Ep 8 Onyx Storm: Breaking Down Top Theories & Predictions PART 3

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: Dear Fantasy Reader – Ep 8 Onyx Storm: Top Theories & Predictions PART 3

Podcast Information:

• Title: Dear Fantasy Reader
• Hosts: Hannah, Karly, and Kinsey
• Current Season: Season 2: Onyx Storm Prep
• Episode Title: Ep 8 Onyx Storm: Top Theories & Predictions PART 3
• Release Date: January 17, 2025

---

1. Introduction to Onyx Storm Theories

The hosts, Hannah, Karly, and Kinsey, kick off the episode by welcoming listeners to their latest installment focused on building anticipation for Onyx Storm, the upcoming book in Rebecca Yarros’ Empyrean series. This episode marks the culmination of their "Onyx Storm Prep" mini-season, where they delve into intricate theories and character analyses to set the stage for the new release.

Notable Quote:

Hannah [01:27]: "As Rebecca Yarros says, readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please take note and prepare to enter Baz Gore College."

2. Lilith's Journals and Their Significance

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the newly revealed Lilith's Journals. The hosts speculate whether these journals will shed light on the origin of the Venin, alliances, and hidden histories within the Empyrean series.

Key Points:

• Rank Analysis: Hannah breaks down Lilith’s military rank, deducing the timeframe and potential events documented in her journals.
• Listener Contribution: A listener named Valkyrie Tales and Trails contributes a quote from Iron Flame, hinting at Lilith’s intentions and knowledge regarding the Venin.
• Theories on Venin Knowledge: Karly and Kinsey debate whether the journals contain pre-Venin information or recent discoveries about the Venin threat.

Notable Quote:

Hannah [05:07]: "We have made it to our most anticipated episode yet, Onyx Storm Theories Part 3 where we are covering the following Lilith's Journals."

3. Garak's Signet: Size Wielding vs. Emotional Sensing

The trio delves into the mysterious signet of Garak, exploring whether he is a size wielder (ability to manipulate size) or possesses a signet related to emotional sensing.

Key Points:

• Initial Theory: Hannah initially posits that Garak could be a distance wielder, capable of teleportation-like abilities.
• Counter-Theory: Karly introduces an alternative theory suggesting Garak might be a size wielder, supported by in-universe clues such as custom-sized daggers and Garak’s interactions.
• Supporting Evidence: References to Garak’s survival instincts and interactions where he senses others' emotions reinforce the size wielder theory.

Notable Quotes:

Kinsey [12:59]: "I'm absolutely convinced that Garak is a size wielder and that the desert island joke was just a dick joke."

Carly [18:48]: "Well, if he is a size wielder, it solves a lot of weird issues for us."

4. Bode's Potential Betrayal and Hidden Abilities

Bode emerges as a focal point of speculation, with the hosts discussing his loyalty and possible hidden motives within the storyline.

Key Points:

• Signet Countering: Carly theorizes that Bode’s ability to counter signets might indicate hidden intentions, potentially aiming to betray Zaden.
• Family Lineage: Kinsey connects Bode’s actions and relationships to his family background, suggesting a possible drive for power or throne inheritance.
• Fan Theories: References to fan contributions and social media interactions bolster the theory of Bode’s possible betrayal.

Notable Quotes:

Carly [19:11]: "I have this running theory that Bode might betray Xaden."

Kinsey [27:41]: "I kind of think that there is a betrayal coming from Bode originally."

5. The Origin and Moral Complexity of the Venin

The conversation shifts to the origins of the Venin, exploring their transformation from potential heroes to antagonists and the role of dragons in their creation.

Key Points:

• Fables Interpretation: Kinsey analyzes the fables within the books, deducing that the Venin were created from the ambitions and actions of a jealous sibling.
• Dragons' Role: The hosts discuss the contentious relationship between humans and dragons, suggesting dragons may have indirectly led to the creation of the Venin.
• Moral Gray Areas: Acknowledgment that the Venin are portrayed as complex villains with sympathetic backstories, aligning with Rebecca Yarros’ writing style.

Notable Quotes:

Kinsey [28:10]: "The Venin were never our continent from the very beginning; they were allowed to live here."

Hannah [33:05]: "Rebecca Yarros is going to give us an excellent villain."

6. The Cure: Restoring Balance to the Magic System

A pivotal segment discusses the potential cure for the Venin and how it might involve a harmonious balance of signets.

Key Points:

• Magic Restoration: Kinsey theorizes that the cure involves restoring the magic system to its original state, possibly through the combined efforts of different signets.
• Signet Counterbalance: The idea that signets like power, control, and nullification need to counterbalance each other to achieve the cure.
• Collaborative Efforts: Suggestions that characters like Sloane and Brennan might play crucial roles in developing the cure through their unique signets.

Notable Quotes:

Kinsey [35:34]: "The cure has to do with restoring balance to the magic system."

Carly [40:46]: "I also think Darna's scorpion tail venom could possibly be used to create the anti-venom."

7. Zaden's Evolving Signet Abilities

Zaden’s signet abilities are scrutinized, with the hosts debating whether his powers extend beyond reading intentions to actual thoughts.

Key Points:

• Intentions vs. Thoughts: Hannah argues that Zaden demonstrates the ability to read actual thoughts, not just intentions, citing specific scenes from Fourth Wing and Iron Flame.
• Signet Evolution: The theory that Zaden’s signet will evolve as he gains more control and understanding, potentially unlocking full mind-reading capabilities.
• Author Confirmation: Reference to Rebecca Yarros’ interview where she hints at Zaden’s evolving abilities, reinforcing the theory.

Notable Quotes:

Hannah [69:45]: "Zaden's intrinsic ability is not limited to intentions and that he just doesn't have the tools as it stands, or the understanding to realize that it is more than intentions."

Carly [75:36]: "When Zaden and Violet are being intimate, Violet thinks to herself, 'I'm not going to survive this. I'm going to die right here in this bed.' And Zaden responds out loud, 'I'm going to die with you.'"

8. Rapid Fire Theories: Quick Speculations on Various Characters

In the final segment, the hosts share a series of rapid-fire theories based on their instincts and interpretations of character behaviors and lore.

Key Points:

• Papa Sorengale's Research: Carly believes that Papa Sorengale’s research is hidden within Violet’s other books, paralleling earlier folklore elements.
• Felix as a Truthsayer: A theory that Felix possesses truthsayer abilities, enabling Violet to confide in him about sensitive information.
• Professor Devera's Mind Signet: Speculation that Professor Devera has a mind signet, allowing her to anticipate student actions and spread propaganda.
• Vyronan Dragons in Plain Sight: Kinsey suggests that dragons from Indarna’s Den are disguising themselves within other dragon breeds across different regions.
• Mira and Serena as Enemies-to-Lovers: A romantic twist where adversarial relationships between Mira and Serena evolve into romantic connections.
• Zaden and Violet’s Bond: The hosts discuss the depth of Zaden and Violet’s bond, contemplating whether it functions as a fated mates system or evolves into a more profound connection.

Notable Quotes:

Kinsey [99:55]: "Felix is a truthsayer and that is why Violet told him the feathertail secrets."

Hannah [50:13]: "Their bond can exist outside of the dragons, allowing them to communicate even when Violet is dosed with the serum."

9. Closing Thoughts and Future Content

The episode concludes with the hosts expressing their excitement for the upcoming book and encouraging listeners to engage with additional content such as recaps, deep dives, and bonus episodes available through various platforms. They also invite listeners to share their theories and support the podcast through reviews and social media interactions.

Notable Quote:

Hannah [110:13]: "Until next time, Dearest fantasy readers, prepare yourselves to have Onyx Storm in your hands so so soon as we continue our journey through the Empyrean series."

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Conclusion

In this comprehensive episode, Hannah, Karly, and Kinsey dissect Onyx Storm's intricate plotlines, character motivations, and magical systems, providing listeners with a deep understanding and speculative insights into the upcoming book. From analyzing Lilith’s Journals and Garak’s signet to unraveling the moral complexities of the Venin and Zaden’s evolving abilities, the hosts offer a treasure trove of theories that enrich the reading experience. The rapid-fire segment further engages fans by presenting a multitude of speculative scenarios, ensuring that listeners are well-prepared and excited for the release of Onyx Storm.

Stay Connected:

• Subscribe to Dear Fantasy Reader for weekly deep dives and theory sessions.
• Follow on social media and join the Discord community for real-time discussions.
• Support the podcast by leaving reviews and exploring Patreon for exclusive content.

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Note: The timestamps provided in this summary correspond to the original transcript and highlight where key discussions and quotes occur within the episode.

Transcript

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[Hannah]

Expires in six months I'm Hannah. I'm Carly oh Dearest Fantasy readers, welcome to the Dear Fantasy Reader Podcast where we travel through the pages of our favorite Romantasy novels, exploring characters, scenes, theories, foreshadowing and more. I'm Hannah.

[Carly]

I'm Kinsey.

[Kinsey]

And I'm Carly.

[Carly]

Join us as we take flight into the world of the Empyrean series where we are currently in our Onyx Storm Prep era.

[Kinsey]

With that content warning and spoiler alert, we will be covering anything and everything Empyrean series to this date and any content Rebecca Yarros has given us. So if you haven't read both already, save this podcast. Go do that and we will be here waiting when you are done.

[Carly]

Also, due to the nature of these books, this podcast is rated R in content and in language.

[Hannah]

As Rebecca Yarros says, readers who may be sensitive to these elements, please take note and prepare to enter Baz Gore College. We have made it to our most anticipated episode yet, onyx storm theories part 3 where we are covering the following Lilith's Journals. Wait, is that a new edition? Yes. Garak Bodhi the Gods Venon marked one's second signet Xaden Theories, including both signets and a possible third, the meaning behind the title Onyx Storm, Violet and Zaden's Relationship and then a wrap Rapid Fire Miscellaneous theories based solely on Vibe's portion. To wrap us up before we dive into all of that, since this is our last planned episode of this mini season of Onyx Storm Prep, let's talk briefly about our next season coverage of Onyx Storm. We will likely be releasing our first Chapters by Chapters episode in late February. But don't worry, we are reading Onyx Storm immediately, immediately and we'll be seeing an episode on our first reactions very soon after and an episode on our experience seeing Rebecca Yarros on her Onyx Storm tour in Denver. Keep an eye out on Patreon discord and socials for more content as well. And we will update our release schedule for our Onyx Storm deep dive in our Discord and Instagram as soon as we know how many chapters we will be covering and how we'd like to split it up. We're going to start with Lilith's journal and if you don't know what we're talking about because this was a new addendum as of today, Rebecca posted what seems to be an epigraph teaser from Onyx Storm that revealed that Violet has her mom's General Sorrengale's personal journals. At least one. But I'm going to assume if she got one, she's got more. It reads, quote, sometimes diplomacy is best served at sword point. Journal of Captain Lilith Sorengale. End quote. That is. Wow. Okay. Woke up to that this morning.

[Carly]

Captain.

[Hannah]

Her rank as Captain tells us that this journal for one is from years ago. Because Captain, I had to look this up. Guys, I do not pretend to know much about military ranking, but is five ranks under General. So it goes General, Lieutenant General, Major General. I'm going to butcher this word. Brigadier. How do you say that?

[Carly]

Guys, I don't even know what you're trying to say.

[Hannah]

Version of General, Colonel, and then Captain. So that's way back. I am assuming that Rebecca goes based off of army because her husband is retired army.

[Kinsey]

I'm sorry, it's Brigadier General.

[Hannah]

Ah, see, that's not even that hard.

[Kinsey]

I was just letting you. I wasn't even reading. I was just letting you take me along so I had to go find him. And it's Brigadier.

[Hannah]

Thank you.

[Kinsey]

You're welcome.

