Death, SNAKES & Money

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Death, SNAKES & Money"

Podcast: Death, Sex & Money
Host: Anna Sale
Date: May 12, 2026
Featured Guest: Tim Friedy
Main Theme:
An exploration of Tim Friedy’s extraordinary journey of self-experimentation with venomous snakes, his quest to improve antivenom, and the personal cost of his scientific obsession.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the unconventional and harrowing life of Tim Friedy, an ordinary man from Wisconsin who exposed himself to venomous snake bites over 20 years—ultimately leading to breakthroughs in universal antivenom research. Host Anna Sale explores both the science and psychology behind Tim's obsession, the risks and sacrifices he made, and how his journey navigated the intersection of personal mission, family, and recognition.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Global Problem of Snakebite (00:00–02:50)

• Anna introduces the lesser-known but deadly issue of snakebites, responsible for ~120,000 deaths worldwide annually, mostly among the poor.
• Explains the shortcomings of current antivenom: species-specific, expensive, and risky due to animal-based antibodies.
• Tim Friedy emerges as an outsider fixated on reinventing this system.

2. Tim's Background & Motivations (09:36–15:10)

• Tim recounts his first snakebite at age 5 and how familial and cultural opposition fueled his interest in science.
  • Quote, Tim (11:48): "Religion's stupid and God doesn't exist. ... You're not going to get all these animals on an Ark."
• Adopted into a religious home; early disconnect from family led to self-reliance and a stubborn, evidence-driven outlook.
• Early fascination with figures like Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, and independent scientific inquiry.

3. The Path to Self-Immunization (SI) (15:10–20:10)

• Inspired by historical and contemporary examples, Tim starts self-immunizing—first by injecting minuscule, diluted doses of venom.
• A tragic car accident involving a supportive friend (who gifted him his first needles) catalyzes his efforts and deepens his resolve.
  • Quote, Tim (21:45): "She knew I was gonna do it."

4. Devastation and Persistence (23:03–29:05)

• In grief, Tim becomes reckless, resulting in a life-threatening double cobra bite (09/12/2001) and an ICU stay.
  • Quote, Tim (24:58): "[Cobra venom] affects your diaphragm. Can't breathe, and you're fully paralyzed. But you can think because it doesn't affect your central nervous system."
• Despite family, financial, and health costs, he presses on—developing precise, methodical venom dosing and self-study.

5. Community and Scientific Reception (30:05–45:54)

• Faces skepticism and ridicule, yet finds camaraderie within a niche community of “snake people.”
• Unsuccessful attempts to secure recognition or financial support—reaching out to high-profile figures and media.
  • Quote, Tim (30:17): "[Warren Buffett] sent me a letter... 'I'm not gonna help you.' Well, fuck off."
• Gains some media attention (e.g., YouTube, National Geographic) but is relegated to curiosity status, not scientific authority.

6. Personal Costs: Family, Finances, and Identity (45:17–50:35)

• Tim's relentless pursuit leads to the collapse of his marriage, loss of his home, and estrangement from his children.
• He continues his experiments in adverse conditions, fueled by the sense that quitting, after such sacrifice, would be pointless.
  • Quote, Tim (46:24): "If I quit now, why did I even start doing it?"

7. Breakthrough: Partnership with Science (51:15–54:49)

• In 2019, Dr. Jacob Glanville (Syntivax) contacts Tim; his unique blood becomes foundational for universal antivenom research.
• Tim becomes Director of Herpetology at Syntivax, finally gaining financial stability and recognition (if reluctantly).
  • Quote, Tim (53:21): "I consider myself a vaccinologist."
  • Quote, Tim (54:02): "Almost every one of [my friends and family] said, 'God damn, you did it.' Every one of them."
• Despite not being a named author on scientific papers (due to controversy), he’s acknowledged for his critical contribution.
  • Quote, Tim (55:54): "They acknowledged me and put my name in there. ... If it still gets in the field, I'm still as part of it."

8. Life After Snakes: Meaning, Health, and Reflection (57:05–60:36)

• Tim’s current life: stable, modestly prosperous, living with his supportive girlfriend (who also loves reptiles), but no longer keeping snakes.
• Practices careful health habits as he ages, aware of the toll his previous lifestyle took.
  • Quote, Tim (58:56): "The more I can hike, the more I can fish, the more I can be outside. I don't do it to break records; I just do it to be healthy."
• Still excited by snakes he encounters in the wild, deeply grateful for their role in his journey.
  • Quote, Tim (60:37): "Now when I look at the snake, I can talk to the snake and say, 'Thanks, man. It’s because of you I’m here right now.'"

9. The Science and the Future (61:01)

• Syntivax’s universal antivenom (rooted in Tim’s blood and research) aims for clinical animal trials in Australia, targeting field-ready use by 2028.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Triumphant Defiance (02:50):
  Tim: "I've had so many naysayers ... Now you can hear a pin drop. Oh, I really didn't mean that. I knew you were gonna do it. Fuck you."

• Childhood Bite Sparks Obsession (09:45):
  Tim: "1973, I was 5 years old, and that was my first garter snake bite. ... That’s kind of what kicked it off."

• Science vs Faith (11:48):
  Tim: "I was adopted. ... I understood it early, clear as day ... religion's stupid and God doesn't exist."

• Persistence Through Setbacks (46:24):
  Anna: "Why did you have to keep doing it?"
  Tim: "Because I was in too deep. ... If I quit now, why did I even start doing it?"

• Closure and Recognition (54:05):
  Tim: "When I was in the front cover of the New York Times ... He was speechless ... So that for me was... the best thing ever."

• On Health and Aging (58:56):
  Tim: "The better you take care of yourself. The more I can hike, the more I can fish, the more I can be outside. ... I just do it to be healthy as I possibly can."

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–02:50: Anna introduces Tim Friedy, sets the stakes of the global snakebite crisis.
• 09:36–15:10: Tim’s childhood, science vs. religion, formative motivations.
• 23:03–24:58: Cobra bite ICU experience—paralysis, brush with death.
• 30:05–30:43: Repeated attempts to attract support, outreach to influential figures.
• 41:24–43:18: Tim’s methods, meticulous planning, managing bites alongside blue-collar work.
• 45:17–46:36: Family collapse, financial ruin, and the internal logic of persistence.
• 51:15–54:49: Partnership with Syntivax, ultimate recognition, emotional closure.
• 60:27–61:01: Tim reflects on his bond with snakes and the meaning found in his journey.

