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Dear Fantasy Reader
Hannah Nicole Maehrer - Accomplice to the Villain | A Dear Fantasy Author Interview
02:03:55
🎤 Recorded before release day — one of Hannah Nicole Maehrer’s first interviews about Accomplice to the Villain! In this special Dear Fantasy Author episode, hosts Hannah, Kinsey, and Karly sit down with Hannah Nicole Maehrer to get...
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- [00:00]
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- [00:34]
Hannah
Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to our Dear Fantasy Author interview where we get to talk with the brilliant minds behind our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.
- [00:44]
Kinsey
I'm Kinsey.
- [00:45]
Carly
And I'm Carly.
- [00:47]
Hannah
Today we are chatting with Hannah Nicole Mayer, author of the Romantasy series Assistant and the Villain, about her upcoming August 5th release of the third book, Accomplice to the Villain.
- [01:01]
Carly
The first portion of this episode will be spoiler free, but we will be diving into spoilers in the second section before our bonus segments. Swifty Mania, Are youe Smarter Than a Fangirl? Trivia and the Reader's Letter to Close, all of which are not spoiler free. You can find the timestamps for each section down in the Show Notes.
- [01:17]
Kinsey
Due to the nature of this series, this podcast is rated R for content and language. If you'd like to watch this episode ad free and full video or audio only if you prefer, it's available now on Patreon and we've dropped that link in the show notes as well.
- [01:32]
Hannah
Please welcome Hannah Nicole Mayer. Hannah, thank you so much for joining us.
- [01:38]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm very excited.
- [01:42]
Carly
Yeah, very excited.
- [01:44]
Hannah
Very, very much so. We are going to start out with a little icebreaker. We are huge Romantasy fangirls here. What's one thing, book related or not, that you are an unashamed fangirl of? And there are no wrong answers.
- [01:58]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh. Oh my God. Oh. I have to think of something specific because I want to just be like every Romantasy book I've ever read. Ever.
- [02:07]
Hannah
Well, we kind of could say the same.
- [02:09]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So I love when they're like when two characters are like trapped together in a room. Obviously if you're reading. Yeah.
- [02:19]
Kinsey
Yeah, I love that too.
- [02:21]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
You just like slip that in there. Yeah. I love when they have like any cause to be like close together. Like in book one. That was something that I was really important to me to keep, which was them in the closet, like, pressed together. I'm like, any excuse to get two characters in a situation where they wouldn't normally find themselves so that they have to confront being that close together. Oh, it's so good. Every time. I'll read it a thousand times and still be like, ah, it's slash every single time. It's good.
- [02:52]
Hannah
That's got to be a micro trope, right? Like, in closed proximity.
- [02:56]
Kinsey
The forced proximity.
- [02:57]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [02:58]
Hannah
In closed proximity.
- [03:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [03:03]
Hannah
My friend did that.
- [03:04]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Perfect. Excellent. Excellent. Amazing.
- [03:07]
Kinsey
Well, I'm a fan girl of that, too, so thank you.
- [03:11]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I love it.
- [03:13]
Kinsey
For listeners who are just meeting you, can you share a little bit about your writing journey and what it was like going from book Talk star to debuting as a number one New York Times bestselling author?
- [03:23]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Oh, my God. It's still something that is, like, I'm still processing it. I think even years later, it still hasn't, like, fully sunk in yet. But I started making assistant to the villain TikToks, like the TikTok series about four years ago. It was, like, four years ago in June. Just crazy. I, like, remember the day I posted the first episode. I was at work. I was working as a nanny for twins. I posted the video, put my phone down later, got them down for their nap, came downstairs and, like, checked, and the video was, like, you know, popping off, going viral. And I was so excited because I loved filming that video so much. It was so much fun. It was, like, all the things I really like about a story, which is humor and silliness and poking fun at the things that I like, really enjoy in a book, especially villains. I love villains. Obviously based my whole career. Yes, I kept making them, and I was really lucky that I had built, like, this little niche following of people that really enjoyed the series. And I kind of started developing the characters with each video that I posted until it was just such a big story in my brain, I couldn't not write it. So I sat down months into making videos, almost every single day for, like, four or five months. I sat down and wrote the first three chapters. And it was the most words I've ever written in one sitting with the most ease. I think I wrote 10,000 words the first time I sat down to write it. And it was, like, hunched over my laptop kind of writing where I'm in a bubble and if anybody disturbs me, I will hiss like a cat at you. And it was beautiful. It was, like, everything I wanted to put to the page or, like, anything that I couldn't put in a video because it's only me. And the camera was suddenly free for me to explore on the page. I kept writing it. I shared my journey to writing with all of the people following along with the skit. So it was really special that I got to share it with everybody. That following summer, I signed with my literary agent, because I finished the book about six months later. And then the following, I think, like, another six or seven months went by, and I signed with my publisher. And then that following August, assistant to the villain released. So it's been like a whirlwind, but it's, like, absolutely in the most cheesy way possible. In the most cringe way possible. It is like a full dream come true. I encourage cringe. I encourage cheesy because I just think it's fun. And it is. It's truly, like, dream come true. Pinch me. Like, I can't believe this is my life. I'm so incredibly lucky and privileged and grateful, and it's all amazing. Like, all of it.
- [06:06]
Hannah
Congratulations.
- [06:09]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
You guys are sweet. Thank you.
- [06:12]
Carly
I love that. That's just such. I can't imagine being like, I'm just gonna make this little skit, and then it's like, a whole series and.
- [06:19]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [06:19]
Hannah
A new life trajectory.
- [06:21]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. It completely changed the course of my life, that one video. And it's. That's why I think that anybody, if anybody's debating posting something or. Or debating an idea that they really like, like, lean fully into it, because you never know what's going to happen. Like, you never know what direction your life's going to take. And always, like, always post that thing, even if you think it's cringey or ridiculous, because 12 out of 10 times, it's not. And it's just fun. Yeah.
- [06:52]
Kinsey
And that's how we met. We all met on the online book space, and we have a podcast together, and we're best friends.
- [06:59]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That's amazing. That's how I met all my best friends, too, on the book space.
- [07:03]
Kinsey
I thought you guys met in prison.
- [07:05]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. I, like, was like, oh, I wonder what she said that I was in for, like. And she was like, public intoxication. I was like, why would you do me like that? I'm like, is this because when I drink with my friends, I tend to, like, sprint away? Like, I get an urge to, like, feel the wind in my hair. You're one of those. I just want to run. Like, I truly. Somebody was like, we're going to start Tying a balloon on you so that we can see you in a crowd. They'll just like stick up in the.
- [07:39]
Kinsey
Air and little bells.
- [07:40]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed. I. At this point, I'm like, you all have my location. You could find me just fine. Like, it would not be a big deal. Yeah. But prior to prison, we met on Booktok, but Stacey and I both met, like before we became authors, before she put out Ledge and well before I started making the assistant to the villain skits. So she's kind of been with me through all of it, which is incredible. That's awesome.
- [08:14]
Hannah
I did not know that.
- [08:15]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, I met her before I met my fiance. Like, I've known Stacy for like four and a half years now. I think like a long time. And then our whole friend group kind of came together in the next few years and now it's like the six of us are like, we're all so codependent and obsessed with each other. It's beautiful.
- [08:33]
Hannah
I have so many questions, but I'm actually going to wait until our joint interview, which we are so, so excited for.
- [08:41]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I can't wait. That'll be so fun.
- [08:43]
Carly
Oh, we are so excited for that. If you had to explain assistant to the villain series for a brand new reader, what would you say?
- [08:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, I would describe it as a Once Upon a Time meets the Office, about a morally gray fantasy villain's office in the kingdom of Renadon and the dynamic between grumpy villain and his very bubbly sunshine assistant trying to solve who in the office is betraying them to the heroes while also discovering untold prophecies in the kingdom of Randadan that is threatening the magic.
- [09:17]
Hannah
That was so smooth.
- [09:18]
Carly
Yeah, that was such a perfect little.
- [09:20]
Hannah
It's never pitch.
- [09:21]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I love it. That was crazy. I swear, every time I've tried to do this, it's like it's a book about a villain and he lives in a forest and he has. Jesus. You nailed that. And he wears pretty skin and like, that is typically how. That was crazy. I don't even know how that happened.
- [09:41]
Hannah
You're like, who was that?
- [09:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Something just. Someone just took over my body. Someone much better spoken than I.
- [09:48]
Carly
We'll have to get you a recording of that and you can just play it anytime somebody asks you the question, please.
- [09:54]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That would be great.
- [09:57]
Carly
This is a listener submitted question. Can you describe to us accomplice to the villain, which is book three for everyone listening in three words.
- [10:05]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
In three words. Oh, my God. Chaos, adventure and romance. I think can confirm. Perfect yeah.
- [10:19]
Hannah
So you actually already answered this next question about what pulled you into the world first and what made you want to write it so ahead of the game. So I'm going to change this up just a little bit. How were you inspired by your own family and friendships going into writing this series?
- [10:36]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my gosh, I love that question. Cause I think that my family, my friends, live in everything that I write and everything I create. Since I was really young, that was always the case. And I think it's because I started storytelling before I could even read. And it was with. Typically, I used to stand on our fireplace, and I would recite Goldilocks and the Three Bears. That was my favorite story to tell. That was, like, my og. And then my dad and I, before bed, would always talk about. My dad made up a story about Larry the bug who lived on under our swing set. And we kind of got to, like, tell the story together. So he'd be like, what do you want to happen next? And, you know, that was my first experience, like, being able to control the narrative of a story. And it was so addicting. And I fell in love with it, like, pretty much almost immediately. And I have a really, really big, very loud, very loving family. They are the funniest people I know. They are characters in and of themselves. Like, I'll bring people over. People don't understand why I'm so loud until they come and meet my family, and they're like, oh, you make so much sense now, because if you're not yelling, no one's gonna hear you. Cause everybody's, like, a big personality. They're all so hilarious. Like, I am the least funny person in my family. Like, everyone is hysterical. So, like, the quick banter in the book, that is, like, directly the way I was raised. That's what I observed growing up. The quick back and forth was something that was always within my house, which was, like, just such a joy to grow up around. And, yeah, I think that I. I love writing Found Family because I've. I've found quite the found family with my five best girlfriends, who I'm endless loop texting, like, all day. And they definitely play a big role. Actually, I think in book one, there's a line that I said, like, that's specifically for them. And it's Evie noting, like, everyone in the office, like, while they were drinking wine together. And it was one of my favorite scenes to write because it was just all of them interacting. I said, like, a found family. And she says, like, they were all well worth the Wait. And I told them, like, that line just made me think of them, like, specifically because I felt like, yeah, I felt like that was. That was specific to them for sure. So, yeah, they live in everything I do.
- [12:46]
Hannah
That might be the cutest response I've ever heard to anyone.
- [12:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, that's so sweet. We love that.
- [12:55]
Kinsey
In your book. Acknowledgments, you thank Evie, your main character, for getting you through hard moments, and we know she was conception on Booktok. How have your characters and the Booktok community helped support you and your journey?
- [13:08]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
There's really nothing more humbling than when somebody watches something you're doing or reads. Even just, like, a line of something that you've written and says, I'm excited to read this, or, I can't wait until this book is out. And I can't express how motivating that was when I was writing it to finish it, because in my head I was like, there's people that actually want to read this. And I'm having so much fun with it. It feels like such an anomaly because it's, like, my favorite thing in the entire world. And it's carried over in a way that there's other people that really, really love it, too. So I think that. That having that community anytime I shared my writing, I don't know that they even. They know how much that encouraged me to keep going. Even. Even during, like, really difficult times. And even making the skits, when I. And I've talked about this a few times, when I started making them, I was really struggling. My mental health, that's something I've juggled with, like, for most of my life. And it was a particularly difficult time in my life. And when I started making the skits, it was sort of like an escape for a bit. Like, even just, like, 60 seconds of the day. Filming it, like, obviously about 60 seconds, but it ends up being 60 seconds at the end. Filming them was sort of the only time of the day where I could just kind of be somewhere else and not be within my own head all the time. And it was such a, like, beautiful escape for me. And even when I got better, it still remained like a safe place. And anytime I would have, like, a dip, it was always right there for me. And it always felt the same every single time. Like, every time I make a skit, it still feels exactly the same as when I first started filming them or when I sit down to write. It's still, like, the most, like, fulfilling, happy feeling that I always have at my fingertips. And that is Just absolutely, like, immeasurably important to me.
- [14:55]
Kinsey
And I have to say, some of my favorite skits of yours are when you're like, I'm the author. I can do what I want. So here are canon facts about my.
- [15:01]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Characters that you won't find in the book.
- [15:04]
Kinsey
I'm always just, like, eating it up.
- [15:06]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I need to do more of those because I have so many. But it actually started because I was on another podcast, and I was talking about this because I was saying to my friend, I have this headcanon that Evie. And she went, I'm gonna stop you right there. It is not a headcanon if you wrote it. It's just canon. And I was like, that is so embarrassing. Like, I have the power. And then I felt like, oh, my God, I shouldn't have this power. Like, who gave me permission to do this? Because now I can say and do whatever I want. And every time I go to make a video, I'm like, no one can stop me. This is true. If I say it's true, I am the God of this world. So that was a very freeing video, for sure.
- [15:53]
Hannah
Well, we're gonna have to ask you about some unnamed canon for accomplice in our spoiler section, so I'm sort of pinning that one. Speaking of. With release day coming up in a few short weeks, I imagine there are a lot of emotions in the mix. How are you feeling knowing your story is about to be in reader's hands?
- [16:17]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
It's actually the most, I think, calm I've been in releasing a story, and I think just with each book, I get more adept to, like, what to expect. And it's always different every time, obviously. But I feel like I've learned so much over the last couple of years, and I think when book one launched, I was a wreck. Like, emotional wreck. I was so nervous. It's. And it's normal for her to be nervous because it's such a vulnerable thing to put something that you put so much time and energy into out into the world for, like, everybody to read. Because then it's not just yours anymore, it's everybody's. And everybody can feel however they want about it and say whatever they want about it, and that's a good thing. But at the time, it felt like, oh, my God, I'm so terrified. And then I realized that it was. It was a good thing because being nervous means that you have something, like, really worthwhile to be nervous about. And it. It ended up being good. And then I was so determined with Book two to just fully lean into the nerves and just enjoy it. And I did. I weirdly started to enjoy, like, the nervous jitters, like, right before, and it turned into excitement, and I really loved the release. And then now for book three. I love book three so much that I'm just so happy it exists that everything else is a bonus. So, like, anyone else saying they loved it is just like the cherry on top of it for me, because it's my favorite book I think I've ever written out of the whole series. So I'm just excited for it to, like, exist out in the world. So it's good. All good feelings right now. I'm sure it's a dip in a flow. Like, tomorrow I might be, like, fetal on the floor. Who knows? But today I'm good. Today I'm happy.
