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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Deep Dive, a podcast series in which Frederick's editor in chief, Dara Caponigro, and fellow editors are joined by design industry leaders to share their unique insights, experiences and knowledge on the world of decorating.
- [00:16]
B
Hi, everybody. I'm Dara Capnegro and I'm the creative director of Schumacher. And we are so lucky today because we have Kit Kemp, the creative director of the Ferndale Hotels, with us today. I haven't met Kit before, but I feel so fortunate to be with you today. Hey, Kit. So welcome to Deep Dive. When we were talking before, I was telling you that I've stayed in at least 10 of your properties and loved each one so much I keep coming back, which I think is a really great sign. And Kit is also, if you don't know, she has a textile business, she has product, you know, does many different kinds of product design, and she is also a champion of British craft. So welcome, Kit.
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A
Thank you. I'm so delighted to be one of your guests.
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B
Thank you. So can you tell everybody how you got started in the business, the hotel business?
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A
I worked for a very charismatic architect called Leszek Nowitzki. He was a pre war Pole. He found his way to England via Siberia and down through Palestine and then to the uk. And he was the one person who would give me an opportunity because he was such a character. His clients were also very, very interesting and one of them was my future husband, Tim Kemp. And his projects were very small, but he was very practical and he really got on with them. And he had student hotels and he would link with the Richmond College, which was an American college, and the students would come over and stay in his hotels. So they were very sort of two star.
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B
The students like them. So they must have, I mean, they, they were they stylish in some way? They must have been.
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A
No, they weren't incredibly stylish, but there were that. They had lots of character because there'd be lots of guitar playing. And we were very young. And then of course, when we got together, we decided that maybe we would try and upgrade one of them when Tim managed to get a freehold building, and that was Dorset Square, so that was our very first building.
- [02:25]
B
So when you walk into a Kit Kemp Hotel, I mean, your signature is definitely on it, there's no doubt. But they all look very, very different. You know, Crosby Street Hotel in New York is very different than number 16 in London. Can you tell us how you put your stamp on them or, you know, what are the attributes of your stamp and how do you translate it to different properties.
- [02:46]
A
Well, it does depend on the size. Crosby street, of course, was a new build in SoHo in New York. It was a fabulous spot to actually be building. And that has about 90 rooms. Whereas number 16 is architecturally early 19th century stucco building, about three or four in a row. And that's an old building. So sometimes we're working with new builds and sometimes we're working with just architecturally interesting buildings. And each project will have its different sort of things that you have to look out for. But mainly I'm known for my craft loving art, always wanting to show a lot of craft, commissioning, lots of makers and an individual approach. I don't like large companies, I like to work with smaller individual people. And if something's handcrafted, it's always different, even if they make the same thing over and over again.
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B
And you love color too, right? I mean that's something that I get from your.
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A
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we're not, we're not scared of a bit of color. We like actually a lot of color. And although yes, here we can see Crosby street and here it's the art. So we've got a Jaumi Plenzer, a Jack Milroy, a Callum Innes and there's an Anselm Keifer and outside is a Botero. So fabulous artists. And actually I was able to buy a few of them when they were starting off and it's wonderful to see now that they have blossomed into really world class artists and sculptors.
- [04:21]
B
So when you are working on a hotel, where do you start? I mean, it seems like such an onerous undertaking. Like what is your starting point?
- [04:30]
A
Well, I mean, you always start off with butterflies in your tummy because if it's a new build, you haven't got anything. If you're working with an old building, at least you've got architect, you've got architectural detail that you want to maybe preserve and you can walk around the building. But if it's a new build and if you are the actual owner, which we are of our buildings, then we have to work from in a sense, the light. So we want to have very large windows also just to make sure that the routes within the hotel for all the different, for housekeeping, for events, for the kitchens, all that inside area works. And then once that starts working, then I can work out how my spaces are going to look really beautiful. And sometimes I can't think about the main lobby area. So I'll do various bedrooms and maybe a hallway and then build up and build up. And then once you get an idea under your belt, you're up and running and it's really exciting then and you're able to commission artists. You bring in your favorite sort of people that you like to work with and design with, and it then starts to become real teamwork.
- [05:45]
B
That is so much of the joy of it. I mean, that's one of my favorite things in my job, is just working with my teams. Right. I mean, it just so much, you know, everyone brings so much to the table, so. Well, one of the things that I think is so unique about your work is you're able to straddle, you know, fun and joy with a sophistication. And also there's a coziness, but there's also tons of style. Those are hard things to bridge. I think joyfulness and sophistication don't always go together, or style and warmth don't always go together. So I think that's a really unique aspect of your work.