[Hannah]

We do know that she became Commanding General at Bisgaeth about five years ago. It says it was the year after the rebellion, so I can't imagine like how long five ranks ago would have been for her, but. So that's what it tells us about the time frame. But there is more to this rank that one of our listeners pointed out in our Discord shout out to Valkyrie tales and trails. Who found this quote from Lilith to Violet in Iron Flame. I might be a stranger to you, Violet, but you are far from a stranger to me. Eventually you'd discover the truth. Maybe not while in the scribe quadrant, but certainly by the time you made Captain or major, when Markham would start bringing you into the fold, as we do with most at those ranks, and then you would unravel everything in the name of mercy or whatever emotion you'd blame. And they would kill you for it.

[Kinsey]

So this has to be right around when they brought her in.

[Hannah]

So the question that Valkyrie Tales and Trails prompted us in the discord, which is a fair question. It's kind of what I was prompting before we'd seen that quote, is, are these journals possibly going to have information about the Venin? Is this so far back that Lilith didn't know yet and we get to see her pre Venin information, or is this telling us, which I think I agree with, that she recently found out and she could be journaling about it.

[Carly]

I think it takes place after. And I don't know if she's going to also kind of lead us to Papa Sorrengale's research as well. But I do think that these journals will be key and it'll explain some things that we're just waiting to find out. Because you have to think, like, she cares most about her family more than anything. So she probably was just like, oh, who needs diplomacy? Let's just go in with our swords out. Like, I don't care about this other country. We're just going to protect ourselves from the Venin. That's at least the vibe I got.

[Hannah]

Do either of you recall what rank Lilith was when she had the red eyes the night that Violet got scared of her?

[Kinsey]

I don't know that we know.

[Carly]

Yeah. I don't.

[Hannah]

I'm very curious.

[Kinsey]

She was a child at that point. I know she was very young.

[Hannah]

I'm very curious on the timeline for that. Hmm.

[Kinsey]

That'd be interesting.

[Hannah]

Really? It makes me wonder how many journals Violet does get. Because I really am hoping, like, clearly this one's indicated to be far back, but I'm really hoping for one during the time of the rebellion. And following it. I would love to get some insight about Papa Sorengil's death. Time frame. I want a book on Lilith's journals, but I do want to point out that clearly the journals were not burned in a ritual for Malik. If Violet has her hands on these, or clearly Jessenia does. If this is an epigraph, as I believe it is, which I'm so excited about because I theorized last season that Violet was going to find out more information while sorting through her mother's things after she passed, I don't know if it would be, like, three of them giving her the opportunity to, like, go say goodbye. Or maybe she did it on her own, similar to how she did it with Liam's letters first. If she'd even known that they were there. I don't know. But I just can't help but think about how much information is in a single journal for her. So it's just like, the possibilities are endless.

[Carly]

All the secrets of Navarre, they're all in there.

[Kinsey]

I'm sure we'll get them all immediately at the very beginning of Onyx Storm.

[Carly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the only epigraph we actually ended up getting based on how Rebecca likes to roll.

[Kinsey]

I wouldn't be surprised if the epigraphs we do get just leave us with more questions than answers without adult sounds about Rebecca.

[Hannah]

Sounds about Rebecca. Oh, you've caught on. That's, like, my new favorite catchphrase.

[Kinsey]

We were really having fun with it a couple episodes ago, me and Hannah.

[Hannah]

All right, on to our next topic. Garruk. Boy, am I excited for this one.

[Kinsey]

Me too.

[Hannah]

We're gonna start off with the signet because it is mysteriously never mentioned that we know of. Right. So I've been working with the theory that Garak was a distance wielder, but have since been bullied into changing my theory. I can't even hold a straight face with that. Just kidding.

[Kinsey]

We're theory bullies, Kenzie and I.

[Hannah]

You know, they're just that good, right? Like, I've been kindly convinced otherwise. But distance wielding, if you are not familiar, is the ability to basically teleport moving through space to be in another place. The most compelling evidence for my. My prior belief that he was a distance wielder was from Rebecca Yarros in a Q and A in Columbus, Ohio. When someone asked her who she would want to be stuck on a deserted island with, she said, garrick, quote. And you guys have no idea why? End quote. I was working with the assumption that she wanted to get off of the island, so using the character that can wield distance would make sense. And the fact that one of his needs is to travel quickly for secret missions. But Carly has another idea, and I, truth be told, like it more in nature. So excited.

[Carly]

Yeah. I also just don't think distance wielding is really possible for Garak, because in that scene in the Iron Flame, Zaden says specifically, there hasn't been one in two centuries. And I feel like he wouldn't lie to Violet at that point because it was such a pivotal point in their relationship as she's finding out about his second signet. He could have said, I'm not a distance wielder, because she had asked him, are you a distance wielder? But by specifying there haven't been any in two centuries, I think it's setting it up for someone else to become one in the future and not necessarily someone that we already know.

[Kinsey]

Fair. I agree. I know Kenzie and I have talked about this in a bunch, but if for some reason he is going to somehow be a distance wielder, I don't think he knows. Or Zaden doesn't know, because I don't think Zaden would lie to him about it. But I have a very different theory. But it also has to do with the desert island joke about her saying Zaden and then being like, no, actually probably Garak. That's not exactly how she says it. She switches to Garak and she says, you guys have no idea why. And I want to be clear. I did not come up with this theory on my own. I had a fellow Fourth Wing fan reach out to me on my bookstagram, shout out to Christina, you are the best. She did give me permission to share this theory far and wide. Unfortunately, she doesn't have a bookstagram, so I can't share anything like that. But I am absolutely convinced that Garrick is a size wielder and that the desert island joke was just a dick joke. She's waiting a year for us all to get the punchline. And I love it so much, you guys. It makes me so happy she's a.

[Carly]

Fan of dick jokes. I literally commented a dick joke on one of her posts on Instagram and she responded and was like, lol. This made me crack up. And I was like, I made you laugh with a dick joke.

[Hannah]

It was funny. It was completely unrelated to the post.

[Carly]

It was like a Christmas post. And I was like, oh, size matters or something. I don't even remember why I said I have screenshots, but the reason I.

[Hannah]

Just kept thinking distance wielding was like, what else could possibly be related to the, like, the island thing? It would have taken a lot to convince me of another signet. Somehow a dick joke did it. Did it for me.

[Kinsey]

They did it for all of us.

[Hannah]

I know we say this jokingly, but like, also sounds about Rebecca. Yeah, like, that's definitely something she would say. It was also following Zayden, wink wink. Like, you know, she didn't say wink wink, but she was saying wink wink. You know what I mean? So I would not put it past her. And I think that she knew and she gets satisfaction out of the wait.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, well. And what I love is that it calls back to the very first chapter of Fourth Wing. Mira mentions knowing a size wielder. They have their own little dick joke about can he change the size of Anything, wink, wink.

[Carly]

And like.

[Kinsey]

And so the fact that she might be calling back to this moment, I just love the idea of it so much, I'm not willing to let it go. And I want to point out that if he is a size wielder, it solves a lot of weird issues for us. Like, how did Daedon get those custom sized daggers for Violet? What if he just took regular sized daggers and shrunk them down? Because, like, when Violet asks him about it, he's like, oh, if you're around here long enough, you'll know people who can help you with these things. Like, it's not an exact quote, but he says something to that effect. And the other thing that made me more convinced of this, that Christina pointed out, was that Zaden had to step in at threshing to save Garak because he was being bullied, and that's why he ended up killing the Prince Alec. But the Garak we know right now would not need saving. Right? Like, who's gonna bully Garak? Like, he's just. He's a huge guy. Like, he's always described as being a really big guy. So she's convinced that he has changed his size. And I'm like, I think you're right.

[Hannah]

Because, like, he sized wielded himself.

[Kinsey]

Hence the dick joke.

[Carly]

That's an easy gym day.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, right?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

And so I'm like, that makes so much more sense because Garak is formidable. Like, he is the only person who can stand against Zaden on the mat. But it makes so much more sense. And it also could help explain the saddle. Like, they have a saddle for Taryn. How did they make the furnace bigger to go around Taryn? He could have just made it bigger. And so I'm like, it solves that problem because how did he do that? And also, they were smuggling those daggers out. What if he could have shrunk them down to help hide them more easily or carry more? Yeah. So I am convinced it is size wielding. And I have one backup theory to size wielding.

[Hannah]

Before we move on from that, I just have to say, no wonder Imogen is down bad for this. Man.

[Carly]

Oh, man.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, no, I get it. I got it even before.

[Hannah]

I did get it before as well. But now it's like, yeah, but they.

[Kinsey]

The other. The only other thing I could think of that, like, when I was co main through a fourth wing looking for instances of like, specifically of Garrick doing something not for, like, because the other evidence is all kind of, like, outside. Like, makes more sense just in context. But the only other thing I noticed him doing something weird was at the very end of Fourth Wing when Violet realizes that Dana's betrayed her. He has stolen her memories. In her head, she is thinking about how this is all her fault and she is feeling really, really guilty. And as she is thinking like, this is all my fault, Garak starts to say that's not, and then cuts himself off and shakes his head and stops talking. And it's almost like he can sense her guilt. So it's the only other thing I could see him doing something weird. We'll get into this later, but I kind of think the marked ones have second signet. So I think he also might be able to sense emotion. But these are the only two theories I have for Garrick signet. But I'm pretty convinced.

[Carly]

Ooh.

[Hannah]

That was one of the audio messages that I sent being like, holy shit, Carly from the Dear Dragon Raiders episode. I went back to that part and I was like, wait, no, that's suspicious. Because what is he responding to? It didn't make sense in any other, but you just look right over it because you just think, oh, this chaotic.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. You always have to take those fast paced scenes and really slow them down because I think that's where things get put in to be slipped past us.

[Carly]

Oh, yeah.

[Hannah]

Well, I think it's really suspicious that there's just characters that Rebecca hasn't told us the signets of. Mm.

[Carly]

Yep.

[Kinsey]

I like it.

[Hannah]

It keeps it interesting, gives us more to theorize about, but it's also suspicious as fuck.

[Kinsey]

Well, the Bodhi reveal in Iron Flame was big when it reveals he can counter signets in that critical moment with Professor Carr. And it was like, it was pretty badass. So I'm really excited to see whatever Garrick thinks it is, whether I'm right or wrong. I can't wait to see the reveal.

[Carly]

Yeah. Because people are always asking and I'm like, genuinely, I don't really see very many clues in here. It's just hard to pick which clues relate to what. But the only thing that I've been able to think of is his dragon's name translates to pain. So I could see him being able to reduce pain or other emotions. Which kind of goes into your theory, Carly. Just a little bit. But I could see it being more like the opposite of cat's mind work. So he's like calming people down instead of riling them up.

[Hannah]

I like that.

[Carly]

Yeah. Who knows? We're gonna like, end up reading and being like, what?

[Kinsey]

We were so off. Oh, yeah, we'll see.

[Carly]

We'll see. We'll also see who may or may not be betraying us in Onyx Storm.

[Kinsey]

So this theory hurts.

[Carly]

Yeah, I have this running theory that Bode might betray Xaden. In the chapter 11 epigraph in iron Flame, Zaden describes Bodhi as perpetually tagging along a step behind. Now, let me explain. We know that Bode can counter signets. In the case with Professor Carr, he just shut off the flames. Zaden reads Intentions, which is a future action. Maybe Bode's always a step behind Satan because he's countering Zayden's intrinsic abilities. So this means that Bode likely knows Zaden's second signet. He probably would have discovered it on accident in a moment where, like, Zaden lost control. Or maybe he was just kind of, like, reading the whole room. I don't know. But if Bode is actively countering Zaden's signet and countering the intrinsic abilities to be a step behind him, that maybe he has something to hide, like a desire to possibly inherit the Euretian throne.

