Hazel McBride | A Dear Fantasy Author Interview

Summary

Episode Overview

In this special edition of the Dear Fantasy Reader podcast, hosts Hannah, Kinsey, and Carly engage in an insightful interview with Hazel McBride, the author of the upcoming romantic fantasy novel, "A Fate Forged in Fire," slated for release on May 27th, 2025. This episode delves deep into Hazel's inspirations, writing process, and the intricate themes woven into her debut Romantasy work.

Introduction and Background

The episode kicks off with the hosts introducing Hazel McBride and outlining the structure of the interview. Hazel shares her excitement about discussing her book, noting, "I'm so excited to be here. I literally cannot wait to chat with all of you" (00:31). The hosts also provide content warnings, emphasizing the sensitive themes addressed in the book, such as attempted sterilization, ensuring listeners are informed and can navigate the discussion with care.

Inspirations and World-Building

Hazel draws significant inspiration from her Scottish heritage and Celtic folklore, which profoundly influence the world-building in "A Fate Forged in Fire." She explains, "I went up to the Highlands and Islands, and just that landscape, like, it just makes sense that a dragon would exist there" (08:04). This connection brings authenticity to her fantasy world, Erasocia, where elements of Scottish culture, including language and mythology, are intricately integrated. Hazel mentions working with a Gaelic proofreader to respectfully incorporate Scottish Gaelic, ensuring accurate pronunciation and cultural representation (15:30).

Themes of Matriarchy, Misogyny, and Identity

A central theme in Hazel's novel is the exploration of matriarchy and its confrontation with misogyny. Hazel shares her motivation, stating, "I am bisexual myself, so in writing Emira, I was trying to write the character I wish I could have read about when I was younger" (20:11). The book addresses patriarchal religion's oppression of women, a reflection of Hazel's personal experiences and societal observations. She candidly discusses the challenges of embedding these themes, including grappling with her own internalized misogyny, such as when she unintentionally populated a council entirely with men before realizing the need for gender balance (22:05).

Writing Process and Publishing Journey

Transitioning from an indie author to a traditionally published writer, Hazel reflects on the differences and benefits of each path. She expresses gratitude for her agent and publishing team, emphasizing the collaborative effort behind the book's success. "I feel so lucky with where this book has landed on both sides of the pond. I feel so supported" (10:47). Hazel acknowledges the accessibility indie publishing has provided to many authors but notes it wasn't the right fit for her, appreciating the structured support from traditional publishing.

Character Development and Emotional Depth

Throughout the interview, Hazel highlights the emotional complexity of her characters, particularly the protagonist, Emira. She discusses crafting Emira's resilience and vulnerability, aiming to create a character that embodies both strength and depth. Hazel shares her favorite scenes, such as when Fiorion stitches Emira's wounds (34:46) and the intense emotional exchanges that define their relationship.

Handling Sensitive Content

Addressing the intense themes of trauma and forced sterilization, Hazel explains her deliberate approach to portraying such experiences authentically and respectfully. "If you're going to make the decision to write about something as traumatic as a forced sterilization, I'm not going to beat about the bush" (37:11). She emphasizes the importance of confronting uncomfortable truths and encouraging readers to engage thoughtfully with difficult topics.

Future Projects and Series Expansion

Looking ahead, Hazel reveals ambitious plans for her fantasy series, envisioning 11 standalone duologies set across five territories within Erasocia. She teases upcoming books, prequels, and the expansive world-building that awaits readers. "If I give you the short answer, it's 11. But it's not a full series, so it's standalone duologies" (52:21). Hazel expresses enthusiasm for continuing to develop her universe, hinting at deeper lore and interconnected storylines.

Notable Quotes

• Hannah: "Or like fangirling harder than speaking of, we are huge romantasy fangirls. What is one thing, book related or not, that you are an unashamed fangirl of? And there are no wrong answers." (00:05)

• Hazel McBride: "I am bisexual myself, so in writing Emira, I was trying to write the character I wish I could have read about when I was younger." (20:11)

• Hazel McBride: "I feel so lucky with where this book has landed on both sides of the pond. I feel so supported." (10:47)

• Hazel McBride: "If you're going to make the decision to write about something as traumatic as a forced sterilization, I'm not going to beat about the bush." (37:11)

Conclusion

The interview offers a profound glimpse into Hazel McBride's creative process, her dedication to authentic storytelling, and the powerful themes interlaced within "A Fate Forged in Fire." Listeners gain an appreciation for the depth and intention behind Hazel's work, anticipating the release of her novel with heightened interest. The episode culminates with heartfelt appreciation from the hosts, encapsulating the mutual respect and enthusiasm shared between the authors and the Dear Fantasy Reader community.

Reader's Letter

As tradition, the hosts conclude with a Reader's Letter, expressing gratitude and admiration for Hazel's work:

"Dear Fantasy Author, thank you for forging a story with fire and fury in equal measure. You gave us ancient female power dragons and one hell of an enemies to lovers arc a world of magic and pulled us straight into the heart of it. You captured what it looks like when feminine power is feared, silenced, and stripped away, and what it means to keep surviving anyway. You gave us the space to feel the bite of injustice, the righteous fury of wanting to burn it all down, then had the audacity to make us swoon. And then you reminded us that we chose this life of heartbreak and cliffhangers because a story and a message like this is worth it. We're so grateful to have experienced this book early and to see these themes brought to life with such intention and depth. We cannot wait for the rest of the world to feel the fire you've lit. With love, your fantasy readers." (60:15)

Hazel responds emotionally to the letter, highlighting the profound impact her work has on her audience.

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Note: For listeners interested in reading "A Fate Forged in Fire," the hosts provide links to purchase the book in various formats and encourage supporting indie bookstores.

Transcript

[Kinsey]

Foreign.

[Hannah]

Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to a special edition of the Dear Fantasy Reader podcast. Our very first Dear Fantasy Author interview where we get to talk with the brilliant minds behind our favorite Romantasy novels. So if your TBR gets a little bit longer by the end of this episode, you're welcome. I'm Hannah.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey.

[Carly]

And I'm Carly.

[Hannah]

Today we're chatting with Hazel McBride, author of the romantic fantasy A Forged in Fire, which releases May 27th of 2025.

[Carly]

The first portion of this episode will be spoiler free, but we will be diving into spoilers in the second half. Don't worry, we'll give a clear verbal spoiler warning before that shift and then we have a spoiler free clothing segment called the Reader's Letter at the end.

[Kinsey]

Also, due to the nature of this book, this podcast is rated R in.

[Hannah]

Content and language Specific content warning. This book includes themes of attempted sterilization which we will be discussing later in the spoiler portion of the episode. We'll give another verbal heads up before that part of the conversation and we've included timestamps down in the show notes if you would prefer to skip ahead. This topic is personally sensitive for me, so I checked in with a friend who had already read the book to help me identify sections to avoid. If you would like similar guidance before reading, our contact info is in the show notes and we're always happy to help.

[Kinsey]

If you'd like to watch the full video version of this episode, it's available now on Patreon and we've dropped that link in the show notes as well.

[Hannah]

Hazel, thank you so much for joining us. We are honored and excited to have you to talk about a fate forged in fire. It's such a powerful Romantasy debut and we cannot wait to dig into the world, the themes and everything that brought this story to life with you today.

