
D
Always.
- [20:06]
E
I know, right? Okay. So the Other little tiny one I have is on the primordial abilities. Thayest notes this moment, she says, but the aasimer of fate was already gone. Vanished. No portal, no gradual fade. Just there one moment and gone the next. And this seemed really odd to her. They should have always seen them use portals and stuff to leave and get around. And this is when he was being possessed by Moros. So I think we're going to find out that the primordials have more abilities to kind of blip in and out, and they don't necessarily need those portals to get around, maybe within a realm, which might mean that Thaas and Thatcher have those abilities.
- [20:50]
C
Potentially interesting.
- [20:52]
E
I'm not really sure Thais gets all of that or if it's just Thatcher, but I'm just saying, potentially.
- [20:57]
D
Oh, I can't wait until we get into our spoiler portion. I'm like, how does this play out?
- [21:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, interesting. Well, first of all, do we even think that Thayas has primordial power, or is it just Olinthar's power?
- [21:14]
D
I have gone back on that because we know that she is part primordial. But you're asking if we think that.
- [21:23]
C
They made it seem like the seed of primordial power had only gone to Thatcher because, like, they're fraternal twins. They don't share, like, a placenta or anything. Like, they're technically, like, separated. And so they're different eggs. They're not.
- [21:38]
D
Like, this is me not knowing much about that.
- [21:42]
C
Yeah, they're not. They don't have the exact same DNA. Like, they're not like, one person that, like, split off and, like, just, like. Like, replicated. So it's like the way that he's, like, my seed of power. I was like, okay, so, like, one drop, like, so that makes it seem to me like it only went to him and not necessarily her. So even though it's technically all Olinthar's seed, it's like only the primordial part got to Thatcher's egg.
- [22:09]
E
But she's also so powerful that it's like she is. I've gone back and forth on whether or not she got some of the primordial power or not. Like, I'm not really sure on this. So potentially one or both of them might have this ability, which I would find really interesting.
- [22:25]
D
Yeah. I wonder if there's a distinction. Like, my interpretation, I guess, when I left off, was, okay, both of them have, like, whether it's equal or not, have inherited primordial powers. And that is why like, even though she wasn't just part God. Right. They've always been a little bit more powerful than everyone else. And clearly Thatcher is, like, way more. I wonder if there's an option for her to still have primordial power, but not specifically have inherited Vivreau. Is that how you say it?
- [22:58]
E
No.
- [22:58]
D
The one that actually that Thatcher actually got was like a reincarnate, essentially of vivos. And so I wonder if that is distinct, away from them getting the seed. And that was just something unique to Thatcher, whereas both Thayer and Thatcher can still have the seed. That sounds so fucking gross. This gives me the ick. But do you understand what I'm saying?
- [23:24]
E
No.
- [23:24]
D
I wonder if that can be. Because I think we are wondering if him having the primordial power is a result of the seed. And I think those are actually separate.
- [23:33]
C
Yeah. So you're saying they're not a reincarnate of an exact primordial, but because they're both descended from a primordial parent.
- [23:42]
E
Yes.
- [23:43]
C
That would place Thayer says, at the level as like an Asima. An Asimmerian or something.
- [23:49]
D
Take all that and say yes in the context of the seed conversation. But I do think in some way, maybe reincarnate is not the right word. But I do think that is what is happening with Thatcher and Vivre. I don't think. I think I might be butchering that name, but it's supposed to be. I think that that's still happening whether or not we're supposed to think it's a reincarnate or not. But whatever the reason for him having those exact powers may not be directly related to the seed slip again. But also, maybe it is a result of not as much. I don't know. There's ways that they could, I guess, get around that. Did that make sense?
- [24:28]
C
I think I made sense.
- [24:29]
D
Yeah. Circled around a little.
- [24:30]
E
Okay.
- [24:30]
C
Yeah.
- [24:31]
E
Is it exact genetics, or is it, like, reincarnation and like, something just also. Just different about them? Like, what's going on here?
- [24:39]
C
And when I say reincarnate, I don't think that Thatcher is like, the reincarnate of that primordial. It's just like that power is returned again. Because I feel like if Thayas had that exact power of a previous primordial, they would have clocked her, too. But Olinthar didn't have any interest in her.
- [24:57]
E
Right.
- [24:58]
C
So she's at the power level of them, but not a power that they've seen before, so they didn't care.
- [25:06]
D
I think where my mind went when you asked that if we think that thay's May, my mind went to will she develop additional power that she may not have unlocked yet? And that's where my mind went. Not that her existing power was connected to a primordial with that. You know, I'm actually kind of hesitant to think so, because as much as I love my characters, quote unquote, overpowered. At what point is she too powerful? Like, she's already got a really badass power and she was part God, and now we're finding out she is in some extent primordial. Descended. I don't know if that's the word for it.
- [25:46]
C
Yeah.
- [25:47]
D
And now she's the queen of the gods, essentially. And so if she ends up manifesting in some way even more, whatever, like the true Big Bad of this series, slash the entire universe, I suppose. We don't know. Would have to be all powerful for her to really not just be able to defeat them. No issue. But I would be really interested to see if she does get a different power. Is that what you're kind of saying that potentially she could.
- [26:20]
C
I wasn't thinking she'd have a different power. I was just wondering if her power was at that level stronger. Because to me, I just kind of always assumed her power came directly from Olinthar. So that puts her at the level of Zul. But really, if the power came from Moros, then she would be at the power level of Olinthar, and then she just also inherited his powers because she killed him and is the queen. But yeah, so I'm just. That's kind of where I'm stacking it, because I do think Thatcher is more.
- [26:51]
D
Powerful than her period, by nature of his ability alone. Yeah, for sure.
- [26:58]
C
Because I think they would have clocked her for having a primordial power if it was one that existed already. But maybe it's like she has the strength of that, but she's still also, like half mortal. Because I don't think the Asimmerians were like half mortal or anything. I think it was like the primordials together made the aasimar and the esperith and stuff like that.
- [27:19]
E
Agreed.
- [27:20]
D
Carly, any thoughts on that?
- [27:23]
E
No, other than I want to know in book two for sure.
- [27:28]
C
Dear Parker and Brie, please tell us how the genetics work in your world. Thank you. Please.
- [27:34]
D
Okay, so before we move on to our spoiler portion, I do want to ask a couple questions. Don't answer with context of riftborne and Duskbound. Okay, so it's just strictly ascended. And then for book two, first, at what point in book two do you think we are going to get what seems to be pointing to Thatcher and Thayer reuniting?
- [28:02]
C
I feel like it'll happen like earlier on, because I feel like we're going to experience a time jump and they have to wait 35 years for that seven second gap. So I think it'll be kind of like the preparation for that. And then they get those seven seconds and then they devise a plan after that on how to reach him, unless the plan has already manifested. And that's when they use the tool of her grief or whatever to get to him in the seven seconds. I don't know, but I feel like it'll happen before the 50% mark. They're not like reunited, but like, I feel like that 35 year span will happen at the very least.
- [28:52]
E
Carly. I think the 30% mark.
- [28:55]
D
Oh, I love a strong number. You said no additional context needed. 30%. Yeah.
- [29:01]
C
Because I always want to say the first third is like a good part, but then I'm like, maybe it'll happen more like towards the middle. I don't know.
- [29:09]
E
But yeah, and. Cause your question was, when is it pointing towards them being reunited? And I think. Yeah, like when do you think the 30% mark necessarily when they're going to reunite? I think we're going to see them making like significant progress figuring it out towards the 30% mark. And I think they'll probably be reunited by the 50% mark.
- [29:28]
D
Okay. Okay. What do you think Thais is doing in preparation during this 36 years?
- [29:34]
E
Crying?
- [29:36]
D
Oh, you think so?
- [29:38]
E
No, I do think that she is thinking about it, but I think it's a lot of research. I think it's a lot of research trying to figure out how to open a portal, how to get to him, what other realms are there, where could he be? How could you track somebody through a twin bond? Like, I think it's. I think it's research heavy.
- [30:02]
C
Yeah, I agree on the research. I think she's gonna try to research the other pantheons as well. She's gonna keep exercising on that twin bond. She also just inherited Olinthar's power, so she's gonna have to learn to exercise her extended magic and see what that looks like for her. There's gonna be the political aspect of her inheriting that power. So she's gonna have to learn to navigate through society without giving herself away as the queen. Because I don't think that that's gonna happen like in the beginning of the book.