- [17:53]
Kinsey
Well, if it's any consolation, all three of us think that this is our favorite of the series, too.
- [17:59]
Hannah
I was about to say that. So. Yes, exactly.
- [18:02]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, I'm so happy. That's amazing. You guys made my movie. Yeah, thanks.
- [18:07]
Carly
I was telling Kenzie the other day, I'm like, I just. I love it. And I don't feel like I have enough of these. But my favorite thing is when a series, it's just like, every book, I'm like, I couldn't love this more. And then the next book, I'm like.
- [18:19]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I love it more.
- [18:20]
Carly
And then every book is like, you love it more. And I just.
- [18:23]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God.
- [18:25]
Carly
It was such a fun experience because it was just like. It really was. So, yeah, we all, like, accomplice. We.
- [18:33]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [18:34]
Carly
She's absolutely swooning while I was reading it.
- [18:37]
Kinsey
Oh, we haven't even gotten to the letter yet.
- [18:39]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I know.
- [18:40]
Hannah
Just wait.
- [18:43]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
It's so nice. I'm very quick to cry, so I apologize. No worries.
- [18:49]
Hannah
It's more than welcome here.
- [18:50]
Carly
Yeah, we are.
- [18:52]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
You guys, like, made my whole week because I haven't talked to a lot of people who have read it yet. Like, you guys are one of the only people I've talked to that's, like, finished the book. Like, even my own family hasn't. Hasn't quite finished it yet. So it's. What? That's really interesting. Yeah. What? That's just, like, so nice to hear. Like, thanks.
- [19:10]
Carly
Yeah, I'm so glad. I'm so curious, what are your favorite tropes within this series? And if it's too spoilerly, we can ask this in the spoiler section.
- [19:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I don't think that. No, I think that. I mean, obviously grumpy. Sunshine's a huge part of the whole book series. I just love that dynamic in general. I think it's hysterical when a character's. And you would even see it with the villain and other characters. The villain and Blade are hilarious to me. I fought so hard for this scene in book two because it was a scene. I won't say anything too spoilery, but Blade kind of, like, bursts into the villain's chambers in the middle of the night and catches him and Evie in kind of a precarious looking position. And he's not like, oh, no. He's like, I'm gonna. What are you guys doing? Yeah. And he's like, I'm gonna throw a pencil at your face right now until we get out. And Evie's like, no, no. And I just like, that whole dynamic for me is just so much fun. Like the hijinks of a found family altogether. Or when one character is, like, clearly watching two characters skirt around their feelings and they call it out. Like, what's wrong with you? Guys just, like, communicate, like, talk to each other. Because it's literally me writing it, going, can you guys please just, like, stop making my life so difficult? Because it's just really annoying. Yeah, I love that. Obviously, like, the forced proximity thing is always my favorite thing. I put this specifically in book one, but I really like it when this sounds so strange. I like it when men apologize. Wow. Groundbreaking. As they should, it sounds. The bar is in hell. Like, it's. But it's like, in the earth's core. Like, it's so low.
- [20:50]
Hannah
But for some reason, it's just.
- [20:53]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I like the idea of, like, a really stern, stoic character. Like, the villain saying to himself, like, I don't apologize for anything. I never do it. Like, that's just not something I would ever do. And the person he's apologizing to is obviously Evie. In book one, that was, like, my favorite scene where she comes back to the office and he's like, sorry. I'm like, don't leave. I messed up. Got her.
- [21:21]
Hannah
That's how you know it's a fantasy book.
- [21:22]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. There's so many. Or. I like, I loved the scene in book two where Evie sniffs a flower that kind of gives her very loose lips and she starts just saying everything. And she already does say everything that comes into her brain. So this is just like that, but 100% worse. And so it was just like, everything that I want to do just evilly, like, cackling into my computer. Like, so fun.
- [21:50]
Kinsey
So slow burn. Isn't your favorite.
- [21:53]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. How did I forget? I always go to. I always blow.
- [21:57]
Carly
There's just too many.
- [21:57]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I go to microtropes for first. I don't know why, like, my. I go to, like, the little sub tropes, but I. Yeah, like, big picture tropes. Slow Burn, Grumpy Sunshine. I like enemies to lovers, too. I have that a couple a little bit with some of the characters, like, some of our side characters within the story. Just because I really like combative characters that are. I also just like banter. I love Woody banter. I love the back and forth of Woody banter. I love how, like, tired the villain is. Every time he has a conversation with Evie, he just comes away, like, defeated. Like, he's like, I just don't. I can't. I. Tapping out, like, I'm done. Yeah. But I love a slowbird. I think it's like, the more in pain I am, the happier I am. So, like, if they're not. Yeah, they're not got, like, the brush. I can read. I love spice, and I can read spice very comfortably and enjoy it so much, but I can read it with, like, a full, straight face if I read, like, their hands brushed or like, their. Like the scene in Bridgerton where their pinkies just go towards each other. I had to pause it. Like, I had to pause it to process what I had just seen. I can't express how deeply impacted I was by the Pride and Prejudice hand flex as a child. I watched that nine, and it just.
- [23:17]
Hannah
Really crammed in there, the tension and yearning.
- [23:20]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, it's my favorite thing. I think it just makes the payoff so much better and so much more enjoyable. So definitely slow burn for sure.
- [23:30]
Kinsey
Now, we did touch a little bit about your inspiration and creative process already, but specifically, what did that look like for you when developing the magic system?
- [23:40]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, so the magic system was really fun because it's kind of like. And my editor kind of described this for me as, well, where you kind of learn more with each book, the way that the magic kind of pans out through the world. So you're kind of like, learning along with the books, which kind of helps me leave a little bit of mystery to it. But I really, really liked the idea of magic sort of living within certain people and traumatic experiences are what brings about the magic. I love the idea of that because I don't think that anyone should have to go through something difficult to gain strength out of it. But I do think that so many people do find something strength or find Power in getting through something that's difficult. And I really liked the metaphor of sort of magic being the thing that makes you powerful coming out of a difficult thing or coming out of something that's really, really hard. And colors. I'm a big symbolism person. I love playing with the idea of colors. That's just a big part of. I can't say too much because that is. But there's a big part of the world is, like, the vibrant colors. And they talk a little bit about how the magical gods, like, came to Magical Continent and painted it with magic. But the colors and the magic are kind of, like, intertwined. And that was also, like, something symbolism. Like, I like when things, like, come back to something that feels, like, grounded and real. But also I really wanted everything in the world to feel nostalgic because that's what I thrive off of. So I wanted it to feel familiar but new. So everything that we loved from fairy tales as a. As a kid, but slightly varied and different in a. In a very new way.
- [25:23]
Hannah
I'm still thinking about that colors mention there.
- [25:28]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I know nothing. I swear. I'm Tom Holland. Like, I'm this close. Always, always on the edge of spoiling something.
- [25:37]
Hannah
I swear, you know, that makes you an interesting guest.
- [25:41]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So you're like, all right, great. Do you want to, like a drink or something? Yeah, yeah.
- [25:45]
Hannah
Or two or. Yeah, that's lovely. Okay, so this next one is a listener submitted question. It's a follow up to that. Do you use any mood boards?
- [25:55]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I did, like, a Pinterest board when I wrote book one, and I think I did one for book two. I think by the time I got to book three, I didn't necessarily need it, I think because the world has become so tangible to me and real and the characters feel so real that I know them so well. At this point, I will write a paragraph and will immediately delete it and say to myself, they would never say that. That's ridiculous. I have to delete that. So less mood boards with book three. More chaotic, random entries into my notes app. In my phone, there is so many, like, random lines that I will put, like, in the middle of the night, like, gasp, awake, like, oh, my God, I've got to write that down right now. But it looks truly like, I don't know, like a serial killer's because it's just absolute chaos. There's, like, random, like, blood written. And I think the FBI agent at my phone is, like, very concerned about whatever I'm doing.
- [26:54]
Hannah
Little do they know, so.
- [26:56]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
And I'm I'm really amazed by how much fan art has come out. I. I see, like, beautiful fan art all the time. And that also makes me feel inspired. So it's. It's wild that something I made inspired someone, like, visually to create some. A piece of art and that it's like a cycle. Like, that inspires me to, like, go back and revisit that scene that they're drawing or just thinking about the dynamics of the characters. So, yeah, it's really cool.
- [27:25]
Hannah
Love that. So, quick question. Are your Pinterest boards, like those specifically publicly available?
- [27:31]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I don't think they are. I could try to make them publicly available. My only concern is that they are just much like my notes app, absolute mess. And it's the way that my brain looks. So I think that your brain is like a reflection of your organizational skills. I have none. Somebody was like, what is your organization process? And I was like, mari, do not even. Like, my brain doesn't know that word. I have tried to be organized. It's not worked out. But I will work on the Pinterest part. I could even just do it for fun and just, you know, build a mood board of, like, how I feel now. That would be interesting.
- [28:11]
Hannah
Well, no pressure, but if you do, we will link those down in the show notes so that if people are listening, they can.
- [28:17]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That sounds like a fun task. I have, like, an eight hour drive in the car tomorrow so that I could do it in the car. Not driving. I won't be driving. And yes, yes, you're great.
- [28:29]
Kinsey
Your FBI agent right now is like, you're doing what?
- [28:32]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
No, never.
- [28:35]
Kinsey
For listeners that don't know, Assistant to the villain is getting an adaptation. And as executive producer, can you tell us anything about the TV show? And just so you know, we do have another question about this in the spoiler section.
- [28:49]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Okay. Yeah, there's. I really can't say anything. I think I just know that it's so hard because when I first started doing these videos and, like, writing the book even, I shared everything all the time. When I signed with my publisher and I started writing book two, it occurred to me that I can't share every single thing. And it's so hard not to. I want everyone to know. I want to tell you everything, but I have to be, like, professional, even though I'm not at all professional. I will go into a meeting and be like, I am sweating so much. I've had meetings with, like, very exciting people. And I think I've said out loud, like, from excitement. I'm Going to pass out. And they're like. And I'm joking. I'm not actually going to. I'm just so excited. They're like, oh, don't do that. And I'm not actually. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have said that. And. Wow. No, yeah, I can say that there's really, really amazing people working on it. I really, really love the team working on it. They really understand the story and they're. They're just very inclusive of me in the process. And it's just been really cool to, like, learn about that side of things. It's very new. That's really all I can say, though, as of now. But as soon as I can say more, you guys will know more. But that's all I can say for now. Okay.
- [30:12]
Hannah
What was it like getting that call?
- [30:14]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I have a really slow, like, processing speed of things. Like, it takes me so long. I will learn a fact, but it takes me. There's a point where it actually hits me, and I don't think it really, really hit me until I think my. I was talking to my grandmother about it, and she just said some, like, one sentence about it, and I went, oh, my God. Like, that's wild. Because it was just such a whirlwind. It was one of those things where I was trying to process it all, and I. My emotions were so tangled, and it was just. It was so exciting and unbelievable because I kept going back to the fact that this started from a video series I was filming in my college town home, and I was yelling into a bathroom like it was an office. And now I'm talking to, like, producers and signing contracts and. And talking about developing it into a television show. And it was a surreal call to get. I couldn't believe it. And I. I said to myself, I've girl bossed too close to the sun, I think, because how, like, how can this be happening? It's truly as unbelievable as it might sound. Other people. It's just as unbelievable to me, if not more.
- [31:28]
Carly
Oh, we're so excited for it. Is there anything else you would like to share for readers who are considering reading Accomplice to the Villain before we move on to our spoiler portion?
- [31:39]
Hannah
Well, and I should say the assistant and the villain series in general, I don't even know.
- [31:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think going into the series, I would take from it what you need to take from it. So if you need a laugh, you can definitely find that there. If you are looking to process a deeper emotion in a very safe place, that's also an option there for you if you want something familiar. It's all there. So take from the series what you need to take from it.
- [32:06]
Hannah
Love that response. You've been killing it.
- [32:10]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh my God.
- [32:11]
Hannah
FBI agent's like, okay, so she killed it. Giving them plenty of material to work with.
- [32:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Amazing.
- [32:19]
Hannah
All right, it is now time for the sweet spoiler filled portion of the interview. So if you haven't finished Assistant, Apprentice and accomplice to the villain, this is your formal spoiler warning. We recommend saving the episode and coming back to hear the spoiler section once you've turned the final page. We'll be right here waiting. If you are pausing here, you can find the links in the show notes to grab the series in print, ebook or audio. And as always, we highly encourage you to support your favorite indie bookstores if you can. Don't worry, we fully support one or three more impulse buys. We have also linked Hannah Nicole Mayer's socials down in the show notes as well. First question, we're going to start.
- [33:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So excited.
- [33:05]
Hannah
Who was your favorite character to spend time with while writing? Accomplice.
- [33:09]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh. Oh, that's. You know what? I really loved all of them. But it was very cool getting into Claire's head a little bit. I think that she's a very complicated person and I think because she's so complicated, she feels like a very safe person to explore because she's so flawed. Like she's such a flawed person. And it makes sense when you see their family background and where you know, her and her brothers come from and who like raised them. But she, she is such a dichotomy of a person because she, I think she is balancing the morals that she thought was true growing up between the love that she has for her brother and for like the love of her life. So she was definitely an interesting character to visit with, I think.
- [33:57]
Kinsey
Besides Tristan and Evie, which couple is your favorite?
- [34:01]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Ah, don't do this.
- [34:04]
Hannah
I knew you were going to say that.