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Tone & Language

Anna Sale's tone is empathetic, frank, and curious—drawing out Tim’s unvarnished, often profane self-assessment. Tim's language is direct, self-deprecating, and occasionally raw—underscoring both the seriousness and the wildness of his endeavors.

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Conclusion

"Death, SNAKES & Money" is an engrossing, humanistic portrait of relentless curiosity. It blends scientific drama with the deeply personal costs and triumphs of a man who risked everything to solve a deadly problem most people never think about, in pursuit of a legacy that might save thousands of lives. Through heartbreak, financial ruin, and bodily danger, Tim Friedy’s story is a testament to unconventional perseverance, the pain and reward of breaking rules, and finding meaning in unlikely places.

Transcript

[Anna Sale]

When you're young and you first learn about the great unsolved problems in the world, we need a cure for cancer, clean energy, ending global conflict. There can be this flicker of childlike hope that maybe you will be the one to solve one of these. As we get older, reality sets in. Solving big problems is hard. Even if you do become a scientist or a doctor or a diplomat. There are endless bureaucratic hurdles, funding gaps, gatekeepers, just complex problems that don't have one simple solution. Most of us start chasing smaller things or biting off more manageable tasks, like how to deliver a compelling podcast intro. Tim Friedy is not most people. From the time he was a teenager in Wisconsin, Tim became fixated on a problem most Americans have never thought about. Racism. Roughly 120,000 people die a year from venomous snake bites. Mostly poor people, mostly in places far from hospitals. The antivenom available today is made essentially the same way it was made in the 1890s. You inject a horse with snake venom, harvest the antibodies it produces, and hope it works on the specific snake that bit you. It's expensive, it's species specific, and it can trigger serious allergic reactions because the antibodies are coming from an animal, not a human. Tim thought there had to be a better way. You may have first heard about Tim the way I did about a year ago when the New York Times published a story in the Science section. Hooked to a recently published research paper, the headline of the Times article, universal Antivenom May Grow out of man who let snakes Bite him 200 times. That man is Tim. Over nearly two decades, he turned his own body into a biological experiment. Working alone in a converted basement lab in Wisconsin while he was raising kids and holding down manual labor jobs, washing windows on high rises, working factory lines in the back of restaurants, he would come home and inject himself with escalating doses of snake venom to build up immunity. It didn't always go right. Sometimes he ended up in the icu. He lost one home in foreclosure, and eventually he decided to give up his hobby of letting lethal snakes bite him in 2018. And then a biotech company came calling, and all his efforts contributed to a major breakthrough.

[Tim Friedy]

You know, it's funny. When I first started, I've had so many naysayers come to me, and it was terrible. I almost didn't get through it. You're not going to get published. Nobody's going to support you again. You're not going to make any money. So what I did is I changed my thinking on that. I didn't get mad at them. I took it to heart and I said okay, you are right. I do have to get studied. I do have to make a contribution. Otherwise what am I worth? And now you can hear a pin drop. Oh, I really didn't mean that. I knew you were gonna do it. Fuck you.

[Anna Sale]

This is Death, Sex and Money, the show from Slate about the things we think about a lot. I need to talk about more. I'm Anna Sal.

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[Anna Sale]

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[Tim Friedy]

This is Tim Friedy. Tim is a 57 year old man from Wisconsin who, this is absolutely true, has been bitten by snakes 200 times. How did Tim get 200 snake bites? Did he fall into a zoo enclosure? Was he a stunt double in Raiders of the Lost Ark? No. Tim Friedy got 200 snake bites on purpose.

[Anna Sale]

You may have also run into Tim on YouTube where he posts videos. In his most popular one, he's hanging out with his buddies in his basement, which is lined by plexiglass cages. There are science books and a pinup girl calendar behind him. He's wearing a Slayer band T shirt and he takes out a black mamba snake, which is a very dangerous snake for people. Most people.

[Tim Friedy]

Ready? Yep. Two bites. Nice. Son of a bitch. Fuck yeah. Two bites Joe. Dude. Dude, I got hairs standing up on every part of my body, there are

[Anna Sale]

about a dozen of these snakebite videos. He's usually alone. They are not slickly produced. It's clear from these videos that content creation is not the point of this hobby.

[Tim Friedy]

I've had this for 15 years. Actually one of my first snakes I've ever used for self immunization. And disclaimer, do not try this at home. It's very dangerous. I'm very immune. That's why I can do this.

[Anna Sale]

That immunity, that's the point. To hopefully keep people safer from snake bites. And it's working. So I wanted to know more about this guy. I want to kind of orient you to my relationship with snakes, so you know how I'm coming at this. I grew up in West Virginia. I can remember as a kid, one of our neighbors got bit by a copperhead. And it was sort of, you know, I don't think I was told directly as a kid, but I picked up on it. And secretly, I think for years when I was in like elementary school, I would run and jump to get on my bed, so my feet weren't right next to the bed because I had this idea that a snake could be under the bed and come out and get me. I do not really like snakes. I run into them. You know, I don't avoid snake habitat. I go hiking where there are rattlesnakes. Like I've run into a rattlesnake with my dogs, but it's not exciting for me. I am married to a guy who as a kid learned how to catch snakes and would catch copperheads as part of camp when he was in camp in North Carolina. And we have two little girls. And when we're on family hikes now, even if a snake kind of goes across the trail, he will leave the trail to go find it, snatch it, catch it from behind the head and bring it over to us so we can all look at it. So I appreciate snake guys. I am not a snake appreciator myself. So what I want to kind of get understand about you is like just the mix of motivations to start handling poisonous snakes and snakes.

[Tim Friedy]

Not poisonous. Venomous snakes.

[Anna Sale]

Venomous. Tell me the difference.

[Tim Friedy]

Poison is ingested to where venomous is either through a fang or a stinger.

[Anna Sale]

Okay, so poisonous is just incorrect.

[Tim Friedy]

Poisonous is incorrect. Although there is one poisonous snake, it's also venomous at the same time.

[Anna Sale]

That's if you, like, eat it or something.

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah, it emits a poison out of its back, but it also has fangs. So it's still venomous. It's both. Only once.

[Anna Sale]

Where's that snake live?

[Tim Friedy]

Over in Asia.

[Anna Sale]

Okay. Have you, like going back when you think of yourself as a kid, have you always been a snake, a snake person?

