Jade Presley - The Never List | A Dear Fantasy Author Interview

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Jade Presley - The Never List | A Dear Fantasy Author Interview"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Dear Fantasy Reader
• Host/Author: Dear Fantasy Reader (Hosts: Hannah, Kinsey, and Karly)
• Description: A deep dive book club-style podcast focusing on the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yarros, featuring meticulous analysis, wild theories, and heartwarming fangirl moments.
• Episode: Jade Presley - The Never List | A Dear Fantasy Author Interview
• Release Date: July 24, 2025

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1. Introduction (00:33 - 01:22)

The episode begins with a brief ad break before the hosts—Hannah, Kinsey, and Carly—welcome listeners to a special author interview segment. They introduce their guest, Jade Presley, the author behind the popular Romantasy novel "The Never List".

Hannah:

"Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to our Dear Fantasy Author interview where we get to talk with the brilliant minds behind our favorite Romantasy novels."

---

2. Episode Structure (01:22 - 02:22)

The hosts outline the episode's structure, indicating a spoiler-free first half followed by a spoiler-heavy second half, concluding with bonus segments such as "Are You Smarter Than a Fangirl?" trivia and a reader's letter.

Kinsey:

"Due to the nature of this book, this podcast is rated R for content and language."

Carly:

"The first portion of this episode will be spoiler free, but we will be diving into spoiler spoilers in the second half..."

---

3. Author Background: Jade Presley (05:12 - 07:56)

Jade Presley reveals that she is a pen name for Molly E. Lee, who primarily writes for teenagers under her real name. The creation of the Jade Presley persona allowed her to explore the Romantasy genre without overlapping her existing teenage-focused works.

Jade Presley:

"Jade Presley is a pen name I created. So my real name, Molly E. Lee, I write for teenagers..."

She discusses her passion project inspired by Marvel characters, blending them with fantasy elements to create a unique Romantasy series that resonated with a broader audience.

---

4. Book Overview: "The Never List" (03:35 - 04:55)

Jade Presley succinctly describes "The Never List" as:

"...a spicy why choose with enemies-to-lovers vibes, forced proximity, faded mates, and four God princes who are ready to steal your heart" (03:35-03:52).

The novel serves as an engaging introduction to the "why choose" trope, combining romantic elements with intricate fantasy world-building.

---

5. Inspiration and Writing Process (04:55 - 09:23)

The inspiration for "The Never List" emerged serendipitously when a character named Riley demanded her story be told. Balancing this new project with her existing commitments, Jade Presley found a harmonious alignment between her creative vision and publishing opportunities.

Jade Presley:

"Riley was very loud and kind of came into me... she showed me the choosing event and she was very upset about being there."

She emphasizes the emotional depth of her characters, stating her favorite part of writing is immersing herself in their stories, even to the point of crying alongside them.

Jade Presley:

"I'm hurting with you. So I love that process, and it's just like, it's so consuming but fun."

Conversely, her least favorite aspect involves dealing with potential negative interactions within marketing spheres, although she remains optimistic about the supportive communities surrounding her work.

---

6. Character Development: The Four Legends (21:27 - 39:25)

"The Never List" features four distinct male characters, referred to as the Legends of Chaos:

1. Axel – The playful and carefree prince, easily the easiest to write.
2. Cal – The sweetheart with powers of light and super strength.
3. Jax – The complex and stubborn prince, challenging to portray authentically.
4. Pierce – Often seen as the "golden retriever" type, embodying warmth and reliability.

Jade Presley discusses the challenges and joys of crafting these characters, highlighting that each legend complements Riley, the female protagonist, in unique ways.

Jade Presley:

"Each one played to a different part of her most intimate desires... they all kind of came on their own."

She shares her struggles in writing Jax, who presents a more hardened exterior but harbors deeper vulnerabilities.

Jade Presley:

"Jax is the one that gives me the most trouble... he's just stubborn and has so many different self-worth issues."

Conversely, Axel proves to be a joy to write, with his outgoing personality and humor making his scenes more dynamic.

Jade Presley:

"Axel just will talk all day... it's so fitting of his personality because he just cares about the good times."

---

7. Themes: Consent and Empowerment (12:35 - 14:56)

A significant focus of the interview is on how "The Never List" integrates themes of consent and female empowerment. Jade Presley deliberately ensures that enthusiastic consent is depicted early in the narrative to create a safe and welcoming environment for new readers of the "why choose" trope.

Jade Presley:

"I wanted to make sure that, like, enthusiastic consent was within the first 10 pages."

She underscores the importance of portraying consent as a default setting, aligning with contemporary discussions on healthy relationships.

---

8. Magic System and World Building (15:21 - 34:48)

The creation of a cohesive magic system is deeply intertwined with character personalities and the novel's world-building. Each legend's powers reflect their intrinsic characteristics, enhancing their roles within the story.

Jade Presley:

"Riley came to me with her power already... the guys' power ended up fitting their personality."

The world of Lumetus is crafted with gem-themed cities inspired by real-world locations, adding a vibrant and visually appealing layer to the fantasy setting.

Jade Presley:

"The ruby air definitely gave me those Parisian vibes... the Emerald Wood, like London if it was cottage core."

She hints at further exploration of Lumetus and its neighboring realms in the sequel, promising deeper dives into the magical and political intricacies of her created world.

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9. Sequel Plans: Book Two and Beyond (42:02 - 48:05)

Jade Presley reveals that the upcoming sequel will amplify the stakes and expand the magic system. The second installment is expected to delve deeper into the history of Lumetus and explore additional realms, enhancing the overall narrative complexity.

Jade Presley:

"Sequels are so much fun because you have those characters established... there will be a ton more world building in book two."

She expresses excitement about weaving new elements into the story, ensuring that the sequel offers both continuity and fresh developments for readers.

---

10. "Are You Smarter Than a Fangirl?" Trivia Segment (54:03 - 64:22)

In a playful bonus segment, the host Kinsey conducts a rapid-fire trivia game with Jade Presley, challenging her knowledge of "The Never List." The game poses 25 detailed questions covering characters, plot points, and specific elements from the book.

Notable Highlights:

• Jade Presley showcased her extensive knowledge, although some questions were intentionally tricky.
• Hannah, acting as the fangirl contestant, struggled with several detailed questions, illustrating the depth and intricacy of the book's lore.

Kinsey:

"Will the author triumph? Will Hannah crumble under pressure? There's only one way to find out."

The segment concluded with respectful humor and appreciation for the challenging nature of the questions.

---

11. Reader's Letter and Appreciation (64:22 - 67:55)

The episode concludes with the traditional Reader's Letter segment, where listeners express their gratitude and admiration for Jade Presley’s work.

Hannah’s Letter:

"Dearest Fantasy Author, thank you for seeing us, the readers who have never been able to pick just one book boyfriend... With hearts full and expectations ruined, your fantasy readers."

Jade Presley:

"Aw. Well, thank you so much. Literally means the world to me."

The hosts reciprocate the appreciation, emphasizing the community and camaraderie fostered through the podcast and the book.

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12. Conclusion and Future Content (67:55 - End)

As the episode wraps up, the hosts encourage listeners to follow their social media for upcoming interviews, join their book club, and support the podcast through Patreon. They reiterate their excitement for future content and express heartfelt thanks to Jade Presley for her time.

Hannah:

"Until next time, dearest fantasy readers, May your chapters be spicy, your book boyfriend's morally gray, and your TBR organized just enough to justify one more pre-order."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• 02:22 - 02:27:

  Hannah: "I'm gonna need you to send us an example of what you're talking about because it sounds like it's right up our alley."

• 07:56 - 08:06:

  Hannah: "What is your favorite and if you would like to share, least favorite part of the writing process?"

• 12:35 - 13:13:

  Hannah: "The themes and the way that you engaged with the concept of consent in this book was a big thing..."

• 43:14 - 43:33:

  Hannah: "Do the other kingdoms have magic or their own goddesses?"

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Dear Fantasy Reader" offers an insightful and comprehensive look into Jade Presley's creative process, character development, and the intricate world of "The Never List." Through engaging discussions and interactive segments, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the nuances of Romantasy storytelling and the thoughtful integration of themes like consent and empowerment. The hosts' enthusiastic approach and the author's openness create a vibrant and welcoming atmosphere for fantasy enthusiasts eager to explore the depths of their favorite genres.

Transcript

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[Hannah]

Dearest Fantasy Readers, welcome to our Dear Fantasy Author interview where we get to talk with the brilliant minds behind our favorite Romantasy novels. I'm Hannah.

[Kinsey]

I'm Kinsey.

[Carly]

And I'm Carly.

[Hannah]

Today we're chatting with Jade Presley, author of the Stevie why Choose Romantasy? The Never List.

[Carly]

The first portion of this episode will be spoiler free, but we will be diving into spoiler spoilers in the second half before our bonus segments. Are youe Smarter Than a Fangirl? Trivia and the Reader's Letter to Close. You can find the timestamps for each section down in the show notes.

