← Dear Fantasy Reader
Dear Fantasy Reader
Ep. 3 Onyx Storm Deep Dive: Prologue-Ch. 4 | Easter Eggs, Theories & Key Moments
01:43:16
Join your favorite Quest Squadmates—Hannah, Kinsey, and Karly—as they dive deep into the Prologue-Ch 4 of Rebecca Yarros' captivating fantasy, Onyx Storm! First, they'll journey into the Archives Vault for a quick chapter recap before...
Loading summary
Transcript457 lines
- [00:00]
Aaron Manke
Darwin would approve.
- [00:01]
Hannah
T Mobile's network has adapted to so many locales because T Mobile helps keep.
- [00:05]
Carly
You connected from the heart of Portland.
- [00:07]
Aaron Manke
To right where you are on America's largest 5G network.
- [00:10]
Hannah
Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months. You are no dummy, but you're kind.
- [00:33]
Carly
Of acting like one. You used to crush it in school, outsmarting opponents on the field, and now, well, you're still smart, but not exactly challenging yourself. You could be advancing nuclear engineering in the world's most powerful Navy. You were born for it. So make the smart choice. You can be smart or you can be nuke smart. Become a nuclear engineer@navy.com nukesmart America's Navy.
- [00:58]
Aaron Manke
Forged Are you a lover of all things dark and creepy, of graveyards and monsters, haunted houses and spooky legends? Then welcome to Lore. I'm Aaron Manke. For close to 10 years now, I've been sharing history's darkest stories with millions of listeners around the world. Tune in each week as we explore the folklore, ghost tales and local legends that deliver the chills you're looking for. Learn more and subscribe today over@lorepodcast.com all right, ready?
- [01:32]
Carly
Let's do this because it's fun. Damn it.
- [01:36]
Hannah
That's totally going into bloopers. Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast, where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.
- [01:56]
Kinsey
I'm Kinsey.
- [01:57]
Carly
And I'm Carly.
- [01:59]
Hannah
Join us as we take light into the world of the Empyrean series, diving deep into Onyx Storm, breaking down characters, scenes, foreshadowing and lore, fangirling over Shadow Daddies building theories as we go, and more.
- [02:16]
Carly
With that content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everything Empyrean series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarros has given us. So if you haven't read 4th Wing, Iron Flame and Onyx Storm in its entirety, go do that and we will be here waiting when you are done.
- [02:33]
Kinsey
Also, due to the nature of these books, this podcast is rated R in content and language.
- [02:37]
Hannah
As Rebecca Yarros says, readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please Take note and prepare to face the storm. We have dragons to ride. We have made it to our very first Onyx Storm chapters by chapters. Deep Dive Episode Yay.
- [03:03]
Carly
In the words of Taylor Swift, it's been a long time coming. Onyx Storm is an incredibly information packed book and we've taken our time to craft a Deep Dive podcast season that guides you step by step through its most intriguing moments. Our goal is to break down the most commonly asked about scenes, unpack the biggest clues for the series, and of course, fangirl over the story and characters we all love while being mindful of your time. We could talk about this book forever, but we're focusing on the most important moments and theories to keep each episode meaningful and exciting.
- [03:32]
Hannah
So here is how each episode of our Onyx Storm Deep Dive season will be structured. After our usual housekeeping updates, including our star review of the week, we'll kick things off with a recap summary of key details from the chapters we're covering for the week. Then we'll dive into our Discussion and Analysis section, highlighting the most intriguing plot points, insightful moments, and anything that needs extra explanation. From there, we'll share our favorite moments, quotes and characters for the week before heading into our Foreshadowing and Easter Egg section where we connect the dots across the series. And finally, we'll wrap things up with our top theories. If at any point you would like to skip ahead or jump around, no worries. You can find the timestamps for each section down in our show notes.
- [04:24]
Carly
We are starting a new tradition. This week's Star of Navarre Award for review that Made our Hearts Soar goes to Swung70 who wrote. Love it. So excited to continue this podcast. The hosts are informed, charming and gracious. They are also wicked smart and I'm thrilled to have this podcast.
- [04:40]
Hannah
Aw, thanks.
- [04:42]
Carly
It's so nice. We love reading these reviews. If you are also enjoying the show, please consider leaving us a review. It's a small thing that makes a big difference.
- [04:50]
Hannah
It really does. Alrighty. First objective breaking into the Archives vault for a summary report of the prologue through chapters four with our squad mate Kinsey.
- [05:04]
Kinsey
Onyx Storm picks up immediately after the events of Iron Flame. Following the battle of Basgaeth, Violet follows Xaden to Jack's cell where she overhears their conversation. Jack insists that Zaden will eventually lose control, killing Violet or delivering her to their sage. Violet and Andarna vow to do whatever it takes to cure Zaden and find Andarna's lost den. Violet enlists the one person she can trust to cover Zeden's tracks. Imogen. Two weeks pass and the writers are still hunting Venon. Meanwhile, Violet prepares to meet with the Cenarium, the kingdom's ruling aristocracy, who have convened to negotiate peace with Pyromiel and discuss the return of the Eretian riders seeking pardons for leaving Navarre. The weather continues to worsen in the aftermath of General Sorengel's death, and during patrols, Aytrim and Riddick, distracted by an argument and low visibility, nearly crash into Violet and Tarn. Tensions are high. When they return from patrol, non new Venon were found there is ongoing hostility between Baskiath and Orishan riders. Violet's squad wants to return to Orisha and start the search for Andarna's den, and Imogen, Bodhi and Garruk are trying to meddle in Violet and Zaden's love life via sleeping arrangements. During a visit with Sawyer in the infirmary, the squad is attacked by Venon disguised as scribes who have infiltrated Basgaeth. Violet, Ree, and Riddick intercept what seems to be a rescue attempt for none other than Jack fucking Barlow. We briefly see Theophany, a Venon maven with a silver braid who quickly disappears after seeing Violet. Our Shadow Daddy saves the day alongside Garruk, killing the remaining Venon. To Violet's relief, there is no longer a red ring around Zaden's eyes. After the attack, Zaden finally lets Violet through his shields. She learns that Sigale isn't speaking to Zaden and that he believes he is no longer whole. Violet reassures him that he is, believing his love for her proves otherwise, but Zaden reveals that he can now sense other Venon. Violet meets with the Cenarium and fails miserably, which only leaves her secret plan with Tokarys as a way to negotiate for peace. Instead of leading and choosing her own task force to search for Andarna's den, Violet is told by General Melgren that she'll be joining a group led by Professor Grady, her RSC instructor. The next morning, Violet and Zaden are intimate for the first time, but he momentarily loses control. To nobody's surprise, he channels just enough to leave marks on the bedpost, but not enough to bring the red rings back to his eyes. As they are dressing for the day, they are confronted by a hallway full of people. Brannon and Brannon and Llewellyn have arrived to meet with Zaden before the next Scenarium meeting. Imogen, Bodhi, and Garak are also waiting for them under the pretense of making sure they got enough sleep, but were secretly checking to make sure that Zaden hadn't accidentally killed Violet. Myrrah interrupts having returned early from Orisha and reveals that Trissa, an Orishan Council member, has found a way to alter runes without destroying them. This sparks hope that the Wardstones could be altered to allow fliers to channel magic within Nevarre's borders. Meera confronts Brennan about allowing Violet to go off on dangerous Quest Squad adventures beyond the wards. She reveals that the Orion Wards will fail in only six months, making those adventures even more vital.
- [08:11]
Hannah
Grab your leathers, Quest Squad, as we are officially back at Baz Gaieth War College, diving right into our analysis and discussion section, where we'll walk through the most important and interesting plot points and moments in this section of chapters, starting with a really positive note, guys, we're going to start with Violet's state of mind.
- [08:36]
Carly
It's a lot of grief.
- [08:37]
Hannah
Grief. Grief, yeah.
- [08:39]
Carly
Yep, a lot of grief. It's all piling up. She's stuffing it all down. She's not taking the time to deal with it. To be fair, she feels like she doesn't have the time to deal with it.
- [08:52]
Hannah
I think she even says that. That if she wallowed in every thing that has happened to her, she wouldn't do anything else. Something along those lines. I felt like that was really representative of how she is. Not just in the first set of chapters, but this is a constant throughout, which we saw really initiate with Liam. Right. She just started shoving it into a box, and then it doesn't really break until toward the end with Andarna. But this is where we're seeing that just compound and it's.
- [09:26]
Carly
Yeah, I think it's an interesting parallel because she also has a tendency to shove her chronic pain into a box, which is kind of a common technique when you have chronic pain. And I think it can become a default for emotional pain as well, as opposed to physical pain. And that's not healthy to, like, block it off. So I find it interesting that she uses the same technique. I think it's. At least for me, it's common. I have chronic pain, so I understand why she's doing that. And I. I do find it interesting that it's written that way. It feels very relatable.
- [10:00]
Hannah
Well, it's not like she's really given the opportunity much. She's not wrong. When is she supposed to take the time to process it in a healthy way? She's literally attending a war college in the midst of A continental war. And now she's finding out possibly beyond the continent. And she has all this responsibility. Let's not even mention the responsibility she leaves off the book with on her shoulders as like one of the only weapons they can use against Venon. Her dragon is one of the only potential solutions. And it's not even the weight of like Navarre and hopefully all Venon. It's the love of her life.
- [10:39]
Carly
Yeah.
- [10:39]
Hannah
So who would not be in denial? She just lost her mom, like all these people in her life and technically Zayden is one of them. She. He's still in front of her right this second.
- [10:54]
Carly
Yeah. It's like she's watching herself slowly lose him. And there's like this immense pressure on her to be the person that figures out how to solve these continent wide problems that people who have been in charge for decades haven't figured out how to solve. And now so much of it is on her. She doesn't have time to deal with this grief. And now she also has this deep determination to save Zaden.
- [11:22]
Hannah
Go Violet. That would be the same. I know there's a lot of critique about how she just like zones in on that goal for the book. First of all, who wouldn't for Zaddy? I don't. I. Maybe I'm just like, that's just the romantic in me. But I don't blame her a single second. I don't know.
- [11:40]
Carly
Well, I don't know if it's helpful for her at this point to live in the possibility of the future that he will be gone. He's there now. And if she can focus on saving him, focus on that, like, and I understand why she's focused on that because the other possibility doesn't sound survivable to her. So of course she's gonna focus on the one that feels survivable, which is keeping Zaden.
- [12:03]
Hannah
I will say her hope gave me hope. And so I was gonna ask you guys. Cause I actually felt like this was the perfect comparison of the two ships that you could be on. Either you're an Andarna or you're a Taryn. So Taryn is like, no go with this. He is supporting Violet for the sake of Violet. But when it comes to Zaden calling him Dark One, saying he's like, his soul is dead. He's. He's to the point of no return, essentially is like, what is all that Taryn had to say for the set of chapters and beyond? Or you're in Darna, who like, I think Violet insinuated she could tell There was hesitancy from Indarna, but the moment that was voiced, Violet shut it down and was like, I just need you to be on my side. And Indarna was. She was just like, you know what? That's your man. I get it. They made a vow together, like, to whatever end, they would find this cure. So were you at this point in the book? I'm not asking you after the book, Kinsey. I already know what you're gonna say with that.
- [13:02]
Kinsey
I know I was giggling to myself because you said to whatever end. But for a majority of the book, unfortunately, I was a tearn. I think I thought that there was a chance for him up until, like, 15, 20% through the book. And then I started to be like, oh, like, he keeps the moment that he channeled again. Like, not just with the headboard, but when he flipped out because of Violet and he ended up channeling when he was on a mission, I was like, I don't really see this going the way that we want it to. So I kind of started accepting that maybe there's not really a cure. But I don't know. I don't want to say he's dead to me. I love Zaden still, but I just.