- [30:31]
D
Right.
- [30:32]
C
But yeah, I think it's gonna be a lot of her being sad, but she's gonna be on a mission. I think that her having the hope, knowing that he's alive, she can feel him through the bond, and that they'll have those seven seconds, she's like, well, I can't waste a single second of it crying like, he's not gone forever. He's not dead. So she's gonna do everything that she can.
- [30:53]
D
Time to get to work.
- [30:54]
C
Yeah, exactly. So that's training her magic, that's doing research. That's. Maybe she's gonna work on the alchemy a lot more. I really like that theory about her utilizing her grief to do that.
- [31:06]
E
So gotta be good for something.
- [31:10]
D
So, before we move on to theories for the entire sundered universe, this is your official spoiler warning for Riftborne and Duskbound from the Asprythian trilogy. We highly, highly, highly recommend you go read those two books and then return for theories about how that world connects to the Ascended.
- [31:30]
C
Yeah, that realm.
- [31:32]
E
All right. Diving straight into dustbound riftborne territory. Kinsey and I had a long conversation about this a few days ago. We're both convinced Fia is descended essentially from whatever primordial created the Dreamweavers, like the Dreamweaver line of magic. So we're each gonna give a couple quotes for this. This is Fia's quote from Duskbound. To be clear, I dream, but not normal dreams. I see through other people's eyes, experience their memories, their moments, sometimes from the past, sometimes they're happening right now, and I can't control when they come or why they show me what they do.
- [32:15]
C
And then I had an annotation I made while reading the Ascended, and I was like. Like Fia, question mark. Because when Thais first saw her Dreamweavers, she described the Dreamweavers like this quote. Tiny drops of light moved beneath their skin. Their hair floated as if on a phantom wind. And their eyes held depths that made me dizzy to look into, as if I were staring into the night sky itself. And that description just instantly made me think of Fia. So I fullheartedly agree that she is, somewhere along the line, distantly related to whoever the OG Dreamweaver Primordial is.
- [32:57]
E
Yeah, I think we're both on this track, that she's got this weird dream power. She kind of looks like the Dreamweavers. Wherever they came from, they're both getting their magic from the same pool.
- [33:09]
D
First of all, I absolutely love this theory. I feel like I didn't read the same book. I'm Like, I've read this book twice. You guys have read it once. I'm like, I actually think I need to reread the Ascended again.
- [33:20]
C
I think I need to reread the Asprythian trilogy.
- [33:23]
D
Yeah, same. Yes. Yes. I will be doing that soon.
- [33:27]
E
Okay.
- [33:28]
D
So this is my first universe with tiered primordials, Gods, legends, Ascended. Wow. I actually.
- [33:38]
E
Did it.
- [33:38]
D
Yay. Thank you. But when we get into discussions on realms that are separate and have a different pantheon and things, I guess my first question would be, how could she be the descendant of. In another universe of this? Because I guess, are Primordials over the entire universe?
- [34:02]
E
That's my understanding of it, yes.
- [34:04]
C
Yeah. Because it was like the Primordials made their children were the four different pantheons. So one of those pantheons is the Sprithian, and the other are the. As Marian. And then, like, two other ones that we don't know yet. I remember, like, distinctly highlighting. I was like, okay, so this is how it works. Because Thais had read this in one of Zul's texts, like one of his books in his library. So there's the Primordials. They made the different pantheons. So whoever was the Dream Weaver, like, we're not. They're called Dreamweavers in this world. But, like, whoever originally had control over dreams and things like that, they made multiple children. So some of them are the Asimmerian, some of them are the. And it kind of goes down the.
- [34:56]
E
Line from there, but they're all connected back.
- [34:59]
D
What I'm looking up right now, as you're saying, that is each of those realms is known for, like, two words. And I cannot remember what the Asprythian's known for. And I wonder, because you're saying it's broken up by the children. So I'm looking that up really quick to see the different realms. I think this would be important to know for this overall discussion anyways. I feel like it was an Ascended. I feel like they were known for two different Wisdom and something, but I might be mixing that up with something.
- [35:27]
C
You're right. I had that highlighted. I'm gonna try to look for.
- [35:30]
D
See if you can. In the meantime, in Riftborne, the beginning, like, glossary names off that there is an S Breath of Foresight and s Breath of Wisdom and s. Breath of Dreams.
- [35:43]
C
Pause, pause. I go into that.
- [35:46]
D
Oh, okay. So it's kind of connected. So you're thinking potentially, before we get into your other part of the theory, you're saying that she could Be somehow, like direct descendant of Neeve, which is the esprit of dreams. And so potentially that's how she could have gotten the powers, whatever the Primordial.
- [36:07]
E
Was that created those in the Espritian.
- [36:10]
C
Everybody has powers, or at least most people do. I think everybody does. Right.
- [36:15]
D
Of their logic to share their magic.
- [36:19]
C
So it's like unlike in this world, most mortals. So I feel like, because everyone in that other realm, do they have, like, closer ties to the gods.
- [36:31]
D
So you think for Fia, instead of just kind of being gifted this exact gift just like anyone else, would you think she's actually a descendant herself?
- [36:41]
C
Yeah, but I mean, like, distantly, because we know, like, her parents and her grandparents and whoever before them.
- [36:48]
D
I like it.
- [36:51]
C
But just for context, just backing up a little bit. But he said we were not the only divine beings to rise against the Primordials. In the sundering before the first Primordials were slain, four pantheons existed in harmony, all descendants of the Primordials in their various aspects. The Asimmerians, the Esperith, the. I'm going to totally butcher this. Alistria and the Verhunt. So those are the four, but this is the quote. Each ruled their own mortal realms according to their nature. The Aasimar were order and hierarchy, the Esprit through harmony and balance, the Illustria through wisdom and transformation, and the Verhun through passion and darkness.
- [37:34]
D
Okay, I feel like that's important information to have as we go through these theories. Yeah.
- [37:42]
C
Okay.
- [37:42]
D
You're like, little do you know. All right, go ahead, Kinsey. Take it away.
- [37:46]
C
Earlier, Hannah, you had mentioned the esprit of foresight. So I think when Thayas was in the inner sanctum of that last trial and saw that third string, the fate line, I think that that was Sibyl. The esprit, the foresight. This is a quote from Duskbound. In the beginning, there was Sybil. The Esprit, the foresight. She gazed into the infinite expanse of time, seeing the threads of destiny woven into the tapestry of existence. With her sight beyond sight, she guided the paths of mortals, offering glimpses of what was to come. And thus she became revered as the harbinger of fate. So she saw tha's with eyes that weren't really eyes. And that thread did not belong to anybody that was there. She, like thay's knew, like, this isn't anyone's thread.
- [38:38]
E
Who's here?
- [38:39]
C
The thread also pulsed and directed Thayas. It didn't knot with others. So thay and Aether were the only ones tangled with fate due to the circumstance of their birth, their powers, their political influence. And I think that Sibyl gave a vision of their battle that's going to come and was guiding Theia since Thatcher's thread turned black and veered off into the void. Cause as far as we know, Carly and I were going back and forth for a long time because, like, their threads were tangled, and it was tangled with that third thread the entire time, but then his veered off, but she followed that thread into the inner sanctum. So I don't know if, like Thatchers went in there, but it seemed like it kept going in there. But also, I'm just going to point out that the person in that vision had red eyes. And we know that all the Asimmerian gods have gold eyes. We haven't met any of the Esprit yet. But I would like to also assume that the gods have a strange color eyes, so the red could make sense. It's just not a color that we've seen so far. So it could have been her, like, looking at her. But I do think it was fate. I mean, it's like the woven destiny, like the thread, like, we just get all of that.
- [39:44]
D
You think that the woman in the vision was.
- [39:46]
C
Yeah, I think it was Sibyl. I think it was like the esprit trying to guide her and just like let her know what's coming. Because we do know that Moros is over there. And at the time, Moros was in their realm. So she's kind of just like looking at her. Cause it seemed like it was happening in real time. And they had different creatures, which we know, like in Duskbound, they have kind of nightmarish looking creatures. Are they voir deer? Is that the name of their horses?