[Tim Friedy]

1973, I was 5 years old, and that was my first garter snake bite.

[Anna Sale]

Oh, it was a bite.

[Tim Friedy]

Yep. That's kind of what kicked it off. I cried and was afraid.

[Anna Sale]

And so it bit you. Did it leave a mark? Like, what? Was it just alarming that this thing that you thought was like a.

[Tim Friedy]

Cool. Yeah. All snakes have teeth and they're sharp.

[Anna Sale]

Huh.

[Tim Friedy]

So it always hurts. There's no way around it. Even a garter snake hurts. So it did. You know, I was just a little kid and I was afraid because they can have up to 100 little teeth, and that hurts. It's like 100 needles going in.

[Anna Sale]

Do you remember, were you alone when you got bit or were you with family?

[Tim Friedy]

I was with my parents.

[Anna Sale]

You were with your parents and were as. As you were raised with, like, nature and animals, were they like, you know, were they pick up that snake, see what it does, or were you sort of doing it secretly and then they were like, ah, you just got bit by a snake.

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah. They didn't like it at all because they were afraid of it. They're not really big into science like I am. I'm adopted.

[Anna Sale]

Mm.

[Tim Friedy]

So I don't know my real parents. They do come from an academia background, but when I grew up, I grew up in a religious. I'll say a cult, because that's exactly what it was. I don't pull no punches. And I just always bothered me. You know, they looked at the world different than I did because I was adopted, and I just never bought into it. So there was. There was always. You know, my dad's saying, tim, get away from reptiles, or, tim, don't inject venom into yourself. What are you doing? You're not going to make any money at it. Yeah. I mean, things changed in the future, but that's just how I grew up with it. They looked at the world differently than I did. And even back before, I didn't even know what science was. I understood it early, clear as day.

[Anna Sale]

Understood what?

[Tim Friedy]

That religion's stupid and God doesn't exist. I'm not gonna. I don't. I don't creep up it, man. When you go to a school and you go to a chemistry class and then next to it's theology, what the is that about, huh? You're not going to get all these animals on an Ark.

[Anna Sale]

I see. So for you, your interest in the natural world was both as you learn more and were a kid kind of soaking up facts and knowledge about science. It was intention with how your parents were trying to raise you. And it reinforced this sense of like, I live in a family that I didn't come from. I'm adopted. I'm not like these people.

[Tim Friedy]

Right, exactly. Always. Which was hard. I mean, it's hard to get over. But I'm very factually based. I want evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If it's not there, it's. So there's always been that division there between my family and I, but my ex wife too was religious and that didn't work out and. But when you're young, you don't really think about it that much. You're just having fun.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah. Did you like, did you go camping as a kid? You spend a lot of time out in nature?

[Tim Friedy]

Oh, yeah. Camped all the time up north. And I sneak home snakes and put them in the basement. My mom would find them and call me at school and have the principal get me back home to take the snakes out of the basement because my mom was freaking out so bad. And that's. And then I had to get rid of everything. And then I'm like, oh, this is not going to work.

[Anna Sale]

So it sounds like from a very young age you were clear about the things you were interested in and you also didn't care about following rules.

[Tim Friedy]

No, absolutely not. No. I'm a very stubborn person. I make my own decisions. I don't expect anybody else to do it. I wouldn't expect you to inject yourself with snake. Boom. I expected myself to do it. So I didn't depend on nobody. I mean, it was either I live or I die. And that's just the way it was, man, for years, you know.

[Anna Sale]

So, okay, I want to get into that more, but I want to understand a little bit more about your kind of coming of age as a kid. And so you're interested in animals, you're interested in science. Would you like, were you reading like adventure books about boys surviving in the wild? Were you reading encyclopedia entries about snakes? Like, how did you feed your interest? Because it wasn't something your family necessarily shared.

[Tim Friedy]

I fed it with Charles Darwin, Sean, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Neil Shubin, and I can name a million more. And I just, I jumped into that hardcore years, years, just to understand why we're here. How old is Earth? How old is the universe? Do we evolve from apes? So I just looked at the basics of it and broke it down kind of at the same time. I was starting to get into si.

[Anna Sale]

Si, or self immunization, is about creating immunity by slowly exposing yourself over time. There are examples from history of people becoming immune from poisons this way. This is one of the theories of how Rasputin survive cyanide poisoning. Other snake handlers and obsessives have also become immune to some venoms before Tim. So he was inspired. It was the kind of maverick endeavor that fascinated him, and it was both rooted in science and outside the establishment. But Tim didn't start the SI process until he was almost 30 years old. After high school, he was starting a family. His plan was to have a career in the military.

[Tim Friedy]

I got in a car accident, broke my ankle, and got discharged.

[Anna Sale]

Oh.

[Tim Friedy]

So then I'm like, oh, crap, that didn't work. Healed up for a year, had the screws taken out of my leg. And two days later after that, I went in and broke my ankle again in basic training.

[Anna Sale]

Oh.

[Tim Friedy]

So I got it discharged again. Honorable so jet. But at that point, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just got back home and I'm like, I couldn't stay in school. I love it now. But, you know, back then, I didn't want to go back to that. For four years, I didn't even know what I wanted to do.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah.

[Tim Friedy]

So I just took odd jobs in

[Anna Sale]

the 80s back in the upper Midwest. Right.

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah. I actually became a window cleaner when I first got married. First time, my kids. And that really helped me with what I do. Because window cleaning in Wisconsin is very hard to do.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah.

[Tim Friedy]

Very cold. Very cold. And I learned to control my fear that way.

[Anna Sale]

Tell me about that. So let's say it's a day in February in Wisconsin.

[Tim Friedy]

That was the exact same month where I learned in February.

[Anna Sale]

Oh, okay. Wow. That's when you started. And you're like, window cleaning, like skyscrapers. Okay. So you are on one of those little benches that kind of goes up the side of a skyscraper. How would you manage your thoughts when you were like, ugh, like, dealing with the risk and the stress and the discomfort. What did you learn when you were first starting to wash windows, about how to do that?

[Tim Friedy]

Well, I just learned to control, obviously, be safe. I was raised in a family, so I had to do it. I didn't have a choice. I had to pay the bills. And just by constantly doing it, I mean, everything is repetition. You know, I call it saddle time. Whether you're hanging up a skyscraper Every day or getting bit by cobras or mambas. Every single day. Whatever it is, the more you do it, the better you get at it.