[Hazel McBride]

I'm so excited to be here. I literally cannot wait to chat with all of you.

[Hannah]

Or like fangirling harder than speaking of, we are huge romantasy fangirls. What is one thing, book related or not, that you are an unashamed fangirl of? And there are no wrong answers.

[Hazel McBride]

I mean, it's definitely book related, but Lord of the Rings?

[Kinsey]

Ooh, that's a good one.

[Hazel McBride]

I was hardcore Lord of the Rings nerd when I was a teenager. Books, movies, everything.

[Hannah]

I love that it's not a good time for me to tell you that I've never watched or read Lord of the Rings. I know.

[Hazel McBride]

Okay. I'm Clicking off of this podcast. Goodbye.

[Kinsey]

I didn't know that there are people that existed that still have not seen or read.

[Carly]

How is that possible?

[Hannah]

I. Not to make this about me, but I feel like I'm just, like, triggered by it because it was like an ex's favorite thing, and so I was just like. Yeah. So I just.

[Hazel McBride]

Okay. I disclaimer. I hadn't seen Star wars until this year.

[Carly]

Oh, wow.

[Hannah]

But I don't know. I feel like it's a fantasy fangirl. I should be.

[Hazel McBride]

I should have gone so good.

[Hannah]

We could cut that out of Spine.

[Hazel McBride]

Okay.

[Kinsey]

Even just the music score is just phenomenal.

[Carly]

When Hannah finally makes it out here, I know what we're making her do. We're gonna make her watch Lord of the Rings there.

[Hannah]

Deal.

[Kinsey]

We'll let you know when she's done.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hazel McBride]

And then you need to record a podcast, like, of all your thoughts afterwards.

[Hannah]

I. I feel, like, obligated at this point. I can't believe I outed myself like that. We're really kicking this.

[Kinsey]

Well, if you had to sum up a fate forged in fire for a brand new reader, what would you say?

[Hazel McBride]

So my elevator pitch for it is the Barbie movie, but with dragons and more gay. But if you want the comps, it's like House of the Dragon meets Outlander meets the TV show Rain, which is.

[Hannah]

One of my favorite TV shows of all time.

[Carly]

So good.

[Hazel McBride]

Especially the first two seasons.

[Carly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hannah]

I love Rain season three. I just try and forget that one. But the first two is just. Yeah, no, absolutely. I was actually gonna ask you about this because one of the videos that I had seen of you called the book Barbie meets House of Dragon. And so if you could. Because I think that's the perfect hook. It got me. It sold me. Can you break that down for us? What exactly that looks like for you? And how those two worlds collide in a fate forged and fire.

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah. So it's like the Barbie movie, obviously. I feel like any woman or girl watching that, massively connected to it. It's like if girlhood was a movie, but more specifically, how Barbies lived in Barbieland. It was technically a matriarchy. The Barbies all had their individual things that they were succeeding at, and they were equal to the kens. And the kens were just kind of living their lives. They weren't oppressed or hated on or anything. They just existed. And they were just existing happily by themselves. So I was kind of thinking about, like, okay, well, what would a human matriarchy actually look like? And how would that look in a fantasy world? And I really like dragons, so let's put dragons in there as well. And obviously, I think America Ferreira's speech tugged at the heartstrings of every single woman. So there's a healthy dose of female rage in the pages, too.

[Kinsey]

Absolutely.

[Hannah]

That's our favorite part. Can I say that accurately for all three of us, that the female rage coming out through. You wrote it, you captured it so well. It's infuriating.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, yeah, I felt it. I felt the rage for sure.

[Carly]

The rage was, like, equal parts written just beautifully, but also just makes you feel it where you feel that rage for her. And it's just. Yeah, it really got me.

[Hazel McBride]

It's really sad as well, because this book, well, the manuscript was written in 2023, and I feel like it's only got more poignant in the years since, obviously, we're publishing in the current climate. And unfortunately, I think it's even more of a mirror to today's society, which is a really sad fact. But I don't know if that means that it's a good thing it was written or it's a good thing more people will be reading it now.

[Hannah]

I would say so. I mean, that's part of what I knew when I read it, because I read it before Kinsey and Carly, and I knew that it was going to be something that they could connect to. But also, there's still hope in a fantasy book. And that's one of my favorite things about Romantasy specifically. But our fantasy books and why at least I read them is because I think you engaged way more deeply than we get to see in a lot of Romancy books with these themes. But to be able to also see the hope at the end of the tunnel with books that we may or may not be able to feel as connected to in real life is a big draw. So I think you captured it really well. And I'm preemptively saying that I can't wait for the next books because of that. Well, thank you.

[Hazel McBride]

I mean, I appreciate that. Obviously, it is a duology. So by the time you finish book one, you are really deep in it. You know, it's like it's got a huge emotional weight, obviously. And not to get spoilery or anything, but, you know, there's hope waiting in book two, is what I'm gonna say. You know, Ymira's got a lot to process for her to process in book two.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Which we'll be getting more into that in the spoiler. Section, which is why we're not gonna follow up on that right this moment.

[Carly]

I'm so curious. Do you remember what first pulled you into this world and made you want to write it? What was that spark of creativity that was like, ooh, this.

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah. So I am Scottish. And round about the same time where I was getting hugely inspired by the House of the Dragon TV show, I went on holiday home to Scotland with my husband. We went up to the Highlands and Islands, and just that landscape, like, it just makes sense that a dragon would exist there. And, you know, I was already kind of putting together, like, the characters and the plot. And that whole trip is really when, like, the world building started to take off. And I was, you know, taking notes of, you know, different mountain formations and, like, town names and all of these, like, little abandoned brochs that you would see. And I was like, oh, I wonder, like, what clan would live somewhere like that? So, you know, that was three weeks of just going up through the Highlands and driving around and starting to build this world of Erasocia, which is why I think there's so much Scottish culture and Celtic folklore within it. And, yeah, that's definitely the reason why.

[Kinsey]

Love that.

[Carly]

Because you could really feel the landscape, I feel like, when you read the book. So I think that makes so much sense because it was. It really felt the location. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

So with release day just around the corner, I imagine there are a lot of emotions in the mix for you right now. How are you feeling knowing that your story that you've worked on for so long is finally about to be in reader's hands?

[Hazel McBride]

It's kind of insane. You know, on one hand, it's incredibly overwhelming, like, this is my book, baby. And people are going to be like, you pour so much of your heart and soul into. Into writing a book, and it is so personal. And then knowing that readers are gonna have it is equal parts terrifying and exciting. But you just have to remind yourself, art is subjective. Not everyone is gonna love this book. I haven't loved every book I've ever read, but the right reader is gonna connect with it, and it's gonna find its way to the people who are supposed to love it. And I cannot wait to connect with those readers and chat about the characters like we're doing today and figure out their favorite parts of the story and what they think about for the next books and what they want more information on. I've been sitting on these characters for, like, 18 months, and I haven't been able to talk about them with anyone. So it's so lovely to be able to do that now.

[Kinsey]

Secret's finally out.

[Hannah]

Yep.

[Carly]

You walked both sides of the publishing path. First as an indie author with Ocean's Daughter trilogy, and now as a traditionally published author with a Fate, Fortune, fire. What's that shift been like for you?