- [34:06]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, you monster. No. It's all gone. It's revenge. It's so hard. I will say I, I do love all of them so much. It sounds like such a cop out answer. I'll go with the unexpected couple because Becky and Blade were always the plan. They, they always had like that will they, won't they feeling to me. And then Tatiana and Claire were, were just like always written in the stars together. And when it came to Gideon and Keely, that was a complete out of nowhere thing. Keely was not a character I had planned to Explore or deepen. She just sort of demanded it the minute I wrote. Like, she had been in the book before she appeared before. You know, she's the captain of the Malevolent Guard, so obviously she's an important player within the office. But when she met Gideon, immediately they started flirting. And I was so confused. I was like, guys, this was not. Stop it. Stop it. And he was just so enamored with her. And you could tell in the way that they were bickering like children on a schoolyard. Like, they. They just were picking at each other so much, and they had so much chemistry that I felt like a monster for trying to pull them apart. I was like, no, no. Because originally. And there was a taste of this, but it just didn't work at all. I tried. Gideon was supposed to be kind of like a love triangle aspect with Becky, and that was, like, originally, like, what I was going to go for. But they had no chemistry. Like, every time I put them together, I was getting the ick. I felt like I was like, oh, my God, this is gross. Like, you guys are not working out. But they still had, like, a little bit of a taste of it. And I still, like, had him be, like, a tiny bit of a jealousy point for Blade. But it just didn't feel like. Becky's such a person that knows herself so well. It just. It didn't fit for her to be confused in that way. And his chemistry with Keely was just out of this world. I had so much fun with them exploring, like, the dynamic between a malevolent guard and then a valiant knight. Like, that dynamic in and of itself was really a lot of fun to pick at.
- [36:15]
Kinsey
Well, thank you for not having a.
- [36:16]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Love triangle with Blade and Becky. It didn't work. And I, to be honest, don't love love triangles. I like to read them. Writing them is not usually my thing. And clearly my brain was like, no, this is not working. Like, absolutely not. This is gross. Yeah.
- [36:38]
Carly
Do you see Tristan as more of a villain or an antihero? And why do you think he resonates with reader so much?
- [36:45]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think that Tristan thinks he's a villain. I think he thinks he's the worst a person can be. And that's because he was told that his whole life, basically, that he was different. He always felt like a little bit othered to his two siblings. His mother made him feel very, like, closed off and cold, and he sort of, like, functioned that way. And his first taste of kind of, like, true acceptance of somebody that he admired, that was Older, like a. Like a parent figure was King Benedict. And going into, you know, spending that time with King Benedict when he was younger, when he was 19, and sort of finally feeling, like, accepted and, oh, well, I'm going to do all these good things for the kingdom and I'm going to be good. And that person turning on him and telling him he is bad and he is evil, and that's all he's ever going to be. That kind of broke him, I think. And he. He sort of just took comfort in it almost essentially, because he said to himself, if this is all I can exist as, I'm going to lean as far into it as I can because it's safe here. No one expects me to be good. I have no pressure on me to do good things, only bad things. But without realizing it, he does a lot of good things. He's. It's. His natural inclination is to take care of people and to make sure that everybody feels safe. And he's very uncomfortable with people pointing it out and people bringing it to his attention. He's like, I don't do that. I don't do that. And he's like, you're sweet. And he's like, why do you hate me? Why would you say that? That's rude. But I do think it is because he. He is so uncomfortable with that part of. Because he feels like it's unnatural when it's not. It is a part of who he is. I think he thinks he's a villain. I think everyone in the office might see him in a villainous manner, but he's also been, like, a safe haven for a lot of these people. So I think Anti Hero is not too far off. I think he's just somewhere in between. Like a morally gray, emotionally stunted gentleman.
- [38:45]
Carly
Yeah. I just love how he kind of, like, leaned so hard into, like, his villain aesthetic. But his goals are really much more aligned with, like, what's good for other people. But he doesn't want people to point it out. And he's so interesting. I just think he's so fun to read on page.
- [39:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Aw. Thank you. He's fun to write, too. He's a constant. He's such a. He's hilarious. His points of view are so fun for me. Like, truly, he's a riot.
- [39:12]
Kinsey
And I love that every kiss scene is usually from his point of view, too. I'm just like.
- [39:20]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I needed this. This man deserves it. I actually. I had that debate in book two. I had the scene written from both of their points of view, and I sent it to my editor because I was so stumped on which one to go with. I was like, I can't decide, so you decide. And she was like, why would you do this to me? Like, I like the movie. So I still have the scene from Evie's point of view, but it. It just ended up fitting better from his. So. Yeah. Would you. Maybe. Maybe someday I'll release it on my website. I'll put it up there.
- [39:54]
Carly
That would be amazing.
- [39:55]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, we'd love that. Yeah. Get a taste of what she's thinking.
- [39:59]
Carly
Speaking of Evie, she's such a complex, strong and empowered female main character, and she just straight up refuses to be sidelined. Do you have a favorite scene that captures these elements of her character?
- [40:13]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, I think the scene in book two in Apprentice to the Villain, when she kind of, like, ignores his order to, like, stay at the manor, and she just kind of, like, shows up and she's like, hey, I already found out everything before you even got here. It just felt like such a. Her asserting herself mode because she's lived so much of her life adhering to what everybody else needs and wants from her. She rarely took agency prior to working for the villain. And I think that was sort of one of her moments to feel like, I'm not going to listen to you because I think that you're wrong and I'm not going to listen to you just because you're telling me to. And I think the villain was weirdly proud of her for defying him. Like, he wasn't even really. He was more angry because of the danger she was in. But he had this weird pro. Like, not weird. He was, like, you know, proud that she kind of just ignored everything he told her to do. Yeah. And then in book three, there's the scene in Evie's office where it's from Kingsley's point of view, that scene, and they're arguing about if she gets to go, and she's like, are you blaming me for your lack of control? And I loved that line because I just felt like it was such a mic drop moment. And he was stumped by the statement because even the villain, like, to himself, said, oh, no. Yep, that is what I'm doing. Oh, no. And it was just. It's. She's. She's asserts herself so much more in book three. Like, in book two, you get more of a taste of her kind of, like, pushing. And then in book three, I feel like she just completely owns herself and owns, you know, what she. What she wants rather than what Everybody else wants her to do.
- [41:56]
Carly
I love it.
- [41:56]
Kinsey
When it comes to the TV adaptation, are you, like, pretty strict? Like, you guys can't change their character? These scenes have to be very strict.
- [42:04]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Are.
- [42:04]
Kinsey
There's very specific rules that you've given them?
- [42:07]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think there's the. The core of their. The most important thing to me with adapting it, and I can't say much, but I will say that the most important thing is just to keep their dynamic and their dynamic. The essence of their dynamic is, like, the most important thing to me because it is just such a huge part of who. Who they both are. And I think it's in really good hands of people that understand how to do that. So that's all I can say. That's good. Well, that's good to know.
- [42:34]
Kinsey
We just want to make sure that's protected.
- [42:36]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [42:37]
Kinsey
Evie reads a lot of steamy romances. If she existed in our modern world, which book or series would be her favorite?
- [42:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, you know what? I feel like she'd be a huge Ali Hazelwood fan. I think that she would love Ali Hazelwood. She'd be all over that. I think she probably would be, like, very into Bride, and she would have to explain to Tristan what nodding is, and it would be very. He'd be very confused, and it would be a great. That could be a bon. I'll rank that in. Yeah. I think she'd love a good fan. Like, she would be very into romantasy, I think. But I think from her perspective, reading books from our world would feel like fantasy to her because they're in a different world. And rather, romantasy is, like, what she's used to because that's her everyday life. So I think she would lean into contemporaries. I feel like she would love, like, historical romance bodice rippers. Like, I think that that would truly be, like, real up her alley. And I love a historical romance. They're so much fun. So I think she varied. Julia Quinn, Tessa Dare. Those would be some of her favorites. Yeah, I love that.
- [43:47]
Kinsey
We're huge Ali Hazelwood fans, too.
- [43:49]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, me too.
- [43:50]
Hannah
Me too.
- [43:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I love Ali Hazelwood. I've read, like. Oh, she's like a. I'll read anything you write author for me.
- [43:57]
Carly
I just finished her backlist, so I just read all of them.
- [44:01]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So amazing.
- [44:03]
Carly
I made it through.
- [44:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Which one was your favorite?
- [44:06]
Carly
I think she has. She writes in different categories, so it's, like, hard for me to pick a favorite. I loved Deep End.
- [44:13]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, Deep End is fun.
- [44:14]
Kinsey
Deep End is so good.
- [44:15]
Carly
And I love Bride I love Bride.
- [44:17]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Bride was fabulous.
- [44:19]
Carly
The audiobook is so good.
- [44:21]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, I gotta listen to the audiobook. Yeah. Bride was fabulous.
- [44:25]
Carly
Yeah.
- [44:26]
Kinsey
The Love Hypothesis. For me, I'm a woman in stem, and my husband and I were lab partners. We were both pre med, like, so, like, to me, it was very similar, and I did like water sports, and.
- [44:39]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So I was like, oh, my God.
- [44:40]
Kinsey
It's like us, but, like, not as cool.
- [44:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
No, that was amazing. You win. You won. That's incredible.
- [44:48]
Kinsey
I love the Love Hypothesis.
- [44:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Such a good one. I love it.
- [44:53]
Hannah
If I haven't read any of those yet, I feel, like, lucked out of these. I will be reading them, though.
- [44:59]
Carly
Yeah.
- [45:00]
Hannah
Carly has influenced us since.
- [45:01]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [45:02]
Hannah
Oh, yeah.
- [45:02]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Good, Carly. Get them. Get them all.
- [45:06]
Carly
If Evie had a book club, what would the name of her book club be?
- [45:10]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. Oh. The first thing that popped into my head was really inappropriate.
- [45:18]
Hannah
Say it.
- [45:20]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Did I say a curse word? Yes.
- [45:22]
Kinsey
This is rated R. It's good.
- [45:23]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I feel like it would be, like, the cunty cauldrons or something.
- [45:35]
Hannah
Nothing could have prepared me.
- [45:36]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Get that on a shirt. I don't know what that says about me. That. That was, like, the first, like, immediate thought. I was like, I'm just gonna go with my gut, and my gut said, cunty Coldworlds.
- [45:45]
Hannah
You need. We love a good alliteration, so. And you have to write that in.
- [45:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
She has to have a book club next. Obviously, at this point, I'll talk to the Kingdom of Threads, who does a lot of the merch. I'll be like, can you guys. I know you guys have been doing, like, really wholesome stuff, but would you mind throwing in a shirt that says Hunty?
- [46:04]
Carly
I would buy that shirt.
- [46:07]
Hannah
I mean, Cauldrons Book Club.
- [46:10]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes.
- [46:10]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [46:11]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, I love it. Meets every Tuesday in the massacre manner. Yes. Love it.
- [46:17]
Kinsey
I join in a heart.
- [46:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, same.
- [46:20]
Kinsey
Speaking of Massacre Manor, there's lots of cooking that happens there. Who would win in a Bake Off? Tristan or Lissa?
- [46:29]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, you know what? I feel like Tristan would not be the kind to let her win that, because he. He would be like, no, I'm going to. I trust her ability. I'm going to let her stand on her own two feet. And then he would be like. And I'll be very gracious when she loses. And then he would lose 100%. He would lose. He would lose, and he would be, like, real, like, quiet about it. I don't think he'd be, like, a sore loser. I think he'd just be, like, a really quiet loser. Yeah. He'd be like, silent in the corner. And anytime someone brought it up, he'd be like, well, I haven't done it in a while. I've been busy, like, doing other things.
- [47:11]
Kinsey
Sorry I'm paying for you guys to have a life.
- [47:15]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
My apologies for running the whole office. Come on, let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.
- [47:25]
Kinsey
Honestly, Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new family freedom offer.
- [47:33]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That's not the itinerary we're following.
- [47:35]
Kinsey
Well, I'm departing from ATT and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.
- [47:49]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Bon voyage.
- [47:50]
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- [48:17]
Hannah
We do have another fun question for you. It is Listeners admitted, if you were cursed and turned into an animal like Kingsley, which animal would you be?
- [48:26]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, I feel like a bird. Probably some sort of bird because I've always wanted to fly and I feel like birds just, you know, you can escape anything. Like, not everything can fly. There's so many animals that can, like, walk, but not every animal can fly. So I feel like that would be my go to.
- [48:46]
Hannah
Do you have a color in mind?
- [48:48]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, maybe the purple phoenix from the.
- [48:50]
Hannah
Book would be cool.
- [48:52]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, how fitting. Yeah, perfect. You guys were ready to go with the purple. So cute. Purple phoenix or. Yeah, I think, yeah, probably a purple phoenix. Or I really love blue jays. I could be a blue jay.
- [49:09]
Kinsey
So we're really big fans of alternating point of views and how you add more characters for each book you already touched on. You kind of gave your editor the chance to decide which one for that one scene specifically. But besides that instance, how do you decide which character point of view the reader will experience a scene from?
- [49:26]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think that that has come very naturally to me as the points of view have grown. It just sort of is like whoever I. Whoever's like, poking at my head like it's my Turn. Hi. It's my turn to speak. And I'm like, all right, relax. And if I put it off, the chapter ends up terrible. If I try to push it from some other character's point of view. I've had to rewrite entire chapters because it just didn't. It didn't work. And I do think that there's always a reason for that. Every time I have to delete like a big chunk of something, I try to remember that it's for the greater good and that it's. The characters are trying to send me a message. It's a really mean message, but it is important and I have to listen. Yeah, I think that it really, really depends on the story too. I was really, really set on including Claire's point of view in this book because she actually was originally a point of view in book two. It just ended up being too busy and it didn't. Quite all of her chapters weren't essential. They were more just kind of set up placements that could have been done in other chapters. And it felt more appropriate to have her point of view in this book because of. With their families and kind of learning about Claire and Tatiana's relationship more. So. Yeah, I think it comes pretty naturally. Sometimes it doesn't. And that's what editing is for.
- [50:44]
Hannah
Yeah. So it sounds like this, for the most part, seems to happen sort of in the moment as you're writing, but as of right now, do you plan to give us new POVs in book four?
- [50:58]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
You know what? I think if I, you know, I don't even. I don't think so. I think at this point I can't say definitively because I always think that that's the case and then I'm wrong. I think that we might get one more point of view in the next book. I won't say who, but there might be one more. There's just. There's so much happening in book four that it will really just depend on where we're at and who feels most appropriate head to be in in that scene.
- [51:30]
Hannah
So much happening in book four that there may be book five.
- [51:34]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Who knows at this right now, as of now, book four is the conclusion. But I, you know, I never say never. And these characters are really, like, really defiant and they don't listen to anything that I want to do because it was supposed to be three books. And then I got into mapping out book three and I panicked because there was no way I was going to finish in three books. The points I knew I needed to get to in the way I needed to develop the story. There was no way it was going to happen that way. And I have a very supportive publisher who was absolutely thrilled when I sent them a synopsis for a fourth one. So you never know, it could be about another character. It could be within the same world. There's so much I want to do within this world that I can't imagine ever really leaving. So we'll see what happens.
