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- [00:01]
Dara Caponigro
Welcome to Deep Dive, a podcast series in which Frederick's editor in chief, Dara Caponigro and fellow editors are joined by design industry leaders to share their unique insights, experiences, and knowledge on the world of decorating.
- [00:17]
Tori Malotte
I'm Tori Malotte, Frederick's style director, and welcome to today's Deep Dive. I'm so excited to introduce our guest, Jeremiah Brent, a celebrated interior designer. Jeremiah is the founder of Jeremiah Brent design and lifestyle brand at Trio. He also currently stars alongside his husband and fellow interior designer Nate Berkus as the host of the Nate and Jeremiah home project. And he hosts his own podcast, idea of Order. I'm so curious. Between your interiors projects, television shows, product collections, and raising to small children, and much more, it's amazing that you could join us. I want to know, how do you juggle at all?
- [01:02]
Jeremiah Brent
Well, I don't sleep, so there's the first problem. No, I don't know how I juggle. I'm still trying to figure that out, to be honest with you. My husband always says that he thought he moved through the world quickly until he met me. And I like, you know, leave him in the dust. I think I've always kind of moved at a million miles per hour, but I really love what I do and the fact that I get to kind of work through my passion, doing what I love, I think is always kind of the fuel. But I don't know, I like it when I have, like a quiet weekend alone or when there's, like, nothing to do on a Saturday. I start to spin out. So I'm probably broken, is the short answer. You know, don't look to me hardly.
- [01:44]
Tori Malotte
Broken, but I get to get antsy if there's, like, not enough action.
- [01:48]
Jeremiah Brent
So anti. My husband's like, this is what a weekend is. You just relax, like, calm down. But I'm like, what should we do? Should we walk? Should we do something? So, yeah.
- [01:58]
Tori Malotte
Well, to do everything that you do, you must be on some level, very business savvy as well as creative. I want to know, how do you go back and forth between the left and right brain, and is it hard to do both?
- [02:12]
Jeremiah Brent
When I started my business, I had to be everything. Every part of my business I was trying to figure out. I think, you know, now that I'm 12 years in, I have really worked hard to kind of bring in people that could help facilitate and grow the company in a smart way. You know, I know what I know and I know what I don't, which I think is a really important thing, especially as you build out your company to understand what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. I have always maintained that everything I do will always be led with intentionality. You know, I'm not creating things to sell them. I'm not, which is hard through it, like a hard lens to kind of process those. That's because that's what we do. But I've gotten really lucky. I have an amazing support group of people that I've had for a long time. All smart, intelligent, creative women that push me when I need to be pushed, and vice versa. I have a really great support system, but I like taking risks and taking chances and I'm very good at failing. So I think that for business, for me, you know, I think what's been great about that is I'm not afraid to take a risk because if it doesn't work, usually it doesn't work, but something else opens itself up through that process and then I go to take that road and see where that takes us. And I have a group of people around me that are patient enough to navigate it with me.
- [03:35]
Tori Malotte
And you said, you know your strengths and your weakness. Would you say your strength is creativity? And I mean, is your weakness the business aspect of it, or are there parts of both?
- [03:48]
Jeremiah Brent
No, I think I can do, I can do all of them, but I can't do all of them well. And so what I put an important distinction that I made this last, these last two years. I started asking myself, like, as I grow and scale, what are the things that only I can do? Like, you know, what, which is for me, creativity strategy. I, I'm absolutely obsessed with, you know, really coming up strategically with things in ways that we can kind of grow and, and scale and evolve. That feels different to kind of what my predecessors have done or what you kind of see historically. It's a really exciting time for design and it's cross category and it's non exclusionary with price points. And you can really live beautifully in different ways now. And for me though, the creativity part of what I do is what started my business. It's what fuels it. It's still what fuels it. So I feel like I put in There were like 12 years where you just dig in and do everything, you know, you know better than anybody. You just kind of got to be scrappy and figure it out. And now I'm at a point where I let the people that are smarter strategically than I am in a room deal with it.
