Ep 6 Onyx Storm: Breaking Down Top Theories & Predictions PART 1

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: Dear Fantasy Reader – Ep 6: Onyx Storm: Breaking Down Theories & Predictions PART 1

Introduction

In Episode 6 of Dear Fantasy Reader, titled "Onyx Storm: Breaking Down Theories & Predictions PART 1," hosts Hannah, Karly, and Kinsey delve deep into the intricate world of Rebecca Yarros’ Empyrean series. With their characteristic blend of meticulous analysis and passionate discussion, the trio explores a multitude of theories surrounding the upcoming installment, "Onyx Storm." Released on January 10, 2025, this episode serves as a comprehensive primer for fans eagerly anticipating the next chapter in the saga.

1. Character Survival and Development Theories

• Sawyer’s Fate and Potential Survival ([02:14] Hannah & [02:50] Kinsey)

  The discussion begins with Sawyer, a character who suffered the loss of his leg in "Iron Flame." Kinsey posits, "I think he will use his signet power to control a bionic leg. This means he will be able to stay within the writer's quadrant. Also, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that he will survive until the very end of the series" ([02:50] Kinsey). Hannah adds, "I think it's absolutely not a coincidence that he has that ability that would potentially allow him to ride a dragon again" ([04:09] Hannah), suggesting that Sawyer’s metallurgist skills and signet abilities are key to his continued presence in the series.

• Dane’s Redemption Arc and Signet Implications ([05:15] Kinsey & [08:07] Kinsey)

  The conversation shifts to Dane, a character who has been met with mixed feelings from the fandom. Kinsey theorizes a "full circle redemption arc" for Dane, potentially culminating in his sacrifice to complete his redemption ([05:15] Kinsey). Hannah reflects on Dane’s complexities, stating, "I have to say, I love this theory. I was heartbroken for Sawyer at the end of Iron Flame and this, as much as I know, will be really difficult for his character and development" ([04:09] Hannah). The hosts explore the dark side of Dane’s signet, considering whether his abilities inadvertently harm others' souls through memory manipulation ([08:07] Kinsey).

• Jinia’s Mysterious Motives ([13:37] Carly)

  Jinia, another pivotal character, is scrutinized for her suspicious actions. Carly expresses distrust, highlighting numerous "weird coincidences" surrounding Jinia’s interactions with other characters, particularly Violet ([15:17] Carly). The hosts debate whether Jinia’s actions are genuinely deceitful or part of a larger, more benevolent agenda, citing her connection to the scribe quadrant and her role in critical plot events.

2. Brennan and Naolin: A Possible Romantic Connection ([24:59] Kinsey & [25:38] Carly)

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Brennan and Naolin, where the hosts explore the potential romantic relationship between these two characters. Carly firmly believes they are "more than just squad mates or friends" and cites Rebecca Yarros’ hints during interviews to support her theory ([24:59] Carly). Kinsey echoes this sentiment, adding, "the entire fandom agrees that they're lovers, and it might not be as heartbreaking as you think" ([25:38] Kinsey). The discussion also touches on the tragic possibility of Naolin turning Venon and the implications of his potential death on Brennan’s fate.

3. Jack’s Complex Arc: Redemption or Immortality? ([46:00] Carly & [62:19] Hannah)

Jack emerges as a character shrouded in mystery and complexity. The hosts debate whether Jack will undergo a "redemption arc" or possess an element of "immortality." Carly suggests, "A friend on Bookstagram is absolutely convinced that Jack will get a redemption arc" ([62:19] Carly), while also entertaining the notion that Jack might never die, referencing his potential for eternal presence in the series ([62:19] Kinsey). Hannah remains skeptical, hoping for a character with pure intentions akin to Liam, yet acknowledging Rebecca Yarros’ penchant for crafting morally gray characters.

4. Papa Sorengale’s Research and Assassination ([68:07] Carly, [75:05] Kinsey)

The hosts delve into the enigmatic figure of Papa Sorengale, Violet’s father, discussing his extensive research into feathertails and wards. Carly theorizes that Papa Sorengale’s initial goal was to find a cure for Violet’s physical ailments, which led him to feather tales and, ultimately, to uncover deeper, more dangerous secrets about the magic system ([68:07] Carly). Kinsey adds layers to this theory by contemplating Papa Sorengale’s potential discovery of ancient prophecies or historical texts that set the stage for the current conflicts ([75:05] Kinsey). The conversation suggests that his pioneering research may have led to his assassination, orchestrated by factions threatened by his uncovering of forbidden knowledge.

5. Dragons: Symbols of Corruption and Power ([77:23] Kinsey & [84:07] Carly)

Dragons in the Empyrean series are more than majestic creatures; they serve as indicators of underlying corruption. Kinsey notes that dragons with bad breath, such as Solas, Bade, and Cath, symbolize their corruption and possible transformation into Venon ([77:23] Kinsey). The hosts discuss the implications of these transformations, linking them to the broader narrative of power and its consequences within the series. Carly expands on the significance of dragon breeds and their alignment with the magic system, pondering how these dragons influence the unfolding events and character motivations.

6. The Magic System: Signets, Runes, Venon, and Venin ([30:09] Hannah & [46:00] Carly)

A critical component of the discussion revolves around the intricate magic system in the Empyrean series. The hosts dissect the roles of signets and runes, theorizing about their functions and limitations. Hannah speculates on the potential of runes to enhance lesser magics or serve as alternatives to signets, considering Carly’s idea that runes might act as "the great equalizer" in the magical hierarchy ([50:42] Hannah). Kinsey introduces the possibility that runes could prevent overuse of power, thereby balancing the magic system and maintaining equilibrium within the world ([30:09] Kinsey). The interplay between these magical elements is seen as pivotal in shaping character abilities and plot developments.

7. Prophecies, Historical Texts, and Future Implications ([75:15] Kinsey & [83:22] Kinsey)

The episode touches on the presence of ancient prophecies and historical texts that influence current events. Kinsey highlights a passage suggesting that Venon may have roots in prophetic lore, hinting at a cyclical nature of events and the role of the dragons in perpetuating these cycles ([75:15] Kinsey). The discussion explores how characters like Papa Sorengale may have foreseen or inadvertently fueled the rise of Venon through their research, setting the stage for the impending conflicts in "Onyx Storm."

Conclusion and Upcoming Content

As the episode wraps up, the hosts acknowledge the extensive scope of their discussion, announcing that this is just the beginning of a multi-part series dedicated to unraveling the complex theories and predictions for "Onyx Storm." They tease upcoming episodes that will continue to dissect character motivations, plot twists, and the evolving magic system. The trio encourages listeners to engage with their content, participate in discussions, and share their own theories through various platforms, including Discord.

Notable Quotes

• Kinsey on Sawyer’s Survival: "I think he will use his signet power to control a bionic leg. This means he will be able to stay within the writer's quadrant. Also, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that he will survive until the very end of the series." ([02:50])

• Hannah on Sawyer’s Abilities: "I think it's absolutely not a coincidence that he has that ability that would potentially allow him to ride a dragon again." ([04:09])

• Carly on Brennan and Naolin’s Relationship: "I think that they were more than just squad mates or friends. I think that there was love there." ([25:47])

• Kinsey on Jinia’s Motives: "I just think there's too much foreshadowing and too many weird coincidences, and I don't trust her." ([16:34])

• Hannah on Papa Sorengale’s Research: "I think that his research started out as an effort to find something that could heal Violet because he realized she wanted to be a writer and he did not think that would be a real option for her safely without finding a Solution for her ligaments and joints." ([68:49])

• Kinsey on Dragons’ Corruption: "They have been called out as having bad breath, rotten breath, and iron flame, which I think is a sign that they are corrupt. Turning wyvern and or their writers are Venon." ([77:23])

Final Thoughts

Episode 6 of Dear Fantasy Reader offers a treasure trove of theories and predictions for fans of the Empyrean series. The hosts’ dynamic discussions provide deep insights into character arcs, magical lore, and the intricate web of relationships that define the series. As Rebecca Yarros continues to weave her expansive fantasy narrative, listeners are left eagerly anticipating the unraveling of these theories in the forthcoming parts of the series.

Stay Tuned

Don’t miss out on the continuation of these theories in upcoming episodes, where Hannah, Karly, and Kinsey will further explore the mysteries of "Onyx Storm," ensuring that fans remain thoroughly engaged and excited for what lies ahead in the Empyrean series.

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Subscribe now to Dear Fantasy Reader for comprehensive analyses, wild theories, and fangirl moments that celebrate the depth and richness of your favorite Romantasy novels. New episodes every Tuesday!

Transcript

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[Hannah]

I'm so excited.

[Kinsey]

This one's going to be my favorite.

[Hannah]

Same I've been dying since I read these books to have these exact conversations.

[Carly]

I feel like this is what I've been training for my whole life.

[Hannah]

Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Pod podcast where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels, exploring characters, scenes, theories, foreshadowing and more. I'm Hannah.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey.

[Carly]

And I'm Carly.

[Kinsey]

Join us as we take flight into the world of the Empyrean series where we are currently in our Onyx Storm Prep era.

[Carly]

With that content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everything Empyrean series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarros has given us. So if you haven't read both already, save this podcast. Go do that and we will be here waiting for you when you are done.

[Kinsey]

Also, due to the nature of these books, this podcast is rated R in content and in language.

[Hannah]

As Rebecca Yarros says readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please take note and prepare to enter Baz Gaieth War College. Guys, we have made it to our most anticipated episode yet. Onyx Storm Theories Part one, where we are covering the following Sawyer, Dane, Jinia, Brennan, Naolin, Jack, Papasaurengail and Dragons.

[Kinsey]

I can't wait. All right, we are going to start off with Sawyer. If you guys remember, at the ending of Iron Flame, he had actually lost his leg. I think that Rebecca Yaros had this plan from the beginning because if you remember, he's a metallurgist, which means he can control and manipulate metals. So I think he will use his signet power to control a bionic leg. This means he will be able to stay within the writer's quadrant. Also, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that he will survive until the very end of the series.

[Hannah]

I don't think Rebecca would discriminate in who she kills.

[Kinsey]

It's true. But I do also think that Jenya's like pretty much guaranteed to survive because she's writing the history of everything going on and she's setting it up for them to be a couple. So I'm like, one couple will survive and it's probably going to be them maybe.