[Hannah]

Oh, shit.

[Carly]

Yeah. Or cause a rift between Zaden and Violet's relationship. Because, remember, Bodhi was also the one to give. I mean, it was a good gesture because she would have frozen on her flight. But he gave his jacket to. To Violet. He also brought up Cat's existence to Violet when she didn't even know anything at all about that relationship.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that does. I read that the other day, and I thought that seemed very suspicious, but I only thought that because you guys have poisoned my mind. Okay, so I'm gonna be entirely honest. I'm not quite following this theory as far as, like, what it means for him to be. So you're saying he.

[Carly]

Yeah, so Zaden says he's always like, bode is a step behind Zaden. Technically, everyone's actions should be, like, in front of him. Like, I see, like, reading intentions as, like, being able to see kind of, like, future things that they do, but he's always behind, so he doesn't. Like. It could just be that he's following, like, he's just like a little duck following him. And he's a shadow. But the way that I interpreted it was he is intentionally making it so that Zaden can't read his intentions. So he never knows, like, the next thing he's going to do, which is why he's always, like, behind in his mind.

[Hannah]

So you're saying that he is consistently turning off Zaden's signet, and Zaden just Doesn't know?

[Carly]

Yeah, like, he's preventing Zaden from reading his own intentions. So Zaden doesn't know, like, the next thing that Bode's gonna do, which is why Bodhi's always, like, behind him.

[Hannah]

Okay, so you're saying he has to physically be behind him to do that?

[Carly]

No, no, I'm saying, like, his actions, like, he doesn't know what's coming next. It's like.

[Hannah]

It's a figure of speech that you think is foreshadowing that he is. Yeah, okay, I caught up there. I circled back. No, it's okay. It seems like Bodhi's signet ability, if he can counter them, would mean that he could also sense them. So that's built into your theory that he is able to actually tell who anybody's signet is, which is a badass signet ability in itself. But he has a defense as well, so he can turn it off, which is really fucking cool. But now you have me very suspicious about the fact that he could be doing it all the. You don't think that Zaden would notice that he can never read it, or do you think Bode is intentional about when he lets him read his intentions?

[Carly]

He might be intentional, because I feel like, too, like, I don't think Bode necessarily has a radar for every single signet that exists. He probably has to, like, make the conscious choice to be like, I'm gonna block this person or that person or whatever. I don't know if Zaden could tell. I feel like maybe he would let him sometimes. But also, Zaden does try to make an effort to not read the people he cares about.

[Hannah]

That's true.

[Carly]

And he does try to, like, constantly enforce. Like, guys, we gotta, like, make sure our shields are good. We gotta make sure our shields are up. So maybe that's also a way for him to not be accidentally reading everyone.

[Hannah]

Else'S intentions in any of those scenarios. It just sets it up for Zaden to not see the betrayal coming. And I don't like that theory, but I also really do.

[Carly]

Yeah, so we'll see. It could just be a figure of speech. It most likely is, but you never know with Rebecca.

[Kinsey]

Well, I will point out when Kinsey and I were talking about this theory, I was like, oh, I'm gonna need to pile onto this. Like, I have some notes for this. So in one of the letters Zayden leaves Violet, he talks about referring to Liam and how he was the closest thing he had to a brother. And I'm like, well, Bode was Your cousin, your actual family, he was around all the time. I'm not that Liam isn't great and he wasn't also his foster brother, but you would think that Bode was the closest thing he had to a brother. And he always talks about Bode being, like Kinsey said, like a step behind him and Garrick. So it kind of seems like Bode is always a little bit on the outside with Xaden when he's been nothing but loyal. And Rebecca Garros, in an interview, had to assign different Taylor Swift songs to different characters from the character's perspective. And Bode's was I look in people's windows and I.

[Carly]

Explanation.

[Hannah]

I'm going to give you an explanation. For those who are not Taylor Swift, even casual listeners, I'm going to give you the lyrics. First, I want to take a step back. You mentioned Liam is his foster brother, but that only happened five or six years ago at this point. Whereas Bode likely did grow up with him. So that really is super suspicious. Because, you know, it's not just that they all grew up together their whole life and then they just ended up closer. No, that is distinct.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So the lyrics to I look in people's windows are, quote, I look in people's windows like I'm some deranged weirdo. Why did I say it like that?

[Carly]

Because you're a deranged weirdo.

[Hannah]

Weirdo.

[Carly]

Okay.

[Hannah]

I look in people's windows like I'm some deranged weirdo. I attend Christmas parties from outside I look in people's windows in case you're at their table what if your eyes looked up and met mine one more time? And does it feel alright to not know me? I'm addicted to the if only. Ooh, incredible song. When you said this to me the other day, Carly, Cause I did not realize that this was the song for Bode. I immediately thought that has always been not an entirely romantic song. But I have perceived the subject that Taylor is looking through the window to see as being a romantic partner. But that's not entirely the case. If I take a step back, that song could be very much so platonic. And it could also be about Taylor specifically stepping out of her fame and just like looking into other people's lives. So that could have just been my own bias with thinking about it romantically. But I do want to point out if it is romantically, it would go along with the theory that Bodhi wants Violet and that he gave her his flight jacket to make Zaden jealous. But Zaden Wouldn't know, because he can't read his intentions if Bode's blocking him. Huh. We love a full circle.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I think either way, that song, though, does just kind of show that he feels a little on the outside, a little isolated.

[Hannah]

Yep.

[Kinsey]

And it just makes me concerned.

[Hannah]

Quite sad.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

No, that's quite sad. Especially in tandem with the epigraph about always being a step behind, because it's like. It's almost like, does he choose that? Does he want that? Or is he just the shadow? Which is crazy, considering Zaden wields shadows. Oh, shit. Okay. Okay.

[Carly]

He's wielding people.

[Hannah]

He could technically be wielding Bode. Or, like, maybe Bode perceives it like that, and there's just. There's gotta be, like, some depth there that we just haven't uncovered yet.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I just think that there is a vibe to that song that makes me concerned for what Bode's future intentions will be. And so I'm just 100% with Kinsey at this point. I kind of think that there is a betrayal. Coming from Bode originally, I didn't think so, but she has convinced me otherwise.

[Hannah]

And William, we don't know a bunch about his family. Like, all of the Mark twins, of course, are traumatized. Like, they don't have a family. So I look in people's windows, like, wishing that, you know, he could even be about Violet with her siblings, you know? But I still come back to my romantic perception of that song aside, I do lean more to that being about Zayden and Bodhi.

[Kinsey]

Can we talk about my favorite topic now? One of my favorite topics, the origin of the Venon.

[Carly]

Ooh, let's get to it.

[Kinsey]

This is one of my favorite things. I find the Vennon so fascinating. I always go back to that. The best villains are the heroes of their own stories. I think we're going to find that out with the Vennon. I want to point out a quote. It was never our continent from the very beginning, it was theirs, and we were simply allowed to live here. It's in an epigraph in Iron Flame. Clearly, the humans and the dragons. It was a contentious relationship in the beginning. Right.

[Hannah]

Who is saying it was ever our.

[Kinsey]

You know, it's in an epigraph. I don't have that in front of me, but it's. It is about the fact that the humans are kind of Just had to be fearful of the dragons, basically.

[Hannah]

So it's a human saying, it was never our continent. It was always belonging to the dragons.

[Carly]

Okay.

[Kinsey]

Yes. And it's just. I kind of latched onto that. I was like, what's going on here? And then I started. When I started putting together a deep dive on the Venin a while back, I noticed something odd. In the fables, it says, but it was the third brother who commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power, who finally vanquished his jealous sibling at a great and terrible price. And then later on, Violet says, what was the fable again? One brother bonded to Griffin, one to dragon. And when the third grew jealous, he drew directly from the source, losing his soul and waging war on the other two. If it's the third brother who commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power, and it's also the third brother who grew jealous, what does that mean for the origin of the Venon?

[Carly]

What does this mean for Violet? Yeah, okay.

[Kinsey]

Kinsey, are you okay over there?

[Carly]

Yeah. Well, I mean, if it is in that exact order, you know, like, she commands the sky. We know that. We know the Venin really desperately want her.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. And I talked a little bit about it in our dragon section in our Other Theory episode. But essentially, I think the dragons are partially responsible for the creation of the Venin. There was something about whether it was a need for the humans to be able to fight back against the dragons and be safe from them, or they were bonding and those bonds turned and created Venon, or some scenario. But the fables are telling us that it's both the third brother who grew jealous in turn, and the third brother who commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power, who finally vanquished his jealous sibling at a great and terrible price.

[Hannah]

So, forgive me, this is not computing for me.

[Kinsey]

So the point here is that the person who becomes Venon is also the hero of the story. So at some point, the Vennon were not necessarily bad guys. I think they just became bad guys over time over a desire for more and more power. But I do believe that the dragons, to some extent, whether directly or indirectly, created the Venon. And over time, the Venin became the bad guy.

[Hannah]

You've convinced me of this. I'm sold. You've been in Episode bringing those up. But they were game changing for me, especially with the fact that the book title is the Empyrean, and we still don't know much about the dragonstall. They're so suspiciously, so suspicious, secretive. They're awful to humans. And we love Tyrinen and Darna and have love for scale, but those are dragons who are specifically going against Navarre. Like, they're not your typical dragons. And the ones that are higher in leadership with your humans are not known to be good. Like, think of Solas. So.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Carly]

Well, also, in the beginning of Fourth Wing, I feel like a lot of people seem to forget this, but the fables of the Baron actually warned about also bonding to dragons. So it's not just Venon that we're concerned about. It was also dragons.

[Kinsey]

Yep.

[Hannah]

They said the wording used was that the fables also demonize dragons.

[Kinsey]

I just don't think that the dragons are like the innocent bystanders and all this. I think the Venin might. The people that turned Venon were just kind of the original victims, just trying to survive. So we will see. But I believe Rebecca Yarros is going to give us an excellent villain. And an excellent villain has to have an excellent backstory. So I'm here for it. I just. I can't wait to find out what it is.

[Hannah]

Well, it makes them very morally gray instead of just black.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Calling back to our interviews episode about Rebecca Yarros's hints, she specifically said that when she writes villains, she writes them so that we will also have levels of empathy for them. And I don't think that's just about Jack, though I do think it's symbolic that Jack is also venom.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, agreed.

[Hannah]

There's nuance. Right. Like, it's not just, oh, you know, long time ago you were done, you know, terribly. And that absolves you of all the things you're doing now. But it does explain how oppressed people are forced into reactions and then blamed for those reactions and how they adjusted to it and that I could totally see. That sounds about Rebecca.

[Kinsey]

It really does. Especially since she's a history major, so.

[Hannah]

Exactly.

[Kinsey]

I'm very confident we're gonna an excellent, complex, backstoried villain. And I.

[Hannah]

And I really hope you're right.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

This is so intriguing to me. I really hope this is the direction she goes in.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, hopefully. All right, do we want to talk about the cure and what maybe could potentially be some of the building blocks for that?

[Carly]

Oh, yeah. I'm sure everyone would like to know.

[Hannah]

I think we should start by saying we think there is a cure.

[Kinsey]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Because that is a theory in itself.

[Kinsey]

Right.

[Hannah]

We have no confirmation yet that there is one, but it has been set up. The tyres egg here.

[Kinsey]

I didn't put any notes in here because I wanted to surprise Hannah because I don't think she's heard the Siri. Hannah, do you see what I have this titled as.

[Hannah]

The Sex Theory. This episode is great. We got dick jokes. We got sex theories. What could that possibly mean in relation to a cure?

[Kinsey]

Okay, so there's no actual sex involved in the cure, but it was during a sex scene that I realized what part of it might be. Sorry, Kenzie. I'm so sorry to disappoint you.

