The 14-Year-Old Bank Robber | From Heavyweight

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deep Cover x Heavyweight — "The 14-Year-Old Bank Robber"

Podcast: Deep Cover (Pushkin Industries)
Episode: The 14-Year-Old Bank Robber | From Heavyweight
Host: Jonathan Goldstein
Air Date: July 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode presents a deeply personal and emotional story of John Paul ("X"), who, at 14 years old, robbed a bank using his father’s sawed-off shotgun. Through a conversation with Jonathan Goldstein (from Heavyweight), John Paul reflects on the events that led to his crime, the shame and secrecy that followed, and his decades-long journey toward seeking forgiveness—from his victims, his family, and ultimately, himself. The episode explores themes of trauma, redemption, and the complexities of atonement, as John Paul attempts to confront the unresolved pain left in the wake of his actions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. John Paul’s Childhood and Motivation (02:21–08:11)

• Abusive Home Life:

  • John Paul describes being raised on a dairy farm in an immigrant family, one of seven brothers.
  • "You would call it abusive today. The belt or broomstick or whatever was handy was used as a corrective measure." (03:24)
  • He shares vivid, painful memories of physical punishment, isolation, and feeling unwanted.

• Isolation and Bullying at School:

  • John Paul faced constant bullying due to his small stature and high voice; his strategy was to "curl up in a ball" and hope the bullies would leave him alone (04:36–05:10).

• Escapism and Fantasies:

  • Movies featuring outlaws and tough guys (“Young Guns”, “Point Break”) as well as reading about notorious criminals became his escape (05:25–06:43).
  • He describes fantasizing about being respected, daydreaming of robbing a bank and fleeing to join the Mafia in New York.

• The Breaking Point:

  • After witnessing a brutal attack on a fellow student, John Paul felt desperate to escape his life: “I gotta get outta here.” (06:57–07:12)

2. Planning and Committing the Crime (08:11–13:10)

• Preparation:

  • John Paul methodically planned the robbery, including sawing off his father’s shotgun, packing a disguise, and choosing a route to escape to New York.
  • "Once the barrel came off… I can't back up on. I have to go forward because I've now destroyed my dad's gun." (08:11)

• Robbery Execution:

  • On the morning of the robbery, John Paul stood at a crossroads: “If I turned left I would be with the crowd of kids… if I turned right I'd be off school grounds and walking towards where the bank was.” (10:28–10:43)
  • He chose the latter, entered the bank, shouted for everyone to get down, and forced two bank tellers to fill his bag with money (11:15–12:24).
  • The gun was not loaded—he was “scared that somebody would get hurt,” but wanted to project power.

• Aftermath and Arrest:

  • The hotel he planned to use as a hideout only rented monthly, not nightly—something the movies hadn’t prepared him for.
  • Panicked, he encountered a police officer and, trying to appear calm, walked past, but was swiftly arrested (13:10–14:31).

3. Legal Consequences and Family Repercussions (14:31–16:29)

• Jail and Sentence:

  • He confesses at the police station; his parents, devastated, are unable to afford a lawyer.
  • Receives a 12-year sentence, serves three years in a youth facility before being released at 17.
  • Spends time reading classics and undergoing therapy; later rebuilds his life with college, career, and marriage.

• Enduring Shame and Family Secrecy:

  • “There’s the boy who is capable of committing that crime, and the grown man to whom that boy is a stranger.” (16:05)
  • The family kept the crime a secret; even John Paul’s brothers rarely spoke about it, and in some cases never told their own spouses (16:29–18:06).

4. Seeking Forgiveness and the Attempt to Apologize (18:25–30:55)

• Desire for Atonement:

  • John Paul wrestles with guilt and the knowledge that he traumatized others:
    • “I was hoping that I might be able to at least let them know… that I’m really sorry that I destroyed their peace and left them with a lot of trauma.” (18:38)
  • He feels the impact of the crime on the victims—those never depicted in the movies he idolized.

• Victims’ Stories:

  • Officer Roy Tupin, who arrested John Paul, “came very close to shooting me”—and was haunted by the incident. (21:20–22:13)
    • After Tupin’s death, his son Nick reflects that his father would have forgiven John Paul: “People make mistakes and you just hope like hell that they don’t have life changing consequences.” (23:03–23:12)
  • Attempts are made to track down the bank tellers. Multiple avenues—court records, local contacts, customers, even a classmate who was also bullied—yield almost no information. When the tellers are found, they decline to speak: one wishes to leave it in the past, the other becomes unreachable due to personal circumstances (29:15–30:37).