[Hazel McBride]

Necessary. You know, I have huge respect for every single indie author out there because I know firsthand how hard it is you have to be a Jack of all trades. You know, you're writing the book, you're finding an editor, sourcing cover designers, you're doing the marketing, you're doing the formatting, the distribution. It's about 10 different jobs and I was not doing it very successfully. I was not so great at it. And that's okay to admit. That's just me being very self aware. So I feel very lucky that my agent found me. I love her. She's an angel. She is never allowed to leave me. She knows this. Under pain of death, will she ever leave me. But having a team behind this book has been incredible. And I feel so lucky with where this book has landed on both sides of the pond. At both publishers. I feel so supported. You know, all of them take the time to answer any questions I have, any queries. You know, they're there to absolutely put my mind at ease. They are the biggest champions of this book. They understand the characters. Honestly, I couldn't have asked for better. And I know it's a very privileged position to have a traditional publishing deal and have an agent. I'm very aware that, yes, I got it. Oh my goodness. Finally. But yeah, I'm so grateful for literally every single person that's brought this book into the world. Yeah.

[Carly]

I can't imagine trying to be good at 10 jobs. Like you've said. I follow a lot of indie authors on Instagram and it looks impossible to do it all well. So I'm glad that for you it's been a good experience transitioning, and it felt like it was what you needed.

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely become more accessible in recent years. And I think a lot more indie authors are very open about explaining how to do it yourselves, which I think is fantastic. It's taking that privilege out of publishing. No matter who you are. If you have a story to tell now, you have the tools at your disposal to be able to do that. And I think that's amazing and incredible and I think every single indie author should be commended for that. It just wasn't the right path for me, clearly.

[Carly]

Yeah, yeah, well.

[Hannah]

And I think Also from a reader's perspective, the post, at least on social media, of indie authors communicating what all goes into it for the purpose of helping other indie authors also shows us how much goes into it. Because I can't speak for everyone, but before I started the podcast and really dove deep into books and what goes into on behind the scenes, I didn't have a clue how much it took to publish independently. And so I think it's so important also that that information is out there for us to know that like when we pick up an indie book, we are aware of how many steps it took to even get into our hands.

[Carly]

We love our indies and our trads, but a special place in our heart for all of you, including you, Hazel, who have done the work to try to get those books in readers hands, even when you had to do it all on your own.

[Kinsey]

I can only imagine how exciting it was to get that call. I'm doing it. Amazing.

[Hazel McBride]

It was so interesting actually, because when I had started writing this manuscript, I was still an indie author and I was just kind of in the mindset of, oh, well, I guess I'm doing this. And I was researching really, oh God, how do I do it better? Because I really believed in this story. And I was like, okay, so I need to do this now and I need to save up for this so that I can afford that. And I was working with a woman who's now one of my very good friends, Alessia. She's a freelance editor. So I was slowly putting my own team together. And then my agent reached out and we had our first zoom call and I was very open with her. I was like, hey, I still don't know what I'm going to choose, which path I'm going to go down. But it became very clear by the end of our zoom call that we gelled really well and she had an incredible vision for the book from the chapters that I had sent her. So yeah, it didn't take long for me to be convinced, put it that way.

[Carly]

I'm so glad you have that support. That's awesome.

[Hannah]

Shout out to your team.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hazel McBride]

Team effort.

[Hannah]

Yeah. You also mentioned that you grew up in Scotland and drew deeply from your Celtic heritage and Scottish folklore in this book, including the use of Scottish Gaelic for names, places and world building. You even included a pronunciation guide and are working on an audio version for readers. Thank you. Why was it important to you to integrate the language and culture so closely into the story? And was Scottish Gaelic a language you grew up with or something you had to revisit while writing.

[Hazel McBride]

That's such a great question. So from the outset, obviously, when I was world building, everything in Scotland, I knew I wanted this fantasy world to really reflect my home. And in some ways, it's kind of felt like a homecoming. I moved away from Scotland when I was 21, lived in Scotland up until then, and it wasn't until I left I was kind of like, oh, God. I actually really like my country because when you live there, it rains all the time and you kind of get bogged down by it's cold. You're always like, oh, there's nothing to do. And then I moved away and I was like, wait. It's actually really beautiful. And we have a really rich history and culture. So, yeah, writing this has really felt like a homecoming. So when you have dragon riders wearing kilts and they're attending Ceilies and they're eating bannocks, and I've even got some Scots words in there. Scots is a different dialect language compared to Scottish Gaelic. So Scots words like sleekit, meaning sneaky, or glake it. My gran used to always say, wipe that Glaiket look off your face, which is like, wipe that dopey look off your face. So a lot of those words have made it in, too. So when I was exploring that, if I hadn't also used Scottish Gaelic, it would almost have felt exclusionary. So I was like, okay, I really want to use it, but I want to be mindful of how I'm using it, because I did not grow up speaking Scottish Gaelic. So we hired a Gaelic proofreader called Lauren, who was amazing. She went through the manuscript, she wrote out all of the pronunciations for us. She let me know where it was appropriate to use creative license and where it wasn't. She helped me kind of put together some ideas of different words that I could use just to make sure that we're being very respectful. And then, obviously, I then recorded all of those pronunciations she gave me for the audiobook narrator to make sure that they were getting it right. And I really hope we've done a good job with it. I'm so, so happy that we have Scots in there and we have Gaelic in there, and we have Scottish culture and Celtic mythology. This book really, like I said, it really feels like a homecoming. There's so much of Scotland in there.

[Carly]

I love that.

[Kinsey]

Were there any specific stories or elements from Scottish folklore that did find their way into a fate forged in fire?

[Hazel McBride]

Not necessarily Geology 1. So Geology 1 takes place in Chir cine, which means fire territory. Technically, if you were being completely correct, in Scottish Gaelic, you should say cir anchin, which means land of fire. But that's some of the creative license we used. We took out the an in the middle and just used Cheer Chinna. There's an old Scottish tale of the dragon Stoorworm, which I loved as a kid. So I think, you know, Scotland and dragons, that probably played a part. Obviously. There's so many stories of kelpies, you know, the water horses who would kidnap young kids. You know, my gran would be like, don't go play, like, on the banks of the loch, because the kelpie will come and get you. It's a story told to frighten kids and make sure they don't drown. You know, stay away from the water's edge or the water horse will come. My accent's coming out now. Sorry, guys. We love it.

[Hannah]

Please, no, please.

[Hazel McBride]

You know, or they'll come and get you. So I think when I was building the whole world of Erasocial, that's my accent. I'm like. I can't say. I'm like, world waddled. Which one do I choose? When you're thinking about the different elemental territories and thinking about what creatures are going where, you know, chirushka, which is water territory, you have kelpies and selkies. So there's going to be huge Scottish influence there as well. But, yeah, even in our book with the dragons and everything, yeah, it just feels like Scotland.

[Hannah]

I love how we're also getting information for book two out of this. So eager and so excited.

[Carly]

So sneaky.

[Kinsey]

I need to plan a trip to Scotland. That's what I need to do.

[Hannah]

It is top of my list. Incredible. It's so beautiful. So that just the way that you made this book so immersive and the visual I already have in my head of this very romanticized version of Scotland is just like perfection. We have to take a trip. It's a business trip, you know, for research purposes.

[Hazel McBride]

Research, yeah, exactly.