[Hannah]

Unless hopefully. Unless Rebecca's just like, nope, you don't get Liam or Sawyer. That would be cruel. But I hope you're right. I have to say I love this theory. I was heartbroken for Sawyer at the end of Iron Flame and this as much as I know, will be really difficult for his character and development. I think you're exactly right. It is absolutely not a coincidence that he has that ability that would potentially allow him to ride a dragon again.

[Carly]

I just think that it's going to be a really interesting arc for him to see him deal with such a life changing event. And I'm excited to see how Rebecca Yarros handles it.

[Hannah]

Do we think that it would be something that would happen in Onyx Storm or do you think that they're not going to think of this until later?

[Kinsey]

I think it's going to happen right away in Onyx Storm because at least from the excerpt that she had released with the Cosmo magazine, it seems to have picked up immediately where it took off. So I don't know. They're going to find a way to make sure that he can remain within the quadrant. And I feel like, I mean, he's not gonna forget that he has a signet power to control metal. So I'm hoping they're gonna create some kind of a prosthetic leg made out of metal for him.

[Hannah]

I can imagine them being inspired by Violet's saddle as an accommodation for her to still be able to ride. Cause I don't know, at this point, I don't know how medically advanced this world is. So maybe he's actually the first person who will have invented the idea of this in this world, and he might come up with it on his own while he's tinkering with metal.

[Kinsey]

We'll see.

[Hannah]

That's exciting. It's cool.

[Kinsey]

Only a few more weeks.

[Carly]

I could see Felix being the one that helps him figure out how to make one because he seems to be the person who makes things.

[Hannah]

Oh, I love that.

[Kinsey]

Next topic, Dane. So I know he's not everybody's favorite, but I do think that we will see a full circle redemption arc for him in this book. Rebecca had already set it up in Iron Flame, and I think that he might actually sacrifice himself at the end to complete the cycle. And then everyone's gonna feel super guilty and we're all gonna feel really bad about hating on him. But I do think that they will become friends again, and hopefully we're gonna actually see that on page instead of just taking their word for it. But I do think he's gonna get a full redemption arc. And this was interesting. I just ran into this during my reread, but I wonder if his signet hurts people's souls. Because Verish had mentioned during the interrogation scene in Iron Flame that Dain was running out of civilians for Noland to mend and practice his signet on. So either Dain was unknowingly practicing on Venon because they have issues with their souls already, or stealing too much of a person's memories, or, like, diving into their memories because he's not really stealing them, could damage their soul if he goes too far. So maybe he inadvertently had created Venon and damaged people's souls by going too far and using his technique. It was just really weird and something I just barely had caught literally the other day. But I was like, what?

[Hannah]

I had thoughts about the redemption arc. I was ready to jump right into, but this just threw me for a loop. I wonder what the implications for, because you're right. He can read them, but he's not doing what Imogen is doing to step beyond actually taking them from someone that's suspicious. It's also interesting because, again, Rebecca always says that no two signets are alike. So, like, the same parameters for one you can apply across the board to another or similar one, but those are so similar. And because Imogen can do so much more than him, I would actually think it'd be the opposite. I would think that Imogen would be the one harming by, like, basically, like chopping parts of someone's brain, but just to sift through them, I imagine is violating. But I am really curious. Unless Dain actually has a more advanced signet than he even realizes. I think something that we have learned through this series so far is a lot of the signets that we know of and understand are limited to that character's understanding. They're limited to Violet's understanding. Same with how Xaden thinks he can read Intentions, but he actually just doesn't understand it and might be able to read more. That tells me that Danes could be a more advanced and dangerous signet than just reading them.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. And we do have to remember that this was training with Varysh and he is a horrible human being. So I don't really think that Dain's necessarily at fault here. 100%.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

No, I don't think I'm not. I'm not picking up on that vibe. Yeah, I'm picking up on that. Doesn't make a ton of sense for what we understand his signet to be.

[Kinsey]

So it's scary. And we might see it advance a lot more in Onyx Storm.

[Carly]

I think I read this just as that he was somehow damaging their mind. I'm not married to that idea, but I just. That's how I originally read it. So it'll be interesting to see if it's more than that. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Maybe it's just the nature of having someone so forcefully enter into memories because it is violating for an intensive. And they would have to pass over someone's quote unquote shields, even if they're not a rider. But Dane is able to go back through someone's whole life, essentially. Like, we don't know. We don't know the limitations of how far back he can go. Maybe that does come with a price. But it's interesting that the person pays it and not Dane. I do want to touch on his redemption arc.

[Kinsey]

Okay.

[Hannah]

I will be the first one to say I could not stand him in Fourth Wing. I really had a hard time even on a second reread of Iron Flame, really empathizing with him, even though, you know, it's been explained why he did the whole memory stealing thing. That's not why I'm upset with him. I'm upset with his characters. His starting place as a character before the development we see in Iron Flame that I just don't think has been fully addressed. And I do agree. I think we're going to get a redemption arc from him. And I am at the point in my current Iron Flame reread that I have a little bit more grace for Dane. I want the redemption arc to be fulfilled completely, and I think I would actually be able to see him the way that Rebecca wants us to see him. And I think that you're right that we're going to get that redemption arc because of how adamant of a Dana Paul. Just she says she is, and she can tell how the fandom has been responding to him. Even after the work she put in to make us like him in Iron Flame, I think she's going to really drive it home and be like, oh, y'all still don't like him. I'm going to make you fucking love him, and then I'm going to rip your hearts out, and you are going to regret ever having a negative thing to say about him. And I'll be the first to say I hope that happens. As someone who has not been a Dane fan, I agree.

[Carly]

I think we're going to get a really heartbreaking redemption arc for Dane. I don't know that's necessarily going to be in the next book, but I do think we're going to get a very heartbreaking redemption arc for Dane, and I think part of that is going to be learning to understand him a little better, and I think that will be maybe understanding some of his backstory more because his mom is never mentioned, and I think his mom was likely a tragic loss that maybe he blames himself for, and that's why he was so protective of Violet. I think we're going to get to understand him a little bit better. And I. I agree, though, it's going to be heartbreaking.

[Hannah]

I could see the backstory being a big part of Onyx Storm, giving us time to really stew and reflect until the next book. And either in book four or five is when we get a tragic Dane loss. Yeah.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

She's got to give us time to love him. I can't be Onyx Storm that we lose him or she's gonna. She's not gonna catch everyone in the heartbreak.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Cause initially, he did start with good intentions, but just like everybody else, he annoyed me to no end. And fourth wing, like, he. He took wanting to protect her, and instead of actually helping to train her to make sure she survives, he just wanted to, like, send her off, send her away. And, Kylie, you're right. Maybe it could be related to whatever had happened to his mother. But we also have to remember who his father is. And he definitely has been manipulated, I think, throughout his life. And what matters to me is that once you see the light, see the truth, it's the actions that you decide to make after knowing that. And he did make the right decision. So the moment that he saw into Violet's mind, he rescued her, he joined the revolution. He did everything that he needed to do to help Violet and everybody else. So I think that's what really matters. He started with good intentions, messed up a lot in the middle. Once he realized what he did wrong, he did make adjustments, but he still has to, like, make a full apology, so.

[Hannah]

Exactly. For me, that's why he has a chance at redemption. Iron Flame, for me, redeemed the memory stealing. He is a product of propaganda as well. What fell a little flat for me was that the initial part of him that annoyed me, before we ever found out about the memory stealing, was the way he spoke to and not necessarily treated Vi. Yeah, it's like how he treated her in the sense that he didn't know how to listen, absorb, adjust. And we see him start to do that in Iron Flame, but he always has. Carly worded this so well before that we just need an apology without a but for that part. And that is. I think it's not going to be difficult, but I will say, I think it's going to be not overkill, but a very powerful push on Rebecca's part to make us love him. Yeah.

[Carly]

Yeah, I totally agree. Are we ready to talk about the person I'm most suspicious of?

[Hannah]

I'm scared for this section.

[Carly]

I am scared. I'm excited for this because I. I love to make people mad with this one. So we'll see. The next person we're talking about is Justinia, because she is shady, and I don't trust her. I don't know what her goals are, but I don't fully trust her. There is too many weird coincidences with Jinia. So she goes and meets Violet after her and Imogen come back from a run, she goes and looks for her, and she needs to talk to her because she allegedly needs help translating this old journal. That's an old luceresh. And so Violet helps her translate it, which delays Violet so that her and Jinia see this cadet getting carted off. And that's when Justinia tells her, oh, he came in looking for a report that doesn't exist. And he got really upset. I wonder if it's about that. But here's the thing. Jinia speaks Old Luceresh. She is the one that helps translate Warwick's journal in Iron Flame, which is in Old Luceresh. Violet uses her to double check her translation. And so I'm like, why was she making up this excuse to get help from Violet if she speaks Old Luceresh? And then it's just this very convenient delay. So she's there when this cadet's getting carted off. And then there's this piece of foreshadowing for Imogen in that scene where she doesn't want to leave Violet alone with Jinia. And she's like, jinia's not going to hurt me. And Jinnia's like, I wouldn't even know how. And Imogen tells her Violet knew how to kill just fine on a scribe's education. And I think that's some foreshadowing for what Jessenia is capable of. I'm sorry.

[Hannah]

Oh, shit.

[Carly]

I love watching your face as I walk you through these. It's my favorite part.

[Hannah]

I really enjoy when I haven't read your notes on certain things, but, boy, do they just cut deep. Continue, please.

[Carly]

And then the other thing is, is that in fourth wing, she's the one who gives Violet the scroll to take to Battle Brave. That should have been marked classified, but conveniently wasn't. And then Violet reads it when it falls off the cart because it's not marked classified. So she, like, goes to scroll it up and reads it, and then they take it to Battle Brief. And it turns out it was classified information. It's not being reported in Battle Brief. And I'm like, why did she give her that scroll if she wasn't supposed to have it? Why wasn't it marked classified? I just think there's too, like, too many coincidences with Jidia. And then there's the whole part with Pilate's dad. There's some foreshadowing there where he's like, Violet, you need to do more than, like, just look at the sources. You need to look at who is telling the story. You need to be careful of that. And who's telling the story. It's Jinia. So I just think there's too much foreshadowing and too many weird coincidences, and I don't trust her.

[Hannah]

Okay, can I go back to your. Because I'm getting mixed signals. Some of them I feel like, yes, confirms that she would be, like, working against Violet. But the last one confirmed felt like it was for Violet. So the first one, you're. If I'm understanding correctly, you are saying that you think she intentionally went to Violet and had her witness, essentially the kid, get taken away for requesting these books as a warning. Like, what the. What's the motivation behind that, you think?

