Ep 5 Hints and Clues Rebecca Yarros Has Dropped About Onyx Storm: PART 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dear Fantasy Reader - Episode 5: "Hints and Clues Rebecca Yarros Has Dropped About Onyx Storm: PART 2"

Release Date: January 8, 2025
Hosts: Hannah, Kinsey, and Carly

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Introduction

In the latest installment of Dear Fantasy Reader, Episode 5 delves deep into the anticipated release of Onyx Storm, the forthcoming book in Rebecca Yarros’ Empyrean series. This episode, aptly titled "Hints and Clues Rebecca Yarros Has Dropped About Onyx Storm: PART 2," continues the trio's exploration of the latest revelations and subtle hints shared by Yarros about what readers can expect in the new installment.

Unveiling Dragon Society and Secrets

The hosts begin by dissecting Yarros’ recent insights into the dragon society within the Empyrean universe.

• Hannah (02:51): Quotes Yarros discussing dragons’ hidden society:
  “They have a whole society that we don't get to see because they just don't. We aren't cool enough for them. We are temporary to them.”
• Kinsey (04:11): Ponders the enigmatic dragon Indarna, highlighting her potential knowledge:
  “She's like a teenager who's the queen of her own breed. She can do whatever she wants.”

The discussion reveals that dragons will remain largely mysterious, with more information expected primarily through the character Indarna. The hosts speculate on the implications of dragon secrets, linking them to broader themes of trust and betrayal within the series.

Dragon Family Dynamics and Culture

Yarros’ interviews shed light on the intricate family structures and cultural norms among dragons.

• Carly (05:27): Explores the negative effects of dragon secrecy:
  “The secrecy is really one of those things that's going to have really hurt them more than it's helped them.”

The hosts connect these insights to character interactions in previous books, emphasizing how withheld information among dragonkind has set the stage for upcoming conflicts and challenges for the protagonists.

Violet’s Evolving Powers and Signets

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Violet’s mysterious second signet and its implications.

• Hannah (24:57): Highlights Yarros’ hint about Violet’s second signet:
  “Violet's second signet… is it going to be revealed in book three.”
• Carly (52:13): Discusses the subtlety of signet clues buried within "Iron Flame":
  “Every single hint you would need to know what her second signet is is in Iron Flame.”

The hosts analyze Yarros’ intention for Violet’s second signet to be an “obvious” detail, yet one that many fans have dedicated extensive analysis to uncovering. They debate potential abilities, including distance wielding and other magical powers, drawing connections to previous books' lore.

Character Arcs and Potential Sacrifices

The episode delves into character development and speculates on possible sacrifices and pivotal moments in "Onyx Storm."

• Kinsey (75:10): Predicts Taryn’s ultimate fate:
  “I think Zaden is going to feel jealous… Maybe not even a healthy amount.”
• Carly (76:31): Offers a heartfelt hope regarding Ri’s safety:
  “Please don’t touch Rhi.”

The hosts express their fears and hopes for beloved characters, anticipating significant emotional scenes and character departures that will drive the narrative forward.

Provocative Ending and Emotional Stakes

Yarros hints at a climactic and emotionally charged ending for "Onyx Storm."

• Brit in Bookland (60:53): Shares Yarros’ excitement for a pivotal scene:
  “A really cool scene early on when everything's going to shit with Bezgaeth…”
• Hannah (65:06): Reflects on the impending emotional impact:
  “Fill in a lot of our questions about the theories that we're building.”

The discussion underscores the high stakes and emotional depth that readers can expect, with the hosts preparing themselves for both joyous and heartbreaking moments.

Speculative Theories and Final Thoughts

In the concluding segment, the hosts exchange theories and prepare for the upcoming challenges posed by the new book.

• Carly (73:18): Speculates on unexpected character deaths:
  “Someone else dies in this book than she expected to…”
• Kinsey (78:22): Anticipates Dane’s redemption arc:
  “It's gonna be his end. Redemption, I think.”

The conversation culminates in a blend of excitement and anxiety, with the hosts eagerly awaiting the release of "Onyx Storm" and the ensuing revelations that will shape the future of the Empyrean series.

Conclusion

Episode 5 of Dear Fantasy Reader offers an engaging and comprehensive analysis of Rebecca Yarros’ hints about Onyx Storm. Through meticulous discussion and insightful speculation, Hannah, Kinsey, and Carly provide listeners with a rich understanding of what to expect, fueling anticipation for the next chapter in the Empyrean saga. Whether you're a seasoned fan or new to the series, this episode is a treasure trove of theories, easter eggs, and heartfelt fandom moments that prepare you for the thrilling journey ahead.

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Notable Quotes:

• Hannah (02:51):
  “They have a whole society that we don't get to see because they just don't. We aren't cool enough for them. We are temporary to them.”

• Kinsey (04:11):
  “She's like a teenager who's the queen of her own breed. She can do whatever she wants.”

• Carly (05:27):
  “The secrecy is really one of those things that's going to have really hurt them more than it's helped them.”

• Hannah (24:57):
  “Violet's second signet… is it going to be revealed in book three.”

• Carly (52:13):
  “Every single hint you would need to know what her second signet is is in Iron Flame.”

• Hannah (65:06):
  “Fill in a lot of our questions about the theories that we're building.”

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Note: All timestamps correspond to the moments within the podcast where the quotes were mentioned.

Transcript

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[Hannah]

Dearest fantasy readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader podcast podcast, Part two of unpacking all the clues. We have gathered that Rebecca Yarros has revealed about what we can expect for Onyx Storm. I'm Hannah.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey.

[Carly]

And I'm Carly. If you haven't listened to part one, go do that first.

[Kinsey]

And technically, these are all light Onyx Storm spoilers, so if you want to go into Onyx Storm completely surprised, stop listening. This podcast is also rated R in content and in language.

[Hannah]

With that jumping right back in where we left off. All right, now let's talk about all of the hints that Rebecca has given us about the dragons in the London Q and A. Rebecca said, quote, they the dragons have a whole society that we don't get to see because they just don't. We aren't cool enough for them. We are temporary to them. End quote. And the interviewer asked at all, and Rebecca responded. I mean, you're never in, like, a dragon pov, but you get to know more and more as Taryn starts to trust Violet more. Not that he doesn't trust her, but as their relationship grows and grows to start to learn more and more. And because of Andarna, who's like, screw that, end quote. So all of that says the dragon secrets are staying pretty secretive. We will find out more, mostly from Indarna. I love that she doesn't give two fucks. She's like, here, I don't care. Like, let's just spell all of it out. Well, if there's any dragon I would want to know more from, it's the one that's over 650 years old and could hear in her egg. Bet she knows a lot more than Taryn does. Yeah, imagine what she overheard.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, and she can't get in trouble for spilling the tea if she's the elder of her own den.

[Carly]

Yeah, she's like a teenager who's like, you know, queen of her own breed. She can do whatever she wants.

[Kinsey]

Oh, man.

[Hannah]

I wonder what the true limitations are on the elders of the den. Yeah, clearly there's still limitation on killing another dragon because she had to have that meeting with the Empyrean. But that's really intriguing. Now, in the interview with Christopher Paolini, when discussing the dynamics between dragons being superior to humans and acting like jerks, Rebecca said, quote, I think there's a lot of stuff in my third book coming up. It's like, is this culture what the dragons are supposed to do? What they could have been or things like that. End quote. And she goes on to give us more details on the dragons. In that same interview, you learn more about how they establish their. Their families and their dens and how that's important to them. But they're very secretive, and there's reasoning for that. But, yeah, the third book explores a lot of themes about the dragon family.

[Carly]

Yeah, I think we're going to learn that this secrecy within dragonkind, that it's kind of led to this issue where when you hold intel too close, you also set yourself up to fail. Like when you're not sharing with the people you're supposed to be allies with and they don't know this huge thing that's happening, how can you possibly be prepared? And I think the secrecy is really one of those things that's going to have really hurt them more than it's helped them.

