A Conversation on Biblical Manhood - Stand Firm and Act Like Men Roundtable

Summary

Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: A Conversation on Biblical Manhood – Stand Firm and Act Like Men Roundtable
Date: December 2, 2025

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Overview

This special roundtable episode brings together nine influential Christian men—from pastors and authors to hunters and entertainers—to tackle the urgent question: What is biblical manhood? Hosted by Pastor Joby Martin in tandem with his new book, “Stand Firm and Act Like Men,” the conversation explores manhood through scripture, confessions of personal weakness, the battle with pride, the dangers of comfort, and the transformative power of community and Christ. Authenticity, wisdom, humor, and vulnerability abound as each guest shares their story and vision for men seeking to become who God intended them to be.

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Table of Contents

1. Introduction & Panelist Backgrounds (00:00–10:33)
2. Defining Biblical Manhood & Rite of Passage (10:34–22:05)
3. The Need for Biblical Men in Society (23:50–33:00)
4. Vulnerability, Pride, and Humility (35:07–54:45)
5. Nature, Nurture, and the Core Calling of Men (55:12–64:28)
6. Community, Accountability, and Wise Counsel (66:04–80:02)
7. On Encouragement, Mentors, and Passing Down Wisdom (84:25–98:59)
8. The Idol of Comfort vs. the Adventure of God’s Call (99:31–115:28)
9. Redefining Strength and Courage (116:30–133:01)
10. Fear, Identity, and the Longing for Significance (133:15–145:14)
11. Final Encouragement & Closing Prayers (156:15–171:56)

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1. Introduction & Panelist Backgrounds (00:00–10:33)

• Moderator Ali introduces the episode as a roundtable on “Stand Firm and Act Like Men,” emphasizing the diversity and authenticity of the panelists, all united by their pursuit to be the men God called them to be.
• Pastor Joby: “None of us feel like we have it figured out… the source of being the man that God’s called us to be is in the person and work of Jesus Christ.” (00:46)
• Panelists introduced, including bestselling author Charles Martin, Pastor Matt Chandler, hunter Michael Waddell, singer/songwriter Drew Parker, preacher Ben Stewart, comedian Jeff Foxworthy, pastor Matt Carter, and athlete Tim Tebow.
• Notable relationships: mentorship chains are visible, e.g., Jeff Foxworthy discipling Michael Waddell, Pastor Joby discipling Drew Parker.

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2. Defining Biblical Manhood & Rite of Passage (10:34–22:05)

• The conversation begins with 1 Corinthians 16:13–14:
  “Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.” (12:48)
• Each man is asked if/when they felt they became a man:
  • Matt Chandler: His father was “anti-vision.” Mentors and Promise Keepers offered a new path. "Dad was kind of anti vision for my life, but I didn't have vision for my life. And so Promise Keepers… became for me, like the seedbed." (13:18)
  • Matt Carter: “When I saw that little boy for the first time, I was like, crud, I gotta start acting like a man now… there was something that happened in my heart on that drive home where it sunk into my life in my heart, like this is my responsibility and my responsibility alone.” (14:53)
  • Michael Waddell: Achievement by worldly standards still left him feeling like a “man-child.” Vulnerability and surrender came in his thirties. (16:11)
  • Tim Tebow: The first drive home with his newborn daughter: “All of my senses, I'm focused, I'm locked in. But what about the next day and the next day?” (22:12)
• Pastor Joby: Laments the lack of rites of passage in modern America—today's “adolescence” or “dude” culture is dangerous, lacking biblical responsibility. (21:03)

Memorable Quote

“There’s nothing more dangerous than boys trying to bestow manhood on other boys. …That is not what it means to be a man at all. Not biblically.” – Pastor Joby (21:03)

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3. The Need for Biblical Men in Society (23:50–33:00)

• Pastor Joby: Society is in “a bit of a crisis” over gender and manhood, which represents “an attack on the character and nature of God.” (11:01)
• The world is “screaming for men to be the biblical kind” who “let everything they do be done in love.” (25:23)
• Matt Chandler: The data is in: “Solid, Jesus loving, church involved Christian men are the best husbands and dads on the planet.” (25:23)
• Men, as God designed, are to provide, protect, and love; problems like trafficking persist because of male abdication or evil.

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4. Vulnerability, Pride, and Humility (35:07–54:45)

• Ali: Everyone at the table has a platform—how have they battled pride?
• Charles Martin: Writing the book forced the “mirror” on himself; pride is best checked by loving one’s wife and children as Christ loves us. (35:36)
• Jeff Foxworthy: Grew up without a model—asked questions of men he admired. “I am a good dad... but it didn’t just happen.” (41:00)
• Pastor Joby: “Humility is not a feeling… It is a posture.” (40:53)
• Matt Chandler: Challenges the “lie of silent suffering”—that not sharing is strength. “That’s pride as much as… cocky arrogance here.” (42:45)
• Tim Tebow: The pride of believing “I nailed Jesus to the cross” is the starting point for humility and grace. (52:01)
• Jeff Foxworthy: “At the moment of surrender, every one of us goes, God, I cannot do this. …As soon as we back up, we go, I’m a mess, but I’m not as big a mess as she is.” (53:09)

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5. Nature, Nurture, and the Core Calling of Men (55:12–64:28)

• Pastor Joby: Uses the biblical roles: provider, protector, prophet, priest, servant-king.
• Matt Chandler & Ben Stewart: From Genesis, men are called to “cultivate and keep”—to bring order, to use strength not for domination but for others’ flourishing.
• The enemy corrupts man’s God-given nature—making self the goal, not service. (49:16)
• Jeff Foxworthy: “Self-scout”—be honest about your own temptations. (61:00)

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6. Community, Accountability, and Wise Counsel (66:04–80:02)

• Ben Stewart: Cautions against mere “accountability” groups with surface-level sharing—calls for true self-sabotage, honesty, and preemptive confession, not just postfailure guilt. (64:44)
• Jeff Foxworthy: On the danger of pedestal leadership and the need for a “king’s table” of trusted counselors. (67:36)
• Matt Chandler: Everyone needs three kinds of friends: Nathans (wise, honest), Joabs (action-takers), and Jonathans (soul-friends). Don’t be 99% known—“that 1% is the devil’s playground.” (69:27)
• Tim Tebow: Proverbs repeatedly commands us to seek wise counsel, not just accountability for pastors, but for every man. (75:44)
• Drew Parker: On the other side: If someone confesses to you, keep their trust—be a safe person. (77:47)

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7. On Encouragement, Mentors, and Passing Down Wisdom (84:25–98:59)

• Jeff Foxworthy: Truett Cathy’s principle—if someone’s breathing, they need encouragement. “It makes you be aware.” (84:25)
• Pastor Joby: Stories of affirmation from men—“When you teach the Bible, I see them come alive. And I see you come alive.” (86:55)
• Drew Parker: Publicly thanks Joby for seeing God’s work in his life and reaching out to disciple him. (90:34)
• Charles Martin: His father taught “all that we have are words,” instilling a lifelong value of truth in speech. (96:18)
• Group: Several stories are shared about mentorship and the life-changing power of small moments of encouragement or challenge from an older man.

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8. The Idol of Comfort vs. the Adventure of God’s Call (99:31–115:28)

• Pastor Joby: “Part of the American dream that is 100% at odds with the gospel… the pursuit of comfort… If you want to pursue a comfortable life, then do not follow Jesus.” (99:31)
• Jeff Foxworthy: True adventure lies in embracing the unknown and embracing the “mess” of real life—“Feed my sheep is a nasty job.” (101:00)
• Tim Tebow: Aspires to “show up to heaven exhausted… it would be a really bad day to get there well rested.” (104:36)
• Matt Chandler: “The thing that we’re all trying to avoid [suffering] is the thing that can produce some of the best gold…” (104:46)
• Ben Stewart: No one watches a movie about a guy watching TV. We’re made for adventure. “I want to do hard things that matter with people I love.” (113:37)

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9. Redefining Strength and Courage (116:30–133:01)

• Jesus redefines greatness: “He’s not saying, don’t be strong… He just redefines greatness in an upside-down kingdom where to be great is to be like him.” (116:30)
• Practical strength comes from humble service, not self-promotion—Jesus as the model servant.
• Ben Stewart: “All our power is derivative. …I want to lean so far out on faith that if God’s not real, I’m falling on my face.” (120:55)
• Matt Carter: Real strength in marriage is loving first, “even when you’re not being loved in return.” (123:03)
• Tim Tebow: “Courage is not the absence of fear. It means you do it anyway, even if you are afraid.” Trainings and football were nothing compared to true courage and sacrifice for eternal things. (126:09)
• Pastor Joby: Meekness is “strength under the control of a loving master… That doesn’t mean that we’re not strong, we’ve just said, God… I want to put the reins back in your hands.” (131:35)

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10. Fear, Identity, and the Longing for Significance (133:15–145:14)

• Pastor Joby: At the soul’s core, “Do I have what it takes?” and the recurring fear of letting others down.
• Matt Chandler: “I know the answer theologically, but so much of my life is still trying to get it in there…”
• Jeff Foxworthy: On significance, not just from work but in identity as a child of God. Galatians 1:10 – “Am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?”
• Drew Parker: Fear of being exposed as an inadequate husband, father, friend—resolved only by surrender to God and honest brotherhood.
• Charles Martin: Confession breaks fear’s hold; “the confession cut me free from the fear.”

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11. Final Encouragement & Closing Prayers (156:15–end)

Key Closing Quotes

• Matt Chandler (On hope for broken men):
  “Hardly anybody in the Bible could get hired at the Village... God pulls from the fringes of darkness those who become his brightest lights. …If you’re swimming in a sea of crap, you’re God’s kind of guy.” (156:15)
• Matt Carter: “Just show up, and you’re going to accomplish more as a dad than you can imagine.” (158:56)
• Drew Parker: “You don’t have to abandon your story. You just have to surrender it to the Lord.” (161:00)
• Ben Stewart: “Don’t shame the small steps. …Celebrate them.” (162:49)
• Michael Waddell: “You can be used. Don’t let your insecurities and look at what you think is worth define what you could do.” (164:50)
• Jeff Foxworthy: “As the devil’s accusing us, I picture a courtroom, and every time he reads something out, Jesus, as the intercessor, stands up, holds up that hand with a hole in it, [and says] ‘I’ve already paid for that.’” (168:31)
• Pastor Joby (Final challenge):
  “If you have this desire to be a better man, that's cause God put that in you. But you'll never be able to stand firm and act like men until you bend your knee to Jesus. …His divine power has given you everything you need to be the man that God has called you to be.” (171:13)

Prayer
Pastor Joby prays for men to embrace their calling not through their own strength, but by the power of Christ within them.

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Memorable & Notable Quotes

• “There is nothing in your life that Jesus wants distance from. Like, there’s just nothing. Especially if you think it’s gross or nasty or you hope nobody ever finds out.” – Matt Chandler (156:15)
• “Comfort is killing us right now. I wish brothers would choose the hard thing for the good, the gold…” – Matt Chandler (109:12)
• “My wife and my daughters didn’t need a famous dad. They needed a faithful one.” – Drew Parker (161:20)
• “[Strength is] a bit-bridled horse. ...When they're under the command of a loving master ... everything increases in their life." – Pastor Joby (131:35)
• “Nobody ever writes this down, but temptation is tempting.” – Pastor Joby (63:29)
• “You are so hard on yourself. ...But you've got some pretty soft boundaries against sin in your life. …Be kinder to your heart. You're his dad, you are loved.” – Ben Stewart (150:55)

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Action Points & Encouragements for Listeners

• Find a group of godly men: Don’t walk alone. Authentic community is indispensable.
• Seek wise counsel: Even strong men need help and correction; invite it.
• Fight pride with humility: Ask for help; don’t project an image of having it all together.
• Be present: Just showing up for your family is half the battle.
• Don’t be defined by your failures: Surrender your story to God, not the enemy.
• Reject comfort as your highest goal: Live for the adventure and hard things God calls you to.
• Remember your worth is found in Christ: Not in achievement, platform, or performance.
• Take the next small step: Obedience isn’t about how far you have to go, but the step in front of you.

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For more:
Grab a free chapter of Pastor Joby’s book or support the Church of Eleven22 at the links shared in the episode.

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This summary captures the authenticity, wisdom, and practical encouragement of a milestone conversation on biblical manhood. For any man, or anyone who loves a man—this episode is a call to step up, stand firm, and act like men, not by the world’s standard, but by God’s.

Transcript

[Ali]

Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Stand Firm and Act Like Men roundtable conversation. We sat down today. We just wrapped. We sat down with nine men, Christian leaders, pastors, hunters, authors. Who am I forgetting?

[Pastor Joby]

Singer songs, singer songwriters.

[Ali]

Yeah, it was an incredible group of men. And we just talked about biblical manhood, what it is. We talked a lot about pride and fear, a lot of fun, light topics. Comfort. It is. It's going to be impactful to so many people to hear this group in particular. So many backgrounds, so many different lengths of time that they've walked with the Lord, but a commonality among them of just trying to be the man that God's called them to be.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. I think one of the common themes is none of us feel like we have it figured out. I mean, that's what will come through. And yet we know that the source of being a man, the man that God has called us to be, is in the person and work of Jesus Christ. So like you said, a lot of different people, a few pastors, some of them that you've heard of a lot. Some people in the hunting industry, television, song ball fields. And what we all have in common is God has called us to be. To be men.

[Ali]

Yeah. And all this is in light of your newest book, Stand Firm and Act Like Men. Hopefully you've bought your copy and you buy it for all the men in your life. And honestly, anybody can read this and get something from it because we all at least know a man. And it's helpful to learn, even as I was reading it, to just learn how your minds and your hearts are wired just differently. So let's just talk about who is here. Because we're gonna talk a lot about what's in this book in just a few moments. But of course, we have you. You're the lead pastor here at the church of 1122. This is your fourth book.

[Pastor Joby]

That's right.

[Ali]

Which is so fun. And fourth in four years, isn't it?

[Pastor Joby]

That's a lot.

[Ali]

That's a lot. It's like you waited so long and then you just went for it. Cause you had all the content ready. And then we have Charles Martin, who. Yeah, you wanna give a brief. I mean, most people know him if they followed you for any amount of time. But Charles.

[Pastor Joby]

Charles is one of my dearest friends on the planet. He's one of the godliest men I've ever met in my whole life. I feel like just knowing Charles as my friend makes me a better husband and a better dad and a Better Christian. And so. And then I couldn't write books without Char Martin. So he helps me take what I do from stage and put it on page. And so he's here and. And we've done this a couple of times now, and we've got folks with huge platforms and Charles has a huge platform in regards to, you know, being an author, but he has some of the most insightful things to say always. That's who Charles is.

[Ali]

And he's also a 15 time New York best selling author.

[Pastor Joby]

Let's go.

[Ali]

Bestselling author.

[Michael Waddell]

Okay.

[Ali]

Then we had Matt Chandler.

[Pastor Joby]

Heard of him?

[Ali]

Yeah, he's. He's there. You. He's quoted actually in this book quite a bit.

[Pastor Joby]

Quite a bit. Yeah. Matt has become one of my dearest, like, preacher buddies, man. He's a great, great guy. Pastor of the village church, written a whole bunch of books. He's just so rooted and grounded in the gospel. And honestly, he's like the, like the spurgeon of our generation in regards to his impact on the world through preaching the word. So we invited him to be here.

[Ali]

All right, then we have Michael Waddell, who you either know him, he's a really big deal in the circles that he runs in. I didn't know who he was until we talked about him. And then after researching him a bit, he's a huge deal.

[Pastor Joby]

Huge. So I met Waddell about three or four years ago at a Thomas Redd event. We were helping fund an orphanage in Africa. And then we hunted together and got to be buddies. Michael Waddell is an 1122 onliner and he's known the Lord for a while, but he's been discipled more in the past few years, you know, but he also, he lives in that hunting space, so he's got a series of television shows. One of them is called Bone Collector. He hunts all over the world. He's one of the most famous big game hunters alive right now. And, you know, is a friend of mine. And that's a part of what I wanted to do, is to invite a bunch of different men that love the Lord, that are in different spheres of influence to talk about what it's like to be a godly man.

[Ali]

And he really surrendered to the Lord and we would say stood firm and acted like a man a little bit later in life than a lot of those at the table. And I think a lot of the people listening are gonna get a lot from him sharing so rawly and authentically about his story.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, I don't know if You've ever been in, like, a group discussion before, and then one guy decides to be vulnerable first and early, and it changes the whole to of the conversation. So I was so thankful that Waddell brought that authenticity.

[Ali]

Yeah, he did. All right, then we have Drew Parker. Let's go and tell us about your relationship with Drew Parker. Cause it's pretty special.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. Yeah. Drew is a country music artist, singer, songwriter. He's written dozens of top 10 hits or number one songs, actually, that you've heard, mostly that other people sing. He is a recording artist, and we met a few years ago, and he decided to pivot, even though he's super successful and had records. And was. I met him, he was opening for Luke Combs here at a concert here in Jacksonville. And now he just wants to leverage all of that for the gospel, not just sort of that country music theology hat tip to the big man upstairs, but just to sing for the Lord. And so he's also a younger man that I've been discipling for a while, so he has some incredible insight.

[Ali]

He does, yeah. And he's written. He's written songs for Luke Combs, Jake Owen, Zack Brown, Band Hardy, and Blake Shelton. So these aren't. Yeah, these aren't small, little country music gigs. These are the names in country music.

[Pastor Joby]

Correct.

[Ali]

All right, next up, we have Ben Stewart.

[Pastor Joby]

Ben Stewart is one of my favorite preachers ever, and he's A friend of 1122. He's preached here several times. He's with Passion city church in D.C. and also just a dear friend and one of the smartest minds. Not just in the scriptures, which he is. He's not just theological, he's also sociological. Like, he understands the pulse of this society better than most and what the scripture has to say to it. So he definitely brought that angle.

[Ali]

He does. And I love you and Ben are very different as men, but the things that you say are the same things just said different ways. And so it's. It's always fun hearing both of you talk about the same topic because you are saying the exact same things, but just in your own flavor, which makes it just a fuller picture of what you're talking about. Yeah. And he has his master's degree in historical theology, which he always is running what he says through that lens like you were talking about. All right, then we have Jeff Foxworthy.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, I got to meet Jeff a few years ago, and we've gotten to be friends. We were actually at a Compassion International event together, and I was preaching morning, and he was Preaching in the evening. And he just came to the morning to hear me and meet and so longtime hero. If you only know Jeff Foxworthy from the redneck jokes, you don't know the depth of Jeff Foxworthy, the amount of ministry he does in and around Atlanta, Georgia, where he's from, he's led a disciple group for homeless men for over a decade. He loves Jesus and he loves to make people laugh. And he's just got some real insight into what it means to be a man that loves the Lord living in this world.