- [04:54]
Tori Malotte
I like that. That's, that's probably good advice for everyone.
- [04:57]
Jeremiah Brent
Yeah. It's hard, but it. I think you got to get out of your own way at some point, you know, and at some point, like, it outgrew what my capabilities are. And I like having a sounding board of people that I can say, am I crazy? Does this sound good? Do you think I've lost my mind? And they can look at me and be like, yeah, you need to sit down. So.
- [05:17]
Tori Malotte
Well, that's really interesting that you can actually have people who can be really candid with you, because I find that's. I feel like that's very difficult to find people who can be very direct. Now, Nate Burkus is your partner in life, your husband, and in some aspects of business. What is it like to work with your husband? How do you navigate that? And I want to know, because I'm sure you don't always see eye to eye on things. How do you find a resolution?
- [05:47]
Jeremiah Brent
Yeah, I mean, it is an absolute nightmare working with your spouse. Now, um, listen, I think that it's a. Well, there's a couple points, I think. First, he's my favorite person in the world. I don't know about any other marriage or relationships, but I know ours. He is still my favorite person. You know, I think we have a unique experience professionally because, you know, when I met Nate, we were at very different phases of our careers. I had, like, $2 to my name and was, like, doing projects that were $10,000 for an entire home, and I was taking anything I could. And he was, you know, had just finished his talk show and had been on Oprah for 20 years, and, you know, has this massive design firm. But he always respected me creatively. He always. There was never this weird hierarchy. There was never a competitiveness. Competitiveness with the way that we created. There was always the utmost respect. And so I think that foundation, from the second we met until now, which, obviously, the firm is different and my career has grown and, you know, knock on wood continues to grow. And I think we taught each other a lot. Ironically, you know, I'm super contemporary and modern and weird as shit with my. In my interiors. And he's like, historic, traditional, prestige. You know, we're very different, and we've pushed each other a lot and I think realized a lot through our collaborations like that that's really the sweet spot. And it's really the interesting place is when you can kind of come together and there's no feelings when it comes to design. There's feelings with everything else, but there's no feelings when it comes to creating, like, I can look at him and say, he's a fraud and he has no taste. And he'll be like. He'll be like, okay, I guess we can get rid of that console, you know. Now I can't say that kind of thing if it's anything to do with our personal life. But. But I don't know. I. I'm also, like, somebody who. I can sit down and have, like, an emotional. Like, talk about our feelings for three hours, which used to drive him crazy, but he's, you know, picked up on it. So we just talk through everything a lot.
- [07:49]
Tori Malotte
And what's. What would you say your best advice for couples who are looking to work together? What's your best advice?
- [07:58]
Jeremiah Brent
Like with their home or just in general?
- [08:00]
Tori Malotte
No, I think just generally, because I think it probably. Your best advice can probably go across categories, you know, if they want to work together in a PR firm or, you know, or interior design. But what's your best advice for couples who are looking to work together?
- [08:16]
Jeremiah Brent
I am a firm believer in boundaries. And, you know, I think it is a word that doesn't get enough attention that it needs, you know, anything that Nate and I do professionally or personally, I always am thinking ahead and forecasting out how we can talk through what we are going to need from each other and. And what's off limits. You know, for example, with design television, saying to each other, like, if you don't agree with something or you don't like the way I'm. I'm moving through something, you need to pull me aside and talk about it right there and then don't hold onto it because it festers and it builds up and you can see it, and it turns into something. It doesn't need to be something as simple as the way we design in our house, where if somebody says, I absolutely do not like that, there is no conversation around it. There's no room for argument, because we made a decision that that is a boundary that we don't cross, and we move on and you find something else. Working together can be really hard, and it can be really complicated, but we have always been really good about establishing boundaries for ourselves and for our relationship and making sure that we know that work is work. It's going to go so far. But what happens when we come home and what we provide and how we show up for our kids is the most important part. And. And if it can't be fun and we can't have fun with it, then what the hell are we doing it for?
- [09:34]
Tori Malotte
I love that. That's such good advice to be able to separate work and personal.