• Writing a Letter:

  • John Paul writes a heartfelt letter to one teller, Darlene, but receives no response after two years (31:02–31:49).

5. Coming to Terms With the Past (31:49–36:13)

• Father’s Death and Perspective:

  • After the death of his father, John Paul gains new insight from his father's eulogy: “This person was more than just the worst experiences I had with him.” (32:25)
  • Begins to consider that both he and his father’s lives are larger than their worst moments.

• The Power of Self-Forgiveness:

  • Realizes that waiting for forgiveness from others won’t necessarily grant closure:
    • “I almost felt like until they forgave me, I wasn’t allowed to forgive myself… But the closure I’ve come to realize that needs to happen here is my own.” (32:55–33:35)
  • Slowly stops hiding from his past, acknowledging the full story and moving away from secrecy and shame.

6. Naming Himself and Owning His Story (34:06–36:13)

• Ending the Anonymity:

  • “How can you tell your story if you can’t even say your name?” (34:06)
  • John Paul finally says:
    • “My name is John Paul, and when I was 14 years old, I robbed a bank for $40,000.” (35:07)
  • Relief and a sense of “lightness” follow: “I don’t know that I’ve ever said those exact words... I feel relieved, I guess.” (35:24–35:47)

• Significance of Telling One’s Truth:

  • Jonathan: “Words allow us to tell the story of who we are, and telling that story can feel like a burden, but it can also help lay that burden to rest.” (36:13)
  • John Paul: “It feels like a new chapter in my life or a new story, and I’m kind of allowing myself to be excited about it.” (36:23)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Power and Fear:

  • "I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power." (12:14, John Paul)

• On Empathy for Victims:

  • “I empathized with the guy on the floor getting his face kicked. It never would have occurred to me that I would have been the bully in that scenario.” (19:11, John Paul)

• On Regret:

  • "I really feel so ashamed and so regretful." (15:56, John Paul)

• On Forgiveness:

  • "I think Dad would have forgiven him a long time ago. I really do." (23:03, Nick Tupin on his father)

• On the Burden of Secrecy:

  • “You take it on, you know, to feel compelled to keep up a lie, to feel shame, that's difficult for a nine year old.” (17:15, John Paul’s brother)

• On Naming and Ownership:

  • “My name is John Paul, and when I was 14 years old, I robbed a bank for $40,000.” (35:07, John Paul)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:21–03:41: John Paul describes family abuse and first rebellious act.
• 04:36–05:10: Experiences with school bullying and social isolation.
• 06:57–07:12: Witnessing peer violence pushes him toward drastic action.
• 08:11–09:42: Planning the bank robbery, sawing off the shotgun.
• 11:01–12:24: The actual robbery—his emotions, actions, and passengers' reactions.
• 13:10–14:31: Arrest by Officer Roy Tupin.
• 14:44–15:04: Reaction from parents and sentencing.
• 17:00–18:06: Family members reflect on keeping the incident a secret.
• 18:38–19:11: John Paul’s desire to apologize to the bank victims.
• 21:09–22:13: Officer Tupin’s son shares his father’s emotional fallout after the robbery.
• 29:15–30:37: The search for, and failed connection with, the bank tellers.
• 31:49–35:07: John Paul finally names himself and claims his story.

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Conclusion

This episode stands as a powerful testimonial to the complexities of crime, punishment, shame, and the process of self-forgiveness. Through raw confession, difficult family conversations, and dogged searching for his victims, John Paul’s story unfolds not simply as one of redemption, but as a meditation on the lifelong aftermath of a single, desperate moment. The act of telling—owning—the story becomes a kind of freedom, and reminds us that while the past can't be undone, it can be faced, named, and healed from.

Transcript

[Nick Tupin]

Foreign.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, it's Jake. I hope you enjoyed listening to this last season of Deep Cover. And today I'm back in the feed to bring you an episode of a great companion story to the Family Man. It's an episode from Heavyweight, another Pushkin podcast about what happens when you get to go back to the unresolved moments of your past. This episode follows the story of a 14 year old kid who robbed a bank for $40,000 with his father's sawed off shotgun. 33 years later, he talked with Heavyweights host Jonathan Goldstein about apologizing to the people he harmed that fateful day. If you like the episode, listen to Heavyweight. Wherever you get your podcasts. Here's Jonathan with the story. How's it going? Dr. Jackie Cohen.

