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Dear Fantasy Reader
Ep. 4 Onyx Storm Deep Dive: Ch. 5-8 | Easter Eggs, Theories & Key Moments
02:18:20
Join your favorite Quest Squadmates—Hannah, Kinsey, and Karly—as they dive deep into chapters 5-8 of Rebecca Yarros' captivating fantasy, Onyx Storm! First, they'll journey into the Archives Vault for a quick chapter recap before diving...
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- [00:01]
Violet Sorrengail
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- [00:27]
Ryan Reynolds
You are no dummy, but you're kind of acting like one. You used to crush it in school, outsmarting opponents on the field, and now, well, you're still smart, but not exactly challenging yourself. You could be advancing nuclear engineering in the world's most powerful navy. You were born for it. So make the smart choice. You can be smart or you can be nuke smart. Become a nuclear engineer@navy.com nukesmart America's Navy.
- [00:54]
Kinsey
Forged by the Sea Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what big wireless does. They charge you a lot, we charge you a little. So naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch $45 upfront.
- [01:20]
Violet Sorrengail
Payment equivalent to $15 per month New customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees, extra speed slower above 40 gigabyte dearest fantasy readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.
- [01:41]
Hannah
I'm Kinsey.
- [01:42]
Carly
And I'm Carly.
- [01:43]
Violet Sorrengail
Join us as we take flight into the world of the Empyrean series, diving deep into Onyx Storm, breaking down characters, scenes, foreshadowing and lore, fangirling over shadow daddies building theories as we go, and more.
- [02:00]
Carly
With that content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everything in Perion series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarros has given us. So if you haven't read 4th Wing, Iron Flame and Onyx Storm in its entirety, go do that and we will be here waiting when you are done.
- [02:14]
Hannah
Also, due to the nature of these books, this podcast is Rated R in content and language.
- [02:19]
Violet Sorrengail
As Rebecca Yarros says, readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please take note and prepare to face the storm. We have dragons to ride. One quick housekeeping note just before we jump right in. If you haven't listened to our initial thoughts and reactions episode. For all of Onyx Storm, please go do that first before you continue with our deep dive. I think it will give you a lot of context on our own perspectives and things that we may not be talking about or why we're going deeper into certain things. If you have an understanding of where we came from and our thoughts on reading Onyx Storm this week's Star of.
- [03:05]
Carly
Navarre Award for a review that made our hearts Soar goes to Alabamahanna7, who wrote absolutely Amazing. I had to finish reading both books before chiming into these debunks and stuff that I didn't realize until now, which is awesome. Keep up the good work ladies.
- [03:19]
Violet Sorrengail
Thank you.
- [03:20]
Carly
Thank you so much Alabama Hannah 7, if you are also enjoying the show, please consider leaving us a review. It's a small thing that makes a big difference.
- [03:28]
Violet Sorrengail
It really does. All right, first objective breaking into the Archives vault for a summary report of chapters five through eight with our squad mate Kinsey. As a reminder, if you don't need a refresh and would like to jump ahead, you can find the timestamps for each section down in our show.
- [03:49]
Hannah
Notes the squad is in the gathering hall when they are alerted that Ara Binhaven, a wing leader, is forcing a challenge on a first year Griffon Flyer. Knowing that a drop of Flyer blood could halt any chance of a peace treaty between Navarre and Peromiel, the squad springs into action. Violet yells for Dane as Codex requires another wing leader to step in and he follows Violet out to the courtyard. Tensions are high with Griffin Flyers and Nevarian Riders hurling accusations at each other. Even though Dane attempts to de escalate the situation, Mob mentality quickly takes over. Arra calls them traitors for allying with the Griffin Flyers and accuses the Orion Riders of bringing the Venon attack onto Basgaeth by fracturing their riot and leaving them vulnerable. Ara attempts to force a challenge with Dain, who refuses. When Violet realizes that Aurra is planning to wield fire against Dain, she intervenes, accepting that she is the most powerful writer in the quadrant. So Violet uses her lightning to demonstrate exactly that. Violet gives a speech defending the Orion Riot and the Griffon Flyers, explaining that the Flyers have fought by their side for months, even after they've spent centuries condemning their people to death because Navarre was unwilling to share the one resource that could have saved them. She calls the Nevarian writers out, warning them that if they don't work together, choosing both the people of Navarre and Peromiel, they will be the last riders and flyers on the continent. Devera, Amaterio and Kaori intervene and Amaterio informs them that the Great War was the last time a Shadow wielder and a Lightning wielder fought side by side. He explains that they drove the Venom back into the Barrens and that he's confident they can do it again. Brennan, Llewellyn and Meera arrive to inform Violet that while her mission to find the lost Den is moving forward, Prince Halden will be going with them. The Cenarium also refused Violet's demand to alter the Wardstone to allow the Flyers to wield and stay at Basgiath. Needing this to happen to secure her deal with Tokarys, Violet resorts to Plan B. Treason Zaden reveals to Violet that his title as Duke of Tyrandor has been restored, giving him a seat at the Cenarium. Concerned for what could become of Tyrandor should he lose the rest of himself to being Venon, he makes Violet promise to keep Tyrandor safe from him. On to Plan B. Treason Violet, Ree, Riddick, Imogen, Maren, Quinn and Bode work together to sneak Sawyer out of the infirmary. Quinn stays behind to make sure no one notices that Sawyer is missing and the rest of the squad head to the Wardstone. They are intercepted by both Brennan and Meera, who attempt to dissuade Violet of her plan to alter the Wards, but then ultimately decide to join her efforts. Sawyer manipulates the Iron Wardstone with his Metallurgist Signet, first removing a rune that does not lift the restriction against the Flyers magic, but he successfully removes a second rune that does allow the Flyers to wield at battle. Brief the following day, Devera announces that leadership negotiated to welcome the Flyers at Basgaeth and that Dane is reinstated as wing leader of 4th Wing. Yes, but Violet's relief is short lived when Colonel wait, General fucking Eidos arrives, disowning his son and charging Violet with none other than treason. So Violet is taken to the Scenarium for trial, where she finds the newly appointed member Justin Rider. Black Zaden tells her through their bond that the accord was signed that morning, allowing for the Eretian riot to stay and pardoning all of the Eretian riders. Violet confidently confesses to her treasonous act, revealing that she could not be punished as they had just pardoned her with that accord. Queen Maria of Peromiel, impressed by Violet's actions to keep the flyers safe, offers her access to her library in addition to Viscount Tokarys, which Violet earned by fulfilling her bargain to keep the flyers at Basgayath. General Eidos, incensed that Violet was not punished, sends her and her squad to an active outpost on the front lines for 48 hours in retribution. My goodness, that was a struggle.
- [07:55]
Violet Sorrengail
Grab your leathers, Quest squad, as we are officially committing treason. Can you tell that we really like the word treason? Okay, yeah, yeah, we said it, like, seven times. Anyways, diving right into our analysis and discussion section, where we talk through the most important and interesting plot points and moments in this section of chapters. So we talked a lot about the Orisha and Navarian writer dynamics in the last episode, but we are thrust right into the consequences of propaganda and hormones. Now, one of the most notable moments in this section was Dane stepping up and following Violet without question when she told him she needed help. And mind you, that's all she told him. He didn't need any more context. Let's go. Let's go. Okay, Kinsey, I know as Dane's number one fan that you have some thoughts on this, so please enlighten us.
- [09:06]
Hannah
I loved it. I thought it was amazing. I already forgave him an iron flame, but just to see him instantly drop everything and just go after her. And then it even made Violet question. Like, this is what it could have been like if he had just trusted me from the very, very beginning, which I would have loved to have seen that. Unfortunately, we don't get to. But it was just so great. And then not only did he follow her and chase her out, but he was ready to go at Aura. He broke her nose. He was, like, gonna fight her. But, I mean, he tried to de Escalate the situation first, obviously. But I was all for it. I loved it. He just. For me, in that moment, I feel like, okay, this is gonna win over most of the fandom, I think.
- [09:48]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, you set me up perfectly right there. Because I think of the three of us, I was the most. Like, I had further to come around. Further to go. To come around to really appreciating Daena's character. I do want to talk a little bit more about him stepping up with Arrah, that whole situation. We'll save that part. But this exact set of chapters really shaped and changed my perspective on Dane. And it started right here. I was reading it, and I thought he didn't even hesitate. That stood out to me so much. It was such a notable moment, and it really set the pace for my perspective on Dane, this set of. For the rest of the book.
- [10:25]
Carly
Quite frankly, I had similar feelings about Dane in this section as you all Did. I watched this, and it just really felt like what I had wanted from Dane, which was to watch him give Violet trust, even if that trust wasn't being matched because he was having such a hard time trusting in her, even when she was trusting in him. And, like, it was like he wanted things from her he wasn't willing to give her, which was really frustrating to me. In Force Wing and Iron Flame, I understood Dain. I didn't hate him. I feel like so much of the fandom did. I understood him, but there was a lot of wanting her to completely trust him while he didn't trust her. And now it's switched. She doesn't fully trust him, and he's gonna give her all the trust and faith. And I loved seeing that flip where he's like, I have to be the person that steps up and does this and make up for the mistakes of the past and be that person for her. I just really loved it. So I think we really got to see that here.
- [11:27]
Violet Sorrengail
You're exactly right. And I really like that you used the word faith, because that's the word that Violet used to describe it. And we've talked about this a couple times throughout our episodes for the last couple months now. But really, it was never the act of him stealing the memory. It really was the lack of faith in her. And so this was just. I thought it would take me more, but between this set of chapters and AIs here. Done for.
- [11:59]
Carly
Yeah, Dane, AIs here. Atos, man. We're here for it.
- [12:03]
Hannah
It was just like, what do you need? I'm here. I'll do it. I'll be by your side. Let's go.
- [12:08]
Carly
Yep.
- [12:09]
Hannah
Like, oh, great.
- [12:11]
Carly
It was like, chef's kiss. Perfect. It was just a delicious little scene, and I absolutely loved it.
- [12:17]
Violet Sorrengail
I have a chef's kiss line. I'll wait. It's for the next Dane discussion.
- [12:22]
Carly
All right, that's fine. I just find it very interesting that Dane tried to de escalate. Writers are not specifically trained to de escalate.
- [12:32]
Violet Sorrengail
So Rhaenick tells us as much.
- [12:33]
Carly
Yeah, no, I mean, he makes it very clear. Like, this is, like, this is just not something we're trained to do. So why do you guys think that this was his game plan in this moment?
- [12:44]
Hannah
Well, for one, they're extremely desperate for a peace treaty.
- [12:48]
Carly
Yeah, he.
- [12:49]
Violet Sorrengail
In that moment, they knew. I mean, Violet even tells us, like, one drop of blood and, like, those. The peace treaty's done for. So I think that was mostly it. I think we've also seen Daen trying to step up and be a leader to Nevarian expectations. And I think that this might have been a more level headed leader that we've finally gotten to see in Daen, which is also really refreshing. But my first interpretation of that line was mostly that Rebecca was using it to point out to us, the reader, that this whole situation was an inevitable product of Bezgaeth training them as weapons and how they didn't train them to de escalate. But that was like a means of also continuing to control them because if the writers don't have the ability to deescalate, then they don't have time to then stop think and organize themselves against Navarre.
- [13:44]
Carly
Yeah, I really agree with that. And you had said that he's very level headed in this scene. And I also want to say, like well rounded, like he's a very well rounded leader that we're starting to really see here. And I also want to point out we see Dan at the end of Iron Flame, kind of briefing people in battle brief right before the attack of the Venon on Bazga. And it really was giving me Brennan vibes, the way he would walk people through things and the way Brennan is a tactician. And to me, this was such a tactician move that I think we're starting to see how there are some Brennan characteristics being mirrored in Dane. And I think this is actually gonna be a really important part of his character arc and for the series. So I find it very interesting.
- [14:28]
Hannah
I like that I did not notice the similarities between him and Brennan. So interesting.
- [14:35]
Violet Sorrengail
I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense if we think about it from Rebecca's perspective that she. First of all, she really wants us to like him. He is not gonna be. He is probably. Out of all of the characters, I now trust Dane the most because I know how hard Rebecca rides for him and she's not gonna let him do anything else questionable because of how rabid the fan base can be about it.
- [14:56]
Carly
Yeah.
- [14:57]
Violet Sorrengail
And I say that unironically because I know we do not trust Brennan very much, but I think that what she's trying to do is set him up to be the leader that she wants us to see in him. Now, whether he gets to do that very long before she kills him off, I don't know the answer to that. Yeah, never Book four or five.
- [15:18]
Hannah
Yeah. So Aurra does challenge Dain and Violet steps in when she realizes that Aurra is going to wield against him, knowing that Dane does not have an offensive signet. What did you think of this scene.
- [15:30]
Violet Sorrengail
This is the line I was holding onto. I like to term this Dain's Codex character arc because the way that he stepped up, battling with lines from the Codex, but this time in favor of maybe not what's literally intended, but, like, for what is right, was kind of hot. Yeah, I said it. I finally said it.
- [15:56]
Hannah
Article four, section four.
- [15:58]
Violet Sorrengail
Like, that used to grate on my nerves. And the jokes about the Codex were very, like, came from an annoyed place. But now it's like, Dane and his Codex. Dane and the Codex. But I really liked that we got to see him not step in front of Violet necessarily, but stand up because it was up to him. He was in a position where he was the only wing leader, and he was not even a fool by Nevarian standards at that point. Wing leader. So that's where we saw this rift where Ara wasn't really respecting him as a wing leader, but it was really, really nice to see him know that he was trying to de escalate, but he was also standing in what was right, regardless of what the Nevarian leadership and writers thought of him. And that was really nice to see. Something I did think was really notable in how Dain was going about it is that you saw him really leaning into what was still honorable by Codex means. But then Violet, when she saw that Arrah was not really respecting that right, she was about to wield fire against, first of all, a memory wielder, but also how, you know, that's supposedly against the Codex. And then we have this line from Violet where she is like, I used to be like that, but my morals have shifted slightly. Not to say that they're not still good morals. They just have a different perspective now. And I freaking love that moment for her. She was so confident in it. The dagger. The dagger moment with the glove. Absolutely. Chef's kiss. And I thought that this was really, really important to see for not just Danes, but also Violet's character development.
- [17:43]
Hannah
And this scene, we already know is important for us readers as well, but it was also important for Violet because she realized in that moment, we are friends. I accept you. You're my ally.
- [17:53]
Violet Sorrengail
It just. Yep.
- [17:55]
Hannah
Oh, I loved it. Everything was so good about this scene. It was the best.
- [17:58]
Violet Sorrengail
It was such a good scene. And I think that's why we're like, there's so many aspects of it that we really enjoyed.
- [18:03]
Carly
It really does also just, like, set up for her stepping into leadership roles. Like, it's great to see her confident. It's great to see her not backing down, but I also like to see her kind of stepping more into this leadership role that we know that she's going to get somewhat drug into. That's an understatement. Yeah.
- [18:22]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah.
- [18:23]
Carly
But I like this moment because I feel like it really sets her up to know that she can if she needs to, and that she has that ability.
- [18:31]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, I think also you could hear her inner dialogue. She was very adamantly against even wanting to do that.
- [18:37]
Carly
Yeah.
- [18:37]
Violet Sorrengail
She had to be talked basically into it by Andarna, calling her the strongest rider of the quadrant. And it's like, girl, we've had two books of this so far. You really just now are coming. But I. I'm glad she did. Right. Because she needed that to be able to get to whatever she. You know, we are walking into book four. That's inevitable. Right. And I think that clearly that was something that Rebecca intended us to pick up on. She did say in a Q and A last year that Violet would have a moment toward the beginning of Onyx Storm where she had to step into her own power and come to terms with the fact that she's the most powerful writer of her generation and that she couldn't rely on Zaden's charm for the situation. And this is exactly what she was referring to. And I think it's really interesting that at first she was thinking about Zaden and, like, wish he would put his shields down and how quiet Taryn was. Like, first of all, Taryn was absolutely encouraging her to just figure it out on her own there and go, dad.
