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Dear Fantasy Reader
Ep. 7 Onyx Storm Deep Dive: Ch. 17-20 | Easter Eggs, Theories & Key Moments
01:46:14
Join your favorite Quest Squadmates—Hannah, Kinsey, and Karly—as they dive deep into chapters 17-20 of Rebecca Yarros' captivating fantasy, Onyx Storm! First, they'll journey into the Archives Vault for a quick chapter recap before diving...
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- [00:00]
Hannah
According to Saltis Wealth, 41% of high net worth individuals report having been victims of financial crime. Are you next? High profile individuals like you need more than off the shelf solutions. You need concierge Digital security from Reputation Defender. It's not just another app, it's a team of experts using best in class tools to protect you and your family, covering virtually every aspect of your digital life. Visit reputationdefender.comsuccess to learn more. That's reputationdefender.com success I brought my whiteboard.
- [00:31]
Carly
In case you want me to do my visual.
- [00:33]
Kinsey
I do. I have it in the script.
- [00:35]
Mira
Do you have your marker too to draw the t?
- [00:38]
Kinsey
Look at you go. Good girl Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast where we travel through the pages of our favorite Reading Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.
- [00:59]
Mira
I'm Kinsey.
- [01:00]
Carly
And I'm Carly.
- [01:01]
Kinsey
Join us as we take flight into the world of the Infurian series, diving deep into Onyx Storm, breaking down characters, scenes, foreshadowing and lore, fangirling over shadow daddies, building theories as we go, and more.
- [01:17]
Carly
With that content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everything in Perion series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarros has given us. So if you haven't read Forcewing, Iron Flame and Onyx Storm in its entirety, go do that and we will be here waiting when you are done.
- [01:30]
Mira
Also, due to the nature of these books, this podcast is rated R in content and language.
- [01:35]
Kinsey
As Rebecca Yarros says, readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please take note and prepare to face the storm. We have dragons to ride.
- [01:51]
Carly
This week's Star of Navarre Award for feedback that made our heart soar goes to Angie, who sent us the following message in our discord hello readers, listeners and DFR creators. There are no words for how much I love this podcast. It's the first one that I have thoroughly wanted to listen to. I've never enjoyed podcasts before. You three. Oh thank you so much Angie. Messages, comments and reviews like this mean so much to us. If you are also enjoying the show, please consider leaving us a review. It's a small thing that makes a big difference.
- [02:19]
Kinsey
Thank you Angie. That's saying a lot. We have some long episodes, it's a.
- [02:24]
Carly
Commitment and anytime somebody's like, oh, this is the podcast that made me listen to podcasts or this is the only one I listen to, I'm like oh.
- [02:30]
Mira
My gosh, this is such a compliment.
- [02:32]
Carly
Such a honor.
- [02:32]
Kinsey
It's so heartwarming yeah. Thank you. Alrighty. First objective, breaking into the Archives vault for a summary report of chapters 17 through 20 with our squad mate Kinsey. As a reminder, if you don't need a refresh and would like to jump ahead, you can find the timestamps for each section down in our show.
- [02:54]
Mira
Notes Dane manages to obtain Papa Sorringale's research, but that relief is short lived once Violet realizes it's locked and warded with runes. More embarrassingly, it came with the clue that first love is irreplaceable. So now everyone is prying into Violet's history to solve the riddle. In the meantime, Garruk joins Professor Zadi for Signet sparring and Iron Squad successfully defeats Garruk. Celebrations are cut short, however, when Navarre's most useless heir, AKA Halden, shows up to Signet sparring. He delivers an already open letter to Violet from Tokarys and admits he likes their plan more than Grady's, so he'll make Quest Squad change course. Despite cheating on Violet, Halden uses this interaction as an attempt to win her back, and Zaden's shadows show up to do what they're best at, throwing Halden against a wall.
- [03:41]
Kinsey
I would say he's pretty good at quite a few things, those shadows.
- [03:45]
Mira
But thankfully Halden's ego was somewhat useful because he made a comment that anyone who's ever dated a writer knows their first priority. Their first love is their dragon. This helps Violet crack the code to her father's research, and she uncovers his draft of the second Crovlin uprising, as well as a handwritten letter from her father with instructions to travel to Devarelli, one of the Isle kingdoms, to find a weapon against Vennon. Shortly afterward, Quest Squad heads to a village outside the wards near Samara to retrieve a valuable gemstone that can be used to request a meeting with Deverelli. Predictably, the mission was a complete disaster, resulting in the much awaited deaths of Professor Grady and Aura Bynhaven. Despite the chaos of Aurra torching Grady, the town and triggering a Wyvern attack, Meera obtained the Aemilian Citrine with a taunting letter from our favorite Venon Theophany. Back at Basgayath, Violet is pissed about Quest Squad's mission. Riddick insists that bad things happen whenever they're not together, and he's finally able to convince Violet to let him join the Quest Squad. Violet brings Riddick, as well as Kat and her cousin Drake to the next Scenarium meeting to discuss what happens next. Despite Quest Squad's mission Being a near complete fail, Violet is told she still won't be in charge. Furious, she demands to choose her own squad. And thankfully, they relentless. It wouldn't be a true scenario meeting without dramatic threats. So Meera ends the event with a swift knee to Drake's balls, thanking him for the attack on Montserrat's words last year. There we are.
- [05:16]
Kinsey
Grab your leathers, Quest squad, as we are finally getting our hands on some of Papa Sorngill's research. Diving right into our analysis and discussion section, where we walk through the most important and interesting plot points and moments in this section of chapters. Starting off strong, what did we think of jealous Zaden over the particularly annoying prince that we finally got to meet?
- [05:43]
Mira
I thought it was a little uncalled for because, like, if you're comparing Zaden and Halden, we know who the obvious winner here is.
- [05:54]
Kinsey
Yeah, Carly. I'll wait. I'm holding my tongue. I'll wait, Carly.
- [05:59]
Carly
I think this would have been interesting to see like Non Ven and Zaden reacting to Halden versus Ven and Zaden. Because I have to wonder how much of his control is gone at this point because he's known for his control. I almost think Non Ven and Zaden would have been more interesting. Yeah, but it was quick.
- [06:21]
Kinsey
Yeah. So I talked it up quite a bit in our Halden theories before we got this book. So I was really hoping to get to see jealous Zaden. That's why I wanted that Halden theory to be true. And I think it was very fast. It felt a little bit uncalled for. Like, I wanted to see him jealous, but I wanted it to be like, with good reason. And him just jumping straight into. Him talking to her. Him going to touch her, which is kind of a mini trope. I would have enjoyed had it. I just felt like it had, like, stewed. I needed a sl Burn Jealousy. And it just came off to me, unfortunately, a little bit immature. And I'm being like, did you love him, Satan? Like, she is willing to die for you. I don't know. I like seeing. I was interested in seeing the jealous Satan, but I like his confidence more, I think.
- [07:13]
Carly
Yeah, I think you're right, though. It just was a little quick. And it kind of felt like a snack instead of a meal. I wanted a meal.
- [07:20]
Mira
Perfect description.
- [07:21]
Kinsey
To give some credit here, I did really like where he was like, she really has not thought about you. That was nice. Yeah, I'll take that.
- [07:29]
Mira
That was good.
- [07:31]
Kinsey
Now we're going to jump right into the research that we have been waiting three books for. So Violet unlocks her father's research and finds a letter that he wrote her. We are going to read through it first, and then discuss what stood out most to us.
- [07:45]
Carly
Dear Violet, it's my most sincere hope that you are reading this by my side, laughing at the glorious mess that is a first draft. But I fear that may not be the case if I now walk alongside Malik with your brother. Then guard this manuscript carefully. But if the worst has happened and your mother has joined us, then you must protect this knowledge with your very life. Within these pages, you'll find my careful study of the second Crowland Uprising. But, my daughter, remember what I taught you about history. It is simply a collection of stories, each influenced by those that happened before and steering the ones to come. I wrote this study so it could be read by others, but understood by you. If time is sweet, peruse at leisure. You'll find the connection between the uprising and the pursuit of feathertails to be both alarming and enlightening. But if time has indeed run out and you seek the weapon to defeat those you've only learned about through lore, then abandon your robes and ride for Cordan. You have always struggled with Crowvalish, but I made sure Dane would be capable should you need him. Should he not choose to cross the parapet this summer. If he follows in the footsteps of his father, you must find the strength to let go of your affection for him. From Cordan book passage to Deverelli. You will be safe, beyond the reach of magic there and quietly seek the merchant Neyrelle Anselm. Take her the rarest item you possess. Be sure it's truly exceptional to be given what you need. Do not send another in your stead. Should you travel under the banner of Navarre, beware their king. He bears grudges and speaks only in profit. I'm so sorry this falls to you. My brightest light. Trust only Mira. Love, dad.
- [09:12]
Kinsey
Anyone else's jaw on the floor when you read this for the first time?
- [09:16]
Carly
Yes.
- [09:18]
Mira
I was like, holy shit, what's going to happen?
- [09:21]
Kinsey
Okay, so I expected it to be more about the research, but he's got a thing for the letters. He's got a thing for the letters. And I enjoy them because they're packed full of Easter eggs. So the first thing that we want to talk about. Throughout this book, Violet has had a one track mind that the solution to the venom issue would be found in her dad's feathertail research. We even theorized that for so many hours before we got this book, and she thought all of it would lead her to the Irids. But in this letter, Asher explains that Violet now has his research on feathertails related to the second Crovlin Uprising, which we got so many Easter eggs for in previous books, which we will get into more in the next episode. But in order to get the weapon that Violet needs to defeat the Vennon, she needs to go to Devarelli to get the rest of his research. What do we think the weapon is that he says Violet will find? Because clearly she didn't. Or so we know.
- [10:20]
Mira
I definitely think Violet was still expecting it to be the Feather Tales, because that's what she's trying to find.
- [10:26]
Kinsey
But the Irids, specifically.
- [10:28]
Mira
Yeah, yeah. But the Irids are peaceful. I mean, at least they claim to be. They abhor violence. They're like, they can sort out their own issues and their drama. We're not going to support them. So I don't think they're the weapons. Maybe they'll be helpful instead. I think the weapon is something that you would make, and I think it could be poison. So let me explain. The research that they get in Deverelli is mostly about the flora and fauna of the Isles. Like he said in his letter, anybody can read his research, but only Violet is the one that will understand. It's about plants, but she can read between the lines. And he raised her as a poison master. Only Violet would be the one to find the hidden meaning in his flora research that there could be a special plant with poison to act against the Venin. For the record, I don't think that this is a cure. I think it's meant to fight against the poison that the Venin do have for their own blades. And it can only be retrieved from the Isles because their magic and flora are different there.
- [11:36]
Kinsey
I'm convinced. It makes so much sense. He's like, you have to go find the weapon. And here's instructions for how to find my research. I mean, context clues point to it being the same, but it is really interesting that she has that one track mind and she keeps thinking about the cure and is kind of like, hoping that she finds both. It seems like. Am I incorrect in that? Because she's looking for the Irids for hopefully just the solution, which is both cure and weapon, which could be same slash, two different things.
- [12:10]
Carly
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:11]
Mira
And I remember, like, the first time I read the book, I was like, why is he only writing about plants? Like, this is so lame. Like, we're just learning. I mean, it's great. We're learning about the isles, but why is it relevant? And so now on my reread, I feel like it is relevant because it could be connected to the weapon.
- [12:27]
Carly
I 100% agree. I think it was last week we were talking about Hidatis and I was like, that's also the name of a plant that's important for it's one of the few plants that they can use to make antibiotics against antibiotic resistant infections. And I was like, well, that's really interesting. And so I am with you on this. I think the flora is going to be incredibly important. So much more important than we know. And I think you're right. It has to do with the weapon.
- [12:53]
Kinsey
Well, if we think about the way that Rebecca Easter eggs, Violet being a poison master, yes, that helped her out a lot in fourth Wing. But like, it would be really cool to see that have a bigger payoff. And also we get these references. We know the faunal berries. We also have the Cygni flower that you pointed out. It has to be related in some capacity.
- [13:15]
Carly
Well, and that book on poisons is like one of the few things she takes across the parapet with her. And so I.