[Carly]

Well, I'm wondering if she wanted Violet to think that she is starting to realize there's something weird going on.

[Hannah]

Okay. Yeah.

[Carly]

Like she's trying to get brought in to what she suspects. Violet already knows. But again, I'm not really sure what Cecinia's goals are. There's just too many coincidences. It's weird.

[Hannah]

So I could actually. I'm wondering, looking at all of those examples, if it could be chalked up to cause. I think you're right. There are suspicious. I'm wondering if it was actually opposite. I think these actually, for me, support that Jinia knew something was wrong, wanted Violet to know, but couldn't directly tell her, so she started dropping clues. And I couldn't see her wanting Violet to know unless it was to help. Because if she was a bad guy, suspicious in a negative light, wouldn't she be doing opposite of all these things?

[Carly]

Well, that's the thing though, is I just don't know what her goals are. Like, I'm not saying. Like, I'm not saying her and Violet maybe don't have similar goals, but I don't trust her to not use Violet to get what she wants.

[Hannah]

She has her own.

[Carly]

I think she has her own agenda.

[Hannah]

Short term, helping Violet aligns. But you're thinking long term. Yeah, I really like this. I think that the implications of her being shady, though, could be difficult and messy. Not in the messy way I normally like, because I think it just gets really finicky with the fact that she wrote our books. So Rebecca is trying to send us messages with this series that, yes, the historians are manipulating history, question everything. But for then she has that in layers of. All right, question Nevarian history that I'm giving you, question what Violet's being told from both sides, but then to also question the whole book just. I feel like that almost makes it too complex for anyone to be able to accessibly understand. And she did say she wanted to write an accessible fantasy book. I don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking that, but I think.

[Kinsey]

That she knew what was going on, but couldn't outright tell Violet, so she had to give her those warnings because. Just hoping that the scroll would fall off the cart. And that happens to be the only scroll that she looks at, and it's not marked as classified. But also, you have to remember, too, that Violet had directly said wyvern. It's spelled W, Y, V, E, R, N. And, like, she told her about the fables of the Baron. And so if Jesenia was wanting to harm her, I feel like she could have also used that opportunity as an excuse to turn her in. Even just looking into research for the wards, because Jesenia knew that she was lying about a project. My thing with her is I'm inclined to trust her simply because Zaden did go with Violet to meet up with Jesenia, and he had made a sly comment like, oh, I'm really good at reading people. Because she's like, what? You're gonna, like, look at her and know that she's honest. So I usually use Zaden as a gauge all the time for, like, morality.

[Hannah]

Just keep in mind when he would have had his shields in place to where he can't know someone's intentions. Just keep that in mind as you think about. Cause I agree. But Rebecca put a huge limitation on him, which is often, I think, how she's gonna get around making bad guys come to light and be like, oh, my God, how do we not know? Well, or how did Zaden not know? I should say.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. So I'm inclined to trust her because Zaden went specifically to read her, and I feel like he would have been like, hey, your friend is really bad. And I don't think he would have also allowed her to come with them to Orisha if that were the case.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Well, okay. So that reminds me of the fact that Violet points out multiple times how the Council or any of the revolution, they don't have any scribes. And she wonders why that is. And I actually think that's connected to the fact that the scribes have been infiltrated by Venin, which is made clear toward the end of Iron Flame with what Jack is saying and in the excerpts that we've gotten. Right. But I also. On the topic of trusting Jesenia, that leads perfectly into my next point. At Emerald City Comic Con, Rebecca was asked in a Q and A if she would ever write a Navarrean history book. After she mentioned she was a history major, like a novella, Rebecca responded, saying, quote, would you guys trust it to be truthful? I wouldn't. And someone in the audience shouted, if Jessenia wrote it. Rebecca laughed and suspiciously covered her mouth. She did not directly respond to that person. She just went on to say, quote, if I were to write a Nevarian history book, it would be written by someone Tearish. I would never trust a scribe to write that. End quote.

[Carly]

Ooh.

[Hannah]

So, Carly, unfortunately, you could be onto something.

[Carly]

And I'll point out that Jinia has ties to the scribe quadrant because she's not the first Neil Wartime we hear about in the scribe quadrant. There are other Neil warts. So I don't know exactly what her angle is. I just don't trust her. There's just too many coincidences.

[Hannah]

Isn't that the Chapter 1 epigraph in iron Flame is from Cecilia Neilwort?

[Carly]

I think so.

[Hannah]

That seems intentional. The first epigraph in the book, I.

[Carly]

Think it's about the fact that Arisha was burned by Dragonfire. I think it's a notice about that.

[Hannah]

So that was recent, which means, like, immediate family almost.

[Carly]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Hannah]

Shit.

[Carly]

I'm just saying I don't trust her. I don't know what her end goals are. Maybe they have similar end goals, so it'll be okay. But I think she has her own motivations, and I think she's willing to do what she needs to do to get there.

[Hannah]

The thing is, I want a character, and this is not Rebecca's M.O. so I don't have a ton of hope in this, but I want a character I can feel like a thousand percent confident is just pure. I want a Liam dude.

[Carly]

Re. Re.

[Hannah]

That's what I'm fucking terrified of. Ri has been that for me. She also is discerning. She has a little more edge than Liam did, I think. And I think it's the perfect balance. She's a badass. She is. Do we have a section on her? Because if not, I'm making one right this second. I fucking love her. And that terrifies me because Rebecca said she wrote. First of all, this is maybe a little different, but she said she wrote Liam knowing that he was gonna die and that she was writing him as the perfect character, and she killed him off because he had no room for growth. We've talked about this before, Carly. I was just hoping that it would be Jessinia, because we know she lives like. I want a good. I want a guiding light that I know is gonna be at the end of the tunnel, despite all of the other heartbreak I know we're in for, I think is the best way I could put it.

[Carly]

I understand what you're saying. I do getcha. And I will say I also love Ri. I adore her. If I was gonna pick a best friend out of this series, it Would be her. She's the best.

[Hannah]

Or Andarna, but, yeah, what a trio. That could be Brennan and Naolin. Okay, big topic at this point. I do not think that this is, like, a groundbreaking theory, but it's one that I am just absolutely convinced of. Brennan and Naolin were, no doubt in my mind, lovers. Rebecca has hinted toward this both in the book. In Iron Flame, when. When Brennan is first telling Violet about Naolin, she wonders if there's something more there. I think that was intentional. I already suspected that was suspicious when you first read it. So I was like, all right. Locked in. That's. They call it headcanon. I think that's. Yeah, that's what that is.

[Kinsey]

It's canon in my head.

[Hannah]

In my head, yes. But at the National Book Festival, when asked, did Brennan and Naolin have a relationship? Granted, they don't say platonic versus romantic, but come on. Rebecca responded, quote, logically, if you were gonna push yourself to death, right, to save someone, you'd have to feel a right end quote. Guys, you can't convince me that they're not lovers, and that's really heartbreaking.

[Carly]

Yeah, no, I. I'm with you on this one. I. I think that they were more than just squad mates or friends. I. I think that there was love there.

[Hannah]

Kinsey's like, yeah, there. There is more.

[Kinsey]

I. I think the entire fandom agrees that they're lovers, and it might not be as heartbreaking as you think, because he might not be dead. I'm also convinced that Naolin had turned Venon. So he could have turned and then died. He could be Venon and just is, like, in hiding. But Rebecca keeps hinting in interviews that dragons can sever bonds. So we never really got a confirmation if he died, if the bond was severed, whatever. So we just assume it because, quote, it cost him everything to save Brennan. I think he definitely turned by siphoning his power. Maybe Taryn was cutting him off because he knew that he was about to get burnt out, and that was how Taryn almost died. But in a last attempt to really save Brennan, he had to take it straight from the source because Taryn at that point, had cut him off. So I think he turned for sure.

[Hannah]

I think it's also really suspicious how Taryn always just says, we will not talk about the one who came before. Like, the wording with Taryn is really suspicious. And I'll be honest. I've went back and forth on this, and if it weren't for the disclaimer, I'm about to Give. I think I would really buy into it. I think I would. And I do want to touch back on the whole resurrection thing in just a moment after I bring this up. But the reason that I don't buy into it is because after the whole Jack situation with Iron Flame, people began to really distrust whether anyone who was said to be dead is actually dead. And Rebecca has clarified in interviews that if she says they're dead, they're dead. I know. And so that was mostly, I believe, in reference to her dad, because a lot of people think that her dad might still be alive. And she was trying to be like, guys. Like, that's not a thing. Like. Yeah. I also want to point out, though, that she herself, in interviews, has used the words died and possibly even dead to refer to Naolin specifically, like, using that word. Even if he was Venin, I think he is dead dead now.

[Carly]

I mean, unless Rebecca considers people who turned fully Venin dead. What if it's like a zombie type situation?

[Kinsey]

Dead to me.

[Hannah]

Technically, that could make sense. If she considers Ven and who drain themselves, like, to the max and exchange all of their soul to be dead. Because at that point, without a soul, are you really alive?

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I could see her getting around it, but there's only so many times I think she could actually, like, pull the, hey, he's dead, not dead like Brennan and Jack. Like, come on, fool me once, fool me twice, a third time, get a new trick kind of thing, I think is how people would perceive it. I really would be hesitant for that. But I do want to talk very briefly on the fact that I think it's so suspicious that. Is it Professor Kaori. This was not in my notes, but I just want. It just popped in my head. Professor Kaori mentions back in Fourth Wing that Naolin died saving a writer. I can't remember the exact quote for it, but he was saying that resurrection is not possible.

[Kinsey]

He says doing so would make you a God.

[Hannah]

Yes. So regardless of if Naolin is dead or alive, either Brennan did die and Naolin did resurrect him, or Brennan was not that close to death. I think it's really suspicious that they had that line in there, though. I feel like he actually resurrected him.

[Kinsey]

I have another thought that just came in my mind too.

[Hannah]

Please.

[Kinsey]

So this was an epigraph I had read the other day, but it said that magic demands all things in balance, or it likes all things in balance, but usually the writer isn't the one to decide how that is. I'm totally butchering this Quote here. But basically, the writer doesn't decide the consequences of how the balance is chosen. So what if by resurrecting him, he basically exchanged his own life? So he had to make a deal with Malik in that instance. So it's like, I love him so.