- [09:40]
Jeremiah Brent
Yeah, I mean, it's easier said than done. I mean, it was trial and error, but I love creating with him. I really do. We. I mean, we always have a good time, though he's not hard to love. He's pretty easy.
- [09:51]
Tori Malotte
Your style has been described as creative, California Modern. Is that how you would describe your style? And if not, how would you describe your style?
- [10:03]
Jeremiah Brent
You know, what's hard is that I wouldn't describe my style as that, but I understand why. That's kind of what people do, how people describe me. I think, you know, having grown up in California, there is this kind of ease to what I do, and there is a calmness and a serenity, and I definitely love contemporary lines. I think, you know, the irony is, the vast majority of what my firm does, and we've got, you know, 35 projects from coast to coast, is that nobody will ever see it. You know, we've got very private clients who don't want to share it, which I love. But the thing that is the most special to me is that nothing looks like the same thing. Everything is so different. And so what I would like to be known for and what I'm hoping that we continue to strive for and what we continue to be kind of labeled as is, you know, I. I want to be somebody who people go, oh, no, every space is different because he only every home is so original to the owners that are there. You know, I want to be known as somebody who is obviously creating original spaces, but also does traditional, does contemporary, does, like, random and weird, because everybody's different. And I don't like the idea of being pigeonholed, is just doing one thing. So that's really my goal, is I want people to be like. I don't want to be known as, like, the modern kid, you know, although I'm not a kid, but you know what I mean?
- [11:25]
Tori Malotte
I want to go back to the beginning of your career, which is rooted in the fashion world. You famously worked for star stylist Rachel Zo. How has fashion and those roots informed your eye for interiors?
- [11:40]
Jeremiah Brent
Oh, so much. It still does. I love fashion. And, you know, fashion before interiors, at least commercially and in the United States, it was the first, you know, medium that you really figured out that you can play with and have fun and express yourself and mixed materials and patterns and. And design eras and vintage and new and old designs. Having that now, which is really exciting. People are understanding that it doesn't need to be prescriptive. Which is. Which it has been for so long. And that beauty is layered and complicated. But it's. Fashion for me is still always. It's like, I love interiors. It's definitely how I show love and how I create. But fashion's a close second. And watching Rachel Zo, who, you know, when I worked with her, it was like it was the peak. It was the time she was doing everything. And her. What I appreciated about her is that she, she trusted herself always with what she was doing. She knew exactly what she wanted to do and how she wanted to do it. And, you know, it was. I always call that time for me, this, like, lesson in professionalism. I remember sitting back and I didn't. I realized really soon I did not want to be a stylist, but what I did want to do was walk through life creatively with the autonomy and the authority that she had. I had a lot of respect for the way she worked.
- [13:02]
Tori Malotte
Well, that's so interesting. Also, I would like to, for the record, note that you are a fashion icon. You were the first man, I think it was five or six years ago, you were the first man to resurrect the pleated pant. And it was so chic. I was like, oh my gosh, I haven't seen that. I saw it on you in a picture and I was like, that's, that's it. I was like, that's the next thing. 100% so.
- [13:31]
Jeremiah Brent
Oh, my God. From your mouth to God. I mean, listen, I love a high waisted pleat moment more than anybody in the world. I still do the 20s, 30s, even the 40s. I thought there's just, there's such a quiet luxury to a lot of those silhouettes. But, you know, Nate used to always make fun of me. He's like, you look like my grandfather. But I'm like, that's fine with me. That's what I'm going for. Your grandfather in his peak years, that's the, that's the vibe.
- [13:55]
Tori Malotte
Well, I have to say I see a lot of men in New York City sort of like wearing that look now. And I'm always like, I saw it on Jeremiah first.
- [14:06]
Jeremiah Brent
Thank you. I put a pair on the other day actually, and my daughter was like, what are you wearing? I was like, do, do not come for me. I felt good this morning. Foreign.