[Hannah]

So a fate forged in fire engages with themes like matriarchy, misogyny, and bi and queer identity. Topics we don't often see explored this openly in fantasy. What led you to center those themes in your story?

[Hazel McBride]

Well, having a bi, furious main character. I did not coin that phrase. I heard it from a friend and I was like, I am stealing that to describe Emira every time I can. I am bisexual myself, so I think in writing Emira, I was trying to write the character. I wish I could have read about when I was maybe, like, a young teenager or a young woman, you know, a female main character who is so unapologetic in her love for both women and men and, you know, doesn't really care what anyone else says about it or thinks about it. You know, especially growing up Catholic, I think I had a lot of, like, internal conflict around my own sexuality and maybe my own identity that took me a long time to figure out. And I don't know. If I had maybe read about a character like this, it would have helped me kind of own it a little bit earlier. So that's definitely where that aspect of Amira came from. And I think maybe growing up Catholic also influenced the way I tackle the patriarchal religion in it. I feel like everyone's relationship with God is very complex and very individual. I still identify as a Catholic, even though I definitely have my own conflicts about the church based on certain values. However, I think it's important that we need to address how patriarchal religion oppresses women. There's a reason that they continually preach subservience to women, because it does not come naturally to us. If it came naturally, we would not have to be reminded every Sunday in a pew that we need to be obedient and obey our husbands. So I think that's why I decided to write about a patriarchal religion overtaking the matriarchy, to kind of flip it on its head and maybe showcase how nonsensical it can be.

[Carly]

That leads in so nicely to my next question I have for you. You've shared before that creating a matriarchal world meant confronting some of your own internalized misogyny.

[Hazel McBride]

Oh, yeah.

[Carly]

Would you be open to tell us a bit about what that process looked like for you as a writer?

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah. It was so interesting, and it happened in, like, the weirdest of ways. Sometimes I feel like I'll probably talk about this a lot or use this example a lot, but I was writing a council scene, and I made every single person on the council a man without thinking about it. And I got to the end of the chapter, and I was like, wait, why is there not a single woman on this table? And I hadn't even thought about it. It was automatic. And that's when I was like, wait, I need to be more careful when I'm writing this. Because, yes, it's a crumbling matriarchy, so it's not the matriarchy at the height of its strength. So, okay, there's maybe not going to be every character is a woman, but there's at least going to be a mix. Come on. Of course there's going to be women at that table. So, yeah, there were a lot of different moments in it where I definitely had to think about my own worldviews and just the way I think as women, we are conditioned to believe a society should function. So, yeah, it was an interesting process, for sure.

[Hannah]

I'd like to express how important and meaningful your last few answers have been to these questions, specifically how represented and seen I felt as being by myself. And also with some church stuff put very lightly, this was that book for me that you were saying you wish you had, and I really appreciate it. And I'm gonna, like, move on to, like, stop.

[Hazel McBride]

You're gonna make me cry.

[Carly]

I don' Like, I understand what you're saying, Hannah. I really feel like this. The world needed this book now more than ever, and I'm just so glad that readers are going to have it, because I think that it gives you a lens to see the world through that like people need now, like, truly, in a way where it's like, okay, I'm not the only one seeing this. This isn't okay. This doesn't feel right. No wonder I feel like I want to burn it all down all the time. And maybe there is some hope.

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah, I think there was part of me that was maybe slightly worried when writing of being like, oh, God, is this too heavy? You know, are there too many deep topics going on? And one thing I will say is that nothing that is in the book is in it for no reason. You know, if there is violence, it's not gratuitous. It's not for shock value. It's there to tell the story, and it's there for a reason. So I think me and my editors, they absolutely understood that. And there were some moments that were taken out. There were some moments that were moved to book two so that we could have those really important moments of hope and levity and joy to really bring a balance. So, yeah, I hope that if any parts of the story make a reader uncomfortable, they can maybe sit with that and ask themselves why. I definitely think the element of religion, and especially Emira's view of the true religion in this, she's very blinkered. She only knows the true religion through what she sees. And I think potentially for some readers, they might find that very jarring, especially if, you know, they are Christian. They might see a lot of things that are familiar to them. And I would just encourage every reader to say, okay, if you feel uncomfortable with it. Sit with it and ask yourself, why. Why are you uncomfortable with this? Is it because you're being confronted by it? Is it because you're seeing something for the first time and you don't want to? So, yeah, I think it's important to be sad. And like I said, I'm still a practicing Catholic. I still have my own relationship with God, and I'm still a bisexual woman, even though I'm married to a man. You know, you don't. The world isn't black and white, and, you know, you shouldn't put yourself in a box ever. And I think it's okay to talk about these heavy topics and explore them.

[Hannah]

I felt that, and I received every single one of those aspects in a way that was super, super meaningful to me. So know that it. It landed 1000% with at least one reader.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hazel McBride]

Amazing. My job is done. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Hopefully many, many more, but definitely us.

[Kinsey]

I deeply resonated especially with the religious topics, too. And I was highlighting all these things because I think most women honestly can relate to being told to be submissive and all that.

[Hazel McBride]

And I think this might be verging into spoilery territory, so you guys can.

[Hannah]

Even put this up ahead.

[Hazel McBride]

But especially as we go forward into book two, you know, Emira's meeting more people as she goes along this journey. You know, even in book one, she starts to meet characters like Maggie and Elizabeth who are, you know, devout supporters of the true religion. And, you know, they've been brought up in a different society to her, and they begin to challenge her worldview. Even though in book one, she doesn't really listen, like, she hears them, but she doesn't really listen. Whereas in book two, she's changed as a person. She's gone through a lot, and she's being forced to confront a lot of different things, and she's ready to hear them now. So just because there are extremists, as we see in every facet of our society, there are extremists with regards to religion. There are also so many people who worship a certain deity or religion, you know, in my world and in our world, who are good people and, you know, those moments of joy and hope. Emira is going to find that in book two as well, through other people that she's going to meet.

[Hannah]

I'm really looking forward to experiencing that with her.

[Hazel McBride]

I'm so excited for book two. You might have to cut all of that out, but I was like, you know what? This is a good moment to chat about it.

[Hannah]

I've also heard that you drew inspiration from orca pods when envisioning the matriarchal structure in this book, which is such a fascinating connection. What drew you to orcas specifically and how did they help you shape your ideas of community and power dynamics?

[Hazel McBride]

Up until five years ago, I was working as a zookeeper, so I have had a lot of experience working with many different species.

[Hannah]

You're so cool.

[Hazel McBride]

Some of which were orcas, dolphins, sea lions, great apes and hoofstock. So obviously some amongst that list exist in matriarchal societies. And I learned a lot about the role of grandmothers. So if you look at certain species, like elephants, for example, they are one of the only species in the world, apart from dolphins, killer whales, great apes and us, who live well past their reproductive years. And it's only the females. Males don't live that long. So for a biological standpoint, there's no benefit to that. If you're not reproducing, what are you contributing? And it's wisdom. It's the survival of the species. They need a female to lead because she has birthed young and raised offspring and she knows how to keep them alive. So grandmothers are the most important part of elephant society, you know? Yes. The males are important because they can protect the hair. They're large, you know, they have their own part to play too. But the most important animal in that herd is the matriarch. So through looking at animal behavior like that, that is how I built my own matriarchy for humans, but also for the dragons. So, you know, having been able to build relationships with predators and large animals, you know, that's exactly like when you read about the bond between any of the characters and their dragons. It's exactly what it's like to be a zookeeper and work with exotic animals and build those same types of relationships that are based on mutual trust and respect.