- [13:22]
Kinsey
What a. What an Easter egg. If that comes to be like y.
- [13:25]
Carly
I think that book will still be important. And I think Kinsey's right on, though. It's all about this flora research that he included. I don't think that was just because he thought it was interesting. I think it's because it's actually important.
- [13:38]
Kinsey
Well, no. And it's also not easy to get over there in research. So if he's investing all of that time, he had to have been onto something.
- [13:48]
Carly
All these pieces have to connect, right? Like the flora research, the book of poisons, the fact that he trained Violet and Brennan in poisons. I just think it all has to connect hard.
- [13:58]
Mira
Agree.
- [13:59]
Kinsey
And we couldn't get it in book three. I understand. I understand. One of the things about this, that again, we get so many little payoffs in this letter. And one of them was understanding why it is that Jane happens to know Crowblish because it was Easter egged several times in fourth wing. And then we got a little bit of a payoff. This is a perfect example. We got a little bit of a payoff in Iron Flame, where he was the only one that could help fully translate. And now we get to know, like, he knew that language because Asher trained him specifically to be able to help Violet. I do also think that it's interesting that Asher knew how terrible Dain's dad was. And that he couldn't trust him and assumed that Dane choosing to become a writer would make him terrible too.
- [14:45]
Carly
It makes me wonder if Asher didn't trust Riders in general or if he just wasn't going to trust Dane if he followed in his dad's footsteps because of how much he didn't trust Colonel Aetos. Which one is it?
- [15:00]
Kinsey
Well, first of all, he says so many times in various ways, like, they don't trust anybody. So I think probably he had a healthy amount of distrust for anyone, especially someone who would become a writer and like, lust after power. But in this letter, he does specifically follow it up with if he follows in the footsteps of his father. So I think that what he's trying to say here is maybe that Colonel Atos, at that time, I guess, would be grooming him almost.
- [15:30]
Mira
I definitely think it's interesting that he's grooming Dain for a mission, because if you guys remember in our theories.
- [15:36]
Kinsey
Oh, you're talking about Papa Sorgale.
- [15:39]
Mira
I think Papa Sorrengale was trying to, like, counter whatever Ados was trying to do to Dain. There's a reason that he, like, took him under his wing. And if you guys remember, I had a theory that, like, he's just grooming everybody out here. Like, it's just so bizarre to me. Yeah, in like a non weird way, it's just so bizarre to me that all of his children ended up developing signets necessary for keeping Navarre's wards safe. Mira became his shield, Brennan mended the Ward Stone, and Violet imbued the Ward stone. And I just think that's so bizarre. And it's like he knew what was going to happen. He was fully anticipating everything down to, I'm going to teach Violet this language, and I'm going to teach Dane this language, and I'm going to teach Brennan and Violet how to do poison. I don't know. It was just so weird to me that he was just so prepared for everything. Like, everything was laid out well.
- [16:35]
Carly
And the way you point out that, like, how they all ended up with the signets they did and how integral they were, it almost makes me wonder. And I don't necessarily know that that's what Asher was doing because he didn't want Violet to go in the Rider's quadrant. Yeah. But it makes me wonder if it's possible to manipulate magic to get the signets that you want or are going to need. It makes me wonder if that is what is causing magic to go out of balance, is that people are purposely manipulating It.
- [17:02]
Kinsey
There's something suspicious going on here, and I don't think that it would be at Papa Sorrengeille's hand. So I'm actually thinking that it's not throwing magic off balance, but actually magic correcting itself into balance by giving the Riders of this generation the exact signets that are needed. But I also will say I think the Empyrean and the dragons have some role in this, which we've gotten hints about from the Irids, too.
- [17:25]
Mira
So it's just so weird that we're. Up until this point, we were told it's the writers that determine the signet based off of their need. Now we're told from Theophany and others that it's like a countering of the Venin signet. So it's like, is it a mixture of both?
- [17:42]
Carly
Is it.
- [17:43]
Mira
I don't know. It's just still interesting that we get these exact signets specifically to help with the plot.
- [17:51]
Kinsey
I'd also like to come back to this conversation when we talk about Riddick here in just a bit.
- [17:56]
Carly
Definitely.
- [17:58]
Mira
And do you guys know. Does he have a Taylor Swift song? Papa Sorengale. And is it Mastermind?
- [18:06]
Kinsey
As far as I know, she has not given Asher a Taylor Swift song. But I like that.
- [18:12]
Carly
I haven't seen that either, but I desperately want to know now, what is his song? Rebecca, give it up.
- [18:18]
Mira
He's up to something. I don't know.
- [18:20]
Kinsey
The best day would be pretty sad, but that would also be really fitting.
- [18:23]
Carly
Yeah.
- [18:24]
Kinsey
Anyways, not to make that more depressing. Okay, the. The last thing I really wanted to touch on about his letter is that last line about trust only Mira.
- [18:35]
Carly
It's so ominous.
- [18:37]
Kinsey
It is.
- [18:38]
Carly
It's so ominous.
- [18:40]
Kinsey
I've seen a lot of people use this line as evidence for theories that Brennan is suspicious that he's going to betray her, that he is venom, that he's any number of things. And I just want to point out that, yes, Brennan's suspicious and he might actually do any number of those things. But I don't think this is evidence, because in this exact letter, he says, you know, if I meet Malik with your brother, like, he thinks that Brennan's dead at this point. So that's not something where it's like, don't trust Brennan, only trust Meera. It's also the same thing about Violet's mom, because the letter is saying if she's also died. So I think that's important to note.
- [19:22]
Carly
I don't think it's like a direct warning. I think if it is something. It's just some foreshadowing potentially, but not because of Asher's perception of Brennan.
- [19:34]
Kinsey
Well, we'll talk about this in the next episode, but I actually think it's interesting that he might have stopped trusting Meera at some point because of how his wording changes in future epigraphs and letters. So we'll come back to that. Just a little tease.
- [19:51]
Mira
I also thought it was interesting, too, because he's telling her to go with Dain, but then he's like, only trust Meera. So it's like, is it only on the stipulation that if he joins the writers, then he's untrustworthy, or is she just always supposed to kind of keep him at arm's length and not trust him? Holy. Even though he could have been a scribe.
- [20:13]
Kinsey
Well, I'd imagine this was a couple years back, right? And then he was probably. And when we get that reaction from the shopkeeper, like, he clearly talked up Dana's being, like, probably who Violet was gonna be with. So to some extent, I could imagine that he had hope. But I think he got really, really distrustful of everyone there in that last six months as he was learning more and more. So it wouldn't surprise me if he was really like, I. I'm honestly surprised he trusts Meera. So, you know.
- [20:46]
Carly
Yeah.
- [20:47]
Kinsey
So. All right. We also want to talk about some suspicious wording on Violet's part. Specifically, when they leave the wards with the squad that Grady put together to go to retrieve the citrine. Violet notices the way that magic feels outside of the wards and that it feels more powerful, even though that's not necessarily the case. So she thinks magic slips free of the wards cage. Power expands in every direction, running like a current that rushes around me, beckoning me to play or destroy. My skin tingles as we slip down the valleys through the Esbens, and I'm struck with the oddest urge to try and pluck strands from the very sky and weave runes. She then goes on to say to Tarn, it feels like there's more power out here than usual. And he responds, there's actually less. The Venin saw to that. But you grow more powerful every day, more capable of realizing what once was entirely invisible to you. So what do we think of Violet's experience here, of the magic outside the hordes? Why do we think that she is recognizing magic to be more powerful? When the venom have drained that area? There is not that much magic there.
- [22:13]
Carly
This whole scene, to me, was so suspicious.
- [22:16]
Kinsey
It is.
- [22:17]
Carly
It's so strategically worded. Everything about it and the way the magic specifically is written, it's almost like it's trying to communicate with her. And Violet is saying that she has this. This desire to play or destroy. It's almost like, to me, it's referencing that she has these two conflicting paths. Because we know that she's on two paths, you know, that her path is not determined yet. And so I find it very interesting that she's, like, has these two very different desires of what the magic is beckoning her to do. And beckoning, again, is such a strong word choice here.
- [22:55]
Kinsey
The word play is such a. Like, it's not play or destroy. Like, destroy. She's a weapon. That's a path. Like, you know, Dune War or Malak Death. But what is the play like? Yeah, first of all, if I had magic, that's all I'd be doing. But it's such an interesting, almost childish word to use, which is not a judgment value, but it is suspicious.
- [23:24]
Carly
It's very, very suspicious. The theme of this entire book, everybody being suspicious. If the venom can steal magic from the ground, why can't they steal it from the sky? And then this made me think, if Indarna was the reason why she could access her magic in the Isles. And assuming this magic comes from the sky, because we're making some small leaps here.
- [23:50]
Kinsey
Mm.
- [23:51]
Carly
Why would Zaden not feel Violet's magic, like, he couldn't channel from her. He felt completely safe being with her when they were disconnected from magic. So it makes me wonder about this source. I don't know that it's actually accessible to the Venin at all.
- [24:10]
Mira
It's true.
- [24:11]
Kinsey
And why, for whatever reason I have just in my head, it's not been accessible. Like, I just kind of had made that decision of, like, if there's sky magic, which I imagine would be related to either Irids specifically, or dragons, or, at one point, dragons, and they kind of have switched or something. I don't really know how I've teased that out in my head, but in my head, I've just kind of thought, the Venon are strictly the ground. So what exactly would it change? That there is this magic system or source, I suppose, that's in the sky? Nothing for the Venon, really, because they can't drain it. Like, they can't. It's not tangible to them that we know of, but it would be for the dragons. So then why would the dragons not just be using that magic?
- [24:56]
Carly
I just think there's something about this source, not just like, how it's different, but how it's inaccessible. Like, why is it inaccessible? Why is it inaccessible to anyone but the Arids and their rioters? Like, why can Venon steal ground magic but not sky magic? I think it just. It opens a lot of questions.
- [25:14]
Mira
Yeah. And it's interesting that Taryn can see it and recognize it, even though he himself is not an Irid. But only those dragons can use it. I don't know.
- [25:26]
Kinsey
Violet is referencing all the magic outside of the wards, and Taryn says there's less. Violet is the one that then points out that she wants to pull magic from the sky, but that seems to be a separate subject from what Taryn might be referencing. So I don't know that we can take it as though Taryn is recognizing the sky magic that she's wanting to pluck. We do know that she uses Andarna's magic to pull runes, but she's never really, like, said it like this before, so it definitely is different.
- [25:54]
Mira
I interpreted it as the same because, like, she's like, magic slips free of the wards, and then she's, like, talking about how it's playing with her and Terrance's. You grow more powerful every day, more capable of recognizing what was once entirely invisible to you. So he is aware of, like, this new magic that she's experiencing. It's definitely. I interpret it as it's its own source. So, like, the dragons can use whether they're Irid, they can take from the sky or the ground. Regular dragons take from the ground, and, like, they're the middleman for the riders. But, like, here, it's just an interesting parallel to me because Jack says some people don't need to be taught how to channel from the ground to become Venon, because if they're a Rider or a Flyer, they already naturally channel. It's there and they can sense it. All they have to do is reach. And in this moment, she's definitely sensing it. It's calling out to her. She just hasn't pulled it yet. And it makes me wonder what would have happened if she did pull this magic. Because she wouldn't be pulling it from Andarna or Teryn. She'd be pulling it directly from the source. But I think it is a separate source from the ground and the sky. So I'm just like, what would happen? But to me, it's definitely like, she's aware of it. She feels it, she senses it, and she wants it, but she didn't grab it.
- [27:12]
Kinsey
I know a lot of us have Taken the whole. You will command the power. You have the power to command the sky as her lightning, or she's a Dragon Rider. But maybe she has some sort of unique ability to pull from that sky source, commanding hence the power of the sky. And it's actually not related to her lightning. And whether or not that is through Andarna or not, I think that fits.
- [27:48]
Carly
I feel like there's just so much confusion around, like, what the sky relates. Cause there's all these references in the fables, and then we get that line from Theophany, and then we have this line here about the sky, and it's just like, it always feels like it's not really clear if they're talking about her power from Taryn or her power from Indarna.