- [52:20]
Kinsey
Well, I like how you kind of left it open ended because you're like, the end. Until we meet again one more final time, hopefully. You never know at these nincompoops. So I'm like book five prequel, villain, origin story.
- [52:32]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So, yeah, you never know. I never want to fully close a door because it just. It will fling itself back open if it feels right. So leave it cracked.
- [52:42]
Hannah
Yeah, I already forgot the next question that I was gonna ask.
- [52:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh my gosh. I forget questions people ask mid answer. Like mid answer.
- [52:51]
Hannah
It just came right back to me. Okay, so I'd actually seen that you made a post about preemptively announcing that it was gonna be 4 books via threads because you thought you had already announced.
- [53:04]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So this is actually very funny because Stacey, when I was showing, I think it was announcing Book three's title and I wasn't revealing the COVID or anything. I was just announcing Book three's title. And it was back in October when Stacey was here for book scans and crowns. I spur of the moment, I was supposed to fly home after book scans and crowns, but her and Amber v. Nicole, who's like one of my other best best friends in our little group, were flying to la and it was sort of the night before she was flying to la and I was supposed to fly home and I was like next to her and she. I was like, what if I came to la? And she's like the hilarious what if you did? And I went, should I? And she was like, would you actually. And I went, I don't want to intrude. And she went, I want you to come more than anything. So I literally like canceled my other flight, booked a flight, or I. I hopped on her flight with her to Los Angeles and we ended up there together, which was hilarious. But she helped me announce it when we were in Los Angeles because I was supposed to say there was a fourth book. But the way we did it, I think was too subtle for some people, or just some people may not have seen that video because the whole bit was I was going to say the title of Book three and then Stacy was going to come up behind me and say, do you think they'll guess the title of book four? And I would be like, stacy. Oh, my God. And then she, like, had the. She was like, I'm gonna go stand in the corner. So just cut to me, like, in timeout in the corner. And I was like, brilliant. Great. And. And I. So I'm like, everyone knows there's gonna be a fourth one, surely. And on threads, people were like, hold on. A fourth one? What are you talking about? I felt less. I felt validated, though, because when I posted the video, like, I'm sorry if I forgot, you guys. There were all these people in the comments that was like, no, no. I remember you putting Stacey in timeout when you told us. I was like, stacy did not stand in the corner for no reason. She.
- [54:52]
Hannah
I love how I didn't get that. I. That video did not come up for me. The threads did not. But you're like, your video about the threads is what came up for me.
- [55:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. I think for a lot of people, that was the case. And I was like, dang. Sorry. My bad.
- [55:09]
Kinsey
Well, I did see the original video.
- [55:12]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, good, Good, good, good. Stacey stood in that corner for a reason.
- [55:18]
Hannah
Worth it.
- [55:19]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Worth it completely. Yeah.
- [55:21]
Kinsey
When it came to writing Renadon's prophecy, did you always know what each line meant?
- [55:27]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I knew, like, I didn't know line for line, but I knew all of the connecting pieces of it. Yeah. I knew from the beginning what the connectors were going to be, because I really wanted it to be. When you get all the, like, reveals in book three, and, like, at the end, when everything is revealed about who is who, I wanted you to be able to go back to book one and see that it was there the entire time. Like, written fairly plainly because there is so many lines in book one. I was even looking back, and I was like, oh, my God. It was not even a little subtle. Like, I was just like, here's the answer right here. And same thing in book two. So I did know the core of it. I didn't know, like, how it was gonna go line for line. So that ended up coming while I was writing book three. But I did know the points we were gonna hit.
- [56:10]
Kinsey
Are there multiple ways that it can still play out? Cause, like, we have Lyssa and Neura with the same magic, and there's two princes now.
- [56:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. There's a lot of things that could be twisted. I think you always have to be careful with the prophecy because it could mean really anything. But I Also, like, the point of Evie kind of emphasizing an accomplice, that you don't have to let people tell you or anything, tell you, magic or not, of what you're going to be. That is for you to decide. And I think that's going to be a very big theme in book four. So we'll see how it all plays out.
- [56:47]
Kinsey
Can't wait.
- [56:49]
Hannah
We have to talk about the end and all of the big reveals. What part were you most excited to write and how do you hope readers are left feeling?
- [56:58]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. I hope they feel, like, shocked and, like, very gobsmacked, but also a little bit like, oh, like, kind of, I should have seen that coming, or it was there the whole time sort of thing. It's so weird to talk about because it was such a secret for so long, but, you know, when I wrote the ending of book two, and I sort of put, like, Gideon sort of having that moment where he's like, wait a minute. Like, Evie kind of was the one that was unmasked, quote, unquote, within that little scene where the villain was supposed to be unmasked. And that was just supposed to be like, oh, a little nod. But then we go back into book three, and everything's, like, happening as is. But his magic being, like, attracted to her, that was always. And there's more happening in book four that I can't say. I almost spoiled something in book four. Oh, no.
- [57:49]
Kinsey
That would have been horrible.
- [57:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Wait. There's so much more to it than I even said in the. At the end of book three. But they. Evie being, like, the true villain of the tale, the ramifications of it were so, like, huge to me that I felt almost wrong typing it because it felt like such a secret. I couldn't even put it into my computer because it was just in my head. There was nowhere else it lived. It didn't live anywhere but within my brain. And so as soon as it was on the page, it was like, I've revealed something that shouldn't be told. It's a secret. But Tristan being King Benedict's son was actually originally revealed in book one in the first draft of book one. And then my editor was like, this is a pretty. And she didn't even say, cut it. She just went, this is a pretty big reveal for book one. Are you sure you want to keep it? And I went, no, I don't. And I deleted the whole thing. And I kept some of the hints to it. And there's even hints at the beginning of book two where King Benedict mentions Tristan's mom, and he is like, why are you talking about my mother? What do you mean? And in book one, he talks about how he always sort of felt like Arthur doted more on his siblings than him. And the reason, the whole time was that he, you know, that wasn't his biological son. And he sort of felt that from the time that he was really, really young. So there's lots of little things like that. So it was really, really gratifying to finally, like, reveal it and put it out into the world and just kind of throw them all into chaos, because everything that they thought was true is not. And sort of what that means is going to be a big part of the next book. And the ramifications of it all, it was very chaotic.
- [59:34]
Kinsey
And it was like, all at once. It's like, Evie's magic. He's the prince, Kingsley's free.
- [59:39]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Like, what is going on in the best way. Yes.
- [59:42]
Kinsey
I immediately had to go back, and I was like, okay, where are these hints? Like, I needed to double check for him being the prince.
- [59:49]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
But, yeah. Yeah. And Kingsley's reveal at the end was something. I'm so meticulous about endings. With beginnings, I don't have to work quite as hard to be happy with it. I'm usually just let it go. And I'm very happy with it. Usually pretty much right away. I'm lucky in that way. But with endings, I will revise it a million times before I'm satisfied with it. And that epilogue was one of those things that I kept rewriting. It was the same with book two. My editor's, like, patting my arm going, you don't have to. It's good. It's great. You don't have to touch it. And I'm like, no, no. I need five more minutes. I need to. I need five more minutes before it's just the way I want it. And that was a scene that just felt, like, so big that, you know. And there's something there at the end. It's one line I've even had. I had one person read it that didn't quite catch it and somebody else that did, but it was the. I'll tell you guys, just the way, like, he draws his tease is interesting.
- [60:44]
Kinsey
We know.
- [60:44]
Hannah
I was about to say we did.
- [60:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I have a question about that immediately.
- [60:48]
Kinsey
I have a question about that later.
- [60:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Okay, good, good, good.
- [60:52]
Hannah
And I want to say before we move on to the next question that I. I feel like consensus for us three is that we were gobsmacked. Like, I knew that that was. That was delivered, executed well.
- [61:05]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Thank you.
- [61:06]
Kinsey
I was the irresponsible one that dropped everything to read it immediately. But they kept up with their responsibilities, so I had to wait for them to finish.
- [61:15]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
And I was like, please.
- [61:17]
Kinsey
I was like, I just need to talk about this.
- [61:19]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh my gosh.
- [61:20]
Kinsey
The first line of chapter one too. I freaked out and we were on FaceTime and it was when Kingsley had the dream that Tristan got beheaded. And I was like, oh my God. And Carly thought that I saw a spider and I was freaking out. And so I made her at least read that first chapter so I could talk about that. But I've been sitting with the ending and I've just been like, how am I gonna wait more than a year for this next.
- [61:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'm so glad. It was good.
- [61:47]
Kinsey
It was good.
- [61:48]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
We liked it. I knew that first line was cruel too. Like, I knew it when I wrote it. I was and knew it before I even, you know, did the synopsis for book three. Because I'm. I'm truly very cynical. Evil to my court. Like, I think I'm. You're like, we got it. Like, you don't need to say it. Yeah. I was like, haha. This is fun. Yeah.
- [62:10]
Kinsey
I mean, like, the realistic side of me knew, like, there's no way she got Tristan on page. But I was like, what if this is the future?
- [62:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. What if it's a problem? Yeah.
- [62:22]
Kinsey
It's not.
- [62:23]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Hopefully.
- [62:24]
Hannah
I also don't want to undersell how much Kinsey has wanted to talk about this book because not only did they have hour long facetimes, they also did a full episode of initial thoughts and reactions to Accomplice together.
- [62:36]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I have to go listen to it.
- [62:40]
Hannah
Two days before or after this episode releases.
- [62:43]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yay. I want to have to wait for.
- [62:44]
Hannah
Everybody else to be able to read it, right?
- [62:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Of course. I can't wait to listen to it. I'm so excited.
- [62:51]
Carly
Please do. How I had described the ending, I was like. I felt like. It just felt like a rollercoaster ride. It just was so much fun and chaotic and I was like, what's happening? But I was enjoying every second of it.
- [63:04]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I love that perfect descriptor. Amazing.
- [63:09]
Carly
We got to explore some new realms and cities in Accomplice. Can we expect another map extension in book four?
- [63:17]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, definitely. Because we have to jump around more in book four. I actually think book four will have. I love being in the office. So actually, when I was writing book two, the reason I really needed to do multiple POVs was because Evie and the villain had so much cause to leave the office. And that was exciting because I liked the branching out and learning more of the kingdom and going to different places. But the office is such an essential part of the story, so it felt very natural to go, okay, well, what's everybody else doing while they're gone? What kind of chaos is the rest of the office getting into? And Becky's, like, one of my favorite characters ever. I just think she's so cool, and I would want to be friends with her so bad, but she would definitely not like me. But that's okay. I don't like me some days either. I'd be like, you're so valid for that. You can't do anything wrong. I love you. Yeah, she's perfect in my head. But I think that, yeah, we'll definitely jump around a bit more in book four. I can't say the places we're going to go, but I will anticipate more map locations in book four. That's exciting. Yes.
- [64:23]
Carly
Yeah. I'm so excited for that because I feel like every book, the world expanded, and it was so exciting to get to explore more of the world. And it just felt so natural, but also exciting where you're like, oh, I get to see this new place. And it was just. It's so fun to see the new places you create, because I just feel like. I don't know, like, you can, like, experience the creativity in a way that's just really unique, and I love it so much.
- [64:47]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Thanks. It's exciting for me, too, writing it, because I don't always know what that place is going to be like until I'm, like, sitting down and writing it. So it is. It's a lot of fun.
- [64:56]
Carly
We have a few theory level and clarification questions. Feel free to say pass if they fly a little too close to the book for sun.
- [65:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Okay. Okay.
- [65:05]
Kinsey
Starting off is the title for book 4. Easter Egg Din Accomplice.
- [65:09]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Pass. That's a gift. Yeah.
- [65:16]
Kinsey
Does it have anything to do with Evie being called villainous or villainess smash.
- [65:23]
Hannah
She's like, oh, I actually like that a lot. Okay. Okay.
- [65:27]
Carly
I mean, this is 100% going to be a pass. But are the words adversary or ally a possibility?
- [65:34]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'm going to pass. Not because those are the answers, but because I don't want to stop getting the A guesses because those valid A guesses. But I'm getting, like, actuary to the villain and acetaminophen to the villain, and I'm like, I'm Perfect.
- [65:52]
Hannah
I guess we should ask, do you have book four title cemented or are you, like, getting ideas from that?
- [65:58]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I've known Book four's title before I wrote Book three. Book four's title, actually. I think I knew Book four's title when I was writing Book two. Actually, I. I've known it for a really long time. The fact that I've not said it out loud yet is crazy because I. I didn't even trust myself to keep the secret this long. So I'll pass on to the trivia.
- [66:20]
Hannah
I mean, you say it and we'll bleep you out.
- [66:24]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Don't do it. Good talking. Because I do want to.
- [66:27]
Kinsey
But add it to the trivia section really fast.
- [66:32]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I can't. I can. I can.
- [66:34]
Hannah
Will Tristan's mom and King Benedict get the karma they deserve?
- [66:40]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'll say that I do believe in karma. I do believe that you get what you put out into the world. And I think that a big theme in book four is sort of overcoming where you've come from or who you've come from and living in a way not because of what they've done, but despite it. And that's all I'll say.
- [67:02]
Kinsey
Does Tristan have his own magic?
- [67:08]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Your facial expression. I'm so bad at this. I'm no poker face.
- [67:15]
Hannah
That was fantastic.
- [67:18]
Carly
This is 100% going to be a pass. But if he does end up having his own magic, is there any chance it would be funny or embarrassing for.
- [67:25]
Hannah
Him and maybe say it's an alternate reality way?
- [67:29]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I feel like it would be really funny if he had, like, magic that I don't know what would be like a really silly power.
- [67:35]
Kinsey
Tickling.
- [67:35]
Hannah
He can shrink things.
- [67:37]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, tickling.
- [67:38]
Kinsey
He goes from death magic to I can tickle you.
- [67:41]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I can tickle you right here. I can, I can. Magic is literally just like holding his finger, like, really close to someone's head and be like, I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you. No, that's actually really funny because this is a random side bit. But my brother has this hilarious thing that he always says where he hates. Hates being tickled so much. Like, he hates it so much that he's like, I would rather be tortured than tickled. And he's like, I think you could torture people by tickling them. And I was like, that could be the villain's new method of torture.
- [68:15]
Hannah
All right. Copyright it.