- [19:39]
Hannah
Yeah. He was like, are you in danger? Okay, then you'll handle it. Bye.
- [19:42]
Carly
Yeah, I did love Taryn in that moment where he was like, I don't have time for this nonsense.
- [19:48]
Violet Sorrengail
Oh, absolutely. Well. And I think also her speech was important to tell the readers what was going on, you know, especially if you didn't do a reread. It was great refresher on why exactly the Eretian writers and flyers feel the way they do and why exactly the Nevarian writers feel the way that they do. I understand where the Nevarian writers are coming from. I don't agree with it. So even if you don't agree with it, it really was the perfect way to let us in on what exactly is going on interpersonally.
- [20:19]
Carly
Yeah. It summarizes that dynamic really well.
- [20:22]
Violet Sorrengail
I mean, the speech itself.
- [20:24]
Carly
Yeah, fantastic.
- [20:25]
Violet Sorrengail
Absolutely fantastic. And I want to take a moment to talk about the reactions that Violet got from a couple of the characters to the speech. Kat Kat saying, I can see it sometimes why he chose you. I think she gets such a bad rep. She was growing on me already in Iron Flame Second half. I really love her character. I think she's misunderstood.
- [20:50]
Hannah
Definitely is. I think we were all just like, don't you dare take Zaden away from Violet. But I was like. When she said that, I was like, oh, no, I'm starting to root for you.
- [21:00]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah.
- [21:01]
Carly
I feel like Kat has a lot of growth to do and I want her to have room for that growth. She's very young. She was raised a very specific way with a very specific goal. And I think as her horizons are opening up and she's realizing that maybe there's more to the world and arranged marriages and power, that she needs to have room for that growth. I'm not there with who she is yet. I'd be interested to see how she develops in book four and five. But I think she deserves the room for growth.
- [21:27]
Violet Sorrengail
That's the perfect way to put it. She's not a favorite character.
- [21:30]
Carly
No.
- [21:31]
Violet Sorrengail
But I enjoy her and I'm really excited to see more of her, of where she goes, especially if it's with Auric moving on. Just speaking of Auric, I did not even intentionally set myself up like that, but here we are. So Arric's reaction had me. Well, it's like a duo between Arrik and Satan. Here they this, these two lines, okay, Arryk, she'd be a great politician or a general maybe. Definitely nobility. Already had me kicking and squealing like I loved that line. And then we get hit with Zaden with that speech. At least it touches. This is why it hits me so hard at the end when we don't get the on page wedding. All right. When I saw this line, I was already like, let's fucking go. He's going to propose. I did not expect it in the slightest bit to be book three, but I was like, oh my God, the next book is going to be so good.
- [22:34]
Carly
And now you're just scared.
- [22:38]
Violet Sorrengail
I'm so pissed. But it's fine anyway. It was such a good. A good line, but also wholly foreshadowing. It's really Violet's response I do want to talk about here. Because she says, no thank you to any of that. I have no love for politics, nor am I good at dealing with the scenarium. Her whole speech and this exact convo were huge clues for the end of the book. And based on how she handled the situation with the writers, do you think that Violet will actually be any good with the politics that come with her new title going into book four.
- [23:19]
Carly
I don't know that she is going to have the patience for it that she needs yet. She still has a really hard time controlling her emotions, which, again, she's 21, so I get it. But that being said, it's gonna be really interesting to see how she approaches this. I think she could be really good at it. I just don't know that she wants to be.
- [23:46]
Violet Sorrengail
No, she doesn't want to be.
- [23:47]
Carly
Yeah.
- [23:47]
Violet Sorrengail
And I think it's a really interesting parallel to Bodhi.
- [23:50]
Hannah
Neither one of them wants anything to do with it. And now she's just thrust into this role that she's never had any training for. She doesn't know how to be a politician. She's probably just going to use her dragons for leverage like the entire time.
- [24:02]
Violet Sorrengail
That might get old.
- [24:04]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [24:05]
Violet Sorrengail
She's going to lean on Brennan a lot. And that's why I'm hesitant to think that if he is venon that we'll get any sort of reveal like that at first because I think that he's gonna be integral. And in Rebecca pulling this together in a way that is not just entirely chaotic, but she also has Llewellyn and Lindell. So I think that between the three, there's a reason that before the battle at Dreythis, they were specifically mentioned as being gone. So Zayn had to make all those decisions right then on his own. I think that was somewhat also preparing us for the fact that, like, it's still gonna be possible for Violet to not have to be in tyrandor all the time. Like, there's still people who will be handling some of the things for her. I don't know that I'd be super interested in hearing, like, reading a full book on all of the intricate politics of leading tyrandor. So I like that Rebecca left that open for there to be some guidance.
- [25:00]
Hannah
There's also still the assembly as well. So she's not gonna make all the decisions. Hopefully they still vote on it. So she will have people to guide her. But I'm not really sure how she'll handle the politics, to be quite honest.
- [25:13]
Violet Sorrengail
I think the patience part is really, really. And her resenting it and all while she's trying to, I'm sure, find Zaden, even though he said not to like, her goal is still him. That's not gonna change. I can't imagine that. But she'll also be able to empathize a lot with the responsibility that he's had on his shoulders last.
- [25:32]
Carly
Well, and I also think it's gonna be really important to her to take care of Tyrandor for him. Like, she gave him her word, and she knows how important it is to him. He talks about the only thing he loves more than Orisha is her. She knows how important it is to him. So I know that she will try to take care of it as best as she can. I do think her anger and her temper are going to get in the way of that at times. But I do think she's going to make, you know, a concerted effort to do right by Tyrandor for Zaden. Cause she knows how important it is to him.
- [26:09]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. I definitely see it more in not like a Halden leader with his anger.
- [26:16]
Carly
Oh, no.
- [26:17]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. No, I don't think that's what you were saying. But just to articulate it, I think I see more of the Auric leader, of how he doesn't want it either.
- [26:25]
Carly
Yeah.
- [26:25]
Violet Sorrengail
But, like, it's often the people who don't want it who are best for it. And I think that's one of these situations. I think she's gonna do a great job. That's gonna be part of her character arc. So let me be clear. But I think she's going to struggle for sure with the patience and anger and things that come with it.
- [26:39]
Carly
Yeah. And just to clarify really quick about the anger, the difference there, Halden's anger comes from entitlement.
- [26:44]
Violet Sorrengail
Oh, yeah.
- [26:45]
Carly
And Violet's is very much just frustration with the situation.
- [26:49]
Violet Sorrengail
I'd be over it, too.
- [26:51]
Carly
Yeah. Just to be clear, like, I think that's the difference there. And I think not coming from a place of entitlement and putting people before yourself, it comes across very differently when you're frustrated.
- [27:02]
Violet Sorrengail
Oh, yeah. Well, you actually set us up perfectly. Because speaking of Halden, we get clues about Halden before we really know who he. Who exactly he is to Violet in this set of chapters, how he's now involved in Quest Squad. I have a ton to say about this. I have to know, though, what was going through your heads when you read it? Because I was squealing this alongside the epigraph from Lilith to Asher confirmed for me my Halden theory was correct and that he was an ex. And I audibly squealed, like, with so much joy.
- [27:41]
Carly
I think Kenzie and I were both texting you, like, let us know when you get to this chapter's epigraph. Because we knew you were gonna freak out, and we wanted to make sure you were recording your reaction. I think, which I'm not sure if.
- [27:52]
Violet Sorrengail
That happened, but I haven't posted it. I'll have to post it because we.
- [27:57]
Carly
Still didn't know, I think, at that point, if he was a twin. And so at that point, I was still concerned. I was like, please don't tell me there's going to be some crazy age gap along with the fact that he's next in line for the throne. So there's this power imbalance. And I was worried about having both of those. But obviously those fears were dissuaded. I will say, from a character perspective, what doesn't still quite make sense to me at this point is that back in Iron Flame, when she realizes that Zaden could be the Duke of Tyrandor, she kind of freaks out about that. It's very overwhelming to her to be with somebody who's going to be the Duke of Tyrandor potentially someday. And I'm like, but you were with the next king of the country.
- [28:41]
Violet Sorrengail
So that is why I was really convinced that the part of what I was buying into with the Halden theory, which I did not come up with on my own, but I leaned into it heavily. You'll know that if you've watched our episodes before. But part of it was using that as evidence. And I really did. I was gonna say this, but I really did expect that to be the reason that they weren't able to stay together. And I was really intrigued by seeing the dynamic of, you know, what if he left her, she knew they couldn't be together. He wasn't allowed to, like, date someone that wasn't of nobility. And now he's back and claiming, well, you're the strongest rider of your generation. Like, that's equivalent in some capacity to nobility. Like, let's make an alliance. Which what I think would have been really intriguing. I was really surprised also that that didn't seem to play a big part in any of her, like, feelings or their dynamic or why they were, like. It just wasn't really mentioned much. I still think it's related. I think it was still a clue. But I'm really surprised that we didn't get any more of that contemplation on her part.
- [29:45]
Hannah
Well, at this point, she's already smitten by Zaden, so it doesn't matter if he's the next king or the duke or whatever. She's in it to win it. She's sticking by her man.
- [29:53]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. I want to clarify not in her present, but in, like, their dynamic in the past. Like, I would have expected, instead of the cheating for the reasons to have been related to her anxieties. Her anxieties having been related to why they broke up and they seemed separate.
- [30:13]
Carly
Yeah. That's where it kind of just got disconnected with her character motivations in Iron Flame. And then looking further in the past, where she seems very overwhelmed by this possible future for Zaden, where I'm like, if you were dating the next prince and you were brokenhearted over how it ended because he cheated on you, those two things just does seem like they don't line up to me.
- [30:35]
Violet Sorrengail
I could see it being maybe related to, oh, he cheated. I wasn't good enough. If it had not been with just a professor.
- [30:44]
Carly
Yeah.
- [30:45]
Violet Sorrengail
And like a princess.
- [30:46]
Carly
Yeah.
- [30:47]
Violet Sorrengail
Okay. There's the insecurities for not being nobility.
- [30:50]
Carly
That would have made more sense from a character motivation standpoint. It just didn't quite line up to me.
- [30:55]
Hannah
But, yeah, when Halden was introduced, I was like, yeah, he is definitely her ex. There's no way she's not. So I was with you there, Hannah. I was really excited. But then I thought it was really funny how annoyed everybody was like, everyone was like, ah, great, he's fucking things up for us again. So I was like, where is this gonna go? And it went places. That's for sure.
- [31:17]
Violet Sorrengail
It did. And then nowhere all at once.
- [31:20]
Carly
Yep.
- [31:21]
Violet Sorrengail
Enough about Halden, though. Let's take a moment to talk about our favorite prince and his many suspicious comments in this set of chapters.
- [31:31]
Hannah
There are so many of Auric, and they have me convinced that he manifested his precognition signet as early as chapter five. So he just seemed to find himself at the right place at the right time. While Dain was arguing with Ara Bynhaven, the crowd gets distracted, and Violet moves past Nevarian riders to stand directly in front of Ara. But when Violet does this, she's surprised that Arik also does this. And she's suspicious. Yeah. She's like, what is he doing? Why is he beside me? So I just think, like, why would he know? That's the opportune moment. Then Arryk also makes comments like, really missing the professors right now. And that's a choice. He's going to talk her down. As if he was surprised by Dain's decision because maybe he saw, like, an alternative path and by Dain choosing to do something else that kind of, like, changed the future. Then Arik also says, I think our boy is losing this one. He's good, but he's no Ryerson, which I love. That part he did lose. And he literally warns Violet he can't win the crowd. She's going to really.
- [32:36]
Violet Sorrengail
It was like, almost like everything he said in this set of chapters was like, that could be a signet. Because, of course, we have the politician and duchess line that we referenced earlier, which was in itself. There's no way that wasn't. It's definitely foreshadowing, but there's no way that wasn't also his signet. Yeah. Which we'll come back to. But even his. Let me guess, Halden. Complicated negotiations. I was so distracted in that moment by the Halden reveal, the Easter eggs there. And that's. That is so Rebecca. To do that, you have to pay attention to the distracting techniques that she uses. And that's one of them. But I. I was wondering if he was possibly, in this time period, evading his father's guards now, because they had in that conversation, he says something about, like, the guards can't find him. But we know from the end of Iron Flame that the leadership at bestgaeth knows Nevarian leadership knows where he is. So I'm wondering if he was also using his signet to know where to avoid or if they were coming for him. So. So he wasn't caught and taken back to his dad, the king. Also, we have. I'll dismantle the family business before I join it, which, in retrospect, on a reread, I think he might be serious and not just in his aversion to the throne, but I think that that is his signature. I think he's serious. I will say I think it's more of a gut feeling, because I don't think that at this point, he knows he's manifested as a Precog. I think that this is gut feeling mixed with his training as a prince, because Rebecca said at our Q and A in Denver on the Onyx Storm tour that if we went back to look for when he manifested, there would be moments that we could tell. But she specifically said that they started as gut feelings, that he didn't recognize it yet. So I would say that many of these, personally, I think, were just gut feelings of his. I don't think he knew, and I think I'm hoping that we'll be able to tell distinctively when it switches from, oh, that was a gut feeling, to, oh, my God, he knows for sure and he's manifested. But I want to know what you guys think. Do you think these were gut feeling?
- [35:00]
Hannah
I think it was mostly a gut feeling, but Violet also Said he is the most observant out of all of his brothers. So it does make sense that he developed a Precog signet because it goes into observations. And he does. He obviously knows, like, what Holden's like. He grew up with Halden, so he's like, let me guess. He fucked it up again. Because he probably tends to do that a lot.
- [35:21]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah.
- [35:22]
Carly
But just.
- [35:22]
Hannah
I don't know. Specifically, when he goes to stand beside Violet, I think that was him definitely 100% using his signet because Violet was surprised. She wouldn't have been surprised if. I don't.
- [35:35]
Violet Sorrengail
I want to be clear. I think all of them were him actually using the signet. I just don't think he was conscious that he was yet. I think he had these gut feelings of, oh, I should probably be right here. I should step up and intervene.
- [35:46]
Hannah
Every single time he delivers these lines, he's kind of, like, giving her a smile and, like, giving her a look. And so I wonder if it's like a little inside joke for himself, too.
- [35:55]
Violet Sorrengail
Ooh. See, some of those can be explained away, like, the look that they share about Halden, but I'd have to look and see. We're going to be trying to pick up every little thing that Arc says. We're going to be like, is that him? Is that also him? Which is probably yes. Right. Like, at this point, I'm. He has it. It's just whether or not he knows.
- [36:15]
Carly
I think the real question now is gonna be not how early it was. Cause I'm with you. That I think he was getting gut feelings, at least in chapter five. But when did he realize what it was? And how long was he keeping it secret for? Cause he doesn't seem to be telling anybody.
- [36:32]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, this is two weeks after Iron Flame, right?
- [36:35]
Carly
Yeah.
- [36:35]
Violet Sorrengail
And Rebecca clarified that he had not manifested it in Iron Flame.
- [36:39]
Carly
Yeah.
- [36:40]
Violet Sorrengail
So it was now and two weeks ago.
- [36:42]
Carly
Yeah. I will point out, though, because you mentioned that leadership at Basgaeth knows that he's there. As far as I know, Lilith is the only one who saw him and then she died.
- [36:52]
Violet Sorrengail
That's true.