[Nick Tupin]

Yep.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How about this? Jackie Cohen. Dr. Jackie Cohen. So, okay, so now that I am officially in my late 50s, what do you think I could do to start improving my health?

[Nick Tupin]

Yeah, you can build up that little noodle body of yours. Got some meatballs on the spaghetti.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes, yes.

[Nick Tupin]

Oh, you're laughing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is that a medical term?

[Nick Tupin]

Why aren't you doing any weightlifting?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Because I don't live near a gym.

[John Paul (X)]

You don't have to live near a gym. Why don't you do something at home?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like where I just go around the house and I, like lift a couch or try to pull a toilet out or something.

[Nick Tupin]

Yeah, that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

From Pushkin Industries. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, the Bank Robber, right after the break.

[John Paul (X)]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hello.

[John Paul (X)]

Hello. How are you?

[Nick Tupin]

Hi.

[John Paul (X)]

Good.

[Nick Tupin]

How are you?

[John Paul (X)]

Doing really well, thank you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Good. Are you comfortable?

[John Paul (X)]

I am, yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The story you're about to hear is from someone who's still figuring out how to tell it or even if he should tell it.

[John Paul (X)]

It just seems very crazy and it's kind of hard for me to talk

[Jonathan Goldstein]

about it at this point. He's only shared the story with a couple of people and he only agreed to share it with me after I promised not to use his real name. So we'll call him X. My communication with X began with an email he sent me over three years ago. It contained a lot of nervous preamble and throat clearing. But eventually he came to the point. In 1992, he said, I committed an armed bank robbery. I was just one month past my 14th birthday. X begins his story by telling me about his family. He was raised on a dairy farm, the son of immigrant parents. He was one of seven children, all brothers. X was right in the middle, right in the middle?

[John Paul (X)]

Yeah. Three older, three younger, yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

X's home life wasn't an easy one.

[John Paul (X)]

Well, you would call it abusive today. You know, the belt or broomstick or whatever was handy was used as a corrective measure. My mom was a little more creative in the implements she would use, but it didn't hurt as much as when my dad did it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

To illustrate, X tells me about the night he snuck out to the local junior high. He noticed an open window and broke in. The police caught him and brought him home where his parents were waiting.

[John Paul (X)]

They told me to remove all my clothing, so I did, minus my underwear. And then I just got like the beating of my life with a belt. But I just remember it hitting me all over my body. I remember it hitting my penis. Like, it was pretty brutal.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

X says. There were other nights like that.

[John Paul (X)]

I remember crying and lights are out and my younger brother trying to say something to comfort me and me saying something like, I hate them and I don't want to be here anymore.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

School offered no respite. X was small for his age and had a high voice. The bullies took notice.

[John Paul (X)]

When they'd see me in the halls, they'd ask me questions, you know, kind of vulgar, like, I heard you, like, giving head or something like that. And I didn't even know what that meant. Or I remember once they asked me, is it true you like to choke the chicken? And again I was like, what? But I said, not really. And they really keyed in on that not really, because it was like, oh, so you kind of like it? My strategy with them was just curl up in a ball and hope that they'd leave me alone. And that, I think, made them want to pick on me more.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Between school and his home life, it felt like there was no safe place to be. So X retreated into a fantasy world. He'd come home from a day of being bullied and lie in bed, playing out scenes in which he was the powerful one, the one to be feared.

[John Paul (X)]

As an example, one of these guys makes fun of me in class, and I get up and I push him down and beat him up like, you know, a Steven Seagal movie or something.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

X found himself drawn to movies like that about tough guys and outlaws, young guns. Point Break, a favorite, was actually called Tough Guys. At around this time, he discovered a book titled the Encyclopedia of Crime in the school library. He'd spend lunchtime there hiding from trouble and reading about criminals like Al Capone, Babyface Nelson and Pretty Boy Floyd. No one bullied them, so I started

[John Paul (X)]

to Fantasize, Daydream about robbing. I had this image of going into a bank and getting a big bag of money. And the place that I dreamed about going to was New York. I thought of New York as being synonymous with the Mafia. And I thought, well, maybe if I could go there, somehow I could ingratiate myself to someone in that family and that would become my new family. As opposed to this family who doesn't seem to want me and who I can do nothing right for.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It was all just a child's fantasy. Until one day in class when X witnessed something that made him realize it might be time to act. A quiet, smaller kid said something to a bigger, tougher kid. The bigger kid pounced.