- [28:10]
Kinsey
I feel like that's intentional.
- [28:12]
Carly
Yeah, no, it had to be.
- [28:15]
Mira
Thanks, Rebecca.
- [28:16]
Carly
But there's so much about it that I'm like, I'm not sure it quite makes sense if it's from Taryn, unless there's something about Taryn we don't know, which is possible. But that being said, whenever I try to be like, it's definitely this path, or it's definitely this path, I'm like, oh, well, but this contradicts that. And I just get so mixed up on this. But this whole passage here, to me, I was just like, why do the venom not have. Like, if they weren't really supposed to have access to the magic from the ground, right. They stole it, and that's what corrupted them. Then it's like, to Kinsey's point, if Violet took directly from the sky, what would that do to her? And would it open up access to other people to do the same?
- [28:55]
Kinsey
It kind of comes back to the whole thing that I keep saying about making a consensual choice to steal magic and then becoming Venon. Like, if she would have plucked that strand, I don't personally think she would have become Venon. But it kind of, regardless of whatever was to happen, like, if she did that without knowing that, hey, you're going to exchange your soul, or XYZ is going to happen, if it's more than just like, oh, here's tapping into another magic source, which can't not have consequences in a world that magic requires so much balance in. But it's just. It's. How is that consensual? Like, how do you even know. To your point, Kinsey, about Jack saying writers would know how to. How to do that, but writers know how to do that for the ground. And then I Would assume if they're taught, they would know. Like, hey, it's not. Well, I guess that's not entirely the case because. Yeah, because it's not really taught. Hey, don't hold this. But maybe the dragons would communicate that. I don't know. But it just feels like, how could there be such a consequence with such a heavy fine, such as your soul, if you cannot make an informed decision? There we go. That's what I'm trying to come back on, to, which I feel like I bring up a lot.
- [30:15]
Mira
But, I mean, Taryn wasn't lecturing her in this moment, so I don't think it was like a bad magic if she did do it. Like, he's like, oh, yeah, that's interesting. Now you can sense it. Good for you. It also makes me think of Carly's theory from a few episodes ago, when they had altered the wardstone and how possibly that affects the bonds that the dragons have between themselves and the writers, which in turn will affect how they channel magic. And I wonder if this could be one explanation for Violet recognizing power that was once invisible to her, since now their bonds, their connections are different.
- [30:51]
Kinsey
I kind of wonder if it maybe is more like whatever protective rune was on there. Well, they exit the wards at this point, so it's like there wouldn't be a change. It would have already happened under the wards. But it does make me wonder if there is a rune on the wardstone that prevents riders from being able to access or recognize the sky magic within the wards. And that's how they claim, oh, magic is wilder outside of the wards. But maybe it's actually not. Maybe there's just so many limitations put on the wardstone to make it more controlled. As we've talked about, which kind of comes to that same topic that we talked about in that episode, about what they could be doing and how the extent of control that those wardstone runes could have over riders. This could be an Easter egg for that. So it may not be that Rebecca was trying to necessarily get us guessing on which protection rune was taken off, but maybe more look at what might actually be on the wardstone still, that is limiting them because even though they're.
- [31:56]
Mira
Outside the wards, I'm going to try to say this how I thinking it in my head. Yeah, I view the dragons and riders creating their bond as like a contract. So even when they exit the wards, the contract was like, signed, and the agreement was signed within the wards at threshing when they bonded. So changing the wardstone was like an addendum to that contract. And now that's why there's these changes. So even though in the past we do know Violet did leave the wards when she went to go visit to Karys, and stuff like that, but all.
- [32:28]
Kinsey
Of a sudden, this time it's different.
- [32:30]
Mira
Yes. And so I'm thinking it's gotta be that it's the way that their bonds were sealed. So I'm trying to like, view it as more of like a contract and not so much as like a location in the wards. Out of the wards. It's like what happens.
- [32:47]
Kinsey
So you're still working with the theory that whatever that protection rune that said it to be, protection that was removed is actually something that limited the bonds between Rider and dragon. And you're saying that now that they're outside of the wards, there's things between those bonds that are like free flowing, that were not before, that are not dependent. They weren't going to change specifically within the wards. That's something we would see going out of it.
- [33:15]
Carly
Yes.
- [33:15]
Kinsey
That's interesting.
- [33:16]
Mira
I got there from Carly, for the record.
- [33:18]
Kinsey
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:19]
Mira
Carly brought this up.
- [33:22]
Carly
I find that very interesting, though. I like the idea of it being like an addendum. Like, I think the way you described it's really clear because I think the way I think about those wards, it's like switches being turned on or off. Like there's all these different options and they're turning off some switches and turning on others. But I like the idea of it being like an addendum. Like they've changed something about the contract. And. Yeah, but I definitely am still on that. Whatever that rune was, was probably about control for sure.
- [33:51]
Kinsey
I think that's so fascinating. I also still think it's so interesting to consider what other control runes they have set on it that could be such a cool way for her to be. Like, oh, I can't, you know, give it to you guys in book three, but book four and five, we're taking those runes off. That shit is going down, you know, like, so fun.
- [34:14]
Carly
Well, we're seeing the whole squad become more powerful.
- [34:18]
Kinsey
I know I've been holding on to that for Riddick, which is perfect. Wait, you just let us in perfectly. So.
- [34:24]
Mira
So let's talk about Riddick's new skills. We find out that he can freeze the liquid inside of an orange. And when Violet asks if he can freeze the water in someone's body, he says, I don't know. So I think this sets the stage for Riddick freezing an entire wyvern at the end of Onyx Storm straight out of the sky, might I add. I will say it's a bit interesting and, dare I say, suspicious that he could do this just a few months later, especially without ever trying it on anything living or so he says.
- [35:00]
Kinsey
Yeah, I was really excited about this one because I felt like, I think I've said it before, like, ice wielding is cool, but it's not like that cool. Like, I'd be kind of disappointed if I had an element. So it was like, one way for Rebecca to, like, step up his signet. Especially, like, he's going on quest squad, we need him to be able to be more protective, which comes down to, like, what his needs are. So I don't know if that kind of relates to why he's all of a sudden able to do this, but it's definitely Rebecca showing the evolution of signets, which I am fascinated by. I've spoken about how we cannot understand people's signets or take how they understand it at face value because their signets will grow just like Zaden's with intentions versus he can actually read thoughts. Or Violet lightning wielding. She's pure power. So it's really intriguing to me to see the signets be able to do more things. But it's really interesting here because Riddick even says that this is not a typical skill for ice wielders, that only a few ice wielders can even pull water from the air, much less this. So, as you were saying, Carly and I wanted so badly to bring it up earlier. Our squad all seems to have suspiciously rare signets or rare abilities, even within the average signets, which is, first of all, more than six at this point, because we know that there's supposedly that, like that top six of the first riders that had those signets that we're going to see again, we're trying to narrow down who, but it's more than six. Okay. And then now we're seeing, like, variation within actual writers, which we have been told is due to dragons. But a trim is only 22 years old. Like, he's still a baby. Again, suspicious. And I'm wondering if we think that this has something to do with the imbalance in magic and maybe somehow Mother Nature, whoever's in control of this imbalance or balancing back, is trying to overcompensate for maybe having less riders. We know that less dragons are bonding and giving the current riders more access to more magic. I don't know. But what do you think? What do you take from this?
- [37:13]
Carly
I definitely think that their Squad is a response to the current situation. I don't necessarily think that their squad is what's putting things out of balance, but it is interesting to see the signets we're getting and how many of them we have that are so powerful. When we think about history repeating itself and there being the first six, and we're making assumptions that they had one signet each, which we don't know for sure that's true. I mean, they could have had feathertail gifts still, because we know the feathertail gifts don't always go away. It's possible they had second signet somehow. Maybe that's why they banned the runes, because maybe the first six were too powerful.
- [37:49]
Kinsey
Well, then we have this information about the dragons lying to their riders about their names, because they're what we assume is bonding relatives. So, like, there's non marked ones that could be out there with second signets, and we have no idea. Yeah, that could be really cool to find out. Riddick does.
- [38:04]
Mira
Who knows?
- [38:05]
Carly
So I definitely think their squad is a response to this imbalance. And I think through their squad, they're going to figure out and learn some interesting things about the first six.
- [38:17]
Kinsey
Yeah, and that's a really good way to put it because that's what I was trying to say about Mira, Brennan, and Violet. Like, they are a response to the needs of Mother Nature. Right now, if we want to refer to it as that. And the Balance Project.
- [38:28]
Mira
It's just interesting to me because Sawyer and Riddick don't necessarily have rare signets, but at least in Riddick's case, we didn't get too much from Sawyer in this book, understandably. But like, Riddick has an extremely powerful signet, despite it being super common. So that's just really weird too, because even just at Basgaith, there are so many different ice wielders, and there's a million fire wielders, and there's a bunch of people that are the metallurgists. And so it's just very interesting to me that it's only her squad manifesting these extremely powerful signets, even if it's.
- [38:59]
Kinsey
Not that we know of.
- [39:00]
Mira
That we know of.
- [39:01]
Kinsey
Which kind of brings me to what I want to talk about next. Like, we've talked before about how it could be that same protection rune seems to be a common topic today, but that that rune that was removed could have lifted some sort of control on the rider's powers. But I feel like we would have seen that in more writers and not just Riddick through the rest of the book, we only see it from Violet's point of view. Like, we don't know what's going on in first squad.
- [39:27]
Mira
But, I mean, we also get that mention from Sloane at the very end of the book where she makes a comment about Dain. She's like, oh, you're not supposed to have this much power. So, like, even we do learn that Dain gets more power, too. We know Zaden. I mean, he has many reasons to.
- [39:43]
Kinsey
Well, and that's not the first time we've gotten that information from Daen, though. I feel like it just reaffirmed what he said back in fourth wing to Violet about how much power Cath channels.
- [39:52]
Mira
Yeah, but it's just interesting. It came as a surprise because, like, she had channeled from Lilith before. She is now channeling between Dain and Brennan. I'm sure she could sense, like, the reserves in Brennan, but Daen disturbed her. Like, how much power he had V in.
- [40:11]
Kinsey
I don't know. I don't know.
- [40:12]
Carly
I also just want to point out, too, that Sawyer had to repeat his first year if he was, like, needed as this very strong metallurgist to alter the Wardstone. It's like some sort of intervening fate to make sure he was on Violet's squad.
- [40:31]
Kinsey
I just got chills. I love that.
- [40:35]
Mira
I like that a lot.
- [40:36]
Carly
I just think that there are more pieces at play to make sure these people ended up together on this squad with Violet at this time.
- [40:49]
Mira
Everything happens for a reason. Do we think it's the gods causing this, or do we think it's.
- [40:53]
Kinsey
That was my first thought just a moment ago.
- [40:55]
Mira
Yeah.
- [40:56]
Carly
I feel like. I mean, unless magic has some sort of divination power to, like, manipulate these things.
- [41:03]
Kinsey
Well, in some extent. Because if magic likes everything in balance, that implies that it has some role in the balancing. Right? Yeah.
- [41:09]
Carly
But, I mean, I feel like I always just think of magic as having a role in the magic people get, but, like, not getting them to a certain spot at a certain time. So maybe they're working. It's, like, working together to some extent. But, yeah, I agree. I think maybe potentially the gods are at play here and, like, getting these people together. Because I'll also mention, too, it's way back and forth being first or second chapter. Rhiannon is the one that's described as looking like Amari, Queen of the Gods. She's the only one that gets compared to her.
- [41:42]
Mira
I never forgot.
- [41:43]
Carly
I know.
- [41:44]
Kinsey
Never will.
- [41:46]
Carly
Yeah, Well, I mean, Rhys, just one of my favorite characters. I feel like I absorb all those little details about her. But I think that that is also some foreshadowing out there that, you know, that she's important and tied to this whole story as well. And I think we're gonna find out that to some extent, all of them are.
- [42:05]
Kinsey
I agree. Well, and I think the. Also, we can't forget how coincidental it had to have been for. And darned to know. To wait exactly however many years for exactly this description of a writer. Like, there's.
- [42:19]
Mira
And yet there's no prophecy. Yeah, right, Jenya. Yeah, right.