[Kinsey]

Due to the nature of this book, this podcast is rated R for content and language. If you'd like to watch the full video version of this episode, it's available now on Patreon and we've dropped that link in the show notes as well.

[Hannah]

Jade, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

[Hannah]

We are so excited that you are here, that you're taking time out of all this traveling and the tour you've been on. For this book to take time for us is an honor. We really appreciate it.

[Carly]

I know. Thank you so much. We're so excited.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, of course. I'm so happy to be here.

[Hannah]

We're gonna start out with an icebreaker. We are huge Romantasy fangirls here. What's one thing, book related or not, that you are an unashamed fangirl of no wrong answers.

[Jade Presley]

Oh my gosh. I love this question. I am a complete nerd, so I am totally unashamed to say that, like I will do these epic quest board games like deck building games that are like sometimes considered super nerdy, but I love the stories in them and the world building in them and I feel like it makes me a stronger writer, honestly. So I'm totally Unashamed to say that I'm like obsessed with those kind of fun escapes.

[Hannah]

I'm gonna need you to send us an example of what you're talking about because it sounds like it's right up our alley.

[Carly]

Yeah, we'd love some recommendations.

[Jade Presley]

Oh yeah, it's amazing. So I just finished Frosthaven. I don't know if you guys have heard of that. It's like, like it's so many boxes, it's so much cardboard. But it is just like it's gorgeous. Even like the artwork on these epic deck building games are just stunning. And I feel like it's just such a fun, almost like bookish adjacent type of activity that like I can play and I don't feel like I'm at work or anything, but I am still getting this wonderful, enriching storytelling experience and so. And then you get to be a part of it and it's just so much fun.

[Hannah]

So yeah, I actually this might be my favorite question that we ask because I feel like we get to find out more about who you are. I mean we're going to do that as we learn about your book. But like that question prompts so many unique answers and I love to see it.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, it does. It's a great question.

[Carly]

We get some great like cool things that inspiration. I'm like, oh yeah, I'm gonna, gonna go give that a try now.

[Hannah]

That's my, that's my next hyper fixation inspiration everywhere.

[Jade Presley]

Yep.

[Kinsey]

Right now, if you had to sum up the Never list for a brand new reader, what would you say?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, this is always so hard. I would say the never list is a spicy why choose with enemies to lovers, vibes, forced proximity, faded mates and four God princes who are ready to steal your heart.

[Hannah]

And they will.

[Jade Presley]

Yes.

[Carly]

And did what inspired you to write the Never List?

[Jade Presley]

Well, I was really lucky because it like things happened serendipitously. Like Riley was very loud and kind of came into me that's. I'm a very character driven writer. And so she kind of kicked in the door. I was just finishing up a project so of course it wasn't done and I was on deadline and another story was coming in. That's always how it goes. But she kicked in the door. She showed me the choosing event and she was very upset about being there. She found it very unjust and she was like, my story needs to be told. And it turned out that I was up for a new project with my publishing house and I was like, well, I have this story. And they were looking for something romantic, but like super spicy. And so it kind of just worked out because, you know, I write why Choose Independently under this name. And so it really just. Everything kind of aligned and they liked Riley's idea, Riley's story, and it was just exploded from there.

[Hannah]

I have to pause and ask you to tell us about your other why Choose? Because Kinsey told me the other day as we were looking you up, we were preparing that you had others. And I was like, no way. So if you don't mind pivoting just a little to tell us a little bit about your other books.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, no, absolutely. I love talking about it. So Jade Presley is a pen name I created. So my real name, Molly E. Lee, I write for teenagers. And so I just had this wild idea one day I was going to do a passion project just for me. I'm a Marvel nerd. I was getting into why she was the genre and I was like, ooh, wouldn't it be fun to have like, Thor and Loki and, you know, Captain America and Iron man all at once?

[Hannah]

Crossed my mind.

[Jade Presley]

And so I was like, why not? It could be fun. And I didn't know if there was going to be an audience for it. I didn't know if there was going to be other spicy, nerdy girls like me. But there was, and it was really awesome. But I made the pen name to make sure my teenagers didn't like, one click into a White Shoes on accident. I just didn't want those emails. I didn't want that responsibility. So I made this pen name and I put this book out there, not knowing if there were any readers out there who were going to jive with it. And they did, and it was wonderful. And it kind of just rolled on from there. So it was really, it was really awesome to find that audience for sure.

[Hannah]

So your other why Chus aren't romantasy, but they're. They're not mcu. So that's what you. You're saying you were inspired by your other why Chus, but to integrate that with the fantasy elements.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah. So it is. It is romantasy. It can be considered romantasy. It's just a little lighter on the world building. And it's not fan fiction. It's just like I was really inspired by those characters. And I was like, what if? And so I kind of created a whole world around that what if idea. And it's a complete series. There's four, I like to say four and a half books, because I did, like, just a pure fun novella in the middle, but, yeah, in that world. Expands and everything. But they are, like, quicker reads. Whereas for the Never List, with my traditional publisher, they were like, no, this is going to be a thick girl. And I'm like, okay, we can do this. And so she's very thick compared to my others. But I love them both for so many different reasons. And I think they both hit a lot of those Romantasy notes.

[Hannah]

So they just got put at the very top of my TBR as you were talking. Actively stacked. Because I finished the Never list and have been searching for a wide choose Romantasy that hits the same for me, and I have not been able to find it. And I was going to ask what your recommendations were, and I'm as over the moon to hear that you wrote the other ones, because I just know I'm going to love them. So we'll also link those down in the show notes as well once this episode releases for everyone else to be able to find them. I am so stoked about that.

[Jade Presley]

Thank you so much. Yeah, I love them and I'm so happy that, like, I just did that passion project because this has been so much fun to just fall into this genre. And if I had never done that, I wouldn't have found so many this awesome community of, like, spicy girls. So I just love it.

[Hannah]

Spicy girls.

[Jade Presley]

Love to hear that. Yes.

[Hannah]

What is your favorite and if you would like to share, least favorite part of the writing process?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, man. My favorite is the characters and getting just so lost in their stories. Almost like it's like I'm separate. Like, I'm seeing it through them. It's like this crazy experience that happens when I get really deep into it. And so, yeah, I'm always. I'm always really highly invested in my characters. Like, they are living, breathing people. And so it. It's funny because some people will be like, do you feel bad at all when you hurt your characters? And I'm like, yeah, no, I'm seriously crying at the keyboard with you guys. Like, I promise, like, it's not. It's not like, oh, what can I do today to hurt me? I'm, like, hurting with you. So I love that process, and it's just like, it's so consuming but fun. The thing I like least, that's a really tough question because I really do enjoy. I've. I've wanted to be an author since I was, like, a kid. So, like, I really feel like every day I get to go to work and be this, you know, just live this dream So I guess maybe like some of the marketing like there's, there can be like some kind of like toxicity on certain sides of Booktok, I guess. But mainly I feel like I'm on the good side. So I never, I don't see it a lot but I like, I'll see it on threads and I'm like whoa, how did I miss that? And I guess my feed is just really positive. So I guess that sometimes I feel like scared of that side of it. But other than that I, I have a really great time. So.

[Hannah]

Glad to hear that. Actually it can be, it can be a scary place, but sometimes you find your, your people and that's actually how we all met. We are remote so it can be really, really beneficial. But yeah, there's some spots that are.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, yeah, they just get a little nerve wracking. So I'm like, I'm gonna moonwalk over here with this community that's like, I'm just so in love with and like they just lift people up and I'm like, let's just stay on this side of it and make it worth it.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah. Cause otherwise I'm like, oh my gosh, what if that happened? It's just like you can go down a really dark rabbit hole of just fear of not wanting to just get on the wrong side of things.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. Well, thankfully you're on the good side. And it's also good to hear that you also are crying at the keyboard because that's something I've always wondered. Are authors crying too? Because I get distraught when I read. But kind of changing topics here.

[Jade Presley]

Why a.

[Kinsey]

Why choose? Is it your favorite trope or just the perfect fit for your story?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, it just kind of like became this perfect fantasy. I started reading it, I was consumed. Like I accidentally read one by Katie Robert who I love. She's just like a one click author. And I didn't know Court of the Vampire Queen was a white choose. And then I was like, whoa, we can do this. I was like, this is amazing. And then I just kind of got you know, obsessed and I read like Nikki St. Crow. Her the Never King series is amazing. And so I just, I, I just was like, well why not? Like it's, it was just so empowering for the female lead. I felt like too which I've always been drawn to and just like it's all focused on her and I'm just like that's such a fun, refreshing twist and like to have like the perfect set of characters that can like satisfy all these different needs in you. And just like, it just felt like the ultimate fantasy to me. And then combining that with the actual fantasy genre was just like, this just makes sense. And it was just like, pure fun.