[Hannah]

That is fascinating.

[Hazel McBride]

That's so cool.

[Carly]

I did not know you were a zookeeper. I'm still just like, wait, what? That is so cool.

[Hazel McBride]

I'm not the only zookeeper turned author. I don't know if you guys have heard of the book the Phoenix keeper by Sarah MacLean, also farmer, zookeeper turned author.

[Carly]

Sounds like we're going to have more books to add to our TBR by the end.

[Kinsey]

So interesting.

[Carly]

How did you go about building the magic system in the world? What was that creative process like for you?

[Hazel McBride]

That's a good question. I've always been obsessed with elemental magic, like the idea of being able to wield an element. And I think I knew from the get go that I wanted to involve mythical creatures in this story somehow and bonding to mythical creatures, obviously duology, one centres heavily around dragons. But there's going to be plenty of mythical creatures to explore in subsequent books. And then when I was building the world, I was like, okay, well I'm sectioning territories into different elements, so it makes sense that the creatures would exist in their respective territories. And what's the rule for being able to bond to them? Is it people who have power? Do people steal the power from the creatures or do people get the power from the goddesses? So that's what I went with. And then if you are blessed with power, you can bond to a creature. And the more powerful the creature, the more magic you can draw from. So magic feeds on energy. You only have a certain amount in your body. But if you have a really, really strong creature bond, you can also pull more magic from them. But there is consequences.

[Hannah]

I actually love how you tied your magic system into your matriarchal themes. Like the fact that it comes from the goddesses is just Chef's kiss satisfying.

[Kinsey]

Now, is there anything else you would like to share for readers who are considering A Fate Forged in Fire? Before. Before we move on to our spoiler.

[Hazel McBride]

Section, I would potentially say. I mean, I'm a huge advocate for understanding what you're getting. Yes, this is a romantasy book, but the romance isn't from page 10. It's a bit of a slow burn. So I've promised you guys enemies to lovers. I think I've delivered. There are multiple attempts on each other's lives, but yeah, there's a lot of tension and we do eventually get that payoff. But there's also a large fantasy political plotline running in the background too.

[Kinsey]

It's like the perfect mix.

[Hannah]

Yeah, which is why I knew you guys were gonna love it. It's like everything we love about the genre. It's now time for the spoiler filled portion of the interview, so you know what that means. Spoiler alert. If you haven't finished A Fate Forged in Fire, this is your official cue to skip ahead to the reader's letter section using the timest down in the show notes, we recommend saving the episode and coming back to hear the spoiler section once you've turned the final page. We'll be here waiting. If you're pausing here, you can find links down in the show notes to grab the book in print, ebook or audio. And as always, we highly encourage you to support your favorite indie bookstores. If you can don't worry, we fully support one more impulse buy. Starting off with the question, this is an easy one. Who was your favorite character to spend time with while writing?

[Hazel McBride]

I feel like I definitely spent the most time with Emira, but Maggie came out of left field. I'm a little bit of a pantser. Like, I don't always plot everything and, you know, she just ended up this gorgeous character and I'm just like, I just want to protect you. Like, she is so sweet. She is so sweet. And, you know, she has huge potential as well. And I can say we are going to see more of her in book two. Yay. Yay.

[Kinsey]

Can't wait.

[Hazel McBride]

I also have. I am a Draven apologist, by the way. Oh, interesting. That might be my daddy issues.

[Hannah]

You know what? No shame here.

[Carly]

Was there a scene that was especially fun or meaningful for you to write?

[Hazel McBride]

So my favourite scene in the whole book that I wrote is chapter 26 and it is when Fjorion is stitching Emira's wounds. It's such a. I don't want to say low key scene, but it's very emotional, it's very charged, but there's not a lot of action. He's literally just stitching her wound. But it's kind of the first time they're maybe a little bit vulnerable with each other and. Yeah, I'm just obsessed with that scene.

[Kinsey]

Me too.

[Hannah]

Yeah, me too.

[Kinsey]

We are huge fans of the touch her and die trope. So, like, that was everything for me at least. So with that scene with Fiorion ending up cutting the hand of that Laird, that was one of my absolute favorites. Did that moment come to you early in the writing process or did it just unfold naturally as Fioren's character developed?

[Hazel McBride]

Oh, no, for sure. That came early. As did the revenge on Ser Nairn.

[Kinsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Carly]

Thank you.

[Hazel McBride]

Those were very vivid images in my head of scenes. And I was like, oh, yeah, I can't wait to write those. It's like, yes, we gotta keep going forward so I can get to write them.

[Kinsey]

Thank you for that.

[Hannah]

Yeah, yeah. That's an understatement. How much we loved that part. Yeah. It's favorite across the board.

[Carly]

Yeah. I'm pretty sure there were some unhinged voice messages to Hannah after I read that scene.

[Hannah]

Yeah, those are my favorite. Yeah.

[Hazel McBride]

It was funny. At the influencer event, someone actually asked me to write Unhand my wife or lose it as the quote on their book.

[Hannah]

Oh, that's the one.

[Carly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

So we're going to request a Copy of the same for. Before we move into this next question, we want to give a quick content warning. This part of the conversation includes discussion of attempted forced sterilization. If you'd prefer to skip it, you can jump ahead to the timestamp listed in bold in the show notes.

[Carly]

So Amira experiences so much trauma in the story, from the loss of her family to the attempted forced sterilization. What was it like riding through such intense emotions with her as a character? I mean, you're kind of in her eyes all the time and you're going through that journey with her. I was wondering if you could share a little bit about that.

[Hazel McBride]

I think because I'm the one writing it, I'm in control and I'm in charge of how dark it gets. I don't feel too uncomfortable while writing it, as I imagine the reader might, because you guys don't know what's coming next. I do. So I think there's a slightly different perspective on that. I always know when writing it, Emira's gonna be okay. She's gon get her revenge. It's going to end. Readers don't. So I imagine it's a bit more intense for you guys. Reading was written with a lot of intentionality. There was in initial drafting, it was like she was just getting into a fight with Ser Nairn and some of the priests. And I was like, okay, something else has to happen here. And for a brief moment, I considered genuine sexual assault. And then I was like, okay, why am I gravitating towards that? Because I feel like, you know, we see it a lot in the fantasy genre as a way to, you know, forward a plot or something, you know, with regards to female main characters. And I was like, you know what? It doesn't fit. It doesn't feel right that that's what it would be. And then I thought, okay, let's really show how extreme these priests are and how far they're willing to go to stop magic from being passed down. Which is why it turned into that. There was definitely a lot of back and forth with myself and also with my editors on a line to line basis of, okay, what words are we using? How graphic do we really want this to be? I think it's pretty graphic. I think there's a lot of detail there on an emotional level and on a physical level. And I'm glad it was left in like that because I think if you're going to make the decision to write about something as traumatic as a forced sterilization, I'm not going to beat about the bush. Sorry. That was almost like an exact innuendo. But no, but yeah, you don't want to make light of it. I'm not wanting to just breeze past it. I'm like, no, we're going to sit in this moment and we're going to be with Emira through it and we're going to actually realize together. Oh, God. God. This is what people have been hinting at. And this has been Emira's biggest fear from the beginning. And now it's kind of being realized and it's like, okay, well, where is she gonna go from here?