- [42:23]
Kinsey
Started.
- [42:27]
Carly
Still bitter?
- [42:28]
Kinsey
I am. We have two more books to find out that I didn't waste half of my life.
- [42:33]
Mira
No, but, like, even if there's not, like, someone had to know someone's strings. And Darna knew, like, I don't know.
- [42:42]
Kinsey
Not giving up, but conveniently forgot how she knows. So.
- [42:46]
Mira
Yeah. Oh, I Forgot the first 100 years I was in my egg.
- [42:51]
Carly
Convenient.
- [42:54]
Mira
All right, time to head on over to the healer's quadrant to take a temperature check on our characters, our favorite moments and standout quotes. Who was hot for you this week?
- [43:02]
Kinsey
Hannah, Violet, and Riddick. And I don't feel like I have to explain too much why there.
- [43:10]
Mira
I think we all said Violet this week.
- [43:12]
Carly
Yeah, we did. Yeah. It's also on my list.
- [43:15]
Mira
I loved how confident she was.
- [43:17]
Carly
Yeah, me, too.
- [43:19]
Kinsey
I loved our knots because I went and put in my notes. Yep. And I looked, and Carly and I had almost the exact same thing written. I have aura, but she got what she deserved. And Carly, I wrote aura, but she's dead, and she deserved it.
- [43:38]
Mira
And I got there last, so I just said, same. That or Professor Grady.
- [43:44]
Kinsey
Yeah, but Professor Grady. Something's just going on there that. I feel like he was dumb and.
- [43:49]
Mira
Useless, but, like, that also sucks. Sorry.
- [43:53]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [43:54]
Mira
All right, favorite moments. How about let's start with Carly, Violet.
- [44:00]
Carly
Refusing her new orders and demanding to pick her own squad and putting M4RKIM and Aetos in their place, all within a few sentences, was just Chef's kiss.
- [44:11]
Mira
That was the best. That was the best scene, Hannah.
- [44:14]
Kinsey
Okay, so when Violet and Zaden were telepathically sexting. It's my favorite. This was the scene where Violet made him choke while he was introducing Garak during signet sparring. And I love it all the more because it was a callback to the lunchroom scene in 4th Wing, where Violet made the same sexual reference telepathically, and Garak had to help Zaden because he was choking. So both situations, Garak was right there. And I also love that.
- [44:45]
Mira
Yeah.
- [44:46]
Kinsey
But then also, Zaden's pride in Sigale, eviscerating the Wyvern because he was smirking when Violet said, remind me to never piss her off. And it's just. I know that they're not really talking right here, but he's still just so proud of her. It's my heart. Go off Queensy.
- [45:04]
Mira
I also chose Violet, demanding that the Scenarium let her choose her squad. That was such a good scene. And then I have two Riddick moments that stood out. So I loved when, at the very beginning of Signet Sparring, Riddick teased that Imogen was going to love class today because Garak was there. And then she just whacked him up. She just whacked the back of his head. So I thought that was really funny. And then also just Riddick insisting that he join Violet on the Quest Squad and using Liam and being like, look, things happen when we're not there for you, and I don't want bad things to happen anymore. And I just thought that was really sweet. We got to see a different side of him. So I really enjoyed that part, too. You go, Riddick.
- [45:46]
Kinsey
That's why Riddick was hot for me this week.
- [45:49]
Mira
All right, and for our favorite quotes.
- [45:53]
Kinsey
Let'S get three things straight, you, Highness. First, I have remarkable hearing, thanks to the shadows at your feet. Second, I don't control Violet. Never have, never will. But third, and most importantly, she really, honestly hasn't thought about you. At least not since the second she set eyes on me. Shut the fuck up. As much as I like, was like. All right, Zaden, you're being a little much here. That lie. That lie.
- [46:24]
Carly
I love how much you react to yourself saying it. It makes me so happy. I will say I got your quote wrong this week.
- [46:32]
Mira
Really?
- [46:34]
Kinsey
How dare you? I was feeling so understood. Okay.
- [46:40]
Carly
Can I tell you the one I had for you, though? Yeah.
- [46:42]
Kinsey
Is it not on my list?
- [46:43]
Carly
It's not on your list.
- [46:44]
Kinsey
I trimmed it down.
- [46:45]
Carly
Tell me I'm jealous of the armor that holds you when I can't. The sheets.
- [46:50]
Kinsey
Wait, I think I missed that.
- [46:52]
Carly
Yeah, it's in these chapters. I'm jealous of the armor that holds you when I can't. The sheets on your bed that caress you every night. And the blades that feel your hands. Hannah, I. You feel.
- [47:01]
Kinsey
You know what? I let you down.
- [47:03]
Carly
Yeah.
- [47:04]
Mira
And then he's like, yes, love, I'm jealous.
- [47:06]
Kinsey
Yeah. Yeah. Yes, love, I'm jealous. That one. The second I was, like, a little icky by the fast paced jealousy Part was why that one was like, eh, it's not. But, Carly, the one that you. That one. I feel so disappointed. Cause that's one of my favorite quotes from this whole book. I don't know where. What chapter was that? How did I miss that?
- [47:24]
Mira
I think that would have been chapter 19.
- [47:27]
Kinsey
Gosh, I must have been like, I missed that. 18.
- [47:32]
Mira
Wouldn't it be 19? Cause 18 was when it ended with him throwing her into the wall.
- [47:38]
Kinsey
You know what, though? I still. I just said a second ago, I felt so understood when you guys kept getting them. Right. And now I feel like you understand me better than I understand myself. Because, like, how the fuck did I miss that?
- [47:48]
Carly
Well, then I'm glad I didn't fail you.
- [47:49]
Kinsey
Yeah, no, I feel like I just failed as a Zaden fangirl. I'm disappointed.
- [47:53]
Mira
Turn in your card right now, please.
- [47:55]
Kinsey
I will say, you know, I deserve it. I'm missing this one. I'm so ashamed. But I do have a second Zayden quote, and it is, I ask permission of one person on the continent, and it sure as Amari isn't you. And he was talking to Halden.
- [48:11]
Mira
Yeah.
- [48:11]
Kinsey
Yeah, that was a really good one. But gosh, no. Neither of these really touched the quote you brought.
- [48:17]
Mira
I had four quotes written down for you, and the two you mentioned, and then the one Kylie mentioned were of my notes. I literally have a section on my notes that says Zaden quotes parentheses for Hannah.
- [48:31]
Carly
Yeah. No, I have multiple. And then I narrow it down to one. I had anything Zaden said. I was like, this will be in Hannah's. Yeah.
- [48:38]
Kinsey
Yep.
- [48:40]
Mira
I will say I was also shocked that you didn't choose the.
- [48:43]
Kinsey
I genuinely have no recollection of here. I listened to the audiobook this week, and I have no recollection of that scene. I don't understand.
- [48:50]
Mira
You are probably really distracted by the fact that he was using his shadows to, like, restrict her arms.
- [48:55]
Kinsey
That was the Shadow Bondage one.
- [48:56]
Mira
It was the Shadow Bondage Distracting.
- [48:59]
Kinsey
I was like, wait, I need to make a meme about the shadow Bondage. So. Yep. Oh, my gosh.
- [49:03]
Mira
And he was like, do you love Halden? Did you love him? And then, like, they're making out.
- [49:08]
Carly
Yeah.
- [49:09]
Mira
And they were, like, making out, and he had the shadows. So I think you were just very distracted.
- [49:12]
Carly
There was a lot going on.
- [49:13]
Kinsey
Kenzie, thank you. Because I'm still ashamed, but I was very confused on how I could miss that. And that makes a lot of sense.
- [49:18]
Mira
We won't make you turn in your zaddy Fangirl.
- [49:20]
Kinsey
Card this week. Thank you. I'll earn it back. No worries. Okay. Yeah, I took over that, so you guys go.
- [49:30]
Carly
My favorite quote this week was, you get one chance to form your own squad and you choose your ex, your current lover, the quadrant's resident smart ass, two people who have tried to kill you in the past year, one over said current lover and whatever Dane is.
- [49:43]
Mira
And then Terrence says, I'm glad someone.
- [49:46]
Kinsey
Said it, because I felt the same way. I read that out loud because, remember, Matthew's in the other room while I was reading, and I literally read that to him and I was like, he's so right.
- [49:56]
Mira
Yeah, that was like my favorite quote too, but I did include some others, so I liked when Riddick said, oh, gods, just stop flirting in fuck already. I said that out loud, didn't I? Then I have two quotes from Violet. So this was to Ara. She said, the only rank that matters out here is cadet, so with all due respect, fuck off. And then this one was to Markham, so I love this one too. You don't speak. Not to me. As far as I'm concerned, you have the credibility of a drunkard and the integrity of a rat. You dare complain about missing six years of information on Arisha when you've hidden centuries of our continent's history from public knowledge? Get booked.
- [50:38]
Carly
Yes.
- [50:38]
Kinsey
That last, very last line about the history. I had that, and I was like, and Carly's yours as well. And I was like, these are going to be my honorable mentions, but I'm sure the girls have me covered. And I looked and you both did, and I was like, perfect. I can stick to my Zaden fangirling.
- [50:53]
Carly
I'm glad we're so reliable.
- [50:54]
Mira
For you, it's just such a good clap back.
- [50:56]
Kinsey
Like, she's like, so good.
- [50:58]
Mira
Love it.
- [50:59]
Carly
So perfect. Now, let's stop by the scribe quadrant for our epigraph analysis of the most thought provoking epigraphs.
- [51:08]
Mira
The chapter 17 epigraph reads, My brightest light. I meant to prepare you, but only had time for half the lessons you need, half the history, half the truth. And now time runs short. I failed Brennan the day I watched him walk the parapet. Failed Mira when I could not stop her from following. But I fear my death will fail you. Your mother and I trust no one. And neither can you. Recovered correspondence of Lieutenant Colonel Asher Sorrengale to Violet Sorengale.
- [51:35]
Carly
So when I first read this epigraph, it just seems to simply be a warning from Asher to Violet. And then I reread it, and Then I completely spiraled, which resulted in a 45 minute emergency FaceTime call with Hannah and Kinsey.
- [51:50]
Kinsey
I think you're undervaluing. That was a longer FaceTime call than 45 minutes.
- [51:55]
Mira
It felt like two hours.
- [51:56]
Carly
I don't know, it probably was longer, but I don't think it was only about this. But I.
- [52:01]
Kinsey
Probably not with our adhd.
- [52:03]
Carly
Definitely not with our adhd. No, I completely spiraled. So this is stated as being recovered correspondence, which is what started my spiral, which means Violet definitely received it. And since it is addressed to Violet without her rank as cadet, I believe it was written for her prior to entering the riders quadrant. If she did receive it prior to entering the writer's quadrant, then why was she not more concerned and more distrusting based off this warning that her dad gave her, whom she trusted? It says specifically that he only had time for half the lessons, half the history, half the truth. But then she's so surprised by these revelations. I find it odd that she's so shocked given what's in this letter. And it makes me question the timing of the letter.
- [52:59]
Kinsey
Well, and that's part of why I don't think that she would have gotten it before he died. I take the recovered correspondence and have it having been delivered to mean that she technically has it now. Like Jessinia is supposedly writing this in the future. It was technically delivered, but maybe not back then because it would just change so much of Violet's inner monologue and understanding her character through the first part if she had these ominous warnings beforehand. But the part about this that really gets me about the timing is, remember earlier when I was talking about the whole trust only Meera thing? I think it is really notable and suspicious that right here it says, you, mother and I trust no one and neither can you. So we were on FaceTime the other day. I was like, we have to figure out what would it mean if one was written before the other. If you've got it where he's saying, your mother and I trust no one and neither can you, and then a couple months later writes a letter saying, you should only trust Mira. To me it makes more sense and is really interesting if he wrote that first about trust only Mira, and then she did something that made him think that she was untrustworthy, and now he's saying, your mother and I trust no one and neither can you.