[Hannah]

Well, that actually brings me to what I was gonna ask you next. We love that you gave us four. That felt intentional. Did you always know it would be four?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, so I did, because I. I start with my character sketches, so I don't even. I don't plot until I really know my characters. And Riley came to me first, and then the guys came slowly after I really knew her. And it was like. And it was almost like each one played to a different part of her most intimate desires. And like, they each were gonna, like, challenge her in different ways and lift her up in different ways. And so they all kind of came on their own. And so, yeah, I get to know them really well. And then after I spend a lot of time with them and, like, know their voices, then I start plotting the book. And it doesn't. It's not always for like, my first independent series was four, just because that was natural. And then I have another book that I released after that, before the never list, that's like, it's kind of like Witcher meets True Blood. And there were only three. There were only three that came to me. There were only three that made sense in that story. So it really does. I think it all depends on the female character and, like, what she needs, which again, goes right back to that female centered empowerment that I love about the genre. So. But Riley, she had four immediately, and so it was great.

[Hannah]

I'm actually going to add in a question we didn't have prepped, but I wanted to acknowledge this, and I think it does fit here. The themes and the way that you engaged with the concept of consent in this book was a big thing that all of us, we had this book as our book club pick for. Was that May? May, like, what month am I in? And that was so huge for all of us. And so to hear you talk about Riley's needs, like, I guess I just want to hear, like, what your thoughts were in that process of writing this. Why choose in such a conscious way? Engaging with consent?

[Jade Presley]

Absolutely. It was very intentional. And normally I don't sit down with, like, an intention or an agenda or whatever, but with the consent factor in this book, because it was going to be traditionally published, I knew Red Tower. They had told me in the beginning, like, hey, this is going to be on target shelves and there's going to be different Access to it versus, like, finding it in ku, you know, which it is in ku. But there was going to be more accidental, like, finding of this book by readers who might not try. Why choose? Or have never read a white choose before? And so I definitely wanted it to be, like, the safe space for new readers to the genre. Like, because I know it can sound very overwhelming and scary. Four guys, one girl. It can sound really intimidating. But. So that's why I wanted to make sure that, like, enthusiastic consent was on the, like, within the first 10 pages. I wanted them to know that, like, okay, this is going to be fine. She's going to be in control. And while there's going to be exterior, you know, stakes and problems and challenges, like, within this little group, it's always going to be, like, her choice. And even Riley's character is surprised by this. And it is unfortunate in this day and age that we still have to, like, put consent that front and center when it's, like, it should just be a default setting. Like, if it's not a hell yes, it should. You know, it's a hell no. But, yeah, that was very intentional. I wanted any new readers to feel very safe and like, oh, this is fine. This is acceptable. This world is literally built around it, and I can go and just have a good time in this fantasy. And so that. That was very intentional for me. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Well, it was my first why tos, and I felt very safe and very comfortable throughout. Like, it was. The spice was spicy. It was great.

[Jade Presley]

Yay. That means the world to me.

[Hannah]

I clocked her consent in the first 10 pages that moment, and I was so, like, squealing. Cause I was like, this. This is what I want to hear. And then also how devotional they are. But I will. I will wait before getting into that. I will wait.

[Carly]

All right, Hannah, keep it inside.

[Jade Presley]

No, I love it.

[Hannah]

How.

[Carly]

How did you go about building the magic system for this world? What was that creative process like for you?

[Jade Presley]

It was super fun. I love fantasy, and I think that, like, if you're gonna do a, why choose? Just the fantasy aspect is so much fun. Cause you have all these powers to play with. And so, yeah, I, I. Riley came to me with her power already. And then the guys, it took a little bit longer to see kind of, like, what their vibe was, and it almost kind of their power and their magic ended up kind of fitting their personality. And so that was super fun to play with. When I was developing their character profiles and everything, and the fact that they're part gods, it's like the sky is the limit. So it really was about like, okay, getting the actual personality of these princes and then like, what power complements that most and what one's going to be the most fun to play with, honestly. And so I kind of just started from there and then just kept building on top of it.

[Kinsey]

What spice level would you rate the never list? And how spicy can we expect the next book to be?

[Jade Presley]

This is such a fun question because I, it's so great. I love readers so much because they'll some, some will come to me and they'll be like, this was a one pepper for me and other readers will be like, this is a five pepper. And so for me, I felt we were between like a 3.5 and 4 pepper in the never list. But again, some people are like, no, this is a one. This was just a sweet little, you know, why'd you.

[Hannah]

Intrigued by what they're reading?

[Jade Presley]

I know, I love it. So it's like, I think it depends on the reader, but I will say the sequel, we're gonna go up a pepper. Probably like a gold pepper.

[Hannah]

I can't wait.

[Jade Presley]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Speaking of your readers and feedback, we saw a reel where you were quote unquote collecting reader notes or like their feedback for what they want for book two. So I'm wondering if you could actually share any of those for us.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, absolutely. I've gotten a lot of different requests for book two. I think the most overall is like more. More group scenes. Yeah. Yes. And so I'm totally ignoring that. No, I'm kidding. No, I think that the sequel is going to be so much fun. It has been so much fun. I'm in the middle of it now because they're already. The relationship is. They've reached that, that point, you know, like they're, they're trusting each other and whereas book one, you're like building that trust. And Riley is definitely skeptical because, you know, I mean, her upbringing and everything. So I'm just so excited because, yeah, there's going to be more opportunity for that. But we had to get there in the first book, you know, and that didn't happen till the end, so.

[Hannah]

Loved when it did. But I also love the journey of getting fair. But again, I'm. I'm intentionally being vague before we get to our spoiler section. Right.

[Jade Presley]

Okay. Right. Okay.

[Carly]

Can I ask one little unscheduled follow up question to that? I am wondering, do you feel like why choose is just more fun to write in general?

[Jade Presley]

I honestly do. So I've Written both and I do love both and I read both. So, like, I do love that, you know, monogamous relationship where it's like ride or die, but it's just so much fun to have more. To me, I just feel like it's also very challenging as. As for me as a writer to be able to balance all these different character dynamics and arcs and somehow make sure that they fit together. And there's no, like, masculine toxicity. There's no jealousy or, you know, there's like, fun possessiveness, but no, like, red flag possessiveness.

[Hannah]

And you balanced that so well.

[Jade Presley]

Thank you. Yeah, so I do love it. It's so much fun. It's just more. The more the merrier to me.

[Carly]

I love that it's fun.

[Hannah]

Fully agree. It was way more fun.

[Jade Presley]

Thank you.

[Carly]

Is there anything else you'd like to share for readers who are considering reading the Never List before we head into spoiler territory?

[Jade Presley]

Just thank you for putting it on your list and giving it a chance. Because I have seen that where a lot of some of the readers were like, I was just so scared to read a white choose, I didn't think it was for me. And then they read it and they were like, now I want to read more. And that just means the absolute world to me. So thank you for that. Aw. Well.

[Hannah]

And thank you. It was my first why Choose? I don't like a love triangle, so I kind of felt like I was inclined to enjoy a why choose, but I was unprepared for by how much. And I also feel like we got a lot of feedback when we had it as our book club pick from people who were like, I never would have picked it up, but I'm so glad I did. But I think it's like the perfect introductory. So it's interesting that you were saying, like, you were considerate of it being like an introductory to why Choose? And I really, like, genuinely feel like it was the perfect little tester for why Choose.

[Jade Presley]

Thank you so much. That literally means everything to me because that's what I wanted. I just wanted readers to be able to feel safe and like, let's go on this journey together and like, just. Yeah. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Well, here we go. It is time for the spoiler filled portion of the interview. So if you haven't finished the Never list, this is your official cue to skip ahead to the reader's letter section. Using the timestamps in the show notes, we recommend saving the episode and coming back to hear the spoiler section once you've turned the final page. We'll be here waiting. If you are pausing here, you can find links down in the Show Notes to grab the book in print, ebook or audio. It's incredible. And as always, we highly encourage you to support your favorite indie bookstores if you you can. Don't worry, we fully support one more impulse buy. We've also linked Jade's socials down in the show notes as well. And we collaborated with Jade on a key Characters, Places and Terms guide, which is so cute. That you can find on both of our Instagrams, which you'll also find the link to down in our Show Notes. Here we go. I'm so excited for this section. You'll probably get several unplanned questions through this as well. Because you've already have my mind swirling from this spoiler free section. We're gonna start with who was your favorite character to spend time with while writing?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, that's such a hard question. They're all so distinctively different. But Riley, she was so loud and it was really her story, so I think I feel the closest to her. Even though I love jumping into the male point of views, I just feel like she's just got such a voice on her and so I love spending time with her.

[Carly]

Was she the character for you that was easier to write?

[Jade Presley]

Yes, definitely. Because like I said, she kicked in the door and was like, this is my story. I'm super mad about it. Like I don't want to be here and I'm here and now I'm like chosen and it was a whole thing. So yeah, she's definitely easier to write. I can slip into her way easier than I can the guys. Some of them are easy. Some of them are really hard to get their voice out.