[Hannah]

Well, we already saw that a little bit on the micro scale with Violet and Taryn. Right. Like, when Violet finds out about Vennon being real and Wyvern being real, Taryn agrees that he should have told her sooner. It wasn't really his choice to make right then. But if he could do it over again, he will in the future, make those decisions, to trust her with that information, because she could have prepared herself and the other writers for even knowing that Wyvern existed and what she did know about them. Like, there's things that if we tie that to the overarching Empyrean and dragon culture of the secrets, they weren't telling the riders. So, yeah, while Taryn was out giving Violet these advanced flight maneuvers, none of the other riders were doing that. They weren't getting those skills. And so now we're at a situation where all of a sudden we have this global war with these monsters that none of the soldiers essentially knew existed. They've got to learn really quick how to fight them. And there's so much information that they still don't even know with the little interaction and information they have. So it's like they set themselves up, as you said, for failure, essentially, by holding that so close. Maybe the thought was. And what I think it is, is that they thought, well, if people don't know that it's possible to turn Venin, there will be less people turning Venin. And so maybe that is why they kept it such a secret, but now it's biting them in the ass because they don't know how to fight it back.

[Carly]

Yeah, I definitely think that's part of it. Of, like, they don't want people knowing that they could turn. I think that that's also why the writer's quadrant is fly or die. There's no like, getting that close to power and then just being like, you know, I think I'm just gonna bounce over to the infantry quadrant. This isn't working out.

[Hannah]

The most power hungry people away from power and what are they gonna do? Go steal it on their own? That's literally creating venom. Yeah.

[Carly]

If you're willing to die for it, then what else are you willing to do for it? So I think that's why the writer's quadrant is very much a, you know, fly or die situation. I mean, I think there's also like a lot of themes around is it unnecessarily brutal and war in general in these books that are being explored. But I also think that there is an interesting commentary here on keeping people from power. Like, what are they afraid of? So I think dragonkind has a lot of fears about people turning Venon. But also I think we're gonna find out that there's fears about why people originally turned Venin. Another episode.

[Hannah]

Now, we talked a bit about this earlier, but in the Melbourne Q and A, Rebecca was asked if a dragon can choose to unbond a rider without the rider dying. And Rebecca responded very suspiciously, quote, what an interesting thought. Which is the same exact phrase she used earlier for a different question.

[Carly]

So I will just use this moment to point out that the very first rule of the Codex is a dragon without their rider is a tragedy, but a rider without their dragon is dead. And it is the only thing in the Codex that isn't a rule enforced by navarre. Everything else is an enforceable rule. Why does it need to be in the Codex Unless it's an enforced rule?

[Hannah]

Just so you're on team, they cannot unbond a rider and the rider still live.

[Carly]

Oh, no, I think that they can. I think this is an enforced rule from the Empyrean that the rider has to die.

[Hannah]

Are you thinking that that's because if, say, the dragon dies and that human no longer has power, that they then want to go steal the power and turn venom?

[Carly]

Possibly. But I think we're going to find out, though, that this was something that was enforced potentially by the Empyrean, that the riders have to die if their dragon dies? Like, I think it's possible that they could bond in a way or break the bond in a way that wouldn't kill the rider.

[Hannah]

Interesting. In special case scenarios. Hmm. Because I've always Kind of interpreted it as being like a natural. It's even above and away from the Empyrean. Like, it's just the rules of magic in the world. But I love the thought that it's actually orchestrated essentially by the Empyrean.

[Carly]

Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to find out that it's not necessarily something that had to be that way. Maybe it is now. Maybe once you bond your writer a certain way, there's no undoing that. But I. I think we're gonna find out that. Yeah. That this was enforceable, because I just. I find it odd that it's the first rule of the Codex and it's the only thing that we're assumed to believe is not just an enforced rule, that it's just like a natural thing that just happens. Everything else in there is like a rule that is enforced.

[Hannah]

On to Andarna's section. In the Variety interview, the interviewer said, andarna's den is not named in Iron Flame. Correct. I'm not missing the name for the secret seventh den of Iridescent Dragons. And Rebecca responded, no, you're not missing it. You're looking at future books for that. End quote. I'm excited for this one because I didn't really think about the fact that they might have names to their den, because from the human's perspective, it's just the colors, but she's not a specific color. So that begs the question of what do they start to call her? Not just humans, but what is the Empyrean, the dragon culture's names for each of the dens. Very intrigued to find that out.

[Carly]

Yeah, me too.

[Kinsey]

Well, at threshing, don't they kind of mention the dens a little bit when they give their full name? But with Andarna, she just said Anandarna Yoram. She didn't say, like, who sired her.

[Hannah]

Family line.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, family line.

[Carly]

Right.

[Kinsey]

And Professor Kaori, actually, probably. If I'm. I need to reread. I think Professor Kaori mentioned the den that Taryn is from, like, just in dragonkind class, because that's something that they know, like, where they're hatched. But she never mentioned her family line at threshing. She just gave her name, which was.

[Hannah]

Very sneaky on Rebecca's part.

[Carly]

Typical. Suspicious Andarna. Yeah, it really does. Typical.

[Hannah]

Now, in that same Variety interview, the interviewer asked, and Dandarna says she chose to hatch when she heard the Elders talking about how Violet was predicted to be the greatest scribe, not a writer. Why? And Rebecca responded, quote, book three, man, and later said, quote, but everything regarding Andarna is coming good. All throughout season one of our fourth thing through the Lens of Iron Flame episodes, I just built upon this prophecy theory about this specifically. I am so stoked for the Andarna of everything. I figured she could draw it out and really address it in later books. But, like, book three, we're about to get some information in book three. Are you kidding? I'm so excited.

[Kinsey]

Why are the Elders of Dragon dense even talking about scribes? Why do they care? They're not writers.

[Hannah]

Well, they're probably. You know, I wonder if they're just smart enough to know where human power lies, Right? But you're right. Even then, she was such a big topic of conversation. So it's like, that's suspicious. And I cannot wait to find out more. In the Entertainment Weekly interview, one of the interviewers said, I feel like there's still more to uncover about Indana's breed. At first I thought, is it going to be that she's, like, half griffin, half dragon, or some other? Because the camouflaging thing you hinted at, and that's awesome. But I still think that there's more, end quote. And Rebecca responded, there is an entire book worth, end quote. I would like to point out only one book worth. Like, it could be, like, the phrasing like, oh, I could write a whole book about that. But why couldn't she just been like, yeah, three books worth. Like, why only one book? Are we getting all that revealed?

[Kinsey]

I almost wonder if she's referring to a book within the universe. So, like, her father's research, because.

[Carly]

Oh, I like that.

[Hannah]

That was an incredible connection.

[Kinsey]

I mean, this is weird wording. I feel like that's. It could be. My first thought was, with Harry Potter, she wrote other books, like Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, things like that. They're textbooks. So to me, I'm like, you know what? What if it's one of those situations where it's a book within the book and that's what she's referring to.

[Carly]

I love that.

[Hannah]

Which would also lend to. If Violet finds it in book three, then that could actually be what she's referred to in this whole little hint section we just went over. Oh, my God, I love that theory. That makes the one book comment make way more sense to me.

[Kinsey]

We'll see in, like, a month's time, we'll be like, we were so wrong.

[Carly]

Hannah's thinking face is the best. No, I think we're right. No.

[Hannah]

But if you called that, we are rolling the tapes. We're pulling that clip. We got the receipts. That's incredible. I mean, it does make sense, right? Like, he supposedly wrote about feather tales. Yeah, but if she gets to find that and then gets to learn all about it. Because I wondered how much he was able to actually research before he was, you know.

[Kinsey]

Definitely. He definitely learned something he shouldn't have.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

So.

[Hannah]

Yeah. But all of that about her. Done. Side note, was darn it alive at all, or was she only ever in the egg when he was alive?

[Carly]

I think she hatched on Violet's 18th birthday, so she was technically out of her egg when the dad was alive.

[Hannah]

For about a year. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Or maybe a few months.

[Hannah]

Long enough for him to go talk to her. Can they talk as hatchlings? There's so many interesting things here. She could definitely, like, understand humans in her egg, so it's not like she couldn't understand him as a hatchling. But I wonder if she could communicate back. Ah, okay.

[Carly]

I just don't understand how he would have gotten to her. Like, how would the dad have gotten in the veil at some point?

[Hannah]

Because no human is allowed in the veil. How did he get that? Trusted to even be doing research on feather tales to begin with? Why would a dragon not have roasted him immediately? That backstory alone is so intriguing to me. Not even just finding out what his research was, but how did he get it?