[Hannah]

It was.

[Carly]

I'm out of here.

[Hannah]

I totally. I was so distracted by Kenzie's reaction. You said it. It was. What'd you say?

[Kinsey]

I would say. I'm so sorry to say there's no sex in the actual cure.

[Hannah]

But how. Why is it named that?

[Kinsey]

I titled it that mostly to make you laugh, but also because I got it. I got a lot of comments on my reel on it about this theory that exists out there. And that's kind of what it got jokingly titled. But it's. I noticed it during a sex scene in Fourth Wave.

[Hannah]

Ah.

[Kinsey]

Okay.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Kinsey]

And this is. Yeah. So here is what I'm thinking. The cure has to do with.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Kinsey]

It has to do with restoring balance to the magic system. Restoring the magic to its original state. In Fourth Wing, when Zaden and Violet are hooking up.

[Hannah]

Woo woo.

[Kinsey]

Violet's lightning goes off as it does shatters a window. Zaden throws up a shield of shadows.

[Hannah]

To protect them, the sand.

[Kinsey]

And the glass is turned to sand. And what is glass made out of? Sand. The glass was restored to its original state. And I will also point out that when lightning strikes sand, it turns it into glass.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Kinsey]

Somehow I don't know if it's a combination of their signets or one or the other. It has returned the glass to its original state. And I touched on this in the Feathertail episode a little bit. Kinsey, are you okay? Your face.

[Carly]

Well, I'm just thinking, like, I wonder if it works because their signets counter each other. Like, they're a good balance. They match each other.

[Kinsey]

Yes.

[Carly]

And then it just happens to be the type of signet that they have.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. So hear me out. And Darna's gift is time. And I think across the feathertail gifts, we are going to see about six feathertail gifts, original gifts that are these very strong, overarching gifts like time, space, light, dark, healing, et cetera, things of that nature that they. Each one has a counter. And that the original riders had these very powerful signets that were closer to the purest form of these feathertail gifts. And that a combination of using these signets is how they're going to either defeat the Venin or heal the land or both. And that. That will have to do with the cure.

[Carly]

I like it.

[Kinsey]

We will see. It's a kind of out there theory, and it all started with a sex scene. So I may. I understand if nobody takes it very seriously, but I worked this out also shout out to my brother, who helped me work out this theory over weeks, literally drew me pictures of diagrams of the signets and how they would counter each other. Really, he put in the works on this one with me. So thank you, Joey. I appreciate it. But, yes. So I think that's what we are going to see happen. And I think it's gonna have to do with the cure.

[Carly]

Well, even still, I'm just like, why would his shadows turn glass into sand? That is just so bizarre.

[Kinsey]

It's super weird. And when I saw that, I was like, wait, glass is made of sand? So the glass was returned to its original state. And that's when it struck me.

[Carly]

It struck you?

[Kinsey]

It struck me like a pull delight.

[Carly]

I mean, I've been saying for ages that their signets complement each other. And then, like, now we have Dane and Imogen that complement each other as well. I'm sure we're gonna see other people whose signets are also, like, counters or.

[Kinsey]

Well, we're going to talk more about the countering later. We know that. So can't wait to talk about that. Okay, but I'll save that for later. But, Kenzie, I think you have some thoughts.

[Carly]

Yes, I do. So, for the cure, I have, like, basically three ideas, and I think it could be, like, a joint effort kind of a situation. I feel like the easiest would be using Sloan and Brennan signet. So Brennan would, like, heal the soul, which is what Nolan was trying to do with Jack. But Sloane, being a siphon, would be able to kind of, like, remove that, like, evil Venon magic and, like, remove the magic that they had channeled from the earth or. If you guys have listened to our theories episode yesterday, you'll know that our biggest. Biggest theory for Violet's second signet is compulsion. As a part of Violet's second signet, compulsion is her need for control. There is no cure, but only control. That is a quote that we have in an epigraph, right? Or, no, we got that from Jack. There is no cure. There's only control.

[Hannah]

Jack. Yeah.

[Carly]

So what if Violet can command control from a Venon? Or just tell him, stop. No more channeling. She could compel them.

[Hannah]

So I'm like, maybe she has definitely told them to stop and they've listened before.

[Carly]

She has. There's no need. There's only Control. She. She has the ultimate control.

[Kinsey]

Okay.

[Carly]

Anyway, that's what gets me most excited. Or Andarna's den could be the secret weapon that they're looking for. They probably destroyed the Venn 600 years ago. They'll probably be the way that they find a cure. Either they have a unique magic that can be used against them because as we saw. And Darna could torch a Venon. No one else could. Maybe her fire somehow like breaks apart their magic. I don't know. Or I've also seen this theory a lot online. I can't claim this one as my own, but people say. And Darna scorpion tail venom could also possibly be used to create the anti venom. I don't know. I feel like Brennan and Sloane makes a lot of sense. I really love your theory, Carly, but I'm also like, oh, what if it's compulsion? What if it's like, oh, here's your control.

[Kinsey]

That's really interesting. I also, I've seen the scorpion tail venom theory. I also find that very fascinating to be interesting if that is something that they will need for something, even if it's not the cure. So I find that fascinating because it's.

[Carly]

Like Aeda is not the only scorpion tailed dragon that's out there. So I wonder if it would really only work because she has like the special magic that can destroy Yvetin. Because she is part of the seventh breed. And maybe that's what could play into.

[Hannah]

The prophecy theory about why she specifically needed to be the one to wait. Not just that she can kill Venon with fire, but I actually think that's the most compelling evidence that it is related to Endarna, is that she can kill them. So maybe she can also counteract that and save them. Essentially, nature does, like all things in Valor.

[Kinsey]

It sure does.

[Carly]

As she likes to say.

[Kinsey]

Are we ready to talk about Zaden's grandfather?

[Carly]

I think we are.

[Kinsey]

Okay.

[Hannah]

I'm really excited for this one. This is another one of my audio messages.

[Carly]

It was the reaction.

[Kinsey]

Reactions were fantastic. Maybe I need to compile them.

[Carly]

We'll put it on our Patreon if you want to hear all of her voice messages.

[Kinsey]

They're fantastic.

[Hannah]

They are explicit.

[Carly]

So is our podcast.

[Kinsey]

We'll put a warning up. So Violet is having those nightmares in Iron Flame. There's some big bad venom out there communicating with her. Potentially it's Zaden's nightmare and she's slipping into it. Potentially it's her own nightmare. Rebecca Yaros was pretty cagey about that in an interview. So we're not really sure, but I am convinced there is a connection to the Venin that the one in Violet's nightmare, the one who touches her and she's like touching snu. That's terrifying. Is Zaden's grandfather. Hear me out. Sigeil's previous writer was Zaden's grandfather, and he allegedly didn't survive the Quadrant. However, at some point he had kids. They're not supposed to get married and have kids until they're graduated, so I find it a little odd. I'm like, when did he have kids? That's weird. And then we get some weird timeline things. We find out that it's in the last 50 years that the Venin are no longer coming out of just the Barrens. They're taking recruits and teaching them. And it was 50 years ago that the grandfather allegedly didn't survive the Quadrant. So this timeline is fishy. And then Zaden tells Violet that he is convinced that they lost this war 50 years ago and they just haven't figured it out yet, that they're 50 years too late to this war. So I'm convinced it's the grandfather. And there is an epigraph. I will quote this epigraph. Though there is some debate, it is greatly believed that turning Venon heightens one of the dark wielder's senses. It is this scholar's belief that the one responsible for the death of King Gretwild developed keener insight. For not even the best of His Majesty's royal flyers could see through the darkness the Venon hid within to slay our beloved king. So it sounds like this Venon, whoever slayed this king, was a shadow wielder. And we know people and family lines have the same signets. I'm convinced this was Zaden's grandfather and that he killed a king and that he is now Vennon. And that is who is talking to Violet in her dream. And I will also point out that the Vennon in the dream, they're always pale until the dream. This Venon's described as tan, so his appearance changes suddenly. So I think there's a difference to the nightmare she has when she's next to Zaden. So that's why I'm not sure if they're his or hers, because they do change. But absolutely convinced it's the grandfather. And, oh, and I'll point out one more thing. When Zaden is finally going to tell Violet everything, he's like, I'll tell you anything you want to know. What do you want to know. And he starts listing things to tell her, to give her a choice from. He lists a few things. And the very second thing he says is, do you want me to tell you about Sigail and my grandfather?

[Carly]

She should have said yes.

[Kinsey]

And then she asks about his mom, so we didn't get to find out. I'm convinced that there is a connection from Zayn's grandfather to the Venon and that it's through Sigale, and that that makes the heartbreak from Sigel at the end of Iron Flame, it just twists that knife even harder. I think that's why she's so mad, because, you know, anger is a secondary emotion. I'm convinced she is absolutely heartbroken because this has happened a second time for her now. And Zayden was her chance to fix her mistake and stop this person who has now been recruiting people and making this problem so much worse. And now he's Venon, too. And I just feel for her.

[Carly]

Do you think that that's why Fen Ryerson was so adamant at helping people fight?

[Kinsey]

Adamant that they fight? I think he feels responsible for it in his family line, that his family is partially responsible for this, because, like, we know that the Ryersons have to have a connection to the Vennon and stopping them because they have those rhymestad chests that were specifically designed to entrap Venon. So I believe there's a long standing family line of Ryersons fighting the Venin. I think Fen felt compelled to stop this problem, but I also think it's why he was convinced that Zaden should not become a Dragon Rider. He didn't want to risk the same thing happening to him that happened to his dad. And to be clear, we don't know for sure it is his dad on his father's side. But because we know so little about his mom, I think it would be odd if it was on his maternal side. So just putting that out there. But that. That is my theory. Take what you will.

[Carly]

You have me convinced that one of the venom from her dreams could potentially be his grandfather, because not only did he have the tan skin and the dark eyes, but he also had sweet breath, which is not a description that they've had before. We know that Zaden's favorite food is chocolate cake that you can only get in Orisha's. And correct me if I'm wrong, I don't recall exactly when this specific nightmare happened. Was it after she gave him cake, too, or was it like before that scene?

[Kinsey]

I believe it was before that scene.

[Carly]

Before. Okay.

[Kinsey]

I will point out too, that the dreams, the nightmares, seem to change and become more sinister and more real because she talks about them touching her, being able to smell them, which is just not something you normally associate with a dream. When she is outside the wards. It is never when she is inside the wards. It is only when she is next to Xaden. And it is only when she is outside the wards, which is why I'm not sure if they're really hers or if there is Zayden's and she's just slipping into them through the bond. Or if it's just something that can only happen when she's outside the wards. I'm not really sure, but I just wanted to point that out. I also wanna point out the sweet breath thing. So Zaden's favorite thing is chocolate cake.

[Carly]

There's also those buns.

[Kinsey]

Yes. So the biscuits that Brennan feeds Violet. She noticed that. She says that, oh, the revolution tastes oddly sweet. And she's talking about the biscuits she's eating.

[Hannah]

So fucking suspicious.

[Kinsey]

So suspicious. And the other thing that has like a distinctly sweet aftertaste to it is, is the antidote to the signet blocking serum.

[Hannah]

I've been holding on to saying that. I've been like, don't drop. I'm convinced it's a serum.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. I am wondering if it has to do with that. So those are the only three things I could connect it to. Kenzie, you brought up the chocolate cake. I did not think of that. But I'm just. It's gotta be one of those three, right? I don't know what else it could be.

[Carly]

It all ties back, no matter what.

[Hannah]

It's very interesting to me that a Venin would have sweet breath, because the only connections we have attempted to make with breath is the dragons having rotten breath. So if we really want to. Again, full circle, it Venon are not as bad as we think. And the dragons could be.