- [54:17]
Carly
The timing of this is so critical and we don't have that. I think it personally would have been written a different way if she hadn't gotten it at the Time like that he had sent it to her. So I personally, personally think she received this back when he sent it when he was alive. And maybe she got it shortly after he died. But I wonder. It makes me wonder if maybe she thinks that this is referring to something else, like something else we don't know about, that he was teaching her. But that being said, I'll point out that in the letter he left her with the research, he talks about not knowing yet if Dane is going to enter the writer's quadrant. And so at this point, he's just going to trust no one. I think it makes more sense for this to be written after that letter personally, because I don't know why he would go from trust no one to trust Mira. I think it makes sense to go from trust Mira to trust no one.
- [55:13]
Kinsey
Which begs the question of what she did to do that, to make him not trust. Maybe you're right. And maybe this was written back then because we've gotten several comments from Violet about how cryptic her dad got toward the end. So maybe she kind of wrote this off as, like, he's kind of, like, lost his mind a little bit. Like him losing Brennan has really just wrecked him. Put him in. Yeah, like, he's just mentally struggling, and she just wrote it off as that. But you would really think that the half the truth part would have been enough context for someone like Violet to have had different reactions to things or wouldn't take as long to be convinced of all the suspicious things that she was picking up on in Fourth Wing that eventually, like, she got the letter about the lore and didn't connect that until chapters later after it was in her face. So I feel like. I don't know if Rebecca's writing it to have been like, hey, she did get this back then. But it feels to me like there's just, like, some character arc, things that just would be called into question if that was the case.
- [56:18]
Mira
Yeah, that's exactly why I think she did receive it, because she's like, my dad was going crazy. Like, I don't know. But maybe because she had already discounted it when weird stuff started happening. She didn't remember. Like, it was obviously very traumatic experience to lose her father, so she's probably not like, well, let me read his crazy letters when he lost his mind. So I think he. He did send it while he was alive, and she received it and she just attributed it to him losing his marbles. I don't know. But yeah, wasn't there, like, an epigraph where meera was like being offered a.
- [56:55]
Kinsey
Special award, but then the Star of Navarre.
- [56:57]
Mira
But then General Sorengale said no. Could that be one of the reasons why what she did was not trustworthy? It could be related to the award that she got. Maybe it was her actions in the battle.
- [57:10]
Kinsey
Because it could also just explain why her mom wouldn't feel comfortable giving it to her.
- [57:15]
Mira
Yeah, that just came to mind to me just now. When you're like, why don't they trust Meera? I'm like, well, there was a weird instance where she was up for an award and General Sorengel said no, and.
- [57:25]
Kinsey
We got no further context about it.
- [57:27]
Carly
The context I assumed around that was that she purposely downgraded it so that Mira would not rise in ranks quickly because she wanted to keep the truth from her. Could be that, but I just keep going back to the fact that Rebecca always talks about how the epigraphs are her most valuable real estate. And I'm like, why include this note from the past that maybe doesn't have any other context than to potentially let Violet know? Like, hey, you don't know everything. Unless 1. This is foreshadowing that Violet still doesn't know a lot. Like, maybe half the truth doesn't even have to do with the venom. Maybe it has to do with the dragons. Like, maybe it's more. And also the whole we don't trust any one line, like your mother and I trust no one. It's so ominous. And it's conflicting with the trust Mira, that I just think that there's gonna be more to this.
- [58:13]
Mira
Agreed.
- [58:16]
Carly
Hence the two hour FaceTime spiral.
- [58:18]
Kinsey
Yes. I'm also, like, spiraling right now because there's so many suspicious things that Mira does in this book too, that I'm like, so many.
- [58:25]
Mira
Like, keeping her visits with her grandmother.
- [58:28]
Kinsey
A secret, and then what she came back with from her grandmother, which I cannot wait to spiral about, but we'll save that one. Okay. The chapter 18 epigraph reads, quote, I cannot imagine sustainable life beyond the Emerald Sea. No ship has ever survived the tempests that form its ice tipped waves. And the only sailors who return from her exploration do so defeated. The Last Admiral A Memoir by Admiral Levian. Crossite.
- [58:58]
Mira
What I found most interesting about this epigraph is that Navarre likely disbanded their Navy. An Admiral is the highest rank a Navy officer can receive, and Leviaan Crosslight is credited as their last admiral. They don't have any more. We know Navarre has infantry and riders, but as far as we know, there are not any Navy cadets Training at Basgaeth, which tells us Navarre might not have a navy. This could be because most of their conflict resides on the continent. It's also possible that Nevarr disbanded their navy because they felt the sea was too dangerous and it wasn't worth having one if they were cutting ties with the isles. This epigraph also tells us once again, just how dangerous the Emerald Sea is.
- [59:41]
Carly
Cough. Kraken cough. And I mention a pirate cough.
- [59:47]
Mira
Also, sustainable life beyond the Emerald Sea. So there are more isles or continents out there?
- [59:56]
Carly
Oh, definitely.
- [59:57]
Mira
We just don't know what they are.
- [59:59]
Kinsey
Woo. Somehow we're fitting all of this in two books.
- [60:05]
Carly
Doesn't Violet at one point even say, like that? It's ridiculous that they refer to it as the continent, because obviously there must be others like that. She doesn't use the word narcissistic, but that's kind of the intention of the sentence. Is that, like, they're calling it their continent. The continent, which is silly when there's clearly probably more.
- [60:23]
Mira
Yeah, yeah, it seems pretty dumb to me to disband your navy, but whatever.
- [60:27]
Kinsey
Yeah. I do want to point out that Rebecca did hint at our Denver Q and A that she has left Easter eggs for interconnected series for her to explore after. So. And that was in reference to the Kraken and pirates thing. And she was like, I'm not telling you guys anything because I leave Easter eggs in there if I want to go back to them and tell a different story. Like, she's also hinted to the four other synopsis that she sent in to her publisher when she submitted the idea for for Fourth Wing and said she was going to explore that after she finishes the series. But that doesn't mean they can't technically coexist in the same universe or cross over or she spins off from this. So just. It could also have something to do with why there was a last Admiral.
- [61:14]
Mira
So true. Oh no.
- [61:16]
Carly
We might not even get answers until the next series. The chapter 19 epigraph reads, quote, the gem given to you upon graduation from Clisbane should always be worn close to the heart. But if you have not mastered your control, it will only amplify your downfall. From chapter three, the canon of the Flyer.
- [61:37]
Kinsey
So this epigraph, I'm going to be honest with you guys. Anytime I see a gemstone, I absolutely spiral. I think it is really notable that Cliffsbane gives their flyers a crystal when they graduate. Because what we know is, at the very least, the citrine that was worn by one of the first Drifts Amplifies lesser magic. So it would make sense that they would want their flyers to have a lesser magic amplifier. So that makes me think maybe the stone that they're given is citrine. Regardless, it tells us that gemstones in this universe do have some sort of ties to, you know, magical properties. But what I find really suspicious about this is why we haven't seen or heard of any flyer having a gemstone on them. Why, if they're told to keep it on them, is that a plot hole or they're told to keep their gemstone secret? I'm not sure. The line specifically should always be worn close to the heart. Makes me wonder, like, why is that specified? Is it a clue that the stone in question that they give the griffin flyers is related to the heart chakra?
- [62:50]
Mira
Ooh.
- [62:51]
Kinsey
And if you look up the crystals related to the heart chakra, Emerald is the only one in that list that is mentioned directly in this series. And I have a very detailed research project you could call it at this point. Google Doc, of all of the gemstones mentioned in the series, and emerald's the only one, so I don't know how that would tie, but clearly you could tell I went on a rabbit hole.
- [63:20]
Mira
Is the heart chakra. What colors represented for the heart chakra? Do you know?
- [63:25]
Kinsey
I noticed. Oh, I didn't look at it long enough, but I noticed that it was pinks and greens.
- [63:29]
Mira
Okay.
- [63:30]
Carly
So interesting.
- [63:30]
Mira
Is it yellow, like citrine? But no.
- [63:32]
Kinsey
And I thought that maybe citrine would be one of them. And I was like, oh, my God, this is gonna be crazy if it is. And it wasn't.
- [63:37]
Mira
They probably have, like, a secret pocket that they have it, like, sewn into would be my guess for the uniform, but.
- [63:43]
Kinsey
Well, then it made me wonder, like, this is kind of assuming that they all get the same one. Like, maybe they give different flyers different ones, depending on their only thing we know right now. Well, they're all lesser magic. Right. But some are more skilled in some things. So, like, is it. Is. Is there a gemstone that amplifies mind work? Yeah, you know, so I'm not sure. Is that why Kat is able to hone her so much? I don't know. And I find that really fascinating, and I really hope that Rebecca leans in. From what I have found of how she's using it currently, there are a lot of signs that she is leaning into integrating crystals into it. That makes me so happy.
- [64:21]
Mira
I'm really excited because we did go down that rabbit hole a little bit together at our Book a break event. So, yes, you guys, I'm, like, sitting.
- [64:29]
Kinsey
On Treasure, if you will.
- [64:31]
Carly
Yeah, it is.
- [64:33]
Kinsey
We're gonna do a whole bonus episode on it and just trying to, like, figure out how to articulate it in a really concise way because there's just so many gems and a lot of different meanings, so. We'll get there.
- [64:43]
Mira
We'll get there. All right. And our final epigraph from chapter 20 reads, Perhaps the point of this is not to deny rebellion, but to only go to war with those you trust implicitly. The Second Uprising of the Crovlin People by Lieutenant Colonel Asher Sorengel.
- [65:01]
Kinsey
So I interpret this as Asher saying that the lesson learned from the second Krevlin uprising is not to discount the effectiveness and use of rebel. This one was unsuccessful, but instead that if you are going to rebel or support a rebellion, you must trust your allies. But I want to point out that Asher is specifically referring to the deal that the Crovlin rebels did not uphold on their end with Unbriel. But Asher did not know at the time what it was that they did not deliver on. And we will be diving into all things Second Corovillan Uprising next episode.
- [65:35]
Mira
We do also see Violet use Asher's advice to only go to war with those you trust implicitly to select her quest squad.
- [65:43]
Kinsey
It's also an example of history repeats itself, because at our current point in the world, no one trusts anyone that they're allying with Navarre. And poor Emil, they couldn't even get together for like. It took days and days and lots of negotiation, and still nobody trusts anyone. Even Cygnisan within poor Meel. None of the islands are trustworthy. So who can anyone trust at this point?
- [66:09]
Carly
It makes me question how Zaden will be remembered in history and how will he and his actions be perceived and how history will portray him.
- [66:19]
Kinsey
Because there's nuance. Okay, well, I do want to add that these were our first Papa Soren Girl epigraphs, and we will be creating and posting guides about him and his research, among other things, over on our Instagram and Patreon. So go check those out if you are interested. Now, take flight with us to the hatching grounds for our Easter eggs. And moments of foreshadowing, including moments that stood out during this reread and may spiral into theories.
- [66:48]
Mira
In chapter 17, we get. First love is irreplaceable. And anyone who's ever dated a writer knows their first priority. Their first love is their dragon. This tells me writers must choose their dragons over anything else. And it foreshadows Zaden choosing to lose his soul to save Sigail, which is insane to me because he could have survived as a Venin without her. But nothing can replace their bond.
- [67:13]
Carly
Regarding Violet's other ex, Violet mentions that she has two exes that her father couldn't stand the first guy, which would be Halden, but that he never knew about the second. I want to know who the second one was. And was he kept secret? The way it's written, it almost makes me feel like maybe he was kept secret. I think the second one is going to be more important in book four and five than Holden was in this book.
- [67:36]
Mira
I personally think that the reason her father didn't know about this ex was because he probably existed in Violet's life after Asher Sorrengail had already died. So I don't really know if she was keeping him a secret from her dad. But it's just he didn't know because he was dead.
- [67:52]
Kinsey
I wonder about the timeline on that. Like, how recent that would have had to be then.
- [67:57]
Mira
Because he knew about Halden for sure. We know from the letter between Lilith and himself. So who knows?
- [68:04]
Carly
I want to know.
- [68:05]
Mira
Me too. I think you're right, though. I think he's definitely going to play an important role.
- [68:09]
Kinsey
Fully agree.