[Ali]

He's so quick witted.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, he's incredible.

[Ali]

Similarly to you talking, you discipling Drew Parker. And we talk a lot about discipleship in this conversation. It was also really, really cool to see because Jeff disciples Michael Waddell. And you could see it. You know, Michael would share something and Jeff would say, yeah, I was there when you were talking about that thing with your wife at the time, you know, and so seeing those relationships was, was really cool to see. And I, I forgot he hosted Are youe Smarter than a Fifth Grader?

[Pastor Joby]

He did.

[Tim Tebow]

It's epic.

[Ali]

All right, then we have Dr. Matt.

[Pastor Joby]

Carter, our very own doctor.

[Drew Parker]

Our very own.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. Who's on staff here. One of the teaching pastors now at the church of 1122, but planted the Austin Tunnel Church in Texas. Helps plant churches all over North America with the SIN Network. One of my. I just love that guy to death. And also, man, just a Bible teaching, gospel guy. He's also written a book on manhood. And so, and I'm just telling you, Matt Carter is the kind of man you want to be. You know, you want to raise kids like him, you want to have a marriage like him. He's a man's man. Everything he says is awesome. So invited him to be.

[Ali]

All right. And then lastly, but definitely not least, fresh, freshly a father, Tim Tebow.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, he's one day into fatherhood and came to this and quite honestly, one of the most impressive human beings I've ever met in my entire life. I've never seen a man leverage success for the sake of the gospel like he has for the sake of the most vulnerable to the glory of God. I also just appreciate him so, so much. He thought this was important enough to be here. They just brought their baby home and Demi gave permission for sure because she knows how powerful this is. Because like we say over and over and over, when men lead in love, well, everyone flourishes. And so I think when you think about what a man is, I do think Tim Tebow comes to mind for many people. Right. I mean, he's so big and strong and athletic and all of that, but he's honestly, his heart breaks for what breaks the heart of God. He's a big old softy in all the right ways, but he's aggressive in all the right ways, and he always brings that. And he's a real part of 1122. You know, it's not just like an add on. He's a real part of our church and what it means to be a movement for all people, to discover and deepen our relationship with Jesus. And he. The Tim Tebow foundation is one of the primary partners of the church of 1122 and what it means for men all over the place to stand firm and act like men for the provision and protection of other people, no doubt.

[Ali]

Well, it's an incredible conversation. We can't wait for you to listen to it. And we hope you send it to those in your life that need to hear this or need to be encouraged or challenged for them to stand firm and act like men. So here's our conversation on biblical manhood. All right, today we're here to talk about biblical manhood.

[Tim Tebow]

Let's go.

[Matt Chandler]

Let's go.

[Pastor Joby]

Go.

[Ali]

Obviously not a topic I'm directly familiar with, but I am married to a man, so that's good.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

There it is.

[Ali]

And this is in honor of your new book, Pastor Joby, which we're gonna talk about. And after reading the book, it's really good. And I keep telling people this is for any man and anyone that knows a man. And so would you just kick us off with, where did this book come from? And why are we here today to talk about what it means to be a godly man?

[Pastor Joby]

Well, I don't think it would take a sociologist to see that we're in a bit of a crisis, particularly in the last four or five years in our society here in the West. And there's really been an attack on gender. And an attack on gender is an attack on the character and nature of God, because it was God's idea to create us, male and female. And oftentimes when there's a problem, you know, I love to say, for every mile of road, there's two miles of ditch. And we don't want to find ourselves in either ditch. We just want to be who God's word says we are to be. And that's what this is for. This is for men that want to be the men that God has called them to be. This is also for women who know men are related to men, love men and want to be there to help them be who they have been called to be. And so I've invited each one of you. I was telling you before we started recording, I'm 100% sure at some point in my life, I have purchased a ticket to see every one of you speak or play or do your thing here. And so I'm glad you're here. And the real reason I invited you here is because every single one of you, the preachers, the authors, the TV personalities, hunters, athletes, singers, that I really respect you as men, as godly men. You love the Lord, you love your families, and you're also out on the front edge of being who God has called you to be. And so that's why we're here to talk about that.

[Ali]

Yeah, I love it. So will someone read. I see a lot of Bibles open. That's good. We're going to be studying the Bible today. Will someone read First Corinthians 16, 13, and 14? This is really where the book was birthed out of this scripture. So if someone could go ahead and read that.

[Pastor Joby]

Ben Stewart. I'm calling on Ben Stewart with your gruff voice.

[Ben Stewart]

Happy to do it. 1 Corinthians 16, 13. Be watchful. Stand firm in the faith. Act like men. Be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.

[Ali]

So before we get to unpacking the scripture, did y' all have a moment where you felt like you crossed from boy to man? Like, do you have a season or a story that comes to mind that you remember, you look back on, and that was the season that you really became a man?

[Matt Chandler]

Yeah, we didn't. There was no rite of passage or I didn't even. Wasn't even born into a really healthy home. But by the grace of God, around the time I became a Christian, Promise Keepers was like, at its pinnacle. And so they were filling up stadiums. And I, I remember just knowing I, I didn't want. And this, I mean, we're all going to have different stories here. I did not want to be my dad. Some guys around the table saw their dad and they're like, I want to be him when I grow up. That, that just wasn't my story. So dad was kind of anti vision for my life, but I didn't have vision for my life. And so Promise Keepers guys like Steve Farrar and Dr. Tony Evans and I could go on those guys and their books became for me, like the seedbed for me to go, oh, this is the vision of what it looks like to become a man that honors the Lord and lives into the unique strength given to men. And so I'm not saying that's when I feel like I became a man. I was like 17 or 18 years old, but that became for me the pathway of. I will move towards this now for the rest of my life. And so that. That's kind of my story.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Wow.

[Matt Carter]

Yeah. For me it was the birth of my son, you know, because if you look at the Scriptures, First Corinthians, 16, 13, be watchful, stand firm your faith and act like men. I was reading that this morning. It's one thing to be a man, it's another thing to act like a man.

[Pastor Joby]

Amen.

[Matt Carter]

And when I saw that little boy for the first time, I was like, crud, I gotta start acting like a man now. I'll never forget the doctor called me dad. And it was the first time I'd ever been called that.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah.

[Matt Carter]

And there was something that happened in my heart on that drive home where it sunk into my life in my heart, like this is my responsibility and my responsibility alone. And I was radically changed through that. I'd like to say it happened earlier. It didn't. It happened because the birth of my son.

[Drew Parker]

Wow.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ben Stewart]

What is that? Steinbeck said it. A boy becomes a man when a man is needed. I've known 40 year old boys because there was no need for a man.

[Matt Carter]

That's right.

[Ben Stewart]

That's right.

[Matt Carter]

That's right.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah. My story is real similar what you say. And I don't think I really understood what a man was until it was later in life after actually, you know, two failed marriages and just realizing that I could easily put this on things that was outside of my power. And I realized that it was the enemy the whole time. And kind of like you're talking about with your kid. I had kids. I'd had a great career. I felt like a man in a lot of ways. I was a. I'd won a world championship in turkey collar. Go. I mean, that's manly, right?

[Pastor Joby]

Goblin, you didn't.

[Tim Tebow]

You know what?

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, Turkey collar.

[Tim Tebow]

You know, why did that make Joby so happy?

[Matt Chandler]

The only world champion here today.

[Pastor Joby]

He'S the Heisman winner of turkey calling. Yeah, it was crazy.

[Michael Waddell]

It was. And. But I knew I needed turkey call because I knew I couldn't tackle you.

[Pastor Joby]

Tim Tebow, left and right, worked all.

[Michael Waddell]

The way through college. Even. NFL was unbelievable. But yeah, I mean, I just, I look back and look at all the, the different things that was going on and And. And I had to look at myself in the mirror, and what I saw was a. A child, even though I was disguised as a man through what I was doing. And I had a lot of, you know, godly figures in my wife. I mean, life. One. One was Jeff, and we spent a lot of adventures together, hunting together, and. And on the surface, I think it. I look pretty manly, but in reality, you know, I still consider myself a man child now. I still do a lot of fun things and. And still love to go hunt and have a good time and. But at the same time, that's. That's when I realized kind of same thing, man. I got to stand up. I got to figure out what it is that I need to do. And it really had to do with standing firm, putting on the armor of God, and realizing I'd always been a believer. I'd been saved when I was 12, but obviously did a lot of backsliding and realized that, man, I had this salvation, and I knew and believed, but at the same time, I was just. It looked like a decent path, but in reality, it was just all this destruction around me, and it was really just. It was me and allowing the enemy to kind of have his way. And so for me, literally, it was later in life, I would say later, in my 30s, when I realized that this is foolishness and I need to learn how to be a man, not just how to shoot a shotgun, protect the people I love, you know, with a gun or a knife or Chinese stars or butterfly knife, you know, But I need to do more, and I need to. You know, I had kids that was looking at me, and I realized I'd failed them. So that's my story. So on this panel, for sure, I went through tons of struggle still. Still in that place to where you don't feel worthy. But through his salvation, we're all going to fall a little short. But being able to admit it, I think is the first step to that.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

You know, I think it's very cool that you're that authentic.

[Pastor Joby]

No doubt.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Cause I love this guy. I've had. We've had more laughs in treason on. But I remember when you were thinking about leaving your first wife. I pulled off the road into a grocery store parking lot and sat there for an hour and a half and tried to talk him out of it. Not because I didn't love him. It was because my dad left. And I was just telling. I remember being that kid, and from the perspective of that. And so, I mean, we've all done stuff that we wish we hadn't done and. Or if we had it to do over, we'd do it a different way. But. But I love you being authentic because that's. That's not an easy thing for guys to do to say, I didn't do that. Right. I screwed that one up. And it didn't make me think any less of you. I just. I just knew being the kid whose dad had left, and that's what I was telling him. This. Is this how it makes you feel as a kid? That I'm not worth staying for? But that's awesome. You can be that upfront and honest.

[Michael Waddell]

Thank you. I always, always want to be the oak, but you realize sometimes just old sweet gum Sway, you know, sweet gum is aggravating. They're good to hang a tree stand in, but they ain't good for much. Them old balls like porcupines up in there.

[Matt Chandler]

But I literally have no idea.

[Pastor Joby]

I'm sorry.

[Matt Carter]

I understood every word he said.

[Pastor Joby]

There's never been a group of people that covers what I'm into. More. More than this.

[Matt Chandler]

I'll be googling some stuff after this. I already wrote that down.

[Pastor Joby]

I love it.

[Matt Chandler]

Something about sweet gums.

[Pastor Joby]

If you notice, there's a big pause there, Allie, when you ask the question. Because we are one of the few societies in all of human history that does not have a differentiation between boy and man. And for almost all of written human history, there was only two classification of male. There were boys and there were men. And men bestowed manhood on a generation of boys. And in the last 80 years, hundred years, there's a new classification we call adolescence, or a dude. And a dude is a dangerous thing. And there's nothing more dangerous than boys trying to bestow manhood on other boys. And when you do that, it just becomes all about consuming. Like, who can drive the biggest truck, have the biggest muscle, score the most touchdown, make the most money, whatever it is. And that is not what it means to be a man at all. Not biblically.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Well, it's the freedoms of adulthood with the responsibilities of childhood. And we got a bunch of guys locked right in there with that, and it's not a good combination.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, and what you were saying, Carter, about being a dad, and then that quote, it really comes down to responsibility. A boy becomes a man when he gladly steps into the responsibilities given to us by God and does not see them so much as a burden, but as a gift to be stewarded. So for me, it happened really early simply because my family situation, I just found myself In a place where I had to be the man, like 15 years old. And, you know, I mean, you think about the greatest generation, that's Storm and Normandy. Well, the reason those teenage boys could pick up a gun and go do that is because they had to. And when not much is required of you, then that's about what you get from people.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

It's true.

[Charles Martin]

Absolutely.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

Matt, I. I love what you shared. I think it's so important for me. I just had that blessing yesterday.

[Pastor Joby]

Let's go. Brand new. Let's go. Go of.

[Matt Carter]

I bet your wife is so glad you're here.

[Tim Tebow]

Um, but that responsibility, when you're carrying her out of the hospital and you get in the car and then we're driving home and I've been in some different pressure pack moments in my life, but that one was like. I mean, I was like 10 and 2 and I was locked in, you know, And Demi's laughing. She's in the back with our little girl and she's filming me. She's like, I've never seen you drive like this. Like, I'm usually one hand or like.

[Pastor Joby]

And I got tenants too.

[Tim Tebow]

And the responsibility and when I'm carrying her is like, I was. I mean, I was high and tight, five points of pressure. Like, I was not fumbling this one. And. And I, I just. That level of responsibility that you feel, in my opinion, is also the level of responsibility we should always feel as men, as believers. The responsibility that God has bestowed on us and what we've been called to do. And it shouldn't just be in that one time moment. Because you. This is the big moment. Like how we live and how we pursue God's call in our life should be with that level of intensity and that level of responsibility and that level of focus. Because so much is on the line that it was like, man, in this moment, like, all of my senses, I'm focused, I'm locked in. But what about the next day and the next day and the next day? Am I living with that same level of responsibility, intensity and focus? Because every day matters that much.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah.

[Ali]

So as we talk about where we're at in society, in this cultural moment, why is it so important for the fight for biblical manhood? Like, why are we having this conversation? Why is this book so important that we continue to stay and push into this fight?

[Pastor Joby]

Because it's God's created order. Biblical womanhood is very just as important. This is just what we're talking about. I think that, you know, there has completely been an attack on what it means to be a man. The extremes are very dangerous for men to just be. Men in the past few years has been called toxic. Like, dude, it's hard when you look at a generation of boys growing up and say, you are the problem. So the best solution for you is just sit down, be quiet and keep playing the video game and not step into who God has called you to be. That is a problem. But then the other extreme can be just as big of a problem if you just define yourself by all the externals but don't take the kind of biblical responsibility that God has given you. The reason it's so important is because the world is screaming for men to be the biblical kind of men that God has called us to be. Even if they wouldn't use those words or even say that they believe the Bible. They want men to be strong, to stand firm, to let. Let everything they do not beat their chest and say, look at me because I'm a man, but let everything they do be done in love. That's my joy in the Lord towards you at great expense to myself. That that's what the world needs. Cause that's how God has ordered it.

[Matt Chandler]

Yeah, I always love when science catches up to the Bible where you're just like reading the newspaper and they're like, we just figured this out. If you take one day a week, you turn everything off and you just focus on being rather than doing. Anxiety goes down, depression vanishes. You're like, oh yeah, we know that it's called the Sabbath. And this is one of those where all the sociological data is saying, hey, Christian men, not nominal Christian men. Because they're the worst offenders they are. I mean, they are the most violent, they're the more apt to divorce. But solid, Jesus loving, church involved Christian men are the best husbands and dads on the planet. That's just what the data says. And so humanity flourishes in God's design and it shrivels up and dies where we're outside of his design. And that's why like I want to argue really the rest of my life that the best thing in the world for women and children is for males to be this kind of man. They will be safest, their gifts will be used more powerfully, they will grow. Like the Bible says that a man of God's wife would be a well watered vine. She would be fruitful, she would be not crushed, not squelched, but literally like a trellis built for all the beauty and goodness that God put in her to come out. So in my heart, because of the Scriptures, it's like, get in God's design and humanity flourishes. You start messing with this and things are going to die. And that's why I think it's such a big deal.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, I think about the work that the Tim Tebow foundation does that 1122 partners with to support, particularly in regards to the most vulnerable around the world, and sex trafficking and human trafficking, particularly among kids. If the men of this world would stand firm and act like men. These things do not happen because they are both the perpetrators and those that are complicit to it. And both of those groups need to come to the Lord and act like men because we're put here to provide and protect and to love and to create the kind of venues and environment where all people can flourish.

[Tim Tebow]

And when you talk about the Christian man and the family and how they're supposed to be husbands and wives, but you look at the data and so much is being done by familiar trafficking. So not only is it just being done, it's so much is being done in your family. It's the opposite of what a Christian man is supposed to look like and supposed to be.

[Ben Stewart]

It's been interesting for me to. I'm reading a book. It's an old book, Manhood in the Making. I'm not advocating for it necessarily. It's an anthropology book that's just studying ancient tribes. But it's all about that initiation process from boyhood to manhood and how different tribes do it and the basic mechanics of it. So for me, I'm just sitting in my room thinking about if there's just a handful of us on a desert island or a tropical island. Primary role. Not only role for woman, but primaries. That's the only body that can create a child and then can feed that child. The guy can't do that. So what does the guy do? Procure protein. That's what he does. Because the plants can kind of keep you alive. But she's providing protein and nutrients to that kid. He can go do that. It becomes an act of nurturing. But to do that, he's got to step into the wild. So to act like a man means you have to have courage. You have to overcome internal fear and step out into the unknown. But if you just step out there, you can have the courage to walk onto a football field. But if you're not competent, you're gonna get crushed. So you go, okay, I gotta have the courage to step out into the wild and the competency to overcome adversity. To get that thing. But what's wild to me, with some of these tribes, you're like, but if you don't share that food with the tribe, you are not a man.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah.

[Ben Stewart]

And because they're like, because the whole point of that competency and that courage is to provide for your tribe so they're fed and they flourish and they win. And it's all echoing Genesis 1 and 2, just stumbling into it in these different tribes, and some of them twist aspects of it, and it goes dark and gets toxic in some weird ways. But you look at that and go, there's something so primal about a man is fully alive. When he goes, I'm going to overcome my fear and be courageous to do something that helps the community. That's when you're the most fully alive. And it's that I'm here to help the community flourish. That's getting lost, and we're all hurting because of that.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Good.

[Matt Carter]

But, Ben, wouldn't you say the competency thing is what's lacking in our culture? I was studying for a book I wrote a few years ago and kind of unpacking why the millennial generation left the church in droves. Look at Barna's research. And one of the things that I found was fascinating. I think it was the number two reason was that they articulated that, that they did not have a single individual in their lives that they were close to that was a fully committed Christian that they wanted to model. And that blew my mind. And so wouldn't you say that the courage is likely there, but maybe the competency. A lot of these folks don't know how to be a man, Pastor Joe, but they're like, man, Okay, I hear you, hear what you're saying. I want to be a man. I don't know how to do it. And that'd be the difference between being a man and a biblical man? I don't know. What do you think?