[John Paul (X)]

He started kicking him, and including kicking him in the face. That really shook me. On my way home on the bus that day, I remember thinking, I gotta get outta here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like, you're gonna. You felt like there was more of an imperative, like you were next.

[John Paul (X)]

Yeah. Cause I. I saw myself as that powerless kid. And I, I even. This is like years and years and years ago, and I still get so emotional about it. It's like, what a horrible way to, you know, go through a day. And I just thought, I don't want that to be me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And so he came up with a plan. There was a bank downtown where his mom was a customer. In the movies, there was always a silent alarm, which meant he'd only have a few minutes to do what he needed to before the police arrived. He'd have to move quickly. He'd also need a hideout. There was a hotel about a block away from the bank. After the robbery, he could rent a room. Once the coast was clear, he'd call a taxi to take him to the airport. And then it was off to New York. And this is the part of the story that feels hardest for X to tell.

[John Paul (X)]

Okay, I. My dad owned a shotgun, which he had used to hunt. It was in a closet. And the first thing I did when I got home was I took that gun. I took it into my bedroom, and with a hacksaw, I sawed the barrel off so it would be easy to carry. I remember once the barrel came off and I had removed it, I thought, okay, I don't really know if I want to do this. I'm kind of terrified. But now I'm in, like, I. I can't. I'm on this track now that I can't back up on. I have to go forward because I've now destroyed my dad's gun. And eventually that Will come to light. I didn't sleep very well that night. I got up in the morning, you know, after staring at the ceiling for what seemed like hours. I remember going out and my mom was putting breakfast on the table. The television was on and they were talking about the 1992 presidential campaign and this Governor Bill Clinton. And I just remember thinking like, this is a, a world I'm no longer part of. I don't, none of that means anything to me today. I'm going into a whole different world and I'm leaving this one behind.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It was October, the beginning of 9th grade. X had just turned 14 years. X packed a suitcase with some clothes and books and a few favorite CDs. Ice tea, they Might Be Giants. He stole a pair of his mother's pantyhose to pull over his face as a disguise. He put on a trench coat and hid the sawed off shotgun inside. As he got on the school bus, the driver asked about his outfit. It's for drama class, he said. When the bus arrived at school he, he was the last to get off. All around him kids were streaming out of buses and parents cars filing into school, going about another normal day.

[John Paul (X)]

And there was a moment of standing there and if I turned left I would be with the crowd of kids and heading towards the entrance of the school. And if I turned right I'd be off school grounds and walking towards where the bank was.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Maybe it still wasn't too late to give up on his plan.

[John Paul (X)]

Like I could just go to school and life could just go back to what it was yesterday and the day before. But I turned the other way and I walked towards the bank.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When X arrived the bank was still closed. So at the back of the bank's parking lot he waited behind some trees. And then at 10:15 he took a deep breath. Okay, he thought, here we go.

[John Paul (X)]

And so I pulled stocking over my face and I ran through the parking lot and I entered the bank with the gun raised in the air and I yelled something to the effect of everybody get on the floor, this is a robbery. It was like a dream or like watching someone else go through these actions. Like I was a passenger and they were doing the driving. Yeah, I remember there was a guy, the first person who was standing in line and he turned toward me and started laughing. I don't know if he thought it was a joke or he just couldn't believe that this little pipsqueak voice kid was holding up a bank or something. But that really made me mad. I felt like I was being laughed at. And so I pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Had you ever used a gun before?

[Nick Tupin]

No.

[John Paul (X)]

I was actually kind of scared of him. Like, I didn't load this gun because I was scared that I would get hurt or somebody would get hurt. I didn't want to hurt anybody.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

X knew that most of the money would be in the vault. He forced two bank tellers to bring him in there and told them to stuff stacks of bills into his bag. When the bag grew full, he picked it up and walked past all the customers still lying on the floor. Then he exited out the front door and made his way to a dumpster where he threw away the shotgun.

[John Paul (X)]

I entered the hotel just a teenager with a green and yellow sports bag of over $40,000.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Unbelievably, the plan had worked. Now X just had to wait out the police who would be responding to the scene, and then he'd be off to New York. He marched up to the hotel clerk and asked for a room.