- [40:17]
D
Order?
- [40:17]
C
And so I think it was her. I think she was seeing them. But the fact that it wasn't just a vision, like she felt that presence there, just with that description, it makes sense for Cybil.
- [40:30]
E
I'm 100% with you on this, Kenzie. I was like, off on another theory, and you were actually helping me look up information for it. And I was like, oh. And you were like. Which convinced me my theory was totally off on who that person could be. And then you got off on this Espera theory. I'm like, that is 100% it.
- [40:45]
D
She's desperate.
- [40:46]
E
The fate, like, you're 100% correct.
- [40:49]
D
Wait, what was your other theory, Carly?
- [40:51]
E
At first I thought that maybe who she was seeing in the vision was Velda. Is that her name?
- [41:00]
C
Veldaelia?
- [41:01]
E
Ophelia. Because she goes by the name Ophelia. And I was like, maybe it's her that she's saying. That would be really interesting. But then she came up with this theory, and I was like, that's 100% it. That's 100% it. And there was also this moment where we realized too, that, like, both, like, the string and the girl's hair were both described, I think, as Storm Grey. Right. Storm Grey, Yeah. And I was like, oh, so that thread is that person, and that's why it's this odd color and everything. Like, in Dustbound. I can't remember the name of that land in Dustbound, where they're from, but everything there.
- [41:41]
D
Ubrathia.
- [41:41]
E
Umbra. Umbra. Everything there is described as being gray. And so I'm like. Yeah. So I'm like. I think all these things are connected, and it's gonna be. I think. I think you're right, Kenzie. I think it's the esprit. I'm like, 100% with you on this one.
- [41:56]
D
So you think that the Esperth had their own fate strand?
- [41:59]
C
Yeah.
- [41:59]
E
Yeah.
- [42:00]
D
Okay.
- [42:01]
C
Yeah. Because, like, she's in the inner sanctum, where they're not supposed to be. But we're assuming that. What's his name again? Voronar. Yeah, Voronar. He's like the Aasimar God of fate. So I'm assuming he can go in there. So, like, that's like his tapestry.
- [42:19]
D
Oh.
- [42:19]
C
But, like, the esprit is also, like, the God of foresight, but in their realm. And so I think that she was able to look at her. And maybe it's because thay's does have some primordial blood in her power that she was able to, like, activate almost a portal to this other realm, to, like, look at them. So maybe that's the main thing.
- [42:41]
D
This is, like, in real time. Like, that's.
- [42:43]
C
Yeah, I think it was in real time because thay seemed to think that that was happening. Like, she's looking at me like, this isn't a vision. Like, she's. She knows I'm here. She feels my presence. And just the way that it was described in Duskbound for the Esprit, the foresight, having the eyes that don't see or sink. Yeah, I don't know. I'm butchering that. But maybe that's how they're gonna see Thatcher for those seven seconds. They're gonna, like, have to go into that room, the inner sanctum room. Or something.
- [43:17]
E
Ooh, I'm here for it.
- [43:20]
C
Yeah, at first I was like, oh, maybe that thread's like, Fia. But then it just doesn't look like them at all.
- [43:25]
D
So that was my first impression when.
- [43:27]
E
I was reading it.
- [43:28]
D
And then I was like, I feel like hers would be more white.
- [43:34]
C
It would be white, and the person didn't have white hair. And Fia has dark eyes, not red eyes.
- [43:40]
D
Well, I didn't think it was the same person. I don't know if I'm still convinced, but I see why. But I don't know that I think that. I guess it is described the same way, so.
- [43:50]
C
Yeah.
- [43:52]
D
But. Yeah, no, when I first read it, I thought it could be Fia and that it was a different person that she was seeing. But, yeah, I'm 100% convinced that it's the same person. I just don't know who I think, like, the person is.
- [44:04]
E
I'm Esprit all the way.
- [44:06]
C
Yeah. And she saw, like, other visions, too, so I think it was just, like, she was guiding her to help them on their way and then was showing them visions.
- [44:16]
D
Well, you know, I think it didn't cross my mind that it would be the Esbrith, because we've not seen them in human form. So in my head, for whatever reason, they're not involved on Earth. But now, getting the Ascended, we see that that opens up to. They could be right, because we've gotten to meet these people. Versions of the Aasimar. Not versions, but they are people, just powerful. So I guess in my brain, I hadn't made that. Like, I hadn't given those same rules to the Espritian.
- [44:53]
C
Yeah. And, like, the. The Aasimar don't live in the mortal realm, so I could see the same being for the Esprit. But maybe they're just, like, letting them deal with their shit more. They just don't care as much.
- [45:05]
D
Well, also, these are not the only two pantheons we have.
- [45:08]
C
No, they're not. We have two others.
- [45:11]
D
We also have another duology.
- [45:14]
E
Yeah.
- [45:14]
D
Which I guess I can ask you guys after we get through our theories. I'll ask some, like, overarching questions I've got for you.
- [45:20]
C
And it's very interesting that the Esprit believe in, like, harmony when there's very clearly an imbalance going on in that world because they are completely draining each other's worlds. That's all I'll say. So maybe. Maybe they're, like, incapacitated or something, and they, like, need assistance somehow. I don't know.
- [45:46]
E
All Right. I think I know how Moros got out of the Void. I think he hitched a ride with Queen Ophelia. Because we get this quote. This is regarding the queens, right? The two. They were two princesses at the time. So we have the Queen of Umbra, and then we have the Queen of Riftomar. Right? And they're sisters, and we find that out at the end of Dustbound that they are sisters. And she used to go by Velda, and now she's Ophelia, so it gets a little confusing with the names. Because she changed her name. Yeah. But we get this quote regarding them when they were sisters, when they were young. Quote, their father took them to the Void when they were barely more than children. Their mother, she begged him not to, but I've seen glimpses of their life as they grew up. One of them later married a lord, and I think they both went in. The Queen of Ambrathia took Thatcher out. Where did Moros go? I think he hitched a ride with Queen Ophelia. I think he took her over.
- [46:52]
D
Love this theory, but I want to back up a second so I make sure I'm following. Why do we think that he's out of the Void?
- [46:59]
E
I have other theories on that.
- [47:01]
D
Okay, okay, so. But. But it's based on. If he's out, then you think this is how. Okay, gotcha.
- [47:06]
E
Yeah. Yeah.
- [47:07]
D
So you think he has, like, possessed her?
- [47:09]
E
Yes.
- [47:09]
C
Yeah. Well, because you have to think they are mortal. But she has not aged a day because she's the current queen. But she's the same age as Fia's grandmother because they're twins. So somehow she's, like, become immortalized, possibly due to.
- [47:27]
D
I thought that was a result of her.
- [47:30]
C
Oh, you're right. Stealing the power.
- [47:33]
D
Not stealing. I think she was just, like, blessed.
- [47:35]
C
She's avoided.
- [47:36]
D
There's other words. I just need to reread Duskbounds and get the exact wording they said.
- [47:40]
C
She was. The Siphon.
- [47:42]
D
Yes. Like, she's. Oh, it's literally guy's paws. She's a Duskbound.
- [47:47]
C
That's what it's called.
- [47:48]
D
She's a Duskbound.
- [47:49]
C
Yeah.
- [47:50]
D
Yeah, but that's the word that we were not using just now. She's the Duskbound.
- [47:54]
C
I went back and I read the last chapter again when I was looking for the thread thing just to be like, what does she look like? And it said Fia had the realization of, like, oh, she's the one that's siphoning the power. She's the siphon. They were looking for it wasn't the king, it was the queen.
- [48:09]
E
I'm convinced that they went in together.
- [48:12]
D
I'm mixing up my queens. I'm mixing up the sisters.
- [48:15]
E
Yeah.
- [48:16]
D
The grandmother is the Duskbound.
- [48:18]
E
And then there's the Ambrathian Queen. She took Dacher out. And then the other queen, Queen Velda, took Queen Ophelia. It gets confusing with the names. I think Moros possessed her and went out of the Void with her.
- [48:31]
D
Oh, shit.
- [48:33]
E
Yeah.
- [48:33]
C
And that's why she's an evil bitch and she's killed Ma and is causing chaos for the Esprit who thrive on harmony. She's, like, undoing the harmony and causing chaos. Isn't that, like, literally his thing?