[Carly]

So is there one that's particularly hard to write in their voice?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, Jax is the one that gives me the most trouble and it totally fits his personality because he's just stubborn and like he's so complex and he's got so many different like self worth issues and like sometimes I'm just like, just be happy and do this. But that's not natural, that's not authentic. So we just, we give him time and then he'll talk to me when he wants to. So sometimes I've had to like skip his chapter because he just will not talk to me. And then I come back when he's like, okay, I'll comment on this.

[Hannah]

Now that's really intriguing because we get more POV from him. So what does that process? I would have assumed he was Easier.

[Jade Presley]

For you to write, gave me the most trouble. It's just that he. I think most of his POVs, they had so much more at stake and so much more to lose. And so I'm like, they need to be in here. But it was hard for him to be like, okay, I'll let you in a little bit and show you this, what I'm thinking and my thought process and things. And so that's why some POVs that are crucial for Jax are actually in other people's POVs, too. And so, yeah, he's definitely. He's doing a lot better in the sequel, which is great. He's opened up to me a little bit more. And I know this sounds crazy, cause, like, I created him, but it's really how they operate. I don't know. It's how I've always written, and so. But he is talking to me more now. He's. He's got a lot to say now, which is great.

[Hannah]

Is there a legend you mentioned some were easier than others? Is there one that was more, like. Came to you a little bit more easily?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah. Axel, man, he's my boy. Like, he just will talk all day. Like, it's so funny. He's. I just finished a scene with him. Him, and I just had the best time. It's so fitting of his personality because, like, all he cares about is the good times. So he comes to me super, super easy, and it is almost like a fun, like, safe chapter to go into, because I'm like, oh, we're gonna have a good time. It's not gonna be that serious with him. Whereas some of the others, it's like, oh, man, we're gonna hurt in a minute, so. Oh.

[Hannah]

Oh, no. I was gonna say, you have a lot of Axel girlies here. I am also a cow girly. Oh, my gosh. But I'm like, now I'm nervous that they're gonna. But you mean by hurt. It's fine.

[Jade Presley]

It's fine. Well, I think Jax is always on the verge of breaking my heart, because the more I get into his backstory and the more I learn about him, he's just. He's been through it in a way that he never shows people. And so that's what I mean by getting hurt. Like. Yeah.

[Hannah]

So you're telling me Cal might be a little safe? We just have to brace ourselves for Jax.

[Jade Presley]

Okay. That's. He's a cinnamon roll. Cal is just. He's the best.

[Hannah]

I love it. I love it so much. Was there a scene that was Especially fun or meaningful for you to write.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, my gosh. I had so much fun. I think the choosing scene was so much fun to write at the beginning because that is the scene she kind of came to me with and, like, showed me this beautiful visual of, like, this. Like, this party that you would think everybody would want to go to. Like, it's fun. You're in masks, and, like, there's tons of food, and you're at the beautiful setting in the sky. But then it's like, actually, you don't. Like, she doesn't want to be there. It's the last place she wants to be. She's. She hates the elite. She hates the wealthy, and she has very good reasons for that. But then it's like, well, why are you there? And so that was such a fun scene to write because it was so visceral.

[Hannah]

When she showed me, it was the perfect hook. It's rare for me to be hooked at the beginning of a book. And you nailed it. I'm like, everything. I'm like, you. I normally don't like stuff like this, but, like. Or like things. And you just, for me, were the perfect book.

[Jade Presley]

Anyways, thank you so much.

[Hannah]

I'm, like, genuinely fangirling and flustered over here.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, my gosh. I love you. You're great. I appreciate you so much.

[Carly]

I also love that it just, like, it jumps right into it. And I'm like, yes. Like, let's go. We're not messing around.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, gosh. Thank you.

[Kinsey]

Now, what's one line or scene you wouldn't want your family to read?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, God.

[Hannah]

She's like, how do I pick one?

[Jade Presley]

How do I pick one? Well, it's funny because I am pretty comfortable with everything that I do, but I guess, like, I wouldn't want to be in the same room, like, as they're listening or reading. I would probably say chapter 25, when it's the first time with Axel, Cal, and Riley. I feel like that one's pretty much like, okay, we're in it now. Like, this is really. Like, this is escalating. And so I wouldn't want to be in the same room while they're listening to that. That I guess. But I'm very. Like, my family knows what I write. Like, there's nothing hidden there. Like, that's what's funny. It is a pen name, but that's mainly so those teenagers don't find it.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Jade Presley]

But, yeah, I definitely wouldn't want to be in the room, like, when they're listening to that one.

[Kinsey]

I've definitely seen, like, other authors. Their parents are like, can I have a copy of your book? And they, like, Sharpie out, like, all the spicy. And so I was like, I wonder if she feels the same way.

[Jade Presley]

I'd be Sharpieing for days. Like, it would. It wouldn't be.

[Kinsey]

It'd be, like, half the book at that point.

[Jade Presley]

It would be. It would be.

[Carly]

We love the Legends, so we'd love to hear more about, like, what inspired each of them. Did any of them kind of, like, I don't know, surprise you or take any twists as they came to life?

[Jade Presley]

Surprised me. Well, I. So that's the thing. I spend so much time with them in the beginning that there wasn't a ton of surprises. They definitely can be, like, no, we're gonna go this direction, like, after I've already plotted everything. So they have that. But no, I. I spend so much time with them that I. And I put them in these scenarios to see, like, how they're going to react and, like, what, you know, kind of voice and demeanor they have. So I think the only thing surprising maybe, would have been that, like, Jax is. He's not, like, the biggest asshole on the planet. Like, he just presents that. And especially as we go into book two, I'm starting to learn that there's so much more to him and there's such a softer side. So I think that might be a little surprising, especially with what he gives off.

[Carly]

So do you have, like, a. A soft spot for one of them?

[Hannah]

And is it Jack's?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, I. It's so hard. I keep getting asked, like, who's my favorite? I cannot pick a favorite because I feel like they just go with, like, whatever mood you're in or whatever you need. Like, there's one for that, you know? So it is hard, but I don't know. It's so hard to choose, like, who I would have a soft spot for. I. I can definitely tell you which city I'd love to be in, which is the Emerald. The Emerald Wood is, like, my vibe. Like, I would. That's where I'd love to be. But it doesn't mean Pierce is my favorite, although I do love Pierce. It's hard. It's a hard choice. I like to hear other people's favorites.

[Hannah]

Well, I mean, the point is not to choose, right? Yeah. So you're safe. No pressure. But it is interesting that for book club, we kind of got to this point where we did, like, a. Build a book boyfriend out of the four, and we were like, if you had to pick a city to live in, which would it be? If you had to pick one of the legends, which would it be? If you had to pick one of the powers for you to have, what would it be? If you had to pick one of the guys to have a different power, what would it be? And so we each made our Build a Book boyfriend.

[Jade Presley]

I love that. That's awesome. That was fun. That is like a fun game. I love that. That's awesome.

[Kinsey]

Speaking of boyfriends, are our boyfriends going to be boyfriends?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, I've been asked this question a lot. I've actually had people demand it, which is wonderful. And I basically. How can I explain it? I'm just the vessel. Like, they are in control. It's their choice.

[Hannah]

And so to be determined.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, basically, it hasn't come up yet. That's the thing. Like, I'm just in it, and it hasn't come up yet. And so in some. In my independent series, there is that kind of crossover in the one where they're not brothers, obviously. And so, yeah, I just. I. I just wait because I want it to be natural and authentic between the characters, and so it really just depends on where they take me.

[Hannah]

So what inspired you to create the cities themed around precious gems?

[Jade Presley]

So I was trying to look at conduits for power. That's, like, when I was doing my research on, like, gods and goddesses and, like, kind of going through all the myths, because I was creating them from scratch. But it's always good to do the research on what's been done before. And so I was looking at history, and there was always, like, you know, temples erected for gods and goddesses, and some would use a particular stone or sediment or material or something like that, you know? And so I was like, that's where it started. And then I was like, oh, it's all very colorful and visual. When Riley shows me this world, especially with her world being, like, leached and gray and, like, not vibrant at all. So, like, submersing her into this new world full of color, I just. It kind of went from there. And I was like, oh, well, we've got these gorgeous gemstones, and which one fits best with which power and personality? And it kind of just spiraled from there.

[Hannah]

Are we going to see the precious gems interact with the magic system?

[Jade Presley]

Maybe. I'm like, yes.

[Hannah]

As you can see by my bookshelf, I've got so many crystals. So the fact that, like, I absolutely loved that it was themed to them. So, yes.

[Jade Presley]

And I feel like in Sequels, there's so much more room to actually dig. Dig into the systems and the world building even more now that the characters have been pretty much fully established. So, yes, there is definitely a lot more deep dive into, like, the inner workings of Lumethus and why it is the way it is. And it's not just pretty, but it is pretty, but it's not. It's all, like, related.

