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- [00:01]
Emma Bazilian
Welcome to Deep Dive, a podcast series in which Frederick's editor in chief, Dara Caponigro, and fellow editors are joined by design industry leaders to share their unique insights, experiences and knowledge on the world of decorating. Welcome to today's Deep Dive. I'm Emma Bazilian, the content director of Frederick magazine, and I am thrilled to introduce you to our guest, Martin Brnicki. Martin is the founder of his eponymous interior architecture and design studio that has masterminded some truly iconic projects, including London's private members club, Annabelle's and Harry's bar, soho Beach House in Miami, and the Beekman here in New York City, among many, many others. Thank you so much for joining us today, Martin. So let's dive in.
- [00:50]
Martin Brnicki
Hi, Emma, thank you for having me here today. I'm delighted to be chatting with you.
- [00:54]
Emma Bazilian
Growing up in Stockholm, your mother was a stylist, retail interior designer, I believe, and your father was an engineer. How do you think their blend of approaches to the world around them influenced you?
- [01:08]
Martin Brnicki
Well, I think most of my influence has come from my mother, who has, since I was a young boy, always, I always thought she was so incredibly stylish, so elegant. And he sort of embraced style and design and sort of become part of life to the point, like every day. Even you set your table for dinner on a Wednesday and it's set. It's all a sort of a design journey. It's all about enjoyment of beautiful things around you, from cutlery to plates to napkins to the smallest, smallest details. That's what you sort of taught me. My father was an engineer. Of course, that meant he was very organized, and I probably inherited that trait from him. But my father was of the sort of very old world persuasion that children should not be heard or seen.
- [02:02]
Emma Bazilian
Well, I mean, I guess that gave you more time to, you know, read and kind of go off in your own world and really imagine things.
- [02:09]
Martin Brnicki
It made me a real mummy's boy, I think.
- [02:14]
Emma Bazilian
So after you graduated from high school, you actually studied business at university and then worked as a model before you decided to get to interior design and architecture. What made you transition to that career? What made you decide to, you know, take this on as your. Your life?
- [02:32]
Martin Brnicki
Well, this sort of decision to study design and working as a model sort of happened sort of in tandem. I sort of postponed my studies for about a year because I got some sort of contracts in Japan and in France. So I decided to just take a year to postpone my studies by years. I could sort of experience that life. But then After a year I sort of decided it was time to start studying and as well the, the world went into recession at that time, so, you know, work sort of dried up.
- [03:04]
Emma Bazilian
Now what was your trajectory like studying design and architecture? Were you focused on one over the other?
- [03:13]
Martin Brnicki
I studied at the American University in, in London. And it was sort of like quite a full on course in the sense. You had color theory, you had all of the different disciplines of design, you had drafting, then you had like, this is like commercial design, residential design. And each course, each segment of the course dealt not only with like furniture and cushions and curtain, it dealt as well with architectural envelopes because most of the teachers at the American College when I went there came from the Architectural association, so they were architects. And one of my favorite teachers who worked with Saha did and set up her office and you know, and he's still today a great friend, his name is Michael Wolfson. And you know, so, so it was a great course because you got both worlds sort of joined as one basically.
- [04:05]
Emma Bazilian
Now were you always interested in hospitality design or did you kind of know early on that that's what you wanted to focus on?
- [04:13]
Martin Brnicki
Well, when I was studying I really enjoyed the courses where we actually designed a shop or a restaurant. I sort of enjoyed it because it's, it's about coming up with a narrative, a story that is sort of like you weave into the design. I thought that was fascinating. So it was something that interested me from get go.
- [04:34]
Emma Bazilian
And I read that you actually ended up working for Michael Wolfson after you graduated.
- [04:38]
Martin Brnicki
Correct? I did.
- [04:40]
Emma Bazilian
And you also worked for David Gill who was a gallerist, and then David Collins who's obviously a hugely influential designer. What did you learn from, you know, working for these three great talents?
- [04:52]
Martin Brnicki
So from Michael I still learned to understand the sort of, that the approach to design because Michael on one hand was as a deconstructivist with these sort of like flying modern forms, basically creating buildings. And on the other hand he was a great classicist who really understood, sort of have the hierarchy of space in a, in a country house, for instance. So he did some very. Like he worked on an old castle in Switzerland, plus then working on his incredible furniture that was so avant garde at that time. So he. I learned to understand, to look at the world and appreciate many different styles and many different approaches. That's what that taught me. Then working for David Gill, it was like a deep dive into how do you make complicated furniture. And it sort of learned different construction, different materiality, like from bronze to glass. To all of these different elements, how can you control those materials and make it into a piece of furniture? And then David Collins really taught me, how do you build a project? How do you physically build it? How do you run a project? What are the stages and how do you go from the beginning to completion?