[Carly]

But also the wyvern are also described as having rotten breath. And I think that's where the theory came in with the dragons.

[Kinsey]

Well, I think it's that their flesh tastes rotten and sour, I believe. Yeah.

[Carly]

Gotcha.

[Kinsey]

Violet gets to experience that when she experiences something Sigale is experiencing during the fight. Because their shields are just not great at that point because they're also tired. That's what had me convinced that it has something to do with the venoms. What's wrong with the dragon's breath? 100% agree.

[Hannah]

I do want to take a step back to the conversation about Zaden's grandfather being Venon. I want to say that I like that theory a lot because I actually do want a significant connection to be there to the venom. Like, I want it to be someone. I don't just want it to be, like, some random evil guy.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, no, it has to be somebody connected to the story. It has to be. Right.

[Carly]

It also gives more conflict between relationships with different characters that does not involve Zaden and Violet having relationship conflict.

[Hannah]

I could go a little less at this point.

[Carly]

Yeah, I know. Back to the dreams. A lot of people do have the idea that maybe she could be a dreamwalker. I agree that it's probably most likely she's just like, if it happens to be only Zaden's dreams, that maybe it's just coming in through the bond. Because Taryn does say, oh, yeah, sometimes I can see your dreams. I just choose to ignore them. To me, when I read those scenes, it kind of just reminded me of Harry Potter, when Voldemort would use that as a way to communicate. So I just felt like it was. It's not actually a dream. It's just the Venon being like, hey, we're gonna scare you. We're gonna talk to you.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I definitely think it's communication, too. I think the dreamwalker theory is super fun. I just. I'm having a hard time, I guess, finding how we're gonna use that later. Yeah, I'm sure there are some other people out there who are much more creative than I am, that they have that all figured out. I'm just not sure.

[Carly]

More creative than Carly.

[Kinsey]

Oh, for sure.

[Carly]

Nah, that's impossible.

[Kinsey]

All right, so are we good to talk about who we think is Venon? Maybe Venon will turn Venon.

[Hannah]

Is it an option to say everyone?

[Carly]

Yes, everyone's a suspect.

[Kinsey]

I am absolutely convinced Quinn is already Venon. Her signet allows her to astral project as well as change her own appearance. She could hide her eyes if she wanted to this whole time. We would never know. So I'm convinced she's already Venon. And I know we talked about this in the last episode. I think Dane might already be Venon. And I'm convinced Cat will turn.

[Hannah]

Oh, why? You're a motivations girly.

[Carly]

Why?

[Kinsey]

I know, I know. Okay, so. Cause it has to go back to power. You know, Cat is motivated by power, by gaining power. And there is an epigraph in the chapter where she is fighting Violet about, you know, the dangers of power in Venon. And I'm convinced that that was foreshadowing. For Cat to turn Venon, so.

[Hannah]

Oh, shit.

[Kinsey]

I think it just goes back to Kat's own motivations for power. So Cat has grown on me.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

You know, I'm not a Cat hater. I. I get why she's there. I understand her as a character. I don't want to be friends with her, but she frustrates me.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

But I. I'm convinced she'll turn. So those are the three I've got. Kenzie.

[Carly]

Yeah. When you first told me your Quinn theory, I was like, how did I not think of this sooner? It's right in front of our faces. But as you guys all know, Brennan, I do not trust him. I think he's hiding things. Just his whole resurrection is so suspicious to me. If he's not a Venon, he's a Wyvern. I don't know. Anyway, also, I do agree with Dain, and on that end, we also have to include his father, Colonel Eidos. For sure. We have to remember all the assassins that he had hired were all Venon. So I also think, of course, Varysh was as well. I don't know if we ever really got a confirmation. We just kind of assume. But Professor Markham, Violet's powers also rise up when he's around. Two in battle brief, then, I think General Sorengel was a Venin Commandant Panchak. Carolyn Ashton, she's just way too close to Jack.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

We also know that the Nevarian government has corrupt morals and they've set lures at Ressen. I don't know how they would have known how to summon the Venin without also, like, being Venom themselves. Or even just working with the Venin, which, again, they do because they hire Venin assassins.

[Hannah]

I think that could be explained by the fact that they are let into the know. As General Sorengale's quote to Violet said, like, you hit a certain point and we start letting you know what's going on. So I wonder if they're just kind of like the vault. Like, they hide the classified Venom information that is. Or, like, verbally passed down. But I still am fully on your theory about the fact that it's almost like they have Venon have definitely infiltrated. I'm convinced they have fully infiltrated the scribe quadrant. And they have sectors of leadership that are absolutely Venon.

[Carly]

Yeah, there's definitely different groups of Venon. So maybe not all Venon are bad. Some are obviously bad, but I just think it's really weird that they seem to be constantly working with them. They also were the ones to create the power dampening serum. That was a new development in Iron Flame. And either they extracted this directly from Jack, or they already knew about the poison and had it readily available. The poison cut off Violet's connection to her magic. This is mentioned at the end of Fourth Wing and the beginning of Iron Flame. So I think that they had to have access to the poison to create a similar effect with the serum. Because it cut them off from the power. Right. So I don't know. I just think it's weird that the Venin poison and the power dampening serum work the same.

[Kinsey]

Agree.

[Hannah]

I think it's also really suspicious. And you know, going back to the potential that the sweet breath of the Venin was the serum, I don't really know how that would make a ton of sense. I like it. But if it was cutting off its.

[Carly]

Power, why would they drink it?

[Hannah]

Would it really be able to infiltrate their dreams? I don't know. Unless that's a signant and they're a rider.

[Kinsey]

Well, to clarify, it's the antidote to the serum that tastes sweet, not the actual serum.

[Carly]

Oh, I totally did not follow that.

[Hannah]

To me. I'm not following.

[Kinsey]

You were saying, like, why would they be taking the serum? Right?

[Hannah]

No, I'm saying if he was given the serum in some capacity, why would he have the serum at all? That's sweet.

[Kinsey]

But the serum isn't what's sweet. It's the antidote to the serum. That's sweet. Just to be clear, I didn't follow.

[Carly]

That at first, but now that makes sense.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yeah. So you're saying like what they gave them, like they went on the RSC land nav thing, they dampened their powers, but then they gave them the antidote to the serum. That was sweet.

[Kinsey]

That's what sweet. Okay, sorry.

[Hannah]

No, I was not following that even on my reads. So glad we pointed that out because I was thinking of them as the same. But yeah, that could be cool that it's almost like whoever that was had been dosed. And then they got the antidote and now had their power back and was infiltrated. Holy.

[Kinsey]

So now it makes more sense. Yeah. Wait, I love that.

[Carly]

Who do you think, Hannah?

[Hannah]

It's Venon.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Okay, so you know you said Panchak Aitos, Both of them, possibly Dane. I don't know. I had no inclination until yesterday's episode. And now I'm like, oh my God. He could be. I think it would be really heartbreaking. I think if he is. He was convinced into it. I Still don't know how convinced of the possibility of that is, but Caroline Ashton, for sure. I'm so scared to say any of our core. It's got to be some. Are we convinced that one of our core Chosen family characters are Venon? I want to add Brennan for sure, but I don't really consider him the Chosen family corps.

[Carly]

There was a period of time where I was actually suspicious of, I think, Sawyer. It was either Sawyer or Riddick, but it was because when Violet had told the truth to her squad mates, he just completely did not seem surprised at all. But he also fought for them in the battle and then lost his leg and everything. So I'm like, I don't really think so. But if Jesenia is evil, like Carly thinks, and he's got a relationship going with Jesenia, I mean, maybe, but I don't know. I don't really have an exact reason for it. There's just a period where I was.

[Hannah]

Like, maybe if you had to pick one of the Chosen family, who would you pick?

[Carly]

I mean, does Brennan count?

[Hannah]

No, he doesn't count. It has to be someone we love.

[Carly]

Zaden.

[Kinsey]

Nice workaround.

[Carly]

Violet.

[Hannah]

I will say it would hurt the worst if Ri was. I don't think she is.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I'm convinced of Quinn, I think, at this point, because character wise, ability aside, she just makes the most sense. She's in the core group, but she's not. Yeah, she's not, like, super close, so it'd be. I would be less heartbroken about that, but that's not what Rebecca is about. She wants to hit us where it hurts. So I see that being Re Sawyer or Riddick.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Or Bodhi and Garrick. But then it's like, does that make him being Vin and hit as hard? Zaden?

[Carly]

Imogen also has a lot to hide, as we've discussed many times. She could make people forget if her eyes are red.

[Hannah]

I don't want that to be true.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I love Imogen. I am very protective over her at this point. We're like, everyone's an Intinzic. Everyone's a Venom. Everyone.

[Kinsey]

Like, everyone's gonna die.

[Hannah]

Everyone's.

[Carly]

Everyone's going to die. Nobody's safe. We don't trust anybody.

[Kinsey]

Oh, I never trust anybody. That's dangerous with books.

[Carly]

You don't trust me.

[Kinsey]

I trust you with anything.

[Hannah]

But not feeling that it would make sense to me that either Papa Sorrengail or General Sorrengail were venon, you know, turned. I don't think it was Papa Sorgale. Though I really do lean that Lilith was.

[Carly]

I think it was Lilith. Yeah, I genuinely do. And maybe that will be the hard truth that Violet discovers as she reads the journals.

[Hannah]

Would you really write that down?

[Carly]

Dear diary, today I pulled straight from the source.

[Hannah]

Today I exchanged my soul.

[Carly]

But she did exchange her soul.

[Hannah]

There you go. Yeah, the evidence is there.

[Kinsey]

Are we ready to talk about Mark Twent's second signets?

[Carly]

Oh, yes. I like this one.

[Kinsey]

I love anything signet related. I am a signet fangirl. I cannot help it. I want to know everything about them. Every signet there is. All the things we know. At the end of fourth wing, Liam is wielding ice.

[Carly]

Yep.

[Kinsey]

But that's not his signet. Not the one we're told. He has farsight. And I do believe it is because the marked one relics, the protection runes their parents gave them to protect them from the signet of the dragon who would kill their parent, gave them a second signet because those relics, I believe, are acting as a conduit for magic. The relics that their dragons give them. So I believe that this is giving them some sort of hybrid rune relic signet ability. I don't know if you would exactly call it a signet because a rune somewhat caused it, but also a dragon spire activated it. So not sure what you want to call it, but a lot of people when they hear this theory, think, oh, this was an editing mistake. This is something that has been told by people. I cannot find any evidence that Rebecca, your host, ever said that this was an editing mistake. I have looked far and wide, hours upon hours of interviews. I can't find it.

[Hannah]

Would you say you used farsight?

[Kinsey]

It felt like it. Because Liam is wielding ISO and his signet is farsight. How do we explain that? It's not the only way to explain it. But I do believe the marked ones have second signets. I believe that the relics are giving them a signet ability to help counter the signet of the dragon who killed their parent. And I actually believe that Liam's farsight is his runed relic ability. And maybe he didn't realize it. And then the ice kicked in and they kept it secret because Melgren can see into the metaphysical distance, precognition, battle outcomes, but Liam can see into the physical distance. And so I think those are related. I think that this ruined relic they're getting is some sort of related ability, similar ability to the rider's signet of the dragon who killed their parent.

[Carly]

I know where you're going with this.

[Kinsey]

I know where you're going, but I.

[Hannah]

Am along for the ride.

[Carly]

Before you go there real quick, can I interject?

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I'd also like to point out that Liam's dragon's name translated to ice, does it not?

[Kinsey]

It does.

[Carly]

And I actually fell victim to believing. Oh, it was an editing mistake. Like, because I would even tell people. Because I did catch that. And I was like, wait a second. That's not his signet. And it was weird that his dragon's name meant that. But if she never actually said that.