[Hannah]

So, I mean, you're developing four different relationships that are also interconnected. Not to throw us too far off, but, like, what was that like, to have to do in. You've written. Why choose before? But, like, also with world building thrown in to the extent of. You said that this one had more world building than the previous ones.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, it's. It's definitely. It's like a. It's. It's almost like a formula, which I don't like because I'm creative and I don't want to be put in boxes, but it is almost like you have to have, like. Almost like abcd. You have to have all these arcs and you have to see where they interlapped and where they clash and where they connect and, you know, the timelines, you gotta pull them all together. It's just. It's. It's definitely like a balancing act. Yeah, absolutely. And so what I try to do, I'm a plotter by nature, but with a why choose? For sure. I need to make sure I'm hitting all these different character arcs and milestones and goals in order to make sure that it all flows together. And so, yeah, I plot that out to try to make sure it looks smooth. And we go off book a little bit sometimes, me and my characters, but most of the time it stays true to that plot. And that's what helps me make sure they're all fully developed and they're doing what they need to do.

[Carly]

Sounds like a lot.

[Hannah]

I can't wait for book two.

[Carly]

That sounds like so much to manage all those checks and balances with your characters and having to lay that against the plot, that sounds like a lot to manage.

[Hannah]

You executed it beautifully. Yeah.

[Jade Presley]

Thank you so much. Sometimes it's a challenge, and I think that's why plotting helps me so much, is because I'll put in the work heavy in the front and make sure that we have this whole puzzle put together. And this second book, I've had lots of different pieces thrown at me that I didn't know, which has been super fun. But we're getting there. We're weaving it in.

[Carly]

Were there any real life Places that were inspiration for, like, any of the cities.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, absolutely. So it was just so much fun because I'm like, building a world from scratch. I love that. I love that when you can just create your own realm. And I'm like, the ruby air definitely gave me those Parisian vibes. Like, Paris and, like, everything's rose tinted and just, you know, artistic and fun. And then I like, I envision the Emerald Wood, like London if it was, like, cottage core. And so, like, blending those together was really fun. The Sapphire Cove. I look, I did a lot of research into Santorini and those kind of places, those coastal vibes, to get that kind of culture and community put together for him. And then for Jax, it was almost like if, like, Edgar Allan Poe was going to write, like, Las Vegas. That's kind of what I, like, envisioned, the Obsidian City.

[Hannah]

So, yeah, I was not expecting you to say that.

[Jade Presley]

I know it seems. It seems wild, but I don't know, like, if he would have. He would have had a Vegas in his time. I think that's what it would have looked like.

[Kinsey]

I mean, that description fits so well.

[Jade Presley]

It does.

[Hannah]

And it's interesting because Santorini is exactly what I pictured for Sapphire Cove.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, me and so glad.

[Carly]

I think that got brought up at book club.

[Hannah]

Yeah, it did. And I definitely pictured more of like, a woodsy cabin, like in the mountains of, you know, North Carolina or something for Emerald Wood. So I actually love to hear Cottagecore London, because if I ever had a place I could escape to, it would be like, what I think of as Cottagecore London. So you might be changing me from a Sapphire Cove, girly.

[Jade Presley]

I love that.

[Hannah]

But I guess what, I don't have to choose. I get to experience all of them.

[Kinsey]

We have a listener submitted question. Was Henry Cavill's Superman your inspiration for Cal?

[Jade Presley]

This is so hard to answer. I always try not to answer these because I feel like, what if I say my inspiration was somebody that, like, somebody just naturally doesn't like, you know, and it'll be like a turn off while they're reading. I feel like predominantly people into Henry, so I can say, yes, he was a big inspiration. He really was. Like, again, there's the flight and the healing and the super speed and just like his. He's just a good guy, you know, he's just that golden boy with the big heart, cinnamon roll character. And so, yeah, there was a lot of inspiration from that. And I think that's safe to say. But hopefully everybody likes him. But, yeah, sometimes I have a hard time doing the casting. Because, you know, sometimes we just naturally don't like actors or actresses. And, like, I don't ever want that to impede your reading experience. Yeah.

[Hannah]

I have to say, I just picture him blonde and I realize that none of the legends are blonde. I do know that. But I can't get him, like. And you can't really make Henry Cavill blonde, so I struggle with that.

[Kinsey]

He was in the Witcher.

[Jade Presley]

Ooh, that witcher. Yeah, that's a good one.

[Carly]

Oh, I didn't think about that silver.

[Kinsey]

Hair, if that counts.

[Hannah]

Yeah, it's a. I don't know, maybe it's because I just. He's so golden retriever that, like, it just is blonde to me.

[Kinsey]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And I was.

[Jade Presley]

I didn't do that on purpose. It's funny. My husband is blonde, so, like, I didn't even do that on purpose. It just happened. Like, they just were all, you know, that way when they came to me. So that's. I find that really funny that I'm like, wait, why didn't I do a blonde one?

[Hannah]

You had four chances.

[Jade Presley]

I know I had four chances to do blonde or redhead or anything, but I don't know, I just didn't come out that way.

[Hannah]

Well, to actually. Because I was going to ask you earlier, but I didn't want it to, like, go in because it was spoiler free section. But, like, do you mind sharing the order in which the legends came to you?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, yeah, for sure. So Cal came to me first. Of course. He's just such a sweetheart. He's just going to walk in and hold my hand and be like this. Okay, I'll ease you into this as he does Jax. Jax was so. Like, he was there at the choosing, but he was almost like this wraith. Like he hadn't fully formed yet when Riley was telling me who was kind of talking to her. But it wasn't. I knew it wasn't Cal. And so. And I think it couldn't have been Cal. I think there would have been a way different dynamic between them and it would have. It wouldn't have been that spicy back and forth banter that kind of linked them, her and Jax together. And so he was there, but it was like I couldn't see him or hear him. And then after that, it was Axel. He just was like. I don't know. I think maybe his and Cal's relationship is so close that, like, of course he was gonna come next. And then it was Jax and then Pierce.

[Hannah]

So I was so focused on the wraith and the picturing, the choosing. So it was Cal, then Jax, no Cal, then Axel. He was Cal then. So you almost did your order of how she went to each of their.

[Jade Presley]

You almost did. I did. It was just flipped with Pierce and Jax. So, yeah, finally Jax came to me after I got Axel fully fleshed out, and then very quickly after Pierce did. And, yeah, that order, it did help me choose, because I was like, I knew that she was going to have to spend some alone time with each of them because I really wanted that connection and that emotional bond to happen, which is kind of hard to happen when you've got, you know, four different voices coming at you at once. And so I knew she was going to be alone, and I knew because Cal came to me first. I was like, oh, he's that sweetheart. He's going to be able to ease her in and earn her trust and make her, you know, almost curious and, like, want to keep going, even though she has to keep going. But he was gonna be that safe spot in.

[Hannah]

So, yeah, I was wondering as I was reading what the thought process was behind the order, and it just felt like it fit so well. Like, it was such smooth transitions between each of them, and then how she got to take Cal with her. It's so good.

[Jade Presley]

Thank you. Okay. All right.

[Hannah]

I'll get off of my fangirl soapbox.

[Jade Presley]

No, it's okay. Thank you.

[Carly]

I know you said earlier that Riley was kind of the first one that came to you, and she came in kind of loud and mad, and she had this story to tell you. Was she first, or was there an initial spark for the story? What was the first spark of inspiration?

[Jade Presley]

She was definitely first. And so I was writing. I was deep in. I was almost done with the Veil of Blood and Magic, which is the next series I wrote after my first one and before the Never list. And so I was, like, like, totally consumed in this other, other world. And I feel like that's always how it happens. Like, I'm not thinking about anything else at all. I'm actually looking forward to taking, like, a week off and, like, not writing anything down. And then this girl comes in, and she's like, no, this is my story. She was talking about her sister, which was breaking my heart and, like, her circumstances. And so I'm just, like, writing it down in a notebook as fast as I can while I'm on deadline for another book. And so she really came in, and then it was like, she would give me pieces, and it'd be like, oh, and it's Also royal, and it's demigods and it's all this other stuff. And so, yeah, she's. I owe her a lot.

[Hannah]

Was there a specific inspiration for the Never List itself? Not like the book, but like the. The list?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, absolutely. So once I figured out how much royal intrigue and the elite and wealthy was gonna play into this plot, I started doing tons of research on different monarchies throughout history. And there was like a ton, obviously, in the UK that came out with the British monarchy. And I found out, like, back in the day, they kept all kinds of lists. They had silly lists like. Like the most important birthdays list and who is going to have the most planned list. And they just had tons of extensive, almost odd lists where you're like, who. Which poor scribe is keeping up with all this stuff? You know what I mean? And then I thought, you know, I was like, well, what if there was a Never List? And like, your. All your hopes and dreams of ever excelling in class or even marrying outside of your class or doing anything was lost because you or your family name is on this list. And that kind of really jived with Riley's voice and her story. And so those two kind of combined for sure.