- [36:53]
Carly
So not to say that he's not still using these gut feelings or his signet fully to evade his dad for a while. But I think it's also possible Lilith knew and then she died and she never told anybody. So maybe no one there actually knew.
- [37:09]
Violet Sorrengail
I'd be really curious to see if we got a reference from General eitos to see if he's made a comment about recognizing Arryk. I feel like I recall that happening at some point.
- [37:22]
Hannah
I think it does. And then Llewelyn does come up to Arryk and says, don't worry, your secret's still safe. People don't know. But I think later on, General Eidos does see Arryk and he's like, you really? This is where you've been. So I think it came as a surprise to the leadership.
- [37:37]
Carly
I do wonder, though, if Lilith had lived, if she would have told anybody or if she would have kept a secret.
- [37:43]
Hannah
I'd like to think she'd keep it.
- [37:45]
Carly
I want to think she would too, actually. And I don't think super highly of Lilith. I probably among the fandom of the person who thinks the least highly of her. And I, yeah, I don't like Lilith Thorngale at all. But I want to think she actually.
- [37:59]
Hannah
Would, because what are they gonna do? Like, at that point, he's already a writer, he's already bonded. They can't take away his dragon. So at that point, she would see, well, you are quote the spare. So we'll just train you to be the best rider you can be. He's not the crown prince.
- [38:18]
Carly
I think at that point she's thinking that the dad knowing would probably cause her more problems than him not knowing. So I think she would keep a secret. I'd like to think she would, anyways. Any final thoughts on that, Hannah?
- [38:30]
Violet Sorrengail
I think I'm good. I was just surprised, from someone who really thinks about characters, motivations and backstory, that you're not the biggest fan of Lilith is all. I was stewing on that.
- [38:43]
Carly
I think, for me, it's just that Violet states that she doesn't even think that her mom loves her. And for me, if you don't believe your parents love you, your parents have failed at, like, the most basic duties of parenthood.
- [39:02]
Violet Sorrengail
That's relatable.
- [39:03]
Carly
Yeah.
- [39:04]
Violet Sorrengail
Moving on. So, Zaddy.
- [39:10]
Hannah
Yes. We find out that Zaddy has been restored as the Duke of Tirandor. And Zaden made Violet promise that she would step in and keep Tyrandor safe from him when the time comes, which we now know was heavy, heavy.
- [39:26]
Carly
Foreshadowing.
- [39:27]
Hannah
Foreshadowing. But what were your initial reactions to this?
- [39:33]
Carly
This whole scene to me was very odd because he almost seemed very cagey about telling Violet. And I'm like, this isn't a secret you can keep. This is going to be a thing that's announced. So why are you being so weird about telling her before she promises you that she'll do this mysterious thing that you want her to do. And I just found the whole thing very interesting. I thought he handled this very, I don't know, strangely. Not just strangely, but he was a bit dramatic for me in this scene, which I found surprising. I was like, you need to tow down the melodramatics, Zayden, for a moment. And I feel like I'm always the person. Well, this makes sense for him. In this moment, I'm always the person that's like, this totally makes sense. And in this moment, I'm like, let's take down the dramatics a notch. Like, let's just tell her what's going on and let her know what you need. Yeah.
- [40:27]
Hannah
I did not like where this was going. I started this book thinking they're gonna find a cure if there is one. Once we got to this point with how insistent he was like, you gotta keep Tyrindor safe. You gotta tell people if I, you know, am struggling or whatever at that point when he was just like, promise me. Promise. Like, because he asked her multiple times to promise him, I was just like, oh, shit, he's gonna lose it, isn't he? So for me, this just told me, like, this is not going in a positive direction that I want it to. I wasn't like, so much like, oh, my God, he's the Duke. I was more so like, oh, fuck, he's gonna really turn. Like, fall venom.
- [41:08]
Violet Sorrengail
Unfortunately, same delusional me, which was the majority of me. Let me be very clear. I let that kind of take over and lead the way. Was feeling like he was being so overwhelmingly negative. It was just like he was not trying to find a solution on a reread. I'm like, oh. Like, okay, maybe he was the sane one here, but I do recall once she made that promise, I was like, fuck, that's gonna come back. That's setting up for her to be forced to actually do it. I wasn't necessarily thinking in terms of, like, taking over leadership of Tyrandor. I was thinking what he meant about, like, if I get to that point, you know, off me.
- [41:47]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [41:48]
Violet Sorrengail
And I was like, oh, fuck. I no longer think this was just Zayden being dramatic. I think Rebecca was being literal is what I was scared of. I do think it was really sad, though, because if we think about how he spoke about almost like a yearning, it was a responsibility that he'd never like. It wasn't an entitlement. It was like, almost a yearning to be the Duke of at least Orisha, right in the last books. And knowing, having a sense of, like, that was what his. His duty was, what he was supposed to do. But then you have it entirely flip in this conversation where he doesn't want it. He seems terrified of it. He can't even come out with it and just tell her. And it's because he's venom. And that's fucking sad. Especially when he had a line like, my father wouldn't be proud. He'd be horrified. And I was like, oh, poor baby. Like, this sucks.
- [42:43]
Hannah
I made a Kindle note that said my Shayla.
- [42:46]
Violet Sorrengail
Of course you did.
- [42:50]
Hannah
A lot of people have been asking us about the promise that Zaden was referring to when he was talking to Sigail at the very end of chapter 65. And to me, this was that promise. It was heavy foreshadowing. Zaden Definitely 100%, without a doubt, knew what was going to happen. He says as much. And this was setting up Violet being the Duchess.
- [43:11]
Violet Sorrengail
I didn't bring this up when you said it earlier, Carly, but I want to point out that Zaden made Violet promise this to protect some, like, vague it before he ever came out and told her that he was given all of Tiran Dor and that he was the Duke. And so you talk about being cagey. I was reading this thinking there's something Rebecca didn't want Violet to ask about, because the way it was written was like, she makes this promise to protect Tirindor vaguely. And then Garrick comes in and makes this Earl of Llywelyn comment, and it's like, t should be Duke. And you start to put the pieces together, and it's like he gives her that information and then he bolts. And it's after the promise. And I just. It slightly bothers me because she didn't fully realize what she was consenting to with that promise tied with the fact that she doesn't want to be. She didn't even want to be. She even said last book to RI when RI thought she was upset about not making her squad leader or picking her for something.
- [44:24]
Hannah
Executive squad leader or something like that.
- [44:26]
Violet Sorrengail
Some role that would have been like Re's right hand. And Violet was like, I have never wanted that. Like, you picked the right person. I understand his motivations for doing it. I. I don't like the way he went about this. It almost feels manipulative. And that's not really a. That might be too strong of a word for it, but.
- [44:45]
Carly
Well, I'm wondering, though, for him, if there's a certain amount of guilt in what he is asking of her, because he Knows there's already so much on her shoulders.
- [44:56]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah.
- [44:57]
Carly
And he's having a hard time maybe even coming out and saying exactly what it is that he needs. And maybe that's a part of this. The scene did feel a little dramatic to me. But that being said, I am wondering, though, if there is just a certain amount of guilt, like he's asking more of her. He's asking something of her that he knows might be really difficult for her when there's already so much riding on Violet and Indarna figuring out a solution to so much of this problem.
- [45:24]
Violet Sorrengail
I think you're exactly right. It also doubles up with the fact that he feels guilty about not being able to handle it himself, because it's not like he hasn't wanted to. Yeah, he wanted to. He just knows he's in a position where he can't. And so I get that. It's just so strange. I don't know if it was, like, just a writing for build up to that, like, official reveal of, oh, he's duke, and then not wanting Violet to open up to a whole bunch of questions. She naturally would. So he had to get out of there. Which, again, I feel like was strange, because why would Garrick, knowing he needed to tell her that, be rushing him out in the middle of such an important conversation, given Garrick's character? So it just. Something about that scene felt very like, not necessarily a negative, but something suspicious.
- [46:10]
Carly
Is going on there. Yeah, it definitely does feel like there is a little something suspicious going on there. I know understand what you're saying. That scene is very specifically written in a way to make you feel like there's a little something more going on, and we're not sure what it is Exactly.
- [46:26]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. So at this point, Violet is running out of time and needs to do whatever she can to save the alliance between Navarre and Bormiel, which hinges on the Griffin Flyer's ability to wield magic under the wards. As we discussed last episode, Mira figured out how to alter the material of runes to remove them from a stone. Using that knowledge, Violet had a theory that Sawyer, a metallurgist, could do that with the Wardstone to remove whatever rune was blocking the Griffin's magic. So Violet, Ree, Riddick, Imogen, Merrin, Quinn, and Bode go to sneak Sawyer out of the infirmary in order to alter the Wardstone. But Sawyer is struggling with the aftermath of losing his leg and feeling unworthy of being a writer. Now, we have not had a discussion about Sawyer, so I'm really wondering overarchingly but specifically in this scene as well, what our thoughts are on Sawyer stepping up for his squad and his state of mind at this point. And really since two weeks ago when he lost his leg.
- [47:35]
Carly
I really loved Sawyer in this scene because I think it really showed the dichotomy he is dealing with. He does not feel worthy of his dragon anymore, which is a heartbreaking thing. He feels like he is a hindrance to his own squad. But when he realizes that his own squad is going to get split up, the Flyers are going to be sent away, and he considers them a part of his squad and that this hinges on his ability to do this right, then he. He finds a way to go help them. He finds it within himself that this isn't really about him in this moment. And it just shows what a good squad mate he is, that he can shift focus and go do this even when he is struggling so much. And I just think that there's a lot of really. We could have a lot of really interesting discussion around Sawyer and what he is going through, which I don't know if we want to go through that today or at a later episode, but he's going through so much. And yet in that moment, when he finds out that the Flyers are going to be sent away, he finds a.
- [48:51]
Violet Sorrengail
Way he does well. And I think we really see the peak of that later on when he is confiding in Violet about it and her accommodations with the saddle. And so I think a lot of the conversation will be. But specifically in this scene, it really does speak volumes for the fact that, like, it's not just physical that he is going through. It's so mental.
- [49:15]
Carly
Yes.
- [49:15]
Violet Sorrengail
And I really appreciated Riddick. I mean, he maybe was a little harsher, all things considered, maybe not. But, like, his delivery was still, like. It was like a tough love, which is not effective for everyone. But the way he was, like, we love you and we respect whatever, like, however you feel about this, but we need you to know that, like, we still consider you part of our squad and we need you.
- [49:39]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [49:40]
Violet Sorrengail
And as you know, squad mate to squad mate, rider to rider, that was such a beautiful moment. And seeing him really, like, put aside, and it sucks he was forced to do that, but, like, what he's going through for the sake of his squad, I think that's such a theme with the squad and this chosen family element to this series that just is so heartwarming to read.
- [50:04]
Carly
Yeah.
- [50:05]
Hannah
I loved this scene. To me, it shows that we are totally capable of accomplishing anything, even if we Suffer illnesses and are injured, and we are dealing with disabilities. I have volunteered in the past with people with disabilities in an adaptive sports program, and I have actually worked closely with people who have missing limbs or who have had spinal cord injuries. And then I've helped them to get back into sports and be able to do those activities again. And just being able to see that in the real world and then now seeing this in a fictional world, I think that Rebecca did a really good job tying it in together because you do need that support system. And they're like, grab your crutches, let's go. And then they were allowing him to lean up on them as well. But I think that she just did a really good job showing. Yeah, it sucks. I can be upset that this happened. It's harder for me to do these things that before I didn't even have to think about. And I do have to make these adjustments, but with these accommodations, I can do it, and I can do hard things. I can still be successful. I can still be a key player for my squad. And I think he just really, really needed this moment. To leave the infirmary and be like, I still have my magic. My dragon still does. Let me channel, like, it's. I really empathize with him, and I love where his story is going with this.
- [51:31]
Violet Sorrengail
I think it was really powerful. And I love that the squad would have done what they like. They know him really well. And so, because not everyone always is up for doing all of the things that they can do right and finding out that those things are possible, I think they would have respected and loved him either way and knew him enough that the words of encouragement and where they could communicate with him about what they were, like, willing to step in and help if he was willing to also take it was really important because I think that everyone reacts to situations differently and being able to see that that representation was there and that they would have respected Sawyer's wishes regardless of which way he chose or how he felt about the situation or what he needed. They were hearing him. I just loved the way she wrote it. I think it was really important.
- [52:25]
Carly
Everything about that scene with Sawyer was. I don't know if. Heartbreaking. Bittersweet. It was bittersweet. I just have so much respect for the character writing in that scene and just how he finds a way and how you can see him. Like Kenzie said, you can do hard things. And, like, everything is hard now. You know, like, getting out of bed is hard. Walking is hard. The stairs are hard. Everything is hard for him. In that scene. And he still perseveres. And I just have so much, so much respect for Sawyer and that scene.
- [53:04]
Violet Sorrengail
I think it was really important. I also totally went into this book thinking that he was gonna get his medal or just legit where he could control it. And I think it's still coming. But I really, really love that she is giving the space for representation without being adjacent to being able bodied. And it made me realize how much I was expecting that for the character almost immediately.
- [53:28]
Carly
Yeah. I don't think we can just give him this magical cure. There has to be a path that is more realistic to getting to that point where he feels like he can still find his own way to be a writer. Just like Violet did. Yeah.
- [53:44]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. Which I'm really excited for. I'm so excited for him. And I hope we get him on page more, because we really didn't in this book.
- [53:52]
Carly
Yeah. I'm definitely looking forward to more.
- [53:54]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [53:54]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [53:55]
Hannah
Mostly just Riddick in this book.
- [53:57]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. Who's complaining?
- [53:59]
Carly
Not complaining about that. Yeah. So the Treason Squad finds Meera. Yeah. Waiting for them outside the Wardstone chamber, joined shortly after by Brennan. What did we think of this reveal and how Meera and Brennan stepped up to help them alter the Wardstone?
- [54:22]
Violet Sorrengail
I was really surprised that Meera brought Brennan into it, but I was not necessarily surprised that Meera showed up.
- [54:30]
Hannah
Yeah, I was like, of course she's here. But I thought it was cool she was willing to help them. But I was just like, how did they know? When did they get there? Why is everyone at the right place at the right time with the exact signets that they need to make this mission work?
- [54:47]
Carly
That was weird.
- [54:48]
Hannah
That was really weird. And for the record, I do not think Mira is an intensic, but I did spiral a little bit on my reread of these chapters because there was a moment where Violet says, mira's eyes narrow in my direction, like she's the intensic in the room and not Satan. And then later on, Meera goes, shit is about right. And to think I figured I was overreacting when I dismissed the guards and took their place. And Violet's like, how did you know? And Meera was like, because I know you. And I was just like, how much do you know her? Mira? How much do you know her? Like, is there something else that we need to know? Like, what is going on here? So I. I don't know. I was just like, what?
- [55:27]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, to me, it read like the scene that you're talking about with Mira Intensic thought line. It read to me that Violet was acting suspicious. She went from arguing with them to suddenly relaxing her shoulders and switching to being agreeable. Which is when Mira's eyes narrowed. And then Violet was like. She gave me a look. She. The intense. I can hear. I think that was a clue for us to catch on why she would have known about Violet's plan for the Wardstone. Because Mira knew right then that she. That Violet had something up her sleeve. And of course she knew it had to do with the wards because Meera was the one doing the research on the stone and removing the rune she pieced together. There was like a reveal in the last chapter where she insinuated that like, oh, that's what you had me researching this for. So the clues were there for her to put together that like, Violet is not an agreeable girl when she does not get her way. And she's also not gonna sit down and do nothing when they're on a 12 hour timer at that point or something crazy. So I think that that explains why Meera was there. And it makes sense to me that Meera knew that Brennan would also be needed. One for Meera's own wards detection because she does. She makes sure that they're still fully raised after they temper with the runes and remove them. But also Brennan makes a comment about like him possibly being needed because he's mended a Wardstone before. Why not do it again? But you are right that Violet did seem to. All the signets I need are right here. I read it as her selecting each of the people that she brought with her, of course, minus Mira and Brennan, because she didn't think that they'd let her go through with it for specific reasons. We have Imogen to wipe the guards memories, which by the way, the reason I'm talking about this is because I love talking about the powers and I love when they're utilized on like quests and stuff. Anyways, but Bodhi was also called, who is notably not a part of their squad. Correct me if I'm wrong. He's not a part of their squad.