- [68:11]
Carly
Next, when trying to figure out Papa Sortingale's research clue, Riddick asks about Brennan's first love. And Violet says there's nine years between us. It's not like he was filling me in on his romantic exploits. Though I do remember Mira saying he'd been in a relationship with a writer a year or two older than him. Who do we think this could be?
- [68:32]
Kinsey
Naolyn?
- [68:35]
Mira
I will say, though, this quote surprised me because I always thought Naolin would.
- [68:39]
Kinsey
Be older because I've always theorized that it was gonna be Naolen, that he. That they were in love. But I was hesitant because of the age. So I actually did the math here, and I'm really proud of it. So if it is Naolin, that means Naolin would have been about 10 to 11 years older than Violet. She is 21 here. She bonded Taryn at 20. That would make Naolin around 30 or 31. And Taryn had lost his rider five years prior. So Taryn and Naolin would have been bonded approximately five to six years by the time he died. And I think that's actually really sad to think about. You think about how close Taryn and Violet are even after, what, a year and a half at this point? Like, not even that. And Then her and Andarna as well. And the loss of that bond, like, no wonder it impacted Taryn so much.
- [69:32]
Carly
Yeah.
- [69:33]
Mira
Oh, it was literally just two to three years outside of graduation that he died. Like, ugh.
- [69:40]
Carly
Okay, next, we have a moment between Garrick and Imogen. He asks them, you ready to join in second squad? And Imogen responds with, you don't want anything to do with these. And she lifts her hands.
- [69:53]
Mira
Ooh.
- [69:54]
Carly
Is this foreshadowing that she erased Garrick's memory when she erased Violet's?
- [69:59]
Kinsey
Oh, shit.
- [70:01]
Carly
No.
- [70:02]
Kinsey
But she seemed so surprised of where he was. But maybe you're saying she was putting on a front or, like, that he was missing.
- [70:09]
Carly
Well, it also makes me wonder if she can erase her own. Like, maybe she's erased everything, so she also can't be tried for treason.
- [70:15]
Mira
Hey, you can never be depressed if you can just erase the bad stuff.
- [70:18]
Carly
Yeah. Hey, pretty convenient.
- [70:22]
Kinsey
Yeah, but then without the bad, you can't have good to get real cheesy. Okay, so we touched on this briefly. I say briefly, and I went down a rabbit hole with the Chapter 19 epigraph. The aemelion Citrine is a lesser magic amplifier worn by one of the members of the First Drift. So this does show us that they do impact the magic system. So, just like citrine amplifies lesser magic, the various other gemston stones mentioned likely have their own magical properties. But I want to point out that we also know that their value is not limited to magic. As Zaden said, we don't share a currency, but gemstones seem to speak in every language. He said that in Devarelli, a land without magic. So clearly they have a bargaining value. But why do they emit their own sort of magic that does work in a land without magic? Similar to what people utilize crystals for in real life? With their properties? I don't know, but I can't wait to find out.
- [71:21]
Mira
All right, in chapters 17 and 18, we get two more mentions of Zaden having cold eyes, bringing the total count to three. I have an ongoing theory that this is a sign that someone who has turned Venon is on the verge of losing control. In our first quote, we have Zaden looks at Garak in a way I've never seen. Like his best friend has suddenly morphed into prey. And there's that cold edge in his eyes that prickles the hair at the back of my neck. My power rises in response, and I welcome it with open arms, savoring the quick rush of heat and the hum of energy in my veins. Just like last week's quote, Violet noticed one, the coldness in his eyes and felt the prickling at the back of her neck. Additionally, her power did also rise up here, which seems to be something that happens in response to Venon. Thank you, Carly, for noticing that there. And in our second quote, Violet notes, the glacial rage in his eyes has mine widening. And that's it for today's cold eyes. Watch.
- [72:21]
Kinsey
Well, I also want to point out that we've all but gotten confirmation of this from Rebecca, where she says she wanted to use, like, the ice and analogy to show on being on the verge of losing control. And she was talking about it in the context of Venin. I believe she was saying that her sons play hockey and what is it like to, like, skate on ice? What if it's thinning? And how do you handle that? And so I love this analogy.
- [72:46]
Mira
I can't wait to see it increase the more he channels.
- [72:50]
Kinsey
I'm intrigued to see if we can catch anyone else with it.
- [72:53]
Mira
That's what my watch is for. So we're gonna hopefully catch more people. All right. In chapter 18, we get quote, madness. This need between us is always the sweetest madness. He is the craving. I'll never sate the rush. I'll never get enough of only him. Violet's need for Zaden is similar to Yen's need for power. This is either foreshadowing that Violet will turn for love or do literally anything to find Zaden. Because she craves being close to him, she loses all sense of logic when she's around him and is definitely overruled by her emotions.
- [73:27]
Kinsey
Can you blame a girl?
- [73:29]
Mira
Nah, I'd go mad too.
- [73:30]
Carly
Kenzie, the way you describe this is almost like the way Zayden experiences being Venon. So it's almost like both of these things are very uncontrollable to them. Yeah, I like the parallel.
- [73:41]
Mira
It's a good parallel.
- [73:42]
Kinsey
Would it surprise you if I said we were going to talk about the Citrine again? Just kidding. It's actually a slightly different topic. So we actually got to find out the name of the first Drift member, specifically from Zaden, who pointed out was it the plaque that says home of Amelia, first of the Drifts that gave it away? Which is the location that they got the a million Citrine artifact in Samarra. Rebecca did not give us her name like this for no reason. And you best believe that I looked up any other mention of it and there were none. But I did contact Carly and said, are There anagrams. And so it got us spiraling. And I want to point out that I Googled it, and it says that Amelia's Hebrew root is amal, and it means work or industrious. And some interpretations connect it to God's work or working for God.
- [74:50]
Carly
That's very interesting.
- [74:52]
Kinsey
It's so suspicious.
- [74:54]
Mira
Everyone's suspicious.
- [74:55]
Kinsey
It also helps support the theory that the first Griffins and or first riders were somehow working with. With the gods. It's also interesting that the aisles that were drained completely of magic are those dedicated to gods. Also, I noticed that Amelia is awfully close to the word Arisha. Not only is it that you can switch out only two letters to get either word, Carly on FaceTime last night blew some minds.
- [75:33]
Carly
Such a visual.
- [75:34]
Kinsey
She made a visual for us on a whiteboard, which we are going to have her demonstrate for our Patreon members who are watching.
- [75:44]
Mira
Yeah.
- [75:46]
Kinsey
Okay.
- [75:46]
Carly
Prepared.
- [75:47]
Kinsey
You can see. So you're gonna write out the word Amelia. Take off the second hump of the letter M. I don't know that I can do it.
- [75:57]
Carly
Showing you guys.
- [76:01]
Kinsey
Displayed and flashed through the L to make a T, which could mean absolutely nothing except for fucking suspicion. It's so suspicious.
- [76:13]
Mira
All you do is change two lines.
- [76:16]
Kinsey
Do you take a line through the, add it to the T, and it's Amelia and Arisha. And I don't. Like, there's something going on with the names and the similarities. And we've talked time and time again. Our Discord members have had such great conversations about this. It's so interesting how Rebecca uses such similar names for things for, Gosh, I don't know. Llewellyn. Llewellyn is like, yes. Llewellyn's a little more on the nose. So I don't know that we particularly have any theories on what that could mean other than it's just adding it to the suspicious pile from Rebecca.
- [76:50]
Mira
Like, that's suspicious.
- [76:52]
Carly
That's weird.
- [76:53]
Kinsey
That's fucking suspicious.
- [76:56]
Carly
It really is.
- [76:56]
Kinsey
Good job, Carly.
- [76:58]
Carly
Well, I would have never gotten there if you weren't like. You know, it's funny because it's really close to the word Orisha. And so I literally wrote out the word Amelia. And that's when I was like, oh, if I just literally erase this and slash this, it is the word Orisha, which is odd.
- [77:13]
Kinsey
Yeah.
- [77:13]
Carly
Of all of the names it could have been.
- [77:15]
Mira
I feel like that's a simple error to happen in the recording of history to just, like, write it a different way, because you do get actual name changes. Over history, different spellings for names. And I feel like someone down the line could have been dyslexic. I don't know. And they could have.
- [77:32]
Carly
Well, and even just not being able to read somebody's writing.
- [77:35]
Mira
Yeah.
- [77:35]
Carly
Like the way that.
- [77:37]
Kinsey
Like, what would it mean that one of the first drifts had some sort of connection to Orisha?
- [77:42]
Carly
It would possibly mean that to put everything back to how it was, like, if they're gonna go back in history, that Zaden would lose it to whoever is Emelia's heir and that maybe Orisha was really hers.
- [77:54]
Mira
Oh, hell no. I was thinking just about how, like, the Wardstone welcomes the fires, but I feel like they can't just take. I don't want him to lose Oresha.
- [78:04]
Carly
So. Just saying, maybe it's a sign that there was an originally different heir to Orisha and that Nevar took it.
- [78:11]
Kinsey
Well, I also wanted to point out why the fuck her house is five stories. Why is there five levels to her house? So that would make sense that like we were saying, it's just, you know, guys, we spiral like crazy on. We try and make our outlines and our episodes really streamlined because we know you guys are listening for a long time to us. Yeah. But we spiraled about how, like, maybe that was a palace, but, like, wouldn't she have just called it a palace? It's not like they don't have those in this world. So it's just. It was just suspicious. But, you know, it's. There's just something going on.
- [78:47]
Mira
We're gonna tuck this name away and we are gonna remember it in books four and five.
- [78:53]
Carly
We shall see. We have more evidence that Grady was sabotaging. We talked a bit about this last week about how it seems that Grady was intentionally sabotaging his own mission. And we got more evidence to support that. Including the line when Meera says, if I didn't know better, I'd think you were setting the mission up to fail. And also Lieutenant Pugh saying that he and another lieutenant were patrolling north during the mission. And Zaden pointed out that, quote, you were needed above the village. This begs the question, why were they patrolling the wrong place? Did Grady order them to patrol the wrong area? Why would he do that?
- [79:29]
Kinsey
Why would he do that?
- [79:30]
Carly
Yes. Did they have a secret mission going on and it was derailed by aura roasting him?
- [79:37]
Mira
Yeah.
- [79:38]
Kinsey
So he couldn't prepare for that.
- [79:40]
Mira
No.
- [79:41]
Carly
I just have so many questions about this whole thing because it just. Everything about it is very suspicious.
- [79:45]
Mira
And now he's dead and now he's dead.
- [79:48]
Kinsey
It's the same thing with Theophany. So many teases for information and they're just fucking killed off.
- [79:54]
Mira
Speaking of theophany, though.
- [79:56]
Kinsey
Ah, yes. So Theophany leaves a letter for Violet letting her know that she knew Violet's location and could have kidnapped her had she desired, which we now know was possible because Panchec was feeding the Venon information about Violet's whereabouts.
- [80:12]
Mira
Facts.
- [80:15]
Kinsey
Great job, Katie.
- [80:16]
Mira
I added a lot there. When Violet and Taryn fly past the wards in chapter 19, we get a passage where Andarna's voice trails off as the connection is severed. Then Taryn says, quote, we have about 12 hours before you'll start to feel the pain of distance from Andarna. And Violet thinks, I have no desire to test the three to four day limit that riders and their dragons can be apart, nor to suffer the fatal consequences. I think this information was added to foreshadow Andarna breaking her bond, AKA the worst part of the book. With Violet and before this, we did not have a reason to suspect or believe that writers would be in physical pain if there's a distance between them and their dragons. And I think it can also foreshadow the need for Sigail to sever her bond with either Zaden or Taryn, depending on who she decides to leave behind. Because it's painful for them. Even just being in the aisles, it was painful for them to not be able to communicate. So someone is having their bond broken.
- [81:18]
Kinsey
First of all. Don't want to talk about that. But when you said 12 hours, my jaw dropped because like, oh my God.
- [81:24]
Mira
She was gone for 12 hours.
- [81:25]
Kinsey
12 hours.
- [81:27]
Mira
That didn't even hit me until just now. Thank you.
- [81:30]
Kinsey
Yeah, you're literally reading and I said like, jaw on the floor. So, okay, so there was 12 hours that she was missing. But that would have required if it was like a parallel of this. And I don't know that I fully am believing it.