- [06:11]
Emma Bazilian
I mean, it's funny looking at, you know, I've seen some of David Collins Studio's hospitality work as well. And, you know, you can see that kind of that world building that goes into it, which I think, you know, you've taken to this kind of fantastical, colorful level that, you know, you feel like when you walk into one of these spaces, you are completely whisked away into a completely new place. And, you know, you're within someone's story, which I feel is really interesting.
- [06:39]
Martin Brnicki
But I think that's very important because commercial work should be immersive because I think you, you, you going to stay in hotel, you're going to dine in a restaurant, and it's sort of, what do you call it? Value for money, if you want to use that phrase. It's sort of, you had really taken away. It might not be your style, you might not want to have it at home, but it's something that you'll enjoy for the, like, the couple of hours you dine in a restaurant to the couple of days you stay in a hotel.
- [07:05]
Emma Bazilian
Before I really knew much about the design world, my mother was a residential interior designer. And I always thought that hospitality design was, you know, that was kind of, that was the boring thing because everything kind of looked the same and, you know, there wasn't a lot of room to, you know, explore and create something new. And I'm wondering, is that, do you think something that, you know, especially over the last 20 or so years, we've seen so many incredible projects that do feel so one of a kind. Do you think that's something that people are looking for more when they travel? They don't want to feel like they're in a chain hotel, even if it's a beautifully appointed one. They want to feel like they're somewhere special.
- [07:42]
Martin Brnicki
Yes, but to go back to the, you know, you said your mother, she, she worked as a residential interior designer. You thought commercial design was dull, and it was sort of like in the 80s, and it started changing in the 1990s. So I think that sort of was the approach and, and of course, the sort of. With the Internet and etc. Everything sort of opened up more. So it sort of give. Gave scope to give people experiences And I think that's what most people are looking for. Some people love the sort of comfort of staying in Four Seasons because they know wherever you go, it's going to be the same. And sometimes that is a nice thing. You know, I remember I went on a trip somewhere and it, I think it went terribly wrong. We need to find somewhere to stay and we've, you're still here support seasons. So we knew what that was. We knew the comfort, we knew the service. And it was the perfect thing to do just to go there, check in, and we're just like, thank God. And sometimes it's a good thing.
- [08:42]
Emma Bazilian
We're going to take a quick break to thank the sponsor of today's Show, Schumacher. Since 1889, the fifth generation family business has been the go to source for textiles, wallpapers and trims. Their insatiable passion for luxury, beauty and quality have produced designs that transcend time and rise above the ordinary. So head to Schumacher.com to check it out.
- [09:08]
Martin Brnicki
I think it's important these commercial products has a sense of place that they sort of key in with where they are. And I think that will make them different because I think if they said if they respond to their neighborhoods, that means that local people will use them as well. And that means that when you come as a guest from a foreign country, you sort of, you get a flavor of people in their own environment and city, which I think is great.
- [09:36]
Emma Bazilian
And how do you go about building these stories for your projects?
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Martin Brnicki
Always starts with the client. The client is the initial inspiration for what we're trying to achieve. And so we look at the client, what he wants, he or she wants to do, and then we will take that and we look at the building, we look at the street, we look at that neighborhood the building is in, and then the city and the country and all of this. We sort of look for stories, we look for like anecdotes, stories, interesting artists that might be inspiration. So we just look at all different creative elements within a city, neighborhood, street, building, clients, interest, and from there we probably collect quite a lot of information. And then we distill that and we find the story we want to tell.
- [10:26]
Emma Bazilian
And what role does architecture play? I mean, are you generally working within the bounds of the space that you're given or do you feel like you're often kind of creating an architectural story from scratch?
- [10:39]
Martin Brnicki
Sort of depending on, depending on the project. On some project you have a beautiful old building and then, and it's, it sort of has its own story, it sort of helps and on certain projects, we work on a new construction, and sometimes we even. Most of the times, we have to comment and get involved with the design of the facade to ensure actually it responds to what we're doing inside. That happens very often. And even on residential projects, I've sort of redesigned the facade of new buildings that we designed for. For our clients as their homes, because I just realized they would hate the buildings the architect had designed. So I had to sort of like it because it would just be problematic in the end when they move in and they just hate the building because they have. You know, their people are so busy, they don't have time. They don't want to think about these things. So it's sort of. It was me sort of. Me sort of trying to sort of, you know, where you're trying to sort of avoid a disaster.
- [11:36]
Emma Bazilian
I was flipping through some of your projects last night, and there's a thread that connects all of them, but they also each feel so specific and so different and so special. What is that thread, do you think?