[Hannah]

Much because Take me, not him.

[Kinsey]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Hannah]

I think that has a lot of merit because of what we've seen Violet do with the way she references this balance with Malik specifically after she saved Liam the first time. So she has this thought of she exchanged Liam's soul for Jack's, but now we know Jack didn't die, so she did not exchange that soul. And then Liam went on to die.

[Kinsey]

Because that balance was disrupted.

[Hannah]

It was disrupted, and Malik came through in the end and still took Liam. And so I think if we're. If we're really playing with the gods, kind of like having a role in that balance, I think that that could stand.

[Carly]

Well. And to be clear, I'm on the Naolin has died train. That's where I'm at with this theory. But I'll point out that Naolin's name is also the name of, like, an Aztec sun deity. And so his name also is tied to light. Violet's name is also tied to light because of ultraviolet light. They were both Terran's previous writers. His name's also tied to a deity. Carrie has that line about resurrecting somebody makes you a God. I think Naelyn died saving Brennan and has been, like, elevated to some sort of lower deity. I think he's the one that sent her Liam, not Malak.

[Hannah]

Wait, you think he's the one that did what for Liam?

[Carly]

I think Naylin is the one that sent Liam to Violet in the interrogation chamber.

[Hannah]

Shut the fuck up.

[Kinsey]

He said maybe I was sent as a kindness by Malak.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I am not convinced yet of how much of a role the gods play, because I think we have three books.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So I think this book is gonna determine the role that they play. How large of a role? But you might be onto something there.

[Kinsey]

I like it.

[Hannah]

It is interesting, though, if we think about how Liam was the soul that Violet thinks about Malik kind of going, you know, exchanging versus then he comes back and forth wing. Liam is the person that she has the most conversation with Malak over ess. And then she thinks of him as sending Liam to her later. That's so suspicious.

[Carly]

So, yeah, that's where I'm at on the nail in theory train. I think we're all in little different spots, but it's all. I love them all, though.

[Hannah]

So do you actually think he's dead, Kinsey?

[Kinsey]

I think he's dead. Now, I did have like a slight little epiphany earlier when you were talking, but it's in a later section we'll be addressing later. But with the dreams, though, I was thinking, well, if he were alive, maybe that could explain how Violet got the dreams of the Venon. Because Naolyn and Taryn have a connection. Violet has a connection to Taryn. So maybe somehow through the bond, that's how that message was able to get connected. But I do think he is dead. But I think he turned first because I think that Taryn would have died if Naolin had been successful. And he ended up having to channel straight from the source in the end. So I think he.

[Hannah]

Wait, I'm not following that last sentence. You think that.

[Kinsey]

So I think he turned Venon because if he continued to take power from Tern, Taryn would have died. He was siphoning power. So in a way to save Tern, I think he channeled directly from the source, therefore turning Venon, and completed saving Brennan and then probably made sure he was okay and whatnot. But at some point, he probably also died and, like, in order for magic to be balanced, had to sacrifice himself. But if he's alive, maybe that could explain the Venon dreams. It could getting to Violet.

[Hannah]

I really, really like how you gave some perspective on, like, what Brennan could have been thinking and choosing to turn Vennon to save Tarn.

[Carly]

Maybe that's why it was so heartbreaking for him.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Cause you don't wanna, like, he's such a powerful dragon. He nearly died. To me, that's the only thing that really makes sense 100%. But also, he bonds strongly so well.

[Hannah]

And we also. I know it. The bonding strongly is not, like, said to be like. It's hinted at as being emotionally bonded. But then you get into, like. I feel like Violet and. And Darna are more emotionally bonded technically than she and Taryn are. But one. We don't know how long Naolyn was bonded to Taryn, do we?

[Kinsey]

I don't think we know. I don't even know if we know how old Naolin was.

[Hannah]

I just. It's always fascinating to me to think about the actual interpersonal relationship between a dragon and a rider because we can see variation. Think Violet and. And Darna versus Jack and Bade. And so for me, I just kind of like, as a reader, I'm not thinking about how Taryn and Naolan interacted interpersonally what their. What their. Their actual relationship bond was like. And I think that adds such a depth and makes it, you know, just like, dig in a little bit further. Why Taryn is so heartbroken about Naolyn. Not just. Just anger for him turning Venon, but like, he did it to save him. And then. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Shut up. Wait. Also, how Naolen would have chosen his love for Brennan over his bond with Tern, which is kind of what we see with Zaden choosing his love for Violet over his bond with Sigail. Oh, no.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

All right. Circling back to Brennan on the theme that Naolin turned Vennon to save Brennan's life. At the very beginning of Iron Flame, there was only one mention in the whole book of Brennan having a rune shaped scar on his hand. Violet saw it and then he moved his hand. And that was the only mention. We got so suspicious. Very suspicious. But I think that it was given to him by Naolin as his life was saved. And what do we know about runes and Venin?

[Hannah]

So you think it's a rune? You don't think it's a scar?

[Kinsey]

I think it is a rune. Maybe he tries to cover it up and like actually got a knife and like scarred himself to make it appear more like a scar to like hide this fact. But we learned from Mira and Violet going to the cliffs to investigate these dead wyvern, they found onyx stones inside the wyvern with runes on them. So this makes me believe that Brennan might be like a human version of a wyvern. And he was basically reanimated and created by venom magic. And that is why he is marked with a rune. And if Naolin is still alive, which again, I do think that he is dead. But if he were alive and they somehow found him later, I think that Brennan's life would be tied to his in a similar way that wyvern die when their venom creator is killed. So if they end up killing. If he's alive. Yeah, if he's alive and he is killed, that would also kill Brennan, in my opinion. But I don't know. And then there's other instances where I think that Brennan might be Vennon or Wyvern version of a human. Whatever. Because in the beginning of Iron Flame, when Violet interrupts the Eretian council, she speaks directly to Brennan and electricity prickles her skin. A few pages later, when again, she's just alone with Brennan, her power rises within her. Carly, you actually had been the one to notice this, but you notice that anytime Violet is around a Venon, her powers tend to rise up Like, I don't know if it's like defense mechanism, but it just happens.

[Hannah]

We will be breaking this down at the end in Violet's theory section as well. So stay tuned.

[Kinsey]

Okay, great. Yeah, but it's just like why were her powers rising up around Brennan not once but twice? And this was after seeing the rune shaped scar on his hand. Additionally, we never see Brennan wield within the wards. We're in Orisha for most of the book. The wards did go up in Orisha, but they were failed. Something about them wasn't 100%. When they go to Basgaeth, the wards are down. That is why they are battling Venon. So he does use his signet to mend the wardstone. But after the wardstone goes up, I don't think we see him using his powers again.

[Hannah]

What does that say to you?

[Kinsey]

I don't. I mean if he's a Ven, I guess that would be mostly like using like more venom signet powers. But I don't know. And it could be totally random. It's mostly an observation. Yeah, but I just think it was very interesting that we never see him use his signet. That being said, Jack did use his signet under the wards, so it could be possible as far as we know.

[Hannah]

Do we know that?

[Kinsey]

I know. I guess we'll get to it later.

[Hannah]

Are you referencing Jack pushing the power into Violet?

[Carly]

Yeah. She said in an interview, I think that that specifically is not a signet ability.

[Hannah]

So we paused really quick. Rebecca's actually mentioned this in an interview in the Entertainment Weekly interview. I'm going to give you the exact quote so I don't mis paraphrase. In book one, when he forces power into her, it was the first hint that one that there's a weakness in the rewards that they're not spotting, that they think that they're infallible and they think they're beyond harm. And so in book one, when I laid that in, when they're on the sparring mat and he forces all that power through, it's not a signet. It's not a natural ability. Da, da, da. So there we go.

[Kinsey]

Not a signet. Not a signet. Okay, so this leads me to believe because this is like so many assumptions on assumptions on assumptions in this theory. But he is different. We do know this for a fact.

[Hannah]

If he was resurrected, you're back to talking about Brennan.

[Kinsey]

Brennan using signet and it meaning something. We don't know if he's a Venin. We don't know that. But we do know that he probably did die. As long as they're not lying to us, which they could be. But maybe because he was reanimated, he can't wield his signet like a normal rider would and he lost that ability to channel from his dragon. So why did he stay in Orisha? He says, well, I saw the truth and whatnot. But he didn't have to fake his death. They could have known he was alive. I don't know. But anyway, maybe he can't channel directly from his dragon like regular writers. And there's that epigraph in Iron Flame saying that Venon have their like natural abilities kind of like heightened. So maybe because he, he would have been one of the best menders the world would have ever seen, he actually got even stronger because he's channeling from the source and not his dragon. Specifically because of whatever actually happened with Naolin and Brennan five years ago.

[Hannah]

Maybe he's suspicious. Brennan is suspicious. And my only note that I intended to include in this section was that I trust him the least. Of all of our characters. I trust him less than Dane.

[Kinsey]

So what about less than Jack? Unless, I mean, no one trusts Jack.

[Hannah]

I trust Jack to be a bad person. Be a bad person. Jack is who he says he is at this point. Like he is unashamed. Yeah. And Brennan, he's hiding something. He's hiding something and I do not trust him to be who he says he is.

[Carly]

I get what you're saying. I trust Jack to be self serving and power hungry. Thank you.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I think that Brennan is too. We just don't see it in the exact same way.

[Kinsey]

I'm excited.

[Hannah]

I would like to add this is nothing for me to do with orange dragons because Rebecca herself has clarified that the orange dragons do not equate to a bad character. She said that in an interview. I will find it for you guys and link it in the show notes. But I wanted to throw that in because that's a lot of people will likely have that thought pop into their head.

[Carly]

I'll also point out too, just going on the whole we don't trust Brennan thing. He's also like the master tactician which I think makes him super dangerous if he's not trustworthy. So I find that really interesting.

[Hannah]

I don't know. I really had high hopes for Brennan going into Iron Flame and I really felt let down by who his character could have been. As far as like me Wanting like a solid older brother like book of Brennan embodied. And I did not get that vibe from how he was written, at least in Iron Flame. And I think it's actually set up to be like he is not the same person he was. Violet even says that at the beginning of Iron Flame he's him, but he's not. And I think that supports this whole whether or not. Now I wanted to ask you Kenzie, because we said before we move on from the section that is actually we've apparently had a ton to say about. I want to know if we've pretty much established between at least the three of us that we do not think that Naolin is alive. If it is actually a rune and not a scar and if the theory still stands and you tell me if it does or not that it is a rune, that could mean he is a wyvern type human. Who do you think if it's not Naolin is the one controlling him?