[Carly]

Well, we don't know that he was researching the feathertails with the dragon's knowledge, so we don't know what he was digging into and where he found this information.

[Hannah]

I think my assumption is, then how else would he be researching feathertails if he couldn't get close to one?

[Carly]

Well, so we know that he found some connection to the Crowland Uprising in feathertails, so my guess was that he was trying to find text that hadn't been redacted from around that time. But I have a lot of thoughts on that, but we'll talk about it another time, because I could probably go on that for, like, 15 minutes straight. Nobody needs that.

[Hannah]

Putting a pin in it.

[Carly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Putting a proverbial dragon egg in it.

[Carly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

That didn't really work.

[Kinsey]

No. But also with nature documentaries, they don't necessarily have to be right up to whatever animal they're observing and researching. So he could be at a very far distance.

[Hannah]

I just wonder how. Without the dragons.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Like, feathertails are one of their best kept secrets.

[Hannah]

So maybe he was by a dragon for. I think that's less interesting, though.

[Carly]

Part of My suspicion on the dad, though, is that Violet is going to find out that I have two lines of thinking with what happened to our dad, but I think the betrayal is either going to come from the dragons or the marked ones. And that she's going to find out because, like, those. That those are her allies in all of this. Right? So the biggest twist to what happens to the dad is that, you know, the bigger twist of the knife is that it's the people she's currently trusting, which are the marked ones and the dragons. And so if the dragons found out, hey, this guy knows too much about feather tales. And maybe they told leadership. You got to deal with him. He knows something he's not supposed to know about feather tales. Because we know the dragons protect that information at all costs, right? No one's supposed to.

[Hannah]

Wait. I'm not following how that's connected to the marked ones.

[Carly]

Well, it's not. So I think there's two possibilities. So I think either the dad found out too much about feathertails, the dragons figured it out, and, like, ordered leadership. Like, hey, this is part of our agreement. No one's allowed to know about that. You got to take him out. Or the other twist of the knife would be that, you know, the marked ones were in the quadrant when the dad was alive. I think it's possible that one of them offed the dad in revenge, and I think it might be Gary.

[Hannah]

Okay, my brain short circuited, so it took me a second to catch up there, but holy fuck.

[Carly]

Because, like, you know, if Violet finds out it was leadership, it'll be a betrayal. She'll be upset, obviously, but it's not going to be a surprise, right? Because she knows what they're capable of at this point. So the bigger surprise will be that it's someone she already trust. Which are the dragons or the marked ones?

[Hannah]

What if it was Imogen and she wiped everyone's memories?

[Kinsey]

Imogen wouldn't have had a signet yet.

[Hannah]

Okay, yeah, guys, I don't want that to be right because I want to keep loving all of them.

[Kinsey]

It would have to be a third one. So, like, Garak or Zaden or like, someone else of their year?

[Hannah]

Because they were the first Zaden did that. You think it wouldn't have satiated his need for revenge?

[Carly]

Well, that's why I think it's Garak. Because Garrick was the one that was like, hey, guys, like, let's not punish Violet for what her mom did. I think he already got his need for revenge worked out.

[Hannah]

Hannah, you okay?

[Carly]

Your Face.

[Kinsey]

I. I've already heard this theory, so I'm not like super phased right now.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God.

[Carly]

Okay, I'm sorry, we've gotten really, really off topic here. But yeah, I just think that there's going to be an extra twist to the knife, that it's going to turn out that there is someone involved that she's currently trusts.

[Hannah]

I'm not gonna lie. I love how we rabbit holed straight into that. That was incredible. I cannot wait for our theories episode because this is my favorite part of this podcast.

[Kinsey]

It's gonna be a gay mess.

[Hannah]

Do that. Yes. And I love it. I love it. All right, on to a little hint about the dynamic between Andarna, Taran and Violet as a trio in London. When discussing Taryn and Andarna and what Rebecca loves about Andarna, she said, quote, there is a moment in Onyx Storm where Violet's like, I can't fight you both. I just need you on my side. And Darna's like, I'm there. And Taryn is like, this is illogical. You are being stupid. And this, this, this. And then Darna's like, let's go. End quote.

[Carly]

I'm here for the supportive energy.

[Hannah]

So that's actually two things that we've gotten where Taryn is much more reserved. Dragon secrets and whatever plans Violet concocts. And Darna is just like Team Violet through and through. Like, you lead the way. I think there's more to the inherent trust that and Darna has in Violet connected to the prophecy. Moving on. Speaking of Violet's dad, we got some clues. I'm very intrigued to see how these tie into the conversation we just had. In Columbus, Ohio, Rebecca was asked, do we learn more about Violet's dad in Onyx Storm, Rebecca replied, yes. In Melbourne, Rebecca was asked if we would learn more about Violet's dad's research on Feather Tales. She replied, maybe all suspiciously.

[Carly]

Someone's got to take my microphone away. I can't wait to talk about Violet's dad.

[Kinsey]

We'll come back.

[Carly]

I'm so sorry.

[Hannah]

All we have is a yes and a maybe. But in Emerald City, someone asked, we get mentions of Violet's father's research, but we don't know even his name or more about him. So I wanted to ask if in your future books in the Empyrean series, we are going to explore more of that. End quote. And Rebecca responds, mm, just kidding. She said more than that. But she said, quote, mm, that's one of those things that's laid into Book one. That doesn't pop up until, I don't know, like, maybe book three. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. End quote. So we finally got confirmation. There we go.

[Kinsey]

I thought his name was just Papa Sorrengale.

[Hannah]

And she never even says that. We just, like, as a fandom, kind of gave it to him because we didn't have anything else to call him. So, yeah, I'm really excited to even have a name. Now onto Venin and the hints that Rebecca has given about them. In the Entertainment Weekly interview, Rebecca was asked, what are the key signs of telling the difference between the red eyes of a Venon and if you're just high or tired? And Rebecca responded. So that becomes very important in book three. End quote.

[Kinsey]

That was the quote.

[Hannah]

That was the quote.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

It's gonna be important.

[Kinsey]

Okay.

[Hannah]

She gives so much and so little.

[Carly]

Yeah, she's really the queen of that.

[Hannah]

She's gotten really good at it.

[Kinsey]

Well, they just gotta smoke more Churum and hide their identities, I guess.

[Hannah]

That seems dangerous.

[Kinsey]

No, but it's a ring. I feel like. I feel like if you're just smoking, your whole eye would be bloodshot. But usually with the venom, they get.

[Hannah]

A ring right in the initial stage, and then it starts to grow beyond.

[Kinsey]

Maybe that's why they're not allowed to smoke, Carly.

[Hannah]

Is that your theory? I saw you had a note on here for a theory. That's it, huh.

[Carly]

I have wondered if that's why they outlawed the term because they just didn't know how to tell the difference. And maybe there is, like, a more easily distinguishable difference. But in their panic to, like, not be concerned that someone's venom, that that's why they just outlawed it.

[Hannah]

That's intriguing, especially considering that Rebecca lives in Colorado. It's illegal here in Florida, so it's not a second, you know, when you're reading, it's not a second thought that it would be illegal. But she's in a fantasy world. She can make things illegal or not. So the fact that she put it in there, I actually think supports the theory that it's illegal in the book because of.

[Kinsey]

If they're going to, like, ban things like that, then why do they even still have Dragon Riders? If they're that terrified of people turning venom, then they wouldn't teach them how to channel power.

[Hannah]

Well, they still need to battle the Griffins over Navarre's lesser politics. They still need their little soldiers, you know? Also, it wouldn't make as fun of a book.

[Kinsey]

Okay, fine.

[Hannah]

All right, next in the Entertainment Weekly interview on the Topic of Venom. Rebecca said, as you leave book two, there's no other way but to explore what makes them them, how they become them, and if there's any way back. There we go. Finally, a hint about the possible, maybe not so possible cure. But I'm very, very intrigued because we do have a limited knowledge outside of some epigraphs and some in person interactions with Ven, and we don't know a ton about them. I'm really excited to explore that process because I think it would actually fill in a lot of our questions about the theories that we're building. Very excited for that next. In the Variety interview, when asked if Jack is lying when he tells Zayden that you cannot turn back from being Venon once you, Rebecca responded, quote, I mean, no one has ever. No one's seen it, but we haven't read book three yet, end quote. I love how sassy she is, but there we go. We have some hope that the cure is. Is. It's gonna. I feel like it's gonna. There's gonna be some sort of cure.

