Podcast Summary
Deep Cover Presents: Snowball – “The Truth About Sarah Revisited” (Live at WBUR, 12/29/2025)

Overview

This live episode of Deep Cover revisits the saga of Sarah Cavanaugh—a woman who convincingly posed as a wounded Marine veteran with cancer, scamming both individuals and organizations. Hosts Jake Halpern and Jess McHugh unpack the lingering emotional, ethical, and societal reverberations of her six-year deception, featuring never-before-heard tape, updates since the podcast aired, audience questions, and reflections from victims and key sources. The live taping at WBUR CitySpace doubles as a fundraiser for Patrol Base Abate (PB Abate), a Montana-based veterans' retreat highlighted as a positive refuge amid the pain Cavanaugh left behind.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of the Investigation (05:44–09:11)

• Jess McHugh’s Interest in Female Scammers: Jess shares her longstanding fascination with female con artists, seeking more depth than tabloid stories offered. After reading about Sarah Cavanaugh in the New York Post, Jess wrote her a letter in prison (06:36).
  • “I really suspect that there is much more to your story than this short piece that I read, and I’d love to hear more.” – Jess McHugh [07:14]
• Building Trust with Sources: Jess took a cautious, empathetic approach to building trust with Sarah, spending months in correspondence before recording interviews.

2. Patrol Base Abate: A Beacon Amid Betrayal (09:11–14:13)

• Mission and Setting: Co-founder Tom Schuman describes PB Abate’s roots in loss and necessity—a retreat for all veterans, not just combat-injured or “elite” forces (09:57–12:54).
  • “I lost more Marines on the home front than I had lost on the battlefield... What are you doing to keep them alive at home?” – Tom Schuman [10:25]
• Addressing Veterans’ Mental Health: The group explores how the retreat’s inclusivity fills gaps left by restrictive veteran organizations, making Sarah’s betrayal especially painful as it stole not just money, but opportunity and hope from a vulnerable group.

3. Victims’ Experiences: Generosity, Shame, and Healing (14:13–20:11)

• Betrayal’s Emotional Complexity:
  • Justin, himself terminally ill, gave Sarah money and had his medical records stolen.
  • The shame and reluctance to talk publicly is highlighted; victims often feel foolish or judged (15:55).
    • “I’ve interviewed a lot of people on both sides of the sort of scam equation... They’re never stupid, they're never greedy. They're often people...who really want to help. And that unfortunately puts them in a vulnerable [place].” – Jess McHugh [15:55]
• Justin’s Story of Service and Community:
  • Justin recounts his wife’s sacrifices and generosity while he was serving in Iraq, emphasizing the web of support within military families (18:24–19:41).
  • “You think about what Justin did for Sarah...it was part of a greater connectivity...there’s a throughline of when people do things for us that we repay them.” – Jake Halpern [19:41]

4. The Nature of Trust and Betrayal (25:04–29:51)

• Michelle’s Reflections:
  • A close friend and caretaker of Sarah, Michelle discusses the non-violent nature of Sarah’s crime and the societal importance of trust (25:31).
    • “When you break down that circle of trust, society can’t function.” – Michelle [26:25]
  • The lasting damage isn’t just loss of money, but shaken trust in others—and even self-doubt.
    • “The risk with scams is...you fundamentally come to fear your sense of reality... Is what I see and experience in the world true?” – Jess McHugh [29:22]

5. Healing, Forgiveness, and Moving Forward (31:54–36:39)

• Dex’s Wisdom on Forgiveness:
  • Dex, a Marine and early victim, describes coping with betrayal by ‘eating the cost’—accepting theft and loss will not be restored, and choosing to fix oneself rather than waiting for the perpetrator to make amends (31:56).
    • “If you’re really going to forgive somebody, you have to be okay with fixing it yourself.” – Dex [32:27]
  • Halpern and McHugh find universal resonance in Dex and Justin’s responses, drawing broader parallels to everyday betrayals.

6. Behind the Scenes: Production, Challenges & Collaboration (37:29–54:54)

• Fieldwork Realities and Team Dynamics:
  • Producer Amy Gaines McQuaid shares her harrowing (yet calmly handled) car slide-off en route to Vermont—highlighting the behind-the-scenes unpredictability of journalism (38:21).
    • “That’s Amy’s car going off the road into the snow on a Vermont road.” – Jake Halpern [38:24]
  • The hosts emphasize the trust required not just in storytelling but between team members.
    • “This entire story...it’s all about trust and distrust. The one thing that I knew for certain I trusted was Jess.” – Jake Halpern [54:00]
• Audience Questions Answered:
  • Why did sources talk? Many were “helpers” at heart, or wanted to clear their names of complicity (41:41).
  • The collaborative approach helped shoulder the emotional weight and complexity of the story.