- [57:37]
Hannah
He's not part of their squad.
- [57:38]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. And so he was keeping watch while they were in the chamber, which like they needed someone to keep watch. Right. And she couldn't tell Zayden. She knew he would stop her for fear of bringing down the wards altogether. Which is currently the very thing, as Taryn has pointed out to us, that is keeping Violet safe from Zaden as Venon. We also have Sawyer to of course manipulate the iron in the Wardstone, Riddick to cool the melting Wardstone when it bubbled too hot. Even Merrin as a Griffin flyer to test if they took off the correct rune. So smart. Which is how they knew that the first rune was not the right one, because she couldn't wield until they removed the second one. And I kept this thought process going until I realized that technically, RI never utilized her signet in this scene. So it made me wonder. And maybe I'm stretching a bit here, but if they cracked the Wardstone, she was there as a fail safe to help Brennan, which I guess does. I just poked a hole in my own thing because Violet didn't even know Brennan would be there to amend it. So then I don't know. But I loved this scene and how all the signets got utilized. I felt like it was strategic.
- [58:47]
Carly
Yeah, I do love how they worked together here. I mostly read it as a squad thing. And, I mean, they obviously brought Bodhi in because he can counter signets, and that might have been important. Well, I know Dane's not in their squad, but I think Dane is notably missing in this scene.
- [59:01]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, especially someone so trustworthy. That's why I felt like it was signet spaced. Like they're not going to involve anyone in a treasonous act that's not absolutely necessary to the mission. Right. So what's he gonna do? Look at someone's memories?
- [59:16]
Hannah
Well, even Maren was part of this group, but she didn't know what she was doing until they literally entered the Wardstone chamber. So I think the less people they involved, the better for their cause. Just in case they were intercepted.
- [59:29]
Carly
Yeah.
- [59:30]
Violet Sorrengail
Which is, again, why I was kind of thinking it was strategic on Violet's part. But it does make sense that it's just a squad thing, minus Dane. And, of course, the flyers. Same kind of involve even more.
- [59:41]
Carly
Yeah, they were really worried about the flyers getting in really big trouble and that tanking the peace treaty, which is why they didn't tell Marin, so she couldn't be involved in treason unknowingly.
- [59:51]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, and maybe that's part of why they didn't involve Dain.
- [59:54]
Carly
No, I mean, I think that's probably why she kept it small. But personally, for me, I think Rhy is there just because we see Violet and Iron Flame struggling to keep so many secrets from Rhy. And I think for her, this is. This is a squad decision. Do we do this to keep our flyers here? And RI was involved and wasn't gonna sit back just because she wasn't Necessarily needed. So I think it just fit in with the way we see Violet treating that relationship now and being more open and honest with her squad about what's going on and the decisions she's making. And Rhy's not gonna sit back. That wouldn't fit in with her character.
- [60:23]
Violet Sorrengail
And to be clear, I'm not complaining, because we barely got Rhy in this book.
- [60:26]
Carly
Yeah.
- [60:27]
Violet Sorrengail
So any moment she is on the page. Yeah, I will take it.
- [60:31]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [60:31]
Violet Sorrengail
She says, unless she dies, I don't want that.
- [60:33]
Carly
Nope.
- [60:35]
Hannah
When altering the Wardstone, Sawyer successfully removes two runes. The second rune is what lifted the block on the Griffin Flyer's magic. But the first one is only said by Riddick to be a protection rune. And then no one mentioned it again. What do we think that rune was for?
- [60:53]
Carly
The way this question keeps me up at night. Kenzie. Okay. I think about it when I wake up. I think about it when I go to bed.
- [61:00]
Hannah
Yeah. He's like, is this important? Guess what? We'll never know.
- [61:03]
Carly
Hope not. I actually kind of think this might have to be something that is a restriction on the writers. I think it has to do with the dragon bonds, because we see Violet survive losing her bond with Indarna. And I'm wondering if this is tying the riders to the dragon so that they definitely die. If their dragon dies, does it change.
- [61:27]
Violet Sorrengail
Your theory that they were outside of the wards when that happened? I kind of saw it as like a physical ward.
- [61:32]
Carly
He had fired the Wardstone when that happened?
- [61:34]
Violet Sorrengail
No, but they were separate wards, separate stones. So they were in Dreyfus, right, when they.
- [61:41]
Hannah
No, they were actually in Orisha.
- [61:42]
Carly
Yeah, they were under the Orishan Wardstone.
- [61:45]
Violet Sorrengail
Which would not have been the one that had the protection rune removed.
- [61:48]
Carly
Yes. But I'm just thinking it's foreshadowing that you actually can survive this bond being broken. So I think writers can survive their dragon bond breaking. And I'm wondering if this rune was the thing that. Cause it has to be something that we wouldn't see right away. Right. Like, Zaden seems to think that the Venon. Like, he can't channel in there, so he thinks all of that's still working. So I think it's a restriction on a writer, and I suspect it has to do with the Dragonbonds and to the writers and some sort of restriction there. And I wonder if it has to do with enforcing their death when the dragon breaks the bond or when the dragon dies.
- [62:29]
Hannah
Yeah. I think it doesn't matter that it's a different Wardstone. Because I don't think it was an accident he removed that line. Right. Like, it just was like a step in the process until they got the final result. So both of the Wardstones should have that same rune, right?
- [62:44]
Carly
It's possible, yeah.
- [62:46]
Violet Sorrengail
I think my point with trying to compare the Wardstones is we would only see a result of something that could then happen if the rune was removed in Besgaeth. Because that rune, if you're saying they could have also put that rune on Orisha's wardstone, but it stayed on there. So I guess I'm thinking of it regionally as well.
- [63:11]
Hannah
I was at first too, up until like literally five seconds ago. But the rune in Orisha is completely different than the rune in Basgiath. So they were changed.
- [63:20]
Violet Sorrengail
The ward stones are different. Right.
- [63:22]
Hannah
There's just only one rune that they needed to change. So like it's like got seven sides. Yeah. So seven sides. And there's only one rune that's different in Orisha. And so what Sawyer was doing was changing it to be like that one rune in Orisha. So I think yes, there was an extra protection that was taken off of the Basgaeth one, but it was to match the Eretian one. But I was the same way, Hannah, because I was like, well, like that only is really going to work in Basgaeth and not Orisha. But it's technically the same rune as the Orishan one. It was just like a two step process to get there.
- [63:56]
Violet Sorrengail
So there are multiple layers of runes on the Wardstone. They didn't know which rune to remove to give the flyers access. So there's multiple layers of runes still on there. It's not. They were trying to match it. They were just trying to figure out which one was not on Orisha. So there could still be more runes on Bezgaas Swordstone that Orisha doesn't have is my point. And the reason I think I'm thinking of it regionally is because whatever is done to that wardstone, whatever protection, rune or magic blocking thing is gonna happen within the umbrella of wherever the borders are of the wards. Right. And so I guess I'm trying to understand if it happened like day died outside of the wards. Is your theory that if it happens within the wards. I'm thinking of a border of the wards that something has to happen within for it to no longer be protected from. Because he calls it a protection or insinuates he said, what protection did we just remove? Yeah.
- [65:01]
Carly
So my point that I'm trying to make is that Violet still didn't feel like she was going to survive right when Andarna broke the bond, but she could. And I'm thinking that writers might not know that they could try to fight through it now and actually survive.
- [65:18]
Violet Sorrengail
So you actually don't think it's a protection thing at all? You think it.
- [65:22]
Carly
I think it's. I think it's some sort of limitation on a writer. We just don't know what it is yet.
- [65:28]
Hannah
Maybe it has less to do with where the death of the dragon happens and more so where the bonding initially happens, because we know we have threshing. That's right there at Bas Gaev. And that's typically where the writers will be channeling for the first time too. So maybe it's like, if they bond within the wards, I don't know. But my theory with this protection being removed was I have two. The funny one is maybe it removes lesser magic restrictions, so now Riddick will find it easier to start amplifying his voice, because thank God, he hasn't done that yet. But maybe. Maybe it'll make it easier. Like, they're like, we know that certain people are gonna try to take advantage here, and I don't know.
- [66:14]
Violet Sorrengail
Ah, see, I think I'm taking it so literally as it's. It's a protection of something that they were being protected from and now will not be able to be protected from.
- [66:25]
Carly
But that's what they're assuming.
- [66:26]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah, they're assuming that. And I think the reverse of that prompts the question of, like, what were they previously protected from outside of Griffin's? Then in what else? We don't really know.
- [66:37]
Carly
And there's not Kraken.
- [66:39]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, Rebecca did say she's set up for pirates in Kraken to be. There we go. We just unlocked the.
- [66:47]
Carly
We figured it out.
- [66:47]
Violet Sorrengail
That's it.
- [66:48]
Hannah
Nobody go in the river. My serious theory is maybe this is how the Venn were suddenly able to create those daggers that can immediately desiccate the dragons. Because that weapon did not exist until the very end of Onyx Storm. Because I think Mira said why it was, like, 99% certain that all the protections are still there. There's still that 1%. So I wonder if maybe that's what it is. Maybe they're able to create those daggers to use their magic and channel from people without having to actually channel within the wards.
- [67:28]
Carly
That would be interesting.
- [67:29]
Violet Sorrengail
I like that one a lot. I hate it. Let me be clear. But the dagger exists regardless, so I kind of like that. That would Be connected. I still take it very literally that I think it is something to do with the protection. I just don't feel like we have enough context yet. This is not the sort of thing that Rebecca would give us such heavy foreshadowing for, but not give us clues while Violet is in. Maybe not even in Bazga, but just under the wards that she would not start hinting at. Like, throughout the book. I just. I can't imagine she dropped that and didn't give us hints. So I'm really intrigued and looking forward to seeing if we catch anything through the rest of our deep dive that, like, maybe was insinuated as. That's suspicious.
- [68:13]
Carly
That's suspicious.
- [68:15]
Hannah
I will say, though, if it is the dagger thing, it doesn't explain why they haven't used it thus far. Like, because if it was only because of the wards, why wouldn't they just use it outside of the wards?
- [68:26]
Violet Sorrengail
The border is holding me up. I really am attached to thinking it's a protection that is specific to. To the area that the wards cover, but I don't know what else they need to be protected from.
- [68:36]
Carly
I guess I'm just not at all attached to the idea that it's to protect them.
- [68:41]
Hannah
I could see it being a restriction, for sure.
- [68:43]
Carly
I see it as control.
- [68:45]
Violet Sorrengail
I actually really love that.
- [68:47]
Carly
So that's what I'm leaning towards. And maybe. And it could be something totally different, but I'm just. I am leaning towards this being control and not protection.
- [68:57]
Hannah
Because we have to think. Lyra did not like the other first six. She was not like the other five writers. That is why she made a different Wardstone.
- [69:06]
Carly
Right.
- [69:07]
Hannah
So there's clearly something there. We're onto you, Rebecca.
- [69:10]
Violet Sorrengail
We are not letting go. And I really like the idea that it is restrictive on some part for the writers as a means of control. Because we get that epigraph later on in this set of chapters that is talking about. Oh, epiphany.
- [69:26]
Carly
I just had a thought.
- [69:27]
Violet Sorrengail
Oh, please. I pause it when this happens.
- [69:29]
Carly
Okay. Because I'm like, what if it's controlled? What if it's not controlling the writers? What if it's controlling the dragons? Taryn says the dragons are bound by bonds and that that's, like, why he couldn't tell her about the Ven and he couldn't tell her about these things. What if they have listed the restrictions on the dragons and now the dragons don't have to abide by the bonds that they're bonded to the Empyrean with.
- [69:46]
Hannah
Wait, hold up. I just had a thought, too.
- [69:49]
Violet Sorrengail
After.
- [69:49]
Hannah
And Darna broke the bond too, Taran left his channels completely wide open. And before, like, no writers were able to hear anything going on with the Empyrean. But after Andarna left Violet, she was listening to what was happening with the Empyrean. Like, it was completely full access, no restrictions, like, it was open. She heard everything that he was saying to Sigail. She heard everything that was being said to the Empyrean.
- [70:11]
Violet Sorrengail
And the region part still fits that. Because the Empyrean is centralized in the veil.
- [70:16]
Carly
Yep.
- [70:17]
Violet Sorrengail
Holy fuck. Oh, my God.
- [70:20]
Carly
I just had a live epiphany. You guys okay?
- [70:24]
Hannah
Yeah. I'm just trying to think of the implications of this.
- [70:27]
Carly
These are the moments where I'm like, people need to be watching this on Patreon. They need to see your faces.
- [70:32]
Violet Sorrengail
This is also exactly why I wanted to start the podcast. This is, like, my favorite thing ever.
- [70:38]
Hannah
So to summarize again, Carly, you think that this allows their bonds to be open and not controlled by the Empyrean?
- [70:47]
Carly
Like, maybe this is releasing a restriction or a control on the dragons to the Empyrean. That's where I'm at now, I think.
- [70:54]
Violet Sorrengail
I fucking love that.
- [70:55]
Carly
Okay, I'm glad. I feel like I interrupted somebody.
- [70:58]
Violet Sorrengail
No, that was.
- [70:59]
Carly
And then I'm so sorry.
- [71:01]
Hannah
It was never apologize.
- [71:05]
Violet Sorrengail
What I was saying was something about control. And we see that emphasized in one of the epigraphs. And what I had taken from that was like, they are building these weapons and riders. You're literally training them to be weapons. Are you not afraid they'll turn on you? And so I liked the idea of it being a rune that almost controlled them to some capacity. I don't know how much I lean into that, because clearly we had a whole Orishan riot leave. Right. So I love your theory. That was incredible.
- [71:34]
Carly
I think that's what I'm going to stick to.
- [71:36]
Hannah
No, also, I'm just going to point out, too, I'm not sure if this really leans into the control thing with the bonds, but Varysh and Jack were both controlling their dragons. They had the stinky breath. We were theorizing heavily on this before Onyx Storm came out. But in Onyx Storm, there were no dragons described as having, like, rancid breath or anything like that. So I wonder if somehow that could also be related. And again, it is dealing with their bond. It is dealing with control. Like, does that take away the rider's ability to control the bond as well? I don't know.
- [72:09]
Violet Sorrengail
Or make it easier if they've got more, like, unfettered access to more dragon secrets and such. I think that's.
- [72:16]
Hannah
Cath was completely normal in this book.
- [72:19]
Violet Sorrengail
You know, Rebecca has said in an interview, and I don't have the exact quote, so take this, please, with a grain of salt. And this is one that I would be willing to, like, concede that she could be, like, cheekily saying, but something about it made me think otherwise. She has said that examples where you hear. You, like, see people that the dragons have stinky breath or whatever is that they get stuck, like, things stuck in their teeth. And I was like, oh, well, that's kind of sensible. That kind of makes a little sense.
- [72:51]
Carly
You know, I don't know if it's.
- [72:54]
Violet Sorrengail
One of those things where she was like, oh, they're reading way too much into this. I was just trying to make it realistic that, like, dragons would, like, get stuff to stuck in their teeth, you know?