[John Paul (X)]

And she kind of looked at me like, what? And she said, I'm sorry, all of our rooms are rented by the month. This isn't like that kind of hotel where you can come and just get a room for a night.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Daily versus monthly rates. The one thing movies hadn't prepared him for. X panicked. He couldn't just hang out in the lobby. A kid playing hooky would draw attention. So he headed out the hotel door,

[John Paul (X)]

and right on the corner of the street is a police officer.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

X had two options. Walk away from the officer, which might look suspicious, or walk towards him.

[John Paul (X)]

And so I decided to walk towards him and try to act as cool as I could.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Just after passing the officer and crossing the street, he heard the policeman cry out, freeze. When X turned around, the cop's gun was pointed right at him. X was arrested, and from there, things moved quickly. At the police station, he confessed to the crime and a date was set in juvenile court. X spent the next few nights in jail because his parents couldn't afford a lawyer. One was appointed to him. After the court proceedings, he was allowed to see his parents. It was his first time seeing them since breakfast on the morning of the robbery.

[John Paul (X)]

They were just destroyed. Like, I've never seen them cry as much and be so, like. It was hard for me to look at. They were so upset and, yeah, they just looked broken.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

A few days later, X was sentenced to 12 years.

[John Paul (X)]

I remember Hearing that big long number and thinking, okay, well I guess they're not going to let me off because I was a kid and I remember going back to my cell and crying because it was like, okay, this is really sinking in now. Like, I'm going to be here for a long time.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

X was sent to a youth facility where he was one of the youngest inmates. He spent a lot of time reading, mostly the classics. Dickens, Moby Dick, the Bible. He underwent an intensive treatment program of daily therapies and took his rehabilitation seriously. After three years, when his case came up for review, he was released at the age of 17. From Here Acts a Story, and I mean this in a good way, is unremarkable. He went to college, he got married and has had good jobs.

[John Paul (X)]

I ended up at one point working in a bank, which.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wow.

[John Paul (X)]

Yeah, kind of funny.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's been over 30 years since the day of the robbery and in many ways X has turned his life completely around. And yet when he thinks about that

[John Paul (X)]

day, I really feel. So ashamed and so regretful.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So much so that it's almost like he's divided himself in two. There's the boy who is capable of committing that crime and the grown man to whom that boy is a stranger. A part of the reason it's been so hard for X to tell the story is because in a weird way it's like he's telling someone else's story and it's a story that all his life he's been told no one wants to hear.

[John Paul (X)]

My parents in particular just wanted to pretend like it never even happened. And they were very embarrassed and kept it very secret. It wasn't a matter of just don't tell anyone. It was, if anybody asks, he went to go live with one of your older brothers.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I spoke to several of X's six brothers to hear how the crime impacted the family.

[John Paul (X)]

My mom, I think, was really embarrassed by this.

[Nick Tupin]

She thought the community would judge her.

[John Paul (X)]

For years I didn't tell people about

[Nick Tupin]

it, like well into my adulthood.

[John Paul (X)]

It wasn't until maybe my sophomore year of high school that I shared it with some very close friends.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, and how did that feel?

[John Paul (X)]

It was weird. I remember being really nervous, like, oh my gosh, are they gonna judge me?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[John Paul (X)]

You know, when you're told as a nine year old that this thing is really embarrassing and shameful, you almost absorb it as like your own. You take it on, you know, to feel compelled to keep up a lie, to feel shame, that's, that's difficult for a nine year old.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And it can remain difficult.

[John Paul (X)]

I didn't feel comfortable breaking vow silence.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This is another of X's brothers now, a middle aged man even you know

[John Paul (X)]

now my wife, I've been married to her for over 20 years. I've never told her about it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You, you've never, you've never told your wife about your brother?

[John Paul (X)]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Until even now, yeah.

[John Paul (X)]

Wow.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Did you feel compelled to share it with her at any point?

[John Paul (X)]

I could say I don't know. Over the last couple of decades there's probably been one or two instances where I thought about mentioning it. But after this interview I may tell her I probably will, but. But it hasn't come up yet.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Shame can be silencing. And so for 30 years X has kept quiet. But it hasn't prevented him from thinking about the people in the bank that day. Which is why he's come to me.

[John Paul (X)]

The people that were there. I was hoping that I might be able to at least let them know in some fashion that, that I'm really sorry that I destroyed their peace and left them with a lot of trauma.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

In all those movies X loved to watch, after the crime is committed, the camera remains on the criminal, the star. It never follows the customers, the employees. They're just extras. But X wants to know what became of them, how that day fits into their lives. And most of all he wants to apologize.