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A
For me, it's interesting because I love folk art and I like folk art from all around the world, whether it's Guatemala or India or, you know, anywhere else in South America or England. And there's a difference because you don't want it to be childlike. It has to have a sophistication. It has to be very grown up at the same time. So there's always that balance between a sort of lyricism and joy in the design, but at the same time, the sophistication and something which is actually going to last. I don't really like design which I would say wears high heeled shoes. I like it to be a lasting look, one that you can build on.
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B
That's interesting. Do you have any personal hotel design pet peeves?
- [07:10]
A
Yes. One is when you arrive in a hotel and you're just going up to the reception desk and they all turn away to another direction. And I mean, you should be welcomed in a hotel. And I just. I just remember being there late at night and there was some very weary traveler coming in. And suddenly there was this little voice from behind our desk at Crosby street saying, hello and welcome to the Crosby Street Hotel. And you could see him sort of put back his shoulders and actually try and look and see who was saying it, because it was one of our receptionists called Lottie, who's only about 4 foot 11, and honestly, she could only see her nose above the reception desk. But it made a huge difference. And so we always say, you know, there should be a welcome and also sort of too Many wires all around the room and too much plastic. So those are my real bugs.
- [08:03]
B
Okay. Okay. I'm assuming when you're designing so, you know, you have a perspective, you have a very singular perspective. But what do you. I mean, you must look through your guest lens also, right? When you're designing.
- [08:18]
A
Yes. I mean, gosh, I mean, I'm mainly looking through the guest lens because I try and look at myself as no more than a guest. And as a guest, you really don't want to know what's going on behind the scenes. If you're having an event, you shouldn't hear what's going on in the next room. And the thing about a hotel is that every different area has to work extremely well. It's all very well having a beautiful room, but if it takes three quarters of an hour for your breakfast to come, or there are other things that are worrying you about the service, you're not going to enjoy it. So it's actually an all round thing. And although my part of it is design, I am so involved in everything else as well to try and make sure that it works as smoothly as possible. And actually you probably have to be a complete masochist to do what we do because there's always going to be something and when you least want it to happen.
- [09:14]
B
What do you think about the trend toward like, you know, technology where you order your food on an iPad and, you know, there seems to be less human connection or. I was in one hotel in Los Angeles where it was so hard to figure out how the lights work. How do you.
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A
Oh my goodness.
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B
Yeah, how does that fact, how does technology factor into your, into your hotel?
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A
You know, I mean, it's, I mean, I do agree with you because some of these systems, you need to have some kind of degree in technology to actually work the whole system and you end up not even switching on the television because it's too complicated. And of course, I mean, I'm at an age where there weren't all these things before, so I find it doubly difficult. I usually have to ask my children, but there's nothing ever going to take away from that one to one meeting that person who's, you know, delivering your room service or making your bed and, and you can say, I hate all the corners tucked in because my feet just can't budge. Please leave them out. You know, it's learning little things like that about your guests that make all the difference. So, I mean, that's what you're really striving for.
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C
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B
Okay, so talk about the small things. So I've been in some of your first of all, I love your hotel bathrooms. I love that they're all different. I love that, you know, they're really designed for the space. They're charming, especially at number 16. I mean, I've stayed at many rooms there and each bathroom is different and I get such a kick out of it. And they're also comfortable. So tell us about, you know, how far you go in your design, what, you know, because you're a woman of incredible taste and I'm sure you have opinions about the toiletries and all those things.
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A
Yeah, I do. And it's amazing how it just grows organically. So I wasn't a product designer, but over the years I have some. I have become one. And that because I'm interested in the perfumes of the toiletries, how I wanted the packaging done, and because I've designed so many different fabrics, I could then it's very interesting to do to design something in one metier and then take it to another. So to design a fabric or an embroidery and then put it and making it as part of a packaging for a perfume toiletry, whether it be a soap or a shampoo or a conditioner. And equally I wanted to create our own crockery. So that also was taking two of our designs. One is called Sailors Farewell and it's a lady saying farewell to her sailor husband. And it's his adventures that he's having above and below the waterline and desert islands and dogs and a little ship at sea and the frogman way down below. So, I mean, we have a lot of fun designing these things, and it really has added to everything that I'm doing. Including napkins. Yeah.
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B
So tell us about what other products, extensions do you have? You have napkins, you have china, you have beauty, like shampoo and conditioner and things like that?
- [13:54]
A
Yeah, all the shampoos, conditioners, and soaps. And then, of course, our furniture, because over the years, there's various sort of pieces of furniture that people have loved and asked for. So now with the shopkit Kemp, we're able to do that. So our handle chairs are terribly popular. Then our chairs, which have a little pocket in the side. And so various things that we've enjoyed actually creating and organically have grown over the years.