[Carly]

Yeah, I definitely was holding my breath. I think that entire scene, I think I held my breath for like three pages.

[Kinsey]

I know I was holding my Kindle.

[Hannah]

Like, oh, no.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I'm really grateful to hear, like, how deeply you thought about it and especially your point about you reflected on why you defaulted to sa. I find that so meaningful because it is so commonly used in fantasy books. But sometimes it feels thrown in for the sake of just something like shock value, for sure. And so to hear how much intention and effort you put into what it's actually doing for the story and the overall message you're trying to send to people is really powerful and I really appreciate it.

[Kinsey]

Now, more light hearted topic. Which part of Emira's character do you personally resonate with the most?

[Hazel McBride]

I feel like we're bouncing between, like, let's get really deep in this.

[Hannah]

Okay, guys, let's balance this out.

[Hazel McBride]

Let's bring it back, back and forth.

[Kinsey]

It's like emotional whiplash here.

[Hazel McBride]

If anyone listening wants like an accurate representation of the book. There you go.

[Hannah]

It's well balanced.

[Hazel McBride]

Emira. I don't know. It's an interesting one. I don't feel like I'm anything like her. I feel like she's the person I wish I could be. She's so confident and so fearless and such a badass and yeah, I just wish I could go through life a bit more. I genuinely ask myself these days, I'm like, what would Ymira do if I'm like, oh, no, I need to call for a doctor's appointment. And I'm like, get a grip. What would he. Ymira would not be afraid of? I mean, maybe she would be afraid of the receptionists because they can be a little bit scary. But I wish I had more of her confidence.

[Kinsey]

Is there a character that you do feel like you resonate with the most?

[Hazel McBride]

It's so difficult because currently I'm drafting duology two. So not even Book two, but Duology two. There's a character there called Lucille who is riddled with anxiety, and I feel like I resonate so much with her because I'm like, yeah, girl, I get it. If I was dropped into a fantasy world, I would be her because she's terrified of everything. Like, I can relax, relate. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm just too close to the text and I'm like, there's not a single person I resonate with in book one. Maybe it's because I resonate with all of them on some level or another, because they all came from my brain, I suppose.

[Hannah]

I feel like that I'm not an author, but I would imagine that that is a very common experience, that you kind of write a little bit of yourself into every character, probably, or reverse. I'm sure they impact you.

[Hazel McBride]

They definitely guide the story. I'm not much of a plotter, so sometimes as I'm writing, characters almost take on a life of their own, and I'm like, oh, I didn't see it going this way. But, yeah, that makes sense.

[Hannah]

It's kind of like you get to experience it as a reader as well. Then.

[Hazel McBride]

When you get that flow and you're like, oh, okay, right, we're going to go with it, and, yeah, it ends up working out.

[Hannah]

Did that happen with any twists?

[Hazel McBride]

Yes, but a couple of them I can't tell you about because they're not in book one. Ooh.

[Kinsey]

So we'll have you back after book two.

[Carly]

Yes, yes, we'll definitely have to after that. I gotta know, that final twist serves as both a reveal and a cliffhanger. What went into writing that moment, and what emotions were you hoping to leave simmering with readers at the end?

[Hazel McBride]

So it's really interesting because in the first draft, I drafted it as one entire book, and then it was just too long, and everyone was like, this fits much better as a duology. And we were trying to figure out, where do we cut it? Where do we stop book one and then go ahead into book two? And, yeah, the betrayal just was such a delicious moment where we're like, hasn't Emira been through enough?

[Hannah]

Everyone's thoughts exactly.

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah. So, yeah, it was a nice moment. Yeah, that twist came to me very early on, like, that was always going to happen. I think there was a few early versions where it happened a bit earlier or a bit later. And then we found that sweet spot right in the middle of the battle, which I'm obsessed with. And another Twist. Actually, going back to your earlier question that came to me quite early was, again, spoiler. Major spoiler. Major spoiler. Tyreya being female. So I'm also a massive reader of this genre. I know readers are going to guess twists a mile off. So I was like, I'm going to throw them all a big red herring. So the minute I mention there's a mysteriously dead black dragon, everyone's going to be like, she's going to find it, she's going to bond to it. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, you're going to get that. But I'm like, but plot twist, she's female. So I don't know if everyone is going to be blindsided by that. I'm sure there's a few people who are like, there must be a female dragon out there. But I was like, I found it as a writer quite cool to be like, okay, everyone's going to think that the twist is finding this dragon, and then they're gonna be hit off the back of that with, oh, she's actually female.

[Hannah]

I was cheering, like, out loud at that reveal. I was like, let's fucking go.

[Carly]

Yeah, that scene was. I loved it. It was so great. The reveal was perfect.

[Hannah]

That might be my favorite moment of the book. Truth be told, I'm a fan girl for a love interest, but that scene was just so good, you know, it.

[Carly]

Was that and the ribbon of her being queen when she reveals herself as.

[Kinsey]

Queenside of the flames.

[Carly]

Yeah. Both of those scenes, for me were just, like, perfection. I was like, this is so good. You felt it in your whole body reading it.

[Hazel McBride]

That's so interesting to me as an author to hear what readers were surprised by and what moments they liked the most out of the book. So tell me more. I'm surprised.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, well, I mean, I actually think I loved the bonding the most, following by, like, you're losing your hand because you touched her. Obviously.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Hazel McBride]

Delicious.

[Kinsey]

Can we even call it a coronation? I don't think so, but just her walking through the flames. And I was like, wow, this is happening quick. I wasn't expecting this. And it's like, joke's on you. It's not really, but. But it was really cool, like, having her, like, walk through the flames. It was like, just there are tensions the whole time. And I was just, like, holding my breath. And I'm like, can we trust Fiore now? And I'm like, well, now I really like him. And, oh, maybe I shouldn't have liked him as much as I did.

[Hannah]

Those three scenes are my favorite as well. We usually have some variation between the three of us. That's like, maybe one different scene, at least in the mix. And so for us all three to say all three of those is, like, amazing. Pretty big.

[Hazel McBride]

But you guys also asked me about the hurt comfort scene was my favorite. I also love the harbor scene. Like Ymira and Fiorion's first real fight.

[Kinsey]

Mm.

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah, I'm obsessed with that.

[Kinsey]

That was good.

[Carly]

It was really good. When she, like, kicked his ass, I was like, yes, let's go.

[Kinsey]

Also, we cannot forget where she stabbed Ser Nairn when she finally got him. Oh, yeah, right in the crouch.

[Hannah]

That's also a top. And then you're about to mention this as well, but Erevor and Tyreya, that first interaction where he bowsed her, that was also a favorite movie. That was so good.

[Carly]

That was good.

[Hazel McBride]

That might have come from, like, animal behavior. Studying animal behavior and courtship rituals and hierarchy.

[Carly]

Oh, what did we just.

[Hannah]

What did we just do? What did you just say? Did you say courtship?

[Hazel McBride]

I hope my editors aren't listening.

[Hannah]

No, we didn't hear anything. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah, hierarchy. Hierarchy.