[John Paul (X)]

I tried to imagine what the rest of their day was like. I'm guessing they went home early and spouses were called or children were called and they had to tell that story probably multiple times to police, to family and relive it. And how did they sleep that night and for the nights to come. It is just horrific to me. And I, I talked earlier about the student at the school who I saw get beat up. I empathized with the guy on the floor getting his face kicked. It never would have occurred to me that I would have been the bully in that scenario, that I would be the one, metaphorically anyway, doing the kicking.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After the break, the day of the robbery. From the perspective of the victims,

[John Paul (X)]

When

[Jonathan Goldstein]

X thinks about apologizing, there are three people he wants to apologize to. First, the bank tellers, the two women who led him into the vault that day.

[John Paul (X)]

That vault was a very small room and they were in very close proximity to me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So close in fact, that at one point, while opening his gym bag, X unthinkingly leaned the shotgun against one of their thighs.

[John Paul (X)]

They didn't know it wasn't loaded. They didn't know how unstable I was. They didn't know anything. And to feel the weight of that against their leg is just horrifying.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The other person X wants to apologize to is the officer who arrested him that day.

[John Paul (X)]

There's some stuff that's fuzzy, but I remember this very well.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After the policeman yelled for him to drop the money, X reached into his back pocket where he had kept a few bills stashed for his cab to

[John Paul (X)]

the airport, not thinking how a police officer might perceive someone reaching behind their back and pulling something out. I found out later that he came very close to shooting me and that the cop was very distraught, thinking that he almost shot a teenage kid.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Teen nabbed for bank theft reads a local newspaper the day after the robbery. The article names the arresting policeman as Officer Roy Tupin. Our search for Officer Tupin is a few years too late, though. In 2019, Tupin died in a diving accident.

[Nick Tupin]

My name is Nick Tupin. I'm the son of the arresting officer on the day of the robbery.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Nick says his dad told him stories about that day.

[Nick Tupin]

It's my knowledge that was the closest that he'd ever gotten to shooting anyone. Yeah, it shook his world. He took some time off of work. You know, he wasn't sure that that was his career path anymore. I know that it messed with him. You know what I mean?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

One thing Tupin never shared with his son was what kept him from shooting X when he reached into his pocket. But Nick has a theory.

[Nick Tupin]

14 years old. You know, I'm 43 now. I was born in 78. So you do the math, huh?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, you would have been about the same age.

[Nick Tupin]

I imagine. He looked at that kid like he was looking at me kind of deal.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When I tell Nick about X's undertaking, how he's been hoping to make amends for that day, he offers this.

[Nick Tupin]

I think dad would have forgiven him a long time ago. I really do.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What? What makes you think that?

[Nick Tupin]

As he got older, just some of the rhetoric that, you know, people make mistakes and you just hope like hell that they don't have life changing consequences. For what it's worth, after speaking with

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Nick, I turned my attention to the bank tellers. They aren't identified in any of the articles, and the police reports have redacted their names. And since the courthouse records have been sealed and the bank itself no longer exists, I decide that my best bet is to post a sort of missing person's notice in the local paper. I ask if there's anyone who might remember the bank robbery from over 30 years ago or the bank employees from that time. One person responds. She doesn't know the tellers, but she does know about the robbery. Even though my ad didn't mention X by name, she knew who it was immediately. I sat behind X in Spanish class, she says, and so the day after the robbery, when a photo of X lying face down was published in the newspaper, she recognized him because her desk was behind his. She knew the back of his head well. He had a small bald spot and the bullies teased him about it relentlessly. I emailed because I was thinking if X wants to talk about why he did it, he probably would say he was bullied. I want to back him up. She says she can understand why X felt so desperate. She was a target of the same bullies. She too spent her lunches in the library, in her case, reading science fiction and imagining a life in a different world. It makes me sad, she says, if he stuck around, maybe we would have been friends. Because the missing person notice yields no leads, I start combing through old articles for names that might connect me to the tellers.

[Nick Tupin]

Hi, I'm William and I was a customer in the bank on the day of the robbery.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Not only was William a customer, but in one of the articles I read, he's described as chasing X after he fled in hopes of apprehending him.

