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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Deep Dive, a podcast series in which Frederick's editor in chief, Derek Caponigro and fellow editors are joined by design industry leaders to share their unique insights, experiences, and knowledge on the world of decorating.
- [00:16]
B
I am Hudson Moore, the senior design editor of Frederick. Welcome to today's Deep Dive. I am so excited to introduce you to today's guest, Xavier Donnelly. Xavier has created some amazing spaces like the wine bar Le Dive, the Brasserie de Chat, and Dowlings at the Carlisle Hotel. Xavier was recently named the creative director of the multidisciplinary studio property firm and hotelier Ash, the design force behind Hotel Peter and Paul in New Orleans, the Siren in Detroit, and Ulysses in Baltimore. And he's just recently launched a new wallpaper collection for backdrop based on his original artwork. Welcome, Xavier.
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C
Thanks for having me.
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B
So I would love to just get started by you taking us through your career. Walk us through what you've done to date.
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C
Going back a little bit before, before my career, growing up, my, My entire childhood. I, honestly, from a very early age, I always was convinced that I would be an architect. I was very drawn to buildings and spaces and architecture. That's what all my books were about. My main toys were, you know, blocks and wooden blocks and Legos. And I developed very early on sort of like, fascination with drawing cityscapes and buildings and interiors. So when I applied to college, it was very much with that in mind. I, I went to risd. And after my first year of risd, which is a foundational year, I decided to pivot to sculpture. It felt at the time like a huge departure from what I always thought I'd do. And I think, ironically, I've ended up more or less in that field in a, in a really good way, which I like. But it was really mainly because I, I just didn't love how rigid and structured I think the architecture curriculum was. And I wanted something that had, you know, less boundaries, but that I was still able to create kind of physical things and, you know, explore spaces in a, in a bit of a different way. And I think, you know, that's, that's really been sort of quite foundational throughout my career as being, you know, having that background in sort of sculpture where there are no rules, but being, being, being able to kind of like, you know, focus that into very sort of like, practical and, you know, real practice projects.
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B
I love that. That's so cool.
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C
I mean, I, I, what I really think is that the best thing you get from art school education is the ability to, you know, put Everything, like your whole heart and soul into, you know, a piece or a project and, you know, just really, you know, work tirelessly on it and then have it be completely torn apart and eviscerated by a group of your peers and professors and, you know, move on from that and be okay with it and. And be able to sort of like, you know, not have it destroy you and grow. And I think that's maybe the. Maybe the best skill you get from your art education.
- [03:18]
B
So after school, where. Where'd you go?
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C
So after college, I. I was making. I was working on my own sculpture work, drawing, still painting a bit, and I did some jobs in the art world. I worked for David's Werner Gallery for a few years. And then I also worked on production for some of these sort of big fashion shows that happen in New York during Fashion Week and. And, you know, production for photo shoots and stuff like that. It was really intense. There were parts of it I. There were parts of that I really loved and that I didn't love. But it was very creative and you had to be very clever about what you were going to do. It was a lot of faking it. It was a lot of, you know, creating these very cinematic things very quickly and being very resourceful and crafty about how you're going to sort of pull something big together.
- [04:09]
B
And what excited you about going to Ash?
- [04:13]
C
Well, Ash. I've been following Ash ever since college, really, because in my senior year at RISD in Providence, the Dean opened, which was Ash's first hotel. And honestly, Providence was like, starting to really change at that. At that point, I think it was 2014 or 2015, they. Providence was. The city was like, really ongoing this kind of transformation. There were. There was all these, you know, all this creative energy that instead of leaving the city after, you know, graduating from places like Brown, risd, Johnson and Wales, people were actually staying. They were opening creative studios, they were opening restaurants and this sort of like, very cool hotel, restaurant, bar complex that Ash built with the Dean. Felt like it, like, cemented this moment of change for the city. And I remember how sort of powerful that was. So, you know, that was kind of my first introduction to Ash. And then ever since then, I always sort of like, had a very close eye on them. You know, after. After working many years for Dig in, which is a restaurant group based out of New York, designing restaurants for them, I struck out on my own and was doing a lot of mostly hospitality projects, mostly restaurants, bars, and then started having these conversations with Ari, who's the CEO of ash. And I realized that, you know, if there was one place I would go back to work for like a group or a company, it would be. It would be ashes. Just like the vision and the freedom and the creativity that's represented in that team is inspiring and it actually can kind of support a much larger scope of ambition.
- [06:05]
B
Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, I have admired their work for a long time too, and I think it's so cool to step into something that has already done some impressive work and to get to build on top of that.