[Pastor Joby]

Well, the reason that this book on manhood isn't like, here's my 12 steps to help you be a better man or whatever 1. I'm just not that kind of guy that comes up with my own ideas. I feel like this verse, the hub in the middle of the wheel, is act like men. And the imperatives around it are how to do that. And that's all we do in the book is just watch. What does it look like to be watchful? To, like, stay awake? You know, this means, like, stand on the wall. Cause you have been put there to provide and protect. Stand firm is that means to fight. You know, it means, like, to take a stand or stand your ground, to be strong. That God has given us, as men, strength, both physically, mentally, spiritually, but not for us, is exactly what you were saying, that we were supposed to be a conduit of that string, not a cul de sac of it. And then the thing that hit me like a ton of bricks is, and let everything you do be done in love. And I think about what Paul says in First Corinthians 13, hey, listen, when I was a child, I acted like a child. After describing what biblical love is and what a lot of times is. A lot of dudes think they're being tough and they're actually acting like toddlers because they're not being patient, they're not being kind. They're being easily offended. It's all about ego. Instead of saying, I'm trying to be Christlike. So the good news is, Matt, it's what you're saying, bro. The Bible has already prescribed for us what it means to be a man. And then, even better than a prescription from the Lord, he gives us the spirit of God in every man that loves the Lord, that has received Christ to empower us to be who he has called us to be. And it is up to us. It's one thing to pick on another generation, but we raised them. It is our responsibility to say, even if we have screwed it up in the past, from this day forward, we commit to you to help pass along what it means to be. To be a man. Yeah.

[Matt Chandler]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

I think there's such a level of seriousness to it in looking at it, getting ready for this. It's just studying it. And then you look at, be on alert. Be watchful. When you look at that word in the Septuagint in Jeremiah, it's actually talking about a leopard getting ready to pounce. Right? And there's the seriousness of the visual that there is, right? Like that leper's not playing around. He's not playing games. That's dinner. And he's getting ready to pounce on his prey. You know, and that's how we're supposed to be, right? There's this intensity that should be there. Now be on alert. It's not like I'm kind of, like, looking around. It's no. Like, I am on alert because we are at war. You know, as you talk about in this book, it is a war, and I have to be on alert, because if I am not alert, it's not just me that takes the hurt it's everyone I'm responsible for and the calling and everybody else. Family, friends, neighborhood, all of that. All of that gets hurt when I'm not alert.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Stewart]

So.

[Ali]

Oh, go ahead.

[Drew Parker]

Also, too, to go back to what Joby said, to also pass down your knowledge. And this dude right here has been that for me. I'm probably the youngest guy here, but I've learned over the last really few months, I feel like I've become more of a man. And a lot of that has been understanding the Lord's calling on my life and moving towards that instead of the comfort that I've lived in for the last however long and just shepherding young dudes and honestly, setting your pride aside to go. And for me, it was a God that I was meeting with and I was growing in the Lord, and he shared something with me that was very shocking to me, but it broke the ice and allowed me to really put on the table what something that I'd been struggling with, that I held in for so long, but this grown man sharing something with me and allowing me to then go, oh, wait, I. I can talk about those things, you know? And that was super important to me.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah, that's good.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Let's.

[Ali]

Let's talk about pride for a bit, because in the chapter on being watchful Pastor Joby, you talk a lot about pride being a big hurdle for men. And as I look around the table, everybody here has a platform of some sort. You have people weekly, if not daily, applauding the things that you do. So where have you maybe fallen into the trap of pride? Or how do you fight against pride?

[Charles Martin]

There's not enough time. One of the things that happened to me when we were working on writing this was I'm tempted to want to make a statement about culture, to look outside of me and look at how they're not doing it right, whoever they are. And one of the beautiful things that happened as we struggled putting these words together is the Lord began just sort of flipping the mirror on me. And it came on the heels of run over by the grace train. So, you know, the whole grace that I've learned a lot more about the grace of the Lord. And it was sweet and tender the way that he did it, but he was almost. It's almost as if he turned the mirror on me. And he said, you know, Charles, if you treat Christy the way that I treated and loved the church, everything about your home changes. And if you love on your boys the way that I love you and you make their Stuff more important than your stuff. And then it was this second half of verse 14, which just. I mean, every time I hear it, I cringe because I don't have the monopoly on this, and I don't do this. Well, let everything that you do be done in love. And it was just. The Lord kept me there. And I don't get this right all the time, but some of the times I do. And when I do, our home is almost like the spirit of the Lord flows better when I love the way he loves us. And I know that. I can sense it. I can feel it. You were talking about the transition to manhood and the real thing that other cultures do. I went to Africa with my dad in 97 on safari. We were in Tanzania and we came upon a group of Maasai boys who were in the transition. Sorry, it's a bad word, because their culture's hijacked it. But they were moving from boyhood to manhood. And there was a thing that they do. They leave their house, they go out with a group, and they hunt, and they hunt certain things. And only when they hunt and kill those things do they then come back. Family then welcomes them back. They're also circumcised, but when we met them, they're all painted for war. They have bows that they've made, knives that they've made. And some of them are wearing the hide of a lion. Some of them are wearing the hide of a leopard or a cheetah, but they killed it, like with a spear. And that's their transition from. So then they walk in with that, and they're a man. We don't have that. I mean, my story is very different than yours. My dad. I hear you talk about your love of your dad and that because my dad, he loved me really well. I don't have a huge dad wound, so a lot of the stuff that I saw in Tanzania, I realized that my dad had done with me. But I look at my friends and I think nobody did that. Nobody bestowed on them that mantle. Nobody passed the baton.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

You know, when you invited me down to this, I'm to the point in life. I've been on the road for 41 years. The idea of getting on another airplane, I'm like. But. But I was really burdened with this. And I envy guys like you that. Because I have dad's struggles. My dad left real young. He was married six times. Drank, smoke, cussed, told dirty jokes, whatever you want to do. And so I think there's two Ways you learn stuff, you either have it modeled beautifully or, like you were saying, you do the anti, you do the opposite. But one thing I thanked God for was I knew I didn't want to make my kids feel like that. But I didn't know how to be a good husband. I didn't know how to be a good dad. But I could see guys that were good husbands, and I could see guys that were good dads, and I knew enough to go pick their brains. And I'm like, how do I stay married? You know, my dad can't stay married three years. How do I stay married? How do I be a good dad? And so I had. When you invited me to do this, I have a little thing in the middle of my Bible. I have a little card, and I said, please break my heart with the things that break your heart. And I think God is brokenhearted the way manhood is kind of crumbled. And so I'm like, man, any wisdom that I can pass along, ask me, you know, I am a good dad. I'm a really good dad. I'm a really good granddad. I'm a good husband. But it didn't just happen.

[Pastor Joby]

Well, Ali's original question about pride and how do you fight against it? Peter says, humble yourself. And so, Jeff, I mean, that's what you did. I mean, Drew, that's what you're saying. To go to another grown man and say, will you help me?

[Charles Martin]

Yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

That is a. Like, humility is not a feeling. I know we have different personality types and all of that. It is a posture.

[Tim Tebow]

Yes, it is.

[Pastor Joby]

I mean, one of the things. Listen, of all the people I've gotten to meet in my life, meeting you is one of the highlights. My daddy is like, he still can't believe it. And yet I've heard you say this three times already. You're like, I'm about two decisions away from hanging drywall for the rest of my life, you know? And you are one of the most successful human beings who's ever lived on planet Earth. For real. But your posture is not. Look at all that. I've done.

[Michael Waddell]

No.

[Pastor Joby]

Right. I mean, you've known him a long time, and I think humility is contagious. Yes. So when you get some grown men. Timmy, you're a humble dude, too. I've never met a more competitive human being than you in my whole life, but in the right context. But I've also never seen you take credit for a thing. And when you begin to demonstrate what a humble posture is, amongst other Men, then you're showing them what it looks like to not think less of yourself. Just don't think about you all the time.

[Tim Tebow]

That's right.

[Pastor Joby]

And that's a part of what it is to pass manhood on. And so, for folks that are listening, one of the things I loved being coached. I mean, part of what I loved about sports and all that was being coached and the mentors in my life, because I walked right up to him and said, would you please spend some time with me? I promise I'll make it worth your while. I'll do my best. I don't know what I can offer you, except I will. I will try to position myself in humility just to receive some things that you have for me.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

I read a thing yesterday. I wrote it down. It said, a man loves to have God tell him what to do.

[Pastor Joby]

Amen.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And so for me, that's what scripture's always been. It's like, I don't know how to do this. And God's like, I'll tell you how to do it. Come hang out with me.

[Matt Chandler]

My experience, experience with men is somewhere along the way, they pick up this lie that silent suffering is noble strength. And so they feel alone, but they've got to gird up their loins, and they got to figure it out. We've got a ton of big military presence at our. A lot of former operators, and that's the lie. So I think it's important that that's pride as much as we're not talking cocky arrogance here. The lie that I think has led to a lot of men destroying their lives is, this is all on me. I've got to do it, and I can't let anybody know that I'm warring like this internally. The guys I've been discipling the last eight years, it's silent suffering is noble strength.

[Charles Martin]

One of the things, like, part of.

[Matt Chandler]

What it means to be a man is to just deal with this until you can't.

[Ben Stewart]

Right.

[Matt Chandler]

Which is the problem with stoicism. Right. It's just like, stoicism sounds good until it doesn't work, and then what do you do? Oh, you kill yourself. Oh, okay. Well, that's not a good. That's not a good philosophy to live with.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

No doubt.

[Charles Martin]

One of the things Joby talks about in the book is, and I think he got it from our buddy Jeff Kopp, is the three most dangerous words a man can utter are, I got this. And it's a very freeing and humbling thing to get to the place where you say, I don't got this.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, yeah. The beginning of the Gospel, when Jesus preaches his longest sermon, Sermon on the Mount. The Beatitudes are not eight individual blessings conditional upon your circumstances. It is a building of the Gospel. And it starts with, blessed are the poor in spirit. So the moment you realize, uh, oh, I am bankrupt. Okay, perfect. You are perfectly positioned to now receive the kingdom of God. And, Matt, you're exactly right. What most men are trying to buy into is, I don't need anything because I've got this. It's the most dangerous thing you could ever believe.

[Michael Waddell]

You also gotta be careful, too, because, you know, if you grew up. I grew up very rural and, you know, and that was a word that you heard a lot. It was always, hey, boy, take pride in what you do. And it took me a long time to figure out the difference and what that can mean to a degree, in a positive way, and where it can be very destructive. Where the enemy slips in, you know, to where, obviously, I tell a story. Tim, you appreciate this. I remember my kid had made the Harris county bowl in football. And so coach said, hey, Waddell, can you come speak to the kids? This is a big game, you know, And I grew up playing football in high school stuff. So I went out there and I said, all right, boys. Said, I want y' all to realize every one of you got your last name on the back of your shirt. And I said, your mama's sitting up there in the stand, your daddy sitting in the stand, Grandmamas, granddaddies, everybody. And I said, in this game, take pride in your name and make sure every kid on the other team knows their name. And more importantly, them mamas up there are scared of you because your boy is playing against them. And so I said, and let them know your name. I said, that's why your name's there, so we can call it out. I said, but it's there because obviously you look at the greatest players. People know those names on the back of those jerseys because of what they did on this field. And of course, I'm speaking not necessarily from the stand firm situation here. I'm speaking try to get these kids fired up. And I said, so, by George, make sure they know their name. I said, hit them hard enough that they know your name at the end of. I said, and if they don't know your name, you tell them your name. So I got them all fired up.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

We were about to do some push.

[Pastor Joby]

Ups right now, but here's what was.

[Michael Waddell]

Funny, is they run out There. And our little team was on a kickoff receiving. And this kid, he was always just one of those kids who listened. Just a good, you know, coach, coach, favorite type of kid who would listen to you. And he come back. He come back in the wedge, and he just knocked this kid down flat. I mean, just pancake blocks and. And play went on. And I looked and he was screaming, my name is Seth Jacobs. My name is Seth Jacobs. He wasn't even worried about nothing else.

[Pastor Joby]

Like, oh, man, he took that pretty literally.

[Michael Waddell]

And so.

[Pastor Joby]

But I jumped a lot.

[Tim Tebow]

Yeah, good job, wherever you are.

[Pastor Joby]

Head on.

[Matt Chandler]

My head's on a swivel.

[Michael Waddell]

Seth, he was running around knocking fire.

[Matt Carter]

Out of people, but the kid he knocked down is going to wake up in a cold sweat at 42 years old.

[Drew Parker]

Exactly.

[Michael Waddell]

And I think a lot of us, you know, run around with that. I know I did. You know, and. And pride can get the best of you. And I think it's an easy thing to slip in. It's the easiest trick to the man of, Of. Of making you prideful. And, and it's crazy. And I. I was even thinking about what Jeff said, too, on the. The nurture you get from the people you're around. You said in the book, you know, show me your friends. I can show you who you are. And that's so true. And. But there's also something about nature, and I think maybe that's why God gets so disappointed when we do fail, because I don't think we were made instinctively to fail. You know, we talk about hunting a lot. I've never said this on any podcast, but, you know, I hunt, you know, for a living. You know, I'm always out. I'm either taking somebody. So I'm trying to figure out, how does nature work? How do I manipulate this turkey in range, how do I get close to, you know, the plains game in Africa? Where are we over there? How do we trick a bull elk? And it's funny, obviously, if you look, they don't really have a lot of nurture. It's all nature. And so in reality, when you look at that, I've never said a lot of that, even on some of the other podcasts, like a Rogan or anything like that. But you think about it, nature is strong the way we do have a certain natural aspect, and it is what we get. We call it nurture. But sometimes it's what we get that poison us. And I think that's what happens to society. I think that nature, we're pretty solid. We're Pretty pure. We have the instinctive to be a man. Just like we know that that tooth right there is a canine tooth, is for meat. Nothing against just being eating vegetables, but God put it there to tear a piece of beef jerky, I think.

[Pastor Joby]

And so at the end of the.

[Michael Waddell]

Day, I've learned that your nature can be stripped from you if you're not around the right people. As Jeff said, that not giving you the right nurture, not giving you the right encouragement, not giving you, right, the stopping on the side of the interstate like Jeff did with me and his busy schedule to tell me, hey, buddy, you're screwing up here. You need to think about your actions and all that. I think inherently I knew what was right and wrong. But you still can let your pride, you can let your ambition, you can let being comfortable, what you want, your desires get in the way of that. And so it's amazing how it all connects together with the right people and nature and nurture.

[Pastor Joby]

Well, the tricky thing about the enemy, just take nature. He takes everything that God creates and he tries to corrupt, you know?

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

And so God's fingerprints on every man. And instinctually there are some godly things about that. But then the enemy comes in and tries to twist that and corrupt it. Right. Appetites are a good gift from God, and yet the enemy comes in and then corrupts them. And so when it comes to pride, the. The crazy thing is every man, I mean, this is John Eldredge stuff where he says, at the core of every man, we've got this deep question, do I have what it takes? Well, the actual answer is, no, you don't. And if you don't get there, then you can never be the man God's called you to be. And yet the counterintuitive part with the Gospel is, but once you bend your knee to Christ, then Peter says his divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness. So in Christ Jesus, you can be, you can play the roles that God has assigned to you. You do have what it takes to play your role, to be the dad, to be the husband, to be the Christ follower, to be the man in this society. But if you get those things out of order and they get centered around self, then the enemy wins because he takes a good thing from God. Congratulations, you're a man. And then he corrupts it, and it makes it about you.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

I also think that there is a level of pride in, and believers and Christians in me just know for myself one area where God really impacted my life. I was 15 years old and we're on a mission trip in the Philippines and we got the opportunity to go into prison and I was going with one of my older brothers and we walk into the front office and it's not like a prison that we think of here, it's just a concrete block. And on the front there's just like little checklists and you're reading what everyone's in there for. And it's murder, murder, murder, rape, homicide, murder, drug lord, remember, you know? And then there's just a gate and there's a concrete block with all of these men that are just packed in there, just one room. And so my brother walks in first and I'm. I'm terrified. I'm like, I don't want to walk in there, but I'm like, if I don't walk in there to follow him, I'll never hear the end of it from my siblings, you know? And so we walk all the way to the back end and even the COs don't walk in. And I follow him. My head's down the whole time. And there's a five gallon bucket. I flip it over, I sit down, my brother starts preaching and he gets to the. The, the resurrection and he says, hey, stop, look at me. I just want all of you to know, though, I'm the one that nailed Jesus to the cross. And I look up and I'm like, what are you talking about?

[Pastor Joby]

No, you didn't.

[Tim Tebow]

If anybody did, they did, you know, And I just knew God was pricking my heart saying, no, you did, Timmy, you did. And I think there's this level of pride that we get as believers where we think, oh, I know Jesus, and look what Jesus has done for me. But why did Jesus do that for me? Because how. Because I was a traitor. Because I was an enemy to God and he went to the cross for us, like, the whip should be named after me. And sometimes we show up like, oh, man, I want to be this. I want to be a role model. No, sometimes the best role model I can be is by saying that I was a traitor, I was an enemy, and Jesus went to the cross for me.

[Michael Waddell]

Amen.

[Tim Tebow]

Like, it's my fault.

[Michael Waddell]

That's true.

[Tim Tebow]

And I think that should be a big responsibility that we take as men. Is saying, is looking at it that way. And that's one of that day. But many others from it has been part of how God's got ahold of my heart of fighting. That is to take an honest look of who you are. That's who I was, but God.

[Pastor Joby]

Amen.

[Tim Tebow]

But what he has done for us, I think that's.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

As Christians, I've always argued that we are the worst advertisement for the thing we believe in.

[Michael Waddell]

Yes.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Because I think at the moment of surrender, every one of us goes, God, I cannot do this. I've tried, tried, tried. I cannot do this. I need a savior. And as soon as we stand back up, we go. I'm a mess, but I'm not as big a mess as she is. I think to this day, we're still all enemies through sanctification. I'm not as big an enemy as I was 20 years ago, but I still don't love him the way that I should. I still. I mean, Lord, Tammy, I sit there every single morning on my porch and go, God, do not let me sit on the judgment seat today. That is not my job. Do not let me judge people. And tomorrow morning I'm going to be sitting up, back out there going, sorry about yesterday. Yeah, please don't let me sit on the judgment seat today.

[Tim Tebow]

What was crazy about Grace, though, even though I have let him down and I will let him down, and hopefully, Lord willing, was tried. He doesn't look at me that way.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

No.

[Tim Tebow]

He looks at me as son. He looks at her as daughter. He looks at us as friends. He looks at us as heirs. But sometimes we look at ourselves that way and we'll see and remember our sin, or we'll look at others and remember that sin. And it's also important that we remember that even when I screw up, God.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Still looks at me and says, simultaneously, we're enemies and we're sons of the Most High.

[Michael Waddell]

Amen. Amen.

[Ben Stewart]

That's great.