[Kinsey]

Ooh, controlling. I thought you were gonna say who's keeping him alive. And I was gonna say Taryn, technically.

[Hannah]

Well, I don't know. Do you just perceive it as that Venon who is keeping him alive or do you think he's actually being controlled?

[Kinsey]

I don't necessarily think he's been controlled. But there was something that came to mind earlier when you were just talking about him being like a tactician and everything. He was like quick to reject General Melgren's pleas for help and was like screw you guys, we're not going to save you guys. We're not going to participate in the battle. Which like, granted most of them felt the same way. He only actually cared once Violet left, so he did go to save her. But we also know the Venin want Violet alive. Anyway, I don't think he's been controlled because as far as we know, we don't know if wyvern are actually intelligent or not. They're not dragons. But Brennan has a brain and he had thought and free will beforehand. So I don't necessarily think he's being controlled by a specific Venon. Unless it's the general or whoever would have been above Naolen would control him. But if there's a reason why he's still alive, maybe it's because that bond from Tern carried over. I don't know. If Tarin dies, we'll find out.

[Hannah]

I guess you're talking about Brennan or Naolen at this point.

[Kinsey]

Brennan. Well. Cause at first I thought you're gonna not say controlling but like. Cause the rune Connects them to a life source.

[Hannah]

Also that we're making the assumption is a venon.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, we're assuming. Cause if a venon dies, the wyvern die. So if Naolin's already dead and he's like a wyvern, you still are working.

[Hannah]

With the theory that he gave him that rune.

[Kinsey]

I am working.

[Hannah]

So in no scenario do you actually think or you're not like choosing to buy into it being like, if that's a rune on his hand, you're convinced it's Naolin that gave it to him in some form or fashion? There's not another venom out there that you know of right now that you think it gave it to him?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I think Naolin gave it to him. But I don't know like how that equates to him still living if Naolin is dead. Unless it's like he had extra protection. Who freaking knows? This is all a hypothetical.

[Hannah]

No, my favorite thing with theories is being like, okay, if this theory is true, how does it affect. How does it compound with the other ones? Carly, I'm intrigued to see you look like you've got some wheels turning.

[Carly]

What?

[Hannah]

What's going on over there?

[Carly]

I have two theories on what I think the rune shaped scar is. And so first I want to clarify. I think the rune shaped scar is a rune that was burned into his hand and that's what caused the scar. And then it was like burned into him to burn in a rune ability into Brennan.

[Hannah]

Oh, shit.

[Carly]

I think that's what it is. I have no other evidence than the little bit we learned about runes in iron flame. But I think it's doing one of two things. And one is sad and dark and one is more fun.

[Hannah]

So I want the more fun one.

[Carly]

You want the more fun one.

[Kinsey]

Start with sad and dark.

[Hannah]

We'll end off on the high. Yeah.

[Carly]

So when Naylin saved him. Naylin was a siphon. And I think Naelyn, either intentionally or unintentionally. Maybe not. Because they're not supposed to know what the Venin are. You're right.

[Hannah]

Because they were not at that battle. So they're not supposed to know that they can even pull from the source at that point.

[Carly]

Exactly. Like, so he shouldn't have known. Maybe he did, but he shouldn't have known.

[Kinsey]

I mean, he was fighting Fenri Ryerson. Maybe he had said something.

[Hannah]

That's a whole thing we, Carly and I talked the other day.

[Kinsey]

Finish your thought. Finish your thought.

[Hannah]

So much suspicious about that. Yeah.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Carly]

Nan was a siphon. I think he pulled power potentially from the ground and into Brennan to save him. Potentially not realizing what he was doing. Maybe he just sensed another energy source, needed more power and did that in the moment, instinctually to save him. However, I think turning Venon, there has to be a little bit of a choice. Like a little bit of a I am exchanging.

[Hannah]

It's fracturing your soul.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

It would be immoral to me if that person can't make the consensual choice to exchange their soul.

[Carly]

Exactly. So I think when this happened, because there wasn't that, I think it damaged Brennan in some way, but did not turn him Venon. And that is why Sigale doesn't trust him. She senses there's something off about Brennan.

[Hannah]

I love that. Okay.

[Carly]

And I think that when this happened, if. If this scenario is what went down with him and Nayland, that he started to hunger for more power even though he wasn't Venon. He started hungering to turn Venon, like the way that they talk about hungering for more power because it healed him, but it also damaged him. I think it's left him with that desire for more. And he found a way to like stop himself from being able to do that with the rune shaped scar that it is something to prevent him from doing that.

[Hannah]

You're talking about Brennan has Brennan.

[Carly]

That's what the runeship scar is.

[Kinsey]

Give it to everybody.

[Carly]

Right. But I'm not saying it necessarily works. I'm just saying that maybe that was the intention behind it, was to try to stop this desire to turn.

[Hannah]

For people listening, I know we could sound like we're like hardcore clowning here, but like Rebecca has made it abundantly clear that she lays in Easter eggs. I've even said a quote on this podcast in previous episodes many times before that she has laid an Easter eggs into book one and two that won't come into fruition until books three, four and five. This is not something that a writer, especially based off of what we have learned about Rebecca's writing style, this is not a detail she would have put in all willy nilly with no meaning or no context. This is something that's going to come up. And I wonder based on that, if his he just attempted that, would that be a big enough action on his part to warrant including in the plot. I feel like it actually has to.

[Carly]

Mean more because I think we're going to learn more about what they think the runes can do. So I think it's going to play in more to learning more about the runes because my Other theory on what the rune shaped scar could be, which is my fun one is when Violet in the very beginning of Iron Flame, she's like talking to Brandon. He gets called away to a council meeting and she's like, I'm not sitting around here waiting for him. I'm going to go after him. She goes out into the hallway, he's gone. And she's like, wow, he must be in a really big hurry. And she's surprised she can't see him in this long hallway. He's already gone. And I'm like, so maybe this rune shaped scar is either one, significantly increasing lesser magic so he can move super fast or two, maybe giving him like a rune slash, signet type ability, parallel ability to maybe do short distance wielding. Like maybe it can't go very far like a full signet, but maybe it's allowing him to like jump around in short distances.

[Hannah]

That's a crazy precedent to set on Rebecca's part that that's possible for people to do.

[Kinsey]

You know who else distance wields? Venon.

[Carly]

But we do learn that runes are the great equalizer. So I think we're going to find out that they can do some pretty powerful things.

[Hannah]

So you're saying that by it being a great equalizer, it's actually giving humans.

[Carly]

The ability to, to be able to compete with signets. That's what they say. Runes are there to compete with signets. So I'm like, I think that maybe he figures it out. It either has to do with his speed or something else.

[Hannah]

It would make sense why they were banned.

[Carly]

Yeah. Oh yeah, I know. Because we know the runes are banned right around the Crowvillen uprising.

[Hannah]

So I think I could see it being more. If we're talking about our theories and what we like buy into a little bit more, I think I would buy into the runes being able to give excelled lesser magics as you pointed out Carly, more than I could see them being signet. Like it could technically work in, in Rebecca's favor to give the Griffin flyers signet like abilities because they have lesser magic and they are really, really honed in on. On mind work. But they don't have like a specific ability. But maybe it's that this is like a rabbit hole theory really quick. But maybe it's that there's a rune type where you get like one chance and it is you do the rune and you find out after you actually, you know, brand it what your sign. It's also a unique chemistry based.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

That way it limits it. Nobody can just like put 50 rune brands on themselves and be overpowered.

[Carly]

I definitely think there has to be a limit in the magic system to it. There has to be. But I don't think they would have been called the great Equalizer if they were just for lesser magic. Because Devera says specifically that you can compete with a fair amount of signets if you know runes well enough. So if we're competing with signets, they have to be signet.

[Hannah]

Like, this world is so mind boggling to me. She is created in this magic system. I absolutely love it and I think there's so much here for her to play with. I would have so much fun. I'm not a writer, guys, but I would have so much fun playing with dragons and signet abilities because again, I'm such a powers girly. So any way that she chooses to go forward with this, I am so excited for the powers in Onyx Storm.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Oh, that was a fun theory, Carly.

[Carly]

And then a high note for Brennan.

[Hannah]

And then we're taking it to Jack.

[Carly]

Yay. So staying on a high note, I want to talk a little bit about Jack and my theories for him because Rebecca has hinted that we're going to find out that he has these deeper internal motivations that are going to make Jack make more sense. And I have some suspicions about it and it has to do with feathertails. Oh, do share. So Violet repeats some information about feathertails to herself that no one else seems to know. Violet repeats it to herself. She's not reading it from a book. I'm assuming this information has come from her dad because what she says to herself, our feathertail dragons are the breed we know the least about. This is because feathertails reportedly abhor violence and are not suitable for bonding. Though this scholar cannot be certain, as one has never left the veil within my lifetime. We never get a source for that. It's not in a book. I think it's her dad. Because nobody knows anything about feathertails. Right then at threshing, Violet overhears Jack say, it's unrideable, a certified freak. And you know, feathertails are useless in combat. They refuse to fight. And Violet in her head is thinking, no one knows anything about Featherstales. So I don't know where Jack is getting his information. But Violet has this information. So I'm assuming that the only place Violet could have gotten this information is from her dad and she doesn't understand how Jack could have it.

[Hannah]

I know where you're going with this and I'm so excited for listeners, if this is the first time you've heard this theory. You're. Just prepare yourselves, all right? Carly, take it away.

[Carly]

The connection to this information could be through Violet's dad. If Jack is an illegitimate child of Papa Sorrengale, it might explain why the dad might have shared the information with him. And it would explain why Jack hates Violet so much on site, as well as the Feather Tales that dad was so obsessed with researching. And I think that's why he is endeavoring to take them both out in fourth wing.

[Kinsey]

I'm done.

[Hannah]

You haven't heard that theory yet, Kinsey.

[Kinsey]

If I did, I.

