Deep Cover Presents: Snowball
Episode 5: Black Widow
Release Date: December 1, 2025
Host: Ollie Wards
Overview
In the fifth episode of the Snowball series, Ollie Wards tracks the aftermath of his family’s disastrous run-in with the Californian conwoman, Leslie Mnookian. The episode, titled "Black Widow," centers on Leslie’s next chapter in California, where she repeats her patterns of deception and financial manipulation. Ollie, joined by his brother Simon, meets with Leslie’s more recent victims—including her former partner “Cameron”—and traces her ongoing impact on those around her. Ultimately, the investigation moves toward a possible face-to-face confrontation.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Introduction: Chasing the "Black Widow" (04:45)
- Ollie describes Leslie’s dualistic world: one of “fantasy,” where she invents characters and stories about herself, and another in which real people are drawn into her cons.
- Ollie and Simon travel to Paso Robles, California, to investigate Leslie's actions post-New Zealand, setting a lighthearted tone with "True Detective" aspirations in a muscle car.
2. Meeting Cameron: The Next Victim (07:33)
- Cameron (pseudonym), the real owner of the restaurant Phenomenal, recounts his relationship with Leslie.
- Cameron describes Leslie's charisma and how their romance quickly escalated to cohabitation and business partnership:
- “She seemed to indicate that she was worldly, adventurous and wanted to have the zest for life and just enjoy life.” (08:19)
- Cameron’s friends were skeptical, noting Leslie was "not his usual type."
3. Signs of Deceit: The Restaurant Scheme (16:29)
- Leslie leverages her purported hospitality experience to convince Cameron to invest heavily in starting “Phenomenal."
- Leslie misrepresents her business contributions and repeatedly tells others it's "her" restaurant, despite investing no money.
- Cameron uncovers erratic, suspicious financial behavior:
- “She went and basically told everybody that it was her restaurant. And most people found out much later that she didn't even put a penny in there.” (17:03)
- Leslie forges documents and receipts (e.g., faked PG&E bills), triggering debt and vendor complaints.
- Cameron discovers forged checks—one for $30,850 made out to cash, others for payments to Leslie’s father.
4. Emotional Fallout and Coping (21:07)
- Cameron describes the emotional and financial devastation:
- “I didn't lose my house, but I was close. I did lose my car. ... I just need to figure out a way to survive.” (21:30)
- Despite evidence of fraud, Cameron decides not to pursue legal action, feeling it is too painful and preferring to move on.
5. Processing Betrayal: Family and Friends' Reactions (22:37)
- Cameron is open to helping Ollie and Greg find closure or "help someone else have closure."
- Cameron’s partner describes his struggle to process the trauma, having previously pushed it “under the rug.”
- Cameron notes how the experience permanently altered his ability to trust:
- “Trust your employees, trust your people, but verify. … I definitely don't have as much trust for the people in my lives.” (24:34)
6. Cameron’s Daughter’s Perspective (26:31)
- As a child in the house, she found Leslie initially fun but soon experienced emotional manipulation and verbal outbursts:
- “She started yelling, you did that on purpose, you fucking manipulative bitch.” (26:57)
- Leslie’s remarks induced lifelong insecurities, e.g., about body hair.
- She reflects: “A part of me believes that she’s just a really broken person that just has a lot of issues and just can’t help but to wreak havoc wherever she goes.” (28:28)
7. The Pattern Repeats (29:24)
- Ollie recognizes the cyclical nature of Leslie’s cons—opportunities squandered, fake documents made with literal “scissors and glue,” and repeated flight from confrontation.
- Cameron mentions Leslie's chronic debt and hints that her family may (enablingly) bail her out:
- “I know her parents helped her and supported her. There was definitely one credit card… ran up a credit card and her parents paid it off for her…” (33:36)
8. The “She’s Done It Again” Realization (34:58)
- Cameron recounts a moment when Leslie’s own mother, Betty, realized the repeat fraud:
- “And then she's like, oh, she's done it again.” (35:12)
- Betty leaves and is never seen again; Cameron warns the bank and removes Leslie from the business.
9. Searching for Leslie—Modern Clues (36:22)
- Cameron receives receipts from Leslie's pharmacy loyalty account, tracking her purchases and confirming she still lives nearby in San Luis Obispo.