[Anna Sale]

Saddle time. I've never thought about just like subjecting yourself to snake bites as like a corollary to time in the saddle.

[Tim Friedy]

Well, it's the same thing. Do you know the climber, Alex Honnold?

[Anna Sale]

Uh huh. Yep.

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah.

[Anna Sale]

Who just got to the top of the Taipei skyscraper?

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah, absolutely. Big fan of his. He does exactly what I do. He has no ropes, I have no ropes. He climbs. I can't, but I get bit. He controls his mind going up. I control it through climbing, cleaning windows, going down. Yeah. So he does exactly what I do and just to control that fear. I mean it's the same thing. It's just a different. It's a different sport, it's a different environment.

[Anna Sale]

Do you think of your. Do you think of yourself as somebody who like, likes chasing adrenaline?

[Tim Friedy]

A little bit. But it makes me feel good. But it makes me feel good because I know I'm saving lives.

[Anna Sale]

So tell me about like beginning to build that objective for yourself. Like how, how did you, like when did it become a sort of mission for you just to be like, oh, I can be a part of working with these animals. I'm not. I can handle my fear enough that I can do something that will help people. Like where did, where did that come from? Did somebody get bitten by a snake that you knew and you and had a bad outcome? Or like where did that idea come from?

[Tim Friedy]

Well, I have a lot of compassion for people, man. I don't care what color you are. I don't even care if we're religious or not. It's not about that. You know, it's people dying. And if I can stop that and change that puzzle that hasn't been changed in 125 years, since Albert Calmetti, then what's the point of living? And I didn't want to be a lawyer, I didn't want to be a doctor. I didn't really want any money. I didn't chase any of that type of stuff. I knew I could push myself for the betterment of humanity. And that's exactly what I did.

[Anna Sale]

So when you start thinking about, I think I can experiment on my own body to, to maybe make something that's going to change. Change how? Anti venom is used around the world. When you started telling people in your life and Wisconsin friends, like I have an idea, like what was the reaction?

[Tim Friedy]

Oh man, everything. Why are you trying to kill yourself? We don't have dangerous snakes in Wisconsin that kill people. What you're doing is going to just break up your family. You're going to kill yourself. I mean everything.

[Anna Sale]

But Tim found a community of like minded people. They'd sit around and talk about science and animals. One of those people was a childhood friend. Chuck.

[Tim Friedy]

Best friend. Grew up with them. He's exactly like I am. We talk for 15, 20 hours straight sometimes. Grew up with them in high school. His girlfriend, which I called her the wife because she was the wife.

[Anna Sale]

I see. His partner.

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah, she. Karen Yamasakowitz. And she was phenomenal. And I told them what I was gonna do. She thought it was stupid, but she was a vet tech. She gave me my first set of needles, which I'm looking at. There's one right there. My first set of needles to use.

[Anna Sale]

Wait, so she thought it was a dumb idea, but she supplied you with supplies?

[Tim Friedy]

She knew I was gonna do it.

[Anna Sale]

Huh.

[Tim Friedy]

And then she gave me my first needle needles on a Tuesday and then died Thursday with her. Her dog. Chuck's kids were in the car. They didn't die, but they were in comas the whole summer at that point. I was a fucking mess, man. I. Cause I haven't even started yet. She passed. Chuck was just gone for obvious reasons.

[Anna Sale]

It was a car accident.

[Tim Friedy]

Car accident? Yeah. Nothing bad, just. It was in Indiana and she just veered to the other lane and head on collision. And that was it.

[Anna Sale]

Tim took Caren's death hard. He would stare at the needles she'd given him and a couple of months after she died, he started using them. He said it made him feel connected to her. His plan was to build up immunity slowly by diluting snake venom and then injecting it. By that time, he had a small collection of snakes that he bought from friends in Florida. And over time, he made the snake venom less diluted, working his way up to tolerating a bite. The needle method was working, but with his grief, he became impatient and reckless.

[Tim Friedy]

My head wasn't in the game. I would turn to raise kids. Karen's dead, dog's dead, kids are in comas.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah.

[Tim Friedy]

And I just didn't feel like doing it because you really have to have a strong head with it and I wasn't there. So. September 12th after 9 11.

[Anna Sale]

September 12th. The day after 9 11.

[Tim Friedy]

Day after 9 11. September 12th, yeah. Took two cobra bites. The first one I was fine with. I've done it before, but I took another one an hour later. I didn't have any immunity after that, because all my antibodies were bound to one cobra. The second bite took me out completely. Ended up in ICU for four days. I had adevenin, but it didn't get to the hospital. I had to use the zoos. So I had to call the zoo back and apologize and say, screwed up. Here's the deal. It wasn't suicide. I'll pay you back for the antivenom. I'll give you my antivenom. And my ex wife Beth said, you either fix it or quit because we can't keep doing this. It's when you go down from a cobra bite or any bad snake bite, it's bad.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah. Pain also, right?

[Tim Friedy]

Oh, God. Yeah. Well, when I passed out, I just. I didn't know. The ambulance came and you said you

[Anna Sale]

told the zoo this. I wasn't trying to hurt myself. I wasn't trying to die by suicide. Was there part of you that felt willing to take that risk that you, I mean, you clearly could have died, and you're doing this intentionally to see what happens when you do this very dangerous thing to your body?

[Tim Friedy]

Well, they thought it was dead because it affects your peripheral nervous system, which means you can't do this. You can't move. But I can think.

[Anna Sale]

So you're like paralyzed inside your body.

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah. It affects your diaphragm. Can't breathe, and you're fully paralyzed. But you can think because it doesn't affect your central nervous system, just your peripheral. Big, big, big, big difference. So I was laying there for four days and they were going to basically just bag me up and throw me in the garbage. But I could start to move my finger a little bit, and the wife recognized that and said, I don't think he's going to die. Let's give him some time. They gave me six vials of anti venom and I pulled out of it. But then I had an interview with the entire medical staff and explained myself, which was hard to do because I could barely talk. They didn't understand what I was doing. And I remember this cool black nurse, she looked at me, she goes, I know this sucks, but you're going to be famous someday. True story. I said, famous. I'm half dead here. I'm trying to get home to get yelled at by the wife.

[Anna Sale]

And sure, shit, yeah, now, Tim, I am a wife. I'm raising two kids. I am trying to imagine what I would want to say to my husband if he landed himself in the ICU by intentionally deciding to expose himself to venom. That's deadly. What were Your conversations with your wife, like when you were starting this and when you messed up.