- [13:42]
Hannah
Even though you have. I want it on the record. We probably have it on video somewhere.
- [13:48]
Kinsey
We probably already do have it on record. But he did lose part of his soul. And I think Taryn has difficulty accepting that because it endangers his mate. And even though we want Zaden to get better, which I still do, he could potentially bring a bunch of other people down with him.
- [14:06]
Hannah
Well, and we see that happening. Harley, were you an Indarna or a Taryn at this point in the book, or did that shift at any point?
- [14:14]
Carly
So I think in general, not just in the book, but in general in life, I think I'm an Indarna to the person who needs support. And when not in front of them, I'm the teran, like, in the background, like, just preparing for the worst case scenario. Cause I'm such a preparer. So I'm like, yeah, girl, you've got this. I'm gonna help you. And, like, when she's not around, like, okay, so what are we gonna do if this all goes terribly wrong? Like that. That seems to be how I operate. And what I found really interesting in this, actually, is that, you know, in fourth Wing, Zaden is the one that's like, you can't focus on hope. You've got to focus on the probabilities, not the possibilities. And Violet's very much hope and Zaden's very much the actual probabilities. And that's what I've seen in Taryn and Andarna as well. So it's mirrored there too. Violet needs the hope, so I'm glad that she has Andarna at this point, but I understand why Taryn is like, we've gotta prepare for worst case scenario. Like, we gotta start being realistic about where this could possibly end. So I guess I'm a little bit of both. What about you?
- [15:22]
Hannah
Well, I was gonna say, would it surprise either of you that I was 100% Andarna through 90% of this book?
- [15:30]
Kinsey
Not at all.
- [15:30]
Hannah
It was not. I mean, I think that. I don't know, I tend to have that. I wouldn't even say it's like optimistic, but it was just the wanting, the light at the end of the tunnel. The wanting, the hope, ironically, is what I said. I walked away without from this book. So Taryn was preparing me and I just wasn't listening. So. And Darna. And I was convinced by Violet and Darna's dynamic and their determination. And I was like, no, they're gonna. They might not solve it. Now. I didn't expect a cure in the third book, but I expected progress toward it. And so that's why I think that the failures after failure was like, oh, I don't know if I. This is gonna be my favorite part of their journey. I'm a Book five girl, so I should have known. But I did find Taryn to be a lot in the first part of the book. I was like, you're being too pessimistic. It's not working for Violet or me. But then he ended up being right. So it's like, can't critique him much, you know? Yeah.
- [16:30]
Carly
I mean, and there's like, I think a kinder way to tell people, like, we've got to focus on, like, we got to be prepared for like this eventuality. But that being said, like, Taryn's not a person. He's like a hundred plus year old dragon that's like trained for battle. Like, I feel like the way he acts is because of who he is and like, it's also why we love him.
- [16:53]
Hannah
I think we saw more of that in this book than we had. I'd listened to a lot of Rebecca's interviews where she would talk about him being this like, grumpy old man is how she call him. Like her. Her bulldog would just be annoyed by anyone else in its vicinity. Is who Taryn's based off of. And so I was like, yeah, but he's still a cheerleader at heart for Violet. But that was not as much in this one. And that sort of separated into two distinct categories with Andarna and Taryn, which, in contrast, worked really well until we don't have Andarna. And then it's like. Which, again, might have been a foreshadowing as well.
- [17:31]
Kinsey
But even with him not liking Zaden, he was still training to prepare to take Andarna with them, and he was still Team Violet, but he just made it very clear he was not happy about it.
- [17:42]
Carly
Yeah.
- [17:43]
Hannah
Which good for him for communicating.
- [17:45]
Carly
Yeah. I will say that, like, I think his trust in Violet's instincts and, like, her plan is commendable. Even though he is very much has no trust or faith left in Zaden, who he was always iffy about, which maybe now he's just feeling very much validated in that feeling of being like, yeah, I was always not sure about him. And yeah, I was right. And now with Violet, there's a little bit of I told you so attitude, which I could use less of. But I'm glad he's also preparing them for what they need to be prepared.
- [18:20]
Hannah
For, which makes sense. And to be fair, Zaden is putting his mate in danger. Not just his mate, his Rider. And so it's like all their lives are at risk here, not just Zaden's soul. So I cannot blame Taryn. I think it was entirely in character. It was just I wasn't prepared. I was still fully Andarna.
- [18:40]
Carly
So that tracks for you though, Hannah?
- [18:43]
Hannah
No, it does. So I want to talk about Andarna for a second because just right off the bat, she is confirming that her Dragonfire did in fact scorch and kill a Venon at the end of Iron Flame. And Violet even comments that she noticed it, but, like, didn't think anything of it. Am I incorrect on that?
- [19:03]
Kinsey
No, that happened.
- [19:04]
Hannah
Yeah, that's. Anyways, so Andarna is kind of, like, trying to make sense of it herself. And she's explaining that potentially her shifting the color of her scales is somehow changing her magic. And Taryn sort of just brushes it off as saying that it could have been a one time, like, first Dragon Breath is the hottest sort of situation. I don't necessarily think I buy that, because why have it happened? Why even mention that? Like, she was just about to bite the Venon anyway. Like, there's things, there's other situations that could have killed that Venon at the end of iron flame. So I'm wondering if you walked away from the book thinking that Irids can in fact burn Venon with their dragonfire or if that was a one time thing. And I do want to point out that Andarda does later try and burn Theophany and it doesn't work. So if she is able to do it, is she only able to do it when she's shifting colors, like I trying to make sense of it?
- [20:04]
Kinsey
I think it is a magic that only the Irids can do. I don't think Taryn is correct. I don't think that it's only because it was her hottest first fire. I think what happened with Theophany was that she just was not shifting her scales. Or maybe because she was also. Was she distance wielding in that moment? Like, she just like got out of there, like really quickly. So.
- [20:26]
Hannah
No, she taunts Andarna about it. She was like, do you feel better now? And then she gets cut off by something going on, but she had long enough to be standing there.
- [20:35]
Kinsey
Yeah, but you also have to think too, like, Theophany was seeking out Andarna specifically because she's an Irid. And I feel like we never really got a full explanation as to why. And so part of me is just still holding on. Like, we know that they have special magic, and I do think that that's part of it and that all Irides can, but maybe it just has to be a very specific situation where everything has to go right for it to happen. If that makes sense. Yeah.
- [21:02]
Carly
Yeah. I definitely walked away from the book thinking, and Darna definitely can at least injure Venon with her fire, because it wasn't clear if she actually killed the venom with her fire, because she said they blistered, but then she bit its head off. So I'm like, well, did the fire actually kill the Venon, or does it just injure them long enough so that they can get close enough to them to bite their head off?
- [21:26]
Hannah
Technically, that venon shouldn't have been able to bleed. But can they buy dragon teeth? Do we know that? I don't think that's the case. So maybe it just weakened the Venon enough.
- [21:36]
Carly
Well, I definitely think that they can behead them if they can get close enough. I think most dragons don't because they don't want their hands to get on them. But I definitely came away from the book thinking she definitely can. And I think it's like Kinsey said, it was like she was shifting her color at the time she did it. And I think there's something about when Anderna is in her iridescent state, which I think happens when she shifts colors, like, briefly. Between that, there is this moment where she can use that to either alter the Venin, so that way she can injure them, or alter something about her so she can use her fire against them. I'm not sure which it is, but I definitely think she can. She just has to learn how.
- [22:17]
Hannah
I think it's interesting, the idea that. Because the whole point of the Irids is that they can bend magic, right? So when they're going iridescent, they're in the process of bending magic. I guess that's what's activating her being in that mental headspace where she is bending and wielding magic purely to be able to do it then. But I also think it's interesting if you consider that she could just be bending the magic of the Vennon with her fire, because you're saying, like, maybe it's like, taking it away or weakening it in that moment enough to have killed it and bitten its head off and stuff to make that possible.
- [22:51]
Carly
Well, because she had said that she thought that she had changed the venom, that there was something about her magic that changed the venom. So I think that that is likely, and I think it is something about her magic specifically. But I do think it has something to do with her tapping into whatever that iridescent magic is. And maybe it's just a combination of all of the colors at the same time and her being activated, because there's, you know, there's a lot of themes of color in these books. And so I'm thinking that there's some. Gonna be some sort of needle threaded through that.
- [23:25]
Hannah
Well, she's also called the One Combined, so I guess when she's activated, she's all colors at once, which I think is really intriguing.
- [23:32]
Carly
It is. So that's my thoughts on it. But I do wish we would have gotten a little more information on it in this book.
- [23:39]
Hannah
Yeah, I think it does make a lot of sense that there'd be some limitations put on and Darna being able to just kill any Venon with fire at any point, you know, to make it to where she has to be shifting, because otherwise she would have just killed Theophany and, what, the last, like, hundred or so pages would not have existed, which probably would have been great for Xaden, but.
- [24:01]
Carly
Yeah, well, and I'm guessing there is some sort of limitation there, that there's some sort of vulnerability that is created perhaps, and that's maybe going to be a limitation on it. So it would be interesting to know, though. Wish we would have gotten more answers on it.
- [24:14]
Hannah
Book four.
- [24:15]
Carly
Book four.
- [24:16]
Hannah
We hope you're going to hear that a lot this season.
- [24:19]
Carly
Yeah.
- [24:21]
Kinsey
Moving on. Imogen was summoned to memory wipe Jack. So you guys already know I love Imogen, and so I was stoked that one. We partially got to see her use her signet, and Violet trusted Imogen enough to bring her into the inner circle. Now we have confirmation that only Violet, Zaden, Bodhi, Garak, and Imogen know about Zaden turning Venom, which is important to pay attention to as we try to figure out who the new brother is by the end of the book.
- [24:50]
Hannah
So add her to the list. Yeah, add it to the list. But I think it's also. It's not even just like her bringing her into the inner circle, but she specifically said she's the only person that could know the truth in its entirety and also prioritize Zaden's best interests, which is important to keep in mind for understanding the end and what Imogen may or may not know about what Violet did that she had Imogen erase. So add that to the list. But I also. I just really love that this part of having this introduced again in the first couple pages was setting us up for the end by reminding us what Imogen is capable of. And I'm so glad she was utilized. Even though I don't like how it was utilized in the end, I do like that it was utilized. And I really liked getting to see it on Paige.
- [25:44]
Kinsey
Me too.
- [25:45]
Carly
I really loved seeing Violet trust her so much and seeing that evolution of that relationship and their whole relationship, really, just through the whole book, where she is very blunt and honest with Imogen and she can be that way with her and Imogen still accepts her, and they are still close and they are still friends and they still trust each other. And I just appreciate that relationship that they have so much. And I'm really glad that she had Imogen in this book. I think she really needed her. I think Imogen was for her this book the way Rhee was in Fourth Wing. She really needed her in this book.
- [26:21]
Hannah
Which really surprised me. I was not expecting to not get a lot of re. Like, we're not going to be talking much about her this season. Not to the end, to be fair.
- [26:31]
Carly
We don't even get a lot of Imogen in this book either. But the bit that we do get is just you can really see how much trust and faith there is. In each other. And I just really thought that that was really well written and brought across really well in this book.
- [26:47]
Hannah
Me too. We love Imogen.
- [26:49]
Carly
We do. We are such Imogen fangirls.
- [26:52]
Hannah
She's such a good character.
- [26:53]
Carly
She is.
- [26:54]
Kinsey
I just need her to make it to the end.