[Kinsey]

I can't find it. And I really have, I mean, hours and hours of interviews. So I'm not sure that it exists. I am convinced that they all have second signets, whether or not they are aware of it. I will point out the ice wielding we see outside the wards where magic is more wild. So maybe he realized it in that moment. It just happened out of an emotional response and need. So I'm not sure if they all know.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Or if it's just happening during extreme duress or outside the wards or both. But I do believe we're going to find out that the marked ones have second signets. I am confident Liam had one. Remember this information though, for later because we're going to get into this in just a little bit about the rune relic being related to the rider signet of the dragon who killed their parent. That is quite a mouthful to say. I will say I am convinced of this. And there is that line that Xaden has in four Swing about how these unique signets are some of the most powerful currency that they have.

[Hannah]

Keeping a secret is the most powerful. Yep.

[Kinsey]

And I'm convinced that that's because he is starting to realize this about the marked ones.

[Carly]

Didn't he also have a quote where he said originally he thought it was a curse, but now he realizes it's a gift?

[Kinsey]

Yep. Interesting.

[Hannah]

That's what made me go. A gift. Like a feathertail gift.

[Kinsey]

Like a gift, gift, gift.

[Hannah]

I feel like this would requires some rearranging of my own understanding of the magic system. And one, how powerful runes are.

[Kinsey]

Right.

[Hannah]

Which you have pointed out before that they are said to be the great equalizer. So that is enough for me right there to be like, all right, all right. Acting as a conduit without a dragon. I know a lot of people have theorized about maybe Melgryn's dragon actually, like Koda, the leader of a den. I cannot see this being the case, but that Coda somehow gifted them the signet knowing that this was like he was some Type of double agent. I can't see that. I don't know. So it acting as a conduit is hard for me. But Zaden does say that only Liam's mom could really weave that intricate of a rune to do this. So it's like if there's that limitation, we're not just hating out. It's a lot willy nilly. And maybe it had to be activated and could only in like a completely immoral situation, which for the children of these Separatists was immoral. So what would be cool is if.

[Carly]

They find his mom's journals, because we know Cat's, like, really skilled with runes. What if she's able to use that ability to make complex runes like this again?

[Hannah]

But you're talking about if they find whose journals?

[Carly]

Liam and Sloane's mother's journals. If they exist.

[Kinsey]

Hopefully they still exist.

[Hannah]

I just want everybody's journals.

[Carly]

They probably don't, but. So this seems like a little abrupt change in subject here, but. Hannah, take it away.

[Hannah]

I'm so excited to talk about this. I am stepping up on my soapbox. I am convinced, and this is not an uncommon theory, but I am convinced that Zayden's intrinsic ability is not limited to intentions and that he just doesn't have the tools as it stands, or the understanding to realize that it is more than intentions. I'm going to explain how Zaden has presented it to us, and then we'll. We'll tease it out a little bit. So he says to Violet, when she asks if he can read her thoughts, that it's more complicated than that. Think of that breath of a second before the actual thought, the subconscious motivation you might not even be aware of in your mind, or when instinct drives you to move or you're looking to betray someone. The intention is always there. Mostly they come across as pictures, but some people intend in really clear pictures. I believe that the really clear pictures that he gets from some people are hints that his signet abilities, when practiced and honed, will evolve to reading thoughts themselves. And that this would explain the many times that he has responded to Violet's exact thoughts, not her intentions, and specifically not italicized through their bond. And I'd like to be clear that I think that these examples show that he is already doing it subconsciously. And once he realizes it, he will be able to hone those skills. So in the first example in Fourth Wing, when Zaden and Violet are being intimate, Violet thinks to herself, not in italics quote, I'm not going to survive this. I'm going to die right here in this bed. And Zaden responds out loud, then I'm going to die with you.

[Carly]

Facts.

[Hannah]

That is not a fucking intention. She didn't intend to die right there in the bed. Like that is an exact response to a thought. All right? Violet then thinks, I'm so far gone, I didn't even realize I said the words out loud. And then I remember that I don't have to before she intentionally speaks through the bond in italics. That was Rebecca telling us for sure that that was not through the bond. So unless Zaden can read Violet's intention to think a thought, which I'm going to point out is still a form of reading thoughts, he read and responded to her exact thoughts. Hence, he is not reading intentions. He's reading thoughts. All right. Another example in Iron Flame, during the conversation about his second signant, Violet is trying to think of what it could be. And she thinks, quote, what if he's like, cat, what if he's been manipulating my emotions this whole time? I swallow back the bile inching its way up my throat. Clearly, all of that was her inner dialogue, not in italics. And Zaden says out loud, I would never do something like that. And Violet says out loud, shit, I didn't mean to say that out loud, babe. You didn't. You didn't say it out loud. Can you tell I get heated about this. I'm like, it's right there. They were communicating verbally, not through their bond here. Also important. It's not just typo. This is spelled out for us. And the next line of this fucking book is, he doesn't respond. Which I'd like to side note and say, Zaden can't be oblivious. I don't understand how, like, in both of those situations, like, maybe he's just so out of control in the first one when they're having sex that, like, he's just not. He didn't notice. Sure. But this one, there's this dramatic pause. He just didn't. He chose not to respond, as he's about to then tell her that he can read intentions. That is nuts to me. You cannot convince me that he is not reading thoughts. But the nail in the coffin for me was at the London Q and A, in reference to a question about Zaden being able to hear Violet's dirty thoughts, Rebecca responded, quote, there's like a couple. A couple spots in Onyx Storm where he's like, yeah, I remember you thinking that. I totally did. I used that to my advantage. Clear pictures.

[Kinsey]

Sure.

[Carly]

Thinking.

[Hannah]

Explain the Rest. I rest my case, and I need to rest my heart rate.

[Kinsey]

I love how worked up you get about this. I just love it.

[Carly]

I would like to say my biggest flex over this series was I discovered that Zaden was an intensic before Violet did. So let me share my favorite scene that made it so obvious. Like, that sex scene that you're referring to clued me in, because I was like, why does she keep saying, I didn't say that out loud, but this, for me, really, really did it. So in chapter 35 of fourth wing, this is when the flyers show up at Athbane and Violet, thanks, quote, they're all fucking traitors. This was not italicized. It was not sent through the bond. And she never verbally says this the entire scene. Okay? A few paragraphs later, Zaden says, quote, I know what you're thinking. Then Violet says, quote, you have no idea what I'm thinking. And once again, immediately she thinks, traitor, not an italics. Then when it switches to Zaden's point of view at the end of Fourth Wing, he says, quote, sleep is where I hear her heartbreaking scream, hear her cry that Liam died, hear her call me a fucking traitor over and over. She never called him that when where I was like, sir, I feel like.

[Hannah]

That wicked meme, you can't look at me and tell me that I'm wrong. Yeah, that's what I feel like.

[Carly]

No, for real, though, I'm just like, maybe he just claimed it was intentions to make her feel, like, less panicked in that moment. Maybe he genuinely doesn't know that his signet is progressing. But I'm like, come on, dude, you can read thoughts.

[Hannah]

I mean, I think I've made it abundantly clear that this is, like, the thing I stand by. It is not just Zayden. I think that a lot of signets, as we understand them, are going to change and evolve with the ability to hone skills like these are. They're in school still. You know, Zaden's just barely out. And again, he doesn't have a teacher. He doesn't have anyone alive to tell him, which he says himself. And so for me, it's just like Rebecca's painted this picture that just for a little while, makes Violet not just absolutely terrified of Zaden, because she is at first, right? And then she kind of contemplates, oh, well, it's just intentions. You know, she kind of gets away with it like that. And I really like the idea that she can compel people, because I think that once she realizes and Zaden realizes that he can read people's actual thoughts, that her ability to compel people against their will will make them both able to understand each other in ways that no one else would be able to. All right, now I'll rest my case.

[Kinsey]

Okay? Okay.

[Carly]

And this is less of a theory and more just an observation because I get questions all the time like, how do you know that Xaden's reading intentions? But a lot of people also think he stopped using his second signet after Violet and Zaden first kissed. But I went back to each moment I suspected, and I took notes on it. And he did continue using it throughout Fourth Wing and Iron Flame. I think he used it up to 25 times in both books. And if you count, like, stretch situations where I'm like, it could just be like, normal relationship, like, I know what you like, then it would be up to 32 times. But what I found was anytime Violet felt like a prickling or a tingling on her scalp or she felt like a shiver go down her spine, that was indicating that Zayden was reading her intentions. As Hannah mentioned, Zaden also would verbally respond to her questions out loud when they were only just thoughts inside of her head.

[Hannah]

Rebecca has confirmed in that same interview where she talks about Violet's dirty thoughts that it's the scalp prickling moments are all him doing that. I don't think Zayden was lying when he said he stopped intentionally doing it, but I do think he kept doing it. I think that that can be explained by him intentionally using it to read her versus him doing it subconsciously, or Violet sending her intentions to him because of their bond, connection, influence, which Zayden explains better himself. Quote, but I have always lacked a certain element of self control when it comes to you, and our bond makes it way too easy for you to send your intentions without even realizing it. So I just think that that's what's going on there.

[Carly]

Definitely. I think that he was using Dane as a reason to get her to enforce her shields. But I think that was also to benefit himself because was just tired of receiving it.

[Hannah]

Well, I think it was also because he knew the dangers firsthand of what someone else could possibly be doing without anyone else having to know. Because the idea was, oh, we would know if there was an intense out and about because they would reveal themselves and then we'd kill them. But Zaden has been through and has learned somehow. I wonder if it's connected to his grandfather and possibly his ability to read intentions or minds. But I think Sigeil could have helped him learn how to do that. And he realized that, really, it's not as hard to hide as people walk around, shields down, believing.

[Carly]

All right, let's tie this back into the marked ones. Did you guys remember what Carly was saying about the marked ones?

[Kinsey]

We are talking about Zaden's first and maybe third signet.

[Carly]

I'm ready.

[Hannah]

Hear her out. Yeah, hear her out.

[Kinsey]

This is truly, I think, my favorite theory that I have, so I'm excited to talk about it. I believe his first signet is to nullify power. Violet's signet is pure power. The balance to that, the counter to that, would be to nullify power. And there is some evidence for this in the book, when Violet is using her power, she's practicing some of her lesser magic. It says, there's a crackle in my head like the dying embers of a fire as my power brushes Zaden's hand. Dying ember of a fire kind of sounds like her power is brushing up against something that's dampening it in iron flame. When Cat is messing with her head at the Viscounts, it says, just like that, the hottest of my jealousy, the infuriating insecurity that had me second guessing myself, is gone. It's as if the wall of shadow he's thrown up. What did you do? I break the kiss, breathing deeply, and he leans his forward against mine, keeping us cocooned in total darkness. So when his shadows are wrapped around them, all of a sudden, Cat's power can't touch Violet.

[Carly]

That one had me convinced.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I am convinced. Zaden's first signet is to nullify power. It makes sense when you think about them as being in balance. If her first signet is really pure power, is has to be to nullify power. It has to be.

[Hannah]

I love this theory.

[Kinsey]

I love it so much. But we also see it in the Cosmo teaser. When Zaden's shadows wrap around her, she feels it dampen everything. And I was like, that was the final nail in the coffin for me. I was like, that's what it is. I'd had this little note, these two little quotes, waiting for one more piece of evidence. And that Cosmo teaser, when he wraps his shadows around her and yanks her out of the way and she feels her power die down, I'm like, that's it. His true signet is to nullify power. So I'm convinced.

[Hannah]

So it blew my mind when I first heard this theory from. I believe it was an Instagram reel, is what I is How I learned about it.

[Kinsey]

Probably mine.