[Hannah]

No wonder. Okay, it makes sense now, because when I was listening a couple weeks back to the Feather Tales episode, helping with show notes and things for Garli from our new Dear Dragon Readers episodes, if you haven't watched it. Oh, my God. But I was sending voice memos back to back as I was listening, because I was like, holy fuck, Garley. Holy shit. And it gets better, guys. This is just, like, the tip of the fucking iceberg. There are theories on this, and it's all interwoven with, like, the dragons and the Venin, and it's a whole thing. But, Kinsey, I want to hear what your first impression is, because I've had, like, a little bit of time to process this. But what are your thoughts right this second?

[Kinsey]

I mean, all of the coloring is off, and I'm like, okay, blonde hair, blue eyes. Those are recessive jeans. But, like, all of her siblings have darker hair. And, I mean, we don't know what her dad looks like. So I suppose he could have been blonde and had blue eyes because she has pale eyes. We don't know what Jack's mom looks like. I don't know me going into the.

[Carly]

Biology of things, but I will point out that Violet has eyes that are both amber and blue. And his eyes are blue. So possible we don't know what the dad looked like at all. I don't want to get into the entire Dragon Beaters episode in the middle of this, but I think that there has to be a motivation for why Jack hates Violet so much. And I think we're going to find out why. But I have one other possibility.

[Kinsey]

Well, real quick. If he's an illegitimate child and, like, there was an affair. What? He's just, like, supporting two families. Like, he's actually going back to this person over and over and, like, saying, by the way, I have another family. This is what they're like. Like, I feel like Jack shouldn't even know that they exist. Like, why would he.

[Hannah]

Maybe he wasn't supposed to.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe he has the research and he stole it from his dad. But, like, why would his dad. I don't know. I just.

[Carly]

I think that dad was spending time with him in secret. That's the only way this theory works.

[Kinsey]

And, well, he could have done a better job raising him because he's a dick.

[Carly]

He's a terrible person. I think, though, the fact that Jack would have been an illegitimate child that was never recognized, that would have fueled his anger. He would have been furious being kept secret. You know, this isn't like a world with, like, social media. Like, you can't just, like, go find people easily. I just think that it would fuel his motivations because I think we're going to find out some understandable reasons why he's so angry. But the only other way I can connect him back to this research because, again, he has.

[Hannah]

He has to know it somehow. Like, where did he get that information if not from her father?

[Carly]

And so the only other way I can connect him back to that information is through Brennan. Because it stands to reason that if the dad told Violet, he would have told Brennan. And what if Brennan told Naelyn? And what if Jack is related to Naolyn?

[Kinsey]

I accept that more.

[Carly]

Yeah, people don't like the other one. I still think it's possible, but people don't like it. If he would have told Naylyn, he could have known about the feathertail research. He could have known that information. And it might explain also why he's so obsessed with taking out the weak. What if he blames that for Nayland's death? That might be fueling his motivations for taking out anything he perceives as weak. And maybe that's why he wants to take out Violet and Andarna. So those are the two possibilities I have for how Jack possibly could have known this information. I don't know how else to connect him back to it, because it has to connect through the dad. And I don't have any other connection points that make sense.

[Hannah]

I want to buy into the second one because I want Papa Sorrengale to be good. I want his story to be heartbreaking and that he was fighting the good fight and doing what he could. A couple shades of gray is all right, but I want him to have had, like, this, like, tragic, honorable assassination death for being so good and Violet to have, like, a parent who she does want to embody and follow in. In their footsteps. But I do like it when things get messy.

[Carly]

And I think Violet needs to be able to take her dad off a pedestal a little bit. I think he's a little bit up there as the perfect parent and Lilith was the main parrot, and I think that that's actually important for her character development. So that would be a. A way of doing that, of having to come to terms with the fact that her dad wasn't perfect. He made mistakes.

[Hannah]

Well, I think that could be said for the fact that he, like, only hinted at her at what's going on. I think that there's a level of it that could be that. That she'll grapple with. I think that he's done something else. I think maybe Papa Sorrengail might have went on a long time with Blinders and did some terrible things in the name of Nevarr when he believed, you know, like the same thing with Dain. He was doing the things in the name of the propaganda that he was also contributing to as head of the scribes. But he had a moment where he found out more. I hope it's just that. Yeah, but I think that's also wishful thinking. And I think Rebecca likes really gray, complex characters and I could really see her unfortunately making a mess of the Soren gills.

[Carly]

I think it's possible. I just think that there has to be a reason why he knows the information and he hates Violet so much.

[Kinsey]

That would also, if he's a half sibling, would tie him into the fable of, like, the three siblings. And we know for a fact he is Venon. Everyone else is a Dragon Rider. But it could be another family betrayal type situation. If he is, I still reject it.

[Hannah]

But you just reminded me of a theory that it's not super baked, but if it is a thing that the three siblings, the one who bonded a dragon, one who bonded a griffin, one who turned Venon, are Violet, Meera and Brennan. Brennan the Vennon? That's ironic. Brennan the Vennon. Jeez.

[Carly]

All right, I'm sold.

[Hannah]

And then Violet, of course, is the Dragon Rider and so is Meera. But what if Meera goes and bonds a griffin as well? Which would be super ironic because she is known as, like, the assassin. Essentially, she slaughters them. Slaughtering griffins and their flyers.

[Carly]

It would be interesting. I guess we have to find out if a griffin would even be willing to bond somebody that's already bonded to a dragon.

[Hannah]

Yeah, because they'd have to. I mean, imagine how it's like Taryn and Darna, how close they are on having to do everything together. It's just one of those wild theories that's like, that would be the only way I could explain the siblings, because people really, really want it to be a repeat of history kind of thing, of prophesizing Violet in some way. And siblings.

[Kinsey]

Well, I have two theories on Jack, and they're not nearly as exciting, but one of them's not actually my own. One of my friends on Bookstagram Ishful Reading is absolutely convinced that Jack will get a redemption arc. So, Liz, this one's for you.

[Hannah]

That's all I will add on, that is Rebecca has. I don't want to mince her words, but if I recall correctly, she was asked that at a Q and A and did a double take. If I recall correctly, she was like, oh, y'all forgive Jack, but you won't forgive Dane? Something along those lines. I don't buy into that neither. But I do think that Lish is onto something about Jack because Rebecca has also said that when she writes like a villainous character. We mentioned this in our interviews coverage of Rebecca Yarros for Onyx Storm, which, if you haven't watched those, probably a good idea if you're interested in these kind of things. But she did say that when she writes a villainous character, she wants us to have a level of being able to empathize with them. So she's essentially saying she's giving us back to be able to understand why they got to the point that they are. And whether or not you consider that a redemption arc or just kind of like being able to, you know, empathize with the character a little bit more in the terrible, the shitty person he is.

[Kinsey]

And then my other theory is that he will never fucking die.

[Carly]

I actually. I'm just thinking of this on the fly, but I actually have a weird theory about that. Zaden, in one of the bonus chapters, describes Violet of smelling of some kind of citrus. And Jack's allergic to oranges. And so I think she'll be his demise.

[Kinsey]

I like it.

[Carly]

Yeah. All right, now that we're done talking about Jack, we have to talk about Papa Sor and Gale, how he died. Just really, really keeping it upbeat today, guys. I think it's one of two things. We know that he was researching feather tales, but no one's supposed to know anything about the feather tales. So I think it's possible the dragons ordered him dead because he learned too much about feather tales. And that that's going to be really hard for Violet to know that dragonkind, the things she's trying to protect ordered her dad's death. And the only other possibility I have for it is that it's the marked ones who she's also having to work with to reach her goals.

[Hannah]

You're saying the dragons or the march ones?

[Carly]

Either or. And that Garak is the one that killed her dad, and that's why he doesn't have a need for revenge anymore. And I think it's going to be one or the other, because, like, I. While I think it could be leadership, that's because we all think that's been.

[Hannah]

My assumption is leadership.

[Carly]

Yeah, yeah. And it could be leadership, but I just think there just has to be this extra twist to the knife, to this feeling of Violet having to work with, you know, either the dragons or the marked ones, these people she thought she could trust, and they're the ones that took out her dad and they can't take it back.

[Hannah]

Dude, Violet can't catch a fucking break.

[Carly]

She can't. She can't. But I also just go back to the fact that, like, you know, Yevo, Becca Yaros has said, like, who's Afraid of Little Old Me? Was a song she wrote a lot of Onyx Storm 2. And I'm wondering if she's gonna find this out and that's gonna be the thing that puts her over the edge.

[Kinsey]

He was definitely assassinated. He did not die of natural causes. No way.

[Carly]

100%, no. I don't think anybody believes he actually died of a heart attack. Right.

[Hannah]

Well, not of us, but I think some people take a lot of what, Violet's narrative.

[Carly]

No, I meant like, any of us. I think we're all on the twist.

[Hannah]

That was probably one of my first assumptions. I kind of just thought that throughout the books, without realizing it was a theory that I'd come up with in my head, I just kind of accepted it as, like, oh, yeah, that definitely happened. But I don't like the idea of it being the marked ones.

[Kinsey]

I could see him being killed from the scribes. Personally, I think that he found out too much about something he wasn't supposed to know. We want to assume that he's a good person at his heart. And so, yeah, I think they took him out.

[Hannah]

I actually think that it's. He found out things he was supposed to know as that high of a ranking scribe, but it's what he chose to do with that information that they didn't like and killed him for.

[Kinsey]

It makes sense.

[Carly]

Very possible.

[Hannah]

Regardless, Papa Sorrengail was assassinated, and you cannot convince us otherwise.

[Carly]

Yeah. 100%. 100%.

[Hannah]

Unless your name is Rebecca Yarros, but that would still take a lot of work.

[Carly]

Yeah, I might still think there's going to be an extra twist in the last book.

[Kinsey]

It's coming, it's coming.

[Carly]

I promise, Sky. So the other thing everybody wants to know about Papa Sorrengill is who is he? What's his name? What is his name?

[Hannah]

What is his name?

[Carly]

I don't think his last name was originally Sor and Gail, personally. I think in this world, in a military world, in a gender normative world, we're going to have a structure in which perhaps you take the last name of the highest ranking military member of the family, which would make it so that Lilith was the Soaringale and maybe he took her name. So I think if his name has been Easter egged in, it's either Colonel Daxton, who wrote Guide to Excelling the Scribes Quadrant, there is a quote in an epigraph and it sounds like him. It says there's nothing more sacred than the archives. Even temples can be rebuilt, but books cannot be rewritten. It sounds like something he would say. He says very similar things when Violet has flashbacks of him. So it sounds like him. But the person I want it to be is Captain Lawrence Medina, the author of the Effective Uses of Wild and Cultivated Herbs. It is the book of poisons Violet uses to poison people. And I love the idea that he helped her get through the Writer's Quadrant by teaching her how to poison people. I just, I think it's full circle and I love it and I hope it's him.