- [06:19]
C
Yeah, I mean, I knew I would have to really believe in it, obviously. Like, I believe in anything that I do or at least anything that I do and talk about. And I think, you know, that that felt, it felt very natural and it felt like something that I was very excited to, you know, continue developing the vision of that group.
- [06:41]
B
So I've heard that you grew up in a really creative household. What would you say were some of your early inspirations?
- [06:47]
C
It's true. I mean, both my parents are extremely creative. For much of my childhood, my parents owned a picture frame company and they were all sort of handmade, hand painted picture frames. And my mom's an artist. She also went to risd and they were all made in this sort of big warehouse, lofty studio. And my brother and I essentially grew up in this studio. You know, our toys were paint and art materials. We would sort of be in a corner while my mom was working and, you know, we'd be drawing or painting or gluing things together. And it was just sort of like that was just life. That was just how. That was what we knew. That was what we. That was what we did. Our house was always an art project as well. My mom painted our bedroom ceiling and walls as a blue sky, which is become a recurring motif in my work and also is very much the inspiration for one of the wallpapers that I did with backdrop just now.
- [07:53]
B
So let's get into your design work a little bit. I, you know, can really appreciate how much effort goes into crafting a space and, and conceiving it from the beginning. Talk to me about your approach when, when approaching a new space or project.
- [08:11]
C
Yeah, it's, it's definitely not a linear process. I think, like, the best way to describe it is that I almost have to like write a short story about the space or the project or whatever it is sort of in my mind to just figure out how the pieces are going to come together and how that narrative is really going to be Sort of told through all the decisions that are going to be made around, you know, any project like this. So I'm trying to think about the context, the history. There's a lot of research involved. I'm making up characters, past inhabitants, current inhabitants. And that is, like. I think that's really the thing that. That allows me to sort of build this kind of framework that, for me, acts as this kind of, like, check against all of the things that I might be interested in doing. It helps me sort through all the ideas and try to figure out if it. If it fits, if it makes sense in the story. If I'm, you know, it's thinking about it as almost like, you know, directing a film or, you know, creating a film set. And you're thinking about the people who are there and the lives that are lived in the history of a place and the, you know, the lives of place has lived and then trying to sort of collect all the pieces that tell that story. To me, it's more about that than it is about, you know, emulating a certain style or trying to create a certain look. And I think that. That. I think that that process also allows a greater freedom. I mean, you want to have in a space, at least in a hospitality space. I think my favorite spaces are the ones that have been kind of created over a long period of time and primarily by a proprietor or an owner, somebody to whom the space is deeply personal. And not everything is perfect about the spaces I love. I think there's always something a little wrong and a little off kilter about spaces that I'm really drawn to. And so I think creating that kind of, like, narrative, that story, when you're approaching a design project, like, that kind of allows you the freedom to, like, you know, go in the wrong direction sometimes. Because I think that's sort of what happens in a natural evolution of any place.
- [10:36]
B
Totally. And it's those nuances that make something interesting and not feel sterile or too polished.
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C
Exactly. Exactly.
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B
So how would you say that you approach a design differently for a hospitality versus a residential project?
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C
I think that. I don't know. I don't know how differently I would approach it just from, like, from how I think about it. Because I think when you're in a hotel, when you're in a restaurant, again, you want it to feel like it's very personal. I think you wanted. You wanted to feel like a person created it, not a corporation. You want to feel like you're actually being taken care of on a very, you know, personal hospitable. Level. So, you know, when you're in a hotel, I think you kind of do want it to feel like home a little bit, but somebody's very sort of polished, sophisticated guest room, probably, rather than, you know, a room with all their stuff in it, obviously. And then, you know, I think. I think the same would go for a restaurant. Like, you want to see these touches that actually like, you know, show you that there's a real person behind it, a real person who's. Who really cares about the space, who cares about the experience. And that could come through in the decor. It could come through in the food, the menu, the presentation. I mean, there's a million ways in which that is articulated. And that's partially what I love about the hotel business, is that there are so many touch points and there's so many ways that you can kind of communicate an idea or express intention. And then, of course, there's a lot of practical things about hospitality. Anything. Hospitality is high traffic. A lot of people use it, A lot of people experience it. There's a lot of wear and tear. So you. You do have to keep that in mind as well as sort of dull as that might sound.
- [12:30]
A
We're going to take a quick break to thank the sponsor of today's show, Backdrop. Backdrop's premium quality paints are low voc, greenwise certified low odor, and the most impactful way to transform a space. They offer easy color sampling and all the painting supplies you need sent directly to you with fast, free shipping. Head to backdrophome.com to get your new favorite backdrop.
- [12:56]
B
Would you say that the hotel industry is changing in any way? And if so, how would you say that you're evolving to keep up?