- [48:54]
E
Yeah, he's just like a harbinger of, like, everything bad, basically. Yeah.
- [49:00]
C
And maybe the powers keep her young. Maybe it's the ceremony that he needed to perform. Who freaking knows? I have another one.
- [49:09]
D
I'm, like, building up questions that I'm going to ask you guys after we get through your theories.
- [49:13]
C
Okay, back to the twin bond and those seven seconds that we keep mentioning. I guess I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but spoilers at the time. Thais will obviously use the twin bond in those seven seconds that Harren can see Thatcher's fate. And I think that will also make Aether aware of the bond's existence. I mean, I haven't reread Duskbound since finishing the Ascended, but I don't know if he's ever like, oh, there's something missing. Like, he can tell that the bond is there. So I think when Thay's is actively, like, tugging on the bond or trying to communicate with him while Harren is trying to view that future, or his maybe not future, but just trying to see where he is, I think that'll have that realization in that moment and then also try to reciprocate it. And I think that that'll be a big part in being their gps and that'll help the crossover, because I do think that there'll be a big battle happening in the Duskbound realm, and maybe at that time, that's when she fully will be able to use her Queen of the Gods powers to help take out Moros. But as much as I want Thatcher and Thayas to reunite and be together in the end, I do think he will stay behind with Fia, which is sad, but I mean, spouses over siblings always. And I think their bond will be stronger once they're reunited as Gods, so that they'll be able to continue communicating in their different realms, even though they will be separated, so they'll still be, like, separated. They'll be with their people, she'll be with Zuul, he'll be with Fia, but they'll be able to communicate and strengthen their bond because they really didn't get a chance to do that once they ascended. He was taken pretty much right away.
- [51:07]
D
So I'm gonna kind of derail this just a little bit and ask some questions here, because I'm not gonna be able to join in on the Realm Blade theorizing episode when we do our prep season for Realm Blade, because I will know pretty much the entire book at that point. So I'm going to ask now while I don't.
- [51:24]
C
Yeah.
- [51:24]
D
So, like, where we're at right now is Aether has no memories except for, like, that one flash of seeing her. So, like, what do you guys think? When. I know you're the. You've theorized that you've touched on it a little bit of your thoughts here, but what do you think about how they're going to reunite? Exactly. And what a reaction is going to be because he's not going to know who she is, except for, like, oh, you look kind of familiar. Because I've, like, had that one memory, but I don't know who you are to me. And then all of a sudden finding out they have a bond. Like, what do you think about that?
- [51:57]
E
I think it's gonna be overwhelming.
- [51:59]
C
Yeah, it's gonna be overwhelming. A part of me hopes that, like, you know how sometimes a scent can just transport you to a memory that you didn't realize that you had? So I. Not necessarily like a scent, but I wonder if, like, the activation of their bond will kind of, like, awaken a memory, because I have a feeling that if she does actually get through, she'll call out and be like, thatcher. And obviously, at this point, he's going by Aether. He doesn't remember who he was. At this point, he's going to have lived as Aether for longer than he has. Thatcher, Stop. It's sad, but it's true. So I think that, like, when that bond is reactivated, it's like a sixth sense that they have. So that could, like, reawaken a memory and then her, like, calling out his name. And I think because he does at least know what she looks like if he sees her, because they have sent images to each other through the bond. Like, I didn't really catch that the first time, but when I was looking through my highlights and notes, she sent an image one of the times. So I think she could send her face and he'd be like, oh, I.
- [53:05]
E
Know you, or memories of them together.
- [53:07]
D
Yeah.
- [53:08]
C
But, like, seven seconds is not a lot of time because I don't think that Heron will be the one communicating. I think his job is gonna be trying to locate where he is, because at this point, Thayas thinks he's just, like, in the Void. He's, like, in the Abyss and just floating, so they don't know that they've landed in another realm. So I think Harren's gonna be focusing on trying to locate his exact location and seeing what's up with his fate, because his fate is gone to him. He cannot see it anymore. So I think he's gonna try to see what's gonna happen to him, but Thayest is gonna try to connect with him. And, like, they're gonna have to, like, do that together. They're gonna have to work together, the two of them, to connect to Aether. But, yeah, I don't think his memories will come, like, all at once, but I think he'll have recognition back. He might. I don't think he'll get, like, all of his memories back, but I think he will know that's his sister and that he's not from that world. Maybe he'll remember the Ascension.
- [54:15]
D
So you think if he does get them back, it would be through, like, tha's trying to show him, which wouldn't technically be even his own memories.
- [54:21]
E
Right?
- [54:21]
D
That would be like.
- [54:22]
C
So I don't think necessarily it'll be like, her showing him, but I think that her using the bond because that's, like, a different sense that they have, it'll kind of, like, reawaken a part in his mind to, like, bring those back and then she can show him, but it's still different. It's spoilers for the Hunger Games, but there's a character who forgets who they are, but they have a lot of footage of them. So they show this character, this is what actually happened to you. These are your memories. But they're like, I see them happening to me, but I don't feel them. All the emotions are gone. So I know that's what's happened, but I don't remember it. So it's like they kind of get those memories back in that way, but they are disconnected from it. So, like, tha's could do something similar.
- [55:07]
D
But I think Theus.
- [55:08]
C
But I think, like, him actually recalling will be simply because, like, the bond, like, as, like, there's other scents will bring it back to him. I think that maybe in that moment, he will recognize her, and with the feeling of the bond, he'll be like, oh, that's like, my sister. I think he'll, like, know who she is, and then, like, the other memories could come back with time maybe. And if not, then maybe she will just end up having to show him. But he's at this point again. He's lived longer as Aether, and he would stay with Fia no matter what.
- [55:41]
D
So I feel like, yeah, we're focusing on, like, how Aether's gonna react. And, Carly, I do want you to be able to, like, throw your. Your thoughts in here, but also, like, how is thes gonna react to him not being the same person anymore? Like, not even having the memories of who he was? Because she doesn't know that. She doesn't even know that he doesn't have those. Right?
- [56:03]
E
Yeah. Yeah. She knows he was with Moros, though, so I'm sure she has to, like, she has to suspect that that's gonna be a problem since that's what he does, and she knows that's what he does. But I think it's gonna be, like, bittersweet. Like, she's gonna get her brother, but not all of her brother. And that's gonna be really hard, like, to know that he's safe and alive, but, like, isn't. Like, she's not a part of his memories anymore. And that's, like. That's a tough pill to swallow. I think that they're gonna eventually get, like, their closure. Like, they're gonna get, like, he's gonna remember enough that it's gonna not feel so bad. But I think at first, it's not gonna be this, like, joyous reunion that she's hoping for that, like, he's gonna, like, she wants him to know, like, I never forgot about you. I never stopped looking for you. I never stopped trying. You know, she's not getting the same person back that she lost, and that's really hard. But I do think he'll get some of his memories back. I do think the twin bond will be important for that process. The alchemy seemed pretty important in book one of the Ascended, so maybe that'll also be a part of trying to help him get his memories back. That could be interesting. The esprit could come into play of helping him get his memories back. I think that could be really interesting. I wonder if Fia being a dreamweaver and having access to things could be an interesting way of helping him get his memories back.
- [57:25]
C
That is how she first saw Thayas, too. Was she was getting down in his business.
- [57:33]
D
That's true. Oh, that's true. So that's how she even saw it.
- [57:36]
E
So there's a lot of possibilities for him to get his memories back, but I think at first, it's gonna be really hard, because at first he might be really distrustful of this person because he has a sneaky.
- [57:44]
D
Again, he thinks that he did something wrong, too.
- [57:46]
C
So it's like, if this was Shela.
- [57:48]
D
I know. I literally want to cry every time I think about it.
- [57:53]
E
So he might be trustful of this person because he might think this person is actually maybe coming back to get revenge. Yeah.
- [57:59]
C
Plus, I also just realized we're getting realmblade before the Ascended, too, right?
- [58:03]
D
Oh, I'm going to ask you questions about that, too. Yeah.
- [58:05]
E
Yeah.
- [58:06]
C
Because they're like, oh, yeah, they're going to work hard to find him, and then they're going to go. And there's going to be this crossover. But if RealMBlade's coming out first. Because in my head, Moro is the bad guy. So I'm like, oh, yeah, they're gonna be like, defeating him in. In Rumblade. But I'm like, wait a second. But then, like, how do we get from the Ascended to over?