- [73:02]
Carly
I will say, though, the three dragons we get is so suspicious. It's Varys, Jack, and Dain. And I'm like, it's so suspicious because Dayton is also training under Varish in that book, and it's just not.
- [73:13]
Violet Sorrengail
The dragons were. Were around the most. You'd think that if she was trying to display that as a realistic attribute of being a dragon. Right. That it would be seen at least once or discussed between, like, Are and Darna. Sigail and Taryn, just, like, extremely hygienic. No.
- [73:30]
Hannah
Because of each other.
- [73:31]
Carly
Yeah.
- [73:32]
Hannah
No. Taryn's even like, slow down your chewing, girl. You're gonna, like, choke and stuff. And I'm like, I don't know. I feel like Andarna would get crap stuck in her teeth if that were the case. Because she's not eating very politely.
- [73:43]
Violet Sorrengail
No. And she's eating anything that she can find. So. Yeah, no, I. I'm more hesitant to take Rebecca at her word on that one, but I felt like it was important to include that she has said that somewhere.
- [73:56]
Carly
Yeah, I did see that one where she mentioned she's like, well, they don't have toothbrushes. That's why. And she gives kind of a silly response to it.
- [74:03]
Hannah
Yeah, but that was a rabbit hole.
- [74:06]
Carly
Yeah. Right. I will say, though, this kind of sets us up nicely, though. For my next question, Violet asks Taryn about how the Empyrean feels about the plan to alter the wards. And he responds with, you have the full support of the Eretian riot. We will find out how the others feel in the Morning. Is the Eretian riot no longer answering to the Empyrean?
- [74:30]
Violet Sorrengail
Okay, so this one is kind of like a mind fuck after the previous conversation that we just had. Because when there's a theory that I start to buy into, I think, all right, what's the foundation of this theory that I am relying on to buy into it? Does that contradict with some of my other established beliefs? That's how I try and check my theories. So this one. Are you asking if they have their own Empyrean? I guess, last we heard, the Empyrean let the dragons make a choice between Navarre and Orisha. So I imagine they likely follow, like, the biggest dragon laws. It's harder now that I'm, like, questioning that new theory.
- [75:13]
Carly
Yeah, I'm questioning it all now.
- [75:14]
Violet Sorrengail
We have, at some point, fractured in leadership, and so at some point I made the assumptions that there was a new Empyrean.
- [75:23]
Hannah
Me too.
- [75:23]
Violet Sorrengail
Like, when I walked away from Onyx Storm, I was like, oh, Orisha has its own Empyrean. But I don't know if that is something that I. I don't know that we actually got confirmation of that. Maybe something insinuated it that made me believe it. But, like, when they're mentioned at the end about the dragon elders that were killed, I immediately thought, oh, it was Eretian Empyrean elders at the Eretian hatching grounds.
- [75:45]
Hannah
Yeah, well, I assumed they had their own Empyrean because they have their own separate hatching grounds. And that's why I was like, well, Taran's the only, like, senior black dragon at the oration hatching grounds, so would that make him the elder of their own Empyrean? But now I'm like, if that rune took away the protection to give them, like, free choice with their bonds, I'm like, of course the Eretian riot would be all for it because they're all purposely bonding with these marked ones to have extra signets to build their own army.
- [76:17]
Violet Sorrengail
Yep. That was such a good point that I forgot mine.
- [76:21]
Hannah
I apologize.
- [76:23]
Violet Sorrengail
Oh. So I think we're actually also making another assumption here that the Empyrean is made up of elders. But that is not explicitly ever stated to us. I don't think because we know so little about them, we've made the assumption that the elder would then be like an assembly. Right. And that whoever was sitting at the assembly would be the eldest of the den. But we don't know that.
- [76:46]
Carly
No.
- [76:47]
Violet Sorrengail
It could be like, ancient dragons that are in charge like dragon gods. You don't know what they're made of.
- [76:56]
Carly
We don't even know it's dragons.
- [76:58]
Violet Sorrengail
Holy shit.
- [76:59]
Hannah
Carly, can you. Not for a second?
- [77:02]
Violet Sorrengail
It's just.
- [77:03]
Hannah
They're just chilling with Malak and shit. What's the quote that Taran says in fourth wing where he's like, we don't care about your gods.
- [77:10]
Violet Sorrengail
Something about kitty gods.
- [77:11]
Carly
Yeah.
- [77:12]
Hannah
But he didn't back it up by saying, oh, the Empyrean's better.
- [77:15]
Carly
But he insinuates it.
- [77:17]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah, we don't answer to your puny gods, I think is what he says.
- [77:21]
Hannah
Well, they would if that's the Empyrean.
- [77:24]
Carly
I'm gonna say we know so little about the Empyrean that it's hard to say anything for certain. But I just found this line so interesting in this moment, where he's, like, basically telling her, like, we're answering to the oration riot at this point, which I guess now is. I mean, I thought of this question before I even thought of the whole breaking the bonds that they're bound by. So now I'm like. I feel like this backs this up even more.
- [77:46]
Violet Sorrengail
It does. Well. And I. I think for me, it was notable, not suspicious, because he says Arishan riot, which I think of as like a subsection. Right. Like, they know they broke off. I think that is still within the Empyrean umbrella. But I don't necessarily see it as them not answering to them. I think they. They know that the Empyrean gave them enough lead way to leave. Right. To make that decision. So maybe the Empyrean views this kind of decision as an extension of that. And I also think, like, what is it to answer to the Empyrean? Because we've been told specifically about Sigail, that she breaks Empyrean laws. We're told that back in fourth wing, which I noted then was super fucking suspicious. And I'm like, what is it to break an Empyrean law as a dragon? What are the consequences and why is she not facing them? That we know of.
- [78:41]
Carly
They say it, too. I think that, like, the head of the dens can, like, break rules, kind of like how Andarna does. Which is why I've always thought Sigil is ahead of her den. So that's the only way I can explain it.
- [78:51]
Violet Sorrengail
But she's only 50, though.
- [78:52]
Carly
Yeah, but there's not that many blue dragons.
- [78:54]
Violet Sorrengail
That's true.
- [78:55]
Hannah
The blues are pretty rare.
- [78:56]
Carly
I feel like everything regarding the Empyrean is so Suspicious and so mysterious all at the same time. I just find this whole thing very interesting. They're only answering to the Oration riot now. And I'm like, well, are they still part of the Empyrean? Are they allowed to do whatever they want, but they still answer to the Empyrean?
- [79:13]
Violet Sorrengail
See, I don't take it as their only answering to the Eretian riot. I think in that decision, Taryn and the Orician riot said, we think this is what's right. Fuck it. But I think that there are overarching dragon laws that they're not going to break. I mean, we know that the consequences of breaking some are to the soul because killing another dragon and what it did to Indarna as a dragon slayer. So, like, maybe there's certain decisions that they just deem as up to dragons. This is the only mention it was moved on. It moved on so quickly. Especially considering, like, Taryn could have lost his life had Violet been burned by Dragonfire for committing treason. This was a serious decision for all of them to make. So I don't know.
- [79:57]
Hannah
Do we think that originally it was dragon prejudice that had them keeping up the Griffin magic in the first place? Because the dragons and the Griffins used to be able to communicate? We don't really know when that war and that rivalry kind of started. Why would the first six intentionally add a rune to the Wardstone to prevent Griffin magic? Was that something that the dragons told them to do?
- [80:22]
Violet Sorrengail
Can you add a rune? I mean, you can clearly remove one. So I don't know that it necessarily had to have happened when the first six were alive.
- [80:30]
Carly
Well, Lira states though, that she is purposely making that Wardstone differently. So I do think it was like that from the beginning. But I do find the whole thing interesting because they found a way to work together and then they put up the wards and they block out the Griffins. And I'm like, what is that about?
- [80:45]
Hannah
Yeah, why would they do that? So it makes me wonder, was it because of the first six or was it because of the Empyrean?
- [80:50]
Carly
Maybe the Griffons did something to get blocked out.
- [80:52]
Violet Sorrengail
I have a little less faith in Navarre. I kind of feel like they had like a long term vision and they said, well, I guess that wouldn't really make sense because we think it's only.
- [81:03]
Hannah
I don't know, they're like, the Griffins are not on our vision board. We will remove you.
- [81:07]
Violet Sorrengail
That's not necessarily what I meant, but I love that. I mean, maybe they knew the Whole time they wanted to set up Bormiel as like the enemy to the humans. Right?
- [81:18]
Carly
All of this was a long con.
- [81:20]
Violet Sorrengail
But we don't really know that, right? We don't know how long ago they stopped telling. It stopped being common knowledge that there's venom out there. It's not like they just one day, all the humans who just migrated there with these dragons just decided that the venom didn't exist anymore. That that took time over history. So I don't really think that that necessarily works. I lean to. Maybe it is something that the Griffins did that they might not have been bad on their part, but it could have been just enough for Navarre to lean more into being selfish. I mean, they were already raising the rewards for only some people anyway. They only gave them a year to come into them, so who knows?
- [81:58]
Hannah
While in the Wardstone chamber, Violet has flashbacks to her mom dying. We get some insight into her grief and guilt. How do we think her guilt and trauma over how she lost her mom is fueling this blind determination to save Zayden? Oof.
- [82:13]
Carly
I know, I know we talked a lot about her grief in the last episode, but I just felt like this section here was just a little too important to skip over because we get a little more insight into what she's feeling, which is it's not just guilt, it's survivor's guilt. You know, she talks about the way she lost her mom and how she feels like she couldn't stop her, she couldn't fix it, she couldn't save her. She feels responsible for that. And then on top of that, compounding this survivor's guilt, she is talking to Re and she is saying about how she's not even sure if she really misses her mom or like, what could have been. Which is going back to how I feel about Lilasaur and Kale and how she's a bad parent. But I find this interesting because what she has right now is just she has a lack of closure with a relationship with her mom and she has all of the survivor's guilt. And I think that this is really what is getting at the heart of this blind determination to save Zaden and why she is refusing any other possibility and also why she is acting a little, I don't want to use the word delusional, but she is acting as if he's not really Venin right now because she wants to live in the relationship she wants because she didn't get to do that with her mom. She kept thinking someday she's going to get to have the relationship she wants with her mom, but she never got there. And so instead of thinking, someday Zaden and I can have a real relationship, she's refusing to let it go now because she might. This might be the only time she has.
- [83:48]
Hannah
Lilith's last words to Violet were also live well.
- [83:51]
Carly
Yeah.
- [83:52]
Hannah
And I think Violet can't live well without Zaden by her side.
- [83:57]
Carly
Yeah. So I just wanted to point this out. I think it's really heartbreaking. We get like three sentences that I feel like just give us so much insight into her state of mind and why she is behaving the way she is with Zaden and acting like nothing's wrong.
- [84:15]
Violet Sorrengail
When Violet is talking to the guards in the first couple, literally the prologue, they were talking about how her mom saved them all. And she thinks to herself something along the lines of, you don't really know who saved us all and what he sacrificed. And whoa, if that doesn't make it even more.
- [84:40]
Carly
Yeah, I think that lack of closure in her relationship with her mom and never really getting to have the relationship she want, I think it haunts her. And that's why she's refusing to not have the relationship she wants now with Zaden.
- [84:51]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, it's also clearly connected. They literally happened with these two life altering events. Her losing her mom and him turning happen within moments. And she goes to tell him about losing her mom and he tells her that he turned. There's literally like no minutes between her mom saying live well and her being served up this whole new life that. Yeah, like, without both acts, they wouldn't survive.
- [85:15]
Hannah
Nice, Shayla.
- [85:16]
Violet Sorrengail
But also, what do you do with that? Except for keep persevering, which sucks that she's in the position where she has to do that. It's like, I had notes on here to talk about how Violet is clearly experiencing some type of ptsd. I don't claim to know a lot about it, so I just can recognize that she's looking around in that room and she's triggered. And it's not the first time either, because she also had this experience in the last set of chapters where she went down to the interrogation chambers. It was visual as well, but it was the smell. And it brought back flashbacks for her being tortured and interrogated. And in both of those situations, she's in a position where she can't not endure because people's lives are at stake. And I think when we talk about her grief. I touched on this last time. I think it comes back to the fact that she doesn't have Time to sit down and process. Yeah, it's. It just compounds and compounds. And you talk about survivor's guilt, Liam. Like, literally her whole relationship with Sloane is centered around her survivor's guilt. And Rebecca said time and time again, and I was really surprised to not see this play out more, though in retrospect, I think I'm starting to pick up on it, that Violet would shove all these things into a box and they would just keep building until it just couldn't close anymore. And I think that where we saw that happen was with Andarna, but I think it was slowly starting to happen. And I think it is wide the fuck open for book four. And I'm kind of scared.
- [86:54]
Hannah
Yeah, I think we should be.
- [86:56]
Carly
Yeah. Well, I think Rebecca wants us scared, so mission accomplished.
- [87:01]
Violet Sorrengail
Until we go back to the fact that she said she thought we would leave off hopeful.
- [87:05]
Carly
Well, there's that.
- [87:07]
Violet Sorrengail
So, stepping back to Violet's perfectly crafted plan that she manages to pull off to commit treason by altering the Wardstone and successfully gets pardoned for it by the Scenarium in a span of like eight hours. And I want to say, in case there is any confusion on how this all happened, Violet knew from Zaden that the Cenarium was set to sign an accord the following day that would pardon all of the Orion Riders for the act of treason, specifically for deserting Navarre when they left for Orisha. The catch was that the pardon technically covered any treasonous acts committed prior to the accord being signed. So Violet, knowing this, committed treason before it was signed, hoping that this would work. And she did, to her credit, frame herself by cutting off her lightning patch and leaving it at the crime scene to frame herself as the sole person who did it, just in case it didn't work, so that not everyone would take the fall for it. But it did work. Violet was pardoned and she did get away with it. So I just. I want to know what Yalls thoughts and reactions were on Violet orchestrating her own pardon for treason.
- [88:33]
Carly
I think as I was reading it, I literally yelled out, let's go. I mean, it was the perfect plan.
- [88:44]
Hannah
Mastermind.
- [88:45]
Carly
Yeah, it's very.
- [88:46]
Violet Sorrengail
I told you, I'm a mastermind.
- [88:49]
Carly
I felt like, in a way, we were getting to see Violet operate the way Rebecca is plotting out the series and the Easter eggs and threading the needle, like, the way she has this, like, perfect plan. It felt like that for Violet. Like, I was getting to see it on page in real time, which is very exciting. And I loved it so much. And I could fangirl about the scene for hours. Because it was just Chef's kiss.
- [89:16]
Violet Sorrengail
It was really, really good.
- [89:18]
Carly
Yeah.
- [89:18]
Hannah
This was my favorite scene within these chapters. It was just so badass when it all came together and she's like, ha, Gotcha. I totally tricked you guys. And she's like, yeah, it was me. But guess what? I am pardoned. So whatcha gonna do about it?
- [89:34]
Carly
I.
- [89:34]
Violet Sorrengail
Okay, so I fully agree. Completely badass. I will say it was so fast paced that I. It took me a moment to make sense of it. It's like, what is happening? How is this so easy? And then I got. I put together what the accord was, but boy, it was so clever. It was so clever.
- [89:53]
Carly
And it wasn't just her in that scene. It was like Colonel Atos coming in hot. And then they're like, sit down and shut up.
- [89:59]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah.
- [90:00]
Hannah
They're like, you have no authority here actually, so shut the fuck up.
- [90:04]
Carly
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And Violet's whole attitude in the scene where she's just like, what are you gonna do about it?
- [90:12]
Violet Sorrengail
Fully just outwardly admits and says, you're welcome. Yeah, yeah, you're welcome. Which is a really awful parallel to when she's forced to say thank you later in the.
- [90:24]
Hannah
Why do you gotta go there? Why do you gotta go there, Hannah?