- [26:56]
Hannah
Yeah. Okay, so we're going to take a step back here and set the scene of what is going on at Bisgaeth, because that's pretty much what these first chapters are. Is so much going on all around this war college. So we're jumping two weeks later, already a time jump, and they're hunting venon. They've killed 31 total after this battle at Bestgaeth. And Zayden Zaddy killed 17, unfortunately, because he can now sense other Venin. And that's the moment I should have been like, this is probably going to be, like, a bigger deal than you want it to be than he has been. Yeah, that's. That's. It's badass. But it's really fucking sad.
- [27:42]
Carly
Mm.
- [27:43]
Kinsey
At first I thought it was just Sigail being spiteful and being like, look, I'm gonna hunt down all of these venom and I'm gonna kill them and show you that I can do this to you if you ever cross me. But then later, just like two chapters later, we found out, oh, it was because he can sense them. But at first I was like, it's Sigail. She's angry. She is hunting these Venn down.
- [28:03]
Hannah
She is mad, which you're not wrong. And it's so interesting to me that they're hunting them down and they're not speaking to each other. Like, Zaden and Sigail are not communicating, which he says, it's awkward as fuck.
- [28:14]
Kinsey
There's also a lot of tension between the Oration and Avarian writers and the flyers.
- [28:20]
Hannah
Who would have thought?
- [28:21]
Carly
Yeah, who would have thought? Packing all these people into one school who have always been trained to hate each other, and now there's tension to.
- [28:29]
Hannah
Say, who would have thought Caroline Ashton would be involved? And Ara fucking Byne, whatever the rest of her name is.
- [28:38]
Kinsey
Haven.
- [28:39]
Carly
Yeah.
- [28:40]
Hannah
Yeah. That was really frustrating to read.
- [28:42]
Kinsey
I was surprised that Dane and the other cadets were demoted from their rank and they completely replaced them. Because you'd think that after they had meshed together, they would still be like, okay, well, before they left, Ri was the squad leader and Dane was the wing leader, but they were very petty about it. They did not want to give him their ranks back. They did not want to cooperate, and they were being mean. Sending him on all these missions and being like, oh, you made it back.
- [29:08]
Hannah
Which I totally. Yeah, I think it made a lot of sense, though, especially now that we know who the new commanding general is. Like, I don't know when that transition officially took place, but Dain being demoted, I was like, I was gagged.
- [29:23]
Carly
Well, I think it's not necessarily that they were demoted. Right. It's that they. They come back to Bads Gaeth and they've had to instill new leadership because they had no choice. They needed. And they're just not recognizing their leadership rank in the Eretian quadrant because they still consider themselves like the Eretian riot at this point. That's fair.
- [29:41]
Hannah
I didn't think about it like that. That they had to restructure, and then now they're just like, expected to go back.
- [29:47]
Carly
Are these people who stepped up just expected to step down now? Don't get me wrong, some of these people who've stepped up are kind of a bag of dicks, and I'm not here for it. But I just think it's interesting that the oration writers have come back and they're still trying to live by the Codex and be honorable and act like they're part of the Navarre riot again. And nobody recognizes their leadership, which makes sense to a degree. But why are they also trying to play by their rules still?
- [30:14]
Hannah
And you're right, because the culture that Navarre itself but Bezgaeth has created around marked ones, which is all going back to the fact that their parents were rebels and traitors. So now these riders did the same thing, like, essentially. And while they did come to the rescue, I think that's the. That's the distinction, right, is they did come back and they saved the Nevarian Riders asses. I think that's why the Orion Riders are like, what the fuck, guys? Did we not prove ourselves enough to you guys? Like, we're trying to help people. But also think about the people who stayed in their reasoning. They were not going to accept them back with that sort of propaganda.
- [30:58]
Carly
Yeah, it's definitely deeply ingrained the way that they feel about this. And to them, they're just traitors. It's very, very black and white thinking that's happening in the group that stayed behind. And I think there's also just a level of hurt of, like, that so many people left that they kind of feel maybe abandoned. But it's a really, really tough dynamic that's happening. And I just find it interesting that the Orion writers are still adhering to Their codex and being respectful of that. Because if I was being treated that way, I'd just be like, fuck you guys. If you're not gonna recognize us, our leadership, I'm not recognizing your rules and you can fuck right off. Like, I would never put up with this.
- [31:42]
Hannah
Well, and I think some of the squad does feel that way. And I think that they're only doing that, I'm assuming, so that they can find the seventh breed.
- [31:51]
Carly
They're definitely trying to keep the peace to get this peace treaty pushed through and to help. And I'm just saying they're way more level headed about it than I would be.
- [32:00]
Kinsey
I was surprised that they had waited this long just to be royally pardoned too. Like they are still considered deserters even though they saved them, they fought the battle and they're still at Basgaev.
- [32:11]
Carly
Yeah. And I think that also just goes to show their dedication to solving this problem. That they're risking being tried for treason and being killed for it by staying at Basgaeth. But they're still not getting any sort of recognition for everything that they've sacrificed to do what they were supposed to be doing from the first place, which was protecting people.
- [32:36]
Hannah
So I do want to talk about the weather because. And now for the weather. So there's this drastic change in the weather to the point where they're now flying through a low visibility snowstorm. Taryn is saying he's having to practice. So that is not typical. We know that. And they explain it away, or at least Violet does, by connecting this to the death of her mom. And in our read and react episode, Kinsey and I were both like, she really had that much impact on the weather there. Like we knew she was strong and like really respected. Clearly respect and power go hand in hand. But damn. And I remember both of us being like, this is suspicious. I feel like there's more going on here. And I'm just saying there may or may not be a counter weather wielding Venon.
- [33:29]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [33:30]
Hannah
Out there.
- [33:30]
Kinsey
That means Theophany, actually. Yeah. It's like, oh, Lilith's gone. Let's just have Theophany come in and mess up all the weather at Basgaith for two weeks following this battle. But we have to remember this snow squall Immediately after they get back inside. They go to the infirmary and then that's when Theophany shows up to try to, quote, rescue kill Jack. So potentially the super, super severe storm could be from Theophany. And what I thought was really interesting was the very next morning after she had left. Violet had said that for the first time since winter solstice, she woke up to completely blue skies. So the weather became peaceful again. Very odd. Very odd.
- [34:18]
Hannah
That's suspicious. I can see the counter argument stewing over there in Carly's head. Give it to us. What you got?
- [34:27]
Carly
I will say it's an excellent observation to notice that the morning after they know theophany has left the campus, that the weather is clear. I will say, though, the storms are weird all throughout Iron Flame. They're weird there too. And General Sorengale is there. They're weird when they're in Orisha. There's just so many weird things going on with storms. I have a different feeling of this. I also don't know that I'm bi. That she could wield that strongly under the full wards. So I think it's a great theory. I think it's very interesting. I not there yet. With what we know about the wards and the Venon and how much power they can channel, I do have different feelings on what is going on here, but it's gonna encompass things that we just have not talked about here. So I'm gonna save it for our theory section at the end.
- [35:15]
Kinsey
I feel like it does help, though, that it's currently winter, so snowstorms are to be expected at some capacity. So she's not creating and completely generating a storm on its own. She's just making it, amplifying it so she doesn't need to be at her full power, which I know. Hannah and I have had this conversation. We think she's distance wielding. Carly, you seem to think she's just being super fast, like a normal venom ability. But, like, to me, I thought she was distance wielding. And so I'm like, if she can distance wield, I'm pretty sure she can storm wield. Like, I don't know.
- [35:49]
Hannah
Well, also, we'll get to that here shortly, because there's more to say about that. But, yes, we're going to rabbit hole. We're gonna rabbit hole. Okay. So keeping it broad with what is going on in and around and all through Bezkaya. So Navarre is in peace talks with Bor Emiel, and they're not going well, pretty much. It boils down to four. Meal is about to walk because they need the flyers safe, the Griffin flyers, to be safe. But Navarre doesn't want to take them. And currently, yes, Orisha has wards, but they're weak. And so it's really not safe. It's temporary. It could be a solution, but they need them under some wards. They also need their citizens safe for the same reason. But King Tori does not want to allow refugees.
- [36:34]
Carly
Boo. Tori sucks.
- [36:37]
Hannah
Yeah. Now the thing that could change this and what Zaden and Violet discuss about the difference between something that Hor Emiel could just get through a treaty with Orisha, which is safety for the Griffin Flyers and their citizens, is somehow figuring out how to allow the Griffin Flyers to wield under the Nevarian wards, which is what is building up to, of course, our act of treason that's coming in the next episode.
- [37:03]
Carly
Yes.
- [37:03]
Hannah
So first of all, I feel like this makes complete sense that Nevarr and Boromil are going to have to combine forces to be able to tackle this continent wide now war against Dark wielders who apparently come en masse.
- [37:19]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [37:19]
Hannah
That everyone pretended, at least in Navarre did not exist. And now Navarre is forced to face it. But you have to remember that poor Emil has been battling them. They've been having to deal with this. They probably have fatigue from this. So they're like, oh, now y'all want to do something about it? You're going to do what we need you to do to get to make this happen.
- [37:41]
Kinsey
They've lost tens of thousands of people to the venom, so it's going to.
- [37:45]
Hannah
Be really hard of people.
- [37:47]
Carly
Yeah, yeah. It's shocking to me how high and mighty the Navari and writers can feel over the Griffin Flyers who have done nothing but sacrifice trying to stop this problem. It's just unfathomable to me, the lack of empathy that has been trained into some of these people to not intentionally, very much intentionally made to be this way. You know, they're trained to have this very, very black and white thinking that's just not giving you any room for like empathy or understanding nuance in this situation. And it's just frustrating. It's frustrating to watch them.
- [38:27]
Hannah
That's what it boils down to, right, is the ability to have empathy. Because to be fair, in the defense of the Nevarian Riders, they have all been trained to look at the Griffin Flyers as their one ultimate enemy. And all of a sudden, in a span of months, which is still long enough, but in the span of months their entire world has been flipped upside down. They've learned about these Dark wielders that apparently they're country has been hiding from them. Surprised they don't have more resentment about that. But fine. So they're having to readjust this propaganda and like what's been ingrained into them. But so do the Griffin flyers. They have had both enemies attacking them. The Riders are still the Griffin Flyers enemy. And not only that they're in enemy territory, but they're having to do this both for their own safety and the safety of their citizens.
- [39:16]
Carly
Yeah. And that the leadership of your country has just thrown them to the wolves, sacrificed them, quite literally, and then be angry that they did whatever it took.
- [39:27]
Hannah
To survive at them, too. Because at this point, they've been given the information to adjust accordingly to. And the Griffin flyers were never where those negative feelings and actions should have been pointed. And they're still choosing to do that interpersonally when there are venom dark wielders that just showed up to your college trying to take over the wards of your country, and you're worried about a flyer touring? I know I'm getting ahead to next chapters. But, like. But they're also, like, early 20s, which is still. Not necessarily.
- [40:01]
Kinsey
But it's also. Their leadership is to blame.
- [40:03]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [40:04]
Carly
Oh, yeah.
- [40:04]
Kinsey
It's not just them. It's their leaders.
- [40:07]
Carly
100%. It's bad leadership. They have trained their entire military structure, essentially, to not be adaptable, because if they could adapt to these changing circumstances, they would be able to work with the flyers. That is a huge hindrance in this.
- [40:27]
Kinsey
The bad leadership could explain why some of the cadets do want to return to Orisha. Like, for example, Riddick and Aytrim were fighting and almost crashed into Taryn and Violet because according to Riddick, they want to go back home to Orisha.