- [11:51]
Martin Brnicki
I think it's sort of a matrix. Like, if you remove all finishes, if you remove the style from the place, and you're left with a diagram, I think then our places are very similar and it comes to how we light them. Where is the light source? That is the thing that's the same almost in all our spaces, but because we sort of understand how space needs to be lit so that you can control the atmosphere from, you know, from morning to night, which is sort of crucial.
- [12:20]
Emma Bazilian
Is there anything about the way that you light a space that you think really translates not just to hospitality, but just to the way people light their homes?
- [12:29]
Martin Brnicki
Yeah, but the thing is to avoid this overhead lighting, to sort of keep that to a minimum. Down light is like a big. No, no for me. Have a beautiful bulkhead light or a chandelier or something, and overhead light as well. Should every light on a dimmer. But then I think it's about pools of light at eye level around the room. Like in this. I'm in the country right now in my drawing room, and I have around, like, 24 lights, like table lamps and standard lamps dotted around the whole room. And. And plus I have all lights, and with that, I can control the atmosphere, which is very important.
- [13:04]
Emma Bazilian
And are there any other things that you've drawn from hospitality design that you find is also applicable to residential design in a way that people might not think about?
- [13:16]
Martin Brnicki
Well, it's more about how we approach a project with narrative, but with residential design, it's more about the client, it's more about their life. It's very similar. The client is. This beginning is the inspiration of any project that we sort of take on and we look into. So the approach of commercial and residential, the beginning is very. Is very much the same, but when it comes to the end, product is very different because quality of residential design is very different from commercial design.
- [13:52]
Emma Bazilian
When you started your firm, I believe it was in 2000, you launched your studio. How have you seen the. Just the way that hospitality and commercial design is approached change over the last almost 25 years?
- [14:08]
Martin Brnicki
Well, I think commercial design has become more and more fantastical, which I think is amazing because that's sort of what I like to do. But as well, it's the idea of there's so many different styles, there's so many different approaches, there's so much variety out there. And I think that is the great thing. The idea of a trend is sort of gone, which I like. So it's more. There are lots of different things. So you can sort of like go out for dinner every night of the week and have a different stylistic experience in any city.
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Emma Bazilian
You do get the feeling that we're at a point where everything is trending all the time.
- [14:48]
Martin Brnicki
Yes, correct. And I think there's like. I mean, I've sort of what I do today. I mean, I always like to explore different things and projects have sort of given me that opportunity. Like Annabelle's made me be able to look at the very layered, sort of over the top, some people would say, sort of interior design scheme and some other projects sort of. I can sort of look at it in a more simpler way. So I sort of. It's a sort of what I call the four pillars of design. So you have minimalism, you have maximalism, you have modernism, you have classicism. I pick from those now and sort of mix things together. And it's not about. I have approach to every job and this is what it is. It has to look like this. It's not that I find it much more exciting when I can look at a project and it's a challenge. It's not something I've done before or, you know, I'm not known for doing like sort of beige spaces. But then when a client wants me to do it, I find it. I take on that challenge because I want to do it my way, which is sort of very interesting. So we just finished a hotel in New York on the Upper east side called the Surrey. And the funny thing with that project, we didn't do the restaurant or the bar, but we did the reception and all the bedrooms. So. And that was my way of looking at sort of doing a more neutral scheme where the pops of color.
- [16:11]
Emma Bazilian
Yeah, it's funny, I really, I associate your work so much with color and this kind of, you know, explosive energy. But I was looking through some of the. The rooms at the Beekman and was surprised to find that there is, you know, this very quiet, you know, lightness about them.
- [16:28]
Martin Brnicki
That was the whole point. Because the atrium that sort of, the rooms sort of go around is sort of a very busy area. Lots of color and lots of layering of rugs and lights and etc. So when you get up to your room, you. You wanted something a bit more quiet. It was that sort of approach. You don't want a busy room.
- [16:50]
Emma Bazilian
Now I wanted to talk a bit about Annabelle's because that must have been such an incredible project to take on. What was your approach to that? And, you know, kind of knowing just the history and just, you know, how iconic it is and how large it looms in the public consciousness.