[Hannah]

It was. No, it was. I think I commented on it, and I was like, I'm going to need you to explain what?

[Kinsey]

We're going to need to talk.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then look where that got us after that. It's one of those things that when you realize it, you can't unsee it while you're reading. And the way that it just ties so well to balance Violets. And let's think about for a second when they're having sex.

[Carly]

I'll think about that.

[Kinsey]

Violence.

[Hannah]

Pure power. Let's think about it. Let's think real hard about it. Real, real hard about it. Maybe we should put a spoiler warning specifically for dick jokes. But when they're having sex and she is, he nullifies lightning specifically. That in itself alone is suspicious now that we know she's pure power. Because even shadows lightning goes through the dark all the time, outside. The fact that he is able to nullify that alone, all the other things aside would convince me. And I cannot believe that I didn't pick it up. I'm kicking myself. What do you mean? I love it.

[Kinsey]

These two theories are the hills. I'm willing to die on his first signet and his third possible signet.

[Hannah]

That's the one I was saying you guys needed to really hear her out for. I was. I was like, what? Like, are we just handing out signets, like, left and right?

[Kinsey]

But yes, I'm okay with that because I love them. I find them fascinating. But I am convinced Zaden has a third signet. We talked about the marked ones, relics, and that if they have a second signet, that would mean Zaden has to have a third. Right? He has to have his relic signet. I am convinced Zaden is a storm wielder. And when I say I'm willing to die on this hill, I mean it. Okay. The storms were so prevalent in iron flame that I thought they might have something to do with Violet signet. But then I remembered parapet.

[Carly]

Mm.

[Kinsey]

Fourth wing parapet. Violet locks eyes with Satan and it starts raining. He sees her. He's furious. And as she steps out onto the parapet, the storm gets even stronger. She even says that it's like the storm arrived to make the hardest test of her life even harder. And as soon as she steps off that parapet, the storm stops. As soon as Aiden can't see her.

[Hannah]

Anymore, which I would like to say was so suspicious to everyone reading that we all thought that it could be Lilith, her mom, But Violet herself says in iron flame, that it was not her mom.

[Kinsey]

Yep. And then I started thinking about the fact that Violet goes to the viscounts and there is another suspicious storm. She goes to fight the Venin in the amphitheater, and as soon as the Venin pops out, it starts pouring right when Zaden would have seen the Venin and it popping out. And he was furious in this moment as well. And as soon as she kills the Venin, the rain stops. And I'm like, this is weird. This is just like parapet. And I'm like, But Violet didn't have a signet of parapet, but Zaden does. And I'm convinced he's a storm wielder and does not know. And that every time he's very angry or very emotional, it causes storms and he doesn't know it. And potentially he's just amplifying storms that are already there. Because both of those days it was stormy, but it was not raining. And then all of a sudden it just starts pouring the second he's furious again, because I don't think he knows he has it. So he hasn't been training it, which.

[Hannah]

I think would actually help it out a little bit to make more sense. Because in any emotional state throughout any other point in the book, why didn't it start storming? So maybe he's just amplifying it.

[Kinsey]

Yes. So I think he's just making those storms worse. And that is not the only storms that happen throughout this iron flame. I mean, there are a few there. Violet specifically notices a storm rolling in as Zaden is heading towards Basgaeth. And we know he's furious because his commander kept him from leaving for an extra day. And the intensic mention when they go outside, she realizes a storm is rolling in when she confronts him about having a second signet. And they're inside. But when they have to go outside because they have to go put the wards up, she notices a storm is rolling in. When Zaden is all conflicted because of all of this, there's a storm rolling in, there's more, but there's just too many. And if Lilith was the one whose dragon actually helped kill Fen, he would be a storm wielder like Lilith. And it also fits into motivations because Rebecca Yaros talks about why Indarna was a Scorpio tail. She's like, well, if you saw the thing you love most be poisoned, wouldn't you become the poison to protect them? And would you not become the storm to survive the storm? Because he is furious at Lilith. So it all fits in with Motivations. I'm convinced he's a storm wielder.

[Carly]

I was already convinced, but that last quote got me because I've heard this theory before and the first time you told it to me, I was like, Absolutely, 100%, I'm in. But that last quote, because I noticed Parapet and the Viscount, but not those other instances. And I did not catch that one quote. At least not thinking about this third signet.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, I'm convinced he's a storm wielder and he does not know.

[Carly]

To be clear, do we think that we will get a confirmation in Onyx Storm that other marked ones do have a second signet, or do we think that Xaden will discover it?

[Hannah]

Depends on what you mean by confirmation. Confirmation for us. More hints or.

[Carly]

Yeah, I need a definitive.

[Kinsey]

Yes, I believe we're gonna find out because this leads us into our next topic. I believe the title of Onyx Storm is Zaden. Our onyx eyed storm wielder could see it.

[Carly]

I could see it.

[Hannah]

I always thought of it because of his onyx eyes, but now because I just thought it was like, nope, I.

[Kinsey]

Think we're gonna quite literally have a storm. You doing okay over there, Hannah?

[Hannah]

I'm so impressed. I love all of these theories. I think you have me convinced. I think I understood the way that you broke it down here. After hearing you talk about it in Zaden's Dear Dragons Readers episode, I think that I was like, okay, what are you talking about? And I was really skeptical. And then I was like, okay, I could see that. But this, I think, just did it for me. I don't know how else you'd explain all of that.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, it's a lot of storms to explain away in really convenient times. That all seem to be tied to Zaden being upset or angry. It's just. There's too many coincidences. And it just reminds me of the foreshadowing. The same foreshadowing she did for Jack being Venon, where we see him tumble down the mountain, but then we know later on he walked out of that and we see the, you know, Taryn collapses the tower and resin and the Venon still walks out. It's like that similar type of foreshadowing from Parapet to the Viscount. It just. I just. I just love it so much. It's delicious. I want it to be true. And I am convinced. And I will say, of all my theories, it's the only one my husband believes. When he buys in, he's like, oh, yeah, no, that works. I'm like, okay.

[Hannah]

He thinks it's cool.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. He's like.

[Hannah]

He's a shadow daddy, a storm daddy, and a mind daddy. Like all the things which actually, I was going to say, can we take a step back here? We're going to do what we did when we talked about Violet signets in general, our little duo here. What we have established as far as what we believe, because at this point, I do believe these things that you have convinced me into is that our power couple, in six ways more than one, has the truthsayer ability, which can both convince people to tell you the truth or detect when they tell you the truth, compel people, has a sprinkle of precognition in there or manifestation. All right, that's just one. That's one umbrella of abilities that we're convinced of pure power, which I am convinced is not just wielding lightning, but also energy fields, sensing other power.

[Kinsey]

Well, Violet herself says her power so varied.

[Hannah]

So those two alone are really powerful. Then we've got extended use of Andarna's feathertail gift of time and slowing time. That is a package of immense power. Now, her counterpart is a shadow Daddy who can nullify with his shadows power. That's alone fucking badass and dangerous. He is an intrinsic that we believe can read minds, not just fucking intentions. And that he also is a storm wielder.

[Kinsey]

Yes.

[Hannah]

And can amplify storms that exist based on these emotions, which I just wanted to lay that out there and be like, we are all definitively saying that.

[Kinsey]

Yep. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yeah. I fucking love it. I'm a Powers Girly. I would rather my main characters be overpowered. But my apprehension comes with Rebecca saying she didn't like overpowered characters. And now I'm like, girl, then what is going on?

[Carly]

They have their flaws too.

[Hannah]

It's gonna have to be some significant limitations. Like maybe someone being vented and having to block out their own power. Huh.

[Kinsey]

Well. And I don't think they can be overpowered comparatively to the people around them. And so I think we're gonna see some other very powerful people. And I also think we're gonna see some checks and balances and limitations within these signets. So, yeah, I definitely think we're gonna see that. But yeah, that's where what can't they.

[Hannah]

Do between the two of them is.

[Carly]

Basically that they can't finish an argument.

[Kinsey]

No, that's accurate, unfortunately. All right. I gave my Onyx Storm title Theory Kinsey. Take it away.

[Carly]

Yeah. So I do also think Zaden ties in. That was one of the first Things I thought of. But I also thought that Onyx Storm could relate to Wyvern. For one, Myrrah and Violet found onyx stones with runes inside Wyvern. And it's safe to assume those runes were created by Venon. And that might be why the use of runes are banned for riders within Navarre. Wyvern were also compared to storms multiple times. In chapter 56 of Iron Flame, Violet observes the roaring grows louder, like a thousand soft drops of rain on a roof. Then a few paragraphs later, says, my stomach drops as I realize that the approaching gray cloud isn't a storm and that roaring in my ears is actually wingbeats. Then in chapter 61 of Iron Flame, Violet describes the incoming battle as a massive cloud of Wyvern. So maybe Onyx Storm refers to the inevitable battles of riders and dragons against Venon and Wyvern. I think it could also tie into Zaden, too, because he has that internal conflict with him also being a Venon. But I do think that it's just very interesting that she kept referring to Wyvern as storm clouds. And we know that they have onyx stones within them. I don't know.

[Kinsey]

I definitely think that's very plausible. When I first read it, my brother and I actually talked about those two items a lot. And me and him started to theorize that perhaps an Onyx storm would be some sort of weapon of the Venin. And maybe it'll be a combination. Who knows? Maybe we're all partly right.

[Carly]

We know for sure the book will be about Venon, Period.

[Kinsey]

For sure. That theory we can stand on.

[Carly]

Yes. Just like I can also stand on the theory that Violet and Zaden are endgame. I don't know if mates exist in this world for humans and writers. Zaden and Violet definitely act like it. I thought it was really weird that their eye colors represent the colors of the other person's dragons, because Zaden's eyes have onyx, like for Taryn, and he has gold flecks for Andarna. But Violet's eyes are a bluish color, like Sigeil. So that's.

[Hannah]

Shut up.

[Carly]

Yeah, dude.

[Hannah]

I've never put that together.

[Carly]

Yeah, it's super weird. They're also very possessive of each other. They repeatedly say mine. There was also a really interesting point where they're, like, scenting each other. And Violet was even like, did I just scent him? So I don't know. I think they could be mates. If that's a thing that exists in this world. If it doesn't, fine. They're still endgame.

[Hannah]

If it exists. I think they are. Rebecca has repeatedly emphasized that she writes Romantasy and has said that there would be no book without Zaden.

[Carly]

Thank God.

[Hannah]

And the follow up question from the interviewer was no series without Xaden. And she was kind of tricked and put into it. She was cagey. But come on, no series without Zaden. Especially if your theories on what Onyx Storm is about stand. So for any of you out there saying that you don't want Zaden to remain the love interest, we are going to pretend you don't exist anyways. But I do want to say on the topic of Violet and Zaden and what that will look like in Onyx Storm, I have a feeling, a terrible, terrible gut feeling that Zaden is going to pull a Taylor Swift's down Bad, which is a song where she says how dare you think it's romantic leaving me safe and stranded. I heard that lyric and I thought, oh my God, that's what Zayden's gonna do. I think that he's going to leave her in some capacity in the name of keeping her safe from himself out of love. And I don't want to believe that, but I think it's setting up for that.

[Carly]

I think he might try to pull a twilight new moon or down bad situation, but because Violet is so determined to save him, she's just gonna follow him around. He's gonna try, but she won't let him.

[Hannah]

I hope you're right.

[Carly]

Me too.

[Hannah]

But the thing is, it's not Violet I'm worried about. It's Rebecca. And it's her whole. How do you keep the couple apart? Together and apart. Together and apart. Five books. That's the apart that I see unfolding. And I hope it doesn't last for long.

[Carly]

You have to remember too, their dragons are bonded. Sigel's not going to want to leave Tern because Zaden's throwing a tantrum.