[Ali]

I want to talk about. We talked about the nature aspect. Like what is in the nature of a man. Like, what has God put, you know, imago dei, we are made in God's image. And there are things that separate men and women. What do you think every man is born with inside of them? Naturally, that maybe the world corrupts and twists. But what are some of those things that create a biblical man but that are already just inside of you as men?

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. The place I try to often go is the roles that Christ played and the way the book of Ephesians describes how a man ought to love his family. So you put those things together. That's provider, protector, prophet, priest. And I put the word servant in front of king, because every man hears king and he goes in the wrong direction. So that's it. Provider, protector, prophet, priest, and Servant, king. That's who a man is called to be in the kingdom of God. And a priest is somebody that takes care of people. A prophet tells the truth. A king creates the kind of environment where people can flourish. And then we know what it means to provide and to protect.

[Matt Chandler]

Yeah, that's what you. I mean, you're seeing that in the garden, right?

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Correct.

[Matt Chandler]

He makes Adam and he gives him the charge like you're gonna cultivate. So what's that? That you're gonna bring order to. You're gonna take chaos and you're gonna bring order to it and then keep it, protect it. So there's a unique strength given to the man. It's not the same thing given to the woman. And that's the. And I'm not trying to get my inbox filled up, but I think one of the things we lost in the Reformation was Catholics do a much better job of natural law than Protestants do. They would say, there are things that you can learn about God in nature. And you start biologically getting into what? Just males. Not even talking men, just males are born with. We're by and large stronger. And I know somebody is going to listen to this and be like, well, I've got an aunt that was in the CrossFit Games and my uncle was in a car accident and he can't even walk. So you're full. But that's like. I'm just going to let you be silly, whoever you are, ma'. Am. And the like, men are by and large stronger. We have thicker skin, Parts of our brain fire differently than others. And it's like a joke. Like the memory center of a woman is larger than in a man. And that explains my whole life to me why I can't find things. And Lauren knows exactly, or she remembers with great precision. But where our bones are thicker, I could just keep going. Like, there's a unique strength given to the man. For what purpose? Right. To cultivate and to keep. And then before sin even enters the world, he's like, bro, you're gonna need some help. And then makes a helper for him. To do what? To cultivate and to keep. So it's the same thing just seen, woven into the very fabric of creation. The man is unique, brought from the earth, breathed into the woman, comes from the man to help the man with what? Cultivation and keeping.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah, yeah, I think that's when you mentioned the language. Imago Dei. It's beautiful. In Genesis 1, you see the problem. Early on, the world was formless and void, lacked structure. And then lacked fullness. And so God in the first three days, builds the teleological support structures of life. See here. And land. Next three days, he fills them, fills the air with birds, sea with fish, land with animals and people. And then he looks at the man and says, do that, initiate. Exert your will on what is in front of you. And out of chaos bring order. But not just order. Order so that the life under your care can flourish. You've been using that word a lot. Cultivate for the sake of flourishing. You know, and the tragedy in the garden is when pride comes in. No, I'll just run it for me. And that pride is destructive to that. That's what's so, you know, it's disturbing because you think about the life giving and nourishing aspect of hunting. You know, I was talking about that like it's provision is what it's meant to be for the sake of the other. But then you get into Genesis 12 and you've got Nimrod. He's exerting himself. He's building a kingdom. He's a mighty hunter before the Lord. He's famous. I mean, he's proverbial. They say that it's like Nimrod, when someone did something good, they're like, that was like nimrod, good. And yet it's, let us build a city for ourselves, for our name, My kingdom, for my power and my glory. And when you take that energy of a man and that will and that creative capacity and power, but make it selfish, it's ugly and destructive. And then you watch Abraham. He's put as a contrast to Nimrod. He walks away and walks humbly with the Lord. And we know his name. We're the sons and daughters of Abraham. And Nimrod is a joke. And so it's that interesting balance of, I'm going to exert my will on the world, but from a place of humility for the sake of flourishing of others. And I think when a man does that, that's when the world wins, when the man wins, and that's when the world wins.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

But it's that pride, which that's Satan whispering in your ear, hey, he doesn't want you to eat from the tree, because if you do, you're going to be like him. Yeah. And the older I get, and I would tell people, listen to, I'm not strong and fast like he is. He's a better hunter than me. But I got that crown of wisdom, that gray hair. So, hey, guys, if you want to know how to do something, look for the dude with a little pee spot on the front of his pants because he's old and he's got that wisdom. It's not even our fault. You know how you, like when you're pumping gas. Gas and the pump will click to tell you it shut off, and then when you take it out of the car, it dribbles down the side of the car. The same thing that happens with us old guys.

[Matt Chandler]

When does that start? Feel like I might be getting.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

But, but. But I think an important thing for guys. I was thinking about this last night. They do it in war, but you do it in ball. Is self. Self scout. Is look at yourself as a guy and go, all right, if I'm the devil, how would I beat me? Where is my weaknesses? And, like, I used to do that when we did the blue collar tour. I've never been attracted to alcohol, never been attracted to drugs. I think girls are really cute, and that's what got my dad in trouble. But so, like, we would go do the show and then we would come back and the other guys would go, hey, Fox, we're going to meet downstairs and have a beer. And I don't. I don't think having a beer sends you to hell. I don't. But this is what I knew about myself. If I had one and we're joking and cutting up, I might have two. And if I had two, who knows? I might have three. Well, then all of a sudden, if somebody really pretty sat down next to me and they smelled good, I'm going to give her a lot of attention. Which is exactly the thing that got my dad in trouble and led to him walking away from marriages. So I knew that about myself. And so I would say, you know what? I'm going to the room, I'm ordering room service, and I'm calling my wife.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Not because I thought there was something wrong with the beer. Not because I thought there was something wrong. But self scouting, I knew that's my. That's where I would be weakest. If I was going to beat Jeff, that's how I would beat Jeff. And it requires you being honest with yourself, I think, as guys to go be honest. Where would I beat me? Well, that's exactly the place that the devil's going to go to with you.

[Michael Waddell]

And that's kind of part of that pride that we was talking about. You don't have. It's easy to not have the pride to say, here's my. You can look at the things that, you know, like Same with me. I never had any problems with drugs or alcohol or stuff. I could certainly still can have a beer and hang around and talk philosophy and have a good time. But you're right. It's easy to sit there and say, well, I ain't got them problems. But you can take one little thing, it could be that pretty girl that smells good or whatever, and all of a sudden it becomes the kind of kryptonite, so to speak. If you don't know that and you can't admit it, that's just a part of practice.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Well. And they would say, oh, you're a goody too. She's. I said, actually, I'm not. I'm susceptible, but that's why I'm going to my room.

[Michael Waddell]

I'm exactly that way.

[Pastor Joby]

Jeff now is like, yeah, temptation is tempting.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah. Deep. Let me write that down.

[Pastor Joby]

I say it all the time in our church. Nobody ever writes it down. I'm like, I'm telling you, that's the best thing you've ever heard. It's tempting. And if it's not temptation, I mean, if it's not tempting, that's not temptation.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

And so, I mean, should be a temptation. And you talk about it, you know, Use a fishing lure as an illustration. Every lure's got a hook. Yeah. And first John says, there's only three. It's lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. And so, just like any good bass fisherman, if lust of the. If pride of life doesn't work on you, he'll clip that off and throw the lust of the flesh. It's just what it is. And that's all rooted in pride. Because you think I got this and you ain't got this.

[Michael Waddell]

The lust part of it is pretty real because obviously, getting back to hunting, once again, I'm not out there with a bourbon bottle trying to trick a turkey.

[Tim Tebow]

That's right.

[Michael Waddell]

What are we doing? I'm acting like a very naughty hen.

[Pastor Joby]

With a mini skirt.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Hey, how many giant bulls and bucks have died that rut?

[Pastor Joby]

All of them. Yeah.

[Michael Waddell]

A lot. A lot of them. Yeah. They're either.

[Ali]

Are you gonna say something?

[Tim Tebow]

I don't know. I was just gonna to say Ben's had some amazing sermons on just the strategy of warfare and how our mindset and I. I love listening to those.

[Ben Stewart]

I appreciate that.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And it is warfare. Yeah. Every day.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah.

[Matt Carter]

You know?

[Ben Stewart]

Well, and that's the best self knowledge you can have is, how is he going to get at me? I thought what you said, it's good. I, we, we discerned early on with my accountability group. Guys, you know, in college, guys would form accountability groups and you'd sit around and go like, well, I was just really struggling this week. Well, I was struggling, too. Okay, well, let's try. And then it was all, you're like, with what, where, how? And then you're like, if every week you're struggling lust and failing, like, how good a fight is that? You know, like, if you're an MMA guy and you're like, man, I was struggling this week. And like, you're 0 and 74.

[Matt Chandler]

You're like, are you retired?

[Ben Stewart]

Are you just a victim? Or like, when you say sweet struggle, did you try to block? Did you try to punch? Was there any active movement on your part? And so when you go, like, I'm struggling with this slush, like, in what way and how? And I realized for me, the only way to do it is self sabotage. So having that awareness, how does it get to me? And I would call my accountability partner and just say, like, here's what's going to happen. Here's how the devil will play chess. Yes, I'll go downstairs, I'll do this. He's not trying to play checkers with me. He's going to beat me in 12 moves. He's going to let me be tired, a little lonely, a little discouraged. But I would say it all to this guy. It's like, here's what I'm going to tell myself. Here's what I'm going to do, you know? And so rather than like confessing afterwards, I was, let me sabotage myself to this guy. And I never wanted to make that call. And I never felt better than after I did it.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. But until you're a lure illustration, if you're a bass fisherman, do you care how you're catching them? You don't care if it's on a worm or a rattle trap. You just want to catch the fish or dynamite. That's with dynamite. Telecom wire might be a redneck. You, Ben, they float right to the top.

[Matt Carter]

You said something that made me think of an illustration that my mentor told me years ago. He looked at me, he said, matt, the enemy is not in a hurry to take you out. And he said, what he'll do? He said he doesn't typically take out young men. He said, what he'll do is he'll study you and he'll wait until you're at the height of your influence and he'll take you out. He said what he Will do. Using a fishing illustration, he said what he will do when you're young is he'll put little hooks in your mouth. Hooks of lust, hooks of entitlement, hooks of love, of money. He said, if you don't identify those and they'll stay in your mouth and they'll get festered. And then the right time, right place, he'll set that hook. And so you've got to get to a place where you identify what are those things that have the potential to take me out down the road. And you go to war with them right now?

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah. And like, pride. I mean, almost every guy at this table, we do better off financially. The more people that know your name. Right. Which is a weird thing to be. So this is the way I'm going to take care of my family, by people knowing my name. But how do I remain humble?

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

In that. And it's. I mean, that's one of those lures any. Anybody at this table could get hung on. I was. I was saying to Joby, dude, I feel bad for you because as the lead pastor of a big church, everybody wants to put you on a pedestal. That's a hard place to live because you can't fail. You can't have a bad day. If you're in public, you're somehow beyond just a regular guy.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. And I've had. I mean, Matt and Matt were lead pastors before me with lots of, whatever you call it, notoriety, and have been incredibly helpful. And Ben, to your point, I just went to them early, and they were gracious enough to give me a little time and ask the right questions and really dig in and do the man. How you're doing? Fine. And one more question. How you really doing? Call my kids by name and my wife by name and ask some specific questions. And that just comes back to Ben. I've said this at our church a lot lately. You ever notice how Christians don't sin anymore? Yeah, they just struggle. Nobody's sinning. They're like, I'm just struggling. I mean, bro, that's called a sin. That's what that is. And you know what? But it takes a lot of humility not to say I'm struggling with lust, but to say I sinned and looked at porn. We're talking about different things, because then you're actually fighting back, you know? And so I've invited some people into my life in all kinds of different arenas and areas to ask me questions, et cetera. Also with the elders at our church, I have given them the list of things that I would take me out with and say, if you really want to. If you really want to love me, my family and this church, ask me these questions. That's what I would do.

[Matt Chandler]

I had a friend tell me that if you're going to make it in ministry, whether notoriety or not, you got to have a king's table. And he was pulling it from the life of David. Like, every man needs a Nathan, an older, wiser guy, to be like, you're the man, right? When you get cocky, everybody needs a joab. That guy that's like, man, what hill are we taking? What are we building? Let's go get it. Let's go do it. Tell me what's in your head. I'm gonna make it happen for you. And then you needed a Jonathan, a lover of your soul. And he told me, he was like, joe, you'll find joabs everywhere. You're gonna have to work to get you a Nathan and a Jonathan. Yeah, you're gonna have to invite. You're gonna have to put yourself out there. You're gonna have to go first in vulnerability. But the guy, he was like, walking through David's life and he's going, look, when these three relationships are in place, he's actually doing pretty well. He loses Jonathan, the lover of his soul. And now, at a time the kings went to war, David was on the roof. And so I've always like that idea of a king's table. How do I develop that? How do I hold it? How do I create it? Do I have those three relationships? And the guy that taught me that, I mean, I'm just like. He's so, like, got joab in my seat. I got 40 Joabs ready to take the next hill. Jonathan's, that's a little harder.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And.

[Matt Chandler]

And then, honestly, Nathan's can be pretty hard to find. Like. Like a guy who, with great wisdom and discernment, who's, you know, 10, 15, 20 years older than me, can. Can help me see what I can't yet see as a 51 year old, about the next decade of my life. Go, man. You can do it that way. Just watch out for this if you're gonna do it that way. And so that for me, on the pride front, one, I want a king's table. And then, man, I've said this a lot. I think you like to be 99% known is to be completely unknown. And whatever that 1% is, is the devil's playground. So I just don't want any secrets from my guys. So I'm telling, like, my king's able to get my tax returns. Like, I don't want. I don't want a secret. I don't want my password. Look, you want to be my Covenant Eye guy? I mean, I'm just like, I don't want a secret from these three guys. They're four guys. Now, you go a level outside of that, I got a billion secrets from those suckers. But that king's table, that's shield to shield for me. That's like fighting in a phalanx. That Josh Patterson's. His shield's defending me, Mine's defending, man. Like, we're phalanx warfare there. But I ain't gonna be like that with everybody. But with that king's table for me. Like, I don't. I will not give the way.

[Michael Waddell]

Paul.

[Matt Chandler]

I'm saying, I'm not giving any space for sin. Paul says, give no provision to the flesh. Don't give it an inch, give it nothing. Take from it everything. Since we're on the Spartans. And that's. That's how you fight pride, man. You gotta have guys that can go, bro.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Matt Chandler]

What the hell are you doing? What's going on?

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Like, what was that?

[Matt Chandler]

Why'd you power up in that meeting? Yeah, why'd you feel like you had to use the force of your will against that resident? You know, what are you doing right? And without inviting that in, high capacity leaders aren't going to get it. They're going to have a table full of joabs, you know, ready to keep attacking, ready to keep going, and nobody to go.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Whoa, whoa.

[Matt Chandler]

You're a better man than that, what I just saw. No, no, no. That's not the kind of man you've said you want to be. It's not the kind of man God called you to be. And I need somebody to be able to say that to me and not get fired and not create a system that goes, well, you questioning me? And then, you know, Jimmy Hoffa, you know, where'd such and such go?

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Who.

[Pastor Joby]

Who are you talking about? Oh, no, I don't even.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Who? Who?

[Matt Chandler]

Yeah, who's that? No, I want that king's table to get me safely home. And that means I've got work to do because I'm a forceful presence, and that's a big, sharp part of my blade, but it also has a back edge, so I've got to do extra work to not just go, no, you can really do it, but when it happens, actually receive it in the way I invited it. To come. So that. That for me, is how, like, I know this can come get me. So not only guys be aware that this is here, but, man, the first little inkling, we don't have to get there. You see step one, you're like, hold up for a second. Was that step one on that list that you gave me? I was like, maybe. Thank you. Now I'm going to be watching.

[Pastor Joby]

And then, Matt, where a bunch of people fail, so they hear this. And so I will often call those guys mat carriers because of Mark. Two guys paralyzed on the mat. He's got four friends that tote him to Jesus. Do you have four guys take you to Jesus?

[Charles Martin]

Whatever.

[Pastor Joby]

So guys will do that. They'll be like, okay, you four, you're my guys. And then the first time they're like, hey, can we talk about something? And then the person that invited them in stiff arms, the accountability, and just takes a defensive posture. And then these guys are like, well, I didn't want to do this to begin with. I didn't sign up for this volunteer. I just did what you were asking me to do, so I'm not doing that again. So it is almost impossible to be defensive and humble at the same time. It's almost impossible.

[Matt Chandler]

Yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

And so if you're going to invite those men in, when God prompts them to love you enough to tell you some truth, please invite it.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

Just please invite it.

[Matt Carter]

And I'll say this, for any pastors that are watching, this, I mean, should be a lot. It's the three, three best preachers of our generation sitting on that side of the table, bar none. No question. And I know all three of them. And every single one of those guys has intentionally invited men into their life and have the opportunity to speak into their life consistently. But it's something that they invited into, and then when it happens, they receive it. There's a humility there that God is blessing. So I just want to encourage any pastors. Listen to that. If you don't have that, you got to fight for that, Matt. Because the guys in our lives that flamed out, that's because they didn't have that degree.

[Tim Tebow]

Can I. Can I add to that, though? I totally agree with that. But that's not just for pastors, of course.

[Pastor Joby]

No, no, I know what you're saying.

[Tim Tebow]

But I just want to encourage everybody else. It's for everyone, because I think we seek this. And you're like, you're hearing Matt and Joby and Ben and Matt, and you're like, okay, well, that's great. Because this responsibility they have. No, that's scripture for everybody. He who walks with wise will be wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm. In a multitude of counselors, there is wisdom. There's a reason why Proverbs says 30 times it uses the word musar, which means instruction, discipline, correction, or teaching. This is for everybody. Like, and guess what? When I even hear those, I don't like it. Instruction. I'm like, okay, that's okay. Discipline. Now that sounds sucky. Correction's bad teaching. That's okay, right? But like, it's a second core value for us at our foundation and for our companies and for our family. For myself, it's. Our second core value is to value and seek wise counsel.

[Ben Stewart]

Right?

[Tim Tebow]

To have that in your life. Because there's a reason that Proverbs says it over and over and over and over and over again. And I just want to encourage anyone, no matter where you're at in life, like, find people that not just. I know we use the word in church a lot. Accountability. But you're right if you don't actually share. So it's actually like someone that you're willing and talk to in the hard places. And man, I'm so grateful for so much of the wise counsel that I've had in my life before. Screw ups after screw ups in the middle of it, hard decisions, tough. I can't see it. And one of the things that I think so valuable about wise counsel is you only have your vantage point. But when you have wise counsel, they're seeing it from a different lens, from a different place in life, from a different perspective. And maybe God has given them a different angle to see what you're dealing with. And there's been so many times that that wise counsel has totally saved me from stepping in something dumb. And if I would have gotten wise counsel, other times, they would have saved me from stepping in something dumb. And it's just, it's priceless. And I just think that's why Proverbs preaches on it all the time. And it's some of the first verses after humility that my parents forced me to memorize or else I wouldn't be allowed to play.