- “At first it was kind of comical… She’s buying gummy worms… NyQuil… mascara…” (36:22)
- Ollie and Simon prepare to stake out Leslie's location, feeling both nervous and determined.
10. Interview with “Sarah,” the Ex-Friend and Wine Manager (39:38)
- Sarah shares her experience being charmed and drawn in by Leslie, only to be scapegoated and ostracized once she started asking questions.
- She later encounters Leslie working at a supermarket—a full circle from her hospitality queen persona.
11. Final Family Debrief & Emotional Climax (45:16)
- Ollie updates his family over video chat; their reactions are a mix of disbelief, exhaustion, and a desire for closure.
- “It's beyond reason, isn't it, that she could do these things. Tonight we've learned from you that it’s a pattern.” (45:14, Mum)
- Greg’s wish for Leslie: “Her behaviour has to come to an end. And chaps from New Zealand are gonna help bring that end of behaviour about.” (46:30)
12. Cliffhanger: The Supermarket Showdown (50:13)
- The episode ends as Ollie and Simon arrive in San Luis Obispo, poised for a direct encounter with Leslie at her workplace—a literal and metaphorical confrontation years in the making.
Memorable Quotes
- Cameron (Restaurant Owner) [04:45]: “We do not even call her by her name anymore. So we call her the Black Widow.”
- Cameron [08:19]: “She seemed to indicate that she was worldly, adventurous and wanted to have the zest for life and just enjoy life.”
- Cameron [17:03]: “She went and basically told everybody that it was her restaurant. And most people found out much later that she didn't even put a penny in there.”
- Cameron [17:56]: “She took the logo from their website, put it onto a blank piece of paper, wrote it out. This is your receipt... she had that in the books. As if she had paid.”
- Cameron [20:50]: “This is something that is the most disturbing. $30,000, $30,850 made out to cash. I have no idea where the money went. I mean, I'm an idiot for allowing that to happen.”
- Cameron’s Daughter [26:57]: “She started yelling, you did that on purpose, you fucking manipulative bitch...”
- Cameron [24:34]: “Trust your employees, trust your people, but verify. ... I definitely don’t have as much trust for the people in my lives.”
- Cameron [29:11]: “All the time and effort that she put into creating scams… if she just took the brains of that and did something right with her life, she could probably be successful.”
- Betty (Cameron quoting Leslie's mum) [35:12]: “Oh, she’s done it again.”
- Mum [45:14]: “I have no hatred for her. I don't really have any anger for her. She just leaves me gobsmacked. It's beyond reason, isn't it, that she could do these things.”
- Greg [46:30]: “Her behaviour has to come to an end. And chaps from New Zealand are gonna help bring that end of behaviour about.”
- Sarah [44:04]: “Listening to her just, like, spin and spin and spin and spin, like, I felt empathy for her. And I really had a hard time stopping myself from inviting her over…”
Important Timestamps
- 04:45: Nicknaming Leslie “Black Widow”
- 07:33: Introduction to Cameron, the real restaurant owner
- 17:03: Cameron explains Leslie’s false representation at the restaurant
- 17:56: Discovery of forged receipts and financial mismanagement
- 20:50: Forged checks and the major cash withdrawal
- 21:30: Cameron wrestles with the impact and the decision not to press charges
- 24:34: Cameron discusses trust issues post-Leslie
- 26:57: Cameron's daughter describes verbal abuse and manipulation by Leslie
- 29:11: Reflection on Leslie’s wasted talent and potential
- 34:58: Leslie’s mother recognizes the pattern of fraud
- 36:22: Pharmacy therapy: the bizarre email receipt clue
- 39:38: Interview with Sarah, former friend/wine manager
- 44:04: Sarah’s conflicted empathy toward Leslie
- 45:14: Family video chat, reactions, and reflections
- 50:13: Ollie and Simon stake out the supermarket, ready for the confrontation
Conclusion
“Black Widow” peels back the next layer in Leslie Mnookian’s web—demonstrating how her manipulations, charm, and chaos replay in new locations with new victims, only to yield the same heartbreak and confusion. Through candid conversations with those caught in Leslie’s orbit and introspective moments with his own family, Ollie builds empathy for the collateral damage while honing in on the elusive motivations behind Leslie’s actions. The episode ends on a palpable note of anticipation, setting the stage for a confrontation years in the making.
Next time: Ollie and Simon set out to meet Leslie—face to face.