- [40:41]
Hannah
Yeah, Aytrim wanted to go back, which I think is important. I mean, these are dragons. If they went to Orisha, they were already done with Nevar's bullshit.
- [40:49]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [40:50]
Hannah
That whole scene is so suspicious to me. I don't know if it was just the purpose that it served was one a little bit of shock value, but also to just tell us that those dragons wanted to go back to Orisha. Was that the point of the scene for you guys?
- [41:03]
Kinsey
I thought the whole scene was really weird.
- [41:05]
Hannah
Suspicious.
- [41:06]
Kinsey
It was very suspicious. Riddick actually became really suspicious to me throughout the entirety of Onyx Storm. But that was kind of like the first moment that I was like, this is weird, because we're not part of that conversation between Riddick and Aatrim. They're saying it's because they want to go back to Orisha. We don't know if that's truly the only reason they were fighting, because I feel like that's a really big distraction for not a super big reason to be fighting, but we don't know what they're really arguing about. I also thought it was really interesting because since Taryn was upset, he was like, well, Aytrim's 22. He should know better. So we found out the age of.
- [41:44]
Hannah
Riddick's dragon, which feels like a really important Easter egg. It does.
- [41:50]
Kinsey
And he's just a year older than Riddick. Unless Aytrim is lying about who he really is. Because at the Denver Q and A, Rebecca Yarros made a comment that some dragons actually lie about their identities to their writers, so.
- [42:04]
Hannah
Which is a whole rabbit hole. But, yes, what I come back to with that is, wouldn't Taryn know? Wouldn't Taryn of all of them, like, he would know. He's the one that gave us the age. Right. So if he was lying about his name. I don't know. I don't know if that is. What are your thoughts on that?
- [42:23]
Kinsey
Well, what if they could just, like, fly away for, like, a couple centuries or a couple decades, and then they come back? Hi, I'm so and so. I just.
- [42:31]
Hannah
I think they'd be able to gauge, you know, how you look at the. Like, the layers of a tree, and you could see how. What the age is. So it's like, they got it. That might not be the best analogy. You'd think that Taryn would be able to, after a hundred years, start recognizing, like, the stages of a dragon's life.
- [42:47]
Kinsey
Probably, but it's just also, like, Aeotrim is so weird because he also outran a green flame, Wyvern. I know Taryn can't do either, but I don't know.
- [42:56]
Hannah
Basically, he's suspicious, and we don't have an answer for this.
- [42:58]
Kinsey
The fight was weird. It could have genuinely just been about Arisha. But we did discover Aytrim's age, and we know that they want to go home, but it just seemed bizarre.
- [43:09]
Hannah
Yeah. I also felt like Taran was just really harsh, and it made me really sad for Aatrim, especially. Cause, like, he's only 22. He's still a baby.
- [43:21]
Kinsey
He overreacted for what happened.
- [43:25]
Carly
I think I understand what you guys are saying, but I feel like if there was something similar where, like, somebody had almost seriously injured Violet or knocked her out of the sky or something like that, and Zaden reacted, we'd all be like, yeah, no, that's fine.
- [43:41]
Hannah
I think it's the dragon. If Zaden had done that to Riddick, I wouldn't have felt bad. But I think it's the fact that it's like, to a dragon, well, even.
- [43:47]
Kinsey
Violet said, hey, cut it out. And he's like, no, I'm gonna take out his throat.
- [43:51]
Carly
Yeah, okay. He didn't go quite that far. But it does remind me of how dogs correct each other. They do very similar things where they will put their mouth on, you know, a younger pup and, like, hold them down and let them know.
- [44:08]
Hannah
It's like socializing them to what's acceptable.
- [44:10]
Carly
And I think from Taryn's perspective, he's like, I'm gonna be probably in a war with this dragon at some point, and they can't do this ever again. And so I kind of see it from that perspective. I'm not saying there isn't better ways to communicate, but I think in dragons, this is just kind of how it's done.
- [44:29]
Hannah
All right, Carly, bringing in the logic. I'm just like, all feelings over here. That makes sense.
- [44:35]
Kinsey
Fine.
- [44:37]
Hannah
Okay. Switching gears to the Jack attack. That's so lame. The Jack Vennon attack escape plan, slash murder plot. Like, what are we going with here?
- [44:49]
Kinsey
I do not know.
- [44:51]
Hannah
Technically, we're under the impression that, first of all, scribes have infiltrated and that these unknown Vennon are coming to get Jack out to help him escape. But we learn later on that, no, according to Theophany, she wanted to kill Jack because of what he knew, which is still really suspicious. And book four, but Violet makes the comparison of, like, oh, Violet and another side character. Forgive me, can't remember which one off the top of my head, but they make the comparison of, like, they are coming after Jack to help him escape when they could just go after the Wardstone. You would think that that would be overarchingly a better mission for them. And so let's reframe. They value going to kill Jack over taking out the Wardstone again. Again, yes. That's really suspicious.
- [45:44]
Kinsey
And then Jack does nothing else for.
- [45:46]
Carly
The rest of the book, and then he just disappears and is completely useless to us. I guess there is that one conversation he has with Violet where she learns a little bit about the Venin. But, yeah, I do think it's interesting that Jack caused so much chaos in book two and then is practically gone.
- [46:05]
Hannah
For book three, but still fucking breathing.
- [46:09]
Carly
Yeah. And yet it's still somehow so important to the Venon, and we still don't fully know why they want him back so bad. I can't imagine that he really knows enough secrets to be dangerous to them.
- [46:22]
Kinsey
How could an initiate know all of that? It seems like they have, like, a pyramid that they go through with their Rankings. So, like, I doubt that they're telling him. Congratulations, you just channeled for the first time. We're going to tell you all of our evil secrets. Like, yeah, how does he know?
- [46:37]
Hannah
He must have seen something that he like, shouldn't have been allowed to see or he's related to someone that is in or he has some deeper something's going on there.
- [46:48]
Carly
Yeah, he definitely knows something or has something that they want.
- [46:53]
Kinsey
Yeah, definitely.
- [46:54]
Carly
I don't know what it is, but.
- [46:55]
Hannah
There'S no way it still comes back to being interesting. It's not that they want him around. They just want him dead. Yeah.
- [47:02]
Carly
All right.
- [47:03]
Hannah
Y'all read the Onyx Storm excerpt long before.
- [47:06]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [47:07]
Hannah
For Cosmo, initial reaction to that. Oh my gosh, that was probably like one of the most jaw dropping until like the second half of the book moments. And then it's just apparently there's a whole bunch of people with silver hair. But back then I was like, oh my God, that's such a big deal. Never did I expect it to mean what it did in any capacity. I'll also go ahead and add in right here that we got that tattoo thing where she had like the faded tattoo and a lot of people thought it was her age, but now we know it was a mark of her being dedicated to Dune. I didn't realize that Rebecca put the big bad reveal, like the intro into an excerpt and then she killed her.
- [47:46]
Kinsey
At the end of the book.
- [47:47]
Hannah
Yay.
- [47:49]
Kinsey
Gone too soon, but never forgotten.
- [47:52]
Hannah
She grew on me. Like, as a villain. She's pretty cool.
- [47:56]
Kinsey
Yeah, but I'm sure your favorite villain is Zaddy.
- [47:59]
Hannah
I don't know if I'm at the level of acceptance yet. Check back in a couple episodes. All right, so I do have one last question about Theophany. Is this situation where she seems to distance wield? I don't think she distance wields. I think that someone else, another venon that's with her is a distance wielder. Someone grabs her toward the end of the book when they're leaving the temple and they disappear. I feel like that is one of the venom that can distance wield. But when you reread this scene, no one is said to have grabbed her. No one is said to disappear with her. She just vanishes. And so I can't make sense of it. I don't think she also has a second signet of distance wielding. Carly, I know you. I know I could see you, like waiting over there. You go ahead. You go ahead. And then I have some questions. For you.
- [48:52]
Carly
When I first read this extra, I was like, oh, she can distance wield. Because, like, she just disappears. Until I read the end of the book when she's like moving super fast out of the way of the lightning strikes. When, like Violet is trying to strike her with lightning. And then I was like, well, maybe that's not what she was doing. And then when I was thinking about it, I'm like, well, the wards are up. Could she distance wield within the wards? I don't know that she could. So I am leaning against her being a distance wielder and her just being incredibly fast. Because Violet would say, like, when she saw her move, just using like boosted lesser magic speed, she moves incredibly fast. And also in that scene, she can almost feel theophany going past her. Cause like, she feels the wind in her hair. I think the only significance of her being a distance wielder would. We would find out that the Venon could have multiple signets, but she's also gone. So it's either just an Easter egg that Venon can have multiple signets, or it's nothing.
- [49:49]
Hannah
Yeah. I also want to throw in at the end of fourth Wing in Ressen, we see a distance wielding Venon. And I'm not sure if that's one that dies or not, but. So when I first read this excerpt, I was like, maybe all Venon can distance wield before we knew that they had individual signets. I do like the theory that she moved really fast. We know that Venon can move fast, and she is one of the oldest Venon that we know about. And so maybe with that age, they can really hone in what is technically would be considered like lesser magics of Venon. But I almost feel like the way it's described is she would have to be like a blink invisible speed. It would have to be like faster than a human eye can capture. Was she just like running upstairs and then out of like, by people?
- [50:38]
Kinsey
Zaden was coming down the stairs. So he would have like intercepted paths.
- [50:42]
Hannah
With her, you would think, well, and he could also detect. So you would think that he could feel and have used his shadows to like catch. I don't know. That prompts a lot of questions. I feel like it would make the most sense if somehow someone had just grabbed her in distance wielded with her. But that's not what happened.
- [50:55]
Kinsey
I think regardless, she's using a lesser magic and this shows us that they can wield still within the wards, even though the Wardstone has been revived in Iron Flame.
- [51:07]
Hannah
Well, that's true. I mean, that goes back to the ability that she would technically be able to be messing with the weather because she uses some sort of magic right there.
- [51:16]
Carly
Yeah. But that is also a full Signet ability. And like, the way Jack describes how much power they can use is so limited. So I'm leaning towards the Venant only really being able to tap into their lesser magic and not full Signet abilities. But that's just based off the little bit of information we get from Jack. And he's a liar and he's a.
- [51:33]
Kinsey
Weak initiate, and she's a maven, so.
- [51:36]
Hannah
So let's talk about the Scenarium, because a lot of this chapter is Violet preparing and then meeting with them. The Scenarium is a council of the six provinces of Navarre's aristocracy, represented by the duke or duchess of each province. And they're meeting to determine whether Violet can go find and Darna's den and how at this point, again, the Orion Riders are considered traitors for abandoning Poste and siding with Orisha, which is making this whole meeting fact that she's even walking in there dangerous for Violet, because as of right now, she has not been pardoned. And this meeting also includes General Melgren.
- [52:15]
Kinsey
Yay.
- [52:16]
Hannah
And to be clear, he's basically the King's representative at this meeting. I think everyone's biggest question walking in and out of the scenario is, who is Llewellyn?
- [52:30]
Carly
I saw the funniest thread about this the other day. It was like, everybody's asking, who is Llewelyn and what is Llewellyn? And where is Llewellyn? But we should be asking, how is Llewellyn? And I felt that because it is confusing.
- [52:47]
Hannah
It is. Well, even for people who have engaged with these books as deeply and as many times as we have, I still found myself being like, that's a person and a place. Right? Like, that's both. It's both a person who is, like, in charge of the place that's also called Llewellyn, which is a city. It's like. It's also the same thing that Orisha is, which is a city in the Tiran Door province. So I've heard some people describe it as. Have you ever watched Bridgerton?
- [53:23]
Carly
Yeah.