[Tim Friedy]

It was tough at first, but I have to be honest, she was really cool. He helped me film a lot. I kept snakes different places. She was nice about that. She was actually super cool. And I'm not just saying that in case she hears me and I get in trouble, but she was really supportive.

[Anna Sale]

When you say cool, she, like, she got that this was. This was a way that this was something that gave your life meaning and it was important to you. Even though it came with risks, you

[Tim Friedy]

know, that's the only thing I was good at. Because I didn't go to school. I didn't. Like I said, I didn't have an interest in doing anything academia wise. It's different now, but back then I was just getting out of school and I had to raise a family and had to work and I didn't want to go back in that environment because I didn't know what I wanted to do. I honestly didn't. And I'm glad I didn't go back and get my degree because there's no university that's going to hire me or museum or zoo. They've told me this personally with what I do.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah, they don't want to insure you.

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah.

[Anna Sale]

You are a liability.

[Tim Friedy]

I am, but a bigger liability is for people that don't do it and then die and have to go to the hospital. News, anime. I'm actually not a liability. I'm the safest thing you can put in that zoo.

[Anna Sale]

Good point. Good point.

[Tim Friedy]

So I'm glad it didn't work out because it gave me the freedom to do things on my own and make my own rules. And that's just the way I am.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah. How old were your kids when you were in the icu?

[Tim Friedy]

My youngest wasn't born yet. My oldest, Stephen, who's now 29, was five years old when he saw me just collapse. He was there with me, along with my neighbor Pat. And if Pat wasn't there, I'd be dead. Because he's the one who called 91 1. I saw what he got bit by. Boom. Take him to freighter. Call the zoo. Get the antivenom. Although I had. I had the antivenom in my fridge, but nobody knew about it, never got there. So I'm like, oh, man. I mean, in hindsight I'm glad I did it. Cause it pissed me off and I never wanted to do it again.

[Anna Sale]

What you didn't want to do again was die. You didn't want to die, you were still gonna expose yourself to snake venom that could harm you, but you were gonna do it in a different way. After that experience in the icu, is that what changed?

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah. What I did is I got really big into the chemistry of it. And what I do now, right over here is I dry the venom out. And you want to dry the venom out and weigh it out. I did it to the milligram back there. Now I do it to the microgram. I have my shit so dialed in on how to do it to the microgram, did I even know 6 milligrams is 6000 micrograms. I calculate all this out on a spreadsheet. When to do it, how much to do it. Then I listen to my body. If I damage myself, I have to stop back up and redo it. If I don't, I can keep on going.

[Anna Sale]

Coming up, Tim tries every avenue to get support for his efforts and attention.

[Tim Friedy]

I reached out to the President. I reached out to Warren Buffett. I reached out to.

[Anna Sale]

What was Warren Buffett gonna do?

[Tim Friedy]

Tim? He's got money. He sent me a letter.

[Anna Sale]

What did the letter say?

[Tim Friedy]

I'm not gonna help you. Well, fuck off. And I'm like, ah, cool. I still got a Warren Buffett letter. I was reaching for the stars, man. Man. You know, just to find anybody that could help me.

[Anna Sale]

As we were making this episode, I thought back on a few other weird ones we've made over the years about other people who put their bodies in extremes of situations to observe what happens. One was a 95 year old British gentleman, a scientist who experimented on himself when he was studying the mechanics of erections. And that science went on to shape the development of erectile dysfunction drugs. You can hear my interview with him in an episode in our show Notes. It was part of a series we called Hard that We Made in 2022, around the 25th anniversary of the introduction of Viagra. And another conversation I found myself thinking back on was my interview with extreme athlete Jeb Corliss, who's a BASE jumper and wingsuit flyer. We've linked to that episode from back in 2016. I remember thinking, wow, that guy's sense of risk and reward is calibrated a little differently than mine. And for an upcoming episode, we want to hear your stories about considering trade offs as we hear about side effects of medical interventions. Ones you were warned about and ones you were not.

[Listener Sharing Story]

I'm one of those people who can only drink seltzer. I don't drink still water. It's kind of a problem. I can be incredibly thirsty and I'll have to trudge down six flights of stairs from my apartment to go buy a can of seltzer from the bodega instead of drinking from the tap. About 10 years ago, the unthinkable happened. All of the seltzer in New York City had gone flat. It would open a can and it would taste like nothing. I was so confused and I started to talk about it to everyone. I came up with this theory that because it had been a particularly cold winter, that there must have been a big freeze and all the seltzers on the trucks had frozen and then melted and then lost their fizz in the process. Nobody knew what I was talking about, so I took my theory to Google and started researching and it didn't take long for some Reddit threads to mention that a migraine drug I had recently been put on had the mind boggling side effect of being unable to perceive carbonation.

[Sponsor Representative]

What?

[Listener Sharing Story]

It also had some other weird side effects like brain fog and exhaustion. So it didn't take that long for me to stop taking it. And then I was able to get the bubble taste back, but I had no idea that carbonation was even a taste or something you could perceive. If I needed more appreciation for seltzer, I definitely have it Now.

[Anna Sale]