- [14:19]
Dara Caponigro
We're going to take a quick break to thank the sponsor of today's Show, Schumacher. Since 1889, the fifth generation family business has been the go to source for textiles, wallpapers, and Trims their insatiable passion for luxury, beauty and quality have produced designs that transcend time and rise above the ordinary. So head to Schumacher.com to check it out.
- [14:43]
Tori Malotte
You said that successful interior design is above all else, a personal reflection of one's past, present and future. How do you attain that?
- [14:55]
Jeremiah Brent
Well, I think, you know, when I started, I wrote, when I wrote the space that keeps you the whole, I was trying to understand why, you know, nobody ever leaves. There's some people that you meet that they move into their home and they never leave. And I had always had the fan this fantasy of, like I householding all the echoes of every experience. And they didn't understand why we had moved so much. And as I started going through, over the course of two years, I started to understand that these people, their lives, their spaces, everything was so rich with history. Obviously, there were things from their past and experiences. There was things that from currently that they had purchased or found or the way they were living in the present. But they also left room for the future, which I thought was so beautiful because so much of design. I've used this word before, but it feels very prescriptive. And I am very much trying to swim upstream in the sense that, you know, I'm sure you can attest to this. The most beautiful and memorable spaces I've walked into had nothing to do with how much money somebody spent on it, with the prestige of the art or, you know, the antiquities, and at everything to do with walking into a room and really feeling and understanding who those people are like intrinsically the second you walk in. And that's my kind of current obsession. And what I kind of always charge the office and our firm with is obviously creating original spaces, but creating routes for people. You know, my fantasy is that you, we create room, these homes for people, and they never want to leave. So I think you can do that Macro and Microsoft. It can be a coffee table where you've got a crystal from your wedding or a vase that you collected. It can be a book that you found that's beautiful to you now. But there also needs to be this opportunity for space and evolution, which we don't talk about in our homes.
- [16:44]
Tori Malotte
We're going to talk more about your book in just a little bit. But I first want to know about your product design process. You've done a lot of product. You've done a nursery collection with Pottery Barn. You and Nate do a living spaces line. You have a paper, just to name a few. But when you're working on these things, how do you make it feel fresh and new? And where do you find the inspiration?
- [17:13]
Jeremiah Brent
I mean, everywhere is the short answer. I think I've always been very obsessed with this idea of conflict. When I did an office for Ryan Murphy, I brought the 70s and the 30s together and tried to find these parallels with how we would create them. The same thing goes with product. You know, there's. Obviously, it's all. It's always complicated because my references are always very bespoke, obscure, and then I need to find a way to make them also commercially viable and something that people can actually bring into their homes in a way that feels transitional. And so I like that. I like that challenge. I'm always pulling things, actually just cleared the board in my office, but usually it looks like a serial killer. And here I take pictures that I find and rip them out and tape them up, or there's a picture that my daughter drew or my son drew, and I like the way they've outlined something or the font that they wrote me a letter on. I think I'm. I'm always looking for inspiration, and I sketch even though I'm not. I didn't go to school, and I'm not properly educated. I've always drawn my ideas since day one. I still draw floor plans and if I have a chair idea, but I love that part. I'm always super respectful of the idea of what it means to purchase something and bring it into your home. Whether it's $29 or, you know, $29,000, it should still provide you that same satisfaction.
- [18:34]
Tori Malotte
You recently launched your home retail concept store at Trio, which is online and also a brick and mortar store in California. What made you want to open a store in the age of online shopping?
- [18:50]
Jeremiah Brent
I know I'm very controversial. I still love retail. I really believe in it. I mean, when I. You know, we grew up with no money, and I remember, you know, walking around and going into stores. I remember Macy's was a big department, and you could kind of walk around. I remember walking in and, like, you know, traveling visually because that's what the story provided me. And there was always a sense of discovery. So I really believe in retail, especially with home. You know, Atria was conceived to kind of be this bridge between beauty and story. You know, the idea of, like, everything comes into your house can be something important and special. When I was growing up, my grandmother was really think. She was like three feet tall in Portuguese and mean. Mean as hell. But she was really sweet to me. She always was really nurturing and Loving to me. And she had this atrium in her backyard. And I remember being 10 years old and sitting at it and looking around, and everything that was in that atrium was rooted in nurturing and creativity and warmth. And I remember thinking to myself, is this how my grandmother perceives herself? Is this who she is? But she can't outwardly communicate this way? And so that was really what Atrio, the birth of Atrio, was about, was creating a space where you could find those things that articulated parts of you or your story. So that is the. That was where it was born from, you know, and it's. It's been a real labor of love, let me tell you.