- [53:24]
Hannah
So the Duke of Hastings is also referred to as, like, Hastings, and he's the Duke of that area. I think that helped me understand it. But it also is, like, very confusing on the page.
- [53:36]
Kinsey
I'm just like, why would she do that? I mean, I think he was already brought in an iron flame. When Zaden was talking about his past, I think.
- [53:44]
Hannah
Yes, yes.
- [53:45]
Kinsey
But he's not the Duke. That's Lindell.
- [53:48]
Hannah
And that's why I, the whole time, thought they were the same person. I would. I would always say Llewellyn fostered. If you go back to some episodes, I'm sure it's in there. Llewellyn fostered Zaden and Leah. But no, now I don't know if that. Like, maybe it was an editing thing that she accommodated to make it both of. I don't know. But we do find out. Zaden says that Llewellyn did help or have a hand in helping both him and Liam prepare for the riders quadrant. So maybe that's why we assumed that it was both the same person, because it was mentioned in that context and we just assumed that meant foster parent.
- [54:31]
Carly
Yeah, that's what I thought too. When I read it, I was like, so is Duke Lindell of, like, House Llewellyn or something along those lines? That was the only way I had of explaining it. But it sounds like it's just that both Llewellyn and. And Duke Lindell helped prepare them for the quadrant. They are two totally different people.
- [54:50]
Hannah
And you're saying he's not the duke, but he's technically standing in for Lindell at this point at the meeting. Or he's technically standing in for Zaden, like he took over, right?
- [55:02]
Carly
Yes. So Llewellyn was put in charge temporarily of Tyrandor, and so that seems to be what is happening here. Duke Lindell technically fostered them and prepped them for the quadrant. Llewellyn has been on their side with Arisha, rebuilding secretly and all of that.
- [55:22]
Kinsey
Why would they give Lindell the title of duke if Llewellyn was actually the one that was temporarily running Tirandor?
- [55:29]
Hannah
Is he the Duke of another? I'm not sure. We looked into it. Llewellyn is a duke, was a duke. He's technically now an earl after Zaden, and Lindell is also a duke. It is unconfirmed where Lindell's dukedom is. Llewellyn's dukedom was Tiran Dor, and that is now Zaden's, of course, so it's still confusing. But we can confirm they are both dukes somehow, some way, and they're two separate people and they are different people. The only other thing that I really want to talk about with the scenario is a big part of it was Violet feeling like she was a failure because she walked in with and Darna's list of demands, expecting to be given leadership essentially, or hoping to pick someone to be the leader of her quest squad to go find and Darna's den. And I just want to say I was actually quite surprised that she expected them to do that, knowing she is a second year. Like, yes, it is her dragon and maybe recommendations for who she could take, I think is completely valid. And she does have her dragons as leverage. But she's also a second year. This is a military college.
- [56:48]
Kinsey
She needs to touch grass.
- [56:49]
Hannah
You're talking to the aristocracy, the leaders of this country, and you're like, yeah, I'm going to pick my sister to lead.
- [56:59]
Kinsey
My sister and my boyfriend.
- [57:02]
Hannah
My boyfriend has to come because she makes a. That's a big point. Which go her. Because I want Zaden on Paige. I don't want them to be, you know. And of course they're dragons, but that was awfully presumptuous, honestly.
- [57:18]
Carly
I was actually surprised that she didn't dig in harder in that meeting. It happens later on, but in this meeting, I would have been like, well, then I guess you really don't need in Darna that bad.
- [57:28]
Hannah
She starts to tease that and I think they start to comply a little bit. But it's like, yeah, if you're gonna be delusional, girl, and have expectations, you better go hard.
- [57:36]
Carly
Oh, yeah. I don't know. I'm the most stubborn person on the planet, though, so I probably would have just walked in there and been like, it's this or I walk or fly or fly.
- [57:48]
Hannah
I love a good pun.
- [57:49]
Carly
So I was surprised she didn't dig in harder in that moment, that she wasn't just like, well, I guess you don't need us. Maybe we'll just leave.
- [57:57]
Hannah
Probably because of Andarna. And Darna did seem to hold her back a little bit in that scene where she was like, no, like, we still have to go.
- [58:04]
Carly
Yeah. I would have been like, girl, let me gamble. I've got this.
- [58:07]
Hannah
I've got a poker face. Give it a chance.
- [58:10]
Kinsey
They also haven't been pardoned yet. So I think if she did threaten that, then they would have been fighting a war on two fronts. So she did have to be a little bit mindful over the repercussions.
- [58:20]
Carly
That's true, But I'm not that level headed.
- [58:23]
Kinsey
Yeah, they're traitors.
- [58:29]
Carly
I probably would have gone down for treason in this book. They would have just been like, we can't deal with this girl. We are not pardoning her. She's unhinged.
- [58:40]
Hannah
Yeah. I mean, I like to pretend I'd make it past parapet. I'd for sure get tried for treason. Death by dragonfire. Oh, that sounds awful.
- [58:49]
Carly
Yeah. I couldn't have put up with all these rules. I would have been in trouble from day one.
- [58:54]
Kinsey
I don't think I would have made it past Gauntlet.
- [58:56]
Hannah
Yeah, no, Gauntlet's where it would have gotten me.
- [58:58]
Carly
Oh, yeah. Anyways, I really could have done that.
- [59:02]
Hannah
All right, let's talk about Zaden and Violet. I think this sums it up perfectly. I really want to know what we think about the whole brooding. You should be scared of me, Zayden. Because it kind of gave me awkward, like, Edward vibes.
- [59:18]
Kinsey
I thought it was annoying, to be quite honest. I was like, really? This is where we're gonna go?
- [59:24]
Carly
I don't know.
- [59:25]
Hannah
I'm surprised. I also got the vibe because normally I'm like, anything Zaden does is just hot. But I was just like, don't touch me.
- [59:33]
Carly
I think I just saw it as Zaden desperately trying to prepare Violet, which, again, his whole character arc. This book is just like watching a slow moving car crash. Or way to put it, it just kind of feels. That's how it feels anyways. Or like, you know, you're just. You're on an avalanche sliding towards a cliff. And he knows he's gonna fall off eventually. And I think he was just really trying to prepare her for the day when they might end up on opposite sides. Cause he doesn't know what's gonna happen to him. And I think it just made me sad for him because I know he wants to give her hope, but he's also just trying to prepare her for the very real eventuality that if there isn't a cure, this is what's happening. Yeah. So it just made me sad for him, honestly.
- [60:27]
Hannah
Well, and maybe my first perspective of it was, there's still hope. Why are you being like this? Come on. But no, he's new.
- [60:35]
Carly
He's not a man who lives by hope, though.
- [60:37]
Hannah
No.
- [60:38]
Carly
You know, think about everything he's been through. You know, he. He is now having to fight alongside the people who executed his father for doing the thing that they're now all going to do, which is fight the venom. So he is not a hopeful person.
- [60:55]
Hannah
Yeah. I think I expected, like, the brooding and this the. To be fair. Right. Like, he has all this responsibility, and now he just realized that he fucked up and can't handle all of it. Like, any of it. Now he can't even lead. That's why he doesn't want to be Duke. But I think it was the wording of the. He literally says, you should be scared of me. And I was like, so dramatic. I don't know. I don't know if it's just how it came off. I don't know. I will say I totally got the whole, if we are intimate and I lose control, you're gonna die. And I don't blame him for that. I blame Rebecca for that. And that's fine. It makes sense for the storyline. But then we got that first sex scene, and I was first of all like, whoa, this is happening fast. This is fast. And then he channeled, and I was like, fuck. And I saw it coming, but it was just like that car crash. I watched that. I was like, this is not a fun scene to read it all. I know this is coming. It's like, when's the crash gonna happen? I'm, like, watching it in slow motion. Yeah.
- [61:55]
Carly
Yeah. I think I have, like, a video reaction of me reading that scene where, like, the second I start reading it, I'm like, oh, this is gonna go to shit. I think I say it out loud, like, this is gonna go so bad. And then it obviously does, unfortunately.
- [62:09]
Hannah
It obviously does.
- [62:11]
Carly
Obviously.
- [62:12]
Kinsey
Violet was just oblivious to everything. She's like, ah, this is great. Like, your turn now. And he's, like, in pain. Like, oh, my God. I just channeled again.
- [62:20]
Hannah
Like, the fact that he also said he forgot was so sad for me.
- [62:28]
Carly
I sobbed at that part. Kenzie knows I sobbed so hard at that part. Because if you've had trauma, when you wake up and there's just that brief period of time where you forget and then it all comes crashing back. You have to experience that whole trauma within moments, and it's just heartbreaking. I was heartbroken for him in that moment. I literally cried. And then I called Kinsey and cried some more.
- [62:56]
Kinsey
Yeah, it's okay. That's what we're here for.
- [62:59]
Carly
Yeah. I appreciate you.
- [63:00]
Kinsey
Yay.
- [63:03]
Hannah
It's not a fun scene to talk about. Now I'm, like, all sad, depressed, you know?
- [63:07]
Carly
It's the most depressing sex scene.
- [63:09]
Kinsey
I swear, Violet got that O in still. She got that.
- [63:14]
Hannah
And you know what? Props to him because he did. He said he just was trying to hold off looking up.
- [63:21]
Kinsey
She still gotta win.
- [63:26]
Hannah
Not their usual track.
- [63:27]
Kinsey
She's like, you made your boyfriend lose another small piece of his soul, but at least you got that.
- [63:33]
Hannah
Oh, girl.
- [63:40]
Carly
Oh, yeah. Well, you know, a win is a win.
- [63:43]
Hannah
A win, win is a win. Maybe that's how Rebecca thought she was balancing that scene.
- [63:49]
Kinsey
Yeah, she's like, typing, they'll love this. Setting him up for a slow burn. Let's go.
- [63:56]
Hannah
Oh, yeah. And boy did it. But you know what? They were more intimate than I expected. Again, this happened. I just. Violet didn't forget, but she was just ready. The whole she was just. That just shows the denial, the level of denial.
- [64:11]
Carly
She was in it to win it, Hannah, and she did.
- [64:15]
Hannah
Can you blame a girl? You can't. Nope. No judgment here. All right, so last thing to talk about with Violet and Zaden is this whole memory sharing, bond, suspiciously worded conversation that they have that still, like, the wording is so unclear and they don't understand it enough, but what it did do. So what I'm talking about is when she shares this memory, she, like, says she grabs onto the bond with a vice like grip, and she shares these, like, sexy, sensual memories with him. And he comments after it about it, and she asks him how he did it. And she also says that she doesn't really know if it was their bond or an intrinsic thing. And now we have to question, is it also potentially a mindwalker thing or, you know, daydreaming thing for Violet? What do y'all make of that conversation before I know we still have the whole rest of the book to deep dive to, like, try and pick up other clues for. But, like, what did you walk away with this book thinking about that?
- [65:21]
Kinsey
I see where the daydreaming comes from, and I'm inclined to say, yeah, it could be. Except for the fact that Rebecca Yarrow said she's only at, like, 10% capacity of her power. And I feel like at this point, she doesn't even know that's her signet.
- [65:37]
Hannah
Oh, yeah.
- [65:37]
Kinsey
So it would be really strange for her to, like, break through someone's subconscious while they're awake when she's, like, barely even using her signet. Fair. I still think it's a bond thing, mostly because, I mean, like, Taryn could share her memories. She even, like, in Fourth Wing, when she's like, oh, if you would just accept me, and, like, I could be down on my knees. And then he, like, had that image in her head. Like, I. That was way before she was a dreamwalker.