[Drew Parker]

I would also say too, like, on the flip side of that, I struggled with this for a long time, sharing things that I was dealing with with people that I didn't know. On the flip side of that, if someone is sharing this with you, help them, pray for them, pray with them, receive this, let them know that they, you know, I always worried about, am I going to tell this guy and then he's going to go tell his wife and he's going to tell this guy, like. And maybe I shouldn't have worried about those things, but those were things that I worried about. But once I knew that someone was sharing something with me that I wasn't going to go share, that they wouldn't want me to share, I was willing to share, too. And help set pride aside when someone else sets pride aside. Kind of what I said earlier.

[Tim Tebow]

And I think it's important to be one of those people that if someone tells you something, you're not going to be the one to go gossip.

[Drew Parker]

100%.

[Tim Tebow]

We also need to be those friends for people.

[Drew Parker]

Exactly.

[Michael Waddell]

Because I think that's why, you know, finding that type of accountability, you know, is amazing. Because I always laugh at this when we're. I can be on the road with 10 guys and I don't have to ask them how they're doing, because you know what? They all say, good. How you doing? Good. I mean, you could go to death row right now and just tap somebody shoulder. How you doing, man?

[Pastor Joby]

Good.

[Tim Tebow]

No, you ain't doing.

[Michael Waddell]

And so. But so many times people, when you got those accountability partners, they see it. They already seeing through you ain't doing so good. It could be they seeing you drinking excessively way too much. Or you might be, you know, like, man, he sure has been traveling a lot or whatever, because so many times. And I feel like. And I could be stepping ahead of myself. I feel like women overall are better at communicating than us dudes. We can spend 12 days in Alaska. So many of my friends. And I'll get back from a trip. And I hear that. Did you know so and so is losing his house, man. He's going through some financial strain. I'm like, no, man, I just was with him. He said he was doing good, you know, and so I've learned that with me. And maybe that's something. Something to that.

[Pastor Joby]

Well, the Chandler's language with the king's table. I. I would highly encourage you to. You got to deputize these people. You cannot just assume that they're your matt carriers. They're your king table. They're your foxhole brothers. You got to say, this is what I am counting on from you. So that. So that those assumptions aren't just made so you don't think they're. Because they may think they're three layers out and you were counting on them.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

I agree.

[Ben Stewart]

Yep.

[Matt Chandler]

When you think about conversations Correct.

[Ben Stewart]

The, you know, we were talking about how is a man forged? It's in that crucible of community it's bestowed by older men. We talk about, you know, and I've thought a lot about what you were saying, Jeff, just because my own childhood experience too there was. My father was not walking with the Lord when I came out. My parents divorced early and I really saw like where the biological family fails, the spiritual family steps in, you know, And I watched that happen for me. And accidentally, I guess, in a sense, my first job was a youth pastor was 21. The pastor asked me to preach the first month on parenting.

[Matt Chandler]

That's the most church thing I've ever.

[Ben Stewart]

Heard in my life. So I listened to a Tony Evans sermon and then proceeded to attempt to preach like Tony Evans as a 20 year old white man.

[Matt Chandler]

Thanks for clarifying.

[Ben Stewart]

But one of the things I did was I was like, why I need to know what a good parent looks like. And you know, Paul says that he used the Greek word scopos. Scope out those who walk according to the pattern you see in us. And I was like, I don't want to, I just want to watch. And what I did was I watched the kids in my youth ministry and I'm like, who were healthy, happy, well adjusted kids. And I asked their dads if I could take them to dinner and they all said yes. They all were willing to talk to me. And I think about that, you know, we were talking about humility and talking about that need for mentorship. And I go, I think that's how men are forged, is you look who's walking according to that pattern the Lord gave us. Do I have the humility to go and ask for them to help? It was embarrassing how hard it was for me to ask for help, how dangerous pride can be and how I thought they would shame me. And you know, like, I didn't know how to handle finances. And one of them was like, I do that for a living. This is fun for me. And I'm like, oh, this was a source of deep shame and pain for me. But just realizing like, oh, the enemy's the one who wants to shrink my world that way. But humility's the doorway into forging me into a responsible man. And so Paul told Timothy, flee youthful lust. Pursue righteousness, love, joy and peace, along with those who call out to the Lord out of a pure heart. And I think the mistake I made sometimes is wanting guys to be that pack that's running with me. But they weren't calling out to The Lord out of a pure heart, you know, I'm not judging these guys. They might be at the church, but I'm like, at the end of the day, you need someone that wants to run as hard as you do. And David and Jonathan, that was them. And it worked. And so I'm always scoping out and going, who wants the Lord? Who wants to walk with him? I need to be near men like that. I need that. And I think that's the keys to forging men.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Well, I think one of the things men struggle with because, like, when I was thinking about doing this was being aware, like you're talking about. I was with the guy for a week. I wasn't aware he was in financial trouble. I think awareness. I don't know why guys do this, but sometimes we're not as aware. And one of the big influences in my life, the little town I grew up in, Hapeville, by the airport in Atlanta, was where Chick fil a started. Until I was in high school, we had the only Chick Fil a on the planet. But Truett Cathy was a big influence in my life. And I remember being a kid and Truett said to me one time, do you know how to tell when somebody needs encouragement? And I was like, no, sir, Mr. Cathy. He said, if they're breathing, he said, everybody needs encouragement. It doesn't cost you anything to give it to them. 60 years later, I remember that. But here's the beautiful thing about encouragement is it makes you be aware. Because you start walking in and I walk into a restaurant and go, who can I encourage? Oh, that person over there at the counter. Nobody's. They look sad, you know, nobody's talking to them. And it made me aware. It's like when you're, when you actively looking for somebody to be encouraged, you see somebody not doing as well or somebody. And I'm like, so glad that this man put that in me. It was that that one little three second lesson really impacted my life.

[Tim Tebow]

But if I can encourage you. I have seen the times we have hung out. You have done that so well every single time. Whether you've gotten off stage before, when in the green room, when you know other people are like, no, don't bother me. Every time I've been with you, whether it's been for a ministry or just fun, or it's been, you know, for, for your work or whatever. Every time I have seen you have been aware to the people you were talking to, you treated them as the most valuable thing in the world. When you were Talking to and I have seen you do that and I love was one of the first things that I just was like, oh my gosh, this guy's awesome. Like it was so real and genuine. And you didn't have to, you don't have to, but you choose to. And I just want to say I am very, very grateful for that.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

All honor to Truett Kathy for that.

[Pastor Joby]

And if you walk into the room looking for somebody to encourage, you're not thinking about what are people gonna say and think about me.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

You're not thinking about you.

[Pastor Joby]

That's humble.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

I tell my kids that I said, if you look at the people older than you and you go, that's what I would want my life to look like. I said, none of them are going to be self focused people. Every one of them is others focused when you look at them and go, that's what I want my life to look like.

[Ali]

I'm curious if anyone else remembers something an older man told you at some point in your life that many years later today you often think about or have tried to pursue in your life. Does anything else come to mind for anyone?

[Michael Waddell]

Me and Jeff could probably go about seven hours going up in the South. Cliches and metaphors. Yeah, I never got just a regular sensible. It was always some metaphor, you know, I don't know what it was, you know, but there's many of those.

[Pastor Joby]

But the first time I ever preach and I was just volun told that I was preaching. So I'm standing in the back of this youth conference thing. It's not a conference. It was a Southern Baptist camp with about 95 middle school kids. And Coach Boley, the guy that led me to Christ, said, boy, you about to go sing? I mean go preach. And I was like, what? So he just told me to go. So I was like, what do I talk about? He said, talk about Jesus. Talk about 30 minutes, you're up. And so I preached on John 3:16 because I knew I could find it. I mean, I'm serious. And when I walked off, he put his finger in my chest and said, boy, when you teach the Bible, I see them come alive. And I see you come alive.

[Ben Stewart]

Wow.

[Pastor Joby]

And it's a huge reason why I'm in the ministry because that's just what he said. And then there's another one that gets me every time our elders do like an annual review, you know, and Lars Peterson is one of our elders. He's been the most influential man in my life in the last 15 years. And you remember that Scene from Saving Private Ryan at the end when he looks at his wife and says, tell me I'm a good man. Right? And Petey will just look at me and go, you're a good man. And I can't get through it. I know it's coming. I mean, it gets me right now. And there's something about just a man telling you, you know, bathed in the gospel. I'm proud of you, buddy.

[Ben Stewart]

Wow.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

And it just makes you want to live up to it again for next year, you know?

[Jeff Foxworthy]

It does. And it's. It's. You know, when you. You talk about, like, biblically, I think there's so many men that never got the father's blessing. But there's a. But there's a brother's blessing as well. And that's what you're talking about there. It's a brother go. Somebody that you respect that goes, you're a good man.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. I don't want to. I'm gonna give it one more, and that's encouragement.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

We planted this church in 2012. God breathed on it. It blew up in a positive way. We're out of room. We're gonna go multi site. I knew the village was doing that at that point. I was just a raging fan of Pastor Matt Chandler, listening to everything that I could get a hold of, and somehow got on the phone with him, and he took. And first of all, I thought, why in the world would he take time with me? You know? And he takes my call, we chat for a little while, and he asked me this, what are you afraid of? Cause I was hemming and hawing about, you know, it cost millions of dollars, and what if it doesn't work? And. And I just said, I'm afraid I'm gonna be the limiting factor. And I said, I don't wanna let the Lord down. And then in the most Matt Chandler way, he said, bro, you're not holding him up. I was like, all right, well, okay, I guess we're gonna be best friends. So.

[Michael Waddell]

But then.

[Pastor Joby]

So he simultaneously reoriented me to the grand narrative of the scripture, you know, and then just encouraged me and then just was like, listen, man, you're God's man for this season, for that place. And so it was like, don't think too highly of yourself, but also, don't think too lowly of yourself. God has chosen you for this moment. You've got a great team around you. You've got elders above you. You got a wife that loves you. You should swing for the fences.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

And I mean, it was, you know, maybe a 20 minute conversation, but it changed a lot.

[Drew Parker]

I'll say that, too, about this guy sitting right here. And this is going to be hard for me, but this guy came into my life in a very weird time in my life. And I know a lot of y' all don't know much about me, but I'm in the country music business and I write songs and played shows, and I felt like the Lord was working in my life, trying to get me to do something different. And I kept stiff arming God, and he just kept working on me and kept working on me. But I was in the middle of my record deal. I was putting out a full length record. That record label was sending a song to country radio again. And I kept going, God, this is what I moved. This is what I left Georgia, moved to Nashville to do. And the Lord began to work in my life. And I played a show in Jacksonville, got to play golf with this guy, and we hit it off. And the very next week.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

He just.

[Drew Parker]

Told me that he felt like the Lord wanted me and him to do like a disciples meeting. And so I would say for the last year, we meet regularly. And I will never forget he asked me if I was loving God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength, and you would have to give out the whole thing that you did. But he laid it all out that it made so much sense to me. And I think because he's a redneck and I'm a redneck, it just made sense. But that was a moment for me where a man saw maybe the Lord working in my life and just presented the opportunity to encourage me in that moment. And I just want to say thank you in front of all these dudes because I think another thing is just encouraging people in front of other men. It's another moment that sets pride aside to go, hey, man, this is weird for me to say this to you, but thank you and man, I love you.

[Michael Waddell]

That reminds me of a saying when you said that. An older fellow told me one time, better tardy than absent. And he took me, I was actually went out on a date with his daughter, and I said, we got to hurry, we're going to miss the movie. And he looked at me, said, boy, he said, let me tell you something, you can be late for that movie. You'd be way better off tardy than absent. And I think about that now a lot, Ali. As I think about my life, so many things, man, it's late in the making, but I'd rather Especially when you think about heaven and. And, you know, spiritually, I'd way rather be, you know, tardy than absent, because if you miss it. And so that was something that stuck with me that at the time applied to pretty in the physical form of, you know, you can be a little late in, but don't be absent. So, yeah, better tardy and absent with something. That's kind of what we're talking about. I'm honored like you just to be sitting here amongst us men and hearing and sharing thoughts.

[Ali]

All right. Oh, go ahead.

[Matt Chandler]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Better be good.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah. Well.

[Ali]

We'Re going to wait too behind for you.

[Ben Stewart]

Help us along here.

[Tim Tebow]

Yeah, I just brag on, you.

[Michael Waddell]

Know, it.

[Pastor Joby]

Soon he starts bullying people around.

[Matt Chandler]

Dude thing ever. Like, he's getting a little too intimate here, little too vulnerable. Let me poke fun at you now.

[Ben Stewart]

I was gonna. You asked a mentor. Older person. Greg Mott is one of the. Continues to be for me. You know, I was sitting by myself in the lunchroom in college. Cause I didn't have a lot of friends. And he came and sat by me. I didn't know who he was. Started angling to share the gospel with me. And I'd grown up in, like, Christian circles, so I was like, this guy's trying to. He's trying to win himself one. I had long hair at the time, wore all linen. I was like, this probably would be a good get for him. But I ended up at this Bible study he led. He ended up inviting me to travel with him while he preached. And I remember he would just spout off stuff in the car as we would drive through Texas and speak at these camps. And one of the things he said is, before I walk into any lunchroom, I just pray, lord, who do you want me to sit by?

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And he goes.

[Ben Stewart]

And sometimes it's my friends or people who ran the camp or whatever. He goes, something small, but just sometimes it's not. And I remember I started to do that, and I went and sat by this kid at a camp, and this counselor came up later crying, going, how did you know to do that? I said, do what? And she starts listing off all these tragedies in this kid's life. She said, it's a miracle he's here. And the camp pastor walked right in, walked straight to him, sat down. I was like, I didn't know that. I just knew to pray that. And then I realized, oh, that's what Greg did to me. Because I was the kid all by himself. I'm like, oh. But he used to Pray, Lord, I am willing to be used by you today. Which, you know, you think you're supposed to say, like, I want to be used by you, but I just think there's something really honest about, like, usually we're like, I just kind of want you to solve my problems and stay out of my way, you know? But to say, like, lord, I am willing to be used by youy to be on your agenda today, I always feel like that's. Prayer's a challenge in my head every morning. Am I just trying to get my to do list done, or am I willing to be an instrument in God's hands today? And so Greg's prayer is in my.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Head all the time.

[Matt Carter]

It was pretty amazing, too, because I was at the Memorial Student center at Texas A and M having lunch, and a guy walked up to me named Greg Mott and asked me to hang out with him. And it was that moment, that day, that conversation, then ended up leading me into the ministry. And so you and I just now figured that out. But he's responsible for two guys that had.

[Matt Chandler]

Well, make it three. He was my camp counselor the year I became a Christian.

[Matt Carter]

Let's go.

[Ben Stewart]

Greg Mott.

[Matt Chandler]

Greg Mott repping here at the table.

[Michael Waddell]

Hey, Tim. And you know what, Jeff? You got to take it back.

[Drew Parker]

It was good.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Okay.

[Ben Stewart]

Okay, everybody.

[Pastor Joby]

Okay.

[Tim Tebow]

But if you don't cut it, if you think about work, huh?

[Matt Carter]

If you think about the power and the impact of him simply just walking up and having a conversation birthed out of a prayer, God, would you use me today? You can't measure that fruit.

[Charles Martin]

Ali, you asked a question about a man who had done something to bestow on you. When I was younger, I think I was about 13 or 12 or 13, and I had lied to my dad pretty badly, and he caught me in it. And rather than shame me.

[Michael Waddell]

He said.

[Charles Martin]

Son, at the end of the day, all that we have are words, and they are either true or they are not. I was able to see that I had broken my dad's heart, and I didn't like that. Years later, we were watching. He and I were watching a John Wayne movie together. And there's a movie, a John Ford John Wayne, where John Wayne says, words are what men live by. And I remember thinking, dang, my dad sounds like the Duke. And then I figured out that I love the word. And somewhere in Matthew 12, Jesus says, from the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So as a guy who has.

[Ben Stewart]

Made.

[Charles Martin]

A life, not just a living, but a life with words, that's Been something that the Lord has done with me and the truthfulness of my words and do they reflect his heart. And I could talk about all of you and how you all have affected me and impacted me just in your life. But I had a thought last night which may surprise you, and you may think I'm blowing snow, but I was not a good. I was not a good student. I had a tough time getting out of school. And I listened to you a lot.

[Michael Waddell]

I could.

[Charles Martin]

I mean, I wanted to be the Clampets, go to Maui. I could speak Jeff Foxworthy better than I could speak a lot of things. And it was. I don't know why. I just. You spoke my language. But there was a thing that happened that I realized later. Most people in my profession write profanely. They just do. You didn't. And I remember thinking. I was in college when I started writing. I remember thinking to myself, flannery o' Connor also did this. She said, for the near blind, you have to write awfully large caricatures. John Grisham said the same thing. But I had the thought, thinking to myself, if he can tell stories and make people laugh that way, can I tell stories that don't profane that way? So in front of all these folks and whoever's going to see this, if this is my only chance I ever get to thank you. Thank you for the way that you told stories.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

I was just scared my mom was going to show up, sit in the back of the room, you know, So.

[Michael Waddell]

I just thought he wrote them. After all, just being around my family.