[Hannah]

Yep, yep, yep, yep. Well, I was gonna say that this interview has just turned into us fangirling over our favorite moments of this book, so I feel like that's pretty fitting for us, actually.

[Kinsey]

Yep.

[Hannah]

Though, on the other hand, theories are also quite fitting for us. So we have a couple of theory level questions. Feel free.

[Hazel McBride]

Okay. I'm, like, in edits for book two, so I'm sat for this. I'm like, yes, tell me.

[Hannah]

I'm not getting ahead of myself. But I will say that if you do need to pass on any of them because they fly too close to the book 2 Sun, feel free. It's only a couple of them, and we already kind of got to the first one, but. Kinsey, go ahead.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Well, I was wondering if Ervor and Tyreya are potentially mates, but probably no comment.

[Hazel McBride]

Well, I'll say no comment, but I'll also say, you know, dragon hierarchy is matriarchal, so Tureya is always in charge.

[Kinsey]

Nice.

[Hazel McBride]

So even if Fiarian and Emira aren't getting on, that doesn't have much weight with their dragons. Like, their dragons are still going to be dragoning.

[Kinsey]

Nice.

[Hannah]

Love to see that. I love to see that. So the blacksmith's death being the same week that Emyra's family arrived, was that meant to be suspicious or just complete coincidence?

[Hazel McBride]

From what we find out about Draven der cathian. Do you really think there's anything he won't do?

[Hannah]

No.

[Carly]

All right, fair enough. So at the end of the book, when Emira tells her brother that her magic is unstable and he starts to say something to her, his question or statement gets cut off. He says, but you meh. And then it's cut off of what he was going to say. She cuts him off. She's like, we're never going to speak about this. Essentially, she says something along those lines. Was he going to say, but you might be pregnant, but you missed your period? Are we supposed to suspect that Emira might think she's pregnant?

[Hazel McBride]

At the end of this book, Adarian is a healer. Obviously, he was also taught by Arla. And obviously in a matriarchy as well. Like menstrual cycles are not shameful. There's nothing to be embarrassed by. Blah, blah, blah. So there's a bigger reason why Emira might cut him off. I'm not the biggest fan of surprise pregnancy trope. Yes. And I also don't think. I think if Emira thought she was pregnant, she's more than capable of taking matters into her own hands. And I don't think she'd want to be pregnant in the middle of a war fair. But there was a reason why she cut him off. That's the only thing I said.

[Carly]

Maybe a bigger twist of why her magic's unstable.

[Hazel McBride]

Something far more important.

[Hannah]

Okay, I know that's right. Seen by that statement. Thank you.

[Kinsey]

I'm just like, hmm. I'm gonna overthink these answers later.

[Hannah]

Oh, for sure.

[Kinsey]

So you have mentioned earlier duology and book two. I know. We're most eager to know exactly how many books you do have have planned currently for the series.

[Hazel McBride]

If I give you the short answer, it's 11. But it's not a full series, so it's standalone duologies. So we have five territories in Ara Socia. There's going to be one standalone duology for each territory. So Ymira and Fioren's singular story will wrap up in book two. You guys don't have long to wait. Hopefully it'll be coming out next spring. Oh, let's hope. I don't have a publication date yet, but that's what I'm hoping for. Then the subsequent duologies will take place in other territories. There might be a little bit of crossover. We might see some familiar characters taking a visit here or there. And there is a big plot line running in the background. So if you do read from book one, all the Way through. You'll be able to connect all the dots. But readers can join Duology 3, Duology 4, and they won't feel confused.

[Kinsey]

So.

[Hazel McBride]

And I also want to write a prequel of Fire territory.

[Hannah]

Oh my gosh.

[Hazel McBride]

I know, I know. I have like the whole Hazel verse is up here waiting to be written.

[Hannah]

Hazel verse, okay. That's what my editor calls it.

[Hazel McBride]

That's not me being narcissistic. That's what my editor calls it. Because whenever we have a discussion about the books and I can't help but yapping about friggin Book eight or something, she's like, oh, here we go into the Hazel verse.

[Carly]

Yeah, no, I love it.

[Kinsey]

So. So the prequel would be about the last great Queen.

[Hazel McBride]

Not the last great Queen, because the last queen was Queen Irri a hundred years prior. But Queen Lysandrea fought in the 50 year war back when the matriarchy was huge. There were hundreds and hundreds of dragons and she was living at the height of her mother being queen. And yeah, I'd love to really write a book about the history of it and the matriarchy in its heyday and what that really looked like. And then across the backdrop of the 50 year war, when all four territories were fighting each other. I think that would be really fun.

[Hannah]

I have a couple follow up questions. I hope you don't mind, they're not playoffs.

[Hazel McBride]

No, no. I love talking about this.

[Hannah]

Okay, I'm gonna try to put them in order in my head because I'm so excited right now. So did you already have those planned out before you wrote book one?

[Hazel McBride]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Are there Easter eggs sprinkled in?

[Hazel McBride]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Fuck yeah.

[Hazel McBride]

The main character of Duology four is mentioned in book one.

[Kinsey]

Is it a member of her Queensguard?

[Hazel McBride]

I'm saying nothing.

[Hannah]

You're speaking our language like Easter eggs and theories and stuff. First of all, if we didn't already love this book, you just set us up to be hooked for at least 11 books. So we are dedicated book love.

[Carly]

Language liter.

[Hazel McBride]

Yeah, I mean, I just hope I get the opportunity to write them all. Obviously there's no guarantees ever in publishing, but yeah. I've been so blown away by the reception to book one. Thanks to early readers and everyone reading it and loving it and getting such a positive reaction from my publisher that it's looking likely that I will potentially get future contracts. Obviously I don't want to say anything and then not commit to it, but. But I really just want to be able to write all of these stories. They're in my brain now. They've got to come out. They've got to come out somehow. So it's nice to hear that people want them.

[Hannah]

Well, if your publisher is listening, we volunteer as tribute to champion these books because we loved it. I cannot wait for whatever you write next, truly.

[Hazel McBride]

Oh, thank you.

[Kinsey]

So I have a question about the duologies. Do you plan on it being chronological after the events of the first duology are finished, we're moving on to the next stage? Or does it take place simultaneously, just from a different point of view, in a different location?

[Hazel McBride]

They take place more or less chronologically. So Geology two is going to take place in Chir r, which is air territory. So we have Griffins and Pegasi, etc. And that story is going to pick up. I think it's six months after Duology one's story ends.

[Kinsey]

Okay.

[Hazel McBride]

But I will say I'm not actually contracted to write that duology yet. So let's all buy the book so that I can write.

[Kinsey]

All right.

[Hannah]

Do you have a series Bible that you use to track all this information? I know you mentioned that Hazel verse is in your mind, but have you, like, tried to.

[Hazel McBride]

I have a 150 page World Building document. I have the family trees of everyone going back 200 years. Like, I have dates of birth, dates of death, siblings, children, everything. Even the dates that dragons were hatched and which dragons mated with each other and which griffins mated with each other and everything.

[Hannah]

How much fun was that to write out outside of writing the book itself? That sounds like a fascinating project. And also, did you write that first before you wrote the book?