- [66:10]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [66:10]
Kinsey
Because Andarna was still a feather tale at that point. Like, so I'm like, you can still, like, plant images in people's minds. I feel like if you have a bond, it's just instead of using words, you're just sending it a picture. Sure. Maybe Question mark.
- [66:22]
Carly
Yeah. I mean, because she specifically brings up that moment when she is out trying to wield with Khar and he sends like those flood of memories at her of the night before. And so that's definitely before. And Darna would have been channeling my. I mean, as far as we know. I mean, I guess the irides work totally differently. Maybe because they're bonded. She just has access to this weird ability because. And Darna and Taryn and Violet can still talk even when they're on the islands. Like their. Their mind to mind bond still work. So maybe it does affect it differently. But I do find it interesting because when in. Darna is in the dreamless sleep and she's in the interrogation chamber and Xaden comes and gets her an iron flame. He thinks something through the bond that she hears when she is on the signet blocking serum. And I've always questioned that. I'm like, how did she know what he was thinking in that moment? She doesn't have access to her signet. So either. And Darna's magic just works totally differently than we know and that it was working even back in fourth wing and we didn't realize it or this is something totally different and it has to do with her bond. I like to lean towards their bond because I love like a fated mate style me too soulmate level situation in her romance novel. But Rebecca Yaros has also leaned away from that and said that she doesn't really like writing fated mates. So I just don't know which one it is.
- [67:46]
Kinsey
I mean, Taryn calls Zayden her mate. So until they say no in the book and not an interview, I'm gonna be Delulu.
- [67:55]
Carly
Kenzie. I'm gonna hold on to that with you. You and me, we'll be Delulu together.
- [67:59]
Hannah
Well, it sounds like both of you have narrowed it down to either the daydreaming thing or the bond. She asks though, because again, she doesn't know it at this point. She asks if it's the bond or his intrinsic ability.
- [68:10]
Kinsey
I don't think it's intrinsic though.
- [68:13]
Hannah
He's just already in her mind. But that is an intentional thing from her. So it's gotta be the bond.
- [68:19]
Carly
And I'll point out in the interrogation chamber that moment happens. He thinks something and she responds out loud. So he's.
- [68:26]
Hannah
Which are all the kind of things that people were using as evidence to explain that she was potentially an intensic herself. Which is why I kind of go back to. I know she's only at 10% but maybe her second signet is going to be able to actually mind walk people to do things. And that's why just those kind of thought sharing and going into someone's subconscious is not that high up in percentage, especially since she's not conscious of it.
- [68:52]
Carly
So if it is Andarna's signet that she's using in this moment, the one she gets from Andarna, that means that it works even when she's on the signet blocking serum, Even when Indarna's in the dreamless sleep. And potentially, I guess, maybe even back in fourth wing.
- [69:08]
Hannah
Now, this is going to be an interview thing that I'm going to throw in here as evidence. But when she was addressing the theories around Liam potentially being an example of Violet's second signet of speaking to the dead in the interrogation scene, Rebecca specifically emphasized that she was on a serum blocker. She was disconnected from her dragons. But then we. I don't know if Rebecca was just working with the information that we didn't know that Irids were that different. I don't know. But because she came back with that, it makes me feel like it's not about Indarna. I don't know. I don't know though.
- [69:45]
Carly
Yeah, I definitely think that interview really did also lead me to think whatever it is, it can't have anything to do with Indarna or Signet's, which is why I've always leaned towards. Well, it has something to do with their bond. Also. Could have been an editing error. Always a possibility. Just left something in italics that shouldn't have been.
- [70:04]
Hannah
Yeah, true.
- [70:05]
Carly
I mean, that's a really simple error to make. Yeah, I don't know. Could be either. I'm still on either, but I would love for them to be fated mate. So I think I'm just gonna stay dulu with Kinsey for now.
- [70:15]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [70:15]
Kinsey
Bond final answer.
- [70:17]
Hannah
That's my motto. Macha motto. It's my go to.
- [70:21]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [70:22]
Hannah
Yeah. If there's a way to be delusional and happy, sign me up. That's why thinking Darna still bonded the end.
- [70:30]
Kinsey
For my mental sanity, I'm saying no because I can't handle the heartbreak again.
- [70:35]
Hannah
It's not precisely until Rebecca tells me otherwise. And maybe not even then. Well, I believe it anyways. All right, final topic. So Mira comes back with intel that they figured out how to alter the material that a rune is tempered into without destroying it. Which was really, honestly, in a first read, somewhat confusing for me to follow. And it wasn't until we saw it put into practice when they do this to the Wardstone that I understood what is happening. So runes are these shapes that are plucked from strands of magic, from dragons. They're designed and then they're placed into an item. So think a rock. If you've seen an engraving in a rock, so then you have a rock with these shapes in it. And if you have someone who can manipulate the rock, you can take a shape out without changing the other engravings. And so that is what they go on to do with Wardstone. And this conversation with Mira was setting up for that. And I know there's been a lot. I've seen so many tiktoks about, like I don't even know what runes are. So I hope that that explained it. Basically any one of those shapes, depending on how it's combined, think of it as like a language. Any way that you combine those shapes has a new meaning. And so if you. You see, Mira comes back and there's something like a levitating rune in there, but also maybe it could get cold. So that's two different runes placed into that rock that now it can do both of those things or something new when you combine two different types of runes.
- [72:20]
Kinsey
Yes, perfectly said.
- [72:22]
Hannah
What was Rune's class called? Because that was it with Professor Trissa.
- [72:27]
Carly
Who?
- [72:28]
Hannah
Trissa who?
- [72:29]
Carly
We got Professor Hannah in the house.
- [72:31]
Hannah
All right, well, class dismissed.
- [72:35]
Carly
I will mention that you had stated that runes are like a language, and in their original form, like in the runes that exist are a language.
- [72:43]
Hannah
You're saying in real life or in real life?
- [72:46]
Carly
Not in the book?
- [72:47]
Hannah
Oh, I actually didn't know that.
- [72:49]
Carly
Yeah. Runes exist and they are in multiple cultures. Some of the most common ones that I think we see are the Nordic runes. Those are the ones we see in mythology a lot and in fantasy novels quite often. And yes, they are our language.
- [73:03]
Hannah
I would like to also point out that the shapes on the covers of all of the Empyrean books are runes. So you can see that, for example, one of the circles. If you're looking at your book or watching this on Patreon video, you can see the shape of the circle. And I want to say that each one of them, they each have it. You can see that each of those shapes. Think of that as a rune if you need a visual, which is really cool. All right, class dismissed.
- [73:30]
Carly
Thank you, Professor Hannah.
- [73:32]
Hannah
You're welcome. You're so welcome.
- [73:35]
Kinsey
Time to head on over to the healer's quadrant to take a temperature check on our favorite characters, favorite moments, and standout Quotes. Who is hot for you this week? Hannah.
- [73:45]
Hannah
Andarna. Ooh, she's so supportive. She's a girl's girl and loved her list of demands and how she snuck something in there for herself. Hunting in the king's forest was such an Endarna move. I love her, Harley.
- [74:02]
Carly
I have the same one, I think probably as Kinsey. Likely. Imogen.
- [74:06]
Hannah
Is it Imogen? Of course. Of course.
- [74:09]
Kinsey
Any chapter she's in, it, it's gonna be her.
- [74:12]
Carly
I will say, I feel like the rest of the book, I'm gonna be like Riddick over and over and over again.
- [74:17]
Hannah
Rick.
- [74:17]
Kinsey
Except for Dain.
- [74:19]
Carly
Oh, yeah.
- [74:20]
Hannah
Auric's gonna sneak in there for me quite a bit, I think more than I ever expected.
- [74:25]
Kinsey
How about who's not hot for you?
- [74:27]
Hannah
I literally wrote everyone but Andarna and also Imogen. They were just a little too. And I get the context of it, but this is like, for me, this section's vibes and everyone else was just a little too broody and I guess also Violet, but just maybe a little too delusional because then it tricked me. I, like, fell into that with her, which can you blame. Anyways, what about you, Taryn?
- [74:52]
Kinsey
Definitely Taryn. He was just way too grumpy in these chapters, and I did not like it.
- [74:58]
Carly
For me, it was Mira blaming Brennan for Lilith's choices and her death. I don't like it when characters do that and people make their choices and we don't blame other people for their choices. Yes.
- [75:10]
Hannah
How about our favorite positivity?
- [75:12]
Carly
Yes, go ahead, Go ahead.
- [75:14]
Kinsey
How about our favorite moments?
- [75:16]
Hannah
Zaden using his shadows to pull Violet close right before they got intimate. If they're are magical gestures of sexual kind or romantic kind, they're gonna be at this section for me.
- [75:31]
Carly
I think we know that.
- [75:33]
Hannah
Yeah. Yeah. Well, for any new listeners, that's true.
- [75:36]
Aaron Manke
Yeah.
- [75:37]
Kinsey
Carly.
- [75:39]
Carly
I love the moment when Violet in her head is like, I tilt my head and fold my arms like I'm strapped with every dagger I own. Or I'm at least wearing footwear. She is trudging after Zaden in the snow, following him to Jack's cell with no shoes, socks through the snow. That is dedication, and I appreciate it. And I thought it was hilarious.
- [76:03]
Hannah
I agree that she probably wouldn't have time to lace up boots. She's following a shadow.
- [76:09]
Carly
Yeah.
- [76:10]
Hannah
Like she's lucky she woke up with the door click.
- [76:12]
Carly
You know, clearly this world isn't in California where you have flip flops by the door. I'm like, you could just at Least grab those.
- [76:19]
Hannah
Can't imagine those exist in this world.
- [76:20]
Carly
I don't think so, either.
- [76:22]
Kinsey
My favorite moment was also outside Jack's cell, but it was when they were fighting the Venon, and then Zaden stormed in.
- [76:28]
Hannah
Oh, we got our. Yeah, our Shadow Daddy entrance. I feel like we kind of skipped over that earlier in our discussion, but that was, like, such a good.
- [76:38]
Carly
It was delicious.
- [76:40]
Hannah
Such a good book. Yep. All right, Favorite quotes. Are you guys going to be any sort of surprised?
- [76:46]
Kinsey
No.
- [76:48]
Carly
I feel like I could guess it every episode. I'll know what it is.
- [76:51]
Hannah
Let's make it a thing. Did you think that this was going to be it? I like that it's good. Bet it's always Zaden. So mine is I could reach the rank of Maven, lead armies of dark wielders against everyone we care for. Is that foreshadowing?
- [77:07]
Kinsey
I hope not.
- [77:07]
Carly
Ha, ha, ha.
- [77:08]
Hannah
And watch every vein in my body turn red as I channel all the power in the continent. And I would still love you. What I did doesn't change that. I'm not sure anything can. In retrospect, that seems like a hell of a lot of foreshadowing.
- [77:24]
Carly
It's a little heartbreaking, but it's also beautiful.
- [77:28]
Hannah
It is also beautiful. So we're gonna hold onto that piece. Kinsey, Yours.
- [77:31]
Kinsey
Yeah. Mine is way better. It's funny. No, I loved that quote. I love declarations of love, but that's, like. The foreshadowing is a little scary. So mine is. Your wings don't hold the weight of this eyes, and yet yours miraculously carry the burden of your ego.
- [77:48]
Hannah
I came to write that one in, and I saw yours there, and I was like, that's. Yeah.
- [77:53]
Kinsey
And then I commented to you, I was like, I'm surprised you didn't use the Zaden quote.
- [77:56]
Carly
And then you saw it.
- [77:59]
Hannah
I came back to copy paste into the document that quote, which is why mine is lowercase, if you notice.