- [58:26]
D
So we can talk about that right now. Unless you have theories, you want to get out first and then we can talk about it after, because I have. I have, like, overarching questions that I'm gonna ask you guys. Do you want to go for that? Now?
- [58:35]
E
We have a couple more theories. Do we want to get through that before in case.
- [58:38]
D
Let's do that. We'll put a pin in this. Everyone listening? We will come back to that. And the trajectory, we think. You know what we think the trajectory of the series and universe as a whole will be. But I'm so excited to hear the rest of your theories.
- [58:52]
E
Okay.
- [58:53]
C
Okay.
- [58:54]
E
So earlier, you asked why I had thought even Moros got out of the Void.
- [59:00]
D
Yeah, right.
- [59:01]
E
Yes, because Fia's grandmother went mad, and I think Moros fucked with her mind. Oh, so we get the quote in Dustbound. She died not long after Skalvinder, not long after their father, in fact. Some say that was the catalyst why the Queen's mind began to slip into madness. And when they say she died not long after, they're talking about. She thought Velda died, but Velda disappeared and went over to Riftrymar and became Queen Ophelia.
- [59:31]
D
And so I'm Following. Now I'm following. Why you think that now?
- [59:34]
E
Yeah, Yeah.
- [59:34]
C
I held it in so that Carly could say her peace.
- [59:38]
E
So I think the reason why Fia's grandmother, the Queen of Umbrathia, has gone quote unquote mad is because she's lost parts of her mind. Because Moros fed on her. Because Moros hitched a ride with Velda, Ophelia out of the Void to a child. Well, they weren't technically a child, so they're barely more than a child. I think they were brand new, like, you know, basically, like 18 and being thrown into the Void.
- [60:07]
D
I picture them so much younger.
- [60:09]
E
Yeah, but I'm assuming because, like, Aether at the end of Dustbound and Thatcher, the end of Ascendant doesn't describe a child finding him in the Void. But she was very young, you know, and so, you know, late, late teen, essentially finding him in the Void. And to be clear, like, 17, 18, you're basically still a kid, but you're not like, six. Like, you know.
- [60:31]
D
Right.
- [60:32]
E
There's a slight difference there as far as, like, you know, how somebody would look and appear to you as far as height and stuff goes. And so I think that that's how they both got out of the Void.
- [60:43]
C
Yeah, because, like, you take away Aether, you're taking away Moros food source, so he needs to have another person he's feeding off of. Because we do know once he did leave the Void, he formed memories, so he wasn't harassing Aether anymore.
- [60:59]
E
Hmm.
- [61:00]
D
That makes a lot more sense to me now.
- [61:01]
E
So I think that's where it's going, personally. But I am convinced Moros is gonna be part of the problem in book two of Ascended Realm Blade. I don't think he's just stuck in the Void and no longer a problem anymore.
- [61:17]
C
Yeah, I think he's the problem because that's when he started having all the wars and all the issues.
- [61:25]
E
Yeah.
- [61:25]
C
So he's the problem.
- [61:28]
A
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [61:30]
B
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
- [61:33]
A
Well, I dig the mattress, and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you. Teach me. So, Dana.
- [61:40]
B
Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [61:52]
A
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [61:59]
D
Nice.
- [62:00]
B
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [62:01]
A
T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
- [62:10]
B
Dude, my work here is done with.
- [62:12]
F
24 month bill credits on Experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit sending balance due if you pay off earlier. Canceled Finance Agreement iPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1599.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto PayPal taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by O Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com Anyway.
- [62:29]
C
My final theory that I have part of the reason why I was asking earlier, like do we think that thais is also primordial? But I think that other primordial powers have been reincarnated into other realms with the different pantheons. Because to open the gate to the abyss, they need primordial power. There's the quote from the Ascended he said the tear Moros created, it only happened because two primordial forces were tearing at reality's fabric. Vivre's power and Moros's essence. Ancient enemies locked in direct conflict. We could gather all 12 AASIMAR and still not generate that level of paradox. It requires powers that predate the pantheon itself. Violently opposed creating an anomaly so severe that existence gives up. So I was like, okay, how are they going to open this up again? They're going to need those powers. So I was like, unless the tapestry of fate shows the future and not the present, like thayest thought maybe, hopefully Thaas has some sort of primordial power. Maybe they're going to have to go back into that inner sanctum and communicate with Esprit, who have drops of the primordial power. But unless other pantheons have reincarnated powers that are back again, I just am like how are we going to open this up? So I think that they're going to have to do that to have an endgame level crossover to take out Moros.
- [64:00]
D
But yeah, I love the idea of the Avengers endgame scene. Everybody coming together. Do we think though? I guess. Well, I guess I should say when do you think that would happen? Because again, we still have another duology that we really don't have any context for. Like who, when, where, how, why of that entire separate two books storyline.
- [64:27]
C
Are they just gonna take care of Ophelia and then that's fine, or like cause the story's supposed to end for them in the next book? So I'm just like, what's gonna Happen. But yeah, I don't know. They're gonna have to figure out how to create anomalies somehow. Like, maybe it'll be like a light and dark or. I don't even know because, like, tha's is light. So maybe Zuul will have to, like, combat hers or something. I don't know.
- [64:55]
E
We shall see.
- [64:56]
C
Unless the other Pantheon books are just prequel.
- [65:01]
D
Ish. Well, it's called the Illustrian, so that's the other pantheon.
- [65:09]
E
Yeah.
- [65:09]
C
Because it could just be like, oh, here's more about this world with this pantheon and their own issues instead of an overarching issue. But I feel like it would be more fun that way if it was all against the primordial.
- [65:22]
D
Like one big bad.
- [65:24]
C
Yeah. Because, like, it fits Moros. But yeah, I'm like, how are they gonna. If the next book is the one that they need to defeat him in, that makes it a little difficult.
- [65:37]
D
What's the alternative then? I guess that would mean that the next book, they wouldn't. If he's like the number one big bad that goes through the series.
- [65:46]
C
Unless they take care of their own world and they save Umbrathia without taking out Moros.
- [65:53]
D
That's fair. They've got a lot of their own shit to deal with.
- [65:55]
E
Yeah.
- [65:56]
C
So maybe Thatcher will, like, recall who he is and know that he's able to open a portal like that. So he's going to be able to, like, expel Moros's essence back into the void. Or not the void, but the abyss, and then it'll travel elsewhere. And so they're going to, like, have to just find him to take him out, like all the pantheons later.
- [66:22]
E
Well, when Thay's has that vision with Tapestry, part of that is seeing cracks in the realms happening. She's seeing these cracks form between the realms, which didn't sound great. And I wonder if part of this is that there's going to be potentially like this big bad for Realm Blade, but maybe there's an even bigger bad out there and they're all going to maybe have to come together at some point to help each other because of these cracks. Like, they don't want things getting through and affecting, like, you know, which is.
- [66:52]
D
When you would get your endgame.
- [66:54]
E
Yeah, yeah, I want an end game moment. That'd be so cool. Yeah.
- [66:59]
D
Which just means that they'd have to have a mutual. Which also makes a lot of sense because, like, otherwise, I feel like the thread has to go through all of the books in this universe. Right. For it to have been a universe. I feel like the easiest way to say that is probably the Big Bad.
- [67:15]
E
But we need those books quick.
- [67:18]
C
Yeah, it's just, like, tricky because I feel like the best way to defeat him will be if, like, Thaos comes and joins the fight in Realm Blade. But I really don't see that happening before the Ascended too, because we'll need to see their struggle to get to him. Otherwise, like, people who never read the Ascendant are like, who the hell is this chick?
- [67:39]
D
Well, and that's kind of something to keep in mind.
- [67:42]
E
Right?
- [67:42]
D
Like, they are marketing this as. You can read these series, these three, which will be three separate series as their own. Like, how much of the stories can they really keep overlapping without being like, you have to read all of these in this exact release order. Which is not what they're telling people. They're saying, like, you can read the Ascended and then you can go back and read Riftborne and Duskbound. And so that'll be interesting to see too.