[Hannah]

Oh, it's absolutely fascinating. Kinsey, you look like you're about to ask a question.

[Kinsey]

Oh, I was going to ask the same thing.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, perfect.

[Hannah]

These next few questions come straight from our dear fantasy reader book club. You kind of already touched on this one, but we'll ask it just for the sake of it. Will there be more world building in book two? And what can you tell us about that, if anything?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, absolutely. There will be a ton more world building in book two. Like I said, sequels are so much fun because you have those characters established. And while we'll learn more about the characters as well, I get to play with the world a lot more and weave in those elements that I didn't get to in book one. And so there's a lot more of the history of Lumetus. And I'm just trying to make sure I'm not going to say something I'm not allowed to say. There's a lot more background on, like, we were talking about, like, the cities. Like, we got peaks, but we didn't really get to see all of the interworkings. And there's also going to be some exploration of the other realms around Lumetus as well that we're going to touch on that I did not get to do in book one. So I'm very excited about that.

[Hannah]

So I have two follow up questions to this. They're a little bit more specific and feel free to say pass if you need to. If they get a little too close to the sun. On the last thing you just said about exploring outside of the places we've been or have been told about before, can you share anything about how the other kingdoms are governed or just confirm whether governance varies between them?

[Jade Presley]

It does vary. I can say there is another one that is definitely monarchy. The kings. And you know, the kings vibe with each other. I could say that.

[Hannah]

Do the other kingdoms have magic or their own goddesses?

[Jade Presley]

Yes, some of them do have magic. Some of them do have magic.

[Hannah]

Perfect.

[Kinsey]

What was it like writing that cliffhanger?

[Jade Presley]

It was brutal. Like I was talking about before, I was in a lot of pain as well during those scenes, especially with the Jax's point of view. And it's crazy because I did see it through all the male point of views, but like, I only wrote Jax's, but I could feel it through them too. And so it was. It was absolutely brutal. And it took me a while and I was in a very, like, sad space after. I needed a lot of ice cream. I needed like ordering food and then like just laying in bed for a week after. No, it was really. It was really tough because I actually didn't see pieces of it coming until Riley got there. And so it hurt. It hurt a lot.

[Kinsey]

What was your ice cream of choice to recover?

[Jade Presley]

It's chocolate with rainbow sprinkles. Every time. It's definitely not like an adult order, but that's like my favorite.

[Hannah]

Would you be comfortable sharing what pieces came to you that kind of surprised you about them? The end.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, absolutely. So I didn't plot that. That the boys were going to have to give up the super spoiler if you haven't read it, but yeah, that they were going to have to give up their powers to save her. Like, I did not plot that. That just happened while it was in the scene and I was like, oh my gosh, this is happening. And so that was a really big surprise.

[Hannah]

That's fascinating because the entire time I was reading the whole book, I was like, please have this happen. Like, I was hoping that that happened. So.

[Jade Presley]

Whoa.

[Hannah]

That's so cool.

[Jade Presley]

I love that. I love that. Yeah, it was a big surprise and maybe, I don't know, maybe it just fit. But I was just like, wait, what? I thought she was gonna be okay.

[Hannah]

You can totally say pass on this because it is totally something you're probably not gonna want to answer, but I'm gonna shoot my shot. Is she gonna be able to keep some of their powers? Is there a reality in which that could happen where she could keep 13% of each of their power?

[Jade Presley]

I think that anything is possible. I really do. I also. It's hard for me to, like, fully answer that when I. This book has not been edited yet, and so there is a team of brilliant editors that I have that will, you know, direct me one way or the other sometimes on different scenes. And so, like, I don't want to say something. And then it'd be like, oh, we're going to actually edit that out and save that for another book. And so I will have to say pass, but I think anything's possible.

[Hannah]

I'm glad to hear. Not affirm. Absolutely not. Like, you're crazy for thinking that could ever happen. So you know what?

[Jade Presley]

I'll take it. I'm so definitely not crazy. I mean, Riley is an incredibly strong character. I think that's been pretty established throughout the book one. So, yeah, I think if anybody could do it, I think she could do it, but I'm just not sure yet.

[Carly]

Did you always know while writing this book that it was gonna end the.

[Hannah]

Way it did, specifically with the sister?

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah. So this is what's crazy. I knew that, like, going into it, like, we. Yeah. And some people have guessed it, some people haven't. And then it's super fun because, like, I love hearing the theories on Erin's character because I know so much about her, but I can't say either way because, like, nobody knows yet. And so I love. I love hearing those theories. It's so much fun because some people hate her. Some people are like, oh, I don't know. And it's just like, it's a really fun game to play.

[Hannah]

I bet that's absolutely FASC Being able to be like, I know everything you don't know about this series and where it's going.

[Jade Presley]

And it's so hard, too, because it's like, I don't want to keep information from you guys, but I also want it to be a fun reading experience.

[Hannah]

Yeah, totally understand. I like to call it author enrichment activities for us is like, the theorizing between books. So, yeah, I think at this point, I've coined that term for our theorizing.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, I love that.

[Kinsey]

I mean, even just during the book, I was like, I have a feeling. And then once it actually happened, I was like. Like, yeah, I was right. See, it's so tickled my brain.

[Hannah]

I didn't see the sister coming, but I, I saw the powers.

[Jade Presley]

I love. See, that's what I love. Because I've gotten that a lot. It's been different like in my DMs. It's so much fun cuz I'll have somebody be like, that was so obvious. And then other people will be like, I didn't see it coming and they loved it either way. But I, I just, I love that I. That's so much fun hearing that. It just depends.

[Kinsey]

So we know this is a trilogy. What if anything, can you share with us about the next book?

[Hannah]

As if we haven't been asking you.

[Jade Presley]

So let's see. What have we not discussed that I can say we are going to get more of the boys as a unit. I say boys. The men as a unit. Why does it say weird when I say men though? Like, I don't know. Let's. Okay, scratch that. The princes, the legend. It just sounds better than men. I don't know why, but we're going to get more of them as a unit and like more of them of how they work together that we might not have seen in the first book. We're going into a whole new world now. Like, I mean it's still Lumetus, but like all the stakes are going to be different from where we left off. Like all, like everything is. We thought it was bad in book one and now it's like really blown up with the what's at stake and what they all have to do in order to get to their end goal, which is obviously peace and happiness. It's going to be a long road.

[Hannah]

But I'm glad to hear that there's like a semi confirmation of a happily ever after.

[Jade Presley]

I just don't think I can write a book without a happily ever after, honestly. But I think it's definitely going to be a lot to get there.

[Carly]

Is there maybe perhaps a little bit of an estimated timeline for the next one?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, I wish I could give you one. I don't. They haven't. My house hasn't given me a date yet. I think they're waiting for me to finish my first crack at it before this one is. Definitely. There's a lot more to go into, so I feel like that might be why it's taken me a bit longer. But I'm halfway into it. So it's like I'm getting, I'm getting close. And so I think the minute I like hand in that first draft, they're going to be like, okay, now this is the Date, and then I'll be able to tell you guys.

[Carly]

Well, to be fair, the first book hasn't even been out that long. I think they're all.

[Hannah]

It hasn't even had a second to breathe. So no clips. They couldn't not ask.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, no. I know. I get that question all the time, and I really wish I had a date, but I think they're just waiting until I actually hand it in to make sure that, like, it's hand in hand before they're like, you're gonna go live now. Yeah.

[Hannah]

So you mentioned being halfway through book two. Without giving too much away, of course. Is there a scene you've already written that you're absolutely obsessed with?

[Jade Presley]

Yes. Yeah. I can't wait. There's actually a couple. I've actually. It's been so much more fun this time around to do the boys scenes, and there's a lot more of them in this one than there was. Yeah. I can't explain why, but I just wrote. Like I said, I just finished a scene with Axel that was just, like, so him and so much fun. And it's been a struggle because obviously, with the way book one ended, obviously it's a tough opening. And so I think this chapter with him was just, like. It was like the hug I needed, and it was just fun. And I just love him so.

[Carly]

Well, as an Axel girly, I'm very excited.

[Jade Presley]

Yes. Yes.

[Hannah]

This was not a planned last question, but I have to ask. How did you make the sex scenes better each stop? Because I was like, after Cal, I was like, there's no. As a cowgirly. There is no topping this. And then they just got better every time. And then the multiple. Multiple Pierce.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, my God. That was one of my favorite to write. Cause it's so bizarre, right? Like, it shouldn't work, but it does. I love that.

[Hannah]

It totally does. It so does.

[Jade Presley]

That's a really good question. I don't. Honestly, I don't have, like. I don't sit down and I'm like, okay, I got a top cow or I got a top axlock. It's more just like, getting into, like, what would they do and what would be the best, like, vibes for them? And then I kind of just lose myself in it. Sometimes I have to draw stick figure drawings to make sure everything works out. Literally. I'm not an artist. I really wish I was. Gotta do these stick figure drawings. People tell me that I need to get those, like, artist dolls and, like, five of them and, like, figure that out.