- [90:28]
Violet Sorrengail
We're enjoying ourselves. I'll take it somewhere positive. I'll take it somewhere positive because I have been waiting to talk about this. It is also my favorite scene in the set of chapters, but for different reasons, which I'm sure at this point you all can guess. Holy fuck. The way that Zaden.
- [90:43]
Carly
Okay. Oh, my gosh. This is going to be about Zaden. Shocked.
- [90:49]
Violet Sorrengail
Who would have thought? The way that Zaden was smirking as Violet admitted shamelessly to treason. He said something along the. I've got a show to watch or something like that. Oh, my God. And then my favorite part was him keeping his eyes proudly locked on her as he explained to the room, because they were also not. Not caught up with what was happening, that she could not be punished. And then thinking, brilliant fucking woman.
- [91:27]
Carly
Yeah. Yep. It's so good.
- [91:30]
Violet Sorrengail
It's so good.
- [91:32]
Hannah
I think even he wasn't expecting her to go that far. Because after that he was like, you know what? Maybe I do want to be let in on your plans now. Like before, he did not want to know anything. And he's like, can you tell me some things?
- [91:44]
Carly
Yeah, please. I think I'm done being kept in the dark. I just love the part where she talks about how he looks at her like he does as they're on the sparring mat, like he's waiting for. Yeah. I was like, oh, so good.
- [91:58]
Hannah
It's so good.
- [92:00]
Violet Sorrengail
Rebecca just knows how to write a man like a man.
- [92:06]
Hannah
Yep.
- [92:07]
Carly
It was so good.
- [92:08]
Violet Sorrengail
It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole book. For Zaden.
- [92:11]
Carly
Of course it is.
- [92:12]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah.
- [92:13]
Carly
Okay, one last topic. We have to touch on the reveal that Colonel Atos is now the commanding general of Bazgaeth and how terribly he treated Dain.
- [92:28]
Violet Sorrengail
I have to send you guys my reaction. I videotaped it.
- [92:32]
Carly
We'll have to post it to our Patreon.
- [92:34]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. I was absolutely horrified, first of all, by the reveal, because she calls him Colonel Atos when he walks in. And then you get this, like, bomb drop. And I was like, no fucking way would they do that. Why would they put him. Like, that's such a dumb decision. But I also. It's Nevarre.
- [92:50]
Carly
Yeah.
- [92:51]
Hannah
But there's other generals to choose from to, like, promote. Not like her aide, General Sorrengail's.
- [92:57]
Violet Sorrengail
But it's for the plot, you know, I get it, but it's like, are you fucking kidding? But I was the most horrified by how he treated Daen in this scene. And I said earlier that this set of chapters, for me was just Dain's turning point. And it was the perfect combination of how he reacted to Violet just coming. He stepped up to Aura and for the squad in a respectful and just incredible way. And then you get this moment where it really just puts into perspective what he risked by having his dad disown him in front of everyone and how hurt he was by that and how it just haunts me in retrospect how every time Rebecca defends Dane, she's like, he just trusted his dad. And so in my head, the whole time I was reading that scene, I just heard Rebecca in the back being like, he just trusted his dad.
- [93:53]
Carly
Yeah.
- [93:55]
Hannah
And, like, you get a little bit of that devastation. He, like, makes a face like. And you have to think, too. He was just promoted again. He was like, okay, you're the wing leader. And then to have his dad disown him in front of the whole quadrant after I'm sure being elated that he's, like, promoted to wing leader again, but he had to recover so quickly from that.
- [94:19]
Violet Sorrengail
It also set up how he could have went to his dad about Violet's dad's research and gain back favor with him, but he still chose to be faithful and trustworthy to Violet and grab the research. And I just. I think his arc, it was done so well. It was just done so well, you.
- [94:44]
Hannah
Know Whose arc was not done well? General Eidos. I was disgusted by him. I just felt like it was spitting on Lilith's grave. And, like, I don't even understand his vendetta that he has against Violet. I don't understand why he hates her so much, but just the way that he was rubbing it into Violet. Yeah, I hated that.
- [95:07]
Carly
Well, I suspect that he hates Violet now so much because she's not with Dane, especially after she became, like, the most powerful writer and he thought this was going to increase his status and his power, and then she rejected him.
- [95:19]
Hannah
That is so dumb.
- [95:20]
Carly
But I think it's about power for him. I think all of this has always been about power. And I think he saw Violet as a stepping stone to more power. And then he didn't get that. And I think he just is angry at her for it because we see him being very kind to her and fourth wing and then awful to her later on. But I just want to say, everything with Dane, this whole moment, it's compounded even more for me the heartbreak about how his dad treats him because the mom is. We don't know anything about his mom.
- [95:45]
Violet Sorrengail
I was about to bring up the mom.
- [95:46]
Carly
I'm assuming she's gone.
- [95:47]
Violet Sorrengail
Rebecca said there's a reason we don't know about her yet.
- [95:50]
Carly
Yeah.
- [95:50]
Hannah
Oh, my God. There's going to be more heartbreak. Don't give us a Quinn flashback like with Imogen when we. I swear to God, if Dane dies in one of the next books and we get a flashback to his mother. I mean, I already know I'm gonna cry if Dane dies, but if it includes a flashback with his mom, I'm fucking toast.
- [96:07]
Violet Sorrengail
I just wanna point out that at our Denver Q and A, Rebecca was asked what character she loves to hate, and her response was about how she doesn't hate any of her characters, but that. Because she understands that there's more to them. Right. That there's reasons for them being the way that they are. This is, of course, paraphrasing, but she does talk about Varysh. And I want to point that out because I think there's a distinction that she didn't talk about Etos in this way. She talks about how he is the character that is after power for the sake of power and nothing more.
- [96:42]
Hannah
Varysh.
- [96:43]
Violet Sorrengail
Yes. It implies to me that there is more to General Eidos. So I definitely think it has to do with Dain's mom, and I think that that's going to be a pretty big bomb to drop on us. I don't know how she plans to do it to bring in a character that late that will have that big of an impact, but there's a reason he was put in charge, and I do think it was, like, to be the annoying, pestering person that keeps Zayden and Violet apart for most of the book. And he definitely did that. Again, annoying. But I think that there's something more there that we're going to find out about Dane's mom that is going to be heartbreaking for Dane, and it is going to make General Atos make a little bit more sense. Doesn't mean we'll agree with it, of course, but.
- [97:30]
Carly
Yeah. No, it doesn't mean we'll like him, but understanding him would be interesting.
- [97:34]
Hannah
He can still get fucked.
- [97:36]
Violet Sorrengail
He can still get fucked.
- [97:37]
Carly
Yep. Sure can.
- [97:38]
Violet Sorrengail
And not in that way.
- [97:39]
Carly
Yeah.
- [97:40]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [97:40]
Carly
Him and Aura Byhaven.
- [97:42]
Hannah
Yeah. Well, she did, so.
- [97:44]
Carly
Yeah. Thank goodness.
- [97:46]
Hannah
Time to head on over to our healer's quadrant to take a temperature check on our characters, our favorite moments and standout quotes. Who was hot for you this week, Hannah?
- [97:54]
Violet Sorrengail
Violet, for stepping into her power, and, of course, as we have much discussed, cleverly getting away with treason. What about you, Carly?
- [98:03]
Carly
I think I have to agree with you. It's gotta be Violet. She was awesome. Same reasons. I just love seeing her so confident. I want to give an honorable mention to Maren, though, who let her squad drag her along to change the wards with zero idea of what was going on, but still trusted them.
- [98:18]
Violet Sorrengail
Mm.
- [98:19]
Carly
Kenzie.
- [98:20]
Hannah
I had to be a little bit different, so I went with Dane Eidos for standing up for the flyers, breaking Ara's nose, and disagreeing with his dad. I guess. I don't know. But I. I love Dain. I also loved Auric in this one. He was hot for me as well.
- [98:35]
Violet Sorrengail
Dain, Auric, and Zaden were all very hot.
- [98:39]
Hannah
This edge, after all.
- [98:42]
Violet Sorrengail
Get in. So nots, though I think we made it clear. General Atos fuck him can fuck off. You know? Is that also. That's also yours?
- [98:52]
Hannah
Yeah, it's also mine. You don't treat Daddy Dane like that.
- [98:58]
Violet Sorrengail
Daddy Dane.
- [98:59]
Hannah
By Daddy Dane, I'm referring to. Oh, wait.
- [99:01]
Carly
Oh, yeah. No, we.
- [99:02]
Hannah
I was thinking Daddy ate us.
- [99:03]
Carly
Yeah.
- [99:04]
Hannah
Daddy Dane.
- [99:05]
Carly
Yep. Yeah, I have Aura Byhaven. I really dislike her.
- [99:10]
Hannah
Me too. I was glad when she died.
- [99:12]
Violet Sorrengail
I was, too. I think I even said that out loud. Like, I cannot wait for her to die. And then the Next couple pages. I think I said it to Matthew in the next couple pages, and I was like, well, that was quick. And he laughed from the other room.
- [99:23]
Hannah
It was great plot twist. She's not dead. A wyvern just took her to her Venn and Den.
- [99:29]
Carly
No, no, she's dead.
- [99:31]
Violet Sorrengail
She's dead, right? She's dead. Rebecca can't keep doing that with Jack and Aura, you know? Like, if she's going to keep Jack alive, she's got to give us some satisfaction in some villain deaths, right?
- [99:43]
Hannah
How about our favorite moments?
- [99:45]
Violet Sorrengail
I think I made mine crystal fucking clear. But mine was, of course, Zaden's reaction to Violet confessing to treason. And the eyes locked on her as he explained it to the room. That's so hot. So good.
- [100:02]
Hannah
Same scene for me, but instead of the Zaden part, it was like, gotcha. You already put.
- [100:08]
Violet Sorrengail
It's a Violet perspective.
- [100:09]
Hannah
Yeah, Yeah, I loved that.
- [100:11]
Carly
I loved Violet stepping into wield against Aurra. I just loved that moment so much. I just thought everything about it was perfect. And I could not have loved Violet more in that scene.
- [100:21]
Violet Sorrengail
Her speech was something.
- [100:22]
Carly
It was so good.
- [100:24]
Violet Sorrengail
Definitely nobility. Dudley. All right. Okay, wait, wait. I'm so excited for this. We've got the favorite quotes, and we started something last episode where apparently I'm really predictable. Or we're gonna see. We're gonna see how predictable I am. And Kinsey and Carly are going to try and guess each week if they got my favorite quote for the week.
- [100:49]
Carly
It's gonna surprise anybody that I picked a Zaden quote for.
- [100:51]
Violet Sorrengail
You're so far off.
- [100:54]
Carly
Like, it's just kidding.
- [100:57]
Violet Sorrengail
Absolutely not. I do have an honorable mention. That is not Zayden, but my favorite. I literally said it, too, right before this. With that speech. At least a duchess. Shut the fuck up.
- [101:08]
Hannah
That's what I had.
- [101:09]
Violet Sorrengail
That's so cute.
- [101:10]
Carly
I also have that one.
- [101:11]
Violet Sorrengail
All right, we are tie.
- [101:14]
Carly
Yep.
- [101:14]
Violet Sorrengail
We're putting that in here to keep track of weekly. All right, Kenzie, what about your favorite? Oh, wait, I forgot my. I forgot my honorable mention. One track mind, you know, Daddy. All right. My honorable mention is a quote by Violet. I know. Not Satan quote. Dane is too honorable to wield during a challenge. But you'll find that my sense of morality has learned to waver. And as much as I relate to and admire Violet for her morality, I related heavily to this quote, and I think it really shows her character growth. And I love it so, so, so much.
- [101:56]
Hannah
I thought it was fantastic.
- [101:58]
Violet Sorrengail
So good.
- [101:59]
Hannah
I had a hard time just picking One quote this week. So I do have three. The first one is from Riddick, and it is.
- [102:05]
Violet Sorrengail
Shh.
- [102:06]
Hannah
It's more fun when she blows shit up. All right. And then this one's a conversation. Llewellyn says, quote, your secret is still safe. By the way, though you might consider putting your father out of his misery. He has half his personal guards searching for you. Then Auric says, shows how effective they are. Don't you think so? Yeah, they're useless. And my honorable mention is from Professor De Vera. She says, quote, to keep it easy, you stay where you have always been. If you find it awkward to serve in a squad with those who have made a different choice this fall, then feel free to lodge your complaint with Malik.
- [102:40]
Violet Sorrengail
I did love that one. That was such a good burn. Yeah, get fucked. Yeah, get fucked.
- [102:46]
Carly
I love Devara. She's great.
- [102:48]
Violet Sorrengail
She's my favorite professor, for sure. Well, Professor Zaddy number one.
- [102:54]
Carly
But we're not there yet. I have. So we kill him if he makes her uncomfortable. And Darna suggests, problem solved. That was referring to Halden.
- [103:04]
Violet Sorrengail
Oh, yeah.
- [103:05]
Carly
I also have a quote tied to that same scene you picked from Hannah, which is. Rebel is so outdated. We prefer the term revolutionary. I inform Aura, taking a measured step in her direction and welcoming the crackle of sizzling power in my fingertips. And if you're going to wield, then it's me you'll be dealing with.
- [103:23]
Hannah
Bum, bum, bum.
- [103:26]
Violet Sorrengail
Love to see it. Violet has a lot of those moments.
- [103:31]
Carly
Yeah, she has some great moments. Now, let's stop by the scribe quadrant for our epigraph analysis of the most thought provoking epigraphs. The Chapter 5 epigraph reads, Never forget that dragon riders have been selected, trained, and even bred for cruelty. Expecting mercy from a rider is a mistake, for none will be given. From chapter one, the Tactical Guide to defeating dragons by Colonel Elijah Jobin. And the chapter six epigraph reads, never turn your back on a rider. From Major Offendra's guide to the Writer's unauthorized edition.
- [104:12]
Violet Sorrengail
So we kept both of these together because both of the epigraphs point to how riders are conditioned to be ruthless weapons. And it was also setting up for the infighting that we see result between the Arishan and Nevarian cadets. I do want to point out that that epigraph chapter six, is an unauthorized edition. Why is it never turn your back on a writer in an unauthorized edition? And that's suspicious?
- [104:46]
Carly
I guess I didn't really think about it that way, I guess.
- [104:49]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, I guess it's maybe like loose writing? Because I think there's something to be said for epigraphs of why things are authorized and unauthorized.
- [104:57]
Carly
Like, it's not authorized by Bazga as an official guide to the writer's quadrant. Like, maybe it's a previous writer who was just like, this was my experience experience. And here's your guide.
- [105:05]
Hannah
Oh, and maybe it's also too that they're not trained to really, like, think for themselves. They never really want them to like, ever be in a situation where they could turn on their own leadership. So I don't know. That's where I was going with it.
- [105:20]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, I think we should just keep an eye out for the differences between authorized and unauthorized editions as we make our way through this deep dive.
- [105:28]
Carly
I do find it interesting, now that.
- [105:29]
Violet Sorrengail
You'Ve pointed it out, Rebecca doesn't do things like that without intention, so I'm just very curious how she also distinguishes what to make authorized and unauthorized. But the Chapter 7 epigraph reads, if I'm to be court martialed for helping Braxton defend his people, then I shall welcome the trial. All who channel from dragon and griffin alike should flourish under the wards. And now Arisha will be that haven, should one of the others ever return. Journal of Lyra of Moiraine Translated by Cadet Ja Neil Wart so this epigraph.
- [106:10]
Carly
Explains that the wordstone in Orisha was specifically designed to allow both dragons and Griffins to wield magic. So in Iron Flame, when they realize the Griffin flyers can wield that is not actually a sign that the wards are failing. And to be clear, the words are failing. That's just not a sign of it. I actually had a theory about this and it turned out I was right.