- [81:41]
Mira
And that's just pain. It takes three to four days for them to actually like die.
- [81:48]
Kinsey
I think the 12 hours is more about Violet. Like, what would it do that it would be 12 hours for Zaden, had they unbonded to some incapacity. Or maybe it's more about Taryn. Maybe if the mating bond broke and it had been 12 hours, like, he's now starting to feel it and that's why he went to sleep and like that's now the moment that they wiped memories and she came back. I don't know. I don't like it. I don't want to talk about it anymore.
- [82:13]
Mira
Ah, Rip. Okay, and our last one. So in chapter 20, Drake Cordella takes credit for his Nightwing Drift bringing down the wards in Montserrat last year. However, in the most recent fourth Wing bonus chapter, Zaden is worried about Imogen interacting with Signy fliers, not Nightwing. And Zaden said the attacking flyers were not part of their group. But wouldn't Drake be part of the supportive flyer group?
- [82:46]
Kinsey
You would think, yeah.
- [82:48]
Mira
Especially because Zaden is working very closely with Serena, who is Drake's cousin. So you'd think that naturally he would be on their side. We know that the Nightwing Drift specializes in Fighting Venon. He's from Breivik and stationed at the front, not Cygnison. So why would a Venon fighting Drift attack a Midland Post that's not near the front? And why would he take credit for an attack if it came from an outside group? Were there two separate wings in the area and he just took advantage of the opportunity. Very suspect. And worth mentioning.
- [83:24]
Kinsey
Yeah, worth mentioning because it was a condensed version of how long did we talk about this on facetime last night?
- [83:30]
Mira
Too long.
- [83:30]
Kinsey
I know we mentioned this a lot, but it really comes down to I don't believe him because I spent a lot of time analyzing Zaden's bonus POV, Chapter 27, and he gives three possibilities for who took down the wards. One is the Cygnason flyers. One would be this unnamed enemy, which could have been Cygnisean fliers or Venon, you know, implicitly implied, and then also potentially Dane, which at this point, I don't think I lean that, but there's just suspicious clues. But none of them were that it could be Griffin flyers that were not Cygn. And so it just doesn't make any sense to me. I think I leaned to him claiming it or taking like the opportune moment to like capitalize on what they already saw going on. I don't know if that meant that there were signifiers involved, but like, I don't understand personally why Rebecca would have Easter egged so many different things as options and then none of those were what actually we had this little bit of, I guess, suppose you could call it payoff in this book for. You'd think because it's the most recent bonus chapter that she had written that she would have Easter egged to Drake to Nightwing Drift, not Cygnason specifically. Unless somehow, I don't believe this, but unless somehow Drake is actually a part of the Cygnisan flyers, but he's literally said to be on the Braevic border, so it doesn't make sense. I just. I don't believe him. And I don't believe Rebecca.
- [84:50]
Mira
Yeah, thanks, Rebecca.
- [84:53]
Carly
Fair enough. And finally, let's talk theories. Time for your signet sparring professors to help you hone your farsight and precognition signets.
- [85:03]
Mira
I would like to address my personal rabbit hole for this episode. When Violet first opens the package to view Papa Sorrengail's research, she notices several precautions that he has made to prevent prevent other people from accessing it. Violet notes that quote, if I get the answer wrong, there are six vials of ink spaced equidistantly around the edges of the paper, ready to destroy whatever my father left inside. Even worse, there is a rune in the center that looks suspiciously like the one that would make things end badly if magic tampers with the lock. Definitely need to spend more time studying runes. Uh, how does her dad know about runes? Like, as far as we know, only the Tirish know about them, and you need access to magic to make a rune. So, yeah, sure, he could have done his research and he could have found the rune that he needed. But did he make the runes himself? Or did he enlist the help of a rider like Lilith or a flyer? Could someone like Lilith, who presumably has never made a rune before, successfully make a complex rune like this with no practice whatsoever? Or did he turn to an Eretian master to help him? Which would be really messed up because this would mean that a he knew about Orisha still existing after the rebellion. And while in Orisha, they were hiding Brennan from him because he still believed Brennan to be dead.
- [86:31]
Kinsey
I don't think that'd be messed up. I've always theorized that he was actually working for the revolution. I love that idea. So let's throw that in there.
- [86:37]
Mira
So do you think he alive or like that Papa Sor and Gail knew that he was alive?
- [86:42]
Kinsey
Well, I actually don't know which either way if I would like that or not. But I think that he could have easily not met up in person and could have been communicating with Aerai and not known that it was alive.
- [86:53]
Mira
Oh my gosh, that's horrible. Well, all right. So this is where I really started to spiral. Because then I was like, all right, well, if Pop is Soren Gilbert didn't have anyone to help him and he made the rune himself, therefore using lesser magic without channeling from a dragon, then the only other conclusion could be that he is a Venon and then I was like, oh, my God. Though it makes so much sense, because how many times do we see that Venin are super fast and they suddenly disappear and travel long distances? And this could explain how maybe he was able to travel to and from the Isles without having anyone get suspicious about where he's gone. Otherwise, his journeys would take weeks, and people would definitely notice his absence. And from his epigraphs, we know that he went more than once because he has multiple titles. Like, he. He goes through promotions. This takes place over a long period of time. So he went more than once, and nobody from Navarre is even supposed to be there at all. So how is he doing this without having anybody notice he's going? Unless he's, like, somehow distant distance. I don't know.
- [88:03]
Kinsey
I really like that theory. I don't think that all Venon can distance wield, though. I will.
- [88:09]
Mira
He could know someone who did. But also, this could also explain why he was obsessed with the plants on the Hidatas. Wisdom Island. We know for a fact it does change their eye color. And there are theories going around that maybe they're using that to conceal their real eye color, which is pretty sure.
- [88:27]
Kinsey
That'S one of Carly's.
- [88:28]
Mira
No, no, it's fact.
- [88:30]
Carly
Yeah.
- [88:30]
Kinsey
Oh.
- [88:30]
Hannah
Oh, yeah.
- [88:31]
Kinsey
Oh, cool.
- [88:31]
Carly
That's not my theory.
- [88:32]
Mira
Yeah, their eyes could be red, like a venom, and maybe that's why they're eating the plants, to change their eye color. But that also makes me wonder, why would he turn in the first place? And why not just give Violet the direct answers for a weapon against the venom? Like, he's like, here are all the plants you need to know, but I'm not gonna, like, tell you which one or why.
- [88:54]
Kinsey
I don't even know what point you respond to. That's all brilliant. I want to know. So you do think he was using those plants to conceal his eye color. Would that not have been something you think that, like, Violet would have commented about? His eye color being different was there.
- [89:07]
Mira
And I could be totes wrong, because I'm not there yet on my reread, but she did make a comment on the color, and I think she had said something about the way her dad had described her. I don't know. There was, like, some kind of connection between her dad.
- [89:21]
Carly
They had similarly hazel eyes, I believe.
- [89:24]
Kinsey
Like a blue green. How hers switches between blue green. Hmm.
- [89:28]
Mira
Hmm.
- [89:29]
Carly
It's all suspicious.
- [89:31]
Kinsey
I agree. Wouldn't it have changed his eyes to be different than hers? Or she would also have to have had the same effect from Whatever it.
- [89:38]
Mira
Was as well, he presumably would have started eating this plant like when she was a toddler. So I don't think she would know what his real eye color would be. I don't think she'd notice a change.
- [89:50]
Carly
Right.
- [89:50]
Kinsey
I'm saying they genetically had the same eye color. So. Well, he's dead now, but as she grew up and later after that point, they had the same eye color. So if you're saying it would have changed his eye color and his wasn't blue green, then that would imply that violet's also isn't from genetics and that hers is blue green because she was also eating it or something.
- [90:08]
Mira
I mean, Violet also has the silver hair, which is like a weird coloration too. I don't know.
- [90:14]
Kinsey
Yeah, but we know the reason for that. I'm just trying to follow what your theory is on the eye color part. I love it. I think it's great. I just.
- [90:21]
Mira
Do we know what color Lilith's eyes are? I mean, we know that Brennan has amber eyes. I don't know what color Mira's eyes are.
- [90:29]
Kinsey
I'm not sure. I think it could be really cool if we find out that he had some sort of eye color change. I think there's this genetic. At least that's what we're led to believe. So you would think it would be like she wouldn't call them the example.
- [90:42]
Mira
But who's supposed to say too that like, that could have been his eye color before and his DNA Venon red eyes plant back to normal.
- [90:52]
Kinsey
Oh, okay. So I was thinking in terms of how they're doing, like the blue plant turns the red eyes purple. But you think he might have found. That's cool. I also was wondering why the heck he was able to get over there.
- [91:07]
Mira
Like, what was his excuse? Because no one from Navarre is supposed to be over there. And like that's.
- [91:12]
Kinsey
But he's also a researcher. But then he would have to turn that over to Navarre. Right.
- [91:16]
Mira
To get to the farther aisles. That would take forever. He went multiple times.
- [91:21]
Kinsey
That calls back to the question for me. Or the line that he said, I wrote it to be read by others, but understood by you. He could have gotten away by saying, oh, I'm going to research all these plants and stuff as a scribe. Like, he probably got time off to go research and wrote it in a way that no one would really know, except for to know what you're looking for. And it just was incomplete. So it didn't have to be turned over is how I would imagine. Or I mean, regardless it didn't have to be turned over because he hid it on those islands. So I think he could have used the research excuse. I think that would explain it. I have a harder time believing that he could have distance wielded because I don't think that that's a common. I don't know. I don't know that I want him to be vented, but I do think it's really notable. I like that view.
- [92:05]
Mira
I'm just like, why? That's what it goes down to. And he's dead, so why does it matter? But.
- [92:10]
Kinsey
Well, I think it's important to consider why he had that rune on there and how.
- [92:14]
Mira
Yeah, the rune is what caused the entire spiral. And I was like, wait, you guys didn't even have anything to say about the rune?
- [92:20]
Kinsey
I just kind of thought, like, oh, he knew about runes because he's a researcher. He knows the top of it, right? Like, he got let in the fold. So he knows about the history of runes.
- [92:29]
Carly
Yeah, but if he found a way to get to Deverelli, though, he would have had to go probably similar path. He told Violet go to Cordon and then go to Devorelli.
- [92:39]
Kinsey
So maybe a flyer helped him.
- [92:40]
Carly
Well, cause I've always won two. If we're gonna find out that he had previous. Like, how he got to those islands to do the research was by making a deal with Tokares and Tarkarys would know flyers and runes and people who could help him with that kind of thing.
- [92:53]
Mira
So, yeah, I noticed that in Iron Flame, the only people who didn't have to attend the runes class were the Orishan Riders. The flyers were also learning. So I don't think that the flyers do know about runes, which is surprising. Cause you think that they would. Or at least they weren't taught how in their school because Cat was there learning with them. They were all at that class together.
- [93:16]
Carly
Well, then maybe somebody in Orisha did help him with the rune. It would be interesting if you're right, though, that maybe he was corresponding with Brennan and didn't even know it.
- [93:24]
Mira
That's messy.
- [93:26]
Carly
I love it.
- [93:27]
Kinsey
Which would mean Brennan knew.
- [93:29]
Mira
Oh, I mean, he knew.
- [93:31]
Kinsey
It would really change the context of the comments that they've made to Brennan about their dad. Didn't Violet blame him to his face at one point about, you know, he died because you left us.
- [93:42]
Mira
Oh, it's messy. It's messy.
- [93:46]
Carly
I have a theory about Riddick.
- [93:49]
Kinsey
Do tell.
- [93:50]
Carly
So I know I've talked before about how I notice how much Riddick has a tendency to care for and take care of Violet more so than even his other squad mates. And he's always checking on her. I have theorized in the past, I'm like, I wonder if he had feelings for Violet. I don't think that's where I'm leaning towards anymore. I think Riddick was in love with Liam.
- [94:11]
Mira
I say love.
- [94:13]
Kinsey
Oh, who wouldn't be?