[Hannah]

I would Love a behind the scenes video of you trying to do that. Like, playing with Barbies.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, my gosh. It's so funny because I want to make sure, like, it's authentic. I mean, we're in a fantasy world. There's powers flying around. But, like, I'm like, okay, literally flying. Like, yes, literally flying. Like, that was so much fun. But, like, I'm trying to make sure it actually logistically works. So it's really fun. Like when my husband will walk in and I've got this, like, weird drawing. He's like, what are you doing? Like, just, you know, logistics, like, figuring out the actual part. But yeah, so I don't. I don't sit out, like, trying to top the last one. It's just. It's really the guy. You just did it. I feel like you did a good. I feel like that's just, like, what they would do. And it's like, okay, we'll take that.

[Kinsey]

You did a good job with the logistics. I was like, okay, so their hands here and their mouth is there, and this is here. I had to, like, sit down and be like, where is everybody watching?

[Hannah]

Right?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah. And it's hard because, like, I feel like, especially with so much going on, like, it would be easy. Like, wait, where did that other hand come from?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jade Presley]

And so I'm, like, meticulous about that. Cause I'm like, I do not want another, like an appendage, just somewhere that doesn't make sense. So I'm like, okay, we draw this out, we map it. It's almost. It's just crazy. It's like you're mapping out a route or something.

[Hannah]

Well, and then you've got Pierce, who you don't even have to worry about that because if she's feeling it, it's literally just, you know, it's just him doing whatever method of his. His powers he prefers in that moment.

[Jade Presley]

Exactly. I love him. So he's so much fun to do that with because he could. It's just like, there's no limit. Like, I love it.

[Hannah]

Wow. This has been. First of all, this whole conversation from start to finish has been so much fun.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, thank you.

[Hannah]

So excited. So excited for book two. But before we get there, forgive me, I don't know why I said before we get there, we aren't going to book two. Hang on, hang on. Let me think of a better way to do it.

[Jade Presley]

I mean, I am. I've got to write it. I will be.

[Hannah]

Before we let you get back to writing that, we are going to shake Things up. Which is an interesting phrase. Following that conversation with our Are you smarter than a fangirl? Rapid fire trivia segment where we test the ultimate question. Does the author remember their own book better than a totally unhinged reader? Here is how it works. One of us takes off our headphones while Jade answers as many trivia questions about the never list as she can. Under two minutes. Once time's up, the fangirl will come back on and try to answer those same questions from memory. No notes, no context. Just pure fangirl chaos. Then we'll tally at the scores and see who reigns supreme.

[Jade Presley]

I'm so excited for this. I'm excited. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Hannah's going to be our fangirl for this episode. I will be the game host, and Carly is our scorekeeper. Will the author triumph? Will Hannah crumble under pressure? There's only one way to find out. If you don't know the answer, feel free to say pass. And remember, this is all in good fun. And honestly, it's probably more entertaining if you don't remember.

[Hannah]

We've probably got you covered on a couple of those.

[Kinsey]

Or accidentally slip a spoiler. Hannah, headphones off and set your timer to come back.

[Hannah]

I'll give you a thumbs up when it's set.

[Kinsey]

Okay.

[Hannah]

I'll also not be looking at the screen, so I'm just gonna wait for this timer to go off.

[Kinsey]

Carly, do you have your scoreboard ready?

[Carly]

I have my scoreboard and my timer ready.

[Kinsey]

Perfect. Just waiting for that thumbs up from Hannah. All right, Jade, are you ready?

[Jade Presley]

I'm so ready. Okay.

[Kinsey]

Three, two, one, go. What are the names of the four legends?

[Jade Presley]

Axel, Cal, Pierce, and Jack.

[Kinsey]

Which stone represents Pierce?

[Jade Presley]

Emerald.

[Kinsey]

What are Riley's favorite drinks?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, my gosh. Coffee and whiskey.

[Kinsey]

Perfect. What color are Jack's eyes?

[Jade Presley]

Indigo. What is Cal's power, Light and super strength.

[Kinsey]

Okay, what color did Riley wear for her first date with Cal in Ruby?

[Jade Presley]

Air Blue.

[Kinsey]

Which legend has the nickname the Nightmare?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, that's Jack.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. What metal is Axel's token made out of?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, my gosh. T. Platinum. No.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Jade Presley]

Okay. Yeah.

[Kinsey]

What contestant number is Riley?

[Jade Presley]

13.

[Kinsey]

What does Riley tell Badel her profession is when they first meet?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, she's a dyer.

[Kinsey]

What is Axel's nickname for Riley?

[Jade Presley]

Kitten.

[Kinsey]

What emblem do the faders wear on their cheek?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, it's the red with the sword in it.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, close enough. What did the princes destroy to get their legends of Chaos nickname?

[Jade Presley]

Teacups.

[Kinsey]

What is the name of Jax's nightclub?

[Jade Presley]

Les.

[Kinsey]

What is used to enhance the Athenry Elixir.

[Jade Presley]

The goddess's blood. Yep.

[Kinsey]

Whose room do the princes meet in before the choosing?

[Jade Presley]

Axel's.

[Kinsey]

What gem does Jacks describe Riley as after he's chosen her?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, I can't remember. You're good, Diamond. Sorry.

[Kinsey]

Yes. Fill in the blank. By agreeing to participate in the choosing, you are giving blank consent to intimate acts with or all four of the Legends of Chaos.

[Jade Presley]

Enthusiastic?

[Kinsey]

Yes. Prior to Riley, what was the longest amount of time a potential lasted in the choosing?

[Jade Presley]

One month.

[Kinsey]

What is Riley's first meal in Ruby Air?

[Jade Presley]

Oh, it's the brioche toast, I believe. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Wow.

[Jade Presley]

That was.

[Kinsey]

Someone's timer went off.

[Carly]

That was my timer.

[Hannah]

Wow.

[Kinsey]

You got through them all.

[Jade Presley]

Not one.

[Hannah]

Oh, no.

[Jade Presley]

There were a couple that were tough. There were.

[Kinsey]

There were a couple that were tricky.

[Jade Presley]

Especially with the sequel because I was like. There was a quick second there. I almost said something. So you guys are good. You guys are really good.

[Hannah]

I'm gonna have to watch this back and see which one that was.

[Carly]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Oh, now I'm nervous. We'll see if I can get through them.

[Jade Presley]

You guys are great.

[Kinsey]

And then feel free to keep your headphones on. You don't have to take them off because you already know the questions. So you get to listen to her response. All right, Kylie, let us know when you are ready with that timer.

[Carly]

Ready?

[Kinsey]

Yes. Okay, what are the names of the four legends?

[Hannah]

Axel, Pierce. Jackson. Cow.

[Kinsey]

Which stone represents Pierce?

[Hannah]

Oh.

[Carly]

Oh, I should know this.

[Hannah]

I do.

[Carly]

Emerald.

[Hannah]

What the heck?

[Jade Presley]

Emerald.

[Kinsey]

What are Riley's favorite drinks?

[Hannah]

Whiskey and coffee. Sometimes together, but sometimes she likes chocolate with her coffee.

[Kinsey]

What color are Jack's eyes?

[Carly]

Black.

[Hannah]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Kinsey]

What is Cal's power?

[Hannah]

Cal's is speed and flight.

[Kinsey]

What color did Riley wear for her first date with Cal and Ruby Air?

[Hannah]

Blue was blue or green.

[Kinsey]

Which legend has the nickname the Nightmare?

[Hannah]

Jack's.

[Kinsey]

What metal is Axel's token made out of?

[Hannah]

Oh, come on.

[Jade Presley]

Don't remember the metal.

[Kinsey]

Do you want to Pass.

[Hannah]

No, that was a ring. It's a spider ring. Right? Keep going. Pass.

[Kinsey]

That's not a battle. What contestant number is Riley?

[Hannah]

13.

[Kinsey]

What does Riley tell Baydel? Her profession is when they first meet?

[Hannah]

Pass.

[Kinsey]

What is Axel's nickname for Riley?

[Hannah]

Axel's. I get the nicknames confused. We've got Kitten, Butterfly. If it's not one of those. Pass.

[Kinsey]

Okay. What emblem do the faders wear on their cheek?

[Hannah]

Pass.

[Kinsey]

What did the princes destroy to get their Legends of Chaos nickname? Oh, no. Pass. What is the name of Jacks? Nightclub.

[Hannah]

Lux. Yeah. Lux or Lu. Yeah, close.

[Carly]

Very close.

[Jade Presley]

Lush.

[Hannah]

No, I lure. Pass.

[Kinsey]

Okay, what is used to enhance the athenry? Elixir or Athenry?

[Hannah]

Oh, my God, I feel embarrassed. Pass.

[Kinsey]

Whose room do the princes meet in before the choosing?

[Jade Presley]

Oh.

[Kinsey]

Time. Okay.

[Hannah]

Damn. Sorry, guys.