[Ali]

Honestly, we talked a lot about pride. I wanna move to another lure that you talk about in the book. And I actually wanna read a quote from one of the chapters. This is about comfort. And you say, pastor Joby, there's a part of the American dream that is 100% at odds with the message of the gospel. The pursuit of comfort. Nowhere in scripture does it say to pursue it or that God owes it to you. If you wanna pursue a comfortable life, then do not follow Jesus. Just don't. And so I wanna talk about, where do we see this fight? How we're losing men to the idol of comfort right now.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. This is. While I'm incredibly grateful to be an American and live in America and all of God's great grace is upon us. Something that has been corrupted is this idea that we are put on this planet to pursue our own pleasures at others expense, to pursue our own comfort. Chandler already said it. The thing that got David in trouble is when he Abdicated his responsibility. It was the time for kings to go to war. And instead of him playing the role God had assigned to him, he starts out on a couch before he ends up in bed with Bathsheba. And it is a dangerous, dangerous thing. I mean, my daddy just. He used to always say, men are like flatbed trucks. They drive straighter with a heavy load. And when people begin to abdicate responsibility, it is a very, very dangerous thing. I think we are to steward that responsibility that God has given us. And it's a real gift to us. It is not a gift to us to chase the American dream, make all the money we can, and then, like Piper said, waste your life by just collecting seashells for the rest of your life. But we need to leverage it for the advancement of God's kingdom. Pushing back darkness. We only have one life. May we not waste it on the simple pursuits of comfort.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah. You know, part of, like, when I was a kid, I got saved when I was seven. But I can remember being a teenager and thinking, you know, part of Christian guys are just do goodies, do good. And I didn't want to be a do goodie as I've aged. You know, what makes the roller coaster fun is you don't know what's coming. Driving across the desert on a flat, straight road is boring as rip. What makes the roller coaster fun? What's over the hill? And so I got to the point where I'm like, I'm going to embrace the adventure of whatever today's going to be. I think that's part of being a man. You may put something in front of me today that I was totally unprepared for, and it may not be a lot of fun. You know, when he says, feed my sheep, people think of sheep being fluffy and white. The only place they are is in Sunday school when you're making them out of cotton balls. Sheep are covered with crap. Sheep are dirty. Sheep have cuckle burrows in them. They've got poop all over their butt. Sheep feed my sheep is a nasty job. Well, some days you go over the hill and that's what you got. It's a nasty job. Or some days. I remember when a guy asked me would I start a small group with homeless guys. And I'm thinking, there's 6 million people in Atlanta, and you can't find anybody better qualified than me to do this. Really, dude? One of the greatest things ever. All I did was say, yes, I'll do it. But that's part of the adventure. And Isn't that the fun of being a guy?

[Michael Waddell]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Isn't that why we like to hunt? Isn't that why we like to climb a mountain? Isn't that why we like to go out on the boat? Because there's. There's part of us, even when we become responsible men, that 10 year old boy's still inside there, no doubt. And so I love the adventure of it, of not knowing.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Now when people say to me, hey, what's God doing down there in the mission? I said, I have no idea. I'm just glad he lets me show up and be a part of it. But I have no idea what he's up to.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. One of the questions I get asked a lot, I get asked personally about you, Tim, because people know you attend church here and they're like, what's he really like? Because, you know, everybody's always a critic and they want to know if there's some angle and I don't know, a man that has leveraged what the world would call success for the kingdom of God like you. I mean, and I know you, dude. I mean, know you know you. And it's like you wake up every day thinking how in the world we're gonna push back darkness, rescue people, chase after the people that the enemy's trying to take out. But God loves. I mean, you cry about it publicly and privately. If anybody could just kick it back and just rest on their laurels, you got a sweet sec network hookup, you can go talk about football wherever you want. And half the time when I'm like, hey, dude, what are you doing this weekend? He was like, well, I'm in another part of the world right now trying to rescue children from trafficking, so I have to call you back. I mean, you have been a guy, have never known you that when the king, when it was time for the kings to go to war, for you to be laying on the couch, you've leveraged everything and it's inspiring to a bunch of people, older, younger, and, and, and well done, man.

[Drew Parker]

Well done.

[Tim Tebow]

Yeah, thank you. I don't know that I've done it that well. Missed the mark on it a lot. But I tell you what, one goal, even though I've missed the mark on a lot, is I just dream and pray. Maybe I would have the blessing of showing up to heaven exhausted.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, let's go.

[Tim Tebow]

Just think it would be a really bad day to get there well rested.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

Really bad day.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah.

[Matt Chandler]

There's something powerfully transformative about suffering. The thing that we're all trying to avoid is the thing that can produce some of the best gold or if I'm quoting Spurgeon, the choicest wine. Like, but it's that thing that we're afraid to experience that actually turns us into the kind of men that we hope we are. And that's what James is talking about. Like when he's like, hey, like this is going to happen. Sin's entered the cosmos, it's fractured. Suffering's going to happen. And when it does, like, here's how you judo suffering, you consider it all joy. Why? Because it's producing something that nothing, no amount of comfort, no amount of money, no amount of affection, no amount of encouraging words is going to produce in you. I'm going to drill deep in you and show you what's in there. And this is a very unique perspective for Christians in particular, if we're looking at other world religions, like to embrace the suffering that comes as maybe not being authored by God, but certainly not stopped by him coming into our lives and that he isn't wasting time, anything. And so I've loved kind of we're not the only ones responding to the masculinity crisis. And you alluded to it on the, you got the goggins and the hard right kind of madness happening too. And so I don't think, man, you gotta run a, you know, 150k to be a man. You gotta blow your knees out and be miserable. But I do think you have to choose the hard thing and be willing to be uncomfortable and willing to embrace the suck. Because I think any man I've ever been around expect knows the joy of a hard fought victory. They know the joy of a hard fought victory. Not, not a cheap one, not a, I cheated and I won. That's hollow. Not just I, you know, I didn't earn that hunt, but I suffered for that hunt. It's a like you, you knock down a bull elk at 11,000ft that you had to chase for a few days, that's a whole different hunt than a Texas hunt where you were in a blind and you know, at 3:32 every day that buck's coming out and you just pop him down. That, that feels good at first, right? But it doesn't feel good at all after you knock down that bull and you suffer, you know, quartering him, hiking out, right, like, that's a very different experience. I have seen men like we, we, we've taken some of our guys up into the mountains, like, let's, let's get up on a fourteener, like 60 year old men just weep around a campfire and say, I've never told anybody this in my life. When I was 32 and the only thing I could pull out that was unique was that we had spent the whole day suffering together. We had packs on our back. 82 sounds awesome until you're at 11,000ft and then 82 is 107 or whatever it is. And that shared suffering then created a bond between us. And it happens in football, a dang sure happens in the military where those guys born of blood and suffering and hardship, they have a hard time. Like the guys I'm discipling right now, they had a real hard time joining a home group at our church. You know, here they'd been in the box all these time. Then they come home, some guys talking about how Dak can't throw a back shoulder fade and they're like, what the hell are we talking about here?

[Ben Stewart]

What are we doing?

[Matt Chandler]

Like they want in it. Like, what's the mission? Where are we going? What do we got to do? How are we going to suffer together? How do you build this? And so that's the loss. When the comfort idol, which Keller called a source idol, the idol underneath the other idols, when you give yourself over to that man, you're just losing a knowledge of how much strength is actually in you, how much ability is actually in you, how much like I love where the Bible talks about endurance like that this produces endurance. You can't just like decide to have endurance. You have to endure, you have to bleed, you have to sweat, you have to train. That's right, you have to. I don't want to do this, but I'm gonna do it. And so I, I think comfort's one that's just killing us right now. I wish brothers would choose the hard thing for the good, the gold. The thing that James tells us it produces when it's finished, its good work.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

It's one of the mysteries of God. I've pondered that so many times. You know, consider it pure joy and whether you're. When you're going through trial. But human beings for some reason handle adversity better than we handle success. Very few people handle success well. But I have like always thought about Mary pondering these things in their heart. And I've been through neck issues where I've had my neck fused and time to time have some pretty cool pain from that. And to change the way I think to thank God for that as I'm going through that.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, James says when you face it. So, like, I think we can all get our head around Romans 8:28, where, like, you look in the past and see how God was in charge of it. But James is like, when you meet it, you say, hey, how you doing? Suffering. Like, I'm gonna take pure joy in this because of what it's gonna produce. I shared this a couple weeks ago when I was. I was coaching my son in high school football, and everybody was just jacking around in the gym because all they wanted to do was curl.

[Tim Tebow]

It's a great story.

[Pastor Joby]

Like, iPhone in their curls. And I'm like, what are you. I'm losing my mind, man. And I scream out, everybody wants to be strong. Nobody wants to be sore. And I thought, well, that's American evangelicalism right there, isn't it? Everybody wants this deep, abiding walk with Jesus. You just don't want to grind, you know? And oftentimes what's crazy is that we pray that God will remove us from the gym, that he may have us walking through the valley of the shadow of death just so that we know him. Because it's only there when he strips everything away, where we go, oh, it's just you. It's you. And so James out ahead of it says, you could be walking through one of those seasons. And Romans 8:28 is still true. God loves you. He's got a purpose and a plan for you. He's still in charge. And you're only going to get strong by doing the deep, squat, deadlift, power, cling, suffering that makes it hurt. So that when you get on the field, you'll be able to do what you can do.

[Michael Waddell]

Amen. I was thinking about that the first time I saw the Badlands. Remember, I was standing, looking like, holy cow. I see why they call it the Badlands. But what hit me harder is, was I was thinking about those early American settlers. And I could just picture, you know, obviously now if you look geography wise, they had to go through Missouri, possibly Kansas. And I can just picture, you know, a lot of men being this group. Like, I know this is pretty, baby, but it's rivers flowing, green grass, there's plenty of deer, but the promised land still ahead. I can just promise, you know, thinking, going, like, we're not going to be satisfied here. We're going west. And then finally, can you imagine standing on that outlook of that bluff of the Badlands with your wife and like.

[Pastor Joby]

And she's like, I told you we should have stopped.

[Michael Waddell]

I mean, holy cow. And you. But I thought about that and think, well, we might not have found California had some. I picture a dude. I'm not saying a woman wasn't involved in that, too. Like, no, let's go. Let's keep going, you know, But I feel like it was, you know, somebody who acted and talked like me that said, no, this. This is beautiful. Missouri's nice. I think they call it Missouri, but let's keep going. But sooner or later, you made it to Oregon, Washington, and still not a lot of people live in the badlands, but somebody had to go through it. And so I think about that life. And a lot in perspective to life is like, just keep going. Can't be completely satisfied.

[Drew Parker]

It seems like Joby, you were talking about, don't want to. Everybody wants to be strong. Nobody wants to be sore. And there's something funny, too, about a situation that I found myself in. I was comfortable with where I was at with the Lord in my life until I was sitting in a chair where somebody was asking me questions that I didn't have answers to. And I could have been the person that led them to the Lord. And they're asking questions, and I'm like, I mean, it's in here somewhere, but. And I was just. I was just comfortable with where I was at. And I'm telling you, I didn't want to get caught in that situation ever again. And that was the unbelief of someone is what kind of stirred in my heart to seek after the Lord even more. Because I realized I had gotten comfortable, and I quickly was uncomfortable in a situation, and I didn't want to feel that way anymore.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Ben Stewart]

Well, no one sits on the couch watching a movie about a guy sitting on a couch. You know, you sit on the couch, watch a movie about someone risking going on an adventure to accomplish something worthy of that expenditure of energy. And that's what you're watching, you know, and you go, why do we pay so much money to watch that? Cause it's so in us to want. We're built for that. And there's nothing wrong with watching movies, but if all you're doing is movies and video games, you're just settling for this really cheap copy of it. And so I just think we're made for that adventure. And comfort rages against that. I've got a buddy that his mantra is, I want to do hard things that matter with people I love. And that's kind of how he decides what he's going to be about. And I think about that in D.C. all the time. I mean, on the way here, I made a long list of things I am very unhappy about in our current situation at church. I mean, I was just complaining to the Lord. I'm like, none of this sounds like, stand firm. Act like men. We got to go on a journey emotionally, not just physically on this plane. But I was like. I just was writing out all these challenges, and I was like, I just felt this comfort from the Lord that James, like, you are using this, aren't you? You're building something in us. This is all preparatory. This is all Karate Kid. You're giving me skills I don't even know. I just felt that even though not all of them are resolved, I'm like, okay, then I accept that. I want to live a life of adventure. And when I see him at the end, we're accountable for that. That's one of the things that we don't talk about as much in modern Christian circles. But Jesus said that, I've given you a stewardship pragmatiza. Make a profit, do something with it. And then I will see you at the end and say, what did you do with it? And if you say, well, I was a little worried about the risk, so I just buried this. He's like, no, I want you to do something with the life I gave you.

[Pastor Joby]

He calls that man wicked. Wicked and slothful.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah, that's what you got to look at, is go, hey, this was all had a purpose, and I don't want to miss that. And so there's the benefit of feeling alive. But then there's also. I didn't just find a sense of meaning. I engaged the meaning I had. And it's wild when you look at all the places in scripture where we're told, act like men, be strong. Who was he saying it to? Moses was saying that to the people who came after him. It was said to Joshua. It was said to David. You know, it's said to these men that we're about to step into fulfilling God's calling for their life. And fulfilling God's calling for your life is scary. And so whenever that moment comes, God says, be strong. Don't be afraid. Be a man. And you go. It takes that courage, but it's where you're most fully alive.

[Ali]

Let's talk about what it means to be strong. Because one thing I love about what you write in the book, Pastor Joby, is we have an idea of what strength looks like. But the gospel kind of flips that on its head. So how would we define what it means? To be strong as a godly man.

[Pastor Joby]

Well, my favorite place to talk about this is in Matthew, chapter 20. You know, the two boys and their mom, and they're chasing after all of what the world would say, success, elevation, strength is. And then Jesus in that whole chapter just flips it all the way upside down. It's like, you have no idea what you're talking about. The one thing that the mom does understand is that proximity to Jesus is what matters. She does come to him, kneel to him. She's just. She's asking. Even if she has the right intentions, she's asking for the wrong thing. And he says some things like, well, first of all, that's not mine to hand out. So one of the things strength is, is to learn. To learn what it is to live under authority. That you can never expect God to give you authority until you learn to live under authority. Ultimately, at the end, he just sums it up this way. He's like, listen, man, you want to be first, you go last. You want to be the greatest, you be the greatest service. I didn't come to be worshiped. I came to give my life as a ransom for many. And he just. He's not saying, don't be strong. He's not even saying, don't be great, because they want to be great. And he never chastised them for wanting to be great. He just redefines greatness in an upside down kingdom where to be great is to be like him.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

You know, I think I remember one time in one of my small groups, a guy just had a. Like, Timmy just had a new baby, and he's confessed that his wife was belittling him and he played football. But he's like. She was saying, he's not changing diapers, he's not doing diapers. And he goes, men don't do that. And I remember, I said, you know what men do? Men do whatever needs doing at the moment.

[Pastor Joby]

Amen.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

If it's washing the dishes. Cause your wife is, you know, Harold, doing something else. If it's changing a diaper, if it's cutting the yard, if it's picking up the tree branch that fell with. That's what men do. They do whatever needs doing. And I don't. I've changed a billion diapers. But I. And I think that's what strength is you become when you're aware, you look around, it's like, what does this situation need? And sometimes it doesn't need you to do anything. Sometimes it needs you to push yourself to the limits Sometimes it makes you do things you're uncomfortable with. Vomit's my kryptonite. I mean I, I, I can handle pee and poop. Vomit is my kryptonite. And I don't know how many times my wife was at a Stevens ministry thing and my girls are both sick and I'm catching it in my hands and walking it down the hall and putting it in the toilet and I'm like, but that's what needed doing in the moment. And that's what men do. I mean it's what women do. But I don't like hearing men don't do this.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, I mean, obviously Jesus is the strongest man ever, ever, ever dresses himself as a servant, right? Washes disciples feet and says, I've set for you an example. He goes to a funeral of his friend and he puts his arm around somebody and he just cries. And I don't know who ever invented the phrase or decided withholding emotion somehow equals strength. That's dumb because Jesus is the strongest man and he's great. Philippians 2. The description of Jesus is that our attitude should be the same as his. And he just, he did whatever it took for us to be saved. He got off of his throne, he dressed himself as a servant, he became a man. He humbled himself to obedience, even to death on a cross. And this is what we have been called to do. So we are, men are created to be strong, just not for the sake of strength. You know, like a weightlifting contest in your house is irrelevant. The reason you lift a weight is because a weight might need to be lifted one day so that you can serve the people that you love.

[Ben Stewart]

And I would say all our power is derivative, you know, I mean if you look scripturally, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. You know, like I remember in college we'd always pray like, lord, just bless this day and help us to. And we're like, what are we asking him to do? You know, bless his food, may it nourish our body. You're like, was that at risk? Like what were we, what are we asking him to. We're not asking for great things. That means we're probably not attempting great things. You know, I remember Pastor Louis saying some version of something once of I want to lean so far out on faith that if God's not real, I'm falling on my face. But if he is real, you're going to see the power of God in a human life. And I'm like, that's the kind of Life I want. I don't want a life that you're like, that's about commensurate with his abilities. I want to live a life that they're like, it is not adding up, man. What are you doing here? And you just go, I believed what Ephesians says about the immeasurable greatness of his power at work in those who believe. And you're like, that's the access I want. His power is released for his purpose. So I want to say yes to his purpose. And he's like, then I'm bringing my power, and that's what I want to be a part of that derivative strength of Lord, you do something in me that I couldn't possibly do on my own.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. I think oftentimes in the church, the problem has been you've seen men misused strength. So then the church swung too far the other way and said, now, Christianity is about weakness, but a weak man is not an honorable man. He's just a useless man.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

You know? Well, it's not accurate. You think about Christ in the garden, sweat and blood. He knew what they were going to do to him. He knew that they were going to tear his back open. He knew that they were going to gouge those thorns into his head and nail his hands, and at any moment, he could have stood, stopped it, and he didn't. So there's nothing about that, right? Yeah, that's as. That's as bad as you get right there when you know they're going to do this and I'm going to take it.

[Michael Waddell]

Yep.

[Matt Carter]

You know, for me, when we got these questions in advance, Pastor, I read that, and I thought, all right, I'm going to give this some thought. You know, thinking about my marriage. For me, strength as a younger man meant to love and to love first in my marriage. My wife and I, 10, 15, about 15 years ago, went through a really difficult time. And I was reading Ephesians 5, that I was supposed to love my wife like Christ loved the church. And I'm like, all right, what does that mean for me to love my wife like Christ loved the church? And I came across the verse where it says, we love because he first loved us. And so men take the initiative to love even when they're not being loved. In return, we take the initiative to serve even when we're not serving. And my wife and I were going through this difficult time. I remember one night, it was a New Year's Eve, and Jeff, we had one of those doozy fights, you know, those once Every, every decade, kind of.

[Pastor Joby]

Knock down drag outs.

[Matt Carter]

That was, you know, one of those. And man, we were just at a horrible, horrible place. And I remember she went out with our friends. I stayed home. That's how bad it was. And I was at the end of my rope. And I remembered that verse.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

We love.

[Matt Carter]

Because he first loved us. And so I was just bawling and I prayed a prayer. It just kind of came out of me. I said, jesus, I need you to change me. I don't care if you change my wife. I need you to change me so that I can love her the way you've called me to love her. And I made a commitment that night to the Lord that I was going to pursue that woman's heart for the rest of my life no matter what she did in return. I made a commitment to the Lord that I was going to win her back. And so for me, strength was making the decision, no matter what I'm receiving out of my marriage or whatever else, I'm going to do what Jesus called me to do, which is to love.