[Nick Tupin]

Anytime you're facing somebody in a combat situation, everything else around you disappears. It just went tunnel vision on this guy. Who is this son of a bitch?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What inspired you? Are you a risk taker kind of person?

[Nick Tupin]

Yeah, many years of martial art training. That's where that comes from. No fear.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Before I can ask William about the bank tellers, we're interrupted.

[Nick Tupin]

Just, just one second. We're. We're going to order something from a drive in.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

William is talking to me from his car. He's with his wife.

[Nick Tupin]

The two of us hadn't eaten oh my doctor's office all day. So I'm going to interrupt you here. I'm going to places. Order.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, don't mind me.

[Nick Tupin]

Where's that button? Okay. Hi, can I help you? Yes, just a small order of nuggets. Four or six? Just four.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Quickly, I do the math. Four divided by two is two. Two nuggets per spouse. For those of you unfamiliar with nugget apportioning or nuggetomics, eating two nuggets is like eating two grapes, two peanuts. It's like eating two nuggets with my microphone muted. To William, I process my feelings of judgmentalness. To my producer, Stevie, like You're starving and you're like, oh, my God, I haven't eaten all day.

[John Paul (X)]

I'll just. We'll share.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We'll share. Four nuggets. Like a nugget's that big.

[Nick Tupin]

Okay, thank you. All right, so go right ahead.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I proceed with the most pressing question. Is that. That's all you're getting?

[Nick Tupin]

Well. Well, we have a nice dinner plan, so we don't want to wreck the dinner, you know? So I'm just going to get a little appetizer.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

William has no fear, save the fear of ruining his appetite. With that bit of housekeeping out of the way, I ask William if he remembers the names of the tellers. He says no, but he does remember X.

[Nick Tupin]

He yelled at everybody to get on the effing floor or I'll blow your heads off.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Did he sound like a child?

[Nick Tupin]

No, he sounded very menacing. And he did not look like a child.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Exa told me that he looked like a pipsqueak kid, that people laughed. But William says he doesn't remember any laughter, only screaming.

[Nick Tupin]

I found out the next day that he was 14 years old. I couldn't believe it. Unbelievable. You know that that takes chutzpah or is real desperate.

[John Paul (X)]

My name is Lujean. I was a former manager of the

[Jonathan Goldstein]

hotel in the hope there might be someone who can connect me to the tellers. I spend my days speaking with anyone vaguely associated with the robbery.

[Nick Tupin]

My name's Mary, and I represented in juvenile court. My name is George. I wrote for the newspaper.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

My name is Jane, and I used

[Nick Tupin]

to be the librarian at high school. My name is Vale and I was a police sergeant at the police department there.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But no one can recall the tellers. Did you bank at that bank across the street? No, I did not.

[Nick Tupin]

I wish I could help you, but I don't really remember.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Did you know any of the people that work there?

[Nick Tupin]

No.

[John Paul (X)]

No, no, no.

[Nick Tupin]

Sorry, I can't help you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But then, after two months of phone calls.

[Nick Tupin]

Hello?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I call a restaurant across the street from where the bank used to be. The owner of the restaurant is now 84 years old. When I ask if she remembers anyone who worked at the bank back then, anyone she was friendly with. She gives me the names of two people. Two tellers. Darlene and Judy. It takes me a few weeks, but eventually I find Darlene and Judy. And as it turns out, incredibly, they were the very same tellers working on the day of the robbery. After months of searching, we found them. Judy is now in her 80s and living in a retirement home. But when I speak with her daughter. She tells me her mother isn't interested in talking, that she wants to leave the past in the past. As for Darlene, at first she seems open. But then her husband grows ill and she stops returning my calls. I can't tell if it's because her husband is sick or if she's changed her mind about revisiting that day.

[John Paul (X)]

Hey, Jonathan.

[Nick Tupin]

How are you?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey.

[John Paul (X)]

Good. How are you?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's been over a year since I first spoke with X. I tell him the bank tellers don't seem to want to speak with him. X is disappointed, but says he understands. He says it, though, like he's starting to feel that maybe this whole undertaking was foolish.

[John Paul (X)]

To them, I'm just still that same guy that did that thing. It's hard for me to blame them, I guess.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I suggest to X that maybe he should try writing a letter to Darlene, since she'd seemed open to talking this way. Maybe he can at least offer her his words and she could decide what to do with them. Darlene, X writes, I understand that words alone cannot undo the pain I caused you and the others in the bank that morning. Still, X expresses his regret, tells Darlene how he's thought of her. Often, he apologizes many times after the letter is mailed off. Two years pass, during which X receives no response. And that's where I think our story ends.