- [68:09]
C
Maybe the seven seconds that he will be seen will be the moment that Aether confronts Ophelia, who, if she's the vessel of Moros, will expel her and by opening that rift. Because the rift has to be closed quickly. Yeah. So I think that's gonna be like they're getting rid of her Moros. And then those are the seven seconds where Heron and Thay's will see Thatcher, but they get rid of Moros, send him out. Aethyr is able to stay in Umbra with Fia. And I think that probably makes the most sense to me because it doesn't have Thais Zul or anybody else from the Ascended coming into this realm. But it does have Aether banishing Moros essence without people like, knowing, oh, that's Moros's essence. So I think he's going to open that void. When that void's open, that's when they see those seven seconds. Moros is off in the ether doing who knows what. And then the Ascended 2 will be focusing on taking out Moros and also reconnecting with Aether's Thatcher. And then the other books will come in. I like that. Maybe after that there will be an even bigger bad. Or it'll just be their own life and the pantheon. And maybe it's not. Cause you don't always need a big crossover to happen for the universe to be interconnected. Yeah, yeah. The mass verse is a good example. You don't have a ton of crossing over happening, but you do see a lot of things with the world building that are similar, where you're like, oh, that's from Throne of Glass, that's from Acotar, that's from Crescent City. So I think it could be similar like that with the other books that are coming out. They don't have to cross over. But I do think obviously the Ascended and this Brythian will cross over. Just because it's the same character, it's already crossed over.
- [70:09]
D
I also think that this is what I find most fascinating and probably what a lot of readers are going to immediately kind of want is that reunion. So that's what we're teasing out right now is how do we actually make that happen in a way that might not be RealMBLADE based on what you're saying is the alternative?
- [70:28]
C
I do not think the reunion will be realmblade. I think it will be the ascended. 2 them defeating the bad in Realm Blade will be him opening the portal that allows them to see him for seven seconds. He won't know that unless it's like, what if RealMblade ends with her being like Thatcher? And he's like, wait, what?
- [70:53]
D
Stop. Of course they would do some shit like that too.
- [70:57]
C
They would, but then everyone would be like, what the fuck? Like people who haven't read the Ascended. So they'll be like, if you want to continue his story. But then that also spoils, like, the ending. I mean, we all knew it was Aether, like, pretty immediately, so I don't think it's like a huge spoiler.
- [71:14]
D
But I don't know. There's a ton of people who are having these big reaction videos that not everybody did. You guys are very detail oriented. That was not a shared experience across the board.
- [71:26]
C
So not everyone's as hardcore as us when it comes to this.
- [71:33]
D
I am a little jealous of that experience, though, because that last line, to not know and then being like, what? That's gotta be incredible.
- [71:40]
C
Half of my annotations were like, yeah, that's Aether. That's foreshadowing. That's Aether. I'm Delulu. This is Aether.
- [71:49]
D
And then you were right. I love to see it.
- [71:51]
E
I think I literally had some. That if he turns out not to be Aether, I'd be so annoyed. I think I have some annotations that say that because I was, like, so convinced and I wanted him to be Aether so much. Yeah.
- [72:02]
C
And I was like, oh, that's why Aether can't remember who he is. Like, once we knew that Moros eats memories. And so I was just like, this is 110% him.
- [72:11]
E
But yeah, I think part of it though was I just wanted them to be aether because then I. Because I was like in the very beginning, I was like, if he's not aether, he's dead. Like, there's no way it's one or the other. Because his foreshadowing from the get go was not great. And I was like, like I said.
- [72:28]
D
Chapter one, I had comments in there that was like, yes, I love him. But also it was like, if you kill him, I will riot. Like, this will not be pretty for you.
- [72:37]
C
I knew he wasn't gonna die. I was that convinced that it was him.
- [72:42]
E
I was worried that I had, like delusioned myself into seeing all this stuff that was wrong just because I didn't want him to die.
- [72:52]
C
Yeah, I was waiting for him to pull out those sexy little glasses and use the glasses or something.
- [72:59]
D
Oh, man. Yeah. I can't wait to see those again. If I have anything to do with it, and I do. We will be getting at least one more library soon. Parker and Brie are aware that that is the price. That is my price.
- [73:15]
E
We need it.
- [73:17]
D
It's a requirement.
- [73:18]
E
Do we want to get into this question from the listeners before we move on?
- [73:21]
D
Sure, yeah.
- [73:22]
C
Or do we want to do what you said? We'd put a pin in it and get back to it.
- [73:26]
D
Well, you kind of started touching on it. Right. My overall question really was for trajectory of the rest of the series. We've got Runblade and then we get Ascended book two. And then I think that we just get both books in the last Duology. But I think there also are two floating novellas and I don't know what their plan is. They've definitely told me and I cannot remember off the top of my head right now. I think it's announced. I think they've said this before, but anyways, we've got those floating after, but we know for sure the order is going to be Roamblade, then ascended. So my overall question was like, where do we think, given that everyone is going to be asking or wondering or almost expecting probably this sort of reunion, given that that's where ascended left off. Do we think that's happening in RealMblade? Do we think we're gonna have to await a book and then how do we cope with that if that's the case?
- [74:17]
E
Yeah, yeah, I'm with Kenzie. I don't think it's happening in RealMblade. I think it's happening in book two of the Ascended. Yeah, I need both now.
- [74:25]
C
Yeah. Cause if we get the reunion in RealMBlade, then there's no reason to even have the Ascended Book two. So I think it's gonna happen in the Ascended book, too.
- [74:34]
E
Well, I mean, there's her and Zol's, like, romance and that drama. But I do think, like, yeah, like, it's. I feel like it has to happen in Ascended Book two, but also, I trust their process. So, like, if it happens in RealMBlade, I'm not gonna be disappointed. And I still think book two of Ascended will be great.
- [74:48]
C
Like, there's not no reason. But that's the main conflict that we had left off of. So if the main conflict is Res in a different series, that's tricky. So I just think it makes sense if the reunion happens in the Ascendant book, too.
- [75:03]
D
All I have to say is I don't really care because next book, Rumblade is going to be all about Aether. And that's fine by me. I would love for him to eventually have his memories back. That's something that. My poor baby. But also, I loved him in both realms, and I will continue to love him in any realm that he is in.
- [75:25]
C
So, yeah, good old dramatic irony is we know where he is. We know he's fine. He's getting laid, so everything's okay.
- [75:35]
E
So the important things.
- [75:38]
C
Exactly. He's fine. We can wait.
- [75:41]
D
So we have a quick listener question. Do we think that we met the female mortal child that Zuul saved in the river when he was younger? If not, do we think we'll eventually meet them?
- [75:55]
E
I think it's possible because there was a quote unquote drowning in Riftbourne. So there is a moment where Fia is talking about, like, she had some friends and they were swimming in a river and somebody opened a dam and they, like, were swept away. And she believes that they drowned. She believes that they all drowned.
- [76:17]
C
The Riftborn.
- [76:18]
E
And there's one friend, I believe, that's named Maren Marian. It's like M A R Y E N. I don't know. But the thing is, I don't have a good reason why her friend wouldn't come back and be like, hey, I'm still alive. Like, because she believes they're dead and she's really upset about it, and it's like this traumatizing event for her. So I don't know if something happened to her and then she got stuck somewhere else and couldn't get back to Fia. But there is this weird drowning incident in Riftborn. That's mentioned where these kids are swept away. And Fia sees it, and it's, like, very traumatizing for her. And she, like, names. One of the friend that she names is, like, a female. So I think it's possible.
- [77:00]
D
You think it's the same girl?
- [77:02]
E
I think it's possible, but the only thing I don't have a good reason for is that why wouldn't she come back and be like, hey, I made it out of the river. Somebody pulled me out, and, like, come back and tell her friend that she's okay.
- [77:11]
D
Also, they're in different.
- [77:14]
C
Yeah. They would have to have that, like, primordial power to open up that rift.
- [77:18]
E
I'm just saying.
- [77:20]
D
That is suspicious, though.
- [77:21]
E
Suspicious.
- [77:22]
D
I did also note that I thought it was an interestingly suspicious parallel that they both have these river drowning incidents where, like, Fia can't save someone and then Xul does. And I was like, this feels. I don't know if it's just supposed to be, like, a callback and, like, supposed to just be the flip side of what happened to Fia. I like the idea. I have a hard time being like, okay, well, how would that. That seems, like, intricately messy to try and connect. Like, what role would this girl play? But I do like that. I think it explains why they'd be so similar.