[Kinsey]

I think it's safe to say we have a clear winner here.

[Jade Presley]

Those are tough. Those are tough, though.

[Hannah]

They were way more detailed than I thought.

[Kinsey]

Jacks eyes are indigo.

[Hannah]

Indigo.

[Kinsey]

And let's see. The ring. Or Axel's token is made out of platinum. She told Jax's dad that she is a dyer for clothing. Nicknames. Kitten.

[Jade Presley]

Oh.

[Hannah]

So I did get Kitten. I did get that.

[Kinsey]

You said kitten.

[Jade Presley]

Butterfly.

[Hannah]

And I said butterfly. I said it first, though.

[Kinsey]

Okay, fine. We'll get it. We'll get to you. The emblem is a red circle with a dagger speared through it.

[Hannah]

They broke teacups.

[Kinsey]

That's why they're called the legends of Chaos. Lust along the elixir.

[Carly]

You were so close.

[Jade Presley]

You were close.

[Hannah]

The elixir, it was a four letter and that didn't make sense.

[Jade Presley]

You were so close. Yeah, you were right.

[Hannah]

So close.

[Kinsey]

Yeah. You literally got three of the letters with the lush. You just needed.

[Hannah]

I was so close. You know what? I did better in our practice round.

[Kinsey]

And then the elixir had a drop of blood from the goddess.

[Jade Presley]

So.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jade Presley]

Those are tough, though. I'm not gonna lie. Those are tough.

[Kinsey]

They were really tough.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I'm nervous for when it's my turn.

[Jade Presley]

The pressure, the pressure.

[Hannah]

I was not fresh off of a reread. Now I'm like, now I've gotta go read it again because clearly I'm missing some details. That was fun, though.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah, that's great.

[Hannah]

I missed yours. How was your experience?

[Jade Presley]

It was great. Like I said, they're really detailed. And so it's funny because I. You know, I finished writing this book almost a year and a half ago. And while I have reread it through edits, it's like there are things that got taken out and put in. So it's like you never really know. And so a couple of them did trip me up because I'm like, wait, did we change that? Was that the same, like. And so.

[Kinsey]

Yeah, you know, I didn't even think about how edits could change what you thought it was.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jade Presley]

Like, I could say something from the original. That's what's funny. And then there's that one that I won't say, but I was like, oh, man, that's. You know, that made me that tripped me up. I loved it.

[Hannah]

We're totally supposed to be out of the questions portion, but can you. Would you be comfortable sharing anything that you did change from the first one that you're, like, you think about or would be interesting?

[Jade Presley]

Yeah. So like I said, I have the best team of editors ever. They have helped me shape the story so much. And so there was a couple scenes that they were like, this would be more impactful in book two. And so we just shifted those, and they involve Aaron. And so I was very like, I want to make sure I didn't say anything wrong. And so, yeah, but they got shifted to book two, and it makes so much sense now as a whole. And that's why I love editors, because they help you kind of see bigger picture stuff instead of just being, like, super into it with the characters. And so, yeah, stuff with Aaron.

[Hannah]

Boy, I cannot wait for the next book.

[Kinsey]

And then I guess I skipped a little bit. Since, Carly, you were our official scorekeeper. What were the scores?

[Carly]

You know, we don't need to choose, given the theme of this interview.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Jade Presley]

Thank you.

[Hannah]

Why choose?

[Kinsey]

Why choose the real winner?

[Carly]

Winners in my book, but the listeners know who got more questions.

[Jade Presley]

Right. Thank you so much. I am ashamed.

[Kinsey]

There was a moment where we got to the end of the list. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have to scroll up really fast and go through our practice questions, too.

[Hannah]

We did impressive work then. Yeah.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

I was really impressed.

[Jade Presley]

Those were really tough. Those were good. Because I think I only mentioned Platinum once. And so it's, like, to remember that. It's, like, great.

[Kinsey]

I wouldn't remember that detail.

[Jade Presley]

I was like, wait. Which was.

[Hannah]

No, but there were some of those in that I should have remembered. Like, wait, now I'm for. Is it lust?

[Jade Presley]

Lust? Is lust.

[Hannah]

Okay? Yeah. I was like, am I getting it wrong again? Like, I should have. I. I helped make the. Well, I made the drinks. The themed drinks, like, the guide. And so, like, that's how I knew immediately. Riley's like, drinks.

[Jade Presley]

Yes.

[Hannah]

I love that I should have remembered because I themed our segment of the book club literally lust. Like, dropping by lust for our drinks.

[Jade Presley]

So it's fine.

[Hannah]

I love that I tell myself as I shit.

[Kinsey]

Now, before we let Jade go, we are going to close with the little tradition we're calling the reader's letter, a short appreciation letter to the author, shared only if, of course, our guests are comfortable with it.

[Hannah]

Dearest fantasy Author, thank you for seeing us, the readers who have never been able to pick just one book Boyfriend. And finally don't have to. You wrote the never list for the girlies who want the grumpy and the golden retriever and more. You gave us four men with four very different love languages and somehow made us believe that we be loved like that by all of them at once together. And we haven't been normal since. Truly. Thank you for the fantasy empowerment and the goddess bless thirst traps. You didn't just give us a story. We got a new obsession and at least four new standards no real human can live up to. We'll be rereading, swooning, and making entirely too many why choose jokes while we eagerly wait for book two. With hearts full and expectations ruined, your fantasy readers.

[Jade Presley]

Aw. Well, thank you so much. Literally means the world to me. I love you guys and appreciate you so much. So thank you.

[Hannah]

Thank you.

[Carly]

We're so grateful that you took the time to do this with us.

[Jade Presley]

Of course. Anytime. I love it. I hope to come back for book two and play again.

[Hannah]

Yeah, absolutely, ma'. Am. Considered it booked.

[Jade Presley]

Yeah.

[Kinsey]

Well, we'll email your publicist.

[Carly]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Because this is seriously one of my favorite reads of the entire year. Arguably, like, the best experience. I loved this book so, so, so much. And I feel like it is just gonna awaken so many people to the y shoes trope. And I cannot, cannot, cannot wait, cannot wait for book two.

[Jade Presley]

Thank you so much.

[Hannah]

And book three, I'm already like, anything you're gonna write, I'm gonna read it.

[Jade Presley]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful. And thank you, Kenzie, for stopping by that it was so great to meet you. So I love that it led to this. That was such an awesome encounter. So thank you.

[Hannah]

And also thank you from Carly and I to you, Kenzie, for. For the book signed.

[Kinsey]

And yeah, I'm the mailer. I get the books and I mail them out.

[Jade Presley]

You made the trek in the snow and everything. You're very brave and I appreciate was worth it.

[Kinsey]

It was totally worth it. So thank you, listeners. We have linked Jade's socials down in the show notes so you can follow along and stay up to date on the series. Jade, thank you again so much for chatting with us. We had such a great time.

[Jade Presley]

Yes, thank you. Me too. This was absolutely so much fun. 10 out of 10.

[Carly]

Thank you for sharing your time and being such a joy to talk to.

[Hannah]

We just.

[Carly]

We love this so much and we can't wait to talk to you next time when book two is finally here.

[Jade Presley]

Absolutely. I can't wait. Thank you.

[Carly]

If this is your first time listening, welcome. We are Hannah, Kinsey and Carly, three book besties who deep dive, theorize, fangirl and crash Course course your favorite fantasy read so you're always ready for what's next.

[Hannah]

Occasionally we get to interview amazing authors like Jade Presley. And if you're wondering who's coming on next, we announce all upcoming author interviews over on Instagram, so be sure to follow us there.

[Kinsey]

We just wrapped our season three Chapters by Chapters Deep Dive of Onyx Storm and are working hard on our next prep season for Burn of the Everflame that will include recaps, world building and lore breakdowns and more.

[Carly]

We also have a book club that selects a fantasy or romantic book and meets to discuss it on a live stream on the last Wednesday of every month. You can join on Patreon where you can access all of our episodes ad free a day early and in full, video plus extras like weekly PDF annotations, shoutouts, bonus resources and more.

[Kinsey]

You'll find our Patreon link in the Show Notes along with all the ways you can support the show, whether that's joining a tier, subscribing, leaving a review, or just sharing us with your fellow Romantasy readers.

[Hannah]

You can also find more information about our previous and upcoming seasons, episode and events, calendar, other author interviews, our contact form, and more on our newly revamped website that I am so proud of. So please go check it [e-mail] also linked down in the Show Notes.

[Carly]

We'd love to hear from you. Send us your thoughts, tag us on Instagram, or come fangirl with us over your favorite fantasy books in our free Discord Chat.

[Hannah]

Until next time, dearest fantasy readers, May your chapters be spicy, your book boyfriend's morally gray, and your TBR organized just enough to justify one more pre order. That was so fun. Oh my God, she's incredible. I absolutely love her.

[Carly]

I I feel like why choose? Authors are just gonna be more fun.

[Kinsey]

It's a vibe.

[F]

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