- [68:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, just the feather. Just the fact coming out, people with a feather, like, haha, we did have.
- [68:23]
Carly
Like an indentation depth. I feel like Conversation on this in our initial reactions episode, Kinsey and I.
- [68:28]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So, Rebecca, I can't wait to hear it. Can't wait.
- [68:34]
Kinsey
Back to the tease that we mentioned earlier. So it's implied that the traitor of Massacre Manor crosses their T's a certain way in their notes. Marv is exposed at the end, but Claire notices Kingsley's handwriting also looks suspiciously like the traitors. Most of the office staff have seen Kingsley's signs at one point or another, and in theory could easily replicate his handwriting. Is Kingsley Bing set up?
- [69:02]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
All I'll say is that the accomplice to the villain title has a double meaning.
- [69:10]
Kinsey
Ooh, like accomplice to the king? Kind of. Cause he's the true villain.
- [69:18]
Hannah
Oh, no. Or multiple characters. And not just Evie was the accomplice.
- [69:24]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Who knows? It just has a double meaning.
- [69:28]
Hannah
I feel like that just broke my brain.
- [69:30]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I know.
- [69:30]
Kinsey
So I'm not sleeping tonight.
- [69:33]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'm sorry. I want to tell you everything. This is really hard. I'm like, pass. But I'm like, but I want to tell you. I know.
- [69:40]
Carly
Kenzie's going to start a reread and we're going to get a FaceTime call that's going to, like, Spiral for three hours for sure.
- [69:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Give me a message and I'll one break.
- [69:50]
Kinsey
I'll just, like, keep spamming you.
- [69:52]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I will break. I'll be like, you know what? I'll tell you.
- [69:54]
Kinsey
Yeah, well, we are going to be going. Yeah, we're going to be attending book scouts and crowns. So maybe I just have to, like, go to you and be like, hey.
- [70:01]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Hannah, oh, my God. Find me after, like, one margarita and I will tell you everything right now.
- [70:06]
Kinsey
Margaritas on me.
- [70:07]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'm pretty sure I did that to, like, a random reader. They were like, I want. I want to know this. And I went, I'll tell you everything right now. Let me. And they're like, okay. And I'm like, oh, great. So I can't do that again, but. Or can I?
- [70:23]
Hannah
We're gonna find her at the ball and be like, hey, have you had a drink yet? Let's grab one.
- [70:29]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That night was like, so. It was just so chaotic. Cause it was like our first night there and I was like, so sleep deprived. It might have been Stacey I was talking to. It very well, probably was Stacy.
- [70:41]
Kinsey
As if she's not already, like one of the first people to read the book.
- [70:44]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I know, I know. I reading it now and texting me, like, every five seconds. Like, you are the worst.
- [70:52]
Kinsey
She's one to talk with the Way she.
- [70:54]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I've literally never done anything wrong in my life. How dare you?
- [71:03]
Hannah
All right, next question. Is there a coronation scene in our future?
- [71:12]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
She had to think about that. No, I know the answer. I just don't know if I should. Should say in a manner of speaking. Yes, that will be my.
- [71:24]
Hannah
In a manner.
- [71:25]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
In a manner of speaking.
- [71:26]
Hannah
In a manner of speaking.
- [71:27]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
In a Muslim manner of speaking. That wasn't an accident. Okay. It was pretend. I'm clever.
- [71:37]
Hannah
We'll take it. What about a wedding scene?
- [71:40]
Carly
Oh, yes.
- [71:43]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
But I won't say who.
- [71:46]
Hannah
What about a wedding coronation scene?
- [71:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I don't think that one I think I can definitively say no to. But you never know. I never say no fully to anything. But as of now, that's not in the books. But who knows?
- [72:02]
Hannah
I mean, I'm satisfied. I love an on page wedding.
- [72:06]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I do too.
- [72:07]
Hannah
This is a running theme for me with the girls. Like, I'm very passionate about an on stage.
- [72:13]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I understand, I understand. It's very gratifying to see characters you've been rooting for finally like come together. Yeah.
- [72:21]
Kinsey
She's got beef with a few authors over that.
- [72:23]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, I understand. I understand. I get beef with myself for leaving stuff out sometimes. I'm like, why did you do that? Like, that was really mean. And I'm like, I don't know. I was feeling like real, like spicy that day.
- [72:34]
Hannah
Like, you could always do bonus chapters, you know.
- [72:38]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That's so true. And there's so many chapters that we end up up cutting that I keep in like a little document in case they ever. In case there's like a special edition that needs like for the hardcover special edition. The bonus chapter is the. They're first reading from the villain's point of view. And I had been waiting to write that for like something very special. Like I had that scene in mind for so long, like when I was writing book one even. And that was just like so fun. It was a blast. I couldn't wait. And now I'm glad because it's coming out in September. And I think the plan is as soon as the hardback editions sell out, I should be able to put the bonus chapter on my website so everybody can read it.
- [73:18]
Kinsey
I know that when you teased it, everyone was like trying to pause the screen like on the page.
- [73:23]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I knew fully that people were going to do that. So I made sure it was a page that that was okay for everybody to read. It had like the. One of my favorite lines which was like, he was like begging for like a storm or like a tornado or something to, like, wipe him out. And I was like, oh, little do you know.
- [73:39]
Kinsey
I'm people. I paused the screen.
- [73:41]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, I love that. I love that.
- [73:43]
Hannah
So a file with all the deleted chapters. How many margaritas would that take?
- [73:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Honestly, not many. I think, like, not like, maybe one sip. I'd be like, all right, get my laptop. I'll send it all now.
- [73:58]
Hannah
Will you have your laptop at Bookscouts and Crafts?
- [74:00]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That's true. You probably will. I travel with it. Usually.
- [74:05]
Carly
Sounded dangerous.
- [74:07]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'm plotting. Yeah, I know. I'm like, so bad. I'm like, I'll tell you everything. Why not? Like, you seem trustworthy. I'll tell you.
- [74:15]
Carly
This is not being recorded, right?
- [74:17]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Not on the record or anything.
- [74:19]
Kinsey
Well, we wouldn't share it with others.
- [74:21]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I appreciate that. Yeah.
- [74:23]
Hannah
Kenzie's like, if there's any chance you're serious, you have to know.
- [74:27]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
We would not.
- [74:28]
Kinsey
I've been suffering in silence with your ending, so since May, so.
- [74:32]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, no. All right, all right. Find me a book scout in the crowns. We'll chat. We'll talk. Okay, cool.
- [74:39]
Kinsey
I'm trustworthy.
- [74:40]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. I believe it.
- [74:41]
Hannah
She's also internally screaming right now.
- [74:43]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
You make very trustworthy. I believe you. I believe you.
- [74:46]
Kinsey
Thank you.
- [74:48]
Carly
Was Kingsley's curse broken because he may or may not have bitten his true love, spinning the kiss the frog prince to break the curse? Fairy tale on a 10.
- [74:58]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'll say that Kingsley's curse is very, very complicated. And we kind of dive more into that in that book. And I will say Winnie, obviously is a part of it because she is the enchantress's daughter. And that magic kind of has like a genetic footprint almost. They don't really talk about genetics within the book, but it's passed down through families. And the magic has, like, a similar fingerprint to somebody that you are. Are obviously blood related, too. So that is definitely a part of it. And that's literally all I can say. Yeah. I will say that it's complicated and that her being an enchantress is going to play into his curse.
- [75:39]
Kinsey
Is it not fully broken yet?
- [75:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
It is to be determined. Who knows? Like, we just really saw him as a man. We don't know what's going to happen.
- [75:49]
Kinsey
A naked man.
- [75:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
A naked man. Well, I debated putting clothes on him and I was like, that makes no sense. Like, why would he have clothes on? He's been a frog for 10 years. It's unrealistic. Yeah.
- [76:01]
Hannah
Well, also, according to Tristan, he's quite Attractive. So we appreciated the scene.
- [76:05]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a hunk. He's full hunk. Yeah.
- [76:10]
Hannah
All right. You mentioned off page canon in the spoiler free section, so this is the follow up. Is there any accomplishment off page canon tidbits that you would like to share with us?
- [76:22]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Let me think. I've got to ruminate on it for a second.
- [76:27]
Hannah
It also doesn't have to be accomplice specific. If you would like to share some of the canon tidbits that you've already publicly shared, because our listeners may or may not have already heard those, I'll.
- [76:35]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Say that this actually is a bonus scene in the Barnes and Noble exclusive edition. Because I thought this was such a funny thing, because I didn't even plan this. It just popped up while I was writing that Lyssa has, like, a list of villainy points that Tristan gave her. Like, rules of villainy. And so there is a bonus chapter. I won't say, like, everything in the chapter, but part of the chapter is you kind of discover, because Evie notes that there's always, like, flowers on her desk and then the candies that she likes. And it's, like, from Edwin and Marv, but it's not from Edwin and Marv. It's the villains putting them on her desk every single morning. And it's his way of still being connected to her, even though they can't be around each other. And he doesn't need the credit for it. He just wants to know that she has those things and that they are there for her. And Lyssa catches him clipping the roses at night, and that is sort of when they discuss the rules of villainy.
- [77:29]
Carly
Oh, yeah.
- [77:30]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
It's a very sweet scene. I really love their relationship and their dynamic because I think Lyssa brings out, like, Evie brings out a softness in him, but she also, like, riles him to. And I think Lissa just really, like, turns him into putty. Like, really makes him, like, just a soft mushball. Like, I truly think he would do anything for her, anything to protect Lyssa. I think most of the office feels that way about her. And it's one of my favorite points in the book because Evie even notes that you don't need a village. You just need an office of eccentric people, and that's plenty to help raise a child.
- [78:07]
Kinsey
Tea time with Lord Tristan is so cute.
- [78:09]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [78:10]
Hannah
I was about to say that's one of my. My favorite scenes in the whole book for the whole series.
- [78:14]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I love it so much. It was so planned and the position it was in. I almost got moved. And I, like, pushed for it to be where it was, because the discussion was that it was kind of abrupt to go from the intensity and the dramatics all the way to a tea party scene. But in my head, I was like, that's very on par for this series, though. It feels like that is actually the perfect time for them to be having a tea party. And I was so happy with how it turned out. I felt like that was exactly the spot it was meant to be in. But the tea parties were essential. I was like, there's no way these are not going to be in every book.
- [78:50]
Carly
And finally, what, if anything, can you share with us about the next book?
- [78:54]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I always say the next book's going to have more of everything, so more romance, more world building, more secrets. I would even say more. More angst in certain points. But it's balanced, I think, pretty well with the silliness of the book. Like, it's. It's never. My favorite thing about these books is, even when things are really, really hard, there's still levity and there's still, like, a lightness to it, because that's just how the characters are, and that's how I write, and that's honestly how I live my life. I try to. I try to, like, make things funny and not take anything too seriously and let the sad moments be sad, but be able to move on and process them through humor. And laughing at yourself, I think is so important. So that's a big part of the fourth book. And, yeah, just discovering more of the world. When you guys said that this one was your favorite as well, it hit. Because every book, I told myself, I want each book to be better than the last one. I want each book to feel like the best book in the series. So that was very nice. Aw. That's my goal. So that was nice.
- [79:55]
Carly
Well, mission accomplished. I think it's so enjoyable to. The more I get to know the characters, the more I like them, and I just. It's just even more fun.
- [80:04]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Thank you.
- [80:07]
Hannah
Have you started writing bookforia?
- [80:09]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Very, like, lightly. I've just kind of started touching on the prologue. And the prologue is fun because it's a touch back to the five months we didn't really see of Evie working there because we, after the first meeting, jump ahead five months. So I usually touch back to a scene that's going to loop back around into the book at some point. So I just need to make sure it's, like, the perfect connector because I like to set that up early, so that's the only thing I'm currently working on. But I'm so excited because I have this very big scene planned for the first act of book four that I can't wait to get into.
- [80:46]
Hannah
Yeah, love that. Can't wait for you to get into it.
- [80:52]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.
- [80:56]
Kinsey
Honestly, Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.
- [81:04]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That's not the itinerary we're following.
- [81:06]
Kinsey
Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones on the house.
- [81:20]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Bon voyage.
- [81:21]
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- [81:47]
Hannah
All right, it is now time for our Swifty Mania segment.
- [81:52]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I can't wait.
- [81:53]
Hannah
I can't either. And Stacy kind of set you up because I found out Stacy was. I knew you were a Swifty.
- [81:59]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, yeah.
- [81:59]
Hannah
And I found out Stacy was a Swifty. And of course we interviewed her first and that was the first time we did the Swifty Mania. And she was like, she said that she couldn't wait for you to do it because your knowledge even surpassed hers. And I was like, oh, this is.
- [82:10]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Gonna be so cool because I'm obsessive. She knows this because my love language is making playlists for people of just her songs that make me think of them. And I get like real deep and meticulous with it. And I always put their name with Taylor's version and then a funny picture of them. And I get like, I made one for my sister in law. And she cried because she was like, you put so many like salons in there. And I was like, well, you tell me stuff. And then I'm like, oh, the bolter would be perfect. And she's like, that hurt. Oh my. I was like, I put happy ones in there too. I put bejeweled. Bejeweled's fun. Like, it's really fun. I was like, this is my love language. And I'll put, like, for. I do this all the time. Like, this is truly how I show affection.
- [82:52]
Hannah
Oh, that's the sweetest thing I've ever heard. And I also love that because I would also overthink this Taylor Swift songs that were given to me. So, like, I also understand her point of view.
- [83:02]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She'd be like, oh, my God. Like, you saw. I was like, it's not my fault that Taylor is just, like, looking right into your soul. Like, it's. I'm just presenting it. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
- [83:14]
Hannah
Well, I have a lot of Taylor Swift questions for you. First, what is your favorite Taylor Swift album and song?
- [83:23]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
My favorite album is Speak Now. I think it. It. It was one that I listened to, like, no skips on repeat when I was younger. And it was one I daydreamed to a lot, like, to writing books. And it's very special because book one, I listened to Speak now on a loop. And I can connect every song in Speak now to a scene in book one, even the bonus tracks from the Taylor's version. So I. Yeah, I. Speak now is very. I'm very fond of Speak now, but I think my favorite song, I go back and forth, but I think the one that I always listen to and just feel like, very connected to is the Archer. I love that song. I just feel like it's such a. It's such a song for girlies with anxiety. I.
- [84:04]
Hannah
Very much so.