- [78:01]
E
Yeah. Or maybe it's just a sign that, like, there are people kind of people living parallel. Like, there's these parallel universes. Like, maybe people living parallel lives, and there's like, another Marin in another universe. And in that one, she was saved, but in Fia's she wasn't. Which it might be a sign for that, but it's weird because I'm like, there's this weird near drowning incident. And the only person that gets mentioned, like, the only person I think that she names is because there's. I think she said, like, five people in the river, I think. And then Meyerin. I don't know how to say it, but she gets swept away. And I'm like, that's kind of weird. So I think if it's gonna come back, it might have some sort of weird link to this thing. And it's like, yeah, they are in another realm because, like, Zul's dad took him there. And I'm like, maybe his dad has more power than we realize. Or like I said, like, there's, like, these parallel things happening. I don't know. It was weird, though. So I was like, that's the only connection I have. I don't have a great explanation for it. The thing I feel like I have the least explanation for is why she wouldn't just walk back up the riverbank and be like, hey, I made it. Somehow. Somebody pulled me out. She still thinks her friend is dead.
- [79:06]
C
If it's her, I don't think she's in that realm. And that's why she didn't come back. I think she somehow must have teleported to their realm because Zul can't just teleport to their realm. They didn't even know that was a thing. I don't think.
- [79:20]
E
Well, there's a where that there are other realms, but his dad took him somewhere. His dad took him there when he.
- [79:25]
C
Was younger, but he took him to the mortal realm. So I think that if it's the same person, it would be that she somehow had a power that teleported her.
- [79:35]
E
To their realm to, like, a different river.
- [79:38]
C
Yeah.
- [79:38]
E
Yeah.
- [79:39]
C
Like, I don't think that she's still in that realm. If they're alive, if it's the same person that Xul rescued, I think they're now in the ascended universe. I think they're in that mortal world. I don't think that Zul.
- [79:51]
E
Maybe she has a power to travel between realms and she doesn't know it.
- [79:56]
C
Because if Zul has the power to open portals and can travel to, like, the Sprithian world, I think that he would have already done that to go get Thatcher.
- [80:04]
E
Well, but again, I don't think he went there. His dad took him there. So if somebody had the ability, it's his dad.
- [80:08]
C
Yeah, but it, like, it was a mortal girl, so I think. Yeah, I think it was, like, their mortal world, but.
- [80:16]
E
Yeah, but it's weird, though. I'm like, I. Weird parallel. I feel like somehow this is gonna be important.
- [80:23]
C
It is a weird parallel, but I think if it's that person specifically, they traveled to the ascended world, I don't think that they existed.
- [80:31]
E
They somehow teleported themselves.
- [80:33]
C
Yeah, I don't think they would exist in Riftborn anymore.
- [80:38]
E
I mean, but that would mean that there is a person in their mortal realm with the ability to get them between realms.
- [80:44]
C
That could be useful. I do think we probably met this person, and if not, we will meet them. Because I know when they were editing down this book, they were having difficulty removing a lot of things, and they're like, everything's important, so everything that they kept in is important. And I feel like we have.
- [81:05]
D
Where does that come from? Did they say that in our interview?
- [81:08]
C
Maybe not in the interview. Maybe it was like in DMS because at the time it was like 800 pages and they're like, would you read a book that's 800? And I was like, well, I'd read your book because it's like, I know it's good, but it's like for like a first time reader. And Parker was like, yeah, we're just having like a hard time like editing it down. So like, I know that anything that they kept is like there for a reason and important. And Sewell's not that old. I want to say he was in the last trial that happened. So that happens every 10 years. That mortal is definitely still alive. I don't know if we know that person, but I think they'll come back.
- [81:49]
D
I like the idea of it. I think it served a purpose in giving Zuul some, like, humanizing him a bit. So it served for some character development. So I could see it not being significant and still standing on its own for why it was left in. But I do think it could be really, really interesting. And I love it when things like this do come back to where it's like, oh, we do end up that person. So hopefully that is the case. But I don't know that I am convinced that it is.
- [82:16]
C
Because if it was like 10 years ago, then Thais would have been what, 16? So I mean, she would have remembered like if she saw Zula. So it's not her. We know she has a boyfriend. We don't really know if she has any like girlfriends. They didn't really like mention anybody. But I don't think it would be like, it's not like an adult that she's met. It would be someone that's younger than her or the same age if it was a mortal child. So I don't know.
- [82:49]
E
I mean, I just think the importance of it though would be to like show that somebody has the ability to get them between realms.
- [82:57]
D
I think that could be a really cool tool for them to play with.
- [83:00]
E
Yeah. And maybe he was young enough that he didn't even realize. Like, maybe all the mortal realms just kind of seemed the same to him. And maybe he didn't even realize like where he was, that he wasn't in the same realm. Like, he may have not even known because he may have wasn't asking enough questions. He's just going wherever his dad takes him. So if either his dad took him somewhere and his dad or someone somehow has the ability to get them into different realms, or like you said, that person somehow accidentally took themselves out of Their own realm to another realm. Which would mean that there's a person now in Thayer's realm that can get her back to Thatcher.
- [83:39]
C
Yeah, I don't personally think it's that person. I just think that there's just so many variables there. And if it's them transporting to another realm, why would they transport into another river and still be drowning?
- [83:52]
D
Well, that's weird.
- [83:54]
E
That's what's weird to me. That's what makes me think it's probably like, if it's the ability, it's Zul's dad. But I think we have this parallel. These two events that match up up that happened in different realms. What's the point of it other than to maybe potentially show that someone has the ability to get them from one realm to another?
- [84:11]
C
I guess it could be because they were about to die and he was saving their souls. So maybe his dad has the ability. Like, he gets all of the souls from all realms.
- [84:23]
E
Why would they be there in the first place, though? Well, I don't understand what you're saying.
- [84:27]
C
Because I think isn't the context of Zul saving the child that she's like, oh, is it hard sometimes to, like, see these deaths happening? And he's like, sometimes I save them. So I think he interfered. So maybe it was like their soul was.
- [84:41]
D
I think the point was that his dad didn't want him interfering and he was upset that he did, so he, like, had to. I have the page. Okay. So the point is, basically he's saying, like, I did save this. This child. And she's like, so what? Like, why is that special? And he's like, because I wasn't supposed to interfere. He goes on to say, my father would have considered it inappropriate interference in mortal affairs. And she says, you risked his disapproval to save a child. And he says, the paperwork would have been tedious.
- [85:15]
E
Yeah.
- [85:15]
D
Which is actually really funny.
- [85:17]
C
Yeah. So maybe I'm really sad. Yeah. I still don't think it's the same person from Riftborn personally, but I do think they could come back. Like the person that he actually saved.
- [85:27]
D
In summation, we don't know. Could be cool. All right, I have a couple questions just to circle back to because we never got our realm Blade theories that we discussed in Riftborne and Duskbound on an episode. They were only in our, like, recorded book club. It's on our Patreon, which, for the.
- [85:47]
C
Record, I had a theory that Aether was a fallen God and I was 110% correct.
- [85:52]
D
You were close. You were close. Definitely.
- [85:54]
C
Well, he is a God.
- [85:55]
D
How we got there was not expected. But you're right, he's God. And I think that was the moment we were like, oh, shit, this universe could be really cool. But I don't think any of us expected the way in which we ended up getting the ascended and how we got there. So I'm wanting to ask, do you have any theories that you had brought up then that you kind of. That changed or that you want to bring up now? For the record, after the ascended, really.
- [86:23]
C
That was my main one, but I just remembered that the title of the book is RealMBlade. So let me real quick go to my duskbound things to see what that was, because maybe that had something to do with his sword. Could go between realms or something. Please.
- [86:39]
D
She's called the Realm Blade.
- [86:40]
C
Oh, she is called the Realm Blade.
- [86:42]
D
She's called the Rhomblade. He's called the World Walker. Realm Crasher.
- [86:46]
C
Okay, never mind.
- [86:48]
D
So I remember one. You thought that maybe Ma wasn't really dead. You both said that. You both gave me a spark of hope. Do you still think that's the case, or do you think that she's dead?