- [78:05]
Carly
Yeah.
- [78:05]
Hannah
And I was like, oh, my God. She already had it written in there because she knew that was gonna be mine.
- [78:08]
Carly
I did.
- [78:09]
Kinsey
I was ready for you. I won the bet this week.
- [78:12]
Hannah
I like that idea.
- [78:13]
Carly
We're gonna keep a tally.
- [78:15]
Hannah
Yep. Kinsey is up one. Carly, yours.
- [78:19]
Carly
The only thing stronger than the power prowling within me is the resolve stiffening my spine. I think this quote is doing so much, and I love it.
- [78:31]
Hannah
Oh, I love how yours is, like, borderline philosophical.
- [78:37]
Carly
I just. I love a sentence that does a lot of heavy lifting. And I think I stole that phrase from my brother. So if you're listening to this, I know I stole it from you, but I'm your big sister, so I can. Yeah, I just love that sentence. I just think it's saying so much. And I think the phrasing of power prowling within me is a little intimidating, and I think it's a little interesting phrasing.
- [79:03]
Hannah
Love it.
- [79:04]
Carly
Now, let's stop by the scribe quadrant for our epigraph analysis of the most thought provoking epigraphs. The chapter two epigraph from a study on Cygnets by Major Dalton Cisneros. The rarest of signets, those that rise once in a generation or century, have manifested concurrently with an equal twice in our records, both critical times in our history. But only once have the six most powerful walked the continent simultaneously. As fascinating as that spectacle must have been, I would rather not live to see it happen again.
- [79:38]
Hannah
Hmm. So this epigraph tells us that the first six writers all had different signets and that those signets are the most powerful forms of signets. They're so rare that never again have all six signets manifested in riders that were alive at the same time. It also tells us that some have manifested at the same time twice, both of these instances at critical moments in history. So assuming during big wars and they're referred to as equals, which Kinsey's gonna break down for us.
- [80:10]
Kinsey
Yes. So this made me so excited because I interpreted equals as them actually being counters. This is something I've been saying for ages. I will die on the hill. That Zaden and Violet are counters of each other, and Imogen and Dane are counters of each other. So now we do know certain signets can manifest concurrently with an equal. I also think this is a theory. I guarantee that the six original signets are currently walking the Earth at this time. Obviously, the war with the Venin is pretty serious. We do have confirmation of Zaden and Violet because they keep bringing up the shadow wielder and the lightning wielder. But there are also other signets that they have brought up as being, like, really rare and really powerful. So Garruk is the first distance wielder in 200 years. Rhiannon is the most powerful summoner in a hundred years. We have Arryk with true precognition, which, as far as we know, nobody really has had so far. And this also leaves Imogen and Dain. They have really unique, really powerful signets. That's more than six riders. But I do think for sure, like, they've got to be on that List.
- [81:21]
Hannah
Well, I'm sure at some point we have all notated the fact that there are so many mentions of rare signets. It felt like Rebecca was just throwing out rare signets all the time. There we go. This is why they're going to build.
- [81:35]
Kinsey
The Avengers or something to take down all the Venin. But speaking of Venon, I also think that this epigraph foreshadows the fact that the most powerful writers are also manifesting not just to have counters among themselves, but also to counter the Venin too.
- [81:50]
Hannah
Because why Nature likes everything in balance.
- [81:54]
Carly
Yay. Running theme of these books.
- [81:58]
Hannah
Now, the Chapter 4 epigraph from Sharpen the A Professor's Guide by Colonel Tispany Calthea reads, There are two reasons Rider Cadets are not given the same summer and winter leave as others. Firstly, civilians do not react well to dragons casually roaming their villages. Secondly, raising tigers for war requires locking their cages lest they turn on each other or you. End quote.
- [82:29]
Carly
I love this epigraph. It's doing so much with so little. I think it's showing how isolated the riders can become and how dangerous that can be. And I think it really shows how much leadership is afraid of the weapons they're making. They're turning these riders into these weapons. And they're also afraid of them because they know how powerful they can get. And so I. I think this is interesting for what is happening now, but I also think it's interesting when we think about what has probably happened in the history and maybe why some of that history is missing. So I just think this epigraph is doing a lot of work and I love it so much.
- [83:13]
Hannah
It also reminds me of Taylor Swift's who's Afraid of Lil? Little Old Me. You caged me and you called me crazy. I am what I am because you trained me. So who's afraid of little old me?
- [83:27]
Carly
Well, it's funny because when you say that, when I heard that song for the first time and when I read this epigraph, it reminded me of. I don't think they exist anymore. But the traveling circuses with the lions they had locked in cages, they became so dangerous because of the environment that they were kept in because they were so isolated. And that was the imagery I got, both with that song and this epigraph. So they do feel very tied to me.
- [83:51]
Hannah
I mean, their goal is to take the humanity out of them.
- [83:54]
Carly
Yes.
- [83:55]
Hannah
Between Dane, Violet and Zaden, somebody said they lose humanity.
- [84:00]
Carly
They don't want them to be people. They just want them to be weapons. Stripping them of their humanity is a step in that direction, and it's telling of the environment and how they've gotten to where they are.
- [84:14]
Hannah
Well, that was depressing.
- [84:16]
Carly
Yeah. We have a more fun section next.
- [84:19]
Hannah
Yeah, we do. I'm so excited for this one. I'm particularly proud of how we themed it. Are you guys ready? Ready.
- [84:25]
Kinsey
Yes.
- [84:26]
Hannah
Now take flight with us to the hatching grounds for our favorite Easter eggs and moments of foreshadowing section, including moments that stood out during this reread and maybe spiral into theories. Can you see me? See what we did there?
- [84:42]
Kinsey
Hatching grounds at Easter Eggs.
- [84:48]
Carly
Shout out to Kinsey. I feel like you're the one that mentioned it, and I instantly fell in love with it.
- [84:53]
Hannah
Well, I thought the veil was super cute. But then hatching grounds, it just made sense. Next level. Perfection.
- [84:59]
Carly
Yep.
- [85:00]
Hannah
All right, we're going to start with N. Darna when she says, quote, I can't blame him for wanting to know what he is referring to. Zaden seeking information about Jack and how Violet then thought the longing in her voice startles me on multiple levels. Which was all foreshadowing the severity of her need to find her kind and of course the Quest Squad adventure, but also how strongly she felt about it, to the point that she would choose to go on and un bond Violet to get those answers.
- [85:32]
Carly
Yeah.
- [85:34]
Hannah
Next, when talking to Andarna about how dragons do not follow human laws and Violet doesn't answer to them either, since she's bonded to Andarna and Taryn, Violet thinks even as their rider, there are still some crimes that would demand my execution and that of whomever I trust to involve. Now, this was foreshadowing and explains why Violet had her memories wiped by Imogen at the end and why Andarna said, I will not let them burn you. Because traitors are executed by dragonfire. So Violet likely committed or assisted in a crime that would demand execution, leading to question who was involved and who could also be held responsible.
- [86:19]
Kinsey
In the prologue, when Jack says, quote, even you don't get a say in which parts of us are taken first. Ryerson to me, this totally set up Zaden turning a sim. We know that in the end, Zaden did actually get to pick which parts of himself he lost. And Zaden clung to his love for Violet. Despite everything, he was able to maintain.
- [86:37]
Carly
Just a sliver of control regarding Violet's search for the cure. She says even if it takes bargaining with Tokaris for access to every book on the damned continent or capturing Dark wielders, one by one to question. I'll find a cure. We know she already bargained with Tokarys for access to his library. So in book four, are we going to see Violet hunting and capturing Venon, trying to get more answers?
- [87:06]
Kinsey
Ooh, I hope so. Where is my husband?
- [87:10]
Hannah
Oh, husband. I can't wait for that. All right, so this one is notable. Malik's fire burns bright in the highest turret, consuming the belongings of our dead as he requires. Maybe the God of death will curse me for keeping my mother's personal journals, but it's not like I wouldn't have a few choice words for him should we meet. Anyway, I included this one because one of two things seems to be happening. Either Malik did curse her because she did keep her mother's personal journals and that's why we see so much bad luck, failure after failure throughout this book. Or to curry her favor, he did not curse her. And that could be. I mean, another example of the God who curries her favor being Malak. Toward the end, which was referenced in the letter from the Orishan Temple of Dune letter, we get an Easter egg.
- [88:10]
Kinsey
And foreshadowing for Imogen. Violet says he's still pissed at me for burdening you with the knowledge. And Imogen responds with quote, then he should stop doing stupid shit that needs to be covered up. To me, this tells me that she has clearly covered up stuff for Zaden in the past a lot, all the time. And she could know more than she's letting on and telling Violet. And then of course this does foreshadow the mind wipe at the end. And apparently that means that Zaden is up to really stupid shit again.
- [88:40]
Hannah
Yep. Next we get two mentions of rubies. Now we will be doing a deep dive bonus episode specifically on the gemstones mentioned throughout the book. But just some interesting info on the context it rubies are mentioned in. And then info on the rubies. Both mentions are the ruby hilted sword of a Venin that was trying to break out Jack. It was not theophany, it was a blonde Venon. And then we also have the Duchess of Moraine with a ruby necklace and earrings. A ruby is a stone of nobility, considered the most magnificent of all gems. The Queen of Stones and the Stone of Kings. A ruby also helps reduce fear of the paranormal and evil. It banishes nightmares and guards against psychic and psychological attacks. Do with that what you will.
- [89:38]
Carly
I think I could do a lot with that, so thank you.
- [89:41]
Kinsey
We also get foreshadowing that Panchic is a traitor after the Venin attack. Eric says, quote, he being Panchik doesn't even seem phased that they were working to rescue Barlow instead of going for the Wardstone and Riddick even questions if Panchik will notify the other leadership, since Panchik was the only leader there for the debrief on the attack. Panchk was clearly not fazed because he probably helped initiate the attack. He could have granted the Venan access to scribe uniforms and ushered them inside, or just provided them with directions to Jack's cell. Either way, I think he wasn't surprised because he anticipated it and help them because he's a traitor. Next we also get foreshadowing for Zaden being called to other Venin. He says, quote, that's how I know I've changed. How Garak and I have managed to slay more than a dozen of them this week. I can feel them calling to me, just like I can feel the Source pulsing beneath my feet with its incomparable power because I'm one of them. This lets us know that they can sense each other, but it also tells us Zaden is being called back to his sage. And by the end of Onyx Storm, Zaden could no longer resist this call. After Zaden loses control during Spicy time, he said he needed space and Violet asked if she was far enough. He responds with not sure the Isle Kingdoms would be far enough, and Violet thinks what the fuck? Even though there's little to no magic in the Isle Kingdoms, he still manages to channel there. And as we know, they do end up finding their way to the Isle Kingdom. So I think that his quote does confirm that not even the Isle Kingdoms is good enough because it's still goes to shit.
- [91:15]
Carly
Additionally, during that scene, Violet thinks to herself, my body is a map only he has the key to. I think this is foreshadowing regarding the compass.
- [91:26]
Hannah
Ooh, I like that one. So Taryn was right about the seventh Breed not welcoming their intrusion. They should worry more about what will happen when we do find them. Taryn growls if a den of our kind chose to leave, chose to hide, they will not welcome our intrusion. And again, in retrospect, he really wasn't being as pessimistic as we may have thought he was. He was right. Even though it did hurt Endorna's feelings, he was right.
- [91:56]
Kinsey
After Mira shows up and everyone is about to break apart to work on different tasks, we get a moment where Bode is clearly excluded and feels inferior. Bode asks anything I should know about and Brandon says we're good and then Bode says, good to feel needed. So I feel like this could be motivation for either turning into Zaden's new brother at the end because he didn't feel like he had enough, or. Hannah, you're gonna be super proud of me. This could be an example of I look in people's windows.
