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From crying alone in Bangalore to panic attacks at Gamescom, this is a brutally real look at what it actually costs to chase a vision.

Mishka Katkoff (Deconstructor of Fun) and Joseph Kim (Lila Games) reunite for the rawest, most honest founder-to-founder conversation you’ll hear this year. They dive deep into the sacrifices, suffering, and stress of building companies from scratch, away from the LinkedIn highlight reels.

5:00 – Suffering vs. Sacrifice: Is Work Just Avoidance?

10:45 – Why Founders Trade Family for Vision

15:30 – Would You Let Your Kids Follow Your Path?

20:00 – Lessons from Building (and Breaking) a Startup

27:30 – The #1 Mistake Founders Make: The Team

31:50 – Fractional Work, Focus, and Saying No

36:30 – Redefining Success Without Losing Yourself

41:00 – What a Billion-Dollar Exit Really Means

47:15 – How We’ll Judge Ourselves on Our Deathbeds

52:00 – Life in Phases: When to Grind, When to Let Go

56:00 – AI, Ambition, and the New Have vs. Have-Nots

1:02:00 – The Hidden Cost: Panic Attacks, Crying, and Total Burnout

1:12:00 – What’s Next for Mishka and Joe