- [106:30]
Violet Sorrengail
So much that we were blowing our group chat up when we all read it. I still have to post my reaction to being like, oh my God, Carly was right as soon as I read it. You should go watch our initial reactions episode.
- [106:42]
Hannah
Anyways, speaking of theories, this epigraph actually prompted one for me. So we see an interesting parallel where Violet does the exact same thing as Lara to raise the wards to include the flyers. Also, Violet's like, consequences be damned. I'm fully owning up to being a traitor. Since history repeating itself seems to be very prominent in this series. And Violet and Liryre have the same values. And we know that one of the first original six writers was a lightning wielder. I am convinced that Lira could have been the very first lightning wielder. Lyra also appeared to have a relationship with The Irids and Violet is bonded to one, so that's another thing they have in common. I thought it was really interesting in this epigraph that Lyra just casually mentions the seventh breed of Dragon, because obviously she knew that they existed because she was there when the original Wardstone was put up in Basgaith. But it's wild to me that it took our characters so long to figure this out in Iron Flame when it was right there. And it also had me thinking, Lyra had to have known why they left, right?
- [107:52]
Violet Sorrengail
Like the Irids.
- [107:54]
Hannah
The Irids. Like, she had to have known why the Irids left. And it wasn't just one Irid on the continent because Lyra mentions others plural. But it's also like, if there were others, why not just activate the Wardstone?
- [108:08]
Violet Sorrengail
Then it seems they refused.
- [108:12]
Carly
I think the timing of it is interesting. Like, did they refuse or had they already left? And how close do these things happen together? There's so much about the timeline around that area we just don't know. I think this is a great analysis on this.
- [108:24]
Hannah
We just got so much from this one epigraph. It made me so excited.
- [108:27]
Carly
We did.
- [108:27]
Violet Sorrengail
I do have a quick question on what you were saying about. You mentioned that Liryre appeared to have a relationship with the Irids. Was that based on this epigraph, or you're saying the one combined from the journal is how you got that?
- [108:39]
Hannah
I was basing that off of this epigraph, since she just seems to, like, be referring to them coming back. Like, oh, maybe when they come back, then the others will light up my Wartstone too. So it seemed like maybe she had a relationship with them. I could be reading into that way too much.
- [108:55]
Violet Sorrengail
But I mean, what do we know? What do we not know? All of it.
- [109:01]
Hannah
The chapter eight epigraph reads, quote, while many preach loyalty to Hedian above all others, especially in Caldir Province, I find that favoring Xenol has universal appeal. Everyone wants wisdom, but needs luck. From Major Royally's Guide to Appeasing the Gods, second edition.
- [109:21]
Carly
I love this epigraph. I think it gives us so much, actually, with so little rurally. This person actually gets three epigraphs in this book alone. And we'll get into the others later. But I just wanted to point that out, because not many people get that many in one book. And the first time we see this name is back in chapter 11 of fourth wing. There's an epigraph from this same person as well. And that epigraph is where we learn about the burning belongings from Malik. So that's what that epigraph was about. And Hedion is the God of wisdom, which Violet points out is not the same thing as knowledge, because she's pointing out why the scribes don't worship Hedion, because somebody is assuming that they do. And she's like, nope, those are not the same thing, which I find very interesting. And then we have the mention of Zanal, who's the God of luck. Kaldir is where the King of Navarre resides, which is where they are loyal to Hedion. And then we have this line, everyone wants wisdom but needs luck. This line, to me, is mirroring Violet and Zaden's perspectives throughout the series, where Violet wants to focus on hope and possibilities, Zaden wants to focus on probabilities. And these two things seem very, very similar to me. Kinsey actually also pointed out the foreshadowing that the squad will need Zenal to help lead them to the Irids. And so they're going to need luck, just like this epigraph states.
- [110:53]
Violet Sorrengail
Wow. A lot packed in a single epigraph.
- [110:56]
Hannah
They're all important.
- [110:58]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah. I do think it's notable that we finally got more information about gods in this. I mean, it was packed. This book was packed about it, and so it makes sense that we start getting more on the guide of Appeasing the gods. I'm actually quite surprised we don't have even more than three out of 66, but it is notable that that's more mentions than we typically get of someone.
- [111:16]
Carly
Yep, it's quite a few.
- [111:19]
Violet Sorrengail
Now take flight with us over to the hatching grounds for our Easter eggs. And moments of foreshadowing in, including moments that stood out during this reread and may spiral into theories right before the.
- [111:33]
Hannah
Fight between Arrah and Dain. And Darna says Dain isn't the strongest. And Violet responds with quote, Dain can take her in hand to hand. And Darna again insists that Dain isn't the strongest. And that's when Violet realizes it's her. In Unbriel, Dain and Violet were both chosen to battle. The priestess said, quote, our goddess teaches that while battles may be won by the strongest warriors, they may also be lost by our weakest. And we know from the results of both challenges that Violet is indeed the strongest.
- [112:03]
Violet Sorrengail
Ooh, what a parallel.
- [112:05]
Carly
I love it. I want to point out some anagrams in this section, because I'm not sure what these mean, but let's just stay with me for a second.
- [112:17]
Hannah
I Love your anagrams.
- [112:19]
Carly
In this chapter, we get a name tag of a cadet Norris. We get Baylor Norris. In the previous chapters, we had the person who had helped build and design Aaron Norris. So there's some assumption that they're related. And that is very possible. But I want to point out that Aaron Norris is an anagram. It's spelled differently, but we've seen the names change spelling over time. You can spell Ryerson. You can spell Ren Ryerson, or a. A initial Ryerson with this name, which I find very interesting. So I'm wondering if they're actually related or if this anagram is there for some odd reason. It's not the only anagram. There are other anagrams. Back in Iron Flame, Diandra Naveen is an anagram for Endarna. Vendee. Vendee is the name of a French war that was erased from history.
- [113:15]
Violet Sorrengail
Oh, what? Shut the fuck up.
- [113:17]
Carly
Yep. Which I find very suspicious because Rebecca Yarros is a history major, so if anybody would know that, I feel like it would be her. Sigar Olsen is the first curator of the scribe quadrant. It is an anagram. And again, the name spelled slightly differently. It is an anagram for S. Sorengale. It's not an anagram, but all the letters for Tyrnanoch can be found in the name Phineas Cartland, which is also a curator of the scribe quadrant. And it's in the same epigraph from the name of Sagar Olsen. I find it very suspicious. I'm just gonna throw this in this section here because it's just so suspicious.
- [113:53]
Violet Sorrengail
She can't not be. I was gonna say, like, I wish we got confirmation that she used anagrams, but, like, how many times is it gonna work?
- [114:01]
Carly
I keep finding them, and I'm gonna have more from this book. I just haven't figured them all out yet. So we'll come back around to more anagrams for this book.
- [114:08]
Hannah
I tried asking at their Becca Yarros Q and A. They didn't pick that question. But if we get lucky. If we get lucky and we attend another Q and A, I'm just like, anagram, anagram, anagram.
- [114:20]
Violet Sorrengail
Like, I need to admit a million times it's so clever.
- [114:23]
Hannah
Like, there's no way it's just a coincidence.
- [114:25]
Violet Sorrengail
There's no. That's what I'm saying. Like, how many times does it have to happen for it not to be coincidental?
- [114:30]
Hannah
Like, it's too much.
- [114:32]
Violet Sorrengail
This is. Yeah, it's past that.
- [114:35]
Hannah
In chapter six, we learn from Emmaterio that Violet and Zaden and now Lynx are the first Shadow and Lightning wielders that have lived simultaneously since the Great War. I think this foreshadows that they'll be able to stop the Venin again. And it also ties back to the epigraph, where the most powerful signets manifest during critical times in history. And only twice in their records have there been writers existing concurrently with an equal. So they're clearly needed for a very specific cause.
- [115:04]
Violet Sorrengail
I have a theory on this. It's in the theory section, so I can't wait to. No, I'm gonna. I'm gonna hold it. I'm gonna hold it.
- [115:10]
Hannah
Hold it.
- [115:11]
Carly
Hold that thought. Regarding the map, I think we're getting some foreshadowing that there's more northward than what we have seen, not just the Isle Kingdoms, because there's a moment where they say they must think you're headed to the Isle Kingdoms or northward. So I think we're gonna find out that there's more up north on this map that we can't see yet.
- [115:31]
Hannah
Like the pirates in the Kraken.
- [115:33]
Carly
Yeah.
- [115:36]
Violet Sorrengail
We got a callback to the vow that Dyer, the healer that Violet, saved from Bade during navigation last year back in Iron Flame, when he said, anything you need, I'm at your service. I owe you a life debt. And Violet once again cashes that in by having him assist in committing treason, as he helped them sneak into the infirmary to kidnap Sawyer, and seemingly also was slipping Valerian root tincture into other healers to put them to sleep. That's easy to miss. This is the same healer that Violet also sent Auric to for his hands after the Archives heist in Iron Flame. So clearly she sees him as trustworthy, and he. He pulls through.
- [116:24]
Hannah
I like how he's like, thanks for saving my life. I'm gonna keep putting myself in situations where it can get.
- [116:32]
Violet Sorrengail
Oh, yep.
- [116:34]
Hannah
All right. During the mission to alter the Wardstone, Sawyer says, then you're fucked, because I can't think of a single rock or Earth wielder in our history. But Sawyer is clearly wrong, because we now know that Imogen has yet another rare signet. As far as we know, she is wielding stone, so.
- [116:56]
Violet Sorrengail
But could possibly also be an Earth wielder that can happen to also wield stone. Yeah.
- [117:02]
Hannah
And now I'm like, okay, if that's never happened in their history, could she be one of the most powerful six riders to look out for in this series?
- [117:11]
Violet Sorrengail
At this point, we have more than six of these instances, so what the fuck yeah.
- [117:16]
Hannah
And it's odd to me that all of the marked ones have second signets that are critical in running this revolution to destroy Venom.
- [117:24]
Violet Sorrengail
What if one of the six was not even an Earth wielder's stone? What if she literally is the first and only one ever?
- [117:29]
Hannah
No, she is. But we got that epigraph from chapter three, four. I don't know. It was in our last episode where they were saying the strongest signets do reappear during critical times. So we're assuming because Rebecca likes the number six, that we have our own big six. Not the first six, but we have our own writers. And Imogen is definitely in there for sure, but Sawyer says never in our history, so she has to be the first.
- [117:55]
Violet Sorrengail
But what I'm trying to point out is when we did the read through and we got that epigraph for the first time, which is another episode where we read out loud those chapters you and I had discussed, we'd made the assumption that the first six signets in the first six riders would also be present in the same exact signets to the most powerful signets that now walk. So for whatever reason, my brain just now connected that that assumption may not be true, that we might not get.
- [118:28]
Hannah
Well, here's the thing. Imogen still counters other people, because I've been saying forever that Imogen counters Dain, but could we also argue that her second signet counters Garak because he's like distance wielding, he's crossing the Earth and she's controlling and manipulating the Earth itself. We just have all these powerful signets that are appearing for the first time in history or for the first time in centuries. And it's very odd to me that it's always happening.
- [118:54]
Violet Sorrengail
Maybe it's seven.
- [118:56]
Hannah
It could be seven.
- [118:57]
Violet Sorrengail
Maybe because we're working with the assumption that it's the first six riders, Right? But there's a theory there that there was a seventh that either was intended to become a dragon rider and maybe the Irides said no, and then they turned Venon. That's a big running theory. Maybe that person was also a stone wielder or was going to be. And so we have a seventh, because it just doesn't make sense to me that it wouldn't be a parallel to the exact same most powerful signets. This really shakes that up.
- [119:27]
Carly
I will say I think it's weird that he would even know to call out to that if one had never existed or they didn't know it was a possibility. Like, why would he even know to call it that? So I guess it's a little odd to me, but the wording here is also odd.
- [119:42]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah, well, it could lend to that history having been erased. Someone existed, which would make sense if that mysterious seventh person who has been erased and erases memories. Guys, we are on a roll tonight. This is good, but also really fucking with my head a little bit.
- [120:05]
Carly
Yeah.
- [120:07]
Hannah
I have one last thing to add here. When Sawyer said this, because obviously, I didn't know the first time around, but on my reread, I was like, well, would Imogen have stepped in and revealed her second signet in that instance if Sawyer did refuse to help?
- [120:21]
Violet Sorrengail
The reason I would think not is because the Wardstone is made up of majority iron, which is why Violet is able to convince him that they don't need a stone wielder or earth wielder. They need a metallurgist. So I actually think maybe she would have offered to try, but, like, maybe she wouldn't even have to reveal it. Maybe she could just attempt it on her own. On her own, just sitting there. Maybe she did, and we're assuming it was Sawyer that was successful. Oh, I'm just kidding. I don't think I buy it.
- [120:54]
Carly
No, no. The geology training in me is coming out in this moment as you guys are talking about this.
- [120:59]
Violet Sorrengail
Please enlighten us.
- [121:00]
Carly
I've just taken a bunch of geology classes, and, you know, like, iron is basically, like. It's an ore, and rock is, like a different mineral property. And so from, like, a technical, scientific standpoint, I'm like, no, it'd have to be Sawyer. But I'm like, this is a fantasy world. They're not geologists. Who knows?
- [121:19]
Hannah
Maybe their core of their Earth is different from ours. And. Just kidding. I'm not getting into that. Next.
- [121:29]
Violet Sorrengail
So we get another reminder, this time from Mira, that the sentence for treason is execution by Dragonfyre, which was, of course, foreshadowing. And Darna saying, I will not let them burn you at the end of the book. And finally, we have this moment. This is just one that, like, stood out. And I'm just really wondering what you guys make of the fact that we got another mention of Riddick's dragon tattoo on his neck.
- [121:53]
Carly
I do find this interesting. I know that there's a theory out there that this is, in fact, a relic, that he has bonded two dragons. I've heard it a few times. I do want to use this moment to point out that Violet seems to instantly know the difference between relics and tattoos. So I think she would recognize that it was A relic, because the relics seem to have, like, a shimmer to them, which the tattoos do not. So I do think it's interesting, and I think Kinsey and I both said this. Riddick's suspicious in this novel, more so than even the other ones.
- [122:25]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah, I do agree with that as well.
- [122:26]
Carly
Yeah, he's extra suspicious in this novel, but I don't think it's a relic. But I do find it interesting that he gets a tattoo of his dragon, though, because his relic is of his dragon. So he's just got double dragon markings on his body now.
- [122:40]
Hannah
Like, why?
- [122:42]
Carly
When is it enough?
- [122:43]
Violet Sorrengail
I mean, I don't know. I guess if I bonded a dragon, like, I would be like, yeah, sure, I'll take three of them.
- [122:48]
Carly
That's true.
- [122:49]
Violet Sorrengail
I do want to point out that the only other character that we know of, and correct me if I'm wrong, with the tattoo, is Theophany on her forehead, which, of course is connected to the fact that she devoted herself to a God.
- [123:03]
Hannah
Yep. That's the only one I can think of. And then Brennan has that rune shaped scar on his hand, but that's not described as being a tattoo.
- [123:09]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah, I don't even know that it would be possible for someone to have been dedicated to.
- [123:17]
Carly
It had to be a dragon God, because it's a dragon tattoo.
- [123:20]
Violet Sorrengail
Can you dedicate yourself to the Empyrean?
- [123:23]
Hannah
Isn't that what being a writer is all about?
- [123:27]
Violet Sorrengail
What else could a dragon tattoo. It could be a situation where Rebecca was like, yeah, I gave Imogen pink hair to show that the writers have different personalities. And also, I really like having pink hair, so she should have pink hair. Why was he specifically rubbing his neck?