[Pastor Joby]

Amen.

[Ben Stewart]

That makes me think of that. I forget the guy's name. It's like red moon or something. Courage is not the absence of fear. It's determining that something is greater than the fear.

[Matt Carter]

That's right. That's right.

[Ben Stewart]

It's worth fighting for.

[Michael Waddell]

I like that.

[Pastor Joby]

Timmy, I'd love to hear you talk about this. I mean, you're probably in the top three strongest people at the table.

[Ben Stewart]

Maybe top three is the top.

[Ali]

You're right. You're right up there.

[Pastor Joby]

I think I know what it's saying, maybe. No, I mean, honestly, I think, you know, people see you and strength is a word that would come to mind quickly when they hear the name Tim Tebow. And I just mean on the field, physically, all of those kinds of things. And so what does it mean for you? And a lot of your life has been around getting stronger, being strong. So what does it mean? What do you think?

[Tim Tebow]

One of the things that came to my mind was being willing to what Ben said, a willingness to do what you don't want to do. Because Ben is right. When we look at the word courage, it's not that you're not afraid. It means you do it anyways, even if you are afraid.

[Drew Parker]

Right.

[Tim Tebow]

And I think there's a reason why Jesus is telling the disciples the night before he goes to the cross to choose heart, take courage. He only uses that word seven times in the New Testament, four times, as in his earthly ministry. And it's one of the last things that he's saying to them. And it's because they just don't get it. A lot like me in my life, you know, at so many of the times. And at that time, they don't get it. For in me, you have peace. In the world, you will have trials and tribulation. But, Tharseo, take heart, choose courage. I have overcome the world. And what's crazy about it is it's in the present active imperative, second person plural, meaning, I'm not. This isn't going to be done for you. It's going to be done by you. I'm going, and I'm overcoming sin and death on the cross. You can choose courage. Like, so what are you gonna choose? So many times, and I do this, I still. All the time, I pray that God would give me courage. But I also look at it. I'm like, dang it, he's just telling me to look at the cross, you know, like, the cross is supposed to be where I find my courage. Like, I look back so that I can look forward. And I think, as men, to strive to be godly men, we have to get that courage from the cross and then look forward and say, okay, the things I don't want to do, I don't want to change. The things I don't want to do, I don't want to be sore. The places I don't want to go, I want to do it anyways. I'm sure my dad, you know, didn't want to go stand up and preach in the places where he thinks, man, you know, they could just kill me. Or they told me if I preach, they're going to kill me. And he did it anyways. I bet there is something in him that he wasn't like, oh, yippee, this is awesome. But, you know, it's worth it. It's worth it to live a life for Jesus is worth it. It's just. It's all worth it. And it's worth it to choose courage even if I don't want to do it. Like, do you mean days when you want to be a good athlete or a better athlete that you do something you don't want to do? You wake up, you don't want to wake up. You go train and you go a little bit harder and a little bit further and a little bit tougher with a little bit more determination, just so I could be a little bit better at this thing. And then when you think about it, it's just a stupid game and Yes, I know we love it, but it's literally taking a fake pigskin and putting inside a rectangle inside another rectangle. And you're like, I'm willing to suffer so much for this. Play with broken bones or all sorts of things, or give up time or all of this just to make a team or play a game. And you're like, for what? But yet we're so rarely willing to suffer for eternal things. We choose courage for y' all going up mountains and going to hike and hunt and do all this. And I get your point for it, because you got ministry with. But, like, think about all the other times for what to go have an adventure so you have a thrill and a memory that's not going to live for eternity. And we're willing to do that. I think one of the most disappointing things in my life is that my greatest form of suffering has been for a game. And if my life ends and my greatest form of suffering was to make a team or score a touchdown, I have missed the mark.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

But I hope I could say no. The first part of the days that God gave me, I suffered most for a game. But hopefully at the end of my life or in heaven, looking back, I could say, no, no, no. The greatest effort and focus and determination and suffering was for the cause of Christ. Because when we throw out the word passion, that's just a 12th century Latin word that means to suffer. But we really think about it. What have we been passionate for our lives not meaning. What do you say you're passionate about? What would the actions of your life show that you have suffered for? And is that thing worth it? I would look at that and say, man, I think trying to be someone that follows Jesus, man, I want to choose the things that aren't comfortable because I know it's worth it. And, man, maybe I get to heaven. And there would be a few things that I chose that were actually things of eternity. And I would be willing to endure. I would be really willing to run. You know, I love that it's all over scripture run. And when we really look at that, it means to advance speedily like an athlete, moving forward with full effort and a directed purpose. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna go for a run, and kind of meander or jog or. No, it's advance like an athlete with full effort and a directed purpose. That's eternity. It's a cause of Christ. It's what the calling that he has on our life. So stop looking around at everything we get to focus on the one who went before us, the author and perfecter of our faith. And now we get to run with endurance. And endurance, it guarantees suffering. It's. Anybody that's ever done an endurance workout, it sucks. It's horrible. Like, I've never met someone that's like, man, but I had the best time enduring that. Like, when we would have to run all the stadiums at Florida because we'd get in trouble. You know, we'd have to. You have to touch 90,000 steps. It's miserable. You know you're gonna puke. You know you're gonna throw up. You know it's gonna be miserable. But you do it because you've been asked to do it, and you do it because you want to be your best. Well, guess what? We have the commander in chief. King Jesus has given us a command. Are we gonna do it? And we also know that it's worth it. That's just what comes to mind for me when I think of.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, as you're saying that, I think Ali about biblical strength. Jesus uses the word meek, you know, like in the Beatitudes, blessed are the meek. And we all know this, but it doesn't mean weak. It means bit bridled horse. So it's just taking the strength that God has given you and turning over the reins to a different commander to say this strength in your direction. And if you know anything about a trained horse or a broken horse, they live longer, they do more, they run faster, they haul more. Everything increases in their life when they are not under their own command, but under the command of a loving master. And that is the picture of salvation that Jesus gives us. That. That doesn't mean that we're not strong. We've just said, God, this strength that you've given me, I want to put the reins of it back in your hands for you to direct it for your glory and not my own. And that's what biblical strength is.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Well, when we have the. The freedom to do whatever we want, it never ends well, right? Yeah, it never. We need to be under authority. And that's why I want God telling me what to do. Because when Jeff tells me what to do, it doesn't go well. Yeah, I need it. I hunger for it.

[Michael Waddell]

I.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Like, when I get up in the morning, I'm like, just teach me something this morning. Just something. Some little something.

[Ali]

Yeah, we've talked a lot about fear has come up quite a few times. So I'd love to talk about what are the things deep inside the souls of men that men are afraid of.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. I mentioned this earlier, but I think that the core fear is I don't.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Have what it takes being insignificant.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm gonna let my family down. I'm gonna let this church down. I'm not gonna be who God called me to be. I'm gonna. But it just comes down to that thing, like, do I have what it takes?

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Pastor Joby]

And honestly, part of the reason, Timmy, we get obsessed with all kind of different sports. It's like the most surface way to address it, you know? I mean, you can. I mean, we're in Jacksonville right now, goes eight miles in any direction, and there's seven dozen grown men out there trying to answer that fundamental question by hitting a ball, a little white ball. I mean, it really matters a lot. They're like, I have what it takes. I know I have what it takes. I mean, it really does. So you pour yourself into anything, Writing songs or lifting weight, whatever that thing is, being the best at the stock market, and none of that stuff will ever fully and finally satisfy that deep, deep question, do I have what it takes? And again, like we said, you'll never get to the true answer until you realize, no, I don't. But one of the things that men are yearning for is for other people in their life. Their wife is the biggest voice, the loudest voice to say, honey, you got what it's in Christ. You can be who he has put you on this planet to be. Oftentimes we talked about whether our dad spoke a blessing or a curse over us. Boy, that one. I think I heard Charles Stanley maybe say this, that it's like the first 18 years of your life, your brain is just on record. And then the rest of your life, you just hit replay, and you will be filtering through the things that you've heard for the rest of your life. But that. I mean, that's the core of it, is, am I who God intended for me to be?

[Matt Chandler]

And I think even in that space, like, this is run over by the grace train. Like, to watch the grace of God move in. So my. The kind of lie that what's on replay for me is that I'm useful but not necessarily lovable. Like, that's. That that'll play back the rest of my life. Now, I know the answer to that. Theologically, I know. But all of that stuff growing up was like, if I'm useful, I'm good. Not necessarily lovable, but I am useful. And. And so, like, what's fascinating to me is I think about before I even knew I was operating that way. Right. That's not prefrontal cortex. Stuff like that's deeper than that. I'm not even aware that I'm thinking that I'm driven, I'm grinding and God's blessing and God's working and he's not gonna leave me there. So it was like there was this double edged blade even in the brokenness of my life where God was like, by my grace, for your good, for my glory, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bless you even though you're operating out of this lie and I'm gonna snatch you out of the lie and, and show you. No, you, you are loved and you. And that was for me, I was like, oh my gosh, how many sermons have I preached to me? Like, how many of my thousands of sermons are just me talking to me, like trying to, to remind myself that this is true. And so that was like a mind blown kind of moment for me. Everybody's like, man, you love the gospel. And I was like, yeah, I think I'm still trying to get it in there. Dadgummit. So I love that. Even if, like, even if the fear is and you're hitting it, Joby, like, I just don't know if I'm enough. The good news of the gospel is, yeah, you're not. But, but here's enough for you in Christ. And, and I love how even in that moment of thinking I'm not enough, there's going to be some, there's going to be some touches of grace for you and some blessings of God in that and, and by his grace. Pull you out of it. Pull you out of it.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah, well, you know, and it's that significance, you know, am I, that's what we look for from a woman is to give us significance. It's, it's important for people to be worth something. Yeah.

[Michael Waddell]

And.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

That'S, that's the wonderful thing about following Jesus is he. He says, not only are you worth something, you're worth everything. On your worst day, you're worth everything to me. And the weird way it affects me, I walk out, I talk out loud a little bit, which is probably some kind of mental illness, but you talk out loud.

[Tim Tebow]

Most of us do.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Do you? No, I mean, when I'm by myself, but I will find myself like walking. And when I start talking to God, I say, I love you too. I don't say I love you. I said I love you too. Because he said it to me first.

[Michael Waddell]

That's good.

[Pastor Joby]

I love it.

[Tim Tebow]

It's awesome.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, Jeff, I heard.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

So I, like, be walking down the street and I'll see, like, a cool tree, and I go, man, you just made that just for my enjoyment. And I say out loud, I love you too. Thank you, dad.

[Matt Carter]

That's so good.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Wow.

[Michael Waddell]

I heard somebody tell me one time, it's all right if you talk out loud by yourself, but if you start.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Answering your own questions, I don't think I answer.

[Matt Chandler]

But.

[Michael Waddell]

My biggest fear used to be. And I say used to be, because I moved past it was the fear of losing everything. But then I got to thinking, well, what's everything? Is it a house, is it a car, place to hunt, you know, ability to turkey call, shoot a bow, whatever it is, you know? And then I got to thinking deeper on that. And in a weird way, I got to thinking, well, if a man's got what he needs, truly, you know, with the salvation and understands God's grace, you could lose everything and gain more. And that's what hit me. And I realized that, man, I got to shape this up better, because some of the things I could be chasing are not worth my effort as much of the things that. If I'm left with just this. And I've got a lot of friends that chase wealth hard. They have a lot of wealth. They have everything. But if that were to end tomorrow, I think to myself, well, where would they be? Would they be in a very tough, uncomfortable situation? In some cases, I think, well, would they be suicidal? Would they be depressed? Would they be all those things? But I had to. But before I could look at and think about where they would be, I had to face it for myself. That really, you know, now I think long as I got things buttoned up, regardless of where I've been, if I can stay on track and get the right guidance. Fear is something that. I mean, I guess it's a form of security that I've never had. When I think of it in those.

[Drew Parker]

Terms, I think a lot of men fear being exposed. You're not the husband you think you are or claim to be. You're not the dad you claim to be. You're not the friend you claim to be. And we fear people finding that out about us. And it wants us to dig and grow stronger. And there's some strength in it, in admitting those things. I'm not the husband that I need to be. I'm not the dad I need to be. And for a long time, I mean, I spent so many years running myself ragged on the road, thinking that.

[Pastor Joby]

I.

[Drew Parker]

Would excuse it for providing for my family. This is how I provide for my family. And I realized I wasn't providing them the one thing they needed, which was me, just to be present, because I was comfortable in that life and I was fearful of being exposed. If I just stay busy, everything will look glorious. And that was the lie that the enemy just came, Kept telling me over and over and over. And I feared those things for so long until the Lord really got my attention. And the Lord used my own pride to get my attention. I play a lot of shows, and I would explain, this is a song I wrote for so and so, and it did this and it got this award and all these things. And I. And I realized I was taking credit for this song that. That had done awesome things and things that I am proud of, But I was humbly bragging about them. And the Lord's like, man, you. I gave you the words for that song. I gave you the breath in your lungs to sing this song. Like, what are you doing? You would have nothing if it wasn't for the gift that I've given you. And the Lord used my pride in a moment of, look what I did to go, no, look what he did. And it was the fear of being exposed that, like, brought all that to the table and allowed me to really open my eyes to what the Lord was trying to do in my life.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And it's probably an identity thing. I think that's a hard thing for a lot of guys. I remember about 10 years ago, I was doing an interview, and the lady said to me, okay, you write books, you host shows, you do stand up, you paint, you draw. Which one are you? And I thought, well, that's a weird question. And I said to her, all the things you listed, those are things that I do. I said, but who I am is. I'm a child of God. I'm a husband, a father, a brother, a person of this community. And so through the course of my life, what I do may change many times. Hopefully who I am stays the same. But I think it's. That's a real struggle for. For men. And I think the world has done that. Like, it's okay to ask a little girl, what do you want to grow be when you grow up? And she can say, well, I want to be a mom. You never hear a little. You ask a little boy, what do you want to be when you grow up? Not one little boy is going to say, I want to be a dad. We're going to say a fireman or as my grandson was telling me last night, I really want to be a garbage man. And I'm like, well, go, buddy. You know, be a good one.

[Matt Chandler]

Be a good one.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

But the world has made that identity thing, I think, for men really hard because it's so much as put on what we do, what we do, not who we are. And my favorite Bible verse, and it must not be a good one because I've never heard anybody else say it was their favorite, but it's Galatians 1:10. And it's just, am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? And. And I just. Man, that's. I just run that filter through myself all the time. Whose approval are you seeking?

[Pastor Joby]

That's the one verse I have on my desk.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

No way. No, no, you don't.

[Pastor Joby]

I take it. Show it to you. Well, it's just because in my world, I real quick, kind of what Chandler was saying, like, I know theologically, God loves me, sent Jesus for me. I get all that. I mean, for sure. But this could be true for all of us, man. We perform, we get up in front of people, and real quick, our worth can be tied to how we did. And so the last thing while I'm writing my sermons and the last thing I see before I go pee, check my zipper, turn my mic on, and walk out on stage is, am I trying to win the approval of man or of God?

[Matt Chandler]

Wow.

[Pastor Joby]

And I just. Just as a reminder, man, just as cause.

[Tim Tebow]

And it's easy to even manipulate that in our minds and think, well, I'm doing it to win for people, for God.

[Michael Waddell]

Right.

[Tim Tebow]

And there's a difference.

[Matt Chandler]

Yeah, there is.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. One time Pastor Britt here said, I am not primarily a tool in the hand of God. I'm a child in God's family.

[Charles Martin]

Amen.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah, those are, of course, yeah, we're part of the army. We're all those things. But. But primarily, I'm his son.

[Charles Martin]

Amen.

[Pastor Joby]

Primarily. And I have kind of like you preaching. I feel like every sermon is just. To me, I'm glad people will show up and listen.

[Matt Chandler]

That helps to me talk out loud, bro.

[Pastor Joby]

It's like, I need this more than anybody I know right now. I've got to remind. And the fear of being exposed. And Chandler, I've heard you talk about this a lot. This is a part of the gift of confession. Because currently, because I got people in my life that know. I mean, they know me. So if somebody comes up, like, you know what I just heard, and I'm like, I can tell you eight other people that have heard it too, whatever it is, so go. What is it? And when the enemy says, who do you think you are? I just agree with him. I'm like, it's actually worse than you think. Cause all you can do is watch the film. I know what's going on here. And he still chose me to love me anyway. So what you got now, sucker? Like that, you know, so it's actually when you lean into what God saved you from, then you can really have more freedom. That expose me for what I've already been exposed. The cross is out at us all. Yeah, I'm a sinner that needed a savior and he chose to save me. Praise God.

[Charles Martin]

Ali, you've heard me say this. I would not necessarily consider myself a fearful person. That's not been a primary emotion. I have other emotions, but that's not been. A couple years ago, Christy and I bought a farm in Georgia. And it had been something we'd prayed about with the boys for a long time. Man, it was like this deep burning. I mean for 20 something years we prayed about being able to buy some. I have a picture of me at my grandparents house in Texas, out in west Texas, plowing in January just because I wanted to do something with dirt. So it was this thing, we buy this place three and a half years ago and. And it's the biggest, it's just a thing. I just was so excited. And Christine and I get the kids out there and I don't know, a couple weeks go by and we're putting up stands and food plots and I have my list of stuff that needs to get done and my kids are goofing off and playing it and they're actually having fun and I'm not. And I, I don't know, one evening at the fire pit and I don't even, I don't even like saying it. I just absolutely lost my poop with my wife and my kids. I did. I mean I just. And I thought I was right. That's the bad part. I lost my stuff and I thought I was right in losing my stuff. And everybody's looking at me and John T. Looks at me and says, dad, if you're going to be like that, we don't even want to be here. And I thought, oh no, I've just become that dad. Everybody grabs their bow and they go to the stand and I grab my bow and I go sit in the tree. And I realized I got up there, I didn't even have my release. I didn't Even want to be there. And the Lord just was like, really? Is that where we are now? I gave you this thing, and you're trying to control it. And I just sat up there and I was like, you're right. I am. I'm holding it like this, and I want to control it. And the reason I want to control it is because I'm afraid. And you hear the problem in my pronouns. I'm afraid I will do something to cause me to lose the thing. I've now made an idol. And so I came back to the fire pit, and all my kids are looking at the dirt, and they don't want to be around me. And I just gathered everybody, and I just went on a confession tour. And I said, look, I just want you to know one. I'm sorry, y'.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

All.

[Charles Martin]

I'm so out of line. I'm so wrong. I'm so sorry, but here's why your dad is afraid. And I just.

[Michael Waddell]

I don't have it all.