- [94:15]
Carly
He has this line in the book that he talks about how you can still love someone after you let them go. I think he's referring to Liam because, like, this whole thing about him wanting to be on Quest Squad, to be with her and stay with her and take care of her. I think it's upholding that promise he made to Liam. When Liam's like, guard her like, you're me. She's, like, asking him, like, why? He's like, I just need to go. And he finally breaks down about how ever since ATH being one of us has been by your side, he wasn't in an ATH being. He lost Liam. He doesn't want to lose Violet. He doesn't want that loss to be in vain. So I think he was in love with Liam. I'm not sure that Liam knew or that they were together, but I think he was actually in love with Liam and that this is him honoring his memory.
- [95:06]
Kinsey
Well, that's fucking sad.
- [95:08]
Carly
Yeah.
- [95:09]
Mira
So, RIP.
- [95:11]
Kinsey
So I want to talk about Violet's mother's journals and how we got, like, limited payoff of those in this book. When she had just opened up her dad's research, Violet thought to herself, I want to read it all instantly, yet simultaneously limit myself to a single line so I can save another for tomorrow and then the day after, like I have with my mother's journals. I could make it last, keep him with me as long as possible, but I need the knowledge now. So I lift the book into my lap and begin. Which is explaining, like, she's doesn't really have that option with this, but it's telling us that she. She's not reading her mother's journals. And so it's important information. And it points to the fact that, like, there's something in her mother's journals that Violet is not going to find out until later because she's only reading a single line a day. So I had that in here, and I was like, that, I think is. Is gonna happen. But then in chapter 20, Mira says, but it looks like I'll have time to read the next volume in that series you love. And Violet thinks, Mom's Journals. So Mira's reading them, but Violet's not. And I'm wondering if Mira is going to read something that she may or has already read, something that she may end up keeping from Violet.
- [96:35]
Mira
It goes back to that award detail, like what we were talking about at the epigraph. I think that she's gonna see her mom writing about Mira and the award that she lost. And that's gonna give Violet reason to not trust Meera. Perhaps.
- [96:53]
Kinsey
Okay, so you're actually thinking that Violet will eventually read something in her journals that indicates she shouldn't trust Mira?
- [96:59]
Mira
Unless, because Mira is already reading these journals, she could just tear up the pages and remove, like, incri. Evidence that her mother has written down. Like, that's what I'm interpreting here, from what you pointed out.
- [97:11]
Kinsey
Oh, my God.
- [97:13]
Mira
Like, if Mira's reading.
- [97:14]
Kinsey
Oh, my gods. Oh, my gods, oh, my gods.
- [97:17]
Carly
Well, we get foreshadowing for that, right? Because Jindia talks about having journals with pages ripped out, and she's like, I can't. I can't read what I don't have. Like, when she's, like, trying to do research for Quest Squad. What if Mira does the same thing to Violet?
- [97:29]
Mira
Oh, my gosh, Hannah, you're right.
- [97:32]
Kinsey
I cannot trust Mira. This shit is gonna happen. I cannot wait to talk about, like, that bracelet that the grandma gives her. I have not trusted. I know. I'm, like, trying so hard. I have not trusted Mira since this whole thing. And she's so jealous throughout this book and has some sort of, like, animosity toward Violet about how her dad has this mission and goal for Violet to achieve a purpose. And Brennan was Lilith's favorite child, so she's, like, feeling gypped in some capacity. If she's, like, reading her mom's journals and they're journals, like, unfiltered thought. Yeah. You know, we were led to believe that it has something to do with Violet getting her dad's research and the shopkeeper specifically saying it was for Violet. We kind of thought that the animosity was from that. But maybe. Maybe Mira has already read something in her mom's journals that is actually what triggered her to go visit her grandmother and is actually, you know, to explain all of this Animosity.
- [98:33]
Mira
Meera, I'm watching you.
- [98:35]
Kinsey
Well, also, there's a reason that she survived that throat slit. I'm just saying.
- [98:40]
Mira
Which, unfortunately, she did bleed, so she's not on our blood watch.
- [98:43]
Kinsey
She did. And again. And I don't think she's vented. I just think she is not gonna be a good character. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying, like, evil or villain, but, like, definitely not a safe, trustworthy character.
- [98:58]
Mira
I only trust Violet at this point.
- [99:00]
Kinsey
You know what's so funny? I just got a tornado. Watch. What? Oh, my God.
- [99:05]
Mira
Theophany's coming.
- [99:07]
Carly
Are you okay? And flying?
- [99:09]
Kinsey
I think so. It's not even, like, raining right here. Yeah, I had a whole tornado warning the other day on my phone, and there was a whole bunch of them coming through the center. Anyways, she might not be Venon, but she's not a good.
- [99:19]
Carly
We don't trust her.
- [99:20]
Kinsey
Nope, nope.
- [99:21]
Carly
No trust.
- [99:22]
Mira
So the desiccated village outside of Samarra reminded Violet of a sand castle. You know what else has sand? The isles.
- [99:33]
Kinsey
Great analysis there. Thank you.
- [99:35]
Mira
Thanks. There's no magic, and most of the isles are void of color. We see this in their clothing, their plants, etc. We have said this a few times now, but I'm once again reiterating that I believe the isles were definitely drained by Vennon at one point. And their offspring, who ruined the isles, are currently healing the land, just like the Irids had suggested. So I just thought it was interesting that Violet saw this desiccated village and connected it to a sandcastle. And then later on, we go to the isles.
- [100:08]
Kinsey
So, yeah, when I read that the isles were, like, ashen, almost not ashen, but, like, devoid of color. Yeah, drained.
- [100:16]
Mira
For sure.
- [100:16]
Kinsey
They were drained.
- [100:17]
Mira
I was suspicious. But I love.
- [100:18]
Kinsey
Cause I was like, why is it keeping some of its color? Cause I kind of just felt like they were drained, but to that point. But no, we know that the draining is, like, a med. So it's actually, like. It's revitalizing. Is that the word I'm looking for? Reviving?
- [100:31]
Mira
Yeah. And, like, the ocean's colorful. It's just the land that's not.
- [100:38]
Kinsey
So is the sky. Does the ocean also have magic?
- [100:43]
Mira
Maybe if you're a Kraken rider.
- [100:45]
Kinsey
That's the. Yeah, the Kraken writer. I mean, if she's gonna make the. The land and the sky have a magic source. Like, maybe the ocean actually is.
- [100:58]
Mira
Maybe Heaton will come into play later.
- [101:00]
Kinsey
I'm saying some point. Like, I really thought with the isles, we were gonna.
- [101:04]
Carly
Yeah, well, do we think that's the real reason why Unbriel wants dragon eggs? Because if they hatch, it changes the magic, and maybe it'll restore magic to their island.
- [101:15]
Mira
I didn't think about that. Why don't they just, like, let them Borrow the dragon eggs. Like, we'll let you, like, hatch here, but then we're gonna, like, take them back.
- [101:24]
Kinsey
Well, I mean, at least I read a little bit ahead of that part. And it. They want them because they're malleable. They want to control the dragons. So there's, like, ulterior motives. I'm not disagreeing with you. I think you both think it's gonna be true. But I'm just responding to why they wouldn't let them borrow them and just like.
- [101:38]
Carly
Well, but I just wonder how they expect, like, without magic, like, to be able to bond them and do all that stuff, like, because no one else has access to their dragons other than Violet, so it's like. It's not.
- [101:47]
Kinsey
Maybe they don't expect a bond. Maybe they expect domination. I mean, there's other books where it's like, you don't have that telepathic communication, and it's more like having a pet.
- [101:56]
Mira
I feel like the Irids would step in, though.
- [101:59]
Kinsey
Yeah, you would think.
- [102:00]
Carly
I mean, dragons get so big. I don't know what they think they're gonna. How they're gonna control that. Like, I can barely control my dog, and he's not a dragon.
- [102:07]
Kinsey
I'm not saying it's rational.
- [102:09]
Carly
I just think that there might be something about the fact of, like, turning the islands into hatching grounds and transforming the magic, because we know that that's what happens. If it would help return magic to their island. And that's specifically why they want eggs.
- [102:20]
Mira
Yeah.
- [102:21]
Kinsey
Not to derail us entirely, but I just find it super intriguing that these islands were drained of their magic and now they're dedicated to a God. Did those people, they were all Venon, and then they, like the ancestors, dedicated themselves to that God, which we know only two can technically be dedicated, but we don't know if that's always been the case. Maybe some God said, I'm no longer allowing dedication. Are those ancestors to be able to not be vented? Did they dedicate themselves and say, this whole island is in honor of you. We need to revive our land. Please help us. And the God agreed in the name of having the island dedicated to them.
- [103:01]
Mira
It's just weird because Devarelli doesn't have a specific God that is dedicated to their island.
- [103:08]
Carly
I personally think there's going to be an additional interesting twist about why the islands don't have magic. I don't think it's just the venengrating it. And if it is, I think there's going to be an interesting reason why or something. But that's a whole rabbit hole.
- [103:20]
Mira
All right. And finally, in chapter 20, we get a lovely moment where Meera knees Drake straight in the groin immediately after meeting him.
- [103:31]
Kinsey
So lovely.
- [103:32]
Mira
I think that won't be the last time Meera is near his groin. If you catch my nightwing, dr.
- [103:44]
Kinsey
I'm.
- [103:44]
Mira
So sorry for that pun. They're gonna fuck.
- [103:51]
Kinsey
I love a good.
- [103:54]
Carly
Oh, well, thank you for clarifying.
- [104:02]
Kinsey
I love a good pun. And that one was fantastic. I was like, where is he going with this? Like, why is this. No, that's perfection.
- [104:11]
Mira
That's where my brain goes.
- [104:13]
Kinsey
That's some of your best work right there.
- [104:14]
Mira
Thank you. I've been saving that in all episode.
- [104:19]
Kinsey
My Nightwing Drift. Even Drift would have been a great pun. But you just. I know.
- [104:26]
Mira
I was just gonna do the drift. But then like, once we were like, oh my God, Signi. Nightwing. What is it? And I was like, I gotta say nightwing.
- [104:33]
Kinsey
God, that's so good. Yeah, no, I think you're right.
- [104:37]
Mira
Yeah, I'm for it. I'm all for it. Enemies to lovers. Let's go.
- [104:43]
Carly
Well, on that note, that wraps up our Deep Dive episode of Onyx Storm chapters 17 through 20. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to join us for our next episode where we will deep dive into chapters 21 through 24 and to subscribe wherever you are listening.
- [104:58]
Kinsey
Just a quick reminder, you can access all of our episodes a day early, sometimes more. More ad free and full video with the option of audio only over on our Patreon for our Tier 2 Dragon Riders and Tier 3 Feather Tales. Our Feather Tales also have the added perks of a shout out during our first episode. After you join PDF resources, which include Carly's weekly Onyx Storm annotations and more.
- [105:21]
Mira
You can check out our Patreon linked in the show notes to see all of the perks across our three tiers. We also offer a base tier for general support donations as well.
- [105:29]
Carly
Well, and if Patreon isn't for you, there are still plenty of ways to support us. Leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify subscribing, recommending us to your fellow Empyrean readers and simply tuning in each episode all go so far.
- [105:40]
Kinsey
And if you haven't already, check out our first season chapters by Chapters Deep Dive on Fourth Wing through the Lens of Iron Flame. And our Onyx storm Prep Season 2 is packed full of Empyrean theories that could still come to fruition in books four and five.
- [105:55]
Mira
As always, we encourage you to email us all of your thoughts, theories and suggestions. Feel free to DM us on Instagram or join us over on our free Discord Group chat. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review it would mean the world to us.
- [106:08]
Kinsey
Until next time, Dearest fantasy readers, prepare yourselves for a trip to the turquoise isles of Deverelli as we continue our journey through the Empyrean series.
- [106:20]
Mira
Yay. I'll bring my sunscreen.
- [106:27]
Kinsey
The Last Admirable Whoa, what am I saying? Admirable. Admiral.
- [106:31]
Mira
Admiral.
- [106:32]
Kinsey
I know. I don't know what I'm trying to say.
- [106:33]
Carly
You keep saying admirable.
- [106:35]
Kinsey
Yes, okay. The Last Admiral. A mem. Fucking hell. This word is hard.
- [106:44]
Hannah
Marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, out cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.