7. Updates: Where Is Sarah Now? (42:45–45:54)

• Post-Podcast Developments:
  • Sarah briefly released to a halfway house after the podcast aired but returned to prison for creating a hostile environment; expected out summer 2026.
  • On sustaining elaborate lies: Both hosts conclude it's less masterful manipulation, more a combination of human willingness to believe and Sarah's ability to deflect with “brain injury” excuses (44:03–45:54).

8. Con Artists, Empathy, and Unanswered Questions (46:00–59:33)

• Why Are Female Scammers So Fascinating?
  • Jess reflects on society’s fixation with women who defy norms and commit bold deceptions (46:00).
• Remorse and The Falsified Letters:
  • The shock when letters submitted to the court (purportedly from victims advocating leniency) turned out to be forged (57:27).
    • This discovery challenged even the journalists’ willingness to find empathy for Sarah.
• Did Sarah Feel Remorse?
  • The hosts agree: Sarah is difficult to pin down. Moments of apparent responsibility were “always followed by a ‘but’” (58:32).
• Broader Reflections:
  • Even small deceptions are relatable, but Sarah’s crimes are an extreme version of a universal impulse (59:33).

9. Future Projects & Final Thanks (60:48–63:14)

• Jess’s Upcoming Book: “Beg, Borrow, Scam”—a comprehensive look at female scammers (60:48).
• Jake’s Next Deep Cover Season: Hints at a new investigation set in the Ozarks, with behind-the-scenes postal detective work (61:41).
  • “All these documents...the person that found them was like, I’m going to mail them to you...Mitch is like, brother, I am on it...I’m delivering the documents to your house tomorrow.” – Jake Halpern [62:55]
• Appreciation & Call to Action:
  • Audience thanked for attending and encouraged to support PB Abate to help veterans (63:14).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On PB Abate’s Mission:
  • “As you drive up the road heading towards PB Abate, there is something that will stir in your soul...every time you turn a river bend, you think, ‘this is the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen’...” – Jake Halpern paraphrasing Tom Schuman [09:11]
• On Forgiveness:
  • “You have to eat the cost...you can’t expect it to be made whole. You have to be okay with it not being whole.” – Dex [31:56]
• On Remorse:
  • “Sarah denies writing those...so there’s a lot of confusion, but that was where I felt very endeared to her...after all these crimes...it feels like it’s the moment for her to take some responsibility.” – Jess McHugh [57:54]
• On the Universality of Deception:
  • “We all to much lesser extents have different versions of ourselves – so the idea of that kind of deception doesn’t strike me as wholly foreign. It’s just taken to an extreme...that’s unfathomable. But the impulse feels very deeply human.” – Jake Halpern [59:33]
• Behind-the-Scenes Humor:
  • “That’s Amy’s car going off the road into the snow on a Vermont road.” – Jake Halpern [38:24]
  • “If it had been my car going off the road, I would have been dropping the F bomb...” – Jake Halpern [38:40]

Important Timestamps for Segments

• Jess on discovering Sarah’s story: 05:44–06:41
• Tom Schuman describes PB Abate & suicide rates among veterans: 09:11–12:54
• Justin on family, generosity, and betrayal: 15:55–19:41
• Michelle on trust and societal function: 25:31–26:25
• Dex on forgiveness (“eat the cost”): 31:54–32:37
• Live behind the scenes (Amy’s car, team tribute): 38:21–39:17
• Update on Sarah Cavanaugh’s legal status: 42:45–44:03
• Court letters forged by/for Sarah: 57:27–59:33
• Closing, thanks, and future projects: 60:48–63:14

Final Thoughts

This episode pulls back the curtain on the enduring harms of deception—not just dollar losses, but the corrosion of trust and the difficult path to healing and forgiveness. The live conversation, through stories, tape, and candid Q&A, probes the humanity both of those who deceive and those who are deceived, offering honest, unflinching context while reminding listeners of the power and necessity of community, truth, and support—especially for veterans.

Listeners are encouraged to support Patrol Base Abate and to stay tuned for new work from both hosts.