[Charles Martin]

I don't got this, and I'm sorry. And it was a sweet thing. That doesn't mean it's been, you know, puppy's breath and skittles ever since. And I've since made mistakes as well. But it was a thing that the Lord needed to expose my own idol to me. And the fear and the anger was a manifestation of my own inability to control the thing that I didn't have any business controlling it in the first place. He gave it to me. He can take it away. My job is just to be faithful. But it was a sweet thing that he did in the tree. And he's done a lot of sweet things in the tree with me. Just kind of flipping the mirror and saying, okay, you're afraid now. Let's figure out why. And the confession. The confession cut me free from the fear. And the moment I said that with my kids, it was as if somebody just reached, you know, the Lord just reached on my shoulders and just lifted that. And I'm grateful for that because I haven't, you know, Joel and Peter. Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered and saved. And he's faithful, and he. So in that confession, he did that.

[Michael Waddell]

Wow.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah.

[Ben Stewart]

Patrick Carnes is, you know, one of the leading voices in America on addiction, specifically sexual addiction. I remember reading one of his books and being surprised. He said, all addiction comes from feeling unloved and unlovable. You feel like you can't achieve it, so you numb the pain, try to destroy it, you know, and there's Often a co addiction with perfectionism. I'm going to achieve the worth of love through activity. And if I can't, I'm going to bury it or blast it out of existence in this sad and broken place and just realizing how dangerous that is. You know, you look at James 1, that's the fountainhead of sin in James. Don't be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good and perfect gift comes down from your father above. He's like, the lie that's going to launch all these sins is that you're not loved by God. He's not a good dad. And so for me, when I was working through different, like, addiction struggles, temptations, I remember a guy telling me once, he said, you are so hard on yourself. Like, you beat yourself up, but you've got some pretty soft boundaries against sin in your life. Like, you need to have some harder boundaries. Like, you know, the whole, like, delete some apps, get some accountability, whatever. And he's like, you're just hard in the wrong places, and you're soft in the wrong places. And he took me to Hebrews, you know, where it's talking about not growing weary, not getting discouraged. And he says, in your struggle against sin, you've not resisted to the point of shedding blood, which I love that in Hebrews. He was like, you're resisting sin. Like, you're not even bleeding. So it's just like, hey, you gotta get a lot harder externally.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Ben Stewart]

But then he's like, Cause don't have you forgotten? He calls you sons.

[Tim Tebow]

That's right.

[Ben Stewart]

And then he tells you five times, you're a son. He disciplines you because he loves. He loves you like his son. And he was like, you need to be so much kinder to your heart. You're his dad. You are loved.

[Tim Tebow]

You are loved.

[Ben Stewart]

You are. And so, so much of the temptations to hide, to not be a part of our calling, to bury our shame, comes from, I don't feel loved. And so if I can be kinder with myself, then I have the power to be harder with the externals and actually accomplish something.

[Matt Carter]

I had a really tangible moment where I got the love of God. You know, I'm wired very similar to you, Matt. Just. Man, does God really love me? And I know all the theology. I know God loves me, but I didn't feel it. And I'm one of these guys that, like, if I sin or I mess up, I can think, all right? There's a line that if I cross, God's going to be done with me. You know, Tim, and you just experienced this. I'd be interested if this resonates with you. But the moment that God literally transformed all of that was again at the birth of my first child. I'm holding this baby boy. He's now 25 years old. And I was holding him for the first time. And I remember feeling and experiencing a love that I didn't know was inside of me. I love this person I just met more than I could fathom. My father walks up as I'm holding my son. And I looked at my dad and I said, dad, I love him so much it hurts. And my dad said the greatest thing he ever said to me.

[Michael Waddell]

Me.

[Matt Carter]

My dad said, son, now you know how I feel about you.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Whoa.

[Matt Carter]

And I didn't think about it much at the time, but years later, I was thinking about man. Does. Does God really love me? And I remembered that moment, and I'm like, okay, if John Carter, my dad, loves me like that, and I love J.D. carter that way, then how much? And we're imperfect men.

[Michael Waddell]

Absolutely.

[Matt Carter]

Then how much more does a perfect heavenly Father love us no matter what? And so that's for anybody hearing this. If you think, man, I've failed so far that I'm disqualified to be a dad, to be a husband. Look, start with the foundation of knowing this. There's nothing you can do to keep God from loving you.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And you think, why didn't he just stop with Adam and Eve? I mean, he had created human beings. Why did he allow us to have kids? And I've always believed so. We had a tiny inkling of the way he feels about us. The last time I saw Timmy, we were. We were doing a. Some event. I don't know, some Christian event. But I didn't know he was expecting a baby. And he told me, yeah, three or four months ago, I guess. And I wrote it down and put it on my bathroom mirror. And every morning I'm praying for Tim's baby. And it dawned on me why is. Because as much as I admire Tim, I knew becoming a father was going to add dimensions to Tim Tebow that were just going to make him even richer.

[Pastor Joby]

No doubt.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And so when I saw him this morning, I'm like, all right, I've been praying for your baby every day. Did you have a baby? Is it a boy? Is it a girl? What did you have? But I say, becoming a father, my entire life clock reset. At that moment, I became totally responsible. You didn't have to tell me that. I had to provide. And Protect. Because, man, that just came alive in me. And I swear it's so. We have a tiny inkling. That's how he feels about us. Yeah.

[Matt Carter]

And so much more.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah, we.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

That we cannot fathom. That's right.

[Michael Waddell]

And think about that. It hits me, because I'm a father and he gave his only begotten son. Can you imagine saying how I love. Here you go.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yes. I don't love anybody like that.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah. I mean, it's.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

That's.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah, it's crazy. I can't imagine that.

[Ali]

Well, I'd love to close our time together with just a few of us sharing. Just some final encouragement for men out there. Maybe this conversation is the first time their eyes are opening and they want to stand firm and act like a man. Or maybe it's the man that has a lot of baggage in his life and he's ready to start acting like a man. Just some final encouragement for those listening and watching.

[Matt Chandler]

Man, I feel like I'm going to be a broken record for the rest of my life. One, I. I want to tell you, whoever you are, whatever your background is, you can do this. Like, God is not asking you to do something that he won't empower you to do. The second thing, and this is one of my favorite things about Jesus. There is nothing in your life that Jesus wants distance from. Like, there's just nothing. Especially if you think it's gross or nasty or you hope nobody ever finds out. Like. Like, Jesus doesn't want any distance from that. Jesus is constantly. The whole story of the Bible is God shrinking the distance between you and him. God with us. Those three words, you could condense the whole Bible down there. And so I would hate for you to keep your distance from the one that's coming to give you life, Life, life, life to the full. The kind of life you actually want and desire. And so I'm saying this because I know how the voice works, and I know you've been watching this for. I don't. It's been 12 hours or something. What day is it? Like, I know you've made it here to the end, and I know there's a little voice in the back of your head that's letting you know that this is true for almost every man but you. And I want to take that from you right now. And I joke often that, like, hardly anybody in the Bible could get hired at the Village. Like, they're just not going to get through our HR background check. You know, they're murderers and liars, and the Beauty of the gospel is that God pulls from the fringes of darkness those who become his brightest lights. And so, brother, if you're swimming in a sea of crap, I want to be a voice that tells you, man, you're God's kind of guy. Like, you're right. Like God loves that spot where you are because he wants to snatch you out and quote David in Psalm 40, wash the muck and the mire off of you and put a new song in your mouth. So there's nothing that God wants distance from. Nothing, Jesus, not in your past, not in your present, not some future screw up which hope you've heard today is coming for you, that Jesus wants distance from and that you can do this. This isn't for other men. This is for you. To be the kind of man that I think actually you want to be just feels elusive to you and you can't figure out why the hell that is. Jesus, as lord of your life, helps you become the kind of man that you feel in your guts you want to be and that you're hoping one day you will be and then I'll.

[Michael Waddell]

Wow, Amen to that. Yeah, for sure.

[Matt Carter]

I'll do something super practical. The book I had the privilege of writing the forward to it and so I thought, man, I better read this book if I'm going to write the for it. I actually read your book, Pastor Job. He's really good. I hope everybody reads it. And one of the things I said in the four is like, look, man, don't pick this book up, read a couple chapters, stick it in the nightstand, like finish it. But when you read it, one of the things that's going to happen is that you're going to get through it and you're going to give some practical tips on how to be a good father, a good husband, a man of God. But I want to give one encouragement. I had a really interesting thing, Pastor Joby happened the other day. The other day, it was last summer. But you know, by the grace of God, all three of my children that are grown adult kids walk with the Lord and that's. That doesn't always happen. Has a lot more to do probably with their mother than me. But great kids, amazing members of society and all three of them are adults that love Jesus. And so last summer we were going on our last vacation together as a family before we brought other people that married them into the equation. And it was our last night of our last vacation together just as a family unit. And we were sitting at the table together around On a beach. And I asked them, my wife and I asked him, like, what did we do as parents that helped contribute you three being amazing? And we just let them talk. And one of the. One of the things that all three of them said about me were like, dad, you were just there. You showed up. You were present. And so, man, I just want to encourage any dad out there. You're hearing this, you're convicted. Like, I want to change, man. Step number one, give your heart to Jesus. He'll give you the power. Step number two, just show up and you're going to accomplish more than you can imagine.

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah, for sure.

[Drew Parker]

I'm living proof that you don't have to abandon your story. You just have to surrender it to the Lord.

[Matt Chandler]

That's a good word.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And.

[Drew Parker]

The more I've gone through life, I've seen a few stages of life, hopefully not all of them, but I've been on a few literal stages, too.

[Matt Chandler]

But.

[Drew Parker]

But I realized that for so long, I chased fame, success, and money through music. And I realized that my wife and my daughters didn't need a famous dad. They needed a faithful one. And the longer that I more I walk with Jesus, the more I realize that manhood is not about my platform, that I thought was my purpose. For so long, I thought it was my purpose. I thought that's why I existed, was for this platform. And I realized that I wasn't. I was created. I was. I'm so much more than that. And I realize manhood is not for your platform, a paycheck, or power. But the more. The closer that I more I walk with Jesus, that I just realize it's just about leading my family and picking up my cross every day to be a better version of who I am for them. And hopefully with that, I just want to encourage guys that are in their early 30s who are, like, struggling the way that I struggle every day for one, surround yourself with men who will make you a better man. Ask questions, be honest, be truthful. That was the hardest thing for me, is to set my pride aside and just be honest with where I was at in life. And now I'm just trying to become somebody who can. Who's been through that, and just point others to Jesus.

[Michael Waddell]

Amen.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah, I would say don't shame the small steps. Something that you say, Joby, that I love, is, what's your next step of obedience? And I think you could listen to something like this and go, some of these guys are way down. I don't even know how to get to that spot you go. Don't worry about that. Just what's the next step? And don't shame that step. Celebrate it. I think of myself physically when I went through a lot of back issues, I didn't know what to do. I gained a lot of weight. I was in really an unhealthy place and I felt a lot of shame around it. And workouts didn't look great. It looked like rehab with a bunch of 70 plus year old ladies. And it was Edith and Opal and Ben doing these hip thrusts that are humiliating. No one's posting this on Instagram. Instagram.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Oh, Edith was.

[Ben Stewart]

But Facebook.

[Matt Chandler]

Edith's on Facebook. Shan on the gram. She's on Facebook.

[Ben Stewart]

But I just was like, but I want to get better. And if this is what you got to do. I couldn't do a single pull up, but I'll try something. And I just realized I'm not going to shame myself that these steps are small. I'm going to celebrate that they're small steps in a good direction. And so I would encourage you with that. And then I would also just say, don't run alone. You know, lone rangers are dead rangers. So find some friends that you can say, hey, my next step is I'm going to get this book. Will you read it with me? Text that to five guys. Maybe you get one. Hey, I want to show up at church this Sunday. Will you ask me if I did? I know that sounds silly, but I know I'll talk myself out of it Saturday night. Just ask me if I went. Just some little small step. You can celebrate and then accrue them over time. But do it with a pack. Run with a crew.

[Matt Carter]

That's good.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Yeah. Do. Do a small group. I've had different small group find guys to do life with in my group. We've celebrated births and buried parents together. We've done life. That's.

[Michael Waddell]

That's really important, I think too is, you know, for me. I remember and it hit me because I didn't think much about it until I texted Jeff for the first time. I said, hey, Jeff, we're going to be down, you know, with brother Joby. And it hit me. And immediately it was almost like a. I felt like the devil hit me because I started feeling insecure because I'm thinking, I bet Jeff is thinking, what's old Waddell doing down there? You know, and then it hit me even more. I'm thinking, you know, and I got to thinking about coming here and the men, you men that were on the Panel, I was thinking, well, there's a selfish part of me. I need this more than anything I could give. And then that's kind of what hit me in my heart, is to think, because I'm thinking of my past, I'm already trying to look at my past, of things that I've sat down and begged to be forgiven for. And I thought to myself, it's like, well, that's the beauty of all this. It's like none of us are truly worthy. But to have an opportunity to sit down and have a panel and talk about the love of Christ and what he can do, and I can still look back and see scars.

[Matt Carter]

And.

[Michael Waddell]

And I know I'm going to have other scars because obviously perfection doesn't exist. And so for me, I think I would tell any man, you can be used. Don't let your insecurities and look at what you think is worth define what you could do. And for me, obviously, it's those convictions that make you realize that, wow, okay, I did screw up, but at least I'm getting this conviction that I am reminded. Man, I shouldn't have told that joke. I probably shouldn't have acted that way. I got a little out of hand over here. And at the end of the day, like you were talking about, for sure, you know, just being there and the people that matter the most. And at the end of it, the salvation and putting that armor of God on, and sometimes it gets tough, man. Sometimes it gets a little hard, gets to move around in it, and you'll catch yourself. Oh, I don't need the breastplate. I'm going to put that sucker off. I can get up the mountain. I don't need this breastplate at this party because I don't want to be judged by it. It's shining a little bright, you know, And I've learned that. I don't know, we all have a place and we all have a story to tell, and our stories are all in the glory. And like, he was talking about, he pulled from the fringes right there on the edge. You know, I read a lot, and looking at the Pharisees, he didn't use the Pharisees near it the same way he used some of these other people that you would have thought. And the Pharisees was bothered by, like, what. What are you doing? You know, this guy was a tax collector, he was a murderer, he was adulterer, he was all these things. And so for me, I'm just very encouraged that we have opportunities to speak about it. And you See all these different stories and areas that we've all come from and where we at now and the salvation, no matter what the world dishes it out. You know, I heard Kirk Cameron was talking the other day. Hey, man, you know, you wrote it in your book. And I read it, and it hit me hard. It's like we're already fighting from a place of victory, so we really don't have anything to be afraid of. And so for me, all hits true.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

And when you texted me the other night, I just sat back and smiled and I went, yeah, God, you're just doing your thing, you know, I mean, I'm not to judge how fast you come to the dance.

[Matt Chandler]

Right.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

But for any guy listening, and this is what the deceiver does, is he whispers that in your ear, you're not worthy. You're not worthy. And I'm a big, big picture guy, mental image guy. I think a lot of writers are, and I just think as the devil's accusing us like that, I picture a courtroom, and every time he reads something out, Jesus, as the intercessor for us, stands up and holds up that hand with a hole in it, he goes, I've already paid for that.

[Michael Waddell]

Yes, that's right.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

What about with that? I've already paid for that.

[Tim Tebow]

I got it.

[Michael Waddell]

Wow.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

I'm. I'm not your judge. I'm your friend. I love you. Right.

[Tim Tebow]

And then on top of that is he doesn't make us feel guilty for it.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

No.

[Michael Waddell]

Correct.

[Tim Tebow]

Which is crazy, right? It really.

[Jeff Foxworthy]

Because that's what we would do.

[Pastor Joby]

That's right.

[Tim Tebow]

It's like, no, I paid for that.

[Matt Chandler]

So remember, just FYI, you.

[Tim Tebow]

Yeah, you like. And that's. Honestly, I think most days I still would. I really can't, like, comprehend that, but I'd first just want to say just, thanks for doing this, Joby. That's great.

[Michael Waddell]

Yeah.

[Tim Tebow]

And for the impact in Jacksonville.

[Ben Stewart]

Yeah.

[Michael Waddell]

Amen.

[Pastor Joby]

Thanks, bro.

[Michael Waddell]

All right, let's all go turkey hunting at Jeff's.

[Tim Tebow]

Because we need this impact in Jacksonville.

[Michael Waddell]

Amen.

[Tim Tebow]

And what 1122 is doing in Jacksonville is cool. I would say the other night, when Demi was giving birth, there was. I don't know, there's a good amount of nurses and doctors in the room, and I would say, like, 90% of them were 1120. And it was awesome. And it was just. It was like praise and worship the whole time, and it was cool. So just.

[Matt Carter]

That's great until you're getting a vasectomy.

[Tim Tebow]

And so it's just God's use in 1122. And we're grateful for it.

[Pastor Joby]

Thanks, brother.

[Ali]

Well, as the female representative here, not that I can represent all women everywhere, but it is an honor to see and hear men want to get in the fight, particularly for other men. And. And there is nothing more fun than being able to watch the men in my life embrace the things that we've talked about today. And Pastor Joby's been my pastor since high school. And watching the impact that you've created amongst men and women and being able to confidently say, when men flourish, everyone flourishes. And this group of men is calling men to something higher because it's worth it. And so it's an honor to sit with you all tonight. I just thank you for your time and your authenticity and Pastor Joby, for your heart in this book, your heart for men and your heart for humanity to call them to something higher. So would you close us in prayer as we close out our conversation?

[Pastor Joby]

Yeah. One more before that. If you have this desire to be a better man, that's cause God put that in you. But you'll never be able to stand firm and act like men until you bend your knee to Jesus. And the Bible says that this is love. Not that we first love God, but he first loved us and sent his son as the propitiation for our sin. That word propitiation means a payment that satisfies, which means that if you're in Christ, he is not dissatisfied in you because his full satisfaction was met in the person and work of Christ. And I have to remind myself of this all the time. When Jesus, he's 30 years old, he walks out into the Jordan to get baptized, the heavens open up, and God the Father says out loud, behold my son, in whom I am well pleased. And at this point, Jesus has yet to do any ministry. He hadn't preached a sermon, hadn't done a miracle, definitely hadn't died for our sins. And before he did anything, God placed his favor, his approval on him. And so if you are in Christ, God's approval is on you. And his divine power has given you everything you need to be the man that God has called you to be. Let's pray. Our good and gracious heavenly Father, God, we love you because you first loved us. God, may we simply be the men that you have called us to be. Not because we have it in us, but we have you in us. And in you, all things are possible. Possible. We pray it in Jesus name. Amen.