- [84:05]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Especially social anxiety. I listen to it and I'm like, oh, my God, they all see right through me. And she knows. Why would she say that? But it's got. I remember when it came out, and it was just a song that I felt really, really connected to. So that one's probably my favorite. It's hard to pick a favorite, but that's one I come back to quite a lot.
- [84:24]
Hannah
I love that. Also, the fact that Stacey also said Speak now was her favorite album. I'm like, we didn't know this about each other either.
- [84:31]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Like, we were talking about it the one day, and I was like, speak now is my favorite. And she went, it's my favorite too. And I went, oh, my God, that's why we're best friends. And she's like, it has nothing to do with any of the other stuff, but it's just that we both like Speak Now Now.
- [84:43]
Hannah
Either that or lover versus rep, where you're just like a rep bestie and a lover. Bestie. Yes.
- [84:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I love the dichotomy of the two. Or they say that too. Like somebody said book couples are either one of them's Archer, one of them's Mirrorball. And I was like, that fits because the villain's Archer and Mirrorball is Evie.
- [85:03]
Hannah
We're coming back to that. Oh, sorry. No, I was like, oh, man.
- [85:07]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I jumped ahead.
- [85:08]
Hannah
Okay, so you actually set me up perfectly here because my next question is, if you gave Evie and Tristan a Taylor Swift song together, what would it be?
- [85:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I know this answer. I've known it since I. Before I started writing book one, even when I was making the videos. It's enchanted.
- [85:25]
Hannah
Of course it is.
- [85:26]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
It's their first meeting. I want that track playing in the background. Like, that is my dream. I just feel like that is truly the epitome of them. Like, that is their song.
- [85:36]
Hannah
Every time I am asking a TV show, I'll have like that.
- [85:39]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'll be like, hey, I know we're working on other stuff, but this is highest priority. Call Taylor. Ask her if we can. What if we just call Taylor up?
- [85:48]
Kinsey
Like, yes, give me her number.
- [85:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'll talk.
- [85:52]
Hannah
If that ever happens for you.
- [85:54]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That would be insane. I. I truly. I always go. I'm like, oh. I'm actually like three people away from Taylor Swift because my brother's. One of my brother's, like, best friends is friends with Kylie Kelce, and he went to their wedding, so I'm like, okay, his friend. And then Kylie, which in and of itself, fabulous. Love Kylie. And then Taylor, I'm like, oh, my God. It's like I'm only threw away.
- [86:19]
Hannah
I would never shut up about that. I'm so close.
- [86:22]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Like, I'm like, I'm right there. Like, honestly. Right. And I'm from right outside of Philadelphia, so Kylie and Jason are like the king and queen of Philadelphia. Like, we idolize them. They are. They are our king and queen.
- [86:35]
Hannah
Royalty, rightfully earned.
- [86:37]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes, yes, yes. They're amazing. We love them.
- [86:40]
Hannah
Okay, so this is going to be like a multi question because I'd like for you, if you have one, to tell us what song would apply to each of the three books so far separately.
- [86:53]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes. Okay, so I think book one would be Long Live probably. I think book two. Book two, I said was who's Afraid of Little Old Me? But I think it could also be Electric Touch randomly. But that's more their relationship, I think. But I think as a whole, it would be who's Afraid of Little Old Me? And then I think book three, I would Say book three, it gives me new romantics vibes. I don't know why. I listen to that song a lot when I'm thinking about book three. I don't know what it is about that song specifically. It's just like, the vibes of.
- [87:30]
Hannah
It feels like the chosen family, too.
- [87:32]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Yeah, it feels very. Like, this is. We're all together and, you know, I. And that's. And, yeah, I think that's where. Yeah. Okay.
- [87:44]
Hannah
Okay. You've done so. You've been so quick with these. I'm impressed. I can tell you.
- [87:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think about this a lot. Like, I do. It's, like, always on my mind.
- [87:54]
Hannah
I would, too, if I wrote a book. It would be, like, completely Taylor Swift coded. So I love that for you.
- [87:59]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [88:00]
Hannah
Okay. So we have done our research, and you have previously posted about what songs you would apply to each character, but I want to give our listeners who may not have seen this a chance to hear it from you.
- [88:11]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [88:12]
Hannah
So we're going to go through each of the characters and ask you what their Taylor Swift songs are in general and then follow up to. All right, going into book four, what is the Taylor Swift song? So maybe we can get some little Easter eggs in there.
- [88:27]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think I went by album when I did this on Threads, so I'll just go overall, like, out of all the albums.
- [88:33]
Hannah
Perfect. No, that's perfect.
- [88:35]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Because I always said Becky was either nothing new or she was. I think my tears ricochet. Ricochet.
- [88:44]
Carly
Yeah.
- [88:44]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I feel like between those two, especially the line where she is, I can go anywhere I want, anywhere I want. Just not home. Just not home. It's just, like, such a Becky line and just the nothing new. I think it's very on theme with her because she spent so much of her life, like, trying to please her mother and walk, like a very narrow line and be the perfect daughter and be the perfect heir. And it just always blew back on her. It just never was enough. And she discovered that it wasn't enough as she got older and sort of discovered a found family that kind of allows her to just exist as she is. And I think for Blade, Blade is just so. He's so vibes, but he's so much deeper than I think a lot of people give him credit for, because he. He. He kind of grew up very similarly to Becky, like, being stifled and feeling like the things he was interested in were very unimportant, and people didn't really make a lot of sense to him because he just thinks in a very, like, simplistic. Straightforward way. And lots of the time people do not communicate like that or do not talk like that. That. And he's very light hearted. So I think that Blade would probably be. This one's tough. I think this is so. I don't know why. The first thing that popped into my head was fearless. Don't know why. No clue why. I think he. He also gives, like, 1989, like, as a whole, I feel like that whole album is very blade. So I think, like, Shake it off probably would be a very Blade song. Yeah, I think that whole album would really be blade. Yeah. I think that the. For him and then for Tristan is the archer. I would say that's. That's probably his song. Tatiana might be fearless or bejeweled. I would give her bejeweled. She's just so fabulous. And she just knows, like, she's very confident in who she is as a person. She's very sure of herself and she's. She's very loyal and uncompromising when it comes to the people she loves. Like, she's not afraid to step out of line. Fine. If it means it's helping someone or doing the right thing. Even if it's not what everyone else is saying is the right thing. And wait, who do we have left? I did Kingsley. Oh, Kingsley. Oh, my God. Kingsley would be. Oh, wait, duh. I did this from folklore. This is totally his song. And I'm blanking on the title of the song for some reason. It's not my tears ricochet. It's this is me trying. This is me trying. It's Kingsley 100%. Especially the line where he says, I was so ahead of the curve, the curve became a sphere, fell behind all my classmates, and I ended up here. That's very, very, very him. Especially in book four. Like, very big part of his arc and his story. And then. Did I do Evie yet? No. Oh, Yvie would probably be who's afraid of little old me? I think if I gave her one song, she's very mirrorable. But I do think where she's at now is very who's afraid of little old me? I was t gentle till the circus life made me mean. It's just a very good descriptor of how she started and where she's at now. Yeah.
- [91:54]
Hannah
Do you think she'll have a little bit of vigilante shit mixed in there?
- [91:59]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, 100%. I think that she's learning to be very confident in who she is. And she kind of got thrown through a loop at the End of accomplice. So she's going to have to relearn who she is in book four. But she has the tools now to do that. I think that she didn't have that she wouldn't have had. Should she have found this out in book one, she probably would not have been able to handle it the way she's going to handle it in book four, because she didn't have the tools yet to be able to do it.
- [92:28]
Hannah
What would you say Tristan's is going into book four?
- [92:30]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Specifically going into book four, Tristan's is. That's a tough one. One, because I feel the one I'm thinking of would be too much of a sp. Oh. I'm thinking, like. The thing that I will say about book four is that we've seen a lot of resistance from Tristan for the past three books. Like, a lot of it has been Evie kind of trying to push him out. And that role sort of gets a little bit reversed in the next book because we haven't really seen him in full pursuit suit of her. And that is what a lot of.
- [93:07]
Hannah
Book four is going to yearning for.
- [93:10]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
He's kind of at the point where he's like, you know what? If you don't want to be the sure one, it will be me. So I think maybe Mastermind would probably love it.
- [93:21]
Hannah
I love it.
- [93:22]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Mastermind, I think, would be a good descriptor for it. Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's any others I should add here.
- [93:31]
Hannah
Well, we do have some, like, side characters that I'd love to know. Even if it's the first song that comes to mind for them. Maybe not, like, super well thought out, but, well. Claire.
- [93:41]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, Claire. Oh, my God. Claire makes me cry sometimes when I think about it too long, she's just got, like, a really hard time. Because I think that Tatiana really resents her sometimes, and rightfully so. She has every right to feel that way. But she's. I can't help but empathize with her because I'm writing her and I'm in her head a lot. And I know how difficult it is to. To break the pattern of the way that you've been your entire life and the way that you've thought your entire life. And she's trying to redo so much in her mind. God, I would almost say that she. She might even be. My tears ricochet like that might even be more of a Claire song. Just because she's sort of distancing herself from everything she knew and building something completely new. Yeah, I think that it's definitely more of a melancholy feel for Claire as of now.
- [94:32]
Hannah
I don't know why, but I was telling the girls last night as we were talking about this, that Ivy, she gives me Ivy vibes. Yeah, but without the infidelity. But maybe in a different way of like this. She's internal conflict, but for some reason.
- [94:45]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes.
- [94:46]
Hannah
Okay. Well, that validation's great.
- [94:47]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That made me think, too, like, her and Tatiana could also, like, collectively be cardigan, like their relationship. Yes, very cardigan, I think. Yeah. I just hurt my own feelings with them. Yeah. I'm like, I wrote. I need a real ax.
- [95:02]
Hannah
I also feel like maybe a little bit of midnight rain in there at times.
- [95:06]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes. Oh, my God, you're so good at this. That is so time job accurate, though.
- [95:13]
Hannah
That's very skill.
- [95:15]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
They're very opposites. Like, the two of them are very. They're like, meant to be, like, a good balance of one another. Because Tatiana's, like, was raised in a very, like, loving, accepting, non judgmental households, and that is not how Claire was raised. So Tatiana's kind of coming from that perspective and Claire's kind of coming from the other. And they're meant to rebalance each other, but they don't always do that.
- [95:38]
Hannah
Have you heard the song Silver Spoons? By goodness, I'll have to look after.
- [95:44]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes, yes. I think of them a lot when I listen to that one. A hundred percent. That one's a perfect descriptor for this. That. Yes. Oh, my God. Wait, that's chills. I have, like, goosebumps. It's kind of sad, though. It's sad. It's sad, but it is very accurate to the two of them, because Tatiana has, like, such a happy relationship. Like, I loved meeting her. I loved, like, introducing her dad because her dad is just such a perfect example of her dad is a lot like my dad. Which was nice because I was like, it's good to give my dad, like, this representation because when he read book one, he was like, what did I do? Like, what did I do wrong? And I was like, it's not you. You're not the dad. And so it was nice to give, like, some good father representation in that book.
- [96:29]
Kinsey
I loved that his whole boat was pink.
- [96:32]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't originally that way, but when I was sitting and I was, like, thinking about him as a character, I was like, no, he would paint the whole boat pink, and Tatiana would be like, you could have just done. But he's like, Tatiana is very extra. Like, she likes to Go all out. And she got that from her dad, so of course he's going to paint the whole boat pink. Like, that's just ridiculous.
- [96:52]
Hannah
These next three can be super quick if you'd like King Benedict.
- [96:57]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, ew. Ew.
- [97:02]
Kinsey
She's like, pass.
- [97:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I've got to think for him.
- [97:05]
Hannah
Does he even earn the honor of getting a Taylor Swift song?
- [97:07]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
No. No. I feel like he could get a song. It would just have to be, like, a really shallow. No, actually, like, he. Oh, he's so hard. Because I, like, hate him. But he's. He's such a good antagonist. Like, he's. He's a. I'm trying to think of a very antagonistic one of her songs. I'm like, all of her songs are too pure for him. Like, he can't have any of them. I suppose it would be something from reputation, I think. I don't know that he deserves reputation, but. But I would imagine. Oh, maybe actually something from the Tortured Poets Department. And I can't think of the exact song in my head, but I know I feel tug in that direction that.
- [97:48]
Hannah
It might be like, those album names are sufficient. I think I get the vibe.
- [97:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think the Tortured Poets Department. Something within that, I think, oh, he would be the smallest man that ever lived. Duh. I knew it was like, in there. I was like, there is a song that could be him, and I cannot, for some. He would be the smallest man that ever lived. Yeah. 100%. Him and Evie's dad can fight over that honor of who gets that one. Yeah.
- [98:12]
Hannah
What about Evie's mom?
- [98:14]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Evie's mom is so complicated. Like, she's a very complex character. And I hadn't. Honestly, when I first introduced her, she wasn't intended to be that way. It was that as soon as I started writing her, I was writing about her from Evie's perspective. And I'm like, from Evie's perspective, she was 13, and she was left alone with a parent that ended up being really not a great parent, and with a baby that she had to raise, essentially and kind of give up her entire life to be 13 years old. She's a kid raising another kid, and she kind of had to give up, like, her entire childhood. And that is not something that you forget very easily. But she's also grappling with that and knowing the trauma her mother has been through at the hands of the same man who put her through things. Things. It's very complicated with her mom. And also she wants her. Her and Lyssa to have a relationship because she doesn't want Lyssa to feel that her resentment and then resent her mom in turn. God, her mom is so, so complicated. I feel like her mom might be, like, it wouldn't be Auntie Hero is too upbeat. But it would be something along those lines. Like, it would be something along. I am, like, very flawed and I'm perfect and I mess up all the time, but I'm trying to. Trying. Like, it's not. This is me trying. I just can't. It'll come. It'll come. Yeah, her mom's tough.
- [99:35]
Hannah
Finally, Winnie.
- [99:38]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, Winnie. Winnie's hilarious. Winnie's hilarious. Because she doesn't get sarcasm. That's why I was, like, at first. My editor, when we were first, like, meeting her, my editor highlighted this and I was like, no, no, she's not supposed to get it. Like, she just doesn't get it. Winnie probably would be. I don't know why this was the first one that popped into my head, but what a coulda, shoulda.
- [100:01]
Hannah
Oh.
- [100:02]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I don't know why I'm gravitating towards the sad ones, but I feel like.