[Kinsey]

Also, like, he turned for love. So maybe nobody has turned back before because they haven't had a reason to. And they turned for the wrong reasons. Initially, they turned greedy. They wanted that power. We like to believe that Zaden isn't power hungry, so hopefully he'll have that desire to turn back and will be the first.

[Hannah]

Well, at the very least, if Zaden has a level of being power hungry, he's fucking powerful. Like, he has two of the most powerful signets you can have. I think even more than we understand it as of right now, especially more than he understands it. And so, like, I don't think it'd be wrong of him to be some level of, like, wanting the power, but I definitely think you're right, that the dynamics of him turning are, you know, such different circumstances that it's setting up for. If anyone could do it, Zaddy can.

[Kinsey]

Heck, yeah.

[Carly]

So it's true for most things.

[Hannah]

Yeah. No, that's right. Okay, so let's talk about a specific Venon, the Sage, or at least one Sage. In the Variety interview, the interviewer said, quote, the dream that Zayn has featuring the Sage in that final scene, which reveals how he began to turn Venon, appears to be the same dream that Violet has been having featuring the Sage throughout all of Iron Flame, but that Violet's dream has actually been from Zaden's POV this whole time. Does this mean the Sage, who says he's actually General always wanted Zayden or he wanted Zayden to get to Violet. Or he wants both. End quote. And Rebecca responded, I really hope you like book three. End quote. I see Kinsey rolling her eyes. That's the. She just confirms whether something will be. She doesn't give a ton of context around it as to avoid spoilers, but yes, this is her means of hinting that's that's how she does it.

[Kinsey]

But also, it's interesting to me that the interviewer said that Violet's dream has actually been from Zaden's POV the entire time. Because do we even know if it was technically Zaden's dream only? Did they both get it? I don't know. I know there's only so much she can say, like she can't tell us everything in an interview.

[Hannah]

Well, you're actually setting up perfectly for the next part. So that same interviewer followed up with quote, is it the same dream? They seem to have shared the dream and quote, and Rebecca responded. Or did they? It does seem like the same dream, doesn't it? I think you should really enjoy book three. I think book three should be just so enjoyable. End quote. There you go, Kenzie, how you feeling?

[Kinsey]

It's such a tease. This is why I like avoid this stuff because it just makes me want it now.

[Carly]

Well, for too much time analyzing those.

[Hannah]

Dreams, less than a month away from some answers till we have more questions. It's definitely just a teaser to satiate us in the meantime before we do inevitably have even more questions. But I love the fact that yes, we have all these theories and all these questions right now, but each book will get us closer to accurate theories and branching out. I'm so excited for the process. And even though this next book is going to take even longer between Iron Flame and Onyx Storm to book four, I have really enjoyed this process and the interactions of the theorizing. As much as I do want to read book four and five yesterday, I also love that in the meantime we're creating the tease that keeps it all so fresh and so exciting after all this time.

[Kinsey]

It's part of the fun.

[Hannah]

It is, yeah. Now onto the not so fun. Jack fucking Barlow. When asked in Sydney how much of a role Jack would play in Onyx Storm, Rebecca said, he's around and he serves a purpose. I always find with characters who do bad things, they're never two dimensional. To me there's always a reason. I think in order to have someone who does truly villainous things, you have to give them a realistic reason that you can almost empathize with. To be able to see both sides of it. And Jack's always wanted power, and he did what it took to get it, end quote.

[Kinsey]

I'm not empathizing with him. Sorry.

[Hannah]

I'm very curious about what she could do for providing his backstory, because that implies to me that we will get some. What could make us what she thinks could make us empathize with him.

[Kinsey]

I think he might just be used as a guinea pig just to, like, see if there's a way to turn people. Yeah. Honestly, at this point, she's really had.

[Hannah]

To have to put in some work, some heavy lifting in that to make us be able to empathize with him. But I'm very intrigued.

[Kinsey]

And it's going to have to come from Violet's perspective.

[Hannah]

Yeah. But I think Violet's a little bit more empathetic sometimes than we readers are. Even so. Especially when it comes to someone like.

[Carly]

Dain, you know, it just kind of goes back to becoming the monster, to fight the monster. Like, what was Jack's monster and why did he become like this? I think we're gonna find out some interesting connections about Jack to all of this story. So we'll see. We'll get there.

[Hannah]

For this book to be shorter than Iron Flame, she sure is setting up to talk about a lot.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Like, we're still not even. We're past halfway in this outline. But, like, there's still more that she says is in this.

[Carly]

All right.

[Hannah]

In the Entertainment Weekly interview, Rebecca was asked, do you know the exact moment that he, Jack, turned Venin? And Rebecca responded, quote, in my head, yes, end quote. The interviewer followed up with, it's the before or after threshing. That's what we're kind of like, can a dragon bond to a Venin? And Rebecca said, book three. Book three, end quote. And goes on to say that it explores a lot about Jack. Of course. Because what's going on in book three, you have to remember that Jack was not happy with his selection. He wanted Tern, and he felt like your power, it corresponds to which dragon you have. So he wanted the biggest, most powerful dragon, and he didn't get it. So Jack probably wouldn't have been satisfied with any level of power except for Taryn or Koda. End quote. Now, this, to me, says that Jack turned Venon after threshing. So while he was already bonded. Meaning Bay did not bond a Vennon knowing Jack was a Vennan. Right. And that we will get specific timing clarification in onyx Storm with Jack's backstory.

[Carly]

I think it definitely had to be between threshing and that challenge he had with Violet.

[Kinsey]

And you bet I paid attention to his eyes when I reread this book. And it was always described as cold and greedy and vicious and things like that, but it was never read until.

[Hannah]

The mat.

[Kinsey]

The mat. But this quote almost makes me wonder if he turned before that. Like, he's like, well, if I have venom power, shouldn't I have a powerful dragon? But I don't know. I still feel like he turned after he was bonded.

[Hannah]

The beginning of it made me feel like it could be either, because I started questioning, as the interviewer did, but Rebecca's response, specifically how she emphasizes how upset he was that he didn't get that dragon. I think she's telling us right there that that was his motive for turning. Venon and I talk about this a lot during, you know, the first season, Fourth Wing, through the Lands of Iron Flame, chapters by chapters. When we got to that set where we looked at, yes, Jack is power hungry, but he's also got a huge ego, which is wrapped up in it. And there's multiple times throughout his dynamic with Violet where she embarrasses him. You know, we get that, like, knife to the balls moment, but right before this mat scene where he pushes the power into her and his eyes are red. The mat scene right before that, she embarrasses him by all of the boys physically kicking him out of the gym. And I wonder if that was, like, the point somewhere between that mat incident where she does describe his eyes and they are not red or she's at least close enough to describe them. And the mat where he turns, I think it's off the page in that section. And I think it's so fascinating that Rebecca already painted in her mind what was going on for Jack behind the scenes there. That's fascinating to me.

[Carly]

I think that's a really good guess for, like, the time frame of when it happened in that little piece of time between those two events. I definitely think there's foreshadowing in four swing to indicate it's after threshing where they're in the, like. I don't know if you want to call it a cafeteria, like, in the next morning after threshing. And there's, like, this line about her being concerned about social dynamics. Yeah, but she's seeing him getting pushed out and. And people are thinking, oh, he's getting what he deserves. And there's, like, this line about her being more Concerned about how cornered dog will bite harder.

[Kinsey]

That's exactly what I was picturing.

[Carly]

Yeah. So I think there's foreshadowing for it being after threshing in fourth wing, personally.

[Hannah]

But isn't that such an interesting play on how Rebecca is trying to prove this point in so many ways? We talked about this with Bezgae specifically about, you know, if you don't make it to bond a dragon, you either keep trying and you bond one or you're dead. And they make sure through all these different means and under the guise that they're preparing you to bond. But it's interesting that Jack did bond one, but his power hungriness is so severe, it was not satiated with a mediocre dragon like Bade. And I think that dynamic is also super fascinating. Like, I don't really super care about Jack's origin, you know, his origin story, his monster that became a monster. But I am interested to see, like, as much as I don't want to be in Jack's head, I'm really interested to see the dragon dynamic from that, like, what happened in Bade's mind when he, first of all can read all of Jack's thoughts about how he's a mediocre dragon as soon as they bond. And it's like, you just picked this prick, and now he's not even acknowledging that you are a dragon and powerful and respecting you. And then that just snowballs into him, leading to turn Venon and then kill him. That's fucking crazy to me anyways. Fucking Jack.