[Hannah]

But Sigeil is throwing a tantrum and.

[Carly]

Sigail's mad at Zaden, so I highly doubt she's going to do any favors for him and go travel across the continent to go distance himself.

[Hannah]

But does Sigale have to be with him now?

[Carly]

Well, if all Venom can distance wield, then no. But if he needs some form of transportation, it's going to take him forever to cross the continent without a dragon. So Violet could see still follow him.

[Hannah]

That's fair. I just think it doesn't even have to be too far. I think it could just be a situation of like Arisha Navarre, like, he stays under the wards or, you know, like. I don't know. I hope it's not the case. I just. I see it coming, like, it's like coming right for me, you know? I hope it's not. I hated New Moon because of it. Anyways.

[Kinsey]

I think it's possible that we could see Violet being the one to leave to be like. Feel like she needs to leave to find something to protect them all or to go get the cure or. Or something of that nature. But I could see her being the one to bounce, to like, think that.

[Hannah]

She'S not just not go together.

[Kinsey]

That would be too easy, Hannah.

[Carly]

I feel like they have enough problems and enough conflict to let them stay together.

[Hannah]

That's where I'm at. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I do want to circle back around to Kinsey's Point about a bond. Some sort of fated mates type situation that seems to be happening with them. And you know, Rebecca has said that she wanted a twist on a fated mates where the dragons are fated mates. But I do think there is something interesting happening between Zaden and Violet within this. Because I do think that their bond can exist outside of the dragons. Because when she is dosed with the serum during the interrogation and Zaden comes to get her before she gets the antidote, they speak through the bond. I wanted that reaction so bad, I didn't put any of these notes in until the last second.

[Hannah]

I was wondering what you were typing.

[Kinsey]

Over there about Zaden thinks in italics. I don't know where I can touch you. Because she's so injured and it's in his head. And she says, that's fine, I promise out loud. But she is dosed with the serum. At this point, she does not have access to any of her magic. How is she talking to Zaden?

[Hannah]

He is an intrinsic.

[Kinsey]

But he's the one who thinks it. And she's the one that responds. Yeah, it's like she's hearing him.

[Carly]

Look, I love faded mace, so I'm down.

[Kinsey]

I'm sure there'll be some sort of twist on it or something, But I do think that their bond can exist outside of their dragons at this point.

[Hannah]

I hope you're right, because I'm so scared that we're gonna lose the dragons and I don't want to lose the bond. But I'm also scared that you're right because that means that we're likely going to lose Taryn and. Or Sigail. And Sigail. Right. They both go together. And so I hope you're wrong. Because I need Rebecca to keep them around specifically so that I understand we keep the excuse for the.

[Carly]

I hope you're right. I've already accepted it.

[Kinsey]

But I love it when I can surprise you.

[Hannah]

I think the reaction was worthy.

[Kinsey]

It was everything I wanted. I don't know how rapid fire this rapid fire section is going to be, but we have a bunch of rapid fire theories that we have really just truly based on vibes. Little to no evidence, no receipts really to be shown. We just. We just had some little thoughts in here that we want to share with you. And I think Kinsey should kick us off.

[Carly]

I think that Papa Sorrengel's research will be hidden within Violet's other books. Just like how the Fables of the Baron hid a warning letter for Violet.

[Kinsey]

Love it. Okay. Felix is a truthsayer and that is why Violet told him the feathertail secrets.

[Hannah]

I'm kind of convinced of that one. I'm not gonna lie. All right. I think that Professor Kaori's handwritten manual on the personal habits and flaws of all active dragons that a squad in first wing stole back in fourth wing is going to come back up and it's not going to be pretty for our dragons.

[Carly]

Ooh, speaking of professors, I think Professor Devera has a mind signet. She knew who Violet was at the first battle brief and was also the one to spread propaganda and Iron Flame.

[Kinsey]

Love it. Love that you love Devera.

[Carly]

I need to know. What is it?

[Kinsey]

I think Jack is an Intentic.

[Carly]

We are all fucked if he is.

[Hannah]

I do not like. I do not like that idea.

[Kinsey]

I know. I'm sorry. Also, the wards in Orisha were designed to allow Griffin flyers to wield. Because Lira designed the wards in Orisha different and that's why the Wardstone and the runes on them look different.

[Hannah]

Hard agree. That one I like.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. All right.

[Hannah]

I feel like you're going to agree with me on this one. We'll see. I think that Mira and Serena are enemies to lovers. Mira is infamous for slaughtering Griffin flyers. And I think it would be so morbidly poetic that they fall in love.

[Carly]

I would love that. I would say true enemies to lovers.

[Hannah]

True enemies to lovers.

[Kinsey]

I would love this.

[Carly]

Speaking of lovers, I think that Kat will start a relationship with either Auric or Dain. I think that she would get thirsty for Auric's crown the moment she finds out he's actually a prince. And I also could see Cat and Dane working really well together, just personality wise.

[Hannah]

I'm adding an addendum Kat and Holden.

[Carly]

Kat and Halden could work either of the princess, but she does know Aric because they're already in a squad.

[Kinsey]

Very true. And I think Jack and Caroline Ashton are a couple and she will try to break him out of Bazga.

[Hannah]

Oh, yeah, that bitch. It's always her. All right, on that. There was a suspicious moment back in fourth wing at the first war game where Liam mentions that Day holds a grudge against Glean, Caroline Ashton's dragon. And he's talking about how Day can't wait to kick Glean's ass. And that is the scene where Jack attacks Liam, almost killing him. So I think that Jack was doing that, defending his lover Caroline.

[Kinsey]

That's the appropriate response. Yeah.

[Carly]

I think that Cat will actually become a decent human being. And the Flyers will join Basgaeth to train to fight the Venon.

[Kinsey]

Love it.

[Hannah]

That's not a far stretch for me. I think you're onto it. I really. She's. She's growing on me.

[Carly]

She is. She's still so obnoxious in the beginning.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

This is hard to read at first. I still feel visceral jealousy over, like, the three interactions we get.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Cat so divisive. Violet describes Zaden as one of those poisonous flowers I've read about from the Cygny forest to the east. This flower might be part of the poison, the venom.

[Hannah]

I'm gonna have to go back. Do you recall the context for that?

[Kinsey]

It's in fourth wing.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Somewhere near the beginning.

[Hannah]

Oh. She's saying, like, oh, he's dangerous, but he's a feeling.

[Kinsey]

He's describing him. Yeah. Beautiful, but poisonous.

[Hannah]

That sounds about Rebecca.

[Kinsey]

Yup. All right.

[Hannah]

I did not write this one out because this one. I wanted to see your reactions. I think that Taryn and Scale are going to have a hatchling.

[Carly]

Aw, I love that.

[Hannah]

And if Kinsey. I know it. Sue is so, so cute. Until I continue. If Kinsey is right and we're going to lose them, I think it's going to happen first and we're going to keep the hatchling around. And maybe Aunt Darna takes it under her wing in the same, like, passing down the tradition. I don't like it, but I think there's been multiple conversations, like, one conversation emphasizing that Andarna is not their hatchling is one thing, but, like, it's multiple. And I just think, how many times can they have sex in a 50 year or so time span? And, like, do they take birth control?

[Kinsey]

Like, I don't know.

[Hannah]

It's not like they plan this. Maybe they do. Maybe. Maybe they have like special dragon shit. But I'm just pointing it out that that would be awfully convenient and I think they deserve it before they die.

[Kinsey]

That would be sweet.

[Carly]

It would. It would hurt, but it would be good.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Carly]

I think that the reason Cherum is illegal is because it causes red eyes and leadership doesn't know how to tell between being high versus who's venin.

[Kinsey]

I'm 100% with this one.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Now 100%. They do not burn items. For Malik, it is to ensure personal journals and folklore that could have information on the Venin is destroyed.

[Carly]

Agreed.

[Hannah]

I'm changing mine real quick because I had that. I think Violet's going to turn Venin for love. That is not a shocker. I really do think that's going to happen. I don't want it to happen, but I'm going to actually say that I think that not burning an item for Malik is actually going to have a real life repercussion for a loved one of that character that died or somehow in the afterlife. Now, I don't know how we would know that, but that's my counter theory.

[Carly]

Going off vibes. All right.

[Hannah]

Vibes.

[Carly]

Speaking of Malik, when Violet saves someone, they die later because Malik demands balance.

[Kinsey]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Yep.

[Kinsey]

Yep. I'm on this one. Other dragons from Indarna's Den are hiding in plain sight, pretending to be other dragon breeds.

[Hannah]

I love that one.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Especially. And I think you've said this before, Carly. If they're in the Isle Kingdoms or wherever they're at, maybe they are not known as the Seventh Den. Like maybe that is a huge secret. That maybe. And Darna is about to unravel.

[Kinsey]

I think if we encounter them, it'll be like out on the Isles. Not like the. The dragons that are there. Yeah. At Baz Gaieth. But yes, I do think that's going to happen.

[Carly]

Heck yeah.

[Kinsey]

I love that one.

[Hannah]

I knew we had a lot of theories between the three of us. I didn't know how many y'all would convince me of. But I'm really curious, listeners, if you have some theories that we have not pointed out, there might be reason for it. DM us let us know. We could have missed things. Which is probably very true given the fact that we have three more Easter egg filled books to go.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, well, and I'll point out I have read each book 12 times and I find something new every time I read it. So it never stops. Wow.

[Carly]

I'm on my fourth read of fourth wing, not 12.

[Kinsey]

You'll get there. You'll catch up.

[Carly]

I will.

[Kinsey]

Trust me. Nobody needs to read it that many times. I just love it. It's my favorite book.

[Hannah]

Well, it's always so fun to reread after you get the next one. So we'll be doing another full reread here soon after we get the the third, which we'll have plenty of time for before the fourth.

[Kinsey]

I'll stop rereading them when I stop finding new stuff. But yeah, I keep finding new stuff so I keep rereading them. And that wraps up our Onyx Storm theories. Thank you so much for listening. This is our last planned episode until Onyx Storm releases. We will be doing an initial reactions episode after we read Onyx Storm before taking flight into our season three on Chapters by Chapters Style Deep Dive of Onyx Storm.

[Carly]

If you we're so close. If you are here for Onyx Storm prep content and want more, we have already released bonus episodes breaking down the Onyx Storm blurb, the Onyx Storm back jacket excerpt, the Onyx Storm sneak peek released in Cosmo Magazine, our Deep Dive on Imogen, our recap on 4th Wing, our recap on Iron Flame, and a two part episode on hints and clues that Rebecca Yarrows is dropped in interviews and Q&As for what to expect in Onyx Storm.

[Hannah]

If you somehow made it to part three of Theories and missed part one and two, go check those out as well. And if you haven't already, check out our first season Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive on Fourth Wing through the lens of Iron Flame. There are over 30 hours of binge worthy content to explore, including summaries, theories, easter eggs, foreshadowing, signet speculation, fangirling and plenty more. Beware, those episodes do have Iron Flame spoilers and they have timestamps down in the show notes in every episode if you'd like to jump around.

[Kinsey]

If you are looking for ways to support us so we can continue to make high quality content, please leave us a review, check out our Patreon, give us a follow on socials and share to all of your Fourth Wing friends.

[Carly]

As always, we encourage you to email us your thoughts, theories and suggestions. Drop them below if you're watching on YouTube or join us over on Discord.

[Hannah]

Until next time, Dearest fantasy readers, prepare yourselves to have Onyx Storm in your hands so so soon as we continue our journey through the Empyrean series. Yay. Oh my gosh, it's so close.

[Kinsey]

We did it.

[Hannah]

Those three episodes on the Theories have been my most favorite episodes I've ever done.

[Kinsey]

Today's was my favorite.

[Hannah]

So fun.

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