- [92:28]
Hannah
Aww. His Taylor Swift song. Yeah, no, it is.
- [92:31]
Kinsey
Because he's like an outsider. He's not needed. And he's like, gee, thanks. So that's my little Easter egg for Bode.
- [92:37]
Hannah
Good job.
- [92:39]
Kinsey
Thanks. I'm learning.
- [92:41]
Carly
And finally, let's talk theories. Time for your signet sparring professors to help you hone your farsight and precognition signets. Sorry Zaddy isn't here to give you special treatment.
- [92:55]
Hannah
Darn.
- [92:56]
Kinsey
First theory. I think General Melgren is Vennon. I will not let this go. During the scenario meeting, Violet's power rose up and hummed whenever she spoke to General Milgren. This tends to happen when Violet is around a Venon. But she could have also just been very angry and emotional in this moment, and she doesn't have the conduit to help her with control. Alright, a fun theory of mine about one of my favorite characters. I think Imogen mind wiped Zaden and Violet to play Wing Woman. So Violet worked out with Imogen the night before Spicy Time. And Violet did not remember falling asleep or remember when Zayden went to bed. They both slept for the first time in weeks. Zayden and Violet both temporarily forgot their circumstance until Spicy Time came crashing down on them after the fact. When Violet asks why nobody knocked on their door, Imogen said they needed to get some sleep. And later on, Imogen says she wanted to make sure that Violet was getting her sleep. So maybe she made them forget so that they could actually sleep and. Or get it.
- [94:05]
Carly
I love this, Theri. I love it.
- [94:06]
Hannah
It also could make sense why she was so scared that Zaden slipped and killed Violet. Yeah, that's why I was like, hesitant to buy into it, because I thought it was suspicious. Especially it's like literally the same sentence that it's mentioned in. But then I was like, she seemed really against that. Maybe she was just like, hurry up with whatever's gonna happen.
- [94:23]
Kinsey
Yeah, if it happens, it happens. At least they're happy.
- [94:28]
Carly
So y'all know I have a theory that Jack is intrinsic. I've mentioned it in another episode. I actually think we got a little more evidence for this in these chapters. Because Jack tells Zaden, let's just say that silver hair that has you so besoded will be gray like the rest of her. How does Jack know that Zaden is so obsessed with Violet's hair?
- [94:50]
Kinsey
I don't know, but I don't like it.
- [94:52]
Carly
I know nobody likes this theory, but I'm just saying, it just seems suspicious to me that we still don't know what his original signet was before he turned. This just seems very suspicious that he knows this about Zaden.
- [95:05]
Hannah
I don't dislike it. Like the theory that he's intensic, but I don't know that I buy this as evidence for it, only because I feel like it's just like it's what's unique about Violet. So that must be what, something that he likes about her. So I don't know. Maybe that's just too simplified of a version of it.
- [95:22]
Kinsey
Maybe Jack is attracted to Violet and he thinks her hair is hot, too, so he's just assuming that Zayden finds it hot.
- [95:28]
Carly
I don't think he is attracted to her. I think he just sees her as weak. But I guess maybe it's just something that he just assumes. But it's so oddly specific because it is this thing that Zaden is super obsessed with. There's so many features he could have called out, but he is oddly obsessed with her hair, so I find it suspicious. And next Taryn says, stop denying the truth. His soul is no longer his own. The language here, it leads me to believe that souls don't die. I think they are held by a God. Rebecca Yarros has said that it's an exchange. I know they say that their soul dies, but I think they're held by a God.
- [96:13]
Hannah
So I didn't jump to assuming it was, like, a God in general. My first thought actually was Berwin, because then his soul is going somewhere. It seems to be tied to them. But then I was like, wait, Malik. Because I had the same thought process of it dying. So I just went straight to Malak. And I think it would make a lot of sense.
- [96:31]
Carly
Yeah. When I think it's Leathan says, like, the soul dies or whatever, I'm like, well, what if it's just held by death?
- [96:39]
Hannah
Who could potentially be trying to curry favor with Violet, Potentially, who already kind.
- [96:46]
Kinsey
Of favors Violet because he gifted her with Liam as a kindness.
- [96:51]
Hannah
The only thing is, I don't think it would make a ton of sense if Malik could just give it back, maybe on an individual level. But I think the end goal is curing all Venons, so finding some way to cure them all. And I don't see that being. But that's also a rabbit hole.
- [97:08]
Kinsey
I don't see it as being given back. It's probably like a trait because you gotta keep that balance. So maybe they have to sacrifice somebody else's soul or kill somebody.
- [97:18]
Hannah
Actually, I feel like that would be contradictory to.
- [97:22]
Kinsey
But it could also be killing somebody. So maybe if you kill a bad person, you're technically giving Malik a soul so you can get your piece of the soul back.
- [97:30]
Hannah
I don't know why. I see it as. It has to be a positive thing to counter the negative of stealing and losing your soul. It has to be a good de, not a double negative.
- [97:39]
Kinsey
You could kill General Eidos, and that would be a very big positive.
- [97:43]
Hannah
So there's stipulations now on the theory.
- [97:45]
Kinsey
Yeah. Well, that's like, it could be a bad person.
- [97:48]
Hannah
You have to be a bounty hunter.
- [97:49]
Kinsey
Yeah. Be like, oh, they suck, so let's kill them, and then I can get my soul back.
- [97:54]
Carly
I still think it's going to involve, like, restoring balance to magic in some way that that is going to be part of this exchange. But. Yeah.
- [98:04]
Hannah
Do you think that contradicts the theory that Venin and dragons are counters to each other, that they balance the magic? Because if the end goal is no Venon, then is that not balanced with the dragons holding the only ability to wield magic?
- [98:26]
Carly
Well, the dragons, they don't wield the signets, though. The people do. So I think how this all got out of balance in the first place was by bonding and creating signets in the first place. So I think part of restoring that balance to magic might be losing that.
- [98:43]
Hannah
So no more bonded riders, no more bonded writers. That's not fun.
- [98:49]
Carly
I know.
- [98:50]
Kinsey
Well, I think they don't need to save anybody besides Zaden and the brothers, so they can just save them and then kill everybody else.
- [98:58]
Hannah
Oh, wow. Wow.
- [99:01]
Kinsey
Like, the other Venin don't want to be cured. So I think they're fine.
- [99:05]
Hannah
So you're saying anyone who, like, turned for love has a chance, but if you didn't, then you just sol.
- [99:11]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [99:12]
Hannah
I don't know. With how much Rebecca talks about how all villains, you know, she writes them to have to be able to have empathy. I feel like it's gonna be a little bit more than that. I think there's some way that it's gonna be curable or. Yeah, I guess death. They gotta eliminate them somehow, right?
- [99:28]
Carly
Yeah. I definitely think there has to be a way to, again, just restore balance to the situation where we keep Getting these more and more powerful sides just. It's like an arms race of abilities. And I think that has to be balanced out.
- [99:44]
Kinsey
How are the riders not gonna die like Violet nearly died when Andarna broke the bond to her?
- [99:50]
Hannah
It would have to be the Irids that severed those bonds or that do go.
- [99:54]
Kinsey
Once Taryn told her to breathe and he brought her back and he was trying to make up for that absence. So like, I don't know, a huge sacrifice.
- [100:03]
Carly
Like everybody. Yeah.
- [100:05]
Hannah
She's just gonna kill everyone at the end for the sake of no one having magic. Is that what you're thinking about?
- [100:10]
Carly
I don't think it's how it's going to end. I think that there's pieces to this we still don't have that will make it all work. But I think if you have an arms race of people with signets who gain more and more power and that's naturally going to lead them to want more and more power. You also have these venin that want more and more power. And how do you balance that other than not letting people have power? The last item I have to mention in our theory section is the storms, which I know we talked about earlier and I said I would loop back around too. So I just want to mention that I think the storms are very prevalent. Beginning in Fourth Wing, there's the storm on Parapet. And then we have a bunch of storms in Iron Flame. And then we also have these really, really, really intense storms in Onyx Storm where both Violet and Zaden's emotional state, it's just more and more desperate to save people and to stay alive. And there's just more and more turmoil within both of them. I think these storms are tied to a God that are tied to either Violet or Zaden or both, and that it is in some sort of reaction to their emotional state.
- [101:25]
Kinsey
Any God in particular?
- [101:27]
Carly
I'm not sure which. I feel like I have too many on my list of suspects at this point. I will say after you pointed out that blue sky moment after Theophany leaves, I will also say that's the first time that Zaden also let her back into his mind.
- [101:42]
Kinsey
True.
- [101:43]
Carly
So I think there might be some chaos that was resolved in both of them by having their bond again. So just another possibility. And I'm knowing Rebecca Yarros in book four, we're gonna find out it's something totally different that we had no idea even existed. But this is where I'm leaning towards at this point.
- [102:02]
Kinsey
We will be on weather watch from here on out.
- [102:05]
Carly
Yes. Weather report every week.
- [102:08]
Kinsey
Yes. Stay tuned for your weekly weather updates and that wraps up our first deep dive episode of Onyx Storm Prologue through Chapter 4. Thank you so much for listening. Before we go, we want to give a special shout out to our newest Feathertail Patreon members April C. Michelle P. Rachel P. M Barber, Jillian G, Sam R, Tracy F and Joey K. Thank.
- [102:31]
Hannah
You all for supporting the podcast and for helping us continue to create high quality content. If you'd like to hear your name in a future episode, you can join our Feather Tales Tier three and we'll make sure to shout you out in our next recorded episode Episode as a Feather Tale. You'll also get exclusive ad free full video episodes with the option of audio only, early access to our regular season episodes and PDF resources including our Fourth Wing and Iron Flame recap summaries and Carly's Onyx Storm annotations which we'll release weekly alongside our Chapters by Chapter Deep Dive plus more if you would like to join but would prefer to keep your name private, just let us know. You can check out our Patreon linked in the show notes to see all of the perks across all three tiers. We also have a base tier for general support donations as well. And if Patreon isn't for you, there are still plenty of ways to help support us. Leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify subscribing, recommending us to your fellow Empyrean readers, and simply tuning in to each episode goes so far.
- [103:32]
Carly
Thank you again for listening. Don't forget to join us for our next episode where we Deep Dive Chapters five through eight. If you haven't already, check out our first season Chapter by Chapter's Deep Dive on Fourth Wing through the Lens of Iron Flame. There are over 30 hours of binge worthy content to explore where we pick up all of the things that Iron Flame changed about Fourth Wing, including all the times Zaden used his intrinsic abilities.
- [103:51]
Kinsey
As always, we encourage you to email us all of your thoughts, theories and suggestions. Feel free to DM us on Instagram or join us over on our free Discord Group chat. If you have enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. It would mean the world to us.
- [104:04]
Hannah
Until next time, Dearest fantasy readers, Prepare yourselves to commit treason as we continue our journey through the Empyrean series.
- [104:15]
Kinsey
Yay.
- [104:16]
Carly
First Deeper we're native.
- [104:23]
Hannah
Yeah. So Onyx Storm has a triangle. Not triangle, that is not a triangle.
- [104:28]
Kinsey
A diamond.
- [104:29]
Hannah
So you could see that Onyx Storm has a diamond.
- [104:32]
Carly
We know Peter Cut that out.
- [104:34]
Hannah
Cut it out.
- [104:36]
Kinsey
He's like, this bitch. Failed geometry.
- [104:39]
Hannah
Took it. So anyways.
- [104:46]
Aaron Manke
Marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.