[Carly]

Fucking Jack.

[Hannah]

There is one trend that Rebecca has commented on where people go hard for Jack. Like some people, fanfic, Jack, Violet, romance stuff going on. So I pulled this one specific part, but I wanted to give that context to explain how Rebecca reacted in this excerpt. So in Sydney, Rebecca was asked in a Q and a quote, is there potential for Jack Barlow to have his own romantic relationship now? Rebecca was extremely appalled. At least I interpreted it. And answered, quote, with who? The interviewer interjects that she is one of the people who thinks Jack is the real enemies to lovers. And Rebecca responded, are you getting enough sleep at night? Sure. If he wanted to, like, from his prison cell, hook up with somebody also in a prison cell, maybe that's all I've got for you, though. End quote.

[Kinsey]

Good. So to me, that means he's staying in a prison cell for one.

[Hannah]

If we take her word for it. Yeah. And that means no romance for Jack. Unless Caroline's also in a prison cell.

[Kinsey]

That's True.

[Hannah]

You know, which is probably not too far fetched. She's not usually too far behind him.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I will confidently say that Jack is not the true enemies to lovers here. Not with Violet.

[Hannah]

No, no, no.

[Carly]

That is not happening. No.

[Hannah]

We'll save that for fanfic.

[Kinsey]

So, yeah, I'll never read it.

[Hannah]

On to other not so love interests, Dane. In the Entertainment Weekly interview on the topic of Dane, Rebecca said, quote, so I think he has a lot to dig out from. I think that she, Violet, has some good evidence to back up that his intentions are real and true. I'll follow that one up with. In Sydney, when asked about how Dain's character is going to continue to develop, Rebecca said, next time on Onyx Storm, end quote. So we are not done with Dane's supposed redemption arc. Hopefully she does finish that out soon.

[Carly]

Yeah. If we could just see Dane learn how to apologize.

[Hannah]

Right? Yeah. That's all I ask. Is just like, I think, Carla, you put an apology without the butt on it once and that was.

[Carly]

Yeah, that's what I want.

[Hannah]

A couple more characters here. Zayden's mom. We got a hint. In the Entertainment Weekly interview, Rebecca's asked if Zaden's upbringing and his mom will come into play in the future and she says yes. That's all she said was yes. So does in the future mean book three? I don't know, but I know that that's like not a ton of context there. But, you know, it also just doubles down that she didn't mention Zaden's mom for just no reason. Like, there is a backstory that's an Easter egg she threw in books ago and is going to pay off eventually.

[Kinsey]

As long as we get answers now.

[Hannah]

Garak, specifically his signet. In Sydney, Rebecca was asked, what is Garrick's signet or why hasn't it been released or shown yet? And Rebecca answered, because you haven't read book three. It's very much in book three. I love it. End quote.

[Kinsey]

How many more of these quotes are going to end with her saying it's in book three? You'll love Onyx.

[Hannah]

The majority. The majority. Which again, this is just hints about this episode is hints about what to expect in Onyx Storm that she's given us. And that's her main mode. This next one, though, she didn't. So here you go. In Columbus, Ohio, when someone asked who Rebecca would want to be stuck on a deserted island with, she first said, zaden, wink, wink. But quote, if it's not Zaden, then it's going to be Garak, end quote, before adding quote. And you guys have no idea why, end quote.

[Kinsey]

Such a tease.

[Carly]

I know why.

[Hannah]

I know you think you know why.

[Kinsey]

Next episode.

[Hannah]

In Melbourne. Moving on in Melbourne, the interviewer asked Rebecca if Garak would realize that Imogen is into him. And Rebecca responded, what makes you think he doesn't know? Oh.

[Kinsey]

Ouch.

[Hannah]

That's messy and kind of harsh. Yeah, that's rough. They're in a death quadrant. Why would they not just at least be fuck buddies?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, take advantage of the time you have.

[Hannah]

Maybe he is doing it in the name of protecting her heart. But then why not just both of you fall in love? There's got to be something there. But it's interesting because if they ever have awkward interactions, she could just erase them. So it's not like he doesn't know the best things about her. Unless she's just being respectful of boundaries and not invading privacy.

[Carly]

Not being a terrible person.

[Hannah]

That's not as interesting. What is interesting are the hints we've got about the princes. Are you ready? In the Variety interview, Rebekah was asked, will we learn more about the Navarre royal family in the third book now that General Sorngill has outed Arryk as Kam, the son of the king? And Rebecca responded, you ready for this one, Kinsey?

[Kinsey]

Yep.

[Hannah]

Book three, man. But she goes on, because you also have a lot of bad blood between him and Zayden over what happened with his older brother, and you don't get to see a lot of that because you're never in Xaden's head for it, end quote. So this is referring to Zayden killing Cam's brother during Zayan's threshing, which I would like to point out that we connected in our fourth wing first season to Zaden killing him over bullying Garak, since Zaden said in an epigraph letter to Violet in Iron Flame that Sigale chose him for his ruthlessness after seeing him defend Garak. So that's gonna get messy, and I love it. But this is the one I'm most excited to talk about. This one, for me, is almost confirmation that the Halden theory that we will be diving deep into in the Theories episode I Cannot Wait is likely to come true in Sydney. When asked if Violet dated the prince, Let me be clear. The prince, not a specific name. Rebecca said, I think you should read the third book, end quote. You know, she's definitely seen that theory. Yeah. Or like, she's had to have seen that theory. Right.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And she's like. Because she didn't even go, which one? Or, like. Like, she didn't know. Just she's like, I think you should read the next one. You'd probably like that. It's kind of the vibe that I get from that. And, oh, I cannot wait to see Zaden jealous. I'm not talking like a love triangle. Just a healthy amount of jealousy, you know, Just some feral jealousy on Zades. Maybe not even a healthy amount. I would tip it a little unhealthy, our morally gray lover boy.

[Carly]

I'm here for a chaotic amount of jealousy.

[Hannah]

Yes. Yes. Only in the context that I'm confident that Violet will reassure him almost every step of the way. I think she might lean into it, like, because she's got some humor and some sass to her, but for the most part, I can definitely see her reaffirming, like, you are the shadow daddy here, honey. He's a prince, but he ain't got nothing on you, you know?

[Kinsey]

I mean, he did that for her with Kat, so.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Kinsey]

She can return the favor. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Now, he didn't let her let it go on long enough. I want what he did for Violet. I don't like feeling jealous through Violet, but I want Zaden to feel jealous.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

It's different. Okay.

[Carly]

It. Justice.

[Hannah]

Justice.

[Kinsey]

She can't borrow any more flight jackets.

[Hannah]

Nope. No Prince uniforms. You know, I can't wait. I hope that's so. Okay. All right. I'll save my fangirling for the Theories episode onto hints about Violet's hair in London. When asked about Violet's silver hair, Rebecca said, you will understand the reasons for it. She will grapple with the reasons for it. End quote. First, if you are a listener who is like, what are you talking about? I thought her hair was just a cool shade of silver. This is confirmation that there is a backstory behind why her hair is silver. It's not just a cool main character feature. There's a story to unpack. Let's fucking go. I can't wait. But as far as grapple with the reasons for it, that sounds like it's like, one she's not going to be happy with. We've discussed in previous episodes that there's theories floating around about Violet maybe being connected to dragons. And I don't think that that would actually be a negative thing for her. I lean to this being a Venin connection. So that's my interpretation of that quote.

[Carly]

I definitely think it's going to be something. Yeah. Like that. She doesn't like that. She's connected to.