[John Paul (X)]

Hey, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, how are you?

[John Paul (X)]

A lot has happened since we last spoke.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, fill me in. But then in May 2025, X reaches out.

[John Paul (X)]

A year ago, in November, I got a call from one of my brothers, and he doesn't usually call me on the phone, so I picked up and I found out that my dad had passed away.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, geez, I'm sorry.

[John Paul (X)]

Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

X says it was while helping write his father's obituary. And listening to his father be eulogized at the funeral, hearing the people who loved him speak about all he'd done in his life, that something happened.

[John Paul (X)]

It reminded me that this person was more than an unequipped parent, or he was more than just the worst experiences I had with him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Taking a broader view of his father's life helped X to zoom out on his own. There was the day of the robbery, but then there were all the days after, too. If his father's legacy didn't have to be defined by one bad thing, perhaps his own legacy didn't have to be either.

[John Paul (X)]

You know, when we initially started talking, my hope was that I would be able to speak to the People who were there and that didn't work out. And it was hard for me, I think, because I almost felt like until they forgave me, I wasn't allowed to forgive myself. That that was like a luxury that I didn't deserve or something like that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Over the past three years, I've sought out the tellers, the customers, and even the policemen who almost shot X, all in service to X finding forgiveness. But there was always one person's forgiveness that he discounted.

[John Paul (X)]

I was a kid, you know, my head wasn't on straight and I was dealing with a lot of pain. And I felt like that's what I needed to do to get out of that pain. And I think the closure I've come to realize that needs to happen here is my own. That's the little mini journey I went on was like, I don't have to keep lying or hiding or running from this or pretending like this was a different person.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When X first came to me, he was trying to figure out how to tell his story. But in everything from witness accounts to confessions, from Great Expectations to Moby Dick, stories begin by asserting who the person telling the story is. How can you tell your story if you can't even say your name?

[John Paul (X)]

You know, I'm going through the trouble of, like, asking you not to call me by my name and worrying about people finding out. But it's me, it's my story. And I'm not proud of it. But I'm also not trying to run away from it. I've done it for long enough.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's really wonderful to hear you say that. And I don't think it's such a mini journey, you know?

[John Paul (X)]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So do you think all that being said, you think you're. You think you're okay with just coming out and saying it?

[John Paul (X)]

My name is John Paul, and when I was 14 years old, I robbed a bank for $40,000.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. How does that feel?

[John Paul (X)]

Um. Like there's a lightness in it. I don't know that I've ever said those exact words. Um, I almost hesitate to say it. Cause it's. It's like I said, I felt like I wasn't allowed to not wallow in shame, but I feel relieved, I guess.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. It's really John Paul. That's a very nice thing to hear.

[John Paul (X)]

Thank you.

[Nick Tupin]

Yeah.

[John Paul (X)]

It's kind of surprising to me how I've just been saying words. Right? Like, I'm just talking. Like, how could words make that much of a difference?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Words allow us to tell the story of who we are, and telling that story can feel like a burden, but it can also help lay that burden to rest.

[John Paul (X)]

It feels like a new chapter in my life or a new story, and I'm kind of allowing myself to be excited about it.

[Nick Tupin]

Sa.

[John Paul (X)]

Now that the furniture's returning to its goodwill home, now that the last month's rent is skiing with the D damage deposit, take this moment to decide

[Jonathan Goldstein]

if we meant it, if we tried, or felt around for far too much.

[John Paul (X)]

From Things that accidentally touch.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This episode of Heavyweight was produced by supervising producer Stevie Lane and and me, Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our senior producer is Kahlilah Holt. Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Sean Cole, Chris Neary, Ben Nadif Haffrey, Lydia Jean Cott, Connie Williams, Katherine Rinehart, and especially Mohini Madgauker. Emma Munger mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellowes, John K. Sampson and Bobby Lord. Additional scoring by Blue Dot Sessions. Our theme song is by the Weaker Thans, courtesy of Epitaph Records. Follow us on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast or email us at heavyweightushkin fm. We'll be back with a brand new episode in two weeks.

[Nick Tupin]

Foreign.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Jackie cohen jeanti plumerie jackie cohen moi la tet jackie cohen moi la tet

[John Paul (X)]

this is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.