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C
I think it is changing a lot. I mean, basically what I'm observing is trends in hospitality and what people are reacting to and what I'm attracted to. And I think what is getting released out there and being successful, what I'm seeing, and I think also what I'm trying to create and what I'm very focused on creating is these experiences that are very transportive. They're almost escapist. They're cinematic, and they're very authentic to the place. You know, there's all. There's always a place for the business, hotel or the standardized thing that is going to provide a very consistent experience no matter where you get it. But that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to. When I'm going into a city or a neighborhood or anything, I'm trying to access the fantasy of that place. I'm trying to access the sort of escapist vision of that place, and I'm trying to actually allow you to immerse yourself fully in it. So it's kind of like, it's kind of like leaving reality a little bit and entering, you know, this world where you can really, and I hate the word, sort of like, I hate the term like, theme park, because that sounds cheesy, but you almost want it to be this kind of like you've left the day today, you're in this new place, and you can be the person that you could fantasize about being in this place. And I think that's where I'm seeing a big sort of, like, trend shift in the hotel business is really going, taking a little bit more risks, going full in on the immersive experience of being in a place. I think that's also part of what we're seeing as kind of like the evolution or, you know, the push back against this, the, like, Airbnb, you know, home share industry, which is that, that was sort of promising a very authentic experience, a very sort of local, authentic experience of a place. But more and more what we're seeing happen there is you get a very sort of standard product, and people are really sort of making a business out of Airbnbs in the same way that, you know, they make a business out of a very standardized, you know, hotel chain.
- [15:25]
B
And when you feel that, you know, transportive thing, when you walk into a hotel or restaurant, any hospitality space, it's magic, you know that it's like something special. You really catch on to that and it, it's really exciting. So what would you say have been some of your favorite experiences in hotels or bars or restaurants?
- [15:49]
C
That's a really hard question. I, it's, I, I, that's one of those questions where, you know, if somebody would ask me, like, oh, what's your favorite? What's your favorite hotel? Which is actually a question I get a lot. And of course, I should have, like, I, I do, and I should have a list, but my mind always goes blank when I get that. But I, I did jot down some, some sort of more recent, memorable experiences, trying to, like, cover the gambit of, of hotels, restaurants, bars, because they all can be, you know, quite different. Again, I think the common thread is that, you know, the places that I really love and that I get really excited by and I feel like, you know, really connected to are places that have a lot of history. There's a lot of layers to them. And they feel very personal, both in the, you know, service and attentiveness and, you know, how you're sort of treated there and how you come away feeling, but also to their proprietors. And then the. The other. The other sort of common thread is like, I like to again, be a little bit removed from reality, and I want to go fully into the. I want to go fully into the world that. That this person sort of created. I was recently in Tokyo and by, I think, my favorite bar in Tokyo, and one of my favorite bars in the world is Moribar, which is in Ginza. It's sort of based around martinis, and it's up on the eighth floor of, you know, a building. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful space. There's a lot of, like, things that are very incongruous about it. The, you know, cocktail master himself is there making your drink. It feels very like, you know, you've entered this person's world and you're fully there and you'll be there until you leave it. There's a hotel in Marrakech called Lotel, and it's by. It's one of Jasper Conran's properties that again, feels like you enter the gates of this, you know, Riyadh in the Medina and Marrakech, and you're just completely in that world now. And you. It's like the. It's like the entering through that gate is very symbolic. And you've left the dusty, sort of busy medina with all the motorcycles, and you're now in this kind of like, completely calm, serene, beautiful oasis. And I couldn't recommend a hotel more than that one. Another sort of recent memorable experience was last year on a ski trip in Vilar. We group of friends of mine, we went to this restaurant that we planned to go to. It's quite far up in the mountains. And I think they were having a problem with their snowmobile that's supposed to bring you up there. So we ended up having to hike about one hour up to get to this restaurant. And could have been. It could have been so bad, but it actually. The moon was out and the stars were out and it was dark and we were hiking up through the snow. And there was just something about that experience that really kind of like, I'll just never forget it. Obviously, the food was good too, so there was a reward at the end. But it again, it just. It just brought you completely out of the world and put you, like, right into this different place. And I just, you know, I think that's really fabulous.
- [19:07]
B
That's so great. I have a note here to interject that one of my favorite dinners from last year was at Stissing House. And I mean, the company was great, the food was great, but I just feel like the atmosphere that you created with the design just took it to a whole other level.
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C
Oh, thank you.
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B
Yeah, it's such a good one.