[Hannah]

If I had to pick one theory of all of ours that I just want to be true, if I could only have one, I think it's that one. Yeah, I love it.

[Carly]

I love that one.

[Hannah]

Yeah. I would not put it past Rebecca to have already given us his name. And her just like cackling, waiting two years to reveal it.

[Carly]

Oh yeah, 100%. Where she's going to be like, yeah. No, it was in the first few chapters of Fourth Wing. You guys, typical Rebecca.

[Hannah]

Yeah, sounds about Rebecca.

[Kinsey]

She's like, they're so dumb.

[Carly]

It's right there.

[Kinsey]

Can you guys even read?

[Carly]

Okay, guys, we're gonna talk about Papa Sorrengail's research. Are you ready?

[Kinsey]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Hell yeah.

[Carly]

Okay. I think Papa Sorengale's research started out as an effort to find something that could heal Violet because he realized she wanted to be a writer and he did not think that would be a real option for her safely without finding a Solution for her ligaments and joints. Because in the third chapter of Fourth Wing, when Violet sees Dane for the first time, he asks her, did you find some miracle cure I did not know about in the last year? Which tells me that is something that maybe they were actually looking for a way to help her joints and ligaments in a magical sense or in a healing sense. And I think this led him to feather tail gifts, because we know he knows about feather tales, and I think this is where the research started. I don't think this is necessarily what he was ending on, the feather tail gift, but I think this is where it started. And he started to learn about the gifts and how powerful they are, and he started to wonder if there is a healing feathertail gift that could have been even stronger than a mender. So I think that's where it started. But I think he ultimately learned, you know, about the venin and the feathertail gifts. And we'll talk about more about that in another section. But I. I think that's where his research started, was to help Violet.

[Hannah]

Carly, I love that theory. I love that that's the origin. But I'm curious. How far do you actually think he made it in his research? Do you think it's going to play as big of a role as, like, it's been hyped up to play, or do you think, like, he got cut off right in the middle? Like, when was he assassinated in this timeline for you, in your mind?

[Carly]

I think he made it pretty far in the research. I don't know that we're gonna have all of the answers, but I think we're gonna get pointed in the right direction.

[Hannah]

Not too easy.

[Carly]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Carly]

But I think he got pretty far. Too far. Maybe dangerous.

[Hannah]

If he got far enough to find out about gifts. I'm really curious if he was able to do that. How? Like what? Feathertail? Do we know of any feather tales that it could be?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, you know, actually, there is one that comes to mind.

[Hannah]

Huh.

[Carly]

Huh?

[Hannah]

One with a loud mouth.

[Carly]

Yeah, sassy.

[Kinsey]

There's a very specific part where in chapter 11 of Iron Flame, verish notes, it's ironic that her father researched feather tales and she ended up bonding to one. Violet argued that it was coincidental, then wonders, is it ironic? And Taryn promised, quote, I know nothing of your father's research, but Andarna has gone silent.

[Hannah]

Wow. I didn't even mean to set it up like that for you, Kenzie. And that was. That was immaculate for that quote. I thought I understood the word ironic. Until I read this part five times over, trying to make sure it was just, like, not computing in my head. So what do you think the difference of ironic versus coincidental is telling to just the average reader? Because I was struggling, I wasn't prepared.

[Kinsey]

For a grammar lesson based on how you're interpreting it. So irony could be like sarcasm. Or, like, it could be.

[Hannah]

Well, when something is ironic, it's like.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it's like you expect it to be. No, it's not still that you expected to be one.

[Hannah]

I'm pretty sure you're onto something. I looked up the definition of irony, and it was like.

[Kinsey]

Like, for the record, the song ironic is not actually ironic. Unless the whole point of the song was to be ironic over the fact that it's not ironic.

[Carly]

Yeah, ironic means to be, like, diametrically averse to reality.

[Hannah]

Wow, you thought I was gonna get that? But not.

[Kinsey]

But, like, a coincidence is it just, like, happens to occur. Like, it wasn't planned, but, like.

[Hannah]

But then what's the difference of Violet correcting her to say coincidental?

[Kinsey]

Yeah, so, like, coincidental, I think, is like. Well, it doesn't matter if my dad had studied feathertails or if he studied poisons. Like, I was going to bond to Andarna. So it's just a coincidence that she happens to be a feathertail? That's just the dragon she bonded.

[Hannah]

This sentence just fucks in my head.

[Kinsey]

That's okay. All I took from it was that Taryn insisted I had nothing to do with your father's research. And Andarna stopped talking. So, to me, I always figured that they knew each other. I feel like their paths had somehow crossed. Maybe that was how Andarna knew to bond to Violet. Because she heard her father talking about her.

[Hannah]

We will get there.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. She's a hatchling. Yeah. But anyway. So besides feathertails, he did also research the wards. I came across this in my Iron Flame reread. But there's an interesting passage. During the meeting between the Novarian generals and the Eretian representatives, General Sorengel said, quote, your father told me once that his research showed that Warwick never wanted anyone else to hold the power of the wards. He wanted Navarre to eternally hold the upper hand. But Lyra thought the knowledge should be shared. You have the heart of a writer, but the mind of a scribe. Violet. Why was her dad researching this? As far as we knew, he was researching the feather tales. It just, like, seemed like a really weird point to, like, jump to. Because to me, it made it seem like he had access to the journals of the first six writers. I mean, Violet couldn't find any of this information anywhere except directly from the source. Right. And then it made me think, well, why didn't he ever teach Violet the Moranian language so that she could research it herself? Because she knows almost all the dead languages except for literally that one. And by researching the Wards and Feather Tales, I think he somehow had accidentally made the connection that perhaps Andarna was part of a seventh den. And in order to raise a Wardstone to its full strength, you need a seventh dragon. And he would have. Maybe that's actually why he started researching the Feather tales. Because it was a seventh breed of dragon. Maybe it started at the wards and then progressed over there. But I just thought that was so odd. And I don't hear anybody talking about that quote.

[Hannah]

I've never thought about it before. I didn't catch that when you were reading it out. I. I actually think it's interesting. And we. We're told that he was higher up, but I don't know that we're ever told. Like he didn't become curator.

[Carly]

Right.

[Hannah]

So it's like the highest honor. He didn't get that high. But if he knew in his research about what one of the first six said, that shows how in the know he was about things. Because as we know Warwick's journal and all of the first six information is guarded in that deep Locked with royal access limitations. Yeah. For anyone to be able to get to in the archives fault. So it to me is shocking with you pulling that quote out that he was that high. And that tells me back to our conversation earlier. I don't think he found out things he wasn't necessarily supposed to know. I think he did things. Unless it was the Feather Tales, which goes back to Carly's theory about the dragons are who killed him.

[Kinsey]

So I'm going to get real crazy now. But one, if he knew the future. Two, came across a prophecy in his research. Or three, found vital destroyed historical text with those events now being repeated in present day. Because all of his children just happen to have signets at the core of their being that benefited the survival of the continent. Brennan mended the Wardstone, Meera expanded the wards. And Violet has the power to imbue the wards. He was researching the wards indirectly and it to me almost feels like he had molded them into becoming the writers that they are. So I don't know if he knew the future or if maybe Kazan Darna's feathertail gift was the gift of time. If she could tell him these things. But. But granted, Mira and Brennan would have already gone through the writer's quadrant at the time that Andarna was already a hatchling. So I think he must have come across some type of historical text. He maybe pieced some things together. He knows maybe the Venon existed. A lot of things are repeating, and he's like, well, all my kids are gonna end up being writers. Let's do it. But they're just all connected. It's just so weird. It was a big coincidence and I don't like it.

[Carly]

That's fair. Yeah. We're allowed to not like it, but still find it fascinating.

[Kinsey]

Okay. And moving on to our dragons, I would like to address our dragons who probably don't brush their teeth. There have been a lot of dragons that have been described as having bad breath, decaying rotten breath, and iron flame. I think that this is a sign that they are corrupt. Turning wyvern and or their writers are Venon. We saw this specifically with Varysh's dragon Solas, Jack Beyler's dragon Bade, and Dain's dragon Cath. They're also all orange dragons. But I do want to say Imogen and Brennan's dragons are not described as having bad breath. I don't think it's because they're orange dragons. It could actually be because Verish and Barlow both mentioned that their dragons were easily influenced. So maybe it's because the dragons could be influenced easily. That I don't know. But basically they took control. We know for a fact that Varysh and Jack are Venon. The detail would not have been included in there if it wasn't necessary. And the Wyvern are described as having rotten breath.

[Carly]

So I will mention really quick. Dane's dragon is actually a red dragon. Oh, is it a garden or a dragon? Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I thought it was orange this whole time. Mandela effect.

[Carly]

But I'm with you that I don't think it has to do with the breed of dragon. I don't think that that's where this is coming from. But I do have some thoughts on how it's happening.

[Kinsey]

Do share.

[Carly]

So the first explanation that seems to potentially fit is that it's when your writer turns Venon. And that would mean Dain would have to be Venon. And I think that's possible because Varys was his teacher. What's wrong?

[Hannah]

No, I'm just. I didn't realize you thought Daen was Venon.

[Carly]

I think it makes sense that Dane could be Venon. Because we have to remember that Varysh was his teacher. If he is Venon, I think Varys tricked him into it. I don't think he necessarily fully realized what it would mean ultimately for him. And I think it makes the interrogation scene actually make more sense because he's telling Violet, you should have told me. Now it's too late. But he's about to help Violet, so it's not too late to help Violet. I think he really, truly meant it was too late for him because he realized suddenly when he saw her memories, what Venon are, what's going to become of him. So I think that's one possible explanation. I also think it's possible Dain is in Venon and that there is another explanation for it. But, Hannah, you have a face. Are you okay?

[Hannah]

I'm. First of all, that's fucked up. That's the case. But it makes me wonder, because Turning Venom is, again, that can. It goes back to that thing we talked about earlier with the bad thing about Turning Venom is that you are exchanging your soul for power. And if you don't do that consensually, are you actually really losing your soul because you did it. You didn't know you were doing the bad thing. So I don't know how much I can buy into it or the implications of what that would mean. If someone could be tricked into turning Venon, I think that would be awful.