[Hannah]

I agree. Now we do not know if these reasons will be revealed in book three or a future book. The only context that I could find was of someone commenting in Rebecca's Facebook group called Rebecca Yarros Fly Girl Girls saying apparently it's explained but she wasn't sure if it would get pulled in editing and explained in the fourth book so couldn't confirm. This was a question asked at the New Zealand Q and A event. End quote. Now they did not type out New Zealand, they just said nz. But there you go. And that event does not have footage so I could not go pull her exact quote from it. So sounds like it was written in Rebecca's original draft of Onyx Storm as of July when this event took place. But after that it was in the process of editing and could get pulled and saved for later books. So to toss up. I really hope we do get it though.

[Carly]

Yeah, I don't want to wait any longer. I want it now.

[Kinsey]

If not, hopefully we'll have at least a little bit more context going into book four so we can continue with our theorizing about her hair.

[Hannah]

You know, this is just my scrutinizing this. I interpret it that Rebecca would not have included the silver haired Vennon in the excerpt if we weren't getting more information about her silver hair in the rest of Onyx Storm. I feel like if that got pushed to book four, she would have saved that silver hair reveal for while we were actually reading the book and not as a precursor excerpt before we got the book.

[Kinsey]

Maybe it's the cliffhanger shit.

[Hannah]

Well, we've got a whole section on the last scene of the book. So before we go there though, let's talk about Violet's second signet. In the Variety interview article, when asked about Violet's second signet, Rebecca said, quote, I will tell you that that's third book, but every single hint you would need to know what her second signet is is in Iron Flame. It's manifested. Read it again and then call me. End quote.

[Kinsey]

What's her number?

[Hannah]

She doubled down on this in multiple other interviews, including the Entertainment Weekly interview and in the Melbourne Q and A. So she has said that multiple times. Now let's talk about the whole Violet's second signet is in one single line in Iron Flame thing. Very briefly. That is not what she said. It was seemingly taken out of context by an attendee's notes before the footage of her response released. What she said was that her editor wanted her to add in a Line that spelled it out for us, but that Rebecca didn't because she thought it was already obvious. I'm going to give you the direct quotes from all three interviews where she discussed it so that it is crystal clear across the board. First, in Sydney, she was asked, are there any Easter eggs in the first two books? You don't think anyone caught, end quote. Rebecca answered Violet's second signet. I totally thought it was obvious. I did. To the point where my editor was like, hey, should probably put in a line here. I was like, dude, no, people will catch it, end quote. In Melbourne, she said, quote, I thought you guys were going to pick it up. Like, my editor was like, you should put a line in that says this, end quote. But she thought, quote, we're good, they'll figure it out, end quote. In another interview in London, she reiterated this by stating, quote, it's in there so much that my editor was like, you could really make this moment at the end of the book where you're like. And ba da. And I was like, dude, no, they will have picked it up by then. Like, they would have had this internal, ah, it's here. Look, this just happened. And ah, I was like, I want to give them that moment. And then that moment didn't come, end quote. And she went on to say that she's enjoying the theories.

[Kinsey]

It just makes me wonder if I will be like, yeah, I knew it, or kicking myself. How did I not know? At least if it's one of my three rotating main theories, I'd be like, okay, I'm satisfied. How obvious is it?

[Hannah]

It blows my mind. One, that she says it was so obvious that she really didn't expect all of this. Yet people, including us, have hours, hours worth of content, have dedicated hours worth of rereads to find it. And there's so much, like, Carly, I think you put it really well when we were talking about it the other day and you said she either was so good at it. How did you word it? It was something about, I can't remember now either.

[Carly]

I remember having this conversation with you.

[Hannah]

Well, basically we were like, she didn't realize she accidentally left clues and Easter eggs for all these other possible signets in building out Violet's character development that she didn't realize she accidentally buried what.

[Kinsey]

She thought was obvious because she knows, her editor knows. So they're looking out for those clues. But we don't know. So we don't know which clues are important. We don't know if it applies, if it doesn't just off the top of my head, I could be like, she could be a distance wielder. She could be a truthsayer. She could have precognition. I don't know. There's kind of evidence for all of.

[Hannah]

It, but there's also some evidence against some of them. Oh, for sure. But we're about to get to that. You're great at these transitions today. Setting me up for it, Kenzie. First, she debunked indirectly the theory that Violet's second signet has to do with seeing the dead, specifically Liam. In the interrogation scene, Rebecca said, quote, I would like to remind everyone that in that scene, Violet is disconnected from her magic slash dragons by the serum. End quote. And that's from Emerald City Comic Con.

[Kinsey]

I was so glad she said that.

[Hannah]

Yes. To me, at least that makes it clear that that is not her second signet.

[Kinsey]

I had literally made a post about that and was arguing with people, and they're like, no, she definitely can see the dead as her signet. I'm like, she had the serum. So when Rebecca Yarros came out with that quote, I was like, oof. That was what I needed to hear.

[Hannah]

Validation. To be fair, if she keeps telling us it's obvious that is something that would be something that would be obvious. Except for the caveat that clearly she couldn't access any of her magic. And maybe some people justify it by saying that Andarna's magic is different. But this quote, to me here confirms that Rebecca is saying that's not the case. And Darna is still a dragon. She still abides by the same magic rules, at least in terms of the serum. Now, in London, when asked what signant Rebecca would have if she had one, she responded, I would. Distance wield. It isn't something you've seen yet, but I would be able to, like, take a step and be somewhere else. End quote. To me, this debunks the theory that Violet's second signet is distance wielding, because again, she has said Violet's second signet is all throughout Iron Flame and refers to distance wielding as one we have not seen yet, meaning it will be new.

[Kinsey]

On the other hand, Rebecca does see a lot of herself in Violet because of the EDS representation.

[Hannah]

So I could very well see, like, if I'm writing a book, I'm going to write the character to have the powers I would want to have. But the something you haven't seen yet is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence. And I feel like if she thought it was so obvious that we would have picked it up, which is something she has said consistently in all of these interviews. Really? I don't think she would have worded it like that. I personally think it's Garak, but I'll save that for Theories episode.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah. Hmm.

[Hannah]

Something to chew on for me. I take that as debunks. All right, this last one, huge disclaimer here that this is the only hint, the only bit of information in this episode that we cannot find confirmation for to save our lives. But we all collectively recall Rebecca saying it in some interview that Violet realizes her second signet in the second half of Onyx Storm. But we cannot confirm that because I cannot find the interview. So please, if you come across this interview in a clip anywhere, even where it's written and we can just find confirmation, please send it to us because we have spent countless hours searching for it. But just to have a little chit chat about that, I think that that huge aha moment that Rebecca said she didn't give us an iron flame because she thought it would be obvious and didn't need an aha moment. Think she's actually going to give that to us now that we didn't pick it up through Violet realizing it. Regardless of if it's in the second half, I do think it will for sure be in book three because why would she have already set up an iron flame for her to have known her second signet? So I can confidently say we're getting confirmation of what it is and I think it's going to be through Violet realizing it herself if we don't pick it up earlier on. But for sure we'll know through Violet.

[Kinsey]

I'm so excited. I can picture myself now on release.

[Hannah]

Night just be like, yeah, oh, and guys, we are filming our reactions. I cannot wait to see each of your reactions. We're all reading it separately but filming it. I cannot wait to watch each other at certain points. I would give anything if I could go back and get my reaction to Zaden having a second sick knit and being a 10 sick and his spin and change. I would die to have had that on video. So I can't wait for Onyx Storm. So keep an eye out on socials for that one. All right, here's the juiciest, arguably the juiciest part of this episode. The specific scenes that Rebecca has hinted at that will be an Onyx Storm. Now, according to Brit in Bookland, who attended the Brisbane Writers Fest, quote, when asked for a scene hint from Onyx Storm, she said there is A really cool scene early on when everything's going to shit with Bezgaeth and it's a situation. Zaden can't even fix parentheses with his charisma. And Violet really has to come to terms with the fact she is the most powerful writer of her generation and takes charge of it, end quote.

[Carly]

Love this.

[Hannah]

For Violet, I think that's where we can also pull Reputation era right there. There you go.

[Carly]

Yep. Standing in her power.

[Hannah]

Love it. I cannot wait. And I'm so glad to hear that. That's early on.

[Carly]

Me too.

[Hannah]

All right, so these are some miscellaneous scene hints here. Someone asked about what pages of Onyx Storm Rebecca was writing while she was in Columbus, Ohio. She had posted about it on her social media the night before the Q and A. And Rebecca said, quote, I just wrote this scene where Violet's room has been searched. End quote.