- [100:06]
Kinsey
Well, her mom just died.
- [100:07]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. And she's had kind of a rough. You learn more about it. But she's kind of had a rough go of it. So I think that that song would actually be pretty accurate to her, especially the line where. And this applies to so many of the characters, but the living for the thrill of hitting you where it hurts. Give me back my girlhood. It was mine first.
- [100:25]
Hannah
That's the line that my brain immediately went to. And you said it. That's why, I guess.
- [100:28]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that line, just specifically that line would be. Be very Winnie. But I need to get to know her more, I think, before I really nail down her song. Like, I need more time with her, I think. But I'll come back to you with a better answer.
- [100:42]
Hannah
Perfect. Perfect. Okay. And to wrap it all up, do you have a song that you feel like represents Book four overarching.
- [100:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, you know what? I don't have one in mind just yet because it's still so early. But I think we're veering back into Speak now territory, and that's a good sign. I think Long Live, obviously will be a big one in this one. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I feel like that one. And I need more. I'll come back to you with this one, too, because I need more time with Book four before I make a hard and fast decision. Yay.
- [101:16]
Hannah
You nailed all, like, I'm very impressed. You were very quick.
- [101:19]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I was thinking, I feel like I could have done better. I'll study that next time, and I'll come back with better answers.
- [101:26]
Hannah
It is now time to shake things up with our are you smarter than a fan girl? Rapid fire trivia segment where we test the ultimate question. Does the author remember their own book better than a totally unhinged reader? Here's how it works. One of us will take off our headphones while Hannah Nicole answers as many trivia questions about accomplice to the villain and as she can under 90 seconds. Once time's up, the fangirl will come back on and try to answer those same questions from memory. No notes, no context, just pure fangirl chaos. Then we'll tally up the scores and see who reigns supreme.
- [102:06]
Kinsey
I will be the fangirl of this episode. Carly will be the game host, and Hannah is our scorekeeper.
- [102:13]
Carly
Will the author triumph? Will our host crumble under pressure? There's only one way to find the out. If you don't know the answer, feel free to say pass. Remember, this is all in good fun, and honestly, it's probably more entertaining if you don't remember. All right, Hannah Nicole, are you ready?
- [102:32]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. I was ready as I think it'll ever be. I'm so scared. Okay. Oh, God. Okay, I'm ready.
- [102:40]
Carly
Kendi, we're going to have you take your headphones off, and we're going to have you set a timer to come back. The scorekeeper is going to signal you when it's time for you to start your timer. Are you ready?
- [102:49]
Hannah
I'll count down.
- [102:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Okay.
- [102:51]
Carly
Okay.
- [102:52]
Hannah
All right. Three, two, one, go.
- [102:57]
Carly
What color are Evie's eyes?
- [102:59]
Hannah
Oh, blue.
- [103:00]
Carly
What is Tristan's nickname for Lissa?
- [103:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, Lady Lissa. What is Evie or little villain? One of the other.
- [103:09]
Carly
What is Evie's middle name?
- [103:11]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, Celia.
- [103:12]
Carly
What color of flower did Lissa paint on Becky's hand?
- [103:16]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh. Oh, God. Pink. It might have been pink.
- [103:22]
Carly
What is Tristan's mom's name?
- [103:25]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, Amara.
- [103:27]
Carly
Which kingdom is Kingsley, Prince of the Southern kingdom. What is the name of the enchantress's daughter?
- [103:35]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Winifred.
- [103:36]
Carly
What is the dragon's name?
- [103:38]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Fluffy.
- [103:39]
Carly
What did Evie forget to add to her drawing of Tristan?
- [103:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Horns.
- [103:44]
Carly
What flavor of cake did Tristan have the ship's cook bake Evie for her birthday?
- [103:48]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Vanilla.
- [103:50]
Carly
What are the last words of the kissing tree Cave monster?
- [103:53]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, remember me when you're with the trees.
- [103:56]
Carly
Who is Calvin's dad?
- [103:59]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh. Oh, my God. Otto Orchard.
- [104:03]
Carly
How many life rules does Blade Have.
- [104:05]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, I think. I think there's five of them.
- [104:09]
Carly
How old is Tristan?
- [104:10]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, Tristan is 29.
- [104:13]
Carly
What is the crest of the southern kingdom?
- [104:16]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, it's a lily pad.
- [104:18]
Carly
What is the sixth rule of villainy?
- [104:21]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think it's don't tell people about the list of villainies.
- [104:25]
Hannah
Time.
- [104:26]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Okay.
- [104:26]
Carly
Perfect.
- [104:28]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
You did so good. My heart was scouting.
- [104:33]
Hannah
That was impressive.
- [104:34]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Thank you. I was so nervous. You did great.
- [104:37]
Kinsey
I'm probably gonna fail. I feel like my brain just, like, completely went blank.
- [104:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
No, I believe in you. I believe in you.
- [104:45]
Carly
You're gonna be great. It's gonna be fine.
- [104:47]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Thanks.
- [104:48]
Carly
Okay, Hannah, let me know when you're ready with a timer.
- [104:51]
Kinsey
Wait, I'm not ready yet. I need a little bit of help from my assistant first.
- [104:55]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, okay. Okay. You win.
- [105:04]
Hannah
You won.
- [105:04]
Kinsey
Thank you.
- [105:05]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Thank you. We don't have the quiz. Be just kidding. She already won.
- [105:10]
Hannah
So for listeners, if you are not watching, over on Patreon, Kinsey just pulled out a crochet Kingsley, and he is sitting, ready to assist on her shoulder.
- [105:21]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Sitting so nicely on your shoulder. Is it magnet?
- [105:24]
Kinsey
There's a magnet. So when I made him, I put a magnet inside, and so I just, like, slipped it on under my shirt.
- [105:29]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
There's a hole where my fiance did the same thing because he tried to wear a Kingsley at a convention, and it kept falling off. So he, too, has a magnetized one. Yours is very cute, though. His is, like, tiny and made of clay. It's still cute, but. Oh, I love that. That one is.
- [105:43]
Hannah
She made hers by hand.
- [105:45]
Carly
Yeah, she crocheted it herself.
- [105:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I tried crocheting once and literally had a mental breakdown. It was. It was truly an experience. I have people that crochet. Amazing.
- [105:54]
Kinsey
Yeah, Well, I don't normally make animals or. So this was, like, my first time making, like, a little stuffy. Normally I make, like, clothes and bags and things like that, so I was like, oh, this is hard.
- [106:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
So casually. I can make clothes. Like, I. I can't even draw a stick figure. I have no fine motor skills. Like, none. I could just type and that's it.
- [106:12]
Carly
I on that one.
- [106:14]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [106:15]
Carly
She shared pictures of her crochet, and I'm always like, oh, I could never.
- [106:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I could never. I could never. I could never. I tried. Could never.
- [106:21]
Carly
All right, now that you have your assistant in place, are you ready?
- [106:24]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I guess.
- [106:25]
Kinsey
Oh, God, I'm nervous.
- [106:27]
Carly
Is my timekeeper ready?
- [106:29]
Hannah
She is ready.
- [106:30]
Carly
Okay.
- [106:31]
Hannah
3, 2, 1, go.
- [106:35]
Carly
What color are Evie's eyes?
- [106:36]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Blue.
- [106:38]
Carly
What is Tristan's nickname for Lissa?
- [106:40]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, shit.
- [106:42]
Kinsey
I don't know.
- [106:43]
Hannah
Okay.
- [106:44]
Carly
What is Evie's middle name?
- [106:46]
Kinsey
Celia.
- [106:47]
Carly
What color of flower did Lissa paint on Becky's hand?
- [106:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Pink.
- [106:52]
Carly
What is Tristan's mom's name?
- [106:54]
Kinsey
I always call her bitch, but it's Amara.
- [106:59]
Carly
Which kingdom is Kingsley, prince of?
- [107:01]
Kinsey
Southern Kingdom.
- [107:02]
Carly
What is the name of the enchantress's daughter?
- [107:05]
Kinsey
Winnie.
- [107:06]
Carly
What is the dragon's name?
- [107:08]
Kinsey
Fluffy.
- [107:09]
Carly
What did Evie forget to add to her drawing of Tristan?
- [107:13]
Kinsey
Horns.
- [107:14]
Carly
What flavor cake did Tristan have the ship's cook bake Evie for her birthday?
- [107:20]
Kinsey
Vanilla.
- [107:21]
Carly
What are the last words of the kissing tree Cave monster?
- [107:25]
Kinsey
Remember me when you think of me when you see the trees.
- [107:29]
Carly
Who is Calvin's dad?
- [107:31]
Kinsey
Otto Warson.
- [107:33]
Carly
How many life rules does Blade have?
- [107:37]
Kinsey
7 or 8, maybe.
- [107:40]
Carly
How old is Tristan?
- [107:42]
Kinsey
29.
- [107:44]
Carly
What is the crest of the southern kingdom?
- [107:46]
Kinsey
Lily Pad.
- [107:47]
Carly
What is the sixth rule of villainy?
- [107:50]
Kinsey
Don't share the rules of villainy.
- [107:54]
Carly
What was the color of the blanket Gideon wrapped Keely in?
- [107:59]
Kinsey
I don't know.
- [108:02]
Carly
Which of Neura's children has her Smile Time.
- [108:06]
Hannah
Okay, okay, so I did a thing where I didn't actually mark down the. The number that you made it to previously. So we made it to 17 with you, Kinsey. And then the last one that they.
- [108:19]
Carly
Each answered was the same one, though.
- [108:21]
Hannah
Oh, was it? Oh, okay. Well, that was close. We should go over the ones really quick that were wrong just to make sure that we have ours accurate. So, Hannah, we have 11. What are the last words of the kissing tree cave monster? Think of me when you're with the trees. You said remember, which was still very, very close. And also, Kinsey said remember first, so I think it can count.
- [108:48]
Carly
Yeah, I count that.
- [108:49]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
He's so kind.
- [108:50]
Hannah
12 is who is Calvin's dad? And you both said, Otto Warson, that we have written the sun. Okay, so Otter worst is.
- [108:59]
Carly
That's the answer. It just got copied in there a little funny when I moved it over.
- [109:03]
Hannah
No worries. And then how many life rules does Blade have? 6. Damn, you both got that one. I think you said five. Oh, I think you said five.
- [109:14]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I said seven.
- [109:15]
Hannah
That was the only one you technically didn't get.
- [109:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
We both were close. We both right between.
- [109:22]
Hannah
Kinsey, what is Tristan's nickname for Lissa? Little villain.
- [109:27]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Ah. Okay.
- [109:28]
Kinsey
I could only think little tornado. I'm like, that's not her.
- [109:31]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [109:32]
Hannah
The color of the blanket Gideon wrapped Keeley in was pink.
- [109:36]
Kinsey
I wanted to say pink. I just was like, it was because.
- [109:39]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
It was from Tatiana's. Like, anything that comes out of that place is pink.
- [109:43]
Kinsey
That makes Sense.
- [109:45]
Hannah
So, Hannah, you did win, but, Kinsey, you were only off by two.
- [109:51]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. You killed it, so that's impressive. You killed it. I didn't embarrass myself. You did it at all. I was so impressed. I was like, dang. You want to write the next one? Yeah. I'll come over.
- [110:03]
Kinsey
We can tag team it.
- [110:04]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Yeah, perfect. I'll do a chapter. I'll do a chapter. It'll get done so much faster.
- [110:09]
Kinsey
Yeah, I'm down.
- [110:11]
Hannah
Kinsey, you're playing this so cool. I'm really impressed.
- [110:14]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [110:14]
Carly
You were so nervous, too. I know.
- [110:16]
Hannah
I was, too, though.
- [110:17]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
You just. I got nervous. I was like, it's. Somebody walked up to me with a quote from my book on their shirt, and they were like. And I went, oh, I love that. Why does that sound familiar? It's so familiar. It's a line from the first one where it's like, we're all monsters in the end, but at least mine lives in the light. Like, one of the most popular lines from the book. It was one of my favorites, too. And it still went. I know that from somewhere. And it took me, like, a good two minutes because they were like, yeah, you do. And I was like, oh, I wrote that.
- [110:44]
Kinsey
You're just being humble.
- [110:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. I was like, that was just trying to be silly.
- [110:49]
Carly
I did pull questions only from accomplice because I was like, that's the freshest one. Going back to book one felt unfair at this point.
- [110:57]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. Next time, just do it. We'll see how it goes. Yeah. It's been so long since I picked up book one. I need to. Although I do go back in reference at times. It's. And. But not the whole thing. Its entirety. Now, do you have, like, a book.
- [111:15]
Kinsey
Bible to, like, keep things straight?
- [111:18]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
A little bit. But a lot of it feels real to me, so it's like I kind of just know in my head there's some things that I like, need. Little things that I need to double check. Like a minor character. I forget what color I said their eyes was. I have to go back and see what color their eyes are. We actually have a character chart where we put everything so I can go back and reference that for any characters that pop up. But. But usually the big stuff stays and medium stuff stays. Little details are the stuff that I actually get stumped on that I have to go back to double check.
- [111:46]
Kinsey
Nice.
- [111:47]
Hannah
Before we let Hannah go, we are going to close with a little tradition. We're calling the reader's letter a short appreciation letter. To the author. Shared only if, of course, our guests are comfortable with it.
- [111:59]
Kinsey
Okay. The goal is to make you cry.
- [112:01]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Just kidding.
- [112:02]
Kinsey
No, it's not.
- [112:03]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Honestly, we'll probably succeed.
- [112:06]
Kinsey
Dear fantasy author, thank you for giving us fun, chaotic, and deeply lovable characters like Evie and Blade, who remind us what it looks like to live authentically, unapologetically, and with just the right amount of villainous flair. Thank you for twisting tropes in all the best ways where the heroine doesn't have to shed her femininity to be the villain of the prophecy or to wear fabulous boots while doing it. Thank you for Tristan, a protective cinnamon roll who pretends he's the bad guy, but proves time and time again best villains are the heroes of their own stories. Immediate book boyfriend status. Top tier. No notes. Thank you for nearly sending us in a cardiac arrest every time Kingsley forgot who he was, and for the pure teary joy of watching his curse break. Thank you for redefining the art of slow burn torture. Clearly, our villainous characters learned how to torture from the master. And thank you for showing us that sometimes the best kind of family is the one we find for ourselves. And that even in a world of curses, daggers, and talking frogs, there's comfort, laughter, and healing. Thank you for taking our favorite fairy tales, twisting them into something entirely your own, and adding just the right amount of chaos. It gets better with each book, and we can't wait to see what's next. With love, your fantasy readers.