- [20:14]
Tori Malotte
Yeah, retail is a tough. It's a tough, yes.
- [20:17]
Jeremiah Brent
It's a beast, and it's a balance. But, you know, what's interesting is it's done so beautifully, and as we grow and scale, you know, again, trying to make sure we do it intelligently, but there is a void. And there is. There are people that are looking for reason. They want to know why they're buying something. They want to know why they're bringing it into their home. You know, Gen Z doesn't care about a legacy brand. They're not. They don't care if they buy from Crate and Barrel, Pottery Barn, or Etsy. They just want it to matter. They want what they buy to matter. And I. That. That I can connect to that.
- [20:55]
Tori Malotte
Now, I want to talk about your book, which is so exciting. First of all, is this your first book?
- [21:00]
Jeremiah Brent
That's my first.
- [21:01]
Tori Malotte
Oh, congratulations. It's such a labor of love.
- [21:04]
Jeremiah Brent
Holy moly.
- [21:06]
Tori Malotte
And it's called the Space that keeps you. And you explored what gives spaces meaning by talking with families from various backgrounds and lifestyles. What did you discover makes a house a home and talking to all these people?
- [21:24]
Jeremiah Brent
Well, what was interesting is, you know, like I said to you, we'd moved 10 times in 10 years, and Nate and I were like, what is wrong with us? Like, something's happening. And when we had our children, you know, it shifted. I really was longing for the peace of staying in one space long enough to have our daughter, like, walk up and down for prom if she wanted, or, you know, seeing all those memories in a home. And I. And it really was. You know, when I went out to the publishers, I was like, I want to make a design book, but it's not about design. And it can't be a coffee table book. It's got to be, like, part scrapbook. It's got. I just want it to be my journal. For two years of work. I mean, everybody looked at me and, like, their eyes glazed over. But luckily, Harper's, which is then became Harvest, was really supportive. And, you know, I think the interesting thing and the irony about the book, as I say, this isn't meant to be a beautiful design book, but it actually turns out it was entirely about beauty. Just, it really shifted the way I was understanding beauty. You know, it was the beauty of ceremony, the beauty of ritual, the beauty of memory, the beauty of legacy, all these things that I hadn't used. And these lens. This lens that I had not used to create home, to see home, to understand it. And it gave me a really, a much larger appreciation for roots and this desire to change the narrative in our industry around beauty and home. I listen, I was on hgtv. It was flip it, reverse it, sell it. You know, you do everything really quickly. And it felt very. It can feel very transactional, but, I don't know, I'm really invested in this idea of creating things that. In these spaces that hold people, you know, I think that is the best thing I can, you know, hope for.
- [23:17]
Tori Malotte
I can't wait to see your book. I'm so excited.
- [23:19]
Jeremiah Brent
Oh, thank you. It's really sweet. It's a sweet book. And you. Do you ever read the Alchemist? Do you remember that book?
- [23:26]
Tori Malotte
Yes, yes, I do. I do remember this.
- [23:28]
Jeremiah Brent
This. My hope is that this book is like a. Is a journey for people that you kind of. That you extrapolate these things from every chapter that you connect to. It really changed the way I create it, changed the way I love it, changed the way I live in our own home. You know, it just really shifted everything for me, and I hope that it gives that to people. I hope people kind of get these little pieces from, you know, whatever they connect to. That's. That was my goal.
- [23:55]
Tori Malotte
And I love that you were like, I want to make a design book that's not a coffee table book. It's like record scratch that doesn't exist.