[Carly]

I'm wondering if they're searching for Papa Sor and Gail's research, but also, how did they get through Zaden Swartz?

[Kinsey]

Unless Zaden's the one doing the searching.

[Hannah]

Oh, that's a twist. Oh, I just went to Leadership. But you're right. Well, that or maybe someone. Because Nadine, she had the signet ability to unweave wards, but, you know, she's dead, so.

[Kinsey]

Or is she?

[Hannah]

Or I'm pretty sure that one.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's gone.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

But maybe someone in Leadership can unweave words. Or there's, you know, a new cadet rider that manifests the ability to unweave them. But that's really interesting because I think my mind first went to, like, what are they searching for? But I think the first question was, who is searching? And my mind went to Leadership. Well, the way she says has been searched, it sounds like Violet is entering the room and just, like, sees it in array. But I guess it doesn't have to be that way. That's intriguing. Kenzie, any ideas on what they're looking for? Are you Team Papasaurus research?

[Kinsey]

I mean, it's probably the research. It could be. Maybe she still has the journals and they're trying to look into the wards more. The only other thing, because that was a secret that she had even kept from Zaden when he was visiting her. She was trying to do research on that. There's no reason for her to, like, hide the daggers, because at this point, they know what the daggers are. So I'm just trying to think, like, either the original journals or her dad's.

[Hannah]

Research or something we don't know exists yet.

[Kinsey]

Or Liam's little carving of her dragons. No, it's not going to be that.

[Hannah]

Well, it could be that if there's more to the whole burning things for Malik. Like, what if you can. I don't know. I'm not trying to go down to a rabbit hole. But there's things that could be significant about someone who's past items not being burned that Nevarian leadership would not want to allow to exist.

[Kinsey]

I mean, it's not his item, though. It's her item. It was a gift from him. That's true, but we don't need to get into that. I don't know.

[Hannah]

Now, speaking of Violet's room, in an Instagram comment on a reel about Garrick and Liam helping Zaden move the armoire into her room, Rebecca commented, quote, I legit just wrote a line referencing this scene today, end quote. But she also included a laughing emoji.

[Kinsey]

I know exactly what real that is and it's hilarious.

[Hannah]

It's by writers quadrant on Instagram.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, they just changed their thing, so it's readers quadrant now. But yeah.

[Hannah]

Oh, that's so cute. That's adorable.

[Kinsey]

Yep.

[Hannah]

All right. In Sydney, when asked what the most emotion eliciting scene is for Onyx Storm, Rebecca responded, you're not going to like it. End quote.

[Kinsey]

When do we like it? That's my question.

[Hannah]

We like all of it. Who are you kidding? I loved it's been my honor, but, like, hated the scene. I have some qualms. We'll work it out in therapy.

[Carly]

I kind of like having my heart ripped out by a book, so I'll probably like it.

[Kinsey]

It's therapeutic. Let's be real. That's why I look thrown in glass. Like.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I think I say that. But I have limits. Like, truly, I don't know how I would get through any dragon's death of our core three.

[Kinsey]

So I think you should mentally prepare, not for Onyx Storm, but for the future.

[Hannah]

Well, then I've got a couple years. It's okay. Anyway, so this scene she's referencing right here that we're not gonna like could be the same as this next hint, but could not be. Either way, it's about the last scene in London, Rebecca said, quote, I feel like I have been writing toward the very end scene of Onyx Storm probably since fourth wing, end quote. She does say a bit more about it, but it was really hard to follow, so I did not include that part. But holy shit, she's been waiting to get this out. She has been sitting on this for Almost two years. Yeah. That's terrifying.

[Kinsey]

It's gonna be so good. And I just don't know if I'm going to be happy or sad or distraught about it. Like, will it ruin my day?

[Carly]

It'll be all of them. The answer's all of the above.

[Hannah]

I'm, like, genuinely anxious about it.

[Kinsey]

I hope it's a situation where everybody else is like, you're gonna be so upset. But I end up so hyped that I don't process it. And I'm like, yay.

[Hannah]

Well, we're gonna jump right into talking about all the things before it, so maybe that will actually help because part of it is the hangover, right? Is having the book hangover after such a big unanswered question. But there's also gonna be so many Easter eggs that we get. And I think that that's what makes it bearable, or at least it has for me since finishing Iron Flame. Is the going back through the rest of it and not, like, focusing so much on the end. I think that'll help, but only for so long.

[Kinsey]

This is gonna be a really satisfying book. And regardless of how long Rebecca gives herself to recover before writing book four, I think I can sit with it for a while, hopefully. I don't regret saying this, but I genuinely think that we're just gonna be so satisfied by everything.

[Hannah]

I think so too.

[Kinsey]

Just with our episode of all the things that were mentioned in all of her interviews, like, I'm like, how is she gonna fit all of that in? There's just gonna be so much meat to the story, and it's gonna be fantastic. And I'm gonna be sad that it's over, like, at the end of Onyx Storm, but I just feel like we're gonna get so much new material that all of our theories from here on out are gonna be amazing. We're gonna have so much to work.

[Hannah]

With because we're going into a deep dive, chapters by chapters after that. So we really do get to focus on teasing them out as we go and catching it. I really think that that's gonna help, like, the hangover of it all, for sure. And then that takes a couple months to get through. Right. And then we're considering doing Iron Flame. I'm really expecting there to be revelations of behind the scenes stuff. Maybe not as badass as Zaden's second signet, but there's still gonna be things that we find out in Onyx Storm that are just going to be like, oh, my God, I have to get my hands on Iron Flames do a reread because so much of this makes so much more sense now. So we've got some things to hold us over in the meantime. And I. I think that we're also going to see such a payoff from Rebecca having time, taking that time to take care of herself to really cultivate the book she wants to put out. I really think that that is. I think it's going to be worth the wait for Onyx Storm, and I think however long she needs after that is going to be worth the wait as well. She's going to give us plenty to tide over.

[Kinsey]

Absolutely.

[Hannah]

All right, so this is about the same last scene Rebecca has said that we will all cry at the end last scene of Onyx Storm. According to Britain Bookland, who attended Brisbane Writers Fest on Instagram, she wrote these notes, quote, she being Rebecca, said the last scene of Onyx Storm was the one she was most looking forward to. She said that when we're crying and eating chocolate, we should imagine her sitting at her laptop after 48 hours of no sleep, just smiling and loving it. End quote. Sounds about Rebecca.

[Carly]

Yeah, it really does.

[Hannah]

Damn.

[Kinsey]

Fueled by reader tears.

[Hannah]

Yeah, she definitely enjoys that. I know she tries to stay away from social media, but she seems to have hinted toward being really intrigued to see people's reactions, like filming their reactions of the end scene specifically. I will.

[Kinsey]

Dude, that camera's gonna be rolling.

[Hannah]

God, I can't wait for somebody.

[Kinsey]

Is it gonna be a sad ending? Is it gonna be a revelation? Are we gonna, like, end up feeling guilty about something? Are we gonna be. They could be happy children for all we know. It could be joy, you know, that doesn't really seem. But eating chocolate.

[Hannah]

That says comfort food, that does not say happy celebratory toasting champagne, that's different than eating chocolate, you know. Anyways, so according to Reddit user Distinct Frame, who also attended Brisbane, Rebecca quote, implied the ending of Onyx Storm would be divisive. End quote. Please note that the word implied here is doing a lot of heavy lifting. So take this quote with a grain of salt because the user said that they suspect she means empowering for Violet, but the morals are questionable. End quote. That is what the fan, the attendee got from what Rebecca Yara said. But sometimes things are subjective.

[Carly]

I feel like a broken record. But it just goes back to, you know, her saying she wrote so much of the second half of Onyx Storm to who's afraid of little old me?

[Hannah]

She's like, you want to see a monster? I'll show you one. You should be.

[Kinsey]

Well, is it divisive towards the characters or is it divisive amongst the fandom with our reactions and how we feel about them?

[Hannah]

That's what's hard about this whole implied. Because it's not even certain that Rebecca used the word divisive.

[Kinsey]

Oh, okay.