We want to hear your stories about taking care of your health and the trade offs that come with it. Maybe you've been incredibly excited about starting a GLP1 or a drug to help you with mental health issues or addiction. And while it's helping you in one sense, it's making other parts of your life more difficult like sleep or relationships. How do you decide what's worth it? Record a voice memo and send it to us about side effects from medical treatments for your mental or physical health. Did you feel properly warned by your doctor? How are you talking about it? Record a voice memo and email it to [e-mail]. Okay, I need you to know here's what it feels like laying down on my birch mattress. There's this top layer of give where I feel held, and then just under that is exactly, exactly the right kind of firmness that I need to feel totally supported and not like I'm going to wake up with some weird new back soreness that I didn't see coming. 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I want all my listeners to enjoy a deep restful night's sleep with a new mattress from Birch. Go to birchliving.com DSM for their memorial Day sale and exclusive for death, sex and money listeners. You'll get 27% off sitewide. That's birchliving.com DSM for 27% off sitewide. Birch living.com DSM okay sun exposure. It's unavoidable and I want to protect my skin, my family's skin. But it can be so hard to know the best way to do that while also taking care of all of our sensitive skin. Blue Lizard Sensitive mineral sunscreens were made specifically for sensitive skin and I use it too. Their mineral sunscreens provide head to toe broad spectrum sun protection from harmful UV rays with up to 80 minutes of water resistance. So it's the ultimate choice as we move into more fun in the sun season. And if you like me, are having to regularly help a small person get sunscreen on, it's easy to apply Blue Lizard because they have these sprays and they also have these sunscreen stick applicators that my kids love to use. I actually have this area right by my front door where we keep all of this sunscreen so we don't forget when we're heading out. That little stick is very popular with my kids. I tend to grab the Blue Lizard lotion and put it all over my face. And here's another thing that's nice about their sunscreen. It's mineral sunscreen, but it doesn't make my face have that weird ghostly white look. It blends right in. Go to bluelizardsunscreen.com to find out more information about which sunscreens are right for you or your family and where you can buy in store. Or visit the Blue Lizard Australian Sunscreen store on Amazon and As Blue Lizard says, be fearless in the sun. When I think about the utility bills that come every month, most of them I don't have much control over. But there's one monthly bill where you have choices. Your wireless bill. You can avoid crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees and quote unquote free perks that actually cost more in the long run. By switching to Mint Mobile, they have plans that start at 15 bucks a month. And all plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your own phone and number, activate with an ESIM in minutes and start saving immediately. With no long term contracts, you can ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. I have spent some time on Mint Mobile's site and they make it easy to look at their coverage areas and plan options to see how much you could save by making the switch. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] DSM that's mintmobile.com DSM upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan option options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. This is Death, Sex and Money from Slate. I'm Anna Sale. Tim Friedy zoomed me from his office. It's a place where he has spent a lot of time over the years. Behind him, I could see diagrams and books and framed letters from scientists like Dr. Barry Marshall, a Nobel Prize winner who also experimented on himself. He eventually proved that most stomach ulcers are caused by bacteria, not stress. When it came time to figure out how to build immunity for himself, Tim was largely self taught. He did consult scientific journals and textbooks and the small community of people who also did what he did.

[Tim Friedy]

So I talked to those people, but

[Anna Sale]

mainly books and I want to be able to picture the snake collection. You had to have to keep doing this. So these are. Are there like a dozen snakes in a room in your house in this period?

[Tim Friedy]

Like oh no, I had about 60, 70 snakes, 67. I had a lab that was bomb proof in my basement. Okay, nobody could get in, get out. I had the key. If a snake did get out of a cage, it's not going to get out of the room.

[Anna Sale]

And how did you pay for that snake collection as you're getting them working

[Tim Friedy]

as many jobs they possibly could?

[Anna Sale]

Huh? How much would a. Would an exotic snake like a cobra. Like, what's the going rate?

[Tim Friedy]

A lot of 100, $200. Black Mamba, four or $500. And back then, that was expensive for me because I'm trying to raise a family.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah, well, especially if you have 60 or 70.

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah, I had a lot. It was actually too much because I would work, come home, spend time with the family, go downstairs, clean. I was breeding rats. I did that, too. To feed the snakes.

[Anna Sale]

To feed the snakes, huh?

[Tim Friedy]

And come back up, read a book to the kids, and then crash, get up in the morning and do it again. So it became too much.

[Anna Sale]

Can you walk me through on a day when you know you're gonna let yourself be bitten by a venomous snake that would kill people that haven't done what you've done to your body? Like, how do you. How do you prepare? Like, where are you? Do you have rules about who else needs to be in the room, how to do it safely, like an emergency plan? Like, how do you prepare for that event?

[Tim Friedy]

Well, what I normally did is, like, let's say I'm getting bit by a black mamba in two weeks. What I do two weeks before is I'll hit that needle hard. I'll take a lethal dose of black mamba or taipan venom. And that way I know my immunity is primed and peaked. Fresh venom or dried doesn't matter. And. And for two weeks, I would just kind of sit on it, think about it, plan out. I have to do it on a Friday night because I know I'm going to be swelling up from fingertips sometimes in my neck almost every time with a bite. And that one it did. So I couldn't go to work on the Monday, so I did it on a Friday night so I'd have two days to heal and go back to work at the factory.

[Anna Sale]

What kind of factory were you working at at the time?

[Tim Friedy]

Oshkosh truck. It built military defense trucks. I was on the assembly line. I did that for years and went through a lot of pain with bites and working at the company, and you're

[Anna Sale]

doing work that you have to use your body so you know you're going to swell up over a weekend, and then you've got to use your body when you.

[Tim Friedy]

That's why we do it. Like, on a Friday night, the guys from work would come over or whatever and get bitten. They'd be swollen Saturday, Sunday, pretty much just immobilized for two days. But that's with mambas and taipans. Rattlesnakes and other vipers are completely different. Like my rattlesnake bites, my western diamondback bites. I was out for a month because the venom's completely different. I see mamba venom's different than rattlesnake venom. 100% different.

[Anna Sale]

Tim kept doing this for more than a decade. He'd send letters to scientists hoping to get on their radar, but he wasn't hearing back. And then in 2013, he put up his first video on YouTube, hoping to get people's attention that way.

[Tim Friedy]

One night I just hit the submit button. I just hit it and that really, really, really went crazy. Discovery Channel, Science Channel, Nat Geo twice, Ripley's.

[Anna Sale]

You're getting calls from journalists and from nature documentary makers and people who want to come see what you're doing.

[Tim Friedy]

Yep. Met some famous people here and there with it and I thought that was going to launch it too. I did a film with Henry Rounds on that Geo that was cool.

[Anna Sale]

That's rock and roll.

[Tim Friedy]

It was, it was cool. I was so happy. Got into contact with Nicholas Cage. I've never talked to him, but I talked to his personal assistants back then. He gets a new one every year and I gave him all my stuff and I'm like, oh, honey, this is it. You know, we're gonna be able to buy a house and retire. And he never got back to me because he just. All my stuff got lost. I sent them. So things like that, it's kind of a up and down. You get excited, you think things are gonna change and then boom, crash. Not always, but a lot of times. So I just kept filming and then it just, I mean, it was, it was non stop.

[Anna Sale]

You keep kind of demonstrating. You've become kind of almost like a. I don't know, like you're a. You're a. You're like a circus act for some of these media. Like they're coming to see you do something extreme on camera and you're not being remunerated for it, you're not being paid, you're just being.