[Carly]

Yeah. I don't think he fully understood what it was going to mean for him, like, in the long run type of situation.

[Hannah]

You think he still knew it was bad, though?

[Carly]

I think he knew it probably wasn't great, but that it was a possibility. I think Varysh talked him into it if it happened, and that he thought it would maybe make him more powerful, like Zaden is more powerful, because he still is having a hard time accepting the fact that Violet chose Zaden over him. Varysh points that out in front of Violet.

[Hannah]

If this is the case, do you think he's still getting a redemption arc, or do you think that contradicts.

[Carly]

Yes. Yes.

[Hannah]

You think it's a part of his redemption arc.

[Kinsey]

He didn't know he was tricked. It could also just be because Dain and Varysh have kind of similar signets in a way. He could just think, oh, well, this is just like how your signet works. But you'd think that, like, his dragon would chime in at some point and be like, don't do that.

[Hannah]

That's what it kind of goes back to for me.

[Carly]

Yeah. I think that the dragon couldn't because they were using that serum blocking. Oh, or the signet blocking serum.

[Kinsey]

But then he wouldn't be able to use his signet, though, in, like, channel.

[Carly]

He wouldn't need a signet if he.

[Kinsey]

Was gonna channel from the earth.

[Carly]

But.

[Kinsey]

But wouldn't they have. I. To my understanding, at least, I've accepted in my head that they created the serum as a way to manage Jack.

[Carly]

We don't know that for sure. But this could have happened because they would have already had the serum. Right. They would have had to develop it back in Fourth Wing, and this would have had to happen sometime between then and Parapet in Iron Flame, when Varys.

[Hannah]

Came into the picture.

[Carly]

Yeah. It's the only way I have of explaining it. That also explains Varysh and Jack's dragon in a way that if we're assuming Varysh is Venon, like, if they're all venon, it's the only way that it's the one, I think that makes the most sense. The other one I have is a little more abstract. The only other explanation I have for the dragon's breath is it has to do with the hatching grounds. So we don't know where all the ancestral hatching grounds, and we don't know each dragon's ancestral line. But we do know that the Venin infiltrate the Espen mountain range in Iron Flame. They get to that mountain range, and most of the hatching grounds are in the mountain ranges. The ones that we know of, we know of very few. The only other thing I can think of is that the reason why that they're suddenly able to make different breeds of wyvern by the end of Iron Flame, where they have different colored fire that seem to correlate with the different colors of dragons, is that they are somehow using these ancestral hatching grounds of the dragons to make different wyvern. And when they do that, it corrupts the ancestral line of that dragon, which would be really sad because the dragons have no way of stopping it. But that's the only other explanation I.

[Kinsey]

Have, which is odd, because the Empyrean couldn't even agree on fighting the Venin and going off. So it's like if it was the ancestral hatching grounds, I feel like they would all be on board. Like, we gotta go. We have to join the revolution, because their lives are at risk if that's happening.

[Carly]

But I don't think they know. I don't think they realize. So I think it's a matter of. A lot of information has been erased over time, and it's leaving them at a Disadvantage of these things that can happen. So it's the only two ways I have of explaining it. Hey. She'd come out with a total other explanation of why the dragon's breath is so bad. But it's the only way I've been able to think of that can explain it for all three of those characters.

[Kinsey]

If Sigail's breath starts to smell, then we know it's because of the Venin. And if it's not, then it could be something else for Taryn.

[Carly]

Poor Taryn.

[Kinsey]

I wouldn't want to kiss that mouth.

[Hannah]

Exactly.

[Carly]

And then the other part of the dragons we have to talk about are the motivations of the dragons. What do they really want? How did this all come to be? And I think the dragons are at the root of all of this happening in the first place. I think that they are to blame for the Venin being created. I will get more into how the Venin are created in our Venon section. But I want to point this out. Some of the fables tell stories of first writers who learned to bond with dragons and how those bonds could turn on the writer if they tried to consume too much power. Which tells us that in the fables one of the possible ways of end and were created were through the dragons bonding and the bond turning. So it's a possibility that the origins of the Venon are really have to do with the dragons. And I want to point out I think they might also be responsible for the history being erased because archives are described as being both underground and fireproof, which would make them inaccessible to dragons to get to their records and destroy them again.

[Kinsey]

I accept that.

[Carly]

I think they maybe destroyed it in order to keep people from not just knowing that Venon exists, but that they were responsible for the Venin. I actually think they are responsible for a lot more of the decisions that are being made.

[Hannah]

Boy, do I as well. So I think that the riders quadrant is designed to be so deadly in order to prevent more Venin. They don't want. They being Navarrian leaders, don't want people who are power hungry getting that close to power being rejected by dragons as only so many of them are willing to bond each year. And then having those people who are rejected resort to pulling power from the earth themselves and turning Venon. Which we see with Jack. He's an example of just not getting as much power as he wanted. He still got to bond a dragon. So imagine someone who didn't even get to bond.

[Carly]

No, I think that dragons might be responsible for this part of the ruthlessness of the quadrant. That may be a rule that they have had enforced. So I'm totally with you.

[Hannah]

When I first thought of this, I was thinking it was Nevarian leadership, but Carly has me convinced now that the dragons could be enforcing. Basically telling Nevarian leaders, you have to do this. But the thing that comes to mind after that is like the dragons kind of have the opportunity to just roast them anyway. Right. So, like, it doesn't necessarily make a ton of sense that they're preemptively killing off riders like Aurelie who were and would have been skilled and probably would have bonded. So there's still some, like, there's still some suspicious stuff going on, but overarchingly, I think that it is just that ruthless and deadly in the name of preventing Venon.

[Carly]

Yeah, agree.

[Kinsey]

Speaking of ruthless and deadly, let's move on to dragon deaths. So I don't necessarily think that this will happen in Onyx Storm. If it does, Ouch. I do think it will happen at some point, but for maximum trauma, I think that out of any dragons to die in the series, it will either be Taryn or Sigale. I think they're up on the chopping block because we know from the end of Iron Flame that a Venin can survive even if their dragon doesn't, which means Zaden would be safe. And Violet has a second dragon, so she probably would survive with just Aunt Darna. But if Taran or Sigail die, we would be heartbroken to lose the two of them and we would be extremely stressed thinking, oh my gosh, are Violet and Zaden next? So I think it could happen. I don't want it to, but I am mentally preparing now.

[Hannah]

I'm not. Yeah, I'm full blown denial.

[Kinsey]

I made a reel about this and I to this day get very upset comments about it. And that's okay. I'm just. I am mentally preparing for it and let's move on.

[Hannah]

You just leave us to just be in pieces after it happens. I think you're right. I think it's going to happen. I'm not going to be happy about it. I would really prefer her leave them alone.

[Kinsey]

I actually have a little thing to add in.

[Hannah]

Please.

[Kinsey]

If it's not Taryn and Sigail. One of Rebecca Yarros's writing songs was the Sign of the Times by Harry Styles, and I'm a big Harry Styles fan. That song is about a mother who dies during childbirth and it's like her farewell to say goodbye to the infant child and she knows that she only has minutes to say goodbye. So to me, when Rebecca Yarros put that out as writing vibes, I was like, holy shit, we're gonna lose another dragon. Because the writers know that they only have minutes left to live to say goodbye to, like, their friends and whoever else. So that got me thinking.

[Hannah]

What if that's Andarna's parents?

[Kinsey]

It could be Andarna's parents too. But like that song the Sign of the Times by Harry Styles, like, that's what it's about. It's very morbid. It's high in she is making it.

[Hannah]

Very difficult to end these episodes off on positive notes because I storm. Like guys, I don't have the high.

[Kinsey]

I'm depressed.

[Hannah]

I really think, like whether or not the dragons decide, I just don't have the mental capacity to think about them dying. I just don't. Dragons aside, we are in for it. I know we keep saying that to I lean into it to be dramatic, but I no longer feel like that's exaggerative. I think we're in for it.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And that wraps up our first Theories episode.

[Kinsey]

Hannah needs to go cry for a bit, so we're gonna take a break.

[Hannah]

Oh my gosh. We had so much more to say than I think any of us realized. So we will be doing more than two parts of this theory's series, I suppose you could call it at this point. Thank you all so much for listening.

[Kinsey]

If you are here for Onyx Storm prep content and want more, we have already released bonus episodes breaking down the Onyx Storm blurb, the Onyx Storm back jacket excerpt, the Onyx Storm sneak peek from Cosmo magazine, our deep dive on Imogen, our recap of 4th Wing and Iron Flame, and a two part episode's hint and clues that Rebecca Yaros has dropped in interviews and Q&As for what to expect in Onyx Storm.

[Hannah]

We have been putting in the work.

[Carly]

And I'm always so impressed Kenzie, when you get through that whole thing in one breath. You see Onyx Storm so many times and we aren't stopping there. You can expect part two of our Theories episode very soon.

[Hannah]

And part three and part three, possibly part four.

[Kinsey]

Oh gosh.

[Carly]

The Neverending Theories series. And then we will be doing an initial reactions episode after we read Onyx Storm before taking flight into our season three on Chapters by chapter style Deep dive of Onyx Storm.

[Hannah]

Woot woot.

[Kinsey]

I'm excited.

[Hannah]

And if you haven't already, check out our first season Chapters by Chapters deep Dive on fourth Wing through the lens of Iron Flame. There are over 30 hours of binge worthy content to explore, including summaries, theories, easter eggs, foreshadowing, signet speculation, fangirling and more. Beware. Those episodes do have Iron Flame spoilers though. If you are listening to this episode. What the fuck?

[Kinsey]

Too late.

[Hannah]

All of those episodes do have timestamps in the show. Notes for them in every episode. If you would like to jump around, this episode does too. Just like all of our episodes.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, as always, we encourage you to email us your thoughts, your theories and suggestions or drop them below if you are watching on YouTube. Or join us over on our Discord and don't forget to follow us on our socials. Dear FantasyReader podcast side note that also.

[Hannah]

Includes your thoughts and reactions to Onyx Storm because very, very shortly after this episode releases it will be in your hands and we want to hear it. I cannot wait. It's like our our Discord. I can't wait. I can't wait.

[Kinsey]

It's fun and hopefully our sad theories are all wrong.

[Hannah]

Yay. Until next time, Dearest Fantasy readers, prepare yourselves for more Onyx Storm theories as we continue our journey through the Empyrean series. Part 2 at T Mobile we'll give.

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