- [24:03]
Jeremiah Brent
I know. Well, because, I mean, we've all seen them. There's so many beautiful books out there. And I. And I love that. But I wanted, you know, it's. Books for me, were. Were they. They've always been so much, and. And they've meant so much to me. So I. It's. It's not often that you get to create something, at least in my field, that doesn't change. This was something that I made that was pure and as much a piece of my heart as I could offer people. And it's never going to change. It's just going to exist this way. So I just wanted it to be perfect.
- [24:36]
Tori Malotte
Well, I'm sure it is, and I can't wait to see it. And you kind of already answered my last question. You and Nate moved 10 times in 10 years. Why didn't those spaces keep you?
- [24:51]
Jeremiah Brent
Because I don't think we knew what we were looking for, and I don't think we were looking for the right things. You know, when we bought our first home together, which is the house on Fifth Avenue that we are back in now, which coincidentally happened, like, six months after I started writing the book, I didn't know what it meant to look around at a home and it represent. And have it represent so many different chapters of our lives. You know, the. The home on 5th. It's interesting. I was thinking about this last night when I was looking around so much of that house. The roots of it were we're dreaming of our future. The kitchen. Sitting at a kitchen island, fantasizing about how someday we could have children. Writing vows on the terrace, watching the house, watching us survive loss and everything that we lost with our fathers and our different family members. And now being in the house, it represents our past in this beautiful way. It was our future, and now it's our past. And our kids are sitting at the same island. So I think that, you know, we were always looking at homes and thinking, let's put a mantle in there. Let's sell it. Let's see what it. What we can sell it for before. Let's move on. And now that's a value proposition. It's changed. You know, I like the scratches on the floorboards from our dog, who we just had to put down, like, six months ago, and remembering, you know, having that, like, ghost of him in the house still. It's funny, you know, those echoes, they. They really matter. And I don't think it's something that we talk about enough with home and the idea of really loving it and seeing it in that way and understanding that the space can move you through so many important things in your life. And yes, you can be stuck in chapters in that same space, but there's a lot of power within those four walls. So I think we're just looking at home a lot differently now.
- [26:39]
Tori Malotte
I love that. And I'm sorry about your dog.
- [26:42]
Jeremiah Brent
That's so sad, too. It was the most traumatic thing I have ever gone through. I. He was 18 years old, though. He was.
- [26:51]
Tori Malotte
That's a long life.
- [26:52]
Jeremiah Brent
Yeah. And he was a Stray. Perfect. You know, I always say that he. His gift was always perspective. Even when I was 12 years old, basically, and I got a dog and I should never have had an animal I could barely afford to eat, he always gave me this responsibility and perspective. And when he died, even when he was dying, he gave me this unique perspective on my husband. You know, Nate was so beautifully there for me and took care of me in a way that I would never have thought. Thought was possible. And it just shifted even my perspective of him even more so, you know, as usual, he was always, always giving.
- [27:27]
Tori Malotte
Oh, you guys are such a good match. Well, to end on a positive note, what are you excited about right now and what fun projects do you have coming up?
- [27:40]
Jeremiah Brent
Well, I'm very. Right now, it's all about the book. My daughter the other day picked up the book and read the dedication, which is to her and my husband and I fell apart. The fact that she can read it, that she can hold it, that it'll always exist, and there's so much a part of it. I'm not gonna cry on your podcast.
- [27:57]
Tori Malotte
No crying.
- [27:58]
Jeremiah Brent
We don't have time for that. So I'm very excited about that. I'm very proud to have made something for my children to hold on to. And we've a lot going on. The design firm is doing really beautiful projects. We're doing hotels and really interesting homes that feel unique, and we're pushing the boundaries and some of those things people are going to see soon, which I'm excited, excited about. I'm just. I love what I do, and I'm really fortunate to love the people I do it with, so I would like to just keep it going.
- [28:25]
Tori Malotte
Well, Jeremiah, I cannot thank you enough for your time today and you beautiful, beautiful answers. They're so thoughtful and I'm really excited for this. I. I'm. I'm so excited for everyone to listen in.
- [28:40]
Dara Caponigro
Thanks for joining us today.