[Tim Friedy]

Exactly. Yeah. I felt I was becoming like a YouTube joke. Even though I did a lot of big films, I wasn't published at the highest level I wanted to be published on. So I didn't have a lot to stand on.

[Anna Sale]

When did your marriage end? How old were you?

[Tim Friedy]

When did it end? It's been about 15 years.

[Anna Sale]

Huh. So you're in your early 40s?

[Tim Friedy]

16 years. Early 40s, yeah. Everything at that point was just kind of collapsing down because I had no funding behind me, my job sucked. We were broke. We lost our house in foreclosure. So the wife took the kids and moved and I stayed in an abandoned house, foreclosed on while still filming.

[Anna Sale]

You kept at it?

[Tim Friedy]

I kept at it. I kept my snakes. We'd filmed there. It wasn't pretty, but I knew I had to keep going on so I would keep my snakes there. I mean, a little heated room in the back because everything was turned off, so I had to have a propane heater. It was just a shit show.

[Anna Sale]

So you all lost your family home and was money, stress, your wife moved out with the kids, you said. I knew I had to keep doing it. Why? Why did you have to keep doing it?

[Tim Friedy]

Because I was in too deep, you know, I was already in years and years, you know, doing it for the most part. And I'm like, if I quit now, why did I even start doing it?

[Anna Sale]

If I quit after all this time and effort and sacrifice and risk, then it's worth nothing. Sa. This episode is brought to you by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Decisions about our health care are some of the most personal we make and everyone deserves care that is safe, supportive and non judgmental. Planned Parenthood health centers are there in those moments providing unbiased information and high quality sexual and reproductive health care. Today, your donation, whether it be $20 or $200, will support Birth control, cancer screenings, abortion care, sex education and more that millions of people rely on. This is how Planned Parenthood and their supporters fight back. They show up for others and for what they believe in. So Planned Parenthood asks if you can give give today. Go to plannedparenthood.org defend your gift will protect, access, compassion and care for everyone who needs it. Sometimes you know you're in a new life phase because things are changing. You've got a new job, a new child, you're having to move somewhere new. But sometimes your body shows you that things are changing. For me, that can be with changes in my hair, shedding, thinning, a reminder that there are ways that I am changing in ways I am not in charge of. It can be stressful, mysterious, if you're noticing something similar. Nutrafol supports hair health from within and has a number of different formulas to try depending on your priorities or life phase. There's Nutrafol for women, women's vegan, women's balance for women over 45 postpartum and men's. It's a daily supplement and it comes in a very good looking canister that's so pretty you can keep it out on the counter so you remember to take them. Nutrafol is the 1 dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the 1 hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Nutrafol's hair growth supplements are peer reviewed, NSF certified for sport and clinically tested. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See visibly thicker, stronger, faster. Growing hair in three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and enter the promo code DSM. That's nutrafol.com spelled N U T R A F O L.com with the promo code DSM. By 2018, Tim Friedy was working odd jobs and getting exhausted with snake bites. He was living on his own. His kids had moved far away. He decided it was time to retire his scientific project.

[Tim Friedy]

I was washing dishes, man, and I was following my kids around because I wanted to see them because they moved an hour up north and I never saw them. So my girlfriend and I just said, I want to see my kids, man. I don't care what I do. 2018, when I retired, it was my last black mama bite and my last water cobra injection I did for Outside magazine. And water cobra is one of the most venomous snakes in the world. I did that. And they just said, you know, at that point, I'm just like, I need to take a break from it.

[Anna Sale]

Did you hang on to snakes in your house?

[Tim Friedy]

No. Pretty much I got rid of everything in 2018. A lot of stuff I had was old and it died. And I just didn't want to replace and spend the money. But it cost me thousands to rebuild everything. And I'm just like, nah, not gonna do it.

[Anna Sale]

Did you notice that walking away from exposing your body to that risk, like, did you. Did you get depressed not having that kind of those events to build up to?

[Tim Friedy]

Yes.

[Anna Sale]

Huh.

[Tim Friedy]

Really depressed, because that was my entire life.

[Anna Sale]

Tim tried to move on, and then a year later, he got a call from a scientist who'd heard what Tim had been up to. He wanted to study Tim's blood. That scientist was Dr. Jacob Glanville, or Jake, as Tim calls him. He's the founder and CEO of a biotech company called scentivax. That company is trying to develop a universal antivenom. And Dr. Glanville had been looking for someone whose blood might be a good starting point. At first, Jake told news sources he had a humble goal of finding Someone like a clumsy snake researcher who'd been bitten a couple of times. But then he heard about Tim. And when Tim got Jake's call, he told him, I've been waiting for this call for a long time.

[Tim Friedy]

It felt like I won the lottery because I felt those things before. The Nicolas Cage stuff and other famous people that I met, I thought they maybe helped me out. I didn't want anything from them. I didn't even care if they gave it to the lab just to get help. When I got that phone call and he told me what I was going to make, I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Like thousand times more than I've ever made with health benefits, company stocks that are, I'll never be able to spend because every employee gets those.

[Anna Sale]

Are you an employee?

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah, Director of cryptology.

[Anna Sale]

Uh huh.

[Tim Friedy]

And I don't have a degree. And I was mad at them because I told him not to give me a title because I don't like titles. And they go, well you have to give you a title to make a look, otherwise it's not going to look good. But the caption underneath the picture says some funny things about it. But I always, I'm always clear with that because I don't have a degree and I don't think it's fair to the people that do that. I have a director of herpetology, I don't consider myself a herpetologist, I consider myself a vaccinologist.

[Anna Sale]

That can be self taught.

[Tim Friedy]

That's what I do. Because if somebody has a degree in herpetology, they're going to know more than I do. And in 2019, I never went back to work again. I don't consider myself or what I do now work because I read and study. To me that's not work, that's fun. I physically never had to go back and do any of these crap jobs. So Jake saved my life. You know, I, I had to be careful who I told. I told my kids and my ex wife, my girlfriend, my parents, things like that, some close friends. And almost every one of them said, God damn, you did it. Every one of them.

[Anna Sale]

And I'm like, yeah, even your parents?