- [14:23]
B
Yeah. I was going to ask you, do people come in and say, you know, they stay in a hotel room, and they're like, I want that room. I have to have that room. Have you received that kind of inquiry, and have you been able to fulfill the whole thing? Do they need to hire you as an interior designer? How does that work?
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A
No, no, I'll just do it. Gosh. I mean, I'm thrilled if they do. And we have done that, and we've sent to all over the world, from Russia through to sort of Europe and the continent. So, yes, no, I'm thrilled to do that, and I'm very happy to do it without a design fee.
- [15:00]
B
Okay. One of your signature. One of the signature things that you do in your hotel rooms is you do very tall headboards. And I'm just curious how you landed on that. That idea. And usually they're covered in incredible fabrics, you know, so unique. And can you tell us a little bit about that process?
- [15:20]
A
Yes, I can. Because what happens is you've got the most glorious fabric, and then it gets all sort of curled and creased up into curtains, and you are not able to see the beautiful design. And there are so many fabulous designers creating wonderful fabrics. And so we actually thought, gosh, if you've got a high headboard, it actually works as a sort of showpiece for that particular fabric. So that's how it started. And then the shapes got more curious and more interesting. And then we thought, gosh, there are so many wonderful artists. Why don't we ask artists to actually create different headboards? And that's how it's evolved.
- [16:02]
B
Each one is such a unique conversation piece. And I think it must really. I mean, I think it changes the way a room feels. So obviously these things are not high performance. Right.
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A
You're always very much aware of back cloths and what you can use. And sometimes I say, oh, hey, I've just got to do that. And I think it's not going to last long. But other times I really am aware of how long things should last. I do a bit. I do a bit sometimes there. The fabrics are just so beautiful that it is just worth it for, you know, just a couple of years.
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B
Right. It helps that you own the hotel because you don't answer to anybody.
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A
Yeah, no, no, no. I can give myself a sack and reinstate myself the next day. Yeah.
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B
Are there any other signature. Signature ideas that you use in your. In your installation, in your hotel installations?
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A
Yeah, we always have our mannequins in the room, which are sort of life sized mannequins. And we've got very shapely Edwardian shapes. So there's a lovely bust and there's a lovely bottom. And we always use our fabrics on them, which are also related to the room. And people put their coats on them and put their hats on them, and it's a sculptural piece in the room. So I think that's something that we're also known for.
- [17:26]
B
And do you find that. So you have eight hotels in the UK or London, I guess. Right. And two in New York. Is the sense of color in both locations different?
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A
The light, it's so extraordinary. It's so very, very interesting. I mean, in the uk, I love the work of Vanessa Bell and Duncan Grant, who were Bloomsbury artists at the beginning of the 20th century, because their use of color is so good in a British light. And then you get a Mediterranean light, and then you get a Caribbean light. And then in New York, you'll actually get a bit of both. Because in summer it's very, very bright, and then in winter it can be cold and gray. So, yes, you're looking at very different things. And actually it's quite interesting because when I was doing the crockery for Sailors Farewell, I actually had it sent out to the Caribbean and looked at it in that light. It was going green and it didn't look good. So it's very important that some of your colors are actually able to be used almost everywhere. And I'm aware of that, too.
- [18:34]
B
Tell us a little bit about new construction versus old construction. You know, so I've heard designers say that new construction is much easier. You don't have as many limitations. Do you agree with that? And if so, are you ever, you know, likely to pass on an older, older building because of that?
- [18:52]
A
No. I mean, I'm always saying to my husband, why on earth can't we get a sort of architecturally just fabulous gem? And then it would be so easy to actually just work within it and make it look more beautiful. I think a new build is very, very difficult in a way. I mean, you can. The rooms can be the largest size, etc. And you can work with the light. But. But to actually get the character from the word go, to make it look as if it's meant to be, to make it feel comfortable from the word go I think is very difficult. And I mean, that is challenging. So an old building you're working with sometimes very confined spaces, so you have lots of nooks and crannies. A new building might be sort of rather more of a square shape, but doesn't have that character.
- [19:43]
B
And are the codes very different in New York and London?
- [19:47]
A
Oh, hey, the codes everywhere are hard. Health and safety just trying to get any building completed. There are moments where you're tearing your hair out, but, I mean, that's the name of the game. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. And you know, the other saying we always say is if you've got to make an omelette, if you make an omelette, you've got to break an egg. And that's the building process. Because nobody likes the building process. Your neighbors, nobody likes it. You're making noise, you're making dust, you're making dirt and rubble. But you've got to go through that process.