- [113:29]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. That was so sweet. Thank you. Oh, my God, I am gonna cry. That was so nice. Like, that is so nice. It's especially nice. And I'm sure lots of authors appreciate it for the same reason that it's like a very isolating experience writing a book most of the time. Cause it's usually just you and your laptop. And then eventually everybody kind of comes into it. But it's the initial part. It's like really on your own. So that was very lovely and sweet. I feel like I wanna jump right into book four. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go. Like, I feel so inspired.
- [114:08]
Kinsey
Yeah, only if you're inspired.
- [114:10]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. You guys. I feel like you guys, like, truly and Stacy told me this before I got on with you guys, that she. Because we were on a zoom. And I think it was like, right after she had talked to you guys, she came right on our zoom, and she was like, I just had, like, the best interview. They asked, like, such amazing questions. She said, they said they're talking to you. I Know for a fact you're gonna have a great time. Because they were so fabulous. And it was just so much fun. Like, she's like, it was the most fun. And I like, no, she was so right. It was so. You guys are awesome. Like, this was so much fun.
- [114:41]
Hannah
We're so proud.
- [114:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I was like, I need to write you a letter because this was a lot of fun. I loved, like, all your questions. And it was. It was honestly such a pleasure for me to, like, talk about all the stuff you guys asked. So you did it amazing.
- [114:55]
Hannah
Well, it was our honor.
- [114:56]
Carly
Yeah.
- [114:57]
Hannah
Both you and Stacey and all of our favorite authors, you do give us a letter, like, when you write your books. And so it's such an honor for us to be, like, able to give back even a fraction of what you guys have given us.
- [115:10]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. That is so scary. Oh. Oh, God. It's such like.
- [115:14]
Hannah
Don't make us cry.
- [115:17]
Kinsey
We're sympathetic criers.
- [115:18]
Hannah
She was like, yalls goal was to make me cry.
- [115:20]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I was like, flip it reverse. Let me just.
- [115:24]
Carly
We really are so grateful you took the time to sit with us. So we've been looking forward to this all week. So. Yeah, Jesse.
- [115:31]
Kinsey
For longer than that. Really, like, we've been really so excited.
- [115:34]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
The moment. Oh, my God. Literally, anytime if you guys just want to chat, like, let me know.
- [115:40]
Kinsey
You know where to find us.
- [115:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
This was so fantastic. It was such a great way to spend my Saturday. Like, this is great.
- [115:48]
Hannah
We are so excited to talk to you and Stacy together.
- [115:50]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes.
- [115:51]
Hannah
And listeners don't know that that's happening. They just not in this episod for the first time.
- [115:55]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God.
- [115:56]
Hannah
Amazing.
- [115:56]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I can't. It's gonna be so chaotic. Us together is like a true mess. We have good games too.
- [116:03]
Hannah
We're also gonna have you guys do Are youe Smarter than a Fangirl against each other about each other's books.
- [116:08]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God.
- [116:10]
Hannah
So I'm really proud of that idea.
- [116:13]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, God. All right. I'm gonna reread everything. Cause I have to win.
- [116:16]
Hannah
You just got a heads up.
- [116:17]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I have to win. You guys can send me the questions beforehand and we won't.
- [116:22]
Carly
We'll make you study.
- [116:22]
Hannah
Just give us a margarita.
- [116:24]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah.
- [116:24]
Kinsey
Give us your bonus chapters and some points.
- [116:27]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That. That can be arranged. I'm an Aries.
- [116:30]
Hannah
But we're also underestimate how much I want to win.
- [116:33]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Okay.
- [116:33]
Hannah
So deal as well.
- [116:35]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Deal.
- [116:36]
Hannah
We're going to have to also give Stacy the opportunity to get the cheat sheet as well. And we're just going to, like, go with whoever, you know, bribes us the best.
- [116:42]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That's fair, honestly. Just remember that, like, she kills people way more than I do. Like, people we really, really like, too. I feel like she's kind of a monster.
- [116:56]
Kinsey
She did promise an arc, though, for book two, so.
- [117:00]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Just kidding. I could offer you an arc.
- [117:03]
Hannah
She was like, I'll match it.
- [117:06]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'll tell you the title, right? Yes. Cut the tapes.
- [117:12]
Hannah
We'll do it off camera. It's fine.
- [117:14]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes, yes, yes. Book scouts and crowds find me fine. Yeah.
- [117:17]
Hannah
Okay.
- [117:17]
Carly
I love how, like, a book podcast is the only place you can be. Like, they kill way more people than me, and it's not concern, like, your.
- [117:25]
Hannah
FBI agent is thriving.
- [117:26]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'm so innocent compared to her. Like, she is so, like, she's so mean. I think I actually finished Chasm, and I.
- [117:35]
Carly
They haven't read it yet.
- [117:36]
Hannah
Oh, I haven't read that series yet, so be careful.
- [117:38]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I won't say anything. After I finished it, I sent her a video, and I was hysterical, and I was like, I do not want to be friends with you anymore. I don't want to talk to you ever again. I hate you.
- [117:48]
Hannah
I am terrified.
- [117:49]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, but you know what? That pretty much is on par for all of her books.
- [117:53]
Hannah
You didn't have to wait for book three, though.
- [117:56]
Carly
Like, I read.
- [117:58]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I had to wait. I actually. Usually I don't. You're so right. And I did get to read a lot of them early, but a Ledge, I actually read before she got, like. She was self publishing it originally, and then she got picked up by a trad publisher, and so they pushed it a year. So I had read Ledge, like, in the summer, like, in August, September, and then the Ledge didn't come out till the following year. So I didn't get to read Chasm for, like, a year and a half, and it was hell.
- [118:27]
Carly
I know that cliffhanger. So I feel for you.
- [118:31]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Brutal. Brutal.
- [118:33]
Carly
I bought Ledge when it was, like, first released, but I hadn't gotten around to reading it yet. And I was like, oh, I think I'm gonna wait till closer to when Chasm comes out. And then I'm so glad I did, because I was like, how did people wait a year for this?
- [118:43]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Yeah. It was so awful. And then she looked me in the eye, and I went, everything's gonna be fine, though, right? Like, everything's gonna be fine. And she looked me in the eye and went, everything's gonna be fine. And I called her, and I was like, you looked me in the eye? You Monster. I was like, I'm so innocent. I'm just like a girl compared to you. Like, I'm just an innocent girly, and you're awful.
- [119:06]
Hannah
But I was like, but I'll always.
- [119:07]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Come crawling back to you. I'm like, all right, but where's the next one I'm ready for?
- [119:13]
Kinsey
She knew she had to lie because you. You spill her secrets too easily.
- [119:17]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I think it's one of those things where ignorance is bliss and I'm just gonna, like, let you ride this. And I. I was supposed to read a forbidden alchemy over the course of a week, and I read it in a day right off of deadline, which never happens. I can never, like, read really fast after a deadline. My brain needs time to recoup, but I, like, could not put it down. And then at the end, I was like, you know what? I don't know why I expected anything different. I don't know why I expected any. And you guys have all finished it, right? Oh, yeah, we've all finished.
- [119:40]
Carly
Yeah, we read for it.
- [119:41]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
The Twitter twist that.
- [119:45]
Carly
She had told.
- [119:46]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Me this before she started writing it, and I forgot. I forgot. And then I was so delusional. I convinced myself she wasn't going to do it because I was like, no. The way she set it up, there's just no way she would be that cruel. Like, there's just. And I was genuinely that delusional. I was like, no, no. And I, like, forgot. And then it happened, and I was so shocked. And I texted her, and she's like, I literally told you. Like, I told you exactly that was going to happen. And I was like, I thought you were alive, man. I thought it was a joke. Like you were kidding.
- [120:21]
Kinsey
At least you successfully gaslighted yourself.
- [120:24]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
That's good. I gaslit myself. I'm so good at that. I'm like, no, there's no way. I truly. I do this with all of my friends books. Like, have you guys read the book of Azriel? It's been on my TBR for ages.
- [120:34]
Hannah
It is high on mine.
- [120:35]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
It's fantastic. But Amber's one of our friends in our group, and I texted her anytime I read anything she writes. And I'm like, this didn't happen, though. I'm like, that Delulu. I'm like, no. And she's like, destiny, I'm going to hold your hand when I say this. It did happen.
- [120:48]
Hannah
And I'm like, at least she held your hand. Stacey seemed to just let you free fall.
- [120:53]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I'm like, stacy, you kissed that brick before you threw it at my face. More accurate for her. I was like, it hurt. It hurt like, ow.
- [121:02]
Kinsey
I saw her special editions for the Book of Azriel are coming, so I.
- [121:06]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes. I'm so excited. I have so many copies of all of their books, like, to a point where there's no room on my shelf anymore, because I just have, like, all.
- [121:14]
Kinsey
Of them lined up in our own shelf.
- [121:16]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I know I truly need. I think I'm gonna get one next to my desk for just their books so I can, like, look at them when I'm writing.
- [121:22]
Hannah
That's so sweet.
- [121:23]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. Cause I'm like, there's just truly. No, they keep writing bangers. There's no room left on the shelf. Yeah.
- [121:27]
Kinsey
That's the best friend group.
- [121:29]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah. They're truly, like, the best people. I somehow wormed my way into all of these friendships, and I'm like, I don't know. I conned all of you, and no one's realized it yet, but they're, like, the best people ever. I like, Stacey's truly, like, one of the best people I've ever met in my life. Like, she's. And she would be like, oh, stop. That's uncut. Don't. Don't do that. Don't do that. And I'd be like, but you're the greatest. Like, I can't. Yeah. But I'm glad she let you read her a letter, because she deserves to hear how we were so surprised.
- [122:00]
Hannah
But she took it really well.
- [122:01]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yes.
- [122:02]
Hannah
She said she was practicing receiving compliments. She is. And so we gave her that.
- [122:05]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
She got a lot better because she doesn't cringe as much when I say, God, this was amazing. And she's like, you are so biased. And I'm like, I'm literally not. Because I actually hate you after every book. We're almost not friends after every single book. And I still really like the book.
- [122:20]
Carly
So there is a feeling after Stacy's books where you're like, how dare you?
- [122:26]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Yeah, you monster. You monster. But then I'm like, God, you're so good at it. Cause, like, this feeling so intensely in me that I am, like, on the ground. And I'm like, I know you. Like, I know this person. I have a number of my phone. Like, we text. That's crazy. And she's like, oh, my God, stop. Like, no, I won't.
- [122:48]
Carly
Never.
- [122:49]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Never.
- [122:50]
Kinsey
Well, thank you again so much for chatting with us. I think we've all just had such a great time.
- [122:56]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
The vets is so fun, you guys are amazing. It's been a blast. I'm just, like, beaming. I had a great time. Yay.
- [123:05]
Kinsey
And for the listeners, we have LinkedIn and Nicole Mayer's socials down in the show notes so you can follow along and stay up to date on this series.
- [123:13]
Hannah
Thank you. Like, there's just nothing else we can say outside of we've. You've been the best. Yeah. And we're so excited to meet you at Folks gowns and crowns.
- [123:21]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I know. I can't wait. I can't wait. We're gonna have so much fun. I know. Fabulous.
- [123:24]
Kinsey
I'm gonna bring my books.
- [123:27]
Hannah
Please do.
- [123:27]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Please do. I'll be ready. Yay.
- [123:30]
Carly
Yeah. Thank you so much. We really, really appreciated you doing this with us because it was really one of the highlights of our summer. So thank you so much.
- [123:37]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Oh, my God. You guys are so sweet. Thanks. Oh, my God. This was amazing.
- [123:43]
Hannah
Oh, she is absolutely incredible.
- [123:46]
Kinsey
That was so much better than I was expecting. And I have literally been looking forward to to this for months. I've said this a million times already, but that was just so fun.
- [123:56]
Hannah
That's an understatement. That can be. You have been fangirling hard since we got that email.
- [124:03]
Kinsey
This is one of my favorite series. It's just like, it's just such a fun, silly comfort book for me. So to get to talk to the author.
- [124:13]
Hannah
Well, and we've followed her on TikTok for a long time, so it's like, oh, my God, this is so cool.
- [124:19]
Carly
I think it's so interesting to hear about her creative process. It's so interesting.
- [124:22]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
It's so fun.
- [124:23]
Hannah
She must slipped up a couple times.
- [124:24]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
I know. She's such a sweetheart too.
- [124:28]
Hannah
Oh, my God.
- [124:31]
Carly
If this is your first time listening, welcome. We are Hannah, Kenzie and Carly, three book besties who deep dive, theorize, fangirl and crash course. Your favorite fantasy read. So you're always ready for what's next.
- [124:40]
Hannah
Occasionally, we get to interview amazing authors like Hannah, Nicole Mayer. And if you're wondering who's coming on on next, we'll announce all upcoming author interviews over on Instagram, so be sure to follow us over there.
- [124:52]
Kinsey
We just wrapped our season three chapters by chapters Deep Dive of Onyx Storm and are working hard on our next prep season for Burn of the Everflame. That will include recaps, worldbuilding and lore, breakdowns, and more.
- [125:03]
Carly
You can join us over on Patreon where you can access all of our episodes ad free a day early and in full. Video plus extras like PDF, annotations shout outs, bonus resources, and more.
- [125:12]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
More.
- [125:12]
Kinsey
You'll find our Patreon link in the Show Notes along with all the ways you can support the show, whether that's joining a tier, subscribing, leaving a review, or just sharing us with your fellow Romantasy readers.
- [125:22]
Hannah
You can also find more info about our previous and upcoming seasons, episode and events, calendar, other author interviews, our contact form and more on our newly revamped website that I am so proud of. So please go check it out@dearfantasyreader.com, also linked down in the Show Notes.
- [125:37]
Carly
We'd love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, tag us on Instagram, or come fangirl with us over your favorite fantasy books in our free Discord Chat.
- [125:44]
Hannah
Until next time, dearest fantasy readers, May your chapters be spicy, your book boyfriends morally gray, and your TBR organized just enough to justify one more pre order or three or three. Maybe four by the time you hear this interview. Maybe five if she ends up writing a book.
- [126:07]
Hannah Nicole Mayer
Five. Yeah.
- [126:08]
Kinsey
And now there's the special editions too.
- [126:10]
Carly
So just never ends.
- [126:15]
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