- [123:44]
Carly
Yeah.
- [123:45]
Violet Sorrengail
Mentioning someone's pink hair is a distinctive mark for just walking in the room.
- [123:49]
Carly
But, like, I will say, the placement is interesting.
- [123:53]
Hannah
Yeah, I think maybe what he's like, you know what? A trim. The placement wasn't good enough for me. Not enough people can notice it. So let's put it where it's more visible.
- [124:02]
Carly
Right.
- [124:02]
Violet Sorrengail
Center so I can show it off. I respect that as a Leo. He's a Leo, right? Riddick is a Leo.
- [124:08]
Carly
I don't know.
- [124:09]
Hannah
All I know is Zaden and I are both Aries. That's all I know.
- [124:13]
Violet Sorrengail
That's his only downfall. My ex is an Aries. Sorry about it, girl.
- [124:20]
Hannah
Violet's a Leo, isn't she?
- [124:22]
Violet Sorrengail
No, she's a cancer. Cancer I'm the first day of. Well, it depends on the chart you look at, but technically, I'm the first.
- [124:28]
Carly
Like, Official day, man. This conversation's gonna tie in nicely to my theory below, but.
- [124:32]
Hannah
Oh, let's go.
- [124:33]
Violet Sorrengail
Let's fucking go.
- [124:35]
Carly
Okay, I wanna say one more thing about the tattoo really quickly. The reason why I'm saying the placement is interesting is cause it's described very similarly to Zaden's relic on his neck. The way she describes how it, like, almost touches his jaw and things like that, and the way he touches it and the way Zaden's always touching his relic. It's almost like he's emulating Zaden in an odd way.
- [124:53]
Violet Sorrengail
I really liked the idea of them being platonic and his love for Violet being platonic and just pure this book. But, I mean, not that that wouldn't be. But also, I think it'd just be messy, but it would lend into him, like, if he does have, like, a romantic love for Violet, wanting to emulate. Oh.
- [125:14]
Carly
Oh, well, he has this interesting line with her where he talks about. And I don't have the exact line in front of me because we're not on those chapters yet, but he talks about how, like, sometimes there's, like, heartbreaks that you have to just live with and move past. And I think it's pointing to, like, him having a heartbreak or someone he can't be with.
- [125:30]
Hannah
My Sheila.
- [125:32]
Carly
And I wondered if it's Violet, what.
- [125:35]
Violet Sorrengail
If it's Zaden, what if it's Zayan? Because honestly, he has so many. He straight up tells Violet all the time that he would take her, man, if he thought it was possible.
- [125:46]
Carly
Maybe it's both.
- [125:47]
Violet Sorrengail
Maybe it's like an extreme admiration for him or, like. I think that's notable.
- [125:53]
Carly
Yeah, I think it's interesting. But let's jump into our theory section because this is kind of spiraling into theory territory.
- [125:59]
Hannah
Anyways.
- [126:00]
Carly
It's time for your signet sparring professors to help you hone your farsight and precognition signets. It will be a short session today.
- [126:08]
Violet Sorrengail
We say that as we have spiraled.
- [126:10]
Carly
This whole episode, there's this quote in the book. It says, there's no way under Amari sky. And I found this very, very interesting. I'm starting to think the gods perhaps have different territories on this planet. We have the Bay of Malak, the Dunas river, and now we have Amari's sky. And I think the Irids and Amari are linked. Amari is the queen of the gods, and the Irids consider themselves above dragonkind. So I think that we're going to find out that they're linked and that they have these different territories, and maybe that's why some of their magic doesn't work in other areas. But additionally, I want to tie in really quickly going back to our astrology conversation. Lyra is associated with the night sky. It is a constellation which is part of Sagittarius, which is the archer, which ties into the zinal gifts. The arrow that killed Trager.
- [127:06]
Hannah
Shut the fuck.
- [127:09]
Violet Sorrengail
First of all, Taylor Swift is a Sagittarius and Rebecca Yarros is a huge Swiftie. Taylor Swift has a song called Archer?
- [127:18]
Carly
Yes, she does.
- [127:19]
Violet Sorrengail
That's not coincidental.
- [127:20]
Hannah
What's it about? Briefly, you don't have to say all the lyrics, but is it related to this, the archer?
- [127:25]
Violet Sorrengail
Literally, this song is about this person who is anxious, and it is written and recorded to make you feel anxious as you're. Can you see right through me? As some of the lyrics. I see right through me.
- [127:39]
Carly
We have an archer, we have an arrow. It all ties into the gods. I don't have a fully fleshed out theory here yet, but this is all weirdly connected for me.
- [127:47]
Violet Sorrengail
It's weirdly connected. The fact that that stands for a constellation sky that's specifically Sagittarius.
- [127:54]
Hannah
I'm still thinking Amari's sky. I totally buy the different territories because it's just like, oh, Zeus is the sky, Poseidon's the ocean. Like, stuff like that. Like, I buy it, but it makes sense, too, how the different geographical areas have different access to magic. Like, maybe it is because of the Irids being more closely associated with Amari that they're able to. To have magic, whereas the other dragons can't.
- [128:19]
Carly
And we have that quote later on. It's not in the chapters we've covered so far where she talks about how, like, she looks up at the sky and she has this weird, overwhelming feeling to pluck strands of magic from the sky and weave runes. And so I just think this is all connected and I find it very.
- [128:34]
Violet Sorrengail
Interesting, which I would like to point out is specific to Endarna's magic, correct?
- [128:40]
Carly
Yep.
- [128:41]
Violet Sorrengail
I mean, if we think about the fact that the other dragons, they talk about their power being from the Earth, but Enjarna's in the Irides, could be from the sky, which, if you think about the line about Violet being able to command the sky to surrender its.
- [128:55]
Carly
Greatest power, it's all connected.
- [128:59]
Violet Sorrengail
Holy shit.
- [129:00]
Hannah
I'm still just like Amari to lira to the constant Taylor Swift to the archer Zeno Trager. What?
- [129:11]
Carly
What? Yeah, your girl researches. That's what she does.
- [129:16]
Violet Sorrengail
I Love it.
- [129:17]
Hannah
Like in Greek mythology, the archers, the huntress too. And then there's also Apollo, who also has archery. I don't know. I'm gonna stop. But they're the sun and the moon. They're the sun and the moon. I'm gonna stop.
- [129:34]
Carly
I feel like I broke your guys brains a little bit. Sorry about that.
- [129:37]
Hannah
Yeah, it's okay. I have a much calmer theory. Okay, so just Rebecca brought back the quote. The right way isn't the only way. And I think that's foreshadowing Zaden turning fully Venon and also reaffirming that there are other routes someone can take to find a solution to the Venon problem. I believe that Zaden turning Venon is going to play a key part in dismantling the Venom from the inside. Even if Navarre will perceive him as the enemy.
- [130:05]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah, I think. I mean, I think we've talked about before how we think that that's really the end goal of this book. It's not just curing Xaden, it's figuring out a solution for. Is there even a way to cure what it is to be Venom? Does it need to be cured?
- [130:19]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [130:20]
Violet Sorrengail
So, Carly, you set me up for that? You got me thinking, girl.
- [130:26]
Carly
All right.
- [130:26]
Violet Sorrengail
And for our final one, when Emmaterio reveals that quote, the last time a Shadow and lightning wielder fought side by side, they manage to drive the Vennon back into the Barrens for a few hundred years. We'll figure out how to do it again. I want to point out he specifically says side by side. Okay. Violet feeds us her interpretation of this thinking. Zayden and I are the first of our signets to live simultaneously since the Great War. End quote. But I do not interpret side by side as living simultaneously. I interpret it as them being on the same side of whatever war is going on at the same time as being alive. To me, it implies that there have been more occasions when a Shadow wielder and Lightning wielder were alive at the same time, but one was Venon and the other was a dragon rider. Meaning they were not fighting side by side.
- [131:41]
Carly
I love that.
- [131:42]
Violet Sorrengail
Which it's really interesting if you consider it in line with the whole. We've said it so many times this episode, even the whole history repeats itself theme that seems to be alluded through throughout the series.
- [131:57]
Carly
Mm.
- [131:58]
Hannah
It's just so interesting to me now that we have Lynx thrown into the mix, because. Is it the scales? Like, is it Venon versus Rider? Is it. Lynx is still a writer, but maybe not fighting for them. Like, maybe. What if he's like a corrupt writer, but, like, Zaden is still on her side even though he's Venon? Like, it's just like, weird now that we have a third person here and he's another shadow wielder at the same time.
- [132:26]
Violet Sorrengail
Carly, you mentioned something earlier being what keeps you up at night, what you like, think about every waking moment. For me, it is this because I keep coming back to it. I try and always think about what are the assumptions we're making when we establish theories or things like that. I think we are making the assumption that before Zayan turned, having Violet and Zaden on the same side was a balance in the magic system. And I don't think we can actually confidently say that because is it theophany that told us that many times that magic has been imbalanced and it attempts to balance itself? But what I want to point out is that we can't take for granted and assume that it was balanced before Zayden turned. Now, technically, Link's manifesting the signet for the counterparts. Part of it would lend that they. It would imply that was balancing it out. But I strongly feel like the end goal is balanced, but we are not balanced. And it didn't necessarily mean. I don't know if it changed to balanced or from balanced when Zaden turned Venon. Does that make sense?
- [133:41]
Hannah
Yeah, it's like plot twist. The Venin actually care about the universe and they're just trying to maintain balance.
- [133:48]
Violet Sorrengail
Yeah, well, and even thinking if we take that Venon are completely evil. I guess I'm trying to point out that there was no even line. We can't assume that there was an even line of good and evil having that same balance of magic before Xaden turned. Maybe he was the balance.
- [134:07]
Hannah
I think he could have been.
- [134:09]
Violet Sorrengail
I think we try and think of it as an even exchange every single time we see a scenario like that. And I just want to point out that we have not.
- [134:18]
Hannah
It's not about Zaden. But what if Theophany died so quickly because Lilith just died and Lilith was her balance.
- [134:25]
Carly
But then that would mean there has to be, like, some bigger force at play within magic making sure there are counterparts die. Yeah.
- [134:33]
Violet Sorrengail
It's implied that nature is that bigger force.
- [134:36]
Carly
Yeah, but is nature just killing Venon and riders when it's out of balance? Or are they creating other signets? So it's like.
- [134:43]
Violet Sorrengail
Well, then you get into, like, fate.
- [134:45]
Carly
Well, yeah, that's why I'm like, I don't know. That that's what we have are working with in this series. So I don't know. I'm not leaning that way. I think that that just opens up a whole can of worms.
- [134:55]
Hannah
I'm just saying the Irids can go invisible and Theophany seem to worship them. Like there was reverence there with the Irids and they do see themselves as superior compared to the other dragons. And then Darna's the one that keeps saying nature likes everything in balance. What if it's the Irids?
- [135:15]
Violet Sorrengail
Damn, this whole series is such a mind fuck in the best way. I love this. But also I'm like, I don't think I can get a grip on reality for any of these theories we have.
- [135:28]
Carly
I definitely think I leave filming with more questions than answers because I feel like we just bring up so many more things where I'm like, ooh, I gotta think about that. But I just don't see Lynx becoming a shadow wielder is like this one for one counterbalance. Because like, if she. If Xaden became a shadow wielder because there was already a Venom shadow wielder, which you guys know, I suspect because I think his grandfather was probably a shadow wielder who turned Venom. That means we have two shadow wielders potentially now on the Venom side. Oh, and only Links on this side. So are we gonna see another shadow wielder? And also they always talk about how Zaden was so much more powerful than anyone suspected, that they hadn't seen a shadow wielder this powerful in a really long time. But just because Lynx is a shadow wielder doesn't mean he's going to be as powerful as Zaden and be a proper one to one balance. And also Zaden's had time to hone his signet and develop it and train it and Link's just got that signet and that's going to take time. Time they don't have.
- [136:24]
Hannah
What if they can only do puppet shows?
- [136:28]
Violet Sorrengail
That's cute. I mean, I think it's also like, it begs so many questions. We don't have evidence enough to say if it was balanced or not. But like, maybe Zaden turning Venom was Violet's balance. Oh.
- [136:39]
Carly
Oh, I like that.
- [136:42]
Violet Sorrengail
Right? I mean that. Thanks. But I just. If they're supposedly like this insanely powerful duo. But again, it just prompts, were we balanced to begin with? Are we balanced now? We have no idea.
- [136:58]
Hannah
What if that's why Theophany had to die? Because Zeta. No, I'm just kidding.
- [137:02]
Violet Sorrengail
It just begs so many questions and I think that there's just. I mean, who knows? Anyways, I'm really proud of that one.
- [137:09]
Hannah
I'm operating on two brain cells. @ this point. I feel like my brain has been. Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying, like you guys destroyed my brain. Like we all were.
- [137:20]
Violet Sorrengail
Like what?
- [137:21]
Carly
Yeah, our theories blew up each other's brains.
- [137:24]
Ryan Reynolds
Yep.
- [137:25]
Hannah
And that wraps up our Deep Dive episode on Onyx Storm Chapters five through eight. Thank you so much for listening. Before we go, we do want to give a special shout out to our newest Feathertail Patreon members Sarah M. And Alexis S. Thank you all for supporting the podcast and helping us continue to create high quality content. If you'd like to hear your name in a future episode, you can join our Feather Tales Tier three and we'll make sure to shout you out in our next recorded episode.
- [137:51]
Violet Sorrengail
As a Feathertail, you'll also get exclusive ad free full video episodes with the option of audio only, early access to our regular season episodes and PDF resources including Carly's weekly Onyx Storm annotations which release alongside our Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive episodes plus more. If you would like to join but would prefer to keep your name private, just let us know. You can check out our Patreon linked in the show notes down below to see all of the perks across our three tiers. We also have a base tier for general support donations as well. And if Patreon isn't for you, there are still plenty of ways to help support us. Leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify subscribing, recommending us to your fellow Empyrean readers and simply tuning in to each episode goes so far.
- [138:35]
Carly
Thank you again for listening. Don't forget to join us for our next episode where we deep dive chapters nine through 12. If you haven't already, check out our first season chapter by chapter's deep dive on fourth wing through the Lens of Iron Flame. There are over 30 hours of binge worthy content to explore where we pick up all of the things that Iron Flame changed about Fourth Wing, including all the times Zaden used his intrinsic abilities.
- [138:54]
Hannah
As always, we encourage you to email us all of your thoughts, theories and suggestions. Feel free to DM us on Instagram or join us over on our free Discord Group chat. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. It would mean the world to us.
- [139:08]
Violet Sorrengail
Until next time, Dearest fantasy readers, Prepare yourselves for a tornado of revelations as we continue our journey through the Empyrean series. Yay. It's such a good episode.
- [139:30]
Hannah
I'm still just like, so good. What?
- [139:32]
Violet Sorrengail
Those theories.
- [139:33]
Hannah
There's a reason I don't read anybody's theories until the end.
- [139:38]
Carly
Well, that's the reason why I don't put mine in. I'll put in like a line and then everybody's like, what the hell is this? And I'm like, you'll see. Just you wait.
- [139:46]
Ryan Reynolds
You are no dummy, but you're kind of acting like one. You used to crush it in school, outsmarting opponents on the field, and now, well, you're still smart, but not exactly challenging yourself. You could be advancing nuclear engineering in the world's most powerful navy. You were born for it. So make the smart choice. You can be smart or you can be nuke smart. Become a nuclear engineer@navy.com nukesmart America's Navy forged by the sea.
- [140:15]
Kinsey
Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what big wireless does. They charge you a lot, we charge you a little. So naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right. We're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch.
- [140:39]
Violet Sorrengail
$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra speeds lower above 40 GB.
- [140:45]
Kinsey
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