- [20:26]
B
I love all your sayings. They're fantastic. I'm going to write these down. They're really good. Have you made any expensive mistakes?
- [20:36]
A
Well, I don't like admitting to them. And the fact is that I have a very big budget, but I can't make huge mistakes. I mean, I have ordered lots of furniture once, which actually just never arrived, and that was an expensive mistake that I made. And I think once you've started, once you've made a mistake like that, you start to put a lot of different things in place and contracts in place so that nobody is going to have, you know, get really worried.
- [21:09]
B
Learn from it. All right?
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A
Yes. Yes.
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B
How often do you redecorate your hotels?
- [21:16]
A
Every three to five years. And we have a running program so we don't shut the hotels. Myself and my design team, well, my design team look after various buildings and I edit the designs and sometimes do a complete one, but so about. So, for example, as we opened the Whitby, we had just about completed redoing every room at the Crosby Street Hotel. And I presume actually as we open the Warren street Hotel in 18 months time, we'll have to do the same at the Whitby. And it's a rolling program and I think that's the joy actually of having a living space and a living building. It's not just keeping it exactly the same for the next seven years, it is how you move that forward and keep the whole space living and new and feeling fresh.
- [22:06]
B
That's interesting. So tell us, what advice would you have for an interior designer wanting to break into the hospitality business?
- [22:14]
A
Well, I get lots of lovely letters from people who want to join and some I can't consider because they haven't got the right background. And age is. Never comes into it. I like every age group. But what I would say is to get me to look twice, don't just write a letter, but also put in a scheme, put in your favourite fabrics, put it in a space. It doesn't have to be a space that you know, one that you would love to have. And I want to see how you work your fabrics, how you work your space, how your mind moves, whether you've actually created something new to go in it. And then you whet my appetite and I say, gosh, I've got to see that person. Great advice.
- [23:01]
B
Really great advice. Outside of your own hotels, do you have a favorite hotel?
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A
I can't possibly. Oh, outside my own hotel. I was going to say, don't ask me to choose my own. Well, do you know what? I love hotels for very different reasons. I mean, I love a big grand hotel like the Hotel du Palais, which is in Biarritz, because it was owned by the principality and so somehow it could be terribly grand without actually thinking of the cost. And when you went down to breakfast, I always felt like I was on the Titanic. You know, this room was. Had great big seas lashing in all around it. It was absolutely glorious. And then actually in France again, the Hotel Yaka, which is in a little cobbled street going down to Saint Tropez and literally you hear all the traffic going by, there are screeching of scooters and my husband and I are not incredibly tall, but we went into one of the bedrooms and literally you had to crouch like this when you went to the window and There was hardly anywhere to put all your soaps and things. But when you looked out the window and you saw all the rooftops, you felt like a student again. So, I mean, there are lots of different reasons as to why you love staying in different places.
- [24:18]
B
Okay. Someone once, you know, when I was at Domino, we did this thing called the Little Black Book, and we asked designers for tips and things. And David Netto said, if you put your bed on the floor, you'll feel 20 years younger, which I thought was such a fun.
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A
I haven't tried. That reminds me of camping. Yeah.
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B
Okay. I think I'll just ask you one more question. How do you balance color?
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A
Oh, balance color. Now that is it. I mean, I'm balancing. It's all about balance. It's so funny, because when I'm. When I'm working with my designers and I'm trying to edit their work and they're learning, the most difficult thing for them is balance. And you can almost just see it yourself when you're doing it. I see it myself. I find it difficult to edit other people's work, actually, because I visualize what I'm doing, and because sometimes I'm bending the rules. You have to be even more careful with balance. Otherwise, it doesn't look great. But again, I will use the same. I will use different colors. If you're looking through a door, you know, if you've got green in the room, there might be just yellow outside. And then you look beyond, and there's that tone of blue, so that you've got a kind of perspective of in front of you, a middle distance and a depth. And it's the same, actually. When you're designing a fabric, you don't want it to look too flat. You want to have one in front, middle, and a depth all the time, because that actually just brings life to your fabric or life into your interiors.
- [26:01]
B
Well, listen, it was so fabulous having you on. Thank you so much. It was really an honor and a pleasure, and I look forward to seeing more of you. I really appreciate it.
- [26:10]
A
It was an honor for me as well. And, you know, I've been. I've used so many Schumacher fabrics and love working in the States, so thank you. It's been a pleasure.
- [26:22]
B
Thank you. We'll look forward to seeing all of your new projects.
- [26:27]
A
Thanks for joining us today. Stay tuned for next week's episode of Deep Dive.