[Hannah]

Because the user said that Rebecca implied that the ending would be divisive. So that could have literally been like, Rebecca goes, I'm not really sure how you guys are gonna feel about it. And then this person thought she was saying divisive. Or it could have been like, yeah, the characters aren't too happy with each other at the end. That could also be divisive. So there's a lot that we can't really rely on here to break down. But I thought it was worth mentioning because regardless, I think it just emphasizes how heavy hitting this last scene or cliffhanger in the end of the book is just. It's gonna be rough, guys.

[Kinsey]

I wanna know if her husband or her editor cried, because they have all said. At least from what I've seen her posting on her social media, I feel like they've all said that that's their favorite book. So I'm like, did they cry too? Like, what were their reactions at the end?

[Hannah]

You know, I didn't come across that. But I've also heard that she. Because of course, I haven't seen every comment. Right. So I have heard that, though, and I do wonder. I definitely remember seeing her posting that her husband was reading it and that he was loving it. So, yeah, I saw that story, but I didn't snag it.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So, all right. I'm really ending this whole thing off on such a positive note, guys. So let's talk about Rebecca murdering our favorite characters in Sydney. Rebecca said that she has, quote, already deviated from who I thought would pass in that book, end quote referring to Onyx Storm. The crowd gasped and Rebecca said, how do you know I'm not, like, talking about Jack or something? Not that I am. End quote.

[Kinsey]

That could also be her saving somebody, by the way.

[Hannah]

That is. That is her saving someone. Yeah, right. I'm probably fucking.

[Carly]

But I think it means that someone else died in this book than she expected to, but it just means that someone else.

[Hannah]

Hopefully it's in our favor. Like, if it was Ri before and now, I don't even know who I'd replace that. But, like, Cat, I don't think we're losing Kat. I don't think we. Maybe she makes us fall in love with her and then we lose her.

[Carly]

It's fine.

[Hannah]

It's gotta be someone we really care about. But if we want to know how they're gonna die. According to Britann Bookland, who again attended Brisbane, Rebecca said, quote, every time we see a battle, someone will die. End quote.

[Kinsey]

The Venin.

[Hannah]

Perfect.

[Kinsey]

We're good.

[Hannah]

Not confident in that one, though. So to end this off, who do we think is dying in Onyx Storm? If you had to pick a character, who do you think versus who do you absolutely not want to?

[Carly]

I think my answer is the same.

[Kinsey]

My list of characters that are safe is much shorter than the list of characters I feel like will die. Yeah, from Violet Squad, Ri and Riddick are, like, the most at risk. I want to say. I feel like after our Imogen episode, I used to think she would die for sure in Onyx Storm, but after our Imogen episode, I do think you guys had a good point, that that would be a waste of her signet, and more likely we'll be seeing more of it. I also do think that one of Violet's dragons will die, but I'd like to think that that won't happen until books 4 or 5.

[Hannah]

I am praying to the gods.

[Kinsey]

I'm confident that Taryn will die. Like, I. I'm mentally prepared. It's not gonna happen in the storm, but it will happen. And it made a lot of people upset with me when I had posted about it, but I'm like, I made.

[Hannah]

A meme about you. Good about us fighting at the dinner table. Every time you mention the dare, I.

[Kinsey]

Think Violet and Zayden then would all survive. But.

[Hannah]

I pray I'm taking it as a given that I don't want Zayden or the three dragons to die. I don't want them touch Rebecca. But so let me be very fucking clear. Not 4 and 5, but out of the humans, the person I don't want to die the most is Ri. She can have Dain. She can have Mira. She can have Brennan. Take all three of them. Please don't touch Rhy. I really don't want to touch Riddick. I don't think I have a fighting chance on that one. If Garak killed Papa, Sor and Gail, take him too. You know, like.

[Kinsey]

Let'S hear it, Carly.

[Carly]

So she has said in interviews before that Liam didn't have any more growing to do, and that was one of the reasons why he was done.

[Kinsey]

Bye, Ri. I love you.

[Carly]

Rhiannon's the other character that she has said is, like, the most balanced Most grounded, got her stuff together, has her priorities right. She kind of describes RI like she described Liam. So while it's also the least character. I want to go in Onyx Storm, I think it might be ri, and I think that might be one of the things that's the catalyst for Violet, because we know she's going to have to go into some form of female rage, and that is usually fueled by grief. And I. I think it might be RI that we lose. If not ri, I think there's actually a good chance it'll be Dane.

[Kinsey]

I do think.

[Hannah]

Oh, please take him.

[Kinsey]

No, no, look, everyone's gonna be eating their words because he is going to have the most valiant sacrifice, and everyone's gonna feel so guilty.

[Hannah]

I'll eat my words.

[Kinsey]

I think that he's already partially redeemed himself through their friendship.

[Hannah]

Partially, Yeah, I agree with that.

[Kinsey]

Because he was manipulated his entire life. He didn't have all the information. Once he did have all the information, he made all the right choice. So I just feel like it'll get to a point where they're really, really good friends again, and she finally feels like she can trust him, and then he's gone, and everyone's gonna feel so bad. Like, I can't believe we would say all these horrible things about him. And I don't know. I feel like.

[Hannah]

No, I believe you.

[Kinsey]

It's gonna be his end. Redemption, I think.

[Hannah]

Oh, shit.

[Kinsey]

I don't think Brennan would die because he was already dead. He had already been killed. Which only leaves Meera, but she also just killed her mom, so maybe her family is safe.

[Hannah]

I don't think her family is safe. I will say, I think you're entirely right about Dane because Rebecca rides hard for Dane, and she knows that the majority of the fandom. I might be overspeaking. At least half of the fandom is not on Team Dane yet. Like, we're getting there, but it's not there yet. And I think she knows how much work she had to do. Like, she read the room, and I think she is dedicated to making us fall for him. And then I think as punishment, she's gonna rip him from our arms.

[Carly]

Yep.

[Hannah]

That sounds about rebellious.

[Kinsey]

It's definitely gonna happen. Yeah, it'll be sad.

[Carly]

I just don't know if they're. Which one's gonna happen first. But I think that that's. Yeah, I agree, though. I definitely think that Dain is going to have a serious redemption arc and that he will sacrifice himself and that it's going to be very tragic.

[Kinsey]

So delete your negative comments now.

[Hannah]

No, I still stand by because you can have him. Because even if I fall in love with him, I still think I've already fallen deeper in love with other characters that I would rather exchange. But I might eat my words. I'm leaving room for that. I don't want to hate Dane. Sometimes it's fun.

[Kinsey]

But yeah, in the first book it makes more sense. So every time I reread Fourth Wing, I'm like yeah. And then I reread Iron Flame, I'm like, no, I like him.

[Hannah]

Yeah, he's almost there for me. He's almost there.

[Carly]

And that wraps up our deep dive on what Rebecca Yarros has revealed about Onyx Storm. Thank you so much for listening and don't forget to check out our PDF of quotes and citations for everything we discussed for today over on our Patreon.

[Kinsey]

If you are here for Onyx Storm Prep content and want more, we have already released bonus episodes Breaking down the Onyx Storm Blur, the Onyx Storm Back Jacket excerpt, the Onyx Storm sneak peek released in the Cosmo Magazine, our Onyx Storm Deep Dive on Imogen, our recap on 4th Wing, and our recap on Iron Flame.

[Hannah]

It's a lot.

[Carly]

It's a lot and we aren't stopping there. You can expect episodes on Theories and then we will be doing an initial reactions episode after we read it before taking flight into our season three on Chapters by Chapter Style Deep Dive of.

[Hannah]

Onyx Storm if you haven't already, check out our first season Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive on Fourth Wing through the lens of Iron Flame. There are over 30 hours worth of binge worthy content to explore, including summaries, theories, easter eggs, foreshadowing, signet speculation, fangirling and more. Beware those episodes do have Iron Flame spoilers and they have timestamps in the show notes in every episode just like this one. If you would like to jump around.

[Kinsey]

As always, we encourage you to email us all of your thoughts, theories and suggestions. Drop them below if you are watching on YouTube or join us over on our Discord. Don't forget to follow us on our.

[Hannah]

Socials until next time. Dearest fantasy readers, Prepare yourselves for Onyx Storm Theories as we continue our journey through the Empyrean series.

[Carly]

We did it.

[Kinsey]

Most anticipated episode.

[Hannah]

I cannot wait to talk about Theories.

[Kinsey]

It's going to be like 5 hours long.

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