[Hazel McBride]

Yes. Yes. So I'm much more of a pantser than a plotter when it comes to the actual story. But I knew because I wanted to write so much with this, the world building had to be tight. And I couldn't be confusing my dates or my lore. So I was like, I need to at least write down what this world is and how it exists and who's in it. And that whole process, probably it was quite quick. I think it took like a month. But I was working on it religiously, like eight hours a day. I just went into my little cave and I was like, let's build a world. And then I started plotting the vague outline of each book, and then I started writing.

[Carly]

I'm obsessed. I'm gonna have to come wherever you live and look through the spider when the duology's finished. And, like, I got it. This is amazing.

[Hannah]

I've always wanted to ask an author if they. After they finish their Full series or whenever they prefer if they would ever consider releasing a guide to their world like that, like, where they repackage. And I'm just going on record by saying that, like, that would be a brilliant idea. And if your publisher is also listening to this part, please.

[Hazel McBride]

In 10 years, we're gonna clip that. We're gonna come back on with it and be like, guys.

[Kinsey]

We wanna know.

[Carly]

We will write a letter to your publisher and be like, please give us more.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Anytime you need us to do that, we got you. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hazel McBride]

Fantastic.

[Hannah]

And finally, what, if anything, can you share with us about book two, specifically in this duology?

[Hazel McBride]

Okay. Right. Keep it vague, Hazel. Don't give away anything else.

[Hannah]

Or not. You don't have to.

[Hazel McBride]

I'm so bad at secrets. The Ymira that we find in book two is very different to the Ymira that we find in book one. She's been through a lot, and she's going to need time to process that. And there are two new characters who are integral to helping her. One is. This isn't a spoiler. Like, I can definitely say this. The first character is the laird of the Phoenix clan called Rhea. And the second is the laird Ling, who's very charming and roguish of the Chimera clan. So we're getting more characters, but we're also getting more creatures.

[Kinsey]

That's what I'm excited for.

[Carly]

Yeah, bring on all the creatures. I love magical creatures.

[Hannah]

Hazel, thank you so much for joining us today. It has genuinely been a joy to get to explore the world of fateforged and fire with you. And you even dropped some reveals that I am going to be thinking about for months to come.

[Carly]

We'll be spiraling about this in the group chat for months.

[Hannah]

Absolutely.

[Hazel McBride]

Thank you guys so much for inviting me on. I've had the best time talking about this book with you guys. It's still so surreal to me that people have read it and care about it. And that's not me being falsely modest or anything. This is genuinely insane to me. So thank you. Everything you guys have said has absolutely made my day. And, yeah, I appreciate you guys so much.

[Carly]

We appreciate you. We absolutely loved hearing more about your writing process, your characters, the magic behind it all. Thank you for sharing your time and your heart with us.

[Kinsey]

Us. Yep.

[Hazel McBride]

You're so welcome.

[Hannah]

And for taking the time to write this book.

[Hazel McBride]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Like, so much work and effort goes into it. Thank you.

[Kinsey]

Now, before we let Hazel go, we're going to close with a little tradition. We are calling the reader's letter, a short appreciation letter to the author, shared only if, of course, our guests are comfortable with it.

[Hannah]

Dear Fantasy Author, thank you for forging a story with fire and fury in equal measure. You gave us ancient female power dragons and one hell of an enemies to lovers arc a world of magic and pulled us straight into the heart of it. You captured what it looks like when feminine power is feared, silenced, and stripped away, and what it means to keep surviving anyway. You gave us the space to feel the bite of injustice, the righteous fury of wanting to burn it all down, then had the audacity to make us swoon. And then you reminded us that we chose this life of heartbreak and cliffhangers because a story and a message like this is worth it. We're so grateful to have experienced this book early and to see these themes brought to life with such intention and depth. We cannot wait for the rest of the world to feel the fire you've lit. With love, your fantasy readers.

[Hazel McBride]

I'm like, and now I'm going to go and weep.

[Hannah]

I didn't mean to get emotional on you.

[Carly]

Dear Fantasy readers, a fate forged in fire is officially out in the world as of May 27, 2025, so if you haven't picked it up yet, now's the perfect time to dive in.

[Hannah]

You'll find links down in the show notes to grab the book in print, ebook, and audiobook formats. And as always, we recommend supporting your favorite indie bookstores if you can.

[Kinsey]

We've also linked Hazel's socials below so you can follow along and stay up to date on the series. Hazel, thank you again for chatting with us. We truly cannot wait to see what you write next.

[Hazel McBride]

Thank you guys so much.

[Hannah]

So excited.

[Carly]

That was so much fun. If this is your first time listening, welcome. And yes, we fully accept responsibility for your TBR growing. Here's a little more about us and what we do.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey.

[Carly]

I'm Carly.

[Hannah]

And I'm Hannah. Each season we dive deep into the stories, characters, and magic of the books we love most, whether that's through chapter breakdowns, specific topic, deep dives wild theory building, prepping for our most anticipated releases, or getting to interview amazing authors like Hazel.

[Kinsey]

Right now we're deep in the world of Onyx Storm, the newest installment of the Empyrean series, and we've got episodes packed with foreshadowing lore, breakdowns, Shadow Daddy, fangirling theories, and more.

[Carly]

You can access all of our episodes ad free a day early and in full video over on our Patreon Our Tier three Feather Tales. Get all of that, plus extras like my weekly Onyx Storm PDF annotations, shoutouts.

[Hannah]

And bonus resources, and exclusive access to our Dear Fantasy Reader Book Club. Every month our patrons vote on a Romantasy book outside the pod and we host a cozy livestream discussion on the last Wednesday of the month. It's a great way to read even more fantasy together and fangirl over new book boyfriends in real time.

[Kinsey]

You'll find our Patreon link in the show notes along with all the ways you can support the show, whether that's joining a tier, subscribing, leaving a review, or just sharing us with your fellow Romantasy readers.

[Hannah]

And if you're looking for more binge worthy content, check out our full deep dive on fourth Wing, including all of the things that Iron Flame changed, plus our Onyx Storm prep season, which is still packed with theories that could come into fruition in books four or five. We're about to wrap up our Onyx Storm Deep Dive season on the podcast and trust us, we've got so many exciting things in store for you all.

[Kinsey]

We'd love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, tag us on Instagram, or come fangirl with us over your favorite fantasy books in our free Discord Chat.

[Hannah]

Until next time, dearest Fantasy readers, may your chapters be spicy, your book boyfriends morally gray, and your TBR organized just enough to justify one more pre order.

[Kinsey]

That was so much fun.

[Hannah]

No, she was absolutely incredible.

[Carly]

Yeah, she was the sweetest. That was so much fun.

[Kinsey]

Such a great time. I'm like, ooh, Hazel, gonna think about that.

[Carly]

Yeah, thank you, Hazel.

[Hannah]

She had a couple reveals in there that I am.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Yep. They're gonna keep me up.

[Kinsey]

Gonna keep me up tonight. Thinking about that.

[Hannah]

Carly, if you wanna put like a piece of tape or something on your mat to show that. Cause that like spot right there for you is really solid.

[Carly]

Baby girl. My legs are against the desk. There's not really like a place to stand.

[Hannah]

Never mind. I love how you said baby girl. This is a petition, a formal petition for you to always call me that up.

[Carly]

Okay.

[Hannah]

Anyways, yeah, that's going to somehow end up in the. The bloopers. I just know. Okay.

[Carly]

I'm okay with that.