- [17:07]
Martin Brnicki
And that was the sort of challenge. And that was as well, my client, Richard caring his sort of challenge and sort of nervousness. How would we approach this? Because Annabelle actually was a nightclub. It was always just a nightclub in a sort of country house style, two doors up. And now suddenly it was a whole building. So it was day club, nightclub. It was sort of everything. And so I believe we started looking actually at the nightclub and we sort of did a version of what was in. In, you know, the, the original Annabelle's. And then we moved on to the ground floor, which was sort of the reception and the sort of day restaurant and the terrace. And my idea that was to do some sort of like the idea of the English garden and the garden room. So we sort of created, you know, the design that you've seen today is called the Rose Room, is this beautiful mural, painted walls of trellises and roses, incredible rose onyx bar, sort of backlit, etc, and then the beautiful, beautiful terrace. So terrace, garden. And once we had done that, Richard looked and said, this is beautiful, it's what I want. But then we went back and just looked at the basement. We realized this is not going to work. So we had to do it again. And I built on a narrative because when we started the nightclub, I hadn't done a narrative really, but just like, let's just tweak the old Annabelle's. But now I sort of really started looking at the narrative. And the whole thing became about floor and fauna. Because Richard, he loves animals and he loves nature. So let's make this all about, celebrate, you know, his two big passions, nature and animals. So I then started looking at. So the ground floor became the English garden. It's all about the English garden. And then the floor above that became the sort of like Indian and Brazilian gardens. And then you had the Mexican restaurant at the top about Mexican, sort of American side of. Of flora, fauna. And then they get back down into the basement. And so what I thought, what should I do here now? And I sort of decided that the narrative was about Paradise Lost, the fall of. The fall of man, because that always happens at the end of a night in a nightclub. So that would be work very well. So that's what it became. It became about jungle and animals and tigers and leopards and snakes and all of these sort of things. And it's just a really fun place to be.
- [19:30]
Emma Bazilian
I think it's interesting how, you know, maybe 20 years ago, people working in hotel design wanted to create the feeling of a home away from home. And now you see hotel and commercial design influencing the way that people look at their residences. Like they want to feel like they are, you know, in some fabulous place. And do you find that that is true among your clients?
- [19:54]
Martin Brnicki
When someone comes to me, a private client, saying, I would like my home to look like, let's say, the Fifth Avenue Hotel in New York, I would say absolutely not. Absolutely not. You can't live in that. That's an immersive experience for a short space of time. It's about taking you away from the world, taking you away from New York while you're there. I think home is something completely different. And so you need to start on a different sort of different set of narratives for that. So I would not try to copy any of my commercial work.
- [20:34]
Emma Bazilian
Do you still find that you are coming into these projects with a story in mind?
- [20:40]
Martin Brnicki
Oh, yes, always. Always. But when it comes to a residential project, it's a discussion with the client to really sort of figure out what's their home about, you know, what do they love. And normally there is a building, you know, they have a building, and the building will help you to create the story. If the building is a beautiful turn of the century piece of architecture, amazing, that sort of will help you. And if it's a large apartment in modern glass block, then that sort of becomes really about the clients and their story and what these spaces are about.
- [21:17]
Emma Bazilian
How do you know when a project.
- [21:19]
Martin Brnicki
Is done that's the great thing with commercial projects, because it will be done because it has to open to be commercially viable for the clients. That's a great thing. And we are very efficient. So, you know, we sort of make sure that everything is done and then it opens. Residential product, hand, sort of dragon. We try to sort of finish it and sort of style it and get the art in if the client wants it. If they don't want it, it's gonna be their own journey after we are finished.
- [21:49]
Emma Bazilian
Who or what inspires you lately?
- [21:52]
Martin Brnicki
What sort of does inspire me on a daily basis when it comes to work is sort of the conversations that I have with my team, with my newly appointed creative director, Jill McKitchen, in my studio with, and as well with clients. These things are inspirational communication, talking to people about design, exchanging ideas that I find fascinating. I think you learn lots from that, and that's something that gives you a lot of food for thought.
- [22:23]
Emma Bazilian
And where do you find visual inspiration yourself? Is it through travel? Through film? Through art?
- [22:30]
Martin Brnicki
Yeah, it's all of the above. It's like everything is difficult to say because I sort of. I look at a lot of things, and then one day I'll be doing a project and I would sort of remember it. It's such a natural process. Someone that I worked with many years ago always said that when I walk into a space, I sort of. I sort of suck it all in within, like, three seconds, and then I get on with my life. And that's. That's sort of very true. I sort of take it all in, store it, and then I move on.
- [22:56]
Emma Bazilian
And if you were not running a design firm doing interior design, architecture, what do you think you would be doing?
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Martin Brnicki
Probably something in fashion, I think. Don't know what? No idea, but probably.
- [23:09]
Emma Bazilian
And last thing I wanted to ask you is what advice would you give to a young designer who is looking to make their mark in hospitality design?
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Martin Brnicki
Stick to your guns. Do your thing. Stick to your guns. People are gonna say, like, oh, well, you know, if it doesn't work out in three years, you should give it up. And people said that to me because what I was doing, that it was colorful. It was all of that sort of stuff that people like, no, no one's gonna want that. Every want beige. But I stuck to it. I stuck to it, and I stuck to it and I stuck to it. And this is where I am today. So I really believe you need to be tough. Tough as nails. Be brave and strong and stick to your own story.
- [23:50]
Emma Bazilian
Thanks for joining us today. Stay tuned for next week's episode of Deep Dive.