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah. When I was in the front cover of New York Times because of this, I went to my dad's house. They just not just retired, but they just moved. Been retired for 15, 20 years. And he always said, it's not going to work, you're not going to make any money. I don't get it. So when I gave him that and it had the whole article in there. He was speechless. He didn't even know what to say. So that for me was like, oh, the best thing ever. It's like, dad, here, look at this. He's like, in New York Times, Trump page, amongst others, the Wall Street Journal, a million more. And he's like, I can't believe it. I said, yeah, dad, persistence.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah. I don't know what happens when you feel big emotions. Like, did you ever cry?

[Tim Friedy]

Oh, yeah, totally. I didn't cry in front of him. He's. He's a inner city cop. You don't want to do that. But it was just a weird feeling because, I mean, those are things you dream about. I want to get published and I can tell my parents and friends, hey, look what I've been doing for the last two decades, whatever. And then it's solidified and justified and their reactions in their faces that I could see were just worth a million dollars. It was so cool.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah.

[Tim Friedy]

I proved my immunity, I proved I got it published. I proved I could beat the bites and I don't have to work anymore.

[Anna Sale]

And it may lead to a universal anti venom, hopefully.

[Tim Friedy]

But you have to understand that this paper is only our first paper. But our second paper is going to come quicker and faster because once they're published in like cell press, they know what's going on. They know you're legit.

[Anna Sale]

Are you an author on those papers?

[Tim Friedy]

They didn't put me as an author. They had to take me off because I'm so controversial. And I agreed to that because I don't care about that. I want to get it in the field. But what they did do at the end of the paper, if you read it, they acknowledged me and put my name in there. And that's why I've been doing so many interviews. They said, thanks, Tim, for your blood and your knowledge. It wasn't for you, we wouldn't be doing this. So I don't care about that. It sucks a little bit because I did the schematic on it and I gave him my blood. I mean, I pretty much built this. But for me it's more important that it gets into the field to where if I said no, Jake, my name has to be on it, otherwise I won't do it. Well, that's a move. Even if I wasn't on it at all, if it still gets in the field, I'm still as part of it. And I know that in my heart,

[Anna Sale]

Tim, I want to be able to picture, just understand when you. When did you and Your girlfriend get together?

[Tim Friedy]

She met me 10 years ago because of the history channels, Stanley. Superhumans. She's.

[Anna Sale]

She sees you doing crazy stuff on her television. She's like, I gotta meet them, man. Yeah.

[Tim Friedy]

And she was an hour north of me, and she liked reptiles. Big into reptiles. She's very much like me. Hates Trump, hates religion, no offense. Facts are the facts, man. And so we just got along really well. Are you.

[Anna Sale]

You all share a household. You all live together?

[Tim Friedy]

Yeah, it's us. Two cats, two dogs, some fish and a turtle and a frog. No snakes, no mambas, no taipans.

[Anna Sale]

And Tim, this is a personal question, so you can tell me if you don't want to answer it, but when you're. You're in your later 50s. How's retirement looking for you now?

[Tim Friedy]

Oh, beautiful.

[Anna Sale]

Huh?

[Tim Friedy]

I'm not saying I'm rich, but I can pay the bills. I can go out to dinner. I can take my kids to go see fun Halloween stuff or watch football, stuff like that. Not have to worry about it. For me, that's rich. I can't dive with it, so I don't need all that. So I try to burn as much as I can for fun.

[Anna Sale]

I'm wondering, as somebody who was examining how your body worked for so many decades and responding and how it responded to venom as you're aging. Like, are you. Are you somebody who's really tracking different metrics about how your health is?

[Tim Friedy]

Do you? Yeah, I have a blood pressure monitor. One day I'll do a vitamin shake with 2 cups of milk, 500 calories. The next day, break it up into a protein shake. 500 calories with milk. I'm on a very strict diet. My girlfriend makes me do that. Avocados. She cooks, I clean, so. And it's just because you get older, you know, after 50, your body just can't do it no more, you know? So the better you take care of yourself. The more I can hike, the more I can fish, the more I can be outside. I don't do it to break any records. I just do it to be healthy as I possibly can. I'll have a cigarette once in a while, here or there.

[Anna Sale]

I was. That's what I was, like, looking around, I'm like, where are your vices? A cigarette.

[Tim Friedy]

I only do like three a day. That's all I do. I cut back on that a lot. My girlfriend smokes, so she'll drag me out there, but not like I used to.

[Anna Sale]

When you're hike. When you're hiking and a snake crosses your path, do you try to go catch it?

[Tim Friedy]

I don't try. I do. You do. I freak out. I'll see a garter snake, the most common snake in the world, and absolutely blow a load in my pants, man. I will just go crazy and I'll pick it up, put it down, and I'm like, man, I shouldn't be this excited about this garter snake. But I am. So I still have it in me. Goes back to 1973.

[Anna Sale]

I'm so glad. I'm so glad.

[Tim Friedy]

I get more excited now looking for stuff when I did, when I was little, because of what I did.

[Anna Sale]

Yeah.

[Tim Friedy]

So now when I look at the snake, I can talk to the snake and say, thanks, man. It's because of you I'm here right now. Wasn't for you, I wouldn't be sitting here right now. So I know they can't hear that, but that's cool. Yeah, it's cool.

[Anna Sale]

That is Tim Friedy, who is now the director of herbatology at Syntivax scintovax is working toward a universal snakebite venom, hoping to get there by 2028. The next stop, a real world trial on dogs and cats in Australia, which starts this November. This episode was produced by Zooey Ajulet. The rest of the Death, Sex and Money show team includes Andrew Dunn and Cameron Drewes. Daisy Rosario is our senior supervising producer. Mia Lobel is the head of Slate Podcast, and Hilary Fry is Slate's editor in chief. You can support the production of our show by joining our membership program, Death, Sex and Money. Plus, you'll get bonus episodes of our show and other shows from Slate like Dakota Ring and How To. And you also get to listen to Slate's full podcast catalog ad free. And you'll be supporting conversations like this on Death, Sex and Money. Do you hear anything like this anywhere else? You can subscribe directly to Debt, Sex and Money plus on our show pages, on Apple Podcast or on Spotify or just go to Slate to get access wherever you listen. Our theme music is by the Reverend John DeLore and Steve Lewis. If you're new to our show, welcome. We are glad you're here. We're on Instagram at Death Sex Money. I write a weekly newsletter. Subscribe to receive [e-mail] and you can reach our show team anytime with voice memos, pep talks, questions, show ideas of your own. Our email is deathsexmoneylate.com we love hearing from you. I'm Anna Sale and this is Death Snakes and money from Slate.

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[Sponsor Representative]

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