- [87:01]
E
I think it's possible she is alive. Or that she didn't die the way that they think she did.
- [87:09]
D
Okay. Thoughts and feelings related to that about Lark and the direction and how he plays a role into all of this.
- [87:17]
C
I don't trust him. Just like I don't trust Marx. Just throwing that out there.
- [87:20]
E
Again, I don't care. I love Marx. She can do no wrong. But Laric, I think Laric is going to be a really interesting, complex character. And I don't know that he's bad in the sense that he's bad because he does things for bad reasons. Because I think Lark has his own moral code and does things based on what he thinks is right and what he thinks is true. I don't necessarily think that makes him a bad person, but I don't think he is believing of all of the information yet. Like, I think he's going to need more convincing. But I do think Laric ability is somehow tied because, like, him and Shavor have very similar ability. Like, Shavor's ability is strategy, and l' aric's ability is to be able to perceive what Pitimone's about to do next. And so I think we're gonna find out that they're also like. That their powers also came from the same pool.
- [88:14]
C
That's interesting. Back to the same pool, because I was reading that Passage from Duskbound while you were talking when they're in the cave. Another reason why I think Fia is descended from the same primordial. The ghost was saying. Such fascinating coloring you have, my dear. In all my years of documenting the realm's oddities, I never encountered a Kalfur. That's probably said wrong with hair. Like Starlight and Duh. Rift Jamar. I had the hardest time pronouncing the name of the place because I kept wanting to say Rift Dreamer. I kept wanting to say Dreamer. So go figure. Of course, they're, like, descended from them. Like, it's so obvious. Anyway.
- [89:03]
D
Okay. I really like that, actually.
- [89:04]
C
I just had that moment again when he's like, your hair is like Starlight. It's like, yeah, because that's what she inherited from her mother and from Rift Jamar. But I kept always wanting to say Rift Dreamer. Dream magic. What was the question?
- [89:22]
D
You just threw me off. That was. I like that. Good catch. I love that. It's something that's standing out to me right now. So, like, when we do eventually get these worlds to merge, we have very interesting characters that are like our side characters. What do you think, dynamic wise we're gonna get or see play out? If you have any thoughts at all between our, like, key side characters in all of our realms. Right. Well, and our regions. So you've got the first found family in Riftborn. You've got a found family in Dustbound. And now we've got. I could say it's smaller found family, but these side characters, like Marx in Ascended, like, what do you think about that again?
- [90:01]
C
I just. I do not trust Laric. I do not trust Marx. And I'm forgetting the name of the guy that was in Fia's found family, but he was starting to kind of be hesitant towards her. So I could see him also in Riftborn.
- [90:18]
D
In Riftborn, is he the character.
- [90:22]
C
I think he had the Earth ability or, like, he controlled, like, the plants? Mmm.
- [90:27]
D
Yeah.
- [90:27]
C
He kind of was starting to distance himself a little bit towards her towards the end, but. Yeah, I just thought that that last altercation with Laric, when Aether was in the room and she was being attacked by the woman with, like, the poisonous blood, and I apologize for forgetting her name, but he shouldn't have known they were there. And he like it just, like, the way that it all added up, I just remember being like, this is weird. He shouldn't have been there. He shouldn't have known. And the way that his ability works and Fia just was like, yeah, you're right. Your ability doesn't work on me. And it's like, well, when did we ever get that proven? Like, that could just be something. He says to get her to trust him, but I don't know. I. I just. You break my trust once, and I don't trust you again. And that's just one of those characters where I'm all about Aether now, so.
- [91:17]
D
Well, two things can be true at the same time. Yeah.
- [91:21]
E
Carly, I don't think I have anything.
- [91:23]
D
Else that's actually really shocking to me.
- [91:29]
C
We've both said our piece.
- [91:31]
E
I think I'd have to reread Riftborn and Dustbound to talk any more on Dustbound other than what I have so far. I definitely think it's gonna be a really interesting reread. After reading the Ascended, though.
- [91:43]
D
It's gonna be really good.
- [91:45]
C
Oh, yeah. I'm, like, really excited to reread it soon.
- [91:48]
D
The one thing that I will ask, because in our book club, we were really hung up on this, and I want to see if anything changes. Now, the deal that Fia made in the Void, I really just want to give you the platform to reiterate your theory, because I thought that was the coolest thing, is, like, what we think is going on with her or the lack thereof. If we don't have thoughts on that.
- [92:11]
E
That deal's gonna bite her in the ass real hard and real blatant.
- [92:15]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [92:16]
E
I don't know what it's gonna want.
- [92:17]
D
It's gonna be real.
- [92:18]
E
Not great, though, for her, potentially, for Aether, but, yeah, not gonna be good.
- [92:26]
D
No.
- [92:27]
C
I don't like to think about that deal.
- [92:31]
D
It's too stressful. Yeah.
- [92:34]
E
You know, it's like, whenever, like, you're reading a Fae book and they make some blood oath or something, and you're like, I don't do it.
- [92:42]
C
Every time.
- [92:43]
E
I'm like, this is gonna not go well for you. It's like that. I'm like, oh, God. And it's just like this harbinger out there just floating, and you're like, oh, no, it's not gonna go well. I'm stressed about it.
- [92:56]
C
Me, too.
- [92:58]
D
All right, final thoughts. I'm so, so happy that the reading community is finally becoming as obsessed as we are with this universe.
- [93:09]
E
It's so good.
- [93:10]
D
It's so refreshing to be like, yes, I've been scre into the Void for months about how good Riftborne and Duskbound are. You have to read it. You have to read it. And Ascended is just opening that up to so many new readers, including the ones that are listening. Thank you guys for joining us with our spiraling over these incredible books. I'm just so thrilled that they're getting the attention that they so deserve. Yeah, guys, I've seen people call this the next SJM Universe and I think that that compliment is just, just insane. And it's, you know, I love it when people are so creative and we see that demonstrated so gorgeously with this universe. I keep wanting to say series. There's multiple series.
- [93:57]
E
Yeah, multiple series. Yeah, no, I'm really enjoying it.
- [94:02]
C
It's delicious. It tickles the brain and I'm glad that it's getting the recognition it deserves. And I hope more people continue to read it and join us in the theorizing or just making content online. I love seeing people make content for it.
- [94:19]
E
Yes.
- [94:19]
D
Aether in his slutty little glasses.
- [94:22]
C
Yeah.
- [94:22]
D
Yeah. I can't wait to get my shirt in. It's gonna be so cute. All right, speaking of, if you do have theories outside of the ones that we talked about today, or if you want to expand on any or have any feelings about our theories, please feel free to reach out to us or join our discord. We yap in there. We've got ascended and you know, as for the channels specifically for that. So welcome.
- [94:48]
E
Yeah.
- [94:49]
D
Please join the conversation. Yes. And that wraps up our theories episode on the Ascended and the Sundered Realms universe. Thank you so much for listening. Join us for our next episode where we are answering readers biggest ascended questions Special shout out again to Parker and Bri. Thank you for writing this incredible story and thank you for believing in us.
- [95:13]
E
If you are looking for even more Romanasy content, we also have three completed seasons of Empyrean chapter by chapter, Deep dive coverage, a current Brimstone prep and recovery season, author interviews including one with the Ascended authors Bri Greenwich and Parker Lennox, and more.
- [95:26]
C
You can find more info about our previous and upcoming prep seasons, our episode and events, calendar, author interviews, our contact form and more on our website dearfantasyreader.com also linked down in the Show Notes.
- [95:38]
E
Notes. Join us over on Patreon where you can access all of our regular episodes ad free a day early and in full video plus extras like PDF, annotations, shout outs, bonus resources and more. You'll find our Patreon link in the Show Notes along with all the ways you can support the show. Whether that's joining a tear, subscribing, leaving a review, or just sharing us with your fellow Romantasy readers.
- [95:58]
C
We'd love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, tag us on Instagram, or come fangirl with us over your favorite fantasy books in our free Discord Chat. And don't forget to follow us on social media where we release book guides, author updates, our current reads, clips from episodes, pod updates, and more.
- [96:14]
D
Until next time, dearest fantasy readers, prepare for the answers we can provide as we continue our journey through the Sundered Realms universe. Yay. Who said 30 minutes? Who said this would be a 30 minute episode?