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C
Yeah, I, you know, I. I feel like I can't take too much credit for that because the building that we worked on was built in 1781. It. It was originally a tavern and had been some sort of. Some sort of like, hospitality establishment ever since then, which is totally crazy. It had all the bones. It had just incredible history. And you can really feel it. And I'm sure, you know, if you've been there, you can also really feel it. And, you know, my. I think my challenge was that there had been so many renovations done over the years that the goal was really to sort of strip all that away and kind of just like, let the. Let the building be what it wanted to be and let the building be what it was. So that space, particularly while we, like, you know, really wanted to make it this absolutely beautiful space, it was. It was almost more an exercise in restraint. And Claire, the chef and proprietor of the restaurant, you know, she also has, like, the most incredible creative vision, and it was. It was truly a joy collaborating with her on that project.
- [20:39]
B
You talked about recently about touch points in the hotel industry, and I know that you all at ASH have been developing all of these robes and tote bags and playing cards. How was that developing a line of product really fun.
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C
It was not something I had done before in such an extent. It's really. It's not easy and it's not. I think when you. I think when you're designing a space, there's. There's sort of a level of like, you know, visual trickery you can do, and there's all these kind of, like, strategies you can employ to create an effect and to make something feel a certain way. And, you know, it's not that it's. It's not that it's like, cheap or, you know, you know, cutting corners. It's just that you can kind of like, it's a more malleable medium in a way, whereas when you're developing something that's a product, you're going to put it out there in the world, it just has to be like. It just has to be really high quality, at least. I feel like anything I would bother making should be. And so it's just. It's a super painstaking process, and it requires a lot of focus and, you know, a lot of resourcefulness and trying to make things, you know, work on budget and on time. I think what I really love about the things that we made is that they're very beautiful, but they're also all usable. So they're not just things that are going to sit on a shelf. They're actually meant to be employed in daily life and making, you know, some small activities. Very beautiful.
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B
Yeah. Well, it's such a success. I mean, it's such a great line.
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C
Thank you.
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B
So tell us about what you're excited about right now. Are there any fun projects in the pipeline?
- [22:27]
C
Yes, many. I can't talk about all of them, but the. I think the one that I'm. I'm just most excited for and, you know, working the hardest on right now is. Is the new Ash Hotel, which is opening in Richmond and this coming fall. It's called Shenandoah Mansions in Richmond, Virginia. Sorry. And it's. It's at the point of the process where things are starting to feel very real. You know, we are getting all of this antique furniture that we bought over the summer. It's finally sort of arriving on US shores this coming week. I just spent the past week, you know, working through this massive scope with a decorative painter, Violet O'Neill Oliphant, who is actually a childhood friend of mine. And so we're going to be working together, you know, throughout the summer to create some really beautiful moments in this hotel. And everything is starting to materialize in a way that is so good and also so scary because it's not conceptual anymore. And I sort of can't wait for this moment where I'm living on site there every day in this sort of heat and adrenaline of that kind of last push that will happen this summer. So it's far away, but I'm already sort of gearing up for it, so it's feeling like it's close.
- [23:54]
B
That's so exciting. Richmond's such a great place. I love that y'all are opening a hotel there.
- [24:00]
C
Yeah, it's. It's. You know, it's. It is. It is a super vibrant city. It's. It's in. It's. It feels like I'm excited by it because it feels to me, and I'm an outsider, so take that with a grain of salt. But it feels like coming off. Coming off this sort of, you know, the. Where it was, the epicenter of the Black Lives Matter protests. It was, you know, this. This really. This place where this sort of movement for cultural change really kind of materialized. It feels like it's at this point where it's undergoing a redefinition of what that city is, and I think in a really positive way. And the more I interact with people who live there, you know, members of the community, community leaders, people who are really sort of invested and embedded in Richmond, you feel like it's a place that can only have an upward trajectory. And that is a place with an incredible amount of sort of creative energy and where there's a lot of pride in the place.
- [25:07]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Well, I can't wait to see how that hotel turns out. We'll all be waiting in the wings.
- [25:14]
C
Yeah. And then I think the other thing I'm just excited for is that I was in LA last week shooting the wallpaper for Backdrop, and that's a little bit closer on, but that's. We're going to, you know, release that to the world sometime soon, I hope. I think this spring. And I just cannot wait to get that out there because I've been kind of sitting quietly on it for. Feels like too long.
- [25:40]
B
Well, I've seen some previews. It's really. It's really amazing, really special. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you getting on and getting on our podcast today.
- [25:51]
C
Oh, it was my pleasure. It was really great to chat.
- [25:54]
B
Well, take care and we'll talk soon.
- [25:57]
C
Okay, great. Talk to you soon.
- [26:01]
A
Thanks for joining us today. Stay tuned for next week's episode of Deep Dive.